Survivor Global: 50 Post Mortem

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[00:00:37] Hello everyone and welcome to RHAP's coverage of Survivor 50 for Survivor Global. I'm your host Shannon Gus, stopping in here that the season is over, got in right in time when the season was done, to do a bit of a post-mortem on this season. The last time we checked in on Survivor Global was about a month ago. We've had four episodes since then, a lot has happened. Like last time we were here, Mr. Beast had not even graced our Survivor screens and now we have a winner. So a lot has happened and to talk about it with me again, I have Chappelle. Chappelle, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:08] As much as I love talking to you, I really love talking about Survivor as well. And so any chance I get to talk about Survivor, even if it's for Survivor 50 and other seasons, I'm down. I'm down and like, I'm not low on Survivor 50. I have thoughts. I was just saying like, I'll just put it like that, but I'm definitely interested to hear yours. Yeah, because last time we were here, the question was, is 50 bad? Right. Right.

[00:01:36] And now that we're out of it, where do we land? Where do you land? You land that it's good? Good. Good is a struggle. Good is really a struggle. It is. It is because it's like, OK, we have 50 seasons to choose from. Is it in the top 25 seasons of all time? I think I think I could at least estimate it to be at 25. Really? Yeah, maybe 20. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I wouldn't quibble if somebody said it's number 25.

[00:02:05] Now, once we get to 24, you know, I need to see your jet, your data. You know, I need to see what are the moments? Who are the characters? Who are the people? What stood out to you that made this season so great? This season definitely had highs. But I think it was missing just like the exclamation point on the season. I think the beware advantage with Mr. Beast and all that kind of stuff like that's that's a thing that happened. But it happens a little bit into the season, like, you know, it's a couple of episodes ago. It doesn't feel like a climactic moment in the season.

[00:02:33] It felt like we were building to something else that we just didn't quite get. And so for me, I would love to see what the rankings are for most people. But I would say top half if I had to guess. What about you? It's funny that we wouldn't put it in the middle there because I think it might kind of get there for some people. Maybe I think maybe a bit lower for me, but I think if it's getting to that middle range, it's because it was so good and so bad. It was never mid. Like, I think that's the thing. And then it estimates out to that middle range.

[00:03:02] I mean, I do think it is the second best Survivor season I've watched this year of the two that I've seen, which is sad because that was like a mid tier Australian Survivor season, which no one expected anything from. And I think it was better than like this big landmark 50 season. And I think that's what's so disappointing is like 50 needs to be better than mid. You know what I mean? It's like the missed opportunity season because so much was great. Like when it was hitting, it was so good and you would see how amazing it could be. And especially because a lot of that stuff came early.

[00:03:30] It was like, this could be one of the best seasons ever if they just did nothing. Like if production did nothing and maybe had a slightly more even cast, then the stars that they did cast and the storytelling that they did have and some of these incredible highs that we got and some of the legacy building that they did and the montages and kind of looking back at this history could have made it one of the best seasons ever. But they kept getting in their own way. So for me, it's like you see what you can have. And then it's disappointing might be the word because of what it could have been.

[00:03:59] That doesn't mean that we didn't get these extreme highs. I mean, the last few weeks alone, Devin saying, you know, you're closer to heaven. You can see the Fijian stars. And then looking up before he gets voted out. I cried. Ozzy talking to Devin's about his relationship with his father on the show. And Devin's talking about that as a father, obviously, like really, really made sense for me and really affected me. And then he goes home with an idol the same way in that episode. Like he's evolved so much. We see that.

[00:04:24] And he's still the same person, like beautiful storytelling, better storytelling than we're going to get in many other seasons. We're not as invested. But then episodes that were just like a chore, like a pain, because you would just watch these twists just suffocate some players that you often really cared about. So, yeah, it's a very hard one to define because it's so all over the spectrum. Yeah. I mean, I know you said there are no mid episodes, but, you know, it's funny that we're talking about this this week.

[00:04:53] I say the finale is the mid episode. I think it just. See, and I don't think it was bad. It just didn't give it didn't have a it didn't have any punch to it. You know, like I'm very happy with the winner. She did a great job. I'm sure we'll talk about all of that and more. But, you know, for the finale episode, you have, you know, kind of like almost like a like, you know, a coronation for for Aubrey, which is great. But at the same time, we also have this live reunion, which is a nothing burger.

[00:05:22] And I'm talking about nothing. They got they mined nothing from it. I wouldn't say it was an awful lot of reunion because we definitely got one extremely funny, iconic moment that we'll always talk about for the end of time. But aside from that, like it just felt like a little ho hum, you know, and, you know, that's not that side is not particularly production's fault. I mean, the reunion thing is definitely production's fault. But, you know, the the last three or four, you know, boots or whatever that we got in this last episode.

[00:05:49] So to me, it just was a little bit more of the same, you know, like when the challenge do the fire making and then, you know, go to the end and we get a. Yeah. A balanced looking final tribal council. But I didn't it didn't have a moment. I think that's what I was. I'm going to push back and that's not production's fault. Like, I do believe that it's production's fault because the the setup of the end game makes these finales more predictable than they are unpredictable, because what's going to happen at the final five? These people are locked into a final three. Then there's fire at four.

[00:06:18] There are there's intrigue that can happen. We just saw this in Australian Survivor at a five or a four or a three when we have a final two or we have a final three. They're locked in. And so you're going to a final five where all someone can do is save themselves with immunity because we have our majority and it actually made a lot of sense for Rizzo, Jonathan and Joe all to go to the end together like they were lined up in that way. So why should anything happen at five? And then like the big moment is that Aubrey is going to win that immunity at four.

[00:06:45] But I think the way, you know, they were kind of, I think, hamstrung with the edit. Like it was really clear that Aubrey had this winner edit. Like, I think that I could have predicted. The entire finale down to the jury votes. Yeah. And I couldn't have predicted that in Australian Survivor this year. You know what I mean? So I think like it's the formatting. It's parts of what I don't even really blame them for the edit, what the edit had to be. And another thing I will say that I will blame production for because I just said on Australian Survivor, like sometimes, you know, the lesser players get to the end and let's just survive and we have to deal with it.

[00:07:13] And we don't want them to force these mechanisms in to, you know, not have that. We have to just accept that sometimes it's not the people you want at the end. And in this season, I will say, firstly, they do try to force those mechanisms so that doesn't happen. And it does. But also this one is actually their fault because we see these in these uneven returning seasons. The people you kind of don't expect, you can expect, will all team up together to be, you know, at the end because they all know they have to go with each other.

[00:07:40] And I think we've seen that in multiple returning seasons, even across franchises. And Australian Survivor was another example of that by David. So I actually think that like production for all that US production tries to do to stop these lackluster end games, like they actually did the one thing that would create it in a returning season, which was not having like a unified theme and having a bit of an uneven cast where obviously like, you know, some of the quote unquote bottom feeders like will kind of go to the end together. So, yeah, I mean, I kind of do blame production for the fact that this happens.

[00:08:10] And I think that if you look back at like some old finales in the, you know, like a lot of them, like they kind of spoke for themselves recently. And I think that that's production's fault. Yeah, the casting definitely is their fault. But, you know, the fire making challenge isn't their fault. That was in the hands of the fans. No, it wasn't. Please stop. It was in the hands of the fans. The fans voted 60% of the fans said this is what we want. 60, 60%, more than half of the fans said this. And so who would they be to give us something that more than half of the fans don't want?

[00:08:40] They gave us the fire making challenge. It was exactly what we thought it would be. Like you said, some of the the smaller players, you know, as far as like their their legacy. And their games are the ones who are put into this fire to go ahead and lose to this other person who is who has won her way to the end in a very impressive matter, by the way. But yeah, I think that it just didn't have the oomph to it. And I think you're right. It is the edit.

[00:09:04] I think if you're paying attention and you know, Sari is not going to win because that makes sense, then you have automatically start to look at who are the alternative winners. And for me, it was always Aubrey. You know, like if if Ozzy wasn't going to make it to the end with Sari and lose to Sari, then somehow Aubrey was going to be the one to come out of this. I'm very happy for Aubrey. But I do think that with the way the show was edited, it doesn't really show what's Rizzo's endgame once he turns on Ozzy and Sari.

[00:09:32] What you know, we find that out in this episode, basically that. Oh, yeah. Or in this exit press. Oh, we had I had a final three with Joe and Jonathan. You could have told us that weeks ago and then we would be watching Rizzo try to navigate to that final three. Same thing with Jonathan. You know, if Jonathan's goal was to get there with Joe and Rizzo, it makes sense for him to target Ozzy, to target Sari in that order, to target, you know, target Tiffany and say, oh, no, this is the three that I need to have. But they don't really give him his point of view. We really get the Sari point of view until Sari is gone.

[00:10:01] And then it becomes the Aubrey point of view. And to me, that's kind of the difference. And that's why it was to me very obvious that Aubrey had a really good shot at winning this. Jeff famously says there is no such thing as a winner at it. But yeah, he's wrong. I don't know. You know, I'm not shocked that Jeff doesn't understand his show. But to me, and anybody else who's paying attention, that Aubrey had a story throughout from the very beginning. And we tracked her, you know, and her trajectory all the way through. And so it made sense.

[00:10:30] It just it didn't have a lot of impact because it wasn't like a shocker. It wasn't that Aubrey it did. It wasn't painted like Aubrey overcame the odds to get there. And she really did, you know, with this alliance of three people against her. It really should have felt like the last couple of weeks is like we're all after Aubrey. We're all after Aubrey. We're all after Aubrey. And instead, it felt like we can go after Tiffany this time. OK, now we can go after Aubrey. And then it's like, oh, well, Aubrey won. So now she wins the game. So, yeah, I think there's a little bit to be desired in the edit.

[00:10:59] And that is definitely part of the reason why I would say about half. Yeah, well, the thing is that they had to lie to us in the edit. Like it was given to us as Aubrey's agency in the endgame. And what we kind of found out in this finale and through Exopress, as you're saying, is that that wasn't the case. Like there was this final three of guys who all knew their best shot was against each other. Like they were so it was so optimal to all go together. Like it was such a mutual interest. So they were doing that. And it was given to us as Aubrey's point of view. Now, that's not actually true.

[00:11:27] Like as we now see, Aubrey was put in a position where she had to win that challenge, which was unlikely. You know, she was up against these challenge beats. She probably wasn't going to win fire. Like it was a do or die challenge for her. Like getting into that position wasn't really her agency because it didn't put her in the best spot. It put these three guys in the best spot. But then something comes up and like upends it. And I think Rob, when talking to Rizzo, even compared it to him, Matteo and Butch with Jenna coming through in the Amazon. And I thought that was quite an apt comparison. But it's given to us so much as Aubrey.

[00:11:56] And I guess if you are like, again, someone who can not even read the edit, like you don't have to be super literate in the edit to see that they are giving her things that aren't necessarily happening. And we can talk through kind of all of the credit that she was getting there because the show, and I don't really blame the show for this. The show is worried about fans being mad at the winner. And I do, I don't really blame the show because we see also with like female winners as well, or like complicated winner stories to tell. The fans do get mad and they're trying to make that not happen.

[00:12:26] Australian Survivor might do that even more than the US does, where it's like, it doesn't, they, the fans. And you actually probably have to just like probably blame the average fan. The average fan who should be like, oh, I, I don't know. I feel that Aubrey's winning. Like that's interesting. Or, okay. Like she wasn't necessarily, she didn't necessarily play a great game and then just like move on with it or kind of examine that. Like that to me is what makes Survivor so interesting. The quote unquote best player.

[00:12:53] And that in itself is a loaded term, but doesn't, they don't always win. If we were all just kind of okay with that, Data could kind of just tell the story as it was happening. This is a very hard story to tell. Again, Aubrey was the right threat at the right time. Pretty much like right in the middle under, sorry, Devon, Tiffany, but over the three guys. She wins one key challenge because she bought some motion on Etsy, which was great. And that's why she wins the game. That's a really, and a lot of it's on legacy. So that's a really tough story to tell.

[00:13:19] If they could just accurately tell that story and trust the fans to be like, interesting, let's analyze that as we are about to do. Then they might do that. But I think the show gets scared as has happened, even with the over the top edit that people will be like, well, why didn't Jonathan win? And why, you know, and instead of just like embracing and even enjoying that dialogue, they're angry. They're scared. People will be like, I'm never watching the show again. So they overdo the edit and then it like takes away from it. But I don't blame them for that, especially when it is a female winner, because these winners can get discredited enough.

[00:13:47] And people, I guess, like aren't really primed to have these conversations and enjoy these conversations. So they feel it has to be neater than it has to. Whereas for me, like the complexity is like almost like the best part of the show. Like it's a very layered complex show. And that's why we can have these discussions. And I think that's like part of the fun. Yeah. I mean, I think it's both things at the same time. I think it's the alliance of three. These guys know they need to go to the end with each other. And Aubrey knows I need to go with these two guys. You know, she does not need to sit next to these three guys. Yeah, she needs to. Yeah. So it's both of those things happening at the same time. Right.

[00:14:17] So Aubrey is like, yes, I need to get rid of three. Yes, I need to get rid of Ozzy. Yes, I need to get rid of Tiffany. Yes, I need to basically be sitting next to these three, these two people, these three people. I need to be in a three on one situation and win my way to the end. You know, sometimes that's just the situation you're in. I need to win a key challenge or I will lose the game. And that's where she was. And that's kind of what we could have got from Aubrey's edit. But we didn't. We got like almost like like Aubrey kind of like ducking and dodging her way to the end when it was really just the pecking order. Right. She just wasn't next up.

[00:14:46] Now, she did a really good job of getting low on the pecking order by getting rid of that idol that, you know, was so controversial in the moment. That was such a good move for her to burn that idol because it did take all the like all the target off of her to where she could go back under the radar and like let these other bigger names go out before her. If we're talking about legacy, there's a reason why Ozzy and Sari have to go before her. You know, Rick Devins, even he doesn't have the legacy that Ozzy, I mean, Aubrey has. But in this season, he did.

[00:15:14] You know, the beware beast, whatever flipping. People have been calling it beast wear. How could we not? I don't think people are not saying that. People are not saying that. I'm not saying it either. I'm not going to do it. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. No, please. I'll try one time. I'll try one time. The beware moment happened. You're right. I kind of like it. So, yeah, the beware moment happens, too. And so that raises Rick's profile. So she is able to kind of go down the pecking order. But those two stories are not like completely separate from each other. Right.

[00:15:44] Aubrey story is one thing. Jonathan and Rizzo's and Joe's story is the other thing. They just really didn't show that story. They never really show what Jonathan was thinking as far as like my combination of who I can beat at the end. Same thing with Joe, if he even was thinking along those lines. And then with Rizzo, we were seeing Rizzo be like, now Tiffany has to go because she's the biggest threat. Now Aubrey has to go because she's the biggest threat. But we never heard Rizzo say, what am I going to do with Ozzy and Seri? You know, how am I going to win if I'm with the next with them two?

[00:16:10] I think that if it's a less savvy player or a player that we know is like not a super fan, then we're like, oh, yeah, that person is getting dragged to the end with those two people and they're just going to go to the slaughter. But Rizzo is not that guy. So we have to know that Rizzo had a plan or at least felt like I'm not going to sit by Seri and Ozzy at the end because he knows he would lose. There are some people who are fine losing to Seri in the final three. It looks like Tiffany would have been one of those people. It looks like Ozzy would have been one of those people. Lisa would have been one of those people in Australian Survivor vs. The World. I would be one of those people in any given day.

[00:16:40] It's me. It's me. Sign me up. But Rizzo is not that guy. And the show never showed that, you know, and so he never has to make that move. He never has to contemplate it. Anybody who knows him or has watched him play has to know he was probably thinking that and we just don't get it. So about the edit is it's a little wonky, but I think you're right. It highlights Aubrey in a way that I think Aubrey as a player, as a legacy player and

[00:17:08] as a legend of Survivor now officially. And Aubrey to me has probably been a legend of Survivor, but this I think solidifies it and the show really celebrated her in the way they presented her win. Yeah. Well, I think the thing with Rizzo, like I'm really high on Rizzo and we'll talk about it. It was really crystallizing for me, especially in the finale. Like we went to the finale with my deal or no deal board and Rizzo was by far the highest case. The week before had been terrible for the board, Chappelle. Terrible for the board. Not a good deal or no deal day for me when Devins and Sari were taken off the board.

[00:17:38] But Rizzo, highest case for sure. And it was crystallizing for me through the finale. What a solid game I think he played and we'll definitely talk through it. But the thing is, if they build that up and they give a lot of the agency to Rizzo, they have to take some from Aubrey. And again, they don't want to do that for the Rizzo discussed. Then you look at the fact that they also probably buried Tiffany a lot. And I think Tiffany was a lot of fun in this season. I mean, they buried her a lot early because she was such a fun character. Because like, look at their boot order. Like, again, this is why I can't really blame them. They're like, because of the uneven cast.

[00:18:06] Like they have in a row, Ozzy, then into Devins. No, was it? Was it? Ozzy? Yeah. Then, then. Don't get me lying. It was. I've done too many. It was. What was the order? It was. It was Oz. It was Emily and Ozzy. And then the episode in between that was. Why can't I remember this? The boot order of the season. Listen, we both are professionals. And neither one of us is coming up with anything. I just. No, it was. It was. It was Stephanie.

[00:18:36] I'm right. It was Stephanie. Okay. I know. Okay. Hombre. But I don't. Stephanie was. The boot order is Emily. Then it was Devins. Ozzy. Devins. Sari. Tiffany. Right. Was there an episode between that? No, it was just that it was Devins in between Ozzy and Sari. So Ozzy, Devins, Sari. Tiffany, if she's built up to be kind of the threat that we know she was and the fun character, if she's built up even more. Rizzo as this like person who I think actually did have a lot of agency. That's like. And then you're left with people that, you know, people might not be happy with.

[00:19:05] Although I think that obviously Jonathan has his fans. If Joe has his fans. Aubrey has her fans. So like everyone has their fans. But I still do think that people are like, wow, that deal or no deal board is looking really, really painful in a row. Did we just get the boot order on the podcast? But moving on. I have a child. Yeah. So I do think that it's not the edit's fault as much as they're like, what are we going to do about this? Because again, they know that the fan's going to be angry at that. I do think that Rizzo played a really great game. I'd love to talk about it because could Rizzo have won?

[00:19:34] Because I went into the finale thinking like, poor Rizzo, like he's always drawing dead just kind of based on who he is. And like part of that must be his fault because I think I saw a thing that he's older than Sam Phelan. Rizzo comes across like he's a minor. Like I, I, it's his youthfulness. It's his bravado. The last thing these people see, the only thing that people know about Rizzo when they walk onto that beach is that they saw that one trailer that said R-I-Z-G-O-D, Rizzo baby, they haven't seen him in 49. They were so anti 49 in general.

[00:20:03] And then he comes in and I think he played like a really strong game. And I don't know that I think he was drawing dead. Do you think there's a chance that Rizzo could have won this game? Absolutely. I think I will say this. I think I even put it on blue sky. I think he was once emotion away from winning the game. And I agree with you. Is that crazy? He's aligned with Sari and Ozzy, but he's going to lose to both of them.

[00:20:33] So either way, he needs to get rid of them. And he did. He was able to get rid of those two people and align himself with two people with much lower win equity. Now, the question is, you know, can he beat Jonathan? I think it's a game of inches, but it is possible. You know, I don't think Jonathan is like the first, like a front runner in the, between the two of them. I really do think it's like a, you know, 49 51 split on there as far as like who has the most, because it'll also take him winning some motion and cutting Aubrey or like, or,

[00:21:02] you know, or sending somebody into fire to cut Aubrey. That would be such a big exclamation point on his game. Right. So assuming he makes it to that point, I think he needs to win some motion. I think, I don't know that I think he needs to win some motion. I think he needs to win some motion or he doesn't make it because he's not going to win fire. No, no, no. But he doesn't matter because at the end of the day, that's the whole point. It's like, if any of those three guys win some motion, see he, the meal ticket is to be with Joe and Jonathan. They're two fairly beatable people at the end. They're two fire champions and they're two challenge champions.

[00:21:32] So if I think Jonathan wins some motion, he could put Joe in fire against Aubrey. Joe would win and vice versa. Joe could win the challenge and put Jonathan in fire. I don't think it needs to be Rizzo. It would be a great exclamation point on the game. I do agree that I think that might put him over the line. If he doesn't win some motion and just the guys take out Aubrey, I think that there's a real argument that he would win the game because people just don't like Jonathan and Joe, I think he said that in exit press and I think he's pretty self-aware in the exit press because yeah, I mean, let's look at the votes.

[00:22:00] So he's never going to get the three loyalty and integrity people who do vote for Jonathan and Ozzy. Those are four votes. He's not going to get Ozzy. Right. That's four votes gone. So yeah. So he needs to get the other. He's going to get Sari. Then Sari, Jonathan said with the votes, I believe it. Sari. I don't believe that. I don't think she needed to. I don't think she needed to. Well, based on what she, yes, but I don't think she needed to. I don't think that's, I think he's giving Sari. He's, he's giving Sari a lot of credit so that he doesn't have to take accountability

[00:22:29] for his poor jury management. I think both things can be true. I think like he might've lost anyway, but like Sari also is an influential person and like people might listen to her very good points. But so Rizzo, so his vote. So Tiffany, we see the way that she left the game. She said that she felt personally offended by Jonathan and she actually even mentioned she's like Rizzo voted me out, but I didn't feel that type of way about him. Okay. So it seems like activity vote D I mean, Jonathan sent D out antagonizing her on purpose. Like it was a good move. So D I think is Rizzo. So Rizzo, I think he's Rizzo.

[00:22:56] The way that Aubrey kind of spoke about Rizzo is like that, that kind of underdog the way she was. I think Aubrey could be Rizzo. And then it comes down to the three people in the nerd alliance, Devons, Christian and Emily. Like, I don't know which way they would go, but it became such a battle of values at this final tribal council. Are the nerds going to decide this for Jonathan? Maybe. Maybe. But like if Rizzo can pitch some of the story he was even giving at that final four of his back-to-back games, be as disarming as we've seen him be and pitch. I think some of the game we saw him play. I think it's there for him because this is a good game.

[00:23:25] Like he's, he's in power in the pre-march. He, he comes in. They did not like the 49 people. He finds power. He finds a group immediately. Then Sari is obviously dominating and he's there at Sari's knee. No one else can say that except the Sari group. Not, not Jonathan, not even Aubrey, I think can speak to the agency that just being with Sari gave Rizzo. Then he cuts those allies, Ozzy and Sari and trades them. And we can talk about those moves, trades them for this three. We've heard of Joe and Jonathan and optimal final three to go to the end that they would

[00:23:54] in this world actually would have done. And they were likely to do. They come into that challenge, say a 75% chance of going with that final three. Can Jonathan speak to the same agency? Jonathan lost allies. Jonathan lost the loyalty and integrity alliance. Jonathan was left out of some votes. He wasn't with Sari in that way. I don't think that Jonathan has the agency that I think that Rizzo did through that end stretch and through kind of the whole game. So I'd vote for it. I love that bitch. Yeah, look, I would vote for it too, but I do think that there is an argument to be made

[00:24:24] either way, right? You could say Jonathan did the same thing that Rizzo did. I realized that I could not beat anybody else. And so I needed to sit next to Rizzo and Joe. And then, and then I took out. He didn't have to cut the out, like Rizzo's making that decision to cut. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, but we saw Jonathan get the credit for like the Aussie vote. Right. Uh, and so. Highly debated. We'll talk about it. Hey, I'm with you on that one too. But you know, with Jonathan being able to say, no, I was the one who let Aussie, uh, you know, who got Aussie out or who really wanted Aussie out.

[00:24:54] I really took ownership over the D vote. Like what one vote can Rizzo take ownership over? Not really any of them. I know. And that's the thing. Jonathan will always say, I was the one who pitched Aussie. Rizzo can say, but I let Aussie go, but that's not the same as I was driving the, the, the boat on this one, you know, or driving the vote on this one for that matter. And so I think there is, again, the argument is what I'm saying is there. I would have voted for Rizzo in this moment, but I do think that if you look at the same people that we just outlined. Yeah. I think it's coming down to the nerds.

[00:25:23] And I think specifically it's coming down to Emily flipping. Uh, I think somewhere in the, in the exit press, Rizzo was saying that he talked to Emily and Devens and was just kind of like, so, you know, like halfway through the game, they were like, we don't see what you're doing. We don't see your game, you know? And so that's why I said, I think some motion is one of those, like, you now see my game type moments. Uh, maybe even saving Ozzy, uh, with that idol, you know, with the player idol, uh, Ozzy could have been a more visible move that he could claim.

[00:25:52] I know he says that he doesn't want to be looked at as like Ozzy sheep and like, oh, you were just saving Ozzy when Ozzy should have gone. Listen, that's a fine argument to make about you being Ozzy sheep, unless you didn't go get Ozzy out before the final three, you know, as long as Ozzy's not there, then nobody cares that you were his sheep one time. You got them out when you needed to get them out. So I could argue that, you know, he's probably not giving himself enough credit, but I think that you could give credit to Jonathan as well. I think Devin's, if, if he's being honest with Rizzo, when he says, I'm not really seeing

[00:26:18] your game, does that change between now and the final tribal council or does he give it to Jonathan? You know? So I think it's close. I won't say that. I don't want to say that Rizzo could not win, but I definitely could see a world where he could. And, uh, same thing with Jonathan. I think Jonathan, I don't think it was the best game ever, but I definitely think that with the combination that he was aiming for, that was maximum. Um, that was almost maximizing his chances. I do think there's probably a better combination that it would be good for Jonathan in the final three. I agree.

[00:26:47] I know, I know they were really afraid of Tiffany. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I know they were really afraid of Tiffany, but I do think that if you were able to get her out, uh, I'm sorry, if you were able to kind of like neutralize her and just take her to the end, like not as like somebody we're targeting and she keeps winning, but if she, if she is just a number, you know, and you were the one driving these votes and I think you can look at her and be like, what has she even done? But they, they got to the point where she was like back against the wall. She's winning these challenges, you know, that kind of stuff adds to the mystique.

[00:27:16] I also think maybe even Emily Flippen, uh, could have been a good person at the end for him. Uh, because you know, who was going to like ride or die and really fight for Emily in the jury, maybe Christian. Um, I mean, I think any of these, like, cause we came such a battle of values with the fact that like the jurors are fighting with each other. And I do think that Jonathan's there weren't enough loyalty, integrity people on the jury. So his best bet of being against the quote unquote strategist is probably result because as Rizzo said, he's not really hugely respected.

[00:27:45] And like he said the same as you did that it would maybe be like a, ironically, a beast west style coin toss between him and Jonathan in that way. I think Rizzo, if he's going with any strategist is his best bet. However, I do think, you know what? Jonathan should have in a perfect world. Jonathan's best bet is being there with another loyalty and integrity person, but he didn't have the agency in that way. Like he lost allies. If he's there with a Chrissy and Joe, if he's, I know we're going back now very far, but if he's there with a Stephanie and Joe, like they have to vote for somebody. The side, exactly.

[00:28:11] But him being left out of those votes or not having his will done in those votes matters because I do think that the best, if it could not be a battle of values and now these poor nerds are staring at three loyal and loyalty and integrity people and they have to choose between them. Like maybe then he's the strategist of the loyalty and integrity people. And maybe then that's that story. But again, like that's why it matters that he was left out of these votes. Rizzo's will was done through all of this with Sari and then through flipping on Sari and Ozzy. So that's why I'm kind of high on that game.

[00:28:41] I think with Rizzo, like to defend some of these decisions going back, like turning on Ozzy and Sari and like, look, people have a lot of feelings. Rizzo is so polarizing. Like it's, I've never seen anything like it. You don't have to defend it for me. I'm with you on this one. We're in agreement. But like even last year, I tweeted being like, isn't it kind of crazy that like Rizzo has been in two seasons and he's never walked into tribal council like without an immunity idol. Like he'll have gone to the end of two seasons in a row, never without an idol in his pocket. Like I just think that's kind of crazy. I was just being like, huh.

[00:29:10] He's never voted out a survivor. But the way that people took it was like, yeah, he's they either were like, he's yeah, he's such a goat or he's the goat. There was no in between. It was I'm like, I'm not even making a qualitative statement. Like and they like they read it either way. It's like the way what's that called? Like when you have like the blob and you have to see how you see it, you know, the psychological test. Oh, like, yeah. The Rorschach test. Is that what it's called? I think you pronounced it. I don't know if you're right. But it genuinely is like that because that's what really we to see a goat or you see the goat

[00:29:39] like and I wasn't even saying anything. And they and my statement was taking every every type of way. I don't even know how I felt about Rizzo's game at that time. And I've had to spend some time thinking about it because people have so many feelings about it. And I do think these endgame decisions like people have feelings because he turned on Ozzy and Sari. And again, people don't like it. And that's why the editor struggled. But I'm here to defend it because he didn't just cut those out. Like he traded it for a final three. That was incredibly likely to have happened again.

[00:30:08] Like he had he goes there with the challenge beef for fire beef. So we're going to hopefully be able to take him there. It doesn't pan out that way. But that's results oriented thinking they walk into that final challenge. They have an incredibly high percentage chance of Rizzo being in his optimal final three. I think that that worked out. Now, then you have to look at how the threats being taken out to get there. So taking out Ozzy, was it a bit early? I don't think so. For the reasons of it's such a limited endgame. Tony always says rather early than late. And especially in this season, because God forbid you're like, I want to take Ozzy out now. Now I'll take him out in the future.

[00:30:37] And then that vote you're going to take him out is again, like the Neil Patrick Harris. Like we don't vote. We all just kind of like play musical chairs. You know, like we don't. So I think especially in the season, you kind of have to take your shots when you have them. And then Sari, I know, was like the big one because he could have forced a tie. He could have played the idol on himself, which was the only thing that the Billy IH idols could be used for. He could have voted against Aubrey. Tiffany was immune. Sari would be immune in the tie. Aubrey would be forced out. But he alone could have changed that vote by having an idol and creating that tie.

[00:31:07] So I think that's been the argument is should he have done that to have kept Sari over Aubrey, who's even less likely to win a challenge at the final four than Aubrey eventually does. I still kind of think this is a results oriented thinking, though. Like is the disparity in challenges and fire between Aubrey and Sari so great that you have to piss off your final three and Joe and Jonathan? Like they might be cornered into working with you. But I still feel like he was he was riding with those guys. Like he had a final three. He wasn't going to piss off Joe, who can be emotional, who's obviously like very loyalty driven.

[00:31:35] And I don't begrudge him for just taking that path to just get to the end and hopefully being the strategist or the least hated against Jonathan and Joe. Like I think that that does work and you don't have to necessarily be like pulling out all this flash and like cinema for that. So I'm not harsh on him making that decision. Like he didn't just cut Ozzy and Sari. He got a new final three. He was already so close with Joe, apparently. And it was a great final three for him. And in a different world where where Aubrey drops that ball, he very well could be the winner of the season.

[00:32:05] So I don't think you can look at like mistakes that he's made when it really does come down to possibly a ball drop with Aubrey like that. That's quite results oriented for me. Yeah. I mean, even the Sari vote out like you're not voting on Sari there and leave Sari in the game with Tiffany at that point. And Tiffany is willing to take Sari to. Yeah. And Tiffany's willing to take Sari to the final three. So if Rizzo was like, I can't go to the final three with Sari and Tiffany's like, yes, we can. That's not good for Rizzo. You know, he needs her out. And he's already. But again, like Sari, you never know what Sari could do somehow. You never know what Sari could do.

[00:32:35] You know, you pissed off Joe. You've left Sari in the game. Who knows how she gets into people's heads. I've seen her pull off true magic in the season alone. So who knows? And if Jonathan is OK, if Jonathan is correct and Sari is at the jury whipping votes, you don't want her, you know, against you in the jury house at Ponderosa saying, hey, Rizzo sucks. He betrayed all of us and we shouldn't we shouldn't reward that kind of behavior, you know? And so I don't I don't quibble with anything he did, honestly, because he leaves the Wizard

[00:33:03] of Oz, Sari's Sari's of Oz alliance, which is like this floating alliance that has all the influences bouncing from side to side and controlling whoever goes home and creates a new one with Joe and Jonathan. And then that one does the exact same thing. It gets Sari. It goes and gets Tiffany. Then it goes and gets our that's what the goal is. And he's accomplishing it. The one mistake is that you have you cannot be at the end with anybody else. It's not it doesn't have like a huge margin of error for for that kind of win.

[00:33:33] But that's that's the position he's in as a person who nobody has ever seen play before. They don't know him and they don't have a level of irreverence for him like they do some of the other people. I saw I think Jonathan was talking about his exit press, like, you know, how was I supposed to know that they were going to look at Aubrey with so much respect and like bring in her other games when it came when I when it came to voting? I was like, why wouldn't they just because you have never seen Survivor? Does it mean that the rest of them have not? You know, no, seriously, because I think they were even talking. I think Rob was talking to Jonathan and he mentioned, I think, Corong and Jonathan was

[00:34:03] like, I got to watch that. I think I got to watch that. No kidding. Yes. Yeah. You have to stop comparing your losing game to Aubrey's losing game because those things are not the same thing. Right. That. And so, you know what you're up against. You know, if you like you have to know, I could probably sit next to coach at the end because he's not going to own his game. But you don't know that if you've never seen coach play Survivor before, you have to know I can sit next to Joe at the end. Not because Joe is like this lovable person that's going to get a bunch of votes, but because

[00:34:31] Joe about halfway through is going to be like, I don't know what I'm doing. Just tell me where to go. And, you know, and honestly, it's you know, your opponents because you've done the research 50 seasons and you get to the end being like, how was I supposed to know they were going to vote for Aubrey? Why wouldn't they? Aubrey has played with a number of these people before. Right. So she knows Rick Davis. And even if she was never on the same tribe as these people or anything like that, you know, just through the community that's built from playing Survivor. She has played with Ozzy. She has played with Joe.

[00:35:01] She has played with Sari. Three, you would have reasonably it would be, you know, like I said, reasonable to like assume that maybe she has they have some type of warm feelings for her outside of I don't know. She played a good game, but I think Jonathan played a good game. If I have to split split hairs here, who am I going to give it to? The unknown person that I don't really know or the person that I know and respect and have watched and is a fan of to an extent.

[00:35:27] I think it's such a misstep to get to this part of the game and be like, how was I supposed to know that they were going to care about the legacy of Aubrey? It's almost like saying, how was I supposed to know that the people were just going to vote for Sari automatically? None of us have ever questioned if Sari got to the end, would she win the game? Sari could have done nothing. If she gets to the end, she wins the game. She could have done nothing. I'm talking about no challenges, no moves, nothing. Just tell me where to vote. I'll be there. I'll be fine. It get dragged all the way there.

[00:35:54] And we still to be like, I don't know if they could be Sari, you know, but you don't know that if you haven't done your research. And I think that Jonathan was just in over his head and I don't feel bad for him for that matter. I feel bad for him for other matters because I do understand how hard it must be to just like misunderstand the game that you're playing and feel like I gave it my all. I voted out the people. I did what I came to do. Why didn't I get the money? You know, why didn't I win? Why don't y'all celebrate that? I feel bad for that. I don't feel bad for him misunderstanding his opponents.

[00:36:23] That is easily like it's easily studyable, right? Like you could just go research that right now and find out who all these people are and you'll know exactly who the threats are and who you should be aligning with and who you shouldn't be. Well, this is giving me a thought and I'm going to try and vocalize now the thought that I'm having, which is everyone comes into a survivor season and we're not all just like blobs. Okay, there's going to be better than this, but everyone comes in with a baggage of perception

[00:36:53] of who they are and in a newbie season that usually helps someone like Jonathan at a final tribal council. People innately will go to that strong, brash guy over someone like an Aubrey. We've actually seen that happen before with Aubrey losing, not to a strong, brash guy, but I think that that perception worked into the type of woman that Scott and Jason wanted to vote for and let alone being outplayed by Aubrey. That perception wasn't good for Aubrey. And the one time that that doesn't happen in the same exact way is in returning seasons where it happens in a different way.

[00:37:22] And I think the people complaining being like, well, why would Aubrey beat Jonathan just for being perceived as a bigger threat? Are the people who would understand it when Jonathan would beat Aubrey sight unseen as a newbie for how they're viewed? And perception is very intricate in Survivor because that perception might be why you go at the merge or why you go early. And that's why it's hopefully a layered game because a strong person like Jonathan early might be in trouble to merge, but then they might come back around in this, um, in this kind of like circular way where at the end, then they might get more credit.

[00:37:50] But the, the, the credit that we often see through these like preconceived biases that we have often goes to the Jonathan's. We all, or someone like a Cochran over Dawn, like we might assume that person is doing more and none of the same people who are complaining that Aubrey has that perception of legacy over Jonathan would complain in those ways because it's never, we never see that in that way. Do you know what I mean? Like we always see, I think one type of person getting that credit. Not like for the most part, we all come in with these preconceived biases are the kind

[00:38:19] of people we think are leaders who are strong, who are. And I do think a lot of the time, someone like Jonathan might really benefit from that. But the one time that that is different is when it's a returning season, because then it's not based on your age, your gender. We're talking about the others with Rizzo, right? The fact that he comes across as really youthful and stuff is hard for him in different ways. So the one time that that might be mitigated a little bit in a returning season is when it comes down to legacy, then being factored into all those other demographic aspects where someone like Aubrey is above someone like Jonathan, which again, in a newbie season, probably isn't going to happen that way.

[00:38:49] So yes, we talk about those winners at war. If Boston Rob got to the end with anyone, he's probably going to win. And to be fair to Boston Rob, it's hard of him to get to the end because he is that bigger threat. So he needs to get credit for that. If it were to happen, someone like a Tony, someone like a Sandra, it's why Denise had to do that move against Sandra because she had to be a queen slayer because she didn't come in with the stature of some of these other winning legends. So the fact that Aubrey is that bigger threat is meaningful. Is it based on what happened in this game? No, but she's also not just Aubrey playing in this game.

[00:39:19] They didn't have their memories wiped to come into this game and play against just this version of each other. It made Aubrey a bigger threat. It made it hard of her to get to the end and she won that challenge. So the interesting thing about the discussion around should Jonathan beat Aubrey is, let's put it this way. If Rizzo wins fire and he sits next to Aubrey, I think that Aubrey should beat him. Aubrey is the biggest threat. He wants to get out Aubrey. They all would have failed in that. She won that challenge.

[00:39:49] Aubrey should win. However, if Aubrey loses some motion and Rizzo goes to the end and wins, I would rank him as a higher winner than Aubrey. I think Rizzo played a better game than Aubrey, but I still think Aubrey should beat Rizzo. I think that if you have someone that's like, they're this big threat, they're this huge hurdle. Someone like Rachel against Sam, you want to get them out. And if you don't, they were upset that she won. Like then you failed in your task. Someone like Jonathan, if he were to win fire, which he did and Aubrey beat him, I think yes.

[00:40:19] If Aubrey again loses some motion and Jonathan goes and beats Rizzo, would I rank him as a higher winner than Aubrey? Aubrey, maybe he was left out of some of those votes. There were some of those bad social game aspects, but like maybe I would. Maybe I think that the agency of the end game should be attributed to these guys over Aubrey, but I still think Aubrey should beat him. The task at hand was we are lower ranked people in this game. That is a perception of us with this returning season. It is easier for us to get to the end because people want to sit with us, but it means we'll

[00:40:46] have a harder time at the end if we can't execute and they couldn't, they didn't, and Aubrey will win. And did any of that make sense? Because again, I forgot to boot order earlier and I have a new one. It does make sense. I could quibble with a couple of things, but for the most part, I agree. I think that, I think the one thing that really stands out to me is that, you know, like the goal is to get out Aubrey. You failed at getting out Aubrey. Thus, you're going to, you're going to be punished for that. Right. In the past, we've seen people get, try to get somebody out and not get them out and

[00:41:14] still beat them because it comes down to the social game as well. And I think that the one thing we're not talking about, Sandra's a good example in here. Sandra's a really good example. But it is few and far between, to be fair. But it's still important. And I think that's the other part that Jonathan is missing when he's evaluating his game is that, okay, if you have to sit next to this person, why would these people vote for you over that person? Jonathan, there is no world where he could sit in front of me and explain to me why he would think he would get six votes over Aubrey.

[00:41:43] It just doesn't make sense. The people aren't there, you know, they're just whoever these allies are. And that's given that he's going to get three. He's always going to get at least three. He might get four with Ozzy. But even then, he's not getting the rest of these votes, especially when we hear about some of the anti-social things that he does leading up to this. Tiffany talking about in her exit press how when she pressed him about why me? Why am I the one you're voting out? Why not somebody else? Why not Joe?

[00:42:13] And he says, basically, you're a woman. And, you know, we think we need to go to the end with all guys because the women are all going to vote for you. By saying that you are alienating Tiffany because she doesn't want to hear because I am a woman. You won't. You are refusing to go to the end with me. And that also will alienate the other women because you've now made it about gender. That's the whole reason why, you know, or at least even if that's not the whole reason, that's not something that people are going to easily forget.

[00:42:40] And so that's just an anti-social thing that will turn people away from you. It's not going to win allies and friends and respect from people. You know, the answer there is always you're a bigger threat. You're going to beat everybody here. We don't stand a chance against you. I respect you so much. That's always the answer. Rizzo did that. Yeah. And that's exactly what Rizzo did. Jonathan didn't do that. And so, like, if you look at Russell Hance versus Sandra, Russell is pissing everybody off. He looked, everybody acts like, I'm about to get on a soapbox about Heroes vs. But you know how I feel about that season.

[00:43:09] People act as though Russell Hance played this amazing game, got to the end and people just didn't like him and they gave Sandra the vote because of that. But you have to remember why people didn't like him. It wasn't because he was blindsiding him. He looked Rupert in the face and said, Rupert, you are such a dumbass. Like, he said that to him. Christ, I think, is what he called him. Right. But he said it to him. Say it in the confessional. Yeah. You say it in the confessional. You are such a dumbass. It's not something you say to somebody who you want to win votes from. So that's that's the big thing here.

[00:43:39] If you're not able to get out this person, neutralize that person. They shouldn't be that big of a threat. We've talked about these people before who have these advantages, who keep winning challenges. But by the time by the time we get to the end, it doesn't matter that they won so many challenges. Like Sarah Lucina sits next to Brad Culpepper. Won five, what, five challenges, I think, or four. But when it came time to vote, people were like, I like Sarah. You know, I worked with Sarah. I was impressed by Sarah. I respect Sarah.

[00:44:03] And even though Brad seemed well liked, he wasn't able to earn that respect over Sarah, who he was sitting right next to. And I think we see that time and time again, honestly. So, yeah, you got to get Aubrey out. But if you don't, you at least have to create the bonds to where when people are listening, they're like, yeah, but we don't like her. You know, I think that let's say you switch out Emily Flippen for Genevieve. You probably get Genevieve vote.

[00:44:29] She doesn't seem to like Aubrey, you know, but you got to play against the people that you're playing against. And the jury has to go in your direction. Early on, I was like, I don't know who Jonathan is going to get because we don't see him interacting in like any interpersonal ways with anybody else. We see him obviously trying to move the votes and some of the things he's doing, which is a part of the game. But at the end of the day, these people have to vote for who they want to win the money. And it would be crazy for them to want Jonathan, who they barely know, to win the money over

[00:44:55] Aubrey, this person with a 10 year legacy of Survivor that they've watched and that they've played alongside. Yeah, I think that Jonathan's asking Exit Press, like, why did this happen? And like, I can't imagine how difficult it is to lose in the final vote for Joe doing it, you know, in almost, you know, immediate succession. Very, very tough. I think psychologically to be a losing finalist, but I think kind of if I have to look at the four reasons, like so hard for you, here's why. One, perception is reality. Perception is life.

[00:45:24] Like acting like, well, how come, you know, because of Aubrey's legacy, that's who Aubrey is. And that's how she's also played the whole game. It made her a medium level threat who peaked at exactly the right time. And it's meaningful. It makes it a little bit harder for her to get to the end than you. And then when she capitalizes it, it's more impressive than you getting to the end. She plays a game wearing that. We are all the combination of who we present ourselves to be. And it's meaningful. And I think that that's a big thing being kind of missed in some of the discourse of like, well, why is it just on Aubrey's legacy? Aubrey's legacy is who she is. All of their legacies are who they are.

[00:45:53] That's how they're playing the game as that, again, total package, should I say, in that terminology. That's the first thing is perception. The second thing is, I do think he tried to be strategic and he was strategic. There were strategic missteps. He loses his allies. I think it's a better game for him if he can go fully with his alliance to the end. As someone like Rizzo, you know, Rizzo's actual optimal endgame was there. Could he win on that endgame? I don't know. But I do think that Rizzo actually had his optimal final three. And I don't know that this is Jonathan's optimal final three. I think loyalty and integrity and then this three.

[00:46:23] Then I would say the social game missteps that we see, like taking Christian shot in the dark for no reason. We've spoken to some of those other things. Thinking it's a good move to send the mayor of Ponderosa out on a fight. Angry. Yeah, these are the issues. And then the fourth one would be losing some motion to at least get him to that second optimal final three and possibly taking it out from there. Those two meals. And sometimes you just don't win on the day. And I think, you know, Rob can speak to that. And he spoke to that in his conversation with Rizzo as well, that Aubrey, you know, he failed to get out Aubrey.

[00:46:52] So those are kind of the four things I look at from Jonathan's game of why that happened. Is that fair? Yeah. I mean, the the legacy thing is such a big deal because all of them are going to tell their story at the end of this and none of their story is going to be. I came on Survivor 50 and I started to play the game. They're all going to go back to their first game, including Jonathan. His legacy would also be taken into consideration. So it's kind of wild to me that he would be like, oh, how would I know that they were going to talk about the legacy and like what she did before this?

[00:47:21] Jonathan, if you get to the end, your story should be the first time I played. I was just the muscle and I didn't really understand the strategy and I was outmaneuvered and I didn't really, you know, and I didn't make a lot of social bonds. But this time I made it to the end and I was in control of the strategy and I did know these things like that is the story. Christian is going to harp on the story. That's his whole thing. He's been talking about the narrative and the story. They're all going to do it because they all have the battle scars from the last time they play in those traumas.

[00:47:51] And so you should want to do that. This is a building on your story. Aubrey gets to the end. Shannon, we could have at the beginning of the game, at the beginning, episode one, we could have ranked these people by threat level, not based on skill, but just off of legacy. Right. We could have just looked at it. I mean, we basically do, right? We basically, when we go in and draft people, we say exactly why we think they're going to win. And it's not, hey, this person is good. A lot of times it's who this person is. If Christian makes it to the end, it's going to be really hard to beat Christian. Don't care how he got there.

[00:48:21] It's going to be really hard to beat him. Same thing with Rick Devins. Same thing with Saree. Same thing with Ozzy. And that's, and Ozzy is not known for stellar gameplay. And even then, it would still be hard to beat Ozzy, you know, because of who Ozzy is inherently. There are people who it's going to be extremely easy to beat just because of their legacy. Like coach. You're going to get there. You're like, it's coach, y'all. We got it. Like, no one's going to take them serious. If Kobe gets to the end, he's going to have to do some things to change the opinions of the way people perceive Kobe.

[00:48:51] That's just who he is. And so, yeah, I just think it was a fundamental misunderstanding of the game that he was playing this time. And for that, I feel bad for Jonathan. But other than that, no, I thought that, you know, he put up a good fight. And I do think that, you know, it's a valiant effort for somebody who doesn't have as many days as Aubrey playing, who doesn't have years of experience studying the game, watching all the seasons and stuff like that. It was a good fight. It just wasn't enough. Yeah, I do wonder if, like, Stephanie and Chrissy were putting people off.

[00:49:17] Like, because it was this, like, real battle of values, which, again, you know, he doesn't have that. Like, it really became, like, and I think we've seen that theme through the whole season. Like, the beach versus the shelter people. And it was, like, that way again in this final tribal council. So I do think it was tough. I mean, to look at Aubrey's game from here, again, she probably was, like, perfectly positioned from a threat perspective. Because, you know, I guess you don't want to be the biggest threat. I mean, Seri did so amazing coming in as she did. That's why it's so impressive.

[00:49:42] Because, again, she's also the combination of everything she is when she steps onto that beach. And she's Seri. And that she could have so much control and survive as long as she did when she should have been out first because she's Seri Fields makes it even more impressive. Like, that's why we'll rank Seri's games. And, you know, she doesn't have that in Micronesia the way that she does now. And that's why that's so impressive. But Aubrey kind of is that middle-tier threat in a way that probably was pretty good for her coming in. You know, I don't think this is a great, you know, individual win for Aubrey. I think that we can say that.

[00:50:12] I think that the edit, it's not the edit's fault. Like, they gave us as much as they could. They gave us more than she had, I think. You know, I don't think that a lot of that endgame agency should be attributed to her. I think a lot of the things being given to her, like the Aussie vote is an example. Aussie gives her his entire game for reasons I still question to this day, Chappelle, what happened? I don't know what I was really getting. He was still on his loner's permit. He was still on his loner's permit, but Seri was on another beach. And then he gave her his whole game. And yes, Aubrey did run it back. But could anyone have done that? Could Rory and my child have done that? I don't know.

[00:50:42] I mean... I don't know. Really? You don't think that we can take the information given to us by someone who's handed you their game for reasons? Again, I don't know. So, and use it to save yourself when, like, Aussie, that was Aussie's move. It wasn't a good move. But that, to me, that, like, Aussie, you know who voted out Aussie? Aussie, of everyone that's been fighting over it, Aussie should get the credit for that. Yeah, but I don't want to take anything from Aubrey because I think less capable players can't do these things. I don't. We don't. First of all, we don't really know, right?

[00:51:10] But I do think, like, here, or even, let's take, you remember, I think it's David versus Goliath. Is it Angelina pulling Elizabeth to the side and being like, hey, you know, just so you know, you're about to go to the jury. And then Elizabeth, like, blows it up. Like, Angelina's trying to send me to the jury. But Elizabeth still goes. Elizabeth still goes. You know what I'm saying? Like, she wasn't able to use that and capitalize on it in a way that benefits her. I pulled that out my ass. So, good for me, right? Because that was cool. That was quick. But, yeah, I think you have to give credit for what we do see Aubrey do.

[00:51:40] And she did capitalize on that. Now, could anybody have done it? Maybe not anybody. But we definitely know Aubrey could. We've seen it now. We know that's in her skill set. That's in her wheelhouse. She used it. Ozzy definitely made a mistake. He definitely made a mistake. It was bad. But it is on Aubrey to then capitalize on that mistake. We've seen Rachel Lamont capitalize on those mistakes before. And we gave her a lot of credit for it. And she deserved it. I think we should give Aubrey the credit as well. And she said there was a lot going on in that episode for that one vote. And that vote obviously became, like, kind of the vote everyone was fighting.

[00:52:09] And you'll move her at final tribal council. Like, Aubrey takes the information. Ozzy makes the mistake. Rizzo, I think, makes a good move to cut his ally. And to me, that's quite a lot of agency to not save Ozzy in that spot. Jonathan is one who wins the challenge. He was whipping the votes. And is, like, the most active person. And that he can actually do that. He won the power to do that. It was a lot of power. But he won it. They can all speak to that in different ways. Like, I was thinking about my cheesy points for that episode. And I don't know if Aubrey would have got a look in just because it was competitive. Like, if I agree with Rizzo's move, if Jonathan has a lot of active gameplay there, now knowing

[00:52:37] that they made a final four with Aubrey, but a final three without her, I don't know that that's necessarily Aubrey's move. Like, then, yes, she saves herself. But in terms of setting it up, like, she's again putting herself in a position where she's going to have to win a do or die challenge. Those three guys are setting themselves up to 75% chance to probably be in the final three side unseen on those challenge odds. And then three cheesy points, obviously, to our cheesy winner, Sari. Like, I'm sorry. I think this is why it gets me because it's like, wow, Aubrey really used that information. And I hear you.

[00:53:06] She did that. And I do think most players could. But on the other side of the beach, Sari feels spoke to Rizzo. She spoke to Rizzo on a different beach through two different people, through her opponents. She voted out Stephanie, their ally, I think the night before, was it? See, I don't want to get confused with it, but she voted out their ally, then used them to communicate. It was. Actually, I know that it was. I thought it was Emily the night before. Or was that Emily and Stephanie? It was that same night. Yeah, no, it was Emily. Oh, Emily was the same night. Yeah, you're right. Stephanie was the night before. She voted out their ally. She used Jonathan and Joe to speak to Rizzo.

[00:53:36] And it went missing because Rizzo chose for other reasons, for his own agency. Again, I think it was a fine move because Ozzy had done a lot, Sari could possibly have known or predicted. I think it got lost because he didn't tell Ozzy for his own reasons, but she still got the message to him. So then when I hear like, well, Aubrey gave the information, I'm like, yeah, okay. Yeah, I think most people could do that. But no one could do what Sari did that night. My God, he spoke to Rizzo on another beach. It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my life. She did. She did. But to be fair, she's talking to a brick wall.

[00:54:04] She's talking to a brick wall through a brick wall. She's talking to Jonathan and Joe, who are aligned with Rizzo in wanting to get Ozzy out. She's talking to a brick wall. She is already, they've already decided they want Ozzy out. They want Sari's blessing, but they're going to do it without her. They did, but they didn't do it without her. They didn't need Rizzo.

[00:54:31] And it gave Rizzo a real active choice to choose an alliance member that they didn't really seem to know how close this alliance was or that even was an alliance. And it's like, they gave Rizzo the choice and that put their plan in jeopardy when they didn't need him for the number. Now, some of that credit can go to Rizzo for, again, the fact that the three of them are making this final three. They didn't want to leave each other out. This is going to be like the three that decide the end game. I totally get that. But then a lot of that other credit has to go with them going to Sari. Sari really, like the way she does it, she's like, I think if that's what you need to get it across the line, like tell Joe to tell Rizzo, like the deft touch that

[00:55:00] she has in that, the control that she has in that and how well they've hidden these bonds that they wouldn't even know that they're giving. They don't know that they're giving Rizzo that decision in that moment. He doesn't make it and he has reasons in their alliance not to make it, but they don't know the other side of the beastware coin, the other side of the choice for that because there is this alliance. So it's also impressive. I mean, it's impressive. It's impressive. That's the queen. That's the queen. That's mom. But I will push back a bit.

[00:55:27] Yeah, but I will push back again because yes, Rizzo has his power in this other alliance. But again, Sari is talking to Rizzo as if he is a part of her alliance. He has already flipped. This trying to get these messages through the Rizzo and Joe is a futile effort. They are not working with her anymore. This final four is already decided. We're about to take out Ozzy and then Sari and then Tiffany. That's why I do wonder if it's the next vote that we should question Sari on. And I, my throat is closing up even saying it.

[00:55:57] You see me. Yeah, no, just end the podcast. It's end the podcast. Yeah, what are we doing? It was when Devon's went and I don't think she has the power, but it becomes like Tiffany's trying to go for Rizzo. And Aubrey, ironically, is that swing vote. Does she want to become the bottom threat of like the four threats with Tiffany, Devon, Sari and herself? Or does she want to be the top threat who has to win that final challenge with the guys and they have this four? Or does she want to try and swing back and forth to try like to at least take out, you

[00:56:24] know, like a Rizzo here and then go to the end with Joe and Jonathan, but at least be in the three with them where they would have to go with her because they would have lost that like third pivotal vote and she would have then sucked into the three. Maybe Aubrey does that. Maybe there's something more interesting there, but I don't think the choice was given to her because maybe Sari should have looked at Devon's and trying to go to the end with the threats. I mean, I think Sari beats anyone. The jury kind of had the thing of like, who played the best game with EW and the loyalty and integrity alliance all said Devon's and like everyone else said Sari.

[00:56:51] And I was like, this is really such an interesting dichotomy that we're about to witness on the finale. I do think Sari would have that strategy vote and she would have beat everyone. So I think possibly if I'm going to question Sari anywhere, it's not that the alliance came against her at eight. I guess what it is, is that that alliance was formed at eight. She didn't really know that three was happening. I think Rizzo was actually ironically tiny bit of a blind spot for the queen, tiny, tiny bit of a blind spot. And if she can try and sacrifice Rizzo there, bring in Aubrey with their pregame connection

[00:57:19] and maybe even just at least show Aubrey that, you know, those three guys are going to go to the end together. That's going to make things tricky for all of us. We're all going to pick up one by one, or we're going to have to win challenges. Like you might be in trouble at five or a four. Then it may be Aubrey makes that decision and then starts coming for the threat so she can be in the three. And honestly, she probably should do that at that final seven. And all the threats I think should be sticking together at that final seven, rather than allowing those three guys to become three of the final six. So that's probably where I question it.

[00:57:46] And maybe the fact that she didn't know that that alliance had come up against her at that eight, making seven trickier for her and not necessarily having that agency for the first time ever in this game. I mean, it's always going to be tricky for her though. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like we can say like, oh, well maybe Seri can work some magic, but that's also assuming Seri can work magic every single time, all the time. And these people have to be blindly loyal to Seri, regardless of her legacy. Right? Like, you know, like I said, some people will be like, hey, I take Seri to the end.

[00:58:14] If I lose to Seri, honestly, that's just better for my legacy. Next time I play, like, hey, I went to the end with Seri. I'm super loyal. And also I'm a part of the Fields family. I'll take it. But there's no world where Aubrey, Jonathan, Joe, Rizzo, Tiffany, Rick Devins are all going to sit around and be like, okay. So I'll just get Seri to the final three and see what happens. Like, no, they were never going to let her get that far. Some people will say, oh, well, you know, she was always going to get cut at that final four, the fire making challenge or whatever. So she was going to run out of runway at some point.

[00:58:43] I don't quibble too much with the position she was in or the decision she was making. Because once, you know, you go and split the tribe in half and put Ozzy over there and give Jonathan all this runway to move back and forth. There's not a lot she can do anyway. You know, she's got to try to work her magic on each person individually. She did good work on Tiffany. She's always done good work with Aubrey. But Aubrey is not. She's not us. You know, she's like, I need to win this money. And I also think the two million dollars will take a little bit away from Seri's mist.

[00:59:11] You know, it's like a million. I'd let Seri win for two million. Right, but for two million? I don't even know if Lisa would do it for the two million American dollars. For two million? I don't know about that. Yeah, yeah. That's just like, ah, Seri, I'll give you a little something. I'll break out for a little something later on, mama, but I don't know about two million. So yeah, maybe had Rick Devins flip that coin and going out of the game and everything was a million dollars. We'd be like, all right, maybe Seri lose to Seri. Yeah, it's like, yeah, for a million, but for two million. That's what I feel like.

[00:59:41] There's so many, like the fact that Joe was so annoyed that Rick had flipped the coin correctly. It's like, yeah, we added a million dollars to the pot, but like at what cost that Rick was still here? Right. And Joe's like, and I'm not going to win it. You know, like, let's be clear. If Joe knows that. I think, oh, I think Joe knows. I am, first of all, can I just say, I am, if I will be the biggest Joe's fan for the Fred ever. I love him. I didn't, I didn't love him at the beginning of 48. By the end of 48, I was like, I kind of like Joe a lot.

[01:00:08] And now this season, I'm like, I'm all in because Joe has now identified that, hey, just I played Survivor twice. It's not my thing. It's not my, I'm not, I'm not great at it or whatever. I'm a fun guy to be around. I'm, you know, I'm a good guy. I'm very nice. I'm kind. I don't quite understand the game yet, despite playing it twice, but I'm never going to be rude to anybody on purpose. You know, I lose my temper every now and then, but you know, for the most part, it seems like a standup guy. He helped Rizzo with that fire.

[01:00:38] Didn't have to, just wanted to like whatever. Cause again, he knows he's not about to win in that final three, but he was very happy to be there. It didn't seem like he took it very hard that he wasn't getting any votes. He seemed like he very much is embracing it aside from blocking every single person on the internet. Joe seems like he's taking things in stride because I think there's an alternate universe where Joe is like Joe Del Campo, right? He's just getting dragged to the end and nobody thinks he can win the game.

[01:01:04] You know, he's just another person or even, you know, even different, like on a different set, like Butch or Roger, where is a guy who's just big and in charge. But eventually people are like, okay, but you can't win. Like Joe is somebody who got a lot of screen time. He got so much time on Survivor and he was so ill-equipped to play the game. He was not prepared at all. I remember watching his exit press and he's like, so to prepare for the game. I mean, his preseason press for 48.

[01:01:31] He's like, so to prepare for the game, I was watching the Tribal Councils only. Yeah. I just watched all the Tribal Councils. I think he watched the Challenges and Tribal Councils. He watched, yeah, he watched all the Challenges and all the Tribal Councils because you could pick up so much at Tribal Council. And I'm thinking, what are you talking about? I watch the Tribal Councils a lot of the time. Because you really can't pick up anything. It's an edited show heavily.

[01:01:57] And Tribal Council is, what, an hour or two of time that they have now whittled down to 16 minutes. And they're putting people's reactions in spot that you're not getting it. And Joe said, I watched all of those to prepare for the game. And he went to the end twice. It's so impressive. It's such an anomaly, but it's so cool. And so, yeah, if Joe has no haters, Joe has no fans, I am dead. Because I am his biggest fan. I will say that. I also really enjoy Joe.

[01:02:28] I feel like the way that people react to Joe, like, if you're not having fun with it, this is why Jeff thinks that they can't be villains. I'm not saying that Joe is a villain, but, like, even with, like, the Joe and Devin stuff, like, there were some nice moments where Devin's is, like, you know, crying because he's on his last legs in the game. And Joe is comforting him. But, like, if you can't take this dynamic, this is why Jeff doesn't want villains. Because at the end of the day, it's just, like, kind of fun and interesting. Like, it's not super toxic. Like, it's just good TV. Kind of like how I felt about Tiffany this season.

[01:02:56] Like, I really enjoy Tiffany because she brings a lot of, like, the Survivor 46 old school vibes. Survivor 46 being, like, the old school newer season where she comes back from being blindsided every episode. And it's like, F you. Sometimes we need people to say F you. Like, sometimes that's just fun. Like, that's, like, good TV. I thought that her reactions to stuff were really fun this season. I also really liked Randomly, where I think someone bit on a vegetable plate at the auction. She was like, I don't want carrots. And I was like, this is the kind of thing. Yeah, it's like that anti-carrot, anti-vegetable sentiment.

[01:03:25] I really agreed with as well. But, like, if you can't take people being a little emotional, you know, I think people say that New Year is a little game body. I think Joe's not game body. And I think Tiffany is not game body in different ways. And that stuff is just fun without ever getting toxic. And I think that that was, like, an enjoyable part of the season. Ozzy has a bit of that as well, right? Like, Ozzy, very emotional. And, like, let me, let's talk about it. Because Sari did get, obviously, really screwed by the fact that, like, by Ozzy being who Ozzy is.

[01:03:54] And I felt so bad for him. Because, like, he had a whole week of exit press being like, I've thought about this every night since it happened. Like, first five minutes of the next episode, Sari is like, you idiot. How? And I was like, poor Ozzy. Like, he's really struggled with this. And the twist itself. So that's why I think when I look at Sari, it's hard for me to kind of query what she did before the twist. Like, sacrificing the Stephanies and the Christians for Ozzy. Because she had Ozzy. Ozzy wanted to take her to the end.

[01:04:24] Sari knows no bounds. That was enough. Like, she goes on four to two. That's a three to three. And Ozzy is going to have power. And he's going to win challenges. And he's going to put it through. Like, that's her ticket. She lost her ticket. On the tribal, she's very unfortunate. I do think that once she loses it, then it becomes like, well, where are my meat shields? Where are the threats? And that's when I can query it. But I can't really query it before. So in saying that, given she was, as always, too screwed.

[01:04:51] Even though she somehow survived that half tribal. Let's do it. Because I texted you that I wanted to do this. Should we rank all eight of Sari's reality television games? We're not including Snake in the Grass. It's like a collective win. She was great. She whacks Stephanie again. But do you want to do the eight? Can we get to a consensus? We have to start with number one. Because I think that's the easiest one. I think Sari's best game ever of anything is the traitors. She wins outright. It's not even close.

[01:05:19] It is the Sari-naissance that we needed. It's all we ever wanted in life. It is the reason why I can sleep well at night. Because this woman deserves to win a game. And that is the one. And it was impressive. And it was the inaugural season and all that stuff. So, yeah. That's number one. I am ready to submit this as number two. I think I'm ready. Because actually, I put out a poll about this when she got voted out. It's hard because I think we're going to put Micronesia third, right? So, that's the debate we're having. Micronesia, she won that game. Right? She kind of won the game.

[01:05:48] She won that game. Kind of won the game. She kind of won. But she lost because she was playing against who I think is the greatest survivor player of all time. And that's Parvati. Yeah. I mean, she lost because it was a final two. And it was tough against Parvati. And I think that's why, as well, I put 50 above Micronesia. They both have Flash. Obviously, the Aussie blind side, ironically. Eric and the Necklace. There's a lot going on there. Jason Siska.

[01:06:15] We still talk about these votes to this day. But in 50, it was Flash. The fact that she got through that split tribal. The fact that she whacked Stephanie again. Just in these last couple of weeks, she spoke to Rizzo on another beach. That way she came back from Exile Island. It was so dominant. And the best thing about it, and why I think I might put it above Micronesia, is because there was no Black Widow Brigade. There was Sir Rizzo Devon. There was. But she was really sorry. Like, Sari is a really big part of that, if not pretty much individually doing it.

[01:06:44] And the fact that she comes in as Sari, again, she's a combination of who she's always been. She doesn't have that in Micronesia to the same degree. She's still very much like the person who was, you know, afraid of leaves coming into Micronesia, even though Panama, which we'll talk about, was so impressive. Now she's Sari. She was an outlier in this cast. It was an uneven cast. And Sari was much more of a legend than anyone else on this cast. She should have been dead to ride. So I think that's why, even though obviously she gets out sooner, I would put Sari,

[01:07:12] I would put the 50, season 50, second. Yeah. And it's crazy because this is actually one of the only seasons where she was actually voted out. Yeah. She really was. She had a majority of votes. Emma. Yeah. It's never, it never happens. It happens here. And we're like, but this might have been. The reason about this vote was that it was a majority. Like, you know how every vote is unique? Like, and then she started going back. Like, she did fire again. And like, we started reading. And then eventually, like, actually just get a majority of the votes. Yeah. Now, this was the one. This is it. This is some, whew. This is some serene material.

[01:07:42] It gives me that same feeling I get from the early days of Game Changers where Sandra is just in charge. And people, because people had always given Sandra the, she doesn't do anything. Oh my God. Blah, blah, blah. And she's got Game Changers. How amazing Sandra is. She's cooking. Okay. Her and JT and the sugar is the craziest moment of Survivor. Like, she just. Well, that's the same way. Is that after Game Changers, I was like, was this Sandra's best game? And like, you get up with two wins. And I think I said that at the time.

[01:08:11] So I think that's why we can maybe speak to that with 50. Yeah. Yeah. Now, next is AUV World, right? Are we in, are we aligned? Oh, no. Oh, we're definitely. Wait, no. Next is Micronesia. Wait, wait, wait. We're doing Micronesia's third. But AUV World was so sexy. What are you talking about? So low. You were in AUV World before Micronesia? Because she was, it was sexy. Sari comes in. Don't hear me. Just hear me out. Just hear me out. Just hear me out. Just hear me out. Sari is up against the. Just hear me out. Sari is up against the best in the world.

[01:08:40] And she's still Sari. She's still Sari. You got people going, hey, we need her out now. They want poverty out. And they're just voting for Sari every time. And she's like, why do y'all keep voting for me? You want poverty out. And she's just latching people onto her mist again. And Lisa's like, inconfessional, I'm ready to die for Sari. And I'm like, yes, yes, yes. Parvati is like, I will go to the end with Sari. Like she had it. She had it.

[01:09:10] Okay. AUV World for me, it's so incredibly low. We now have to do our own. Really? I loved it. I loved AUV World for Sari. She was, her back was against the wall. She was kind of, she was cooking. No. Okay. I'm going to give mine. Now we're diverging. Here's my order. You can give yours. Traders. Okay, great. 15 were on the same. Micronesia. She won that season and she got someone to give up a necklace. We talk about it to this day. It's been day. I would. Okay. My only issue is always my issue with Micronesia is that they don't really give Sari the credit for that.

[01:09:39] They make this as an ensemble cast, but they don't give, but they don't give her the credit. They only show Sari being like, you know, what if you can get the idol from, and then all of a sudden it's the Natalie show. It's like, it's like, no, it's supposed to be Sari's moment. And I think the show doesn't do it justice. I agree with you that it is her moment. I just don't think the edit does it any justice. The edit as well had to differentiate what's going to be eventual winner poverty from Rob goddess Sari because they don't want. She's barely in that moment though. I cried.

[01:10:08] But in general, but in general, it's about taking away some credit from Sari who's about to lose. Yes. You do like a last minute. There were medivacs twist and then also giving poverty a little bit more in like the previously on and stuff like that. She's going to win and trying to differentiate so that you don't talk about it. I'm splitting hairs. I'm splitting hairs. I hear you. And I, and I will, and I will definitely like submit to that for sure. Like Micronesia is amazing. I just don't think I've always had an issue with the way they don't give her enough credit for it. That's all I would say. You're a fault, Chappelle. Okay.

[01:10:38] We're talking about the show. No, we're talking about Sari. Oh yeah, that's fair. Fourth, Panama. Underratedly great. Underratedly excellent. It's good. In the poll that I did. Panama, she should have been our first boot. That first boot. That's what makes me laugh as well is that people are like, well, of course, Sari's great. She's played so much more than these other people. Like, do you know what she was doing in two days? Right. It's a four person tribe. And she is scared of leaves in that moment. Wow. She convinced the three, two, one.

[01:11:06] There's so much in Panama as well. So Panama to me is a clear four. The last shot we get of Sari in Panama before that first vote is her with those sticks trying to make fire. Because she's like, we don't need Timber Tina. And it's so funny that so much of Sari's game has come down to fire so many times. Yeah. So that's my four. Then I have game changes, which I don't remember a lot. No, no, no, no. This is wrong. No, this is wrong. You're not going to lie where I put AUV Wells.

[01:11:35] I've got game changes. As like, she didn't get a lot of flowers in game changes. But I think even surviving. And I have some, I quibble with some of the strategic moves she made in game changes. I think it was too early to vote out Andrea. To defend it though. She's such an outlier at the most to again, to go as far as she did. And she doesn't get voted out. She actually gets zero votes in that season. So that's, I think that the credit you would give. It's fair. And then I would do Big Brother, which was a tale of two halves. Hell no.

[01:12:05] The first half was 50. And then. Hell no. And then I'm going to do AUV World. Now, why don't you go against AUV World? Talk to me. Because you hate them so much. About Big Brother and AUV World is that in Big Brother, she's hamstrung a little bit by Jared. And that makes things go awry. And in AUV World, it's never going to be as high as other seasons because she's way too loyal to Parvati. She's never going to cut Parvati.

[01:12:32] Parvati comes in with the stature that she will always beat Seri. Those people did not feel about Seri. Like, they love her. But Parvati was their, like Seri, what Seri is to us. And that's a losing game. And the thing about AUV World as well is that I was like, she's making the decisions that put her to Final Four where now she has to do fire. And it was obvious. Like, I don't see how she was really protecting against her things, which she possibly could have. She was never coming against Parvati. Like, I was actually criticizing more of her game than I have in other games. And I do think it was that loyalty to Parvati.

[01:13:02] Like, she could come out in 50 and play free because she didn't have Parvati there. She didn't have that in AUV World. So I would put AUV World second last. And I would put Heroes vs. Villains, which was also a good game. You know, she was in the majority. Like, we don't get the body of work from Heroes vs. Villains. And that's my order. But I have AUV World second last. No, you got to put Game Changers down there instead. AUV World. Because here's why I give her so much credit for AUV World. That International Alliance thing that she had going on where it was like, that was Seri. That was Seri. She was the one talking to Lisa and Cass.

[01:13:31] That was Seri Black Widow Brigade. You know, she was. It wasn't Parvati's. It was. They were loyal to Seri first. You know? And so I just love how. Then she loses it. Then she loses it. Then she gives it up for Parvati's group with Luke and with Janine. And they were not prioritizing. She does. I get that. But I think it was so impressive the way she was able to do that and to balance those alliances. That's way more impressive than anything that she does in Game Changers, for sure. Now, Game Changers. Game Changers is impressive that she was not voted out of the game.

[01:14:01] Yes. But I mean, that was this raggedy game that they made us watch, right? Where everybody had an alliance at the final six. Like, this is. I mean, everybody had an idol at the final six and advantages and all kinds of stuff. It's like, look. Look. I got to put Game Changers lower. It's just. It's awful season two. I can see it. No, no. I'll defend it. I'm not going to have you at AUV World before Micronesia. I'm not going to let you. No, listen. I'm with you on Micronesia. But I cannot stand for Game Changers being higher than anything. It's just not. OK. OK. Compromise. We can do this. Kratos.

[01:14:31] 50. Micronesia. Panama. We got to do Panama. And then. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Put AUV World up before. And then Big Brother. And then Big Brother. Yeah. And then Game Changers. Yeah. OK. I'm willing to concede. Because Big Brother. I think Big Brother is seeds of 50. The things that she was doing in Big Brother is the same thing she was doing. Yeah. And the first half of Big Brother, honestly. It's her being the nucleus of power. And wherever she goes is where the votes go. It's not like Sari had a big alliance. It was six of them.

[01:15:01] And then they started whittling people down. It was Sari, Izzy, and Jared. Or even Sari, Izzy, and Felicia. And then if she decided, OK, this week we're going to get you out. We're going to get you out. And then we've decided next week. Wherever Sari goes. The problem was it was happening four or five times a week. Every other day, Sari was being like, what if we just vote this person out? And then I had to stress out all week as Sari just made random decisions and it changed her mind. But it was so fun to watch. But then at the end, she has no win.

[01:15:28] There's no agency that she has for herself to win the game for the last month of Big Brother. You know, she's there. She cannot win a challenge to save her life. She will not get taken to the final two. It's not going to happen. The only way she can get to the final two is if she wins. And that's just not happening. And then one of her closest ally has to win. And it's another 50-year-old woman named Felicia. You know, it's just... What a year that season was. Oh, my God.

[01:15:57] Big Brother is not her game because Big Brother... It's not. And she hated it. Yes. And as did I. There was... There's so much agency to the challenge winners. But like, that doesn't prevent Sari from having power in Survivor. Like, it does screw up defensively at the end. But you don't have to win your agency similarly. I mean, the fact that she had as much agency as she did as someone who wasn't winning challenges was what was so impressive about Big Brother. But like, that's not the format for her. It is interesting that obviously, like...

[01:16:27] We will talk about like Sari and like the best ever Pantheon. And I do think for her, what's tough is like she has gaps that some of these other best players don't have. Like, she's not going to win that challenge. But she can also do things that other people can't. Like, she spoke to Rizzo on that other beach. She's not out. But like, and just like, she is magic. Like, genuinely, like she's doing some things other people can never do. But there are things where, as we're saying, like, even if she does keep Devins at that final seven, it's not even like, well, then you've kept another round.

[01:16:55] Now, instead of going at six, have you got yourself to five? And maybe you can win out. We're not trying to get her further to win out because they will have the shot to take at her eventually. And that is always going to be a hole that is really, really difficult. But a couple of things about that is, I mean, firstly, I think that actually makes keeping Devins a better move for Aubrey than for Sarie. Because Sarie, if it's not at six, it might be at four that she's going to go at some point. But for Aubrey, that might have put her in a final three rather than having to win at four. So I actually think that like, for Aubrey, maybe keeping Devins there, I'm now thinking is the interesting move.

[01:17:24] And maybe then you go to that three and you just then flip back to the guys and vote out the other threats in Tiffany and Devins and Sarie at that point. I'm actually thinking that maybe like for Aubrey. But I do think that the other thing people will say about Sarie is like, oh, well, of course, they didn't get rid of her early because she, you know, she's someone who they can easily take out at the end. But before you've gotten to the end, she decided the whole game. Like, of course they didn't. She can go at the end. It's like, but do you think that the members of the jury are like, well, it was so easy to take her out at the end. No, wait, I'm on the jury.

[01:17:53] Like, that's why you have to take her and they still don't. And that's the myth. It's not the fact that like, oh, well, like, you know, she's going to be such an easy. And I think this is something that's true of like, I've said about George as well. King George is like, well, he's never going to win that final challenge. So they can just take him out then. It's like, but before they did that, he decided the winner. He decided between Liz and Matt and all of them. So that's why she's ridiculous. And socially. And socially with George too. You know, like you probably think if I get to the end with George, I could probably beat him. But the problem is, you're not, you might not be the one who gets to sit next to George

[01:18:22] at the end. You might be in the graveyard of people who thought maybe I can get to the end with him, you know? So yeah, I mean, I think Sarie is one of those. She's like, she's like the whammy, you know, like our landmine. Like, it's like, yeah, you, you run into it and you're like, oh shit, I fucked up. And now I gotta go, you know, like, and now I'm gone and it's too late. And it's always like, you always drift about the moment. I was going to get her, I swear. Right. If it wasn't for you meddling kids and that puppy, you know, it's always something like that. And so, yeah, but she, she does it every time.

[01:18:51] And now she's retiring Shannon. And honestly, I'm okay with that. Because I think 50 was such a strong showing, but also because like she's, she's only getting older and you know, like these people are, the game is only getting more physical in a lot of ways and faster. And like, you know, like, listen, she's a grandma. I wouldn't want my granny out there playing survivor at 65 years old. Like let her rest. She's done enough. Her legacy. I know. I know. I'm just saying by the time she plays again, right? Like who knows?

[01:19:18] So I think like now is a good time to lay it down and say like, Hey, she can do other things. And I can't wait to see what those are. I really enjoyed that. She whacked Stephanie for the fourth time. I thought that was so funny. I also think like talking about big brother, like we kind of saw her play. Like we saw her play with her son in Jared. And then we saw her play with her like adopted son in Rizzo. Who's not even playing for her to win. Like Jared should be. And we got to see what would be more difficult. And honestly, it was with Jared. Like genuinely like how it went worse. That's because her real adopted son.

[01:19:47] That's the problem is Ozzy, but we don't have to get into that. Yeah. And that, I mean, Ozzy was giving me. I think Jared, same person. Jared, what? He was talking to Aubrey. I genuinely like. Ozzy, Jared, same person. I was like, why am I getting such a strong sense of deja vu? Right. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. She's like, again, but I didn't even birth you. Like I didn't even. Yeah. She birthed so many of us and just did no way. It's not. I'm sorry, Sarita. She crossed the bear. I want to bring up that you were shading me on club condo because I was saying

[01:20:17] that I didn't think that she would win fan favorite. And look, someone, we have to be wrong eventually. You know, like I said, yes, I'm very happy to be wrong. Can I tell you why I thought she would lose? No, because I don't want to talk about that. I'm saying it. The casuals hate her. I have a baby on me most of the day. I'm on my phone a lot. It keeps going to my algorithms. These random groups. These people hate her. They, I was like, but I think that they couldn't work out how to vote. And I'm willing to say this now.

[01:20:43] Hating Sari, especially in the way that those people hate Sari, is an intelligence test. Like, they're like, I don't understand what I'm missing about her. It's like, yeah, you really, you don't, you don't understand it genuinely. Like, that's the problem. Like, and then there's another thing where it's like, I feel like the people who hate Sari and the people who can spell Sari, that Venn diagram is two completely separate circles. Like, I've never seen anything like it. The macro aggressions are insane. I was like, these people will never vote for Sari.

[01:21:10] I really felt like they would kind of consolidate on Devon's. But I think they couldn't work out how to vote. Like, I think they probably got scammed or some sort of like computer virus because. Yeah. I think, did we do that? We should have done that. We should have done some sort of virus. It's because they don't love Devon's either. They don't, they didn't have a ruling interest. They were happy to be fair. Right. They love, they love Ozzie. They like Devon's. They like Jonathan. There wasn't enough cohesiveness for them. Yeah, they like Joe. I thought we were going to do that.

[01:21:40] People were like, I'm voting for Genevieve. I'm voting for Q. You can't, you can't, you can't listen to those people. Okay. Those people. Let Q get his three votes. You know, it's fine. Okay. But I was like, don't split the vote. Like, yeah, we're not doing that. We look, give that woman her money. And look, I don't, I don't trust any of the other votes that we've, we've done this season. I don't trust this one either. I'm happy Survivor rigged this in Sari's favor. I agree. Like, no, this is how I said this about the finale. It was like the finale reminds me of the whole season and that it was kind of a disaster.

[01:22:09] But I liked the parts with Sari. When they brought her on stage to give her that trophy, I was like, yes. Yep. Give her her trophy. And then money as well. And then. Yeah. Oh, what? And why didn't she get a car? Why didn't she get a car? What did you think about when Rizzo came on stage to, uh, to. To talk about the challenge that he hadn't lost yet? Let's talk about it. Because why did I see that? I wasn't watching live. Why didn't they repackage it for the people who weren't watching live? Why did the West Coast also get the mistakes? Because it's iconic.

[01:22:39] It's iconic and it's real and it's raw and it's so good. And it's just perfect television. Like you could see the survivors be like, Jeff, no, stop, chill. And Jeff's like, what? We don't know what's going on. Everybody's like, we do know what's going on. You fucked up. It's so good. I feel so bad for them. I don't feel bad because why did you do the reunion like this? This is not the reunion special we were promised. It's not what we voted for. And that's what you get. That's what you get. That's what you get because we voted for what we used to have, which is the finale and then the reunion.

[01:23:08] And then you go down the road and you talk to the people, you ask them how it feels to win a million dollars and all that kind of stuff. They didn't do that shit this time. They were playing games, trying to get the pre-jury out the way early and all kinds of stuff. And here's Rizzo. The pre-jury. They didn't give them anything. That's not what we signed for. I voted for the old finales that we used to get, not this, this thing that you did this time. And so, yeah. In the shredder, but it's nice that you tried, but I like, this is, so it was kind of comical that, but right before the finale,

[01:23:37] they just did an interview where he was like, I don't want to do a reunion. I just want to check in and make it a whole event and check in the whole time. It was like pigs taking moments before disaster. Like that's exactly what went wrong. So that decision was bad, but played out worse than anyone could have imagined. I know I said the finale was so predictable, but I guess the fan favorite vote that I didn't think Sari would win and was so elated that she did. And this was not predictable. I couldn't have seen this coming. I do agree in terms of the finale. Like we got like shadows of these like former old school things,

[01:24:07] where it's like, we got the loved ones, but why like this? Like do a challenge. We got the car, but why just to pile on Aubrey's 2 million, do a car challenge. Like we got a reunion. We didn't speak to, we didn't even show that they'd invited all these winners. We didn't speak to the people that Jeff would say. Where are the people on the street? Where are the kids on the street? Who like Malcolm and Cochran? Where are the kids? Where's Cochran? And Cochran was there. Like I, they didn't even speak to Cochran. They used to speak to people about how much they love Cochran. How far we have fallen.

[01:24:37] How insulting the show has been to so many people. Like they've insulted Colby. So they brought him back just to insult him over and over. He goes in the blood moon twist. You didn't even check in with Colby. They were insulting to Coach. 10 seconds with Coach at the end. He doesn't even get a segment. Like we needed more time. I would like to speak to kind of everyone. Like the criticism of the Australian Survivor finale was that they did too much. They kept showing you guys that- Yeah, different angle. Different angle. Different. And they had too much time. But this was like not nearly enough. For a pretty ho-hum finale, I would have cut out some of that content

[01:25:07] and I would have loved to talk to some of these non-jurors. Give me Q. Give me Angelina. Give me like all of these, you know, really upsetting high deal or no deal cases for me that we lost really early. And at least pan to the winners that you've invited to be there. And we had like 20 something winners there. I definitely would have said that. The mistake was unfortunate. Do you know an element of Australian television lore, like the other major mess up, I should say, was on Top Model. They pulled him as Universe.

[01:25:37] They announced the wrong winner. So this kind of gave me flash. Like that was worse. They announced the wrong girl for like 30 seconds. She believed she won. And then it was the other person. That was the season before I was on Top Model. And then when I went on Top Model, they had to make it like a massive start because they'd messed up so badly. And so we got sent to Paris. And I always think about that. Like the little domino is like them screwing that up. And the big domino is like now I'm in Paris.

[01:26:05] So that was like probably the worst thing I've seen until this moment, which was so unfortunate. Why am I watching it? I'm watching Delayed. Why am I watching it? It's so funny. Jeff screwed up. It's so funny. You know what? It shouldn't be the end of live readings, which obviously is. It should be the end of fire though. I'll take it. You just got to make sure the fans don't vote for it. Because Shannon, now we're in the open era of Survivor. The open era where anything that was happened in the past could happen,

[01:26:34] but also anything can happen in the future that can happen. And so basically we're back to the new era because that's basically what we've always been operating under the assumption that you could just do things that you've already done. Like we've never said, oh, they're never going to do blood versus water again. They're never going to do Brains, Beauty and Bronn again. They're never going to do the fire tokens again. Like I've always assumed Survivor is just going to reach back and get whatever they want to get whenever they, whenever they want to. But Jeff has branded us the open era. And now we get to see how we move forward and leave the new era.

[01:27:04] These 10 seasons in the past were not. I don't believe it. Like it's not all fair game. They're not doing a final team. They're not doing fire. The same way that they were never not doing fire in this season. I don't trust them anymore. I mean, obviously, extreme precedent. Okay. A few things I want to check in on before we go that we haven't spoken about in the last month that I haven't podcasted. I mean, firstly, do we want to wrap up like Aubrey's win? Like where would you rank Aubrey as like a new era winner in this game alone?

[01:27:33] So even though she is obviously a combination of everything she's ever been. She didn't have control most of the game, but she also was coming in a spot where her, her threat level was relatively high. But like you said, probably in the middle of the role, but she has to play to that. She was started off on a tribe. That was a bad tribe for her, but she worked her way out of it, which is good. But she won challenges. Yeah. And she won, and she won challenges. She never went tribal. Yeah.

[01:28:01] And she needed to win at the end when she did. That was clutch. I'd put her probably, I mean, you know, you know my ranking somewhere at the top, you have Marianne and, um, Marianne and, um, Kyle and D, right? Those three are probably, yeah, I think D is, I think D is number one for me. Then Kyle and Marianne, uh, maybe, man, it's really hard for me to not put Marianne second. So D, Kyle, Marianne, then I'll put,

[01:28:29] then I'll go with Aubrey from there and then Rachel and then. Oh, wow. You're putting us so high. I mean, not really. That's about, that's the middle. Oh my God. I have a so much lower. Much like AUB World. I have a second last in the new year. Oh yeah. I don't know about all that, but, um, you know. I mean, I just did a new era winner ranking, so it's easy to do. And I've put Erica second last. Now, again, a lot of the new era winning games are, are really good. So that's why it was so tough to do it at the time.

[01:28:56] I just feel like I can't really put her above Erica because I feel like Erica's game has more of like real agency at the end. And Erica wasn't necessarily going as much early when Aubrey was. Well, no, Erica was definitely going early. And then the worst twist that ever happened in Survivor happened. And it was the hourglass where she could save herself and put her entire, the entire side that won the challenge. Yeah. I don't think a lot of people were though. Yeah, it's true. And she benefits from the twist, but Aubrey benefits from the twist.

[01:29:23] I think that's what's unfortunate, but also pretty fitting about this win is that it was such a twisty season. And again, if Samri wins, she's, you know, she's evaded the twist in incredible ways. But given that Aubrey won, it was much, it was in the vein of the season in that she benefited from the twist. Like that's as the season should give as a winner. So I think. And from the format as well as the twist, like she doesn't, in the three tribes, she doesn't go to a tribal castle early. She's gifted an idol because that's how the Billie Eilish boomerang idol works.

[01:29:51] Like, yeah, I think he's, I think, I think my issue is that I think the jam jam spot is probably where I'm putting her right around the gym, wherever jam jam is. She's either right above or right below jam jam. I think, I still think she's over Rachel. I just think Rachel like really was in a dire situation the entire game. Like it was like, yeah, she don't get me wrong. Impressive that she won, but she was against the wall the entire game. And not because of just like, oh, you know, she ran out of other allies or something like that. Like she was actively being targeted for most of the game.

[01:30:18] It's impressive that she was able to evade that, but also not the greatest survivor play. Like even she would say that that's not ideal. She does benefit from some advantages and some twists as well. So, you know, I'll give her all the credit in the world. I think she maximized her opportunities with what she was doing, but it's still rough. I think that Aubrey's probably like, like I said, probably like the better to me, the better version of that. Well, yeah, I mean, look, Rachel was like the polarizing one, I think for a lot of the rankings that like the fans did when we did that a few months ago.

[01:30:46] But yeah, I just feel like it's, it's, there's so many similarities to Erica, but it's just not as good. So then I just have to put her below Erica and I already ranked Erica. So that's kind of makes it easy for me. I do think, you know, I'm glad her legacy has this win, as we're saying, like I've been an Aubrey fan since she played in Co-Bron. I was like such a huge Aubrey defender. And when she was speaking about it at the final tribal council, she got that question about her story and her narrative. She got me. I was like, oh yeah, like I'm a big Aubrey fan. Like I thought that was really well told. So I'm really glad for her legacy. I think this game was really limited. I think it was really luck based.

[01:31:16] I think that's a really hard story for the edit to tell as much as we've spoken about, like the edit issues. Like I actually don't really blame much of the edit here. I think they gave us as much as they could for her win too much was we're saying because they have to. But yeah, I think that the game itself, it's just such a hard game to play, to show. I guess because it mostly comes down to like winning that final challenge like that. That was most of it. And that's a difficult story for them to tell. But all right, so that's Aubrey's game. Do we want to tie a bow on Sari? You wanted to do this. You forget that you messaged me.

[01:31:44] You said, should we rank Sari as the best ever or where is she in terms of best ever? For you as survivor players, I guess is an easier one to do once we start putting in internationals. You know, even more complicated. Yeah, like yeah, worldwide would be tough. I don't want to get into that. But as far as like if we just started with US, like I think poverty is the GOAT. I think that's to me, that's undisputable. We just had some conversation, ironically. Yeah, like she, poverty is the greatest part of the greatest of all time. I stand. I will argue with anybody as far as I'm concerned. I knew you were about to.

[01:32:14] She's the total, poverty is the total package in every way. She is, she, she just, she, there's nothing that she's bad at in Survivor. It's just not a thing. Like, um, Sari has her, her, you know, deficiencies. And so don't love that. Um, you know, then you have other winners who I would have to look at probably as well. You know, like Boston Rob at his peak game is probably better than Sari. Um, because again, Boston Rob is going to have complete control.

[01:32:41] And if he doesn't have complete control, which he will, he's going to then win the challenges that need to be won. Um, but now we can have a conversation. What about you? I think that a few months ago we watched poverty slay a UV world. And at the time I said the two best ever are Tony and poverty and your mileage may vary on which one. And you're not wrong if you say that. And actually I think, was it Mike who just did this where he asked the players who their best of all time was.

[01:33:10] And it really could have a lot of things for me because there were times when I'm like, that's correct. And that's not. And I think that like, I'm about to give four people and I'm going to put it in my order, but I think any of those four are an incredibly legitimate answer. Okay. I've now thought about my mileage varying on Tony V poverty and I'm putting Tony first. I think Tony is the best. Oh, that's important. We might as well wrap this up. I can't do that. I can't do that. Tony, the way Tony plays the first, the first time he plays is so erratic that I can't ignore the ups. Yes.

[01:33:41] However, however, survivor, the, the survivor 40, when it's a war game, it's like, it's flawless. Um, and so like I can give him credit for that, but also. So there are other things that I have to take away from, whereas I don't have as much to criticize poverty over the entire entirety of all the games that she's played. Like how many mistakes has poverty actually made in survivor versus how many things have Tony does, whether it's anti-social or just anti-strategic. I think that poverty is going to outrank him in both of those situations. And then physically, I think she outranked him as well.

[01:34:10] Poverty had a limited social game earlier, went earlier on where it was this like clicky social game, like a Savannah style social game that she doesn't seem to have anymore. But that's the game that won her. That's still a game that won her a season. And Tony being so erratic in Kageyan, he also won. Yeah, he did win. Yes. And he's now better than that. And she's better than that too. I think they both now. You know what I'm about to say. You know what I'm about to say.

[01:34:35] Tony had a god idol in, uh, in Kageyan, which allows him to do all the things that he was able to do with those things without that thing, he would have gotten voted out. Poverty in Micronesia was never going to get voted out. She just, she controlled that. And then Henry was versus villains. She went to breakfast with Sari. She went to breakfast. She beat her. Sari did not go to the final two. So Poverty went to the final two and won. And then. The final two is greater than Yonah. And then, and then part. No, it's not. And then. No, it's not.

[01:35:04] No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. Stop it. Stop it. Shenanigans. Like you get every episode of Kageyan. Every episode of Kageyan is people saying, I wish I could vote out Tony, but I cannot because he has a god idol. That's like four episodes in a row. It would have happened. It would have happened. And then heroes versus villains. Poverty is just God tier the entire time. Then AU survivor. Poverty. AU survivor. Poverty is incredible. Okay. I agree with you. That bar. Okay. So she has three incredible games.

[01:35:34] Micronesia. Heroes versus villains. And AUV world. Tony has two games. One that I say was like good game. Kageyan is very good. I think the other one is incredible. I think that the things that he did in survivor 40 are unmatched. But that said, Poverty did it three times at least. Right. I think I'm a little lower on Micronesia than you. I think I'm higher on Kageyan than you. And I think those people. The best game ever played.

[01:36:01] Those people were loyal to Poverty so much. Like it wasn't that. Like Sari was playing a winning game. She was playing a winning game. But make no mistake. Alexis. Natalie. Amanda. They were all there because of Poverty. Not Sari. Yeah. It's still very good. I'm just not as high on it. Like all of these. Well, you get higher. The bar is so high. Like you can't even see it. It's a dot to us. Yeah. But I'm having to now make these distinctions to do it. So for me, I'm going to put Tony first. But now after 50, I'm putting Sari second.

[01:36:32] That's correct. Get out of here. Okay. Look, I love her. I love her. But make no mistake. You are playing in Poverty's face. Poverty could go out and win every challenge after the merge if she wanted to. That is incredible. If she wanted to, she doesn't even have to. But she could. She's also going to find idols every single time she plays. She's going to find an advantage. She's going to. This is crazy. I really can't believe you got me arguing against. Listen, you have me arguing against Sari, which is crazy. I love it. I love it. This is a gift to me. This is a gift.

[01:37:02] You're about to leave. There is no way. Poverty is the greatest survivor player of all time. And you cannot change my opinion about that. Sari can be number two. She cannot be over Poverty. Because even you just said, if Sari goes to the end with Poverty, who wins? In AUV world alone. In AUV world, that was the jury for Poverty. I'm not even sure that. I'm not even a thousand percent sure. I don't even know. I don't know if we know that. It's always been debated. I'm not doing it with you right now. But it's always been debated. I choose to believe. The thing is not debatable. I will do the debate. I will do the debate.

[01:37:31] I don't have time to debate it. We've been talking for two hours. I can't debate it with you. I have a baby I have to get back to you, please. I think she would win Micronesia. Name your baby Sari. Name your baby Sari right now. I'll take it back. I'm three months old. I can't just change her name. You can. Many times this season, I thought about it. I was going to text you, like, please. Okay. Rory is such a cute middle name. But I was like, but Rory is such a cute middle name. What if, like, Sari was the first, like, the Sari Rory? Like, it's very nice. It's nice.

[01:38:01] You argued against Sari. That's something that happened. I'm so angry at you for making me do this. The AUD World jury specifically was, like, Shawnee and Sarah and, like, people who, like, really would love Parvati over Sari. I don't think that that makes Parvati a better player than Sari. I think that was her. She played it. It was a perfect game. The woman has beat Sari three times, Shannon. She has beaten Sari in Survivor three times. It doesn't count. She wasn't there. She's a hero and she was a villain. They were versus each other. By the design of the game, she beat her.

[01:38:31] The only time that's relevant is AUD World because... She beat her in Micronesia 2. This is crazy. The people in the comments are going to be shocked that I am doing this. And they're going to agree with me. I'm talking about for me. Y'all hear me. I'm fighting for my life. This is crazy. Shannon, this has been so much fun. I cannot do this with you. Please don't come for us. Please don't come for us. Tony Sari. There's no way. There's no way. Sandra. That's it. That's the order. Tony Sari, Parvati, Sandra, and any one of them being the best ever is a great answer. That's my answer. That's crazy.

[01:39:01] Okay. Any one of those people? That's correct. I don't think Boston Rob is a correct answer, though. I think... He might be. I still... The only thing I will say is that Boston Rob in Redemption Island and Boston Rob in... I don't think he... No, listen. Listen. Hear me out. Boston Rob in Redemption Island and Boston Rob in... Boston Rob in All-Stars. Those are incredible games of Survivor to play, just in general, right? So, yes. I can hear you. I don't mind putting Boston Rob down. I'm not the biggest Boston Rob fan. But I'm just saying, like, him at his best is really, really hard to beat.

[01:39:31] You know, he just doesn't have a lot of deficits when he's at his best. He's not always at his best. So, to your point, yeah. I'll give you that. I love Sandra. I love Sandra. Look, I've always been a Sandra defender. Never dissed at all. So, if you want to give... No. If you want to give me... If you want to give me Poverty, number one. And then... Tony... Oh! ...Number two. Saree, number two. Then Poverty, number three. And then... You said Tommy's up. No. Poverty, number one.

[01:40:01] Then Saree, number two. Then Sandra, number three. Then Tony, number four. That's what I'm going with. But they're all correct answers. I mean, look, Bossa Rock... They're all correct answers. Like, he's not... They're going to come for us. The people coming for us. But it's okay. I don't read it. We're not going to read the comments. We're not going to read the comments. They're all the correct... They're all correct. If they're correct for you, that's fine. And listen, Bossa Rock could be number five. Bossa Rock could be number five. I think that feels fine. I think that feels right. That's solid. We didn't agree. We argued for minutes. We didn't agree. My name is okay? All right. So, the twist. Uh-huh.

[01:40:30] What were your thoughts on Be Swear? It happened. I think it's an awful twist. I think it's an awful twist. I'll say it. It's an awful twist. People loved it. The coin toss? People loved it. That's why I want to talk about it. Because it's crazy to me. Like, again, we're a creep now. It's an awful twist. It's an awful twist. This is an awful twist. This is an awful twist. Because if it lands on tails, we wasted an entire episode. Yeah. And also, because we didn't vote anyone out. Also, because Saria 100% would have gone, right? Like, the way that we're all so sure

[01:40:58] that if it goes to rocks, Saria's picking that rock and she's landing on tails. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would have happened. This is an awful twist. We got lucky, but this is an awful twist. I don't ever want to see it again. I've never seen such results-oriented thinking. Like, that was great. Like, do you know when I saw that before? It was when the idol nullifier was paired with the vote steal on David vs. Goliath. For like the one time ever, it didn't like hurt what would be an underdog with an idol. Like, it actually helped the underdogs. That was so unlikely. Like, it took pairing all of these twists. And instead,

[01:41:28] what happened was, like, it just happened to work out. It's like, oh, that's a great twist. But it's not. Like, I think production will read the wrong thing into this. But like, that works so well because it happened to like land on the right thing. I don't think they could have read it because he called heads in the moment. And what does that episode look like if it's tails? And also, that's not Survivor. Like, the idea that it could have gone to rocks and someone could have been coined out of the game. Like, it really should be enough for us to quit the show. But like, we've said that so much that it lost for me. I just wanted to touch on that because I was shocked in the moment how high so many people were on it.

[01:41:57] And it was just so results-oriented to me. Now, there's another twist like that in the 40s as well. I can't remember what it is. Do or die. Do or die. Yeah, the first time it happened, people were like, that was fun. And then the second time it happened, it was bullshit. And people, I was like, but it was bad the first time too. It was bad both times. But because it worked out the first time, everybody was fine. The second time, it didn't work out.

[01:42:27] Like, the players breathe life into it. And like, Devin's enthusiasm was fun. I do think it's like the defining moment of the season in every way in that it was so bad, but then like parts of it were fun. And then like, that's the Stephanie Tribal Council where they get out. Like, all of that probably is the defining moment of the season, but it's for better and for worse. And like, I just got to believe that people were like, this was a great twist. Like, that's not Survivor. This was Beast Games, I think. I've never watched. But it was Survivor. Do you think Billie Eilish liked this twist? Do you think Billie Eilish watches the show?

[01:42:56] She loves this show. It's her favorite show. I thought it was funny that Jeff started the reunion by being like, thank you to everyone who's here because of the celebrities. I'm like, I don't think that Billie Eilish is watching thanks to Billie Eilish. Like, I don't even think they brought in that one celebrity viewer that Billie Eilish should be. Isn't it crazy as well that she hates the show? And we all found that out. Does she hate the show? Yeah, she was making fun of us. She was making fun of me, specifically. She was like, rolling her eyes. Yeah. That's her persona, though. She gives like her like bratty teenager

[01:43:26] kind of vibes. You know, she's grown. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, I feel like that's the energy she gives. Like, I can't care less. I don't know. I'm too cool for this. She's not too cool for Survivor. Survivor's too cool for you, Billie. Oh, she thinks she is. What did you think of the split tribal? Which one? Well, the one with Jonathan going back and forth. I didn't love it. It wasn't my favorite thing. I mean, it was interesting, but not in a way where I was like, I want to see that again. What about you?

[01:43:56] I think, I mean, I think that the limited four, like they gave up a final nine vote. We got two amazing final nine votes in Australian Survivor this year. And like final nine is like meant to be the vote. It was so sexy. It was such a fun vote at both times. Yeah, both so good and in different ways. And we lost that. I mean, again, it was interesting because Ozzy, Ozzy, he jarreded. And Sari's incredible. Like that part, although it did also screw Sari, but like, I just don't know why they want to give up their final nine. Like they were lucky that there was like meaning again in these rock draw little votes because Ozzy so much

[01:44:25] chewed up his own game that it was meaningful. And like Emily was so out of allies and was getting outplayed by Sari because Sari's so amazing that it like gave it meaning. But when you put people into these tiny little groups on rock draws, it's much more likely that they're going to go for a non-meaningful reason. So I think they got lucky on that. But I mean, yeah, were any of the truest goods this season? Can we point to one that was like that really added instead of detracting or maybe just working out? Like it just happened to work out or it didn't, like it was, Ty Destiny's was like fine. Was there anything that actually added value other than just

[01:44:54] doing a vote? I can't think of one. Like I would still rather get a vote than be swear, even though the moment itself looked out as great as ever and to me was also flawed as like a mechanism. Yeah, I mean, the worst, to me, the worst part of the season were the Billie Eilish boomerang idols. I think it's, it's such a restricting part of the game. Genevieve finds all of these idols, can't use them and then of course needs one and she can't use them. Even with Rizzo, if he, with his idol, what if he was able to play it for Sari or whatever

[01:45:23] and just change the game a little bit, you know, by like a ha ha, y'all thought we were going to do this, but I, I've taken ownership of a move. It's like, it has to be on yourself. It just limits the gameplay. I hate it. I think all the twists were bad. I think every last one of them were bad. I think they, we got some good moments from twists. I think the twist themselves, the blood moon is so lame. It's weak. It's whack. I don't like none of it. Yeah, no, I didn't like any of it. I think the coolest moment of the season, honestly, Jeff doing the challenge.

[01:45:52] That was incredible. Love that so much. I think that, I mean, the reason the twist had anything was because the cast gave it something, which is so ironic because Jeff said they would, they were playing because of Mr. Beast. It's like, they actually shouldn't be playing. The tribal council might be canceled. Like, you're lucky you have players like Devin's who is willing to go in there and tear it up and be incredibly fun. So, yeah, I mean, I don't think, I do think, you know what, maybe Billie Eilish does watch, but she knows it's a bad twist, so she doesn't want to get credit for it. Yeah, she's like, this is all a long con. Yeah, yeah, she'll be back

[01:46:22] when the twists are good. She's like, oh no, no, no, I'm a really big fan. I'm like a super fan. I'm on Survivor every day. Right, she gets it. She gets it. She's like, open era, she's going to be all, she doesn't have a fan, but she just knows she didn't want to be, she knows that it was a bad twist and she doesn't want to be associated with it. That's really smart. I don't blame her. Chappelle, thank you so much for keeping me from my life and letting me talk about Survivor instead of, again, just, you know,

[01:46:53] I guess being a mom, which I haven't podcasted in like a month, so I'm glad I got to get out a lot of thoughts about the end game of the season and more. Yeah, this was fun. Thank you. Thank you. I love talking about Survivor and I love talking to you. Two things, married them up together. Same thing. We had a great time. Great evening. It was so much fun. We got to talk more. Text me. It'll be fun. It was crazy that you argued against Suri. I cannot believe you made me do that, but it is, I came around like poverty being the greatest

[01:47:23] of all time, literally talking to you and now here I am talking to you and you're like, no, she's third. Third is crazy. Third is crazy. Can't do it. All of those answers are correct. Your mileage may vary. That's just my order. Please don't come to me in the comments. I want to hear your order. Give me your order. You know, but don't. Your order. Yeah. Chappelle, what can the people find from you? Recapkickback.com YouTube.com slash at Recapkickback. Subscribe, all that good stuff and you'll see so much from me. But you got to check it out and follow me on all social media platforms at Recapkickback.

[01:47:53] Well, let me ask Janet Gates, not a lot going on because again, what am I doing? You know, just being a mom. Fighting life. Yeah, but this is fun to be a human being and talk about Survivor and all these thoughts that I've had just like pent up in me for a month. So, so fun to get to do that. So thank you so much. Thank you to our team behind the scenes. Thank you to everyone for listening and I will see you, I don't know when. All right, bye. Bye.