Survivor AU: Redemption Caleb Beeby Deep Dive

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[00:01:59] The adventure of a lifetime. Hi, everybody. Mike Bloom here. Getting you ready for the final Australian Survivor Redemption Deep Dive. We've had a few very fun chats with Keely, with Mark, with Simon, but we are truly going out with a bang because this man guaranteed the season will go out with a bang with some of his wild decisions.

[00:02:25] It is the wild man himself, Caleb Beebe, the winner of Australian Survivor Redemption.

[00:02:32] So much great stuff from Caleb. He was able to provide a lot of really great insights as to the thinking he had from those early days of being on the outs and watching returning players controlling the votes to being able to flip said vote on those returnees to truly take control of these underdogs, newbies, even amidst an incredibly back and forth pandemonium filled post-merge.

[00:03:00] Culminating in him making, still I think weeks later, one of the most shocking individual decisions I have ever seen on Survivor in him taking out his closest ally laws at the final three. But it was all in pursuit of that $500,000 prize, which he was able to take home. And spoiler alert, he has put it to very good use.

[00:03:27] We get into that and so much more over the course of Caleb's 45 days, over the course of a little bit more than two hours in this very podcast. I just want to put something at the top here because, as I mentioned before, again, this is the last deep dive we're doing. Ergo, this is the last podcast that we'll be doing on Australian Survivor Redemption. So I have heaps of gratitude to throw everybody's way towards the end of the podcast.

[00:03:54] But I also want to start it off with a bit of gratitude as well, because I've said it before. I'll keep saying it. This was a ridiculous amount of fun to cover. A lot of it was trying to come in each and every day and make sense of the madness that had befolded over our eyes. But I had the best team trying to figure it out alongside me.

[00:04:23] Special shout out to the fellow recap uncles in Chappelle, in Pouya for keeping the fort down, as well as all of the Survivor AU alumni who were able to come on as well and give their thoughts on the season, as well as yet another chaotic episode. Special thanks to everyone behind the scenes at RHAP for making sure that these podcasts came out in a timely manner, especially considering how many of them.

[00:04:47] They worked Channel 10 for giving me access to exit interviews to get the chance to talk with all these fantastic players, the players themselves, not only for those fantastic chats, but also for just creating one hell of a season. But of course, the biggest thanks is reserved for the one and only Shannon Gus. I know this podcast is your child. Now I was given an extended amount of babysitting time.

[00:05:14] I hope I was able to put it to bed at a reasonable time. Not stuffed with too many sweets, I hope, at the end of the day. But I had such a sweet time getting to cover this and I hope you all enjoyed it as well with the various insights we were offering. So I just wanted to put that out at the very top. Again, seriously, from the bottom of my heart.

[00:05:35] It's seasons like this that just make me feel like I have one of the best jobs in the world and I wouldn't have it without people like you all out there sitting down every day to try to have me and other people talk through what the hell we just watched. So someone who might be able to provide some context to what the hell we just watched is Caleb Beebe.

[00:06:03] Here is my final deep dive, my interview with the winner of Australian Survivor Redemption. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to RHAP's coverage of Australian Survivor Redemption. My name is Mike Bloom and there is but one podcast left in our coverage of this truly wild season.

[00:06:26] And I'm here talking to perhaps the wildest of them all as there is one sole podcast remaining. And it makes sense that we're talking with the sole survivor of Australian Survivor Redemption. He's here to talk about how he left his stamp on the season. I'm not talking about that scary face he drew on every vote that he cast throughout the season. It is the one, the only Caleb Beebe. Woo! Hello, everybody. It's good to be here. I'm happy to be here as well.

[00:06:54] The first thing I want to ask is I was doing some cursory research here. Did you know there is a Big Brother winner, like your name is Coco Beebe, that has the same last name as you? Dude, how crazy is that? So after I won, she actually reached out to me and she said the most classic one-liner. She's like, are we related? I'm like, you're asking the real questions here. But yeah, I don't know. We've both got blue eyes. We've both got the kind of tan skin. So who knows? There's a very real chance we could be.

[00:07:23] Well, listen, you are welcomed officially into the Survivor family, even if it's not the Beebe family overall. But what have things been like for you, Caleb? I mean, obviously it's been a few weeks. I imagine the check has cleared since then. And have you come down from that high yet or are you still riding this, you know, wild energy from being $500,000 richer? Man, it is certainly a very large high.

[00:07:47] And I am starting to slowly come into grips with the reality that I am Soul Survivor. And look, I'm loving it, right? I haven't let it get to my head or I haven't really, you know, gone crazy or anything like that. I think it's just, yeah, I'm holding the title of Soul Survivor very, very highly. I think it's such an awesome thing to have. And I think now life is starting to go a bit more normal.

[00:08:14] For a little while there, mate, every time I was going to the shops, people were like, oh, you're Caleb from Survivor? It was awesome. It was really cool. But now I'm starting to try to focus back into my studies and stuff like that. So, yeah. You're talking about studies. So were you a student before you came into the show? No, I was a truck driver. Right. And then after the show, I was like, I really want to do more with myself. I want to get out of the truck.

[00:08:41] I want to be, you know, in land and nature. And I've always loved the idea of being a parks ranger. You know, they work towards conservation, making sure that our native species are flourishing and, you know, setting up camera traps, doing things like that. I think that's just right down my alley. So I looked into doing a diploma. And, yeah, that's what I'm doing now. So it's a bit of a redemption story in itself, isn't it?

[00:09:11] That's amazing, man. Congratulations. I mean, certainly, you know, you've talked with me, you know, in certain terms about whether or not you thought you had won in the months of a team. But regardless, like, man, all the power to you to make such a huge shift. I mean, I imagine we'll get into this actually very soon. That one of the reasons why you want to get into Survivor was sort of like that impulse to get out of the truck, whether it be from a monetary perspective or just from a, you know, a willpower perspective.

[00:09:36] And you end up getting both here and pivoting to, I think, even as you're describing it and from what we saw of you, Caleb, honestly, a perfect fit for someone like you. Thank you. Yeah, man. I, um, look, yeah, it does blow my mind how long it took me to even go down this path. Like, Survivor just felt so perfect for me. And, um, I'm so glad that it all just happened the way it did. I couldn't have asked for a better season, really. I'm very, I'm very blessed.

[00:10:04] Yeah, I think a lot of winners say that, that they could not be happier for the season. It all makes sense. Well, let's talk about what got you on the season in the first place, Caleb. Yeah. Because I'm curious, what was your history with Survivor up to this point? How much had you seen prior to you deciding that you wanted to be involved in it some way? So, like, I was that kid, um, that had watched bits and pieces on TV. And then they just, there went a long period of not thinking of any kind of reality TV for ages.

[00:10:34] And a friend of mine told me that she'd sent a bunch of my videos because she went to apply. And so she sent some videos out and I obviously didn't think much of it. And, um, I got a call from, uh, Sophie in recruitment and she's like, here's the application. We thought it was great. You know, do a little video, stuff like that. But I had no idea that a guy like me would ever even have a opportunity to look that.

[00:11:00] And so I run, I'm at, I'm bouncing around out of the truck going like saying some stupid stuff. I think I was saying like, if you guys take me on, I'm going to make you so much money, blah, blah, blah. Like after that, I've heard people like, you know, they sit down and they plan this most amazing video. There's me looking like a total bogan, right? In the middle of Foster on some like footy field.

[00:11:23] And yeah, it just, it happened to, it happened to be what they wanted because I think a good thing that they want to see is people being able to hold conversation and talk. You know, nobody wants a player who gets asked like by the host, how was your night? And then you sit there like, yeah, it was okay. You know, even if you had a good night, they want to hear about the crabs that were running over everybody and you know how bad the storm was. So yeah, just, just go wild.

[00:11:50] I reckon that's my bit of advice is just, yeah, talk and go as crazy as you can. And it either works for you or it doesn't. Well, to that point, I am curious. Is that energy and that volume that you brought into the confessionals? Is that the real you Caleb? Or did you feel like you were sort of exaggerating while you were on those beaches talking to the camera? Look, Mike, I find myself yelling constantly when I'm excited, right? My whole life has been consisted of- You're a man after my own heart, Caleb. I very much feel you there.

[00:12:18] We can probably hear you from opposite sides of the globe right now. I know. It's crazy. But yeah, I think I find myself being really quiet and reserved when I'm not having the best day, right? And you can tell so easily if I'm in a good mood or if I'm in a bad mood because of how my energy is either at 100 or it's at 5. You know?

[00:12:44] So seeing me being my loud, brash self, 90% of the game is a good sign because it means that I was having fun. Well, yeah, to that point, when you find out that all of these videos submitted by friends and, you know, crowing in the field had gotten you into the field of players on Survivor, was there any prep that you did? Did you watch any seasons in anticipation? I did. I smashed out.

[00:13:10] Like, when I found out that I was actually going to be going on, I smashed out a few seasons. And then I'm like, man, this show is good as. Like, there's no other game. I'm glad you figured that out after you found out you were getting on. Yeah. Well, because this whole time leading up to it, I was still convincing myself, don't get excited, Caleb. This is not going to happen. Like, don't tell anyone. Don't let it get to your head.

[00:13:35] And so I didn't even want to watch it because I would have been too upset if I didn't get on. So when I got the call, Caleb, you're going. I was like, ah, I need to watch them Survivor. And so I smashed out a few seasons and it was wild because, like, I loved the season of Simon and George going at each other. I thought that was crazy. Excuse me. I thought that was so good. And then I watched Mark's season.

[00:14:02] And as I was in the Uber going to the airport, I remember watching my phone of the episode. I put it in my pocket and I walk into the airport and there's Mark sitting right there. And there's Simon getting his ticket. I was like, oh, no. How am I ever going to win? Oh, my God. Well, yeah, I want to hear that. What was sort of your first reaction? Because obviously this was all a lot of new experiences for you. But obviously as someone is, as we'll get into, one of the most vocal to be anti-returnee early on.

[00:14:31] How did your sort of, you know, calculus as to how you would play change once you found out, OK, there's going to be some sort of level of returnees alongside me? Yeah. Oh, look, Mike. I just could not ever see. And it was for a while there. It was probably nearly getting up to merge. I saw no light in my tunnel of a winning because I was just constantly around people who I just saw playing an amazing game.

[00:15:00] I was constantly talking with Keely and I could see how she had a grip on the game. I could obviously, I was working alongside Mark, so I knew what he was doing. And I was watching Brooke play a quiet but strategically mastermind of a game. And in my head, I knew. I knew straight away from the first or second day, Caleb, these people have to go. They have to go. And I'm watching other people in my camp and in the other tribe want to work with them, right?

[00:15:30] And I go, if we work with them, they're going to figure out how to sit next to us in the end and they're going to beat us. So why, why are we working with returnees? Because they're so much better. And that was when I got called over to do that big double tribal council. I was just saying, guys, like we are in a position here in tribal council, which is getting us closer to winning. We should be happy to be going to tribal council because it means we can get out the powerhouses.

[00:16:00] But some people just didn't want to listen. And I think Jackson was one of those people who just wanted to work with these returnees. And like props to him, man. It got him to final two. But yeah, I couldn't do it. All right. Well, let's rewind to the beginning here in these first few days, as you were mentioning, where you're sort of getting your bearings of not only the people, but also your surroundings. And look, you have been built up sort of this entire series, especially in the latter portion as like you are the Bear Grylls. You are the nature, man. This is your playground.

[00:16:29] So talk to me about that. Did that come as a surprise to you? Like, did you find yourself a natural survivalist out there? Yeah, I think I found out two things. I love the outdoors and I would also be terrible on alone because like survival was hard enough. But I think it was a bit of a gift and a curse being in Baron because it made you learn you have to build shelter. And it taught me heaps of little tricks that might have happened towards the end of the game.

[00:17:00] But like, look, it was hard, obviously, going onto a beach and a lot of the best players, they have a strategy where they don't help. Yeah. Building shelter. Literally, that was Mark. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I remember George saying the same thing as well. Like, you need to focus on your social game rather than building shelter. I had no idea about all of these little manipulation moves. So I'm standing out on the beach.

[00:17:27] Day one, it's probably like five o'clock and I know how bad sleeping on sand is, right? It just sucks the warmth right out of you. And me and Don were like the only two at the start who were trying to get that train moving. I'm like, man, it's going to get dark pretty quick. And if we don't have any kind of shelter or anything like that, tonight's going to be grim. Granted, no one slept in that shelter anyway the first night. Be like, we, no one was sleeping, right?

[00:17:53] It was, it was a pretty shocking few first nights, but it was still fun trying to. And I think another thing that's good about being on Baron and having to make shelter and stuff, you kind of see who's a team player and who isn't. You kind of grow, you kind of see whose people characters are. Like, you know, when the chips are down and you have to kind of band together. Like Ben was good. He was swinging the machete.

[00:18:19] He was, he watched me pull a tree down and was like, this guy is a loose unit. So like, it took a while for me to like warm up to Ben because straight away he's like, nah, there's a liability. Get him away. But yeah, I think it's good because when you don't have that, when you have a shelter that's already made, the only thing left to do is to stretch it, you know? And you can, people aren't their true self in a stretcher.

[00:18:43] So you really see whose people's personalities are when you guys got to like make a home. Well, which are some of those personalities that you were connecting with early on in those first couple days? Who were you? It seems like Ben is not in this camp, but who are you vibing with the most among your Baron tribe members? Yeah, look, I, from day one, I was close with Don and Blanche. Those two straight away became like a friend out there.

[00:19:10] And, you know, like being, having a friend in Survivor is having everything, right? But, um, so yeah, me and Blanche warmed up to each other straight away. She was really good. She was just like someone who I know back home. You know what I mean? Someone so easy to have a conversation with. Someone who's also just ready to listen because everyone has a hard time out there and everyone wants to tell you about how bad your hard time is. And she was always, yeah, an ear, an ear to listen.

[00:19:39] And Don, he, um, he was so good. He just never stopped. He was either making like, you know, clothes racks for us, or he was making something to put over the fire to keep it. Yeah. Coals are lit when it was cold and rainy. So he was pretty awesome, man. I remember one time watching him just burn himself out and Blanche being like, Don, you need to sit down because you're doing too much.

[00:20:06] And he was just like, but yeah, he was a real go getter around camp. You know, what they never showed is me and Kat were actually really getting along. I really liked Kat and I really wanted to work with her. And it just so happened that Mark didn't want to do it. And I just couldn't at that early stage of the game, I couldn't go against the majority alliance because straight away, you're going to put yourself in a bad position.

[00:20:33] So it really sucked when Mark kind of changed that tribal council from Johnson to Kat, because I was like, I can work with this woman. She's really cool. And yeah, she had to go home. Well, let's get into this first vote. Now I'm curious because Mark had told me that this Cornship Cartel Mafia, whatever you want to say, really started forming like on the very first night. And this is going to begin, obviously, a very eventful relationship you have with Mark.

[00:21:02] How valid is that? Were you actually approaching Mark on the very first night being like, all right, let's lock in. Let's do this. Yeah, no. So what happened was I was laying in on the ground, pitch black, couldn't see nothing. And I was actually laying next to Brooke and we're hearing Don and Mark laughing, coming down from near the water. And I think she goes like, that is a really weird duo, a duo that we never saw coming.

[00:21:30] And I'm like, look, I've got to get in on this. I want to be a part of the weird duo. So I just run down there and introduce myself and lay next to Don. And, you know, he asked me that real iconic, weird question. And this is night one when nobody really knows each other. And he goes, hey, Junior, do you like corn chips? And I was thinking to myself, like, what a weird thing to say. But I'm hungry. I didn't have any dinner. I'm starving.

[00:21:58] So, yeah, I like corn chips. And he's like, oh, that's good to know. That's good to know. Mike goes, we're kind of making a bit of an alliance right here. And I was like, I just remember feeling like an angelic vibe coming down from the heavens. Like, I've actually got something I might be able to work with here. And, yeah, I remember we all shook hands. And that corn chip cartel, like, you know, one of those members won.

[00:22:27] So we were so, we were tight as. And what I love is that neither me, Mark, or Don, like, we never got Don out. Don never voted for us. I obviously voted Mark out. But, like, yeah, we stayed tight for a long time. Well, this is also, from the beginning, positioning of a double agent, Caleb. Something you're going to talk about from day one all the way to day 45 here.

[00:22:56] And it seems like there are two camps, right? It is Mark and the various alliances he has. And then it's Johnson and Friends, I think, is the alliance that they officially coined themselves as. So how did you get in with that group in particular? So, yeah, I realized that Mark needed to go from day one. Like, because I could see his grip on the tribe. So I was always, always open to getting Mark out, right? And I was vocal about that to Johnson and Friends, right?

[00:23:27] So I had, I was close with Blanche, like I said, right? So I would tell Blanche everything. She was one of the rare characters that knew my secret game and my open game, right? There's not many people that saw straight through me like a bloody window, but she did. And I was always telling her, like, I'm ready to get Mark out as soon as the numbers are there, right? She, Blanche and Johnson were always, always in the works to get Mark out.

[00:23:56] And I always had my foot in that door. So they knew that as soon as that window opens, they've got my vote. But they just never felt like a strong enough group to actually take it out. And so to keep myself safe and to keep Mark in a strong trust with me, I was constantly leaking him the information from that camp, right?

[00:24:18] So in doing that, I kind of had both information of Mark's movements and Johnson and Ben and Blanche's and Tez, all of their movements. So basically I could decide wherever I want to fall to. And it was basically who started to look stronger. Whoever started to grow more muscle in the game, that's where I was going to put myself because that's what you got to do.

[00:24:41] And in doing that, I created this Operation KBC of like, yeah, I'm playing a dangerous game if one finds out, but I can do it in a cautious way. Was there a point in especially those early days where you were going back and forth across two alliances when you got caught, when someone was finding out the double dealings you were doing? Yeah, Blanche.

[00:25:29] Nah, I'm giving him the wrong information. But yeah, I think I remember once Mark went home, she's like, that was my move. And I'm like, what? She's like, I wanted to get Mark out from the start. Right. I remember she told that to people after he had gone. Yeah. I was just thinking we all did. We all did. I just so happened to be the bullet in the barrel. But yeah, there was a few times I got pulled up and another person, Keely. Keely knew what I was doing, right? She knew.

[00:26:00] And she just, again, why she wanted to get me out from day one, because she knew that I was secretly under the cover playing the game. And it just goes, it's testimony to her game. She wanted to get out, you know, the person who ended up winning. Well, you were a bullet in the barrel, but you were shot out of a cannon, practically, when you end up going to this big tribal council as a visitor. Mind you, you were chosen by Aja. Like, I like your vibe. And you brought a vibe to that tribal council. So talk to me about that.

[00:26:30] Were you intending to bring this energy? Or was that more so inspired by you when you sat down and you actually saw what these people were doing? No, that was completely... I rehearsed everything that I was going to say before I went there, right? If anything, I was nervous. Because you're sitting around a camp who you don't know. A tribe you haven't really met. You only see them on the other side of the map.

[00:26:54] And so when we went back to our tribe in Barron, I was pacing up and down the beach rehearsing because I had this one little bit of opportunity to introduce myself, state my game, right? This was a make or break moment for me. That's how it felt. It was either I'm going to burn my game in a spectacular way or I'm actually going to do something here that's going to work well for me.

[00:27:23] So, yeah, I was pacing the beach and Blanche again came up to me and goes, are you okay, Caleb? Because I was clearly going over something in my head. And I go, yeah, I'm just trying to rehearse what I'm going to say tonight because I've got this window to really come out and tell the underdogs how important it is to get out the returnees. And I don't want to just come and start talking like an idiot. I've got to have some proper, yeah, something worth saying.

[00:27:52] And I remember even just going there, constantly going over in my head about what I was going to say about, yeah, does Simon really deserve another car? Does Harry deserve my 500 grand? And did that work well for me targeting people out? Not really. I saw a lot of daggers from Simon the next few days. But, yeah, I remember at one point screaming to the sky.

[00:28:21] It's the year of the underdogs. Like, dude, my speech went for like half an hour. It was very quickly edited. But I went for ages. Oh, my God. Did Loss give you any insights? Because Loss was brought over as the visitor. Did she give you any sort of perspective as to like, okay, here's who's on the outs. Here's who you should call out. She, so me and Mark interrogated her pretty hard that day, which was cool. It kind of felt like, are we big players in this tribe right now?

[00:28:51] I loved it. But so she told me that they're kind of wanting to get Harry out. And that's all I needed to hear. A returnee on the chopping board? Mate, that's all I got to know. Because now I have some fuel and some ammo to actually do this year of the underdog speech that I kind of wanted to get past. Because we had kind of come off the bat of Mark controlling our tribal council. And I was scared that that's going to happen all the time now, right? And I didn't want that happening on Bouncy either.

[00:29:19] So I wanted it to be very clear that the returnees have a grip that needs to be unclenched. And I was able to use the fuel of Harry to really, you know, light a fire in some players' hearts. I didn't really need you because they had players like Lottie who was already running the show.

[00:29:45] But yeah, I think coming out in a chaos way kind of, again, made people underestimate me. Because they kind of just put me on the, here's a wild card. He doesn't really know what he's doing. But at the same time, it also started a little bit of a food for thought of maybe, you know, we should band together and get these people out. Talk to me more about that. Obviously, you said that Simon did not take too kindly to the things you were declaring.

[00:30:13] But like, did you feel like some of the other newbies, underdogs were going along with what you were telling them? Look, it was hard at the start to read because a lot of people were like, who the heck is this guy? So whether or not they were on board or they were like, I know Asher might have been thinking like, what have I done bringing this guy? But no, I had their, I had, I was going to vote for them, whoever they told me to vote, because they invited me over.

[00:30:41] But I think after a couple of days, it really started to, you know, become, become an alliance. And that alliance, it was easy to run with, especially after pre-merge, because, well, they, everybody knew my game. I played such an open game that everyone knew who, what the plan is if they work with me. It's to get out the best players. And I ran with that same game until the end.

[00:31:12] Well, to that point, that's something you also declare, speaking of being perhaps a little too open, when you get back at camp, you're like, here are all the things I said about how we need to get rid of the returnees. When you have two returnees on your tribe, it seems like we see you trying to save a little bit of face the next day. But what was that like for you? Was it like immediate regret once you realized that maybe you had said too much in that moment?

[00:31:34] Look, going to tribal council, it's almost like you're, you're drunk and then you have to pay with what comes out of your mouth the next day. Right. I remember Loz saying she, she has like tribal council hangovers, right? It's such a real thing. It might just be because you're so adrenaline is through the roof. But I remember coming back to the camp or as well, I remember being like, Oi, oi, oi, we did this, we did this.

[00:32:04] And in my excitedness, I stood in the pot that had a little bit of rice and beans left for me, which was my dinner. And I just put so much dirt in there. And I was spewing because I was just trying to eat mouthfuls of dirt and it just wasn't working. But yeah, I remember going on no, because this is clearly going to come out tomorrow at the challenge of like, Oh, Caleb said he wants to get out all the returnees. And I'm like working alongside Mark and Brooke.

[00:32:33] So I was nervous of like Dave saying, so Caleb, last night you said you want to get out the returnees. And I was just going to crumble into a million pieces, but that never really came up. So I had to say before anyone else did, I thought if it comes out of my mouth first, then at least they're not hearing it from other people. I go, guys, last night I tried to get Harry out. And so I had to say like, we need to get out returnees.

[00:33:01] But obviously I was just saying that to get Harry. Because I felt like if it comes out of me and they hear about why I was saying, I want to get out returnees, maybe it won't sound as bad if it comes from Simon the next day. Or it comes from someone who doesn't really like me. Right. Because you can kind of flip that and make me look really bad. So I thought if I get in there first, then maybe I can have a better chance of saying why I said that, even though I genuinely wanted to get rid of them.

[00:33:29] But yeah, they were like, don't worry about it. It's all good. Oh, good. Well, you end up making a return versus Tribal Council very quickly. And this is when you ultimately choose a side in this Mark versus Johnson war. But I think the more interesting thing to talk about, Caleb, is that for the first and certainly not the last time, your name is being thrown out by Faith, by Keely, by Sally. Did you get word of any of this? Ultimately, the plan doesn't end up going through whatsoever.

[00:33:59] But did you know your name was being talked about by some people that day? No, I didn't. Like, here's the thing, OK? In my head towards the end of the game, I was thinking like, I have played this immaculate game. I dodged, you know, I'd never had my name banter. And then I watched it back on the edit and I was nearly going home all the time. So that was a bit of an eye opener and a bit of a, you know, come down off your high horse a bit, Caleb.

[00:34:27] Yeah, I had no idea I was so close to going home all the time. And it just goes to show how lucky I was choosing to decide to work with Mark and Brooke because really it was Brooke that kind of shut that vote down. I think Brooke saw me as a vital number, especially at the start. You want to have as many numbers in your camp as you can. And she was like, you know, it doesn't make sense to get Caleb out right now because he's kind of working with us.

[00:34:57] And I'm lucky because if I hadn't have done that double agent game and working with them and if I was just on Johnson's side, mate, I would have gone that night. I would have gone. So thank you, Brooke. Well, listen, exercising your options is going to come in handy the next day because after Johnson leaves, you shuffle things up and you are now a bounty tribe member for the foreseeable future. What was your first take in this group?

[00:35:24] Because you have someone like Mark who you're working closely with. Maybe you didn't realize that the three people that were targeting you the day before were also on that tribe. But what was sort of like your sense of where you stood in that new bounty tribe in the first couple of days? So, Mark, Mike, I hate change. I just hate change. And so I really, really didn't want to leave. But that is wild coming from a man who self-appointingly dictated himself like Caleb Chaos. And he's like, don't like change, though.

[00:35:55] I know. I mean, yeah, that's so true. But like I just had everything where I wanted it in Baron. Like I had my little bit of debt that I would sleep on. I had my rocks that I would position right to catch crabs. And I had my spears. And so everything, like as much as I love chaos, I also love order. I'm a big oxymoron.

[00:36:21] And then so I really didn't want to go over to the other tribe. And I knew that Faith didn't like me. We had never seen eye to eye. So I didn't know that I was so actively almost going home, but I knew that she didn't want me in the game. Right.

[00:36:38] And so when I went over to like Bounty, I wasn't stoked about it because I could see Mark go from pretty much running the tribe to now being under the girls' govern. And Mark being under the girls' govern is not good for my game because it's only one word of mouth trying to keep me in the game.

[00:37:02] The only thing I had going from my side was a couple of old bounties, which was Rich and Lindell. I thought, well, but even then, I still didn't feel exactly very safe. So it was kind of, I think the whole tribe swap going to, yeah, Bounty was probably the worst part of the game for me, actually.

[00:37:27] Well, you certainly got comfortable, though, almost immediately because you show up at the next challenge looking a little different. Caleb wearing a little bit of a different wardrobe, perhaps. So before we get into Jackson's reaction, and assumingly how this kicks off an entire crusade that culminates in you two sitting against each other in the end, were you just like looking at Harry's stuff and you're like, OK, I'll dig in the knife even more. I was the one that yelled that he should get out a few days before.

[00:37:56] Now I'm going to wear his clothes to, you know, be able to mock the dead. Look, I really went into the mindset of we are killing these people off. Once they're gone, they are deceased. Right? And I will parade around wearing the clothes of the deceased. And like, I just thought it was a joke as well. Right?

[00:38:20] So I remember seeing Harry's T-shirt and thinking like, this is going to be funny as I'm going to put a stick in my mouth. And then as I'm dressing up as Harry, I go, guys, this is funny. Right? And they're like, do it, Caleb. I remember Keely being like, that's really funny, Caleb. You need to do it. Like, I think that is the funniest thing that you could do. And I'm like, all right. Like, stupidly agreeing.

[00:38:46] And yeah, it ended up sparking the hate in many hearts. But yeah, I went around to the producers that day and go, I am not Caleb anymore. I am Dirty Harry. And so I remember seeing like some of the tribe members when producers were like, hey, Dirty Harry, can you do this? And I'd be like, yeah. And people were like, wait, what is going on right now? Special twist. Harry's spirit was able to possess you. That was the big thing that he left the game with.

[00:39:16] That was the true non-elimination twist of the season. I think Dirty Harry was still there. He might have been like out of the game, but the dirtiness of Harry lived on. And it lived on through me. So, yeah. Okay. So did you have any interactions with Jackson whatsoever prior to this? Was this the first time he had said anything to you this entire game? Actually, I had tried to talk.

[00:39:43] Like, dude, I thought Jackson looks like a cool dude. I thought maybe one day we could work together, right? I will give anyone a chance until they do me wrong, right? And I spoke to him the day after Eliza went home. And I'm like, we're on a challenge. And I just went over to him and I'm like, dude, how are you going? And we're like, what's going on over there? He's like, I'm the wrong person to ask. I just got blindsided hard last night.

[00:40:10] So we had had like a little bit of conversation together. But yeah, I think he just saw me and he goes, he's clearly the guy that nobody likes. I'm going to put a knife in him and I want to twist it a bit. And yeah, he went on the attack. All right. Well, as we start getting into the many votes you will cast here on New Bounty, I want to focus on a relationship that we haven't really, you know, doted on yet.

[00:40:38] But we'll definitely come into play, at least in terms of the dynamics you'll have with one particular person. And that is Ted's because we'll see in the next couple of votes like you and Ted's sort of exchanging words, exchanging votes to one another. But when I spoke with Ted's, he actually said that the two of you, you know, we're fairly close out there. So talk to me more about that relationship. Me and Ted's had like a big, big brother, younger brother kind of friendship, right?

[00:41:04] Like I genuinely wanted to see Ted's go far in the game because I could also see him struggling to get something solid, right? He had something solid with Blanche and that was really good. Excuse me. But he also just needed to get on the side of the bigger players. And so I remember giving him my bed one night, right?

[00:41:33] I had made like this nice comfy bed with heaps of leaves and I go to climb in there and there's Tez like asleep in there. I'm like, whatever, I'll go sleep next to Don. And then come Tribe Swap, he lost a lot of his friends. And dude, we were getting along, right? We had this one night where we laid down on the sand and I was just trying to reassure him because I was like, look at Miles on the last season.

[00:42:00] Miles was literally on the bottom for so long and he won. Never give up hope because hope is probably the best thing that you can have in Survivor. Once you lose hope, mate, you lose everything. And we were laying down and we watched so many shooting stars go on and I thought that we really made something solid. And then I hear the next day, oh, Tez is running your name. And I'm like, Tez, what are you doing?

[00:42:27] And so I would just take it so personally when I hear my name come up. And so I just became so hellbent that day of getting rid of Tez. And, you know, we had this big classic war. It didn't happen. And then I remember the next night I kind of just gave up going for Tez. And I said to him, I go, look, mate, if you want to win the game.

[00:42:53] Before that, I said, look, Tez, there's a high chance it's going to go to a fire challenge tonight. You should tell the tribe I'll make fire. And if I make fire and burn the string, I deserve to stay in the game. If I don't, then at least I'd go out trying. Right. So I go, I'm going to sit down and I'll teach you how to make fire. So we sat down and I taught him how to get the pile of magnesium in the coconut husk. And we made fire together.

[00:43:22] And I go, now, the best thing that you can do right now is to tell people I'm not good at Survivor. Okay. I'm not good at Survivor, but I will be your number for a few votes. Rich is good at Survivor. He knows how to manipulate and he'll also backstab. Okay. I go, this is the direction you should go in a scramble right now. Okay. Because if you can convince people to get someone else out, mate, you're surviving. Right. And I thought he was taking it in.

[00:43:51] I thought that I'd given him enough of a chance. You thought you had scraped up like the proverbial magnesium for him to light that spark. Exactly. It didn't sink in. We saw him kind of go out in flames. No pun intended. But yeah. Look, I like Tez. But unfortunately, he just couldn't seem to really, you know, get something solid enough to take him through.

[00:44:14] Well, for what it's worth, you might not find yourself on solid ground in this very first vote at New Bounty because it is a big one. You know, Keeley is whipping up votes at Tribal Council. But even then, Caleb, Don and Mark, your corn ship cartel, leave you out of this Sally vote. You come back, be the only person to cast a vote for Tez. What was your reaction to that? Not only losing Don, who you were close to, but also being left out completely of any plan that was actually going on.

[00:44:44] Yeah, it's never good, is it? It really makes you feel like, man, I am on the bottom here. I could, as much as I don't like to admit it, I could see the cartel. Oh, sorry. I could see the cavalry coming for Don and the cavalry being the girls. Okay. Me and Mark, we were happy living around Don, but I think he was rubbing some of the girls up the wrong way. So as much as it was a surprise because it happened then, I could see it coming.

[00:45:15] Now, they were telling me that, so Don and Mark were telling me that it was all Tez vote tonight. So look, yeah, it wasn't nice because it kind of just was like, I think a lot of the game I felt like I was a bit of a loner. Like I was kind of just playing my own game. And that didn't kind of change until Loz. But yeah, it sucked.

[00:45:41] There was a lot of moments where I was just like, okay, you know, I kind of know what's happening, but do I trust them? Not really. Yeah. So as we get into things like the Lindel vote, the Tez vote for you, was it more so just like go along to get along for lack of a better term as long as it's not me? Well, when Tez went out, I was sure Tez was going. That's why he got the stamp.

[00:46:07] But at the end of the day, like I also was told about the Lindel vote. So look, as much as I was getting used for a number, I was still happy that there was some truth a little bit. You know, they were kind of like feeding me a bit of a carrot on like a stick, just enough for me to be able to, you know, work with him still. But not enough to feel like, oh, yeah, I'm a really strong part of this alliance, aren't I?

[00:46:34] Well, talk to me more about this stamp, because obviously this is going to be part of your brand, perhaps a literal brand on your parchment here. Was this premeditated? Is this like an inside joke or something you brought into the game? Nah, this is just because I think me hearing Tez put my name out was the first time in the game I had heard someone actively gunning for me. And that just sparks this fire in my belly.

[00:47:03] And I was going to rub salt in your wound, you know what I mean? I want this demonic face looking at you as you are going home. And so that's kind of where it started. It was a bit like a laugh beside your name.

[00:47:24] And then I thought to myself, you know, if I know where the votes are going, I'm going to be able to show my game through that. So I started just doing pitches and I started, yeah, I was very actively conscious about showing where I am. You know what I mean? Because I thought, well, at least that'll make a good pitch in the end. And it literally worked for me. So there you go.

[00:47:52] You're able to draw yourself a nice picture in the end as your game the entire time. So as we get into the next week, Mark actually says at one point that, you know, one of the many reasons why he loves working with you, Caleb, is that you struggled to lie. What do you make of that perception? Well, yeah, I think at the start, I was also like, you know, because I've done it before.

[00:48:20] I've been purposely showing that I am bad at lying. So you can think, you know, my tics or my tells, right? It's a good idea to convince people that know your tell because then they think they've got you figured out. So then they can know when you are lying and when you're not. Right.

[00:48:38] So if you do a fake tell of, you know, constantly scratching your face or looking in the corner of your eye, then people think, oh, they've got you down pat and they can read you like a book. So I knew deep down, look, I'm going to be good at, you know, tricking.

[00:48:59] But at the same time, yeah, I guess sometimes right before Mark went home, when I was literally watching him look for an idol, I was sketching out hard. He's just like, Caleb, what's wrong with you? And I was like, oh, who are we voting for tonight? It's Simon. And he's just like, Simon, Simon. So, yeah, that was he could definitely tell I was lying that day.

[00:49:26] Well, listen, I think you brought a lot of that energy, as did everyone on your tribe during this absolutely frantic Redemption Beach vote. You thought things were relatively straightforward with Tez. That would be like the last straightforward vote you make the entire game because you really get thrown into the deep end here. So let's talk about all the energy going into this vote, because actually, this is the moment where you tell us a little bit about your thoughts on Sally. Because, you know, Mark is approaching you, right, saying the plan is Sally.

[00:49:54] You say you actually like Sally. You feel like Sally is a beautiful soul who actually gives you the time of day. So at that point, talk to me a bit more about your relationship with her. Did that connect back to Barrett 1.0? Dude, me and Sally was probably literally one of the closest people I had out there. Wow. They didn't really show it on the show, but night one, we were sitting on the beach. We spoke for hours and hours, right?

[00:50:22] I did welfare checks up on her and she did welfare checks up on me during the game. And, you know, that means everything. That literally means someone is thinking about you and thinking about how you're going. And, like, it's just, yeah, it's such a good feeling having that in the game. And I was not going to be voting Sally out. Mark always wanted Sally out of the game.

[00:50:47] He saw her as a girl who would be able to skate her way to the end, right? He said it's going to be someone who manages to hide in the shadow while all the big players implode on themselves, right? And I didn't want that because I had something good with her. And so when he had come over and be like, oh, I want you to be the swing vote on Sally so it doesn't fall back on him, I just could not let that slide.

[00:51:13] Because Sally's like the girl who I have to, you know, see the next day and try and, oh, I'm sorry, I got manipulated by Mark again. No, no, no, no, no. It's not going to happen. And we also weren't thinking like, oh, there's three of them and there's three of us. Let's do something crazy here. Like, do we want to vote Rich out? Not really. You know?

[00:51:34] So, yeah, I think the relationship of me and Sally is really under edited because I would listen to her and she would listen to me, which in the game of Survivor is massive. It's everything. Power is, like, knowledge is power. But, yeah, at the end of the day, her game, it was hard because I could also see her surviving where she could.

[00:51:58] Like, if someone said to her, like, Sally, you need to drop Caleb or you need to drop, you know, someone close and come to ours, she would preserve her game and do that. So, on a friendship level, I 100% trusted Sally. Sally, on a game level, I was like, oh, this could be dangerous working with Sally. But I'm glad we never had to do that. So, I'm curious. Were you actually trying to go through with this plan to go to Rocks 3 vs. 3 with head office? Or was that just, like, an idea you were throwing out with Sally?

[00:52:28] I was. I 100% was. Okay? I was so ready to get out of the hierarchy. I had said it for the first five episodes, right? Like, I was down to make a big move, but I couldn't do it without the help of Rich or Sally, right? And so, I was convincing them, but it was at a time where they were like, Sally was thinking, you know, that's not the smartest thing for our game right now. But I was like, why? Let's just do it.

[00:52:57] I truly felt like I would have been safe. Well, maybe one of the reasons why Sally was dispensary. Disputing the notion is because she was yet again planning to get you out here. So, unlike the last time, did you catch wind of any of this time where these three were plotting against you? No, but it's hard because you know that they're talking about you, okay? Because that's what you've got to do in every scramble. And you've got to weigh up every possibility.

[00:53:27] I always knew that it was a very real thing that my name was getting bounced down there. Because these girls can pretty much walk around camp and just pick whoever they want. You know what I mean? And so, they're going to try every kind of angle. And so, I knew that they would be saying my name. I knew that other names would be going in the mix. So, it just depended on which one it was going to be getting pulled out of the urn. So, yeah.

[00:53:56] And I guess that can be a bad thing as well. Because if you underestimate your name could, you know, potentially is the real one. Then you might not scramble as hard as you probably should. Well, the bad news is your name was pulled out of the urn. The good news is it's part of this absolutely ridiculous twist that leads to tribal council chaos, to put it mildly. So, I want to hear your perspective on this. Because what we're shown is Sally approaches you and says, We want to actually send all three boys to redemption.

[00:54:26] And then you say, Okay, yeah, let's do that. Then you immediately tell Mark about it. And then you talk with Rich about, Okay, let's actually try to get Sally to go so that we can beat her in a challenge, which you end up doing. So, walk me through this a little bit more. How did your target change over the course of all this frenetic whispering? Yeah, good question. Look, at the start, I was like, if I'm going to go to redemption, it was never a fact of who's going to go.

[00:54:56] Am I going to go to redemption beach? It was who's coming with me to redemption beach? Okay, I knew that one 100%. I remember saying that to Dave. But at the start, I was like, Well, who do I want to have a friend out there? Obviously, Mark, I would like to go and have someone to hang out with. But then I started to think, Caleb, there's a very real chance that you're not going to come home from redemption beach. So, who do you want to beat in redemption beach?

[00:55:25] And look, I love Sally. But I also just thought I might be strategically a bit more shifty and maybe a bit stronger. I knew that I would be better around camp than her. And so then I remember thinking, Well, let's send people to redemption beach that I could beat. And that's when I turned around to Rich and be like, Vote Sally. I'm going to vote Sally because I think that I can have one up.

[00:55:53] And it was so, so perfect of him voting Keely just to see the smug look on her face. Did he tell you anything about that? Or you just told him I'm voting Sally and he goes, Okay, and then throws a wild card in there. Yeah. Look, I think that happened just because we had just been getting told by Faith and by Mark who to vote for. And it was just like, I'm sick of it. Okay. I'm sick of getting told where and what I can do. And so I voted.

[00:56:22] I was told to vote Rich that night. Right. I was told to put Rich's name down. But because I didn't want to just listen to who to get told to vote for again, I was like, I'm going to vote Sally because I want to beat her. And he probably felt the same thing of like, I'm going to vote who I want to vote. And he voted Keely and it couldn't have gone any better because they were banking on me voting Rich. That's how the votes all got screwed like that because they weren't expecting me to put Sally down.

[00:56:51] They expected me to have another name on Rich. And if I'd put Rich down, he would have gone. Well, you end up getting perhaps a couple of people that you were excited to see alongside you, but perhaps not an environment you were excited to be in. Even for an outdoorsman such as yourself. What was it like spending that night and day in the hell that was Redemption Beach? Oh, look. Tribal Council finishes really late at night. Yeah. You're walking out of tribal at like 12, right?

[00:57:20] And it's freezing. It's cold. You don't know what's going on. We get to this rock, right? It's pitch black. There's some trees around and you can hear water flowing in like a 360 radius. I'm like, where the heck are we? And it was like you've just landed in like some barren desert or the moon with these craters everywhere.

[00:57:49] And I'm like, hold up. These are like coconut crab holes. And there's been talk about coconut crabs of like biting people's fingers off and, you know, doing all this crazy stuff. I also was like, yes, I'm the only guy here, which means I'm just going to do and say whatever I want. And so then I start telling them like horror stories and start telling them about ghosts. And I'm like, we should be like a pirate group right now. We should call ourselves the Rocks Pirates.

[00:58:18] And the girls are like, no. And then at least they did go along with the name. So we called Redemption Beach. We called it Point Nemo, right? Because Point Nemo is the most isolated place in the whole world, right? So Point Nemo is a little rock in the middle of the ocean. And the International Space Station is closer to Point Nemo than a landmass is, right? So, yeah, it's full on.

[00:58:47] So we called our little camp Point Nemo. So I started freaking myself out because like we started hearing all these weird noises and I'm like, what is going on? And then we lay down on the dirt because it's like we're not going to do anything tonight. It's late as. So we lay down and the heavens open up, Mike.

[00:59:07] It was like it rained so hard that night and we just got each other's clothes and like put them over our face to stop it beating down on your face. And it was it was an experience I'll never forget. So did that bring the three of you together in any way, either personally or strategically going through all that together and surviving, obviously, to become three of the final five? Look, I felt like we were already pretty tight people.

[00:59:37] Remember, I didn't know how Keely truly felt about me. I didn't know she wanted me out of the game. So I thought that me and her had always been solid. Right. And I was obviously solid with Sally. And like me and Sally said the first thing next morning, I voted for you. She voted for me. Let's forget about it. I was talking to Sally saying, obviously, we're going to get out Keely. I was talking with Keely saying, obviously, we're going to get out Sally. They were doing the same thing. You see that classic scene of Keely going, Caleb, go get us some crabs.

[01:00:07] So I was like, yeah, OK. And then obviously they're talking about me. But we had a really fun time out there on Redemption. Like we made a great shelter. The girls started weaving straight away to make it waterproof.

[01:00:24] I made a really solid frame with like some like some stumps that I found and I put them under the frame as support so we could have as much weight on the roof as we wanted, which means more weight and more leaves means more waterproof. We had husks hanging off it. I had a massive pile of cut wood. I was found driftwood and I would cut it with the machete. So we had this massive pile of cut wood. Mate, it was the best.

[01:00:51] Yeah, pretty, pretty damn good for like barely being there for a day. Yeah. So luckily, though, it's not for long. You end up making your way quickly back to camp. And this is when Operation Wave starts rolling in like the tide. Right. So how did this come about? You know, did this come as a surprise to you when Mark approached you? Had you been trying to stoke the flames again to turn on Faith at some point?

[01:01:18] No, because I was scared that if I was going to start throwing Faith's name out, it was going to come back to her. But I really went in back to camp with the weight of the world on my shoulders. I knew that I was stepping out of the front pan and going into the fire. Right. But first thing I said when I stepped out on the beach was, I'm sorry, I'm not Keely. Because I just felt daggers getting shot at me everywhere.

[01:01:41] But then Mark gave me this lifeline saying he wants to get Faith out because Faith and Keely had started having these chats and leaving him out. And that was literally, if that move hadn't happened, I would not have lasted in the game. I truly believe that. So that was a grace from God. And yeah, I remember thinking like, Mark, thank you so much for this.

[01:02:07] And I obviously threw the next challenge to go to tribal council because I knew how important it was to get Faith out for my game. So I threw it. She threw the challenge trying to get me out. Me and Faith told each other on the mat, let's throw it because we had both said it's going to get Rich out. So we're both clearly throwing it to get each other out. And she happened to go home.

[01:02:33] What was it like getting to do that throat slit right to her face? So let's go back. When we lose the challenge and we go to a scramble, I didn't want her thinking that I knew I was okay. So I was pretending I was sad. I was moping around camp. I was going, Faith, can we have a little chat on the beach? And she's like, oh my gosh.

[01:03:00] You know, I was like, is there anything that we can do? Are we really going Rich? Caleb, it's Rich. Just because I wanted to do some acting. I wanted to be an actor. And then, so I couldn't tell her. Literally, right? The whole game, I couldn't show Faith how I truly felt. Faith had no idea how much I really disliked her.

[01:03:23] And so me doing that throat split, the throat slit was just how I truly felt right all the way to the end. I was just like, you are so out of here, Faith. And it was like the first time I could show my true colors to that woman. It was so nice. Now, on the other hand, did you feel like Keely was looking at you a certain way? Obviously, I think Mark was the bigger person to deal with in terms of how blindsided she felt.

[01:03:52] But now that you have been able to take out one of her, her number one ally, do you feel like that changed your relationship at all? No. I didn't have Keely in my mind really at all. I kind of saw her. Look, honestly, I'm going to say it, right? I saw her as a passenger in the Returnee Alliance. I didn't actually see her making moves, not until a bit later.

[01:04:16] I saw her making moves with Faith, but at the start of the game, I was just like, oh, she's just using the Returnee as a shield. So I guess I was a bit blinded by my own naive, you know, thought with Keely because obviously I saw her become a big player in Bounty. But like at that time, I was just like, oh, her main ride or die is gone now. And she's got Mark and I'm close with Mark. So I don't care how I act now.

[01:04:46] Yeah. Well, the good news is you have a bunch of other fresh faces as well. So it's understandable if you were a bit distracted because you get to the merge and now there's a whole slew of people that you get to interact with. It's the perfect time for you to make some new friendships. And so talk to me about what were some of those immediate bonds that were formed? The two people I straight away wanted to work with was Lottie and Cam, right?

[01:05:10] But Lottie, because we had been giving each other looks across the mat of like, we're going to work, right? And she was the one to tell you where to vote at that one Bounty Tribal Council you went to. Correct. I owed her that. There was times when we were on the mat and she had given me a bit of information and I had given her a bit of information about what's going on. So she did have a bit of trust in me.

[01:05:37] So straight away, I knew she was going to be my – and people, none of them knew why we were close, right? People – that's why I got left out of the Lottie bag because they go like, there's something weird between Caleb and Lottie. Like, why are they friends? Like, how did that even happen? But it just happened through body language. Body language is a huge language in Survivor. If you can read people's body language and feel either the warmthness or the coldness from someone, it'll help.

[01:06:05] Because, again, the mouth is not saying the truth. The eyes and the body language is where the truth comes out from. And I just knew that me and her were going to work. And again, with Cam, Cam was a cool dude. I knew he had a bit of a mouth and I wanted to work with that as well. I thought he was a funny-ass guy. And straight away, he starts telling me about the dynamics that happened back on Baron when he was there. And, yeah, we made a little alliance. He had a tattoo of a rapper called Gucci.

[01:06:36] So I'm like, oh, I know that rapper. Let's have it, the Gucci alliance. So, like, I was trying to put my fingers in every pie. But, yeah, it was fun. Well, you got to reunite with Blanche as well. This comment that said the two of you were the showmates of the season. Look, man, there was a lot of cold nights, right? We would cuddle up at night. But when I was in Bounty, Faith and Keely had been like, you're not allowed to talk with Blanche. You're not allowed to work with her.

[01:07:05] She is now the enemy. And so I was like, look, it's probably best of my interest to, like, go along with that right now. Even though I was like, bullcrap, I'm going to still hang out with her. But I did have to, like, you know, take a bit of the back foot. I also had some chats with her. And I just didn't see her have the most accurate grasp of what's going on.

[01:07:33] And I thought, like, Blanche, I love your personality. We have great chats. We make each other laugh. But as far as game goes, I might need to start pulling my way a little bit from her because she might become a bit of a liability to my game. But, yeah, look, I worked with her. And, you know, I remember saying to Blanche, instead of lying to you, I'm going to stop talking to you.

[01:07:58] And so I literally did that for a few days where I'm just like, I'm just not going to come and chat with you because if I do, I'm going to have to lie. And I think she ended up respecting that. Oh, well, unfortunately, while, you know, you had her during those cold nights, you'll be left out in the cold in this very first merge vote, in this Lottie vote.

[01:08:17] So I'm curious, especially in retrospect, were there any sort of signs that you picked up over the course of the day that this Jackson plan wasn't happening the way you and Lottie wanted it to be? It was hard. I just I wanted to put my faith in Lottie. I am. To be honest, I thought that Blanche is going to be blindsided. Right.

[01:08:40] Because of all the talk of how, you know, Mark and Keely and then Keely was working with Simon and Brooke and they didn't really like Blanche's game. And so I thought in my head, it's either going to be Blanche or it's going to be Jackson. You know what I mean? But turns out I was a bit blindsided there. Did that affect the way that you looked at people like Mark or others who had left you in the dark?

[01:09:08] Because, I mean, again, it's it was a pretty big vote for, you know, nearly everyone in the game. And granted, things will change almost immediately. But it's got to be tough to be left out of the first vote of the merge. Look, that, again, shaped my game. Right. If that hadn't happened, if I hadn't been blindsided, I probably still would have continued to work with returnees. And I might have found myself blindsided and voted off.

[01:09:37] So as bad as it felt at the time, I remember getting back to Canton. You all lied to me. Blah, blah, blah. Carrying on like a pork chop. But it still shaped my game because it made it made me into a vigilante. I wanted to go out there and snipe all of them out. Right. That was like, I am done now. I am never going to work with Brooke. I'm never going to work with Keely. I'm never going to work with Mark. I'm going to pretend and smile and lie to their face.

[01:10:05] But in my heart, you guys have completely lost me. Right. I was now a fully fledged underdog. Well, that comes at the perfect time because this is when seemingly called the underdogs, the newbies, the revolution, whatever. You're a part of it. So how did this end up forming? You know, from our perspective, this felt very Ben led.

[01:10:28] Was that the case or was it more so kind of the point you made all the way back in the Harry Travel Council coming forward of everyone being like, yeah, we can't let any of these people get to the end? Look, Ben was certainly starting a militia group. Right. I didn't really believe it. I thought that this was a bluff on me to see if I was still strong with Mark or not. Right.

[01:10:53] So I thought I blew my old game up being like, yeah, I'm willing to vote Mark out if it happens. But they also wanted to get look the whole I think we wanted to get Mark out at the start. And then I heard Simon's name coming up. Right. And I was on board with Simon as well. So, look, at the end of the day, I had I didn't really believe anything that was going on. Right.

[01:11:21] And that's why I just started doing my feeding different names to people, because I knew that Mark wanted Ben out, but he also was happy to go Simon. Right. Because that's what he was telling me. OK. Ben started wanting to go Mark and then he was on board with the Simon vote. And so I didn't know what to do or where to go. And I think me spreading the wrong names just happened because I didn't really know what was going on. Right.

[01:11:49] And I was just like, I'm going to start playing my own game here. And it just took off. And as soon as I saw them believe me, I played this fully double agent game where I was feeding it all day. And then, yeah. Well, this really kicks off with actually the rich tribal council being able to play double agent, considering that you don't really vote in either camp here, either the Mark votes or the rich votes. And this is yet again another chaotic evening.

[01:12:20] Right. Mark even pulls you aside and is like, I have an idol. I'm going to play it. And this causes you to vote for Brooke. So talk to me about how you digested the news that Mark gave you in the moment. Did you believe him? And how did that lead to your vote for Brooke? Yeah. So I it was, you know, that whole tribal council, I was still. Playing this double agent game when I was sitting next to Ben and I was winking at Mark. Right.

[01:12:46] Ben would whisper in my ear and then Mark would look at me and I'd go like, I'd shake my head, you know, just to have him on my side. And then I honestly didn't know which way it was going to go. But what I did know is I want to continue to work with both sides if I have to. Now, when Mark pulls me aside, tell me he's got an idol at the start. I didn't believe it. Right. I thought that he was bluffing.

[01:13:11] But then I was when I sat down, I go, what is he going to get out of bluffing? He has an idol because if he even if he has one, we're still going to want to flush it and we're still going to put votes on him. Right. So I thought he's not actually going to get very far with lying about having an idol because we're still going to put his name down anyway. So I'll go, oh, crap. Mark's going to stay in the game tonight. Right. So I can't work with Ben because I know he's going to stay in the game.

[01:13:39] And I don't want to work with Mark because then I've lost all of Ben and Jackson and everybody else. So I make the split decision when I'm in the voting booth to vote Brooke because Brooke had left me out of the Lottie vote, which I was still annoyed about. So I thought I can go back to camp because you don't want to tell them you're playing a double agent game. All right. So even though that's why I wrote Brooke's name, I couldn't actually say that to anyone's faces. So I was thinking, what am I going to say if I put Brooke's name? Okay.

[01:14:09] I'll say that I knew my vote was going to be void. It was going to be a shot in the dark. And I'll say that I did it because I was upset that I got left out of the Lottie vote. So that's why I put Brooke's name down instead of like Keely or something. And yeah, it kind of worked for my favor because they kind of just swept it under the rug. I was still able to hear what's happening on both teams because knowledge is power. I was still hearing about what Mike's doing and what Ben's doing.

[01:14:37] And yeah, I thought that was a pretty good move. Well, yeah. It helps inform what happens the very next vote where Mark and Ben go take two. Let's gun for each other now. Now, before we get into the vote, you mentioned this before, but just to clarify, because there is this moment where you kind of turn Mark and Ben against each other. You say that one was talking about the other and it's this brilliant sequence, right? Where it keeps cutting to you looking through the blades of grass in the shelter.

[01:15:02] From what you were saying, it sounds like this also may have come from you just like getting mixed up in all the chaos. Is that the vote you were talking about? Yeah. So I think after the wild night we had just had, we had kind of like wanted to stray away from that and go somewhere else. And that's where Simon started to come into the mix, right? So at the start of that scramble or even in the morning, Simon's name was on the board, okay? Right. A hundred percent.

[01:15:32] And I knew that Mark didn't have a noddle and I wanted to get rid of Mark, okay? I wanted that move to be mine. And I didn't want, because I knew that Ben could have claimed that move if Mark went out that night, right? Instead of rich, I wanted to figure out what I could do. And then I didn't know if, I didn't really believe or know what was going on with Ben because Ben was acting completely crazy, right?

[01:16:00] And so then I just go to Mark and I go, this is what's happening. Ben is going hard for you tonight, right? And he's like, really? And I go, yeah, he's going hard. He's got all these numbers behind him and that's funny. And then I go to Ben who was, yeah, going out of control. And I go, you know, Mark and all the returnees are gunning for you. And it just added chaos and fear in all of their hearts.

[01:16:26] And once I saw them believe me, I was like, you beauty, I'm on. And that's when like you see us as a group, walk like the underdog group, walk, you know, under this tree and we're talking. I remember going, guys, I have to run because I got to go back to the returnees to like, you know, make it look like I'm on their side. And they're like, you go, Caleb, you go. Run back to there. And I'm, yeah, just talking absolute crap. It was such a wild time of the game.

[01:16:54] Yeah, I was going to say, like, how were you able to, again, was it just that Mark and Ben were so focused on each other that they didn't choose to compare notes and realize that you were the ones that was getting them turned around? I think so. And Mark had a lot of trust in me. All right. Mark never saw me coming. All right. He thought, because like we would get up in the middle of the night, I would relay him information. He just thought there's no way that my humble, loyal servant is going to backstab me.

[01:17:23] Little did he know that I have wanted to get him out since the start. So that was Mark's biggest downfall is underestimating my game. But in doing that, he respected the work that I put in to get him out because it was not easy. You know what I mean? It took a lot of work. Yeah. So were you so dead set on him going to tribal council? Like had they pulled you aside, the returnees and said, OK, who do you want? You want Jackson?

[01:17:53] We'll vote for Jackson tonight. Was there a chance you were going to go with them? Or were you always set on Mark's going home tonight no matter what? I remember that conversation and thinking, oh, I could get out my nemesis right now. You know, and then I was just like, that would look good for a move for me getting out Jackson. But then I realized, hold up a sec. They've kind of just told me, you know, this is your move, Caleb. You can get Jackson out.

[01:18:19] And I go, oh, they're going to be able to twist it somehow in the end of the game for it to not be my move. And then five minutes later, Mark's running over to me going like, oh, we want Ben. So I'm like, these are all full of crap. You know, it doesn't matter what I do or what I say. It's yeah, it's not in my favor. So I was just sticking to my plan. And you can't believe what the returnees say because they're puppet, you know, puppet masters.

[01:18:48] Well, one of the reasons why they were trying to create favor with you is because your alliance has sat on this weird like five to two split. Do you have any insight as to why you did that? It really boggles the mind to me to this day. Yeah, I think we were way too overconfident. We were way too overconfident. We let it get to our heads and we yeah, we made a big blunder.

[01:19:16] And watching that back, it's just like, but you know, you live and learn, you live and learn. And I think we yeah, we at least didn't make that mistake again quite that bad. But yeah, I think it's just a case of power getting to your head, thinking that you know what's going on. Never underestimate anything or anyone in Survivor. And that was proved first and foremost by what you were able to do here.

[01:19:45] And obviously, again, like you said, you put in so much groundwork to make this happen. But what was this like for you from an emotional perspective? Because I would imagine on the one hand, it's great. This is a guy that you had been watching his season in the car ride to the airport. Like this is someone who has been on your mind before your feet even hit the sand in Samoa. But it's probably another thing to blindside this guy who you have played every day of

[01:20:12] the game with and who you knew trusted you to the ends of the earth. What was that moment like for you? I didn't really want to do it, Mike. Really? I didn't really want to do it. I kind of felt like I didn't have many friends out there. And Mark was my main man. But as far as game wise, I kind of felt like I needed to. But I did enjoy hanging out with Mark at the same time.

[01:20:37] The way it felt like is, you know, when a hunter is stalking like a big, majestic buck and he goes into there wanting to get rid of it straight away. But over time, watching it and realizing how cool this animal is, he hesitates a bit when he actually gets it in the scope. And I feel like that's what happened to me. Like after hanging out with Mark so long, I was like, oh, do I do I really want to do it? Yes, Caleb, you need to turn that off and you need to do it.

[01:21:06] But it was it was sad. But it ended up being, you know, such a pivotal moment for me. So, yeah. Were you surprised when you got back to camp and you have people like Brooke being like, great job, Caleb. It's all you. Like, did you hope you could have gone into the shadows a little bit instead of getting called out that this was your move? I was surprised that my secret game was seen. You know, like I thought that I had, you know, done that big, massive move in the shadows.

[01:21:35] Like I knew that Sally knew what I was doing. I basically told her everything, how it went down, like just before we went to tribal council. Right. But as far as Brooke saying, well done, Caleb, I was like, oh, you guys knew all along. Yeah, I am. I was quite surprised with everyone knew about how I played Mark. But watching it back, it's a bit obvious.

[01:22:03] How did you deal with the fallout from that? Did you feel like Brooke or Keely or Simon, like could ever have a straight conversation with you again after you you were able to school them like that? No, because me voting Mark was my coming out of I am never going to work with attorneys again. Now I am a fully fledged underdog. There is no hiding it. There's no going back. That's why I voted Brooke the last vote because I was still floating.

[01:22:34] Me writing Mark down was like, this is me. This is where I am. This is who I'm playing with now. So there was never again going to be a time where I was like, can I come back and play with you guys? You know, that was it. That was my coming out night. And and so I I was very prepared for that and very prepared to cut ties with a whole bunch of people from that vote. So I I was I was waiting for that to happen.

[01:23:02] So then was the double agent strategy DOA now? OK, I was to say, or were you trying to, you know, play different factions going on within the underdog alliance? Nah, I went from my double agent game to now let's try and make my own game. Let's become a leader and let's try and, you know. Try and start your own game. And if people want to come in and play with you or under you, that's going to be it was very pivotal moment for me.

[01:23:29] I still had to I still had players out there like Ben and Jackson that I had to, you know, try and move around. But yeah, that was it. That was now where I'm starting to play for Caleb and no one else. Were you actually going to get rid of Simon after he played 99 days if he didn't win immunity? Were you going to fully enact Operation 99? Dude, I was. Yeah. And that is it's quite cold hearted.

[01:23:59] But it came at a time when like people were just getting a little bit fed up with they're getting a bit fed up with all of his speeches and stuff like that. And I was obviously trying to get Simon out that whole time. You know what I mean? And it doesn't matter when or where I get Simon out. But it just was going to be, you know, if it was going to be his 99th day, then it was going to be his 99th day. Like, oh, if it was going to be his 113th day, then so be it.

[01:24:29] But I was still hell bent on my getting the returnees out. Well, he does make it to day 100. And so you have to pivot plans. And basically everyone has to pivot plans. And some of you have heard this before, another wild tribal council where there's a fake idol and a real idol. And the real idols played on somebody else. So it seems like from our perspective, this is the Blanche vote, obviously someone that means a lot to you.

[01:24:55] And it seems like you're where you left out of this, you know, as Ben is going and actually going around saying, like, let's throw votes onto Blanche. Was this something you were aware of at all? No, I had no idea about all of that. I, because I obviously thought that I had no idea about this whole double idol, all that kind of stuff. But then right before it happened, Ben runs over to me and Cam and says, we've got to vote Blanche. We've got to vote Blanche.

[01:25:24] And Blanche had been kind of having a bit of a rough go towards the end. And I was just like, well, I'm not going to write her name down. I'm not going to do it. But Cam was like, yeah, all right, whatever, whatever. We did, it's hard to believe anyone when they run over to acting already. But I was kind of just sitting down, Ben, like, we're going to see what happens now. You know what I mean? And I guess we saw what happens. But then I'm seeing Cam sitting next to me, shaking his head.

[01:25:53] And I thought he was angry at me for going, yep, all right, do it. And it turns out he was angry at himself for writing down Blanche. You know what I mean? Yeah, that whole night sent us all into panic. It's hard to make sense of that night at all. Yeah, what was your reaction when both the idols came out? Because did you think one of them was fake as Jackson was claiming? Did you think both of them were fake? Both of them were real?

[01:26:22] Well, I thought it was weird that Brooke was hiding it in her jumper and not showing it. I was asking her to show that idol and she was refusing. So I was just like, you know, I don't think it's me tonight. So you guys can do whatever you want, implode on each other. And I'll just write down the name that I said I was going to write down. Like sometimes a good game is still hiding in the shadows because you're trying to outlast. You know what I mean?

[01:26:49] Let the big players crash and burn on each other. So I was just going to go in there, write down who I said. And yeah, it was exciting to watch these two good players bluff with these idols. But yeah, I felt pretty safe at the end of the day as well. Well, the next episode is when again, some of you've heard this before, you think you've got these returnees dead to rights that you finally have them cornered.

[01:27:16] And Jackson makes the flip and you have some choice words for him. Back at camp after the move was made, you sold out your one mate out of the game. They used you to get you on their side. That's not your move. What was your reaction? Because again, as you mentioned, your gameplay sort of pivoted to like, let's keep this group together and accomplish what I want to do. And now you are two for two in losing people from quote unquote your side.

[01:27:45] So at this point of the game, Mike, I am feeling very confident in myself now, right? I'm not showing it, but I'm feeling better and better and better as the days are going on. Okay. I'm starting to really feel like I know how to play Survivor better. I'm starting to feel like big players are dropping like flies. And I had already been, I'd had Simon try and do that move to me. Okay.

[01:28:12] He had said, Caleb, I'll give you my 500 grand if you pull this move off. Okay. I didn't believe him. I wanted everyone to know, like the reason I was doing that, because I wanted everyone to know this is not a big move right now. This is not some strategy mastermind of Jackson to vote out his best mate. He didn't do what I just done to Mark. Okay. He hadn't just done what I've done for so long to get Mark out. This is not the same move. Okay.

[01:28:42] And I want everyone to know that. I want everyone to know that Jackson is not playing an immaculate game right now. And I felt like I was in the position to call it out. Okay. Because it's quite easily to manipulate a group of people saying like, yeah, I've just done this. And people start to believe it. Okay. But if you've got some chaos, Caleb in the camp saying, hang on a sec, guys, guys, guys, no, that's not how it's going on.

[01:29:10] Guys, the returnees are quite easily going to be able to say, we tricked him into voting at his right or die. Like that needs to be said. Okay. Because people are going to be thinking that already, but are they going to be saying it? It needs to be said. So that's why I came out guns blazing because I wanted at least someone to have that said that in, you know, in the universe because you could quite easily be tricked thinking that that was an immaculate, amazing move.

[01:29:38] But to me, that was nothing. What was your dynamic with Jackson? Like at that point, because you two had been working together alongside Ben in this underdog alliance. Was there still a little bit of tension there though, from everything that happened in the pre-merge? Look, I never really liked him after he called me out. Right. I never had five minutes for him, but sometimes we had to work together. Sometimes we came together for a vote and we had talked a bit about like,

[01:30:08] imagine how funny it would be, you know, starting his rivals and ending his mates. But then I never got that from him. I never saw him try and actually be a friend. I never, we never talked together just in downtime. Like, tell me a bit about your family or, you know, I tried. I remember like a couple of times trying to be civil, but it just died in the ass. It never went anywhere. So look, I didn't have much time for him after that. You know what I mean?

[01:30:36] And also him working or him flipping and going with the other group. It was kind of loud. Like I'm not with you guys anymore. All right. Well, let's move from a not so friendly face to someone who will become your ride or die until the penultimate day in the game, Kayla. But because this is when we are shown you and Laws really locking in.

[01:31:01] Talk to me about how this friendship turned Ironclad Alliance formulated. Was it really around this time that you're like, I want to lock in with her? Well, ever since Merge, we had had little chats with each other. We had realized that we both see eye to eye. We had realized that we both want to keep in the same people and vote out the same people. So it made a lot of sense for us to come together. But it also happened in a way when we kind of were on the outs.

[01:31:32] We were kind of lonely. And this was like such a saving grace for me. She came over to me. She basically said, can we have a relationship where we tell each other no lies? Where we're completely honest with each other. And I was getting so over all of the lying and stuff like that. I was, sometimes you even forget your own lies and start, you know, don't even know what you've said to people.

[01:31:59] And it just happened at the right time. And it was like, oh yeah, we can have good solid friendships out here, can't we? And it just is a testimony to the truth because us doing that really just propelled us in a position that was so much stronger than what everyone else had. Because no one else trusted each other at that point of the game. No one. And I trusted Loz. Loz trusted me. And it was so good.

[01:32:29] It's so interesting because the two of you were really ships passing in the night. Obviously, you never played together in the pre-merge. Even the day when she was at your camp, you were getting ready to make speeches to go over to her tribe. And so it is so interesting that like you finally found the person that kind of approached the game the same way as you. But it took half the game to reach that point. Yeah, it is crazy.

[01:32:55] And, you know, it was at a time when I think she had been punched down a little bit. And she had noticed that I had never punched down on anyone. So it just made a lot of sense. Her brother also has a lot of tattoos. So maybe I felt like home a little bit. And it was just awesome. It was really good. All right. Well, as we get into this Simon Vaux, you are finally able to get another returning out.

[01:33:24] And this is something that you talked about with me in the initial interview we did as to, OK, why did Brooke end up flipping on Simon? Now, maybe it was due to the challenge wins or feeling like he was going to take her out. But you told me that you had actually had a conversation prior to tribal council where you and Brooke brokered a bit of a deal. Talk to me more about that. Yeah. Yeah. So at this stage of the game, I'm starting to, you know, feel confident.

[01:33:51] I will work with someone if it means, you know, helping my game. I was never going to go to rocks. OK. I was never going to allow my game to go to a rock. I was telling everyone that. But like I really didn't want it to get to that. So and I kind of felt that Brooke was a bit the same. So I was telling her like, Brooke, do you really want to put your whole legacy to a rock? This is your third time doing this game. You could win. But do you want to go out?

[01:34:21] Do you want to end your legacy on a rock? And she's like, well, obviously not. And I go, well, then come over just for this one vote and vote out Simon, a guy who you are actively trying to beat in, you know, individual immunities and stuff like that. But you know that if he's in the game, it's going to make you getting that necklace a whole of a lot harder. And she goes, well, what's in it for me, Kel? And I go, sorry, what do you want? Who do you want?

[01:34:49] She goes, I want Cam out of the game. And that was so perfect because I had started to acknowledge Cam as a bit of a player. Right. I'd been watching Cam talk to everyone now. Okay. He was talking to Brooke. He was talking to pretty much everyone and he was doing it quite confidently, which is worrying for me because now I'm acknowledging him as a threat. Right. And I was getting a little bit intimidated by it.

[01:35:19] So he was going to go soon anyway. That was like music to my ears. I think they couldn't show that conversation because then you might know who's going home that night. Yeah, kind of spoils, spoils basically two weeks of episodes. Pretty much. It was something that I said in my pitch that didn't make the edit, but at least they all knew about the moves and Brooke confirmed it. Um, yeah, so obviously Brooke jumps over.

[01:35:46] Oh, she did say, I'll only do it if it goes to a re-vote. That's what I was going to say that like, unlike what Keely will do, she does vote for laws initially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she said, if it goes to a re-vote, then I'll do it. I'm like, fine. And then we go to tribal council, I'll pull Brooke out. So we have a little one-on-one chat. Mark was watching. He's like, who's Caleb working with? What is he doing? And, um, and I go, are we still on board to do Simon tonight? And she's like, yep, let's do it.

[01:36:15] If it goes to a re-vote, I promise I'll do it. So it does. And, uh, yeah, it was all good. And then you've got to, and then, so the next night I had the job of trying to convince all of my tribe, all of my alliance that we've got to get Cam out. Right. So him not taking me or Loz to that reward was like music to my ears because now I can tug on the heartstrings of everyone. Right.

[01:36:42] Loz was dirty as that he didn't take her. And that was perfect for my game because I can be like, well, how does that make you feel, Loz? Right. Like, and yeah, I could just easily use that as ammo to convince everyone to get Cameron out. That's so interesting because, yeah, in the episode, we're led to believe like Caleb is flighty that Cameron's going after Sally. Caleb is absolutely apoplectic that he doesn't get picked for a reward.

[01:37:11] But it sounds like you were more so using those as excuses to convince everybody else to follow through on your end of the deal. I obviously would have loved to go. But at the same time, Brooke said something that really resonated with me. She goes, it's not always necessarily the best thing doing like a, um, a sleepover reward where you get all clean and wash your hair. And then you've got to get straight back into the game the next day and get dirty again. You were so close to the end. You may as well write it out.

[01:37:40] You've made it this far. Let's go. So I was like, yeah, that's true. And, um, he Cameron had thrown out, um, Sally's name, which made me worried that he was going to flip on our alliance already. So it, it literally, I used it as ammo for, for Loz. I used the ammo for Sally and yeah, it didn't take much convincing. Well, you are able to also get away with, uh, ferreting some more information out of Brooke.

[01:38:09] You keep her in the game, but it's not without her giving away some key intel. Let's get into everything around this half idol. So Sally finds this. She tells you about this. How did you formulate this plan to try to sit Brooke down and shake this information out of her? Mate, that was so fun. Right. So Sally telling me that she had found that half idol was like music to my ears.

[01:38:39] As soon as I remember at this point of the game, I am feeling like I am in a hundred percent control now. Right. Yeah. And I'm now starting to have fun. And so Sally telling me she's got that half idol straight away. My mind goes click into gear. I can use this to my advantage. If I convince everyone that I have the half idol, I might be able to stay out of people's votes. Right. Because they might think, well, I can work with them. So now I've got to figure out who has the other half.

[01:39:07] Because if I tell people that it's me who has the other half, people might be able to work with me. So they're not going to bounce my name around. So that was the, the idea of saying that I had the other half. And then I was like, now let's try and see who has it. And I remember just going around camp. So I went to Brooke and I go, you know, like it's so hard at the moment, isn't it? You know, if I could just, I go, how do you do it?

[01:39:37] How do you find an idol? I'm trying to find an idol. I'm trying to find a crazy idol. I'm trying to find, I think I said a whole bunch. And then I go, a half idol. And she just looks like, looks straight ahead. And then I just seen her going, gotcha, gotcha. Actually, honestly, I think that happened off camera. And we had to redo the conversation. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah.

[01:40:03] That happened off camera because I was just working, working the camp. And then once that turned out to be like a big thing, she's like, Caleb, we're going to do it again. So yeah, we did the conversation again. And yes, I was never, I was never going to give her an, even if I had it, there was no, I don't know, the whole idea of that half idol. Like no one, I had convinced everyone enough anyway to let's never let Keely have an idol again.

[01:40:32] Let's never let Brooke have her sixth or seventh idol of the season again. So it was never going to happen. I was worried when Sally started her tangent. Also, what have I done? Yeah. Well, I'm curious because you get this information out of Brooke and she's going to outright say it at travel council, including saying, oh, and Caleb has the other half.

[01:40:55] So did you debate at all going back on that deal, getting rid of her and saving Cameron or were you sort of in for a penny in for a pound no matter what he was gone? Yeah, I, I, I, I acknowledged him to be too much of a threat. Cam was gone. Right. Cam was gone because. Yeah, I think. With Brooke, she had already played her game.

[01:41:20] She had already pretty much ran her game dry, but Cam kind of felt like he was just starting, which is why. And Cam kind of felt like he's, he's going into his era now. And that is scary because it's so close to the end. I don't want you to, you know, start writing your story now. So he was, he was, he was done. He was gone.

[01:41:45] And like, I would have rather get him at even be, you know, before I would have rather Brooke go before Cam, but on. Sorry. Other way around. Yeah. Well, Brooke does end up going the next time out, but it's not for a little drama because Sally decides, OK, I'm going to try to get the other half idol from Brooke by telling her that she wants you out. But she's going to blindside you by holding on to both halves of the idol.

[01:42:15] It's clear you were not particularly happy about this, but did this change the way you looked at Sally at all, considering how much she was floating your name out there as a decoy? Look, I knew I was happy she was telling me if I found that out and she hadn't told me that would have been it for Sally. Yeah. But I still didn't like it. You know what I mean? You don't want your name banced around ever. And like, I just couldn't see a very smart strategy behind it.

[01:42:43] I couldn't see it really working the way she had wanted it to work. So I just, I went along with it to, cause she wanted to do it. But at the same time, I just felt like it was, it was never going to work. It was never going to work. So I just, yeah, didn't like it. Well, final five, all the returning players are gone. Caleb, at least part of your plan is accomplished.

[01:43:11] There is technically one left, I guess, in the form of Keeley. But there is some other stuff that seems to be happening around camp. In particular, Laws decides to float out yet again, the idea of getting you out. Something that does get communicated back to you and seems to get squashed pretty quickly. But did you feel like there was any legitimacy to that? What was your reaction when Jackson tells you like, oh yeah, Laws is gutting for you right now?

[01:43:41] Good acting, wasn't it? Because me and Laws had spoken about that already. Oh, really? Yeah. This is what people don't understand is that she had told me, Caleb, we want people to not think we're as strong as we actually are. So she told me she's going to be running my name out there. Right? She said she's going to run my name out nearly every scramble. I was so prepared for that. Right?

[01:44:06] And so, like she said that she was going to tell them what they want to hear in the final four, in the final five. So that was not a surprise for me because we were always talking about that in our little personal one-on-one chats. Right? We didn't want people thinking that we were as solid as we actually were. Because then we are in the eyes of the public. And that's not what you want. Like you want to be really strong in secret.

[01:44:35] And so she would always tell me, I'm going to run your name out here. I'm going to, you know, and before even that, she had told me that she's like, I'm going to try and push all girls alliance. But don't worry, Caleb, I'm strong with you. Right? So I never believed all of that, that was getting floated around camp. But you see me going like, yeah, all right. All right. No worries. And like looking like the cogs are turning. Mate, I knew, I knew that that's what Loz with her game was doing.

[01:45:05] So it was actually all good. Interesting. Yeah. We get to travel council and yeah, Loz seems to be off the table for you. Maybe not to a couple other people. And as you mentioned, this is a, I guess you called it a tangent, right? Sally's entire plan of getting the half idol from Keely and you outright say at one point, you're like, oh God, did she flip on us? Are we, are we screwed right now? What was going through your head as Sally was doing all that stuff? How much was your confidence wavering that you would get Keely out at that point?

[01:45:36] Me and Loz had always been worried about Sally doing that. That was certainly something that we had spoken about. Right. It was certainly always a worry. Like we love Sally and she was obviously working with us and, you know, going along with the votes. But then we were always scared that she was going to make that one big move of getting at me or Loz. And so we were kind of waiting for that to happen, but she didn't.

[01:46:04] And we were very, very happy. But yeah, I think that was when we were like, yep, it's happening. This is what we're worried about. Like, but yeah, lucky for us, she was just playing the game. Yeah. And she will play that game the very next day. You were worried about her turning on you, Caleb. It wasn't going to happen just yet. Let's get into this final stretch.

[01:46:30] Let's get into the final few days that will culminate in you being crowd, soul, survivor. Final four. How much did you get the sense that Sally was starting to turn on you? Because it seems like she's floating your name out even before the immunity challenge happens. Mate. I watched it happen because I grabbed Sally at final four. Right. And I taught her how to get through final four. Okay.

[01:47:00] So when I, let me start from. Please. I said you in a, in a group of four. Right. You have two people that you, you have one person that you're strong with. Right. Right. And then you tell the other two a different name. So that means that this two is the winning vote. Right. Because now they're going to go a different name. As soon as I explained that to Sally, her eyes lit up. Right. And I was just, I'm straight away.

[01:47:26] As soon as it left my mouth and I saw her reaction, I go, you're going to do that to me. Right. Right. I straight away saw her go, that is like a eureka moment. And then as soon as she walked away, I go, they're going to do that to me. Right. Because I have drilled it into Sally, get every player with moves out of the game. She knew I had moves. Okay. So I don't know. I don't know. It was almost like Sally had forgotten that I told her that strategy. Right.

[01:47:55] Because I was so prepared now for her to do that to me. So I could go to Loz and go, Loz, this is how it's going to go down. They are going to vote me. I am going to tell them that I'm going to vote you because I'm obviously not going to say I'm voting Sally. We can't vote Jackson. Right. I go, my whole game lies in your hands, Loz. Okay. You just need to vote Sally tonight. And I go, you need to tell them that you're going to vote me. Right.

[01:48:24] So we go to fire. Just tell them that you're on their side. So there's no, you know, there's no confusion. But yeah, I knew exactly what was going down that night to a T. Did you know that Loz seemed to be as back and forth and confessional as she was? That there was a part of her that might have been considering making that move at that point at four?

[01:48:52] No, I was in like, she was telling me, oh, you know, in my confessionals, I get confused, blah, blah, blah. Like she was very open with me about everything. Obviously, she could have. But I was just, I put all my eggs in that basket with Loz. So I was, and like, even in some of my confessionals, they would ask like, you know, do you really think that Loz is as strong as you say she is like on your side?

[01:49:22] And I'll be like, yes, don't get in my head. I don't want to hear it because my gut is telling me yes. I don't want my mind to start doubting, right? Because like, I am going with my gut right now. And yeah, so if you can't trust yourself, then who can you trust? Well, especially you trust yourself to make one hell of a fire. What was the reaction from Sally and Jackson when the vote tied? Like, did you just feel them be crestfallen knowing that not to say it was an auto win, but again, from what we had been led to believe,

[01:49:52] it seemed like you were a pretty damn good shoe in to win that fire making challenge. Yeah. So, so much for the fact that even Sally had her hands on my knee to say, I'm sorry, Caleb. Right. And then her name gets pulled out and she just recoils. She's like, what? And I'm just sitting there because I'm knowing what's going on. And then, yeah. And then her whole game kind of flashed in front of her eyes.

[01:50:21] It's just crazy because she'd been asked before, do you want to, excuse me, do you want to learn how to make fire? And she's like, no, I'm fine. But I, I do believe like it's a game of survival and fire is life. If you don't take the time to learn how to make fire, do you deserve sole survivor? I don't think so. I don't know, but it just doesn't sit well with me to, you know,

[01:50:48] win survivor and not be able to do little things like that. Anyway, we go to fire and I get my little record, which was cool. All right, Caleb, the time has come. So we need to get into the decision that sent shockwaves around the world, starting centralized in Samoa at that tribal council.

[01:51:14] Let's, let's go all the way back to the beginning of this penultimate day in the game. So like, what was the, the percentage from your perspective of, okay, I'm this percent confident I'm taking laws. If I win, I'm this percent confident Jackson will, without even getting into the challenge, just starting day 45. Like the very morning I was still going to take laws.

[01:51:43] When I woke up, I was still taking laws. And then look, you're just not thinking clearly, or you're not thinking rationally at 46 days of what you've gone through. And you know, you're about to do such a heinous thing. Um, our, obviously we had worked so close together, Mike, right? Yeah. Through the game.

[01:52:09] And then we start acting different in the one day it matters most. Our body language was off and Loz wasn't looking me in the eye, right? She was not giving me confirmation that I needed. Okay. So I started going in my head about, she is going to, she's going to make her big move. Right. Because she kept telling me, Caleb, I need to win pegs.

[01:52:38] Otherwise I've got nothing. Otherwise I'm not going to, not going to win. And I'll go, this is going to be her big blind side. This is going to be her big move. That's why she can't look me in the face. And then, you know, I remember something that Brooke said to me about the jury always vote emotionally. They, they vote with who they feel like deserve the 500 grand.

[01:53:03] Why would they give it to me over a single mom of two kids who has, you know, who has gone through a lot of struggle in her life and stuff like that. I just, I just couldn't see, I couldn't see it being an easy, easy battle. Right. And then none of us getting off the pegs. Yeah. So clarify that for a second. So, cause we see from the edit, it seemed like the two of you made a deal and you specifically

[01:53:33] said, okay, if it's the two of us, I will step down. But was it two way here? Did you both agree to do that? I guess so. I guess we, cause I, I remember saying that being like, oh, if we're up there for ages, we'll just get, just get off. Right. And we weren't getting off. And I'd also, like I said, had that moment of like, we had kind of started to fall apart on the last day.

[01:54:00] Um, which was just sending me into not knowing what's going on, but yeah, it was, it was so many reasons. And then I just knew, right. Like that Jackson was always going to be able to say, Caleb took the coward route by not taking him. Caleb, I would have, he would have always been able to say that he would have beaten me at the end if I hadn't have taken it. Right.

[01:54:29] And that would have felt like he had won because I, I didn't want to go up against him. You know what I mean? That would have been the, the ending of me and Jackson would, it would have been me not wanting to, to battle it out, you know, boy versus boy. Um, and he would have always had that over me being like, he was too scared to take me. And I did not want him ever saying that.

[01:54:58] So all of these reasons all piled on me while standing there on pegs. And it was just like, I think I'm not going to take laws. Well, luckily you had a loving face to look at to maybe temporarily take you away from the excruciating pain. Talk to me about having your dad out there. What was that? What was that like?

[01:55:22] Oh, it was, it was, I remember the last couple of days before pegs thinking my dad might be out here in Samoa right now. And that was just a wild, like just standing, looking at the ocean thinking we might be on the same patch of land. You know what I mean? That was really, that was really cool. Um, then seeing him and he, he remembers it where he come over the hill and he's like,

[01:55:51] Caleb, I'm like dad. Dad. And you know, I hadn't, I hadn't been emotional the whole game. I'd been able to hold it. And he said one sentence where the whole game just hit me in the face and he goes, you're so skinny. And that just nearly broke me. Right. Because it just reminded me of all the hardship, all the starving, all the cold nights. And I, I remember just having the biggest ball in my throat going like, don't cry. Don't cry.

[01:56:21] Don't cry. Just hold it in, hold it in. But yeah, that was really where the whole ordeal of survivor had really just whacked me seeing dad and him saying like, you know, you smell like a, a bonfire. You know what I mean? You got a mix of BO and campfire. I was just like, it's been so hard. Can you describe what this challenge was like for you?

[01:56:45] I think we saw a very big representation of this in Jackson during the multiple times he nearly went down. But what were you feeling physically, emotionally, mentally during this four hour torture exercise? Yeah, it was, it was really fun to see. To see my, my mental state when the chips are down, when you're in pain, what, what, what, what do I pull from?

[01:57:15] And I just found this reserve bank that just says, don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up. Just, you know, put on a brave face. Don't ever get off these pegs. And I was just like, I feel the, the first pegs were just as hard for me as the last ones. Because as soon as I got on, it was like, well, this is a shock to the system. And yeah, I guess I love to really push my own limits. I love to get out of my comfort zone.

[01:57:42] I love to, to do things that most people would not do. And the pegs was just like me in a nutshell. So I was proud of my, how I went, but also I'm glad that I can do something like that. And, you know, not, not collapse. So I think I only, I probably only had 40 minutes in me left when I stepped off, but yeah, I could have kept going.

[01:58:10] Well, you had plenty of time to formulate, as you said, all of these reasons. So when you get down from these pegs, I'm entering necklace and toe. Were you set on getting rid of laws or were these names still going through your head as you make the trek to tribal council? Yeah. Yeah. It's funny you say that because I still had not made my decision. That whole ending was just insane.

[01:58:35] You know, Loz went down and I remember running over to her and hugging her and hugging dad. And then straight away, mate, we go to tribal council. Yeah. And Jackson, he did put on a fight that I admired. Okay. I admired his warrior fight up there because he, he went, he, he pushed through the most amount of pain that he could. And he actually did make a bit of a pitch that I liked.

[01:59:05] Um, Loz didn't think she needed to. So she didn't, she just said, you know, we've been tight the whole time. Let's go. And Jackson's, uh, I, I, I kind of liked it and I made my mind up. When did you make your mind up? Was it like there in the voting booth or there in response to a specific answer one way or the other? Walking to the voting booth. Oh my God. How crazy is that?

[01:59:34] I like, I, in, when I was sitting there on the little seats, I had just turned my mind off and I wasn't really thinking about what I was going to do until I stood up and I'm like, Oh damn, I got to do it now. And so walking there, it was just like, this is your $500,000 decision, Caleb. What's it going to be? I am going to make a move that'll be talked about forever because Mike, I really believed how does someone die in survivor?

[02:00:05] Do you get, you went to get out this a lot considering you were wearing dead people's clothes. Well, how does someone, you know, is it when a group of collective people get together and vote you off? No, I don't think so. Or is it when one person blindsides you? No, I feel like someone really loses the game when they become a forgotten player. Okay. I was so scared of being someone who is forgotten. I've always been like that.

[02:00:34] I've always done these outlandish things because I want to be remembered. And I thought I am going to make the last big move that people are going to talk about for ages. And so I will not be forgotten here. And I wrote laws. So we talked about this with Mark a little bit, but from an emotional perspective, again, you had all these reasons swimming through your head. You were so exhausted at this point.

[02:01:00] But what was it like from your own, again, personal POV to turn on this person that you felt so solid with just from a personal perspective for the past little while? I just, I was worried that she was going to think that everything that I've said to her was fake. Yeah. It wasn't. I genuinely loved Loz. And I was worried that she was going to be like, oh my gosh, I've just invested in

[02:01:29] this asshole that has lied to me for the last 30 days. No, that's not the case. That's not the case. I'm doing this because I also don't want to drag her through the coals for two hours tomorrow night saying how much better I am than her. That's not my style. And I was worried that I wasn't going to get the chance to explain to her, no, I still think you're an amazing person.

[02:01:56] I still am, you know, am the same Caleb. I haven't been this big elaborate liar to you. So I was worried about that. And that really got into my head. And so in the pitch, I didn't want to even bring up Loz. You know, I really didn't even want to talk to her. And I remember like wanting to break down and cry when she said, Caleb, claim it.

[02:02:22] She allowed me to finally take that move because like, I was not going to really be like, you know, I blindsided better than anyone is blind. Like I was never going to parade my, my move to the jury. I was never going to wear that as a trophy being like, look how good I blindsided my ride or die, you know, cause I felt genuinely bad about it.

[02:02:48] Um, but then her sitting there being like, Caleb, our dynamic was huge. You're not talking about it. Claim it, Caleb, claim it. It was like, I remember wanting to be like, can I just run out of camera frame and cry for a little bit? Cause yeah, it was, it was a wild feeling. And then it was also like, oh, she doesn't hate me. So knowing that she doesn't hate me was like, okay, now I can, now I can do this.

[02:03:18] So when you actually make this vote, what was your reaction to the reaction? I mean, people were absolutely stunned. Very, I think representative of how the rest of us were feeling. Did you have this, this instant moment of like, oh no, this might not go over well. Yeah. Yeah. I was just like, oh, maybe this was a bigger than I thought it was.

[02:03:48] Um, there, there was a mixed reaction in my mind. I was like, oh, maybe they'll, um, really appreciate the big move. Cause everyone's got a smile on their face. And then I saw Mark sitting there and not really giving me a confirmation. And I was like, oh no, he thinks that I've made a mistake here. Maybe I did make a mistake. Oh no. What have I done? So I was, yeah, I was in two minds about it.

[02:04:16] Well, let's bring those minds together to the final day of the game here, Caleb. So how did that inform the way you were approaching final tribal council? Because like you mentioned, I would imagine it must be so odd to like both orient your mind towards, okay, now I have to talk up my game to really, you know, lay on this $500,000 pitch. But on the other hand, you're like, but I also just made this move that I have no idea if people liked or not. What was your mindset going into this final tribal council?

[02:04:46] Obviously I, my mind was so scrambled that day, right? If I, if I could do my pitch today, it would be the opposite of what I did. You know, I would be able to basically my mom used to say to me as a kid, Caleb, you could sell honey to a bee. You could sell ice to Eskimos, right? I've always been good at selling myself. And the time when I needed to is the time when I did the worst.

[02:05:12] Um, which is so ironic and on point for me, but yeah, look, I had done a day of doing IVs like confessionals in the sun and I hadn't drank much water. So I was pretty fried. Um, but my pitch was, I just, I just rushed through it.

[02:05:36] You know, I really just only focused on points of times when I had fun and not really about my strategy. So I remember talking about, you know, I, I caught like 15 crabs for the tribe. I ate these sea snails. I, you know, I had so much fun doing this and I had so much fun doing that. Um, I, I, I really rushed through the whole Mark vote.

[02:06:05] I rushed through everything. And I remember people like looking going like, you know, that was terrible. And then listening to Jackson's pitch, I just started going into this hole of like, whatever you've won. I've made the biggest mistake of my life and just sitting there going further and further down. And it was hard to pull myself out of that hole.

[02:06:30] So then how much of that polling was yourself changing it versus as we saw in the episode, people like Mark, people like laws being like, no, Caleb say this thing specifically. It was not me. It was them. If they hadn't have literally coached me through my pitch, I would have given up nearly. I would have been like, I'm done. Cause I couldn't think of what to say. I couldn't.

[02:06:57] And like, it also comes off the bat of, I had really kept my moves as secret as I could. Right. So then all of a sudden coming to now air out all of my dirty laundry and say how much better I am than all of you. I just, I couldn't do it. Yeah. And then. You know, Keely coached me through laws, coached me through Mark coached me through at one point, even cam was like, you know, Caleb, I kind of feel like you blindsided most of us. And I go, I did.

[02:07:26] And he goes, well then, you know, elaborate. So I guess that's a testimony to my social game. Yeah. I guess that's a testimony to the bonds that I created along the way. Um, and I guess at the end, that is what led me to winning the game. Yeah. I mean, the jury started and ended with you making these like eviscerating blindsides on people who had 100% trust in you.

[02:07:52] And not only were they the most locked in votes for you, Caleb, they were two of the people most actively championing for you to win. And they were pulling you out of that rut saying, no, we need to vote for you. The person who is responsible for both of us sitting on the jury right now, if that does not speak to what you're able to cultivate between these, you know, various people that you didn't know from a hole in the wall a month and a half ago. I don't know what else does. Yeah, I agree.

[02:08:18] Um, they, they saw me visibly struggling and at that point of the game, they knew that I had moves that I wasn't claiming and they wanted me to win, but they wanted me to claim these moves. And this is what they've told me. They go, we, we were happy to vote for you, but we wanted you to own it, own it a little bit. And so I think that's why they were kind of, you know, putting me in that right direction.

[02:08:46] Um, I, I blindsided Keely and Keely wanted me to claim that move as well. I remember Blanche saying, you know, did you really mean when you had said this to me and you had said that to me? And I go, Blanche, me and you, I could tell you a million things about Blanche to you where Jackson couldn't tell you one. So all of these little, little things.

[02:09:12] And they, they also knew my personality because I had won challenges before, like, you know, getting out of redemption beach. I had done good things and I had never gloated about it. I had never claimed it. I'd never been like, look at me. So they knew that I was never going to be like, I played a game better than all of you because they knew that's just not my style. And so I think in doing that, they, they were pretty prepared to almost coach me from going in there. That's what a few people have said.

[02:09:43] So what was your headspace by the time things ended then? Did you feel like you had fully recovered? Were you still feeling mixed on how you performed overall and how that might make a bearing on if you want or not? No, I did hit a stride towards the end where it started. I started going, okay. And that really happened after Loz told me to claim the move because then I started finding my legs again and I started to, to, you know, figure out.

[02:10:10] I'm like, oh, Jackson punched down on so many people. I played a game that I never had to be mean. I never had to punch down on people. I could say a million things about you, Sally. I could say a million things about all of you. Yeah, I did this. I did that. I, I, you know, I played an amazing double agent game here and here and people are like, thank you. And so towards the end, I was like, I think I brought it back. And that was a feeling that I'll never forget. Yeah.

[02:10:40] So as you begin, what ends up being a very long wait before the votes are actually revealed, how confident were you given how things ended leaving tribal council? Did you feel like you had at least five to lock this thing up? I was hopeful, but I also knew that whenever you think, you know, what's going on in the game of survivor, it kicks you up your ass. And this season. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:11:09] And I was very scared to act confident. So for the six months of not knowing, I was like, Caleb, do not think about numbers. Don't think about if you've won. In fact, I was almost convincing myself that I was losing, that I had lost and anything else that happens is a blessing. So I guess I, I was hopeful, but I wasn't confident is a way to put it.

[02:11:37] Well, I wonder if your opinion was colored one way or the other by the fact that you got to watch this all back, obviously leading into the reunion. And it's so interesting. You know, certainly there were people that, that clocked you possibly from the beginning, but certainly your arc, especially from an Australian survivor winner perspective is a very unconventional one. Very fitting for you, Caleb, that it really seemed to be like, okay, here are these big players running things early on. You don't need to necessarily be that. You just have to make the right moves at the right time.

[02:12:07] So what was it like for you watching this all back? Did that move the needle for you either way of like, okay, am I winning this? Am I not winning this? That is such a good question. Cause that happens so much watching it. Mate, I remember calling and texting Jackson being like, you've got it. You all got the winning edit. You've won. And then the next day going, oh, maybe I've got it. Oh, maybe I don't.

[02:12:32] It was literally so hard to even me decide if I had won or not, because like you said, it was such an unconventional edit. And there was so many times, like there was, I think a few episodes where I like you saw one second of me, especially at the start. And I'll go, oh, it was just such an up and down rollercoaster watching it back where sometimes I was confident and other times I wasn't.

[02:13:00] And then I'm watching everyone, you know, inspired to get me out. And it was, it was a wild experience in itself. And it all came to a beautiful end though. Now let me connect this all the way back to the theme of the season. Do you feel like you found your redemption in like some particular moment out there on the island or was winning sort of your own form of redemption, right? The idea that people underestimated me my whole life.

[02:13:29] They think I'm this weirdo. And now the weirdos are the ones who rule the day. It literally, it was such an amazing feeling. I found my redemption arc in the game because as a kid, I knew that I was the guy you saw out on Survivor. But, but the, you know, the, the weight of adulthood and the pressures of life, they,

[02:13:53] they, they put other things in, in place before you can be that guy. As in like, you know, the, the, the pressures of getting up every day and going to work. And I still knew that I would be able to flourish out on an Island and, you know, cause I loved Bear Grylls. I loved Steve Irwin as a kid, but you can't, not everyone has that opportunity to really see their true self.

[02:14:21] And out there, I was so happy that I was still the same Caleb. I knew I was inside. And, um, that was my redemption, um, my redemption arc in itself. And then to win and to be able to do stuff like quit my job and go and study to live the life that I've always dreamed of living. And yeah, it just, I couldn't ask for a most more amazing opportunity. Yeah.

[02:14:50] I was going to ask, what did you do with the winnings? Obviously a lot has gone into your education, but have you spent it in any other fun places? Um, look, obviously, you know, paying the mortgage off, which was 200 K, which leaves me with three. Um, there's a lot of, uh, plans and adventures that I've got coming up that I want to do, which, you know, I'm sure the world will see. So there's going to be some exciting times coming up. Yeah.

[02:15:17] I want to talk more about that because obviously, you know, Shannon and I were able to discover some of your very interesting exploits, uh, prior to survivor. I mean, that's arguably a reason why you're a cast, right? As your friend sent in these videos. Is that something that you've just always kind of been interested in is creating content around all of your shenanigans? Yeah. I mean, I've always, always been like that. And then I felt like I should be filming this stuff. Like I come from the country where these country boys were crazy. They were just doing wild.

[02:15:47] It was just always filming us having drinks and just being crazy. Um, you know, I've kind of shifted a little bit from that these days. I think you're not setting your hair on fire anymore. I'm not setting my hair on fire anymore. But what I am doing is I'd love to find the biggest adrenaline rush for me, whether that is, you know, going in a fighter jet or base jumping or bungee jumping.

[02:16:13] I don't know what it is, but I'm out there to go around the world to find the ultimate adrenaline high. And I think that is pretty on brand for me. Um, also there's so much knowledge about animals that people don't know about all of our unloved, like the underdogs of the animals, the creepy crawlies or the animals in the deep in the abyss, they all deserve to have their, have their moment.

[02:16:42] And, uh, for the information to be, I feel like that's my calling. And, um, now I might have my foot in the door to be able to go to places like Madagascar and show these crazy iguanas or chameleons and things like that. So yeah, I'm really excited for what the future holds. Yeah. What was it like for you to be able to connect? I imagine with nature and with animals. I know you told me the story about the gecko with the ridge back when the first time that

[02:17:12] we talked, but like, I imagine as much of a passion as you may have had for some of those creepy crawlies, it's another thing to be able to like actually live alongside them for 45 days. Well, that's where I guess the chaos came from the jungle. I would watch the jungle and realize just how wild it is. You're hearing the birds, they yell, but then you look at, you know, the ocean and rivers and realize the river doesn't argue with rocks. It just flows around them.

[02:17:41] And with times like Jackson, where I could have got angry and I could have made a fool of myself. I just float around it. And I was able to use the chaosness of the jungle and the calmness of the ocean. And, you know, I was constantly using nature as part of my game. And I think we could all learn from nature and we could learn from what's around us.

[02:18:06] I really do believe that because so many times, so many people become disconnected to reality and just how beautiful things are around us. And that really helped me in my game. Just waking up every morning, sitting on a rock and just watching the ocean go or just giving yourself five minutes to reflect. Think, oh, maybe that conversation that person has just said to me is a lie. Or maybe they were telling the truth.

[02:18:34] You need to unwind and reflect. If you don't give yourself that time, sometimes you can just get lost in the madness of it all. And, yeah, those little times of just studying nature, it really brings you back down to we are all a part of this wild game that we call life, you know? So beautifully said. The last thing I have to ask, Caleb, is how much do you want to send yourself back into

[02:19:02] another wild game? You are one for one in terms of survivor seasons. So far, would you ever want to come back and submit yourself to the madness once more? Look, I am ready for that challenge. I think it will be a challenge trying to be our attorney. I know, of all the ironies, right? There's going to be your own little mini Caleb who's going to come in and talk about how now this is their $500,000.

[02:19:31] Exactly. And look, I welcome it all. I welcome the challenge. I think that I can't say it now, but I think I've been thinking of a pitch if I ever go back to possibly help the group along. But, yeah, I'm open for everything. So let's ride till the wheels fall off. Let's do it again. All right. Well, that secret pitch aside, what do you think would be the biggest thing you would change between your first time on Survivor and Impossible Second?

[02:19:59] Look, I want to be someone who people might be able to trust more in the fact of like with sensitive information. We saw me get kept out of votes because they didn't know maybe how I would act. You know, I was kept out of the Lottie vote because Keely couldn't really trust me of not telling Lottie.

[02:20:22] So I want to be someone who is a little bit more consistent with my personality and someone that you might be able to rely on in the future. Yeah, I think that would. I also want to play a game where I am working with more people and banding people together from the start. I think, look, I played my game a lot in the shadows this time.

[02:20:50] If I was going to do it again, I would want to do it a bit more like. Yeah, I would want to play a bit harder and try and see if I can make some some groups again. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see if I can make some solid alliances. Well, even if you felt you played in the shadows, thank you for bringing this all into the light. I mean, it's a weird but fitting word to use for someone who obviously has such a big passion for the world around us.

[02:21:15] But I think you are a natural in terms of not only your ability to be authentic and obviously build these very important game winning relationships, but also the ability to sort of still have your head screwed on and be able to sometimes make some of the most emotionally difficult decisions you possibly could in pursuit of what you thought was the right decision for your game in that moment. I know you said that, you know, you did not want to be forgotten. And Caleb, you have my guarantee.

[02:21:44] You will never be forgotten. You have filled us with way too much stuff to think about, to talk about for years to come, including from this very interview. So thank you. Yeah, I feel so honored to get the chance to talk with you, man, because I think that you being able to both give some insights into some things that we saw, some things that we didn't see, reasons behind some of the things that we saw. But again, speaking towards, I think you're very grounded nature, despite again, how the chaos Caleb can come out. You're a man of order, like you said.

[02:22:14] And I think your ability to discuss what the method was to your madness was so appreciated on mine and I think a lot of people's as well. So I wish you the most massive congratulations. And it brings me so much joy to know that this has been a life-changing experience and a career changing experience at that. Yeah. Odyssey, thank you so much for saying that. That is like the best compliment I've ever had.

[02:22:39] And I can easily say from being a player myself and all the fans would say it as well, what you do, this podcast, the time that you've put into it, it's just so amazing. It literally, it puts an insight and another just angle into the game for us all. So what you do, mate, you know, you sacrifice your own time and I couldn't be, I couldn't be more grateful. So thank you so much. What you do is amazing. Oh my God. Thank you.

[02:23:09] That really, that means the world. And listen, this did not feel like work whatsoever. You know, there's a lot of sleep that was lost trying to figure out what the hell y'all were doing, but I would not have it any other way. Uh, I cannot think of a more fitting way to close out a chaotic season like this with Caleb chaos himself, because the mayhem that you and those other 23 people were able to bring to that beach. I think it's going to be really tough to match that with any other season.

[02:23:38] I cannot wait to see what your win in your gameplay is going to inspire from survivor AU players to come. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much, Mike. It was a, it's been a pleasure. Honestly. From everyone. Well, in case what people want to follow all the stuff you've got going on, on social media, like you said, you'll be posting plenty of content out there of all your various adventures. How can people do so? Yeah. Follow me on Instagram. I'll be uploading constant to there.

[02:24:04] Um, come and join the ride because it's only starting. Let's go. All right. Well, I'm strapping in right now as I get ready to ride the long, long roller coaster that is going to be this off season. But luckily Caleb's going to keep us well fed throughout. Caleb again. Thank you so much, man. An absolute pleasure. Thank you all so much for listening, for following not only this entire postseason process, but

[02:24:32] the entire season overall, this was just an immense pleasure across the board and it's doomed, you know, chiefly to you, Caleb and the cast. So thank you to all the castaways who came on here, who offered their various insights. Uh, I had the time of my life gang to do this. Yeah. It's been awesome. And thanks to all the fans out there. I've got the most amazing messages from people. Honestly, the show couldn't exist without them and you.

[02:25:01] So honestly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you to everyone. Seriously. Ditto could not have said it better myself. All right, everybody. That's going to do it. Thank you so much for checking this out. Until next season, everybody. Take care. Bye bye. Bye bye.