Why ___ Lost: Survivor 48 Ep 9 with Lindsay Carmine

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[00:00:35] Jessica will turn it around. They'll break down the rules and we'll show you how. You played yourself and got voted out. This is why blank lost. This is why blank lost. This is why blank lost.

[00:01:03] Welcome back to Why Blank Lost. I'm David Bloomberg and no matter what Shaheen says, I will not shut up. I'm David. Now, Jessica is unfortunately traveling today and wasn't able to make it for the podcast tonight. But with me is a great returning guest who has a lot of experience on this podcast to sub for her.

[00:01:30] To the point that she rewatched the whole season so far to prepare. It is Lindsay Carmine from Survivor 43. Oh, what a fun welcome. Hi, David. How are you? Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Just as long as you don't echo what Shaheen said there, you know. I won't. I won't. I feel like it's been so long since we've talked.

[00:01:56] I feel like in other seasons, you and I are usually like talking on Twitter and we're texting each other and we're seeing each other at events. But this year I or the season, I just I haven't been as involved. I haven't been able to attend any of the events. And I've just had like life stuff come up on nights that I would normally like stay home and watch it. And so I've had to be a little bit separated.

[00:02:20] So this is going to be kind of interesting because I don't I haven't been able to listen to the podcast this season, which I think this is the first time since like 2017 that I haven't listened to like literally every single Rob has a podcast survivor content that they put out. So so this is going to be interesting. And I don't know what your opinion is of the season. I don't know what your opinion is of the players. So, yeah, we've got a lot of catching up to do. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:02:48] And you you picked, you know, a heck of an episode to join us. Another reason seems like so long is like I think last season you were on very early in the season and here we are much later in the season. Yeah. You know, I think we might have a few things to say about David's game. And, you know, the funny thing is that on Blue Sky, as soon as the episode was over, I heard from a number of different people saying David obviously had a rule blank problem.

[00:03:16] And each person had a different rule in the blank when they said it. And the thing is, they were all correct. So, you know, to figure out, you know, where he had the most problem, we will, of course, go through all of my rules for winning that I originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since.

[00:03:38] And find out how David didn't each of them using all the non spoiler information available to us from what we saw on TV interviews, social media and secret scenes. The newest published version of the rules can be found by going to Rob has a website that com slash YX lost feed and clicking on the link bubble for the survivor rules. Now, before we address how David did in terms of the rules, we always have some other things to discuss. And I want to start with the episode itself.

[00:04:06] I can't remember being so on edge leading up to a vote before like I wanted to fast forward through tribal council just to get to the results. But watching it live, it's kind of hard to do because it seemed throughout the episode that this was a let's watch the downfall of this player type of edit. You know, occasionally they do that.

[00:04:33] And the thing is, this whole season, the editors have been like hiding information like last minute decision changes and then pulling the rug out from under us at tribal council. So going in, I truly was not sure if David would be going until Jeff started pulling out those votes. And I do have to say it's so much nicer when this happens, we get.

[00:05:00] We get to see what's going on, we get to see the decisions and it's not production spending a bunch of time trying to trick us. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I feel like the frustrating part is that ever since people have been looking for like a winner's edit. Mm hmm.

[00:05:18] And I think with Egic, I think the editors are trying so hard to prevent us from being able to see who wins that it's kind of hurting the game from a viewer standpoint. Um, but also from like a player standpoint, I think, I think when you break things up the way that they do and you miss so much information, you know, it is frustrating as a viewer, but it's frustrating as a player too.

[00:05:44] And, um, I'm just, I'm wondering like how much farther can they go to hide information from us, to be able to give us that element of like suspense or surprise, or, um, I'm so tired of the word blind side at this point. Um, because even if they try to present it to us, the viewers as a blind side, or, or even some of the players call it as a blind side, heck, some of the people that get voted out are calling it a blind side when in all actuality, it wasn't.

[00:06:12] I mean, I wasn't surprised, um, when I saw who was voted out, but I kind of felt like the previous episode had set us up for that. Right. Right. You know, way for him to dig himself out of the hole that he got himself in. Yeah. I mean, my biggest surprise was that the editors didn't, like I said, pull the rug out from under us again. Yeah. But some of the things they're hiding, it's like, okay, I understand last week. They didn't want to make it obvious that Chrissy was going.

[00:06:42] Right. But it turns into these arguments online and maybe it's my own fault for engaging in them with people being like, well, Chrissy shouldn't have spoken up at that tribal council. That's why she was like, no, no. No, they had that in the bag. That's what was set before she ever got there. Yeah. She could have said literally anything and it would not have mattered.

[00:07:05] Now, it's good, you know, for, you know, ongoing employment of this podcast because we have to explain why people lost when, when they hide certain things. But it can still get frustrating. Um, now speaking of frustrating, I think that it was probably a bit frustrating to the players and some of the viewers.

[00:07:26] Uh, when we look into or look at the challenge that was this episode and look, it was another showdown between David and Joe. Yeah. Um, you know, so it was, I mean, there were players were making comments about it and many of us were pretty sure David would win. I mean, I based my prediction last week that David would win and you know, where would we go from there?

[00:07:54] Sure. So we kind of all shared the look on Shaheen's face when he literally jumped off the bench when David accidentally stepped off and lost it. Yeah. I mean, and I think that's, those are times in the game where you can't help but let your emotions take control. Right. Um, but I don't know if there's a comment in there for me to respond to, but, um, I'm like, am I answering your question?

[00:08:24] Um, I, I, I thought he was going to win, but I I'm sure they're glad that Joe's in there. Right. Right. Right. So, and then it was good to see Joe, uh, pick Mitch for the food reward, even though he's not in the Alliance, which I think supports the idea that Joe is just a good guy, you know?

[00:08:44] And, and, and, you know, you also gotta love him not picking David after David specifically said he picked Joe, which was what led to the comment about Shaheen telling him to shut, well, saying shut up. You know? Yeah. I mean, I was surprised he didn't pick David. So. I was too, but I was also surprised he didn't pick Eva right away. Um, cause you never know. He couldn't pick her. I think he knew he couldn't pick her. Yeah. Yeah. And David's been on a lot of food rewards. Let's be honest. Yes.

[00:09:14] Yes. I mean. So, I mean, I don't, you know, we never saw David griping about that. We saw him griping about plenty of other things, but, uh, not, not about that in particular. So I don't think he was too upset. I mean, it's hard to be upset when they were literally talking about how Mitch had not been on any rewards yet. Yeah. And the poor man's wasting away, you know? I mean, they, they had all these great challenges he could do well at in the tribe phase. And then nothing since then that, you know, it's like where are the balls I can throw?

[00:09:45] Come on. I know. I'm surprised they put those two challenges back to back. Yeah. So, so yeah, as you know, I, I mentioned David was complaining, you know, he was after he lost, he was really moping around talking about how he could have won. And then, which, you know, not a good look. And then when they got back to camp, he continued. And Mary was basically agreeing with him, which I thought was weird. Like, yes, you should have won it. Yes. That's very frustrating.

[00:10:14] Like, that's not really consoling him. Um, you know, what was she supposed to say? I don't know. In that situation. Worry about it. It happens. Something else. Not like, yes, you should have won it, you know? And then also, you know, when it looked like she was patting him on the back, she was actually checking to make sure her marionette strings were still there. That was a special. I mean, she, she did definitely control him the last two episodes. I was impressed. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:45] So. So, all right. Well, did you have anything or anyone else you want to discuss before we get to the rules? Uh, Shaheen. Uh, but again, I'm, I'm scared to talk about it too soon. Cause I have a feeling it's going to fit in, um, to the rules, but, um, let's see where there was something Shaheen said that I really enjoyed. And actually I'm going to wait until we get to one of the rules to talk about it.

[00:11:15] Okay. Um, but if, if people don't get him pretty quickly, I think he might run away with it. Yeah. Yeah. It's, he hasn't, he has a very interesting edit because he says things very confidently that are wrong, but, but he's also a lot of fun and he's doing things that end up being right.

[00:11:42] You know, but like we began this episode with him saying, well, the reason Chrissy lost was because she came after me. Like, no, it literally had nothing to do with it, you know? And then there was something else later in the episode that he said, and it was like, no, that's not right either. But. Right. But do you think he's right? And we're just not getting all the information? Like, is there, is there a world where like Chrissy was going after him and we just didn't get to see it?

[00:12:11] No, I don't think so. I mean, he made that conclusion because people told him that and because she wrote his name down. Yeah. You know, and that really, you know, had nothing to do or very little to do with it. And then, but then he gets this like mastermind edit also of going back in time and planting seeds and stuff. So I don't know. I don't know what's going on with his edit. It's very entertaining though. I love it.

[00:12:40] He's, he's one of my winner picks in my fantasy pool. So I'm having fun watching him and it was really fun to not only see him say like, you know, he put this plan into motion days in advance, but CBS gave us receipts. CBS showed us exactly what he was talking about.

[00:12:57] Now, there could be some truth to that, but I've, I've seen in other seasons where people will let something happen and then they go back and they say that that was intentional, even if it wasn't, but we won't get into that. I think we might be discussing that today. Maybe. Maybe, yes. So, all right.

[00:13:23] Well, if you don't have anything else, there were of course other things going on and I have already put some and we'll be putting more into my YouTube short at David Bloomberg TV. But of course, before we get to how David did want to mention that the rules are available in a shorter and much more colorful version. I always stumble over colorful. I don't know why. Colorful. Colorful. There's lots of going on there.

[00:13:49] You know, after all this time, if I keep stumbling over it, you'd think that I just changed the word and what I say. But, you know, I keep trying. But anyway, go to robhaswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed. Scroll down to the poster, click on it and order it. And there'll be a whole bunch of orders waiting for Jessica when she gets back from her travel. In addition to the poster, you can keep scrolling and get the poster on a T-shirt and the checklist on a T-shirt.

[00:14:18] So, again, go to robhaswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed and click away. Click it. All right. Well, David said in his final words, there are no heroes. There are no villains. We're just people. And we're all going to be heroic one day and villains the next. And while that doesn't apply universally, it certainly described his time in the game.

[00:14:48] But he also said, unfortunately, I don't think there was anything I could do. And he was definitely wrong there because there certainly were things he could have done or not done. And frankly, there were more than a few of them. So let's dive in because at RHAP, we know Survivor and we know why David lost. Let's go. We are Teresa and Nemo.

[00:15:17] And that's why we switched to Shopify. The platform, the we used before Shopify, has used regularly updates, which have sometimes led to the shop that didn't work. Our Nemo Boards shop makes our mobile devices a good figure. And the illustrations on the boards come now much clearer, what is important to us and what our brand is also made. Start your test today for 1 Euro per month on Shopify.de.

[00:15:45] The first and most important rule is to scheme and plot. And note that I didn't say the first rule is to be honest and loyal and have integrity. Weird, huh? So that's why I'm wearing this shirt backwards today. Okay? Because normally, see, normally the way you wear it, as I could show in this image here, the front says honesty, loyalty, integrity.

[00:16:15] And that's because scheme and plot, like I'm wearing, that normally goes on the back because that's what you do behind people's back. And, you know, but for this podcast, it clearly needs to be front and center as a reminder. Scheme and plot. Yes. Through his whole time in the game and even after, David continued to wrongly assert that

[00:16:44] the game could be won in his particular way. He said in this episode, I think that there is a path to win by being honest and being true to your word. Maybe they'll get to the end and we'll see something we've never seen before. But here's the thing. There's a reason we haven't seen it before. It doesn't work. He continued that he wanted to prove this game can be played more than one way. And yes, I've said it before. It can be played more than one way.

[00:17:14] It just can't be won that way. You can play it any way you want. But there's certain ways that you can play that you cannot win doing it that way. And he has become another data point to help prove. Fair. Fair. But maybe there is a way to win that way. And maybe it can be done. It just hasn't been done yet.

[00:17:44] Hear me out. He said at the beginning, he said, we go after the common enemies first. And I thought that was great. Okay. So like, even if you don't have the same alliances, everyone usually has a common enemy there. And he said, and then eventually we'll get to the point where we have to start going after each other. And we know that that's going to happen.

[00:18:08] But why can't we have a final five or a final six that is just built with the strongest physical players in the game? And you could. And this is something that your castmate, your tribe mate James has been talking about for a long time.

[00:18:28] The problem is you have to get those people who are all big threats, recognize the others as big threats, but also want to go to the end to against each other and not flip on them. The problem is you can't do all of that with honesty, integrity, loyalty. You can't. And, you know, David even continued to insist you can win Survivor by playing an honest game in his interviews.

[00:18:56] He told Dalton Ross that something similar to what you said, that he thought that they were well on their way to proving it could be done. And I'm like, yeah, till you got voted out by your supposed allies in ninth place. That's not exactly close to a win here, David. Right. But if he had not pulled Mary into the fold, don't you think it would have continued down the path that they were going?

[00:19:22] Well, and so you said the key word if because he added to Dalton, I think if I were still in the game, then at least I personally would have rode all the way to the end with Joe and Eva. And if it was us in the final three, then obviously that prediction would have come true. So if he were still in and if he stuck with them and if they stuck with him and if everything else went the way that he wanted it, then he would have proven it.

[00:19:49] Now, I know it's the wrong season, but as the saying goes, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas. I'm just saying it could happen. That's all I'm saying. If we have a million, you blame anybody but himself. And I don't think it started when he started turning on Kyle and Camilla. That would have been an issue later on down the road. Right.

[00:20:16] I think the issue was when he decided to bring in Mary. Mary wasn't part of their core five. I mean, I love that they have that bond, but you you you broke up the core five by bringing in a six. Yes. Yeah. And then you get mad at Kyle for having the exact same thing going on that you've got going on. Yes. I have that categorized as a rule two issue. We can get we can. OK, we can stick with scheme and plot.

[00:20:45] OK, so I love that he said his scheming and plotting was was very like unifying, I guess, inclusive because he's saying I'm not going after everyone. We're going to start going with the common enemy first. I think that's a good scheming and plotting plan. Yes. I think that's a great way to ease into the game. Right. The alliance should be doing that. That is correct. OK. All right. And then he had a conversation with Shaheen and Mary. He wasn't very aggressive about it.

[00:21:14] This was when he was trying to convince Sheen that he was going to be the like dummy vote. And Shaheen started getting paranoid. I think David did a great job by saying, like, I can't remember who it was that didn't have a vote. And he was like, we don't have to worry about that anyway. He kind of diffused the situation. I thought he handled that situation great. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:38] And I mean, there were some situations that he, you know, as forming an alliance, he did handle OK. Mm hmm. But it it just all went to hell the last two days and continue. See, this is the thing that gets me. He continues to put forward these ideas, even in his interviews today. Right. Like so he told all I mentioned some quotes already.

[00:22:05] He he told me because I haven't heard any of it. And, you know, I normally come in and I've got like all the exit view exit. You had to rewatch the whole season. I literally have not. I know nothing. So tell me, give me give me all of it. So he said to Dalton and other interviews, he said it's survivor. Right. When you say honest, it's like this is your core group. These are the people I'm going to stick with. And I'm going to lie as little as possible.

[00:22:31] But you have to every once in a while send a lie or tell a lie to someone on the outs. So basically what he's saying is you can win by playing an honest game if you're not actually honest and you redefine the word to include being allowed to lie whenever he wants to whomever he wants. So as the Saturday Night Live church lady would say, how convenient. Oh, my God.

[00:23:01] I haven't heard that in forever. Yes. Yeah. I think I think the mistake isn't the way that you lie or don't lie. I think the mistake is saying I'm playing a loyal and honest game. I think if you rephrase it and say I want to play the most honest game I can in a game of survivor, because even when you don't want to lie to somebody, you know, a perfect

[00:23:27] example is like when you're having to tell a third party, you know, you don't want to you don't want to lie to them, but you also don't want them to go tell the person that you're voting out. And so by default, you have to lie to them. Those are still lies. Right. That's still a dishonest game. I mean, we started this episode with him coming to Camilla after after tribal council and saying, hey, I'm sorry.

[00:23:57] I want to come clean. I floated your name because in case Chrissy played her shot in the dark. Yeah. Well, Camilla already knew from Kyle that that was complete BS. Yeah. And and it also didn't even make sense because if Chrissy had played a shot in the dark, she didn't have a vote then. So there was no reason to float another name. Yeah. And and so and Camilla called him out to his face and said, that's OK, you're a terrible

[00:24:23] liar, you know, and, you know, and then ranted about him some more, which I love. And, you know, he he just he redefines the word and he continues to do that. And then in his interviews, he dug his hole further by saying, I do believe there's a path to forming an alliance, even as many as five or six and riding them all the way to the end. I haven't seen all the survivor seasons, so I'm not sure if that has been done before.

[00:24:52] But yeah, I think this is possible even in the new era. And I'm like, oh, you missed Survivor 45 and the Reba alliance doing exactly that. You missed Survivor 44 and the Tiki 3 alliance doing exactly that. Those are just two off the top of my head. Like, I didn't even have to think to pull those out, which suggests to me that even for the seasons he watched, he did not actually understand what was happening.

[00:25:24] I go back and forth because, you know, it's really interesting in the in the seasons past that I've been a guest on your show. I've normally been at the beginning of a season. And so usually I only have like a couple of episodes worth of content. I usually don't go back and have to rewatch because I've seen it within a couple of weeks. So the past couple of days have been really interesting because I started at the very beginning

[00:25:48] and I intentionally watched David and there was a point that I said, OK, I want you to write down at what at what period and what episode did things turn? And he got voted out in the ninth episode. And I'd say by like episode seven and a half, I think I think we're like over halfway into the seventh episode. He was playing an amazing game. I thought to myself, I don't have anything negative to say about David's game.

[00:26:17] I mean, he's playing a great game. He's playing the middle. He's handling things. He's not aggressive. He's not too passive. I constantly looked during when he was having conversations with people and they were trying to make decisions. I was like, OK, is he the decision maker? Is he the one that like sits back and doesn't say a ton? He's right there in the middle. Sometimes he's the one that's sitting back and not saying anything. He's playing the supporting role. But then sometimes he's having to be the bad guy and say what everyone else is thinking. But he says it in a nice way. The things that he's saying isn't polarizing. He gets along with everybody.

[00:26:47] For the most part, he's on the right side of the vote. So so anything that I say. Yes. So I just David, if you're listening, if there is anything that I say negative about your game, you made it farther than me. And I really don't think things got bad until, you know, the last two episodes. So, yeah. And I think part of that is and we'll go into it more as we get to the different rules.

[00:27:13] He just he spiraled, you know, because up until that point, things were going swimmingly for him. He never had to go to tribal. I mean, it's what he never went to tribal council. I know. And tribal council. But I'm just saying, like, I can't imagine ever being a player that's like in the perfect position to go all the way to the end. And then they downward spiral and they get accused of paranoia and then they get voted out. I wouldn't know anything about that. But that just sounds absolutely horrible. Yeah.

[00:27:43] Yeah. That's that's crazy. I don't know who would. Yeah. That would never happen. Now, going back and continuing our discussion. We'll talk more about that. Go ahead. Continuing our discussion about, you know, some of David's redefining of terms. And this is something else that I know other people have mentioned as well. What happened to his original core Siva alliance? You know, the one Chrissy was in. Where was his loyalty to them?

[00:28:13] Oh, it got supplanted by another alliance. Once again, how convenient. Yeah. But why should he have to stick with his initial alliance when he knows? But he's not saying he's going to. He chose the people that he wants to stay loyal to. Well, exactly. Right.

[00:28:34] But if you if you are truly playing an honest, loyal, integrity game and you have an alliance pre swap, you should come back to that alliance after the swap. You're loyal to them. Did you notice how many players not in his core five all thought that he was with them? Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. Mitch and Chrissy, because they believe his claims of loyalty. And Camilla thought that.

[00:29:04] Right. And so if if he were if he were a different player and he weren't on his high horse claiming these things, I would be sitting here saying you had them all fooled. Great job. But you can't have them all fooled. And be proclaiming honesty and loyalty. No, no. And the way that that would look. Right. So so let's say I'm on a beach with six people or six people beach.

[00:29:33] So there's technically five people that I'm talking to. One of the hardest parts was I tried to play a somewhat honest game. I didn't want to lie if I didn't have to. Right. But what what then happens is you you drive wedges between you and that player. Case in point is Ryan and I, Gio and I, I never wanted to lie to Gio. So instead of lying to him, we just didn't have a conversation that would require me to lie. But that backfired on me.

[00:30:02] Same thing with Ryan. Ryan and I never talked strategy ever again. He's such a kind person. I didn't want to lie to him. But it backfires because if you're not strategizing, you're either lying to them, you're playing both sides or you're I don't know what the third one would be.

[00:30:22] But I just can't see a world where if you continue to not lie to people, they either don't turn against you because you're not playing with them or you don't eventually at some point have to lie to them. Right. And that's what happened. He happened to be in the majority. And so when Chrissy turned against him, when Mitch turned against him earlier, it didn't matter because he had the majority. And so he could just get rid of Chrissy and tell her off.

[00:30:51] You know, but it don't again, don't claim to be loyal and then get rid of people who you were once claiming to be loyal to. And also one more thing, as Rachel Darwin pointed out to me on Blue Sky, Kyle, he kept talking about Kyle was his number one. But a few minutes ago, I mentioned he said in interviews he was planning to go to final three with Joe and Eva. So another alliance was replaced by Mr. Loyalty. One more time.

[00:31:20] How convenient. But do you think he would have continued to stay loyal to Kyle if Kyle didn't show so many obvious signs of being loyal to Camilla? Because I got to be honest with you. If I'm in a core five alliance and we're talking about who we want to vote out and somebody is adamant about not wanting to vote somebody else out. And don't get me wrong.

[00:31:50] Kyle was correct. My frustration is that everyone's saying, I don't understand why Kyle wanted that. I don't understand. Kyle made it perfectly clear. He said numerous times why he wanted to keep Camilla. And it made sense. She wanted to work with them. Why would we vote out the person that wants to work with us? Right? Yes. And I think David was like, again, I'm assuming.

[00:32:16] I have to assume he was so enraged and his emotions took control and that he wasn't able to use logic when making decisions. But it was one of the first times that we saw him be really aggressive and unflexible, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. All things we'll get to more. Yeah. But yeah, it all intertwines. It's hard to talk about one without talking about the other. I know. I know. I'm trying.

[00:32:46] But it does link to kind of my last thought here in the first rule, which is he looked at the game through one lens for others and one for himself. And it continued in other ways. Like in his interviews, he frequently talked about how Joe and Eva, quote, were manipulated by Shaheen and Kyle. He told Mike Bloom that he was the one who was trying to fight for us to keep the alliance together. OK, and how was he doing that?

[00:33:15] By echoing and promoting everything that Mary said. But of course, he didn't mention the thought that maybe she was manipulating him. No, only the people who disagreed with him were being manipulated while he was always right. And it goes back to exactly what you just said about, well, if Kyle wants to keep Camilla, that's wrong. Well, why is it wrong? Because Mary, it's Mary's idea to get rid of Camilla.

[00:33:45] I just can't understand his attachment to Mary. I don't I don't understand why he didn't see that Mary is driving a wedge between him and the rest of his core five alliance. And we'll we'll get to. Well, I think we're ready to go into the second rule here now. A lot of a lot of information about Mary. A lot of his side of information, I'll say, about Mary came out in the interviews. We'll get to that.

[00:34:12] I think in my notes, it's near the end of rule two, because he did plenty of stuff on his own, even without Mary. But yeah, I mean, the thing is, since we basically well, at least I basically gave David a failing grade in the first rule. It might seem like he'd be OK for the second rule because it says not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret. But no, he managed to violate both in large part due to that second part. Keep.

[00:34:39] Hold on. Before before we get to the second part, what grade did you give him for scheme and plot? F. F. No, give him like give him like a C, C plus. Nope. Sorry. If you if you. He schemed and plotted. Well, he never schemed and plotted. He strategized. OK, we'll use it. We got we got. But we have to put that under scheme and plot, right?

[00:35:09] Because it doesn't fit anywhere else in the rules. OK, he he he strategized, but he wouldn't. And I want us calling it scheming and plotting. He strategized for the part of the game when he was never in danger. So it didn't matter. So, you know, and then when he actually got to be in danger. He spiraled and failed. So you can do all the homework you want and get A's on it.

[00:35:38] And if you fail the final exam, you get that. No, because if in the marking periods, one, two and three, you get A's and B's. And then in the fourth marking period, you fail miserably. You still pass the class. It depends on the depends on the class. All right. You can give an F. I'm going to give him a C plus on scheming and plotting. You are a generous grader. I wish I had more teachers like you.

[00:36:05] I've got too many kids grades that I'm looking at right now. We'll talk about the grade for scheming and plotting too much. OK, so the biggest part that he missed. Was keep your scheming secret, because David did not believe in that. He talked openly and repeatedly about the strong five or six, and he never attempted to hide it as just a couple examples.

[00:36:35] In this episode alone, he continued to brag after the Chrissy Tribal Council about how his strong alliance is a strong alliance without understanding that truly strong alliances using a different meaning of the word strong than he does. Don't go around bragging about it. And then he said in this tribal council, I was pretty public about my alliance. Everybody knows what's going on. We know where the alliances are. We know the people that are talking to one another.

[00:37:06] And we just have to accept that. No, no, you don't have to accept that. In fact, the main idea is not to have that happen at all. And Shaheen immediately said in response, if someone wants to take advantage of that, that is the way that Survivor is played. And he's right. Right. Rachel said in the On Fire podcast, you need to keep your majority alliance under wraps and let other players think they might be able to get into it.

[00:37:35] He never did that. He drew obvious lines. Chrissy talked in her interviews about how they were just gathering and talking in the open. That's why she had so much to say last week, because she knew exactly where she stood and it wasn't in the alliance. A good player in his situation would have pretended to be open to maintaining the SIVA alliance. So she wouldn't have been upset. And then he could have switched it if he needed to. He could have truly played the middle.

[00:38:05] But no, he thought he had his group. He did not believe anyone could impact them. And that was that. Boom. But we've seen this outcome before, right? Like people can play the game however they want. But if you show your cards too soon, there's going to be consequences. And we see what the consequences are based off of scenes from next episode. What happens?

[00:38:32] It's what happens when every majority alliance gets too cocky, gets too comfortable, shows their cards too soon. What do we see happen? We see the underdogs swoop in, work together and start and start breaking down the core alliance. And that's. Yeah, we'll get to that. I'm anticipating. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. I don't think that'll happen, but it's a good red herring, perhaps. Or maybe they're telling the truth. They told the truth last last preview.

[00:39:02] Who knows? So I think where David started to downward spiral and the whole like don't scheme and plot too much thing was when he had to make the decision between Cedric versus Shaheen. And he's talking about they're both beneficial to my game. I need to figure out like which one to cut. And it was at that moment that I started to kind of see like a downward trajectory and his scheming and plotting. And I felt like that was kind of the beginning at the end for his game.

[00:39:31] So basically, the first time he actually had to make a strategic decision. I mean, you said it. I did it. Yes. Now, you know, continuing with David's openness. I will talk later about where Stephen Fishback was wrong. I know it all. But he. Oh, what did he say? You got to tell me. Well, we'll get to it.

[00:39:56] But he was right here where he identified one issue David had as being that he simply couldn't restrain himself from saying what was on his mind. Now, Stephen also used an example I was going to mention that when the strong six came together in the morning and David, he initially said, I'm going to take a backseat this vote. And then like not two seconds later said, oh, but I know Mary wants Camilla out.

[00:40:26] And then he started pushing for that. So the backseat lasted like two seconds. You know, and Stephen actually gave me a hat tip and said, well, that's why David lost. And I appreciate the hat. But of course, it's not that simple, considering we've already gone through a bunch of other things and we're only partway. But the point stands that he seemingly could not help himself. You know, Kyle said it. It's David's way or the highway.

[00:40:53] No matter what David claimed, he could not sit in the backseat. Right. But I feel like it's such a transition or change from the David that we saw the first seven episodes. He wasn't pushy. He wasn't controlling. He was Mr. Kumbaya. He didn't have to vote for most of those. OK. I mean, he literally didn't have to vote until the merge.

[00:41:20] And the merge vote was, you know, he didn't really have to do a whole lot for that one. So, like you said, it was the first time was at the split tribal council that he really. Right. But you you usually see like red flags with other things, though. Right. Yeah. I mean, I mean. Why would he be controlling and other things? I'm just saying there's normally red flags. You normally see it coming. I didn't see this coming with him. I don't. I didn't. I mean, I knew.

[00:41:50] Frankly, I knew going into the game that he would lose because of the whole honor and honesty, integrity, loyalty thing. So, yeah, but you didn't think that he would eventually change the name of his game. You didn't. You didn't. I thought that as the game went on, we would see that story arc, which is like I wanted to play an honest game. I swore that I wouldn't lie. And but now I'm in this position where I have to do it and I have to backstab and then we see the tears and all that stuff. I anticipated going that way.

[00:42:18] I don't think I predicted that. I think I just predicted he would. You know, plus, obviously, with, you know, he even said in the preseason. I can't go under the radar. I, you know, you know, so. Yeah, but I don't think he wants to go under the radar. Well, he couldn't have if he wanted to. He talked about trying to reduce his threat level in other ways. This was, again, pregame. I know. And so, no, I did not think someone like him would be able to win.

[00:42:47] Did I think he would spiral like this in two episodes? No. No. You know, I mean, I was making videos joking about him. Just two weeks ago. And now I'm making videos that are like, you know, where he's a punching bag. So and the thing is, we just. Once he started spiraling, we saw it over and over again. He had to keep pushing, whether it was about Camilla or Kyle or Shaheen or even Joe.

[00:43:17] Oh, and yes, it is true that David pushing the Camilla idea did cause Kyle to show his hand. More obviously, such that David saw there was a reason Kyle was protecting her. OK, good. You noticed that. I think it was blatantly obvious. Sorry, Kyle. But, you know, the thing is, it also did him no good. I mean, you had that read, but it did you no good in the end. In fact, it was the opposite.

[00:43:47] Although Kyle and Camilla did have something going on. Two episodes ago, they wanted Shaheen out. If he would have just left it alone, you even mentioned it. That was what David was debating. Do I get rid of Cedric or Shaheen? Because Kyle and Camilla had planted the idea about Shaheen. David's behavior pushed the three of them to work together instead of against each other.

[00:44:14] And he and Mary pushed the idea that Kyle and Shaheen were against the rest of them so hard. It made Eva upset about him being paranoid. And she mentioned this multiple times and she just couldn't understand. Why are you constantly attacking my friends? I want my friends to be friends. Yeah, but I guess I can't understand why. It's OK to give some pushback.

[00:44:42] But when you start seeing resistance, not just from one person, but from numerous people. Again, I've never been put in that situation because I was voted out first and I tried. But if I was suggesting someone and everyone was giving me a little bit of pushback and they were giving another name, I would try to negotiate like, OK, great. We'll go with your person this time. And then next vote out, we'll go for Camilla.

[00:45:07] And if I'm noticing that Kyle is giving me some pushback, then I'm going to be like, OK, that's a red flag. I'm going to note that for later. I'm going to keep an eye on that situation. I've got my pulse on that. Let's go ahead and go with what other people want. And I get he's probably like they're going to warn Camilla. They're going to find a way for her to save her by the next vote out. But that's the beauty of Survivor. You just you just got to get to the next vote, right?

[00:45:36] You've got to survive that tribal council and then you'll worry about the next vote later. But I just I guess I can't understand why there was no like negotiating or trying to meet in the middle or I don't know. Well, they yeah, I mean, he and this goes back to the thing, you know, he and Mary had their idea. And even when when Kyle and then Joe later came back and said, hey, I want to do it this way. And and David was like, no, no.

[00:46:06] You know, and then eventually, obviously, they came back right before tribal council and said, no, David, we're overruling you. We're doing it. You know, we're doing Chrissy. And David wasn't happy about that, which led to in this episode, David really doing the thing he should not have questioning Joe's integrity. And, you know, we knew the second he did that, it was all over, right? Yes. Yes. I mean, I was still nervous, but yes.

[00:46:37] Now, we'll discuss some of this in rule five because it this issue straddles both rules. But just from a purely strategic standpoint, it showed that David's paranoia had so completely taken taken him over. And I think in Joe's mind. Looking at this, he's thinking, if David is telling me that I have lost my integrity, what's to stop him from coming after me?

[00:47:04] Well, OK, I think there's like so many different layers to this accusation, right? OK, number one. I hate being accused of something I didn't do. And I know that the general public thinks that the more you defend yourself when you're accused of something, that it means you actually did it. I disagree. If somebody accuses me of something like I will go to the grave fighting like my honor, my word, my loyalty.

[00:47:35] And I think, you know, similarly. Oh, my God. I just lost my train of thought. What were we talking about? Sorry. I know. I know. I'm 45. OK. Right. So with that, the second someone attacks like your character and they come after you, especially when you didn't do it, especially when like that is what your core values are based off of. Yeah. You're automatically going to like write that person off. Right.

[00:48:06] Yeah. And and I don't think David realized when he said it like that, that. Well, that was going to affect Joe so much. But as a viewer, I knew that. I knew that. Yes. And so you can't tell me that David didn't understand that he was going to hit a nerve. And Joe was already on edge with David, which I'm not sure if David even realized it.

[00:48:29] But like once once David started downward spiral, everyone's looking for a reason to want to vote him out. Everyone's looking, especially when it's Joe and Eva and they want to play a loyal game and they realize they hitched their horse to the wrong wagon. How do we undo that? You're looking. You're looking for a reason. Right. And David fed that to them. Yeah. Now getting to we'll get to what you said about.

[00:49:00] What David thought would happen in five, because he did actually say some things in his interview. And I think those are more social. Again, it straddles these different rules. Just it's all entangled. Yeah. But, you know, Rob and Steven said on know it all that it was a mistake for Joe to turn on David because he was essentially a shield. But I'm looking at this saying with the behavior David was displaying, Joe had to be wondering exactly what I just mentioned.

[00:49:29] How long before David turns on Joe the same way he turned on Kyle and Shaheen? Yeah. You know, and I know and you kind of referenced this earlier. Some people say David wasn't paranoid. He was right. And I'm glad you brought that up, David, because I'm just grabbing some matter for drink. I was like, oh, she has show and tell here. I'm like, no, I know. I'm just refilling my wine.

[00:49:58] I'm paranoid. Well, it's paranoid. Paranoid. And this is something I will frequently say. And I may have said it in, you know, the Why Lindsay Lost podcast. I don't remember. But I won't go back and watch it because I don't want to be traumatized. Yeah. It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

[00:50:24] But for David, not for you, for David, at this point in time, they were not out to get him. He said himself in interviews that his name hadn't come up. Yeah. Hold on. OK, but I need the timeline. Right. OK, so when I think David and you can correct me if I'm wrong, when I think David started to get paranoid was when he told Kyle he wanted to vote out Camilla and Kyle gave pushback.

[00:50:53] He immediately became paranoid. OK, because he's like, Kyle's working with Camilla. They're number ones. And they were. So how can we? I would put it sooner than that, because in his mind, which he was wrong about. That's what we need to go over. And again, this is what's tricky.

[00:51:10] The reason he wanted to go after Camilla was because he and Mary believe the Shaheen and Camilla were tight, despite the fact that Camilla had tried to throw Shaheen under the bus to him. So I don't know how he got that so messed up. But so I miss that. I I didn't think that David started worrying about Shaheen until he saw Kyle and Shaheen go off by themselves.

[00:51:39] No, the whole wasn't that when they were like, oh, they're missing the sunset. Yes, that was when he realized all three of them were working together. But which they were, which they were because he forced them to. Because until that point, the reason he wanted to go after Camilla was he was like Shaheen and Camilla are working together. I don't want to target the member of my own alliance, Shaheen. So let's weaken Shaheen by going after Camilla.

[00:52:06] Then Kyle, who was the actual person working with Camilla, was the one who was like, whoa, let's slow down here. OK, so what when when David came up with that idea, thinking Shaheen and Camilla were working together, I'm assuming that was influenced by Mary. Probably. Yes. And do you think. Mary saw a conversation, a couple of conversations like Mary. Yeah. I mean, why was it?

[00:52:36] It's what I'm saying. Are we missing stuff? Like, I'm very careful to accuse people of being paranoia, of being paranoid. If maybe there's something that we didn't see. But the thing is, whatever it was, none of this was actually coming after David. Now. It was going to happen at some later point, probably.

[00:53:00] But Kyle's plan, I think, was to continue to work with David and throw Shaheen under the bus to get rid of him. As a matter of fact, Kyle started planting those seeds as soon as the merge hit. As soon as David came to him and said, let's get this strong group together. Kyle said. OK, but keep an eye on Shaheen. He's sneaky. Which, I mean, they're they're all correct. And I don't mean sneaky in like a shady, creepy man way.

[00:53:29] I mean it as in like you can tell he's just on another level in terms of like playing. Yeah, he's a debate professor. Like he's a debate professor. And there's a reason why I picked him as my winner pick. And it's just he's just so incredibly charismatic. He's liked by everybody. He's not like this big muscular threat, but he's still hot. And that like lumberjack, rough, rugged way. I mean, my husband, Andy, sitting in the other room like I know shame.

[00:53:58] Like he can hear me talking about Shaheen. We have we have no issues with talking about like he's he's a very confident. Not too aggressive player. You know, he's somebody that could fly under the radar. Again, I'd be shocked if he didn't run away with the win. So I don't think they're going to let Joe get to the end. I don't think they're gonna let him get anywhere close to the end. But getting back to the whole paranoia. Yes, please.

[00:54:28] So he was paranoid about these people working together who were actually working against each other. But he kept pushing. Until it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. They had to work together because he assumed they were working together and he wanted to turn on them. So they had to all come together and be like, OK, now, Shaheen. To this day in the game, had no idea that Kyle and Camilla were working against him.

[00:54:56] So but they had to come together. It it was like the type of mistake you would find in classic literature. He was so worried about someone turning on him that he caused everyone to turn on him. He was like, OK, he was like the Rex of Survivor without the whole killing his father and marrying his mother. OK, so do you remember the conversation that Joe and Eva? I think it was Joe and Eva.

[00:55:22] I know it was Eva that said, like, she's very wary to turn on David just because he's paranoid. Do you remember that? Yes. And I thought to myself, it would have been really nice if my tribe had given me the same grace. And I wonder how much of my episode like affected.

[00:55:42] And like, I'm not trying to say I'm that important, but it'd be really cool if Eva was like, OK, we learned that, like, just because someone gets paranoid doesn't mean you completely vote them out because there's still an option. There's still a number. You just got to resettle them. What I'm confused with is why we didn't see more of people trying to reel David back in. Or do you think they were just like, he's so unhinged right now that like it's not even worth it?

[00:56:10] I think we did see them trying to reel him in. We saw and I'll talk about this later. I don't remember what rule it's in. Yeah. We saw Kyle come to him the next morning and be like, hey, I just want to, you know, say I'm sorry. I didn't mean to, you know, cause any problems. And immediately David's like back arguing with him. Well, he should have been the one to go to Kyle, even if he was still going after Camilla. David should have gone to Kyle and had a separate conversation and been like, bro, that was just for show.

[00:56:40] I needed Mary to know that I had her back. I'm still with you. Whatever you want to vote for is fine because that's how you fix the situation when you realize, okay, the votes aren't going to go my way. If the votes aren't going to go my way, no matter who we vote for this week, it's me next week. Or it may be me this week. So I'm just, again, I'm curious, did that conversation happen and they just didn't show it?

[00:57:05] Or did David like, cause I thought he had somewhat of a good hold on, on where he stands in the game. And I'm curious, like why it didn't occur to him to have a conversation with Kyle more calmly instead of being more aggressive and angry. That's a very good question.

[00:57:27] Also involved in this rule, to go back to something else that you had mentioned, was the way we saw the Shaheen flashback planting seeds along the way about how David had been playing. For example, saying David had too many people in his back pocket. He controlled who talked to whom like Boston Robb. And there wasn't as much made of that in terms of, in terms of Joe's decision.

[00:57:57] But I have to wonder if it was in the back of his mind as part of wondering, like, will David flip on me? He's been building this separate army over here, you know? Yeah. And as an aside, we later heard from David himself that he was cultivating a relationship with Star. Which, I mean, Joe didn't know about that necessarily, but it could have spelled trouble for Joe. And was again, extremely hypocritical considering how forcefully David said just last week,

[00:58:27] Camilla, you say Camilla wants to work with us? We don't need anyone else. We have our group. Anyone else coming in would just complicate it. So, but then he's working with Star separately. Again, if he had been doing this as part of a steamy type of personality, I'd have given him a thumbs up. But it was so hypocritical for him to say, you can't do this. We just have ourselves. Honesty, loyalty, integrity.

[00:58:55] And by the way, I'm going to cultivate a relationship with Star over here separately. Well, I think it's kind of like do as I say, not as I do. Oh, absolutely. Yes. It's like, here's my plan, but here's my backup plan because I'm going to need the backup plan. And we all know I'm going to need a backup plan unless you just have been living under a rock and have never seen Survivor in the history of ever. He claims that he didn't think he'd need a backup plan, you know, like in his interviews. He said, no, if we would have just gone to the end. Well, then why were you?

[00:59:23] And then how did he justify the Star situation? Did nobody call him out on it? Did nobody ask? I didn't listen. I don't think anyone asked in the interviews. I mean, that was just one minor thing of all the interviews.

[01:00:01] Yeah. The game doesn't affect Joe being a threat or not a threat. David's not like a meat shield for Joe. I mean, he could have been. If David wins, let's say that people did want to. Here's the thing. Why would you get rid of David now? David had a complete hissy fit in front of everybody. By the end of the ninth episode, every single human being on that tribe was angry with him. Why wouldn't you keep him?

[01:00:31] I mean, there's lots of reasons. He showed his cards. Right. But OK, you're going to keep him over Joe. I don't want to sit next to Joe. Right. Tribal Council. You want to sit next to Joe at final Tribal Council? Right. Wait, let's sit next to the guy who just pissed every single other person in this game off. Nobody else is making anybody else mad. I mean, this is an amazing cast. I would say.

[01:00:58] Top three cast of the new season, at least a new era, the new era. Sorry. And I was really excited to see this season, but everyone's nice. Everyone's kind. You like we don't have these like non-villain villains. And that's always the goal of CBS. Yes. I think a lot of people thought say was a non-villain villain, you know, for 100% a villain.

[01:01:30] But again, they're all gone. So who's who's left to like create problems? Who's the person you want to sit next to at the end? The person that's pissed off the entire jury. Who else has done that more than David? Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I can see that. The problem is, David, if you're not part of David's crew, do you think you're getting to the end with him?

[01:01:57] No, but we see this a lot in seasons of Survivor, right? There's always that one person that gets like kind of power hungry. They they start yielding a lot of power. They want a couple immunities. They're in the like majority alliance. And what do they do? They completely shut the bed because they take all that power. I look, I don't make the rules. I don't make the rules of Survivor. But we see.

[01:02:27] Oh, I love that. But we see this all the time, right? I mean, this isn't this isn't the first time we've seen someone downer spiral after having too much power. Yeah, I think the issue is, is that it came a little bit too quickly, a little bit too soon. I would have been really excited to see it had they actually gotten to the end with a core six, a core five. It would have been really fun to watch.

[01:02:54] I think it could have been fun to watch in certain situations if they weren't on their high horses preaching. I think that really turned a lot of viewers off. OK, so but getting back to this rule, I know we've spent a fair amount of time in it already. But wait, there's more. And it's the one thing I told you we would talk about is the whole Mary situation. Yes, because so David said in his interviews.

[01:03:24] That basically when they got to the swap tribe, he felt bad for Mary and had protected her, although they never had any need for protection. But, you know, basically had planned to protect her. And she kind of attached herself to him despite his attempt to keep her at arm's length. So this is what his claims were in all the interviews. He told Mike Bloom, I didn't want them to think that Mary and I were number ones.

[01:03:54] Now, I can tell by the look on your face that you feel the same way that everyone on Survivor felt because it seemed like all the other members of the Strong Five Alliance figured that's exactly what happened. So he clearly if this is correct, what he's saying, he clearly did not do a good job of separating her from him.

[01:04:15] You know, he said in interviews that he told them she was just a number and he only called it the strong six when she was around and called it a strong five when she wasn't. Although when wasn't she around. But how if you're a member of that alliance, how are you supposed to believe him when he does things like pushing so hard for Camilla to be voted out because Mary wanted it.

[01:04:43] So despite what he claims now, no, he did not do what he needed to show separation, which told everyone else they had become a tight duo. He he you said this earlier, he was allowed to have his side alliance as part of the group, but got mad at the idea that Kyle or Shaheen might have one of their own. I just think conversations need to be had before you bring somebody else into the mix.

[01:05:10] And when you're dealing with social dynamics, OK, for example, I'm just going to use Cassidy and Gio, right? If I'm in a core four alliance, I'm going to use my alliance. We've got, you know, Cassidy and James and Carla and me and we're the core four. I'm not just going to show up one day and be like, come on, Gio, like this is fun.

[01:05:36] And I'm curious, like what convinced him that he could comfortably bring somebody else into the alliance without talking about it with anyone, without clearing it with anyone and making sure that like she's a good fit for each other player in your alliances game. I think it's just because he thought he was in charge.

[01:06:02] You know, and the thing is, he also let's for a moment. Let's say real quick, real quick before you say that and you can just give a yes or no or you can give a more detailed answer. Did you get the impression at any point in the first seven episodes of Survivor that he is controlling, has to call the shots? I mean, he's a girl's girl. He was in an all girls a lot. He was in an all girl tribe for a while. Have you ever been in a room full of all women and tried to have control?

[01:06:31] Spoiler alert, you've got zero. You have zero. OK, so. Again, I never got the impression that he was controlling, that he was going to be the one that had to call the shots. I don't look at that as that's his baseline. That's his natural personality. I look at look at it as like he got a little like control hungry. He got a little taste of the power and he was like, I want more.

[01:07:00] Well, and again, I hate to keep going back to this and sound like a broken record. They never needed to make a decision in the situation to describe. So it's easy to be, as you said earlier, kumbaya with everyone when you don't have to vote someone off. Yeah, you're right. And so, you know, here we are and he brings Mary along all of a sudden. So let's say that we take him at his word. OK, I.

[01:07:29] Don't agree with I some of the things he said in his interviews, I think he is incorrect about them. Like what? We've already mentioned some of them and we'll get to. But but let's just assume for the purposes of this thought experiment that he is 100 percent telling the truth, not just as he saw it, but the absolute objective truth that Mary was the one who attached herself to him and he wanted to keep the distance.

[01:07:59] And he did tell everyone else, don't worry about Mary. She's just a number. We're going to vote her out. Even if all of that were true, even if he believed all of that. He did not consider how other people would see it because you can say all you want. Those things.

[01:08:19] But if you repeatedly support her instead of your alleged number one, Kyle, people aren't going to believe you, even if you are telling the truth. And so so that's where I think he missed in, you know, and again, you know, not keeping his scheming secret, failing, you know,

[01:08:43] plotting and scheming too much with Mary was he he he did not think about how other people would view the situation. Right. I mean, why didn't it occur to him at any point? Say my alliance is going to think that I'm now making Mary a priority. All right. You know what it's similar to? So it's similar to like a guy's group in high school.

[01:09:12] And then all of a sudden one guy in that group gets a girlfriend. And then that guy brings the girlfriend around to like playing video games or having pizza with the boys or whatever. And it's like, wait, you got you picked the girlfriend, but like we didn't pick the girlfriend. And now all of a sudden, if we want to hang out with you, we got to hang out with this girl, too. And like, look, no disrespect to Mary, no disrespect to David. But it's like you took this like great thing that we had going on and you kind of screwed everything up by bringing this girlfriend around.

[01:09:42] Last week, I said something very similar. I said it was did you say I said cliche of like a bunch of guys have a band. And then all of a sudden the lead singer gets a girlfriend and she has her own ideas about how they should play their music. And suddenly the band breaks up. Yes. Yes. It's like the Beatles all over again. Yes. Yes. Someone said that in one of the comments. Did you just accuse her of being Yoko Ono? I was like, no. I mean, a little bit.

[01:10:08] I mean, it's so cliche at this point that you can't just point to one person. It happens. It's in, you know, all sorts of different stories where it happens. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, your example is another perfect example where it's like, wait, how did how did they get? To be part of our. Why is it that all of a sudden you want to hang out with her? We have to hang out with her, too. And I'm sure they would eventually get to that point.

[01:10:33] But I think it was Shaheen that said when you push too hard, you push people away. Yes. And and I think that perfectly sums up. Why David lost. But. Yeah. Oh, you're getting to the conclusion already. I know. I'm not. We'll skip. Yes. Yes. But let's move on to rule three here, because the rule tells players to be flexible.

[01:11:03] And yeah, David undoubtedly is flexible in a physical sense, or at least knows how to flex. But what did you think about him in a game sense for being flexible? Um. So. I didn't think we were given enough examples of him being in a situation where he had to be flexible until. He was put in a situation where he had to be flexible and he wasn't. Um.

[01:11:32] So like a perfect example is, you know, both Kyle and Joe immediately voice concern once they started noticing like some of his abnormal behavior. Then he gets in a fight with Chrissy. He gets in a fight with Joe. Um. He was flexible until he was absolutely 100 percent not flexible at all. Yeah. I think that's a good way to say it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he was flexible until people disagreed with it. It's easy to be flexible when everyone agrees with you.

[01:12:02] Yeah. You know, I had a boss like that. Uh. So. I think we all had a boss like that. Yes. Um. Yeah. And it goes back to something I said earlier that Kyle had said, you know, for David, it was his way or the highway. Yeah. One thing I do want to discuss here is part of this rule talks about how you have to have your finger on the pulse of the game. Uh-huh. And David used those exact words in telling Dalton he had a good read on everyone in the game.

[01:12:30] And he said something similar in his other interviews as well. But I want to take a look at this more closely. Uh-huh. And some of it we've already talked about. Did David have some good reads about Kyle and Shaheen? Yes. Yes. Yes. The thing is, Kyle and Camilla planted at least some of the thoughts about Shaheen, which we talked about earlier, when they were trying to get David to flip against him.

[01:12:55] And then Kyle kind of gave away the part about being close to Camilla when he resisted the push to vote around. So some of David's reads, although they were right, were kind of accidentally right. Oh, no. But what if Kyle, like they keep telling us that Kyle and Camilla's relationship is like so low key. There's nothing low key. Let's not get it twisted.

[01:13:21] Kyle and Camilla keep telling you that nobody knows that they're together. People know. People know. I mean, from what we've seen in the interviews, most of them coming out said they didn't know. David even said something to the, I can't remember exactly. But David said something to the effect of, well, I knew they were closer to each other than had been made out or something like that. And Kyle did worry about that.

[01:13:52] But let's again take a hypothetical where I take him at his word from interviews. Okay. There are still issues because, for example, David said there was a blaring neon sign, not in the interviews, in the game. There was a blaring neon sign saying Kyle and Shaheen were working together. But I mentioned this earlier. They weren't until he pushed them together. Again, Kyle was trying to get Shaheen out until that point.

[01:14:21] So his blaring sign was wrong until he made it right. I mean, I hear you on that. But also like Kyle and Shaheen are core five. Right. Right. They're core five. So I expect them to work together. Well, he meant working together against him. I mean. Again, I question the timeline. Well, now another example. I know it's driving you crazy, but I question the timeline.

[01:14:51] I mean, the timeline was that it's because we saw the timeline, you know, that that Kyle and Camilla were trying to get Shaheen out two days earlier. Two days. Remind me why they were trying to get him out. Because they thought he was, you know, too strategic, too sneaky, whatever that they wanted to. You know, I don't know. Maybe maybe Kyle wanted to pull Camilla into the five also. And he thought, you know, they didn't really go into that. It wouldn't surprise me. Right.

[01:15:21] One of his thoughts. But I think he wanted to whittle it down. So kind of he could have these strong people to himself and be the only real strategist in that group. Which does make some sense, you know. Wait. You're talking about Kyle. Yeah. Yeah. If he gets rid of Shaheen. He also he he admitted him and Camilla are like this. He's like, I need Camilla to help me with this game.

[01:15:48] No, I mean, getting rid of Shaheen would make him the only strategist left in the strong group. OK. You know, the other people would be all honesty, integrity, loyalty. And he'd be over here plotting the backstab them. And he didn't have to wouldn't have had to worry about Shaheen. Now, another example is David telling Eva that Camilla and Shaheen had an idol and he determined that Shaheen would use the idol on Camilla. Yeah. Where did that come from?

[01:16:18] That's exactly it. Camilla. Camilla. Was the one who told him. As a way to try to get him to distrust Shaheen. So why? What process in David's brain made him think. That Shaheen would use this fictional idol to save Camilla, the person who was ratting him out. It made zero sense, no matter how you look at it.

[01:16:48] And did he say anything about it in the exit interviews? I don't think anyone asked him that. Most of the interviews people ask. No, I mean, you know, they get 10, 15 minutes, whatever they ask. I know. The biggest questions. Not they don't expect people to be like me and go through four or more interviews. You know, you have to expect that they'll go. You know, people will listen to or read one. And, you know, but.

[01:17:16] So anyway, I can say that David had some good reads. But some of them he realized in the wrong way. And the bigger problem then is what he did with those. Because as we've already discussed and will continue to talk about in the rest of the rules. Even if you have 100% the right reads. Again, another hypothetical. Even if I throw out all my concerns about that. And he had 100% the right reads. He still did a horrible job with them.

[01:17:46] Yeah. And I'm actually kind of sad because like I said, up until episode seven and a half. Right. He was playing a pretty decent game. Yeah. I just think when we start to downward spiral, when we start to get paranoid, we make decisions that we wouldn't normally make. And I'm curious with his exit interviews. Like, did he have any moments where he was just like, that was the moment that I regret. I definitely downward spiraled. Like, did he own that? No. Okay. No.

[01:18:16] Unless there's something that I missed. He didn't own anything. Right. It was all Joe and Eva's fault. They were manipulated. And they made bad decisions. And that, and he paid for it. He took no ownership, no responsibility. I mean, honestly, when I was watching the episode and I started to see Joe and Eva recognize like the negative side of David, I was like, oh, they're definitely going to turn on him.

[01:18:44] And then when we, I think they showed a conversation where they were like, but we still want to be loyal to him. And I'm like, wait, you're still going to be, you're still going to be loyal to him. I mean, they, I'm sure it was, you know, a battle for them. And, you know, this is something we'll talk more about later, but, uh, you know, because they had proclaimed loyalty and integrity also, and here they would be turning on a core member.

[01:19:11] But at some point you got to realize, holy crap, we've got to get rid of this guy. I know. But the second I heard that clip of like Eva saying, like, you know, we've got to give him another shot. Essentially. I was like, oh, she's going to stick with him. I was shocked. And then when I saw that both her and Joe had voted for David, I was like, all right. But that means game on. Right. It actually got me really excited because I was like, all right, Joe and Eva, they just had their first sip of alcohol.

[01:19:42] Like, I mean, here we go. So we'll see. Like I said, I have my predictions. I think you have you'll have different predictions. Let's just. Oh, I can't wait to hear it. Yeah. All right. Well, the fourth rule tells players not to let their emotions control them. So, you know, we've kind of talked about his spiral. What did you think about David for this one?

[01:20:11] OK, well, clearly his emotions took over. But that wasn't the first thing that I thought about when it said, don't let emotions control you. I looked at the overall picture, which was David came in allowing his emotions to control the game. A lot of us go in playing this game for different reasons. For me, I didn't care about winning the million dollars.

[01:20:40] Yes, I would love a million dollars, but I want to earn a million dollars. Right. So my thing is, is like. For me, Survivor wasn't about winning a million dollars. It was about the title, the competition, proving to myself, proving to my kids, proving to other people. David had a lot more on the line. Like there was a clip that he said, my girlfriend broke up with me because of money. And.

[01:21:10] I wonder how much of that. Played a part in the way that he played the game, you know, was he able to compartmentalize those emotions every time he was making decision? Was he making a smart, sound decision or was he making a decision knowing how much is writing on every decision that you make?

[01:21:34] It's stressful out there, like incredibly stressful because you realize every small decision that you make can negatively affect the rest of the game for you. It takes just one small, stupid mistake to lose a million dollars. And I wonder the stress, the weight, the world. I'm sure he felt like he was carrying all the days that he was playing because he knew if I come home with a ton of money, my girlfriend will stay with me.

[01:22:03] If I don't come home with money, she's going to stay broken up with me. That's what I think about when it says don't let the emotions control you. OK, that's it. And just since you didn't look at the interviews, he did clarify because at one point on the show, he said they were still together, but she will break up with another point. He said she broke up with him. He clarified in an interview and said she had broken up with him and then they got back together. But he was worried she would do it again. And yes, when he came home without the money, she did break up with him.

[01:22:33] He has since moved. He has a new girlfriend who he is very happy with. So good. OK, but aside from that, that is, you know, I had not considered any of that you were talking about. I was looking at it more from the other thing. And, you know, you raise a very, very good point. Yes, that is probably going through his mind also.

[01:22:57] And where I thought you were going to go when you started talking just now was also something I hadn't considered. But you triggered it in my mind, even though you didn't go in there was coming in and saying you're going to play with honesty, integrity, loyalty. That is an emotional way to play. That is not a strategic way to play. That is an emotional way to play. Yeah. So basically his whole game was emotions. And I mean, you see different people come in, right?

[01:23:24] Like you see people that come in and they're like, I'm going to lie, cheat and steal. My entire family has told me that I can do whatever it takes to win this million dollars. Your stress level is way different, right? Because you've now just been given permission to do whatever it takes to play the game. You have a lot more freedom. You can have a lot more fun with it. For him, every single decision at that point for him was this is either where I am able

[01:23:54] to start a family or not start a family. That's a lot of pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Now, kind of circling back to where I was thinking, where I normally go with this, I want to go back to something I mentioned in Rule 2 when Stephen on Know-It-Alls said that David couldn't stop himself from saying what was on his mind. Was that an emotional situation? And I think for part of it, it was.

[01:24:20] It was kind of like David was me in a Facebook argument. I just can't help but point out when a person is wrong. I sometimes am the living embodiment of that cartoon where someone like a wife walks in and I'm sure people have seen this comic strip. A wife walks in and says, it's time for bed. And the husband says, I can't. And he's on a computer. And she says, why? He says, someone's wrong on the internet. You know?

[01:24:51] And so, yeah. You know, that's. I can't help it. And he did the same thing. Except the difference is if I point out that someone's wrong on the internet, maybe they block me. Maybe they yell at me. You know, maybe I stay up too late arguing with them and I pay for it in the morning. In his case. One, the other person wasn't necessarily wrong.

[01:25:18] And two, he was in a game for a million dollars where even if you are 100% right. Yeah. Sometimes have to keep your mouth shut. And he could not do it. No. Uh, I disagree. I think he did a really great job doing it until he couldn't anymore. And I think there's a big difference. Stay wasn't able to do that the entire game.

[01:25:46] I think David showed a lot of restraint, which is really, really, really, really hard. I think people underestimate how difficult it is to keep your mouth shut. But how difficult it is to be agreeable when you're on an island with people from all different walks of life and you don't agree with anything they say. It's hard. It's hard to be around people 24 hours a day, seven days a week. You need a break, right?

[01:26:11] And every time you get to take a break out there, people are constantly wondering where you are. They're paying attention to how long you're gone for. So you can't say to someone like, I just need a mental health break. Like this whole like socialization thing is a lot for me. I just need like 15 minutes. People don't believe you, you know? So I think he did a really great job. And then once he started Downward Spiling, I think he didn't have that chance. And this is where the pace of the game really comes into play.

[01:26:38] And people can say all they want about old school versus new school. You know, somebody said it on one of the episodes today. They were like, we thought Jeff was going to give us a break. But he was like, no, go harder. Right. Right. And it's so true. You know, I think about I think about every decision that's made in New School Survivor. And I think to myself, OK, what if this person had had three days to process and manage the situation instead of 12 hours, 24 hours?

[01:27:08] Yeah. And that was right. That was something I mentioned last week, because last week especially, it was bad because they had boom, boom, boom, you know? Yeah. And not only was it that they were having to vote every day, it's that they were being split up and put together and sent on journeys and go over here on a reward and this and that, which I think impacts the game overall. One hundred percent. Negatively impacts the game and Jeff needs to stop it. But I agree. But I agree.

[01:27:36] But in this case, again, I hate, again, to sound like a broken record. And by the way, for people who are younger than us, a record is this gift that you put on and you put a needle on it and it spins. Yeah. But anyway, the the. They sell records at Urban Outfitters, like kids know what records are right now. I know that's true. They have made a comeback. They need VHS. You need to break down like the VHS. Yeah.

[01:28:04] Well, there's no broken VHS because then it just gets eaten by your machine and that's the end of it, you know? Yes. Fair fact. But where was I going now? Oh, the that you said it yourself. You compared him to Say. Well, they went to every damn tribal council. And so she had the pressure on her again from the very beginning. He did not. So, yes, you're right. It is hard to live with people 24 seven.

[01:28:31] But it's a lot easier if you don't have to worry about voting them out. It is. But it's almost not because I think you get such a false sense of security and you start feeling so confident in the game. I'll be honest with you. So by the time we went to tribal council, like we were feeling great. We felt like the dominant tribe. But then you get to the point where you're like, wait, somebody's going to start to realize we're six strong. They're going to start coming after us.

[01:28:57] But I'm wondering if he never felt the loss or the stress and he got so comfortable. That's exactly what I was going to say. You got there just before I did, which is I don't think he knew to think ahead to that. He did have this false sense of security. But to him, it was a true sense of security. You know, OK, I'm just going to make sure we win every challenge, you know, and then I won't have to worry about it. And for the most part, he was right.

[01:29:25] You know, but that was kind of my mentality, too. I was kind of like, why? I mean, your muscles are. Why make issues? I've got. Thank you. I think that was the nicest compliment anyone's ever given me. I appreciate that. Andy, did you hear that? I'm just kidding. But but yeah, I wonder how much his game play would have changed if he had gone to tribal council just like once. Yes.

[01:29:53] And it also like didn't help that he went from like winning all these challenges during pre-merge and then he's winning individual immunity. He's going on all these rewards like he's sitting pretty. I almost can't blame him for being as confident as he was in the game. You know, like how I complimented your muscles and then all of a sudden you change your position to, you know, be showing them, you know. OK, so.

[01:30:19] So, yeah, getting getting back to the emotional side of things, there is one thing that you you did, you know, may not realize because Chrissy said in her interviews that in that in last week's tribal council, we didn't see it. But she said he was yelling at her in that tribal council. So did you see his nose flaring? Like I I remember there is one moment where she's talking and you see him in the background

[01:30:47] and he's like adjusting his posture. You can see him having like a physiological reaction to what she's saying. Well, I think he wanted I think that he probably wanted to jump in and tell her she was wrong, but knew that interrupting her would be seen as even worse than, you know, what he was doing. But yeah, he now he described in his interviews the interaction a bit differently. And he said they basically had a respectful disagreement.

[01:31:17] That's not what I saw. To me, it looked like he was getting emotional, like you just described. Right. And wanted to defend the idea of a muscle alliance. But. That wasn't Chrissy's point. You know, and I've seen some people online who are misunderstanding this as well. What did you think her point was? Her point was not about the kind of alliance.

[01:31:42] It was the fact that he was in an open alliance and had tossed her aside. He could have been in an alliance of all people who had brown hair. He could have been in an alliance of all people who were, you know, stuntmen. It wouldn't have mattered what type of alliance he was in. The fact was that he was in an alliance. Excuse me. That was so blatantly open and. Had tossed her aside when she had been in an alliance with him.

[01:32:13] Right. But then she also played the victim. She's like, why am I even here? I should just like. No, that's not how it works. The way that it works is usually there's a majority alliance. They talk a bunch of junk. They try to threaten all the people that they are going to vote out. And then those people get together. And nine and a half times out of ten. And then those people end up breaking up the majority alliance. Right. I mean, they did. It was just one. You know what, David? Thank you for showing me your cards.

[01:32:42] I get it. I mean, I think she was a victim of circumstance in that situation. And she never had the numbers at any point. But, you know, let him show his cards. Like, let him play the game that he wants to play and let him bury himself. Oh, yeah. She at that point was just like, you know, that was last minute attempts to. I get it.

[01:33:05] I'm just saying, I remember watching that scene and I thought to myself, I'm going to have to defend David in this situation to my other David. And I know exactly what I'm going to say, which is like. He had some like really valid points. He had. I mean, again, the problem was that he had this wide open alliance that allowed her to say all those things.

[01:33:28] If he had just pretended that she was still with him and then voted her out and made it a true blind side, then OK, they wouldn't have had that problem. Well, you know, David, this reminds me of something that I deal with my everyday life. I think it's something that you and I have in common that we can agree on. But I feel like in this situation, this core alliance is saying that they genuinely care about people and they want to do as much as they can to minimize the damage.

[01:33:57] But yet the more they draw attention to themselves, they are causing damage. Yes. You know where they're saying like, hey, we're going to be loyal and honest and play this great game. And then they're not doing right. Right. Exactly. You know, they're they're kind of like dangling this this five, six person alliance and everyone else's faces. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right. We go to the fifth rule, which reminds players to pretend to be nice and play the social game.

[01:34:29] I think in some maybe many situations, David would be a perfectly nice guy. Yeah. And as you have mentioned, he seemed to be earlier in the game. And then he took a big heel turn. You know, Joe said it to Kyle. David's demeanor changed the last 24 to 48 hours. Basically, the last two episodes, the same thing we've been saying this whole podcast. Now, I chalk up a lot of that to two main things.

[01:34:58] First, as I just mentioned, of course, the rule is pretend to be nice. David had no use for pretending. He told Mike Bloom, I'm not going to sit there and try to pretend to be someone that I'm not. Everyone else is doing that. Everyone else is being fake. I was being myself. And then he flat out told Dalton Ross, a lot of people go out to play Survivor and they pretend to be someone. That was not me. That was not the game I'm playing.

[01:35:23] Well, I guess I'm one of a lot of people and, you know, it says you should do that. And I still stand by it. In fact, his gameplay is a perfect example to support why you need to pretend to be nice. I just feel like people that are nice don't need to pretend to be nice. David seems like a genuinely nice person. So here's what I have under pretend to be nice and play the social game.

[01:35:52] You know, you see in his first scene, he's joking. He's laughing. He's, you know, he's the one that made the plan and told everybody like what they were going to do for the rest of the day on day one. And the first like character assessment we get from him is like from Camilla, which is ironic. She talks about how he's insane. She calls him a Chad. You know, he talks about how he treats his girl like a princess. He's a kind, gentle soul.

[01:36:19] Mary says that he's a provider, all these different types of things. And I'm curious because it's like he he pretends to be this Chad. He's the stunt guy, all this stuff. But then he spends the rest of the episodes trying to convince us that like he's soft and he's gentle and he treats his girlfriend like a princess and he loves Notting Hill and all this stuff. And it's like, well, which one are you?

[01:36:49] Which which person are we supposed to believe you are? Are we playing with the David that is the macho man who's going to win all these challenges? Or are we playing with like the soft, sensitive, honest, doesn't want to tell a lie type guy? And I think he sent a lot of mixed messages to people. Yeah, I mean, that's a very good point. Not something that I had considered.

[01:37:13] You know, I yeah, you know, I was more focused on the turn his social game took these last 48 hours or so. Mm hmm. Um, and. Right. But and this is why it's important. Yeah. OK, we expect these things from like big, beefy, macho men who are able to compartmentalize that don't have a lot of like doesn't have like a high emotional IQ. Right.

[01:37:39] But then when you see David who comes in and he presents as this big jockey guy, he's going to be this one way. But then he spends the rest of the time trying to convince us that he's, you know, got this soft inner layer. But then at the last moment, when it's really important to kind of figure out like which way he's going to go.

[01:38:00] He ends up going with the beefy jockey, the way that we expect that stereotype to behave, which is like controlling and angry and like it's my way or the highway as opposed to being flexible. Yeah. Yeah. Being agreeable. Knowing how to work with lots of women and, you know, and and knowing when to say yes and knowing when to back off. He didn't do any of that.

[01:38:24] So I feel like we spent seven episodes trying him trying to convince us that he is this person that he's not for at the end of the day for him to end up being the person that we kind of expected him to be. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I've mentioned it a couple of times now. It it seemed like a compulsion to say things that didn't need to be said. He wasn't just that he that he wasn't pretending to be nice.

[01:38:51] He was almost going out of his way to be a jerk, you know, and it fits in going out of his jerk or downward spiraling and realizing that he doesn't have control and trying to find that control. But realizing like, oh, God, I'm not getting it back. I mean, maybe. But, you know, in his pregame interview, he said, I'm an arrogant a-hole at times. Some people might say my arrogance or my confidence could get me in trouble. There you go. Yeah. You know, I mean, another example.

[01:39:19] Well, an example I've already mentioned is when Kyle tried to smooth things over the morning after the Chrissy Tribal Council. All David had to do was agree and shrug it off, at least publicly. All he had to say, hey, no, no worries. You know, we figured it out. We're good. Yeah. But no, he continued his behavior from the prior day. He said, well, it should have been easy. And he was like, there was a lot of scrambling. There didn't need to be. It came across as just listen to me and don't have any independent thoughts of your own.

[01:39:49] And, you know, this led to Kyle telling us David's paranoia has translated into bullish behavior towards other players in the game. I've had a lot of experience dealing with confrontational or argumentative people in various circumstances. I don't like it in the real world. I don't like it here. All because David couldn't simply nod his head and accept Kyle trying to smooth things over. Yeah.

[01:40:14] Or just realizing the more you continue to fight with anyone out there, again, especially because it is such a short game. When you have three days in between tribal councils, so much can happen. You can't afford to piss someone off within a 24-hour period of one tribal council to another. Because you know what's going to happen? Somebody's going to get sent on a boat. That's going to take half a day. Then that person is going to come back. They're going to go into confessionals for half a day.

[01:40:43] Like, you can't risk the amount of time that you're losing with all these things that pop up throughout the day. So, like, if you get in a fight with someone, that person may be gone up until right before you go into lockdown for tribal council. You don't have time to make amends. You don't have time to, like, laugh it off. You don't have time to, like, go swim it off in the ocean and, like, yuck it up or have a bonfire on the beach and, like, re-bond. That doesn't exist in the new era.

[01:41:13] Kyle was giving him that time. Yeah. Right here, he was saying, hey, let's mend fences. Let's make sure we're still good. And David's response was screw off, basically. Right. But, like, think about, like, the worst fight you've ever had with your wife, right? And everyone says, like, you shouldn't go to bed angry, blah, blah, blah. I disagree with that. Sometimes, like, you just need some time to calm down. Yeah.

[01:41:37] People don't realize that, like, these players don't have that advantage in the game. You don't get the benefit of, like, being able to, like, step back, reflect, calm down, think about how you should have handled it, and then go in. And, again, I think this is one of those situations where, like, time just really wasn't on their side. It wasn't. But in this case, I mean, I think even if they had had three days, I think Kyle would have come to him right away because Kyle's idea was the right one.

[01:42:07] Try to smooth things over right away. But you don't think David would have had time to, like, calm down, let, like, his vitals, like, get back to baseline or, like, within normal limits and, like, realize that he's probably, like, giving way too much control to Mary and, like, maybe he shouldn't be trusting Mary so much?

[01:42:31] Like, at what point does David wait and realize Mary's not the person that I'm willing to give up the rest of my alliance for? I felt like this might have been a two-day cycle for this vote. I did not check the days. I agree. It seemed slower. Like, they had time to paint the flag. They had time to swim in the ocean. So this was the most time they were ever going to get, you know? Okay. Fair. Fair. Now, another situation. It wasn't three days, but yes. Right. Go ahead.

[01:42:58] Another situation, which we had mentioned earlier, was him telling Joe that he went back in on his word, which, again, a continuation of saying the absolute wrong thing time after time, he basically found the most hurtful thing he could have said to Joe. So in his interview, this is what I had promised you. In his interview, he claimed he did it on purpose because a weak man will react to the truth or words to that effect.

[01:43:26] He said something like a strong man will react to a lie. A weak man will react. He said that? Yes. And he wanted to test Joe. Now, to me, it sounds like occasionally happens with interviews where someone tries to make themselves look better after the fact. But he also told Mike Bloom at that point, I didn't even care what I expected because, again, I knew I was right.

[01:43:55] And if I was an equal to Joe, then this wouldn't be a hard conversation to have. I knew that for some reason he was being manipulated by Kyle and Shaheen, and he didn't respect me enough to truly follow through with his word. So, again, it was all about David having to be right to hell with any semblance of a social game. I've left her speechless.

[01:44:23] I just don't understand any world in which you can rationalize talking to Joe like that and accusing him of something that he didn't do. And I kind of almost wish you had told me that at the beginning of the episode because I don't think I would have defended David as much as I did. I'm being honest. I'm being honest. Yeah. That makes me sad.

[01:44:49] Well, and that was one of the things, I mean, you know, I went in worrying, you know, we were going to be too hard on him. But then I saw his interviews and I was like, he's keeping it up. So, you know. And David, I'm so glad you said that because I think, again, you and I talk a lot like outside of the game in different seasons. And there was another season I think you and I had talked about how we were going to, not that we were going to go easy on someone, but that the second we read their exit interviews, we were like, oh, game on, like game on.

[01:45:17] And I even think we did it with Jelinski, too. Did you and I talk about Jelinski? Yeah, we did. We did. And I'm not saying he's that person because I think it happened one other time, too. But like we did that with Jelinski, too. I think you and I were like texting earlier and we're like, oh, he's doubling down. Yeah. So it's fair game. I'm so bummed out now. I wish I had read the exit interviews. I mean, I still think a lot of what you said is is possible is true in that it led up to that. But it was really as part of this spiral.

[01:45:47] And I don't understand the doubling down. I don't understand the the saying no matter what, whether he did it on purpose or he didn't do it on purpose. It's still bad. It was still terrible. Now, he claims in his interviews that Joe definitely did lie and he parses it out because we didn't see it all on there, but we saw some hints of it. He parses it out that.

[01:46:17] Joe said. Well, he he claims that he predicted everything that would happen. Which is what? Which is that we would. That Kyle and Shaheen would back down on the Camilla thing when they talked, but then in last minute, they would come back to Joe and try to switch it to Chrissy.

[01:46:44] And he says Joe promised that he would hold firm. And that was what the promise that Joe broke. But what Joe was trying to explain to him when he wasn't listening was there was new information and he didn't break a promise. They made a decision as a group. Yeah, but you know, but in in David's mind, he was parsing out like individual little things that that that Joe had said and saying, well, that was a promise that you went back on. And and.

[01:47:11] And then, you know, on top of it, he even said it to Eva. After saying to Joe. Well, OK, maybe I misunderstood or maybe you saw it a different way. And then later in the episode, we see him behind Joe's back telling Eva, well, Joe went back on his word. Well, one knowing that Eva is going to go and tell Joe. Like, did you think they weren't going to have that conversation?

[01:47:41] Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. Yeah. Just a bad, bad choices overall. You know, now I did mention at the top of this rule that David had two main issues here. The second relates to something Joe said at Tribal Council about how players need to understand their own social game as well as how other players are feeling and what's changing every day and the overall vibe.

[01:48:09] And David clearly didn't, as evidenced by the things we just talked about. He didn't care how Kyle or Joe or Chrissy or whoever felt. He only cared about voicing his thoughts because he was right. Damn it. Yeah. And, you know, Camilla warned him last week that the way he was talking wasn't very good jury management. I predicted at the time he wouldn't have to worry about jury management.

[01:48:31] But, you know, but she was still right in that it wasn't good ally management and it pushed his allies away. Are you shocked that a woman has to call a man out on his emotional outbursts? I mean, I'm just saying, but you would think that he would listen. He should have. Yes.

[01:49:01] But, you know, obviously, you know, Camilla wasn't part of the group. She wasn't worth listening to. And even the people in the group weren't worth listening to at that point. So, yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, the sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat. Yes. How do you think David did here? Again, if we're going by marking periods, right?

[01:49:24] I think he was immediately a physical threat based off of, like, his physical stature and also the fact that he brought attention to his physical stature and all that he's capable of. For example, I come with receipts. I think one of the first quotes I got from him was, I'm not here to do pull-ups for everyone. And then he starts doing those pull-ups.

[01:49:54] And so I think someone even referred to he's Superman for a living. I don't know. When you present yourself as Superman for a living and you do pull-ups in front of everyone, you're automatically painting yourself as an immediate physical threat. So you're saying that in the middle of a challenge, he shouldn't have been doing this?

[01:50:15] Look, that was actually probably the most cringe part of every and any episode that I saw for the past 48 hours. Look, I'm not generally attracted to that type of guy. I understand that some women are. But I just feel like when you bring that type of attention to yourself, you're asking for a certain response.

[01:50:44] And I think in a game like Survivor, you kind of want to play under the radar. And I don't think he was doing that in terms of the physical threat. Right. But he did become a challenge threat at the merge, which we all knew would happen. Right. And then he beat Gabler's record. Good for him. Awesome. Like that was really fun to watch.

[01:51:09] But when you beat Joe, who is like considered like the super dad, the person that makes everybody happy. I'm honestly actually sad for David because I wonder what type of role he would have played had Joe not been on this season. I wonder if maybe he would have been able to slide into the Joe role. And if the Joe role didn't exist, he would have had that. But he didn't get that benefit.

[01:51:35] And so I think the moment he beat Joe, it all of a sudden became this like Joe versus David situation. And I hate that for them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, we discussed before getting into the rules. It was a surprise to exactly nobody that he was in the fight for another immunity win. And it was obviously a huge challenge threat. And then afterwards, he had to make it worse by proclaiming or complaining that he could have easily won. Yeah.

[01:52:04] You know, now I had predicted last week that the others would want to turn on David directly from the start of the episode and change the vote to Mary after David won immunity. So it was interesting that it started off as them gunning for Mary, but then switching to David when he didn't win immunity.

[01:52:23] And I do think that a part of that decision came from them realizing, hey, this is a perfect opportunity now that he hasn't won, because who knows when this situation could come around again? He could go on a streak. But I mean, do you think they even if they said they were voting for Mary, like he had pissed so many people off at that point that like it was inevitably going to fall to him regardless? Yeah.

[01:52:52] I mean, I think that I don't think it was a major reason. Right. But I do think it may have been in the back of their minds like, hey, he's vulnerable. Now let's consider our options here. Well, because here's what I think happened. I think they were like, we promised we would keep David. Also, there's a big chance that he's going to win immunity. Let's just go for Mary.

[01:53:17] Let's like make her not an even part of the issue anymore. And then David kind of downward spiraled. He lost it. It automatically. I don't even think it was like that hard of a decision to like. Yeah. To persuade them, because I'm sure they were also like, we get rid of David. We still have Mary. Mary's got nowhere to go. But I secretly think Mary is going to go to like the underdog alliance and start trying. Yeah. I don't think they have Mary, especially now.

[01:53:46] But, you know. Which they also should have considered. Yeah. Now, David claimed in interviews that, and I mentioned this earlier, that nobody was talking about him as a threat until the very end. One, I don't buy it. I mean, look at him. Two, even if they weren't saying it aloud, he acknowledged that it might have been in the back of their minds in his interviews. And I can pretty well guarantee it was based on some of the comments people have made on the show. But his threat level went beyond just challenges.

[01:54:15] He was already part of a threat to people like Mitch and Camilla because it was known he wanted them gone. And then he became a threat to Kyle and Shaheen when his thoughts about them came out into the open more. Plus, for Kyle in particular, I mentioned this earlier as well. Kyle noted that David knew from original Siva that he had a closer relationship with Camilla than maybe the others realized. Yeah.

[01:54:41] And then he became even a potential threat to Joe with the way he went after his honesty and integrity, as we discussed earlier. So even if he was right that people weren't thinking of him as a threat till the end. Well, I have to go back to pointing out he caused them to think of himself that way. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't think people looked at him as like a threat to win.

[01:55:08] I think the people that everyone's looking at as threats to win are the people you don't want to sit next to at the end. You don't want to sit next to Eva. Eva. Eva. Eva. You don't want to sit next to Joe. No. You don't want to sit next to Shaheen. Everyone else, you can figure out a way to convince the jury that you're deserving of a win. Right.

[01:55:34] And you can probably do the same for the top three that I just named. But if I had to make a list of the top three people I don't want to sit next to, those are the people. Right. And so for David, like, I don't understand why he wasn't willing to maybe even draw attention to the people that are more of a threat than him. Because here's the thing. He's a physical threat. But I never saw him as like, he's going to win the game.

[01:56:04] If I were to sit next to him at the end, he would win. Yeah. But he thought that his honesty, loyalty, integrity could carry him through and that they would, he would fight it out with, with, you know, Eva and Joe at the end. And he would proclaim that he was, you know. Right. But there's a lot of players, myself included, that like, there's a version of the game that you almost want to play.

[01:56:30] You almost want to go to the end with two other incredibly strong competitors and like battle it out to the end. That's the competitor and people, right? You don't want to lose because the people that you really should have been competing with at the end, like that vote, like you don't want to win by default. I don't know. I mean, it's a million dollars. I'll win by default. I get it. I get it. And I know you said, are you not a competitive person? Like, are you a competitive person? I'm a competitive person. Right. Right.

[01:56:59] But like, do you want to win the million dollars in like a really like easy way? Or do you want for people to be like, oh, she earned it? I mean, do I, I mean, the way that I would say there's a difference between earning it and not. And this comes down to the debate. People are like, well, you got to beat the best to be the best. But here's the thing. Well, if you, if you knock them out earlier, you've still beaten them.

[01:57:27] Whether it's at the end or not, you've still beaten them. And so. You know, taking. Yeah, but you don't. But people don't give you the credit for being a part of that decision. Right. So if everyone's saying, yeah, you won. But you weren't the person who was responsible for getting out the people that would have beat your ass. That's how they had the opportunity to do it. I would hope that you were part of it. You know, if in this ideal world where I was playing, I would want to be part of it.

[01:57:55] But on the other hand, there is a valid, a perfectly valid strategy and survivor big brother. Million dollar secret. The traders, whatever. To lie low. Let the big threats fight it out. And then rise up. And that is a strategic win. I know, but you can't compare survivor to other shows. I would have a completely different strategy on all those other shows than I would survivor.

[01:58:23] And I think, again, there's so many different layers. But like survivor is like the ultimate competition reality TV show. Right. And again, I think because of the love that I have for it, I don't want the win to be handed to me. Like you want to earn it. You want to earn it. You want to know that you went against the best of the best. Yeah. I wanted to go against the best of the best and beat them.

[01:58:49] I don't care if I beat them in vote number one or at the end in the final three. I still beat them. You know, if I'm playing a game against someone, if I'm playing a. I not that I have, but if I'm playing a pickleball tournament. OK, you don't play pickleball. Oh, I do. But I haven't played. OK, I'm a retired guy. Of course, I play pickleball. But if I'm playing in a tournament and I beat the number one seed in the first round.

[01:59:19] Is that any different than getting to the end and beating the number one seed in the finals? If I knock them out? No, what you don't want is you don't want some like knucklehead 16th seed accidentally knocking out the number one. I mean, I'm just saying you're not going to be the 16th seed. What I'm saying is, is like you want to be the one to take out the hardest competition. You don't want someone else to take out that competition and then you play. I mean, it depends.

[01:59:48] It's super easy at the end. If there's a million dollars on the line at the end that I, you know, and someone else takes out the number one seed and makes it easier for me. I'm not going to complain about that. I hear you. And there's two different types of players. There's the players that like don't want someone else to take out that person. They want to be the person to take out that person. And then there's the people that are like, yeah, make it easy for me. I don't know.

[02:00:12] I always thought to myself, like the worst way to win is to win up against someone where everyone was like, well, of course they did because the other two people were like so hated. Yes, but the worst way to win is still better than the best way to win. Okay, fair, fair. I'll give you that one. I'll give you that one.

[02:00:32] And just to bring it back, the bedrock of the rules here, the basis on which we're doing it is we evaluate it based on winning, not fighting the best competition. Fair. So it's based on the idea that you follow these rules to win. And so there are, you know, other people can have other considerations, as you mentioned, you did.

[02:01:00] But we weren't going to treat you any differently. You know, when we when we did the podcast about you. Yeah. So I don't think I knew that about you at the time. But so. Well, now you do. Now I do. All right. Let's move to the seventh rule, which covers advantages and game mechanics. I believe this is the only rule David didn't break to do so unless you can think of something I forgot.

[02:01:26] So the only thing and it's actually the like out of all the like notes that I took on him. I only have like one note and it says stars idle with Eva. He clapped. He actively helped. He was not. Productive when it came to like actually helping solve the problem, the puzzle. But you can see you could tell that he was like an active participant.

[02:01:55] But other than that, I felt like through the entire nine episodes that he was there, he wasn't dealing with idols and advantages. Right. So I didn't really have anything. Yeah. Like I said, the only rule he didn't break. Congratulations. All right. We can move to Appendix A, which discusses players keeping their end goals in mind when voting. And we talk about voting out the weak and the strong and the weak and the strong. And I think it's safe to say the tribe voted out the strong here in multiple ways. Yes.

[02:02:22] Obviously strong and challenges and could have made it difficult for others to get him out going forward, depending on what those future challenges might be. If they were more stand in one place and hold something heavy. Yeah. He's got those unless he loses his concentration. But he was also. Hold on. He did the puzzle. That he helped win the puzzle that Cassie and I also did the standing, the two sided puzzle. Oh, yes. He was one of the people. Yes.

[02:02:50] That was right after he said, we've got to get rid of the people who do the puzzles. And then he did the puzzle. Yes, he did do that. Let me just point out. And I hear that. However, I remember saying to myself, like, I want to mention this on the podcast, just in case there's players that are people that want to eventually play. Those puzzle pieces are extremely heavy and really hard to push together.

[02:03:17] So, like, Cassie and I combined, I don't even think, hit, like, 225 pounds, like, when we were playing. And it is really difficult to push those puzzle pieces in. And David did it with such ease that, like, I almost thought to myself, is that a strategy? Is it a strategy to get somebody who's really great at the puzzle?

[02:03:41] And then you have just, like, your muscle that's helping push them in a place that's helping pick them up, that's helping move them. Well, I think it was because when Kevin went out or, I mean, when he went out, he talked in his interviews about how he helped in the puzzle when they failed so miserably because they had not taken that into consideration. And if you recall, he only had one good arm.

[02:04:06] He was trying to reach over to push them together, but he didn't really have use of that shoulder. And every time you, like, reach over, you're worried that you're going to get yelled at. You're, like, trying to push it. It's wobbly. Like, people underestimate how big and heavy. He tried to try to do it. Did he get yelled at? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. I just had to give him credit. I just had to give him credit for that. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:04:32] Um, now I also think he was, you know, potentially strong in allies if they didn't get rid of him now, because if Joe and Eva had stuck with him at this point, they would have been hard pressed to change up later. Like this was the fork in the road. You either stay with David or you drop David. And. That could have ended up putting them in a bad position. Um, now, of course, as I mentioned to you earlier, David had a different view.

[02:05:01] He told Dalton Ross that Joe and Eva were not playing their best game at that moment. And they were caught up in their own hubris. Yes. That was an amazing statement coming from David saying that Joe and Eva were caught up in their own hubris. He used that word? Yes. Um, and of course I mentioned earlier that Robin Stephen thought it was a mistake for Joe to turn on David because he was essentially a shield.

[02:05:27] But we already discussed that with the state David was in. I don't think he'd have been a shield. Rather, I think he would have been someone they needed to be shielded from because he already showed he had issues with Joe. And he's a liability. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, now we do, of course, have the question of how Joe will be able to continue claiming he believes in honesty, loyalty and integrity after voting out David.

[02:05:55] Um, because, you know, David said in interviews, Joe absolutely lied to him and stabbed him in the back. And he thought Joe was better than that. Um, I do think Joe can emerge from this. It may not emerge totally unscathed by the accusation, but I think he'll emerge pretty clean because he can simply tell the truth. He saw that David was spiraling. He saw that David was not being loyal to their alliance.

[02:06:23] You know, David wanted to go after Kyle and Shaheen. He insulted Joe's honor. He went behind his back to repeat it to Eva. He was seemingly closer to Mary who was outside the strong five. So it had to be done even while trying to stick to his honor and loyalty mantra. I think, you know, Joe at least understood enough that he needed to play the game. David, let me ask you a question. Okay.

[02:06:49] With the players that are remaining, how many do you honestly think it's going to care that he did not stick to his word and stay with David? That's a very good question. Um, I think zero except for the hypocrisy factor. Okay. Who's going to call him out on it? Well, I don't know that they'll call him out now. The question is, if he makes it to the end, you know, David's going to call him out on it. If he makes it to the end. Will anyone else?

[02:07:18] Will anyone else buy it is the question. So I think, I just don't think you can change horses in midstream. I don't. It's not that. It's not that. If David had, had not behaved the way that he did and then they betrayed him and then he's sitting on the jury and then come final tribal council. David calls, um, Joe out on it and saying like, you preach this game of like loyalty and trust and blah, blah, blah, blah. And you backstab me.

[02:07:47] If David had not done what he did, everyone would be like, Oh, he's right. There's not a person in the game or on the jury right now. That's going to be like, I don't blame Joe for voting David out. Maybe Mary. Yeah. But I think Mary's going to come around. Yeah. I think the second that David's gone, she's going to be like, Oh, Hey Joe. Hey Eva. Like, I think that's a, I think that's what's going to happen.

[02:08:17] She's also went from like, where am I going? Where do I belong? I have a feeling she's going to be like the deciding factor. She's going to be the deciding vote. Well, and that's the question, you know, with Mary of the Alliance, except for Mary, though, she was never really in the Alliance anyway. I think work together. And I think they plan to stay together, at least for now. You know, of course, when I say the rest of the Alliance is Joe, Eva, Shaheen and Kyle officially.

[02:08:48] And I, I think it made sense for them to make this move, both for their long-term and short-term game. Yes. As for star, you know, people were like, why did star vote the way she did? Well, I think we saw the whole conversation that star had. She only talked to David and Mary. She thought that they represented the whole Alliance because they had until this point. And it's funny because she had a secret scene and she said in it that she knew everything that was going on.

[02:09:17] You know, star, I love you, but sorry. No, you were very mistaken about that. Is she out of the loop? Going on. She is totally out of the loop. I'm curious if like star is going to have this like come back or I don't even want to say like come back. What's the right word? But like this, like breakout episode. Yeah. Next episode to like get somebody in like the core five now to come and be on the other side, which. Yeah. She might possibly be Mary.

[02:09:46] Yeah, she might. And then speaking of Mary, she said in tribal council, what if you struck first when the other person was never going to strike? And that sounds very profound until you actually analyze it because there's only one winner. And even if you say, OK, but we could go to the end together and fight it out. Well, there are only three at the end and she was in an alliance of six.

[02:10:12] So someone was going to strike and it is silly for her to pretend otherwise. Yeah. And she's also going to wake up the morning after tribal council that David's gone and realized she's on the bottom of a five person alliance. And her best bet is to jump ship. She's even in five personal. Yeah. And take somebody with her. But you've also got now a four person alliance and they're probably going to stress out. So they may want to keep Mary. Yeah. I don't know.

[02:10:42] This can be interesting. Yeah. Again, I think we're taking somebody who didn't have a lot of stability in the game. And I think they're about to give her a bunch of power and stability. Yeah. You know? Yeah. All right. Well, we can go to Appendix B, which deals with the jury phase. While there were several mentions of jury management over the past couple of weeks. This vote, to my mind, didn't have anything to do with that.

[02:11:09] If anything, like we just mentioned, it hurt Joe's case with at least David. Because like I said, there's no way he's voting for him at the end now. But this vote wasn't about that. It was about the present and the need to actually get to the end. Wait, you said you don't think David will vote for who? Joe. Oh, I disagree. I disagree. I mean, unless he's doing an amazing job of acting in his interviews.

[02:11:35] Who was it that said, I hope that whoever is on the jury will, I can't remember like the exact words, but it was basically like saying like, I hope if we play an honest game, the jury members will see, will like look past all the drama and stuff and really focus on like who played the best game.

[02:12:03] I don't remember who said that. It wouldn't surprise me if David said it. But I want to say David did, but I could be completely wrong. And I know the like diehards are going to come for me. So, I mean, I don't remember it specifically. But again, since David believes and again, unless he's doing a very good job acting in all of his interviews, you know, still to this day believes that Joe did him wrong. Um, that I can't imagine him voting for Joe at the end. Now, would that matter?

[02:12:33] I don't know. I think almost everyone. We don't think Joe makes it to the end. Well, yeah, I, I, I, I've been going back and forth on that, honestly. But yeah. Look, David, I'm just so excited. This is, this is the farthest I've gone in a season of Survivor since I played that I didn't know who the winner was. See, this is what happens when you don't go to all the get togethers. I know, I don't know. I'm like, people will be like, can you be on my podcast? I'm like, sorry, I can't.

[02:13:00] I, I know too much information, but I've intentionally like just completely avoided all spoilers this season. So, um, everything that you guys are hearing from me, like, don't read too much into it. I really have no idea what's going on. So, yeah. All right. Well, with that, uh, it is about time to wrap things up. So what are your final thoughts on David? My final thoughts on David. All right.

[02:13:26] So because we were sticking with like a grading theme earlier, uh, I kind of want to stick with that because I really do believe that if we're looking at like marking periods, I really do think David had a solid B plus A minus throughout the game until what did I say? Like halfway through the seventh episode. Um, so I think similar to somebody else, I know very well as game.

[02:13:53] I think they played a great game up until the very end. And then, uh, paranoia just prepped in and took over. Validly. Validly. But, um, you know, I think he just kind of downward spiral at the end. Okay. Well, David said he wanted to play and win survivor in a way that's never been done.

[02:14:21] As I've said before, maybe consider there's a reason it's never been done that way before. It reminds me of cranks you'll find online ranting and raving, uh, that they have an idea and it, they're going to overthrow all of physics, even though they've never even taken a college course on the subject. But the thing is, even with that issue, David found himself in a pretty decent position for the moment.

[02:14:51] He was in a majority alliance with other people he believed he could trust. Of course, we knew he couldn't trust them all for the longterm, but with the position he was in, it was actually possible that he might've been able to find a way to basically block them from making a move because of the way the numbers were working out. Do I think he would have made it and proved me wrong? No, but we were talking earlier about how he believed he had a chance. If everything would have worked perfect.

[02:15:21] Kyle said in tribal council, when you see a pathway to the end, you're kind of in like, don't screw it up mode. A lot of people just screw it up. And that's what David did. Did he have some good reads of other players? Maybe if we give him the benefit of the doubt. But as I mentioned, some of those were accidental. Some were contradictory and some were self-fulfilling prophecies.

[02:15:45] Because I've noted multiple times that allies turned against David in large part because David caused them to do so. Plus, no matter how good a read you have, it's really what you do with that information. And he handled every aspect of that poorly. If he truly believed he knew supposed allies were against him, he should have schemed to get rid of them. Instead, he was essentially open about it. He should have placated them socially and pretended to still be on their side.

[02:16:15] Instead, he confronted them and argued with them and provoked them and caused them to turn on him. Like I said, self-fulfilling prophecies. David told Mike Bloom, this was supposed to be our season. The season where we don't manipulate. We don't backstab. Sure. Supposed to be. According to him. And of course, according to his own rationalized hypocritical definitions of terms like honesty and loyalty.

[02:16:43] But despite his assertions, it wasn't his season. He wasn't the only one out there. The others understood how Survivor actually works. Even Joe, who ideally would have liked to play the same way, understands better than David what actually needed to be done. Everyone saw what David had become. He was a threat to his own allies. He predicted and then caused his own demise in the game.

[02:17:12] And that is why David lost. So, all right. Well, we had a long one here. We did. Are you surprised? A little surprising, but not as surprised. There was a lot to talk about with David. We did. Now, before we get to our predictions for next episode, I want to let everyone know that next week, Jessica will be back.

[02:17:40] And we are happy to be having Chappelle on as our guest. So, it's definitely going to be a fun one there. And we also want to remind everyone that the rules we just discussed are available in poster form and T-shirt form and checklist on a T-shirt form.

[02:18:04] So, again, go to RobHasWebsite.com slash YXLostFeed and click away. Lindsay, where can people find you on social media? Go find me on Instagram. I used to be on Twitter, but we don't do that anymore. You're on Blue Sky a little bit, I think. Well, at least I have an account there because I tag you occasionally. I know, I know, I know. So, yeah, come find me on Instagram. As?

[02:18:36] Lindsay, I don't know. I'm going to have to look at it. All right. Well, so, in addition to your account on Instagram, people can find all of my various accounts by going to my link tree. That is at link tree slash David Bloomberg. And you can get all the different accounts there. Or you can find me directly on Blue Sky is at David Bloomberg.

[02:19:05] And as far as the video sites, I post two or three. I've been leaning towards three, sometimes more reality TV short videos every day on YouTube, TikTok and Instagram. Why? I'm at David Bloomberg TV. They are almost all U.S. Survivor right now. So, you know, there will be a couple from Amazing Race, maybe one or two from Netflix's Battle Camp, but almost all Survivor.

[02:19:31] Also, I mentioned last week I did some postseason interview podcasting about Million Dollar Secret for the Tradar, which you can find by searching T-R-A-I-D-A-R, wherever you normally get podcasts or on YouTube. We spoke to Sam and Lauren and Say Young. And in about a week, we'll be starting coverage of the Genius Game over on the Tradar. Oh, fun. Yeah. So now it is time for predictions. Predictions. Oh, real quick.

[02:19:59] I did look at myself on Instagram. I'm Lindsey F. Carmine. Yes. Yeah. All right. All right. I will go first here and then you can tell me why you disagree. Okay. So. Because I can already tell you. So the preview makes it seem like people are turning on Joe. Yes. But look at who's talking about it. Mary, Mitch, Star, Camilla. Nobody in Joe's alliance.

[02:20:29] So I simply don't think it's happening. Why? You don't think Kyle will turn? No. I'll let you finish. I think Kyle and Shaheen went out of their way to ensure that they had Joe and Eva on board. So they didn't blow up the whole alliance. They just cut out one part of it. So I think those four will actually end up bringing in Camilla. I know we get one scene of her saying we need to go after Joe.

[02:20:57] I think Kyle will talk to her. And say, look, this is the best way to keep playing the middle. We stick together. We bring you in. We get rid of Mary. Because Mary has been a huge part of the problem as far as they're concerned. And I think so. I'm going to predict Mary goes. Okay. So let's play out that scenario. Why?

[02:21:24] In what world would it make sense for Kyle and Camilla to turn on everyone else and stick with Joe and Eva, who everyone else sees as a threat, nobody wants to go to the end with. Why? In what world would it benefit them to stay with Joe and Eva? I think that they would see Mary as more of a threat. Because remember, Mary was the one pushing to get rid of Camilla. But how's Mary a threat? There's no world in which Mary wins this game.

[02:21:54] And that is no disrespect to Mary whatsoever. But she's not winning this game. Yeah. But I think that they, I think Kyle will want to keep the stability of what turns out to be a majority alliance for the moment. And if he can have Camilla as a, you know, a partner secret or not,

[02:22:24] then he only needs one more person eventually to turn on Joe and Eva. So when you look at this, like core five of people that are like, Hey, strength, blah, blah, blah. Kyle was kind of like, Oh, you think I'm strong too? Yeah. Yeah. I'll join your group. Right. He joined it because he was like, this is my safe space. Right. But more you play with the safe players, you start to realize, Oh wait, they're the threats.

[02:22:50] And then you're like, Oh wait, I got Camilla and Oh wait, I've got a couple of these people too. I'm just trying to think logistically at what point is Kyle going to be like, yeah, that's a great idea for me to stick with the three people who are the most. Uh, what's the right word? Oh my God. Um, if, if they're the biggest like threats in the game, why am I staying with them? Well, if he stays with them, he knows.

[02:23:18] He bought into the whole, like, well, he didn't buy into it, but he knows they did. So I know if he sticks with them, he knows Joe and Eva will not turn on him. You cannot say the same thing. He just saw them turn on someone they said they wouldn't turn on. Yeah. Because David went nuts. I mean, you know, that's, you know, so I think that he will feel still safe with them.

[02:23:48] And he would not feel safe with the ragtag group of others. Like we'll start turn on me. I don't know. Will Mitch turn on me? I don't know. Will, will Mary turn on me? Yes, absolutely. So, you know. But are you more threatened by the non-threatening people? Like remove yourself from like the Phantom and the TV show and all of that. When you're out there and you're in the thick of it, are you going with the people that you think you have more control over?

[02:24:16] Or the people that you feel like are just dragging you along because you're a number for them and you're disposable? I mean. I think Kyle is going to get a little bit of what David got. I think at some point, Kyle is going to be like, oh, I got a little bit of control. I don't think so. And also, no. And also, we saw how close him and Joe were. You know? I mean, they had become very close. I hear you on that.

[02:24:41] And I'm underestimating the amount of attachment that Joe and Eva are going to have when they realize like they need. So let's not forget, he knows Eva has an idol and a safety without power. So if he were to suddenly turn on Joe, you know someone is going to run back and tell Joe or Eva. And they're going to use both of those and leave them hanging. And then they're screwed.

[02:25:09] I'm honestly wondering why Joe's sticking with Eva. Well, that's. I got to be honest. Because it's not for. No, I know. I know the obvious stuff. Yeah. I'm just thinking from like a game player's perspective. At what point has it occurred to them? He's not. We're sitting ducks right now. He has said it at least twice. He has said, I will protect you even if it means me losing. Yeah.

[02:25:37] Someone said that to me once and we saw where that got us. Well, yeah. They weren't honest like Joe. Yeah. I know. I just don't see how this is going to end well for Joe. Yeah. I mean, I don't think so either. I think Kyle. Do you think he wins? Who do you think? No, no. I mean, my pregame prediction was Eva. I do not think so now. Now. I think. I mean, I'm. I'm thinking Kyle has a chance.

[02:26:07] What? You think you deserve. Who do you think deserves to win? How about that? I think you have to wait and see. There is no deserve. There is who wins. You know, there is. There is no such thing as deserves. Okay. We. Honestly, before. We learned that on other seasons where perhaps the audience did not agree with what the jury chose. I won't mention any season's name. Does that happen? Yeah. Sometimes. It's really weird. That's why deserves is such a difficult path to go down.

[02:26:37] Fair. Fair. All right. What's your prediction? My prediction. I'm predicting who's going to go home next week. Yes. I'm going to spice it up. I think it's going to be either Joe or Eva. There's no way they stay in the game this long. I think they're the biggest threats in the game. From a topical standpoint. I mean, the only thing I'll say is whoever does it has to keep it a damn secret because Eva can save both of them.

[02:27:09] I think they'll be able to keep it a secret. I mean. Eva has. And this is me not saying this. This is her words. She said she lives in a world of black and white and that she doesn't understand clues. She doesn't understand when people are lying to her. The benefit of that. And I hate this. You know, I hate saying this. The benefit of that is that. They now only have one obstacle instead of two. Yeah.

[02:27:40] In their way in order to pull off a blind side against the two of them. Yeah. So. And she's also told them this information. Right. So we'll see how that goes. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, let's let's throw some spice into the mix. My prediction is one of them go home next week. Okay. Okay. Well, as we wrap up, I want to encourage people to check out the RHAP patron program at Rob

[02:28:06] has a website dot com slash patron and get access to all the special podcasts that are put out just for patrons plus Facebook groups and discord. And Rob also sent out a survey to patrons. I took the survey. All right. I took the survey today. Was it today? Yeah. So, you know, fill out that survey, send it in, you know, helps helps Rob to decide what, you know, you know, where to take the network.

[02:28:31] Uh, and you can of course support shows like ours and everything on the network by becoming a patron at Rob has a website dot com slash patron. Uh, also make sure you're subscribed to all of the RHAP survivor podcast by going to we know survivor.com. You'll see the whole selection of survivor podcasts there. You can select your podcast service of choice. And like I said, all the great content like us, the know it all is the B and B survivor global and much more.

[02:28:58] So, uh, thank you to everybody on the, uh, reality TV rehab ups team, uh, who, you know, behind the scenes does all the work, uh, Scott and Jess and Doug, uh, and everyone else. Um, and of course, thank you so much, Lindsay. Uh, you know, you did not know when you originally said, sure, I'll be the guest. You didn't know you were going to be jumping in to be a full on sub.

[02:29:24] Uh, so thank you very much, uh, for being flexible and, uh, being able to do that. Oh, I love it. I honestly was like so honored. I was like, he's going to ask me to like cover for Jess. So I was definitely excited. I appreciate it. Yes, absolutely. Uh, you did a great job. And, uh, so thank you again. We will see everyone in a week with Chappelle. And until then you can, you know, find us on social media. Bye.

[02:29:54] Bye. We are a translator and you're feeling down. David and Jessica will turn it around. They'll break down the rules and we'll show you how. You played yourself and got voted out. This is why blank lost. And this is why blank lost. Oh, baby, this is why blank lost.

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