Why ___ Lost: Survivor 48 Ep 2 with Jordan Kalish

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[00:00:57] slash radio. If you lost survivor and you're feeling down, David and Jessica will turn it around. They'll break down the rules and we'll show you how. You're playing yourself and got voted out. This is why blank lost. And this is why blank lost. Oh baby, this is why blank lost.

[00:01:33] Welcome back to why blank lost. I'm David Bloomberg and I will admit that in survivor, you have to be dishonest and you can't win a dishonest game by being honest. So it is more honest to play this game dishonest. Hmm. That's an interesting little takeaway from the episode. But we are honest here on this podcast. And that of course includes my cohost, Jessica Lewis. Yes, here I am yet again.

[00:02:01] And I will say that I try very hard to be honest on this podcast with the information that is provided to us in the ways that we are able to put it together and acquire it and accumulate it. And we can only do so much with what we are given, which is why I'm so terribly bad at everything I do on this podcast when it comes to my predictions. So I will just put that up there. Only the predictions. Just the predictions. That's the problem where issues lie. Yes.

[00:02:29] And those of you who are watching on video can already see that we have another guest, another great guest this week. Of course, if you watched or listen last week, you already knew he was coming, but he is the master of survivor trivia, a man who would never be dishonest, but might make some honest math errors. Jordan Kalish. How are you doing, David? That's that's a great, great introduction. And Jessica, how are you doing as well? It's great to be here on Why Blank Lost.

[00:02:59] I'm a longtime listener of the podcast, but I have never actually graced the the airwaves or the screen and made an appearance on this podcast. So I'm very excited to be here. David, I am planning on being very honest here on Why Blank Lost and giving the reasons why I think Kevin was voted out of the game. And I do think that you both were very honest with each other last week. David, you maybe were a little bit too brutally honest. I think you were a little hard on Jessica with the whole the whole Stephanie winner thing.

[00:03:29] Thank you very much. She was good. I thought she was pretty good in her pregame stuff. You don't know what's going to happen. Right. And you do when Jessica picks you as her winner pick. Well, I mean, look, my my my winner pick was not the first boot, but it doesn't matter. It's fine. Oh, yes. So you can you can add to my pain. Thank you very much. You were winning for a minute there, Jordan. You were supporting me and I appreciate that. And now you're going right back the other direction.

[00:03:55] No, but I still I still think David, you get you gave her a little bit too much flack there. A little too much flack. Well, thank you. Thank you for that. No such thing. You know what's bad news for my winner pick? My winner pick. I'm sure we'll be touching on this guy because he was on the he is on the tribe that went to tribal council. My winner pick is Justin. Oh, he's also the winner pick of Rob Sesternino. And there have been I feel like multiple times in Survivor where Rob and I have had the same winner pick and they have never won. Rob has had winner picks.

[00:04:24] I've had winner picks be correct. It's been a little while for me, but I don't think Rob and I have ever had been correct when we both picked the same winner. I'm hoping that Justin is able to break break that streak here. Yep, he might. He might. He has a better chance of Stephanie. So mean. Yeah, she's already right. She's already gone. Okay. Everybody knows this. We appreciate the reminder David.

[00:04:48] She was lovely in her pregame press and and I will say and I'm not going to continue to defend it because I shouldn't have to but there has certainly been a quirky element to a lot of people that we've seen with. And I thought, wow, she's she might have that little extra thing that that not even just winners would have made it very close to winning. Right. So I thought maybe there was that little extra something that would go to work there. But unfortunately, I should have gone with my gut.

[00:05:19] My gut was like, no, don't pick Stephanie. I wanted to pick Thomas, but I was because I just love Thomas. And I think I mentioned this. I just want to drink iced coffee with him and and just gossip about everyone. And Thomas was so great in the episode. So I can't wait to talk about Thomas. I'll talk about Thomas. It just might be a little later in this podcast. Well, they're a little hint of things to come. Fascinating. Yes, yes.

[00:05:47] We're using so I I love to since Thomas has come up where I really loved Thomas in this episode. I think that, you know, we haven't had so much villainy in the new era. And I think he is definitely if if this, you know, sabotage of star goes through, I think he definitely becomes one of the early villains of the season. I was a little bit worried because they were showing that tribe a lot. I was like, this is tribal tribal. And there was this little creeping thought that I had during the episode.

[00:06:15] Are they setting Thomas up to go here? Because you had who was talking about how he was worried about Thomas's villainous streak, potentially. So I was a little bit worried about him until the the Vula tribe ended up going back to tribal council. I think there was probably a reason for seeing so much of that tribe in addition to Thomas, but it was everything surrounding the inability for anyone to keep secret.

[00:06:42] Right. Like star told one person, then told another person, then told somebody else and then somebody else. And then that person, everybody knew. And I by the end of it, I was like, what, what? This is just a group project at this point for everyone to figure out how to open up this container with this idol. I just thought it was it was stunning to me. And this is why I will say I'm rocking an old school survivor T-shirt, which I did not know you would be wearing the same.

[00:07:08] This was not planned, but people need to stop telling everybody what they found. Like, just knock it off. Keep your secrets. It's much better that way. And I miss that component of like less, less sharing, please just stop. I mean, I think I'm sharing. I think that a survivor is purposely creating things like this where it is useful to get more people involved.

[00:07:34] That said, she already had people involved. She didn't need to keep adding on that. It was comical. It was like, OK, she told she had a cookie. She wanted them wanted to see if they wanted the cookie. Yeah, I think say did it the right way last week where she brought in certain members of her tribe. And we see that in episode one, episode two. Those are the people that she's now working with. And the reason that she's still in the game is that she's made these connections with those people. I think that when you tell every single other person on your tribe, it's no longer special.

[00:08:04] Step one. And I think that Star went from being on the bottom to maybe creeping out of the bottom. But now if you're telling everybody, it's hard to then trust you because, you know, who if you're telling Joe, if Joe finds out that that or from from Shaheen that Thomas and Bianca know about the advantage. How are they ever supposed to like say, oh, this we're going to use Star to maybe go out after one of those two when she's telling them all the secrets?

[00:08:33] I don't think that Star did this all that well in this episode. However, I do think my prospects on Star are a little bit better than they were last episode, because now she at least has the potential to find an idol if she's not sabotaged by it by Thomas. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've we've jumped ahead a little bit to talking about stuff from the episode before I do my normal.

[00:08:57] Hopefully not why one gloss three is talking about either one of those, you know, because just so, you know, for anyone who might be tuning in for the first time or wondering what's going on here. Each week, you know, after we get done with the stuff before the rules about other things that are going on, we compare what the player who's voted out did in the game to my rules for winning.

[00:09:19] That originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since using all the non spoiler information available to us from what we saw on TV interviews, social media and secret scenes. The newest published version of the rule is you can find it by going to Rob has a website dot com slash YX locks bead and clicking on the link bubble for survivor rules. Now, I did want to mention before we even get to back back to stuff from the episode.

[00:09:46] It's interesting, Jordan, that you pick the the pizza guy because, you know, way back when I don't remember if there was pizza on the running up Reno casino buffet. But Jordan and I hung out there. This was years and years ago, and we got a selection of every type of meat that we could get. We were meat collectors. We were meat collectors in Reno. Is this your humble trade?

[00:10:16] No, this was our this was this was this was before my heart attack. Yeah, my humble trade is now a high blood pressure. You're probably. Yeah, there's that. And then I later had a heart attack. So maybe it was a little too much meat collection. Yes, yes. Yeah, that's fascinating. But so, Jordan, other than that, of course, we get to hear you every week on this week in survivor history.

[00:10:43] But other than that, that's the other that's the other thing that gives me high blood pressure. Sure. The stress I'm sure is helping. I'm sure this is making it so much better for you. The stress of making math errors publicly on a podcast and then also sodium. Well, I mean, you know, this week you didn't make any math errors that I heard. You just mislabeled one of the survivor seasons. It was still a number related error. You know what? That that might be my flack with the with with the new era seasons being named the number of the season.

[00:11:12] I mean, I know what happened on each season. But when you're writing it down, you sort of do lose track a little bit of what of which player was which season, which tribe was which season. And if you if I really sat down and thought about it, I could probably tell you most of the if I did the sporkle quiz, most of the players from each of the new era seasons. But apparently I did not go over my notes all that carefully.

[00:11:34] I yeah, there's times when I'm in a rush or something for one podcast or another and I'll I'll be reading my notes and I'll realize they don't make sense. So I'm going to have to figure this out on the fly. You know what? What what's happening here? But so. Well, Jordan, I think it's truly incredibly impressive, regardless of any errors you might make mathematically. It's still really the the amount of information that you retain is incredible. I appreciate it.

[00:12:02] And if I could only now use the other pockets of my brain for counting and correctly checking my notes, that would be great. Yes, we, of course, were on this week in Survivor's history many moons ago, long time ago, and we did awesome. We I'm still troubled by the hat question. The damn hat question. I don't remember the hat question. It was about what type of hat a particular survivor was wearing. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:32] I still I still I still I still remember this. I still remember this, whether it was like I was to it was between like two different teams and we picked the wrong team. So anyway, I just remember that someone accused us of cheating in the comments. I do remember that long. Well, you took so long. We were looking up answers and it's like, no, we just don't remember anything. Your your crime was not cheating. You guys wouldn't cheat.

[00:12:59] Your your crime was turning what's normally a 15 to 20 minute segment to like a 35. Yes. Yes. And I think after that, I don't know if we ever really did like the two guests on a team. No, that's probably a good plan because I see the problem that I find with we did break it. Like I have a lot of memories of Survivor in my head, but I don't have them structured in a way like you do, Jordan, where you can put them like season to season. Like I'm like, oh, no, I remember that. But who was that?

[00:13:28] When was and then I have to replay things. So it takes me a lot longer to really straighten it out in my head. So not so good for question and answer format like you were striving for in a quick pace. Not good at it. So I apologize. When you when you grow up only watching Survivor in sports, you tend to you tend to retain that information. Yeah, you definitely do. So unfortunately, I have not retained it in that fashion. So, yeah. But thanks for having us so many years ago. That was great. It was great having you.

[00:13:57] And it's great being back here. We are we are now wiser. We have so many more seasons of Survivor under our belts and we're ready to figure out why Kevin lost. Not yet, because before we do that, we always have some other things to discuss. And you've already talked about some of it. But I do want to start by pointing out that so many people predicted say would be next out of this tribe because what they saw, what they saw of her overplaying the first episode.

[00:14:24] And of course, we will talk about that more as we go through since it came down to a battle between her and Kevin. But I just want to mention here that, you know, we can't always presume we've seen everything that happened and conclude future outcomes from it. I had a feeling she had more staying power, saying power, saying power. Yes. I mean, like people said, oh, look, it's after the first episode. Say doesn't have a social game.

[00:14:53] And yet part of the reason that Cedric was so loyal to her was their social relationship. Like her reminding him of his daughter and her calling him dad, which, you know, we obviously didn't see at the time. But right. I think that's her biggest strength so far by by far. Like, I mean, I think strategically she's definitely thinking strategically and maybe even I wouldn't say overplaying, but I think that she's maybe saying more than she needs to say at tribal council.

[00:15:21] But I think the reason why she's saying that a woman named say is saying more than she needs to say. Yes. But I and that is something that could bite her in the butt later on. But I do think saying that she has a lack of social game is totally incorrect. I think the reason she's still in the game is because of the social game. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:40] And I don't even know if it would be her social game is one thing, but it's more of the her approach to the social game, I think, is where it's it's tough for people to understand because she is forming those relationships. But she's also doing it in a very like upfront, like honest, very much like this is what's happening. This is what we're doing like right now, right now. And that can be a little inundating and overwhelming, I think, to people.

[00:16:05] If you are just kind of that forceful and upfront about how things how you want them to go. Right. But in her mind, this is a game that moves fast and I have to move fast. And if you're not going to keep up with me, I'm going to keep going. And that's exactly what she did. She moved on from these two over here, moved over to these two and formulated an alliance. And that was that. And then kept moving from there. So it is an interesting type of social game because it's just moving at a different type of pace. Yeah.

[00:16:31] It's an approach that works that has worked so far because I think she is on a good tribe for her. I think she clearly has a good relationship with both Cedric and Justin, who both had her back, especially Cedric in this in this episode. Is it the kind of thing that could hurt her down the line where not everyone does respond well to that approach? And we'll have to see if she gets to the point of the game where she is working with other players post merge or post if there's a swap on the season. Right. And it might or might not. I hope it does because she's pretty fascinating to watch. Yeah.

[00:17:01] Now, Nora Linda wondered to me on Blue Sky what we think Cedric hadn't told her the plan. And, you know, of course, it's hard to say since there was still time and she might well have sniffed out that something was up because it would have required Cedric to lie to her. And maybe she would have picked up on that. But if he had managed to be a stone faced about it, as he told her to be, I don't think that she would have had any reason to play her idol.

[00:17:30] But that's why it's good that you make these connections in the game. You know? Yeah. I think I think the result would have been I actually saw that that Blue Sky response to you and I answered by saying I think that say wasn't going to go either way. I think it was going to be Mary if Kevin hadn't gone so hard in the direction of trying to save Mary and get out. Say I and I think that the main result from this is that. Kevin or Mary probably would have been voted out.

[00:17:58] Say probably would have still had her idol, which would have been better for say, but probably worse for Cedric and Justin. So I do think actually, I don't even think it's what Cedric was intending to do. I think at that point he really thought that there was a chance that say can go. But I do think the main result was her not having the idol anymore. And I don't think it really had anything to do that. I don't think that conversation had anything to do with Kevin going home. I think that Kevin went home because of how Kevin played the round. We'll get to that. We'll get it. We'll get it. Gordon, don't jump ahead.

[00:18:28] If there's something he doesn't like. He just said how he played. You know, we'll get to how he played. Follow the rules. Yes. Now, moving to another tribe. This was Mitch's big day on Survivor. He he won the voting block. He got applause from his tribe for telling them that he won. He got to explain to Jeff and the national TV audience how to properly let a person with a speech impediment finish. And he was the star of the immunity challenge and brought them back from second place to win.

[00:18:57] This was this should have been labeled Mitch's big day. That should have been the title of the episode. And I love the underhand. Okay. Just future survivors. Just throw it underhand. That's the better way to do it. Yeah. So, yeah. And I agree with that. I've I am also like like Mitch, a PE teacher. So I am. He's definitely one of the players on this season. I'm rooting for. I have told students that if you are having trouble with accuracy in certain games, sometimes it does make sense to toss underhand instead of throw overhand. So I do think that's definitely a thing there.

[00:19:27] I think Mitch with his PE background definitely definitely knows that and was able to use that to a lot of success in the challenge. In my PE class, I do something called at the end of every five week period. We do something called PE all star where one kid for per grade is the PE all star. And it's someone who's who's, you know, enthusiastic about PE and has great sportsmanship and is a team player. I think that Mitch is the PE all star of this episode. Yes.

[00:19:54] And on top of it, as part of winning the advantage on the journey, he got a numbers puzzle right. So there was no Kalish math. That's where that's where Mitch and I differ. We might both be PE teachers. I don't think that there is a website where you could try that challenge. I have tried it a bunch of times. I cannot figure it out. I would not have. I would have been in the Mary spot. Yeah. Well, I don't I didn't even attempt to try to figure it out myself.

[00:20:23] I'd probably do terrible at it as well. So I'm with you, Jordan. I'm sure it would probably not be a fine day for me. I'd be with Mary. But yes, Mitch was definitely great. And I do love the fact that Mitch was so welcomed when he shared the information with his tribe and that there wasn't any of this like disdain or oh no.

[00:20:44] I mean, so that just goes to show and to tell you where he is in that tribe, that he is in a very, very good place because they were also very happy for him. Well, despite now. Well, what's the face for? I mean, he seems to be in a very good place. But then they started talking about the core four started talking about him because I know, but I charity. So I think that's a red herring, too. It's throwing us off.

[00:21:09] I think it could be it could end up being like the so-called men's alliance of the Vula tribe, which which was a one episode thing. Yeah. I mean, it is possible that this for that this core four is the main alliance. I do think that Mitch is in a spot where charity would probably be the target if they did go to a tribal council based on what we've seen. But we've seen so little from that tribe because they're so good at challenges. They might never even go to tribal as a group.

[00:21:34] I think that Mitch is in a spot where if that four person alliance is as strong as they're making us believe, he might not be in a great spot because he would mean he's in a majority of his sorry, a minority on this tribe. If this is really just like, OK, maybe from David's perspective, who's the main person that we see championing this four person alliance, if if we're really seeing it from his perspective, but we're not actually seeing it from all their perspectives. Mitch might be making inroads and charity might be making inroads.

[00:22:03] We just don't know enough about that tribe to really, I think, make a call there. Yeah. Speaking of David, by the way, I just realized the shirt that I'm wearing. This is a bell. It is not anything related to like David in the chest area. You know, the just just want to. Point that out. You know, I think it's not. It's not. Yeah, correct. Correct. So we had to at least mention it, I guess. Yes. Oh, you were talking about David. I'm looking at that. Just put this in my notes.

[00:22:32] Not not a nipple shirt. OK. Yes. Yes. The bell. An Ireland bell shirt. So anyone was wondering. Yes. Yeah. I have the same bell on this side of my glass. So there you are. I have that bell. I have that bell on my my this week in Survivor History score sheet. That's so everyone's got the nipple bell. Yeah. We all. OK. So, yeah, that's that was that was a fun scene.

[00:22:56] I mean, I think I think when when you're getting material from a tribe talking about their their like body imperfections or what it was, it was the name of the episode. It was the humble humble traits. I think that it's just it's just shows that that's not the tribe that's going to be going to travel council anytime soon. Yeah. I'm voting her out because she has a space between her toes. That was just a really fun scene.

[00:23:22] I will say, like, I do appreciate the fact that they are giving time to those moments when you're out on the island and you really have nothing to do but kill time. And so you start talking about things like extra nipples and your weird toes and things of that nature. So it was very entertaining to see. So, yes, I once went to sleepaway camp with somebody who who had a third nipple. And this I was I was a kid. This kid in our bunk. I don't remember his name.

[00:23:51] The reason I don't remember his name is that his name became Trini. So Trini was at our camp and I he I think he was a one year camper. I don't think he ever came back probably because he got the nickname Trini. I was going to say, I think we know the explanation. No, this was not it was it was he was he was like a likable kid. He wasn't it wasn't I think he at least pretended to appreciate the nickname. But he didn't he didn't come back to camp.

[00:24:19] So maybe maybe Trini didn't didn't love it. I didn't work out so well. Yeah, maybe David. David has still has an even number of nipples. So, David, is there a rule? Do you have a rule in the rule like a sub rule about nipples? How many you're supposed to have? I do not. I guess it would be rule three if we did be flexible. Coincidentally, so. But yeah, I guess.

[00:24:44] But we also have to remember, you know, the the infamous Scaramanga from James Bond, who also had three nipples. So but not four. He just had. I don't know anyone that has an extra nipple. So I certainly probably not something that's often talked about. And if you don't go around topless now, Jordan, you could clearly play your extra nipple off as like a birthmark. I think it actually takes a lot of courage. I thought you were going to say you could play it as an idol. Yeah, I mean, maybe maybe on a future season. Don't give that. We're voting on ideas for 50.

[00:25:13] That could be it. I think I think it's easy to play off as a birth as a birthmark. David David's extra nipples don't really look like nipples. No, well, he said he had them removed. That's true. That's true. Yeah, so you're right. Even need to mention it. He could have just left it alone. But he decided he's like, hey, you know, listen. I but what I do appreciate is that someone I don't know if it was Chrissy or or I think it might have been Chrissy. That was basically like, oh, see, in fairness, God gave him two extra nipples.

[00:25:43] You know, like needed to take him down a few notches. Like, all right, you know, we're just you're going to be in the nipple line a little bit longer over here. Yes. Now, Jordan has appeared topless on a podcast. That is true. Also, it was more of a more of a live stream than a podcast. Yeah. Bring us back to our Reno days once again, where Rob broadcasted me live to to the world. Accidentally, accidentally. He didn't know I was going to be out. Oh, OK. This was intentional. No, I was at the pool.

[00:26:12] I was at the pool and Rob's room over. I was in the pool. Let's let's let's nip this one in the bud, guys. Let's move on. I'm sure everyone is like, what is happening? Milking this for all it's worth. Yeah. Oh, God, you really did that. Yeah, I did. I have to credit credit Jessica Lease for that one, for encouraging that line of thinking. So, oh, goodness.

[00:26:40] Well, with that, do either of you have anything or anyone else you want to discuss before we get to the rules? Hmm. I think I'm I'm good to go. Yeah, I got my I got my my paragraphs of notes about about the Vula tribe. So I think we're good to go. OK, well, there were, of course, some other things going on. And I'll be putting some of that in like YouTube shorts and the like at at David Bloomberg TV.

[00:27:09] But aside from that, of course. We have a way to review the rules that we're about to go over in shorter and much more colorful form. And that is as a poster. So you can go to Rob has a website dot com slash YX lost feed. Scroll down to the poster, click on it, order it. And our shipping department will get right on top of it. In addition to the poster, you can keep scrolling to get the poster on a T-shirt.

[00:27:39] Or the checklist version on a T-shirt as well. Can you get the checklist on a poster? You well, I guess you could just hang up the T-shirt. That's a good point. Yeah. So now I have it on a mug, but they stopped selling those because it's kind of tiny writing. So again, go to Rob has a website dot com slash YX lost feed for all of your rules needs.

[00:28:09] That's right. Wir sind Teresa und Nemo. Und deshalb sind wir zu Shopify gewechselt. Die Plattform, die wir vor Shopify verwendet haben, hat regelmäßig Updates gebraucht, die teilweise dazu geführt haben, dass der Shop nicht funktioniert hat. Endlich macht unser Nemo Boards Shop dadurch auch auf den Mobilgeräten eine gute Figur. Und die Illustrationen auf den Boards kommen jetzt viel, viel klarer rüber, was uns ja auch wichtig ist und was unsere Marke auch ausmacht.

[00:28:35] Starte dein Test noch heute für 1 Euro pro Monat auf Shopify.de slash radio. So with that, Kevin looked ahead in the game and didn't like what he saw. He worried that if they voted out his ally Mary this time, they'd probably lose another challenge. Don't know why he'd think that. And he would be on the chopping block next.

[00:29:00] So he fixed that by putting himself on the chopping block this time. Did he have any good reasons for making this move? Could he have gone about it differently? Or should he have just sat back and let Mary go? At RHAP, we know Survivor and we know why Kevin lost. Now, the first and most important rule is to scheme and plot. And Kevin certainly came in knowing that.

[00:29:25] In fact, he had a whole plan that he discussed in his pregame interview with Mike Bloom. He had Kevin's family tree. He wanted to make himself a family member to everyone. He wanted another guy as a meat shield and a woman to ensure there wasn't a woman's alliance. And I wondered in our preseason podcast what would happen when something disrupted the plan. And sure enough, it did. Because he was the meat shield in his tribe.

[00:29:53] And there sure wasn't a woman's alliance, though he did create a sisterly bond with Mary. So he had to change things on the fly, but also came back from earning supplies to find out he'd been put into a four-person alliance without even knowing anyone. From what we saw, it looked like he and Justin had a good spot in the middle. But he told Mike, it showed us being really, really close in the first episode, but we weren't that close.

[00:30:22] He added that Justin and Cedric were actually much closer to each other. So while he did make the alliance with Mary, he felt like he was on the bottom of the core four alliance. And after Mary was gone, he'd probably be next. Yeah, and I actually, when we were doing our predictions at the beginning of the season, had concerns for Kevin for many of the reasons you've already expressed. And that was the, he just seemed like he was going to play the game too fast, too quickly.

[00:30:51] And I was very concerned because what we've discussed so many times on this podcast is when you come in with so many set plans as to how to play this game. And then if things don't go according to plan, do you have the ability to adjust on the fly? And I think he wanted to. I think he was trying to, but that actually put him in a worse position.

[00:31:11] And so it was just one of those circumstances where I was certainly worried about him playing at a pace that just wouldn't match up with the rest of the tribe. But unfortunately, we also have Say who was doing that, but doing it even faster. So it was this very weird combination that you were watching where Say was really like moving at light speed and he was trying to, but then he was just playing catch up.

[00:31:38] And it just put him in a really, really difficult position because she was already like off to the races and he was trying to get where she already was. Yeah, I think Kevin is someone who came on the show. He's not one of a lot of times you have people that are voted out early on in the game. And I think this is less common in the new era. I think a lot of the early boots in the new era seasons of Survivor are actually people who really know the game very well.

[00:32:03] And maybe if they were in a different position or on a different tribe or even on a different season would have done better. I think Kevin is one of those people. I could see Kevin playing Survivor and doing very, very well. If he wasn't on this tribe, he would probably still be in the game and he may have done a better job maybe bonding with people on the other tribes. And he was still he was bonding. He had the good relationship with Mary. He had a relationship with Cedric and Justin. I think the whole like three person guys alliance was sort of was more of an editing myth than a real thing.

[00:32:33] So I do think that Kevin does have strategic and social chops to play Survivor well. I think that having that initial shoulder injury in the first challenge really hurt him. I think going on the journey in the in the first episode, even though he brought back the supplies, I think the time away from the tribe really hurt him. And I think that the you know, he may have had this. And again, based on his exit interview, he didn't really perceive it that he was in this power three with Justin and Cedric.

[00:33:01] But the show sort of made us made it look like that early on. I really think say is in that position, is in the position that the show wanted us to think Kevin was in. I think say isn't and she's not on the bottom of the Cedric and Justin thing. I think that she is right now. I would almost say that Cedric is in the ultimate power position on that on this tribe, because I can't imagine a world that he gets voted out at the next tribe or even the one after that.

[00:33:27] But I think that say in Justin, Justin had a lot of different and I have these written down in my notes. A lot of conversations during the show where Justin spoke up for say and protected her in conversations. Cedric, obviously, I don't think he was he was trying to game her by telling her to play the idol. I think he really thought that there was a chance that she would need to. So I think that say and Cedric are incredibly close. I think that say and Justin are close and Cedric and Justin are close.

[00:33:54] I think it's a a tight three person alliance, which makes me worried for Mary in the next episode. If they were. Yeah, there's lots of reasons to worry for Mary. Yeah, sure. And she she had no idea. She did not know that Kevin was was going here. I think she thought that that that say was or she probably thought that she was going out. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, and if not her, then if not her, then say. Right. So I do think that this solidifies those three people more.

[00:34:20] And I think I think for Kevin, he would have been if they voted out Mary here. And I think if he had done I think if Kevin had just done the Stephanie Berger strategy and sat on his hands, I think it would have been Mary. And I think that he would have been next if this tribe goes to tribal council. But a lot could happen in the game. Yes. There could be 100 percent. Yeah. There could be an argument between some of these people, these players who have gotten close. They could win the challenge. Which Vula does just because they've lost the first two challenges.

[00:34:50] I mean, I don't love their chances of winning the challenges, but it could happen. And I think if you buy yourself another round, things could happen in this game. There could be a swap. I mean, that doesn't look like from the preview that there's going to be a swap next time. But you don't know what's coming further down the line. I think he took himself from a bad spot to a worse spot by scheming and plotting too much, which I'm sure we'll look at too soon. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he said both on the show and in interviews that he anticipated them losing a lot.

[00:35:20] And so he was thinking ahead. Yeah. And he didn't want say to stick around with her idol for this vote because then she could play it next vote and he could end up going. Sure. You know, no matter what. And, you know, he even told Cedric after the challenge that if Mary goes today, they're toast next time. And he told us say was the biggest threat in the game. So if she were gone, he'd be in the power position and Mary would owe him everything, et cetera.

[00:35:43] But it's interesting to me that he said he felt this way because in Stephanie's interviews last week, she made things sound much different. She praised his game and talked about him talking to everyone. And she also said her goal at tribal council was to point out that Kevin's name was not coming up in discussions. And he was truly the king of Vula and was playing a really good strategic game to run the tribe.

[00:36:09] Now, far be it from me to suggest Stephanie didn't really know what was going on in her own tribe. But given this outcome, I think it's possible she had a misread of the situation. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think, you know, again, she's only there for was a day two or day three that she got voted out. And every every single player, when there's six players on a tribe, there are six different realities. And that reality is your perception.

[00:36:37] I think that her perception of based on that interview of what was happening on this tribe wasn't necessarily correct. Correct. I think that she clearly liked Kevin and maybe maybe Kevin Kevin's move, if he wanted to get himself out of the spot, would have maybe been to work with Mary and Stephanie in the first round and try to pull in one of the other people on the tribe. I mean, hindsight's 2020. Obviously, he's he becomes the second person voted out.

[00:37:03] So obviously there's voting out. Stephanie wasn't the wasn't the best move. I don't I don't think that Kevin could have even really necessarily known that. I don't think Kevin played badly. I think Kevin was in a tough spot, primarily because the injury and the journey and also just the fact that three people on his tribe really bonded. And I think that Kevin and that's why I say I think that he's someone who could do really well on a different tribe or on a different season.

[00:37:31] This was not the tribe for him. And I think that if he had maybe had that one extra round, if Mary goes here, if he had that one extra round to maneuver or maybe to win a challenge, he could have done OK going forward in the game. I still think that his and that's why I don't think it's like, oh, this was a terrible move to try to go after. I think it was a fine move. I think it was based on things that were actually happening on his tribe.

[00:37:54] It just didn't work out. And it moved his his his his boot up one more one spot earlier. Yeah, well, I think. Oh, I'm sorry. I just wanted to one thing that you did reference, Jordan, I think is very significant and affected his ability, I think, to scheme and plot appropriately. Was the fact that he got sent to that first challenge and missed all of that time. And that's when say was really like taking off. Right.

[00:38:21] That was when she was form forming these bonds with people and really like bringing the group together. And so much so on Kevin, by the time he finally returned, he's like, I was like the fourth man without any choice. They just were like, oh, it's it's you, Kevin. We're going to we're going to include you in this group, which I'm sure had an effect on his desire to necessarily want to even work with these people. Because he's like, well, I'm like the added fourth person. I wasn't here when this was created.

[00:38:47] It was it's very we've seen very similar things happen in other seasons where the person who is off on the reward is then just brought in and they don't get that bonding time and they don't feel as connected to the group they're supposed to be with. So I I do think that that definitely affected his ability to have that time to create the structure that he needed with this group instead of just kind of being, you know, the add on at the end.

[00:39:12] Sure. And I think he also may have misread how close Cedric and Justin were with say because he goes to them with this plan. And I don't know if he would have necessarily done that if he realized that Cedric thought of say as a daughter or that Justin trust say as to the extent that he does, which he Justin, I think, said it three different times in conversations during this episode.

[00:39:37] And he maybe should have picked up on it because there was a conversation that first strategic conversation from the Vula tribe when three men talking. Justin does talk about trusting say. And I think Kevin sort of glossed over that point. And if he had me and if he had picked up on that, I do think he might have just let it be Mary, which is too bad for him, because I think Mary is probably the person he trusts the most. But at least then it's Mary going from his perspective. It's Mary going and not Kevin going.

[00:40:04] Right. And I and I'll have some thoughts of as we move into the second rule here, which says not to scheme a plot too much and to keep your scheming secret, because there have already been debates both online on other podcasts. You already dipped your toe in the water here, Jordan, on whether or not Kevin violated this rule. Was he trying to backstab too soon by turning on say when Mary was a perfectly good target? So should he have just waited to see what happened?

[00:40:29] Now, Stephen Fishback said on Blue Sky that he felt Kevin made the optimal play, but it blew up in his face because other people were also making optimal plays. Now, I agree. There are some good reasons for Kevin making this move. And, you know, we've already gone over some of them. I still wouldn't call it optimal play.

[00:40:50] On the positive side, he hoped he could convince Justin and Cedric that it was logical to get rid of say and or her idol so they didn't have to worry about it next vote. Because as we discussed in the first rule, he he thought he would be the next target after Mary. But what makes it not optimal was what you have were just talking about, Jordan. And he acknowledged in his interviews he knew he was at the bottom of the alliance.

[00:41:19] He repeatedly talked about the influence that say had in the tribe. So with all of that in mind. Why would he think he could put this idea out into the universe and it wouldn't get back to her, especially since from what we saw? He first suggested it the day after the previous tribal council. So day four, rather than waiting till they lost the immunity challenge. So that gave these people.

[00:41:46] Who were in the this alliance and social relationship with say gave them more time to mull it over and consider those relationships. And as he had correctly identified, say had a lot of influence. He was on the bottom. He even specifically told Mike Bloom that Justin and Cedric were loyal to her. So why did he think he could overcome that?

[00:42:11] I think the key word here is he made the optimal play. I don't think he made the optimal play. I think he made a logical play. I don't think he was playing badly. I think that a lot of people who get voted out very early on Survivor play totally illogically. And they're like terrible social players who don't get along with anybody. This was not Kevin's issue. Kevin, I think, is a smart Survivor player. I think he's someone who clearly knows the game.

[00:42:41] He talked about having watched, you know, I think every season leading up to this, he talked about how Yule was his idol coming into the game. And clearly, if you're if you're someone who is remembering Cook Islands one from such a long time ago, you're you're a big Survivor fan. It's I think that he played. I think that he was he was making logical decisions.

[00:43:02] I think that he was playing well based on, you know, what he thought maybe he could have done to the dynamics of this tribe. But I don't think it was optimal because I think optimal would have been him not going home. And you said that he was in this. He was four in a four person alliance. It's better to be four in a four person alliance than to be totally out of the alliance and off the island. And that would have been Mary was the one who was out of the alliance and she still is out of the alliance.

[00:43:29] But it would have I think the optimal move. Sometimes you have to, like, swallow the pill here and and just say it's not play the Sandra strategy. Anybody but me. Yes. Well, right. And I do think it might have been him next. Yeah. And that's true. But I do think that there's something to recognize as well. And he references in his exit press was how physically he was feeling because he couldn't sleep because of his shoulder injury and that he wasn't eating. He was throwing up all the time.

[00:43:58] And I and I do think that that can certainly affect someone's ability to think clearly and to really kind of work through the permutations of something in a fashion that seems to make the most sense. Whereas he might have been in, like, fight or flight kind of mode because he's not slept, not eaten. And oh, my gosh, I have to do something about this. And so I do think that there's a lot to be said about just the conditions that are surrounding you in that moment.

[00:44:24] And so I think, yeah, this was certainly he was trying to play the game, but it would have been better for him to just press pause for a minute and say, OK, I'm not in the best position right now. But things can always change. I just have to make it through one more vote and then see what happens. Yeah. Yeah. Start it. Yeah. Sorry. I'm sorry, David. No, I was just going to say, you know, Jordan, you said it wasn't logical. I'd say it was logical to an extent. You know, I understand you don't want to be a sitting duck waited to just get voted out next time.

[00:44:55] But you also brought up all those other contrary points. He didn't know for sure that they'd lose next. If they did, maybe something would have happened to cause a split. Maybe he would have gotten an advantage. Lord knows everybody else was. Yeah. There could be a journey. There could be another journey. You get an advantage. Maybe he gets the same safety without power. And then and then Justin Cedric and say have to go to tribal council alone. That that could that's something that that could happen on the show.

[00:45:25] Right. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yes, you always need to try to look ahead and set yourself up to win at the end. But as we often say here, first, you have to get there and trying to make a big move like this when he knew he wasn't anyone's number one and didn't have the best position in the tribe. Suboptimal. Yeah. And I do think Justin Justin had a line where he he said that Kevin comes off like he's playing for day 26, not for day six. I actually disagree with that.

[00:45:54] I don't think he was setting up an end game here. I think he was setting up. He was trying to set up a situation where he survives this tribe. And he was like, this is a sinking ship. If Mary goes, I'm next, which I think is still even though I disagree with it, I with what Kevin did here. I still think that is the most the most likely outcome.

[00:46:15] Um, but I, I think that in playing for round three, he got himself in trouble in round two. So I don't think I don't think he was like totally like overplaying. I don't think he was doing anything here that was like outlandishly bad. I just think that he's playing like Steven said, he's playing with other players who I think this is a very smart tribe.

[00:46:40] I think this is their bad challenges, but I think this is a very strategic tribe who is playing very well. And they're recognizing that someone like Kevin is a dangerous player because he's bringing up all of these ideas that don't necessarily help them. They help Kevin. Yeah. If you want to see anyone wants to see some people who are really doing poorly at rule to look at Australian survivor this season. Um, I mean, Kevin, you know, didn't do great, but yeah, those people make him look amazing in comparison.

[00:47:10] Um, the only thing that I really think could have changed the calculus here is if he or Mary had, if he or Mary had the, had, had the, uh, beware advantage or an idol, uh, and not say, then it's a totally different situation. Now you have an idol. You can use that to potentially bring someone in. You could, you could play that idol. There's so many things you can do, but with say having the idol, I really just think he, he was, uh, I mean, Mary was drawing dead and then based on his, um, the, the, based on the way that he played the round, I think he ended up.

[00:47:39] Being the one to, uh, to draw dead there. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, the third rule tells players to be flexible. Um, now Jordan, you talked about how he could have done differently on if he had been on another tribe, but of course, part of being flexible is being able to play on whatever tribe, whatever situation you're in. So how do you think Kevin did in this rule? So I think that due to his closeness with Mary, he wanted Mary to stay in the game, which makes sense.

[00:48:08] If you're close with the player and you trust them, you don't want them to get voted out. I think being, I think if he were more flexible, it would have resulted in him being okay with letting Mary go here. So I think that is maybe a little bit of inflexibility. I do think he's flexible in terms of like being willing to work with, with, with, with anybody. I think the five people on his tribe at certain points thought that Kevin was with them and Kevin like was sort of with everybody at a certain point.

[00:48:36] So I think he was socially flexible. I think that he played this round in flex inflexibly. And, and it's sort of the same reason why I think he, he schemed applied it too much. I think that being more flexible here would have been being willing to let Mary go. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a very fair point. And I do think that there's something to be said about maybe he was, he was being too flexible in a way too, because he was like, oh my gosh, I I'm supposed to be part of this, this group, but forget that.

[00:49:04] I have bigger plans and I have something else that I want to do as opposed to just not letting Mary go home because he was close to her. So there's like this weird, like, didn't want to lose her, but then it was also like, I'm, I'm going to just completely flip things around and, and try to do something. That's completely different than what everyone else is planning. Yeah. And, you know, obviously it's good to consider different options, you know, whether he should try to target, say, or try to flush her idle or do something else.

[00:49:32] And we already discussed the downsides of when and how he did that. But the other thing is it's possible to just kind of drop a question and see how people react rather than straight out going to them and saying, we need to do this. Yeah. Like he could have poked the bear a little bit. Yeah. And seeing like, Hey, what about say, what are your thoughts on that? He did do that early on.

[00:49:55] He did it early on and he got like Cedric didn't, didn't want to do it because he said Cedric says he doesn't want to do it because the idol, I think Cedric doesn't want to do it because he sees say as a close ally. Justin isn't into it. And I think he didn't take that information and use it to say, Oh, this is not going to work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're going to ask the question, you got to listen to the answer. Yes.

[00:50:15] So I think that his, and that's why, like, I think a lot of his instincts, I think that in that conversation, if he had taken that conversation and then said, I had maybe had a confessional saying, Oh, this is not, this is not what I want. But, uh, this is like the state of the tribe right now. I think that would have, I think the instinct to throw out that question was good, but then he didn't necessarily use it, uh, to his advantage. Right. All right. Well, the fourth rule tells players to not, or not to let their emotions control them.

[00:50:45] Uh, Jessica, what do you think, uh, how Kevin did for this one? Well, I think he actually did rather well in a certain component of this game, because this was someone who was, I'm going to go back to the injury, like struggling so much with his injury. And he had to keep that in check and not let anybody know that this is what was going on with him and really just kind of hide himself when he needed to go cry. So I do think that he didn't let that take over.

[00:51:12] I do think though, that it ended up affecting his game, as we've discussed, unfortunately for Kevin and, uh, future survivor players, please don't dislocate your shoulder because my gosh, I mean, the, the horrible things that he was going through, uh, and certainly didn't mean to do that, but, but yes, he's at least the third who's done it. I know, it seems like this is the thing that's, that's happening right now.

[00:51:35] But I also think that he, it's interesting because he was kind of a mixed bag here as well, because even with being provided this information and, and even me asking those questions you just referred to and being given answers, he still didn't like fully like formulate an idea in his head, taking that into consideration. Like how will other people feel about this and how is that going to affect my game with them?

[00:52:01] And so I, I think he, he really kind of put himself center and like front, which of course, in survivor, you are supposed to be like your biggest. Like advocate and you're, you're fighting for yourself, but in this particular situation, I think he shouldn't have been doing that. And so I think that that's where he ended up having some problems here because he didn't really take into consideration everyone else's feelings.

[00:52:28] He was just really thinking about Kevin at that point and saving Kevin. And so it's kind of a little bit of a mix that he was going through, I think with this particular rule. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think that, you know, to what you just said, Jessica, I think he wasn't necessarily looking at everything from every other player's perspective and saying, what do I think they're going to do in this situation?

[00:52:50] I don't think that's necessarily though, you know, letting your emotions, David, can you, and the, the, the rule is don't let your emotions like essentially control your game. Right. Right. Yeah. So I don't think he's guilty of breaking this rule. I think that plays more into the flexibility into the, to maybe the scheme too much. I, I think that he saw Mary as an ally that could help himself get further in the game. I don't think this was ever, Oh, we can't vote Mary out.

[00:53:19] Mary is my new best friend and I'm never going to betray Mary. And we're going to go to that. We're going to go to the end of this game together. I think he was, he was doing it as a way to try to get himself further in the game with someone who he trusted more than anyone else on the tribe did. So I, I don't think that he was a player who, who let his emotions get the best of him.

[00:53:36] And also to just go to what you said, he was clearly going through a tough time, but I, and I think it did affect how he was playing, but I don't think, I think he, it wasn't the emotions that were affecting how he was playing. I think it was how the other people on the tribe perceived him. He was the guy that got injured in the first challenge. He was the guy who ended up spending time away from the tribe.

[00:53:56] Um, so he was maybe emotional when he was going into the woods, as he said in his own exit interview, I don't think he was, he, he was letting those emotions though, control how he was playing the game. I think, I think that it was more of a, uh, of a strategic thing than an emotional thing. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I mean, you know, obviously there were different thoughts about, you know, from him, we had different thoughts than, than he did about the way he went around about it.

[00:54:23] But I think he believed he was making rational decisions. Although as we pointed out, they were not optimal decisions. Right. Um, and I'm sure I'll hear from Steven when he inevitably listens to this podcast. Um, might have to, someone might have to, you know, send him a clip. Um, uh, for the fifth rule, it reminds players they need to pretend to be nice and play the social game.

[00:54:52] Uh, Jordan, you mentioned him being socially flexible earlier. So how do you think he did for the social game overall? So I think when you're, when your tribe is referring to you as the golden retrievers of the tribe, uh, you have succeeded in being in everyone thinking you're nice and everyone. Uh, I don't, I don't think Kevin's pretending to be nice. I think Kevin is nice. Yes.

[00:55:13] Uh, and I think that he is, you know, he's someone who's willing to make moves in a game that are, that are, you know, going to potentially blindside somebody or going to, uh, you know, eliminate someone. But that's the game that survivor. Uh, I think that he excelled in, in, uh, in this role. I think that that was maybe his best quality is that he was so likable.

[00:55:35] Um, and if he had just used the likability, uh, as, as opposed to, you know, maybe, maybe getting a little bit of the big moveitis, I think it would have served him better. And I think that he definitely didn't break this rule. Yeah. I mean, he talked in his preseason interview about how he would be great socially and part, thanks to his time working for Abercrombie and Fitch. Oh, yes. Um, and so I do think there was some pretending there because he even talked about how he had to learn to put a certain face forward.

[00:56:02] But yeah, I think he was fine there and I'm sure all his tribe mates would want to hang out with him. And yeah, I don't think his social game was a reason that he was voted out, but it also wasn't a good enough reason to keep him. Sure. Because, you know, we've talked about this before, a good social game generally can't overcome other things to make you stay in the game this early. But a bad social game can get you voted out early.

[00:56:32] Yes. And it's interesting because it's the, it's the social game connected to the strategic part of your game. Right. And he didn't have anybody fighting for him. Like say had people fighting for her and people have commented on her social game. And we've talked about that already about what type of game she was playing, but she was able to combine the two where she was formulating these relationships with Cedric and so much. So, and it's, um, is it Josh? Yeah, Justin.

[00:57:01] I saw Jay in my head, um, with Justin as well. And, and formulate it. Listen, I have to, there are so many things in my brain, but I do think that there's a difference. Where he was certainly getting along with both Justin and Cedric. And he also did indicate in his exit press that they made it appears if he had a closer relationship to Justin than he actually did. So I think that that was a little misleading for us as viewers that that, that they were actually closer than they, than they really were. So it is, it is interesting.

[00:57:31] Like, yes, he was likable. Yes, he's a social person. People want to hang out with him and he's lovely and kind and has a great smile. But strategically, they were on a different playing field. And so it's, it is an interesting mix to see that he can be so great socially and appear great socially, but not in a strategic social component like we have with say where she's able to combine the two. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a difference.

[00:57:55] Like being social and being likable is different than a, is different than a social game. I think a social game is being able to then parlay those relationships. Exactly. And strategic alliances. And I think that Kevin was clearly trying to do that. He didn't do it as well as the other people on his tribe. But in terms of the rule of like, pretend to be nice, play the social game. I don't think he broke the rule. I don't think anyone voted out Kevin because we don't, we can't stand this guy. I think they all like them. Right. Yeah. I don't break the rule.

[00:58:24] He just, it was, he was fine with it. It just wasn't enough to save him. This is, this is again, like I said before, this is a tribe of, I think good players. I think this is a, as, as, as much as they lack in the challenges, they are doing very well in the actual survivor part of the game. That gets, that gets you deep into the, into the show. Yeah. All right. Well, the sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat.

[00:58:48] And I think that initially when we look at how Kevin had been doing, we wouldn't necessarily think of him that way. However, starting at the beginning of this episode, he made himself into a threat. And this was even something he thought about ahead of time and said in his pregame interview that he worried people would, would think he was a threat because he was, he would be too nice to everyone and potentially making alliances with everyone.

[00:59:13] And I noted it if you podcast that it was a smart thing to watch out for, but then he didn't, he didn't watch out for it. He literally had an alliance with everyone on the tribe. Now, sure. There's only four other people, but still, you know, and it wasn't exactly secret and they weren't not the tightest alliances, you know, more importantly. In his conversations with Justin and Cedric, it became pretty clear to them that he was planning further ahead than perhaps they expected.

[00:59:42] Now, it was really only one vote in particular, but it gave them enough pause that when say planted the seed with Justin about how much of a player Kevin was, Justin brought it up to Cedric and told us how Kevin is way ahead and could be a threat. Like you mentioned earlier, Jessica. Jessica. And he even said, if we don't get him now, he's going to get us.

[01:00:05] And it reminded me from your season, Jessica, when Michaela showed some plans to a couple people who were her allies and they suddenly decided they weren't her allies anymore. She's thinking ahead. How dare she? Yeah. You know, he didn't he didn't pull out rocks and shells and stuff, but he was, you know, he was thinking ahead and they were like, oh, if he's thinking ahead, he's a danger.

[01:00:32] Well, and I do think that that's a fascinating part of Survivor, more so as of late than I think it has been, where if someone is deciding to make a move early on, which we've heard new era, 26 days, everything moves faster. And so people want to make a big move before they necessarily need to. So it is very interesting to see someone want to make a move like this so early on, because we've heard also like pre-merge, like does it really matter that much?

[01:01:02] Like what big moves you might make? Because once you hit the merge, that's when you're playing with everybody. So it might not necessarily even mean anything to those who didn't see it happen. And so it is it is one of those situations where I do think that he failed to recognize all of these things that he recognized pregame and then came in and still did it anyway.

[01:01:25] And when you do have someone like, say, doing exactly what I think, Jordan, you might have suggested is dropping those little nuggets or maybe maybe what was you, David, were just just popping that idea out there. So you're not necessarily pointing the finger saying we should do something about this. It's just like, did you happen to notice that? Like, what do you think about that? And then you get other people thinking.

[01:01:47] So, yes, I think that she played that beautifully by pointing that out to her fellow players who then took it and ran with it. And unfortunately for Kevin, he just didn't know to keep that part of Kevin in the box enough. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that take. I think he did, you know, going into this episode, were they thinking of him as a massive threat? Probably not because he was someone who voted with them and was hurt.

[01:02:14] So I think that he sort of was like maybe it may be the wounded bird going into this. But then they start to see his mind working and they see that he's an intelligent guy who's coming up with his own plans and he's going after somebody that they trust. I think he did turn himself into a threat. And I think it's almost similar to what Thomas did. We talked about this at the beginning of the podcast where, you know, Shaheen was probably not thinking of Thomas as a threat. He's one of the California girls.

[01:02:36] But then he brings up this idea to sabotage Star, which for Shaheen, I mean, I do think that there maybe are some maybe some hints to the fact that Shaheen and Star are actually maybe working together. But we don't know that for sure. And maybe maybe he is on board to to get rid of Star there. But if he's willing to sabotage Star, what's to say that Thomas isn't willing to sabotage Shaheen down the road? So I think that when you start to show people how your mind works, it can make you a threat.

[01:03:05] It can also make you not a threat if you're someone who's not strategic. But I think that Kevin does have that that that strategic, you know, that that strategic mind to him. I think he is someone who knows how to play the game. I just again, like again, I think the perfect word is he didn't he he was playing. He was doing certain things well, but it just wasn't optimal here. And I think he did turn himself into a bigger threat that he needed to be.

[01:03:28] The interesting thing is, I think if Mary had never lost her vote here and she had the vote and she did everything that Kevin had done in this episode, she probably still gets voted out. But I think we would be saying about Mary, she was the next on the chopping block. She had to try to pull. She probably would have tried to get. She probably would have tried to get Cedric and Justin to vote out, say. And we would have been saying, you know, Mary, it didn't work, but good job at least trying. Good job. Not sitting in your hands and getting voted out. Right. Right.

[01:03:59] Now, you know, there is the question. Was Kevin really that much of a threat? So I want to follow his own extrapolation a little bit here. So let's say they get out. Say now the idol goes back into recirculation. The other two know Kevin and Mary are tight. This leaves a potential tie situation. If Cedric and Justin stay together, unless, of course, Kevin or Mary find the re-hidden idol. Neither Justin nor Cedric would want a face off in a tie situation.

[01:04:27] And they probably figure internally the other might flip to make sure we avoid a tie. And so even if they're the ones who flip. So let's say Justin's thinking, well, I don't want Cedric flipping. So I would flip in that situation. Well, then you're going into the next one with three and you're at a two one disadvantage. Kevin and Mary on the other side. Yeah. Presuming there's no swap. I do think there would be a swap. One hundred percent.

[01:04:57] Yeah. No, it's just a big coincidence that any time a tribe has gotten down to three in the new era, there's been a swap. But the point is crazy. Yeah. The point is, there are a lot of situations where following Kevin's plan becomes a threat to their own game. Yes.

[01:05:18] And that's something that we've actually talked a lot about on this podcast as well, is you can become a threat to a particular person because of something that you say or do. So then that makes you a target to that person. And so you have to be very mindful of all of those potential outcomes and issues like this might sound like a great plan for Kevin, but it's only a great plan for Kevin for this particular vote.

[01:05:44] It's not a great plan for everybody when you work through all of the potential outcomes that can come with these dwindling small numbers because they're only having tribes of six. I can't stand it. I'm done with it. Please go back to 10. I agree about that. Let us vote. Let us vote on the two tribes of 10. Yes, please. But this is why, like, and to your point, David, about Kevin and Mary then becoming the powerful duo who could get down to the final three of this tribe.

[01:06:12] This is why Say was never getting voted out here. I think it was a total red herring the whole time. It never made any sense for Justin or Cedric to let a situation occur where you have Mary and Kevin both in the game. So Say was never going to go. And there was there was the response to you on Twitter. If Cedric hadn't told Say to play her idol was Say going there. No, it would. I think it would have either been Kevin if he continued to make some of the mistakes we've talked about a lot on this podcast. Or if he didn't do that, it would have been it would have been Mary.

[01:06:41] I think it's a pretty it's like a pretty like shut. You're a lawyer. What's that? What's that? Jessica, what's the what's the open and shut case? That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Yeah. Now, of course, there is one other issue here, and that's that Kevin was just plain showing himself to be untrustworthy. The other three felt that he had a he was part of a four person alliance and he was the first one to try to break it.

[01:07:07] You know, so Say was undoubtedly alluding to this when she was talking in tribal council about not wanting to keep someone you don't trust, you know, and he's sitting there nodding his head along, not realizing she's sending the message to you, Kevin. Yeah. But yeah, he realized that I'm always someone who has who has advocated for flipping on an alliance when you're on the bottom because you don't want to get to the point where now you're it's only your alliance left. And then who's going to go?

[01:07:37] It's probably going to be you. But to Jessica's point, there's really no wiggle room with these with these little tribes. If he had done this, if he had made the merge, maybe was maybe if let's say this this tribe had had one more challenges and you have this group going to the merge. Kevin should have no desire to work with Justin Cedric and Say going forward. They don't have his best interest in mind, but there was no one else to go to. Mary didn't even have a vote like that was the only other person.

[01:08:03] So I really like it was going for say there. It would have been the same thing had he got tried to go for Cedric or Justin. It just it was such a bad situation that he was in, partly due to decisions he made. But I also think partly just due to, you know, unfortunate game situations of being on the tribe that was losing challenges, getting injured, going on the journey. I think there's so many things that were working against him that his only out here was to stay the course and stick to the plan and go go for Mary.

[01:08:33] Yeah. All right. Well, the seventh rule covers idols advantages and game mechanics. Kevin obviously knew about Say's idol, and that was one of the main reasons he wanted to take her out now. But as we've discussed, he did not handle it in the best way. If he really just wanted to get rid of the idol itself, he could have come up with a plan to indicate to say that maybe Mary had gotten an advantage on the journey and it would be a good idea for Say to play the idol just in case.

[01:09:01] You know, it's even possible the other two guys would have gotten on board with that because it would have kept Say but gotten rid of the idol. Now, that said, I think the other two guys considered it our idol a bit. But, you know, Say already figured Mary could be lying about the journey. So that was a good in for him. If they had done this, he would have at least accomplished the goal of getting rid of the idol and giving himself a better chance.

[01:09:31] I don't know that it would have mattered that much, but at least he would have had a chance. I'm curious, too, about this idol discussion that we didn't really see much of actually in between parties, but it was something that Kevin talked about a lot. How Cedric and Justin were talking about it being our idol so much and that they really, truly believed it was their like group idol. And Kevin was like, no, don't you want your own idol? Like, that's what you should want.

[01:10:00] And that I think we have to credit back to say that she was making Cedric and Justin feel like it really was a group idol. And maybe she really did mean that it was. And that's the approach they were going to take. But also by Kevin, if Kevin was spending time telling Cedric and Justin, that's not your idol. And, you know, you should really want your own idol. Well, then you're calling into question like, well, wait a second. You're like, wait.

[01:10:25] So you're telling me then if you find an idol and we're working together, then that's not going to be something you'll use for me either. Like you're showing your hands to the people that you're supposed to be playing this game with. And so if they realize you're unwilling to accept that that could be a group idol. Well, later on, if you find the idol when it comes back into play, that's not going to be my idol with you. So I think that that definitely worked again or probably worked against him as well. Yes. Say that. I mean, are we saying that he broke the rule?

[01:10:55] I mean, he I don't even think he could have gotten that idol. Right. Because he was even at camp when they found. No, I don't even know. Yeah, he wanted it back in circulation. And so he was telling them, oh, if you if we make or play it, it comes back in circulation. And find it. Yeah. And again, I think I just think it's the same result, though. It's like Mary still probably goes. Right. And then. Or. Yeah.

[01:11:20] So I don't really think that he necessarily he necessarily could have done much in that in that capacity either. I think that the person who who flushed the idol was essentially Cedric. And I think it was unintentional. Yeah. I still think Cedric is in the best position on this tribe, because I think if it came if it does come down to Justin Cedric and say and there's no swap. I feel like Cedric is already telling us that that say is like a daughter to him. I think that we're showing it's showing that he's very close with Justin.

[01:11:50] I do think that maybe even though Cy and Justin do clearly trust each other. And Justin has said that we don't really have as much of say is relationship with Justin as we do with her relationship with Cedric. Yeah, we have Cedric's relationship with Justin. And I feel like he is the kingmaker in that spot. If we get down to like the the Ricard Ricard Shannon, Jeannie Machini from from season 41. I'm hoping we don't get to that point. I'm rooting for a swap here on this season. I would like to see. I would like to see.

[01:12:18] And I think Mary, you know, Mary's in a position here where she really has no power. She's in a worse position now than than Kevin was this week. If this tribe is able to win and then they swap and they're all able to make it, I would like to see how all four of these players are able to maneuver in the in the post merge game. If they win, I don't think there'll be a swap. I think the only way there's a swap is if they lose. Yeah, I'll be rooting for it.

[01:12:42] And I think that it could be why Blink-Loss, if this tribe does go to go to tribal, could be, you know, kind of more more or maybe maybe less to talk about next week. Unless there's an idol in circulation. If Mary finds that idol now, it's a very, very interesting. Yes. And I don't know who goes. I just think I think it could be any. I just don't think it's gonna be Cedric. It could be Justin could be say Mary is definitely playing that thing if she finds it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right.

[01:13:10] Well, we can move to Appendix A, which is about the players keeping their end goals in mind when voting. And we talk about voting out the weak than the strong and the weak than the strong. Now, Kevin had two problems here. First, let's address challenges. We know Kevin hurt his shoulder in the first challenge, and it was significantly worse than we saw. We've already talked about that. And, you know, he even mentioned it popping again in the challenge this time. He tried to put on a brave face to his tribe, but they had to notice.

[01:13:39] I mean, you're not throwing up ibuprofen and nobody notices. Yeah. You know, I thought it was particularly amusing when he said at tribal council, tribe disunity reflects in the challenges. But if you look at the common denominator in both failed challenges, it was him. It wasn't tribe disunity. It was him.

[01:14:02] And so even taking into account that Cedric seemed to take most of the blame this time. Kevin's shoulder certainly played a role. You're holding a pole and trying to balance. And even as much as Cedric was not doing a great job, you know, there's no way that didn't affect that outcome. Yeah, it's really unfortunate, too, because I think that he was meant to be the muscle of that tribe.

[01:14:29] I mean, clearly the other tribes and I agreed with even though it was wrong. I agreed with Kevin's logic in his in his pregame press that he was like, OK, between between Kyle, David and Joe, one of these guys is going to be on my tribe. He ends up being sort of the the like athletic athletic guy on his tribe. And that all goes away when you unfortunately hurt your shoulder. And that's like that's that's not bad gameplay. That's just it's bad luck.

[01:14:58] I felt terrible for him as someone who who coaches and who plays sports. Like my least favorite thing is when I'm coaching and one of the kids has an injury and then they can't play the rest of the season or they can't play games. It's horrible. And it affects even if you even when you come back, it affects how you play. Do you vote them off the team? Usually usually I'll make them a week. I'm voting out the week. Get out.

[01:15:20] If they if they if it's that bad of an injury and they want to keep coming to practice, I'll make them some sort of like honorary captain or something to try to make them feel better about themselves. Yes. Well, they weren't going to do that for Kevin. No, survivors. Survivors are brutal world. It's not the world of scholastic athletics. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Now, there is an even more important aspect of this appendix, as I noted in a newly added portion that I discussed in last week's RHAP newsletter.

[01:15:48] The confessional sometimes being weak. Isn't a function of challenges, but rather of alliances. It's true that by winning the immunity challenges, your tribe stays strong and you stay away from tribal council. But when there is a choice of voting to keep someone who is strong and challenges but isn't aligned with you or someone who is weaker and challenges but will be a long term tight ally. Go with the ally. Oh, yeah. That should always be your top concern. Yeah.

[01:16:15] And Kevin didn't even have the part about being strong and challenges going for him at this point. So when especially Cedric and Justin were considering what to do, they realized that keeping Say their ally was better than keeping Kevin who they worried about.

[01:16:33] So it again ties into Say's tribal council statements about trusting the people she's working with, because we saw that Say has supported and been loyal to Cedric to the point that he trusts her and is returning the favor. And even Kevin told Mike Bloom that Justin and Cedric were so loyal to her. Mm hmm. Yeah, I think all of that is spot on right there. Well, then, Jessica, let's get into something you posted on Blue Sky that I said we didn't.

[01:17:04] I knew this was going to come up. You wondered. I said it would. You wondered if the flip against Kevin was unnecessary because it saved a person who they were not playing the game with, voted out a person they were playing the game with and saved a person no one feels they can totally trust. Now, correct me if I misinterpreted, but I figured you were talking about the decision between Mary and Kevin. Is that correct?

[01:17:30] No, actually, I was talking about them deciding not to flip on Say, but I will add this because this was not something that I knew until after I posted that is the relationship between Justin and Kevin was not as close as it was. Right.

[01:17:49] And so I was thinking to myself, well, if he's this close with Justin, like I was surprised that Justin was really going out on a limb so much for say because it appeared as if he had a closer relationship with Kevin. But we've come to learn that that is not true. So I would I would amend what I posted because I was like, well, wait a second. Now I'm curious. But again, this is what happens with editing. Right.

[01:18:15] And this is why we have to do the deep dives that we do and figure out all of the things that we didn't necessarily see during the episode. Secret scenes, all of the things that you mentioned, like we have to work through all of the interviews because now we've come to learn that there were a lot of things happening that we didn't necessarily see. And that would be inclusive of, yeah, that relationship really not meaning as much as the show made it appear as if it did. Right. Yeah.

[01:18:40] I really love the decision for Justin for Justin and Cedric, especially because you leave. I mean, you have you have I mean, getting where to say like that's totally off the table for me from that from their perspective, because I think she's as close of an ally to them as they are to each other. But you leave in Mary, who does not get along with say seemingly based on what we've seen in tribal council.

[01:19:01] I think that Kevin is someone like what if, you know, Kevin has like this, this, you know, very friendly golden retriever persona. What if he is able to like weasel himself in into their alliance for real? Like he they were making him maybe think that he was part of the alliance, but he really wasn't clearly. Right. I think that you you then have now two people on your tribe. One of them is working with you. One of them is not working with you and they don't like each other. Like, where is Mary going to go?

[01:19:30] I think there is maybe a little bit more room for Kevin to maneuver. I still think Kevin would have been screwed if this if this tribe went to tribal again, which is why I think it's not like a horrible move. But he did. It might just change, change, change the order like that. But I do think for Justin and Cedric, this was an especially good decision for say, I mean, you have Kevin who is targeting her. So like why if you're say you also want Kevin out of the game, I think it makes a lot of sense. Sure. Yeah.

[01:19:56] I mean, I think the the issue really boiled down to I just I think it's editing. I really do think it's editing because I think that the the hope was we're going to present say as someone who is a little more bossy and telling people what to do as opposed to no, it really was like Cedric and and Justin were like, yeah, she's she's with us and we're with her. And like, this is a solid this is a solid three.

[01:20:22] And so I do really think that it boils down to how they presented those relationships to us. And so when it was that one particular scene with with Justin, when he was the one that was like, I think we should vote out Kevin. I was like, where did that come from? You know, it was like like I would have been more based upon the edit inclined to think that Justin would have given that a little more pause and be like, well, you know, but Kevin, Kevin and I are close and Kevin and I are. But that wasn't at all what the response was and what the reaction was.

[01:20:51] So I do think that in this particular dynamic and situation, it was 100 percent the best thing for Cedric and Justin to do say, of course. I mean, she's she's in the power position right now, so it would be best for her to get someone out that's becoming a threat to her directly. And I do think but now we have this extra element where those three have someone to vote out. So it doesn't even matter if they lose the next tribal council, because those three, unless she finds an idol and vote out Mary.

[01:21:20] So they have an additional option available to them and they don't have to work through all of these. Well, what about this? And maybe we can do that. And then it could be a tie and all of these other permutations. So it makes the next vote potentially straightforward for them if Mary doesn't have a chance to find the idol. For entertainment purposes, I want Mary to find the idol. Well, I'm not I'm not rooting. And the thing is, I really like this alliance of Justin Cedric and say I'm just kind of very I'm very interested to see what's going to happen.

[01:21:48] And that's why I really love from Justin and Cedric's perspective, getting rid of Kevin and leaving Mary and say in the game, let's say Mary does find an idol. I could see Mary going to Justin and Cedric and saying, let's vote out say, which is not what they want to happen. Like they don't want to vote out say, but you at least have the person with the idol isn't coming after one of them. They're going after say with Kevin. I don't know. I mean, I mean, it probably would have been say as well. So maybe it's not that much of a difference.

[01:22:17] But say it's going to be very interesting because say in Cedric, Cedric and say have this like father daughter thing that Cedric was talking about. Maybe if Mary finds the idol, maybe they turn the tables on Justin. Like that's why I think that Cedric is the only one who's basically guaranteed safe. And that's going to come off very badly if he's the next one voted out. Things happen on Survivor. I just feel like he's he's in such a good spot. Yeah. So Jordan said that, not me. So that means it can still happen. I just want everybody to know that.

[01:22:47] All right. Well, it is about time to wrap things up. So Jordan, what are your final thoughts on Kevin? I think that Kevin is someone who had a lot of potential. I think he had the potential to be someone who could go far into the game and win. I think that he got placed on a tribe where it made it very difficult, especially based on his injury to start the game. I do think that he overplayed this round. I think he would have not been the person voted out and he would have maybe been the next one voted out.

[01:23:17] But I don't think it would have been him. I think he put himself in a position to get voted out here. So I love when players are strategizing. I love when players are thinking about the game, but sometimes turning the tables and changing the status quo isn't your best move if you're not going to be the person voted out. So I think he's someone who knows the game had potential is very likable on a different tribe. He might be, you know, he might be in one of the better positions to win the game going forward. You never know. But the Vula tribe is not the tribe for him.

[01:23:46] And I think that he. The relationships that were made that he was not a part of and then also his own actions both contributed to him being the second person voted out. Excellent, Jordan. I will say as far as our friend Kevin is concerned, sometimes the best laid plans don't ever work out the way that you hope they do. And unfortunately, that's what I think we saw happen with Kevin.

[01:24:10] He came into this idea of playing survivor with a very big, grandiose plan about creating the family tree and branches off of that tree and how he was going to formulate these relationships with each person. So he would be the center of what he had created. And then he started playing the game and he got injured almost immediately.

[01:24:32] And then he got sent on a journey almost immediately and spent so much time away from his tribe almost immediately when that entire tribe or most of that tribe was forming bonds and creating an alliance. And then he found himself tucked into the end place on that alliance, which didn't necessarily bode well for his position in that tribe. I think all of these components presented to him unexpected survivor issues.

[01:25:00] And this just is a perfect example of what can happen to you when you play this game. Things happen. Injuries happen. People happen. Idols happen. And Say had an idol as well. So you have to prepare for all of these things and you have to play the game in response to what is happening around you. And unfortunately, I just feel like Kevin didn't have the ability to do that.

[01:25:22] He still wanted to push down that gas pedal and move forward and try to catch up to say when he didn't need to and really put himself in a bad situation when he should have just sat back, let his injury feel a little better. And try to just get to the next tribal council. David and I say it all the time. You have to play this game to win. And you 100% have to. But you also have to recognize that you can only win if you get to the end. And even if you think you're going to be going home next, that's fine.

[01:25:50] If you go home now, you don't even have a chance to fight next. Right. So just like sit back and maybe something will happen that will allow you to stay in the game past that next vote because so many things are thrown at you. And Kevin, you should have learned so many things can be thrown at you. Anything could have happened if you had made it past this vote before getting to the next tribal council. So unfortunately, we did miss seeing what I think Kevin was certainly able to bring to the table.

[01:26:18] But he wasn't able to based upon all of the circumstances and things thrown at him. So unfortunately for Kevin, he was gone. Yeah. As we've discussed, some of what Kevin was thinking made sense and it's good to think ahead. However, it's not always good to tell other people that you're thinking ahead like that. He even told us that if say we're gone, he would be in the power position on the tribe.

[01:26:43] Yet he apparently didn't think the other guys would realize that and figured they just let him waltz into that position. Furthermore, he knew say was in an influential position and he was on the bottom, but thought that when he told those who he knew were his close, her close allies that he wanted to blindside her, they would just go along with it. And he made it worse by giving them so much time to think about it.

[01:27:09] It also didn't help that his shoulder injury likely made the others consider him to be a possible challenge liability, or at least they had no reason to keep him for challenge power because he helped lose both times. But even with that, he would have been fine if only he'd have gone along with the plan. Sometimes it can be hard to sit back and let things happen in the game. But sometimes that's exactly what you need to do. Stephanie didn't need to do it last week.

[01:27:39] She needed to do the opposite. Kevin needed to do it this week. I can understand he didn't want to make himself a sitting duck. And trying to avoid that situation is understandable. You should always try to set yourself up to be in the position to win at the end. But like you just said, Jessica, first you have to get there. And trying to make a big move like this when he knew he wasn't anyone's number one, he didn't have the best position on the tribe.

[01:28:05] And he was even more doomed from the start than just sitting back and letting Mary go. He tried to get himself out of the frying pan, but ended up jumping into the fire, which Jeff then snuffed out. And that is why Kevin lost. Here we are. It's fun watching you do that in real time. It is very entertaining, right? I love it. All right.

[01:28:34] Well, before we get to our predictions for next episode, I do want to let everyone know next week we will be running a couple days later than usual. Because as I mentioned last week, my son is getting married. So look for the episode. So I'm guessing Monday night or Tuesday morning, still have plenty of time to watch it before the next episode of Survivor. But, you know, just know that it's coming late. So, you know, that way you won't be wondering, where is it? Where is it?

[01:29:04] Yeah. No weekend listening for you. I apologize. Yes. I also want to remind everyone that the rules we just discussed are available in poster form and T-shirt form and checklist form on a T-shirt. Or you can hang it on a wall and pretend it's a poster. And again, go to Rob has a website dot com slash YX lost feed for all of those.

[01:29:33] Jessica, where can people find us? Well, I am at Jessica Lewis 89 on both Blue Sky and Twitter. And I am also at Jessica Lewis 6789 on Instagram. My social media has fallen apart a little bit. I just haven't been getting on social media very much as of late. However, David Bloomberg makes up for both of us because David Bloomberg is all over social media.

[01:30:01] And I know he has a link tree to provide all of the places you can find him. And Jordan Kalish, I don't know if you have a link tree, but I know that you are also on. Well, you should consider this because you should do the link tree because it's very useful. And I know that you have a link tree. It's very useful for someone like David Bloomberg. And I know that Jordan, you have a very big presence as well on social media. So if you would like to tell them how they can find you and David can show them the link tree and give them a little lesson about how they can find him. Sure.

[01:30:30] Well, you could find me at Jordan Kalish on Blue Sky or Twitter or Instagram. And yeah, the link tree would be a useful thing to bring all of the links into one link. That's what a link tree is. It's like when Kevin tried to create the family tree. He was trying to consolidate everybody into one little section. Good idea in theory. So yeah, I think I should be doing that. You could find me.

[01:30:56] And then, of course, you could listen after the exit interview on RHAP every week. You could listen to this week in Survivor History. And we will be talking about Survivor trivia. And I will sometimes make mathematical errors. I will sometimes forget what season I'm asking a question about. But it's always a good time. And if you're a patron of RHAP, you get to apply to compete against Rob on this week in Survivor History. So that's where you can find me. And then also, if you're someone who, and I'm wearing right now the Survivor Brooklyn South hat,

[01:31:26] I am the host of Survivor Brooklyn South, which is a one-day Survivor game in Brooklyn. And if you are in the New York area or willing to travel to the New York area to play a fan-made game of Survivor, that's a lot of fun. We are looking for applicants to check out Survivor Brooklyn South on Facebook. We have a Facebook page. And if you need to reach out to find it, I will help you. All right. Excellent. Well, as Jessica mentioned, I do have the Linktree, which is at Linktree slash David Bloomberg.

[01:31:53] Or you can find me directly on Blue Sky as at David Bloomberg. Everyone should be on Blue Sky. Nobody should be on those other places. And by those other places, the text-based other places. Because the video other places, I am, of course, on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram. Where's your true social? I don't see it. Yeah. Somehow that's not on there. I don't know. The parlor. Yeah.

[01:32:23] But for YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram, I'm at David Bloomberg TV. Right now, I post at least four usually, sometimes more. There were a couple days last week I posted five and six because I just had so many things I had to push out into the universe.

[01:32:40] They're a mix of U.S. Survivor, of course, Australian Survivor, including many YBlink lost videos, which so far have mostly been me yelling at dumb Australian Survivor players who have massively overplayed. Like, people are commenting. Like, it's so funny to see you getting so upset at these people. So, and these are just like two and a half minute versions. So, I have to condense all my anger at them into that amount of time.

[01:33:09] There's the Traders U.S., which just ended, but I still, of course, have videos to share. Deal or no deal island extracted. Amazing race. You know, I'm aiming for 50,000 subscribers on YouTube soon. So, if you're not already subscribed. How many do you have? 230. No, I'm just kidding. I have, like, that would be really funny. That's super funny. I haven't checked recently.

[01:33:37] I'm, I think, 1,000, 2,000 away. Oh, you're right. You'll be there. So, I was on a real big upward swing, but then. But then people started watching the videos. I think that's what happened. People started seeing the mini Y-blank losts, which I hadn't been doing for a while. I had just been doing the clips. And because they're not shorts, they're actual videos.

[01:34:04] I think some of the people who were just expecting the YouTube shorts were. I have a suggestion for you. What is that? If you want to get more followers, you should try to make the. David that you posted as, like, AI, like, talk to people. Yes. Yes. That shirtless, David. I think people might come and watch. What we've learned is everyone wants to see David shirtless and in shorts. Yes.

[01:34:34] Yes. I think it's worth a shot. See what happens. Yeah. So, anyway, yes. Come join me there. I have also been co-hosting the Tradar podcast for the Traders US. You can find that as, you know, T-R-A-I-D-A-R, wherever you get podcasts. And it's on video form on YouTube as well.

[01:34:56] Of course, we will be recording our finale and reunion podcasts for that very shortly. So, aside from that, it is time for predictions. Does anyone but me want to go first? Sure. I think that means, does anyone but me?

[01:35:20] I, yeah, I, I am, I don't love, I think there's a chance. I don't love the foolish, foolish chances of winning the next challenge. I think if they, if they go to Tribal Council and Mary doesn't have the idol, it will be Mary. I just don't see how she's going to get out of that spot. If she does have the idol, I think it's going to be, I think it would be Say. Because I think Mary would vote for Say.

[01:35:45] And then Cedric and Justin, Cedric or Justin, do they, do they really want to force a tie to save Say? I feel like Mary then just has the power if she has the idol, which is again, why the small tribes are annoying. But if Bula doesn't go, I, I, I have a hard time seeing Siba going to Tribal Council. I don't think that's going to happen. I think that based on what we've seen, it looks like it would be charity, but we just don't have enough information.

[01:36:14] If, if Loggi goes to Tribal, I'm going to make a big claim here. I don't think it's going to be Star. I, I think that we, they laid down some seeds here where Shaheen is a little bit sus on Thomas. Now I picked a Thomas as someone I've really enjoyed on the show. I hope I'm wrong. If they go to Tribal, I would not be surprised if he was the one to go out. Well, you just took all the predictions, Jordan. Well, listen, and I can blame myself.

[01:36:41] You could have your own predictions that you might have difficult, totally different, different opinions. No, that's who me or Jessica. Cause you, like I said, you took mine. Um, because yeah, I, you know, I was going to say the same thing. Siva isn't going to lose. Uh, we've seen a lot of setup for a Loggi loss that they are suggesting leads to star being voted out. But yeah, I, I think Loggi is going to lose and I think they're going to go after Thomas

[01:37:09] instead, whether it's because star gets the idol together or simply because of his sneakiness. Um, but one way or another, you know, Jessica, I mentioned earlier, we'd be talking about, uh, I know. And Jessica, you might, you might have to get those cold brews at Ponderosa potentially. I, I think this is, it's, it's not like, it's not like, Oh, if, if, uh, Loggi goes, it's going to be Thomas. I'm like, I just think, and it's more based on the edit. I think he's playing very, I think he's playing well.

[01:37:38] And I think that he is right now in a good spot. I just think, why are they showing that scene? Some, sometimes it is reading the edit. Uh, and I, that did make me a little bit worried if Thomas had given that, had said, had given that plan and we didn't hear Shaheen say, Oh, I'm sus on Thomas. I'd say, okay, that's something that might happen. And then we would be saying, Oh, you know, stars, stars going to be sabotaged and she's going to go home. But the fact that they showed it, they're showing it for a reason. Yes, exactly.

[01:38:02] Oh, and I don't disagree, but I also think that there is the, the Joe Eva situation as well. Right. Because you have star is the one who's wanting to go after Eva. And so where did, where did Joe's loyalties lie? Like, where is he in that? No, but I mean like with the rest of the crew, like, is he Shaheen or is he going to be with Thomas? Cause they're all in the golden girls Alliance, right? They're the most interesting tribe. California girls.

[01:38:32] They're not California girls. Yeah. Yeah. The Cal, I think the California girls thing is, I think they all like each other. Is it really an Alliance that's going to vote together? I, I, I don't know if they do. It's just, it's just going to be star not getting the idol and them all piling on star. I don't necessarily think that's going to, that's going to happen. I think that there are so many different ways that that vote could go.

[01:38:55] I could literally see with the exception of Joe, anybody probably, well, and Shaheen. I don't think Joe or Shaheen are going anywhere anytime soon. I could see it being any of the other four players. And I want to see what I want to see them go to tribal. Not, not that I have anything against the tribe. I just want to see what happens. I want to watch. I want to see them more. Yeah. I mean, I think the California girls were a good setup of an Alliance. If they went to tribal council first. Sure.

[01:39:23] You know, they had those people, so they knew they wouldn't be going, but we already saw like Thomas saying, well, I want to bring in Bianca and Joe was sitting there going, well, what about Eva? So I think that, uh, yeah, I think that it'll be Thomas. I don't think it's going to be Thomas. I really don't. I hope I'm wrong. I hope, I hope. Yeah. I just feel like I don't want to lose Thomas either. And I just feel like there, you know what? There's a possibility that maybe they showed that scene because it, it has something,

[01:39:53] you know, later on in the game, you know, because unfortunately now, because I've been doing this for as long as I have, I, I tend to watch the show a little bit differently and pay attention to things like you're doing as well. Jordan. We're like, why would they show us that if it didn't necessarily matter? And so I am very curious to see what Thomas's journey is going to look like. And I think it's going to be longer than just the next tribal council.

[01:40:17] So I, I want to go out and just hope I, I do think Vula is going to lose again. I just don't, I don't see how it doesn't happen because they are so down and out. And I also feel like they've kind of accepted their fate. Like we are just going to be the losing tribe, right? Like this is just going to be what happens. And unfortunately I think they're all just going to be, well, we can just run out Mary. So that's fine, but I want to go with the Jordan Kalish dream.

[01:40:43] And I want to see Mary find an idol just to throw a wrench in the works and make them have to make a decision and perhaps decide that say is going to be too much of a threat to them down the road and they vote her out. But that's what I want to see happen just because it's much more fascinating and interesting when someone finds an idol that everyone just assumes is going to be the next vote out. And what I also love about Mary, and I did not post this, but I did take pictures of

[01:41:10] her both when the first tribal council, when she was saying like, what the F and was like completely stunned. And then in the next tribal council, when she had that same, like look on her face, like what is going on? And she, and this is what I see for, for Mary. I'm so sorry. My family's madly texting me. I don't know what's going on. So my phone is binging and bonging and making a lot of noise.

[01:41:36] But I, I feel like Mary is one of those players who ends up just, she's going to continue to be playing the game, even though she's not playing the game. Like one of those, those survivors that just ends up sticking around because things just kind of work in her favor. Or there's like, all of a sudden there's a swap at the perfect time. And then she ends up on the right tribe and everybody forgets about Mary. Um, but I feel like that's, what's going to end up happening with Mary is that she's just

[01:42:01] going to end up being that player that no one is necessarily playing the game with, but she continues to get by because happenstance. That's like a, like a Venus. Like that, that happened, uh, with Venus a couple of seasons ago. And it's funny. You say that's the Jordan Kayla stream. Everything that I'm, that I'm saying, I want to see that I'm rooting for results in something that I'm not rooting for. Right. Then we're losing one of these other three, three characters. I love that alliance.

[01:42:28] If, if, uh, I, if I, I told you, I just, I just said, I want Loggie to go to tribal council. I don't want any of the Loggies to get voted out, but I want to see them get a tribal and one of them will get voted out. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's, uh, that's where the, uh, the, the dynamic casting comes in where even if you lose something you like now, there's, there's still a bunch of people that are fucked a lot. Yeah. All right. Well, as we wrap up, I want to encourage people to check out the RHAP patron program at Rob has a website.com slash patron and get access to all the special podcasts that

[01:42:57] are put out just for patrons plus Facebook groups and discord. And as Jordan mentioned, you can come on to this weekend survivor history and face off against Rob. Um, and of course you also support shows like ours and everything on the network by becoming a patron at Rob has a website.com slash patron. Also make sure you're subscribed to all the RHAP survivor podcasts by going to we know survivor.com. You can see all the podcasts there and select your podcast service of choice.

[01:43:28] And so there's all this great content like this weekend survivor history, which is part of the interview podcast. Uh, there's the know-it-alls, the BNB survivor international there. Uh, Rob's doing interviews with old school survivors, uh, as well as, uh, the regular recaps. So yeah, there's a, there's a lot going on at, uh, we know survivor.com. I love, I love the new, I mean, I've only listened to the T-bird one so far because the, uh, the, the, uh, this week's I has, I believe has not come out yet.

[01:43:57] Uh, I love that Rob is doing that. I love that. I love hearing from the, the old school players. Uh, Jessica, you are, I guess at this point considered an old school player, even though I would consider you more of like a late, late, late old school, I guess, because you're pre new era. Yeah. But middle school to me, middle school was always like, like Fiji or like Guatemala, like one of these seasons. It's funny to think of, uh, millennials versus Gen X now as like an older season, but I guess it is.

[01:44:24] I know it's, it is crazy to think about how long it actually was. Like it was in 2016. I'm like, that's nuts, but incredible opportunity that I, that I had. A chance of a lifetime, just all of these great things. But I am through and through an old school survivor fan. I, I prefer old school survivor. Borneo is like the ultimate as far as I'm concerned, because it was so raw. It was so new. And there wasn't all of these rules and things.

[01:44:52] It was like the players were creating survivor without rules, no rules on survivor. Get rid of any rule or podcast with the rule. No more rules, baby. I just love it. When people who talk about rules, let's get rid of the people who talk about them. We can still talk about them, but I just want people to be able to play. Like, let's let the players play. And that's the part that I, I feel is, is getting lost in some of these new era ideas and, and

[01:45:23] beware advantages and all of these extra components. Like people will play this game. And if you take 18 players or 20 players and you put them on an Island, it is going to turn into Lord of the flies. It will, you don't need to help it. Just let it be, put them out there, make them compete against each other and some challenges, but let them play this game. And so for me, I do love old school survivor. I love that. I had a chance to go out there and play it.

[01:45:50] And I think it'll be really fantastic despite all of the advantages and rules that have been added. It's still going to, it's still awesome to watch. I still love it, but I do miss that. Just that just rawness that used to exist. Yeah. Yeah. For my money, you don't even need to hide an idol on the, on this, on this bullet drive. I know I said, I wanted to see it happen because again, I'm interested in, I'm interested in the dynamics. I'm interested in what would happen, but from a game design perspective, why does an idol

[01:46:18] have to be placed in a premerge, a tiny premerge tribe when one is played? I think you have Justin Cedric inside and say who have made this very close alliance to their credit and they've taken control of the tribe. Why should an outside game mechanic now mess with the work that they've done? I don't think it necessarily should. I don't know. Yeah. From a game design perspective, you are correct. From a show entertainment. Yeah. From a production perspective. I get it. I get it.

[01:46:47] Like we have an hour and a half to fill and everybody's going to know Mary's going. That's not double tribal episode. That's yeah, that's right. So, all right. I'm sorry. I went off on a tangent there, David. Would you like me to thank people at this point? Yes, please. All right. Excellent. We would love to thank Scott and Jess and Doug from RHAP and the incredible team that they have behind them with all of the editing that you do not only for the Wild Blank Gloss podcast, but also all of the editing for RHAP, especially We Know Survivor.

[01:47:16] And this weekend Survivor, of course, is one of those incredible things that you get to watch. You should do as David indicated, join, watch all of the content. It's really incredible. There's so much out there to take in. And as much as I say that we shouldn't have rules, I do want to follow the rules. And I do think you should follow the rules and why blank lost and all of that. So if you want to apply, this is how you learn how to play this game. And you definitely should watch all of the content to prepare yourself for that.

[01:47:45] So thank you to everyone for the work to do there. Thank you to Will from America for the theme song that was created for this particular podcast. And Jordan, thank you so much for joining us. It's nice to have you in this space. It's been a long time since we got to chat. So this is lovely. And we didn't have any math that you really had to worry about here. No, this is great. I didn't have to worry about any numbers. And thank you both, David and Jessica, so much for having me. I have wanted to be a guest on this for a long time.

[01:48:15] When I got the call, I was ready to go. I felt like a minor league baseball player who finally got the call up to the major leagues. My manager brought me in and was like, we need you. We need you for the spend and run. And I'm happy to be here and get to break down the strategy that we've seen so far this season. Yes. Well, thank you very much for coming and not quizzing us on trivia that we would have failed on.

[01:48:42] And it would have made the podcast an extra half hour longer. Well, yeah. You said you wanted this podcast to go over two hours. I have a whole list of this. All right. And thank you, Jessica. Of course, as always, we will see everyone in a bit over a week. So until then, we'll be on social media and we'll talk to you there. Bye. Bye. Bye, guys. Bye.

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