Why ___ Lost: Survivor 47 Premiere

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi y'all, I'm America and if you thought I spilled way too much in the Big Brother house,

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: brace yourself for my brand new Bachelor podcast on RHAP, America Tells All.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I went on Big Brother for the right reasons and I still fell in love,

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_00]: so I know a thing or two about reality TV romance.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also a huge Bachelor Nation girly, so I've been waiting forever to finally get

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_00]: to spill my unfiltered opinions on every juicy Bachelor moment.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: The party's starting with the Golden Bachelorette,

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_00]: so get your prune juice ready, you don't want to miss anything I have to say.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Follow all the fun at americatellsall.com or search America Tells All wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Bachelor Nation, get ready for America.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the Survivor edition of Why Blank Lost.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm David Bloomberg, and ever since I retired from that other job I had,

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: when people ask me what I do, I have to say I'm an effing podcast host.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my goodness.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Joining me of course is my effing co-host, who still has an important day job, Jessica Lewis.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, yes I do, I do still have my day job, thank you very much.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And I am also an effing podcaster as well, so thank you so much for joining us again.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: We do have a special guest joining us today.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: This is so exciting.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Helping us to welcome Survivor back into our lives once again

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: is Jessica's former winner pick, Survivor 45's Jake O'Kane.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey what's going on?

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought this was just a formal apology to Jess that I lost Survivor.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I need to apologize to you because the butterfly effect,

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I chose you, you didn't win, it's my fault, I'm sorry.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh good, well, what the hell Jess?

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Whoa, I mean whoa.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Now we know why this happened.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yes, no, I was so excited to choose you as my winner

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: even though I understand the ramifications that that can have.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was great watching you, you were incredible television, awesome player.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm so excited to have you here because this is going to be a lovely time.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very much looking forward to this.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So again, I apologize for the negative effect I've had on your life.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_01]: However, let's move forward and let's just do this podcast

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and everything will be great.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm excited, I'm excited.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know Jake, we met of course at the Chicago RJP event last season.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: We were at the Cubs game and I was looking away from where you were,

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, you were coming to your seats and then I heard your voice

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and I immediately turned around, I was like that's Jake.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So how have you been doing?

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I've been good man, I've been good man.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm just grinding away at work, enjoying Survivor 47

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_07]: for the one episode that's been on.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And you guys are getting the last podcast from Grandma's house.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's the last podcast here.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_07]: So, you know, the pink walls are going to be substituted out.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh man.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I do appreciate the fact that you were ending on a high note with us.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, I know that a lot of people

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_02]: said they were surprised at the outcome this first week.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But I have to tell you, as I was watching, it was somewhat obvious to me

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that Andy wasn't going after everything that happened in the challenge

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: in part because it was too obvious.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It was one of those things where it's like,

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: well, this person is clearly going and you're watching going, no, they're not.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And if it wasn't going to be Andy, there seemed to only be one other likely suspect.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, while I didn't notice until my rewatch,

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: there were two big hints in scenes where the camera focused on John

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_02]: as Jeff was talking about someone being in trouble.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I ended up making a video that people can check either in the Patreon group

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: or on my YouTube or TikTok.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You just see it focused right on him.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, of course, there's also people have pointed out,

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, he had the episode title of One Glorious Day on Survivor

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: or whatever it was, One Glorious Episode.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So there were a lot of hints being dropped in that episode.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they were trying to make people understand it

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: because I do think there is a lot to unpack here, though.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And we will get to that.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I know that there are probably some new listeners,

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: thanks to Asia's Rob Has A Podcast shout out on the show.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: For all of you, let me briefly explain what we do here

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: because it's a bit different from your typical like recap podcast.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Each week, we compare what the player who's voted out did in the game

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: to my rules for winning that I originally wrote way back after season one

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and have been updating ever since using all the non-spoiler information

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_02]: available to us from what we saw on TV, interviews, social media and secret scenes.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: What we often find is the basic reasons given on TV

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: or sometimes even by the players themselves in interviews

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: may not tell the whole story.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's rarely one particular action that caused them to get voted out,

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: but rather a bigger series of actions or events that led to it.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_02]: For anyone who's interested, the newest version of the rules can be found

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: by going to our website page, robhaswebsite.com slash yxlossfeed

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and clicking on the link bubble for the survivor rules.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I mentioned Asia's shout out

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and it did remind me of way back when

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: SheeAnne quoted my rule two in her final words back in Survivor Thailand,

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: except she didn't say my name or the name of my website at the time.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So people didn't even know it was a shout out.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't get that good advertising pop, you know?

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but we knew we were there with you.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Before we address how John did in terms of the rules,

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: we always have some other things to discuss from the episode.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it makes sense to start with our two winner picks.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Jake, I'm not sure.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you make a preseason winner pick?

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I did make a preseason winner pick.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Can I share that?

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Is this?

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yes.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I picked Tiana.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I am a little biased.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Tiana was the 45 all when she didn't get on the boat with us that day.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I was floored personally.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't expect Tiana to be the all.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, oh, that's so sad.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_07]: She seemed like such a.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So can I ask you a question about that?

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Did you know that there was alternates there or did you just assume

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: everyone was going to be going out to play?

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no, no, no.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I knew I knew there would be an alternate there.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And I well, like Austin was the other alternate and

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_07]: not too much inside baseball, but someone left and we're like, all right.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there's not another.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_07]: All the men are playing.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: OK.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was that is fascinating, because when when we when I went out for my season,

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_01]: there was there was 20 of us.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So it was like, well, either we're all playing or they do have two alternates.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was one of those.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I was just curious, like how that how that ends up playing out

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: when there are actual alternates like they just don't get on the boat.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: That's so sad.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I think I think Rachel was an alternate for 46.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_07]: She's the female.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but you hang out there.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, oh, my God, I would I would hate that.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I would lose my mind.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, don't talk for a week.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_07]: And you likely or may or may not not do this thing.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_07]: But I mean, now where you've had Austin and Chio get subbed in last minute, like.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, wasn't that bad?

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Wasn't Kelly an alternate originally?

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Kelly was an alternate on 43.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Kelly and Gio were the alternates on 43.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Gio got to go.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's it's so crazy.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be like tripping people in the bathroom or something like, oops.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my God.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so sorry.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Nancy Nancy Kerrigan over here or the opposite, you know, doing it.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: No, really, I'm not that kind of person.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just kidding.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But but that I that that would be a very.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, well, we seem to have lost someone.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyone know where they could be?

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_01]: They're like tucked away somewhere.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, that would be a very, very hard thing to go through to be like present for

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that entire time.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Jessica, you're a criminal prosecutor.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You know how to make it look like an accident.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I I might have seen a few things that people have done now and now and again, but I'm not

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not telling anyone to do these things.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Please don't.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Please don't.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I should change the subject.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so sorry for going down this path.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Do not enter other people to get on Survivor.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, just don't do it.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So what's funny about, you know, that Jessica and I had Asia and Rome as our winner picks

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: because the two of them immediately went head to head, basically, you know, in the first

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_02]: few minutes, Rome criticized Asia for volunteering to go compete for camp supplies because it

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: could weaken her position.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, this is something, by the way, I do want to mention.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I've listened to some other podcasts already, and they were like, well, when Asia volunteered,

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: she, you know, knew this or knew that.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But from what we saw, all Jeff said was something like.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_02]: All I'm telling you is you're getting you know, you're getting camp supplies.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_02]: They did not know it was a head to head competition.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_02]: They did not know what they were going to have to do.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not even sure they knew they were going to have to leave for an extended time.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there was very little information provided, but I still would have leaned more towards

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going because this is and I feel like Asia talked about this in her pregame press,

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: where she didn't want to be the person that was going on.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly, but yeah, there was a lot of things.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but but still, I mean, I feel like I would equate this to like a journey because

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_01]: this is the first day you've just met everyone.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I would not want any time away from my tribe mates immediately because that's when people

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: are bonding.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You're getting to know who you're going to be on a tribe with.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not leaving.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: No, anyone else can go.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: That's fine.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm staying with the tribe so I I can understand that position for sure.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it would be interesting.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I I tend to agree with don't go if you can.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_07]: But if there's an if there's pressure, I don't think make a whole thing about it because the

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_07]: thing is, if you go, it's I don't think it helps you in the game socially.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's I think it is recoverable.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think I did that when I went in sweat and savvy, but it's kind of like the position

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_07]: where I think the logic would be don't go.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_07]: But if you're in a situation like Voucher, right, I think you have to go.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I think you're going to get pushed in that situation or like what personally happened

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_07]: with me when we were when Bella was trying to figure out who's going to go do sweat and

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_07]: savvy.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Brando said, I'm going immediately.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Then we're like, oh, it's it's sweat or savvy.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Like we're going to need someone strong.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm like, oh, how about Bruce?

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_07]: He was in the military is like, man, that was 20 years ago.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh no.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, you literally just did the strength portion of this challenge.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, I was like, I'll go.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm like, oh, this is not going to look good because like the narrative coming off

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_07]: 44 was that all the women went early.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's like, I want to like poke my head up.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_07]: You know what I mean?

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, I ended up going.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think I think Rome's correct.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_07]: I think the I don't think he's right on everything else that goes down in the.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but I think the logic if you can not go, don't.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: That's I agree.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I will be interested in Asia's winter winter interviews,

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, to hear what her logic was for deciding to go.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, sure.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'll be I'll be interested to hear Rome's winter interviews about

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: about that decision that she made being wrong.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Look, this is how he became my winner pick.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Jake, I picked a rock.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_07]: That's policy.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_07]: But I love rocks.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry, we may have different opinions of this.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_07]: It looks like you've embraced it.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I finally did.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, you know what?

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just move past this.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Rocks can be my friend.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And so Rome is now my winner pick rock.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll see if it becomes your friend.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But we know how Jessica's winter pigs go.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm sorry, Jake.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: That's true, because so so Rome goes from criticizing Asia for doing something

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: that could put her in a bad position and then runs off to look for the idol,

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: which he admits could put him in a bad position.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's aware at least he's aware.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: He's aware, but he still did it.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Asia led the tribe search squad as they look for him

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and eventually saw him running away from them.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_01]: He walked he walked away.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: He did not run away.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Tales matter, OK?

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so Asia quickly integrated herself back into the tribe

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: after her unsuccessful journey, thanks in large part to teeny

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and then seemingly got the target pointed at someone else.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, she did.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: She did.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to sit here and speak ill of your winter pick as you are speaking ill of mine.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone plays the game a little bit differently

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and everyone takes a little different approach.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying ill of Rome.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_02]: He looks very fun.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I will tell you, I will tell you a little spoiler for the end of the podcast.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I will not predict that he is voted out.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, how kind of you.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I won't I won't pick Asia either.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: How about that?

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyhow.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, speaking of teeny, I do want to mention that in our preview podcast,

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I said it would be interesting to see if teeny would pull an easy

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: from last season of Big Brother and tell Asia they knew who she was,

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: but would keep it totally secret.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's exactly what happened.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I wonder.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to guess that teeny watches Big Brother also.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder if that was running through their mind as they were doing this.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Quite possible.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But didn't you talk about that also?

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Pregame or like are you saying pregame or in game?

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Both.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Because personally, I wouldn't reckon I wouldn't recognize Asia.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Like I listen to this stuff, but I wouldn't recognize her before going out

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_07]: because like now it's a little more involved at this point.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_07]: But did anyone else recognize Asian pregame?

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Andy.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Andy.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, yes, yes.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But different tribe.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like teeny talks about doing like she was going to say something to her.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But but understood.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to tell anybody else that I.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So she at least.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what they said in pregame.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's exactly what they said to Asia as well was, hey, I'm not going to say.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was almost word for word when he told Mike Bloom.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was good practice, you know?

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I you know, and that helped integrate Asia back in.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you know, I think was really good.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because a friend of mine and I've been asked this before,

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: but a friend of mine asked me on Facebook if I would play survivor

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_02]: if they called, I said, well, they're not going to call.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But if they magically did.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Besides all the other reasons that they won't call, I would do it.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But I would also expect like Asia that I'd be recognized.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: The difference is.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Asia is seen as much nicer than me.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm the guy who has been telling players what they did wrong for literally decades.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And so and you've sucked me into your world, Bloomberg.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And as to me, way too many people

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: would want to vote me out and go to the voting booth and say,

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is why David lost, you know, my name on the.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So make sure you wear that T-shirt when you go out in the.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: That would be awesome.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And everyone will know.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, my God.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, besides our two winner picks, there are a couple other people I want to discuss,

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_02]: starting with Andy.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, a lot has already been said about him and what happened.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So we don't need to delve further into that.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: He clearly had a series of bad moments of things piling on like stress,

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: lack of sleep, other personal stuff and some heat exhaustion.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But to me, the key is what it means for him going forward,

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: because I've seen a fair number of people compare him to Bhanu.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't see it that way.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Just look at how quickly he was able to turn it around,

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: get in with the majority to vote out John.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, he probably just went along with what they told him.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But someone like Bhanu would have continued breaking down

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and even the thought of it.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I think Andy is someone else.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, Jake, you and I, I think are on the same page with this.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think Andy gives me a lot of Emily vibes.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Just in Emily had a rough day one, she would tell you that.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And then she goes on this great arc of becoming an increasingly

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_07]: better survivor player to the point where she's a massive threat to win

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_07]: and has the best story of the season going into final seven of Survival 45.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I rough stop for Andy.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I get I like.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_07]: I get that.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, I get that you're worried you're on the outs.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Especially early on.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_07]: And based on the exit interviews from John, like Andy had the correct read,

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_07]: like he had the correct read.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Andy was being left out of stuff and.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_07]: It's it's, you know, survivor, there's a learn.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a little learning curve at the beginning of, oh, yes, you know.

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_07]: How do I settle in to, you know?

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Number one, being on your favorite show in the world,

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_07]: and number two, just the elements.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And it sounds like he wasn't sleeping.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I was freaking out early on, but I didn't sleep too bad the first couple of days.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_07]: If I wasn't sleeping like Andy, who knows?

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_07]: But I do think that.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I do think we can get into it now, we can get into it later,

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_07]: but with kind of what's happened over the past couple of seasons,

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I think Andy's actually not in the worst spot right now, as shocking as that may sound.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do think that those are incredibly valid points about.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_01]: The learning curve that you have to go through when you get out there,

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_01]: because you really it doesn't matter how many times you tell yourself,

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_01]: this is what I'm going to do and this is how I'm going to do it.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is how it's all going to be until you're actually out on an island

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and it goes completely pitch black and you can't see a damn thing.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're sleeping on bamboo that's very uncomfortable.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's bugs and birds running through and over you.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's crabs like it is all of these things that you can't prep yourself for.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You can prepare for so many things.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But then once you have the elements thrown at you

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and there's no food and there's no water,

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and your body really is almost kind of in shock for a little bit.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And some people adjust really well.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I managed to adjust very well.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_01]: There was other people on my tribe that did.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But you also have to look at the amount of people that are there.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I had 10 people on my tribe.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess six.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I do feel like having that smaller amount of people

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_01]: makes it that much more intense.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And Jake, I'm sure you can speak to this,

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that you notice when you're being left out that much more

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_01]: because there's so few people.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, 10 versus six, it's huge when you're in a tribe

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_01]: or an island all by yourself.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I can imagine that if you are the person that is being left out,

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a light shining on it and you can't help but miss it.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And it then compounds all of these other things

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that you're having to deal with knowing

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_01]: this is a social game that you need to play

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and you're being ostracized or just left out.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It must be a very difficult thing to have to go through

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: with such a smaller group of people.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I agree with that.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, like you're analyzing each one of these five other people

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_07]: you're on a tribe with so much more in particular.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And I can't speak to experience with 10 people,

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_07]: but I just imagine having four other people.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, oh, maybe I could have misread that.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like you got five people around you.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_07]: You might be misreading things, but you can get the vibe.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_07]: You know what I mean?

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think the thing with the Andy too,

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if I could speak on his longevity in the game,

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_07]: is I think there was, I saw some talk about Andy

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_07]: becoming Charlie Brown, becoming the Jake,

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_07]: becoming the Owen and that could absolutely happen.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think if he's going to have a rough moment like this

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_07]: and get sank to the bottom of the totem pole really hard

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_07]: and be seen in the kind of way that he's being seen

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_07]: by his tribe right now,

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's better than it happens now.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I think if there's opportunity in time,

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I think if it happens after the merge,

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know how much anyone could do to bring themselves

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_07]: out of that, out of that point.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think Andy has a lot of time.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot of game.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot of twists probably coming down the line.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I think Andy could pull himself out of his spot.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, finally, I want to mention, you know, Jessica,

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: you and I worried in the preseason podcast

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_02]: about Annika project managing.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yes.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there she was.

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_02]: One of these perfect people who's like,

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to do this going in

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and immediately starts doing it.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: There are certain parts of yourself

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that you just cannot put away when you go out there to play.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And we've talked about this a lot.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Like Jessica was told,

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: put parts of yourself in a box by people that I work with.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, just, you know,

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_01]: just keep Jessica in a box a little bit.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: You, and she was very aware of that portion

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: of herself going out there,

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: but she did not keep any of it in the box.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: She was like, I'm just going to take over.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell you how you can find

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: these particular coconuts,

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: how we should build the shelter.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And we need more bamboo and all of these things.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So I do.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But also there was an appreciation by other people

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: on her tribe that she was doing that

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_01]: because then she's the leader and they don't have to be.

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, lean in on that.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: If someone wants to do it, let them do it.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Let them kind of dig their own hole if they want

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and then put all the focus on them for sure.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I like Anika's confessions.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I like, I like Anika a lot.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought that was a really funny scene.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think if going down the line,

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_07]: like it might be helpful day one,

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_07]: but like that can start to grate on people.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And I hope for her sake, it doesn't.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Then you become Bruce.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Some people would feel that way.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't mind, you know, that kind of person.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_07]: But other people might.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Do either of you have anything or anyone else

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_02]: you want to discuss before we get to the rules?

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, y'all.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm America.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you thought I spilled way too much

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: in the Big Brother house,

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: brace yourself for my brand new Bachelor podcast

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: on RHAP, America Tells All.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I went on Big Brother for the right reasons

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and I still fell in love.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So I know a thing or two about reality TV romance.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also a huge Bachelor Nation girly.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So I've been waiting forever to finally get to spill

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: my unfiltered opinions on every juicy Bachelor moment.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: The party's starting with the golden Bachelorette.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So get your prune juice ready.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to miss anything I have to say.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Follow all the fun at americatellsall.com

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: or search America Tells All wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Bachelor Nation, get ready for America.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I will say one thing that my mother noted,

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: which I thought was really quite fascinating.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I missed.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And this, I guess for future survivor players

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: never even thought about this.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: When you're doing, we didn't do a mud challenge on my season

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and I kind of wish we had.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, then you weren't properly birthed into survivor.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: But my mom said that some people put their buffs over their faces

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and before they jumped in the mud,

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01]: they didn't even notice that.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, that's a genius move.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So for future survivor players.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_02]: The first one that I saw do it was Sam.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if he invented it,

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_02]: but I commented on that on Twitter.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He was the first one I saw

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_02]: because some of them were using it to cover other parts.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: He literally pulled it over his whole face.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is good because I have a buff handy,

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: but you can still see out through that.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you know?

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I think if you keep can keep the mud off your face, do it.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Like when we had our first community challenge,

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_07]: we're sliding down this A-frame and I'm like,

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm keeping my face out

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_07]: and we just had to crawl under something.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_07]: There was like raised.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_07]: But with these guys, like the ropes right on them,

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_07]: like that's pressing them in the rope above you as muddy.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, yeah, you need that

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_07]: because if you can't see like that's.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'm not on my lip.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there were, of course, some other things going on

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'll be putting some of it as clips

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: in my YouTube shorts at David Bloomberg TV.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But before we get to how John did,

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to mention that the rules we're about to discuss

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: come in a colorful and shorter form as a poster.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So go to Rob has a website dot com slash YX lost feed.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Scroll down to that poster and click on it

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and then order it.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And our crack shipping department

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_02]: will get one right out to you.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Crack?

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Crack.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, not on crack.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You're the crack shipping department.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll send it to you.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You're ruining the illusion of the shipping department.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess there are so many people working to pay for us.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, big operation.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: These big operation over here.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You can keep scrolling down and find the poster on a T-shirt

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_02]: or you can find the shirt that Jessica is wearing.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: The checklist.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So again, go to Rob has website dot com slash YX lost feed.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can you can do all of those things.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You can wear us.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You can hang us in your space.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be lovely.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Jeff Probst said in his podcast that John was voted out

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: because the others saw him as a threat to win,

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: which sounds a bit premature for the first tribal council.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: John talked about the tribe not having many strategic discussions

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and the TV episode made it look like an issue of John

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: not fitting in with his younger tribe mates.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Were any of these the actual explanation?

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_02]: How did the situation with Andy affect the outcome?

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: At RHAP, we know survivor and we know why John lost.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Ooh.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: No shot.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Part of the rebranding.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I love this.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So good.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: The first and most important rule is to scheme and plot.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: John definitely understood this and made attempts to get himself

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_02]: out of his jam by doing so.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: The problem was, I don't think he started doing it early enough.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: In the show, we saw him getting paired up with Andy almost right away.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And in his interviews, John talked about two other pairs forming

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Sam and Sierra and Rachel and Anika.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And he said he had a good relationship with Anika early,

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_02]: but didn't do a good job of maintaining it.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So obviously that's one thing he could have done.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: However, there are some hints, both within the show and his interviews

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_02]: that all may not have been exactly as he thought.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, we can't 100% confirm this until other members of his tribe

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: who were in the know are voted out and do interviews.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But we've seen situations like this before many times.

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_02]: When the player on the outs says things like

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: there was very little strategic conversation

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: or people were reluctant to break into groups

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: to discuss strategy or the like.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It almost always turns out that wasn't quite the case.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And rather, other people were discussing strategy.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: They just weren't discussing it with you.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_06]: And who would say that?

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's my suspicion here.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, oh, I hope this doesn't hit too close to home.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Jake, how do you feel about that?

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, no, that's correct.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_07]: That's correct.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_07]: If people, I don't know, maybe back in like 2010,

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_07]: like 2011, maybe that was the case.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, I mean, look, with the people they're casting

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_07]: on New Era Survival, everyone's got a plan.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone's got to play.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe like, I don't know, like a Rocks Roy has two plans over you

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_07]: but like that or no plan at all.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_07]: But that would be it.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone's got a plan.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And if people aren't talking, if nobody's talking to you,

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah, you know, you should know where you're at.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we saw it, especially last season, you know,

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: in the early episodes with Venus who kept saying,

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: no one wants to talk strategy.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And meanwhile, yeah, they've all made alliances

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're not in them, you know?

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a tough, I mean, I felt Venus in that,

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_07]: you know what I mean?

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Like that's, it's a tough spot.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_07]: It puts you in a position where you're like, now I need to,

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_07]: how do I do it?

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's a state of panic when it's like,

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_07]: it's kind of like a Chinese figure trap,

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_07]: like, you know, the heart of your fault.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I do think that there's something to be said

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_01]: where if you are not necessarily feeling

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_01]: like you are part of the group

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and he thought that he had a relationship with Andy,

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he necessarily was trying to foster that beyond Andy

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_01]: because if Andy was somehow integrating himself with the others,

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_01]: he could have utilized Andy as a bridge

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: but it didn't seem like that was necessarily what was happening.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It was almost like, I've got Andy over here

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_01]: but I've got some maybe concerns about Andy

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_01]: instead of utilizing Andy,

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I think in the way that it would have been better for him

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_01]: to try to integrate with everyone.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, some of what John said in interviews

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_02]: was also a little confusing to me

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_02]: because he said people told him right after the challenge

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_02]: that Andy was going and he knew they were lying.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But he also had said, as we mentioned,

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: that nobody was strategizing before him.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So how would they have gotten so locked in among the four of them

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_02]: between what happened with Andy and the challenge

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and right after when players, of course,

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_02]: aren't allowed to talk to each other

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_02]: during transport to and from challenges?

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So it seems to me that it is quite possible

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_02]: they were already locked in against John.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, based on the timeline he gave,

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: they simply didn't have the opportunity

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_02]: to get their stories and plans straight.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So I really, I know he put some of the blame

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_02]: on what happened with Andy.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that was necessarily what caused it.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_02]: To the contrary, I think what happened with Andy

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_02]: caused some of them to question the decision

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_02]: they had already made

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and that may have been what led to discussions

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_02]: that we saw on the show about challenge,

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: strength and stability.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the timeline that John thinks happened

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: may be a little off.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I think they locked in against John.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Then they saw what happened.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: They started debating amongst themselves, the four,

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: rather than kind of flipping it around

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_02]: like John was thinking.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's an interesting point

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: because I do think, and Jake,

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: you can probably speak to this as well,

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_01]: how quickly determinations are made

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: as to who needs to go.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those, you're like,

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: okay, that person has to go.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And then someone else will talk,

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: okay, that person has to go.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And so there's an agreement.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And so if something happens to derail that initial plan,

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: yes, there needs to be follow-up conversations

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: like, oh God, should we still stick with the plan

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that we made before because this happened over here?

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's a very valid point

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_01]: that there was probably a pretty certain determination

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that had been made.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be John.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And then all of these things were happening with Andy.

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So they have to convince themselves

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that what Andy can still bring to the table

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: is better than what we've got going on with John.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that definitely makes sense

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_01]: as to why that determination was made.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But for viewers looking at it,

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: it likely seemed off

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_01]: because why would you not just choose this person?

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But you've already chosen a person,

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: so you need to kind of revisit that decision.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think the interesting thing

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_07]: about the first vote too in New Era Survivor

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_07]: is that this is the longest cycle.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Like in New Era, someone's getting voted out every two days

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_07]: or one day right after the next.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_07]: The first cycle is three days.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_07]: John had three days out there.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_07]: So by the time they get to the challenge on day three,

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd imagine this had already been talked.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Like you guys are saying,

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd imagine it had already been talked about at length.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_07]: I wouldn't be shocked if what the idea was going in

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_07]: was Andy or John, maybe not necessarily locked in on John.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_07]: But Andy or John,

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Andy does what Andy does at the challenge.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Then it's like, I'm not afraid of Andy anymore.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_07]: It's John.

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like we don't have to...

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I think they could have shied away

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_07]: from voting out Andy after that event

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_07]: because it's kind of Andy showed all his cards.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_07]: We're not scared of him.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And if you look at the past couple seasons of Survivor,

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_07]: this kind of idea of a human smoke screen

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_07]: has been used very commonly.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I haven't heard it talked about too much,

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_07]: but with this season, you may have Andy.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Last season, you had Venus and Q.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_07]: The season before you had me.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_07]: The season...

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_07]: But there's this development of a smoke screen person

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_07]: that we're not gonna bring in that much,

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_07]: but who we vote now next.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's gonna be easy to take out those threats

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_07]: you wanna take because the vote is almost so obvious.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think Andy kind of secured himself that

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_07]: for the next round or maybe two.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_01]: It's true though that I feel for the tribe though,

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01]: sorry, that I think in keeping Andy

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and the difference here with having that smoke screen person,

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: which I appreciate and I think is exactly

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_01]: what's likely going to be happening here.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Andy has revealed himself to the other tribes as well.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's where things can be a little bit more hinky

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_01]: in the new era Survivor when you do have these journeys

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and when you have these things that people

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_01]: are going to separate from their tribes

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and individual with people from other tribes

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that then you have to be concerned

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_01]: because Andy has made it very clear.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm on the outs, they don't like me, I'm in trouble.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So if Andy gets to go on a journey,

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_01]: whoever meets Andy is going to be just waiting

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and just, I can't wait to talk to this person

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and find out all of the information.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And so there could be some concerns

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_01]: as to what he would share and whether or not

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_01]: he's gonna flip if they make it to emerge.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And so those are the things that I look at this decision

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and go, hmm, I don't know if necessarily as a group

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_01]: it's going to be safe because now he's kind of

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_01]: thrown everyone under the bus.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't just John, it was everyone.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And in this type of gameplay,

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_01]: you are allowing him an opportunity

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_01]: to share with other tribes what's going on

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_01]: in your tribe before you even get there.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd agree with that.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I will say the thing with the smoke,

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_07]: this thing with the smoke screen person too

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_07]: is that it always screws over their original tribe.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_07]: It always screws over their original tribe.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Like Venus is a smoke screen,

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Soda, Tevin Hunter goes, I'm a smoke screen.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Bruce Kelly, Kendra goes like that's, I think

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_07]: that's the only thing that, like you're saying

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_07]: that could become an issue for them down the line.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think with the, if there is prior to a swap

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_07]: this could help someone, whoever, who do we think is

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_07]: can we talk about who we think is controlling those votes?

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I think who's ever in charge, like strategically

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_07]: or who's ever the best positioned

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_07]: will be able to use it effectively.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: We could definitely talk about that more

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: probably in appendix A, I think.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I did want to mention another piece

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: of circumstantial evidence in favor

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_02]: of it having been locked in ahead of time

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_02]: was that Andy mentioned in his whole turmoil

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_02]: that he was going to throw John under the bus.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that came out of nowhere.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that was a slip of what he actually planned to do

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: because I think he found out

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_02]: that the others were targeting John

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_02]: which would have been obviously before the challenge.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't tell you how he would have found out.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: If I had to guess, maybe he heard it from Rachel

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_02]: before he had that bad night's sleep

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and wasn't on her good side anymore.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, quite honestly

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_02]: that might've helped cause his bad night's sleep.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Just thinking about, oh my gosh, I'm in with John

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: but now I've heard that John could be the target.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_02]: What am I going to do?

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, now I'm really diving deep

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_02]: into what might be, but.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, that's what you have to do.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to dive deep.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_02]: No, dig deep.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, survivor you dig deep.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm here you dive deep.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I know you dive deep, but also you go

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and when you're going into a well

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: you might be diving deep and not digging deep.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_07]: You dig the well and then you dive into it.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_07]: All right.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this would of course lead us to wonder

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: why they would have locked in against John

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: rather than Andy at that point.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's wait for that because it comes back to some actions

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: we'll discuss in later rules.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_02]: For now within this rule, what I think we could say is

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02]: John took a swing to change things up

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02]: by trying to get Sam to join himself

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and Andy to vote out Annika.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But we also saw Sam quickly reject the idea

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_02]: which further tells me that things were already set

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_02]: by that point.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And indeed John told Rob he's very confident

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: that it was already him as the target

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: before he put Annika's name out there, but he tried.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And Sam was great in that scene too.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to give him credit for really seeming

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_01]: to acknowledge that idea and acting like,

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: oh yeah, no, this sounds like that would be a good plan.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And then immediately it was like, no.

[00:39:22] Yeah.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He did so good in that moment.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It was great.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I like Sam a lot.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I think he's going deep, right?

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Like that would be a huge blind side if he got blindsided.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Like he's just the kind of guy

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_07]: he gives me very, and I said this about Hunter last season

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_07]: and like my person who I compare it to compare him

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_07]: to like Austin, you know what I mean?

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Like he gets along with everyone.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Like he's clearly a smart dude, but you're not worried

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_07]: about getting stabbed in the back by, you know,

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's, you know, he's a Bears fan.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, obviously he's, you know, gonna do well.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So now before he may have to keep that whole Bears fan thing

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_02]: under wraps since he works for the Titans now.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So sorry, but he grew up near me.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So before John's interviews, I was thinking John should

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: have turned on Andy and done everything he could

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_02]: to get people to go with what seemed to be the easy vote

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_02]: after hearing the situation in terms of conversations

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_02]: he had and how people were insisting

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: that they were voting Andy.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I understand why he couldn't really do more

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_02]: in that department.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And he said in another interview that he believes

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_02]: he had a conversation with Anika to try to throw the vote

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: on Andy, but again, the problem was she said

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_02]: she was already doing that.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So how do you change a vote against you

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: when everyone is insisting that they're already voting

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: the way you want?

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Tough spot.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_07]: I do think the first vote can be a runaway.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I think the first vote and we've seen in a lot

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_07]: of seasons can just be like, there's, I don't want

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_07]: to say there's nothing anyone can do.

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's like early on, like literally those

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_07]: first couple minutes you have to integrate yourself.

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think like we're talking about day three,

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_07]: what could have John have done the morning of day three?

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Probably not a lot.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_07]: If we're taking this.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That ball was all, you know, that snowball was already

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_02]: darn near the bottom of the hill at that point.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, almost by the time you realize it,

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_07]: sometimes it's too late.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Fortunately for John.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we can go to the second rule, which says not

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_02]: to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: secret now right off the bat.

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I think we have part of the answer to how the vote

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: got locked in against him early.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: He and Andy went off to get logs and we saw on the show

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that Andy said he was the one who pulled John aside.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And then John said the same thing in his interviews,

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_02]: noting Andy pulled me for one second on day one.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_02]: All of a sudden I'm tied to Andy.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Personally, by the way, I don't necessarily think that

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: was all that tied him to Andy.

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was his own joking at the at the mat when

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Andy's like I had four friends in high school and John's

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_02]: like four friends.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You're lucky.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they were kind of trying to out nerd each

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: other at that point.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So but but anyway, what we also saw was John immediately

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: got the blame.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So Andy pulls him aside and Sierra tells the other three.

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: John grabbed Andy and took him away.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So that showed who the other four thought was the one

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_02]: who was being scheming.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: The facts didn't matter.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Only the perception did.

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, which is something we have talked about ad nauseam.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Perception becomes reality.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't want to be locked in with someone,

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_01]: don't disappear with that person within the first five

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_01]: minutes of being on the island period.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's I mean, they were scheming and plotting

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_07]: too much perception, but not actually.

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Tied to that anchor.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yeah, but that's what happens.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you could have been like, oh, and I can use

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: an example from from my season where we happen to be

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_01]: like first day.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_01]: We're setting everything up, trying to get the the camp

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: life structured in a fashion that would make everyone

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_01]: happy.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I happen to look over and I see that Sunday is digging

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_01]: a hole and she's digging a hole with one of the with

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: CeCe and they're like over off in the woods.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, why are they digging?

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was this whole thing.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we're all like, oh my God, they're digging.

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what they were doing?

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_01]: They were digging a poop spot.

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But but everyone we saw it and like and production

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_01]: actually went over and told them that's not a good

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01]: poop spot because it was too close to the camp.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But that's what they had decided.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, we're going to be like this is going to

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_01]: be our poop spot.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was all they were doing.

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But from anyone outside looking in, you're like, oh

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_01]: my God, they're digging.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_01]: They're looking for something.

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: They're in cahoots.

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: They're working together.

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, it was a poop spot.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is what I'm saying.

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Like immediately, whatever you do, people are going

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to respond in a particular way.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to assume certain things that they just

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_01]: don't know because they're playing survivor.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, it's something as simple as pulling someone

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_01]: aside to go look for wood or what.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, now you're locked in and now you're

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: together.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, John told Mike Bloom, I don't know that there's

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_02]: a way for me to play the game without coming across

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_02]: as strategic and smart, to be honest.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I would say there was a way, but it would have

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: meant hiding who he was.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And he also told Mike, I wasn't going to not be myself

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_02]: because I'd rather go home as myself than try to

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_02]: hide and kind of soften the edges and never have

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: been on the show at all.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So could I have done something different?

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there are ways I could have been a little

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_02]: less brazen in terms of being strategic, maybe.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And that part, I agree with him.

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He could have done something different.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_02]: He chose not to.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_02]: That's up to him.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Andy, on the other hand, was hiding that

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_02]: side of himself.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of his tribe mates even commented that he

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: wasn't very strategic.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was Rachel, but I'm not 100% sure.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, everybody comes into Survivor a little bit

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_02]: differently.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Some admit to being to lawyers.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Some pretend to have different jobs.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Some admit to being...

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel a little called out, Jake.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Quickly defending that.

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Right before we went to go film Survivor 45, Josh

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_07]: was just voted out and outed for being a doctor.

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm like...

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And my whole thinking behind it is like, my

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_07]: demeanor, I think, is going to counteract that.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_07]: I think there was other reasons why I was put on

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_07]: the bottom.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think it was because I was an attorney.

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was unfortunate that I started on a

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_07]: tribe with another person who also was an attorney.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And that didn't work out well.

[00:45:44] But...

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I was a photographer.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I never admitted I was a lawyer.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So listen, I understand entirely needing to

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_01]: perhaps hide some components of yourself.

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, but lawyers seem to be taking over

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Survivor as of late.

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a good time for us.

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's a great time for us.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I wish we had more million dollars, but yeah.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_01]: That is a very fair point for sure.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Yule and Nick, right?

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_07]: That's it.

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yule wasn't at the time.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he wasn't at the time.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think you...

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I could be incorrect and someone correct me if I am wrong.

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But I thought that Nick was the first attorney that actually won.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, so basically what it comes down to is

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_02]: some people admit different things.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Some admit to being smart and strategic.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Some do their best to hide it.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_02]: The problem is, like you just said, Jake,

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes one of those things can be held against you.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But it can also be held against you if you hide it,

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_02]: like you said with Dr. Josh and you're found out.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Can I say that?

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, I do think that like John being viewed as a smart guy,

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_07]: like viewed as being more intelligent or more of a threat than Andy.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think that matters if he's just in early, right?

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Like in the determination, like after the four solidified themselves,

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_07]: like Sam and the women on the tribe solidify themselves.

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Andy and John are the two people on the outs between the two of them.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_07]: John is smarter.

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_07]: But if you don't even have to go into that logic of between the two,

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_07]: you're in the original four.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Like I think John might be right.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_07]: He might not be able to play it down so much, especially where

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_07]: even if he talks about his job, he does a political podcast.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, he's clearly, you can tell he's a well-read guy.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And you can only hide that for so long, even if he's going to attempt to do that.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Just based on his occupation.

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I think if it comes down to that, he's always going to be viewed as the smarter person.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe not as big a threat as the other person,

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_07]: but he's always going to be viewed as that kind of way.

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I think his way was to get into the four if he could.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Unfortunately, the train kind of leaves the station quicker than you'd expect.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of this, I think the theme that we're seeing is going to be comparatively.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You know that.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And in this case, you know, when you see two people go off,

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_02]: you believe one of them is strategic and the other one isn't.

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, who are you going to blame?

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So even though Andy was the one who pulled him aside, John got the blame.

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's yeah, that's a that's a very, very valid point.

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, the third rule tells players to be flexible.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I know we've already discussed a lot about John's attempts

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_02]: or lack of attempts to strategize.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But Jake, what did you think of John's flexibility in the few days that we saw him?

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I didn't I didn't think it was bad, right?

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, I mean, he was clearly ready to shake things up.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_07]: He wasn't.

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I think we saw that as soon as he's like, oh, you're the backup vote.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_07]: John's like.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe we do, Anika.

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe we switch it up.

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Like it's especially for the first.

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I understand sometimes the situations in the game where you just have to bite the bullet

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_07]: and accept that you're going to be the backup person.

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I do believe that, but.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think you should really be asking anyone to be that for the first vote.

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I mean, like it and I wouldn't expect any player going out there.

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Don't don't bite the bullet.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_07]: I would recommend not biting the bullet on that one.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Do not bite the bullet on the first vote of being the backup target.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_07]: And clearly, John didn't do that and attempted to do something about it.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Wasn't successful.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, I don't think I don't think John's problem is flexibility at all.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I'd agree.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree with you.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a little hard for me to say in his interviews.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_02]: He repeatedly talked about the situation he was in and the way it kind of narrowed down

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_02]: the possible options to just him.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I do think we have to go back to what he said about a missed opportunity

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_02]: to connect more with Anika as key, because, you know, once he got tagged as Andy's partner.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like we've been discussing, he was kind of stuck.

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I think there's a difference between flexibility of being able to do anything.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Versus right.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Being willing to do it.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Like in terms of willing to do anything, I think that John.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Was that I think in ability to obviously not.

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, we go to the fourth rule, which tells players not to let their emotions

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_02]: control them.

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And while we certainly saw one member of this tribe get emotions, emotional, that's a different

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_02]: story for another day.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Jessica, how do you think John did here?

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like he actually did a really nice job at controlling himself, considering what

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Jake was just talking about being told that you're going to be the backup vote.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_01]: FYI.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And he didn't want to be that, but he didn't respond in a way that was like, oh, my gosh,

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_01]: no, he just kind of accepted it.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Probably should have said something more at that point in time, because as Jake was just

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_01]: saying that you don't want to be the backup vote, because that means you might be the

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_01]: vote.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So I do think that he did manage to keep things in check.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, when you're getting called out in front of every other member of every tribe that

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to throw John under the bus, like a whoa, whoa, what did I do?

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't do anything.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And he just stood there and just took it.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that had to have been a very uncomfortable moment.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like I would want to say something like, listen, I'm not sure what he's even

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_01]: talking about why I'm being thrown under the bus, because you have to be mindful of who

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_01]: your audience is.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just your own tribe.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the people over on the other mats that know nothing of what's going on.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're just going to read into that.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So if there's a chance that John saves himself, and then they come back to the mat and they

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_01]: see John, the other people might be a little suspicious of John.

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And if there's a swap or if there's a journey, so there's all of these other permutations

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_01]: that he needed to be thinking about.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that he didn't respond, I was quite surprised.

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I was quite surprised his ability to keep that in check.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that was that was really impressive.

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Like two very difficult situations.

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if I would have reacted the same way.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't know if a lot of like if this shows casting, I don't want to say like John's

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_07]: obviously casting.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_07]: If this shows casting correctly, 50 percent of the people cast should not be able to handle

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_07]: that.

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And luckily for John, John was able to handle both of those effectively.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, he did.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_02]: He responded in a fairly logical way, explaining what Andy had said in a more neutral manner.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_02]: But remember what John does for a living?

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's safe to say he's used to being on the receiving end of a wide variety of

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_02]: very emotional insults and attacks.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Much worse, much, much worse than anything Andy indicated here.

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, maybe he that experience has made him better able to handle something that

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_02]: was much tamer in comparison.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to run through this real quick.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Do we think if John if John in the moment on the mat is like, honestly, Andy, F you.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_07]: What what's going on?

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And he like got mad and maybe seemed a little unhinged back towards Andy.

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Is there the possibility that that helps?

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, at that point, why not try it right?

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, so they're trying to go back to camp and we're like, honestly, fuck this guy.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, you're like, yeah, this is ridiculous.

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, my God.

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Why not?

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Because because the whole conversation was, wow, John handled that greatly and he did,

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_07]: but he still went home.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe he's there.

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_07]: But if he's just like, honestly, Jeff, this is ridiculous.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_07]: This guy says he's seen every season.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Bye bye bye bye bye.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_07]: You know what I mean?

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Just go away.

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I would I think I love this.

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I love this approach.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Go all in and just leave it on the mat right there.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, listen, like, look at the other child.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you all hearing this?

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Did you see what just happened?

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, are we kidding?

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Something that would have been I think that would have been great.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_01]: A great moment.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That would have been a great moment.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I I'm like kind of like how could John stayed a little after like day two of things being

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_07]: decided?

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know, because like people do get a lot like if people don't like somebody and

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_07]: if the tribe doesn't like Andy right now and John can kind of come in and it's like,

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_07]: honestly, yeah, guys like this ridiculous.

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Like what what are we doing here?

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_07]: You know?

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe I don't know if like maybe like a 15 percent chance it might have worked.

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but I can't think it's zero.

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's zero percent.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Out smoke screen the smoke screen, you know, out.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You out Venus Venus, you know, out.

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I like this.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I like this approach a lot.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_07]: That would be safe for me in the smoke screen.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I can start, you know, build a fire, puffing more smoke.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_07]: You know what I mean?

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think it's a zero percent chance.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think it's a zero percent.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So he should have completely violated this rule and just got totally emotional on this.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's what we would have been talking about.

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, talking about Andy.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, who knows?

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many possibilities.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_07]: All right.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Not to win, not to win, not to survive, but to win.

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_07]: But to survive the vote.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_01]: That is a very good point to make like this is you always need to make it to the next

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_01]: day. Right.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And things can shift and change.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not a bad it's not a bad plan.

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I like to think there's a 15 percent chance that that would have worked.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_07]: It's safe.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I like it.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I like it.

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I support this.

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I do.

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I like that.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_02]: That would have been hysterical.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we can move to the fifth rule, which reminds players they need to pretend to be

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_02]: nice unless they're going off on someone in response.

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And play the social game.

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there's any doubt that John was nice.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe Jacob a little too nice, according to your possible plan there.

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But the real question here is how he did in the social game aspect.

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It was portrayed somewhat as if he didn't really fit in.

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So, Jake, what do you think?

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_07]: For in terms of him fitting it?

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think he was.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, he said it.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Exit interviews.

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_07]: He may have been to what he say, brazen with people.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Was that what he was saying?

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_02]: He said that going in that he could go in.

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_07]: I couldn't.

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I mean.

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, he he came across he came across as nice.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's.

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_07]: It was just getting in with the people right away.

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_07]: That didn't happen.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, his confessionals were his confessionals weren't that biting even like, you know, I

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_07]: know when we think of this, we think of like Boston Robin talking crap and confessional.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_07]: But confessionals weren't they were fun.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_07]: They were funny.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_07]: He's a funny guy, but they weren't.

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Screw these people.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_07]: These people are crazy.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, he had some comments about he's losing it a little bit, but nothing really super

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_07]: biting.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't have any reason to believe when they didn't know his podcast like.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Might have been more ticked up, but yeah, you see like a really nice guy out there,

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_07]: you know?

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a little insulted.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be like going out there and they'd be like, what, you don't know who I am.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm wearing a podcaster shirt.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_02]: What the hell?

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, John did tell Mike Bloom he thought it through afterwards and wondered

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_02]: did he have trouble fitting in or was he building good connections?

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Was it a social problem?

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And his answer to himself was maybe a little bit of the latter, but he goes back in his

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_02]: mind to it being what he described as quote an outcome of the strategic dynamics, not

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_02]: social ones.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Because much like Andy showed us, it was a math problem with a group of six.

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_02]: He added to Dalton Ross, Sam and Sierra seemed to pair right away.

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Anika and Rachel were in the middle and it was me and Andy.

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what you saw in the episode was real, which is that Rachel really discounted

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Andy.

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So then there was just a natural flow towards Sam and Sierra.

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And that really had nothing to do with me.

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I really do think it was less of a social thing and more of just a strategic challenge

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_02]: in a group of six people where there's nowhere to hide.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So again, that was him telling Dalton that.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I also feel like in his press that he provided pregame press, I was really hopeful

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that he was going to kind of be that.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I almost want to say like a David Wright kind of personality where he's able to connect

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_01]: in a way that's almost self-deprecating, but then also doesn't seem to be any type of a

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_01]: concern.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know if he's necessarily able to connect that way with people, because I

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_01]: think Jake, you've already said he's clearly very well read.

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a smart individual.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you are not able to connect in a way that also minimizes that part of you, then

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that can be the focal point, right?

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_01]: That like, oh, he seems nice, but he also seems there's something else there.

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's very smart.

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_01]: He's well, he's well read.

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_01]: There's something going on, which then can elevate you to a different level in the minds

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_01]: of people you're playing survivor with.

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas if you have Andy, who's like an open book, Andy's just like putting it all out

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_01]: there.

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is exactly what's going on and I'm not a strategic person.

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're not going to think you're a strategic person because of the way that you're behaving.

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think when you start to like kind of weigh that out with each other, he becomes

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_01]: more of a concern, even if he's getting along with everyone.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_01]: There's something a little more questionable about what's going on under the surface with

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_01]: John.

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just think that's the way John is.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So he's a fine, lovely person and he's sociable, but there's something else there that just

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_01]: leads them to question, is he being a little more underhanded and sneaky?

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, even with all of this, John also told Mike Bloom, I had some really good moments

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_02]: with Annika, with Rachel and with Andy.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: They were really funny, good conversations with everyone.

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_02]: But that to me was where I felt the most comfortable and what I had hoped would happen, what I

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_02]: expected would happen is Rachel, Annika and I, I had a natural affinity with Annika and

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: with Rachel.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I just feel like we're the kind of people that would get along.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I continue to believe that's true.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I felt like what would ultimately happen if we had to go to vote is it would basically

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: it would be basically persuading Annika and Rachel to come along with me and with Andy.

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But of course that didn't happen.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, were his connections not as tight as he thought?

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Or does it go back to what I quoted a moment ago about it not being social but strategic?

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I suspect it was the latter.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's easier for the TV show to make it look like he wasn't fitting in because

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: of his age or personnel or whatever.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It's easier for them to do that than to explain the strategic dynamic of what was happening.

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and if you're that other group and you're trying to decide who you want to lock in with,

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: are you going to lock in with the person who is not it's kind of almost having a meltdown

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you've also got the person that is you're like questioning?

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, he's nice, but we think that he's a little more strategic.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, or do you go the two people are like, there's no issues over here.

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it kind of seems to be like an easy choice when you're weighing those two options.

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that in this case, you know, in the first three days,

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, it's often said you can't it's said about Survivor, it's said about poker,

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: it's said about lots of things.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't win in the first three days, but you can lose in the first three days.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's where this rule kind of comes in.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, your social game is not going to be so amazing, probably, that people are going to say,

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: oh my God, look at this person.

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: We must keep them around, even though the strategy says not to.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But you can have a social game that's so bad that people are like,

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_02]: we have to get rid of this person.

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: John didn't have that.

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not what I'm saying at all.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Even as he was saying he had good social relationships with people.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It just wasn't enough to save him from the strategy that was going on.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, the sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat.

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And Jeff Probst said in the on fire podcast, I referenced this earlier,

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: that he thinks people saw John as this incredible storyteller

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: who could win the game, making him a threat.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Jeff is overthinking it and the other players didn't go that deep.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty much none of them even knew who he was.

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So the only thing they could judge was their own interaction with him

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and what he told them.

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And just as confirmation of this, Mike Bloom tweeted out an image

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: that said that showed someone saying, what the blank is that?

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And the caption was the Gatta tribe when John describes his podcast.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Sierra quote tweeted it and said facts.

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So if John was a threat, it wasn't for that reason.

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It you know, they didn't know who he was.

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And he though he did he did have some great commentary on the mat right off the rip.

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's always good when you can get that sound bite back right at Jeff.

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, yeah, look what I just did.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sure that that made a few people pause and realize he's quick on his feet.

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But who knows if it went any further than that?

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I wouldn't have known John going out there.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_07]: I the first time I learned about John and him being the whole thing,

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_07]: like the whole what he did was I got a text from someone being like,

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_07]: why did you tell me John?

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_07]: John Lovett was on Survivors like I number one didn't know.

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Number two, the fuck is that?

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to admit as much as you know, as as involved as I am in politics,

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, when when someone said the name.

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: After I realized it wasn't John Lovett's.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was like, OK, that name sounds familiar.

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've heard the I've heard the name of the podcast.

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But as many podcasts as I listen to, I don't listen to.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I listen to, you know, maybe one or two podcasts that deal with political topics.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I frequently guest on one that deals with sometimes with political topics.

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't listen to that podcast.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so I certainly wouldn't have known him by side either.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. Yeah.

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I consider myself like I pay attention to politics a lot.

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_07]: No clue.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_07]: My bad.

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry, John.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_07]: You're great, though.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Stuff that I hear now.

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I've listened.

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_07]: See, it's great advertising for his podcast.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I feel like now that I now that John's been on it,

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_07]: like the stuff that I do listen to politically, like I do here.

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, the pod.

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_07]: The pod saved bros.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm like, oh, yeah.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Cool.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And there was plenty going on with with Pod Save America while he was out on the island.

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_02]: There was lots of big discussions and arguments going on with them.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_02]: He was probably better off on the island during that time, honestly.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, getting away from that, it's.

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, since we're still in the sixth rule talking about threats,

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying that John wasn't the threat.

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Jessica, like you said, he showed he was smart on his feet.

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And we discussed in the second rule that he was seen as perhaps being too strategic.

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And we saw that on TV as well.

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: After he tried to get Sam to turn on Anika,

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Sam said in confessional that John was very smart and a strategist.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, that happened after I believe the vote was locked in.

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think Sam just suddenly kind of light bulb moment came to that idea.

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was something he'd already been thinking, because, again,

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: remember what I mentioned earlier about the tribe blaming John for pulling Andy away.

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think more importantly than John being specifically a big threat.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_02]: This gets back, Jake, to what you were saying earlier.

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: He was seen as more of a threat specifically than Andy.

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: If the other four already considered themselves an alliance,

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: which I think it's clear they did,

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: then the choice came down to John or Andy, like we were saying.

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And remember that Rachel said she didn't see Andy as a strategist.

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So that reduced his threat level.

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, after what happened with Andy at the challenge,

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_02]: as John told Dalton Ross, Andy is now weakened in front of the whole tribe.

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_02]: At that moment, everybody is recognizing that Andy is basically someone you're

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: either going to carry along or get rid of, but isn't really a threat anymore.

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So in comparison, even not knowing much about John outside the game,

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: he was still seen as more of a threat than Andy.

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, we can move to the seventh rule,

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_02]: which covers idols and advantages in game mechanics.

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, John didn't find any clues or keys or boxes within boxes within boxes.

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So many boxes.

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So many boxes.

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I said at the time, you know, when one of them,

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was Gabe, was pulling the box out of the ground.

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: If this had been Australian Survivor, he'd just rip the lid off.

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, in Australian Survivor, they did that.

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_02]: They couldn't get the key, so they just ripped the lid off the box.

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, OK, so but but John didn't have that opportunity.

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: He did have a decision to make about the shot in the dark.

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And he explained in his interviews that he figured his plan to get Sam and Sierra

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_02]: on his and Andy's side to vote out Anika had about a 20 percent chance of working,

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: which is a little higher than using the shot.

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not clear to me how he came up with that number out of like pulling it out of thin air,

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_02]: considering that he said in interviews that the women were seeming to get pretty tight

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_02]: in addition to having the three groups of two, which we talked about earlier.

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, he he also told Rob he knows he was the target before he put Anika's name out there.

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It just seems to me that the odds were slimmer than the one in six chance he'd have

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: with a shot in the dark. And, you know, Jake, you put him at a 15 percent chance of being successful

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: if if, you know, he went, you know, bat guano crazy on on Andy in response.

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's also pretty close to shot in the dark level there.

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I mean, looking at the numbers, I did I did hear those comments about

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_07]: the considerations of Anika versus playing shot in the dark.

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, just play it. I think honestly, I think there's also a strategic benefit to no longer

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_07]: having shot in the dark moving down the line in the game, I think having the option makes you more

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_07]: more unreliable to your alliance because you do have the opportunity to not vote.

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_07]: If you don't have the shot in the dark.

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_07]: You're voting barring some other.

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. But.

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Like because after I played mine, I was it was kind of like a weight off my shoulders.

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, oh, yeah, I don't have it, but there's not much sense of security in having it anyway.

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. I think if especially in this circumstance, I think play it.

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_07]: But then even the benefit down the line, I think is worthwhile playing it regardless

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_07]: of the outcome of shot in the dark. Yeah. Obviously, he did a certain outcome here.

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, we can move to Appendix A, which is about the players keeping

[01:09:48] [SPEAKER_02]: their end goals in mind when voting. And we talk about voting out the weak,

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_02]: then the strong, then the weak, then the strong. We saw a lot of debate involving

[01:09:55] [SPEAKER_02]: whether the tribe should keep Andy for his physical strength and challenges compared to John.

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And Andy did show strength in the challenge with the chests and helping to pull up the boat

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and others, you know, talk to him about now. Admittedly, they were trying to make him feel

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_02]: better, but said he provided bamboo and shelter, et cetera. And right there is a perfect example of

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: the strong versus weak situation. But of course, we here on this podcast know it goes deeper than

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that because it's not just about challenge strength, which is one reason there was a

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: debate within the four. In addition to being physically stronger, Andy was seen as being

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_02]: a potential stronger ally because he'd be theoretically easier to control. Now, earlier,

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, we talked a little bit about him being possibly a weaker ally. But from John's standpoint,

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: at least, like he said to Mike Bloom that Andy blew up in front of the whole cast. So he's going

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_02]: to have to be loyal to his tribe mates. Quote, everybody else has already seen he's unreliable.

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_02]: He'll be in your debt. And then on the flip side, John noted that

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_02]: John himself was more strategic and others tribes could work with him. So from a unity or alliance

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: standpoint, John was also weaker in terms of what the other players on his tribe thought.

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but it is it does come with that risk, because if you believe that Andy is going to now

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: owe you his loyalty, you better hope that that loyalty sticks around and you better make him

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_01]: feel like he's really part of the group moving forward. Yeah, and there's those journeys and

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: when there's the merge, because otherwise, if he's still feeling like he's on the outs,

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: he is not going to be so strong in that group and that alliance as you hope he's going to

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_07]: be might just end up flipping. And I also disagree with John where he's kind of exposed himself to

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_07]: the other tribes. Like obviously they all saw the blow up. That's no mistaking that. But seeing

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_07]: something on a mat and then spending a couple hours with the person having conversations.

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_07]: If you hit a merger swap or two wildly different things like I remember in my season, like people

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_07]: that I didn't see prior to the merge, like I had certain perceptions of them. And then you get to

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_07]: the merge and you're like, like, I know I had this conversation like early on in Bella. We were

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_07]: saying, oh, drew, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, you know, because he's acting a certain way

[01:12:16] [SPEAKER_07]: on the mat. But then I got to the merge and like, oh, I've I've really liked through like Drew's

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_02]: except for one or maybe we didn't so much, you know, well, later strategic things. But in terms

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_07]: of like, yeah, but in terms of John saying, oh, he's exposed himself to everyone else. No one

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_07]: else is going to want to work with him down the line. I don't think that's necessarily true.

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right. Yeah. As well. Again, what matters is what the tribe thought was true. Right. Yeah.

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. I don't know if it was the best strategic move for them. I'm happy we get to see more of

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_07]: obviously, but right. It'll be right for someone wrong for someone else.

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. All right. With that, it is about time to wrap things up.

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_07]: So, Jake, what are your final thoughts on John? I you know what, John? He didn't do a lot wrong.

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_07]: There's like he I think the train left the station without without him. And I don't think there's

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_07]: much he could have done at that point. I mean, I think that's my final analysis. I thought John

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_07]: was obviously very funny. FN podcast host. So it's my favorite line. No offense to anyone on

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_07]: this one currently. But I thought that was funny. We're missing out. But we got we got a taste and

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm excited to see more of the people who we maybe didn't get to see too much in this episode.

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Jessica, what are your thoughts? Well, John Pod Save America. But John couldn't save

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: himself on survive. So that's unfortunate for John. I know. And I feel bad. But I do think

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: that John had what it takes to really do well in this game. But it's just a matter of I think,

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Jake, you said it so poignantly. You've got three days and three days to either make or break

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_01]: your connections with these individuals that you're playing the game with,

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and the ability to connect with them in a way that's going to make them want to keep you as

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: opposed to looking at you and questioning whether or not they can. And I do think that we're looking

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: at a group of six people, and they have to weigh what each person brings to the table.

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And right now, do I think that this group made the best decision by taking Andy over John? I'm

[01:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: with you, Jake. I feel I'm a little I'm questioning that decision because I do feel like there's

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: something to be said about whether or not Andy will maintain loyalty to them down the road if

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: he's already feeling like he's on the outs, where someone like John, he's might be an unknown, but

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you necessarily have to worry about his loyalty, you might have to worry about his

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_01]: strategic ability, but not necessarily his loyalty moving forward. And so I do think that there is

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: some issue with the choice that was made by the group. But John was in a situation where he had to

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_01]: work with that group. And unfortunately, he found himself in a spot where he was immediately tied

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: to Andy and not really necessarily connecting on the same level as the other four people were

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: connecting with each other. And it put him in a really bad spot. I do think that there's something

[01:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: to be said about the numbers that he went through and who is connecting with who. But when you come

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to that point where you realize it's six people only, you got to get in right away. And those are

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: the moments that matter. And if you don't get in right away, you're going to be on the outs right

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: away. And unfortunately for John, this is where we found him. Before I get to my conclusion, Jessica,

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you just said something and Jake, but I, it occurred to me and I didn't think of it earlier.

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_02]: These players saw what happened last season, in at least the first half of the season.

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot of discussion in the after the first episode when they voted out Jelinski.

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the very next challenge, they were like, oh, we could have really used a tall guy

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: who had these physical characteristics and got it up. I do wonder how much that played into it,

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, because there was a lot of discussion about that at the time when people were like,

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_02]: no, you should have gotten rid of Bhanu. And so now I'm not equating John with Bhanu in any way.

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying, you know, when it comes to some of the physical,

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I do wonder if that played in their thoughts. Yes. But anyway, John found himself on a tribe

[01:16:36] [SPEAKER_02]: where being 41 made him the oldest person there. While that didn't help him integrate,

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: it also wasn't a key factor. Just look at Sue on the other tribe. Andy and John both introduced

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: themselves as kind of introverted nerds of the tribe and more or less naturally came together.

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Further sparked by Andy pulling John aside. Meanwhile, the other four gravitated to each

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: other in two duos and each seemed to have their concerns about John and Andy.

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_02]: While the other players didn't really know who John was in terms of his full history,

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_02]: he did introduce himself as a podcaster. And right there that told him he was obviously

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_02]: incredibly smart. I mean, that's clear. There's no other way that could go.

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. But more seriously, I do think for the other players just talking to John as he said

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: to himself or as he said himself, I don't know that there's a way for me to play the game without

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: coming across as strategic and smart. They saw that. While what they saw of Andy even before

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: the challenge did not make him seem like a strategist, it did, however, seem like he could

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: help them in physical challenges and they might be better able to control. I do think there were

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: opportunities for John to break through. He acknowledged as much when it came to Annika

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: earlier. Even more than that, players can't assume that just because people aren't strategizing with

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you, that means they aren't strategizing at all. Something was clearly going on with the other

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_02]: four and based even on what John said, they either had a plan to target him before the challenge

[01:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: or were so closely aligned in thought that they could put such a plan into effect mere moments

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: afterwards. Through the strategic and social dynamics of the first few days, it came down to

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: either Andy or John. Andy had more physical strength. Andy seemed less strategic. Andy

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: would theoretically be in their debt and wouldn't have anywhere else to go. John's tribe had the

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: choice of love it or leave it and they chose leave it and that is why John lost. Wow. That was pro.

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_07]: That was some pro. That was some pro stuff right there. I'm an effing podcaster.

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: There you go. That was good. Great. Oh, I do love that.

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: All right. Well, before we get to our predictions for next episode, I want to remind everyone that

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_02]: the rules we just discussed are available in poster and t-shirt or poster on a t-shirt and

[01:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: checklist on a t-shirt form. Again, go to robheswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed and you can get all of those.

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You should buy them. Yes. So Jessica, in the meantime, again before we get to predictions,

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: where can people find all of us? I always forget the order of things around here. So yes, you can

[01:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: certainly find me. I'm at JessicaLewis89. I'm also and that's on Twitter, Instagram. I'm at

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_01]: JessicaLewis6789. I spend less time on Instagram. I just basically steal all the content that David

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Bloomberg puts out. So thank you for that, David Bloomberg, because David Bloomberg, as many of you

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: likely know, is all over social media so much so that he has his very own linked tree that lists

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_01]: out everything that he does. So you can find all of the incredible content that he does create

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: on so many platforms. So David, tell them where they can find you. Yes, I have the link tree at

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: linkedry slash davidbloomberg with a dot before the ee in the URL. You can find me more directly

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_02]: on Twitter and Blue Sky is at David Bloomberg on Threads is at David Bloomberg TV. And I'm on the

[01:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: video platforms YouTube, TikTok, Instagram is at David Bloomberg TV. I've been posting three or

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: more videos per day all summer long. Right now I'm of course posting clips from Survivor and Big

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Brother, plus a few from other shows like The Anonymous and The Circle. In addition, be sure

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that you're watching or listening to the Big Brother version of Why Blank Lost, where we have

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I have Big Brother 21's Ovi Kabir as my co-host. We still have a few weeks of double duty for me

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_02]: in that regard there. Jake, where can people find you? On Instagram, I'm Jake O. Kane and on Twitter

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm like Jake O underscore Kane, I think. You know, you have to switch it up. That's right.

[01:21:14] [SPEAKER_07]: That's right. David, I gotta appreciate your social media that I am still tagged when I broke Jeff's

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_07]: toys. I like that I'm still pinned up there. So thank you for that. You are. You are. That was one of

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: the, you know, the most viewed that I have at least. I think it's on, is it on Instagram where

[01:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: it might be Instagram or TikTok? Instagram. Yeah, there's Instagram. There are 2.2 million views of

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you breaking the challenge. Yeah. And look at you Jake. So and then, you know, there's probably a

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: lot on YouTube and TikTok as well. That's not as easy to see. But yeah, you're still pinned up there.

[01:22:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't break anything today. So I consider this an accomplishment, getting through a Survivor

[01:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: related thing and not breaking anything. We're not done yet because we still have predictions.

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh gosh. So hopefully you don't break anything in predictions. I don't like predictions. I know,

[01:22:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll go first. And so the previews didn't give us much. There is of course more focus on Andy

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and on the other tribe. Rome is a lot. Rome is fine. Yeah, I'm really not sure what's going on in the third

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: tribe. I'm going to guess they're safe. I think Lavo, so that's the red tribe, will lose the

[01:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: immunity challenge. And you know, everybody in RHAP is going to be like, no! It seems though

[01:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: like Asia, Teenie, Keyshawn and Saul are all on the same page. There was a secret scene in which

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Saul tried to tell Rome that he was drawing attention by leaving camp, but Rome totally

[01:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: misinterpreted the gesture. Saul's trying to be nice to him and then Rome is like, oh, why are you

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_02]: telling me this? You must be after me. And then went to talk to Genevieve about it.

[01:23:12] [SPEAKER_02]: That plus what we saw in the first episode tells me Rome and Genevieve are tight.

[01:23:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Jessica, I told you I would not predict that Rome is going. And that's because we already saw

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Asia is worried he might have the immunity idol. Mm hmm. He's just very smart. And yeah, they're

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, there's a lot of very smart people on that tribe. So I think what they're going to do

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: is flush the idol and vote out Genevieve. Genevieve.

[01:23:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I really like her in that secret scene. I liked her in that secret scene. I thought she was

[01:23:53] [SPEAKER_07]: funny. Sorry, Jessica, but I like that. I don't want to see her go. But I had when we did our

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: initial podcast, there was this whole thing about Genevieve because she decided that rather than

[01:24:04] [SPEAKER_01]: continue to practice making fire, she was going to play a video game for 40 hours or something.

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, Genevieve, like, what are you doing? Genevieve, like, why would you do that?

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_07]: To be fair, it's a very fun video game. Oh, I have done at least 40 hours into it.

[01:24:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Baldur's Gate. To the detriment of learning to make fire? Well, it wasn't out when I was going

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_07]: out to play Survivor. So I don't know. I might I might have done the same thing as Genevieve

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: had it been out at the time. Well, I think I think differently. I think I'm going to go back to

[01:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we're going to have a repeat Yellow Tribe kind of situation happening because I know

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: it's been it's been years. Right. This just keeps this is on repeat. It's almost like a cut and paste

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: response to things that we have seen previously where the tribe makes a decision and I think

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: they've made the decision for the correct reason. And then they realize the next time around,

[01:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: they're like, crap, maybe we shouldn't have made that decision, that I think we should have done

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: something differently. And I feel like we're going to be looking at the Yellow Tribe going back to

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: tribal council. And I do think, unfortunately, that's going to leave Andy right back where he

[01:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: was before. And I think Andy's going to be going home. That's my that's my pick. I think.

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_07]: I agree. I think I think God is going to lose again, I think. But I don't I don't think it

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_07]: will be. I don't think it will be Andy. I. OK. I don't think it'll be Andy. I do. I feel like

[01:25:40] [SPEAKER_07]: either Andy's going to find something or Andy's on a trajectory for someone who is. It's weird

[01:25:47] [SPEAKER_07]: because I feel like we know there's two pairs between Sam and Sierra being viewed as a pair

[01:25:53] [SPEAKER_07]: and Rachel and Anika. So in my mind, I'm kind of thinking maybe I'm getting into like

[01:26:00] [SPEAKER_07]: yet a little too much. I think between the two pairs, Rachel was shown more between her and

[01:26:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Anika and then Sam was shown between more between him and Sierra. So I'm like going back and forth

[01:26:12] [SPEAKER_07]: between Anika and Sierra here on who I think because I don't know. I don't think he's going.

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I the logic would say he's going, but based on I think I think he's going to find something

[01:26:26] [SPEAKER_07]: or I think that someone like Sam or someone like Rachel is going to be like, you know what?

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I can use this. Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense if they recognize that they're in duos.

[01:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And John also said to Sam, watch out for the women getting together.

[01:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Then maybe it's Sam and Sierra pick him up. Yeah, no. So unfortunately, as much as I love her,

[01:26:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to say Anika just because if Sam's the glue guy is Rachel the glue girl.

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, he did say that. Yeah, I would. I would guess Anika.

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_07]: OK, I could be very wrong. He might be gone. It might be a very boring episode and he might just

[01:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: it might be a foregone conclusion. I think if I had to pick between you two, Jake,

[01:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I would side with your prediction. Oh, I just think you're right. You know that. Sorry. And

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Jessica, we know how much you love doing predictions. So that is fair. I know. Yeah.

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Do not pick correctly. So congratulations, Andy. I guess you are not going home.

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, this is very now. Andy's going to go home. He's going home now. Yeah.

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Damn butterfly effects. I have to control these so much better.

[01:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Gosh, I'm so sorry, survivor players. All right. Well, as we wrap up here,

[01:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to encourage people to check out the RGP patron program at Rob has website dot com

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: slash patron and get access to all the special podcasts that are put out just for patrons.

[01:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Plus Facebook groups and discord. So, you know, you can help support shows like ours

[01:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and everything on the network by becoming a patron that Rob has a website dot com slash patron.

[01:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, make sure you're subscribed to all the RGP survivor podcast by going

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: to the newly updated and rebranded website. We know survivor dot com. So you go there,

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you'll you'll see all the different podcasts you can you can subscribe, you know, according to

[01:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever service you use and you'll find all the great survivor content there like us,

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: the know it all's the BNB Survivor International. There's a bunch of podcasters there. So with that,

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to thank some people. Yes. All right. All of those podcasters out there want

[01:28:57] [SPEAKER_01]: to thank everyone at RGP for the incredible work that they do. Yes, they know survivor

[01:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and they know reality TV like you don't even know. Scott St. Pierre, we really appreciate

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: all of the editing that you create with all of the content that you put together. And Jessica

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Sterling, thank you to as well. Also producing, editing and everyone at the RGP staff and team

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that makes all of this possible. So we really do appreciate the work that you do. None of this

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: would be possible without the people behind the scenes putting it together. So thank you so much.

[01:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: We need effing producers and effing editors and graphic artists and all of those people.

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. And we also need people like, I don't know, effing guests. So thank you,

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Jake, for being here and joining us today. It's been such a great time getting to chat with you.

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate your insight. Lovely, lovely time. And I hope to see you come back and join

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_07]: us again sometime. Oh, my God. Yeah, guys, thank you so much for having me. I've never been called

[01:29:54] [SPEAKER_07]: an effing guest before. I've been called an effing lawyer, but you know, like it's nice for

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_07]: the mix up. So thank you. But thank you guys for having me on. Like, this is a lot of fun.

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I love the podcast. I hope no one gets voted out next week. For their own sake. You know what I mean?

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Right. That'd be great. In a perfect world. Yes. Thank you, Jake. It was a lot of fun.

[01:30:15] [SPEAKER_02]: We enjoyed having you help us welcome Survivor back. Jessica, thanks for another great episode.

[01:30:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Next week, we will welcome back returning guest Lindsey Carmine. And in the meantime,

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: of course, watch for me and Ovi talking about Big Brother. You know, we had one that was that we just

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: finished yesterday. And so there was that Y Blank loss. And then we have a double eviction coming up.

[01:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So next week, next Friday, my day is going to consist of podcasts about three different people.

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, you know, that'll be a lot of fun. But you are an effing podcaster. So deal with it.

[01:30:57] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. That's right. There you go. All right. We will see everyone back here in a week.

[01:31:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks a lot. Bye.

[01:31:05] [SPEAKER_04]: If you lost Survivor and you're feeling down, David and Jessica will turn it around.

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_04]: They'll break down the rules and they'll show you how. You played yourself and got voted out.

[01:31:19] [SPEAKER_04]: This is Y Blank loss. This is Y Blank loss.

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Baby, this is Y Blank loss.