Why ___ Lost Ep 11 | Survivor 46

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[00:01:32] It's a big week when RHAP is on the road in Chicago check out my live show from Chicago

[00:01:39] That's gonna be up on Thursday

[00:01:41] Wednesday night Shannon Gus is gonna be alive with you with Kelly Wentworth after

[00:01:46] Survivor and we previewed the Dandy finale with dealer know the island host Joe Manganiello all right here on RHAP

[00:01:54] We know reality TV

[00:02:01] David and Jessica will turn it around

[00:02:04] They'll break down the rules and I'll show you how you played yourself and got voted out

[00:02:12] This is why blank lost

[00:02:14] This is why blank lost

[00:02:16] This is why blank lost

[00:02:18] Baby this is why blank lost

[00:02:20] This is why blank lost

[00:02:22] This is why blank lost

[00:02:30] Welcome back to why blank lost I'm David Bloomberg and it was so much fun to watch this week's survivor episode with about

[00:02:37] 950 of my closest friends in Chicago. I know I'm so jealous

[00:02:43] Yes, yes, and now it's time for me to introduce my co-host or should I?

[00:02:51] Hold on I have to decide oh

[00:02:55] I'm not sure if I want to

[00:02:58] Let me think about it, but well really I'm really interested

[00:03:05] Part of this is that I mean you and I have we've got we have history right we could do rock-paper-scissors

[00:03:12] Who am I gonna do rock-paper-scissors with oh?

[00:03:15] Well, okay, then I guess I will and of course that would be Jessica Lewis

[00:03:20] And listen we all know how I feel about rocks

[00:03:26] Okay, so don't bother to do paper cuz you will never do rock

[00:03:31] Unbelievable well yes, so thank you for allowing me to join you

[00:03:35] Because that would have been really awkward you would have been doing this all by yourself

[00:03:38] Maybe would have just shoved me off the screen or made me sit you

[00:03:42] I'm not sure but now we don't have to find that out. That's right. That's right

[00:03:47] Well I'd like to start by thanking every single person who said hello to me talked about the podcast with me

[00:03:53] And you know said they were a fan

[00:03:56] It really does mean a lot, and I appreciate it. You know maybe more than you all know

[00:04:01] Especially with this being the first event in the new era that my health has allowed me to attend

[00:04:06] I'm so glad you got to go yeah now lots of people asked of you about you

[00:04:11] You were definitely missed and

[00:04:13] You were there in spirit because I wore the socks that a listener had sent us or sent me a while ago with your face

[00:04:21] on them

[00:04:22] Now there was no way for me to show these when I was briefly on stage

[00:04:26] During the commercial break because no one would have been able to see them, but anyone you know who came up to me

[00:04:31] I I tried to mention that and I did take a

[00:04:35] Love that you wore my face on your socks when you went there

[00:04:39] Thank you for that a little that means so much to me. I would have loved to have attended, but as

[00:04:45] You are very well aware. I had just traveled for a

[00:04:50] conference for my job and then for the wedding for Adam and

[00:04:54] Then it was like I have a crazy trial starting in June. So it was just like so many things to try to

[00:05:01] Cram into a very tight space and unfortunately it just didn't work

[00:05:05] But I am so glad I was there in spirit, and I'm sorry that I missed everyone

[00:05:08] I'm sure it was a phenomenal time

[00:05:10] I've seen lots of pictures and videos and everyone seemed to just be having an incredible incredible time together

[00:05:17] So that's always nice to see everyone coming together like that. Yeah. Yeah, I I do plan to post pictures on social media

[00:05:24] I posted a couple so far but more will be coming. I just had to concentrate on the podcast before doing

[00:05:32] So, so yeah, I don't want to spend you know too much time talking about the Chicago trip

[00:05:37] well, okay, I do but we have a podcast to get to and

[00:05:41] You know, I also do want to say all the players who were there were great with their time and talking to different people

[00:05:49] One of the most adorable things I saw was at the Cubs game

[00:05:52] There were a group of kids a big group of kids sitting right next to us in a big section

[00:05:57] And some of them recognized a few of the survivor players and they came over in a couple groups to take pictures of them and

[00:06:04] Yeah, the players were so open and willing to take pictures and the kids were just ecstatic

[00:06:08] So this is the next generation of survivor fans here. Yes, and it's so nice when

[00:06:15] You can feel that like kind of warm and fuzzy response

[00:06:19] I know that as a survivor player

[00:06:21] I'm always willing if someone says hey gonna take your photo absolutely 100% because when I see

[00:06:27] Survivor players, I'm like, can I take the picture? Yeah

[00:06:32] Like I'm I am that person as well

[00:06:34] And so I have to remind myself sometimes like maybe not so much with the photos

[00:06:39] Because it's like whatever event I go to it's like I don't want to I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable

[00:06:44] But at the same time like I'm a huge fan still and so I definitely want to be part of that as well

[00:06:50] So I totally get it and fully support it. Yeah

[00:06:53] All right moving to Venus there were a lot of Venus fans

[00:06:58] while also being a lot of people who saw that

[00:07:01] Venus maybe hadn't been playing a great

[00:07:03] Game of survivor and there was of course an intersection of both because some people were her fans for her personality

[00:07:10] straightforwardness mess and fun, but also realized that without spoiling the rest of this podcast her gameplay overall

[00:07:18] perhaps

[00:07:19] Was not a winning

[00:07:21] game plan and

[00:07:24] Yes, I was wrong that there you know that she would be a zero vote finalist

[00:07:29] But my biggest emphasis as you'll recall was in saying she would not win

[00:07:35] So gotta find a way to be right there well, yeah, obviously, you know, I mean I wasn't with Erica and Gabler

[00:07:41] So when I made that same very definitive statement, oh, I know

[00:07:46] So I you know, I was trying to read the edit and also some outside the game activity for reasons

[00:07:54] You know that I was pretty certain of the finalist part and

[00:07:59] as I

[00:08:01] discussed

[00:08:03] previously I

[00:08:04] did not think Venus ever found out the truth in the game about the way certain things happen because

[00:08:11] Not finding out the truth would explain why she still seemed to have misconceptions about what happened

[00:08:19] You know within the game

[00:08:21] If she didn't spend time in Ponderosa without with the other jurors finding out information as it turned out

[00:08:28] She did go to Ponderosa. But as she said in her interviews, it was not a happy time for her at all

[00:08:35] the other jurors

[00:08:37] Basically didn't talk to each other

[00:08:39] So it ends up having essentially the same effect that she still yeah not get that

[00:08:48] Filled in or you know, they didn't compare notes on what happened

[00:08:53] Yeah

[00:08:53] and I I feel like

[00:08:55] This is a component now that we don't get to see what happens at Ponderosa is is a little bit

[00:09:02] Showed us that one

[00:09:03] Well, we could have seen something right there there might have been something and if anything I can remember from

[00:09:10] my season there were

[00:09:12] interviews conducted of people who are already at Ponderosa who are speaking about me and

[00:09:19] You can gain a little bit more of an insight information what they their thoughts are about this person

[00:09:26] I learned some things about myself that others thought about me when I because you walk in there and you're not sure you've just been

[00:09:33] Playing a game with people for a million dollars and you've done some stuff

[00:09:37] that's probably pissed a few of them off and now you have to be like

[00:09:40] Hi, I get to stay with you and like yay and it can be uncomfortable

[00:09:46] so I I feel for her that there were a lot of what felt like

[00:09:52] Uncomfortable moments based upon her descriptions and that she didn't find it to be a space that you can relax

[00:09:59] That was the one thing I can say Ponderosa did bring some closure but frustration at the same time

[00:10:05] So that's just unfortunate. Yeah, I wasn't able to have that

[00:10:07] I remember your Ponderosa that they had like a scene of you and Sunday

[00:10:12] Like I don't know if it was natural that you two came together to talk about or it was encouraged by production

[00:10:19] No, it was I will say that was what I really appreciated so much about

[00:10:24] Ponderosa is the only time

[00:10:27] Anything was structured where they wanted to get a particular shot

[00:10:31] Was when I was running on the beach?

[00:10:33] Because they were gonna do or like we're gonna go over with a helicopter

[00:10:36] And we want you to just be running on the beach because I had been running like every day and so I was like, okay

[00:10:41] So I went running on the beach

[00:10:43] but otherwise it was very natural and

[00:10:46] If they wanted to talk with you all of a sudden they would just kind of like walk up and they're like hey

[00:10:50] What are you doing? And then you just have like a conversation

[00:10:53] It there was nothing forced if you didn't want to hang out with anyone

[00:10:57] You didn't have to and Sunday and I really did bond in Ponderosa

[00:11:01] We were able to work through a lot of the issues that we had

[00:11:05] In the game and it felt so nice to have those moments with her out there

[00:11:09] And I really am happy that I was able to experience that because you don't want to end a game

[00:11:14] Right like that on a bad note. And so to not have that for Venus

[00:11:20] I think is is frustrating for her. I'm sure because you probably want to be able to find some closure

[00:11:26] Yeah

[00:11:27] I mean I do wonder if there had been cameras there would things have been a little different or would they still have been?

[00:11:32] Doesn't matter but we'll never know that's a fair point. Yeah, I'm curious. Yeah

[00:11:37] Now at dinner when I was at dinner just before going to watch the show. I was eating with

[00:11:44] Several people as it turned out

[00:11:47] Yes

[00:11:48] Corey B

[00:11:49] Predicted that Venus would get voted out because this was the first time

[00:11:55] Venus had been at a watch party with her season 46 castmates and

[00:12:02] Her parents were there too

[00:12:04] and

[00:12:06] That got me thinking

[00:12:09] That

[00:12:10] Going out at that point could indeed also explain the lack of Ponderosa information like we just discussed

[00:12:18] and because of that

[00:12:21] Because of what Corey B said and because of you know that thought process I went into the show

[00:12:26] Believing that he was right and he was so shout out Corey B. Yeah, I told him that in person too

[00:12:33] Now speaking of predictions we have to acknowledge and I literally have to because yeah, I was told we have to

[00:12:41] Uh-huh

[00:12:43] That our guests a nice reminder on yes

[00:12:49] That our guest last week dr. Jeremy Faust his prediction last week was correct

[00:12:54] Okay, he had an 86% chance of being right since his pick was literally anyone but Maria

[00:13:01] So I am absolutely closing that loophole going forward no more of that not no more no more group

[00:13:08] Decisions no, yeah pick more than one. All right. Well, I I will say

[00:13:13] Dr. Jeremy Faust did a phenomenal job with us last week. I was very excited to have him join us my mother

[00:13:22] Was like he was great

[00:13:23] and I always love it when I get I get my mother's opinions because she she listens to us at all every week and

[00:13:30] Enjoys it very much and does have some colorful commentary at times about both players and guests

[00:13:37] And so it's always nice to hear what my mother has to say about all of that. And so she was a huge fan

[00:13:43] So, thank you so much to

[00:13:45] Jeremy for coming out and well, I mean it should just say coming on right? Yeah with us. So that was great

[00:13:52] All right. Well

[00:13:54] Moving forward with Venus here

[00:13:56] She told Gordon Holmes that few players can pinpoint the exact moment where their game went down the toilet, but she knew

[00:14:04] As I've mentioned for the past two weeks now

[00:14:06] Even in situations where there was one key moment in time where a player should have done something different

[00:14:11] We have to remember that there's almost always a much bigger series of events or actions that led to it

[00:14:17] This is especially true this week because the situation Venus was in was

[00:14:22] Different from the ones Hunter and Tiffany had been in we'll look at everything else surrounding that decision

[00:14:27] By following our usual path of comparing how she played to my rules for winning

[00:14:31] They originally wrote way back after season one and have been updating ever since

[00:14:37] Using all the non-spoiler information available to us from what we saw on TV interviews social media and secret scenes. I emphasized non-spoiler

[00:14:46] There was nobody there who told me anything. I want to make that very clear

[00:14:50] So, oh, that's well, and I do think that a lot of people are very good about that. Yes

[00:14:55] Yes, no one because you don't want to be spoiled you don't want to spoil it for someone so that's that's good

[00:15:01] I just want to make sure

[00:15:02] Listeners and viewers understand that you know, just because your pictures of me with certain people doesn't mean that I know anything

[00:15:10] Right anything special. I know lots but not

[00:15:14] Oh, yes, here we go. Yes, David is always right. So don't know last

[00:15:20] All right

[00:15:22] The newest version of the rules can be found at Rob has a website comm slash YX lost feed go and click on the link bubble

[00:15:28] for survivor rules, but

[00:15:31] Before we address how Venus did in terms of the rules

[00:15:34] We always have some other things to discuss from the episode

[00:15:39] And the first is something I already alluded to in the opening and that is Maria's decision

[00:15:45] According to Venus it went on even longer than we saw and as much as I like Maria

[00:15:52] this was in words that Q would say a

[00:15:56] big mistake

[00:15:58] Yeah, this was bad. This is very bad

[00:16:01] I mean both in terms of who she chose for the reward and how she went about it. Yes

[00:16:07] Yeah, at least a couple other players even noted that she shouldn't have prefaced her decision by saying she was picking the people who needed

[00:16:13] It the most and then picking Q even Q had a confessional laughing about it. I know he was like I just

[00:16:20] What did he was like? I'm the richest man on the island right now

[00:16:24] Think that was a scene but yeah, yes, but it was it was very on point. Yes

[00:16:31] I mean Q was already in her pocket. So

[00:16:34] She didn't need to bring him

[00:16:35] She should have wanted to keep Liz on her side or at least make Liz think she was on her side

[00:16:41] You know plus after everything with Liz last time it should have been a clear choice

[00:16:47] But of course nothing in survivor is a totally clear choice

[00:16:52] You know, no and I will say if I can just jump in here for two seconds to just about Liz because I know that this

[00:16:57] has been a

[00:16:59] discussion a debate we might have already mentioned some of this about the food, but I

[00:17:04] do think that

[00:17:07] Nobody owes anyone anything right on the island, right?

[00:17:10] And so whatever decision you're going to make needs to be made for whatever reason makes the most sense for that player

[00:17:16] right, so you can't be making choices based upon I

[00:17:20] Feel bad for this person because they made me feel bad

[00:17:23] Previously because they didn't get to eat and we all know Liz is struggling with with food because of the allergies

[00:17:28] But again, that was Liz's choice to right taking this game, right?

[00:17:32] So I do think that there is something to be said about finding a reason for making your choices

[00:17:38] But if the reason is going to be those who need it most well, then that needs to be the decision that follows

[00:17:44] You can't then change it on the fly and then do rock-paper-scissors

[00:17:49] And remove people from the equation who clearly need food more than Q

[00:17:53] So I do think overall just a bad

[00:17:57] I mean those those moments and survivor are always uncomfortable and then when you add to the

[00:18:03] Uncomfortableness by doing what she did. Yeah

[00:18:06] Yeah, that's that's not good. Yeah, I understand she and Venus did not get along fine

[00:18:11] They just pick pick Ben and Liz and be done with yeah

[00:18:15] Over and done right, you know by taking so long and then leaving it up to like you said rock-paper-scissors

[00:18:21] To quote rush if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice

[00:18:27] Yes, that is completely correct

[00:18:31] David you're right and so is

[00:18:34] the late great Neil Peart

[00:18:37] Switching it to a different original SIGA person Ben talked on the episode about how a group

[00:18:43] Who will do one vote together probably won't be the same group who does a second vote together

[00:18:48] It's been a constant shift since the beginning of the merge and while that's true

[00:18:53] It also hides the SIGA 3 who have been doing votes together. Uh-huh

[00:19:00] Yeah, you know at least so far. So it's it's one thing to say. Oh everybody's voting differently

[00:19:07] But are they I mean, yeah this time he didn't technically vote the same way as them

[00:19:12] But he was in on it, you know, but I was very confused with his vote choice

[00:19:17] I mean, it was just a I think it was a backup backup vote, you know

[00:19:22] yeah, if an idol is played and a

[00:19:26] shot in the dark hits or something like that or

[00:19:30] You know this way you don't have to worry about it since they had the numbers right, right?

[00:19:35] Yeah, no, I I do think that the voting choices

[00:19:40] Have been strange

[00:19:43] As far as

[00:19:45] who is being focused on and the reasons why and then the

[00:19:51] Final decision that is being made, but I realize we're dwindling in numbers as far as who's left

[00:19:56] But yeah, yeah, the SIGA 3 is definitely still the SIGA 3. Yeah

[00:20:02] And the third SIGA is of course Charlie

[00:20:05] For most of the last few seasons we have discussed how players need to precisely time when to take out the big threats

[00:20:11] And Charlie is going through that exact process

[00:20:17] You know, maybe he's heard us talk about it even if yeah, even if Maria had not won immunity and

[00:20:25] Venus hadn't said anything. I

[00:20:28] Still don't think he would have targeted Maria for the reason that I gave during the commercial break when I was on stage

[00:20:34] You keep the bigger shield

[00:20:37] You get rid of the lieutenant their lieutenant to reduce their power

[00:20:42] Now in this case

[00:20:43] He still has two lieutenant and the shield and it is set up for very good timing for the tribal councils that are left

[00:20:50] Plus as Owen pointed out in his panel after the show

[00:20:55] Charlie has the ability to win challenges. Yeah, he does

[00:21:01] Yes

[00:21:02] Charlie's doing great. I'm I'm very

[00:21:05] Pleasantly surprised by Charlie

[00:21:07] I wasn't really sure how he was going to land at the beginning of the season because he was young and

[00:21:14] In law school and maybe just a little too excited about the prospect of coming in and playing this game

[00:21:21] but he really has found a great balance and has

[00:21:26] Managed to infiltrate into so many social circles and create relationships that we haven't even seen then we're learning through the

[00:21:34] Exit press that he has these relationships. So overall I think he is

[00:21:38] Finding an incredible footing that he's managing to keep the trajectory moving in his favor

[00:21:47] Unlike some of the people that he's playing with. Yes

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[00:24:00] Well, one final thing I want to discuss here is a specific part of the edit as it relates to Liz

[00:24:07] Because it seems to indicate

[00:24:09] If you read the edit a certain way that she will go out and fire making

[00:24:13] Which would be incredibly ironic considering her hot take is that fire making is good

[00:24:18] Uh now the reason I say this is that last week we saw twice that she couldn't get a fire started

[00:24:24] And twice over the past two weeks

[00:24:25] We've seen fire reflected in her glasses much like we saw with carson when people pegged it as a reason he would go out and fire

[00:24:33] Now one problem is I don't see how Liz ends up in fire

[00:24:36] Unless something big happens over the next

[00:24:39] couple

[00:24:41] votes

[00:24:43] Uh, you know, I don't know who would choose to put her in fire making

[00:24:47] And also the editors know that people saw what they did with carson

[00:24:52] So would they really be so obvious by doing it again?

[00:24:55] I don't know. She was the one too who also said I need someone to start a fire for me

[00:24:59] To start a fire for me, right? That's what I that was one of the times that she okay

[00:25:04] so yeah, I and I was a little curious about that myself because and maybe

[00:25:09] Maybe now the editors are just messing with us because they know that we're paying attention to these things

[00:25:13] And we're all going wait, does that mean something and they're just chuckling in their back rooms going heehee they have no idea

[00:25:20] But I don't know. Maybe it I guess it depends on

[00:25:24] Who the final four?

[00:25:25] Are because I know

[00:25:28] Hmm. Oh, right, right. Yeah, I mean because I know that she's

[00:25:36] She's

[00:25:38] Someone who hasn't really frustrated anyone besides the one like outbursts she had about food

[00:25:43] She and q have really kind of made up it appears

[00:25:48] And so there's no one who is going to be sitting on that jury that is not

[00:25:53] Liking liz and is having some personal issue with liz and we've talked about this

[00:25:58] Quite a bit that sometimes the decision for who wins comes down to who do you like more?

[00:26:03] Right, and if she's someone who hasn't frustrated anyone

[00:26:07] Then there are others that could be sitting there going. Well, she hasn't she hasn't pissed anyone off who sits over there

[00:26:12] So maybe we don't want her sitting in one of these final three spots. Yeah. Yeah, that's possible. I don't know maybe

[00:26:20] All right, well do you have anything else before we move to the next segment

[00:26:23] Considering talking about something but then i'm like, you know what? I don't need to frustrate people. So we'll just leave it alone. Okay

[00:26:32] We need to bring back our regular segment. Jeff probst is wrong about blank

[00:26:38] Because the funny thing is that even though we're not to the rules yet

[00:26:42] This relates to venus and her idol

[00:26:45] On his podcast jeff said it's rarely a mistake when a player doesn't play their idol, but rather the other people outplayed them

[00:26:52] I mean

[00:26:53] I would say being outplayed is a mistake. But okay, we I won't get that

[00:26:57] That technical. Yeah, he even used hunter as a comparison point

[00:27:01] Now we already discussed uh over the course of the past two weeks that hunter and tiffany both

[00:27:06] Clearly should have known that they needed to play their idols

[00:27:09] Should have known that they needed to play their idols

[00:27:12] And while I put venus in a slightly different category that we'll discuss in a few minutes

[00:27:18] It turns out still to be more or less true

[00:27:20] The only one i'd say was really different this season was gem

[00:27:25] so

[00:27:27] sorry, jeff, but

[00:27:29] sometimes it most definitely is a mistake and

[00:27:32] Jeff probst is wrong about that

[00:27:34] Well, I do feel like there is something to be said

[00:27:39] about each of the players who we've seen and I know we're going to be going into this in the rules, but

[00:27:45] Generally when you have an idol in your pocket

[00:27:50] Players discuss. Well, I don't want to play it wrong

[00:27:53] But I also don't want to be voted out and sent home with idle in my pocket. So you kind of weigh the

[00:28:00] Benefit versus reward even if you're wrong, you've at least tried because you've got some type of read on the room and

[00:28:07] hunter

[00:28:08] And tiffany

[00:28:10] And venus I don't think it was because they had a read on the room thinking i'm good

[00:28:15] it was

[00:28:16] I want I want another chance to use this later because I think it was I mean

[00:28:21] We just spent you know, the last two weeks discussing. Uh, you know that they did think they were good. It was a combination

[00:28:28] Right, it is a combination but it wasn't just a matter of like

[00:28:32] What I like you said gem I think is a little bit different

[00:28:35] But there there was I mean hunter was clearly like i'm not am I okay? Like am I good like he did the math?

[00:28:42] He did the math

[00:28:43] Trying to do the math but the math included but I would like to be here

[00:28:48] Right more days and so if I don't play it now, then I get to play it next time

[00:28:53] Right there might not be a next time if you don't play it now

[00:28:56] and so it is one of those situations where

[00:28:59] I I feel like there was an over emphasis placed on

[00:29:04] I'm, pretty sure that i'm okay

[00:29:06] But I would like to play I would like to be able to play this later and that'll make that'll be my big move

[00:29:12] Right where it's like I don't play it now. I hold it and then I look like i'm awesome and then I play it next time

[00:29:19] Yeah, and tiffany did hold it once and

[00:29:22] It was a great move

[00:29:23] Right, and then she didn't just just do it once if you really want that just do it once. Yeah

[00:29:30] All right. Well, there were of course other things going on i'll be putting some of it in my tiktoks at david bloomberg tv

[00:29:36] uh, but before we

[00:29:38] Really get to how venus did we need to mention that the rules we're about to discuss come in a shorter and much more colorful

[00:29:45] version

[00:29:47] In poster form and you can find that at rob has a website.com slash yx locks feed

[00:29:53] Scroll down to the poster click on it

[00:29:56] Uh order it and you'll get it and I had people telling me. Uh, uh, one woman told me she had it in her office at work

[00:30:03] Uh, which I thought was very nice. Uh, there was some people with the on a t-shirt which you can also scroll down and get

[00:30:11] Uh people people enjoyed the I was wearing that t-shirt and people were like, oh, that's great. Is that eric reichenbach?

[00:30:17] I'm, like yes it is and I told the whole story

[00:30:20] and so

[00:30:21] Uh, you too can have one of your own on the you know by going to the website

[00:30:25] uh, you can also have the checklist t-shirt which

[00:30:29] Tricky the designer of that t-shirt mentioned he had seen a lot of in various places. So

[00:30:34] Uh again go to rob his website.com slash yx lost feed

[00:30:39] Yes

[00:30:41] All right

[00:30:43] Well venus said in interviews that if she didn't have that conversation with charlie, she would have still been in the game

[00:30:50] Was that really the key inflection point?

[00:30:53] more importantly what led up to that in the weeks prior such that

[00:30:58] She was in a situation where a few wrong words could have such a big impact on her game

[00:31:03] It's time to figure out why venus lost

[00:31:08] For the past two weeks we've needed to start with the seventh rule instead of the first

[00:31:13] Because it covers idols and advantages in game mechanics

[00:31:17] And here we are again. Yay

[00:31:20] one more time

[00:31:22] This is not only unprecedented on the show but on this podcast as well

[00:31:27] Yes, I we you do not like to go out of order

[00:31:30] So I I just want everyone to be mindful of that when you make this decision

[00:31:35] This is a text ahead of time. This is a prepared jessica we are going out of order

[00:31:42] We don't do anything on the fly here, no i i'm always like okay i'm like that's fine

[00:31:51] I do appreciate the check-ins but you always know i'm fine with going out of order. I'm okay with it. Yeah, you're not

[00:32:00] Uh, yeah, that's one thing I was uh, I was I was talking to lindsey about at uh,

[00:32:05] Chicago because in the very first episode of the podcast this season

[00:32:10] We kept saying through the whole podcast wait for this rule wait for this rule wait for this rule

[00:32:15] And I realized in looking back, you know, it was the first podcast of the season

[00:32:19] That's why I wanted to go in order and looking back. It's just like no, I just should have gone out of order at that point

[00:32:24] uh, but

[00:32:26] Who knew you live and learn? Yes

[00:32:29] That's what venus said in some of her interviews. Uh, I know. Yeah

[00:32:33] So well, let's discuss rules several so yes

[00:32:36] Yes, uh first props to venus for finding the idol

[00:32:40] Uh, as she said she knew the area better than the idols because it was the nami beach

[00:32:44] Also, she knew where randon found his idol where tiffany found hers

[00:32:48] Which is valuable information in the game because it gave her a leg up on figuring out where to look

[00:32:54] Plus she realized that even once she found the idol

[00:32:57] She had to pretend to continue searching so it wouldn't be obvious

[00:33:00] And then later turned it into pretending to be so bored with the whole searching thing

[00:33:06] That it was convincing enough for us to get a long confessional from kenzie about how venus wasn't really looking

[00:33:12] It was just following her around hoping she'd find it while venus was giving hilarious looks to the camera

[00:33:18] like her whole

[00:33:19] You know look at her watch thing and it was very and she was also trying to use that opportunity to like throw q under the bus

[00:33:26] Like he must have found it. Yeah, we haven't found it. He must have found it

[00:33:29] I thought that was that was good too. That was quite creative. Yeah, try to

[00:33:33] shift

[00:33:34] The the eyes somewhere else. Yeah now kenzie did say maybe venus already found it

[00:33:39] But she quickly dismissed the idea about as quickly as she had said it

[00:33:43] Yeah

[00:33:44] the funniest part of her convincing kenzie that she wasn't really interested in looking was

[00:33:51] That venus was apparently the first one to go off and hunt for idols on nami

[00:33:57] originally way back when uh

[00:33:59] Randon told mike bloom. She was looking from the first day quote

[00:34:04] I don't even think I said my last name to her and she was gone

[00:34:07] She was in the woods searching the most aggressive day one. I have ever seen so I was like girl

[00:34:12] What's going on right now? My name is randon. Hello, and she's in the bushes flipping rocks

[00:34:19] um

[00:34:20] now

[00:34:22] Interviews that everyone was looking for idols. So

[00:34:25] Why try to hide it? Why not just be honest about it?

[00:34:28] I do feel like that's the that's where we're at as well. I I know that that used to be

[00:34:33] a big no-no

[00:34:34] You you didn't want to go out there and immediately be

[00:34:36] Pegged as the one looking for idols and you didn't want people to know that you were looking for idols

[00:34:40] Everyone's looking for idols. So at this point, well, I mean not if you are in bruce's tribe last season, but well, that's true

[00:34:47] That's exactly it you need to give yourself a minute

[00:34:51] more likely more than a minute to

[00:34:54] Get to know your tribe mates find out what their thought process is before you run off and do it because you could be in a bruce

[00:35:00] Like tribe where they frown upon it and they immediately want to vote you out if they think you right found it

[00:35:06] Yes, and I and that's it. So it is very important

[00:35:10] to

[00:35:11] Find out what those parameters are and know if you've got any other person who?

[00:35:17] You can utilize in that search to kind of cover for you

[00:35:20] There's a lot of things that you can do

[00:35:22] But if you are just immediately going to run out and start looking and kind of just buck the system and whatever

[00:35:28] Then you might end up. I just want to make it clear. She said buck with a b. I did say buck

[00:35:33] I was clear. I just want to make sure you know people heard you're right

[00:35:38] Yes, I i'm not

[00:35:39] using

[00:35:41] Bad language, I promise so

[00:35:44] But yes, I do think that that is a better

[00:35:48] Way to approach the beginning portion of the game, but I do feel like

[00:35:53] It seems like this group search for idols is becoming more and more

[00:35:58] um

[00:35:59] Like it just seems to be happening a lot more

[00:36:02] Search this was just an everybody ran off in their own way

[00:36:06] But no, no, but that's what I mean like everyone at the same time is like, all right

[00:36:09] Well, everyone else is looking we all might as well go look so

[00:36:13] He was conserving her calories

[00:36:15] And you know the way idols have gone this season who can blame her?

[00:36:19] Yeah, so so

[00:36:22] Dreams of apple bees in her head. Um

[00:36:28] So after that we got a venus confessional with her saying no one will ever catch a whiff of me having it

[00:36:35] I don't see any benefit in someone knowing that I have this power

[00:36:39] And there was applause throughout the theater so much. I'm sure yes

[00:36:44] And we then saw her telling kenzie that the worst thing would be if she went home with an idol in her pocket

[00:36:50] and I thought uh-oh

[00:36:53] And and then in confessional again, she told us it's very much a timing game

[00:36:57] Like when is the right time to play this?

[00:36:59] And she added it's so comforting to have the idol

[00:37:03] Uh now I mentioned earlier that after dinner I agreed with cory b's prediction she'd be going

[00:37:10] By the end of that series of scenes

[00:37:12] I knew without a shadow of a doubt. Yeah, she was a goner

[00:37:17] Yeah, someone did the same thing on twitter when I had posted something they're like

[00:37:20] I think she's going home with an idol in her pocket. This is a weird edit and it was definitely

[00:37:25] very strange because there was so much focus on

[00:37:29] Her mindset about the idol and what she thought she should do and and the continued idol search and just the change in her

[00:37:39] Mannerisms after she had found the idol versus before

[00:37:42] So yes, very very interesting edit. So it was definitely from a high to a low edit, you know

[00:37:49] That we saw it. It was like hey, here's venus at her highest point, you know

[00:37:53] And now we're going to see her crash at the end. Yeah

[00:37:56] She won't play it

[00:37:58] Uh, yes, I was not live tweeting so I could not you know put do that

[00:38:02] I felt we were in a dark theater. So I didn't want to really tweet very much. Uh, so

[00:38:07] You're so respectful

[00:38:09] And I wanted to pay attention. Uh, so

[00:38:13] Before her interviews

[00:38:16] I was telling people

[00:38:18] That this was you know people at the different uh,

[00:38:21] Loc in chicago pretty much

[00:38:24] That this was a different situation than hunter and tiffany

[00:38:27] Because both of them should have known they needed to play the idol while venus seemed to be in a secure spot

[00:38:34] until her conversation with charlie

[00:38:37] but

[00:38:38] sorry to those people I told i'm now changing my position because

[00:38:43] She said in those interviews that she did actually know she was in danger and thought it was a coin flip

[00:38:49] And to me this makes the decision not to play it even worse

[00:38:54] Because again not you know not to repeat ourselves, but apparently we have to uh

[00:39:00] If you have a whiff that you might be going home

[00:39:04] Play the idol. Well, right and the thing that she even said in her exit press, which I thought was interesting was that

[00:39:11] That conversation that she was having with charlie where she blames the shift in the vote happening, right?

[00:39:17] She even knew in that moment. Yeah. Oh gosh stop talking stop stop stop. This is bad

[00:39:23] So if that's your response as you're standing there like, oh, I just messed up

[00:39:27] That should give you even all the more reason to play the idol because now you've you've done exactly what you said

[00:39:33] You weren't gonna do you kind of let the cat out of the bag that you had something

[00:39:38] You let you at least let a paw out

[00:39:40] Right. So there was a little hint of something and this

[00:39:44] This type of don't worry you just

[00:39:47] Go ahead with the plan that was before and i'll tell you afterwards

[00:39:49] It's gonna be great. And then you and I are in the final four

[00:39:52] That's not gonna jive. No that survivor that doesn't work. Yeah, I I think

[00:39:59] Her realizing kind of mid-sentence that she was doing the wrong thing

[00:40:04] Explains some of the way the conversation went where it seems like she started to tell him and then backed away

[00:40:09] And didn't really know how to get herself out of that conversation

[00:40:12] I mean, I think

[00:40:14] I don't know about you

[00:40:14] but i've been in conversations like that where you kind of start to tell a story and then you realize like

[00:40:19] Oh crap, I wasn't supposed to tell this person that story

[00:40:23] At all. I wasn't and you're like, how do I get out of this? You know, and

[00:40:27] And and then there's more questions and it's awkward and right. Yeah, which is exactly what charlie was doing

[00:40:33] and so I think if you have that combination where there's a little bit of a thought that

[00:40:38] I might be the one being voted for and then and you know

[00:40:42] You've been voted for every tribal up to this point that you've been like the backup vote or the other plan

[00:40:49] People have been talking about wanting to vote you out

[00:40:51] And then you have this conversation with charlie where you think oh gosh now i've just messed up and I I revealed too much

[00:40:59] Yeah, play your idol at that point because there's too many things that are lining up that are like questionable

[00:41:05] And if you're so good at finding idols, well then if you're wrong and it gets put back out go find it again, right?

[00:41:11] I know that's easier said than done. But you know what I mean? Yeah

[00:41:14] yeah, I mean

[00:41:16] I understand, you know

[00:41:17] She said she did it because she wanted to work with charlie going forward

[00:41:21] And if he had stuck with her against q this time they could have used the idol together next time and solidified an alliance

[00:41:27] To keep moving forward which would have essentially been her first real alliance

[00:41:31] Uh, you know, she she told mike bloom

[00:41:34] I really did come in wanting to play a game of ride or dies and loyalty

[00:41:38] Uh, and I was trying a lot to form that with charlie

[00:41:42] But the thing is if she was trying to form trust with charlie, she either needed to tell him the whole truth

[00:41:48] or nothing

[00:41:49] Right not in between late at this point. Yeah, preferably nothing which you know, she even said in other

[00:41:55] um, but

[00:41:59] Yeah, you're right

[00:42:01] She came in with that thought

[00:42:04] Her brain should have clicked and realized I can't do that anymore because of what just happened

[00:42:09] Yes, and I really do think that at this point in the game

[00:42:13] It's just it's really too late to try to now establish a ride or die

[00:42:17] Even if she's been trying all of this time to formulate or create this relationship with charlie

[00:42:24] Charlie's already got his number one and his number two and he's he has well

[00:42:30] I mean you always vote out your number one. So, you know, it's perfect to become the new number one, right?

[00:42:35] There you are. It's great

[00:42:37] So I just feel like at this point with the way that venus's game was going

[00:42:42] She really needed to put all of her like eggs in her own basket, right?

[00:42:46] Like she needed to just be like this is all about venus at this point because no one is helping me

[00:42:51] They haven't been wanting to help me and i've been left out or you know, they've been

[00:42:57] Just not treating me like I am part of a group I am a number and they're utilizing that vote

[00:43:03] at that point you really just have to be like I am

[00:43:06] I'm a one-person ship at this point and I just need to do this myself and that's how she should have just left it and not

[00:43:13] Had that conversation and regardless of what the plan was for the vote you play your idol

[00:43:17] Just in case because you really are on your own at that point

[00:43:21] Yeah, I you know, she also, you know, she told mike bloom I guess this is where my misinterpretation came

[00:43:27] I saw it as ooh. This is an opportunity for the both of us. You get to use this too

[00:43:31] I want to work with you. He saw it as oh bleep

[00:43:35] Venus has something that can screw over my game in the future

[00:43:38] And then she continued which is fair. I see that point of view now in the moment. I didn't really see that so I

[00:43:45] You know, I think that was part of it

[00:43:46] She she knew that she shouldn't have told him but I think she convinced herself kind of that

[00:43:52] She had done a good enough job covering it that he would take it a certain way

[00:43:57] But it goes back to something that uh, jeremy our guest jeremy said last week when he talked about other players being professionals

[00:44:05] And you know, he pointed it out to me and again in our usual text exchange that we saw it this week

[00:44:10] In the way charlie immediately knew something was up with venus, you know, you're not you're not playing with amateurs here

[00:44:17] Mm-hmm

[00:44:18] You said something that was very weird and charlie

[00:44:23] Was like, you know his antenna what the heck's going on here?

[00:44:26] Yes, and she was frustrated that he then immediately went and told other people

[00:44:30] But told the people that he has been playing this game with right the beginning to say, uh, something's up

[00:44:37] Like there is definitely something going on

[00:44:40] and that is a better move for charlie to make because his loyalty is with

[00:44:45] Other people aside from venus. He has no loyalty to venus and so

[00:44:51] I don't

[00:44:52] Blame him for going and checking in and being like, what do you guys think that was all about? Yeah

[00:44:57] Yeah now, you know to her credit she added to mike. I guess it's my delivery

[00:45:02] I've come off as i've come to learn very sneaky apparently very cagey, which I didn't know

[00:45:07] In my mind i'd be cheeky and cute, but it doesn't go that way

[00:45:11] Uh

[00:45:12] She also told entertainment weekly you live and you learn hindsight is 2020

[00:45:16] And everyone is beating me up for that conversation. I had with him, which I really shouldn't have

[00:45:21] Honestly, it wasn't the correct move. I can see that now watching back

[00:45:25] Right. Yeah

[00:45:27] She's not wrong about that. Yeah

[00:45:30] I do think it's interesting that in the pregame venus said her favorite moment was rob sestronino

[00:45:34] Turning things on christy in the amazon when she was in the middle and wouldn't commit

[00:45:39] This isn't quite the same thing, but it is a situation where she

[00:45:44] Started to tell charlie something then pulled back and didn't commit to you know

[00:45:48] One way or the other and made him doubt so I feel like there's definitely some similarity here

[00:45:54] Yeah, I could see that

[00:45:57] All right. Well now let's go back to the first and most important rule which is to scheme and plot

[00:46:02] And yes, I realized that after three unplayed idols leaving in a row

[00:46:07] Some people would like me to change rule one to play your damn idol

[00:46:13] But the thing is scheming and plotting is the

[00:46:16] Omnipresent background to whether or not someone really does need to play their idol

[00:46:21] There are after all players who made it to the end while still holding on to their idols

[00:46:25] Because of how they maneuvered their way through the game. That's fair

[00:46:30] That wasn't the situation here. Uh, you know

[00:46:32] Indeed as we just discussed one reason she wanted to hold on to her idol was so she could try to build something strategic with charlie

[00:46:39] If she had that earlier

[00:46:41] So some strategic relationship she wouldn't have put herself into this situation

[00:46:47] Right, but she didn't have that earlier in the words of tevin to gordon holmes venus quote has excellent strategy

[00:46:54] She just doesn't have the social capital or awareness

[00:46:58] around her

[00:47:00] And I think that was a good description it lines up with what I was seeing

[00:47:04] Venus has sometimes seemed to know what should or will happen

[00:47:08] But she didn't have agency in the decision

[00:47:12] Knowing what's happening doesn't matter if she couldn't do anything about it. Yes, you know

[00:47:16] Yes, it's like someone saying well I should win because I was always on the right side of the vote

[00:47:21] Okay, great. You were on the right side. But was that just because people used you?

[00:47:26] Great and that I think is

[00:47:29] The part of survivor that a lot of people do seem to miss because that argument we hear more often than not

[00:47:34] I was always on the right side of the vote. Yeah, sure because

[00:47:38] You were going along with the crowd you were being told this is what we're doing

[00:47:41] You weren't the one that was actually creating the decision. You weren't the one that was leading the charge

[00:47:46] You were not the one that was formulating the plot or the plan and I'm a passenger not a pilot

[00:47:51] There you go

[00:47:52] I mean, I think venus wanted to be that person and I do think that she made attempts to have those conversations

[00:47:59] but again, it was too late for her because she was already in a position of

[00:48:04] People don't trust me people don't want to work with me. Something happened at the very beginning of the game with

[00:48:10] Trying to create a relationship with certain players and it didn't work out and unfortunately for her

[00:48:15] Those players did have agency and those players did have people that wanted to work with them immediately

[00:48:22] And that can certainly negatively affect anyone's game

[00:48:26] and I do think that it's worth mentioning because one of the things she talked about was how

[00:48:32] Awful it is to be in a game where no one wants to play the game with you

[00:48:37] But also this is survivor, right? And so those decisions have to be made and yes

[00:48:43] I've i've felt that when no one wants to play with you and you're like, well, this is terrible, you know

[00:48:47] And it is not a good feeling but it's also survivor. And so she ended up in a really

[00:48:54] terrible position

[00:48:55] But that was the position she found herself in so unfortunately you have to play from that position and because of that it just

[00:49:03] Caused the gameplay that she wanted to go by the wayside because she just couldn't without people in her corner, right?

[00:49:10] Yeah, I mean it, you know several times

[00:49:13] We heard a few times we heard I can't even say that word anymore, uh

[00:49:18] Darn you. Jalinski. Uh who I met and is a really nice guy and he really is he's great. Well, um

[00:49:26] But you know charlie and maria both said things in episode six about how smart venus was and how she had a good mind for the

[00:49:32] game and

[00:49:34] I also suspect this was a big part of where people got the image

[00:49:38] Of her as someone run who runs around with different plans, which of course we'll discuss in the second rule

[00:49:43] She thought she knew the proper path

[00:49:45] And maybe it was the proper path for her

[00:49:48] In some cases, but she wasn't able to convince others of it

[00:49:53] Right, you know she she definitely had plans

[00:49:56] Uh early on for example

[00:49:58] She said she intended to work with randon use his beware advantage with him and then flip at the merge

[00:50:04] uh, she also planned to go after soda and tevin and

[00:50:07] You know, we saw that she felt she'd led the charge there while others definitely did not feel that, you know share that opinion

[00:50:15] We've talked about that in the previous episodes discussing how she didn't seem to understand the perspectives of the other players

[00:50:22] I already quoted her recognizing that now in some circumstances, which i'm glad she realized

[00:50:29] And and venus said in her interview with rob that some viewers thought she was arrogant and delusional and thought she was running the game

[00:50:37] I kind of felt called out there. Uh, but uh

[00:50:41] But she used that as a preface

[00:50:44] To say that her pitch

[00:50:47] To others was

[00:50:49] They should take her because there was no way she was winning

[00:50:53] Now we never saw that but presuming it's true

[00:50:56] It was at least good recognition of where she stood and trying to turn it to her advantage

[00:51:01] As she told mike while laughing like jessica was just now

[00:51:04] Uh, I wouldn't say that I was completely doomed

[00:51:07] It would take a lot to convince people at the end and to deliver a convincing enough story as much as I would like

[00:51:13] To say I would be a zero vote or as much as people would like to say I would be a zero vote finalist

[00:51:18] I think I would have gotten maybe one vote

[00:51:22] Yeah, I mean I I really do feel like there is something to be said about recognizing

[00:51:29] Your place in the game because we've said perception is reality and if this is how you are being perceived

[00:51:35] Regardless of whether or not that's how you are

[00:51:38] That's how people in the game are perceiving you so you can lean in

[00:51:41] If that's what they think or you can try to change that narrative if you can it's a very difficult thing

[00:51:47] I think to do and unfortunately, I feel like

[00:51:50] Venus leaned in instead of trying to necessarily

[00:51:54] correct

[00:51:55] The narrative that had been created about her and it just

[00:52:00] People built upon it. They they had heard this about venus or they thought this and then oh, then they would see this and go

[00:52:05] Well, of course, it's venus. You can't trust anything. She says I mean ben called her a poser for god's sakes

[00:52:11] Yeah, you know, that's it's it's just very it's it was a very interesting

[00:52:16] narrative to see be created

[00:52:19] through

[00:52:20] other people's

[00:52:22] Representations of venus and then you would see venus acting a certain way and go well

[00:52:25] I can kind of understand why someone would think that

[00:52:28] Because of how she's behaving but in venus's mind

[00:52:32] That wasn't what she was doing. She's like no i'm doing it because of this

[00:52:36] But that's what they were seeing so you can't correct that narrative if the way that you're acting

[00:52:41] Is adding to that narrative because there's no explanation for the behavior besides what they're seeing, right? Right

[00:52:48] Right

[00:52:49] All right. Well before we leave this rule, I do want to mention one more thing like so many other people this season venus

[00:52:55] underestimated charlie as a gamer

[00:52:57] She said in this episode that she questioned how strategic and cutthroat he could be

[00:53:02] Well, he was pretty dang strategic and cutthroat when he outschemed her here

[00:53:06] yeah, 100 and I think that that speaks volumes of

[00:53:11] Him recognizing what people think about him

[00:53:14] Right and that he is not the strategic mastermind and he's leaning in on that, right

[00:53:20] All right

[00:53:21] Well, we could move to the second rule and it says to or not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming

[00:53:25] secret

[00:53:26] As I mentioned earlier venus told mike bloom she has now learned she comes off as sneaky and cagey which she didn't know

[00:53:33] And indeed that was a big theme of what?

[00:53:36] players said about her

[00:53:38] Uh plus her apparently coming to different people with different plans

[00:53:41] Buckle up. There's a lot here

[00:53:44] Kenzie said in episode eight. No one really enjoys working with her. No one trusts her kenzie later told charlie venus is chaos

[00:53:51] I don't want venus here either

[00:53:53] Liz told maria this week. The only person talking to me is venus and I don't believe anything

[00:53:57] She says she's so all over the place maria replied. That's another reason. I can't work with her. I can't understand her game at all

[00:54:05] Tevin had previously said venus is flipping and flopping and is threatening to my alliances

[00:54:10] Charlie said in episode seven venus is totally chaotic and unpredictable. I don't think I can trust her with anything

[00:54:16] Charlie later said venus. I don't trust she'll cause some random chaos

[00:54:21] Maria added venus isn't someone I can work with

[00:54:24] Ben told charlie in this episode. She's just causing more and more chaos

[00:54:27] She freaks out before every tribal council and she's always running around trying to pitch some crazy plan. I'm sick of being around that

[00:54:35] And of course there was the exchange with q at this tribal council

[00:54:39] Where he said everybody here knows to never ever ever ever ever ever say a name in front of venus

[00:54:44] She'll come up to you aggressively. What do you want to do?

[00:54:48] She'll run and tell this person liz said this this person q said this he later added that she didn't

[00:54:55] Know about the tiffany vote because they didn't trust her now for her part. She had some very nice comebacks to him, but

[00:55:02] Uh, the point here is about how everybody viewed her

[00:55:06] And that continued from her conversation with charlie where he saw her as being super shifty

[00:55:12] and you know, he was trying to set up a final four deal, but she was

[00:55:17] Stonewalling him on something incredibly important, which is a huge red flag

[00:55:22] Yes. Yes, and I at this point in the game when you were trying to

[00:55:27] Maneuver and determine who's going to be in that final four

[00:55:32] This is not the time that you want to be perceiving

[00:55:34] Not the time that you want to be perceived as kg or like you're hiding something

[00:55:39] And you do not want to almost give that person an ultimatum like no. No, no, no

[00:55:43] Trust me. Trust me where you just do what i'm telling you to do and then i'll tell you later

[00:55:48] After this vote and i'll share with you what i've got and we'll we'll make it to the final four

[00:55:53] It it doesn't work

[00:55:55] in in the relationship that you've already created and the the type of player that you are believed to be

[00:56:01] To then be having that conversation

[00:56:04] that rely that type of

[00:56:07] Promise really requires some type of loyalty that you've built throughout the entire game

[00:56:14] You can't come in on day 21. I think we're at or whatever it is at this point and and try to do that

[00:56:21] Unfortunately for her she just was not in a position to do anything of the sort and also I think she

[00:56:27] mentioned in one of her exit interviews that she

[00:56:30] Thought that if she could pull this off and get charlie on her side

[00:56:36] That that would be a great argument for her at the end

[00:56:39] So she pulled charlie in pulled off this move saved her idol used it the final five

[00:56:45] And ta-da look at me and then she would have more to

[00:56:50] Talk about in the final three and I understand that you want to have a resume and you want to have those moves

[00:56:56] But at this point for her it's a little too late she just couldn't do that

[00:57:00] I know but that was I mean, like she said that was her only hope, you know, she knew that

[00:57:05] Yeah, so yeah, I I see her going for it. Just not with what happened

[00:57:10] Yes

[00:57:11] so

[00:57:12] now I you know

[00:57:15] Going back to all those things that everyone said about her and I know that was a lot to read but

[00:57:20] The show clearly wanted us to know that this was what everybody thought of venus, right?

[00:57:25] Right. Yeah, this was not just one or two people and I know venus said in her interviews that tevin and q poisoned the well

[00:57:32] With everyone about her

[00:57:34] But we saw at least some of the actual behavior, too

[00:57:38] I mean we go back to mergatory in episode six when she massively overplayed while trying to change the target to charlie

[00:57:47] from maria

[00:57:48] As hunter told mike bloom she was working so hard to get herself out of the game

[00:57:52] The way she was scrambling everyone was like venus we cannot work with her

[00:57:57] Right now in many cases and I said it at the time this would have resulted in her becoming the target then

[00:58:02] But hunter said he went to bat for her and instead

[00:58:05] People also saw her as being so obvious that they didn't worry about her, right?

[00:58:11] you know for her part venus told mike that

[00:58:16] Everything the others said about her quote they were doing themselves

[00:58:19] But they were doing it with a very false veil of a fake positivity

[00:58:24] I was the only one who was doing

[00:58:26] What they were doing, but I was or yeah, but I was being open and honest about it

[00:58:32] And I mentioned a few weeks ago that she also tweeted

[00:58:35] I'm never going to be the player that sits quietly with a stupid grin and plays dumb if your strategy is bad. I will tell you

[00:58:42] But that's not how you play survivor, right? That's the thing about this rule a huge part of it

[00:58:48] It's right there in the subtitle is keep your scheming secret

[00:58:51] You should not be telling people if they have a bad strategy. You should not be all open and honest about your scheming

[00:59:00] It's like we were talking about with the idol a minute ago. Yes, everyone does it to one extent or another but you do it

[00:59:08] quiet

[00:59:09] Yes, smile and nod. Yes always say yes. These are all things that we've talked about

[00:59:13] Yeah, you you can survivor is not the time to point out someone's faults or flaws to their face

[00:59:21] Right because you're playing a game for a million dollars

[00:59:24] So as much as it's infuriating you and as much as someone may be driving you crazy

[00:59:30] You don't tell them that to their face. You don't say that you use the confessionals to do that you use your

[00:59:38] Next closest ally who you can trust if you want to talk about someone

[00:59:42] But

[00:59:44] Unfortunately this idea that honesty is the best policy because this is who I am and i'm real and i'm not going to pretend

[00:59:50] Oh, no, you have to pretend right? Yeah, right bloomberg. You have to pretend just a little bit just a little bit

[00:59:55] It's in one of your rules. Yeah. Yeah

[00:59:59] We'll get there too, but yes

[01:00:01] But first we have the third rule

[01:00:03] Which tells players to be flexible. So how do you think venus did here?

[01:00:07] well, this one is really interesting right because

[01:00:10] I feel like

[01:00:12] You just mentioned like trying to shift the vote to maria

[01:00:16] At a moment in time when she didn't need to do that, right? She was over playing and she was mariah mariah

[01:00:22] I always i'm so sorry mariah. Um, so mariah mariah

[01:00:26] There's so many names but at that point it would that was unnecessary. So it's like she's trying to

[01:00:33] Come up with these other ideas and these other

[01:00:36] Game mechanics or game moves that she wants to introduce and have other people do

[01:00:41] But again, it goes back to what you had said previously she had no one working with her so

[01:00:45] It makes it very difficult for you to then say. Oh, no. No, but how about this plan?

[01:00:49] I I think she wanted to be someone who was like

[01:00:54] I'm willing to do the craziest thing and i'm willing to make all of the crazy moves and do things that no one expects

[01:01:00] but

[01:01:01] To do that. You need to have people working with you. And so when you're trying to be flexible

[01:01:07] And everyone's looking at you going well

[01:01:09] We can't trust her because she runs around and is like coming up with all these crazy ideas at the last minute and trying to

[01:01:14] Make us vote different ways

[01:01:16] You you really can't be flexible when you're in the position that venus was in. Yeah, you know, I

[01:01:24] I agree. It's an interesting

[01:01:26] You know a situation with her because on one hand

[01:01:28] Venus said in her interviews that she would have been a good ally in part because she was open-minded to change

[01:01:33] And didn't let grudges stop her from working with someone

[01:01:36] Sure, I think that's probably true in some cases

[01:01:39] But then there were other cases like mergatory when she pushed so hard to go after charlie

[01:01:44] Even though she had been told it was either herself or maria

[01:01:50] You know

[01:01:51] So again, not flexible at that point. And of course there was q who she specifically said in tribal council

[01:01:56] she wouldn't voluntarily work with although the feeling was mutual anyway, and it's understandable, but

[01:02:03] You can't have it both ways you can't say I don't hold grudges and I'd do anything and then have that still

[01:02:10] I don't think we can really say she was flexible in that. She seemed to have

[01:02:15] Very specific ideas about who targets should be and shared that with from what we heard anyone who had listened

[01:02:23] Yes, it's great to have strategic ideas. It is not so great to be so openly steadfast

[01:02:29] Yes

[01:02:31] Great way to put it

[01:02:32] Thank you

[01:02:33] Uh, the fourth rule tells players not to let their emotions control them. This is a bit of a tough one for me also

[01:02:40] because

[01:02:41] It really did seem like a lot of venus's decisions were wrapped up in how she felt about a person

[01:02:46] Especially her original nami tribe mates

[01:02:49] Um, you know as I mentioned

[01:02:50] She said she didn't hold grudges and also added in her interviews that she tried talking to some of her

[01:02:55] Nami tribe mates before they were voted out

[01:02:58] But it's very hard to judge

[01:03:01] Because it also made strategic sense from her point of view to go along with a vote against people who she felt

[01:03:08] Were not going to work with her right? So I can't say it's because of emotional reasons because you know could have been strategic

[01:03:16] I'm trying to remember if there was any vote situation

[01:03:20] where

[01:03:21] We saw her target someone or not

[01:03:23] Specifically for emotional reasons. Can you think of anyone?

[01:03:27] I can't really I think what she really was attempting to do on so many

[01:03:33] Decisions she was making was she wanted to she wanted to be in charge

[01:03:37] She wanted to she wanted to be the leader. She wanted people to follow her everybody did they have

[01:03:42] It's got to be my move or else i'm gonna spend 10 minutes in confessional talking about it

[01:03:47] Yes, and so I I think that that was where her decisions are really coming from it was this idea that

[01:03:53] I want the move and I need to make this move and I want people to do what I want to do

[01:03:58] And it was it was more of this idea of what survivor is supposed to be I feel where

[01:04:05] You come into survivor thinking boy. I'm gonna i'm gonna make all the moves and then when i'm in final three

[01:04:10] They're just gonna look at me and be like, oh my god. Look at all the things that you did

[01:04:13] But that wasn't what was happening for her at all and so I don't think it came from a place of emotion

[01:04:18] I think it came from a place of wanting to play this game in that way

[01:04:21] But she couldn't play this game in that way because she was not in a position to do so, right?

[01:04:26] Okay

[01:04:28] Well, the fifth rule reminds players. They need to pretend to be nice and play the social game

[01:04:33] Hey, there's that word pretend. Yeah. Yeah, we we might

[01:04:37] Have a little bit to talk about here

[01:04:39] Let's start in the pregame

[01:04:41] When venus said she worried that people would have a negative first impression of her

[01:04:45] So she'd have to turn them around quickly

[01:04:49] Fast forward to her post-game interviews

[01:04:52] She said that while she understands having a bad first impression. She didn't expect people to hold a grudge for so long

[01:04:59] So clearly the whole turning them around quickly thing didn't quite work out

[01:05:03] So clearly the whole turning them around quickly thing didn't quite work out

[01:05:09] um

[01:05:10] You know as I mentioned earlier

[01:05:11] She also said tevin and queue poisoned the well against her and there was no rhyme or reason for them to hate her

[01:05:17] Uh, she told mike bloom imagine the two most charismatic talkative people on the island saying nothing but negative things about you

[01:05:24] Always having your name in their mouth and always saying you are chaos. You are sneaky. You are untrustworthy

[01:05:30] Other people will internalize that especially if they don't give you a chance to actually talk to you and get to know you as a person

[01:05:36] They will internalize whatever the loudest voice in the room says to them

[01:05:39] And that is something that I suffered with the entire game. It was very much the scarlet letter on me

[01:05:46] Yeah, well, but but that's but that's part of survivor, right? You're either gonna

[01:05:51] Connect with people or you're not going to connect with people and you have to try to figure out how to connect with people

[01:05:55] That you put on the tribe. Yes. Yes

[01:05:59] Here's the thing

[01:06:00] We obviously weren't there

[01:06:02] right when

[01:06:04] five people on your original tribe

[01:06:07] Say you are acting a certain way

[01:06:11] And then a whole bunch more people at the merge say it too

[01:06:14] While you are the only one saying it's everybody else

[01:06:20] I can't say a hundred percent which perspective is the correct one

[01:06:24] But it only makes sense to lean heavily in a particular way

[01:06:29] Yeah, I think majority might rule here

[01:06:31] Unfortunately. Yeah, and I do and again I

[01:06:35] This particular tribe that she was on had some very big personalities on it, right?

[01:06:41] And so that in and of itself

[01:06:44] Can affect the dynamics and it can affect the just the atmosphere and the way that people

[01:06:52] React to each other and the way that they connect with each other

[01:06:55] But you look at someone like hunter who I don't think he appreciated

[01:06:59] all of the singing we could do something as silly as that, you know the singing but he just kind of sat back and was

[01:07:04] Like oh, this is what i'm dealing with now

[01:07:06] And and didn't let it get in the way and was able to

[01:07:11] live within

[01:07:13] What was created for him like within that within that tribe if you were fighting against that

[01:07:19] As I feel like she was probably doing

[01:07:22] That's not going to gain any traction either if you either have to pretend that all of this is fine

[01:07:29] And if you don't immediately connect with someone that's okay, but you can't let that become your whole

[01:07:37] Existence with this person you have to try to create something else because you don't have a choice

[01:07:43] You really don't have a choice, especially when you have such big personalities that you're playing with

[01:07:48] Yeah, a perfect example soda told mike bloom venus would come to me and say nobody likes me nobody wants to talk to me

[01:07:54] and

[01:07:55] Soda said i'm like you have to go out and try to change that

[01:07:59] Uh, and so to continue I was really just on the receiving end of a lot of things like her toe getting run over was

[01:08:04] Apparently my fault

[01:08:05] It's a lot of me going your feelings are valid. I understand and just kind of absorbing this by the end of day two

[01:08:12] It's night out and she asked to talk to me by the boats and she was like I can see you're not talking anymore

[01:08:17] It's very obvious. No one's talking to me

[01:08:20] No one's working with me hunter gets to go off into the woods

[01:08:23] No problem, but I do it and everybody like has a problem

[01:08:26] And i'm like listen to me. You're not hunter. You're you

[01:08:30] You have to figure out how you are going to move and adjust

[01:08:34] If people are not messing with you and and wanting to live with you you need to figure that out

[01:08:40] I can't do that for you. So, you know soda was telling her the same thing. You just said basically

[01:08:45] You have to figure out what to do with these people

[01:08:48] Yeah

[01:08:49] Because you're not going to like everyone that you play this game with it's right

[01:08:52] It's it's a given because these are people you've never met before and these are people that you might never

[01:08:58] Be with again in your life, but you have to live with them. You have to be with them 24 7

[01:09:03] so you you need to find something you need to

[01:09:06] Pretend as much as you can to tolerate this person and to not make it appear as if you're frustrated

[01:09:13] And on top of it if you are sharing

[01:09:17] with other people

[01:09:19] That this is what's happening and this is how you feel and this is what's being done to you

[01:09:24] you don't know if that person's going back and telling this other person and

[01:09:29] Not for nothing, but

[01:09:31] If tevin knows that this is getting under her skin

[01:09:34] Maybe tevin's gonna keep doing that right because why not?

[01:09:38] This is again a game for a million dollars. So if you learn something about someone that's making them

[01:09:43] Frustrated and really bothering them. No, you might just be like, okay

[01:09:48] Duly noted

[01:09:49] Keep some of us might do that to people in real life even um, right. I mean these things happen. Yeah

[01:09:55] um

[01:09:56] Now yeah, you know you mentioned tevin because we know as venus mentioned that tevin was not a fan

[01:10:02] Uh, he flat out said on the show venus brings tribe morale down

[01:10:06] But even so we heard from him in his exit press how he tried to pull her aside and straighten things out

[01:10:11] But their perspectives just never meshed

[01:10:16] He tried to explain the problems and she just told him he was interpreting what she was doing wrong

[01:10:23] now on twitter

[01:10:24] Emperor of chocolate. I want to be the emperor of chocolate

[01:10:28] Um emperor of chocolate i'm just paying for a minute i'm just going down to get paper

[01:10:32] Yeah, I thought you were going to get chocolate after I uh, no, but that would have been lovely. Yeah

[01:10:37] Uh asked me a few weeks ago

[01:10:39] Do you reckon it's more of a her problem or everyone else problem because i'm thinking it's an everyone problem

[01:10:45] Venus doesn't like them and they all don't like her so no one really wins in this situation

[01:10:50] And I responded that in survivor

[01:10:53] If it's an everyone else problem, then it's a you

[01:10:56] Problem. Oh my gosh, you just made me think of something. Go ahead. Yeah, there is no objective who's right and who's wrong

[01:11:03] There's just who has the votes and that was the issue in tevin's story as well

[01:11:08] She felt she was right and they were all wrong according to tevin's story again

[01:11:12] and

[01:11:14] You know as she told them they had the wrong perspective

[01:11:18] She didn't seem to recognize that it didn't matter

[01:11:21] She had to acknowledge their point of view and make the necessary changes

[01:11:25] Because according to what tevin told dalton ross every person on nami tried to be very nice

[01:11:31] They didn't show how much soda was bending backwards for venus. They didn't show liz being extraordinarily nice

[01:11:37] They didn't show randon going out of the way. Well, they did show it a little bit

[01:11:40] I'm going out of my way hunter's going out of his way

[01:11:43] We all went out of our way to really try to make her feel comfortable

[01:11:47] And we had to talk one night about how she wasn't being heard and we really listened to her but it didn't work out

[01:11:54] Yeah, so this just reminds me and you have to forgive me because i'm flipping through all of my papers

[01:12:00] I I have so many papers. Um, but this reminds me there was a comedian whose name I can never remember but he was uh,

[01:12:08] Very famous back in the i'm gonna just say it the early 90s. Oh my gosh. Can you believe that?

[01:12:14] Um, but one of the jokes that he actually made which I love

[01:12:18] And he is this very like kind of just dry like dull affect when he would talk

[01:12:22] But he would say he would just kind of do like drop like one-liners and it was

[01:12:27] My mother used to always tell me that there was always one weird person on the school bus

[01:12:33] And I could never find them. Yeah

[01:12:37] Yeah, so it's like that's one of these types of moments where you're like it's it

[01:12:42] It has to be everyone else it can't be me but no maybe it really is

[01:12:46] Well, there's a saying in poker too

[01:12:48] If you sit down at the poker table and you look around and you can't find the fish at the table

[01:12:53] And the fish is the bad player

[01:12:55] You're the fish. Yeah

[01:12:58] so

[01:12:58] um, but

[01:13:01] You know in this case it's a little bit different in that it's a matter of perspectives not necessarily

[01:13:07] Hard objective facts, but perspective turns into a hard objective fact in the survivor. Yes

[01:13:13] You know now

[01:13:16] Venus continued in talking to mike bloom saying in the game of survivor

[01:13:19] There's no reason to ostracize an individual person, but you you got into this somewhat already

[01:13:25] The thing is it's a game

[01:13:27] And while I agree there are certain things people shouldn't do even in a game

[01:13:32] unfortunately

[01:13:33] Unfortunately ostracizing someone within the confines of the game

[01:13:38] Is indeed a viable strategy?

[01:13:41] Is it mean? Yeah

[01:13:43] Yes, so is denying someone a food reward and we discussed that last week and you talked about it earlier

[01:13:48] That's part of the game as well. You went through this people on your tribe

[01:13:53] Turned on you. Yes

[01:13:55] Yes, and it sucks and I can tell everyone who wants to play survivor it hurts emotionally. You're like this is awful

[01:14:03] And you you don't ever want to be in that type of situation, but you have to keep telling yourself

[01:14:08] But this is a game for a million dollars

[01:14:11] So i'm gonna eat crow

[01:14:13] I'm gonna get back out there and i'm gonna act like it doesn't bother me and i'm still gonna try to formulate

[01:14:18] A relationship with somebody I have to figure this out and like that was one of those moments that I I was like

[01:14:23] I need I need ken ken's my my he's going to be what's going to save me here

[01:14:28] I need to figure out how i'm going to build that relationship

[01:14:31] That's what you have to do. It's everything in survivor is it's like a reaction to what is happening

[01:14:38] They're ripple effects and you have to make sure that you are responding in kind

[01:14:43] You can't mope you can't complain. You can't be like it's I don't understand. What am I doing wrong?

[01:14:48] Well, you got to figure it out because if you don't figure it out

[01:14:50] Then this is the type of thing that's going to happen to you and it's worse. I mean

[01:14:55] I don't from what we saw and heard it wasn't even I don't understand. What am I doing wrong?

[01:15:00] It's they don't understand i'm not

[01:15:03] Anything wrong, right, right

[01:15:05] Which you know that that kind of

[01:15:08] Is even worse?

[01:15:10] Yeah

[01:15:11] So now I have another litany of thoughts from other players in the game much like I had in the second rule

[01:15:17] Uh where just to show that you know, it wasn't just one or two people almost everybody felt similar about her

[01:15:24] tiffany told rob

[01:15:26] Venus had a rough time out there because she's opinionated and someone who won't bite her tongue

[01:15:30] But in a game like survivor, sometimes you have to bite your tongue

[01:15:35] Q said venus is the problem for all the complaining and the pushing and the running to tell this story to this person

[01:15:42] And yes before anyone writes in I know it's very funny for q

[01:15:46] Of all people to say that but still right just shows another right ben said the negative vibes are a bit much

[01:15:54] Maria said back in episode 7 venus is pretty oblivious. She isn't reading the room

[01:16:02] Just overall

[01:16:04] She didn't make good social bonds

[01:16:07] As hunter said in his mid-season, uh entertainment weekly interview

[01:16:11] I thought it was strange just how quickly she began to isolate herself even in terms of simple things

[01:16:17] uh

[01:16:18] He gave an example of how he and tevin and soda went crab hunting and venus

[01:16:23] Chose not to join in to the point that after a week. She didn't even know where they went to catch crabs

[01:16:30] Hunter also told gordon holmes venus didn't connect in any way other than trying to talk strategy

[01:16:37] Yeah, and I and again

[01:16:40] Good as far as you want to play survivor and you need to strategize

[01:16:45] Bad if you are not creating the social bonds that you need in order to carry through with that strategy

[01:16:51] You can't win this game by yourself, right?

[01:16:53] Right. You cannot play this game by yourself

[01:16:55] and I do love that you use the word agency because

[01:16:59] If no one is working with you, you could have the greatest plan in the world

[01:17:03] It doesn't matter if you are

[01:17:05] All by yourself, right? You can't carry the day with one vote. You just can't yeah

[01:17:09] Yeah, she could have been right about every single thing about who should go next

[01:17:13] But it doesn't matter if you can't get anyone to listen to you, right?

[01:17:17] And you know another reason that she had problems in this rule

[01:17:21] And this was something you've already alluded to a couple times is she simply didn't seem to want to pretend to be nice

[01:17:28] Yeah, she made that clear in a few tweets a little while ago

[01:17:32] Uh such as saying I was well aware of who had an alliance and was being completely iced out

[01:17:37] Of course i'm blunt of how they're being perceived. Why beat around the bush?

[01:17:42] And also, uh, I want you all to ask yourself

[01:17:45] Would you try and kiss the asses of people who have made zero effort to get to know you?

[01:17:49] And have already made up their minds about you answer you wouldn't

[01:17:53] Yes, you would when you play survivor

[01:17:56] one yes, you would and also

[01:17:59] They're not they're saying that that's not the case

[01:18:02] Yeah, and also any schmoozing would have made exactly zero difference rather save my dignity because that's worth much more to me than a million

[01:18:09] dollars

[01:18:10] But the thing is a good social game can in fact change your circumstances

[01:18:16] And we heard earlier that venus said the path to winning wasn't closed for her

[01:18:20] So why not try to open it up just a little bit more?

[01:18:24] Yeah, yeah

[01:18:25] um

[01:18:27] I think

[01:18:29] some of this

[01:18:31] Maybe most of this comes down to what jeff said in his on fire podcast a few weeks ago

[01:18:35] Uh, and I mentioned this at the time but just to bring it back

[01:18:39] Uh the way he said that the way venus was acting made more sense

[01:18:43] When you know her backstory of being an activist for women in iran who calls bs when she sees it

[01:18:49] And yeah, she told rob that the reason she was on the show was to represent the women of iran

[01:18:55] She told mike

[01:18:56] I went into this game saying yes

[01:18:58] I could play the safe game and be quiet or I can use my voice the way I want to the way i'm

[01:19:03] Advocating for other women to be that confident person that I see in iran the confident women

[01:19:09] There who are speaking their minds and putting their own lives at reach or at risk

[01:19:13] This is such a tiny thing in comparison

[01:19:16] Of course i'm going to speak my mind. Of course i'm going to come off as arrogant

[01:19:19] I don't care but the last thing i'm going to do is censor myself and to remove myself

[01:19:25] of my own agency in the game

[01:19:27] Now again, I mentioned this when it first came up on jeff's podcast

[01:19:31] But as we've said about similar situations all of that is great. It is important in the real world

[01:19:37] Yes, this is not the real world. This is still survivor people are playing a game

[01:19:43] I support her activism. I I support calling bs when she sees it in everyday life. This isn't everyday life

[01:19:50] One thing that a number of fans told me in chicago

[01:19:53] Was that a reason they like this podcast is we tell it like it is and we don't hold back

[01:19:59] So, of course i'm in favor of that

[01:20:02] But that's us talking about

[01:20:04] survivor not us

[01:20:07] playing

[01:20:08] survivor and playing the game

[01:20:11] Literally has different rules. Yes, and I agree wholeheartedly with you that I have so much respect for

[01:20:19] What she wants to do the message that she wants to put out into the universe and how she wants to represent women

[01:20:26] Hi, i'm a woman totally agree with all of that. I think everything that she's saying is spot on in the real world as you said

[01:20:34] 100 that's the way it should be and I think that there's a great way to exist and I have so much respect for that

[01:20:40] But again survivor makes you have to make decisions that you would not make in your real life

[01:20:45] I wouldn't choose to like lie to someone to their face about something

[01:20:51] in the real world but in survivor

[01:20:53] That's what you do and it's uncomfortable and you're like i'm literally lying to this person's face right now, but

[01:21:00] That's what you have to do in survivor. And so you you have to always remind yourself

[01:21:04] This is not the real world

[01:21:06] You can still have you can represent everything you want to represent and you can be that person

[01:21:11] But when you're playing this game, it's different and it and it's a hard thing to

[01:21:16] Maneuver, it's a hard thing to to work through because it doesn't feel

[01:21:21] Right, you're like this is not how i'm supposed to be i'm not supposed to be lying to people and i'm not supposed to be

[01:21:27] Manipulating and i'm not supposed to be conniving and sneaky

[01:21:30] But then you realize well, so that's what everyone else is doing. So I have to do the same thing. Yeah

[01:21:36] Yeah, uh venus even said to ew when she was talking about the idol, but it applies there

[01:21:42] I think that's the common theme of the season is I should have just kept my mouth shut

[01:21:47] Now obviously she wouldn't have been as entertaining to so many fans but again, that's not what these rules are about right

[01:21:57] All right, well the sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat

[01:22:01] and for a long time we talked about her continuing to

[01:22:04] Scoot by as a lower level threat. And of course I you know thought she'd be a zero vote finalist for that reason

[01:22:10] When tiffany convinced tevin not to go after venus she pointed out that nobody took her seriously

[01:22:15] So who cared if she mentioned his name?

[01:22:17] Right, and then tiffany added to us venus thinks she's a power player, but she's really not

[01:22:22] I think i'd rather deal with a nuisance than the threat

[01:22:27] Yeah, I mean and I think that there is a lot to be said about making that decision because

[01:22:33] If again, she has nobody

[01:22:36] that's working with her you don't need to worry about what she's going to structure or who she's going to target because

[01:22:42] It will just be venus with this idea

[01:22:44] Even though she might be telling people

[01:22:47] That's not going to be the plan in the end in the end

[01:22:49] It's going to be a different plan that a different group of people are going to put together

[01:22:53] And maybe it was the same plan that venus came up with

[01:22:57] You know, and we saw that happen. Yes, but they were all targeting the same person and so it is one of those situations where

[01:23:06] Unfortunately

[01:23:08] You know, you don't always pull off the moves that you

[01:23:11] Want you think you might have pulled off the move, but you know really in the end

[01:23:17] It might just be the other group that's doing yeah

[01:23:19] Now moving up to this week ben specifically said his reason for wanting venus to go had nothing to do with her being a threat

[01:23:25] She was just causing more and more chaos

[01:23:28] But the thing is causing chaos can be threatening in some situations

[01:23:32] Yes, charlie was trying to build something to move forward

[01:23:35] That group needed to be solid and trustworthy at least, you know to whatever point that means in survivor

[01:23:41] You can't have a wild card in that situation. You can't have someone suddenly revealing that they have something but not telling you what?

[01:23:49] Right venus thought she would build trust with charlie through her revelation

[01:23:54] It had the exact opposite effect and it made her into a potential threat to him

[01:23:58] Yes, and that is something that we've talked about a lot is that you can become a threat

[01:24:04] To other people's games. Yes for different reasons and being someone who creates chaos can definitely be

[01:24:10] A concern hence q being

[01:24:15] Yes

[01:24:16] All right

[01:24:17] Well, we could move to appendix a which is about the players keeping their end goals in mind when voting and we talk about voting

[01:24:21] Out the weak than the strong than the weak than the strong

[01:24:24] We're still at the part of the game where players should typically be targeting strong threats

[01:24:29] In this case, although we just discussed how venus was a threat in certain ways

[01:24:34] I I want to put her at the top of the list right for most people

[01:24:39] But for charlie, well, he was really the deciding factor

[01:24:43] You know, uh, kenzie said to charlie in this episode that it's foolish not to take out the biggest threat in the game while he's vulnerable

[01:24:50] But there are several layers to this

[01:24:52] Is q really the biggest threat in the game can he win the game?

[01:24:57] If not, then he's not the biggest threat in the game overall, right?

[01:25:01] Second charlie doesn't necessarily want the biggest threat out yet because that starts leading people closer to him

[01:25:08] Because he is indeed keeping his end goal in mind as this appendix says

[01:25:13] And we just discussed how venus's perceived chaos could have messed with that end goal and his plan

[01:25:22] Well, and that's an interesting

[01:25:24] Point too because we just talked about how q

[01:25:28] Is creating chaos as well

[01:25:30] But I think the difference between q in the current position he's in

[01:25:35] Is he's tight with maria and maria is tight with charlie

[01:25:39] So there is a little bit of control that exists there for charlie when it comes to q through maria

[01:25:45] But then when you're talking about venus

[01:25:48] There isn't that right there is there's no control and so this is why when you are looking at the two choices

[01:25:55] Chaos bad chaos can definitely be a threat

[01:25:59] But who is more of a threat to charlie in that moment?

[01:26:02] It's the one that he can't control and he has no idea when venus is like i'll tell you later. Trust me

[01:26:08] Really? I'm supposed to trust you now. Yeah, so yes

[01:26:11] I mean, that's what I think the decision really boils down to yeah

[01:26:14] There's a saying that it's on the tip of my tongue right now. Oh, yeah. No, I know it's uh, so when I was going to

[01:26:21] Uh grad school I had been accepted to two schools

[01:26:24] One was the university of illinois where I was already going for undergrad and one was another school actually in upstate new york

[01:26:31] um, we could have been neighbors, uh, but

[01:26:35] Hmm what school alfred university

[01:26:39] Really? Yeah, that's fascinating. Uh, and so

[01:26:42] I was debating which professor to go with

[01:26:47] And in the end my decision came down to

[01:26:51] Because the professor that I was with in undergrad

[01:26:55] He wasn't

[01:26:56] Amazing. He was good, but he had issues or I had some issues with him

[01:27:01] But I didn't know anything about the other professor at all

[01:27:05] And so my choice was better the devil, you know than the devil and the devil you don't exactly

[01:27:11] And in this case, that's what you've got with q and venus better the devil

[01:27:15] You at least know somewhat than the one who's telling you I have something but i'm not going to tell you what it is

[01:27:21] Right, right, right. Mm-hmm

[01:27:25] All right, well we could go to appendix b which is the jury phase and it's clear that

[01:27:29] Some of these players are indeed thinking ahead to who they want to be up against

[01:27:33] when facing the jury

[01:27:35] None of them really seemed to worry about facing venus and we discussed earlier how even she said she was pitching herself as someone who couldn't

[01:27:42] win

[01:27:43] But each person has their own plan on how to get to the end

[01:27:47] Right, right as parley said you're thinking about who are you putting on the jury?

[01:27:51] Who are you leaving in the game to work with you?

[01:27:53] And at this point in the game, who am I going to sit next to at the end and have the jury judge me against?

[01:27:59] Everything has consequences

[01:28:01] Yes

[01:28:02] Yeah, and I think that this is the time that those decisions matter

[01:28:08] so much because you have to

[01:28:12] Not frustrate the people that you're also putting over there

[01:28:15] Right and because they're going to be going into ponderosa talking about

[01:28:19] What you did or what you didn't do or promises that were made and so it is a very very tricky thing

[01:28:25] To maneuver at this point and the fact that charlie is kind of working through the permutations of that

[01:28:30] I think speaks volumes to

[01:28:33] His knowledge of the game his understanding of the game and how he needs to approach every decision that he's making

[01:28:40] Yeah, I mean

[01:28:42] as much as people

[01:28:44] Might have wanted to have venus at the end with them

[01:28:47] They couldn't rely on her helping them get to the end and especially again when it comes to charlie

[01:28:53] right and also

[01:28:55] Just you know to put this out there

[01:28:58] Knowing how venus is

[01:29:02] Viewed or perceived by other people

[01:29:05] Who are at ponderosa who are on the jury?

[01:29:09] Your choice between who do you want to put on the jury?

[01:29:12] Do you want to put venus or do you want to put q q is frustrating everybody too?

[01:29:16] But like if she goes back to ponderosa, how much of a negative impact is that necessarily going to have on your game?

[01:29:22] If it's decided that well charlie's the reason why i'm sitting here

[01:29:27] It might not have that much of an effect on the other people who are in ponderosa if it's coming from venus. Yeah

[01:29:36] All right. Well, it is about time to wrap things up. So what are your final thoughts on venus?

[01:29:41] listen, there was a reason why I was flipping through all of these papers and trying to find what I needed to find because

[01:29:48] There is a very significant

[01:29:50] moment

[01:29:52] That venus provided to us in her pre-game

[01:29:55] Press and that was

[01:29:58] The way she described herself or the way that her friends described her they would describe me as someone with a really tough exterior

[01:30:07] But a secret softy and when she talked about that really tough exterior. She said

[01:30:13] Think regina george from mean girls

[01:30:17] And if anyone is familiar with regina george from mean girls

[01:30:22] That is really not the person you want to be emulating when you're playing the game of survivor

[01:30:27] i'm, just putting that out there and so

[01:30:30] I really did think at the beginning. I there was something about venus that was

[01:30:35] It was mesmerizing. I was like boy, I could really get behind her like she she really

[01:30:41] She's got a presence right? She has a presence about her. She is confident

[01:30:46] She has so many things working in her favor that I was like gosh

[01:30:50] I really want to get behind her and I even said if anyone could pull off a poverty it's her

[01:30:56] Because that is a very difficult balance to find where you can be perceived a particular way

[01:31:02] But you're still able to work it and you're able to make it

[01:31:06] Get you further in the game and I thought boy and then at the beginning when somebody actually said

[01:31:11] She's she's another poverty. We got to watch out for her

[01:31:14] I was like, oh my gosh, here we go. Like this is gonna happen and I was so excited about that

[01:31:19] but again, it is all about the group of people that you are with right and

[01:31:24] She didn't find herself with a group of people that were excited about a poverty beam on their tribe

[01:31:31] and

[01:31:32] That drew concern because everyone has seen how well she plays the game

[01:31:36] And so I do think that she needed to come at this from a different perspective

[01:31:41] Because people have already seen how well

[01:31:44] poverty was able to

[01:31:46] manipulate and

[01:31:49] Be sneaky and pull things off and still get so far and then win

[01:31:53] So I think in a group like this that is so

[01:31:57] Well educated on the game that are super fans that know survivor in and out

[01:32:02] someone like venus walking in and then having this persona and having this confidence and and having this thing about her

[01:32:10] Boy, that's gonna be scary right off the rip, right?

[01:32:13] And so when you have someone like tevin who's on your tribe and he sees this

[01:32:19] I don't blame him for being like I gotta knock her down a few pegs right now because I need

[01:32:24] To be the poverty like I need to be the one that everyone is looking at not her

[01:32:29] And so I really do think that unfortunately for venus

[01:32:34] her own

[01:32:35] Persona and the way that she wanted that people do perceive her as regina george is scary as hell

[01:32:42] And so I don't blame everyone for really kind of going. Oh my goodness, because she didn't soften it

[01:32:50] She didn't try to make it

[01:32:52] Not that way. She leaned in on that regina george type of person

[01:32:58] and

[01:32:59] I think really it caused her

[01:33:02] Very soon demise in this game and then that's just what kind of carried through the whole way for her

[01:33:07] so unfortunately for venus again, I

[01:33:10] Appreciate her advocacy. I love what she wants to do in the world and what she wants to represent all of that's fantastic

[01:33:17] But this is survivor and unfortunately survivor does not play by real world rules

[01:33:24] It's played by david bloomberg's rules and you have to remember that when you're playing survivor and unfortunately, I don't think venus did no

[01:33:34] Well for the past two weeks i've noted that the players who lost should have known they needed to play their idols

[01:33:40] but

[01:33:41] They were fooled or fooled themselves

[01:33:44] And now I have to say it for a third time

[01:33:47] Venus indicated that she knew it was a risk to not play her idol

[01:33:50] But she went with it because she wanted to solidify something going forward

[01:33:54] The problem was that keeping a secret after revealing that she had a secret to keep

[01:33:59] Was exactly the wrong way to solidify something

[01:34:03] I mentioned earlier that venus said if she hadn't had the conversation with charlie where she suggested she had the idol

[01:34:09] She'd still be in the game

[01:34:11] And I do think she's right about that

[01:34:14] But of course, that's not the whole story

[01:34:16] Venus had significant problems integrating both socially and strategically into her original tribe and then into the game as a whole after merge

[01:34:24] Almost every other player said things indicating that they felt she was chaotic untrustworthy

[01:34:30] And or they just couldn't work with her

[01:34:33] some

[01:34:34] Or she sometimes maybe often

[01:34:37] Had good ideas and reads on what would work for her

[01:34:40] But she just didn't have the social or strategic connections the agency to give her the ability to make those things happen

[01:34:49] part of the reason was

[01:34:51] That she was going to speak her mind and tell people what she thought

[01:34:55] That could be admirable in real life and certainly was one reason. She had so many fans

[01:35:00] But survivor is not real life and being that way can just shoot a player's entire game in the foot

[01:35:07] Yes, venus needed to play her idol

[01:35:10] But if she had built solid bonds earlier instead of causing pretty much everyone to worry about playing with her

[01:35:17] She wouldn't have found herself in the situation

[01:35:20] Where she felt she needed to use it in the way she had planned

[01:35:24] And that is why venus lost

[01:35:28] Here we are, you know

[01:35:30] I just need to say this what is with your shirt?

[01:35:33] Oh

[01:35:34] Well, I was going to get to that but uh, so this was I meant to mention it in the chicago thing for people not watching

[01:35:40] the video

[01:35:41] Uh, my shirt says pizza and hot dogs. F. Yeah

[01:35:46] And of course that's a you know a chicago thing pizza and hot dogs, you know, you got chicago style

[01:35:52] But this was actually a quote a tweet from simone biles

[01:35:58] When her husband was signed to the chicago bears recently

[01:36:02] Hmm. Okay. All right, because I was like

[01:36:05] One of my many uh shirts from the obvious shirt store, uh, which I mentioned on the rhap

[01:36:12] Facebook group I was trying to get people to go there, but I did a poor job of

[01:36:16] Organizing it

[01:36:17] Uh and also a poor job of planning it because it was on the opposite side of wrigley field from where we were

[01:36:22] I went there afterwards to visit myself because all of my purchases have been online up to this point

[01:36:29] But yes, this was a special

[01:36:31] obvious shirt

[01:36:33] Okay. All right now that that explains it because i'm like pizza and hot dogs. What is this all about? Yes. Yes

[01:36:39] All right. Well before we get to our predictions for next episode

[01:36:42] I want to remind everyone that the rules we just discussed are available in poster form

[01:36:48] And t-shirt form not obvious t-shirt form just t-shirt form

[01:36:53] And also as a checklist

[01:36:55] So again go to rob has a website.com slash yx lost feed click on whatever you would like to purchase and then

[01:37:03] Do it buy it order everything

[01:37:05] Love it. It's great. So

[01:37:08] It's good deal. Yes. Yes

[01:37:13] So where can people reach us if besides?

[01:37:17] I was just looking at the calendar trying to figure out like what's happening with the rest of

[01:37:22] Because we're down we're gonna be we're down to five right?

[01:37:25] Six five

[01:37:26] Worry about that afterwards. We'll okay. Okay. All right, so

[01:37:31] If you are interested in finding more out about me

[01:37:34] I am at jessicalewis89 on twitter and david bloomberg is at david bloomberg

[01:37:38] I must say he's a little more vocal than I am

[01:37:40] I like to live tweet during the episodes and then I get lost with all of my work stuff during the week

[01:37:45] However, every once in a while I jump in there. So again at jessicalewis89 on instagram

[01:37:50] I'm at jessicalewis6789

[01:37:52] And david bloomberg also has instagram. He also has everything else under the sun that you can imagine

[01:37:57] Hence his link tree in order to find david bloomberg at all of the places that he exists. So david take it away

[01:38:05] Yes, i am at link tree slash david bloomberg in the url. There's a dot before the ee

[01:38:10] Or you can find me more directly on twitter and blue sky is at david bloomberg on threads is at david bloomberg tv

[01:38:17] and i'm at david bloomberg tv there because

[01:38:20] It's connected to instagram and at david bloomberg tv is also my instagram tik tok and youtube

[01:38:27] Name

[01:38:29] On all of those i've been posting two or three videos per day

[01:38:33] Uh right now i'm posting obviously, uh clips from u.s survivor plus shows like the circle which just finished up

[01:38:40] Deal or no deal island, which is about to finish up the goat

[01:38:45] Uh with wendell he's on that that's an amazon prime show and I

[01:38:49] Watched the first three episodes and there are lots of little clippable moments there. So i'm i'm looking forward to that

[01:38:55] uh deal or no deal island

[01:38:58] uh, you know

[01:39:00] boston rob just broke a rule and got in trouble and uh, so I I i'm on uh,

[01:39:06] What was it thursday morning?

[01:39:08] I posted a clip about that and then I went on my way

[01:39:11] I had breakfast with a few people and then drove back home

[01:39:14] And by the time I got home it had like over a hundred thousand views. I'm like, holy moly. So

[01:39:20] Uh, so yes, apparently people like to see boston rob breaking the rules or they're mad at it either way they view it

[01:39:27] So that's what counts. That's great

[01:39:29] But again, you can find everything at link tree slash david bloomberg. You're just so everywhere. I love it

[01:39:35] I try it. I try to be

[01:39:37] um

[01:39:39] All right. Now it's time for predictions

[01:39:41] And I realized so there's six people left. I did the math. Yes. Yes. Okay

[01:39:46] The preview showed us that next week q said he needs a storm which makes sense because as we've talked about he thrives in chaos

[01:39:54] Charlie says he has to vote out maria

[01:39:57] Ben thinks it'll be his favorite blind side of the season and maria is lying down crying and saying something died in her today

[01:40:05] Yeah, if I had to guess

[01:40:07] I'd say the maria thing is an early clip. That's a reaction to the response. She got from liz and venus regarding her pizza reward decision

[01:40:17] Which by the way pizza and hot dogs would also make a good reward, um

[01:40:23] F yeah, uh

[01:40:27] And they probably still wouldn't take liz but um

[01:40:31] She might be allergic. You don't know

[01:40:33] She can eat meat. She can eat beef

[01:40:36] Could you eat pizza

[01:40:39] Gluten-free she's allergic to wheat not gluten. But see this is the so she couldn't eat pizza

[01:40:43] Yes, she could because gluten-free when they say gluten-free they don't use wheat

[01:40:48] But was the pizza gluten-free? Yes

[01:40:51] Oh, okay. Jeff even said it was oh, I don't I don't remember that part. I'm, so very sorry

[01:40:56] This is why I was checking with you. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the clarification david

[01:41:02] gosh

[01:41:04] Jeez jessica

[01:41:06] How can you not listen to jeff? Come on because i'm too busy tweeting unlike you I was tweeting. Yes. Yes

[01:41:13] um

[01:41:14] You know what? I noticed on the big screen for the first time ever

[01:41:18] in the intro

[01:41:19] There's a big wave at the beginning and it has a 46 super imposed on the face of the wave

[01:41:26] Oh, really?

[01:41:27] Never noticed that before and all the times I watched on tv

[01:41:30] It took watching it on a giant screen to notice that and I whispered it to the person next to me

[01:41:35] And they said I didn't notice it either

[01:41:37] That's fascinating. I'll have to pay attention. Yeah. All right duly noted. Okay

[01:41:43] Anyway, all of what I mentioned seems to be a bunch of dramatic things that don't actually play into the decision

[01:41:50] except for what ben said

[01:41:52] Because I think he was clearly not talking about maria as was implied by the placement of the quote

[01:41:57] I think he was talking about queue. Um because

[01:42:03] We have found through various ways mostly, uh interviews and and the like

[01:42:09] We haven't really seen it but q and ben have not gotten along like ben has been the target of q

[01:42:17] That is fair yeah, there was some commentary about that in

[01:42:21] Was it even in venus was mentioning it too? I feel like I don't remember for sure. But yeah

[01:42:26] Um, yeah, so I could definitely see ben saying this would be the you know, the sweetest blind side or whatever it was

[01:42:33] um

[01:42:34] It was supposed to be q this week

[01:42:36] And now it's even more imperative to get him out. So maria's power is reduced

[01:42:41] I think they will follow through this time and we will say goodbye to the q skirt

[01:42:47] the q skirt

[01:42:50] What a silly idea watch him become like a millionaire because of it he's already a millionaire

[01:42:56] Okay. Well

[01:42:57] A multi-million, I don't know whatever he's gonna make more money. He and uh, he and liz can can sell them together

[01:43:06] I don't see the two of them selling anything together personally, but yeah, no

[01:43:10] well, and I I do feel like

[01:43:15] This is so this is so troubling

[01:43:18] Ben's fine. I think liz is fine

[01:43:21] I worry about charlie, but he seems to be so liked by so many people that I

[01:43:27] I don't feel like he's going to have anything to worry about

[01:43:31] kenzie is

[01:43:34] Not necessarily fine, but like and q is just as we've discussed is very much chaotic

[01:43:43] Oh goodness, and I feel like q is going to be that person that there's an interesting thing happening with q, right?

[01:43:50] You don't want him to take that third seat

[01:43:52] Which I despise that there is a third seat even available

[01:43:55] But anyway, so you don't want him to take that third seat

[01:43:58] but also I feel like there's there's this thing about q that makes him very scary because

[01:44:05] We've talked about is he playing the game at a different level that no one has ever played at and that's why

[01:44:10] It's working for him and I don't think that's what he's doing. I think he's playing the game at a different level

[01:44:15] it's just not a

[01:44:18] It's not a level level it yeah, like he didn't decide that like this is what i'm gonna do it's like this is what he's doing

[01:44:24] But it's not because right. I like when he says i'm a game changer

[01:44:27] I don't think this is what he meant when he said game changer

[01:44:30] And so it would be fascinating

[01:44:33] If that's what it turned into in a final three where he was like

[01:44:37] Ha ha, you know like he is like I I said that david wright was a kaiser

[01:44:41] So say maybe q really is the kaiser. So say where all of a sudden he's going to be like guess what everyone?

[01:44:47] I knew what I was doing all along. He may say it, but I think he would be more a uh,

[01:44:53] Australian survivor christy in that situation. Yeah. Yeah, so

[01:44:58] Oh goodness

[01:45:05] I

[01:45:06] I don't want to say it's q. I don't

[01:45:09] I don't want to say it's q

[01:45:11] I want to say well i'm not going to say it's every anybody but q. Oh, come on. No

[01:45:17] No, fine maria

[01:45:21] Okay, i'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna say maria i'm gonna go for it because I want q to be that guy

[01:45:29] I want to see what happens. I do. I want to see I want to see what happens

[01:45:35] Okay

[01:45:36] All right

[01:45:37] Well as we wrap up I want to encourage people to check out the rjp patron program at robhaswebsite.com slash patron

[01:45:43] Get access to all the special podcasts that are put out just for patrons plus the facebook groups and discord and of course

[01:45:49] Early access to things like tickets for live shows

[01:45:54] You can support shows like ours and everything on the network by becoming a patron at robhaswebsite.com slash patron

[01:46:01] Also, make sure you're subscribed to all the reality tv rehab ups podcasts by going to robhaswebsite.com

[01:46:07] Slash rehab ups feeds and selecting your podcast service of choice

[01:46:11] You will get all of the different rehab ups, uh, including the survivor ones like us obviously, uh,

[01:46:17] The b&b survivor international and also podcasts on a number of other shows and topics, uh, like

[01:46:23] Uh big brother canada just ended it literally ended while we were in the theater

[01:46:27] I think uh, I think it was ending at the same time people were on their phones like oh my god

[01:46:31] I can't believe this just happened. Um

[01:46:34] I don't know what happened. I I didn't watch it

[01:46:37] but uh, so but if you know people here

[01:46:41] If they're watching or we're watching it and you want to know what happened

[01:46:43] Well, all the exit interviews are in the rehab ups feed. So, you know go there and subscribe

[01:46:50] That's right, and we should thank everyone

[01:46:53] For all of the content not only that is created by our hap ups but all the work that goes into create that content

[01:46:58] So scott st. Pierre and his team do all of the editing not just for wide-blind gloss

[01:47:02] But for all of the content that you've just heard described by david bloomberg

[01:47:05] So thank you to each and every one of them for the incredible work that you do

[01:47:09] Putting all of this together such quick turnarounds and so much content. It's incredible to see how much it's growing

[01:47:16] And how much bigger it has become so thank you rob for doing this for everyone and for creating such an incredible platform

[01:47:25] Yes, and thank you jessica for another great episode

[01:47:28] Uh one more thank you to everybody in chicago

[01:47:32] And to rob and sam for bringing the live show there. I know it was a lot of work

[01:47:36] Um, you know, we will see everyone next week here and of course you can find me online

[01:47:44] Everywhere before then. Bye. Thank you david. And thank you for all the listeners

[01:47:49] Bye

[01:47:50] Bye

[01:48:06] This is why blank loss

[01:48:29] Okay round two name something that's not boring a laundry

[01:48:35] Oh a book club

[01:48:36] computer solitaire, huh

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