The Weekend Program: Josh and Antonio Talk Survivor 48 Premiere + Survivor 50 Voting

[00:00:25] Welcome back to The Weekend Program here on RHAP. We know Scripted TV and sometimes we know Reality TV as well, such as the case with this week's episode of The Weekend Program where every single weekend myself and the great Antonio Mazzaro get together to go to the attic of RHAP and talk about what's going on in TV.

[00:00:47] This week we are talking about the premiere, the return of Survivor, Survivor 48 as well as some big news in the Survivor 50 of it all in the hands of the fans. And Antonio and I, of course, are nothing if not people with hands. So we shall use them to place votes and talk to you about what's going on over there and all things Survivor. I'm Josh Wigler. That's Antonio. How you doing, sir?

[00:01:16] I'm voting my ass off still always obviously. Yeah, no, I'm excited about the Survivor vote. Got to vote. It's not a vote. It's no you have to vote. It's so important to vote. Yes, I'm if you're if you are in line to vote for Survivor stay in line, stay in line, stay in line. I'm really excited about the Survivor vote. I'm really excited about a new season of Survivor. You said 48. It's so crazy that we are this close to Survivor 50.

[00:01:42] We will have it within a year. 50 seasons of Survivor on CBS. Do you think if I told young Josh Wigler, young Survivor fan, Josh Wigler way back in the day, there would be 50 seasons of the show. You think you would have believed it? I guess it depends on which younger version of me. Is this a younger version of me like as like a college kid or is like 18 year cocky freshman at Syracuse University? Josh Wigler. I was going to say if it was a younger version of me, that's like a little boy.

[00:02:09] I don't know what that show is. You know, exactly. Why are you talking to me? You weird time traveling guy. I don't think so. I don't think I would have thought that at all. I would have thought that at some point, like everything else, this show would end and maybe it just never will. Who knows? Keeps the lights on around here. So no complaints in our corner of the woods, especially when I think this episode was really fun.

[00:02:34] And I'm feeling I'm feeling pretty, pretty good about what we're going to get into talking about it all today. And the stuff with 50, I think is very it's somewhere between fun and funny to me. So I'm looking forward to chewing on all of that as well. Antonio, of course, major apologies. We missed the weekend program last weekend entirely on me. We were going to talk about the White Lotus, which premiered just a short while ago in February.

[00:03:03] We will deliver on a White Lotus weekend program on the other side of the White Lotus season three. We will revisit that and perhaps Antonio at that point will know whether or not the White Lotus season four will be set in Palm Beach or Norway. We're subjecting that to a fan vote, right? Absolutely subjecting that to a fan. Yes. We have no choice. We must vote. We must vote. It is so important to vote.

[00:03:28] Antonio, if people do not know that we do this podcast every week, I just want them to know that we do this podcast every week. It comes out on Saturdays. We talk about scripted TV. We talk about all the things that we really enjoy. You can subscribe the weekend program dot com. Go to the weekend program dot com. You will find all of the links with which to subscribe to this podcast feed. And if you want to go the extra mile for all things RHAP, we know scripted.

[00:03:53] Go to we know scripted TV dot com for the subscriber links there. Antonio, as we begin, where shall we begin with the return of Survivor for its 48 season? Yes. But if you want to feel really old, Antonio, I was just talking to the great Mike Bloom about his preseason experience as an RHAP patron exclusive podcast. He took me behind the scenes and I had only a little bit of FOMO. I have grown. I've matured.

[00:04:22] But as as we had that conversation, we came to the realization that this isn't just Survivor 48, Antonio. It's Survivor Cook Islands, 35 at this point. Oh, my gosh. How brutal is that? The 35th iteration of Survivor Cook Islands, which is nuts. Survivor Cook's Island. Yes. Let them cook. Let them cook. That is that is crazy. And it's crazy that you're talking to Mike Bloom about his experience going out to Fiji.

[00:04:52] Not that it's his first time. It certainly isn't. But I mean, how many years ago were you doing it for the first time? This is just wild to see the way that Survivor grows. I was thrilled to see that there's just all sorts of coverage coming from all corners of the RHAP community about Survivor. And I always love Mike's content. I read Mike's interview with Joe, who was instantly one of my favorite castaways, of course, for this season. And it was crazy because I could hear Mike's voice and I could absolutely absolutely hear Joe's voice as well.

[00:05:22] And Mike's preseason content is just so good as I was yours. So, I mean, I just love all the stuff that's out there. I feel like a very proud papa. I feel like I like I texted Mike the other night and said, dude, I'm so proud of you. And I hope that doesn't come across as pedantic. But this is like the closest I've felt to being a big brother, being super proud of his little brother. And I was just I'm over the moon with how how Mike's career is going and whatever small part I played in that I'm thrilled by. But he's just killing it.

[00:05:51] But I didn't read any shit. I read none of this stuff because I don't engage the preseason stuff anymore. I don't either. You know, is ironic, I suppose, on the other side of like living and breathing that stuff once upon a while.

[00:06:05] But I'm really liking just like kind of coming into these seasons cold and learning the people as we go to the degree that like I was trying to think like if I had to just start naming people from this season off the top of my head without looking, how many could I get right now? And I don't think I could get half the cast. Yeah, that's pretty. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. This is the thing. Younger Antonio Mazzaro might have been judgmental about the ways that people would have engaged with this show.

[00:06:33] I mean, we've both been guilty of and there are plenty of people that Antonio or is that Antonio before you knew? Oh, wait. Same guy. Same guy. Yeah, same guy. No, listen, this ultimately like we've all been guilty of throwing around the word casual as a derogatory term. But I at this point in my survivor fandom feel like everyone who engages with the survivor show is part of my tribe. Like we all share something in common. We're all fans of this thing.

[00:06:58] And one of the things I've really loved about seeing them really push more diversity in casting is that we are seeing that writ large. Like, oh, you know, in a world that tells us and points out and wants to put us into buckets and tell us all the ways in which we're different. Here are Canadians coming onto the show. Here are people from all sorts of different backgrounds really merging and showing this is their show. And Survivor has leaned in on casting people who love the show, casting people who have been trying to get on the show for a long time.

[00:07:27] They've turned around, as we're saying, with season 50 and asked us to put it in the hands of the fans and let us have a choice on it. But I also loved because they're casting people who love the show. I love seeing up top in this season, the reactions to people real time, finding out that they made it, that they were part of the cast. Yeah, the Zoom calls. It was cute. Yes. Yes, it was very cute. And they want to find ways to make this like visually and narratively distinct anymore because we're just in Fiji and Finland.

[00:07:56] So like the openings for each season, I think that they've done a really admirable job of like having sort of like memorable first moments. I know it gets mocked a lot, but 41 probes to walk into the camera like, hey, I missed you guys. Like, I thought that was really cute and fun or opening on Carolyn for 44 and like just presaging that she would become an icon in reality TV, let alone Survivor. And here with the with the Zoom calls, you know, keeping it different. I think it's good.

[00:08:24] Right. I think they went a long time being worried about breaking the fourth wall a little bit or letting people know that production was part of the game. The TV cameras were there, but the idea that they were present on the show was really not something that they have typically leaned in on. And the times that they have, like burying Dan Foley with the sequence at the finale there has really been like, wow, I can't believe they did that. They've never done that sort of thing before.

[00:08:50] And then we started hearing maybe some like spare moments from producers where we heard them asking questions of contestants and confessional because it was additive because it contextualized what they were being asked and made their response funnier. And it's like, oh, I never really thought about that. Just watching as a casual viewer at home that there's a producer prodding them along and asking these questions. And now we see it as part of the show sometimes. And so a natural next step is to show this before the game even starts.

[00:09:17] They've been working with somebody in casting and somebody's been talking to them and probably has been helping shepherd them through the process. And then that person gets to deliver the good news, the producer or the casting person. That's so awesome. And it really like it was really representative and endemic of an episode that leaned in on the heartstrings, not overdone in a schmaltzy way. But I think they've got some really emotional players who have made some very quick bonds in this season.

[00:09:43] And to show some of that emotion up top didn't hurt because we were going to show it some more in this episode as well. And not in a negative way, you know, where somebody comes out and is in a little over their head and has an early meltdown, which we sometimes see on this show. What we saw was like positive emotional bonds being formed by a lot of people and some notable ones. And I thought that was very much in keeping with the way that they had this up top, these emotional moments. I'm fine with like natural emotion being a big part of the show.

[00:10:10] You mentioned having to change the visual language of the show because they're in Fiji all the time. I think also shortening the season and leaving it in Fiji has had to have them change a lot of the language of the show, of the storytelling, of the pacing, of all of that. It changes all of that in the game. So it naturally changes how the game is going to be reflected and how they want to talk about it.

[00:10:31] And I just think that finding new ways to feature that emotion, emotion that maybe isn't as present from them being worn down on day 34 and not fed is cool. I really think it's cool. And I think it's really great to see like strong men like Joe just crying right away and seeing that this means something even to the big guy, the former college football player. And I loved what he said. My kids are going to be so proud of me.

[00:10:57] I needed this so badly. That's a 45 year old man that I mean, every time I've seen Joe, I've watched the episode twice. I've tried both times. Yeah. Yeah. He really got to me. Yeah. The Joe and Eva stuff was was a hit in my house. I was great. I was telling you before we even came on that my wife, the great Emily Fox, previously on the weekend program and certainly future guests of the weekend program as well. If we're lucky. Watched if we're lucky. Watched this episode with me.

[00:11:25] And she doesn't watch Survivor. And she had a fun time. She's watching it with Christopher Walken now. It was watching Survivor. And we were both like really misty about the not Giles about fields and fields. So we fields about Eva and Joe really, really got us both. Yeah. So it's nice that like this show still has that gear for sure.

[00:11:52] And as long as the show has this gear, honestly, you know, it's been it's been close to it's almost it's been it's been a little bit over five years since I walked away from it as a as a professional covering the show, which is a lot to think about that five years have passed since then. But I think like that version of me back then, in addition to being like upset about things to like rightfully be upset about,

[00:12:18] I think that I would I was like I was the kind of Survivor viewer that got like really mad about the edge of extinction and these themes. You're just like coming up with nothing. Like, what are we going to do moving forward? Get out of Fiji. And now I'm on the other side of all of that and like time away from watching the show and having like binged the seasons to get back on board for the real time of 47, which was such a delight for me.

[00:12:42] I think that I found my feeling is like as long as they want to keep making it, you know, and as long as they keep it, as long as they want to keep making it, if they want to keep making it like this, you know, the 20s. 20s. What is it? 26 day format. Stay in Fiji forever. As long as it's still, you know, filled with interesting people. I really think just keep going. Keep cooking. Did this episode blow me away? No, it definitely didn't.

[00:13:11] But was it like super fun, like easy viewing, comfort viewing type stuff? A million percent. So the review is positive here, first and foremost. But we should talk about the specifics and talk about some of the things that have happened. And Tony, we already have an immunity idol on the board. We've got alliances being made. Where do you want to begin on on Survivor 48 premiere? It's interesting that you say like make it forever.

[00:13:41] They're still in Fiji. Cast interesting people. All of that is true. But if you sat down and you wanted to talk about like what right away felt unique about this season of Survivor, I think it would be hard to come up with a lot. We could talk about, for example, how the beware advantage turned into the idol and the nature of that puzzle. Right. The codex and finding letters that corresponded to colors. Open up this bike lock. Yeah. Right. Yes. Open up this bike lock by solving three other puzzles. Yeah.

[00:14:11] And listen, that's better than just finding a be that is not an advantage. Beware advantage. And just having the paper in your hand, like having to work for it once you found it and losing the vote, of course, is something they've had to iterate on. And that's where we're at with it right now. I don't have a lot to say. Every season of Survivor, they're going to play around with that sort of stuff differently. For me, my level of frustration with Survivor curing that has been about changing my relationship with the show.

[00:14:35] Like instead of just saying like, oh, my God, this is so broken and focusing cynically on things I liked before that were different. I just try to take each new twist as it comes and decide whether I like it or not based on its own merits. And so it will it be interesting to see all three tribes go through the beware advantage symbol to string to letter kind of thing? And is everybody's going to be similar, a little different? I don't know. I don't really put a lot of stock in caring too much about that right now.

[00:15:04] But that was certainly present in the first episode. This beware advantage bingo, if you will, with the bike lock. I don't know. Is it better than finding an idol and just being done and having an idol in your hand? Is it was that fun? Was it was it like good TV? I don't I don't know the answer. You know what I liked about it? Because I do think it was good TV for me. OK, I really enjoyed it. Go off, King.

[00:15:26] I liked it because how many times have we seen like a group be if only for now, but a group be in lockstep about finding the idol and keeping it a secret from like just a couple of people right now? I know like it's it sucks for it certainly sucked for Stephanie and it looks like it won't be good for Mary. If a Mary man, if they go back to tribal, I'm just going to call him Green Tribe. Don't know the names.

[00:15:56] Do not care. I think this one's Vula, though. Right. I think this is the Vula tribe. I don't know. This guy. It doesn't matter to me that like it's bad for Mary certainly right now. But I really loved what was it? It was it's Thomas. It's Cedric. It's say. And there's one other person in this is the pizza man.

[00:16:18] Justin Justin pizza boy that I like seeing the four of them working together on this, not knowing each other at all and really learning each other's like metal and worth. And like, is your word worth anything? Can I trust you? And like proof positive in the pudding by like figuring all of that out together, being genuinely happy for this woman when she goes and gets the thing. I liked it. It felt unique.

[00:16:46] I can't think of another time where it's been like a group of four people this early on working together in lockstep about like such an important piece of the game or can be at least with an idol. And just like doing that very peacefully in like kind of an undramatic way, which sounds counterintuitive that like, wait, you thought that was interesting? I'm like, yeah, because I haven't really seen much of that on this show before. It wasn't like an isolated pursuit.

[00:17:14] It wasn't one person trusts only one other person. And this like coconut bandit ish pair goes off and works together. It was a it was a quad. We went to the quad up to the gymnasium here with these four people. And I thought that that was great. I really liked it. Some of that is because the new game of Survivor plays so fast, right?

[00:17:36] So a lot of people look at Stephanie, a player who has a confessional during the episode where she says, you know, I'm I'm a leader. I'm in charge of things in my life. So the thing I'm going to try to do out here is not boss people around. I'm going to sit on my hands. I'm going to let the thing come to me rather than come off as domineering or controlling. I'm mixing up her words a little bit, but that was the vibe. Right. Yeah. And so what happens? The game passes her by. She does not end up in that for she ends up on the outs of it and she's gone.

[00:18:05] She's balanced. And so the lesson is like there is no letting the game kind of come to you and easing into a modern season of Survivor when there is an advantage in play and an immunity idol has been grabbed before the first tribal council. You can't sit back and wait to let the game come to you and wait to see what alliances you can trust and that form around you and that connect with things.

[00:18:27] You have to absolutely get right there on the beach and start playing, which I don't love and certainly does not cater to how I felt like I would feel like I would play if I were out there. But I definitely get it. Like, I certainly get it. And so I think the four people working together is also part and parcel of the fact that say was just running around instantly saying, is this a three? Is this a three? Can we three talk? Like, what about you? Are you in on this? And she tries to talk to Mary and Stephanie and they're both like, eh.

[00:18:55] And I forget what she calls them, but it's very funny. I think I forget exactly what she calls them, but hoochie mamas, I think she says. So these hoochie mamas are not really focused on the game right now. And it's like, yeah. And look what happens. You say there's a four and those two aren't in it. They needed to hit the beach running and they did not. So I do think that that is an advantage is an interesting way to expose that and to show that that's the rules of the game right now. You got to be getting connected quickly. Yeah.

[00:19:25] Or you could be in real trouble. And some of that is three tribes. Are you kind of done with the three tribe format at this point? Because it can expose things like this. I mean, this is something we've known for forever. Yes. That if you're in a tribe of six, one of you is really in a bad spot. So where are you at with where we're at with three tribes at this point? Do you think that three tribes compared with the breakneck speed of Fiji is maybe not the best mix? Well, I hope we get to vote on this in the future.

[00:19:51] I don't know if we're going to be able to vote on two tribes versus three tribes, but I would certainly be a vote for two tribes. No question in my mind. Not that I hate three tribes. And I think once upon a time, I really liked three tribes if there was a really good reason for it. But I do think like, you know, I have come to the to the place of like not overthinking it and feeling like the 40s are just like one Uber season. I think I talked about that when you and I talked about 47 once upon a while.

[00:20:18] So like I get it that there's a little bit of like a samey samey vibe. And we're just like re-simulating each season and like making slight adjustments. The big change being the people each time. I get it. I think that this thing that we're talking about with these four people working together in concert is one of the first things that I've enjoyed about the modern three tribe situation.

[00:20:44] Because just like at least in my memory, my memory of this stuff isn't as good as it used to be anymore, especially for these recent seasons that I had to binge. Like I can't really remember it sort of like being that cooperative. So that at least felt interesting to me. And I kind of don't care about Stephanie or Mary yet because it's the first episode. So I care about Mary. How dare you? If it's the two of them on the outs and like I don't really care.

[00:21:08] But does it suck that like it looks like short of one of these people just bombing and coming like this? Like if like say ends up getting on Cedric's nerves and they just want to blind sight or and flush the idol out. If that ends up happening or something to that effect, that's like Mary's way through. Otherwise, if this tribe goes back to tribal, probably a boring episode too.

[00:21:32] So I do think that like that like predictability of who's going to go home, like the danger is just so real. And the few places to hide is still kind of frustrating for me. And I think especially with an all-star season on the line with 50, I just think it's better when you can like consolidate them a bit more. The two tribes just works better for me. I like you. I'm in on two tribes.

[00:21:57] And I think it's because I want to see a game where the like the modern greats like Emily Flippen, who have come into the game and maybe had a little bit of a rough start, have the ability to find their feet. And that's not always the case in a three tribe format. I mean, obviously, Emily gets through and she becomes a queen and we love it. But that there's a very good possibility that if things had gone the wrong way at the wrong time too early in the season, she'd have been out. Yeah.

[00:22:25] And I think that that's so I think that that getting that out of the mix is always a very good thing to me. And there have been time. I mean, we almost lost Sari on a six person tribe vote in her very first season. We didn't almost lose her because she was a murderer when she walked onto that island and she had no time for was it was it Timbertina? I can't remember. It was Timbertina. And that was an interesting season because it was four tribes at the start of four people each, which I don't think we ever did again. Right. Thank God.

[00:22:55] But yes, we've seen how smaller tribes can really change, you know, possibly jeopardize the games of the true great. So I would rather have two where it's easier to hide. That said, I do kind of take a little bit of issue with you thinking it's done for Mary because one of the great. So there were three kind of great pairs that we immediately leaned on or maybe four if you want to count all of them. But of course, you mentioned Joe and Eva, which is the one that really pulled at all our heartstrings.

[00:23:21] We had of course, we had that very funny moment where Kevin and Mary start to bond. He's come back. His shoulders hurt. He's worked really hard. And then Mary just like, what do you think? As soon as other people walk away? I love Mary. I absolutely love her. And so like they immediately bond and they say they're two. So we've got Kevin in on the four and Kevin is comparing notes with Justin. Like those two are on the same page. So if it comes down that like Mary is out, I think say many people want on the way out.

[00:23:51] And for the reasons you said, and because there have been other bonds that were formed that might supersede them. And so I'm just curious to see where this goes. I also really loved Camilla and Kyle bonding over the departed and holes. Yes, I was surprised to see so many people loved holes. Dig woman. Yes. Yeah. But of course, the departed being one of my comfort viewings. I was thrilled about it.

[00:24:21] And the names of those people, it's Kyle and Camilla. Is that right? Kyle and Camilla. Yeah. The great Kevin Mahadeo, who is Guyanese, was thrilled to see two Guyanese people. This is what I'm saying. Yes. Yes. This is just really it was a great likely unexpectedly bond over holes in the departed. And then it's like, wait, we both have Guyanese heritage. Like this is such a small country. And there are so few people that it's so great to bond like that on the island. So I love seeing the way that.

[00:24:50] And of course, we had the California girls, which is three people. But I love seeing the way we had some of these early bonds forming. And in six person tribes, two is a significant number. That's a very significant. That's one third of the votes with two people. So you only need one more for half the votes. So I really like seeing the way that we got a little bit of content about like close alliances or bonds that had formed on three separate tribes. And in the case of the purple tribe, I think they're purple.

[00:25:17] We had not just Joe bonding with Eva, but we had the California girls alliance with Thomas and with Shaheen and with and with Joe. So there there are these great things that are forming. You I don't I'm trying to shut my brain off not to read into the edit and determine it that way. I'm not shading the people that do for my own personal enjoyment. I like to not focus on that. If I can shut that part of my brain off, I'm happy. But I mean, there's a reason why we got the stories that we got in the first episode.

[00:25:46] I'm concerned, of course, that Kevin's shoulder is going to pop back out because we did see it happen in the challenge. They could have not shown us that. Well, they they did redact quite a bit. This was also I've heard from Mike that it was a really big deal out there and like them having to pop it back in. It was like a whole whole thing. And none of that made it on. And so I speculated with Mike when we were doing our patron show. So I feel like that means that like it won't be that big of a deal.

[00:26:13] Like his shoulder probably won't be the thing that plays too hard into his story overall. That being said, we have seen, especially in the new era, the shoulders come back to haunt you. Yes. Sorry, Professor Strunk. We don't want to we don't want to relive difficult moments for anyone. But yeah, I mean, of course, you can't shut your brain off. So you wonder like, well, if so, if that was cut, but we saw some of it, why did we see any of it? Does that mean Kevin's going to go further in this game?

[00:26:41] So it's important for us to know right from the top what adversity he's dealt with. Should we make it seem like adversity so that he has a better story? Like we are watching a TV show. So it's hard to shut your brain off entirely. And when we talk about scripted TV here on the weekend program, and certainly in the past, we do that. We analyze every little bit that we see. You guys are doing a great job at the We Know Severance podcast of doing this. Analyze every little bit that you see and extrapolate from what you see and why you're seeing it, what that might mean for the future.

[00:27:10] So it's hard not to on a scripted TV podcast and scripted TV milieu read into the Survivor edit. But I try not to do that. And I let myself go into like the emotions of the storytelling, which I think is what Survivor wants me to do. And Survivor wants us to go on an adventure. It wants us to feel like it's an adventure. Jeff up top, I thought, did one of the better jobs that he has done at really grasping at how this is actually a classic hero's journey for someone.

[00:27:39] Someone heard the call. They answered the call to adventure. They crossed the threshold. They did all these hero things. They had a thing they wanted. They went out and they got it and they came back having changed. Like they went through, somebody is going to go through the whole cycle of this. And I thought Jeff did a really good job of like setting that up. Like you guys heard the call. You thought I was talking to you. That's what each of you has in common. And you're here now. I like that. Let's make Survivor really feel, that's how it used to feel for sure. Like an adventure.

[00:28:05] They were going to, you know, some unique area and there were intrepid castaways who were going to be forced to figure out a way to live and form a new quote unquote society in whatever world this was dealing with whatever elements that part of the world was giving them. Whether it's Africa where they have a really hard time getting water or whether it's later seasons where they have to deal with terrible weather. There are just different things that the locations have brought them that made it feel a little more adventurous.

[00:28:32] And of course, going back to Fiji every time, it can be difficult. So I think it is important that we focus on each individual's reason for being there and why it feels like an adventure for them. Well, it's also because for them, you know, like I don't think that they're complaining that they're not like 100 percent. You know, they're not in Australia. Absolutely. They're not in China. They're not in Africa. Like for them, they're going to Hogwarts, you know, like the fact that Fiji is used so often should not diminish their experience. Right. Exactly.

[00:29:01] So so I think what you're saying, though, is like if we're going to recapture that spirit of adventure, you got to lens it through the people. Yes. Yep, exactly. And so I like that that seems to be what they're doing on the season. Yeah, that I know more about each individual stories. And I think the more that you get that kind of content from as many players in the game, the less easy it becomes to read into the edit because everybody is getting a robust three dimensional portrayal or a two dimensional portrayal.

[00:29:28] It is still television on what they have experienced out there. We're still seeing some version of everyone's experience and everyone feels valid and feels part of it and feels connected to it. One of the things I love that they're putting up for a vote to bring back for 50 that I think will win in a landslide is the live reunion show back in Los Angeles, because for me, that is such a significant part of the adventure. Now, I said earlier that one person is going to have this hero's journey. But the truth is they all are right.

[00:29:55] They all have become heroic by getting up off the couch, by subjecting themselves to this, by testing themselves, by putting themselves through it. I'm not saying they're heroes like they are in their everyday lives, if they're a firefighter or a nurse or a doctor or whatever. I'm saying that they have gone out and done the thing. They've done the thing. Sari always talked about getting off the couch and really trying to get on the show. They've gone out and done it, even if it didn't end the way they wanted to. They did the thing. So I love to hear from the people all those months later about how doing the thing has affected their life.

[00:30:25] What have they changed? What is their life like now? What are they experiencing? What do they take from their experience? I love that. And I want to see that at a live reunion. And I think it's a shame that if we lean in on all these people and I really get to know them better and I understand and appreciate the depth of their story, that we don't get that coda, that epilogue, that final live reunion moment, especially with the people who go out before the merch or before the jury, I should say.

[00:30:51] That's the part where it's like these people all contributed to making the season. For somebody that was the person they saw that was like, hey, that's me out there. So we should not not hear from them when the season's over. I want to hear from everybody. So if we're going to lean on the people in Fiji, I hope one of the lessons learned if it is a landslide vote for a live finale is let's find the budget and bring that back. Let's just do that. We're doing live events again. The reason we stopped doing it was because of COVID in part. So let's bring it back, man. Let's bring it back.

[00:31:22] Before we move on to the fan vote, which I think we both have some thoughts and would like to talk about in greater detail. One last question for you about 48 specifically. I know you said you don't want to analyze the editor or anything, but do you still do a winner pick? Like, are you a winner pick guy? Do you make one? Do you like to have a rooting interest here? I thought about that. I like my rooting interest to develop, I think now more than anything is.

[00:31:50] So I like to bond with someone that I see on screen, understand how they're responding to whatever adversity is facing them and grow in admiration for them or not. I don't want to just sink my teeth in without really taking in all that preseason content. I'll tell you that I would love to see Joe win. I don't think he's going to. The reason the reason that I think I would love to see him win is because he's come out and talked about how he wants to play this like old school game and make the new school game work.

[00:32:20] Shape and mold the new school game around his desire to play with loyalty and honesty. And we know that that's sort of a death sentence for Survivor. And I didn't love all of his answers he gave in his interview to Mike. It's like it's one of his favorite players is like, oh, definitely Gabler. Like immediately says Gabler. And I'm like, OK, that's fine. That's fine. But I mean, his reasons were valid. I'm not going to diminish that. But he didn't like him because of his gameplay, per se. He liked him because he was unique and because he was honest about the charity and he followed through on it.

[00:32:50] And that was a big cause for him. And so I appreciate that. I can respect that. But it would be very interesting to me to see somebody try to play this old school way and win a new school season. We're in a world now. The Survivor world has changed beneath us in the span of 10 years where like Rachel goes last season. She is essentially the winner because she can't be beaten. She wins immunity after immunity. She has an advantage or an idol when she needs it. And just dominant performance.

[00:33:18] The kind of performance that as her own castmates have observed, she may have turned her nose up at it in the past. She may not have said these are the best winners. And now you can play like that and still be considered dominant. And I love that about the new school game. Like we have room for every different kind of winner. And we're willing to respect that if you win the game of Survivor, you did something right out there. It's a jury vote. And there's so many things that are subject to chance, to luck, to all of these things. That if you win the game of Survivor, you did something right out there.

[00:33:48] And so I love that we're in a world where we can have respect for different kinds of games now. I just wonder jury-wise how that will play. And I wonder if you can even make it to the final three if that's your game. Unless you've had some agency over moves that have been made. Because are people going to respect that? Or are you going to be seen as somebody who got dragged to the end because they were loyal and doesn't have a lot to say about why that means they should be the winner? So I would love to see Joe win because of the real emotion that I've seen for him.

[00:34:16] And knowing that he's playing for his deceased sister, who he had such a survivor bond with. And who lost her life in a sad and untimely way. And it sounds like it's really upset him and weighed on him. Changed his relationship with the show. Made him want to go out and win for not just him, but for her. This is all stuff that is really resonant to me. And so I would love to see that. Not just because he really connected with me or I really connected with him.

[00:34:43] But because I think it would be really interesting to see somebody win a modern season of Survivor. The way that he's described he wants to play. And I don't know if the dominoes are there for him to do it. But his tribe looks really good to me. So I could see a four forming in that group. And sticking together for a really long time. Or even a five. I can see those people really dominating this game. And to wit, I will point out that when RHAP did the draft. Their Survivor draft recently. I think four members of that tribe were among the first six picks or five picks.

[00:35:13] And so there's just a lot of love for the people on that tribe. And I think that if that tribe continues to do well in challenges. And I see no reason to expect why they wouldn't. And it's possible four or even a bonded five of them are going to make it to some kind of merge. As a pretty strong force. And it will be fascinating to see how that evolves from there. But that's mine. How about you? Is there somebody that you found an immediate desire for a rooting interest for? Or that you wanted to say is a winner pick? Pizza guy. Pizza guy?

[00:35:42] He looks a little like Furio to me. Speaking of dominoes. Yes. Pizza guy. I don't make the rules. I would be sure that's my winner pick. I don't make the rules. That's fair. And when he puts that buff on his head. Man, handsome guy. He looks like Furio. Handsome guy. He really looks like Furio. I love my Italian brothers. Hello, hello, enjoyers of the weekend program. My name is Pouya.

[00:36:12] And I'm just interrupting real quick to let you know about a brand new podcast that is guaranteed to kickstart every weekend with all the good vibes. And I'm, of course, talking about the Pouya and Liana Lounge. Showing myself and Liana every week where we get to talk about. All the things. We unlock all the lore. We have good energy. The vibe's immaculate. Need I say more? Find us over on the Pouya and Liana dot com. Or if you're looking for the video, find us on the RHAP YouTube channel every Friday at 7 p.m. to kickstart your weekend.

[00:36:41] All right, Antonio. Let's talk about Survivor 50 in the hands of the fans. And that's what it's officially called, I think. It's called The People Speak in all caps. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Survivor 50 in the hands of the fans.

[00:37:08] As a concept, how do you feel about this, the bicentennial being themed around us making choices that will influence the game? I think it comes from a good place. I read a good interview Dalton Ross from E-Weekly had with Jeff Probst where Jeff really went into detail on a lot of the thinking behind a lot of these choices. And what are some of the things they could or couldn't do and what they might subject to a vote and what they might not and why.

[00:37:35] And what I like about Survivor in this era is they recognize at this point that the reason, quote, that show's still on is because the fan base loves it. Right? It's because of the hardcore Survivor fans out there. Even bad seasons happen from time to time. We all know it. And we'll come back and we'll watch the next one because maybe they got it better with the cast mix. Or maybe bad luck hasn't happened. Or maybe a bunch of people didn't get injured or whatever. Right? Like maybe we're going to get a better season the next time after we've had a bad one. We hang in there. Our fans are there.

[00:38:04] So if you're 50 seasons in, 25 years in on Survivor, and you want to make a season, I love the show now saying we're making this show for you. So why not let you have a voice? You're not all going to be on it. We're not going to probably put any of you on it. It's going to be all returning players. But they're going to be your faves. And I don't want to subject them to a vote, which I think is really honest and fair and decent of Jeff.

[00:38:30] Having remembered in real time what it was like for Second Chance and listening to those castaways talk about how it felt to be in that room and know they weren't getting voted on. Brutal. Absolutely brutal. The idea that people would be subjected to that again. It was so good. Oh, you loved it. You loved it. It was so good. I don't love it. I don't love anything that requires the people that are participating to double down on the amount of therapy that they needed before they walked into the room.

[00:38:57] You walk into Survivor, you better know that you're going to be paying double the therapy pills. That's a fair point. It's a fair point. So if you weren't going to therapy, now you're going to. And if you were going to therapy, now you're going twice a week. You know, like if you're going on Survivor, if you're listening to me and you're trying to get on Survivor, that's where you're going to go. Yeah, that's fair. You're going to be on TV. I feel like, like, miss me with that, Jeff.

[00:39:25] Like, I feel like the whole exercise, the whole point of this whole thing is, yes, celebrating adventure and setting them up for an adventure, a glorious adventure. But they are going to sustain. Not everyone can sustain a beautiful defeat. Some of these defeats are going to be ugly, really, really brutal. And some of the ways in which this is going to change your life are going to be devastating. And some of the people who go on there are going to come back saying, I shouldn't have gone on there.

[00:39:55] If nothing else for me, Antonio, the people who were up for a second chance, they knew the score had been there before. So I as tiny violin for me, tiny violin for me on that. I would have loved to have seen another second chance ballot. I would love it if we could vote on some players for this. But maybe we'll be able to.

[00:40:14] Maybe there's a better way to do it that doesn't, like, heavily weigh the recency bias or players having an Instagram following because they played in a season when. Yeah, like, we've got 10 new era slots to fill or something like that. Maybe there's a better way to do this. Right. Or if you want, like, yeah, here's your old school, like, strong as an oak guy. Do you want Rupert? Do you know who do you want? Like, do you want Terry Dietz? Like, who do you want? Like, who do you want to occupy this archetypal role in casting?

[00:40:44] And then that's who you get. You get one of those people. You don't get more than one of them because it's a fan vote where we say everybody can be voted on. And I don't like that. What we want in our casting of modern era Survivor, and I think that's what they're getting the most right about the show. We don't want to subject the public vote because we're going to get like Oscar so white, if you know what I'm saying. Like, we're going to get a shittier cast as a result of doing that. I really believe that because, like, it's just the way of the world.

[00:41:14] We have to look at what's going on. So I think you have to be very careful if you're talking about a fan vote to protect the sorts of things that are super valuable about the show now. And I do think you have to be careful not to shut out the players from previous eras just because they don't have as much of an online presence or the fans don't remember them or they weren't a hit with in the last 10 years. So that's the part for me where it's like, ah, fan vote, not fan vote. I have a lot of drawbacks.

[00:41:40] And so the amount of drawbacks I have, I definitely don't need it for the cast. Yeah. That being said, we now can break people's spirits by feeding them or not. So we still do have an impact on folks' well-being, a responsibility that we should all take very seriously. Some people might not want a red buff, Antonio. Some people might not want a blue buff.

[00:42:09] So we got to take all this voting quite seriously. So currently, what's up for a vote? And again, in talking with Mike, it wasn't clear to me if this is going to be a weekly vote or a monthly vote or somewhere in between. But currently, what's available to vote for? Tribe colors. Should these people have rice or should they have to earn rice? Final four fire challenge. Get rid of it and let people vote as before or keep it.

[00:42:36] And then, as you mentioned, live reunion versus the Fijian reunion. Do you have any strong feelings about any of these categories personally? Yeah. Live reunion. It's a must. Like if I vote, if I only, if I only have one of those votes that I guarantee I can lock in, that's the one. Let's take that off the table because I agree. And I do agree with you. I think this one will be a landslide. I am not. I don't love the tribe colors, you know. Yeah. You know, they gave us like three, three palette options.

[00:43:04] And I'm, I was unimpressed. I was unimpressed. As was I. I was unimpressed. It was like, and you're leading off with this. And these are the kinds of choices are going to make. Like, ah, miss me. Miss me. They should have had like a Bodie McBoatface option. There should have been like absolutely insane. Uh, you know, like we could have gone like leopard print. Like there's a lot of different ways. We could have screwed the buffs, man. Full on lingerie. Like there's a lot of different ways.

[00:43:33] Survivor after dark, you know, survivor after dark. Uh, you know, that's a D if you want to. Very sad, uh, uh, situation. Um, so whatever. I don't really, I don't really need to talk about that. Uh, other than to say, like, if that's representative of the kinds of things that we're going to end up voting on, I'm a little sleepy about it. Um, the rice and the. Final four fire are two where I, I feel like the instinct that I have is like, we're going to feed them and we're going to get rid of fire.

[00:44:01] Like, uh, we, but I don't know how much that's just like the isolated super duper fan bubble tape, right? Of like, uh, like here in the podcast community, we don't like, we don't even like it when we make them do a final four fire baking challenge. That's not survivor. That's not how it's supposed to be. Um, we may feel that way. I don't know how the broader public feels. Uh, I would imagine the broader public. Maybe likes the fire making challenge.

[00:44:30] So I don't know. Uh, maybe they want it to be hard. Maybe they don't want to feed these people. Maybe, maybe I'm a softie Antonio. And maybe I'm really on an Island, uh, with wanting to give them rice. Where do you think these two are going to go? Well, I am. Don't, I doubt we will see the percents. I'm sure everybody in the community that's hosted their own polls on their Facebook pages or within their discords or groups, uh, then they probably have seen some of the results within their fan community, but you're right.

[00:45:00] I don't think we can really know what the pulse is for the broader fan community players, uh, of this season. The people, uh, Jeff has said there are still 50 people in contention to be on survivor 50. I say, just put them all out there. It's right. Yeah. Um, one world, you know, just one world. Um, should they be, uh, uh, uh, like having like census, uh, should they be like, uh, trying to like do some poll stirring to see if they can't go in with like a, a statistically, uh, solid idea of what to expect?

[00:45:30] I thought about this and I, I think the savviest players probably will, right? Because some, some people are like that. Some of the more game body types or the more, uh, people who see everyone as ones and zeros and moving them around on the board. Like a Christian for instance, who like, for me, it feels like no brainer, bring them back. Like Christian feels like he's going to model this out, you know? Yeah. Look, how many different, uh, fan communities can you view on Facebook or, uh, I, you know, if you Google like survivor vote, I promise you, you'll already see on the first page.

[00:46:00] Uh, if you're Googling like survivor 50 vote or whatever, you're going to see people's posts from Reddit and other places where they show polls of what these look like from their people that have voted. Obviously look, uh, listen, you don't have to be the worst pollster ever. Nate silver. Uh, I'm just kidding. Uh, not really to see, uh, to see that like polls are, that would have been cool. What's that? Silver buff. Silver buff. That would have been amazing. Give me a gold buff and a silver bar. How about like an entire silver suit?

[00:46:28] Like the guy that dove into the sewer on watchmen. Yeah. Everybody has to wear one of those for the first day or green man. How about green man? Lube man. I believe it was a loop guy. Yeah. Loop guy. No, but so I think you could model it out. The model is going to be highly subject to noise. Like it's not going to be the most healthy model you could build, but I think people will. I had that same thought. I said that the people that are like real, like a game hackers of survivor are going to look at this. If they're subject to this, they're absolutely going to be looking at, is it more likely or not that we're going to have a fire challenge?

[00:46:56] Like what is the buzz or what's happening around this issue? Uh, and so I think that that will happen. I really do. Um, as far as my take, um, I can get rid of the final four fire, fire making. Like you can miss me with it. Uh, even though like it can produce dramatic TV moments. I don't question that in any way. Uh, I hate that it can protect players, uh, who maybe don't deserve protection, uh, or who haven't done a better job of insulating themselves strategically.

[00:47:24] Um, I like the idea that a Chris Underwood or someone who really needs to can put themselves into that fire making challenge to improve the resume. I would have absolutely loved, even though she had no need to do it. Uh, there was this thing where could Sam beat Rachel? Like he has some good points and he gave a really good final tribal. Uh, so, you know, the votes weren't like, as far as like his ability to state his case for a game, there was a persuasive case to be made. It would have been amazing to see Rachel who was allegedly incredible at making fire.

[00:47:52] Just put his dick in the dirt at the final four and be like, you know what? I don't even want to wait till final three to beat you. I'm going to beat you right here, right now. I mean, she already dominated the jury, but I don't even think they would have had to have had a final tribal council. If she could just call it no shade on teeny. Like it's no shade on anybody. It's no shade on, uh, who was the other finalist? Yeah. Blonde hair with the blue. Oh, uh, Sue. Stu, no shade on Sue whatsoever. Dirt buff. That would have been, you know, that's a dirt buff.

[00:48:23] Dirt buff. Dirt buff. Yeah. Let's subject that. Yeah. Should the buff be very dirty? Just like a moss buff. Like, uh, now you're talking to like Navy seal type shit. Like, uh, yeah. Something you can blend in and make. Bring out the camo again. It was camo. Right. Yeah. So we could do that. But, um, unused green camo buff that season. Use that. Bring it back. Maybe they will. That's a survivor relic. Like, uh, we can keep that in the museum for now.

[00:48:51] Bring like put up like, okay, we're going to have, you know, however many tribes, however many buffs we need. And you get to pick the colors of the buffs. We are going to use classic buffs. So do you want the, uh, like Samburu red? Uh, and it will, it will say survivor Africa on it. Like, I think that would be rad. Uh, I think it'd be cool if like you literally can get like, the Coror buff or the long buff or whatever. Like, I feel like that would be sweet. I think that'd be cool.

[00:49:21] Like put a buff scheme back on the board, baby. Celebrate your history. Yeah. And it's in keeping with how the culture works now. Right? Like we are nothing. Everything. Everything. Yeah. So we could certainly do that. Uh, and we could do it in a way that like markets the old season. It brings other players back to talk about it. You could sort of plus it up a remaster. If you will. Uh, there's, there's, there's room for that. The fire challenge. I don't know if there's room for, I think it will lose the fan vote.

[00:49:48] Uh, I think there are enough hardcore fans who are all the way out on it. I don't think there's much of a split on this issue among like the really dedicated fans. I think that there, there are probably people who are maybe just like casual viewers of the television show who really like it. And I think there are hardcore fans maybe who really like it, but I think the fandom, if I have my finger on the pulse at all is hard out on it. Uh, and so I don't know that there's, there's enough of a divide within like the hardcore

[00:50:14] fandom, uh, to make this something that could swing back with casual fandom. I think this one is out, but we'll see. We'll see. I think, um, I know Jeff really loves it. Uh, and I know that there's people on production who want it usually, but I think in this circumstance, given that they put this out as one of the first things to vote on and that they put it up for a vote at all. And probes knowing that there are people out here who really don't like it.

[00:50:39] I feel like for the sake of drama for that moment, when they get to that final four challenge, that immunity challenge. Yes. They, they need to be able to like turn the card over and be like, and there's no fire making because there's not, there's no drama. Like, and yeah, we're still doing fire. Like no one's going to care. That was a good, pretty good propes. If it's like a move, right? If it's nice. Yeah. You know what I think? So I, I, I think I'm talking myself into there's going to be no, uh, uh, final four fire

[00:51:09] making. Yeah. I, I, I think that that, I hope that that's right. And I think you just articulate. What could be interesting. Antonio is like, what if instead they reveal it by like, there's no final four fire making, but you do have to make a fire for this first vote. What if they do like a, like a, the first tribal council, whoever gets the most votes, whichever two have to make a fire. So it's down to two people. No, it's terrible.

[00:51:36] I'm just trying to see like, if we get a vote out final four fire, will we will in something even worse? Yes. Is there a monkey's Paul? That's my concern. Just like the fingers are curling on it. That's my concern. That's my concern. There could be, um, there really could be. And that is a, that is a valid concern. Uh, it does say ultimately in the vote, like I think some people were concerned about that and it does say in the text of the vote, let them vote them out. Like before or whatever. Yes. Yeah. And so that does give me hope. Um, but yeah, I, I'm okay with that.

[00:52:04] As far as the rice goes, I think I'm more of a, I don't have a hardcore take on this, but I would, I would not like to give them rice. I want it. I want them to eat. I want them to eat. I understand that. And I won't diminish that. Uh, I think that for me, the breakneck pace of Fiji is such that survivor feels less like surviving. Like it feels like that element of the game is not as prevalent as before. Uh, and so I understand the desire because they pressed fast forward.

[00:52:31] We're doing 1.5 X survivor or whatever, uh, that maybe we don't, maybe we don't want to give them as many things because we have to find a way to make the 39 day experience feel like, or sorry, the 26 day experience feel like the 39 day experience. And one of the ways you do that, don't give them anything. Yeah. You got to make them real, real thin. The other thing about Fiji is like coconuts are plentiful. It seems like food is plentiful. It's not like there's like dead beaches where there's no fish.

[00:53:00] These are things that were sometimes wild cards in seasons where they were going to the location one and done. Right. So they didn't realize or they, or they knew, but they didn't really comprehend how the local food that was available, uh, was in the jungle or was on the beach or whatever they could eat, uh, was not going to be as filling as maybe the local food that was available even on another tribe's beach or like on another beach. So that part's tricky. It's not tricky in Fiji. It doesn't seem like, well, yes and no. I mean like because they are there and their tribe camps are all always like in roughly

[00:53:30] the same places, are they not like pilfering the land, especially for that second season, uh, the back to back. So, uh, I do feel like that's a thing. Um, here's my take. Like if you do not ever plan on going on survivor vote, however you want. If you desire a future appearance on survivor, if you want to play someday, if you were somebody who applies for the show, give him rice, vote for rice, bro. Yeah.

[00:53:57] If you don't vote rice now, you ain't getting none. So my advice, my advice to those people, I don't really have a huge like dog in the fight. I won't really care all that much. However, this goes, I'm certainly not applying, but if you are, I recommend you vote for rice and tell your friends to do so as well. That's fair. Uh, not chase rice. He's not on the second chance list. No, can't vote him out. No, he's got his buzz back.

[00:54:23] Uh, the, the idea that Jeff had, uh, and he's just like this, you know, absolute like Svengali, you know, this just terrible manipulative figure. It sounds like when he answers questions like this is like, why wouldn't you want them to have a harder time thinking through decisions and puzzles because they've been, they're hungry. Right. Right. And it's like, I understand people's take is like, why would I want that? Um, and I, I get that. I think that a mix is what makes survivor for me.

[00:54:49] I think surviving the conditions and how the conditions impact their abilities to survive them should be part of a survivor season narrative. As I said, I want to, I believe all these people who are on survivor answered the call to adventure. And so I do want that reflected in the season as much as possible. Uh, and so I do think that having to have them work for reward and having that be part of the story, uh, is more in keeping with older seasons of survivor where we had sponsored rewards. We had interesting rewards.

[00:55:19] We had different rewards. I can't tell you how many times I'm sick of them going to pond, going to the sanctuary on Fiji, right? Like the sanctuary. Good things happen. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just over it. Like it, it, it feels too samey samey and it doesn't make the seasons feel distinct anymore. Uh, and so like, if that's how we're going to do rewards, I think I would rather do rewards so that there was more strategy involved that that was more of like what was in the game. And like, if there's no rice, like those things become much more significant and important.

[00:55:49] So I could go either way on it. I definitely get the reasons why we shouldn't be making people more miserable, but I also understand why that might make for better TV. And it certainly makes for more variance, uh, in a season or on a location that, uh, breeds familiarity. Um, so that, that I, I'm neither. I, no matter how people want to vote, I'm okay with that. But it seems like the, like the predominant, like online discourse that I've seen is like, give them rice. Are you kidding me? I don't want to see anything. I've seen some people saying, don't give them rice, including alumni.

[00:56:19] Uh, you know, uh, and by the way, from alumni who have no shot at ever being on the show again, uh, not to, not to be too, uh, but, uh, you're the people who are going to be there because I'm bad that they're there. And that's kind of it. I swear. That's not what I'm doing, but, uh, yeah, I get it.

[00:56:52] Let's talk about other things that could be up for a vote in the future. One thing that we know will be up for a vote in the future is the question of idols or no idols. We know this because in their press release for survivor 50 in the hands of the fans, CBS mentions idols or no idols as a thing to vote on a, how is this going to go?

[00:57:18] Do you think Antonio B how will you vote for this Antonio? Uh, and I don't remember if I had a C I did it when I said a, yeah. Cause otherwise you could have just presented a binary choice. I did before, but I don't remember what it was anymore. That's fair. Uh, I, I think idols, but I say with the copy, I remember what it was. Here it is. Let's say we say no idols. Does that make the game better or worse? So there's a few things that I want. Yeah.

[00:57:47] There's a few things I want to say about the categories and about all of this, which is ultimately like, as I look at any of the choices, like cosmetic aside or storytelling aside, like your finale or your buff, I want to know, does the fact that the players will, does the fact that the players will, will know what, what the possibility was, but not know the outcome. How does that improve the strategy on the season? How does it make the season more interesting, more fun, more unique, their lack of knowledge.

[00:58:16] The thing about an idol is if one comes out early, then for the rest of the season, that lack of knowledge of what was true is burnt. It's gone because you know, there was an idol in play. You don't necessarily know if it'll come back. You don't know how they got it. But if you know one was played, you know, there's idols on this season. If, however, there are no idols in this season, you could get to the final six and not be sure. Right. Or a final five or whenever they allow, hypothetically, an idol to be played, then you wouldn't know.

[00:58:46] You might be suspicious, but imagine in that world, if you were so like, you didn't tell anyone and it never came out until you absolutely had to talk about it, a blow up moment, an explosive moment. That would be fascinating. I want to know, are fans going to know that answer? Yes. Very, very interesting question. Like, will Jeff in some sort of interview and will he even say when they hit the beach,

[00:59:15] will he give, this is an interesting one. Will he give them any kind of a gimme? Right. Like, just to let you know the answer to one of them, they are idols in this game or something like that. So I don't know some of this stuff. I hope that they hold very, very close to the best. And then other things I don't mind that they're like a little more open about. I think the possibility that no idols exist needs to remain a thing.

[00:59:44] I cannot imagine that we're actually, as a people, going to vote on no idols. I'm not voting no idols. No, I'm not even. I'm voting your idols. Yeah. Sorry, not sorry about it. I think that there's a lot of them and it tends to be a lot. But I feel like not having them at this point, we've had them much longer than we haven't. Yeah. So I don't want to get rid of them.

[01:00:10] If the question was like idols and no advantages or something like that, like if there was like a corollary where like we could only get idols and then no other advantages or we can get advantages but no idols, that would be a more interesting thing to me. Idols versus no idols is not terribly interesting to me. What about no idol? Celebrating 50 seasons, right? You want to celebrate some of those moments.

[01:00:38] I think you got to have idols, I think. But I would put an asterisk, like I said, because I would like to see something like idols but only placed after the merch or idols but they're only available for people who go to the sanctuary or for people who go to wherever. I mean, in previous seasons, of course, we had, okay, now you got to go to this island and we know the idol is on an island but there's a puzzle there and you only have 24 hours in this island and you maybe solved the puzzle while you were there. Maybe you didn't.

[01:01:08] The players know that you've gone. They know an idol is available there but they don't necessarily know if you found it or someone else already found it or what. I think limited idols and having them be more specific. So I don't want to start with like a standard survivor season. There's three tribes, three different camps and at each camp there's a where advantage that turns into an idol. I don't want to see that. I think it would be much more interesting if it was we have a three tribe season. Everybody on the three tribes look for idols and could never find one. Until the merge.

[01:01:38] And then guess what? We actually did place them in. You thought it was a no idol season because you didn't find any in your camps. But now that the merge has hit, we put two idols in the game or we put one idol in the game. And maybe an advantage is maybe you find an advantage that tells you actually there are idols in the game but you have to go find them or something like that. Advantage doesn't have to be something you play at tribal council. Advantage could just be information, right?

[01:02:06] And so in a game like this where the people don't know the answer, making an advantage that you get that you do know one of the answers could be massive. And imagine trying to convince another player like, oh, this thing that I never knew existed that we never had before this season. There's an advantage. Knowledge is power. The knowledge is power advantage now is that I get to ask and know which one of these things is real or not. And no one's going to believe you like, oh, you know, it's true. How do you know it's true? So I think that could be great.

[01:02:35] And I think that you could play around with this idea that people don't know. And I think you're right. Like if we can weaponize no idols, even though idols are in the game, we're going to have a much more fun game as a result because people aren't going to be sure. And so that's the part where I really want to be able to take advantage of their lack of knowledge of which way the vote went for as long as possible, because I think it would make the game more interesting and more fun to see than just, you know, every tribe has an idol at its three tribes.

[01:03:05] When you start and find it, you know, idols are in the game. I don't want to spoil that vote response within the first episode. But I mean, someone found an idol on the first episode today. So that would have been shot if that were season 50. That's a bad TV. And it's bad season. We want these things to impact the season. And so I'm looking at this overall, like what is the best option where it doesn't matter what the answer is. Them not knowing is what makes the game better. And idols or no idols is a big one. So I'm voting for idols.

[01:03:31] But I hope that when we put idols in, it isn't just, OK, it's idol palooza. OK, it's advantage Mageddon at six or whatever. We don't want that. Yeah. Yeah. Careful what you wish for either way, I think, because I think if we vote idols in, it probably will end up becoming an idol palooza. Of course. You know, but I don't know. Gun to my head, I'm choosing idols. I think I'd rather have idol palooza than no idols.

[01:03:56] But I really like the world where the game has to be played for some set period where the players still aren't. Yeah. What else do we think they're going to put up for a vote? Because I don't think we know anymore. We know that total days is not an option, which is something that, you know, as you could probably tell from my points on this podcast, I'm a big fan of the longer season. Sure. It's not a possibility like what they've got locked in for when they can film and where they can film there. And all those windows have been locked in already. So, like, they cannot change.

[01:04:26] Normally, I think that the shorter season is why we still get Survivor. The fact that it's in Fiji all the time is why we still get Survivor. So, like, we could wish all we want for a longer season. But unless the budget's there or changes, it's probably not going to happen. And it certainly isn't a possibility for 50. Jeff has already said that that's not the case. I think we could vote on Final 2 or a Final 3.

[01:04:48] There's a very good exchange between Dalton and Jeff there where Jeff makes some good points about why a Final 2 is worse than a Final 3. And then Dalton makes some good points about Final 2s that have been great TV, where somebody makes the wrong decision like Colby or like Wu. So there are these great moments where a Final 2 has produced fantastic television. And a Final 3, maybe there's always a third finalist that's not really part of it. So I think we could vote on that.

[01:05:17] Do you have a preference one way or the other for 50? I would vote Final 2. I would like to see a Final 2. I cannot imagine that we are going to put anybody on this season who isn't capable of winning. Yes, I think that's right. He said that in, was it last season or one of the previous seasons? We're like, one of you is not only not going to win, one of you can't win. One of you just doesn't have it, I think is like what he said. It could be any of you, but at least one of you can't.

[01:05:47] Nobody like that will. If we are talking about the 700 plus people who have played this game and we've winnowed it down to a list of 50, and it sounds like it's been a pretty bloody process to figure out what the cast should look like for this thing, they're not casting duds. I don't think they're going to cast head scratchers. I imagine, or at least, good Lord, I hope they don't cast head scratchers. Even if you don't like the person, you understand why the person is there.

[01:06:18] Another reason not to do a vote, though, because then you get Joe Anglum, and then you do get people who just aren't going to win the game strategically against the other people that are in the cast. And I mean, a little bit of shade for Joe Anglum. Well, I don't want him on there for a lot of reasons, but... Fair enough. But I also think that, look, it's totally fair if somebody comes out there and challenge beasts. And so you then get to a final two where it's the challenge beast we really wanted to get rid of, but didn't do shit strategically against a strategist. And there's a big conversation to be had there.

[01:06:45] The strategist did a lot of cool, impressive theory-crafting brain work, but also fucked over a ton of people, right? Do I want to vote for that person over the person who impressively shielded themselves all along? I think that the head-to-head for an all-star season is an exciting prospect that we have only seen twice in Coca-Cola Classic all-stars and in Micronesia. I think every other all-star situation has been a final three.

[01:07:15] Yeah, heroes versus villains is three. And in all of those cases, right, I don't think that there was a final three where there were three contenders to win. Yeah. Now, let me do a counterpoint. Let me do a counterpoint, which is that if you're saying that they're not going to cast any duds and anybody could win, then isn't three better than two? I mean, I guess, but I feel like I like the friction of the head-to-head.

[01:07:42] And the thing that I also like is if we're killing final four fire-making and then there's still a further vote after that, I think that gets intense. Like if they don't know, it's a thing that they would not, they would have to say you don't know if it's going to be a final two or a final three. That's something that they have to live without the knowledge of. And I feel like they should put it up for a vote at the very least to hang that tension in the air so that people have to plan their end games for either scenario.

[01:08:10] So I hope it gets put up for a vote. However, it ultimately falls. I won't lose any sleep over. But I think it's the kind of thing that in this context of like part of the meta of season 50 is that the players know what was up for grabs, but don't always know how it netted out. I think that it would be a great source of tension for people out there who want to feel like they could win in this exact combo of me plus two people.

[01:08:39] But me versus one of them might be really hard. So this is a gamble. So I just I hope it's up for a vote. Yes, that will improve the season. Yes. And that's a perfect example of something that would go the whole game potentially. I mean, at some point, Jeff's going to have to reveal it. Maybe he reveals it at six, maybe five, maybe the merge. I don't know. Maybe the merge is too early. But at some point, he has to tell him it's going to be a final two and not a final three.

[01:09:05] So the moment where that happens in the game really maximizes what you're talking about there. But it should be up to a vote for that reason. Similarly, if we did a vote, which it doesn't seem like will be the case. Maybe it will be. But if let's say if we did a vote, that was three tribes, two tribes or one world. And those were three options, three tribes, two tribes or one world. When those people get out there, they're going to know which one won. They're going to know right away. Yeah.

[01:09:33] And we will have had an impact on the way the game is designed. But we won't have had an impact that has like ongoing strategic value because the answer isn't known. It has different strategic value because it would be two tribes or one world or whatever. But it wouldn't be necessarily the same. And we could just still do two tribes in one world, right? Like we could do that. So there's lots of options that we can kind of watch play out. But I think I would like to see a vote on the number of tribes. We discussed it earlier.

[01:10:02] And I've always liked the idea of doing another one world season. It's just a shame the cast on that one was. They got to rebrand it, unfortunately. They do. They can't call it one world. They could say. Survivor unity. They could say three tribes, two tribes, one tribe. But I don't think that they could say one world because not that anyone will remember it probably among the casuals. But if they do, it won't be fondly. I mean, the winner of one world could be on this season for all we know. It's possible.

[01:10:28] I mean, it's a very that's a very, very good person to be in the mix. I don't know that she is in the mix, but it would be a very good person to be among the final members of the. Was she compelling enough in Winners at War? I don't really remember. It was certainly compelling for me, somebody who didn't think that she was the best winner ever to watch her eat shit. So, yeah, I think a number of tribes I would like to see. I'm trying to think of what else I would like to be able to vote on.

[01:10:56] Well, let me let me give you a couple of options that occurred to me. How about Redemption Island or not? No. You made a joke about this, I feel like, on Blue Sky, if I can recall correctly. I said that I'm going to vote for the return of the Edge of Extinction. Edge of Extinction. That's what it was. It wasn't Redemption Island. After famously leading the charge that got it killed, which is an act that I am not proud of. Right, right. A shameful period of mania in my life.

[01:11:29] That's how I would largely describe mine. I don't think that I should have a say in that matter. So, no, I don't really want EOE back there, but I won't. I will not lead the revolution again. I'm retired from the revolution. And now we need you for other revolutions. Tribe swap or not? Yes, I love a tribe swap. Okay, so you're voting yes on tribe swap. Do you think it would... Is there any interest in the game if it's two tribes, no swap?

[01:11:57] Heroes vs. Villains does that, and it's great, but that's because it's themed. That's a tribe of heroes. That's a tribe of villains. And you're able to tell very clear stories that way. Unless this is themed like new school versus old school, which maybe they're going to do. Yeah. That would be cool, and I would love that. In that case, I would be fine to not do a swap. But if it's just like arbitrary tribes, then yeah, just mix them up. Shuffle them around, especially on an all-star season. You want to see some of these people interact.

[01:12:27] That's a really good point. And I think it's a point that I'm not sure how much has been considered. And again, I'm basing this on the one interview I read with Jeff Probst and Dalton Ross. I don't know how much they're considering the way that these things interact. Or because they can't plan on how the fans are going to vote one way or the other, they don't know which challenges or which choices are going to not play well together. Right? And so not knowing that makes it tricky.

[01:12:57] Like if you did tell me we were going to have old school versus new school as the theme, and then you told me to vote on the number of tribes, as you just articulated, the vote is different. If you voted up top for three tribes versus two, and then they told you you voted for three, and all the fans voted for three, and then they told you the theme was old school versus new school, what the hell are we doing voting on tribe numbers then? So I do think that they should consider, don't say idols or no idols.

[01:13:24] Like let's talk about how we can give the idols or how they're found, or let's think about what that looks like so it's not just a binary choice. And that's what I was talking about earlier when I said let's find ways to make these things impact the gameplay in an interesting and not game-breaking way as long as possible and to the benefit of the game as much as possible. A tribe swap not coming when players know to expect it is an interesting thing to change up. That's one thing I can say.

[01:13:52] And we have seen that in the past where it's like, are we going to merge? Are we going to swap now? Like when's this going to happen? Some of that stuff I think you need to, especially with the canniness of the players that are going to be out there, you need to shake them up. You need to make it so that they can't predict what challenge is coming next, or we haven't seen this, so it's coming, or where's this? You want to shake their brains up as much as possible. And so not mixing the tribes up or having that be something that's in play could be good for that.

[01:14:23] Are there any other tools you want to bring back, the medallion of power or not? Obviously, mop them up, baby. What I want to be able to vote on that I know we won't be able to vote on, but I will just keep trying to speak it into existence. Here's how I would frame it. Jeff Probst, host or player? That's the vote. I want us to be able to vote Jeff into the show. I don't know how that works with who then hosts the show afterwards, but I want Jeff to play.

[01:14:52] Play the game, Jeffrey. Let us put you in. Is there a world where that's Survivor 51? Like we already did. Now that we've done, maybe we're trying to do our best season ever for 50. Let's just go nuts. Put a minute as a player, retire him as a host, keep him as the ambassador of the show, but bring in a new host, like whether it's Parvati or somebody else like that, and have Jeff's retirement be being a player on the show.

[01:15:19] I want that very badly, even though I've listened, whatever, you know, the past is like he's best in the business. And like, I would be thrilled to see him continuing to host the show for as long as he wants to, but eventually he won't. Uh, and the show probably ends unless he makes some sort of like proactive choice in a handoff. Uh, and I think it would be, uh, deliciously ironic if that choice, that proactive choice in the handoff is in the hands of the fans. Yeah. I mean, I could see that.

[01:15:48] Uh, I don't know about 50. Um, but one of the other things I've been thinking is why don't we do this for every survivor season? Like, why don't we put some votes in play for the next season? Every season? Like, why, why don't we do that? Or at least for the first, for the next two seasons, what do you want to see? Like, what, what kind of stuff do you want to see? Yeah. You want to see one world. Do you want to see, uh, two tribes? Like, what do you want to see? Because we're still going back to Fiji. So let's, let's see what you want to see.

[01:16:15] What kind of ways that you want to move the pieces around and try to reiterate this game. So like if, if the vote is good, there's a lot of people that vote. The engagement levels are good. Uh, they like that. They've got some results. Maybe it surprises them a little bit. Uh, and the end result is good. I hope voting, uh, becomes a larger part of other survivor seasons. And in that world, we don't have to put Jeff on 50. We can put him on 55. We can put him on 60. Whenever he's ready to go, his last act will be, he's going to go play. Yeah. Yeah. And production's not going to help them either. You don't have to worry about that.

[01:16:46] Um, so anyway, how about a twisted, uh, twisted scenario here? Um, I, sometimes I get a little twisted myself. We were doing this preseason fan vote, right? Once they're out there and the cast has shipped out. And I'm actually wondering about like, is this what's going to happen? Will the voting continue? Will they, uh, leave some votes in the hands of the fans for wild? The season is happening.

[01:17:13] So for like the month of like June or July or whenever they're going to, uh, do this, that they open the boats back up. Could they even like say like, um, like, could they just like even put like, uh, a poll up that says Parvati or Boston Rob with no other context. And you're like, am I voting to give Parvati an idol? Am I voting for Parvati? Does like, did the, did the viewership just like cast a collective vote?

[01:17:40] Um, I would be very interested to see if there could be some like blind voting on our behalf. Yeah. That would be fun. Uh, and I like the real time idea too. Um, you have seen that on reality shows in the past. Sometimes it's like something is happening while it's being filmed. Top chef experimented with this and has continued to do so. While the season is being filmed nine months to a year before it airs, but on Instagram or social media, they'll post polls that have a live impact on the season as it's being filmed.

[01:18:09] Uh, and there are certainly things you could do with that, that aren't, uh, spoilerific, right? That don't reveal too much about what's happened. Like, I'm not saying we need to 15 days into the shooting schedule of survivor 50 say, should we give Rupert a pizza today? Yeah. Uh, I, I like the idea of more of a blind vote. Uh, that's not bad. Uh, in real time during the game. Yeah. Should it be like Rupert or Russell? Oh my God, what am I doing? Yes. What am I voting for? Like you've just articulated two sides of the evolutionary.

[01:18:41] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but anyway, yeah, the, uh, the idea is, uh, is, is a good one. I think democracy is an idea that's worth protecting. Um, so more democracy, the better in our survivor. I say, uh, but perhaps Josh, perhaps we should subject other television. Yeah. Should, should, uh, should more shows be, uh, left in the hands of the fans should scripted shows just like some rapid fire ones. Antonio should like, for like only murders in the building.

[01:19:10] Should we be allowed to vote on whether the murder is in the building this season? No, the murders is outside the building this season. Should there be more than one murder? Yeah. Should we murder one of the main characters, right? Should we have less guest stars than before? Yeah. Uh, yeah. The White Lotus, go to Norway or go to Palm Beach? Palm Beach, baby. Like, uh, can we put the vote in our hands? 24. Should Jack Bauer go to the bathroom or should he hold it? Forever.

[01:19:40] Uh, I wouldn't give him to understand he doesn't have to evacuate. Uh, he doesn't have to eliminate waste. Choose your adventure books rule. Uh, yes, they do. Choose your adventure TV. It would be very hard to do, but it would be very fun to pull off if they could do it. A long time ago, I wanted to do a choose your own adventure podcast and we never figured out how to do it. Yeah. If anyone knows how to do a choose your own adventure podcast, hit us up because we would love to figure it out. Uh, yeah. I mean like, yeah, you could vote on, there's so many new Game of Thrones seasons. Do we want the next one to have dragons? Do we want the next one to have Lannisters?

[01:20:07] Do we want the next one to have familial familiarity? Uh, yeah, no, I could vote on. Boobs or no boobs. Yes. Right. Uh, how about yellow? I'm voting boobs. You're voting boobs. Well, how about Yellowstone? I got one for you. Yellowstone. Yellowstone. Should the next scene of, should the next season of Yellowstone be set in the future? Let's say Yellowstone 2075. Okay. Or set in the past, uh, Yellowstone 75. 75 AD? Yeah. Yeah. You know, just like whatever was going on in my family.

[01:20:38] Where do we want to be? 75 AD, baby. Hmm. Okay. Uh, yeah, I'd be interested. Uh, you know, just like seeing like some like, uh, uh, like turn of the, what do we call it from going to BC to AD? Turn of the millennium. Turn of the that. Uh, like. Turn of the that. To see some of those early humans. Uh, I'd be interested. Everyone knows it stands for before Christ and after death, Josh. Yes, that's right. That's right. Uh, yes. Get that out of my brain. That's correct.

[01:21:06] I need some like, uh, whatever purges that from one's brain. Witch Hazel? Is that what Witch Hazel does? Witch Hazel won't do the trick, unfortunately. Okay. Uh, yeah. Do we want to see Taylor Sheridan doing a robot's beat him up, shoot him up? Or do we want to see Taylor Sheridan doing like a Cro-Magnon blown up, shoot him up? Like, what do we want? You know? Uh, go either way. Cro-Magnon since 75 AD. I don't know, man. I'm bad with math. I'm bad with science. I'm bad with all the humanities and the arts. I'm just, I'm not housebroken. Just leave it alone.

[01:21:36] Uh, 25, uh, 20, uh, 2075. Let's go to the future. Let's see what future Montana looks like. The whole farm is burned down. It's just a nice land. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. Could be fun. Um, Antonio, anything else on Survivor? Sure. Uh, I'm sure we will talk again about the season at some point. Last season we did one during the mid-season. Um, maybe we'll do that again. Yeah. Uh, let's hope it's not a mid-season. Uh, let's hope it's a, uh, it's like, it's like a great season. Yeah.

[01:22:06] Let's hope it's a lit season, not a mid-season. So, uh, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm, I, I find myself like, oh, you know, not getting in the hype and like being excited that Survivor's coming back and then it comes back and I'm like, I'm really glad Survivor's back. Yes. And 50 seasons into a television show to have a positive relationship like that with it is a blessing. It is absolutely a blessing. And so I don't feel negatively. I mean, there were times where I have, and I know there are times where you have felt negatively

[01:22:35] about the show in the past. I'm glad it's in my life now. The key to happiness is me not having higher expectations for it based on the way the world was 20 years ago. Like we live in a different world now. TV is different now. The way the show is being made as a television show is different now and get on board and embrace it or, you know, don't be a hater. That's the way I feel at this point. So I'm just, I'm just happy with the relationship I have with the show at this point. Yeah, for certain. All right.

[01:23:04] Next time out on the weekend program, which again, if you want to subscribe and hear Antonio and I talking about TV each and every weekend here on RHAP, we know scripted TV. We're going to be talking about a show that our friends Rob and Chappelle have been talking about for the last several weeks. We're going to paradise, Antonio. Hanging with Hulu. Hulu is paradise. We'll hang with Hulu a little bit. Paradise is going to end next week. Rob and Chappelle are recapping each and every episode of paradise in the nothing but Netflix

[01:23:34] feed as hanging with Hulu has taken over nothing but Netflix for the last little while. On the other side of the finale, a few days later, Antonio and I will talk about it. I just caught up. I have a lot of thoughts on the show. This is a very compelling show on the air right now. If you're looking for a very easy scripted binge of a very tense thriller with those,

[01:23:59] this is us sensibilities that creator Dan Fogelman brings to the table and check out paradise. We're going to be talking about it. We'll give you the spoiler free overview and then we will go full spoilers on the podcast next time out on the weekend program. Again, that's the weekend program dot com. The weekend program dot com. I'm Aaron Howard on the Internet. Antonio's at AC Mazzaro. How many Z's? How many R's? It's two Z's and one R.

[01:24:26] And this week I accidentally had an IT problem at work. This is incredible. Hit me up, had a last name that had almost the same letters as mine. But one R, two was two R's and one Z. It's hard for me to even say it the wrong way. Yeah, the wrong way. Listen to me. Two R's and one Z and a very similar last name. And his first name was Antonio. Yes. Wait a minute. Am I like through the looking glass here? Literally like Antonio Bizarro. Yeah, pretty much. Bizarro Antonio. Yeah, it's pretty much exactly what the guy's name was.

[01:24:55] And I just I emailed him back and I never heard back from him. And I think maybe I like tapped. I touched the void somehow. Well, I just watched Time Cop for the first time in a long time. And as they tell you, same matter can't occupy the same space. And when you do that, Ron Silver explodes. Oh, God, we don't want that. R.I.P. to Ron Silver. It's possible. It's possible that you exploded. R.I.P. Bruno. Antonio. West Wing. Yes, that's right. All right, folks, we will be back next week.

[01:25:23] Talking Paradise here on the weekend program here in the attic of R.H.A.P. We hope you all have a terrific week. We'll see you next weekend. Bye. Ciao.