The Pride Has Spoken | Episode 19: Parvati Shallow

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[00:00:28] Ich bin Charissa und meine Empfehlung an alle Entrepreneure startet mit Shopify erfolgreich durch. Ich verwende Shopify schon seit dem ersten Tag und die Plattform macht mir nie Probleme. Ich habe viele Probleme, aber die Plattform ist nie eins davon. Ich habe das Gefühl, dass Shopify ihre Plattform kontinuierlich optimiert. Alles ist super einfach integrier- und verlinkbar. Und die Zeit und das Geld, das ich dadurch spare, kann ich anderweitig investieren. Vor allem in Wachstum. Jetzt kostenlos testen auf shopify.de

[00:00:57] Und willkommen to The Pride Has Spoken. My name is Matt Scott. My pronouns are he, him. And of course, I'm not alone. I'm joined by Dr. Evie Jagoda.

[00:01:25] Evie, how are you doing? Well, Matt, I'm living in a fantasy where I get to talk to all the people I want to talk to about the things I want to talk to. And it's a pretty good life, you know, so I'm here. I'm thrilled. I use the end of pronouns. And I'm so glad that it's not just you and me, Matt, that we have with us. Our lovely third co-host, Grace Leader. How are you doing, Grace? Hi, my name is Grace. I use she, her pronouns. I'm very excited to be here. What a lovely finale that we have in the show that everyone can see in the episode title or wherever they're watching.

[00:01:55] It's a delight. It's a treat. What a gift. How did we, how is this our life? You know what I'm saying? I do feel like there's a bit of me that hasn't accepted this reality at all. So we're here. We did it. Parvati Shallow. Is that how you pronounce her last name? Did you have that? Shallow. Yeah, you literally.

[00:02:21] I'm so glad I'm sitting like because I got, I got weak in the knees. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that either. So no, are you? Are you? This is that, that, you know, just like what? We got to talk to Parvati. I mean, I just think if you had told me, if you had told me when I first watched Mycronesia, you will go on Survivor and you will get to talk to Parvati Shallow. I don't know which one I would have been more excited about. And now I've gotten a new boat.

[00:02:50] So yeah, doing pretty good. Doing pretty good. Great day. Very fun. And last week's episode, it's like made headlines all over everywhere. People magazine parade. All the places. Breaking news. The pride of spoken. Yeah. It just feels really nice to be able to do this and have this space where we get to bring joy and positivity and like and queer stories to people.

[00:03:15] Because it's frankly an overall dark time and a hard time for queer people, especially queer people in the US and obviously around the world as well. And just like, it feels really special and nice to be able to create this platform where people feel safe, hard launching their relationship and where, you know, we'll get queer icons to come on now. And it's just like, it's special and cool. And I'm grateful to both of you for building it with me. Yeah. I know. Thank you. Thankful to you, both of you. And thankful to myself as well. Yeah.

[00:03:45] Mostly thankful to Grace. But I will say it is kind of wild to me. And I do feel like this is its own story outside the podcast, but that people feel comfortable coming to the pride has spoken as a place to come out as a place, as you said, to hard launch their relationships as a place to talk about their sexuality and gender identity and all these other aspects of their lives.

[00:04:11] So it's like, I just feel like it's really humbling and I haven't fully digested it. So if you're some random survivor out there who's ready to come out, you could do it on your own or let us know. So you can hold off till June 20. 20. 20. 20. Yes. Please be like Asia and to come out to do it on this podcast. That's just like be in the closet for like 11 months. That's it. That's not a lot. Not a lot.

[00:04:38] But then you're gonna have people out there that are like, I can't come out until I get on survivor. And then I come on the bride has spoken. And it's just, you should come out when you're ready. Yeah, that's where you could use, use the hashtag. Right. Pride has spoken. Tweet it. We'll retweet it or what all the re blue sky, re skeet it, re whatever. So just, you know, you could come out whenever you want. But if you're, if you were on survivor, you have to wait until June next year. Those are the rules. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[00:05:06] So we have, we have just a final reminder, cause it's only a few more days left in June and pride month. And so we are still selling the pride has spoken merch. We have new merch. I did. I did think of something as we're sitting in like the hottest heat wave that's like ever happened in my life where a few months ago, Derek, not a few months ago, about a month ago, Derek, lovely Derek, who works for our JP and I were talking about which merch items are like, I really think a sweater would be great. He's like, it might get a little hot for a sweater. So people might not be as inclined to buy a sweater.

[00:05:34] That is, has proven to be so true that like I got a sweater and it's a ginormous heat wave that's happening, but they are available, but you can also get some other things, stickers, a mug. I have a mug on there as well. And so just a reminder, you can go and buy those things. And if you buy them during June, you'll be entered into a raffle draw. You're going to get a link somewhere between probably like before the end of the week, the first week of July to like sort of enter yourselves into which items you would want to win.

[00:06:01] And then we'll give you about a week or so to do that. And then we'll draw them. And so you should hear by like mid July, if you, if you won any of the lovely raffle items. And again, the only way you can be entered into that raffle is by buying a Pride of Spoken piece of merch, but that's not the only thing that you're doing when you buy a Pride of Spoken merch. Evie? That's right. Because when you are buying Pride of Spoken merch, you are making a donation. All the profits from the shirt, the money is going to the Trevor Project, which is the

[00:06:29] leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention nonprofit for LGBTQ plus young people. Um, and this, uh, as you heard Grace talk about in the last episode, donating to the Trevor Project right now is, is more important than ever as, um, the, um, federal national, um, LGBTQ plus suicide hotline is being cut. Thanks to RFK. We obviously hate that.

[00:06:55] That is a nightmare that will lead to people dying and something that will help fill the gap that has always been filling the gap is the Trevor Project, uh, suicide prevention and crisis intervention hotline for, for young people, for LGBTQ plus young people specifically. So supporting their work is more important now than ever. Um, and it's just like, it's, it's, it's not an overstatement to say that it's going towards saving the life of a queer person. Like, it's just, it's just, it, it, it's that heavy right now.

[00:07:23] And so, uh, you know, get, get a mug, please. Like, it's just, this is really important and, um, it's really upsetting. And so like the, the, the little bit that we can each do to help make sure that the Trevor Project has all the money they need to take on the extra work that they're going to be taking on, uh, you know, the better. So please, please. Yeah. Yeah. Or donate to them at the trevorproject.org such important work.

[00:07:47] And also I just really appreciate seeing queer people being heroes for other queer people, whether that's you, the listener, if you are a queer person, whether that's the Trevor Project, like, yeah, that's times are rough, but like, we don't give up in the face of that and we keep going. So happy pride. Like, that's amazing. Um, but we're here. We have an interview, uh, anything else to say? Can I, can I give one, I'm going to give one things.

[00:08:17] We'd like to thank, um, our lovely podfather Rob Sestrino for giving us the opportunity to do this. Um, every June, I want to shout out some of the other people who help behind the scenes, um, including Sam Moore and Derek and Scott, uh, Jess Sterling, Jose does the graphics, uh, Brandon Donlin who does the, the, the social media clips, uh, dimension Sam Moore. I don't know that I should mention him twice. Yeah. Don't, don't, it'll go to a more Sam Moore. You know how he gets.

[00:08:44] Um, and if I miss anybody else, uh, from the Arch AP team who works on this project, thank you. And we appreciate you. Jess Sterling for helping with editing and all sorts of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But she's worthy of saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so beautiful. Look at us being supported and look at us having. Talking to Parvati. Yeah, I know. I'm trying to say, come on, come on, get to it, get to it. Parv. All right.

[00:09:10] Here's our conversation with Parvati Shallow. Okay, everybody. This does not feel real. This is, this is a fever dream. Certainly Matt will wake me up tomorrow and it will turn out that this didn't happen. But if my eyes are true, what is happening right now is that we have with us a true queen, an icon, a legend of survivor, a legend of reality TV.

[00:09:41] Studies show that one out of two queer people, she's their queer awakening. That's science. Trust me. A survivor winner, a two time finalist. The list goes on and on. I can't possibly even do it at all justice, but suffice to say we are thrilled, excited, over the moon to welcome to the pride has spoken. And the true legend, Parvati Shallow, everybody. Huzzah. Huzzah. Huzzah.

[00:10:10] It's magical. Oh my gosh. And happy pride. Like there's, there's so much to celebrate with it being pride month. Uh, obviously there's, you know, we'll get to the down the line talking about in future months, uh, Australian survivor, Australia versus the world, all that fun stuff. Derek, your phenomenal podcast producer also happens to be one of our podcast producers. So we have that in common. We're celebrating that. Nice girls don't win is coming out soon. So there's so, so much.

[00:10:40] How, how are you doing all of this? There are a million moving parts happening right now. So there are a million. You just saw my daughter come in with our kittens too. So I like, I haven't slowed it down. Why would I have had kittens in the mix right now? Right. But you know what? Here's the deal. This is like karma because when Ama turned three, she said to me, um, all right, when I turned seven, I'm going to get a kitten.

[00:11:08] And I was like, I will make that deal. I shook her hand. I made the deal. Oh, here she knows the story about what I'm saying. So I said, of course I'll make that deal. So she's about to be seven on Monday. Oh, is that Violet? Hi, Violet. It's Violet. I think they're camera shy, honey, though. They don't like it. This one's more gray. So cute. So cute.

[00:11:35] We went down to Florida and our friend Ethan's on who wants to wear a supercar. He found all these kittens under his neighbor's shed. There were like four kittens under there. And, um, and we went to Florida and got to. That's amazing. So the cats are survivors. Wow. So much in common. Give us some time so we can have a chat that's not about the kids. And then I'll come out in a little bit. Okay.

[00:12:06] I will also say like kittens are very, kittens are very queer coded. And also like that's a whole other conversation. Okay. So I'm just deep diving. I'm embedding myself in the community. Great. I'm happy to do it. Parvati, we're really just so happy you're here. Like from the, from the minute you like, from the minute you came out, we were like, one day, maybe Parvati will come on the pride has spoken.

[00:12:34] And I know that the listeners are just so excited. People listen to this podcast. Like, and really, they really live to hear the stories of, uh, players from survivor that they know and love, but didn't get to hear, you know, their, their full story and other pieces of their life. And I just know people are just going to be so, so, so thrilled, um, that you're here. It feels like you're coming into our little, little, uh, secret family. And now you're, you're here with us. And we're stirring, stirring the pot over here. So there we go.

[00:13:04] All right. I love it. Let's go. Let's do this. Well, like the first thing we're really curious about, how have you been spending this month, pride month? I, I swear, and I don't know if this is just me, but I have just seen a lot of drag queens, drag shows, gay bars popping up on your timeline and feeds and all that. But yeah, what have you been up to this month in particular with it being pride? Um, but just in general, there's, there's a lot going on.

[00:13:33] I think the whole theme of pride and the, like the emotional tone of the month is joy and vibrant colors. So I'm just letting chaos rain. You know, we went, okay, we went to Florida and we got these kittens. And then I was like, Lisa, Ethan's wife. I was like, we need to do a photo shoot. And so she dressed us in this, these wild outfits.

[00:13:58] And then we took these like absurd kind of Wes Anderson style photos with these kittens. I'm like, that's my MO this month. I'm like, let's have a good time. I just went on, um, Courtney's podcast for R and R who I met at the John Lovett show. And we talked about drag race and I mean, Courtney acts, right? Yeah. Courtney act. And, um, I've been doing a lot of drag shows recently.

[00:14:27] This is like sort of a new wave of career path that has opened up for me. Totally. And it's really fun. So I have coincidentally on the same day that my book is published, a drag show in Brooklyn at $3 bill. And I'm like, let's just extend pride month through July. Yes, that's right. You can't box us in. Okay. We demand more than one month spillover. Let's go. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Like when I was, when I'm like, oh, I'm queer.

[00:14:57] When I realized I was queer, which may had to tell me, cause I was like, I'm, um, I was like, actually, I don't know. I might have shared this on another podcast, but, or, or maybe this is an exclusive for you guys. But I, when I was on traders, the show was about to air. You've heard this before. No, they sent me, um, like a PR form for like marketing and stuff. And they're like, okay, well tell us what your preferences are. So we can kind of do that.

[00:15:24] Like we can organize your marketing and publicity for like what fits you. And so they had a dropdown for LGBTQ plus. And they said, are you, are you an ally or like none of the above? And I was like, I'm an ally. Classic. Classic. And then you were like, no, you're not. I hate to break it to you. But I was like, oh my God, it blew my mind. I was like, oh my God, I'm queer. That's so exciting.

[00:15:54] And so then I just really went for it. I told everybody and I've never put myself back in the box and I never will. That's so amazing. Yeah. There's, there's so much to that. And it's, I don't know. I just think it's, it's so beautiful to have like that awakening happen in that moment with a dropdown form. So there we go. But it's so interesting to me because for years, like even before that point, like I've heard people, we've heard people refer to you as a queer icon. I'm sure you've heard this before.

[00:16:24] And so like one, like what was, what's that even like when you're like, I'm a queer icon. Like I'm an ally. Here we are. Like, we've been talking about this for years to actually going to a point where you're like, wow, I'm, I'm, I'm one of you. I loved it. I was like, oh, this feels, it feels right. You know, when you put on a pair of clothes that fits, you're like, yeah, it's not like you have to put a button somewhere else or fit yourself into something.

[00:16:53] I was just like, oh, this, and it's, it was really joyful for me. And like, cool. I was just really excited about it. I love that. I feel like we all have those stories of like, I remember when the gay marriage Supreme Court decision happened, I was like, oh my God, I'm just so happy for gay people. I don't know why I'm crying, but I'm just so happy for them. There's other people. Definitely not me. I don't know why I'm crying, but I'm just so happy for them. I know.

[00:17:22] But I was like, I'll cry at Disney movies like that. Yeah. Right. Watch the greatest show, man, recently. And when it's like all the misfits, he pushes them out of the room with the society people. I was like, oh my God. And then when they sing their song and they claim their power, I'm like sobbing on the couch. Like, why are you crying? I'm like, you don't know. It's just so sweet. Right. Yes. Oh my gosh. They're standing up for themselves. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[00:17:53] The oddball is taking their power. That's really what it's about, you know? We talk about that sometimes too. Like how there are these things that are queer coded where it's like, oh, I just like really love this thing that happens to also have all of these themes in common with like my own identity. So that's why do you think why do you guys think that survivor is so popular in the gay community? I'm sure you've answered this. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. No, but we get this question all the time.

[00:18:21] We talk about this question all the time. And I feel like there's just like not like one answer. But I think like some of the things that come to me, especially when I think about like, you know, me as a viewer watching you and thinking like, wow, Parvati, I am just living for Parvati's game, especially Micronesia, like everything about that. I mean, first of all, it's like in so many ways, a story of like women power and women love being like the dominant thing that like takes over the universe. You know what I mean? Which is just like queer as fuck, in my opinion.

[00:18:51] And so rare on Survivor. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so rare on Survivor. And I think that there's also like we talk a lot about how queer people, you know, growing up in our lives, there's a lot of tracking social situations and like, where am I going to be safe? Yeah. Like, what's the thing to talk about so that they don't think of me as weird or like anything like that? And I think like that sort of like ability to socially navigate and things like that often makes queer people good Survivor players.

[00:19:20] And I think makes people want to watch the show and like, you know, think about those dynamics. I don't know. Does that resonate? No. Yeah. How does that feel? Like, because I would say I couldn't have said it better myself because people have asked this question before. I'm like, I don't know. It's like, you know, you just have like hot people on islands. Like, you know, who doesn't love that? But that doesn't hurt. That doesn't know. But I do feel like that piece of what Evie said of like, yeah, like the things that we have to navigate different social situations. There's like so much that we have to think through at times.

[00:19:50] And then also the other piece of that, which builds on what Evie says that oftentimes, especially if you're not out, there's like a layer here, you know, and so you might be presenting one thing, like if you're strategizing on the islands, like I'm presenting this to you, but also here's this other thing happening. I don't know. Do you have theories on this at all? Yeah, I think that that's really interesting to think about. Um, I know, I don't know.

[00:20:19] I think the girl power thing is a big one. I think with me, I've been going to these drag shows, you know, and doing meet and greets, and I haven't been exposed to that amount of fans in a really long time. Like I'll see people at the airport or whatever on the street occasionally, but like a pack of fans who are telling me you're my queer awakening man, male and female. They're telling me this and I'm like, oh my God. So I, yeah, I guess it is something.

[00:20:49] I think it's both of those things that you were just talking about because I, I have always felt a bit of, like a little bit like a, an outcast or a misfit, but like I've never really fit within the mainstream of this is polite society and this is how you right within it and succeed within the confines of like society structures. Like I have no interest in that. I'm Charissa and my Empfehlung to all entrepreneurs start with Shopify erfolgreich through.

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[00:21:47] I use Shopify already already on the first day and the platform makes me no problem. I have many problems, but the platform is never one of them. I have the feeling that Shopify their platform continuously optimizes. Everything is super einfach integriert and linkable. And the time and the time and the money that I do so far, can I invest in other ways. I can invest in other ways. I can invest in other ways. I am Charissa and my Empfehlung to all entrepreneurs start with Shopify successfully.

[00:22:16] I use Shopify already successfully. I use Shopify already since the first day and the platform makes me no problem. I have many problems, but the platform is never one of them. I have the feeling that Shopify their platform continuously optimizes. Everything is super einfach integriert and linkable. And the time and the money that I do so far, can I invest in other ways. I can invest in other ways. I can invest in Shopify. I am Charissa and my Empfehlung to all entrepreneurs start with Shopify successfully.

[00:22:45] I use Shopify already on the first day and the platform makes me no problem. I have many problems, but the platform is never one of them. I have the feeling that Shopify their platform continuously optimizes. Everything is super einfach integriert and linkable. And the time and the money that I spend with them, can I invest in other ways. Especially in growth. Now, you can test it on Shopify.de.

[00:23:09] I think there's also something really like the whole premise of Survivor where you're taking like the wilderness, which is like, I think often thought of as this is a space just for, you know, boy scouts with their prepped gear and whatever. Right. And then the whole premise of Survivor is we're taking random people that that's not their real life and look how they can thrive and survive or not in this situation. Right. And I think especially that the first winner was a gay man really proved like, oh, this is not going to be what you think it is.

[00:23:38] This is not going to be just like the military men are winning every season. This is something different. And I think it really like I think that also really speaks to queer people of like, we could do that. You know, I could do that. I've never camped before. I could go out there and do that. You know what I mean? I think that's why queer people love you. Love Sari. You know what I mean? Like, like, like, it's like, that's not supposed to be for us, but hell yeah, it can be, you know? Right. Oh my God. This is going to be very disappointing for your fans to know that I've never made a fire in the history of my time. Is that true?

[00:24:08] Don't admit we need to cut it out. We'll edit it out. No, I think that says everything. You don't need to know how to make the fire. You need to know how to get someone to help you to make the fire for you. Come on. That's I would agree or like not not put you in to make fire. That's the other piece. You know, in my in my 17 days on survivor, which is nothing on. I'm sure the over 100 that probably only 26. There were only 26. I didn't even know that. Anyway, I never made fire either. So, you know, it's all good.

[00:24:40] Yeah, no, I couldn't. I couldn't make fire with no. But like truly Micronesia is like a lesbian fever dream. I mean, I just like I feel like I watched like several seasons of the show before I got to that. I was like, I can't believe that this exists. This is here for me. I like for us, for the lesbian community. Like it's just so amazing. Watch you all just like like, yeah, eat the men. The black widow like all of it is just like it.

[00:25:08] It's just it's just I can't believe it happened. Let's go. I want to go into that a little bit because like black widow brigade like you, of course, Parvati. There's Alexis, Amanda, Sari, Natalie Bolin. I have a friend, Alex Gardner or Alex G who made this game and this must have been like 2020 because it was deep pandemic. And he made this game that was called black widow brigade on YouTube. And it's literally like based on you and the black widow brigade as characters.

[00:25:37] And I'm just like, what is our life that this is the fandom around not only just survivor, but around this specific game. So it's like so fascinating to me that that's a thing. But I'm curious, like we're we're freaking out. We're nerding out where fans, of course. But like what has been the most or like most wild thing you've seen from fans along the way?

[00:26:02] Because I feel like seeing someone make a game about a thing that you did is interesting. But I'm sure there's been a lot of that like fandom or a lot of those experiences where you're like, wow, I didn't expect that homage to me or survivor. This like one specific period in your life. Right. Well, you know, it's kind of funny now is, well, people have like named their babies after me and stuff.

[00:26:29] And I'm like, oh, that's a tough gig for a kid. It's hard. I wrote, I wrote about it in my book. I wrote about like the guru named me from where I came from. And it was a tough name to have growing up. Now I have embraced it, but I'm like, don't name your kid after me. It's not poverty. No. Right. Oh, no. Poverty. Poverty. He could not say for the longest time.

[00:26:59] Finally figured it out. I think Russell says it wrong, like the whole season of hero zones. Oh, gosh. Yeah. I choose my battles with that guy. Totally. Yeah. Totally. But now people on cameo, this is the funniest stuff that I get is like people on cameo will ask me to like burn them. Oh, no. They're like, I forget the word for it, but they're. Roast. Roast. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:27] Never made fire, but she can do a good roast. I've never. Oh, I love that. I'm really having fun roasting people on cameo now. That's so mean to them. Yeah. Like, I don't know. Other than that, it's it's I'm sure there's been a ton, but I can't. It's like in it's like in one year out the other kind of. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, go for it. Okay. Since we're in the Micronesia general genre. I don't even know how to ask this as a question, but I'm just going to.

[00:27:57] I'm just going to try. I'm just going to go for it. Okay. The one of the most iconic scenes for me. Oh, in that. In that. I know where this is going. Is Natalie Bolton's final tribal question to you of to the effect if you haven't seen it in a in a long time to the it's the effect of, you know, poverty your game you you flirt a lot you charm people. How does that translate to the bedroom? And you know, again, already a iconic queer moment on survivor before knowing that you were queer. I don't know.

[00:28:27] What is that? What? What was that moment like for you is one question. Is what is it like for you now? I was like so confused by the way she phrased the question. I was like, what do you mean? Right. Do I with people in the bedroom or I didn't know what she meant and I really wanted to give her what she wanted in that moment. I want to tell you what you want to hear. So right.

[00:28:54] You under help me understand Jeff's face was like, but I, I knew I was going to get Natalie's vote anyways. So I was just like, I was just flirting with her. I just flirted. And you got her vote. And that was correct. I think. And still to the day, I'll still flirt with Natalie. We, and I don't need her vote anymore, but we did a paper magazine. I saw that. Yes.

[00:29:23] And like, we put mud all over each other's bodies and took a shower together and they put all the photos up on the paper magazine. Oh my gosh. We just have a great life. You know that that exists. That's great. We're going to need to have Natalie on in the future at some point to give like the other side of the story. Like what's, what was the thought process around the question? What can you possibly answer to that question? I think it's a great question. You flirt with her, right? That's what you wanted. Yeah. And you knew that. And that's why you're the queen.

[00:29:53] Yeah. I'm pretty good at reading the room. Yeah. Oh my gosh. This is amazing. It's, but it's so interesting because like, again, this is like the queer icon thing of it all where there's so many times where I'm like, and I even looked this up. I was like in quotes, queer icon poverty. Like you see stuff come up before you were out, of course, but like we've talked a little

[00:30:20] bit about why your career icon, all that after coming out, you did play, you have played a number of games. I'm sure there might be other games in the future who knows, but like, what was, I don't, I'm curious. And I think this is something that Evie brought up beforehand before recording. This is like, did you, have you noticed any difference in playing these games from before coming out or realizing your career versus after coming out as queer?

[00:30:49] And I think of like deal or no deal Island, but the traders obviously so on and so forth. Yeah. It just gives me more maneuverability. Like I just, there's more, uh, ways to connect with people. I think, I don't know that it reduces my threat level in any way, but it does make people curious about me. Mm hmm. They like, they want to understand.

[00:31:16] So I think even though people know that I'm a threat and that I'm a dangerous player, they still want to get close to me because they want to figure me out. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So I think adding in the layer of now I'm queer, people are like, wait, what? She wasn't before. Now she is. And it's what boggles people's minds. So they can't like wrap their head around me and contain me. They can't put me in a box. Yeah. How do you fight a shadow? Like you can't.

[00:31:46] Wow. Mm hmm. Is there, maybe they should call you poverty shadow. Okay. That was, that was corny. That was good. Yeah. But no, I'm curious. Is there an example? That was horrible. I'm sure no one's ever made a shallow joke before. Yeah. Yeah. Is there, is there a, uh, an example of what you're talking about though? Cause I'm curious, especially thinking of traders, but also Dondi, like anything that jumps out

[00:32:12] in terms of anyone who was like leaning in, especially because of just all these aspects of you. Well, Philip on dealer, no deal Island. Uh huh. What's like a fan of may and knew about me and say, she'll also, um, wanted to get close because of that. And, um, CK on that. So I had a lot of, even though David was my primary Alliance because we knew each other

[00:32:41] from survivor and I was like, I was a gamer. I'm going to lock in with him. And then CK was like, all these other people were new who I didn't know. Um, but CK knew that I was queer or gay and are queer. And she's a lesbian. Yeah. So she was like, Oh, cozy. And we were, yeah, it just kind of, there is something about using that magnetism of attraction. Mm hmm.

[00:33:10] And the flirtatiousness. If, if the game context allows for it, it's good to lean into it because it's just another element where you can kind of pull people in to work together and bond and connect with. So you can, you know, make game moves with them. If there's a little attraction, it doesn't work every time. And not every game is conducive to it. Like traders for me was not very conducive to that.

[00:33:39] Though I do. And I had a good flirtation going for a while before I killed her. Oh, I can see it. Yeah. Well, that's why she would drink, drink the chalice. Of course, you know, Yeah. I can see we had a little, a cute little flirty friendship. Mm hmm. But then she had to die. Cause I couldn't, and I was like, no, I'm not close enough with anyone else for this. I was so messed up. And I wrote that story in the book.

[00:34:05] So it's actually like really fun to kind of hear my, what, like what was going on in my mind. Cause you just see it, um, on the show play out as like the front facing performance and then the interviews, but you can't like, I talk about the feelings that I had and I had to make that choice. Poor sweet. I can't see. Mama seems to talk about her. It's like, Oh my God. That's amazing. Yeah. That's really amazing.

[00:34:34] I'm like, on a totally not queer note on, on this front. I just want to bring up, uh, it was announced so we could talk about our dear podcast boss, Rob Sesternino and the traders. And obviously we won't see that until early 2026, but I mean, I don't, you know, I'm, I don't even know if there's any question I had in relation to that.

[00:35:00] I don't know if there's advice you would have for Rob, even though he's, uh, either in Scotland or on his way back. How do you think he's going to do? Yeah. I don't know if he has the flirt game going on, but, uh, you know. Well, you know what he does have going on? He has like Papa bear energy. He does. That's going to help him a lot. Also, I saw that real that y'all posted on. Oh my God. Rob being like a real daddy. And I was like, Oh my God, he's going to.

[00:35:29] Listen, he's the podcast daddy. It's like, um, it's like Rob Sesternino mindset or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really liked that. I think he's going to bring it. I'm excited to watch him play. Yeah. When he's in the zone, he, he gives daddy for sure. He, you know, he's in charge. He's in charge around here. You know? Yeah. I love that vibe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to say, I mean, we've been centered around is queer the, the right label for you. Is that feeling like the right word?

[00:35:59] Like, is there any elaboration you want to do on that? I know people have different relationships to labels and labels can be hard and weird, but queer, queer is the best, best term for you. Is that right? That works for me. It's like, yeah, it feels open. Yeah. Yeah. And expansive. And that's really like what works for me, but sometimes I say different things too. So I'm just not really that. Like, I don't really care that much about labels because it's a feeling for me.

[00:36:27] Then I don't need people to see me in any certain way. And I think that is the, like, that's the work of my lifetime. And where I've gotten to through the process of writing my book is I really noticed how much in my younger years, my earlier years, especially, um, going through high school and, um, college and then getting cast on television. So young, I wanted people to see me a certain way. I wanted people to like me.

[00:36:55] I wanted people to have good opinions of me. But now after having lived so much life and gone through so much intense, so many intense experiences and then written my way through it and processed, I'm at a place where I'm like, yeah, I don't really care what you call me. Like, if you're going to be mean, I'm going to block you.

[00:37:17] But like, it's, I'm not precious about how people see me and like being labeled, whatever. Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. That makes so much sense to me. And I think I have a similar relationship with queer and, you know, labels like that in general. And I think, um, something related to your survivor games. And I heard you, uh, and the interview you did with Rob about, about the book, which people should totally check out. It was a fantastic interview.

[00:37:44] Um, and you talked about like how after Micronesia people really, or maybe after heroes, villains too, like people really put you in this box forever of like black widow, scary. Like they, that's really a clear box in people's minds. Like, you know, reduced down to the hot girl who's going to manipulate the men and like kill them or something. And which is awesome. Which is, you know, if you're gonna, it's not right. Yeah, Cecilia. Exactly. And that adds such a layer. Yeah. We're all terrified now.

[00:38:12] It makes sense to me that you were saying, you know, as you've played these games now, since you've come out, that there's some additional level of like approachability or something like that. And I, it makes a lot of sense to me of just like, you've that just by being like, I'm queer, that violates some expectation people have of what the black widow is. Even though me watching it as a queer person was like, this is the queerest thing I've ever seen in my life.

[00:38:35] Like, you know, like, I think that's one of the joys of having the queer identity and embracing that for myself is it has opened me up to a whole new way to connect with this community and people who are fans of mine in the first place.

[00:38:55] And it sort of does make us have a shared, like something that's, that's really precious about me is that is how I love people. And I think that's precious for everyone. Like that's our deepest, sweetest part of ourselves is how we love people. So if you and I share that in common, that's a really, that's like a really strong connection just right there, just from that one embracing that label for me. Yes. It's great.

[00:39:25] It gives me a big boost. Yeah. And to have that shared experience of like, at some point in your life, you had to do this thing of figuring this out about yourself of telling it to people, you know what I mean? Like, there's just like this commonality of that shared experience that I always find, like, when I'm talking to fans at events and stuff, I'm like, you know, sometimes I'm struggling with what to say. And then the person's like, I'm queer. I'm like, thank God. Okay. Now we've got, you know, now you have a common ground. Yeah. To connect from.

[00:40:23] Yeah. And then the person's like, yeah. From your book, Nice Girls Don't Win. And because we were talking about just this idea of what people connecting this chapter non-binary, which we're excited to read.

[00:40:45] But the fact that I believe it was like the sound engineer of the audio book was saying, oh my gosh, I connect with that so much. I am so curious, like, because we don't want to spoil the book. We'll get to the book. What is that chapter non-binary, like, about from your perspective? That actually was my favorite chapter to read when I recorded the audio book. And I cried. And I had to, like, go to the corner and cry and then come back and be like, okay, all set.

[00:41:15] Let's read. Wow. It's really wild to, like, read this. My book is really emotional. It's like an emotional ride.

[00:41:23] And that chapter was, like, it was, that chapter articulated, it landed all of the work that I had done to heal myself, to take really good care of myself, to move beyond survival mode,

[00:41:47] to move beyond this sort of pleasing, like, to say safe kind of mode of operating, to move past a place of this is the right way of doing life. And this is the right way of being in relationship. And this is how I act if I'm a woman. And this is how I act if I'm dating. And I like men. And this is how they're supposed to act when they date me.

[00:42:11] Like, I would just contort myself to perform woman without even knowing I was doing it whenever I was in the presence of a man. And when I started dating May, all of that just went away. And I didn't have to try to make it go away. It just didn't exist.

[00:42:37] And so there was so much freedom and expansion inside of that experience with May in this sort of chapter that I talk about. And it changed my whole paradigm for how I live my life. So much less judgment and so much less performance and so much more authenticity and just this is right for me. This is not right for me.

[00:43:05] And I get to, like, I get to just be free to be myself without all of those rules of femininity or whatever that I put on myself and that culture puts on us. Wow. I just, like, let it all go. Like, you're holding a balloon and it just flies away. Oh, my gosh. Sorry. It's, like, getting to me because part of what... I love that you brought up the question of, like, why do queer people love Survivor?

[00:43:34] Because I think even just the expectations around gender and how it's performed and how we show up. Like, what does it look like for me to be a man? Like, what is masculinity? What isn't that? And then how do I just live my life as me regardless of what the norms are? And how do I just be myself? Like, that's something that queer people are constantly being pushed to do and asked to do.

[00:43:59] And people in general are being pushed to do and asked to do, which I think is, like, regardless of the conversation explicitly being there or not around you, I do think that's one reason that so many people have gravitated to is just, like, being yourself and, like, doing your thing and, like, celebrating that and constantly learning who you are and evolving and just being true to you, which is really awesome. And it changes.

[00:44:28] We change for the course of our lifetime if we're doing life right. Yeah. Life gives you experiences. It gives us material to work with. And I believe we're all, like, life artists. So we're all creating with the world around us and whatever experiences we're offered up. So if you can be more in tune with yourself, you're going to just live a more abundant, rich life. And it's so much more fun to do it like that.

[00:44:57] I totally relate to that. And I think, like, I think that's one of the, you know, people think about queer dating as just, like, oh, that's who you love. But then it's also, like, kind of what you're getting at is also it's like you're throwing out the entire script. Like, so much of straight dating is, and you don't even necessarily realize it because you're just doing it, is this is what the man's supposed to do. This is what the woman's supposed to do. Even in the most, like, in college, I had a boyfriend. Like, he was not super masculine. I clearly was not super feminine.

[00:45:26] And yet still, we were doing the stuff, you know what I mean? Because that's just what you're doing in society. And that's just everything you're taught from a, you're a little kid and you say, I'm friends with that boy. And they're like, ooh, is that your boyfriend? You know, like, those are, that is in there for so much of your life. And then, like, I really resonate with, like, the first queer, like, queer, even, like, kiss I had. I was like, oh, my God, I'm playing such a different role in this kiss than I normally get to play. And I'm obsessed with it. How do I do this again?

[00:45:56] You know? And I feel like, yeah, that shift is enormous. And then you're like, oh, there just doesn't have to be a script ever, actually. You know? Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. Being queer is good. It's good. I agree. I agree. Like, really does, like, for me, it, like, really just, like, opened the door to so many other things in life where it's just like, yeah, you don't need to follow that. There are so many scripts that were given, right? So whether you're straight or queer, you can throw those away.

[00:46:26] And, yeah, you can freaking go on reality TV. You can, you know, date whoever you want. It's just like, you can be whatever gender you are. It's just, yeah. Yeah. And I really dived into that in the book towards the end and then not in the Beyond Binary chapter. And it's about a hallmark of healing. And it's being able to hold space for shades of gray.

[00:46:48] And to not know and to not have to name or define something or have it be kind of categorized. It's just let it exist. And if you can let something exist, that is sort of paradoxical. Like, there's people in my life who have really hurt me. And also, I still, I have love for them or compassion and acceptance.

[00:47:17] So it's like, can you hold both of those things so it doesn't have to be so rigid, all or nothing? And I think that that's really what the whole chapter is about. It's just about, like, kind of blooming like a flower and letting yourself have that, take up all that space. And then just feel the sunlight and just let it feel good.

[00:47:40] And then just move towards what feels good without having to necessarily name it or know what it is or know where it's going. It's like, can you kind of stay just in that space of presence, in embodied presence? And I think that is what helps me win game shows. That makes so much sense. Embodied presence is the thing that helps you win game shows.

[00:48:08] Could you say one more sentence about that in the reality TV sphere? Like, you're able to, what, be like so able to, I don't know. I can't even, I don't win, I don't win reality shows. I am able to hold, like, I'm able to hold space for my anger or betrayal or whatever. And also over, like, override those or not.

[00:48:37] I wouldn't say, let me say that again. I think when I walk into a container like Deal or No Deal, I call a game show a container because it feels like a bubble. Like, you just walk into this container, it's an arena. It's like a gladiator kind of arena. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know who's going to be there. And for me, that requires, like, a big, expansive openness here in my heart and across the world.

[00:49:03] If I'm out of my head, if I'm thinking two steps ahead, that's, and I'm in a challenge right now that requires my full attention, that's not going to be helpful. So I stay in the moment that's in front of me and I work with the people that are in front of me. And then sometimes in these game shows, you're betraying people, we're lying to people, we're getting lied to, we're getting betrayed, someone's blindsiding our best friends.

[00:49:29] How can I allow for all of that to happen and also still make a choice that's going to help me get to the end of the game? And instead of judging or vilifying this person for having done that or being so mad at them that I have to get revenge and I'm consumed with now I'm in the past. Yeah. Because I'm stuck in whatever happened to me and my story about it. That doesn't help me move forward in a game. That doesn't help me move forward in life.

[00:49:56] So I do the work to feel the feelings, to release them out of my body, and then come back to a place of what do I want? How can I make this what I want it to be? And I ask for the highest good for everyone in life and in reality TV. If I'm playing a game, I ask for the win. That's what I'm going for. This is so powerful. And like even bringing it back to the book, Nice Girls Don't Win, how I burned it all down to claim my power.

[00:50:26] Would you say that embodied presence is your power or like what is your power overall? What's your superpower? I'm curious. Yeah, I think it's embodied presence. I think it's the ability to feel my feelings that when I can't like, I could not feel my feelings for so long. And I just, my whole strategy for life was, and I write about this extensively in the book because I think a lot of people do this. But I just dissociated. I was just like, oh, that's painful.

[00:50:55] I don't want to feel that. And so I just didn't. And I moved forward. And it was very successful for me for a long time until it wasn't. And then I had to look at, oh my God, I've just left myself behind. I've left my body behind. Yeah. So the work that I've done has brought me into a place of embodied presence. And from that place, I can make choices that are right for me because I'm being authentically myself. Oh my gosh, this is so, I love how deep this is.

[00:51:24] I feel like I have to like sit with this, spend time with it. It's so powerful. Embodied presence, one of your amazing superpowers. Headbands, another amazing superpower of yours. Great transition, Matt. That's a top. I just wanted to put that out there because in this conversation, if we don't talk about the headbands, I feel like we're going to get a lot of angry comments from folks.

[00:51:47] But I mean, there's so much else we could talk about here in this conversation in so little time. I mean, Abby, like where do we even go from here? Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's so much to say. I also want to say, I think people, you know, if you're getting ready to play a game show, you're like, what do I got to do? I got to study the BR rules. I got to listen to some Rob as a podcast. Now, you know what you got to do. You got to buy Parvati's book. You got to learn about how to do embodied presence. And that makes so much sense to me. Like so many people are playing.

[00:52:17] I think both about people in games playing for, you know, the past in the game of like, I'm pissed at that person and et cetera. I think also people are bringing in. How did I want to play this game? How did I want like, what was my expectation going in? And like the things I'm trying to, you know, like, like I want, I wanted to play with this kind of person. So I need to like make that work. And I think like that's so true in so many life situations.

[00:52:41] So that makes so much sense to me that like the ultimate harnessing of the power would be able to be like, like, you know, able to be like, I'm here. I see what's actually in front of me. I'm not deluding myself that it's not there. It's there. I mean, what do I do about that now? Like that seems, that seems so right and true and smart. I'm, I'm, I'm a little mind blown over here. That's yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. God, we got to get, I can't wait to read the book. No. I, I, I, I, you guys some copies.

[00:53:11] I can't believe you don't have one. Yes. No, absolutely. And also like, look, I, I even have it pulled up the book tour dates. I'm look, I'm in Washington, DC. I will be there at 6th and I on July 10th. I will be there. I'm going to bring everyone I know. So excited for that. And then there's like Brooklyn. You mentioned Brooklyn, New York, there's Bloomington, there's LA. So I feel like you might need more book tour dates, but that's just me. Well, this is just the first week.

[00:53:39] So I'm sure I'm going to be doing some more in-person kind of pop-ups. Amazing. No. But yeah, I got a crazy schedule. So we're going to get this book in as many hands as possible in a short amount of time as I can. There we go. So yes, we want the listener. We always like encourage listeners get there. The pride has spoken buffs, shirts, whatever, but more don't get the, like you could get those. That's great. Get nice girls. Don't win. Like get pre-order your book now. Get both. Get both. Get both. Get both.

[00:54:10] But for this moment, this minute, nice girls don't win. And get that any, like anything else. Are the other myths? Oh, go for it. Yeah. Well, I was going to say, we, you know, we always ask, ask our guests. So it's the end of, you know, do you have any messages for the queer listeners of these podcasts, especially queer people, a lot of queer people listening to these. And I mean, you've offered already so much like rich advice and things like that, but anything you want, you want to say directly to those people listening.

[00:54:37] I would say, don't be afraid to embarrass yourself that you want in your life. Like if you want something, just go for it, throw yourself into it. Even if you fall on your face and people laugh at you, it's so worth it to do that. Oh, I love that. Such good advice. Such good advice. I say that because my survivor audition tape is humiliating and I'm so grateful. It's never seen the light of day. What are you, what are you doing in it? What are you doing?

[00:55:04] Being absurd, being truly absurd. So like, oh gosh. And I've embarrassed myself so many times on national, international television. So like, it's really in the name of moving, like getting the life that you want, building a bigger life, having something that in your life that enriches it and makes you happy. You might have to embarrass yourself and look stupid. So I would say just do that. Yeah. I think that's so right.

[00:55:32] And I just really want to thank you so much for like, for being here and for writing the book. Like, I think, you know, we feel like people feel like they know you because they've watched you on TV so much, but we really have gotten very little of like your real story outside of within the game. So I think this is just like so special. And it was like so fantastic that you came here and talked to us. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me. And the book is so intimate and personal. I think a lot of people will be very surprised to learn a lot of the things that are in there

[00:56:01] because it's not something I've talked about ever. It's so wild to think about the fact that, to Evie's point, people feel like they know you so well through these edited platforms and edited contexts where it's like, of course, Parvati is on Heroes vs. Villains. So we're going to position her this way or in this context or it's a game.

[00:56:25] But like, it's so amazing that one, you could be on this podcast, but also that you could just share your story in your words. And I'm going to get the audio book, the book. I'm so excited. Oh my gosh. Evie, we're going to have to do like a book club or something like that. Oh my God. Do a book club. I'll come back. You guys, after you do a book club, we'll do another podcast. Hell yeah. Done. Deal. Signed. Good. Yes. There we go. Awesome.

[00:56:52] And we know you keep your commitments because you got two kittens for your seven-year-old. I know. I would have not done that. We had to follow through. You're amazing. Thank you so much, Parvati. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. Everybody get the book. Listen to our book club when we do it. Yeah, this was the best. Thank you so much, Parvati. Thank you guys. I'll see you later. Happy Pride. Thank you. Happy Pride. Thank you so much for listening. My name is Grace Leader.

[00:57:22] You can find me on social media at HiFromGrace or at GoFromGrace. And I'm Evie Gigoda. You can find me on Instagram at EvieJag and on TikTok with the account name Evie from Survivor. And I'm Matt Scott. You can find me at MattScottGW on all platforms. And this is The Pride Has Spoken. This is The Pride Has Spoken.

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