The Pride Has Spoken | Episode 18: Katurah Topps and Sabiyah Broderick

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[00:00:30] Ich bin Charissa und meine Empfehlung an alle Entrepreneure startet mit Shopify erfolgreich durch. Ich verwende Shopify schon seit dem ersten Tag und die Plattform macht mir nie Probleme. Ich habe viele Probleme, aber die Plattform ist nie eins davon. Ich habe das Gefühl, dass Shopify ihre Plattform kontinuierlich optimiert. Alles ist super einfach integrier- und verlinkbar. Und die Zeit und das Geld, das ich dadurch spare, kann ich anderweitig investieren. Vor allem in Wachstum. Jetzt kostenlos testen auf shopify.de

[00:00:58] Hello everyone and welcome to The Pride Has Spoken. I'm Matt Scott, one of your hosts of The Pride Has Spoken. My pronouns are he, him. I am not alone. What's going on? This is Evie Jagoda.

[00:01:27] I use they them pronouns. How are you doing, Matt? I'm great. I'm happy to be here. And we have an unprecedented episode of The Pride Has Spoken happening right now. We have two guests. This is the first time we've had two guests together at once. People are probably gagged at what's happening. Like, what's going on, Evie? Well, we have an extremely special episode because, you know, over the last season or two,

[00:01:56] we've become more than just talking about people's past. We've become basically a breaking news outlet. We've had multiple people now come out publicly on this show. And we have a different special version of that on this episode. Ooh, super special. Using this podcast as an official hard launch of, I believe, the first ever queer survivor couple. Who do we have today, Matt?

[00:02:26] Ooh. Oh, we've got the love. We've got Sabaya and Rebecca Tura. And they're dating. And I've known about it for a while. And it's so fun to get to talk about it finally publicly. This is so exciting. This is thrilling. And I'm so glad that they're choosing to share this on The Pride is Spoken. I do feel like someone needs to do a study about podcasts and how that ends up being just a great place to, you know, come out hard launch news about your lives, share deep details of your lives.

[00:02:55] Like, I love what we're getting to do. It's kind of insane that we pack it all into one month. So, but we do it. It's amazing. It's amazing. We do it. I am so excited. Keturah and Sabaya, this is like so exciting. Like we haven't had a big, there's not been that many big public survival couples like in a long time. I feel like pretty much throughout the new era, we had our like D's and Austin's and we had some flirt mances, but this is real. They are dating right now. You're going to hear all about it. This is breaking tea.

[00:03:25] I'm so excited. And they're a beautiful couple. And this is just so beautiful and exciting. And it's not so pumped. Yes. I'm so pumped up because this you're getting me fired up, Evie, because what, like what in the world are we doing? This is a dating show now. Yes. We, I know that I'm sure there have been some pride has spoken love connections out there in the world. Let us know. Tweet us hashtag the pride has spoken if they've happened, but this is real. This is happening. Oh my gosh. We love, love. We love, love.

[00:03:55] We love, love. We love, love. This is so beautiful. Um, and we want to bring you the interview. We're so excited. So let's get the business out of the way. Yeah. Yeah. Let me first say this, that I have last year, I had two queer friends who, who came out and I gave them each a pride has spoken buff as part of their coming out just as a celebration. So you can, I think you could still get some pride has spoken buffs over on Rob is a website

[00:04:23] dot com slash store, but we also have all sorts of other merch. We have the shirts, we have hoodies, we have mugs. We have, there's more check it out. Rob is a website dot com slash store. Like I, I actually need to get all of my new merch. It's kind of hot here in DC now, but, uh, I need that hoodie life going on. Like that's the next stage. I do. Yes, you do. And it's all the money from the pride of spoken gear is going to an amazing cause. Like we do every year.

[00:04:52] And this year the money is going to the Trevor project. Matt, would you tell us a little bit about what the project is and why our wonderful listeners should be supporting them? Evie, Evie, don't hold me back. Let me just dive in and tell you about the Trevor project. So I love the Trevor project. I've loved them for many years. They've been around for a long time and they're the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention nonprofit for LGBTQ plus youth. Hi there. This is Grace just popping in very quickly to chat about some things that have been happening

[00:05:20] this past week with LGBTQ youth specifically, um, in the United States. So the Supreme court upheld Tennessee's ban on healthcare for trans youth and the Trump administration announced it will shut down the national LGBTQ plus youth suicide lifeline in 30 days. Um, so if you don't know the, um, uh, nine, eight, eight suicide, uh, lifeline had a specific LGBTQ plus service that would route those folks to people who could directly, um, help support

[00:05:49] LGBTQ plus youth with anything that they were going through. And, uh, the government decided to end that thing. The hotline will still, they still be there, but the specific LGBTQ youth support services that were offered are being, uh, shuttered. Um, so this is terrible news in addition to, um, trans healthcare, which is really just gender affirming care, which is, you know, puberty blockers, um, gender affirming care, um, things

[00:06:14] that almost all scientific associations and pediatric associations say, um, you know, are effective and work, um, are, you know, uh, not, uh, has been, this ban has been upheld by the Supreme court. And then in addition, um, the suicide, uh, youth line has been shuttered. Um, we had already been doing a fundraiser for the Trevor project, um, which does host a, um, a support line, a suicide prevention support line.

[00:06:41] And we're going to continue to do that and think, you know, um, unfortunately it's now more prescient than ever to, to do that. So the ways you can support is you could obviously go donate directly to the Trevor project. You could buy a piece of merchandise from the RJP store. So that is a buff. If there are any left available, a t-shirt, we have new sweaters, um, stickers, um, things like that. You could, a mug, you could go and, um, buy one of those and all of the profits to those will go to the Trevor project.

[00:07:11] Additionally, if you do that, you'll be entered into a raffle, um, as we've been saying, um, to win, um, a meet and greet with a survivor player or an RJP podcaster. So just some extra incentive to do that, but we'd really appreciate, um, anything we can do, uh, to help these folks, you know, the 988 will still be up and running, but for folks who are specifically looking for LGBTQ plus type support with LGBTQ counselors, people

[00:07:36] who understand, um, and can support those folks, um, the Trevor project will be, uh, an incredibly important service for those folks. So please, um, donate if you can buy a piece of merch, um, and thank you so much. I think that's it. I think that's it. Check us out. Stay tuned for this interview. This is our second to last episode of the season. I promise you, you are not gonna miss, want to miss the last episode. My voice just cracked thinking of the next episode.

[00:08:05] Matt and I are really excited. We can't talk about it yet, but it's gonna be great. We're gonna cry. I'm gonna cry. Oh my gosh. All right. Check out this conversation, our interview with Katara and Sabaya. I'm Charissa and my advice to all entrepreneurs start with Shopify successfully. I use Shopify already since the first day and the platform makes no problem. I have many problems, but the platform is never one of them.

[00:08:33] I have the feeling that Shopify their platform continuously optimizes. Everything is super einfach, integriert and verlinkable. And the time and the money that I do so, can I invest in other words.

[00:08:54] I can invest in other words. In Wachstum. In Wachstum. Jetzt kostenlos testen auf Shopify.de. Ich bin Charissa und meine Empfehlung an alle Entrepreneure startet mit Shopify erfolgreich durch.

[00:09:22] Ich verwende Shopify schon seit dem ersten Tag und die Plattform macht mir nie Probleme. Ich habe viele Probleme, aber die Plattform ist nie eins davon. Ich habe das Gefühl, dass Shopify ihre Plattform kontinuierlich optimiert. Alles ist super einfach, integrier und verlinkbar. Und die Zeit und das Geld, das ich dadurch spare, kann ich anderweitig investieren. Vor allem in Wachstum. Jetzt kostenlos testen auf Shopify.de. Ich bin Charissa und meine Empfehlung an alle Entrepreneure startet mit Shopify erfolgreich durch.

[00:09:51] Ich verwende Shopify schon seit dem ersten Tag und die Plattform macht mir nie Probleme. Ich habe viele Probleme, aber die Plattform ist nie eins davon. Ich habe das Gefühl, dass Shopify ihre Plattform kontinuierlich optimiert. Alles ist super einfach, integrier und verlinkbar. Und die Zeit und das Geld, das ich dadurch spare, kann ich anderweitig investieren. Vor allem in Wachstum. Jetzt kostenlos testen auf Shopify.de. Ich bin so excited. Ich kann nicht keep es in.

[00:10:20] Ich bin so einfach, ich bin so excited. Ich bin so excited. Welcome to the Proudest Spoken in der Debut. As the hottest new Survivor couple. There is the hottest new era couple of all. The first ever public queer Survivor relationship. Please welcome to the podcast, Gatora and Sobaya. Oh my God.

[00:10:50] This feels so surreal. Right, literally. Like, come out. You're coming out. What are you? Bring them out. Bring them out. I'm like, okay. Yeah. It's game time. It's game time. There's one thing we understand. It's game time. Right? Oh my God. If you are only listening to the audio version, I just want you to imagine just the biggest smiles, the most beautiful people you can imagine. This is just so sweet and exciting.

[00:11:18] And like, I'll just say for myself, I've been ever since I heard a little bit about this relationship from Gatora. I've been so excited to know everything. And now I'm so excited to bring it to you all together and to have your love just out here and for everyone and just like, y'all, you're so beautiful. This is so, I can't wait to hear everything. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having us.

[00:11:43] Honestly, what better podcast to be a part of our Roll Out launch week than the Pride has spoken. Obviously, we love you guys, like no matter what. Like, clearly you have a place in our heart, right? Like, obviously. And it's Pride Month. And it's Survivor. I mean, every time people are like, how'd you meet? We're like, well. It always feels like we're like, flat chasing when we have to tell our stories.

[00:12:09] Especially when we're talking to couples, it's like, we'll go on and on about them meeting at a restaurant and how it was so awesome. Or dating at. Right. And they're like, well, what about you? And we're like, whoa. Have you heard of this show called Survivor? It literally happened when we were picking up our dog the other day, like coming back from traveling. I was going to say, not our dog. Our dog.

[00:12:37] I have officially become the second mommy to Paris. Oh my God. Who listens to me, she responds to me. I'm screaming. She takes that really seriously, too. She's mama. I'm mommy. Oh my God. Like, really, really intense. Yeah. And I'm obviously at work all day. So she has all the time to just play and get connected. And it's very cute to see her like, kind of like, start following her.

[00:13:05] Because she used to be so upset that she would only follow me. She'd be like, we don't even care about me, Paris. And I was like, just give her some time. You know, like, show me. And now she's like. And now she isn't. You guys, I like. I'm thirsty. This is just my favorite. Queer love is my favorite thing on earth. And like, people that I know and love and from Survivor. Like, this is just so fun. And that you two are being public about it. It's just so special. Yeah, Matt. I'm like, no, I'm over the moon.

[00:13:35] I'm like in awe, too. Because I also just feel like queer melanated love is the most beautiful thing in the world. And it gives me so much hope and love and joy and all of it. And so I don't know how we're going to make it through. I don't know how we're going to make it through. It's shocking to me. Like, that. Or just stunning to me. Like, you were on Survivor. You did your thing. And yet you are like, here you are feeling all the butterflies and jitters.

[00:14:04] Is this like, are the jitters stronger than they were during Survivor? Like, what's the. It feels like they are. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I would say normally I'm like calm, cool, collected. Yeah. You know, that's kind of like my persona regularly, especially being a service member. It's not a lot that puts me on my back foot. But this one.

[00:14:34] She's like just larger than life in a lot of different ways. And it's just like, okay. Always keeping me on my toes. Always trying to like, you know, make myself better. And like, I don't know, come more into my own to reflect how much she is herself. Like, it's just, it's really, I don't know. It just gives me permission. Like being around you. You. Maybe. It gives me permission to be more of myself. And so it's really cool.

[00:15:02] Honestly, I feel like I'm, I'm relearning, you know, who I am in this relationship. And it's been really, really fun. Yeah. Abby, Abby, Abby, Abby, hold my hand. Hold my hand, please. I know. I know. It's great. No. Okay. We have to have some structure. We have to have some structure. We have to have some structure. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck structure.

[00:15:31] But maybe let's get some, let's get some questions in here. Yes, please. That's really good. Good idea. Fair. You all mentioned how we met, you know, and, and, and how that's a funny story to tell people. And it's actually not even as straightforward as I, as, oh, we, I mean, because if I memory serves, I haven't rewatched 45 in a while. Y'all never met in the game. Right. And then Sabaya was pre-merred and Katara was pre-merred.

[00:15:56] So there's people on my season that we were in the separate pools that I still have not to this day met in person. Oh, wow. Yeah. Which maybe is a little bit about these. My favorite season. I love all those. That's not the problem. But yes, I was going to say the same thing. So we, our traditional story that we tell people is we both played Survivor on the exact same season, Survivor 45.

[00:16:26] We were the only two black women on the entire cast. The only two black queer women. And then afterwards, some point we fell in love. But really, we never spent not one single day in the game playing together, which is so crazy. It's so mind blowing. Yeah. Unfortunately, we lost her early, you know? Right. But I feel like. Yeah. Okay. You want to tell them?

[00:16:56] What? It's more, more secrets, more reveals. I'm thinking because you wore my shirt the whole season. Okay. Well, we don't. Okay. You don't want to tell them. Which is kind of cool, right? Like, of course. That's so cool. We don't have to explain that. Wow. I guess I'm skipping ahead. Yeah. I wouldn't. Like, we think about. Of course, like, we're just friends at the time. Like, it doesn't have really as heavy significance as it does now.

[00:17:23] But, like, I was in a black long sleeve, like. Iconic. Thermal. Thermal. You know. Hot as hell for Fiji. Episode two. And I got blindsided, according to me. I mean, of course. It was obvious to everyone else after that. But to me, I was like, I was in my bag, you know? Yeah. And I left my shirt and I left my sneakers. Yeah. And she wore that the rest of the season. Like, this footage. She did her warm.

[00:17:55] Wow. And it was such a shock when she was booted out. Like, obviously, no one expected her to go so early. She did have one of the biggest reactions. And that's the best part about it is when you watch our season, I remember the day that we all came in and we're about to do the challenge. And Jeff is like, you know, you're about to see who was voted out yesterday, looking at Lulu. And we see that it's Sabaya gone. And they cut, the camera cuts to me, and I am living.

[00:18:25] Like, I am like. That's wild. I'm so frustrated. I'm so bothered. And I literally, Jeff was like, that's who her biggest reaction ever. Like, why? Big reaction for Cator. She was so strong and powerful. And like, you know what I mean? I'm full of all of this stuff. And I'm shocked that she's gone. Meanwhile, while, you know, she got blindsided. I'm over here in a tribe where I'm at the bottom. So I'm like fighting for my life, right?

[00:18:51] And I'm praying for a tribe swap so I can get to her. Yeah. And now she's gone. And I'm like, come on. And they even cut Kendra coming to our camp. Like, that was one job. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So Kendra in a runner reward and came to your guys' camp. Is that what it was? Yeah. She came to our camp. She ended up getting cut from the edit. Love you, Kenny. But she said at Bello, I have the Torah. You know?

[00:19:20] So that was something that got cut. I mean, people were like, always like, oh, Sabaya, she was so confident in this, this, and that. But it's like, I had a big reason to be. Yeah. Because when she was going to be with me and Sean, we were going to be the rainbow tribe plus Kendra. Yeah. You know what I mean? And Kendra, when she went to Sabaya's camp, she came back to Bello that night. And she's like, I met Sabaya. I love her. And I'm thinking, good, because I already know I love her. And so I'm like, me, Kendra, and Sabaya,

[00:19:48] we're going to be this, like, imaginary thing. Yeah, exactly. When you look at our social media, like, we have all these videos and everything. It's just Be Sabaya. And we're like, you know it would have worked so well. Right, because we love Sean. But Sean. And Sean, of course. Fast forward to, by the time I go to her camp, Lulu, where she's gone, it's just so crazy because, I mean, a little sad. At that time, I felt so alone. And I had nobody. I know I was alone.

[00:20:19] And I just was, like, cold at night, shivering. And I, like, found her shirt. And I put it on. And I was like, you know what? This kept me warm. And I'm like, I don't know. Maybe there was some sort of energetic thing. But I, like, believed, you know, when you don't have anything on an island and you're starving and you ain't got no allies and you think in any day I'm about to be me, anything helps. You know what I mean? I was looking at the win. Like, yep, that wins for me. You know, the butterflies. That means I'm going to win this challenge. And so her shirt, yeah,

[00:20:49] her shirt was assigned to me to carry on. It just so happened that we did, like, two water challenges after that. And I didn't have good water shoes. And Caleb was like, where's Sabaya's shoes? These are here. And we wore the exact same size shoes. It was crazy. For sure, there is footage of me on TV repping her as soon as she gets wet it out, wearing her clothes. If you watch her season, you'll see me in her long black shirt and in her shoes. Mm-hmm. So that's a cool, like, thing for us.

[00:21:19] It's wild. It aged well. Isn't there, like, fan fiction? I feel like there has to be fan fiction out there of this alliance. Like, people just shipping the alliance and the two of you. The fan cam cut to the Ketora reacting to Sabaya being voted out. No! Oh, my God. And then, like, do your magic, please. We need this content. Cut to this podcast. Right.

[00:21:48] Like, yay! Okay. So you played the game. Yes. That happened. Ketora's wearing the shirt. Sabaya is hanging out in the pre-merge. When did y'all actually have a... Okay, wait. Two questions. Two questions. Number one. Evie, you're on it. Keep going. I need the information. You're like, give me the tea. I came here with an agenda. Okay. My two questions are, number one,

[00:22:17] before the game, were y'all making any eyes, what's the vibes there in the pre-game situation? And then, when did you all actually first talk? Like, when was your first actual... We're allowed to talk to each other. Oh, this is perfect. This is perfect. Okay, so... It's a little late. As you know, in the beginning, you go to Ponderosa. And... Before the game starts. Before the game. So it's the pre-game.

[00:22:46] You're staying in little tents or whatever, and you're eating at the cafeteria thing that they have there, but you can't talk to anybody, which is the main thing. And it's just kind of like a bunch of eye contact, a bunch of... Sizing people up. Like, it's very... You wouldn't be surprised how much game happens. Like, that nonverbal 70% is hot and heavy. 100%. And so... Okay, of course, like, you start to gravitate towards people that

[00:23:16] you have things in common with. So immediately, I'm like, Katora, right? Like, hey, my girl. You know, so I'm like, not going to retrieve her over the top, but I'm like, trying to get her attention and stuff like that. But she was very like... By the book, it seemed like, you know, I'm like looking at everyone impossible, you know? But I was trying to be like... I wanted... My strategy going into Survivor was, I don't want anyone to be able to make any assumptions about me

[00:23:45] based on what they see upon me. I want to be like, you're a blank book. So that by the time we get into the island, whoever's on my tribe, I can merge myself to assimilate to whatever personality I need. Right. There's the lawyer versus... Like, I need friends. Yeah. Jen. Tobias is like, you're a friend. Right. So social. So there's a time where we end up... Well, basically, she goes to the bathroom. I was about to say, home.

[00:24:16] And I see her go to the bathroom. Well, baby, hold on. It's... This happens. No contact happens the entire time we're at home. Oh, yeah, the whole time. Like, every time she's looking at me, I'm giving nothing. Like, I'm sizing her up and I literally was thinking I was like, baby gay. Baby gay. Absolutely. So I'm so offended are you? Like, could you give us... Could you... What was the look you were giving her? Like,

[00:24:46] could you give us that look now? I don't even know. It's more like, you know, when you're like, casually like... Mm-hmm. Katara's like, this person is thirsty to be my friend. I was in my head. I was... I'm a textbook overthinker, lawyer, burro, type A, whatever. And so I'm in my head and I'm like... So everybody gets unique expressions from me. Almost probably to my district. But, um, I see Sabati and she's wearing like this velour

[00:25:15] lavender track. Oh, yeah. It was bands. It was so cute. It was like a two-piece. It's in my dress outfit or whatever. Yes. Which ultimately they mistake so hot. Yeah. You never think they wore it way too hot. It felt like a towel. Yeah. But they didn't like my, um, the stuff that they picked. And so that was actually supposed to be one of my, uh, freaking jury outfits. They pulled it from that and, you know, made me wear it on press day because they were just like, yeah, none of this stuff is hitting on

[00:25:45] what we thought it would be. Yeah. Creators. Okay. I'm not sure what to think based on her energy attitude. Like, I'm trying to figure out and I'm like, well, I definitely like her and I'll connect with her because she's a black girl. Like, I'm always gonna gravitate first. But I was like, are we also connected through our queerness? Yeah. And I was like, hmm, she looks really young and I'm not sure if she's sure about her gayness. But at the same time, I'm like, buzz cut,

[00:26:15] undercut, long ponytail. I'm like, I could not look more gay. I was gonna say, I watched it for 0.1 seconds on that show and I was like, that's why I misread. That was my misread. I was like, trucker. I only, trucker. You were wearing like the, I also think of it as like, it's either like a gay person or a stoner like, like, a pullover thing. I'm a misreader you know, whatever. I only, I only put that restriction on myself

[00:26:45] to say, I didn't want to lead with talking about gay or queer because I didn't want to assume and I was like, hmm, it's giving like, I could be gay but I could be new gay and not sure about my gay. Like, you know, so I was like, well, I'll be a black girl rather than lead with gay. And so, we just hadn't really had any contact the whole time and then it is the morning that the game is starting. It's 3 a.m. The boats are pulled up. This is the last second that you are at time.

[00:27:14] We are in the bathroom and no one's supposed to be in the bathroom together. No one's supposed to be talking. No one's supposed to be making eye contact. We don't know. We're in the bathroom. So I followed you. I go in the bathroom first. She follows me in. Because, and I waited. I'm like, I didn't even have to pee. I'm like waiting, washing her feet and I wait until she goes out to wash her hands and I immediately go out to wash my hands and we're sitting there for a second and I can tell she's trying not to look at me. I'm staring her down

[00:27:43] through the mirror. She's looking in the mirror. I'm washing my hands. I look up in the mirror and I can see her eyes. I look at her in the mirror. And I'm just like, oh. And I'm like, oh, and then she looks at me and she says, just so you know, I got you. And I was like, oh my God. She's just like, oh my gosh. And we're like, all I need is a little bit of

[00:28:13] if you with me, I'm with you. Like, but I don't know. So I'm trying to keep it cool. Once she gave the, I'm with you. I was like, oh. How could I not be? To me, I was going to be like automatically I'm like, yeah. I mean, we all know statistically for Survivor, Black women have a very long time going deep because intimidation factor, whatever it is. Insert every other

[00:28:41] notion about Black women. Even if you're not social, like it just depends like you do it all. And we always go early. There's always a pre-marriage and then there's like a middle of the game. Yeah. I mean, she obviously broke all of those statistics. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but hey, it's a thing. And that's another reason to try to be specifically distant to her is because I knew any slight look at her and I got you, people are going to say

[00:29:11] those two white girls are together. Did you see what happened? Exactly. What happened with her and Caleb is just immediately. And so I'm like, if I look like I'm neutral completely, no one would say, well, look, they're together and then we can go together behind the bushes and be like, I got you. And so when we were in the bathroom and she's doing this, I'm like, I swear my heart to you. Like in that moment, I'm like, I'm in it. Like, yeah, I was like everything. And I meant it

[00:29:40] and we both felt it. And then we had to I will go to the end with you deciding this moment. And it was like, walked out before me, I waited a little bit and then I walked out and then we ended up And then we got on the boats and the game started like immediately like that. And then when we got our boats, it was like, fuck, we're not on the same tribe. But we knew that they never put two black girls on the same tribe and starting. So we knew it'd be separate. It was just like, now I know I got this guaranteed person. Yeah. And then my first tribe was so hard

[00:30:09] and I was so at the bottom and I was like, okay, if I can just make it to the tribe swap, if I can just make it to the tribe swap, my kids are going to be better. And then we get to the tribe swap and they're like, Sabaya, gone. And I'm like, God! I was trying to make it to the tribe swap because it just seemed like things were just exploding all around me. Like I lost my boat. My idol is stupid. I lost my boat. I lost my boat. A candle situation.

[00:30:39] And they wouldn't let me melt it on the rocks. They wouldn't let me be creative at all. It had to be by fire. And I'm just like, I'm on fucking Lulu. You know? Oh man, stress, stress, stress. So basically, to answer your question, the bathroom. And then we never saw each other and never spoke ever again until the game ended. I just have to say out loud, that was, I am like sweating. That was an opportunity. There's the bathroom.

[00:31:09] We literally call it the bathroom story. Okay, yes. And this is like an iconic moment for us. Yeah. I love these, and if our producers listening, we definitely wouldn't break the rope. No, they would never do that. No, never. Okay, here's my question to you. You don't have to tell the story, but is that the most illegal thing you've done in a bathroom? I know it's not for you. There's a lot of things on that.

[00:31:40] To do it in a bathroom. Together, together. Put on my legal hat. The most illegal thing I've done in a bathroom for sure. Okay, thank you very much. I got my answer. Thank you very much. Wow. I mean, if two lesbians are going to say to me when we got the bathroom story, you know what I'm saying? Of course, right. Oh my gosh. Okay, wait. No, but this is, my brain is broken right now because there's so many levels to this. Like, because I'm picturing alternate universe, you end up together

[00:32:11] on the same tribe and then what happens? Then what? Well, you wouldn't have had shoes or, oh, maybe you could have shared. I don't know. I would have not. There we go. But I'm just saying. But I'm just saying, like, I think, Evie, maybe you're going to this place, but who knows? We could have gotten the showmance on the season, but when did the, I need to know when the love connection like actually

[00:32:41] came to fruition, when it blossoms, when it started to blossom. Okay, so we really were just really good friends. Like, after the show, we went to Cape Cod as a cast and I don't think we even really talked a lot that time. I know I was late and then I left a little early, but it was always just kind of like, oh, what's up? You know, like me, her, you know, of course, we were just trying to bond with our castmates before the show went on air

[00:33:11] and everything like that and then I kind of, I guess maybe through a rinsing things by going back active duty. So I wasn't at cast things, but we talked on the phone like every day. Every single day. So we like had one face time just to be like, I'm back, you know what I mean? And hey, survivor's over. Yeah. So I sent a text to everybody that was after the pre-merge, you know, and I was just like, or whatever and I'm like, hey,

[00:33:41] nobody didn't get to me. I'm Sabaya. This is like blurps about me from Atlanta, Jamaican, whatever, whatever. If y'all ever want to call or talk, hit me up. I love that. Of course, I'm hitting you up. Right. I call her and actually she was like, do you want to FaceTime? FaceTime. Yeah. And so we started FaceTiming. This is our first FaceTime, first phone call ever. Mind you, we haven't talked since the Pondi bathroom, which felt like

[00:34:10] a billion years ago at that point. And you look so different. And I look extremely different. And I cut my hair at that point. I cut my hair because I was just like, I need a release, you know? So I look different. You look all makeup-y and like everybody looks really, really different. So we start FaceTiming and, you know, I can be a little socially awkward. So I was like, you know, I don't know about FaceTime initially.

[00:34:40] I'm very limited with my FaceTimes. You got to be a special person to be in my, you could just FaceTime me group. So I was like, I don't know how it'll be, but I genuinely liked her anyway. And I was like, I want to get to know you anyway, fellow Black woman on Survivor. So I FaceTimed her and it was so natural, so easy. We were laughing. We were like best friends. We talked over an hour. hour and a half. I met her mom. I was like getting ready to go to a party and like she was on the phone with me the whole

[00:35:10] time I'm getting ready. We're like talking. Super kind of I'm like packing up my house as I was about to go back. Yeah, and it just felt natural. It felt like that's how we ended up eventually like a few weeks later being like, do you want to be best friends? Like, and I literally kept saying, yo, we're both Virgos. We know Black and we both have like different jobs that are involving service and then we both were like super passionate people, love our friends, love to party, love to,

[00:35:40] like there's just so many different things that we just have like overlapping. I'm just like, oh yeah, she can be. It felt, I kept hearing myself say, do you want to be best friends forever? Forever. You know what I mean? Like in a real genuine way. And that's such a weird thing to say. But I, we're big friends. We're like big people. Do you want to be my best friend? But I had lost,

[00:36:09] you know, through the process of Survivor, I feel like, you know, I mean, maybe you can relate to this going on TV, being in a public eye, like the real ones show and the people who are not really there for you or envious or jealous or bothered or you're on TV or you're getting all this attention, they fall to the wayside. And so I had kind of had my share of not so great people right after we filmed and me being on TV in the process of preparing for Survivor. And so I was like,

[00:36:38] you seem really genuine. And honestly, I just want to surround myself with genuine people. And if you're a genuine, dope, respectful, cool as hell person, girl, like, you know, I'm like, let's be friends in a real way. And she was like, hell yeah. And we were like, we are fucking talking on FaceTime like multiple hours every single day. Like, this has got to be friends. Everything and nothing. Yeah, exactly. Everything and nothing.

[00:37:09] She literally met my mom the first phone call. My mom was coming to help me move. My mom was like, hey, how you doing? I love you from TV. You know, she was such a link to her fan. So that's awesome. Like, people that know me and my mom are super tight. I'm like, Chuck, you know. Your mom loves it. But yeah, it just kind of was like, it was cool. We just kind of connected right off the back. I think there's something actually so special about

[00:37:38] the people that you know from Survivor that aren't related to your game in any way. You know what I'm saying? Like, there was actually on my cast, Sarah Wilson, who was out early on the green track. She was living in Boston in between when we filmed and when we aired. And we hung out a lot. And it was so amazing to just talk to someone that knows everybody on the cast, gets the whole thing, was part of it, but our stories have nothing to do with each other, not competitive in any way. No one accidentally did anything to anyone, let alone intention.

[00:38:08] And the fact that you were able to, it's like, how could you find anything better than that? Someone that understands you're 45 even. Like, you know. If I did stay longer, how would that have affected our relationship? Would we still even like each other? Oh my gosh. Or would we go at each other? Yeah, at some point. Like, my tribe, it's like, okay, the only other black guy on the tribe,

[00:38:38] the first time Emily's like, burn them at the stake, you know, and we're like, oh, everything, like, y'all put us on these strength challenges together, like, y'all, like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm almost like, I can only imagine how it would be if they saw us and we connected and we were cool and we were just doing, like, regular stuff, how magnified it could have been. People would have had to try to separate us or turn us into a throat like that. It's bad to be a duo, but we are visible,

[00:39:08] overt, like, not Camilla and Kyle. We knew we didn't have that luxury, even if we know each other previously or have any care about each other or didn't even be did it. Like, no matter what, we could do that. And so, it even came up when we were, like, I mean, obviously, Survivor 50 is, like, been talked about and, like, now we know the cast and everything, but for a moment, both of us were very big options and we were kind of, like, okay, like,

[00:39:37] what happened? What are you doing to us? And we had anybody in our relationship, so we're, like, production doesn't know. So, whether, like, asking each of us whatever, they have no idea that we are actually together. Yeah, so we're, like, what would that mean? And I guess, we don't know if it would have helped or hurt. And I think that was the main thing, it's like, okay, do they want to intentionally, I know sometimes, yeah, intentionally

[00:40:07] casted romantic interests, Michelle Wendell, obviously, Rob Amber, Rachel, freaking Tyson, did it. right, right, right. That's the first part. But yeah, and there's been some, I mean, Ozzy and probably all those people. Ozzy, Ozzy. Oh my gosh, Amanda. Yeah. Oh my God. Okay, well, like, you don't even need to worry about whether you two are going to be on a show together of some kind. I'm like,

[00:40:37] that's locked in. That's happening. I know. Oh my gosh. I would love for it to see her on Traders. And I think she would do awesome. And then we've always talked about like, oh, let's do the amazing race. We work out together and stuff like that. Yeah. We travel a lot. So like, that would just be And obviously some high record. We love her. We love her. I thought we were talking about like,

[00:41:07] oh yeah. always number one for all of us. Okay. But yeah. Okay. Wow. On the phone. We're best friends forever and we really mean it. How does it transition? This is what I'm wondering and question because I feel like here's the

[00:41:37] thing. like, Evie, you were just to comment on this. Like, you were talking about how Survivor is so special to have your person you could talk with. But it had to be so confusing of like, what is this bond? Because you've never been on Survivor before. You've never had that one of a kind experience. And then you find someone you bond with. But is it just like, is this just what happens when you're on national TV together? Or is there something where did you find the love connection? We need to know.

[00:42:07] when was the moment? We started having one of ones. Oh. I would say. In person and one. Okay, to set the stage, so Katara's living in New York. Sobaya, you're living in South Carolina? Is that right? North Carolina. North Carolina. I live in like, close to Wilmington area. Okay, so we're not that close. We are seeing or being involved in some capacity with other people. And it's actually even Sobaya, because I broke up with my girlfriend or my ex-girlfriend at the time,

[00:42:38] I broke up with her one week or maybe two weeks right before we went to go film Survivor. Yes, and you talked about that on your episode of The Pride Has Spoken. Oh, no. A year ago. Exactly, exactly. Checked out that previous episode. And so I had broken up with her or whatever, and all the psychiatrists were like, are you okay? And I'm like, no, I'm totally fine. And so when our season is about to air in September,

[00:43:08] at this point Tobiah and I are like besties and Tobiah is even telling me, you know, you might want to give her another chance and like, you know, that girl's because she's like, you know, she's trying to come back. And so I'm like, I don't know. Tobiah's like, well, we're about to be on TV. It's about to be emotional. You might want to have some support. And so I still blame you for me doing the slide back and letting that girl back. It was like a couple of people in your circle. You were my best friend.

[00:43:37] What was going on for you in that, Tobiah? Was that genuine or were you feeling something and afraid? Wow. I was also in a relationship at the time. I had no ulterior motives or anything. I was just like, I don't want you to be alone. And she was very on the fence. I mean, this is our, as in our friendship, this is like a prime discussion every day. Should I, shouldn't I? How do I feel? Do I miss her? Will I miss these aspects and I hate these other

[00:44:07] ones? Always like back and forth, back and forth. And I'm just like, well, in my experience, if you try again and it doesn't work, usually it's like, okay, now I know. I was just kind of like, if you need to feel that to where she's done something so bad, you know what I'm saying? To make you kind of like, shake her off. Because I feel like at the time, you were still in a forgiving space. No. I was just in. No.

[00:44:37] No, no, I mean, if I break up with you before I go to your home, I didn't need to break up with you before I leave for, you know, five, six weeks. So if I break it up with you then, I'm done. And so it was pretty much just like, it was just like the, I came back from Survivor and I had been rocked, you know what I mean? You watch my season and I got knocked out. And I was like,

[00:45:06] do I need a little somebody just to catch me? Maybe, you know, and she was like, you know what, it couldn't hurt. We don't know what's going to happen when they show it on TV. And so I actually, didn't know how I would be portrayed, obviously. And so I was like, you know what, it's worth engaging in that, seeing what it might feel like. I don't know what it's like to be on TV and have my personal story all out there. Right. And so we tried it for a little bit. We're both involved with different people and we're hanging together as friends all the time. And I think

[00:45:36] what changed for it is at some point we realized both of those other people just weren't working out for either of us. And it wasn't like I'm waiting in line. It was just like she talked to me about her relationship, I talked to her about mine, and they both had fizzled separately, and we were still best friends and seeing each other. And then one time it was kind of like, we always hang out with the cast or with the group of people or with friends. Come to North Carolina, she was like, get out of New York for a little bit, come by the beach,

[00:46:06] hang out, we'll chill here, and I think I ended up staying like a week. Yeah, it was like basically, we have kind of duos within our cast, like a lot of people are familiar with Kelly Brandon, Drew, even D Kelly sometimes, like we have another one of

[00:46:38] y'all, like I'm 20 minutes from the beach, I got all this space, all this yard, and she had been complaining about New York feeling like suffocating and no grass, and I've been here 10 years, and I'm like, well, look around. I got grass, look around. I got beach. You know, and not for nothing, like being in the Marines, it's like kind of lonely, we don't really have a bunch of,

[00:47:08] I don't look around and I'm just like, look at all these queer black women around me, you know, like one, I have one that like is Betty, like she's great, but it's fun, you know, like I don't I think we just feel something that each of us needed, and it was like, well, great, and then we came here and it was like, I played this whole week out because I just wanted her to get the most like out of her I want to be in pick town or whatever,

[00:47:38] you know what I mean? I don't want to be where Marines are in North Carolina in the middle of, I live in Brooklyn, 21st, like I like, well, are we going to be around civilization? I'm like, yes, it's not that bad, but trying to tell a New Yorker that North Carolina's not that bad is, oh my God, it's where I'm like moving her to the Amish spot, no, nothing against it. geez, so we went to Bloomington, we had great food, we got an Airbnb that had like an awesome hot tub and stuff.

[00:48:08] Oh, yeah, like, because it's like, it's super cheap here, like you can live lavish. Not bad, I'm not picking up on the, I mean, I'll always have a hot tub in the Nice. You need to put on the hot tub filter on Airbnb. Exactly.

[00:48:38] Even when I went to the finale for our season, my family, hot tub. She plans this incredible week, I mean, down to the T, like every day, there's a detail, there's an event, there's an I'm just wow, the whole time, and I'm just like, I think at one point we looked at each other and we're like, it just feels really good to just be with you, to do nothing with you, to sit with you, to eat with you, drink with you, like,

[00:49:09] we didn't get tired of each other, and we were with each other for 24 hours a day, seven days in a row, and it was just us. And we're Virgos, and we're both really type A. And I don't like to be around people that way. I don't. I'm a good strong, all right, we hung out, okay, bye. And the fact that we didn't get tired of each other, and then that repeated, and then again, and again, and she would come to New York, and I would go to Carolina, and eventually you realize we were seeing each other like twice

[00:49:38] a month for like a week at a time each time. It was like, I'm spending half the month with Sophia. And that was even before you kissed, or it was explicitly romantic. This is before. Oh my God. Wow. What was our first romantic kiss? This is also just like so, like obviously I'm like so thirsty for the details on the romance, but I'm just like this is so beautiful. Like to have that foundation of just like

[00:50:08] deep, deep friendship of like we love spending time together, of let's be best friends forever and mean it. Like that's so beautiful. Like that's so, so, so, so beautiful. Once we added like the physical, it was like, oh, seamless. Girl, let's do it. All right, you know, I think that's the only material. I mean, both of y'all are literally so hot. This is quite over the place. I know. And by the way, I don't,

[00:50:38] I don't think we've talked, we haven't mentioned explicit, Katara, your haircut, of course. Thank you. Which is just like, next level, here we go. I mean, I'm just really in this period where, you know, I've carried a lot of weight and heaviness and baggage. I just, I'm ready to shed it. I'm ready to just walk into this new version of myself. I remember when I walked off the island, I was like, okay, well, you played survivor.

[00:51:08] You can do anything. And like, I came back to New York with such a renewed energy of like, I can do anything. I'm not just a lawyer. You know, I did this, I did this crazy, cool, scary thing. And then you add the story and the fans and the not fans and the people and the feelings and the cast and all the things that happened. And I think I came out on the other end a little beat up. Yeah. And I, it's just like, okay, you know, how do I find my grounding?

[00:51:38] How do I figure out who I want to be again? And, you know, I've been a civil rights lawyer for 10 years. I've lived in New York for 10 years. I've always been the same because we're doing the same thing, looking the same way. And I was just like, you know what? I actually said that. You've always had the same hair. I've always looked the same whatever. And I was just like, you know what? It's time. I'm just time for a change. Walking in a new chapter. I feel fantastic. I feel excited. What's the verdict? She asks me

[00:52:08] all the time, every day. You look amazing. Oh my God. You're glowing. I just, I can't even look too hard at y'all's box. I was going to say you are glowing. For two days. This is two days of me having it. Can you give us the proper side, like the profile look? Oh. Yes. Do you feel so light? Oh my gosh. I feel like when I cut my hair for the first time from like long, long to short, it was just like your head is literally like light. Yeah.

[00:52:37] I was going to say your neck, you've got the mobility and everything. It's all, look, you've got it. I'm just saying, I feel like this is perfect. And you two like literally look so perfect together right now. You have the necklaces, you're just shirts, everything just and the glow. And the glow. Matt, you do. I love that. You're so great. Don't stop everything. No, I'm just, it's just like so beautiful. And I, I want you to be celebrated. I've, I mean, even going back

[00:53:07] to your season, like I wanted people, I mean, Katara, as you were along and sharing your story, especially like one, you just, that was so huge and so beautiful and amazing. But like, I just wanted people to like love you as much as like all of our people are like loving you, both of you. And so like to see you together, I hope like Jeff Probe should send you a congratulations. note. I don't care what he's doing. Yeah.

[00:53:38] Yeah. But I mean, I appreciate you saying that, Matt, because like for me, that's what this moment is so representative of. Like, we all have our different journeys of what leads us to Survivor, right? It's not the average person who goes to Survivor, random, cool, kick-ass person with some random coolness to you to even end up on Survivor. And like slight problems, probably, you know, but that's true.

[00:54:06] I just remember going on Survivor was my big transfer. And then you go to Survivor and you know, Survivor cuts you down. Like if you have something that you haven't been addressing, you're going to feel it when you're sitting on an island all alone with no food. Like it comes up. And so I think after that, I was very much like, all right, well, I thought I made my big pivot and now what do I do when my pivot makes me feel shaky? And so this just feels like

[00:54:38] reimagining with just me. Like I'm like, I don't need anything to validate me. I can just be me. I can cut my hair even though it's terrifying. I can like, you know, just prioritize my glow and my joy. And like, that's a big part of her too. It's like, I'm like, you know what? This feels great. This feels incredible. I'm going to run towards it head first and see. you know, I was like, I don't fall in love. You know, before that last girlfriend, I've been the, you know,

[00:55:07] a serial situation shipper and proud of it. Do you remember I was so pessimistic. I was so pessimistic when you told me to remember it wasn't I didn't know it was Sabaya. You were like, I remember very much. You said to me, we're at the, after the Brooklyn like beach drop. Yeah. Yeah. And you were like, I'm kind of like got something going on with a survivor, but it's long distance and like, you know, she's monogamous and I've never done it. Who did you think it was? I'm not, no,

[00:55:36] we can't talk about that part, but. In my head, the first thought I had was, oh my God, what if it's Sabaya? That'd be so cool. But then I was like, there was another super cool, hot, black, queer person on that season. Like, I was like, that would be like the coolest thing ever. But then I was like, that's like too even. I can't even like dream that. So like, then I was like, I don't know why. Then my brain was like, I bet it's, I bet it's Kendra. And I was like, I don't think, I don't know if Kendra is here. we were kidding. Kendra is just,

[00:56:05] that was very straight. Yeah. I started this whole thing in my head of like, oh my God, I guess Kendra is like going to Hawaii all the time. Like, I don't know. That was just my best answer. But I was like, I was like, I don't know. Like if that's like never how you've operated, like how will that go? Like it has to be, like, I was like, it better be like something really that draws you. Right. Like, like there's no dabbling around with like something totally different and more serious and long distance and like, whatever,

[00:56:35] whatever, whatever. You know? And, uh, okay. And here we are. I don't even, let me tell you how toxic I've been. And don't, don't. It's not still there, baby. It's not there. I would never even post a girlfriend. Like on social. Like you'd be lucky if he's still around, you know what I mean? And now I'm like, yes, babe, let's like tell the world. Because I'm really like, I don't know how important it is to fight for my joy.

[00:57:05] And like, it brings me joy. You bring me so much joy. And if it feels great and it's real and it's genuine, why not run for it? Take the bull by the horns and we'll figure the rest out from there. Sure. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. What was happening for you on that side? Like, were you like, okay, full steam. I'm in like, we still haven't gotten quite like, was there one moment where it transitioned? Like, yeah. Tobias, give us a little bit of your side. Yeah.

[00:57:35] Yeah. I feel like it was more so like, she would ask me all the time, like, are we doing this? Like, is this happening? And I'd be like, yeah. I mean, but I'm kind of like always kind of sure. You know what I mean? Like, it is like, I'm not going to ever hold back and I don't really live in a regret, dreadful spot. So it's like, okay. Like if, you know, this is other thing is ending and you're right here. I mean, beautiful, funny,

[00:58:04] everything I like lawyers survive. Like, I can't miss that boat. Like, it's just kind of like one of those things. Like, I feel like I would be an idiot. You know what I mean? Like, and I, I'm just not, you know what I mean? And I feel the same. I mean, I hope she feels the same about me. And I feel like that's more so like what it was. It's just kind of like,

[00:58:34] all right, well, it feels great being friends. And we promise each other all the time. Like, we'll never not be friends. No matter what. At first it was like, okay, we'll just try physical stuff and see, you know what I'm saying? Because obviously there's tension. And stuff like that. Yeah. Like, okay, but when is the right time to do that? And how do we separate romanticism from, you know, intimacy? And how's that going to complicate things? Like,

[00:59:03] it was just so many questions, but we have always been good conversationalists. Like, we talk already. We had already built that from our friendship. We talk all day, every day. She used to get upset with me. Cause she'd be like, every time we're on the phone, we talk for like two hours. I don't have two hours. And I'm like, I get it. I get it. And I'd be like, okay, we'll just hang up. Hang up the phone. Like, if you can. You know what I mean? And then eight hours. You hang up first. Yeah. Exactly. So, like,

[00:59:32] it's kind of hard to come point when it started to feel more like love. Cause I feel like I've always had like a deep, deep admiration for control. And the romance kind of started when we started being on the one-on-ones and we started making each other laugh and just spending, you know, nights together and stuff like that. And it's just like, oh, wow. Like,

[00:59:58] I can see you in my plan first up. Oh my gosh. You know, it's not regular. Yeah. It's so fun. You're just so cool about all of it too. And I feel like I, it like goes, I want to even like go back to something you mentioned of like being in the Marines, like not being a lot of like black queer people, women over the, in the Marines, like, which I just feel like is notable to talk about.

[01:00:28] Like, how are you so freaking calm about this? Cause if I were in the Marines and I'm like, okay, so where are the black queer men? Like, where are they? I don't know. I don't see them. Where are they? So it's like, I mean, I feel like I should kind of explain that. Like the stat for women is like one of 1%. It's a lot of men around. You know, we're always in admin fields. So when you're at somewhere, you can kind of feel like there's a lot of women where you are, but like,

[01:00:58] trust me in like the conglomerate that is the United States Marine Corps, the black women, we are a very small decimal point in this space, you know? Um, but there's a lot of queer, but like, we're not all here, you know, we're spread out, hundreds of faces all over the continent slash world. Um, so it's just kind of like, I don't know. I, but I, I'm a jumper. I'm a leaper. She's not. I am.

[01:01:26] And I feel like that kind of like helped balance us. And she was kind of like, uh, girl, I don't like you. And I'm like, yeah, but you kind of do, you know? And I was like, mom, what'd you do? Yeah. So we just kind of wait in that space for a little bit. So I feel like that's kind of hard for me to see, say like, okay, when did I finally win you over? Do you think you want me over? Wow. I'm sweating again.

[01:01:56] I mean, I would say because I was kind of always like, this can work. We can make it work. You saw the vision. Yeah. I will, I will be truthful. Yeah. I was like, we can do life together. Yeah. And I'm very much like, I'm just cautious. Like, you know, I don't just give out, be in my inner circle life thing. And I feel like because I'd already given her that, being my inner circle best friend forever,

[01:02:26] I wasn't thinking, be my girlfriend. You know what I mean? Girlfriend. When I met her, she was like, no offense. I've had like girlfriends, yes. So, yeah. You know, more from a poly, you know, vibey, you know, yeah. Me, like with my parents, with my parents, same siblings, married 30 plus years. Like I come from a very like. Deep monogamous energy. Like. Yeah. And I was like. So. Forever.

[01:02:57] Yeah. That dynamic at the beginning, I remember that more. So it's just like, okay. Yeah. To be kind of like her little play thing. And I was okay with that. Cause I just, you know, got out of something. So I'm like. There's more people to be played with. Right. Exactly. There's benefits to play. We have free play. So I agree. So I feel like. But once we. Did start to like get like intimate, then she kind of changed her mind. About. No, it was.

[01:03:26] Holly's. The. The. The. The. I see you. You're. You're blushing so hard. It's not even funny. Cause we did go in initially. Like. Okay. Like we're still gonna remain more open. Or the option of being open. Yeah. But I feel like. The more we saw each other. The more we traveling. I was flying her down to see me. And she was just like, you know what? I don't know. I don't know if I want to do that. Or I don't know if I want you to do that. You know? Yeah.

[01:03:57] And it's like, if we're going to do it, let's do it. Like let's try. You know what I mean? And we obviously, we don't know anything. We don't know the future, but it's like. If I'm going to do something crazy. And take a big swing. Might as well be for love. With this ridiculous. Incredible human. Yeah. That's a leap. That is a leap. But I'm taking it. I'm willing to say. For dates. We started dating. January. Officially. Officially.

[01:04:26] We made official January 20th. Yeah. Okay. So we're like six months. Yeah. We're basically at six months in. MLK. But you told me about that like a year ago. So yeah. That was me. Just playing. Yeah. That was the play. Feeling things. That was the play. It was very complicated. Yeah. Yeah. But official. Official. January 20th. Yeah. Stuff going on. No loose ends. Like everything.

[01:04:57] Wow. And just on the. Just to say about the like. Monogamy poly thing. Like I think it's also like. And I've done both in my life. And I just like feel like. Everyone out there. Like it's cool to also just be like. Yeah. Maybe there's like one that's always right for you. But also it's just like. Different relationships. Are different things. And like different people are different things. And different moments are different things. And I just think. In general. Like that's something that my queerness. Has always taught me of like. There's just not one way to do things. And like. Just like being open. To what is right in that moment.

[01:05:28] Yes. Yes. And we're already being revolutionary. By existing as queer people. Like we're already. One does. I mean. Whatever the fuck y'all think. We're gonna just do what feels right for us. That's like. Why? We're going to heteronormative ideas. In any other space. Not us. It's never going to us. We'll do it. We'll try it. We'll see what works. Yeah. Yes. Oh my gosh. It's been. You've been working. It's been. Look. We have. You sent all these pictures. Yes. That's what I was going to say.

[01:05:58] I'm just like. Gonna have to pull this up. Yes. Or send it. Yes. I should know more quickly about what we were sending. But oh my gosh. No. So we have all these. All these different pictures and moments. You're in a beautiful church. You're looking gorgeous. You have lots of candles. Where are you? Do you all travel a lot together here? We're in Chicago. The next pick. Yeah. This is in New York. The first one that's at the candle lit thing that you got me for Valentine's Day.

[01:06:28] Was that Valentine's Day? Yeah. I got her this. She loves like live music. And obviously like she's very creative and artistic. Which is another cool thing. Because I'm very lawyer. Straight brain. And she's very creative. Artistic brain. And there was just this live orchestra. Yeah. It was beautiful. They played so many amazing compositions. And she surprised me with it. Like I had no idea. It's like in the rain. I hate.

[01:06:57] No offense. New York. But I hate New York. Because it's so dirty and rainy and gross. And so we're all in the rain. And I'm like, why would you get me out of bed to go in the rain? You know? And I'm so grumpy. And then we get to the church. And I'm like. It's just gorgeous. It's a huge church. And it's like candles and water. And then the live music is playing. Oh, it's gorgeous. We go to this cute little diner afterwards. That's so much. I mean, two Virgos. You two must like just like.

[01:07:26] You're always planning amazing dates for each other. Like that's so fun. Is that good? That's why she plans incredible days. Yeah. Yeah. She's definitely the. I think that. I guess just like perspective wise. I'm good at knowing what you would like. She knows me very well. Yeah. And then we went home. She took me. Oh. I'm from St. Louis. Yeah. And she surprised me. Involved me. Tickets to see Kendrick and SZA. Oh. Oh, yeah.

[01:07:57] SZA's from St. Louis. And so she's like. So she's performing. So she flew me there. And that's. That's. Yeah. Yeah. The hotel was right by the arch. So I thought it would be cool to have that as a memento. So this is on the way to. Oh, my gosh. Wait a minute. These pictures are getting hot and heavy. I'm like, am I old enough for this? Like. This is obviously New York. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do it all the time. Yeah.

[01:08:28] There's good stuff in New York. Right. Just you. But yeah. This is on a rooftop. One of our friends. If you're audio only. You've got to pull up the YouTube. They're just so beautiful together. Like. It's just. It's really freaking heartwarming. Yeah. We just. We're. We literally. Pretty much been around each other. Since we started being around each other. Yeah. Like there's not a moment. That we're not. Either playing to see each other. Or going to see each other. Yeah. We're just. It feels good. It feels natural.

[01:08:57] We can see from all these pictures. We're just. Yeah. It's easy. Yeah. And so. You know. I know we're. I know we're only. Technically. Six months in. What are we doing? We're. We're going to. Bounce back. We're going to do like. Split time. New York. North Carolina. We're. We're scheming about. We're planning by ear. Right now. I'm like. I'm like. When is. Where is my invite. To the wedding. And I'm like. Just keep diving.

[01:09:27] We are six months in. We will date. For a while. Right. We're going to. We're going to enjoy this. We're going to love this. And honestly. I think the biggest thing is. I'm traveling a lot. For work now. So. We got. I got my travel buddy. We're going all around. You know. I haven't. Announced this. Publicly. Officially. But. I am. Officially. Writing a book. Wow.

[01:09:56] A really cool. Book deal. And so. Oh. Yeah. You're like. Writing a book. Actual book deal. I'm seeing. My memoir. Right now. And so yeah. I've already been. Contracted. Macmillan Publishers. Swoops me up. And it was just. Really cool. Thank you. Yes. You've been with me. The whole time. Oh man. We got the auction. For all the book. And I'm meeting with all these publishers. And they're like. Come here. Come here. Come here.

[01:10:32] How does it. How does it feel. Also. Because I'm sure people said. Oh my God. Katara. Your story should be a book. Like. Yeah. And that's actually. Becoming a book. Yeah. People. Once they saw me on Survivor. I think the biggest. Yeah. Was. You need to write a book. You need to write a book. You need to write a book. Yeah. And. Like I said. Coming out of Survivor. It was just so many other things. I was like. I shared my story. In front of what. Eight million people or so. For the first time. Ever.

[01:11:02] In my life. I had never even said. You know. I was raised in a cult before. Or I was a child bride before. And now you have millions of people being like. You were a child bride. And now you're a civil rights lawyer. What? Like what? Tell us. How that. You know. How that happened. And. I really wanted. To give that to people. Because I knew I. Affected and supported. And touched so many people. But. I had to take a little time. For myself first. And I needed to go through that healing. So now. This feels like my.

[01:11:32] Rejuvenation. This is my. You know. What's that animal that. Headed on fire? Yeah. We were just talking about that. Like this is her Phoenix moment. Yeah. This is my Phoenix moment. I'm a numerology person. You know. This year. It was. You know. The year. It's a nine year. And that's a Phoenix number. Just look like. Being reborn. You know. You're about to start a new cycle. Yeah. So we've been going through. Heavy transition. Yeah. We have a lot of. And she's been by my side. The entire time. And as I'm. Now for the next. You know.

[01:12:02] Six months. My job. Is just writing. My book. And so. Wow. In North Carolina. Right. And. Also traveling. Yeah. Promoting the book. Doing more research. All of that. And so. I get to like. Bop around New York. Go around the world. And. She's going to be with me. Yeah. It's going to be cool. So beautiful. I am so happy for you too. Seriously. I feel like the main. Thing that inspired you. Most too. Was people were asking for it.

[01:12:32] During your. Speaking engagements. Yeah. I was speaking a lot of. Speaking engagements. When she got. Ready to. Basically. Yeah. They were always there. But when she got ready to. You spoke at Georgetown. At the woman's. Yeah. And. They. Would. I mean. There's footage of her. Being. Surrounded by women. Like. Please. Write your book. Leave a way. You know. Like. All this stuff. So we were just like. You're right. It was just kind of like. Well. All right. Well. Are you going to do that? Yeah. And we had a lot of talks. You know. Yeah.

[01:13:02] A lot of like. Well. This is what I want. How deep does it want. Who you want it to be. How much do people. Well. There's no going back. I just kind of like. Survivor. And it was kind of like. So. I. Began this speaking engagement business. And. It was like. Okay. One here. Two here. And then it kept snowballing. And it kept taking off. And every time. I would go to an event. I'd be like. Well. You know. Of course. Women are going to get it. You know. Women understand hardship. And it was like. Well. Of course. Queer people are going to get it. Then of course. Lawyers are going to get it. And it was like. Oh. There's all these groups. Of people.

[01:13:32] Who are connecting. And resonating. With my story. For one reason. Or another. And every time. I would speak. I would have all these people. Come up to me. Like. You affected me so much. And I thought. That was just a Survivor thing. Because. That's what my Survivor fan base. Would say. But now. It was people who had. Watch Survivor. Telling me that. And so. We were like. Yeah. I gotta put this into words. And like. You know. Distributed. So that I can be out there. And I'm so grateful. And. Yeah. We're so proud.

[01:14:02] It's coming out next year. Yeah. We need to. We'll keep an eye out. For where to pre-order the book. And all of that stuff. Of course. And your book tour. And all of it. Watch you guys. Yeah. Right. This is. It's just mind-blowing though. To think that like. We didn't. I mean. Pre-season 41. We didn't have the diversity initiative. With a barely. You know. They barely had. Any type of representation. Like. Any of us actually. On the show.

[01:14:32] And then. Now here we are. Nobody. Nobody. It's like nobody. Literally. None. None of it. And so. It's just like. It's mind-blowing. I'm. I'm thankful. For what we have. And I feel like people overlook the. Value of representation. And it's so simple. But like. The fact that like. Survivor could bring this. Like to bring you two together. Yeah. Yeah. Is the biggest gift possible. But then now. Yeah.

[01:14:59] Like your love is something that can be shared with so many other people. Because of Survivor. Because of this podcast. All of it. It is mind-blowing to me. Like having a meta moment. Of like. How did we get here? Like. Right. How did we end up here? But it's so beautiful. Oh. The same. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh. And I just. I just. Yeah. It's always so hard. For us to like be linear about it. Yeah. Because it's such a roundabout way. And then the. You know. The beginning is the show.

[01:15:29] Where we didn't even. I mean. We come from such opposite worlds. In all ways. In all ways. Even though we are. Representation of the same community. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Which is another perfect example of. You can't just have. One freaking person. From each demographic. Because actually. We're all different people. And. Right. Right. Right. Or just two. Right. And then three. Right. And we get the multiples. A whole season. Like just make it the whole. The whole.

[01:15:58] Oh. The whole. Clear. Clear. Going to be out in the public. You're. You're hard launching. Yeah. What are you most excited for? Or like. What. What's your vision. Now that y'all are public. Like. Like. What. What. What's the. What's the. What's. What's next for y'all? Oh. Oh. Yeah. Okay. You love talking about the parade.

[01:16:28] Oh. So. We. Like. We love to ask. We love to ask. So. I know. It's a video. But for me. We're going to be on the. Audible float. No way. Yeah. With Dax. Oh my God. That's so fun. Did you say with Dax? Oh my gosh. Well. Obviously Dax. One of my best friends. Yeah. They're very. Dax. Oh my. Wait. Yeah. Dax left. Kisora's other couple. I was. Really. I don't know why I'm really. So. We reached out to her.

[01:16:58] And then she was like. I'm like. Yeah. That would be. I've never been to a New York pride. So. Yeah. I mean. If New York is good for anything. No. The pride parade is incredible. Yeah. It's like. For a parade. So. I'm psyched about that. That's going to be like our first. Like. Public. Public outing. I guess you could say. Yes. And if I'm correct. That's the last weekend of June. Right. So. If you're listening to this. You can still come to New York. And see. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. When you're done.

[01:17:27] You can get over there. Sunday. Whatever that Sunday is. And we're. Honestly. The parade is. It's going to be incredible. Just being in New York for pride. Like. She doesn't know what New York and pride means. And I'm like. Oh. We're going to have a great time. So. But. I think. For me. It's just also like. I'm so excited. To just show us living in our truth. Mm. Like. We kind of both inadvertently. And I know me specifically. Yeah.

[01:17:56] Like taking a little bit of a social media break. To like. Recalibrate. Like. You know. Things done behind the scenes. Start writing a book. Get whatever. And it's like. I'm ready to come back. With a vengeance. I'm ready to come back. Full self. I'm ready to not be. You know. Hiding this. Or hiding that. I want to come back. My full. True self. And I think. Us being able to come back. Fully. Both of us out. Both of us proud. Both of us queer. Both of us together. And show. We can be totally different. Different types of people. Right.

[01:18:26] Like. Single mom. Civil rights. New York lawyer. And this like. Marine. Family based person. We came together. Yeah. Like. We can still write. Otis in the middle. Right. We can come together. And show all the different parts of ourselves. So really. We want to be everywhere. We want to be. Doing everything. Around everybody. Everywhere. So. We've been in a bubble. Oh my gosh. We've been in a bubble for ourselves. Yeah. Out of like. Just protection. People. We've seen. What. The media can be. Oh.

[01:18:56] We know. We didn't want that anywhere near us. Until we found. Had a solid foundation. Yeah. And had. Answers for questions. Like. Because we've just been. In our own world. It's like. Well. People are going to want to know. Yeah. Now we're ready. And now. We've kind of. Had time to. Talk. And have those. You know. Harder. Conversations. So. I feel like we're. Excited. I'm excited to be able to. Post to him at a restaurant. With. You know. Like. I love speaking and posting.

[01:19:26] I'm like. Soft launching. For anyone. I know it's coming. So I'm like. Okay. I can finally. You know. Do a little. But I've been keeping her. It'll be like. In my knee. Or like. Her voice is in the mouth. Or my. My hand's eating. You have some great content. Oh yeah. We have. It's Keith's a lot of things. Oh my gosh. Wow. We need to. Annoying. I need the spread. Give us the spread. I just want to say. It is not annoying. We love. It is.

[01:19:55] We love. We love. And I feel like. The other thing is. People who are listening to this. Are going to be over the moon. They're going to send you. So much love. And just in general. I feel like. The people who are still with you. Yeah. If you got it. Please share it with us. Because. Honestly. You can't get enough of it. Like. Yeah. And I think. We both learned that. From our own. Versions of our own journey. On Survivor. Yeah. And. Yeah. And live. Right. It's like. I need to be where the love is at. We just want.

[01:20:25] Yeah. I just want joy. I just want positivity. I'm tired of being. Scared. Or sad. Or stressed. Or anxious. Like. I literally. I'm a black. A queer woman. Living in 2025. In America. I got enough. Pain. Fear. Scare. Anxiety. All of that. Like. I just want joy. And peace. And beauty. So if you got love. To send. Send it. And we will send some. Right back. To you. I think it's so important. Like. Despite all of it. You are living. Like. That's the thing. And it's just.

[01:20:54] It's beautiful to see. It's beautiful to live on this planet. Where you're living. Doing it all. We'll see you on the audible float. At New York Pride. With Dash Cats. Shout out to Dash. I love Dash. I just texted the Dash. And I was like. We're talking about you. On the brightest spot. Right. I'm not going to call them anything. But. So we love. We love. I just. I really want to thank you both. So much for coming out here. And like. Showing us your love. Like. It really has. Brightened me up.

[01:21:24] So much. Talking to you both. And singing together. And I just know. It's going to mean so much. To so many people. And you know. We normally end these episodes on. Is there. Is there anything you'd like to say. To queer fans out there. Or. Or anyone out there listening. Wherever they are. In their journey. Or. You know. Searching for the beautiful. Queer love. That you all have. Like. Anything you want to. You want to send out. To the fans out there. I would say. Oh man. No pressure. I would just say. It takes time. You know.

[01:21:55] Like. I have. So many failures. Whether that's love. Whether that's. Career. And I. Don't be afraid to start over. You know. Like. I'm a big gardener. And sometimes. You just got to weed everything out. You know. And just. Start again. And that. It ends up being the biggest blossom. Biggest blooms. That you've ever had. Like. Like. I just. I'm not afraid of the pivot. And I feel like. In our community. You can't be afraid of the pivot. Even if it's closed doors.

[01:22:24] For your. Queerness. Or whatever. Just know there is a space for you. You know. There is a person for you. And. We are here for you. Yeah. Like. You belong with us. And. It's okay. Like. We didn't. We weren't the cool. You know. People in school maybe. But we are now. Look at us. I was like. Semi popular. But I was still weird. And. I'm a fan of the weirdos. And just know. We end up on Survivor. Okay. We end up being Marines. Yeah. We end up running the world.

[01:22:54] And it's awesome. So. Yeah. That's my love for them. Honestly. You said it amazing. Like. I echo everything you said. It's. I. I. Also. I'm a fellow weirdo. Like. Shout out to the weirdos. Shout out to the weirdos. And the quirkies. And the nerds. And the off-set. The queers. And the queers. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to be. Boring and normal anyway. Like. What even is that? I think it's heroes. Oh. No. No. I'm just.

[01:23:24] I just mean. When I say that. I don't even mean. Sexuality or orientation based. Yeah. I just mean. Like. There are so many moments. And I feel like. We all have that in life. But even if you just watch a glimpse of our individual stories. In our individual lives. Or just our time on Survivor. Like. You're going to get an out of hits. And that doesn't mean you're not down forever. Like. We get up. Ooh. We fighting. We shine. Regardless. Regardless. It'll be fine.

[01:23:54] And we love you. And we love you. And love really just makes it all better. Literally. Like. I can get very like. Oh my God. Everything is terrible. Let me just self-isolate. And forget everything. And then it's like. Oh wait. Love brings you back out. Love brings you back. And that's whether that's friendship. Family. Creative family. Chosen family. Or. You know. Yeah. Relationship. You have to see the way they're looking at each other. I know. I'm like.

[01:24:23] You can kiss if you want. Like. I'm not. No. I'm not going to hold back. I'm going to wait. I'll look away. You guys can kiss. Kiss. But. Listen. This was so beautiful and amazing. Thank you both. So, so, so, so, so much. Matt. Is there anything else I'm missing? You think? No. Just happy pride. Happy pride. Happy pride.

[01:24:53] Happy pride. I love you both so much. Seriously. Thank you. Love you so much. People that we even want to. Feel comfortable. Make a space. Thank you so much for listening. My name is Grace Leader. You can find me on social media. At Hi from Grace. Or at Go from Grace. And I'm Evie Gigoda. You can find me on Instagram. At Evie Jag. And on TikTok. With the account name. Evie from Survivor. And. I'm Matt Scott. You can find me.

[01:25:22] At Matt Scott GW. On all platforms. And. This. Is. The pride. Has spoken. This is. The pride. Pride has spoken. That was pretty good. Yeah. I'm Charissa. And my advice to all entrepreneurs start with Shopify. Shopify. Erfolgreich. Through.

[01:25:51] I use Shopify. Shopify. Shopify. It's already been done. And the platform makes me never problems. I have many problems. But the platform is never one of them. I have the feeling that Shopify. Shopify. Your platform. Kontinuierlich optimieren. Alles ist super einfach integrier und verlinkbar. Und die Zeit und das Geld, das ich dadurch spare, kann ich anderweitig investieren. Vor allem in Wachstum. Jetzt kostenlos testen auf Shopify.de. Ich bin Charissa und meine Empfehlung an alle Entrepreneure startet mit Shopify erfolgreich durch.

[01:26:20] Ich verwende Shopify schon seit dem ersten Tag und die Plattform macht mir nie Probleme. Ich habe viele Probleme, aber die Plattform ist nie eins davon. Ich habe das Gefühl, dass Shopify ihre Plattform kontinuierlich optimiert. Alles ist super einfach integrier und verlinkbar. Und die Zeit und das Geld, das ich dadurch spare, kann ich anderweitig investieren. Vor allem in Wachstum. Jetzt kostenlos testen auf Shopify.de.