Talking with T-Bird: Will Wahl

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: MTV's official Challenge Podcast is back for another season.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That's right, the Challenge is about to embark on its monumental 40th season, y'all,

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and we are coming along for the ride.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Woo-hoo! That would be me, Devyn Simone.

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's me, Dayvon Rogers.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're here to take you behind the scenes of The Challenge 40, Battle of the Eras.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Join us as we break down each episode, interview challengers,

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and take you behind the scenes of this iconic season.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to MTV's official Challenge Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, that's right.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Talking with T-Bird is back once again as we are catching up with that he was the youngest

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_04]: millennial once upon a time, and now he's here to talk with us.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Will Wahl joins us here with a woman who would run through a brick wall.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It's T-Bird Cooper.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_04]: T-Bird, how are you?

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, I'm good.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_09]: So Rob, isn't Will still the youngest person to have played?

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I know Julia played before him.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't know.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I have to look that up.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_09]: OK.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't you do a lot of research before?

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes your research gets a little fact-checked in the real time.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes it does.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I gotta do better.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if you could double check your research moving forward.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_09]: I think he might still be the youngest.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_09]: OK.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, last time out we had a lot of response.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_04]: People really loved our last interview with Sugar Kiper.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_09]: She was great.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_04]: That was a really fun one.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Sugar was lively and people were very excited about that one.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Sugar had a lot of energy.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_09]: She has a lot of energy and she's got a great survivor story.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I guess most people have pretty good survivor stories, but with her playing twice

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_09]: and everything that happened, how well she did the first time and going in the second time.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I think, Rob, maybe we might mention this a time or two, but

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_09]: I think even Lexa said, playing the second time is sometimes not all it's cracked up to be.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe you can talk about that, Rob, but it makes sense.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_09]: It makes sense though, really, that you've got all these expectations,

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_09]: especially as well as she did the first time.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_09]: But anyway, Sugar was great.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_09]: If you haven't listened to her, you're going to really enjoy her.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm being told in my ear that Will Wall is still the youngest player by birth date.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_04]: By his age on the show.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I thought he might be.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so good.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_09]: There's some information I've got correct.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Good to know.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:03:29] Okay.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_09]: We're winding down on our talking with T-Birds.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_09]: We only have a couple more, at least maybe a couple more this season.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but we're closing in on less than a month to go till Survivor 40 several, T-Bird.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_09]: I know, 40 several.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm looking forward to it.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, are they back yet from this last when they finished?

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I believe so.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_04]: T-Bird, we got Will standing by.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You ready?

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Let's do this.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, T-Bird, take it away.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Our guest today from Long Valley, New Jersey played on season 33,

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Survivor Millennials vs. Gen X.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_09]: It was an all-star cast.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Don't let his amazing deep, mature voice mislead you.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_09]: His gameplay and strategy were thought out in describing himself as cunning and adaptable.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_09]: He was the youngest player to ever compete, and unlike the player just a season before his

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_09]: that lied about their age, his strategy going in was not to lie about his life outside the game,

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_09]: including his age, but to quote, lie every chance I get inside the game, end quote.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_09]: The first season he had ever watched was Redemption Island.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_09]: He first applied not expecting to be cast.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_09]: He just wanted to get his name out there.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_09]: He figured he'd be ready by age 22, but God had other plans for this young Christian man who said,

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_09]: quote, I will use religion and Christianity to help build bonds with people, end quote.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_09]: He was in high school in his senior year and had only a month of school left.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_09]: He had the full support of his dad.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_09]: His mom, well, would be a hard sell.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_09]: She was nervous in wanting him to finish college first.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Once she was on board, he had to approach his principal and guidance counselor.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_09]: They were supportive.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_09]: He lacked English and gym to graduate, but it was decided a month and a half of survivor

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_09]: was equivalent to high school gym.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_09]: To prepare, he took swimming lessons, worked out,

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_09]: it added a layer of fat by eating lots of carbs and four meals a day.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_09]: His game plan, quote, was to have no plans, to be adaptable, to be open to ideas and see

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_09]: how people are going to react, then formulate a strategy as the game progresses, end quote.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_09]: He said he was playing from the bottom.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_09]: He won the first individual immunity challenge.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_09]: When it rains, it pours, lasting over an hour and a half, which he said he had practiced

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_09]: at home and couldn't make it five minutes.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_09]: He would make it to day 34 out of 39 days.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_09]: He said he played too aggressively and in fear, quote, afraid on being the first one

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_09]: voted off, afraid he wouldn't make the merge, afraid of missing loved ones visit, end quote.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_09]: And he was very arrogant, very confident.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Playing the game was a very humbling experience, he said.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_09]: His advice, if you play, quote, be confident in the moves that you make, but don't cross

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_09]: the line from confidence to arrogance.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_09]: He went on to graduate from high school, graduating from Ohio State University with a bachelor's

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_09]: degree in public affairs and political science, then attended Wake Forest University School

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_09]: of Law.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_09]: 2023 would prove a banner year.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_09]: He received his Juris Doctor from Wake Forest University School of Law, became a U.S. Navy

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_09]: JAG officer and married beautiful Allison, the love of his life.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_09]: I introduce to you the kid who once wanted nothing more than to be accepted and respected,

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_09]: the very impressive Will Wall.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Will, how are you?

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_08]: Great.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_08]: That was an amazing introduction.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_08]: I always love your introductions, T-Bird.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_08]: Every time I hear them on this podcast, they're always so thoughtful and kind.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_08]: So thank you for that.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_08]: That was great.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, yes.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you so much for being with us.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm just wondering, you built quite a resume at 26.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_09]: 26!

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't say resume!

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Will started that on Survivor, some people say.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_08]: That's the big debate.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_08]: First Survivor resume, now I'm going to work on the real life resume.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_04]: This is a real resume.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Have you heard that, Will?

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_04]: That a lot of people say that you really popularized the term Survivor resume.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_08]: I did hear that.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_08]: I think it was on this podcast, some of the guests talking about that.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_08]: And I'll take that.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_08]: I love the term Survivor resume.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_08]: I think it really did shape my perspective of the game because I was always thinking,

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_08]: how do I sell myself, especially being so young?

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_08]: So I was always thinking about how to get another point on that resume to build up my

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_08]: final three speech.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_08]: Unfortunately, never got to give it.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, as T-Bird said, what an accomplished resume you've done outside Survivor.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_04]: This is so fun that you played Survivor as a young person.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like I always like to see what people that we came to know on the show

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_04]: have been up to since it's been largely away from the Survivor public eye.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So in addition to everything that T-Bird laid out, what else is new with you?

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_08]: So after I graduated from law school, ended up taking the bar exam, going on a little

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_08]: trip around Europe, backpacking with some friends.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_08]: That was amazing.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_08]: That was a life changing experience.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_08]: And then got married and moved to Washington DC.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Which is an amazing city.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_08]: If anybody's never been to DC, all those Smithsonian museums, they're all what they're hyped up

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_08]: to be.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, it's been a great opportunity.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Sweel.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_09]: So I want to ask you about your beautiful wife, Allison, which Rob, I just learned she's an

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_09]: attorney as well.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_04]: OK.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_09]: They're both overachievers.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Love it.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Where did you meet her?

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And did she know about you and Survivor when you first met her?

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_08]: So I met her in law school and she had heard through the grapevine that I was on Survivor,

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_08]: but she was never like a big fan before anything like that.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_08]: So she just got to know me as me, which I really appreciated and liked.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, every little bit here and there.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_08]: I know her family's watched the show now.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_08]: They never watched it before.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_08]: So it's slowly getting her to become a Survivor fan.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you keep up with the show, Will?

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_08]: I haven't recently.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_08]: Just with life, it's been tough.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_08]: But I know with 50 around the corner, that's going to change real soon.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to have to watch that because, I mean, all these people coming back, all these

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_08]: people that I watched growing up, it's going to drag me back in.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's such an interesting story to come into Survivor and play in high school.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure how many people can claim that, but it's just so interesting to me.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I could not imagine going from high school to being on Survivor.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Could you talk a little bit about what that was like for you to go from one day you're in class

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_04]: and then next day you're on national television playing Survivor?

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_08]: It was one of the most exciting things and also one of the most terrifying things.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_08]: I was freaking out on the flight over there and I was trying to hold it together,

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_08]: trying to play a poker face because I wanted to seem like, okay, I'm ready for this.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_08]: But it is scary, right?

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_08]: I knew that everybody out there was going to be a lot older than me.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_08]: But I also was just so incredibly excited for the opportunity,

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_08]: the ability to play the game that I loved.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_08]: I was a super fan, obsessed with the game, watched every season, knew all these different players.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_08]: And I was just so excited to live the game that I had watched from the couch for so long.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_08]: But it certainly was a mix of emotions.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Will, so I read that you first started with Redemption Island.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_09]: And did you go back and watch the others before you played the other seasons?

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, when I was in the interview process in the hotel,

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_08]: I was watching a few of the last seasons I hadn't seen, like season 21 at Nicaragua.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I was watching that, just trying to get every little piece of information I could.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_08]: I was taking notes on what strategies worked well for people.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_08]: I was a student at the time, right?

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_08]: So I knew how to do it.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_08]: I took notes and I studied up to try to prepare.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Will, what did you tell them though that made them decide to say,

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_04]: okay, let's take a chance on...

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_04]: You were what, 17 or you were 18 when you played?

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I was 18.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_04]: 18.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_04]: To take a chance on...

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Because so many people apply.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_04]: What were you telling them that got them so excited about you?

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_08]: I was really hyping up the age difference and the fact that I was this young guy

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_08]: who wanted to go against these older people and show them who's boss.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_08]: I had no idea it was Millennials versus Gen X, but when I found out...

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even think you're a Millennial, are you?

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm right on the cusp of Millennial Gen Z.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't feel like...

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_04]: You're like the world's oldest Gen Z, right?

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Pretty much.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I don't necessarily feel like I'm in either category,

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_08]: but I kind of just adopted Millennial because I was on Survivor Millennials Gen X.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, I really think I'm probably the very beginning of Gen Z.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Will, I mean, Rob, I think you're going to find this to be really kind of fun.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I read or somehow found out that Will got interested in Survivor

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_09]: from another Survivor player that we've talked to that is crazy, crazy fun one.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_04]: You got interested in Survivor from meeting another Survivor alumni?

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, where did you grow up, Will?

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Jersey, you said, right?

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm trying to think of...

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Am I close?

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, no.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Who is it?

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_04]: You go ahead, T-Bird.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Taina Shear.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Taina!

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Timber Tina.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Timber Tina!

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_04]: One of my favorite guests.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_04]: How did you run into Timber Tina?

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_08]: So I used to vacation up in Maine all the time and she has the Timber Tina...

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_08]: And I went to the show and she talked about her Survivor experience and it was funny.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_08]: She recommended being one of the first ones voted out so you get paid,

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_08]: a whole vacation paid for.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't follow that advice, but I really did.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_08]: I became very interested and I was too young.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_08]: My parents wouldn't let me watch the show then, but...

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But did you go see her because you knew she was on Survivor or you went to go to her thing

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and she said, hey, watch Survivor?

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_08]: We just stumbled upon her show.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it was the latter.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_08]: She just said, go watch Survivor.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_08]: It's a fun show.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_04]: The origin story.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's a great story.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, Will, I think I read too that you stepped away from Survivor

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_09]: just for your mental health and that it took you like a year and a half to kind of come back down

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_09]: to whatever normal was, which I think is very normal for most of us.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_08]: It was not even being out there on the show so much as knowing that millions of people

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_08]: are watching you every week.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_08]: Meeting an 18-year-old that...

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Especially in college too.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_08]: I went from a small town to being in a major city and everybody would recognize me.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_08]: I couldn't go outside without people recognizing who I was.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_08]: And that was a little overwhelming for this little introvert from a small town

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_08]: outside of New York there.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_08]: So it was a little overwhelming and I needed to kind of take a step back.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_08]: But it really was...

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_08]: And looking back now, it was just a fantastic experience.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_08]: I recommend everybody who plays to take a little step back, but then

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_08]: try to get back into it because doing a lot of introspection,

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_08]: it really did change my life for the better.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you talk a little bit about what was the part that was hard that you were needing to deal with?

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_08]: It was a little bit of, for me, the edit.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_08]: I was hoping that I would be this larger-than-life character and that I'd be the star of the show.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_08]: I think everybody wants that.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_08]: And especially as an 18-year-old, you build up this story in your mind.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_08]: But looking back, I think my edit was fair.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_08]: I think how they portrayed me was how I was as an 18-year-old.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_08]: And as the years go on, I'm actually really happy with the edit I got

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_08]: because it showed exactly who I was at that time and how I played the game.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_08]: I play a lot differently now, but at the time, that was me.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_08]: That was who I was.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_09]: And Will, you went into the game, I believe, wanting them to know your age

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_09]: because even Jeff mentioned it, but I think that he had checked with you

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_09]: prior to make sure you were okay with them knowing that.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_09]: After that happened, knowing how the Gen Xers weren't big on wanting to give an 18-year-old

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_09]: a million dollars, do you regret them knowing your age?

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Would you wish you had changed that?

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think I would have been able to hide it.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_08]: I definitely looked the youngest out there.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's why I kind of leaned into it.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_04]: He's got the voice, Rob.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_04]: He's got the voice.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but they can see it.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_04]: What is he going to wear?

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_04]: The buff over his face the whole time?

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's tall too.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, maybe if he could have just figured out a way to stand very far away from everybody.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_08]: That would probably be my best bet.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, buff over the face, stand far away.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Or maybe sleep all day and only come out at night.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I probably would be going out early for the social aspect of it.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's tough.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, it is.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_08]: It was tough.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_08]: So I leaned into it and I just, I'm not the best liar either.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_08]: I really am terrible at lying.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_08]: So I was like, I'm just gonna say who I am.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm gonna, everything outside the game, I'm gonna be open and honest with.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm gonna try my best to, you know, be able to navigate inside the game strategically.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_08]: But with the age, I just decided to lean into it.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_08]: I have a little bit of fun with it.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_08]: And that was that.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_04]: But I do think that, you know, your participation in Millennials versus Gen X,

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that it's a very important season for the show.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's like a really, a season that changes the course of survivor history when

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_04]: we take a look at it from like a broader view.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And not to say you specifically, Will, but that the cast of younger people and especially

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_04]: younger people who love Survivor.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_04]: It's the first season that's in Fiji.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It's the first season that Jeff really comes away saying like, hey, if it comes down to

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_04]: like hanging out with the people my age or they're hanging out with, I want to hang out

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_04]: with these people.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And I do think that we see this infusion, especially in the new era of it's a lot of

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_04]: young people who know the show especially well, who are sort of like inspiring.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it really is.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_08]: And even though I haven't watched newer seasons, I do look up the cast and try to follow along

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_08]: on Reddit a little bit.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_08]: So I've seen a lot of younger players play and a lot of them do really well.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_08]: And it is inspiring.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_08]: And I do love the fact that Millennials Gen X sort of paved the way for that with our

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Millennial Tribe.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_08]: It was a lot of fun playing with a lot of young people in the beginning and the Millennial

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Tribe.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_08]: We were sometimes disorganized, but we love the game.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_08]: And that really, I think, shined on television.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think with those younger super fans, they really had that passion.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Will, and with the idols, which is this is a little unusual.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Y'all used to go on hunts with the whole group looking for idols, right?

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_08]: We did that a few times.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_08]: I think that was really because nobody trusted each other.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_08]: So we all went as a big group so that we would all get to see who actually found the idol.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_08]: But it's not the best strategy overall, I think.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's why when Jay and I found it, Jay pulled me aside.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_08]: It was like, hey, just you and I, let's go look for it.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_08]: And that, I think, is a much better strategy.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_08]: It was just a lack of trust, especially on the early days of the Millennial Tribe.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_08]: There was so much drama, so much back and forth.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_08]: It was not enough that could even be shown in the 45 minute episodes.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_08]: But there were times where alliances were imploding and everything was in shuffle.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_08]: It was, yeah, everything was shaky in those early days.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And you mentioned Jay.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think, did you say that you wished that you had trusted him more?

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_09]: I think your moves wish you had trusted him more because he seemed to really trust you the whole time.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_08]: I do wish I trusted Jay more.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_08]: I wish I trusted Jay more and I wish I trusted Zeke a little bit more as well.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_08]: I know Zeke didn't want me anywhere towards the end,

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_08]: but I don't think he was coming for me nearly as early as I was coming for him.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_08]: So I think if I really leaned into those two who worked really hard to build

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_08]: allegiance with me and build a nice relationship with me out there,

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_08]: I think we all could have made it a little bit further.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_08]: I think I jumped the gun a little bit.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_08]: I got a little bit too excited and I wanted another point on my resume.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: MTV's official Challenge podcast is back for another season.

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[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, another thing that you get credited for a lot when you come up in modern conversation of

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Survivor is that the idea of the Will Wall Pendulum strategy is still discussed.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I would just love to know from you just how much was that something that you really were going for?

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_04]: How was it different than what we saw on the show?

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And do you like that?

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_08]: It was fully my strategy.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_08]: I wasn't just saying it to say it.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_08]: It was what was going to be my final three speech talking about how I swung from alliance to alliance.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_08]: And it even dated back from the very beginning where Michaela and I were kind of the swing votes

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_08]: between the two alliances on the Millennial Tribe.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_08]: So I always felt like I was in the middle and I wanted to swing back and forth.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_08]: I think people can do it.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_08]: I think Tony Vlachos kind of did a little bit of that.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_08]: It certainly can be effective.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_08]: An 18-year-old doing it is a lot harder than somebody who has the social capital to be able

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_08]: to pull it off.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_08]: But I think it's a great strategy.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_08]: And if people have that social capital, it can be very effective because you get to try to choose

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_08]: who goes to the end with you a little bit more.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_08]: You have a little bit more agency when you're the one controlling all those votes as the swing.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_08]: But I think it can get kind of dicey for people who don't have that.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think the real question about it is how do you keep yourself important enough or

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_04]: valued enough by both of the groups that the groups don't look at you as an unreliable number?

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that happened on your season, right, Rob, where the swing vote got voted out and...

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the person felt like...

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And we've seen this also in Survivor Kageyan with Sarah.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Also, the person is like, hey, I have all the power here.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes that person's like, well, maybe you're overplaying your hand.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think I overplayed my hand a little bit.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's where it went from being effective to very ineffective quickly.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that's what it was at all.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I think it's hard for one person to do it and do it for a long time.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But I do think that maybe a duo could do it where it's not that you can't just necessarily

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_04]: now turn and get this one person out.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like that if there is a block that's, OK, we're here, we're here, we're here,

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and Tony always had Wu with him.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that maybe if you have a duo that's potentially doing the pendulum,

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_04]: maybe there could be a little bit more long-term viability in that.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's a really good point.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, if I was working with maybe Brett or Sunday or maybe a combination of the three

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_08]: of us, I think we could have really effectively done that a lot better.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, that's a very good point.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Doing it just solo, that's tricky.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_09]: If you could have gotten Michaela off the seashell plan,

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_09]: maybe you could have brought her in to your pendulum strategy.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_08]: I have so many regrets about that vote.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_08]: I really wish that we just worked with Michaela.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_08]: She had a fantastic plan going all the way through.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think really what it came down to was Jay and I were just bored out there.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_08]: We were antsy.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_08]: I think Stephen Fischbach even said that in the podcast.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_08]: We were there so many days and hadn't seen a lot of action.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_08]: So we wanted to make a big move.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was just such a bad move.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Michaela was really a great, loyal person for us.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_08]: And she was never going to betray us or at least not anytime soon.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_08]: So I have a lot of regrets about that vote.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_08]: That's probably one of my biggest regrets about my game.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_08]: I wish we went further.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_04]: So who were you voting for that night to have gone home?

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Was it Brett?

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Or if you did not vote out Michaela?

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_04]: It was Brett.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_08]: And Brett was a great ally later down the road for me as well.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_08]: But I just think Michaela would have always had our backs.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think voting out Michaela, Hannah told me after,

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_08]: really ostracized us from the rest of the millennials.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Whereas maybe the millennials could have been united a little bit longer going into the merge.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_08]: And Michaela still been there.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But it was a great TV moment.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yes.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Probably one of the biggest moments of the season.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_09]: What can a Gen Xer learn from a millennial?

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Basically, probably nothing.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll see.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Here is your old tribe mate, Brett.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, everyone.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: How you doing?

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Will.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Glad to see you, buddy.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Been a long time, my friend.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Been a long time.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: T-Bird hit me up and said that her and Rob are going to have you on the podcast.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So I just had to send in a video message.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, look at you.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_02]: My God, look what you've done.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I think you got married.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You've become a JAG officer.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, congratulations.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: That's so awesome.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for your service.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: That's just great.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, thank God you're like a JAG officer.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're a lawyer.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you went to law school.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You graduated, became a JAG lawyer, which is fantastic.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It's better than being a scumbag defense attorney like Chris Hammond.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So I appreciate that.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm proud of you, bud.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of my favorite stories about Will was when we went out.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I met him for the first time on Ekeboola.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And we all, it was six of us out there.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, we know me and Sunday knew each other, but we didn't know the other guy.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was really cool to kind of get some fresh faces to talk to after a couple weeks with the

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Gen X tribe.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought to myself, this 18 year old kid, what's he going to teach me?

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: He's the same age as my nieces and my nephews.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But man, I'll tell you, we're sitting around the fire one night.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Will, I know you remember this.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about, everyone's talking about food.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You're starving out there.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing to eat.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So he's sitting around there talking about food.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And I go, so I think we said, what's the one thing you'll, when you get back to civilization,

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_02]: what's the one meal you're going to have?

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we went around the fire.

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think I said steaks.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Sunday might've said steaks.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I think Hannah said sushi.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But everyone had something different.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And we get to Will and Will said, I'm gonna go get a big tub of peanut butter.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to get some chocolate bars.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to dip the chocolate bar in the peanut butter.

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to eat it.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I literally looked at him and I'm starving.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I looked at him and I said, that sounds so good.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think Will and I literally for the next two days,

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that's all we talked about was chocolate dipping, chocolate bars in peanut butter.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So when I got back to Boston, a couple nights later, I went out to Whole Foods.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't get any of that skippy shit or any of that stuff.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I got some real, I went to Whole Foods, ground up my own fresh peanut butter.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And I went and got the Cadbury milk chocolate bars.

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Not the little ones.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I got the 360 gram ones.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And I sat in front of my TV for two hours and I ate.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I dipped my Cadbury chocolate into the fresh peanut butter.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was so good.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And Will, you were so right.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I never thought that Will would teach me anything out there.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But he taught me what he taught.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: He gave me one of the best snacks that I still eat today.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So thanks, buddy.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Listen, congrats on getting married and all that.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Miss you.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get together soon, buddy.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Take care.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Rob.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Rob.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone misses me.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm still here.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: T-Bird, love you.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Talk to you soon.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Bye, guys.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_08]: The chocolate and peanut butter thing.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_08]: That was a big conversation.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Will, you invented chocolate and peanut butter together?

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Incredible.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_08]: I can't take credit for that.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_08]: But I love it.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_08]: His mind, T-Bird.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_08]: That was one of the first things I had when I was voted off.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Just dip Oreos in peanut butter or chocolate in peanut butter.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_08]: It's so good.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_08]: So I hear.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_08]: It was.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was a big one.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_09]: So Will and Rob, that happens, I guess, at every season where you're just sitting around

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_09]: talking about food.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think I remember production saying, cut it with all the food stuff.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Because it gets probably, but you can't help it.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_09]: It just happens.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_08]: That's interesting that they wouldn't let you talk about food out there.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_08]: For us, they said no songs or anything that are copyrighted.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_08]: But they let us talk about food as much as we wanted to.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I don't know that they said don't talk about it.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, I think it went on for quite some time.

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they'll let you go for a little bit and then it's like, all right, come on,

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_04]: let's get to something else, people.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Come on.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's fair.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_04]: That is fair.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_09]: So Will, you and I, Rob, tell me, tell the truth here.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Have I ever said that anybody reminds them of me that we've talked to?

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Not that I can recall, but I'm interested to see where this is going to go.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Will, this is so cool.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_09]: There are quite a few similarities between the two of us.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_09]: You played at 18 and I played at, well, 40.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_09]: A couple of things.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Since coming back, I've never watched any of Africa.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I've never watched it.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I just never wanted to.

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think I read that you had watched maybe bits and pieces, but that you hadn't watched

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_09]: your whole season.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Is that true?

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's true.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's one thing.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_09]: That's one thing.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_09]: OK, we both lasted the longest having no votes against us.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_07]: OK.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I think when I went out, I never had a vote.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Then I got four votes and then you got, I guess, whatever, six votes.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Another thing.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_09]: OK, and let's see another one, our game plan.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_09]: When I went in front of CBS and they said, what's your plan?

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_09]: I said, what I said was my plan is I have no plan.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to watch it and see how it plays out.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly what you did.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly what you did.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And then the other thing, when it rains, it pours.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_09]: That was our challenge.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And they actually changed it up for y'all and y'all had both arms up where we just had

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_09]: the one arm up.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's four things.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_09]: That's very awesome.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_04]: That's it.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_04]: That's it.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing else in common?

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, there may be, but four things, you know, that's kind of a lot.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_09]: A lot.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_09]: We were voted out about the same exact time and, you know, to be the age difference, male,

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_09]: female, and our age difference to have so many similarities is I thought was really

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_09]: neat as I was learning about you.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and that challenge, if it rains, it pours, that is a tough one.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_08]: It really kind of wears you down once you hit that hour mark.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_09]: What were you thinking about?

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you remember what you were thinking about when you were doing it other than you needed

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_09]: to win?

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, I kept thinking about the fact that I had a hand in voting out several people pre

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_08]: emerge.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_08]: We hadn't found out that we were on the jury yet and I was afraid that I'd be voted out.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Would it make the jury and would have to face all those people that I had a hand in voting

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_08]: out?

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_08]: So that was really a big motivator for me to keep pushing on.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_09]: And you lost 20 pounds out there.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_08]: And I didn't have 20 pounds to lose.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_09]: I know.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Because like Rob said, you were tall, but you probably didn't.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, that's a lot of weight, 20 pounds.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_09]: How long did it take you to put it back on?

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_08]: It actually didn't take long at all.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_08]: I feel like after a few weeks...

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, enough chocolate bars and peanut butter.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_04]: That'll do the trick.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, who do you keep up with from your season?

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_08]: So for a long time, I kept up with Hannah and just with this last year, it's been kind of

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_08]: a whirlwind.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_08]: So the Hannah and I had kept in constant contact and then I have everybody on Facebook.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_08]: We wish each other happy birthdays and things like that.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_08]: But I really need to maybe go and have a little reunion with everybody.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_08]: It's been way too long.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_08]: And I mean, all these people had kind of as Brett was saying, like we had an impact on

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_08]: each other out there and we really did leave a lasting memory.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_08]: So I need to reconnect.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, famously after the season was over, I remember as an outsider being like, wow, this

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_04]: cast is hanging out all the time.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And I remember everybody went to Vegas after.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you go?

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Were you invited to go to Vegas after the season was over?

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_08]: I was, but as someone who was under 21, I stepped back.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_08]: I did not go with them.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_08]: I stayed with family.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_08]: We ended up meeting up with other family out there.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_08]: That's why I'm not in any of the pictures, but it seemed like a very fun connection.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, all right.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_04]: But you did end up getting there?

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, my cousin lives out there.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_08]: So I was out there.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_04]: You stayed with your cousin and then got to see everybody.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, I didn't really meet up with too many people.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, you were just in Vegas at the same time as them?

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_08]: I believe it was at the same time.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, something like that.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_08]: But I did not participate in any of the shenanigans.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Robbie mentioned his age and him not being 21 to go to Vegas.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Now might be a good time to put the other little clip in.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, let's see what another familiar face has to say.

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_04]: It's David Wright.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Will, we've got to vote out Adam.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, what?

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_03]: That's better.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, Will, it's David Wright.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_03]: T-Bird asked me if I wanted to say hi, and I didn't hesitate to say yes.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just sitting on my cat here with my cat in sunny Sherman Oaks, California.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And happy birthday again.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope jagging is going well.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that something?

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Give me a shout next time you're in L.A.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll grab drinks.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Beer for me, soft drinks for you.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, you're probably sick of that joke.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And you probably were eight years ago.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I hope all is well in your world, Will.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And take care, man.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye bye.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, does David Wright just have his survivor uniform on the ready?

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Like Superman?

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_08]: That's what I was thinking.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_08]: It kind of brought me back a little bit.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_08]: I was like, oh wow, we're back on the island.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Does David talk that fast?

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't know.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, does he talk that fast normally?

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I hadn't met him like in real life, even though I feel like I know him.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_08]: It depends on the moment.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, when he gets excited or passionate about something, absolutely.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Did David Wright say he's on the catio also?

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I think he said.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, patio with the cat, I guess.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, OK.

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_09]: That is cool.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_09]: David, you've got to love him.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_09]: He's smart.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_09]: He's always got, you know.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_09]: All right, so Will, let me ask you about Jeff Probst.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_09]: So you watched all, I mean, I think we all have things built up in our mind about Probst

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_09]: before we actually get the opportunity.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I remember being really excited just to see him once we got out there.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_09]: How do you think he has progressed from when you first watched him?

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_09]: In Borneo, up to your season?

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think by the time that I saw him on my season, he was really the leader of the show.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_08]: And I know he wasn't always like the producer.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_08]: But by the time he got there, he was a well-oiled machine.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_08]: He was leading it.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_08]: I felt like he genuinely really cared about all of us and how we were doing.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure he did throughout every season.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_08]: But that was something that really struck me was just how great of a leader he was for

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_08]: the whole crew and for us as a cast.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_08]: He really, during tribal councils, led us to the proper places.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_08]: He always kind of controlled the flow of the conversation.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm sure that takes a lot of practice when you have a lot of different big personalities

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_08]: out there.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_08]: He always knew exactly how to drive the conversation to where it needed to go.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Robby, you want to ask him the question?

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_09]: You want me to?

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_04]: It's your question, T-Bird.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, what's one word that you would use to describe Jeff Probst?

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_08]: Passionate.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_08]: Survivor is his baby.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_08]: He loves it.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_08]: And he loves to share Survivor.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_08]: But you got to have that same passion and that same respect for the show.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_08]: The only time I've ever seen Jeff get upset is when people don't have the respect for

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_08]: Survivor and what it is.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_08]: But so long as you have that respect and that love, he loves to share it.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you think once he decides to retire, who do you think could step into his shoes and

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_09]: keep it going?

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_08]: That is so tough.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_08]: Rob, maybe.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if that's a job that you would want.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Austin Robb?

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my God.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_04]: No, you Robb.

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if...

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Will, thank you.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think they're going to go in a different direction.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I think if and when Jeff wants to do it, they could do better.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_04]: They'd be slumming it.

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_08]: I just feel like it's so hard to replace Jeff.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_08]: He's such a big personality and I don't even know where to begin with that.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Would you get a former player or would you try to get somebody else, maybe go outside

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_08]: of the Survivor community?

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not sure.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't really know what the right answer is for that.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Will, you were involved in a huge moment in Survivor history of the big rock draw at 10.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_04]: You were deadlocked.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like so much has been talked about this, but from your perspective, what was

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_04]: that like to go through that moment?

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_08]: That was absolutely terrifying.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_08]: But also in a weird way, I felt this piece of calm.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_08]: After all the votes had been cast and I knew we were going to rocks, everything was out

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_08]: of my hands.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_08]: It was all luck.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_08]: It was all fate.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was this weird, terrifying, but also this weird sense of calm.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_08]: I was very close to flipping my vote.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_08]: Very, very close to flipping the other way.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_08]: But reading the reactions of the room, I thought somebody else was going to.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_08]: And when that didn't happen, I was like, oh no.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_08]: But eventually I realized it's just out of my hands.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_08]: I can't control it anymore.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_04]: After going through that experience, what should a person do in that spot, especially

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_04]: somebody who is considering flipping in that moment?

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I would try to read the body language as best you could, perhaps better than I did

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_08]: because I misread it.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_08]: But try to see if you think anyone else is going to flip.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Try to do the best convincing you can to get somebody else to flip.

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_08]: But if you feel like you need to be the one to do it, then go ahead and do it.

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Because at the end of the day, you got to protect yourself out there.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_08]: One person wins at the end.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_08]: So do what you can to try to make it to the next vote.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you like to see The Rock happen out there?

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it hasn't happened since these guys did it.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's so interesting over the course of history of the show where

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_04]: in Survivor Marquesas, Pascal draws The Rock.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a big moment and it scared people enough so that nobody else, the specter of

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to lose the game on The Rock ends up being something that keeps people

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_04]: at it.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_04]: It was such a deterrent of The Rock.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And then it doesn't happen again until Tyson in Survivor Blood vs.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Water.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Tyson gets through it and he wins the season.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that then there's like a little bit of like, oh, see, like Tyson did it and

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_04]: it worked out great for Tyson.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't really look at it from Katie's perspective of how she lost the game.

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that maybe the idea of like, oh, Tyson did it and he won ends up being like,

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_04]: well, now it's on the table of, sure, let's go to rocks.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's all like work for Tyson.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_04]: That's a fine thing.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think that it was then just so brutal what happens to Jessica that I think it's

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_04]: gone back to being enough of a deterrent of like, hey, I'm not going out like that.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to lose the game on The Rock.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_04]: That it's never happened since then.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_08]: I forgot if this made the air or not, but Adam did say to Jessica that in another world,

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_08]: their roles are flipped where Jessica makes it to the final three and wins the game.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_08]: And I can really see that because Adam and Jessica were in a very similar position.

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_08]: So it really was brutal.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_08]: It was brutal being there in person, seeing it happen to her because she's a very nice

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_08]: person.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_08]: She played such a great game.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_08]: And to be cut off like that, that was brutal.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And I wonder, you know, and now we have smaller tribes.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that like the show, I think is maybe hoping like we've gotten where

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_04]: that the rock draw almost happened in Survivor 42.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they're always hoping that like what this person lost their vote.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And then they're hoping for this scenario to pop up where it happens again.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_04]: I just think that the players, you know, want to avoid that.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_08]: And it would make sense, too, because you work so hard to get out there and then you

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_08]: play this very tough game and you don't want to lose that agency and that power to

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_08]: be able to cast your vote and determine who goes out.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_08]: You don't want to leave it to chance.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_08]: So it makes a lot of sense that players would be very adverse to that kind of scenario.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Will, you voted for Adam at the end.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think your explanation was you voted for him out of respect,

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_09]: even though he affected your game.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_09]: And I thought, what a mature, a very mature thing to do and to say that you gave him your

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_09]: vote because he played such a great game.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_09]: I thought that was very cool.

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, he deserved it.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_08]: And I remember sitting, I think it was maybe final five or final six when I was on the

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_08]: jury perspective and I was looking at all these players and I'm like, who's going to

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_08]: win this game?

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_08]: And it just dawned on me.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_08]: I see Adam sitting there and I'm like, nobody's looking at Adam.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Nobody's trying to go after him.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_08]: Nobody's thinking of him as a big threat.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_08]: And I thought in that moment, I'm like, I think he might just pull this off.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_08]: And he played such a fantastic game.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_08]: And watching him play was fantastic because he had such great rapport building with everybody.

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_08]: His strategy of only lying to people once, he would only ever tell a lie one time so that

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_08]: that way you never really knew whether he was lying.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_08]: You never picked up on his tell.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_08]: I thought that was genius.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_08]: He really just threw and threw, had the social game on lock.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you watch when Adam came back for winners at war?

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_08]: I did.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_08]: I wish that podium wasn't idle.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I think he played a great game.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_08]: That was a tough season.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think all those amazing players, but he did the best he could under the circumstances

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_08]: that he had.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_08]: And I loved watching him again.

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_08]: I loved watching the whole cast.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_08]: That was a great season.

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_09]: You stayed in touch with Adam?

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Adam and I, it's been a little while.

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_08]: He's another one that I got to reach back out to.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, him and I did stay in touch for a little while for a few years there.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Will, would you consider ever playing Survivor again?

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_08]: I can never say no.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_08]: If CBS gives the call, I have to at least consider it.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_08]: With everything falling into place, with life just being married.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_08]: But I actually would love to play with my wife.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if they're ever going to do a blood versus water season again, but that

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_08]: would be fun.

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_08]: I know 50's around the corner.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what that's going to be.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Make the pitch.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Why would they want you to be the new...

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Was John Cody also?

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, he's a doctor.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess maybe you two could be...

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_04]: They were in DC also.

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, for her, she's much more entertaining than me.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_08]: She is very vibrant and loud personality.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_08]: I think she would just pop on TV.

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_08]: She's done all these pageants and stuff like that.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_08]: She's used to the spotlight.

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_08]: So she's really good with that kind of stuff.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_08]: And also too, she's just such a bubbly and friendly personality.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_08]: I think she'd do great at the social game in terms of the challenges and everything like

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_08]: that and having to start on an island.

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_08]: She might not like that as much, but I think it would be a fun experience.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think she would really pop and be a fun person.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody likes that part.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, believe it or not, when I was 18, I kind of lived for it.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I was like, this is exciting.

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_08]: This is awesome.

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm actually out here starving and doing the whole survivor thing.

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, looking back on it, it was not great.

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_09]: So Will, what would be a good theme for 50?

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_08]: A good theme for 50?

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_08]: I know Legends has been thrown out a lot.

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_08]: I think 50 could be a good Legends season.

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_08]: You could get a second chance out there.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_08]: I've also heard a lot of fans say they want like pre-merge people, right?

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_08]: Like some of the big pre-merge personalities.

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know about for 50, but I think that would be an interesting

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_08]: returning player season as well.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_09]: I think I saw where you had told Dalton Ross that you'd love to see a season with no idols,

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_09]: no swaps.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_09]: What else did you say?

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_09]: No twist.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Just totally back to basics.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Back to basics, back to the 39 days.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_08]: I know that's not going to happen.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_08]: But it would be nice to have a season like that,

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_08]: especially with some new school players who are so used to idols

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_08]: and you don't tell them there's nothing out there.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_08]: So they're looking for these idols and they're not out there.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_08]: I think that would be kind of fun to see.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_09]: I also saw that, I don't know if this has changed since I've heard you say this,

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_09]: but that your favorite player was Brian Heideck.

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_08]: Brian Heideck.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, man.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_08]: He definitely was an interesting one.

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm trying to remember when I said that.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_08]: I must have been in high school watching Thailand just recently.

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_08]: I remember for a while saying Randy Bailey was the one.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_08]: I just love Randy.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_08]: But Brian Heideck was, yeah, that's an interesting answer.

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't even remember giving him that.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll say, very interesting answer.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_09]: But Rob, he did say he really respected Tony.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And you, Rob C.

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you mean Boston Rob, Will?

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_08]: No, no.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I love Survivor Amazon.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_08]: That was a great season.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you were old enough to watch it when it was on, Will.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_04]: My wife said my kids can't watch it.

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Will, so this could have changed too, but that your favorite season,

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, the cast is so phenomenal, was Panama.

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Because of the bottom seven or the top seven.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_09]: However it goes, Rob, stop it.

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_09]: That you love those in Panama.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So what a great cast.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think Survivor could ever replicate that season.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, that final seven was one of the most amazing group of people

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_08]: I've ever seen on television.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, I mean, Sari, Shane, you just have so many great, great people out there.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_08]: So that was a lot of fun.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_04]: T-Bird, you're going to ask him any of your other famous questions?

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to.

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_09]: I think I know the answer, but I still have to ask him.

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_09]: So this question comes from Tina Wesson.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_09]: We had her on earlier in this season.

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you have...

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Since Survivor, when you were only 18, have you gotten any tattoos that have represented

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Survivor?

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_08]: None that represent Survivor.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_08]: And I thought about it.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_08]: I thought about getting like an Ikebula tattoo, like with the turtle was kind of our symbol.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_08]: But I never ended up getting it.

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, Ikebula was...

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_08]: That was a real bonding experience for the six of us out there.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_08]: That was the third tribe created out of that season.

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, we were on an island with nothing.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_08]: And that really was a great...

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_08]: We were at the lowest of lows at that point.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_08]: We couldn't sleep.

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_08]: We didn't really eat much.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_08]: And we came together, the six of us.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_08]: If I was to get a Survivor tattoo, it would be an Ikebula tattoo.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, if you and Allison go and play Blood vs. Water, y'all can get matching tattoos

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_09]: when you get off.

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_08]: That'd be good.

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_08]: That would be really cool.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_08]: I think she would definitely be open to that.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_09]: So you have a tattoo, which I'm kind of surprised of.

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_09]: What is your tattoo of, if you don't mind sharing it with us?

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's just a Bible verse on my forearm here.

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just like a little writing inscription there.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_08]: So it's a small tattoo.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, I did get one.

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_08]: It was funny because in my interview with Jeff, I told him,

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I don't think I'd ever get a tattoo.

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_08]: And he flat out asked me, he's like,

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_08]: Is that because you're afraid of commitment?

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Whoa!

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I was like...

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_08]: Come here, boy.

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_08]: I think he was testing me a little bit to see what my answer would be to that.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't really respond.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_08]: But years later, I ended up getting the tattoo.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll take that, Jeff.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I would love to hear your thoughts on...

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody who has come out of this survivor experience so well-rounded from all accounts,

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I would think that it could potentially really do a number on a young person to go through

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_04]: this survivor experience at 18 years old, right out of high school.

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, I'm sure you might be the exception to it where everything seemingly has gone so

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_04]: well for you.

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you think survivors should be putting such young people on the show?

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_08]: I certainly think it's definitely okay to put young people on the show.

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_08]: So long as you got to do that whole long psych evaluation, make sure that they're ready for it.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_08]: And then also providing resources after the fact.

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_08]: I think Survivor now provides a little bit of counseling after the fact.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's very important and encouraging.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe even getting your own therapist both before and after really working on that mental health.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_08]: Because that was one thing I wish I did after Survivor is get a counselor, talk to somebody

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_08]: about it.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't end up doing that.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_08]: But I think young people certainly can play the game.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_08]: I think they just need a lot of support through it, both from family and friends and maybe

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_08]: from a therapist or someone like that.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I think even with people that are 21, I've seen people who are 21 come and play the show,

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_04]: even win the show.

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_04]: They have like, you know, it's a great first step of their adult life.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Seen it also go badly for people who come into the show and then get that at such a

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_04]: young age and it ends up completely derailing their future as the years go by.

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_04]: So it really...

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like flip a coin.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it is really tough.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_08]: I think the perfect age to play Survivor is around mid-20s.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_08]: I think for these younger people who are playing...

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_08]: Adam, I think was 24 when he played.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_08]: That's a good age.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_08]: You're a little bit older, a little bit more mature.

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_08]: But at the same time, I don't want to prevent any young people from playing because I did

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_08]: and so many others have and some people it really does work out well.

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_04]: On the finale of Winner's Award,

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Jeff said they're looking for people as young as 16 to play Survivor.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_04]: What'd you think of that?

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm hoping that he was just saying that to be like,

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_08]: let's get some 16, 17 year olds kind of...

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_08]: In the pipeline.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_08]: In our farm team.

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_08]: And when they turn 18, 19, 20, then we'll put them out there.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_08]: A 16 year old actually being out there, that to me is a little young.

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Even I have to draw the line somewhere.

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_09]: But Will, that's what you did when you applied, right?

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_09]: You just wanted to get in the pipeline for playing at 22.

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I never anticipated getting on at 18.

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_08]: I just figured I can apply, I should apply and maybe in a couple years when I'm in college,

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_08]: I'll get a chance.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_08]: But they came and knocked it and I couldn't say no.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Will, is there anything else that you want to let people know about your Survivor experience

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_04]: that is something that you think is important for people to understand about you?

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think for Survivor in general and with my experience,

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_08]: don't hold back.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_08]: Don't play fearful.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_08]: Don't...

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Jeff would love this.

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_08]: Because I feel like my regret of playing my season...

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't really hold myself too much account because I was so young,

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_08]: but I was so afraid of making these benchmarks.

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_08]: I just wanted to make it to the merge.

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_08]: I just wanted to win an immunity challenge.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_08]: I just wanted to make it to the loved ones visit.

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_08]: But because of that, I sacrificed my game for so long.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_08]: If I went out there just playing the game I wanted to play and having fun with it

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_08]: and not being afraid of getting voted out,

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_08]: I think it would have been a much more enjoyable experience.

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think I might have been able to pull off some pretty cool moves too.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a great metaphor for life, Will.

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_08]: Never hold back and just do what you want to do.

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_09]: So Rob, I know when I played, we all did what you said you were doing.

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_09]: We didn't want to be the first one off.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_09]: We wanted to make the merge.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_09]: So I think that's kind of normal.

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, did you find yourself doing that?

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Or was there a difference between the first time you played and the second time you played?

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that I just had such low expectations of what was going to happen the first time

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_04]: that I was just like, this is so great.

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't believe I'm here.

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't believe they're letting me do this.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think I just looked at every day as a gift more so than I was afraid of making a mistake

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_04]: because I felt like that they made a mistake by putting me on the show.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I wasn't necessarily worried about screwing up my position.

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the second time I played, I had higher expectations

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and maybe might have been more fearful of making a mistake.

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Will, Rob was recruited from Big Brother.

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_09]: He had applied for Big Brother.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_09]: So what?

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Why do you have to bring that up right now, T-Bird?

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Because that's what you were looking for.

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, I wanted Survivor.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_09]: That's all I wanted.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Will wanted Survivor.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_09]: That's all he wanted.

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_09]: He wanted Big Brother.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so what?

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, whoa, hold on.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_09]: I got to ask Will something about this.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_09]: So we just talked to a few months or so ago, Nick Brown from Australia.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Y'all have a lot in common.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_09]: He's a U.S. Navy JAG officer, an attorney.

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Y'all have a lot in common.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if you followed him or know much about him from Australia,

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_09]: but he's quite an impressive young man just like you are very much.

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I know what I want to ask, Rob.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to ask Will.

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_09]: At 18 years old, when you go up to the voting confessional

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_09]: and you're doing writing the name

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_09]: and then you do the air to throw off the other players.

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you know about this, Rob?

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_08]: No.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_09]: This is pretty cool.

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Tell him about it, Will.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_08]: So when I'm trying to remember which vote that was, was that the rock draw or?

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Zeke and then you air.

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, there is.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_08]: So to try to throw off that I flipped my vote, I wrote down Zeke,

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_08]: but then air wrote Hannah to try to make them think that I was voting one way,

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_08]: but not the other to try to get somebody to play an idol.

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_08]: And was that the rock draw or was it the final nine where it was where I voted out Zeke?

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_08]: And yes, I wrote down Zeke, but air wrote Hannah.

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_08]: To try to...

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_08]: What do you mean you air wrote Hannah?

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_08]: So you can kind of see how many letters people are writing.

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_08]: So I wrote down Zeke four letters and then I air wrote two letters like an H and I did

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_08]: it really exact.

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_04]: So they're not are they listening to the pen stroke like and then Adam does play an idol,

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_04]: right?

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Does that is that you did you force that?

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Adam told me after the fact that he was looking at my right arm to see how many letters I wrote

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_08]: and the pen strikes like players get to trick themselves.

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's kind of what I was going for.

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't think it would work, but in that moment, yeah, Adam told me it did.

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if that was really what's room over the edge to play in the idol or if he

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_08]: was going to play it anyway.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_09]: But very smart.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_04]: T-Bird anything else for Will?

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, just one more thing I just want to mention.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_09]: We lost a cast member, Mama Kim here recently.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_09]: And I know Sunday was such a huge, beautiful person.

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And it looked like your whole cast pulled together and we're so close with that.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_09]: I just I did want to mention Sunday.

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_09]: What a beautiful, beautiful person.

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_09]: And I know it affected y'all as it affected a lot of us.

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, Sunday was the glue for our cast afterwards.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_08]: And she really she was one person that I really kept in a lot of contact with.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And her family is just so beautiful and amazing.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was a really, really sad loss.

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_09]: So thank you so much for being with us.

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you for having me.

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_08]: It's been a long time since I've done one of these podcasts.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was a lot of fun.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I remember after the season was over that you sat down with

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Jordan Parhar to talk about your survivor experience.

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, Jordan.

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_08]: That was a fun interview too.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_08]: I absolutely love Jordan Parhar.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Will, anything you want to tell people to check out?

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_08]: So I mean, my Instagram is just Will underscore Wall and I post a little bit on there.

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_08]: It's been a while since I've been on Twitter, but with season 50 coming up,

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_08]: maybe I'll have to start posting a little bit more about survivor stuff.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_08]: That's what we've been doing through Wall.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a good strategy.

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Because you're always thinking ahead.

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_09]: I know you are.

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_08]: He's a smart guy.

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_08]: It's fun to me about survivor.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Good.

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Will, thank you for making some time to catch up with us here on Talking With TeeBird.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you, Will.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Take care, Will.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Alright, everybody.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_04]: There you have it.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Will Wall!

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Will Wall.

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_09]: So Rob, 26 years old now.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of people don't even play before they're 26.

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Where did the time go?

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I know.

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_09]: And Rob, look at all he's done in these last few years.

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I think he's so neat.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_09]: And then playing at 18, I think he played such a mature...

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Just his whole game was like for an 18-year-old, they couldn't have picked a better player.

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_04]: He was ahead of his time, for sure.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_04]: He had some big ideas.

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_09]: He was definitely ahead of his time.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_04]: He's a smart guy.

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_09]: He's got to be proud of how he played to get that far down.

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_09]: The cast was amazing.

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I did not have any good ideas about anything at 18 years old.

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Only, I only had bad ideas.

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, anyway...

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_04]: It would be many years later until I would have one good idea.

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_09]: What was the one good idea and how many years later was it?

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Can't say on the podcast.

[01:01:48] Okay.

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Alright.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, he was wonderful.

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Life has taken quite a change in the last year in a good way.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_04]: What's next for you, T-Bird?

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, I think we just have a couple of podcasts left before Survivor starts up.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You got people in the pipeline?

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_04]: You got it ready to go?

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_09]: This is where I'm supposed to say, yes, I do, but I don't.

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_09]: I've got a couple of things out there, but I don't have anything.

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Audience, you know what to do.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Tell T-Bird what you want.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Ask T-Bird Cooper, send it to me.

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of times I'll try to answer everybody back.

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_09]: They'll ask me about people that I have been working on for five years.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So send them to me and I'll keep working on them.

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Alright.

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for joining us for another Talking with T-Bird.

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You can listen to all of the back episodes of Talking with T-Bird in our

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Talking with T-Bird podcast feed at robinswebsite.com slash tbirdfeed.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Take care, everybody.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Have a good one.

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Bye.

[01:03:25] you