Talking Survivor 46 with Drew Basile

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[00:01:30] Conditions 18 plus. Hey everybody what's going on Rob Cesternino back we got some bonus coverage

[00:01:38] here this week it's been so much fun here in Survivor 46 trying to invite some more

[00:01:44] fun people on to chat about this and this is a podcast I've wanted to do for some time.

[00:01:50] I've really been looking forward to catch up with somebody from Survivor 45 it's Mr. Drew Basile.

[00:01:57] Is he Drew or is he Basile today? We'll find out. I mean Rob I'm flattered to be called fun

[00:02:03] let me tell you I'm excited to be here with you kind of the man of the hour right because

[00:02:09] 50 is on the horizon everybody's thinking pre-game you know how are you gonna do that

[00:02:14] clearly you're gonna go to the Rob Cesternino watch parties yeah it's an honor to have an

[00:02:19] inside track to that well you're not gonna be with us in Chicago so you're gonna miss out I know

[00:02:24] I'm gonna miss it you might look back in a couple of years what went wrong is like I couldn't get

[00:02:28] out to Chicago yeah it's gonna be like uh season 50 version of the poker alliance uh

[00:02:33] the Cesternino maniacs I gotta come up with a name for it uh but uh but yeah that that's

[00:02:38] that that's the spot to be but that's really my dream really um I don't think I'll be on

[00:02:43] survivor 50 but if there could be some sort of like uh found file footage of like me like B-roll

[00:02:49] talking oh yeah like that's really that's the dream one day I know you're a merit status okay I

[00:02:56] think I think we get out there Rob anything's possible and Drew you are across the pond you

[00:03:02] are in England uh huh we feel so far away from us listen I feel so far away from you like

[00:03:11] this is the loop and I'm over here like I'm I don't know what's going on at all it's funny

[00:03:16] though Rob I go to Oxford so I'm away from things but I was walking down the street the other day

[00:03:22] I'm on my way to get my hair cut I hope they look good and fate is good thank you thank you

[00:03:27] um we'll short for my liking but I ran into Jamie from 44 walking down the street she

[00:03:32] clocked me immediately she had a big hug I couldn't believe it I gave her some restaurant

[00:03:37] recommendations we posted on on Instagram and I kind of felt bad because like I was just

[00:03:42] like meeting of the minds you know I put some emojis in there you know because it's the style

[00:03:46] she had this like wonderful like rich like heartfelt message about how much it you know meant to her

[00:03:52] and I was like like it's just me you know and then I then I felt bad because I had I had

[00:03:56] undersold it so I had to like repost and it's very stressful social interaction very stressful

[00:04:01] but somebody should say I am out here no there's some people I can relate to that

[00:04:04] because I feel like that there's so look and we all like you you're a writer I mean and so

[00:04:10] but it's not necessarily the same thing as social media like and there's some people that they write

[00:04:14] these like uh social media posts and they're just like oh my god this is like incredibly emotional

[00:04:20] and thoughtful and I can't do that I mean I can go on a podcast and talk for three hours

[00:04:26] but I can't write an instant like when I get on Instagram it's one of the reasons I don't do

[00:04:30] it that much like like every reply is like oh my god what do I say yeah I mean you're speaking

[00:04:36] my there are some people who I just I don't want to get this taken the wrong way like

[00:04:40] I should I use this emoji is that going to get misconstrued 100% I have my my girlfriend is very

[00:04:46] indulgent and understanding about my my quirks and so I will send her I'll send her the post

[00:04:51] like this is this good is this bad it's probably like a 90% veto rate honestly from

[00:04:55] the president yeah social media my girlfriend but everybody everybody yeah my wife is great as she

[00:05:01] can write very thoughtful things on social media but I really strive so I need a whole a whole team

[00:05:06] of village to help me do social media but we're good talkers it doesn't make any sense makes

[00:05:11] sense it's different it's not the same it is it is okay we put I put too much pressure on myself

[00:05:16] anyways though enough about that yeah uh Drew survivor yes survive we're gonna talk about

[00:05:21] survivor okay Drew and so I know you are you are still at school what are you what program are you

[00:05:28] going for another than not survive for 50 what what what is going to be are you going to be when

[00:05:34] you get done with all of your schooling that is a great question uh you know I don't know am I

[00:05:39] like the uncle now if I ask that am I no no no hey listen you know it's the it's the 64

[00:05:45] thousand dollar question so it's a good one I would love one day to write uh the job market

[00:05:50] right now it's a little crazy you know we know in the real world uh but I'm on scholarship here at

[00:05:54] Oxford so I can kind of ride the gravy train for another couple years get a phd things like that

[00:05:59] yeah um but what do you want to write fiction I would love to write yeah no I'd love to write novels

[00:06:04] and love to write fiction I actually have something I've been working on for about a year

[00:06:07] it's coming together pretty well um I'm good I'm a good survivor 50 fan fiction yeah Jeff is

[00:06:13] in it there's like a plane crash it's it's it's uh it's called lost I don't really think it's

[00:06:18] been done before but but yeah I really like I really like the direction and I think it's got some

[00:06:22] marketability uh no that's a that's a that's a joke um so yeah anyways one day I would love to

[00:06:28] be going for a second yeah no I know I'm very I'm a great liar people always tell me that um

[00:06:35] but doing the doing like the content stuff you know because that's mine that's my strength

[00:06:38] let's it's it's the it's the the brain not the good look and then since the season ended

[00:06:44] back in December uh how's the last couple of months been for you it's been great uh Rob I I have to

[00:06:51] tell you especially with the time change you know at first I was I was gonna be so mature about

[00:06:55] survivor 45 and I wasn't gonna look at social media and I was gonna watch the episodes the next day

[00:07:00] I mean very quickly like that is not tenable so I'm gonna stay up to four in the morning to

[00:07:04] watch the thing and then you gotta read all the redditor comments and you gotta watch um

[00:07:08] the Rob has a podcast recaps which is what every survivor does they see all your comments so

[00:07:14] remember that you know that your your voice all my comments commenters what's up oh the people

[00:07:19] that are listening you're talking to the people oh yeah no no no the the survivor crazy experience

[00:07:25] they're looking at they're looking at your comment they're reading so they probably they don't

[00:07:28] I mean they're probably too busy to listen to the whole podcast but they're just gonna read

[00:07:31] all the comments on the YouTube oh yeah they're gonna go on reddit they're gonna search their

[00:07:35] name they're gonna go through the magnifying glass they're gonna put together a hit list

[00:07:39] for their biggest haters I mean it's very involved but no since survivors and the survivors keep a

[00:07:45] list of the people that are the meanest to them is that is that true no I mean that that's not true

[00:07:52] I mean I think if I was a redditor I might be like whoa I'm gonna tread lightly I didn't know

[00:07:56] the survivors were there's some names if there's somebody who's very persistent you definitely

[00:08:01] remember that is like there's one person there's one person on Twitter who like I know by profile

[00:08:08] pic like okay like you're you're a hater um and I know for a fact other people other players kind of

[00:08:15] kind of sure but hey you know I can first you know not to say I don't have uh haters but I can

[00:08:22] remember when I went through it and you know we had talked about like I posted the meme of

[00:08:28] you couldn't last one hour in the asylum that I grew up in and I posted about survivor

[00:08:32] sucks and boy Drew we could do a whole podcast on that but yeah I remember what the one guy in

[00:08:38] particular I remember his avatar I remember his name at this guy no matter what happened with me

[00:08:45] that this guy was belligerent well I don't know if we want to do some shoutouts but there is

[00:08:52] somebody on sucks because once you go do survivor you have this incredible experience and you can't

[00:08:56] tell anyone about it and especially if you did well you're like you're kind of like you

[00:09:01] know you're the prince and the king is in in the hospital like you're awaiting your coronation

[00:09:05] there was this one guy in hospice on uh not on sucks and his name was like ladies man 30 or

[00:09:11] something like that and he came up with this mythology about the wolf pack that was going to

[00:09:15] run survivor 45 and like like yeah we thought this was just hysterical um yeah so yeah and I'm sure

[00:09:22] no doubt a true ladies man uh taking just a small break from

[00:09:28] um whining and dining various dates to post over between clubs pulling up sucks yeah

[00:09:35] discoursing yeah the wolf pack the wolf pack who is in the wolf pack I don't even remember it was

[00:09:41] all like the alpha bros so you know I was I was on the outside I was looking in from a you know

[00:09:46] anthropological distance yeah um for sure but yeah I know it's great fun and honestly

[00:09:53] interacting with the online community is a blast uh like it's very enjoyable I never really took

[00:09:58] it to heart I think a lot of people do I think people on 46 really are um which is unfortunate

[00:10:03] because if that's true stop replying to things on twitter um what do you think about can I ask

[00:10:09] you okay so in in survivor 45 I mean the survivor 45 cast was pretty calm on social media for the

[00:10:15] most part um but season 46 uh really the cat's out of the bag can't put the toothpaste back

[00:10:22] in the tube on survivor 46 on social media the inmates are running the asylum on 46 I don't know

[00:10:28] what yes it is it's doing and it's kind of like sometimes with with student they're too busy

[00:10:32] thinking they're having meetings about survivor 50 they are I know they're they put the car before

[00:10:37] the horse but with student loans a lot of times I see this argument with the army they're like

[00:10:40] they're like I went through it you have to do it you know and I'm always like oh I don't know

[00:10:44] that's not the right I went through it I went through the restrictions on social media you

[00:10:48] gotta do it this is not it's not just yeah but would you like to see some sort of like um social

[00:10:55] media ban forgiveness uh given out by the survivor administration so yeah yeah yeah I mean

[00:11:03] well our moment is past you know that's the thing it's like all those funny memes I could have

[00:11:08] posted another they're lost to the sands of time but I do think that the um from a viewer

[00:11:14] perspective I love the twitter beef it reminds me of kagayan back when like Tony every episode would

[00:11:18] go on and you were there for that I was uh I was that was the first season I like really was on

[00:11:25] online for um kagayan 28 I know eons ago I was there was a young strapping lad but

[00:11:34] I mean from a from a player perspective though it really is a mistake because

[00:11:37] survivor is very stressful to go through that airing experience to be exposed to so many opinions

[00:11:42] of you most of which are negative um and your reactions feel proportionate at the time but I

[00:11:48] really feel that like in the future you might regret some of the things you post and the way you

[00:11:52] conducted yourself on social media and it's very much a situation like if you if you like retaliate

[00:11:57] you're egging it on you know the teasing is effective because you're reacting so it's tough

[00:12:01] but it's kind of a situation where like everybody's got to learn their own lesson like you'll

[00:12:05] know you'll know for your returning season yeah okay so drew let's talk a little bit about

[00:12:09] survivor 46 I'm really eager to hear your thoughts on uh you know how it's been going and where we're

[00:12:16] at right now yeah I mean listen Rob I like 46 um one of the things about playing on the survivor

[00:12:25] is that people say that you come back and kind of like the magic is gone like you know how

[00:12:29] the sausage is made like you know the tricks uh I don't feel that way at all like I I feel

[00:12:34] totally naive about it like it's still wondrous it's still entertaining so I like it um but 46 is

[00:12:41] interesting I find a lot of the gameplay to be a little bit like objectionable and like the one

[00:12:45] sticking point is that it's it's like it's like keeping up with the Joneses you know like everybody's

[00:12:50] got to make a big move and I gotta betray their ally that's like a checkmark like no it is not

[00:12:54] that's that's how you lose survivor so right so it's very frustrating yeah I'd love to just get

[00:12:59] your take a little bit about the difference between survivor 45 and 46 because I feel like

[00:13:05] the survivor 45 cast I mean you all you left and you you didn't see the uh the post merge from 44

[00:13:13] and they and they did right is that do I have that correct yeah yeah yeah we saw so was there

[00:13:20] something that they saw in the survivor uh 44 post merge that kind of like changed their

[00:13:27] worldview or is it just that the personalities are just so different you know I really um down on the

[00:13:37] this idea which is very common in the community that the last season that airs really affects your

[00:13:43] perception of the game certainly it does in terms of challenges and advantages right because

[00:13:46] you know what's kind of on the mind of the producers like the swap okay we know there's

[00:13:50] going to be a swap however I think that you really formulate how you're going to play during

[00:13:56] casting and so it's that fall season that's critical actually um so the people on 46 are

[00:14:01] responding to 43 they're responding to Jesse and Cody making a big move taking out your ally is

[00:14:08] kind of the coronation move 43 adding on to I think Marianne and 42 that that's what they've taken

[00:14:14] as the meta very fluid game states with a coalition alliance among the three tribes

[00:14:20] that's what Q tried to assemble I think that there was some grouping like that at the

[00:14:23] beginning of 43 um so that's obviously the season they're at I would expect a really similar

[00:14:28] result honestly the tight duo turning on each other at the end somebody who's not really well

[00:14:34] estimated but was within that group coming to the win I really think that's how it's going to

[00:14:38] break down um so I think that we look towards 47 and 48 they're probably going to take uh

[00:14:44] their cues from 45 rather than 46 or 46 kind of yeah from us so I would expect to see in the

[00:14:50] future a strong tribal alliance that tries to undersell itself coming into the merge yeah

[00:14:56] especially when we've seen so many people having issues with going after their allies here in 46

[00:15:03] I do wonder if that's really a lot of the wisdom that's going to be the takeaway of the uh

[00:15:08] read before and what you all were able to accomplish and you know just how sound of

[00:15:14] a structure that was and I think it's so interesting that in these six seasons that

[00:15:19] we've seen in the new era that the one time we've really had this cohesive group uh which was able to

[00:15:26] you know go pretty far into the game was this read before and it was the one season in which we had

[00:15:31] a tribe swap yeah absolutely and I think that uh that's kind of a testament to like you know the

[00:15:39] value see in the world like you live in your little home you know your clothes minded you don't

[00:15:44] know you you have you have base tastes and then if you see the world and explore a little bit

[00:15:49] you can kind of come home and appreciate the savor for it um this is a sentiment similar to the idea

[00:15:54] that you should go to tribal council at least once before the mergers I don't necessarily agree with

[00:15:59] but um it's very easy to get a closed perspective on what's possible in the game of survivor when

[00:16:06] you're stuck with six people the whole way uh and so part of getting a tribe swap is um testing

[00:16:12] your relationships kind of realizing that like the grass was greener back at home uh and and

[00:16:17] then being able to come together and like wow it's a lot of true I think you've just basically

[00:16:21] outlined the premise for temptation island you know you have this this like oh yeah with people

[00:16:28] and they're like but we you know what like uh I think this this feel this is good but like

[00:16:33] what if there's something better out there well let me let me test the waters a little bit and

[00:16:37] you go you get tempted and then they bring you back do you want to stay or do you want

[00:16:40] to go into the vision and you know your group we went out and saw the world and then came

[00:16:46] back and said no this is it this is home we were uh the prod prodigal sons you know had a little bit

[00:16:51] of a tribe swab to bellow beach and uh no rebut rebut rebut for us yeah that is what what definitely

[00:16:56] happened you can really see that cabin fever mentality on 46 so going back to 45 a little bit

[00:17:03] you know that all of the resume talk and I need these moves for my resume I feel like

[00:17:09] and tell me if I am misremembering this but I feel like in terms of in 45 we heard it more

[00:17:16] in terms of like uh the jakes and catorra's where the people that were sort of like a little bit on

[00:17:23] the outside of the main structure it's like hey I need I need these things for my resume

[00:17:31] because I am like down in terms of my standing amongst the jury but amongst the

[00:17:39] rebut for was the idea of my my moves my resume like was that something that the four of you were

[00:17:47] talking about or thinking about no I mean not really honestly like I think rebut for was kind

[00:17:53] of an anomaly alliance and that we were really enamored by each other um and so it was kind

[00:17:58] of a perspective that like we felt okay going to the end with each other and like duking it out

[00:18:04] at final tribal um and having it be anyone's game because you know we'd gone so much so much of the

[00:18:09] game together um there was kind of a you know a sense that like okay we're stuck in the

[00:18:13] in the three-legged race you know and like we're walking together and whose actual foot is

[00:18:17] going to get over the line like that'll be it um but no the resume talk wasn't really so

[00:18:22] prominent and I think that resume talk is a fundamental misunderstanding that plays the

[00:18:26] new era because resumes don't win survivor like they really do not and that sounds shocking but

[00:18:32] if I'm 40 and I worked at Goldman Sachs when I was 22 for two years and I haven't done anything since

[00:18:38] are they really going to want to hire me no there's a huge gap in my resume I got one little

[00:18:42] I got one little note what wins survivor is narratives you need to have a narrative of your

[00:18:48] progress through the game of your control that's why Emily was a big threat yeah Emily did she

[00:18:52] have a big resume move on the way that some other people did maybe not but Emily had that underdog

[00:18:58] narrative and that's what actually wins games so yeah people really focused on these sys-effician

[00:19:04] strategic moves to you know gold star their resume are playing incoherent games that probably

[00:19:11] won't be rewarded by a bitter jury yeah this is a really interesting point because you know I've

[00:19:16] been talking a little bit this season um and I've been talking a lot of this this theory

[00:19:21] that I have of survivor in the new era of basically we have like uh there's three types of people that

[00:19:26] are in the game uh we have the people that I've been like affectionately calling uh the losers

[00:19:32] the people who like okay they they cannot win uh there are the nothings that are sort of like okay

[00:19:39] they're there their numbers they haven't really made a move they don't really have the respect

[00:19:43] but they don't have the disrespect you know people have more like sort of like neutral

[00:19:46] feelings for them and then there are the people who are the threats if the threat gets to the

[00:19:50] end they'll win but they're also the biggest targets out there and the juiciest targets out there where

[00:19:56] if I can like take out a threat I could potentially go from a nothing to now I am a threat I can run

[00:20:03] TJ's final I can win the game because I have at least like this notch on my belt that I can show

[00:20:08] to people but where part of the reason that people are the threats are because they just

[00:20:14] have this likeability about them and that there are some people in the game that they don't really

[00:20:20] even need to do anything other than just get to the end because they are just they seem like you

[00:20:27] spot them at ponderosa this person if they got to the end they'll yeah they'll they'll they'll win

[00:20:33] they don't have to do anything yeah listen I mean Rob it's a it's a sad reality of life

[00:20:40] that some people have charisma some people are the life of the party and have that command

[00:20:45] and they are naturally you know predisposed to to be in a dominant position on survivor as

[00:20:49] at as at the workplace as everywhere I totally agree with your taxonomy and I think but like why

[00:20:58] it wasn't always like this right like it used to be that like strategy kind of kind of in the 30s

[00:21:04] strategy was what singled you out I felt did it because I feel like that that's what we at home

[00:21:09] as viewers want to say if we were on that jury we would look at who did what moves but I really

[00:21:17] and I've said this that it's always about who did they like the most who did they you know who

[00:21:23] do they feel like that they could write their name down it's it's always been who do they like the

[00:21:26] most and then when there's three people and it's sort of like a toss up okay um you know I feel

[00:21:31] like a little bit better about this person and then the jury when we ask them well why did

[00:21:37] you vote for that person then they they don't ever say like well I look I like that guy that's my

[00:21:42] friend they'll give you well they did this they did this they did this and that's where I think all

[00:21:47] of this resume when people like talk themselves into knots about like why did Chris Underwood would

[00:21:52] well he did this he did he won this challenge he made the fire he did like you gotta vote for

[00:21:57] him then well I mean 100% people vote for who they like more like definitely true in

[00:22:03] the vast majority of cases but I'm referring more to like the power structure and like the beginning

[00:22:08] of the middle of the game and like an example I'll take is like millennials versus gen X the two

[00:22:14] dominant people in those in those groups were David and Zeke who ostensibly were kind of fish

[00:22:18] out of water you know like they didn't have that like oozing suffusive charisma that that like Jay

[00:22:24] had um so that's kind of the sense that I mean that at least in terms of the power

[00:22:29] structure at camp strategy used to be a little more present but now it really is just like pure

[00:22:34] social like people like Charlie is a great example where Charlie is the strategic brain behind

[00:22:40] Seigham behind the majority alliance at this point I think that's pretty indisputable but

[00:22:45] yet he's not well I would say uh I feel like that him and Maria uh like strategically to me at

[00:22:51] least it seems um that it's a co um yeah you know like I have not been able to parse strategically

[00:23:00] Charlie and Maria I feel like that they've worked together I feel like that Charlie might uh have

[00:23:06] maybe a better social game and be able to like uh have some of these conversations be a little bit

[00:23:12] better than Maria is and is seen as less of a threat definitely seems less I mean the only

[00:23:18] reason I kind of prioritize Charlie over Maria is because Maria didn't uh Charlie had explained to her

[00:23:25] why it was good they weren't getting the credit um and then Charlie pushed for Liz rather than Venus to

[00:23:32] be brought in and they bring Liz um so I feel like that's maybe a subtle gesture by the edit

[00:23:36] that like you know Charlie is the driving strategic force but maybe not maybe I'm seeing ghosts on that

[00:23:42] um yeah I don't want to take any credit away from Charlie I just think that um I like

[00:23:48] I don't want to say it's like uh you know 100% Charlie zero Maria and it's not necessarily um

[00:23:54] you know that case I do think that Charlie has gotten more in the edit but yeah I feel like that Maria

[00:23:59] is viewed as the more um feared of final opponent yeah I I think that Charlie uh similar to Ben

[00:24:08] probably has a little bit of like an image crisis right now like it seems like the the totem pole

[00:24:13] on that on that tribe is at the bottom you have Liz and Venus um I think Liz might even be below

[00:24:18] Venus and then Keo was there on the bottom but seems more dangerous and you have Charlie and Ben

[00:24:25] uh and maybe Kenzie and then you have Maria and um maybe I've forgotten somebody but that's

[00:24:34] I think that's the social hierarchy more or less give or take yeah okay so let's pick things up

[00:24:41] here you know this week and now okay Tiffany has gone out how do you see this thing uh moving forward

[00:24:50] well it's it's really frustrating because common sense should indicate that there's a type three

[00:24:57] that everybody knows about and now I think one word seven seven word eight it's word seven

[00:25:03] so this is your last time to have numbers to pick off one of the type three who just made

[00:25:07] move to reveal to everybody that they're together right leaving Venus out Liz gets pulled in the

[00:25:13] last moment as kind of a charity gesture Q as nobody um and then uh who am I forgetting um somebody

[00:25:22] else Kenzie Kenzie yeah Kenzie is smart enough to realize they just took out her number one

[00:25:27] ally yeah so every rational fiber should be indicating these people they need to come

[00:25:32] together to take out one of the three I doubt it's gonna yeah well I feel like that we had

[00:25:36] this a little bit last season where okay you know there was a point where the other the the non-reba

[00:25:44] people you know I was it and stop me if I got any of these numbers wrong but you you all took out

[00:25:49] what Kelly at 10 right yeah I think so and so that means then there were only the reba four

[00:25:58] and then the people that outnumbered the rebos could have you know come together

[00:26:03] and and and stopped you but it was a group of people that that were not but you know that Katorra

[00:26:10] and Bruce and and Emily like uh you know needed to and Jake and people that like did did not have

[00:26:17] we're not on the same page needed to come together and I kind of feel like that that's where we

[00:26:21] are now where I think the three seagulls okay that they've shown that they could still work

[00:26:26] together but now could you conceivably imagine that this four Kenzie Q and Venus and Liz

[00:26:37] are going to work together when that none of them like Q yeah no I mean mountains would need to

[00:26:45] move for for that for to get together I think it's all been a shared thing

[00:26:49] is Q the swing boat this week I don't think so I mean the reality is Q Q was a lot like Tony

[00:26:57] because they reinvent the game constantly everything they do is new and fresh and exciting

[00:27:03] but the difference between Q and Tony is that Tony is always able to pull you in

[00:27:08] you know you always orbit Tony whereas Q is it's like he's the episode of the magnet you

[00:27:13] know he repels he pushes people away he alienates people um everybody who works with Q is

[00:27:18] eventually alienated by Q and fundamentally a swing vote kind of means you're the hottest girl at the

[00:27:23] party you know you're hoarding all the suitors if you're if you're pushing them away with these

[00:27:27] these vile displays um you're never gonna effectively be the swing vote and so again

[00:27:32] for the same reason that we see like that four never going they're never gonna be able to get

[00:27:36] together like similarly Q the personalities Q is never going to be able to be the swing

[00:27:40] right if Q tried to be the swing vote he would get voted out this week because I think that's the

[00:27:44] point where he was playing both ends against like it would be sort of like uh you know one of my

[00:27:49] favorites of that you could see the two the other two threes of people not to say that

[00:27:54] Venus Kenzie and Liz are three but you know they have mutually aligned interests

[00:28:00] that they could get like hey you want to all just vote out Q this week

[00:28:05] yeah I I think that's very probable especially if there's some kind of like

[00:28:09] you know funny business about a idol because right now Q is kind of like neutralized you know

[00:28:13] he's just there like he's dangerous if you if you give him a weapon but he's just there and

[00:28:17] if he doesn't rock the boat he could stay um if if there's some kind of shenanigans about an idol

[00:28:23] if he starts faking one if he makes himself a problem for probably you know psychological

[00:28:27] reasons because he needs to have power he wants to be the you know the center of the attention

[00:28:32] that that's the kind of situation where they're gonna snipe him so it'll be interesting to see

[00:28:36] hopefully he can continue to kind of like play beneath the radar and hopefully that's an

[00:28:40] intentional move rather than what somebody suggested like his head is out of the game

[00:28:45] but but if he if he kind of if he gets swirly I think I think I'll very quickly be the end

[00:28:49] of Q rather than like a swing ball position one of my big questions going into this final seven

[00:28:53] is that yeah is Charlie at some point like we've seen so many other people in this game say

[00:29:00] I need to take out my number one to win the game I feel like that if Charlie and Maria get to the

[00:29:06] end I do think that the jury will see Maria as like the the person that with a bit of an edge

[00:29:14] not to say that Charlie can't win in that final three but I do feel like that Maria is viewed as

[00:29:18] as like a little bit more of the uh like the boss of Siga so does Charlie well does Charlie

[00:29:27] need to vote out Maria and do you think he will I think the answer to both of those questions is yes

[00:29:35] I think that the the tribe probably sees Charlie's a little young just based on like

[00:29:41] like comments I've seen whatever Maria is going to get the credit Maria also is a little bit

[00:29:49] alienating socially like she keeps people on their toes she's brought in Q I mean how long

[00:29:53] that's gonna last we'll see it's like it's like you know having a tiger as your pet

[00:29:57] um but she's pushed away Venus she's pushed away Liz she's pushed away Ben in a secret scene

[00:30:03] so she doesn't have the social capital to protect herself if Charlie decides that she needs to go

[00:30:08] um and I Charlie's a smart enough guy that he's gonna he's gonna make a decision

[00:30:11] I really see Charlie winning that battle between Maria and him which maybe is coloring my

[00:30:17] perception of like the strategic credit alignment uh with that within that group

[00:30:21] but will it be a pyrrhic victory for Charlie where if he votes out Maria will he make it to the end

[00:30:32] I mean you know it's really unfortunate because the new era the meta has become this

[00:30:36] just like following of the dominoes from from seven to five and then you're left with relatively

[00:30:43] dissatisfying winners um at four and I know for a fact that this is something production

[00:30:49] is specifically noticed and dislikes production is against this meta okay they see it originating

[00:30:55] with like the mid 30s I'm not gonna like say specific people they're very against it they want like

[00:31:00] with the winners to go to the end and I hold out hope too because it's better TV I would

[00:31:04] like a strong coalition to go to the end rather than Venus Liz Q Ben um but it's really

[00:31:12] questioned I mean the one saving grace that we could hope that like some power players make

[00:31:15] it to the end is the fact that Q and Venus are really they're kind of alienating um and so that

[00:31:23] social gratingness might mean that people don't play rationally they don't play in their best

[00:31:27] interest to like knock down the dominoes yeah and maybe we get enough like big players in the

[00:31:32] final six that it ends up in kind of like a stalemate and people sweep through that's

[00:31:36] my only hope I think that we'll get one big player left now Drew if survivor came to you and

[00:31:41] said hey Drew we want you to be a consultant for the show help us help us with this problem okay

[00:31:47] okay what would you advise them to do oh I mean I don't even know I think that uh you

[00:31:56] got to change the format number one I mean first of all I have been a survivor consultant little

[00:31:59] known fact after the auction stopped they like interviewed us on like what we should change and

[00:32:04] how we like and how we're gonna bring it back so no they have my number they know they've

[00:32:08] consulted will you share with us what how you thought they could improve the auction yeah I said uh you

[00:32:16] know that the real questions are we gonna introduce an advantage and so I said put in an advantage

[00:32:23] um don't tell people what number it's going to be maintain the same vote loss mechanic

[00:32:29] so like it's really a high-risk thing to like that's what I didn't like about the

[00:32:32] auction was that I feel like that it was just like everybody was just like falling over

[00:32:35] themselves to spend all their money it wasn't like an actual like we've lost the plot a little bit

[00:32:41] on the auction of that I want to see people like okay figuring out like what food do they want how

[00:32:47] much money they could spend on it it was like it was like black Thursday you know you gotta get

[00:32:51] out of the bank uh the bank's gonna fail uh somebody's gonna go bankrupt lose their vote um so I

[00:32:56] totally agree and so the idea and this is something I think production shares is that

[00:32:59] introducing an advantage is a way to stop like this kind of like meaningless money spending

[00:33:06] for food while still getting the moment but you don't want to introduce an advantage in a way that

[00:33:10] like everyone will just wait so the question needs to be like like there's some volatility around one

[00:33:14] of the advantage will come up and there's consequences it doesn't so that was you know

[00:33:18] that was the thrust of my consultancy um and I was I was uh paid no money for that so I was

[00:33:23] very fortunate yeah and I gotta get together like McKinsey or something um in terms of uh how

[00:33:29] we need to spice up survivor because let me tell you it needs to be spiced up and they know it

[00:33:33] what's up that I feel like that this is a spicy take coming in is it the format is it's stale

[00:33:42] the three tribe format with no tribe split yeah basically results in kg gameplay and the tightest

[00:33:50] group at the merge prevailing like every season it results this way 41 42 44 not really 43 I don't

[00:33:59] think but it maybe maybe I don't know what the edit was like 45 46 is looking like so when the same

[00:34:04] strategy wins six seasons in a row you start to realize that this is the optimal strategy yeah um

[00:34:10] so the way solution is number one but two tribes and then to have a tribe split I split I think that

[00:34:16] the two tribes dynamic with a two tribes spot tribe split is is the most fresh is the most

[00:34:21] vital way of playing the game yeah the most interesting combinations well okay I think

[00:34:25] you're making a good point here uh because I think that's okay um like I just to give uh survivor

[00:34:33] some credit okay I think that what they like the idea that they have like I think is fine

[00:34:41] you want to do three tribes okay that but I think what the problem is is that you have

[00:34:47] telegraph that every single season is exactly the same and so the players have like extreme certainty

[00:34:56] of like okay it's day 17 we know that we know what's happening today we know okay we know to do this

[00:35:03] we know to do this and I think that the decisions for the players become a little bit more

[00:35:09] easy because they know exactly what the format of the game is going to be and other than in

[00:35:15] your season where they had the tribe swap which I do think that may have been like sort of triggered by

[00:35:20] the you know the disaster thank you ship yeah um other other than that like the game has been like

[00:35:29] almost identical for every single one of these seasons and I think that the players have like

[00:35:34] really adapted to that I completely agree and I didn't think this season there was some kind of

[00:35:39] irony with it because like Hunter did that challenge where he's got to order the logos

[00:35:43] and like that challenge trades on survivor history and having seasons with unique identities now you

[00:35:49] could do that challenge because every logo is a number you know survivors like celebrating its

[00:35:53] history while you know a facing the the marks they made that history characteristic so it's

[00:35:58] kind of it's kind of like an unfortunate like you know duh aha moment um but in terms of the

[00:36:06] Lulu tribe swap interesting point that they would have introduced to save Lulu I feel like recently

[00:36:11] they've kind of been going for the screwball tribe like this is it's a repeated thing that appears

[00:36:18] two tribes are stacked one tribe is the the goober's basically um and I'm wondering if they do it

[00:36:25] because they like have a bunch of people who they don't know how vile what they're gonna be

[00:36:28] they want some to make it through but I would say that this season and you could say okay

[00:36:32] certainly like looking back at Lulu okay uh that uh was probably predictable but I really felt

[00:36:39] like that coming into the season I thought that Yanu was the strongest tribe I said wow you got Q

[00:36:45] Angelinsky and Bono looks like he's in great shape and Tiffany is strong and Jess played rugby and

[00:36:50] I really thought that they were going to be physically a very strong team I did not see them

[00:36:56] out just being such a disaster that's it's a good point um like survivors the producers are not

[00:37:02] in god so they don't know how people can react when they get out there um I feel like what I've

[00:37:07] heard is that there's one bad beach uh that they and they try to like uh give the bad beach to the

[00:37:14] team that they think uh is like physically not so good I I will live on all the beaches so I'd

[00:37:21] be curious which uh which what do you think is that not true no it's not true um every

[00:37:27] beach has their respective strengths uh so the Riba beach uh which is the merge beach this

[00:37:31] season uh it probably has like the least food on I mean they have coconuts obviously they

[00:37:37] have some breadfruit some jackfruit is there um what's the crab situation crabs are plentiful

[00:37:43] and that beach also has the best fish right so that's that's a pretty flush because I feel

[00:37:48] that maybe one of the reasons why Liz has really faded is maybe she's out of place uh that doesn't

[00:37:52] have anything that she can eat that's the best beach for crabs I mean those crabs

[00:37:56] really don't have much meat on them but there is food there for Liz yeah um Lulu beach has

[00:38:01] the most fruit right and then um bellow beach is kind of all around like it has got it's got more

[00:38:07] fish than Lulu beach more crabs than Lulu beach but like you know a little bit less fruit so I think

[00:38:12] the beaches are pretty even I think this is kind of just like people compensating on the internet for

[00:38:16] like how could one tribe suck so much yeah you know and it survivor doesn't necessarily reward

[00:38:21] like clear cut strength like a lot of the times is strong people who are good on survivor

[00:38:25] aren't like necessarily the strongest charlie's a great example and people who are really strong

[00:38:28] like you actually kind of suck at the challenges how's your grip strength drew

[00:38:33] it's bad you know these these preparers man on the one hand I got to admire it I should have done it

[00:38:38] like study the puzzles practice my grip on the other hand it's like you're taking the fun out

[00:38:42] of the game that's how I feel about 50 like if you pregame for 50 you're a loser and I know

[00:38:47] everyone's going to do it anyways but you guys seriously are losers because I'm at camera zooming

[00:38:53] in and out you're destroying the like the value and the excitement of the game like it's it's

[00:38:59] disappointing you know stop practicing just go out there survivor is a test and it's best form you

[00:39:04] know it's like do I stack up am I a loser or a winner can I can I survive the elements like my

[00:39:09] primitive ancestors might have you know yeah why would you want to practice for that with your

[00:39:13] 3d printer well I think that this ties back into the earlier conversation we're having about

[00:39:18] that if the show is the same every single season then it makes it too easy for people to prepare

[00:39:24] and I think that the truest test of you know who is the best survivor should be like keep everybody

[00:39:32] on their toes like it used to be and and switch it up I'm going out there I don't know I'm gonna

[00:39:37] play two tribes I'm going with four tribes am I gonna play uh that you know this versus

[00:39:41] that or whatever is there gonna be two tribe swaps is there gonna be three yeah like are

[00:39:46] they gonna throw something new at me and not just okay we've perfected the wheel this is it

[00:39:52] this is the this is the format I mean they're gonna throw something you know first of all

[00:39:57] I'll put it on the record I would be shocked if season 50 is not a two-tribe season I'd be

[00:40:00] shocked if it's three tribes um but like the the the balance that you gotta hold is number one

[00:40:08] we want the best players to win which means we want to avoid luck as much as possible

[00:40:14] like we want it to be a game of skill on the other hand if it's purely skill right if there's no luck

[00:40:19] at all can make for pretty boring tv um and it also can be optimized so you gotta you gotta take the

[00:40:25] both um and and compromise between the two this is something and actually this has been something

[00:40:31] I've been meaning to say some controversial stuff um but the best players don't win survivor

[00:40:37] the best player on a season do I I've been waiting for somebody to say this for a long time

[00:40:43] this is the answer I mean this is the uh the appetizer

[00:40:47] I mean you're being sarcastic right I mean little economy little column B yeah yeah

[00:40:54] this is a common thread but furthermore not only do the best players not win survivor

[00:40:59] but the juries oftentimes make the wrong decisions and they know it I'm not referring to season 45

[00:41:05] but the jury is a is a very flawed mechanic that produces a lot of times bad winners um

[00:41:11] that then the added has to go back after the fact and justify okay so true yeah can you tell us

[00:41:18] sometimes that the jury got it wrong uh let's see is some of this some of the people are still in the

[00:41:26] in the community like Russell Hans jury got it wrong that's that's a that's Russell should

[00:41:30] Russell should have won should have won without this is a controversial opinion I think that at

[00:41:35] the time people said oh Russell should have won but then really upon further review and even

[00:41:41] I have gone back and sort of like uh have have won and I too had to be like really convinced I rewatch

[00:41:48] Samoa there's definitely things that um you know Natalie was doing along the way Natalie had a plan

[00:41:55] it was not a super exciting plan and she executed on it but going back to our rubric of like who

[00:42:00] does the jury like the best well that's the thing because it's a little more complicated than

[00:42:07] that because people always say like jury management Joe you should have had better jury management what

[00:42:12] they don't realize is that the game of survivor does not end when you're voted off people are still

[00:42:17] playing survivor at the jury villa and moreover people are still playing survivor in the community

[00:42:23] to game for a return so what you're really doing is letting all these people get voted off

[00:42:29] very bitter sit at a jury villa plot together about what they could have done differently

[00:42:34] who deserves the credit what their edits are going to look like depending on who the winner is

[00:42:40] and they socially interact and then you get a winner based on that separate game that is

[00:42:44] going on simultaneously yeah that viewers are not privy to so again this is not in reference

[00:42:50] to 45 D is a fabulous winner probably the best winner of the new era perfect representation of

[00:42:55] our season you know I voted for Austin but D is as deserving as it gets not in reference to our

[00:43:01] season yeah but the fundamental jury mechanic is a problem that is endemic and like you see it even

[00:43:07] in some new era seasons probably yeah yeah I would debate uh Samoa to along uh but that jury

[00:43:14] like that they hated Russell's guts he was a stranger uh that's you know 25 days go by

[00:43:22] they hate him so much in that they're like working to make sure he does not win the game

[00:43:28] from the jury I just think by by that rubric like he screwed something up royally well that's

[00:43:36] probably true but I do recall heroes versus villains I'm not that into the lore yes I do recall Jerry

[00:43:42] coming out of the game fully intent on voting Russell yes and then being kind of convinced

[00:43:47] slash berated by the jury into no longer doing that yeah I mean that'll happen yeah sure at

[00:43:52] ponderosa you know people like there's definitely like okay this is what we're doing so yeah there's

[00:43:59] certainly a more perfect jury system I think that they could come up with the point of all this is

[00:44:05] is that uh that that luck is already a huge part of the game that like you know it's never going

[00:44:10] to be the best win and so why don't you break from like a format that tries to optimize skill

[00:44:14] and throw a little more excitement in there that's my that's my pitch and what is the

[00:44:17] way to throw more excitement in there um changing tribes dynamics so like the starting tribe size

[00:44:25] changing season size how many players are in there throwing in uh throwing in splits

[00:44:33] swaps that's the that's the term um and something's got to be done about advantages I don't know what

[00:44:38] it is this one I don't have an answer to but advantages are useless I mean they're

[00:44:42] they're albatross yeah well what's going on here with the idols in this season okay so we have the

[00:44:50] four idols this season yeah every idol has gone home unplayed uh with the person who had it

[00:44:56] randon then uh gem then hunter and now Tiffany so I mean rammed and obviously kind of a kind

[00:45:04] of a fluke case there but the idol is seen right now as like like a curse it's like it's like

[00:45:11] leprosy you know and like if you have the idol and everyone knows about it and you're not like

[00:45:16] austin who has like such close people that don't even care like good for you which is very rare I

[00:45:20] really think it's an anomaly it makes you a huge huge target because nobody wants to db the ricochet

[00:45:27] everyone works way too hard to get out there on survivor to risk going home by chance or fluke

[00:45:32] so you can't I mean we're now really at a point where if you get an idol you really can't tell

[00:45:37] people right like that's just the way the meta has turned all the advantages or other advantages are

[00:45:42] seen as useless nobody cares if you have them but the idol is just the one that is just like so hot

[00:45:47] right now it can't function so I think that one way that maybe survivor could fix this is like

[00:45:53] having less hoopla and finding the idols because right now the idols are hidden in these kind of

[00:45:58] precarious you know complicated ruby goldberg style ways and it and it results in a lot of

[00:46:03] times having to enlist allies and if you have to enlist an ally to find the idols all

[00:46:06] the allies know that you have the idol and don't want the idol in the game so you're basically forced

[00:46:12] to to handicap yourself um as I just get back to regular idols and make them look cool make

[00:46:17] them look like like like totems like I don't want to keep seeing these little measly you know things

[00:46:23] of strings a toddler could have put together like an art department you're great but like this is

[00:46:27] this is this is they'll concede they did the idea is that like oh somebody will use a fake

[00:46:31] idol but there's so much you know can I swear on this yeah kai kus yeah there's so much

[00:46:36] shit on that island anyway you can make a okay or an eight one too is this though all these players

[00:46:42] going out of the game with their idols is this a bug or is this a feature of the new era do they

[00:46:48] do because I have said this for a long time that you know survivor puts all of these advantages

[00:46:55] into survivor not so that players can play them correctly I think that survivor gets much

[00:47:04] more mileage out of people who misplay the idols and the advantages uh do you listen to rap rob

[00:47:15] rjp oh so sometimes not as much as I do yes you know this guy mf doom he's a rapper

[00:47:21] no for the word play you know this guy I do not but I'm intrigued tell me about mf doom

[00:47:27] that mf doom is famous for is like he's got really good flow and yet just what does the mf

[00:47:33] stand for what I think it stands for I don't remember um but but he'll build towards a rhyme

[00:47:40] and the rhyme is very obvious and then he'll say a different word right he'll break it and it's like

[00:47:44] this sudden break that adds a lot of aesthetic value but that break that that disruption only

[00:47:50] is effective because you have the rhymes to build up to it if every idol fails then the failure

[00:47:57] is no longer exciting you need the threat of the idol the anticipation of the blind side

[00:48:02] for someone to go home with it to be shocking by the time Tiffany goes home with her idol it's not

[00:48:06] shocking at all because we've seen the same thing twice already advantages are much more exciting

[00:48:13] when they work that's the thing with the shot in the dark the shot in the dark every time it

[00:48:16] misses nobody cares it's meaningless but when it hits oh my god and it's effective I feel

[00:48:21] like I saw a picture one time you did not seem to be particularly excited when the shot in

[00:48:26] the dark hit right I was unbelievably pissed but from the perspective of a viewer from the

[00:48:30] perspective of a viewer it decided that you know the anomaly is exciting and if the shot in

[00:48:35] the dark hit every time everyone be like oh this is stupid this is rigged it's just like a you know

[00:48:40] yeah and so similarly the idol is exciting because it gives it uh it works and then when

[00:48:44] it doesn't work that's like an extra change up now we're in this situation where somebody

[00:48:48] actually plays the idol successfully that's the exciting move you know and that I mean

[00:48:53] that's not good TV

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[00:51:02] apply I want to go back to kenzie and kenzie this week we saw that she got blindsided

[00:51:11] when her ally tiffani ended up going out of the game there was some question as to whether or not

[00:51:18] tiffani could have or that kenzie could have beaten tiffani had they both sat in the final three

[00:51:25] and when we look back at season 45 you know i'm reminded a little bit of the relationship

[00:51:32] with d and mama j and i think that there was probably some legitimate question as to who would

[00:51:41] have won had those two women both sat at the end of the game in the final three and much like what

[00:51:47] we saw with kenzie this week uh that mama j went out of the game uh and it was a big blindside

[00:51:56] to d and i'm just wondering not to say that their positioning is similar but in any way was this

[00:52:04] a favor to kenzie this week to have tiffani go out of the game um i don't necessarily i mean

[00:52:15] in the way that we're applying that like it it you know frees up some breathing room for her at

[00:52:19] tribal council i don't really necessarily agree with that it's a favorite of her in the sense that

[00:52:25] it now really magnifies the target on maria as the person who pulled the move and then in a season

[00:52:30] where you know everybody is everybody's status hungry um so that's the sense which is a favor but

[00:52:36] again i mean it really hamstrings i think yeah kenzie because who does kenzie have now as a

[00:52:41] core ally yeah and that's the closest well that i want to circle back to uh kenzie specifically

[00:52:49] but i do feel like in in survivor history when your number one gets taken out in a way that was

[00:52:58] a blindside to you often it can be a good thing especially if it was a person that it was going

[00:53:04] to be hard for you to uh get around uh let me just throw out some examples of kakran and philip

[00:53:12] you know uh the three amigos they play their try they they play all of their idols and they

[00:53:18] get eric to flip and philip ends up going out of the game not to say that philip would have beaten

[00:53:24] in kakran at the end but that was going to that was a thorny thing for kakran to have to untangle

[00:53:31] at some point without having a bitter philip go to the jury instead philip is you know singing

[00:53:38] kakran's praises into the jury and an obstacle out of the way i think about jeremy in second

[00:53:45] chances with savage and that was going to be like ultimately like there was going to be uh

[00:53:50] eventually some sort of like jockeying for position between the two of them and savage

[00:53:56] certainly had his enemies but it was like still an ally for jeremy and then kelly went

[00:54:03] with plays her idol savage goes to the jury singing jeremy's praises and it ends up being

[00:54:08] a great situation for jeremy and of course you know natalie anderson herself uh with with jeremy

[00:54:15] where then you know they're not seen as a pair anymore and you know even you know as i mentioned

[00:54:21] with d last season it's a very it's a good it's a good point um getting your closest ally out

[00:54:29] with no blood in your hand put somebody on the jury who's really going to advocate for you

[00:54:32] which was my logic with emily right so i'm very sympathetic to it the problem that can happen

[00:54:38] is like with my logic and emily you can very quickly find yourself in a position where you're

[00:54:43] somebody who has win equity and you have much much less social capital protect you protect that

[00:54:50] win equity um so i don't know i don't know especially is i don't see kenzie being targeted next

[00:54:59] i don't see so either and i think it's based on the fact that i'm not sure people think

[00:55:02] kenzie has win equity um i just recall like bano typing her up as a mastermind mermaid dragon

[00:55:09] mermaid dragon no more mermaid dragon now is that because maybe like people don't agree

[00:55:15] i don't know but uh you know it's just very sort of like d with somebody who was hyped up to be a

[00:55:20] threat and then people at the merge they got there and like wow she's a threat you know she's

[00:55:25] she's still she's still on people's minds kenzie it was a situation where she showed up

[00:55:29] and everyone's like typhonie is the bigger threat he was the bigger threat um so i'm not sure i'm not

[00:55:36] sure um this is the threat this is the mastermind that bano was talking about the guys will whack a

[00:55:43] doodle no yeah i i i agree so again the the the the i mean it is really a kind of a central

[00:55:52] question of the matter right now which is like taking out the number one ally a necessary move

[00:55:56] to win but also can burn too much social capital i mean i mean whether you're taking it out with

[00:56:03] that intentionally like like jessie cody or its accident you know i think kenzie's path to the

[00:56:08] win is that charlie takes out maria okay char and maybe as soon as this week maybe charlie says

[00:56:16] okay i you know i gotta make i gotta make my move uh maybe it's maybe it's the final six i'm okay

[00:56:21] we gotta like blindside maria here and now charlie is left all alone and then everybody turns but it's

[00:56:31] sort of like a jessie type situation and maybe that's and maybe he doesn't do it considering

[00:56:35] that what you had said earlier about how that fall season ends up i mean it really could be like a

[00:56:40] jessie cody situation ultimately for charlie and maria of charlie feels like okay i don't know if

[00:56:46] i can beat this person uh do i take them out and if so how but then how do i do it in a way

[00:56:53] but charlie may be better positioned to win some of those final immunity challenges than jessie was

[00:57:00] that that's very uh sharp i do think charlie will continue to be immunity threat

[00:57:05] getting to the end of the game a lot of times especially if you're like in the middle

[00:57:09] of the threat level it's like a sandwich like you want people to go on the top

[00:57:14] but also you need some people to go on the bottom too so that like it's not just left at the bottom

[00:57:19] and so the real danger for charlie right now in the game is something he knows and i'm sure kenzie too

[00:57:24] is the ben lis venus final three that all of them know they're on the kind of on the bottom

[00:57:31] they've been frustrated by their lack of credit um and they probably know they don't have much

[00:57:36] win equity going into the going into the the final section of the game so they're they know

[00:57:41] that probably they need to go to the end together if they're if they don't make a big move so somehow

[00:57:47] if you're charlie and kenzie you need to find a way to pick off one of those people on the bottom

[00:57:53] right and that's a very hard thing to do it it's actually one of the hardest moves to make at

[00:57:57] this stage of the game because going for the easy vote it's so tempting to do the harder

[00:58:02] vote make a move but if everyone just keeps making moves those goats get to the end and you

[00:58:06] have no chef so the riddle in the next two votes is to figure out a pretense to get out lis venus

[00:58:13] or ben and i don't know i don't know i think that is the top priority rather than say take out maria

[00:58:20] yeah it's very hard i mean james jones always likes to reference you know tonys

[00:58:26] lions and hyenas and you know if the hyenas could get on the same page uh like one of them

[00:58:33] is could win this thing you know if the four people that i feel like that do not have a chance

[00:58:38] to win and maybe ben ben is probably the best out of those three i think that ben is liked but

[00:58:43] hasn't done anything um which by my own you know uh tribal council specifications i feel like that

[00:58:50] he would probably sweep the jury if he got there with lis and venus um so but you know for

[00:58:58] ben venus q and lis like those four should start to have some conversations

[00:59:05] for sure but one of the amazing uh and terrible things about new era survivor is that the hyenas

[00:59:11] don't even need to get together anymore the lions tear each other apart and then the volt and you

[00:59:15] know they're not hyenas they're vultures you know they just wait around in the sky and then

[00:59:19] they come in land they don't even need to get together to to do the thing yeah you can just

[00:59:24] okay yeah so i was talking about this um on you know we do a patreon call and should i take a lot of

[00:59:30] questions from the listeners we were talking about this a little bit about uh the the way that you

[00:59:36] know these threats go out earlier in earlier and uh it didn't used to be the case that this would

[00:59:42] happen and it really was like survivor maybe other than your season in 45 it's not really

[00:59:50] a battle of alliances after the the merge it really is like a pile on of like okay this person the

[00:59:57] biggest threat now this person the biggest threat now this person is the biggest threat and just

[01:00:00] the the vultures as you very articulately put it that they just get together it's like okay uh

[01:00:07] we're from different tribes but like okay obviously this is the next person to go so take them out

[01:00:13] it's i think it's unfortunately part of the culture change uh that maybe begins at casting

[01:00:18] because a lot of the people i meet and the new era are very wonderful but they're rich they have nice

[01:00:24] jobs they don't need the money wow they want to make a name for themselves on social media

[01:00:30] they want the credit of being a legend and you're a legend by making big moves a lot of times alliances

[01:00:36] are propped on reliable steady people who are not really interested in building a career for

[01:00:40] themselves in reality tv um and who would rather take a sure thing than like you know a spot

[01:00:47] in the certain comcast survivor hall of fame um and i so again when you just have like big

[01:00:53] threat going after big threat going it's part of this this uh this ethos of like everything needs

[01:00:59] to be distinguishing i need to have my resume whereas if you had people who you know like a

[01:01:06] little bit closer than the old the olden days casting i think that you might get more alliance

[01:01:11] based gameplay yeah does the show want alliance based gameplay uh for a while they didn't and i

[01:01:18] think now they do i think they the show has realized that um these voting blocks which were

[01:01:26] such a vaunted discovery in the 30s actually lead to kind of less interesting gameplay when

[01:01:31] people have figured it out and that you need alliances to hold threats together um to make

[01:01:36] it to the end which is the best kind of television so there's there's there's a backswing now yeah

[01:01:41] to get away from the strategy for a second they just like as far as like the conversation about

[01:01:45] what does the show want it's hard because i think they they want two different things and those

[01:01:49] and those two things are sort of at odds with each other i think that they want

[01:01:53] an exciting blindside at tribal council every week uh a um g moment and every single episode of

[01:02:03] i can't believe this person went home but also i think that they want a satisfying winner at the

[01:02:11] end of the season that they the viewers are happy with and say like okay good this person deserves

[01:02:18] to win the game but it's very hard to end 13 14 episodes with exciting tribal council blindsides

[01:02:27] and then ultimately end up with one person that the audience feels like was the person

[01:02:33] that they were happy won the game i mean it's a real it's a real tightrope um so you basically have

[01:02:41] to have a season like second chance where everybody's a everybody's a player or you have to have

[01:02:45] like a really competent winner who can kind of like herd the goats a little bit um but yeah no

[01:02:51] i mean that's that that's the that again one of the big questions you and typically if

[01:02:56] you go back and look you either have a season where it's like oh there was a lot of exciting

[01:03:00] blindsides or there was a really great winner it's it's rare to have both great point great point

[01:03:06] you know earl right like boring season great winner you know because they're the kim so you're

[01:03:12] that's that redemption island yeah redemption island yeah i've been meaning to watch rob on uh

[01:03:17] dealer no deal island don't he's been good i i'm hoping he wins it i'm hoping he wins it no

[01:03:22] spoilers no spoilers still still two more weeks to go on don d i have to skip the vp i'm going

[01:03:28] it's just it's not gonna happen but i i send him my best rob i know i know you're watching this i know

[01:03:33] you're a big fan of mine you know i hope you pull it out i never miss an episode rob as a podcast

[01:03:39] especially when the seal is going to be on yeah yeah um well anyways so the big meta

[01:03:47] the big matter very exciting very very meta would you do any other shows besides survivor

[01:03:53] like boston rom i would i would but maybe a hop skip and a jump for you to go do the traders

[01:04:01] they would never cast me i don't even think i'm getting on 50 i mean like

[01:04:06] but i would certainly do other shows and uh that's something that kind of we're gonna have to what

[01:04:11] about the goat the goat what is the goat just started oh i love it it's great i'm a big fan

[01:04:20] my number my phone number it's uh no i'm just kidding um no i mean reality tv is a lot of fun

[01:04:26] it's a great time um you can make a lot of money doing it so that's uh that's a

[01:04:30] somebody who wants to be a novelist um and you know we'll have to we'll have to see what this

[01:04:35] coming year holds rob that's all i can uh all i can say it's a boom times for reality tv

[01:04:41] interesting okay that was very cryptic yeah it was i don't okay um let's talk about the big

[01:04:48] moment as a writer okay could you have come up with this story that we got this week where we

[01:04:55] have this woman liz who has many food allergies and here she is out on survivor there's nothing

[01:05:05] that they give her that she can eat in fact the woman our protagonist has so many food allergies

[01:05:13] the only thing on earth that she can eat is an applebee's hamburger

[01:05:21] enter the thing that she has craved most in fact applebee's hamburger is not just the only thing

[01:05:27] that she could eat it's also the thing that connects her most to her home to her to her

[01:05:34] loved one to her daughter they go they her and the daughter go to applebees every week as part

[01:05:40] of her survivor watching experience so really the through line in her entire survivor journey

[01:05:47] happens to be an applebee's hamburger so here and wouldn't you the amazing luck can you believe it

[01:05:56] applebees is back a sponsor of survivor and now here comes the chance for liz to be able to

[01:06:05] have the very thing that she has coveted for this entire experience and then one man

[01:06:13] stops her from having the thing that she desires most could you have written this not only stops her

[01:06:20] but refuses to let other people trade places which by the way i think is mechanically incorrect

[01:06:26] i have a gripe with this but um refuses to let other people change places it was brutal first

[01:06:32] of all rob what what is the party line on this what was your reaction to this scene uh well i loved it

[01:06:38] i thought it was just this was uh the epitome of survivor to me i thought this was everything

[01:06:45] that was great about survivor in one moment that i feel like it was transcendent i it was

[01:06:54] it was really a crescendo and uh i guess i'm a bad person because it was hilarious it was

[01:07:00] hilarious i mean to me this was iconic survivor and i feel like that sometimes in survivor the

[01:07:08] things that we remember most the most important moments in the show the things that are that

[01:07:13] really do transcend the game are natalie can i have your jacket yeah yeah this was a no no you

[01:07:21] cannot you like uh i'm leaving i don't even need this jacket where i'm going and no you can't

[01:07:27] have it but listen i mean the premise of survivor has always been not just hot people in bathing

[01:07:33] suits which maybe maybe has been sidelined a little bit but also has been desperation and

[01:07:41] and poverty and suffering so like you know that sells that's a big core part of the game that

[01:07:46] has been kind of neglected in recent years and you see it with liz you see it with the jacket

[01:07:51] like desperation brings people to the lobes and there's a more curiosity in that so i i

[01:07:56] loved it i would love to know your uh perception on and i don't know how like in the weeds you are on

[01:08:03] the social media reaction uh but i feel like that this is a moment that and i don't know if it was

[01:08:11] maybe like just from the meta perspective i think this is interesting to talk about

[01:08:16] that i'm wondering if this moment happened 25 years ago johnny fair play dead grandma is like

[01:08:22] another like a great example of this of just like you know these moments that exist like outside the

[01:08:27] game and okay so that if if if liz did not yell at q would this have been perceived any different

[01:08:37] because what i what i saw on social media the eyes of people that like were like myself just loved

[01:08:43] the what happened but not really not like finger wagging at q or anything like that

[01:08:49] but if i saw if there was any negative reaction to this i saw negative reaction towards liz

[01:08:55] of being entitled of um being you know having a tantrum and being a baby

[01:09:04] listen it is very easy to get pissy about not being chosen to reward from personal experience

[01:09:10] you know i get it but you know you don't have an obligation i think that liz probably would

[01:09:16] have gotten a much better reaction from the fans it sounds like it sounds like she did if she had

[01:09:21] like held her tongue yeah or had been more like reasonable with it like like you know how much

[01:09:26] this means to me like and i can't eat it i'm really disappointed yeah um like that that's hard to

[01:09:32] you know that's hard to rebut um but like to like blow your top and then immediately be like you

[01:09:38] voted for me and just have nothing coming back to have nothing that's painful it reminds

[01:09:44] me a little bit of like the feud with like oan and james uh and who you get a joke my memory

[01:09:50] who was it who was like why won't you work with me and the other person was like you keep voting for me

[01:09:54] was it uh hi and romeo maybe i felt like it was like oan wanted to be looped in the plan

[01:10:00] and james was like you keep voting for me maybe maybe i'm imagining this but yeah i think that

[01:10:05] that was basically that oan uh james didn't tell oan the the plan and then uh i i don't remember

[01:10:11] if oan wrote down james's name at the tribal council like it's like well use homie a fake plan

[01:10:17] either way but circumstances yeah i i do what i really am wondering is if this episode aired in 2005

[01:10:25] okay what would what same exact way what would with the reaction have been more favorable to lizz

[01:10:33] to lizz 2005 would have hated q like saddam hussein like like anybody q would have been

[01:10:43] like on the fbi most wanted list in 2005 so anything that q would have done to alien

[01:10:50] and another person would just be another excuse for the mob so i think that people would have been

[01:10:56] more sympathetic to list for that reason yeah but i think we've come a long way i feel like

[01:11:01] not to pat ourselves on the back but i kind of feel like that um that q where and there was the

[01:11:07] whole discourse coming into the season of jeff had said in talking with me in a couple other

[01:11:12] interviews he didn't want to cast the villains um but i don't like we have q who if q had you

[01:11:20] know done like uh like not given list to burger you know 20 some odd years ago like i think

[01:11:26] that the reaction would have been uh very probably unfavorable uh so i think that like

[01:11:31] like we've come a long way at the same time though lizz would have been what it was when it got

[01:11:36] to flack i mean like like uh like we still today are like like the dingo ate my baby you know

[01:11:42] that's the expression people say and like that woman like was hysterical after losing your child

[01:11:47] like that way i mean if ever there was a time to be to be freaked out is that the same way

[01:11:51] like i'm pissed like that could have been that could have been that easily could have been

[01:11:56] something that people said it like that at the water cooler drue can i run past you my my pitch

[01:12:01] for lizz this week and i did this is what i think lizz should have done i haven't seen anybody poke

[01:12:09] uh like a major hole in it yet i think that lizz should have gone to tribal council

[01:12:15] and stood up and said tiffany you need to play your idol tonight they're blindsiding you maria

[01:12:23] charlie ben q they wrote your name down and you gotta play the idol tonight you're gonna go home

[01:12:30] yeah i mean well first of all she says this after the votes right after the votes are cast

[01:12:35] okay full proof absolutely should have been the move reminds me a little bit of what dean

[01:12:40] did for tommy and 39 i think remind me it's been years so this is like at the uh this is when uh

[01:12:50] karyshma went home uh i believe is that i don't i i'm sorry they have a live tribal uh unfolds

[01:12:57] you're gonna go home yeah and dean was like you should play your idol to vola make things a

[01:13:03] little more spicy absolutely lizz totally should have done that she knows she's on the bottom

[01:13:08] and the reality is she was holding too much of a grudge against q to make what was the very sensible

[01:13:13] strategic move i always say this i think it's very true i think it holds in a lot of cases

[01:13:19] holding a grudge is the trademark of bad gameplay i don't want to say a bad player

[01:13:24] everyone you know we all have that person who puts their buttons but the trademark of

[01:13:28] bad gameplay if you hold a grudge that's always somebody i kind of like highlight like okay

[01:13:32] they're not they're not gonna win no because you gotta be very flexible so it's unfortunate

[01:13:36] that lizz didn't make what you have correctly identified as like the absolute optimal strategic

[01:13:41] move yeah i mean you have to have you have to have forgiveness in survivor also you know

[01:13:48] that somebody like they if they wrong you i don't know if you can just like say that they're

[01:13:54] dead to you and you can never work with them again you know i watched a youtube video recently

[01:14:00] and i know that this is you know of course all wisdom comes from i saw a tick tock i watched a

[01:14:06] youtube video i'll get stuff on you but and and i wish i had like more of the specifics but basically

[01:14:12] like they what they did was they tested like the prisoner's dilemma they said like basically

[01:14:19] like the prisoner's dilemma is the ultimate game of cooperation and basically because in in in

[01:14:26] prisoner's dilemma you work together you do more but if you screw the other person over

[01:14:33] you actually can score more points but then the other person so like in if the prisoner's dilemma

[01:14:40] is every round we choose to work together we both get three points but if i screw you and you

[01:14:44] don't screw me i get five points and we both screw each other we get no points like that's

[01:14:49] basically like how this like on and they tested every single possible strategy there is in the

[01:14:58] ongoing game of prisoner's dilemma of the like sneak attack i'm going to screw you i'll

[01:15:05] screw you every turn i never screw you screw every five turns you know and they they tested

[01:15:11] out every single thing and what they found was that the best the best strategy was a very

[01:15:18] simple one and it was tit for tat of like i don't screw you and then if you screw me

[01:15:25] i screw you back once and then that's it yeah and that's it and then we have to and then we

[01:15:30] have to go back to working together and i just feel like that for uh for tiffani and for kenzie

[01:15:37] they closed the book on q and he was still a number and i think that they probably had the

[01:15:43] like and q wanted to get back to working with them and they closed the door on his face

[01:15:48] not only did they was he still a number but he fully intended to working with them he came to

[01:15:53] them with a hat in hands like a like a child who would you know commit some misdeed i'm coming back

[01:15:58] to like their parents when you get gifted a number like that with no other options why would

[01:16:04] you possibly let it you know tell him screw off so he gets scooped up by your opposition yeah

[01:16:10] like it recalls 45 again because it's the only season survivor i've played but you have these two

[01:16:15] kind of hopeless people in the middle who's everyone has clocked immediately for who they are

[01:16:19] what kind of game they're playing and you have who are the two hopeless people in the middle

[01:16:24] emily and kaleb who emily had had had a reputation smeared during the pre-merge and then kaleb

[01:16:34] was so transparently charismatic and strategic that like everyone you know treated him with you

[01:16:40] know with some distance with some other bits so the point is is that like that's kind of the

[01:16:44] cube situation where you have somebody between two collisions who was totally clocked um and

[01:16:50] instead of i mean granted i did go after kaleb but instead of just like if these two collisions

[01:16:55] are against each other why why why alienate the people in the middle so they'll go the

[01:16:59] opposite direction you want to attract um any way i would do yeah no didn't you take take out the middle

[01:17:07] player christie back in the day i look i'm a big believer in i want to keep hope keep all the

[01:17:14] options open i don't want to like like alienate this person i'm never going to work with you

[01:17:20] yeah you never know i agree i agree completely um i mean just if my my personal gameplay philosophy

[01:17:29] i'm the i feel like i'm the kind of player uh first of all not not a particularly skilled player

[01:17:35] but i'm the kind of player who is going to like if i find a good thing like i'll buy the house

[01:17:39] i'm not gonna rent i'll settle down um in terms of like keeping my options open but

[01:17:45] again q comes to tiffany and comes to kenzie with nothing and they just turned him away out of a grudge

[01:17:52] yeah and tiffany got as clear a to b karma as you can get on survivor so you know it's unfortunate

[01:17:59] and it's kind of a testament to the the real lights out a strategic game that charlie uh and

[01:18:04] maria are playing yeah i mean but there's a world where tiffany and kenzie you know could have

[01:18:08] got back together with q and they could have blindside maria there's a there's a heck of a world i mean

[01:18:15] you're just talking about how they watch 44 where jam jam and carolin like like two dogs barking

[01:18:21] to each other would would bicker constantly and then make up to make the right strategic move

[01:18:25] yeah like like it should have been front of mind um and it's just it's very painful that

[01:18:30] they didn't because i think that that group those three if they had really worked together

[01:18:35] would have went out over sega because kenzie's close to ben ben i mean kenzie i think if ben

[01:18:40] probably could be ben's number one ally at this point um and uh they would have pulled venus over

[01:18:48] over maria because venus maria don't like each other so again it's painful to watch people

[01:18:53] have an open shot and and and toss the ball into the sidelines um go back to the pre-merge from

[01:18:59] this season uh anything on your mind in terms of uh this season's uh less lovable first half

[01:19:09] yeah the terrible first half um supported by a great a great a great merge like some other

[01:19:17] seasons like like carin moe what you mentioned earlier i don't know the interesting interesting

[01:19:21] characters i really get a sense that the dynamic on that early yana beach was was toxic was

[01:19:26] really psychologically tough um and i i feel bad especially for jess who was one of my favorites

[01:19:33] to the pre-merge um it's a shame that we didn't get to see the other tribes go to tribal um yeah

[01:19:39] because it result i mean like i would have loved to see that orange tribe go um and then

[01:19:45] julinsky julinsky is kind of the pre-merge pre-merge star the darlin of the pre-merge oh my god

[01:19:51] it's it's been milked too much the cow is dry you know it's the milk is spoiled i'm ready for it to be

[01:19:56] over but great tv for an episode you know you gotta you gotta appreciate him um i don't know what was

[01:20:02] your assessment of the the pre-merge yeah you know i was trying to like keep on a brave face for

[01:20:07] the first uh three weeks and then that that fourth and final week of albanu like i think really

[01:20:13] think that what um production got wrong was randon he ended up uh like needing to be medically evacuated

[01:20:23] still send yana to tribal council because really they just basically like delayed the execution

[01:20:30] for another week and really we just lost a lot of momentum it took a lot for people to get back

[01:20:36] on board with this season people like at that point were i'm gonna stop watching this is it

[01:20:43] you know survivors over and so people were very very down i know that production is worried about

[01:20:50] okay we're going to run out of people potentially if we get like unlucky and get another medical

[01:20:56] evacuation uh but you know then you don't have to do a double tribal in one episode so i think

[01:21:02] that there were they had other ways around it um you know i don't know if they were trying to

[01:21:06] protect against some sort of like worst case scenario where two more people get medically

[01:21:11] evacuated but it's only a 26 day game it's already day six day seven i think you could have had randon

[01:21:18] go home and still have banu go to tribal council and you know that q says hey but it wasn't going

[01:21:27] to be banu based off of what we've learned about q i don't think that he is a reliable narrator

[01:21:34] no he's not he's retconning everything and i think that the reason why they didn't send him

[01:21:39] to tribal was that like you know they saw the potential like here is banu who literally gets

[01:21:47] in his hands and knees and beseeches god for a second chance and then he's given one divine smiting

[01:21:55] rams in his is smited from god paralyzed and banu gets to make it into other days very biblical

[01:22:01] and so production looked at that and said oh my god now what a story a million hearts he really

[01:22:06] could do it we got to give him another another another window through yeah and then and then

[01:22:11] they lost you know and so it was a high risk high reward strategy to like i mean i don't know if it

[01:22:16] was high reward but i think we would have gotten a very different banu if banu had made it farther

[01:22:21] yeah but they just they totally busted uh where then immediately at the start of the next episode

[01:22:26] banu ends up saying like hey when i went on the journey i said q and tiffani are a tight duo

[01:22:33] and kenzie is the mastermind like all right that's it yeah cancel christmas yeah um but i mean think of

[01:22:41] think of carolin yeah i can imagine a time literally three years ago where carolin like

[01:22:48] everyone else in her archetype would have been savaged by the edit and the viewers

[01:22:52] savaged we've never had a character like carolin because every time people like that come up on

[01:22:56] the show they're edited very uncharitably and made a laughing stock so i think that survivor is really

[01:23:03] eager to capture that like lightning in a bottle again with like somebody who previously they would

[01:23:09] have been very vicious too uh and maybe they saw that with with banu and it didn't it didn't pan out

[01:23:14] yeah you know and we all had to suffer the consequences for uh four and a half hours drew

[01:23:18] something else that's been on my mind this season it feels like to me that the people that

[01:23:24] have gone on the journeys this season and i have like been my my take on the journeys was

[01:23:29] you're coming into your season don't go on the journeys journeys are bad uh more to lose on

[01:23:35] the journey than there is to gain but i really feel like in survivor 46 that the players have

[01:23:42] gone on the journeys and have made some tight bonds uh i feel like that tevin and maria really

[01:23:49] you know found a bond it didn't really manifest yet with ben and liz when they went there with banu

[01:23:57] but then we saw the six get made at the journey of the cross-tribal lines between tim and hunter

[01:24:05] and q i know in your season you went on a journey it did not seem like uh there was that type of

[01:24:14] relationship building that happened and i'm wondering if uh that is more of a factor of 46 or

[01:24:21] that i mean you spoke about how you felt like that bruce played things very you know close to the

[01:24:26] vest uh when you went to the journey yeah was it more of a issue of like uh that uh you know a

[01:24:34] bruce didn't want to necessarily play ball well i mean it was interesting because at the journey

[01:24:41] we had three different strategies going in um so brandon just told us everything which i thought

[01:24:47] was shocking um and bruce gave absolutely nothing and i lied about everything in the tribe dynamic

[01:24:52] which is why you can real rewatch 45 if you if you someday in the you know the far future

[01:24:57] survivors chance and you're like the good old days um you'll notice that rebut never is shown

[01:25:01] describing their tribe dynamics um in public because we lied about it constantly right so they

[01:25:06] didn't have any actual footage that couldn't be used to explain it like they did for the

[01:25:09] other ones so anyways that was my tactic um the journey did not actually go well for me socially

[01:25:17] because bruce came back from that journey really with the heebie jeebies about me and he he he really

[01:25:23] buried me to his uh his whole tribe then we got together at the merge feast i was like bruce what

[01:25:29] the fuck you know like why at like at the merge feast i was like why did you why did you do

[01:25:32] that to me though brandon told me everything um so again the the jarenis are really about

[01:25:39] advantages they're about advantages and if you're lucky enough to get some kind of social compact

[01:25:43] that emerges it's a flu you know rihanna and and shan okay great social bond that happened in

[01:25:49] the journeys they got lucky but don't bank on it the journeys are going to hurt you socially

[01:25:53] as often as they help you socially you know it's really about the advantage and everything

[01:25:57] else is a bonus um i don't i don't think it's some uh like you think of exile the exile alliance you

[01:26:05] know here was an alliance that bonded on the journey and then it turned into nothing nothing

[01:26:09] came of it you could probably count on one hand with three fingers the amount of times these

[01:26:15] these cross-trial alliances have actually manifested into anything yeah but don't you think

[01:26:19] it's a good idea like don't you think it could work well look at jelinski you know he goes

[01:26:25] on the journey and his options are either alienate two other people or um lose his vote you know his

[01:26:32] your options like hunter or do the challenge and lose making everyone think that you probably have

[01:26:37] something because you're so good at challenges we're not going to believe you or go home with

[01:26:42] nothing and then i have to have the same problem like the social consequences are so

[01:26:47] overbearing that like i feel like it's it's kind of survivorship bias to like look at the

[01:26:52] few times the journey is going well and then like oh you know clearly it must be of social

[01:26:57] benefit to go on the journey yeah the journey's about the advantages but i just know from uh when

[01:27:02] i interviewed mariah this season okay one of the reasons that mariah felt like that at the merge

[01:27:07] that she was a target was because she had not been on a journey and she did not have anybody

[01:27:12] feeling like hey oh no like i've got a good thing with mariah like no there was nobody like

[01:27:18] even nobody there was nobody really on sega that was really going to bat for her and there was nobody

[01:27:24] from the other tribes that was really trying to uh that was invested in seeing her stick around

[01:27:30] you know and i love mariah but if if the problem for having no one to bat for you was

[01:27:37] it was because i didn't go on a journey like you have bigger problems you're not going to build

[01:27:42] a bond in 15 minutes of talking with each other on a journey that is going to save you an

[01:27:47] migratory part of why the three tribe format is bad is because it buries the underdogs right if

[01:27:53] you're on the bottom of your tribe as soon as you get to migratory you're tossed if you don't lose

[01:27:57] when that challenge so i don't know i mean we don't spend that much time together on the

[01:28:01] journeys anymore you know it's not like exile island where you got a weekend together like

[01:28:04] something like honeymoon um the just the two of you out in the out in the wilderness um it's

[01:28:10] like 15 minutes max yeah so i i i think that i would love for it to be true i would make the

[01:28:15] game a lot more fluid but alas i think it is i think it is um kind of somebody looking for

[01:28:20] a night looking for explanations okay i want to go back to you drew uh let's go back let's go

[01:28:25] back to survivor 45 what's what's the biggest misconception that people have about you

[01:28:31] and your game from 45 i don't know um i you know it's it there's frustrating a little

[01:28:43] bit because i feel like i did not have a coherent story on 45 you know which is one thing i mean

[01:28:51] you tell me if you think i'm wrong on anything or the fan reception yeah which is one thing if you

[01:28:56] don't have a lot of time you know like you're you're under edited but to be edited very very

[01:29:02] prominently and not to have a coherent story can be very frustrating because it basically just

[01:29:07] means that like anyone can make any judgments about you you know in your game um and

[01:29:13] you're you're there and yet it's not really articulated like the kelly move i was pretty proud

[01:29:17] of the kelly move we got we got almost no information about it i felt on 45 like they didn't know what to

[01:29:23] do with me and they wanted to make me seem like a little silly like a little foolish um and yet

[01:29:30] they didn't really have like the material to do that because like i wasn't getting negative

[01:29:33] like second person perspective i was exceeding strategically um and so i was kind of a middle

[01:29:39] yeah so i feel like what they were going for for your story uh and you know it's up to the audience

[01:29:45] to say whether they accomplished it was that i think that we sort of like got in the very first

[01:29:50] episode about how you know you were uh you know somewhere between uh drew and beseal and you were

[01:30:01] you know the guy who you know you're not used to being invited to the party but here you

[01:30:06] are now part of the party we saw during guys night we saw there with your relationship with

[01:30:12] austin that you were sort of like getting to be experience this uh party adventure what you will

[01:30:23] and you know uh you know you had a little bit of like a growth arc in terms of what i got

[01:30:31] yeah then you get any got too confident is pledge class president maybe yeah and then i did i did

[01:30:38] i'll be the first to admit it um the thing about survivor and why i'm so hesitant to answer that

[01:30:44] question is that like i have no idea what i'm really like how i perceive i i have no idea so maybe i

[01:30:51] maybe i was like i was edited you know i'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt

[01:30:55] because i felt like everyone else out there was edited fairly um more or less that bruce

[01:30:59] got a tough deal um a survivor i mean it's painful because like i this was my dream for a decade and

[01:31:08] i got so close to achieving it and i failed and i'll never get the chance to succeed it will never

[01:31:12] happen so that's a hard hard thing to deal with i'm extremely grateful though for the

[01:31:18] opportunity to play yeah i can remember going out of the game and at my final words you know

[01:31:24] being very very done with the whole experience they were like can you give us a metaphor and

[01:31:27] i was like no um yeah metaphors are over but i was like maybe i'll get the chance to grow

[01:31:34] i can confidently say that despite what i thought at the time and for the months afterwards

[01:31:37] like huge growth experience i'm very grateful yeah well drew i hate to hear you like uh describe

[01:31:46] the experience like that because there's so many there's so many of us who have gone through this

[01:31:51] and i think that like myself and and steven is probably another like great example of this

[01:31:58] that yeah there are only what are we at 46 and 44 different people have gotten to have

[01:32:05] the experience that you described and go talk to a number of those 44 people and they'll tell

[01:32:11] you they have all sorts of like oh but i didn't get he's shown my my they didn't show my win

[01:32:16] the right way so there's probably like a total of like eight people that feel like yeah they nailed it

[01:32:22] i got i got exactly what i wanted they nailed it everything 10 out of 10 no notes but you know

[01:32:29] you you know got to you got to go and and have this experience and you did very you did very

[01:32:36] very well and you know you're going to go and and you're doing all all of these other things

[01:32:44] and i feel like i say this with so many of the young people that come through survivor now

[01:32:49] this is going to be a footnote in your career at the end they may not even look that the best

[01:32:56] case scenario they don't even talk about survivor in your eulogy in your obituary it's a footnote

[01:33:05] yeah very true um what one thing i look at us now look at us now on a podcast who would

[01:33:13] would have thought that was possible yeah so you know it's uh doesn't go you know and really

[01:33:21] my first time went other than winning the game went like as as perfect as it could have gone

[01:33:26] and then i got i got the fortunate enough to go back to have it be a not so great experience so

[01:33:33] i had that a lot of i could have i was up i could have left the casino i went back in and

[01:33:38] lost it all rob you you still you came out still pretty it's fine even you know the further

[01:33:44] you get away from it i think the more perspective you get on it so i know it still stings it's only

[01:33:49] a couple months since it's been over but uh like yeah i think that the experience will only

[01:33:57] be better at the further out you get from it for sure um if i had the fans one thing i think

[01:34:04] the fans didn't understand i had to think about your question a little bit okay and not that's so much

[01:34:09] me specifically as a general general point i have a problem with the gamebot archetype it doesn't

[01:34:15] really make sense to me the gamebot what the gamebot really is are young white men with glasses

[01:34:22] right not always not his glasses sometimes without glasses like spencer uh but was i really a gamebot

[01:34:31] i mean i cried i talked trash i had a temper tantrum a huge portion of my conventionals are not

[01:34:38] about strategy at all no i'm not sure i really was a gamebot and then i look at season 46 and

[01:34:43] there's somebody on 46 who is 100 strategy minded who has built very poor social relationships that

[01:34:51] they don't put effort into upkeep um and whose all their content is about it's about

[01:34:57] strategy and frustration of people not thinking strategically but thinking emotionally

[01:35:02] and i'm you can put together who this is but they are beloved and they're not seeing the gamebot at

[01:35:06] all so i just think that's very interesting that the gamebot doesn't really make sense doesn't

[01:35:11] really make sense that's my one only only correction for the record yeah i don't know what

[01:35:17] could a future person uh who comes in because i think that you are a very funny person a very

[01:35:24] fun personality so what could somebody do they just have to be even wackier to avoid that perception

[01:35:33] there's no pleasing the fans i mean the fans are like a mob well can i tell you okay so that this is

[01:35:39] something and i think that this is relevant when we bring q back into this okay that the more you

[01:35:45] care about what the fans think the less they like you and and go go poll and read it or something like

[01:35:54] this and do a poll who is the who is the most popular person among the fans that probably somewhere in

[01:36:00] the very very high they're gonna is gonna poll Courtney Yates yeah does not care who would

[01:36:07] not talk to one of these people if they were on fire and that is why she is beloved

[01:36:15] and very funny of course for various reasons but the less but but i think you know very does not

[01:36:22] you know really care so much what you think about her or or them and q i think is also a great

[01:36:30] example of that great exam i love q q is like q q is a discovery a renaissance you know he's everything

[01:36:39] so it's a very good point you know and it's a good point for future contestants because i know you're

[01:36:43] out here your patrons you're listening to rhap you know don't set an hour on on social media before

[01:36:50] you post give it an hour just to make sure it's the right thing to post no don't don't worry

[01:36:53] about the fans i think it's very hard for the young people that come through survivor now

[01:36:59] because you know we started this conversation i was talking about survivor sucks and i would go there

[01:37:03] and look at it but you know you'd have to you it was not easy to find that stuff there were websites

[01:37:10] you could go to and like other than you know some of these instances when people like in the early

[01:37:15] days had like tabloids writing about them or whatever but for the most part that the survivor

[01:37:21] discourse was very much contained in one place and now if you are a person that's on you know

[01:37:28] survivor and you know we all are just like on the phones constantly the notifications find you

[01:37:36] and there is no way to you know disengage return or other than like deleting your accounts or

[01:37:42] anything like that so i think in some ways while the show is not nearly as popular as it was then

[01:37:49] the like uh the niche audience is like so concentrated and finds you even if you do not

[01:37:59] seek it out yeah totally totally agree um and it's something that i think uh i think people

[01:38:06] should be aware of before they go you know i personally i did not feel like a huge mental

[01:38:11] toll like from the from the fan environment i mean it consumed a lot of time because you want to

[01:38:15] you want to stay and you were also very distracted with your school true i was very out of the

[01:38:21] the environment like i didn't get recognized all season out here yeah um but i think a lot of people

[01:38:28] really struggle uh mentally with the fan reaction with the omnipresence with like getting recognized

[01:38:34] which kind of reinforces your celebrity even though you're you're i don't really think you are

[01:38:38] um and and it can be a mental toll so you know in a way being away from survivor was

[01:38:46] or living in england was very fortunate because like yeah i i don't know any alumni you know i

[01:38:50] didn't get to go to the events but like i also got a lot of distance that made it like

[01:38:54] very easy to like okay well that was a thing that happened online and not in my real life

[01:38:59] you know should survivor almost like a fraternity like the you know the ones that would have

[01:39:05] parties that you would maybe get invited to um and then maybe they do do this but should they

[01:39:11] have some sort of like alumni big brother big sister mentor that gets attached gets assigned to

[01:39:19] the current players you know i don't know i mean they haven't they've been trying you know they

[01:39:26] contacted a lot of former players to like give some you know suggestions about how to process

[01:39:30] going home and things like that which was very helpful um and to write them up in a little

[01:39:34] packet but i hate i mean you know i kind of the dark side of the industry is that like with the

[01:39:42] returning players it's it's self-interested because i can imagine that survivor 50 you get voted out

[01:39:48] by your big yeah oh my god my mentor votes me out listen the if you are enjoying season 46

[01:39:58] you should be very excited for season 50 because all these people are great friends who hang out

[01:40:03] all the time and there are going to be betrayals that will never be recovered from and you know they'll

[01:40:09] probably give you somebody that's like in your archetype so it's like all right drew here's

[01:40:13] your mentor cocker in okay great and then and then you go on survivor 50 and cocker in is like

[01:40:19] okay now i know this guy's all this guy's insecurities and tells follow me everybody

[01:40:27] life is tough and a lot of your biggest challenges you got to get through alone

[01:40:30] get through alone it's really not that big of a deal some people never recover from survivor

[01:40:35] you know there are some people who who never never got through it it's but most people do yeah it's

[01:40:40] it's the best and worst thing that's happened to so many people that i know

[01:40:45] yeah i'm sure i i i don't know anybody and i know i know people that's the case so i'm sure

[01:40:51] i'm absolutely sure yeah uh anything else on your mind drew that you want to talk about

[01:40:56] survivor or otherwise anything else on on the survivor brain i don't know it's a it's a good

[01:41:03] season it's been a while since we had had a had a had a had emerged this solid makes up for a bad

[01:41:08] beginning i like it what about 45 45 was good um but 45 i felt like quality was very very steady

[01:41:17] you know like like we didn't have like highs and lows in terms of like i would say that i think

[01:41:22] that's a good point i think this season has had higher highs and lower lows than 45 which was very

[01:41:28] solid all the way through yeah totally and i think that with so caramowan i think survivor 46 was

[01:41:37] cryptocurrency yeah it was like bitcoin you know we're up we're down we're we're rich we're poor

[01:41:46] the thing about a season like that is that like i remember like caramowan people forget this

[01:41:51] caramowan's merge is great yes it's big move after big move great personalities lots of interpersonal

[01:41:57] drama it's a great period and the season is disliked because of a horrible um pre-merge so

[01:42:04] you know it's it's it's tough to remember like which side people are going to remember and like

[01:42:08] which which which half of this season um but yeah i like it a lot it could be better than 45 i think

[01:42:14] i think they're pretty similar quality wise um and i'm so grateful to get to get the chance

[01:42:19] to talk with you about it all yeah i'm so happy that you were up for doing this jude you watch

[01:42:23] anything else besides i know you that you're very much into your studies but does do you have time

[01:42:28] for any other tv yeah we know i was watching the trader um last season just because it was such a

[01:42:33] it was such an event yes i didn't care for it a little itchy no it wasn't a fan i mean if

[01:42:39] they if they call me i loved it uh uh let's be clear but but uh i don't know if i've been

[01:42:45] watching anything else on uh on tv i'm really i'm survivors the only one i stick to you got a

[01:42:50] recommendation rob hit me up i watched a little bit of amazing race okay if it's what about

[01:42:54] scripted shows i know that you you know are you know uh you know books are your thing but

[01:43:03] are there any like uh scripted television shows that you watch scripted tv on that i i like i

[01:43:09] didn't like succession i watched that oh okay no i wasn't a fan of succession why not the characters

[01:43:16] and my cameras someone to know the characters were so bad that i couldn't enjoy so unlikeable

[01:43:22] so unlikable i i'm very i love to i'm very i get immersed in things and if it's just misery

[01:43:27] and satire and nihilism it's it's i'm not going to sit through like 40 hours of television

[01:43:32] fray i love the cop shows i like uh elzbeth i liked elzbeth oh okay let me say i love the

[01:43:38] cop shows like procedural type shows like white collar psych those are my absolute favorites

[01:43:46] i get down for a little law and order svu but he sometimes it's too icky i like i like the cop

[01:43:51] shows though okay so those those are my uh those are my those are my go-tos if it's not if it's

[01:43:54] not survive what are you gonna do once the semester's over that's a great question um what am i

[01:44:01] gonna do this summer so i've kind of been toying with i have some cameo money that i've accrued

[01:44:06] i've kind of been told what do you think about roasting people like q what does on cameo do you

[01:44:11] roast people in cameo yeah i mean what do you what do you think of these survivor 46 people being

[01:44:15] on cameo during the season bullshit okay because like it's it's garbage because

[01:44:23] it's one thing to like post on twitter he was a message for you big mistake you shouldn't have

[01:44:29] done that okay that's a great sound effect i wonder did you slow that down or did he

[01:44:34] really say no that was from a personal roast that steven fishback bought for me from q telling me

[01:44:41] i was wrong about q's game when i said that q was not trying to quit he was had a lot of strategy

[01:44:49] that he was pulling off a move well listen you gotta be very nice to q because q's gonna be back

[01:44:53] so you gotta be nice to q right listen the thing about the thing about it is is that it's one

[01:44:58] thing to post during the episodes or like live stream the episode you'll build you'll get more

[01:45:02] followers okay that's a that's against that's against rules but cameo cameo you're making money

[01:45:08] your your you're profiting in a way that is against your contract is not allowed and nobody

[01:45:13] else has been able to do it's really it's really not right and i'm astounded it's still out i'm

[01:45:19] not gonna like if q is donating all the proceeds to charity is q okay uh all right it's still

[01:45:28] here i don't care i don't he's gonna get a tax write off for that it's not allowed

[01:45:33] um under no circumstances um yeah i'm not as crazy though that's definitely that's definitely

[01:45:39] shocking mm-hmm yeah yeah all right um well drew this was so fun uh please come back

[01:45:46] oh if you'll have me right i hope i was interesting enough yes um but yeah what are you doing

[01:45:51] the summer oh this summer oh yeah so i'm thinking of doing something crazy on my cameo money

[01:45:55] going on some kind of big trip to the middle of nowhere i watched these youtube videos of like

[01:45:59] travel yeah and there's this like iron ore train that goes through the sehera and you can like ride

[01:46:04] on top of it um in the middle of the desert really i was like god that would be really cool why do

[01:46:09] you want to do that is that like to write a novel just the adventure of it rob like like i am

[01:46:15] somebody who right or wrong i never feel like you're built different the opposite i am insecure

[01:46:23] about the fact that i've like you know like uh what's the expression like when they made me they

[01:46:28] broke the mold and then beat the mold maker like like i always worry like oh my god like you know

[01:46:33] we gotta pump things up i gotta be i gotta do more yeah um and so like adventure is kind of like that

[01:46:38] like i haven't i haven't done enough like i have to go challenge myself in some new way

[01:46:42] and it's a personal flaw but it often manifests now will you go solo will you bring your

[01:46:48] girlfriend will you bring your brother like a will you take austin i mean like if i was gonna

[01:46:54] go somewhere crazy um like like the african one that one's probably not gonna happen i was thinking

[01:46:58] about kilmen jarrow you know i was thinking about um going to like uh going to like the middle

[01:47:03] east or taiwan you know so i would probably i might bring austin we went to korea together

[01:47:08] so it's on the cards but my other plans um for this summer i have to learn german

[01:47:14] somebody next time well this isn't a cover story for if you go off the grid for a couple of months

[01:47:20] is it no i i mean i'll be where you uh nobody can reach me but i'm gonna i'll be on the iron ore

[01:47:28] train across the sahara desert yeah it takes about uh 26 days to get from uh kairou 39 with uh 39

[01:47:39] with travel um i'm gonna learn german i have to do that um yeah okay the other thing the other thing

[01:47:46] this is i'm definitely doing this is that i don't know if you know this rob but there are huge

[01:47:52] lakes in like the yukon territory do you know about this like great bare lake great slave lake

[01:47:56] no they're like amazing natural great great slave lake they have they do it's um it's not my

[01:48:05] like it's named after the the kree uh kree uh tribe you know but but still bad name there was

[01:48:12] like a satellite that crashed there i want to go check that out so that's something i am doing

[01:48:16] this summer i'm gonna road trip up wow i'm going to konfilm festival uh in a way whoa yeah yeah uh i'm

[01:48:23] gonna be in uh be in us for some business next week too business all kinds of stuff in the

[01:48:29] broan true just uh just in capri what a what a mogul yeah i know well that's the nice thing about

[01:48:35] living in uh living in europe you know like i take literally my ticket to uh uh naples was 10

[01:48:42] dollars 10 dollars and i bought it i bought it that week and i was it's very easy to adventure

[01:48:47] very easy wow let the trade off for nada i'm not getting to go to the uh r h a p chicago

[01:48:52] live shop which is okay all right well i mean uh it's a tough ticket to get yeah it is hot hot in

[01:48:59] demand okay uh drew where could people keep up with you and and and what kind of cameos do you do

[01:49:07] if people can keep up on me on instagram and twitter i don't know my handles so just like search me um

[01:49:12] it'll come up yeah like you're missing 45 cameo i do just general cameos i get uncomfortable

[01:49:18] in cameo because i feel very guilty that like people are paying for a a message from me you know it

[01:49:23] doesn't i don't know what to say i don't know what to do like sometimes i'll announce like people

[01:49:28] that people are having a baby i've had a couple for this and like yeah you know honored uh

[01:49:33] honored that you thought of me but like holy shit like like i don't know like i don't know what to

[01:49:38] say so cameo is very scary if you want one of uh of me being awkward sometimes being

[01:49:45] charismatic it's like a it's like a 60 40 hit rate between the two uh you can go do that

[01:49:50] you can go get that out yeah go go check me out there and buy my novel when it comes out eventually

[01:49:55] yeah what's the um lead up to that where when we can we expect that uh it would it would be great to

[01:50:05] get the novel done by the end of the year is the wow ideally get a big five publisher the

[01:50:10] thing about publishing i've worked in publishing a little bit at this point and it's a dying industry

[01:50:14] so they make most of their publishing decisions based on social media following which is

[01:50:18] unbelievable but i have a great social media following do the survivor so thank you thank you

[01:50:23] the fans you're really going to team me up here in about a year's time and we'll see what happens

[01:50:27] okay all right well drew this was so fun uh so thankful uh for you for being here and then of

[01:50:33] course drew and all the survivors will read the comments after the podcast is over so uh please

[01:50:39] be nice in the comment section as a lot of me a lot of famous people are reading your comments

[01:50:44] here on you and then also uh we're not done yet this week uh we got kicked off with james jones

[01:50:51] and then had steven your friend in mind steven fishback on the know it all's uh plus my exit

[01:50:56] interview with tiffany but on monday brice isa is going to join us for club condo and we'll have a

[01:51:02] lot of fun going through all of the wild moments between the the battle for liz's love on social

[01:51:09] media from apple bees and maybe some other fast casual restaurants that are stepping into the fray

[01:51:16] and much more coming up on monday on club condo so thank you so much for joining us take care everybody

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