Talking Survivor 46 w/ Omar Zaheer

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[00:01:29] conditions apply see website for details. Hey everybody what's going on Rob Cicernino back with

[00:01:36] you with RHAP's continuing coverage of Survivor 46's post game and here with us a real treat

[00:01:46] great friend of the pod please welcome back call him cockatoo boy it's Omar Zaheer. Omar

[00:01:52] how are you? Cacah I am great. I'm so happy to be here covering the end of such an iconic

[00:02:00] messy as hell season and thank you for having me maybe we'll get messy as hell.

[00:02:03] Okay I hope so don't threaten me with a good time okay because we're back here live and it's

[00:02:10] been a busy day today I have conducted five exit interviews here with the Survivor 46 final

[00:02:18] five the video of all of those are now posted on our YouTube channel the audio if it's not out

[00:02:25] yet should be up soon if you want to check that out so I have some thoughts off of my exit

[00:02:30] interviews also all the exit press with the other outlets should be completed by this point

[00:02:36] so we know a lot about what the Survivor 46 cast is thinking and then last night Jesse

[00:02:43] Lopez came by here and we talked about it all if you want to see our right

[00:02:49] live in the heat of the moment recap from last night. Omar how are you? I'm doing great

[00:02:56] I have been enjoying the season I've been having a great time listening to all the coverage and

[00:03:02] I'm excited to get into last night's episode because it really was a bit of a roller coaster

[00:03:06] and you buried the lead with the biggest news from these exit interviews that Liz is not

[00:03:11] in fact a millionaire. Yes that big news today. Does that mean she's a millionaire? No Liz says

[00:03:16] that it was stolen valor she is not you know I don't know how many other people in you know

[00:03:23] well-known people might be lying about how rich they are but Liz add Liz to the list.

[00:03:29] Yeah she's like Russell Hans but let's uh probably she is like Russell Hans

[00:03:33] that's interesting Russell Hans too now Russell Hans I don't know necessarily

[00:03:38] if he was ever going to reveal because he did he made it to the final travel council

[00:03:42] he did not reveal that he actually did it for ego though Liz did it for strategy because she's

[00:03:48] a strategic queen. Yeah so Liz was telling people in the game that she was a millionaire

[00:03:55] and it was talked about quite a bit on the show but in her confessionals she says that she

[00:04:01] was it was all part of her strategy but they hid this from us Omar. Yeah but you know

[00:04:07] what maybe she meant she had him she was a millionaire in terms of hearts and then she

[00:04:11] already had it whereas Banu had to get it you know. Maybe yeah my heart maybe now does Sia

[00:04:16] know this somebody needs to be like flagging down Sia and tell her like Sia distribute her

[00:04:22] funds appropriately because otherwise maybe maybe Liz would be the raw the truly robbed one

[00:04:27] in terms of missing out on this money that she could have been getting because everyone

[00:04:31] thought she was rich. Yeah okay so big story one just one of the big stories that we're

[00:04:36] talking about at this hour we are taking your questions here we are live here streaming

[00:04:42] across our social channels so please would love to hear what you want us to talk about here

[00:04:49] today. Congratulations to Kenzie had a very nice chat with Kenzie this morning who a very

[00:04:57] deserving winner I really you know there's a lot of controversy this morning about

[00:05:02] Charlie and Maria's vote but I just don't want it to get overshadowed about how I don't think

[00:05:07] we've had even last season where it was five to three Austin versus D we haven't had in the new

[00:05:13] era a real battle over who should have won in the final three. We haven't 43 but that was not

[00:05:22] triggered but that wasn't I mean I guess so I didn't really think about 43 but that was more

[00:05:29] in the audience the jury was not conflict it wasn't like a close vote like that.

[00:05:33] Yeah and this one also I loved it because well Kenzie is a very deserving winner so

[00:05:37] congratulations Kenzie. I think that Charlie and Kenzie were both presented on the show

[00:05:41] as not really being very flawed players they just had different styles they were coming at

[00:05:45] it from different parts of the game and both of them had a very compelling argument to win

[00:05:49] so it's like which one do you value more you know Charlie seemed like throughout the

[00:05:52] game that he had social and strategy Kenzie had more of the social aspect from what we

[00:05:57] saw in the game but obviously that was enough to like maybe overshadow Charlie's game but I

[00:06:02] think that and Ben also you know he had his moments too but obviously it was a between the

[00:06:06] two of them for the the final crown but I think this was very similar in my mind to like

[00:06:12] Aubrey Michelle or even maybe a Sandra Parvati. Yeah well let's talk that through a little bit

[00:06:18] um so Aubrey Michelle I certainly see that and you know the issue I think with Aubrey

[00:06:25] and Michelle was I feel like that Michelle did not pop on the tv screen did not get the

[00:06:32] edit that Kenzie got and it took a while before the audience I think fell in love with Michelle

[00:06:40] and you know it's hard though but I feel like that Aubrey her relationships with the jury were

[00:06:48] were not as strong like I think that Charlie actually had a better social game than Aubrey did.

[00:06:52] Yeah although you know it's hard to say because with Aubrey like it seems like

[00:06:56] a few poison apples may have spoiled the well there with uh the athlete alliance but

[00:07:02] I think that with Michelle as well like she she eduically had it which Kenzie also did as

[00:07:06] we love to talk about on the show I know Stephen would be um loving that but you know

[00:07:12] her her it just seems like her social pull in the game did allow more tangible moves than

[00:07:17] we saw Michelle pull off in Co-Rong not to say that Michelle is not deserving because she

[00:07:21] obviously was as well and we saw her play a strong game when she came back but even

[00:07:26] Kenzie's social pull with for someone like Hunter was enough for him to trust her trust

[00:07:31] in her so much that he didn't play an idol you know and I think that that's where her

[00:07:35] social game translated into strategy that we actually did see on the show. I feel like that

[00:07:40] Charlie was such a well-rounded player I feel like that he was just uh so well balanced

[00:07:47] if I was going to like rate him I feel like he gets like at least sevens eights across the board

[00:07:54] in terms of being a social player and a strategic player and a physical player but I think that

[00:08:00] Kenzie's strength in the social game ultimately was the difference maker where she's somebody

[00:08:07] who's like I think a nine or a ten in that one facet of the game and she won challenges

[00:08:13] and she certainly like was in on the strategic planning but I think that that part

[00:08:20] is the most important part in the new era. I actually I mean I think that that's been the

[00:08:25] most important part since day dot as they say in Australia howdy I mean not good day

[00:08:31] good day Australia why are you brushing up on your Australian? No reason you know what anyone

[00:08:38] who's been a fan of Shannon's podcast knows that I have done an Australian accent since

[00:08:42] also day dot so this is nothing new. Yeah okay but yeah I would lose that also.

[00:08:49] You would lose the Australian accent. Accent just the accent okay gotcha yeah but you know even

[00:08:56] since since your season Rob Amazon did Jenna not have a much stronger you know okay so I

[00:09:04] happen to like so last night I tweeted Malcolm voted for Denise in the midst of it. 10 out of

[00:09:11] 10 no no. And I did check out the survivor subreddit today and I went to see what are

[00:09:16] people talking about today and that tweet was up there and then somebody in the comments said

[00:09:24] well Rob voted for Jenna and I was like how dare you? How dare you? And I really I didn't

[00:09:31] want to have like cognitive dissonance and I really was trying to think about this and really

[00:09:35] you know there was a glimmer in Jenna's eye that I saw when she won the final three immunity

[00:09:42] challenge that really won no in all seriousness. You're doing a spin Rob you were having your

[00:09:48] hands up like this you could look over at her or maybe that's why you lost. That is fair

[00:09:52] Matthew but Matthew was not my number one throughout the game there was a point and

[00:09:59] and maybe I am a bitter juror. Maybe I'll own that but I felt very disappointed in Matthew of

[00:10:05] like hey me and you we're gonna go to the end and I didn't like that Matthew wanted to do

[00:10:13] his own thing and is like wait you're gonna go to the end without me? You're gonna like

[00:10:17] throw this challenge and not even try to win it for us? That was a really good move for him

[00:10:23] not gonna lie. It was a bad move for him he would have got more votes against me.

[00:10:28] You think so? No way. But so and to me that was a mystery another misread of the whole

[00:10:35] situation and Jenna certainly had like low moments where she wanted to quit the game but

[00:10:41] didn't think we were going to do survivor amazon breakdown today but you know Jenna

[00:10:45] and I were Jenna and I were close friends throughout the game so I guess you do you do

[00:10:50] have a point of the person that like I had like great moments with Jenna and I was also at war

[00:10:56] with Jenna but at the end of the day that you know Jenna was generally well much more well

[00:11:01] liked across the board. Yeah I mean I felt I think even you know all the way back then and

[00:11:07] and beyond I think the social game has always been the most important thing in terms of

[00:11:11] people will always vote for who they like the best and then they'll find the reasons to

[00:11:15] do that based on the framework of the social contract I guess you could say and this this

[00:11:20] year's social contract is a lot more unhinged because these people are wild so you might get

[00:11:25] things like the glint in their eye at a fire making challenge as opposed to something that's

[00:11:29] more digestible to the grander audience. Yeah to me I feel like when we take a look at

[00:11:34] these six seasons in the new era I really feel like it's really this incredible social

[00:11:41] game but it's kind of like it has to be like a little bit hidden for one reason or another

[00:11:47] especially like when we look at like the through line of specifically Kenzie and then Jam Jam

[00:11:55] Marianne for sure you know I think Gabler in a way was somebody who that you know

[00:12:03] people don't love Gabler as a winner but the people who played with him tell you like oh

[00:12:07] he was like you know so much fun to be around and they really enjoyed Gabler's company

[00:12:14] I think that that's the reason. I don't know Erica well but she's got a glimmer too. I assume

[00:12:23] you know that there's something there also in terms of like having like some kind of charisma

[00:12:29] so I think that that's and Dee I feel is different Dee I think is more of like a

[00:12:34] traditional survivor winner of somebody who like really shines in all the facets

[00:12:40] of the game but I think for these other players they had this social game but

[00:12:45] for one reason or another they were able to camouflage it as compared to like a Caleb

[00:12:50] who's somebody who has no camouflage and he's rizzes off the charts but it's that's a

[00:12:56] disaster. Yeah but the thing is I disagree about Dee I think that she is a classic

[00:13:01] winner in some ways but she still had cover she still had camouflage she was still able to

[00:13:06] operate within an alliance. She was insulated I don't think she was camouflaged. You don't

[00:13:11] think she was camouflaged? No I don't think that Dee had a camouflage. Well what I just

[00:13:14] felt like she had like she's hunting in a pack with you know Drew who is exceptionally

[00:13:19] strategic and well spoken you have Julie who has an exceptional social game you have Austin

[00:13:24] who's a very well-rounded competitor very similar to Charlie actually and so within that

[00:13:28] framework she doesn't stand out above all the rest as so much more superior and can kind of

[00:13:34] hide within that little pack hunting mentality and I think that the rest of these winners as

[00:13:38] well you know Mary Ann is an example where if somebody who hid their game for a very long

[00:13:43] time and came out with a very big move at the end and I think that that is kind of

[00:13:47] the way to win the new era and that's also why you know I think previously there was a

[00:13:51] lot of recruits a lot of people who didn't know the game very well so you could easily

[00:13:55] have somebody run the game from day one day dot as they say all the way to the end but now people

[00:14:00] are too savvy to allow that to happen so that's why you know you try to hide your moves and

[00:14:05] give credit to other people until it's too late but once you're exposed you're gone.

[00:14:09] Yep and you were somebody who was really good at hiding what you were doing and they still

[00:14:15] caught you they still got you yes they still did and it's a pesky Mary Ann I would have

[00:14:20] gotten away with it too if it weren't for that meddling kid but she is um you know I mean that is

[00:14:26] the it seems to be that that's the way you want to win and I think that you know somebody who

[00:14:30] highlighted a strategy similar to that I remember Kim Spradlin Wolf's interview of being in the

[00:14:37] middle you know you don't want to be the most social the most strategic the most anything

[00:14:40] just hide right in the middle but you don't want to be the least either and I think that

[00:14:43] that really is the recipe for success especially in the new era where everybody's very savvy

[00:14:48] if you have somebody that has greater cover than you and you know Kenzie maybe wasn't coming across

[00:14:53] as big of a threat because you had somebody like Charlie who was you know strategically playing

[00:14:57] the game or Maria who was a big threat as well and so she could kind of hide how lethal that

[00:15:02] social game was. Omar I feel like there's such a disconnect between the players and

[00:15:07] the jurors in terms of what they need to do to win the game somehow the same the same

[00:15:14] human beings when they sit on the beach they talk about how like oh gotta have a resume gotta

[00:15:20] make the big moves I gotta have something to show but when we take a look at why the people

[00:15:26] vote the way they vote it does not seem as though that there's a lot of people that are

[00:15:32] necessarily voting for that this person oh the resume the resume was stellar. Should we get

[00:15:37] deep on this issue because I have some thoughts. I would love to I have some thoughts as well

[00:15:42] yeah so I think that um it's a lot of people will I've seen a lot of things there's a for a

[00:15:47] while people are blaming a bitter jury then people were saying oh well it's on the finalists

[00:15:52] for them to vote people out in a way that still allows them to vote for you but I will say

[00:15:58] now having lived through the experience it can be very unpredictable in terms of how somebody

[00:16:02] is in the game and then how they are out of the game and the reason that I think that that

[00:16:06] is the case is that you know this game is very passionate everybody loves it but it is a traumatic

[00:16:11] experience to some extent and that doesn't necessarily mean a bad experience but it is

[00:16:15] a very intense emotional and physical experience which is going to result in intense emotions

[00:16:21] and so much of your success in the game is tied to your own self-worth and nobody knows

[00:16:26] what it's like to be voted out until you're voted out and it's almost like everything you

[00:16:31] knew especially if you're blindsided everything you knew is put into question it's like this

[00:16:35] vacuum or this supernova that goes off and what's left in the wake of that and what could be left

[00:16:40] in the wake of that is either you blame yourself and then have introspection and then don't really

[00:16:46] put that on other people or it could be a situation where you want to protect your own

[00:16:51] ego your own identity your own self-worth and so you put that onto other people so I think

[00:16:56] and then also as people come into the jury you have people that they don't know all of

[00:17:01] the information so they're getting bits and pieces of information and if they're not willing to

[00:17:06] listen and sit down with themselves and say hey we don't actually know all the information until

[00:17:09] we listen to the finalists then you're going to get a situation where decisions are made with

[00:17:13] incomplete information and something that's filling a very large emotional vacuum yeah

[00:17:20] it's so interesting to me because I was thinking this morning about okay Kenzie got five

[00:17:26] votes from the jury and I think that the five votes that she got were for all different

[00:17:32] reasons they were all over the map the five the reasons why Kenzie got five votes and I

[00:17:37] think that Kenzie the player probably has no idea what is going to be the thing that is going

[00:17:43] to make each person vote for her she got a vote from Tevin who and I haven't seen Tevin do

[00:17:50] an interview for this but I think that the reason Tevin seemed conflicted but in my mind

[00:17:54] I think that Tevin looked at Kenzie as the person who was able to play the game that Tevin wanted

[00:18:00] to play yeah I think that the thing is I think everybody has a different criteria and I do think

[00:18:06] we have to take it off of the finalists at some in some capacity to know exactly what these

[00:18:11] people are going to want but maybe the way in which that they kind of cope with or adapt to

[00:18:16] that is giving answers that cover a broad spectrum of things like some that are more

[00:18:21] life-based some that are more strategic based some that are more social based but making sure

[00:18:25] that those views don't conflict with one another because obviously if you have somebody saying

[00:18:29] I played very strategically and then the next breath saying I really had honor and integrity

[00:18:33] that will not you know jive very well but I think it is to kind of cover different

[00:18:38] don't only focus on the game when you're answering at final tribal yeah so then the

[00:18:43] other four votes that Kenzie got uh I feel like that Tiffany is okay Tiffany was her day

[00:18:48] one person Kenzie wanted to vote her out it didn't ultimately come to pass and so that totally

[00:18:56] you get that Venus I think is probably the same category as Tiffany where that they that

[00:19:02] Venus and Kenzie seemed like that they had a little bit of a bond that we saw especially

[00:19:07] in the episode where Venus went out it wasn't super explored on the show we have Maria who

[00:19:12] says she voted for Kenzie because that she saw the look in Kenzie's eye when she made the fire

[00:19:21] she told me this morning that it was a look that she saw herself in Kenzie

[00:19:26] when she saw her end up making uh the fire and Q voted for Kenzie because he said

[00:19:34] that she answered his question correctly the he didn't listen to what anybody else said

[00:19:40] he only listened to what she said to his question and he liked her answer

[00:19:45] right I mean Q is playing the Q game so I mean I think if you are thinking about it from a

[00:19:50] finalist perspective in in a sense I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm like okay I can

[00:19:54] see how you could potentially you know if we have the concept that people also want to

[00:19:59] mirror their own gameplay and who they want to vote for I think that that's a very natural

[00:20:03] thing so then you do have to maybe look more less at yourself at a time as a finalist and

[00:20:07] more as to who you're speaking with and what traits they exemplified and valued in the game

[00:20:13] and tailor your answer to that but at the same time I think it's hard because listening

[00:20:17] to Charlie's even his interview his exit interview saying you know he was basically

[00:20:21] told on the way out that Maria was going to vote for him there was not much more he could

[00:20:26] do or foresee like I see that like I just don't see what Charlie could have done differently

[00:20:31] and I think that he did have an argument for if he won to possibly be you know the

[00:20:35] strongest player in the new era because of how well rounded that he was and I know that

[00:20:40] was a discussion you and Stephen had and I still think that he played a very very good game but

[00:20:45] it doesn't make Kenzie you know undeserving I think they both played a very strong game

[00:20:50] and I thought it was interesting how they valued the jurors valued this decision

[00:20:54] um you know based on the edit you know also being a player who was strategically driven I

[00:21:00] could see gravitating more towards Charlie but at the same time I get why Kenzie won as well.

[00:21:06] Yeah and it's interesting that we end up in this situation with these two both in the final

[00:21:11] three and I think it really took a player like a player with like really strong emotional

[00:21:17] ties like Ben winning the final four immunity challenge to okay I'm going to you know make

[00:21:25] make the pick of like I'm not going to try to take out the threats here I'm going to

[00:21:29] take a threat with me Ben said he thought Charlie had it wrapped up he thought that like okay I'm

[00:21:34] excited for my guy is going to win the game and then okay Kenzie and Liz you know go for it you

[00:21:41] make the fire but this is probably going to be Charlie's thing and so um Ben was not thinking

[00:21:46] about like okay how do I take out a threat here at the final four? Okay so they presented

[00:21:50] it a different way on the show yes that's good to know for context that Liz was not his like

[00:21:55] big ultimate final boss that's that's although she is I would like her to be my final boss.

[00:22:00] Yeah and that's some supposition on my I don't think that that's exactly what Ben said uh this

[00:22:04] morning but I did I did ask him about uh whether or not Liz what and he was very

[00:22:08] complimentary of Liz but did not describe her as like the ultimate threat that was going

[00:22:14] to win the game how'd she gotten to the end? I do want to get into um Ben's reasonings

[00:22:19] and also what they talked about about fire because that really grinded my gears a little

[00:22:23] bit but before I get into that I want to know what Liz should have done differently to strengthen

[00:22:27] her wrists. Hmm grip strength? Yeah like give us some examples I'd like to know what young Rob

[00:22:34] would have said. I think that look Charlie had the machine that uh I don't know if that's

[00:22:39] gonna like tighten your ligaments. Hmm I guess we could go back to Amazon Rob I'm sure he

[00:22:44] would have had a few ideas. Maybe. But yeah but you know what really grinds my gears about

[00:22:49] this fire thing is that people have won the game being taken to the end. Yes. People have won the

[00:22:55] game winning the immunity and keeping it. People have won the game giving up immunity and making

[00:23:01] fire and people haven't won the game being put into fire. I hate this new weird culture that

[00:23:07] people are pointing to of you didn't put yourself into fire or you didn't go against

[00:23:11] that person in fire because it is like why are then why are we not celebrating Eric giving up

[00:23:17] immunity like that is just right it's situational it doesn't make sense to do that all the time

[00:23:22] and I would say most of the time it does not make sense to give up your immunity necklace

[00:23:26] or volunteer to go into a situation where you have a 50-50 shot of staying. I don't think that

[00:23:31] Charlie lost a vote because of not going into the fire unless you really you are saying okay

[00:23:37] that Maria is you know that that was the difference maker the look in Kenzie's eye

[00:23:42] because Charlie said that the fire making actually took quite some time he thought it

[00:23:47] was going to have to go to matches he thought that it was you know it went on and on and on

[00:23:54] and he did not think that the fire making turned out to be that impressive.

[00:24:00] Right right and I think that yeah we don't see all of that I just I was brought up

[00:24:04] at final tribal it was a big theme of 43 it's kind of annoying like it's unnecessary

[00:24:09] we've also seen people take that like give up immunity and still lose at the end like

[00:24:14] like Heidi did so like this is not I hate this I hate it so much I think there are certain

[00:24:20] situations like Chris Underwood and even Heidi I think made the right decision in their particular

[00:24:24] spot but I don't like that this has become a uh like a negative for people that don't because

[00:24:29] I see it as a very strong move for Charlie to be brought to the end based on a social

[00:24:33] game like Ben is willing to go against him like that's I think that's good why are

[00:24:37] we not rewarding that in the new era? Yeah I absolutely thought that maybe Hunter might have

[00:24:43] penalized Charlie for that but he ended up being a Charlie vote so he looked a little bit like I

[00:24:47] feel like you're playing it a little safe he's like no absolutely not so Charlie if Charlie

[00:24:52] would have voted for Kenzie in that spot which I originally thought he would I would

[00:24:56] have pointed to that but I don't think that there was a unless you look say the Maria vote

[00:25:00] was based off of that can I tell you something else that was interesting in my exit interviews

[00:25:04] between talking with Charlie and talking with Maria there was one piece in particular

[00:25:11] that they that there was a delta in between what they said in the interviews and I want to try

[00:25:19] to like you know handle this delicately because I don't know if maybe one of them

[00:25:27] is misinformed about this but Charlie in his exit interview there's a difference there's

[00:25:35] a there's a there's a there is a distance in between what the what the two of them had said

[00:25:41] so in in talking with Maria actually let me do this in order of that that I spoke to them

[00:25:48] in talking with Charlie he had told me about how that when he left things with Maria where

[00:25:56] Maria said I'm going to vote for you but according to Charlie and this is hearsay because

[00:26:01] he was not there he said that you know then Tiffany revealed to Maria that Charlie was

[00:26:09] planning on and Tiffany talked about this in her exit in her exit press that Charlie was

[00:26:13] talking about how okay let's use Tiffany's idol to blindside Maria and Charlie had been working

[00:26:20] to get Maria out of the game and obviously Tiffany was a very pro Kenzie person Tiffany

[00:26:28] very charismatic player that a lot of people told me today that they thought certainly Ben did

[00:26:35] that it was Tiffany's game to lose they looked at Tiffany as this very very big

[00:26:40] threat somebody who holds a lot of influence okay um and and Charlie thought that maybe

[00:26:48] that Tiffany had influenced Maria's thinking coming into the final tribal council I had asked

[00:26:55] Maria about you at the at the final trial council you seem to know that Charlie was

[00:27:02] coming for you but you left the game not knowing that information she said she did

[00:27:07] not know that Charlie was coming for her until the final tribal council is what Maria said

[00:27:13] right interesting I mean I think that people you know Ponderosa is a game in itself and

[00:27:20] and also praise we're not here to talk about that Omar yeah it's not even it's not even me

[00:27:24] this time you know um they're messing on their own but you know it is a game in itself like

[00:27:29] because people are interacting and they're able to speak and you know some people may be more

[00:27:34] impressionable than others or and some people may be completely turned off by anything from

[00:27:39] people so it's hard to again without knowing what the interactions are and I use to some extent

[00:27:44] we have to take it at face value it doesn't make a lot of sense for Maria to be upset that

[00:27:48] Charlie was coming after um her in the game because she was going after him as well um so

[00:27:56] if that is the rationale it's not very consistent but at the same time I don't know

[00:28:01] if we've heard that from Maria herself we have not we have not so that's why I say

[00:28:04] take this with a grain of salt but I just thought that that was interesting in my in my

[00:28:08] two conversations that uh there were two different versions of uh you know what what changed between

[00:28:15] Maria leaving the game and then coming in because I thought that what was interesting

[00:28:20] was that tradition in the history of the final tribal council I think we have like one

[00:28:25] of two things that tend to happen when you have these people that work together

[00:28:29] and then that there is some kind of a betrayal that more often than I feel like we see

[00:28:37] somebody come in and a very icy stare and it's like Omar where do you get off uh I'm sure this is

[00:28:46] probably were you this way with Marianne of like yeah you're like uh like boy you're dead to me

[00:28:55] but then ultimately they go in the voting booth and they write the person's name down

[00:28:59] that's yes we also have the version that was classic Malcolm classic Malcolm

[00:29:04] classic yeah he classic Trish yes yeah queen yes um did you see that cats posted that they

[00:29:10] had to refilm that that's so funny yes she did say that um we also have where the Sioux hawk

[00:29:16] where it's a very like okay you made a big mistake Kelly you're you're dead to me if I

[00:29:23] ever see you walking in in life I'll leave you on until on the side of the road to let

[00:29:29] the vultures do with you what they will um dying of thirst to read Kelly well actually they weren't

[00:29:34] really allies so either people come in and they're like they rip you a new one and vote for the

[00:29:41] other person or they rip you a new one and they vote for you yeah I think this is very rare

[00:29:46] of that they don't worst is when they they rip you a new one make you take your teeth out

[00:29:51] and then don't vote for you and then and then don't vote for you uh but this was this is

[00:29:56] I feel like new of like not really gonna tip you off but then here's the dagger in the voting

[00:30:03] book knife yeah I mean that's why I kind of think that maybe there really was some true

[00:30:08] indecision there about what the final vote was going to be and I think maybe maybe it is

[00:30:13] more a matter of you know Kenzie's story and Kenzie's game resonated with Maria as a person

[00:30:19] outside of the game and as you know her identity of being a young woman that wants

[00:30:24] to start a family and doing something for herself based on the interview that I had seen

[00:30:29] yeah and that's what she told me as well she said that she was walking to the voting with

[00:30:33] Charlie Kenzie Charlie Kenzie yeah so maybe it is like a it does not have anything to do with

[00:30:40] less to do with Charlie which is just interesting because they had such a

[00:30:43] long-standing relationship in the game I think that it also depends how you view the game

[00:30:49] yourself like I think that you know me playing the game I would probably want to be judged

[00:30:53] based on what happened in the game as opposed to outside factors and so that's probably more how I

[00:30:58] would vote but you know I guess did you have that on in your experience because I felt for

[00:31:03] the most part on our season it mostly was what happened in the game that people were voting

[00:31:07] about but was it did outside factors play a role for you and social game ties in I get

[00:31:13] that but Maria there's no question had more of a game relationship with Charlie so I think

[00:31:19] if you're judging by game only like it's hard to go the other way but what do you think so as far

[00:31:25] as me as a juror like your experience as a juror and also even not being on the jury in all stars

[00:31:31] but being there was it outside of the game factors well actually that's a whole can of

[00:31:36] worms because there was all those pre-game relationships at time but um in amazon like

[00:31:40] were people really wanting to award the money to Jenna outside of the game reasons or

[00:31:45] strictly in the game so in survivor of the amazon I remember I came in and I really did feel like

[00:31:51] at least in my mind I was open-minded about which way it could have gone I think it was a

[00:31:56] little bit of a different story in survivor of the amazon where I feel like that the feeling

[00:32:00] was like can you believe this is the final two like uh like and we have that in some seasons

[00:32:05] where it's like how did these people make it to the end uh this is I think a little bit

[00:32:09] I don't know maybe the jury was feeling like that but it was like okay we have two pretty

[00:32:13] worthy winners here in Kenzie or or Charlie so I think that that was maybe a tougher decision

[00:32:20] whereas we're like hey well what's the best out of these two uh even Heidi was like don't

[00:32:25] you think there's anybody else that should have been up there anybody anybody else after that

[00:32:31] but so that she was trying to get her to say Dina Dina so I came and I felt like very

[00:32:38] uh open-minded but I do feel like that Matthew had um and maybe it's uh like an underreported

[00:32:45] story it was not a very strong final travel council you're not he did not command the room

[00:32:51] yes who's your role model in life my role model is Colin Powell go off king all right

[00:33:01] wait who is Colin Powell I don't really know no relation to Stacy Powell

[00:33:06] ah damn that that would have gotten me right there if he would have said Stacy

[00:33:10] Powell I would have voted for him retroactively yes okay but that was

[00:33:13] he would have had to have known her outside the game at that particular point in time um

[00:33:18] okay let's talk a little bit about Kenzie's game uh some more because I think it's so

[00:33:24] interesting Omer I think that Kenzie had so many so many obstacles that were in her way

[00:33:32] but then when we look back at it I think that they were things that really ultimately helped her

[00:33:39] like you you have something in mind because I also do yeah I mean we could go through it

[00:33:44] but uh we'd love to hear you um you know respond to that I just I think that Kenzie

[00:33:50] you know between you and fishback who is the know-it-all who is the ultimate know-it-all

[00:33:55] and you did say something that reigned true in this situation in that Kenzie I think is one of

[00:34:01] those players that does not have to do anything specific to win the game yes because she is

[00:34:08] such a strong player socially on her own that you know if she does something that's too

[00:34:13] gregarious strategically she's probably going to be a target before the end so why are you

[00:34:18] going to do that and put yourself out there that's kind of dumb but she's able to kind of

[00:34:22] stay within a larger group of the outsiders that were outside of the six that was not

[00:34:28] that was more of a curse than an alliance and she's able to kind of work her social game

[00:34:32] and and very do very subtle things like get 100 and not play as idle to make it to the end

[00:34:37] but to the point where she's not viewed as such someone that has to go but even but just

[00:34:42] the fact that she could get there is enough and so I think that I think it really was

[00:34:46] the power she is like the epitome of like a very powerful social player yeah and it's incredible

[00:34:52] because even one of her immunity wins that we saw last night was like an immunity win that came

[00:34:59] because of like her great social game that Liz wanted to help her win and also help Maria

[00:35:05] lose but that I thought that that was very powerful in terms of like what she was able to

[00:35:10] bring to the table but in terms of like some of like the things that like on paper

[00:35:14] were like you know unfortunate where being a part of Yanu and then also being on a tribe with Q

[00:35:24] who was like this very like domineering presence who really you know I felt like in the beginning

[00:35:30] of the game we saw Kenzie like fan out and have like a lot of working with Jalinski and

[00:35:35] we're working with Jess and had a lot of different things going on and and we saw Q

[00:35:39] like override a couple times like no Jalinski he that I'm making the call he's gonna go and

[00:35:46] I think it was probably hard for Kenzie to you know really have a say in what was going on at

[00:35:52] Yanu but I think ultimately that proves to be you know kind of a blessing for her even Q makes

[00:35:58] the six and leaves her out of it and then ultimately it's all people who were left out

[00:36:03] of the six that go on to be the final four in the game. I think there is also something about

[00:36:10] that special thing about being on the tribe that sucks that does endear people towards you in terms

[00:36:17] of like look at that Cinderella story which you know I don't know if that's fair or not

[00:36:22] because at the other hand you could look at somebody that was on a dominating tribe and be

[00:36:25] like wow they really like killed it and it's not like this was an intentional Matt

[00:36:29] Singh situation they just sucked but yes I think overcoming that adversity in terms of

[00:36:35] you know the tribe she was on playing with such unpredictable players it does elevate her game

[00:36:39] in a way that you know is independent of what I mean she was still able to navigate that but

[00:36:44] those are factors outside of herself but I think that that is like do you think that this

[00:36:48] puts a target on the backs of people who like you had Jam Jam coming from a small tribe

[00:36:53] had you know obviously success with Kenzie this time yeah is it is it and then the other times

[00:37:00] I feel like I feel like with Ua they didn't make it to the end and I don't know if there

[00:37:06] was any other really small tribe I don't think that this season in particular that that's going

[00:37:10] to be the takeaway in terms of because that the Yanu three was so just like so chaotic

[00:37:17] and it was like you know Q was just his own thing so I don't think that this is like

[00:37:22] are going to look at these three like Tika yeah that's fair because they did not and Emily

[00:37:26] and Caleb like didn't go on to like have this great run ultimately so I don't think that

[00:37:32] necessarily people are going to be that worried about it like they might have been post Tika

[00:37:36] 3 or Malcolm or Malcolm or Malcolm and Denise but um so also uh for Kenzie add her to the

[00:37:45] list of people that ends up having their number one blindsided not taken out by themselves not

[00:37:53] not right but this is like a very powerful thing for people that sometimes you have a

[00:38:00] close ally who you're going to be jockeying with at the end of the game for you know

[00:38:05] positioning of who's going to get it and you know we had of course Natalie Anderson

[00:38:11] I think that this was something that helped uh Jeremy in second chances when Andrew Savage got

[00:38:16] taken out with the Wentworth Idol I think this was something that helped Cochran in

[00:38:21] survivor um South sorry Karen Mowen when Philip got blindsided and I think that this was a

[00:38:28] good thing for Kenzie ultimately when what happened with Tiffany Tiffany gets taken out

[00:38:34] of the game and it's like oh this this is a disaster for my game we'll see yeah I think

[00:38:40] that that is also very true and I think the interesting thing which I don't remember Charlie

[00:38:45] saying but I could have missed it so remind me if I'm wrong but as far as I know um other than

[00:38:50] the Venus vote at the merge which was an intentional part of Charlie's game to put a

[00:38:57] shot in the dark out there it seems like Charlie was never blindsided and so he was kind

[00:39:03] of in on every single vote whereas whereas Kenzie was obviously not in on the Tiffany vote

[00:39:07] so is that not an argument you should be pushing as a finalist to be like I was in on every single

[00:39:13] plan and I mean the other two were not so that's a very easy thing to say but did he say that

[00:39:19] because I don't remember that we didn't see it I don't believe um it doesn't mean that he

[00:39:23] didn't say it but I mean do you think that that would have changed one of the votes

[00:39:27] I mean I think first I think it very well could have because I guess the at the end of the day

[00:39:31] these people were like looking for you know what's your strategic move what what what how

[00:39:36] did you run the game or drive the game and I think being in on every vote and being a and having

[00:39:40] a key role in some of them like I think maybe Charlie shouldn't have sold the hunter thing as

[00:39:44] much as the Venus thing because that was very clearly his move um but I think that that's

[00:39:49] something that is very objectively stands out but it definitely does help you to have somebody

[00:39:53] that's on the jury that is your alliance member that you had nothing you know because

[00:39:57] the thing is even if people are not outright campaigning like vote for Kenzie to win there

[00:40:02] is a culture that is set up when you have people go out and they feel positively about you like

[00:40:06] the framework in which you're spoken about will be more positive which will leech onto other

[00:40:11] people as well yeah and you know they may not bring up things that you did that were bad

[00:40:15] because they look at you favorably so I think that it does set up but it's like how do you

[00:40:19] you can't really you know who actually did that very well to some extent was Sarah Lucena

[00:40:24] who I don't love to credit with a lot but I mean her sending out Sierra Don Thomas

[00:40:28] um under the pretense that she was working with her that's something where you can achieve

[00:40:33] that sort of outcome without the but while still having the agency although at the end of the day

[00:40:40] Sierra I think Sierra voted for Brad but she didn't know for a while that it was Sarah that did it

[00:40:45] yeah

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[00:42:26] you in terms of the jury makeup and tell me what you think about this that it feels like to

[00:42:32] me that the people who are the early juror jury members those are the people that they

[00:42:40] care more about resume the people who get further in the game care more about

[00:42:47] vibes and how you made them feel yeah I mean we saw that very very clearly with ghost island

[00:42:54] you know there's the first five jurors all loaded for dominic the last five jurors all

[00:42:59] voted for wendell so that makes a lot of sense I think that it's because they're not

[00:43:03] involved in the game past where they go so that all they see is tribal all they see are

[00:43:09] the flashy moves which is why a smaller jury can have a different vibe than a bigger jury as well

[00:43:14] I think it's nice to have a mixture of people but I do think there's a disproportionate amount

[00:43:18] of influence that early jurors can have and late jurors can have because obviously the

[00:43:23] late jurors are coming out with very fresh information and the early ones are the ones

[00:43:26] that set up the vibe the whole time and it's the people in the middle that I feel like get

[00:43:29] lost a little bit I feel like that the players think about this more on big brother

[00:43:33] about who do we want to send to the jury when do you think that survivor players should think

[00:43:39] about the order of who they send to the jury and also the types of things you want to be

[00:43:46] doing in the game at certain times like is there a way to sort of like optimize how you

[00:43:52] play the game or are we just way over complicating a game that we started this

[00:43:57] conversation and saying like hey whoever's got the best social game in riz that person's

[00:44:03] gonna win I think I think ultimately that is the most important thing but that doesn't

[00:44:07] mean it's the only thing and so I do think there is something to how you put people on

[00:44:11] the jury and whatnot the problem is again like we talked about earlier sometimes you actually

[00:44:16] just have no idea what they're going to think on the jury and I say that again I've

[00:44:23] experienced that I've had people in the game be like this is a game it's only about the

[00:44:27] game and then on the jury that's the opposite of how they think and there's no way to foresee

[00:44:31] that really so in some context yes but I do think that the gent you can take still some take

[00:44:37] some general key concepts away and the first person the mayor of ponderosa really sets the

[00:44:42] vibe so you probably don't want to send out somebody that you're really you know digging

[00:44:48] the knife into and twisting it at that point I think yeah I thought soda was a really good

[00:44:54] mayor of ponderosa I thought she did very very well that I really felt like that her and

[00:44:59] hunter and I guess their teachers right that I thought they both did a really good job of like

[00:45:03] I felt like they took their job as jurors like very seriously they were really I thought like

[00:45:10] both in play for both Charlie and Kenzie and like I thought really weighed the facts and I

[00:45:17] thought that it was interesting that they were the people that they were the Charlie votes

[00:45:21] along with Liz like the people that were like the most like analytical of the jurors went with

[00:45:28] Charlie right right and it's interesting because from the final tribal that I saw it seemed like

[00:45:32] Kenzie gave some very good answers like sometimes the way she spoke with her humility in terms of

[00:45:37] like I came here to make friends and you know you know she wasn't taking more credit than

[00:45:42] she deserved but was still able to be very sincere I thought that that would have resonated

[00:45:47] more but again Charlie's answers on paper were very good as well so I can see from an

[00:45:52] analytical perspective like hunter saying oh and the last two tribal councils he took the

[00:45:55] foot off the gas but like what else was he supposed to do you know and he articulated that

[00:45:59] right like yeah he should be taking out Maria and then he should be allow himself to get taken to

[00:46:04] the end and he he articulated that and the people that were listening for that sort of

[00:46:08] thing they did kind of vote for him so I think that um I think they yeah soda I agree

[00:46:13] soda and hunter were very good in terms of being jury for people in that sense um and

[00:46:18] I think that the takeaway message for people like putting people on the jury is yes like it's

[00:46:23] hard to plan to get your closest ally on the jury without you knowing anything about it

[00:46:27] but you can avoid putting certain people on the jury very early or eliminating them pre-merge

[00:46:33] or whatever it may be in hindsight I feel like that Charlie got screwed pretty bad and

[00:46:39] you know so I mean screwed in terms of like it was unfortunate for him that Maria won the

[00:46:45] at seven and at six because I feel like that he was just seemingly missing that one head on a

[00:46:55] pike that he could have shown to that jury that would have like put it out of reach for Kenzie

[00:47:02] and the fact that he would have been a target and gone home that's well that's the thing

[00:47:07] that's the thing and he did not win those final immunities I mean I think he probably

[00:47:11] would have won in a fire making if he got thrown into it but um if he would have uh taken the

[00:47:17] shot at Maria well what do you think is a better outcome for Charlie is it better to have you

[00:47:23] know gotten the shot in on Maria and then gone out like a la a Jesse or have gotten to the

[00:47:29] end and been a losing finalist um I think I think that's uh that's hard because I also

[00:47:38] took a shot early and then got voted out because of it and I felt like I

[00:47:42] I think in the Jesse situation it's better I think it's better to take your shot and know

[00:47:49] that you have the the winning game because then you can always say like ah what is gonna win

[00:47:53] uh I'm the you should have one guy yes or the one you should have one gal yeah I think

[00:47:59] you know take those risks and do it and I'm sure that's what casting would want you to

[00:48:04] yeah okay let's talk about that challenge that Kenzie won last night and how Liz helped out Kenzie

[00:48:12] win it you put so much thought into this I really I think you are just uh one of the

[00:48:20] most knowledgeable people that there is uh like I I blush at uh just how little

[00:48:27] survivor I know compared to you how do you think about this because this was I feel like

[00:48:35] I don't know how to feel about uh the way that Maria lost this challenge right you know who did

[00:48:42] not like it Marianne Marianne didn't like it okay tell me more about that not like it and

[00:48:47] I actually agree with Marianne's reasoning and here's why well first of all I feel like there's

[00:48:51] been historical precedent on the show that you cannot interfere with somebody else's shit

[00:48:56] so drop your Albert pick up my pieces you know like that was not allowed just said no maybe

[00:49:03] it's because Ozzy was on the other end of that mouth who's to say um but it was explicitly not

[00:49:08] allowed uh and then what Marianne had pointed out that I thought was very and I agree 100%

[00:49:13] is if Liz is allowed to go out onto the course and take Kenzie's piece of the puzzle

[00:49:19] or whatever what is to stop her from then taking Maria's and hiding it or throwing it

[00:49:24] away like I don't think that that makes a lot of sense I think that if you're gonna do this

[00:49:30] you cannot leave your lane like I think Liz should have to stay in her own lane yeah not

[00:49:35] go get Kenzie's piece if she's gonna go back and from a distance count it I think that that's

[00:49:40] fair game but it's kind of like it could leave a very I'm surprised actually Maria was

[00:49:45] not more sour about that in particular because I would have been annoyed she said that she's

[00:49:50] had many sleepless nights about it when I asked her that question this morning but yeah I feel

[00:49:55] like that I feel the same way I feel like that if Liz went down and counted holes in the board

[00:50:01] and then came back and relayed that information that to me I think is fine but the fact that

[00:50:08] she's able to go and go get the piece and bring it I mean to me it does feel a little

[00:50:15] bit like that I've been describing this as a slippery slope you know let's say hypothetically

[00:50:22] you know um let's it's survivor 42 and say Jonathan is like on this run and he's

[00:50:29] and Jonathan could win immunities okay and you're like all right that's it tomorrow

[00:50:34] we gotta we gotta stop Jonathan so the four of us we're gonna work together in the challenge

[00:50:39] and make sure in the individual immunity challenge that we're gonna do whatever now there are

[00:50:44] other times that we've seen like uh survivor Guatemala we have a game where uh that I think

[00:50:51] they did it in Palau also to Stephanie where um I could be getting that one wrong but or rave

[00:50:57] or a judge told rave what the answer to one of the the word puzzle was right but I'm telling

[00:51:01] that they sometimes they play the game where you flip over the tiles and you try to like

[00:51:05] box somebody box somebody out and everybody's working together to take somebody out like

[00:51:11] that's different that's like sort of like baked into that game but yes I think that then they

[00:51:16] need to look at this I think I agree they need to look at it but also we should not blame

[00:51:21] like Carson doing the puzzles that was good smart strategy that's on the game masters to

[00:51:28] change the ability to do that and they have done that for the most part I think that Liz

[00:51:34] Queen asked for forgiveness not permission you do what you need to do that was a smart move

[00:51:39] but I think they need to make people stay in their lane I think you can help somebody remotely

[00:51:44] like I don't see why Liz can't help her shout answers to her and you know what part of the

[00:51:48] problem was on this was that there was like a surprise twist in the challenge so typically

[00:51:54] survivors like Jeff like oh show you the challenge and then everybody gets to go through

[00:51:58] and they show you all the different parts and you get to ask whatever can I throw

[00:52:02] can I throw my top my sandbags at his target and they said no no you can't do that

[00:52:06] it's not allowed okay they get a call but this was like a surprise to the players that there

[00:52:12] was going to be this part so there was not the opportunity to go and like hey can I go and help

[00:52:18] Kenzie Jeff had to make this call like on the fly now again they can if they want to like whoa

[00:52:26] stop the challenge we're not doing that yeah they're within their right to do that

[00:52:30] experienced that before so they definitely could do it I think there was because there was no I

[00:52:35] guess clear it wasn't clearly outlawed they had to allow it to happen but I do not think that

[00:52:41] that will be allowed moving forward I think people will have to stay in their lane I think

[00:52:46] that the reason they don't do stuff like the flipping of the tiles is because it takes like

[00:52:51] what is the benefit from a TV perspective of just teaming up on the person that's gonna

[00:52:56] like the the drama is whether or not that person can win and if you're having a situation

[00:53:00] where they can't win because of the collusion that is bad TV but in this situation I thought

[00:53:04] it was compelling but I do think they need to change it moving forward yeah and they also

[00:53:08] have the standards and practices as part of this and fairness people so like if they felt like

[00:53:13] that this was something that was beyond the pale I do think they would have stopped the

[00:53:16] challenge you think also like Maria has had sleepless nights about this she said but on

[00:53:22] the show from what we saw was very non-confrontational non-upset about this oh I thought she was very upset

[00:53:28] I thought she was like very she read as very angry about it but like it's fine not out wordly

[00:53:34] it's fine it's good but do you think that like bottling that up is also something that can play

[00:53:38] a factor in decisions made later on because if you don't have an outlet for your but she

[00:53:43] voted for Kenzie like I kind of feel if she was bitter towards Kenzie about that then I would

[00:53:47] say like okay well maybe it has to do with the puzzle right right yeah I mean that's that's

[00:53:51] a fair point but um okay yeah I mean she she was very classy about not saying anything in

[00:53:56] the moment but I could not that would really have grounded my gears oh what else about this

[00:54:03] finale and this season have you been thinking about um I think that Q and Venus in particular

[00:54:10] were like electric players to watch they were so fun um and I think the level of you know

[00:54:16] angst amongst this cast has just been very entertaining and I'm glad you know you've seen

[00:54:21] some twitter brawls out there yes yes well as a you know historian of the game and

[00:54:29] certainly an observed keen observer of the new era what was it about this cast was it just that

[00:54:35] we're this far into the new era and this is what it's like or do you feel like that there

[00:54:40] was something special about this particular cast was the secret sauce I honestly you know your

[00:54:46] guess is as good as mine because you'll have all of these seasons in a row with like

[00:54:50] relatively similar gameplay you know even sister seasons can be very similar but 45 was

[00:54:56] the opposite of maybe you know Bruce and Keturah should have been on this season

[00:55:00] and then it swapped it out with um the most congenial ones here and then that would have

[00:55:04] been electric but I think that 46 should have gone to 45 let's switch it out yeah yeah okay so

[00:55:12] Ben put Ben into season 45 and Mo no Ben and Mariah yeah they think they fit in great

[00:55:19] yeah they're the most congenial potentially well Charlie's pretty congenial too

[00:55:24] but he ultimately ends up with like ironically the bad blood

[00:55:29] yeah so let's go with Mo and Ben you're going to 45 and Bruce and Keturah you're in

[00:55:35] in this season but every so often you have a Gabon and where the hell did that come from

[00:55:41] you know like sometimes there's just a conglomeration of people that do not mesh

[00:55:45] and it's iconic and we had that with Gabon there was a what other seasons have been

[00:55:50] like that what just just chaos a mess chaos and mess oh okay Kageyan Kageyan certainly maybe

[00:56:01] we're brawling the hell out of twitter maybe it's once every 10 years yeah yeah I can't wait

[00:56:06] for the 10 years from now yeah I mean really I mean 17 28 36 like uh so and you even have

[00:56:15] a brawling with with a uh with a building like yeah and honestly if you're gonna be brawling

[00:56:21] with a building like why aren't you going after that bitch ass seattle space needle like come on

[00:56:26] well she wasn't in seattle but do you think that what is it the sky tower back in toronto

[00:56:33] I know cn tower cn tower sorry sorry about that yeah have you been up the cn tower I've not

[00:56:40] okay me neither yeah yeah okay we have questions from the audience now do you feel like that

[00:56:48] did this season change the show in that did the survivor 46 give survivor and jeff ultimately

[00:56:59] like did is jeff gonna be spicier is the cast gonna be spicier do we should we expect a

[00:57:06] survivor 40 several that's gonna be more like survivor 46 or more like survivor 45 I think I

[00:57:13] think oh well I mean I think we're gonna see more of 45 because I feel like this is like

[00:57:21] this is like the cicadas that come out after 17 years and then die like it's gonna be a

[00:57:25] while before we see this kind of mess again um but I think I think for you know well I

[00:57:30] mean 47's cast looks pretty cool you know what I'm saying yeah uh I mean I think it looks like a

[00:57:38] great cast but you know uh of the but of the couple of people that we recognize they wanted

[00:57:42] 47 they should have put on chapelle right um from the couple people that we recognize from

[00:57:49] survivor 47's preview saw of course great podcaster Asia Welch who is like a rather in

[00:57:58] my experience um you know a rather even keeled person not messy no if they wanted a 46 type

[00:58:05] season they should have put on Brandon Chapelle not Asia they're going for 45 so even and also

[00:58:12] you know if they really wanted to stick it to our half they probably should have put on someone

[00:58:16] who was gonna get voted out first like uh Sam Moore you know yeah yeah are they trying to

[00:58:21] stick at us I don't know but that's what they would do if they wanted to okay all right let's

[00:58:26] keep going with the questions all right how about um but actually also yes the true telling

[00:58:34] of whether or not they loved 46 is if people will be allowed to be messy on twitter moving

[00:58:40] forward yeah what do you think is the reason for the change I feel like you're so tapped in

[00:58:46] um I think it is uh just was this a yeah what was this a choice or was this sort of like

[00:58:56] like we're we're we're tired yeah or it didn't catch our attention or I don't even know

[00:59:02] but you know when Kageyan happened famously birthed white rice Wednesday for 29 because

[00:59:11] they weren't allowed to say anything so I guess we'll see yeah the relationship and sort of like

[00:59:17] um the restraints that the network puts on the cast sort of like ebbs and flows over the

[00:59:24] course of survivor history that there are times when it's very laissez faire do whatever you want

[00:59:31] and like or or just like eh like we're we've got other things going on and there's other

[00:59:36] times where they really try to like every tweet you post needs to get approved by us do not

[00:59:41] do anything without checking in with us and I think I was in that era yeah I think that when

[00:59:48] the new era came back I think that they very much were okay um and then you know certainly then

[00:59:54] and then it spiked up again for whatever reasons uh and then but now it's really seems

[01:00:00] to be at a point where they're just letting let the survivors be the survivors they should

[01:00:07] and they should let people get messy because that improves engagement that improves people's

[01:00:12] love of the show can you imagine like being in an interactive community with these crazy

[01:00:16] people every week like that is what's going to get people to keep going and I think that

[01:00:21] people who don't feel that way are maybe behind the times maybe boomers as they say

[01:00:27] even millennials are going to be the new boomer soon though because I don't you know

[01:00:30] everyone keeps saying um that this tweet about um a maria me is so funny but I don't understand

[01:00:38] why it's funny yeah do you have any insight yes it's a taylor swift reference

[01:00:46] oh is it a song I believe uh in my very limited taylor swift lore I believe that taylor swift

[01:00:54] put out a song that was kind of a diss track to kim kardashian and uh was basically throwing shade

[01:01:02] at uh kim kardashian and um I believe that uh the amy is uh come on ron okay don't put me

[01:01:14] on the spot like this it has to do with it's a kim kardashian diss okay okay so you are a true

[01:01:22] swiftie then and also I appreciate the insight because I didn't understand yes but now I'm

[01:01:27] seeing the chat it's very clear gotcha yes okay so I knew uh it's something to do with it

[01:01:33] okay and because taylor uh kim kardashian really did wrong by uh taylor swift well kim

[01:01:39] kardashian sucks so I think she like re-edited some some audio it was wild

[01:01:47] hmm okay you know you know who had a really rough finale though is probably jim

[01:01:52] with all of the the taylor swift references she hated she's a real hate yeah well the

[01:01:58] haters are gonna hate hate hate hate hate but yeah were there a ton of taylor swift references

[01:02:04] in the finale there was at least three and I know that because marianne's new husband

[01:02:09] connor made an over under of two and I said and it was over yeah really the seagull idol

[01:02:16] turned out to be a huge storyline in the season more than it ever should have more than it ever

[01:02:21] should have been and you know we saw that jim was creating chaos and it was a true game

[01:02:27] changer but really and I asked I got to ask maria about this this morning about how big of

[01:02:32] a deal was the seagull idol not seah the seagull idol and what maria had said was that

[01:02:40] what had gone on that wasn't also part of the show was that they had found the like letters

[01:02:47] from the journey like the parchment that froze from the jury remember ben went and came back

[01:02:53] and didn't tell anybody about like what what had happened and I think that there was like

[01:02:58] according to maria she said there was like passing of like parchment back and forth between

[01:03:04] ben and tim and I think that they had found what ben had gotten on the journey the tree

[01:03:10] male that he got there and so that that was why that there was so much suspicion

[01:03:15] towards ben and tim about how one of them had the idol my god that's exhausting and I'm glad

[01:03:23] they didn't put that all in the show it was it was enough of that idol and you know what justice

[01:03:29] for jem as well they didn't even bring her up as a fifth you know you would think that they

[01:03:33] would want to like push the fact that there were five idol blindsides but they totally wrote

[01:03:38] her off of the story it was like caro mo and all over again yeah I thought that overall the

[01:03:43] survivor after show uh left me wanting more this was you know was it you that had said

[01:03:49] that there were so many interesting things that things that happened they picked all the least

[01:03:54] yeah all that was missing was like uh remember when mariah couldn't jump

[01:04:02] but I did I well okay the pushing of the maria charlie thing that was somewhat interesting

[01:04:07] remember when maria taught everybody to salsa dance

[01:04:10] okay

[01:04:13] but why is this a big brother final three recap of the recap oh yeah yeah I don't watch that

[01:04:19] episode anymore I stopped watching it long ago because it was so bad yeah remember when

[01:04:23] survivor did recap episodes yes yeah they had one for your season they did I mean I think

[01:04:30] that the last one to do okay here's your survivor what was the last season they did

[01:04:33] a recap episode um it was south pacific you're right I think you're right yeah yeah

[01:04:39] they should bring it back well I think we'd have a lot of fun on rjp the week of the recap episode

[01:04:45] okay all right I'll do it for you but I don't think they'll ever do it it's like falling

[01:04:50] comrades which I liked but it'd be kind of like a little like week off for us like we'd sort

[01:04:55] of like do like something after the episode but we probably wouldn't get Steven to talk

[01:04:59] about the recap episode do we really need though another we I mean okay god bless 90

[01:05:04] minutes but do we need another 90 minutes of deleted scenes are there

[01:05:14] like it was one thing in 39 days maybe there was a lot of deleted scenes what are the things that

[01:05:18] would have been included if we had another 90 minutes I think we would have seen multiple

[01:05:23] episodes of tim straining to defecate yeah maybe that's why we need three tribes that's

[01:05:27] why we can't go back to two tribes because it's like hey we gotta fill the 90 minutes

[01:05:30] we don't have enough stuff

[01:05:36] okay do you think they will go back to two tribes please I think they will eventually be there will

[01:05:41] be a survivor season where they do uh two tribes but I don't think it will be anytime soon

[01:05:46] I think 50 could be two tribes I think that that's a possibility that would probably make

[01:05:50] sense yeah don't do an all-star season with three tribes okay trust me it sucks bad idea

[01:05:59] big mistake big mistake okay you know what actually was great that they included in your

[01:06:05] all-stars recap episode was your mock tribal council that was the most yes that came up on

[01:06:10] twitter the other day yeah that was a that was a good one yeah wait did you were you also

[01:06:13] there when they sent the letters to another tribe yeah so who did you send your letter to

[01:06:18] oh that's a good question do you want to guess um were you the one that started to

[01:06:24] stir up some drama about the africa three I don't think so oh wait that was alicia she thought she

[01:06:31] was doing such a good job yeah I don't know if I've ever seen that I think it's on the all-stars

[01:06:35] dvd I remember when it happened I sent a letter to colby and what did you say I don't remember

[01:06:43] like hey colpster what's happening man can't wait to meet you

[01:06:47] big white teeth see at the merge yeah see you at the finale you in Argentina yeah he wasn't with us

[01:06:56] yeah I know I know unfortunate okay all right uh max wants to know who goes home at final four

[01:07:03] if they don't have fire oh this is another thing that grinds my gears can we talk about it like

[01:07:08] why every time they keep pushing the end of the game forward it just results in people

[01:07:15] going home earlier that they want to have at the end of the game it's actually very counter

[01:07:18] intuitive I don't like it I think it's dumb fire is interesting but not when it's forced was this

[01:07:24] not the worst the worst segment of camp life at final four that we have had because we have

[01:07:30] seen this seven times it's hard for me to rank them um only seven times I feel like I mean

[01:07:37] I was being several c-shits yeah yeah several times but we've seen it several times and it's

[01:07:42] who can what is the drama who cares anymore like just do a vote I mean so they instituted

[01:07:49] the final four fire making in season 35 so this is uh what the 11th or is the

[01:07:55] technically the 12th time I think the 12th right 12th 12th time that we get it yeah I have to

[01:08:03] say I feel like that and I've talked about this with Stephen a lot I feel like that when

[01:08:06] they're actually making the fire that is you know it's an interesting couple minutes of television

[01:08:13] I don't know if it would be more interesting than if they voted um but yeah you're right

[01:08:17] practicing the making fire is I wonder if they like if it's always like the person

[01:08:24] that is struggling I mean that Carson was struggling and he lost yes that was

[01:08:31] that was compelling but that was one time like and the thing is fire was so interesting when

[01:08:37] it happened organically but now it's forced and it's just the thing is it's also it's not just

[01:08:41] that moment like I get that it's interesting for that moment when they're making the fire

[01:08:45] you don't know who's going to win it's not down to anything that you can read in the

[01:08:49] well sometimes you can read a little bit in the edit but you know what I mean like

[01:08:52] anything could happen but now it's the downstream consequences of having that at four

[01:08:59] it incentivizes a group of four to just stick together you have to vote out the threats earlier

[01:09:04] which is not what people want and or not what they would want I would guess and how boring was

[01:09:09] final five's vote because there was no other opportunity to get rid of Maria like if you had

[01:09:15] a vote at four a plus or minus three then you have people that will keep in a shield a little

[01:09:19] bit longer and it's more interesting I think yeah if there was no final four fire making

[01:09:24] do you think the final five vote would have been different I think it very well could have been

[01:09:29] because you may have someone like Kenzie or Charlie who would be the next person on the chopping

[01:09:33] block say okay well I can't get rid of Maria now I need to keep her a little bit longer

[01:09:38] and we can get rid of her later like I think that that would set up a situation where

[01:09:42] in this situation that's currently there it benefited all four people to vote up Maria

[01:09:47] and Maria only but if you have it where there's still votes and also because she could do the

[01:09:51] fire yes exactly but if you have it where it's not that then it incentivizes some people to get

[01:09:58] rid of Maria at that point and some people to keep her and I think that that is more interesting

[01:10:03] naturally yeah because Maria basically had a guaranteed immunity of that she they seem to

[01:10:07] respect her so much as a fire maker as well exactly big mistake producers big mistake I don't

[01:10:15] think that they're ever getting rid of the final four fire making I think as long as Jeff

[01:10:19] is running the show I think the final four fire making so it's like I can't get that worked

[01:10:23] up about it because I don't think it's ever changing yes I see your point but it is just

[01:10:30] like it's not achieving what they want it to achieve yeah okay yeah how about but who would

[01:10:37] have who would have been voted out who would have been voted out um well um I think see that

[01:10:41] would have also been interesting because are they gonna go with Liz because they're in

[01:10:44] an alliance of three or are they gonna turn on Charlie and Kenzie like I actually don't

[01:10:48] know what they would have done it might have gone to fire making Liz and isn't that more

[01:10:52] interesting to get to that because I kind of feel like that they would have the final four

[01:10:55] fire making like every other season yeah agreed it I mean it was happening a lot like it happens

[01:11:02] in we get it in 30 to we get it in uh yeah 30 32 does it happen in 34 no they vote a

[01:11:11] almost yeah so I mean we get it like you know pretty fairly often yeah I agree okay all right

[01:11:21] how about a question from hybrid shadow did Kenzie bring up that she was in most if not

[01:11:28] every single tribal council well she didn't go to she didn't go to sego went to tribal

[01:11:32] council that one time yeah I did not hear that she there's also a split tribal council

[01:11:38] there's a good chance she could have been voted out next have they gone one more time or maybe

[01:11:42] maybe it would have been Q who's to say there's still so much discourse about whether it would

[01:11:46] have been Banu yes so I asked both Q and Tiff I'm sorry I have not asked Tiffany this question

[01:11:52] I asked Q last week Q says that Tiffany is changes her answer now he said yeah but I feel

[01:11:58] like that Q is like as we saw in the final tribal council a little bit of an unreliable

[01:12:02] narrator about things sometimes Q says different things and Kenzie said she does not think that

[01:12:11] Tiffany was going to uh vote her out Q is not a Q is a reliable if Q was a reliable narrator

[01:12:17] shouldn't he be hosting this interview with me right now didn't he take this over did say

[01:12:22] that he was coming to take uh the podcast he was firing me he was gonna rob me of an

[01:12:26] opportunity he's gonna Boston rob you Q also said in his analysis did you see the secret scene

[01:12:35] where Q like broke down all the different players in the game um it was a long time ago

[01:12:40] yeah he also said he said Kenzie she's not a puzzle saw she can't solve puzzles

[01:12:47] oh well she almost solved this one she I mean she did solve the puzzle last night

[01:12:50] um ultimately it was the combination lock that was the hard part for her right but she almost

[01:12:55] did win the um the ball thing too until she Stephen Fishback did yes yeah that cost her

[01:13:03] okay how long do you think that took because that was pretty easy I don't know

[01:13:07] I have no idea of how long I mean probably what 20 25 minutes I think I probably would never

[01:13:14] let the ball even get close to the to the rail right it was very Australian survivor

[01:13:21] piece I mean didn't they literally do that challenge on Australian survivor

[01:13:25] yes but to be fair I think the U.S. did it first in Millennials versus Gen X but it was

[01:13:29] a smaller scale yes did they do it in also um the edge of extinction did Rick Devons win this

[01:13:36] challenge I think they did a similar challenge like this I don't remember that in in that one

[01:13:41] but could be wrong okay um speaking of Rick Devons okay last season Rick Devons hosted the

[01:13:49] On Fire podcast I listened to this morning's episode of the On Fire podcast and of course

[01:13:57] a person who just starred in a commercial for The Quiet Place day one not day zero

[01:14:04] yes D.Vaidares has graduated from the On Fire podcast Jeff Probst and Jay said we have not

[01:14:12] yet decided who next season's co-host of On Fire will be who do you think is looking like

[01:14:20] they're listening I'm available I'm just kidding um I think that if it's going to be they

[01:14:25] probably should keep going with picking somebody from the season and if they're going to pick

[01:14:29] someone from this season oh do you think that they first off do you think it's on the table

[01:14:34] they would go backwards they would go prior to somebody from survivor 46 I could see them but

[01:14:41] I think if they did that they would go like old school you know pre-40 um if I had to pick

[01:14:47] one from 40 several do you think that like can you think of somebody who would be like a good

[01:14:51] addition to the podcast that would be available I kind of feel like that they would not want

[01:14:58] somebody I thought they would not want somebody from the old era I think they'd rather probably

[01:15:03] like want to ask Marianne would be very fun I think Mary would be great yeah and I think

[01:15:09] from 40s you know Q in theory would be good but I don't think he would be like a podcast kind of

[01:15:14] guy not a podcast Rob kind of guy it would be hard to get a word in I think if Q was on the

[01:15:20] podcast Charlie would be good I think I think Charlie would be very good at talking things

[01:15:23] through for sure okay how about um this has been a talking point today TS Snap says Q said

[01:15:34] voted for Kenzie based on his question about how the contestants would spend the money should this

[01:15:39] be off limits as it makes it seem uh as it seems to make the game played pointless what do you

[01:15:45] think about contestants asking the final trouble council how are you going to spend the money

[01:15:52] yeah I mean I don't think you can outlaw something like that but I don't love it myself

[01:16:01] yeah I don't love it myself but I feel like this is a bit of a throwback um now I feel like

[01:16:06] that this is like classic survivor I mean going back to the first I don't remember if it came up

[01:16:11] in survivor Borneo but I definitely remember it coming up in survivor the Australian outback

[01:16:16] yeah for sure and certainly maybe it has some origins in Ethan starting grassroots soccer

[01:16:22] right oh yeah true that so I think I think you can't put it off limits I think that it is

[01:16:27] I don't think that that I think that that should maybe be a I just don't know I feel like you

[01:16:31] should play vote based on the gameplay but um also I'm just one person and everybody has their

[01:16:37] own opinions and I don't think we can tell people how they should vote but I'm not a fan

[01:16:43] personally yeah should anybody respond uh none of your business I don't think that would get

[01:16:51] any votes actually you know what I don't know I should say this um it did come up

[01:16:56] at our final tribal yeah but um one of the finalists lied was it Romeo I shan't say for

[01:17:07] the game is a foot yeah what did you think about the super cut of all of the iconic phrases in

[01:17:14] survivor history oh um I thought there was some off-the-wall picks yeah there was some

[01:17:20] off-the-wall picks and you know there's some people that are gonna be so insufferable other

[01:17:25] you know placement in that but I think that they could have gone I know I didn't love it but it was

[01:17:31] I know I feel like this more for YouTube you know okay maybe it's an off-season but several

[01:17:36] is iconic several is iconic but did they run into the ground not for me okay it's still

[01:17:44] it's still fun to say but I feel like they're worried getting a little

[01:17:47] a little overboard on no one believed Jalinsky including me yeah when his interview came out

[01:17:54] with you did did you believe him when you were listening to that no I did not

[01:17:59] and I thought he was uh delulu yes but was he correct he was correct never doubt never

[01:18:05] doubt Jalinsky I'll never forget the moment I'm just gonna say this even though I shouldn't

[01:18:11] but when I met Jalinsky for the first time he was very nice but he had to take a dump

[01:18:17] unlike Tim he took a dump in Zach and I's room he left his wallet there and flew back to

[01:18:26] Las Vegas without it and then when I saw episode one I was like I get it now I get it

[01:18:33] it yeah yeah okay okay um this is a question for me I guess how does it feel to have won the

[01:18:47] draft are you going to force someone to eat chapstick so we did have our draft so this

[01:18:52] typically we have a survivor podcaster draft that's with six people um many of the people

[01:19:00] in the draft have won uh there's huya and taryn and chapelle uh and leona and

[01:19:12] shannon gus and even survivor 47's own asia welch but this season uh asia was not available

[01:19:21] to participate in the draft and so I stepped in and in Asia's place I won the draft now it

[01:19:30] came by way of a grenade I did not have kenzie but taryn had jalinsky and the draft rules

[01:19:38] stipulate that if you have the grenade the only way you can get un-grenaded like chapelle did

[01:19:43] with maryann was you have to have your other two people make the finals and have the winner

[01:19:48] and taryn's other two people were jalinsky and mariah neither of which qualified uh for

[01:19:55] the finals yeah that's so I had I had charlie really could have won yeah well if it weren't

[01:20:04] for maria I had charlie and tiffany I had charlie and tiffany right and liz you know what

[01:20:09] liz who gave me fourth place this is a good omen for asia then yes is it not yeah are

[01:20:15] you gonna draft her for well so then i get to decide the draft order for survivor 40 several

[01:20:20] shouldn't you replace you with somebody else shouldn't I replace me with some else

[01:20:27] in there she'd be chaotic as hell well I think people like to see me draft no oh I thought you

[01:20:32] didn't want to because you didn't do it for years and this I didn't do it I didn't do it

[01:20:36] for years but you know no that you know what it's your spot you take it and you know what

[01:20:41] you put shannon where you don't she doesn't want to be in the draft order that's why

[01:20:46] Shannon Gus is not one yet yeah I know she almost won with our season she got three actually when

[01:20:52] we were listening to your draft of ours it was crazy because chapelle had to choose between

[01:20:57] because he had Zach he had he had the grenade or he had to choose between he had marianne

[01:21:03] he had to choose between mike and jackson and we were like this will decide the draft

[01:21:07] that is crazy yeah he chose right he chose wise chose wisely okay all right what else is on your

[01:21:16] mind anything no this was a this was a great season um we're only prepared to do this every

[01:21:23] 10 years or so we I don't think oh my god because we could use a break

[01:21:29] um great coverage all season have been keeping up um you do good work and you know what people

[01:21:34] should subscribe to be a patron yeah well I appreciate that omer because we're doing a lot

[01:21:40] of great stuff over on patreon this week had a great conversation about australian survivor did

[01:21:48] you hear that they said that they're going to do a season of australian survivor versus the

[01:21:53] world or the usa I don't know what you're talking about mike I ain't heard nothing about

[01:21:58] it so I got together with shannon gus and mike bloom and we talked about what we know

[01:22:04] and speculated quite a bit about what it could look like we spent a lot of time actually talking

[01:22:12] about I think there's been a lot of talk about like what american survivors could play we talked

[01:22:16] a lot about what australian survivors could play as well isn't it all like going to be like a

[01:22:22] shawn shawn shawny shawn maybe but that'd be a good twist could they get shawn from survivor

[01:22:30] 45 well yeah he would love to have a second chance I'm sure I'm sure he actually would

[01:22:37] this is redemption baby and get hannah rose on there while we're at it and just just don't tell

[01:22:42] her where they're going yeah because really what if this whole season is just like propaganda

[01:22:46] for australian survivor of life we brought in the best america had to offer let's see how

[01:22:53] they fare can we can we do okay so let's cast the american side then we have shawn

[01:22:59] hannah rose I want wendy joe on there personally oh about big wendy um okay sure we can do that

[01:23:08] and then I do want stacey powell on there because I feel like we're really setting this

[01:23:11] up to be her season because everybody else will quit yeah brad I like brad from survivor or

[01:23:19] 41 yes yes yes yes see bing bong bing bong gets it you know I want to hear the other

[01:23:26] picks there too so yeah pretty exciting okay so we did that over on the patron feed also on friday

[01:23:35] I've been doing the survivor feedback show with the patrons every friday at 3 p.m and so we'll do

[01:23:41] that again tomorrow and take calls from the patrons how about that that's wonderful I think

[01:23:47] I went on one of those one time back in the day maybe I'll stop by again way back when okay

[01:23:52] all right omer what's coming up for you um nothing really I've been doing a lot of working

[01:24:00] which actually you know what for the first time in a long time I love my job so how about that

[01:24:05] wow that's great yeah what changed uh well I got a new job oh okay new job I hated my job

[01:24:13] when I went on survivor I was a resident and I thought it was the worst I was like I shouldn't

[01:24:18] have done this job it sucks and then I got a new job and I love it now yeah so that's great

[01:24:24] okay well that's great to hear well what are you doing differently you're not a resident

[01:24:29] um I think that the atmosphere of work is much better and I get paid better and there's

[01:24:34] more appreciation and there's not as much yeah better better pay and not as overworked

[01:24:41] okay that's the difference that's good I still put down a lot of animals and I don't enjoy

[01:24:46] that okay okay good good to hear okay um getting some questions about will there be a finale

[01:24:54] know-it-alls so Stephen is traveling uh this week and so let's what I can't promise anything

[01:25:01] I think that the plan is we're going to check in with Stephen next week and see

[01:25:04] what there is to talk about next week and uh whether or not we have enough to do a

[01:25:10] finale know-it-alls with Stephen and so if Stephen's up for it has some thoughts about

[01:25:15] survivor 46 or beyond we'll catch up with Stephen and then the plan is that's what that's

[01:25:21] a traitorous comment even like am I not Stephen passing enough glasses nerd I thought this was

[01:25:30] pretty good yeah this was fishback levels to me hmm wait is that why I have to go to the

[01:25:36] bathroom right now don't pull a jalinsky okay leave make sure you have your wallet with you

[01:25:43] okay yes people also want a finale club condo hopefully we can connect with chapelle

[01:25:48] next week and keep track of anything that goes on over the weekend do you think that the survivor

[01:25:51] 46 drama do you think it will subside and people go back to or you think it'll be

[01:25:58] continue to be pretty wild for a while I hope that it is wild enough but not like

[01:26:05] Voldemort levels of wild if you know what I mean but like wild enough to be interesting

[01:26:11] but not too personal that's what I want okay yeah just you know keep it relevant also starting

[01:26:16] next Wednesday we're going to be having a summer of survivor here on RHAP Mike Bloom and Shannon

[01:26:23] Gus are going to be headlining our weekly survivor coverage on a variety different topics

[01:26:29] we'll do drafts we'll do panels some think tanks along the way so we'll be doing that on

[01:26:35] Wednesdays all through the survivor off season so I'm very excited about what we have

[01:26:40] planned there and more that's the tip of the iceberg is that without play a list coming back

[01:26:47] we might do that but I don't think it's going to be exclusively one thing oh someone in the chat

[01:26:53] asked if I think the fishy is underappreciated yes and I would like to take this opportunity

[01:27:01] in fact to call out Stephen Fishback because for old I'm gonna dig up some old scars here

[01:27:08] so back in the day he was giving out fishies and he said for one of the episodes if I do recall

[01:27:15] correctly episode 9 he said I should give it to Omar but he he'll understand he won't he won't

[01:27:22] really want it I'll just give it to these other people as a co-fishy and I said

[01:27:29] nice like I appreciate the fishy and I was robbed and now on the fact checker list

[01:27:35] you don't have it yeah yeah well did you see that we started giving out the

[01:27:42] fishy award digitally to the players this season I did not see that yes that's wonderful

[01:27:49] is it like a little statue of a fish with his face on it I don't think it has Stephen's

[01:27:53] face but it is a statue of a fish oh but it should it should have it should be a statue

[01:27:59] of a fish without workshop something but that would be fun if it had his face on it and also

[01:28:04] Stephen with gills and a cloaca like my god I think it's just a fish with glasses

[01:28:11] okay that's good enough yeah okay um well Omar thank you so much for stopping by doing this

[01:28:18] this was a great treat and I'm so excited we got to talk about everything that's going on

[01:28:24] likewise thank you for having me yeah and if you missed it check out my exit interviews

[01:28:27] with the final five I thought everybody had very interesting things to say

[01:28:31] about the game and then patrons I will talk to you on Friday at 3 p.m Eastern thank you

[01:28:38] so much for joining us take care everybody have a good one bye with lucky landslides

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