Survivor Global host Shannon Guss speaks to Australian Survivor Titan Eden Porter about episode 4 of Survivor 48. The two chat about the idol, revote and vote steal rules and permutations, the possible dynamics of the swap, chocolate milk, jet skis and more.[00:00:00] Wir sind Teresa und Nemo und deshalb sind wir zu Shopify gewechselt. Die Plattform, die wir vor Shopify verwendet haben, hat regelmäßig Updates gebraucht, die teilweise dazu geführt haben, dass der Shop nicht funktioniert hat. Endlich macht unser Nemo Boards Shop dadurch auch auf den Mobilgeräten eine gute Figur und die Illustrationen auf den Boards kommen jetzt viel, viel klarer rüber, was uns ja auch wichtig ist und was unsere Marke auch ausmacht. Starte deinen Test nur heute für 1 Euro pro Monat auf shopify.de slash radio.
[00:00:27] Wir sind Teresa und Nemo und deshalb sind wir zu Shopify gewechselt. Die Plattform, die wir vor Shopify verwendet haben, hat regelmäßig Updates gebraucht, die teilweise dazu geführt haben, dass der Shop nicht funktioniert hat. Endlich macht unser Nemo Boards Shop dadurch auch auf den Mobilgeräten eine gute Figur und die Illustrationen auf den Boards kommen jetzt viel, viel klarer rüber, was uns ja auch wichtig ist und was unsere Marke auch ausmacht.
[00:00:53] Starte deinen Test nur heute für 1 Euro pro Monat auf shopify.de slash radio. Survivor. Survivor. Survivor. 21 South African. 12 Ordinary Australians. Survivor.
[00:01:21] 1 Million pounds. Me. Shikali. I'm Spur. Survivor. Survivor. Survivor. Survivor.
[00:01:51] Survivor. So many questions about the rules of Survivor that we still don't need to try to work out within rules we don't know with endless caveats, like assuming these are the rules. And to do that I have someone who has promised me that this is okay and that he wants to be here. He is, he says a failed Titan, but I don't agree at all. He's a Titan, Australian Survivor player, one of my great friends. It is the great Eden Porter. Eden, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me, Janet.
[00:02:18] And what an episode to come and swap some serious statistics with you today because there is a lot going on with the breakdowns. I can just sense from your energy that you're putting out into the world, this concept of stealing votes and extra votes and using idols. I know there's a spreadsheet somewhere in your life that's just burning a hole through your computer at the moment. So I cannot wait to start breaking this down and get into it. Thank you so much for having me on, Janet. Love it.
[00:02:47] I wish it was as sophisticated as a spreadsheet, but it has been over the last day. I went to sleep at 3am last night and I had a migraine just trying to work it out. And I tweeted a lot of parts of my thought process that then kept being superseded by new information. So every tweet is wrong. And I think we've got to the right thing now, but I'm kind of wondering if tomorrow I'll be like, but wait, because at every stage I'm like, wait, no, it's not a spreadsheet. It's been literally scribbling in my notebook, just like the votes and then casting out votes and then stealing votes and then wondering what votes happen on the revote.
[00:03:17] The revote rules as they pertain to extra votes and votes steals and idols are so complicated. I mean, this is a five person tribe with three advantages that are all incredibly finicky. I mean, yeah, the target revote conundrum is again, two weeks in a row, quite a time. All I'm imagining Shannon is you in a room scrolling on the walls, no votes and extra votes make Shannon something, something crazy.
[00:03:46] Don't mind if I do, but it's not just that. It's also, it's the, it's the non Julia Roberts meme. Again, the gift, not the best news, not Claire Danes and not Julia Roberts. Literally me till 3am last night. We just like, what time did you come to bed? I'm like, you don't understand what happens if an extra vote is stolen and happens to a target. We're going to talk through it. And I just assure you, it will be painful. Um, Eden, big episode though. It was a fun episode before you get to the fact that it's like the game is fundamentally broken in probably multiple ways.
[00:04:16] Like this was a good time. This was a bit of a heist. Camilla and Kyle, the holes Alliance pulled off quite a, quite a sting. A couple of questions. Firstly, how did you enjoy it? But firstly, before that you are a movie connoisseur. Literally holes is the best movie of all time. Right. I know it's a leading question. I don't care. I'm like the 50 vote. Um, terminology are telling you that that's holes is definitely a movie Shannon. It is. It is a movie that's out there in the world. You don't like holes and enjoy holes.
[00:04:44] I could take a leaf holes mate. Oh my God. You've kicked off the podcast. I'm sorry Shannon. I'm monologuing about the re-vote rule for the next hour and you're just simply kicked off. It's been nice to talk to Eden. I'll see you later. Okay. Bye. Beep. Look, holes is fine. Holes is great. Holes is not in my top 10. Oh, you're breaking my heart. Holes is, I don't even have it on DVD. I'm telling you that right now. Okay. Well, that's fine because who has a DVD player anymore? Eden. Yeah. Well, okay. That says a lot. Okay.
[00:05:13] You're banned from the podcast after this podcast, but I guess survivor related. Did you like what the Holes Alliance did though? I did. I did. I loved what the Holes Alliance did because this comes down to the subtle art of lying Shannon. This is what we like in the game of survivor. It is planting enough seeds in the ground to let them grow and to not be too forceful because we've all seen it a million times where people come out there and they try and lie.
[00:05:39] They try and come out and say, oh yeah, we actually hate each other. And this person's terrible and they're no good. But the subtleness of these guys to just plant enough doubt to make someone like, make someone seem like they're on the bottom, make someone seem like, oh, we don't know each other that well. And having that awareness to go, you know what? We can't go off and just talk together by ourselves and get our plan straight and know what's happening. We have to be separate all the time.
[00:06:07] And then once they want to go and speak as a three, then we can have our chat, but we've got to let them do that and project that out onto us. I just thought every step of that journey from once they merged, they had a plan and they stuck to it the entire time. And it was honestly, chef's kiss, how it ended up like falling together. But it all started just with that really subtle lying about, oh yeah, I'm like Camilla's like, oh yeah, I'm on the bottom. And I was definitely first to go. And Kyle just being like, oh, look.
[00:06:35] And it was the way that he disagreed with her that Sean said as well. It's like, oh, I wouldn't say you're on the bottom, bottom. Because that's what someone would say to sort of confirm that, oh no, no, we're actually okay. It was just, it was, it was the perfect double bluff. It was really good. I loved it. Yeah. It's like what we were saying with Mary last week about what we always say with people who are bluffing an idol, but then they clearly like, well, you know, threatening with the idol, which is what someone without an idol will do so that you don't vote for them. Like Mary, as she said, committed to the bit and to lie well,
[00:07:03] you have to literally imagine that that is your reality. So in that reality, she has an idol. What would an idol, someone with an idol do? They would go to the water. They might be less scared. And that then scares people more because it's a more realistic life. And Camilla and Kyle did that so well. And I completely agree. The way that Kyle was like kind of high push, like, no, I love you. It's like the kind of way someone might deny that when like you really were on the bottom and they did it so well. And I feel like as well, Camilla really pushed Thomas into this.
[00:07:31] I want to say unforced error not to play his vote steal. He, I mean, I think the thing is like he had his reasons, but the reasons were around. I don't want people to suspect me because she's putting suspicion on him. And we'll talk about it. The different limited ways that the vote steal might've worked, which again will have endless caveats of how the vote still works in a situation like this. But I definitely think you, yeah, you want to play it to give yourself a fighting chance is where I've gotten to with Thomas and the vote steal. And I think that the first error was not sharing that information with his allies to begin with.
[00:08:01] The second error was not eventually sharing it to try help your group. And I think that what's so interesting to me is we do see this. We said, we saw it last week with Justin not sharing his information, but seeing it in what I see as this looming SIVA-Lagi war of which this was the first battle. And I think SIVA will win this war because they've been so transparent with their information. And that has given them all these tools in the game that Thomas didn't use. It only puts suspicion on him. Whereas Camille and Kyle had Mitch's information where that's helped, that helped them choose a target because they knew that Mitch got a blocker vote
[00:08:31] and they knew that Thomas could have something like that. That would be a problem for them in the future. And they use it all so, so well. So we see the power of that information that SIVA views that Lagi clearly have not. Yeah. I think that, I think you hit a couple of really good points there. So one is when do you share information and when don't you share information? Because obviously we've seen it in the last couple of episodes, when people tell something and it comes out and it blows up. I think the rule has to be, if you get an idol, don't tell anyone about the idol.
[00:08:59] The idol is something that you can keep to yourself and that people expect you to keep to yourself and you can bring it out when you need it. I think if you have an advantage or you've lost your vote, it is advantageous to tell your alliance and your community so you can plan around it as a group, as a team to get you through the next section. I think that's sort of the rules that we should sort of walk around because it's going to be more strategically beneficial for your alliance. Other people, they're thinking, okay, we know you don't have a vote, but how do we maneuver that and what do we need to do now? Or yes, you can steal a vote.
[00:09:27] We can get that and use that to our advantage. The other thing that I thought, and I thought Camilla did this, I actually think she did it accidentally, but it actually worked perfectly. When she started throwing Thomas under the bus and saying, oh, dropped all the journey information and made everyone suspicious of Thomas, I think that was fantastic. But what it ended up doing was making him double down on his lie. And as a result, it made him go, well, I don't want to play this now
[00:09:55] because then I will have to come out and then I will have to admit to them that I'm lying. So by doing that, by putting it in there, she made this little barrier of, well, now if he's got something, if he has to use it, he's going to blow up relationships. So now he's second guessing using it. Whereas if she had never said that or never done it, he might be more likely to actually play it and go, look guys, I've actually got this. I'm just going to use this tonight without having to double. Because as soon as you double down on that lie, it becomes harder and harder and harder to tell the truth.
[00:10:23] Once he's saying to them when it's just the California girls there, no, no, no, well, she's definitely lying. She's definitely lying. Then to come back a couple of hours later and be like, oh, actually, no, she was telling the truth. It becomes harder and harder. And I actually think she initially did that just to try and create a crack in them, but it worked perfectly with making him double think about using it. I think it was really good. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you can ascribe like the specific intentionality, but I do think like the general premise of like burying him when he clearly told a lie was going to work out in some way and it did work for her.
[00:10:53] I do think that in terms of telling information, like with an idol, I do still think that there's utility to like creating a group with a resource say that and it worked until it didn't. But push really came to shove quickly on Vula, but especially with communally necessary advantages where you can't play a vote steal without other numbers, where if you lose a vote, you are more reliant on other numbers. These are numerical advantages that rely on allies to a degree. And I think a really big part of this as well is that Laghi and Siva were so unlikely
[00:11:23] to lose challenges. I mean, again, even the strongest tribe we've seen in a while can't win on Vula, let alone Vula. So yeah, it's a curse. And it's also probably lack of flint and supplies at all and no tarp. And it feels like there's a lot of, you know, very practical reasons why this was hard for Vula. And Thomas talks about that in the exit interview. But I do think that you have to rely on the fact that like, you're probably going to win. And also Thomas has said he did want to work with the California girls against her. And that's the way that it kind of went for him. So those are your allies. Like you, he had to share that.
[00:11:52] And then there was like, he'd already made the mistake of not sharing it, but then not getting to the beach and being like, I do have this thing that I can use for all of us. Like how mad were they going to be? Where else were they going to go? Like at that point, maybe if it's even like a, you know, minor issue, it's still better to kind of have the information to be like, I'm using this as a team. So I think it was a big issue not to, not to tell them about it. And I do think as well, his lie was that he could opt out such a clear lie. I mean, he says that Mitch is lying, but Mitch, she says that Mitch, Mitch told them he had a block of vote,
[00:12:22] which feels very true. He told them his advantage, probably showed it. So they know that Mitch is telling the truth. She tells him that Mitch has lost a vote, which also feels like something more true because why would you lie about that? Like it's anything a bad thing. Whereas opting out is so much the clear lie. Like it's so clear that he, that he lied because that's what you would say if you still can't opt out to just like put yourself on neutral ground. So it was really clear that he had lied. Exactly. Exactly. And did you want to talk about this idea of this train wreck tribe and the concept
[00:12:51] that is, is this by design? It is the cast. Obviously we know that everyone gets selected into their cast. Everything. Are they, do they purposely make one tribe, the train wreck tribe? So we get them whittled down and then we can swap it up and change it up. And maybe there's people in the other tribes that will be around there for longer. And they go, you know what, this is going to be great television because there's all these crazy big people and they're all going to eat each other apart. And it's going to be really fun. It's going to make the pre merge really fun. Or is it just the domino effect of you don't have fire,
[00:13:20] you lose the first challenge and then suddenly you don't have your fire. And then you, you can't build a good shelter or get food because you are scrambling every day. If you think about how, how every, every day almost, or every second day you're going to travel, you're doing your scramble. You don't have time to go guys, let's just take in a couple of hours and build the shelter up because you are scrambling the whole time. So when, when does it seem important to sit down and build a shelter? And it was just their faces when they saw what they were walking into. And the quote of like,
[00:13:49] this looks like this place has been deserted for weeks. Yeah. Well, I think that that's what they said. They said that they can't, they they've been in survival mode for so long that they haven't had time. Like if you're winning every day, not to mention having suppliers to do it and you are getting better night sleep and you're comfortable, you can also work harder the next day, let alone having the time, let alone not being a tribal council. So like, that the winning tribes yet. So I think that I've always thought,
[00:14:15] like what I'm thinking now is they don't care to stop to prevent a disaster tribe. Maybe other than like the Vula tribe designation was crazy, but I don't know how much they realize or at least care about the fact that they have always compounded with a lack of rewards in, you know, these combined challenges with a lack of the Flint, which is probably the most damning thing with the fact that then people start sitting out there, wherever they want from the challenge. It's just like, I mean, it's speaks for itself.
[00:14:45] And the fact that a strong tribe could land in the situation, not even experience it for a week, but literally land there for one night and have it be really detrimental to them. That's what's weird. It is, it is one day. They've got a full five people. It is one day and they just don't sleep very well. And they're not eating anything for a day. And it just all falls apart. It literally, just the wheels came off. It was wild. It's kind of like the haves and have not have nots. Yes. And like twist. Yeah. But like less, you know, obviously not stated,
[00:15:14] but when you see the difference and I feel like they put the, the least physical tribes on these terrible beaches. Like I know Vula they said was the same as like, maybe like a Yarnu, like often Tika, like they're often on the same really bad beach compared to where we saw that David was like getting all of this food. I don't know that that's on every beach. It's not fair. This is what I mean. Is this something that they're going, you know what? We're going to give them the bad beach, the cursed beach, the beach that's built on an Indian burial ground or something like that. It's been cursed from day one,
[00:15:43] because that's the only explanation that rings true to me, Jen. Yeah. It's unfair for the people who get in that situation and whose game is, you know, 50, 50 of even making it to a point where anyone else is seeing a tribal council. And it sucks for this Vula tribe who didn't even lose all the challenges and be compounded to this point and go to the point where they, we don't have any rewards. Very, very unfortunate. But let's talk about, let's talk about kind of how the votes feel, the extra vote and the idol interact in this five person tribe with three
[00:16:13] advantages, advantages, because to talk about like Miller and Kyle here, it feels felt like they had it on lock, right? Like they threw both of their advantages at it. It's been confirmed that Kyle did use the extra vote. And I mean, it's been stated, but what it means was that they could not lose extra vote, vote steal aside. If it's just three versus there now, three votes, they can't lose because either what will happen happened, which is that Kyle wins on the idol, or it goes to a three, three tie where at a rock draw,
[00:16:41] immune Kyle and target Camilla are both immune from rocks and can just be like, you guys either go to rocks Shaheen and Joe, or you turn on Thomas. So I think that they were right to throw all of their advantages at this. I know that there's been questions around like, was the extra vote wasted? You know, Kyle thought that he was going to be the target and he thought that, you know, he could just use his idol, but I do feel like they, they couldn't know who the target would be. It was something that the California girls were even disagreeing on.
[00:17:09] And it's Camilla's extra vote to save herself. Like you wouldn't want to leave that open. It's more about seeing the next day. And I guess, hoping to win challenges in what is a strong tribe where you are very close to emerge. So I thought that this was the right thing to do in a survival situation. How do you feel about the way that they kind of threw trinkets at it to win the day? So I think there was a couple of things that happened that really opened the door for them as well. Like when, when Camilla saw the guys going through Kyle's bag, that is a big indication that they're looking at targeting him for the vote
[00:17:39] and that it's going to move forward and that they didn't think they found anything. They're like, no, that's, that's, that's all good. I think that she then has that information of they're really targeting him and looking at him. And now they think they've looked in his bag and they haven't really found it. By the way, that was a, that was a very poor search of a bag. Can I just say that right now, Shannon, that was a squeeze and grab and move on. Absolutely terrible. And the fact that he put it in his shoe, he put it in his shoe and you know what they say about shoes. You see,
[00:18:07] you put it down near the toe because criminals, they just check the heel and then they move on. That's what happens at the beach when you put it down. Yeah, exactly. So where, you know, when you put your wallet in your shoe, no, at the beach. Oh, come on. You've got to, you've got to watch more Seinfeld. You're missing all these references. Oh, I'm so sorry. That's so unfair. That's so unfair. Can I give you friends references from the one where they went to the beach? We can. Yeah. It's a classic side.
[00:18:35] It's a classic Seinfeld bit of putting your wallet in your shoe. I know I choose not to run. I know these presses are making me thirsty. That makes that part. Well, you only know that because I wore a shirt for an entire season. I already knew that one. I got that one. Don't worry about it. No, but back to the point at hand. Wait, fun story, by the way, for everyone who doesn't know the fact that Eden actually met Jerry Seinfeld and said to him, the whole time I was there and Seinfeld was like, okay. Cool.
[00:19:04] And then he can't continue walking out the door with his hat on. I was like, not a big fan. You were like, you are my whole life. That would be like, if I met Taylor Swift and was like, I'm alive because of you. And she was like, okay. Just like scenes on you. Cool story though. Yeah. Cool story. Cool story. But back to the point at hand, I thought that was a big tell. I thought that was interesting. I thought the other thing they did really well, Camilla instantly said, okay, you take your,
[00:19:32] you're going to take my extra vote because you're the one with the idol and you're going to play the idol, which is going to protect you from being the split vote where in a result that it's got the same amount of ties in there, you can't vote. So you can't have your two votes. So giving it to the person that had the idol, I thought that was another thing that they'd really thought about. I thought that was brilliant. And just to, just to be like, you know what? I'm all in on this. I could, this could go home, but let's just, let's just put all our trinkets together and use them. It's the right philosophy. It's the fact that they, and there was,
[00:20:02] I heard read a few people out there saying like, oh, I don't think Camilla should have like called out Tom in front of everyone about the journey and all this sort of stuff and putting it out into the world. But I actually think in that situation, they were just throwing everything at the wall. They were throwing everything. Every single thing they could. And I think that's what you have to do when you're in that situation. Interestingly enough, I actually think the boys actually probably played this with a little too much confidence because I'm sorry, a three versus two is a really,
[00:20:32] like is a really dangerous like vote. And it is, it is really hard, especially with all these trinkets in the game. You don't know who's been on journeys. You don't know what people have. So it is really dangerous. So to be as cocky, not cocky, but to be as confident as they were, I think the correct way to play that from those guys would have been in a similar vein to what, what Camilla and stuff did is don't come at as a, as a, as a three come at it is look, I know I'm on the bottom of, of these three.
[00:21:01] So if there is anything and then try and try and create something where there could be a crack and make someone else the swing vote. And then at least give those guys some confidence to go like, Oh, maybe we've got something here. Then maybe they don't play both their, both their advantages. Maybe you can sort of break it down that way. So I think the boys played it with so much confidence that the, the other two knew the holes Alliance knew we have to do everything right now. Or we, our game is over and there is nothing, there is nothing holding the back. They would have, they would have gone to rocks. That's fine. Yeah. It would have been totally fine for them.
[00:21:30] They've got nothing to lose. A hundred percent. They threw everything at it. Kind of like a two person David tribe or kind of like Stanley Yelnits and Hector Zeroni, right. Teaming up to throw everything out of plan. And I thought it was really good. And to be fair, like you say it's a three, two, Bianca went on a, on a journey that Camilla went on. That was lose or gain a vote. So to use the vote steal just on the threat of her having an extra vote to take it to a three, three where it'll be two for them.
[00:21:59] V one in a rock situation where they have that leverage that in itself, I think is really dicey. Yeah. So I think that they did really well to, to, to seem like they had nothing because they acted really desperate, which I think was really good, but there was never any chance here. I thought of them turning on each other. Like Rob talked about the, like a prisoner's dilemma, which it's not because in this situation, I want to talk about a different prisoner's dilemma separately in this, in this podcast, but for them first prize is, you know, winning together and not turning on each other. And more importantly, Kyle is immune.
[00:22:27] So he's never turning on Camilla because he knows he's going to be completely safe. And Camilla turning on Kyle is never going to work. Like that actually would be good because it's what happened. It would protect them if they all vote for Kyle. So they had enough ammo to throw all of their trinkets at it. And I think they did it really, really well, but I feel like we need to get into the rules discussion before we talk about, because there's so many, there's so many caveats, so many things. Where to even start? We are Teresa and Nemo. And so we are to Shopify. The platform,
[00:22:56] the we before Shopify used, has used to have regularly updates, which have sometimes led to the shop, that the shop didn't work. Endlich makes our Nemo Boards Shop also on the mobile devices a good figure. And the illustrations on the boards come now very, very clear, what is us also important and what our brand also makes us feel. Start your test now today for 1€ per month on Shopify. Spotify.de slash radio. So, okay, so you mentioned that
[00:23:25] Camilla gave her extra vote to Kyle. And for people who might get confused, what's been opined about this is that Kyle's going to be immune. He's going to play the idol himself. So it means that if Camilla's the target and can't use her extra vote, Kyle will have it. He'll be immune. He won't, he will definitely be able to re-vote because he will be immune and he can use the extra vote. I don't understand this because I think that vote steal aside, if you have an extra vote based on the 47 re-vote rules, which actually have thrown a cat amongst the pigeons in ways I clearly didn't anticipate at the time and it's making me rethink
[00:23:55] a lot of things. But if you have an extra vote and so it's like a 2v1 versus the other target, shouldn't you get to still vote? Because in a disparity where it's 1v0 because someone has lost their vote, you maintain the 1v0 disparity. So surely you should, and a 2v1 disparity, maintain a 1v0 disparity even if you are a target. Why not? Maybe they just don't know. They clearly just don't know, but that makes sense for consistency, surely. But, okay, so there's another thing as well. The difference between an extra vote and a stealer vote in terms of the vote
[00:24:24] because you are using someone else's vote in that regard. Yes. So it's not two of your votes. Yes. I completely agree. I've got a lot of thinking now on Thomas stealing a vote and what might happen if both he, say, and Camilla's votes as targets are negated and I feel like Thomas would lose two votes. Now I've gotten comments like, but wouldn't he have the votes because it would be actually compared to the other target, Camilla, 2v0. He should have a 2v0 vote disparity,
[00:24:52] but I think it's a 1v1 target v target disparity, but he just owns both votes so he loses both votes. But am I wrong? I don't know, but all of my thinking is based on the thing that's right for me and now I'm going to have to endlessly caveat both situations. So that's the first thing. It gets so complicated with the stolen vote. Okay, here's what broke my brain at 3 a.m. last night. Okay, hit me. Hit me, Shannon. I'm ready for it. If it's true that you can use your extra vote on the re-vote if you're a target because of the 2v1 vote disparity.
[00:25:22] So in this situation, say Kyle isn't immune and he has the extra vote and Thomas steals one of his votes. Okay, Thomas steals one of his votes. They are both targets, but one of Kyle's two votes should still be applicable because through a re-vote because of the 2v1. But Thomas has stolen one of Kyle's votes. Which vote carries? Yes. Is it the votes
[00:25:51] that Thomas stole or is it Kyle's remaining vote? Because again, in this situation, one of them as a target, Thomas' vote and one of Kyle's votes are negated, but the one extra vote is live. Did Thomas steal that vote or did Kyle maintain that vote? And this will have to be like arbitrarily decided by what is the more powerful advantage. Like, are they going to decide extra votes are the most important thing like Thomas steals Kyle's organic vote, but Kyle gets the extra vote.
[00:26:21] Or is it vote steals are more important? They supersede extra votes. So Thomas steals a live vote and Kyle is left with the target vote which doesn't carry. Which one is it? It's very important to re-vote rules, Eden. What we need to do, we need to get a poker player in here because obviously poker hands have different values, right? So we need to know that like a three of a kind beats a two of a kind and a four house beats this. So we need that hierarchy for our advantages. We need to know in terms of the
[00:26:51] advantage hierarchy which is the four of the kind which is four of the kind which is a four house and which one beats which because these are the things we need, Jeff, these are the things we need to know. The fact that we were so close to going back to the rule book two episodes in a row where Jeff is like uh-huh, uh-huh is very, very concerning and something that I want to talk about but okay, another thing as well is like I've always assumed the vote steal steals one vote so that if you have like if Kyle has two votes
[00:27:20] it steals one vote. Other people have thought maybe it negates your entire ability to vote. I don't think so either because it's called steal a vote. It's not steal voting. Yeah, but the beware advantage if you haven't found beware but you've given up your vote you give up your whole voting potential but then I feel like stolen votes or shot in the dark even if you have two votes I feel like you'll be able to vote and then you're shot in the dark. Like I feel like I think that's what it should be but is it? Yes, that's what we don't know because theoretically you should be able
[00:27:49] to steal someone's vote use your vote for your shot in the dark which is what it's used and then your normal vote is their vote. That should be legal. In my mind that makes complete sense. But the things that make sense are only one part of the equation. I feel like okay I when the 47 re-vote rules happened about people like you know targets being able to vote if their other target doesn't have a vote I thought this is good because it was always based on the fallacy of like you both
[00:28:19] can't vote. You can't vote for each other so now neither of you can vote. It's like no but you can vote for each other because what if there's a vote disparity what if it's a three person vote and I thought this is for the best and it's been just simply two weeks of this Eden really actually eight days but in that time I think I'm starting to change my mind into what I listen to the Future Path Survivor podcast and they write stuff here that Brian and Josh do and they have like what's called the up for execution style of voting which was the pre 47 vote rules which is just like most disparities aside however many people are in the tie aside
[00:28:49] if you're up for execution on the re-vote you just sit it out and maybe that is better and maybe we go back to gaming it in our little ways where we then start to factor in who does and doesn't have votes and how that works you know in terms of like how we can utilize that for the people that are up for execution maybe that is the better thing because there have been so many issues just in the last two weeks alone now to be fair in the last weeks alone we've had well in the last four weeks of the show we've had six forced journeys where people have to play the game all related to like lost stolen
[00:29:19] extra block votes we've had two tribals with one hit shot in the dark they all have a shot in the dark so at any point that can come into play three advantages in play today and a lost vote last week it is a lot but my question is like are we going to have to keep finding these finicky little solutions around extra vote is more important than vote steal or vice versa or this is what makes sense about when people you know are voting as targets but then can't or can go to a rock draw are we going to have to keep solving the issues as they come up and breaking my brain or does it just make more sense to have
[00:29:48] the pre-47 rules even if it was based on seemingly a logical fallacy and then but it's cleaner and then we can continue to try and like exploit it as we did for decades is that better now everything I know is a lie all it should be is and it should just be if it's a tie vote then you can only vote for those people and those people don't vote that's that's that's what it should be but it didn't but it doesn't make sense it's not fair
[00:30:18] to the vote disparity but maybe that doesn't matter no and maybe people can exploit it then they should be advantaged by that correct this is that's that's just what it should be it's like it doesn't matter how many votes you've stolen it doesn't matter how many votes are stolen it doesn't matter how many extra votes people have it doesn't matter you are you have the same amount of votes as someone else therefore like you said you're up for execution you can no longer do anything to affect the game it is all up to everyone else they do it again if it's still drawn
[00:30:47] you go to the open forum and if that doesn't like work then Jaden just comes in and votes you out and that's fine that's what I think that's what happened I I think it's funny how quickly I folded because as recently as last week I was like it's good they do the 47 revert rules but here's how you fix it one week later I'm like enough it's broken me and I think I want to go back now I think I think maybe I want to go back but the thing is it's so complicated either way like talking through these rules is so complicated and certainly
[00:31:17] like very messed up by who votes as targets on the re-vote when there's the vote economy and like mass vote disparities and then as we talked about for decades I mean gaming gaming the type of like up for execution style voting system has always been complicated I know I messed up what Andy and Sam could do if Sierra wasn't with them on the Annika vote six months ago and it still curses my brain I've actually subsequently spoken to Andy about the fact that they were aware of that and were going to game it oh no but wait those weren't even the rules and they didn't know that at the time but like it's so complicated
[00:31:47] and I meant to be like a quote-unquote expert here and even I am like either way like it's either complicated to try game the up for execution style rules or there's so many issues apparently with the targets having votes in a vote disparity how are casuals watching the show oh they don't watch it they don't care I think the worst place to be would be like the middle level actually probably the worst place to be is me thinking about it that much I think the less you think about it is probably better
[00:32:16] the most pain yeah you're right you're getting the most pain from this show yes the more you think about it the absolutely the worse it gets okay so what was it was it game changers where they brought in that rule that no one cared about yeah yeah do you remember that that hung around for what one season two seasons it was meant to be this big thing of like no no no if it's a draw vote you're going to rocks and we're trying to create rocks and it never never happened it never panned out what about like that was them trying to stop
[00:32:46] people drawing votes and things like that are there other options where if you get a draw first round if it's a tie you just go to fire straight away let's get more fire making in Survivor Shannon every opportunity we need to make fire because that I said that last week unironically did you actually well I did we can talk about this later because I want to talk about something from last week but I did say that it's like say say and Cedric could vote for each other I thought it should go to fire and I said they're not going to fire enough and I said it unironically but the thing is it would happen it would happen
[00:33:16] every tribal council because look how often it's happening because it sees like extremes that the new era throws at it and yeah you're right the absolute worst place to be is someone who thinks equally about this it's not it's a curse Eden okay so you know the Thomas's steal a vote as well and how he ultimately decided not to play it so in his brain he's thinking okay I want to hold on to this it's going to come in real handy I actually think coming into Merge
[00:33:45] this is I think it's a false a false memory in people's heads going dating back to idols obviously you want an idol coming into Merge there's nothing better than having a hidden idol because Merge is all so crazy no one knows what's happening so it's really good to have that in your back pocket I think that memory people have that going like I want heaps of advantages I want my advantages coming into Merge I don't think a steal a vote or an extra vote in Merge is that beneficial because the majority of the time we see it again and again
[00:34:15] there is usually a consensus vote there is usually someone that gets everything piled on them with a split with someone else I don't think it is that beneficial for your game to have an extra steal a vote or an extra vote in that original Merge Tribal Council and then what's happening then you're holding it onto it until like a few more episodes down the road now you're holding onto it for like five or six episodes no use it when you need to use it when you feel like you just need to get through the next day unless you have it locked in and locked down
[00:34:45] but they didn't have this locked in and locked out they knew there was a possibility that things could go sideways so you just use advantages I think 50-50 chances at 3-3 with them having better leverage at Rocks yeah do you think the guys really realized that or were they just so did they just 100% think that they were voting for each other did they just 100% think that I think they got super super snowed but firstly I agree with you I mean I've definitely spent you know years at this point talking about how useless the extra vote is it is ironic how much it helped here
[00:35:15] and how much it would have helped next episode if they still had it so those were like again in these tiny tribes a good place to use it in terms of using the vote steal I mean the vote steal is more powerful than obviously an extra vote but it's still situational where you have to have these slim numbers how much would the vote steal have helped I've been on a journey with this Eden do you care to do you care to join me on a journey that I've been I should get my I should get my captain's head out all aboard we're going for a journey probably a pen and paper
[00:35:45] it's probably the best I'm gonna I'm gonna because I kept I kept tweeting at every single stage of my thought process and like again all the tweets are wrong because I kept getting to new places with this I really hope tomorrow I don't find a new thing I think I'm at the end of the journey I think I'm at the end of the journey and again it's based on rules that are up in the air get your dice out we're in the future because at first I felt I felt like Thomas my winner pick my final draft pick and I thought it was good that you lost for this because you would have won had you stolen the vote
[00:36:15] like they shored it up with the extra vote and the idol but had you stolen the vote I mean you don't know if Camilla's lost a vote or gained a vote but if it's like a 3-3 or 3-2 or 3-1 then you're going to a 4-2 a 4-1 a 4-0 you can split on an idol you've won the day but you didn't do it you idiot so I was like it was good that you wore that and you were the target and you like definitely would have won yes yeah that's always that's the first part of the journey only then I tweeted it idiotically
[00:36:44] stop tweeting at 2 in the morning when you think you've gotten somewhere and there's just layers to dig much like in holes I'm still trying to get through you were thinking to yourself I'll never change my opinion on this this is locked in I'm completely committed to this it's out there in the world and then you went to bed and everything was fine in the world I actually didn't go to I don't remember what stage of the journey I was asleep but I know I dreamt about it I definitely know that I and I think it became clearer to me in my dreams but anyway no I hadn't gone to sleep yet Stephen tweeted and pointed out
[00:37:13] that actually with that there was a way that they could win even with that Camilla and and Kyle could win even with the vote steal right so like okay so he so Thomas has stolen a vote so say he had stolen okay this is what Stephen tweeted say he had stolen Camilla's vote then what would happen again assuming that Thomas steals a vote and it's still Camilla's vote so it's one
[00:37:43] vote of Thomas's that he has and one vote of Camilla and because they're both targets he loses both votes now this is assuming that he doesn't have two votes to her zero that would count on a re-vote based on the disparity I'm assuming because if he if he has votes over Camilla because they're his votes and there's disparity then actually he would win and I go back to being like you idiot you could have won with the vote steal but assuming it is Camilla's vote and his own vote and they're the two targets it means that Kyle immune with two votes the extra vote and Joe and Shaheen
[00:38:13] another two votes are the only people voting in a re-vote and it's actually a 2-2 where again Camilla and Kyle are immune at the re-vote it's 2-2 and they have won the day and I thought wow yeah she's the tie he's the he's the idol in two votes and Joe and Shaheen have two votes so it's a 2-2 where they are both immune because Camilla is the target and he's immune with an idol which is the same way they would have won in like a 3-3 situation here if they targeted Camilla over Kyle
[00:38:42] so I thought oh my god poor Thomas there's no way he can win because if that's true then Camilla and Kyle can anticipate that and they can make sure that the person whose vote isn't stolen because it's very important that the first order of operations is that a vote is publicly stolen so even if you were to seal Kyle's vote Kyle could then make sure he protects Camilla with the idol and make sure Camilla has the extra vote because again we don't know I think that if Kyle has the extra vote it should still carry but we don't know again which vote would be stolen which vote would carry give it to
[00:39:12] Camilla she's going to be immune you protect Camilla and now you assure yourself the 2-2 so that stage of the journey which is I think when I went to sleep I thought wait poor Thomas even if he used the extra vote they can always game it to always get to the 2-2 and I thought poor Thomas he would have been auto-trinketed out and then stupidly Eden I tweeted that are you with me in the journey so far yeah I'm still with you Jenny but what about a 3-1 that's the point that I got to today thank you I love this Eden thank you I was talking
[00:39:43] they could you would think maybe pile a 4-0 then onto Kyle this would take a lot of really perfect information which we can think about how much information that they have I do think Kyle and Camilla have all the information because at the point when their vote is stolen they know that they're up against that and they know what they have so they can game it so we can talk about like how much information or what they're protecting against what the California boys would do but yeah if they pile 4-0 even better split 3-1 it means that yeah if there's
[00:40:13] no extra vote then they are splitting on what would be a 3-1-1 exactly and if it's not it's not a split if they have an extra vote which they do but it gives them a chance at Kyle and then Kyle has to choose between wait so am I trying to protect Camilla and shore it up on the 2-2 am I trying to protect the person whose vote was stolen to shore up the 2-2 or am I then worried they're going to pile on me or like mass split on me with a quasi split at that point assuming there's an extra vote
[00:40:42] and now maybe they just vote me out of the game and that becomes the game of chicken where it's like do I want to protect her try to get to the 2-2 or am I protecting myself because they probably will pile on me and I think they're incentivized we'll talk about it to pile on at that point the person who they haven't stolen from wait is it the person they have or haven't stolen from I got so close no at the point where sorry pile on the person they've actually stolen from which would be at that point we're talking he's either going to give
[00:41:11] Camilla the extra vote and protect her so she can get to the 2-2 or he's going to protect himself thinking well I don't even have a shot in the dark now what if they just pile fully on me in a 3-1 or a 4-0 3-1 is better and that becomes the game of chicken okay that was the journey and I think that might be the end of the journey no no no that was a great journey Shannon and I've aged so much we've all aged because it's been hours right but also in distress I'm so sorry no no no but it's I think
[00:41:40] that breaks it down really well and I think when you look at it from a point of view of let's assume that they don't have an extra vote or anything like that and then that's when I think the 3-1 comes into play because you go we're going to steal one of their votes and we're going to put one more in because we're assuming that they've only
[00:42:10] from someone does that then change who they Kyle puts the idol on because that psychologically is yeah that's the whole point is the whole point of like hang on okay now we know she doesn't have a vote anymore so is that now they're more likely to dump votes on her and go all in on her and now should I play it on her but now I'm opening up and that's when you test their resolve to be like are you game enough to put your game on the line to save her when it could be you
[00:42:40] going home and that would have been really interesting and I think that's the psychological thing to see who breaks and who blinks in that regard once they know that there is actually something happening yeah I do think Kyle say romance alliance but California girls are incentivized to do the 3-1 because again if you're just scared of an idol then you do the 2-2-2 but you know that if there's an extra vote which again is a distinct possibility because Camilla's
[00:43:10] been on the journey you know that that can get it to the 2-2 so I think that you want to do that because again without an extra vote the 3-1 is a fine split and with the extra vote it could go to a 2-2-2 which is bad anyway so either way I think the 3-1 is better and then you're hoping that Kyle doesn't play it on himself or that he doesn't protect the person whose vote was stolen but then can Kyle anticipate that that they're incentivized to do that to try and not get to the 2-2-2 and play his idol
[00:43:39] on what at that point wouldn't be a split because they'd have two votes basically where I got to in the journey was it was like wow Thomas would definitely win if he stole and it was like Thomas could win but it's a slim tiny little gap and that's where I got to in the end now I'm very glad that Thomas didn't play the vote that he didn't play it because again that would be the better
[00:44:09] move and making wrong decisions based on the fact that he hasn't shared information I much prefer when people make more human decisions or are doomed by more human decisions or are doomed by the gameplay of people rather than feeling like this whole locked up trinket game and that is what we got and I did enjoy the episode but I do think as well that trying to game all of this on rules we're not even super sure about and making assumptions about is
[00:44:39] quite difficult but where I get to is yes Thomas should have taken the shot but the shot wasn't as good as I first thought but not as dire as I second thought and it was in the middle and I think that's it but if tomorrow
[00:45:10] I get your spitting top out Shannon and spit it on the table to make sure you're not dreaming there's no more layers here there's no more layers okay but what I do think is really interesting like if you look and let's zoom out for a second and and look at all the tribes after this sort of swap happened all the fun interesting dynamics and relationship stuff is no one is talking about in terms of the
[00:45:40] breakdowns oh what if they've got this and this could be an extra vote and stuff like that people are breaking off and forming new alliances because of relationships and personal things and this to me shows you how much you don't need these other elements in the game to make it interesting people are jumping ship people are going I actually hate star I would actually want to work with you guys all these little breakdowns are not because people are going oh I'm really worried that star has got an extra vote and this person here so we have to do this it's going I
[00:46:26] on the fact that Carl was doing really good work being like me and David are really tight and being threatening to the the laggy men so that they would target him I mean they did again have this extra vote to protect in case that wasn't it but they were doing good work to make car the target to protect him and the raid was good as well it can't be 100% sure and that's why you have the insurance of the extra vote and the vote still comes into it but you're right all those human elements are why I'm enjoying it and we can talk about it because
[00:46:56] I want to talk about something from last week where Say and Cedric are incentivized to turn on each other from last week but it's a relationship between Say and Cedric and that whole thing was Cedric's battle of relationships between Justin and Say more than it was the prisoner's dilemma of incentives which
[00:47:32] I are relationships yeah I think and also you mentioned Cedric and Say that like obviously the quote and edit of the episode was Cedric saying look if there's one thing it's loyalty cut to her going I can't trust I'm out on Cedric yeah and it just shows you like if you're going to put someone in a position like this and then backtrack you never do half measures you go full
[00:48:03] back and bite you in the bottom and that's exactly what happens with their relationship just wondering if like the journey made sense I think it made sense more than the new era journeys have made sense right so that that's the barometer that we're at I think with Thomas it is very interesting because he said in the exits that he was chosen from to go on the journey that he went on obviously they game the game in terms of they probably just pick numbers and he was so much in the middle of it that they let you go which is as was talking
[00:48:52] that definitely play was maximized to like it's full detriment for these players correct yeah correct 100% and it just again if you're in an alliance you need to know and they talk
[00:49:22] only works if you have all the information that only works if you know where the extra votes are then you can process that and if you're missing key pieces of the puzzle that's when people make mistakes and we
[00:49:52] made those mistakes I think he got blinded by emotion as well he was all very much like oh no we're just going to burn this bridge and get rid of her and I think he got a bit one-sided on that regard so yeah I think honestly just for the idea of a 3-3 where you know that there's a distinct possibility she has an extra vote from the journey that you're aware of what they did on the journey just on that alone just to lose
[00:50:22] the leverage on ROTS enough would be not even all the we they don't the human element of how they did so well it's just like classic lying all of this strategy that is beyond what happens on a reboot I
[00:50:59] helped by the fact that Mitch has the information that helped them choose the target that he gave them the information that they use the information I really think Siva are going to win the
[00:51:29] is Largi look at how they are already trying to do that and then we have Starr and Eva I mean Eva particularly throwing you
[00:51:59] bonding over their and I think that adds another element to that because if push comes to shove I actually think Mitch and Chrissy said me and Mitch have never talked strategy we were never on board with each other suddenly Mitch is
[00:52:29] because you suddenly go you know what I connect way more with Cedric than I do with Chrissy and all I'm doing is sticking with her because of this arbitrary group that we got put in at the start so I think the Dave of it all Dave is aware of charity that he says she just thinks she has no idea what her position is she just thinks she's running me and everything like that and again I feel like he's super sincere with Eva in that regard so I don't
[00:52:59] think it's going to come down to a tribe split where it is going to be in all that war I if we want to this is not going to be a tribal lines move I really don't think I can see too many seeds of actual relationships what's going to happen is when they do merge and come back together
[00:53:29] it's going to be that thing where you cannot come to a consensus vote because whoever you connected to everyone and that's when things start blowing up and that's when it's going to become really interesting but yeah I don't think it's going
[00:54:17] if Mitch is bringing in a Cedric and if David is bringing in Mary as we've seen everyone loves David I think there's a lot of potential here I would get rid of charity later if I was David I do criticize him for wanting to immediately throwing charity under the bus because you
[00:54:50] David is not playing and I am playing why are you playing and David was in two majorities and you were completely on the outs what is playing just being very aggressive and putting people off and in the
[00:55:20] wider group she has no idea how Dave perceives her she has no idea her position in the tribe this is the person you get rid of if Dave is not liking her and he's finding a secret
[00:55:50] scene as well Mary loves David and that's locked in so I think David Eva and Mary can run that tribe and they can drop I think who was so on the out of I think from a macro perspective I would much rather do that and if it
[00:56:43] vote wonderful fodder for a Murgatory vote it's not so dire that you have to get rid of her now if she thinks she's working with David you have her exactly where you want her and let her tell her stories in her
[00:57:13] where he knows he knows he's told that information which seems true he knew where the Siva idol was it wasn't with Charity he knew who went on all the journeys it was in charity she's fodder for a Murgatory and Mary's in a
[00:57:43] I really want Say and Mary to make it back to each other the note that Say left for Mary that said Mary I had a tweet that was like it was really sweet that she had to put Mary's name because who else would it be for Mary like gone fishing gone idol hunting was so cute um so endearing to me and then she yells out Mary I left a note for you it was so cute it was so so so so sweet um I really really really enjoyed that dynamic and I would love to see that go further the worst possible thing from a storytelling perspective would be one of them getting cut
[00:58:12] before they can make it back to each other when this has been such an interesting dynamic through the pre-swap but it does seem like they are both in a good enough spot where that won't be necessary um you know Cedric is even wanting to work with Say as we've seen and Bianca really seems like she'll be on the outs there um so it doesn't feel like Say's an immediate target um I don't know but Say the thing is Say has has mentioned um to Bianca like hey I'm not all in on Cedric do a vibe check I love the vibe check I love the vibe check reference do a vibe check on him
[00:58:42] and she was really saying to throw him under the bus but the Cedric and Mitch connection is growing by the day and Mitch but Cedric wants to work with Say so it's not that's not that bad for Say yeah yeah but if Cedric finds out that Say has been throwing his name out there and actually he's turning on him and actually he's pretty keen to get rid of him then I think Say is on the wrong side of everything because I don't think
[00:59:06] like then Bianca is more incentivized to be like actually maybe maybe Say's the the the ship that's sinking and I need to switch over here it just depends where Chrissy's head's at Chrissy Chrissy may just be like well yeah I'm just going to stick with Mitch I don't know we don't have a lot in common and then it becomes a Mitch Chrissy Cedric majority and then I think Bianca then gets on in on that and they tell everyone comes out that Si is um uh burning bridges with Cedric and then she goes home so I
[00:59:33] think there actually is a risk that she could go home really I mean that that is the concern that it gets back to Cedric firstly I do think Cedric is such a straight shooter that he might be like I feel bad about her last week but you should be mad at me like surely he could have some self-awareness of the fact that that was very much his fault um he really like yeah voted for her twice and then kept her in the game I also do think that Chris is very rightly set on Bianca because of the laggy Siva war like Vula are numbers to pick up in the war and like maybe that'll be
[00:59:59] very against her yeah you're right actually yeah yeah I'll go back to tribal council and somehow win out and what and like laggy start to be defanged or if you know like we see one of Ivor all star go home like maybe that becomes less of an issue and they get down to four people and now it's like it's you know completely irrelevant compared to Vula at a point maybe the war's you know fighting itself like and winning itself without them even doing it but yeah I mean I think it should be okay because anyway when are they merging is there like one vote till they merge probably it it
[01:00:29] probably is you know yeah the thing with Chrissy as well the thing with Chrissy as well she does strike me as an old school player that he's very tribal lines yeah she is that person that is no no this was our group we're going to stick together we're going to get to the end where some of these other guys don't strike me is that like I think Camilla if she could find another another group and other people to connect with she will definitely use them but yeah you're right Chrissy will be the one banging the drum of guys that stick together let's move forward as a group so that'll be interesting to see how that pans out it is interesting because again I think that we'll
[01:00:58] probably merge after the next vote so they're very close um say and married to getting back to each other which I would love Eden will you indulge me in talking about something from last week I'm gonna I want to go back to last week and again if there was a if there's more in my journey this week we'll talk about it next week no it's it's seriously we need to stop it's bad but this was just something that was brought to me by a listener Nutty um through the week that I thought was really interesting about something we was talking about to death which was this tribal council but
[01:01:26] say and Cedric voting in the re-vote when they know that they can probably tell that Justin doesn't have a vote there've been two married votes that have been negated not a third and Justin is the one that went on the journey two plus two equals four if it's the two of you say and Cedric should have turned on each other it actually may be a perfect prisoner's dilemma and I do love finding perfect prisoner's dilemmas in the wild um can I explain can we should go on another journey through the prison yeah let's go on another duty I'll get I'll get my pilot's hat on this time
[01:01:56] and we'll go up in the air okay let's do that so obviously in a perfect prisoner's dilemma you are incentivized to betray each other for saying Cedric so if you'll say as an example the top thing that you can do is betray Cedric and he tries to collaborate with you and you win the day in this world that would mean that you voted Cedric he voted Justin as the collaboration that means it's a Cedric Justin tie and Cedric would then choose which of the two of them um go home so that would be the best case scenario or second best you collaborate with each other perfect
[01:02:26] prisoner's dilemma Justin goes home third best you betray each other say v Cedric we don't know what would happen here but say it is they go to fire which is what I think it should be now it's like okay so Cedric has full control betraying collaborate with each other Justin goes home betray each other you have a chance at fire be betrayed and collaborate Cedric as we saw had all the power that was when she voted for Justin and he voted for say so and you can reverse it for Cedric perfect prisoner's
[01:02:53] dilemma now we don't know what would happen if it was a save v Cedric tie if they both betrayed each other either they go to fire we thought maybe or maybe Justin is order rocked out I did re-watch the 42 Jenny tribal council and Chanel and Mike would were going to also draw rock so it is possible that Justin would have to get order rocked out because he can't decide who to vote for because he doesn't have a vote but he is meant to be a rock picker and he would get order rocked out and in that way it's actually not a perfect prisoner's dilemma but it's even clear to betray because then if you're
[01:03:21] betraying it means you either have full control or you both could betray each other and Justin goes and if you collaborate Justin goes but if you are betrayed and you collaborate the other person has full power so it's never made more sense than to just you know betray and maybe even Justin goes anyway or you have full power so that's where I'm sorry didn't Keith didn't Keith find himself in that position where he if he he would be the only one that would have to draw a rock and he would
[01:03:48] have gone home if he didn't change his vote well Cedric you know technically could have been the only rock picker last week but that has a precedent that has a precedent because they did say that they said well no because in this situation Justin doesn't have a vote like he still had a vote but everyone else who had a vote was immune so he was the only one but he still could be like um you know like he could still try and take it to the unanimous decision if like someone like Kelly was like no
[01:04:15] Kelly could have actually decided like no I'd actually rather have Kimmy and auto rocked Keith out of the game so that's a bit different because that was on him being the only vulnerable target in a multi-rock discussion it wasn't on someone like Cedric being the only person in the rock discussion and the only rock picker this situation with Justin would make him the only rock picker who cannot actually come to a unanimous decision for rocks because he doesn't have a vote which I would hate um but
[01:04:39] it is really interesting that they in a prisoner's dilemma social stuff aside should have turned on each other and maybe I should be harsher on the fact that state didn't vote for Cedric now is she going through the prisoner's dilemma at the time probably not because it takes a pen and paper to you know she can try do it in sticks like the note but it is difficult hang on Mary Mary hang on I've got to put this in sticks on the ground yeah literally when we work this out and it's like Mary what is the prisoner's dilemma but I think maybe if she'd known everything maybe I should
[01:05:08] be harsher on say because I've said she's been playing at 100 playing at 100 is actually voting for Cedric which was optimal she's they incentivize to turn on each other now Cedric did vote for her again I don't think this is a prisoner's dilemma because of the relationships but it is really interesting to know that say should have turned on Cedric and a point on this as well is that the reason that Nadi brought it to me was because he was like this shows that Justin should get auto rocked out because you wouldn't want because they're incentivized to turn on each other it's not really fair that
[01:05:35] Justin has an advantage because he doesn't have a vote where they're incentivized not to vote for Justin but I think still I hate the idea of being auto rocked out for Justin where he doesn't have a chance to contribute to the rock discussion and then just picks a rock and I think that like that tiny loophole incentive incentive beyond social relationships to not vote for him is quite minor to losing all of his agency and I also really like that that would then make it a perfect Christmas dilemma with fire I don't know people are you following this is this business been good
[01:06:04] no no it's it's a wild ride and we'd love every moment because this is what people come to this podcast to discuss and talk about they can go to the vibe check podcast they can go to all the things but here they want to be bombarded with every single possible outcome no stone will be unturned no stick will be uh will be left unpicked up because this is what this is what the people want you're
[01:06:30] giving the people what they want Shannon and like I love it I love it no one's saying they want it I want it and I'm doing what I want I love the idea of saying I bombard them that's it that's me I'm a bombarded it's like that you know like for me and girls like I'm a pusher Katie I'm a bombarded and that's what I've done with this but the people who like it because I'm like I love finding a perfect Christmas dilemma in the wild and this was a perfect Christmas dilemma and what but I could
[01:06:56] take from it is that say should have turned on Cedric even earlier than she has clearly done now so the good thing about this I know what to get you for your birthday now what a prisoner's dilemma a perfect one out in the wild somewhere I'll somehow yeah your life for your birthday and at the end so it's going to come out and say like happy birthday and you go like oh my god this is the best present ever it's going to be yeah I love that
[01:07:21] I love that that's so cool my birthday is in 11 months yeah but think about it for the future I will I've got to play I've got to play that far I'm going to hire some actors and everything just yeah watch out watch out what else you tell me what else you have because I have some questions and I have the chizzy but if you have anything else that you want did you have other prisoners dilemmas that you wanted to get to from weeks ago did you have other things from other episodes that you still want to bring up now I've got a whole other prisoner doc like podcast documentary that we
[01:07:50] go through but that's no that's we will stick to this I think there were a couple other things um yes that we we touched on yeah the perfect form of lying um the the train wreck tribe I think we've touched on a lot of that the the other breakdown what is there any tribe that we didn't do as much on I don't think so because obviously we've done two extremes every week oh that's good oh actually
[01:08:16] yeah we have the there is oh yes something it is now some alliances are made through I don't know a shared upbringing or some sort of cultural background maybe loving the movie holes exactly but there are some alliances that are formed just through the love of jet skis oh my god is that what Eva said like she said we both love jet ski yes did you watch Loki season two yes this is what
[01:08:46] I was thinking at the time oh my god it was because I was I was like this is the tweet no one cared about my my increasingly incorrect tweets through the night movies like like yeah Owen Wilson character who loves jet skis was exactly what I was thinking about I was I wanted to tweet them and then the Owen Wilson character and then be like you know they all love jet skis but then I didn't know if that would be more niche than again my increasingly incorrect journey tweets but I would have liked it I would have liked it I would have liked and subscribed if you'd posted that
[01:09:13] thank you so much you understand the um the influencing is it Morbius is that the Owen Wilson character Morbius uh yeah Morbius Morbius Morbius Morbius Morbius yeah because he influenced Peter so hard on key lime pie that when we were in New York we searched for a whole day and then we did get key lime pie but then when we went on our Disney cruise a few weeks ago it said that there was key lime pie and we looked all cruise and there wasn't key lime pie but he started something in this
[01:09:41] household about key lime pie and but not about jet ski but that is something that maybe Peter could bond over someone with his key lime pie but the jet ski thing was specific the jet ski thing is wild but this is me this is what I like to drill down on Shannon I know I know we've we've gone through everything else but the other thing I want to touch on I've talked touched on jet skis David he hates water but he loves chocolate milk he loves chocolate milk and cosign by the way David is all green flags just by the by
[01:10:08] yeah he's the king of the green flags he's got his 24 inch python arms he's absolutely although he does have money troubles so watch out there oh poor man but love can conquer all love can yeah um he reminds me of you know do you see Deadpool Wolverine nice pool yeah you know nice he's very got nice pool vibes which is amazing but I am a fellow lover of chocolate milk Dave so I'm just going to put it out to the
[01:10:35] world um every so did you have this I'm going on a bit of a tangent here Jen did you used to have lunch orders at school like at primary school lunch orders I don't know we had a canteen so what you would do is one day a week it was usually Mondays or Fridays you would get a little brown paper bag and you would write on it your food order and then mum would put money in an envelope yeah yeah yeah at the start of the day it would go off and it would magically get filled and someone's job would to go and grab the
[01:11:04] basket come back into the classroom and hand out all the the lunches and stuff and I can tell you for six years of my life on Monday morning lunch orders I would have one jumbo sausage roll one small bag of oval teenies and one big m chocolate big m oh my god was my that was my lunch every Monday in
[01:11:26] that lunch order and so I shout out to the to the big m chocolate drink yeah okay if we can't bond on holes which by the way crime against humanity but we can bond on this David huge co-sign I hate water I don't drink water like sometimes I'll have like a headache which is often like last night with 3 a.m people be like go get some water I'll be like I'd rather die like it's actually medically terrible in many different ways I don't drink milk or nothing I love chocolate milk but you know
[01:11:54] what's better than chocolate milk strawberry milk strawberry milk incorrect Shannon incorrect take your strawberry milk go watch holes get out of this podcast that is outrageous strawberry flavored milk yeah strawberry milk is amazing have you had it have you tried or you just you're just like not I can tell you right this right now once I find something I like I never change Shannon once I tasted you try it one time okay well I promise me you do it this weekend okay I'll do
[01:12:23] it for you I'll live stream it for you Shannon me try yes I'm telling you you yes this is how I know I'm my father's daughter my dad loves strawberry milk and I also I'll just drink strawberry milk and I hate water if I was on survivor I would get so dehydrated which I honestly kind of do in real life because I will not drink water I would rather die it is so bland like literally that would be my choice it was someone on survivor New Zealand who yeah refused to eat the rice anymore this was Adam
[01:12:53] so he just kind of like starved that would be me if I don't want to eat something I just won't eat I just won't drink water and it's very very I'm like a child actually and drinking my strawberry milk it would be so good I I would have loved I would have loved to just filled your water bottle up with strawberry milk out on the island you'd be loving it out there it's you need to trick me you need to trick me into eating my vegetables you need to trick me into eating fruit you need to trick me into
[01:13:19] drinking water I'm a very very unhealthy person either and I don't know how to tell you this but so I'll tell you what you do is and we we do this with my two and a half year old phoenix at the moment we will do so I can I give Pete the recipe so we will make him a smoothie but we will crush up we've got like vegetables and and stuff that we will blend up in it um and he has no idea that
[01:13:47] they're in there and we put a little bit of um like cocoa chocolate powder in there to make it all nice and we put some banana in there but we put the fruit and we put all that in there and he drinks it and he has no idea if I give him any fruit he's not eating any fruit at all so we have to get him in it through his his smoothie so I'll I'll pass the recipe on and you'll be healthier yeah when I was a child the the pediatrician told my mom that the way to get meat and vegetables was to put some sugar on the vegetables I still do this sometimes I still do this on some on squash I don't
[01:14:15] know if that's a thing in Australia but there's a big thing in in um South Africa um we eat so have it here and I have it with butter and squash it's so unhealthy yeah yeah do you know what I do this is okay I should be admitting this I shouldn't be admitting this you know cinnamon donuts you know like plain cinnamon donuts yeah yeah so I would get a bowl of sugar and I would dip the cinnamon donut in the sugar to get more sugar before I respect that that is a sugar injections directly
[01:14:43] into your bloodstream right there it was when I was at camp I remember there was like terrible camp food and I remember I would just go get packets of sugar just eat the sugar straight it was very unhelpful that was to be fair I was 10 but I might still do that today yeah Shedden we're going out to play sports with everyone no I'm okay I've just got a packet of sugar literally in the bug bed the food was so bland I was just eating packets of sugar now will this chocolate milk obsession which again David is 10 out of 10 correct well but strawberry better but both good
[01:15:12] will it come to fruition where there's like a reward the sanctuary with chocolate milk and David's like come again because he hasn't drunk water and he hasn't drunk anything in like weeks I think maybe we're going to see this play out I think it's advantageous any future survivor players talk about your favorite food out there get it out into the world because there is a chance there is a non-zero chance that production out there will pick up what you're putting down and one of the rewards of
[01:15:37] something will be a packet of barbecue shapes a chocolate milk a cup of like just something out there snickers bar put it out into the world don't don't just rely on them coming up with I don't know a KFC or something like that really put into the world what you actually want to eat and I think it will come true yeah 100 for me it would be like like a toddler's menu and they would be like we're going to the candy store I'd be like yep that's what I want that's seven dollars the sanctuary they all
[01:16:04] have their little menus and then someone slides across the kids menu there Shannon literally strawberry milk literally I'll have the nuggets and no vegetables yeah yeah sugar literally if the reward was like veggies I'd be like pass I'd rather not I'd rather starve I'd rather die I I it seems like I'm being extreme when I'm joking I assure you I'm not it's genuinely a concern like I love it but you will have strawberry milk this weekend and maybe you'll re-watch holes
[01:16:32] and maybe you'll see that it was better than you into the universe okay I'm going to send you a photo of me in my cinema room watching holes good drinking a strawberry what a what a Saturday what a wonderful day what a Saturday night mate incredible I'll watch I'll have to watch severance first I haven't watched severance yet oh my god I know I'm also because I'm having this I'm doing this podcast with you that is instead of watching severance I feel you it's friendship level we've got here
[01:17:00] you're amazing I'm doing that on my own podcast and I'm annoyed about it because I also like severance and I'm like even before I could have watched it but I'm like but I but I had the reboot rules in my head I'm like I won't be enjoying it because I'll be like seven to not be watching it but I'm like we'll do it tomorrow when I can like get this all all my thoughts out and be done with it but it's so kind of you to be a guest when you could instead be watching the severance finale like thank you genuinely thank you so much so good so good Shannon of course of course
[01:17:25] should we do the chizzy maybe then we can go and watch the severance finale it's very late we probably won't but I don't know I'm tempted honestly uh chizzy take it away Jacob Seguin-Siena and MC color one two three okay what are we what are we thinking that is great that is great okay I think there's I think there's some obvious
[01:17:52] people here yeah it is quite obvious I think yeah yeah two of two of the people played this episode some would say perfectly um and I think yeah and I think I just oh yeah there you go oh oh there you go oh yeah I like that um it just depends who we think did more on my end yeah and I think
[01:18:16] I think it's I think it's Camilla um I think she planted more seeds she was the one that sort of put out there that she was on the bottom of the tribe she was the one that immediately said I'm going to give you by um my extra vote I just think she was doing a lot of maneuver Kyle was also great and I'm actually going to I really want to give him a couple of points as well but I think my top my top has to be her because I just think she I think they both for what could have been a really
[01:18:43] dicey situation they had the tools at their disposal and they managed to use them all perfectly to get the result that they needed so I think it was pretty yeah I agree I think firstly we saw Camilla was putting in so much work she was doing the work with star on the bench I'm trying to think about what challenge that was like was that that was put up at that yeah and was that that at the point where star was working with Thomas or maybe we don't know exactly when things happened in Lagi but she gave all the information she put the pressure then Camilla put the pressure on Thomas not to use the vote seal which again had a slight chance possibly of working
[01:19:12] um I also feel like we have to remember that she got the idol for Kyle like she was on who worked it out so yes that's yeah that's 100 true 100 true um and then okay so who else who else is I do love as well that star was like I mean star was on the outs to be fair and I think that it was unfortunate socially but then also apparently she'd been looking for idols and she kind of separated herself but then also she's like on the bench giving the information away for Lagi like she was just like a mole the whole
[01:19:39] time um but yeah I do think like as well Camilla started the narrative and Kyle as we said we really like the way that he added to the lie and he was like no it's fine I really like you kind of way um perfect I also know overplay it yeah yeah and the way he built up his alpha threat to Lagi to be the target knowing he'd be immune was good so that I'm agreeing with you three to Camilla two to Kyle for both of us right yep yeah I have my one set in stone okay okay you got that said I haven't got my
[01:20:06] one set in stone I'm still I'm still ruminating what's your one my one is going to David because he's right about water and chocolate milk no because that is a point and he loves jet skis though but I think that for everyone loves him through two tribes of just like total adoration you have to commend it Eva loves him Mary loves him like I wouldn't throw away charity now and we'll see how it goes but I think just on positioning like I have to give a point to David um yeah and so that that I mean Camilla's now up
[01:20:34] to nine tying with say and Kyle then gets put up to eight and David gets his first point who's who are you giving a point to oh it's true it is tricky I don't know Dave you make a really good case for Dave because he was the other one that sort of built that up maybe I'll the other thing is it's just like not not enough other people did enough in the episode to really warrant it I might actually go never gonna give to the California girl so yeah well that's yeah okay maybe maybe
[01:21:01] no Cedric's still under the bus Mary I feel like is in a really good position now but I don't think she really did anything to deserve it look maybe I'll give maybe I'll give I was thinking it's either Mitch or Eva for me I think Mitch because both of them made connections outside their alliance pretty quickly yeah I think Eva like clocked Dave and like however you feel about it she was just putting herself in front of star saying like oh let's get a start I might actually give it to Eva I think
[01:21:31] I'm going to give her one point I think she she made a connection with David I think they made a genuine connection there and um I think they're going to build on it and I think those those two are going to be pretty safe uh moving forward so yeah I'm going to give Eva I really like her as well I think with Eva it does feel counterintuitive to be like she's on the bottom and it feels like they'll target you but it also feels like it will work like it feels like because David likes her that that's more important so I do think that's important I think Mitch Mitch on will mention
[01:21:58] to Mitch who Chrissy's wanting to work with Mitch and Mitch having that connection with Cedric but then you can't give Cedric because Say is so against Cedric Mitch is covering more yeah okay so one point to Eva and then yeah the point to David I had a couple of questions from the listeners Eden oh great told me um okay Matt Benjamin asked how he should vote for season 50 this week now neither of us can vote but we can campaign and advocate and we could get a VPN where we could
[01:22:24] vote should I do that should I care enough to do this um the three because one vote one vote could matter I know it's it is important in Australia it's compulsory voting so we know that it's important to vote but the the three things let's walk through it so it's to have a swap or no swap um I feel like this is the easiest one so I've started there like we I enjoy a swap personally like I always have a swap swap is great swap changing dynamics we we saw this is a perfect example of how much fun a swap is
[01:22:52] all these different dynamics all these different things play out we are we are gone the Pagong era is gone it's no one is no one is just going okay we're just gonna vote off this this one everyone's looking for new alliances and new groups and it's really fun that is a no-brainer that is 100% keeping the swap in the game interesting as well with the two swaps that we've seen 45 and 48 in the new era have come from the tribes losing all in a row like Lulu and Vula like I think obviously
[01:23:20] these we weren't they weren't intending to have swaps but in a five vote in a five vote um pre-merge they're probably worried correctly so with probably both Lulu and Vula that it will get to a point where it'll be one it'll get to a tribal council where it's like a Steph and Bobby John type situation yeah yeah that's exactly right and then you go down then they vote out and then they have to join
[01:23:46] the other tribe yeah so they probably don't want that so it seems like that's what's triggered both swaps of the new era correct would they ever get in a situation gets down to two and you just send one to each other tribe well that was what happened with Malcolm and Denise yeah and they just they just split do you go back to doing that they could do that and then it's two tribes and then they have two tribes and that would be such oh my god imagine having two tribes shattered they do get to the two groups when they split them in the merge so I don't know if it's that
[01:24:15] different so yeah they mean they don't have to do that but there are other options but yeah they I think that that's what's been triggering swaps in these yes yeah I agree but I think we still trigger swaps I think we're pro swaps definitely like the trigger yeah okay very much pro swap on this podcast then the other one so there was fun the final four challenge now everyone was very excited to vote for hands on a hard idol because obviously we love our history here as the nerdy super fans but then the
[01:24:40] three options they gave were some motion and then they gave the one that Ben won in 46 which is like the ball is rolling down and you're doing like a puzzle and then if the ball you get a time penalty if the ball hits so it's kind of like those two continue your puzzle if you've drawn yeah yeah yeah and I think one was like a big obstacle course so it's unfortunate because they're like you choose it's like well it's kind of like this is like you know it's like the two-party voting system it's like I don't want a different option that's not one of the options but um I mean I guess emotion
[01:25:08] I don't know it's emotion for me it's the class it's the it's the closest thing we've got I've ever since token chains I've got an affiliation with that uh challenge I love it I think it's really good I think it's really fun um we did I missed out on doing it in um Titans versus Rebels uh that I think was it they did a slightly different version there was a biggest scale one you have to run up drop it and run back down I like the just small normal one where it just comes down to your
[01:25:34] hands yeah that's what they had in the picture so I think that as well with especially with that like with the big one obviously there's like a real real big fitness component I think with some motion like it's concentration and like kind of like hand on a heart idol it's like anyone can win on a given day like I remember like Romeo was the big surprise winning in 42 so I do think yeah some motion is kind of the closest thing we have I guess to that like iconic classic
[01:25:59] but there's still the element of like you've got to time your balls you gotta you should count like there's still this this so it it can reward people that know the game oh yeah there you go it's still up for the non-viewers being confused but the strategic element of of this motion is still there like if you know okay I'm going to time how long the ball goes down I know I have this many balls I'm going to divide it by that to get my timings right like that rewards the person that knows that rather than the person that just comes in going like oh yeah I'll just I'll just do this
[01:26:29] or I've just got really good hand-eye coordination I I think it's that's what I like about the challenge I think it is I think it is one of those classic challenges that um it's just a great it's a great watch it's great for viewers and it's it's really exciting but there is a strategic element that if you know how to play it it does give you an advantage better than that one that Malcolm did you know the one where you have to hold the ones together and do the Dune Malcolm I mean that's my nightmares yeah that's terrible get rid of that trash I do think as well like these aren't these aren't good options compared to like something like chronic
[01:26:58] like hands on a heart idol for season 50 like they're missing a trick and like we see the way that those like you know massive like torture challenges in in Australian Survivor like I think endurance like a Palau type endurance for a final challenge about just how much do you want it how much can you the mental fortitude that is that's the last challenge you're not thinking 4D
[01:27:20] here Shannon this is not the final challenge this is the final four challenge um yeah they're going to do a final two and the final three challenge is going to be hands on a heart idol I'm calling it right now I'm calling it right now it'll be a classic final two are you being serious I'm being 100%
[01:27:39] you haven't been heard enough by the show like no it's happening it's happening I admire I admire your optimism I think it's foolish but I wish I lived in a world where I could be like so wrong but optimistic as you are yeah good I'm glad we agree uh what was the last category shit now I'm just insulting you while you missed the severance finale to be here that's the kind of friend I am
[01:28:06] and then this was hard because this was like advantages I want to see if I have the actual terminology here I do get the wording right get the wording right because it is well the wording as you know is probably like choose what we want bitches um based on the way that a lot of subtext a lot of subtext in these so here's actual so they said more gameplay advantages are an exciting way to give players the power to influence the game how much power do you want advantages to have in
[01:28:31] survivor 50 but advantages are good remember that uh minimal power minimal power I want advantages to be rare and limited in power forcing the players to rely primarily on their strategic social and physical abilities strategic power I want advantages that are just powerful enough to create some uncertainty and risk adding a layer of complexity for the players to deal with and the third is dynamic power I want to amplify the impact and fun of advantages so they offer enough power to shake up the game so that even players on the bottom have a fighting chance so this is like a three-tiered level um
[01:28:59] don't you love don't you love the sentence so it gives even the players at the bottom a fighting chance to stay in there and make the game so amazing because your favorite is going to be on the bottom and if you haven't selected this then you are going to be crying in your sleep when your favorite competitor is said like that's what they're saying or it'll be boring a boring steamroll but if you want a steamroll then I guess be boring um I found this one really hard because I don't understand what it
[01:29:25] means like the idea of strategic advantages to me sounds good like yeah it's like that advantages that people can use in a strategic way but it's like I don't trust the show of what that means like I'm tempted to say obviously minimal because I want them to do as little as possible because I don't have trust in the show and I think that the show is broken I'm really enjoying the season by the way I complain every week I want to I am enjoying the season but yes I don't trust the show so that's why I want to do minimal strategic to me sounds good what is their version of strategic
[01:29:52] advantage possibly not mine so I don't know how I can I don't know what I'm voting for here I feel like I need more information it's purposely vague it's purposely vague I'm going to go out there and go strategic because I think the strategic element of it sort of makes me think that it will be things that a smart player can do to impact the game you're so wrong rather than yeah not that
[01:30:16] obviously but the um what was the bottom level called what was that dynamic the bottom level was dynamic no the bottom was minimal sorry sorry it's on the bottom of the vote so it's not right the least is minimal the middle is strategic and the most is dynamic the one that can like help your fave so that it's not a boring scheme or all you're boring boards in oh well oh if it stops me being boring let's do that one yeah I don't want to be boring you want to be boring um strategic sounds
[01:30:43] good but then are they just getting me because it's so strategic I think possibly this is very hard how much do we trust the show should we limit their power as much as possible maybe we limit their powers as much as humanly possible and so when they and so if they ever think that maybe we could get this this uh this necklace of power back in the game that they have to think twice because we we voted for minimal it's just one of those ones that you like what does that mean like what does that mean you
[01:31:10] don't know you don't know it's just such a it's that's such a nothing vote that one that's yeah it's very tough because I'm the kind of person who's like we need to go back to basics I don't feel that way but then I feel like if I give them an inch they'll take a mile so I'm like maybe I give you nothing I don't know we can't vote I'm glad I can't vote I'm glad like Justin and many people in many seasons I can't vote because I don't understand I feel like this is just this I yeah I guess say minimal they don't deserve more than minimal there's more than many minors are in the game
[01:31:38] is that a five person vote with tell me what it is tell me what the advantage is I want to like tick off like a list of advantages but if people are looking for what we're advocating for then we want I'm saying minimal I want yeah we're saying minimal I want to list of advantages and I want to get my fire tokens out and I want to buy the different advantages to put into the game just like hunger games where you can buy advantages to send into the game that's yes oh my god I would love to do that that would be so fun yeah okay anyway well that's all I have you know you missed the
[01:32:08] severance finale to be here I know I'm just that kind of guy I'm just I'm just I'm just the Dave of the podcast world I like jet ski green flags yeah that's see that's what he would do that's what a kind voice would do thank Eden for missing the severance finale to be here I missed it too but it's my podcast so I was like I have to be exactly that's fun you can you are podcasting more than
[01:32:36] me at the moment I don't say that lightly tell the people what you're doing and where they it actually is true I've done I ran the numbers when I was doing my Julia Roberts calculating I also found time to count how many podcasts we've each done and I think this week you how many podcasts did you do this week uh I've done I've I'm in the case of I'm doing I'm doing recaps of Australian Survivor after each episode every episode yeah and then I'm then I'm doing a weekly one with my brother for
[01:33:03] um survivor debrief and that's like then I'm doing then I'm doing exit interviews yeah um and then I'm doing you've done this and then I've done this and then anyone that have me I did I did Sarah's podcast last night um obviously uh RHFB's um Sarah's own we did the draft with her we started talking about biscuits and we said you know what we're going to have to talk about Australian Survivor but we're also going to have to do a biscuit review so we did a biscuit top five biscuit review keep an eye
[01:33:31] out for that one coming soon um so yeah I'm um I'm always looking for a new podcast to jump on you know me I'm so shallow I need I need to talk about these things I need to express myself any way necessary through as many podcasts as humanly possible yeah so I think that's what it is that you're recapping three times a week doing a weekly show doing an exit like me I'm doing global every week but you're guesting so much and I'm not doing that you guessed it this week already so that already brings you up to me and you guessed it with me so you already won more I told
[01:34:01] you calculated it yeah there's the maths there's the math but seriously like in terms of what we're doing me and my brother with um Survivor Podcast it's been really fun um doing a weekly recap so if there is anyone that wants to listen to me rabbit on um for another weekly recap please like and subscribe that because we're just a humble we're just a humble little podcast unlike the RHAP juggernaut that we all know and love so yeah if you did if you do enjoy my ramblings please check us
[01:34:28] out um and uh give us a like and subscribe it would be really great where where can people find that um so you can find me at at Eden Porter one on Instagram or at Eden Porter on X um and yeah on YouTube it's Survivor uh Debrief so just follow us there and on Spotify as well um yeah or any good um podcasts channels you can find Survivor Debrief so yeah check it out I saw you on the home page this
[01:34:55] week I saw Survivor Debrief on the Apple homepage no you didn't yeah I did I promise you I'm gonna see if it's still there well this is probably not the time to do this but I did find it I did see it this is great this is this is great TV Shan yeah I'm telling you I'm gonna send you a screenshot when I go please do please yeah TV and film I'm telling you it was there it was there it was there for a moment it was there for it was there it was a blink and you miss it it was no
[01:35:23] um also and I've got another podcast that I do um but we're in the off season at the moment called cancelled movie report so me and my friend Cambo we get hold of scripts of films that have never been made that got cancelled and we get voiceover artists and we basically redo in basically like an audio play of the entire film so it's the closest thing you can get to seeing these films get made without actually spending millions of dollars on making them um we are in between seasons at the
[01:35:50] moment we're filming recording the new season so that should be out maybe about halfway through the year in June or so it does take us a long time to build those um episodes up but keep an eye out for that that's cancelled movie report as well well that actually reminds me actually had another question from Matt Noll who said Eden is great at alliance names what should Khan Camilla's name be and which movie would this episode be do you have a last minute because obviously the holes alliance is where I would go but well that's that's that's what it is they've bonded over holes it's it's like
[01:36:17] that's them that is them every every single day of the week um or you could just loot any Shia LaBeouf film really you could just um you could put suburbia that's that's another show transformers they're all good Shia LaBeouf films um what is a movie a movie reference there all those b-holes because they were in a hole and then they dug themselves out they were they were in a hole we could what else have we got we could do um it could be Bill and Ted's excellent adventure we could
[01:36:47] have Karl and Kamala's excellent adventure yeah that would be good Pulp Fiction isn't oh that's a no that's that's too many entertaining surveys there's not there's not enough maybe what are the usual suspects because they were both they were both suspects but they managed to there's a twist at the end you know they their feet straightened up and they went oh yeah that's good I like usual suspects I think that's quite good I don't know if I've seen that movie I'm sorry I'm missing the reference I know that yeah I know I haven't seen a lot of the big movies I haven't
[01:37:14] seen like okay don't read anything else go and just because yeah just go watch that film it's got Kevin Spacey in it so it's been tainted but it is still a very good film oh wait no I actually did that I oh I know those I watched the end scene is that the twist well yeah I guess I watched that I'm sorry I Wikipedia movie plots and I watched that last scene I watched the last scene before I Wikipedia did it I'm like what oh shit and now okay that's what that movie is I'm sorry but
[01:37:41] okay what if it's the aforementioned inception based on the but if they do this and they do that and then we get to the layers well I think yeah we lived through inception tonight in terms of our journey so I think that's a that's another really good one what we need we need we need someone we need that like we need that music playing to get us kicked out to get us out of um our journeys gets back to reality give us the kick Shannon yeah get us back to the the severance finale but Eden thank you so much everyone should check out everything that Eden is doing
[01:38:10] I'm doing things as well podcasting a lot Australian Survivor three recaps a week with Chappelle Pooja Mike we've got the feedback show which you are going to get you on later in the season we've got Caroline this week the ex interview every week we've got global next week with Matthew Haywood from Survivor UK I think that's it I think that's it yeah so good so good I really had a good time it's always a fun time with you Shannon this was really fun this was better than the severance finale
[01:38:40] I don't know I haven't seen it but I don't know they have a high body clear maybe my maybe my outie has watched it tonight and I don't even know about it it could be a possibility I'm here I'm an innie I'm in the podcast innie world I know the way that the innies are a slave to the job and they just chug away that's me in Survivor so my outie's having a great freaking time oh yeah addie's drinking chocolate milk and watching holes I'm just not seeing the sunlight
[01:39:08] just being like and I'm like what happens with on a jet ski out there like here we are just I made severance references in so many of my recent podcasts like it's pretty clear I want to be watching severance right now this is not a severance podcast this is survival 48 thank you so much Eden absolutely love the chat thank you to our listeners thank you to our team behind the scenes and I will see you next time bye see ya bye Australian survivor is saying survivor in New Zealand survivor
[01:39:37] survivor 21 South Africa 12 ordinary Australians 1 million pounds 1 million euros 1 million euros