Survivor Global: The 2-1-1 Prisoner’s Dilemma | Season 48 Episode 5 with Matthew Haywood

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[00:01:08] Hello everyone and welcome to RHAPs coverage of Survivor 48 for Survivor Global. I'm your host Shanna Gus here to finish off the Pre-Merge for Episode 5. talk about another crazy vote another plurality vote the first 2-1-1 in u.s survivor history many in international survivor um this is the first time to ever happen in the u.s it can't happen in the post-match because we have fire so we got it done here in this season that refuses

[00:01:33] to just form a majority and vote people out and there's complicated parts of that and i'm here to talk about it with someone who i love chatting survivor with he's a new fan but he also won won the show in the uk so that gives him like super fan cred for life it is a great matthew haywood thank you so much for having me i can't wait for this i love chatting and yeah i'm a bit i'm survivor obsessed at the minute i'm watching australia watching us and yeah i'm loving it

[00:01:58] yeah it's been it's been fun um it's very very different in the u.s compared to australia and like every week i come into like i should i'm gonna do the u.s podcast like i'll watch the episode it'll be chill um you know this is like my fourth pod literally my fourth podcast today and um and it's always headache inducing every week i'm like i'm knee deep in prisoners dilemmas i do enjoy as i've said before finding prisoners dilemmas out in the wild which the season

[00:02:25] keeps on giving me but the rules i kind of work for better this week but there's a lot matthew every week and this week we're gonna delve into it to extreme absolutely well when you were probably podcasting a few hours ago i was up at like 4 a.m uk time i was watching the episodes and i think i needed to take a breather it was quite exhausting watching this u.s survivor i think it's so fast-paced compared to like the uk season i was on and like the australian survivor well i'm

[00:02:51] loving it i think it brings a lot to talk about yeah well i mean look you were just watching the episodes today at 4 a.m instead of skydiving so at least it's a more chill day are you going skydiving after this podcast by chance not today it's my cousin's 18 so tonight it's going to be like cousin's party chill so nothing too extreme today like last time yeah i'm disappointed but we did get messages that people were happy you survived skydiving to make it through to this next podcast

[00:03:17] so people are happy that you made it as long as i keep surviving to the next podcast that's kind of my life my life goal that's the true survivor that you get to the next podcast with all these extreme sports and adventures that you have absolutely no i think that's kind of what my mom and dad have to look out for it every day just is not you still alive today is he survived today well i i feel bad for them if that's the case but matthew so you it's a lot are you enjoying the season what are your thoughts on because this is your second u.s survivor season and it's it's so much like we've had

[00:03:45] comments like imagine if this was you know like two episodes two weeks ago imagine this is your third episode of survivor ever and while you were on the show and won it for you for u.s survivor that's not super far from the truth and it really like throws you in the deep end so is it something that you're enjoying keeping pace with or are you like has it like is there an accessibility level of just insanity of like the finicky rules and stuff for someone who comes in you know one or two seasons in and like this is insane and too much yeah i'm so open with it though so i'll watch an episode

[00:04:13] and i'll be like so what like what is that what is that and then i'll look through forums and stuff and then i'll read the things i'll be oh i like that i like that yeah i get this so i'm kind of just learning with it as well although i have one survivor this is just a u.s survivor uk survivor it's so different so no i'm enjoying i'm kind of like watching and learning at the same time and there's stuff that's similar stuff that's different i'm just kind of yeah learning as i go but i'm enjoying it and i think i'm always happy to be like to learn as i go i'm never i never have to be an expert in

[00:04:39] anything i like to just see how it goes well i love how much you are like yeah investing and like reading about everything i mean this season is crazy as like as calling it the season the at least the pre-merge of plurality votes to just to just recap where we were through this pre-merge the first vote that was fine they voted out steph that was an actual majority the second vote where kevin went was a 3-1 in a five-person vote it was meant to be two concurrent 2-1-1 that was meant to be the

[00:05:06] first 2-1-1 we're kind of like final destination the first 2-1-1 in us by the history um say didn't realize that she was piling onto a kevin vote she thought it was a different 2-1-1 where maybe she was going to be the target of a 2-1-1 depending where justin went maybe mary would go 2-1-1 then justin and cedric thought they were 2-1-1 in kevin out of the game but she piled on made it was 3-1 but still three people of the five were blindsided like say was blindsided by that kevin was clearly blindsided mary didn't know what's happening so again a majority did not

[00:05:32] technically rule the day it was the two people then obviously at the vote where justin goes sedric unanimously deciding with say not a majority then last week we had the two winning with their advantages over three not a majority and this week we have we don't know if mitch was included if mitch was included that's actually a majority to be three out of these five people or it literally was two of five and we don't know if mitch was just splitting and we can talk about it but that is

[00:05:57] crazy it's been said cedric has voted for six people in five episodes it is a lot yeah is it good in many ways i mean i like getting into the prison dilemmas that we'll get into i like i like getting into you know votes that are so small that there's so much meaning behind each of them where like everyone can be their own swing vote and we can talk about it from so many different ways i feel upset comes at the expense of like the justins and the bianca who go on the same journey a forced to lose the same vote um camilla ironically who got the vote would have been okay even without

[00:06:24] her vote with carl idol but yeah i mean it's at their expense sometimes it's getting like way too finicky as we've said variety can be nice scope can be nice but yeah we definitely i think find the fun in it we find the conversation but it is definitely very very extreme um yeah would you agree with that yeah definitely i just think though what i don't get about the u.s survivor is why do they always take vote to it why why are we always losing wonderful question i don't like that because

[00:06:51] it just brings so many different problems and it does ruin people's games which is a bit i don't know like it stops people from maybe everyone wants to go on saliva to play but then it maybe it doesn't incentivize um incentivize insensitize yeah it doesn't incentivize you to play it doesn't it doesn't make you want to play like i've seen um bianca's exit interview and like a little clip of it on twitter with mike and yeah just like she was saying she wanted to go on the journey because

[00:07:18] it's going on a journey but she also didn't want it but then she it's just i don't know it doesn't help the players yeah i mean well definitely i mean like bianca again like she her tribe chose to go on the journey which was at least more agency than justin had in losing his vote but again her tribe choose her to go on the journey because they trust her like that should be a positive thing but instead she loses out for it and she loses all of her agency here like they didn't want to get rid of her at any point they could have gotten rid of her even just cedric and chrissy who end up being on

[00:07:46] the two-on-one to get rid of her if they're committed to taking out bianca we could talk about it they could two-two-one her out of the game either way like whether she votes for um say with um with mitch they could two-one-one her because at that point it would be say um it would be two votes say two vote bianca and then if they vote out bianca over say then that's the choice that even chrissy would be making at that point if she wanted bianca out the most um if she's voting for chrissy would say then cedric at that point and mitch would vote out bianca over chrissy so

[00:08:16] if they ever wanted her out they would take her out it's because she goes from being a swing vote actually pits two sides against each other where they're both relying on her to not having the power to do that and she loses her vote and i feel bad for her that that's what it comes to because you know that's not necessarily fun and i think that a lot of the times i love two-one-ones i like the number one two-one-one stand and this this is fun in a different way we'll talk through the prisoner's dilemma but usually it's fun because what happens is in a four-person vote it's like

[00:08:45] everyone is voting um there's you know three votes on one and then someone screwed themselves like someone could have taken it to a two-two and didn't someone split their vote stupidly on a two-one-one and that's why they go home that's usually the fun of it that your vote could have so much meaning to take you to a tie but you stupidly get blindsided split your vote take it in the wrong direction and then two people come over the top and vote you out that's usually the fun that's clearly not why bianca goes like this is a different situation where she goes because her vote is lost her agency

[00:09:14] is lost she can't be relied on as a vote that people want to need and then becomes collateral damage when people feel they have no other option even though there were other options we can talk about but people feel limited without her number and then she becomes expendable to them yeah and i think what are the chances that cedric has been to all these tribal councils so far and he's someone's told him about losing the vote and that they don't have a vote and he's voted them out

[00:09:39] and someone's not told him that they've lost the vote and he's still voted them out so he's been in this kind of the same dilemma twice and i think yeah i think it's quite mad i think cedric's a very interesting character and i think he's been like in the thick of it um and yeah there's a lot to talk about cedric and his dynamics with him let's talk about cedric because i'm going to praise cedric a little bit more than i think the internet has um i don't think this was amazing we can talk through

[00:10:06] all of his many decisions because really at different points he has a decision to send home say and chrissy possibly and bianca like he really has a choice of three people in the tribe and i just at a point i just really want to credit the power that cedric has had like say has been to four tribal councils and has been blindsided at like this one um at the kevin blindside and even half like at the justin blindside like she's been blindsided at two and a half of four tribal councils and even then i'm

[00:10:33] like it's been a lot you know like good for you like even and cedric has had power and knowledge and control at all four so at a point you have to credit cedric for the fact that bianca does come to him over anyone but the fact that justin didn't want to work with him say wanted to work with him more than anyone that he's been in all these groups that's the first thing i'm going to do to praise um cedric because i think a lot of people questions his decisions what did you think about the move he was making here he prioritizes say and then goes to take out um bianca which really

[00:11:02] like saves say of anyone like what did you think about the moves he was making here i think it's really interesting from cedric's point of view so he's like been through this game start from the start right up till now with say and i think say seen say has seen every move that cedric's made and i think it probably doesn't do say he doesn't probably he probably doesn't give say an advantage if if say goes pre-merge but then maybe she's in the jury she's seen the moves

[00:11:30] like she'll be there and um and she can back up like all the moves he's made so far but she's probably a good shield as well to cedric i think like she not blew up again but she she was very vocal at the reward challenge about the croissants she was i know she she doesn't rub up well with mary but she was very vocal and people have heard and cedric will have seen that and he'll have seen that people are a bit frustrated with how she was speaking and maybe he sees her as a shield and

[00:11:58] and yeah and he's also saved it before as well so like saved it from himself though yeah yeah true yeah yeah he had to do it but i don't know i think it's an interesting dynamic between the two because he can he could i think he can use her but you could also cut her and she's seen all the moves he's made and i think she'd be good in the jury for cedric's case that's a really interesting point i mean she still probably has a little while to go before she gets to a jury and

[00:12:25] honestly tbd if she makes it considering how many people she's offended bianca said in her exits that laggy all wouldn't work with say they've never even met her um they obviously chrissy doesn't like her that might be thiever not liking her she has had her own issues on vula as well so she might not make it there she might be a good mercatory boot which we can talk through as we look through the next week but i do think that the shield capacity is interesting i think from a jury perspective um it is one to look at if she's not too mad and then i wonder about coming back to this

[00:12:52] tribe now that is a big if you would assume you're going to merge next time again the last time six people were voted out of the new era which would be next week um in the pre-merge was in 41 a long long time ago there's also to be fair like other injuries but like that have happened so they haven't had an injury they might think it could be extended they don't usually swap so that's a bit um a bit different although again in 45 when they did swap they would merge next week but assuming you're going

[00:13:17] to not merge next week that's a big if maybe and if you're being cautious on not merging next week i do think they're the weakest tribe and i do think getting rid of say is not a great spot for like if say goes there then chrissy and mitch have all the control and we see mitch has been close to bianca cedric's been close to mitch but i feel like cedric maybe could go there whereas if you get rid of bianca then you come back to a 2-2 where you could cut say and even more if you get rid of chrissy which we'll talk about then you come back to your 2-1 one with say you and say in control

[00:13:46] and mitch and bianca where you have all the control so i think coming back to the group assuming you might and you don't want to rely on regulatory despite the precedent being quite high and it ends up happening but like i think that that is a possibility to keeping say for me which makes you know keeping say a fine decision for me personally yeah i agree and i think definitely the shield i get what you mean we might be quite far off a jury at the moment but yeah keeping her as

[00:14:13] shield good idea it with the fact that laggy don't even um like will never work with her they've never met her that's quite a mad a mad concept and yeah i think he's got a lot of control cedric now coming back but i like the idea of him maybe get rid of chrissy and then him and uh cedric can say having that 2-1-1 yes let's talk about that let's talk about whether he could have done that because i do want to about say i think the question anyone would ask is she a shield or an anchor like you

[00:14:41] want to like and this was like true of like rome last season with genevieve it's like if you're going to be a shield which genevieve recovered from very well but she was a you know she did that very well or is it going to be like i don't even want to be associated with say um that might be the issue but i think coming back to the 2-1-1 with say or even again having her as fodder to cut next time if you go to tribal is the option so then it becomes should he have cut chrissy like let's talk through this 2-1-1 and how in its pure form it's a prisoner's dilemma and then there are

[00:15:09] intricacies that make it a different prisoner's dilemma for both chrissy and cedric because chrissy and cedric are both in this position where again if they switch their vote like if like at the point where they're going to the other person and saying we should vote for bianca and trying to split the other pair's vote their two could technically try and come over the top and win on a different 2-1-1 right like if cedric votes for say chrissy will go if sorry if cedric votes votes for chrissy with say

[00:15:35] chrissy will go home 2-1-1 so that's a that's a threat that chrissy like made herself vulnerable to and if if now that cedric has voted for bianca if chrissy votes with mitch to say say will go home 2-1-1 because they've split their two votes so that becomes a prisoner's dilemma of what they could do so can i talk you through this prisoner's dilemma of yeah yeah of the the just on its pure prisoner's dilemma it like at the broadest this is a pure prisoner's dilemma because like take it from

[00:16:03] cedric's point of view and then you can just flip it if he again if he betrays and she collaborates and he votes out chrissy that's like say that's first prize and he wins on that 2-1-1 if they both collaborate that's second then they what happens what we saw happens and that's that they vote bianca out um on that 2-1-1 if they both betray each other it goes to a 2-2 now if you imagine that 2-2 is just threatening but like it's like more threatening than just bianca going home

[00:16:30] but like less threatening than just outright losing the day for either of them then that's like the betray where like chrissy doesn't necessarily want to be like in a 2-2 where she could be voted for technically even though she wouldn't have to pick a rock um cedric might have to pick a rock so just looking at like the threat of that 2-2 broadly but there are intricacies that will make this different and then if he votes for bianca and splits his vote and then they vote for say then say will go home 2-1-1 and he loses and you can flip that so that's like the pure

[00:16:58] prisoner's dilemma and then there are intricacies is that making sense just on it's making sense i feel like i'm getting a master class in us and i'm loving it i'm like i'm here for it i love that and also yeah it's i think i worked out what's whether they made the right move or the wrong move through pure game theory and math so i think it did work out but okay so it's different though for cedric and chrissy and here is why there's a few different reasons for cedric firstly he's not a target so

[00:17:25] the stakes actually are a lot lower for cedric that's the first thing that makes it different the second thing is that if it goes to a 2-2 it does feel like say would go home so again like that actually makes again the stakes lower again so basically what it is for him is if he betrays then chrissy might go home if he's betrayed back or if they or if he's sorry if they collaborate chrissy would go home if they betray back it feels like say would go home so it's like chrissy option

[00:17:54] if he betrays or say option if he collaborates then bianca will go home if they collaborate back or if they betray say will go home so the stakes are lower where it's like chrissy or say depending on what he does if that's the betray option or bianca or say so it's like either way if they betray say will probably go home so he can take the shot so the stakes are lower for him because he can't go home and again they can kind of get their way if they vote for say which we can talk about but for him

[00:18:21] that makes the stakes lower and another thing that i think makes the stakes lower is between chrissy and bianca as targets there are probably pros and cons either way like again if chrissy goes home he comes back to the 2-1-1 that's good he can work with bianca that's good but if bianca goes it feels like he has connections to the siva tribe which is pretty good and again if they go to tribal council he say would be next and not him so the stakes are kind of lower where this is kind of

[00:18:47] fine for me either way i probably lean to betraying chrissy that's what the math would say but the stakes are lower enough where i feel like he either target was okay like how do you feel about it for him if he could in taking out bianca as a target for him or chrissy as a target for him i think what he's doing is and what you've said is he's he's chose the lower risk option oh i think either either way i think cedric's kind of in a good position but he's just chose the

[00:19:15] easiest option like the lowest risk option and it worked and the fact that bianca come up to cedric and told her told him that he doesn't have um she didn't have a vote it's kind of he puts a lot of power in cedric's hands as well and i think yeah he's got the he's in the driver's seat and he and he made the right decision for himself but he could have made other decisions that worked for him it was all on all in cedric's hands really yeah it definitely was and like the more i think about it

[00:19:41] the more i think maybe chrissy staying is the better option for him than bianca because even though it doesn't come back to the 211 that connection through to siva who have not lost a member yet and maybe going to be quite powerful might be where he wants to go and we don't necessarily know i mean he works with chrissy here to make this move i don't know how social collaborative that was between them it was literally a collaboration in the prison's dilemma but um i don't know if it's how much like we both don't want to go to a 2-2 right so let's instead come over the top and do this

[00:20:09] thing like i don't know if it was more like using leverage or if it was more social it probably was social so if he can work with chrissy and siva like that's probably quite good for him and again whatever like whatever he does if they choose to vote for say say will probably go so the stakes of like him losing is very low stakes because they actually have the power in that in that world and him winning is like a more even choice between chrissy and bianca for me so the more i talk about it the more i'm like okay on this lower stakes decision for cedric and then again i'm higher on keeping say

[00:20:36] around as we said jury potential possibly as a shield um yeah the 2-1-1 potential i really think he needs to keep say around for a possible another round of the pre-merge once he's decided that i think he can go either way so i'm okay with the way that he went in taking out bianca yeah he's definitely got options going forward now and i think yeah with the og siva drive if he wants to go in there with them guys he can and i think i don't know how much he knows but like bianca obviously just well she lost a vote and then she lost her closest ally in promise

[00:21:06] so it's kind of like there are options right to cut her yeah so i think i think court and bianca there's not really anyone you could go with i think she lost thomas but then there's more options with the stiva tribe yeah so again so again i think actually think that that ends up being fine because of the kind of intricacies in the prison dilemma compared to chrissy now chrissy's prison dilemma which kind of shifts whether it's actually a prison dilemma for both of them but

[00:21:34] chrissy's dilemma is interesting because firstly her stakes are much much higher for a couple of different reasons she's the target she left herself vulnerable to going home now maybe she's reading cedric correctly that they're happy to just like cut bianca now and it's just like the easier thing to do where they think they're going to come back to emerge or he knows he's going to be in with siva maybe she's reading that he's correctly like that he's choosing siva for all the reasons that we've given but she did technically open herself up to being betrayed here and being sent home if

[00:22:01] that's what he chose to do and we also see some merit in keeping bianca and sending her out so she opened her own self to going home not just like an ally possibly like cedric did and again like cedric is going to have either way the reason that cedric is going to possibly lose say either way is that if she chooses to vote for say here say almost definitely goes because the two-two tie say say probably goes when cedric probably has to swap rather than going to rocks um to vote for say it means that again yeah if she chooses say here it doesn't matter what cedric does it's either

[00:22:30] a two-two if he betrays back and say goes or they two-one-one say out of the game so she had a lot of power to take out say and say is a way better target for her than bianca like they were working with bianca they said they really like bianca she doesn't like say at all so i think in the fact that she opened herself up to extreme risk of going and opened herself out up to risk for a worse target for her that's why i think that this was very much a um a bad decision for i mean she

[00:22:59] technically goes to the two-two she can try to trust cedric to take out say next time but she does it she could come back to a two-one-one with people she actually wants to work with and not say and for not doing that she opened herself up to possibly getting two-one-one out of the game so i think that math has shown that this was not the right thing for christy she should have stuck strong on the say vote and either taken it to a two-two or just two-one-one say out of the game a different way yeah i agree i think she had yeah do you think she's made the wrong decision there then so she's

[00:23:26] made the wrong decision but not going to say she opened herself up imagine if imagine if cedric went to her and was like we should vote for bianca and she was like okay and then she did and then he was like actually we can run out christy i have all the sway here and then votes out chris and she goes home on that like that would be the stupid two-one-one that we talk about in other times where your your vote splitting your one vote is what sent you home but we've ended up with kind of like the boring two-on-one well there's no boring two-on-one really but i mean it was kind of boring in australian

[00:23:53] fiber 2018 because shawnee couldn't win fire there's a whole different story but um no i mean i think that that would have been really interesting for him that would have been cedric tricking her into splitting her vote and then coming over the that would have been actually more interesting the collaborative 2-1-1 is the boring 2-1-1 him betraying her there would have been fascinating all of the fun but yeah i i think she really opened herself up to risk here she was clearly reading it correctly for credit to her but she opened herself up to risk and she got at a much worse target she wants to work

[00:24:22] with bianca and say although bianca wasn't going to go with them but she seemed open to all connections like i feel like that could play out in the future whereas like she and say are openly feuding at a point you know yeah and i think it gives yeah it gives cedric and say a bit of power going forward and yeah christian hasn't really helped herself in that situation yeah but yeah i really it's exciting i think the dynamics are just so like because there's the number because with the three

[00:24:47] tribes what i find is because the numbers are so small every vote is just so important they're so the differences are so small and i find that really fascinating and i think because like i'm used to watching the survivors with the bigger tribes yeah these little tribes and then half of them don't have votes and then one of them's got an idol like it's mad dynamic yeah well 100 like i really do feel really bad for yeah bianca who had both sides playing against each other here um which is the the crazy

[00:25:15] thing is that they were going to i mean maybe maybe mitch and chrissy thought they had cedric as well but like really she went from being the swing vote to the target just through a total lack of agency because she didn't have a vote and that makes even a prisoner's dilemma very hard to swallow here yeah yeah it's like a prisoner who's got nothing like no hands to fight with you know what i mean she's never getting out of that one it was really really painful

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[00:27:05] starte dein testen heute für 1 euro pro monat auf shopify.de slash radio where do you stand on Say and Chrissy's feud um I mean Say is feuding with everyone like say again Laggy have never met her and have decided not to work she's feuding with well how did you think of firstly feuding with Mary on the mat and then coming back to the whole like fruit gate of it all like

[00:27:32] where do you see what Say is doing socially because you are someone who like one of my favorite things from your deep dive is you were like yeah I just would never kind of put anyone off like I'd eat less than I would sleep you know in the worst place of the day I would sleep you know in the worst place of the day I if I needed to like I would just do that and I was like it's crazy that you've worked this out and people so much older than you haven't say is like the anti Matthew in that way where she's like I want my kiwi so like as a social expert like how do you see what Say is doing socially in some of these interactions with even people on other tribes

[00:28:00] social expert I like the sound of it well I've got all my notes here I love it you can't have a social game come in with the math and that and then between the two of us will be unstoppable that's what we need social math together yeah that's that's what I want yeah yeah honestly when I listen to Say um have like a little go at Mary on the mat that's what made me think it's something I would never do because it's like

[00:28:24] you have to think yourself is what I'm about to say now worth is it is it worth doing this so publicly it's like anything you do publicly you're open to scrutiny for everyone on all the tribes why would you do that like in my season of Survivor UK Lee was very open very competitive very always like saying stuff to the other tribes and like yes it's your own game and it's like you don't need to say stuff like sometimes just keep your mouth shut and that's the best option and less can be more instead of

[00:28:53] making a scene but yeah I think saying Mary I don't know why why they hate each other so much but it's just it's um it's mad that it went so far I think even just yeah keep your mouth shut don't say anything and unless he's more on the mat especially on the mat in front of other people it's mad yeah especially because I feel like Mary was answering like a really generic question from Jeff where he's like are you excited and she was like yeah and like maybe she spoke a little

[00:29:22] bit too much about the food but it was like such a kind of like broad question um it was like really nothing and then like obviously you know she comes back that and she upsets people on her own tribe who also have lost with her but I will say I want to say this I agree with her in her feud with Chrissy should she say it no obviously you don't say you don't have to say like every you know maybe that's why her name is say because she says everything that she says and that's that's been there the whole time but I think that I agree with her when she's like I need a break and I want some fruit

[00:29:52] and Chrissy's like I've never done a challenge I've never sat out of a challenge it's like you've never been to tribal council at that point she was going to tribal council every night they didn't have fire for like 10 days yeah she deserves a break more than anyone it's true and she deserves fruit now people don't necessarily get what they deserve on Survivor that's still going to upset people but objectively say was correct I want to put that out there yeah no I agree with that as well yeah it's very easy to not go into tribal council and just because she's sat out at one challenge does

[00:30:21] not mean that she like she can't have a break she's been out every night at tribal council up again no fire challenge tribal council challenge tribal council like she's had it pretty rough is there a record as well for like a tribe going to tribal council in a row because well yes we no we get that a lot actually like most seasons as a disaster tribe who goes to tribal council like a hell of a lot because they're like engineering disaster tribes who go to tribal council like all the time and then they don't have fire so they keep going more and then they can't like

[00:30:51] you know get anything together and it just compounds so no it's a record since season 45 so three seasons but no but even even Yannu actually to be fair that was just a medivac it's a two season it's a two season record Matt that's where we're at with them this is what it's like in Survivor US yes that's the disaster tribes are a really big part of it so she having been a part of that I will say it helps you get cheesy points you know going to

[00:31:17] these tribal councils and it helps you with confessionals she's broken the confessional record to be fair it's longer episodes but she has 42 confessionals so she's broken the five episode confessional record at every point the next highest in the season is Kyle with 24 and she has 18 more she has almost double and he's that's insane it's crazy 42 in five episodes is mad for kind of anything isn't it that's well not for Australian Survivor but yeah for US Survivor

[00:31:42] it's unheard of so literally it's historic so that is crazy if you're going to tribal council all the time and so there is a positive thing if you're surviving it I know maybe you're losing a lot of like a lot of tribe mates but I think it's a positive thing if you keep going tribal council and you keep surviving getting a lot of confessionals you're still in the game I kind of I like the idea I used to like going to tribal council sometimes you know especially at the start in the pre-merge of the UK

[00:32:11] when I was on Calaton I used to know I didn't mind tribal council sometimes because if you socially if you play well enough it's all right yeah well we have seen people do really well from disaster tribes like you come in as less of a threat um and you come in with possible options that emerge where you look at like something maybe like a sea bears like this big block which we'll talk about for them so there are pros and cons but the con is definitely you know having to fight for your life in that first week maybe needing a bit of a break and a kiwi fruit and I think that that's acceptable and maybe

[00:32:40] people should have empathy to that but the thing is as well is like if Chrissy doesn't like it then it's bad social play you know like you don't want to put people off even if you I think you have the moral high ground um I think that's true and you really don't want to keep going to tribal councils and losing your vote and then getting screwed out of the game like I think you know going to tribal council if you're a good player to like help your skills and whatever that could be a good thing but when there's so much diminished agency in the new era it really just feels like at a point you're opening yourself up to a game of chance so like I don't think that being in the disaster tribe is

[00:33:08] something I would want although it has worked out for the people who survive it but like I would rather be like in it to win it to get to the merger and some people have not been to tribal council yet and look at how Cedric and Say have fought for their lives yeah and you're looking yeah some people not going then some people have been to tribal council with like four people where so yeah it's it's a game of chance it is sometimes a game of chance if someone doesn't have a vote someone's got an idol shot in the dark the shot in the dark I think that's a mad concept as well

[00:33:35] so it's one in six chance so there's one scroll in six that says safe yeah what are the chances well what are the chances one in six yeah that is the chance but that that's putting your ball game on that's crazy yeah and you're two seasons in and you've literally won survivor and it's still it's this complicated talking about where you know where the people get screwed over went wrong would you see anywhere that Bianca went wrong like what did she do here to take agency over the fact

[00:34:02] that to be fair she had diminished agency but do you think she like was it wrong to tell Cedric about her lost vote was that on her well I think she's instantly then given Cedric power but I don't know what reason though I don't know why she would actually why do you why does Cedric need to know this I think she's maybe trying to build a bit of like a bit of a good rapport between them both thinking that the trust will help but you kind of get why Cedric would look at

[00:34:31] that and think oh well Bianca doesn't have a vote tick like it just makes Cedric's job maybe easier knowing that but then we see Cedric someone's told him that um that they don't have a vote he votes him out someone doesn't tell him he votes him out yeah I don't know I think I think she tried it was kind of going down fighting trying yeah it's a very tough one

[00:34:55] I think for her she was trying she was thinking about coming back and having to manage everyone being angry and the first issue I have with that is like get back on the beach like at the point where you're back on the beach to a probable merge like that is future Bianca's problem like I think it's it's a running issue I kind of see also in Australian survivor a lot of this at the moment where it's like people operating from the wrong leverage point like yeah you want to have the luxury of protecting your future game of course you do but if you literally don't know if you'll

[00:35:23] survive tonight and you don't even have a vote get through tonight and then worry about it in three hours from now and you'll be in a lucky position to worry about it because you'll be in the game to worry about it and I think that she's got future planning from a position that she didn't have like yeah just hoping that Cedric will flip on say on the revote when there's a 2-2 which seemed likely to happen and she's not one of the options that was her best bet so I think that that was a mistake and I also think this is a big thing in Australian survivor at the moment stop telling people things

[00:35:49] right before you go to tribal council this is the kind of thing where everyone who says it is like I did it so I could control the situation and every single time we see the person feels like they are trying to be controlled and they don't like that and they will then lash out to try and assert their own control by either blowing up your spot or finding a new plan as Cedric does here it's obvious you're doing it in self-interest it's obvious you're doing it for control like the fact that you're doing it then to have control is so clear that people don't want you to have control and they fight against it even if you're even if they're looking at gift horse in the mouth and

[00:36:18] you're actually doing them a favor which just happened in Australian survivor they will try and assert their agency when they feel like put upon right before tribal council so I feel like he probably felt like you're not cornering me into this and honestly if she'd given him more time he might have been like okay maybe we'll 2-1-1 Chrissy out you know like maybe he would have a felt more trust and be like thought through the very complicated quasi prisoners dilemma that I've already gone through for him but in the moment it's just like she doesn't have a vote I feel scared

[00:36:46] I feel scared for say okay at the point where I'm prioritizing say which we're saying is fine for him I need to then I can't think of another thing to get out Chrissy I need to like I've diminished trust with Bianca she's trying to control me and I need to just exploit that vulnerability so I think that there's a lack of trust and yet a lack of time for him to actually come to a plan that may be better for him but certainly be better for her and might actually use their relationship positively rather than it feeling like an attack in that moment we see this all the time in current survivor where people

[00:37:16] are doing it right before and it's just so transparent for me and I think with the lack of time for Cedric to think the easiest thing to do is to probably not go with Bianca so she kind of shot herself in the foot there but I also get why Bianca maybe would tell him it's she's scrambling she's trying to think of anything probably not the right the best timing just before tribal council and I think Cedric even says something like she's come to me just before tribal council like it's just a bit of a mess and it is because then you second guess it and he's just going to do the easiest

[00:37:45] thing for him in that situation 100% and just just like that does feel like you just are like then like completely shifted into a corner where you have to do like the expendable thing and she feels super expendable and she's so vulnerable at that point rather than like I'm coming to you so we can like do something together where you can actually help me and maybe at that point if he can trust her and really feels like he has that trust with her and really has the time and space to think about it maybe then you go to Chrissy and like we should vote for Bianca but then votes in 2-1-1 over the top

[00:38:12] like maybe there's an option for him there but it does feel like the easiest thing in the moment is just like we'll just we'll just vote for her because it's probably going to be either her or say getting to that Chrissy option is harder and more difficult to think about and more definitely more difficult to do so at that point well I mean he does get Chrissy to vote for Bianca but he would have to then think to come over the top and vote for her so maybe it's a similar like effort level but like thought level and like thinking through all the permutations as we've just done for 30 minutes

[00:38:39] he didn't have that and maybe had he had the day to think about it and more trust with her like maybe he would have come to that and maybe like it seemed like his order if we wanted to keep might have been like say first and once he like was really trying to keep say it seems like okay well now I have to vote out um Bianca and like Chrissy last if he could have found a way to like maybe take out Chrissy which was saying could be fine for him to keep her but if he felt like there was a way he could have taken her out like maybe he would have come to that and chosen Bianca over Chrissy

[00:39:04] but he just wasn't going to choose or over say yeah true and I think it was interesting what you say about come back to camp messy like instead of not coming back to camp at all which has happened to Bianca come back to the camp in a mess as long as you're still in the game that that's the best that's the best thing but obviously Bianca's been tried to save a relationship or tried to build on something if she does come back just yeah come back and resolve that tomorrow you've got another day in

[00:39:30] the game yeah there's like this real big chance you can emerge as well so it's like you have a new complete life in the game like really it just feels like you need to come back this is again very very topical in Australian Survivor at the moment as well about whether people should just like take the easier thing and then not future plan as much if they don't if they can't afford to so I definitely think I think it cornered say and I think that she misjudged how much of like say would be his priority because she said an exit that she was telling him like say has come for you

[00:39:58] she knows that it's been you know dramatic with Vula but maybe doesn't understand the level that Vula will still show up to each other that Cedric will continue to prioritize say when you know the chips are down and I feel like maybe she she misjudged that connection between say and Cedric yeah the say and Cedric like dynamic is is it's funny because like he single-handedly saved her twice like he's kept her in the game twice yeah it'll be interesting to see where it goes and like how he uses her

[00:40:26] yeah later on in the game and how it ends up probably falling apart from both together yeah again one of the times he did save it from himself but this time he actually went out of his way to save say like when Bianca's coming to him she's like say is going home and he changes it to actively save say and I hope that she kind of sees that connection and maybe it even buys back some good will that he's lost fairly over the time with her so it's a very interesting um very interesting relationship what did you think about um people are saying people are joking that this vindicates

[00:40:54] Justin because Justin didn't tell Cedric about his vote it was a big reason possibly maybe that he went home Cedric didn't trust him as much but then Bianca told Cedric about her like her lack of vote and then he sent her home and people are like well you know you can't win like how did you see him doing this I just think though the tribal council where Justine did go home was the craziest tribal council I've ever seen yeah just kind of what was going on same almost

[00:41:22] yeah we have to give Cedric some sort of thing of I understand maybe emotions are high at the time his head was probably everywhere he's got say say pitched him quite well at the time she was got she was quite passionate in there I trusted you um I've trusted you with everything he's a liar he's a liar say was really like giving it to him in the moment yeah tribal council so all that has to kind of be accepted um yeah but I just think yeah I don't I don't think he should have he should have saved

[00:41:52] Bianca just because he took she told him about um not having a vote even though Justin I think it's just unfortunate for Justin that that Cedric went against him but I do think say yes it spoke well in that tribal council when Justin went home and she kind of she played on his emotions Cedric as well does seem like a very respectable he's a surgeon he's an emotional guy he's a family man I don't know I think I think say really really doing well by by saving himself and I completely agree with you I

[00:42:21] think that Justin went much more for how say out argued him than him not telling about the vote now again that's something she very much used in that argument so maybe it's hard to separate that but yeah I feel like she was probably arguing a lot more about their relationship where he'd referred to her as a daughter in this game um we see that priority here again like there's clearly a connection there I feel like she just really used that argument and I actually really feel like as funny as the jokes are this is such a different situation because I feel like Justin had been Cedric's

[00:42:47] priority until he was out argued he was Cedric's priority so I didn't see a reason not to tell Cedric because then it becomes I don't have a vote what's my fault wasn't Bianca's fault either but you need to protect me and like shore us up and again there was almost no way Justin could go if Cedric just stayed with him so just like keeping that trust and just like keeping Cedric on track was fine like that's like I'm telling you this so that you maintain me because I'm your priority which he had been whereas Bianca gave him the gap to exploit for his actual priority which was say so that's

[00:43:16] I think the difference is that Justin would have been going to him as a priority and Bianca went to him to target his priority and say and then he saw the gap to just like again fall back on a Bianca vote so I think I get the jokes but I do think it is it's quite different as funny as it is that Cedric has been faced with this twice in the four travel councils that he's been to thus far I get what you mean twice it's the same thing but like you were saying very different kinds of circumstances with who and and the and the situations he was in with them both yeah um

[00:43:46] I I also wanted to ask do you think that Mitch was in on this so the two options are that he because we didn't see him even go to Chrissy right so that's crazy from an editing perspective I wonder if we're getting the flashback starting off the the next episode I know they were talking about this on No-It-Alls but um yeah we didn't even see him go to Chrissy so we don't know how the plan was formed Mitch in the moment it's hard to tell if he was shocked because he's so focused in his like kind Mitch way on comforting Bianca um it was hard to tell if he was not in on the split and again if

[00:44:15] even if he's not in is that just because Cedric just didn't have time to tell Mitch like was it literally just like functional that he went to Chrissy did he only want to go to Chrissy when we've seen him be closer with Mitch or was Mitch included but he was in on a split but it's very clear that Bianca doesn't have an idol for me clearly in the way that she's acting in very desperate ways um I don't know if you would try to read that but um yeah I mean I don't think they necessarily know where the laggy idol is if Bianca would have told them about Sari maybe throwing Sari on the bus but

[00:44:44] again can you even believe that so it feels like he doesn't have an idol and the split only takes it to a one-to-one anyway where the two Bianca votes are negated and Say has voted for Chrissy and now Mitch has voted for Say and then Cedric has to turn on her anyway so it's not even a great split so I don't know that I know that Mitch was splitting here because I don't think it makes a lot of sense but then if he went down to him I don't know if that's intentional either like I don't know if they just don't have time to tell him I agree I think he wasn't involved in the split but it wasn't like

[00:45:13] a big intentional thing of keep Mitch out and I think with his vote going towards Say that kind of proves with all the drama of Say not being very well liked and stuff that vote on Say maybe makes me think it's just a yeah just a vote that he's plucked out and say he's just I want to unvote for Say because that's why I think he proves in vote for Say that he wasn't part of the split

[00:45:40] yeah well yeah I mean it's not a great it's not a great split on an idol that seems non-existent so yes yeah I think we're gonna get a lot of this information early on it would have been cool to get the flashback in the moment but it's fine but we're just having to guess I guess I hope that he was left out for like the first pure 2-1-1 it's going to feel upsetting if the first 2-1-1 in USWI history was actually just a split vote that's really going to take a lot of the fun out of it and that's also well to be fair I would say that that's going to take like everything out of the

[00:46:06] prison dilemma but not really because if you go into them being like you guys split your vote like you're still doing the same thing functionally where you can come over the top so yeah um then there would be a whole different thing about maybe we shouldn't split the vote that's the thing as well is that then they'd be leaving themselves if Mitch is in on it and then they're leaving themselves open to possibly yeah then then Chrissy going home they're splitting their their two votes that feels crazy that feels like if I was Chrissy and they were splitting the vote I would be like

[00:46:34] we'll vote for Bianca you vote for say you know and I don't know if he's going to do that but if he's not going to do that then maybe that's the issue you know like there isn't actually like enough votes there isn't enough votes to like split every time in in Survivor US there's like three votes so important maybe you don't want to split it every time yeah like literally splitting your vote could could change like everything like Temple yeah well we just talked about like how risky it

[00:47:01] was for Chrissy to do the 2-1-1 and that she could have gone home so if she's actively if they have a three-person majority and she's actively splitting her vote again on a really bad split but they have to come back to a one-to-one anyway on a probable non-idol like just think about it in the moment that's not a good move like don't don't do that and then stick just stick tied to Mitch is probably yeah probably a good thing for the fact that she could have literally been 2-1-1 out of the game herself for either being in on 2-1-1 without Mitch or for actively splitting from Mitch in a plan he

[00:47:29] was in on either way it put her at extreme risk and I don't think the split was worth the squeeze on that one yeah I agree and then imagine splitting and then getting yourself forward out the game for a needless split it's quite that has happened though that's happened on bigger numbers but you'd hate to see it done when you literally had two numbers and you're like we're gonna do a little one vote split like I love a split but like you can't be splitting every time no honestly I feel like when I watch Survivor I don't I don't think I could deal with getting like

[00:47:59] but I know I haven't been voted out ever but I can deal with getting voted out by like a twist or like yeah that is a humble brag to me a twist or like something to like my own mistake like when I nearly messed up with that lobster part looking back at that I would have been voted out due to my own mistake and I don't think I'd have been able to live with myself yeah something that can actually change you know I mean that's why you got to play a near perfect game and then win that's the only way

[00:48:27] to play Survivor just to keep the demons in vain yeah 100% humble brag for sure but imagine the flex if Cedric got them in on a plan but got them to split their vote on a split that was like again not super definitely not essential and also very minimally functional if that got them to split their vote but being like if you take it to the 1-1 I'll vote with you and then 2-1-1 Chrissy out of the game now that actually would mean that he would like he'd be like Dr. Evil like people are

[00:48:52] talking about him like he's a sweet father and surgeon but like it's possible that he would be like he'd be like a King George level yeah like literally like killer surgeon that's when we'd be extreme yeah yeah you know they say that like surgery halfway through looks like murder yeah you could imagine um Cedric you know a big knife just you know what I mean yeah I think it's funny I think I

[00:49:18] think he's um I think he's funny he's a funny character because even at the tribal council when Justin went home when Sayer was like pitching to him and it was all emotional he did look just a bit like in shock and confused it was just like I don't think he knew what he was going to do or what he wanted to do until he did until he made the decision at the end he was quite yeah he was put on the spot but I like him I think he's kind of you get why he's that father figure he's like a friendly

[00:49:43] I get on with him I think yeah he's he's been in so much power but he's not reveling in it it's kind of like Joe who we'll talk about now who also it's like everyone loves me but I hate that because I'm gonna have to betray people and it's like he's cursed by his own power like everyone has liked and wanted to work with Cedric if you look at his tribes this is why he's had so much power like Kevin wanted to work with him Justin clearly wanted to work with him Say wanted to work with him so that was the majority that he had like total control on that tribe and then in this tribe Chrissy clearly did

[00:50:09] work with him Mitch has wanted to work with him we saw that really great connection between them um Bianca told him more than anyone about her lack of vote and say they've had the issues but have they've been closed in the past that's pretty good like that's why he's had this power but again like in using it some people might think it's more murder than surgery um maybe that's again what it looks like because we haven't seen how this turns out but I think that some of it does make sense and at least you have to credit the fact that he's in a position like that and I don't even think a decision today like this is really that bad if it's probably just fine it probably was fine

[00:50:39] yeah and I think as well sometimes like you said having too much having too much trust and too many people relying on you can lead to your downfall so I think it's about finding you don't want that you want to but especially for a character like Joe Joe's already big physical threat big uh like clearly a lovely guy like is it a bit too much though do you want all that kind of all them eyes on you

[00:51:04] because I don't think I would yeah well that's a great segue to talking about this moment with Eva which is making I don't know what's happening in the UK but in Australia it's making headlines here the last time US Survivor made headlines um in Australia was probably around Survivor Game Changers for worse reasons than this this is at least for positive reasons and it's crazy how much of a moment this was um you know for Eva what did you think about this moment obviously where Eva has

[00:51:30] the meltdown and Joe comforts her like this was this was a you know historic moment for the show it was quite like it was like theatre like what was happening it was quite it was it was mad and I think like the music the moment and the kind of it was a perfect moment we'd obviously seen in previous episodes and what we knew the situation and the fact it all kind of come and it was perfect how it worked and I think Eva said something like when Eva was struggling with the challenge she was getting

[00:51:59] frustrated and she she shouted why can't I do this why can't I do this and I think we went on in that couple minutes we went on a journey with Eva through through being like neurodiverse kind of thing and we and we got to see the levels of it of like the why can't I do this the frustration and the tears so that the emotion and then the overcoming of it and then the smiles at the end and it was kind of it was a lovely journey with Joe as well and it was like Joe thinks about his

[00:52:26] family his kids and it was just it was beautiful in the moment yeah um yeah it was a really it was a really emotional moment the thing that got me more than anything and like even on my rewatch today I can't not cry watching this Joe was amazing but Joe Joe is like an incredible human obviously it speaks for itself Joe's her number one ally Joe's this like huge bond that she has um but Star the way before even she gave the idol we'll talk about everything with Star and how this plays

[00:52:53] strategically but the way Star responded to Eva who has bid her ops like they have been at war pretty much we've seen no love lost between the two of them and the way she was holding Eva and encouraging her and saying like she was saying your dad will be proud of you and and when she came back to camp like the the incredible speech she gave her about how she'll inspire the next generation that that came from Star and opened up a connection between the two of them was so powerful to me and I really I love Star by the way like I just I feel like people don't get her and that

[00:53:21] she's putting people off but I really like her because I feel like there's no there's no malice like she's just out there trying to like play the game and the way she responded to Eva with so much compassion and empathy like oh I just I love that so much yeah I think Star this was a great episode for Star and I think this is I really what I liked about the situation is she was championing she was championing championing I can't speak she was championing Eva championing I can't even that's

[00:53:50] very I don't think I can say a word championing is it championing I think it's championing yeah she was championing championing Eva and like it kind of brings out a connection as much as it was a nice emotional moment in the more at the time that's obviously brought them to a connection especially everything to do with the idol as well how it kind of worked given the idol to Eva is interesting

[00:54:17] risky but good but also public does it help I don't know I'm not sure because dad yes or no on this very bold move to give Eva the idol it's a big move it's probably yes she's on the hill like she'll have to die on that hill she's done it it was probably yeah I think good idea Eva everyone kind of was rallying around Eva

[00:54:43] it was a good it was a there was a lot of emotion due to her like that she called it an episode that she had in there the challenge so I think yeah it was probably the right thing to do she's made an ally in Eva Eva is very like an emotional based player especially in that moment yeah yeah so I think she'll definitely remember what Star's done and that'll work with her down the line but yeah I think it'll maybe upper social currency

[00:55:09] going forward Stars well I like Star as well I think great episode yeah well this is a podcast of hot takes because I feel like people are coming very low on Cedric like what are you doing um Dr. Evil here and then people have like Star don't give away the idol and like we're kind of higher on Cedric and I think I'm going to agree with you that I don't hate this from Star it definitely was a lot I think in the moment at first I just again I love the connection but I actually thought this was really good from both Eva and Star

[00:55:35] because for Star you have a public idol that everyone knows about like again like Eva was her enemy and she already knew about it and people and she was already telling people about it I don't know how much Star knew that that was public but I've been told by Kieran from South Africa he had a great point that if something's ever you know a little bit out there you just assume it's fully out there like you at that point can't control the flow of information so by telling everyone yeah good he reclaims information gets it to a point where they should actually get her vote back

[00:56:00] if they would ever go to a tribal council and solve the idol and the beware advantage and actually get the idol and then you're gonna have this public idol which is going to make you a target so you're gonna have to burn it pretty much immediately did she get more utility out of really connecting with Eva in this really big moment that is again super super memorable like kind of thing that like you remember the way people treat you in your worst moments I think about that all the time like when I'd like grandparents pass away or my cat or you know

[00:56:26] like when the the people that were kind about it like you really remember that and I feel like in a moment like this which had you know big downs and big highs for Eva I think you remember a gesture that big in such a big moment and does she get more out of like connecting with Eva who she's been very disconnected from over having to probably burn it at Murgatory probably probably yes I actually

[00:56:49] think this was okay yeah I agree and I think given given that the public like you said it's a public idol that um Star couldn't even get anywhere so at the time before Eva opened it Star didn't have a vote so now Star's got the vote um a vote back she's give the public idol to Eva whereas it's maybe good not to hold the public idol but to give it to someone else you could probably the idol could still

[00:57:14] be used you know or either I give you the public idol remember yeah can you help me so she's not being in possession of the public idol but kind of owning it in Eva's pocket is nice yeah I agree because I think that Eva needs to use it like you know like quickly as it has to be used soon yeah yeah exactly and and for the group like she even says like this is for us and like what for whatever group like whether that's old laggy or this new group that's never been to tribal council that has

[00:57:40] no real connections like whatever she has to use it for her and Star in some like macro way to form a group or just burn it um so it could help Star anyway and I think that like that's what Eva needs to do I think that Eva responds really well to Star like even when Star gives that information which Eva knew already um because she'd been told by Joe but um she's like oh you're such a good liar and I really actually want to credit Eva for the way this was played like at first when everything

[00:58:06] happened you know when she has an episode which is so far beyond the game but like when she has an episode I'm thinking this is unfortunate for the gameplay because like it's probably pretty unfortunate for Joe and it's not great to like out their relationship and like also for both of them that story is going to be hard to overcome later in the game from a jury perspective but I think within how unfortunate parts of that are unfortunate and unavoidable she she does as well as she possibly

[00:58:30] can with it she gives context that she has to give in explaining her story and again it actually opens up these connections where people understand her better where Star understands her better and she can connect with people better so she probably could have put up a little bit of a fight in accepting the idol just a little bit to begin with but I think taking it to use it communally to use it like four star or in a group to build a group very very quickly is fine and I think the fact that out of this difficult situation she actually makes a bridge is a huge gap and makes the connection

[00:58:58] is really really good and I think in the moment explaining her story was very necessary in some ways there are things that are going to be difficult to overcome from a game perspective but she did really well with this especially even like the hurdles it presents absolutely and I think there's something so crazy from Eva opening up she's actually opened up star as well because we've seen that the trust wasn't there before that and credit to Eva who

[00:59:28] who said prior to this episode she struggles to spot liars and she shouldn't know when people are lying to her and like the social cues and stuff she played it so well even though she knew about the the idol and so she played oh shocked about the like that started an idol so yeah Eva opened up also opened up star and Eva's ended up with an idol in her pocket due to that so it's exactly it's credit to

[00:59:51] Eva where credit's due yeah I completely agree I would love to look ahead to where Murgatory goes knowing that they're going to be merging next week do you know why it's called Murgatory by the way have you been wait can I is it a mix can I guess this is again yeah a mixture of purgatory yeah and merge yes that's good from context clues you got it that's because they don't

[01:00:19] they aren't technically merged but they're all on the same beach and it's like basically emerging from the first time they did that they started calling it Murgatory and then people fight over who claimed the term and we've been called well people call it actually Murgatory I do the hard G and I refuse I like Murgatory I like Murgatory well that you're you're in the majority I'm just full of hot takes like all the time this whole podcast is hot takes it's Murgatory forever it's better that way that attaches to the purgatory part rather than the merge part and I

[01:00:45] just think it sounds better hey I love to be in the majority you know I mean keep myself in the majority and you're always okay well not this season where a majority again has decided to vote one time yeah right I'll be gone this is this is you want to be in the minority at the moment um okay so who let's look ahead at who could go because usually with Murgatory it feels like they often go for like easy consensus boots like Rome last season and they often go that way because half the people

[01:01:14] are um only half the people are vulnerable so people kind of get desperate you want to make sure your allies are safe like people tend to pile on targets um and I think there's a few good candidates we talked about say say people aren't loving say um if she's vulnerable and there aren't other targets available again like you don't want to work with her Siva Chrissy has it out for her is Mary protecting her maybe that would actually be incredible to watch I really love their journey but is Cedric protecting her maybe he's done it multiple times but I don't know that that will be enough I

[01:01:43] think that if there aren't other options I think say could be in trouble after playing more survivor in a couple of weeks than most people will play in a lifetime yeah definitely and I think that's the boring I feel I feel so boring saying that say will be the the Merger to reboot but if you look at everyone that's left say probably is the the common she'll be the the common the common target well no yeah might see Cedric try and try and save her again and then if Mary tries saving her well

[01:02:11] that'd be I would not hold my breath on that happening actually but then I do have another option who I think actually could be a priority in front of say and that is Charity who also has a lot of enemies seemingly her entire starting tribe now Eva as well um I think Charity could really be this Murgatory boot if she's vulnerable will depend obviously on like who wins what but we've seen David say he wants to get rid of her I was like that feels a little bit too early for him to do it at

[01:02:40] the swap he wanted to do it immediately they just had she hasn't got tribal council um but yeah I feel like this is the time like if if the rest of Siva want to move forward and they haven't lost a member yet and they want to maybe seem a little bit less scary losing a charity I think could really you know lessen that threat level and they all have a lot of other options to keep doing well it might be

[01:03:05] a little bit it might be see like it might feel like Siva should like hunker down and win because it's six Sivas and seven non-Sivas left four laggies and three voulers and Mitch has a blocker vote which is the only advantage and star slash Eva's idol in the game right now but getting into a 6-6 is tricky like how is that going um and then you even if you were to win that somehow you'd still come back to the 6-6 I feel like and they don't like Charity like I feel like you will be going to war for a group you don't really want whereas you can kind of like lose the battle quote unquote

[01:03:34] on your own terms possibly be less threatening no one really wants to work with Charity anyway and then maybe they think less about you if it's like five four three and not six three three or something where you just seems like a big gap yeah that extra person is a big gap in the sixth yeah yeah I think sacrificing one of the all and Charity probably is the one that they would definitely sacrifice yeah no that's a good show to be fair good show Charity I feel like I haven't

[01:03:59] seen loads of Charity am I wrong in saying that it doesn't go to tribal council yeah so I feel like yeah I feel like I barely know Charity but yeah I could see that happening yeah I just feel like the one thing we get is that people just don't feel great about her Mitch likes her Mitch is by the way more well suited to these tribal challenges than anyone I've pretty much ever seen in my life you see the way he like he just he nails like it's crazy yeah it's he's done amazing no he has I really

[01:04:24] like Mitch I think he's he's got a lot to give I think he's here for a long time in the game I can see him real far he might be the only person who's trying to save Charity so I feel like she could be a possible consensus like how do you see like where do you see everyone else who else are you liking by the way because we haven't even spoken about new Vula or what I'm calling Nula which is Camilla Kyle Joe and Shaheen who also have an incredible scene in this episode that was so educational and

[01:04:48] also just amazing I love all four of them and by the way fun fact about them in a secret scene Camilla said she likes them more than old Siva that's how bonded this four become after being at tribal council voting against each other last episode so that's also very different for the Siva-Lagi quote-unquote war this group actually are prioritizing each other over that possible quote-unquote war that's my I really like Camilla I think Camilla I like Kyle as well I think great

[01:05:17] great move in episode four that they've done together I think really they played that perfectly and I really like how Camilla in a confessional she was emotional and I love seeing that side to players as well I love seeing the kind of emotional side not public not too public like in the confessional and yeah Camilla's great Kyle's great and so them four are liking each other then they're liking as a four each other that like well I mean we could even see in the episode like how

[01:05:46] bonded they were over that like pastry discussion but yeah in the secret scene she even said I don't know if she was kind of kidding but she was like I like them more than Siva and she was in a great spot on Siva she was in a majority and even then and it seemed like Siva were really gonna you know win the day they were so communal they shared all their advantages she did that as well um it seemed like they were all just really not charity other than charity it's like really close tribe and she's

[01:06:10] now saying that she possibly will prioritize this group of four it's great that's what so that's how good Camilla is she's kind of coming to this tribe played a really good move to kind of get themselves off the bottom to now in a four that like the California Girls Alliance was um they've ended up losing the was it the extra vote that Thomas had they've lost an extra vote well then you know

[01:06:35] he had he had a vote steal oh so they've lost the vote steal and an ally and then Camilla and Kyle have ended up being in now a solid four with these people that were voting against them so credit to that to Camilla's social game yeah credit but credit to all of them credit to Joe and Shaheen who again coming for them last episode and being like kind of arrogant around thinking they had all the power they lost the power and now they've wanted so much for them like again will Joe and Eva's

[01:07:04] clear connection cause issues there like we aren't hearing Joe saying that this is more of a priority to him than like Eva for example but yeah I do really wonder where this will go from this I think because I really also really like this four but I think it's a credit to all of them to come back from a divisive tribal council and just be like they were like we don't want to vote anyone one of us out we like each other so much and just to see them win that challenge because they so badly wanted to move through the merge together like that was another emotional moment in this episode for me there

[01:07:31] was a lot of emotions going on no it's mad but I do think no you're so right not just credit to Miller credit to Saheen and Joe and everyone because it's so easy and Kyle it's so easy to to come back I think and play on emotion the vote didn't go their way hold a grudge and you see so many players do it and it doesn't work in the favour and just kind of right move on forget about it and now they're all best friends so where could this go this is this is good I like I like seeing

[01:08:02] kind of people who can jump over the hurdle it's about adapting in Survivor I think adaptation is so important in the game yeah my one question about this is that they're still pulling off the gambit where Kyle and Camilla aren't so close apparently um and like a Kyle's even like using the fact that like oh I knew people went through my bag to be like you know you chip me off like this was really on you guys you made a mistake here um and then that's I mean so interesting for me because they voted together they couldn't even afford because they were trying to take it to the

[01:08:29] 3-3 in case the art isn't hit they couldn't even afford for like Camilla to throw a vote on Kyle who was going to be immune um so they had to vote together and they're still trying to do that my one question is like could anyone in Siva ever out to them that they've been close this whole time because they are a four who apparently love each other and have this clearly like beyond the game connection and the conversations that they've had but like also they're still lying to them like Camilla and Kyle are still lying to Joe and Shaheen about how close they've been this whole time and like even what their move was last time like Joe and Shaheen still don't really know

[01:08:58] what happened with that I feel like they feel like Kyle just played an idol rather than it was like Kyle and Camilla really like did this vote together and it was like a whole gambit that they're still continuing to pull off I think the way they've played it they've played it smart enough that it won't come back to bite them how they've how they've played their their friendship I think yeah it's not too dramatic and big and they're just downplaying it and downplaying the connection

[01:09:24] and just sticking with that's perfect and I think yeah I do I love that kind of that little move and I think what's your thoughts on going through someone's bag in Survivor I think it's okay I mean I'm also like fine with most things like if it's in the rules I'm okay with it I think players tend to feel badly about it because it's like your one thing you know your one yeah privacy yeah as someone who's never experienced that I'm like do whatever you you know don't hate the play hate

[01:09:50] the game if it's in the rules then you can do it for me yeah yeah I'm not too keen on on the going through the bag but I found it hilarious that they went through the bag still couldn't find it and it was in there and and it still ended up working for them like you know so yeah no Camilla and Kyle I'm liking that duo bag searching hasn't made its way to the UK yet to be fair it was like one season deep and people were like don't even make any moves so I don't think bag searching

[01:10:16] no not you but others bag searching can you imagine can you imagine but when people would have quit yeah probably when I didn't lock the lobster pod when Nathan found my idol that was in the lobster pod I was thinking to myself like because I thought I was going to be going home I thought I need to get that idol off Nathan just throw it into the sea or something get rid of it no one will ever know but yeah like you said people are so loyal in the UK like you know like loyalty based they will not if you're

[01:10:44] ratcheting through someone's bag that is a crime yeah fair enough well I think I'm okay with it because I'm like you know lie steep lie steep chill listen to me lie cheat and steal I'm a full podcast deep did I ever mention that today um yeah well I think what you're saying is correct in that the way Kyle and Camilla have played the separation between them if they were like we hated each other then that would be a very active lie they are it is still a little bit of a white lie they are lying by at least omission and they're definitely downplaying the relationship but

[01:11:12] it might be harder to out that like if a SIVA person is ever feeling desperate and kind of wanting to break up this four if they end up becoming the power four it might be harder to blow that up on like they were actually really close it's like yeah but they also seem to like each other maybe that's what it was maybe it's really hard to quantify relationships you know and I think when it's like you kind of said when it's not I hate this person I love this person when it is just in the middle ground kind of they get on the friends there's nothing to really tell

[01:11:39] so nobody from the SIVA or OG SIVA tribe will be able to really say anything because like you said oh yeah they get on oh yeah they don't seem too close they're not too it's just a nice middle work together don't show that we care too much about each other I like it yeah SIVA have come like done well in the swap because they were swapped to a minority on every tribe and haven't lost a member and if anything have actually picked up possible allies

[01:12:05] where we see that Mary really likes David Eva really likes David Star might kind of come with that now I don't know the relationship today everyone seems to like David Cedric we've seen connect with Mitch we know like even they gave up Bianca who wanted to work with Mitch we see that that obviously Cedric's worked with Chrissy here we see this connection obviously between Khan Camilla Joe and Shaheen um there's a lot of options for SIVA I really am putting my money on someone from SIVA winning this

[01:12:31] game for me yeah true I yeah there's they've got the numbers David he really likes milk we found that out in this episode well but he's always he's talking about milk all the time that's been like one of his major story storylines I love milk too chocolate milk yeah that was one of my questions do you like milk I'm not really like I like it with cereal I like it in a cup of tea not really by itself yeah I mean firstly I love tea I'm British in that way I have a lot of tea I love milk yeah

[01:12:57] you know I take my vitamins at night with milk not water you take them with milk I think my dad drinks milk at night I don't know I'm not really like a milk guy I do like milk and stuff I like fancy milk like in my coffees now oat milk coconut milk if I'm feeling sweet but yeah we'll see what happens yes obviously but I and a lot of sugar again I'm very unhealthy but I started doing it recently well not recently probably it's been months now but I started being like I don't want to take my

[01:13:24] vitamins with water and then I started taking them just a little bit of milk and now I just do it every night to take my vitamins with milk David call me let's talk about milk it's I agree with you chocolate milk strawberry milk regular milk yes water that is something I'm on strawberry milk flavored milk unreal yes do you have this in Australia we have like farms where you go to the farm you get a glass bottle you put the glass bottle into the machine and fresh farm milk comes out

[01:13:48] flavored blueberry muffin strawberry honestly incredible when you come to the UK you have to you have to try fresh beautiful flavored milk unreal I don't like blueberry muffin is there a different option that I could have the blueberry muffin they do cream egg flavor they do Biscoff honestly I don't think it's fresh farm if it's Biscoff flavor no I think I think there is maybe a few additives yeah I think they maybe have to I don't think there are cows doing that I mean

[01:14:17] I'm not like in farming but yeah okay fine I'm really glad I'm coming to the UK oh my god how exciting yeah 100% I mean I'm gonna be missing three weeks of late game 48 god only knows how many prisons dilemmas I will miss in those weeks but when I miss those podcasts everyone can know I'm drinking Biscoff milk straight from the farm exactly right from the cow yeah it'd be good imagine how many milk discussions I'm also gonna miss in those three weeks it's genuinely sad to think

[01:14:46] about um who who are you looking at now like if you had to put money on a winner who's your winner pick at the moment maybe star star maybe if maybe star maybe camilla they're they're the two that I'm liking really like star and the more this episode's going on I like star even more and I just

[01:15:14] think you said it right nobody gets her yeah and I think I've started to get her yeah you've started to get her I've started to get started to get yeah she's a star no I've got honestly maybe star maybe camilla I like camilla I like camilla I want camilla I think so far yeah I've seen yeah my

[01:15:36] the the the move from last week that's the move that you what with with her and kyle that was the movie you liked or from start no I'm just kind of oh camilla whoa sorry okay sorry I like the move with kyle and kind of how yeah it was played to perfection and I just think camilla

[01:16:02] yeah I think we've seen a lot of good stuff from her in the episode a lot of like outer game stuff emotions and yeah I'm not sure I find it hard to like read and edit I think I got it's survivor 47 I said Rachel at the start and I got that one right incredible Rachel when I was on the podcast I think I just seen that one did you she was just so yeah that I said it on the podcast actually we'll have to run the tapes but like yeah I really I seen it in Rachel early on so maybe I'm good at

[01:16:29] predicting but what who do you think well I mean I think my issue for star is while I like star they don't get star so I feel like that's the uphill battle that she's running all the time um I think someone from Siva I think kyle and camilla are both good bets I think david honestly is a pretty good bet he I definitely underestimated him you like you don't love him oh you love him okay and I think there's often so like especially with someone like so big and physical I think he's got a lot about him

[01:16:57] away from that like I don't know he's showing a lot of like vulnerability he's showing a lot of a mix that you don't often see from like a character for somebody that looks like him which is so I know stereotypical but yeah it's nice it's refreshing yeah I think that yeah I mean there's a lot of green flags I think that like Vula have had have had difficulty in my heart and grew further but I don't know that yeah I I don't know that they can can I don't think I don't see say winning

[01:17:24] from a you know social perspective Mary we haven't seen a lot of Mary I don't know that Mary will win from an even an edit perspective I like yeah yeah but they don't have as many maybe connections in the game maybe that's my issue but compared to like a Siva yeah I definitely maybe someone from Siva then but yeah camilla I'm going I'm standing on the hill camilla that's the one yeah because and then like I feel like laggy like again people don't get star Eva and Joe have

[01:17:51] this like now big like public thing and Joe anyway like he's so loyal and it's also he's just like I feel like at a point you want to take out Joey I mean even though he is so loyal it's like he's also such an incredible human you would never want to sit next to him at the end like there's so many of extremes with Joe that you'll want to take care of in time and Shaheen maybe Shaheen of of laggy kind of has some runway but again I think coming in from Siva with the numbers from Siva yeah combining

[01:18:17] the tribe names I think that's better and I think I I think I'm gonna say I'm gonna you're gonna say Camilla I'll say Kyle I definitely see Camilla I definitely see David um I don't see Chrissy from an edit perspective uh she I don't know she has had connections but also always difficult in that demographic to win a jury vote Mitch maybe has had fewer Siva connections and I think that people will want to get rid of his story so I put maybe in in that order like yeah I'd put Kyle Camilla

[01:18:44] I mean it could go either way you've said Camilla I'm going Kyle I just have like a I had a really good feeling about Kyle pre-season and he's like the only one I had a good feeling about who's still in the game because all the other people I drafted I didn't even draft him but they're all gone so I think Kyle would be just yeah yeah I didn't draft Kyle so Kyle because of what could have been then I then Camilla just on gut instinct separating them then I see David who might just not be able to keep up as much strategically but he's been doing great doesn't know the show so well

[01:19:12] but like present company included that might not necessarily matter right so yes yeah maybe David yeah I would never have thought yeah I never actually thought that David could win but the more you see it I like David there's nothing it's just the fact that he's just some like massive like guy who's like you just don't expect that kind of story to win now I don't know I just don't see him but no he's I think he's got a lot of green flags like you said yeah I like David

[01:19:39] yeah the issue with David is you would think that eventually like you just get rid of him because you do end up getting rid of the big guys like that I know that because I just typically you know continuously drafted them but then again maybe he'll win some challenges I don't know if the challenges will really suit his physicality going further into it I don't know that they'll suit Mitch Mitch has done so well in the tribal challenges but now that's not going to help him in the individual challenges but Mitch has a lot of connections on the outside as we've seen with you know like a Cedric as an example I guess maybe just Cedric now because he voted out Bianca

[01:20:06] well he didn't Bianca went home but yeah thinking about it now I think I mean look it's a very open field certainly like Mary could win you know Cedric could could win even though it's been chaotic like he's had power he could navigate it's not coming from the best spot but he could navigate um you know definitely the large people could win too it's very open because it's U.S. Survivor it's not like Australian Survivor it's a lot less open a lot of the time from an Edna perspective at least yeah well no it'll be interesting how many episodes is there so we're on episode five how

[01:20:35] many is left after this 13 there's 13 episodes all together yeah like oh wow so we nearly have got we're flying through it it feels fast yeah yeah and considering I'm missing three weeks to go to Europe we're really flying through it I hope there aren't any finicky rule things while I'm gone I hope that everyone just keeps it cool while I'm on vacation but Survivor never takes a vacation would you still be podcasting when you're over here no I probably wouldn't because I feel like

[01:21:03] I'm gonna be in Greece you know what I mean and yeah you don't want to be cooped up inside in Greece I think Greece you want to be outside Greece will be lovely I think Scotland I actually live quite close to Edinburgh well I say close two hours but like that's probably like I live like five hours from London so oh well let's catch up in Edinburgh instead of London so much easier I've just realized like it would just be like coming to London yeah but Edinburgh I live near like the

[01:21:28] Scottish border so were you going to travel five hours to London for me to get I would have yes 100% of course I would I would have come down it's only for you have to work on these connections oh my god that's that that's why as a social expert you just you casually said you we could get a coffee I didn't realize it was a 10 hour round trip for you no I'd have come down spent like come down with the coffee I just spent the night in London and come home I'm quite easy going with like I am quite

[01:21:56] easy but I don't I don't need but like even in Survivor like I didn't mind if I didn't get seconds on the food I didn't mind if because it's all you know like some people I don't find like traveling a few hours for me I like being busy that's incredibly kind well I'm glad we figured out a different way I mean you can come to Greece if you want um Greece that'll be something that it'll probably actually be faster for me to flight three and a half hours degrees than you to get to London yeah okay well

[01:22:23] I've invited you now so if you want to join our trip um I can send you the luxury escapes that we booked and you can maybe get a room brilliant this would be brilliant I'd be um I'd be like like the son you don't want like just hang around you you oh I'm adopted then I can be I already said you're my son I already said when you won Survivor I said you're so proud of you and you're my son well I'm in I'm in that's brilliant yeah I love Australia I'll have to come to Australia and I'll be using that

[01:22:51] yeah and you won't even complain about the travel because apparently you were going to travel 10 hours for a cup of coffee and we should have at least we were going to get lunch right like we're going to get a dinner at least if you're coming to London dinner at least 10 hours we should have done dinner yeah we'll do dinner we'll do dinner in Edinburgh dinner in Edinburgh actually sounds really good Scottish you're up north north of the UK the best place to be okay great I'm glad everyone was here for us to work this out um this is so public this is this is really good this is good podcasting but I'm just so touched that you were going to come 10 hours anyway

[01:23:23] yeah and also to see me both things absolutely the queen survivor well no I'm not agreeing with you I'm just agreeing that you were so so kind anyway he was going to come five hours to learn anyway people hear people heard what you did crazy let's do the chizzy take a break Jacob's take a wine seat absolutely color two three

[01:23:50] okay I came in you know I came in really doubting my points I really struggled but the more we spoke about it and that you affirmed my hot takes I feel good about my points do you want to give your points first I actually think based on our conversation we might go in a similar direction but I was thinking that I don't want to look like I'm copying you you'll be like you know so I'm gonna go first so you want me to give three points first yeah three points first I'm gonna go with

[01:24:20] star okay I'm gonna go three points for star I think it is maybe a bit of a hot take socially there could be some like social agency going forward which is getting itself from giving the public idol but also having some sort of ownership over the public idol as well I love that um yeah it's a hot take that at first I was really unsure the first note I read about star I was like

[01:24:45] is that the right thing to do would I give up an idol that was technically mine but for the greater good maybe and I like it I think yeah I think it was great episode for star yeah three points for star okay yes who else two points I am going to go with Cedric I think Cedric he had options again

[01:25:12] he kept his cool he's been to tribal council so many times now four times yeah four times in five episodes he's in a good position he's still got say who's what I think is gonna be a good shield for him he's in he was in control of their moment he's had he chose how how much to survive them tribal councils he must have a lot of control so I think two points there it's good for Cedric and yeah I

[01:25:38] think he probably did make the right decision in in the tribal council and one point for me it's gonna go to either just for either maybe even not meaning to either opened up it that opened up star either even though I got an idol because of that which I think is great the only thing I didn't really like is maybe can't be helped is the publicness like how public it is of either and

[01:26:06] Joe's relationship but that was just kind of on emotion in the moment it created a lovely moment so yeah I think either everything she's overcoming I feel like we're going on this journey with either kind of yeah I like it so either one point okay I'm now struggling because now I feel like I don't now I feel like I'm looking at the charts in front of me and I don't I don't want the charts to to feel wrong because okay I'm gonna give three points to Cedric and that means that Cedric

[01:26:36] will be on 11 points leading this pre-merge and will be on the most points because we have say in Camilla next on nine I'm gonna defend it he's survived four tribal councils with total control every time in some of the most complex things we've seen talked about it for hours over the last few weeks and to have even just been in the know through those tribal councils let alone to have had control let alone to have survived it three people have gone at their first tribal council of the season maybe another one will go next week so to survive four tribal councils it'll take some of

[01:27:06] these people through to mid-merge to get to that point let alone that they've been so finicky with so many things is that allies losing votes a couple of different times and he's made it work in a way that it seemed to make sense for him so I'm gonna defend it and I just yeah I need to credit that at least and I also think that this was fine and if he's gonna keep working with like Chrissy and Mitch um with that Siva connection that we think can be really powerful like I actually I think it was fine um so I'm giving him three points I was gonna give two to star but you've given three to star

[01:27:34] that will put star on six now we shouldn't really be gaming the chizzy but should star be on six like given that she's been on the outs for most of the merge like I think her leaving on four from the for the pre-mudge leaving the pre-mudge on four feels much more right and it feels like there are a lot of people who've played pretty well who earned so much fewer points I agree with what you're saying I stand on my star three points for this episode alone but like with with what you're I know

[01:28:02] what you mean in terms of this episode three is okay but I think as a whole probably not loads of points yeah and this was a difficult episode where like you know last week Camilla gets six points for like this all-time move you know Kyle only gets four points for that should star get five points for a kind of iffy move that we liked we did like it but should she get five points for that yeah it is a hot I mean yeah I mean it was in ways kind of risky but again I think we think that

[01:28:30] you know the risk makes sense and if anything maybe having a public idol is is more risky so my question is but should she get five points for that over like Kyle getting four like now I'm looking at just like the exchange rate basically on points I feel like maybe your three was enough to kind of honor her for this episode justify yeah but I do think as well and we've said it a few times in this episode it's people go to tribal council so often although Cedric should he be on the most points

[01:28:57] there's an argument there but then like you were saying he has been to tribal council four times survived every time in some different dynamics and yeah I just think yeah you can you can only play with what you've got to play with you know what I mean so like the tools you've got so it's just it's what we've seen yeah yeah but then it's like star's actually been at the bottom like like I mean

[01:29:25] Bianca was saying star would have gone and they got to tribal council but that was only because she lost her vote here it's like I mean not giving it Chrissy I don't think this was right for Chrissy and I also think Chrissy would have gone home if Bianca had her vote so I have to think about that who else do I have so I was going to give two to star I was going to give one to Eva for how she handled the situation how she connected with star after I really like how all of Joe Shaheen Camilla and Kyle handled that four and um but it's I find it really hard to split then who of the four should get points who do you give

[01:29:53] to yeah but I kind of think maybe I should do that because like someone like Joe Joe I really was thinking about because it's like it's so public but there's also nothing else he can do there so it's not like it's like well it is unfortunate for gameplay I also can't blame him and I do think that the way he's connected with Camilla and Kyle like that's really good maybe I should be giving to Joe and Shaheen like you've taken care of the star Eva side of it and I did want to give a point to Eva but

[01:30:19] maybe I should be giving two to Joe and one to Shaheen who they played last week really badly but they played like the rest of the pre-swap really well and I think with Joe as well he seemed so cautious in the moment to go up to Eva and I think he knew it was kind of more what's morally right and what's good for the game and he was in two but he's an emotional loyalty player so he had to do it I feel bad for Joe

[01:30:47] that he he had to he had to kind of comfort yes I think I'm gonna give two to Joe and here's how I'm going to justify it because the humanity that makes Joe do that is the same humanity that will make people connect with him and two days later be like I like him more than my old allies like it's good from all of them but we really see it so tangibly in Joe and Joe it has a one point through the supreme urge

[01:31:16] and he's gone through a pre-merge with people who like him that much all of them I think he just needs to be credited more for the social positioning that he goes into this merge with and we did see everything that makes Joe who he is that creates that social positioning we saw on full display in this episode so I'm gonna give two to Joe and then one for me should I still give it to Eva should I give it to Star you gave Star three should I give it to Shaheen I'm gonna give it to Eva I think I was gonna give it to her anyway I think that's definitely the best option I think she deserves it this week

[01:31:44] just more than given more so than maybe giving Star four yeah either two yeah we gamed it should we be gaming it no and also I feel bad that David has one point and like Mitch doesn't have a point he connected well with Cedric and like he wasn't in on on the vote maybe this episode but there's some big glaring omissions there's a lot of Vula I think what the issue was like look Thomas had a point Kevin left on two points Justin left on four points like Vula screwed things up on the cheesy

[01:32:12] charts of the pre-merge but I'm just trying to kind of equal the playing field of where we're at so yeah David maybe does deserve more points but because he hasn't been to tribal council yet we're not getting the content to to really like to give but hopefully that'll kind of come come soon we'll get to see some some more David content and see where he's at yeah to be fair though like Joe has only been to tribal council once and it went so badly like he hasn't won a vote but they're still

[01:32:39] giving him points I feel like it sets him up well the kind of person he is that we saw in this episode sets him up well too loyal too big a threat but like also everyone loves him and like that the best parts of that I have to credit so yeah but Cedric leaves us pre-merge on 11 he's winning then say and Camilla on 9 and Carl on 8 so that's kind of like the top of the jivvy charts there Eva's now gone up to three Star went up to four so it's kind of where we're at with it yeah I totally agree with Cedric leaving the pre-merge with the most points 100% actually whatever anyone

[01:33:08] says he's been to tribal council four times he's it's been tough it's been complex and he's come out of it with he's still got to say he you know uh Mary's in the game like we'll see what happens I don't think it will be that bad for him going forward especially if there's going to be a mergatory coming up mergatory yeah he's controlled the votes and the chizzy yeah the chizzy like we I didn't give him any points when Justin went I didn't like that but like yeah the chizzy will reward

[01:33:37] people when they control the votes and he did if I don't think it's disastrous and I don't so he got five points this episode and he's leading the chizzy chart he might have the issue with it it's the kind of thing where if I post it on twitter people will be like why did that happen I'll be like listen to the podcast okay that's the conclusion we came to so anyway yeah do you have any other thoughts on the season Matt in your many notes do you have any anything else you wanted to say

[01:34:01] well I'll just um go through my notes and decide on some final points no honestly I think it's been really good really fast paced really exciting um really looking forward to it I feel like with these seasons of US Survivor when like on the last one when you said about coming on the podcast like now I'm just going to be addicted to you like I was I can't lie I was really obsessed with Australians this season of Australian Survivor and I started watching this and I do think when you

[01:34:30] watch I prefer Australian Survivor so when I was watching this US Survivor I was like oh it's a bit well then now I'm just going to be obsessed like I'll be waiting until next week now because we're talking like now I think start the podcast maybe a bit slow to get into it but now I could just talk all day I'm I'm loving it you know what I mean I'm I'm ready to go no it wasn't slow to start it was great it was like this season it was start it was fast to start it was fast to start I just think I was just taking it all in at the start listening but then I think you need to be a good listener I was

[01:34:59] listening to the to your points and I've learned a lot again I feel like I've I feel good it's a good start to my day good end to your day yes good end to my full podcast day it really was we have our plan we won't have to travel 10 hours to get meet me for dinner not a coffee but for dinner that was great too we worked through the prisoner's dilemma which I think was all I always find really fun I think we've I think this is and I think the chili feels good too I think we really sorted some stuff out today yeah no I really enjoyed it really good to chat about yeah about a crazy season of US Survivor

[01:35:29] the comfy and fast I've seen on Instagram the casting for 51 and 52 now as well like I've seen some like casting yeah yeah some casting producer um it's open for 51 like it's mad they come around so fast I feel like it was literally two minutes ago we're watching 47 yeah they do they pop them out it's true um yeah where can people find you tell other people yeah so Matthew here with x on all

[01:35:56] social channels I'm quite well I'm probably the most active on TikTok at the minute um I do a lot of stuff on there lots of adventures kind of crazy things and just living as somebody in the 20s yeah and just kind of navigating life on there Instagram Matthew here with x as well so yeah I love chatting and I love I love it when people from like the podcast last time I got such a like a lot of nice messages from people who've watched the podcast and maybe hadn't seen the season so yeah

[01:36:25] it opens opens you up to a lot of people which is nice yeah people were excited to have you back so this was so much fun I'm so glad we got to chat everyone can follow me at Shannon Gates in a few weeks from now you'll see a selfie of us in Edinburgh we're together perfect this is good from other sides of the world it's mad love it yeah we know global survivor.com for all of the content as I said many many podcasts happening now I covered um the end of deal or no deal island

[01:36:54] and we talked about that because David Jenner from a strength survivor was on that no spoilers but we were talking about his journey with Jenny and Chappelle exit interviews came out for week six today the recaps will come out next week going through to um you know week seven this week for week six my guest was Caroline next week my guest is Andy from survive 47 on the feedback show Australian survivor on US survivor next week I have Harry Hills what else exits recaps feedback show US

[01:37:23] I think that's it I think that's a long day it was like it was a long day yeah it was fun though it was a fun podcasting day but thank you so so much for this Matthew this was this was great I can't wait till we get to hang out yeah it'd be brilliant I can't wait and we can we can chat to I'm excited and we'll there'll be a lot more episodes out by then as well so we'll be able to really really get into it and see if our predictions are right I think we've had some hot takes and we've we've we've made some good points so we'll see if we're right when we can chat to them

[01:37:51] yeah the big hot take podcast I think definitely going against the grain but that's always fun and math supports things that we've said so that's what's important um well not really actually the math said to betray and Cedric didn't do that but still we also reasoned it out it made sense anyway thank you so much thank you yeah always thank you to our team behind the scenes and I will see you guys bye

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