Survivor Global: Journey Decisions and The Trouble with the Modern End Game | S47 Ep 11 with Nick Iadanza

[00:00:09] Survivor Survivors

[00:00:13] 21 South African 12 ordinary Australians

[00:00:23] Millions of euros

[00:00:24] Millions of euros

[00:00:25] I did

[00:00:29] Survivor International

[00:00:31] Tri-Swe-T

[00:00:33] The Adventure of a Life

[00:00:35] The Adventure of a Life

[00:00:38] Hello everyone and welcome to RHAP's coverage of Survivor 47 for Survivor Global. I'm your host Shannon Gass. We're getting in here early because all the Americans are celebrating Thanksgiving.

[00:00:47] And the only things that I have to give is to have an episode of Survivor to talk about my wonderful guest. He is the original, did I say that right? Noah does. Doing great already. You can be proud.

[00:00:59] He's the reason we are all here. He's an Australian Survivor all-star. My wonderful friend Nick Iadanza. Nick, thank you for being here.

[00:01:06] Shannon, I'm so excited to be here on video no less.

[00:01:09] Yeah.

[00:01:09] There is a 6.2% chance that my kids are going to interrupt this podcast.

[00:01:15] Yes, that would be really bad.

[00:01:17] That's pretty good odds.

[00:01:18] That's pretty good.

[00:01:19] Exactly. Andy wanted to trust those odds. 6.2 is pretty good.

[00:01:23] You should probably buy it.

[00:01:24] How are you doing?

[00:01:25] I'm doing good.

[00:01:26] If it's higher, that's not great.

[00:01:28] I'm doing good. I'm doing good.

[00:01:30] I have just had my appendix out.

[00:01:32] So I've got scars and I've been on so many painkillers.

[00:01:36] I've been good. I've just had surgery.

[00:01:39] No.

[00:01:40] And I apologize because I sent you a contextless photo.

[00:01:44] Yes.

[00:01:45] Of just me in a hospital bed.

[00:01:48] This is what actually, this is, it's such a good lesson for the, for the listeners.

[00:01:52] Like it's not, that's not a good way to deliver news to someone.

[00:01:56] To be like, the message I sent was, Hey, how are you?

[00:01:58] Are you still good for next week?

[00:02:00] I get a picture of you in a hospital bed.

[00:02:02] No context.

[00:02:03] I didn't enjoy that.

[00:02:05] It was, I didn't like that introduction.

[00:02:06] Then shortly after probably like 10 minutes later, you tell me what had happened.

[00:02:12] But like, don't like, I feel like there are some things that need context and a picture of you in a hospital bed requires context.

[00:02:19] Okay.

[00:02:20] What happened was my, my, another friend had just asked the same thing and I'd sent them the photo of me and it was like, surprise.

[00:02:25] Oh, no.

[00:02:26] And they explained, but I'm totally fine.

[00:02:27] Did they enjoy that?

[00:02:28] But when I, I went to go copy and paste that with the, with the context, but I only, I only pasted the photo.

[00:02:34] Was that what happened?

[00:02:36] Oh, I thought you were just being a menace as a site.

[00:02:38] No, no.

[00:02:39] Oh my God.

[00:02:39] You attended to send the context.

[00:02:41] Right.

[00:02:42] It's like one of those like attention seeking people.

[00:02:45] That's like, yeah.

[00:02:45] I don't know if they're like wristband when they're in hospital on social media.

[00:02:49] Okay.

[00:02:50] Okay.

[00:02:50] I know.

[00:02:51] Kind of worry me on purpose.

[00:02:52] And then to be fair, like 10 minutes later, you did follow it up, but I was like, who would do this?

[00:02:55] Like I wasn't enjoying.

[00:02:56] Okay.

[00:02:57] That makes way more sense.

[00:02:58] I was on so many painkillers.

[00:03:01] Like I was, that was like fentanyl and endone and this.

[00:03:05] So yeah.

[00:03:05] Okay.

[00:03:07] Who knows what I was, I should probably actually go back and check through my sent messages

[00:03:10] because there's probably like, probably did it to another 10 or so people.

[00:03:15] Yes.

[00:03:16] Okay.

[00:03:16] Anyway, I'm good though.

[00:03:17] I'm good.

[00:03:17] I'm excited to be here.

[00:03:19] No, you're not good.

[00:03:19] You just had surgery.

[00:03:20] What does a good even mean?

[00:03:22] Like that's not, look, it's fine.

[00:03:24] It was, you know, appendectomy.

[00:03:27] Not great.

[00:03:28] Could have been worse.

[00:03:29] Could have been worse.

[00:03:30] Yes.

[00:03:30] That's our Thanksgiving.

[00:03:31] You're okay.

[00:03:33] I'm fine.

[00:03:33] Your kids might interrupt this podcast.

[00:03:36] Otherwise we're doing great.

[00:03:37] And that would be great.

[00:03:37] That would be a joy.

[00:03:38] Then they're just on the podcast, by the way.

[00:03:40] Paloma wants to come on here and be a star.

[00:03:42] My cats do it all the time.

[00:03:43] She is welcome, but she's going to be in the podcast.

[00:03:45] So we've had a bubble.

[00:03:47] We've done it this season.

[00:03:47] Okay.

[00:03:48] Yes.

[00:03:49] Nick, you were saying that you've been off social media and what an incredible thing

[00:03:52] for you.

[00:03:53] But you said you're kind of like, you kind of like, not unspoiled, that's not the right

[00:03:56] word, but like untainted on the season.

[00:03:59] Like you've just been watching it kind of in your own little bubble.

[00:04:01] Okay.

[00:04:02] So not entirely off social media.

[00:04:03] Like after the election, I was like devastated with the results.

[00:04:06] So I just was like, took myself completely off social media.

[00:04:10] I was just like, I have been so in on social media in the lead up to this thing.

[00:04:15] And I was just like, do you know what?

[00:04:16] This is not good for my mental health.

[00:04:17] Wow.

[00:04:18] You're such an adult.

[00:04:19] I felt the same way, but I just kept doing scrolling.

[00:04:21] So that's the.

[00:04:22] No, no.

[00:04:22] I deleted Instagram and Twitter off my phone.

[00:04:25] Not like I didn't actually delete my accounts, but I deleted them completely.

[00:04:28] And I was just like, I was just wasting so much time.

[00:04:31] And yeah, only recently I was like, do you know what?

[00:04:34] I'm going to try out blue sky.

[00:04:36] And I started a blue sky account, which has been way more interesting and way more fun.

[00:04:41] But it has mean that I feel quite tapped out of the community, the discourse.

[00:04:46] And that's kind of refreshing every once in a while.

[00:04:49] I don't really know what people think about this season.

[00:04:51] I don't know what people think about some people.

[00:04:54] I've some of the noise is kind of cut through.

[00:04:56] Early on, I was on Twitter a lot.

[00:04:58] But I feel pretty unencumbered by other people's kind of viewpoints.

[00:05:05] So.

[00:05:05] Which is great.

[00:05:06] If I say things that seem to be going against conventional logic, please let me know what

[00:05:12] the prevailing winds are saying.

[00:05:13] Well, what are your major thoughts?

[00:05:16] So my major thoughts are that this is a very strange season for me because, and again, other

[00:05:22] people might have said this, you tell me, that I really like everyone the exact same amount.

[00:05:30] Right?

[00:05:30] Except Gabe.

[00:05:31] I really don't like Gabe.

[00:05:32] Sorry, Gabe.

[00:05:33] If you listen.

[00:05:33] But, so I appreciated his enthusiasm and what he brought, but like just not, you know,

[00:05:38] it didn't gel with my vibe, I don't think.

[00:05:41] Right?

[00:05:41] But everyone else I have liked at the exact same amount.

[00:05:44] I don't care for Gabe.

[00:05:45] Literally that quote.

[00:05:48] No one that I'm like, yes, this person is like the best survivor I've ever seen.

[00:05:53] And no one is like, I hate this person.

[00:05:56] Get him off my screen.

[00:05:57] It's literally just been like, I am enjoying all of this.

[00:06:00] And no matter who wins out or who loses, I'm feeling really happy about this season.

[00:06:06] So that's been a very unique thing.

[00:06:08] I genuinely cannot think of another season that that has ever happened with me.

[00:06:13] Has anyone else said something similar?

[00:06:14] I don't feel super dissimilar to that.

[00:06:18] I think I like everyone.

[00:06:19] I feel like if there's a word for this season for me and we'll see how it goes and I want

[00:06:23] to talk about it, but please no.

[00:06:26] I was going to say a different C word.

[00:06:29] Consistency.

[00:06:30] Oh, Shannon.

[00:06:31] Oh, okay.

[00:06:32] I'm not that Australian.

[00:06:35] Yeah.

[00:06:36] I mean, I think the cast is consistent, consistently good.

[00:06:39] But like, if you think about it compared to like 44 where I feel like it was like the

[00:06:43] Teequs were like an all time kind of character.

[00:06:45] And I do think that this is great characters.

[00:06:47] Maybe Andy is the one who kind of stands up, but it's like, yeah, everyone's like consistent.

[00:06:49] I think it's consistently very good.

[00:06:51] But I don't know that you have like the cues or, you know, the even like Marianne, like

[00:06:56] those might, you know, Carolyn, obviously.

[00:06:58] And then like from an episode perspective, I've also said, I feel it's consistent.

[00:07:02] Like this was probably a little bit of a snoozer compared to some of the others, but I do

[00:07:06] feel like.

[00:07:06] I know, right?

[00:07:07] You brought me on for the snoozer.

[00:07:08] What are you doing?

[00:07:09] I did it on purpose.

[00:07:10] I did it on purpose.

[00:07:10] That we could just chat, you know, unencumbered by the actual show.

[00:07:14] I was like, look, you had your appendix out.

[00:07:16] Surely you just want to chill and not like, you know, re-rupture an appendix that's no

[00:07:20] longer in your body by like ranting about something.

[00:07:22] Right?

[00:07:23] That's how medicine works.

[00:07:24] That's not the body.

[00:07:25] I feel like there's no one episode that hugely stands out, like compared to like 46,

[00:07:30] which was, I felt like so bad and so good.

[00:07:33] Um, that's what I've said about the season.

[00:07:34] And I still believe that to be true, but I am a little bit worried about where I could

[00:07:38] go.

[00:07:38] And that sounds like a weird thing to say because I like everyone who's in power and

[00:07:43] I think we're setting up for a winner.

[00:07:44] I'm going to like, regardless.

[00:07:46] Yes.

[00:07:47] I really like the cast, but I just feel like this season is such a great example.

[00:07:52] And this is like my major takeaway from the episode of like, if you are going to shore

[00:07:58] up the end game in such a clear way, which Jeff has done over years, trying to get

[00:08:01] the result that he wants by making it a final three and then making final four fire and

[00:08:05] having no queue around.

[00:08:07] The thing that you want to do is objectively in like, if there's no emotions, if your AI

[00:08:13] optimized, which Andy ironically says they're not, but they kind of are in the season that

[00:08:17] the smart savvy players who know, okay, we are the ones who are.

[00:08:21] Did you say sweat and savvy?

[00:08:22] Oh no, I please, please jump scare.

[00:08:24] Yeah.

[00:08:25] The savvy players, if they can get a majority, especially if one of them has an idol, the

[00:08:31] top of this group has an idol to go to five should go in a group of four or a group of

[00:08:35] five to get the majority to take out the people that will beat them at the end.

[00:08:38] And that's what this five are doing.

[00:08:40] And I feel like this type of modern, not even new era, but like modern end game allows for

[00:08:46] that in a way that's really, really clear.

[00:08:49] People are still using that really well, but it's a forced path for me where like, if there's

[00:08:53] a final two, this five can't come together to do the like mutually incentivized thing.

[00:08:58] As I said, it's all to our benefit.

[00:09:00] They can't do that because it's like, okay, we can't just go to the end with Sue and Andy,

[00:09:03] like we'll get cut off three, four, five.

[00:09:05] Now it's like, we can go to the final five and then like battle it out on a final immunity

[00:09:09] challenge into fire into a final three.

[00:09:11] And like, why would they not all do that?

[00:09:13] It's so clear.

[00:09:14] And to me, it just shows how restricted the modern end game is.

[00:09:16] And if the next two rounds are like Jen and Sam and some combination, and it might not be,

[00:09:22] but it should be for all five, then it will show how that incentive leads to these forced

[00:09:27] outcomes because the format is homogenous compared to what it can be.

[00:09:31] I think.

[00:09:32] Isn't this the, is that always like all the new eras though, haven't led to this scenario.

[00:09:37] So like, you can't say that.

[00:09:39] Because that is true.

[00:09:41] Yes.

[00:09:41] You just because this one time.

[00:09:45] I think.

[00:09:46] Am I defending the new era?

[00:09:48] No, it's a very fair point.

[00:09:50] Um, it, it hasn't happened to this extreme.

[00:09:53] I think it's always the optimal strategy.

[00:09:54] The amazing thing about survivors, people do not do what is optimal because emotions

[00:10:00] and alliances and all of these other things.

[00:10:01] But yes, if you can always work out who will beat you at the end, you should always take

[00:10:07] out the people who will beat you at the end.

[00:10:08] And if you can go into basically not, not a final two anymore, not a final three, but

[00:10:11] pretty much a final four is how you, it's the last votes at the final five.

[00:10:14] You should always have a final four group who start taking out the people who were bigger

[00:10:18] threats at the final seven.

[00:10:19] Now this season is unique for two reasons that I think blow that out to its extreme to

[00:10:23] show how homogenous it can be like at its most extreme.

[00:10:27] The first being that Rachel has an idol.

[00:10:30] So I would think the one who maybe shouldn't do this or shouldn't, who should be less incentivized

[00:10:34] to do it.

[00:10:34] If the person on top of that group who will be taken out fifth, but Rachel doesn't have to

[00:10:38] think about that as much because she's more protected.

[00:10:40] She could also win some final puzzle challenges.

[00:10:42] So she's like uniquely placed to make this a five, meaning they could have shorted up at

[00:10:45] nine.

[00:10:45] It even gives an additional person.

[00:10:47] The other thing is that within all the emotion and the things that make survivor murky and

[00:10:51] hard and not optimized, like this group is so optimized.

[00:10:54] Like these are super fans who know what to do.

[00:10:57] And yeah, you're a modern end game format with the smart savvy players.

[00:11:01] And especially here where I said like the teenies, the Andy's the Rachel, these are like

[00:11:05] R.J.P. fans that Caroline's supposed to be five.

[00:11:09] They're like, you know, I've known what to do and are like uniquely placed to do it.

[00:11:11] And we can talk about it from all of their perspectives.

[00:11:13] But I think that that is a strategy every time.

[00:11:15] It's just that people aren't going to do what's optimal.

[00:11:17] This is an optimal group.

[00:11:19] We're going to lean into a format that allows it at its most.

[00:11:22] And I think shows the pitfalls of that by being as extreme as it is, but it is definitely

[00:11:27] like the extreme version of that.

[00:11:28] But I think shows a general tendency that could always be incredibly concerning from a structure.

[00:11:33] It's not.

[00:11:34] But is it also like extremely concerning?

[00:11:37] Like, it's only happened like you wouldn't say that soul was like this huge threat.

[00:11:41] It was just having the last two votes.

[00:11:44] But like, again, and I don't know if they're going to do it, but like, I think they should

[00:11:47] take out Jen and Sam next.

[00:11:49] Yes.

[00:11:49] Okay.

[00:11:50] So if it continues.

[00:11:51] Yeah, exactly.

[00:11:52] If it continues.

[00:11:53] Yeah.

[00:11:53] In many ways, that's old school survivor though, right?

[00:11:56] You get your group, you stick together, you don't move.

[00:11:58] Like, you know, that's, I know it's so funny.

[00:12:00] They've got shadows of that.

[00:12:02] Isn't that what people want?

[00:12:03] Yeah.

[00:12:03] Yeah.

[00:12:04] They tried so hard to prevent the begonging that they've gone so far around that all

[00:12:07] they've done is incentivize a begonging that's allowed because this, and this is the thing

[00:12:11] is that we get, you know, a lot, when I tweeted about this, I got some responses

[00:12:14] that were like, change it up.

[00:12:16] Cause then they won't know what they can do.

[00:12:18] You have a final two, sometimes final three.

[00:12:20] This is what Australian survivor does.

[00:12:21] And I don't agree with it because I think those are often opposite strategies where you just

[00:12:25] bet on what you think it is.

[00:12:26] Cause you can't do both.

[00:12:28] So you're like, Hey, I'm going to hope it's a final two.

[00:12:29] I'm going to bet on it.

[00:12:30] And sometimes the bed is wrong.

[00:12:31] And I don't think that that's why someone should lose basically just on luck of what

[00:12:35] they bet on.

[00:12:35] I think that you, people should be allowed to play optimally and not come down to luck

[00:12:40] and circumstance, but make the optimal path high.

[00:12:42] A final two is such a hard path.

[00:12:45] Like at one point, like getting through to just two seats at the end, no fire to save you

[00:12:49] no, you know, pure rounds, like people with idols.

[00:12:53] It's tricky.

[00:12:53] Like it's, it's very, very fragile and it's very dynamic of how everyone can kind of place

[00:12:57] that.

[00:12:57] And that's why things like goat hunting, so Reeve goat hunting tragedy that we heard about

[00:13:01] in this episode become relevant because you can't just let Sue and Andy get to the final

[00:13:04] two seats.

[00:13:05] So you have to take a shot at some point, but then how do they project against that?

[00:13:08] And then we get into this kind of dynamic gameplay.

[00:13:09] I think that the end game of the modern game has always been just more homogenous.

[00:13:14] And we're seeing that now, and there are, there are still hurdles, but the hurdles are

[00:13:18] in these forced paths.

[00:13:19] Now the hurdles are the threats have fewer rounds to win out.

[00:13:22] Can they find trinkets?

[00:13:24] Can they protect themselves to get to the end?

[00:13:25] And this is the duality between shoring it up of the quote unquote underdogs, which we'll

[00:13:29] talk about or them being beaten by no, actually now Sam has one out to the end and one, and

[00:13:35] that's the kind of struggle, but it's still like, again, quite a stagnant struggle versus

[00:13:39] in a final two.

[00:13:40] It will be like, well, maybe we want to keep, you know, Tony kept Spencer around to the final

[00:13:44] four because you know, and there was still time to take it.

[00:13:46] So it's about keeping those threats and it's, I think more dynamic.

[00:13:49] So that's where I see the struggle now.

[00:13:51] That's where I see the pathway that it's on, but I love that you will check me on like,

[00:13:55] but is it so concerning that one episode was pretty downline?

[00:13:58] Yeah.

[00:13:58] But I do think it does speak to things I've complained about for a long time.

[00:14:01] So I just-

[00:14:02] It definitely does.

[00:14:02] It definitely does.

[00:14:03] And I get what you're saying.

[00:14:05] I wonder if the, you know, this is something that I've been thinking about a lot recently

[00:14:11] is particularly with Australian Survivor, that there should be, I've changed my tune.

[00:14:18] If you listened to the podcasts, a lot of podcasts I did from back in the day, excuse me, I would

[00:14:23] say, you know, people who don't know the show got, you know, what are they doing here?

[00:14:27] Maybe as a player, it's really annoying, but like, I think as a fan, those people are needed.

[00:14:31] And I think had a few more of those been sprinkled in, this conversation wouldn't even be happening.

[00:14:36] Because everyone is so hyper aware and so clever and such a super fan.

[00:14:42] I think that is the factor beyond the other parts of it because the new era has the same

[00:14:49] setup that it's had for the last seven seasons.

[00:14:51] And this hasn't occurred.

[00:14:54] So I do think that the casting, like there should be a more like, like, ironically, you know,

[00:15:01] you're talking about how it goes around in a circle and it's come back to the beginning.

[00:15:03] I think with casting, it's gone in attempts to be so diverse.

[00:15:08] It's actually become so homogenous in terms of game play.

[00:15:13] Yeah.

[00:15:13] Yeah.

[00:15:14] Yeah.

[00:15:14] So I think, and I know that's well-trodden territory, but like that might be the answer to this.

[00:15:19] And the thing is as well, but you can complain about any side of it.

[00:15:21] And I do.

[00:15:21] And that's podcasting.

[00:15:23] Podcasting.

[00:15:23] You can complain about any side.

[00:15:24] Welcome to podcasting everyone.

[00:15:26] If you have enough recruits and people who aren't playing in their self interest, that's

[00:15:29] how you get like David winning in all stars, because someone can take all the sheep

[00:15:32] and be like the shepherd and everyone, not the Philip shepherd, but like the shepherd

[00:15:36] who will win and take ironically Rob as an example.

[00:15:39] Boston Rob took the shepherd to be the shepherd and makes sense.

[00:15:43] And you know, be, yes.

[00:15:45] Thank you.

[00:15:46] Yeah.

[00:15:46] To like, you know, lead these people who don't know as much, but then you will get the Keith

[00:15:50] nails who say stick to the plan and screw things up.

[00:15:52] And like, for me, casting can go either way on that.

[00:15:55] I think like versatility in casting, you know, is always a good thing across the board.

[00:16:00] I say that as I love this cast, you know?

[00:16:02] So for me, it's more like give them a game that give optimal players the chance to play

[00:16:07] optimally, but make it just so hard to play optimally.

[00:16:10] And like pure survivor is so incredibly hard.

[00:16:11] We've not solved it yet.

[00:16:12] Whereas like, I feel like this structure is solved.

[00:16:14] Will people always do it?

[00:16:15] No, but like they can.

[00:16:16] And that's the solution.

[00:16:18] Like it's very clear.

[00:16:19] So it's not, it's not super concerning, but it is there.

[00:16:22] It's there to slightly worry about.

[00:16:25] Can we talk about the cast?

[00:16:26] Cause there are, I know I said, there's no one that I'm like, Oh my God, you're the best.

[00:16:29] But like, I really love these people.

[00:16:31] Like I love Andy.

[00:16:33] Andy.

[00:16:33] I want it.

[00:16:34] Does Andy listen to this podcast?

[00:16:35] Cause if he does, like, I want, I don't know.

[00:16:37] He definitely used to.

[00:16:39] Is it listening?

[00:16:40] I want Andy to know.

[00:16:41] I want Andy to know that I love Andy.

[00:16:43] I just like love what he brings.

[00:16:45] I love the way he talks.

[00:16:47] I love the way he flips his hair, everything about him.

[00:16:49] I'm just like, I am so in on, on Andy as like a person and as a human.

[00:16:55] And his story is just so fantastic.

[00:16:58] I do feel like we're getting so much of the show through his point of view.

[00:17:01] Yeah.

[00:17:02] Like, is that like, because he's going to get that growth story or is it because he's the

[00:17:07] winner?

[00:17:08] I mean, I'm super low on Andy's win chances this week compared to where I was last week.

[00:17:12] Last week I put him third and I have him falling way out.

[00:17:14] Um, because Genevieve confirmed that she said general consensus and it is her.

[00:17:18] But I wanted to get into that.

[00:17:20] What does that?

[00:17:20] I want to know more about that.

[00:17:22] I have been really concerned personally about where Andy sits because he's always the one

[00:17:28] telling us how much he's doing and what we've heard from other people has been negative,

[00:17:31] like Sierra, who's a juror as an example.

[00:17:33] Yes.

[00:17:34] Um, and Genevieve, I think, you know, saying that there's general consensus, which I can't

[00:17:38] believe that Sue and Andy are the two goats.

[00:17:41] Really?

[00:17:42] I did not enjoy that for Andy.

[00:17:44] I was really concerned about that.

[00:17:46] So if that's the case, I think that the edit is just because Andy's journey is like genuinely

[00:17:49] so compelling.

[00:17:50] So they're giving us that he's a great character, but yeah, I mean, and this is the thing about

[00:17:54] things being optimized because now it becomes, if you're Sue and Andy, you're so much the

[00:17:58] goat.

[00:17:58] You cannot let it just be run down to the end because you will lose.

[00:18:01] So if it's, if it's optimized for Caroline and teeny to try and get through a five and

[00:18:05] a four to win against them or Rachel to get through five with more protection to win.

[00:18:09] That's great.

[00:18:10] For Andy and Sue, they should do more.

[00:18:12] So maybe there's a little bit of a lack of optimization there because, and you do something

[00:18:16] to cut it up to drastically change that perception, but doesn't seem to know to do that because

[00:18:22] he seems to be like, I'm the spider in the web.

[00:18:24] And he thinks he's going to have a really good story to tell.

[00:18:27] But even with that, like for Andy, maybe is it sitting next to like a teeny and a Sue

[00:18:31] who have kind of not as much to say as well.

[00:18:33] And then making fire and differentiating kind of within that group.

[00:18:36] I also think that's somewhat of a viable path.

[00:18:38] But yes, I mean, if we're saying that Sue and Andy are definitely going to lose at the

[00:18:41] end and they should do something now.

[00:18:43] So that's where a little bit of like the lack of optimization, I think comes in for the

[00:18:46] screw.

[00:18:47] But when Andy like isn't his goat status confirmed, not confirmed, but like added to by the fact

[00:18:54] that like the plan he tries to get off the ground tonight, this week was, wasn't going

[00:19:00] to work like that.

[00:19:01] This was a bit of a non-start.

[00:19:02] Yeah, but Rachel didn't work last time.

[00:19:04] And I think Rachel for me is like, I mean, she's in the best winner position right now.

[00:19:08] Like I think the same, like last week I said the same thing, which is like when they

[00:19:12] want these threats to go, Gabe or Genevieve, Kyle or Genevieve, does it really matter?

[00:19:18] Like, and we'll talk about it because it's the main kind of question of the strategic

[00:19:20] episode.

[00:19:20] But like for me, I don't begrudge Andy for putting it forward.

[00:19:23] I see the pros and the cons.

[00:19:25] I do lean to Kyle going, but I'm also not like super mad at it.

[00:19:28] And I'm not super mad that he didn't get his way because I think it works for them to take

[00:19:31] out Kyle.

[00:19:32] I think it was all a valid discussion.

[00:19:33] Like, is it so bad?

[00:19:34] It's not like a drastically different plan to a different one.

[00:19:37] It's two names that they said we all want to go in some order.

[00:19:39] Like they kind of just like, yeah, yeah.

[00:19:41] He off at this point.

[00:19:42] What did you think, Kyle or Genevieve?

[00:19:45] Okay.

[00:19:45] So I, I had a really clear thought about what should happen from Sue and Caroline's idea

[00:19:54] from point of view.

[00:19:55] Um, and tell me if this is more just like a kind of one of those crazy fan fiction things,

[00:20:01] but they should have, cause Sue has an idol, right?

[00:20:06] If they want to make sure that they are solidifying back together, I feel like they needed some

[00:20:12] sort of plan that will kind of like reinforce that, that they are together more than just

[00:20:16] their word.

[00:20:17] And I really felt like they could have done something super duper cool here where they could have

[00:20:21] just said, yeah, okay, well, let's go along with your plan, Andy, because teeny at that

[00:20:25] point would have gone, okay, well, it's four against one.

[00:20:27] All right.

[00:20:28] I'll go along with it.

[00:20:29] I don't like it, but I'll go along with it or said to teeny yet.

[00:20:32] We are going to say we're going to go along with it, but we're actually going to vote

[00:20:37] out.

[00:20:38] Um, we're going to play our idol and we're going to save Genevieve and bring her in because

[00:20:43] I just feel like, I know it's crazy, but I just feel like this five is not, if you're

[00:20:50] so obviously a two in that five, because I believe that it's Rachel and Andy and Caroline

[00:20:56] and Sue, and then teeny's in the middle.

[00:20:58] I feel like if I'm one of those twos, I'm worried that it's like a 50, 50 chance when

[00:21:03] it comes down to it, that teeny is going to go with the other one and not me.

[00:21:07] Right?

[00:21:07] So I think you need to make the move now while you've got people going and you can still

[00:21:11] have your cake and eat it too.

[00:21:12] If you're Sue, what you want is Kyle out.

[00:21:14] You get Kyle out.

[00:21:16] You make it clear that everyone else is coming for Genevieve.

[00:21:18] Genevieve is so on the bottom.

[00:21:19] You save Genevieve, even with your idol or, you know, just actually flipping the vote and

[00:21:24] you actually save her.

[00:21:25] And you say, Genevieve, you are now with us 100% and we're going to take you to the end.

[00:21:30] You mitigate her power as a power player.

[00:21:34] She was someone who was saved by your mercy.

[00:21:37] You've made this epic move.

[00:21:38] Sue's pulled out an idol.

[00:21:40] Her like threat level is now rising.

[00:21:42] It won't rise high so high that she sticks her head all the way up, but it will definitely

[00:21:46] take her out of goat contention.

[00:21:48] And now she's got this new group with Teenie, Genevieve, Caroline, Sue.

[00:21:55] And now the, you know, that a seven there, the, the, the, the, the, a group of four.

[00:21:59] Yes.

[00:21:59] Teenie and Genevieve don't get along that well, but I think it really, really pushes Rachel

[00:22:05] and, um, uh, what's the name?

[00:22:07] Andi further, further down the pecking order and gets you out of a potentially dangerous

[00:22:11] situation of five.

[00:22:13] I don't think that five, this is the thing is, this is why I think that the format is easy

[00:22:17] because five isn't as worrying as I think you're making it out to be like, I think that

[00:22:22] if I'm Rachel, I'm feeling worried because she's so clearly the biggest threat of that

[00:22:26] five, but she has an idol.

[00:22:27] Um, so maybe like they should be a little bit concerned that Rachel is so keen to go

[00:22:31] to the five, but even then she wouldn't be, I think turning on it early.

[00:22:34] So they have no real reason to suspect her.

[00:22:37] Um, and if anything gets so close, if I'm Caroline, I now think this is a great pathway

[00:22:41] for Caroline just to keep staying on this course.

[00:22:43] Now yet Sue does need to do something.

[00:22:44] And Sue at this point is drawing dead.

[00:22:46] So Sue should be drastic with the idol.

[00:22:47] Like Sue, I think saving Genevieve would be a lot.

[00:22:50] And I also think there's nothing to say.

[00:22:51] Like, I think it was pretty clear cut.

[00:22:53] Kyle, Kyle doesn't even vote for Genevieve.

[00:22:55] And when he votes for Tini in the, in the last words, you can see him shrug.

[00:22:58] So that was like a funny part of that.

[00:23:01] Yeah.

[00:23:01] Well, I think because he knows like it was always going to be car, but in a world where

[00:23:04] like you can save Genevieve and bring her in, um, Sue should do what I shoot.

[00:23:07] Sue should do fireworks from now to the end.

[00:23:09] But for Caroline, you're thinking like Rachel's a great shield at five.

[00:23:12] I've got shields all the way to four.

[00:23:14] I basically need to win fire to sit next to Sue and even like a Tini.

[00:23:18] And that's like a winning game for Caroline.

[00:23:19] So it's not what it would have been.

[00:23:21] Um, and again, like without fire, even as an example, especially going down to a final

[00:23:24] two where there are pairs and you're in the middle and who chooses what it's more just

[00:23:28] like, who's going to be the biggest threat at five.

[00:23:30] So for them, they have a shield.

[00:23:31] It's Rachel and Rachel.

[00:23:32] She knows she's protected.

[00:23:33] So they're all just like communally incentivized here without having to tear it up.

[00:23:36] I also don't think that it's two pairs of two with Tini in the middle.

[00:23:40] I think Tini, Andy and Rachel have said there are three.

[00:23:43] And then obviously Sue and Caroline are two.

[00:23:45] If anything, Rachel now has, I think kind of put herself more in the middle, but it

[00:23:50] will be the biggest threat.

[00:23:51] So it won't really matter as much.

[00:23:53] I get that.

[00:23:54] I just feel like if I had just learned that she now has a vote blocker and it's just

[00:23:57] like, Oh God, now like she's coming into this fight.

[00:24:00] I know they don't know about her idol, but like, I don't know.

[00:24:02] I would just be, I would just be getting a little big move.

[00:24:06] I'd see probably, but like, I would feel I'd be getting a little skittish and, and I would

[00:24:11] want Genevieve on my side.

[00:24:12] Like this is the thing, right?

[00:24:14] If like Genevieve being saved, yes, her threat level will reduce, but like, she still

[00:24:20] is like a huge threat.

[00:24:21] People will still want to get rid of her tomorrow.

[00:24:24] If everything else goes tits up and you just need to kind of cut bait on her.

[00:24:28] All right, fine.

[00:24:29] We get rid of Genevieve as well.

[00:24:30] So it's kind of like, I don't feel like it's that big of a deal to bring her in because

[00:24:35] she's still there.

[00:24:36] And this is why I thought it was a bad move to get rid of Kyle.

[00:24:39] I was very much more on the thought of getting rid of Genevieve.

[00:24:44] Because she's such a big, because she's can do more than Kyle.

[00:24:47] Yeah, exactly.

[00:24:48] She can do more than Kyle.

[00:24:49] Like the, the yes, the immunity challenge, the challenges are a big deal, but like he's not

[00:24:54] unbeatable as I have seen you point out on Instagram, on Twitter.

[00:24:58] Yeah.

[00:24:59] Blue sky or wherever they are.

[00:25:01] Like he's not completely unbeatable.

[00:25:04] His threat is dependent on a silly carnival game.

[00:25:08] Genevieve's threat is just Genevieve's threat.

[00:25:10] Like it doesn't, it's not mitigated by anything beyond like her ability, why she's so scary

[00:25:16] is there 24 seven and it's not going to change.

[00:25:20] Yes.

[00:25:21] You can be less scared of it, but like her ability doesn't change.

[00:25:24] If he doesn't put a ball in a hole, his threat disappears completely that, that night.

[00:25:30] So like, I wouldn't, I would not have gone for Kyle there.

[00:25:33] I would have gone for Genevieve.

[00:25:34] And I think that Andy was correct in that, in that situation.

[00:25:39] I disagree.

[00:25:40] And here's why, because every, every week they put balls in holes or whatever, you know,

[00:25:45] like every week Kyle has that opportunity.

[00:25:47] Whereas Genevieve's superpower, which is people has been quelled at this point.

[00:25:51] I mean, she already is like, I don't want to, you know, get close to people.

[00:25:54] I'm like, Genevieve, that is your superpower.

[00:25:55] Like you have to, that is the thing you have to do.

[00:25:57] She's still smart enough to be able to do it.

[00:25:59] Whether people want her to do it or not.

[00:26:01] Like there's nothing that can stop.

[00:26:03] Like, like that is every day at camp.

[00:26:06] She just needs to have the right conversation.

[00:26:08] There aren't balls at camp with little holes.

[00:26:10] And if you just put it in your set, well, there actually are.

[00:26:12] There actually are.

[00:26:13] You'll definitely go into the forest and find a ball in a hole.

[00:26:15] That's like you won the secret super prize.

[00:26:18] That is actually more like the odds of, of Kyle finding something or doing something.

[00:26:22] And we'll talk about the journey that can protect him.

[00:26:25] Let alone immunity challenges.

[00:26:26] I think it's higher than Genevieve's power.

[00:26:27] Not just because she doesn't want to use her secret powers of people,

[00:26:30] but because they're not letting her.

[00:26:32] Genevieve's power has been so badly reduced because no one will work with her.

[00:26:36] And that people power is how you get Genevived, but no one is falling for it anymore.

[00:26:42] Like she's like the mask is off.

[00:26:43] Yeah.

[00:26:44] So I think the Genevieve now, like, what is she going to do?

[00:26:46] She needs people.

[00:26:47] And that's not where her game is currently at because her threat level has been raised

[00:26:50] and no one's wanting to work with her.

[00:26:51] So I would take out Kyle.

[00:26:53] And I know that, you know, the math for that Andy put out

[00:26:56] and Christian had an amazing tweet thread about this, explaining it.

[00:27:00] Oh, what was it?

[00:27:01] This is beyond me.

[00:27:02] But basically, because Andy-

[00:27:03] Give it to me in like a-

[00:27:04] It's going to have to be very-

[00:27:06] A five year old.

[00:27:07] Yeah.

[00:27:08] I mean, I need it as a five year old.

[00:27:09] Like it was a lot.

[00:27:12] Like how-

[00:27:13] Andy is so much the gif of like the working out,

[00:27:16] like the lady that looks like Julia Roberts, but isn't.

[00:27:18] And she was like working it out.

[00:27:20] Every week that's Andy.

[00:27:22] So yes.

[00:27:23] What is that gif from by the way?

[00:27:24] Who is that?

[00:27:24] It's not Julia Roberts.

[00:27:26] No, it's not.

[00:27:27] Isn't that crazy that it's not, it looks exactly like her.

[00:27:30] It's like, it's like a foreign film or something.

[00:27:32] Okay.

[00:27:33] I've looked into this before.

[00:27:35] Cause that's when I worked at a Wilson Julia Roberts.

[00:27:37] Anyway, that's where I'm at on the working out gif.

[00:27:39] That's I'm not on the map.

[00:27:40] So basically what, what Andy said.

[00:27:42] Andy says-

[00:27:43] Other people are actually working out the maps and you're like,

[00:27:46] is Julia Roberts?

[00:27:47] Is Julia Roberts?

[00:27:48] It's not Julia Roberts.

[00:27:49] Um, so Andy says that Kyle's win record is overrated.

[00:27:54] And obviously I agree.

[00:27:55] It's a very big part of who I am at this point to agree that

[00:27:59] Kyle's winning streak has asterisks, but.

[00:28:02] Even I who don't, I have enough social media.

[00:28:07] You're like something permeated and it's just me being like,

[00:28:10] he didn't actually win four.

[00:28:11] If you look at it, actually Genevieve beat him in a,

[00:28:13] Genevieve is the one that between Genevieve and Kyle and Genevieve and

[00:28:17] teeny beat the one challenge.

[00:28:19] Uh, I'm so glad that's permeated.

[00:28:21] So you're on the right side of social media.

[00:28:22] You're just getting what you need.

[00:28:23] That's that's that's it.

[00:28:25] And everyone's been talking about it.

[00:28:26] It hasn't just been me.

[00:28:27] Um, so I actually feel bad because this is like the,

[00:28:30] the height of, of what you could criticize me the most for.

[00:28:33] Like talk about being an armchair quarterback from my cash being

[00:28:36] like, he didn't even win.

[00:28:37] And I've got like my hand in a bag of Maltesers.

[00:28:39] It's like,

[00:28:39] really at its height.

[00:28:41] Um,

[00:28:41] but hold on a second before you explain it.

[00:28:43] If you're saying that Genevieve is actually the threat,

[00:28:45] then is it my point?

[00:28:47] Is it my point?

[00:28:49] Okay.

[00:28:49] Okay.

[00:28:50] No, Kyle is still a huge immunity threat to be fair.

[00:28:52] Like Kyle will always do very well in an immunity.

[00:28:55] Even the ones he loses.

[00:28:55] He does very well in and the ones he won.

[00:28:58] He also maybe didn't win, but still did very well.

[00:29:00] And that's the 20.

[00:29:02] He gave it a buck 20.

[00:29:04] Yeah.

[00:29:06] Um,

[00:29:07] anyway,

[00:29:07] Hey Kyle.

[00:29:08] I don't,

[00:29:08] I don't,

[00:29:09] I just think that I don't hate Kyle at all.

[00:29:11] Um,

[00:29:12] at all.

[00:29:13] I just think like the buck,

[00:29:14] I don't know.

[00:29:14] Just like,

[00:29:15] yeah,

[00:29:16] I think it's fine.

[00:29:17] He's a fan.

[00:29:18] He's fine.

[00:29:18] I think that like the idea of like,

[00:29:22] you can only do it for your family is a bad general,

[00:29:26] can be weaponized by worse people than Kyle.

[00:29:29] You know,

[00:29:30] like it doesn't matter unless you're doing it for your family kind of thing.

[00:29:33] I don't really love them.

[00:29:35] I do do everything for my cats.

[00:29:38] Anyway,

[00:29:38] this isn't a belief I usually hold.

[00:29:40] Why is this where I'm at?

[00:29:41] I was talking about math.

[00:29:42] I was talking about Julia Roberts.

[00:29:43] Where was I?

[00:29:43] Back to Christian.

[00:29:44] Back to Christian.

[00:29:45] What was he actually saying?

[00:29:46] It's not Julia Roberts in the gift.

[00:29:48] Wait.

[00:29:50] Okay.

[00:29:51] What was he saying?

[00:29:52] I don't hate Kyle.

[00:29:54] I don't hate Kyle at all.

[00:29:56] Um,

[00:29:56] okay.

[00:29:56] I'm glad Genevieve stayed.

[00:29:58] Okay.

[00:29:59] Matt,

[00:30:00] are you listening to me?

[00:30:01] Yeah.

[00:30:02] I'm trying to find the gift.

[00:30:03] Oh, wow.

[00:30:04] She does.

[00:30:04] I guess she does kind of look like Julia Roberts,

[00:30:08] but it's not Julia Roberts.

[00:30:11] It looks exactly like her.

[00:30:13] The film that it was taken from is the,

[00:30:15] was the little math symbols there originally,

[00:30:18] or were they just randomly added?

[00:30:19] I think they added that in.

[00:30:22] Imagine all of a sudden,

[00:30:23] just out of nowhere,

[00:30:24] becoming the math gift person.

[00:30:27] Yeah.

[00:30:28] Have you ever seen that thing where it's like they interview people who became

[00:30:30] memes?

[00:30:31] Oh, no, but do you know who I really want?

[00:30:33] It was like a Buzzfeed segment thing.

[00:30:34] I love that.

[00:30:36] Scram!

[00:30:36] Do you know that one?

[00:30:38] No.

[00:30:40] Scram!

[00:30:41] She doesn't want to talk to you.

[00:30:43] Do you know that one?

[00:30:44] No.

[00:30:45] What?

[00:30:51] What is it?

[00:30:52] The scram!

[00:30:53] Okay.

[00:30:54] I hope people are screaming into their headphones or their cars or whatever now

[00:30:58] they know this,

[00:30:59] the scram lady.

[00:31:02] Scram!

[00:31:03] She doesn't want to talk to you.

[00:31:07] This is quality content.

[00:31:08] This one,

[00:31:09] the original scram.

[00:31:12] I've never seen them before in my lifetime, Nick.

[00:31:14] I don't want to tell you.

[00:31:15] Oh my God.

[00:31:16] I've never seen them before.

[00:31:17] And I'm incredibly online.

[00:31:19] Okay.

[00:31:20] Nothing gets past me.

[00:31:22] The day that I woke up this week,

[00:31:24] where holding space for defying gravity was my entire feed.

[00:31:27] I have to work backwards.

[00:31:29] I love her.

[00:31:37] I love her.

[00:31:38] Okay.

[00:31:38] Sorry.

[00:31:38] Sorry.

[00:31:38] Yeah.

[00:31:39] I have no idea.

[00:31:40] Anyway,

[00:31:43] we've gone so far from where we came.

[00:31:46] Okay.

[00:31:47] I mean, beyond.

[00:31:49] Beyond.

[00:31:49] What was Christian saying about the odds?

[00:31:55] You made this so hard for me.

[00:31:57] Like it's already above my pay grade and I have had to like defend how I feel about Kyle.

[00:32:02] I've gone to memes.

[00:32:03] I didn't know existed.

[00:32:05] We haven't spoken about.

[00:32:06] Please tell me that you love the scram.

[00:32:08] That you love the scram woman.

[00:32:09] Please hit me up if you love the scram woman.

[00:32:12] Okay.

[00:32:12] Go.

[00:32:12] Yes.

[00:32:14] I'm blaming you for this right now.

[00:32:16] That's fine.

[00:32:17] I'll take it.

[00:32:17] Okay, great.

[00:32:18] Okay.

[00:32:19] Math.

[00:32:20] So, okay.

[00:32:20] So basically Andy is like giving it a one and two shot that Kyle will win,

[00:32:24] which is basically true because many of the challenges he wants,

[00:32:27] he didn't win.

[00:32:28] So, and that is like how it's worked out.

[00:32:31] Basically it's a coin flip.

[00:32:32] So for him to win, um, or four is one in 16.

[00:32:37] So that's 6.25%.

[00:32:39] If you think that he should have a more than 50% chance of winning all four challenges,

[00:32:45] this is what Christian said that was interesting.

[00:32:46] I'm just going to take his word for it.

[00:32:47] Then that's an 80 more than 84% that he chance that he has an, any individual challenge,

[00:32:53] which is a lot.

[00:32:54] If you think about it.

[00:32:56] So that's the main math.

[00:32:58] The odds of that, I think are very, very low.

[00:33:00] That's basically what Andy's getting at.

[00:33:01] And I do think that is true, but this is my main point against what Andy is saying.

[00:33:07] Firstly, in terms of the odds, I think Andy's odds are fine.

[00:33:10] I think you do have to factor in the fact that like there'll be fewer people.

[00:33:13] So the field will get smaller, although he has one against like heart groups before like purgatory.

[00:33:17] Um, what if he finds a trinket?

[00:33:19] You know, like then he also has another chance at fire, like getting through every round actually isn't just winning the challenge,

[00:33:25] which is what this percentage is based on.

[00:33:27] I think that that is important.

[00:33:28] Um, and then I also think like, is Kyle going to win out?

[00:33:33] Probably not mathematically, but why do you want him to block up the end game?

[00:33:37] That's my main reason I would take out Kyle just because it's annoying to have less agency as a group

[00:33:41] when you can't vote out who you want to vote out, which is less likely when your opponent is going to win immunity more likely.

[00:33:46] So next week as an example, they can split the vote, but not if Kyle wins immunity and then say it's Sam and Kyle.

[00:33:51] Like what if Sam has an idol?

[00:33:53] Like why not give yourself just like maximum targets to be able to actually target who you want out of the game.

[00:33:59] And that is my main argument of why I would take out Kyle, but it's like a 70 30 for me, like both threats, some water.

[00:34:04] Like, I don't think it's hugely meaningful, but I'm so glad we got there.

[00:34:07] That's how I feel about that.

[00:34:09] We here.

[00:34:11] Me to the maths in my head.

[00:34:13] Scram.

[00:34:15] That's what you were thinking about the whole time I was explaining the math.

[00:34:18] He doesn't want to understand you.

[00:34:19] I just can't understand the math.

[00:34:21] But I definitely understand what you're saying about that locking up, jamming up the,

[00:34:25] Yeah.

[00:34:26] Jamming up the end game for sure.

[00:34:28] And there's also, there's the other part to it, which is that like,

[00:34:30] like he seems to have really conveyed this like super likable story.

[00:34:35] Yeah.

[00:34:35] That is like a threat to win the final vote at the end.

[00:34:38] So I get that for sure.

[00:34:40] But I just, I just seem like Genevieve seems so much more like give her an, like an inch.

[00:34:47] Like if you give her a one inch and you can't control what inches other people are giving her.

[00:34:53] You know, you just can't control that, that like that on any given day.

[00:34:58] She has, she's starved.

[00:34:59] She's starved of social capital.

[00:35:02] And that's, that's her superpower.

[00:35:04] And she's ready.

[00:35:06] She keeps saying that it went wrong with the sole vote.

[00:35:08] Do you think that's true?

[00:35:09] Like, or was it like, was anyone looking at her before time?

[00:35:12] I defended it.

[00:35:14] But yeah, since then I do think that it poked her head out way too much.

[00:35:17] And she couldn't recover.

[00:35:19] And everyone like, again, optimally went against her, which I think is very, very upsetting.

[00:35:24] I mean, I think that if you are Andy getting out Genevieve, who's been saying your name and being able to claim it might be enough of a reason that, you know, to push for it over car.

[00:35:32] When I think that there are pros and cons.

[00:35:35] If you're Sue, like the opposite is true.

[00:35:38] Like getting out Carl, who you've been so vocal about might be good for her.

[00:35:41] Caroline wants to appease Sue, which I think is super fair.

[00:35:44] I think Teenie for me, it's just kind of like physical.

[00:35:46] And if anything, Teenie, I think you're showing great patience and not just like emotionally going for Genevieve in these last couple of rounds.

[00:35:51] When I think other threats have made more sense.

[00:35:53] And then if I'm Rachel, I want to keep Genevieve even past Sam, because I feel like Rachel is a Genevieve type threat where she's like an end game threat possibly, but like kind of less than Genevieve.

[00:36:05] And she's like strategic and smart like Genevieve, but less.

[00:36:08] So it's like you would hate to get rid of Genevieve and then in a future week, they're like Rachel or Kyle.

[00:36:12] Well, Kyle's not going to win out.

[00:36:14] You know, even if it gets closer to the end, like now Rachel's the worrying strategic threat versus like if it's Rachel versus Genevieve, Genevieve will always just kind of be in that archetype, but like more prominent.

[00:36:23] So I would keep Genevieve to like six so that they can't come for Rachel early.

[00:36:26] If I'm Rachel, that's why.

[00:36:29] So can we talk about Rachel then?

[00:36:31] So like earlier in like, I love Rachel.

[00:36:34] A few weeks ago, wasn't it?

[00:36:36] What was this consensus that like she was the biggest threat?

[00:36:40] Like what happened there?

[00:36:41] Like, can you refresh me?

[00:36:43] I think she was bepowered a lot in the Sierra vote.

[00:36:47] Right.

[00:36:47] Yeah, she was left out in Sierra vote.

[00:36:48] Who was saying that she was the biggest threat?

[00:36:50] Genevieve and Caroline.

[00:36:53] Okay.

[00:36:54] So that's why she's like not happy Genevieve's been coming for this whole time.

[00:36:57] Ironically, Caroline is still kind of clocking Rachel around all that.

[00:37:01] Can we talk about Rachel?

[00:37:02] Because I feel like this was very much like Rachel's episode.

[00:37:05] For sure.

[00:37:06] This was like if I was her, I would have had my family over for this vote.

[00:37:11] This is the one where you have like the barbecue for, you know, a viewing party.

[00:37:17] Yeah.

[00:37:18] Loved it.

[00:37:18] So many great moments for her.

[00:37:20] And like, I forgot she had the idol until it came up on the little kind of lower third thing.

[00:37:25] And it said idol as well.

[00:37:26] Does anyone know about that idol?

[00:37:28] No.

[00:37:29] Oh, brilliant.

[00:37:32] Yeah.

[00:37:32] So Rachel's in a great spot.

[00:37:35] And this was a great episode.

[00:37:37] And the thing you can say about Rachel is if she is safe with the strategic decision,

[00:37:41] she will do the textbook thing to do.

[00:37:43] Like, as I've said, like, this is what Rachel, Rachel will game something like she will think about something to 150%.

[00:37:47] Like as good as we can think about how to approach a situation with like days to think about it on our couch,

[00:37:54] she will think about that and then some.

[00:37:55] And I really appreciate that.

[00:37:57] I really appreciate a textbook player who's going to do what I want them to do.

[00:38:00] And that is where Rachel has been.

[00:38:02] So for Rachel, this episode, I mean, what to say?

[00:38:06] I mean, firstly, what did you think about her even going on the journey?

[00:38:08] Because I thought that this was, this was crazy.

[00:38:10] Actually, maybe were you on Twitter when I was doing my early rants?

[00:38:13] Because earlier in the season, my big rants were everyone's too polite about the journey.

[00:38:17] And I will die on the hill.

[00:38:19] And I'm excited to die on it.

[00:38:20] It's such a hill worth dying over.

[00:38:22] People are too polite about the damn journey.

[00:38:24] You're telling me that, firstly, everyone who's not Sam, Genevieve and Rachel, I have something to say.

[00:38:31] Oh, it's time for the journey.

[00:38:32] I already won.

[00:38:33] I couldn't possibly go again.

[00:38:34] Are you joking?

[00:38:36] Imagine if that was true of immunity challenge.

[00:38:37] I already won one.

[00:38:38] You should go.

[00:38:39] No, this is Survivor.

[00:38:41] The fact that they didn't even all ask to pick a rock.

[00:38:44] The majority allowed for two members of the minority who are clearly in the minority.

[00:38:48] You can even be rude about it.

[00:38:49] Like, it's so obvious.

[00:38:50] Genevieve and Sam, they go just against Rachel.

[00:38:53] You can't split the vote.

[00:38:54] They could get anything.

[00:38:55] That was so, so concerning that they allowed two members of the minority.

[00:38:58] And Kyle, I already went.

[00:39:01] I already lost my vote on the journey.

[00:39:02] Kyle, you are nezzed out.

[00:39:05] You should be like, I don't, I should just run to the boat,

[00:39:07] which is apparently how that could actually be decided.

[00:39:09] I can't believe that five people-

[00:39:12] Really?

[00:39:13] And when I was complaining about this, my former complaint about this.

[00:39:16] Um, yeah, I asked like all of them what, like I asked Marianne and Oma and Zach, like,

[00:39:20] what's the vibe here?

[00:39:20] And they were like, there's no rules.

[00:39:22] I think you could probably run to the boat.

[00:39:24] If I was Kyle, like they'd be talking about it and the boat would be driving away and I

[00:39:27] would be on it.

[00:39:28] That would be like, what social capital is Kyle going to lose?

[00:39:31] So just go.

[00:39:32] Oh my God.

[00:39:33] They're too polite about that.

[00:39:33] I didn't know that you could just jump on the boat.

[00:39:35] That's awesome.

[00:39:36] Okay.

[00:39:37] All right.

[00:39:43] And the very first thing like this that happened in season one, there was the, there's going

[00:39:50] to be a, what did they even call it?

[00:39:52] They didn't call it a jet.

[00:39:53] They didn't say a moral dilemma.

[00:39:54] They just said, you're going to go for a task.

[00:39:57] That would be, they'd really put their finger on this.

[00:39:59] Yeah.

[00:40:00] Yeah.

[00:40:00] Yeah.

[00:40:00] No, it was two people to go for a walk or whatever it was.

[00:40:06] And Tegan put her hand up, which I didn't mind because I liked Tegan.

[00:40:10] No one else did, but it shocked me that the other people that I was working with didn't

[00:40:15] care that Tegan wanted to go.

[00:40:17] And I was like, okay, that's fine.

[00:40:19] But then Andy said he wanted to go.

[00:40:21] And I was like, oh, there is no way that Andy is going on that journey.

[00:40:26] And I didn't want to go, but I was like, there's no way I'm letting that guy go.

[00:40:31] And I will go for the good of my alliance.

[00:40:34] And again, I would have thought that they would have been grateful that I had like stepped

[00:40:37] up, but the fact that they didn't should have told me kind of what the type of player

[00:40:41] that they were, that they were willing to just let that go.

[00:40:44] They weren't going to see what I was doing as some big heroic thing.

[00:40:47] Cause they were very much just, as long as it's not about me.

[00:40:50] And I was like, well, I'll do it.

[00:40:51] And then it ended up being Tegan and I going so that Andy didn't get it.

[00:40:55] Okay.

[00:40:55] We all know how that all turned out.

[00:40:56] Don't worry about that.

[00:40:57] But just like that fact that someone was willing to win.

[00:41:01] Didn't you win?

[00:41:02] That's how I remember.

[00:41:03] Hey, if I hadn't have gone on that journey, my survivor experience would have been way worse

[00:41:08] that without that moment, there's a, it's arguably I never would have been able to play

[00:41:13] again.

[00:41:14] So I, I'm very grateful.

[00:41:15] No, you were doing a lot more than just that.

[00:41:18] That, but that was like, you know, that was like led to the huge thing.

[00:41:22] Yeah.

[00:41:22] Yeah.

[00:41:23] Okay.

[00:41:23] Think about it.

[00:41:27] Like personally, you know, like I'm sure that is something you think about a lot, but

[00:41:31] maybe not on this podcast.

[00:41:32] No, that's fine.

[00:41:33] So I'm huge, huge supporter of what Rachel did there.

[00:41:39] Um, but also I disagree with your thing that like everyone should want to go because like

[00:41:44] there does, there does have to be some sort of kind of like mitigation of like threat level.

[00:41:49] And like, if you're someone who's been on two journeys already, like, and then you're

[00:41:53] going on a third, like, was it Andy that said he's been on two?

[00:41:56] Is that right?

[00:41:57] Andy.

[00:41:59] Someone said they've been on two.

[00:42:00] Yeah.

[00:42:00] I think going for three, you are putting yourself all over the game board.

[00:42:04] And I just think that like, that's maybe a little bit too much.

[00:42:07] So I think again, like all these things, happy medium.

[00:42:10] I think maybe what you said is maybe too far one way.

[00:42:13] And then what they were doing was too far the other, there is going to be a mid ground.

[00:42:17] And I'm glad that Rachel did it because to the, you know, take the risk, get the reward.

[00:42:24] Well, in terms of like how it can pop your head out.

[00:42:26] There's a couple of things here.

[00:42:27] Firstly, when I was really at my ranty, I was like, you should just tell like the majority

[00:42:31] should just be like, Sam and Genevieve, you're not going like you're anything.

[00:42:35] You're actually clearly on the bottom.

[00:42:36] We're not even hiding it.

[00:42:37] And that's very antisocial, but at the very least.

[00:42:40] So antisocial.

[00:42:41] That's like all the, that is the exact opposite of the advice you gave me before we went out to

[00:42:46] all-stars.

[00:42:49] Never be outwardly antisocial.

[00:42:51] That was like, well, what are the things you said?

[00:42:53] That's a lot.

[00:42:54] That's if you want to be extreme.

[00:42:55] It wouldn't even be antisocial to be like, we can all just pull a rock.

[00:42:58] That's fine.

[00:42:59] Someone shouldn't go on the journey because they went in like episode two.

[00:43:02] Like who cares?

[00:43:03] And even the thing, the journey hasn't even gone well.

[00:43:05] Like people got their amulet.

[00:43:07] If anything, Teeny lost their vote and got the amulet that they didn't even use.

[00:43:11] And Kyle lost his vote.

[00:43:13] So what that, that now Kyle's out of the journey because he went on one and lost it in

[00:43:16] the pre-merge.

[00:43:17] And that was so long ago.

[00:43:18] Like it just, and the reason as well that it shouldn't matter is because if you're in

[00:43:22] a minority, you should push for it.

[00:43:23] Like if you're Kyle, it's not about social capital.

[00:43:25] Like you are getting voted out tomorrow.

[00:43:27] Like again, run to the boat and like be halfway to the barge before they've even started talking

[00:43:32] about it.

[00:43:33] That's for the people in the minority.

[00:43:34] For the majority, they shouldn't care.

[00:43:36] The majority of people literally shouldn't care.

[00:43:38] And you might piss off some, you know, some people on the bottom, some of the threats.

[00:43:43] Um, but like, is it pissing them off more than like every single week playing with their

[00:43:47] lives and being like, it's you or you like that's where the dynamic is right now.

[00:43:50] And for the people in the majority, they should all appreciate it.

[00:43:52] Like they should appreciate Rachel for going and putting their vote on the line for the

[00:43:57] majority.

[00:43:57] And it's so perfect as well because there's five of them.

[00:43:59] So like you actually can wager your vote because it's still going to be four to three.

[00:44:02] You can't split either way.

[00:44:03] Like it's the perfect opportunity to wage your vote for the majority and they should

[00:44:06] at least put their head in a bag.

[00:44:08] And it's not even, I don't think it's rude to say we're going to pull rocks.

[00:44:11] Anyway, I feel so vindicated that people are way too light around.

[00:44:14] It's not rude.

[00:44:15] It's not rude to say they're all pull rocks, but like if, but Kyle's already doing the dump.

[00:44:22] Like he did the worst thing, right?

[00:44:23] He's he's he made the worst choice.

[00:44:27] Uh, Genevieve and Sam made the best choice.

[00:44:29] And Rachel.

[00:44:30] Rachel made, Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, Rachel,

[00:44:33] then realized and then made the best choice.

[00:44:35] Yes.

[00:44:36] She counted that.

[00:44:38] Yeah.

[00:44:38] The others made a choice, but I wouldn't say it was necessarily a bad choice.

[00:44:42] It was terrible, Nick.

[00:44:43] No, no, no.

[00:44:44] Hold on.

[00:44:44] It was not a bad choice that they individually didn't want to do it.

[00:44:48] It was a bad choice that they were letting it get to the point where it could have been

[00:44:54] one of those two.

[00:44:55] 66% chance.

[00:44:56] That's easy math that it was going to be a member of the minority.

[00:45:00] Although to be fair, Kyle didn't put his hand up.

[00:45:02] So you might just be like, well, we can just target Kyle anyway.

[00:45:04] Right.

[00:45:05] Right.

[00:45:05] So this is what I'm about to say.

[00:45:06] Right.

[00:45:06] So in, in, in ranking all of those decisions, if you then say, well, let's all put our hands

[00:45:11] in a bag.

[00:45:12] Now, Kyle, you are taking him out of doing the dumb thing and putting him back into contention

[00:45:17] for the good thing.

[00:45:19] Why?

[00:45:19] I would rather because he's then now going to be pulling out a rock.

[00:45:23] If you're saying we all pull out a rock.

[00:45:26] Oh, he had pulled it.

[00:45:27] He had pulled himself out of it.

[00:45:29] Right.

[00:45:29] And now all of a sudden you're like, let's all pull our hands in rock.

[00:45:32] Now you're making it even worse.

[00:45:34] Because he had actually not got anything and was safe from not getting it.

[00:45:39] True.

[00:45:39] True.

[00:45:40] But also basically you've made, you've made, I'm calling them the lions and the hyenas

[00:45:44] because I think that that's fair.

[00:45:45] You've made the five person hyena alliance.

[00:45:47] Like all putting your hands in the bag is better because it's five of eight chance that

[00:45:50] one of you will pull it.

[00:45:51] Also.

[00:45:52] But now, but then it gives Kyle a one in eight chance.

[00:45:55] I would rather take now, now I'm now I'm Julia Roberts, not Julia Roberts.

[00:45:58] Oh my God.

[00:45:59] I would rather have the one in eight chance that Kyle's putting his hand in the bag because

[00:46:03] God forbid Kyle does go and you can't like, you do still have Sam and Genevieve.

[00:46:07] So, but like also it's then you're much more likely that none of the three of them are

[00:46:11] going to go compared to a two and three chance.

[00:46:13] They got so lucky that Rachel pulled it.

[00:46:15] And it's more annoying for sure.

[00:46:17] That one of them that, you know, and they could like flip it.

[00:46:20] I mean, they're probably not going to work together to that extreme, but they could be

[00:46:22] like, we have something and we're going to flip it around.

[00:46:24] We don't, we don't, and they don't have the power to split.

[00:46:26] I think that that five of eight chance is the best.

[00:46:29] Of that other five, the person, I agree with Andy.

[00:46:32] I think that he also made a fine decision.

[00:46:34] He'd been twice.

[00:46:35] I wouldn't want to go three.

[00:46:36] I don't care what you say.

[00:46:37] I think that's Sue.

[00:46:38] I think that's what he said, right?

[00:46:40] I'm fairly certain.

[00:46:41] I can't remember.

[00:46:41] He said I've been twice.

[00:46:43] And yeah.

[00:46:45] But the other thing is Sue probably make the worst decision.

[00:46:50] Of the five because she has an idol.

[00:46:52] Yeah.

[00:46:53] She has an idol.

[00:46:55] She, and she is desperate to get Kyle out.

[00:46:58] So she's losing, she's on track to be a goat.

[00:47:02] So just like do something big.

[00:47:04] And she was left out at the last vote.

[00:47:08] And she has a lot of space to move.

[00:47:09] She's going to be a threat.

[00:47:10] So she has the most, she can just be like pow pow all the time.

[00:47:13] Like it's, there's nothing to her.

[00:47:16] Her and Kyle, if we had to do the power rankings, her and Kyle made the worst choice.

[00:47:20] And then Caroline made the second worst choice.

[00:47:24] And then Caroline and Tini, sorry.

[00:47:28] And then Andy.

[00:47:30] If Andy went twice.

[00:47:31] But I still think Andy, Andy should also be pow pow pow.

[00:47:33] If Andy went twice.

[00:47:34] If Andy went twice.

[00:47:34] If Andy went twice.

[00:47:35] Andy also like needs stuff.

[00:47:37] Andy needs to change perception.

[00:47:38] Like Andy should be like, you know, just going for everything.

[00:47:41] I think.

[00:47:43] Yeah.

[00:47:44] And for Kyle, it's even worse because worst case scenario, actually, like Sam or Genevieve

[00:47:51] get it.

[00:47:52] And now like they aren't even in contention really.

[00:47:54] Like God forbid they go there and you're like, well, we can't even think about Genevieve.

[00:47:57] So now it's like definitely Kyle.

[00:47:59] So actually like one of the other minority members getting it would have been really bad.

[00:48:03] And this way it just like, yeah.

[00:48:06] For the majority to have it as well, just shores up there.

[00:48:09] Like Kyle is playing individually.

[00:48:10] Like Kyle needs it for him.

[00:48:11] The majority members is bad.

[00:48:13] The majority members, they still have a majority.

[00:48:15] It shows it up for them.

[00:48:16] And the dynamics are so clear as well.

[00:48:18] That like, it's the perfect time to just know exactly what you should do.

[00:48:22] I can't believe I've been ranting that for two months.

[00:48:25] What did you think of the puzzle thing?

[00:48:27] How cool was that?

[00:48:28] Okay.

[00:48:28] I loved that.

[00:48:30] It was so funny.

[00:48:31] I put this on Twitter, but it was, it was like the most dramatic puzzle of all time.

[00:48:34] Because the puzzle is like, if you don't solve me, I'm going to throw myself in the ocean.

[00:48:41] I was like, if you, I swear to God.

[00:48:43] And you know what as well about that puzzle?

[00:48:46] Do you play the water game ever?

[00:48:49] Oh, that's, that's sort of like that little app where you pour the water into different

[00:48:52] jugs.

[00:48:53] I can't even get back into it because I just will never stop.

[00:48:56] You talk about like being distracted by stuff.

[00:48:57] But yeah, like, it's like, it's the same exact game where it's like, like the water colors

[00:49:02] in like, and then you have to slide them around.

[00:49:05] It's really fun.

[00:49:05] Yeah.

[00:49:06] I, um, I loved it.

[00:49:08] I loved the whole, the visual of it.

[00:49:11] I love that you didn't know how long the rope was going to take.

[00:49:16] Like you could look at that rope and go, that could be going for a while, but could

[00:49:20] also disappear really quickly.

[00:49:21] Um, I just love the whole thing.

[00:49:23] I just hope that someone was picking up the balls and they didn't fly off into the ocean

[00:49:26] afterwards and get in the table as well.

[00:49:29] Yeah.

[00:49:29] Someone, someone's diving down against the puzzle.

[00:49:31] Yeah.

[00:49:32] Well, okay.

[00:49:33] But let's talk about this for Rachel.

[00:49:34] Rachel.

[00:49:35] So Rachel goes, Rachel also has an idol to protect.

[00:49:37] Like Rachel does, you know, the great thing for the majority and for herself.

[00:49:40] And then Rachel comes back and plays this exactly how I would want her to play it.

[00:49:44] Like, that's what I always say to do.

[00:49:47] If you come back from a journey and no one's going to trust you, tell your majority because

[00:49:51] then you control the narrative.

[00:49:54] And like her lie to the lions was fine.

[00:49:56] You know, Sam's not going to believe it.

[00:49:57] Like she told the truth of what happened, but said that she lost her vote and ironically got

[00:50:01] to hide her vote.

[00:50:06] Yeah.

[00:50:07] I don't know.

[00:50:12] I think that's true.

[00:50:14] I didn't realize that.

[00:50:16] But that was just luck. But at the end of the day, if they're like, um, you clearly did have a vote. They read five votes and they worked that out.

[00:50:21] Then it doesn't matter because she's controlled it with her majority and she used it to unify everyone.

[00:50:25] And if anything, it actually showed so well why I say to do this. And it works so well.

[00:50:30] And I loved that. And I was so excited that she did that because it was perfect. It bonded people to her. Like, so good. Loved it.

[00:50:36] Yeah, but there are other factors. I did it. It didn't work.

[00:50:39] You told the majority?

[00:50:41] Yeah.

[00:50:42] That's what the majority of people have.

[00:50:44] Well, that should work. Based on my Julia Roberts math calculations, that shouldn't work.

[00:50:47] Sorry, I keep...

[00:50:48] Did you tell the majority?

[00:50:51] So there was eight of us.

[00:50:53] Yeah.

[00:50:53] I told Sue, Jail, Tegan Yu, I knew, and Craig. Five. Five out of eight.

[00:51:02] When we say Sue and Andy, it's really confusing me. Like, I have to go back to the vowel and not be where we're at.

[00:51:07] You told five. I don't know why that didn't work.

[00:51:09] I don't know why that didn't work.

[00:51:10] Because this is exactly how it was intended.

[00:51:13] Do you know what? I think it just shows how much they hated me.

[00:51:16] No, no. Maybe that's a caveat.

[00:51:18] I don't think it's anything about the strategy. I think it was all about the person.

[00:51:21] It wasn't about the poem. That just shows. It was about if you tell your majority, then you can control.

[00:51:25] And the thing that works really well with this is that a vote block isn't that threatening.

[00:51:30] Like, you still need numbers to use a vote block. You can't just, like, it's not an idol.

[00:51:33] You're like, I vote alone and I decide who goes and I'm that, you know, I'm safe now.

[00:51:36] You still need at least half the numbers to block one person.

[00:51:40] And then I feel like she played up that. She's like, it's only good till final six.

[00:51:45] So perfect time.

[00:51:46] A vote block is essentially another, is a rebranding of the extra vote.

[00:51:51] To me, they're both, like, super circumstantial.

[00:51:55] The vote steal is where it's at. The vote steal.

[00:51:59] An idol.

[00:51:59] Yeah, an idol is what most people want. Can you imagine if you had been...

[00:52:03] No, I think a vote steal is sometimes better than the...

[00:52:06] Well, it depends.

[00:52:08] Yeah.

[00:52:08] You have to know so much.

[00:52:10] I still would prefer an idol.

[00:52:12] For the coolness, yeah.

[00:52:16] A vote steal is less likely to work than an idol.

[00:52:22] Well, it depends on your purposes. This is too generic a conversation.

[00:52:25] Well, I just feel like an idol is like, oh, do I play it? Do I need it? Whatever.

[00:52:29] It's like, you can know, but there's so much, like, there's a lot of guesswork.

[00:52:33] A vote steal is like, I now know you can't vote and I get two.

[00:52:40] That's, like, that's a known quantity.

[00:52:42] Like, I believe that there are so many survivor advantages that are unknown quantities.

[00:52:46] That part of the risk is like, well, will it work or won't it work?

[00:52:50] And while that still is dependent on the numbers, it's one of the few advantages that is like,

[00:52:55] there are guaranteed outcomes that you can, like, bank on.

[00:53:00] That's true.

[00:53:01] But in, like, a group of 10 people, your idol, the guaranteed outcome is you will be safe.

[00:53:05] Whereas, like, you still come pretty cool the other votes and, like, you could still go home, you know?

[00:53:09] And a vote steal becomes more and it increases its power the smaller the group gets.

[00:53:14] Why are we arguing this?

[00:53:15] Anyway, continue.

[00:53:16] Well, Mike said last week that one of the reasons to give up your shot in the dark for Rice is, like,

[00:53:21] people lose their votes all the time.

[00:53:22] Like, you don't even know if you're going to be able to use your shot in the dark every round.

[00:53:24] Imagine being like Sam, being like, I really need my shot in the dark.

[00:53:28] I'm taking Rice away from the whole tribe for this.

[00:53:30] And then, like, next week goes to use a shot in the dark and his vote's been blocked.

[00:53:34] Like, that just shows.

[00:53:35] Like, use your shot in the dark while you have it because that is not guaranteed because your vote is not guaranteed.

[00:53:40] Yeah, true.

[00:53:41] True.

[00:53:42] That's a good point.

[00:53:43] Yeah.

[00:53:43] He's clever.

[00:53:44] He's clever.

[00:53:45] It's not an amazing advantage.

[00:53:49] Especially because, like, it's in the final six.

[00:53:52] They all plan to be together to the final six.

[00:53:54] Caroline is, like, well-clocking Rachel.

[00:53:56] But also, I don't know if that will be enough because Rachel has the idol.

[00:54:01] It's still good.

[00:54:03] Yeah.

[00:54:04] Like, a vote block is still good.

[00:54:05] I don't want to admit.

[00:54:06] No, minimize it.

[00:54:07] I just think it's better than an extra vote.

[00:54:09] But, like, it's still, like, she can do something cool with it, right?

[00:54:13] So, she can swing.

[00:54:15] So, if she doesn't want to stick with this five, she can use the vote block to swing things out.

[00:54:21] And then not worry about it bouncing back on her the next round because she has an idol.

[00:54:25] So, like, on its own, it might not work and it can actually reveal quite a lot about your intentions of who you don't want to impact the game in any capacity.

[00:54:35] And that might not be dangerous in that round because they don't know who it was.

[00:54:40] And I know they still won't know who it was, but that will connect the dots as she just went on a journey.

[00:54:44] But it's good because you've got the backup of the round after when the fallout of a somewhat useful advantage may or may not work.

[00:54:53] But you know that you're willing to take the risk on it because you have that kind of extra armor the week after.

[00:54:59] Well, the difference with the issue with the vote block and an extra vote is that you need to have, you need to be going to an even group.

[00:55:08] Like, that's, like, before the vote block, you needed to be going to, like, a 4-4 anyway.

[00:55:13] And now it's a 4-3 or an extra vote, like, now it's a 5-4, which would have been perfect for Titans v Rebels, which every week was, like, and now two different even groups.

[00:55:20] But I think it's otherwise pretty unlikely.

[00:55:22] The vote steal, obviously, can flip a small majority and minority.

[00:55:27] But an idol's like, you know, Kelly Wentworth is going to negate, you know, nine votes to three.

[00:55:31] So that is the difference for me.

[00:55:33] Well, there's a reason why that's so iconic is because it happens so rarely.

[00:55:37] No, I don't think so.

[00:55:39] Think of how many idols, people have gone home with idols in their pockets.

[00:55:43] It's so, so essential.

[00:55:44] People have gone home with gold still in their pocket.

[00:55:45] Like, they're just not playing with them.

[00:55:46] Yeah, I know.

[00:55:47] I just feel like that, like, you know, having had an idol, like, yeah, it gives you comfort a little bit.

[00:55:53] But it doesn't, it's not like this kind of golden ticket to the end.

[00:55:57] The issue is people are more able to play these little advantages because they're not scared of possibly wasting it.

[00:56:04] Where an idol is so valuable that people don't play it when they should because they're like,

[00:56:09] this could be, you know, this is, I don't want to waste it.

[00:56:11] It's so valuable.

[00:56:12] And that's the issue with the idol because it's that valuable.

[00:56:14] And I've now, I don't even know how I get into this.

[00:56:17] That's true.

[00:56:18] In both of my experiences, I held onto my idol one vote and then played it the one after.

[00:56:24] And I held onto my vote still and then I played it the one after.

[00:56:26] So I just, like, have this theory in my head that if you've got anything, a two-round maximum, but a one round, you should do it the first time, if not the second.

[00:56:37] That's my, that's my, it's always been my prevailing thought and I've done it both times.

[00:56:41] Interesting.

[00:56:42] Well, I don't even know where we've gone.

[00:56:46] I don't even know where I'm in my notes.

[00:56:48] We've talked about so many things.

[00:56:49] All right, let me check my notes.

[00:56:50] No, okay.

[00:56:50] Well, I want to talk about Sam.

[00:56:52] I have, this is, okay.

[00:56:53] Let's talk about Soul's camel toe.

[00:56:55] Did you see that in the bloody, on the jury bench?

[00:56:58] Oh yeah, no, that's in my notes.

[00:56:59] That's exactly, no, that's not in my notes, Nick.

[00:57:01] I think I noticed very different things about the show.

[00:57:04] I was like, Soul, Jesus Christ.

[00:57:06] Those are some type fans.

[00:57:08] All right.

[00:57:08] I love Soul fans all the time.

[00:57:10] This is my mind guiding the podcast.

[00:57:11] We love Soul.

[00:57:12] What's the prevailing thought on Soul?

[00:57:13] Everyone loves Soul.

[00:57:14] That didn't permeate.

[00:57:15] Right.

[00:57:16] The Kyle stuff that I'm tweeting about permeated, but not how much everyone loves Soul.

[00:57:20] That's like unanimous across the fandom.

[00:57:22] Okay.

[00:57:23] Thirsting over him, but I didn't see people like that.

[00:57:24] Yeah, no, that as well.

[00:57:25] So you saw that.

[00:57:26] So, okay, so now it's been tracking what's permeated through your social media detox.

[00:57:31] Me complaining that Kyle hasn't actually won and Soul being thirsted over a lot.

[00:57:35] But we don't know if you like him, but he definitely got thirsted over.

[00:57:38] Those were the two.

[00:57:38] Oh, and Rome.

[00:57:40] Oh, no, but I was probably more on Twitter at the beginning with the whole Rome stuff.

[00:57:42] I saw a lot of the Rome stuff.

[00:57:44] Did you like Rome?

[00:57:45] I thought it was entertaining.

[00:57:47] Yeah.

[00:57:48] I thought it was great for the show.

[00:57:49] Yeah.

[00:57:49] It was a good character.

[00:57:52] I feel like I'm being diplomatic, but that's just how it, yeah.

[00:57:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:57:55] No, he was great.

[00:57:56] All right.

[00:57:56] Can we talk about Sam?

[00:57:57] Because I want to talk about Sam.

[00:57:58] Because.

[00:57:59] Please do.

[00:57:59] Please.

[00:58:00] Last week, Sam got the fishy.

[00:58:01] I gave him max chizzy points.

[00:58:03] And now he's like so at the bottom.

[00:58:04] So I spent a lot of time.

[00:58:05] It's actually really funny if you read my notes about Sam, because I argue with myself

[00:58:08] and I didn't have time to go back and change them.

[00:58:10] But I like went on a journey with it where I'm like working out what he should do and

[00:58:14] like came to the conclusion.

[00:58:17] Because like, why is Sam here?

[00:58:19] Like, did you like what he did last week?

[00:58:21] He brought it all together.

[00:58:22] He takes out Gabe.

[00:58:23] He's a big part of that.

[00:58:24] Instigates it even.

[00:58:26] Bleeding it probably.

[00:58:26] That's what we saw.

[00:58:27] And now is like down in the trenches trying to work with the Genevives and the Carls.

[00:58:31] Probably could have used a Gabe.

[00:58:32] Should he have kept Gabe in the game?

[00:58:35] Now, talking about that, it's not even Gabe v Genevieve because last week, my biggest takeaway

[00:58:40] was that Genevieve and Gabe and the Tukus who were on the ropes a bit and maybe would

[00:58:46] want a majority and Gabe's on the ropes and Kyle's going to be on the ropes when he's

[00:58:49] vulnerable and Genevieve's on the ropes.

[00:58:51] I thought they should have made a majority of five and gone for like a Sam or a Rachel.

[00:58:54] Should Sam have done that same thing with Tukus, with the Tukus, maybe even with Genevieve

[00:58:58] and gone taken out like an Andy, which they're trying to do here.

[00:59:01] They're trying to do the goat hunting here.

[00:59:02] Should he have done that last week with Gabe in still to keep threats or not?

[00:59:08] What do you think?

[00:59:09] No, I do not fault people taking out Gabe.

[00:59:13] Like I know that it didn't the exact thing that they didn't want to happen afterwards.

[00:59:17] That was so Sam so on the bottom and all that.

[00:59:19] But I just I don't know whether it was about just Gabe's vibe.

[00:59:23] It was just like so off-putting.

[00:59:25] Like it was just such an off-putting vibe.

[00:59:27] I felt.

[00:59:27] That's not why they took out Gabe.

[00:59:29] No, no, I know.

[00:59:30] Hear me out.

[00:59:31] I'm putting in the fact that like he had Sue as this like super devoted to him.

[00:59:37] He was very kind of like thought he knew what he was doing, seemed like he was like really

[00:59:42] wanted to kind of prove himself very much like, I don't know, felt like he felt he was going

[00:59:50] to be making bigger moves than he did.

[00:59:52] And I just it's just kind of like, no, let's just clear that from the table.

[00:59:57] Like let's just clear the uncertainty.

[00:59:59] Let's clear the vibe.

[01:00:01] Let's clear the he's got this really tight ally.

[01:00:03] They've been together for a very long time.

[01:00:05] Like that just to me, it was just like, no.

[01:00:09] Exit stage left.

[01:00:10] And then let's just and let's just reassess.

[01:00:14] Yes.

[01:00:14] So.

[01:00:15] Right.

[01:00:16] Not yes.

[01:00:16] So I don't I'm all in on what they did.

[01:00:21] I am surprised that like Sam is viewed as this like big threat.

[01:00:25] Like what other than that, which I think a lot of them would think that they were their

[01:00:30] masterminds behind it and not actually lay it at Sam's feet.

[01:00:33] So other than that, like what what has he I think he's I've really enjoyed Sam.

[01:00:38] But like what has he done to be put in the level of like, no, it's so clear.

[01:00:42] Like Genevieve is like this strategic threat took out soul, all this stuff.

[01:00:47] Kyle is this huge challenge beast who wins all these challenges.

[01:00:51] Family guy.

[01:00:51] Sam is a young fit dude.

[01:00:55] Yeah, it's the patriarchy.

[01:00:56] I was literally going to say like it's just patriarchy writ large that this like young

[01:01:02] guy who doesn't seem to have like this huge worldly experience.

[01:01:07] He seems like a little bit of a bimbo.

[01:01:10] I like him, though.

[01:01:10] I like him.

[01:01:11] I like him.

[01:01:12] I like him.

[01:01:12] Just a little bit of a bimbo.

[01:01:15] Like the strays that are being thrown.

[01:01:21] I like him.

[01:01:22] I like him.

[01:01:22] I like him.

[01:01:23] But it's just like what I guess what I'm trying to say is that like what has made him

[01:01:32] the threat that they perceive him to be?

[01:01:36] It's just perception.

[01:01:37] Like and that's why I say that like even last week when I talked about it, I'm like Sam will

[01:01:40] get taken out just because he's someone jury's like.

[01:01:43] And that and we and like it's so important to how we view the show.

[01:01:49] And this is why I wrote an article a couple of months ago that I would love everyone to

[01:01:54] check out.

[01:01:55] I'm really proud of it about like can jury's be wrong?

[01:01:57] And it was a lot about like jury bias and human bias that we should always be deconstructing.

[01:02:01] Like I want to talk about Sue in this as an example.

[01:02:03] Like do I think that Sue has played a fantastic game?

[01:02:06] I thought she was great early.

[01:02:07] I have obviously question marks around like a lot of the fact that Tugu wasn't viable,

[01:02:12] which I think would have been optimal for pretty much all of them and certainly going

[01:02:15] further into the game was because Sue was just so set on Kyle.

[01:02:18] Like it was like it made like it locked up a lot of the game because she was just so set

[01:02:23] on Kyle.

[01:02:23] And I'm not saying that that is good.

[01:02:24] I think that those are missteps.

[01:02:25] I think that lying about the age is silly and the blood didn't go well and her face is

[01:02:29] always dirty.

[01:02:30] Like I'm not saying that those things aren't true, but I also think that like when Sue

[01:02:33] is a zero vote finalist, which is almost inevitable at this point, it'll be in a long

[01:02:37] line of like old women finalists and like maybe she'll deserve it more than some

[01:02:40] of the other people in that archetype.

[01:02:42] Like some of those people really didn't deserve it.

[01:02:44] You know, it's much harder to be a Sue and get the credit than it is to be Sam who comes

[01:02:48] in with the credit.

[01:02:48] Now Sam's then fighting against the fact that he's a threat.

[01:02:51] Like Sam's then fighting against the fact that people think that he can win challenges

[01:02:54] even if the record, I mean, he's probably been fine, but like the record isn't as much

[01:02:57] there even with the asterisk or not.

[01:02:59] Like he hasn't won the challenges, but we think he could.

[01:03:02] We think he could win at the end.

[01:03:03] Like it's just, it's different struggles.

[01:03:05] In Pure Survivor, it's different struggles.

[01:03:07] It's like how will Sam even get to the end because he comes in and people are already

[01:03:10] looking at him versus how will Sue win at the end?

[01:03:12] In this type of survivor, it has tried to help out the Sams who have that archetype to

[01:03:18] protect them on fewer rounds, to have more trinkets, to have fire, to have these things

[01:03:22] to get them through the difficulties of that.

[01:03:24] And that's how it's kind of changed it.

[01:03:25] But yeah, it's literally just perception.

[01:03:27] Juries do like the Sams.

[01:03:30] And every time I'm like, oh, he's going to get taken out because look at him like that.

[01:03:35] And that's just what it is.

[01:03:36] And then I think like, am I biased for just assuming that?

[01:03:38] But then it plays out and I think, nope, that's society.

[01:03:41] And I'm not wrong for simply commenting on it.

[01:03:43] I'm just calling out what I see.

[01:03:45] It's not my fault.

[01:03:45] Patriarchy is not my fault.

[01:03:46] I'm just commenting on something that is true.

[01:03:49] It is amazing that like, you know, this show is so popular because it's just such a study

[01:03:55] in the way we perceive each other and the way in which we act in social groups.

[01:03:59] And just like for 47 times, we've seen very similar things play out again and again.

[01:04:06] And it's like, this is why reality TV will never go away.

[01:04:10] This is why Survivor is here to stay.

[01:04:12] Just because it's just like this endlessly fascinating thing that you can put Sue there

[01:04:17] and people will think of her one way.

[01:04:19] And you can put Sam there and people will think of him another way.

[01:04:22] Like, it's just fascinating to me.

[01:04:24] 100%.

[01:04:25] Depressing.

[01:04:26] Yeah.

[01:04:27] I mean, like Cochran and Dawn played similar games, you know, and like it went, that's

[01:04:31] always a good example.

[01:04:32] Gabler was ridiculous too.

[01:04:34] Like, was Gabler less ridiculous than Sue?

[01:04:37] I've said this and this is a long time and I don't mean to like make it always about Gabler,

[01:04:40] but if Gabler was a woman, things would be very different.

[01:04:44] But he couldn't win.

[01:04:45] He wouldn't get one vote because Gabler's been a woman many times.

[01:04:48] People don't like that.

[01:04:50] They don't like the kooky woman.

[01:04:51] They're okay with the kooky man.

[01:04:52] A little bit more okay in the right circumstance.

[01:04:54] It's not amazing, but it's better.

[01:04:56] And that's simply the patriarchy.

[01:04:57] And that's Sam's cross to bear.

[01:04:58] Like, that will make it hard for Sam now.

[01:05:00] Sam lost Sierra.

[01:05:01] That was hard.

[01:05:02] Didn't want to lose soul.

[01:05:03] That was hard.

[01:05:04] Like, was losing power.

[01:05:06] And then last week gets a bit of power to make a decision.

[01:05:08] But I think what is clear now is like that decision I'm actually fine with in the end.

[01:05:13] But either way, it's really tough for Sam because of the perception, because of some of the

[01:05:17] lack of agency.

[01:05:18] And I think like had he kept Gabe last week, then the chookus probably just want to take him out.

[01:05:23] But anyway, like he's in a very similar spot of not having control and still having to get

[01:05:27] as far as he can until he can try to win out and maybe even gets less far.

[01:05:31] Like if he can push Genevieve ahead now to get to six, there's only a couple of challenges

[01:05:35] in fire.

[01:05:36] Like the challenge beast archetype have fought through less.

[01:05:38] And I think that actually is okay for him.

[01:05:41] I don't see how there's a pathway for him from last week that's better than that.

[01:05:45] I think Tukou maybe take out like a Genevieve here if they can be united and then take him

[01:05:50] out.

[01:05:51] So.

[01:05:52] I'm surprised that the Andy Sam thing didn't come.

[01:05:57] I felt like we were building towards it so much that like the monster takes out Frankenstein

[01:06:02] kind of thing.

[01:06:02] This like.

[01:06:04] We do love that.

[01:06:06] I was, I would have bet my bottom dollar that it was going to happen in the first few weeks

[01:06:10] of the merge.

[01:06:12] Like.

[01:06:12] I mean, it's a will.

[01:06:14] Or it'll definitely play out in many ways.

[01:06:17] I feel like it's fizzled.

[01:06:17] I feel like it's fizzled.

[01:06:17] Sam doesn't vote for Andy or something.

[01:06:20] Yeah.

[01:06:21] True.

[01:06:21] True.

[01:06:21] True.

[01:06:21] Like there's so many ways that could go.

[01:06:24] Yeah.

[01:06:24] That's true.

[01:06:25] I mean, it has fizzled because if Sam goes, it'll be just like in his inevitable takeout spot,

[01:06:30] which is what I said last week.

[01:06:31] I'm like, they will just cut him which day.

[01:06:32] And it played out earlier than I thought when he was so out of it so quickly.

[01:06:37] But yeah, they probably just cut a threat.

[01:06:39] And that's not really like an Andy thing as much of the storyline.

[01:06:41] I think a lot of that played out with Sierra.

[01:06:43] Like they really gave him the storyline of like, that was when he got the, he's all that

[01:06:46] moment of turning up on Sierra.

[01:06:48] So I feel like that storyline, we got a lot of that with that.

[01:06:51] True.

[01:06:52] Yeah.

[01:06:53] That's what he said.

[01:06:55] Yeah.

[01:06:55] I know.

[01:06:55] I loved it.

[01:06:56] I loved it.

[01:06:57] So if you see my notes about Sam, it's literally like, yeah, I said last week he'd get cut

[01:07:01] at six.

[01:07:02] Maybe that's not optimal.

[01:07:03] Maybe he should work with Tuku.

[01:07:04] But then Tuku are in power.

[01:07:05] Then he's probably getting cut even earlier.

[01:07:06] All right.

[01:07:06] It was fine.

[01:07:07] It's not like, I criticize that he's even in the position from a threat management perspective

[01:07:11] or without the agency to be in a position where like both options aren't great, but

[01:07:15] like I'm fine with it.

[01:07:16] And scene.

[01:07:16] What else?

[01:07:17] Don't talk about Souls, Camel Toe.

[01:07:19] When I throw to you, like, please give me something better than that.

[01:07:24] Why did Kyle vote for Tini?

[01:07:25] Can you explain it?

[01:07:26] I don't have to.

[01:07:27] He shrugged in the final words.

[01:07:29] It was really funny.

[01:07:29] Yeah.

[01:07:30] Why was that though?

[01:07:32] I think Kyle knew he was out.

[01:07:33] Like, I think it was done.

[01:07:36] Yeah, but what?

[01:07:37] I think it was really clear.

[01:07:39] I think he, like, it was nothing.

[01:07:41] It was a throwaway vote.

[01:07:42] And then they split the vote.

[01:07:44] So that was interesting.

[01:07:45] I mean, how do we look at Kyle?

[01:07:47] Like, because last week I criticized Caroline, Kyle, all those people.

[01:07:51] I don't want to talk about Caroline, but all those people for turning on Tuku.

[01:07:56] And I wanted Tuku and Genevieve to vote out Rachel or Sam.

[01:08:01] I feel like for Kyle, like, maybe Tuku don't stay together.

[01:08:04] And again, Sue can wear losing, like, the very optimal four-person Tuku group that could

[01:08:09] have, like, played it down.

[01:08:10] But, like, Sue can probably wear a lot of that because it was never an option.

[01:08:15] Like, even just having Gabe here.

[01:08:17] Does Kyle go if he loses?

[01:08:18] Maybe.

[01:08:19] Maybe still.

[01:08:20] But, like, I still would want Gabe just as an individual shield.

[01:08:23] Thoughts on Kyle?

[01:08:25] I liked Kyle.

[01:08:27] I think he was good.

[01:08:30] I feel like that what would be happening is, like, Gabe would be like,

[01:08:33] I told you guys, if you voted out me, everything was going to go bad from there.

[01:08:39] Like, and that just annoys me.

[01:08:41] And, like, I hope that Kyle...

[01:08:41] But he didn't say that.

[01:08:42] You just said that as him.

[01:08:44] I know.

[01:08:45] I know.

[01:08:45] I know.

[01:08:45] That's just what I feel like he would be saying at Jury Villa.

[01:08:50] Fair enough.

[01:08:51] I hope that's not happening.

[01:08:53] Kyle, I feel like it was such...

[01:08:56] Did I miss something?

[01:08:57] But what did he ever say about Sue?

[01:09:00] Well, we don't know.

[01:09:02] And I'm hoping.

[01:09:02] And I forgot that there aren't any exits today.

[01:09:04] Can the interviewers please ask Kyle if he called them Tweedledee and Tweedledum?

[01:09:09] It's important to me.

[01:09:10] The biggest debate I've had over the past week, multiple times...

[01:09:12] Who said that?

[01:09:14] Andy said to Sue that he called them Tweedledee and Tweedledum.

[01:09:19] Would you be insulted by that, though?

[01:09:21] Because a lot of people were like, that's fine.

[01:09:23] Okay, good.

[01:09:23] It is insulting.

[01:09:24] I'd be insulted if it came from someone I didn't like.

[01:09:27] If it came from one of my friends, it'd be like, Tweedled...

[01:09:30] You know, it's just, that's all about context.

[01:09:31] It's about context, you know?

[01:09:32] Okay, good, because I've been calling you that.

[01:09:34] I got that image of you in the hospital and I was like, what has this Tweedledum done now?

[01:09:40] Well, who's my Tweedledee?

[01:09:42] Me?

[01:09:43] Yeah, yeah.

[01:09:44] That's it.

[01:09:44] Hey, we're all in this together, you know?

[01:09:46] But you'd rather be D than D.

[01:09:50] Tweedledee is like the doofus.

[01:09:52] Tweedledum is like the idiot.

[01:09:54] Oh.

[01:09:55] Well, apparently Sue wrote Tweedledum on her vote.

[01:10:01] Actually?

[01:10:01] Yeah.

[01:10:04] Really?

[01:10:05] Did they show that?

[01:10:06] Tweedledee.

[01:10:07] I saw David Bloomberg tweet it.

[01:10:09] I didn't catch it in the moment.

[01:10:13] It depends if she wrote Tweedledee or Tweedledum.

[01:10:15] Like, that's Tweedledum.

[01:10:17] Yeah.

[01:10:18] If I were to hear that, I'd be like, well, who's the D and who's the dumb?

[01:10:21] That's...

[01:10:22] Okay, well, out of us, who's the D and who's the dumb?

[01:10:26] Don't make me answer.

[01:10:27] Don't make me answer.

[01:10:27] Tell me.

[01:10:28] Tell me who you think I am.

[01:10:29] Come on.

[01:10:30] You think I'm the dumb?

[01:10:31] I don't think I'm Tweedledum.

[01:10:39] Where are we?

[01:10:41] Do you think I'm Tweedledum?

[01:10:43] No, I think that I'd probably be Tweedledee.

[01:10:46] I'd probably be a bit more the...

[01:10:48] I don't know the difference between Tweedledee and Tweedledum.

[01:10:49] Wait, wait, wait.

[01:10:50] Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[01:10:51] No.

[01:10:51] I'm the dumb.

[01:10:52] And then, like, the D is the kind of one that's a bit more, like, kind of, like, you

[01:10:56] know, a bit more hard to pin down.

[01:10:59] Dumb's just, like, you're, like, a dumbass.

[01:11:01] So, like, I would take that because I don't think that fits you.

[01:11:04] You know?

[01:11:04] I mean, that's so sweet.

[01:11:07] Why has this been so much...

[01:11:08] I'm trying to make up for the fact that I sent you that photo.

[01:11:11] Yeah.

[01:11:11] Why did you put 10 minutes in hospital purgatory?

[01:11:14] Yes.

[01:11:16] Where were we?

[01:11:17] Oh, what did he say about them?

[01:11:18] I mean, he voted for Sue.

[01:11:19] That's been the big thing.

[01:11:20] The TK vote.

[01:11:21] Oh, my God.

[01:11:23] Wow, okay.

[01:11:24] Hey, these grudges...

[01:11:25] For us, it's been weeks and months.

[01:11:27] For them, it's been, like, what?

[01:11:29] They're on day six or something?

[01:11:31] Yeah.

[01:11:32] No, that's stupid.

[01:11:33] That's always been really...

[01:11:34] That has actually been Tweedledum.

[01:11:36] But we don't know what Kyle was saying about them.

[01:11:38] And I want to know in the exits if he called them that.

[01:11:40] I think it matters how two-sided this tango was.

[01:11:44] Because Kyle got, like, a big hero edit.

[01:11:46] I'm not saying a lot of it wasn't deserved, but I don't think we got, like, a nuanced

[01:11:49] portrayal of what that dynamic might have been like.

[01:11:51] No.

[01:11:52] Even though I still criticize Sue's part in it.

[01:11:54] But I just want to know...

[01:11:55] This is why I go back to my point that they should have got rid of Genevieve.

[01:11:58] Like, he just seemed like so much less of a threat around Cam.

[01:12:04] He didn't put his hand up to go on the journey.

[01:12:06] He voted for Tini.

[01:12:08] You know, like, there was a lot of stuff here that seems fairly easy to navigate around

[01:12:12] if someone can just get a ball in a hole.

[01:12:15] You know?

[01:12:16] So...

[01:12:16] I said last week...

[01:12:17] Well, let's not re-litigate.

[01:12:19] Yeah.

[01:12:19] Well, I said last week that Sue and Kyle reminds me of Homer and Flanders.

[01:12:24] Like, is Kyle not Ned Flanders?

[01:12:29] And then they were like, yeah, Tweedily Dee, he would literally...

[01:12:32] He would literally...

[01:12:36] And I was really dumb.

[01:12:37] There you go.

[01:12:38] Yeah.

[01:12:39] I think that next week is where the real juice is.

[01:12:44] Did you see the preview?

[01:12:45] And I know we don't always trust the previews, but, like, it did look like Andy had fallen

[01:12:50] out of that five.

[01:12:51] Because he was very much in that little cluster of Genevieve, Andy, Sam.

[01:12:56] No?

[01:12:56] You're not buying it?

[01:12:57] No.

[01:12:58] I think Genevieve's gone.

[01:12:59] Well, what do you think about Genevieve?

[01:13:01] Where do you think about soul?

[01:13:03] Where it went wrong for Genevieve?

[01:13:04] Where do you put the Genevieve's face?

[01:13:05] I love Genevieve.

[01:13:06] Can we talk about her?

[01:13:07] So there was that scene where it was just the three of the kind of lions, as you call

[01:13:11] them, Asterix and Sam.

[01:13:13] But the fact that they were all there and they all have this kind of, like, realisation

[01:13:17] circle, where, like, the edit gave each of them this kind of, like, moment

[01:13:21] of, like, realisation.

[01:13:22] One was like, oh, I need to be more harsh.

[01:13:24] The other one's like, oh, it's okay to lie or whatever.

[01:13:26] But what did you think of, like, Genevieve's?

[01:13:29] I think you've already kind of touched on it.

[01:13:30] I thought it was so interesting to hear her actually verbalise her realisation out at

[01:13:35] Tribal Council.

[01:13:37] Like, I thought that was so crazy that she actually said it in front of everyone.

[01:13:41] Why?

[01:13:42] Is it because she thought she was going home and she was just like, I'll just say my

[01:13:45] story now so at least makes the TV?

[01:13:47] She's very honest at Tribal Council, I think.

[01:13:50] It's very, very honest to say that.

[01:13:54] I have personally detached from people and I am not interacting with people.

[01:13:59] Like, you are killing.

[01:14:01] I think it's actually this probably more nuance and it's probably a bit more layered than

[01:14:05] this.

[01:14:05] But, like, for some of those players, you could be signing away a vote from Final Travel just

[01:14:12] based on that.

[01:14:13] Once you're doing it, you better be honest about it because otherwise they're like,

[01:14:16] she's just not connecting with me because she doesn't like me.

[01:14:18] Like, it would be better to be like, I want to connect with you, but it's a me thing.

[01:14:20] Like, it's not you, it's me.

[01:14:22] My criticism is on that.

[01:14:23] But it's like, how much can you criticize something that's just like a personal struggle?

[01:14:27] I mean, I do don't have the personal struggle.

[01:14:29] You can't come on Survivor and be like, I am the people person.

[01:14:32] I'm like a social queen like anything.

[01:14:34] One of the best social players we'd seen like in the pre-merge.

[01:14:37] It was, it's really special.

[01:14:38] And then be like, I'm not going to try and exploit that because that is the game.

[01:14:42] And although, and I do criticize it because from optimal strategy, of course, but then

[01:14:45] like from a story perspective, like that is just like from a human, in a human way,

[01:14:49] what she's struggling with.

[01:14:51] And that's so interesting.

[01:14:52] And I really liked, that was my favorite part of the episode by far was early on with Caroline

[01:14:55] stuff.

[01:14:55] We'll talk about, even Carl was talking about it.

[01:14:58] Andy had a bit of that.

[01:14:58] Genevieve had just like how much they struggle with the game, which is like the beauty of Survivor.

[01:15:03] You know, 20 something, 24 years into this still so hard and so complicated.

[01:15:08] And I thought it was great.

[01:15:09] And I thought it was so chilling when she was like, Kishon said, Genevieve, I trusted you.

[01:15:15] And they had, they went back and they had her over, like overlaid her confessional and

[01:15:18] her saying it over him saying it.

[01:15:19] And I had goosebumps.

[01:15:20] I was like, oh, he really did say it exactly like that.

[01:15:23] That was good.

[01:15:24] Yeah.

[01:15:24] Yeah.

[01:15:25] That was really good.

[01:15:26] Yeah.

[01:15:26] So what, so what, so like where, what blame do we put?

[01:15:29] What do you, what blame do you put on Genevieve?

[01:15:30] You've been detached from the discourse.

[01:15:32] Like how did we get here?

[01:15:34] I think that she just got like, I, my read of it and it's probably wrong, but my read

[01:15:40] of it was that she was found out that she was very good at this game and it just was happening

[01:15:46] for her and it was happening really well.

[01:15:49] And I just, I think there are some people who think, you know, obviously there are people

[01:15:52] who go out there thinking they're going to be really good at the game and they have a

[01:15:54] different experience.

[01:15:54] There are people who go out there and they think they might be right.

[01:15:56] And then things just happen.

[01:15:58] Like I think of someone like Elle, for example, who I played with, never seen the show

[01:16:01] before, terrible at articulating herself, but just a natural fluency for the movement

[01:16:06] of the game, a natural fluency for moving around camp.

[01:16:09] And I think that she, Genevieve had that natural fluency that maybe surprised her and how things

[01:16:15] were happening and was excited to do them and kept doing them and then started to feel

[01:16:19] bad about them.

[01:16:20] But like, I think she just kind of like just the ball kept rolling and she just kept rolling

[01:16:24] with it too far.

[01:16:25] And that maybe that excitement at realizing how effective you are at the game.

[01:16:31] Got too much.

[01:16:33] Like when you have to struggle so much in the game, like you don't, the ball, like the momentum

[01:16:41] isn't rolling that it rolls away from you.

[01:16:43] Like it's this stop, start, you know, the ball rolls back and crushes you for a little bit.

[01:16:48] You duck out of the way, you can push it back and then you've got to keep going.

[01:16:50] And whereas I think for her, it just seems so natural that it's like her legs couldn't keep

[01:16:57] up.

[01:16:57] And she just thought the next thing you do is make the next big move.

[01:17:00] And then the next big move, the next big move.

[01:17:03] So that's why I think exactly.

[01:17:07] That's why I think that there are some people, you know, like I think of like Kim Spradlin

[01:17:11] when she came back for like Winners at War, like so few things went correct for her.

[01:17:17] Where the first time it was just like everything was happening and she was like invincible socially,

[01:17:24] strategically, physically, idols, this, that.

[01:17:27] That like she was this rolling stone.

[01:17:29] Um, if you don't have those struggles, it doesn't like, I feel like there is a part of you that's

[01:17:36] like that, that makes you not a very good survivor.

[01:17:39] Right.

[01:17:40] Because you have to be able to recognize when the shit hits the fence.

[01:17:43] And this is why I think Shani is actually such a good survivor because so much of her game

[01:17:48] has been played from a limited position yet.

[01:17:52] She has still survived.

[01:17:54] Like she knows the pitfalls.

[01:17:55] She knows when the trap door is about to fall and she's going to just like, just, she's

[01:18:00] just going to be taken off the board.

[01:18:01] Like other people who've perhaps come back.

[01:18:04] And I think of someone like Abby, for example, I played with Abby and Shani.

[01:18:08] Abby, every single thing went right for her until the very last moment when it didn't.

[01:18:13] She came into all stars with an extremely different viewpoint than Shani did.

[01:18:17] And we saw how that turned out in the battle between Shani and Abby.

[01:18:21] So I think that it just rolled too fast for her to be able to then pull it back.

[01:18:25] And then now she's left with like nothing.

[01:18:28] I hope she can get shit back together because I freaking love Genevieve.

[01:18:32] I love her faces at Tribal.

[01:18:33] I love the way she talks about the game.

[01:18:35] I think she's a strange person.

[01:18:38] She seems normal, but like, I think she actually is a strange person.

[01:18:41] And that's why I love her.

[01:18:42] I love her.

[01:18:43] Yeah, exactly.

[01:18:43] That's not derogatory.

[01:18:44] That's not, no.

[01:18:45] Anyone who's listened to the first hour and a bit of this podcast could not possibly

[01:18:49] think that we are throwing stones at that glass house.

[01:18:51] You're one of our people.

[01:18:52] Of course.

[01:18:54] If you're.

[01:18:54] Yeah.

[01:18:55] Yeah.

[01:18:55] It was just Gabe.

[01:18:57] No, I just mean in terms of like, we're strange.

[01:19:00] We're really, really.

[01:19:01] Oh, yeah.

[01:19:02] Oh, okay.

[01:19:02] Yeah.

[01:19:03] Like she's a strange person.

[01:19:04] Obviously you mean that in a good way.

[01:19:05] Like that's great.

[01:19:07] I love what you're saying because we had been comparing her to Kim Spradlin.

[01:19:10] And then I said last week, I'm like, oh, really?

[01:19:12] Yeah.

[01:19:13] Oh, wait.

[01:19:13] That didn't even permeate.

[01:19:14] So.

[01:19:15] That had a permeate.

[01:19:16] Thirsting over soul and Kyle's challenges, but not, not Genevieve is Kim and poverty combined.

[01:19:21] Really?

[01:19:22] That's been a big take.

[01:19:23] Like early on, she sounds like poverty as well.

[01:19:25] So that's been a big, but I did say last week, I'm like, she's not Kim.

[01:19:27] She couldn't recover.

[01:19:28] But I like what you're saying better.

[01:19:30] First 70% of this game.

[01:19:31] She was Kim Spradlin in one world.

[01:19:33] Now she's just Kim Spradlin and winners at war.

[01:19:35] Yeah.

[01:19:35] I'm thinking about Kim, like on the beach in the, in the premiere being like, or maybe

[01:19:39] the second episode being like, we're not in Kansas anymore.

[01:19:41] Relevant to Wicked Month.

[01:19:44] And, and I think that's her now.

[01:19:47] It's just, it's happened in the one season.

[01:19:48] So she's still Kim.

[01:19:49] She's got the breadth of the experience in the one game.

[01:19:52] And that's good because it's effective, you know, in a shorter game too.

[01:19:55] She's having the whole Kim Spradlin journey without the win though.

[01:19:58] Unfortunately.

[01:20:00] Um, okay.

[01:20:01] I love that.

[01:20:02] Yeah.

[01:20:02] Well until, yeah.

[01:20:03] Anyway, I, um, I don't think, I think it's, it's a tough road ahead for, for Genevieve,

[01:20:08] but I, I appreciated the inventiveness of thinking of going for the goat killing strategy.

[01:20:12] It's hard because Rachel is so incentivized to stay with the group and they all are.

[01:20:15] That's what Kim didn't have.

[01:20:17] She didn't have a, you know, AI optimized robot group doing what is in their best interest,

[01:20:21] which kind of other than being too polite at the journey, like everyone, I think, you

[01:20:25] know, is mostly not Kyle, but a lot of people are really doing it at the moment.

[01:20:29] Um, speaking of that, I'd love to talk about Caroline, if we can get to Caroline.

[01:20:33] Um, cause I was harsh on Caroline last week.

[01:20:35] I laid the feet of what I, or the, what I wanted to have and I laid it at her feet.

[01:20:39] I wanted her to protect, um, Tuku and Gabe and Genevieve and like take out, you know,

[01:20:44] someone on the other side and have more agency.

[01:20:46] And she has like a great scene.

[01:20:48] She comes back with Sue, I think so well.

[01:20:50] I mean, talk about recovering with an ally, like who could say no to the emotion and

[01:20:54] the, you know, story that she gave to Sue and it was genuine and it was amazing.

[01:20:57] Um, and now I really see it in a much better way for Caroline.

[01:21:00] Um, I'm a little bit higher on last week's move for the reason of, I wanted her to keep

[01:21:07] going with Tuku and then take out Gabe a little later and really own the move and like have

[01:21:12] the credit.

[01:21:12] This way I actually think she might not have as big a move to her name.

[01:21:15] She wants the agency and I think it might be a little bit more passive.

[01:21:18] Um, but the way that Sue was talking about Gabe being her number one, I don't know if

[01:21:22] she would have had Sue to do that at a six or a seven, which would have made that a bit

[01:21:25] tougher.

[01:21:25] So I'm a little bit higher on her just doing it last week and I'm higher on her position

[01:21:29] because she recovers so well.

[01:21:30] She's in this group.

[01:21:31] I think she's got a great shot with this group.

[01:21:34] Um, we know that she's going to have to get through Rachel's idol.

[01:21:36] And I do think that that is a concern, but yeah, taking it down to like a five or a

[01:21:40] four sitting next to Sue and Andy, even a teeny, I think is really good.

[01:21:43] Especially learning the perception of Andy is what we feared.

[01:21:47] I think, um, very high on Caroline this week.

[01:21:50] What did you think about where she's at?

[01:21:53] I like, I've always really liked Caroline.

[01:21:56] I like the way she thinks about the game.

[01:21:58] I love the way that like, when someone says that they found an idol, she's like, yes.

[01:22:02] Or like, she always seems so like happy for the other people.

[01:22:07] It doesn't seem fake.

[01:22:08] It seems.

[01:22:09] No, I don't think so at all.

[01:22:11] And that's funny is I was saying like, I was like, what if Rachel,

[01:22:13] little idols her out?

[01:22:14] And I was like, she'd be like, good job, Rachel.

[01:22:16] Like if that happens and she's on the other end of Rachel's idol,

[01:22:20] she's going to be like, that was such a cool play.

[01:22:21] And she's like carrying her torch over to Jess.

[01:22:23] Yeah.

[01:22:24] Yeah.

[01:22:24] Yeah.

[01:22:24] Navy blinds out on me.

[01:22:26] I love, I love the way she seems just like genuinely happy.

[01:22:30] That's what you want in an ally, right?

[01:22:32] Someone who's like excited for you with what you've got.

[01:22:35] Again, I've been there and people have found out I've had,

[01:22:37] and you see it in their eyes and they're not happy for you.

[01:22:40] And then I've had other people, I've had, I've had, you know,

[01:22:42] other people be like, like genuinely happy.

[01:22:45] And like, you can, there is no hiding that.

[01:22:48] Like, and that's the kind of ally.

[01:22:50] That's when you know someone is truly on board with you when you share

[01:22:53] something and they are like, yes, we can do this.

[01:22:56] We've got this.

[01:22:57] The momentum is coming and I'm with you with it.

[01:23:00] So I love that for her.

[01:23:02] And I think she comes across really genuine.

[01:23:03] And I think that,

[01:23:04] I don't think that what she said to Sue was like really that amazing.

[01:23:08] I think the fact that Sue took her back was just because Caroline is just a

[01:23:11] good person has built those bonds over the whole time.

[01:23:14] Then it's just a little blip you can get over, right?

[01:23:16] That she kind of cashed in the social capital that she had with her across

[01:23:20] the whole game.

[01:23:21] That's what was able to kind of like get her back.

[01:23:23] I think so really good for Caroline there.

[01:23:25] I also really liked that.

[01:23:27] Like her and Sue seemed to really stamp their foot down on getting what they

[01:23:32] wanted, even though I have said that I think that Genevieve should have gone.

[01:23:36] I think that they didn't want it.

[01:23:38] So they stamped their foot down and they didn't let Andy and Rachel kind of

[01:23:41] derail the ship.

[01:23:43] And I also thought that it was important that like Caroline really didn't

[01:23:47] entertain the other option because it's not what Sue wanted.

[01:23:50] And at that moment what was really important is getting Sue to feel 100%

[01:23:54] comfortable with you again after what she had done and not voting with her

[01:23:58] at the last Tribal Council.

[01:23:59] So I think that's all really good.

[01:24:01] My fear for Caroline though is that she is just going to get lost in the

[01:24:05] source in the end game and that she is not going to have anything that is

[01:24:10] going to, and we talk about inherent biases.

[01:24:13] Like I don't think that.

[01:24:14] Yeah, she's in a tough demographic.

[01:24:16] She's in a tough demographic.

[01:24:18] Yeah.

[01:24:18] Yeah.

[01:24:19] And she's going to need something super flashy on her resume to overcome those

[01:24:25] biases, particularly if she is with other people that are not,

[01:24:31] who are considered, you know, rightly or wrongly considered lines.

[01:24:35] So this is why it's so,

[01:24:37] that whole crazy idea I came up with about like Sue and Caroline, you know,

[01:24:42] using the idol and bringing Genevieve in like that,

[01:24:44] that whole thing stemmed from me sitting down at the end of the episode and going,

[01:24:50] what is Caroline and Sue going to do from here?

[01:24:53] Like, like, and then I retroactively said, okay,

[01:24:56] well,

[01:24:56] what could they have done to make sure that the next three or four episodes or

[01:25:00] whatever it is,

[01:25:00] how many are left?

[01:25:01] Are like setting themselves up well.

[01:25:04] So I'm concerned.

[01:25:05] I think for Sue,

[01:25:06] it's like every single thing you suggest for me for Sue to do.

[01:25:09] I'm like, yeah,

[01:25:10] like literally like that.

[01:25:11] Like, should Sue do this?

[01:25:12] Like, yeah,

[01:25:12] she could go home.

[01:25:13] Yes.

[01:25:14] You know,

[01:25:14] because I still think that you're being a bit too like,

[01:25:19] what is bullish to it about?

[01:25:21] Like Caroline's chances.

[01:25:24] Caroline's next to Sue and Andy.

[01:25:26] Or even teeny.

[01:25:27] What does teeny had as well?

[01:25:28] I mean,

[01:25:29] teeny has relationships with the jury.

[01:25:30] So does Caroline.

[01:25:32] Teeny will win.

[01:25:33] I think Caroline over teeny right now.

[01:25:35] Depending.

[01:25:36] Teeny has great relationships.

[01:25:37] I want to talk about teeny as well.

[01:25:40] You know,

[01:25:41] like sit next to Sue and Andy.

[01:25:42] That's what everyone's trying to do.

[01:25:43] Yeah,

[01:25:43] I know.

[01:25:44] But like,

[01:25:44] and not everyone,

[01:25:45] like that's like,

[01:25:46] you're leaving yourself one spot.

[01:25:47] So like you,

[01:25:48] you can only in a,

[01:25:50] in seven,

[01:25:50] let's work out the probabilities on this.

[01:25:52] Like you have one permutation of people that you're going to win against.

[01:25:57] Yeah.

[01:25:58] I don't know.

[01:25:58] That's scary.

[01:25:59] That's scary.

[01:26:00] If you're saying she won't be Rachel or Genevieve or Sam.

[01:26:04] And I think it,

[01:26:05] teeny seems to be a tough.

[01:26:06] I think she could be teeny.

[01:26:07] Now.

[01:26:08] Okay.

[01:26:08] So you're,

[01:26:09] so I disagree.

[01:26:10] And it seems like you changed,

[01:26:12] have changed your mind on that.

[01:26:13] So let's put that as a toss up.

[01:26:15] That means that she can only beat.

[01:26:17] That she can only beat two people.

[01:26:20] And teeny maybe.

[01:26:21] Do not.

[01:26:23] That's not good.

[01:26:24] Two and a half of,

[01:26:25] there's only,

[01:26:25] she's only up against.

[01:26:26] In a final three.

[01:26:29] Yes.

[01:26:29] And I think Rachel's idol is concerning and you know,

[01:26:31] it's fire and all of that.

[01:26:32] It's like,

[01:26:32] there's no way to differentiate,

[01:26:33] make fire.

[01:26:34] People.

[01:26:35] But like,

[01:26:36] you know,

[01:26:36] in a game where it's so hard to get to the end yourself,

[01:26:39] you have to make sure that two other people are the other two with you.

[01:26:43] I don't know.

[01:26:44] Yeah.

[01:26:45] Well,

[01:26:45] this is none of this is a criticism against Caroline,

[01:26:47] by the way.

[01:26:48] None of this.

[01:26:48] Please.

[01:26:49] Please.

[01:26:49] I love Caroline.

[01:26:50] I really do.

[01:26:51] I'm,

[01:26:52] I'm afraid that she will not get the credit that she deserves.

[01:26:57] It's not a criticism.

[01:26:58] It's the duality of the game that Genevieve had,

[01:27:00] you know,

[01:27:00] maybe two weeks ago,

[01:27:01] you know,

[01:27:01] it's like,

[01:27:02] do you want to do the big flashy thing?

[01:27:04] And when do you want to,

[01:27:05] if you want to and poke your head out and then do you get targeted?

[01:27:07] Or would you want to go into the,

[01:27:08] into the safer way,

[01:27:09] but maybe then just have like a stable path to the end.

[01:27:11] And you can give that,

[01:27:13] that story at the end.

[01:27:15] Yeah.

[01:27:15] Because I do think that I,

[01:27:16] I wanted Caroline to do that too,

[01:27:18] Nick last week.

[01:27:18] I said that Caroline should have got them all together to take out a

[01:27:21] Rachel or a Sam,

[01:27:22] then take out a Genevieve,

[01:27:24] then go through and then start taking up,

[01:27:25] hopefully with Sue.

[01:27:26] And again,

[01:27:26] I don't know that Sue does that.

[01:27:28] So now I'm concerned,

[01:27:28] but like if she could have done that,

[01:27:30] then take out the games and the cars.

[01:27:31] Now she's run the whole game and she's definitely going to win,

[01:27:33] but she still has shields in front of her.

[01:27:34] That's what I wanted her to do.

[01:27:36] But with the concerns about Sue and with the situation that she is in

[01:27:40] now,

[01:27:40] I think ironically,

[01:27:41] it will be a more passive path because she said she wanted to take the

[01:27:44] game into her own hands,

[01:27:45] but I still see that there's a pathway.

[01:27:47] I mean,

[01:27:47] I still,

[01:27:48] yeah.

[01:27:48] I mean,

[01:27:48] I don't think it's as far gone to be like pow powing as much as I've

[01:27:52] just invented.

[01:27:53] Like now that's what I'm like.

[01:27:54] That's what I feel like.

[01:27:55] Like I feel like Sue and,

[01:27:56] and you're in pow pow spots,

[01:27:57] which is just like,

[01:27:58] especially Sue,

[01:27:59] if you have nothing to lose and like,

[01:28:00] you can see you're going to be a good stop.

[01:28:02] Pow powing change rapidly change.

[01:28:05] Radically.

[01:28:05] Does this go back to the thing that.

[01:28:07] But I don't think.

[01:28:09] This goes back to the thing that Jeff said in the first episode.

[01:28:13] It wasn't last season that like one of you right now doesn't realize

[01:28:16] that you can't win.

[01:28:18] Isn't that what he said?

[01:28:19] Yeah.

[01:28:20] And from the beginning,

[01:28:20] I think that's crazy,

[01:28:21] but I do think at this point,

[01:28:24] that's the problem that you don't know that you can't win.

[01:28:27] Well,

[01:28:27] I think especially.

[01:28:28] So hard.

[01:28:29] If Sue and Andy were thinking that,

[01:28:31] then they would still have the time to change it.

[01:28:32] As I said,

[01:28:32] Marianne did that at six,

[01:28:34] but they have to know to that.

[01:28:36] They need to,

[01:28:37] to want to change it.

[01:28:39] And I think that they're in that spot.

[01:28:40] I don't think that it's,

[01:28:41] it's at that point for Caroline,

[01:28:45] but yeah.

[01:28:46] And it's another thing that I think is really hard is because a lot of the

[01:28:50] new era meta is about being an underdog and then taking out the big bad

[01:28:54] and then getting credit for it.

[01:28:55] You know,

[01:28:55] they gave,

[01:28:55] gave the credit on Jesse on fire.

[01:28:58] They gave obviously Marianne,

[01:28:59] like very deserved credit on Oma.

[01:29:00] Like this is such a big part of the way the new era can be played.

[01:29:04] But when everyone wants to take out the big threats,

[01:29:06] who's going to get credit for that?

[01:29:07] You know,

[01:29:08] like fighting over who does Sue get Kyle credit.

[01:29:09] Cause she's loudly said it even probably to a detriment and like a bad

[01:29:12] perception.

[01:29:13] Would Andy get Genevieve?

[01:29:14] Everyone wants Genevieve like preaching to the choir.

[01:29:17] And when you can't individually take that move,

[01:29:19] it's very,

[01:29:19] very hard to get credit.

[01:29:20] So if this whole five are going to kind of like passively go down to five

[01:29:23] because it makes so much sense for all of them,

[01:29:25] none of them will get credit.

[01:29:27] And as I said,

[01:29:27] they'll all though,

[01:29:29] but they will be sitting next to other people who have the credit and then

[01:29:31] they'll have to argue it better.

[01:29:32] And then it will just be.

[01:29:33] Maybe it'll be a bit close.

[01:29:35] So yeah.

[01:29:35] Sounds like you're advocating for my Sue and Caroline.

[01:29:39] Idle out.

[01:29:39] No,

[01:29:40] I want Genevieve plan for those two to differentiate from the five.

[01:29:45] I think it's very,

[01:29:46] then they're never going to get to the five.

[01:29:48] It's like a good idea,

[01:29:49] doesn't it?

[01:29:49] No,

[01:29:50] no,

[01:29:50] because then they won't get to the five one B.

[01:29:52] Then they're going to keep in people who will beat them anyway.

[01:29:54] Like a Genevieve.

[01:29:54] Those people do need to go.

[01:29:55] No,

[01:29:56] you get rid of Kyle.

[01:29:56] You get what you wanted.

[01:29:59] Get rid of Genevieve next week.

[01:30:00] It does not change the order of who was going home that night.

[01:30:03] You get what you want.

[01:30:05] But Nick,

[01:30:05] it's fan fiction.

[01:30:07] Come on!

[01:30:07] They all voted for Kyle.

[01:30:09] You can't save Genevieve when it's unanimously on Kyle.

[01:30:12] You've got an idol.

[01:30:14] You don't need,

[01:30:14] you don't need,

[01:30:15] like save her for what?

[01:30:16] One vote,

[01:30:17] split vote for your own people that are,

[01:30:19] that has been,

[01:30:20] you know,

[01:30:21] protecting her.

[01:30:21] They wanted to vote on Kyle.

[01:30:22] You can't save Genevieve when Kyle is the target.

[01:30:24] You'd have to change everyone to Genevieve and then save her,

[01:30:26] which is crazy.

[01:30:28] It's great.

[01:30:30] Anyway.

[01:30:31] No,

[01:30:31] they're all,

[01:30:32] Kyle was the target.

[01:30:33] Believe me,

[01:30:33] it was,

[01:30:34] I'm sure Kyle was even more of the target than the show wanted us to believe.

[01:30:37] If Sue wanted to do it,

[01:30:39] she could have convinced Caroline and said,

[01:30:41] you didn't vote with me last week.

[01:30:42] Do this for me.

[01:30:43] We're going to vote for Genevieve.

[01:30:45] No,

[01:30:46] to,

[01:30:46] to,

[01:30:47] to play,

[01:30:48] we're going to do this idol thing and we're going to vote out Kyle.

[01:30:51] They're voting on Kyle anyway.

[01:30:53] Anyway,

[01:30:53] anyway,

[01:30:54] don't worry.

[01:30:54] I don't know.

[01:30:55] Don't worry.

[01:30:55] This was,

[01:30:56] this was,

[01:30:56] this was kind of dry.

[01:30:58] I'm telling you when Rachel's like,

[01:31:00] we've been talking about everyone.

[01:31:01] I'm like,

[01:31:01] I think Kyle was gone anyway.

[01:31:04] Before the Tuesday,

[01:31:04] one last thing,

[01:31:05] teeny.

[01:31:06] We haven't spoken all about teeny thoughts and feelings on teeny.

[01:31:09] I love teeny.

[01:31:11] I love her face.

[01:31:11] The way she says,

[01:31:12] so seems positive and happy,

[01:31:14] even when things seem so like die for her.

[01:31:16] I think she's someone who,

[01:31:18] I think she's like thriving out there from like a standpoint of like making

[01:31:24] social connections.

[01:31:26] I do like this running gag where like everyone who she's close with ends up

[01:31:30] going,

[01:31:31] that must feel awful,

[01:31:33] but it is kind of have an interesting wrinkle for her.

[01:31:36] I don't know.

[01:31:37] I really like her.

[01:31:38] I really like her.

[01:31:39] I wish for more for her in the game than she has been,

[01:31:43] than she is getting.

[01:31:45] I,

[01:31:46] I thought this was a pretty good episode.

[01:31:48] One of the big things for me was that Andy in my,

[01:31:51] like the concerning montages that Andy tells us he's running the game,

[01:31:54] but no one else confirms it.

[01:31:56] Andy says the threats.

[01:31:58] I have the biggest like relationship with the threats.

[01:32:01] And then the threats actually coming for Andy and they go to teeny.

[01:32:03] Rachel as well.

[01:32:04] Genevieve comes to Rachel,

[01:32:05] but like,

[01:32:06] they were like,

[01:32:06] we really need you teeny.

[01:32:07] So I thought that that showed like pretty good positioning from teeny.

[01:32:10] Teeny,

[01:32:10] I think is in a good spot with this group.

[01:32:12] So yeah,

[01:32:13] I think that things are turning around for teeny,

[01:32:15] but it's just not in as dramatic a way as you'd like considering how low

[01:32:18] it's been,

[01:32:18] but it's like the game has opened up and they all,

[01:32:21] they all know that the thing is like teeny is a good part of like putting the

[01:32:24] five together,

[01:32:25] but they all are like,

[01:32:26] they're all in the well conversation,

[01:32:27] which might be like the scene we all look back on when like the final five

[01:32:30] make their group and then like go to the final five,

[01:32:32] maybe give them kind of my chickens.

[01:32:33] But like,

[01:32:34] if that's the thing,

[01:32:35] then that seems going to be very important,

[01:32:36] but like everyone was good there because they're all just so mutually

[01:32:38] incentivized and like all savvy enough to know it or sweat and savvy

[01:32:41] enough to know it.

[01:32:42] What I liked about from teeny this episode is when they came to,

[01:32:47] it was a Sam and Genevieve come to her about,

[01:32:51] Hey,

[01:32:51] we should vote for Andy or whatever.

[01:32:53] She was just like,

[01:32:53] no,

[01:32:54] she was just like,

[01:32:55] Yeah.

[01:32:55] Now,

[01:32:57] now I think that is good because she shouldn't have been voting for Andy.

[01:33:03] I think they should have done something else as I've already mentioned,

[01:33:05] but like what I really liked about it is that like,

[01:33:07] there are so many of those fake conversations,

[01:33:10] right.

[01:33:10] That you have on survivor that is like,

[01:33:12] yeah,

[01:33:12] let's do this.

[01:33:12] Oh yeah,

[01:33:12] let's do that.

[01:33:14] That like sometimes even though that's not the answer you want,

[01:33:18] it's refreshing that someone is willing to just be honest with you and say,

[01:33:23] no,

[01:33:24] that's not happening.

[01:33:25] You know,

[01:33:26] like it's this weird kind of like,

[01:33:27] again,

[01:33:28] you go all the way around to come back that like someone not doing what you

[01:33:30] want in actual fact,

[01:33:32] sometimes can show that you have a trustworthy relationship with them,

[01:33:35] that they're willing to have that.

[01:33:36] So like while the door was closed tonight,

[01:33:39] maybe it shows potential to work in the future.

[01:33:43] I don't know,

[01:33:44] but whatever it is,

[01:33:44] I like that she was like standing in her power enough to be,

[01:33:50] have agency and just say,

[01:33:51] no,

[01:33:52] I'm not doing that.

[01:33:52] No.

[01:33:53] Yeah.

[01:33:53] It was a funny scene because they were like,

[01:33:55] we can't do without you.

[01:33:56] And he was like,

[01:33:57] good.

[01:33:59] Yeah.

[01:34:00] And that is my preference.

[01:34:01] So yeah,

[01:34:02] I mean,

[01:34:02] I think teeny is an interesting spot.

[01:34:04] I will say for the quote unquote underdog allies,

[01:34:06] we're getting a lot of tweets.

[01:34:07] I don't know what permeated about like how they're the underdogs.

[01:34:09] If they have the majority,

[01:34:10] they are the underdogs because they will lose to the overdogs at the end.

[01:34:13] That's what makes them the underdogs.

[01:34:14] Like if you,

[01:34:15] if you want it,

[01:34:15] like this is the way,

[01:34:16] and this is what I've always said.

[01:34:17] This is actually what I've always said of how to play survivor.

[01:34:19] You should make a hierarchy of who the jury will vote for,

[01:34:23] which is so hard to do,

[01:34:24] but in a perfect world where you have the information of who's most likely to

[01:34:26] get the votes,

[01:34:27] put them in an order and then vote out the people on top of you.

[01:34:30] That survivor.

[01:34:30] It's very hard to do,

[01:34:32] but like they're the ones doing it.

[01:34:34] So that makes them the underdogs because you don't want to go to the end

[01:34:36] with the Genevieve and Sam and a Kyle.

[01:34:40] So that's where they're at.

[01:34:41] I also had one last thing before the Chizzy.

[01:34:44] Jeff says that the five time immunity challenge winners half have lost,

[01:34:49] but you know,

[01:34:49] it was there's six,

[01:34:50] there's six people who did it and four have lost.

[01:34:53] Most of them actually do lose at the end.

[01:34:55] I don't think that would have been Kyle.

[01:34:56] People loved Kyle,

[01:34:57] but was he saying that they lose as in,

[01:35:00] they don't win the game or they lose the final trial,

[01:35:02] lose the game.

[01:35:03] And he said,

[01:35:03] maybe not even make it to the end.

[01:35:05] So it's like Mike Holloway won the game.

[01:35:06] Tom Westman won the game.

[01:35:07] Then I think it's Aussie loses at the end.

[01:35:10] Colby loses at the end,

[01:35:11] Brad Culpepper.

[01:35:12] That's the one that you forget loses at the end and Terry.

[01:35:17] He was didn't make it to the end.

[01:35:19] Yeah.

[01:35:20] It's quite interesting.

[01:35:24] It's quite interesting that some of them actually do get to the end.

[01:35:28] And not get the votes.

[01:35:29] Like mostly.

[01:35:30] Yeah.

[01:35:30] Half of them literally did.

[01:35:32] That's a good stat.

[01:35:32] That's the season where Aussie did that.

[01:35:34] Brad Culpepper lost in the end of game changes and Colby lost at the end.

[01:35:38] That's a good stat.

[01:35:39] That's an interesting stat because it goes so.

[01:35:43] Kind of proves.

[01:35:44] What do you think?

[01:35:45] Proves my point about going to ruin Trinity,

[01:35:46] doesn't it?

[01:35:47] No.

[01:35:49] Kyle's not in that archetype though,

[01:35:50] because people did want to vote for Kyle.

[01:35:53] What?

[01:35:53] You were saying people didn't want to vote for Colby?

[01:35:55] Colby's a whole thing.

[01:35:56] I can't,

[01:35:57] I don't even know.

[01:35:57] I can't go back and do litigate the whole Australian outback of it all.

[01:36:02] But yeah,

[01:36:03] I mean,

[01:36:03] three people did vote for Colby.

[01:36:04] Three of seven.

[01:36:04] He got pretty close.

[01:36:05] So did Aussie actually.

[01:36:07] Yeah.

[01:36:08] How many votes did Brad Culpepper get?

[01:36:10] One?

[01:36:11] Did he get one?

[01:36:12] No,

[01:36:12] I think he got more than that.

[01:36:15] Okay.

[01:36:15] I'm going to play the Chizzy theme song.

[01:36:16] And in that time,

[01:36:17] I'm going to look up how many votes Brad Culpepper got.

[01:36:19] All right.

[01:36:20] Take it away.

[01:36:20] Jacob Sager-Wine theme and MC Color.

[01:36:23] One,

[01:36:23] two,

[01:36:24] three.

[01:36:25] One,

[01:36:25] one,

[01:36:26] one,

[01:36:26] three,

[01:36:27] one,

[01:36:27] one,

[01:36:28] two,

[01:36:28] three.

[01:36:28] It's getting,

[01:36:29] it's getting,

[01:36:29] it's getting kind of chizzy.

[01:36:30] Three,

[01:36:31] two,

[01:36:31] one.

[01:36:33] Here's a Chizzy.

[01:36:34] I couldn't look it up in time.

[01:36:35] Nick,

[01:36:35] do you have Chizzy points?

[01:36:37] I do have Chizzy points.

[01:36:38] I'll give my Chizzy points while you look it up.

[01:36:41] Okay.

[01:36:42] Chizzy point.

[01:36:44] Did you get it?

[01:36:46] No,

[01:36:47] I'll just say my Chizzy points.

[01:36:48] Oh,

[01:36:48] it was three votes.

[01:36:49] Sierra,

[01:36:50] Debbie and Ozzy.

[01:36:52] Seven to three to zero.

[01:36:54] There you go.

[01:36:56] Okay.

[01:36:57] Chizzy points.

[01:36:58] I'm going to give three points to Rachel.

[01:37:00] I feel like she got,

[01:37:02] had such a great episode,

[01:37:03] not just with the,

[01:37:04] the fact that she got a trinket and one and idols.

[01:37:08] It was just the,

[01:37:08] the way she got herself there.

[01:37:10] And we've already covered that with her getting to the,

[01:37:12] putting herself up for the barge.

[01:37:14] And also the fact that a few weeks ago,

[01:37:16] she was this big threat yet.

[01:37:17] She's not considered one of the lines or the,

[01:37:20] one of the top three.

[01:37:20] So that's amazing.

[01:37:21] Three to Rachel.

[01:37:22] I'm going to give two to Caroline for mending her relationship with Sue

[01:37:26] because of the backstory of how much,

[01:37:30] how good she has been in terms of cultivating that relationship,

[01:37:34] that like doing something so distrustful was able to be kind of

[01:37:37] mitigated against.

[01:37:39] And I'm going to give one point to Genevieve.

[01:37:42] Okay.

[01:37:43] I'm going to give one point to Genevieve because I truly believe that she

[01:37:46] is the biggest threat.

[01:37:47] And as I've said,

[01:37:48] the whole podcast ad nauseam,

[01:37:50] I think that she is the biggest threat.

[01:37:52] And because of that,

[01:37:54] I give her a point for surviving yet again.

[01:37:58] That's like two votes that she survived.

[01:38:01] So I,

[01:38:02] I have faith in Genevieve.

[01:38:05] Those are my points.

[01:38:06] There's no faith than I do in Genevieve.

[01:38:08] I mean,

[01:38:08] not in Genevieve,

[01:38:09] but in Genevieve's chances in this game,

[01:38:10] I do love Genevieve as a player.

[01:38:13] For me with Genevieve,

[01:38:14] you know,

[01:38:15] when she took out soul and I was so high on it,

[01:38:16] I thought every week that Genevieve survives,

[01:38:18] I would give her chizzy points for just being there because she shouldn't be,

[01:38:20] but I didn't expect it to go this way where.

[01:38:24] So long.

[01:38:25] Well,

[01:38:25] no,

[01:38:26] it's just more like she's surviving.

[01:38:27] I think because Gabe slash Tuku last week were a more pressing threat and Kyle with the challenges.

[01:38:34] Statistically,

[01:38:34] you can look at it,

[01:38:35] but also I think makes a lot of sense.

[01:38:37] So it's not.

[01:38:38] She's mitigating that threat that that's,

[01:38:40] that isn't that part of it that she's mitigating the threat to be.

[01:38:43] She is.

[01:38:44] I mean,

[01:38:44] I think she does do it subtly.

[01:38:46] Like we saw be like,

[01:38:47] I would vote for Kyle.

[01:38:49] And I,

[01:38:49] and I also really liked the goat killing strategy,

[01:38:51] even though it didn't work.

[01:38:52] That the kind of all the threats we're talking about,

[01:38:54] like working together and she really drives that.

[01:38:55] But I just think that there's not enough agency.

[01:39:00] Like last week,

[01:39:00] for sure.

[01:39:00] If she turns it around with Tuku,

[01:39:02] I would have been like,

[01:39:03] that's a move for her because it puts her fate into her own hands.

[01:39:06] Ironically,

[01:39:06] Tuku might've taken her out this week,

[01:39:07] but at least last week,

[01:39:09] it wouldn't have been a 50,

[01:39:09] 50,

[01:39:10] you know,

[01:39:10] like every week is just like,

[01:39:11] what are they going to do?

[01:39:12] And everyone else decides her fate.

[01:39:14] And I don't know how much she's putting her thumb on that scale.

[01:39:16] Like,

[01:39:16] I think they're making decisions that make sense for them.

[01:39:19] And I agree with those decisions.

[01:39:20] And it's just Genevieve isn't the most pressing target right now because she's been so

[01:39:24] depowered because she's,

[01:39:25] you know,

[01:39:26] broke in a social capital sense.

[01:39:28] And she's been like,

[01:39:28] she's like,

[01:39:29] she's been like space jammed.

[01:39:31] That's what it feels like.

[01:39:32] So they took her basketball skills and she's on the court.

[01:39:35] Like,

[01:39:36] you know,

[01:39:37] like that's her power.

[01:39:38] Whereas like cars can salute the challenges.

[01:39:39] That's how I feel about it.

[01:39:41] Cause I can't give a point to Genevieve,

[01:39:42] but I do,

[01:39:43] you know,

[01:39:43] if she can finally get a run where I feel like it's more in her hands,

[01:39:46] I'd love to give her points again.

[01:39:47] Um,

[01:39:48] but I'm going to,

[01:39:49] you know,

[01:39:49] stay pretty similar to you on the first two.

[01:39:51] Rachel,

[01:39:52] obviously we'll get three huge episode for Rachel.

[01:39:55] No notes.

[01:39:56] Um,

[01:39:57] no notes.

[01:39:57] Great.

[01:39:58] Loved her coming back with people.

[01:39:59] Um,

[01:40:00] and,

[01:40:00] and telling them loved her putting her hand up,

[01:40:02] you know,

[01:40:03] like a puzzle hates to see Rachel coming as well.

[01:40:05] Like never in doubt for her,

[01:40:07] like having to get the puzzle done.

[01:40:08] I think that she's exceptional at that.

[01:40:10] Um,

[01:40:11] so three points for her,

[01:40:11] two points for Caroline,

[01:40:13] much higher in her chances than I was last week.

[01:40:15] Last week I said,

[01:40:16] I could only see in this order,

[01:40:18] Rachel,

[01:40:18] Teenie,

[01:40:18] Andy winning the game.

[01:40:20] Now I'm like Rachel,

[01:40:22] Caroline and Teenie together.

[01:40:23] It was a great edit for Caroline this episode.

[01:40:25] Now Andy's hugely fallen.

[01:40:27] Um,

[01:40:28] so Caroline's like way up,

[01:40:29] um,

[01:40:30] from a story perspective,

[01:40:30] from a game perspective,

[01:40:31] I see the pathway a lot more.

[01:40:34] I thought the recovery was excellent.

[01:40:36] I even see parts of last week's move a little bit more,

[01:40:39] even though I still disagree.

[01:40:40] I'm maybe more like 70,

[01:40:42] 30 when I was all the way out on it last week.

[01:40:44] Um,

[01:40:45] so yeah,

[01:40:45] two points for Caroline there.

[01:40:47] And then I really went back and forth on the one between Teenie,

[01:40:51] who I think is in a great spot.

[01:40:53] This five makes so much sense for Teenie well connected across the board.

[01:40:56] Again,

[01:40:56] it's the Teeniex rising from the ashes is,

[01:40:59] is a little bit more subtle than maybe we'd like,

[01:41:01] but it's happening.

[01:41:01] It's a slow burn.

[01:41:03] Um,

[01:41:04] and then Sue,

[01:41:05] who I thought,

[01:41:06] you know,

[01:41:06] responded to Caroline really well,

[01:41:08] you know,

[01:41:08] Sue,

[01:41:09] who's been so emotional,

[01:41:10] actually came back with Caroline in a really great way,

[01:41:12] responded so well to Rachel,

[01:41:13] gave that information back to really bond with Rachel.

[01:41:15] Um,

[01:41:16] so I really thought about it from both of their perspectives.

[01:41:18] I think that Sue,

[01:41:20] I'm just like,

[01:41:20] and also does get Kyle,

[01:41:22] does get the win over Kyle,

[01:41:23] but like just how focused she was on Kyle this whole time.

[01:41:26] It was like blocked up.

[01:41:26] I think her whole game in a way that wasn't optimal,

[01:41:29] wasn't super strategic,

[01:41:30] was highly emotional and doomed to go.

[01:41:34] So she's still dealing with the fallout of that.

[01:41:35] I think it's a harder road for her.

[01:41:36] Whereas teeny,

[01:41:37] I think is in a path that could very much still be a winning game.

[01:41:40] So I gave the point to teeny.

[01:41:42] I apologize to great friend of the podcast,

[01:41:43] Domenica,

[01:41:44] who really wanted me to give this point to Sue and made great arguments for it.

[01:41:47] But I feel like teeny is in the spot,

[01:41:50] um,

[01:41:51] that I think makes more sense and is well connected.

[01:41:53] So the charts now,

[01:41:54] Genevieve's on 22 at the top of the charts.

[01:41:57] So we're not 18.

[01:41:58] Sam is on 16.

[01:42:00] Andy's on 14.

[01:42:01] Now we have Rachel up to 13.

[01:42:03] Tees up to 13.

[01:42:04] Caroline's up to 11.

[01:42:06] Sue is on nine.

[01:42:07] And now everyone else through the rest of the chance has gone actually.

[01:42:11] So,

[01:42:11] I mean,

[01:42:11] it's sold and all the people kind of now getting high up in,

[01:42:14] in the,

[01:42:14] the chizzy charts are still in the game because then Rome left on seven.

[01:42:18] Gabe left on four.

[01:42:19] Carl was on three when he left.

[01:42:20] And Tiana and Asia on one.

[01:42:21] And those are the charts.

[01:42:23] That's it.

[01:42:24] Why is Gabe's pile taller than Rome's?

[01:42:27] Because he's on top of the,

[01:42:30] there's a,

[01:42:30] these are the great charts.

[01:42:31] There's a brand new people does these every week,

[01:42:32] put them on Twitter,

[01:42:34] blue sky.

[01:42:34] Um,

[01:42:36] but yes,

[01:42:36] what it is,

[01:42:37] is that they're in their graph and Gabe is on top and all those people

[01:42:40] can't fit in their graphs.

[01:42:44] Do you feel what I mean?

[01:42:46] No.

[01:42:47] Look,

[01:42:48] Genevieve's in her graph.

[01:42:51] Oh,

[01:42:52] the picture is in the graph.

[01:42:54] Gotcha.

[01:42:54] But Gabe can't fit in his graph.

[01:42:56] So Gabe and everyone below Gabe can't.

[01:42:57] So they're above their graph.

[01:42:59] Right.

[01:42:59] So it's where the numbers.

[01:43:00] Good job,

[01:43:00] Randy.

[01:43:01] Yes.

[01:43:02] Thank you so much,

[01:43:03] Randy,

[01:43:03] for the charts.

[01:43:04] And that's where we're at.

[01:43:05] We had a question.

[01:43:06] It was more true of last week,

[01:43:07] but this is permeated a little bit.

[01:43:09] I don't know how much this got to you.

[01:43:10] Jill asked as an English teacher,

[01:43:12] Nick shot in the dark or shots in the dark.

[01:43:18] Plural.

[01:43:20] Depends.

[01:43:20] Use it for me in a sentence.

[01:43:21] Like what,

[01:43:22] like as in the,

[01:43:23] yeah,

[01:43:23] we're just naming the,

[01:43:24] the,

[01:43:24] the,

[01:43:25] we all gave up our shots in the dark.

[01:43:26] We all gave up our shot in the dark.

[01:43:28] Shot in the dark.

[01:43:30] Shots in the dark.

[01:43:31] We all gave up our shot in the dark.

[01:43:35] We all gave up our immunity idol.

[01:43:37] We all gave up our immunity idols.

[01:43:43] Okay,

[01:43:44] fine.

[01:43:44] With three people played their shot in the dark.

[01:43:47] They're idols.

[01:43:48] Shot in the dark.

[01:43:49] Okay.

[01:43:49] Yeah.

[01:43:50] Yeah.

[01:43:50] Yeah.

[01:43:51] Okay.

[01:43:51] Okay.

[01:43:52] Cause this is in the debate.

[01:43:53] Shot in the dark.

[01:43:55] Why?

[01:43:56] Cause okay.

[01:43:57] Josh Kettles is going to be so excited.

[01:43:58] He,

[01:43:58] I say he's the leader from the dark.

[01:44:00] He has game shot in the dark so hard and he's the leader of it.

[01:44:03] And he says it's shot in the dark.

[01:44:04] So,

[01:44:05] and it does sound so bad.

[01:44:07] Because,

[01:44:08] so this is my thought that when you,

[01:44:13] like,

[01:44:13] cause you can hyphenate it shot half like dash in dash dark,

[01:44:17] the dark,

[01:44:18] shot in the dark.

[01:44:19] That's the,

[01:44:19] a noun.

[01:44:20] That's a noun.

[01:44:20] It's called a noun group.

[01:44:22] Right.

[01:44:23] It's got the modifier in it.

[01:44:24] The adjective that there is the noun,

[01:44:29] not the shot.

[01:44:30] Yeah.

[01:44:30] That is what it is.

[01:44:31] And because it's a noun group.

[01:44:33] Josh explained it to me and he is,

[01:44:33] it's,

[01:44:34] this is right.

[01:44:34] Yeah.

[01:44:35] It's called a noun group.

[01:44:36] Yeah.

[01:44:36] I've just did this with my sevens this week,

[01:44:38] actually.

[01:44:38] So that's where we're at.

[01:44:40] We're out on grammar and math.

[01:44:41] We're doing great.

[01:44:43] Shot in the dark.

[01:44:44] Yeah.

[01:44:44] Yeah.

[01:44:45] Good.

[01:44:45] Is there a non Julia Roberts of grammar?

[01:44:49] Same thing,

[01:44:50] but it's just like,

[01:44:51] you know,

[01:44:52] apostrophes.

[01:44:52] That's good.

[01:44:53] I mean,

[01:44:53] yeah,

[01:44:53] it is.

[01:44:54] I think it is that because you never,

[01:44:55] you don't play your shot.

[01:44:56] You play your shot in the dark.

[01:44:56] So it's the whole thing.

[01:44:57] It's not like mothers in law where it's like on the,

[01:45:00] but it's like,

[01:45:01] it's like saying,

[01:45:02] it's kind of like how,

[01:45:03] like,

[01:45:05] like how you can put like a,

[01:45:06] like to make a noun,

[01:45:07] like well,

[01:45:07] well connected.

[01:45:09] Oh no,

[01:45:09] that's not,

[01:45:10] that's not a good example.

[01:45:10] I can't think of the other example,

[01:45:12] but there is like,

[01:45:12] when you,

[01:45:13] and you want to make like a noun with like,

[01:45:14] you can put the dash and it,

[01:45:16] the,

[01:45:17] the,

[01:45:17] it creates one singular noun group.

[01:45:20] And everything within that acts as one block.

[01:45:24] So yeah.

[01:45:24] But wait,

[01:45:25] and I'm thinking about it.

[01:45:26] Is it like,

[01:45:26] if I were to say they're my sisters in law,

[01:45:28] sister in laws,

[01:45:30] that's similar.

[01:45:32] Sister.

[01:45:32] No,

[01:45:32] I would say sisters in law.

[01:45:34] No,

[01:45:34] that's not right though.

[01:45:36] Yeah.

[01:45:36] Because they're not my sister.

[01:45:37] They're my sister.

[01:45:37] But no,

[01:45:38] that sounds terrible.

[01:45:38] I'm back on shots in the dark.

[01:45:40] No,

[01:45:42] you've just proven that it is exactly sister in law.

[01:45:45] Yeah.

[01:45:46] And it sounds awful.

[01:45:47] I have one sister in law,

[01:45:48] two sister in laws.

[01:45:50] Oh,

[01:45:50] it's awful.

[01:45:51] Oh,

[01:45:52] the English language is bad.

[01:45:53] That's not right.

[01:45:54] Yeah,

[01:45:54] that's true.

[01:45:56] Okay.

[01:45:56] Yeah.

[01:45:56] Next question.

[01:45:58] No,

[01:45:58] I will.

[01:45:58] That was the only question I had.

[01:46:00] I'm sorry.

[01:46:01] That was the only question?

[01:46:02] I want to be on both of the questions.

[01:46:03] We answered the questions.

[01:46:04] We answered about Genevieve's emotionality and about,

[01:46:07] well,

[01:46:07] who's your winner pick right now,

[01:46:08] Nick?

[01:46:08] What's,

[01:46:08] where do you think is going to go?

[01:46:11] Who's my winner pick?

[01:46:12] Yeah.

[01:46:12] Who's your,

[01:46:12] who's what's the,

[01:46:13] who,

[01:46:13] who,

[01:46:13] what's your percentages?

[01:46:15] Who do you see at the top of the food chain?

[01:46:19] Well,

[01:46:19] bad to be the food at the top of the food chain.

[01:46:21] Who's the winner?

[01:46:21] Well,

[01:46:22] I want Genevieve to win.

[01:46:23] And then after Genevieve,

[01:46:24] I want Caroline to win.

[01:46:26] And then I want Andy to win.

[01:46:28] So those are the three people that I want to win.

[01:46:29] Who do I think will win?

[01:46:31] I think Teenie might win.

[01:46:33] So then how can you say that?

[01:46:35] Because you were talking about Teenie versus Caroline.

[01:46:37] I don't think Caroline's going to get to the end.

[01:46:40] Okay.

[01:46:40] I think Caroline has bought herself a ticket to that kind of four,

[01:46:45] four,

[01:46:45] five spot,

[01:46:46] which is devastating.

[01:46:50] That's just fire.

[01:46:52] At four,

[01:46:53] it's just fire.

[01:46:54] Still not a million dollars.

[01:46:56] What's for some?

[01:46:58] Can be,

[01:46:59] unfortunately.

[01:47:00] I don't know.

[01:47:01] I don't,

[01:47:01] I don't,

[01:47:02] I don't see it.

[01:47:03] I think Teenie is going to win.

[01:47:04] Yeah.

[01:47:04] May asked,

[01:47:05] who are you?

[01:47:05] Winnipeg's.

[01:47:06] How can you say Teenie?

[01:47:07] What about,

[01:47:07] what about Rachel?

[01:47:08] It's clearly Rachel.

[01:47:10] I think that the threat will get too high.

[01:47:12] I think that of the rest of them,

[01:47:15] the people that are left,

[01:47:16] I think that her threat will become so big because of all the things.

[01:47:21] She just needs to play one idol.

[01:47:22] And then it's like,

[01:47:22] Oh,

[01:47:22] and she's got an idol,

[01:47:24] you know?

[01:47:24] And then it's,

[01:47:25] you know,

[01:47:25] I could see it.

[01:47:26] I could definitely see it.

[01:47:28] I actually also want Rachel to win.

[01:47:29] I forgot her in the other previous list.

[01:47:31] I could,

[01:47:31] but I,

[01:47:32] I'm not convinced.

[01:47:34] I think that she's going to be our fallen angel.

[01:47:36] The one who was like,

[01:47:37] she almost.

[01:47:38] Don't.

[01:47:38] Don't.

[01:47:40] Cause Rachel is my draft pick.

[01:47:41] I don't know if this permeated,

[01:47:42] but I haven't won the draft and I need Rachel to make my sanity.

[01:47:46] Is she your only person left?

[01:47:48] Yeah.

[01:47:48] I had TK and Keyshawn.

[01:47:51] It didn't start well,

[01:47:52] but it could end very well.

[01:47:54] And I really need to know how to go.

[01:47:55] But don't you have like a really high percentage of like.

[01:47:58] Yeah.

[01:47:58] There's an average draft placement.

[01:47:59] I do.

[01:47:59] Not this season.

[01:48:01] This season's my second worst average draft placement,

[01:48:04] but I could win,

[01:48:04] but I don't know if I should pre-order my tiara.

[01:48:07] Yeah.

[01:48:08] Don't pre-order your tiara.

[01:48:10] You think that that would be too cocky?

[01:48:12] Yes.

[01:48:13] But I want to be able to wear it on the night if she wins.

[01:48:16] And it's like shipping might take a lot to get here.

[01:48:18] I think if you pre-order your tiara,

[01:48:19] you've signed her.

[01:48:20] She'll definitely lose.

[01:48:23] We'll see how it goes.

[01:48:24] It's like when I make someone my winner pick.

[01:48:26] Like it's just.

[01:48:28] We'll see how it goes.

[01:48:29] I'm going to curse her in the past.

[01:48:31] If I order my tiara.

[01:48:33] I might do it.

[01:48:35] We'll see how,

[01:48:35] we'll see how the next couple of weeks go.

[01:48:37] But.

[01:48:37] we know.

[01:48:37] Cause we will know.

[01:48:38] Cause if you have a tiara on,

[01:48:40] we'll know that you gambled with her life.

[01:48:42] Just to have a shot of you with a tiara.

[01:48:45] Yeah.

[01:48:45] Not,

[01:48:45] not a,

[01:48:46] not a shots plural.

[01:48:47] Just shot in the darks.

[01:48:50] But.

[01:48:51] All right,

[01:48:52] fine.

[01:48:52] I won't.

[01:48:53] You know,

[01:48:53] if someone sends me a tiara,

[01:48:55] how would they get my address?

[01:48:56] I'm open to gifts.

[01:48:57] I'm open to receiving tiaras.

[01:49:00] I don't want to curse Rachel.

[01:49:01] Guys.

[01:49:01] It's so she can now say someone sent it to her.

[01:49:03] Yeah.

[01:49:05] 100%.

[01:49:05] 100%.

[01:49:06] It's fine.

[01:49:07] It's fine.

[01:49:07] I'm going to do,

[01:49:08] I'm going to Google closest place to get a tiara.

[01:49:09] And then on the night.

[01:49:15] I wish I was joking.

[01:49:17] I know you're not.

[01:49:18] I know.

[01:49:19] no one could ever question.

[01:49:21] no one could.

[01:49:21] We went to places.

[01:49:22] Was this good?

[01:49:23] Yeah.

[01:49:24] This was great.

[01:49:24] I loved it.

[01:49:25] Thank you.

[01:49:25] But sitting up in this position is for this long is really sore.

[01:49:30] So I kind of need to log off and give my.

[01:49:35] You don't have an appendix.

[01:49:38] Oh,

[01:49:38] it's really sore.

[01:49:39] You can't blame the appendix anymore.

[01:49:41] Blame the appendix.

[01:49:42] All right.

[01:49:42] Well,

[01:49:42] everyone thank on Thanksgiving.

[01:49:44] Thank Nick for coming here a week after he was in hospital for reasons I

[01:49:48] found out about.

[01:49:50] Eventually came here,

[01:49:52] gave his takes,

[01:49:53] his hot idol takes.

[01:49:55] Do you have anything else?

[01:49:56] Are we done?

[01:49:57] No,

[01:49:58] I have nothing,

[01:49:58] but thank you.

[01:49:59] Oh,

[01:50:00] I should plug things.

[01:50:01] Yeah.

[01:50:01] Plug your blue sky.

[01:50:03] Oh yeah.

[01:50:04] I joined blue sky and I like it.

[01:50:06] I think it's really fun and calm and exciting and interesting and people are nice.

[01:50:11] And there's lots of good book content and lots of good nature content and lots of reality TV content.

[01:50:17] And those are the only three things that I really engage with on Instagram.

[01:50:21] Books or social media books and reality TV.

[01:50:24] That's it.

[01:50:25] Yeah.

[01:50:25] And a photo of my cat.

[01:50:26] I've got some good book.

[01:50:28] Can I give some good book recommendations?

[01:50:30] Okay.

[01:50:30] I just,

[01:50:31] I just finished reading two awesome books.

[01:50:33] So I think lots of people need to read.

[01:50:35] I think you need to read horse.

[01:50:36] If you haven't read horse by Geraldine Brooks and life after life by Kate Atkinson.

[01:50:41] Just wanted to throw that out there.

[01:50:42] Two great books.

[01:50:43] Love them.

[01:50:44] Anyway,

[01:50:44] that's all.

[01:50:45] Join me on blue sky.

[01:50:47] Join me on blue sky.

[01:50:48] Join me everywhere.

[01:50:48] You know,

[01:50:48] I put,

[01:50:49] yeah,

[01:50:49] so I put up a photo of my cat on blue sky.

[01:50:50] I got 1100 likes on Twitter.

[01:50:51] I got like 20 likes.

[01:50:54] Why does Twitter hate my cat?

[01:50:56] It was a really cute photo of Angelica.

[01:50:57] Anyway,

[01:50:58] that's happening on blue sky.

[01:51:00] Well,

[01:51:00] yeah,

[01:51:00] that's the worst thing Twitter's ever done.

[01:51:02] It was not validating Angelica enough.

[01:51:05] Blue sky,

[01:51:06] Twitter,

[01:51:07] Instagram.

[01:51:08] We put the chizzy charts up at Shannon Gates.

[01:51:10] Follow me next week.

[01:51:11] I will be here on Nokia,

[01:51:13] but actually ironically,

[01:51:15] really not.

[01:51:15] Well,

[01:51:15] I'll be in this room,

[01:51:16] but in the feed,

[01:51:17] I will be on the after show with Evie while everyone's in Houston.

[01:51:20] So that's what I'm doing next week.

[01:51:21] No global.

[01:51:22] Cause it's the after show.

[01:51:24] Yeah.

[01:51:25] Follow me.

[01:51:26] Subscribe to international spider happens feed.

[01:51:27] Watch us on YouTube,

[01:51:28] all the things.

[01:51:29] Nick,

[01:51:29] thank you so much.

[01:51:29] Thank you for doing videos,

[01:51:31] sitting here.

[01:51:32] Hope your appendix is,

[01:51:33] well,

[01:51:33] not your appendix,

[01:51:34] but the rest of you is okay.

[01:51:36] Thank you so much guys.

[01:51:37] Thanks for listening along.

[01:51:38] And I will be trying to follow along on blue sky.

[01:51:43] Now that I'm back in the world of social media.

[01:51:45] So I look forward to seeing everyone realize that they were wrong to take,

[01:51:48] not take out Genevieve.

[01:51:50] Bye.

[01:51:51] Well,

[01:51:52] thank you everyone.

[01:51:52] Thanks for our team behind the scenes.

[01:51:53] Thank you,

[01:51:54] Nick.

[01:51:54] Thank you everyone for listening.

[01:51:55] Happy Thanksgiving to our American listeners.

[01:51:58] And I will see you on the after show next week.

[01:52:00] Bye.

[01:52:00] Bye.

[01:52:01] Bye.

[01:52:03] Bye.

[01:52:04] Bye.

[01:52:05] Bye.

[01:52:06] Bye.

[01:52:09] Bye.