Survivor Global: Idol Bluffs and The Perception of Rachel | S47 Ep 13 with Nina Twine

[00:00:09] Survivor Survivors

[00:00:13] 21 South African 12 ordinary Australians

[00:00:23] Million Euro

[00:00:25] I did

[00:00:29] Survivor International

[00:00:31] Tri-Svator

[00:00:33] The Adventure of a Life

[00:00:37] Adventure of a Life

[00:00:38] Hello everyone and welcome to IHAP's coverage of Survivor 47 for Survivor Global. I'm your host Shannon Gass, here for what even Jeff called the penultimate episode of this season.

[00:00:47] We might be streaming towards a victory or something I think that would be very surprising and those are the two options.

[00:00:53] And I'm excited to talk about it because there's been a lot of discourse in the community this week and then there is so much to talk about.

[00:01:01] And to do that I have a great guest. She is Survivor Royalty, of course, our own Australian Survivor, US player Nina Twine. Nina, thank you for being here.

[00:01:09] Thank you for having me.

[00:01:10] Yes, I mean, obviously you are a part of Global Survivor as a representative of Australian Survivor.

[00:01:17] And then you recently, spoiler alert, came off winning another reality show. So representing the franchise well.

[00:01:22] How are you doing as a winner of, you know, doing the family proud, winning another reality TV competition?

[00:01:28] Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. I'm doing really well.

[00:01:31] I'm so grateful for everything because without Survivor Australia, I wouldn't be here today.

[00:01:36] I wouldn't have learned the lessons I've learned during my time there and having that support of those who have seen me there and some new support from all of the people who checked out the anonymous.

[00:01:46] It was amazing. So fun. And I'm just so happy to be here.

[00:01:49] Yeah. Well, I mean, even more experience to talk about these players and these people.

[00:01:56] I mean, heading into what is actually the finale, how are you feeling about the season?

[00:02:00] Who are you rooting for? Yeah. How are you feeling about all of it?

[00:02:03] Yeah, I feel great. I have been very interested in this season, especially with all the things going on, as we know, operations, this and that alliances, flipping.

[00:02:13] Everything is chaotic and that's what we love. I've always liked Rachel.

[00:02:19] I see a lot of things that I do in what she's doing or at least the rationale behind it.

[00:02:27] So I really connect with her on that. But I also like Teenie.

[00:02:31] I'm not saying winner pick or not, but just the social game I've always enjoyed.

[00:02:38] Yeah. Well, I mean, Rachel is obviously the woman of the hour, pulls off this idol play and is going to the finale.

[00:02:45] I think it like, you know, usually I do my percentage is going to the finale.

[00:02:48] My percentage is like 90 percent. I think Rachel will win.

[00:02:50] And 10 percent. I think Sam has a chance because I think that if Rachel just wins the immunity challenge,

[00:02:56] which she's also my favorite to do, she will go to the end and beat anyone.

[00:02:58] I think she will beat Sam handily. I don't think she'd need to put herself into fire.

[00:03:02] I think I mean, I've been wrong before.

[00:03:04] I'm wrong until the votes are read with Gabler. But I really think that, you know, Rachel's been such a threat that if you let her get to the end,

[00:03:09] it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. How did you do that?

[00:03:12] She was the big person to be. You didn't do it. I'm going to vote for her.

[00:03:15] So she wins the challenge odds on favorite. She's through.

[00:03:17] Then if she doesn't, she was to fire, which she's apparently odds on favorite for.

[00:03:21] And then if she goes through, she'd beat anyone.

[00:03:23] But in the chance that she loses both, which would be so unfortunate from the position she's in.

[00:03:28] I think Sam will win. So going in 90 percent. Yeah, this is like Rachel's game to lose.

[00:03:33] And I do think that if that happens from from like a TV perspective, then the two part of finale they've done going into a final four.

[00:03:41] No vote in the finale, which they haven't done before with no vote would be pretty unfortunate because it seems locked up.

[00:03:49] I mean, there are other seasons of the new era that I think are probably closer.

[00:03:53] You know, like Erica had an edit. I think we thought she was building to it.

[00:03:56] But like there were question marks around that.

[00:03:58] Not that that's good, but it is true.

[00:04:01] You know, Marianne had Mike.

[00:04:03] 43, obviously, was very surprising.

[00:04:04] The Teeqas were still battling it out.

[00:04:07] So I think we had kind of thought Dee had it.

[00:04:09] And then obviously Kenzie and Charlie was a toss up through the finale.

[00:04:12] So I think for me, it feels done.

[00:04:15] What would the do you think Rachel has it?

[00:04:17] Or do you think Sam could beat her?

[00:04:18] Or like, who do you think has it at this point?

[00:04:20] I definitely think it's one of those two.

[00:04:23] And I'm only saying this from a TV standpoint, this specific part, because not only are they having they've taken the time, as you know, they show everything on Survivor with purpose.

[00:04:34] They have taken up the time to not only show people's telling Rachel, girl, you're going to win.

[00:04:39] But Sam saying, I'm here to win.

[00:04:41] And those were two highlights from this last episode I picked up on.

[00:04:45] And I mainly picked up on it from situations I've been in.

[00:04:48] I've had people tell me like, you're going to win the whole thing.

[00:04:51] And I'm like, what are you talking about?

[00:04:52] Then they show it.

[00:04:53] And I'm like, oh, my God, I know I won.

[00:04:55] So that's crazy.

[00:04:56] And that was really intentional.

[00:04:59] And so it gives us a glimpse into what could happen.

[00:05:02] And like you said, if that doesn't happen, it's going to make me as a viewer be like, couldn't we use, you know, let's just say Teenie or Sue wins or anyone else.

[00:05:11] Couldn't we have used that time to highlight something about them so we can at least connect with them more or at least have a want to root for them.

[00:05:19] So I definitely agree with you that if that doesn't happen in the next finale episode, we're going to be like, what was OK, sure.

[00:05:26] It kind of feels like a climax that just doesn't really give us a closing chapter of a book.

[00:05:33] Yeah, well, I mean, look, I've said a couple of years ago, I'll never say again that, you know, there's a 0% chance for people to win.

[00:05:40] I think Sue and Teenie have 0% chance to win.

[00:05:43] And I think it's 90% for Rachel.

[00:05:45] I think that when they give Sam a confessional kind of a winner quote where he's like, we'll see about that.

[00:05:48] It's to build him up as a possible contender for Rachel.

[00:05:51] But I don't think he will beat Rachel just on game alone.

[00:05:54] It really seems like she has it.

[00:05:56] Yeah, on game alone. Right.

[00:05:57] But we have seen time and time again.

[00:05:59] And this is something why I also like don't want to say 0%.

[00:06:02] Maybe I'll do one.

[00:06:04] But people who can argue using their backgrounds already seeing the way Rachel speaks knowing Sam's occupation.

[00:06:13] So we get a little bit teeny, obviously, being a social competitor.

[00:06:18] When it comes down to it, people can argue at a travel council.

[00:06:22] But when it's for the win, that changes everything.

[00:06:27] You are going to think twice as much about what you say when you say and who you're speaking to.

[00:06:32] And some people fold under that pressure, no matter how great their game was.

[00:06:36] Or they rise to the top, even if their game wasn't as flashy or with as many moves as others.

[00:06:42] As long as you can argue, you can take the whole thing home.

[00:06:46] We've seen that before, like you've said.

[00:06:47] So that's where I'm really interested in who gets through by winning immunity, by doing fire.

[00:06:54] And then who can argue the best?

[00:06:58] Who can make that case for themselves?

[00:07:00] And if somebody is upset with them, who can at least argue or at least try to flip that person?

[00:07:06] Be like, I know you're mad at me, but please understand this is why I did it.

[00:07:09] This is how I did it.

[00:07:10] It wasn't personal.

[00:07:11] Yeah, but I think something that I have talked about a lot is that the finalists face different juries.

[00:07:17] The same jury, but it's different depending on who you are and Fatini or even Sue.

[00:07:22] I mean, Sue coming up in a difficult demographic, but their games are harder to defend.

[00:07:25] It's a more difficult argument compared to Rachel.

[00:07:28] Now, I know that she's already putting the wheels in motion.

[00:07:30] I can see it.

[00:07:31] I do not think that she misspoke when she said, oh, I got the idol after Sierra went home.

[00:07:36] I think she's lying about that deliberately because she's deliberate in everything because she's going to get to the final tribal council and say, I actually had the idol.

[00:07:43] I was reading my shot in the dark.

[00:07:45] She's going to talk about these little moments that she had to bring back things like the rice.

[00:07:50] You know, they're crediting her for like being the immunity threat to stop car.

[00:07:53] Like her game is so easy to defend.

[00:07:55] I'm sure she'll do it well, but she'll be running downhill and everyone else, especially against her will be running uphill and that will make it a difficult path.

[00:08:02] So I do think Rachel has it for me.

[00:08:05] But let's talk about it with Rachel, because I feel like the discourse I've seen with Rachel is one of the wildest things I've seen in discourse.

[00:08:11] And maybe that's like a maybe that's recency bias because it's probably crazy a lot.

[00:08:16] But my God, you know, the takes for the people who aren't chronically online.

[00:08:21] Firstly, what a life you must lead.

[00:08:23] And I really I'm jealous.

[00:08:26] But for the people who aren't chronically online, the takes range everywhere from she is the best player of ever.

[00:08:32] Dominic Abate is saying she's the best player of all time, but it's not just Dominic Abate.

[00:08:35] Thousands of likes on tweets like this, you know, so it's a prevailing thought.

[00:08:39] She could be the best player of all time.

[00:08:41] Best game of all time is what's being said.

[00:08:43] Rob saying best play of the new era.

[00:08:44] I think I've seen that a lot.

[00:08:46] Then I've seen she's a bad player.

[00:08:47] She just got really lucky.

[00:08:49] There's nothing there.

[00:08:50] And for me, I feel like I have the hot take of like she's good.

[00:08:54] You know, like she would be a solid new era winner for me around like the three to five month of new era winners for me, which is really strong.

[00:09:02] Like I don't want to like take away from her game.

[00:09:04] And I hate having to even come here and discredit her because I want to talk about, you know, what I think about her game being good.

[00:09:11] But I feel like I can't have it against things that are like she's the best of all time because I think that that's insane.

[00:09:18] And so I really want to talk about this with her game because she has a very specific type of game.

[00:09:25] She is has been the underdog.

[00:09:26] To me, she epitomizes and is the best of this archetype that is the defensive player.

[00:09:31] And you can say that in different ways.

[00:09:33] She's the fighter, the battler from the bottom underdog.

[00:09:35] She's all shield or suit of armor instead of sword.

[00:09:38] She protects, she defends.

[00:09:40] But for me, she has an agency to control.

[00:09:41] And we can talk about like the different type of games of what is easier and harder, because I think Rob has spoken about how, you know, the newer game often controlling.

[00:09:50] I mean, individually is very tough.

[00:09:52] You will get taken out.

[00:09:53] I think people control as a group of differentiate, like D and Jam Jam.

[00:09:56] I think people are underdogs and then come up into the overdog place like someone like a Marianne.

[00:10:00] But yeah, just like controlling it may be tough, whereas she's just defended the whole time, literally bunkered down.

[00:10:06] And you can't take shots of her like they will ricochet.

[00:10:08] She will protect them.

[00:10:09] And that's her game.

[00:10:10] And I want to talk about it because I think she might be doing that better than anyone I've ever seen.

[00:10:14] But I think she's playing that type of game.

[00:10:16] And I value other types of games more.

[00:10:18] So when I rank things, you know, she that I dismiss parts of that.

[00:10:24] So you you have been you've been an overdog.

[00:10:28] I think you've been controlling like in your first season, in the pre-mage of your second season.

[00:10:32] And then through the merge of your second season, you were the underdog.

[00:10:35] So do you have any thoughts on like where Rachel sits?

[00:10:38] What type of play she is for you?

[00:10:39] And what is a more difficult or impressive game to play when it's those two types of like offensive versus defensive game styles?

[00:10:47] I think some of the best players get a little bit of both.

[00:10:50] Um, and I will say, although she is heavy underdog, she has I think she's become a little bit of an overdog because she's winning those individual immunity challenges because she has gotten, you know, in with Sue.

[00:11:04] She's created these great bonds.

[00:11:07] But I will say I have noticed not only myself, but those around me when somebody is in a defensive position, I almost feel that's when they they thrive the most because you are just at your lowest.

[00:11:20] You want to do any and everything you can.

[00:11:23] And in a way, you kind of just don't care.

[00:11:25] You want to put the metal to the metal.

[00:11:26] Yeah, just want to go.

[00:11:28] And so somebody who gets that from the beginning, I think thrives throughout or for as long as they last, where somebody who might get that towards the end, you almost feel defeated.

[00:11:39] And we've seen that time and time again.

[00:11:41] I mean, even, you know, Teenie kind of hit on it like I sat there to myself.

[00:11:45] I don't even know what's going on.

[00:11:47] We're at the end of this like, oh, my gosh.

[00:11:49] And just this defeated motion moment for her where even when she was voting, she's like 30 more seconds, please, because she hadn't experienced that before being confronted with this individual who is over and over and over again.

[00:12:02] And Jennifer, you know, kind of pull the wool over her eyes.

[00:12:05] So I.

[00:12:07] I wouldn't say that I value that game more than others, but I will say that I give it its full credit because I have been, as you said, the overdog where then you get, you know, a blind side and you're just like, holy crap, I needed this.

[00:12:22] It sucks.

[00:12:22] And I really don't want to be in this position, but I needed this because here I am thinking things are going one way and they really aren't.

[00:12:29] And it opens your eyes. And Rachel has always had her eyes open from the beginning.

[00:12:34] And in a game like this, as fast paced as it has become in this new era, you have to be ready.

[00:12:40] You have to have your head on a swivel and and just do any and everything you can.

[00:12:44] And I see her doing that.

[00:12:46] Yeah, I mean, what you said about pedal to the metal, that's what's so interesting to me.

[00:12:50] And I'm going to criticize parts of it before I come in and talk about why I love a lot of what Rachel has done.

[00:12:56] But for me, yes, being an underdog, it's not an easier position, but it does mean that you can go all out and not think about the repercussions.

[00:13:05] And firstly, being in the position to be a threat that people are targeting.

[00:13:08] I mean, Sam definitely had it from like an aura archetype society perspective.

[00:13:12] Rachel obviously was giving off a bit of that aura and didn't manage the threat well enough.

[00:13:16] I think she did it better than Sam and hid through the mid merge quite a bit.

[00:13:19] But at the end of the day, a lot of people are like, just play the card she's been dealt who's dealing those cards like she's she has to have a part in where she is.

[00:13:27] If people don't want to work with her, if she's being she's being threatening.

[00:13:30] It's not even like when we talk about returnees coming back, like when Sandra comes back as a two time winner and is a threat.

[00:13:34] That's a different thing. She comes in there all a clean slate and she still gets to the point where people are taking shots at her.

[00:13:39] She has to wear being in that position. So for me, there's parts of the situational aspect of that.

[00:13:45] Then pedal to the metal because you're an underdog.

[00:13:48] For me, that will always be a little bit of a less interesting game because it's not nuanced like that.

[00:13:53] Yeah, to me, it's not easy because it's hard to do and you have to win out.

[00:13:56] You have to make good on it. And she has.

[00:13:58] But if you think about the fact that she can sit at tribal councils and already start giving away her game,

[00:14:03] already start talking about her game because it's big or go home, like go big or go home.

[00:14:07] If she loses, she's out. That's the game. And it's just about taking all of these shots.

[00:14:12] And for me, that's just a little bit less interesting than the people who definitely have to manage.

[00:14:16] And for me, like you think about a game like Natalie Anderson's endgame,

[00:14:19] where she strategically builds to the point of where she loses a final four immunity.

[00:14:23] And she's not the first two targets of the three targets. She's third.

[00:14:26] That's one of my favorite moves in survivor history for me on my value system compared to someone needing immunity from the final seven.

[00:14:33] That's probably my biggest criticism of Rachel's game that she will.

[00:14:35] She will have won up from eight, but she will have needed it from seven.

[00:14:38] Yeah, yeah. Great winners who win a lot, but don't need it.

[00:14:41] Requiring it for me is a gap. You know, obviously being left out of three votes, I think might be a US record for a winner if she wins.

[00:14:49] I know Sandra was blindsided a couple of times in Pearl Islands.

[00:14:53] That's what, you know, and Sandra's anyone from me. And that's her type of game.

[00:14:55] In many ways, that's a little bit defensive differently strategically.

[00:14:59] But for her, I think that, you know, it's about it's about fighting.

[00:15:03] But I criticize parts of that. And I think that as a fandom, often we do.

[00:15:07] You know, we criticize the people winning out, which I want to talk about in this mold.

[00:15:10] We criticize that Andy needed to, you know, advantages to be blocked out with Serene advantage get in that the vote block made a split impossible.

[00:15:19] And then the idol. And I think that's Rachel's game.

[00:15:22] It's a very interesting archetype for that game. But yeah, in terms of like the wins and the advantages.

[00:15:27] I know that you and Sandra had, you know, she was like, you're the you're the challenge threat in the family Sandra won without ever winning a challenge.

[00:15:34] And I think that's maybe my bias or my value system that, yeah, this type of game will always just be a little bit more pedal to the metal.

[00:15:42] Whereas I enjoy more like the, you know, puppeteering and the razzle dazzle and like the magic show for me.

[00:15:49] No. And I can get that because, like you said, she could just be out there up front and she definitely has to take.

[00:15:57] Responsibility for putting herself in that position as well.

[00:15:59] I mean, just like we saw in the last episode where her and Genevieve were like, we're the only two where this or that.

[00:16:04] And I'm like, girl, what are you doing? Like there's other people sitting right there.

[00:16:08] Don't say things like that. Oh, my goodness.

[00:16:10] And then it's like, of course, they're going to target you.

[00:16:12] You're saying things like that right next to them, discounting their game, making them feel less than because you're you want to pump people.

[00:16:18] I want to be next to you. I want to fight against you. I think it'd be amazing.

[00:16:22] But then you're saying things like that, like you're just going to win against me point blank, period.

[00:16:26] And that's how you feel. So you can have a great game.

[00:16:29] But sometimes those social moments where you you're not paying attention to what you're saying and who's around is is not good to forget about.

[00:16:38] Yeah, I mean, and from and from the beginning. So I think that we've seen again those gaps when she left out when she's when Operation Italy is one over her like that has meaning.

[00:16:47] She gets back to the final six and she loses teeny as a number. It went even worse than I thought Operation Italy would go for her.

[00:16:53] She's now a target. But again, she defends with the idol. So are those numbers going well?

[00:16:58] No, you know, and like I thought you have shields that Sam and Genevieve.

[00:17:02] I mean, Genevieve wins immunity and probably would have been a shield. But I thought Sam was a shield for her. He wasn't.

[00:17:06] So there are gaps there. But then she defends. So for me, I don't I don't think Rachel came out to play this game.

[00:17:11] I don't if you told Rachel before the season, you're going to be the one who beats out to the end.

[00:17:16] I don't think that she would have thought that was going to be her path to victory compared to like even like, you know, a Marianne or an Andy who I think got into situations where they then purposefully were like, I'm going to be the underdog and then kind of like be the overdog.

[00:17:29] I don't think that she's come to like be an underdog and then fight to the end. I think it's a different type of game.

[00:17:34] But I think that in the cards that she and circumstance of Delta, both of them have, you know, both of things.

[00:17:40] I think that she's been very good about that. Super deliberate. I haven't disagreed with any moves of how she's been defending.

[00:17:47] I just think that it's a very defensive game. But now I feel like I have to speak to firstly.

[00:17:53] Yeah, a couple of good things, because I also think that Rachel is great and people are also saying that she's lucky and bad, which is, I think, wrong.

[00:17:59] Firstly, I think that she is a much better player than this game.

[00:18:02] Like to talk about someone like even maybe Mark from the last Australians by the season or definitely like Adam Klein is like, her superpowers are a little bit wasted because her opportunities, again, maybe self-made have been limited.

[00:18:15] Can you imagine her type of really overly strategic thinking when she has more space?

[00:18:20] Like I would be scared and I would happily draft her again. So I think that she's an exceptional player playing a solid defensive game.

[00:18:26] That's kind of my definition of her. But then how do you see, you know, these are these are the arguments about her being lucky or bad.

[00:18:34] A lot of the main arguments soul saved her at the tribe shuffle.

[00:18:39] She got lucky to pick a rock to go to the journey and get the vote block, a rock of three and eight people could have been picking her up.

[00:18:48] And and then obviously she finds the idol on the fries and she's been left out three times.

[00:18:53] So there might be an element of luck to surviving. How do you see kind of how luck factors into her game?

[00:18:57] So it's one of those things that people talk about time and time again.

[00:19:02] Most of these games nowadays are not only gameplay, but they have luck to you are lucky in so many situations.

[00:19:10] That's how many people get to get deep into the game. We see it time and time again.

[00:19:17] So I get it. Maybe they're saying she's gotten way more luck than they're used to seeing.

[00:19:22] But I don't like when people say that the luck kind of outweighs the moves because there's so many moves.

[00:19:29] I mean, I was lucky enough to go to a point this way, a CBS event where the auction happened, where she got the idol.

[00:19:36] And not only in that episode at the tribal council when she played her shot in the dark, the whole theater gasped.

[00:19:48] OK, you know what I'm saying? So she was lucky enough to get it.

[00:19:53] But there is not one person on that tribe or in that tribal council that would have done that.

[00:19:58] And a lot of people from a lot of other seasons wouldn't have done that.

[00:20:01] I'm not going to lie watching it. Also, Australian Survivor, we don't get shots in the dark.

[00:20:06] So, you know, it wasn't at the front of my mind, or at least at this time watching her do that.

[00:20:11] I legit grabbed the person next to me and was like, she's seeing what they're going to do.

[00:20:16] And I'm like, oh, my God, what a genius move. This is crazy.

[00:20:21] You know what I'm saying? So, OK, she was lucky to get the prize.

[00:20:24] Anybody could have been on them and that person would have been lucky, too.

[00:20:28] Yeah. But they wouldn't have done what she did with that shot in the dark.

[00:20:32] So I don't like when when it gets outweighed.

[00:20:36] There are so many things because I also in my head say, and if you were in her shoes, you would be happy with the luck.

[00:20:43] You would be happy that these things happen to you as well in the way that they have.

[00:20:48] But would you have been able to then maneuver the next day like she did, too?

[00:20:52] I don't want to discount the things that she still did not say she didn't put herself in certain predicaments or certain, you know, don't want to discount that either.

[00:21:00] But you get out of those sticky situation.

[00:21:03] That person has those capabilities. And like you said, this game, I mean, as smart as she is, is bigger than her sometimes.

[00:21:09] I think as well where I'm just like this woman is phenomenal.

[00:21:12] I'd love to see her again. I'd love to see her in a longer version, maybe even with a bigger tribe if it's back to two and two.

[00:21:19] But yeah, luck is always a factor in these games. That's always a topic of discussion.

[00:21:24] I just wonder what it is about her that it's like now she's a bad player because of how lucky she's been.

[00:21:30] Like, you know, I think people think she's been overly lucky and that it's more luck than skill.

[00:21:35] I don't think she's been overly lucky.

[00:21:37] I mean, I think that firstly of the votes she was left out on, you could say, well, why didn't they target her?

[00:21:42] I think that's earned. You know, her they had relationship with her of Annika in the pre-merge and possibly even over Andy.

[00:21:48] She she earns that. So that's done.

[00:21:50] Yeah, Sierra.

[00:21:51] They could have targeted her, but she was reading her shot in the dark and we hope would have read it correctly to play her.

[00:21:55] I also would have been again protected in this defensive game.

[00:21:58] And then she was protected again with Operation Italy and she earns that immunity again in her defensive game.

[00:22:02] So I think that that's across the board earned.

[00:22:04] Then the soul vote.

[00:22:05] I really want to talk about this because this is not the sole advantage.

[00:22:08] The main thing that people say is that she was saved and people used to talk about this with Hayley Lee, your old hero tribe mate.

[00:22:14] And it really is to this day one of my biggest pet peeves in survivor discourse because Hayley like was to a screwed and then she came back and she was to a save.

[00:22:22] It's a net neutral. Like if anything, she was worse off for it.

[00:22:25] Then people are also comparing Rachel's game to Hayley.

[00:22:27] And then I'm like, no, that's too much.

[00:22:29] Hayley went to double the tribal councils and was never out of majority other than that.

[00:22:34] So again, the discourse is wrong to me across the board.

[00:22:36] But on, on that's a tangent on this, on the sole advantage, she was completely screwed.

[00:22:42] She had bad luck to be in that position and then we're saved.

[00:22:45] It's a net neutral.

[00:22:46] We can just let that one go to the keeper.

[00:22:47] I think that that's the worst argument about her luck because that's probably the worst luck she had was five minutes before soul saved her and even being in that group.

[00:22:54] Then the vote block picking the rock.

[00:22:57] I thought all eight of them, you know, should have picked a rock.

[00:22:59] They let her go to a one in three. That's five people's mistake.

[00:23:02] She picks it and she makes good on it. She gets the advantage. She plays it well here.

[00:23:06] Again, she's maximized every opportunity.

[00:23:08] And I don't see that as that lucky. They all could have put their hand in the bag.

[00:23:11] And I think they all made the wrong five of them made the wrong decision.

[00:23:13] And she, Sam and Genevieve did the right thing.

[00:23:15] And then the fries. That is lucky. It was lucky that she got the eye on the fries.

[00:23:19] That's the best luck she's had. I think that's the only good, good luck that I can see that she has had.

[00:23:24] And then again, maximizes on that so well with the blind side. She's fine. She's lying. She's crying.

[00:23:29] She was doing all those things in rhyme and plays it phenomenally.

[00:23:33] So, yes, that was lucky and she maximized. But I don't think that's an exceedingly lucky game.

[00:23:38] I think that was one lucky break that she made good on.

[00:23:40] And I don't see the rest of her game as being like this luck based game for me.

[00:23:44] No. And I actually, I love the fact that you made this point.

[00:23:49] People will say somebody got lucky for whatever reason in whatever situation.

[00:23:54] Like you said, the fries. Yeah, that's luck.

[00:23:56] But there's other points to your other points.

[00:24:00] Five other people made that choice.

[00:24:02] You chose not to do this because I see and I hear so many.

[00:24:06] Oh, I should have could have would have. You didn't though.

[00:24:09] You didn't though. So is that person lucky?

[00:24:12] Or did these people make a choice that benefited this person?

[00:24:16] It just.

[00:24:17] When when you say that, that makes me very happy that you see that,

[00:24:21] because there's so many times that I've heard about other players,

[00:24:24] other situations and even in this current game, that person is lucky.

[00:24:28] I'm like, are they lucky because this person chose not to do that.

[00:24:31] This person chose to pick this.

[00:24:33] They everybody made their choices.

[00:24:35] She made the right one and she wouldn't know it was right until she picked that rock

[00:24:39] until she made that choice, until she played in the shot in the dark and didn't play her idol.

[00:24:43] You don't know until it happens.

[00:24:45] Those people made their choices and she made hers and hers was the right one.

[00:24:48] We all play the lottery.

[00:24:50] I don't know that I'm lucky until I got the numbers.

[00:24:52] But guess what? I chose those numbers.

[00:24:54] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:55] If she has a one and eight shot of picking the rock to go to the journey to get the vote block,

[00:25:00] maybe she doesn't get it like everyone else should have to wear that.

[00:25:02] I mean, Andy, who goes for it, didn't put his hand in the bag.

[00:25:04] I don't know that he could see it playing out like this, but in the situation he was in at the time,

[00:25:08] he also should have been going.

[00:25:09] They were all like, I've already been.

[00:25:10] I don't need to. And I criticized it then.

[00:25:12] And she did the right thing.

[00:25:13] I was really impressed with it.

[00:25:14] I think she came back and used it really well.

[00:25:16] And I don't see that as luck.

[00:25:18] The fries is lucky.

[00:25:19] That's that is the one thing.

[00:25:20] But I don't think yet that her game is overly lucky seats.

[00:25:23] And now and that's why I feel like with the discourse, I'm like saying that she's solid is the hot take.

[00:25:28] I have to come in and be like, it's not Haley. It's not Haley's game.

[00:25:31] Who's like torn up a pre merge, you know, before the like she had done so many things

[00:25:37] where you could even get to the merge.

[00:25:38] The Strand survivor is very long, but that's a lot.

[00:25:40] She's not the best player of all time.

[00:25:42] That's a crazy tip to me, you know, but even the best play of the new era, I think people have done

[00:25:47] have had much more agency, much more control.

[00:25:50] And that matters to me.

[00:25:50] But I do think that she's playing the best defensive game I've probably ever seen.

[00:25:54] I don't know how much more you could maximize on being defensive.

[00:25:57] She's such an all rounder.

[00:25:59] She's done every element of defense.

[00:26:01] She's thought about it.

[00:26:01] She's won challenges.

[00:26:02] She's had trinkets.

[00:26:03] She's played them well.

[00:26:04] That to me is defensive.

[00:26:05] And is it in the Ben Dreeberg and the Mike Holloway mold?

[00:26:09] Yes.

[00:26:09] And people don't like people don't like those winners.

[00:26:11] So then they feel like that's an insult.

[00:26:14] And I think maybe there's some bias in trying to separate her from that.

[00:26:16] I see her very much as the Ben and the Mike, the fighter.

[00:26:19] I don't say that in a bad way, though.

[00:26:21] I think she's doing that game the best that I've seen.

[00:26:23] I don't see her as even like a Danny Boatwright or Chris Doherty or these underdogs

[00:26:27] who found a strategic crack.

[00:26:28] She is a fighter.

[00:26:29] She is beasting to the end.

[00:26:30] That is the game, but she's doing it better than anyone I've ever seen.

[00:26:33] Maybe like even Chackie is from Survivor South Africa.

[00:26:35] Someone who was also trying to maximize on, you know, getting that type of win.

[00:26:40] But yeah, I think she's doing it better.

[00:26:40] And I think that it will earn the win for her.

[00:26:42] So I hope I don't I hate to come in discredit.

[00:26:45] I hope I've been clear in like the type of game that I think that she's having that is really impressive.

[00:26:49] It's just not like I think some names it's almost unfair to her and me having to, you know, then wait against like these like impossible conversations that I think she's not the best player of all time.

[00:26:59] Why are we even talking about that?

[00:27:02] But then I'm having to discredit her and there are so many people who I think wrongly discredit her to underrate her even more.

[00:27:07] I'm like, no, but don't go that far because that's I think that's way off the other end.

[00:27:10] So I hope I've been clear and where I sit in the middle and why I think both extremes are wild.

[00:27:16] No. Yeah. And I think to that there I almost want to say like a little bit of time needs to pass before you label somebody as like the greatest of all time or the greatest of the new era.

[00:27:26] Anything like that. I get where those come from. I almost like a top 10 list.

[00:27:32] You know what I'm saying? I'm never one to be like the greatest number one point blank.

[00:27:36] I'm like, put them in a list. That's what I like. Maybe narrow it down anything.

[00:27:40] But I agree with you in what you're saying to make sure your stance is clear that you don't want to discredit somebody that you still think is playing a great game.

[00:27:48] Exactly. I completely agree with you. And from my point of view, I understand where you're coming from.

[00:27:53] Thank you. And I'm glad that you're saying it that way as well. Yeah. I like, well, don't but it was like maybe we should debate on our GP.

[00:27:58] I'm like, I will do it. But like also, I'll be sad to come in on the anti-racial side because I think she's really strong.

[00:28:04] Then I could go also debate someone saying she's so lucky and be on the pro-racial side.

[00:28:08] Like I'm slapping in the middle. And honestly, I have seen like a bigger discourse around louder voices being like, yes, solid winner.

[00:28:14] And I'm like, yes, let's all stay here in normality together because otherwise I feel like I'm losing my mind.

[00:28:20] But anyway, I think we talked it through. I think people get where we stand on Rachel as a player in terms of like her move this week.

[00:28:27] There's a couple of interesting things here. Firstly, we got this question a lot on social media.

[00:28:31] So I'd like to ask you in her defensive game, protect with the idol, then wins at five.

[00:28:35] Do you think she could have tried to bluff the idol? Tell everyone you can't split the vote.

[00:28:39] I'm blocking a vote three to two with me and Sue and she gets Sue in a really important way.

[00:28:45] I'm wearing the idol public idol. You can't for me.

[00:28:49] And then they can't vote for her. Keeps it as a little bit of risk.

[00:28:52] It goes to five users at a five doesn't have to win out. How do you feel about this as a move?

[00:28:57] What she actually did, I feel as far as jury management goes, was way more impressive.

[00:29:03] I was thinking to myself, you know, as a viewer, if I was a juror, what would I think?

[00:29:08] And I'd be like, oh, my God, she's going home. This sucks.

[00:29:10] When you can shock the jury right then and there in front of everyone and allow them to see the reaction of your fellow players that are still in the game.

[00:29:19] That is ice cream on the cake. She doesn't even have to explain anything, anything where she, you know, use the idol, maybe bluff, maybe said I am going to use it, whatever.

[00:29:30] They're already that's going to be a topic of discussion. She she already told us she had it.

[00:29:35] She already did. She already that. There's no razzle dazzle to it.

[00:29:39] It's just is she going to play it? Is she not? Let's see if she makes the right choice.

[00:29:42] Instead, she allowed everyone to be like, I'm defeated. I'm this. Oh, I hate that this could happen.

[00:29:48] And just so you guys also know him, him, her and her decided to tell me that I am going to go home.

[00:29:56] Andy wanted to say this. Sam wanted to say that they all we had a whole funeral procession like we did all of this.

[00:30:02] Oh, woe is me. Psych. I'm still in the game that I mean, jury management.

[00:30:09] That was amazing. And even of tribal council, even if that wasn't about the jury and that was earlier in the game, I still would have been like, girl.

[00:30:16] Yes, because I am even shook and I love to see everyone's faces behind you.

[00:30:20] Well, that's what this and this I think speaks to a game, right? It's a flashy defensive game.

[00:30:25] She said that when soul gave her the advantage she earned through their relationship anyway.

[00:30:30] Yeah, tangent. She's not that lucky. Okay.

[00:30:33] When yeah, she said that her husband was like, don't go home with something in your pocket.

[00:30:36] I think you really wants to play the thing she coming off a season where everyone went home with something.

[00:30:40] She wants to make sure I don't think she wants to risk of going home with something in her pocket.

[00:30:44] It's a different type of game. Her game is flashy.

[00:30:46] This is super flashy for a jury.

[00:30:47] She's allowed to raise her threat level because she's trying to win out. So it doesn't matter.

[00:30:51] And it's super defensive. It means she has to back herself to win the next time.

[00:30:54] And she does win and she's also in favor to win.

[00:30:57] And that's a credit to her as well. I think that both are interesting.

[00:31:00] Both have risk. Obviously this had risk at five extreme risk, but you also if Genevieve,

[00:31:05] well, she thinks Genevieve has the idol, so she's not even a shield.

[00:31:07] So it's a lot of risk at five, not playing it and buffing it is risk at six that they just are like,

[00:31:14] that's what she wants us to think. And now we're in a little bit of like a, you know, game of chicken with each other.

[00:31:19] So there would be some risk there. I do think as well. Yeah.

[00:31:22] The flashiness of not just getting the idol and playing it correctly, but taking out Andy.

[00:31:28] And I want to talk about a decision of Sam versus Andy, but when Andy is blindsided at three different times,

[00:31:34] she now has a good story for the jury of like, but I got him in such a deliberate individual with Sue, but way.

[00:31:41] And so public. And like, I, you know, he won the battles, but I won the war.

[00:31:45] And I do think that's important to her story because obviously the decision for her is Sam versus Andy.

[00:31:49] So where did you kind of sit on what she should do with that, with her idol of who she can take out at the point where she can choose between Sam and Andy?

[00:31:59] I, I'm glad she chose Andy because what it tells me as a player is that discussion that she had with him, where he was like flat out saying everything he did.

[00:32:12] It must've been good enough to scare her. You know what I'm saying? He must've been able to speak well enough because again,

[00:32:17] we've seen players where we're like, wow, what a great game. And then they pitch at the end, whether you see it properly on TV or hear it from somebody who was in the jury.

[00:32:25] And they're like, they did not pitch that well guys. Like it was not that good. So for Andy to say something to have her shaking in her boots,

[00:32:32] she made the right decision. And not only that he let her know, which is a mistake I've done before that he really respects her.

[00:32:40] He really likes her. He really trusts her. He sees, he, he knows that he's done wrong to her and he wants to make that right by being open and honest with her.

[00:32:49] And I would think to myself, man, if this guy was on the jury, he'd probably feel so bad about what he's done to me that he would at least consider giving me a vote.

[00:32:57] Then he's making this great argument. And because he is such a flip flopper, he's open to any opportunities.

[00:33:04] He might not be happy, obviously that he's going to go home, but I bet you he respects the hell out of her for what she did.

[00:33:12] Cause I would be like, he didn't even look mad. I would have been like, dang girl, you did it. Like, I love this.

[00:33:19] And I think Andy, although I don't know him based on what I've seen in the season, he would be one of those players.

[00:33:25] So I think she made the right choice where somebody like Sam is just going to be absolutely salty.

[00:33:30] He's already feeling defeated already on the bottom. He already has been gunning for her.

[00:33:35] So to win him over is probably going to be not a super uphill battle, but you know, he already has that wall up for her.

[00:33:42] So I think she made the right choice and I'm glad she did it. It was very satisfying to watch.

[00:33:47] Not going to lie because I was like, man, these people are just like, yeah, you're done.

[00:33:51] So I don't really care. I'm just going to tell you all this stuff.

[00:33:54] And I'm like, until they're on the bench, they sit there and they say, you never know what can happen.

[00:34:00] You never know what somebody will pull out of their hat, this and that.

[00:34:04] Yet they still will be like, nah, you're done. Yeah. We're good.

[00:34:07] I'll do whatever. I don't even care. Why don't save it for later?

[00:34:12] Yeah. I like, obviously we can talk about them all not lying to her face.

[00:34:16] And I want to talk about that. But Andy did respect it.

[00:34:19] And I'm obviously devastated to lose both Andy and Genevieve in this episode because they were two, you know, such incredible players.

[00:34:26] I think in a pretty even cast, even on kind of confessionals, on airtime, on even game styles.

[00:34:31] Like, I don't think that anyone's been so far above.

[00:34:34] I think everyone's had gaps. And I think that's a lot of like highlights and great thinking.

[00:34:39] And I think that's been so interesting to watch. Yeah.

[00:34:41] But to watch Rachel here do this, I feel like this episode for me had a lot of kind of tweener decisions.

[00:34:46] But I'm like, I can kind of go either way. I'm not like super intense either way.

[00:34:49] Like on her bluffing the idol, I see her doing what she did.

[00:34:52] I think it makes sense from a story perspective, from a safety perspective and in her game style.

[00:34:57] On voting out Andy versus Sam, for me, it's that she needs to win out.

[00:35:01] And Sam is a bigger immunity threat.

[00:35:04] So I might tweener lean to voting out Sam.

[00:35:07] But in saying that, he did say he felt really sick.

[00:35:09] So maybe you're less worried about how he'll be in challenges in the next couple of days.

[00:35:12] She has been, he's won reward challenges, but she has held her own.

[00:35:17] And then for the story of Andy.

[00:35:19] And I think, you know, I think she could sit next to him, but I would rather actually sit next to Sam if it's going to get to that point.

[00:35:26] Although, yeah, and it might get to that point now, you know, with someone like, you know, Genevieve as a shield before.

[00:35:33] The only thing is that I think that in terms of the final five, they think Genevieve has an idol at that point.

[00:35:39] And so she thinks she's either going to win, if she doesn't win immunity, she goes home.

[00:35:43] And if she does win immunity, she surely think it's the other one of Sam or Andy.

[00:35:47] So I don't think that her concern should be as much about who she's sitting next to at that point, because she thinks Genevieve has the idol.

[00:35:52] So I do think that it may be more just on who she can beat.

[00:35:56] But then I also think that her story is so even sitting next to Sam, just to be able to say, like, I beat Andy.

[00:36:03] From a story perspective, it doesn't matter who she sits next to.

[00:36:05] That looks really good and covers some of the gaps that she's had from being blindsided by him three different times.

[00:36:10] So Tweenie decision for me, I might take out Sam from a physical standpoint, but I don't think that it hugely matters.

[00:36:15] But I do want to talk about what you're saying is where Andy went wrong.

[00:36:22] Andy going home here, you know, such a big character.

[00:36:25] And there was so much discourse as well around Operation Italy.

[00:36:29] Would he go home next?

[00:36:30] I was like, definitely not.

[00:36:31] He did.

[00:36:32] But in ways that I genuinely never expected.

[00:36:37] What did you think about?

[00:36:38] Yeah.

[00:36:38] Firstly, what did you think about Operation Italy?

[00:36:39] Did you think it was a good move?

[00:36:40] And how did you think about, like, the fallout as to how it pertained to this episode?

[00:36:45] Yeah.

[00:36:45] No, I think any good blindside is a good blindside.

[00:36:49] Like, you know, as long as you can get out of it.

[00:36:52] Right.

[00:36:52] And unfortunately, he didn't.

[00:36:54] I think he could have.

[00:36:55] I think that there's just certain discussions that were had, especially with Rachel sneaking down at night and hearing the way that they were speaking and ready to gun for her next.

[00:37:06] If those discussions were maybe a little bit more hidden and they were paying attention a little bit more, they could have maybe even gotten around that.

[00:37:15] Andy, at least.

[00:37:16] Because then that confirms that he knew.

[00:37:18] And the fact that everybody's like, or not everybody, but Taney was kind of like, oh, it was just an accident.

[00:37:23] And Rachel's like, no, it wasn't.

[00:37:25] He flipped on purpose.

[00:37:26] Like, what are you talking about?

[00:37:27] Now, if they had told her that story, if they had made sure they had a discussion with her, mainly Andy, of course, because he's the one that needs to make sure he's good in, you know, with them.

[00:37:37] Then it could have changed.

[00:37:38] I don't know.

[00:37:38] I just see that.

[00:37:40] I think he got a little bit too cocky.

[00:37:43] He saw all these plans that he had really come to fruition and follow through.

[00:37:48] And he was able to do all these things that he's kind of like maybe took a step back when he should have made sure that he double checked and chatted with any and everyone all day.

[00:37:56] You cannot, after a big blindside like that, that people were not expecting at all.

[00:38:02] After you sat there time and time again, making sure that they voted a specific way and weren't going to do anything.

[00:38:08] And then they're telling you, no, why don't we just get rid of Sam?

[00:38:11] No.

[00:38:11] How do you even know?

[00:38:12] How do you know?

[00:38:12] No, no, no, no.

[00:38:13] Let's not do it.

[00:38:14] And then you still convince them to do it.

[00:38:15] You have to do damage control.

[00:38:17] And I think maybe that's where Andy lacks doing damage control, which is also why you see a lot of people on the jury while impressed by his moves.

[00:38:23] A lot of them probably don't really care for him on a personal level.

[00:38:28] Damage control is a huge part of Survivor that some people forget about, or at least they think that they can do better than they do.

[00:38:37] And I think Andy's one of those people that while he can try his best to get those relationships back on track, he ends up just saying the wrong thing.

[00:38:47] And Rachel, to her credit, just because we're talking about Andy, fed into his whole thing about perception.

[00:38:53] Like, you know, everybody just thinks this about you.

[00:38:55] Everybody just thinks that about you.

[00:38:57] And it really dug him down into a hole where he was like, oh my gosh, I have to start thinking about all these things.

[00:39:03] Let me spill my guts to Rachel.

[00:39:05] The wrong person to do that with because you already severed that relationship the way you went about, you know, Operation Italy.

[00:39:12] While it was impressive, it backfired and unfortunately he went home next.

[00:39:16] And although I wouldn't have mind to see him, you know, continue on, it was still satisfying when she finally, you know, was able to get that done.

[00:39:25] Yeah, I mean, I think that Operation Italy, I think that he actually came back from Operation Italy itself very well.

[00:39:31] Better than I, who was so high on the move, ever even could have thought.

[00:39:35] I mean, like, I thought he would come back to possible shields with people not wanting to work with him, but some space there.

[00:39:40] He came back to numbers.

[00:39:42] They brought Teenie over.

[00:39:44] Again, it went worse for Rachel than I thought, where Rachel loses the numbers.

[00:39:47] It went better for Andy than I thought, where he gets the numbers, he brings over Teenie.

[00:39:52] He has different shields than I thought.

[00:39:54] Actually, I thought he would have, yeah, Genevieve, Sam, and then Rachel with shields.

[00:39:58] And that, until he kind of buried himself, was true, but it was the other way.

[00:40:02] It was like kind of, Genevieve, he said he would have voted out.

[00:40:05] Next, if she didn't win immunity.

[00:40:06] And I thought that would happen.

[00:40:07] I didn't think that Operation Italy was going to be long term.

[00:40:10] I thought that he would go back on the next threat.

[00:40:12] He said he was going to.

[00:40:13] So that would be good.

[00:40:14] So Genevieve was a top threat, top shield.

[00:40:15] Then Rachel actually kind of shifted where she became the next biggest shield, even coming back from the Lost.

[00:40:20] She's apparently the biggest fire maker.

[00:40:21] So Rachel's a huge shield.

[00:40:22] And Sam was even a shield.

[00:40:23] He had three shields in front of him.

[00:40:24] That's so, so good.

[00:40:26] That's what I was hoping would happen.

[00:40:28] He comes back even with kind of less of the threat because he convinces at least, you know, just Teenie.

[00:40:33] And Rachel calls it up very well at Tribal Council, but convinces Teenie that it was all kind of a happy accident.

[00:40:40] People think that it was an actively bad move because he kept it not just Genevieve over Caroline, but Genevieve with at that point, quote unquote, an idol.

[00:40:47] So he maybe, you know, at that point isn't as big a threat because people aren't seeing the clear move at that time, which is going to have its own issues.

[00:40:54] And maybe why he'll have to speak to Rachel about it.

[00:40:57] But I thought he came back really, really great.

[00:40:59] He clearly gave himself a jury story that eventually Rachel was going to deem too threatening.

[00:41:03] So I was really happy with the way that it went for him.

[00:41:05] Then he buries himself, obviously, by telling Rachel about the game.

[00:41:08] I do think that this was obviously, for all four of them, so complacent.

[00:41:13] You don't tell people to their faith that they're going home.

[00:41:15] It's way too cocky.

[00:41:16] And obviously, not how you play a survivor for reasons that I think have become abundantly clear.

[00:41:23] But I do think with Andy's game, he said in his exit interviews that his perception was a feature, not a bug.

[00:41:29] I've criticized the perception at times, you know, for being someone who I thought at the time, you know, was a goat.

[00:41:36] And I said he needs to drastically change that.

[00:41:37] And he did.

[00:41:38] I said, you know, well, it's, you know, people want to play with him, but it's easier to because he's a goat.

[00:41:42] He's saying he knew that he lent into it once the ball was rolling from the first couple of days.

[00:41:48] He lent into that knowing would give him space, knowing would give him relationships and time.

[00:41:52] And I do think that's really impressive.

[00:41:53] And I do credit that.

[00:41:54] And I think it's valid.

[00:41:55] But the drawback is now you're really going to start firing to have potential with a jury.

[00:42:02] So he does Operation Italy.

[00:42:03] It was razor thin whether it would work, but that's the shot.

[00:42:06] That's the best shot.

[00:42:07] That's better than trying to get to fire or anything like this is actually he gave himself a chance to win.

[00:42:11] But it almost then even wasn't enough, probably.

[00:42:13] So then he feels like he has to go to Rachel and has to explain his game to her.

[00:42:16] And that was a risk necessitated by the game style he had chosen.

[00:42:20] It gave him massive benefits.

[00:42:21] And these are the massive cons.

[00:42:22] I don't back doing it with Rachel, but I think that also it's a symptom of the game.

[00:42:26] He validly tried to play, but that has drawbacks and is difficult because now you're having to over explain your game.

[00:42:32] And there's parts of that that are dangerous as well.

[00:42:35] So I think that's what happened to Andy.

[00:42:36] But I don't think it was on Operation Italy.

[00:42:37] I think it was on the conversation that he went home.

[00:42:40] Yeah, it absolutely was.

[00:42:41] And I can see where you're coming from.

[00:42:44] I'm glad that he switched up, obviously.

[00:42:47] And I think sometimes like I was just thinking in the last episode, he's so perceptive of others and of his own perception that other people have of him.

[00:42:57] But then I also felt like it was a downfall.

[00:42:59] Like anytime somebody said like, well, you know, people feel like you're a goat.

[00:43:02] People feel like this or that.

[00:43:04] He gets into his head.

[00:43:05] Sometimes does a great move.

[00:43:07] Sometimes doesn't.

[00:43:08] Obviously, he went home, dug himself into a hole.

[00:43:10] So ultimately, it was his full on, you know, downfall.

[00:43:14] And like you said, when you play a game that you really do have to explain to people, it's one of those tough ones that you need to be able to get to the end.

[00:43:23] And you're not going to do that when you get into a position where you're telling one of the most threatening people what your game is.

[00:43:30] I've seen it.

[00:43:31] I've heard it.

[00:43:33] And you just don't do that.

[00:43:35] Not right then.

[00:43:36] Not at the pointy end of the game.

[00:43:39] And Andy is very impressive.

[00:43:41] I just have like such a weird feeling when I watch him because I'm like, I'm so glad that he's doing these things, but also kind of frustrated at times because of the fact that how he started.

[00:43:54] You know what I'm saying?

[00:43:55] I love when people really kick things into high gear.

[00:43:57] But it's like, dude, you were making all these comments about watching people, Sam bickering at the beginning about, you know, doing the clothesline, like watching these people.

[00:44:06] They can say whatever they want, but their actions are what really speaks to it.

[00:44:11] And I'm like, dude, your actions spoke to you.

[00:44:14] Like you let everybody, not everybody, well, at least in this specific situation, you let Rachel get into your head about what people perceive about you.

[00:44:21] And you let your guard down at a moment where you thought she was going home.

[00:44:24] But you know that things flip.

[00:44:26] You've been a part of those flips.

[00:44:28] So, yeah, I was very impressed by him.

[00:44:30] But it also he's one of those that I'm just so 50 50 every time I watch.

[00:44:34] I'm like, dude, you're so smart, but you're lacking in something.

[00:44:38] Something is just not clicking where you're like, hold on, pump the brakes.

[00:44:42] Yeah, well, I mean, look, Rachel's drawing on like a real insecurity, like the jury issue.

[00:44:47] Like it is an issue in his game.

[00:44:48] Again, it's a feature, not a bug, but it's a feature that has cons, pros and cons every time, you know, every way you try to play the game.

[00:44:55] And for that, that was his massive con.

[00:44:57] And for me, firstly, I think, yeah, Rachel, this is underratedly great.

[00:45:01] The way that Rachel puts that pressure on from a jury perspective to the point where he thinks he needs to do that.

[00:45:05] Great move by Rachel in this episode of Great Moves for Her.

[00:45:08] And I will say as well, for me, I would do it at the Final Four Tribal Council.

[00:45:12] Like now, like the new era, by not having a voted for, has been like gifted this like pre-Final Tribal Council, Tribal Council.

[00:45:18] At Final Four, where you win immunity, you have time to talk.

[00:45:21] Even if you're taken through, you can talk.

[00:45:22] If you go to fire, talk.

[00:45:24] Like at that point, I think is when like a fire maker is like made up their mind more.

[00:45:28] And it's time to just like, you have to win out anyway.

[00:45:30] You have your chance to win.

[00:45:31] And I would do it then.

[00:45:33] And I wouldn't do it earlier.

[00:45:34] But I do.

[00:45:35] I was happy about this because I feel like the whole, not that he went, but like in the way that it happened,

[00:45:40] the whole week I was seeing like things again.

[00:45:42] The discourse has been driving me a little crazy.

[00:45:44] And I don't know if you can tell.

[00:45:46] Yeah, there was a lot of like results oriented thinking.

[00:45:48] Oh, well, like Operation Italy will be a good move if he wins and a bad move if he loses.

[00:45:52] And like for me, it was always like, even if he goes home next, then, you know, like he had no chance to win.

[00:45:59] So that like is already like we can't deem it a bad move.

[00:46:02] There is no bad move when you're drawing dead.

[00:46:04] Even if he goes home next, if the jury were never going to vote for him, even after this,

[00:46:09] then there's no point, then nothing matters.

[00:46:12] So then just have fun.

[00:46:13] Like to me, that was so clear that it didn't need much more information to know at least that it wasn't a bad move.

[00:46:20] Short of the jury being like we were going to vote for Andy.

[00:46:22] So then you had something to lose.

[00:46:24] You have nothing to lose when you literally can't win.

[00:46:26] I think that was a big thing for me.

[00:46:27] And I think that this has shown a lot about results oriented thinking that has been better in the discourse

[00:46:32] because he then does go home.

[00:46:34] But I feel like people now realize it's not because of, you know, Operation Italy.

[00:46:39] And sometimes like that's not causation.

[00:46:42] But I also think that like had he just gone home and it hadn't been so much of a roller coaster where he like came back really well and then fell,

[00:46:49] maybe people would have been like, oh, see Operation Italy.

[00:46:51] And it would have been like, no, it was still a good move.

[00:46:53] So I feel like that, you know, just some stuff about like results oriented thinking.

[00:46:56] It's like it's either if we don't have enough information as viewers,

[00:46:59] I think that it's fair to be like, let's wait and see how it goes.

[00:47:02] I also think that there's like players like, you know, Genevieve in the soul move.

[00:47:06] If she like that, I think is a multi-part move.

[00:47:08] Like sometimes you have to come back and specifically recover well to be like this was worth it.

[00:47:12] The juice was worth the squeeze.

[00:47:13] I think that's important.

[00:47:14] But then I think there are some moves where you can see it's good because, again, it betters your chances 100%.

[00:47:19] It might better your chances from like 0 to 10.

[00:47:23] And then so you're still going to lose 90% of the time.

[00:47:25] But then you can't say, oh, he lost 90% of the time.

[00:47:27] That was the 90, but it's better than the 100.

[00:47:30] I think.

[00:47:31] Have I made any sense on that?

[00:47:33] No, no, no.

[00:47:33] It's because it's a lot.

[00:47:34] I'm every time you're saying something, I'm like, ah.

[00:47:37] So I.

[00:47:38] That's what people say about me.

[00:47:40] No, no.

[00:47:40] But it's good though because it's got me going because I, I guess my perception of it,

[00:47:45] which maybe I'll backtrack on something I said before where him kind of like digging himself out of a hole.

[00:47:49] I'll, I'll, I'll take that back.

[00:47:51] Like he did come back really well because I can see now based on what you're saying and your perception of it.

[00:48:01] It wasn't even, it was a good move point blank period.

[00:48:06] I guess I associated him having another successful move with how he then got kind of on a high horse and was like, oh, everything I know is right.

[00:48:17] Rachel, you're going to go home because I've been on top doing these crazy moves and flipping and having it be successful.

[00:48:25] Um, that I can just say and do whatever, which ended up being his downfall.

[00:48:29] So I'll take that back about him digging himself out of a hole.

[00:48:31] He didn't have to, but the success he had with that blind side operation.

[00:48:37] Italy got him in a position that we've all seen where somebody has power and they've successfully done something where they're kind of like, oh, you know, I know that this is going to happen.

[00:48:47] So might as well just tell you like, let, can you give me some points about this?

[00:48:51] So I'll take that back that I'm more associated with him being in a position where he kind of puts his blinders on and forgets, dude, you don't need to be telling people this.

[00:49:01] Cause like you said, he could have waited.

[00:49:03] He could have made sure in that final four, um, tribal, then he can start kind of hinting at things, um, that he has done.

[00:49:12] And like, but you know, like you said, I don't know if he would have pulled out the wind, but a great move is a great move.

[00:49:17] I was impressed by it.

[00:49:18] I was, you know, no matter how I feel about any player, a good move is a good move.

[00:49:22] And operation Italy was a great move.

[00:49:24] Yeah.

[00:49:24] I mean, operation Italy was a hundred percent, the best shot he had from where he was at.

[00:49:27] And I'm really glad that he took it, but I mean, I called him cocky and I actually, I'm going to walk that back.

[00:49:31] Cause I think a lot of people have seen it.

[00:49:32] Like he pulled off this amazing move and then got cocky.

[00:49:37] Um, and then told Rachel, I don't actually, I don't see it like that.

[00:49:40] I think they all got very complacent and there's no forgiving the fact that they weren't lying to her face,

[00:49:44] but, um, especially cause he's a swing vote, just be like, yes, I will vote for Sam.

[00:49:48] You know, like I think, and I think Rachel plays him well at that point being like, if you lie to me,

[00:49:52] Sue and I won't vote for you, but she said in the exit.

[00:49:54] Um, I think he plays that really, really well.

[00:49:56] But for me, it's just about still blindsiding her, um, and, and making that choice.

[00:50:00] Cause I think the other version of it is, is too risky just from like letting her know she's the target,

[00:50:05] let alone telling her your whole game.

[00:50:06] I think that to me, I mean, she'd already spied on them, but without that,

[00:50:09] like you should be coming back and saying that she's with teeny.

[00:50:11] Like how did she even know that she was so much the target for everyone?

[00:50:14] I think that that is what it is, but I don't think that him telling her is the result of his cockiness on the move.

[00:50:19] I think it's based on some valid insecurities about his game.

[00:50:22] It's a calculated risk based on the game that he had got himself into of being such a low threat level

[00:50:27] that he'd benefit in many ways, but then needed to try and differentiate.

[00:50:32] So for me, it's based on insecurity more than cockiness and a valid one, a game-based one at that.

[00:50:38] But I still don't back, you know, telling Rachel about your whole game and not blindsiding her.

[00:50:43] It's more about just do not blindside her is my main thing.

[00:50:47] And then I spoke about like, he could have, um, he could have gone with Rachel and voted out Sam.

[00:50:52] Kind of another tweener decision for me.

[00:50:54] Um, I think, you know, Sam, I think he might want to sit next to Rachel more.

[00:51:01] Possibly, even though that might seem a little crazy because Rachel's seen as the biggest threat,

[00:51:05] but he specifically, if she doesn't get that win over him, which we're talking about,

[00:51:08] it's so good for her story.

[00:51:09] If he can sit next to her and be like, are you going to, I made her look foolish three times.

[00:51:12] And she might be like, but I defended and talk about, again, the way I've argued for her.

[00:51:16] But, um, sitting next to Sam might be worse for him.

[00:51:20] I think Rachel's a bigger competitor, um, challenge, fire.

[00:51:24] So do you think, did you, would you have entertained voting out Sam?

[00:51:27] Or do you think he was right to target Rachel as he did?

[00:51:33] Um, I think he was right in the moment.

[00:51:39] I, I probably would have also wanted to try to target her.

[00:51:44] And with everyone being on the same page, and I know you never have an easy vote,

[00:51:49] but when you really do feel like everyone is on the same page,

[00:51:53] do you really want to ruffle those feathers that late in the game?

[00:51:57] Yeah. Yeah. I, I probably would have voted for her.

[00:52:01] I think that it would have been a really, well, what it wasn't even a move because everybody was voting for her.

[00:52:07] So it wasn't like he pulled something off, um, where at least you could say you were a part of her going home with Sam going home.

[00:52:14] I mean, he's been like a dead man walking for quite some time.

[00:52:18] What, what is that going to do for your game?

[00:52:20] And she's also so smart.

[00:52:22] And I think she's also one of those players that, you know, she'll respect your gameplay.

[00:52:26] And have that argument with her to be like, Rachel, you know, when this, this and that happened, I fooled you.

[00:52:32] You know, I loved you.

[00:52:33] I hated that it had to happen that way, but I was open with you.

[00:52:37] Um, so I can, I, I probably would have aimed for Rachel unless something happened that day.

[00:52:43] I probably would have aimed for her as well.

[00:52:45] Yeah.

[00:52:45] Yeah.

[00:52:45] I think on the tweener, I think that Rachel's fine.

[00:52:47] He said in his exit, he was even more scared of sitting next to Rachel, even with the strategic wins over her than Sam.

[00:52:52] So at that point it becomes, I think, pretty clear.

[00:52:55] I think the one thing you would say about Sam is like, at least Sam gets blindsided.

[00:52:58] So he can't idle, um, you out at the point where they're just telling the target without any backup, without being able to split, um, who the target is.

[00:53:07] But at that point, yes, just, just blindside to say you're voting for Sam and convince her, um, really, really well.

[00:53:12] So I think that I would lean to that.

[00:53:14] I think that Rachel is a very big threat.

[00:53:16] And I, like, I think he could have trusted Rachel.

[00:53:18] She's not going to like, she and Sue aren't going to like 2-2-1 him and, and put themselves in that position.

[00:53:23] You can try to go to that three.

[00:53:24] She has the vote block.

[00:53:25] It is a really valid plan.

[00:53:26] He's literally the swing vote coming back from Operation Italy, which is so crazy to be, and so impressive and so good.

[00:53:31] Um, but at that point, I think that on the balance of everything, I get that Rachel at that point kind of has it all in terms of, you know, what she's bringing in and the threat level that she is.

[00:53:41] So I get taking out Rachel.

[00:53:42] But on that, I'd love to talk about Sue because Sue is huge here.

[00:53:45] Even like Rachel's like, I think thinking of trusting Andy until Andy does tell her to her face.

[00:53:50] But even before that, Sue is like, don't trust Andy, you know, locking in Sue, which Rachel does.

[00:53:56] And I thought it was so good to come to her and tell her about the idol because Sue is a loyalty player.

[00:54:01] And if she doesn't have Sue, someone is one vote splitting, probably Andy on a Sue.

[00:54:06] You know, she takes out Andy because they cannot split on the 3-2.

[00:54:09] Having Sue with her so strongly, I think is like really essential to the plan.

[00:54:16] But then there's another part of Sue where it looks like she probably won't win.

[00:54:20] So how do you see about where Sue's game is at?

[00:54:23] Because I think she did well in this episode, but it was more well to empower Rachel.

[00:54:28] How do you feel like Sue is doing to empower her game?

[00:54:30] What is the path for Sue, if any, sitting here at a final four where she should hopefully have a chance to win?

[00:54:37] One of the only things I can say is just speaking to that loyalty, which we know now when it's really only to one person, it doesn't get you that far.

[00:54:46] I didn't want to bring up Rachel again, but it really did make me give her a lot of credit.

[00:54:51] Because if you notice when Sue was looking for the idol, she didn't even hesitate.

[00:54:55] She said, look, I have it.

[00:54:56] That tells me that Rachel sat there, thought about it, did not hesitate on, oh, should I tell her?

[00:55:01] Should I not tell her?

[00:55:01] No, I'm going to tell her for a fact because I also know that Sue values this.

[00:55:05] Her number one is gone.

[00:55:06] When you have a number one that is that tight and that closely tied to you, when I look at the jury, I just think, God, she's going to have to talk to everyone and have a lot to say.

[00:55:18] And unfortunately, I don't know if she's going to have that much to say other than her number one ally that's on there, who's probably going to have to back her.

[00:55:25] And instead of asking a question, give a statement that makes her game look a little bit better to appeal to everyone else.

[00:55:32] That's going to be super difficult.

[00:55:36] Yeah, I don't have a whole lot to say on that, only because unless she has some crazy, amazing argument with which I know she kind of pulled out the idol in the last moment and said, you know, I got this idol from this area.

[00:55:47] Um, or time in the game.

[00:55:49] So she's had it for a while.

[00:55:51] It's like, what, what else are you going to be able to argue?

[00:55:54] It's really hard.

[00:55:55] I don't know.

[00:55:56] Maybe you can pull something out.

[00:55:57] Maybe your ally can help you from the juror side, but that's when I look at everybody else around you that have these different, I mean, even teeny, she said her social game was crazy.

[00:56:07] You know, like that's her strong suit.

[00:56:09] She at least has the relationship with a lot of those people.

[00:56:12] So that that's going to be an uphill battle for her for sure.

[00:56:15] I think Sue has some relationships.

[00:56:17] Like, I think if you're going to say anything about Sue, like her getting to the end as a loyalty player, the tough demographic demographic from a respect perspective.

[00:56:24] I think that it's tough from a strategic perspective in the way in the agency that she's I thought she was really good pre-merge.

[00:56:29] But through the post-merge, you know, Caroline talked about in her ex interview that she wanted to to secretly like act, you know, fractured and then secretly be strong.

[00:56:38] And I was criticizing that they actually were fractured.

[00:56:40] And a lot of that, as I've said, with Sue, there's a there's there's things to criticize strategically.

[00:56:45] But she has games.

[00:56:46] She has Caroline like hers is going to have to be on relationships.

[00:56:50] So if that's what it is and she has gotten to the end, she doesn't need to do the flashy thing because she's trying to win a loyalty game, which I think is a tough path, but I think is her most viable path at this point.

[00:56:59] But yeah, from a respect perspective, I think that Sue is the other pathway of Andy not doing Operation Italy.

[00:57:05] And I think Sue will go to the end and lose in a way that Andy might have, too, because Sue's not doing anything.

[00:57:11] If I was Sue here and trying to win on game respect and do anything, she has an idol like playing that idol at the final five and not getting votes looks like nothing.

[00:57:20] You know, like I'd almost rather just save it and bring it out of final tribal council like save Genevieve, save Genevieve.

[00:57:26] And then do something and then win the challenge and then put yourself into fire and then take out Genevieve.

[00:57:31] Like that's how much you need to do it.

[00:57:33] And Andy did a big shot like that that was more successful and like such a great shot at Operation Italy.

[00:57:39] And I think that she needs to be doing that much without doing that.

[00:57:41] I still think she advanced her type of game, which is a loyalty game.

[00:57:44] I just think that that is a tough game for her to win.

[00:57:47] No, and I agree.

[00:57:48] And you can also, you know, and you hear, especially because, you know, she's saying it around camp.

[00:57:53] She holds grudges. I mean, she really does not let certain things go.

[00:57:57] Even when I saw the snippet of when she said, like, once Kyle was gone, she was like dying for him to go since, you know, the first few days.

[00:58:05] And finally it happened. And it's kind of like, I get it.

[00:58:09] But you.

[00:58:11] A lot of jurors really do respect players who are a little bit more adaptable and will just kind of let things go and just move on with the game as it should be and be able to be open.

[00:58:21] And for her to say that, you know, it kind of made me go, oh, girl, like you're not really malleable.

[00:58:26] You know, you're not really flowing the way I would have hoped you would.

[00:58:29] And having a great ally, a number one, I've been in that position.

[00:58:32] You really don't want to lose them.

[00:58:34] And it's rare to really have somebody that you're like, holy crap, this person's not going anywhere.

[00:58:38] But when you tie yourself so closely to them that it's, you know, like a big part of your game, because all I could think was to having them to at the end before she went home.

[00:58:50] I was thinking, how would they differentiate themselves?

[00:58:53] And anytime I see a player with such a close tie to somebody else that it's hard for me to wonder and make an argument for how they would differentiate their games from each other.

[00:59:02] I go, oh, that's going to either one of you making it to the end.

[00:59:06] That's going to be difficult because everybody's going to always say, well, that was Sue.

[00:59:09] Well, that was Carol. You know, like how do you guys separate yourselves?

[00:59:14] Especially when Caroline seems like the alpha in that pair.

[00:59:18] Yeah, exactly.

[00:59:19] So that's even worse.

[00:59:20] I do wonder what Sue and Tini are thinking.

[00:59:22] Like at the point where Operation Italy has worked and Andy is now like a bigger threat.

[00:59:28] And maybe Andy covers well enough by like tricking, you know, Tini into that it wasn't like a whole master plan.

[00:59:34] But like they know that Genevieve is a huge threat.

[00:59:36] They know that Rachel is a huge threat.

[00:59:37] They know that Sam has been spoken about as a threat.

[00:59:39] Andy's now a threat.

[00:59:40] Like where are they looking at who they can beat?

[00:59:42] Um, because Tini says that at the Gen, when Genevieve goes to five at the tribal council,

[00:59:47] that like this will be like winning or a losing move.

[00:59:50] And it's not actually like you've been given the gift of space the way that the way that Andy was like when you can't win,

[00:59:56] like, okay, it gets so fun.

[00:59:57] It's like you're playing with house money, except that money is a lack of money because you're not going to win.

[01:00:00] You know, like do anything, anything, anything is a good move.

[01:00:03] Like, even if it makes you from zero to one, just do anything.

[01:00:07] Like imagine the freedom to just freaking play your idol on this person, maybe go home, like do it, anything.

[01:00:13] So I don't know what they think.

[01:00:16] Um, yeah, I don't know what they think that the pathway is for them.

[01:00:20] I don't know, but they better get it together soon because if they don't have a good argument.

[01:00:24] Yeah, like you got like 24 hours, girl.

[01:00:27] Um, and I think also sometimes like if Tini says something at tribal council about, you know,

[01:00:36] like Genevieve kind of pulling the wool over her eyes again and again, I'm like, girl, don't say that.

[01:00:40] Oh my gosh.

[01:00:41] Like, why are you saying that?

[01:00:43] Tini is nothing if not very honest.

[01:00:45] You know, and which is great because that kind of fosters, you know, some really amazing relationships.

[01:00:51] Um, but then me as Genevieve on the jury, I'm going to be like, guys, like she wasn't even on it.

[01:00:58] You know, then Andy goes, oh, we've totally lied to her.

[01:01:00] She just like went along with it.

[01:01:02] So where's that respect going to come from?

[01:01:04] Especially if you're also admitting that you just didn't know.

[01:01:09] And we've, I mean, blind sides don't happen without somebody being in the dark.

[01:01:12] I've been in the dark.

[01:01:13] Other people that I've worked with, played with, or were completely on opposite sides of have been in the dark.

[01:01:18] But where do you go after that?

[01:01:21] That's what's important.

[01:01:22] And if you're continuing to be in the dark, like you said, that gives you space to just say, screw it.

[01:01:27] Let me just figure something out.

[01:01:28] And I wish there would have been a moment where, at least in these last few episodes, where I was like, yes, Tini is on it.

[01:01:34] She's got it going, you know?

[01:01:36] And the thing is, you know, it really kills me.

[01:01:38] This is what I wanted to say.

[01:01:39] She doesn't listen to her gut.

[01:01:42] She does not listen to her gut.

[01:01:43] I used to tell myself, please try not to let anyone manipulate you.

[01:01:48] If your gut is telling you something, go with it to the best of your ability.

[01:01:52] And there's so many times I see Tini say something because they always include it.

[01:01:56] They always show Tini, that's not true.

[01:01:59] Why would we do that?

[01:02:00] That makes no sense.

[01:02:01] Yet she allows that other person to kind of bulldoze over her and say, forget what your gut is telling you or what your brain is saying is fact.

[01:02:10] Just go with me.

[01:02:11] And she does.

[01:02:12] And I'm just like, girl, listen to your gut.

[01:02:15] You know something is wrong.

[01:02:17] Like, you know, and you're saying it.

[01:02:19] So that's something if I was a juror, I'd be like, girl, you didn't, you know, you kind of just allowed other people to take the lead.

[01:02:25] Yeah.

[01:02:26] But I do think her gut is getting worse.

[01:02:27] Like her gut reminds me of how my gut was when I traveled to Canada earlier in the year.

[01:02:33] And the layover, for reasons, ended up being really short.

[01:02:36] I was flying for 24 of 25 hours.

[01:02:39] I was on the ground for an hour.

[01:02:40] You know, at the start, my gut was fine and my stomach was fine.

[01:02:43] By the end, I was throwing up into a bag.

[01:02:45] And that's where Tini's gut has gotten, I think.

[01:02:48] Because I think that it was so compelling, the montage of like, Tini's been so spun around that Tini doesn't know what's real anymore versus what is fake.

[01:02:55] And I think it's so much harder to read it when they feel like divorced from reality to a degree.

[01:02:59] So I think that the gut is hard.

[01:03:01] And I think that that was shown so well.

[01:03:03] And I want to talk about it in Genevieve Bluffing the Idol.

[01:03:06] Now, this is without my gut being spun around and with like all the nourishment in the world and well, you know, slept and rested and fed and all those things.

[01:03:15] I even then was like trying to work out how to try and read Genevieve.

[01:03:19] And I want to talk about this because I think bluffing on an idol at five where you're not trying to bluff it through a round, like it's the last time you can play it.

[01:03:24] So I want to talk about like how you can try and read Genevieve's bluff here because I think it's really difficult.

[01:03:30] But I will say, firstly, on the decision for all of them of should they vote for Genevieve or not?

[01:03:36] How is this even a question for not even on the bluff and on what Genevieve said?

[01:03:40] And I want to talk about that.

[01:03:41] But Rachel's immune.

[01:03:43] And for Rachel, if it's a 1% chance that the idol is fake, Rachel should do it.

[01:03:47] Like worst case scenario, you lose a Tini.

[01:03:50] Like Rachel needs Genevieve out from a challenge perspective, from a jury perspective.

[01:03:53] I think Genevieve could beat Rachel and she's immune.

[01:03:56] So like if it ricochets, I was like, well, that was collateral damage.

[01:03:59] So for Rachel, 100%.

[01:04:00] For Sue and for Tini, Sue's going to be immune too, firstly.

[01:04:04] And secondly, like they are goats.

[01:04:07] Like you're going to be that conservative with this type of game that you won't take the shot at the clear biggest threat because maybe she's immune.

[01:04:13] On a 50-50, I think surely you have to do it.

[01:04:16] So firstly on that, I think they all have to do it.

[01:04:18] But also on the bluff.

[01:04:20] What did you think about this with Genevieve bluffing the idol?

[01:04:22] So Sam comes and is like, idol is fake.

[01:04:26] Sam and Genevieve in cahoots and the idol is not fake.

[01:04:28] But they're trying to say that so that you vote for them.

[01:04:31] And now it ricochets.

[01:04:32] It's a tough bluff.

[01:04:33] So what did you think about this ploy?

[01:04:37] So it was very hot.

[01:04:40] Like I'll go back like to the initial bluff when she told Tini that it was real.

[01:04:45] I literally paused the show and I was talking to my partner.

[01:04:49] I said, oh, my gosh.

[01:04:51] And of course, I'm a viewer.

[01:04:52] Right.

[01:04:52] But I'm like, what?

[01:04:54] B.S.

[01:04:55] This is ridiculous.

[01:04:56] That was actually dumb to me.

[01:04:57] And he was like, why?

[01:04:59] And I was like, all I could think was you're my opposition.

[01:05:04] Because at that point in time, I know they tell Tini stuff, but like you're my opposition.

[01:05:10] You tell me, yeah, keep all the votes on me because I have an idol.

[01:05:13] You barely flash it because somebody might become me.

[01:05:16] I've had people and I'm saying this from experience.

[01:05:19] They have an idol.

[01:05:21] I mean, Jordi was like, boom, here it is right in your face.

[01:05:23] Don't even care.

[01:05:24] Here you go.

[01:05:25] It's not like a meek.

[01:05:26] It was very meek and like, well, I don't really want to show you why.

[01:05:30] You have it as yours.

[01:05:31] I can't steal it from you.

[01:05:32] You know, that was my first thought.

[01:05:34] And then you're being my opposition.

[01:05:35] You're like, yep, make sure everything is on me.

[01:05:37] Yep, that's good.

[01:05:38] And I'm like, that's almost a little bit too.

[01:05:41] It didn't make sense.

[01:05:43] Yeah, we said that.

[01:05:44] If Tini had thought about it, it's not how an actual idol.

[01:05:49] That's how you always have to think about anything about bluffs.

[01:05:50] If they actually have the idol, what will they do?

[01:05:53] I think that's tricky for Genevieve in this situation.

[01:05:55] But that's how you have to try and get your head around what.

[01:05:58] Yeah, and making sure you're, I feel like there's many times I see this, and I'm not

[01:06:03] going to say I'm not guilty of it, where people put players in kind of like a lump where it's

[01:06:10] like, wait, but think about the person you're talking to.

[01:06:13] This is Genevieve.

[01:06:14] Is she really just going to be like, yeah, no, this.

[01:06:16] Yep, cool.

[01:06:17] Yep.

[01:06:17] You know, like what?

[01:06:18] That's really out of character.

[01:06:20] I don't know.

[01:06:21] It rubbed me the wrong way.

[01:06:23] And then with the bluff later on, I get why they were so apprehensive on whether to believe

[01:06:31] Sam or not.

[01:06:33] I get, I almost wish that either it was shown or like more of a conversation was had because

[01:06:40] you look at him and he's like, I just want to make sure I don't want to, I don't go home.

[01:06:44] Like, you know, y'all are on opposing sides.

[01:06:46] Why would he need to tell you that?

[01:06:48] Um, and of course, Andy's not there to confirm it because now he's on the jury.

[01:06:53] Um, I like the fact that she brought it up during tribal council to be like, I don't know,

[01:06:57] because that's such a high pressure situation.

[01:06:59] I want to see how you guys react.

[01:07:01] And maybe that's where, you know, the bluff kind of, although it didn't work out, she still

[01:07:06] made her decision, but it took her longer because they show the little snippet of like

[01:07:09] Sam smiling at Genevieve.

[01:07:11] Like, oh yeah, you know, I told her whatever.

[01:07:13] Then it's kind of like, are you guys tricking me?

[01:07:15] I don't know when, when you're talking on the Island and when you're talking in jury,

[01:07:19] somebody can say the same thing and you have completely different interpretations of it.

[01:07:23] I've been there where I'm just like, holy crap.

[01:07:24] They said that earlier, but did they actually mean it the complete opposite way?

[01:07:28] I have no idea.

[01:07:29] So I, I think Sam should have just went about it another way just to secure, like let Teenie

[01:07:34] know this is legit, like fake.

[01:07:37] I don't think he convinced her well enough.

[01:07:39] Um, but something still went right where maybe Teenie finally listened to her gut and was like,

[01:07:45] nah, it's fake.

[01:07:46] Screw it.

[01:07:46] Let's just take the shot because no matter what, I want her gone and I want to at least

[01:07:50] try to have done it.

[01:07:51] Well, I mean, on Sam, and we've had questions around like, should Sam have outed the idol

[01:07:56] earlier?

[01:07:56] Because obviously outing it at five when he is desperate, um, you know, like, like it's

[01:08:02] hard to then read it and it makes it seem like he's lying.

[01:08:06] Um, because again, like, again, like if they actually have the idol and want to use it,

[01:08:11] this is why it's so hard to read.

[01:08:12] He would do the same thing.

[01:08:13] If he wants the votes off him anyway, um, just to not go home, which he is, then he

[01:08:18] would say it's fake, which is true.

[01:08:19] But also if they want to ricochet and take someone out, um, and they have the idol either

[01:08:24] way, I mean, like, yeah, he never wants them to vote for him at final five.

[01:08:26] So either way, like they wanted to ricochet.

[01:08:28] I think the one thing that you can say is like, if they actually have an idol, maybe they

[01:08:32] just say, Hey, let's not say anything.

[01:08:33] You have implicit immunity.

[01:08:34] Genevieve, play the idol on me.

[01:08:36] And we can ricochet that way.

[01:08:37] But I think it's also possible that if Genevieve has the idol, if you're thinking about it

[01:08:41] like that, she would say, no, I'm definitely protecting myself.

[01:08:44] I'm not taking that risk just to save you, especially if the Alliance game is over.

[01:08:47] This is the final vote.

[01:08:48] Um, so I do think again, like, yeah, if, if it's real, um, they want to ricochet it,

[01:08:53] he would say it's fake.

[01:08:54] If it's not real, he doesn't want the votes anyway.

[01:08:57] It's really hard to read that.

[01:08:59] But I don't think that you, for Sam said earlier, because I think it's severing options.

[01:09:04] I think that in the high likelihood or high possibility that a good challenge competitor

[01:09:08] like Genevieve wins at five, you know, she, she seems to really want to work with Sam.

[01:09:12] Then it seems like Sam has an idol, you know, so that could change everything for them.

[01:09:16] So I think he has to do it in the moment and he does.

[01:09:19] Um, and then in terms of like reading it for everyone else, um, okay.

[01:09:24] I thought way too much about what the idol holder do.

[01:09:28] And what I think is really hard about this is that as a bluff, like Sam, as a bluff, I'm

[01:09:34] going to try and explain this because it was late at night.

[01:09:37] If it's a bluff and if she has an idol and she's working with Sam, they will do the same

[01:09:41] thing.

[01:09:42] So that's what makes it tough.

[01:09:43] If Sam's going to say she doesn't have an idol because she does.

[01:09:47] And they want it to ricochet.

[01:09:48] She should say, you know, I, oh, I don't have the idol.

[01:09:52] I'm a sitting duck.

[01:09:53] So that it ricochets, but also she does have the idol and is a sitting duck.

[01:09:59] But you also want to say that if you're bluffing, I think in the hope that they think that's

[01:10:03] too obvious.

[01:10:03] So it's very much that like, they know we don't, they don't know.

[01:10:07] We know, we know from friends that is really, really hard to pass out.

[01:10:11] Um, Genevieve isn't doing any of this.

[01:10:13] She genuinely is caught out by Sam and Teenie and is genuinely telling Teenie I'm, you know,

[01:10:19] I'm, I'm a sitting duck.

[01:10:21] And I think Teenie reads that genuineness really well to be like, it's fake.

[01:10:25] And Teenie's got actually right on that.

[01:10:26] But then I also don't judge Rachel and Sue for being like, no, I think it's real.

[01:10:30] Because again, if it is real, that's exactly what Genevieve should be doing and would be

[01:10:34] saying.

[01:10:35] So it's really, really difficult to like bluff an idol at five where you want the votes

[01:10:39] on you.

[01:10:39] You know, you're going to be safe.

[01:10:41] Negating things is actually great.

[01:10:42] Like Sue doesn't negate anything.

[01:10:44] You want to get the votes and get your target out.

[01:10:46] Especially when the option is Sam, who Genevieve will talk about.

[01:10:50] Genevieve doesn't want Sam to go.

[01:10:51] So Genevieve would do the same thing.

[01:10:53] And I think that that makes it really, really tough because you can't, like last week, Genevieve

[01:10:58] bluffing the idol was not what an idol holder would do.

[01:11:01] But this week, Genevieve saying, I don't have the idol is what an idol holder would do.

[01:11:05] But Genevieve also doesn't have the idol.

[01:11:07] And it's also what a non-idol holder would do in the hope that you think it's too obvious

[01:11:10] that you put votes.

[01:11:11] So am I making sense?

[01:11:12] Because I spun myself around like I was on that plane to Canada.

[01:11:16] But I think it makes sense to me.

[01:11:19] No, you make sense.

[01:11:20] And that's why they were so turned around.

[01:11:22] That's why I was the topic of conversation that entire day.

[01:11:26] It's very confusing.

[01:11:28] And all you can do is say like, I'm this close.

[01:11:30] I don't want to make a mistake.

[01:11:32] So a few days ago, you might have been like, nah, screw it.

[01:11:34] Let's vote for her.

[01:11:35] And it would have been a few discussions had this time.

[01:11:38] It's the entire day that you guys just cannot stop talking about it because it's it's the

[01:11:41] end of the game.

[01:11:42] I'm not going to sit here and and make a mistake right now, especially with something like

[01:11:46] this.

[01:11:47] And I think I almost criticized Sam at the beginning for telling Tini, because like he

[01:11:52] said, when you want something to go around camp, you just tell Tini.

[01:11:55] And I'm like, but she's been so off about things.

[01:11:57] Is that the effective way to go about it?

[01:11:59] Because if she comes back, just like it literally what happens to and Rachel are like,

[01:12:04] nah, I don't think so.

[01:12:06] Like, nah.

[01:12:08] And I genuinely think that's because it's coming from Tini.

[01:12:11] If it had come or if Sam had pulled one of them aside, they might have still questioned

[01:12:15] him because they're on opposing sides.

[01:12:17] They're not that close.

[01:12:18] But if he was really desperate, wanted to make sure he was staying in the game and Genevieve

[01:12:22] went instead.

[01:12:23] I always think to myself, I want to go to somebody who's really going to take me seriously.

[01:12:27] Obviously, I've done it myself where I warned another person that their partner was going

[01:12:34] to possibly go home.

[01:12:36] And they went back, told that person, they're like, holy crap.

[01:12:39] I think that she's telling the truth because of the channels I went through.

[01:12:43] If I had went to that individual first, they would have been like, girl, we don't talk.

[01:12:46] Like, that's weird.

[01:12:48] I don't know about this.

[01:12:49] A lot of questions.

[01:12:50] But because of the path I took, it was way more effective.

[01:12:54] So I think the path is what caused all those questions, which is good for Genevieve, you

[01:12:59] know, but at the end of the day, still went home.

[01:13:02] But yeah, I was just questioning the path he took to make sure it was on her and not

[01:13:07] him.

[01:13:08] I think there could have been a more effective path.

[01:13:10] But I honestly can understand why they were so turned around, why you were so turned around,

[01:13:15] because I was thinking the same thing.

[01:13:17] This isn't day five, where you can kind of regroup tomorrow and have the knowledge of

[01:13:23] what it looks like when a person fits or when a person is lying.

[01:13:26] When you can really look at somebody and know, based on evidence after a tribal council, this

[01:13:32] is what they look like when they're lying.

[01:13:34] This is how they act afterwards.

[01:13:36] We can make a more effective and fact-based choice where at that point in time, it's like,

[01:13:43] oh my God, I don't know.

[01:13:44] I don't know.

[01:13:45] Yeah.

[01:13:45] Yeah.

[01:13:46] I totally understand.

[01:13:48] Yeah.

[01:13:48] Even from then, you know, I thought was crazy.

[01:13:50] It's like, she and Sam have to turn on each other here.

[01:13:53] But like, I also think that they didn't even seem to want to, like they should want to

[01:13:57] turn on each other, you know, even if they have the idol, she should want Sam to go home.

[01:14:01] And I thought that was crazy to me.

[01:14:03] And that that's funny because all I could think was after Teenie went up to her, because

[01:14:08] this was still on the island.

[01:14:09] She said, Sam told me your idol was fake.

[01:14:12] I would have went into like rampage mode and been like, okay, what can I do with this to

[01:14:18] make sure he goes home?

[01:14:20] And I feel like we didn't get that.

[01:14:22] Or at least we didn't see it because I'm like, oh my God, you know that he's trying to

[01:14:26] secure his place in the game.

[01:14:28] Like anybody else.

[01:14:29] He beat you to the punch though.

[01:14:31] Like what you weren't really turning on him.

[01:14:33] You hadn't done anything.

[01:14:34] We at least didn't see her making an attempt to make sure the vote wasn't on her.

[01:14:38] He did it first.

[01:14:39] He pulled that trigger first.

[01:14:41] And it feels like she kind of was like, well, you know, all right, cool.

[01:14:45] Well, I'm like, girl, I would have been like, nah, Sam's lying.

[01:14:48] And you know, like at least do or no, maybe he's telling the truth to make, you know, them

[01:14:53] kind of question it.

[01:14:54] But yeah, well, you're kind of desperate because you have an idol.

[01:14:57] You're definitely safe, right?

[01:14:58] So yeah, it's like so hot.

[01:15:00] Yeah.

[01:15:01] Yeah.

[01:15:02] I wondered what that was about too, because I thought to myself, she kind of seemed like,

[01:15:07] yeah, Teenie, it is fake.

[01:15:08] Like, you know, whatever.

[01:15:10] And yeah, I would have been like, nah, she's, she's full of it.

[01:15:14] But I was very much surprised that she wasn't shocked by the fact that Sam told.

[01:15:21] And maybe she's like, yeah, I get it.

[01:15:22] It's the end of the game.

[01:15:23] You want to kind of save yourself.

[01:15:25] But I thought there would have been action after that.

[01:15:27] They seemed kind of just like, it was a secret scene actually.

[01:15:30] Was there?

[01:15:31] I didn't see it.

[01:15:32] It was a really, I retweeted it and Sam tweeted it.

[01:15:34] It was a really good secret scene.

[01:15:35] Just everyone just Google Survivor 47 episode 13 secret scenes.

[01:15:40] And I know it's a bit hard for the internationals, but yeah, it was a really cute secret scene

[01:15:45] where they kind of are like, well, I guess we have to go against each other.

[01:15:48] I mean, they have to go against each other at the point where she's not immune.

[01:15:51] Rachel's going out anyway.

[01:15:51] But it's just more, I think that they should want to go against each other because Rachel

[01:15:55] is the person you're trying to get out at four.

[01:15:57] So you're saying if you, if you, if they worked, if they had an idol and they were trying to

[01:16:01] idol out like a teeny, then they're saying that they're looking to sit next to each other,

[01:16:05] which I think would be a big mistake.

[01:16:07] So, but the whole like bluff would hinge on that, which is lucky because that seems to be

[01:16:13] what they actually wanted to do.

[01:16:14] So it was believable.

[01:16:15] Anyway, I feel like I've been on a plane for 25 hours, but I will, the one more thing on this

[01:16:19] that I want to talk about Sam was that Teenie actually after 30 seconds in the voting booth

[01:16:24] or minutes seemingly voted for Sam.

[01:16:26] And I think said on Twitter that it was a split vote, which I buy.

[01:16:31] I don't think it makes sense as a split vote for the reasons that I will explain.

[01:16:34] And I think will make sense, which is that this is a one vote split vote.

[01:16:39] So it only works if Sam is with you and Genevieve, like they're all voting for Genevieve.

[01:16:43] You're one vote for Sam.

[01:16:44] Genevieve votes for say Teenie.

[01:16:45] But the reason that doesn't work is that if Sam is with you, he's telling the truth

[01:16:49] that the idol is fake.

[01:16:50] So you don't need a split vote.

[01:16:51] And if Sam isn't with you and it's a bluff and there's two of them, then your one vote

[01:16:55] split vote doesn't work.

[01:16:56] You will lose two to one when Genevieve plays it.

[01:16:58] I think that makes sense, but hard on the island, but I don't understand how this

[01:17:02] split vote makes sense for me personally.

[01:17:04] Yeah.

[01:17:04] Anyway, I don't know how in the weeds people are getting with this, but I want that.

[01:17:10] A couple of things before we talk about Sam's game and then get to the chizzy.

[01:17:16] Genevieve at six.

[01:17:18] Is there a world here where Genevieve should use Rachel as a shield and say, hey, Rachel,

[01:17:25] Sue, we have the numbers with the vote block at six.

[01:17:27] Let's vote out.

[01:17:28] I mean, I think a Sam or maybe an Andy, I guess, but I probably would say a Sam so that

[01:17:35] hopefully Rachel's a shield at five, so Genevieve doesn't need to win out.

[01:17:39] Thoughts on that?

[01:17:41] Yeah, I think, could it be possible?

[01:17:44] Yes.

[01:17:45] But I think it really all depends on their relationship because, I mean, they said themselves

[01:17:49] that they're a Harry Potter and Voldemort.

[01:17:51] Yeah, I love that.

[01:17:52] Neither can live while the other survives.

[01:17:53] I think it's really cute.

[01:17:55] Yeah.

[01:17:56] As a professional 30 something year old woman, I'm loving.

[01:18:00] Well, I don't know if I'm professional.

[01:18:01] As I sit here broadcasting about Survivor, but in theory.

[01:18:05] No, I love it.

[01:18:06] And like, my thing, I almost think that speaks to their working relationship because Harry

[01:18:13] Potter and Voldemort don't work together.

[01:18:15] They don't have a moment where they kind of stop and say, yeah, like, we're okay.

[01:18:20] We can kind of do this together and then go back at it.

[01:18:24] That would be a fascinating Harry Potter book though.

[01:18:27] Yeah, honestly.

[01:18:27] Harry Potter and the one where he teams up with Voldemort, like, wow.

[01:18:31] Just throwing it out there.

[01:18:32] Out of nowhere.

[01:18:33] Yeah, that would be crazy.

[01:18:34] It would have been crazy.

[01:18:35] But for her to use that example that instantly told me while they respect each other, nah,

[01:18:42] there's no way.

[01:18:42] I mean, Kirby and Ferris can even be like, okay, you know what I'm saying?

[01:18:47] Exactly.

[01:18:48] Is there a world?

[01:18:50] Yeah.

[01:18:51] But is that world now?

[01:18:52] No, because they already have agreed.

[01:18:55] They laugh about it.

[01:18:56] They say these things where they're just like, nah.

[01:18:58] If there was, if one of them might, my thing is, I don't think either one of them would

[01:19:03] have proposed it.

[01:19:04] I think if one of them had, the other may have been like, holy crap, everybody knows we're

[01:19:09] pretty much rivals.

[01:19:10] They would never see this coming.

[01:19:12] Sue's loyal to you, Rachel.

[01:19:14] You know, like, I think that would be sick.

[01:19:16] We could do this and flip, you know, Andy would be out, you know, in the woods and wouldn't

[01:19:21] even know what's going on.

[01:19:22] Sam would be blindsided.

[01:19:23] If Tini is here or there, would she, you know, would you be able to pull her in?

[01:19:27] Because you don't probably want to lie to her.

[01:19:29] But, and that's a great, if she ends up on the jury, a great juror vote because you

[01:19:34] didn't blindside her in the same way that Andy had, you know, in the past.

[01:19:39] So I think there's a world, if somebody would have taken that first step, I don't think

[01:19:43] either one of these women would have done it because of the way they talk about each

[01:19:46] other.

[01:19:47] Yeah.

[01:19:48] Yeah.

[01:19:48] I also, I think for me, there is such a respect there that you would think that they could

[01:19:51] work together on it.

[01:19:53] The issue for me is that they're not good shields for each other because they're mostly just

[01:19:57] competing against each other in immunity.

[01:19:59] So like, so firstly, I don't actually don't think that Rachel is a shield for Genevieve.

[01:20:03] I think that Genevieve still goes over Rachel at five.

[01:20:06] If there's a choice, maybe not on the fire capability.

[01:20:09] So maybe there's a shield there.

[01:20:10] But the other thing is that they're each other's biggest immunity competitor.

[01:20:14] So if you keep Rachel, you're actually less likely to an immunity, which at that point

[01:20:17] is Genevieve's path.

[01:20:18] Yeah.

[01:20:19] You know, well, Rachel is doing anything to keep her idol at six.

[01:20:23] And also Rachel had an idol.

[01:20:25] So Genevieve didn't know that.

[01:20:25] So Rachel would have been a really bad shield.

[01:20:27] But without knowing that, I do think that you kind of want to beat each other at immunity.

[01:20:32] Like Rachel's not a shield to you when she's taken your immunity and is immune and can't

[01:20:36] even be voted for.

[01:20:37] And now like definitely Genevieve's out.

[01:20:38] So I do get taking Rachel out the path for Genevieve is just winning out.

[01:20:42] And that cleared that the best.

[01:20:44] But I do think it's an interesting thought because obviously Genevieve is going to go

[01:20:46] at five and like anything to try and protect that she didn't have to win.

[01:20:51] But yeah, I just don't.

[01:20:52] Obviously with the idol, it wouldn't have come off.

[01:20:53] And I don't know even without knowing that if, you know, there's enough there.

[01:20:57] If Rachel's not an immunity threat, but it's like an otherwise threat and maybe a fire

[01:21:01] threat.

[01:21:02] And they figure out at five.

[01:21:04] I do think there's something there, but not with her challenge prowess.

[01:21:07] And then the last thing I want to talk about before we get to the chizzy is Sam.

[01:21:11] Sam, who I've given a 10% chance to win, who I think is second most likely to win over

[01:21:15] Rachel.

[01:21:16] Where do we see his game?

[01:21:17] Do you think he could beat Rachel?

[01:21:18] How high are you on Sam as a player?

[01:21:23] Um, I think there's a possibility.

[01:21:26] I always think I say, never say never.

[01:21:30] There's always a possibility for anyone as long as they can argue.

[01:21:33] Right.

[01:21:34] And.

[01:21:36] Oh my gosh.

[01:21:37] I, I would say he can at least argue.

[01:21:41] In a way because he hasn't been like an ally of her.

[01:21:45] So there's nothing overly tying each other, you know, like intertwining their games where

[01:21:48] you're like, can you differentiate yourself from this person in the way that, you know,

[01:21:52] we saw Caroline and Sue, um, I don't know.

[01:21:58] I just, I think Rachel literally would have it against anyone.

[01:22:01] So I don't want to discount his game.

[01:22:04] I just know and have recognized a lot more about hers that I'm like, what could you really

[01:22:10] say?

[01:22:11] Unless she fumbles the bag and gets tongue tied, which even if she does, the jury probably

[01:22:17] recognizes a lot of things that she's done without even having to tell them.

[01:22:21] Um, so I don't want to discount his game, but I honestly don't have like a really good

[01:22:27] answer for that question.

[01:22:29] Well, I think that with him, his game is quite imperceptible.

[01:22:33] You know, that's a word.

[01:22:34] Um, I think so he, the, the, the, his, his target as a threat has been so interesting

[01:22:41] to me.

[01:22:41] Like we talked about this earlier in the season when there was a bit of like what Steven

[01:22:45] calls hot bias.

[01:22:46] I called the patriarchy, this aura.

[01:22:48] He had a good pre-merge, but he fell off quickly.

[01:22:50] Other people have had great pre-merges.

[01:22:51] You think of like a Romeo, Romeo didn't get to coast on that, you know, as a threat through

[01:22:55] to, to the finale.

[01:22:57] Um, so in some ways I think the archetype is tough and in some ways he has to wear having

[01:23:01] the aura of a threat that made him, that limited him in many ways.

[01:23:05] You know, Rachel had that, but also I think like actively kind of went under at times,

[01:23:09] like really like one allies that wanted to work with her through the mid game.

[01:23:13] And then when she did become a threat, earned that through what she was doing and protected

[01:23:17] it well, like she had to make good on it by having these things that would make her a target,

[01:23:21] but that also protected her.

[01:23:22] And she did it.

[01:23:22] I think that it's a little more, a little bit, well, it's again, she's in the situation

[01:23:26] herself, but she's controlling that and defending it really well.

[01:23:29] Sam is a threat kind of beyond what he's capable of just on archetype, but it's unable to control

[01:23:34] it.

[01:23:35] It's unable to get, you know, kind of back from it.

[01:23:36] And then when he stops being a threat, it's less of a win.

[01:23:39] Like for Rachel, it's like, okay, you are a threat, but you've protected.

[01:23:43] You've won your own protection on idols, on immunity wins for Sam.

[01:23:47] It feels like when he gets through, it's because people choose other threats over him,

[01:23:51] you know, coming into this episode, even coming off the loss of Operation Italy, Jeff is like,

[01:23:55] Rachel is the biggest threat.

[01:23:56] So now Rachel and Genevieve are the big threat to the point where I'm like, how was Sam even

[01:24:00] an option over Genevieve last week?

[01:24:01] Like she seems like such a bigger threat and he becomes a bigger threat.

[01:24:05] People are choosing to let him through rather than him being a threat, but assuring his own

[01:24:09] safety, which I think is more impressive for Rachel.

[01:24:11] So I think the kind of like lack of control of that is hard.

[01:24:16] In saying that, like, I do think he, like, I think Rachel would be a solid winner.

[01:24:19] I think he would be a slightly less solid, but still solid winner.

[01:24:22] I'd rank him probably just below her on new era winners.

[01:24:26] Like I might put, you know, I might put Rachel like, you know, above Kenzie.

[01:24:31] I might put Sam like below Kenzie, but they're all kind of in this like three to four to five

[01:24:36] range for me.

[01:24:38] But yeah, I do give more to Rachel.

[01:24:39] Rachel, I think she's had higher highs when they both had gaps.

[01:24:43] And everyone in this cast, as I've said, has not been perfect, which has made it so,

[01:24:46] so compelling.

[01:24:47] They've outplayed each other at different times.

[01:24:49] She outplays them at six.

[01:24:50] He's outplayed her at seven.

[01:24:51] And in the pre-merge, the God of three who were all together on the beach are so fascinating

[01:24:55] to me.

[01:24:56] And so I do think there's stuff there.

[01:24:58] Hers isn't a perfect game to his terrible game.

[01:25:01] They're both a solid game with gaps.

[01:25:03] But I think that she has more.

[01:25:05] And yeah, at the point where she's been such a threat, if she gets to the end with anyone,

[01:25:08] including Sam, I think that it is done.

[01:25:10] Yeah.

[01:25:11] And I think I really like your point about people choosing other threats over him.

[01:25:15] There is such a difference and such a delicate balance where you want to tone down your threat

[01:25:21] level or like Rachel defend against it versus putting yourself and lowering that threat level

[01:25:28] so much that people are like, nah, not even worried about that person.

[01:25:31] Now you've gone too far.

[01:25:34] And that is such a delicate balance, so hard.

[01:25:37] And like you said, I mean, even Teenie kind of hit on it.

[01:25:39] I can't remember exactly the comment she made, but you know, kind of like a frat guy walking

[01:25:43] around like this, this and that.

[01:25:45] He can't control.

[01:25:45] He did not enjoy that.

[01:25:46] Yeah.

[01:25:46] And he can't control the way he looks, you know, but then he's toned

[01:25:51] on his threat level so much that at least, you know, we see where people are making those

[01:25:54] choices to be like, we're not even worried about him.

[01:25:56] Now that's a concern.

[01:25:57] You don't want to be such a threat that you're targeted every freaking tribal council, but

[01:26:02] you don't want to turn it down so much that you end up in the finale.

[01:26:06] People are like, dude, what happened to you?

[01:26:08] Like, I think I remember a little bit here.

[01:26:10] I wasn't even on your tribe, so I don't know what you did before, but we're not really

[01:26:13] worried about pre-merge.

[01:26:15] We're worried about post-merge when we were together, when all this craziness was going

[01:26:19] on.

[01:26:19] How did you play a part in that?

[01:26:21] So he might just have to be worried about that.

[01:26:23] Well, you know, we talk about like, he can't control how he looks, right?

[01:26:26] Like that's a threat level that got away from him that he couldn't get back.

[01:26:29] And then like, even when it was diminished, that was like a bad thing.

[01:26:32] It's like, now other people are above you compared to someone you played with a winner

[01:26:36] in your season, who is a big guy in Mark Wales and talked some really impressive stuff.

[01:26:41] I think around minimizing that physically was like, I will always sit low in the water.

[01:26:47] And we've seen like, I think like Jeremy also talked about like being low, you know,

[01:26:50] like kind of like shrinking yourself when you're a bigger guy.

[01:26:53] And I think that that's like some really advanced thinking.

[01:26:56] Again, I don't think Sam has managed that.

[01:26:57] He wanted to be the wolf in wolf's clothing.

[01:27:00] And I think, I mean, I guess it kind of was, but he wanted to be the glue guy.

[01:27:03] He wanted to be more under the radar, more of a surprising pick.

[01:27:05] And he couldn't protect how people just saw him and how limited that made like the early

[01:27:11] merge game for him.

[01:27:13] Whereas like you played with someone like Mark, who I think did a lot of that really well.

[01:27:16] So do you kind of see a difference there in like having played with someone like that,

[01:27:19] who obviously goes on to win the game?

[01:27:21] It's these little things that you don't know until the season is done or until you talk

[01:27:25] to that individual about the things that they did intentionally that you're like, holy crap,

[01:27:30] who would have thought like the human psyche changes?

[01:27:34] I mean, and Mark is like freaking, I don't even know, six foot six.

[01:27:39] Like he's an enormous guy, military background.

[01:27:42] He was so open about his military stories as well, showing how strong he is yet physically,

[01:27:49] like you said, he would always sit low in the water when we would sit there and I'm holding

[01:27:53] the flag.

[01:27:53] I still remember this day.

[01:27:54] It was, I mean, blistering heat out in Australia.

[01:27:57] I was holding the flag and he was sitting down in the shade below me.

[01:28:02] And I'm like looking down at him, you know, in the rocks and stuff.

[01:28:04] And honestly, he probably was tired, but I think that he was so intentional in every single

[01:28:10] moment.

[01:28:10] And that goes to show you when somebody's playing to win, not that Sam isn't, but when

[01:28:15] somebody's playing to win with experience, with thought, because Mark did it day in and

[01:28:20] day out, he didn't let up.

[01:28:22] That perception was solid from the beginning.

[01:28:25] You never saw him change all of a sudden where I'm like, this dude is towering over me constantly.

[01:28:30] He was very aware of what he looked like, what his occupation was, and he didn't hide

[01:28:35] from it.

[01:28:36] He just changed the way it was presented to everyone.

[01:28:39] And if Sam wins, Sam doesn't win.

[01:28:42] He comes to another season, ever has another opportunity, whether it's on Survivor or somewhere

[01:28:46] else, I bet you he's going to have a completely different mindset about how to approach when

[01:28:53] others perceive him just based on his looks.

[01:28:56] Mark dealt with it once and adapted.

[01:28:59] Unfortunately, it had to be between seasons.

[01:29:01] And at this point, we're in Final Four.

[01:29:04] So for Sam, if he ever comes back again, it's going to be the same for him between seasons.

[01:29:08] But if somebody had told him that ahead of time and been like, bro, you know, do these

[01:29:13] things, do that, we would have seen a different Sam.

[01:29:15] And that perception wouldn't have been there.

[01:29:17] But I just have to give Mark props because when I was watching it back and when he would

[01:29:21] tell me the things that he would do on purpose, I'm like, dude, that's cool.

[01:29:25] You are insane.

[01:29:26] Like I, and the fact that you can follow through, those are the impressive people.

[01:29:30] The people who no matter how many 47 days, this isn't 26, you know, this isn't 10, 5,

[01:29:37] 4, 3, 2, 1, 47 days.

[01:29:40] He stuck to it every single day.

[01:29:43] He didn't let up.

[01:29:44] He made sure that he was aware of everything he did because of his physical attributes that

[01:29:50] he couldn't control.

[01:29:51] Those are the winner type people.

[01:29:53] And so I, you know, good luck to Sam for winning, but that's one of those things that

[01:29:57] he'll have to just learn for hopefully next time he plays if he does.

[01:30:02] Yeah.

[01:30:02] I think that the, the, the threat level and like his target got away from him in a way

[01:30:06] that I don't think he was actively protecting.

[01:30:08] I think that to me is the biggest difference between his, you know, game compared to Rachel,

[01:30:13] which is like, you know, when Sierra goes, okay, there's some stuff where he has like a

[01:30:16] relationship with Genevieve where she's maybe protecting him.

[01:30:18] And like, those are his relationships, but mostly I think they choose Sierra.

[01:30:22] And I think he's not in control of that.

[01:30:23] And it's dicey.

[01:30:24] You know, I think that for other reasons, as we've discussed with Andy, they choose, like,

[01:30:28] Rachel chooses Andy over Sam.

[01:30:31] Sam could have gone there.

[01:30:32] There are parts where I think he's not in control and it's just seen as a lesser threat

[01:30:35] than people, or it's like a tweener for them.

[01:30:37] And like, he's like at their mercy.

[01:30:39] Whereas I think when Rachel was a big threat, every time she's protected herself to kind

[01:30:45] of get out of that situation.

[01:30:46] I think that that is quite a big disparity, but I still think it'd be a solid winner.

[01:30:49] I mean, I think Rachel's obviously had the flash, the idol.

[01:30:51] I think that's high highs.

[01:30:52] I think the biggest thing for Sam that would be really cool is if he wins, that is on the back

[01:30:56] of Operation Italy, which he had a huge part in, was dead to rise, was going home before

[01:31:01] that happened.

[01:31:02] And then they shifted, obviously, to put the primary on Genevieve, but he was the target

[01:31:05] there and what they wanted.

[01:31:08] And if they pulled it off and then to win from that would really be like the crowning

[01:31:12] move.

[01:31:12] I think the best moment of the season would then like, you know, turn into the win.

[01:31:16] Obviously, Rachel was blindsided by it.

[01:31:18] So that wouldn't really be a good part of the winning story.

[01:31:20] But let's talk about the Chilly, much like the kind of season coverage of like the confessionals,

[01:31:27] much like the gameplay.

[01:31:30] It's really kind of even at the top.

[01:31:33] So I'm excited about it.

[01:31:34] So take it away.

[01:31:35] Jacob Segal-Wystein and MC Color.

[01:31:37] One, two, three.

[01:31:39] One, one, one, three.

[01:31:41] One, two, one, two, three.

[01:31:42] It's getting, it's getting, it's getting kind of cheesy.

[01:31:44] Three, two, one.

[01:31:47] Right.

[01:31:47] Here are the Chilly charts.

[01:31:48] Nina, three, two, and one points for the best players this episode.

[01:31:53] I want you to go first because I'm honestly still really torn on my one point.

[01:31:56] So I need to see how it plays out.

[01:32:00] Three, two, and one for this episode.

[01:32:05] I think the three is easy for me.

[01:32:07] But otherwise, I think when one person's so clearly three.

[01:32:10] No, I can't.

[01:32:11] I don't know why one point.

[01:32:12] I think for me, because here's my thing.

[01:32:13] This is my thing for the Chilly.

[01:32:15] Rachel's going to get six points.

[01:32:17] And I kind of want to even out everyone else around her because, like, you know, no one

[01:32:22] else deserves three points, really.

[01:32:25] Like, I mean, I guess Sue, I think we'll talk about it.

[01:32:26] Sue was like part of the plan.

[01:32:27] But like when four people are telling Rachel to her face, you're going home and she's going

[01:32:31] to outplay them to that degree.

[01:32:32] Should they get like half the points that she does?

[01:32:34] Like, I think that they, there's things here for like Genevieve, even for Andy, who

[01:32:38] they both go home.

[01:32:39] Um, for Sam, who might like get a point for me, but I don't think people deserve much

[01:32:44] more to Rachel's six.

[01:32:45] The scale is wrong.

[01:32:46] She should be like, you know, on like 20 compared to everyone else for this episode.

[01:32:49] So I kind of want to game it a little bit.

[01:32:52] So what are you thinking?

[01:32:53] Let's, we can talk it out if you want, which is not how the show is.

[01:32:56] Um, three to Rachel.

[01:32:59] I feel like, of course, like that's just a given.

[01:33:02] Um, two and one across the board.

[01:33:07] It's very tough.

[01:33:10] Because Andy goes.

[01:33:12] Yeah.

[01:33:12] I mean, like what am I thinking is like Andy goes, but recovered so well from Operation Italy

[01:33:17] and Operation Italy ends up like getting teeny over as a number.

[01:33:20] Like that's all impressive to me.

[01:33:22] There's like a lot of bad, but then like in the conversation, but there's so much good

[01:33:25] before it.

[01:33:26] So I'm actually considering it.

[01:33:27] Genevieve for me, I'm considering it because after Genevieve sent out, I'm not going to

[01:33:31] home soul.

[01:33:32] I was like, I'll probably give her points every week that she survives because she shouldn't

[01:33:36] survive.

[01:33:37] And then I really haven't done that.

[01:33:38] Um, cause I felt like it was more on kind of everyone else's decisions.

[01:33:41] But when you like win an immunity at six, the fact that Genevieve in ways through Operation

[01:33:45] Italy and then through like the pathway she's found through immunity at six gets herself

[01:33:49] to five, I actually think is incredibly impressive.

[01:33:51] I think her reward picks were fair.

[01:33:53] You know, it was quite essential to get Sue over, even though they don't, um, you know,

[01:33:58] teeny is a bit of a swing there.

[01:33:59] It does obviously give Teenie the opportunity to blab and it doesn't give like a great,

[01:34:05] like if it was like Andy and Teenie, I think the three of them at the reward maybe could

[01:34:08] like really kind of cement a plan, but there was no big plan.

[01:34:10] I think they're the swings.

[01:34:11] I think the reward choices are fine.

[01:34:12] I think Genevieve, I'm strong on that first part of the episode.

[01:34:15] And then Sam obviously has a pathway to win, sells out Genevieve, which is essential, but

[01:34:21] obviously more out of necessity does survive through on a viable path.

[01:34:27] But if not, if not for Andy, he's actually gone at six.

[01:34:29] So I don't actually don't.

[01:34:31] I have to say, just because we're talking about this episode only, I can't see myself

[01:34:35] giving Andy a point.

[01:34:36] Like last episode, he gave him three.

[01:34:40] This one, he did go home.

[01:34:42] Um, and it's because he, he, like you said, they got complacent.

[01:34:46] They started dishing out things where I'm like, dude, no, don't do it.

[01:34:49] So I cannot give Andy any points for this episode.

[01:34:53] Last episode.

[01:34:54] Absolutely.

[01:34:54] I would have given him all of them, but I would say Rachel three.

[01:34:58] Yeah.

[01:34:59] Two, two, because without her, honestly, just wouldn't have happened the way.

[01:35:03] Um, and then for the one point, I, I think I want to give it to Sam because I felt like

[01:35:17] he saw an opportunity, whether to confuse them or not to confuse them.

[01:35:22] And he still took it.

[01:35:23] Teenie, like you said, I just feel like she got turned around way too much where I'm just

[01:35:27] like, I, I, I don't, it wasn't, it felt indecisive.

[01:35:32] It wasn't decisive.

[01:35:33] If she was in the booth, but you know, like it was just too indecisive for me.

[01:35:37] Rachel knew what she was doing.

[01:35:39] She was down.

[01:35:39] She, this is the plan done.

[01:35:41] Sue was on board, ready to go.

[01:35:43] That number one that she needed to make sure that everything went well.

[01:35:47] Andy's gone.

[01:35:48] He was blabbing too much.

[01:35:50] Genevieve.

[01:35:53] I would put, I would give Sam the point over Genevieve just because he saw an opportunity

[01:35:57] first and was just trying something.

[01:36:01] He was like, I just need to try something.

[01:36:05] Just because it's a two hour episode.

[01:36:07] We have two hours, which is actually way more interesting.

[01:36:10] I find that giving these points out versus in one episode, we have a little bit of the

[01:36:14] before and after.

[01:36:16] So I feel like, you know, Sam was like on board here, blindsided by the whole Andy thing,

[01:36:22] but adapted boom right here, tried something.

[01:36:25] So I would rather give him a point.

[01:36:28] So it's three, Rachel, two Sue, one Sam.

[01:36:31] I definitely get that.

[01:36:32] I think for me, I'm giving three to Rachel, two to Sue.

[01:36:34] Again, where's the path?

[01:36:36] It's on loyalty, but she did, she was essential to this plan.

[01:36:39] And then, yeah, I mean, I think it's like, if I look at six, which I think is the biggest

[01:36:43] float of the, of the episode.

[01:36:45] So I'm waiting it a little bit more.

[01:36:48] Sam was gone.

[01:36:49] Like they were all telling people to her face and Sam was gone and Andy buries himself,

[01:36:55] but that's not anything that Sam did.

[01:36:56] Whereas Genevieve protected herself to get from soul to get through to five.

[01:37:00] I think she earned that.

[01:37:02] And I think that that is important for me.

[01:37:04] Yeah.

[01:37:04] I think that again, like correct reward choices.

[01:37:07] It's not her fault that Teenie was giving a lot of information and it was working out.

[01:37:10] Like she did bluff that idol through an, you know, an episode and a half, basically.

[01:37:16] Obviously Sam has to out it.

[01:37:18] I think Sam kind of, he did it well, but he did what you should do.

[01:37:20] Like you should definitely add it at that point.

[01:37:21] And he achieves it, but he's also coming from a space where Genevieve is a bigger threat

[01:37:25] and he has more space than her.

[01:37:27] I don't know, you know, and maybe that's Genevieve's fault.

[01:37:30] So the way she's, you know, made herself a threat, but I think that's been criticized

[01:37:33] enough.

[01:37:34] I think getting to five with that threat level in ways was earned, especially here.

[01:37:38] And I want to give her the point, which is interesting because it means the charts

[01:37:41] are that Genevieve's on 25.

[01:37:43] Sam is now on 22.

[01:37:45] Andy left on 19.

[01:37:46] Sol left on 18.

[01:37:48] Oh, Rachel's actually jumped up to 19.

[01:37:51] Sue is now on 13.

[01:37:53] Caroline left on 11 and then Rome seven, Gabe four, Kyle three, Tiana and Asia one.

[01:37:57] But here's where we stand on the cheesy charts.

[01:37:59] If Rachel wins next week, she will tie with Genevieve, which on 25, which I do.

[01:38:05] And then she gets, if she has a great win, which is what I'm expecting, she would tie

[01:38:08] with Genevieve.

[01:38:08] So that would be 25 points.

[01:38:11] And they would tie, which would feel right for me.

[01:38:13] And I'd love it.

[01:38:14] Then, but Sam's now on 22.

[01:38:16] So if he gets three points next week, he could tie.

[01:38:19] If he wins the game, he'll almost definitely win the cheesy because he is, unless he wins

[01:38:23] terribly, he'd probably get six points.

[01:38:26] He could come second and, and get four points and win the cheesy.

[01:38:30] Or he could also tie.

[01:38:32] We could have a three-way tie.

[01:38:33] And a year ago when D and Drew tied, we thought, what do we do in cheesy ties?

[01:38:40] Everyone wins.

[01:38:41] Everyone wins.

[01:38:42] And we, we send everyone mugs.

[01:38:45] Rob sends everyone mugs.

[01:38:47] So that is what will happen.

[01:38:48] So it's very, very close.

[01:38:49] Like the season might seem done, but the cheesy is in a very exciting place.

[01:38:54] So that's where we're at.

[01:38:56] A part of me, because during the cheesy, we do, if there's two guests, we do two, one,

[01:39:01] one points instead of three, two, one.

[01:39:02] And we have better ones or worse ones.

[01:39:04] Parts of me feels like, should I be counting out who got more better ones and break the

[01:39:08] tie like that?

[01:39:09] But it's fine.

[01:39:09] We made a decision where everyone would win if they all tied on points and it might be

[01:39:15] a three-way tie.

[01:39:16] And I would enjoy that a lot.

[01:39:18] So that's where we're at.

[01:39:20] Nina, thank you so much.

[01:39:21] This was really, really fun.

[01:39:22] This was, it was great to break down the episode with you.

[01:39:24] Thank you for having me.

[01:39:25] I appreciate it.

[01:39:26] We had a question from Jacob Yoon, who said Nina's already an international survivor legend.

[01:39:30] Will she ever be on US Survivor?

[01:39:31] Do you think about this now that you've been on US TV, you've been on Australian Survivor?

[01:39:34] I think we combine those things.

[01:39:36] Call me, please.

[01:39:38] Yeah.

[01:39:38] Have they not called really?

[01:39:39] That's disrespectful.

[01:39:40] I know.

[01:39:41] And I'm like, that's so rude.

[01:39:43] Like I'm a survivor child.

[01:39:45] I've now been international.

[01:39:48] Like why not have a first Australian player bounce?

[01:39:53] You know what I'm saying?

[01:39:54] Anna, I'm American.

[01:39:55] You are American.

[01:39:56] I just feel like it's a win-win.

[01:39:57] You know what I'm saying?

[01:39:58] Like, come on guys.

[01:39:59] But.

[01:40:00] Yeah.

[01:40:00] I mean, a win-win.

[01:40:01] Much like Sandra was a win-win.

[01:40:04] You know.

[01:40:05] But I think as well, one of my favorite quirks of like the strangeness of Australian Survivor

[01:40:10] casting is that like you are a two-time Australian Survivor player and you just simply are not

[01:40:13] Australian.

[01:40:14] Like it's great.

[01:40:15] It's so great.

[01:40:16] Yeah.

[01:40:17] And I love the fact that I've played like over 60 something days and I'm like the average

[01:40:23] Survivor player nowadays.

[01:40:25] I mean, the average Survivor player, no matter what, has never even gone over 30.

[01:40:29] How many days?

[01:40:30] How many days have you played?

[01:40:32] Uh, 66?

[01:40:35] Yeah.

[01:40:36] More than winning two new era seasons.

[01:40:39] Yeah.

[01:40:40] Like I, I, that's great.

[01:40:43] And I absolutely love that.

[01:40:44] That I'm just like.

[01:40:46] No one's laughing that.

[01:40:47] That opportunity never comes.

[01:40:48] But I'm just like, I've played more days than the average.

[01:40:50] Even if they played two, even if they played, no, maybe three.

[01:40:53] Yeah.

[01:40:54] Two and a half times.

[01:40:55] Yeah.

[01:40:55] Like I still play more days than that.

[01:40:57] So I'm like, come on, dude.

[01:40:59] You guys have seen me make it to final five in 44 days.

[01:41:03] Like imagine what I could do with 26.

[01:41:05] And I will say something that I'm really proud of, not only winning the anonymous, but

[01:41:10] having that aspect of only playing a game for 24 days with 15 people, like it's not 26,

[01:41:17] but kind of feeling that every day someone goes home kind of motion that you don't get

[01:41:23] an Australian Survivor.

[01:41:24] That insanity is so, so much more stressful than I thought it would be considering I had a

[01:41:30] shower and food and water whenever I wanted and not being wet and bugs.

[01:41:36] And anyways, I found that way more draining emotionally than any day on Survivor.

[01:41:44] I had my lows.

[01:41:45] Don't get me wrong.

[01:41:46] But throughout I was like, wow, this is crazy.

[01:41:48] So I would love to do a 26 day.

[01:41:51] I keep pointing this way because the camera's opposite Survivor, but I want to be on a theme

[01:41:56] Survivor.

[01:41:57] Like, can we bring the themes back?

[01:42:00] Survivor dynasty.

[01:42:01] I know.

[01:42:02] I want to be on a theme Survivor.

[01:42:04] But either way, I would just appreciate the call to be honest with you and the opportunity.

[01:42:08] They didn't do me for, they didn't pick me for David versus Goliath.

[01:42:12] So they've been interested before.

[01:42:14] Yeah.

[01:42:15] So I'm like, guys, they're, come on now.

[01:42:17] You should be more interested now.

[01:42:19] Well, they, well, they seem like down on the internationals and other shows.

[01:42:23] Like, they're like, don't, don't spread the wealth, which I've never really understood.

[01:42:26] You would think like, this is good.

[01:42:28] Like, let's get viewers in who might know them from other spaces or if they play on other

[01:42:32] games, like maybe that'll refer them back to Survivor.

[01:42:34] But it seems like they're very possessive around what their players or potential players do and

[01:42:39] have been on.

[01:42:40] Which doesn't make sense to me.

[01:42:41] Yeah, which is my thing.

[01:42:42] I would love to be like the first player as well.

[01:42:45] That's like from elsewhere, other shows and even networks.

[01:42:48] But based on what I know, what I've heard, what I've seen, that might not happen.

[01:42:53] And even if it does, probably not for me.

[01:42:56] They would probably find somebody a little bit more massive to bring in a lot more viewers.

[01:43:00] But I'm like, please.

[01:43:02] And then shoot in Australia so I can get flown out over there because I miss it so much.

[01:43:06] But well, that would be unlikely.

[01:43:08] But yeah, I know.

[01:43:09] Yeah.

[01:43:10] I'm waiting for the call.

[01:43:11] I hope it comes one day.

[01:43:12] And if it doesn't, I wouldn't change a thing because my time on Australian Survivor

[01:43:16] was so amazing.

[01:43:17] The amount of friends, the people that I've been able to meet and chat with because of

[01:43:22] it, I wouldn't change a thing.

[01:43:24] And I would have never been on The Anonymous without it.

[01:43:27] But I would love to.

[01:43:29] And I mean, Survivor is amazing, as we all know.

[01:43:32] And we love to talk about.

[01:43:33] Yeah, I don't know why they hate cross promotion.

[01:43:35] I think that it only makes more sense from a marketing perspective.

[01:43:37] But I do think one day we just need we need a couple of Boston Rob and Amber's kids

[01:43:41] to age up and do Survivor's dynasty.

[01:43:43] That would be so epic, though.

[01:43:45] That would be like that would be so cool.

[01:43:46] I mean, I feel like Jared feels that already.

[01:43:48] We already like did that with Big Brother.

[01:43:49] I don't know how high people feel about that coming back.

[01:43:52] But there's got to be like there's a second generation, surely, of Survivor legendary kids.

[01:43:57] Right.

[01:43:58] Has to be at this point.

[01:43:59] It's been off it for 24 years.

[01:44:02] So people are always talking and crying about their kids on there.

[01:44:05] So, yeah.

[01:44:05] Let's see the people they were crying about now play.

[01:44:08] And then the loved ones visit would be ridiculous.

[01:44:10] Like it would literally just be all the parents coming out.

[01:44:14] I'd be like, don't bring her.

[01:44:15] Don't don't do it.

[01:44:16] Oh, my God.

[01:44:17] The topic of conversation would be insane.

[01:44:20] I'd be like, I've already got the target off my back, please.

[01:44:22] Or I've already got one.

[01:44:24] Yeah, I would totally do it.

[01:44:26] That'd be sick.

[01:44:27] That'd be so fun.

[01:44:27] Well, Nina, thank you so much.

[01:44:28] Tell the people where they can find you.

[01:44:30] You're been on TV one something once this year.

[01:44:33] Who knows what more?

[01:44:34] Well, I feel like it's a year weird.

[01:44:36] Anyway, it's who knows what else is coming up for you.

[01:44:39] So where can people find you?

[01:44:41] Yeah, mostly on Instagram, honestly, at Nina underscore untwined.

[01:44:46] Amazing.

[01:44:47] Well, you can find me at Shannon Gates.

[01:44:50] This has all been on YouTube, but I guess it's too late now to end the podcast.

[01:44:53] We're on YouTube every week this season.

[01:44:56] Follow me.

[01:44:57] Subscribe to the International Survivor HapUps feed.

[01:44:59] A couple of things for me.

[01:45:00] Firstly, if you didn't listen to the Wand Off, firstly, how dare you?

[01:45:03] I put in a bit of a Hamilton inspired song there.

[01:45:05] About an hour and a half in.

[01:45:07] If anyone wants to check that out.

[01:45:08] Next week for the finale, I've got the great Jack coming on from South Africa.

[01:45:12] We'll talk about if Rachel pulls it off or devastatingly doesn't.

[01:45:15] And my draft goes up in tatters.

[01:45:18] So fingers across for Rachel because her win will be shared with me.

[01:45:22] And we're going to be podcasting about Wicked, the movie, which is very fun.

[01:45:26] That's coming up.

[01:45:28] So a lot of things happening.

[01:45:29] Follow me for all of that.

[01:45:30] But Nina, thank you so much for coming on.

[01:45:32] Thank you as well to all the listeners.

[01:45:33] Thank you to our team behind the scenes.

[01:45:35] And I will see you for the finale next week.

[01:45:37] Bye.

[01:45:38] Australian Survivor.

[01:45:42] Survivor.

[01:45:42] Survivor.

[01:45:43] Wizards.

[01:45:45] 21 South Africa.

[01:45:46] 12 ordinary Australians.

[01:45:53] One million pounds.

[01:45:54] Million.

[01:45:56] Million.

[01:45:56] Million.

[01:45:57] Million.

[01:45:57] Million.

[01:45:57] Million.

[01:45:57] Million.

[01:45:57] Million.