Survivor Global: Debating Teeny’s Best Move | S47 Ep 3 with Harry Hills

[00:00:06] Survivor is saying … Survivor, Survivor, Flexives … 21 South Africa 12 Ordinary Australians, One Million Vl.

[00:00:22] Milions of Euro, I do.

[00:00:29] Survivor is saying, a lot of this.

[00:00:33] Survivor is being the same.

[00:00:45] very sad week in RHAP that one of our own Asia Welsh was voted out,

[00:00:51] made it to week three in a six person tribe,

[00:00:54] which is apparently a place where people go home,

[00:00:59] which has been a bit of a talking point this week. It's very upsetting,

[00:01:02] but I do have something to cheer us up.

[00:01:04] A great guest to talk about this episode.

[00:01:06] It's one I always love talking about survival with.

[00:01:08] It is a great Harry Hills. Harry, thank you for being here.

[00:01:11] No, thanks. Thanks for having me really like to be here.

[00:01:14] We've made it like a annual thing now. October is the time.

[00:01:17] Yeah. Not on purpose. I just like, I'm like, well, what about Harry?

[00:01:22] That's a bit of a glimpse into my thinking into the production side where I'm like,

[00:01:27] Harry, and then you're here and that's great. But you know,

[00:01:31] I say that it will cheer people up,

[00:01:32] but it probably won't because every week what I'm really doing is being like,

[00:01:36] here are the people who are not on Australia versus the world. My guest,

[00:01:39] Harry Hills. People are so upset about it, Harry, that you're here with me.

[00:01:42] Although technically I think you could kind of be here with me and do both.

[00:01:45] Maybe if you'd really hustled. So, but you're not, you're not on the season.

[00:01:50] Yeah. No, I'm not going to be on the season.

[00:01:52] It has been a whirlwind the whole preseason people talking more than they

[00:01:57] should. And it's just a funny thing.

[00:02:01] Whenever they have returning seasons, it's like, there's just like a buzz.

[00:02:06] It's like finals football.

[00:02:07] It's just a weird thing. And everyone just sort of starts getting like a bit into it.

[00:02:13] Obviously can't go into details, but it's,

[00:02:16] it's been this really interesting ride going from it getting told to players,

[00:02:21] known to players all the way up until obviously today where things are basically done.

[00:02:27] Yeah. Which is crazy to think about. And now we'll just wait.

[00:02:30] Yes. Now we have the horrifying way where we have to actually see where they decide they're

[00:02:35] going to like put it on television.

[00:02:37] Yeah. The horrifying way. I love it being described as that. That's great.

[00:02:41] Yeah. And Shani's been announced your fellow rascal.

[00:02:45] Yes.

[00:02:46] My friend, George, he's on it. They probably have beef. How are you feeling looking into it?

[00:02:52] Are you like, are you excited about it? Or is this like, yeah, I mean, Australia versus the world,

[00:02:55] it is kind of crazy that it's happening.

[00:02:57] Yeah. And I think it's, it's a who's who. And I think it's also a mixture of players that

[00:03:03] you could make assumptions about how they're going to play. But then there's also like the little

[00:03:09] personal relationships. There's things that you might not expect. There's things that do happen

[00:03:14] behind the scenes. And so it's a really weird mix in terms of they've got very like prominent

[00:03:21] relationships. They've also got things that are sort of not so prominent. And so I don't think

[00:03:27] it will be as easy to predict as people assume. I think that there will be interesting relationships

[00:03:35] that happen because you kind of just expect people to just stay in their circles. Cause I like, I mean,

[00:03:39] I'm not going to go into spoilers or anything like that, but obviously like people have past

[00:03:45] relationships, but yeah, I think, I think you can't go in with assumptions. So I'm just excited

[00:03:51] for it really. I think that there's a lot of players with potential there.

[00:03:55] Yeah. Well, I'm excited as well. And yeah, we'll just like hunker down for the horrifying wait,

[00:04:00] as you've said, and get it on television. But how have you been since last October? Was it since?

[00:04:06] Yeah. Since last October. Yeah. Good. Things are going well. I moved yesterday. So I'm here at my

[00:04:13] mom's house doing this. Very, very clean move. We've done well. I've got my coffee. I've got my

[00:04:21] protein shake, which also for some reason has caffeine in it. So that's really good. Keeping

[00:04:27] busy. Going to go bungee jumping later. No, that's just a joke from anyone who listened to last week.

[00:04:34] If not, how dare you? But no, honestly, like, I don't know what is a scarier prospect,

[00:04:40] like bungee jumping or moving. Like doing this on moving weekend is truly a gift to us. Because

[00:04:45] moving is like, I think anyone who's ever moved can say like the great, that's the horrifying thing.

[00:04:50] Moving, like the worst human experience, truly. So the fact that you moved this weekend and you're

[00:04:56] still here on the podcast. Yeah. It's unbelievable. Thank you so much.

[00:05:01] I don't get people who do it like every six months. Like some people like, oh yeah, you know,

[00:05:06] like find a new rental place, like find a new spot. Every six months. I've moved like three times in my

[00:05:11] life and I want to do it as little as possible. Yeah. I moved around a lot as a kid, but then I

[00:05:17] wasn't doing anything. You know, my parents were moving and I was just with them. It was still honestly

[00:05:22] pretty tough not to go into my whole childhood, but, um, you know, we moved a lot, but now,

[00:05:27] now that I'm an adult and I have to move myself, I try not to do it a lot because it is horrendous.

[00:05:34] So it's, it's not just the moving itself. It's also the process of just like looking at things and

[00:05:40] being like, why do I have this? Like, I don't need this, but then you don't want to get rid of it.

[00:05:46] Yeah. Oh, there's, there's, there should be like a word for like, it's not like the Marie Kondo stuff.

[00:05:51] It's like that middle group, like basically the chair stuff, you know, you have like a chair when

[00:05:54] stuff isn't clean or dirty. There should be a version of that of stuff you don't want to

[00:05:57] throw out. Yeah. But you don't want to throw it away. Like, Oh, it could be valuable.

[00:06:01] Yeah. We did get rid of stuff. We got rid of stuff before and now we kind of like,

[00:06:06] like, Oh, that actually would have been handy to have like that extra chair or

[00:06:09] stool or whatever. So now it's going to be even worse from this point on now that we've

[00:06:13] like had that experience as well. But anyway, well done, honestly. Cause that's, that take,

[00:06:19] that's, that takes a lot of guts. Like that's a tough one. So you should be proud of yourself

[00:06:23] for moving and culling some chairs. And now you're here sitting on at least one chair with me. And I

[00:06:28] really, I really do appreciate it. Yeah, no, I'm very happy to talk about Survivor. Happy to talk

[00:06:34] about US Survivor, especially one of my favorite things to do. Yes. Okay. Big episode, as I said,

[00:06:40] really big decisions. I feel like this was so complicated and everyone has a different take on

[00:06:46] it to a degree. Like how much was Asia twist screwed or how much did she have to do with it?

[00:06:51] Or how much was it on teeny or like the teeny and Keyshawn do the right thing? How are you feeling

[00:06:55] about the season in general, before we get into like the nitty gritty of all of that?

[00:07:00] Um, I like the direction they're going. I think this season in particular, like,

[00:07:05] I feel like we always talk when it's like a little bit too early in the season to kind of decide.

[00:07:10] Um, so at the moment, like I've got people I really like, there's no one who I'm like obsessed

[00:07:15] with. But as a whole, I really, really like the direction they're taking. Like, you know,

[00:07:19] we've got these longer episodes, so you can really get to know people. It's time to see a few more

[00:07:24] things where it's like just them at camp or just seeing a bit more insight into the person. So I

[00:07:29] really like that. That's the part when I'm watching, especially post playing, I feel like I really,

[00:07:34] really appreciate some of the nuance. And I feel like that is something we've actually got maybe

[00:07:40] like this season and last season is a bit more depth. Like I think, especially all the players

[00:07:44] we're probably going to talk about the most people like Rome is a perfect example where you've actually

[00:07:48] got depth to them. Like, yes, they've got their character and like Rome is abrasive and that sort

[00:07:54] of thing. But he's also like showing that he's actually a good player. And then he's also shown

[00:07:58] that he's got personality on top of that. So you've actually got layers to it. It's not just this

[00:08:02] like one dimensional. I don't like him because he did this and just that cutoff. So from that

[00:08:09] perspective, I'm really enjoying how much depth we're actually seeing of some of them, at least

[00:08:13] so far. Yeah, I do feel like a lot of what we get of Rome is in like brutal montages.

[00:08:23] I don't know. It's a funny one. And I think there is a lot to argue about. And I think that there'll

[00:08:29] be a lot of people on, you know, Twitter, Reddit, that sort of thing, arguing about it because it is

[00:08:34] nuanced. I mean, you look at him going and getting fish and then eating half of it for himself. I mean,

[00:08:40] one person will say that's fair. He did go out and get all the fish himself. So he's only taking half

[00:08:46] of it. And then another person is like, you're an idiot. It's a social game. Why wouldn't you just

[00:08:50] share your fish? It's not that big anyway. And I think maybe the true answer is like somewhere in

[00:08:56] the middle. Again, there's like depth to it, but it is also an example of you can't, even if you're

[00:09:02] doing the right things, you can still become a pariah if you're not fitting in with everything

[00:09:08] around you. And so like if other people are chilling and you're the one, you know, going and doing the

[00:09:13] pot and fishing and all that sort of thing, like it might seem like, oh, like I'm being the workhorse

[00:09:18] and this is great. But sometimes people just don't care. Like people will still want to get rid of you

[00:09:23] anyway. Yeah. I mean, I definitely fall into the camp of like, you know, earn your social capital.

[00:09:29] Like if you found the fish, like what you're not eating all the fish, but what you're gaining is

[00:09:32] social capital. That's where I would lean anyway. But even more so because it's like, he wouldn't

[00:09:37] let anyone use the fishing gear. And then it's like, but then I caught all the fish. It's like,

[00:09:40] we didn't give anyone else the chance. So I think that's like the thing with Rome. I mean,

[00:09:43] like there's, there's a lot of layers to Rome. Like I'll spoil it now. Like for someone I'm going to give

[00:09:47] three chizzy points to, there's a lot to criticize. You know, this is someone who has very little game

[00:09:52] awareness, seemingly very little self-awareness. Those are important skills in Survivor. You know,

[00:09:58] that's usually what I talk about as like the most important things. And I, and I recently wrote an

[00:10:03] article for the confessional about like how you accrue social capital to spend it. And I don't feel,

[00:10:09] I think in ways Rome has done that with his advantages, but I think largely it's through

[00:10:12] just barreling through the game. Like it's not as much about like making the relationships and then,

[00:10:17] you know, like using those relationships. It's more about like somewhat again with,

[00:10:23] with like, you know, Teenie said he'd shown loyalty, but like intimidation, you know,

[00:10:26] that's like the fear that he's striking into people's hearts. And I did say in the article

[00:10:30] that that is one way to accrue social capital, but you know, the, the, the check doesn't necessarily

[00:10:36] clear. And like everything Rome has done in terms of like individually looking for idols and like

[00:10:40] alienating himself are things that I wouldn't condone, but it has worked. And I think that

[00:10:46] he's someone I wouldn't really think has a chance to win. And I don't think so anyway, still,

[00:10:50] but I think this is his best shot to play this kind of game where he's full tilt and he barrels

[00:10:55] through the game and he does the most and he pulls people over and they're overwhelmed by it.

[00:11:01] Maybe even against their best interest, definitely against their best interest. And that's how he

[00:11:05] gets people on side. And it's very unorthodox and it's, it's like a Dreyer game or even like

[00:11:09] the way Ben Dreeberg eventually had to play. And it's just like one type of game.

[00:11:13] And I think it's his best shot. And I think that's what he's doing, but it's not something that I

[00:11:17] would go out and preach.

[00:11:19] Yeah, no. I think, I think there's, there's like a lot to criticize, but at the same time,

[00:11:25] he, it's almost like he just looks at it differently. And I think the best example

[00:11:29] is the fact that weren't they looking at his idol box and then he just like walks in

[00:11:35] and I don't remember him really getting very upset about it. Did he?

[00:11:40] Like I'm just trying to remember off the top of my head, but like, yeah.

[00:11:44] And so it's this sort of interesting thing where maybe he just looks at it differently.

[00:11:48] And I was probably guilty of this when I first played. And as the first week is you go in

[00:11:55] there and you've been a survivor fan for, you know, like decades or however long it is.

[00:11:59] He started watching last year, but I understand.

[00:12:02] Yeah.

[00:12:03] Yeah. I guess maybe on his case, he's just amped up.

[00:12:06] That's the wrong way.

[00:12:07] He's a competitor.

[00:12:09] So maybe he's amped up to just go gung-ho and he's expecting everyone else to play that

[00:12:15] way as well. And it doesn't work that way. Like everyone's going to play differently

[00:12:18] and you're supposed to be more flexible.

[00:12:20] Um, so obviously he's not picking up on that and that's a very bad thing that he's trying

[00:12:25] to go so aggressively into everything. Part of me thinks he just wants the experience as

[00:12:31] well, though. He was being a little bit of a, uh, he's being very immature, um, when they

[00:12:36] were sort of doing that, uh, pre-planning for the challenge and just sort of being very demanding

[00:12:42] be like, no, like, like I got to do this. Like I'm going to be angry at everyone if I don't

[00:12:46] get my way. Um, and like, that's, he was not wording it well. Like there's ways that you

[00:12:51] could probably get your way and not have it look that bad. Um, but I mean, he, he actually

[00:12:57] backed it, which you got to respect as well. Like, and that's where he does have depth

[00:13:01] to him. Like normally we get edits of these characters and it's like, they include that

[00:13:07] and then they just bomb. Like you'll see, it's like a Debbie or something like that.

[00:13:11] Yeah.

[00:13:11] I literally did it on the map.

[00:13:13] Yeah.

[00:13:14] Yeah. Yes. You'll have this sort of like edit where it's like, they deliberately show

[00:13:18] them being overconfident and then it's like, like massive fail, like funny music. Oh, look

[00:13:24] at him like fail on the balance beam. Um, but yeah, Rome actually backed it. So like, you

[00:13:29] got to respect some of it. Definitely. Like he's more of a strategist than a social player

[00:13:35] and I don't think it's going to carry him super far, but I mean, he's getting the full

[00:13:41] experience. He he's finding things and he's managed to strong arm people. So I can't, I

[00:13:46] can't fault him 100%. Like it's working for him. I don't think it'll work to the end

[00:13:52] either, but I think it's working for him now.

[00:13:54] Yeah. I think Rome is a very aggressive player in any context. And especially with this cast

[00:13:58] of preseason, we're very much like, I don't want to go on the journey. I don't want it

[00:14:01] to be about advantages. Like we come off 46. We know it like idols are a curse. Um, and even

[00:14:06] it was funny, like Gabe had that montage. Gabe hadn't even seen all of those people go

[00:14:09] home with an idol. Like they left half of, you know, partway through the season. He hadn't

[00:14:12] even seen, I think like Q, I think maybe just Q, but like still it was going to add to

[00:14:16] it. Um, so this cast like specifically, I think are not wanting to play Rome's game.

[00:14:22] So that alienates him even more. But then like, I think in many ways he's outpacing them and

[00:14:27] we can talk about like how he's the one who goes on the journey and he's the one who puts

[00:14:30] his hand up for everything. And then he gains the things other people don't want. He's

[00:14:33] the one hustling looking, um, in a way that other people don't want to do as much. And

[00:14:38] again, I like that type of gameplay. I want people to be cohesive and communal and, you

[00:14:43] know, social rather than advantage based in individuals he's been, but then he's so far

[00:14:47] outpacing them and that, and then using it well. So I'm definitely gonna be praising Rome.

[00:14:51] As I said, like, I think he's a clear, like three shizzy points here and I don't even see

[00:14:55] a clear two. So he has all the power, but like, before we get to him, I'd love to talk about,

[00:15:03] um, teeny Keyshawn who have like the main choice here of who they're going to go with.

[00:15:08] Um, why do you feel like they made this move? Like get in their headspace of how you feel

[00:15:14] this went for them?

[00:15:15] Look, I think it all depends on context. Like everything is context in survivor. It all

[00:15:20] depends on the exact situation that you're in. And they're sort of looking at, I mean,

[00:15:25] it's pretty much a two, two, two, like that's what we've been kind of shown. Like we've been

[00:15:29] shown that it's who it's like Sol and Aisha and then check my actual notes, like Roman

[00:15:35] Genevieve, Tini and Keyshawn. Um, and they can pretty much go either way, which means that,

[00:15:41] I mean, to me, that's the true power. The fact that they can technically go either way. Like

[00:15:45] you can, I mean, you can make arguments both ways. You couldn't make arguments that they

[00:15:50] could absolutely aggressively play that situation. Um, but I mean, I'm looking at that as well and

[00:15:57] you've got, you've got Genevieve and Rome on one side and Rome is a clear lightning rod.

[00:16:06] And then you've got a lot of danger there as well. And then you've got Aisha on the other

[00:16:11] side. They did show a little bit of what was kind of happening where Tini was trying to sort of

[00:16:18] get through it, trying to sort of see whether they would be more flexible or something like

[00:16:24] that open to like voting for one of their own to survive. Um, I mean, you can't really judge it

[00:16:30] as if they are this, you know, long-term player that fully understands how to manipulate these

[00:16:35] situations. Cause I mean, they've never been to a trial before, like none of these players have.

[00:16:39] So you really have to treat it like it is like a first tribal. So to have that sort of insight does

[00:16:45] actually show that Tini is extremely smart because most players don't fully understand

[00:16:50] all that sort of ramifications that come with every single vote, like until you've done a lot of

[00:16:56] them. Um, so the fact that she was even trying to keep her hands clean, um, was good that she was

[00:17:02] trying to sort of see if, if that would actually work to me. I mean, it all just comes down to

[00:17:08] context. They're the third tribe to actually go to vote someone out from a statistics point of view.

[00:17:15] Yeah.

[00:17:16] So if you're going to go to vote someone out from a statistics point of view, they're probably going

[00:17:17] to only go down to like four, probably just off the numbers. Um, I literally did the math. Has

[00:17:24] anyone actually done the math of like the meta as it stands right now, like 41 till now with you?

[00:17:30] In terms of what?

[00:17:31] So, all right. So basically, uh, you've had 18 tribes. We're talking 41 to 46, because we haven't

[00:17:40] finished 47, obviously. So 18 tribes. How many of those do you think

[00:17:45] have made it to merge as either a four or a five?

[00:17:49] Yeah, I think I did do this math actually, but like a while ago. Um, other than the disaster

[00:17:54] tribes, like, yeah, you're not going to more than a tribal or two. Um, how many disaster

[00:17:59] tribes have we had? So what, at 18 tribes, we've had so many disaster tribes. I don't know, I'll say

[00:18:06] 14. It feels like a lot. 14 tribes have been to more than two tribals, max.

[00:18:11] So, almost perfect. It's 13. So it's like, that includes like medivacs and stuff as well.

[00:18:19] So yeah, I think about that. Yeah.

[00:18:21] But it's still, I mean, if you're just looking at numbers,

[00:18:25] like you've got a reasonable chance. If you just make a core three or a core four,

[00:18:31] you've got really, really good chance of just making it to merge. And then if you decide that

[00:18:35] that's going to be with a lightning rod, like Rome, then all of a sudden you've at least got

[00:18:40] your foot in the door. Cause it really feels in the modern era that you need that little bit

[00:18:44] of breathing time in the mid game to just sort yourself out and try and like push other threats

[00:18:50] so that you can get through. So really, if you get there with a four, one of them is a clear person

[00:18:56] who everyone will just point at. Then all of a sudden you've like automatically made it through

[00:19:02] to like the best part of the game. So to me, I think Teenie, like she went through all the options.

[00:19:08] Because Sean, we didn't really get to see that, but obviously he's showing a lot of patience.

[00:19:12] Cause you can see his like facials where Rome starts talking and he's just like,

[00:19:16] like trying to hold it in. So he's obviously got a lot of patience in the stuff we see, but

[00:19:21] they trying to suss it out, how things would actually go. To me, I think if you're anyone

[00:19:26] in that tribe, like you've already had two people out of the likely six eliminated from the game,

[00:19:33] just take the easy option. Like if you're in a four in any kind of four, I would just take it.

[00:19:39] So if you've got the easy way with Rome being the lightning rod, I would take it personally.

[00:19:45] I'm going to contradict myself a bit because there's a lot of what you're saying that I agree with

[00:19:49] and that I've done my own math around. And this is for people like Asia and even Kyle. It's like,

[00:19:54] because Kyle's offered, you know, maybe just Tiana in front of him. I would take that if I'm on the

[00:19:58] bottom because yeah, if you just get to a four, that that could be good enough. Like I did my own

[00:20:03] math that 44% chance that your tribe is never going back to tribal council, assuming emerge at 13,

[00:20:09] which I think is a pretty good assumption. There's only two challenges left. Definitely one of

[00:20:13] these tribes will never go back to tribal council. If that's the case, there's three tribes,

[00:20:16] only two chances to go to tribal council, let alone a tribe could lose twice. So you don't know where

[00:20:21] you're going to stand in that, but the odds are pretty good that if you're on the bottom,

[00:20:24] you just need to survive. And when we talk about someone like Asia, that would be my criticism around

[00:20:28] like if you're on the bottom, which he didn't know, and that's the criticism. But if you like

[00:20:32] someone like Andy pushes John, maybe they never go back to tribal council. Maybe just getting through

[00:20:37] that is the merge, let alone the other opportunities that have opened up for Andy. So if you're on the

[00:20:41] bottom, I do think anyone but me, it's a good tagline for a reason. And then you get through

[00:20:47] just getting through one, like as an example, Mary Ann just got through that one tribal council

[00:20:52] where Mariah went and then got new life with the merge in one. So I think that can be it when you're

[00:20:57] on the bottom. I think where I'm more critical of it for Tini and Kishan is that I don't think they

[00:21:01] need to be that dire about it. Like sure, you could maybe get to a four. But I don't think they just

[00:21:07] need to get to anything. They were in power. And I feel like now they've lost that power and control.

[00:21:12] I feel like I could expect more from a pair that was in such a good spot. The other part of the

[00:21:17] criticism that I have is leaving Rome and Genevieve in with a vote steal. They could use it.

[00:21:24] They have the power. Yeah.

[00:21:25] Yeah. Like even for one more tribal council, they have the power.

[00:21:28] That is the interesting thing then. How much does Tini actually know? Like,

[00:21:32] do they know the exact rules of the Steeler vote?

[00:21:36] I think so.

[00:21:37] Was it like shown? Like, or did he just say that he's got to steal the vote?

[00:21:41] Well, there's a vote steal. Yeah, instead of vote. So like they know a vote steal.

[00:21:44] Yeah. Okay. So yeah, then you know that going down...

[00:21:47] Yeah.

[00:21:47] Yeah, going down to five people, that means that as long as Rome has one ally,

[00:21:52] he basically controls the vote at five.

[00:21:54] And he does.

[00:21:54] Yeah. So then you can split it two, two, two. He plays his idol and then it's a two,

[00:22:01] two on Genevieve. Vote Genevieve out and then Rome doesn't have any power. But then you have a

[00:22:06] crazy Rome who is specifically angry at Kishan and Tini and then you increase your chance of,

[00:22:13] if you do go back, you could be in danger. Yeah.

[00:22:18] Um, I mean, to me, like you can, you can sort of see everything tick over and I don't think it's

[00:22:25] this thing where you have to be harfed on any one decision. But to me, it got to the point where,

[00:22:31] yes, you're giving up power. Um, but you're also with someone who's been since day one,

[00:22:37] sharing all their information with you and trying to build something. And Rome, even though he's

[00:22:43] aggressive, he would still want to sort of build some sort of thing. He wouldn't want to go into

[00:22:50] merge with like no one and just be this guy with advantages and that sort of thing. Like you still

[00:22:55] need people to have power. So he wouldn't actively be trying to like destroy his tribe unless he

[00:23:02] realized he was on the bottom. Well, for me, if I was Rome or Tini and Kishan, like how I try to go

[00:23:09] forward would depend on like where I lose the next challenge. Cause if you lose the next one,

[00:23:13] and now you've lost two in a row, you could fear that you're going to lose even one more before emerge.

[00:23:19] Um, and at that point, if I'm Tini, then I'm thinking, oh, if we just vote out Sol here,

[00:23:24] now we're going to a four where he has a vote steal. If I'm Rome, I'm thinking, oh,

[00:23:29] they won't want to do that. I should get one on them in case they're trying to come for me to not

[00:23:34] do that. So I should use my vote steal at five to ensure that I have the numbers so that they

[00:23:40] can't come for me. Then it's sure, but I don't want to go down to a two, two with no vote steal.

[00:23:44] So I will vote out like a Tini or a Kishan and keep a Sol and be in like a two, one, one situation.

[00:23:49] If I'm like, if I was forward planning and being very aggressive, which Rome is,

[00:23:53] that's how I would think about it. And he has the power to do it. Like it's putting it in Rome's

[00:23:58] hands where he is somewhat erratic and he is an aggressive player. And we have the confessional,

[00:24:03] and I hope it's not like Chekhov's confessional where he has distrust of Tini while they've

[00:24:07] bridged it. You know, he, he did walk up on Tini showing Kishan the idol last week. So I hope that

[00:24:13] doesn't kind of come back to bite Tini in that. So it's putting it in Rome's hands. That's my

[00:24:18] criticism. And I feel like we can like go to what Tini actually said, which was basically that they

[00:24:23] felt overwhelmed by Rome and scared. I think they actually use the word scared and felt like they

[00:24:29] should kind of steer into the current. Um, and I, and I see it cause I think, I think it is difficult.

[00:24:34] Like when someone has so many advantages and you're like up against it, I see that, but I also think

[00:24:38] there were workarounds to take it on. And I feel like the juice was worth the squeeze from a cup

[00:24:43] for the couple of reasons of not giving Rome all that power. And also because I feel like Asia and

[00:24:47] Seoul were a better long-term working group for Tini and Kishan. So I feel like that makes it worth it to take

[00:24:53] it on. Yeah. Yeah. It's a hard one though. Cause you are asking a lot of a first time travel. Like

[00:24:59] imagine going into a first travel ever and it being this two, two, two where everything has to go

[00:25:07] exactly as you plan. The idol has to get, well, the idol will get played. So that's sort of like

[00:25:13] variable out, but like, you do need to make sure that every single one of the other five players is

[00:25:19] voting exactly how they say they're going to vote. Um, which is not the confidence level you have

[00:25:24] going into a first travel. Like I had a very, very simple first travel and it still felt like you

[00:25:31] just didn't have that level of confidence. Like you try and like show confidence because like that makes

[00:25:38] other people more reassured and then you just get the result that you want. But even in a simple vote,

[00:25:44] my first time I was like, well, I don't know like where I stand. Like, are there other things that

[00:25:48] like, I just haven't seen like a people, is there going to be like seven votes that

[00:25:52] like I just had no idea that were coming from? Um, so it is asking a lot to not go with the safe

[00:26:01] thing. I think they have given up a lot of power, but I don't think they're in the situation where Rome

[00:26:07] will abuse it. Um, it has put them at risk. So I guess it's just, it, it's more, you're looking at it

[00:26:16] not from a point of power. If like, again, it's context. If it was like a 10 person tribe,

[00:26:21] if it was like two tribes of 10, then yeah, you're going to try and like get rid of the power

[00:26:25] player. But if they're going to merge after like one more tribal, like that's likely, then I would

[00:26:32] probably just relinquish power and just sort of hope for the best. I have enormous sympathy for Tini

[00:26:40] because all my thoughts around this, I think there were workarounds where Tini can

[00:26:44] keep the power and have the better option, which is Asia and Seoul and definitely Asia

[00:26:49] as an ally. Um, but like all my plans are like convoluted and like written in like extensive

[00:26:55] notes where I'm like, well fed and I've slept and like, well, it was daylight savings today.

[00:26:59] Okay. I lost that hour, but, um, and even so like, yeah, and it's hurting my brain. So with all of that,

[00:27:05] like I do feel sympathy for Tini because I think it is all very convoluted, but I still think that

[00:27:10] there is a workaround that's worth it because I wouldn't put it in Rome's hands.

[00:27:12] It's like, I don't think Rome will abuse it, but he can. And I just don't like that. And I think that

[00:27:16] Rome is a lightning rod and a shield to a degree, but also a much worse ally for the kind of game

[00:27:22] that Tini is going to want to play being such a social player. And I'm saying Tini, but I mean

[00:27:26] the like Tishon duo because it is the two of them doing that. But like as a pair that has been so

[00:27:31] social and had all the relationships, like Rome's going to go into a merge and put people off.

[00:27:35] Whereas like having, especially Asia, I think would be someone who would make allies. Like you need a group,

[00:27:40] you don't go into a merge of a three person of the three tribe format with a majority,

[00:27:44] you need to make new allies. So I feel like Rome while being a shield is also like,

[00:27:48] you know, a bit of a kind of distractor socially and we'll put people off and that is a negative

[00:27:53] thing. So yeah, I think that that's probably a con as well. But I think for me, like at first,

[00:28:00] I thought for Tini, because at the week we take it back to 42 at the Vati tribal council where we had

[00:28:06] some similar similarities and that Daniel Strunk and Chanel were in the middle and they were between

[00:28:12] Jenny and Mike who they wanted to work with. And then High and Lydia who they wanted to work with

[00:28:15] less. And then at the point where Chanel and Mike had lost their votes, I was like, okay,

[00:28:20] even if you want to work with them more, if you want to work with Mike and Jenny more, you can't,

[00:28:25] it's now untenable. And because you're Schrodinger's swing vote, you haven't actually chosen a side,

[00:28:29] like you're on both sides to this point until you draw a line in the sand, which Tini didn't want

[00:28:33] to do, you can still make the decision. And I wanted them to make the decision that was tenable

[00:28:38] at that point, which was to go with High and Lydia. So part of me felt like, yes, if it feels

[00:28:41] untenable, go with Roman Genevieve and you were always with Roman Genevieve. No one can say otherwise,

[00:28:47] but I would prefer, and given that I think there is a workaround, I would rather have taken it

[00:28:51] on because I don't feel it was as untenable as 42. And I think my workaround, which is possibly

[00:28:56] too convoluted, seven days on the beach, first tribal council. But if the fear is we're going

[00:29:01] to split two, two, two, but he has a vote still. So that could ruin it. That could take away the

[00:29:07] two, two, two, two. You have all the information. It is scary. Yeah.

[00:29:11] What you do is the vote still has to be played before the vote. So if he plays it, then,

[00:29:17] well, if he doesn't play it, that's great. We can split all two, two, two, and you do it.

[00:29:21] I think leaving Rome, Genevieve and the vote still in together is the thing for me that I

[00:29:25] wouldn't want to do. That is too dangerous. So what I would do is, yeah, if he doesn't play it,

[00:29:30] we split. If he does play it, you've gone to Asia and you've said, this is what's happening.

[00:29:34] You've already told her about the idol. You've already left that as a loose end in case you're

[00:29:37] going to have to go with Roman Genevieve. Just extend that information to be like,

[00:29:40] he also has a vote still. So we want to work with you. What we're going to do is we're going to

[00:29:46] we're going to do the two, two, two. If he plays it, then we're on soul. Then it's too late.

[00:29:51] Then we literally have nothing. We cannot split the vote, let alone they would win at a tie,

[00:29:56] assuming he uses the vote still correctly. So. So does Asia know about the idol then?

[00:30:01] Asia knows about the idol. Yeah. Keyshawn we see tell Asia about the idol, but we don't know about

[00:30:06] soul, but we do know he doesn't know about the vote steal. If they did that, then they can say,

[00:30:12] plan is we're going to really try save soul. We're going to do two, two, two. And if he steals a vote,

[00:30:17] we're voting out soul. That will really suck. We don't want to do it, but we have no other option.

[00:30:20] We've put it off you, but we are going to come back to a tribe of five where Roman Genevieve

[00:30:25] are together, but they don't have the vote still. He will have had to use all of his ammo to do that.

[00:30:30] And then at least we come back with a sure majority, which Tini and Keyshawn don't currently have.

[00:30:34] And I think to me, that's it's convoluted. It's a lot. It's too much possibly, but to me, that's.

[00:30:39] I think it's too much to expect of starting players, but also, I don't know. I think the

[00:30:46] onus is probably on Asia and soul. Soul seems very smart. He seems very able to read people.

[00:30:52] They saw that scene where he basically just said that like run was full of it. And he just said that

[00:30:57] he was like lying to him, which was a good sort of read that, um, run was just sort of bullshitting.

[00:31:03] Um, to me, I think the onus is probably on them if, but it's, it's whether they realize that they're

[00:31:10] the ones on the bottom or not, which I don't think they should did. Yeah. So I think it came down to

[00:31:16] just half measures on Tini and Keyshawn's part. Like, I think that they wanted to play this middle

[00:31:23] and they wanted everything to work out perfectly and clean, but they really needed to be decisive.

[00:31:31] Like, and they needed to kind of get their hands dirty one way or the other. And like,

[00:31:35] technically they did, they, they made the choice that they made. Um, I think it's a 50, 50, like you

[00:31:42] can relinquish power, but play the numbers and the idea that you're probably only going to go back one

[00:31:49] more time. Um, and then you've got a very, very clear buffer, like you've got the buffer person in

[00:31:56] soul. Um, so basically it need, it would need to go back two more times before you actually

[00:32:01] are going to get. Well, assuming that Rome doesn't use the vote steal in a crazy way at five. And to

[00:32:07] me, that's just putting too much expectations on Rome. And maybe that's Tini's skill is managing a

[00:32:12] personality like Rome. And I, and I don't think that's untrue. I just think that that's not how

[00:32:17] I'd like my power to be. If I look at where they came in, they all came into this episode,

[00:32:20] like Rome's at the top of the tribe. Rome has all the options, all the power. Like I I'm crediting

[00:32:25] that. And Tini, I felt who did such good work and had alliances with every person I feel has

[00:32:31] relinquished a lot of that out of fear. And I don't like a confessional where it's like,

[00:32:34] I'm scared and I, and I'm, and I'm overwhelmed by this person. Like that is Rome winning.

[00:32:40] Like that is really gaining on Tini in a way that like, if Tini's Tini's not doing it out of agency,

[00:32:44] Tini's doing like not finding the work around here. And I, and I think it was worth taking it on

[00:32:50] Tini. But it is exponential as well. Cause it's like, let's say you just have an idol.

[00:32:56] Like that's a little bit scary in itself. I get it. Like it is, but it's not that scary because

[00:33:01] it's like everyone is 2024. Everyone sort of knows, like I can split. Everyone's got an idol.

[00:33:06] I have an idol. But then exponentially, if you have someone who's just like, well, I'm immune,

[00:33:15] like I'm just playing the idol on myself. I'm immune. And I also have other things that I

[00:33:20] can play with no immediate ramifications that I feel like to someone who's literally never been

[00:33:27] to a tribal council. If you have someone say they literally can't be voted out and they have other

[00:33:32] things, then it's like this like exponential scariness. Like it's way more than just having

[00:33:38] one or the other. It's like, they're literally invincible. And then people, when they have that,

[00:33:44] and they know they're going to play it, play with a lot more confidence. Like people that just know

[00:33:49] that, you know, I've got an idol, I'm going to play it. I'm going to be fine. Like you really have

[00:33:54] the sort of thing of like, you can just push things. I know when I played, there was a couple of times

[00:33:59] where I was like, that was like, well, I know I'm safe. So I'm just going to like really push people

[00:34:04] at tribal and just like force a narrative or an agenda or something like that. And people can sense it.

[00:34:10] When I had like, when I had an idol, you'd push people and had an advantage. There was safety,

[00:34:16] you push people. So that's also like Rome could have been doing that behind the scenes as well.

[00:34:21] He's just like, look, like, I'm immune. I've got this, like, let's, let's just do this. He's already

[00:34:26] aggressive. But I think it's like, while the plan is convoluted, also the fears are convoluted. He was

[00:34:35] going to play his idol on Genevieve maybe, or he's also, which I think Asia was correct in saying

[00:34:40] like he wouldn't do. So I think it's like, you know, an okay bet, especially where you can split,

[00:34:43] but you can't split because he'll steal the vote. Like a lot of that is like preparing for the

[00:34:48] absolute worst, like too much overthinking it to a degree, like too much fear in that when it will

[00:34:54] probably, you know, go a soda way, which is just going to play the eye on himself and keep the vote

[00:34:59] still. And the thing is that even if he plays at all, even if it goes at its worst, you are in a position

[00:35:05] if you choose for it to bounce back on soul anyway. And then he's cleared out the whole bag of tricks.

[00:35:11] And yes, it is scary to keep Rome in the game as the biggest hustler who has said he's going to come

[00:35:15] back and look even harder. I think a lot of that is how Rome will come back and the fear of, of what

[00:35:21] you'll be up against with that. Like he could play shot in the dark. He could find another idol. If you

[00:35:24] win enough challenges, he's made it to a merger or swap and he has like your name, you know, he's out for

[00:35:28] you in saying that, um, you know, I would clear it out and then just try and take him out because

[00:35:33] how are you going to play the game like that? Can't, you know, he has a hostage. Like we can't,

[00:35:37] you know, do that for Rome. Like, is that how you're going to play the whole game? Like that is such a

[00:35:41] restricted game. Like you have to take it on now. You can't play with that kind of fear with this person

[00:35:45] through the next, you know, 19 days. So I think it's like, you start as you mean to go on. And if they

[00:35:51] want to start with the mean to go on to like be completely held up by Rome, that's what they've done.

[00:35:57] You know, or you take it on and you show Rome who's boss, the person with the relationships

[00:36:02] and you take care of that. I think there is extreme fear in that. I have sympathy for Tini

[00:36:07] in that. I would be scared of it, but I think at a point you have to try and weaken it. You have to

[00:36:12] move forward with the people you'll work with better and you have to take a shot. And if the shot fails,

[00:36:17] like at least Rome used everything in his arsenal to do it. And then you go out and hustle and you go out

[00:36:21] and try to find this thing. And then, you know, try and deal with Rome from there. It is scary. It could go

[00:36:26] badly. He could find another idol and now you can't split and now you're screwed. But he also

[00:36:30] could not. And I think that playing the game with that type of fear is just, it's just an unfortunate

[00:36:33] way to start for Tini Kishon, who was so in the middle and had such great like social capital.

[00:36:39] And I just feel like now I'm not in control due to Rome overawing them with the, you know, what he

[00:36:45] amassed. It's a funny thing. It really, it really is like literally just social versus strategy,

[00:36:51] basically. Like they're, they're the ones that have a lot of social power, a lot of social currency,

[00:36:56] but couldn't use it. It's also, it's just an interesting thing with, to me, the more and more

[00:37:02] we've gone into new era, the more people play safe because all the variables that pop up sort of force

[00:37:11] people's hands to do that. And to me, like the 2-2-2 is like, if you like draw it out on paper,

[00:37:17] if you've got all the time to sort of like check it, the 2-2-2 is the exact correct play.

[00:37:23] Like you've got the most power from it. You've got the best results from it. But to me,

[00:37:30] I wouldn't admonish them for the choice that they've made. I think it's fine. I think that

[00:37:34] they'll be fine. I think they probably only go to one more tribal. Um, I don't know,

[00:37:39] but I'm, I mean, based on the numbers, like the likelihood is that they're fine.

[00:37:44] It's funny. I'm smiling because I started off having like, I started off like more where you

[00:37:49] were being like, that really sucks for teeny. Like it's, and I'd still do feel that, but I was

[00:37:53] like, that's such a hard situation. And then like, the more I thought about it, I was like,

[00:37:55] no, but there is a workaround, like, just go to Asia, explain all the information. Like you've

[00:37:59] already told her about the idol. Just tell her about the vote skill, tell her the plan and like,

[00:38:03] try for soul. And if not, he'll use it all. And then I was like more critical. Cause I was like,

[00:38:08] do that. That's the plan. But now you're like, but it's so hard. And like, I am thinking about

[00:38:12] coming back to Rome being like, Oh, I hate you. And I've just found three more idols somehow.

[00:38:18] Yeah. You just don't want to be on the wrong side of that. I think, I think it'd be okay.

[00:38:23] I think honestly, I think the way that it looks now, as long as they make it to merge,

[00:38:30] I think Tini and Kishan have like huge potential to just go really deep. I don't think they,

[00:38:35] like you've obviously brought up that like Rome is abrasive and then you are then trying to work

[00:38:40] in socially. I think that it would be quite easy for them to just separate themselves as a duo,

[00:38:46] attached to someone else that you kind of like, and just move on from there. It feels like the new

[00:38:51] era is pretty fluid to be able to do that. As long as you have a good social game, which I think they do.

[00:38:58] I mean, Kishan seems extremely patient. If you can deal with Rome on your beach,

[00:39:02] you can kind of deal with whatever comes out from, from anyone else.

[00:39:07] Well, are they dealing with it? I think that's, that's the question at the root of it that we

[00:39:10] haven't really got to the heart to, but I think this shows, I think like the, the two,

[00:39:14] or like a spectrum of, of how we look at it for them, which is like, yeah, you, I think,

[00:39:20] and I as well, like you can have sympathy for the fact that it's difficult. There were

[00:39:24] possible workarounds as well, which I would hope they would do.

[00:39:27] Um, and you know, how much you can criticize that, I think really depends. Like your mileage may vary

[00:39:33] on how much you're like, do the thing to, no, the thing is so hard. This is their first tribal council.

[00:39:37] Like, are they writing it in the sand? And I think further on, like, do the thing and you fall further

[00:39:42] on, like, Rome is a headache, like take the day off. Like now you're with Rome and just keep, keep it

[00:39:47] trucking. So yeah, I would just keep it chill personally. I think it's just, I'm going to go easy on

[00:39:53] them. Like if they were maybe returning players, then yeah, you should do it. If they've been around

[00:40:00] for way longer or it's a different context. I mean, they're looking at it. It's the first person

[00:40:03] gone. You're already a weekend. Um, just take the easy road. Yeah. Um, I definitely see that. I think

[00:40:13] that, um, you know, it was, it was aggressively anti soul, even in what they did, um, splitting

[00:40:20] on soul. And that's how we get this like three, one, one, one, because there's two splits.

[00:40:24] Um, I think that I didn't really understand hugely either split because they're splitting clearly on

[00:40:30] soul and clay. It's like Asia plays her shot in the dark, but souls on the Rome part of the split.

[00:40:35] So is what would have been negated anyway. Um, and knowing that Rome's going to play it on himself,

[00:40:39] but I guess that that one was okay, but it just shows soul so much. Like, not only are we like

[00:40:44] not with, you know, we voted out your ally and we've split on you. Like we are a four. And even

[00:40:54] putting all their eggs in the Rome and Genevieve basket, which I thought was interesting. Um,

[00:40:58] yeah. And then Asia and soul was splitting too, which I really didn't understand because that would be

[00:41:03] again, like a three, one on a shot in the dark. But if Genevieve plays and hits a shot in the dark,

[00:41:07] then Rome is immune.

[00:41:08] But that's how you do it. Like you really should, like, if you, if you're going for this core four,

[00:41:13] then you really hammer it in. We saw Tiana do that. She didn't include

[00:41:17] Kyle. Kyle then votes for Sue and then Sue just doesn't want to borrow him. Like he tries to get

[00:41:24] back in and you just can't because they're literally the only person on the beach that

[00:41:30] like has voted for you. Of course, you're not going to work with them. Um, so if you are going

[00:41:34] to do a four, which in the new era seems like it's one of the strongest things you can possibly do,

[00:41:39] then having the first vote be something where you just completely

[00:41:43] get rid of the first person and just socially get rid of the other person. Like then, then you're

[00:41:49] just in the clear, like you've got a buffer and unless you're a disaster tribe, you probably go

[00:41:55] and merge.

[00:41:55] I don't know though, because like, I feel like God, uh, they didn't do that. And I praise the fact

[00:42:00] that they like brought Andy in and didn't split, you know, on Andy and they could have gone badly,

[00:42:05] but it said they read it well and like had a possible ally. And now I feel like Andy does

[00:42:09] have like channels open that could be bad for some of them, but has opened it up with the people

[00:42:12] advantage of it. Um, and I feel like, you know, here the split on soul was so cautious, you know,

[00:42:19] like he's, he, like he's voting for Rome. Like so much would have to change from what you think it

[00:42:23] is. And like, I know things might change. He might put it all on Genevieve, but you think he's voting

[00:42:28] for the person who's immune anyway. Like so much would have to go wrong for like Asia to hit a shot in

[00:42:32] the dark and then he's voted for Genevieve and then Genevieve and they, is that even that bad

[00:42:36] for Tini and Kishan? But like maybe Roman Genevieve are really pushing that. Um, but yeah,

[00:42:41] it just felt like, okay, well, like we're really a four now. What, what did you think about

[00:42:45] soul versus Asia? Like assuming they've chosen Tini, I mean, Tini and Kishan have chosen Genevieve

[00:42:50] and Rome because it's too hard. We've talked about that at length. Then what about like this choice

[00:42:54] here that they choose Asia over soul? Yeah. That pair. Um, well, it was interesting because you saw them

[00:43:00] sort of convincing, uh, Rome to go one way, but then they went back to Asia in the end. Um, to me,

[00:43:08] if, if you're going to commit to that and you're getting your hands dirty in that way,

[00:43:12] where you just like, where are four, there are two, you really want the person left that Rome

[00:43:17] likes the least. And I think that is soul. Um, and you want the person that's...

[00:43:22] It was close. He seemed to really hate both of them.

[00:43:26] Well, I don't know. Like, cause part of him, I think he's just an e-sports guy. So he just talks trash,

[00:43:31] but he seemed to really actually not like soul to me.

[00:43:36] I think he really didn't like Asia either. I think he really didn't like either of them.

[00:43:41] It was an easy thing to convince him to soul, but then I feel like it would have been easy to

[00:43:46] convince him back to Asia. Like, yeah, I don't know. I probably just would have gone whichever

[00:43:50] we'll never know which person, or if there was a person that he liked less, but I would probably

[00:43:57] try and go and keep the one that he likes less. Cause then you just even more, you've just created

[00:44:02] that buffer for yourself. It's just a safety vote out. Um, and so I would keep soul. I think that's

[00:44:08] fine. I think if you've convinced Rome that he's a threat and he's not to be trusted and he's the next

[00:44:15] vote, that's fine. Like that's what you want. You want to create a buffer. You want to create

[00:44:21] further benefit for yourself out of the vote rather than just getting rid of someone and it's not you.

[00:44:27] If you can get any value out of it, it's that you're basically just like separating other people

[00:44:31] in the tribe. Yeah. I guess at the point where like they've chosen that pair, like they're,

[00:44:39] they're kind of, you know, cutting it with the other person, assuming like, again, this like very

[00:44:42] cautious, I think unnecessary split on soul. Um, so you're cutting the other person anyway,

[00:44:48] so they might not be as workable to you anyway. So it is more about like Rome's relationship with

[00:44:53] them, but I just felt like teeny had really invested in Asia and like to lose Asia, like

[00:44:58] let alone to lose that grouping, but to lose Asia as an option. And maybe you think like you've come

[00:45:02] to Asia with the soul vote. She doesn't seem super on board with the, she's not on board with

[00:45:07] the soul vote. So maybe you feel like that capital will be lost anyway, if you go ahead and vote out

[00:45:11] soul. Um, but yeah, I would have just thought that, you know, I guess like, yeah, if you're really all in

[00:45:17] with the four bearings as other pairs, splitting, doing everything to just be like, we don't know

[00:45:21] you don't look at us. Um, maybe that's gone anyway, but I would still think that you would

[00:45:26] want Asia. There's an option. You may never go back to tribal as we're saying, right? 44% chance.

[00:45:30] Don't you want to try and rebuild with Asia and work through with her, especially, especially for

[00:45:34] teeny. I'm not super sure about his Sean. And we did see that he wanted to work with Asia, but

[00:45:38] Asia also said that he felt less good about her and, you know, felt like he wouldn't be a priority

[00:45:44] for her as much as like teeny and soul. So maybe it's better for his Sean than teeny, but I think

[00:45:47] from the relationship we've seen with teeny, it was just like, wow, you have something like

[00:45:50] inbuilt here that seemed really kind of important. And now it's gone. Yeah. I guess it depends on the

[00:45:59] context that you play as well. Like some people want to get rid of people and then other people

[00:46:05] just want to keep certain people. Like that's how I play. Like I'll, I'll want to keep certain

[00:46:10] people and then anyone else on the board, like, just go for it. You can take your

[00:46:14] pick, you can vote out whoever you want. As long as I get to keep these people and you not voting

[00:46:18] out specifically my people, then like, go for it. There'll be a whole cast of like neutral people

[00:46:24] that if you want to pick them, pick them. I'm happy for you to have all that power in deciding. So

[00:46:30] when they go to Asia and she's really not keen on voting out soul, um, maybe that's something that

[00:46:36] they were looking for. They were looking for the flexibility to be like, okay, like I'm willing to

[00:46:41] like, listen to what you have to say to do this. I mean, again, you got to be nice to people that

[00:46:49] they haven't ever been to a travel before. Like there is a lot of like mind games and that sort of

[00:46:54] thing that could go on that you don't have experience with where people like floating names and that

[00:46:59] sort of thing. Cause I mean, it's a very simple strategy as well. If someone feels like they're on

[00:47:03] the outs. Um, and some people used to do it to me where they're just like, Oh, like, what do you think of

[00:47:11] that person and don't want you and be like, Oh yeah, this person American listeners won't know

[00:47:15] dob. Yeah. Yeah. They'll go, they'll go like, they're basically just like try and trap you in

[00:47:22] a story of like, you agreeing to vote someone out and then go and tell them. Um, so you kind of like,

[00:47:28] you do want to have some sort of concrete system of like honesty. Um, you don't just want to say like,

[00:47:37] yes. And it'd be like a different yes to every single person all the time. Um, at least not

[00:47:43] until the end game where you kind of have to, um, if you can sort of like stand your ground on some

[00:47:49] decisions and have it be transparent, then it's probably a better thing, but it depends on what

[00:47:55] people value. Like to teeny, they just might have want someone who's just a completely flexible voter.

[00:48:00] They'll just do whatever vote that they get told to stay in the game. But teeny might not have

[00:48:04] explained either. Like if you came up to me and were like, the only way you make it through this

[00:48:09] vote right now is if this exact thing happens and you vote this exact way, then I'll be like, okay,

[00:48:15] yeah, like do it. Yeah. Um, vote out whoever. Um, but until that's what it is. Yeah. Unless I got that,

[00:48:23] I probably would have just stood my ground as well. Be like, no, like, this is my person.

[00:48:27] I don't want to vote them out. Yeah. I think for Asia, I think that's my criticism and maybe it's in TD

[00:48:33] not communicating that, or it probably isn't Asia not understanding where she stood. As I said,

[00:48:39] it was like, you know, Andy turning on John. Um, if you're at the bottom, like beggars can't be

[00:48:44] choosers, right? It's like Asia said in her exit press, you know, like teeny wouldn't turn on Kishon.

[00:48:48] It's like, teeny doesn't have to, you know, teeny has the luxury of being in a better position. But

[00:48:54] if you're at the very bottom, like if it's you or me, then like you have to do that. You know,

[00:48:58] that's, and I don't think Asia knew that she was, that it was that dire. So I think like,

[00:49:02] had you known that it would have been like, Oh me or also. Yeah. Like if that's the option,

[00:49:07] I don't love it, but I like it. Yeah. The other option, which is me.

[00:49:11] But you stay in. Yeah.

[00:49:12] Cause it's like one.

[00:49:15] Yeah. Like you take the days, you take the experience, you take,

[00:49:18] like you're still in the game for a million bucks. So of course, like if you don't like something,

[00:49:23] but you actually understand you're on the bottom, I don't think Asia understood she was on the bottom.

[00:49:27] Exactly. That's my biggest criticism. How much do you, how much criticism do you put

[00:49:32] on Asia versus how much like, cause people are saying like twist screwed obviously with like,

[00:49:36] you know, the extremity of the journey being like, I mean, I think, I think it all kind of works

[00:49:40] in this episode, not that it's so connected, but like just having to put your hands in a bag and then

[00:49:44] being on a tribe of six with two advantages. And so some people were looking at it like a production

[00:49:49] kind of thing. How much do you kind of put it on Asia versus that? How much is it somewhere in

[00:49:53] the middle of that? Like, how do you look at that?

[00:49:55] No, I think, I, I think you can logically talk through all these things and you can communicate

[00:50:02] what the best choices were. And obviously there's a lot of things that we can criticize, but then

[00:50:06] when it comes to the actual people, I really don't think you can criticize harshly because it is very

[00:50:14] early. Like, and I think until you're out there and you play, you really can't understand how much

[00:50:20] just white noise there is all the time. And so like, we're seeing these critical conversations

[00:50:27] and where we're saying like, you know, like Teenie should have explained this better and she should

[00:50:30] have. And Asia should have picked up on being lower.

[00:50:34] Maybe Teenie doesn't want you to be fair. Like you also don't want to go and be like,

[00:50:37] we're choosing you otherwise, you know, I think softening that language probably felt pretty

[00:50:41] important to Teenie rather than like. Exactly. Yeah. And a lot of things, a lot of things you

[00:50:47] do think that they're bigger when you're playing, you're like, oh, this was huge. Like this tiny

[00:50:51] little thing that like to you is like the biggest thing in the world. And no one cares. Like you see

[00:50:55] that with like juries and stuff as well, where it's like the person playing and getting to the end is

[00:51:00] like, oh, this was like a huge thing in my game. And everyone's like, that wasn't big at all.

[00:51:05] Um, but yeah, the white noise is really the big thing that's really hard to articulate. Cause you

[00:51:10] got to understand, like we're seeing this little thing, we're seeing what's important. And I think

[00:51:14] the bigger thing is we just get all the unimportant stuff just ripped out. Cause they're going to have

[00:51:18] all these other conversations. Every single name would be floated. And I mean, we saw it, we saw like,

[00:51:24] we saw one of those conversations was like Rome going up to Seoul and being like, oh, like you should do

[00:51:29] this. And it's just complete. Like he knows he's lying. Seoul knows he's lying. They're still wasting

[00:51:35] five minutes talking to each other anyway. Imagine that. But then 80 of those, like you had 80 of

[00:51:44] those across like seven days. And like, that's the white noise is like, you have conversations where

[00:51:49] like, I know you're lying to me. Like, you know, you're lying, but then you have ones that are like

[00:51:53] less obvious. They're in the middle. You have one where you've got a third person at

[00:51:59] a really awkward three. Like imagine a three where it's like Rome, Teenie and Seoul. And then you have

[00:52:05] to have a conversation between you three where you're like, all right, like we're in an alliance.

[00:52:09] All three of you knowing that like, that's not the alliance. And then one of those people will go away.

[00:52:15] And then the two will be there like, no, us two are the lines. And then we've got like,

[00:52:19] if it's Roman Teenie still there, you're like, no, it's us and Genevieve. Um, and so you just get this,

[00:52:25] like, it's just filler. There's always this constant filler and white noise. And part of becoming better

[00:52:30] and better is being able to cut those conversations off quickly. Like you say them, but you cut them

[00:52:36] off quickly. You get to the important conversations and you keep sort of pushing through what actually is

[00:52:41] the consequential stuff. Um, but yeah, for, I really don't admonish them for not playing optimally

[00:52:49] right at the start. I think it's just too hard, like to really like nailing a, a two, two, two split.

[00:52:56] Like it's the correct thing, but a two, two, two split that changes if a vote steal is played.

[00:53:01] It's a live split. It's very, very involved. There's too, there's too many, too many variables.

[00:53:07] I don't, I don't think we can, I would have loved it. I would have loved it and it would have been the

[00:53:12] correct move, but I'm not going to expect it. I think that that's what it is when you, when you start

[00:53:18] in these small tribes, I mean, it's, it's hard, you know, like in bigger tribes, obviously, you know,

[00:53:24] you're getting to this final six, maybe only at the very end of the game, literally, or if you've

[00:53:28] gone to several tribal councils, if we talk about Australian survivor, um, and that constricts

[00:53:32] things, but it does make it very finicky, um, and very difficult. And I think for Asia, I wouldn't

[00:53:37] say she was too screwed. Um, but I do think this type of new era game is incredibly constricted.

[00:53:43] Like again, like not getting on with Rome, that one relationship loss is brutal and you can criticize

[00:53:48] because he's getting on with everyone. Keyshawn has relationships across the board. So that is a

[00:53:52] credit to them over and above what Asia was able to do, but it's still like, that's such a massive,

[00:53:57] massive loss because the options are so tiny. Um, so, and teeny they're both. Um, so I think that that

[00:54:06] is really difficult. I wouldn't say that it's a, it's a kind of twist screw thing, but I would say

[00:54:09] that like in teeny making, you know, decisions that I think are difficult and that I also don't agree

[00:54:15] with, but yeah, like in that really tough spot and with just so few options, I think that's kind of

[00:54:19] the main thing I attribute for Asia. And then the criticism I put is in not just like the one kind

[00:54:24] of soul interaction, but the fact that that's born from not knowing her position. Cause if she knows,

[00:54:29] like shit, it is like me or soul, like that is how much Rome has like gotten through here. Like

[00:54:35] that's how much ground he's made up. Then she plays the whole thing differently. Like, yes,

[00:54:39] that interaction would be differently because her whole mindset would be different. And then that would

[00:54:42] be a truer mindset to where she was at. Um, yeah. So I think it's tough. I think it's tough that Rome

[00:54:47] goes on the journey. She doesn't know what he has. She's not going to like play her shot in the dark.

[00:54:51] What if there's an extra vote, you know, like, and then that's like the reason, um, even if they're

[00:54:56] not like splitting on a three, one that he has a three, three with that with her playing the shot

[00:54:59] in the dark. So like all of that, I think makes decision-making really hard. I think Rome did well

[00:55:04] to be like this tidal wave of a human being, um, that in a small tribe just like devastates everything and

[00:55:11] makes it very, very tough. And I think that's kind of what I attribute to it most. I really like,

[00:55:16] I can talk about this for ages. I think it's been an hour, but it doesn't feel like that.

[00:55:18] Yeah, we've talked about it.

[00:55:20] It's so interesting and I really, um, enjoyed and I kind of want to talk about Rome, you know, more in

[00:55:25] this, but something I find really interesting is that yes, Rome goes on the journey. Rome,

[00:55:29] Karl and Annika, the three people you could say are like the next kind of targets at least. Rome

[00:55:34] Can't go home, but like targets in those tribes are the three that end up on the journey.

[00:55:37] And I tweeted saying, I like, I feel like majorities need to get this in hand. Like

[00:55:41] how is Kyle on the journey? You know? And I, and I asked the players, I asked, you know,

[00:55:47] the group chat and Zach and Oma said that, um, like they're not given instruction on like how

[00:55:52] the person is chosen to on the boat. It's like, choose or goes on the boat. They felt like if someone

[00:55:56] ran to the boat, they could go. If you wanted to lose that social capital, um, in some talk,

[00:56:02] maybe it's like, you know, the precedent I guess is in ghost Island. It was making unanimous decision.

[00:56:08] And if not draw rocks, we don't know what it is here. It's like work it out amongst yourselves.

[00:56:12] I mean, firstly, I think the first question I want to ask, cause again, I've been debating this for

[00:56:15] days with them. Um, and I also find this really enjoyable is how do you think from a, from a

[00:56:21] production standpoint, how should the boat be decided? What should be the protocol on who gets on the

[00:56:27] If I'm the producer? Yes. If you're a production. Oh, then you definitely want whoever's on the

[00:56:32] bottom to be on that boat. Um, because although saying that there was punishments there, so maybe

[00:56:39] they were expecting this was a curse, this journey, especially, I mean, they had it in 40. I hate this.

[00:56:44] Yeah. I did not like that. There was auto punishments. Wasn't it like a two of three chance

[00:56:49] that like you get screwed basically that it's yeah, it was two of three. And I mean, I think like when

[00:56:56] they did this in 44, it was unprecedented. So I really hated it. Cause I couldn't even really

[00:57:00] blame the people who went. Cause like they never had no opportunity to not reach in the bag,

[00:57:06] like to update, they weren't allowed to opt out and they'd always have the opportunity

[00:57:09] to that point to opt out. At least now there's been a tiny precedent in that it happened once

[00:57:12] in survival 44, but like, yeah, I never ever want the players to be, you have to give choice.

[00:57:17] You have to give choice and choice is the most interesting thing in survival. We just,

[00:57:21] we just talked about a few choices for an hour. Like that's the most interesting thing.

[00:57:24] And we could do it for more. Let's be here. Love it.

[00:57:28] I gotta go bungee jumping. Um, but we do choices. Choice is the most important thing.

[00:57:34] Um, it's so to take that away. I don't like, uh, to me, I think if you're a producer, you want

[00:57:40] the person who's on the bottom to go on the boat and you want, uh, the thing to be something that

[00:57:47] has a lot of choice and a lot of weight to it. Um, so you can balance it any way you want,

[00:57:51] as long as people get the choice or as long as they, I mean, you could just make it where

[00:57:56] they compete with each other. And then you really get people in hot water because people come back

[00:58:01] net neutral and usually net neutral is where people have the most trouble explaining things

[00:58:07] and getting away with it. Um, if I'm a producer, yeah, you would probably,

[00:58:13] I don't think you can make it so that the person on the bottom is getting on the boat, but you would

[00:58:19] want them to, and then you would want it to be a game where they all verse each other and only one

[00:58:25] person wins. Well, they do. I really, because usually it's like at, after a challenge where

[00:58:31] the other tribe will choose. And if they have any sense of the dynamics, they're choosing like the

[00:58:34] Andy, you know, they're choosing the people that seemingly aren't fitting in. So that does behoove

[00:58:38] the person on the bottom. If the other tribes can pick up a sense of the dynamics, which, you know,

[00:58:43] maybe that's on the tribes not to show that, but yeah. And also that person on the bottom

[00:58:47] can like make eyes at you. So usually the person on the bottom does, I think have a bigger chance

[00:58:52] being like the Banu who will go to the, the island. Hmm. Well, they'll, they'll push harder for sure.

[00:58:58] Um, yeah, if I'm on the top and I'm a player though, I'm just literally trying to rig it so that one of

[00:59:03] my friends is the one who ends up on the boat. Um, which, which would be pretty doable. Like you could,

[00:59:12] like, you could just do the like long straw or something like that. And then you just hand

[00:59:17] the sticks. They've done that. Yeah. Yeah. You just read the sticks and then hand it to

[00:59:20] like whoever's like your best friend. You just give it one first, make it be the one that is the

[00:59:27] longest stick or shorter stick or have, I don't know. I've never done that. I don't think I've ever

[00:59:30] done the stick before. I've never actually picked a stick for anything. Never actually done it.

[00:59:35] Um, but yeah, you would just try and rig it. Um, but yeah, a better walk would be them versing

[00:59:42] each other. I thought the one where was it TK versus Asia? I thought that one was perfect.

[00:59:48] Oh yeah. Yeah. That journey. Yeah. Like where they go and then they have a competition. The

[00:59:53] competition is, I mean, quote unquote fair. Like it feels fun. I felt like every single thing about

[01:00:03] that challenge was good. I would love to see more things like that, where they go for like treasure

[01:00:08] hunts or they have something that's like fun and competitive. I mean, that game is good as well, where

[01:00:13] um, you actually get to see the island. They show off all the nature side of it without it

[01:00:18] being this forced thing either. Yeah. This was the worst of the journey. I think, I think people

[01:00:24] agree like no, and is it fun? Like Mike White has, by the way, I'm midway through my white Lotus.

[01:00:29] So I'm very much on my white, like, you know, is it fun? Um, but yeah, no, like them just reaching

[01:00:34] into a bag. Like it's not without, you know, decision-making. Yeah. And pull out a punishment.

[01:00:38] That's that is actually, yeah, quite bad television. It's not, it's not great to just have like a quick

[01:00:44] reveal of you have now been punished for coming on this walk. Yeah. Well, I think in terms of the boat,

[01:00:50] firstly, for me, this was controversial because I did argue about it with the second over for two days,

[01:00:54] but I, um, I think I wanted to be like, work it out amongst yourselves. Like if you want to pick

[01:01:00] sticks, you pick sticks. And I think people do tend towards diplomacy because it is a social game.

[01:01:05] You know, you don't want to put people off, like you're very much on the bottom and you are not

[01:01:09] going and then you make it to emerge and they flip on you. So in that social game, I think people are

[01:01:14] diplomatic. I would, I would say like, I think the ghost Island precedent that again is not certified.

[01:01:20] They do not tell the players what's going on, but I think people assume if you can't work it out,

[01:01:24] you are forced to pick rocks. I don't like being forced to pick rocks because I feel like that's

[01:01:28] an agent. Like, I feel like that's random and that's, you know, taking away from the players.

[01:01:32] Yes. I wouldn't let them do that at all.

[01:01:35] Because that's like, they, well, they don't have an even chance. They have a, you know,

[01:01:38] lesser chance by being not in the majority, but they have a chance compared to what I think it

[01:01:43] should be, which is if you can't work it out between you, like it's majority rules, it's a vote.

[01:01:49] Um, because then I think that would be interesting because then I think a majority would have to be

[01:01:52] like, Kyle, you're not going, you know, we just left you out of the vote. Don't you know what's

[01:01:57] going on? And like majority rules, you're not going like, let's put off calm more. Do you want

[01:02:00] to do that? Do they want to make an interesting decision like that? I think it's interesting.

[01:02:03] I think it's extreme. I think it would be rarely done, but I think it's a good fallback. I think most

[01:02:08] of the time people will say, okay, let's be diplomatic. Let's pick the rocks. But I think that to me,

[01:02:12] because again, production, what we don't know, the players don't know what happens if they say we cannot

[01:02:18] work this out. I don't want to pick rocks. You're not going Kyle. No, we are picking rocks in that

[01:02:23] situation. They don't know. We don't know. So I think it should be a vote if they cannot work it

[01:02:26] out, if they want to take it to that extreme. What about you make the journey a challenge

[01:02:34] and you have it be something that's a bit more interesting and different, but anyone that wants to get

[01:02:41] on the boat can get on the boat. If you like, and it can just be opt in or opt out. Like, do you

[01:02:49] want to say there's the option of, and you could maybe do this earlier, like before any idols have

[01:02:58] been released or anything like that. And you release an idol at the same time. You could all, you could

[01:03:03] even do the journey B something that's like a red herring. And the actual thing is back at camp,

[01:03:08] like that cage thing that they did on one of the teams. Well, the actual thing is back at camp. Like

[01:03:12] the idol is at camp. The journey was, as we said, mostly bad, you know? Yeah. You look like the

[01:03:18] people on the bottom, like there's a lot of space not going on the journey or not being the one to be

[01:03:24] picked. Like again, you might still be picked. You still, they still have extreme diplomacy, which the

[01:03:27] majority has been employing within these very vague non-existent rules. But like even without that,

[01:03:32] like again, you'll be chosen by the other tribe. If it's at that point, you have the idol at the camp.

[01:03:36] The journeys are risky at best, terrible at worst, you know? Like, um, yeah.

[01:03:43] We saw as well, like Asia and TK, they're the ones who left.

[01:03:47] Yeah, they did it well. It's a normal way to Asia and TK, did it?

[01:03:50] And I guess obviously other dynamics as well, but you're not doing yourself any favors by

[01:03:54] spending a whole afternoon completely missing from your camp very early in the game.

[01:04:00] So it almost could be a good thing to just opt in or opt out of the boat, because then it's like,

[01:04:04] maybe you get an alliance that goes on the boat. Maybe you get people that specifically want to

[01:04:09] stay behind solidify like an idle hunt or anything like that. Um, it could make for more interesting

[01:04:16] choices to just have a complete opt in or opt out, especially if you made it a challenge where it's

[01:04:22] like one person gets it. And then you get all these, all these little variables where like,

[01:04:28] will someone go on the boat to watch someone else who's on the bottom and then watch what

[01:04:33] they're actually saying to the other players. You can get really weird cross interactions. Um,

[01:04:39] to me, I would be interested in maybe seeing that maybe, maybe when they do like since 50 or something

[01:04:44] like that, just have complete opt in or opt out.

[01:04:47] We're all at the island. Everyone's on the boat.

[01:04:50] We're not using social capital because we're all here, but this, this cast actually wouldn't.

[01:04:54] And I think that's what we're seeing. Like for me, I think like production, yes,

[01:04:56] production want the target to go on the island for sure. And that's why you would think that

[01:05:02] it's not like a vote, like definitely not like starting with a vote or even getting to a possible

[01:05:07] vote. Um, because that's what they want. I mean, I don't, I don't ever want it to feel like

[01:05:11] production are manufacturing something like, Oh, let's do this because then maybe the minority will get

[01:05:15] the thing. I hate that kind of manufactured force part of it. I want it to be agent in the player's

[01:05:21] hands at the make a decision. Like if they want to pick sticks and let maybe someone like Carl or Rome

[01:05:25] go on, like, let that be their decision, which I think it has been to this point. I don't think

[01:05:30] we've seen it play out. I don't know, but I don't think we've seen a discussion that's like,

[01:05:34] I won't pick sticks. Like I'm not letting you go. Like, I'd love to see how, how that is, um,

[01:05:39] handled, but yeah, I think production want the minority member to go, but now we're saying maybe it's

[01:05:42] better not to go. But then I think I go back again because I'm all the way around three 60.

[01:05:48] Well, like, yes, but if you're in the minority, you want to go like, if you're Rome, this was

[01:05:51] perfect. Rome can't go next. He has an idol. He is the target. He can't afford to lose his vote.

[01:05:57] And so like, he should definitely do that. If you're Kyle, Kyle says that he wouldn't have reached in

[01:06:01] the back. Kyle should keep reaching in the back. You know, Kyle's in the bottom. Kyle's been left out of

[01:06:06] the vote. Like he of course should go. He can lose like the time. Like he needs an advantage.

[01:06:11] So I think the people on the bottom often need that thing. I think production would push for that to be

[01:06:16] more of an option. I don't think I'd push for anything as a production person because I like that

[01:06:21] sense of agency and fairness, but I see why they want it. And I see why someone on the bottom would

[01:06:25] want it. And we get like all three next targets going on the board. And I just think that that's

[01:06:30] like a crazy thing for them to have happened for these like majorities or these power players.

[01:06:35] But then you'd think you would think if they were actually like trying to push certain agendas that

[01:06:42] all of a sudden the walk would have a lot more advantages in it than just like auto.

[01:06:50] The minority member like giving you the chance to go on the journey, minority member, you're welcome

[01:06:57] to be screwed over. It was kind of like, let me invite you to my lair.

[01:07:03] Yeah, it's not. I mean, look, even if they pick sticks, like technically the majority should have

[01:07:08] a better chance of going. They have the numbers. They have a better chance.

[01:07:11] So maybe they're trying to screw over the majority.

[01:07:14] Yeah, maybe that's them. Maybe they're thinking like maybe they do have a locked in, but they're like,

[01:07:19] hey, if the majority goes and we think that they will, then they get screwed over.

[01:07:23] Yeah. But I just, I just, I just, for the majority if they go.

[01:07:27] Yeah, I just want a choice.

[01:07:30] Yeah. All I want is choice. I just want more choice. Every single thing should be a choice.

[01:07:34] And the more variables you can get out of it, the better just make it, especially because people

[01:07:39] will make assumptions. People will change their game plan off nothing. Like if you come back as a

[01:07:45] neutral, like you have one person screwed, one person forced to have a neutral result,

[01:07:51] one person with an advantage, the neutral person will come back. It still affects the game.

[01:07:55] So everyone assumes things. So no matter what, just having choices makes things better and better.

[01:08:01] Yeah, I agree. That's like my Mike White fun thing. Like, is it a choice?

[01:08:06] And I think it's yeah, I think it's really interesting. I will say that, yeah, letting

[01:08:11] Rome, Kyle and Annika go is so interesting to me. I think I'm really critical of it

[01:08:16] with Rome. I think like maybe that's the thing as well. Like I know we can't criticize too much,

[01:08:20] but like with Tini and Kishon who are, they have all the power, you know? And I think what it

[01:08:27] speaks to is like Tini and Kishon are definitely Tini, I think even said preseason would not want

[01:08:32] to go on the journey. And I get it. I wouldn't want to go on the journey. Have you seen the journey?

[01:08:34] It sucked a lot, but like, I think you want to have the, usually the option, the information,

[01:08:41] like the control of that situation. And yes, if Tini had gone and lost their vote, that would have

[01:08:45] really sucked too. So you can't be results oriented about it. But I do think even if not for the power,

[01:08:50] for the information, someone's got to protect like Kishon or Tini have to be sowing the seeds

[01:08:56] with all of their allies with Rome or whatever to be like, I really want to go next time. I really

[01:09:01] want to go. And then everyone will opt into that because they're all aligned with these people.

[01:09:04] Like how do you, does it get to the point where you're all playing scissors, paper rock,

[01:09:06] and then you've all lost scissors, paper rock. So firstly on this,

[01:09:10] I'm like, how does Rome of all people go? And now you're just going to get better at

[01:09:15] rock over scissors. Well, definitely. You're just going to be better at it.

[01:09:19] No, you can't practice rock, paper, scissors. It's best of one. Best of three. You can try

[01:09:22] read that and see how it goes. Yeah. There's psychology things, aren't there?

[01:09:26] But not for best of one. There are psychology things. That's just luck.

[01:09:29] Oh no, there probably is psychology around what people do first. So definitely look into that

[01:09:33] before you go on the show. Isn't it like, isn't it like when people lose, they, they're like,

[01:09:38] extremely likely to change on the next one. But there probably is as well around what people

[01:09:44] do first and then countering it. Yeah. But look into that. Just go rock every time. Just

[01:09:50] just go rock every single time. Nothing beats that. Are you as harsh as I am that they let

[01:09:56] every person on the bottom go to the journey or are you like, I don't want the journey. So fair.

[01:10:03] Kyle, I don't understand because he is very clearly the bottom. The others, I mean, for

[01:10:11] Rome, for Rome, I don't really see it being too bad if you're one of the people that's

[01:10:17] with him and they were kind of just basing it on a system where they thought it was fair.

[01:10:21] So maybe they just, but they weren't, they just got to the point.

[01:10:25] Like that, they were rock, paper, scissors though. So it was like, yeah, but it's like,

[01:10:29] I feel like they were with him because he came back with something and that was so scary that

[01:10:33] like even Tini said, Tini was like, now he's got this, like, you know, like, I think because

[01:10:37] that happened, they were with him. I think had he not gone, but maybe if they'd lost a vote,

[01:10:42] they would have anyway have had to kind of steer into that without being able to split. It would

[01:10:48] have been, he has something I have less now I need him. But then it became, he has everything.

[01:10:54] That's also scary. But I still think like allowing that to happen when he's already like teetering

[01:10:58] on the edge of too powerful and it's about to overwhelm the whole tribe. Like surely you get

[01:11:03] to a point where Rome isn't going on the boat. What? It's just so unfortunate.

[01:11:10] Is Annika really on the bottom though? Because it's like, aren't they, aren't they hiding that from

[01:11:15] her? And like to try. And I will also say with Rome, it also, Rome went to give the information.

[01:11:21] They all did. Carl as well, you know, like could go and give, he didn't seem to, but I think like

[01:11:24] also from an information standpoint, that's like, yeah, for Annika, I think that it's different

[01:11:28] because I'm not critical of Annika going because you can't ever make it seem like she's not with you.

[01:11:34] Like if anything, you are technically with her. Um, and for someone like Sam, like, you know,

[01:11:39] if she comes back and she has something, you have an idol, you could also just stay with the four

[01:11:45] that can kind of choose how you're going with it. It doesn't need to be nearly as aggressive

[01:11:48] with Annika. And if it is aggressive, if anything, it will make a definitive line.

[01:11:52] It doesn't need to be there. That will make your situation harder. So I'm not like, oh,

[01:11:57] like Kyle. Yeah. Rome had a lot. Kyle was on the bottom, had just been left out of the boat.

[01:12:03] Like those are the two. Yeah. Kyle is the one. Yeah. Kyle, you wouldn't let him go. Kyle,

[01:12:08] you would just try and make it any sort of like majority rules game where you've got like

[01:12:13] the odds way stacked against him. Um, even if you're like making it look like it's fair,

[01:12:18] like you do the sticks and don't completely rig it. Um, you would still try and make it like a majority

[01:12:25] rules game. So he's basically got this like tiny chance of actually going and he's not the sort of

[01:12:29] guy who is no Kyle. Like why does it, why would it be so diplomatic? You just left him out of the

[01:12:34] vote. Like I believe me, I believe me. I advocate for diplomacy and a social game. And I've spent the

[01:12:40] first two weeks of the season doing it, but you just have to mouth the vote. Isn't it like,

[01:12:43] Kyle, are you kidding? No, not you. I don't think you can. I don't think anyone wants to be the

[01:12:51] person that is like really harsh because ultimately people can end up on the jury very easily. Like

[01:12:57] again, this, it just comes down to the context of the new era. It is relatively like I'm using easy

[01:13:05] for lack of a better word, but it is quite easy to get onto the merge. Um, in terms of just sheer

[01:13:12] numbers that make it onto there, it's only a third that sort of gets removed. So you really don't want

[01:13:17] to actually be hyper aggressive or, I mean, just not, not in a genuinely mean way. So even Kyle,

[01:13:27] I mean, it kind of is like, we saw that there was like a flash forward, I think to next week,

[01:13:35] um, and it's just like Rome, obviously watching soul who is trying to probably look for idols.

[01:13:43] That's what's like implied. And so that sort of thing is one of those things in survival where

[01:13:48] it's like, yes, it's fair. Like they're allowed to just follow you. And like, you could be seen to

[01:13:54] do that cheerfully, or it could actually be extremely jarring and malicious and just really

[01:14:05] not nice. Like things like that, where you really take someone who's on the bottom and you just take

[01:14:10] away their agency in that kind of way. It can be very mean. Um, and some, some people will take it that

[01:14:18] way as well. And so for Kyle, if you've got someone and it's like, maybe they don't go back

[01:14:24] to a travel and then he ends up on the jury, you've got someone who's like, hates you.

[01:14:29] Immediately flipping on you and never voting for you. But this is why I think it can tend towards

[01:14:32] majority rules. This is, this is my point. This was what I was arguing with Omar and Zach is that,

[01:14:37] that's why I think that if you can't work it out, it can tend towards, if you really are putting a

[01:14:43] foot in the sand to be like, no majority rules. And that's like the final line of like defense

[01:14:48] of, of how this was worked out. Like, I think that people will rarely do it for the reason of

[01:14:54] it's very rude and like, so I think that like, it's quite interesting because it will rarely happen.

[01:15:01] And like, yeah, and if it does happen, we'll talk about it because it'll be an interesting social choice.

[01:15:05] Yeah. Well then, I mean, if you really want to do it that way and you're smart and quick enough,

[01:15:09] then you just go, all right, like everyone let's vote for someone. You can't vote for yourself.

[01:15:15] Vote for someone you think should go on the journey. And then obviously, obviously if you've got four

[01:15:20] to one, everyone's just gonna vote for someone in the majority instead of Kyle and Kyle can't vote

[01:15:25] for himself. But even that is an interesting choice because even that is then that person now becomes

[01:15:32] a big threat. You know, then like when you get to emerge, it's like they all voted for this person,

[01:15:36] you know, like that, if this person's running, that's the same, you know, that then you can do

[01:15:40] some great things with that. Because if you like, I don't know, if you like get onto that quick enough

[01:15:46] and you're the one who starts the narrative, then you can be the first person that votes as well.

[01:15:50] And then you're like, I vote for this person. And then you don't see this so much in survivor

[01:15:54] because it's not voting in front of each other. But what can happen a lot in the challenge is one

[01:16:00] person will vote for one person. And because it's in front of everyone, that person's already voted for.

[01:16:06] Gang's on. Like, and it could be the same for a positive way as well. Like if, if you're just like,

[01:16:11] oh, okay, like Sue, I want Sue to go, then the next person could just be like, okay, like I'll vote Sue as well.

[01:16:17] And you can just get that in a positive way. But basically, if you made it so you can't vote for yourself,

[01:16:22] Kyle can't even force a stalemate with a vote.

[01:16:25] Yes. I also think that why that's interesting is because there are drawbacks to even voting positively

[01:16:31] for someone. There's definitely drawbacks to voting negatively for someone. Not that this, you know,

[01:16:35] voting like against what they want. So that's why a lot of the time people will be very, all the time,

[01:16:40] mostly, I think almost every time people will be very diplomatic. They'll draw sticks, they'll do

[01:16:45] scissors, paper rock. And that then negates the drawbacks of, well, Tini's running the tribe.

[01:16:50] Look how everyone wants Tini to go. But then you have Rome going, then you have Kyle going. So it's like

[01:16:55] leaving it to that chance, which I think most, this is why I think that we haven't got to the point where

[01:16:59] it's like, no, I refuse. And then how are we kind of breaking this tie that, you know, or this stalemate

[01:17:05] that production hasn't necessarily accounted for? We don't need to because most of the time people

[01:17:09] will be very diplomatic so that they don't put people off so that they don't put themselves out

[01:17:14] in front. And now they're playing scissors, paper rock. And now Rome is on the boat. And I find that

[01:17:19] really, really interesting because I think that, yeah, in this instance, truly every next target was there

[01:17:24] on the boat. And maybe I'm being too harsh to be like, how did you let that happen? But I do think,

[01:17:28] especially for like Tini and Kishon, you can just start it early, like days before,

[01:17:32] like I really, really want to go on the boat, you know, and you're aligned with everyone.

[01:17:36] So no one's going to feel bad about this. You arrive on the beach immediately and I say,

[01:17:42] oh man, I really had, I really had fun on that boat ride we just took.

[01:17:46] I love the boat. I would really, I would really love to get back on that boat.

[01:17:50] It's not even about the journey. I'm just bored here.

[01:17:53] And like, even, but even that has things like, oh, so you really want the advantage,

[01:17:56] you know? And I think people don't want to go on the journey. It's so interesting because there

[01:17:59] are so many drawbacks, but yeah, so that people are just like, not me, actually, you guys all choose.

[01:18:05] And now, or we leave it to chance or let's not put any kind of social stock or tell or read

[01:18:11] into how this is decided. And now like the person on the bottom is there. I just find it interesting.

[01:18:16] Now we've spoken about this for 20 minutes, but I can't do it all day, Harry. I find this so

[01:18:21] interesting and enjoyable. It's like, it's so hard. This is, it's so difficult. I do. I have

[01:18:26] sympathy for the players. It's really tough. I come in like, how could you let that happen?

[01:18:31] And then I spent 20 minutes being like, that's how, that's really hard. There's no real answer to that.

[01:18:35] That's tough.

[01:18:36] No, I think just in the moment, like it's, it's still fine. I think, especially looking at people that have

[01:18:44] won in the new era, like you kind of want power, but you don't want to push too hard for it because

[01:18:51] as soon as people push too hard for it, like those seem to be the people that really get knocked out is

[01:18:56] like people that are at the forefront too early. Like even when they're not that good, like they're not

[01:19:02] even that powerful. They just like have the perception of being powerful and up there. So

[01:19:10] yeah, I don't think that you can really criticize too much. I think it's fine. Kyle is silly, but

[01:19:17] everyone else is fine. Yeah. I feel like I'm trying to criticize, but then I'm like,

[01:19:22] damn. But I still think there has to be a way so that it's not Rome going. There has to be a way

[01:19:26] that the person who clearly has an idol isn't going to amass more power. Maybe you're sending them to

[01:19:30] their doom on a journey no one wants, but I still think just from an information standpoint,

[01:19:34] just with the fact that he can go and bitch about Asian soul, which he does, like,

[01:19:37] it's just a good situation. Like there has to be, there is, there's a way to be like,

[01:19:43] yeah. What about Kishon? We all like Kishon. Great. You know, like, yeah, I think, I think the

[01:19:49] vote is the way like that you can start to manipulate things. You can just say like, let's do it down to

[01:19:54] a vote and vote for someone else. And then you really can just sort of like manipulate the situation.

[01:20:00] Yeah. Um, I, I think, yeah, I still think it shows a hand, but I think that that

[01:20:06] is better than this in this, as you said, it's all in context. And I think that in this context,

[01:20:10] I think that makes more sense in terms of like, just, you know, more on the journey for what,

[01:20:14] like Kyle, Kyle comes back and tells them that he has, um, lost his vote. I'd love to talk about

[01:20:20] Kyle and Gabe and kind of Chuku in this and the journey. So what did you think about what Kyle

[01:20:24] was doing in this episode, which included, you know, telling that he'd lost his vote and he's obviously

[01:20:29] trying to, you know, Gabe approaches him and then he kind of goes back to them and throws Gabe under the

[01:20:34] bus. Like, how do you feel about how Kyle's trying to recover from the TK blind side?

[01:20:38] I mean, you really don't have a lot to go off. Like if you're Kyle, it just sucks. And I actually

[01:20:44] really like him. I think he seems like a really old school player and a social player, but he just

[01:20:50] really attached himself to the wrong side of the tribe. Um, I don't know whether that was just like

[01:20:55] the boys club where that was the thing where like they, he seemed to really vibe with TK seemed to

[01:21:02] vibe with Gabe, but then it just was like the complete wrong way to go about it to just like

[01:21:07] not really push with the other people. Um, and look, it's pretty bad. Like he lost his vote.

[01:21:16] Like you really don't have a lot to go off there. And so really, what do you have then to throw someone

[01:21:24] under the bus? And it's what we were talking about before you go and like, you really like look at

[01:21:29] someone who agrees to vote someone out and then you just immediately take it to someone else.

[01:21:35] And when there is that much like filler conversations, you can kind of do that with almost anyone, but he

[01:21:40] was going to try it. But really, if you have no vote, then that immediately makes it like less

[01:21:46] appealing. Like I, I wouldn't want to support someone who has no vote. Like they're not going to be able

[01:21:53] to help you with the plan. Like you're really going with their plan, even though they have no agency in it.

[01:21:58] And then Sue and Caroline are obviously not going to do it because they're absolutely tight. And he

[01:22:05] voted for Sue. So you're really going to struggle to actually get any numbers without a vote. What

[01:22:10] are they? They've got five people, four people are voting and two of them don't like you.

[01:22:16] So yeah, like you're pretty screwed.

[01:22:20] Well, yeah, I mean, I'm, I feel like you're like, it's too hard to criticize, but I'm going to criticize

[01:22:24] like pretty much everyone we saw anything from on two coup this week. I mean, for Carl, I think like

[01:22:31] he didn't want to even want to put his hand in the back. He says he wouldn't have done it,

[01:22:34] but he was forced to. If I was Carl, I go on the journey. I put my hand in the bag as many times

[01:22:37] as I want. Like I need an advantage.

[01:22:39] You have to.

[01:22:39] So like, yeah, that's security.

[01:22:41] You have to.

[01:22:42] Yeah. But he wouldn't have had, and he actually didn't. He didn't do it for the next one.

[01:22:45] He should have put his hand in the bag.

[01:22:47] He should have. Yeah. Once, once you lose, like, what are you going to do?

[01:22:50] Like go back to camp and try and convince people to go to rocks for you. Like there's no chance.

[01:22:56] So it's like, you might as well just keep drawing.

[01:22:58] Yeah. Like his vote, especially for the next one. I mean, he's already lost that one. So maybe he's

[01:23:02] thinking through to like, you know, emerge or, or beyond this vote, but like, he doesn't have

[01:23:07] the luxury of doing that. Like for this vote, his vote does not matter. Like he either,

[01:23:12] they're either voting Tiana out, which is like what Gabe comes to him with or not.

[01:23:16] And in which case the power three will make that decision with or without your vote.

[01:23:20] Or maybe what he's trying to do is like pull over, you know, with him and Tiana, Caroline

[01:23:25] and Sue, in which case the three of them can make that decision again without him. So I think that

[01:23:30] like not having a vote didn't matter. I even think telling them that he didn't have a vote

[01:23:34] for like the kind of Carla just saying like old school, good old boy mentality actually kind

[01:23:38] of worked for the player he was trying to be and was fine. I just think he should have been harder

[01:23:42] about like wanting the advantage. And I think he should have put his hand in the bag.

[01:23:47] He needs to just push the idea that he's like, um, just useless basically. Like he's not a threat.

[01:23:55] Like you just like, that's the only angle you really have left. Like you can't make people go

[01:24:00] to rocks for you. You don't have a vote. So you can't push any kind of flip, um, which you would

[01:24:06] have if you had a vote because you'd only need two people. Um, so no rocks, no vote. You can't flip.

[01:24:13] You need an advantage or you need to basically say I'm absolutely no threat. Even as early as we are,

[01:24:20] you could probably just pull me another like five votes and I might not even have any agency then.

[01:24:27] Like there's just like no threat whatsoever. Yeah. I don't think his vote matters. I think with Carl,

[01:24:31] it's like either they want to keep him because he's like a stable, helpful provider and challenge

[01:24:37] asset who they like, as Gabe said, he feels like is malleable or not. You know, it's not really about

[01:24:42] like as much as what he like, and that's from either side, you know, if they want to, if eventually

[01:24:46] Gabe feels too erratic and they want to keep him over Gabe, or if they feel like he's more useful than

[01:24:50] Tiana, like they'll make that decision with or without him. And I think it's more just like how he's

[01:24:54] appealing to them socially. But yeah, I thought going back to Sue and Caroline was wrong. Um,

[01:24:59] I feel like, like, as I've said, like, if you just have Tiana in front of you, like you probably will

[01:25:04] make the merge. Like you might again, never even go back to tribal council. And if you do just that

[01:25:08] one is how you probably made the merge and then you have new life and you'll probably find new friends

[01:25:13] in this game. So I thought, I thought that was wrong. And that's my criticism of Kyle. Um,

[01:25:17] my criticism of Gabe, this is just then, and then like, yeah, so my criticism of Gabe is that he

[01:25:22] even came to Kyle with that in that way. I feel like he misread Kyle by being like,

[01:25:25] he'd be really loyal to me because he's really loyal, misreading that loyalty to Tiana,

[01:25:30] which Kyle, who Kyle is overly loyal to, despite the fact that she just left him out of a vote.

[01:25:33] Again, you can criticize that while still criticizing Gabe for not reading that kind of wrong loyalty.

[01:25:39] I don't get why Gabe even wants that. Well, why does, why does Gabe want everyone? You don't need

[01:25:46] to everyone. Like you can be nice to everyone. Like that's the other thing as well. Like you don't

[01:25:54] have to say a name. If they ever ask you, if you think you've got a name, you say, oh,

[01:25:58] I haven't really decided yet. Just don't give them any name at all. Like be like, we're not going to

[01:26:04] tribal and I want to keep things positive. So let's not talk names. Let's not talk about kicking

[01:26:10] people out because that's the wrong attitude to have. And you can really just frame it like that.

[01:26:14] Like we want a positive attitude. We want everyone here. Let's not talk names. And there's no way that

[01:26:20] they can like hate on you for that. And you've also not given them any ammunition to actually go

[01:26:25] and like tell anyone. So like to Gabe, that's the thing I'd criticize Gabe. You've got the power

[01:26:31] position. Just keep everyone where they are. Like you keep everyone on the same strategic level,

[01:26:39] but then you just be nice to everyone. You've got that thing. Like you've got the power. So now's

[01:26:44] the time where like, let's just say, just in case you actually do make it to merge,

[01:26:48] you've been nice to them for like a week. Like you haven't threatened them with anything.

[01:26:52] You haven't followed them. You you've let them go on the journey. Like, like to you,

[01:26:58] they're just like a friend that's there. And that's what we ended up doing. We had this weird

[01:27:03] thing in champions versus contenders where it was like, we didn't go to tribal. Like we went to travel

[01:27:09] like once. And then we had this like whole cold war where like they were maybe going to get rid of me.

[01:27:15] And they were maybe going to get rid of like, we're maybe going to get rid of Bain

[01:27:19] and you just don't actually do it. And because you're not going yet, you have all these strategy

[01:27:24] chats and that sort of thing, but you're still being friendly to everyone. Like, even though we were

[01:27:28] maybe planning on voting out Bain left, like we still have like friendships that you're building and

[01:27:32] like real friendships, like you buy the fire, you say real stories, tell things about yourself.

[01:27:37] So I think that's, that's what I would definitely like if we can criticize anything, like I've been

[01:27:43] very nice to people today, but I'm going to criticize anything. I really think it's a bad move by Gabe

[01:27:48] to even bring up a name. Just don't say a name, just have it. Like you've got the power. Once you've

[01:27:52] got the power, just keep it, like keep everyone in the exact spot that they're in.

[01:27:58] I completely agree. I feel like he gave Kyle that ammo on a misread and it, I think it speaks to the

[01:28:05] issues I've had with Gabe last week where I felt like, I don't like how he talks about Sue and Caroline.

[01:28:09] Like, and clearly we didn't really see it, but clearly he gave that to Kyle who then brings it

[01:28:14] back to Sue and Caroline in a way that was really clear. It's like, he thinks you're goats and he does.

[01:28:18] So like, Kyle's not making that up. Like Kyle has got that from Gabe. The way that he looks at his

[01:28:22] allies, not like friends, but like pawns and has made that expressly clear to again,

[01:28:29] an enemy that he's not reading correctly, I think is very negative. And I think, but you know,

[01:28:34] he's doing, but he's doing it as well. Like yeah.

[01:28:37] The funny thing though, is that it's an overplay by Gabe, but he will luck out from it because

[01:28:44] to Sue, it's going to feel like an overplay from Kyle.

[01:28:48] Yeah. Well, that's why I criticized Sue. Everyone on this tribe.

[01:28:53] But it's funny because sometimes you just get lucky and like, it's going to feel weird to Sue.

[01:28:59] Well, Sue will be like, all right. So the guy who just voted for me is now telling me that

[01:29:03] one of my tightest allies who was willing to show me an idol is calling me a goat.

[01:29:09] And especially for Sue, like Sue is very strong personality, very strong person.

[01:29:15] She's probably going to go far, but she would be the sort of person to have the overconfidence

[01:29:22] in her own reads and that sort of thing. So it's just funny that it has combined to basically

[01:29:28] screw over Kyle more.

[01:29:29] Everyone's making the wrong decisions in a way that is like...

[01:29:32] That just screws Kyle even more.

[01:29:34] Yeah. I think, well, I think that, but I do think with Gabe,

[01:29:38] it will screw him up.

[01:29:39] I think in this mentality, even though it didn't go badly now will be his undoing.

[01:29:45] That's my prediction because I think that you can even see the fact that he goes to Kyle and not

[01:29:48] just offers a name. He does it so unilaterally. He doesn't bring in his allies.

[01:29:53] It's so individual because he doesn't see them as like equal partners.

[01:29:57] And I think that that underestimation and that sense of individuality and like this team game

[01:30:02] for a while, at least I think will be his undoing.

[01:30:04] And I think the way that it's so clear, even to Kyle, whatever he said that it's clear that they go to him,

[01:30:09] like that perception. I think that wrong perception will, and the way that he's approaching that game

[01:30:15] so individually will be wrong. But then for Sue, like if Sue was aware, is aware of that

[01:30:20] and knows he feels that way and is managing it, I think it's fine.

[01:30:22] You know, like that could be a Sandra style. Like, I don't know about that.

[01:30:25] Like, yeah, sure. I'm your goat. And I don't see why Sue is Gabe's goat.

[01:30:28] And I think she could ride that to the end and possibly win, even though it's a tough demographic.

[01:30:32] But I think that my criticism of Sue is in that, you know, she's allowed to be like,

[01:30:37] OK, well, Kyle is desperate and Gabe has worked with me and try and pass that out.

[01:30:40] And I think all of that is fair and true. But to me, it's the emotionality of like,

[01:30:44] Kyle voted for me and it's done. Like it's the cutting off the options.

[01:30:47] It's like the emotion without looking at it with logic. So that to me is like the criticism of Sue.

[01:30:52] Yeah. When it's so tight numbers, you really can't say no to anything.

[01:30:55] You have to be open to everything. Like obviously emotions do come into play.

[01:31:00] And it's like, I mean, I'm guilty of that as well.

[01:31:03] Like where you just let emotions kind of take control of your decision making.

[01:31:08] But you really have to try not to, especially early game where it's like you want to be open to these things.

[01:31:14] I think it's fine, though. Like I think they've got their alliance locked in.

[01:31:18] And I think it is just about an awareness. I think as well, like if Gabe talks about them like that to anyone else,

[01:31:24] where there isn't that direct conflict, where it just feels like, yeah, like you can't trust Kyle because obviously he's on the bottom and he's going to say anything now.

[01:31:33] As soon as anyone else backs up that story, then Gabe is screwed.

[01:31:37] And they will because it must be that clear. But like, yeah, Kyle should present like it's all the criticism.

[01:31:43] Like Kyle should know that he doesn't have the social capital with someone like Sue who will take it to heart when you vote for her.

[01:31:49] Like he should know that he can't kind of pull off a big swing and should just take the olive branch of not being next and then make it to his merge.

[01:31:55] As you said, you and Baden could have been the targets and you're the last two contenders left.

[01:31:59] So that's the run.

[01:32:00] You don't want to. Yeah.

[01:32:02] You don't want to like fire that gun because you might need the person later.

[01:32:06] Yeah, exactly.

[01:32:07] I think that that's I don't think I don't think Gabe should have done it.

[01:32:10] But in making that wrong decision, I think Kyle should have taken it.

[01:32:12] And in making that wrong decision of not taking it to Sue, I think Sue shouldn't have just distrusted him.

[01:32:17] And that is where I think that everyone was basically wrong.

[01:32:21] Yeah. And Kyle, it's funny because like, you know, it's the truth.

[01:32:26] But people don't trust the truth sometimes.

[01:32:29] Sometimes you need to have something else just because from the context that they're coming from,

[01:32:34] like they're just not going to believe something, even if it's true.

[01:32:37] Like there's some things where it's like maybe there's an advantage or something insane that happens where there's just no precedent for it.

[01:32:43] So people just don't believe it.

[01:32:44] And the same is true for some social circumstances.

[01:32:47] Like someone will betray someone or they'll be plotting to betray someone.

[01:32:51] And you just can't believe it because you're like, well, it just makes no sense to you.

[01:32:55] And so I think Kyle probably needed to come with a more gentle approach.

[01:33:02] Yeah.

[01:33:03] And you could just be like, well, like Gabe has this perception of you.

[01:33:08] Gabe is going to do this in the future.

[01:33:10] If you bring me, I'm not going to do that.

[01:33:12] Like I'm going to come at it from this angle.

[01:33:15] Can we work something out?

[01:33:17] Yeah.

[01:33:18] Everyone, I think, needed to be a lot calmer.

[01:33:20] As you're saying, Gabe, I think Gabe can do it with his allies and not give a name, just be a friend.

[01:33:25] I think Kyle can not necessarily go back and immediately use that information, like cut off that option.

[01:33:31] I think Sue was too harsh.

[01:33:32] I think it was just, it's too, it was too, too many lines, like way too many lines in Tuku.

[01:33:37] Yeah.

[01:33:38] So that, and then for Goddard, if we could talk about them slightly, how did you feel about kind of Annika on the journey?

[01:33:46] Yeah.

[01:33:46] She doesn't take, she doesn't make the decision to take the next advantage.

[01:33:51] Yeah.

[01:33:52] And then, yeah, she comes back and she tells Annika that she did nothing.

[01:33:56] And then she tells, I assume Sam as well.

[01:33:59] We still telling the girls that she was very well, she feels very good about the girls.

[01:34:02] I assume she told all her allies, including Sam.

[01:34:06] And I think it would be a big misread not to tell Sam because Sierra will tell him.

[01:34:09] So I assume she told all her allies what actually happened.

[01:34:12] Yeah.

[01:34:13] I feel like Goddard, everyone actually, apart from a few blemishes, everyone actually is playing a really decent game in terms of lying to each other, making alliances, making sort of secret things happen.

[01:34:27] There's a lot of in between sort of movements.

[01:34:31] Obviously, you've got some obvious stuff.

[01:34:35] Who is it?

[01:34:35] Sierra and Sam are the two that are just like very obviously together.

[01:34:40] But I think apart from that, everyone is doing quite well, just kind of playing with each other.

[01:34:43] And it's like a will they won't they sort of thing.

[01:34:46] Even with Andy as well, he's like managed to work his way back in.

[01:34:49] And sometimes, again, you get lucky.

[01:34:51] People just don't like each other.

[01:34:53] And so it's actually very good to see him actually pulling back because he had a very bad time, like just really just putting himself out there and showing himself to be very awkward.

[01:35:05] I would not like anyone throwing out concepts or stories or anything like that on a mat in front of other tribes.

[01:35:14] I would just would not want to play with them at all.

[01:35:17] Like I would much rather a smarter player than someone who's going to just absolutely be a train wreck.

[01:35:24] But he's back in it.

[01:35:26] I think for Annika, I think it's just one of those things like sometimes you just don't get along with people.

[01:35:33] But again, it just goes back to showing people's depth.

[01:35:36] Annika has been smart and she knows things.

[01:35:39] She's obviously studied going before there, but she also doesn't understand how she's coming across to some of the people like as being maybe too smart.

[01:35:50] And also too much of a leader, especially the Sam.

[01:35:57] And they just have like hilarious interactions.

[01:36:00] And it's so funny because I am handy in that.

[01:36:05] But I would push them more.

[01:36:06] I would bring them together in certain circumstances.

[01:36:10] I would as often as possible see if they'll work together on anything in camp possible.

[01:36:16] I'll bring each other's names up to each of them.

[01:36:18] That's what I used to do with Zach and Jackie.

[01:36:22] I would just bring up their names all the time to each other.

[01:36:24] And you point things out and you like show them what each other's doing.

[01:36:27] You're like, hey, like look at this.

[01:36:29] And it just drives them apart.

[01:36:31] So he was just having a good time enjoying them.

[01:36:33] And you see that whole hilarious thing where Sam's like going like this.

[01:36:37] And it is funny because Annika was right.

[01:36:41] But then.

[01:36:42] About the clothesline, yeah.

[01:36:44] Yeah.

[01:36:44] And she was right about a lot of things, but I don't think she's going about it the right way in arguing.

[01:36:51] And neither is Sam.

[01:36:52] They're both wrong.

[01:36:53] But yeah, her going on the journey.

[01:36:55] If I was her, I just would have gone and not put my hand in.

[01:36:58] But that wasn't a choice.

[01:36:59] So I think to only accept the one minor punishment with her thinking the way she's thinking of it being like a four versus one, I would just take the no vote.

[01:37:12] Well, that's what I think the crux of it is.

[01:37:14] As you said, like she's often right.

[01:37:16] But the issue is she's not understanding that her, I think the perception of her and also her place in the game.

[01:37:21] Yeah.

[01:37:21] So like, yeah, she might be right about the clothesline.

[01:37:23] I think probably the bed is subjective, but it's about taking that conflict too far.

[01:37:28] And while like Sam is a part of that, Sam has an out.

[01:37:30] Like Sam has Andy.

[01:37:31] What is Annika's out?

[01:37:32] That's her ally.

[01:37:33] Or she thinks her out is Sierra, which is wrong.

[01:37:35] So I think that's the criticism of like not knowing her place.

[01:37:38] And like that extends to the journey to the point where she goes on in her mind, she's in a four against Andy.

[01:37:44] So it makes all the sense in the world to just like leave it here.

[01:37:47] I have to lose my vote.

[01:37:49] You'll vote out Andy.

[01:37:50] I have it back next time and we'll move forward if it gets to a 2-2.

[01:37:53] I definitely have my vote.

[01:37:54] I definitely can't lose it for if we're getting to the 2-2 or if we're going to move through to a merge.

[01:37:58] You know, I'll be with my four.

[01:38:00] She comes back.

[01:38:01] She tells, I assume, all her allies because that's where she thinks the game sits.

[01:38:05] And where she actually sits, she probably actually could have used putting her hand in again.

[01:38:10] You know, she probably could use the advantage, but she doesn't know that.

[01:38:13] She's not in a good spot.

[01:38:15] She probably is the next target for someone like Sam who has an idol and the ally in Andy.

[01:38:20] So I think she's behind the eight ball in that.

[01:38:22] You know, for where she sits, she could come back and tell Sam and Sierra,

[01:38:26] yeah, I've got something.

[01:38:27] Bluff something.

[01:38:28] You know, roam them.

[01:38:29] Now I'm using it as a verb.

[01:38:31] But yeah, like make them so scared that maybe you can't go against her.

[01:38:33] We can't split the vote.

[01:38:35] Does she have an idol who she's going to play it on?

[01:38:37] Does she have a one tribal idol that she could play on her or Rachel?

[01:38:39] Like maybe now I've been forced into it.

[01:38:41] Do you really want to strong arm people though?

[01:38:44] But is it strong arming just to bluff?

[01:38:46] Like, but the thing is, if she, I think if she knew where she sits,

[01:38:49] and we don't really know where she sits because it could be, you know,

[01:38:53] again, it's all Schrodinger's allies in terms of where will Sam go.

[01:38:56] But if she knew that Sam's really working with Andy and that Andy's making these connections

[01:39:00] and she could be the next target, then it's dire enough to want the thing,

[01:39:04] to bust the thing.

[01:39:05] If that's not the case, then no.

[01:39:06] And where she thinks she is, then definitely not.

[01:39:08] But I just wish for her she knew more that there is trouble in paradise.

[01:39:13] And if she knew that, she might have a different approach.

[01:39:15] And she certainly probably didn't fight with Sam as much, at least.

[01:39:20] I definitely think for the most part they're all playing very well.

[01:39:23] And I think that they're all hiding from each other.

[01:39:25] And I think Annika's just in the unfortunate position where she is coming out on the bottom

[01:39:30] and she doesn't know it because everyone's playing quite well,

[01:39:33] just bluffing each other.

[01:39:35] But it's like, it's basically the opposite of the situation at Tukku,

[01:39:39] where it's like you do not have very obvious things.

[01:39:42] And maybe they haven't even decided themselves which way they want to go yet.

[01:39:47] Sierra definitely seems like she was really undecided.

[01:39:51] Sam was like suggesting maybe even playing an idol on Andy.

[01:39:55] And she did not seem pleased with that.

[01:39:58] Or maybe she was just surprised.

[01:39:59] I don't know.

[01:40:00] I do think Sam wears the pants that are too heavy on the clothesline.

[01:40:03] Like, I think that she will go with him.

[01:40:07] Really?

[01:40:08] And I think that maybe that's what Annika's missing.

[01:40:10] I think she thinks it's the three girls and that Sierra would be loyal there.

[01:40:13] And I think Sierra's loyalty is to Sam.

[01:40:15] Yeah.

[01:40:15] It is really hard to tell.

[01:40:18] Yeah.

[01:40:18] That one is hard because they aren't being forceful with it,

[01:40:22] which in many ways is good.

[01:40:23] But I just wish that Annika kind of knew that it was even an option that it might be.

[01:40:27] And I don't think she has any sense of that.

[01:40:28] And I think that that is a concern.

[01:40:30] A lot of danger there.

[01:40:31] Yeah.

[01:40:32] But yeah, I think she had the right call for the information she has.

[01:40:36] She's just unfortunate that she's actually playing with the good players on this season

[01:40:40] that are actually like hiding everything and not keeping everything like blatantly out

[01:40:45] in the open.

[01:40:46] I do think that like if I had to put my money on a tribe for someone winning, I do gotta.

[01:40:52] Like, I think that Rachel's an option.

[01:40:53] I think like Annika, you know, with the mistakes, like she could win.

[01:40:57] I think Sam obviously is probably like the leader in the clubhouse from like an edgy perspective.

[01:41:02] Like Sue could be as well.

[01:41:03] But I think, yeah, I think that Tuku have their issues.

[01:41:05] I now think that Labo have their issues.

[01:41:07] And I think that Wild Goddard also have their issues.

[01:41:09] And it's still not a tribe name, I can say.

[01:41:12] Definitely better at hiding.

[01:41:13] Yeah.

[01:41:14] I think that they've got a little bit more legroom.

[01:41:16] Yeah.

[01:41:16] Just as a survival thing as well.

[01:41:18] I find it really interesting.

[01:41:20] Like Annika and other people obviously do a lot of YouTube, a lot of Googling, practice

[01:41:24] themselves.

[01:41:25] Like they've shown people in the new era really being onto it.

[01:41:29] I don't get why people are still sleeping on bamboo.

[01:41:31] And not only that, haven't learned how to, I mean, you've, in reality, you've actually

[01:41:38] got two choices.

[01:41:39] There is no point sleeping on fully curved bamboo.

[01:41:42] There's just no point.

[01:41:43] Like it is so horrible.

[01:41:44] What do you need to be sleeping on?

[01:41:45] Well, either the dirt.

[01:41:48] I know that doesn't sound great, but it's like.

[01:41:50] No, it sounds better than bamboo.

[01:41:51] It really does.

[01:41:51] It's way softer.

[01:41:53] And if you sleep on the dirt by the fire, then you've got like a nice warmth the whole

[01:41:56] time.

[01:41:57] And you also get reminded.

[01:41:59] It's like, it literally is like an alarm clock because as soon as the fire gets too

[01:42:04] small, then you get cold and you wake up and then you put more wood on the fire.

[01:42:07] And it's just like, it's literally like, like nature's alarm clock.

[01:42:13] And so I would just do that.

[01:42:15] Like I just sleep in the dirt.

[01:42:16] But I've slept on bamboo maybe the first like week or something that I first played.

[01:42:23] And I was just like, this is stupid.

[01:42:24] This is terrible.

[01:42:26] But if you aren't going to.

[01:42:27] It doesn't seem like it would be comfortable.

[01:42:28] Yeah, no, it's not.

[01:42:29] It's really hard.

[01:42:30] It's like anti-comfortable.

[01:42:31] It seems like the exact thing you don't want to sleep on.

[01:42:34] Actively making it.

[01:42:35] Round hard curves of pain.

[01:42:38] Well, if you aren't going to sleep on it, you're meant to like cut it into very like

[01:42:42] long strips.

[01:42:42] So, and basically the less you can make it curvy, the more flat you can get it, the better

[01:42:48] it's going to be.

[01:42:49] So like actual bamboo beds, like they've just turned it into like very fine strips.

[01:42:54] And with the machete that you've got, you probably are not going to get through all that,

[01:42:59] but you could give it a crack.

[01:43:01] Like you just sort of like quarter it and then you make that smaller and you just like

[01:43:04] progressively over time, you can like cut a few every day and just like get it slowly

[01:43:09] to like go down into flat.

[01:43:11] But I would just sleep in the dirt.

[01:43:13] I mean, it's just, it's just way easier.

[01:43:15] I would rather have a fire like and not even bother with a shelter.

[01:43:19] You just like slowly make the shelter in case it rains.

[01:43:23] Like if it rains, you're screwed anyway.

[01:43:25] Like you're never getting it fully waterproof.

[01:43:27] So like, I just wouldn't even bother with the bed and the shelter.

[01:43:33] So she was wrong on that?

[01:43:34] Oh yeah.

[01:43:35] That was like the one thing she was wrong on.

[01:43:36] She seemed very smart on a lot of other things.

[01:43:39] They're like talking, I think that they talked about.

[01:43:42] She just wants to sleep.

[01:43:43] I'm loving it.

[01:43:44] I feel like it's weird that people are talking about sleep so much.

[01:43:48] It is a funny thing in the game.

[01:43:50] Like you just really don't get that much sleep.

[01:43:53] Roman told me he slept really well on Survivor.

[01:43:55] He's like, I slept better than here.

[01:43:59] So good for your back sleeping in the dirt.

[01:44:01] He said really well.

[01:44:04] This is exhausting.

[01:44:05] Maybe, maybe they had the hammocks or something.

[01:44:07] No, I don't think I slept that much.

[01:44:10] Maybe a few hours a night for the most part,

[01:44:13] maybe a bit more in All Stars, but that's a whole nother story.

[01:44:18] All right.

[01:44:19] Well, we've been criticizing people the whole time.

[01:44:21] I have been, you haven't been.

[01:44:22] I found this really hard.

[01:44:25] I hate to paint us both.

[01:44:26] Don't, don't take that out of context.

[01:44:28] I'm going to, let's do the chizzy.

[01:44:29] I have more criticisms in the chizzy,

[01:44:31] but we will now reward people with points.

[01:44:33] Take it away.

[01:44:33] Jacob Sager-Weinstein and MC Color.

[01:44:35] Two, three.

[01:44:37] One, one, one, three.

[01:44:39] One, two, three.

[01:44:40] It's getting, it's getting, it's getting kind of chizzy.

[01:44:42] Three, two, one.

[01:44:44] One.

[01:44:45] I almost got that perfect.

[01:44:48] Do you want to go first?

[01:44:51] Look, I'm undecided at this point.

[01:44:53] Everyone is very like in the middle.

[01:44:56] And then we've obviously been talking about like the pros and cons because it's like Rome

[01:45:01] has done a lot.

[01:45:03] It has a lot of power, but it's like, what's more important?

[01:45:07] Because I'm only on one week.

[01:45:10] Should I just be basing my chizzy votes on the here and the now?

[01:45:14] Or am I supposed to be doing it on the moves that will benefit people's overall game?

[01:45:21] Because I don't think that Rome's making moves towards winning.

[01:45:23] I think he's just collecting a lot of power that's probably going to dissipate mid-merge.

[01:45:30] I mean, it is meant to be episodic.

[01:45:32] But if you don't think that it's, it's, if it's episodic, but in a way that's not going

[01:45:37] to, in a way, improve his odds enough that it's impactful, then I don't think you can

[01:45:42] even credit the episode.

[01:45:43] So I, I don't know.

[01:45:45] Like, it has to be who's doing well.

[01:45:48] If you, if you, if it's, is doing well in a very like significant way for the medium

[01:45:56] to long-term, like that might be episodic for you.

[01:45:58] You know what I'm doing?

[01:45:59] It doesn't make any sense of what I'm trying to, you know, like that might be what doing

[01:46:02] well this week meant for you.

[01:46:04] Yeah.

[01:46:06] You go first, but I think I've got, I think I've got my votes.

[01:46:10] All right.

[01:46:11] I found it really tough.

[01:46:13] I'm going to give three points to Rome.

[01:46:14] As I said, big pros and cons.

[01:46:16] I think using the advantages to gain allies has been very good.

[01:46:20] You know, he comes back from the journey.

[01:46:21] He tells them about it.

[01:46:22] It works, you know, through some sort of combination of fear, intimidation and loyalty, which he

[01:46:27] does say like, you know, if we, if we're giving them all the power, we think we can control

[01:46:31] them.

[01:46:32] I don't know that they can, but they think they can.

[01:46:35] And he's given that trust in a way that has won them over and also overwhelmed them.

[01:46:39] And I have to credit that.

[01:46:41] You know, he, he's always doing the most and it's working for now.

[01:46:45] Now I don't think it's a game that can win, but if he can play any type of winning game,

[01:46:50] it's this, it's doing the most for the, like just running the fastest for 26 days.

[01:46:55] If it exists, it's this.

[01:46:56] And so I have to credit that when it's at its best.

[01:46:58] And I think it worked really well here and that he has the power.

[01:47:01] Um, yeah, good to go on the track to push for that.

[01:47:04] Um, you know, to take that risk.

[01:47:06] Um, I will, I have to say, you know, as I said, the social game is not good.

[01:47:10] The self-awareness when he calls TK arrogant, very concerning.

[01:47:15] Um, the fact that he thinks he's lying well about losing the voter.

[01:47:17] No one believes him very bad.

[01:47:19] He doesn't realize everyone can tell he's found the idol.

[01:47:22] Not good either.

[01:47:23] Um, I've just got a list here.

[01:47:25] Um, later he's trying to sell that the idol is from the journey.

[01:47:27] They all know it's not, um, in the conversation with soul, even when, when souls like, but

[01:47:33] wouldn't you be trying to bluff me?

[01:47:35] And he's like, no.

[01:47:37] And then he comes back to them and he's like, that went very well.

[01:47:39] So concerning.

[01:47:41] Um, yeah.

[01:47:42] We're putting up people with the fish.

[01:47:44] Um, so many things, so many things.

[01:47:48] There's a lot to criticize and a lot to praise.

[01:47:52] And he's still going to get three points.

[01:47:53] Um, yeah.

[01:47:55] Yeah.

[01:47:55] And I think as well, it's like, I, another thing I will credit is that he could have

[01:47:59] assured this by playing both of the trinkets, by playing the vote steal to make sure they

[01:48:05] can't split by playing the idol.

[01:48:07] Um, cause at that point, I think even T needs plan in my mind, even the one I came up with

[01:48:11] would be done.

[01:48:13] Um, but I think he needs the, the vote steal.

[01:48:16] He gets it done without the vote steal.

[01:48:18] And I want to credit that he reads that he doesn't need the vote steal, but I can never

[01:48:21] credit his read.

[01:48:22] So I would, what I will credit is the bravery, the faith, and just barreling through with

[01:48:27] some amount of risk and all of the intensity to have, I think a huge amount of power right

[01:48:32] now.

[01:48:32] And I think he's the most powerful person in the tribe now.

[01:48:34] And I think he got that done this week.

[01:48:36] So I'm giving him three points despite many, many, many issues.

[01:48:39] That's three points.

[01:48:40] Two points.

[01:48:41] I didn't know either.

[01:48:42] I'm going to give it to Genevieve who is someone fittingly.

[01:48:44] I think we've barely spoken about in this, in this podcast, even though she's a big part

[01:48:50] of this, but we're not seeing it.

[01:48:51] Um, and I was talking about this with Omer and Zach and they thought like, do they really

[01:48:54] want to work with Genevieve over Seoul or Asia?

[01:49:00] If so, I think that's crazy.

[01:49:02] If that was what contributed to Tini and Kishan's thinking about what they wanted to do, I hugely

[01:49:07] disagree because I think that Rome, Genevieve and the advantage that they've left with

[01:49:11] them are way too powerful.

[01:49:12] And I think that you'd want to work with Asia and Seoul anyway, but even without that, I

[01:49:16] think even if you slightly wanted to work with Genevieve more, that duo was an advantage

[01:49:20] in the capacity to find more is way too dangerous.

[01:49:22] So if that was any part of it, I hugely disagree.

[01:49:24] I have to credit Genevieve just in case it was, you know, like just, you know, we did

[01:49:27] see a bit of a connection with Tini in week one.

[01:49:30] And, um, there has to be some workability there.

[01:49:34] Like they are making this choice on workability and I don't think it's really with Rome.

[01:49:37] So maybe Genevieve is like the Trish to his Tony.

[01:49:38] Um, and I'm having to surmise a lot because she is very purple.

[01:49:42] If it was social and they chose Genevieve, then she is being done so dirty in the edit

[01:49:46] and she is like a social queen.

[01:49:48] And even so I wish we got more from her to kind of understand this, but choosing Genevieve

[01:49:52] and the power she now has with Rome and the win that they've got together and any contribution

[01:49:55] that she had socially towards that, I'm going to give two points to, even though I'm

[01:49:59] having to surmise a lot of it.

[01:50:00] And then I'm going to give a point to Andy.

[01:50:03] Um, you know, it felt like kind of a cute, like one point thing, giving over shot in

[01:50:06] the dark to Sierra, I thought was great.

[01:50:09] It worked for Sierra.

[01:50:10] Rob was talking about this a bit of know-it-alls about like, you might give it to someone.

[01:50:13] Like if you were to give it to a gay, gay would be like, and now I voted you out because

[01:50:15] I want your shot in the dark.

[01:50:16] But I think that giving it to Sierra, we see that it works, that it's making that social

[01:50:20] connection.

[01:50:21] And it's with a group that, that didn't split on John.

[01:50:26] So a group that's not so worried about like shot in the dark that you could be, because

[01:50:32] you could go the anti-social way, like I might use my shot in the dark and then are you going

[01:50:37] to split on me or you can't split on me?

[01:50:39] Like now, am I like, are you scared of me?

[01:50:41] And they like, he could have done that.

[01:50:43] But I think this group isn't as scared of shot in the dark and will kind of, you know, go

[01:50:47] through that and take that small risk.

[01:50:49] So without wanting to bluff it and that being very anti-social, he chooses, I think the

[01:50:53] much better social path.

[01:50:55] It was so interesting to see that it really worked as well.

[01:51:01] And like, you see like the different confessionals and Sierra's like, oh, I don't really trust

[01:51:06] him.

[01:51:06] Like, which is fair enough.

[01:51:08] Yeah.

[01:51:08] But then that he just went above and beyond to really push it.

[01:51:13] And like, it really did actually lock it in.

[01:51:17] And I think sometimes you just have to do that.

[01:51:20] But it is a really cool thing that you can use as a tool to be like, look, like I'm

[01:51:25] not going to play my shot in the dark.

[01:51:26] Like just to give someone confidence, like, because it's something like if you can like

[01:51:32] demonstrate something, it's so much better than words.

[01:51:35] So for him to do that, I thought was actually really good.

[01:51:38] And like, if he's just going to play shot in the dark, like then they'll just vote for

[01:51:41] him and then he'll be immune and he won't have voted.

[01:51:45] So they'll go back to a re-vote and that'll suck for the four.

[01:51:48] But I think that they would take that risk.

[01:51:50] So he's still going to get the votes and like 84% chance, like he will go home.

[01:51:53] So instead of that, he's, you know, up those odds by making like a really clear connection

[01:51:58] and not relying on the tiny chance and using it socially in its novel.

[01:52:01] And I know Emily did it and people have kind of like been interesting with the shot in

[01:52:04] the dark before, but I'd like that he went out of his way and did it with the right person

[01:52:07] with Sierra.

[01:52:08] So I'm giving him a point.

[01:52:09] And I'm interested to hear your point because I feel like these are all very episodic.

[01:52:13] Like, do I think that Andy's doing the best in Goddard to get a point, the one

[01:52:17] got a point?

[01:52:17] No.

[01:52:18] But I think this episode we saw like with the observational skills and how he was kind

[01:52:22] of using that, I thought was good.

[01:52:24] He's obviously getting to narrate it.

[01:52:25] I think he's building back.

[01:52:27] So it's like one episodic point.

[01:52:29] Rome is very, you know, episodic.

[01:52:31] I don't know that it's a long-term game, but it's working now.

[01:52:33] Genevieve's part of that.

[01:52:34] So mine are very episodic.

[01:52:35] So I'm interested to see where you go with the jizzy.

[01:52:38] All right.

[01:52:39] Yeah.

[01:52:40] That's where I went.

[01:52:41] Here's my votes.

[01:52:43] And unfortunately, I haven't put Genevieve on here, even though she's doing very well,

[01:52:48] because I didn't see anything.

[01:52:50] It's just one of those unfortunate things.

[01:52:54] So I'm going to say teeny three chizzies.

[01:52:58] And you might not like that.

[01:52:59] Well, I'm surprised.

[01:53:00] I mean, I think I'm only halfway through No-Hitals, but Stephen was going to give

[01:53:03] teeny the fishy.

[01:53:04] And that really surprised me too.

[01:53:05] I like the play.

[01:53:07] I think just, and some of it as well as just the episode, like you get to see the full

[01:53:13] thought process.

[01:53:14] She was testing people.

[01:53:15] She was checking for ramifications.

[01:53:18] She was checking how people would react to things.

[01:53:21] She was really gauging how people interact with her, how she can work with them.

[01:53:25] She's trying to gain as much knowledge out of one single thing as possible.

[01:53:30] So I like that.

[01:53:32] I think that to me, looking at all the numbers, it looks like the boring, safe play, but evaluating

[01:53:40] every single thing, I would probably go that way.

[01:53:44] Well, you didn't evaluate doing the live two, two, two, and then changing on.

[01:53:48] It's fine.

[01:53:48] Don't worry.

[01:53:50] Taking all the power for yourself.

[01:53:52] I mean, I don't know.

[01:53:54] I don't know if I want that.

[01:53:55] Like, yeah, it's a good resume buffer, but I probably would rather take a strong four

[01:54:01] with a lightning rod.

[01:54:03] I like the idea of a lightning rod in a very fast 18 person season.

[01:54:08] Again, it depends on the context.

[01:54:09] If I'm in an Australian survivor season, maybe not, maybe just seize power.

[01:54:14] But I think is a big thing as well.

[01:54:17] Yeah.

[01:54:17] Yeah.

[01:54:18] And to me, like, he's the one that will take everything personally and just go crazy.

[01:54:25] And he's also the person where you can just blindside him, merge and find some other connections.

[01:54:30] So I don't mind that from 10 year old.

[01:54:32] I think that was the whole process of doing things properly, checking for how things would

[01:54:36] kind of play out and then making a decision.

[01:54:40] It was a decisive decision and you've got a buffer and you've got a lightning rod to be a shield

[01:54:46] for at least a little while.

[01:54:47] Maybe not very long, but I like that play.

[01:54:50] Rome has to get two votes, even though a lot of praise, a lot of things you could criticize.

[01:54:58] He's playing aggressively.

[01:54:59] He's playing hard.

[01:55:00] But you can never, ever say that he's not giving it everything, which I like.

[01:55:05] Like, he's trying to be a part of every single thing.

[01:55:07] He's backing it up with good performances.

[01:55:10] Like, he is doing well in everything that he actually does, except for, you could say,

[01:55:15] social game.

[01:55:16] But maybe it's just not in him to take a backward step.

[01:55:20] Like, it's just who he is as a person.

[01:55:22] So having to give him two votes, he's playing the way he plays, which might not get him

[01:55:26] the win, but it's working for him.

[01:55:30] And he'd have to strong arm the entire game from start to finish.

[01:55:33] We've seen that it's happened before.

[01:55:35] I don't think he can, but we've seen it happen.

[01:55:40] One vote, I wasn't sure.

[01:55:43] Can I ask a question before I do it?

[01:55:47] Garda doing their puzzle.

[01:55:49] Was it just me or did Rachel just, like, dominate it?

[01:55:54] Yes.

[01:55:55] I mean, they didn't start at first.

[01:55:59] And then they basically caught up to first.

[01:56:01] They won.

[01:56:01] And then they won.

[01:56:03] Yeah.

[01:56:03] So, all right, I'm giving it to Rachel there at one point, because those puzzles in reality

[01:56:08] are nightmares.

[01:56:10] Like, they are not.

[01:56:11] They're not good.

[01:56:12] It's like, you've got this challenge.

[01:56:13] It's like, yeah, you've got the, like, the start bit.

[01:56:16] It still just comes down to the puzzle.

[01:56:18] That puzzle is rough.

[01:56:19] And, like, a seahorse.

[01:56:21] Like, it's something that they probably haven't ever seen before.

[01:56:24] You've got patterns, but then it looks like it's the same color scheme going the whole

[01:56:28] way up.

[01:56:28] You don't know the shape of it necessarily.

[01:56:30] You don't know exactly what it is starting.

[01:56:32] It's not like it's an obvious one where it's like, oh, like, you just look at the flag

[01:56:36] and it's the same symbol.

[01:56:37] Or, like, it was a seahorse.

[01:56:40] And you have to build it from the start up.

[01:56:42] Like, you can't even do other things.

[01:56:43] So, I'm giving a point to shout out to some actual challenge prowess.

[01:56:51] That, yeah, I feel like on top of that, like, she's in an actual good place in Qatar.

[01:56:56] Like, we haven't seen a lot, but it's the sort of thing where she's in a duo, but, and

[01:57:02] they might be on the bottom as a duo, but she's not the one that's, like, actively

[01:57:05] being worked against.

[01:57:07] And she doesn't seem to have a bad relationship with anyone either.

[01:57:10] She seems to be making reasonable connections with people.

[01:57:13] Never sort of, like, heard a sort of bad step from her.

[01:57:16] So, she didn't have one point as well.

[01:57:18] I like that.

[01:57:19] I mean, I think that Matt said last week, you know, Rachel's his winner pick, and, like,

[01:57:22] you're seeing that in her as well.

[01:57:23] And I think it's hard because this is her first point on the chizzy board, but she has

[01:57:27] been doing well.

[01:57:29] It's just, like, the dynamics have kind of been elsewhere, and we've kind of been looking

[01:57:32] more at, like, what Sam is doing.

[01:57:34] We kind of had the stuff with her and Andy in the first episode.

[01:57:36] So we've seen, like, kind of, like, small and negative things, but, like, generally,

[01:57:40] I think she is doing well.

[01:57:41] And, like, again, like, yeah, making up the space and the challenges when they voted out

[01:57:45] John from a challenge perspective and have not lost since.

[01:57:48] Even though Andy, to be fair, they kept Andy from a challenge perspective, and he did kind

[01:57:51] of screw things up.

[01:57:52] But, like, they have, as a tribe, been able to kind of make that up.

[01:57:55] And they've made good or not being the disaster tribe that I thought they might be in keeping

[01:57:58] Andy.

[01:57:58] So we'll kind of see where it goes from that.

[01:58:01] So the points are Teenies and Sue are both tying on nine.

[01:58:06] Rome and Sam are then on five.

[01:58:08] And then we've got Jen on two.

[01:58:09] We've got Andy on two.

[01:58:11] We've got Rachel in one and Asia left on one.

[01:58:13] And I think that's correct.

[01:58:14] Do you have a winner, Pip?

[01:58:15] By the way, do you have someone you think is going to win?

[01:58:18] Oh, I mean, with...

[01:58:21] I mean, I've been wrong with Edgic.

[01:58:22] I don't read Edgic that well anymore, but going off it, I'm going to say Sue.

[01:58:34] I'm going to say Sue.

[01:58:36] I think it is.

[01:58:37] But what about her game?

[01:58:39] Like, do you think Sue will actually win?

[01:58:40] Or is that to that?

[01:58:41] I feel like she's got strong enough convictions that she'll make a good talker at any given

[01:58:50] tribal.

[01:58:51] I think her negatives are actually going to work positively for her.

[01:58:57] I don't think she really has it in her to really threaten people in terms of like idols

[01:59:03] and that sort of thing.

[01:59:04] But I think that'll just become a pro.

[01:59:06] Like, I think she'll just sort of shoot through due to perceived lower threat.

[01:59:11] I do think she has the possibility to actually be an undercover, very good individual challenge

[01:59:17] person.

[01:59:18] Like, we'll have to see that.

[01:59:20] But I think she basically has the correct types of strengths and weaknesses where the

[01:59:27] weaknesses actually just end up being fine.

[01:59:30] She's already got an absolute ride or die partner and she's got a couple of other sort of people

[01:59:37] on her side.

[01:59:38] So I feel like she would be the one that would really just sort of like shoot through and

[01:59:43] then actually have a lot of strengths that benefit the end game.

[01:59:46] So I'm going to go Sue.

[01:59:48] Amazing.

[01:59:48] Amazing.

[01:59:49] Well, that's it.

[01:59:50] That's all I have.

[01:59:51] Thank you, Harry.

[01:59:52] Thank you for coming here on Moving Weekend.

[01:59:54] That's all right.

[01:59:55] I really enjoyed our discussion.

[01:59:57] This week was kind of driving me crazy in that there was just so much.

[02:00:01] And I feel...

[02:00:01] I don't know that I feel like I found solutions with you, but I feel like if any...

[02:00:06] It created more questions, but like still...

[02:00:10] I think question marks are okay.

[02:00:13] I think it's okay to not have a decisive this is correct or this is incorrect.

[02:00:18] And I think that's what makes this game, even after decades, a really cool thing.

[02:00:23] So I think we keep the question marks.

[02:00:25] There's the unknown.

[02:00:27] Yeah.

[02:00:27] Yeah.

[02:00:28] Where can people find you?

[02:00:29] You're not really tweeting about the show, really.

[02:00:32] Not at the moment.

[02:00:33] I don't think people can find me.

[02:00:37] You can find you here every October.

[02:00:40] Find me randomly.

[02:00:41] No, we'll do it quicker than October.

[02:00:42] That makes me feel sad that I'm not meaning to do that.

[02:00:46] You can find me on Twitter.

[02:00:48] I will randomly tweet about reality shows.

[02:00:52] It's been a bit of a buffet recently.

[02:00:53] We've had The Circle.

[02:00:54] We've had The Challenges season 40.

[02:00:57] It's like a really big milestone one.

[02:00:59] Survivor's been cool.

[02:01:01] Australia vs. the World is coming.

[02:01:03] So it's a big time for reality TV.

[02:01:06] And if the spoiler cast is to be believed, we won't go into it.

[02:01:09] But you've played with a lot of people on that drive.

[02:01:12] Yes, I have.

[02:01:14] Yeah, it's weird.

[02:01:17] It's weird seeing so many people that I've talked to and played with in one season.

[02:01:25] Yeah.

[02:01:26] Yeah.

[02:01:26] Like that's the majority of that tribe, if that's the tribe.

[02:01:29] So crazy stuff.

[02:01:31] A lot of Survivor is going to be happening in 2025.

[02:01:34] Right now, you can find me at Shannon Gates.

[02:01:36] Follow, subscribe to the International Survivor Happer podcast.

[02:01:39] This is on YouTube.

[02:01:39] I meant to say that last week.

[02:01:41] And I meant to say it earlier than this.

[02:01:43] If you've listened to it, it's too late for this one.

[02:01:45] You know, but like I'm trying to put up the news on YouTube.

[02:01:48] This is on video now.

[02:01:49] So we got Harry, you know, bright and early on Moving Weekend.

[02:01:53] His smiling face.

[02:01:54] That's something you can check out.

[02:01:55] So please, you know, watch it on YouTube and listen to it.

[02:01:59] Do play.

[02:01:59] I'll help the numbers.

[02:02:01] No, I don't need to beg.

[02:02:02] It's fine.

[02:02:03] Thank you for listening.

[02:02:04] I, yeah, next week I have Teresa from South Africa.

[02:02:07] She's going to be my guest.

[02:02:08] She's clearly not on Australia vs. the World.

[02:02:11] Or she's been very busy lately.

[02:02:13] She'll be my guest next week.

[02:02:14] I also have an article coming out, I think tomorrow,

[02:02:19] on the confessional, which is kind of controversial.

[02:02:22] I'm kind of anxious about it.

[02:02:23] But I've been working on it for months

[02:02:25] and I've poured like all of my analysis into it.

[02:02:28] I can see that Kevin is audio noting me.

[02:02:30] I assume it's still going out tomorrow.

[02:02:31] It's just finalizing the article.

[02:02:34] It is about the jury.

[02:02:36] Okay.

[02:02:36] I thought let's talk about the most controversial thing.

[02:02:40] Let's get people talking.

[02:02:42] Let's be a lightning rod.

[02:02:43] Let's be a remote on this.

[02:02:44] So there's an article about that.

[02:02:46] I've truly poured like months of analysis and thought into.

[02:02:50] Yeah.

[02:02:50] So it's going to, I might, yeah, I'm kind of,

[02:02:53] I'm really actually very anxious about it,

[02:02:54] but I'm really, really proud of it.

[02:02:56] So I think that's coming out tomorrow.

[02:02:58] So that's what's happening.

[02:02:59] And yeah, follow, subscribe, watch on YouTube,

[02:03:02] all the things.

[02:03:03] Harry, thank you so much.

[02:03:04] This was such a, such a fun time.

[02:03:06] That's all right.

[02:03:06] It's always good to chat about the pros, the cons,

[02:03:09] the positives, the negatives.

[02:03:11] And I'll get back to tweeting.

[02:03:13] So I'll, I'll share a couple of things.

[02:03:16] Love it.

[02:03:17] All right.

[02:03:18] Well, thank you.

[02:03:18] Thank you to everyone for listening.

[02:03:20] Thank you to our team behind the scenes.

[02:03:21] And I will see you next week.

[02:03:22] Bye.

[02:03:23] Bye everyone.