Today, Mike and Rob Cesternino (@robcesternino) discuss Season 40: Winners at War.[00:00:00] Do you want someone who understands you like no other? Someone who can be your wish and experience the most beautiful adventure of your life with you? The shopping platform Shopify revolutionizes millions of companies worldwide. With Shopify you only focus on your online shop, without programming or design knowledge.
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[00:01:15] An off-season series where we're trying to figure out who could and should come back for the upcoming season of Survivor 50. And today you better be ready. It's time to go back to early 2020. Yes, we have to. It's mandatory to talk about Survivor winners at war.
[00:01:37] The big 20th anniversary season of Survivor pulling off a format that a lot of fans thought would have never been done in the form of an all winner season.
[00:01:45] Produced our second two-time winner ever in Tony Blockos and at this point was the last returning season before of course Survivor 50 on the horizon. So will it spill some tea leaves or spill some tea if you will as to what we might be looking forward to in 50?
[00:02:02] Who is to say but I'm looking forward as always to talking with my guest today. And they say a drink before war is always a good idea.
[00:02:09] And I get to talk to this tall drink of water for a bunch of seasons this countdown and we're reaching our final one together at least before this battle concludes with winners at war. It is Rob Cesarino. Winners at war. What is it for?
[00:02:25] Yeah, remember before like a Tevin and Soda joined ASCAP they actually like hired someone to write a theme song for winners at war. Yeah, I mean Survivor pre new era like the last drags of the old era they were trying some stuff.
[00:02:39] Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean we got a whole ass survivor currency before crypto was even a thing. Yes. I mean I think it was a thing. I mean it wasn't as mainstream. It wasn't as mainstream. It wasn't as hot but yeah people had been boy.
[00:02:54] I don't know what's the price on the fire token market. I mean it's tough because we definitely also saw a case of as they said a survivor economy and Natalie Anderson becoming the 1% but in this case the 1% did not finish number one.
[00:03:11] Yes. Okay, well she didn't have the most fire tokens. I don't know but you know that Mike I don't think we're bringing fire tokens back for season 50. No, I mean again if we look in the sliding doors universe of have the pandemic not happened.
[00:03:27] I think a lot of things would have changed about the world and one of them would have been of course as Jeff has mythologized season 41 probably would have had required. Dawn of the new era.
[00:03:36] Dawn of the new era we have of course like the image right he had of Rick Devon's general store where he's selling advantages to people for fire tokens so suffice it to say a lot has changed about survivors since then
[00:03:49] and yeah because of this sort of mandated hiatus that production is on it allows them to come back with fresh eyes into the new era and restructure things in probably its biggest way possible.
[00:04:02] And so where does it really does feel like the sort of like last bastion of the first 40 seasons which feel not entirely different but significantly. A true celebration of the first 40 seasons of Survivor but how instructive will it be for the first 50 seasons of Survivor.
[00:04:22] It's a great question because look you have said it I have said it a good amount of my guests have said it that we're not necessarily team legends when it comes to what we want to see from 50 and one of the reasons why might be the fact that a lot of the people that would be on that
[00:04:36] cast we just saw 10 seasons ago and granted again it was a different type of season it was 39 days it was all winners the edge of extinction was involved.
[00:04:46] And but we we for that mystery of like oh what has happened to this person since Survivor appearances we got a lot of those questions answered on this and not just so much that we just saw them that in winners at war
[00:05:01] but winners at war was so much presented as like one last ride one yeah let's do a code let's get the gang back together for one last job and like I think that there might be a couple of people that you'd say OK well I don't know if it was necessarily
[00:05:15] but I think that even the end of the line for some people but you know like you had like Jeff like asking Kim Spradlin like in the finale right like Kim what is this is the end of your journey right what is it can you can you
[00:05:31] you know give us an analogy about you at the end of your survivor journey. Well that's the thing is that a I think a good amount of these people said that they would only come back if there was something on the scale of a winners or
[00:05:43] this is a good example of a legend season just because for them it's like if I go out and play another season even with people that have only played once or twice I'm pretty much dead meat because my reputation precedes me.
[00:05:54] And the other thing is that obviously they want to keep escalating their appearances not only in fees but also in OK I won this last time you know do I really want to come back for just another regular regular
[00:06:07] season. No you want to come back to see who arguably the ultimate survivor winner is and pretty man I talked about this during second chance that that was such a fun time to be in the survivor community getting this chance to truly you know lend our hand towards
[00:06:53] the end of your survivor journey. Leave it to you know then president of CBS Kelly called to step in with a suggestion of what to do for this milestone 20th anniversary and the impossible was named possible and we got winners at war which
[00:07:09] is unbelievable. I remember I remember people were very pumped up but we didn't know what it was going to be now. Mike I hate to like keep coming on these podcasts and saying like you know I could have been there but yeah they didn't know
[00:07:27] what the theme was going to be. And you know I may have gotten a phone call that was like hey what's your like 40 you feel you feeling 40. Yeah well first off you're like please don't age me too much.
[00:07:43] I think I was it would have been a compliment. I'm looking quite good for my age at this point but I think that to your point from what I have heard behind the scenes and from various interviews that you've done in other ones it does sound like at one
[00:07:57] point it was not always going to be winners at war. Certainly some names that apparently have been brought up as those that were in the mix for casting are some names that we've mentioned before like Spencer like Russell I believe Johnny Fairplay has said it Lex has said
[00:08:15] Candace Cody said on one of your interviews itself Rob that she was apparently set to be on the season. There have been names that have been set to be on serve 40. That's what she told you yeah.
[00:08:26] But there have been other names that apparently were thrown out for consideration like Twila. Yeah well I'll tell you my experience of what I think the statute of limitations of this period in our history.
[00:08:43] So it must have been like so when they filmed it in 2019. Right about May of like May 29 he just said it in the landscape of pop culture. I believe the finale of Game of Thrones was airing by the time.
[00:08:56] Right. Right. And so in so they filmed it in 20 in 2019 early 2019. I think probably sometime in 2018 like I got a phone call that was like.
[00:09:09] So there is a big season that's coming up. Are you like like are you are you just like and I think that my exact it was like I'd love to know more. I'd love to know more please keep me posted.
[00:09:23] And that was really it. Did not hear. No again.
[00:09:28] No more. They did not hear a lot about what was what was up but there were things that were like certainly like a buzz you know during that time. But from what I understand that that and I think that maybe that there was some idea of some different
[00:09:49] theming of maybe like you know like almost like didn't win versus something else and I think that they might have been looking at a list. And then of course the conversation that you mentioned of like well why don't we get the winners together. Yeah.
[00:10:08] And then I think and then everything changed. Right. That's the thing because I also know that it seems like they canvassed a good amount of people from the 30s as well some names that apparently were in consideration were people like Dominic Chris Noble Christian Gabby Chrissy Rick Angelina.
[00:10:28] I also know that something was possibly thrown out as like a rivals theme as well where it's like oh you get Lex and Boston Rob you get Christian and Gabby you get Chris and Dominic taking a page maybe out of the challenges but regardless they settled upon honestly a dream
[00:10:45] for survivor fans which is okay let's see what happens if we pit arguably some of the best players in survivor history against each other and as a result Rob I mean it was a huge season and it came at a huge time I mean it is so wild to think back to the fact that the world around us was absolutely crumbling
[00:11:08] things shutting down the state of the world being in the most uncertainty that any of us have faced in our lifetimes but now we have this like nicely nestled time capsule of back in May of 2019 where regardless of how long we have to stay inside at least we're staying inside every Wednesday in the spring getting to watch survivor 40
[00:11:29] happening it leads to one of the most unconventional reunions ever obviously with Tony's second when being revealed over zoom but it's just such a wild thing to again put yourself back in the shoes of March to May 24 to 23.
[00:11:43] Yeah now the show did start I believe famously February 12 2020 so there were a good first month of the season that wasn't like during COVID but then it ends up being you know one of the few things where you know sports gets shut down like survivor really like took on a added you know relevance in terms of like the pop culture landscape during that time.
[00:12:09] Yeah, absolutely especially again because it's a commemoration as well which again will be interesting looking ahead to 50 which will be another commemoration and I would imagine the show would want to similarly use it as a celebration of survivor.
[00:12:23] The big question will eventually be what is that celebration involved especially now that the all winners theme has kind of been expended I would not imagine winners at war two is necessarily on the whiteboard for season 50.
[00:12:36] I would be very surprised to have any version of winners as a part of the theme, but I do think that potentially like I don't think it's wild to imagine winners being involved and I do think that even just to go back to we talked about survivor game changers recently
[00:12:55] we had two people from second chances make it to game changers we had plenty of people from fans versus favorites make it to heroes versus villains and so sometimes a survivor does like to go back to the recent all star season and bring people into the next one.
[00:13:11] Yeah, very very true though this whole star season is not incredibly recent but hey there might be some faces we at least put on the ballot which will go through as well as the cast and listen.
[00:13:23] I don't know if this is a hot take Rob I might argue that on paper this is the best cast survivor has ever sent best cast I mean I think it's kind of a stacked deck is that I guess maybe the only thing that's probably comparable is heroes versus villains
[00:13:38] I feel like at first blush I would say think heroes versus villains is better but we can take a look at it. All right, let's do it shall we so this first group.
[00:13:48] I went in order of origin seasons these are all of our pre all stars contestants who returned further third fourth or fifth season or six that the count on into the idols on winners at war so of course we have survivors.
[00:14:04] Really big power couple turn a marriage turned a family that visited them out on the island turned a marriage. Oh there we go that's one of those winners of war sound vice that is stood the test of time.
[00:14:15] We have of course Rob and Amber we have Sandra especially with Sandra showing up in Game Changer I think she kind of like broke that barrier of oh would Sandra ever appear on the show again after going to two she now cashed in on her third appearance
[00:14:30] and then she's been winning her third appearance in what like six seasons and then I want to start actually with Ethan. Yeah, because this was one of the most welcome surprises.
[00:14:40] Ethan is somebody and I talked about this on the Africa podcast that I think even around the time of winners at war if you would ask the community like who is the most like likeable contestant in survivor history it would be either
[00:14:52] between his really affable personality in Africa as well as of course his immense story around his multiple cancer diagnosis and beating it multiple times over.
[00:15:03] It was just such an incredible sight to see him back even if it did not go so well for him because again he has gone through so much between survivor appearances. Sure. That was my winner pick also Ethan. Yeah, who's voting out Ethan people ladies beloved.
[00:15:18] True though I think he also did clock that like nobody's going to let me near the end. Yeah, I listen to them near the middle. Exactly.
[00:15:26] I'm here for a good time and hopefully a long time but I don't know if people are going to let me get to the end for $2 million.
[00:15:31] Probably not but it would be going to a good cause but feel like a couple of people we've talked about already and their returning chances for survivor 50.
[00:15:42] Yeah, so Rob and Sandra are both on the ballot obviously Amber was obviously another big surprise because I think the conventional wisdom at the time of winners at war was that like Amber had the thoughts of survivors Rob's thing right.
[00:15:57] I had my time in the spotlight I took home my million I'll sort of like sit back let him make the career out of reality TV and so I think a lot of people were surprised to see Amber on the season unfortunately.
[00:16:12] I really like Ethan she does not last a long time partially because of her connection with Rob. What was it like for you to see your old chaperone tribe me making one of the most, you know, long distance returns in driver history.
[00:16:26] So what was nice was I did get to go you know there was several weeks when that quite several but there were more than a few weeks of, you know, time before COVID really took hold and I got to go to a premiere event
[00:16:42] for survivor when I think actually all four of these people were there that night. Amber, Ethan, Rob and Sandra and it was nice to get to see Rob and I've seen Rob many many times over the years but to see Rob and Amber both there.
[00:16:58] That was very nice and so it was really you know Amber was just like you know a nice like Daffa the cap the amber. She came out of retirement. Yeah, took the curtain call and then was ultimately not a big part of the season.
[00:17:13] So first survivor 50 we kind of discounted Amber and Ethan just because Ethan has definitely said good. Yeah, Ethan said it's very much something he doesn't necessarily need to do again.
[00:17:22] Obviously the edge had a major impact on him and to your point yeah I think Amber showed up for this you know fun concept to possibly play alongside her husband.
[00:17:31] She did arguably live by living on the edge of extinction with him for most of the game but I think she's more than happy to see the reality TV career back to him.
[00:17:40] Yeah, and then I think they're fine. Their life is fine. We don't have to worry about Amber or Ethan for survivor 50. I don't think I've asked you about this at this point. What do you think the chances are of Boston Rob coming back to survivor ever?
[00:17:54] So I think you never bet against it. I think that there certainly is a world where both Rob who just came off of a great season of the dealer No Deal Island.
[00:18:04] Clearly he still has it. Sandra as well just coming off of the traders. It's interesting to have seen both of them go out and we have most recently seen them as like play really good games on other shows.
[00:18:18] And Boston Rob about to keep in the Peacock family by appearing on the trade and then he's gonna be on the traders too.
[00:18:22] So I feel like that both for them and for survivor that they're just like these exes that just keep getting back together over and over again. And you know, like at some point like they're going to one of them is going to show up on survivor again.
[00:18:43] Does it happen here? I think I'd prefer it as you know, we've talked about many times now of I'd love to see this this survivor 50 be second chances and then you know bring back the real heavy hitters for a different season with other three time players.
[00:18:59] If there was one of the two that would probably come back, I'd say probably would be Sandra more you know Rob has been the one that's been more on record to say if I come back it has to be very specific theme.
[00:19:12] I mean also looking at the way winners of war went right like Rob, I think he on paper looks like oh he just tried the same thing got eliminated.
[00:19:19] I do think the more you look into it the more that like this guy had his reputation proceeding him a bit and you know did the best he could.
[00:19:27] Sandra is somebody who low key screws herself out of the game by playing a bit too hard and does this whole thing with Denise. So there's more unfinished business I would say with Sandra than boss.
[00:19:37] Yeah, I think so too. I think that there's probably more runway for Sandra to come back and do well in a return appearance then for Rob.
[00:19:46] I think it would be very it would be almost unimaginable to come up with the scenario where he set up well on a future survivor season. All right, maybe with a bunch of amnesiacs.
[00:19:58] All right, let's go into our next group here. These are all the people who first started on survivor between all stars and heroes versus villains and in fact two of them were on heroes versus villains.
[00:20:11] We of course in poverty and Tyson but I want to talk about two of the bigger surprises first and maybe one of the biggest surprises of them all Rob.
[00:20:21] Danny freaking boat right because survivor Guatemala for the longest time was this bridesmaid of a season one of the rare survivor seasons that did not have anybody representing them with the exception of Stephanie but even her kind of being designated a hero and heroes versus villains
[00:20:37] maybe shows that Guatemala was being a bit ignored.
[00:20:40] But I mean arguably perhaps they were running a bit low from their perspective on possible options for female winners to bring on. We land Danny Bo right the person who purposely beat the radar who sort of said go ahead production I'll give you nothing to not show her hand at all when it came to what she would want to do with
[00:21:00] their return ease and so a lot of people including the Guatemala lover and myself never thought she'd get a chance to come back and we're greatly surprised when she did.
[00:21:08] Yeah. Danny Bo right big surprise for whoever winners who were happy to see her get the shot to come back and play after she'd said I would only come back for an all winner season well survivor was like that.
[00:21:19] Yeah put your money where your mouth is even though you will not get the money. Another very very welcome return from you'll quan.
[00:21:31] I mean you was incredibly beloved on his original season of Cook Islands maybe not as beloved by the audience is Ozzie who gave him the fan favorite prize but you'll part of that huge underdog alliance the main strategic force of the season.
[00:21:46] I think for a while a lot of people thought you'll want to come back partially due to just all the great stuff he was doing in the outside world this guy was being prolific he worked in the frickin White House for a while why the hell would he come back to an island.
[00:21:59] Of course now we sort of know through him talking about it voluntarily gives up a spot at the White House.
[00:22:06] Yes exactly come on but you'll said you'll be back to see me on Survivor and we find out of course on the island at least part of it was due to him spreading awareness for a less as the shirt I'm wearing today shows the the
[00:22:21] alas research fundraiser that you was putting on at the same time but yet again you'll sort of like Danny was one of these people from the teen areas of Survivor that we thought the show had kind of left behind outside of picking and choosing the series and Ozzie's
[00:22:35] and Parvati's of it all. It was awesome to see you will play and I'm still a little sad Rob that he ends up getting voted out right before pre-merge just pretty much by necessity.
[00:22:46] Yeah I think it would have been a little bit more interesting to have seen him get to the post-merge but ultimately yeah it does not work out. I think you will stun.
[00:22:58] I think that you will is pretty much not going to come back for a Survivor 50 but again this was another person where it was nice to see them come back and like a little bit of sort of like Tom Westman coming back in Heroes vs. Villains a little bit of like it's not a long run but it's a little bit of a
[00:23:17] little bit of a reminder of like you know I still got something.
[00:23:21] Yeah I think that you will has also said that he would only come back if it was a charity season because he almost in a different way than what Rob expresses he says that if he goes back on to a returning season now that everyone knows what he's playing for that they would never let him get to the end
[00:23:39] Yeah I think that's almost like what we were talking about with Ethan as well.
[00:23:42] Danny we ended up leaving off the shortlist just because it feels like from the edit she was given and also the fact that it doesn't seem like necessarily the modern survivor game from my perspective was in her bag.
[00:23:54] I don't know if that's necessarily a bag she wants to put her hand back into. I think that Parvati I think would be up for it. I just don't know necessarily what a Parvati 5.0 would look like in terms of. So moving on to Parvati. Oh sorry.
[00:24:12] No speaking about Danny but we can talk about Parvati because yeah I would agree from a gameplay perspective.
[00:24:18] She's on the back foot from pretty much the beginning it's her Robin Ethan against all these new schoolers and then she ends up kind of getting swapped screwed when she swapped into a minority on her blue truck.
[00:24:29] I will say Parvati has undergone some pretty significant life changes in between survivor appearances and that's one of the major reasons why I put her on the ballot besides the fact that if it was a legend season she has said especially in these traders X interviews that she probably wouldn't do survivor again.
[00:24:46] I do think that the idea of a legend season would sort of be the Doctor Strange one exception that would have a Parvati coming back.
[00:24:53] And again it's something I would like to see considering how much Parvati has both come to her own and come out in a manner of speaking to show a happier you know more full side of herself in the past year. Sure.
[00:25:06] Very happy for everything that's going on for Parvati but I'm not sure if life changes necessarily you know show up as game changes where I know that was season 34. Yes. Yeah.
[00:25:20] But like like do you feel like that Parvati played the traders drastically different than she had played survivor in the past. I think so a little bit in that honestly Parvati maybe approached the traders like it was fans versus favorites.
[00:25:35] I was like oh these are the gamers that know what they're doing and then these are all these newbie reality stars that don't.
[00:25:42] And so I do think that certainly there were a couple of times when Parvati got caught a little flat footed and as a result ended up you know unfortunately falling because of that.
[00:25:54] And listen is it's a little bit apples and oranges compared to the traders but depending on what the circumstances of the season might be maybe there is something to Parvati being able to come onto the island with her new title as the Duchess of deception. Maybe.
[00:26:08] Well let's move one step to her right here and talk about somebody that you know I would say probably a lot more intimately than Parvati. So talk to me about the timeline of Tyson here.
[00:26:20] When did you know that Tyson was going to be going out for a fourth season. Mike I opened Twitter and like Redmond Redmond's like what Tyson's gone. What the hell are we going to do on the podcast.
[00:26:34] Yeah how many hours was that before news buddy really stuck it to us so we scrambled and were able to work on some things.
[00:26:43] But Tyson I just feel like is interesting because I feel like that you could bring Tyson back and maybe this is a little bit of favoritism on my part.
[00:26:54] But I think you could bring Tyson back many many times and Tyson is going to you know give you a lot. I mean look at what he did.
[00:27:06] And then we talked about this with like Michaela and Desi but like when Tyson went back for the challenge USA and he had you know some in very interesting gameplay and strategy about how he wanted to set things up there.
[00:27:23] And so I think if you put him in like a different set of circumstances like I think that he may like he's always going to try to figure out like he did in blood versus water. OK what's the setup here that works best for me.
[00:27:37] And I think that if you brought it back for another season with returning players like I think he's going to give you something interesting.
[00:27:45] Yeah I mean he's good TV no matter what that's also one reason why we put him on the ballot is again I could definitely see him making the category of a legend season. And he's willing to adapt. Yeah.
[00:27:58] To try to make it work with other players and he's not going to be sort of like petulant about like no this is exactly how I'm going to play.
[00:28:06] Not to mention if we're like lumping him together with Parvati Rob and Sandra they serve like four time plus returning players Tyson is the one that is the most connected to the new era as well of course with the podcast that he's hosting now where he's become much more
[00:28:19] intimately familiar with the new era than any one of these other players and he's also made connections with it. Would you rather Rob see Tyson on a fifth survivor season or put him on another reality show in general.
[00:28:32] I think I'd rather see Tyson on another like a like a trader. I think he would be very very fun there but I feel like that in winners at war not to relitigate this too much.
[00:28:42] I think that he ends up getting caught up a little bit more like oh Rob Boston Rob's on the other side. Yeah. So we can't let Tyson and Rob get back to get connected.
[00:28:51] So you know if he doesn't have like a Boston Rob like that people are worried about him working with I think there might be a little bit more of a interest in working with Tyson. All right.
[00:29:05] Well, let's talk about our next group here so that represented does Tyson is Tyson dying to play survivor for a fifth time. I like I suspect not. Yeah. I mean he said that he's like pretty much retired again.
[00:29:17] I think if he was talked into a legend season I think it could happen but otherwise I don't think he's coming. Yeah. I think he's very fine with where he is right now.
[00:29:25] I think that if they you know throw a bag at him I think he would do it but you know he's not like the challenge is all about throwing back. He's very experienced at it. Yeah.
[00:29:37] So what's interesting Rob is that this season and look some of the concert nation that people have about winners of war is the boot list.
[00:29:44] And for what it's worth you know we talk about casting and how recency bias is baked into it and we can certainly talk about it with this cast but of the 20 cast members eight debuted on survivor prior to the halfway point between one and 40 which is pretty good I would say.
[00:30:01] Yeah. So. Do you think that they will be looking at that kind of symmetry in season 50.
[00:30:08] I would not be surprised it depends on again if they want to celebrate the show what that means does that mean bringing people on from those early seasons or whatever theme might satisfy them. I could certainly see it.
[00:30:22] I don't know if it would be half and half unless that's a theme they're going for. If they're going for like old school versus new school and even then are you counting old school as one through 40. Are you counting old school as one through 20.
[00:30:33] Not entirely sure but I did think it was interesting that again after looking at all these returning cast we've talked out just how much it's weighted primarily in like the last two three four seasons. They were able to get nearly half the cast from the first 20 seasons here.
[00:30:48] Yeah. Pretty good.
[00:30:49] I mean those are like the iconic names of like if you're going to like I think part of the idea with these big anniversary seasons I think is that you end up like like bringing is like well I haven't watched the show in 10 years but though this person is back like OK now I'm going to watch and maybe you get some people like reinvigorated that they like I remember why I like survivor.
[00:31:14] Yeah. And just in time for a couple of seasons to show up on Netflix and to have any excuse in the world to just binge watch the show that you missed out on a couple years of. Sure.
[00:31:23] All right well let's move into the 20s and these are all of our players is the biggest group of this entire cast Rob all the players that debuted during the 20s which were in and of itself an odd time in survivor we had of course the dark ages of like the first four seasons someone even throw
[00:31:41] a mowing in there but then you have this sort of like Renaissance period in the latter part of the 20s with blood versus water Kaga Yon and San Juan del soar and so through that we have Sophie Kim Denise so Kim so Kim unfortunately not though she did show up again on that game
[00:32:00] I'm just kidding.
[00:32:01] I'm not sure what that is but I haven't watched the show in 10 years consideration list surprisingly so so if Kim and then we have these two inextricable pairs in Tony and Sarah and Natalie and Jeremy thank you so let's start with our top three here because yeah I do think someone like Sophie for instance is very
[00:32:19] interesting Wow Mike did you realize that once upon a time three women one survivor in a row my god the world was so different back in their early 20s
[00:32:29] and for many different reasons but these three I mean Sophie in particular I was really happy to see back yes this was yet another surprising choice me because again we talked about this during the South Pacific podcast that the reception behind South Pacific at the time was oh my god I can't believe coach lost or oh my god I can't believe Ozzy got voted out
[00:32:48] and was less though about Sophie as the winner and so again maybe it was due to the fact that production was looking a bit more into you know the less considered winners to fill out their female cast but considering what Sophie was able to bring to winners of work to the point that we put her on the ballot for a third time because she impressed so much this season.
[00:33:09] Well I think that Sophie is somebody who I feel like that for survivor 50 I would give her a lot of consideration she could be one of these people that I think would add a lot to a survivor 50 where I feel like that she played survivor in one in South Pacific at 21 years old but then I feel like that we got a more a different outspoken version of Sophie who was more of a fierce challenge.
[00:33:39] And I think just was like more and that's coming from the person who did beat Ozzy the last me to challenge it South Pacific. Yes I think more of is like openly strategic about how she played and I think a lot of people felt like that you know if Tony didn't get Sophie out this was going to be Sophie's game to lose and I feel like that Sophie would be fascinating to me to play again I was very happy for Sophie to get the chance to come back.
[00:34:07] You know so many of these people especially from the 20s now Rob as a podcast has started I got the chance to interact with so many of these people in a different way then I got to interact with like you know we're talking about Rob and Amber and even like I played survivor on seasons with them like these were the people like I came to know from watching them and talking about their games on the podcast.
[00:34:30] Yeah and I think Sophie is someone who really had her stock level rise through appearing on the podcast I keep saying this but she was the one who immediately clocked that the three amigos move while big and flash he was maybe a bit overrated. Good memory Mike.
[00:34:45] I'm going to talk about the people who initially said like oh Tony someone to watch out for back during a time in Kaga I am and we're like oh this guy's so silly he's doing too much he can never win and so yeah I would really like to see Sophie back for time number three and I think as well.
[00:35:01] We talk all the time on this season about people kind of coming on with like secondary goals since they've already won before obviously $2 million would be nice but are there other things you're looking to do when reappearing on the show and I think for Sophie and we'll talk about it with Michelle as well I think it was a bit of like
[00:35:15] I want to prove to fans that I deserved my win the first time around and much like we talked about with Sandra and game changers Rob I feel like it was a similar impression with Sophie of okay she did not replicate her success from a placement perspective but she was more actively strategic than I think the hand that was dealt to her in South Pacific that
[00:35:35] I think she impressed a lot of people with her second time out. Yeah it was super impressive would love to see some more.
[00:35:41] So Kim and again not the boot of survivor worlds apart I mean Kim was a shoe in for this if she wanted to do this I mean this was one of the most dominant winners of all time if not one of the most dominant women of all time still holds and ties a record for most
[00:35:58] immunity challenges one by a woman absolutely ran her season from top to bottom. She was a natural to come in here that being said between your aforementioned comment that Jeff made to her at that final challenge as well as a couple of interviews she's done with you afterwards she is retired from the game.
[00:36:17] She's retired from survivor and I'm so happy for Kim to have success after survivor with what she's done on HGTV. I think that she is somebody who I think has been properly celebrated by the survivor community.
[00:36:34] I was glad she got a chance to come back and play. I kind of needed her for this season I think that this is probably the only scenario where it made sense for her to return and I think she was probably seen as somebody who played like a near perfect survivor game in one
[00:36:51] world and it didn't go perfectly for her in winners at war and I think that's that's okay we love Kim.
[00:36:58] I mean that wasn't that like her final words to Jeff like it's okay not being perfect. Well that was the answer to the question that Jeff had asked her and I thought it was a good one and you know I will always be a big Kim
[00:37:10] Spradlin fan but I can say that lovingly like I don't think that we even if she was like I'm open to it. I feel like what is there left to do for Kim. Yeah I mean listen if people want to watch Kim Spradlin on your TV just get HGTV as part of your cable package
[00:37:25] and you should be good. Sure. Denise I was really excited to see Denise of course Philippines was one of my favorite seasons especially in the midst of the seasons that surround it and Denise again had this inexplicable underdog run where
[00:37:38] she goes to every single tribal council in her season and ends up taking home the win. She was also the oldest woman to ever win survivor and so it was really exciting to see her back on here.
[00:37:50] She does end up making the finale but I mean one of the reasons why she does get left off in my opinion Rob is that it does feel like now Ben will have the much bigger story of him sort of bowing out
[00:38:00] and being happy with the way that things went. It did feel like Denise had shades of that the way she went out as well. Indoor let go. Mike Blue ends up with a tattoo okay. So there was a lasting impact.
[00:38:12] Yeah very much so quite literally on my skin but would you want to see Denise back for a second? No I think we're good here. I think we're good and you know I hold a special place in my heart for Denise my only winner pick ever in the history of Rob is a podcast
[00:38:27] and Denise was like you know a did a really great job in survivor Philippines. She has like the one great moment with the double idol play in taking out the queen she's the queen killer here and I think Denise would tell you herself I think she is very good.
[00:38:51] Yes I think so as well. Let's talk about one of our two pairs here not only one of the most iconic pairs in the late 20s but in survivor history considering how many times they've not only played together but become a part of each other stories culminating and then
[00:39:39] who was on it was I know is Akiva and Ali and Liana and myself it was. Yeah that was the four and Tony went on draft it. Yes Akiva I think what was on tape saying like I would rather pick any of the other winners who have not been put on the season over Tony.
[00:39:57] Yeah and unimaginable Akiva with like a very bad take that's on the record. Can you believe it. It's it's it absolutely flummox me in the moment but much like we were flummoxed by Tony's gameplay here because I do think again we talked about this during game changers it was kind of a necessary
[00:40:17] part of his two season winning arc where he just flames out so spectacularly in game changers and he realized is like OK if I'm a band I can't just play the same hits every single time you know I got to mix in some new music.
[00:40:32] And so Tony comes in and he's a little more understated he's purposely walking at a lower posture than everybody else he's building ladders just making everybody laugh so that once he ends up deciding to strike he has all the tools quite literally in his toolbox even though he's not a construction worker to make it happen.
[00:40:49] He's like John Snow he needed to die so that he could come back. Yeah and this was Sarah his Daenerys there. Yeah. Look that is a conversation for different which game of Thrones character is Sarah. All right we'll save that for summer of survivor.
[00:41:04] So yes I mean we know scripted TV Robin's website. com slash scripted make sure you subscribe.
[00:41:10] Sarah was really interesting as well because similarly I didn't think she would do well at all because look at what just happened in game changers which yes was three years ago at that point but was still a very memorable game.
[00:41:24] Sarah was somebody who had this entire strategy of like I'm going to connect with you socially. We're going to get on the same page and I'm going to rip out that page and put it in my own book. That's going to be a best selling winner.
[00:41:36] And so it got to a point where the jury ends up kind of begrudgingly giving Sarah the win because her strategy was pretty pretty masterful but they didn't feel the best about it.
[00:41:46] And so I thought OK Sarah's game is clocked at this point even if she starts bonding with people they're going to know it's only so that she can use that to betray them later on.
[00:41:55] But no she puts forward a pretty damn good game and if Tony ends up going out in fire making there's a at least a pretty damn good shot that she ends up being our two time winner. She did a really good job here.
[00:42:07] I feel like that maybe Winners at War was a better showcase of her social game than game changers ultimately was. I feel like that we saw like a little bit more of her in confessional. Yeah. And we saw like the fashion show and the hair parlor and everything.
[00:42:21] But I think you walked away from game changers like why do people keep trusting Sarah like the trusting Sarah with everything stop telling Sarah things. Survivor winners at war. I think you understood a little bit more about why like what how she was able to do that.
[00:42:37] That being said. I feel like Tony and Sarah like I kind of felt like the story is over. It was a beautiful ending to their relationship on screen in the fire making challenge. Very emotional in terms of how it all played out. But I don't know.
[00:42:59] Like I feel I feel like I'm good here. I don't disagree.
[00:43:04] We did put Tony on the ballot because I do think again legends would be that one scenario that he would play in and he did say in the literal hours following his win on winners of war that he would come back for something like Survivor 50.
[00:43:17] So I think that he could though it doesn't it feels like by law almost that he has to be on the season with Sarah and we've talked about before how I think Sarah would probably be better.
[00:43:27] I think she's one to say no to Survivor for a fourth time out. She's had a couple of other bites of the apple when it came to reality TV and I think she's fine at the moment. Yeah. For bites of the turkey leg if you will.
[00:43:40] I think we're good here. Well, let's talk about maybe another pair that has shown up on our screens in a different way in the form of Natalie and Jeremy. So these two thickest thieves obviously in San Juan del Sore. He goes down. She goes on to win.
[00:43:56] Jeremy comes back and takes it home for San Juan del Sore in second chance. Then they're back together on winners of war for like a minute before Natalie is voted out because they're so close though she will go on and place in second here.
[00:44:12] What were your thoughts about seeing both Natalie and Jeremy back together on a season for the first time? Yeah. I think they're both in San Juan del Sore. Super excited to see them both.
[00:44:22] I kind of had forgotten about the relationship because unlike Tony and Sarah, like they both or Jeremy, his more iconic season comes without Natalie and comes in second chance.
[00:44:33] I easily could have forgotten about the relationship that they formed in San Juan del Sore, but they are great friends and remain close to this day.
[00:44:48] So to have them on the same starting tribe, maybe like a little bit of a misfire from the producers in terms of putting them as like, OK, you're inviting one of them to get targeted by starting them off on the same tribe.
[00:45:00] Yeah. That's the issue for me was it felt like the easy fix would have been either swap Sarah and Natalie or Tony and Jeremy because both of these pairs will start on the same starting tribe.
[00:45:11] And so especially when you split up the marriage or any other pairs you might try to find, you know, separating Rob and Tyson as well, you would think that these two pairs and especially Tony and Sarah who again had such a complicated yet obviously tied together bond
[00:45:29] through two previous seasons, separating them to start what had probably been the most optimal thing to do. Yeah. I think that maybe the producers don't realize like how close maybe you don't look at Tony and Sarah has.
[00:45:40] Oh, that's their because Tony and Sarah and survivor Kageon on like a negative. And then we never see them together in survivor game changer. So maybe there's some thought of like, OK, well, this is actually something that's bad for Tony to start him on that.
[00:45:56] Sarah is going to be gunning for him. So maybe they ended up doing it that way. But for whatever reason, it ends up going sour for Natalie, who then goes on her own journey and ends up coming back.
[00:46:08] And so Natalie that do we know does Natalie want the place to buy her again first? She she absolutely. Interesting. At least in the moment after winners of war, she was very much like, listen, you knock on the door and I already have a bad pack.
[00:46:24] I think for her, it was very much like she said she had said if she had won the season, which she came close to doing, then she'd be done. Because then it's very much like we thought Sandra would be with just like where do you go from here?
[00:46:35] But for her, it's now kind of given her an itch back of well, I did lose. I want to go back and prove that I can win. She is fiercely competitive because of that. So we did put her on the short list for that reason.
[00:46:47] Also again, there's a little bit of that unfinished business there. So if we go back to the Tyson question, I think it's more likely and I would probably like to see Natalie on another reality show over. Yeah, I remember for the third time.
[00:47:00] Yeah. Look, if Natalie wants to play survivor again, then I'm never going to turn it down.
[00:47:05] But I feel like I could also like walk away and that Natalie's story, I feel like to make it back from going to the edge to making it to a final tribal council. To me, I feel like that that was a complete journey for me.
[00:47:25] But if she wants to do it, we'd be blessed to have Natalie come back. Now, on the other end, we do see someone like Jeremy who is doing other reality shows and that he's going to be appearing on the Traders.
[00:47:36] And he has expressed that he would not like to come back. Oh, interesting. Yeah. He has at least said in interviews. He would not like to. But what do you mean?
[00:47:47] That's the question is that like if push comes to shove and especially if it's a legend season, I could see him getting the nudge. He basically has said that like it takes a lot of time away from his family. Yeah.
[00:47:58] And it's not necessarily something that he said that he had a lot of hunger and a lot of energy for survivor from his first time to his second time. But even his second time to his third time, it felt like that passion was was waning on.
[00:48:11] Obviously, Jeremy had his toughest season yet where he's just consistently the target pretty much from the merge until he's voted out.
[00:48:18] So maybe if we ask him under the right circumstances, he would want to come back, but especially given the fact that now he is appearing on other shows that allow him less time away from Val and the kids. I could see him softly retiring from the show.
[00:48:31] See, I was going to say that I think I have a little bit more interest in Jeremy playing again for the fourth time. First, I just think that there would be like a reverence for Jeremy to come back and play.
[00:48:43] We hear him constantly brought up on the show as somebody that people want to play like. And it didn't go great for him on winners at war.
[00:48:53] But I really feel like that he would be rather celebrated by like especially like if he was there with a lot of these people that played in the forties.
[00:49:02] Like I really think that they would look up to Jeremy and want to play with him as like as you talked about like that. His favorite player. Yeah, I love Jeremy because he's like a loyal family guy who has not looked at as a very scheming player.
[00:49:19] And so like I think it would be interesting to see Jeremy come back. But I did not know I knew how he did not enjoy his time on winners at war.
[00:49:29] And so I thought that he might be a little bit more interested as like a palette cleanser of like, is this is this the one I want to go out on?
[00:49:36] Like the one where people just straight up, you know, you know, swore to me up and down and then betrayed me. Yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting to see if the traders, which will be the first reality show he's done since winners at war.
[00:49:50] Will that like reignite a passion in him? You know, will that reignite a competitive drive for him to say, you know what, I can't go back there and give it one more try. Or is he going to say, oh no, this is the much better gig.
[00:50:01] I bet he's beloved by the traders viewers. Oh, I'm sure he is going to be like the new audience that doesn't know survivor that just meets Jeremy for the first time. Like I think that he's going to be very well received.
[00:50:14] Oh, I'm going to put out a bold prediction right here right now. I guess like several months ahead of time. I think Jeremy is going to be the C.T. of the Trader Season 3. I can see that.
[00:50:23] The guy that's very good in challenges, like very well regarded amongst the people within the castle. And then again, people who are coming in for the Housewives or the other, the Zac Efron's brother and are like, oh, who's this guy Jeremy? He seems like a solid dude.
[00:50:37] And so we kind of have a Jeremy Renaissance in terms of popularity. And then we'll get like the confessionals about like all this nonsense happening in the guise. These guys are so dumb. There we go. There we go. He's like, why are you all so happy?
[00:50:51] We voted out of faithful. Yeah. All right. So our final group here last but not least. So Sarah technically is part of this group and actually Jeremy is as well because from Cambodia onwards, we are going to get what?
[00:51:12] Seven out of the last eight or nine seasons in the 30s represented through winners of war where we have Michelle, Adam, Ben, Wendell and Nick. I would not say that any of these really surprised me.
[00:51:27] Maybe Adam just because like you look at him and Nick and like, OK, one of these should be filled by the young excitable super fan and Nick had the more recent win.
[00:51:37] And I would say probably was the more like, at least from an perspective, the more active game player. But I was especially given how much he brought to this season from a character perspective and especially him playing the Florida Lee. Adam brought so much to winners at war.
[00:51:52] Yes. So we're we're going to start with Adam or you want to start with Michelle? Let's let's check her up. Let's kick over that stack. Let's do it. You think we're kicking it? OK, Mike. So yeah, Michelle comes back.
[00:52:04] I'm so happy for Michelle that she got the opportunity to come back and be celebrated. And while I know Corong is her winning season, I feel like that survivor winners at war, I think is like Michelle's like one of the few people that come away from this season.
[00:52:19] I think enhancing their legacy. Well, yeah, I mean, her secondary goal as she talks about in that really cool scene with Boston Robb when they're swinging the ring is like them talking about the meta of fan reception behind wins and Boston Robb's like,
[00:52:31] don't let the haters get you down. Hey, exactly. And so that's all I need to say is hey, and she knows exactly what that means. You know what that means. And so Michelle, yeah, it does go on.
[00:52:43] And I think it's also a matter of like some people thought that it was lightning striking when Michelle ends up winning due to these circumstances in Corong. But you can't really have lightning strike twice.
[00:52:54] And the fact that Michelle made it to her second final, she has yet to be voted out in her survivor career. Yeah, I think had a lot of people admiring her game more. She's got a great overall survivor package. She's tough.
[00:53:07] She's feisty, but she's not overly physical where you look at her like, oh, we got to get Michelle out because she's going to win a challenge. But she could rattle off an immunity here or there.
[00:53:17] But then at the same time also look kind of hapless in a challenge. So she doesn't really and it's not. I don't think it's intentional, but she doesn't really build up that kind of like threat level.
[00:53:28] And I think that she is a smart player, but she's not looked at as overly strategic. I don't think that anybody says, oh, we got to get Michelle out. She's a big schemer. She's always up to something.
[00:53:40] But she's also like likely to be involved with a plan and you know, can come up with a few on her own. And then she's just got like the really great Riz in social game where people like her. Yeah, they like being around her.
[00:53:57] And so Michelle has just like a lot of things going for her that I think that like the sum of the parts is like is greater than if you just looked at them in terms of like, OK, you know, if you were going to like give her her survivor D and D not B and B like levels.
[00:54:18] And so Michelle, I was happy for her. She's done made a career out of being on the challenge.
[00:54:24] That's the thing is I think that out of anybody here, she is really the one that is probably most personifying that like mid aughts Boston Rob where she has just been appearing on so much.
[00:54:35] I mean, mainly on one show, perhaps unlike Rob where she has appeared on, I think now four or five seasons of the challenge, including the upcoming season.
[00:54:43] And it almost feels like I talked about this with Kirsten that I feel like the challenge is almost the show that feels like Michelle is made for between like the competitive aspects.
[00:54:53] The strategy that is now involved where she really runs the game in this most recent season that just aired. And then also like a lot of mess. Michelle is very, very messy on the challenge, entertainingly.
[00:55:05] So that being said, we also did put her on the ballot because a I think there is something interesting to Michelle who honestly doesn't hasn't had in her survivor seasons.
[00:55:15] A lot of time where she's like specifically in power just had a season where she was pretty much in control from beginning to end.
[00:55:21] And there is something to what could she bring to survivor now because of that and B, because she has said that despite her becoming kind of a challenge mainstay. She is someone that would easily go back and play another season of survivor given the chance. Yeah.
[00:55:36] So would love to see it. I personally, I kind of feel like her story. There's not much more for me to see from Michelle. But if she wants to come back, I mean, like we'd be lucky to live in that scenario.
[00:55:49] So let's talk about Adam here because yes, I mean, Adam is somebody who I wouldn't say this would necessarily be his reason for coming back.
[00:55:57] But I think there was a lot of talk at the time about how Adam only won because he revealed the story about his mom, which was definitely not the case. And I imagine Adam had a bit to prove. Adam also kind of filled this ridiculous.
[00:56:09] Yeah, exactly. Adam also had this with that role to fill as, you know, the big super fan that gets to gawk at the fact that he is playing alongside these legendary players. Yeah.
[00:56:20] He gets to start some smoke with Ben who is used to starting smoke considering he won the fireman challenge back in the original season. And he goes out in a pretty glorious fashion. Unfortunately, Ali and I talked about this on the millennium vs. Gen X podcast.
[00:56:34] I do believe that Adam's, you know, recruitment. So I was surprised. Mike, can I push back on that? I was surprised that you took such a bold you'll get the her suit.
[00:56:46] I was surprised you took such a strong stand on that he is persona non grata with survivor because of the whole. I think that the survivor can hold these two things in their hands of like, hey, we didn't like that you did that.
[00:57:01] But like if it was the right theme for our season, I think we could look past that. Like I think that they got on the phone with Adam.
[00:57:09] Like I feel like that if there was a reason why they wanted him, I don't think that that would be disqualifying of if they had like the perfect theme to bring Adam back. I think that they could like get around the whole casting.
[00:57:24] Yeah, I personally think that the issue is more like. I just feel like that the story is done with Adam as far as his survivor journey.
[00:57:36] And it would be fun to see Adam on anything, but I just don't know if they're looking for him more so than he's disqualified.
[00:57:44] I would agree with that as well, that you were talking about if there was the right theme to call on and back and part of me is thinking what would that theme be?
[00:57:52] You know, with no offense to him, I wouldn't necessarily qualify him as a quote unquote legend. If they want to do what they did Gen Z versus millennials exactly just bring back the entire Vanua tribe and pick them up against a bunch of Gen Zers.
[00:58:05] But I do think that Adam is somebody who speaks so eloquently and generally Gen Z versus millennials. Mike, especially returning players would be like a great season. I mean, maybe they'll be the seed of the theme for Survivor 50. It's like it's a battle of the generations quite literally.
[00:58:21] They played Survivor in their 20s now they're in their 30s. But what do they have what it takes against the new crop of Survivor players? Exactly. I do think that Adam, I always loved like the reverence he has for the game,
[00:58:36] especially having been like a two time player and seeing it from that perspective. Well, I mean, I love like I'd love for him to show up on like Australian Survivor.
[00:58:44] I know that we're not necessarily doing US versus AU, but I feel like he could be a pretty slam dunk casting choice there. Yeah.
[00:58:51] I hope I'm not speaking too much out of school here, but I did have the chance to in early maybe maybe it was the early 2019.
[00:59:03] And I had the chance to talk with Adam Klein about that they were having the Survivor 40 and they started to think about having the winners back. And he was going to he was going to talk to them.
[00:59:16] And he said, and he said to me, and I'll never forget this. He said to me. If I don't get invited for all winners, Survivor, I will cry myself to sleep every night for the rest of my life.
[00:59:31] Oh, my God. And I was so happy that he made it. Yes. For many reasons for the sake of his own sanity and I mean, Kleenex is feeling bad because that would have just like people could retire on that sort of money that Adam was guaranteeing.
[00:59:45] But I'm glad for the sake of his own mental well-being that he ends up being on this season. Yes. OK. So very happy for Adam.
[00:59:53] I don't think we're going to see a month's Survivor 50 just because I'm not sure necessarily what what the theme is where we bring back Adam.
[01:00:01] Let's talk about Ben here, his rival on Survivor 40 because Ben, I mean, it's interesting because like I think if you ask a certain subset of the fan base, they would say it was a controversial casting choice given how everything went down and heroes healers hustlers that led to his win.
[01:00:17] However, I think the way that his win was regarded by the larger community and obviously him highlighting PTSD and the Marines. It did make sense. And also, again, they're trying to pull some recent winners that to your point.
[01:00:28] They'd be like, oh, I remember this guy and Ben is so distinctly different, I think in an archetype from everyone around him. I think Survivor really liked Ben, especially Ben 1.0. He was he was on Jeff's Mount Rushmore of Players back in like 2020.
[01:00:42] Yeah. I think they were really happy with him. I think they really liked that story of heroes versus healers versus hustlers. I was again in the building on this HHH finale.
[01:00:52] I remember that they they were just I think that they felt like Ben was going to be like a big star.
[01:01:00] I think that he probably from the viewer's perspective and again, we're in a little bit of a bubble, but to the general viewers, like I think that the idea of him as being a former Marine who's overcoming PTSD.
[01:01:13] I think that they felt like, OK, this is like such a homerun story. Mark Burnett was there in the building. He very excited about that that they brought.
[01:01:22] They brought his friends that were from part like this is like almost like something that they never do for anybody else, especially when the finale of the reunion was 20 minutes long. They reunited him with other Marines.
[01:01:34] Like I think they felt like, OK, this is a big this is a big story that we're doing here with Ben. So I think that they wanted to I think they thought they were going to keep riding that Ben wave and Ben.
[01:01:47] I know he is not a beloved, but I will say that in person he's very gregarious. I think that he's very easy to get along with.
[01:01:59] I think in many situations, although that from what people have said about playing with him or playing with him on the challenge that there is.
[01:02:07] I mean, I think there is like a dark side of Ben which does come out and he is dealing with a lot of demons that have been well chronicled. So I think that this is not the one that I would second guess up and down.
[01:02:23] Yeah, I think also the fact that Ben finds so many idols in the season, which is like nicely ringing on productions radar as well of, hey, we're going to throw a bunch of stuff into this game. Fire tokens and advantages.
[01:02:36] We want to cast people that know how to play ball with that. And Ben certainly does shows that initiative.
[01:02:42] All that being said, obviously the way that Ben goes out, he was very expressive about his secondary goal, which is like I had to be an army of one for lack of a better term and heroes, healers, hustlers. I want to try to make friends this season.
[01:02:56] And so that sort of factors into him deciding to leave the game basically at Final Five where it's discovered like, hey, you can leave the game now or you can get dragged to the final three and get torn apart by the jury. And Ben said, I'm good.
[01:03:10] And I feel like that's maybe what he would be saying to survive. I was surprised he even did the challenge to be honest. Yeah, I agree.
[01:03:17] I don't know if it maybe it was a matter of like, maybe he was asking around and Sarah said she would and he's like, OK, I've got a friend there. At least he does it another time over with Sarah.
[01:03:24] So maybe Ben is the new Tony when it comes to Sarah shows. Yeah, or maybe Sarah called him like, come on, let's go. And again, it's that Riz. It's that inexplicable, Lesina charm. But yeah, I think that I don't know.
[01:03:35] I've engaged if Ben would want to come back. It just it just feels like the way it's a non-starter. I don't think I don't think that they're looking for Ben and I don't think he's necessarily, you know, clamoring for it.
[01:03:48] Well, let's go from, I guess, someone that would have been a goat in the final three of this season to someone who's going to play the goat. So Wendell, this makes sense.
[01:03:56] I mean, listen to also be the no brainer Wendell, of course, incredibly popular from ghost Island and also part of, you know, one of the most climactic finishes in survivor history with the tide vote, but also seen as one of the biggest power players of the season.
[01:04:11] You needed Wendell. I mean, that would have been very hard to do this season without him coming off of ghost Island at the time that they were casting this. Very one of the most popular recent winners that they had.
[01:04:23] And so I think that he was just a fan favorite also. So easy pick to bring back Wendell for the winner for the winners at war. Wendell, I think you could imagine why he would want to come back for a third season.
[01:04:42] He's told me in as recent as exiting reviews for the goat that like he would always come back to survivor, which I will admit raised my eyebrows a bit just because it's not that I don't think his time didn't go well in winners of war.
[01:04:54] But the edit definitely made it seem like it's the world where Wendell's like, I'm done here. But I think that I could also imagine where Wendell imagines that the world that edited him a certain way in season 40 is not necessarily the same editing team that would do season 50.
[01:05:14] Not to mention he is someone that through Bryce and Bryce and when presents has done all these events where they are not only interacting with the new era.
[01:05:21] They do weekly podcasts here on RH AP, but also again networking a lot with all of these new era contestants that he were to play on 50 would be assumingly facing off against. Yeah. So I think that Wendell would like to come back.
[01:05:35] I'm not necessarily sure like what the theming would be to bring back a winner that necessarily for season 50. But look, maybe maybe it's maybe its legends down the road. But good to know that Wendell wants to come back. All right. Well, let's finish things off here with Nick.
[01:05:56] So Nick again him and Adam kind of fill at least the same bucket on the surface of like young super fan with a heartwarming underdog story. I do think that Nick gets brought on for a number of reasons.
[01:06:08] A. He is recent B. He comes from a very popular season in the form of David versus Goliath. Yes. And I but I just feel like that the season was popular.
[01:06:20] But I feel like that Nick as the avatar of the Davids in David versus Goliath like made so much sense. I really feel like that survivor didn't know what to do with Nick outside of that framework of oh, this is the face of the Davids.
[01:06:38] They made him the guy that was skulking in the background in Winners of War. That's your answer. They didn't know what to do with him. And I really I just wonder, Mike, do we have a list of the snubs of the winners at peace?
[01:06:48] Yes. So I believe you know the list of survivor winners. Of course, we have I'll go in order here. We have of course Richard Hatch. That's a whole different conversation of what's he in the mix?
[01:07:01] Did they want him? Right. Tina, I believe the story was that she was given consideration briefly. Specifically, can we talk about the men? Oh, yeah, sure. So we have Chris Doherty and Tom Westman and Tom. I don't think both of them were even considered at that point.
[01:07:18] We have Earl who was in heavy consideration and ends up dropping out due to the premature birth of his child. Let me just ask you, Mike, that who do you think is the 10th guy in on this list? Is it Adam? I think Adam Bennernic.
[01:07:32] I think it's Adam or Nick. Just because again, I think both of them are so similar that it's like, OK, one of you is going to be on and then one of you is going to be the alternate.
[01:07:40] Yeah, I do wonder if it ends up being sort of like a situation where we've talked about like in some of these other seasons where this person was the alternate for this person. Cochran not coming back, paints them into a box a little bit.
[01:07:51] Right. Cochran, of course, you know, has cemented even to this day that he was done after Karamo and he sees no other reason to come back. I know he was contacted for winners at war.
[01:08:03] So yeah, I would imagine that once they lost him at some point, they're like, OK, well, we need that perspective brought in through another player. Right.
[01:08:11] So suffice it to say also Nick is, you know, very much down the road in his political career that I do not think he won a place. Survivor again, not to mention that, listen, he has a pretty respectable showing.
[01:08:22] He ends up finishing in like seventh or eighth place. But to your point, I don't think he was a huge fan of the way he was personified that season. Probably not. But who would you pick?
[01:08:33] So if you take Cochran off the board or all or all they wanted or all they couldn't do it like who do you plug in instead of Nick? Oh, I mean, the big answer is Todd Hertzog. But obviously that I mean and Todd Express, right.
[01:08:43] I think he said on his talking with Tiber that like he was given the availability call and then just he almost it was almost the same case with you where they're like, OK, would you want to do this? And he's like, OK, yeah, tell me more.
[01:08:54] And then he was just kind of left on red. But I think Todd is someone you could easily slot in here.
[01:08:59] I mean, he's a shoe in for the short list from us from China because he has the story on top of being a still a devoted fan of the show. I think he was an easy person to slide in here.
[01:09:08] Yeah. Also, I think that Chris Underwood would have been very interesting, especially when you have the edge. Well, so Chris Underwood, yeah, the story was that he actually was given a call, but I believe it was like the 12 hours before his honeymoon.
[01:09:22] And he's like, I've got too much happening at this moment. I don't think I've been the right headspace to do it. And look, he does eventually return with a plumb onto another show.
[01:09:31] But yeah, it would have been interesting to put him on considering that all these people would have also just seen the finale, the edge of extinction as well.
[01:09:38] So on paper, you think, OK, is there a little bit of that Russell Hans effect of, oh, he's sort of a bigger unknown so we won't vote for him.
[01:09:45] Chris Underwood would have when I've gotten targeted very early because he has no pregame relationships and they know that he can make his way back from the edge. Yeah. So. Interesting.
[01:09:56] Were there any winners, Rob, that you were unhappy with in the moment to not see on winners at war for one reason or another? I mean, I think that we've talked about. I'm trying to think if there's anybody else.
[01:10:06] I would say that, you know, again, as much as I understand the reasons why Ben was on, I kind of wish Mike Holloway was on. Mike would have loved to have gotten another shot.
[01:10:17] I feel like that you could have, especially considering the way it turned out with Ben. Like I think that you does feel like that. OK, Ben came along and was the new Mike Holloway. Yeah, I think so.
[01:10:28] But otherwise, again, that's why I say, you know, that it was a pretty top tier cast because yes, we all want, you know, to see what new people are going to see. And Natalie White would do on a second time out what Fabio would bring.
[01:10:39] But I think from a production perspective, there's there was just a slim to not chance they were going to bring those people back.
[01:10:44] But as always, Mike, you know, the people from the recent seasons who maybe don't ultimately stand the test of time like Nick and like Ben, like you say, like, OK, well, they they get in there just for the sake of that.
[01:10:56] OK, well, when they're cast in the show, they're fresh on the mind. And so I do think that these next couple of seasons of Survivor could weigh very heavily into Survivor 50. Well, on that note, Rob, I know that you had some thunder booming in the background.
[01:11:11] You can hear that. Oh my God. A torrential. I was worried my internet was going to crap out. Well, it only makes sense that we turn to the season that has a man drowning on it in its logo.
[01:11:23] The new era is. Yes, I cannot believe after all these podcasts we have gotten here, but we are officially arriving at Survivor 41 where the show comes back with a completely new look. Lots of new twists and a brand new cast to talk about and look ahead.
[01:11:41] This is going to be really interesting, Rob, because for a while, even before this entire experiment started, there was so much talk as to how many of the new era people will be brought back for Survivor 50.
[01:11:51] And now we have the chance to actually look at it. And it's going to be especially interesting with 41 because again, to your point, there's been a lot about the new hotness and a lot of talk about how especially 45 and 46 are some of the best that the new era has to offer.
[01:12:05] Could that mean that Survivor 41, which is in the new era, is a season that could be left behind in terms of casting?
[01:12:12] It could be. I don't think it will be. Like, I suspect that you'll have at least a representative from Survivor 41, but this is going to be a fascinating new era for the Survivor wish list.
[01:12:24] Yes, it is. So we're still going to walk in with our newly refurbished five picks, but still it's going to be really interesting because we're going to have to talk even more, I think, about the meta and the archetypes that these people might be competing with
[01:12:36] and who actually stands a solid shot of coming back. From your perspective, Rob, any people you would want to put on your shortlist from 41 off the top of your head? So I'm going to stump for, I think, second chances is the way to go for. Especially for Survivor 41.
[01:12:52] And I would say that so I'll say, Shan is going to be super fascinating. Danny, talking about somebody else who was really bolstered by appearances on the challenge. Dr. Evie Gagoda would be great.
[01:13:08] Ricard was somebody I thought that there was untapped potential there, and I'm sure there's more. I'm looking forward to Survivor 41's discussion.
[01:13:16] Yeah, I'm really excited to tap into it because again, I do feel like this cast has largely been kind of broad brush, but like, oh, Survivor 41 was all about the Triton. Xander too. Yeah, I like when you said Xander.
[01:13:28] Yeah, so I think that this will be a really interesting cast to dig into and sort of put ourselves also in the mind frame of 41 when we were looking at some of these cast and being like, these are instant
[01:13:39] returnees. Let's see if we can cash that check. I'll be talking about Season 41 with Maggie Morgan, but Rob, we are barreling down the end of this. You and I are going to get back together in normally a short amount of time to wrap up this whole shebang.
[01:13:51] Can't wait. Can you believe it, Mike? What a summer. I cannot believe it because it also signifies the end of summer as well. But who knows? Maybe that means that 40 several is on the horizon. So happy to keep this Survivor bloodstream pumping.
[01:14:05] We're not taking a hiatus unlike what Survivor was forced to do. We're going to be back tomorrow with Maggie Morgan talking Survivor 41. Rob, thank you as per usual.
[01:14:16] The insight you bring, especially to these returning seasons is so, so welcome. Again, I think it's so much fun to put ourselves in the headspace of like what the fan base was thinking at the time? Why did this person come back?
[01:14:27] Did it work in retrospect? And you know, I'm sad to do away with it, but it comes with the benefit of being able to do that entirely for Survivor 50.
[01:14:35] Yeah, it's been so fun, Mike. You've done such a great job. It's been so nice to have all these podcasts to listen to every day. So I want to thank you for your tireless work here.
[01:14:43] Oh, please. Thanks all my I'm not crying myself to sleep every night. I'm giggling with joy that I get to do this every single day. Rob, anything you'd like to plug right now? Of course, you are wrist deep in Big Brother at this moment.
[01:14:56] Okay. Of course, wrist deep. Oh my God. I guess that's like over my waist. So that's a lot. Yeah. Check out all the Big Brother coverage. And of course, we mentioned the scripted TV coverage as well.
[01:15:11] Everything that's going on over on scripted TV, including listening to Mike Bloom talk with Sasha Joseph over on TV for real.
[01:15:20] Yep. That's right. Every week we're coming back with a new reality TV contestant talking about scripted TV have had quite a number of survivor contestants on there and definitely more to come as well.
[01:15:29] So be sure to check that out as well as the Survivor 50 wishlist as tomorrow we officially begin the new era of our wish list with Maggie Morgan covering Survivor 41. Thank you all so much for listening until tomorrow. Take care. Bye bye.