Today, Mike and Lindsay Wilson discuss Season 35: Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers.[00:00:14] Hi everybody and welcome back to the Survivor 50 Wish List Podcast. An off-season series where we're trying to figure out who could and should come back for Survivor 50. Today we're talking some heroes, we're talking some healers, maybe we'll be talking about some hustlers as we're discussing Season 35 of Survivor.
[00:00:37] Maybe one of its most suspect themes and we certainly have a lot of suspects to look over to see who will make the shortlist. Of course, I am Mike Bloom and I am joined today by someone who I would consider a hero,
[00:00:50] healer and a hustler even though there are no H's in her name, though maybe we could add that in. It's Lindsay Wilson. Incredible. Yes, HHH, maybe the best and worst reason for themes to exist.
[00:01:03] I mean, it has to be one of the goofiest themes I've ever seen on a reality TV show. Like Brains Brawn Beauty, yes, Beauty was this odd and peggy hanger on that's not exactly brumming up against the age old conflict of Brain vs. Brawn.
[00:01:22] Blood vs. Water as a theme makes sense, as a title makes absolutely no sense. This is sort of a combination of both where it has sort of set up this three-sided rivalry between three different groups of people who all also have kind of questionable categorizing
[00:01:42] They all have jobs. Yeah, like, okay, you're a healer, you help heal people, but you're not a hero. That's for sure. That's a different thing than a healer. If you're a doctor, actuaries. Yes. If you're a doctor, I'm so sorry. You're no healer.
[00:01:55] You're no hero in this perspective. Yeah, no, absolutely not. Like even Chrissy eventually abandons it where she's like, I guess I'm a hero because I'm a mother. Not because I'm an actuary. I don't know.
[00:02:04] Well, regardless what label they have, the label that we are going to assign to them today is possible Survivor 50 returnee. And Lindsay, it's only appropriate in Season 35 that introduced a game-changing twist in the form of, of course, the very controversial Final Four firemaking that we introduced a
[00:02:25] controversial twist here as well. Do you have your flint ready? I certainly do. I thought you were going to say that people would have to like pick a rock out of a bag and if it was matched what you picked, then they could be on the season.
[00:02:36] That's what we have. Like the worst theme ever. We have the worst challenge ever. That was the loved ones challenge too. Season 35 was kind of a weird season overall. I've said this before, obviously, this is when I first started podcasting for the B&B
[00:02:50] and covering Survivor as a reporter, but I always felt like the first half of Survivor Triple H was mad to middling. Then it actually really picks up in the post-mer especially when we get that like secret alliance of four coming together.
[00:03:05] I would say through Ben idling out Lauren and then sort of the church it up, Ashley blindside of it all. And then I think one of the reasons why people largely obfuscate the season, unfortunately,
[00:03:17] is because of the finale and the introduction of this last minute twist that ends up putting the wind in the sails for the ship that is Ben Dreeburg and who has been this little
[00:03:26] dingy navigating its way through the cruise ships once he becomes sort of the odds on target and through a combination of idle plays and again, a new structure to the format falling his way. He makes his way to the end and wins, albeit a bit controversially.
[00:03:41] And hopefully this choice isn't that controversial. Lindsay, we are expanding the courts here. We're doing what those powers in Washington wouldn't do. But we are now going to be, of course, in the past over the past 34 seasons, we have
[00:03:59] decided that maybe two, three, but maximum four people would be allowed during one of these wishlist podcasts. And then maybe we'll add other people on as wild cards in the roundup that I do with Rob. We're going to expand it out here.
[00:04:14] We're going to go to five people, a maximum of five from heroes, healers, hustlers onwards. And there's one big reason for this is that we are in uncharted waters when it comes to returning discussions, because game changers besides winners of war was the last opportunity
[00:04:34] for people to come on. Basically, from these seasons, we had obviously four people come back in Edge of Extinction. But with the exception of David, those people had already returned. Again, we have the winners and winners of war, and we haven't had a returning season since.
[00:04:50] So that being said, it's going to be an incredibly large pool to pull from from here on out. We're essentially looking at everyone who has not won in seasons thirty five through forty six.
[00:05:03] Not to mention, I think from a meta perspective, depending on what the theming is, I would imagine casting is probably going to be looking more closely at the last ten seasons than maybe at these old, old school seasons, though.
[00:05:15] Again, please my lips to the casting producers ears that please look back on those early seasons. Let's do some old school casting choices. But I would just imagine from a logistics perspective and a casual audience recent memory
[00:05:28] perspective, we're going to be pulling a lot from the Heroes, Healers, Hustlers era on March. So we just want to guess a little bit of a wider net Lauren Rimmer style to catch some
[00:05:38] more crabs here in these seasons from here on out, because, yeah, Lindsay, I feel like the popular consensus is with this group and moving into the latter 30s, I think, again, is due to the returning circumstances.
[00:05:51] We have kind of looked over some really interesting cast members, even in a season like this, which, again, I think a lot of people have felt has been kind of marred by the ending. There's some interesting heroes, healers and hustlers that we could talk about as possibly returning.
[00:06:08] Yeah, no doubt. I don't think this is controversial at all. I love this. There are a lot of people that I think we're probably really worried they were never going to get a chance because there was talk of we're not bringing back anyone preseason 40 ever again.
[00:06:20] So I think this is a good thing. I think this is great. And I just rewatched the season for the first time since it aired. And there were a lot of people on here that I could see us having an interesting conversation about.
[00:06:31] I think five is maybe doable. Yeah. So let's briefly dote on that for a second, because I would imagine, again, this is a season that maybe not a lot of people went back to watch just because of how the ending rang on their palate.
[00:06:42] How does that overall flow go with you? Does it match up to the way that I kind of outlined it before? Or do you think differently? I actually enjoyed this a lot more than I think I did in the week to week, which was
[00:06:54] fun, maybe just because like it felt like new survivor. So I never actually watched the journey before. I was definitely going into it with an eye toward was Chrissy robbed, was this pure misogyny?
[00:07:07] People weren't going to give it to her because she was a mom, because she was a woman. And so I think that really informed my viewing. That was really fun. And yeah, I don't know. I think you're right. I think the beginning is pretty meh.
[00:07:18] Where you're like Katrina Radke is not even in this first episode. All the way up to like Ali getting voted out is really interesting. I think it starts really picking up steam at the merge. And it was fun. I enjoyed watching this.
[00:07:30] I thought it might be a bit of a slog, but this was good. All right, well, let's start getting into this group and we will begin as we always do with the final three. And yeah, you mentioned Chrissy's perhaps controversial defeat.
[00:07:44] And we'll talk about the two men around her in Ryan and of course, our winner in Ben. So Ben, of course, does return for winners at war where he makes a deep run, makes it all the way to the finale.
[00:07:59] It certainly is not without some fireworks and true Ben bomb fashion, particularly his little rivalry with Adam Klein. But Ben has a surprisingly dramatic exit from the game where in winners at war, some of
[00:08:14] these contestants kind of had secondary goals in mind because they'd already won the game previously. Obviously, number one is two million dollars. But for Ben, you just kind of wanted some friends.
[00:08:24] This was a guy who spent the last what week and a half on the island being in an army of one, for lack of a better term, his back against the wall after he finds out that essentially everyone's turned on him. He plays an idol at seven.
[00:08:39] He plays an idol at six. He plays an idol at five and then he wins final four fire making. So he is scraping and clawing his way through each and every moment in the game and isn't even really surrounded by people that necessarily want him to be there.
[00:08:55] That it was kind of like the continual obstacle to get in the way of their million dollars until he won it. So when he comes into winners at war and a scenario is presented to him in the endgame
[00:09:06] of, OK, just so you know, if you get dragged to the end here in the final three, the jury is going to tear into you. They did not like you. You are not going to win this game.
[00:09:19] Ben decides in that moment that he would more so give a chance to somebody else to possibly make it to the end, then get to the end himself and maybe get a shot at 100K, but much more
[00:09:32] so get a shot at just being torn down in a final tribal council setting. And so, again, a bit controversially, he chooses to step out of the game at the final five. He essentially asked to get voted out.
[00:09:46] And so Sarah and Michelle and Natalie choose to do so. Ironically enough, some have said that maybe if Ben was trying to help Sarah, he actually should have stayed in the game instead. But regardless, Ben makes the choice that he does walks out with his cowboy hat held
[00:10:02] high, but certainly not out of reality TV. For those that are uninitiated, Ben has been on two challenge seasons. He has been on the Challenge USA Season one and of course, the Challenge World Championship. So that being said, we have talked about some contestants obviously through these modern
[00:10:23] seasons in particular that have jumped back to the big C of Survivor from the ponds of shows like the Challenge. Would you want Ben to replicate that process, Lindsay? Yeah, so I extra credit also watched season 40 because I was like, is that? Oh my God.
[00:10:41] Yeah, you you are by far the person who did the most homework for this. Love homework professional student. Yes. So I was watching basically to say like, is there more to the Ben story?
[00:10:53] And I think one thing that jumped out at me this time was that in rewatching 35 in particular, I think Ben's story, especially around his post-traumatic stress, everything that he went through being in the army, all of that was maybe Marines.
[00:11:07] Marines, I think he was a he was a Marine. Yeah. Yeah. Marines. Yes, exactly. Yes. Him talking about that. I felt like that was very sensitively handled. I felt like that was very well done.
[00:11:18] I think that's the important stuff with that, that I don't think I picked up on as much maybe the first time I think watching it in a binge. It was it felt like it was very well done. Coming into season 40.
[00:11:29] Definitely it was like, all right, I need to make friends this time. He and Tony and Sarah got along so well. And yeah, and then it's just kind of this moment where he's like, you know what? Vote me out. This can be a move for you.
[00:11:40] And I remember that feeling so shocking. But he also presented it like I got what I wanted out of this season. People like me this time. And I kind of feel like that's enough.
[00:11:51] Like it seems like he tied that up in a bow, moved on to the challenge. That's great. I don't know if we need to see Ben again. I agree. I also think that I talked about this a bit with Sarah as well.
[00:12:01] Not to again put words in his mouth, but it did seem like Survivor does take a toll on Ben's mental health. I mean, you talk about again, the PTSD, which I thought was so beautifully expressed in
[00:12:12] that scene where here's the popping by the fire in Heroes, Healers, Hustlers. But I wouldn't want to necessarily have him put himself in a situation that could be destructive to him. Again, he has shown that he can be on other reality shows, even though those challenges
[00:12:28] is a particular remorse so skewed towards guys his age and for what it's worth, Ben was never technically eliminated from the challenge. He actually got taken from the game twice due to injury and illness, respectively.
[00:12:41] So I would also say for me, and I will also put out a warning that especially as we're getting into these seasons, 35 onward, I really love these casts overall. I think casting is the strongest thing that modern Survivor has going for it.
[00:12:57] So I mean, no offense if there are any cast members listening out there about whether or not they're chosen. It's not necessarily for me like, oh, I don't ever want to see them come back. It's also more so speaking from a production perspective as well, especially given these
[00:13:12] seasons where despite us even expanding the shortlist, there's going to be a lot more people to pick from a lot more possibilities. And I do feel like for Ben, A, like you said, that story feels like it has a bow on it from
[00:13:25] Winners of War and that he accomplished his secondary goal. And for me also, when it comes to bringing back winners, I'm looking to, okay, the people I'm putting on the shortlist who are winners are either legends for a possible legend season
[00:13:40] or winners who were not on winners at war and should deserve another glance and maybe a different chance to see how they would do in the game that they were not necessarily given in 2020.
[00:13:51] Or if there are people who for whatever reason or another, I feel like there's some unfulfilled stuff to their story that I would want to see again. I would not say Ben fits any one of those categories. Yeah, I would agree.
[00:14:04] And I think rewatching the season to me actually was pretty good for my impression of Ben's game where I think going into it and I think the common sort of discourse is like, oh, he was handed idols. He was handed the game.
[00:14:16] He had the twist handed to him all this stuff. But I think in rewatching it, I was like, this guy was out there working really hard hustling you might say. And I think that was good. I was good to watch that.
[00:14:26] I feel like Ben played a pretty good game. Certainly it had its controversial aspects. But yeah, I think we got enough out of Ben. I think he did a great job. Carry on. Well, let's go from finished business to quite unfinished business. Let's talk about Chrissy.
[00:14:41] I mean, Chrissy has one of these mini arcs that we have experienced with people like Aubrey, like David Wright going all the way back even to like a Kathy Vavreck O'Brien where she from our perspective is really struggling in the beginning, you know, she nearly passes
[00:14:55] out during that first challenge, to the extent where Ryan actually gives her that super idol that she doesn't end up needing to use, even though it does seem like she's on the outs in the beginning.
[00:15:04] She is eventually able to cut a swath into the game, whether it's her bond with Ben, her building something with Ryan and JP in the pre-merge that ends up turning into the post-merge.
[00:15:16] And then when she's put on the back foot, when this alliance of four plus the coconuts come together to take out JP, Chrissy starts stringing together a record tying immunity run where she wins four individual immunities, again, tying the most ever for a woman in the game.
[00:15:35] And maybe in a different world where this final four fire making twist doesn't exist, she gets to the end and she wins. It's a little up for debate. I think certainly there is discussion amongst this jury vote as to Chrissy's personal relationships.
[00:15:48] I know certainly when I was talking with in particular some of the healer women in exit press, they did not have the highest remarks for Chrissy. It does seem like even when she felt like she had a social game, some of it was felt a little transactional. Right.
[00:16:02] When she's going down the line saying like, Cole, I know your ACT score, Joe, I know this about you. Maybe they don't want to get married. Yeah. I feel like it maybe was not approached in the most tactful way.
[00:16:13] All that being said to me, if there is one person that is the most guaranteed to come back for season 50 out of 35, it would be Chrissy. There would be one other person that maybe if it was like a returning season in 40, I
[00:16:28] would put right up there with her. That will get to in a little bit. But for Chrissy, she has the story, obviously, that she was the person that was quote unquote robbed by the final four fire making twist.
[00:16:39] She has the resume, someone that was able to play strategically and win challenges. And maybe Allah, like a second chance of Spencer come through and be like, OK, now I learn need to learn to be more social.
[00:16:51] And she is somebody who also obviously had a lot going on in her life as well. If you haven't checked out her road to reality podcast, Chrissy underwent a major cancer procedure as well. And she's she's doing well now. She's on the other side of it.
[00:17:05] But none of that has dulled her hunger to go back and play this game. Yeah, definitely. I actually did look up Chrissy because I was curious to see if she has talked about this at all. And she definitely seems really keen to play.
[00:17:18] I think it's actually nice to see how open she's been about like she had the test. She found out that she had that BRCA gene, which increases your risk of breast cancer
[00:17:28] at this preventive mastectomy and just I think has been so public about that in a way that is really important. And that's great. So obviously, Survivor loves the story. So she's got that. She's got all of the things you would want to see.
[00:17:39] I am going to try to walk a line a little bit here and avoid making people furious. I thought watching it, I was like, all right, I'm prepared to see an incredibly underrated game. I didn't necessarily feel like she played an incredibly underrated game.
[00:17:54] However, she should definitely come back. That's also the thing, right, is that there is maybe some potential to explore up things to improve upon. I think even Chrissy herself would pontificate on that as well.
[00:18:07] It's also interesting in that maybe if she came back for like a season 40, she could have been one of the initial targets just because, again, she was such a strong player and maybe wouldn't have the time to necessarily learn from those foibles and turn that game around.
[00:18:22] But honestly, I feel Survivor 50 would be a perfect environment for Chrissy in that like she's known enough, but there are certainly people as recently as Survivor 46 that might consider more quote unquote robbed than her that she's not stuck out as like, oh, one
[00:18:36] of the best to never win the game. But she still has the skills and again, hopefully some some hindsight there looking back on Triple H to be able to put in a hell of a game. Totally. Yeah.
[00:18:48] And I think there were definitely some gaps in her game, but I think she would be able to see what those were. I think they were not around strategy. She had a great strategic mind that whole actuary piece where she could run the numbers really easily.
[00:18:58] I thought she was really good at that. She did have good relationships. It was just there were definitely some gaps around like maybe taking things a little bit too personally sometimes or maybe not saying things exactly the right way. Challenge Beast.
[00:19:09] Yeah, I think there's definitely a lot of people are clamoring for Chrissy to come back. I think I said like who should come back? Who's an underrated second placer? I think she would be pretty high up on a lot of people's list.
[00:19:20] So spoiler alert, she's definitely on my list. Yeah. Not to mention not only a challenge piece, a challenge piece at 46 as well. There's a lot of arguments as to, oh, how would these people on the later days side of things do in these modern day Survivor challenges?
[00:19:34] And Chrissy proved that she does incredibly well at them. Do you want someone who understands you like no one else? Someone who can make your wishes come true and wants to experience the most beautiful adventure of your life with you?
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[00:20:27] Simply enter shopify.de//try and get started. Made for Germany. Powered by Shopify. Let's talk about her partner in crime once the swap happened until the end of the season. Lindsay, what are your thoughts about Ryan?
[00:20:44] Because again, speaking to maybe the roller coaster aspect like of the season, I feel like Ryan basically had two different seasons over the course of one. Yeah, the first thing that comes to my mind even before I rewatched this, my first thought
[00:20:56] about Ryan was like, we as a fandom destroyed him. Like he loved Survivor and he wanted to have a wonderful time and we were all like, we hate ourselves and we are self-loathing and you are us and let us ruin you. It was rough.
[00:21:10] Yeah, because, you know, initially in the season preview, we're like, who's this quirky guy with the red turtleneck and who's a bellhop? Oh, this is really fun. But it ended up becoming probably one of the most fiery cases I could think of.
[00:21:22] And certainly I would remember from a modern day discourse, Adam was the one that kind of unfortunately was patient zero for this. But of the fandom, I think sometimes being the most vicious to their own that Ryan was
[00:21:35] this super duper fan coming into the show and both people on the island and in the fandom did not necessarily give him the time of day when all was said and done. Yeah. And so I definitely remember that going in.
[00:21:47] And so when I went to rewatch it, I remembered I think I thought of him as like very game body and he didn't have a good social game. And I think he did have a pretty good social game where he had really strong relationships
[00:21:57] with a lot of people. He was just really bad at managing them. So I'm going to make you my best friend and then blindside you horribly so you would never vote for me. So definitely that was a gap in his game.
[00:22:09] But a lot of people did seem to like him along the way, like he was getting on great with Chrissy and Ellie and obviously he had him. I mean, him and Devon were also like the key cogs in pretty much the entire post merge.
[00:22:21] Right. Ryan and Devon are going to go to every tribal council pretty much stands to. And they're the ones that are almost always in the center of things in control. They are this really fun duo that I don't think people would necessarily expect, maybe
[00:22:33] almost a different take on Steven and JT. And again, Ryan comes on super strong in that regard. He's the one who finds the super idol. It's in my pants is a special that let me hear it.
[00:22:45] Yeah, I'm afraid in my head that he will give to Chrissy to forge this relationship that obviously comes to fruition once the swap ends up hitting. He finds an idol for himself. Yes, he will improperly play but has the ability to do so.
[00:22:58] And he gets to the end. And unfortunately, from our perspective, it starts off with Desi flat out telling him like, oh, by the way, Ryan, you're not going to win. So you're going to be disregarded over the course of this.
[00:23:09] It's down to Chrissy and Ben, which is always rough. Luckily, his bro Devon makes sure he's not a zero both finalists. But metaphorically, he pretty much is. And I go back and forth about it because Ryan himself is somebody who admittedly has not
[00:23:24] watched Survivor since his season, which is always tough. Right. Someone that was just so in love with the game that he doesn't necessarily want to watch it anymore. He said the mystique is gone in his quarantine questionnaire, but he's also been busy. He went to law school.
[00:23:40] He has moved on from the bellhop to hopefully being one that buys a suite at said hotel. So there is some interesting stuff to what would a 30 year old Ryan Ulrich look like that a 23 year old Ryan Ulrich did not bring on the other side of things,
[00:23:57] looking from a practical production perspective to speak towards that archetype again, Lindsay, are there other people that could easily take Ryan's place here? Yeah, I think absolutely. I don't think Ryan's getting a call.
[00:24:11] I think there are lots of other super fan nerds who are clamoring to come back. And I'm not necessarily sure that Ryan is the one that they're looking to as their first pick, especially if he's not keeping up with the show.
[00:24:23] I think you want someone who is still diehard super fan. I've watched all 50 seasons. I've never missed an episode. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't see it. Yeah. For what it's worth, he does say in his quarantine questionnaire, if the timing was
[00:24:35] right, I would consider one more shot where basically it's like I'm remembering back to when I was bright eyed, bushy tailed young super fan. And I still want Jeff to read my name the most amount of times at the live reunion, which
[00:24:46] maybe that dream is a little bit gone just given the state of the survivor reunion. But I think unfortunately, I would not consider Ryan one of the first couple of tears of candidates to put on the list here.
[00:24:58] Yes, I would agree. And I will say, since you mentioned the reunion, this was the worst reunion I've ever seen. It was like seven minutes long. That's the thing. It's like it really picked her poison between this, which was, I think,
[00:25:07] tear point 20 minutes long and a good part of it is like highlighting the Ben PTSD story and bringing on Marines to talk about it versus the Caramoan reunion, which is full length, but an absolute chit show. Right. Pick your poison. Exactly. Well, let's move into our jury here.
[00:25:25] And I think there's going to be some really interesting candidates to talk about. So working our way up from the beginning, we have the aforementioned Desi. We have her fellow healer in the form of Cole Meadors. We have the enigmatic firefighter JP of the heroes.
[00:25:41] One was asked to say things like that and things like that in the premiere. We have the self-proclaimed bodega Tony in one half of the coconuts in Joe Mena. We have the the crab fisher woman who end up kind of taking America's hearts by storm over
[00:25:57] the course of her season in Lauren Rimmer. We have the lifeguard voter right out before the finale in Ashley. We have sex doctor himself. Knock, knock. It's Dr. Mike. And we have our fallen angel in Devin Pinto. And yet Devin is such a unicorn.
[00:26:15] It's so odd because we have certainly had before the broey lackadaisical surfer types, and we have certainly had them afterwards. But there's there's something about Devin like Devin kind of has that riz. He immediately had Josh enamored with him in the first one out interview.
[00:26:32] Everyone slowly fell in love with him as he just kind of took things as they came. He was the guy who unfortunately was given not an advantage. He was the guy who was given that epic shot of him lying on his back
[00:26:43] in pure starvation as the drone showcased his pure misery. But he was also someone who was incredibly well positioned throughout the postmerge, even in a period of time when Ben kept playing idols and, you know, trying to to foist the target onto others.
[00:27:01] The only time Devin was really in the line of fire was at the final five. And he makes this awesome move where Ben is claiming he has an idol. Chrissy says it's not true, but Devin decides to be a little cautious.
[00:27:14] He decides that he's just going to throw a vote on to Mike. Ben is going to try to vote for Devin. He plays his idol correctly. As a result, it's a one to one tie. And because he is locked in with Chrissy and Ryan, he goes from Ben
[00:27:28] pulling off what he just did with Lauren to him to giving himself a fighting chance and having his alliance get rid of Mike over him. It's a low key, brilliant move that I don't think necessarily gets talked about
[00:27:41] for a guy that's a little low key as well in terms of his impact on Survivor, I think. Yeah, Devin is someone who I think is very high on the list of people who would have been brought back
[00:27:52] if there had been a returning season pre new era stuff. I think definitely that move holds up incredibly well. Still absolutely loved it. And then, you know, Dr. Mike looking at him like, did you write down my name? And he's like, yeah, I'm sorry.
[00:28:06] Like you get you feel that he actually does feel bad about it. But he's like, no, I have so much game. It's an incredible move. I love it. You mentioned his charisma. It just like oozes off the screen. Totally enamored with Devin by the end of this rewatch.
[00:28:19] He's great. I absolutely love rewatching Devin. He had so much game. So charming, delightful. I really think that he is in the conversation. Yeah. And you could argue that again, had this final four fire
[00:28:30] making twist not exist, obviously, Ben gets easily voted out for a three to one. And there is an argument as to basically whether Devin or Chrissy would win. This is a guy who seemed to cultivate a lot of relationships.
[00:28:43] But again, the edit that we were being given more so showed Chrissy as like the outright strategic force. So maybe it would be like the strategy of Chrissy versus the social of Devin. I know that's kind of a black and white way of looking at their games
[00:28:56] and who would necessarily prevail. I think that Devin might get it, especially just given the way that the jury had viewed Chrissy. So, yeah, to your point again, if something like 40 was a returning season, I could see that wasn't didn't involve winners.
[00:29:11] I could see Devin coming back there. He is someone who I'm not sure if he's actively kept up with Survivor. It seemed like he's living a very happy life now. I've been checking his Instagram and it seems like he's married
[00:29:23] with a child and is just having a joyous time. What should be noted is that back when he was booted at the end of 2017, Devin said that he would only play Survivor again as a blood versus water season with his mom.
[00:29:41] The question is, Lindsay, how much are we taking Devin and his word here? Yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's probably one of those things where like when back in Panama and Iris is like, my mom is so important to me.
[00:29:53] And then several years later, he was like, yeah, Terry was right. Actually, my wife is the one I would want to talk to you now. This feels a bit like that. Like maybe he would come back with his wife or maybe he would just come back
[00:30:03] anyway now that it's it's season 50. Who's saying no? I don't know if we haven't heard him say specifically recently. I kind of think maybe he would come back. I also think like you touched on it a bit. I think when people talk about Chrissy as being completely robbed
[00:30:17] by the fire making twist, I think Devin was going to get it, if not then. So I don't know. That's just my personal take. Well, let's talk about the person that Devin was able to outfox in the end and tie up the vote against at the final five.
[00:30:30] Dr. Mike. Now, I would say by and large, this is not necessarily like a huge, wacky season of Survivor. This may be one of the exceptions, you know, from the first time when they're on the boat in the premiere and Jeff asked Mike what he does.
[00:30:44] It goes, I'm a sex doctor. You knew that this guy was going to become a character force in this season, and he absolutely was, you know, as the game wore on. He ends up evading tribal council in the pre-emerge
[00:30:59] and he takes everything that's thrown his way on the chin, much like the dirt on his lessened yellow shirt over the course of the season. He's the one that when the healers are struggling, that is going to make this big play a Ben calling him what?
[00:31:13] Like the Statue of Liberty and also King Arthur at the same time. He'll eventually call himself Statue of Liberty. It's like America is going to take over this time. Yes. And so he does have these again, colorful metaphors to talk about this quirky personality.
[00:31:27] And he does get brought into the fold around the final seven where Joe's gone, Mike looks a little less threatening and everyone's like, OK, we got to take out Ben next. And even then, Mike still has some chaos to his name, where Lauren
[00:31:39] has that two half idle thing going on and gives half to Mike and Mike just throws it in the fire just out of pure mayhem. So I would say from like a strategic perspective,
[00:31:51] I don't know if Mike is necessarily someone you would want to bring back for that. He's a character. If he has shown from his many podcast appearances since, especially with Rob, he is absolutely shot out of a cannon at all times.
[00:32:03] And he also says that in his quarantine questionnaire when asked if he would want to come back, he says, I think about playing again every day, every day. I think of new strategies I can use and new ways I can change and reinvent the game.
[00:32:15] I have not won yet. So, yes, I would play again. And if I ever did, I would give the fans exactly what I think they want. Wow. It's like another Mike is here with me. Incredible. Us Mike's we just are able to channel each other so effectively.
[00:32:28] It's like the I don't know. That's like the the upside down has those sort of fungal roots that reach out and all connect. The Mike's have that as well. This is just like that. Yes, exactly. In rewatching, I had forgotten what a an agent of chaos
[00:32:40] Dr. Mike was, where I think I remembered, especially with his RTP appearances. I think you're like, OK, he was wacky and funny and he talked about being a sex doctor and that was his favorite thing to talk about.
[00:32:51] But I'd forgotten all of these absurd things or just every now and then he'd be like, I'm kind of bored. I'm just going to like throw half an idol in there in the fire.
[00:32:59] And like every now and then it seemed like he starts off the season being like, I want to be one of the best players ever. I want to play a perfect game. And then it's almost like he gets carried away
[00:33:09] by the fact that he wants to make good TV. So he throws away half the idol for no strategic value. He's just like, I've always wanted to do that. And it's like, yeah, but should you have? I also probably doesn't help that again.
[00:33:20] He sat on his hands for the entire first half of the season where he doesn't go to travel council with the healers and then on the Yawa tribe. It's like him and Cole and Jessica together. And then he's immediately put on the back foot once Jessica,
[00:33:32] Desi and Cole all go in a row. And so he immediately goes from like kind of laid back, goofy to like feisty, goofy. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It gets feisty is a good word. I think he definitely starts trying to agitate people.
[00:33:47] He turns into a bit of an antagonist, but up against Joe. It's like they kept in the douchey guy or whatever to go back to. Oh man, that's a deep cut. Right. Oh my God. What do you want to see? Dr. Mike come back for Survivor 50.
[00:34:03] He's definitely on the list of people that I have in my surprisingly long shortlist where if we're just looking at characters like Dr. Mike is absolutely a major character, especially down the line. I think he is worth discussing. I agree as well.
[00:34:19] I think he is one of the standout characters of Survivor heroes, healers, hustlers. I am intrigued. You know, obviously it's seven years ago, but if you were to ask somebody, who do you remember from this season? They would probably go like Ben, Chrissy and maybe Dr.
[00:34:33] Mike as third, which goes to show again kind of the staying power of his character. He's someone who is obviously incredibly hungry to come back and would provide that sense of chaos. Almost like when they brought back Debbie for Game Changers
[00:34:47] that you kind of knew what you were getting in seeing her do it again, even after she had the opportunity to watch back her game and see if she could change it from there. I still think Mike would bring what we think he would bring, considering again
[00:34:59] the way he has conducted himself on podcast since. Yeah, and I think he fits in well with the like new era villainy kind of thing that we need, where it's just like silly antagonizing people as opposed to, you know, burning socks or whatever.
[00:35:14] Let's talk about Lauren Rimmer because Rimmer fever was blazing during the fall of 2017. This was someone that I think coming in a lot of people thought would probably be an early boot. You know, she is someone that kind of sticks out like a sore thumb where,
[00:35:32] yes, she is only 35 years old, but she's kind of like it's her Mike. It's her Mike. No, sorry. It's her on the Hustlers tribe. And then she's just kind of surrounded by a bunch of young people.
[00:35:42] And so it's almost like, OK, she's going to stick out too much. Again, she's not old. She's older. She's 35. But like any reason to get rid of somebody early on. But instead, the tribe kind of rallies around Lauren to the extent
[00:35:55] where Lauren seemingly is the one to lead the charge to kind of turn the tide and get rid of Patrick. And she has forever more kind of vehemently put in the meme of not trusting redheads into the survivor lexicon.
[00:36:06] I remember in 46 when, you know, everyone on and off screen were warning people about Kenzie like, do you not listen to Lauren Rimmer? Don't trust the redheads. Maybe that's one reason why Kenzie had to dye her hair after her win.
[00:36:17] But Lauren was someone that held a surprising amount of power in the game. Again, we get to this point in the men emerge when her, Devin, Ashley and Ben all go on this sort of like double date
[00:36:30] during a reward and they say, all right, we're all going to work together. Now we're going to flip the game on its head. Chrissy, Ryan, JP, they're too powerful of a trio. Let's go ahead and take them out.
[00:36:42] And Lauren again was able to assume power in that moment, even in the round that she goes. She's finding advantages, right? She's the first one ever to do the bank of vote where she purposely doesn't vote in a tribal council to get an extra vote.
[00:36:55] She's the one who finds this weird half idol thing where like half of it was at a challenge and she had to give another half to somebody else. And Dr. Mike destroys it much like her game is destroyed when her friendship
[00:37:07] with Ben obviously breaks apart when she is part of the whole group of turncoats to eventually get rid of King Arthur or at least try to. And he sends her out with one single vote. The first time in survivor history that someone was idled out
[00:37:24] with just a single vote. So in the moment, people were understandably me as well. I'm sure you two, Lindsay, in love with this is a very different type of person that we usually see dominate the game of survivor, especially in that era.
[00:37:40] And so people were chomping at the bit to have her back. Maybe it's due to this season being seven years ago or due to Laura not really having much of a social media footprint and not really participating in the discourse.
[00:37:52] But it does kind of feel like, Lindsay, the the clamor for Laura and Rimmer has kind of faded away in the past half decade. Yeah, the thing that struck me while I was rewatching is I do think that Lauren was superseded by Elaine.
[00:38:06] I think that she got sort of carried away by that and just sort of got forgotten a little bit, just recency bias being what it is. And then new era. Who remembered her? Even I had forgotten about her.
[00:38:18] I forgot about the white hat magically saying, Yes, I did. I love that compared to Dr. Mike's shirt, it felt like almost a laundry commercial of like, don't try this detergent, look at your yellow shirt, try this one. Her white hat stays clean through.
[00:38:30] Was it 33 days? Right, exactly. Yeah. And yeah, she definitely had more game than I remember. Like you were talking about. She kind of flips it and makes it so there's that seven person thing where she's suddenly saying, like, all right, we've seven
[00:38:44] are obviously not all making it to the end. Let's flip this game on its head. And she was really leading the charge on that. And I had completely forgotten that. I thought she was just kind of a folksy, fun character that we all loved, which she absolutely was.
[00:38:55] But she also had some game. And yeah, I really do think that it was just someone like Elaine came along. And probably there are others who I'm forgetting. The lane is who comes to mind immediately as like she sort of replaced
[00:39:07] Lauren in our hearts as far as that archetype goes. But I will always remember her talking about the horseshoe crab thing in the preseason. Yes, absolutely. That was like the horseshoe crab mating, I think it was or the blood,
[00:39:18] the blood, you could use it for like medicinal purposes. That's what it was. Have some very specific healing powers. Yeah. So it's tough because I would say that Lauren, if we're talking about other players superseding their archetype, I mean, again,
[00:39:33] we could say what we said about Ryan for Lauren. But Lauren, for me, is almost like the wish part of the wish list coming out with no offense to Ryan of like Lauren is this kind of uncovered gem in a twenty twenty four lens of Heroes, Healers, Hustlers
[00:39:47] that not enough people talk about that. I would push more to the forefront on my list, even if I acknowledge to your point that there is one person coming for seasons later that will kind of do what Lauren's doing and garner
[00:40:02] obviously a much more attention for it culminating in some see a money. Yeah, absolutely. Well, to that point, actually, let's talk about Joe Mena for a second, because Joe Stum even heard this before is a bald guy with a beard
[00:40:16] who kind of has a bit of a dominating attitude, talks really quickly. It's hyper aggressive about finding idols and making big shows at tribal council. And so Joe is, you know, making hay while the sun shown from the beginning. He and you talk about Mike's chaos.
[00:40:32] Dr. Mike is a guy who immediately starts hunting for an idol as soon as he gets back to camp. And like Joe clocks him about it, even though they will eventually become each other's closest allies.
[00:40:41] Joe will pull off the first quote unquote probably big move of the season if you don't count Lauren turning the game against Patrick when down in numbers at the swap, he's able to purposely draw votes onto himself by being antagonistic at tribal council so that he can play
[00:40:55] the idol on himself and they can get rid of Alan in the process and secure the numbers. And Joe is and that's saying something, considering his closest ally is Dr. Mike, probably the most outspoken of the two, especially when it came to his feelings about somebody like Chrissy
[00:41:11] and somebody like Ben. Again, the question I would have for you about Joe is once again, if we were bringing people back a few seasons from now, I think Joe would ping a lot on productions radar as somebody who had this
[00:41:25] willingness and eagerness to make moves, to play the game, to find and play advantages like it was nothing has time worn on by the fact that now he's kind of put away on the toy shelf with all the Tony clones we have seen over the course of Survivor.
[00:41:40] Yeah, I think definitely the latter, where I think he really it's almost like he did himself a disservice by leaning so hard into the Tony comparisons because coming into my rewatch, I was like, yeah,
[00:41:52] he's the guy who's just wanted to be just like Tony and he even kind of looks like Tony. And then he doesn't really land for me, at least. He doesn't he's not constantly at their finding idols. He's not making spy shacks.
[00:42:05] He's just kind of like Tony without the charm. Like everybody talked about how much they love Tony. And it was like, in spite of myself, he was super annoying, but I liked him anyway. And this guy, it was just like, oh, you were so mean.
[00:42:18] And like he gets into an awful argument with Ben, you know, questionable whether he actually said like mean things about Ben being in the Marines right after we got shown stuff about Ben's post-traumatic stress, whether that actually happened unclear in the edit. But like, that's not good.
[00:42:35] That's a tough luck. He's quite mean to Chrissy. He doesn't get along with like at times he's trying to be nice to Desi. But Desi is like this guy is tanking my game. And so I don't know.
[00:42:46] I feel like he does get sort of overlooked, I think, for some of the other Tony clones that maybe pop a little bit more. Yeah. And we talked about this a bit with some other seasons that Joe, to me,
[00:42:56] at least, and people can feel free to disagree with me in the comments, feels like one of these people that like is good to kind of leave in Survivor Heroes, Healers, Hustlers, that like he served his purpose. He played his role in this season.
[00:43:08] And I don't necessarily feel like I need to see him for a second time. And again, all this is interesting because I think if we had done this entire exercise, like two years after Healers, Healers, Hustlers aired, it could be OK.
[00:43:22] Yeah, Joe's definitely someone I want to bring back. Maybe it's just sort of the it's the opposite of like absence makes the heart grow fonder. We're getting to see so many other different types of players come after Joe
[00:43:31] makes us kind of look back at him and say, listen, he created entertainment for the season. I don't know if it warrants necessarily a second appearance. Yeah, definitely. And even before I did my rewatch, Joe was on my short list of people
[00:43:45] to be watching because I think I had an idea of like, who do people want to see again? And I figured people would probably want to at least have a conversation about Joe. But yeah, I feel like I agree with you completely. You said it very well.
[00:43:55] Just maybe we leave him where he is in season 35. It's good old 2017. I do want to talk about the person that Joe was maybe shackled to and getting all the nerves up at a certain point. I want to talk about Desi.
[00:44:07] And I would imagine if you're only a Survivor fan, you would be like, why? I would say of the Healers, perhaps besides work, Desi is one of them that had the least amount of airtime, where I believe
[00:44:21] she wins the first individual immunity and then she loses the second one. And they vote her out basically because of it is a little bit of a confusing vote. If I do remember correctly, where it's like surprisingly scattered. But other than that and some choice quotes about Chrissy
[00:44:36] in her postseason press, Desi, I think, has largely gone a bit unremembered in the course of specifically Survivor. However, this is where we bring the challenge back in. So Desi has been on both seasons so far of the Challenge USA.
[00:44:53] And honestly, from my perspective, this seemed to be much more of a preferable show to her, where in the first season, you know, she is someone that is able to dominate from a physical perspective, obviously very well respected by her competition
[00:45:09] and is able to rack up a nice resume and honestly gets out of the game in an incredibly stupid bullshit way where, you know, she's randomly assigned the Meow Meow Enzo as a partner in the final for a swimming
[00:45:22] leg where Enzo refuses to swim and ends up quitting the game. And Desi is dragged out by proxy just because she was partnered with him in that moment, even though the rest of the final,
[00:45:32] they had an uneven number of people and had one person run a leg by themselves. Desi had to go out with Enzo, and she was so devastated. She luckily gets a chance, a second chance in season two, where it goes even better for her.
[00:45:47] She does have a couple of moments of struggle from like a mental health perspective, but she puts together an incredibly dominant game as part of a group of survivor girls that pretty much runs the entire season,
[00:45:58] makes it to the final and beats her allies, plus a challenge veteran to win the season. And so on the one hand, it's a little bit like, OK, Desi's popping for me more on screen than I would think. And I also was surprised looking at her quarantine questionnaire
[00:46:16] even before all that, when asked if she would return again, she put in all caps, Absolutely. It was the experience of a lifetime. I often describe it the same way women with multiple kids describe childbirth. While in the moment, I was often miserable.
[00:46:28] But after the fact, I fell so in love with the experience that I wouldn't mind doing it over and over again. So on the one hand, there is maybe something interesting as we talked about with a good amount of challenge veterans as to, OK, what would Desi bring
[00:46:40] now that she has a challenge championship under her belt? On the other hand, I feel like from my perception of watching her on the Challenge USA season two, the thing she struggled with the most was lying and deceiving people.
[00:46:59] She really and she even expressed that to me in a post-win interview was like that she did not necessarily like having to go back on her word that she promised Tori something and then ends up voting her into elimination.
[00:47:11] And so, again, I would love to see Desi on my screen and maybe in the section towards the end, I will just say, like, put her permanently on the challenge as a staple because she's an absolute beast in that regard.
[00:47:22] On the other hand, I don't want to necessarily like revoke her the opportunity if she is so adamant about playing. But given all that, part of me is saying, like, is Survivor really the game for you, Desi? Yeah.
[00:47:35] Desi was someone who I very much had my eye on in the rewatch where I didn't watch the season that she won of the challenge, but I did watch the first one where she got absolutely hosed and couldn't agree more.
[00:47:48] Her sobbing and like begging Enzo not to quit. Heartbreaking. So I'm so glad she got to go back and got to win. And I'm also very happy to hear that she had a good time on Survivor. That makes me very happy. Desi seems like a wonderful person.
[00:47:59] Yeah. And congratulations to her. Recently married at the time we're talking. Yeah. And just like watching the final tribal council, she's sort of like everybody starts picking at each other in this really unpleasant way. And she shuts it down and she goes, I just want to remind everyone
[00:48:12] this isn't real life. You can still trust people when you get out of here. You can still live your life. And just I want you to remember that. And that's the pageant girl in her, is it not? True. Yeah. So, yes, I was definitely watching for her
[00:48:24] because I know there are some people we're putting back because of what they gave us and their first time out. Desi for me is someone where I'm like, what could you give us? I think she has so much potential. She's a huge question mark.
[00:48:36] She's had more time on reality TV where maybe she's gotten better at like the confessional game or maybe she's just going to pop more like knows how to talk to the camera in a way where maybe she would be shown more.
[00:48:48] We saw a little bit of the challenge dominance like she wins. I think the first immunity of the season is hers. The first immunity. And like, yeah, I just think she has that skill set. Very glad to hear she had a good time.
[00:49:00] However, if she was struggling with the trust part, I didn't know about that. So maybe I don't know. She's another one who I think she was definitely on my short list of people to consider.
[00:49:11] But is she one who we maybe want to think about letting her protect her piece? I don't know. Yeah, well, let's see. We can definitely talk about it towards the end. I don't want to necessarily broad brush.
[00:49:22] Ashley Cole, JP are like part of our like resident young hot squad here on. I mean, Cole is somebody that had a major impact in the premerge, definitely one of the most visible characters, even though he doesn't go to
[00:49:35] tribal council, of course, with his showmans, with Jessica, with him passing out in the fire nearly towards the fire during that one point and then being taken out right after he gets into like that wrestling mass with Chrissy over the aisle that's under the flag.
[00:49:52] JP was like a walking meme back when Survivor Twitter was kind of coming alive. And Ashley is someone that I always kind of had a soft spot in my heart for. Was she the biggest character or personality?
[00:50:03] No, but she was always someone that I think was always like a good go with person, with somebody that kind of got unfairly lumped in with JP in the beginning of the game, but then got in good with other people,
[00:50:14] got close with Devin, obviously, with everything that was happening at the swap and was able to parlay that into a pretty good showing. Do you have any thoughts about any of these three? Because all that being said, I don't necessarily know
[00:50:27] if any of these three would necessarily be considered for 50. Yeah, I don't think we need to spend too much time on any of these three. I think Ashley and JP, arguably the most boring showmans in Survivor history. Like it's not even real, really.
[00:50:40] We just get kind of like a innuendo double entendre thing that landed on the RHAP soundboard from Ashley. But like, that's kind of it. But yeah, I agree. I think I enjoyed watching Ashley thought she seemed like she had a little bit
[00:50:56] you know, gas in the tank or whatever. Cole was funny to watch because he just like couldn't keep his mouth shut. He thought he had so much game, but would just like blur things out immediately. Everyone hated how much he ate. Thing where he falls down.
[00:51:08] That was kind of entertaining. But yeah, I don't know. We don't need to see these people again. All right. Well, then let us move into our final group here. The pre jury, and this is an interesting group of characters.
[00:51:20] So working our way up from the beginning, we have former Olympic swimmer and first one out Katrina Radke. We have Simone, who I think is most well known for what? Like pooping in the ocean and announcing it. Maybe that's right.
[00:51:32] We have, of course, the kind of like man on fire and not only his hair, but like the way he was behaving in Patrick. We have almost similar a chaos agent in former NFL player Alan Ball.
[00:51:45] We have, of course, someone who has become a podcast guest staple here on. Rob has a podcast after her boot in Roar. We have Ali Elliott, who is someone I definitely want to talk about
[00:51:54] as someone who had a little bit of a shock boot as someone who was such a vocal part of the narrative for the first half of the season. And we have someone who ultimately lasts the entire game without going to tribal council.
[00:52:06] And the first one she goes to, she's immediately picked up as the merge boot. And the first time for a while that the merge boot did not make the jury in the form of Jessica. Where do you want to start here, Lindsay? Let's just start with Ali.
[00:52:20] I think she was my winner pick, I think, going into this season. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. She was somebody who what she was a celebrity assistant at the time, if I'm remembering correctly. So obviously she was someone who talked up a lot of her networking skills,
[00:52:34] a lot of her for lack of a better term hustling. And as much as I talk about like Devon and Ryan kind of being personified as the center of the hustlers, Ali almost seemed to be like the voice box of it.
[00:52:45] It felt like we got a lot of Ali in the premerge and maybe you can contest that. But I feel like we got so much from her perspective. Maybe it's just because she kind of had that magnetic way of talking.
[00:52:55] But it really did seem like she was someone that was in control of her tribe and was ready to take it all over. And then the swap hits and her two bros and Ryan and Devon hop over with Chrissy and JP.
[00:53:08] She's left with Rourke, who ends up going. And then when her tribe loses again, Ali is an easy person to get picked off. And I certainly remember in the moment, a lot of people were clamoring
[00:53:19] for the return of Ali saying there was a lot of missed potential there that she was a robbed premerge G. Otis, how does she reflect nowadays from your perspective, Lindsay? Yeah, I think she was great. Definitely. We got a lot of her in the premerge.
[00:53:33] She was a really good narrator for what was going on. She had that relationship with with Ryan that was a bit surprising for me to see. I'd forgotten that she's just like completely the reason her game gets tanked. Or certainly she feels that way.
[00:53:46] She, I think, was good in challenges. She seemed to get along with everybody pretty well. I think probably she's someone who would get left behind. This does feel like a wish in wish list kind of pick. But I think she's a great pick.
[00:53:59] I think there's a lot more that we could see from her. She had a ton of potential. I thought she was very, very good. She had a lot of game and a great narrator. And I think we're going to need this.
[00:54:08] Yeah, I think potential is a great way to put it. This was someone who set things up really well in those first three episodes, only to have them kind of dismantle in those latter three, much like that challenge that they did where they were all holding the ropes
[00:54:19] and stacking the blocks together to get pizza. When asked if she would play again, Ali said it would have to be the right time in my life. I debate this all the time. Now, if I got asked to do blood versus water with my sister,
[00:54:30] I'd make it the right time. Ha ha. But I sure do love the show. And it would be truly hard to say no. Let's see, what is this with these people saying like I have one thing on my rider
[00:54:40] and it's that I must play a game where I may have to vote out my loved one. Yeah, right. Exactly. Like she and Devon are like, we will only do blood versus water. It's the only theme we will allow.
[00:54:49] They're going to be sad to learn that there are no more themes. But one other thing with Ali is like she knew Patrick going in and she was like, oh, yes, this will help me. And then Patrick was just like, oh, God, if I bring this up,
[00:54:59] then they're going to kick me off the show. So I think she thought that it would be helpful. And he just didn't do that at all. Well, it's tough, yeah, because they both went to college together. Right. They both went to Auburn.
[00:55:09] And I think Patrick actually moved Ali in. And she actually talked about this in her quarantine questionnaire that especially in retrospect, she was really not happy with how that all transpired, because like, yes, on paper could give you an inherent connection.
[00:55:22] And again, in most situations, it means that you probably would be able to protect each other. But Patrick was such a wild card at that point that Ali felt it was kind of dragging down her game where she eventually just cuts fate.
[00:55:35] And when Lauren's like, oh, it's time for him to go, she's like, sure, that's fine. Go ahead. I have much better prospects to go to. No, I'm moving into a new house right now, Patrick.
[00:55:45] Yeah. When she sort of hitched her wagon to him, it was like, oh, no, what have I done? It turns out he's just like this anchor on her game, absolutely dragging her down. So not to mix my metaphor too aggressively there.
[00:55:56] But yeah, I think if she had been with someone else who was maybe a bit more predictable and had a bit more game savvy than sure. But like Patrick was not your guy. How about Jessica Johnston?
[00:56:06] And yeah, it's because Jessica's narrative and you can speak to this more so Lindsay does feel it was almost entirely centered around this flirt man's with Cole. I think it's just because, again, we really hadn't seen that for a while
[00:56:20] on the show that you could tell producers were just kind of biting at every little single piece of showman's bait that would hit the water. And so unfortunately, that becomes the limit of Jessica's storyline, considering that she gets voted out at the first and only tribal council
[00:56:34] that she attends. And so I do feel like she was a little robbed from that perspective. Jessica is also somebody that has done a lot since her time on the show. She is currently 37. She's gotten married. She had a child last year. What are your thoughts about Jessica?
[00:56:51] Jessica is someone who exactly what you're saying, I was like, it's her and Cole. They have this silly little flirt man's. My kisses are very private. She like kisses him on the cheek. I remember there was a lot made at the time of her being a virgin.
[00:57:03] And it was like, all right, so we're going to engage with this. Oh, yeah. Everything old is new again on Survivor. Exactly. Exactly right. Yes. And so I remember that's all I remembered about her going in.
[00:57:13] But she was so much more engaged in the strategy than I remembered. She was delightful. I found her very charming and all of her confessionals. Very fun narrator. She like finds an advantage in her chip bag and the way she narrates it is really cute.
[00:57:29] She got a bit tanked by the fact that Cole couldn't keep a single secret. And he's like, I'm going to use her secret as my secret. And it's going to be perfect. So I think maybe if she hadn't been connected to him so much,
[00:57:40] maybe it would have played out better for her. But Jessica is actually someone I would be maybe interested in seeing again. And I don't think I thought that coming in. But she was really good. She seemed like she had some game and like her engagement.
[00:57:52] And it was really what struck me. It was like she seems like she loves the game. She seemed like she's having a ton of fun out there. I don't know. I think there's something here. I think there is something there.
[00:58:00] And again, there's this idea of much like Ali, a little bit of raw potential of maybe she was not as vocally strategic as Ali was, but it did kind of feel like she had just gotten started in the game. She was finally going to her first tribal council.
[00:58:14] And then she's voted out because she is sort of like, well, all of these other healers, you know, maybe there's a chance that Cole has an idol or something. And maybe we'll vote out Jessica because she's the least likely to sort of get something played on her.
[00:58:25] Also, I think there was probably talk about like her being a threat socially as well. So she is definitely someone that like maybe if this was a shallower cast, I could consider as like a possible second chance potential.
[00:58:38] And who knows? Maybe she's someone who ends up a wild card. Let us know your thoughts in the comments. I think compared to other people on this season, I don't necessarily see it. But she had again, I feel like her alley could kind of show up
[00:58:51] on that fictional season 40 as in every returning season when it's like, oh, here's sort of a random pre-merge to mid-merge young woman who's beautiful in a bikini. Like I feel like one of them could have showed up and filled that spot if that had happened. Yeah, exactly.
[00:59:08] Because then you can portray someone like Jessica. It's like she flirted her way out of the game just like Andrea or whatever. So yeah, I could definitely see that she fills that role for casting. But yeah, very much surprised by how much more there was to her game.
[00:59:22] And I'm glad we are giving her her due here. Someone that I have heard talked about for a little bit as, you know, someone I would like to see again is Alan Ball. I think Alan drove everyone kind of up the wall in the moment
[00:59:35] where I think the first episode is called like I'm not crazy, I'm confident. And it was quoted by Alan when he just goes absolutely bananas in the first episode, where, again, he accosts JP and Ashley at night being like, oh, are you scheming with each other?
[00:59:52] You have an idol. Show me a strip search. Take off your pants. Show me you don't have an idol. He goes into a bit of a diatribe at tribal council as well, which I think in the moment kind of led people to believe,
[01:00:02] oh, maybe Katrina is not going to be the one to go. She still ends up going. And for someone that causes much fireworks as Alan in those first couple episodes, it's a little surprising that he ends up kind of basically idled out of the game
[01:00:14] and actually kind of outdone by Joe in being such a big showman at tribal council in the process. Unfortunately, for those that are interested in seeing, you know, maybe a season of former athletes coming back, Alan did say in his quarantine questionnaire,
[01:00:30] I think the first year off the show, I probably would have returned now. Not so much. I just don't think I'd want to be gone for that long again. Well, it's not as long now. So something to consider. There you go, Alan. Yeah, I don't know.
[01:00:44] Alan, for me, it was someone who I remembered that he had this kind of blow up thing with Ashley and JP. And I remembered it being silly and kind of based in nothing. But then I asked myself, we've sort of interrogated survivor editing.
[01:00:59] Perhaps this portrayal of Alan was not actually accurate. And I was like, no, it does seem like he was kind of doing this on purpose. But he says repeatedly, he's like, I know there's nothing going on. I just want to cause a little chaos.
[01:01:12] And being like, by the way, they're a power couple. I just want everyone to know it. Pay no attention to the actual power couple in Ben and Chrissy. Right, exactly. Yeah, he was just like, all right, I guess let's just see if this is anything
[01:01:22] and try to like shake something loose from JP. Literally. Oh, boy. Well, speaking towards the other four briefly again, I don't want to necessarily broad brush, but Rourke, I absolutely love her. She's, again, a fantastic person to talk reality TV with.
[01:01:36] I think unfortunately, from an editing perspective, she like Jessica goes in her first tribal council, gets pretty swap screwed. And I think unfortunately, it's a little unmemorable because of that. Patrick is a big character, but I think much like Joe
[01:01:49] is somebody that could kind of live in this season in his wild three episodes. And it's not necessarily somebody that I would want to see come back for a second try. I would much rather see Alan's chaos or Dr. Mike's chaos and Patrick's chaos.
[01:02:03] And then Simone and Katrina, unfortunately, they both seem like lovely people. But I really do think if you look back on this season, they are probably two of the least remembered and conveniently enough are the first two boots from it.
[01:02:15] Yes, I would be very interested to know if Katrina has the fewest confessionals of any first boot in Survivor history, because I don't think she had any. Yeah. Considering that it was basically like, oh, she's lumped in with Chrissy and we're going to vote Katrina out.
[01:02:27] Yeah, they were like, that's the mom squad. And then apparently talking to Chrissy after the season, she was like, no, that was just like a thing they said to give a reason. Yeah, exactly. Well, we have a lot of reasons to give, Lindsay.
[01:02:39] And so the time has come. So you talked about your ever growing short list, but let's turn it up a little bit. So the good news is we have up to five people to put on here. Let's talk about maybe a couple of communally agreed names.
[01:02:53] Chrissy is on the list. Yeah, Chrissy has to be on the list. No doubt. I think there was a it's in the back of my mind that there was like an R.H.A.P. survey, something where it was like, who should come back from season 35?
[01:03:04] And Chrissy was like number one with a bullet. So even the fans want her. So let's let's put Chrissy on the list. Why don't you offer up another name here for discussion? OK, can we pretend that Devon is open to playing survivor,
[01:03:17] even if it's not blood versus water? Or are we taking him at his word that it must be blood versus water with his mom? You know what? No, I know that I've been taking people literally. But a that was said seven years ago.
[01:03:31] And to your point, like I think this is different than people like you who says I would only do it if it was a charity season or Ian saying I would only do it if it was the last season that gave away a five million
[01:03:42] dollar prize that I just think in the moment, maybe Devon was somebody who wanted to bring someone else who loves survivor in his mom along for the ride. But I do think if we do live in the Shangri-La where he gets an offer
[01:03:54] for a survivor, 50, I think it's just such a momentous occasion that he couldn't say no to it. And this is maybe again, and maybe with the next person, I'll be suggesting putting more of the wish in wish list.
[01:04:05] But I can't not take the opportunity to vote for David Pinto here, considering how much of an underrated player he is in the retrospect of Heroes, Healers, Hustlers. I agree. I think we really, really need to see Devon again.
[01:04:16] Let's see if he can do some more incredible moves. He's so good here that Hinky Vote, I think, sets up a lot of moves in the future. This is an important person. Let's bring him back. How about his fellow hustler in Lauren?
[01:04:28] You know, I think we made the case that weren't an actual thing. There's a chance that someone else or maybe a couple of other people could get cast over her. But again, I'm taking this opportunity to be like, let's put her on the ballot.
[01:04:40] I would be intrigued to say because I would imagine that Elaine is going to make the ballot as well. Who sort of outperforms here? And I just want to give the community an opportunity to fall back in love with Lauren like we did seven years ago.
[01:04:50] Yeah, no, I think that is a no brainer. Everybody loved her so much and watching it back. I completely understand why. And I remember liking her myself, liked her a lot again. Yeah, let's put Lauren on the list.
[01:05:02] OK, so then I feel like there are a couple of other names we could go about here. There's there's Dr. Mike, there's Jessica, there's Ali. Is there anyone you feel like really good about either from a
[01:05:14] production perspective or a desirability perspective that you want to put on here? Yeah. So in terms of my actual large shortlist, I have Desi, Dr. Mike and Ali as my remaining three people that I think we should discuss.
[01:05:28] Jessica, I think it's great, too, but I don't think that she's maybe she can be a wild card. Please vote her in. I'd be very happy if people express that. Don't yell at me, though.
[01:05:37] Yeah, so I think those are kind of the three that I would like to discuss. Do you think Desi is like, who should we leave there in challenge land? Yeah, I'm going to leave.
[01:05:44] I would advocate to leave Desi off for now, if it turns out in the interim that either this is groundswell of movement or it turns out that Desi herself is like, no, I want to do Survivor. Please let me back. Then maybe I would consider it.
[01:05:57] But you will hear from Chappelle about this. Oh, absolutely. But any excuse to talk to Chappelle is a good one. I am definitely good with Dr. Mike. I feel like out of those remaining three people, Mike probably stands
[01:06:07] the best chance of getting asked back considering how big of a character he is. And yeah, I go back and forth on Ali. I think that Ali would be somebody that from a production perspective would probably be the least likely out of these five.
[01:06:21] But then also speaking to, again, the quality of why we expanded in the first place, which is like, here are some of these players who never got the chance, and especially for Heroes, Healers, Hustlers were kind of lost in the sands of time a little bit.
[01:06:32] Ali is somebody that could be a very interesting premerger to bring back. Yes, I completely agree. I think she, again, is another one of these ones. It's a bit of a question mark. She has a lot of untapped potential. Still young, still great.
[01:06:45] I think she could do a really good job. So I think Ali, to me, seems like the right person to round this out. OK, let's do it. So, yeah, we ended up expanding to five and we made good on the five right now.
[01:06:57] So the following five people with their ages will be added on to the shortlist. We have a runner up, Chrissy Hoffbeck, 53, our fallen angel, Devon Pinto, 31. The guy he got rid of in Dr. Mike Zahalsky, 50 years old.
[01:07:11] We have, of course, one of the one of the fan favorites of the season in Lauren Rimmer, 42. And then finally, we have one of our premerge queens in Ali Elliot, 31. Last but not least, Lindsey. Now, some of our other players have dabbled into these categories already.
[01:07:29] But is there anyone from this season that you would want to see on another reality show besides Survivor? So I was trying to think about this ahead of time. And I was like, I am so unfamiliar with most shows.
[01:07:40] However, I did have the thought, how funny would it be to put Lauren and Patrick together on The Amazing Grace? Oh, my God. Team Red Hair do care. I mean, that would be incredible because Patrick, again,
[01:07:52] he was the one that seemingly would step up and be like, Nope, I played baseball. I know how to do this. And Lauren's like, I played what center field for all these years and nobody is regarding me for it.
[01:08:01] So I think it makes for the perfect kind of toxic, but like sometimes entertaining dynamic of the guy that insists he knows he can do everything and the woman who's like, No, please. I could do this too. Just give me a chance.
[01:08:15] And obviously, Desi just put her on the challenge forever because she's a queen. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, listen, maybe maybe she would not want to necessarily do that, considering again that it kind of seems exhausting to network and especially again to to deceive and backstab.
[01:08:30] But also the challenge proper is all about who you know and maintaining those relationships. So I don't know how much Desi would actually have to backstab if she moved on to challenge proper. True. Yeah. Only if she wants it. If she wants it, give it to her.
[01:08:42] Let her have whatever she wants. And put Jessica on as one of the medical staff on. So, yes, like, but no offense to Dr. Will, I think it would be fun to just have like a random alum show up
[01:08:52] as one of the doctors when someone has a bad fall, a la Cole. Yes. And what a ray of sunshine on the actual show. I think she's quite delightful. So like, yeah, let's let's have her there to brighten up the sad times. Well, this was absolutely delightful.
[01:09:05] Lindsay, tomorrow we move ahead with a newly bolstered wish list. But the question is, will the five be applied to Survivor Ghost Island? Again, another odd season of the show that is going to sport this big titular twist that looks back on the past seasons of Survivor
[01:09:24] and kind of replicates past seasons of Survivor and that we have in this case a duo rather than one power player steamrolling their way to the end of the game. But of course, causing the most dramatic final vote in Survivor history, the first ever tie vote.
[01:09:40] Lindsay, I'm intrigued from your perspective. Who would be on your short list to come back from the cast of Ghost Island? All right. So I feel like you're slam dunk is going to be dumb. He's probably going to be definitely in the conversation.
[01:09:54] I think Kellyn would be someone great to talk about. Speaking of road to reality, let's talk about her. Yeah. I don't know who else is even on that. Laurel should probably should be there. First tie breaking vote. Well, we're going to talk about them all.
[01:10:08] All 20 contestants is I will be joined by the purple pants badass himself and someone who is occupying a slot on our ballot currently in Bryce Isaiah. Considering Bryce and Wendell's relationship, I am really intrigued
[01:10:21] to see what he has to say about Wendell, about the cast of Ghost Island. Maybe he'll have some choice words to me about the Desi of it all if word gets back to him. But regardless, he and I are going to be talking about it tomorrow
[01:10:33] and certainly let us know your thoughts. Was there anyone that we left off the list that should be brought back as a wild card? Please sound off in the comments for now. Lindsay, this was such a great time.
[01:10:42] What would you like to plug for the people out there? Most of my various podcasting endeavors have wrapped up, but you can still catch me talking about Futurama on the podcast of tomorrow. And there's a whole back catalog of stuff about BoJack Horseman
[01:10:55] that Mike appeared on several times. BoJack Horseman, so you can go check that out if you want. But otherwise, this is it. Where are you in Futurama at this point? We have about six weeks left in the original series run, and then they keep bringing back new seasons.
[01:11:09] So they are. And then people are like, what are you doing? You only have one job to talk about this. I was like, well, in fact, I have a real job and this is very much not my one job. But anyway, it's fine.
[01:11:19] So, yes, we are closing in rapidly on the Devil's Hands episode. Well, you are truly a hustler in every way, Lindsay, when it comes to creating this content. So thank you for taking the time to talk with me today about heroes versus healers versus hustlers.
[01:11:31] Of course, we'll be back tomorrow with Bryce Isaiah to talk about the cast of Survivor Ghost Island. Until next time, everybody, take care. Bye bye.