Survivor 50 Wish List | Ep 34: Game Changers with Rob Cesternino

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[00:01:10] Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Survivor 50 Wishlist Podcast, an off-season series where we're trying to figure out who could and should come back for the upcoming season of Survivor 50. Here we are talking about the last non-winner returning season of Survivor, period.

[00:01:29] And who knows? Maybe Survivor 50 will be the next instance of that. So on paper, we'd have a lot to look back on in terms of who are the people they brought on and what was the general theming that they used. That's the good news.

[00:01:43] The bad news is it happens to be Survivor game changers. What I would say is one of the oddest themes, not only in Survivor history. Oddest was Blood vs. Water. Maybe it's close though, a few years off. But in reality TV history in general.

[00:01:57] But of course, I'm not alone. That melodious voice you just heard is someone who has been joining me for a good amount of these returning seasons. Actually, though, not since All-Stars. We had Stephen come on for Heroes vs. Villains. We had Peridiam on for Cambodia.

[00:02:10] But Rob, Sister Nuno, it was your turn again at the ship wheel because there is a shipwreck theme to game changers. Something maybe we should have saw as a bit of a sign in hindsight.

[00:02:21] But here we are, a game changer to the medium itself, talking about Survivor game changers. Yeah, Mike, thank you for having me back. Very fun to get to talk about all this stuff with you again. Incredible job that you've been doing.

[00:02:35] What a fun summer it's been to go through all of this. And, you know, looking back as like we've talked about, like, you know, my Survivor career earlier and we got into that certainly more in Survivor All-Stars.

[00:02:51] Looking back, I do think that my best chance to ever play a third time, I think, was here in this season, Survivor game changers. OK, so I'm so glad you mentioned this because I didn't want to necessarily put the cart before the horse too much.

[00:03:11] But in the research I do, especially with these returning seasons, what we like to do is go through the cast, talk about what was sort of the mood at the time, why were these people picked, etc.

[00:03:21] And then I usually like to go through a list that at least the Reddit detectives have compiled as to people that were considered or cut, declined. I happen to see that on a list of people considered for Survivor game changers that allegedly one Rob Sesternino declined the offer.

[00:03:39] Can you confirm or deny this? Yeah, I can confirm it. So it was, I think so. I remember it was probably like January 2016. Right. Because I would have filmed that summer in 20. Yeah, I remember they called me and my younger son Anthony had just been born in November

[00:04:04] of 2015 and they called me and, you know, Stephen had just come off of playing on Survivor second chances and they and they just had Stephen back. And like I had to run into like a Survivor producer and I remember them saying to me, hey, we got fish back.

[00:04:25] We're going to get you like, OK, it's time to time to pants both the know-it-alls and hide his pants around his ankles for a lot of right. So it's like, OK, sure. And I think that that was at a point where, you know, like any future reasons why

[00:04:47] Survivor production might have been not as happy with Rob as a podcast hadn't happened yet. And so it really feels like that that would have been I think they were like, as we'll talk about, maybe grasping for straws on some people. And so they call me.

[00:05:03] It wasn't like, hey, this is a sure thing. But they did call me and I kind of feel like had I thrown my hat in the ring and said, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. I'm in that.

[00:05:14] I really think that this was probably if it was ever going to happen. I think Game Changers was probably going to be it. When you were given the call, were you told any information as to what the theme might be? Was it just an availability? Yes or no.

[00:05:29] Just an availability of that they were doing. Again, I really don't remember that they were doing another All-Stars and I don't remember much more than that. I don't know what what I thought at the time it was going to be or even leading up to it.

[00:05:45] What what they like, I feel like that second chances had been so popular. I think they were looking to bring people back again. And that was that. And so, yeah, my son was two months old. My wife would have killed me.

[00:06:02] We really it's been a challenge where we don't live close to a lot of family. And so, you know, we really have, you know, just like, you know, when our kids are young, you know, we really did not have a lot of help.

[00:06:18] And, you know, Nicole was working at the time. Like it's just like I do not know how we could have pulled it off. Yeah, the stars weren't necessarily aligned. And I'm sure also in the moment, I mean, we're going to talk about this, that they do

[00:06:30] a returning season a year and a half after doing a previous returning season. And so at that pace, you probably think and especially the way the 20s were going right where you basically had some form of returnees in so many of these seasons back to back.

[00:06:43] You think, oh yeah, there will probably be another chance to get asked back on whether it be a hybrid newbie returning or maybe even an all returning. And then we see where the rest of the 30s go.

[00:06:53] I think when the number what I have said in the past is don't lose my number. But I think that was a pass for me. Well, let's talk about this season in general. That did go exactly because what I do. Mike, may I because this is a season.

[00:07:10] Do you have another hat that you're going to pull out? No, we've we've brought back many legends to the game. And so to honor another true legend of the game. How many severals of dollars did he pay you to do that?

[00:07:27] Got some I got some Jalinski merch recently. OK, nice. Is your first time repping it on pod? Yep. Yep. All right. Well, the Jalinski is the limit when it comes to what makes a game changer.

[00:07:40] And yeah, I mean, especially looking at the meta of all this, we are at a time in Survivor at the point where this is occurring, where when something works for the show, they almost immediately repeat it. Kagaian works.

[00:07:53] So they do basically spiritual sequel in World Apart and then it's literal sequel in Korong. Blood versus Water works. They do it immediately again in Sanwandel Sor. Cambodia was a big deal. I talked about this with Peridium. It was despite the fact that we had so many

[00:08:08] despite Peridium said it's overrated. Exactly. Though I think he even said at one point that overrated can still mean if I think it's number five and you think it's number one. Yeah, no, I'm just I'm teasing.

[00:08:20] Yeah, but I think that Cambodia was like went over like gangbusters at the time. And also it was the first. I just gave you didn't listen to that podcast. I think Peridium's point, which is a good one.

[00:08:30] I feel like that the ones that hold up better on a rewatch are probably ones where there are more like personality and comedic moments as opposed to ones that are more game, game, game. Yeah, right.

[00:08:42] Where, you know, the outcome you're sort of looking for the things that you might not remember. And so I think that the show was looking to strike while the iron is hot and say,

[00:08:51] oh my God, well, it's all returning season, which we hadn't done since Heroes versus Villains went so, so well. Let's go back to the well immediately. And as a result, we get survivor game changers.

[00:09:02] And we talk about this all the time, especially with these themes in the 20s, and especially with the things we're going to get into in these seasons coming up in the 30s when themes still existed that for the vast majority of survivor,

[00:09:16] they are going to cast first and then basically figure out a theme from there. And sometimes it relates to the cast, and sometimes it doesn't. Nowhere is that more clear to be candid than survivor game changers.

[00:09:28] And it was quite a treat, Rob, to go through some of the preseason stuff where my heart goes out to Jeff Probst to a certain extent of him just really trying to spin some straw

[00:09:38] into gold and explain why certain people who were brought on for one reason or another define a game changer. Game changers probably was a weak title for the season. You know, going back to when we did the top 40 countdown during 2021,

[00:09:54] I did a podcast with future survivor Asia Welch and then Grace Leder. We did this for survivor game changers. I think on that podcast that we were looking at the people like what should the theme of this been?

[00:10:08] And I think it was inspired and I stand by it. Survivor game changers should have been called legends and losers. Yeah, I mean, that was a little bit of what they were working with. And we saw a bear out a bit with the casting, though.

[00:10:22] They didn't go all the way, as I think the rumor was that it was supposed to be like people who made the merge and the jury versus premergers. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I had not ever heard that.

[00:10:32] But I feel like that you have like some like some of the all time greats like you could cast a legend season with half the people that are there and the other half are WTF. How did they? Why are they even in a second season of survivor?

[00:10:49] So that's interesting, because what I would say is I could understand as we'll get into some of the pics, like why in a blanket returning season they would get brought back. Either they had made an impression for one reason or another on a recent season, or maybe

[00:11:03] as we consistently speak about on these returning season podcast, they check a certain aesthetic box that casting always likes to go for. It's just again, I talked about this as well with Steven, right, that we were speaking

[00:11:15] about when it comes to putting someone like Candace on heroes versus villains. It's less so about the label of, oh, Candace is one of the five greatest heroes or villains that's a woman in survivor history and more so, hey, we want to see Candace back and you

[00:11:28] just throw her on the season and then just sort her wherever it was. It's also interesting because there was also a good amount that was talked about behind the scenes about how the casting for this season.

[00:11:39] I mean, it is far and away the widest net that survivor will cast with its cast. To your point, we are having so many different odds and ends of survivor represented all under the skies of what makes a game changer, which I think like Jeff kind of described

[00:11:56] as like some people have made big, bold moves. Some people have played more subtly. It's basically whatever you want to make of it, but that they have either changed the game or the game has changed them maybe in some way, shape or form.

[00:12:10] And the result we get is mixed. God bless Jeff. Like he's good. He's going to try, you know, he's never going to like, listen, whatever. Just like he's got he's gonna really try to spin it. Yeah.

[00:12:23] And I think especially there was a lot of talk, including from Jeff himself at the time, about how CBS and survivor maybe we're not seeing eye to eye in some regards when it came to casting.

[00:12:34] Of course, the big story that Jeff has told before is that CBS was the one that was really pushing to bring Ozzy back for a fourth time. Jeff didn't necessarily need to see it. Jeff was talked in the freezes and being like, Ozzy just can't win.

[00:12:48] Like he has this this something in his head, this break from actually being able to win the game. And so I think he was fine, kind of like writing Ozzy off into the sunset after South Pacific. And then was there a postscript to that? Was he? Oh, yeah.

[00:13:01] He then say that. But then he was glad that they brought him back. Yes. Which is one reason why Ozzy ultimately made the wish list is that he does come back and say, I was wrong. I am so glad that Ozzy was on the season.

[00:13:11] There was that it may not reflect that. I mean, on the other hand, Jeff said that we had to really push CBS to put Jeff Farner back on the show. So the results we get are this cast of a survivor game changers, which as we'll get into, yeah,

[00:13:25] run the gamut from people from season seven all the way through to season 33. And, you know, it's definitely something that they were trying to infuse the theme into as well. This is, of course, as we found out very recently on one of our summer survivor podcast, the

[00:13:41] season where you can't tie the bow without it going to rocks. It's not no more. I really forgot about that. They were trying to create kind of like a hyper gamey returning season on the level of Survivor Cambodia. And listen, I think from a certain respect, they did.

[00:13:56] I think we've talked about before how Sarah Lucina ends up playing a very impressive game, especially in the postmerge. But I think a lot of that is largely obfuscated from a bit of what are we doing here aspect when it comes to a lot of this season, unfortunately.

[00:14:10] Yeah, can't wait to get into it. All right, well, let's do it, shall we? Let's get into the cast of survivor game changers. And I divided up a little bit into in true game changers fashion, a bit of odd hats here

[00:14:22] that we are going to try on at the Aberdash. Right. Okay, exactly. Not odd us odd hat. I'm going to start with our pre heroes versus villains returnees, which represent four represent two winners and two returning favorites.

[00:14:37] We have, of course, Sandra Diaz, Chyne coming back for the first time since heroes versus villains, which is a little surprising. I think a lot of us at the time were saying like, Sandra, you're two for two right now. Why press your luck?

[00:14:50] But what I think is interesting is that if you look back, Rob, I think a lot of people may have gone higher on Sandra's game after watching her in game changers. Yes, Sandra's game changer season.

[00:15:02] I really feel like that it's a season where while the results like did not go her way, like I feel like that it's a season that only enhances her legacy, especially for, you know, a two time winner to come back and go out premerge.

[00:15:17] You probably say, oof, but I feel like that just the very aggressive game that Sandra ends up playing here, I think that some people could argue that it ends up being some of Sandra's finest work.

[00:15:30] It's a little bit kind of like Ethan in Survivor All Stars where it's not the you know, the winning game. And I think that Sandra even shines here more than Ethan does in Survivor All Stars.

[00:15:41] But it's a very bold game, which is really going to sort of end up being, you know, this new second version of Sandra that we see post the anybody but me era, Sandra. Yeah, that's the thing is, I think post heroes versus villains, despite having two million

[00:16:00] dollars to her name, I think a lot of people regarded her gameplay as largely passive. And Sandra's gameplay from here on out has been incredibly active that yes, she is someone that will sit back and like let things come to her to your point, anybody but me.

[00:16:15] But it definitely seems like and maybe it's because now that she knows she has this target on her no matter what, right, that now she has nowhere to hide. She has officially become a legend, the first two time winner in Survivor history.

[00:16:28] She knows she has to get out in front rather than have the cars back her over. And so we see her immediately start getting out Tony, we see her do the whole sugar sabotage to pick JT and Michaela against each other. It is.

[00:16:42] And this is like, you know, saying a lot for Sandra. What have Sandra's most entertaining games from the season, even though she does last half the season? Of course, next to her is Sari returning also. I know Sandra's coming back for a third season.

[00:16:55] Sari and Ozzy will be our two four timers here. What are your thoughts about them? I mean, Ozzy, as mentioned before, has one of his, I would say, most eventful seasons in like him leading the Savai tribe, getting voted out twice and returning twice and going

[00:17:12] out as the fallen angel. Were you surprised to see him back for a fourth time on Game Changers? I don't think I was surprised to see Ozzy end up coming back. I think Game Changers itself is probably Ozzy's least eventful season. Oh, far and away.

[00:17:29] His four times playing the game. But I think that at this point in time, I think that this is probably like a coup to have Ozzy back for the first time since South Pacific. So you're very excited to have Ozzy here. And what about Sari?

[00:17:47] Because Sari again laid waste to the competition in Exile Island in Micronesia and a little bit of an unceremonious exit. She does get idled out by the fourth person we're going to talk about basically in heroes versus villains. But I do think she is one of these people.

[00:18:03] And I think, again, this is why it makes the discussion so fruitful and has been since 2017. Is that like when you think Game Changer, you think somebody like Sari feels? Yeah, this was a great spot for Sari to end up coming back.

[00:18:15] Of course, Sari has the iconic games in Panama and then again in Micronesia and then has the one that doesn't go her way in heroes versus villains. And so I think it was probably important to survivor and important to Sari to give her

[00:18:33] like that chance to that not have the beat that be the game that she goes out on where she goes out just a couple of episodes into the season. So she ends up here and has such an interesting, unique game.

[00:18:46] I don't think she goes to tribal council before the merge. Now, and that's really if you're Sari, I mean, you couldn't come up with a better recipe. Yeah, that's a get out of jail free car because that's usually due to her and she's not a

[00:18:59] slouch in the challenges. But I do think compared to the people around her and as she gets up there in age, I think it certainly is something that puts her the most in danger.

[00:19:08] And especially she starts on the tribe with JT and she's talked about as somebody who could be an early target before the merge and then to have that. And then now Sari gets to the merge and then people are not looking for her at all in her

[00:19:23] seasons once she hits the merge. And so she had a real opportunity here and, you know, very tragic circumstances with the whole advantage get it though. Again, if you ask her like she thinks it love it less as a tragedy trooper.

[00:19:40] Yeah, she is the person who has taken it the best out of the millions of people that watch Sari go out by advantage. Get it. Sari says, ah, no, I'm not that bad. Mama fees, toenails. That was wrong, which goes to show how bad those toenails were.

[00:19:56] You know, if advantage get in did not make her flinch, but the kayak did. That says something absolutely about Big Brother punishments, though. Let's talk about the punishment Sari face for a brief period of time as she was on a

[00:20:10] tribe to your point, Nuku for a brief portion of the game with the fourth person that we bring back from pre-Heroes vs Villains JT. And this is a really interesting trajectory for this guy because he goes into token sheen's

[00:20:27] and quite literally plays the perfect game wins unanimously, wins the final three immunity challenges, doesn't get a vote against him, wins the fan favorite award, probably one of the most spotless winner arcs in Survivor history. Heroes vs Villains.

[00:20:43] He comes in with a little bit that Sandra energy, honestly, of like, all right, listen, I know I'm a hero, but let me get a little devious here. And so he's going to engineer a couple of interesting things in the premerge.

[00:20:54] And then he ends up becoming sort of the mascot of this hero wide big move to try to bring Russell over to their side at the inevitable five five split with a letter in tow. And JT is sent out because of it.

[00:21:09] He is nominated for I can't remember. Does he win the the Dominion? Yeah. So James officially loses his reign as the best survivor ever. So then to have him come back here 14 seasons later, you know, I in the moment I was excited

[00:21:25] about it because of this idea of redemption of like, OK, JT is really going to show that he's capable of not making these massive blunders involving idols. And to say I was proven wrong would probably be an understatement.

[00:21:39] Yeah, JT, I think benefits a lot from the edit when things are going well. I think that when things aren't going well, I think you could certainly show the flaws in his game.

[00:21:50] I mean, this was exciting to have him get a chance to come back after heroes versus villains. It's been diminishing returns as well for JT. And I always love when you clock that in this countdown when we go through these people

[00:22:04] that it just every time they go out, it keeps getting worse. And I shudder to think what that could look like for me. But yeah, this was cool to have JT back. Yeah, I think it was really fun, especially looking at these four.

[00:22:16] Right again, when you think game changers, it makes sense. Sandra first two time winner, Suri, someone that has like influence an entire group of people to come onto the show and get off the couch. Ozzy, maybe the most prolific challenge performer and someone that basically broke Redemption

[00:22:33] Island in South Pacific. And again, JT, the first person to ever play a perfect game. If you're trying to take Game Changer by the letter and the law of people who like made history, it makes sense that these four would be on here.

[00:22:48] OK, I get the sense this is kind of like that drawing of the horse that you like to bring out where the horse's head is pristine so far. All right, well, let's move on to, I don't know, the neck, the upper haunches, as it were.

[00:23:03] So this group, these are the people who played post Heroes vs. Villains and pre Cambodia and had not returned yet. OK, so we have Andrea, Malcolm, Tony, Sarah, Sierra Dawn Thomas and Haley Ford.

[00:23:19] So two we have the two pairs from Caramoan, a pair from Cagayan and a pair from World of Art. Let's start with the Caramoan pair first, our three timers in Andrea and Malcolm.

[00:23:30] Wherever you want to start, Mike, I got a lot to say on more than a few. Yeah, so let's start with Andrea and Malcolm here. The the brother and sister turned. They don't even have the chance. Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:42] Did they find some justice perhaps over the course of Survivor Game Changers? Andrea, unfortunately, continuing her reign of maybe not appearing on the best survivor seasons when it comes to, unfortunately, the quality, not not about her involvement whatsoever,

[00:23:57] but she obviously made a big cut in Survivor Redemption Island, comes back for Caramoan, has like a pretty respectable seventh place finish, but is voted out with an idol in her pocket. Game changer. I mean, she's the first woman voted out with an idol in her pocket.

[00:24:13] And does she her placements are what, like six, seven, eight in her seasons? Is that five, seven, eight? She did technically come back and kind of leapfrog. Got it. Got it. OK, so. I've told this story before on the podcast.

[00:24:29] I maybe not recently, but at the time, Andrea was hosting on for the people dot com. I'm not sure. I think that she might have been hosting the Survivor After Show. Andrea was had a and still has like a really great hosting career.

[00:24:50] And she was doing a survivor segment in New York City. And I knew of the rumors of this returning player season and the people that were on it. And I had the chance I went I went to with New York City where they were filming this

[00:25:09] show, and this was all pre-COVID and they did a whole big taping. And I said to Andrea, Andrea, what the hell do you need this for? We're like, why do you want to go? You're going to go on Survivor.

[00:25:22] They're going to get somebody in here like like you. You're out of the casino. You went on Survivor. You had your fun. You got a good gig. You don't need this. Think about it, Andrea. She's like, OK, all right.

[00:25:37] But then she heard her castmates say this is huge. I needed this. And she got jealous of it. Yeah, no. And she has, you know, correctly. I was looking out for, you know, I adore Andrea.

[00:25:52] Like I was in no way like in my in my opinion, this was good advice. And Andrea still continued to do her hosting and did not affect her hosting career.

[00:26:05] I was also afraid for Andrea that I was worried that she would also not do well to come back. I thought that she was probably seen as a player who is, you know,

[00:26:21] I don't say sneaky, but like, you know, she's a bit of like a player who is just, I think, respected, but maybe a little feared, especially coming off of loyal. That's what you learn from Boston. Rob, the second time that she played and some of the circumstances around,

[00:26:39] she voted out Francesca. And like I thought that maybe Andrea might have been coming in with like a little bit of a target on her back. And I was like, look, you got a great thing going. What do you want to come back and do this for?

[00:26:52] She then, you know, after well after the season was over, on many occasions, it's like you said, don't go back. And also I felt horrible because Andrea, who has lost a sister, she got like her she had the loved ones visit.

[00:27:07] And she talks about how what a big deal survivor is to her family, which I did not know any any of that when I tried to tell her not to participate in a third survivor season. Andrea loves survivor.

[00:27:19] She shows up when people are playing fan run survivor games. So, Andrea, I hope Andrea plays. I hope you put her through Mike on previous season. So yeah, well, well, we can just go through briefly here. If I had suffice it to say,

[00:27:32] would love to see Andrea play again in the legend season. Well, Sandra, Sari, Ozzie, JT, all on the ballot. Andrea also on the ballot. She was one of the the non boss, one of the two non Boston raw people we put through from Redemption Island.

[00:27:45] So yeah, to your point, she said as well that she is she is great playing whenever wherever survival will need her, which is maybe a reason why. She doesn't care when she ended up getting cast here as well. It's like, OK, maybe if you're casting theme first,

[00:27:58] does she fit this necessarily? Maybe not so much. But this is, you know, a young woman from the 20s that we can always rely on to like bring some active gameplay as well. And Andrea did do that to a certain extent here in survivor game. Yes.

[00:28:12] And she started her survivor career so young, like I'm sure she's still at a great age to play survivor. So we'd love to see Andrea come on through. We talk about Malik. Oh, we got to talk about it. I talk about Malik and of course, my famously. Yeah.

[00:28:32] So this is the season of Malcolm where I got caught a little flat footed with my pants down and had a certain reaction to the chaos of Malcolm's. Can we set this up also? Because I kind of feel like that either people are listening to this podcast

[00:28:47] and they know all these stories and they're and they're smiling because they know the stories or that we have a lot of people who like this is when did this air? This was what? 2017. Air OK, so the spring of 2017.

[00:29:00] And maybe they didn't even watch survivor yet at that time and didn't know the broadcast. I guess. But what is it? The fourth episode of Survivor Game Changers. We are doing the live show in the now defunct Caroline's on Broadway and my outlived Caroline's. Yep.

[00:29:20] And we did the live show that night. And there's a viral Twitter clip that went around of when the the everybody is in horror. It's almost like that clip from Survivor Gabon. It literally is. That is survivor Gabon. Yeah.

[00:29:36] And everybody is horrified that one of the fan favorites, everybody's winner pick Malcolm is being shockingly voted out. And Mike Bloom is just pointing to the screen and smiling. And I'll add laughing to that. I'll be generous. I was I was munching a little bit.

[00:29:55] I'll admit you never want to go full months, but I must attack. I mean, listen, as I said on the Philippines podcast that I did with Jake, I love Malcolm. I actually love him as a character. I love the fact that, again, he has this.

[00:30:06] I love him as a person, too. Yeah, he has this bro look to him, but I think he has this this fun bookishness ambitiousness to him that obviously carried over very much into Kara Moen

[00:30:15] with the feisty underdog that he was trying to plan all of these big moves. I just love chaos a little more than I love Malcolm. And it was absolute chaos.

[00:30:24] I also I get I get a really bad, like visceral response to when there is a big reaction around me like I was overjoyed to see how much people were reacting in unison. Like, isn't that awesome?

[00:30:37] Doesn't they say something about how great the survivor community is that we're all in a room together and we're just watching this absolute calamity play out in front of us? And everyone slow motion car wreck. And everyone is just gasping and their heads are in their hands.

[00:30:52] And it is just it's a miraculous sight to witness, probably even more by punctuated by the fact that this clown is in the front row going, oh, look at that, everybody. And I'm tapping people on the shoulder being like, oh, look at this. Look at this. Yeah.

[00:31:05] So we deserve to get Malcolm in his Jimmy T era, don't we? Yeah, he's starting to get up there as well. And he is indeed part of the ballot. But it makes sense. Again, Malcolm, you can say from the game changers argument, he's the one that spearheads

[00:31:21] the three amigos tribal council, which has been proven both in the moment and in retrospect to not be as seismic of own. But I would also say three amigos might be when we look back in survivor history might

[00:31:31] be one of the most like one of the first market examples of a live tribal council. Yeah, that's a good point. Malcolm, what's Malcolm like? Thirty seven. Let me look it up. He's close to that. I believe Malcolm is thirty seven on the dot. You got it.

[00:31:48] Pretty good. Yeah, so he's still he's still doing well with that. He did say in his quarantine questionnaire that he would be not an immediate yes as he was in this era, but also this is a little bit of a case, though, to your point about

[00:32:01] bringing back three after heroes versus villains like is this how we want Malcolm to bow out of survivor in these circumstances being the victim of JT not like this. Malcolm, come on. Yeah, exactly. Let's talk about someone who did have that unfortunate outcome and did come back and

[00:32:19] maybe can show to Malcolm like, hey, if you come back, yeah, after a disaster showing in Game Changers, you might just become a winner of Survivor two times over. I was so excited to see Tony. Yeah, this is kind of bittersweet that we got Tony back.

[00:32:35] It's only a couple of years after Kage on. Yeah. So that survivor Kage on was what? Twenty fourteen years later. Yes. So three years later, finally, the king is back. And I was so excited and so crestfallen to lose Tony because the first two episodes were

[00:32:52] all in one night. It was a two hour premiere because it was the big they're building up to. I think it was the 500th episode of Survivor. And so they decided to put I believe from an airing perspective, Game Changers might

[00:33:03] be the shortest season because they also did a two hour emerge episode as well. And so they only did it for like 12 weeks. Yeah. So yeah, just a bummer that we didn't get, you know, even a week of like, oh, Tony made it through night one.

[00:33:18] So very sad. It turns out the spy bunker not as good as the spy shack or the future spy nest. Yeah. You know, the sequel can sometimes let down a little bit, but it's the very rare case of the third installment of the trilogy definitely rising above expectations.

[00:33:37] And yeah, I mean, this is also a case where I don't know. This almost feels like in Tony's arc as a survivor player, a little bit of the necessary point in his journey where like he came onto the beach and is and Sandra tried to get out

[00:33:50] ahead knowing that she was seen how she was seen. Tony maybe did a bit of the opposite. I mean, he still was Tony. He still immediately started running as soon as he hit the camp at Mana.

[00:34:01] But at the same time, I think everyone just grew super wary of Tony. They had just seen what he had done three years prior, and they did not want to allow that chaos into their lives.

[00:34:11] And so it was after Sierra was voted out, it was an easy way to dispatch the king. But then allowed him to go into winners at war with this sort of blemish on his record to say, no, I'm not a perfect player.

[00:34:22] Don't worry, I'm going to build a ladder. I'm going to do nothing. You can trust me. Yeah. And I think that was one of the reasons why Tony was able to gain a really good foothold early on that paved the way to his second win. Yeah.

[00:34:33] Well, let's talk about someone who always accompanies Tony in all of his running me because this is maybe when we start getting into the case of like, it makes sense why they were cast for a returning player season,

[00:34:45] but maybe not a season called Game Changers, which again proves the point of the cast first theme second because Sarah Lucina was a really big force in the half season of Kaga Yan that she was in.

[00:34:57] Obviously, she had that storyline with Tony that eventually became cops are us in the swap tribe. She was the lone person left over from Braun on her camp and that put her kind of in the

[00:35:07] swing vote position to the point where she was the president at the merge. And then things go where they do. Right. You know, Sarah plays a really great game. I just one last thing on Tony's just like this was a fun reminder that Tony's going

[00:35:23] to be on the traders. So I forget that. It was like, oh, this is exciting. And Tony's also on the ballot, too. So yes. All right. Well, yeah, Sarah, I don't think I had a ton of hype.

[00:35:34] I feel like the story about Sarah here that she says, like the first time I played like a cop now I'm going to play like a criminal like that was her tagline. It's like, OK, like, we'd love to see it. But let's go.

[00:35:50] Yeah, basically, it was that she got too confident and she got too trusting in people. She thought that she had all the votes clapped so that she could go anywhere she wanted to to Kagaian only to realize that the votes were on her.

[00:36:01] And I believe Sarah was my winner pick in Survivor Kagaian. And this is one that I actually kicked myself of like, oh, I think I'm sure I remember like who my winner pick was for Survivor game changes. I'll find it when we go through the list.

[00:36:16] It'll come back to me. But this is the one I like. Oh, that was that was easy money right there. Yeah, I mean, I think that it made sense that she much like we talk about with a lot of these returning seasons, right?

[00:36:29] She did respectable her first season, made it to 11th place, but not so much that she comes in with this big reputation as a massive player. She had some basic skills of what to do, but I will say she surpassed even those expectations.

[00:36:43] Again, I cannot speak highly enough about what Sarah was able to do. Now, look, didn't make her leave the game with a lot of friends? Not necessarily. But this was a case where Sarah was able to make good with a lot of social capital that

[00:36:55] she accumulated and spend them wildly, mostly on advantages. Did Sarah get through for Survivor Kageyan? Sarah did not get through. And maybe at the point this is being recorded, you know, I'll be told elsewhere that Sarah does want to come back.

[00:37:10] My impression is that, you know, she almost didn't go out for winners at war because she had just felt so mentally detrimented from what happened in Game Changers. She was really affected by the fact. She's done two seasons of the challenge since then.

[00:37:25] Yeah, but but that is I mean, as I sure one of your co-hosts can tell you, the challenge is like night and day compared to playing a survivor. And so, I mean, Sarah being, you know, the fallen angel as well.

[00:37:36] I think a lot of talk that Jwai and I had to is like, what more do we need to see of the Sarah Lucina story? I see her. I think her story is complete.

[00:37:44] And especially I think the last part of her story was the was the friendship with Tony and where does that. So yeah, I feel like as a as a character, I feel like her story is done.

[00:37:53] But, you know, I'd be interested to see like I don't get the sense that there is a clamoring to see Sarah 4.0. Now, I did not detect that as of yet at the time that we are recording this podcast. Also, I did see who you picked for Survivor 34.

[00:38:09] Rob is your winner pick and spoiler alert. We've already talked about them. Oh, who was it? You picked Ozzie. Oh, OK. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder what I was thinking. I think I can listen of why why I picked Ozzie.

[00:38:23] I guess I guess I thought maybe the average would be too distracted with everything going on. Maybe maybe you thought it was like, well, it's been 11 seasons and he hasn't won yet.

[00:38:35] So you feel like all the other big players like Tony, Sari, Sandra, JT are going to get taken out over him. And then maybe he'll do what he always wanted to do, which is just challenge beast his way to the end and take home the victory.

[00:38:46] Yeah, I'd have to go back and listen to my thinking there. I'd be interested to hear. All right. Well, now we're thinking it was very clever. Yeah, well, now we really need to crack into these two. Sierra Dawn Thomas. Yeah, Ailee Ford.

[00:39:02] So first off, you know, we spoke about this in Cambodia, the surprising amount of season 30 players that were on the ballot and maybe the discrepancy between production loving worlds apart, maybe the fandom not so much. So we bring back a couple of people from worlds apart.

[00:39:20] I do not think anyone would have expected it to be these two where Haley ends up becoming the first juror on worlds apart. And Sierra Dawn Thomas does make the finale, but I would say is definitely the most under edited person in the end game.

[00:39:38] Yeah, I remember that they did the survivor prices right within a year of this. And that was really when the fan favorite Sierra Dawn Thomas was born and fan favorite game changer, Sierra Dawn. Game change. Yeah. Fan favorite game changer, Sierra Dawn Thomas.

[00:39:54] And I don't think that people were expecting my she probably goes further than people would expect her to. But yeah, it's it's kind of wacky to have her here and call her a game changer. And then Haley, who's a fun personality and is a lovely person.

[00:40:15] This was even more bonkers that she ends up here. I mean, the person that would agree with you chiefly would be Haley herself. I do recall there was all the voluminous preseason coverage done. Haley's like, why am I here? I saw that that's logo. Is that me?

[00:40:32] Am I a game changer? How did that work? And I think, again, speaking to what Jeff was trying to do in the preseason, he told Dalton Ross Haley to me is the dark horse to win. I think Haley has everything you need to win this game.

[00:40:45] I think she's a great student of the game. Really good with her words. Haley was labeled a no collar and in some ways lived up to it. She didn't pull the trigger in ways that I think she wishes she could.

[00:40:54] But she's absolutely a game changer and someone that I think if she can get out of the gate and get past some of the older school players, I think she will shock people with how she plays.

[00:41:03] She did offer to get naked at the tribal council to prove she doesn't have an idol. I believe that was also one of you. Was that one of her first or one of her last tribal councils? And I think that might have been the tribal council.

[00:41:14] She got voted out. Yeah, the merge. Right. When it was between her and Michaela. And if that's not a game changing move, I mean, arguably, then you would bring back the winner of your season who infamously got naked on a tribal council. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

[00:41:27] But look, to be candid, I think both of these picks are checking a box. That we have talked about consistently going back to the first all-star season, which is this desire to sometimes have young, beautiful women on a survivor season that maybe especially of recent seasons. Exactly.

[00:41:47] Especially from recent seasons. And again, like Sierra did make it to a finale. So she was around for a while. Yeah. Also, you know, this is maybe like a little bit of an issue here is that we brought so

[00:42:03] many people back, like in the late 20s between Kara Moen was and we've talked about, you know, fans versus there were not a ton of not a lot to mine there from the fans that, you know, we have a couple of favorites there.

[00:42:19] But then in Blood vs. Water, we had half returnees and their loved ones. So we really had and we brought back a lot of people already from Kageyan for 31. So, yeah, there wasn't really that much ripe news. And then Second Chances was all returnees.

[00:42:40] So we end up with a couple of like wacky first time players here, I think just out of necessity of there weren't that many other options. And the reason why we also have, I think, you know, probes comments on record about

[00:42:53] Haley being a game changer is that I should mention in a different world, Sierra Dawn Thomas is not on this cast, because if you remember, the rumor is that Natalie Anderson, before she ends up going to winners of war and becomes like the highest average finisher

[00:43:10] in survivor history, was supposed to be on this, which does make sense. I forgot all about that. What happened? She she got a concussion. Yeah, she got a head injury. I think it was. Yeah. And so she was not able to be medically cleared.

[00:43:23] And so Sierra Dawn Thomas rolled her way into the game like a barrel. OK, so she was an alternate. She was an alternate. Yeah, which I does make sense. You know, when I'm thinking about alternates that have come back for other returning seasons,

[00:43:37] there are people that, again, pop a little bit, but not necessarily in a way there. You'd be like, yeah, they've got to be on there. But it's someone you want to keep in the repertoire.

[00:43:46] I mean, I don't understand, again, why Haley would necessarily make it onto a cast over Sierra, but maybe she impressed them a couple of years ago when they were in Nicaragua. Yeah. Are there any like notable snubs that we're not thinking of from that didn't get game

[00:44:02] changers that like in hindsight, like I'm trying to think of like who are the people from so probably not anybody that was like, especially when we're talking about the women. So I mean, I feel like almost everybody came back from Khakian. Right. Yeah.

[00:44:19] Then and then in I mean, one, they'll, sir, I don't know. I don't know. Like Jacqueline, I like I don't know. Like who? Like, yeah, I don't think you're going to bring back Missy or Baylor. And then in Worlds Apart, they they already. I don't know.

[00:44:37] I don't know. They people. Yeah, they want to do Shireen for a third time and maybe Mama C. Should have. Yeah, mom, attorney. Spot. That's exactly what I was thinking. Mama C was considered, but for whatever reason, she was cut at the last second.

[00:44:50] And so I personally feel like and maybe it was an age thing. Maybe they felt with like especially the older school players they were going bringing on that they want to bring on a bit more younger blood to balance it out.

[00:45:00] And that's why you go with Sierra over a Mama C. But that's that's the slam dunk choice to me. Yeah. So suffice it to say neither Sierra nor Haley on the ballot, but Mama C is. OK.

[00:45:12] So this next group that I want to get into are people that are in the group of seasons we've talked about, but they appear more recently in some form on Survivor Cambodia. So we have two people that were on Cambodia and Jeff Varner and Sierra Easton.

[00:45:29] But more interestingly, Rob, we have two people who were not voted on by America two years ago. But production said we still want to see a back Troy Zan and Brad Culpepper. OK, where do you want to start, Mike?

[00:45:44] Oh, well, let's let's start with the factors we know here. Let's talk about Varner and Sierra Easton. And look, certainly Varner made a name for himself in a very infamous way on all of this. But I was not surprised to see him make this cast.

[00:46:02] And maybe I was again, if you just look under the level of game changer. I think we forget around that time production loved Jeff Varner. They love Jeff Varner. And, you know, and I too, like, you know, somebody who came into Survivor when I did,

[00:46:18] like I was super excited to meet Jeff Varner, who was like always like a mischief maker. And I think that that's probably more fun from, you know, far away than when you see it up close.

[00:46:34] But, you know, there were definitely some red flags, I think, coming out of like Survivor second chances with Jeff, especially when you like go back and listen to some of like his exit press and things that he was talking about from people that he was not getting along

[00:46:52] with in that season. But I just think that the temptation there was that he's somebody who's always going to stir up trouble. And it backfires spectacularly on production here. Yeah, 100%. And so again, should not have been cast on the season, obviously will not be considered for any

[00:47:16] future seasons. But I do think especially the way that like you hear probes talk about Jeff Varner is like, to your point, a little sneaky, a little underhanded. And even in Cambodia, where he only lasts four episodes.

[00:47:29] But I do think he was a big narrator as a part of that as well. He was someone that was very good in the confessional, you know, special. He was doing stuff like cross-tribal communication as well, trying to pull that off in the middle of challenges.

[00:47:43] Yeah, he gave them a lot on the TV show. But you know that his, you know, desperation. Yep. New no limits in Survivor game changers. Yep. We saw what he can do when he was cornered and it was disgusting. So moving on to Sierra.

[00:48:03] Sierra, you know, has a respectable middle finish in Cambodia. She winds up 10th or ninth, I think. Yeah, right ahead of Wigglesworth right behind Stephen ends up getting idled out. But I mean, what why she's brought on here is what Jeff Probst momentically yells when

[00:48:19] she's revealed at the Millennials versus Gen X reunion. She voted out her mom. So I heard you and Uncle Keevy talking about Sierra the other day. It got me a little pumped up for a Sierra 4.0, especially the idea of like in a future

[00:48:32] Blood vs. Water season of her playing with with her being like a legacy. Yeah, because it needs to be like when Eric came back for fans versus favorites and turn from a fan to a favorite. Yeah. So I think that Sierra could could be a returnee if not.

[00:48:49] And like I've talked about other pockets, I would love to see Survivor 50 be more of a second chances and then them do more of a legend season a couple of years down the line. But yeah, I I would be interested in intrigue to see Sierra play again. Yeah.

[00:49:06] So now we talk about the two guys that are left off. Hey, left off of the season and in retribution, they become two of the final three of this season. So starting with Troy's and I mean, I talked about this with Peridium and made sense why

[00:49:22] he was on the second chances ballot. He is definitely one of the more well-remembered characters from One World. This is my island probably being like one of the most remembered moments from that season for better and for worse. But I got it. People came back from one.

[00:49:41] It came at a really good time where it was about to undergo like a bevy of returning seasons or like to your point, we got to pull them from somewhere. Here's this young, hot cast of Survivor One World and Troy's in is the exact definition

[00:49:54] of that, I suppose. But I'll admit in the moment I was not particularly pleased. I didn't like toys and a lot during One World. And for me, it was this attitude of like we didn't bow you on to the season. Stop trying to make that happen.

[00:50:07] And unfortunately, maybe that kind of bore out in the edit where he does make it to the finals as like a dyed in the wool survivor fan is something he wanted. But it was a little bit like at what cost to your edit.

[00:50:18] But I think that his edit in Survivor One World where like he is such an antagonist to what Kim is ultimately trying to do. I think he's like, well, he's pretty well liked by the people who he ends up playing with in Survivor Game Changers.

[00:50:39] Like, I think that there was not a lot of conflict around Troy's and where I think that his first season really bore out that like, oh, he can't get along with anybody except for, you know, Tarzan. Yeah, it's a good point.

[00:50:50] Yeah, that he was kind of built up to your point is kind of one of the conflict causers, especially once Colton left in One World. But he was more of the calm than the chaos.

[00:50:57] And I don't know if it's more of like an overcorrection of like, hey, my problem was that I was like too antagonistic. And this time I'm going to walk it back or this was a little bit more of the real Troy's

[00:51:08] and and that the whole thing where Kim ended up, you know, stabbing him in the back that that really set him off. But, you know, Troy's and really sweet guy. But I don't think we need to see the Troy's and three point out. I would agree with that.

[00:51:26] I don't think we need to click, click him through on your ballot because I think that we sort of answered the question as well with Troy's and right of like, OK, what would he do in different circumstances? What would happen if he made it to a finals?

[00:51:36] And the unfortunate answer is that he gave this like kind of heartwarming speech at the end of like, listen, I know I'm not winning, but thank you all for letting me play this game. Yeah.

[00:51:46] Well, let's talk about his partner in crime here in Brad Culpepper, because I will admit I am definitely someone who the first time I watched Blood vs. Water, I was not a fan of Brad Culpepper, but have immensely grown to appreciate the entertainment value that he brought.

[00:52:02] Remember the Game Changers finale that Brad Culpepper came out like with like this like little tiny like mustache that he shaved right before the reunion happened? Because remember, I think Jeff still did the little like walkthrough like here we are,

[00:52:20] it's Studio City, but we're going to make it look like the jungle for some reason. Here's our the pre jury. The jury and here's the everyone in the finale. And like I think Brad Culpepper still had full facial hair.

[00:52:30] And between that and the winner reveal, he shaved it down to go full video store clerk Joseph from Big Brother 26. Yeah. But then he came out to do press and I think he didn't have anything. He was like, what are you talking about? I don't have a mustache.

[00:52:43] And there was also the infamous potato sack that he wore to the final tribal council. Yeah, well, Brad Culpepper really showed a lot of his personality in his second time out, which I'm grateful for.

[00:52:52] This is an example of to your point earlier, why maybe you bring back an antagonist and see what else they could bring. Because again, I think Brad was kind of personified back in Blood vs.

[00:53:01] Water as you know, the straw that was stirring the drink, the guy that was bossing his tribe around and then was kind of overthrown by the people underneath him. Here he's showcasing his love of interior decoration. Again, he's rocking all these weird fashion and facial hair trends.

[00:53:17] And then he also finds himself in a situation where he's on the outs and he basically has to win out. And he is the most recent example besides Chrissy of someone tying the all time immunity challenge record.

[00:53:29] Yeah, I mean, he does far better than anybody could have imagined. But I don't think we need more Brad for Survivor 50. In my personal opinion, I would love to see Brad on like some other like Brad and Monica on The Amazing Race.

[00:53:44] I'm here for like, I feel like that. I don't know, maybe if not the traitors, I feel like that out of all these reality shows that pop up with random reality TV people, I would definitely watch Brad on another show. Yeah, Brad has that personality.

[00:53:58] I think that again was I mean, how many jokes do we still make about Culpeper math about four into five, four into nine and him messing up the number? Like his legacy lives on FU Brad Culpepper.

[00:54:09] He's the recipient of one of the best memes that comes out of the 20s of a survivor. So I do think that Brad Culpepper people have come around on him, especially recently.

[00:54:19] And he is on the ballot because he has expressed that he would want to come back again. I do agree. It might be a bit of a long shot when push comes to shove. But I agree.

[00:54:29] I think you'd be interested to see just put him on HGTV, put him alongside Kim Spradlin. Actually, you know what? Have them do that show together. Yeah. And, you know, I think that the Culpepper sons, I feel like are of a certain age.

[00:54:43] You know, if you ever did like another blood versus water and then you wanted another legacy of like have Brad come back with like one of the kids. Yeah, I think we just do Survivor the next generation. Have everyone play with their children.

[00:54:55] I think it's a fun idea. Did we not get a test balloon back in Big Brother 25? Did we not learn our lesson? OK. All right. Last group that we are going to here, and I did not realize this until we lay it out, Rob.

[00:55:08] Six people over a quarter of this cast came from the two seasons prior to Survivor Game Changers. Yeah, we really. It was the story of the season, the co-wrong for the co-wrong for.

[00:55:21] And I will admit, listen, I think co-wrong and Millennials versus Gen X might be, you know, up there with some of the best back to back seasons in Survivor history. So I'm not mad at it on paper.

[00:55:30] It is pretty wild, though, that again, you got four people that appeared in the first 20 seasons of the show and six people that appeared in the last two seasons of the show. Yeah. And I remember they filmed this like days after Survivor co-wrong had aired and months before

[00:55:51] Survivor Millennials versus Gen X had aired. Right. So it was a lot of introductions. I know that Zeke and Michaela have told stories about how like they were voted out and then they were basically immediately asked, like, hey, would you want to come back again?

[00:56:03] They're like, oh yeah, sure. And so I think Zeke had like from the jury of Millennials versus Gen X to starting Game Changers maybe had like four or so weeks of downtime, which is just wild.

[00:56:16] But let's go through these people, starting with someone who pinged very much on the radar after that co-wrong finale that came right into her perception on Survivor Game Changers, but does make it to the finale and finish respectively in fifth place. But Aubrey Bracco.

[00:56:32] And again, we talked about these people that we thought were going to be in danger early on. I think Rob, you and I and a lot of fans thought Aubrey was dead to rights. Yeah, she had just come right off of Survivor co-wrong and she ends up

[00:56:45] being this person who was she should have won. And especially like at the time there was a lot of like fervor of like that Aubrey was robbed and she was going to be the she was the person that should have beaten Michelle and one survivor co-wrong.

[00:57:00] But, you know, Aubrey, just like looking back at her survivor career. And I know you saw that we just recently interviewed Aubrey for talking with T-Bird. You know, Aubrey really did leave a mark. I mean, she was a game changer.

[00:57:15] I think that way that you held her legacy carries through to this day when Mariah mentions her favorite player is Aubrey. It apparently causes Q to target her. Yeah, I just think that she was sort of like really, you know,

[00:57:27] the first of like a different archetype of a woman who came across who was fun and smart, but also quirky, but also could like hold her own in the challenges. And I think that Aubrey is just a really fun character.

[00:57:43] And I definitely could see Aubrey on a legend season down the road. Yeah, we did not add her to the ballot at this moment because basically we ended up replaying the conflict of, OK, we have one spot left. Do we add Aubrey or Michelle?

[00:57:57] And we felt like Michelle, given the fact that she's appeared on reality TV more recently and I think is more emphatically for going on the show than Aubrey, she got the nod here. But Aubrey will get another chance at Edge of Extinction

[00:58:12] will probably get on as a wild card as well. And I agree. I think that Aubrey is somebody who has also changed a lot, obviously has become a mother since she was mother back in 2016. If she is up for it, I think could be really interesting,

[00:58:26] especially when she is not coming through this series of seasons where 32, 34, 38. She is known as like this big strategic presence. Yeah, I, you know, Aubrey playing for a fourth time is not like something I have to see, but I definitely would be intrigued. I agree.

[00:58:46] Let's talk about the person that she ends up sitting next to not only in but also in fifth and fourth place at the reunion of this season. Let's talk about Ty, because Ty again, game changer. I don't know, maybe him denying Scott Mike.

[00:59:01] He got the first see a prize. I think that's true, especially in retrospect. He's maybe the biggest game changer of it all that he changed the way that fan favorite awards were given out for a brief period of time.

[00:59:11] But also, Ty definitely fits the bill as well for this guy had returning written all over him. He was one of the biggest characters of the season. I talked about this in the co wrong podcast as well.

[00:59:22] I don't think he's remembered as much, but it's also a big player. Yeah, that season as well. Someone that was willing to find idols and play them or not play them. And one particular is he's going to find what three more in the course of this season alone.

[00:59:36] And also just one of the most unique personalities that we have ever seen. And unfortunately, I don't know if again, it's just circumstances or maybe the fact that they just came off of their season airing.

[00:59:46] But Aubrey and Ty, despite the fact that they make it to the finale yet again, much more understated edits compared to co wrong. For sure. Yeah, Ty, I think that you can easily like forget about him. I feel like throughout the middle of Survivor Game Changers,

[01:00:02] I feel like he has a big like beginning and certainly like a lot in the finale. But yeah, Ty, kind of a quiet run in Game Changers the rest of the way. I don't know if they need tie for Game Changers. I'm not so sure.

[01:00:22] I mean, I think specifically if we look at these six and maybe Haley and Michaela as well under a different theme, if we look at those as second chances to I think it absolutely makes sense to put him and Aubrey and these next two

[01:00:36] that we're going to talk about on. I just think it's a matter of like, I think in that moment, yes, the Michelle versus Aubrey debate was the main thing to take away.

[01:00:44] But again, Ty was such a fan favorite that he got thousands of dollars from a random celebrity. And so I think he was a slam dunk to return at some point in time. I think maybe in retrospect, actually, I think, you know, he would probably say yes,

[01:00:58] because this was the last time he could possibly return. But I do imagine if he was given the option of like, hey, come back for 34, come back for like 40, he would probably choose 40. I just feel like that we got everything there was to get out of tie.

[01:01:13] He had such a like a complete story. I feel like in Survivor, co-wrong that I don't know if there was like another level to his survivor story. Well, for what it's worth, Ty is on the ballot.

[01:01:27] So we will see if people agree or disagree with you about possibly seeing a tie 3.0. OK, next up, Debbie and Debbie is a case of again, I think somebody that would fall into this category of she's a character from the season that we want to see back again.

[01:01:43] It just so happens to be under a season called Game Changers. You know, for newer Survivor fans, I believe that Debbie was like the female Q. It was somebody who just created like so much in the season

[01:01:57] that you wanted to see what they were going to say next. There's a lot of like this person for real. Is this is it like what are they doing? And then that they were such a slam dunk, Debbie to come back.

[01:02:10] And it doesn't go great the second time around. She does have one of the best instances of I'm pissed until Liz Wilcox comes around. Yeah. And so and she's talked about it like we did a talking with T-Bird with her. And I think she talked about that.

[01:02:28] She was going through a life change in the same way. I think Lil has talked about also. And so maybe Debbie wasn't quite herself all through Survivor Game Changers, but that this is not a pick that you could second guess too much, even years later. Yeah.

[01:02:49] I mean, I think Debbie also sort of proved why she was cast in the season. Right. Sometimes these people come on and pull the Wentworth and surprise you. Sometimes people come on and play a completely different way to act like JT.

[01:03:02] Debbie came with the label and did exactly what she was going to do. Right. But there was a lightness to Debbie in Survivor. Call wrong that we really don't see here in Game Changers, except in the presence of one John Cochran. Exactly.

[01:03:18] He's the one to bring it out of Debbie when she is fortunate enough to be exiled and go visit him on the yacht. So Debbie was left off the ballot. I know she has expressed the desire to play,

[01:03:29] but I also think to your point about how we kind of have become unintentionally rich with these kooky characters, the wackadoodles, if you will, in the new era. I think, you know, Debbie is someone that will quote unquote inspire other choices

[01:03:44] like a Nora, like a Carolyn, et cetera, that I think we're fine seeing those for the second time than Debbie for the third time. Yeah. Debbie had a cameo on the Opry talking with T-Bird. Oh, really? How's she doing nowadays? It was quick.

[01:04:00] She had the parrot on her shoulder and. Oh, Debbie's gone full pirate now. Oh, well, she's perfect for Survivor Pearl Islands. Will they bring that theme back? Well, we talk about a third time for Debbie.

[01:04:12] Let's talk about a guy who came on for his third time on a CBS reality show. Yeah. Beast mode. Cowboy. So Caleb Reynolds shows up on Survivor Co. Wrong as one of the beauties and nearly gets Judy chopped that out of the game,

[01:04:26] but out of existence when he undergoes honestly, probably the closest anyone has come to death on Survivor during that absolutely staggering scene. And Survivors get him back out here. Well, I think it was, again, this manner of like,

[01:04:41] I cannot believe this is a guy who put his body on the line to the point of extreme exhaustion for salt and pepper the way that probes explains it in his army with Dalton. He says, Caleb, that one baffles me.

[01:04:53] How would you ever say he's not a game changer? He was willing to risk dying to win. That's a game changer. There we go. Cut print. Maybe Big Brother game changer. I think Big Brother law changer in terms of restraining order.

[01:05:10] Yeah, I mean, when Caleb went out in Co. Wrong, I think they put the card on the screen. It's like he Caleb has made a full recovery and is looking forward to playing again. Yeah, it was only a matter of time that they would play that.

[01:05:27] This was a matter not unlike Mike Scoopin honestly, where I was like here was someone who had some momentum going and Caleb didn't attend a tribal council before he was medivac. And so it was a matter of we did. He didn't even really get to play the game.

[01:05:40] And then he goes out in this incredible show of television that puts his life, obviously on the line and that he makes a full recovery. It's clear they want to have him back again. I think it was just a matter of timing that the next returning season

[01:05:54] happened to be only a couple seasons afterwards and happened to be now. Ironically, I suppose Caleb is one of these people on this slide that maybe fills the title of game changer the most, considering that the story is

[01:06:06] from Cambodia onwards, they had to provide a source of potable water 24 seven to make sure nobody died from heat exhaustion. Yeah, that's that's a good idea. Yeah, I agree as well. Let's finish off with two of the people that got brought straight from Millennials versus Gen X.

[01:06:22] They they sparkled in the eyes of the producers while they were watching them and said, you want to delay your ticket back home for a little bit? Stay in Fiji. Go play another season. And it's interesting because, listen, people at the time, I think,

[01:06:36] knew that these two would be involved in this season in some way, shape or form. And so I imagine they were probably watching Millennials versus Gen X with that lens of, OK, what are they going to do to be a game changer?

[01:06:48] And look, your mileage may vary, but I would say these are definitely two of the standout characters among a cast of standout characters in Millennials versus Gen X. For sure. I mean, I think that ends up being probably a little bit more surprising that Michaela

[01:07:02] ends up going out where she does in Survivor or a play. But I would also say that I feel like that's Michaela is a bigger character in Millennials versus Gen X than she is in game changers. Oh, definitely.

[01:07:17] I mean, Michaela is somebody who kind of always has her back against the wall. If I remember correctly, she was a target both at the first vote and at the first merge vote.

[01:07:24] I think it was just maybe almost the exact opposite of what they did with Russell Hanson Heroes versus Villains, where it's like we don't really know you. We're going to get rid of you immediately because we kind of have relationships with other people.

[01:07:35] She does have that really nice scene with Sari where the two of them connect. And she, of course, does have everything going on with JT. Well, that's where I think that Millennials versus Gen X Michaela. That's a little bit. Yeah, the moment with JT was a good one.

[01:07:49] And then but she doesn't find the advantage. Right. And she goes out in one of the most confusing tribal councils ever. Right. But Michaela, like from watching her, like on the challenge and specifically the challenge USA, this last one, I mean, she is such a big personality.

[01:08:08] Yes, I do think that her coming back to survivor, I do think she would bring a lot to a season. And I completely agree. And so did Ali Lasher. That's why she's on the ballot. And I will admit it fully was because of the challenge USA season two,

[01:08:20] where even in her first challenge season, she was one and done. It was very much. It was basically what they tried to do in game changers of like, you're a new person, you're scheming too much. We got to get rid of you.

[01:08:29] But she really entertained me in so many different ways in USA, too, that I really would like to see her back for time number three. And then for Zeke, I'm pretty sure Zeke has said that Zeke does not want to play survivor again.

[01:08:42] But and understandably so forget survivors, Zeke was blocked by the survivor Instagram. Oh, good to get Zeke unblocked from survivor Instagram. Yeah, let's let's start with that. And makes so much sense why Zeke is someone that would get brought back.

[01:08:59] I think Zeke is obviously as someone who came from the world of comedy and writing, a really fun storyteller. He obviously stands out as the guy who came in with the mustache and the Hawaiian shirt and makes fire in that first episode.

[01:09:13] But also he was one of the gamey people of the season. As yeah, I mean, Zeke loves reality TV. I remember I met Zeke in I think it was 2012. I went to like a blogging conference and met Zeke there.

[01:09:32] And Zeke wanted to write blogs for Rob has a website dot com. And so that was my first encounter with Zeke, who just loves love survivor, loves reality TV, great sense, great sense of humor that we're lucky we got Zeke. Yep.

[01:09:48] For the year that we had him, but I don't think Zeke is coming back. Nope, definitely not. Zeke's life is fine. He is now married to his wonderful husband, Nico. And so he is doing well, though. Who knows? As you said, he's a fan of reality TV.

[01:10:01] So maybe he'll get thrown onto another show like worst cooks in America as an example or the traders could be on the traders as well. So yeah, so these two end up coming back to back. And it does bring up an interesting question.

[01:10:14] Rob is that, again, more than a quarter of this cast is made up of people from the last two seasons before Game Changers. Now, that's the biggest punch line of all, Mike, that we could spend all this time talking

[01:10:27] about who should come back from Survivor and, you know, it ends up being all people from Survivor 47, 48 and 49. So it's a good question, though, is that obviously 50 is a big number and a lot of people have

[01:10:40] been talking about, you know, will they cast in that wide and try to get someone from the first season on? Or do you think they'll do it in a way that they've done Cambodia and Game Changers and

[01:10:49] say, oh, yeah, we're going to really try to pull from the last five seasons of the show majorly. I feel like second chance, I feel like is a good is instructive to look at where you

[01:11:02] have like, OK, Kimmy and Varner who came back from when Kelly Wigglesworth and so like, OK, let's get a couple of throwbacks, but more of it is going to be heavily recency biased. Yeah, so we shall see.

[01:11:19] But this is trying to look into the secret sauce that was casting for Survivor Game Changers. I can read off, Rob, including yourself, a list of players that were allegedly considered and or cut for Game Changers if you'd like. We'd love to. All right.

[01:11:34] So let's talk about the cut people first. These are people that were considered but ultimately decided not to get let on by production. We have from Survivor Tagayan Alexis Maxwell, former Rehapcon guest. A true game changer. Mama C, as mentioned before. Yeah, baby.

[01:11:53] Chelsea Meisner, finalist from Survivor One World. One of the only people from one world they didn't bring back and somebody who went on to have like a very good reality TV career. Yeah, she said if they don't want me on CBS, I'm going Bravo's way.

[01:12:06] Of course, there was a story about how I believe Danny Boatwright was contacted but only wanted to do all winners and she lucked out in that regard of six seasons later. John Cody and John Mish are blood versus water. John's both considered but ultimately not brought on.

[01:12:21] OK, I think it makes sense because again, from like a male perspective, as you were kind of talking about with this season and carries over a lot into all stars where it felt like they wanted the people that they got.

[01:12:31] And so there wasn't a lot of room for guys to kind of wiggle their way on. Yeah, it's almost like and Kiva mentioned this in blood versus water, but it's almost like, OK, you have your fantasy team and you got your first like your big draft picks.

[01:12:45] And it's like, all right, I got to fill out the rest of the roster here. Yeah, exactly. So they end up sort of getting benched or sent over to another team in the case of Chelsea. Jonathan Penner. Yeah, allegedly. No, I can confirm this.

[01:12:57] I remember back in that spring of 2017, I remember like getting texts from Penner and maybe I don't know if we spoke on the phone, but I remember him basically saying that, yeah, they were they were calling.

[01:13:12] They were asking about if he wanted to do it or not, and that we were talking a little bit about whether or not he wanted to go back for a fourth time. Did he want to in that moment?

[01:13:21] I know he has said now that he's fine coming back. I honestly I don't remember if he said he wanted to do it and they cut him or if he ultimately backed out. Well, here's the rare Kogai on returning.

[01:13:32] That was not LJ ends up getting cut and LJ, I think, is in line with Sarah of like, again, game changer. Maybe not, but somebody from Kogai on that I could see returning.

[01:13:43] So yeah, I just feel like they were like grasping at straws a little bit here of like, you know, they're making a lot of phone calls. Like I think if I if I really was like, hey, like this is it. I'm ready.

[01:13:55] Of course, Marty Piambo, Mr. Farty himself. I know Stephen was making me sad the other day when he talked about with the heroes versus villains that, you know, probably Marty Piambo. We're never going to see him again. He's on the ballot.

[01:14:10] Look, we'll we'll try to make it happen from a perspective. But yeah, that that dose of reality was was unfortunately not very welcome. But someone who is put on the ballot that from a more recent season, Mike Holloway was apparently

[01:14:24] in consideration for game changers does make a lot of sense. I do wonder if JT declined when Mike be his direct replacement. Yeah, I remember hearing that he was in the mix for game changers to come back, and I don't remember exactly what the circumstances were.

[01:14:40] Allegedly, Monica Culpepper was considered and cut. Do you think it's a case where, you know, her and Brad did not want to do the same season together again? Do you think I don't know how young their kids were at that particular point,

[01:14:54] but they could have been like a Robin Amber ahead of their time, like a Robin Amber from season 40, not the Robin Amber that I played with. I mean, Monica does end up showing up on the season later on anyway.

[01:15:03] Yeah, unfortunately, after going from the onsite alternate in heroes versus villains, Natalie Bolton is unfortunately cut before even being considered for the cast of game changers. Oh, that would've been fun. A fun spot to bring her back.

[01:15:17] Then, of course, we have again you talk about how Coe Rolling was running hot in terms of this casting pool. Dr. Obama, Peter Baggins, though, apparently considered what? Yeah, that's and it's interesting.

[01:15:29] Kirsten said that she kind of got I mean, this guy was voted off right before the merge kind of had this storyline right where he thought he was the big leader. Oh yeah, it turned out that he gets humbled.

[01:15:39] I mean, I think he could have been fine to come back, but that's that's pretty, pretty wild. Joining Chelsea is her fellow one world finalist Sabrina, who again, we're sort of on the streak of Sabrina being like, I don't want to come back, but you keep asking me.

[01:15:52] So I guess I'll say yes. And finally, someone who does come back for winners at war in Sophie Clark was apparently in consideration. Oh, interesting. Are they cut Sophie? You know what?

[01:16:03] I think it makes a lot of sense because I would imagine and we talked about this more with heroes versus villains that they were kind of casting some pseudo rivalries on. It would make sense to put her and Ozzie on the same season. No. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

[01:16:15] The dragon slayer and the formerly slayed dragon. Yeah, I have a hard time thinking that Sophie is passing at this point in time, but yeah, she didn't decline. She I think she was just considered people who did decline. It looks like Sydney from Korong ended up declining.

[01:16:32] Of course, we talked about this in the Fiji podcast that Earl apparently went pretty far along in the casting process, but ultimately declined due to work obligations. I know that Greg Buist was asked for Cambodia. Apparently they pinged him again during Game Changers, and he said no.

[01:16:48] Both Joey Amazing and Kelly Wentworth felt it was too soon after Game Changers. They waited a few seasons before appearing again in Edge of Extinction. And then there is a rumor that apparently Colleen Haskell was rumored to be asked and obviously declined. How do they know?

[01:17:06] I don't know. These survivor friends, they might have been tracking her landline at the time. They could have found where she lived. Yeah, imagine Colleen Haskell came back for Survivor Game Changers.

[01:17:16] I mean, I think what they like to do with these seasons that they can help it right is like bring on somebody from Borneo for every full return. He sees it. Yeah, I couldn't do it, obviously, in Heroes versus Villains because of Richard Hatch,

[01:17:26] but that's what they intended. Imagine Colleen Haskell was like, look, I haven't had anything to do with Survivor for 17 years, but Game Changers, OK? Put me in. I heard about a legacy cowboy. I'm in. Yeah, I heard about this legacy advantage. I'm in.

[01:17:41] I think we need more advantages in the game. Put me on. Yeah, yeah. So that does it for, oh, and I guess a couple of other people that were considered Abby Maria and of all worlds apart people again, we continue to scrape a little at the bottom

[01:17:55] of the barrel writer here. Apparently, so Kim was considered first boot of Survivor Worlds apart for Game Changers. Wow. Just goes to show that anyone Rob can be a game change. Anybody could be a game changer. OK, well, let's see what they come up with for Survivor 50.

[01:18:10] Yeah, we shall see tomorrow. We move into a really interesting period in Survivor history because Robert, little bit in uncharted waters here. We will have one more returning season, which you're going to join me to talk about in a little bit in Winners of War.

[01:18:25] But Game Changers was the last time that any non winning players could return for a Survivor season. And so we are going to be talking about seasons where basically nobody has come back. And so I think the focus is honestly going to shift.

[01:18:42] I really enjoy a lot of modern Survivor cast, especially in the new era. I think unfortunately for those that like to come and listen to these podcasts and be like, great, this is a person who, you know, got their unjust boot and I want to see them

[01:18:56] come back. They're very underrated. I think this is the period of time when we start to put on the meta hats a bit more and the Facebook hats and we start to say, who are some people that the show would legitimately consider bringing back over?

[01:19:12] These are people that we would want in our heart of hearts to come back. Well, I think this next era that you're going to start mining of 35 through 39, I do think

[01:19:22] that there is a lot of fodder here for people like I feel like the over under here for this next like chunk of Survivor history that I think four and a half people, I think, is

[01:19:35] the over under for how many people from this part of Survivor history will be brought back. So is your assumption that it's going to be 10 new era assuming a 20 person cast? I'd say 10 ish.

[01:19:45] Yeah, I imagine then like five from this group and then five from seasons one through 34 basically. If you had to like lock me in for something, that's what my prediction would be. So we are locked in tomorrow to start off this new stretch of Survivor history with

[01:20:00] Survivor heroes versus healers versus hustlers. No matter what the theme may be, it's a cast that contains a lot of interesting people. Obviously, a unprecedented and game changing in and of itself when in the form of Ben, but plenty of people along the way.

[01:20:16] I'll be discussing it all with Lindsay Wilson tomorrow. It's fun. Rob, I'm intrigued. I mean, again, you talk about going into this much larger pool. Who from this next season would you want to put on your personal shortlist?

[01:20:29] Well, if Chrissy wants to play again, I think that that would be great. You know, Devin is somebody who Lauren Rimmer was somebody who at the time was really and she kind of got forgotten to Survivor history like very quickly.

[01:20:46] But I think that like in the immediate fall out of that, Ryan, I think is somebody who was interesting. Dr. Mike. Again, we're going to have a lot of people to choose from and in the true heroes, healers, hustlers fashion there.

[01:21:01] My and Desi is somebody who when we talk about where like Michaela really enhanced basically her Survivor resume really got enhanced by appearing on the challenge USA. Yeah. So we shall talk about all of that tomorrow.

[01:21:20] And in true HHH fashion, I may have a twist on my sleeve that we will institute moving forward, a la the fire making challenge. Get your flints out, everybody. But you Survivor HHH Mike, my final appearance on Survivor. Wow.

[01:21:35] All right, because you were doing the challenges right before the finale. Look for me in the finale. Yes, I believe. Didn't Jeff Shia like their sister Nino? Their sister doing challenges. I was just a long series of Andrea and Cochran, I believe. Yeah.

[01:21:50] See, Andrea loves Survivor even after participating in Game Changers. She came back and was participating in challenges. That's right. Right out there the season after. So Rob, you brought the fire. This podcast, as always, would only be a brief period of time before we're chatting again

[01:22:03] about winners of war, but anything you'd like to plug in the meantime? Just a big brother. Twenty six, twenty six days in Survivor. Big brother. Twenty six is a lot more days than that. But we're we're cooking. We are absolutely cooking.

[01:22:17] And tomorrow, join us for the summer of Survivor every Wednesday. Yes, myself and Rob and Shannon Gus, we are doing wild and wacky miscellaneous things. And we actually love Survivor Game Changers. Boy, do we have a season for you to listen to? Yeah.

[01:22:30] Check out our celebrity Survivor Brandsteel season where we simulated a season of Survivor Game Changers with celebrity Survivor fans. And listen, the deadlock rule may not have been invoked in the season proper, but it certainly was in this fictional season.

[01:22:45] Check that out, as well as, of course, the Survivor 50 wish list, which returns tomorrow with Healers, Healers, Hustlers with Lindsay Wilson. Until tomorrow, everybody take care. Bye bye.