Today, Mike and Jake O'Kane (@jakeo_kane) discuss Season 25: Philippines![00:00:15] Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Survivor 50 Wish List Podcast, an offseason series where we're trying to figure out who could and should come back for an upcoming returning season of Survivor 50. But today, take that 50, divide it in two, because we are talking Survivor 25,
[00:00:33] Philippines, a season that brought us right up out of what some consider the Dark Ages, a source of light even amidst all that dang rain. Of course, I am not alone here. I am joined by a super great guest, not only a finalist of Survivor proper,
[00:00:49] but somebody who will forever have Philippines etched in his memory, considering that it was the winner of the season that allowed him to win an advantage in the finale. It is, of course, the delightful Jake OKane. Thanks, Mike.
[00:01:03] You know, the advantage didn't go anywhere, but you know, I got. Thanks, Denise. Yeah, I mean, listen, would it not be an homage to Survivor Philippines if like advantages were either not used or came to no use?
[00:01:13] Considering that only one idol was used and no votes were nullified the entire season. You know, it's it's it's the interesting spot. We're coming out of the Dark Ages with Philippines and, you know, onto more idols and advantages.
[00:01:27] But I think this is is is Philippines kind of Survival 46 coded where there's like not no great use of advantages other than the one. Yeah, I mean, I was going to compare it actually to your season, Survivor 45, where it's three tribes, one keeps losing.
[00:01:47] We're bringing back a returning player in a manner of speaking who had a premerge boot in the previous season. There's not that much experience. You have one tribe basically never go to tribal council for the first half of the game and they completely fall apart
[00:02:00] in the form of Tandang and Bello. So actually, I think the call is coming a bit from inside the house. Mr. OKane. Oh, my God. Mike, did I ever tell you how this was my first full season of Survivor? No, absolutely not.
[00:02:12] I think we had this conversation briefly when you were doing what you were doing when we were actually out there. Yeah. Yeah. But I just this this season is all because I saw one world sporadically. Yes. And then Philippines, I just remember opening one of the opening scenes.
[00:02:29] Yes. Zane Knight and Denise talking. Both in their underwear. Your dad, he says. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I run sex therapist and I'm like, oh, my dad doesn't like the show now. So now it's all flashing back to me. I remember that exactly.
[00:02:41] If your dad walk in and be like, whoa, sorry. Whoa, what are you watching? And all these years later, it brought you back into the fold. So let's talk about Survivor Philippines, because you say bringing us out of the Dark Ages and applicable to history
[00:02:54] after the Dark Ages came a renaissance. And we got that kind of in the form of Philippines, where the show at that point had gotten a little stale, even when they tried twist like Redemption Island, like one world.
[00:03:07] The format of Survivor in the game itself had kind of been figured out in the format it currently existed in, which is, OK, it's two tribes of nine. All you need is a day one majority of five and then a three within that five
[00:03:20] steamroll your way to get to the five and steamroll your way to get to the three and hope you win at the end of the day. We saw that especially in twenty three and twenty four.
[00:03:29] And the Philippines really felt like a reckoning in so many ways for the show. First, I would say the cast looked and sounded felt so distinctly different from the seasons that came before, which were a bit more recruit heavy looking for the younger, fitter, hotter types.
[00:03:45] We get a bit more of a cross section here in Philippines. And it's interesting to say, Jake, considering that we are currently at a time where the discourse is very much like, oh, too many three tribe seasons.
[00:03:57] Let's get some variety because of that strategy for the first time in 18 seasons, the show decided that they were going to do a three tribe season. It was something that had not been done since all stars nearly 10 years prior.
[00:04:11] And as a result, and due to the cast and of course, the structure and the story of things, it ends up becoming an incredible season of the show. I mean, I think the return to three tribes did so much for Survivor.
[00:04:23] I know people are a little three tribes out right now, but I think, you know, the fall of Matt saying, you know, it echoes so many of the tribes in the new era that just get blown back very early on.
[00:04:37] And I do think there's there's something that's inherently super interesting about nothing ever went right. It's unfortunate you get to your your dream to go play the game. I think a lot. I mean, I think a lot of that for the tragedy that was
[00:04:55] on. Excuse me, I'm forgetting the tribe name offhand for this season. No, no, no, no. Blue, blue and the tribe, Malcolm's tribe. Oh, that's saying that's saying that's saying thank you. I feel like the tragedy is just encompassed for Russell Swan.
[00:05:09] I know, you know, other people get voted out, but the whole Russell Swan story, I think, is just super, super captivating for the early part of the season. And that can only happen with the three tribe format, I think.
[00:05:20] Yeah. I mean, listen, did it make for compelling strategy? And now we had two tribes basically sit on their hands and or so chaos for the first third of the season? Not necessarily. But yeah, it was almost worth it to see.
[00:05:32] To your point, a fairly unprecedented storyline occur over the first four episodes where, yes, we did have the Oolong situation. But this this slaps differently a little bit. Maybe it was just the sort of high end emotion that came,
[00:05:45] especially in episode four, which is one of my favorite episodes of Survivor of all time. I really recommend people check it out, especially if you feel that the storytelling of Survivor has gotten too samey. Episode four is entirely different from the use of music to silence
[00:06:02] to, of course, the cinematography of like the slow-mo pot smashing to symbolize the chance that Matt Singh had not going to tribal council slipping out of their grasp. It was a really well done arc overall and ended up working out really nicely.
[00:06:17] And like you said, this was certainly not the first or the last time we'll see this happen. But it was the first time that you have somebody like Denise and Malcolm as well, survive and thrive in a way.
[00:06:28] Take advantage of the fact that they are down two to six to six after four episodes and end up becoming two of the final four. It's a really incredible story. And it also happens to impart to the fact that a this is a ridiculous
[00:06:41] newbie cast full of characters that we'll get into. But the other hand, you know, we're still a bit of a foot back in the dark ages, and now we are bringing back returning players. But this is very, very different.
[00:06:53] Back in the day, Jake, this was something that had been very much whispered about as a what if amongst the survivor fans, which are like, hey, wouldn't it be fun if they did a season where they brought back the medevac players?
[00:07:05] Because for the most part, these people were medevac in the first half of the season. All three of the guys that come back here were medevac in episode six before the halfway point of their respective season.
[00:07:14] And so it made things on a little bit more of an even playing ground in a way to the point about the other previously medevac contestant who played on your season in that, you know, these guys don't necessarily know how to run an individual game.
[00:07:26] They don't know the ins and outs necessarily penner a little bit more than the other two. But still, it did allow and especially given the personalities around them, it didn't necessarily allow for a curb stomping the way that coach Ozzie and Rob did in the seasons prior.
[00:07:41] So totally. And I think just the, you know, when you have characters like Coach Ozzie, Rob, and I maybe will not wrestle, but there's this reverence for their ability. Whereas these three guys, it's like, I mean, you know, penner played twice.
[00:07:58] And even if you did want to look at Cook Islands, penner wasn't crushing it the whole time. Like he wasn't seen as someone who is. Dominant in any way versus like, you know, coach gets final four, final four and token seeds or final five, whatever final five.
[00:08:12] And then you have Boston, Rob getting all the way to the end, Ozzie getting all the way to the end of just being physically dominant the whole time. I think there's there's more of an even playing field for the returning players.
[00:08:23] And I think that's what makes it really, really interesting. Yeah. And it's like the newbies were actually like. OK, these people are kind of potentially expendable. That's not something we really saw as much in, you know, fans versus favorites.
[00:08:36] One where we did have this mix of, you know, new players and old players or even in Guatemala. You know, I don't think it's super replicated until, you know, you get edge of extinction when they're like, we don't need these guys.
[00:08:48] But this is I think that dynamic is very interesting. Yeah. Before we move forward with the cast proper, I know that we already divided, but allow me to multiply by two briefly to bring us back from twenty five to fifty because Jake, listen,
[00:09:00] I'd be remiss if we do this with everybody that we bring on as an alumni on this podcast. I didn't just get you on the record in giving your thumbs up or thumbs down as to whether or not you would like to come back for Survivor 50.
[00:09:16] Oh, my God, I'd go back. Has anyone actually said no yet? I mean, I had Stephen Fishback on who is like one of the firmest knows that I have heard much more than his bowels in Cambodia. But yeah, suffice it to say, listen, I'm assuming the sea
[00:09:29] of money has only got you so far and look, that well is pretty much dry, unfortunately. So you got to go for the million this time around. Exactly, exactly, exactly. You know, see it. See, I can't rely on see it anymore.
[00:09:41] No one from Survivor can rely on see it anymore. So, you know, I'd love to go back if I get given that opportunity. That would be a dream on top of a dream come true. You know what I mean? All right.
[00:09:52] Well, let's see if we can add some people today that may be sharing a beach with you in Fiji this time next year. Let's get into the cast of Survivor Philippines. And we start, as always, with our final three.
[00:10:03] We have the aforementioned Denise and then tied for second place. We have, of course, one of our medivacs returning players in Michael Scoopin and Lisa Welchel. And this is another sort of hallmark of this era is that there's these odd
[00:10:18] celebrity castings and sometimes the celebs they bring on are not necessarily fans of Survivor. Sometimes they're super fans. Lisa Welchel apparently was a big fan of Survivor, apparently sent in an audition video. But of course, if you don't know her formerly Blair from the facts of life
[00:10:34] child star finds her way onto the show, only gets outed by like one person due to the generation gap, but makes her way all the way to second place here, which is just a wild thing in and of itself on top of a wild season.
[00:10:49] Also should be noted, Jake, this is, I believe, on average the oldest final three in Survivor history. That is really impressive. I mean. Two of these people are great, just really great. Hmm. I wonder which two.
[00:11:05] Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, I think the cool thing about this final two and then plus another person is that, you know, Denise goes to every single tribal council like there is no other person who's won the game who's done that. Like that's a really impressive statistic.
[00:11:23] And I don't know if that can ever be replicated again. Yeah. Kenzie got close. You know, she did miss out on one tribal council in the premerge. And now in the new era, this like split tribal council situation means you're automatically missing out on one.
[00:11:36] But yeah, I mean, considering that the goal of the game, first and foremost, is to not get voted out. The person who puts themself in the most danger of getting voted out. Now, I believe she won an individual immunity like once, maybe twice.
[00:11:48] But it is still incredibly astounding, especially in that middle stretch of the game when she becomes like the lone new kid in town on Calabar. Luckily, she's able to take advantage of this gender gap. But it is still incredibly astounding. And it's not due to just luck.
[00:12:04] I mean, to your point about that, that lower third emphasis more so on the therapist side of things. Denise has those interpersonal skills where ironically enough, despite being one of the shortest sole survivors, she's able to meet people
[00:12:15] on their level and is able to reason with them and try to empathize and sympathize with them. That makes her then a more reliable person to work with. I think that's what got her Malcolm on the same page early on.
[00:12:27] It's what in that final three vote with her and Malcolm and Russell makes her the one in the middle. Right. It's between Russell's voting out Malcolm. He's not voting out Denise because he feels good about Denise.
[00:12:39] And it's something that's going to bring her into all of this maelstrom of an alliance that happens in the postmortem. So I think it's a really incredible win, even outside of the fact that she went to tribal council in every single episode.
[00:12:53] I mean, again, Jake, you could speak to somebody who did not go to tribal council for half the game. That is a wild accomplishment. It's really that's really impressive. It's so cool because then also not only that, Denise does so well on When Is At War as well.
[00:13:07] I know the edit is understated for her in When Is At War, but it was really impressive what she was able to do. And then something that I want to say, if we can move to Lisa. That's all right. Yeah, Lisa.
[00:13:20] I forgot how much I loved Lisa Welter on this season. She's not someone you might think about as, oh, Lisa is a dominant strategic player, dominant strategic player. Lisa's not bad at this game at all. And the cool thing about Lisa in that I think I really appreciate
[00:13:37] from like a show perspective is that she's such a great narrator in the sense of her emotional and mental struggle moving forward in the game and how she has to cut these relationships off. And she does. And that's something that anyone who plays survivor and like
[00:13:54] it goes deep in the game, that's something they have to consider. But I think Lisa. Probably has one of the best narrations of that feeling and letting that story go to the audience, and it was. After playing, you know, before playing survivors like strategy, strategy, strategy,
[00:14:14] but like after it's like it has given me maybe I'm a little bit older now, but like. Gives you you appreciate these more human moments that do happen out there, and Lisa experienced a lot of them and orated so many of them beautifully.
[00:14:28] Yeah, I believe she was one of the first people to have the hashtag survivor meltdown show up on the screen because she does struggle really in the beginning on Tandang, and that's where she makes a bond with the man to her right who shall not be named
[00:14:43] and shall not be talked about for the sake of this list. He can watch Survivor 50 behind bars for all I care. But Lisa, I really enjoy again with celebrity casting. You're sometimes rolling the dice as to like whether or not they can hack it
[00:14:57] or whether or not they care. And Lisa absolutely did. But to your point, once she gets her feet under her, once Tandang is sort of afforded this win streak and she gets into the merge, then she becomes a bit of a player, starting with when she's just
[00:15:12] randomly doing laundry and she finds Malcolm's idol. And now she's the secret keeper. And it's not kept for very long to when her and Scoop and end up becoming the fulcrum alliance. Right. And really determine how the end game goes and turning on Tandang
[00:15:28] and then turning going with Denise and Malcolm to then take out the rest of the calabash. She is definitely a power player. I would not necessarily define her as Pender did as like the the yoke to the ox that was Denise in a manner of speaking.
[00:15:43] I'm misintributing the metaphor. The unfortunate news for Lisa is that in her quarantine questionnaire, she said in so many words when asked if she would play again. No, I got what I wanted and more importantly, what I needed. And I am forever grateful for that.
[00:16:01] I'm content to enjoy the show from the warm comfort and emotional safety of my own home. Thank you very much. So, yeah, she's getting her runner up money and she's getting the fan favorite prize and it's kind of getting the hell out of Dodge for survivor consideration.
[00:16:13] And like, that's so impressive that she got fan favorite over Malcolm. Because like if you don't remember Lisa Welsh, remember how big Malcolm was and Lisa Welsh will beat him for the fan favorite award. Like, yeah, so impressive. So I'm so happy.
[00:16:28] Quick, I'm so happy I didn't fall into the fire. So I share a statistic with one of these people. That's true. So close to sharing that statistic. Oh my God. Yeah, you were nearly there. You were nearly there.
[00:16:42] But I'm so happy that you end up sharing a statistic with Lisa, at least in that you both were fan favorite winners in a manner of speaking. You're more of a singular fan favorite where she is more so representing the population, though
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[00:17:47] Pumped the ish rich, rich tribe and given and close Ling made for Germany. Powered by Shopify. Well, let's take a step back and talk about Denise for a second, because you mentioned winners at war. Denise does come back.
[00:18:00] And yet the question is, would she want to come back for a third time? Would we want to see her for a third time? I don't think I've picked up like an explicit statement from her one way
[00:18:10] or the other. If someone can find it, absolutely let me know. The sense I got in the immediate wake of winners at war was that she was good. You know, she ended up getting those tattoos in Dora and survive.
[00:18:21] And I think that's what she's kind of remembering her experience by. I don't think she went out with her head as high as the person that went out after her in Ben in winners of war. But I do think she still went out like relatively satisfied
[00:18:33] with her experience where I don't know, to your point. I think there was a lot of strong stuff happening in that season, especially in the premerge. But I don't know if Denise necessarily feels that hunger to come out
[00:18:44] from time number three, nor do I necessarily think the fans are hungry to see her come back again. Yeah, I mean, Denise, Denise is an amazing player. And no one can take that away from our two one win.
[00:18:55] Another very deep run in a game of very, very good players. But yeah, the one the one thing that I wouldn't say, let's get Denise back right away is just. What are we going to see now? I don't know if Denise brings anything new to the table.
[00:19:10] She is that good. This isn't a knock on her abilities in any way, but I don't know. What what's Denise three point? No, that wasn't two point over one point. All right. Well, with all of our finalists left off the shortlist,
[00:19:22] that opens things up for our jury, and that's good because this is a character filled jury to say the least. Working our way up from the bottom to the top. We have one RC St. Amour. We have, of course, our other big celebrity casting of the season.
[00:19:38] Former major league baseball player Jeff Kent. We have two of the villainous trio that ends up getting taken down in the middle part of the game in artists and Pete. We have one of our returnees in the form of Jonathan Penner.
[00:19:53] We have, of course, his right hand man. He of the grocery store meme Carter. We have the villain of the season, if not one of the biggest villains of the 20s, who then comes back for a second chance in Abby Maria.
[00:20:05] And we have the guy who you just mentioned and who I want to start with. Here in our near fan favorite, this season turns into a favorite next season, both in the Sprint Award as well as from a literal tribe designation perspective.
[00:20:18] It comes back one more time as a game changer. Malcolm Freeburg. OK, look, I get it. This is the Simpsons meme of say the line. Bart, everyone's waiting for me to say something about Malcolm
[00:20:32] because one time there was a live show when he was booted from Game Changers and I was caught on camera pointing and laughing him getting voted out. Listen, I'm going to sort of, you know, deride the meme a little bit. I really like Malcolm.
[00:20:46] I like chaos more, which I think is where that reaction ended up coming from in the moment. But I've always really enjoyed Malcolm. And you talk about great narrators in Lisa. I think Malcolm is right up there as well.
[00:20:58] And it really speaks to one of the things I love about this guy, which is, look, you take a look at him. This was, you know, a bartender from Hermosa Beach, California
[00:21:07] at the time in his 20s has his long hair tied back, which has to be my opinion, I think unfairly compared to like your Joey Amazings and your Aussies, because there's so much more to Malcolm and it really is this sort of
[00:21:19] nerdier brain, for lack of a better term, and kind of this jockey visage. He calls Abby Maria a fricking dementor, which feels like a very, you know, in-depth reference for 2012, especially. Yeah, I mean, Malcolm Malcolm was so huge, like Malcolm was like
[00:21:36] he was the guy like they invited him for blood versus water. And he said, no, right? Yeah, they're going to be like, one, two, three, let's go. Yeah. Three seasons in a row. Malcolm, which if they brought his brother out, the one that he had visit him
[00:21:46] that had just as much personality as Malcolm, I would have loved it. I know Malcolm would have been exhausted, but his brother wouldn't be. Oh, man, that the game changes episode is so rough. It's so rough because it was just like.
[00:21:58] That's not who you want to screw it, you don't want to screwing over people like that, but he was so it was so captivating to watch him week to week. He's so funny, like you were going to be able. He's a great narrator as well.
[00:22:13] He has it all. How many individual meetings he was a season three? I think he wins two or three. Yeah, I mean, two or three. Unfortunately, the one that he should have won is, you know, the one that he ends up quite literally fumbling towards the end.
[00:22:28] And who knows where enough for some shaky hands or that particular immunity challenge, even though he has an advantage in it, you would have gone ahead and won the game and maybe he comes back for winners at war.
[00:22:40] You know, if I'm going to share, I share a statistic with Malcolm. I like that statistic. I love that. Yeah, there you go. Blowing, blowing the immunity challenge after an advantage. Sure. So I think Malcolm, if he was pulling a Jake, would have like
[00:22:51] smash the pieces over his knee once his ball dropped. He would just whip the ball like which one of the things that Jeff Space maybe. I don't know. Yeah, I absolutely adore Malcolm because, yeah, he is dealt this incredibly poor hand and is definitely one of the heroes
[00:23:06] of our story throughout, considering that him and Denise are obviously the underdogs in the first four episodes, and then he gets brought into tending and just like immediately gets brought into the fold, I think, because 10 days kind of coming apart
[00:23:18] at the seams because Malcolm just seems like this really genial, chill guy, which then amass this gamesmanship to him, which we see, I think, to a greater extent in his next season where he ends up getting to the merge.
[00:23:31] The favorites are in a comfortable position, but he decides to join up with like the bros and Corrine who start getting taken out. And Malcolm gets feisty. And it was a really fun version to see a Malcolm who, again, has had his back
[00:23:44] against the wall before, but not in this way. And we see him especially get very advantage happy. He is somebody who asked Reynold to play an idol on him during the infamous hold up, bro moment.
[00:23:57] It's going to be somebody who finds two idols and uses that to instigate the three amigos tribal council, which look, yes, especially in hindsight, is definitely something that is a bit overrated in terms of actual strategic efficiency. But it was still a very unprecedented moment,
[00:24:14] and I think really served as one of the earliest markers of like a live tribal council at that time. You know, he nearly finds a third idol were not for Andrea babysitting him. And so I think it's very deserved that Malcolm ends up winning this fan
[00:24:27] favorite in Caramo and because despite the fact that he finishes much, much lower, I think he finishes in like eighth place. I want to say he absolutely cuts a swath through this game and I think would be a game that translates very well to the new era,
[00:24:42] which again, admires all this scrappiness and especially idle hungriness. Yeah, I mean, Malcolm's one of these guys. If you put some kind of advantage in his hands, you're just like, what is he going to do with it?
[00:24:54] You're like, if you put an idol in his hand, he's not just going to go play. But it's good. We're going to have the hold up, bro. We're going to have the three amigos. We're going to have him pulling out a tribal council and be like, hey,
[00:25:04] I was just so everyone knows, you know what I mean? Like this, Malcolm is the person that you want to see back. Because he is going to do something different. Yeah, you're not going to get the same Malcolm. And like when was game change?
[00:25:14] Game change was like twenty seventeen, twenty seventeen. Like we got a little old. How old is Malcolm? Yes. So Malcolm is currently thirty seven. So you're almost on the money here. Yeah. So like we're going to see a little older Malcolm this time.
[00:25:29] Like in game changes, we didn't get to see that much from him. So really, we're dating back to like Caramon. We haven't seen him play and really play in like eleven years. That's why that's an entirely different thing. And I'm really excited to see. I want Malcolm.
[00:25:44] Yeah, I also say that. Yeah, yeah. Malcolm needs to come back. Right. I want to see him back as well. The question is, does he want to come back? This is his answer to the quarantine questionnaire. The answer isn't an immediate yes.
[00:25:57] Like it was when I was younger. I accidentally grew up since my first time out about nine years ago and have something called responsibilities now. It's far cry from the year before Philippines when I was living with too many roommates in a dingy beach house
[00:26:09] barricading nights to make ends meet. Then again, it's always hard to say no. CBS calls and essentially says, would you like to spend over a month in the most beautiful tropical locations on the planet, playing an adult obstacle course for a chance to win a million dollars?
[00:26:24] And I still need a sole survivor title. So we'll see. Jacob, that's a lot of words for yes. That's a lot of words. Yes. And that shows again, Malcolm is also a very fun writer. If you remember the blog that I don't know if he still does,
[00:26:36] but he certainly did for a good portion of time. I think it was called like Whiskey Ninja Turtles or something. So, yeah, of course, he's a wordsmith both on and off the page. But yeah, like you said, a very soft yes for Malcolm.
[00:26:46] So I would love to see it as well. I think he is one of these non winners that, yes, it would be time number four for him, but first off, the third time really counts. And secondly, it's been so long and he has shown so much connection,
[00:26:59] I think, to the new era in the way that he played previously that I really think he'd take to it like a whale shark to water. Yeah, it'd be fine. It'd be fine. Like, and do we think they do three tribes for 50?
[00:27:12] I don't think they would do three tribes for 50. But like when Malcolm get beat, you know, I know. But he's he's he's had both experiences, two tribes, 10 and then three tribes and six. So like, regardless of how they go with it,
[00:27:25] like Malcolm has the experience of both and getting through at least both pre-murder stages of those games. Well, let's move one space to his right and talk about the other person from this jury who ended up returning for a future season.
[00:27:38] Abby Maria Gomez, of course, Abby Firebrand would be describing it mildly. This is someone who I absolutely adore because she is somebody who is going to speak her mind in so many words, of course, uttering infamous quotes like you with me, you're dead,
[00:27:55] calling people poopy pants and moldy clowns and look, certainly vilified in the moment. But if you look back, Jake, the main people that she was going after were Michael Scoopin and Joe Anglim. So I do feel like history is maybe on the side of Abby a little bit
[00:28:08] in retrospect. It's so easy. Like we consider she's not a villain now, right? Like that kind of that kind of washed off like, I don't know when it all it post was that post Cambodia, right? Yeah, I think so. So yeah, who knows?
[00:28:23] Maybe Abby's a hero after all, in retrospect. But yeah, Abby is is just incredible. I mean, her her, I think impulsiveness is something that I've always adored about her again, going back to you with me. You're dead where she'll immediately hold grudges, whether it's her friendship
[00:28:42] and alliance with RC immediately dissolving within like a week, whether it's, of course, going after Wu for writing her name down not once but twice. And she's someone who has made it to the end of the game or the penultimate episode, I believe both times that she's played.
[00:28:56] So we've always got a dose of her as well. And I'm like, I just I find it interesting to look up confessional accounts like she's not low, like she is a pretty big narrator, like on both of her seasons.
[00:29:08] I mean, even in Cambodia, like Cambodia, I think has a lot of people where they really spit gold and she's right there with them. You know what I mean? So she's one of these people who, you know, I don't think
[00:29:19] you're going to come out here and say Abby is the best strategic player out here. But if you look at the kind of people who have done very well in the new era, Abby is kind of in the mix. Like I think, Abby.
[00:29:31] It would be really interesting to see what Abby does since Cambodia, since 2015, if she were to come back. But yeah, Abby was always super fun. Very, you know that. At that time, just one of these villains
[00:29:48] that you could really sink your teeth in, that you could just really, oh, that's fun or hey, you know, because some people like to hate people, but, you know, for fun TV purposes without being a piece of shit.
[00:29:58] But yeah, Abby was always, always great TV and was always the treat. Yeah. I mean, listen, even if her strategy is not up to stuff, you know, if you watch that one sequester game that her social is on fleek.
[00:30:13] Unfortunately, so when asked about it, she wasn't given a quarantine questionnaire. But I know when I was checking out a cast interview with Rob for a different wishlist podcast, I'll be doing. She had actually said that she'd been talking with Abby recently
[00:30:28] and had communicated that Abby had kind of, quote, gotten survivor out of her system, that she was in this stable relationship, has this very flourishing career as a real estate agent and was able to kind of say, I did this thing, I did it again
[00:30:42] and I'm ready to move on with my life. But if we're talking straight from the player's mouth, there was an article that got posted in an interview that Parvati did with Dalton Ross, where she had said that she wouldn't want to play survivor again
[00:30:54] because she had felt that if she were to go back out there, she would be immediately voted out just because of her reputation and her perception. And Abby responded to the article saying, quote, I wouldn't return on Survivor for the same reason.
[00:31:07] So unfortunately, while this summer is all about House of the Dragon, we will not be seeing the Brazilian dragon seemingly on Survivor 50. I disagree with their analysis. I don't think Abby is in a median first boot. I really don't. Hmm. Yeah, I disagree with her.
[00:31:23] We saw multiple times that people were willing to take her to the end, either as a goat or as a loyal ally. That's the other thing as well is I think sort of like Shane Powers
[00:31:32] or even Sandra to a certain extent, that the villainy is more so associated with the personality than the gameplay. We're like, yes, Abby does end up cutting our seat. But she is someone who has found some loyal people to stick with,
[00:31:45] whether it was artists and Pete in the Philippines or the witches. Coven Coven in Cambodia. She is somebody that will like find a group and glom onto them, which is maybe not strategy like some of the other biggest villains in Survivor history.
[00:31:59] Yeah. I mean, like the premer, the premerge of Cambodia, she was utter gold, the whole bracelet gate. Oh my God. Oh yeah. Again, speaking of the terms that impulsiveness, like she happens to find her bracelet in somebody else's bag and says PG, that's it.
[00:32:13] I'm going to screw over a numbers advantage as soon as we swap to get rid of you. That's Abby Maria in a nutshell. And listen, I'm just happy for any time we get of her. It's unfortunate that it doesn't seem a third time is likely.
[00:32:25] But let's work our way down here because I will just say Jonathan Penner, we know already on the ballot. But I'll briefly get your thoughts, Jake. Thoughts on a pen or four point? No, I mean, talk about a guy who has gone through so much
[00:32:36] since the last time he played. Penner is going to be amazing. Penner needed to be on the list without a doubt. It every. Is he like one of the best narrators in survival history? Like, there's really like he's if he's not the best,
[00:32:50] he's in the conversation as being the best. He's just so engaging. And I don't know. I don't know if it's that writer in him or like Hollywood. But he's a storyteller, Jake. That's what he does. It's what he does.
[00:33:02] But it's like not even it never even comes from a place where it's like above, you know what I mean? Like, you know, people like, oh, like they're a writer. It's like, yeah, I just write. You know, like there's a there's a blue collar feel to Jonathan,
[00:33:19] which I think has always been really appealing. Why always just weaving in these colorful words and colorful comparisons? And I penner always needs to be in the conversation to come back. All right. Well, let's move to the person below him as a work our way up the jury.
[00:33:35] So let's talk about Abby's friend turned nemesis in the form of Roberta Claire Arcee St. Amour and talk about sort of like a pastiche of her time. Right. There was a brief like three year window where Arcee was everywhere.
[00:33:51] She was the first winner of Miss Survivor back when Rob did that, beating out the likes of like Kim Spradlin, Andrea Belkey, et cetera. She has definitely one of the most distinctive survivor laughs I can remember since Kathy Bavrick O'Brien.
[00:34:06] And there was a world where Arcee did make a return appearance. For those that don't know, we'll be talking about this in a couple of days. But Arcee and her dad, Craig St. Amour, were scheduled to be on a four survivor blood versus water season 27.
[00:34:22] But Craig failed a last minute health check done by the medics on site and unfortunately was unable to clear things to get onto the season. And so they were kind of disqualified prior to the season. And John and Candace Cody were flown in last minute.
[00:34:38] Arcee was then given an opportunity, at least given the ask to be on Survivor Cambodia. But according to Jeff Probst, as he told Dalton Ross, Arcee we wanted and she didn't want to play. And I understood, you know, Arcee came out to play blood versus water
[00:34:53] and her dad got sick. And I've heard enough survivors tell me that the emotional journey is so strenuous that she just thought you're going to put Abby on the list, too. And I don't want to see her. Let's just forget it.
[00:35:03] Maybe we can revisit Arcee another time and she'll want to come back for what it's worth. Jake, we just said Abby's not going to be on this list. Like now because I'm hearing this and I remember this vaguely, but we always see our game changes.
[00:35:20] I mean, I know there was a spot in there for her. Like, come on now. Yeah. Oh, my God. But yeah, I see. I love Arcee like at the time she was amazing TV in like if you have the time to go watch Ponderosa videos.
[00:35:37] Watch Arcee and Ponderosa. If you miss Ponderosa, you'd miss it even more watching these Ponderosa videos from Philippines, particularly when Abby gets voted out. And it just leads to if you think all tensions of the game calm down as soon as people leave the environment of deprivation
[00:35:53] and insomnia, no, it almost amplified with having Abby and Arcee well fed, showered and arguing with each other at Ponderosa. It's like the edit of the show might have made you think that like, oh, Abby's the instigator. No, she instigates this stuff, too. She is stirring the pot.
[00:36:11] This is not Abby exclusive. Like like even even the stuff before Abby was there, she was poking it. Hey, Pete. Hey, Pete. So that was kind of dumb to come after me. It's like, leave me alone. Like I it was it was so like, it's so good.
[00:36:25] It's like, yeah. And like the only thing that was really interesting about Tandang early on to do with that scene. Yeah. So I'm not sure if Arcee has has given any opinions as to whether or not she would play now.
[00:36:39] She is 39 years old, which again is definitely not up there. But I would like to assume she would. Again, my worldview based on the Jeff quote is that like Arcee specifically did not want to come back if there was a guarantee that Abby was.
[00:36:53] And look, as wonky as some of the second chance voting was with Abby being on the list, she was pretty much guaranteed to be voted on no matter what. So I do think that Arcee would give Survivor another shot,
[00:37:05] especially now with like some time away and maybe the guarantee of there not being Ponderosa videos to slander her character. I think if I think the only problem with one of the major problems standing in Arcee's way from coming back at some point, I think is Angelina.
[00:37:23] I feel like Angelina and her feel a very, very similar spot. I'm pretty sure they're probably similarly aged. It's like these women that do like push people's buttons and will stir the pot. I think if Angelina is out like Arcee definitely has to be in the question.
[00:37:43] Yeah. But would you believe? Sorry, but you believe Arcee is four years older than Angelina. Oh, is she? Yeah. Oh, I would not. I would not have guessed that Angelina is 35. Well, then there you go. Yeah. So that's interesting, though.
[00:37:57] I have always thought about casting a survivor season of like not doppelgangers, but sort of like old era and new era versions of each other. And now I say they're both technically old era, but it would be.
[00:38:07] I mean, good God, it would be like a particle accelerator of Arcee and Angelina were on the same beach. You know, one would be laughing up a storm in her leopard print bikini.
[00:38:16] And Angelina would try to be wheeling and dealing to get her the hell out of here. It would be absolutely fantastic. They should do it. They should have both of them. That would be. That's the tribe I want to watch. There you go.
[00:38:28] That's let's leave the money on the table. Well, let's talk about a guy who's made a lot of money before Obama took it. Let's talk about Jeff Kent here, because, yes, Lisa has a wild story for biggest celebrity, but Jeff Kent does as well.
[00:38:41] This is a guy who if you don't follow Major League Baseball was considered one of the biggest assholes in baseball history at the time. You can find reports upon reports of all these arguments. Jeff Kim was getting into all these things he was saying about very beloved
[00:38:58] figures like Vin Scully, who is like one of the most fan favorite announcers of all time. Jeff Kent's like he talks too much like this guy was an absolute capital V villain and he comes into the game and he really is the narrative on Kalabagh
[00:39:14] for the premerge when they are honestly three out of three in terms of entertainment and in storyline, where he is initially going to be the one kind of, you know, leading this charge against Jonathan Penner, then joining Jonathan Penner when Penner reveals that he has the idol,
[00:39:30] even though he's going to do that old four fingered handshake to show that he actually was lying the entire time. There's a whole storyline with Dawson where she obviously knows who he is and she hints at it in oh so many words.
[00:39:44] And so Jeff takes her out and then it culminates in one of the wildest voting outcomes I've ever seen, where we have this wild tribal council where Malcolm reveals Lisa reveals Malcolm's idol. Abby reveals that she has an idol out of nowhere.
[00:40:00] The tribes basically split down the middle and in a five to four to one vote by one vote from of all people, Penner throwing a vote onto Abby being confused. Jeff Kent is voted out and in the process, a spouse is one of the most
[00:40:15] infamous final words in tribal council history. Jake, give me the pitch on Jeff Kent. I think Jeff here's the picture on Jeff Kent out of. Out of famous athletes that have been on the show,
[00:40:29] I think he has the best one of the best arguments for being the most dynamic who has come in and played and honestly like. He's playing not that like he gets by that vote, I mean,
[00:40:44] how deep is he going like in that vote is so good and it's so wild and it's oh, that's one of the best parts of the season is the Jeff Kent boot. But Jeff, like really for the first time, I think. Not for the first time, but.
[00:41:01] When Jeff comes into the season like he's saying, Penn is gone. I need better out of here. He needs to be out of here. And that's like what's not a common narrative looking at, you know, the previous captain seasons in Guatemala, Redemption Island
[00:41:15] and South Pacific, it was very like, oh yeah, you like Christine or in states where the temporary players, right? You're gone immediately. Jeff makes the merge with that mentality, even though the thoughts on pen or ship, but that whole all right, he's a problem. He's experienced this.
[00:41:32] That's the kind of mindset that you want, especially from a newbie player like. And I think the cool thing about Jeff is that, you know, a lot of people are starstruck by the returning players. Not really this season as much.
[00:41:43] I feel like every single returning player this season gets shit on by the rest of the tribe in some way, shape or form. Like I'm thinking about it. Oh, like no one really respected their returning player on this season whatsoever. But.
[00:41:56] I think Jeff does come in and he's he has this bravado to him that I think it is engaging and it's like, you know, I think a lot of people get bored with like the alpha male
[00:42:07] type characters who are like, let me take my group and march to the end. There's a little bit of sneakiness in Jeff that I think that typical alpha male does not. And I think that's what makes one of the things that makes Jeff so captivating.
[00:42:21] Yeah. So the biggest question I think, Jeff, for Jeff, for me, is what he wants to come back. He is 56 years old currently. And believe it or not, Jake, we're talking about yet another person that could have been on the ballot for a second chances,
[00:42:35] because in the same interview where Jeff talks about R.C., he had said that Jeff Kent was a guy that dot dot dot. He didn't say no. But we said, look, we have to cut the list down. Are you in or are you out?
[00:42:49] And he said, you know, call me another time. So he was wishy washy. And so I wonder if if he was wishy washy back in 2015, is that laundry properly dry in 2025? I, Jeff, I think he was a product of that time and like that era.
[00:43:08] I don't I don't personally need to see Jeff again. I mean, you can tell, like they try to recreate Jeff through John Rocca to probably not the best idea, but like Jeff, obviously, Jeff, people really like Jeff on production. Yeah. Well, let's move to the last year.
[00:43:27] I want to talk about with no offense to the other two. And let's talk about a diamond in the rough here, not a baseball diamond in the rough. I want to talk about Pete Yurkowski, because you talk about someone that is kind of lost in time
[00:43:38] or represents that era. I think that Pete is somebody who look, if you look at the place he finishes, it's in a it's not necessarily the most representative of the game he was playing, which was this guy sitting there premerge,
[00:43:54] not going to tribal council and deciding I'm going to cause a little bit of chaos. He is the wedge between Abby and R.C., besides the respective personalities where he takes the idol clue that Abby and R.C. had found together, hides it in R.C.'s bag.
[00:44:10] Abby finds it. And as a result, R.C. has to read the clue out to everybody. And it then creates this huge rift between them that obviously shatters apart when the merge hits. Now, look, was it the best gameplay? I don't necessarily think so.
[00:44:24] To fracture your tribe immediately at the first individual vote just for the lulz or to get Abby Maria on your side. But it goes to show a mischievous side of Pete that was so much fun. I think unfortunately, the era that Pete was cast in, you know,
[00:44:39] there were only a limited opportunities to bring people back. Of course, you have paramount and then you have blood versus water. And then that's pretty much it. Like you really have to pop to be back on Cambodia or game changers,
[00:44:51] especially for Pete's archetype, where he was this like young, fitter man. But again, like Malcolm, I believe that doesn't necessarily represent all that Pete contains. Yeah, I think the really good thing about Pete is that like, you know, you get a lot of these people and, you know.
[00:45:09] Twenty one, twenty two, twenty three, twenty four that are very like. They're pretty boys. Are they really giving anything? No, they're not. And we you know, we all know who they are. We could list a bunch of them off. But he is not one of them.
[00:45:22] I mean, at first glance, you're like, yeah, he probably falls in line with half of the Monono tribe from the previous season. Who, you know, whatever. But he brought something to the table when nothing was going on. Malcolm had to start playing right at the jump.
[00:45:38] You know, he's going to travel council. Pete was just bored. You know what I mean? And then like Pete almost goes too early. Like we don't see enough of him once the merge comes around. Like Pete is one of those guys.
[00:45:49] And I think he's similar to Malcolm in a lot of ways. He's just clearly overshadowed by Malcolm. They see that Malcolm's got the hair. Malcolm went deeper. Malcolm had the idol. But he also has mischievous side. He has the physical ability.
[00:46:03] He clearly has some social skills as well. Like Pete is one of those people that is unfortunately just been overlooked over the course of time and survive a history like, you know, you got guys later coming down.
[00:46:15] I'm trying to think like you got Jay and Millennials versus Jan. Probably fit a similar role. And you could probably think of a couple more that are, you know, traditionally attractive male who, you know, they're pretty funny and they'll get they'll get mischievous as well.
[00:46:29] And it's unfortunate that Pete has been overlooked so much throughout time because when I watched the season for the first time, I was big Pete fan. Everything he was selling, I was buying. You know what I mean? Like I loved it was so good.
[00:46:41] And if you forget, Pete, go back and watch him because he is really he is a really interesting character who wants to play the game his way. And I think that's always interesting to see. Yeah, and he was, I think, smarter than he lets on to.
[00:46:54] I believe he was like an engineering student when he first played. So he is currently 36. And for what it's worth on Survivor Reddit, like there was a random thread about should Pete come back and somebody sent a comment saying like,
[00:47:07] oh yeah, he probably doesn't have his gym body anymore. And Pete himself replied, setting this from the gym on a shamelessly randomly read it yourself excursion and feel compelled to reply. It's been 10 years. Modern Survivor slash edit style feels like a Big Bang Theory episode.
[00:47:21] I doubt I fit an archetype anymore, but if they call, I'll go. Yeah, I mean, Pete, he should if they call him, he should go back. He would be good TV. It's just it's like nothing Pete is doing wrong. Yeah, right.
[00:47:35] Like if Pete doesn't get the call, it's not because Pete wasn't amazing. It's not because Pete wasn't all these long list of things that you want to see from a survivor player. It's that it's just.
[00:47:45] The is the new iPhone, the new whatever, like it's keeping up with the Joneses and he's just been kind of left behind. Yeah, I'd like to see Pete again personally. I agree. I mean, listen, you do casting all the time. It's very much that idea, right?
[00:47:57] Of like everyone's performing to the best of their ability. It's just sometimes people have that genesis quad that fit the casting call more than Pete's type. But for the experiment of this, I think it's someone that we could certainly give an eye to considering that we're not necessarily
[00:48:11] filling up those archetypes. It's pretty much unlimited salad and breadsticks over here in our Olive Garden. And to be fair, Pete, I don't know what Pete's doing in his life now. Maybe dad Pete would be really interesting. You know what I mean?
[00:48:24] Couldn't you see like Pete like he has two daughters like I have to like can you see him giving professional I got to go punch away these young guys? I mean, it'd be interesting because listen, yes, he gets compared to Malcolm.
[00:48:35] But Malcolm, unlike Pete, did not date one of his main allies after the season like Pete did with Happy Maria. You know that, you know, there's also a little history. Happy Maria, if we get if we get Pete and Abby Maria on a tribe, can we do that?
[00:48:49] Oh, my God. The best way to get Pete convinced Abby to come back. And then, you know, like the opposite of our see, then as long as Abby is on the season, he would want to be on the season.
[00:48:57] That's not what he would want to. It's their production. You know, hey, oh, they had a relationship with Michelle and Wendell. Let's do it. Any spare thoughts about people like artists in Carter? I feel bad because I do think out of maybe the entirety of the Survivor
[00:49:08] Philippines cast, these are probably two of the more understated players. But Carter at least has the coffee pasta to live on and infamy. Yeah. I mean, like the thing that sucks is like I remember like I just had a really cool story of like applying a million times.
[00:49:22] Like he's like a cancer survivor as well. Like he has a really compelling story. And then like I'm looking at the confessional accounts for the season right now, everyone, you know, normal numbers, whatever. Cotta and it's both eight.
[00:49:35] Yeah, I'm pretty sure artists is also his only content was like him complaining about scooping as well. So it's like your survivor time is both limited in confessional account and the only professionals you have are talking about now like a convicted felon.
[00:49:49] Yeah, it just sucks because it's like, you know, I know it was only like 40 minutes back back then, but like we couldn't have given them like something, you know, because I understand like people can be upset if like their entire edit is about another person.
[00:50:01] And like that makes sense. But I you know, he's an interesting dude. I would like to see more from artists personally. But got it. Yeah. I read it. Thing is funny now. All right. Well, let's move into our pre mergers here.
[00:50:16] And look, I would say not as much of a star study group as the jury, but there's still a lot to talk about here. We, of course, have Katie, who I believe was the first contestant from Delaware. We have Dawson, the person to a bolt out, Jeff Kent
[00:50:31] and jump out of her seat and kiss Jeff Probst multiple times over the course of this season. We have Dana. I think she was a motorcycle mechanic who unfortunately falls victim to like getting so sick that she can't get medevac, but has to remove herself from the game.
[00:50:44] We have, of course, one of our returning players in Russell Swan, the final victim of a Matt Singh. We have Angie Cookies Layton. We have Roxy Morris, who was caught speaking in tongues. And we, of course, have maybe until Jalinski, one of the most iconic
[00:50:58] first boots in survivor history in Zane Knight. Let's go back to Russell for a second. When Evie and I were talking about Russell Swan, we felt like we had gotten the full story that I think the unanswered question
[00:51:10] of like, how would Russell do where he not medevac was kind of answered in this season that, yes, the circumstances weren't ideal, but he was put on a tribe that was almost the polar opposite in Galoo,
[00:51:21] where he went from winning all the time to losing all the time. He was voted out properly. He had his Lord, I mean, Jeff moment and his beautiful swan song in a manner of speaking. I feel OK with being done with him.
[00:51:34] But do you see another flight for pilot Russ here? You know what? Like I. The thing with Russell's story is that it's wrapped in such a nice. Tragic bow, if that makes sense. It's like I. He's such a captivating speaker, and I know we brought it up
[00:51:54] at the beginning of this, but go watch episode four of Philippines if you haven't seen it. It's one of the best one of the best premerge episodes of the show out there. I was really thinking about it before this podcast because like.
[00:52:06] Russell is such a captivating speaker, and it's I don't know how well he would be able to adapt to the new era where we wouldn't see a situation like what happened in this season. But like the really cool thing about Russell is that
[00:52:23] even though he's only there for episodes, you do get to see like his drive, what motivates you. And I do feel like we got. Who Russell was like, there's I don't know if Russell could bring anything else to the table than what we saw,
[00:52:38] and he left it all out there, and I mean that as a respect to him, because I like hearing the story about his childhood, it's like you lean in like you lean in when he speaks. And I know he's an attorney and he's one of those people.
[00:52:49] It's like, I would really love to see him in a courtroom. I don't I don't think I put him on this list to go back on another season. Well, not to mention as well.
[00:52:58] There's a lot of talk with attorneys about like, oh, how much will their game change? And again, we saw from Russell that he was in a different tribe and kind of ruled over it the exact same way, right?
[00:53:07] He's the one that comes in and makes the speech immediately. Sort of like what Bruce does on your tribe being like, oh, I promise I'm not the leader in charge right now. We're all going to work together. By the way, move this, move this, do that, do that.
[00:53:20] And so he immediately kind of defaults back into that mode. And it leaves you to question, is there any other mode he could be in? Yeah, there is a similarity there to being the leader. And like, can you take that leader out of people?
[00:53:31] Russell, I think we got that answer. I don't I don't think the leader will come out of Russell. And that's cool. And you're like, you know, normal life. That's awesome. And a lot of respect to him.
[00:53:40] But yeah, I it's I know I don't want to see him again on another season, but go back and go back and watch even just watch episode four. Seriously, it's it's the Russell show, and it's amazing. All right, Jake, let's talk about Zane Knight for a second,
[00:53:59] because good God, just to give the resume of what Zane Knight does within one granted, it was an extended episode, but still one episode of Survivor at that he hits Mattson Beach, makes an alliance with every woman on the tribe,
[00:54:16] makes final two deals, then goes to Russell and Malcolm and says, Oh, by the way, I made deals with everybody else, but I'll join you all in Denise and I'll be a fourth here. He then proceeds to like completely bungle the challenge for Matt saying
[00:54:32] he's just completely out of breath the entire time. His face is as blue as the paint that he put on half of it. Then he gets back to camp, tells everybody, Hey, it was me who screwed up the challenge. Vote me out.
[00:54:45] Then says in confessional that that was actually a ploy because the people that truly ride with him and like him would make sure that he doesn't go. So then he starts to scramble to protect himself. Then at tribal council, he reveals.
[00:54:59] Yeah, the reason why I was out of breath was because I quit smoking the day before the game. And after all these machinations, three days of just being a spinning top, he goes to the bottom and is voted out unanimously. And. Zane, Zane, oh my God, go.
[00:55:18] Go watch episode four of Philippines. Go watch episode one of Philippines like the way the flame out as not like. If you got into Survivor in the new era, you just saw Jalinski as such an amazing, amazing first boot,
[00:55:34] such an amazing act for one episode in and out. Zane is very, very similar. If you like Jalinski's one episode, I. You're going to like Zane's one. I love it. I love you being like the Jake algorithm of like, if you like Jalinski,
[00:55:50] you're really going to like Zane. But like no, seriously, it's so it's so good. It's it's OK. I can see Zane saying some things that Jalinski was saying. I know like not on the show is like I am the like Jalinski saying I am the monster.
[00:56:07] It's like you can see the same thing coming out of Zane's mouth. I mean, the Zane had Frankenstein's monster tattooed on himself. So there you go. As the monster, there you go. He's it's you looking at him in the way he speaks.
[00:56:19] I do think they were trying to recreate Russell Russell's. Otherwise, other Russell Hance a little bit, but obviously similar, similar store brand, though. You know what I mean? Yeah. In regards to the strategic portion.
[00:56:37] So look, this is where we turn to like the wish portion of the wish list, because like we don't know the theme for Survivor 15. We have no idea. But if there's a remote chance that first boots could be in consideration,
[00:56:52] I mean, you talk about like the Mountain Rushmore of first boots, in my opinion, is Sonia Christopher, who has tragically passed Francesca, who has said that she does not want to come back anymore. Jalinski and Zane Knight.
[00:57:05] And for what it's worth, you know, Zane Knight has seemed seemingly active and at least watching the show. I know he's a regular on the Johnny Fairplay podcast with Matt Bischoff. Seems that he's still, you know, in the area quite literally
[00:57:19] from a geographic perspective, as well as being at least interested in the show. He's only 40 years old. Would you want to see Zane Knight take a second stab at Survivor, Jake? You know, I would I like went back and forth on it, but like.
[00:57:39] I think it's super interesting if they can get two people on the same beach with similar stories like you got Jalinski and Zane on the same beach, like it's happened before where it's like you see like, oh, you have
[00:57:50] Brandon Hansen, Eric on the same beach and they're all they both gave away immunity. We never really got to see that story play out. But I do think there's like an interesting story here. If like, you know, you see people interact with similar stories like that.
[00:58:02] But I think even if he wasn't on the season. Zane's going to Zane like Zane, I don't know if Zane is grown. Mike, I'm sure you have right over the course of the past over 10 years. But what is he now? You know what I mean? Like what?
[00:58:20] What is the monster that is Zane Knight? It's a it's a great question. And yeah, I would have to imagine that he's probably is still not going to shed some of that chaos to him. Like, I'm sure he's going to come in and listen.
[00:58:33] By comparison, it's going to be mild to anything that he does. He could tear the shelter apart and it would still be less chaotic than the way he was in Philippines. But I feel like this is a guy that also cannot sit on his hands,
[00:58:45] which would make some some great TV. So and listen, we talked about this when we ended up putting Billy on the ballot and sort of like this big omnibus special that I did with Rob
[00:58:53] that he is one of these early boots that I think does pass the smell test a bit in terms of memorability, where like you said, Jelinski may be the new hotness, but when it comes to first boots, Survivor fans remember Zane Knight. Yes. Yeah.
[00:59:07] If you if you watch this season, you might not remember the name Zane, but you're like, who is that crazy guy who went on episode one of Philippines? Like Zane, I think Zane would be able to
[00:59:17] he'd have enough to get over the hump of like he's not forgotten about. If you've seen the season, you're going to remember you show a picture. A quick flash. Oh yeah, I remember him. He was running all over the place like he didn't quit smoking.
[00:59:29] You know what I mean? Like. He's he's an easy pitch to CBS. A couple of other people that I want to sort of dote on here that I think are all a little underrated and I want to give their flowers to. The Angie Cookies answer was not bad.
[00:59:46] OK, Jeff reacted the most apoplectic as if somebody had like cursed out somebody's mother like they would three seasons from now. I don't know if it was a joke answer or if it was just a throwaway thing.
[00:59:58] Like, oh, the thing I want right now is that we could have cookies. But the way that Jeff made it into an absolute mountain, Mount Everest out of the smallest of molehills was a little unfair to Angie,
[01:00:10] who does interestingly, I believe she was on the shortlist on the second chance ballot, didn't ultimately make it. But that would have been interesting. Also, a little bit of justice for Katie as well. I feel like Jeff really dug into Katie with some of his challenge commentary.
[01:00:22] We were like at the peak spicy Jeff levels back in the 20s. I think Katie was unfortunately at the receiving end of it when like she wasn't terrible. Maybe she dragged her tribe down a couple of times. I want to highlight Dawson as well, because
[01:00:38] Dawson Dawson's a freak. And I say that lovingly, but like Dawson did so many weird things and I almost forgot about it until I read a funny one 15 entry recently that reminded me about like the journey of Dawson, who is somebody
[01:00:52] who if you watched her during any sort of background movement cannot stand still. She's always dancing. She's always doing some sort of weird movement. She is the person who figures out who Jeff Kent is because she dated a guy
[01:01:05] who was really into baseball and then decides, despite being in the minority and being in trouble at her first tribal council to then spend the afternoon trolling the shit out of Jeff Kent by saying, I really want to date an athlete,
[01:01:18] but it would have to be a football player or a basketball player. I don't think baseball players are really athletes, just endlessly digging into him and then culminating in her being so excited to see Jeff Brooks when Jeff visits Dana at camp to like medevac her.
[01:01:36] She is so completely kills the mood. I'll let Courtney Merritt and Shane being naked by being like, Oh, Jeff's on the beach. Is that this great? She'll lay one on him after she's voted out and then do it in a more intimate way
[01:01:47] at the freaking reunion when she just bone rushes him on the stage of Studio City and plants one on him. But maybe one of the oddest things I've heard from her was actually in a secret scene. I don't know if you remember this, Jake.
[01:01:59] We're like the Kalibaw tribe is talking about food and Dawson says, and I quote, I F for soft cheese. And it's just the icing on top of the cream cheese icing, perhaps to quote those soft cheeses on top of the enigmatic cake. That is Sarah Dawson.
[01:02:19] I mean, that kind of makes sense, Mike, you wouldn't. I mean, I love me a soft cheese personally. Ironically, I would get hard for soft cheese. All right. Well, we have we have our own sample platter to divulge into right now
[01:02:34] a charcuterie to sample as we have to pick a few to maybe four people, I think, again, despite the the gates being temporarily lifted in this halftime show, I think we're still going to keep it to the shortlist. I'm keeping it to three to four people.
[01:02:47] And then if there are any people by popular demand that fans really, really want on the ballot, we can sort of clean them up after everything is said and done. But let's talk about the people from this season that we want to put on in today's podcast.
[01:03:00] Jake, give me the first name you want to nominate here. I we got to say, Malcolm. Yeah, like we got to go with a no brainer first. Right. Like we got to say, Malcolm. Malcolm's on there. Like who's going to disagree with me? Like, come on. Like, where?
[01:03:14] Like the Reddit, you can unify Reddit around this point, right? Like we're pretty good. Yeah, that's and that's and that's saying something that, yes, Malcolm will be the one to unite us at all these hard times. So, Malcolm, welcome to the shortlist, hopefully for time number four.
[01:03:30] The other ones, obviously, are think of are a bigger step down because obviously all of our other returnees are kind of out of the picture here. But I'll throw a bone to Arcee. I think Arcee, she had those couple of close calls.
[01:03:42] I think we make the call even closer this time around. She had personality. She had some momentum that promptly got stopped at the merge, and she definitely had some feistiness to her that I think could be really fun
[01:03:55] to see from a conflict perspective on a new era season. Yeah, I think the thing with Arcee, if you're thinking right now, I don't really remember Arcee. I don't like what why would I want to see Arcee back? Go watch the Ponderosa videos.
[01:04:07] Like it. She speaks for herself on why she should be back. The more we're talking about Arcee, I just keep going. Where was she on Game Changers? That's my that's the biggest thing I've taken out of this podcast is where was Arcee on Game Changers?
[01:04:19] All right, Jake, why don't you nominate another one here? Put someone in our third slot. I'm I will nominate Pete. OK, I know. I'm bored. Yeah. Yep. Pete, you know, he's probably overshadowed by a couple of different people. But Pete brought a lot to the table.
[01:04:36] If you don't remember Pete, go back and watch him. Pete is the person who is going to start trouble when there is no need to start trouble. And one thing you can be sure of, that's always going to be good TV.
[01:04:47] And that's someone you want to see back on your screen. And you know what? I do think, you know, Pete comes back. He's one of those names where it's like. I think Pete could come back and win just because he's not
[01:04:58] one of these people coming in at super high profile, but he is one of these people who. I think it's fair to say that he's going to have some tricks up his sleeve and he may be overlooked early on.
[01:05:09] And I think Pete has some winter upside if he comes back. I totally agree. Cosign that. I mean, I think the real question we need to finish things off with is we do have a fourth spot that's up for grabs.
[01:05:19] I mean, would we want to give it to like a Jeff Ken? Would we want to give it to a Zane Knight and really go fantasy here? I, I, I love Jeff Kent. I don't need to see him again.
[01:05:31] I would I would be OK seeing Zane Knight again. There was like, like even if he got like even if he got boost out 44 style, you know what I mean? Like we're going to see something. And even if we just see like free game interviews,
[01:05:47] I kind of just want to know what's in that. Yeah. You know, it is a if Zane Knight goes to Ponderosa and then realizes he quits the game smoking again one day before the game and then opts out.
[01:05:56] He Melissa McNulty is it at the end of the day? I would love that interview. Why the hell not? In my opinion. Look, there might be some other people that others would want to have on again. We will address that when the time comes.
[01:06:07] But Zane Knight, yes, it's a wild idea to put a first boot on the ballot. But if there is any first boot to put on there, Zane Knight is definitely at the top of that list. Yeah, Zane Knight is at the top of the list.
[01:06:19] He's on the Mount Rushmore first boots, as we said. That's I want to know what's been up with Zane Knight. If you watch Survivor, you don't want to know what's up with Zane Knight. You didn't watch Philippines. What's interesting is that if you look at our four people,
[01:06:32] they all they pretty much go in like sequential age. We have Pete at 36, Malcolm at 37, R.C. at 39 and Zane at 40. So also sort of all within the same age bracket, but completely different personalities. Last thing I want to ask Jake, as we do every podcast here,
[01:06:48] who from this cast would you want to see on a different show besides Survivor? Maybe Carter on guys grocery games? Put put better on everything. I know that is on the list, but like, um, what Lisa Welch along the traders? Oh, like maybe some of the traders.
[01:07:08] And she kind of hits both of their their markets. Right. And that they like to bring in reality stars and like occasionally a couple of random celebrities. And so there's so much we'll be able to satisfy both of those.
[01:07:18] I don't remember if Facts of Life is a NBC product. She is doing, I think, a show called like Collectors Call now on me. TV dot com. Yes, that exists where she did a Survivor themed episode, actually, where she like went to a Survivor memorabilia collection
[01:07:32] with somebody and brought Ethan alongside her. So she's definitely keeping herself out and about as a media personality. So I think that she would be super fun. I mean, Abby Maria for House of Villains would just be absolute gold casting. She should like they should if
[01:07:48] they're to cast season two, season three, like Abby should be on the short list of people that they call for House of Villains. Absolutely. 100 percent. Well, we have a short list winnowed down from the excellent cast of Survivor Philippines. We have, of course, Malcolm Pete Yurkowski, R.C.
[01:08:04] and Zane Knight to close it all off. Jake, any other things you want to say about Philippines, about the list in general before we look ahead to what's next? I've been loving these so far. Like, thank you.
[01:08:16] Just going back in like just some of the people that you forget about that you're like, oh, wait, there's that person like that would be really cool. Like, I don't know, like during Cambodia, like going back
[01:08:26] and with that whole voting process going back and hey, this couple of people you may have forgotten about and going back like, oh, yeah, they really brought something to the table. So this has been really this has felt really refreshing watching these
[01:08:37] and hearing about the old people who should probably come back. Well, thank you. But just when you thought it was safe to get out of the dark ages, we're going to take one dip back in, arguably as tomorrow. We're talking survivor
[01:08:51] Caramo and Malcolm's second season and definitely his less regarded one. And what's interesting about this is much like the first fans versus favorites, all the fans have been favorites have been accounted for in some way, shape or form. All ten favorites from season 26 have been talked about,
[01:09:08] either added to the list or have said that they would not want to come back. So, Jake, I know you have a wealth of options, but from all the Sterling fans that participated in Survivor Caramo and who would you want to see come back for season 50
[01:09:28] of the fans season 26? Sherry Justice for our fellow zero vote. There we go. Exactly. Solidarity, Jake. Your membership to the club is not revoked at this moment. Well, we shall see who whether we'll put Sherry through or whether we'll be told to sit down with our opinions.
[01:09:47] I'll be joined by your fellow new era brethren. Omer Zahir to talk through Caramo. And look, that is a chaotic season in so many ways. I think having a chaotic person like Omer on will be a lot of fun.
[01:10:00] And regardless how many people we end up putting on, it should still be a fun time. I hope you all are having fun as well. It's great when we get to talk about seasons like this. Or again, there are so many different options, so many different personalities.
[01:10:10] I was excited to revisit this one, especially with you, Jake. So thank you so much again. Anything you want to plug to the listeners out there about anything you might be doing? No, not really. Just finished up the house and want to land another plane in the fall.
[01:10:23] I'll plug it in and something else, you know. There we go. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next on stage as we set the stage for Survivor 50. We're back tomorrow with Omer Zahir talking at Survivor Caramo. And thank you all so much for listening until tomorrow, everybody.
[01:10:38] Take care. Bye bye.