Today, Mike and Sarah Carradine (@sarahcarradine) discuss Season 21: Nicaragua![00:00:15] Hi everybody and welcome back to the Survivor 50 Wish List Podcast, an off-season series where we're trying to figure out who could and should come back for Survivor 50.
[00:00:28] My name is Mike Bloob and we are still basking in the glow of Heroes vs. Villains as we move into what some Survivor fans have typified the Dark Ages of the show.
[00:00:40] But we're hoping to find some light here in Season 21 Nicaragua. It was a battle of the ages, it was a battle of players against the elements, it was perhaps a battle of how did a young man by the nickname of Fabio at 21 years old win the show?
[00:00:58] I predict that hopefully today will not be much of a battle but hopefully a very spirited debate. I am so excited to bring in this person to talk all things Nicaragua. She is my medallion of power, it is the great Sarah Carradine!
[00:01:11] Oh thank you so much! It was the worst of times. It was the worst of times.
[00:01:17] So yeah, here we are, we're encountering a very interesting period for Survivor. When this entire experiment was announced, a lot of people came to me and were saying, good luck finding people to scrape off the cast to put in the ballot for Thailand.
[00:01:32] And I'm like, have you met the early 20s of Survivor? Which, look, certainly have some highlights which we will get into today but have been known colloquially for a long time by Survivor fans as certainly not the most high quality stretch of seasons.
[00:01:48] We're bringing in controversial twists like Redemption Island into things. Seasons 22 and 24 in particular are regarded as two of the worst seasons in Survivor history. The casting is a little uninspired across the board and especially with Nicaragua, we talked about this with Vanuatu, there is again this high that Survivor fans are forced to come down from after an anniversary season still heralded to this day as one of the best seasons ever in Heroes vs. Villains.
[00:02:16] Survivor fans were gawking at their screen in May of 2010 asking, how do you follow that up? How they followed it up was Survivor Nicaragua.
[00:02:25] But I'm intrigued from your perspective, Sarah, because I think the term Dark Ages has also been thrown out for things like the late 30s when we were getting super twist and theme heavy and there are even people that might throw it out for the new era as well.
[00:02:39] Looking back especially, do you feel that this Dark Ages theming holds for this particular stretch of seasons pretty much until Philippines?
[00:02:48] Look, I would say yes in difference to people who are much cleverer than me and have much more Survivor lore and history embedded in them. I mean, I've seen all the seasons. I always say I'm a casual, I'm an enthusiastic casual.
[00:03:03] There we go, those are the types of casuals we like to see.
[00:03:06] I've watched them all. I have thoughts about them. I can draw a strategic thought when forced. But so I would say yes, it is a Dark Age because everybody who knows more than me says it is. But for me, no. Like why? It's Survivor, you know.
[00:03:22] And I think that there is an element of remembering in your mind what something like Nicaragua and the other ones that are said to be the Dark Ages and actually watching it on a binge, which is not as painful as you would have thought. There's my review. Not as painful as you would have thought.
[00:03:40] Well, Nicaragua to me is definitely my favorite out of the four Dark Age seasons, though. Again, make of that what you will put that bar however you want to and see how high I jump. But I do think that Nicaragua is really a season of extremes where for what it's worth, I really like the first four episodes of Nicaragua as disparate as the old the old the old old versus young theming was.
[00:04:09] And the the odd casting like Sarah, I am 34 years old as the crow flies. I would not be on this season because unlike a millennials versus Gen X or a Panama, they just said, OK, everyone 30 and younger is on one tribe and everyone 40 and older is on the other tribe.
[00:04:25] Much like casting for Survivor proper, they have largely ignored the 30s. But I think that the first four episodes have been they were a lot of fun. You know, I think we get sort of a fun first boot flame out in the form of a Wendy Jo.
[00:04:38] We have a pretty invigorating second episode, which was one of my favorite like Episode twos of Survivor in general, where you get this division within the younger tribe and we get our first instance of chase, you know, flip flopping between alliances and the downfall of Shannon.
[00:04:54] Then we have Jimmy Johnson, who is one of the biggest faces in the season, if not in Survivor history, kind of falling on his sword, realizing that the game he's been watching for so long is one he'd rather watch from the sidelines.
[00:05:07] And then we have the rise and fall of Jimmy T, who finally gets what he wants when he gets to become the leader.
[00:05:12] And it just goes absolutely terribly for him. And then when we hit the swap, it gets murky a little bit. We have some frankly confusing votes that will get into the narrative becomes a bit more streamlined as those dynamics get broken up.
[00:05:28] And then we get to the merge, which really swirls around to your earlier point as to how this season is regarded around the double quit and unprecedented moment in Survivor history that has yet to be followed in that capacity.
[00:05:43] I think due to production in many, many ways, even from an endgame perspective, the winner of the season is not necessarily Holly, who has this big underdog narrative and is the last older contestant standing.
[00:05:59] It's not Jane, who is this fan favorite pugnacious firecracker of an individual. It's not Sash, who was the biggest wheeler and dealer of the season. And if you could believe it, the biggest bachelor in New York City at the time.
[00:06:13] It's not true. Who was maybe the biggest player in that? How much of a pivotal swing he was at essentially every vote that he participated in. It ends up being this long haired, very pleasant, but at least humming across in the moment as definitely in over his head.
[00:06:34] His beautiful blonde head man by the nickname of Fabio, who was losing his socks and losing his marbles at the same time.
[00:06:44] He wins in this five to four vote, and I think it left people a little confused, a little unsatisfied in the moment is a little comparable to Bob winning Gabon and that he had to win out.
[00:06:53] He won the last three immunity challenges. But we talked about this during the Gabon podcast. If you look back upon Fabio's win as sort of a representative of Nicaragua in general, he's messy. It's a little confusing. It's very funny. And overall, it kind of leaves you saying, huh?
[00:07:12] There's something there, but it's not all the way there. I mean, it just makes you wonder what we were shown because watching it again. I was surprised again, as I was last time I rewatched it, that he articulates his game right from the start.
[00:07:27] Yeah, right from the start. He says exactly how he's going to play and that's how he plays and he wins. So I think that he is underrated, not underranked as a winner. I'm not here to argue for his ranking over anybody else, but I do think underrated.
[00:07:45] If you take simply because and we don't know when the confessionals were filmed, but they were certainly filmed on the island. And it's more than once that he completely articulates the game that he then goes and plays.
[00:07:57] All right. Well, let's stay on the man that meant the legend. Yeah, we start cracking into these players because let's start. Let's start with Fabio here. I am very. Oh, look how beautiful. Right. Just like an incredibly gorgeous man.
[00:08:14] And yet to your point, I mean, we talk all the time in Survivor about utilizing how you're perceived and turning that into a weapon. And nowhere is that more clear than this guy whose name is Judd, as Deonka will let us know, steps onto the beach.
[00:08:32] Everyone's nicknaming him Fabio and he's like, all right, sure. I'm Fabio. And this is a guy that saw, I think, the power that existed in that nickname in the perception of, OK, I'm just the dumb surfer bro model type from California.
[00:08:48] Everyone's going to underestimate me and they should. And he ended up turning that into a million dollars. To your point, I think Fabio is incredibly capable when it comes to making reads and determining how his own self value in the game is reflected on that.
[00:09:06] I think it's true. And I think he also read his fellow competitors quite well. When we see him getting frustrated, it will be at moves or things that people are doing that he thinks are not clever.
[00:09:18] But because he is seen as not clever, it's passed over by his fellow contestants to their ultimate not gain, whatever the opposite of that is loss, I think.
[00:09:30] I mean, even the fact that he says, I'm only giving a certain percent and now I'm going to turn on the afterburners. And when people say that, you go, oh, sure.
[00:09:40] And then when you see it happen, as we did in a recent Australian season where someone said, yeah, I was doing 60 percent, you go, yeah, sure you were.
[00:09:48] I'm going to turn it on now. And they do. And you go, oh, yes, yes, you actually were because now I see. And he wins out on the last three. And then people try and use that against him. Well, you only win one the last three.
[00:09:59] It's like, yes, that was my strategy. It got me to the end and it got me the million. And I think in a in a season with such a look, all things are what have you. But I think all this is just really stupid.
[00:10:14] The only good thing about it was them arriving in mixed groups and not being so happy with being with the young chicks. And Chase being so happy to be with Jimmy Johnson and then only for them to be divided and never meet again.
[00:10:26] Yes, it's so good. But it makes sense that either an older person wins or that the youngest of the young win. And he is still, I believe, the youngest winner. I believe it's like a number of days.
[00:10:44] I'm pretty sure that from like the amount of time he had been on this planet, from when Jeff declared he was a million dollar victor, I believe it's still Fabio. OK, all right. Well, let's not give millions of dollars to 20 year olds.
[00:10:57] But well, that's that's a really interesting thing, because on the one hand, it kind of has become a running joke. And I don't know the extent of which this happened.
[00:11:09] I don't know if there's like news headlines that I'm missing out on, but I believe it is commonly held that Fabio pretty much blew that million. He did what Tyson promised he would do back in like season 18, season 20 of just immediately go through the money again.
[00:11:25] He was 21 at the time and he had a million dollars in his hands. Of course, it was going to become like as liquid as the Atlantic Ocean around him.
[00:11:34] But what I do think is interesting is a Fabio return, because this might be one of the winners where I have so many question marks as to who is Fabio now. I believe he is 35 and he was born like three months before me.
[00:11:50] So what does he look like now at an age that is obviously hopefully in my sake more mentally sound? What does it look like now that he has kind of been burned by that spotlight that comes with Survivor and learn the hard way the ideas of fiscal responsibility?
[00:12:06] How much of that mature him in the moment even? Is he going to approach the game differently? Yes, he's definitely would still be one of the youngest people we put on the ballot here.
[00:12:15] But if he's playing against people that are still in their late 20s, could he still hold a candle to them and still be that challenge beast that he had to be towards the end? Would he have to change his game?
[00:12:25] Because now people sort of know that he is more capable than they may think, that there is a bit of a brain behind the blonde. I think there's a lot of really interesting questions there at the possibility of a Fabio return.
[00:12:38] I mean, he's definitely on my list and would be the first I would say let's get him on the three for all sorts of reasons. And one of which is that would he have to change his game because he was underestimated on his season.
[00:12:52] He has been consistently ranked extremely low of all the winners. He comes in with that. I mean, if you have super fans in 50, they may have wild theories or someone might think he's better than he is remembered like I do.
[00:13:11] But he may be able to turn that still to his advantage. He's 35. If he looks like a 35-year-old version of that, which he may well do. I don't know what he looks like now. I did not stalk him on the internet. I'm not that girly.
[00:13:23] But there are just ways I think that he could play it. And as I say, having watched it again, give me a medal, he's not dumb. Like he's not dumb. He's called the dumb blonde by horrible Shannon. Not you, Shannon. Yeah, I was going to say.
[00:13:41] Shannon, you played on it. Yeah, I'll say horrible Shannon, meaning the one that played on this season. But he actually isn't. He has smarts that are different from other people's. I think his feel and his tone would be different.
[00:13:55] And also, like I was going to say how you can get 35-year-olds on. Well, obviously, you pick more recent seasons. But to get a 35-year-old from the early days, from season 21, from before the strategies that have become meta and so on, I think would be really interesting.
[00:14:16] And I think that production would be missing a trick not casting him. Yeah, I was a little sad that he wasn't brought out for Winters at War for that reason of just exploring the potential that he could bring to a second time out.
[00:14:28] So I feel like we should grant ourselves that potential and put him on the ballot. I'm not sure if he'd get voted through, but he is one of these winners that we did not see on 40 that I would just be really intrigued for a Fabio check in here.
[00:14:41] Yes. Does he get another nickname out on the island and now he has to go by that nickname? Well, I was wondering if he would come on as Judd or whether he would come on as Fabio because people said Judd. He'd have to come on as Fabio.
[00:14:53] He'd have to. It's the reason why like Eric Reichenbach was told to grow out his hair for Cara Moen in the same way as Micronesia, despite the fact that he hadn't had his hair like that since Micronesia. It's just going for the fans that imagine
[00:15:05] that Survivor contestants are like cryogenically frozen right after they compete on their season and then defrosted for their newest venture on the island. I think that Fabio would have to go by that name. Plus maybe it helps from like legal perspective
[00:15:18] if he wins more money and gets counted for it again. Yeah, I mean how mad were production when he cut his hair for the reunion? Yeah, it's very true. Though he looks good again. I love him.
[00:16:28] So let's talk about our other two finalists here. I will say off the top, I do not believe either one would return or would be allowed to return, but I think they're worth talking about because again, this Nicaragua cast largely forgotten.
[00:16:43] We're going to have one returnee out of 20 in all 46 seasons, but there's some interesting people here and I gotta start with the guy in the middle here and it's fitting that he's in the middle because he was in the middle again of pretty much everything
[00:16:57] in Survivor Nicaragua in the form of Chase Rice, who really Sarah not since the days of like Colby. Have we seen someone be able to draft off of that brief glimpse of fame to parlay it into something much more massive? Yeah, I don't like him. Oh, okay.
[00:17:18] Not a Chase Rice fan. You're not going to eat Chase Rice. I'm not. It's not going to be Chase Rice Wednesdays over my house anytime. I mean, I suppose the allure of having him back is that post-game fame? Question mark? Infamy?
[00:17:36] I mean, he was nominated for like CMT awards. He did Ride, that hit song, back in 2012. He's put forward a good amount of stuff. Hell, Sarah, did you know about his involvement in the Bachelor franchise? I do. I do. Because somehow, how did I cover that anyway?
[00:17:52] It's in my history somewhere and that's how I know a little more about Chase Rice than perhaps I ever wanted to. Yeah, so for those of you that don't know, just briefly, they did a date and sometimes every season they'll have like an artist perform at a concert
[00:18:06] and that's where they go for their one-on-one date. And this particular season, the artist performing was Chase Rice, who turned out to be the ex-boyfriend of the girl that The Bachelor happened to take on the date with him. Brilliant. Brilliant.
[00:18:19] And she thought it was a setup from production, which is like, brilliant. Talk about main character syndrome. I just think, you know, people said that Fabio was dumb or not smart. I don't think Chase was smart. He wasn't socially smart, let's say.
[00:18:33] I mean, Fabio had a social strategy as well as a physical strategy. Chase had I don't know what. He was so worried about people not liking him. Buddy, you're on the wrong game. You're on the wrong game.
[00:18:49] And I think the vitriol that was headed his way was perhaps too much, but he did bring it on himself. I mean, I like the fan theory that if Nianka and Kelly, who we'll come to, the quitters had not been allowed on the jury,
[00:19:08] the fan theory is that Chase would have won, so we might be, you know, talking about a winner. But he's just so blah. He's so mayonnaise. I mean, I love mayonnaise. He's so spongy. As blah as like unseasoned rice perhaps? Blah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:26] I mean, I would rather have a bowl of rice than a bowl of Chase rice. Well, yeah, because that's also a very graphic image. I will say that I think sort of like the psychological implications
[00:19:36] that Chase brings intrigues me maybe more so than the person who just kind of seems like this good old boy from North Carolina. I mean, I believe he was like a NASCAR pit crew member,
[00:19:47] though he looks right now like he'd be a pit crew member on RuPaul's Drag Race in this picture. But, you know, I think that he brought about some of these qualities that I have lauded in
[00:19:56] players like Ian in dreams and rape a little bit of like the difficulty that comes in playing a game like Survivor, especially from Chase's perspective, someone that did not necessarily know the show when he was brought on and was brought into Shannon's Alliance immediately.
[00:20:11] But it's like, oh, but I really like Brenda. We really have to get rid of Brenda. I like Brenda. I think I'm going to work with Brenda now. Sorry, Shannon. And just to see how how he was able to both turn on and off switches like
[00:20:24] alliances, but then also simultaneously still kind of have like one foot back in that dark room of like, oh, but I feel bad doing it. It's something that I would imagine maddened a lot of people. Hence, yes, he lost in a close vote,
[00:20:38] but still lost at the end of the day because of that. That wishy-washyness should be noted. You know, he got nominated for a CMT Music Award and he got nominated for dumb as a bag of hammer award as well by Marty in the final three.
[00:20:53] I think Marty called him the worst Survivor player ever. So I think someone like Chase to me would have a returning appeal as he was one vote away from winning the unfinished business. Is there stuff? Could he dirty up his game in a way besides that wishy-washyness?
[00:21:10] But Chase has made it very clear with his burgeoning music career that this is something he doesn't necessarily want to do. In fact, he wrote an article that was sort of like a letter to a kid version
[00:21:21] of himself, and he gets into Survivor for a brief portion of it. He says, as soon as you get to Nicaragua for the show, literally as soon as the show begins filming dot dot dot dot, you'll hate it. You'll love the adventure of it, but everything else,
[00:21:36] the manipulation and the sneakiness and all the behind people's back stuff. Nah, he didn't grow up that way. And looking back on it now, you'll be one of the worst Survivor players in history, or at least you think so, but you'll get real lucky and somehow
[00:21:50] get second or more to the point. You'll get $100,000 and that then parlays into him using that money to move to Nashville and start a career. So yes, suffice it to say, I think Chase is is looking
[00:22:02] back on that experience as like something that was some nice seed money to start his career, but not necessarily something he's looking back for the future. Sure. I mean, I, you know, my hackles go up and so sneaky backstabbing.
[00:22:18] It's like what you're talking about the game, the actual game, the playing of the game, but that and my other pet peeve is people other people aren't playing, which is not something that he said. Look, I'm sorry that he didn't enjoy it.
[00:22:33] I obviously my objection to him is the character as shown to me on a televised and edited, you know, show. It's not the him that he is. I just feel that, yeah, as I say, spongy and uninteresting,
[00:22:49] whereas I find Fabio more interesting than him, as I have made clear. But if he won't come back, then he won't come back. Well, let's ready set roll on to our next analyst here. That's right. Many hit songs.
[00:23:02] I mean, you talk about someone who is maybe more opposed to the backstabbing qualities of Survivor. Hello, Matthew Sash Lenihan. So Sash was again this this big broker. He was someone that was was getting in good with everybody, but also found himself at several juncture points,
[00:23:23] kind of personified as one of the most strategic players of the season throughout the premerge. He's running things, assumingly right alongside Brenda as kind of number one and two on the floor. But he is also a bit of the mouthpiece of the alliance.
[00:23:37] He's the one that's able to get Marty to give him the idol in exchange for keeping Marty safe, something that Sash will hang on to until he uses it at the final six. Then he starts to utilize that power to take out some of those
[00:23:52] that are closest to him, particularly Brenda. He gets brought in and is more than happy to get rid of his number one ally way before Survivor 46 was making him cool. Then when he loses Purple Kelly and a bold, tight allies of his,
[00:24:08] Sash is a little bit under the collar here. There's a little bit of heat on him because he's now trying to turn on Chase where he's debating, OK, do I go with this guy's alliance now and break up everything that's going on?
[00:24:23] He ends up not doing so, but now players are really looking at him as shady, as sneaky, as the guy that will smile to your face but absolutely eviscerate you behind your back. And that goes on to reflect in Final Tribal Council
[00:24:40] where it really does not seem that anybody, including his former BFF in Brenda, give him any time of day. At that point, I think the ship had sailed on Sash, and so he did not win a Sash nor a crown from his time on Survivor Nicaragua.
[00:24:58] Nor a vote. Nary, nary a vote. I think it would be very hard to argue that production is going to bring back a zero vote finalist. I don't know, I've just decided that. It's not something I thought before.
[00:25:10] You'd be better to come fourth if you want to come back in 50 than to be a zero vote finalist. Look, I think Sash's strategic game is not bad. I'm a fan of the turning on people when you need to.
[00:25:23] He completely lacked the social game, and that's where we have seen players do terrible, betray-y things and still be voted for, still be liked by their erstwhile number ones and number twos. Number ones in a pool, obviously, as Fabio showed us.
[00:25:43] But he, smart though he is, apparently he's very smart, according to him, he completely missed, like completely missed the social side. So you've got Chase and Sash are so interesting because Chase wanted to be liked and went about trying to be liked, and Sash wanted
[00:26:01] to be a mastermind and went about trying to be a mastermind. Both of them succeeded to a greater or lesser extent, but they both missed that other portion. And I'm not saying that Fabio was the perfect combination of both. There's not really a Goldilocks situation here.
[00:26:14] There's not a Goldilocks situation, but I think- Even though Fabio does have Golden Locks. He does have Golden Locks, and he might be just right. But the fact that you would think Fabio might get votes because people couldn't bear to vote for the other two is a narrative
[00:26:32] you might describe too. I don't. But you could when you look at Sash's inability to not even smooth over, inability to humble himself enough to be likable. You can think you're the best and the greatest. Just maybe don't tell people along the way.
[00:26:51] Yeah, I do recall like a Day 39 moment where he's like, Fabio Chase, there's no one I'd rather sit next to as I collect my million-dollar check, essentially. And Fabio really muses to the camera like, is this dude serious? Did he really say the quiet part out loud?
[00:27:06] And so, yeah, it's- Even though we're not talking about the Goldilocks situation, I think Sash is a key example of why Fabio's ability to analyze his own image worked so well for him. Was that Sash was somebody who did have the quote unquote
[00:27:21] resume, if you will, but also goes to show that resume doesn't mean everything. It also depends on the job interview, and it depends on the way you come across in said interview. And I think Sash was just somebody who fashioned himself
[00:27:36] a smooth operator, but everyone saw that he was so smooth he was slick in a manner of speaking. And as a result, he had really, I think, turned a lot of people off by the time the final Tribal Council came around. I think that's right.
[00:27:49] So smooth, he was slick and unable to hide his more abrasive qualities. Not to mention, this is all hearsay, but I will put out there because it will involve a jury member. I mean, there are rumors, rumors. There is no fact-based stuff in this, nothing verifiable
[00:28:08] as of this moment, but there are rumors that Sash did and had made an illegal bribe with Jane where I believe he said if he would pay her mortgage on her house if she gave him a jury vote. When production found out about that, they pretty much
[00:28:24] scrubbed any sort of mention of it. People say that's a reason why we don't see a lot of voting confessionals nowadays, especially the one they used to have them be like completely uncut and released in full online. We don't get that anymore because if there are things
[00:28:39] that were done on the show that we did not see, that's where that kind of stuff could come out. So yeah, Sash also may not be much like he was not well regarded with the jurors. He may not be well regarded with Survivor, the show itself,
[00:28:51] even if he wanted to come back. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's a little tiny element of me that thinks, oh, I wouldn't mind seeing Sash play again, which isn't there for Chase, but I don't want him, I don't want to give him one of my precious three nominations
[00:29:08] and nor do I think the community particularly wants to see him back, if I may speak, for the entire community. All right, well, we've got a couple more to give out and I think we can look upon maybe some more favorable possibilities here. Look at them.
[00:29:20] Look at these nine individuals. We have an order of elimination. We have Alina, the 100% grade A Dirt Squirrel. We have Marty Piambo, former chess champion, or so he wants you to think. We have the Black Mamba herself and the only returnee from this season in Brenda.
[00:29:37] We have our two quitters in Nayanka and Purple Kelly. We have Ben Benry Henry, which is still one of my favorite names in Survivor history. We have the aforementioned fan favorite of the season in Jane Bright. We have the late Dan Lembo,
[00:29:53] and we have the person I want to start with here in Holly Hoffman because we're going to hit this period of season, Sarah, where we kind of encounter the same beats of here is the older woman brought onto Survivor, emotionally crumbles within the first couple of days,
[00:30:10] has a hashtag Survivor breakdown, but then recovers and becomes a pivotal player in the season. Perhaps it faces its most extreme case in the form of Holly, whose emotional breakdown also involved destruction of material possessions in the form of Dan's shoes. But Holly was having a tough time.
[00:30:28] Ironically enough, she was going to be the very first person who wanted to quit in this season, which was full of that type of attitude. But Jimmy Johnson talks some sense into her before he himself decides to leave the game.
[00:30:39] And I'm very glad that he did so because once Holly put her mind to Survivor, she was able to really blaze a trail or swim a trail, I guess, considering that she was a swim teacher at the time.
[00:30:51] And it should be noted, Holly was in talks to come back in the seasons after her first appearance. Apparently she was on the shortlist for Kara Moen. I believe conventional wisdom is that they might have picked Dawn over her for Kara Moen.
[00:31:05] Allegedly she was asked to play Blood vs. Water with her daughter, but her daughter's wedding was occurring that year, so she opted not to do it. Sarah, give me your thoughts on Holly. Well, I'd say, Holly, get your priorities right. Survivor over a wedding. Yeah, Kenzie did it.
[00:31:21] Why couldn't you, Holly? Why couldn't you? Look, I think she would be a terrific returnee. I love finding out in my tiny bit of research that I did that she had been in talks. She's only 58 now. You know who else is a swim teacher? Janet Carbon.
[00:31:38] Sorry, I was going to say Katrina Radke, first boot from Survivor Triple H. Me. Ah, there we go. There we go. I think it's also intriguing that she was called Mama Holly, which just sets my teeth on edge. But I think she herself encouraged that. She played that.
[00:32:00] She certainly played it with Purple Kelly as she gave her motherly advice not to quit. It's like, Holly, let them quit. And much like a mother of a younger woman, was not listened to whatsoever. Was not listened to at all. I think if you talk about journey,
[00:32:16] a phase I absolutely don't like. Oh, we're hearing everything I don't like today. I like lots of things, everybody. And one of the things I like is Holly. She came from so far behind, and you would think a sort of pathetic breakdown, stealing shoes, can't do it,
[00:32:33] older woman, I mean she was only 44 at the time. 44, yeah. Older woman, and that she came through to be the fourth place getter. And I would think seen as a threat because otherwise why wouldn't a strategic person like Sash have gone with her? Yeah.
[00:32:51] If he thought that she was so much softer than perhaps his fellow finalists, he would have taken Holly. The fact that he didn't speaks highly for her. That among other things speaks very highly for her. And I think she would be great to have back.
[00:33:06] I think she would have a confidence right from the start that she obviously didn't have here. And I think that she would want to come back, given what you've said, although Holly skipped the wedding. She said on Talking With T-Bro that she would absolutely love to.
[00:33:22] And so I talk about those other seasons to also show that it's not like production necessarily lost her number either. Granted, that was now going on 20 seasons ago, but it is still something that they wanted to consider her because
[00:33:33] yeah, I think especially in her career after the fact she has written a book. She's now a motivational speaker as well. So there's also a little bit of that fun offscreen narrative to bringing those aspects to the game and see how it would all look at 58.
[00:33:48] I think Holly would be a very fun person to have back. And look, Sarah and I talked about this beforehand. Nicaragua is definitely one of the seasons that's going to be more wish than real when it comes to putting people on this wish list.
[00:34:02] But let's then give ourselves what we want here, you know, let's bury any chances of Holly not returning like alligator shoes at the bottom of the ocean in Nicaragua and put Holly on the ballot. Yes.
[00:34:18] And if you tried that round my hood, you wouldn't live something or other. Anyway, she lived and she should be on the ballot. Yeah. And I also get to show to your point about what she considered a threat.
[00:34:29] I do believe that she was sort of the secondary target amongst the minority Alliance at like final six and final five because there was a lot of talk of Holly will beat you in the end. She has this story.
[00:34:39] She has the older players on the jury and eventually it does end up sending her out. But yeah, I don't know how she would do in the final three. If the final three is like Fabio Holly chase. I think that is a fun exercise.
[00:34:51] I think Holly would absolutely give them a run for their money. I'm sure depending on, you know, the time of day with this Nicaragua cash, she could have won it. Well, time of day, it's true. They do change with the seasons, but she's the last older player
[00:35:04] and the last woman standing. And I think there would have been, you know, there's a possibility that she could have won a certainly more of a possibility than someone like sash. All right, well, let's move on to her fellow highlight of the older. Let's talk about Mr.
[00:35:21] Farty himself. Let's talk about Marty because Marty was obviously the biggest wheeler and dealer on the Espada tribe. He was digging those holes of all the other players with his Espada that he held. He seemed to be one to dictate the Wendy Joe boot,
[00:35:39] the Jimmy Johnson boot, especially the Jimmy T boot. And so he was sitting in this mighty high position. And then the swap happened. Oh, Marty. Marty and Marty swapped into a minority, and he does have his closest ally, Jill, and he does have an idol.
[00:35:54] But that's about it because Jane immediately jump ship outs. Then Marty has an idol. Marty is somehow able to survive through bluffs and inexplicable decisions by the younger members of that tribe. He makes it through to the merge where his neck is very much on the chopping block.
[00:36:13] He's still trying to make moves, but he doesn't last very long going in 11th place. Marty has been somebody that people have been talking about wanting to see for a while, especially around again, that carom and blood versus water session.
[00:36:27] Obviously, I think now he is definitely more long in the tooth and probably more long in the hair and as spiky. He is 62 years old. I'm not excluding that to put him on the ballot, but I do think maybe his sweet spot from a realistic perspective of coming
[00:36:42] back would have been in those five or six seasons right after he played. Yes. I mean, I wouldn't object to him being on the ballot. He's not high, but he's one of my six. I think that, again, watching it, I don't know if you know, everybody,
[00:36:58] I watched it again. I was surprised at how early he went out. In my memory, he stays longer. So I think that he was very pivotal, integral, whatever you want to say, certainly for the pre-swap and for the pre-merge.
[00:37:15] Once he gets to merge, I mean, he was scrambling in the post-swap and now he's drowning basically. I think that he failed to make connections later on and he thought that he could get through by force of will, which he had done in the early going.
[00:37:33] So he didn't, unlike Holly, he didn't adapt his game as circumstances changed. But he was such a fun personality. I mean, look back to the fact that we all now know who Guillermo Villas was. The fact that he just randomly takes advantage of the theme,
[00:37:52] pulls on this name from the 1970s to dupe Fabio in the moment to show how intelligent Marty is, is such a fun beat. He was just such a great villain, I think. And he very much leaned into it as well.
[00:38:05] Not to say he was trying to come across as duplicitous, as maybe some of the players would want you to believe, especially Jane in the way that she was talking about him. But he was also happy, in fact, elated to make moves
[00:38:20] when he had the runway to do so. So it's that potential as well of kind of cut down on his prime in a way, but also has the ability to game if he has the assets that makes him such a fun returning.
[00:38:34] Marty is somebody that would probably be on my personal shortlist, but we will get to that in a little bit. We'll get to that. I wouldn't be mad. It's the sparkle in his eye. There's something about his relish with which he plays
[00:38:46] and sort of openly making moves and being strategic in a way that perhaps Sash wasn't. All right. Well, let's finish off, I would say, the trio of older players that made up The Jury. Again, Dan, may he rest in peace.
[00:39:02] Let's talk about Jane, because Jane is the Rupert of Survivor Nicaragua in many ways. First off, why are you bringing up my name, Mike? Oh, Cookie Monster making an appearance. I can only do him as Cookie Monster. Yeah, I mean, listen, Tie-Dye Cookie Monster
[00:39:22] is a good comparison for Rupert. But Jane is someone who is incredibly skilled in the outdoors. She provides for a spotter early on, which puts her in a great position. But she also makes much like Rupert did some avowed enemies early on, does not approve of that Mr.
[00:39:38] Farty in the form of Marty will play the game alongside him the entire time and will hate pretty much every minute of it trying to throw him under the bus and get rid of him at any opportunity. But in the meantime, she then completely falls in
[00:39:53] with the younger crowd. You talk about Mama Holly, but Mama Jane was very prominent during the late pre-merge and early post-merge of this season. She makes this big bond with Chase as well. And then the worm turns at the final six when Fabio wins immunity and everyone's like,
[00:40:13] everyone kind of loves Jane. Should we get rid of Jade? And Jane pretty much prematurely smuffs her own torch by putting out the fire, had that very fun moment of I started this fire, I'm going to put it out. But I think that more so reflects again,
[00:40:29] speaking to the Rupert aspect that apparently the edit showed a much more palatable version of Jane than the version we got out there on the island. Hence why she won the sprint fan favorite of the season. I don't think that stuff comes from nowhere.
[00:40:45] Smuffing the fire, calling people names. I mean, we love her sneaking off into the woods and making her own fish. That was brilliant. But the Chappie's Diner walked so that Jane could run here. Yes. In a time machine? In a time machine.
[00:41:04] I'm happy to have Jane in a time machine. Look, I'd love to see Jane back. She's 74, so she's not out of the running to play. I'm sure she's fit. She lifts 80 pound dog. She tells us on multiple occasions during the show, it's like, okay, Jane, calm down.
[00:41:20] I think if she came on again and we got what you are now saying is the real Jane, a little bit more unedited, I think that would be more acceptable now than it would have been at the time. There being the older woman being cast as the mother,
[00:41:35] I think that her way of playing was just, I am great, can't you see? So she was affronted when people either did see it and voted her out or didn't see it and voted her out. I can see why the young people liked her.
[00:41:52] There's fantastic scenes of her saying, well, someone can get water if they want to, and them all lying around, all the young men lying around going, yeah, we'll get right on that, which is the exact way to deal with someone like Jane, I think.
[00:42:04] Yes, I'll get straight on that. I wonder if she would like to come back. It seemed a bitterness at the end that, as I say, cards have come from nowhere. Yeah, so she has revealed that I believe she's been asked to come back
[00:42:19] a couple of times, probably around the Marty and Holly era of like, again, it's tough that these people just missed out on like a Heroes vs. Villains. I don't know if they would make the cut, but Jane would be like
[00:42:30] a pretty big shoe-in for Heroes vs. Villains too, if they did it during season 30 as an example. But I believe that she was asked back for blood versus water and got cut, probably Cara Moen, maybe even Second Chances, and got cut. Jane is 70 now, so not the,
[00:42:49] would actually probably be the oldest person that we would put on the ballot. When she was asked, I'm just reading a random article on WFNY News 2 from like 2017, when asked if she would play again, she said, if they don't wait too long,
[00:43:04] you never know when your clock is going to quit ticking. I don't know. I personally feel like the time for Jane has kind of passed, and I feel like there's more there to a Holly and a Marty in terms of potential from a Second Chance than Jane,
[00:43:21] where I think especially if you watch Nicaragua from the lens of what we talked about with how maybe her on-island perception was not what matched up to her fan perception, I think you got everything that you wanted to on top of her being
[00:43:34] allegedly involved in this, this, you know, entire thing that might also remove her from consideration as well. If she was on a Heroes vs Villains, which tribe would she be on? I think she'd be a hero.
[00:43:45] I think that it doesn't matter the way that the players view her. Again, people did not like Rupert on the island, and Rupert was like the number one hero with a bullet on the Heroes tribe. Yes, yes. Look, I think I love Jane.
[00:43:59] I was toying with the idea of would I see her, would I see her again? And it's almost like, as you say, yes, I would have liked to have seen her again if I may be so grammatically circuitous.
[00:44:10] I think that it's not just being 70, it's just that, look, listen, no one from Nicaragua is coming back. But if it was a Holly or a Jane, I think it's Holly by a mile. She had a broader change. She had a more, I think, a more interesting,
[00:44:31] she had a more faceted character on the show, edited on the show. So Jane, I love you. I loved you, but maybe not on the ballot this time. All right, Sarah, we need to talk about these two because. I'm so excited.
[00:44:49] Yeah, this is the thing that Survivor Nicaragua is most remembered for, which is the back-to-back quits of Nianca and Purple Kelly walked out hand in hand and were treated in exact opposite ways by production Nianca up to that point was the character of this season.
[00:45:05] She was saying outrageous things, doing outrageous things, had an idol, was in power and then decides to up and quit in the middle of it. And Purple Kelly, on the other hand, is now a Survivor term. That she was given that little content.
[00:45:22] The very few she was, was, you know, memes, confessionals about how her elation at the fact that you can milk your own milk on the reward and that there's nothing left to suck. And so both walked out. Production was incensed. Fans were incensed to the point where they,
[00:45:38] Jeff was livid where they instituted a rule where now anyone who quits during the jury phase will no longer sit at it. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 fire tokens. What is interesting, Sarah, is that both,
[00:45:52] and especially one in particular have expressed interest in coming back to Survivor. Of course. Can I jump into Nianca and say that always? Yes. He said to her, do you want to keep going or do you want to be a quitter that no one
[00:46:11] remembers? Oh, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, I would love to see Nianca play again. And I cannot believe that I'm alone in that. No, you're, I mean, you're definitely not. I think there are people. I mean, I adore Nianca as a character.
[00:46:30] She was unabashedly herself, you know, veering on some wild territory when she wrestles Kelly Bruno to the ground as they're carrying a basket to grab an idle clue, her farting in confessional, her one-sided rivalry with Fabio for seemingly
[00:46:45] no reason, though she does vote for him in the end. She was just an outrageous character, but was such an interesting person to watch because also that got parlayed into somehow her being at the top of
[00:46:57] the power structure in so many of these votes and Nianca has made an incredibly concerted effort as of late when that news came out for Survivor 50 Sarah, I'll be honest. Nianca might've been the person I've seen the most like really put herself
[00:47:14] out there. And when she talked about it, even before that, I'm talking with T-Bird a few years ago when asked if she would play again, she said, I totally would because I need my redemption, not just for myself,
[00:47:24] but for my fans to see me actually start something and finish it. I'm not going to say I'm a different person because I still will play a hard game because that's just me. You guys will probably get a smarter, tougher
[00:47:35] exterior than the like than the last time. But hell yeah, because I know things now that I didn't know that I know what can happen if you were to quit, but they made it a rule. They called it the Nianca rule. She's going on to like the Jalinsky
[00:47:51] logic of like, well, I'm a legend because they coined a rule after me from now on. So Nianca really wants to do it and has shown as recently as a few months ago that she is up for it.
[00:48:03] Purple Kelly said in her quarantine questionnaire that she would want to. I mean, she was the youngest person on that season. And so she was 20 years old. Clearly she didn't watch a lot of Survivor. She was put in a very unfortunate situation where now sort of come out
[00:48:16] after the fact that because maybe she was checking a certain box as a casting archetype, she was basically put in like a sundress and a bikini during one of the most miserable seasons from a rain perspective in Survivor history. And so she was just wet and cold every
[00:48:32] single day of those like 26 days that she was out there. But this begs the question, Sarah, we just saw how Jeff Probst reacted to quitters in season 45 to the point where he has sort of come back around
[00:48:48] to the stance he gave to them and he gave to Austin back in season seven, where he said if someone quits a tribal council, their torch will not be smuffed. Your wish will not be granted. Nianca, we
[00:49:00] will just like leave it on the side. That's what you deserve for what you do to this game, which again is broad brushing there. So do you think at this point in time in the franchise
[00:49:12] they would be up for bringing, I wouldn't say all quitters because there are certain types of people that I think would possibly get consideration, but quitters like Nianca and Purple Kelly back to the game? Well, I mean there's Jeff, there's production, and then there's fans
[00:49:28] and sometimes they are aligned and other times they are not because I think there would be a huge roar of approval if Nianca was brought back. I think, I mean I've certainly changed about quitters myself. It's about consent and agency and people should
[00:49:48] be allowed to quit and no that was not your spot. When people say they took my spot, no, no it wasn't your spot. It was their spot and they are allowed to do whatever they want within the rules with their spot, which includes quitting.
[00:50:04] When I watched it again I was thinking don't quit, maybe this time I watch it and she doesn't quit. Now you need to get in the time machine. Yeah, I need to get in the time machine because she thought she would quit and then she rallied
[00:50:16] and I thought, yeah, she just needs another rally. And that wasn't enough to pull her out of her funk. It's very strange the way Jeff says that, Gulliver. I think that she painted herself into a corner. I think she would have stayed
[00:50:32] except that she said she was going to quit and so then she felt like she couldn't go back on that. She's 41 now, I'm sure that some of those insecurities which made her dig a hole and then
[00:50:44] dig the hole deeper and then dig the hole deeper, which we saw and were very entertained by but could be quite painful to live through. Those might have been smoothed out. They may be more. I think the interesting thing about her is we've
[00:50:56] seen chaotic players before and since but not, there's a smartness and a strategy in there as well and I think that combination makes her very juicy as a possibility to come back. I think Jeff would just say no, just outright no
[00:51:16] put his foot down. But as we say, maybe it might be true that nobody's coming back so let's put her on the ballot. This would be the ultimate wish for me because I think especially if she comes back
[00:51:28] what she basically promised in that talking with Tiber quote was like yeah, I have maybe a better perspective and I value the game more but also I'm still going to be Nyanka at the end of the day. That's the happy medium, that's the Goldilocks
[00:51:40] we want. That's the Goldilocks, she is the Goldilocks. Do you think Purple Kelly would have quit? I agree, I agree. Yeah, absolutely I agree. So there was a little bit of a folly there as well. I think Nyanka probably
[00:51:56] bolstered by Purple Kelly saying if you go I'll go and it seemed very teen girls to me then even though they weren't exactly teens. I'm trying to remember the sequence, I'm pretty sure is it that Nyanka is the first one to
[00:52:08] speak up at that reward challenge about it and then Purple Kelly joins in like oh yeah it's basically saying oh yeah are you ordering Chinese food can I get a couple cups of chaste rice in there to bomb off for my lunch
[00:52:20] so yeah and I think Nyanka, well Purple Kelly I do think there should be a little bit of justice for the story that unfortunately befell her out there. Nyanka has so much more of a story and so
[00:52:32] more good TV than Purple Kelly. Look Purple Kelly gives us Purple but she did say something which I wrote down, I don't want to be seen as a quitter that's not who I am and my response to her which I said out loud is it's literally who
[00:52:48] you are. Literally. To millions of Americans that's who she is. But it's also you quit so you are a quitter. Look I'm sure it was very hard, you do need inner resources you do need endurance, I mean
[00:53:04] all of these things and they are built over time which is why older women are completely unstoppable because of the build up endurance physical, emotional, mental and I think that you put any young person there, you take away all their support systems, you wash
[00:53:24] away a beach and you make them really cold. I'm not blaming her for quitting but I just don't know why anyone would want to see her again sorry Kelly. Alright well let's talk about yes people are probably asking Mike why did you take so long to talk
[00:53:40] about the actual person who has returned from Survivor Nicaragua in Brenda and the answer to me is just Survivor Kara Moen where Brenda, I was very excited to see her come back
[00:53:52] I do think she was someone that much like Marty ends up getting cut out from under her especially considering that I think again another consternation that the fans have with the season
[00:54:00] is that we take out these two big character power players and Marty and Brenda and then we have two people immediately quit afterwards which you see Brenda and Marty reacting pretty viscerally on the jury Alina cries, I had completely forgotten it. Alina is
[00:54:16] sobbing. But so Brenda does come back for fans vs favorites and it is really a dial from 1 to 100 where either she is incredibly quiet and like the only thing we really note about her is how she's cutely dancing to pastries while she's on the bench during Hot Pursuit
[00:54:36] but then things really ramp up in the penultimate episode where you know she is involved with Dawn and the entire loved ones switcheroo and then Dawn ends up turning on her alongside everybody as they realize that Brenda is a huge threat towards the end, incredibly
[00:54:52] likable out there even if it doesn't come across to us due to her under editing so she gets cut there, is devastated goes to the final tribal council and turns that right back around on Dawn culminating in one of the uglier moments
[00:55:08] in final tribal council history. For what it's worth Brenda does finish second in the fan favorite voting though I think a large portion of that is because her boot episode literally airs right before voting
[00:55:20] opens and so I think people felt that Brenda was so robbed no matter what they thought of her that they wanted to give her that money. Brenda also is like the cherry on top of the cacophony that is the Caramoan reunion when she
[00:55:32] skypes in and does the reveal of the baby bump. I could see why people feel, especially some with some people, in the wake of her Caramoan performance that they felt like okay this is a villainess that we could see come back and just read these people to filth
[00:55:48] I just feel like for me I got what I needed of Brenda from Caramoan. She had her moment in the sun and then the rest of it was largely in the shadows in terms of editing. Yeah, capsule carbon copy if we
[00:56:00] hadn't seen her again she'd definitely be high on my list. I just feel like we've seen it, not anything bad about her but we have seen what she can do whereas with other people that we're talking about
[00:56:12] today and you have been talking about in the past and well in the future, there are people that we haven't seen everything, that we're intrigued and not just that we haven't seen everything but we haven't seen everything now 10 years later
[00:56:24] or 14 years later or 8 years later. What are you going to be like? What will you bring us? And I feel like with Brenda it would just be that. We've seen it tick, done. So yes, I'm a no on Brenda. Alright, spare thoughts on
[00:56:40] Benry or Alina. These are two again kind of interesting people in that Alina allegedly was in the mix for South Pacific, which is wild. The 100% grade A Dirt Skrull is apparently in talks of being a returnee two seasons later. I think Alina
[00:57:00] is fine. I don't think she necessarily sticks out as much as a bunch of other Nicaragua cast members I would bring back for that Benry. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Benry because Benry is sort of like
[00:57:12] Maddie from Gabon for me where I think on paper you look at him and you're like here's generic good-looking man number 69. Let's put him on a season of a middle era season of Survivor and watch
[00:57:24] him do at least pretty well, but he had some personality to him again. He's the one that came up with the Dirt Skrull iconic confessional to describe Alina and I always feel like Sir we talk about the sliding door from the previous
[00:57:36] season of if the villains had voted out Sandra instead of Courtney what happened they vote out Benry here because they feel he's going to be a bigger challenge threat than Fabio. So if Fabio gets voted out here, there's a
[00:57:48] sizable chance Benry is the winner of Survivor Nicaragua. Look I think I hadn't thought that before but now that you said it makes complete sense thus everybody building up Fabio's winner equity in that he knew when to hold back.
[00:58:04] Yeah, so Benry also should be noted Sarah. Do you know that he has a connection in your neck of the woods? Oh, yes, I do. Yes, I do. It's gone out of my brain. So his brother is married to Flick two-time competitor from Australia
[00:58:20] Survivor. Yes, Flick we love Flick. So great but no Benry I mean great name and here I was Benry baby. But honestly sorry, Benry and Alina if you'd asked me to name people from Nicaragua. I would struggle to remember their names. Alright, well, let's move into the premerge
[00:58:44] portion here and maybe we'll talk about some of those other names that you might struggle with in retrospect, but we have of course the iconic first boot Wendy Jo whose husband told her before going out there that she would be the first voted out
[00:58:56] and he told me he told me I'd be the first out and she proved every sense as to why he knows her perhaps better than anyone in the world. We have Shannon which we don't need to talk about. I do
[00:59:08] find it ironic that we're talking about him during Pride Month. I'll just say that we have the Jimmy's in the form of Jimmy Johnson. Of course, I would say the most famous person to ever appear on the show. I don't know how much
[00:59:20] American football. I don't know how much American football has permeated your consciousness Sarah but like this was a big deal. This is one of the most famous coaches of the most famous sport in America. Well, the reaction of the other members of the cast gave
[00:59:36] me the idea about how big he was. We do have Jimmy T who had such a fun rise and fall in the game I have a mind to put like Jimmy T as an honorable mention but also
[00:59:48] we're going to probably put Malcolm on the ballot so I feel like that's representation there. It's time traveling Malcolm if we remember. We have Tyrone who I think he wanted to eat the chickens and he gets eliminated at the swap. We have of course Kelly B the second
[01:00:04] ever amputee player who goes in still one of the most confounding decisions in Survivor history for me where they tie the votes between Kelly B and Marty at the double tribal council but then the younger people decide to vote out Kelly B instead because they feel that
[01:00:20] her story makes her much more of a threat towards the end despite the fact that they're in episode six. It still absolutely bum puzzles me we have Eve who unfortunately I would say is one of the lesser
[01:00:32] remembered people but I think she's one of the only people whose name starts with a Y so if you're doing a Survivor alphabet. The one player I do really want to highlight is Jill. I really like Jill. Jill was
[01:00:44] her and Marty were really running that Espada tribe together. Jill was able to decipher the Idol clue which if you remember back in the day they were trying to make like Russell proof idols where they actually made Jordan Kalish style some Rebus puzzles to figure out where
[01:01:00] to dig for it. Jill was able to decipher it. Marty was just the one to get his hands on it and that screws her in the process as they decide to get rid of her right before the merge but I always thought she was someone who was
[01:01:12] physically capable. She ends up winning that individual immunity when she really needs it and clearly from a social and strategic perspective she was running things alongside Marty he would be the first to tell you that so I always thought that Jill is somebody
[01:01:24] that we should look back on as like a very solid pre-merge player. I couldn't agree more. I was very pleased to watch her again. Her social strategy was to tuck herself in behind Marty's wing as it were which is annoying that women have to do it. They still
[01:01:44] have to do it and they certainly had to do it back then in life as in Survivor so she picked a good strategy she just didn't count on his questionable loyalty I think. Alright, well Sarah we've done
[01:02:00] a lot of introducing this but now it's time we finally put pen to paper here as long as we're not going to quit before we end up deciding this short list. I'm not a quitter, it's not who I am.
[01:02:12] There we go. We're going to figure out who's going to be on this list. Now some names have been thrown out and I think we're in pretty good agreement about at least a few
[01:02:20] of them. Why don't you start throwing a name that you want to put on the short list? Well, can we take Nayanka as written? I would put Nayanka on there. Alright, good. Let's do something that is honestly one of the least likely people that would appear
[01:02:36] on Season 50 but this is more so for the fan vote than anything. Yes, of course. And then I sort of have four. I even put Eve in there because I'm intrigued because I think we saw nothing so either she gave nothing because if it's good stuff
[01:02:52] it's shown or she was what we saw. Jill, I think I would give honorable mention there. I would say Holly. I've got a short list of four. Fabio, Holly, Nayanka and Marty. You know what Sarah? Maybe it's just my middle purgatorial
[01:03:12] 34 year old self. I'm feeling charitable. Can we throw four on there? No, it's against the rules. No. Sarah, you'll see from many of these seasons that we're getting to in between us recording and these being
[01:03:24] released, it is in fact more a rule than it is not a rule at this point. Yeah, episode one I think you didn't have three people. Yep, and then from then on it was like we're playing in open
[01:03:36] waters right now so I am more than happy. I think you've made good cases for Fabio, for Holly, for Marty and for Nayanka to all be put on the ballot here. I have no problem with it as well because
[01:03:48] again only one person has been brought back for Nicaragua so there's a lot of potential to be explored and I think all of these people are ones that we can certainly talk about and vote on in terms of potential. Just to introduce some ages
[01:04:00] in there as well again as a bit of a reminder. Fabio is 35. We have Holly at 58. We have Nayanka at 41 and we have Marty at 62 which I think still falls within the upper lower limits of actually I think Fabio is probably the youngest
[01:04:16] person we've put on this list so far at the time we're recording this. Oh wow. Look, I think other than the fact that we think that they're a good four, I am also mindful of my community, the fans, and I think the fans would enjoy those four.
[01:04:28] Don't at me if you wanted somebody else. I mean you can send me a message. That's not going to stop them from trying. They're plowing through like that three pigs challenge they did where the men happened to match up against the women.
[01:04:40] Oh my god. I'm sorry, when the women hit the brick wall and all bounced off. I'm sure it hurt but I did laugh. That's the thing is that Nicaragua is a wacky season. It really ebbs and flows. There isn't
[01:04:56] necessarily a consistent through line but I think if you're watching it episode by episode there's a lot to take away including these four contestants as season winner Fabio our fallen angel Holly one of our quitters day on and one of our power players Marty
[01:05:12] thrown on the list here tomorrow Sarah we are actually be producing the last podcast of the week because of the July 4th holiday we are taking the rest of the week off and we are going to redemption Island. It is the return of Boston Rob and Russell and
[01:05:28] 16 people around him to essentially coronate Boston Rob finally winning on his fourth try because the game is flawed. So I am very intrigued. Is there anyone on your short list from the redemption Island cast that you would want to see come back? Oh Mike I didn't not
[01:05:49] Boston Rob and not Russell. Tell me who you would bring back and I'll tell you if I agree. Well, I'll tell you that tomorrow I'm not gonna reveal magician doesn't reveal his tricks before they're done and I'll be joined alongside with a magical assistant
[01:06:05] by the name of Christian Hubecky which will be very fun the control of Slamtown will be running the numbers with me to figure out who from redemption Island will join this short list. I think it will put
[01:06:17] the short in short list just getting a glimpse of this cast. Yeah, I mean if there's one not be surprised. All right last thing Sarah really quick. I almost forgot who from Nicaragua would you want to put on another reality show besides Survivor? Oh, I think I would
[01:06:33] like to put Nianca on any reality show at all put her on the traders. I would love to see Marty on like when they inevitably do the American adaptation of the genius. I would love to see Marty on there because
[01:06:49] he's someone who has been working in corporate America. I think he was high up in Yahoo at the time that he did Nicaragua. I believe he works for Zoom for a brief portion of time. So I would love for him to bring that sort of like white
[01:07:01] collar cerebral aspect to something like the genius that it deserves yes with a full tummy with a full tummy hopefully and then otherwise put Benry on like buddy games just surround him with all his other portmanteau named people I'm sure he has friends like I don't know like
[01:07:21] mouth Michael Ralph like I'm sure that he's friends are all people who mush their first and last names together and that's how they nickname each other put Holly on squid games Holly on squid games could be fun because I think she
[01:07:33] could absolutely do what it takes to get all that money at the end. But for now, she is in the poll alongside Fabio Nianca and Marty Sarah. Thank you again for talking Nicaragua
[01:07:45] for what the second time in five years will check back in a few years to see how you're still enjoying it. What would you like to plug for the listeners out there? I would like to plug another show here on our HAP called crime scene
[01:07:57] S E E N where every week the great Mary fourth and I talk about a true crime documentary or docu series and rate it out of five magnifying glasses. We watch it so you don't have to or we tell you that you have to
[01:08:13] there you go. So take the recommendations as they come Sarah and Murray do fantastic work, especially if you are in to true crime and hopefully none of you feel like it's a crime that we robbed anyone of their spot
[01:08:25] on the ballot. And I hope that no matter what this podcast was a a better viewing session than any amount of Gulliver's travels but we'll be back again tomorrow with Christian Ubiqui to finish
[01:08:37] off a short week of podcast as we take a look at the cast of Survivor Redemption Island until next time everybody take care. Bye. Bye.