Survivor 50 Finale Exit Interviews

[00:00:08] Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cesternino on the road here. I'm still in Los Angeles where last night I went to the Survivor 50 big finale. What a night! What a night! Still a great night and have so much to talk about in the aftermath of the finale and Survivor 50. If you missed it last night, I did do red carpet interviews both before and after the finale.

[00:00:38] We posted my interviews from after the finale. I got to talk to Aubrey, Joe, Rizzo and Tiffany on the red carpet. Plus, I also talked with Charlie and Camilla real quick, winners of the Mike White Prize. That video and podcast is already out.

[00:00:58] Then, also last night, Sam Phalen and Owen Knight were in the Know-It-All spot. They broke down the whole two hour plus finale and everything that came out of it. All the finale reactions. I'm about a third of the way through that podcast as a listener, but that's also out.

[00:01:18] Today, what you're going to hear is that we did normal exit interviews also this morning. I'm recording this after the fact, but I thought really great conversations. Everybody was really lucid and in varying degrees of excited or down. I really tried to meet everybody where they were. You're going to hear today my conversation with Aubrey once again.

[00:01:43] I finally got the chance to talk to Jonathan and I think that's a really interesting interview. Plus, I continued my conversations with Joe and Rizzo and Tiffany from last night. I thought that that was a really interesting way to do it. It wasn't exactly what I anticipated, but I really felt like I wanted to try to use this extended time today after getting to talk to them last night. Last night for me was about the immediate aftermath of the finale.

[00:02:11] We had the opportunity today to go back and talk about some of the parts of the game that were from the earlier parts of the season, things that we didn't get to see in as clear a focus. I think that these are going to be a little bit more interesting than the interviews that I did even last night because everybody was able to really be a little bit more introspective as we're starting to look back at the season.

[00:02:37] In case you listen to those red carpet interviews, like, wait, why do I have to listen to it again? I do think that there's a lot of new ground that we covered here today on these exit interviews. Plus, I am still working towards getting together with Steven, who is also traveling. And at some point, we will get into doing a proper recap of both the finale and maybe looking back at the season. I am here in Los Angeles through today.

[00:03:02] I'm going to be going to do a book signing with Dr. Christian Hubicki here in Los Angeles. And so I'm going to be headed home on Friday where I will do the patron Q&A coming up on Friday. So that's just what's coming up here over the next couple of days. But let's get into the exit interviews. And I'm very excited to bring you my latest interview with the winner of Survivor 50. Here is Aubry Bracco. All right. We are back together.

[00:03:29] It was, I don't even know, maybe it was 10 hours ago that I last spoke to this person. I don't know if she's gone to bed. Here she is. The winner of Survivor 50. She can't get used to me saying that enough. It's Aubry Bracco. Aubrey, how are you today? I'm wonderful, Rob. Thank you. It's good to see you again. Long time no see. Good to see you again. And again, this is under such happy circumstances.

[00:03:55] And I was telling you last night and that people should go out and watch that interview. We're not going to revisit all of that, but I'm just so happy for you and for your win. And given the last 12 hours, have you had any other time to put this in context for you? Oh, Rob, I've thought about this for so long and I'm just grateful. I'm processing it. I'm trying to soak in the love. I'm just trying to like be in the moment, which I'm always the best at.

[00:04:25] It's just such a beautiful capstone to 10 years. And I know so many people would love the chance to rewrite their Survivor story. I thought it was over after Edge of Extinction. I came to terms with it. I removed myself from the Survivor community. What a way to go out. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of thinking and consternation about your win and what does it mean. But you're no stranger to this because that's what it was when you lost and people thought about it and thought about what it meant.

[00:04:51] But for you, could you tell us in your own words that how do you feel like that your game here is different than the game you played when you started as a Survivor baby 10 years ago? Well, you know what, Rob? I was really proud of my game in Korong. And today I'm really proud of myself. And I'm proud of myself because I didn't necessarily go into Survivor 50 playing the game that I thought I would play.

[00:05:20] But I played the game that I needed to play based on what I was seeing in the moment. And it was more about my ability to see everything happening and to feel everything from all the different perspectives in front of me and be able to have the emotional regulation and groundedness to pivot and shift to play the game and meet Survivor 50 where it was. I know that's like a nuanced answer, but I went in thinking that Survivor is about this, this, this.

[00:05:48] And this time I went in totally open minded and I had the skills to adjust. I would expect nothing less than a nuanced answer from you. I'm wondering, as I'm hearing you say that, I'm wondering if maybe coming in in the position you did at the merge, I'm sure it was hard to be at the bottom. But did that give you like a better view of everything that was happening? Yeah, thank you for that. Yes, I thought about that a lot. I came in with no social equity at the merge. I had a really hard beginning of the game. I got off on the wrong foot.

[00:06:18] But the beauty of that is I was almost able to start over and start building those relationships. But it gave me that distance where I was, I would get close enough to people that they would keep me in, but not so close to them that I couldn't pivot. And I felt like I was kind of standing back watching the whole game, like the zoo exhibit and all these amazing animals. And I'm like, I'm in the zoo exhibit. But it really did. Like, it's so funny. My survivor application says, how would you win the game from 2014?

[00:06:46] And I said I would play on the fringes so I could see everything going on. And I remember at the time Lynn Spillman was like, that's not a way to win survivor. And I was like, you're wrong, Lynn. It is now. I like to see. Yeah. That, you know, it's so interesting that you, there was so much talk about, well, Jonathan is a new era player, but he's playing like old school. And I thought that you really owned last night that like, hey, I'm an old school player, but I'm playing more in the new era. Do you feel like that the game came around more to meet you where you were?

[00:07:15] I know you changed a lot, too. But did the way the game is now also help your play style? I think the way the game is now helped my play style. I do think in ways like Korong had moments that were like new era coded in a way. When I look back at it, I'm like, oh, yeah, like it was totally normal there to take out Debbie. Everyone said she's in your alliance. Why would you? But it would be so acceptable in the new era. And so like it just was like this perfect meeting, like right time, right place. I let it come to me. I'd step to it when I needed to.

[00:07:45] I felt like I was dancing with the meta of Survivor in a big way. I thought about the meta game so much. It's a thing. OK, well, listen, I love to hear it and I would love to talk more about it even after this. But, you know, I owe you an apology on probably a bunch of things that I got wrong about your game. But let me talk about the idol, because I said, you know, Aubrey, why are you playing the idol right now? You could say to people, hey, listen, you want Rick Devins to get an idol, even though it was really from Christian.

[00:08:12] But you in the moment, you seem to know you said this, this idol, you know, is a scarlet letter. And you reference that again. And and I really felt like that that was so true. And I don't even know if you realize in the moment of how much it was going to help you get back under the radar. But it really, really did help you to not have that idol. You were not on the top of mind for people. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:35] I listened to a conversation you had, Rob, about the news cycle and how impactful that was in Survivor 50. And it was with 24 people. And I know social equity, like I said, coming into the merge. And if I had not burned that thing, I mean, did I want to play it? Hell no. Did I need to play it? Absolutely. Those people wanted that gone. And the second I did, like it would have been nice to play at the next one when Devins and I had our heads on the chopping block.

[00:09:02] But they would have felt clowned by me over and over again. And I didn't have those relationships. People needed to see that I would do what I said. I felt like at the final tribal council, Aubrey, that people were trying to. There was like there was a an attack being thrown at you of like, but did you keep any secrets? And I don't know if it really stuck. What were people trying to say about you? Yeah, it's so interesting. I felt confused by that in the moment. And I watched it when I watched back.

[00:09:31] I said, are you kidding me, Rick? Look at Emily. No way. And I was actually talking to Rizzo and he, I believe, I'm not sure I would need to get people to confirm because this was just told to me this morning. It may have been that people thought I gave that idol to Rizzo on New Calo and didn't believe that Genevieve had. And I always just was like, it was definitely her. It wasn't me. So it may have stemmed around that. It may have been something about that because I didn't understand in the moment. Yes, I did share information.

[00:09:59] It was playing the middle, but I didn't think I was talking more than other people. You said last night that you were sick at the start of the game. Can you talk a little bit about what you were dealing with? Yeah, I mean, I'm not trying to make excuses. I was like deathly ill with some upper respiratory thing. I think Mike White was really sick at the beginning of the game. I got something from somebody on that plane. I was hacking my guts out on the barge and I just didn't want anybody to know. So I was definitely like feeling it at the beginning of the game. That compounded with.

[00:10:29] Yeah, what a rough start. Yeah. We all saw it. You know, during the season, there was a lot of talk about you and Genevieve and that the awkward interaction. But I'd love to hear from your perspective of what was going on there. Because I really do feel like that now that we've watched this game as a whole play out, like I really feel like that there was maybe too much similarity there. And maybe there wasn't room for both of you to exist. Yeah, it's interesting.

[00:11:00] Oh my gosh, there's so much to say. But I did have conversations with Genevieve where she said that the island wasn't big enough for her and Sari. I remember having those conversations. They're like, oh my gosh. In my mind, Genevieve's name got, I said she was dangerous in conversations where people said Angelina was chaotic and Rizzo was lazy. I thought I was just having conversations. I also initiated that conversation where everyone felt I shut her out to try to work with her to say, can we have like a business meeting about this? Because it doesn't feel personally good.

[00:11:29] Clearly, I did not give her what she needed that moment. But I kept talking to her, Rob. I kept trying to talk game with her because I know currency, game, it's currency for her. And she also is very talented. She owns the narrative and social framing of the tribe she's in, 100%. She'd tell me she was working with me, but damn, I did not feel that way. There was a disconnect. It was bad. And when Tiffany told me it was bad, I was like, I was upset. I just like laid low after that.

[00:11:54] And the last thing I'll say about that is at the merge, I approached Genevieve and said, hey, we've had a rough time. Can we work together? There are bigger fish to fry. And the night she went home, I said, Genevieve, can we talk? And she said, I'm not talking to you. So I felt I did my due diligence trying to talk to her. I'd love to hear about your relationship with Sari, which coming out of Game Changers, we knew that you had a good relationship. And I saw her eyes light up when Rick and Christian told her that they gave you the idol.

[00:12:24] But then in the middle of the game, I feel like we didn't see outside of like right at the merge, too much conversation between you and Sari. Was there a lot more in that relationship? Because when she voted for you, she said, Aubrey, I love you. And it seemed like that that was a very warm relationship. But we just didn't see a lot of it on the show. Yeah, it is. It's such a warm relationship. I mean, I went into 50 saying to myself, I will work with Sari as long as I have to. But then she has to go.

[00:12:50] At the merge, she had heard that I called her a mastermind because I was trying to like at the beginning. Oh, I hate that. You've worked with her before. And she's like, I understand. But she said we can work together, but we can't talk to each other. And Sari and I have. I know how she moves. She knows how I move. I would be like, hey, Sari, this, Sari, that. Like we weren't coming for each other. So we had that relationship, but we already had solidified. She had solidified alliances. So we worked with each other as much as we could. But it was like a very under the radar.

[00:13:19] Like I can like wink at Sari and I'm like, all right, we're good. We're good. So it was a very almost like a telepathic relationship. But we both knew we couldn't sit next to each other. Yeah. And she seemed really happy for you last night. I think she was really happy that you ended up getting the win. And I want to talk about that. There was a lot about the Aussie vote in the final tribal council, where it was a little bit of a tug of war between you and Jonathan of who was trying to claim ownership of that move.

[00:13:46] And I think that Jonathan felt like, hey, this was my big move to take out Aussie. But I think that part of the nature of the power broker thing that was going on was that he would come in and then he would leave. And then it was really you who was there that whole time. Yeah, it's super interesting. I don't think there were a lot of unilateral moves in Survivor 50. I think we'll be turning this over for seasons to come. I think people played very specific roles like in different votes. And I think everyone always knew Aussie had to go.

[00:14:16] Like, yes, you brought up his name, but a lot of people have brought up his name. So I felt like I articulated the very particular role I had in that. I will not say that I got Aussie out all on my own, but I definitely think that I played my part that day. Yeah. I want to hear about Tiffany and the relationship you had with her, because it really did. It started off in the episode where then she tells you about that Genevieve is saying your name and she gives like a big moving speech.

[00:14:45] And she says, I'm not going to let Aubrey Bracco go. I love Aubrey Bracco. But then over the course of the middle of the game, again, we didn't see too much of you and Tiffany. How close were you over the course of the game? Tiffany and I had an amazing working relationship. She definitely like found her people and wanted that alliance thing. I know. See, I was aloof, like very strategically, Rob. I never wanted to get too close to people. Like on original Vatu, Angelina was going around. She's saying she was my number one. I was like, hell no.

[00:15:13] That almost happened to me on Game Changers and Sierra Easton. I do not want to commit. I really intentionally did that. So I had a good working relationship with Tiffany. And I said the first time when she was my survivor angel, I take her as far as I could go. And I hope she'd do the same. And she did. And she had my back at the end. And she is a ride or die person. And I love Tiffany. I want to talk about your win at the final four where you ended up winning some motion.

[00:15:37] And you told us that you actually bought a home game of some motion. And to me, that feels different than somebody practicing on the actual puzzle. But it's so cool that you had the foresight to do that. But I'm curious to know, how much other prep did you do? Oh my gosh. I did. I prepped for puzzles, Rob. I did some motion. The other prep is like, I took myself out of Survivor for seven years.

[00:16:07] When I knew that I could be playing, Rob, I listened to so much of you over the past year. So much prep for you. I also like this. The other prep I did is there's a podcast for the bachelor bachelorette called Game of Roses. I know of it. Yes. And they talk about audiences. And I'm a marketer. And I said to myself, you're going to go out there and you're going to win this game. And the way you're going to win this game is to remember that the only audience that matters if you're going to win are the other players.

[00:16:36] And I said to myself, I'm not worried about making the best TV. Yeah. And I'm not worried about like the production side, the audience of the players. So that and there's a guy who's named Nick Metzler, Doodles from Gotta Get Out, that show where they're all stuck in the mansion and have to escape, who talks about like when you make moves at different points in the game. I like randomly studied stuff he said and that helped too. I've studied everything. I just took it all in. After time away to take it all in, you come back with a different perspective. That's incredible.

[00:17:05] I did not know so much of that. So really cool to hear you say that. Now, will you say now whether or not you is, would you ever play Survivor again? Oh my gosh. It's so fun. I got asked earlier and got emotional thinking that I would never play again. Cause it's like, it's the addiction of like being in the moment. I think it's time for other people to play Rob. Come on. I just said, where can you go from here? Yeah. I mean, Cochran is doing Cochran. You are doing something right.

[00:17:34] My dear, like, you know when to stop. And I think I should take a cue for my good friend. I mean, I think you two have always been attached in Survivor history. And I think that that's something that he's always said. Like, well, how do you, how do you get better than this? How do you top this? He knows, John, you know when to say no. And I love you for it. Aubrey, do you have any big plans yet for the $2 million? Rob, I need some help. I got to figure out what I'm going to do for Rick Devins. That's number one. And then the rest of it is getting put away.

[00:18:02] But I got to do something fun with Rick. Man. All right. Really. Well, you're doing great so far today. I know you have a super long day of talking about this, but this look, this is the fun one. You've done, you've done this four times and you're going to have the most fun today of any of these post season days. It's been so fun. It's even more fun that I took time away from Survivor. And I'm back. So. Well, it's so nice to have you back. Thanks, Rob. Thank you for everything. All right. Thanks, Aubrey. Bye. Talk to you soon. Bye.

[00:18:33] Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel, maybe. Or white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. All right. We are here with Jonathan (Riz God), who came off of Jonathan. I really thought that you played a really, really strong game in Survivor 50. And I'm looking forward to getting to talk more about it.

[00:19:01] And I want to give you some flowers also, because, you know, I really feel like that nobody put more into preparing to go and do this than you did. And you took a game in Survivor 42 and you added to it. And I think that it was really incredible. You know, I'm watching these videos of you doing puzzles and walking across these balance beams. And I know how hard you worked to try to take this all the way home.

[00:19:30] And so I just want to say that I do recognize all the effort that you put in into Survivor 50. Thank you. There wasn't a day that went by that I didn't think about Survivor for four years. That's true. I didn't think I thought about it every day. Yeah. And I think that sometimes it's hard for me in particular to, you know, watch you as a player because you feel like you're so different than me. But I think that the one thing that I feel like that I can relate to in terms of how you

[00:19:58] approach it is like, what can I keep doing better to try to win this thing? And so I just want to say that I'm really impressed by that from you. Thank you. I got to rewatch this a few times to figure out where to zig when I should have zagged, but I'll figure it out. Plenty of time for that. But I just want to know from you, how are you doing today after the finale? Oh, dude, I'm hurt. I feel like I played a great game. I know I did.

[00:20:24] And I'm honestly, I've been contemplating and going back and forth on where I went wrong. But there, like you said, there's plenty of time for that. I just don't know yet. Yeah. But I'll figure it out. Yeah. But I just, you know, I hope that and I know this is really hard to have worked this hard to come back and to come up short. But I think that you don't have to look any further than Aubrey to, you know, think about the journey that she's been on and over 10 years to get back to this point.

[00:20:54] And, you know, it's hard for the person who doesn't end up getting those jury votes. But I just don't think that you have anything to be ashamed of. Yeah. Aubrey told me, she's like, you know, this game, I played like Michelle and you played like me out of her mouth from, I think it was Kageon. Is that right? Koh-Rong. Koh-Rong. That's where they played. And she said that to me. She said she switched her game like Michelle and that I played like she did. And that was an honor.

[00:21:23] So I just got to go watch that a few times, I guess, and figure out more about that. Yeah. Could you tell us a little bit about the final tribal council? Because I think that you probably felt pretty good coming in. Were you surprised at how any of the questions were coming your way from the jury? No, here's the truth. I knew that when the ball dropped, I knew that the jury was going to be bitter in a sense. And that once the ball dropped out of my hand, at Joe's hand, that it was in the hands of Aubrey,

[00:21:53] at least the women. That's what I knew that because I knew who I had to sit next to. I wasn't oblivious at any point in the game except the Charlie boat out. But I got my vengeance on that one. But I knew exactly what was going to happen. Yeah. I could have told you who was going to vote for me too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I did feel like that you had really strong support from the people that you worked with in the game. And then a lot of the swing voters in that jury felt like that they had more of the connection to Aubrey,

[00:22:21] who has this incredible body of work that you even mentioned in the episode of what a great story that she has. Thinking back, is there anything that you could have said that you think could have persuaded any other votes? Or was everybody locked in? No. There was nothing I could have said at Final Tribal that would have got any of them to vote for me because it was already locked in. I mean, you have five years, five seasons of watching Miss Aubrey. And I think that's what happened was that piled up.

[00:22:51] Instead of it being more of a what happened this season, you have an underdog story of Aubrey. And those past seasons combined with this season, I can't compete with. And that's just... And should it be combined with this season, that's up to you and the fans to decide. It's not up for me to decide. Yeah. I think what's hard for you is that Survivor really in the new era, really it's an underdog story that often is rewarded. And I think it's just always good.

[00:23:21] I got something to say to you about that because I was thinking about this yesterday. You said something about Joe and Devens that stuck out to me. And I agree with you. And it was... The tide has changed on the hero thing. Yeah. You have people like Joe who would have been the hero like Colby back in the day. But Devens, because he flips the coin, he does the things, he's the underdog. And the new era is about the underdog and about who is perceived to be the underdog.

[00:23:50] Not as much who is actually the underdog. Yeah. And that's a huge thing in Survivor right now is who's perceived to be an underdog. Yeah. And I think in the case of Rick in particular, what I'm saying is that whoever's like stopping at nothing and turning over every single rock in order to try to maximize the win, going for it as much as possible and never giving up. I do think that that's what the show really highlights as the hero. I think it's just hard for you to ever be seen as the underdog in... You got it.

[00:24:19] It's not what you can do to change your game and try to do better, but it's a game that's built on, hey, this is for the little guy, for the little girl who's come up in the end, like you saw with Marianne and the journey that she had in Survivor 42. And it's really tricky for you. And I'm sure you'll give it a lot of thought. It's a tricky thing for you to untangle. Yeah, because I don't... I think you said it best.

[00:24:48] I don't think I can be looked at as an underdog. I think that image is a big deal in Survivor regardless because it goes back to primal thinking, like how you look. That does matter. Hey, there's a whole season called David versus Goliath. And everybody who's watching is saying, hey, I'm rooting for the David. It's something that's built into all of us. And so I just hope that, you know, you don't look at it as much like you did as much wrong.

[00:25:18] And I really feel like that you should be proud of the effort that you put in. Thank you. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about the way that you were trying. Aubrey called this like disarming a bomb of the order of which you have to take people out at the end of the game. Is there anything where after Ozzy, you would have done things differently in terms of trying to get people out in a different order?

[00:25:43] Oh, looking back, I would probably have gone Aubrey, then Tiffany, because I wouldn't have guessed that she would have five balls going for 15 minutes on some ocean. And I mean, that blew my mind. She had it at home. She practiced. Yeah. And like that, and looking back at that, I would have done Tiffany first. I mean, there's several things. You can't play like that, though. Right.

[00:26:09] Because how am I supposed to know she's got the replica at home and then the fans voted for some ocean and for fire making? It's like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I can't even you can't fathom to just guess at what's next. So, yeah. What did that mean to you, though, to be able to come back and at least exercise one demon of that you won the final four fire making? Oh, Mr. I mean, even from the from the beginning, I played my heart out. I'm not I'm not.

[00:26:40] I'm very happy that the fire making was one of the things that I conquered. But strategy was another one of those things on my shoulder that bothered me like about season 42 was there was so many more moves that I could have made. And I had such an I was like, well, maybe that's why they didn't show any of my moves on season 42 is because of 50. And maybe God has a plan for me because there's 50. And it's hard to see that maybe me losing two million dollars. There's a grand scheme of things.

[00:27:08] But I'm sure there's a there's a plan that I just don't see yet. There's a movie. Have you seen the movie Signs? Yes. Yes. With Night Shyamalan. Yeah, there's like everything happens for a reason. Yeah, everything happens for a reason. So that's what that's what I think. This will be for something. Yeah. Jonathan, I'm telling you that I have been on this journey for many years of this. And, you know, I recently I was on the traders and I don't know if I was spoiled it for some people, but it didn't go. It didn't go great, Jonathan.

[00:27:36] And I really I thought that that was going to be I was going to come back to reality TV. And this was I have been away for 20 years and I'm going to come back and this is going to be so great. Right. And it didn't work out that way. And I said, but I don't understand. Why did why did this happen this way? I read a great book called The Obstacle is the Way. And even if you don't see where it's going now. You wrote that book? No, I did not write that book. No, no, no. I read that book. I read that book. Oh, my God. I wrote another book.

[00:28:05] No, I read I wrote another book. It's it's fine. But I read that book and I can't I can't recommend it enough because I think it, you know, I've read that book. Yeah. My favorite books. Yeah. Holiday. I don't know why I blanked it. That was a writer. But yeah. Yes. Yes. But I think that, listen, that at some point you'll you'll take meaning from this and it's going to help you get to wherever you need to go.

[00:28:29] And it may be a survivor win or it may not, but there are, of course, you know, there's there's so much to take away from this. And I just hope that eventually you really come around and feel good about the game that you played this season. Yeah. But like asking people like you is how I did better the second time around. So can I ask you what you saw that really needed help in my game?

[00:28:53] So I feel like that in ultimately it's the you know, you have the strength, you have the the strategic game. And I think that really it comes down more to, I think, winning over those people on the jury, the hearts and minds of the jurors. And I just I don't know exactly what it is right now off the top of my head.

[00:29:16] But the thing the first thought that comes to my head is like, how could you make the people on the jury feel like that you're doing it for them more so that you're doing it for you and that they have so much goodwill towards you? And maybe it's a little bit more of the season 42, Jonathan, of like, I'm here like to try to, you know, make everybody around me, you know, as as as safe and help to help them on their journey as much as possible.

[00:29:44] And I know that you are like ultimately like going for the win. But I think that if you were more of the person who made everybody else feel good and comfortable, I know that that was part of what you did. That's just the I think it's just a matter of just making the jury feel like your win is their win as opposed to, hey, you're the the big guy that we're up against. Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:12] Sometimes I feel like that is inevitable. And that's where that's where like, I try to define that line where I don't want to be the big guy period. Why do you think I wear baggy clothes all the time? I don't even like being looked at. I don't I don't want to be looked at as the big guy. I've never looked at myself as the big guy. Yeah. So like that's that's something that I try to not even put into the story. Yeah. So I think you're right. Jonathan, anytime you want to talk more about this.

[00:30:40] I'd love to whether it's on or off a podcast. Hope you're doing OK. And I just want to say again, job well done. And good luck with the rest of the day today. Thank you. You got it, man. Take care. Bye. Bye. All right. We are back with Joe Hunter. And Joe, it's only been nine, ten hours. It's the last time I talked to you. But I've already gotten a lot of nice feedback about the conversation that we started last night. Oh, great. That's good. Yeah, that's awesome. That's good to hear you got. You got a big web, man.

[00:31:10] So like a big net, I should say. Yeah. And that means a lot. Hey, and I have to say that you seem the most bright eyed and bushy tailed of any of the people that I've talked to. It seems like you look like you won the game last night. Yeah, I feel like I did, Rob. I really do. Yeah. I feel like I did. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about that of the positivity that you've taken out of this experience?

[00:31:35] Because I feel like that's going back a year where you had a similar fate that I feel like that you didn't necessarily look at it the same way. And did you learn something from that Survivor 48 loss that helps you recontextualize the Survivor 50 game? You know, Rob, like honestly, and you helped me do this with some of the things you said on your podcast, because I do peek in and look and I respect people that, you know, have

[00:32:00] a really good kind of well-rounded view of this is that, listen, on 48, I didn't realize the impact of Eva and I and what happened. You're under this kind of umbrella of that moment, right? Where like you're almost protected from some of the analytical pieces of either one of our games, because we had such an out of game experience that was, I feel by some would say, you know, pretty impactful in the game of Survivor, right? That you couldn't script that.

[00:32:26] So what it did was I feel it kind of made us both, I'm not saying it in a negative way at all. It just, you know, we weren't just free of this kind of the criticism of our game because we focused on that. And what it showed me, Rob, is I got into this game for my sister and I, after that season, I was so disappointed in myself because it was the only season I knew. And then I got to experience hate. Then I got to experience things like, you know, criticism.

[00:32:55] And then you, the good, the bad, the high, the low. And I just, coming into this season and then now what has just happened, I'm at a job, Rob, we're like, I may not come home. And I mean that. And I'm like, what are we really bitching about? And what changed for me this season is like, I'm just proud of myself, buddy. Like, I know it isn't everybody's cup of tea and I know I'm not, they can talk all the crap they want, man. But I'm just, I'm truly just me, man.

[00:33:25] And I'm just settled in that, buddy. I really am. Hey, that's a really great perspective. And I know we take it so seriously, especially in the podcast world, and we give it probably more meaning than it deserves. But I think it's the right attitude of, hey, this is a game. This is a vacation away from the things that are really hard in life. And so you can't get too wrapped up in, you know, the outcomes of this. And I think that that's a really great attitude that you have, Joe. Thanks, man. Thank you, Rob. Yeah.

[00:33:55] I'd love to hear a little bit more from your perspective. You know, it's such a big story, the back and forth with you and Rick. And, you know, I've tried, like, I've been so interested in this, but I've also tried to also hold these two things of you guys are both dads. You guys have a lot more in common that, you know, you're both family men. You both have this incredible love for your kids and are like doing it for all the right reasons. But that with all those similarities, you two were just not on the same page.

[00:34:24] And so I'd love to hear from your perspective a little bit more about some of the things that you found to be maybe a little irritating about the way that Rick was playing the game. Look, I'll tell you this. And Rob, this is me. I'm going to be 100% transparent. Like, I love Rick Devins. It's this. This isn't meant to be. I mean it. And the biggest regret of the game is how I handled that first, like, not even argument. It just got, I mean it gained legs.

[00:34:52] And it's like, at the end, Rick's a great dad, a great human being, a great husband. I have nothing but, I cried when I talked to his family. Chokes me up thinking about it because it got, it has this view now of like, Rick was not, that wasn't the thing. It's just, Rick was one of the best people to play the game, Rob. Like, he is outstanding at what he does. And I hadn't played with a player like that. So, it's not wrong. It's, Rick should play that way every time.

[00:35:21] But I also think I should play my way. And I think that we need all of it for Survivor to work. I think what happened is like, we're two alike in the moment. We're starving, we're hungry, and people can't accept that. It's like, yeah, man, you've never fought with your spouse. I hate to say that. And it's like, ooh. And then looking back, you're like, I shouldn't have said that. Because I love you. That's really how I view that. It was like, it wasn't that. There's others that was way more tension-driven than that was like, ugh, we're never going to let it down.

[00:35:51] And I just want to say that because Rick is brilliant. And to be honest with you, Rob, the best move in this game is that Rick and I have been able to get over that. We would have shocked the world. No one would have seen that coming. And that's for the future, right? I mean it. And I would love to play with Rick. We just couldn't get out of each other's way. I love Rick. You know, it might be fun to see you two both come back. And then maybe if they listen to this, they'll see it coming. But probably most people wouldn't.

[00:36:21] But you know, I really, I went back and I watched that a bunch in the beginning of the season. And I really felt like that, I really could see it from your perspective because I feel like that your worldview on the game is, hey, trust is all you have in this game. And Rick does have that with his core. But to me, you were asking him about, hey, what's the plan? What are we voting for? Why wouldn't you tell me about this four-person alliance? And he was sort of being evasive about it.

[00:36:48] And I just felt like that you were just looking for some clarity of like, but I don't understand. Why are you lying to me right now? And so I felt like that you just got off on the wrong foot there with that. You know, could I ask you a little bit more about the relationship that you had with Rizzo in the game? Because I think that that was something that maybe we didn't see as much of as it was actually a thing that was going on in the post-merge. Rob, like you do your homework, man. I respect you for that. Like it really is.

[00:37:15] And you have very intelligent and thoughtful questions. I appreciate you for that because the Rizzo moment was something that I, as I'm like, we had this moment on the merge between the lands and he tells me this story about his brother. And it was one of the most powerful stories I've heard from me in Survivor was about, it just, it didn't seem like he's playing the game. And I have these rules where I'm like, wow, that, that's pretty deep. You talk about your brother who has autism and I'm like, wow, man, like I do not like

[00:37:43] that is off limits to me in terms of like, I will always take that in and respect that. And I'm going to hold onto that. And man, it set us off. Like we, I felt like after that we played well, like I, we always had a safe landing. I don't know where that went in, in, in, in the story, but, um, man, we just kept, now I know he was playing the game and he is better strategically than me by far, but I felt we had this safe landing.

[00:38:09] And all of a sudden at the final, you kind of saw that it was like, Jonathan, me, you and Joe. And I, you, you saw his, and it came up in these, these spurts. And Ozzie said it in the, in the, um, little, little, uh, powwow we had there before he went home. Cause I trust my, my life in this game with Rizzo and Joe. And it just, uh, people are grabbing that that's not a random statement.

[00:38:33] So, um, we had built this really unique relationship where I could tell he was playing, but I also felt we had trust. Um, that was there. Yeah. I feel like that on, I believe it was the double duos vote where that, you know, you were left out of the vote and Rizzo was saying, Hey, we gotta, we gotta talk to Joe about this. And then on the Ozzie vote, there was a point when, and when Rizzo was being left out of

[00:39:00] the vote and you said, Hey, I gotta make sure that Rizzo knows about this. And so it did seem like that you two really were watching each other's backs. And I thought that that was interesting because I think that when, when you're at your best on survivor, I feel like that we see you as like a, a caretaker, a parental figure. And so I thought that that was, and Rizzo, we've seen him always looking for father figures in the game. And we saw it in his first season and with Colby.

[00:39:27] And so it did seem like that, that was like a really like simpatico relationship. You and Rizzo. Rob, like I want to point out to the viewers. Um, did you just see his connection between Rizzo and I with two different, different situations and able to make the connection of how one, and it's brilliant. People don't, I'm not just listen, man. No, I know. I know. Dude. Dude. Yeah. Like, so with that, yes, he in that moment, but relates back to the fire moment.

[00:39:56] When I, everyone was like, why, why Ozzie? I go, listen, man, it wasn't this tell Rizzo. He'll tell him. I didn't think Rizzo would spoil any plan. It wasn't like that. We had a different relationship. So it was more, I'm telling him like, Hey man, what are we going to do? Cause I'm thinking of the next day was like, I can't burn this kid and he can play the game. So I'm like, he has to be included in this. You're not, I'm like, he's not going to burn me.

[00:40:22] And, uh, from my knowledge of what, you know, I, I didn't think he ever did. Yeah. Um, yeah. You know, I told you last night that I thought that you were a really fun addition to the season of that. You were, cause you're so different than how the other people play the game. And I thought that's something that was, I thought as a viewer, that was fun, but maybe not fun for you was that I felt like that you constantly, the season went to tribal councils and voted for people you didn't want to vote for.

[00:40:48] And now I think that a lot of people probably at first blush would say, Oh, you know, Hey, uh, you know, Joe's just, you know, he's going to stick to his guns and, uh, the, you know, the integrity. But I think that more often than not in this game, you ended up having to just like, uh, swallow what you wanted to do and go with the group. Well said. And it was shocking to me. It was like this honor, integrity and this and that. I didn't have a plan or not, but I never mentioned it.

[00:41:15] I didn't, I didn't ever say I didn't do that. And it was crazy. I'm like, I couldn't escape. It was like anything I do. I was like, Oh yeah. Well, you know, he said he wouldn't do it, but he did. And then when I didn't do it, he's sticking to his guns. And I'm like, I can't, I can't climb out of this. Like if I'm Steve Urkel, you can't climb out of that character ever. Like he can't ever play the rock. And I thought to your point, Rob, it's like this.

[00:41:42] Um, most of the time when you saw me being stubborn, it was like, they were shoving a vote on me that I just didn't want to be a lackey. It's like, well, that's not the best for my game. I don't, I don't want to vote out Ozzy. I want Rick out. Cause he's a better player in the moment. Like, and so you're right. It was a hard transition for me. And that was me trying to play survivor. Yeah. I know that's laughable, but I was trying, man. Like I really was. Okay. And we were talking a little bit about your relationship with Rizzo.

[00:42:11] And also I feel like that your relationship with Aubrey was something that we didn't see as much of on the show until last night we saw with, uh, when she was bringing you to the final three, that did seem very meaningful to you. Can you talk about your relationship with Aubrey? Funny story for Aubrey. People don't know. I'm off in the woods jungle and I'm looking at the moment that I had with Eva from season 48, the fire making, I recognized the spot like, oh man. And I didn't want it to be a thing, but I was like, you know what? Like just get myself ready.

[00:42:40] And I turn around and from the backside of camp, I see Aubrey. She's hiding behind a bush. I hear Genevieve like Aubrey. She's like, and it was like, I saw productions view and she was like looking for an idol. Right. Yeah. And she runs off. Boom. And here I come into camp and she happens to like come out of the dust. And I look and I go, Hey, she goes, Hey, and I go, cause she's so real. She goes, Joe.

[00:43:10] And I go, Hey, I get it. Cause it was such a role. And I never told anybody. It wasn't a gameplay move, but we just, I would check in on her and she would check in on me. She goes, John, these people, we just had that. Like, you know what I mean? When it's like these people. And I'm like, go back to a girl and you keep doing you and I'm going to go keep doing mean, but like, I hear you like, I'm going to go back to not knowing how to play this game. You keep tearing it up, but like, and so we just like, I love Aubrey.

[00:43:40] Okay. I do Joe, by the way, congratulations on your acting debut coming up soon. Thank you. And I know that you have a lot going on, but have you considered a third time trip to Survivor? 100%. I, you know, and I would say yes. And Rob, listen, I know I'm not everybody's cup of tea. But, um, I get a thrill now. We need that. We can't have all the same. Yeah. And I, I want that Rob.

[00:44:07] Like I want all of us, if I could do this again, I would want the same cluster of just like randomness. Um, uh, absolutely bro. Like, you know, it's the journey. Yeah. It, it, Jeff and Survivor saved my life and I wish everyone could experience the journey. Yeah. All right. Well, Joe, uh, I really enjoy getting to talk to you and, uh, really congratulations on all your success and really incredible job in all of the work you're doing outside of Survivor because you really are making a really big impact.

[00:44:37] And is there anything that you want people to, uh, take a look at that you want to highlight right now? Thanks for saying that, Rob. Just, um, anyone that's out there worth it, you know, Joanna's law that we passed, it can help a lot of people as it helps prevent domestic violence and stage suicides. And then just the new Tyler Perry series is going to be pretty awesome coming up in the fall. But I just want to say to you, Rob, like if I don't get the chance to talk to you a lot after this, um, thank you for always just being who you are and, uh, ah.

[00:45:07] Yeah. Hey, uh, Joe, yeah, uh, thank you. Uh, you're always very generous, uh, talking about me and the podcast. I appreciate that. And, uh, congrats on everything going on. Thanks, Rob. All right. Take care, buddy. Bye. Bye. Bye.

[00:45:47] Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. while the Knicks carry the dreams of all of New York.

[00:46:14] The Eastern Conference Finals continue on ESPN and ABC. We have precious time, Rob. Precious time here with the man, the myth, the legend, R-I-Z-G-O-D. Here he is that he's bright eyed and bushy tailed. Do you go to sleep yet tonight? I probably had one hour of sleep. One hour. But I'm here. I'll run it on adrenaline just like I was on 50. You can handle it.

[00:46:42] Listen, you know about a quick turnaround from one thing to the next. And so you're ready to go. How are you holding up today? Honestly, Rob, I feel great. It's a little bittersweet because the last two years of my life has all been about Survivor. 26 episodes have been of the Riz God, year of the Riz God for me and my friends and family. So I feel great. Obviously, yesterday was very interesting. Another Survivor first that I'm a part of.

[00:47:08] But I think looking back at it, it's going to be a great moment to laugh at. In the moment, I was like, but I'm very I'm very happy. You know, I think it was an all time moment. I really do. I agree. And, you know, maybe I think it's between the Mr. Beast coin. And that I think is probably the most memorable moment from season 50. Well, we're putting that up for the Emmy. You hear it first. So, yeah. OK, that's cool.

[00:47:35] So I'd love to you know, we got the chance to talk last night and I thought we had a great talk. And, you know, I really I don't know if this is like making it about me. But one of the reasons why I have such a fondness towards you is that I really see so much of my younger self in you and how you have a love for the game. And so I just have all that's been always very endearing to me about you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

[00:48:05] I mean, like just being there and seeing the Sepia out of the woodworks at the finale, see Ben Dreeberg and all these winners, Sarah Lucina, Adam Klein, you name it. They were pretty much there. Parvati, Boston Rob, all that. It's been great. And, you know, for me, I started with Survivor Token Chains. I'm so happy they highlighted that. So sad JT wasn't there. Steven Fishback lock in. And I just love this game. And to know that I left an impact on the game, whether you love me or hate me, I'm a polarizing figure.

[00:48:32] And that's exactly what you need when you cast people on Survivor has meant a lot to me. Like, like I said, you hate me. You love me. But you can't deny the impact that I left on the show that I love. And that was my mission out there. Yeah. I'd love to go back a little bit through the game that we have a little bit of time this morning after talking last night. So coming in and starting the game, you ended up you seem like that you were kind of one of the people that was on the bottom at VATU. And again, like always, you really worked your way in there.

[00:49:02] Could you talk a little bit about the early days of VATU? I would love that. Yeah. VATU was very interesting because very early on, I saw the breakdowns just happening. Colby, Stephanie locked in. Genevieve, Kyle locked in. And Aubrey and Angelina were kind of locked in. So it was me by myself as one lone wolf in three trios and then Q's on exile.

[00:49:26] So when Q came back, that's when we really started to hit the ground running for me personally, because my first day was a little too much. I was asking Colby why he took Tina to the end. I'm asking Stephanie, how does she deal about her loss in Guatemala? I get it. I was just the, I was the annoying super fan out there. And then once I really started to get my teeth into people, I was very closely aligned with Genevieve that we didn't really see, which kind of sucks. But the reason why she gives me the idol is because she has trust in me and realized that, hey, I'm a good ally.

[00:49:54] And she probably could have blindsided me. So we were super closely aligned. And then obviously when Kyle gets medevaced, Colby and I and Q and Stephanie and Genevieve were kind of a buy some in that game. And unfortunately, I was super loyal to a lot of them. But as the pre-merge progressed, they were just getting knocked out, knocked out, knocked out. And the reason why I'm so proud of my early game is I was kind of a dead man walking coming into the game. Rob, you hear coach and exit press saying that he was writing notes to Colby to get me out.

[00:50:22] Preseason, everyone's like, we got to get this Riz God kid out. And to know that people's first impressions of me were so poor, but for them to all turn around and love me, for a good part of the game, at least, meant a lot to me. Hey, you did, you know, we were worried that, hey, this Riz God intro is going to really hurt this guy. But I think that it sort of helped you in sort of like people had like very low expectations of this guy. He calls himself Riz God. I'm going to hate this guy.

[00:50:50] And they met you and you won them all over. So great job by you. Now, you and Aubrey were on the same starting tribe, but I feel like that that was a relationship we didn't see a ton of during the show. But I have to imagine that you and Aubrey got pretty close over the 26 day game. Yeah, Aubrey is such a funny relationship because I love Aubrey. But in the game, man, I just felt that she was kind of floating, but like not floating with purpose at the time.

[00:51:20] I think she played a great game. Obviously, that's why I voted for her. But I just never knew where Aubrey's head was at. She always talked about having an open door policy. Well, I put era. Yeah. Open era. Look, she saw the future. She was the reason why 51 happened. But no, I didn't know strategically where she was aligned until the Aussie vote. The Aussie vote. Honestly, Aubrey, Joe, Jonathan and I kind of came together and said, listen, we're a voting block. So the final four.

[00:51:47] And then I had a sub alliance with Joe and Jonathan where we wanted to be the final three. Us three guys thought we all had the best chance against each other. And we thought we can be Aubrey at the end. She has not. She's won one immunity in her career, Rob, in four seasons. So we took the gamble against her and we obviously failed. But I had a great relationship with Aubrey out there. We were able to talk strategy, but I just didn't know where her head is at until the Aussie vote.

[00:52:11] You know, again, not to make it too much about me, but I saw some parallels to the Survivor Amazon finale with you where you're me and Jonathan's Matt and Joe's Butch. And here comes Aubrey Jenna Maraska. And, you know, sometimes you have a really good plan of how it's going to work out. I just need to get here and do this. And the immunities will throw that off. So I definitely, you know, it would look good on paper. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:40] I, I, I felt that out there to me once and people say, oh, if I won fire, did I have a shot at winning? Absolutely not. Aubrey just would have clean sleep to me and Joe. I felt I really lost the game once Aubrey won final immunity. Yeah. Yeah. We were talking about this last night. I think that Jonathan really had his voters, like he had his base locked in, but I think that there were people on the fence. And I think that you had a pretty competitive shot to be able to some of those votes. Yeah, for sure. I think Jonathan, I saw Jonathan, like you said, had locked votes, but the,

[00:53:10] early jury, like D and a couple of other people, he kind of mismanaged a little bit. And I felt like those are the jurors that I could get. I felt like if it was us three, I had Suri on lock. I had D on lock, Tiff. So at that point, it's what? Three, three locked votes. The battle is up there. And I think I could have possibly won. It comes down to like the Christian, Rick, Emily people. And I think you got a decent shot of being able to pull those people over.

[00:53:32] I want to go back, though, to where early in the season that I thought that this was going to be it for you, where Charlie said, hey, you know what? This guy, Rizzo, that he didn't vote for his number one. And maybe he didn't end up voting for his number one. Ultimately, maybe Charlie was right about that. But it ends up becoming a big subplot in the season. Did you know about any of that while the show was going on? Or was this all a surprise to you when you saw the episodes? Yeah, all surprised when I saw the episodes.

[00:54:01] From my understanding, Charlie just wanted me out because I was the OG Batu member. He thought it was the easy vote just for him to skate by, make it to the merge, find all his allies. And I try to work with Charlie. I mean, my girlfriend loves Charlie. So I went in there like we got to work together for Liz Scott, for the Swifties. And obviously he wasn't buying what I was putting down. And I recognized that. And that boat conversation, I was like, dude, Charlie's pressing me about information. Yeah, you got to go, buddy. And that's why I thought he wanted me out.

[00:54:29] I thought we had a great rivalry, a great arc. And then watching the episode and seeing all of this hoopla. I thought back to it, Rob. I was thinking back. I was like, oh, my God. Like, I guess me asking about Maria really was bad. Like, that was so bad. But it was so funny, like, looking back on it. So I had no idea until watching the episode. But also looking back on it, you couldn't have seen this coming, I don't think. But that really, like, destroyed OG Kahlo.

[00:54:53] Where then you ended up getting Dee and Camilla to blindside Jonathan. And then he has a vendetta against them. And then they were really never able to pick up the pieces. And so that was really the thing that just completely decimated anything that was coming out of column. Yeah, for sure. I think, honestly, like the biggest switch in the game was either the Mike White vote or the Charlie vote. Because it was kind of a domino effect, right? Once that happened, Jonathan started targeting Camilla and Dee.

[00:55:22] I mean, I will say even if, let's say, well, I guess if I went home, who knows what would have happened. But I think Jonathan still would have voted out Camilla at that blood moon. But who knows? A lot of dominoes and chips would have felt differently. For sure. Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about the relationship with Ozzy. You and Sari and Ozzy had this final three at one point in the game. But ultimately, you feel like that Ozzy, he said too much. And you turn on Ozzy.

[00:55:51] And it feels like that Ozzy seemed really down on you after that. Have you and Ozzy been able to reconcile at all? I don't know, Rob. Honestly, I think Ozzy's just dealing with, you know, I feel like this is my opinion. I feel like he really blames his loss on me, which ultimately sucks. Because I have so much respect for Ozzy and so much respect for the legends.

[00:56:18] And I'll say this. At Ponderosa, when I got there after losing fire, Ozzy basically said, you were losing this game regardless. You should have came and lost with me. And that's just not how I play the game. That's not how I see the game. So, I mean, I don't think we hate each other. But I don't know if Ozzy's the biggest fan of me. But I have nothing but love and respect for him. Yeah.

[00:56:41] It's a tough spot for you that there was a lot of talk online about maybe should you have stood up and told Ozzy to play his idol at tribal council? Could you have weaponized that? No. So I'll tell you exactly why I can't do that. Because Ozzy laid it out to Aubrey, his exact endgame. And I knew all this. Aubrey told me her endgame. So if I go out there and do a Natalie Anderson, Ozzy player idol, you know what's going to happen?

[00:57:06] Aubrey's going to be like, wow, Rizzo is a sheep that listens to Ozzy and did everything that he wanted. And if Ozzy's going to make the endgame because Ozzy, Tiff, and Sari were close, I would have lost. And everybody would have called me an idiot because I did exactly what Ozzy wanted. So I lost all my agency. That wouldn't have been my move. That would have been Ozzy sheeping me to make his move. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:57:28] You know, we talked about it probably a lot more in season 49 about the way that you really change the way people might think about the hidden immunity idol. And it was probably less of a talking point and a storyline in this season. But it certainly came up again where people know you have an idol. You have a known idol. And it's always like, OK, this is the tribal council. I'm going to play it. And people don't vote for you.

[00:57:51] And then you end up pocketing it and bring it back to, you know, is that something that you think that we will see moving forward in Survivor? That do you think that we've really changed the way the hidden immunity idol is used? I'd like to think so. But I think it's going to change. I think people's going to start targeting people. And I think what we saw with Aubrey at the early merges is what's going to happen again. Only because, you know, Rob, I'm very polarized.

[00:58:17] You have some part of the fan base that think I'm a brilliant player that was able to weaponize the idol. And you have some people that think I'm a zero vote finalist that just got lucky because nobody wanted to vote me out. I think we meet a little bit in the middle. I was so lucky to be insulated with everyone. The reason why I never had to play my idols is because I knew everything that was happening. I was aligned with the nucleus of the game both in 49 and 50 because of the information Soph and Sav and I were able to get in 49. I knew what to do. In 50, everybody was aligned with Seri. And you know who was Seri's number one ally? Me.

[00:58:47] So, of course, I knew when to play the idol. 50, I had less maneuverability with it because all I could do is play it on myself. So, of course, I'm not going to just burn it. I might as well just keep it as an individual immunity necklace. 49, I was able to want it a little bit. But I ultimately think the reason why I was able to do such a good job with it was because I knew where all the votes were going. And I don't know if that's going to be the case for the next idol holders in the next seasons. Okay. Last question for you today. You've been through so much in these last six months or so or nine months. What is time?

[00:59:16] But how do you go back to normal life now after this? Great question, Rob. Honestly, what I will say is I'm very proud about how I never lost myself. Not to even get emotional, but this game has meant so much to me. I love Survivor. I love everything that you guys do and what Jeff has meant to me. And this has been a dream for me.

[00:59:39] And I never lost myself throughout this whole process, whether it's the fan backlash or, you know, what people say online or anything. I went out there to represent so many people. I love my girlfriend and everyone. And to go back to normal is going to be it's going to suck a little bit. But I was always normal. You know what I mean? I'm not no celebrity. It's the kid with a dream. And I made that dream come true. Yeah, you did. Hey, listen, Rizzo.

[01:00:08] You know, that's that's that was beautiful. You got a good head on your shoulders. And, you know, I've seen many young people come through this and they don't all come out OK. But I think that you're going to be just fine. And you'd reach out anytime. OK, looking forward to many more chats in the future. Rizzo. Thanks, Rob. All right. Take care, buddy. Appreciate it, Rob. I'll see you for 51 coverage. Nice. Take care. Hopefully before that. Take care. Bye. All right.

[01:00:36] We are back here with Tiffany Nicole Irvin and Tiffany. Tiffany, how are you? I almost called you Nicole. I'm so used to talking to my mom. She's the only one that ever calls me by my middle name. She calls me Nicole or Nikki. But yeah, my name. Yeah. Nicole's my wife. And this was awkward for us because she was your winner. You were her winner pick also.

[01:01:02] So even if you would have pulled this off, it really I wouldn't have been able to take full credit because my wife, who has much better picks than me. She also she saw you also. So that's the winner. Oh, man. Should have been. Should have. Should have. Should have. Yeah. You know, Tiffany, we're blessed because we got the chance to talk last night and we talked a lot about everything that came out of the finale. But we have this time today.

[01:01:26] And I kind of wanted to go back to a little bit because, you know, I'm old enough to remember the era where we didn't hear so much from you in the season. And I saw that you had made a post way back when there was so much going on at Kahlo and there was strategy and all sorts of things. And I wanted to see if we could hear a little bit about that from you. Yeah, absolutely. Kahlo was a mess.

[01:01:53] Original Kahlo was a hot mess. So me, Camilla and Dee were obviously very tightly aligned. Coach and Jonathan were aligned. Charlie was really tight with me, Dee and Camilla. He was also kind of tight with Coach, Jonathan and Joe. Mike White. He was more with the girls. He was more with me, Dee and Camilla. Chrissy, she was with Coach and Jonathan from the very beginning.

[01:02:17] And to be honest, if we went to Tribal at any point on Original Kahlo, I think Chrissy would have been the first vote. It was just messy. But also what a lot of people didn't see was that me and Coach were actually really close on the Original Kahlo, which is why when he started throwing my name around at the merge, it was so jarring and so crazy. I'm like, are you kidding me right now, Coach?

[01:02:44] There are people on this island that hate you that are coming up to me asking me what I think about you and I'm vouching for you. And you over here telling them to write my name down. Like there were so many complicated relationship dynamics. Even me and Jonathan. Me and Jonathan were really cool. We were working together, which is why the Camilla blind side was so crazy. And then the dynamics of what happened at the Charlie vote out, it threw me off.

[01:03:09] Because if you guys would have seen anything about the Original Kahlo, how tight me, Dee, Charlie and Camilla were, it would have been even crazier. But it's kind of like it came out of nowhere for you guys because you guys never saw our Original Tribe dynamics. And I wish you guys could have saw the beginning of that story because the merge would have made so much more sense. Yeah. Well, it sounds like that the Charlie vote kind of came out of nowhere for you if Charlie. Yes. I remember being on the merge boat, leaving, coming back. I'm looking over.

[01:03:39] I see the boat. Charlie's not in it. I'm like, oh, my God. Because I saw the numbers. I'm like, oh, good. We got four Kyle over there. We're straight. Like we're going to be back together at the merge. We're going to be running stuff. So when they came back and said Charlie was gone, I was like, oh, man, Charlie was also actually somebody that I really wanted to work with. So my allies started getting chopped down before we ever got back to the merge beach. I'm like, I was already working behind the eight ball. Yeah.

[01:04:06] You know, I talked about this a little bit with Rizzo, but really Mike White and Charlie back to back really just completely kneecapped Kahlo. So and basically that Kahlo was just that whatever was left was fighting with each other. And it just was not a faction that was going to be able to make an impact together. No, not at all. Yeah. And it sucked because the people that I was closest to Mike White, gone. Charlie, gone. Soon as we get split, Camilla, gone.

[01:04:35] D, gone. I'm like, oh, my God. These are all my allies. I had to build from scratch. But it didn't seem as dramatic to the viewers as it was to me because y'all never saw how closely I was working with everybody or how much it affected me. Really started back at zero from the first merge vote. Yeah.

[01:04:57] So after the old Kahlo ends up getting swapped, you end up on this swap tribe where there are, you know, certainly people from your old tribe. But we are really seeing you with Aubrey. And so could you talk a little bit about what would happen if you went to a tribal council with that swap group? I probably would have went home. Yeah. Because I feel like that if I feel like that maybe. Yeah. Because Aubrey has the idol and I think that maybe she plays the idol.

[01:05:26] And I was worried for you during that time. Yeah. Yeah. I would have definitely gone home because Colby, Chrissy and Coach, I think they already had that going on and planned, you know, before we got to Kahlo 2.0. So that was already set in stone. Genevieve and Colby were close from original VATU. Aubrey was always on the out. I was lying with Aubrey. And while I was still cool with Coach, I was not cool with Chrissy and I wasn't cool with Colby.

[01:05:55] Nor was I cool with Genevieve. So we go to tribal council. Aubrey plays her idol. I go home. That's I'm confident that that's how I would have went, which is why I worked so hard in every group challenge to not go to tribal council because I said this is not a battle I want to fight. Nor is it when I'm prepared to fight right now. So we just not going to lose. Yeah. You know, I think that's also we were talking about your game last night and we were talking about how, you know, you really you call it like it is.

[01:06:23] But you are so well regarded among the other players. And I also think that there is maybe where we saw that people didn't even want to write your name down from the split vote. And I think that part of it is because that they like you so much. But I think that also I don't think that people want the smoke. I do think it's a combination of the two. Right.

[01:06:46] While I worked a lot harder this season to not give anybody smoke to their face, I said what I needed to say in my confessionals. But I do think it genuinely was the fact that people liked me from the point that I got to the merge. Like I told you, a lot of my original tribe had been wiped out. A lot of the people I trusted were gone. So I hit the ground running when it came to making alliances and friends.

[01:07:13] And I think one thing that I did really good was kind of giving people a safe space to talk to me, to talk about things that did not have anything to do with Survivor. Yeah. Be vulnerable. We're friends. Like, I'm your homegirl. Like, everybody felt that with me, which is why even when Coach was pitching my name, people were like, I don't want to write Tip's name down. I don't do that. I like her. Why would I have to do that? And Coach is like, well, do you want it to be you? Do you want it to be you? And because it's the first jury vote, people don't want it to be them. And they're like, all right, fine.

[01:07:42] But she's just a backup, right? But if D's shot in the dark would have hit, I would have went home. Yeah. So I want to talk about the blood moon. And, you know, I thought it was interesting in the blood moon because I know it was very traumatic. But, you know, it seemed like that people never really talked about writing your name down. It seemed like that it was always going to be Camilla. And I had assumed that maybe you and Chrissy had gotten closer and Chrissy was vouching for you. But in talking to you, it doesn't sound like that that was the case.

[01:08:12] So I think one thing that I did a very good job of this season and I didn't do the first time I played is that I had issues with people. They never knew. Chrissy did not know how much I didn't trust her. I mean, she knew to a certain extent. But by the time we got to the blood moon, I had the conversations that I needed to be had. People felt safe with me. Yeah. And I think that the reason Camilla went when she did is because Camilla and I are not like.

[01:08:40] I'm warm and fluffy. I know that sounds crazy because I'm the person that always speaks my mind. But that's why. You can be both. I can be both. And I think that that's why I'm able to do that because people understand that I will always tell you how I feel. But I'm going to do it with love. Yeah. I'm going to tell you how I feel. I'm never going to make anybody feel disrespected or unhurt. Camilla is not warm and fluffy. Camilla is straight to the point. She's direct. And she's funny as hell.

[01:09:07] But I think people just felt safe with me. Yeah. You know, Tiffany, there's a lot of secret lawyers in the new era. But I think that you might be actually a secret jury lawyer. Because I think that you really were so good, again, at the final tribal council. Like, I think that you certainly like helped make the case for Kenzie in season 46. And then I felt like that in the final tribal council.

[01:09:36] Certainly when Stephanie asked maybe a little bit more of a, you know, rollercoaster ride of a question or a statement, depending on your perspective. That was not a question. That was absolutely not a question. I was very confused. As you can see, the rest of the jury was also confused. Yeah. Wasn't that the craziest thing? I'm like, okay, can we be serious for a moment? What are we doing here? Is this jury or not? Because contrary to popular belief.

[01:10:06] Yeah. Listen, I'm not a bitter juror. I've never been a bitter juror. But one thing I do is take my jury duty as seriously as I do my gameplay. Yeah. None of that BS, that fluffy, that. What are, is this a Jonathan marketing propaganda? Or are we questioning the jury people on why we should give them our vote? Yeah.

[01:10:28] So something I've seen talked about from that final tribal council was that it seemed like that the jury was, was actually very vocal in terms of not necessarily like, hey, what are the answers we want to see? But trying to help make the case for the person that they wanted to see win. Was that your perspective when you were there? Or do you think that that's not a fair depiction of that final tribal council? I don't think that's a fair depiction of the tribal council for a couple of reasons. One, that tribal council was so much longer than what you guys saw.

[01:10:58] There were a lot of questions and answers that were not shown. I think what you guys were shown was like a very small snippet that gave you the highlights of what led to the end result. And a fair snippet of what happened. But also, I think the line of questioning that you guys saw, it was more so about people who were open that were looking for very specific answers that would help them make up their mind. We know what we witnessed. We know what we saw.

[01:11:27] We all knew what we needed to hear to help us figure out where we wanted to land our votes. We had very specific questions. Most of us were looking for very specific answers. Yeah. You know, you over the last couple of votes where whether it was at the final six and final five that you were really pushing for Aubrey to the person to go home and vice versa. And you started off the game in a very close relationship.

[01:11:51] You ultimately end up being a really strong proponent of Aubrey to win the game at the final tribal council. But was there any sort of hard feelings with Aubrey at the way that your game ended? I mean, not real hard feelings. Like, it's a game hard feelings. Like, frustrated. Like, you know, you're my ally. You turned on me. Like, girl, get out of my face with that BS. Like, you know, me expressing myself.

[01:12:17] But at the same time, once I was voted out and I realized that my role in the game had changed, it was no longer about that. Yeah. Nobody could ever accuse me of being bitter. No. Ever. Like, because at the end of the day, I respect Aubrey's gameplay. She got rid of me when she needed to. She pivoted when she needed to. And I think the reason why Aubrey got my vote is because I think she deserved it.

[01:12:44] And I hate to say it, but I told you so. I tried to tell Joanne y'all. You called it, yeah. I said, yo, I don't know why y'all are underestimating Aubrey the way that y'all are. Again, I think for me, that went down to some of the unconscious biases that I think might have been floating around out there. I look strong, but Aubrey and I are both strong. Yeah. Y'all are missing. Y'all are missing it here. Y'all looking at the muscles. Y'all looking at the immunity necklace wins.

[01:13:13] And the fact that I'm friendly, y'all are underestimating this girl. And she's going to wipe the floor with y'all. Yeah. But you would have wiped the floor with them too. Okay. I would have wiped the floor. I would have wiped the floor too, but I was, I would have rather wiped the floor. They already wiped the floor. I was just trying to, for me to get there and wipe the floor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they weren't wrong about that. No, they weren't wrong. They weren't wrong about me. You don't have to like it, but they weren't wrong. I don't have to like it. They weren't wrong, but neither one.

[01:13:42] You know, something that I think might've been maybe a big pivot point in the game was there was that challenge where we do the booth review. And then it turns out that you started late and they give the immunity to Jonathan and he becomes the power broker. But I was thinking about it. And I was wondering if maybe you would have had the same two people go out. You were talking about Emily for a while. You had talked about how Ozzy was a threat.

[01:14:11] Who would have gone home if you were the power broker? So I think it depends, right? Because ultimately the tribes were split based on a rock draw. I don't know what a rocks would have landed in five. The tribes can be completely different. However, if we're talking same tribes with me and Jonathan just swapping. Yeah. My targets don't change. Yeah. My targets don't change. Yeah. Because it seemed like that. That's not what I wanted anyway. Yeah.

[01:14:37] But I am grateful that I ended up where I am because I think that me not winning it actually worked out better in my favor because I was able to be there to protect Sari. Yeah. Yeah. I thought, you know, sort of of two minds where it would have been better or worse for you. I thought that you actually, you got what you wanted and you didn't get any blood on your hands in terms of that. But I do feel like that, you know, maybe Sari, she really wanted Ozzy just to flush his idol, but she wanted him to stay in the game.

[01:15:03] And I wonder if maybe that there would have been, you know, some way for her to get that. And you know what? Honestly, that wouldn't have been a bad outcome for me either because for me personally, Ozzy was a bigger threat to me because of the idol. I beat Ozzy in a challenge before. That's not what I was scared of. Yeah. The idol to me is a seat filler that's filling the seat that I could be in. So if Ozzy plays his idol, like I said, me and Ozzy were working together.

[01:15:33] We already were like, we kind of linked up after he came to me, told me he wrote my name down. We wiped the slate clean. We were working together. So Ozzy plays his idol. He comes back to the beach. I still get what I want. Yeah. Tip, I also thought you had the right idea on the Rick Devins vote of potentially trying to blindside Rizzo and keeping Rick Devins around as a shield. And Sari said, no, that was still a bad idea. I asked her about this. She said it was still a bad idea. Rick Devins was still saying to get out Sari. But I think that keeping Rick around for one vote does help.

[01:16:03] Yeah, I do think that in that situation, that's where me and Sari kind of like have differing of opinion because Rick was targeting Sari. He was not targeting me. So keeping Rick in the game would have been better for my game, not better for Sari's game. But ultimately, it could have been better for Sari's game too because nobody trusted Rick. They wanted Rick out so bad it was palpable.

[01:16:30] I'm like, girl, they still going to want Rick out tomorrow just like they want him today. And we could push idols. But everybody was so scared of Rick and his idol hunts that they were not willing to look past it. Okay, Tiffany, Survivor 50 has been sort of, you know, you're so much of what's going on in this last over a year. Well, what's coming up for you? What do you do next? Well, I don't know. I don't know.

[01:16:57] I mean, obviously, I'll play Survivor again if I ever got the call. But I mean, I'd be open to doing other shows. Yeah. I'm a competitor. I feel like it's like an addiction now. It's like a high. Like you playing like these games and you're meeting people and it's fun. Yeah, it is fun. Yeah, that's right. We get addicted and then we want to do more stuff. And so don't get upset. Maybe I can do that with you on traders. Yeah, maybe. I think you'd be great.

[01:17:28] I listen, let me tell you something. My heart still hurt when I got you out. Same. All you have to do is just say that thing you said. Different person. Different person. What are you? You're not wrong, friend. You should say anything straight there. Listen, listen, you could do my exit interview about that anytime, Tiffany. Okay. All right. And really, and you and Sari, I feel like that could be a show also. That was so fun. We've talked about it. Yeah. Okay. Please don't end me. Okay, Tiffany.

[01:17:58] Thank you so much. Of course not. Always great to talk to you and keep in touch. Okay. Take care. Thank you so much. All right. Bye. Bye. All right, everybody. There you have it. There are my exit interviews with the final five. I really thought that everybody did a really great job of being very introspective. And I really enjoyed all these conversations about everybody. We brought it. I didn't know what kind of shape everybody was going to show up in considering that we did this about nine hours after we left the live finale.

[01:18:28] But everybody had really interesting things to say. And I'm looking forward to talking much more about this season here with you all in the rear view mirror as we look back at Spiver 50. What a ride it's been. Thank you so much for listening. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye. Bye. Bye.