Survivor 48 B&B Ep 10 with Jordan Kalish

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[00:02:20] Hi everybody and welcome back to the RHA Key B&B for week 10 of Survivor 48. My name is Mike Bloom and I'm merely indicating the episode number. These are not necessarily jazz hands that I'm gesticulating with in the video version, because to be frank, not Garrity, we will get into an episode of Survivor that certainly was 90 minutes in length and featured challenges any person getting.

[00:02:51] Regardless of the excitement level of the episode, I'm very excited to welcome this panel in. No offense to our guests, especially my co-host here making a return after I, I wouldn't even, I guess technically cross country move. Yeah, like halfway. I default to Leona Boris. You made the biggest move of any Survivor affiliated person or player this week. We did it baby.

[00:03:18] You know, you can only make moves with the people you trust and I trusted Puya. We went across country and here we are in the beautiful city of Minneapolis. I don't know why it's so blue in my camera. We have already talked about this. Apparently I'm in some no voter like art film student art film thing anyway. So whatever. The point is, is that I'm here. Last week was absolutely so fantastic with Maggie and Laura, just breaking everything down from all of the challenges.

[00:03:46] So I was very happy that everything was well taken care of when my absence, but I'm so happy to be back to go through this episode of Survivor. That was an episode of Survivor. And of course, joining us here is someone that you hear week in and week out quizzing Rob's, you know, as well as a huge coterie of guests about Survivor seasons past. But here we're bringing him into the present to not talk about seeds, baby, but bars, baby with this musical episode.

[00:04:16] It's Jordan Kalish. How are you doing, guys? It is great to be back here on the B&B. I did not bring the whole coterie with me. I left them home in my seeds factory, but I'm happy to be here and spitting bars as always. Unfortunately, the bar queen herself has left us on Survivor, but it's good news whenever you can go full bloom and full Boris on the B&B. There we go. I did not know where that sentence was going at all.

[00:04:46] Honestly, Jordan, you had me at seed factory because that could be a nice euphemism for your testicles. We're back, baby. Let's do this. We did it. We could talk about an episode that gave us blue balls here. Oh, my God. You have a PE teacher on the podcast and a lot of the talk about some of the strategy or maybe non-strategy also revolved around another PE teacher.

[00:05:12] So balls are in the air and we're ready to go. Here we go. I mean, listen, there's a lot to juggle here over the course of talking about this podcast. Let's just be completely cards open here. That seems to be the play style of this season. It was not a good episode of a Survivor 40. I think we can all call that out.

[00:05:35] I think I use this as an opportunity to remind myself how spoiled we have been in the 90 minute era of Survivor in particular. That, again, some would say 45, 46, 47. A very strong stretch of seasons, if not one of the strongest three season stretches that we have ever had. And you can tell when there's a lot of stuff to get into. OK, perfect. This is what the extra run time is for. Even if it's not. OK, there's like these fun little character moments to maybe help supplement that. This unfortunately was.

[00:06:05] And look, I have seen as of late that IMDB has rated this the worst episode of all time. And I'm not completely surprised, nor do I think it's correct, considering that I don't think IMDB users, with all due respect, would know what a six out of 10 rating looks like if it slapped them in the face and spat on their feet. Like, clearly, it's got to be the best or the worst thing. But I think what's interesting is that, hey, I do not think this is the worst episode ever.

[00:06:33] And what I would say more so is that. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Of Survivor ever? Yes. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. OK, sorry. Go ahead. I just need to clarify that. No, no, no. The whole like all of Survivor ever. Yeah. But I think that it does remind me of some of these episodes that we have seen in some of the lower rated seasons. And not to say that this is like a completely lower rated season yet, but like ones where there really isn't a lot going on. There's a majority in charge.

[00:07:03] They get what they want. The minority either chooses to not push back or fails in doing so. But it gets sort of condensed down into a 42 minute format. This is very much like the one exception to the rule of 90 minute episodes making everything better in that it was abundantly clear to me, Jordan, that they were really trying to kind of fit 60 minutes of content, even maybe less so in a 90 pound bag.

[00:07:29] And the results were mixed at best, depending on how you feel about, you know, the various musical stylings of this cast. Well, yeah, they were definitely teasing us for maybe the first half of the episode of, oh, this is the this is the revolution that we've all been waiting for. And there were some there was a logical path to get there. Right. Because not only do you have the four people that are on the bottom, you have one person who's in the majority whose secret number one is in the majority. So, I mean, who's in who's in the minority.

[00:07:59] So this would have been an episode where you would have thought that maybe Kyle and Camilla could come out here and say, you know, Kyle could jump with the bottom feeders and say we're working together now. I think maybe the rationale is that we still can do that at seven. Right. Because if Kyle flips over, it's it's then he can he can still flip on Joe, Shaheen and Eva. But they are loaded right now. They have Eva has the immunity idol.

[00:08:27] Kyle, she has the safety without power, which actually would be a bad idea for her to use that in this episode, because I think it would take away the numbers from her from her side, which I don't know. She knows that Kyle is she should know. She should know that Kyle and Camilla are close because David, who got loaded out, sort of warned them about this. So I think that the trajectory was there, but it was all a tease. Right. It was just the first half of the episode. And then it just became, oh, are we going to get rid of star?

[00:08:55] Are we going to get rid of Mary? And they decided to go with star, which is unfortunate, because I think every time we at least got star on screen, it was a great confessional. I think she was one of the more entertaining players of the season. And I'm sad to lose her. I will actually let me let me correct myself. So at the time I saw this fact on Reddit, which was on Saturday, the 48 episode was the lowest rated. It is now not.

[00:09:21] I believe it got bumped up to a 5.7 overall, which I think is lower than the first few episodes of 41. And I still think the 39 merge episode is the lowest rated on IMDb at like a five. OK, that's correct. Good job. High. High. No. OK, so I think I think that's really apt, Jordan. I think to lose both either whether it was Mary or star, you're going to lose someone who's really fantastic and confessionals.

[00:09:49] And then because, you know, once you kind of got to the point where it was like, OK, it's definitely going to be one of the two of them. I think the episode loses a lot of energy. But I will say I think the first part of the episode, though, was really interesting to me. And I don't know if any of this is true, but some of the context like I'm trying to put together what everyone's endgame vision looks like, because obviously we're not seeing the underdogs come up and have this big revolution as much as star wanted it to happen. But then I'm like, OK, but so what is Mitch's game plan?

[00:10:19] Right. What is Camilla's game plan? What is Kyle's game plan? Because we see this very solidly from Joe and Eva's perspective, but maybe not so much from everybody else. So things like Kyle had a confessional in this episode where he talks about how, well, this is what I think the jury is going to value. And we can see how, you know, he doesn't want to backstab anybody because he feels like, oh, I'm not going to get any jury votes. So there's little moments like nuggets of information that we're getting. But I have to sift through so much just to get those nuggets.

[00:10:48] Yeah, I think that it's and this is where the 90 minutes does come in handy is because I think, again, if you did a 60 minute version of this episode, we wouldn't get Kyle's perspective. I don't even know if we get Mitch's perspective about like, well, I can't do this because I can't trust star. Like maybe we just cut the tribal council. Oh, the plan didn't work. And then we find out after the fact or through exit press, Mitch saying like, yeah, I never trusted star because she voted for me. So context definitely helps, even if it does prove to, you know, sort of frustrate in the moment as opposed to latently.

[00:11:15] What is so intriguing to me about all of this is that at least on paper, it looks like this is one of the most like spelled out end games in the new era. But subsequently, I find it's one of the most open pools for winner candidates in the new era, at least from the discourse that I have been seeing throughout this season. And I've seen so much back and forth as to, OK, it's got to be Joe. Wait, no, maybe it's Eva.

[00:11:45] OK, could be Shaheen. Maybe Kyle's doing this outside chance of Mary, maybe even coming through Camilla. A lot of people were supporting her early on. And that's what's so weird to me is that, again, the editing has been tough to put a finger on to the honest point in this season, even with this most recent episode in Star.

[00:12:03] We never truly got a sense as to like what she was doing to cause people to be so unnerved and untrustworthy of her to have Joe kind of like vaguely call her his kryptonite for something that she doesn't necessarily know about either, even to this day. But I think when it comes to painting, you know, the top four or five people as winners, Jordan, it does seem like a fairly wide open field where even if we somehow do get to that point where this ruling four ends up as the final four.

[00:12:33] It's a big question mark as to who ends up, you know, king or queen of the season from there. I do. I do agree with that. And it's it's not always about the about the destination. It's it's the journey. So I still want the destiny. I want the journey to still be good. Like we might get to a final four where, oh, all four of these people had a shot. But if it's sort of boring and sort of like a done deal of like who gets there, it's going to make me care less out of those four who wins the game.

[00:13:01] So I do think like somebody in this group, my guess would be that they would win the game. I guess you can maybe see Camilla taking it because of her connection with Kyle. Maybe if Kyle does flip over at the next vote, Camilla is seen as the one who maybe caused him to do it and maybe get some of the credit, which I think would be deserved. So out but outside of that group, I really like it's hard to imagine Mitch winning the game as well as likable as he is. And he always gets these confessionals.

[00:13:28] And Shaheen said one in this episode of like, oh, he's hilarious and we all like him. But he's not there was like there was a scene where like, oh, I think it's Star or Mary who's talking about people not playing strategically and they flash to Mitch. Like they're not I don't know if they're doing that to the winner. But I mean, I don't know. I could be wrong. Mary, I think, has played has played a fun game. I just don't see it either. And I don't think it would be a shock if she were the next one out.

[00:13:55] I think that would sort of really dispel any any chance that the underdogs have of making a move because then the numbers are totally gone at that point. So I do think that one of those players at the top are going to win. I can see an outside shot for Camilla. She was, I think, heavily shown in especially that episode where Thomas got voted out, where she and Kyle were both incredible. And I would like to see one of those players win the game.

[00:14:20] But if they don't do it here, if Kyle is just like, you know, sort of stringing Camilla along saying, oh, yeah, you're my you're my number one ally. We're not we're never going to talk or vote together, but you're my number one ally. And then they just end up voting out Mary. And then Camilla goes, I think that's sort of a boring game. And I think that can actually that's something that could actually turn Camilla against Kyle if she's a juror and he's in the final three. So I don't think that, you know, Kyle can say, oh, I mean, I'm going to do jury management. I guarantee that I get Camilla's vote.

[00:14:48] I think if he never actually works with her, then what was the point of having this whole secret alliance? And I think it's almost better for his game to make the move now at the final seven, which you can. You still have the numbers. You pull in Mary. You pull in Camilla. You pull in maybe and Mitch if he's willing to do something. But I don't know. The fact that I think the only saving grace that I can see here, why Kyle and Camilla would not be willing to do it at the final eight?

[00:15:16] But they would be willing to make the move at the final seven. If they're saying if they're forming a new five and like you have Kyle and Camilla and the other three, are they thinking now we're the bottom two in this final five? Where if you jump over with four people and then make a move against Joe, Shaheen and Eva, now you have a final four where after the final four, there are no more moves to be made. So maybe they're thinking this is a better final four group, but it's very dangerous because of how loaded Eva is.

[00:15:42] And if Joe wins immunity and Eva has any inclination that they're making a move against them, Eva could play her safety without power. She could give her idol to Shaheen and save all three of them at the next vote. And then the rest of the players are screwed. So I hope that that doesn't happen. I mean, actually, that'd be good TV. Maybe that's what we need. But I do think it's a it's a dangerous majority that they could form because of how loaded Eva is with advantages.

[00:16:10] Yeah, I mean, we know, obviously, Shaheen in his sneaking around at night skills, him and Joe, you know, obviously, no, the question would be, I can't remember when Eva told them all. She told Kyle also, right? Yes. So Kyle does know about the safety without power. Yeah, she told everyone in the strong alliance but David about safety without power. Right. OK, yeah. So so then that like that's the thing, right, is that the underdog alliance knows about all of those advantages.

[00:16:38] Obviously, star giving which, by the way, oh, my God, star giving away her idol to Eva. Apparently earned nothing, which again, also goes back to the what what the heck was star doing that made her so distrustworthy? I saw none of that. I have no idea. Maybe critiquing Mitch's snoring is on the list. I guess we got to see that in this episode, but I don't think that that would count for much.

[00:17:02] So, yeah, I think maybe that's that's the other thing, too, that, you know, I'm actually still really interested in how the season ends. And I'm really curious to see ultimately who ends up taking it. I think to a lot of what Mike had mentioned that there's so many winner contenders on the board. I think there just maybe is a little bit of a disconnect in the story that we're being told versus a story that's actually happening. And I just would love just a teeny bit. We already and I talked about this being a benefit of we did get some of that insight in this episode. But I think I just want more of that insight.

[00:17:31] So at least I can understand even if the decisions that the players are making are terrible, like Mitch's, for example. I'm so happy. At least we got to hear his logic of why he's not making a move with star. Right. That he it's because he doesn't trust her. OK, fine. I'm actually OK with that. If you're making a terrible decision, I really know what I perceive to be a terrible decision. But I understand that logic. At least I understand where he's coming from in terms of not having people he can trust. Yeah. Do the math test. Everybody else. You're doing the math test. You're getting the wrong answer. But like show your work.

[00:18:01] You know, don't just write it down. I want to see what you were working through here. I mean, to go back to your point, Jordan, as to like what caused Kyle not to pull the trigger here or to like for the first half of the episode, essentially place the gun in Camilla's head. It'd be like you fire at the printer on the gun for you. Right. Like I'm not incriminated in any of this.

[00:18:20] I honestly think it comes down to Kyle kind of outlining what the season is about in one particular confessional that I thought was incredibly prescient about how he says that this is a season that is weighted on emotional reactions and relationships. This is not a season that is weighted in gameplay. It's what makes this game so fascinating is that look at 47 where people were flipping and flopping and dipping and dumping all over the place.

[00:18:45] And, you know, there was honestly, at the end of the day, not a lot of ire to be had on behalf of the jury because everybody was sort of making these these moves essentially every time the sun rose. This is a lot more of a different story. People are having a lot of difficulty making moves that might be necessary for their game on paper because of these incredibly personal, you know, details that they've shared with each other because of these experiences they've been through together.

[00:19:12] Again, it's very old school in its ways of trying to think back to those early days of like, am I a bad person if I betray somebody who, you know, I had a really nice sit down with on day three on the beach? And from Kyle's perspective, it's also it's less so, oh, I'm feeling this way and more so will other people feel this way where other people feel betrayed by me considering all the sit downs that we had. And, you know, will they value that differently than another jury?

[00:19:41] I wonder if part of that might have just been his own feelings, too, that maybe he gets sort of sucked into the the the gameplay themes of this season and think like, I'm also having a lot of difficulty divorcing more emotions from the game. Let me take a breather for a second. It's a 26 day game. We're moving fast. I'm just going to sit here right now before I start wriggling like a worm across the sand and say, I'm going to play with the people that I bonded with incredibly tightly.

[00:20:08] And then maybe if I think about having to do something down the line and I change my mind, so be it. Yeah, we need Genevieve to come in on a boat like Cochran and advise these players on the fact that they are playing a game. And I'm not one of these people who are like, oh, you need to make big moves all the time. Every episode needs to be a blind side. Everything you have to like, you know, there was the trend of like getting rid of your number one, which is sort of a weird trend because your number one is supposed to be someone you trust.

[00:20:36] But there has to be a happy medium here where like they should all be OK with making the smart move. It doesn't have to be the big move, but it should be the smart move. And I don't it's such a weird mentality to have 48 seasons in where I think we've gotten past the point in Borneo of like our alliances, you know, bad, bad for your like moral code.

[00:21:02] So it is strange. And I think I think that's why it was so, so much fun having a Genevieve on last season who was like an assassin and didn't care. I mean, it would be even funnier because Genevieve was on a season that they will not have watched at that point. That's true. They're like, who's this lady? Random lady on a boat. Like, all right, everybody, here's what happened. Learn from me. You don't you don't you don't know who I am, but you're going to love me.

[00:21:29] And then, like, do they all have to cheer because they're all supposed to be excited for her? And the production's like, OK, clap, clap. You're going to care about this lady with me. Genevieve Musula. She's from the north. She wants to stuff your torch. Oh, yeah. That's so funny. I would absolutely love that. That's hilarious. I think.

[00:21:55] But I think that that's the thing, too, right, is it's such a good reminder of how the people who are cast on a season make the energy. They make the community. They make the standard of gameplay for that season. So we all, I think, felt that coming into this cast. It was an old school feeling. Right. I think that on the whole, we had this initial reaction to the cast that felt different from all of the previous casts in the new era.

[00:22:22] And now we're seeing the consequences of that and seeing how that's actually playing out. And I think that, yes, while it can make for boring TV, from a psychological perspective, it's actually super interesting to see how distinct and different this group is when it comes to organizing what social norms they value. So weird. And like how even maybe even one or two people can drive that. Or how do the twists factor in? Like it just, I don't know.

[00:22:48] It's just so interesting to see how all of this is playing into the season playing out. Now, maybe that, you know, maybe maybe this explains why Star was voted out, because she was making very good TV and had very good confessionals and was playing an exciting game, wanted to do a revolution. But maybe that did not fit what we were going for on the season. Yeah, could be that as well. It's like, wow. Listen, we can all sing together.

[00:23:13] But if you're the one trying to go solo here and put out your own album, like that's not going to fly right now. We are more we're doing the more group thing instead of the solo thing. That's that's the way everything musical and strategy wise happens this season. She was on Star Search. We're all on the sing off doing acapella together. Star Search was the name of her edit segment. Basically, every episode, we're like, we're star. We're really so true.

[00:23:42] I mean, what a way to highlight her, though. I feel like she got and maybe that was also a bit of a canary in the coal mine for people. It's like, oh, this is stars boot episode because we're seeing a lot of her. But I'm so glad that she and it's interesting because in my interview with her, she talked about actually how her energy, which again, if you checked out my interview with her, she was coming in at like a 12 out of 10 in terms of just like popping out all over the place. It was super exciting, super engaging. And then we really didn't see a lot of her in those first few days.

[00:24:10] And when we did, it felt a little saggy, felt a little low energy. And she admitted as much that, like, I think due to the place she found herself in, she kind of felt that way as well. And maybe it reflected in her only putting out as much as she was taking in. Right. And for whatever reason, she didn't necessarily feel welcome on Loggie 1.0. But she says that when Loggie 2.0 happened, then she really perked up. And so, you know, we talked about this, Liana, right? I'm like, oh, the merge episode finally stars out here.

[00:24:39] She's showcasing this character that we've loved since the preseason. I don't know if it's necessarily, you know, a new editor clocking in saying like, oh, this star person is pretty great. We should try her out. I think it might have legitimately been a reflection of like her own feelings about her placement in the game and how she decides to pep up in response. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I mean, especially if she feels like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm not in a place where I feel comfortable. You're just not going to be able to bring that same energy. Yeah.

[00:25:08] So Jordan, you know, listen, I've got a fairly comprehensive game here on the BNB, and I will not necessarily force us to belabor the point and, you know, spend an entire segment of this podcast significantly. So talking about an episode that I think we could all say was kind of like mid to pretty boring at best. But any other things you wanted to highlight in particular from this episode? I mean, I think that we've I think that we've basically covered it.

[00:25:36] I think, you know, we had we had the fried chicken and waffle song, which was you said you said the word mid before. I think that was maybe where I would I would rank it. Then we had the the star rap, which is a lot of fun. We had a Mitch's story at the beginning of of the episode where, first of all, why is this majority a lot? And sometimes like Mitch is there, but like it's always the majority of the Lions is sitting on this log constantly. It seems like they have only been there for days. It's ridiculous, but they're always there.

[00:26:07] But anyway, they're telling he's telling the story about how before he was a teacher, he was a he was a mailman and how he had this this run in with the dog and he ran away and he fell over. But it turned out that the dog was was changed to the fence. So he didn't even need to run away. I want that Mitch on Survivor. I want that Mitch making move because right now Mitch wouldn't run away from the dog. Mitch would have stayed there and got bit by the dog. He's going to get there eventually if he doesn't run away. And I don't care if he falls on his face.

[00:26:34] He needs to he needs to get these these soldiers together. These Camillas Camilla needs to pull in Kyle. They need to get to get with Mary and say, look, we've had enough of the Joe Eva. And then look, if they're unwilling to if they're unwilling to do it, maybe Shaheen, maybe maybe Camilla says, screw this Kyle guy. He's not working with me anyway. Let's pull in Shaheen. Shaheen seems like a guy who would want to make a move. Maybe his goal is like, OK, you know what? Going to the end with Joe and Eva is going to the end with the duo. It's kind of a classic move in Survivor. He's he's a student of the game.

[00:27:04] Maybe that's what he's thinking. But if he has any hesitancy about going to the end with I think Joe in particular, I think he has, you know, a potential case for doing something. So I hope it happens. I hope even though I don't dislike any of them really individually in this in this group, I just want I would like to see a shakeup in this game. And I think it would be very good for the players. We like power shifts on Survivor. Like that's the idea of the game is that like anything can happen at any point in time.

[00:27:31] And we don't mean that from a journey dice rolling perspective, more so from like things get switched up on you at the last minute. And Liana, what do you think? Should it have been mailman Mitch bringing the energy here? Did we catch Mitch? Mitch had, you know, been applying for 10 years or so. Did we catch him a few years too late in his resume? Yeah, we needed running from dog Mitch. I didn't realize that was the version we needed.

[00:27:58] But no, and I think that that's the thing is all of these characters are all so funny and interesting in confessionals. Mary, interesting star. Interesting. Mitch, interesting. Camilla, interesting. And I'm just like, please, can we muster up some energy to do it? But again, I think it goes back to recognizing that there's something in the water. There's something out there in the energy that is like causing these players to not want to make these big moves. Right.

[00:28:23] And maybe it's the trauma of seeing Chrissy get voted out after saying, oh, you got to take out, you know, got to take out the big players. I don't know. But I just I just want more insight on what they're thinking. But they're fun characters that we're getting to meet along the way. Yeah, exactly. I mean, listen, like when Shaquille comes in with the energy of just absolutely decking Eva with a fistful of whipped cream. I'm like, I'm like point blank range, my dude. Holy moly. I think the move is you have the spray bottle. Why not just spray?

[00:28:54] I think it doesn't go fast enough. Was that too big of a move? I think that would have been too big of a move. Too big of a move. Too big of a move. That's the thing. It feels a little too, I don't know, aggro to me to be like, to your point, Jordan, it feels more like playful seventh grade slumber party. But it's like, I'm squirting whipped cream on you. It's more so a declaration of war when it's like, here you go. Whack. Just basically, he basically like slapped her across the face with a fistful of whipped cream.

[00:29:22] You know what I kind of realized here that I think there's a lot of parallels of this season. The season six. The Rob, Rob, Rob, Rob, a Sue season, his original season where you have the final seven here. And you have these, this like group of four, which is supposedly supposed to run the game. And I think like open a Sonic together. Was it, was it a Sonic? It was a Sonic. Yeah. It was a Sonic. They were going to open a Sonic. But did Rob Sesternino, AKA Kyle say, oh yeah, I'm just going to hang out with my friends and open a Sonic.

[00:29:51] No, he flipped. He took his, his right hand man, Matt Von Camilla Erdfelda and said, look, this is what's been happening the whole game. But the thing is, Camilla is like a smart version of Matt Von Erdfelda. She knows what's been happening the whole game. She knows about the alliances. I think in this situation, like you have twigs and sticks, Joe and Eva, who are, you know, who have been running things here and they have their right hand man, Shaheen and Alex. I think that sort of makes sense. Similar.

[00:30:19] He doesn't, he didn't have the long beard, but he had like dark hair. I think that works. And Mary's butch. So I think here, if you look at, you look at the season, would Rob Sesternino be considered an all-star survivor player if he just went to the end with that four and came in fourth place? No, he's an all-star survivor player because he flipped and came in third place. So that's what Kyle needs to do. Exactly. Exactly. WWRCD.

[00:30:44] It's something that not only I wake up and see on the mirror every day, but something these players should as well to be completely candid. Yeah. Mary believed in herself when she played the shot in the dark. One in six shot and she hit. And Butch also said his social game was pretty bomb as well. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And they, if we start seeing Mary like collecting crazy amounts of wood in this episode, we know we're in trouble here. Well, it seems like she's got to burn shit down in the next episode.

[00:31:12] So instead of, she does pull a mat next week though with her chopping that coconut like Rupert in that one episode. So she might be channeling multiple members. Maybe she's the mat. Maybe Camilla's. I think Camilla is the mat partner. The very strategic and knows what's going on mat partner.

[00:31:59] We're going to see you next time.

[00:32:25] Start your test today for 1 euro per month on Shopify.de slash radio.

[00:32:57] It's going to translate to resonate in the season proper. Yeah, my prediction was based on that alternate universe where Star was totally out of her tribe. So I said that Star was pre-jury. I said that while Star shines in confessionals, she struggles to connect with her tribe mates. When Loggie screws up the puzzle in the second immunity challenge,

[00:33:22] Star becomes the easy vote with everyone on board to remove her from the happy Loggie family. Star plays her shot in the dark, but it doesn't hit and she is eliminated in a 5-0 vote. Fans are devastated to lose her so early and she becomes the focus of a fan petition to get her on Survivor 50, which I personally will head up just to make sure that my prediction comes true. Anyway, her ally was the confessionals. Her enemy was everybody else.

[00:33:51] That's actually a good point. You predicted Star updates. Ah, that's very true. I did, I did. I believe the first Stan account to be formally acknowledged by CBS. I love it. That's so funny. Well, yeah, I had about... Listen, I had Star floating a little bit further through the game to go back to a swimming metaphor than Liana did. I did still have her finishing in pre-jury, but just barely. So I wrote,

[00:34:21] Despite her sister and brother-in-law telling her to look for idols discreetly, Star takes off like a shooting star in the first days of the game. Quickly puts her on Loggie's radar, served up as an easy first boot should they ever go to Tribal Council. They never did. While the only stars getting seen at Tribal Council in the pre-merge are the ones in the sky. Okay, Emily Dickinson. Star's name will continue to be on the lips of her tribe members.

[00:34:47] Her edit will primarily consist of the other players telling us how overwhelmed they are by her going at 100 at all times. Star believes she's locked in with Joe bonding over both being parents. But she actually serves as Joe's greatest source of emotional turmoil as he struggles to prevent his allies from targeting her. Star's fate is left in the palm of Joe's hands, literally, during the split Tribal Council.

[00:35:11] With her separated from the other people on Loggie, Star hopes that he will throw the challenge to guarantee that she'll make the jury. Unfortunately, she stakes her game on the wrong guy as the vampire lover gets staked right before making it to the next phase. The more Star drives the rest of her tribe bananas, the more the fans love her.

[00:35:31] When she's voted out, the Twitter contingent will attempt to start a movement called Survivor All Stars, in caps, attempting to push her to get her as a late ad on 250. Yes! Her ally and her enemy were both Joe. Well, you both did some things well here. I mean, you both predicted that there would be, like, essentially a Stan account in her honor.

[00:35:59] You both predicted that she would be in trouble on her original tribe. Mike, you did say that Loggie would not lose, and they did not lose, and she would have probably been in the vote there had they lost, which you did say. Lianas, you sort of alluded to that point, too. You had her, well, you both had her going in the pre-merge. So placement-wise, I guess Mike was slightly closer, but not much. I mean, I had her going, like, seven episodes after a young man did. Yeah, that's true.

[00:36:29] I guess you had her going in the split vote, but I guess missing the jury, if it were the first one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Essentially, what I wrote for Star is kind of like what people perceive say as, except for her tribe winning all the time instead of losing all the time. Of, like, very contentious character, you know, rankled a lot of people on the island, had a big overwhelming fan support, was voted out just before the merge, or just before the jury started.

[00:36:56] You did, like, you did say something about how Joe made the kryptonite comment in this episode, and you sort of said something that basically alluded to that in your prediction somehow. So I do think Mike, like, you both had the vibe of Star, but I think Mike had the placement closer to Star. So I think it's Mike. And I'm very impressed by the prediction and that you both predicted Star updates. Yeah, happy to be on the, to have the vibes of the biggest vibes contestant, I think, of the season.

[00:37:26] Yes, but no, Mike was absolutely closer. That plus all the idle stuff, like, yeah. Thank you. I appreciate you trying to make it seem fair, Jordan. I did what the latest episode of Survivor did. I made it seem like it could go either way at the beginning, and then I totally pivoted. It was like, no, it's obviously Mike. Like, three parts of the way, you're like, no, there's no, there's no chance it's Leon, all right? So it's just a matter of, like, how it will happen. All right.

[00:37:52] Well, let's get into the game this week because there were a lot of things that the internet poked at with this most recent episode. But Jordan, you mentioned one particular scene. The introduction of fried chicken and waffles as a reward here that then subsequently turned into some sort of almost cult-like chant amongst Jeff Probst and the current players.

[00:38:17] that had the internet, I would not say as a whole, because saying everything as a whole would be tough in such a, you know, gradients that the internet fandom is. But many people I saw using one word to describe that particular scene, cringe.

[00:38:34] And look, as I would argue, personally, the cringiest person on the RHAP network, I don't know if I'm either the most adept or the least adept person to pontificate, judge, and ultimately grade as to what is cringe and what is not. So I figured, much like the theme of this season, we're going to make this a group activity.

[00:38:56] And much like we talked about with the IMDB ratings, I took it upon the listeners of this podcast, the people on social media, to truly find out, as some people did put out there at the time, is this the most cringe moment in Survivor history? And listen, while we are past March Madness, the NBA postseason tournament is running strong. And so I thought it's time we put this in a bracket for the first ever Survivor Cringe Tournament.

[00:39:28] Survivor Cringe Tournament. Survivor Cringe Tournament. All right, I'll add that as a late submission now. Just the chanting of the name of the tournament in there. So it might be a little too meta. But I want to thank everybody who submitted all of these different moments and had us, you know, relive some of those things that gave us goosebumps, had us looking away, etc.

[00:39:50] But I decided to take 16, probably the 16 most talked about moments, pair them off together to face off against one another, put them in a big bracket, see who's the winner at the end. So again, these are the 16, I would say, most talked about moments from the people that I pulled. With one exception, I would say that these are not like very controversial, ugly moments in the show.

[00:40:13] Like, for example, of a very vocally suggested answer was Varner outing Zeke. I'm not necessarily going to want to just bring that into discussion for this particular tournament, though I do understand the answer. Again, there might be one exception here of like where things do go a little dark, but otherwise these are just going to be moments that felt awkward. Some you might perceive as funny, some you might perceive as so bad it's funny, or some you might perceive as so bad.

[00:40:43] And so we're going to be voting on each one and trying to figure out, you know, what is the most cringe moment and truly getting down to what makes cringe in general before that word ends up getting written out of the lexicon and being told is too choogy for the younger generations out there. I have a question, Mike. Did Rob submit a form? And when he submitted his form, did he say every verbal rebus that Jordan Kalish has ever made him do? Did he submit that? That's actually a separate tournament. Next time, Jordan, you're coming back.

[00:41:13] It's just all of your verbal rebus. Oh, OK. I like that. We're just going to read them out and have Leanna and I react, you know, viscerally in the moment and sort of judge based on that, like a thermometer or a pain meter at the hospital. Rebus madness. All right. Well, let's get into it, shall we? So I've also tried to I didn't seeds baby any of these these submissions. I tried to more so kind of pair them off in similar theming ones that might resemble each other.

[00:41:42] So listen, we're living in a new era right now. Let's start off with two moments from the new era. And I will also say due to copyright reasons, I'm not necessarily going to play any of these moments on the podcast. Also, because, again, considering the sensitivity that some people might have to some of these scenes, I think it's just better if I tell them secondhandedly, remind you of some of these things so you don't have to experience it all over again. I took care of that for you.

[00:42:08] I was your Eva esque whipped cream shield in the form of this cringe. Let's get into it. Our first submission in the first matchup is from Survivor 44 when Danny was voted off and decided in that moment to try to pull off an impression.

[00:42:30] This was when Danny and his last name, after getting voted out, decided to act like Robert De Niro and ask for Jeff to snuff his torch. And this is going up against another big character from season 46, Banu.

[00:42:53] I highlighted in particular when Banu is like begging Tiffany to stay in episode four when he is just absolutely doomed, doesn't have a vote. Yanu's lost again. God is not here for him anymore. And so he literally gets down on his knees to beg to Tiffany, though. I also saw some people submit the whole like million hearts thing that Banu repeated over and over again. So this could be a bit more of a wide net. But this is the first matchup here.

[00:43:22] It is Danny's De Niro versus Banu Jordan begging for his life. So I think the thing that was cringe, the most cringe about Danny's De Niro impression, the impression itself was fine. Like if you're if you were just like came up to you and he was your friend and he's doing a De Niro impression, whatever. But he just got voted off of Survivor. And there was no reference to De Niro made in the episode. It was like totally out of left field.

[00:43:51] It had nothing to do with Survivor. So I think that's why it's cringe. It was just the wrong setting for it. But having said that, I think Banu is one of the most cringe players in the history of Survivor. I was sitting right across from Brian Cohen when he made his tweet and saying that is that Banu is the worst contestant of all time. And while I don't know, I think he's close. Like I think there's maybe people that I dislike more than Banu.

[00:44:16] I do think that Banu might be the cringiest contestant of all time outside of people who have like done terrible things. So I think the Banu begging on his knees to stay in the game is a lot more cringy than the Danny De Niro moment in 44. See, OK, so I will take the I'll let Liana be the tiebreaker here because I'm picking De Niro, Dan Niro, if you will. And I'll explain why, because Jordan, I will take your logic and Missy Elliott style flip that thing and reverse it.

[00:44:45] Because what I think is more cringy about the Danny moment is that to me, and this is incredibly odd to say, Banu falling to his knees in the middle of the Walmart that was the Yanu camp did not surprise me in the least. This felt at this point, I've experienced like six hours of Banu at this point. This the quarter of a day of this man, this completely made sense that he would quite literally get down on his knees,

[00:45:14] praying to the person, beseech me, do anything to protect me in this game. Please pick Banu. Exactly. Please pick Banu. With Danny, it was so out of nowhere. To your point, Jordan, that like this guy was a little bit of a goofball, right? He was the one that ate the clue. He was running around the jungle. He farted during an immunity challenge. But nowhere was this guy like, and I've got a really great De Niro impression. Like this felt like this is such an odd moment because he had just been blindsided as well.

[00:45:44] This is the one where they try to go for Carson and Carolyn plays the idol on him and then they get rid of Danny. Anyway, that it just felt like both an odd coping mechanism, but also simultaneous like it like an opportunity to shoehorn in something that he clearly wanted to do beforehand. So due to just how much it took me out of the moment, I got to go with Dan Niro. Hmm. Mike, you make a really good argument.

[00:46:10] And I initially when I saw these two back like lineup, I thought I immediately know my answer. But I think that that's those are good points that you raise. Unfortunately, I don't think it's enough to overturn the pure physical, like visceral cringe that I feel with Banu. Like Danny's was, of course, cringe in that moment and very funny. But Banu, oh, my God, even like seeing that still image that you pulled up of him begging to.

[00:46:38] Oh, it just I could just I feel I feel it in my bones, Mike. Like it's just it's so cringy. So I'm siding with Jordan on this one. Banu has to be my answer. I just wanted him to quit at this point. Like I did not want to see this guy on my screen. And while I did feel bad for him, I also was like, you signed up for this. You know, the show, you know what game you're going into. So I mean, that's what Tiffany and Kenzie said. You want to win a million hearts volunteer? Yeah, I know.

[00:47:07] And this is it's also like this is not even the culmination. There's like more cringy stuff after this. There was more cringy stuff before outside of the premiere. He was maybe I think the cringiest person to ever be on the show. I mean, even in the premiere, there was that infamous moment where he like accidentally puts his foot in his mouth. It says Jelinski is going home. And then Jeff asked him if that's true. And he just goes, it's time to vote. I forgot about that. Oh, so cringy. Yeah. Bonner's got to win this one. Jelinski is like anti cringe.

[00:47:36] I think most people disagree with that. But I want Jelinski back. Jelinski on my screen again. So that's so interesting because I feel like a lot of people. Well, maybe it's because he got humbled so immediately. I feel like had Jelinski not got his comeuppance in episode one, he would have been perceived as a lot cringier. Right. It was the fact that he was came in with all this. Jelinski is the monster. I'm the legend and was immediately undone. I think helped neutralize any possibility of cringe in the chamber. That's possible. Yeah, maybe. He gets all right. You can vote it out first.

[00:48:04] Next matchup here are attempted gestures of goodwill. Listen, we're all they're all in deprivational elements out there. They're starved of food, of sleep, of love. And these castaways are just trying to fill that hole a smidge. Let's start with Survivor Marquesas, where Nalia Dennis goes on a reward with Pascal. They go on a yacht. Jeff Probst's personal visa is paying for it all.

[00:48:34] They have this luxurious five course meal. They get to shower. They get to shave. They come back to camp and Nalia goes into an incredible amount of detail about all the things that they ate. She's smelling her hair, not really reading the room as to the fact that everyone else is miserable and starving. They're saying no, no, even more than the no, no's. But she decides in that moment, OK, I think I have something that you'd like.

[00:49:02] She pulls a mint that she's currently sucking on out of her mouth and says, this is a really good mint. If you all want to have a nibble of it, to which everybody's like, no, we're good. And she says, no, guys, it's a really, really good mint. And when they deny her a second time, she finally decides, oh, my heck, I guess I better house this thing myself. Pops it back in her mouth.

[00:49:30] Just like a complete lack of social reads here. And this is going up against Vince Sly from Survivor World Apart, who once said in one of his many pearls of wisdom that, you know, he can only really get a read off of somebody if he hugs them for 10 and exactly 10 seconds. And there is at one point during his two episode arc on Worlds Apart where he envelops Jen Brown

[00:49:59] into an embrace and the camera uncut lingers on them for 10 seconds before she quite literally taps him out saying, OK, Mr. Coconut Bender, I am done. Liana, what's your pick between the two? Oh, this is tough. This is a lot closer for me, I think, because we got to experience the full 10 second cringe with Vince and Jen. Oh, my God. So uncomfortable.

[00:50:29] But there's something about the fact from her mouth, Mike, like she took it out of it. It wasn't like, oh, and I brought these back like to give you guys like I smuggled them back here, have a couple minutes. That's so cringy in and of itself. But to pull it from your mouth and offer it, I think I have to go with Nalaya. I have to go. I have to go with the mint moment. Jordan, what about you? So these are both very cringe.

[00:50:56] When you brought up Nalaya, I have like a visceral reaction because I just I remember watching this as a kid. I remember like this was a talking point after the episode with my mom, who I always used to watch Survivor with at home. It was sort of like we used to joke about it sometimes. Like I would have a mint and I would pretend to offer it, which obviously the machine never did. It was a joke of the episode. So this is something that was like a talking point. Like the mid sly thing happened. It was very cringy.

[00:51:26] I didn't really like when I was thinking about what things could possibly be on this bracket, this one didn't even come up in my head. The mint one did the mint one was like, I wonder if Nalaya is going to be on there. So I think because of the staying power, I think I have to go with the mint. Also, with the mint sly hug, hopefully there was no potential for body fluid exchange where with the mint, if anyone had taken the offer, there could have been. So I think that the mint wins, unfortunately. That is, you know what?

[00:51:55] Maybe going back to my earlier metaphor, maybe don't show the work on the math problem, Jordan, maybe I don't need to know every single number using the equation to get to that final result, but incredibly valid. I do wonder because we are also talking, you know, on the weekend of the Kentucky Derby, if Nalaya made some mint jewels to her derby party and what she might have used to season those as a nice garnish. So Nalaya moves on. Vince, unfortunately, will get left behind hugging ever more.

[00:52:25] Our next matchup is going to, I would say a tried and true source of cringe in the old era of Survivor. It has unfortunately gone the way of the Dodo, though we might see it pop back up in season 50, depending on how everybody voted. I could do an entire separate bracket of cringe moments from Survivor reunions, but I narrowed it down to the top two. So let's start with, without giving away too much, what I would say was one of the most

[00:52:53] suggested answers for this bracket. And of course, I'm talking about David Murphy proposing to Carolina Eastwood in the Survivor Redemption Island reunion. I watched this clip all over again. The setup is cringe. The execution is cringe. We're like, Jeff says like, oh, David, you're seeing Carolina. He goes like, yeah, things are going really well. And Jeff just has to go like. Really?

[00:53:23] Because clearly Jeff knew that this had to happen, and I think he was waiting for some sort of code word to be said or like he was waiting for David to go himself. And so Jeff not knowing what to do is like, OK, sure, buddy. And then David eventually says, in fact, there's something I want to do right now. He goes down to Carolina Eastwood, who I would say of a first boot probably is the closest

[00:53:49] to a reunion stage in Survivor history besides sitting on one herself, where he gets down on one knee throughout the entire time. She's saying shut down, shut it down. And then he proposes to her. The first thing she responds with is Survivor loves blindsiding me, which millions of people watching said we don't even remember who you are. But she does say yes in the moment.

[00:54:13] And what makes it even more cringe is the fact that surprise, surprise, the wedding didn't go through. They say going full Murphy is professing your love for Boston Rob and then proposing. But full, full Murphy did not happen. They did not walk down the aisle. And that is going up against another sordid romantic tale. Kat Ederson from the Survivor blood versus water reunion, where Jeff asks her about her

[00:54:42] comment about nobody dates somebody who doesn't make the merge. Kat responds, well, Russell Feathers and I referring to Hayden are in two separate states. We're looking to move into one. You know, I've if I'm looking a little more top heavy, I've made some adjustments to get more on his level. And once again, Jeff is awestruck being like, what are you talking about?

[00:55:06] You changed your body to be with Hayden and Hayden is just stunned into silence. He knows he is not going to get anywhere involved. This is too much goodwill coming from this season. Let me not muck it up immediately. So there we go. Two big moments from the reunions. And I'm not talking about Jordan. What's on Kat's chest? Yeah, I so the Kat one is great.

[00:55:32] This was a great I mean, great in the cringy sense sense of great. This very, very memorable moment. We top heavy is definitely something that has been quoted on the podcast before when when Kat comes up, along with being undateable for not making the merge. But this is like, OK, Kat talked about being top heavy. The proposal. And I believe, is it the first thing that she said? Shut the front door. Yeah, shut the front door. That's what it is.

[00:55:59] Yeah, shut the front door when she was proposed to like clearly, clearly she did not know this was happening. She did not want this happening. Just the cat thing is awkward and cringy. I think the David proposal wins this matchup, though. Yeah, I'm 100 percent on board. Like I couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with Jordan. It's got to be the proposal. No, no, it's got to be like cat being top heavy is very, very fun and a great way to send off just one of the most oddball.

[00:56:28] I would not even say forgotten characters, but like one of the most comic characters in the dark era of Survivor. But you can sort of pile that onto a bunch more reunion moments that stand out, whether it's like the China reunion where Jeff asked Courtney if she has an eating disorder or ask if Eric is still a virgin. The Caramoan reunion where there was everything with like naked Richard talking to Rudy and Jeff brought a teenage girl up from the audience to talk about how much she loved Malcolm.

[00:56:58] This is like a dime a dozen for the reunion. The proposal stands out head and shoulders above the rest. I'm sure it's something we'll get into a bit more. But yeah, unfortunately, cat ends up getting bottomed out here. This is a top heavy suggestion by comparison. I think cat. Yeah, I think anything that like so many things that Brian Gumbel said in his first three seasons of hosting the reunion could have been more cringy than cat.

[00:57:25] All right, let's move into our next matchup here. And these are the desperate kicks of a dying horse. These are maneuvers that people who are on their way out of tribal council do that come across a little off putting to say the least. Survivor Nicaragua Shannon Elkins is getting it from all ends. And speaking of which, you know, Sash Lenahan makes one particular comment and Shannon stops

[00:57:55] him and says, I'm going to stop you right here, bro. Are you gay? Everyone rolls their eyes. And Sash says, you know, I'm the biggest bachelor in New York. Shannon replies, New York is full of gay people, prompting Jeff Probst to have to like repeat what he said in replying. New York is full of gay people.

[00:58:19] Survivor Nicaragua is such a weird season baked into such a weird time in the show. Nor is this better represented than the fact that this is the first tribal council that this tribe has gone to. This is the only tribal council this man will go to. And he already throws one fiftieth of states under the bus, assigning them a certain label on his way out. So we have a newbie representative. Let's talk about a returnee representative here. I love Adam Klein.

[00:58:48] And Adam Klein had historic precedent here in Survivor South Africa. There was at one point an idol that was hidden at tribal council in the host podium. Adam loves himself a fleur-de-lis, perhaps even more so after this moment or less. He takes a look at it, stares at it time after time, feels like that's got to be an idol, right? And so when Jeff asks if anyone has an idol or an advantage, Adam gets up, walks over to

[00:59:14] the podium, starts jiggling it around like it's, you know, the stuck handle on a bathroom door, leaves it, sits down like, ah, worth a try. Then, from my opinion, I didn't even remember this until watching it back, the cringier part comes when Jeff's like, you want to play that? And I was like, oh, can I? Yes. Is that a thing? Yes. Can I play it? Yes. He says, you want to play this thing at the top of my podium that you've, that's been here the entire time. It would be a historic thing. And Adam's like, yes, I want to do it.

[00:59:43] Jeff officially declares that is not a hidden immunity idol. Adam goes out. I think he really wears it on the chin, unlike Shannon. But Jordan, it's a battle here of what these people do in their last moments of the game. So if this was a bracket of what was my favorite moment, the Adam podium idol is hilarious. I, this is, I think, one of the more memorable moments of winning the war. And so that's the interesting thing that I think we're going to get into with some of these is like, are funny moments not cringe?

[01:00:13] Can cringe moments also be funny? Does it help it? Does it hurt it? I think funny moments can be cringe. And I think cringe moments can be funny. I think this has a level of cringe. I think the part, okay, when he goes, he goes up. And I think if you, especially if you know the backstory that like he had watched Survivor South Africa, he knew that there were sometimes idols hidden either on the podium or at tribal council. He knows that this is a thing. There's Florida leaves all over Survivor winners at war. So I think it's going up there while it was cringe.

[01:00:41] It was also not like bad Survivor play. It was a last ditch effort. It was almost like a precursor to the shot in the dark. So he went, he went up there and it was obviously not an idol. I think the part that you said about like him saying, yes, I would like to play the podium. That might be the more cringe part, but it's the less memorable part of this, this whole thing, him going up and grabbing the thing. This is the iconic image that you're showing on the screen right now. So I think the fact that the more cringy part is, is the less memorable part.

[01:01:07] I think the Shannon thing is more cringy than Adam Klein trying to play the podium idol. I think it was a darker moment. I think it was a homophobic moment. I think it was a bad moment in Survivor, but I think it was more cringe. Mm-hmm. Okay. I'm going to tie it up. I'm going to give it to the Adam podium idol, even though Jordan, I do totally understand. Like when I think about that visceral, like emotional reaction to cringe, obviously you have to go with Shannon with Nicaragua.

[01:01:33] But for me, it is the moment I remembered was him saying, can I play this? Or like, I would like to play the podium. And like that to me, and that was the moment that I actually remember more than him even going up and like trying to get it off the, but like, I remember Jeff's indignant response of like, I'm sorry, you want to play this? And Adam is like a kid. Like, yeah, can I? Yes, this is such a good moment. So I am going to tie it up.

[01:02:03] I'm going to pick the Adam's podium idol. It all falls onto me here. Yes, it does. It's tough because again, I would not say, you know, if the tiebreaker is, as I mentioned before with the Danny thing, like, is this out of character? This was not out of character for Adam whatsoever. You know, I think one of the partial reasons why he's brought on to Winners at War is that like, he's the excitable young super fan. I think one of the biggest fans to ever win any version of Survivor.

[01:02:32] And so I think he gets to sort of represent the audience and just being so starry eyed, being around all of these people. So like, this made sense to me. And the fact was that he was going anyway. So he's like, okay, I'm desperate enough to try anything. Let me just even even just like that. Yes, can I do it? It was more so I think for me, I don't know. I perceived it more as like Jeff kind of dragging him along, you know, leading him on by being like, you want to do this? And I was like, yeah, is that is it real? Yeah. It's just like, I know, sucker.

[01:03:02] Like that feels almost more of a rug pull, which almost feels like a different definition of cringe, you know, than Shannon, who like just makes the conversation so incredibly awkward by just bringing it to an absolute other level. And again, I would say it was entirely within his character as well, in a manner of speaking to bring that up.

[01:03:27] But I think just the fact that the Adam podium idol was sort of like a fun little note, but it didn't ultimately change the tone of anything. You know, this was right before he ends up getting voted out. And he still says worth a try. He still goes out smiling with his head held high. This like abruptly shifts everything. It sucks the wind out of that tribal council where it was a wild tribal council. We were getting Fabio and and Nayanka getting into it. We were getting Shannon like accusing Chase and Brenda being in a showmance.

[01:03:56] Like there was so much wild shit happening. And then all of a sudden it's like, come on, dude, you're really going to bring this up? Really? Really? But you could also argue that it also is a more like celebrated cringe moment in that I imagine a certain sector of the survivor audience has sort of like claimed power to that as well. Like, hell yeah, New York is full of gay people. We're all survivor fans, motherfucker. So for that reason, I'm going to give the big apple to Shannon.

[01:04:24] You're having to take a bite and send him through to the next round. Mm hmm. Yeah. All right. Got it. Let's move into our next match up here. And we're talking about love. Let's talk about an on island connection, shall we? And this is perhaps besides David and Carolina, the other most requested moment from the audience.

[01:04:47] Billy Garcia, much like Shannon Elkins, found himself a dead man walking his tribe through the challenge. He looked over to the Reros and said, I'm next. Candace, then just Woodcock, no Cody, looks him in the eyes and says, well, we love you. He replies singularly, I love you. And that night, as his tribe is disparaging his performance, his work ethic around camp,

[01:05:16] Billy sort of says, screw these guys. It doesn't matter. I came out here to win. I came out not to win a million hearts, but I did succeed in winning one. I found love in this game. Her name is Candace. This is honestly, I think, one of the first big Jeff Probst tribal council moments to the point where it's still like a gif of Jeff, like leaning forward, face in his hands. Candace from Rero tribe. Spoiler alert, doesn't work out. Doesn't work out with the guy she found on the season as well.

[01:05:46] That is going up against a connection that lives outside of the game that is brought within Lisa and Justice Welchel, where Lisa's brother, Justice, comes out during a Survivor Philippines. He does not regard her by name. No use of a proper noun. Just like he was watching Tia and Tamara Mowry's greatest works. Just uttering sister, sister, as he's running out, runs into her arms.

[01:06:15] As you can see from her face, she kind of happily sobs like she's digesting a lemon and passing a kidney stone at the same time, which is her face is simultaneously puckered forward and back. Jeff comments that it is the most emotional he's ever seen a loved one's visit. And there was certainly a lot of emotions going on, Liana. The question is, what emotions were they? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I actually this I thought it was going to be Billy lock it up.

[01:06:43] But this is I forgot about how cringe this moment was. I think the running out also is just always so awkward for the loved ones. But like, especially here. Oh, boy. I think I'm still going to have to go with Billy, though, just purely because of how that has permeated in terms of continuing within the cultural zeitgeist of Survivor and also how you get the moment from the challenge.

[01:07:11] And then it comes back up at Tribal Council. And there's just so much to it. That's so cringe. So I think that's where my vote is going to have to go. So, Jordan, I love that the Lisa and Justice Welch moment is being brought up here. I think it doesn't get talked about enough. Her face and her sobbing is just beyond it's beyond cringe. It's it's it's such a cringy moment, but it is going up against such a juggernaut and

[01:07:38] Billy Garcia finding love in Candace Candace, Candace Woodcock. And I can't I can't not vote for Billy in the first round. I feel like this is you asked before. Can funny be cringe? Can cringe be funny? This is one of the funniest moments in Survivor history, but I think it is also one of the cringiest. And it's funny because of how cringe it is. So I'm going to say Billy Garcia has to move on to the next round. And listen, I'll give a little bit of a slide to the Welchels here as well.

[01:08:06] And that from what I heard and this this might not be true, but like Justice, obviously, Lisa was a very famous television actress. Only a couple of people ended up knowing who she was out there. But he didn't know like how much of her identity that she had hidden from the tribe. So I think he wanted to play it safe and use the most generic term possible. I don't know why he thought he couldn't call her Lisa.

[01:08:31] Like, I don't know if she changed her first name for the season, but he just decides to say sister, sister that will live on in infamy as much as the dual Michael Scoopins watching them in the background. But so she said like justice. And he was like, Lisa, do you think all the people on the track like like Carter would have been like, oh, wait a second. Is that Lisa Welchel from the facts of life? Yeah, Carter's a big cutie head. Like he's like, yeah, I stayed up till 2 a.m.

[01:09:01] Baked out of my mind watching facts of life. That's clearly Blair. Blair makes no sense, but I it is. It's a great moment. It's a really funny moment. Yeah. So Billy will get his justice here and getting one over justice and we'll get into a lot more. But I think the also the earnestness of Billy as well, like just a wild thing. I mean, the you know, the the ways trying to reheat Robin Amber's nachos essentially by being like, we can also make a love connection on the island.

[01:09:30] It was it was wild in so many ways. And we'll get into it more in round two. Next round here, we are going to be getting into some Matt chat moments. Now, we talked about LaFleur before we talked about LaFleur de Lee in the form of Adam's podium. But let's talk more about the tribe proper, because this is also from the early days of Nicaragua. People might not remember, but I think in the first immunity challenge, LaFleur comes in

[01:09:58] doing a chant where the guys are going like, oh, huh? Oh, huh? They all hit the mat at once. And the girls go LaFleur. And Jeff, perhaps showcasing, you know, where he's come in the past 20 something years, completely no sells it. He goes literally dot dot dot K and then moves into the challenge. So these poor kids, you know, underneath Jeff at this moment of like cannot be bothered

[01:10:25] with all the camp spirit that these onions are bringing. And you know what it's going up against the camp spirit we got in this most recent episode, the fried chicken and waffles chant. So the interesting thing here, Jordan, is that we are talking about one chant brought about by a tribe. The other chant brought about by Jeff Probst with everyone joining in. In your opinion, which is the cringier one? All right. Both incredibly cringy.

[01:10:54] I mean, there's the fried chicken and waffles is the reason we are doing the cringe bracket in the first place. And then you have the LaFleur tribe stance, which I sort of forgot about. But now that you say it, I do. I do remember their chant. I remembered the girls doing LaFleur at the end. Um, it, it sort of invokes another floor, a floor Delacour from, from Harry Potter with her, her and her Vila classmates from Bobatons when they did their little entrance into the,

[01:11:23] into the Hogwarts, uh, uh, dining hall. So a lot of floors going on. Liana is on the floor. Liana is on the floor. I'm on the floor. Straight to consumer millennial core. Thank you, Jordan. Oh my gosh. So we, we have, uh, their, their little dance, but you know, that was something that the tribe did. It didn't work. I'm surprised it made the edit, but I think that made the edit to make the tribal dumb because they were sort of a dumb tribe. Uh, but the fried chicken and waffles, this is something that seems so forced because Jeff

[01:11:53] is the one who started the chant. He was like, I'm going to do this. I'm there. They're going to come in. There's going to be fried chicken waffles. And then I'm going to get this tribe chanting because I know these, these people, I know these millennials and Gen Z years. They're going to get into it. They're going to see it as like a gift that's going to happen. They're going to be into this. I don't think he anticipated that Shaheen was going to turn it into a little more of a song. And then that star was going to, you know, make it go off the walls. But I do think because Jeff started it, it's more cringe. So I'm going to get to talk to you in the office.

[01:12:22] Uh, even just this still of Jeff, look how cringe that picture is. Who doesn't chant with this pose? Who's like, yeah, come on. You can do it. It's so cringe. It's so bad. This is a fantastic. Like milk a cow from the, from the, it's like, I just, I've never seen anyone in real life do the double fist. Like, yeah, come on. We could do it. Like he was bobbing up and down. I don't know.

[01:12:51] Usually I don't know when I started. I guess I, you could like, you know, nod yourself up and down. I don't think you need to add the fists into it. It's like, but the why it's like, I don't know. It's also T-Rex arm style. It's just, and maybe this is recency bias speaking, but just, it's so, it was just so cringe. I even, we was like, what in the big brother is this moment? So that immediately cringe.

[01:13:18] You know, honestly, not to take things too far away here, Liana, from the job or set here out here to do, but I really do feel like survivor 48, specifically the post merge is so big brother coded to me. Like I think back to a season like big brother 16 or 19 or 22, when like the gameplay was that there was this ironclad majority Alliance that was winning all the challenges and getting all the powers.

[01:13:43] And like either the people that were on the outside could not join up and do anything because they were, you know, part of the losing pack. Or they kept like essentially being like crabs at the bottom of a bucket, like clawing over each other just to get to the top. And so this majority steamrolls their way to the end. I feel like we got that a lot in the gameplay. I think people have been talking about how the confessionals this season, I felt a little

[01:14:08] more expositional where it's like Eva saying like, so I woke up and I snuck out in the middle of the night as we see her do. So I don't know if that second screening, I don't know if it's just again, trying to fill content for the 90 minutes. And yeah, here where much like the big brother players like to do when they're at their board on day like 74, they're making up songs to pass the time. So fried chicken and waffles. It is right now you're picking Liana moving on. Yep. Yep.

[01:14:37] That's what I'm going with. All right, let's move on and talk about. I would say just due to the number of entries on this list, you could argue besides the LaFleur tribe, the king of cringe himself, Ozzy, once the source of Billy's ire to draw the attention of one candidates, he's got a couple of cringe moments himself. So this is an Ozzy specific matchup here. Our first one comes from the first final tribal council.

[01:15:07] He participated in as a juror from survivor Micronesia. For those that don't remember, Ozzy had multiple things to say to both finalists in the forms of Parvati and Amanda with Parvati. He disparages her concerning. She's a former Cook Islands cast member turning on him saying, how can you be a role model to children? You put a price on our friendship. But the worst thing is you stopped me from spending 14 more days with Amanda.

[01:15:36] Ozzy then proceeds to literally slap himself on both sides to be like, get a grip, man, and admits that he has fallen in love with her on the island. Spoiler alert. It worked out just about as well as it did for David Murphy and Carolina. But Ozzy takes his entire time here, the first time he's ever a juror on day 39 to lambast

[01:16:02] one person's livelihood and hope he finds himself in the other person's as well. This is going up against Ozzy deciding, you know what? That performance was good, but I can put forward a greater one. Survivor South Pacific. Ozzy concocts this plan where his tribe is forced to go to tribal council right before the pre-merge. He knows they'll be down in numbers. So he says, let me be a Trojan horse. I don't use a Trojan often, but let me be a Trojan horse.

[01:16:32] I will purposely get voted out. I will beat Christine at the Redemption Island duel. But I am going to play up like you guys blindsided me. That Cochran used the idol and voted me out. And now screw all you guys. I'm defecting over to the Upolus. And it's just an incredible performance. He's standing there at Redemption Island arena being like, well, because this guy couldn't manage his clip.

[01:17:01] Now I'm here. Tribelines are over. I know he wasn't in it alone. I'm a free agent. So I'm doing it for revenge, basically. And Jeff, as much as he loves Ozzy, sales this as much as well as he does for the little floors. He's like, all right. Yeah, moving on. Nobody buys it whatsoever. But you look at this, Jordan. Ozzy having an attempt to have multiple performances in front of the camera and also on Survivor.

[01:17:29] So the Redemption Island moment was cringy. I think that I do appreciate, though, that it was Ozzy's maybe... I mean, look, when we think about Ozzy on Survivor, we think about his challenge performances. We think about him getting himself into the Final Four alliance in Survivor Cook Islands. But we don't necessarily think of Ozzy the strategist.

[01:17:58] Maybe he plays a little bit more strategically in Micronesia. It doesn't work, obviously. And then he kind of goes down in a really dumb way. So that was an attempt that didn't work. But you know what? I kind of enjoyed seeing Ozzy's strategic mind at work, even though it was something that didn't end up helping him. Nobody bought it. But was it cringe? Maybe a little bit. When you said that this was going to be an Ozzy-only bracket, I was like, it's going to be the Amanda thing at Final Tribal Council, and I don't know what the other one's going to be.

[01:18:24] So I have to go with the one that when my head heard Ozzy and cringe, I was like, it's his Final Tribal Council performance in Micronesia, where he professes his love for Amanda. And then he's sort of criticizing Parvati and throwing away friendship for the game. I feel like that's what this season's Final Tribal Council could be like from some of the jurors. So that could be like the spiritual predecessor to that. So I'm voting for the Ozzy Final Tribal Council moment in Micronesia.

[01:18:54] What's interesting to me is actually the Redemption Island moment. I remember more. Like, I remember having more, actually, of a reaction to that one. I don't know why. Maybe because I was just like, oh, Ozzy, when I was at the Final Tribal Council. But this one, I just, I think maybe I like Jeff getting involved. I'm noticing that, like, the moments I'm picking involve Jeff Probst. So I'm going to make this one a little bit closer of a battle. I'm going to give it to the Redemption Island moment.

[01:19:22] And, Mike, it's up to you to pick the winner. I mean, so Ozzy is trying to actively put forward more of a performance here. He has a bigger audience that he's trying to play to. And there's more high stakes operations going on here, right? He is trying to really thread the needle of being like, I've burned my tribe down and I'm joining up with the Opulosu. We can find out who they're voting for and we can play the idol properly.

[01:19:48] So even though it's a smaller audience, though, Ozzy puts much more out on the line in the form of the Micronesia Final Tribal Council. He is used to bearing all. And he does so in that. I mean, I don't think anything from the scriptedness of the Redemption Island speech compares to even the first line of his Micronesia Final Tribal Council. I think I might be the biggest idiot up here. Yeah, you had me there, Ozzy.

[01:20:17] And so I do think I'm going to go with Micronesia right now. You're saying that Liana is the only fan of the Redemption Island one. Yes. Liana is the only fan. I love this moment. All right. Our final matchup in the first round are favors that are requested in the heat of Tribal Council. The first one. Yeah.

[01:20:41] And so listen, I did say that I made one exception for a fairly dark moment to make it onto the bracket here. And that's because it was suggested so, so much. And it'd be rather toothless if I did not put it on here. This is in the final Tribal Council of Survivor. Kara Moen, for those that don't remember, Dawn has a retainer that has a few lower teeth on it. She lost a few lower teeth due to an accident when she was a kid. She has an emotional breakdown at one point in the season that she had lost it in this like

[01:21:11] little man-made lake that they had. Brenda offered to go get it for her and she's eternally grateful. Dawn is either part of or ends up kind of getting brought along into this play into blindside Brenda. Brenda comes back at the final Tribal Council and in maybe one of the ugliest speeches in Tribal Council history, tells Dawn, oh, so if you were fine staying in the game without your retainer, then take it out. Take out your teeth right now.

[01:21:38] And Dawn quite literally says at one point, if you want me to take my teeth out and humiliate myself, I'll do it. And she did. And what makes it even more humiliating is that she did not only not get Brenda's vote, she did not get any votes. And it's unfortunately an incredibly sad testament to a tragic story of survivor Kara Moen. It's going up against a much lighter moment by comparison, but still a moment where somebody left somebody hanging at Tribal.

[01:22:09] Angelina decides to be part of the plan to have the Goliaths turn on one another and vote out Natalie Cole in Survivor David versus Goliath. And so on the way out, as Natalie is feeling all sorts of feelings about the hurt that's been exacted upon her, Angelina stands up. Let's also point that out. She's she arises to approach the bench and ask Natalie, Natalie, is there any way I can have your jacket?

[01:22:37] And Natalie does not respond. She promptly walks out of Tribal Council. Angelina, believing that maybe Natalie did not hear her, calls her name a couple of times. And as she voices herself, gets nothing. Liana, who has your vote? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I think obviously the Dawn moment has a ton of cringe to it, but it is like more uncomfortable cringe. And I would rather pick a fun, cringe moment.

[01:23:07] And the Natalie, can I have your jacket moment is so cringe. It's so iconic. When I was thinking about moments that would be in this bracket, this is the one that popped into my head. So I think I have to go with the Natalie, can I have your jacket moment? All right. What do you think, Jordan? So Brenda was obviously cringe for asking Dawn to take out her teeth at Final Tribal Council. I think Dawn doubled down on the cringiness by doing it. She should have said, fuck you, Brenda. I'm not doing that.

[01:23:35] And I think maybe, I don't know if she would have got votes, but maybe she would have got some respect from the jury on that season. Maybe she gets like one sympathy vote if she says that. Because it was absolutely bonkers that this whole thing happened, that she actually did it. But in terms of, it was more like, I think Liana's put it perfectly. It's uncomfortable and it was kind of like sad. This, Natalie, can I have your jacket is like the definition of cringe.

[01:24:00] This is her thinking that she pulled off this whole thing where she didn't vote for Natalie because she wanted to get the jacket. Natalie saw right through it as she's going out of the game. The fact that she repeats her name like she didn't hear it, like you said, Mike, I think that she just was not reading the room here. There was no way she was getting that jacket. I think that the Natalie jacket moment is, to quote Pascal English, the epitome of what this bracket is about. As he's hands off a midge to Nalia.

[01:24:29] Yeah, I mean, so to me also goes back to my definition of cringe, which is not everyone's definition, but I would say from my perspective, I think what makes cringe cringe is like a distinct lack of venom. It's not like, you know, the classic cringe that I think everyone thinks of when they think of television is like Scott's tots from The Office. And that's more so like awkward situations that are meant to have you live in an uncomfortable thing. It's not met with like malice and ire.

[01:24:57] It wasn't like Michael Scott said, ha ha ha ha, I'm going to promise these kids a future only to pull them away. It was due to his own incompetence and, you know, lack of forethought that had him doing all these things and trying to build the runway before the plane takes off. So I feel like the Brenda and Dawn thing to me is the same reason why, like, I got a couple of requests for like the the Corinne comment to sugar in the final tribal council where like, I feel like when people are attempting to like really go there and go for a low blow.

[01:25:26] Yes, there are the Shannons of the world where like they try to do it, but that was so ridiculous and over the top that I think it kind of gets laughed off. What it is done in a malice filled way, that's less so cringe to me as much as it is, again, uncomfortable, which are kind of two sides at the same point. So that being said, it's got to be Natalie. Can I have your jacket when you have Mike White, who arguably produces some of the best cringe comedy out there with the White Lotus, right?

[01:25:53] With people eating each other out and having these incredibly awkward storytelling conversations with each other. Sam Rockwell's entire monologue in the White Lotus season three has so much incredible cringe in it. I think he received a lot from this particular moment. I think this was an inspiration for him. Look, he has his face in his hands. When you have him cringing, that means you really ascended to a true new level.

[01:26:21] And both people involved with this ended up at the White Lotus. So I think you had there's some truth to that there. Okay. All right. So I'll take the images away here in case we need them for further context. But we have reached officially the elite eight out of the first round of 16. We'll go a little bit quicker through these now that I made the introductions. But let's go back to the top of the order here. So Liana, Banu begging to stay on Survivor 46 versus Nalia giving everyone her mint

[01:26:50] on Survivor Marquesas. Which one you got? So I am going to go with Banu on this one just because and I blame you, Mike, for this for opening up not just that cringe moment, but like all of the cringe that was Banu. But especially God, the Becky moment was so cringe. It was so bad. I got to go with Banu. I'm going to know. I'm going to Leah here. I voted against Banu in the first round. I'll continue to make my pitch here that I think Nalia offering the mint just was also

[01:27:19] a fantastic representation of why she ends up losing a closed vote in a closed jury vote in the end of just clearly not being on the same page socially as everybody else. Yeah. Nalia has probably had more ramifications because I think it is indicative of like one of the reasons why she lost the game. There is the nostalgia factor because this goes all the way back to Marquesas. I literally remember watching this as a kid, but in terms of what's more cringe, I think it has to be Banu. I think Banu is the cringiest person they've cast.

[01:27:49] I think that him on the ground is very representative of all of his other cringe moments. And I think Banu needs to move on in this tournament. All right. Next up in the Elite Eight, David Murphy's Redemption Island proposal versus Shannon Elkins in New York is full of gay people. A one-two punch of 21 and 22. I'll go with the fairly easy choice from my perspective here and go with David Murphy, not only because of the cringe that lies in the moment, but also the long tail as David

[01:28:18] Murphy got some tail from a different party after proposing to Carolina, as opposed to again, we talked about why Shannon does provide an incredibly cringe moment in the moment. But like people don't really talk about Shannon Elkins in retrospect. Like this was an entire story baked into one excruciating long three-minute segment. So that's my vote. Jordan, what about you? I agree with you. I think the Shannon one, like I, it was definitely cringy.

[01:28:45] I voted for it over the Adam podium thing, which I thought that like that matchup were maybe two of the less cringy things that were on this list. I think, but one of them had to win David proposing where he clearly like caught her off guard on national television. This is a live moment too, which I think adds to the cringe. Um, I think that moves on over the Shannon Elkins, uh, gay people in New York city. Yeah. Make it a threesome. We're going for it. Yeah. It's gotta be the proposal. No, the Aussie question.

[01:29:14] We already did the Aussie question. Oh yeah. Right. Right. All right. Next up here, Billy falling in love with Candace versus survivor 48 fried chicken and waffles chant. Jordan, who are you fisting between, between the two? Well, I might like to have a fistful of fried chicken and maybe some waffles to go on the side. Uh, fried chicken and waffles has, has the, the recency factor. It just, it just happened.

[01:29:44] So I haven't washed the cringe off yet from the chicken grease, but Billy Garcia is, is the more cringy moment out of the two of these. I gotta move. I gotta vote for Billy Garcia here. Yeah. Listen, like Billy, if he wanted to could have done an entire chant about Candace, uh, like considering he was also a musician, he could have penned an entire heavy metal song about it that we just didn't know about between the time that he was voted out and finding out later on that she had, uh, been courting another bow. So it's Billy easily for me.

[01:30:13] Liana, do you have a word against her as a three Oh again? I'm, I'm going to give a sympathy vote to the chicken and waffles mainly because of Jeff the moment with Jeff. Um, but other than that, no, I, I, if you two didn't vote for Billy, I would have added another vote for, for Billy. So that one's definitely got to move through. All right. Now here's a pretty heavy hitter one. Liana to take us home in the elite eight Aussie final tribal council question in Micronesia

[01:30:42] versus Natalie. Can I have your jacket? It's so funny. Cause I didn't vote for the Aussie one in the, like this Aussie moment in the first round, because that redemption Island moment is just so funny to me, but in this round, I am going to go ahead and give it to Aussie. I, I, I think just because there's so like, again, I think of like that uncomfortable feeling

[01:31:06] like I want to, I'm looking for the uncomfortableness, but still with a tinge of funny, I feel like the Angelina moment is like more funny and a little bit less cringe. So that's the only reason why I'm going to go with Aussie, but I think both deserve to move on. Jordan, what about you? This one's really tough for me. I, the, the Aussie one is incredibly cringy. Uh, he barely knew him. And also just like, it is also added to it.

[01:31:36] It's just like the venom towards Arvati, which was like undeserved. Like he's, he's a three-time player. Or actually he's a two-time player at this point. Um, and he will two-time Amanda soon after that. That's true. But maybe the, uh, the, the history afterwards is also, um, we're working against him or maybe for him in terms of moving on. The Natalie jacket is definitely the moment. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's better. It's a better moment. It's a more fun moment. And it is also very cringy. Um, which one is more cringy?

[01:32:06] I, I almost think that with Angelina. Yeah. Is it, was it more cringy when she came up with the whole like fake idol plan later, later in the game? That was like, that's also a very cringy Angelina moment. And I do think this is the most cringy Aussie moment, but you know what? I'm going to make you make the decision, Mike, because I, I, I still think this is incredibly cringy.

[01:32:31] One of the reasons why, uh, Angelina is such a, such a fun survivor character and why someone who, you know, needs to come back on the show, uh, is because of the cringe factor. And yes, she's like, I think that she's also like an intelligent player. I think she is sort of self-aware, but I think the fact that she's half self-aware and then also does these cringy things makes her gold. And I got, I think I got to go with the Natalie, the Natalie can I have your jacket? Yeah. I mean, it is an absolutely fantastic moment.

[01:33:01] And it's also one of the, the rare moments, especially in this final group that like involves multiple parties, right? Like the reason why it's so cringe is because Natalie does not dignify it with a response, right? That like, and almost feels like almost the end of like a curb episode where it's like, Angelina has gone through this entire motion, like to purposely blindside Natalie so that she catches her unaware. So she can get her jacket because she's so cold only to fall completely flat on her face. It is so much fun. It's a huge signifier to your point, Jordan, about like, cause we didn't really know Angelina

[01:33:30] up to that point. Cause I, Leon, I always remember this clear as day. Sometimes it's like a shower thought. Remember that game we had early on in David versus Goliath of like Angelina or Natalia, because they were so indistinguishable between the two and the first three episodes of the show that was like, Oh, we don't know which one's which like Angelina obviously made her mark in a major way. And this was sort of the first way to do it. But look, I'm a sucker for narrative and I could think of no better way to have a final

[01:34:00] four matchup happen than the way mother nature intended, which was to have Billy. Billy Garcia and Ozzy Luth in a rematch against one another. So I'm giving it to Ozzy here. I guess Ozzy is the snake then. Yes. Depends on who you ask. Oh, all right. Certainly does bite. Final four. We're not making fire here, folks. An out and out vote. So let's do this. Let's let's have some fun here.

[01:34:29] I will count down from three. I'll go three, two, one, go. And then we'll say either Bonu or David. So it is Bonu begging to be spared versus David Murphy at Redemption Island. So I will get count. This is a good. This is a really good matchup. I almost this is a yeah. This is tough. So we'll just say, you know, top of the noggin. Three, two, one, either Billy or David. All right. Five. Wait. Was it Billy? Bonu. Bonu.

[01:34:59] Bonu. Bonu. Bonu. Bonu. Here we go. Okay. Three, two, one. Bonu. Bonu. What? I feel like Jordan and I have been like, so like we were really deeply impacted by Bonu. Like, obviously that just clears. I'm clearly incredibly immune here to just, uh, again, I'm patient zero for cringe. So like I'm, I was relatively fine with the Bonu experience. Apparently you two have been traumatized by him. Oh no. I loved the Bonu.

[01:35:28] Like I, I totally get why people have a negative reaction to him. Obviously completely understand that. I loved Bonu. I mean, it was too much and I'm happy he went when he did because if it had continued that way, oh my God, I don't know what I would have done, but the cringe is just off the charts. Like it's off the charts with Bonu. I'm sorry. It's so cringy. He's so cringy. Like I, I did not, I started to like not enjoy the scenes with Bonu on the screen because it was so cringy.

[01:35:54] The David stuff, like I will go back and watch that YouTube video because of how cringe it is. And it's fun. But the Bonu, like it's so cringy that it's like, it makes me uncomfortable and not a lot of things make me uncomfortable. All right. Well, let, let the, let it be known folks who is on the right side of history here. Who voted for a marriage being built up on straw only to be blown down by the big bad wolf. That was Alicia Rosa from survivor one world. Okay. I listen. I totally get it.

[01:36:24] I'm, I'm more than happy with some upsets here. We need some surprises. There's not a lot of surprises happening on our screens. Let's make some surprises in this bracket. Hmm. Okay. All right. Other side of the final again, here we have two, two former I2 members, two hopeless romantics who just wanted a bit more time in the game with their sweeties in the form of Billy and Ozzie.

[01:36:49] So again, we'll do a three, two, one, and then either Billy or Ozzie. I'll be completely honest. This is the harder matchup for me personally. This is a, this is a very interesting. Okay. Three, two, one, go. Billy Garcia. Ozzie. Okay. There we go. I'll be continued to be in the minority in true I2 fashion. Mm-hmm. All right. Liana, give me your thoughts. Why did, why did you pick Billy over Ozzie here?

[01:37:19] I just, it's my, my gut. I mean, I, come on. Like you, I just, I had to go with Billy here. I think maybe there's also something about like the longevity of the meme throughout history that also sort of adds to the cringe of that moment. Like even when I, oh God, it's just so cringy. It's so cringy. It's just, it's my gut. My gut is telling me to go with Billy and that's where I went. Jordan, what about you? Yeah. I went, I went with Billy also. Uh, I, I think to Liana brought up the, uh, the Jeff probes factor.

[01:37:49] I think his reaction adds to the cringiness of this moment. Yeah. Um, I, I think that, uh, the, the first, the first interaction when they're on the mat and he clearly says, she clearly says, we love you. And he says, I love you too. But who know, who knew that like that moment would have gotten then taken over tribal council and been like the most, uh, the most memorable thing from that whole episode. Uh, I think also like, this is an episode where Billy's tribe threw the challenge to get rid of him.

[01:38:17] Um, and this is what he's, he's doing a travel. He thinks that Candace from the other tribe, uh, fell in love with him and that he's in love with her. Um, so I think that is more cringy. The Aussie stuff is very, it's very cringy. I did actually voted. I voted for Natalie over Aussie in the previous round, but I think that that was a very, uh, strong, uh, corner of the bracket. Uh, so, so I, I had to go Billy, but the Aussie one is, is, um, is really good too. I, I, after we record this, I want to go back and watch the Aussie travel council thing

[01:38:46] more because I don't have the one committed to memory as much as some of the other ones. Billy gets his revenge or I guess Aussie did depends on like, this is a thing where if you're doing better, are you doing worse? You know, in this type of bracket, you know, if you're more cringe is that does that help you or hurt you? So here we are folks, the final matchup. It is Banu begging to be spared versus Billy Garcia declaring his love for Candace Woodcock.

[01:39:16] Now listen, this is Survivor. So let me change things up yet again here. I think it would be fun if we all separately write down our answers so we can talk through some stuff here if there's any final points that anybody wants to make, but we all separately write down what we want to pick and then we will reveal it. You know, there's no way we're going to influence each other's decisions. Jordan, let me take a peek inside that noggin of yours. What's going through your head at this moment as you're trying to make a decision? All right.

[01:39:45] So am I going with the bond? So the Banu thing, the picture that you showed is him on the ground. So that is one of many cringy Banu moments, but I think that they all sort of work together because that every cringy Banu moment before that led to him getting on his knees, which led to the tribal council where they didn't even have to cast votes because it was so obvious that he was going. Where do I go with the Billy Garcia moment, which is so cringy that it's really become

[01:40:13] one of the most famous moments in Survivor history. And this is a guy that Billy Garcia without that would not even be a remembered Survivor player, right? He would be someone who got voted out second, has tried through the challenge to get rid of him. And we might remember Billy Garcia because of his shirt. He had a memorable shirt, but he would have been sort of like a lost character in Survivor history. Instead, he is someone who goes to every Survivor event. You see him everywhere. This guy is all over the place. And I think that if he didn't have that big of a reputation, I don't know if we would have that.

[01:40:42] So I think that this turned Billy Garcia into a Survivor legend. Um, and not because of his gameplay, but because of the cringiness. So I, I'm really weighing between those two things. Do I go with like a legendary moment or do I go with the one that like made my skin crawl? All right. Liana, what was going through your head as you were writing down your vote? Yeah. So I have, I've made my final decision.

[01:41:07] I don't want to reveal too much, but I had sort of a similar, so my debate was about what happens in the, over the course of essentially like half an episode. Okay. Maybe, maybe a full episode if you want to consider it versus more of a multi-episode arc of cringe. So those are sort of the two things I'm factoring in. Like, for example, I think of Bonu when I think of Bonu on Survivor, I think of all of it, right? I don't think of necessarily just that one moment, but with Billy, I do think of that

[01:41:36] one moment on Survivor. And so I'm weighing like, how much does each of that weigh? Like, is it better to have like a concentrated jolt of cringe or are we spreading out our cringe over multiple episodes? So that was really the ultimate marshmallow test of cringe. So true. Yes. Do I exactly don't want all my cringe at once or can I separate the cringe over a few days? So that was really what was going through my head because both of these moments incredibly cringe and both, I think are spots in the finals deserve it. All right.

[01:42:06] Well, let, let me start here as we begin to reveal our own ballots because I love love here. And look, there have been many people who have, you know, done some, some wild things to try to stave away the dread of Jeff Kroop snuffing your torch at tribal council. Maybe people have not gone down on their knees and begged. And that was a lot. And Banu was a lot.

[01:42:34] But there is just something almost epic about what Billy Garcia did, right? The idea that this guy had, I will use the term lovingly so, deluded himself into the fact that this woman who he has exchanged maybe a dozen words with over the past five days was someone that he could actually see himself in love with.

[01:43:03] And what makes it even worse is again to me, the fact that she found someone on the island afterwards. That's what makes it even more cringy is that it wasn't just like Candace being like, haha, that's weird. Okay, moving on. It was like, oh, but she did find someone, Billy. It just wasn't you. And then I also, I was watching a video of it and like, much like Shannon, the moment turns tribal council, like Jeff then has to go to like Ozzy, like Ozzy, what do you think

[01:43:33] about what Billy is saying? JP, what do you make of this Billy Candace romance? Like clearly he knows that he is in for very unprecedented waters. At that moment. And so I think that we should honor how unprecedented it is by voting it as the cringiest moment in survivor history. Jordan, reveal your ballot. Before I reveal my vote. Can I, can I play this? Can I play this mayor of sand? Can I play this mayor of sand buff? Yeah. So you want to play that buff? Yes.

[01:44:02] I want to, I want to play it. Can I play it? No, you cannot. So then I will reveal. I, I went back and forth in my head and I thought, what is more cringy? I put the word cringe into my brain cells and I was like, which one embodies that word? And I voted for Banu. Oh, I voted Banu.

[01:44:27] I think that Banu is the cringiest person that has been on the show outside of like the real creeps. Okay. But I think that Banu, every single thing that he did on this show, his confessionals, his tribal council performances, his begging, everything was so cringy. Justice for Brian Cohen. And I'll, and here's, I wasn't going to say this before because it would have given my, my final vote away.

[01:44:53] I actually think that the, uh, the Banu and David side of the bracket, those were the two that I was really thinking, which are, which is the most cringe. The Billy García moment is definitely more legendary, but I think cringe factor it's to me, it's Banu. Liana, this is so interesting. You're the kingmaker here between Banu and Billy two pre-merged legends. One of them will be crowned the king of cringe. Who will it be? Yes. Okay.

[01:45:21] So I had already locked in my vote. Um, I, okay. I guess I like my marshmallows all at once. I did go with Billy. I think Jordan, it's so funny. Cause from the moment you started talking about Banu and round one, I was like, Banu impacted this man deeply. Banu had a profound effect on Jordan Kalish.

[01:45:48] He made my favorite show like unwatchable for four weeks. So I'm so happy that we have a Banu truther and that we could be in lockstep essentially through all of the Banu votes, but I did have to deviate this time. I think there's just something essentially also about the longevity of the moment that I had to go with. And of course, everything that Mike had mentioned, but it was a very tough competition.

[01:46:13] And I'm, I think I'm happy with Billy being the representative of the cringe bracket. No, we don't want things to go completely by the book and predictable. So I'm always grateful for, you know, Jordan, you being that Banu stumper and Liana, you joining in for most of the ride to have this a little bit of a Cinderella story happen. Right. It's, it's, uh, Banu made it to the end, baby. He did it. Uh, and it would have been your worst nightmare in reality.

[01:46:40] Well, yeah, that's why like, I'm not that worried about 48. I know I've, I guess when we were talking about the episode, I probably seem somewhat down on it because it's not like my favorite season of the new era. And I think that things seem like they're just going to keep going in the same direction. I hope there's, there's some sort of, uh, you know, power shift here, but even if there's not like, it's not as cringy as that. So I'm, I'm, I'm happy that it's, I still am excited to watch the next episode and see what happens.

[01:47:08] See, that's a very good perspective to have is that look again, there, there were some, uh, unlike the fried chicken, some unsavory things that happened in this most recent episode. So not some, not very enjoyable things that we tend to get out of some of the survivor at its best, but looking back upon survivor history, we can always remember it can be a lot, lot worse to finish things off as we usually do on the BNB. We hand the spotlight over to our guests to highlight a charity or cause that is important

[01:47:38] to them. Jordan, it's on you this week. What would you want to highlight for the listeners out there? Uh, so, so the charity that I want to, uh, that I want to give a shout out to is the ACLU, uh, the American civil liberties union. There are a lot of things that we talk about survivor being cringe, but you know, who's a lot more cringy than Bonu. A lot of the people running our country right now, and guess what, guess what they are putting a lot of people, not to joke about it, but they are putting a lot of people's livelihoods,

[01:48:07] their lives in, in danger right now. The ACLU is an organization that fights against a lot of the injustices that we have seen, uh, that have been caused by our government. So I think that they are a very worthwhile, uh, organization to, uh, donate to these days and anything that you could think of that's, uh, that, that the current administration is, is doing, uh, is being fought by the ACLU. So that was sort of like an umbrella for the thing, for the, of the things that I care about right now. Yeah.

[01:48:33] I will say actually one of my unconscious things that I brought into my judging criteria is like, which moment would Elon Musk like more? And whichever one he likes more, I judged more heavily in favor of cringe. Oh my God. That's so funny. Yeah. Who would, who would, who could you see in a cyber truck, um, or using signal chat? Yeah. People can't even afford fried chicken and waffles right now because of the tariffs. Exactly. Uh, that's so great.

[01:49:01] Well, Jordan, thank you as always for bringing, uh, you know, your knowledge, your opinions and yourself in particular to the B and B. Also, I didn't realize we ended on a B versus B showdown. Incredibly appropriate for the podcast. It was a predestined, but Jordan, I'm going to say, Jordan, you've got plenty going on out there in the survivor universe. So that's putting out anti-Banu propaganda on the internet. What do you have going on? Well, I guess. So you could always listen to this week in survivor history at the end of the exit interviews on our HAP.

[01:49:31] If you haven't, uh, went down, if you haven't gone down that, uh, rabbit hole yet, it's, uh, it's always a trip. Um, I, uh, I'm, I'm actually recording a podcast this week, uh, about the Nathan Fielder show, the rehearsal. And, uh, I, I'm going to stall while I just want to make sure I get the name of the podcast right. Uh, big, big week for a paramount plus home of all the back catalog of survivor on the rehearsal. Yeah.

[01:49:57] But it's, it's Kelly, it's Kelly, it's Kelly Ann White and, and, uh, and, um, it is, uh, Bianca's podcast. Uh, they are, they are patrons. They were posting about the, uh, sorry, sorry. Let me, let me take that again because I said the name. Yeah, no problem. Do you mind? Okay. Sorry. Kelly and Megan, uh, from the patron group, they, they posted in the RHAP page. Uh, they posted me, RJP patron group, uh, that they have been watching the rehearsal and they're doing podcasts about it.

[01:50:23] I've watched everything, uh, Nathan for you related, including the, uh, the rehearsal and of course, Nathan for you back in the day. Uh, so I am excited for the opportunity to, uh, to talk about that show by the time you're listening to that. When did, when does this come out? This comes out, uh, Sunday night, Monday morning. All right. So, so it won't be out yet, but I, I, it'll, we're recording on Tuesday night. Uh, the episode of the rehearsal is Sunday night. If you're not watching the rehearsal, definitely watch the rehearsal. One of the best shows currently on TV.

[01:50:52] My, my comment in the, uh, Facebook group is that I am enjoying it far more than, uh, that's your five or four. All right. Personally, Dorsen from Jordan Kalish. And also I would say Nathan Fielder to a certain extent, like an expert on cringe. Oh, yeah. A lot of the, uh, the Nathan for you days of, uh, you know, his encountering the things that real people actually somehow are able to utter out of their mouths in front of this man. I mean, talk about the Vince Sly hug.

[01:51:18] He had a whole series of cringy hugs on a Nathan for you. All right. Liana, now that you're settled back in besides hopefully filling that room with some furniture, what do you have going on? Yeah, honestly, my butt is so sore. I've been sitting on the floor. We don't have any furniture and like it's, I've got it on some cat carriers, my computer. So we're like, we're living our best life. One day we will have chairs and beds in this, in this house.

[01:51:45] But for now, we're still just plugging along, um, singing a song and trying to get used to our new house. So yeah, that's it for me. All right. You can check out everything I'm doing. Of course, got the chance to talk with star, which was absolutely lovely. Always love the chance. It's getting to hear her sort of unpack, you know, her time in the game. Why she, despite being told explicitly to her face by Mitch, play your shot in the dark. Why she said, nope, not going to do it.

[01:52:14] Uh, she talks a little bit about her response to some of the Eva stuff that was going on with her as well. Both why she gave the idol to her and her reaction to Eva subsequently targeting her. So really recommend that the amazing race. I had Sasha on this week and Jess is dead for a trip to Italy. That was a lot of fun and a bunch of other stuff going on and or last of us battle star Galactica over on, we know scripted TV. That's going to do it this week for the BNB. I know that we are rounding the corner here.

[01:52:41] Only three weeks left of survivor 48. I think to represent a lot of what a lot of us are saying again, not the best week by any stretch of the imagination, but still some intrigue coming down the pike. Even if it does turn out that these, you know, outsiders get picked off one right after the other, there still has to be a winner at the end of this. And so I'm incredibly intrigued to see where the game goes in multiple ways.

[01:53:06] You can always send us games as we talk about said episodes here on the BNB, R-I-J-P-B-N-B at gmail.com. Here's the hashtag R-I-J-P-B-N-B, or you can DM me at a Mike Bloom type. Any and all ideas that you might have are incredibly welcome. We just did an entire freaking cringe tournament. Like our inboxes are totally open and available for you to slide in there with any game suggestions that you might have. Special thanks to Scott St. Pierre and the entire team behind the scenes at R-I-J-P for packaging this podcast for your

[01:53:36] eyes and your ears. And speaking of ears, Wolf from America has got that incredible theme song, which those of you listening to the audio version will be hearing on your way out very soon. Liana and I will be back next week with another guest talking about episode 11 of Survivor 48. Until next time, everybody, we'll check you out at your next day. Mike and Liana gather playing some games. You better pray to your mama that they're not super lame.

[01:54:04] And if that all sounds cool, I can tell you the name. H-A-P-B-N-B. Mike and Liana gather playing some games. Let a pray to your mama that they're not super lame. And if that all sounds cool, I can tell you the name. It's the R-H-A-P-B-N-B.

[01:54:34] Wir sind Teresa und Nemo. Und deshalb sind wir zu Shopify gewechselt. Die Plattform, die wir vor Shopify verwendet haben, hat regelmäßig Updates gebraucht, die teilweise dazu geführt haben, dass der Shop nicht funktioniert hat. Endlich macht unser Nemo Boards Shop dadurch auch auf den Mobilgeräten eine gute Figur. Und die Illustrationen auf den Boards kommen jetzt viel, viel klarer rüber, was uns ja auch wichtig ist und was unsere Marke auch ausmacht.