Survivor 46 | Survivor Global Week 9 | Eden Porter

[00:00:00] The Australian Survivors

[00:00:07] Survivor is a survivor in New Zealand

[00:00:09] Survivor

[00:00:11] 21 South African 12 ordinary Australians

[00:00:17] 16 New Zealanders

[00:00:19] 20 million pounds

[00:00:22] 1 million euros

[00:00:24] 1 million rubles

[00:00:27] Survivor

[00:00:29] Tribe of the Spades

[00:00:31] Tribe of the Spades

[00:00:33] The adventure of a lifetime

[00:00:35] The adventure of a lifetime

[00:00:37] The adventure of a lifetime

[00:00:39] The adventure of a lifetime

[00:00:41] Hello everyone and welcome to RHAP's coverage for Survivor 46 for Survivor Global

[00:00:45] I'm your host Shannon Gaitz here to talk about week 9 and 8 and 7 and 6

[00:00:49] We missed a lot of Survivor, well not we, we all watched Survivor

[00:00:53] I missed a lot of podcasting about Survivor while I was on vacation

[00:00:57] When I left, the season I think was pretty average let's be honest

[00:01:01] You know the pre-emerge left something to be desired and then it got amazing while I was gone

[00:01:05] Which I thought was pretty rude

[00:01:07] It was like damn this got incredible right when I left

[00:01:11] So I have a lot to talk about with the last month

[00:01:15] And where we are at with the season and I have a great guest to do it with

[00:01:19] He is bookending my trip, I last podcasted a few weeks ago on his deep dive

[00:01:23] And now we're going to recap it is a great, what I've called the biggest superfan

[00:01:27] I think possibly global survivor has ever cast

[00:01:31] He is a titan of so many things, it is a great Eden Porter, Eden thank you for being here

[00:01:35] Oh Shannon what an introduction, I cannot, like that's just blown me away

[00:01:39] I can't possibly compare to that mate, you've talked me up too much

[00:01:43] Was it okay? I don't know I haven't introduced anyone in so long

[00:01:47] I haven't even done a podcast in so long I don't even remember how to do it, I was like where is the microphone

[00:01:51] What's going on

[00:01:53] No Shannon thank you so much for having me

[00:01:55] I love talking or think survivor, you know that

[00:01:57] And you know what you've done? You've put four episodes into one big juicy survivor pie

[00:02:02] And I'm ready to chow down mate, this is going to be fantastic

[00:02:05] Yeah it's like a special but you know there's been so much going on

[00:02:11] I really only wasn't podcasting if I think about, like I podcasted this month

[00:02:16] So what like three and a half weeks, which is

[00:02:18] I was going to say it looks like you're having withdrawals, it looks like you

[00:02:21] It's so funny that you were about to say that because I was about to say that

[00:02:24] You know three and a half weeks isn't that long a time but if you would imagine not having a drug

[00:02:29] Three and a half weeks

[00:02:31] That's what you've been going through

[00:02:33] Yeah and that's genuinely the analogy that I was going to make

[00:02:35] So I'm glad that it's so clear to everyone how healthy this hobby is for me or this part time job

[00:02:41] Very very healthy, but Eden how are you?

[00:02:43] You know one of the things that we missed in this time in the book ends is that you did the Melbourne Comedy Festival

[00:02:49] And I said I was going to come visit you and watch the show on my day back from my trip

[00:02:54] You promised, you promised Shannon

[00:02:56] Yeah I think I could have done it but to be fair Peter was going to drive

[00:03:00] And he was asleep before 8pm on the couch

[00:03:03] So I think I could have pushed myself honestly and I was also pretty tired

[00:03:08] It was ambitious to get off an overnight flight

[00:03:10] Yes I think so

[00:03:12] And being like so we started at 8 so technically that was 3am for us

[00:03:16] And imagine if I'd fallen asleep in the show

[00:03:18] That would have been terrible

[00:03:20] It would have been, there's heaps of audience participation Shannon so I would have pulled you off on stage

[00:03:23] And it would have been absolutely fantastic

[00:03:25] It would have been so good

[00:03:27] I think you made that promise definitely before you left

[00:03:31] When it was like yeah I can do anything I'm super worried let's do it

[00:03:34] I'm just like she's not making it don't worry

[00:03:38] I know and I felt so bad because I really feel like I usually can push myself to do that stuff

[00:03:42] But the trip itself was so exhausting

[00:03:44] I also wanted to say for everyone I met in LA, New York

[00:03:48] It was wonderful to meet so many people

[00:03:50] And I really loved every interaction that I had

[00:03:52] But we pushed each other, me and Peter, I'm not saying we pushed each other

[00:03:55] I pushed Peter so much

[00:03:57] Like a weekend half into the trip he's like my body is broken I'm so tired

[00:04:00] And I was like we all will relax when we're back at work

[00:04:03] Which is, and the reason that's funny is because Peter has like 14 hour work days

[00:04:06] And I still think that will be more relaxing than our trip

[00:04:08] But anyway getting off that and then the idea to go to your show

[00:04:12] Which is something I really wanted to do was more ambitious than I had anticipated

[00:04:16] But anyway this is such a segue

[00:04:18] I'm remembering podcasting, I go on really long tangents

[00:04:20] How was your experience at the Comedy Festival?

[00:04:24] The show was great it was a fantastic two weeks

[00:04:26] Some great crowds

[00:04:28] We actually did a Survivor Night where we got all the Melbourne based Survivor alumni

[00:04:32] From Titans vs Rebels to come down

[00:04:34] And we did a shout out to a bunch of the fans came down

[00:04:36] Was that the last night that I missed?

[00:04:38] No no no

[00:04:40] That was like the first Friday

[00:04:42] It was actually really fun

[00:04:44] And there's a few little nods to Survivor in the show

[00:04:46] It was definitely not a Survivor based comedy show

[00:04:48] But it was really fun

[00:04:50] I do it with my brother, we're called Game Boys

[00:04:52] Game Boys Comedy

[00:04:54] We had a great crowd, we had a great run

[00:04:58] And look it's just something really fun that I really enjoy doing

[00:05:02] Like getting up on stage

[00:05:04] Again this is like a drug for me Shannon

[00:05:06] I itch to get back on stage and do stuff

[00:05:08] Because I spend so much time in the cinema

[00:05:10] Managing people

[00:05:12] And then to get back on stage and do some comedy

[00:05:14] It was so much fun

[00:05:16] We did have a bunch of reality TV references in it

[00:05:18] Lots of movie references

[00:05:20] Even a couple of Simpsons and Seinfeld

[00:05:22] And Friends references

[00:05:24] Oh wow, Seinfeld would have gone

[00:05:26] When are you coming to Sydney?

[00:05:28] Yeah exactly

[00:05:30] Bye bye

[00:05:32] Actually that was the other thing

[00:05:34] A lot of people from the Survivor community

[00:05:36] Would have loved to have seen the show

[00:05:38] But I got a lot of messages like

[00:05:40] Hey we're in Scotland or hey we're in like

[00:05:42] America

[00:05:44] Go on tour

[00:05:46] We do Scotland, we do the States

[00:05:48] Everything like that

[00:05:50] But it was really fun and the support was fantastic

[00:05:52] We had such a good time

[00:05:54] Okay well next year, I know I promised before

[00:05:56] Next year I will be there

[00:05:58] I'm going to be there

[00:06:00] Front row next year

[00:06:02] But I'm glad that it went so well

[00:06:04] And then how have you felt about

[00:06:06] Survivor 46 in the

[00:06:08] Last few weeks

[00:06:10] Or about the season overall?

[00:06:12] Well it was, look it was a tough slog

[00:06:14] The start of the season, I'm not going to lie

[00:06:16] Coming off the back of my season

[00:06:18] And watching that

[00:06:20] And then jumping straight back into all these new people

[00:06:22] And everything like that, it was tough

[00:06:24] It didn't grab me straight away

[00:06:26] It was hard work

[00:06:28] And then you got to get through all of that

[00:06:30] To get to this

[00:06:32] This merge has just been so good

[00:06:34] There's been so much fun happening

[00:06:36] But yeah I found

[00:06:38] A bit of a slog at the start

[00:06:40] And it wasn't grabbing me

[00:06:42] I think I did have a bit of survivor fatigue

[00:06:44] Just from doing so much

[00:06:46] With Titans vs Rebels

[00:06:48] And watching that and doing so much media

[00:06:50] And talking to people about it

[00:06:52] I just needed a little bit of breathing room

[00:06:54] And now I just

[00:06:56] There's a couple of episodes in, I was like yep cool this is fine

[00:06:58] And now I've just sunk back in

[00:07:00] I'm locked in now

[00:07:02] On Survivor US

[00:07:04] And I'm really excited to be chatting about it

[00:07:06] Because there's a lot of interesting characters

[00:07:08] I think the casting has really come

[00:07:10] To the top now

[00:07:12] The people that are left, all really interesting

[00:07:14] All really exciting

[00:07:16] Really fun

[00:07:18] Maybe similar to Titans vs Rebels

[00:07:20] Maybe people not always doing things in their best interests

[00:07:22] But still makes for some great TV

[00:07:24] And some great gameplay

[00:07:26] I'm really enjoying it now

[00:07:28] It's possible US Survivor is doing this with the even numbered seasons on purpose

[00:07:30] So they'll have a bad pre-merge on purpose

[00:07:32] Because they know that we're watching Australian Survivor

[00:07:34] And it's too much and we can't focus on it

[00:07:36] So 44 I hated that pre-merge

[00:07:38] It was so twist based, it might just be the new era pre-merges

[00:07:40] Don't grab me

[00:07:42] They're super twisty, the three tribes have spoken about it at length

[00:07:44] And then this pre-merge as well

[00:07:46] But then by the time Australian Survivor ends

[00:07:48] We're into the post-merge

[00:07:50] And they know that we can give it our focus

[00:07:52] 44 and now 46

[00:07:54] Four episodes

[00:07:56] Four episodes of Survivor a week

[00:07:58] Is too much

[00:08:00] Three episodes of Australia and then one of America

[00:08:02] It's too much for one man or woman

[00:08:04] So yeah

[00:08:06] Now we've got some breathing room

[00:08:08] It's really happening, it's really vibrant

[00:08:10] And you have come back to this craziness

[00:08:12] You left probably going

[00:08:14] Here we are, season 46

[00:08:16] And then as soon as you go away

[00:08:18] Fireworks start

[00:08:20] I did have high hopes because I have always liked the cast

[00:08:22] And I knew that there was going to be some breathing room

[00:08:24] And we still had the split tribal

[00:08:26] We still had Murgatory

[00:08:28] At the point where many of the people were going to start voting

[00:08:30] I was like this can be really interesting

[00:08:32] And it has been, which is great

[00:08:34] I've gone back, I watched it every week

[00:08:36] But reviewing parties

[00:08:38] Usually I watched the episodes all twice

[00:08:40] And then I podcast about them

[00:08:42] Do secret scenes, do exits

[00:08:44] Write so much notes, I'm involved

[00:08:46] Watching but I wasn't consuming while I was gone

[00:08:48] And so over these last three days

[00:08:50] I've watched the last four again

[00:08:52] I've watched and listened to

[00:08:54] All the exit interviews, all the secret scenes

[00:08:56] All the content that I could find

[00:08:58] Started getting a little bit back into the podcast

[00:09:00] As most of you know it also speak already

[00:09:02] So it's been a lot

[00:09:04] It's been pretty much my only thought for the last three days

[00:09:06] Fully back into it

[00:09:08] But it makes it easier in that it has been

[00:09:10] I think a really fantastic

[00:09:12] Four weeks of the show where

[00:09:14] I think especially last week

[00:09:16] The Tevin Group was my favorite of the four

[00:09:18] Then probably the Split Tribal

[00:09:20] Then maybe this week then Murgatory

[00:09:22] But there's been so much good stuff

[00:09:24] Because this cast is

[00:09:26] I think uniquely intense

[00:09:28] The fact that the rice negotiation fails

[00:09:30] I think it's a great symbol of the cast

[00:09:32] They're on edge, they're so intense

[00:09:34] The level of toxicity

[00:09:36] That clearly exists between them

[00:09:38] Even after the show is in many ways

[00:09:40] Kind of uncomfortable but I think speaks to

[00:09:42] How intense the gameplay is

[00:09:44] On the island, I think it's quite interesting

[00:09:46] But as well, I thought the rice negotiation

[00:09:48] Really also highlighted

[00:09:50] People's lack of self awareness

[00:09:52] Like there were people

[00:09:54] That sort of said

[00:09:56] You know what, I need to be safe

[00:09:58] They actually weren't thinking

[00:10:00] Am I going to be able to beat

[00:10:02] Like Hunter and all these other people

[00:10:04] Out here

[00:10:06] They weren't thinking, oh okay

[00:10:08] I'm probably not going to win this, I can get rice, I can do this

[00:10:10] And so that to me shows a level

[00:10:12] That people are just not understanding

[00:10:14] Whether they're in the game

[00:10:16] And they're just not understanding their own strengths and abilities

[00:10:18] Because how many people, what four people

[00:10:20] Dropped out instantly

[00:10:22] And that's why I think Liz and Q

[00:10:24] At least knew what was happening

[00:10:26] They were the first two

[00:10:28] And we'll probably get into Liz later

[00:10:30] But I think her level of self awareness

[00:10:32] Is at least there being like

[00:10:34] I'm not going to win this, I'm going to step out, that's fine

[00:10:36] You've got a couple of these other guys

[00:10:38] I'm in with a chance

[00:10:40] Venus, she actually was in with a chance

[00:10:42] She actually did back herself and she did really well

[00:10:44] But everyone else, yeah

[00:10:46] Bad call

[00:10:48] That's true

[00:10:50] So there's a couple of things we can point to

[00:10:52] On the trends of this cast

[00:10:54] And I want to talk about some of those kind of macro trends

[00:10:56] Because it's interesting

[00:10:58] When I look back at the last month

[00:11:00] I'm like how are we going to talk about the last month

[00:11:02] We're still staying kind of relevant to now

[00:11:04] Because I understand not everyone just went back

[00:11:06] Crazy to me by the way, because that's what I was doing for Return of the Outcast

[00:11:08] When there was four episodes, five episodes, five episodes of South Africa

[00:11:10] This was a lot of work

[00:11:12] So we've done it before

[00:11:14] I've covered this amount before

[00:11:16] Although Mike and I were doing four hour podcasts for that

[00:11:18] So we're not doing that today

[00:11:20] But one of the most interesting things

[00:11:22] I felt is I'm like okay this month

[00:11:24] Since Murgatory that I'm

[00:11:26] Looking at here

[00:11:28] Is really like a chronological story

[00:11:30] Of each tribe imploding

[00:11:32] And like not everyone's doing

[00:11:34] Terribly obviously because some people can rise from that implosion

[00:11:36] But every single tribe did

[00:11:38] Chronologically implode

[00:11:40] Which we'll talk about like see you come in

[00:11:42] I think doing really poorly, they suffer for that

[00:11:44] Then Nami turn on each other like Nami is dead

[00:11:46] No one could consider Venus Nami

[00:11:48] Basically lives as the only like pretty much

[00:11:50] OG Nami left

[00:11:52] And Yarnu I think on the precipice of total implosion

[00:11:54] It's crazy that they're the tribe that hasn't lost anyone since I left

[00:11:56] And yet I still feel like it's gone pretty badly

[00:11:58] For many of them

[00:12:00] In different ways

[00:12:02] So that's been kind of the story of that implosion

[00:12:04] And we can probably speak to that

[00:12:06] Strategically

[00:12:08] What I wanted to bring up was that

[00:12:10] That's been like the main

[00:12:12] Kind of theme in that

[00:12:14] People turning on their number one ally has been

[00:12:16] The thing everyone's talking about

[00:12:18] And it's interesting coming from Titans V Rebels

[00:12:20] Where you know I said there was like

[00:12:22] No truism in the season, no one would vote together necessarily

[00:12:24] Every time

[00:12:26] At the point that we got to like the final

[00:12:28] But once Valeria went at the final eight

[00:12:30] No one had the exact same voting record

[00:12:32] But there was like a level of loyalty of

[00:12:34] But I still wouldn't vote against you

[00:12:36] You know Kitty and Caroline might diverge in ways

[00:12:38] And as we soon found out like keep each other in the know

[00:12:40] But they wouldn't vote against each other

[00:12:42] Like Raymond wasn't going to vote against Ferris

[00:12:44] But here that truism is somehow

[00:12:46] Even less

[00:12:48] So what do you make of the fact that

[00:12:50] It's been such a big theme of the season

[00:12:52] So what's interesting, and you mentioned Titans V Rebels

[00:12:54] There, and the biggest difference

[00:12:56] If you look back over the season

[00:12:58] Very few times in that whole season

[00:13:00] Did anyone actually have to vote out someone

[00:13:02] That they really really cared about

[00:13:04] Like Mark never had to vote up Valeria

[00:13:06] Ferris never had to vote up Ray

[00:13:08] Kirby never voted out Riri

[00:13:10] These people actually didn't have to cut the throats of their number

[00:13:12] The middle-aged mafia didn't vote each other out

[00:13:14] Exactly, exactly, and that's because of the fluid nature

[00:13:16] Of all the groups and everyone joined up at different times

[00:13:18] This complete opposite

[00:13:20] Everyone is literally thinking

[00:13:22] I need to destroy this person

[00:13:24] Closest to me because

[00:13:26] They're taking credit for my moves

[00:13:28] They're taking credit for this stuff

[00:13:30] And I need a big move on my resume

[00:13:32] I have never heard as many people

[00:13:34] Get so upset about not getting credit

[00:13:36] For moves and

[00:13:38] Blindsides and stuff

[00:13:40] To the point of now I need to get rid of that person

[00:13:42] Because everyone thinks they did it

[00:13:44] And now I need to get on top of them

[00:13:46] And I need to be the one to cut their throats

[00:13:48] Like between

[00:13:50] Timon and Liz

[00:13:52] Just that breakdown of

[00:13:54] I was upset and Timon was laughing at her

[00:13:56] Saying she didn't really do it and then Liz was upset

[00:13:58] With Timon because he thought that he did it

[00:14:00] I'm like man this is inception

[00:14:02] This is dreams within dreams within dreams

[00:14:04] It was absolutely wild

[00:14:06] Look the nature of it, everyone is thinking about their resumes

[00:14:08] Everyone is thinking about what I can say at the end

[00:14:10] People have lost

[00:14:12] That golden rule of

[00:14:14] Survivor which is

[00:14:16] Look you can pull off moves, just plant seeds in people's heads

[00:14:18] Get other people to do the dirty work for you

[00:14:20] Plant these seeds and then get to

[00:14:22] Final travel council and then

[00:14:24] As the puppet master reveal your

[00:14:26] Plans to the group and put it all out there

[00:14:28] And say well you know when I said this that actually

[00:14:30] Meant this happened, everyone is

[00:14:32] Just so like no no no I need to be the person

[00:14:34] That stands up on top and says I

[00:14:36] Got out Soda or I got out Tevin

[00:14:38] This is my move everyone look at me

[00:14:40] And I think we're even reverting to

[00:14:42] This is the same thing that happened in like

[00:14:44] Australian Survivor like

[00:14:46] Champions vs Contenders where as soon as one

[00:14:48] Person did a move they

[00:14:50] Had the flag on top of their head and everyone said okay they're next

[00:14:52] Let's vote them out immediately

[00:14:54] Someone doesn't move, okay they're next, vote them out immediately

[00:14:56] And this is sort of happening like people

[00:14:58] Are claiming things and instantly getting voted

[00:15:00] Off next and it's yeah it's

[00:15:02] It's wild, it's not my favorite gameplay because

[00:15:04] You do lose some really good characters

[00:15:06] Like Tevin's and stuff like that along the way that are

[00:15:08] Really fun that um and I

[00:15:10] Think that was a loss for the season him leaving

[00:15:12] As well because I thought actually he was a very

[00:15:14] Very fun character

[00:15:16] But it's yeah it's really interesting how

[00:15:18] It sort of panned out that way. Yeah Tevin's journey

[00:15:20] Is so interesting coming from the pre-season

[00:15:22] Where it was like okay this guy's gonna be like the

[00:15:24] Marianne level star um which has ended

[00:15:26] Up being Q which we can kind of talk about

[00:15:28] In very different ways but yeah his

[00:15:30] Journey was so kind of caught up in

[00:15:32] In Venus I remember the shock for me was that

[00:15:34] A big Venus Tevin scene

[00:15:36] Ended up being a secret scene I was like oh

[00:15:38] So this isn't going to be even as relevant

[00:15:40] As we think it should be and then he kind of

[00:15:42] You know loses the battle in

[00:15:44] A myriad of ways gets like this one move against

[00:15:46] Soda and then goes it's interesting to me how different

[00:15:48] That journey was what I expected where it was like

[00:15:50] All Venus based and she's like the main

[00:15:52] Character in that and he is basically

[00:15:54] Venus' foe like that's kind of like

[00:15:56] How he'll be remembered and I feel like he was probably

[00:15:58] A bigger character than that um

[00:16:00] He was like the king of Nami but I feel like we

[00:16:02] They didn't go to Tropic House we saw so little of that

[00:16:04] And that is like what I think that's

[00:16:06] That's how I explain the meta I think there's one

[00:16:08] Really big external reason and then there's like an

[00:16:10] Internal reason and the external reason for me

[00:16:12] And I hate to talk about the different days

[00:16:14] Of the new era and the old era but I think that time

[00:16:16] Pressure is important and it shows that if there's fewer

[00:16:18] Days it can create complexities that are actually

[00:16:20] More difficult for the players in some ways

[00:16:22] That to me is the difficulty

[00:16:24] When someone like Tevin he had a confessional

[00:16:26] When he was voting Soda out

[00:16:28] When he literally said it's getting towards

[00:16:30] The end of the game keep in mind this is the

[00:16:32] First tribal council where Tevin has been vulnerable

[00:16:34] This is basically the first tribal council

[00:16:36] The second vote and he's saying it's towards

[00:16:38] The end of the game and I need big moves from my

[00:16:40] Resume and that's the time pressure

[00:16:42] Of not just the new era and the shorter days

[00:16:44] And the kind of condensed rounds and we're getting

[00:16:46] To fire soon but also

[00:16:48] When tribes don't go to tribal council

[00:16:50] For so long Nami never does

[00:16:52] Seagate kept it together but they only did you know

[00:16:54] Very late Nami is such a big part of this

[00:16:56] They probably are sitting on their hands winning

[00:16:58] Challenges thinking when am I making my move

[00:17:00] Like when am I doing the thing we know that the

[00:17:02] Fractures fester but it's more than that it's about

[00:17:04] When am I going to get the credit for this and they don't feel

[00:17:06] Like they can have a placeholder vote

[00:17:08] That they have the time that can be really relevant

[00:17:10] A big reason that Tevin made the move against Soda

[00:17:12] He said was because Q wanted Venus gone

[00:17:14] And didn't want to make Q's move

[00:17:16] You know sometimes doing what your allies want can be good

[00:17:18] You know sometimes keeping your allies can be good

[00:17:20] But I think there's that like big external

[00:17:22] Pressure around maximizing every opportunity

[00:17:24] And not letting anyone go

[00:17:26] Because any opportunity go

[00:17:28] Because they're so infrequent

[00:17:30] And the rounds are so few

[00:17:32] So I think that's a big external thing and I definitely

[00:17:34] Think that sets the pattern I think someone like Kenzie

[00:17:36] Turning on Tiffany which we'll talk about

[00:17:38] To be so nonsensical but I think she's now feeding into that

[00:17:40] Meta that's been created and then the internal

[00:17:42] Thing I think is that this cast

[00:17:44] Is a little unhinged

[00:17:46] They're a little crazy like someone like Q

[00:17:48] Turning on Tiffany which we'll talk about

[00:17:50] That's Q is

[00:17:52] That's Q being Q

[00:17:54] Q is insane

[00:17:56] So it's like the combination of

[00:17:58] This intense cast that will not

[00:18:00] Step down for us

[00:18:02] It's all about big move do the thing

[00:18:04] As you're saying maybe sometimes in not the best or most

[00:18:06] Self-aware way

[00:18:08] Combined with the time pressure

[00:18:10] Like I think that's why it's manifested in this

[00:18:12] But it's also it's not like one or two

[00:18:14] People thinking these things like it's

[00:18:16] Infected the entire cast

[00:18:18] Because the exact same thing like when Kenzie

[00:18:20] Was targeting Tiff

[00:18:22] And Maria

[00:18:24] Like had the same thing she's like oh I want

[00:18:26] That to be my move when Tiff goes home

[00:18:28] So I'm not going to do it now because it's

[00:18:30] It's not going to look like it's my move

[00:18:32] It's going to look like it's Kenzie's move so I don't want to do it

[00:18:34] It's just that's the level that everyone is thinking

[00:18:36] At that who is going to get the

[00:18:38] Okay I'm even though this is within my best

[00:18:40] Interest I'm not going to do it now because it's going to look

[00:18:42] Like someone else's move and that

[00:18:44] Yeah going to create some crazy gameplay

[00:18:46] To Maria and Charlie's

[00:18:48] Credit they at least have not turned on each other

[00:18:50] Okay that's like the credit then and I will give them

[00:18:52] A lot of credit not yet Shannon not yet

[00:18:54] There's still next week like

[00:18:56] No I can't

[00:18:58] But I think that I think that you know

[00:19:00] And Stephen kind of said this on all doors like obviously

[00:19:02] The cast creates a culture of the season

[00:19:04] And that's the culture that's being

[00:19:06] Created but I think it's a culture of

[00:19:08] You know like hurry up and wait

[00:19:10] Like they will 18 a play

[00:19:12] And then they get on the beach and then all

[00:19:14] But six players do not go to tribal council

[00:19:16] Until the fifth boat

[00:19:18] You know like and that's five

[00:19:20] Of 13 episodes like we're getting more

[00:19:22] Than a third into the season

[00:19:24] And they haven't been able

[00:19:26] Like now they're thinking big game now they're thinking

[00:19:28] Where can I make my mark for a final

[00:19:30] I think that's the whole point of this

[00:19:32] Like I think it's like a

[00:19:34] A lot of people are thinking like

[00:19:36] What if I'm going to go to the tribal council for myself

[00:19:38] For that like sense of validation

[00:19:40] So I think that's been a really really

[00:19:42] Big thing of like how we've seen it manifest

[00:19:44] Here but you know we kind of mentioned

[00:19:46] Q and I want to before

[00:19:48] We kind of get into the strategy

[00:19:50] Of every tribe Q

[00:19:52] And some debate around this

[00:19:54] Well I tweeted him like he was like an all time

[00:19:56] Character and I got push back from George

[00:19:58] Is I put him

[00:20:00] With Mary Anne and Carolyn as

[00:20:02] The three new era characters for me who

[00:20:04] Transcend the medium and there are a lot

[00:20:06] Of great new era characters

[00:20:08] But I feel like it's a cut above

[00:20:10] For someone like Q who is so

[00:20:12] Entertaining that Wirtzenberger

[00:20:14] Said to me in LA

[00:20:16] That he felt like it's like everyone's just

[00:20:18] This was after the almost quit

[00:20:20] But like everyone's just orbiting

[00:20:22] Q like everyone's having to kind of react to

[00:20:24] This force of nature and I just

[00:20:26] Think he's so compelling

[00:20:28] He's so there's so many

[00:20:30] Layers but he's also so funny

[00:20:32] Like I feel like this is like a coach level

[00:20:34] I was going to say he's

[00:20:36] He feels like the new era coach

[00:20:38] And he does the thing is

[00:20:40] He does that thing that coach does as well is he

[00:20:42] Retroactively convinces himself of things

[00:20:44] Yeah like anything

[00:20:46] He's like well actually it's because of this and you can

[00:20:48] Tell it's just him convincing himself

[00:20:50] And he believes it that's the difference

[00:20:52] Between most people he 100% believes

[00:20:54] These fantasies that he puts in his head and he comes up with

[00:20:56] And I like he really does

[00:20:58] Give out coach vibes I just think that

[00:21:00] Interesting thing about Q is

[00:21:02] As well the way that he is so confident

[00:21:04] In how he can instantly

[00:21:06] Change his mind and his decisions

[00:21:08] It can be like I'm so

[00:21:10] In on this 6 this plus 1 alliance

[00:21:12] This journey dynamic and

[00:21:14] Then instantaneously

[00:21:16] No no no Tiff has said one thing

[00:21:18] She's out she's totally out Tim's done this

[00:21:20] No no no Tim's dead to me with such

[00:21:22] Passion Q did this Q's dead to me

[00:21:24] Wait don't I have you all but I'm still lying

[00:21:28] It's so wild

[00:21:30] But I just love having someone

[00:21:32] Like him in the season and

[00:21:34] He just makes he just elevates

[00:21:36] Everyone else around him because everyone else

[00:21:38] Has to play to that same level

[00:21:40] Everyone else has to buy into

[00:21:42] His insanity everyone else has to be

[00:21:44] Part of like you said that orbit around

[00:21:46] Him and deal with him

[00:21:48] And it's just so much fun to watch

[00:21:50] I've got my Q skirt on now

[00:21:52] In honor of this interview

[00:21:54] Yeah yeah yeah big time

[00:21:56] You don't need to carry anything for the

[00:21:58] Interview like you're sitting down but

[00:22:00] Yeah I mean that's the thing is like he has

[00:22:02] The gimmicks and then he has the catchphrases

[00:22:04] Like this man is a sitcom character

[00:22:06] I think maybe that's why we like it like he could be in The Simpsons

[00:22:08] Because like one of my favorite

[00:22:10] Things that I find so hilarious

[00:22:12] Was that like cancel Christmas

[00:22:14] Ended up being like a saying because he said

[00:22:16] At one time I think it was even the episode title

[00:22:18] Like okay well that's one thing that he said and then the next week

[00:22:20] He said it again and then he said it every week

[00:22:22] Okay this is a this is a this is a

[00:22:24] Saying I want to have

[00:22:26] That's unbelievable like he has

[00:22:28] Catchphrases he has merch ideas

[00:22:30] The big mistake thing

[00:22:32] The merch will come in yeah he's far

[00:22:34] More cartoon character than he is

[00:22:36] Human being which is incredible

[00:22:38] You know a good indication as well

[00:22:40] Is people it's and it's those people that come

[00:22:42] Up with like little

[00:22:44] Games little things to do in the group and

[00:22:46] Stuff like that and it's the way

[00:22:48] That he's like oh let's let's play the alphabet game

[00:22:50] Or let's go play hide and seek do these

[00:22:52] Things like that's the type of person he is

[00:22:54] He wants to do things create things do

[00:22:56] Fun like he's not one to just hang around

[00:22:58] And I tell you what and

[00:23:00] Look we might get into it but

[00:23:02] Right now him playing hide

[00:23:04] And seek and him like

[00:23:06] Delving into hide and seek and same

[00:23:08] With Venus like drilling down into

[00:23:10] Oh Hunter hides in a

[00:23:12] Tree and so I don't know Hunter's game because

[00:23:14] He's on a different level and he believes it

[00:23:16] Yeah and he 100% believes it

[00:23:18] But mark my words

[00:23:20] The era of like analogies

[00:23:22] In survivor is over it's all

[00:23:24] Going to be referencing

[00:23:26] Like kids kids games

[00:23:28] It'll be like the next thing you know

[00:23:30] It'll be oh yeah statues

[00:23:32] It's like we're playing I want to play statues so I know

[00:23:34] How someone works so I want to play

[00:23:36] I want to play tic tac toes like

[00:23:38] Red light green light

[00:23:40] All of this stuff like it's scarecrow

[00:23:42] Tiki I want to play scarecrow Tiki see who they go

[00:23:44] For see who they target everyone's going to be reading

[00:23:46] What's scarecrow Tiki? What's that?

[00:23:48] Do you play scarecrow Tiki?

[00:23:50] Oh Shannon

[00:23:52] I grew up here I'm not really Australian

[00:23:54] Although I came here in the third grade I should

[00:23:56] No I don't know Tiki either

[00:23:58] Tiki

[00:24:00] No still no

[00:24:02] I'm just going to keep saying it

[00:24:04] Tiki is like when you go up to someone

[00:24:06] Tag you put like tag

[00:24:08] Do you know tag? Oh tag

[00:24:10] Yes

[00:24:12] Who does Australian?

[00:24:14] Just me no

[00:24:16] People call it Tiki

[00:24:18] Australians do? Yeah yeah

[00:24:20] Mate we're going to get flooded with comments

[00:24:22] Scarecrow Tiki is like Tiki where you

[00:24:24] Tag someone and then instead of being

[00:24:26] It you have to stand there like a

[00:24:28] Scarecrow with your legs open and then to

[00:24:30] Unfreeze

[00:24:32] Yeah you run under their legs and it like unfreezes

[00:24:34] Them yeah it was scarecrow Tiki

[00:24:36] Like freeze tag

[00:24:38] Tigi? Tigi

[00:24:40] Tigi

[00:24:42] Tigi

[00:24:44] I could call out to Peter but I feel like

[00:24:46] He like sometimes people just be like eating

[00:24:48] His dinner and Peter you just

[00:24:50] Call it Tiki? Peter what's Tiki?

[00:24:52] This is not coming up for me

[00:24:54] Tiki game

[00:24:56] Tiki game? Yeah Tiki

[00:24:58] Tag and it comes up as tag

[00:25:00] It comes up as tag okay good

[00:25:02] But it clearly is a thing enough that they were like

[00:25:04] Did you mean

[00:25:06] Close enough

[00:25:08] So get ready for next season

[00:25:10] When they're going to play past the parcel

[00:25:12] And people are going to be like you see how he opened that

[00:25:14] Parcel? That means he can't be

[00:25:16] Trusted in our lines yeah

[00:25:18] Well that sounds incredibly

[00:25:20] Fun I mean that's the thing is like this has been elevating

[00:25:22] Challenges you know making challenges

[00:25:24] Fun that's always great that's been it's been

[00:25:26] Elevating camp life and I think the thing with Q as well

[00:25:28] Is that if

[00:25:30] He was like one of these types of characters

[00:25:32] It would be all of these

[00:25:34] Layers themselves could be compelling some of them would not

[00:25:36] Work but they'd be compelling like if he didn't have the

[00:25:38] Fun aspect and wasn't like really

[00:25:40] Funny coming up with like you know

[00:25:42] Bits and merchandise and sayings

[00:25:44] And you know all of that

[00:25:46] And then was just this like intense guy

[00:25:48] Who was like I'm targeting you for

[00:25:50] No reason that would still kind

[00:25:52] Of like all the year out of the season to

[00:25:54] Be kind of his season which is what it is

[00:25:56] It might be a little

[00:25:58] Heavy and the season is in ways a little heavy

[00:26:00] But then it has like the levity of the fun stuff so he

[00:26:02] Brings that layer if he was just doing

[00:26:04] The fun stuff and wasn't even this

[00:26:06] You know complex

[00:26:08] Strategic force which he has been until

[00:26:10] He lost it due to the complexity of the

[00:26:12] Quit thing then which

[00:26:14] In itself was so layered then

[00:26:16] That would be fun too it might be like a little

[00:26:18] Less meaningful might be more of like kind of what the Ben

[00:26:20] Character has been but it's still be really entertaining

[00:26:22] If he was just a guy doing

[00:26:24] You know let's play the alphabet game or

[00:26:26] You know just like the Q skirt but it's all

[00:26:28] Of that and that's what makes it work in a way that

[00:26:30] I think is really intense but also really fun

[00:26:32] And the layers of it is just

[00:26:34] Incredible to me the thing is

[00:26:36] Has there been a worse

[00:26:38] Alliance than the plus one

[00:26:40] Oh so bad my draft

[00:26:42] Team all put that together

[00:26:44] They have not voted together

[00:26:46] Once it is absolutely

[00:26:48] Not only that but they have

[00:26:50] Actively targeted everybody in their

[00:26:52] Own group yeah I tweeted this

[00:26:54] I said now it's starting to feel like joining the Six

[00:26:56] Was actually like signing your own death warrant it was like much

[00:26:58] Worse to join the Six like it had

[00:27:00] Like a little bit of legs in like

[00:27:02] Maybe just Murgatore and I thought I kind of thought like it would

[00:27:04] Help you in something like Murgatore it did help Hunter

[00:27:06] Not Jim but

[00:27:08] Hunter through that split tribal

[00:27:10] It helped Tevin and Maria to a degree

[00:27:12] It had something but the fact that

[00:27:14] Tribal lines

[00:27:16] You know went away pretty quickly and so

[00:27:18] Just the Six was like this

[00:27:20] Strategic center and

[00:27:22] That was meant to be like the anchor of the season

[00:27:24] And it was so hollow

[00:27:26] It was so hollow and it's never a good sign

[00:27:28] As well when people all don't have

[00:27:30] The same name for your Alliance

[00:27:32] Like people calling it the plus one

[00:27:34] Alliance other people calling it the journey

[00:27:36] Alliance and things like that that's yeah that

[00:27:38] Is that is just something that just triggers in your head

[00:27:40] To be like that's this is not a tight

[00:27:42] Alliance if everyone's calling it something different so you

[00:27:44] Watch out for that yeah did we ever see

[00:27:46] The Six all in like one place talking

[00:27:50] It's it's not so cool I love I love cross

[00:27:52] Tribal alliances by the way I wanted to I wanted

[00:27:54] To have my own cross tribal lines like coming

[00:27:56] Into merge and it like the people that I wanted in it obviously didn't work out

[00:28:02] But I was I was pumped for it I think cross

[00:28:04] Tribal alliances are so much fun ever since going

[00:28:06] Back to token chains like the exile

[00:28:08] Which also didn't work which didn't

[00:28:10] Work either but it was such a brilliant and I loved it

[00:28:12] It might be hard

[00:28:14] It might be a tough thing to

[00:28:16] Pull off but no yeah this Six has been

[00:28:18] Like an utter disappointment

[00:28:20] It's gone incredibly poorly for all

[00:28:22] All involved yeah

[00:28:24] But everyone's motivations everyone's

[00:28:26] Motivations were different in it because

[00:28:28] Thing is what happens is when you have those three

[00:28:30] And the original like

[00:28:32] The original concept behind it was like oh the

[00:28:34] Strong guys will protect each other

[00:28:36] But then what happens when you when you all bring in

[00:28:38] Someone else that isn't quote unquote

[00:28:40] The strong guys then they're not

[00:28:42] Incentivized or motivated to keep the other

[00:28:44] Strong guys so the full the whole principle

[00:28:46] Is flawed straight off the bat

[00:28:48] Because you've got to either bring in

[00:28:50] All the strong guys and everyone's protecting each other

[00:28:52] But when you bring in your tips and you're bringing

[00:28:54] These other people to the to the table

[00:28:56] That they're not also going oh this is good

[00:28:58] This person will protect me then

[00:29:00] Yeah the concept in itself just falls apart

[00:29:02] And I don't think Q was quite thinking

[00:29:04] That through logically all the way to

[00:29:06] It's a natural conclusion yeah I

[00:29:08] Do think that if the if

[00:29:10] The alliance it's about the bar that you said

[00:29:12] If the alliance had been said as like we're

[00:29:14] Going to protect each other and you'd be like

[00:29:16] That went pretty well like there was some protection

[00:29:18] Yeah like Hunter should not have survived

[00:29:20] That you know that's the tribal

[00:29:22] And without his idol and like I know it's gone

[00:29:24] Poorly since but it's been a month

[00:29:26] You know that I think that that connection

[00:29:28] With Q like that ended up being important

[00:29:30] Like in Murgatory

[00:29:32] You know someone like Maria and her connection to kind of

[00:29:34] Like Charlie like some of the big players looking out for each other

[00:29:36] Did make the you know kind

[00:29:38] Of smaller players on the bottom pretty expendable

[00:29:40] Although in saying that every single Murgatory

[00:29:42] Has been pretty conservative because

[00:29:44] It rewards that with twists coming up

[00:29:46] And with people so scared for the vulnerable

[00:29:48] Every single Murgatory is going to be

[00:29:50] Kind of like a compromise

[00:29:52] Which is what it ends up being but I do think that

[00:29:54] If we've been like hey we're going to give each other some protection

[00:29:56] And then we'll go our separate ways we'd be like great

[00:29:58] But because it was like meant to be the be all

[00:30:00] End all six like this is the alliance

[00:30:02] And it's defined everything

[00:30:04] Or meant to define everything like it's falling incredibly

[00:30:06] Short of that bar and now

[00:30:08] Many of the six have gone home

[00:30:10] In the time since they were invented

[00:30:12] When I have podcasted next so

[00:30:14] You can't say that it went well but

[00:30:16] I've enjoyed watching it

[00:30:18] Just break apart like a car just like

[00:30:20] The wheels coming off

[00:30:22] The doors falling off and now we're left with like

[00:30:24] Just queue behind the wheel of some sort of

[00:30:26] Car structure without walls

[00:30:28] They chose poorly

[00:30:30] I think yeah it was

[00:30:32] It was unfortunate and I think let's kind of

[00:30:34] Go through and talk about it in that kind of

[00:30:36] Chronological tribal implosions that I want to talk

[00:30:38] Through because I think

[00:30:40] The worse I want to start with them

[00:30:42] And it's going to get better but it starts off really bad

[00:30:44] Because Siga come in so

[00:30:46] Transparently

[00:30:48] Tribe strong in a way that all

[00:30:50] The other tribes are a disaster so they're already

[00:30:52] Jealous of that you know like why do you guys like

[00:30:54] Each other we all despise each other or

[00:30:56] Have voted everyone out and been a disaster

[00:30:58] Tribe so I think that was

[00:31:00] That was always an issue and we see like for Mariah

[00:31:02] To go first and for Tim to

[00:31:04] Go you know next on those two

[00:31:06] You know non jurors out of the last five

[00:31:08] Bits that you know in this time

[00:31:10] It seems very very clear that obviously

[00:31:12] They came in wanting to have their cake

[00:31:14] And eat it too wanting to be you know

[00:31:16] Really Siga strong but then also have people

[00:31:18] Want to work with Siga and it just didn't happen

[00:31:20] If anything it like forced the other tribes

[00:31:22] Specifically yeah

[00:31:24] To work against them

[00:31:26] And for Tim especially like he seemed to so

[00:31:28] Clearly have one foot out the door so it's

[00:31:30] No kind of surprise

[00:31:32] I think that they would suffer for that

[00:31:34] The funny thing is

[00:31:36] It was so obvious first of all

[00:31:38] First of all a couple of weird things one is

[00:31:40] In the six Tim

[00:31:42] Like Tim's meant to bring someone

[00:31:44] Into the six right so who does

[00:31:46] He choose to bring into the six it's Mariah

[00:31:48] Which is Mariah

[00:31:50] Which is wild because

[00:31:52] They don't even seem that close

[00:31:54] Like yeah he's so close with Ben

[00:31:56] He's so close with Ben yeah he didn't want to give up

[00:31:58] But he didn't want to give up Ben because he felt like

[00:32:00] He felt he was kind of what we said at the

[00:32:02] Time like he did feel like he was close with Mariah

[00:32:04] And he could bring her in and she would kind of work for that

[00:32:06] Without giving up Ben as his number one

[00:32:08] Because he felt like I don't know these people I've been competing

[00:32:10] Against these people I don't want to tell them

[00:32:12] Everything and the interesting thing about it

[00:32:14] Is had he committed

[00:32:16] To it now I don't know what they would have done

[00:32:18] At that split tribal but it might have somewhat

[00:32:20] Protected Ben who was then left out so Tim gets

[00:32:22] Put in a really hard spot but

[00:32:24] Then you know every vulnerable person at the

[00:32:26] Split tribal would have been in the six if he'd

[00:32:28] Included Ben but in leaving him

[00:32:30] Out and in and in not prioritizing

[00:32:32] It and in being against the

[00:32:34] Six that he's actually like he was in the six but in being so against it he was maybe

[00:32:38] Like the biggest victim of the six that this like bad alliance has been able to

[00:32:42] Kind of take that scalp and that's exactly what if

[00:32:44] You commit someone if this is such a golden rule if someone comes to you with something

[00:32:48] And you're you're in you've got to be all in

[00:32:50] If you have one foot out the door if you're wishy-washy

[00:32:52] And the way that Tim was talking to Q about it

[00:32:54] Where he just didn't want to commit

[00:32:56] He didn't want to say oh no what about this

[00:32:58] What he was just so so flowery

[00:33:02] And fluffy didn't want to lock anything in

[00:33:04] It was just so obvious that this was going to fall in in a heap if he had

[00:33:08] Just come in with like you know what this is my number one

[00:33:10] We're together me and Ben let's do this together

[00:33:12] And then you can see how the cards fall and everything like that

[00:33:16] But yeah 100% they played it really bad

[00:33:18] And then as well with Moe like telling her

[00:33:22] Or stay strong like come in come in you're one of us

[00:33:26] I know you were left at the last vote but come in come strong

[00:33:28] Moe should have seen the writing on the wall

[00:33:30] She needed to come in as a crack

[00:33:32] She needed to you know what I was left out

[00:33:34] And she waited to tribal council to say that

[00:33:36] No that needed to be done way earlier

[00:33:38] She needed to be the person that everyone wants to pick up

[00:33:42] Not this person that's out there that's sort of like the bottom of the barrel

[00:33:44] And they just played that so wrong

[00:33:46] Everything that they did in this sort of phase of the game

[00:33:50] Was almost the wrong thing to do

[00:33:52] They went out of their way to do the incorrect thing

[00:33:54] Every single time there was a decision to be made

[00:33:56] Yeah like they made them so actively want to be against Seagum

[00:33:59] My favourite moment was when they're like we need a name at the feast

[00:34:02] And they were like well Jem was the name

[00:34:04] They're like but not Jem because Jem's gone

[00:34:07] Jem's gone what?

[00:34:09] That's not a Seagun name

[00:34:11] We're willing to part with Jem

[00:34:13] We've thought long and hard about it

[00:34:15] And we think that's a Seagun name that we're going to give you at this feast

[00:34:17] Jem's not here man

[00:34:19] Yeah like that didn't do a lot for them

[00:34:21] It was so transparent

[00:34:25] It was interesting because Nami was so actually ready to get rid of Venus

[00:34:29] That it was like okay well if you need it then we don't need to do it

[00:34:31] If you're so happy for it that's fine by us

[00:34:33] We can keep that crack in the game

[00:34:35] With Seagun they protected so hard that they made themselves this threat

[00:34:38] In a compromise vote I think that everyone did well

[00:34:42] To still work with Seagun to take the name that they gave

[00:34:45] There was a lot of talk at the time obviously like take a stronger Seagun

[00:34:49] But these strong players were working with each other

[00:34:52] With the threat of the split tribe were coming up

[00:34:54] You want to kind of keep everyone happy as it is in all of the

[00:34:57] Mergatory votes so they actually ended up

[00:34:59] Everyone who was not Seagun ended up having their cake and eating it too

[00:35:02] That was the thing that happened because they got to

[00:35:05] Like actually go against this unified tribe but still

[00:35:08] In a way they kind of kept everything as cohesive as possible

[00:35:11] To have working relationships for whatever twists were coming

[00:35:14] But yeah that was not it for Seagun

[00:35:16] No and you see what happens in previous years

[00:35:18] Like the ticker three and stuff like that

[00:35:20] Like you have these small groups in between these two bigger tribes

[00:35:23] And you go okay well we have to court them

[00:35:25] We have to bring them on board

[00:35:27] And you know what happens?

[00:35:29] A three does not want to work with a strong five

[00:35:32] They just don't

[00:35:33] They want to work with a fractured five

[00:35:35] And that's exactly what Nami did

[00:35:38] Nami said yeah Venus is out the door

[00:35:40] Like Hunter specifically says it

[00:35:42] He says we are all over the place

[00:35:44] No one wants to work with anyone

[00:35:45] It's shambles out there

[00:35:47] And that is the group that you want to work with

[00:35:49] Because you can easily manipulate them

[00:35:50] You can easily do things

[00:35:51] And yeah Seagun just had the totally wrong read on the situation

[00:35:54] By saying we're five strong

[00:35:56] We're a good group

[00:35:57] Like come with us

[00:35:58] No of course three into five

[00:36:01] Yeah it's terrible

[00:36:03] It was such a good start for Yano

[00:36:05] Imagine a world in which Yano don't end up imploding

[00:36:07] But just imagine this

[00:36:08] Because really they do

[00:36:09] They take out a strong kind of cohesive group

[00:36:11] And they could have probably gone a bit further on that

[00:36:13] Like the biggest threats that have been left are

[00:36:15] I think Charlie and Maria which I want to talk through

[00:36:17] But they really cut into Seaguh

[00:36:19] And then Nami implode all on their own

[00:36:21] Which they were going to

[00:36:22] They were a ticking time bomb

[00:36:23] Like you don't need to

[00:36:24] It's kind of like the shoulder the load challenge

[00:36:26] Right?

[00:36:27] It's like do you want to get rid of Seaguh

[00:36:29] Don't have any weight on them

[00:36:30] So you've got to put all the weight on Seaguh

[00:36:32] Nami already have a lot of weight

[00:36:33] So you can just leave them alone

[00:36:34] And they're going to crack by themselves

[00:36:36] Which they do

[00:36:37] And so it worked really well for Yano

[00:36:39] Who again have not as yet lost a man bed

[00:36:42] Had they not self imploded

[00:36:44] Probably wouldn't for a while

[00:36:45] They'd be in a great spot

[00:36:46] That was self-inflicted

[00:36:47] But yeah I think it was an interesting spot for Tim

[00:36:50] Not to go back too much

[00:36:51] Because I know this was weeks ago

[00:36:53] But you know I do think it was

[00:36:55] It was an unfortunate group

[00:36:57] Because Ben is his number one ally

[00:36:59] He's not in the sixth

[00:37:00] I kind of feel like he does have to fight for Ben

[00:37:02] Like losing Ben does not rock

[00:37:04] But it was a hard spot

[00:37:06] Ben had been left out of the sixth

[00:37:08] He had no again no pull at that point

[00:37:11] Because Tim had been on the fence

[00:37:12] And I also think Tim didn't realize his lack of power at that point

[00:37:16] Like he thinks that he has more of a pull with Q

[00:37:19] And with Yano to go against Hunter

[00:37:21] If he'd known where he sat

[00:37:22] It might have been like

[00:37:23] I have to sacrifice Ben right now

[00:37:24] I'm so glad I couldn't get through this

[00:37:26] Because losing Ben is a second worst scenario here

[00:37:29] But me going home is the worst

[00:37:30] And he didn't understand his leverage at that point

[00:37:32] So I think that was like kind of the bigness

[00:37:34] But it was an unfortunate group

[00:37:35] Because it was literally

[00:37:36] Everyone you've made an alliance with

[00:37:37] Kenzie who's immune and Ben who's number one ally

[00:37:41] So that was unfortunate

[00:37:43] Yeah and that's why

[00:37:45] I don't know the split up

[00:37:47] I'm not a big fan of the split

[00:37:49] Like I'm just

[00:37:51] I know it creates the like six and six

[00:37:55] And they're really interesting

[00:37:56] I love the number six

[00:37:57] They'd love it

[00:37:58] Jeff Hope knew the bet where he was like

[00:37:59] Put them into sixth

[00:38:01] It's the three two one

[00:38:02] They want the three two one vote happening every time

[00:38:04] They want the four to split on the two

[00:38:06] And then someone flip

[00:38:07] And then it just opens up all this population

[00:38:09] Is that why?

[00:38:10] There's definitely what a three two one is

[00:38:13] Well, Pugonging

[00:38:14] But I don't think like all of this is in place

[00:38:16] Historically to stop Pugongings

[00:38:18] Like that's what everything is

[00:38:20] That's what the hidden immunity idol is

[00:38:22] That's what everything was originally created to do

[00:38:24] Three tribes

[00:38:25] Like that's exactly what it was

[00:38:26] The three tribe concept

[00:38:28] And yeah, when swaps to do as well

[00:38:30] But I'll tell you right now, Jeff

[00:38:32] People aren't Pugonging each other anymore

[00:38:34] Like those days are gone

[00:38:36] People understand when they're at the bottom

[00:38:38] Especially with these groups of players that they're putting on nowadays

[00:38:40] People know when they're at the bottom

[00:38:42] People know when they're getting no leverage

[00:38:44] You hear people talking about

[00:38:45] I've got nothing in my resume yet

[00:38:46] And I need to do something

[00:38:47] Someone else is getting all the credit

[00:38:48] Like people understand that

[00:38:49] And are going to make moves

[00:38:51] To try and counterbalance that

[00:38:52] We don't need things like this anymore

[00:38:54] That's just my opinion

[00:38:56] I just think

[00:38:57] The players have evolved past that

[00:38:59] Concept of just Pugonging each other

[00:39:01] Yeah, I mean both of these tribal councils were interesting

[00:39:03] But I do think that

[00:39:05] Also the next two

[00:39:06] I think that if they'd all been in a group

[00:39:08] That would have been interesting too

[00:39:10] We would have seen how the six could have imploded

[00:39:12] In a different way

[00:39:14] And that would have been Nami

[00:39:16] And the six competing to implode at different levels

[00:39:18] So yeah, I mean

[00:39:20] It's always frustrating to go from

[00:39:22] It always feels constricted

[00:39:24] But I think this cast has been able to

[00:39:26] Go from Oogtree into the split

[00:39:28] But the cast has been able to make the most of it

[00:39:30] Because they are unhinged

[00:39:32] So I thought that this was a really good episode

[00:39:34] But yeah, a lot of interesting stuff there

[00:39:36] But it does manifest into

[00:39:38] Charlie and Maria

[00:39:40] And I'd love to talk through the pair

[00:39:42] That I would say have played this

[00:39:44] Merge the best for me

[00:39:46] Especially Charlie who I think has

[00:39:48] Required even more survival

[00:39:50] Like Maria was immune

[00:39:52] That's the tribal obviously for Charlie

[00:39:54] On the face of it looked dire

[00:39:56] But then you remember that he was with Nami

[00:39:58] And Nami again

[00:40:00] Just hated each other so much

[00:40:02] And now he's completely out of the game at this point

[00:40:04] And it's been like two weeks

[00:40:06] But yeah, they're always in like swing spots

[00:40:08] They're always in swing adjacent spots

[00:40:10] They have known

[00:40:12] Every plan

[00:40:14] That has been relevant enough for us to know

[00:40:16] As the audience because there might be plans

[00:40:18] That we never see but like

[00:40:20] Is there any plan you can think of that they have not been

[00:40:22] Not just in on but like we really need to pull these votes

[00:40:24] And you know what's interesting is

[00:40:26] They both cover different parts of the tribes

[00:40:28] As well, like if either one

[00:40:30] Of them get information from a different source

[00:40:32] They sort of come together and

[00:40:34] They're in such a perfect position

[00:40:36] And you hear people talk about it all the time

[00:40:38] Like when the people talk about Charlie they talk about

[00:40:40] We just really like him, he's just a nice

[00:40:42] Guy like it's

[00:40:44] And I think that is overlooked so often

[00:40:46] The fact that if you're just nice

[00:40:48] And people like you that they're going to want to keep you around

[00:40:50] A bit longer and at this sort of

[00:40:52] Stage of the game as well and it's it keeps

[00:40:54] Happening again and again and they

[00:40:56] Know when they know and

[00:40:58] Look they haven't always pivoted when they've needed to pivot

[00:41:00] A lot of the time they just have stuck with the plan

[00:41:02] And they haven't really like

[00:41:04] Flipped on anyone else but they haven't had to

[00:41:06] Because everyone else is blowing themselves up

[00:41:08] And I think to the point that

[00:41:10] Yeah they could lose Ben and

[00:41:12] Still be a really good power position

[00:41:14] And is everyone really seeing them

[00:41:16] As like the twosome

[00:41:18] As well? I think

[00:41:20] That there's must be some innate

[00:41:22] Knowledge

[00:41:24] Of their power, something that was

[00:41:26] Interesting to me was like when Hunter

[00:41:28] That's the challenge prize you want to be with

[00:41:30] If you're going to be in a challenge team, he's like I'll go with

[00:41:32] Charlie and Maria, I'm like he knows that they

[00:41:34] Make the decisions, he knows that they're powerful

[00:41:36] So but you know

[00:41:38] Without one of them leading the charge against the other

[00:41:40] It feels like they're going to be okay because the call is very

[00:41:42] Much coming from inside the house on all the blind sides

[00:41:44] So as long as they can not be instigating

[00:41:46] That, that's already one big threat that's taken out

[00:41:48] Everyone else will be focusing more on their

[00:41:50] Closer allies so firstly in terms

[00:41:52] Of not making the mistakes

[00:41:54] Like the unprompted mistakes

[00:41:56] Unforced errors, you know

[00:41:58] You've got to credit Charlie and Maria there but

[00:42:00] Yeah I um

[00:42:02] Tiff brought up Maria though, Tiff did bring up Maria

[00:42:04] And look at how that went for Tiffany

[00:42:06] Like

[00:42:08] Which was in itself

[00:42:10] Completely insane, but even

[00:42:12] The Hunter said in his exit that like

[00:42:14] Tiffany bringing up Maria was like so casual

[00:42:16] In passing, yeah

[00:42:18] And then Q blew it up into something

[00:42:20] Like it wasn't Maria

[00:42:22] Maria who we met four days ago

[00:42:24] That Maria who's in the Six

[00:42:26] Slash the Journey Alliance slash the Plus One Alliance

[00:42:28] Whatever we're calling it, Maria who Tim

[00:42:30] Brought into the Plus One Alliance but Tim is out

[00:42:32] You immediately

[00:42:34] Parachuted out of the alliance after he dropped her in it

[00:42:36] You never do that to Tim

[00:42:38] Like you voted Tim out last night

[00:42:40] Okay but still

[00:42:42] So Maria, the interesting thing with Maria

[00:42:44] As well which I thought was really good and

[00:42:46] Goes to

[00:42:48] Say what a good player she is

[00:42:50] That came out, that Tiff put that out there

[00:42:52] Yes it could have just been in passing

[00:42:54] But in that episode

[00:42:56] She didn't go into revenge mode to be like

[00:42:58] I can't believe someone's putting my name out there, we've got to change this

[00:43:00] And Tiff has said this and Q's doing this

[00:43:02] No, she ended up

[00:43:04] Sticking to the plan, she kept her head

[00:43:06] They knew what they wanted to do and they executed it

[00:43:08] And I think that's a really good sign of a good player

[00:43:10] That knows even if there's all this other noise

[00:43:12] And even if your name's coming out, people are saying this

[00:43:14] Thing that you can put that out of your head and go

[00:43:16] Yep, I can still work with Tiff now

[00:43:18] So that's fine, let's move forward

[00:43:20] Let's continue as a group and I thought that was really interesting

[00:43:22] And I think her and Charles are in a really good spot

[00:43:24] It just depends whether they're going to turn on each other

[00:43:26] Because that's the nature of

[00:43:28] Something's in the well water where people want to turn on each other

[00:43:30] It's going to happen

[00:43:32] Yeah, that's how they're getting

[00:43:34] Through the Pagongings now, making sure there aren't any Pagongings

[00:43:36] Used to be swabs

[00:43:38] Three tribes, all that, but it's not enough, we actually have to drug them now

[00:43:40] To make sure they show up on their number one allies

[00:43:51] What does that mean? Nothing extra, just perfection and a straw

[00:43:55] Coming in hot for the coldest cups on the block

[00:43:59] Because there are drinks

[00:44:01] Then there are drinks from McDonald's

[00:44:03] Ever combine an ice cold frozen coke with piping hot fries?

[00:44:07] Try frozen drinks any size for $1.49

[00:44:11] Prices and participation may vary, cannot be combined with any other offer

[00:44:15] Ba da ba ba ba

[00:44:17] Interesting you say that about Maria

[00:44:19] I think that's the one thing I've probably disagreed with

[00:44:23] Like if I go through all the decisions

[00:44:25] I've been high on all

[00:44:27] Like Charlie throwing the vote at Murgatory

[00:44:29] The Venus was, you know, like

[00:44:31] Even on social media Venus was like why?

[00:44:33] I'm like, you know, I would have thought

[00:44:35] With Mariah as a unanimous vote

[00:44:37] If Venus is aware of the fact that

[00:44:39] They're all unanimously going on Mariah

[00:44:41] And then Mariah Claire Shaw in the dark

[00:44:43] Like she should throw a vote on Charlie to make sure that it doesn't go to a 0-0 re-vote

[00:44:45] She gets like J-Miles, like, Mariah, Mariah

[00:44:47] And if Charlie knows that like he should definitely throw a vote on Venus

[00:44:49] So that the one-to-one he doesn't go home

[00:44:51] So I like that

[00:44:53] Then the soda vote

[00:44:55] Made a ton of sense, you know

[00:44:57] I often say like, oh, you shouldn't split the majority on their terms

[00:44:59] If you do what they don't want

[00:45:01] But what if what they want is to completely cannibalize themselves

[00:45:03] Maybe you help them

[00:45:05] Then that's fine

[00:45:07] Yeah, and also they're not a majority

[00:45:09] Like they were a majority here in this split

[00:45:11] But like coming back they're not super powerful

[00:45:13] And yeah, sometimes people like people are making such bad moves

[00:45:15] That actually splitting it on their

[00:45:17] When their terms are so bad

[00:45:19] That's the exception, like yeah, help them with those terms

[00:45:21] Like that's they're gonna split themselves more than you ever could

[00:45:23] And you can still work with them in it

[00:45:25] It's great

[00:45:27] And you don't need the quote-unquote credit for coming up with it

[00:45:29] If they're destroying themselves

[00:45:31] Yeah, because none of them are going to be there to compete with the credit at the final three

[00:45:33] Exactly, exactly

[00:45:35] So they can

[00:45:37] Yeah, so that was great

[00:45:39] But then, so then Tevin over Tiffany

[00:45:41] Thought this was really interesting because I thought for Mariah especially

[00:45:43] There's a couple of things, yeah, as a target I thought Tiffany was a much better target for Mariah

[00:45:47] In the numbers of this, to be fair

[00:45:49] And it was Liz's move and we'll talk about Liz

[00:45:51] But they don't have

[00:45:53] Like their swing

[00:45:55] Votes kind of

[00:45:57] But actually Liz was voting for Tevin

[00:45:59] Like there's a five of ten anyway

[00:46:01] Like they're only piling on six of seven

[00:46:03] So they're not like fully

[00:46:05] Also true with Soda, like if Tevin was gonna not throw his vote

[00:46:07] Then there's three votes against Soda

[00:46:09] Regardless

[00:46:11] Because they're always in the, you know, always like their pool could be important

[00:46:13] They might be able to pull over some other votes

[00:46:15] But for Maria versus Tevin

[00:46:17] I thought

[00:46:19] Well for Maria

[00:46:21] Versus

[00:46:23] For Tevin versus Tiffany for Maria

[00:46:25] Time off from the podcast

[00:46:27] For that

[00:46:29] I really felt like

[00:46:31] You know, Tiffany had been throwing out

[00:46:33] Maria's name

[00:46:35] So that's clear

[00:46:37] And Tevin was apparently closer to Maria than we had even seen

[00:46:39] From the journey

[00:46:41] Originally

[00:46:43] I mean he felt he was

[00:46:45] So that's the kind of loyalty you're losing

[00:46:47] Compared to Tiffany who is at least

[00:46:49] Casually saying your name

[00:46:51] As a target I did feel like Tiffany was a much better

[00:46:53] Vote for Maria especially

[00:46:55] But what I did like about this

[00:46:57] Was

[00:46:59] What group are you empowering? And Charlie does kind of refer

[00:47:01] To it, he refers to kind of like the Tevin

[00:47:03] Tiffany threat level

[00:47:05] And he's like Tevin's a big threat

[00:47:07] We knew it

[00:47:09] We were the only ones to know at the time that she had an idol

[00:47:11] But I still think Tiffany is

[00:47:13] A very powerful threat

[00:47:15] I think she and Tevin both big threats

[00:47:17] So for me it's more like

[00:47:19] Again that workability

[00:47:21] But I do think what was so interesting here and why I like the move from them

[00:47:23] Especially from Charlie

[00:47:25] Who isn't losing as much from a target perspective

[00:47:27] Is what group are you empowering?

[00:47:29] Are you empowering the six?

[00:47:31] Ironically as they go against someone in the six

[00:47:33] Well we know that the six is MO

[00:47:35] Are you empowering the hunters? Tevin? Q?

[00:47:37] The power players at the top of the six to play their game

[00:47:39] Which would have been the Tiffany vote

[00:47:41] Or are you going with an anti-six game

[00:47:43] Which became this kind of like group of others

[00:47:45] Which was kind of everyone will talk through

[00:47:47] But like you're emboldening Liz

[00:47:49] But Liz isn't even in the next vote

[00:47:51] That's like a fine person to give power to

[00:47:53] And I think it pushes Charlie and Maria

[00:47:55] To a point where they've been in the middle

[00:47:57] They've been swing votes and by the time we get to this hunter vote

[00:47:59] They're the instigators

[00:48:01] They've emboldened a lesser group

[00:48:03] And they've pulled themselves to the front

[00:48:05] Rather than pushing through

[00:48:07] You keep giving someone like Q power, Hunter, Tevin

[00:48:09] I think you're going to keep being at the bottom of that

[00:48:11] And it's going to take a big Q

[00:48:13] Instead they, yeah, to kind of give power to even like the Benz

[00:48:15] Liz even like Venus is part of that

[00:48:17] They're never going to kind of catapult you in power

[00:48:19] And actually now there's something of a vacuum

[00:48:21] That I think they've kind of taken that space

[00:48:23] So from a group and a structure perspective

[00:48:25] I actually did like it

[00:48:27] And that might have been even enough

[00:48:29] To make the target

[00:48:31] Enough for Maria, for Charlie it's great

[00:48:33] So I thought that was an interesting

[00:48:35] Structural vote for the two of them

[00:48:37] Yeah, I completely agree

[00:48:39] And you know what's really interesting is

[00:48:41] That yes, Liz gets the credit

[00:48:43] For the Tevin vote

[00:48:45] And then instantly she's

[00:48:47] Out of the next vote

[00:48:49] She's got no

[00:48:51] No weight or anything like that

[00:48:53] And she's the only one that ends up voting for Q in the

[00:48:55] Second round of voting

[00:48:57] And it is surprising that they've

[00:48:59] Used her so well

[00:49:01] But I think it's actually good for Liz

[00:49:03] Because I think Liz now has freed up

[00:49:05] In a strange way

[00:49:07] It's actually lowered her threat level

[00:49:09] Getting rid of Tevin, I know it's a big move

[00:49:11] And she's got that on her resume

[00:49:13] But at the same time

[00:49:15] I think she becomes this free agent

[00:49:17] She's not tied to Venus or anything like that

[00:49:19] And it gives her the ability

[00:49:21] To jump in bed with anyone

[00:49:23] Left, like I see Liz

[00:49:25] I don't see anyone really targeting Liz

[00:49:27] I think there's going to be

[00:49:29] Yes, Tiff and her idol

[00:49:31] There's going to be all eyes on that

[00:49:33] I think there's going to be a lot of talk

[00:49:35] About how they're going to

[00:49:37] Actually break up these

[00:49:39] Purple

[00:49:41] Purple pirates

[00:49:43] I think Q is going to be a big target as well

[00:49:45] So I think it's actually put Liz in a pretty good position

[00:49:47] Because surely everyone's going to come for Charlie soon

[00:49:49] Like

[00:49:51] Yeah

[00:49:53] Charlie

[00:49:55] Charlie, I mean for Liz

[00:49:57] Sometimes it's insulting when no one wants to come for you

[00:49:59] It's like why

[00:50:01] Am I not big enough

[00:50:03] For you to scare to take me out

[00:50:05] And I do think that is Liz's problem

[00:50:07] She knows that's a perception problem

[00:50:09] But that has given her the room to make the move

[00:50:11] Which we can talk about from Liz's perspective

[00:50:13] Because she can kind of afford to take big swings

[00:50:15] Because she's going to float

[00:50:17] And no one is really looking at her

[00:50:19] The same way that Tevin made the move

[00:50:21] And then they were looking at him

[00:50:23] Give her the credit

[00:50:25] Give her some power

[00:50:27] It's clearly pretty much no power at all

[00:50:29] And then it's like who takes over

[00:50:31] They did

[00:50:33] So I thought that was really good

[00:50:35] And then we've got Venus as well

[00:50:37] Yes, well Venus

[00:50:39] She's not really even a floater

[00:50:41] I mean I want to talk about it

[00:50:43] From Venus's perspective

[00:50:45] It is such an interesting

[00:50:47] Like an interesting

[00:50:49] Breakdown because when you look at

[00:50:51] The thing I love about Venus is she's

[00:50:53] She's old school survivor

[00:50:55] Casting like she's someone

[00:50:57] That

[00:50:59] You put her out there and she ends up getting in fights

[00:51:01] With everyone

[00:51:03] No one likes her but it's that same

[00:51:05] It's the opposite of a game bot

[00:51:07] Where someone votes

[00:51:09] There's a vote on her it pisses her off so now she's going to come for you

[00:51:11] It's got nothing to do with whether it's strategically good

[00:51:13] For her game or not

[00:51:15] It's just like you've pissed me off

[00:51:17] I'm going to come at you

[00:51:19] I think that's maybe what casting hasn't been doing

[00:51:21] In the new era

[00:51:23] Having these people like this that are going to be reactionary

[00:51:25] To votes being against them

[00:51:27] And be passionate and be angry

[00:51:29] I love that aspect of her

[00:51:31] And I think it's so fun

[00:51:33] Watching when people do things

[00:51:35] That are not in their best interest

[00:51:37] And I know that's what the majority of Titans vs Rebels

[00:51:39] Ended up being

[00:51:41] People doing things not within their best interest

[00:51:43] And I think here we're seeing some of the players do the same thing now

[00:51:45] It's very, very fun

[00:51:47] I think that a lack of awareness in some sense

[00:51:51] Can be why people fall over their own feet

[00:51:53] So you want to

[00:51:55] Look, was Coach self-aware?

[00:51:57] Great TV

[00:51:59] Is Q being self-aware on these things?

[00:52:01] Does he convince himself different parts of his game?

[00:52:03] Probably not

[00:52:05] And I think for Venus

[00:52:07] A lot with Venus in this last month

[00:52:09] It was hard going back and watching the four episodes

[00:52:11] And it starts at Murgatory

[00:52:13] She's like I'm so excited to have new people

[00:52:15] Immediately

[00:52:17] She's been so ostracized

[00:52:19] The last time I podcasted it was just Nami

[00:52:21] And now it's been

[00:52:23] No one even wanted to pick Venus up

[00:52:25] They've been so against her

[00:52:27] And I do feel for her as someone who has been also universally

[00:52:29] Detested by my own reality TV cast

[00:52:31] In a structure that didn't even necessitate

[00:52:33] Social separation in both

[00:52:35] They just hated me

[00:52:37] And it's tough

[00:52:39] I feel like she's very isolated

[00:52:41] It's very collective against her

[00:52:43] It's clearly been hard for her

[00:52:45] To watch back based on social media

[00:52:47] It's real and it's tough

[00:52:49] It's compelling

[00:52:51] But it's very real in some ways

[00:52:53] It feels like should I be

[00:52:55] Is this entertaining to me or is this just like

[00:52:57] This is a young girl, it's painful

[00:52:59] So I feel really bad

[00:53:01] And I'm sure that as well

[00:53:03] The culture of that

[00:53:05] Begets more of it

[00:53:07] If that makes sense

[00:53:09] Something she could probably wear

[00:53:41] And getting frustrated when you are not

[00:53:43] And that frustration coming through

[00:53:45] In how you're having conversations

[00:53:47] And it is so hard

[00:53:49] When you want something to happen

[00:53:51] Or to go in a certain direction

[00:53:53] And you're like guys, come on

[00:53:55] I think Mackenzie is a really good

[00:53:57] She does this really well

[00:53:59] Mackenzie does

[00:54:01] She just talks to people and gets on with them

[00:54:03] And it's not about strategy

[00:54:05] She had the whole connection with Ben

[00:54:07] When he had his night terror, panic attack thing

[00:54:09] And I know Hunter was talking about

[00:54:11] The same thing in his exit press as well

[00:54:13] Where he had all these moments with her

[00:54:15] Where they weren't about the game

[00:54:17] It was like they were off picking flowers

[00:54:19] Or he was off showing her stuff and things like that

[00:54:21] And that's how you connect with people

[00:54:23] And that's how you get people to want to do moves with you

[00:54:25] And talk strategy with you

[00:54:27] And Venus just doesn't have that understanding

[00:54:29] It's just go, go, go

[00:54:31] This is what I need and I need it done now

[00:54:33] And it's not happening and getting frustrated about it

[00:54:35] That is true

[00:54:37] That's what a lot of people, I think that's the sense we're getting

[00:54:39] It's like she only wants to talk game

[00:54:41] I feel like there wasn't that kind of established relationship

[00:54:43] And again

[00:54:45] If they're not vibing her, it's really hard to establish the relationship

[00:54:47] It's not a natural thing

[00:54:49] And she wasn't pushing forward

[00:54:51] Which is a really difficult way to create the relationship anyway

[00:54:53] And we kind of saw even in Murgatory

[00:54:55] She was having unfortunate conversations

[00:54:57] Where it was with Mariah and Tim

[00:54:59] These people are in very different places

[00:55:01] And she's not getting a lot from them

[00:55:03] They wouldn't even give a lot in front of each other

[00:55:05] She was pushing it

[00:55:07] So there's a couple of things from her

[00:55:09] I think just the other thing is

[00:55:11] In a shorter game as well

[00:55:13] You don't have the luxury

[00:55:15] Of time to have those

[00:55:17] You can't chat though

[00:55:19] It's not an LRG

[00:55:21] They can still have all the things in mind

[00:55:23] But I think there is always

[00:55:25] And it doesn't matter who you are

[00:55:27] It doesn't matter if you go, I don't get on with these people

[00:55:29] You can always find something

[00:55:31] To connect with someone on

[00:55:33] If you just ask enough questions

[00:55:35] And you delve deep enough

[00:55:37] There will be something there that you have in common with someone

[00:55:39] And you can drill down on

[00:55:41] But it's just about getting to that point

[00:55:43] And finding that thing

[00:55:45] If it's like how you grew up in your childhood

[00:55:47] Even if it's something like

[00:55:49] What sort of films you are

[00:55:51] Like what do you enjoy doing

[00:55:53] There is always something there

[00:55:55] And if you can't find that

[00:55:57] You can cultivate something

[00:55:59] That you connect with

[00:56:01] This is the move I want to do

[00:56:03] Are you guys in or out?

[00:56:05] You're out, fine, we're not working together

[00:56:07] It's so black and white

[00:56:09] But I know when I was out there

[00:56:11] You just get to know people

[00:56:13] And you can find that connective issue

[00:56:15] And it will do so much for your strategic game

[00:56:17] If you make those connections

[00:56:19] I think her issue

[00:56:21] Strategically

[00:56:23] Definitely not having those connections

[00:56:25] It might be just like

[00:56:27] Again, it's impossible

[00:56:29] I've said this even in the pre-merge

[00:56:31] Now it's on a macro level

[00:56:33] It's with everyone

[00:56:35] But it's really hard to quantify who's at fault

[00:56:37] When something as subjective as a relationship

[00:56:39] Multiple relationships aren't working out

[00:56:41] It might be

[00:56:43] It's like there's three sides to every story

[00:56:45] It might not be that she was one thing

[00:56:47] And everyone else was one thing

[00:56:49] It might just be those relationships didn't work

[00:56:51] It's more on the relationship than each individual person

[00:56:53] And again, each of those individual relationships

[00:56:55] Might be different as well

[00:56:57] I think she's the one who's more important

[00:56:59] To wear

[00:57:01] She has come at them in ways that they aren't appreciating

[00:57:03] Even seeing Murgatory

[00:57:05] She calls the winners the kings of the castle

[00:57:07] I know there's editing

[00:57:09] But they seem to not enjoy

[00:57:11] Something wasn't translating

[00:57:13] They right back have not had

[00:57:15] I think a lot of grace for her isolating it

[00:57:17] It must have been

[00:57:19] That's from a relationship standpoint

[00:57:21] And then I think from a game standpoint

[00:57:23] Of how she's operating and approaching people

[00:57:25] And then she's calling it Owen and Jake

[00:57:27] Which by the way

[00:57:29] She's going to day 26 and getting zero votes

[00:57:31] There's no doubt

[00:57:33] Now that she made it past this part of the game

[00:57:35] I think this has been said at large

[00:57:37] She's made it through the tough time

[00:57:39] Where the compromise votes were

[00:57:41] Tricky in a split tribal Murgatory

[00:57:43] Definitely once she's made it through that

[00:57:45] She will be there on day 26 unless something goes badly awry

[00:57:47] And she will not get one vote

[00:57:49] So a lot of people who have been

[00:57:51] Kind of destined for that

[00:57:53] Agenceless game

[00:57:55] Owen and Jake have known it

[00:57:57] And have taken swings and have cried about it

[00:57:59] Knowing like oh my god how this happened

[00:58:01] But Venus doesn't have that

[00:58:03] And I think that also doesn't help the approach

[00:58:05] She will go to people and be like

[00:58:07] Even she says in confessional I want to play hard

[00:58:09] And make big moves, it's like Venus, it's not going to happen

[00:58:11] Because again if social capital is

[00:58:13] The money you spend on moves you are so far in debt

[00:58:15] She has not had a cent since she started the game

[00:58:17] So she's never going to have that money to spend on moves

[00:58:19] And she's never going to have

[00:58:21] The agency enough to like

[00:58:23] Have the kind of power that she so

[00:58:25] Wants in a way that's objective

[00:58:27] Not how she's seeing it

[00:58:29] And she goes to people like she has leverage

[00:58:31] But she doesn't, beyond her own vote she's not pulling people

[00:58:33] And I think that's like the myth

[00:58:35] And people come, she comes to Maria and it's a different

[00:58:37] Sense of leverage

[00:58:39] So she thinks they're having like a pretty equal

[00:58:41] Conversation around what they can bring to the table

[00:58:43] And that's simply not true

[00:58:45] And it's not something that Maria is going to vibe with

[00:58:47] And I know that from both of them there was a sense of like

[00:58:49] Age as an example, like you're coming at me and you're younger than me

[00:58:51] True, but also you're coming at me and you have

[00:58:53] Nothing really to offer other than your vote

[00:58:55] Which I don't even need, that's how much power I'm wielding

[00:58:57] And she saw it as different, she saw Seeker as on the bottom

[00:58:59] So that lack of

[00:59:01] Self awareness I think has been really tough

[00:59:03] From a game awareness perspective

[00:59:05] I think there are flashes there

[00:59:07] But I think they're removed from context

[00:59:09] Like don't we all want to take out Charlie

[00:59:11] No because these other big game players

[00:59:13] Are doing this other thing where they're trying to

[00:59:15] Work with the Seeker power and I think that made a lot of sense

[00:59:17] It makes sense for you

[00:59:19] But from a game perspective it doesn't

[00:59:21] Why need to keep women strong?

[00:59:23] But almost all of the women are intrinsically connected to one

[00:59:25] Or two men

[00:59:27] It doesn't work for her but not

[00:59:29] At last

[00:59:31] When she said oh we've got to throw a boys name

[00:59:33] It's got to be a boy next

[00:59:35] Because like

[00:59:37] It's just such bottom level strategy

[00:59:39] That it just hurts

[00:59:41] And it shows you a complete

[00:59:43] Lack of the social dynamics

[00:59:45] I think that's what it comes down to is understanding social dynamics

[00:59:47] The dynamics yes

[00:59:49] And knowing

[00:59:51] When you're going to throw out someone

[00:59:53] And then you're talking to like their

[00:59:55] Number one saying like oh yeah we should get rid of this person

[00:59:57] You like that right?

[00:59:59] That's so interesting that you say that because

[01:00:01] I got a comment of this and it was a week ago

[01:00:03] I'm sorry I was in New York but I saw it

[01:00:05] And I had the exact same thought

[01:00:07] I think my brother said it too

[01:00:09] Venus at the Soda vote

[01:00:11] Did that not remind you of Jess

[01:00:13] In the Frankie vote?

[01:00:15] Correct yes 100%

[01:00:17] That's where I was coming from

[01:00:19] That's exactly what it was

[01:00:21] It was wild

[01:00:23] So the other thing that I find about this situation is

[01:00:25] This is what kills me and this is what I tried to get through in my season as well

[01:00:27] These players

[01:00:29] These zero vote finalists

[01:00:31] That we're looking at

[01:00:33] They end up

[01:00:35] They end up taking your spot

[01:00:37] Everyone wants to keep them in the game

[01:00:39] And they go oh yeah let's keep Venus in the game

[01:00:41] Because I'll be able to beat Venus in the end

[01:00:43] So people that are in that middle ground

[01:00:45] As long as Venus is still in the game

[01:00:47] I'll be able to beat someone at the end

[01:00:49] But what they're not realising is

[01:00:51] Everyone is thinking that and as a result

[01:00:53] You are now below

[01:00:55] Venus in the pecking order

[01:00:57] Because you will be the next person because they want to keep Venus

[01:00:59] So what you want to do is

[01:01:01] You want to get rid of all those people

[01:01:03] So you are the person

[01:01:05] That people end up taking

[01:01:07] Yeah go killing

[01:01:09] Go killing was

[01:01:11] The way forward

[01:01:13] Something that I wanted to really try

[01:01:15] I just didn't get far enough to really do it

[01:01:17] But it gets to that point and I'm trying to explain to people

[01:01:19] Out there saying these people will

[01:01:21] Take your spot in the final three

[01:01:23] They will be there instead of you if you keep them around

[01:01:25] And I think this is also the thing that

[01:01:27] Leads to bitter juries as well

[01:01:29] Because people get on the jury and they go oh

[01:01:31] I can't believe that person and I'm like mate

[01:01:33] You were keeping them in the game as well

[01:01:35] Because you wanted to beat them

[01:01:37] So don't get annoyed that they've gone further than you

[01:01:39] Because you did the exact same thing

[01:01:41] And you wanted to keep them in the game

[01:01:43] And that's the message I was trying to get across to people out there

[01:01:45] Because people get frustrated

[01:01:47] On the jury when they see these people at the end

[01:01:49] They go oh I can't believe they got further than me

[01:01:51] It's like well yeah you facilitated that

[01:01:53] So you've really got to approach this in a different way

[01:01:55] Yeah I mean I do think goat killing when it's a three

[01:01:57] Instead of two is probably

[01:01:59] A little less

[01:02:01] You know pressing because

[01:02:03] With the final two it was like okay so that is like

[01:02:05] 50% of you know at least like the you know

[01:02:07] There's still two more spaces that I could get to

[01:02:09] I also think in the new era

[01:02:11] That is I really had to go to the time thing

[01:02:13] Because I'm really not trying to shame the new era

[01:02:15] I think it makes it harder

[01:02:17] How pressing time feels where it's not just that

[01:02:19] They want to take Venus forward

[01:02:21] To beat her they also like we see Tiffany

[01:02:23] Say it like they see it like as a useless vote

[01:02:25] Like what time are we going to spend

[01:02:27] That's the biggest reason that someone like Hugh who's like a real agitator

[01:02:29] But now is also a goat

[01:02:31] That's the reason he could

[01:02:33] Maybe go through because people will feel like well then now it's unimportant

[01:02:35] And we see like who's getting the resume point for Venus

[01:02:37] Like no one

[01:02:39] Because it's not really a move it's not impressive

[01:02:41] Like you took down Venus

[01:02:43] She's going to take your spot in the final challenge

[01:02:45] I know and I think there's so much merit to that

[01:02:47] Like I think that there's complete

[01:02:49] You know relevance in

[01:02:51] Taking like yeah there's utility

[01:02:53] In the fact that she's going to take your spot

[01:02:55] And it's worth around to get rid of

[01:02:57] Someone that's plugging up the end game

[01:02:59] But who gets credit?

[01:03:01] That's the resume point are we really spending time?

[01:03:03] There's no time for a placeholder move and that's how it seems

[01:03:05] So yeah

[01:03:07] And that's why we see it now so so often

[01:03:09] Where like how many weeks back could we have said Owen

[01:03:11] And Jake were going to be

[01:03:13] Zero vote finalists

[01:03:15] Yeah I also had

[01:03:17] To laugh as well like when it gets to day 13

[01:03:19] And then they're starting to merge

[01:03:21] Just after living the game

[01:03:23] And what day 13 we were doing our first swap

[01:03:25] And I just think of how much

[01:03:27] It's really been a thing

[01:03:29] I know I feel bad because

[01:03:31] Soda's the first juror

[01:03:33] She made it to the jury you didn't make it

[01:03:35] And she did go to one tribal council before

[01:03:37] Her vote and you went to like 40

[01:03:39] You know

[01:03:41] And still didn't make the merge

[01:03:43] But that's why whenever anyone's complaining about Newyra versus

[01:03:45] Aldi or 2639

[01:03:47] I'm like hey not only come to

[01:03:49] Australia but also none of you

[01:03:51] What about Chrissy and Jericho the only winners

[01:03:53] Who are apparently relevant if that's the criteria

[01:03:55] They're paying 55 days

[01:03:57] That's eight days even longer than Australia is now

[01:03:59] That's crazy

[01:04:01] It is crazy

[01:04:03] That's the only relevant

[01:04:05] But I think that

[01:04:07] It definitely like it builds intrigue in different ways

[01:04:09] Because we had placeholder votes

[01:04:11] Even in Titans V Rebels

[01:04:13] Which was go go go

[01:04:15] It really didn't let up but even something like the Alex vote

[01:04:17] It felt like okay we can like take the time

[01:04:19] To you know

[01:04:21] Just sit for a second and think about the fact that we now

[01:04:23] Have to prepare for the end game and kind of manage our positioning

[01:04:25] That doesn't really exist in the Newyra because they feel like

[01:04:27] They can't afford it and then everyone's

[01:04:29] You know

[01:04:31] Elevating or fastening the game in their own way

[01:04:33] And everyone else has to keep up and then you're running

[01:04:35] And you're on the hamster wheel

[01:04:37] That's tough

[01:04:39] So what happens so I'm here

[01:04:41] For the Q Liz V

[01:04:43] Final three

[01:04:45] You might win then I'd win my draft

[01:04:47] Honestly I think that would be

[01:04:49] An amazing final three

[01:04:51] Who would win

[01:04:53] Well this is the question Shannon

[01:04:55] Because it honestly

[01:04:57] The Q quit

[01:04:59] Did seem to genuinely annoy

[01:05:01] People like genuinely

[01:05:03] Upset people what he was trying to do

[01:05:05] In that spot and whether or not

[01:05:07] That sticks around for long enough to actually affect people

[01:05:09] Liz has a chance

[01:05:11] Although

[01:05:13] It would be so fun

[01:05:15] Watching them like have it to decide

[01:05:17] Who they're going to put the vote on because everyone

[01:05:19] Feels very passionate

[01:05:21] About those three

[01:05:23] And how much they've done in the game so

[01:05:25] Any one of them could win

[01:05:27] I think Q might have burned too many bridges

[01:05:29] I think he might have burned too many

[01:05:31] Bridges although he's done a lot

[01:05:33] Liz could sneak

[01:05:35] In there mate

[01:05:37] From an editor perspective definitely not

[01:05:39] From a gaming perspective I think

[01:05:41] Q would win because I think

[01:05:43] To be fair Q's only been on the arts for like just a little

[01:05:45] Over an episode Venus

[01:05:47] No no one like Venus is

[01:05:49] And Liz

[01:05:51] Is so aware of her own

[01:05:53] Perception in a way that is clearly negative like she's

[01:05:55] Telling it to us I'd love to talk about

[01:05:57] You know Liz from that perspective because

[01:05:59] This move against Tevin

[01:06:01] You know of everyone turning on

[01:06:03] Their allies

[01:06:05] I do think that I get it the most

[01:06:07] For Liz based on the positioning we've talked about where

[01:06:09] She is not going to be targeted

[01:06:11] She has some room to move and she also

[01:06:13] Has the least to lose

[01:06:15] And probably the most to gain like she does need

[01:06:17] To get resume points now that's a bad

[01:06:19] Position to be in like I'm critical of the

[01:06:21] Fact that she

[01:06:23] Is in the position where she does need to take out her main

[01:06:25] Ally to get resume

[01:06:27] Points but that's like

[01:06:29] You know then that was bad in the past but

[01:06:31] In this one move I do feel

[01:06:33] Like she probably does

[01:06:35] Gain from it in many

[01:06:37] Many ways does need to do it

[01:06:39] I do think a couple of things

[01:06:41] Firstly I think

[01:06:43] That the soda move was Tevin's

[01:06:45] Like obviously not Venus's

[01:06:47] It was Tevin's

[01:06:49] But like even Liz trying to claim it like he's the one going to all the people

[01:06:51] She's lying down he comes to her

[01:06:53] He's the one talking to Charlie and Maria and more importantly

[01:06:55] He has this six connection

[01:06:57] And this big relationship with Maria from

[01:06:59] The first episode

[01:07:01] That makes it happen Liz just having

[01:07:03] The idea and wanting to do it isn't what puts a move into

[01:07:05] Practice like Tevin did that

[01:07:07] So just listen to Tevin on that

[01:07:09] If you watch the conversation

[01:07:11] Where Tevin talks to Liz

[01:07:13] And she's lying down

[01:07:15] You can see her

[01:07:17] Brain go yeah

[01:07:19] That's what I want

[01:07:21] But the thing is it's not a move

[01:07:23] Until you action it

[01:07:25] Until you actually bring people in

[01:07:27] If a move falls in the woods

[01:07:29] No one's around

[01:07:31] Exactly no

[01:07:33] What ends up happening is like it is

[01:07:35] Tevin brings it up and no one is

[01:07:37] Dropping seeds into Tevin's head like this is something

[01:07:39] That he wants to do and he's put it out there

[01:07:41] He's dropped that information and it doesn't matter

[01:07:43] That Liz immediately

[01:07:45] Latches onto it and even the way that she talks

[01:07:47] About it when she says

[01:07:49] Yeah that's what I want

[01:07:51] Do we want this

[01:07:53] We're going to do this

[01:07:55] Trying to get him to agree with her

[01:07:57] It was just very interesting

[01:07:59] And that's why she felt

[01:08:01] Retroactively she needed to be like

[01:08:03] This is really annoying I'm not getting any credit

[01:08:05] So I'm going to have to take out Tevin

[01:08:07] Which ultimately was a 100% Liz's move

[01:08:09] You can't argue that that was Liz's move

[01:08:11] That was 100% Liz's move

[01:08:13] The discourse around the Soda Vote

[01:08:15] Was kind of maddening to watch even like

[01:08:17] From a distance I was like I'm really glad I'm not having to be a part of this

[01:08:19] Like I um

[01:08:21] It was so irritating because it was so clearly

[01:08:23] Tevin's move even though we

[01:08:25] Didn't vote for her I'm like so now we throw

[01:08:27] Votes or we split votes

[01:08:29] And it's not your vote like someone needs to tell Kirby

[01:08:31] Actually that was actually a big point of contention

[01:08:33] But no

[01:08:35] This is shot in the dark

[01:08:37] This is shot in the dark era as well

[01:08:39] You need other votes on other people and stuff like that

[01:08:41] Like it's

[01:08:43] That's just part of the game you need to have

[01:08:45] That one single vote on someone else

[01:08:47] Or a couple of votes

[01:08:49] I had to do that several times in our season as well

[01:08:51] You have to just go yep we need a couple of extra votes there

[01:08:53] Like it's fine

[01:08:55] Can I enter a pet peeve into the discourse

[01:08:57] Like I think I've said this

[01:08:59] But when people

[01:09:01] Talk about voting correctly

[01:09:03] Only people who voted that name

[01:09:05] It's like

[01:09:07] All the proofs is that you've gone to Wikipedia page

[01:09:09] And seen which name lines up with the name that went

[01:09:11] Like again like Charlie voting throwing the vote on Venus

[01:09:13] Was a better move than had he just piled on

[01:09:15] Mariah but now Charlie hasn't

[01:09:17] Voted correctly every time

[01:09:19] I saw a tweet today really irritated me

[01:09:21] That's not what voting correctly is

[01:09:23] There's so much more nuance like and but there is nuance to that

[01:09:25] Like sometimes being on the beta of the split is meaningful

[01:09:27] But some a lot of the times splitting is better

[01:09:29] Throwing a vote is better

[01:09:31] It's always better

[01:09:33] I'm getting involved in the discourse even though I was glad to be

[01:09:35] Away from it at the time

[01:09:37] But I had to do the same thing

[01:09:39] I was doing movie quotes

[01:09:41] For my voting professionals

[01:09:43] And then I had to start doing them for people that weren't

[01:09:45] Going home because I was the split vote

[01:09:47] And then that is just way less impactful

[01:09:49] And hence they're not showing

[01:09:51] That exactly

[01:09:53] I'm like I'm dropping

[01:09:55] Like Top Gun Maverick things stuff like that

[01:09:57] But if Nathan's not going home in this vote

[01:09:59] They're not gonna show it and yeah

[01:10:01] Look you have to take one for the team sometimes

[01:10:03] And you just go yep I'm gonna be here

[01:10:05] Just in case they use an idol or use their shot in the dark

[01:10:07] So I completely understand what's going on

[01:10:09] It was an upsetting conversation because it was like

[01:10:11] This is Tevin's move but it's a bad move

[01:10:13] Like let him claim his own bad move

[01:10:15] He literally goes home in the next episode

[01:10:17] But the whole time even hearing the way that he spoke about it

[01:10:19] In Exit he was like

[01:10:21] Oh yeah like the issue was that Venus and Soda

[01:10:23] Were very close like clearly a misread

[01:10:25] On Soda

[01:10:27] But also even if you get rid of Venus it also

[01:10:29] Fixes that issue like Venus and Soda are the two options

[01:10:31] So

[01:10:33] And so much of it was he like Tevin is the best

[01:10:35] Example of the time pressure

[01:10:37] As he has said like you know

[01:10:39] Gotta make the big move in my second travel council

[01:10:41] Because to be fair the game ends next week

[01:10:43] So he you know was struggling with that

[01:10:45] But yeah for Tevin I was like

[01:10:47] Damn let him claim this move was not even a good one

[01:10:49] Let him have it

[01:10:51] But for Liz I do feel like

[01:10:53] She takes it from there

[01:10:55] To do her own move

[01:10:57] If Tevin plays that differently

[01:10:59] And goes

[01:11:01] Liz we did it

[01:11:03] Like you and me we got out Soda

[01:11:05] This was great like Liz

[01:11:07] We are really pulling the strings here

[01:11:09] And just brings Liz in

[01:11:11] In conversation I think you have a totally

[01:11:13] Different outcome I think you empower

[01:11:15] Again this is a misread because they were both

[01:11:17] So desperate to

[01:11:19] Create a resume

[01:11:21] And to create a move that they both

[01:11:23] Expressed it in different ways Liz got upset

[01:11:25] And Tevin is like I'm not getting credit

[01:11:27] And Tevin does his

[01:11:29] Laughing and like I can't believe

[01:11:31] These guys think this and ha ha ha

[01:11:33] It's really funny they are both doing the same thing

[01:11:35] They are both trying to say hey

[01:11:37] This is actually me

[01:11:39] And if he had a better read

[01:11:41] On Liz's insecurities

[01:11:43] And being able to go like no no no

[01:11:45] We did this together but everyone is so

[01:11:47] Worried about sharing like sharing

[01:11:49] The reward with someone else or sharing

[01:11:51] The view with someone else if he reads that

[01:11:53] And puts more of it onto Liz

[01:11:55] Knowing full well that look

[01:11:57] Once I come to final trouble council

[01:11:59] I will be able to swing this and

[01:12:01] Spill this whatever way I want and make it sound like

[01:12:03] It definitely was my move because in my heart

[01:12:05] I probably know it was my move

[01:12:07] And I can make that work

[01:12:09] But

[01:12:11] Scorning Liz in that point there really came back

[01:12:13] To bite him in the ass and I think again this is a misread

[01:12:15] On people's social dynamics

[01:12:17] And how people are actually feeling inside the game

[01:12:19] At any time

[01:12:21] I don't think he wasn't trying to share credit

[01:12:23] Because he was having conversations with just her

[01:12:25] It wasn't like he was going to everyone else

[01:12:27] And if anything he was letting Venus take the credit

[01:12:29] So he didn't feel like he needed other people to know then

[01:12:31] But between he and his closest ally

[01:12:33] At that point Liz with Hunter

[01:12:35] He probably felt like he could have a really

[01:12:37] Authentic conversation and to be fair

[01:12:39] The authentic move was it had been his move

[01:12:41] He's probably like I do

[01:12:43] Think and I kind of like wonder if we can compare it

[01:12:45] A little bit to how you were reading someone like Jaden

[01:12:47] But like I do wonder with Liz it's like

[01:12:49] She's chilling out

[01:12:51] She's lying down

[01:12:53] It seems like she should be

[01:12:55] Kind of okay

[01:12:57] With we had this idea and Tevin took it

[01:12:59] And he did run with it

[01:13:01] If Liz felt like she wanted to so much be

[01:13:03] Like the alpha on that

[01:13:05] She didn't act like it

[01:13:07] Now I think he did misread from how much

[01:13:09] Everyone is a hero of their own story

[01:13:11] And how much she would want to be a part of that

[01:13:13] If Soda was such like a big bugbear of hers

[01:13:15] Of like how much you wanted Soda out

[01:13:17] I think he would have been more gracious with that

[01:13:19] But I probably feel like he was like we were both there

[01:13:21] I took the lead on it we both got what we wanted

[01:13:23] And was kind of just being

[01:13:25] Like he let his guard down

[01:13:27] That's what it seemed like to me

[01:13:29] He let a really authentic guard down with a key

[01:13:31] Ally relationship that he had full and complete trust in

[01:13:33] Thinking they could have this really authentic conversation

[01:13:35] About what it just clearly actually I think objectively

[01:13:37] Transfired

[01:13:39] But then you've got to read

[01:13:41] Facial expressions and

[01:13:43] How Liz is nodding along

[01:13:45] She's not celebrating that with you

[01:13:47] She's not up and about she's not excited

[01:13:49] And you've got to read into those things and pick up on those

[01:13:51] Non-verbal cues which she was not doing

[01:13:53] Because I think he was a little bit caught up in it

[01:13:55] Nami reads of each other

[01:13:57] Like it's the fact that she's like got to get out

[01:13:59] Soda because she's so close with Venus now

[01:14:01] And then Venus is like got to get out

[01:14:03] You know Tevin or Soda because they're so close to each other

[01:14:05] Saying that to the Seegas as Tevin

[01:14:07] Is launching a vote on Soda

[01:14:09] Without Venus

[01:14:11] Then this misread onto Liz

[01:14:13] Nami we're a tribe

[01:14:15] Truly

[01:14:17] We haven't even talked about Hunter yet

[01:14:19] Yeah and I want to talk about it

[01:14:21] With Hunter before we get because I feel like Hunter is a big part

[01:14:23] Of the last but we haven't really spoken about Yarnoo

[01:14:25] And we will be because I feel like again they devolve

[01:14:27] Kind of last and in my

[01:14:29] Head I'm chronologically somewhere I think

[01:14:31] There's a structure to this podcast

[01:14:33] That's not just me word vomiting

[01:14:35] A month worth of thoughts but

[01:14:37] The Tevin vote was so interesting to me

[01:14:39] Can we talk about Liz pulling off the mood because she pulls it

[01:14:41] Off

[01:14:43] She wants to go for a number one ally

[01:14:45] And how does she do that? She basically just tells everyone

[01:14:47] And they're all into it

[01:14:49] She just puts Tevin's name out there

[01:14:51] And suddenly everyone is just like okay

[01:14:53] Yeah he gets on with everyone

[01:14:55] He's got really good energy

[01:14:57] And everyone just picks it up

[01:14:59] It is honestly weird she makes one comment

[01:15:01] And everyone's on board that I don't think would have happened

[01:15:03] Unless she put it out there

[01:15:05] Yes she gives a lot of people

[01:15:07] Something where they don't have a better option like Venus doesn't

[01:15:09] Ben doesn't

[01:15:11] Kenzie and Tiffany the only other option had been Tiffany

[01:15:13] That she was that they wouldn't have known

[01:15:15] So a lot of people are getting things

[01:15:17] That's already a five that's already a plurality

[01:15:19] So she gives

[01:15:21] People something to hang onto with someone

[01:15:23] Who is a threat like it's a good plan

[01:15:25] Everyone's willing to go on board with it but it was so

[01:15:27] Interesting that it was pretty much a unanimous

[01:15:29] Vote because everyone's so connected

[01:15:31] And because it was so open I also think that's one of the

[01:15:33] Reasons it became so chaotic and it kind of

[01:15:35] Gave me like hives because it was

[01:15:37] So uncontrolled

[01:15:39] It was not contained

[01:15:41] You go back and you watch it and she's having

[01:15:43] Big conversations with like the

[01:15:45] Seegas originally and then we see her talking to the

[01:15:47] Yanus so there wasn't a sense

[01:15:49] Of like there's 10 people and we need six

[01:15:51] Like it went to

[01:15:53] The Seegas that's already four with her

[01:15:55] Venus even Venus was included

[01:15:57] That's five

[01:15:59] Then we're gonna want

[01:16:01] We need more than five because we're gonna have Kenzie

[01:16:03] And with Kenzie we're gonna have Tiffany

[01:16:05] See those conversations happening that's very seven

[01:16:07] Then Tiffany's gonna tell Q

[01:16:09] Q's gonna tell Hunter well that's everyone except

[01:16:11] It's a miracle that it was a blind side

[01:16:13] Yeah but Hunter

[01:16:15] Still votes, Hunter still votes Venus

[01:16:17] Yeah but he's

[01:16:19] Again like he's still brought in on it like that's how at that

[01:16:21] Point connected all these

[01:16:23] Relationships are that like there's no

[01:16:25] Like segregated line

[01:16:27] Of where we can have a stopping point

[01:16:29] To have a really contained group of six of ten

[01:16:31] Vote for something like it just was like a free

[01:16:33] For all like good on list for getting it done

[01:16:35] But like it just it made me anxious

[01:16:37] It got a lot of momentum

[01:16:39] And it's funny because I always I was

[01:16:41] Always like okay I only

[01:16:43] Want this many people

[01:16:45] I only need the minimum amount of people

[01:16:47] To get it done, I need to know about it and just be

[01:16:49] Okay we're gonna stop there and we're gonna do it and it's gonna

[01:16:51] Happen and we're gonna move on from there

[01:16:53] And then we're gonna deal with the blow back

[01:16:55] From the people that didn't know about it later on but

[01:16:57] We're not allowing

[01:16:59] Someone with an idol to get involved or to

[01:17:01] The things to get hinky because

[01:17:03] There are two the more people involved in

[01:17:05] A plan the more likely it is to go right and

[01:17:07] You can't check in with everyone and so I'm

[01:17:09] Not sure like Tiff was probably

[01:17:11] Regretting telling Q

[01:17:13] Like because immediately once you

[01:17:15] Tell Q things are

[01:17:17] Like anything can happen at that point

[01:17:19] And it did and as soon as he

[01:17:21] As soon as he then told Hunter and then Hunter

[01:17:23] Went I do love the fact that the Q

[01:17:25] Is like now Hunter don't go over there don't

[01:17:27] Blow things up and Hunter just goes in blasting he's like

[01:17:29] No no no I'm okay he just goes straight across

[01:17:31] To the group and just starts saying guys why are we

[01:17:33] Doing this let's not do this it was wild

[01:17:35] Yeah I mean let's talk about Hunter

[01:17:37] A little bit because to be fair

[01:17:39] I got Hunter wanting to save

[01:17:41] Tamiling that is his primary ally

[01:17:43] Yes 100%

[01:17:45] I felt like he did a good amount with that which was

[01:17:47] I'm gonna try I don't need

[01:17:49] To vote for him I'm not gonna vote for someone that again

[01:17:51] Will you know be meaningful

[01:17:53] To anyone other than Venus

[01:17:55] But I'm not gonna play the

[01:17:57] I'm not gonna tell him like he did

[01:17:59] Still I think by goodwill was still trying

[01:18:01] To while they still had time

[01:18:03] Saved him and while it failed I thought

[01:18:05] That was like a good middle ground

[01:18:07] But for Hunter who was my

[01:18:09] Winner pick let's talk about like now

[01:18:11] That he's you know out of the game he doesn't

[01:18:13] Play the idol

[01:18:15] What are your thoughts on that

[01:18:17] Because the exit interview was interesting we got

[01:18:19] Quite a lot of clarity from him in that

[01:18:21] Yeah so look

[01:18:23] And it felt like

[01:18:25] He really fell under

[01:18:27] Kenzie

[01:18:29] Sort of convinced him not to

[01:18:31] Play in that moment of

[01:18:33] Thinking that like we're all good

[01:18:35] But okay this is what I want to tell

[01:18:37] Hunter so

[01:18:39] If you've got an idol

[01:18:41] And if people are actively

[01:18:43] Telling you not to play

[01:18:45] Your idol

[01:18:47] Like play the

[01:18:49] Frickin idol because if you

[01:18:51] Stop for one second right

[01:18:53] And think hang on how does me

[01:18:55] How does me playing the idol

[01:18:57] And not playing the idol affect everyone

[01:18:59] Else's game right

[01:19:01] So how does me right now keeping my

[01:19:03] Idol help Kenzie

[01:19:05] It doesn't so why is she telling

[01:19:07] Me not to play it

[01:19:09] Like if you actually stop and think about that for

[01:19:11] A second going hang on

[01:19:13] Unless it's one of my really

[01:19:15] Really good allies that knows that I'm

[01:19:17] Going to share this idol with them and then we can possibly

[01:19:19] Do something in the future it actually does

[01:19:21] Not help anyone else in the game for you

[01:19:23] To have an idol if anything they should

[01:19:25] Be telling you to flush your idol

[01:19:27] To be saying mate I'd play it just in case

[01:19:29] 100% of the time

[01:19:31] They would be telling you trying trying

[01:19:33] To get you to burn your idol they would say mate

[01:19:35] Do whatever you think look it's dicey

[01:19:37] Maybe play it like I don't know

[01:19:39] First of all they don't want to tell you to definitely

[01:19:41] Play it because that's a red flag and

[01:19:43] They're not going to say it so

[01:19:45] Hunter yeah if you just took one second

[01:19:47] And I know it's really hard when you're in tribal council

[01:19:49] And you it did look like the time pressure

[01:19:51] Like leading up to that there was a lot of

[01:19:53] Plans that happening right after the last

[01:19:55] Minute but if you think about that for

[01:19:57] A second about what it does to other people's

[01:19:59] Games for you to not play your idol

[01:20:01] I think that's your answer right there

[01:20:03] You should have 100% played your idol

[01:20:05] You should have 100% played your idol

[01:20:07] Yeah so to

[01:20:09] Talk through what he thought

[01:20:11] Was happening

[01:20:13] Basically the best defense that he gives

[01:20:15] In the ex interviews is that

[01:20:17] He kind of felt like if it's you know

[01:20:19] Because we see that like it was a split

[01:20:21] There's a kind of discourse was it a split I think

[01:20:23] It's pretty clearly a split based on the

[01:20:25] Revote as the first kind of clue

[01:20:27] And based on the fact that we see Charlie say we're not

[01:20:29] Going to tell Q and Liz so it's kind of like

[01:20:31] A 6-3 and it should be split

[01:20:33] 3-3-3 it wasn't

[01:20:35] Of that 6 it was split 4-2

[01:20:37] And I want to talk through the split on

[01:20:39] That because it was not like really what should have been a

[01:20:41] Successful split if there was that kind of like

[01:20:43] 3-3-3 of you know

[01:20:45] The three that were kind of left out of the

[01:20:47] Six person group but

[01:20:49] If it is a 6-3 he kind of felt like he could

[01:20:51] Pile on with Liz, Alexander Ito style

[01:20:53] And it will be a 5-4 even if Q votes for him

[01:20:55] The 3-3 their 5 will beat the 4

[01:20:57] That's the best defense you can give

[01:20:59] Now there's always interesting stuff on there and how

[01:21:01] You can kind of pile on a split to

[01:21:03] Not have to play your idol

[01:21:05] But I also feel like his story is a little inconsistent because

[01:21:07] He's also talking about people pretty personally like

[01:21:09] Tiffany will want to vote for Q it's like okay so is it

[01:21:11] Personal or is it like a split down the middle

[01:21:13] So I think like he was grasping at straws because he so badly

[01:21:15] Didn't want to play the idol that he was making himself

[01:21:17] Believe like he knew he was getting votes

[01:21:19] Yeah exactly like he was trying

[01:21:21] So hard to believe because he wanted it to be true

[01:21:23] So even on piling

[01:21:25] On the split I would still

[01:21:27] Think you want to be safe because

[01:21:29] For Hunter I feel like he did pretty

[01:21:31] Well that the 6 even got him through the

[01:21:33] Split tribal without playing his idol okay that's

[01:21:35] Going pretty well and now you have a lot of tools to be

[01:21:37] A very purely defensive player which is

[01:21:39] Not a way that I would like to play but is the

[01:21:41] Mold that Hunter who is such

[01:21:43] A big physical threat in this group

[01:21:45] Needs to play at this point it is

[01:21:47] Not a game of alliances it is not a

[01:21:49] Game of relationships it's not even a game of like

[01:21:51] Who are the other kind of

[01:21:53] Physical threats I can take out I don't think

[01:21:55] Targets matter I don't think allies matter I think

[01:21:57] That's how far in front he is on this

[01:21:59] Alpha type of game but then play the game

[01:22:01] Like Hunter should never be vulnerable ever

[01:22:03] Again so in this round then he kind

[01:22:05] Of mentioned that you play your shot in the dark

[01:22:07] And if it hits you save your idol and if it

[01:22:09] Doesn't you play your idol and then you're

[01:22:11] If it hits yes dude then

[01:22:13] Yeah shot in the dark into idol and then

[01:22:15] You either keep it one in six times or five

[01:22:17] In six times play the idol and then

[01:22:19] You're the one who has to go and find

[01:22:21] A new idol like you have set yourself a task

[01:22:23] But you have to execute on the task or you

[01:22:25] Have to win challenges like where he is in this game

[01:22:27] From where he won from

[01:22:29] Here at nine that's

[01:22:31] Five rounds that's where Kirby

[01:22:33] Was trying to get from seven you know

[01:22:35] Just to get to four just to get the double chance

[01:22:37] Of fire I think it was pretty doable

[01:22:39] Like he had like he you know the idol here

[01:22:41] But everyone talks

[01:22:43] Everyone talks about like Hunter

[01:22:45] Challenge beast and stuff like that you gotta remember

[01:22:47] Individual challenges now

[01:22:49] It's like there's so many

[01:22:51] About balance there's so many about he's good

[01:22:53] At balance he's good at everything he's a jack of all trades

[01:22:55] He's not super good at not

[01:22:57] Good not great he's good at endurance

[01:22:59] He's not amazing at balance yeah that's what

[01:23:01] I mean and there's always going to be more balanced ones

[01:23:03] No one's gonna win all the way through they're

[01:23:05] Just not but if you've got an idol

[01:23:07] We've had alpha game players win

[01:23:09] We've had versions of Ben

[01:23:11] Versions of Mike even Chappie

[01:23:13] In Survival South Africa outright wins the game

[01:23:15] If it's a final three he does doesn't cause it's a final

[01:23:17] Two Hunter needs to get to a final four

[01:23:19] And he is far and above anyone else

[01:23:21] And he has an idol and he has the ability to win more

[01:23:23] And he has a shot in the dark like there are tools in the belt

[01:23:25] You're forgetting one thing

[01:23:27] Q hasn't been trying in any challenges up until

[01:23:29] This point he's been throwing every single

[01:23:31] Challenge so when he turns it on

[01:23:33] He starts winning everyone moving forward

[01:23:35] Yeah he'll probably never turn it on

[01:23:37] Like we just hope that he keeps throwing

[01:23:39] The challenges and then Hunter will win the game

[01:23:41] I do think that you that

[01:23:43] Would I want to play a purely defensive game?

[01:23:45] No like no

[01:23:47] I think he's been forced largely by himself

[01:23:49] Into this position in these like

[01:23:51] Big group challenges like the tribe

[01:23:53] Challenges they needed him to pull it out and he did

[01:23:55] So I guess he had to make himself a threat like he

[01:23:57] Oh yeah

[01:23:59] Unless he points to Tyson and he

[01:24:01] Pretends that he's hurt his shoulder and then

[01:24:03] He throws that throwing all these challenges and

[01:24:05] Takes the target off his back but that's never

[01:24:07] That's never gonna work even then people are probably like you're still

[01:24:09] More of a threat

[01:24:11] So

[01:24:13] Yeah he needed to get it done in the tribe

[01:24:15] Challenges it made him

[01:24:17] A really big threat and now he's

[01:24:19] Been forced into one type of game style

[01:24:21] Which I'm not saying is going to work I'm just saying it had

[01:24:23] The capacity to work it's probably not

[01:24:25] The next five challenges in a row

[01:24:27] What would be from eight four eight seven six five

[01:24:29] Four challenges in a row but it's probably

[01:24:31] A combination of that and finding

[01:24:33] Another idol or a show in the dark

[01:24:35] Hitting like yeah it does

[01:24:37] It's not it's not a one round

[01:24:39] Of someone being you know

[01:24:41] A bigger threat but right now when you

[01:24:43] Know you're getting votes right now you need to be

[01:24:45] Protected and you need to be pretty much as protected

[01:24:47] As possible if you can 100 percent

[01:24:49] Of the time until the end

[01:24:51] And I always find once you've found an idol

[01:24:53] You sort of get the idol

[01:24:55] The idol juice going you sort of know

[01:24:57] Where to find them and you know how to look for

[01:24:59] Them and you get that sort of sense and the

[01:25:01] Amount of time that once people find one

[01:25:03] Idol there is I don't know

[01:25:05] Whether anyone's done the percentage wise

[01:25:07] Once you found one I reckon that really

[01:25:09] Jumps up how many more you actually find

[01:25:11] And I definitely think he could

[01:25:13] Have very easily found another one moving

[01:25:15] Forward and it's that old thing just

[01:25:17] Get through one more day if you can

[01:25:19] Get through one more day and you're not 100 percent sure

[01:25:21] What's going on but that's

[01:25:23] But then I've got to give credit to Kenzie because Kenzie

[01:25:25] Did make him feel safe

[01:25:27] And make him feel good and if you're playing

[01:25:29] Against people that are really manipulating

[01:25:31] You at that level then yeah

[01:25:33] He got fooled and he got done

[01:25:35] Which is yeah I did like Hunter I thought

[01:25:37] He was good he didn't have the same strategic

[01:25:39] Chops as anyone else out there but

[01:25:41] He definitely had a way forward

[01:25:43] And I feel I always feel bad when people leave

[01:25:45] The game with an idol in their pocket

[01:25:47] What could have been there's so many would have should

[01:25:49] Have could have in that regard you're just like oh this

[01:25:51] Is killer yeah well you credit Kenzie

[01:25:53] But he also he just wanted it to be true

[01:25:55] So much so much of that is self-inflicted

[01:25:57] There you as well would say with the idol juice

[01:25:59] He's at Nami beach

[01:26:01] So he has time with that beat

[01:26:03] Home ground advantage only one

[01:26:05] In in the game right now who has found an idol

[01:26:07] On that beach so

[01:26:09] You have to back yourself

[01:26:11] And like by you know like that you're gonna that you're

[01:26:13] Gonna do the things that you've set out to do

[01:26:15] In this archetype and when you know that you're

[01:26:17] Getting some votes

[01:26:19] I think it was just it was too risky

[01:26:21] Even with I think that the like piling

[01:26:23] On the split is the best defense

[01:26:25] And even then

[01:26:27] I also he did he did

[01:26:29] Know he did know that it was him

[01:26:31] And Q like he knew that yeah

[01:26:33] So that we did have information

[01:26:35] That I think that I really enjoy the editing

[01:26:37] Of these last few weeks as well I think there's so many fun

[01:26:39] Kind of threads and they'll often do kind

[01:26:41] Of like a sitcom level thing where they'll say

[01:26:43] Like this would never happen

[01:26:45] And then they'll cut to it how you know

[01:26:47] This would be a great opportunity for someone and then they do

[01:26:49] But I think the editing of this episode

[01:26:51] It kind of went into like the lack

[01:26:53] Of clarity in the chaos without showing us as much

[01:26:55] About the split where the entry could have

[01:26:57] Just been will hunt to play the idol like that's a fine

[01:26:59] Binary intrigue to have and they leaned a little

[01:27:01] Bit into the chaos where again like we're even

[01:27:03] There even there's even discourse around whether it

[01:27:05] Was a split but yeah

[01:27:07] I think like in terms of if

[01:27:09] He wants to pile on this on the split

[01:27:11] And if he doesn't want to play his idol like he has

[01:27:13] To lean much further into implicit immunity than

[01:27:15] He is like he's telling people

[01:27:17] About the idol he says socially

[01:27:19] So he's telling people that are like on the bottom

[01:27:21] He's telling Venus Q and Liz

[01:27:23] And to be fair

[01:27:25] That four in a perfect

[01:27:27] Chess world where they don't

[01:27:29] They aren't massive social chasms

[01:27:31] Like that four should work together

[01:27:33] They very much on the bottom

[01:27:35] Those are the three that aren't kind of like included

[01:27:37] In Kenzie's plan even against Tiffany

[01:27:39] Like they're the four that have you know

[01:27:41] Not an agency like even in a world where the

[01:27:43] People in power going to turn on each other

[01:27:45] Like Kenzie trying to turn on Tiffany

[01:27:47] That four should come back at eight and try to do

[01:27:49] Something like they have had no power in the game

[01:27:51] And they can also have the best chance

[01:27:53] Of kind of beating each other as we've said

[01:27:55] With the other three at the end

[01:27:57] So he's trying to like socially make that work

[01:27:59] But it's just like kind of divorced from any kind

[01:28:01] Of social reality but I understand that

[01:28:03] But it's all social like even going to Kenzie

[01:28:05] He's doing it as like a social thing with Kenzie

[01:28:07] He should be threatening them

[01:28:09] If he doesn't want to play the idol

[01:28:11] And they can't perfectly split which we'll talk about

[01:28:13] Because they don't he thinks they can on the three three three

[01:28:15] But like if he's trying to force votes away

[01:28:17] If he's trying to pile on a split

[01:28:19] Send votes to Q

[01:28:21] Wear the idol and have them look you in the eye

[01:28:23] And vote for you and see if they're strong enough to do it

[01:28:25] See if they want to trust in their split enough

[01:28:27] To split on you

[01:28:29] And there were four votes on him

[01:28:31] So they didn't actually trust in a perfect split

[01:28:33] I think it would I think if had he done that

[01:28:35] It would have pushed enough votes away from him onto Q

[01:28:37] And I think he survives

[01:28:39] We saw exactly what Tiff did

[01:28:41] Like Tiff played the idol

[01:28:43] How she needed to play it

[01:28:45] And she didn't actually have to play it

[01:28:47] At the end of the day

[01:28:49] But she did that perfectly she went to the IP which is

[01:28:51] You know what this is out and about now I'm just going to play this

[01:28:53] And immediately it took all the wind out of Kenzie

[01:28:55] Immediately was just like

[01:28:57] Okay well this is fucked I can't do this anymore

[01:28:59] And like see you later

[01:29:01] So it's just polar opposites

[01:29:03] That what Hunter left so late

[01:29:05] And the people that he went to weren't the decision makers

[01:29:07] And I think he just

[01:29:09] He just read that understanding of

[01:29:11] Again the dynamics

[01:29:13] I think in his head he's like yeah I'll scoop up all these people at the bottom

[01:29:15] Which should actually work

[01:29:17] But realistically they're not the ones

[01:29:19] That are making any of the decisions at this point

[01:29:21] So you needed to go and scare

[01:29:23] Like you said scare these people into going

[01:29:25] Okay well yep

[01:29:27] You saw half of them were like umming and ah-ing

[01:29:29] I don't know you just get it out

[01:29:31] At that point you just get out your idol

[01:29:33] And you just say yeah here it is

[01:29:35] So what are we doing tonight?

[01:29:37] He gave them the out where they were like

[01:29:39] He's bluffing

[01:29:41] He allows them to be like oh it's too late to change it

[01:29:43] We don't want to

[01:29:45] And so we'll just say that he's bluffing

[01:29:47] No wear it

[01:29:49] Like literally put it on

[01:29:51] Because he wasn't like appealing to people

[01:29:53] He went to people as he said

[01:29:55] And I think this is true

[01:29:57] Like he assumed at that point he was going to play it

[01:29:59] So it was more like what am I coming back to for the future

[01:30:01] Like what social connection am I making that

[01:30:03] And that I'm not just going to blindside everyone with this idol

[01:30:05] I'm saying this is an anti social game

[01:30:07] It is a defensive game it is all about protection

[01:30:09] If you are not going to play the idol which I 100% think should have been plan A

[01:30:11] There's something in a plan B

[01:30:13] Of threatening people with it

[01:30:15] Of it being a loaded gun

[01:30:17] But he was using it as a tool to connect with people

[01:30:19] That's like the opposite of what I wanted him to do

[01:30:21] Because let's look at the split

[01:30:23] So if it's a 3-3-3 split

[01:30:25] Then

[01:30:27] That's actually

[01:30:29] Like

[01:30:31] We have 4 votes on Hunter

[01:30:33] We have Seega and Tiffany

[01:30:35] So why would they put

[01:30:37] 4 of their 6 on a split

[01:30:39] Against technically 3 and 9

[01:30:43] I think unless someone just screwed up in the chaos

[01:30:45] That's like one thing

[01:30:47] I actually think that what they could have done

[01:30:49] Is they don't trust Venus

[01:30:51] Because no one trusts Venus

[01:30:53] So they might think we need 4 on the primary

[01:30:55] Because they don't want like 4

[01:30:57] To come against if the 4

[01:30:59] That Hunter is talking about on the bottom

[01:31:01] So we need 4 on the primary

[01:31:03] But we're still going to split another vote

[01:31:05] Of Kenzie in the hope that we can get a split

[01:31:07] Of the hope that Venus is with us

[01:31:09] And the hope that Liz does want Q so much

[01:31:11] And even Hunter, which is what happens

[01:31:13] Piles on Q

[01:31:15] It's like a quasi split

[01:31:17] If everything goes right it's a split

[01:31:19] And if it doesn't we still have 4 votes on our primary

[01:31:21] And we're not ready to settle for less than that

[01:31:23] If that is what they did

[01:31:25] Then

[01:31:27] It feels like maybe they wouldn't have wanted

[01:31:29] To put 4 on Hunter because that's not a legitimate enough split

[01:31:31] So

[01:31:33] I really feel like they didn't do something with that

[01:31:35] But I think that's a lot of information

[01:31:37] That we have that he doesn't have

[01:31:39] But still, of course the votes

[01:31:41] But then Liz

[01:31:43] They didn't want to get Liz involved

[01:31:45] So they knew where Liz was voting Q

[01:31:47] So they just left that there

[01:31:49] They're making her like a kind of passive part

[01:31:51] Of the split

[01:31:53] Yeah exactly

[01:31:55] Poor Hunter

[01:31:57] It's just

[01:31:59] You've just got to use the idol like

[01:32:01] You've worked so hard to get it

[01:32:03] This is the first time if your name is out there

[01:32:05] Just the amount of people that don't

[01:32:07] Freaking play their idols

[01:32:09] When they know that their name is out there

[01:32:11] Like it's wild

[01:32:13] I know in his mind

[01:32:15] This goes back to Malcolm and stuff

[01:32:17] If I don't use it now I can use it for the next one

[01:32:19] And then one more

[01:32:21] This is the time

[01:32:23] This is the fallback now

[01:32:25] It's a rainy day

[01:32:27] Yeah like I

[01:32:29] Usually my implicit immunity rule

[01:32:31] Is if you have a public idol

[01:32:33] And they don't have the numbers to split

[01:32:35] Then never play it

[01:32:37] Because they're not going to vote for you

[01:32:39] And if you have a public idol

[01:32:41] And you have the numbers to split

[01:32:43] You definitely do play it

[01:32:45] And it's hard because like

[01:32:47] I don't know if they could fully split

[01:32:49] I mean they couldn't really split but it wasn't public enough

[01:32:51] So if they made it that public because they couldn't really split

[01:32:53] If they made it public enough and threatening enough

[01:32:55] I actually do think it would have changed the votes

[01:32:57] And then he wouldn't have needed to play it

[01:32:59] But also in the idea that they possibly could have had enough votes to split

[01:33:01] And in a 6-3 you would think that they would

[01:33:03] Without that distrust of Venus or something going badly awry

[01:33:05] He should think that that's scary enough

[01:33:07] There's enough numbers there that there's a possible split

[01:33:09] Where they will come for me

[01:33:11] Even if my idol is super public

[01:33:13] And he wasn't even using that implicit immunity again

[01:33:15] As he should have been

[01:33:17] But even within that you would think

[01:33:19] This is still threatening enough to play it

[01:33:21] So I don't know how much sense I'm making

[01:33:23] But yeah, the plan A is

[01:33:25] There's enough numbers to play it

[01:33:27] And the plan B is

[01:33:29] Okay, if a split is tenuous enough and that's what you're relying on

[01:33:31] Then okay we're trying to pile

[01:33:33] We're trying to do all those things

[01:33:35] But push votes with a very threatening public idol

[01:33:37] But do they think

[01:33:39] That it's what Venus, Hunter, Q and Liz

[01:33:41] Could all get together and put four

[01:33:43] Maybe

[01:33:45] I mean there's three of those four that

[01:33:47] Are trying to do something

[01:33:49] And then the other person is Venus

[01:33:51] Now it seems like they should probably trust Venus in this

[01:33:53] She definitely doesn't want to work with Nami

[01:33:55] But the conversations are being had

[01:33:57] And maybe they just

[01:33:59] Again that relationship breakdown with Venus

[01:34:01] Is so much that they don't want to rely on her

[01:34:03] In what would be a 3-3 split

[01:34:05] So they'd rather have four really clear numbers on a primary

[01:34:07] And Hunter's given them enough of an out

[01:34:09] Where they can be like oh he's bluffing

[01:34:11] So we haven't seen it

[01:34:13] So let's just take the chance on it

[01:34:15] And if that had been clearer and more pressing

[01:34:17] Maybe they wouldn't have taken that chance

[01:34:19] Because again the split was either

[01:34:21] Not pulled off right or

[01:34:23] Was too tenuous to be a perfect split

[01:34:25] So I really think

[01:34:27] That if that idol comes out

[01:34:29] We have a live tribal council and more votes are being pushed to Q

[01:34:31] I really do think that

[01:34:33] So in a perfect world

[01:34:35] Hunter, my winner pick

[01:34:37] My first draft pick, we had high hopes

[01:34:39] But it was pretty painful

[01:34:41] You talk about Tiff's implicit immunity

[01:34:43] I kind of like to talk a little bit about Yanu

[01:34:45] Who have been again

[01:34:47] Devolving more in the last couple of weeks

[01:34:49] And we'll talk about it

[01:34:51] But Tiff's implicit immunity to me was so fascinating

[01:34:53] Because it wasn't intentional

[01:34:55] Yes, I know

[01:34:57] I was going to say that

[01:34:59] She just literally felt

[01:35:01] She's like oh great now everyone knows about it

[01:35:03] Now I'm going to have to bloody play it

[01:35:05] Oh great

[01:35:07] And there was no subtext there at all

[01:35:09] So I take a little bit of the credit

[01:35:11] Away from a perfectly executed

[01:35:13] Implicit immunity game

[01:35:15] A month off

[01:35:17] Because

[01:35:19] It's again perfectly done

[01:35:21] But that's not the move

[01:35:23] As she's executing implicit immunity

[01:35:25] Which is telling everyone she's going to play it tonight

[01:35:27] The idol has been publicized without permission

[01:35:29] How is she going to use it?

[01:35:31] She's not saying I'm going to tell everyone I'm definitely going to play it

[01:35:33] And then I'm going to keep it

[01:35:35] That's implicit immunity

[01:35:37] She's saying I'm going to tell everyone I'm going to play it

[01:35:39] And then she's telling us and then I'm going to play it

[01:35:41] Because I don't want someone else to find it

[01:35:43] But, so she

[01:35:45] Read the situation

[01:35:47] Well enough that like she

[01:35:49] Wasn't getting votes

[01:35:51] That's where I think the gameplay comes in

[01:35:53] And the savviness of the play

[01:35:55] Yes I completely agree with you on that first part

[01:35:57] But the back end is having that social understanding of the group

[01:35:59] To know you know what

[01:36:01] I actually think I'm safe

[01:36:03] This is legit what everyone is talking about is actually on and then not playing it

[01:36:05] And I think that's the sign

[01:36:07] That it was a good move at the end of the day

[01:36:09] I think she's saying she's not playing it

[01:36:11] She's saying she's not going to do it

[01:36:13] She's saying she's not going to do it

[01:36:15] She's saying she's not going to do it

[01:36:17] She's saying she's not going to do it

[01:36:19] And then reading the room

[01:36:21] And understanding that it actually wasn't coming her way

[01:36:23] And then being able to save it again I think that was great

[01:36:25] Yeah I get the point where the idol would need to be played

[01:36:27] She's not a target

[01:36:29] And she doesn't play her idol

[01:36:31] And the threat of it has

[01:36:33] Helped her not be a target

[01:36:35] So there's true parts of that

[01:36:37] She's not saying because I'm in trouble

[01:36:39] She's like I just need to burn this thing

[01:36:41] But at that point she actually was in trouble

[01:36:43] There was a mystery

[01:36:45] Because she wasn't reading that

[01:36:47] And I do worry that

[01:36:49] Had the plan followed through

[01:36:51] Well she would have played

[01:36:53] But you know what I'm saying

[01:36:55] She wasn't playing it because she was in trouble

[01:36:57] She never thought she was in trouble

[01:36:59] And at a point she was in trouble

[01:37:01] So there was a mystery but I can't criticize her too much

[01:37:03] Because it didn't play out enough

[01:37:05] And then she gets a tribal council

[01:37:07] Which she still thinks she's not in trouble

[01:37:09] That turns around

[01:37:11] So a lot of the dynamics are being read well

[01:37:13] Wasn't there a funny conversation with Charlie?

[01:37:15] Didn't Charlie have a conversation with her

[01:37:17] And he went in there being like cool I'm just going to talk to her

[01:37:19] And then it ends up being like

[01:37:21] Have I convinced her to play her idol somehow?

[01:37:23] It was because she was like I'm definitely playing it

[01:37:25] And Charlie knows what you just said

[01:37:27] If he says no no no don't play it

[01:37:29] You'd be like but why?

[01:37:31] He can't say not to

[01:37:33] You're not burning an idol right?

[01:37:35] Go for it

[01:37:37] She could only read that as very concerning

[01:37:39] So there's nothing you can do

[01:37:41] What I loved about it

[01:37:43] She wasn't trying to threaten them like I'm going to play it

[01:37:45] It was so believable because it was natural

[01:37:47] And that's because it was

[01:37:49] Natural

[01:37:51] She was literally like I know I'm in trouble

[01:37:53] I'm just going to play it I just want to burn it

[01:37:55] It was so organic

[01:37:57] Because she wasn't threatening it

[01:37:59] It was true

[01:38:01] That's what they say that's what the best lie is

[01:38:03] A lie when you're in on it

[01:38:05] When you think it's the truth

[01:38:07] That's where you get other people to lie

[01:38:09] At that time she thought I'm not in trouble

[01:38:11] And I am literally burning this idol

[01:38:13] So believable

[01:38:15] And then at a point something changed which seemed so separate from everything that was happening

[01:38:17] It was about who's

[01:38:19] Unless we find out more

[01:38:21] Who's going to find it later

[01:38:23] So again that's very far removed from everything that was happening

[01:38:25] From the pressing target on her

[01:38:27] That's my

[01:38:29] And the lack of intentionality around actually threatening implicit immunity

[01:38:31] That's my criticism

[01:38:33] But in what she was doing

[01:38:35] Almost accidentally in her own believability

[01:38:37] In her own intention of what was playing the idol

[01:38:39] It was a perfectly

[01:38:41] I've never seen it was beautiful

[01:38:43] It was beautiful

[01:38:45] Maybe I'm being a little harsh

[01:38:47] She's not trying to

[01:38:49] Throw them off here so that she can keep it

[01:38:51] She's going to play it but then she doesn't

[01:38:53] So

[01:38:55] 10 points

[01:38:57] I think it was great

[01:38:59] Honestly it makes it

[01:39:01] So much more interesting

[01:39:03] When

[01:39:05] People are being honest

[01:39:07] And it's so funny

[01:39:09] When people are genuinely honest

[01:39:11] People pick up on it

[01:39:13] How could you not?

[01:39:15] They believed she was going to play it because she believed she was going to play it

[01:39:17] That's the best way to lie

[01:39:19] And then she didn't play it

[01:39:21] Trick your own brain

[01:39:23] That's survivor

[01:39:25] Well done

[01:39:27] Maybe not on purpose but still excellent

[01:39:29] Let's talk about the threat on her that she wasn't aware of

[01:39:31] And that is Kenzie

[01:39:33] Kenzie turning on Tiffany

[01:39:35] Is the most perplexing

[01:39:37] Of any of these

[01:39:39] It really is because

[01:39:41] Nami is crazy and Q is crazy

[01:39:43] But Kenzie I thought you were normal

[01:39:45] Tiff is

[01:39:47] Not turning on Kenzie

[01:39:49] Because Tiff doesn't feel threatened by Kenzie at all

[01:39:51] So at this point in the game

[01:39:53] Right now

[01:39:55] It is so much better to have someone on

[01:39:57] Because they have bonded through their Q trauma

[01:39:59] They've had Q trauma together

[01:40:01] And they have bonded over that

[01:40:03] And that is a real connection

[01:40:05] And that is something you can hold

[01:40:07] Oh mate we got through that

[01:40:09] It's wild, it's crazy

[01:40:11] I think Kenzie isn't

[01:40:13] Like I know again

[01:40:15] It comes down to like I've got to get rid of someone that's big

[01:40:17] And they've got an idol and everything like that

[01:40:19] I think Kenzie is doing enough

[01:40:21] I'm not confident in her own social skills

[01:40:23] And her own ability to know

[01:40:25] You know what, I've got connections with Ben

[01:40:27] I've got connections with Charlie

[01:40:29] I've made connections with Hunter

[01:40:31] I've built so many connections

[01:40:33] That once I get to the end game

[01:40:35] I'm going to be able to talk about all that

[01:40:37] And talk about how I skated through

[01:40:39] And got through and did this and did that

[01:40:41] And she is still thinking

[01:40:43] She's been caught up in this mentality

[01:40:45] This big move mentality, big move-itis

[01:40:47] Of I've got to have something that I put my flag in

[01:40:49] And I think what this season is doing to people

[01:40:51] It's getting in their heads, everyone's talking about it

[01:40:53] Everyone's like I need that head on the wall

[01:40:55] To say this was mine

[01:40:57] And you just don't need to do that

[01:40:59] It's wild that she was going out after this

[01:41:01] Because what's going to happen is

[01:41:03] Yes she's going to get rid of Tiff

[01:41:05] And then everyone's going to be like wow Kenzie that was a really good move

[01:41:07] Like you're the next target

[01:41:09] They can already smell blood in the water

[01:41:11] I think that

[01:41:13] I totally agree

[01:41:15] I think Kenzie has

[01:41:17] I would have married her to final travel counsel anyway

[01:41:19] She's super likeable, she has great relationships

[01:41:21] She's not relying on that

[01:41:23] Tiffany is also a big threat

[01:41:25] Who would be hard to beat at the end

[01:41:27] But she has time and she has options

[01:41:29] And I know that Tiffany has an idol

[01:41:31] And I know that I'm usually like go early rather than late

[01:41:33] But this is too early

[01:41:35] This isn't on the precipice

[01:41:37] Like well too early

[01:41:39] I would rather with Tiffany

[01:41:41] Go a little late

[01:41:43] And maybe the opportunity never comes

[01:41:45] I think that Tiffany is a great target

[01:41:47] I think that she's a great target

[01:41:49] She's a great target

[01:41:51] And I'm not sure if she's going to be a final travel counsel

[01:41:53] And rely on those relationships

[01:41:55] It's because she still has an out where it wouldn't be

[01:41:57] Definitely to go to the end with Tiffany

[01:41:59] That I feel like she could wait it out

[01:42:01] Because it puts her in a very vulnerable spot

[01:42:03] Like I think that her group on this is pretty tenuous

[01:42:05] Look at the people that she approaches

[01:42:07] It's Seega

[01:42:09] Who I think she's fully emboldening Seega

[01:42:11] This is great for Seega

[01:42:13] And I think Tiffany is a great target

[01:42:15] And she has a great team

[01:42:17] She's got a really good team

[01:42:19] Like she's a great team

[01:42:21] She's got a very good team

[01:42:23] And I think that's a great team

[01:42:25] And I don't know if that's going to happen with Soda

[01:42:27] And also Hunter is a part of that

[01:42:29] This is a very tenuous group

[01:42:31] That includes the next biggest target

[01:42:33] And the power players

[01:42:35] In a way that yeah, I think it's really going to embolden them

[01:42:37] And leave her pretty open

[01:42:39] If it even worked out

[01:42:41] Really unfortunate for Kenzie to lose Hunter like as much as we can credit what she was doing socially to make that possible

[01:42:48] Like losing Q loses nothing for her

[01:42:50] Like she's not working with Q that could be the placeholder vote to like get to the point and if Tiffany plays the idol

[01:42:55] What she was meant to now

[01:42:57] She's an open target losing Hunter is meant to be one of the key votes in a very slim

[01:43:02] Majority that you've created literally a five to four majority that is gonna get rid of Tiffany not taking Tiffany out that round

[01:43:07] And losing Hunter is like the opposite of what you want to happen

[01:43:10] Now you've actually lost a member from a group that was gonna pull off this move

[01:43:13] I think he was ended up being pretty key connection for her

[01:43:16] He has said in exit how much he trusted her how important that was relationship was like it just was

[01:43:22] Unfortunate at the point where Sega again the power players put the target on Hunter

[01:43:26] They come to her and she's like well, that's boring

[01:43:28] But she doesn't do anything or maybe doesn't even have the power to do anything because if she could push the queue

[01:43:33] Or somehow even get away even with

[01:43:36] Maybe being a little bit, you know worse at blindsiding Hunter if he can play an idol

[01:43:41] Without it really coming back on her and losing a ton of trust

[01:43:44] It would have been great to lose even Q over Hunter here. Um, if that's like I mean like again

[01:43:52] You know to enact a move I don't agree with and Tiffany but in general

[01:43:55] I think Hunter is good for her and Q's bad for her and maybe she can go forward with Hunter and make a

[01:43:59] Better move than targeting Tiffany. I don't know. I just

[01:44:02] For her I just don't think

[01:44:05] Yeah, I just don't think she could pull pull people off Hunter because they were just so

[01:44:11] It was so locked at that point. Yeah, I take I give her credit though for being able to backpedal the TIF

[01:44:20] Quite convincingly like that was so far out there so far exactly

[01:44:24] Yeah

[01:44:25] But as far as we've known from this from this episode that has not bitten her in the ass and that she was able

[01:44:30] To go okay. Yep. I'm pulling it back on this. Okay. Yep. What is it now?

[01:44:34] Yep, let's move forward and let's vote that and she's not creating any waves

[01:44:37] And so it does give her a little bit of time

[01:44:38] I think for her it is actually going to she can still put the target on TIF TIF still has an idol

[01:44:46] And so moving forward there is that second opportunity to have that crack and to have that scalp

[01:44:51] But yeah, I think I think it actually saved it

[01:44:54] I think if she went after TIF now it she would have probably been not far behind now having this bit more buffer

[01:44:59] I think there's probably a few other votes that she can get through now

[01:45:02] And you know what? She could win a couple of immunities as well

[01:45:05] Like she's she has those abilities now that hunters out of the game like who's who's winning these immunities now

[01:45:11] Is it Charlie Charlie? Yeah

[01:45:14] Q

[01:45:15] Charlie's been pretty close Venus has not been far away depends on it depends like she yeah

[01:45:19] She did win that the one balance challenge. Well, she came she won a group

[01:45:24] Yeah, yeah

[01:45:26] She um, it's interesting because it's like if she's gonna take the shot at Tiffany further down the road

[01:45:31] I would have liked to see her use a great social game that she has to build this coalition

[01:45:35] Which he already is doing but that was not what this was like just going to see go who are in control

[01:45:41] To take out Tiffany again. It just empowers

[01:45:45] The power players already. I would have liked to see

[01:45:49] Kenzie really rally with her connection something and really start to take out power players that way and that's like if you can keep hunter again

[01:45:56] And he has an idol just like a wink and a nod

[01:46:00] I don't know

[01:46:01] I don't even know that I had not even thought about that before this podcast

[01:46:03] I don't even know how much I'm advocating for it because I do think it's very risky that like oh

[01:46:07] Did you tell him or if you can get away with it and Hunter can stay the queue?

[01:46:11] Knowing that like really like she knows where the votes are going

[01:46:14] I'm knowing it's not gonna it's not gonna bounce back and hit her

[01:46:18] Yeah, it's very hard because I guess like he's you know with very little

[01:46:22] Agency is like targeting Ben or like who else is gonna get taken out in this way

[01:46:25] But yeah, she's definitely okay and it is high because again these people aren't working together

[01:46:29] But she has this great relationship with Ben

[01:46:31] Has a great thing with hunter if he can stick around if she can somehow get that to happen without

[01:46:35] Any I didn't I don't see the person I've only I've only I've only gathered this relationship with hunter from like post

[01:46:41] Stuff like I didn't I didn't see that in the guy. I didn't see this huge close relationship

[01:46:45] So it didn't make sense a little bit in the last episode

[01:46:47] I think you can kind of see him appealing to I mean the fact that you would even go to him for the Tiffany move

[01:46:52] It's quite important

[01:46:53] But when you talk to it when you hear like hunters exit press it is literally like oh, yeah

[01:46:57] I had such a great connection with her. We went off and did all this stuff together

[01:47:00] It was never shown and all these sort of things but that really wasn't there so I

[01:47:05] think that yeah the danger of the danger of hunter turning around and being like

[01:47:10] All thank you. Thank you so much Kenzie for giving me the heads up and just got getting out out like if that is put

[01:47:16] Out into the world that her whole game like implodes at that point. I'm not sold on her

[01:47:23] Destroying her game for Hunter even going as far as like hunter did for Tevin

[01:47:26] I'm not I'm not sold on it. I just thought about it now in this podcast, but

[01:47:31] Like I wouldn't say to hunt to play the idol. I just might live worse

[01:47:35] I just might be like you know, but then again, he's not gonna trust her

[01:47:38] Like he needs to know that she it's to be fair. Yeah, he needs to not feel like he was lying to him

[01:47:42] It is hard to pull off. I just think in a perfect plan

[01:47:44] Your plan is lying badly to someone so they see through you so today. I haven't thought it through

[01:47:51] I don't know. I wouldn't put my neck out that much for Hunter

[01:47:54] I think that's what it is, but I also think it's so unfortunate that hunter went

[01:47:59] It's so unfortunate that she couldn't like definitely wielded back to lose Q which is so nothing for her

[01:48:05] versus because then like now it's like cooking with some gas like Ben's big hunters big like she's this is like

[01:48:10] That's like social capital and and then like let's start going to like the Venus's and the Liz's

[01:48:14] Let's do that rather than going to see that every time

[01:48:19] You know have all the riches and all the control

[01:48:22] That's what it is for me, but it's a pretty different game

[01:48:24] I don't I don't think that I'm saying she should have got out gone out on a limb theme

[01:48:27] I just thought it was so unfortunate when Ben's coming to her and is like

[01:48:30] Hunter and now knowing how close that relationship was

[01:48:35] They just there was kind of nothing she could do. There's nothing without really putting herself out there

[01:48:39] But I wish you didn't have to I wish I wish they didn't call with a name if that makes word

[01:48:43] She's worried that on the back end like coming back to camp

[01:48:47] She's now put herself in with Hunter and they are the bottom of the barrel like yeah

[01:48:53] Everyone else like you're putting your but then again, she's targeting Tiff

[01:48:56] So you're targeting all these people around it

[01:48:59] Who are you then going to work with like yeah, why are you going to work with Hunter and Tiff?

[01:49:06] Yeah, it's inconsistent because it's like she says do you want to play a big game and take swings or not?

[01:49:11] So like the big game taking swings with Tiffany and that might be protecting

[01:49:16] Potential allies and like key connections that are like solely reliant on you

[01:49:19] So maybe you do take big swings and maybe you do, you know have the risk Hunter like don't tell anyone

[01:49:23] I told you like if anything let's build it up

[01:49:25] Like, you know winners have done that D has done that yeah and pulled it off and that's a winning move

[01:49:30] So like if you're taking the big swings and you want to form a coalition against Tiffany

[01:49:34] I would do it differently. I would have gone to different people but I maybe I would be protecting them out back again

[01:49:38] Maybe I would be protecting Hunter

[01:49:40] But then again, you want to just like fold in with the majority that's fine, too

[01:49:44] But that's not what she was doing with Tiffany. So it's inconsistent what we don't know though

[01:49:48] Is this relationship with Ben?

[01:49:50] That is obviously pretty deep and they've highlighted that they've shown that yeah in the show, right?

[01:49:54] So maybe there is another conversation there where she's talking to Ben. She's like, hey those two

[01:50:00] Those two are really tight and they're not gonna take they're not gonna want to take you to the end

[01:50:05] They're gonna go with each other

[01:50:06] So your you and me have this secret little thing going on will pull in one other person like a Venus and you mean

[01:50:11] Venus will go to the end together. So there might be a whole nother thing

[01:50:15] Underneath that because I think there's still something to play with this whole Ben

[01:50:18] Kenzie relationship. I think that's gonna come to the front. Yeah, I think that

[01:50:23] In a world where she does lose what was clearly a key relationship

[01:50:27] You better hope there are enough other key relationships, you know where that doesn't matter as much

[01:50:32] Yeah, because otherwise I do think it's pretty unfortunate

[01:50:34] You mentioned Ben I want to talk about Ben because that means I can kind of end with a bit of like a cute

[01:50:38] Discussion which is like the perfect way to come and then and then a very long cheesy statement

[01:50:43] But um, let's talk about Ben because I continue to love Ben. I think that he is such a unique

[01:50:51] character

[01:50:52] And

[01:50:53] There's a great secret scene which was from I don't know everything really folded into each other

[01:50:57] but I think last week yeah after the Tim vote very upset to have lost him and

[01:51:02] Maria comes at him and is like did Tim have the odd or do you have the odd or like, you know?

[01:51:06] she's very much on the idle still the seeker idol and it was not a good moment for Maria because the read was bad and

[01:51:12] She was also too harsh with him and he was feeling really vulnerable and he's being really honest with her

[01:51:16] she's like what was your plan with him and he was like we were chilling and

[01:51:19] What was so interesting about the scene was I think it kind of gave a really I would really recommend everyone go

[01:51:24] Check this secret scene out because I think that it gave a really

[01:51:27] Interesting look into all three of these characters like for Maria

[01:51:30] There was like some pitfalls there where I think she's otherwise been actually really great Charlie comes in comforts

[01:51:35] Ben so I think that that was an interesting kind of character portrayal of him and then

[01:51:40] Is so self-aware about the player that he is he says it to us

[01:51:43] He does it all in music metaphors and you know, like when the band breaks up and he's talking about Sega

[01:51:48] but it shows like he said he's like I

[01:51:51] Hyped up seeker. I was this great kind of hype guy for Sega and that's like the social game

[01:51:55] I've really credited that I think was a big part of Sega success

[01:51:59] And I think it's like the perfect way

[01:52:00] I think I said a really like buildable way to play a pre-emerge in the new era

[01:52:03] Just be social don't be cutting into things don't turn him number one ally

[01:52:09] But he's almost too pure for the game to build it into something offensive and

[01:52:14] Yeah, I like I really think that that we see it like in this in this post merge

[01:52:19] He has these like really intrinsic connections with Ken V. It's very real

[01:52:23] But how much can he wield it from like a strategic perspective and to use it as social capital actually?

[01:52:31] You just have money but like you don't know where to shop got nothing to spend it on

[01:52:35] Get on to you Ben. Come on, mate. Like yeah

[01:52:39] It's just I just don't feel like he has a clear and like I don't know what his path to the end is

[01:52:45] I don't understand

[01:52:46] Where what his goal is who his targets are or what he wants to do?

[01:52:50] Like that just hasn't come through to me and I'm I'm pretty sure that's because he it's not clear in his own head

[01:52:55] At this point, he's just that one of those plays that makes connections with people and yeah

[01:52:59] It feels real and yeah, like it's gonna be hard for people to and look it's not everyone like he said himself

[01:53:06] He's like human Q got off to a terrible start. They just didn't see eye-to-eye

[01:53:10] They just weren't on the same page, but he can have those connections with your Kenzie and things like that

[01:53:14] I just he'd look he dropped a Jurassic Park

[01:53:18] Reference which I was a big fan. So big big big points have been there

[01:53:22] Um, I'm not sure unless he put something together

[01:53:26] He just doesn't seem like the kind of person that's corralling votes. It's being like guys. This is what

[01:53:31] Yeah, this is this is the plan he's just going to be that person there that that people will want to bring in to be

[01:53:37] Like oh yeah, Ben. What do you think of this? So yeah, I like just yes. Does he beat Venus in the end?

[01:53:43] Yes, does he beat a couple these other people that are less likely probably? Yeah, so I don't he's a really interesting character

[01:53:50] He's he was my winners picks out a guy. I'd soda and been at the same

[01:53:55] Before I knew anything I love it. I'm sad that it's just it's missing that killer instinct

[01:54:00] But it's interesting because the lack of killer instinct is what makes it

[01:54:04] That social like like I think that like even like Stephen said this was like someone like D

[01:54:09] like they felt so connected her because she was that loyal to them and

[01:54:13] If she wasn't gonna be as loyal to them, like she might not have gone that loyalty back

[01:54:16] You know what I'm saying? So like with with Reba with the Reba for

[01:54:20] Like she goes to the end with them and had she been wanting to cut them

[01:54:23] She might have never ever even had the connections to get to even that D D had that killer instinct underneath

[01:54:29] Oh gee has the killer but she she didn't but she'd never cut Julie and she never cut off. No

[01:54:33] No, but she was nasty in a way that Ben is not

[01:54:37] Yeah, and Ben doesn't have her toes either. So yeah, well that we know of it's been a lot less been toe-contact

[01:54:44] To be fair, we are kind of unaware

[01:54:47] You know, you don't say it true. We know for sure

[01:54:50] But yeah, I think that it's interesting in that way in that it's a yeah a pure social game

[01:54:55] That is unstrategic with that's what makes it pure and great

[01:54:58] But then you can't wield it like he just wants to make relationships for the relationship

[01:55:02] It's like he's like the anti Venus like he's not doing it with an agenda. It's like your own survivor

[01:55:05] He just wants to make friends like

[01:55:07] It's just fascinating to me

[01:55:09] And what's also fascinating to me is that he's misread by everyone else because they can't believe someone would be so pure because

[01:55:14] They never would be so like as an example of the split tribal council

[01:55:17] When he's saying he'll basically be you know, the decoy for Hunter and he could go home and they don't believe him

[01:55:22] Yeah, I don't believe cuz they're like that would I mean you know, but they're like no one would it's like then would and even Maria

[01:55:27] It's like also you and Tim were just chilling. He's like, yeah, she's like no you weren't it's like Ben was that best

[01:55:32] You wouldn't but that's why you don't understand it. So I

[01:55:36] Just I feel like he's really enigmatic in a way. That's very very interesting

[01:55:40] But I don't there's not more there that can build it if he gets to the end

[01:55:44] It would be it would be passive and it would be kind of accidental and it would ride on a great social game

[01:55:50] But it's not something that he can wield

[01:55:52] It's something could probably speak to at the end

[01:55:53] But it's it's would be on like ability like I don't think it can be on on more than that. Yeah, Q

[01:56:00] Man, then they and then Q

[01:56:07] My god, where do even start with Q I don't even know where to he turned on Tiffany

[01:56:13] Yeah, yeah

[01:56:15] So again, he has this

[01:56:18] He's just understanding of his his plus one alliance and if anyone if anyone targets anyone in the plus one

[01:56:24] they're dead to him and

[01:56:26] People continually do that and he ends up having to get rid of every single person in his alliance

[01:56:32] Why would he

[01:56:34] Look and look where everyone's talked about him wanting to quit and everything like that

[01:56:38] but again, there is a sincerity to that that was just overlooked by everyone else and

[01:56:44] He believes it he this is the amazing thing about Q is that he can convince himself in his head of anything and

[01:56:52] he can sell that to anyone because

[01:56:56] it's it's it's now real to him and

[01:56:59] Should he have gone should he have blown up tips game and told everyone about an idol? Definitely not

[01:57:05] It's just it's you've got people that you've gone through this experience where your tribes been decimated

[01:57:11] You're in the middle the tickets rate like this is

[01:57:13] You've seen this work before

[01:57:16] you've seen this exact scenario work in a previous season and

[01:57:20] For whatever reason now you wanting to blow this up and it just didn't it just didn't make any sense to me

[01:57:27] Like I just couldn't I just yeah, I just I just couldn't wrap my head around

[01:57:31] How this imploded so absolutely beautifully and completely?

[01:57:36] In such a relatively short space that like he he really was calling the shots

[01:57:41] He really everything was revolving around him for such a large part of game and then to just go from that to like bottom of the pile

[01:57:47] this is sort of

[01:57:49] reminiscent of Mike Holloway like

[01:57:51] Mike was going along and then all of a sudden he was at the very bottom of absolutely everything and

[01:57:57] There's still a chance that he could definitely win his way out and all the way to the end

[01:58:01] But it's yeah, it's such a unique person. I don't think we've touched on a bit throughout this whole thing, but

[01:58:06] It's wild. He's wild and he's such good TV and he's really elevated the entire season

[01:58:11] Yeah, the you talk about like the power that he wielded. I mean earlier in the episode that he

[01:58:17] attempted to quit

[01:58:19] Charlie said he was like in a job interview with him and now like not two episodes later

[01:58:24] Charlie's like the one fully in control of the boy. Oh, you see yo now

[01:58:28] Yeah, and in Q is like begging. Yeah jump back. It's wild

[01:58:32] I know that mean that sounds like an interesting movie like there's your movie like that that um, that happened in an episode and a half

[01:58:38] That

[01:58:40] Happen literally from tribal council last time to now and I know that it's all felt like a lot because I've you know

[01:58:44] Watch these four episodes in the last three days

[01:58:46] But it really was that quick where now

[01:58:48] Charlie decides which side of the split if Q's going home and literally he was appealing to him to get into his group

[01:58:54] So recently now recently like so he you know his plans and Tiffany's plans don't

[01:59:01] fully align

[01:59:03] Because yes, Tiffany is not a good member of the six

[01:59:06] The

[01:59:07] Hallowed hollow thing she's not an employee of the month at the six

[01:59:11] No

[01:59:11] Yeah

[01:59:11] I mean like she vaguely mentions Maria and to be fair is like a big part of what will eventually be the Tevin boy like

[01:59:16] That is proven to the champion. She's like we're voting out Tevin

[01:59:19] So any fears he had about her as a six are bad and this heaven vote for him isn't good

[01:59:23] Like it does leave him on the bottom

[01:59:25] But to be fair Tiffany's not the one pushing that actually the only one looping him in he really needed her

[01:59:29] so yeah

[01:59:32] If someone is looping you in at that point

[01:59:35] Something that everyone else knows about this except for you and Hunter and they're looping you in it's like that

[01:59:43] That is the is is the cry to be like this person is invested in you and invest in you in the game

[01:59:48] And they want you to go further than the game. Yeah, and then to just throw all that under the bus

[01:59:52] Yeah, crazy

[01:59:53] Yes, and the person he protected Maria

[01:59:58] Gave away the I don't information

[02:00:01] instantly

[02:00:03] What what priority is being given yet if your plans with your key ally don't align which they didn't talk that out like let's get

[02:00:09] To a point where we know we're prioritizing instead of being like she's done and it's so interesting as well because

[02:00:17] It comes off the back of they've had to

[02:00:19] You know, they came in as like the young with three but they had power

[02:00:22] But they you know, it's a smaller group and everyone else is imploding which is great

[02:00:24] The rule should be you don't implode maybe we don't it's it's kind of like what if they were tied in V rebels

[02:00:29] It's like you're only like a pace with each other because you're all turning on each other

[02:00:32] Like these tribes have only been at pace because everyone they've all imploded in their own ways

[02:00:38] And then you know, some people have been able to rally from that but like really implosions across the board

[02:00:43] But yeah, I feel like with with Q he just come back from voting out Tim now

[02:00:49] It was unfortunate like to have to cut off a member of the six

[02:00:52] I kind of feel like maybe they could have still taken out Ben and been like Tim

[02:00:56] He wasn't in the six and still tried with Tim

[02:00:59] But they are coming back with now a five of ten and having to recruit new members relying on people someone like Charlie

[02:01:05] Who's like again?

[02:01:06] This is not a thing and it was a tenuous thing

[02:01:09] Anyway, someone like Liz who's outright doesn't go with it. So they're already in a pre tenuous spot

[02:01:14] Possibly because they were a little too hasty with him

[02:01:16] Possibly because Tim was so not in that it kind of spoke for itself that might be on Tim either way

[02:01:21] It didn't leave them in a good spot

[02:01:22] And now we're cutting into the six on a key ally

[02:01:25] With so much information like so much leverage to give to people that were clearly wrong to trust and who were not nearly as invested

[02:01:32] Which was Maria and Charlie like so much of that is a mystery and so much of that is the wrong priorities

[02:01:37] So some of this has to go to tip that because Tiff mentioned

[02:01:41] To Maria to target Maria to Tevin right and then Tevin instantly goes back to Q and tells

[02:01:46] I think you said it's a Q

[02:01:48] No, I think she said to Q I

[02:01:51] Think you said to Q

[02:01:53] Did she think so? I thought this was the one before and she mentioned it then and it got back to Q

[02:02:00] But Tiff needs to

[02:02:02] She just needs to get like the understanding with someone like you, you know that he needs to be the one banging the drum

[02:02:08] Yeah

[02:02:09] He needs to be the one that you can see how he talked to both of them

[02:02:12] Like he comes back to them and he goes like for the Tim Ben vote. It was okay. It's definitely Tim

[02:02:18] Okay, what do you want? It's been no, no

[02:02:20] Let's go back and just back and forth and like talking at them instead of actually having discussion and Tiff said it says that no

[02:02:25] Confessional is like we should all be discussing this as a group and then come to consensus

[02:02:29] We shouldn't be told this but if you know Q is like that then you any any plans that you're gonna put out

[02:02:35] Into the wild you need to sort of talk them out with him first and to get him to feel invested in them

[02:02:41] this these can't be out in the wild and

[02:02:45] That's one of the things why evidently the Q was just that audit she's targeting people in our group

[02:02:49] Yep, she's dead to us. Let's let's let's kill her and let's get out of here when it's the one person

[02:02:54] That's trying to support you. It's the one person that's letting you in on information

[02:02:57] It's again people are doing these things that just don't help them in the game and it's very it's good

[02:03:03] He's so frustrating at times

[02:03:05] But that's what Q wants to do

[02:03:07] He wants and if you're gonna kill people in your lines who's replacing that person who's the next person coming in?

[02:03:14] Like that was the worst part of the six

[02:03:16] By the way is how transient it is and not just like we'll cut out our own but then we'll replace you like we got

[02:03:21] Another speaker. It's the same thing to us, you know

[02:03:24] What's your name Charlie? Yep, you're in

[02:03:33] And then I think Kenzie's relationship and you know that conversation after the quit where Kenzie just had enough of Q and she

[02:03:40] Just basically draws a line. She said I'm not working with you

[02:03:43] I'm not I've got nothing that I need to say to you and I don't need to talk to you anymore and that is

[02:03:48] like

[02:03:50] Evidently, you should never really just tell someone straight out what that did they are dead to you and then

[02:03:55] Like you just shouldn't do that. But ultimately it's got to that point where where Q is just yeah

[02:04:01] They're just they're just so passionate about like moving on past him now

[02:04:05] But has he now transitioned into oh, he said this quit no one's gonna vote for him at the end

[02:04:10] Let's hanging around but now you've got too many of these people you've got Venus

[02:04:13] You've got Q these people are starting to stack up now that everyone wants to take to the end

[02:04:17] And that's why I see this Liz QV getting to the actual ends because they're all gonna hang around

[02:04:22] This is how I see it happening. Yeah, there's too many of them. Well, that was a big part of

[02:04:28] The the separation and that Tiffany was like why we going for Venus, but then wasn't like

[02:04:34] But then like and clearly then I also don't mean we're going for Liz. We're not going to Kenzie

[02:04:38] I'm not going for Ben. Like so I want to take out a big players again

[02:04:42] We made an alliance of big players

[02:04:43] So that is it's a different game plan than Q had and what saying that they'd weren't diverging

[02:04:47] I'm just saying that maybe you don't respond to that by you know, just you know

[02:04:54] The crazy thing about with Q is that he like ascribes to like a very strict code

[02:05:00] That he assumes everyone else will understand

[02:05:04] It's like I took out Tim but that made sense because Tim was coming for Hunter

[02:05:08] You are my number one ally, but you want to maybe take up Maria will take out Tevin

[02:05:12] So I now have permission to come to you and the reason that you see that is so

[02:05:18] Crazy to me is not even in the way that it's done

[02:05:21] But in the arguments often like I don't think either of them as you said should be like fighting

[02:05:25] So loudly in front of everyone on the mat at tribal like yeah, no, we don't endorse but within that

[02:05:32] Why is he so defensive like that you you were turning on your number one ally for no real reason and

[02:05:38] You told about the idol you've been caught red-handed because of this I kind of out of game thing with the quit

[02:05:42] Which we'll talk about like her vaguely going against Maria does not excuse your actions, but he feels like it does

[02:05:48] It's like no. No, no, you don't understand you are going against Maria and she's like who's Maria like what?

[02:05:52] What do you talk? How is that enough of a justification? He's like no again this strict model code

[02:05:58] You broke it so it's justified and she's like no that's not anything to turn on your number one ally

[02:06:02] And she's completely right but like him within this moral code

[02:06:05] He can't just be like I was like people should apologize more but like yeah, you're like, I'm sorry

[02:06:08] He should just be like I lost my mind that day or that round and who could begrudge him

[02:06:15] Who would be like no you seem sane like it's actually like yeah

[02:06:18] I don't I wanted to quit I was out of I was like Scott level out of the game

[02:06:23] Not like yeah beyond it and then I don't know that there's forgiveness but maybe

[02:06:27] You know, there's less accountability somehow but justify and defending it to the like no you were the reason so I turned on you

[02:06:34] Not cool if you go back and and Charlie does this perfectly if you go back a few episodes where Charlie tells

[02:06:41] Venus that he was the one that voted for her right and the cue comes and reprimands him and it's like mate

[02:06:48] What are you doing? We had them all funny

[02:06:50] Really funny on the bench by the way, like when you see how plenty of like Charlie don't be too emotional

[02:06:54] Then you know where it goes it plays in a very funny way. Yeah, but Charlie does that perfectly

[02:06:59] He just falls on his sword. He's like, oh my god, of course. Yes. I'm really sorry man

[02:07:03] Yes, of course. That's exactly what we should have done

[02:07:06] Damn it. Yeah, like my bad. I'm really sorry and then cue goes it's like okay. It's okay

[02:07:11] we'll get over it that is the perfect example of how you treat that situation and

[02:07:16] Could could cue have come back to there and been like man, I was freaked out I was panicking

[02:07:21] I didn't know what to do that people came at me and I just I just sort of said that you had an idol and

[02:07:26] It came out and then it just got out of control and then they told each other and I'm just really sorry and

[02:07:30] I've really blown this and look what can we do? How can we move forward?

[02:07:35] Maybe just a little just just just just one tiny crocodile to you

[02:07:39] But like that's how you should approach that situation

[02:07:43] Rather than just torpedoing your own game at this point. Yeah

[02:07:48] Like because even in the midst of the quit

[02:07:52] He says so he's like you wouldn't have had enough votes. They were coming for you. They be me

[02:07:59] So in that he's almost trying to like push the narrative that the quit

[02:08:04] Was for her and it's not like he knows Tevin's going like, you know at that point, that's obviously a line

[02:08:10] There's something there I'm not saying it wasn't it for Tevin it was definitely to protect Tevin

[02:08:14] Oh was to protect Tevin, um, but he's saying to Tiffany like are you you weren't gonna have the key point

[02:08:20] I think it could be like, you know, the guilt I felt was

[02:08:23] You that I'd done this to you and I try to quit. I feel pretty bad about it

[02:08:28] You know, like there's something I don't think it's gonna work

[02:08:29] But like I think that that's a lot better than like quit doubling down on it

[02:08:33] I think with the the quit that's what was it quit. Yeah

[02:08:36] I'm really glad that I didn't have to be part of the discourse as well about whether it was a quit. Um,

[02:08:41] It was I will now speak about

[02:08:44] It was always a quick I felt like for a couple of reasons firstly hadn't been a move what move

[02:08:50] It made no sense as a move like to cause chaos to push on to it easier non-teven vote

[02:08:55] Like there's nothing so the idea the idea was

[02:09:00] Like not that it was this but I suppose the idea is you turn it into a live tribal however

[02:09:05] You want however you can and you try and get everyone to the point of okay

[02:09:09] Let's just go an easy vote then if this is yes, let's just go Venus and it's an easy vote and yes

[02:09:17] That's very indirect

[02:09:19] But it's ton of risk that blew up his whole game with a lot of information floating around

[02:09:23] He had just turned on what would have been a failed plan against his ally

[02:09:27] So that information a lot of people know about it he told verifiable information about the idol

[02:09:32] Maybe we don't open up the communication channels in a really chaotic way

[02:09:36] If it had been a move that would have been much worse than just like emotionally actually quitting like that would have been a thousand

[02:09:42] Times work, right? Correct. But with Q

[02:09:45] You know, we've seen it we've seen that he's he has these like intense emotional responses

[02:09:50] He's so hard on himself. He puts pressure on himself with stuff

[02:09:53] I said it's been Chekhov's quit since to Lindsay since it was like we never quit but then sometimes I can't

[02:09:57] I actually I absolutely love that tweet. That was my favorite way of this whole

[02:10:05] It has been that

[02:10:07] so

[02:10:08] It was always I felt like just so emotional and here's why I don't think it was to protect him

[02:10:13] And like I think it's been said and I think even the plays in the game was saying it

[02:10:16] Like it's not to protect heaven necessarily or even like hunter

[02:10:20] He'd thrown hunter under the bus or definitely not Tiffany it was himself like the game is slipping

[02:10:25] He's so hard on himself. The beat the ball is rolling away from him

[02:10:29] He goes out of control at the bottom and he was with tevin going even without the quit

[02:10:34] Like he still has like hopefully the tiffany connection

[02:10:37] He still can build something back. It's certainly better than you know

[02:10:39] What happened if he doesn't try to quit but like that would be a better situation

[02:10:43] But yeah, like he's aligned with heaven like that's like the stronghold of the six is being turned against as we've discussed from like a

[02:10:49] Charlie maria, um, yeah from their standpoint. So, um

[02:10:53] Yeah, I just felt like he was doing it for himself because the game was slipping away

[02:10:56] I don't think that he can tell me that ever because again, he's going to convince himself of whatever

[02:11:00] And I don't know that it's so passed out in his mind

[02:11:02] I'm just saying in me psychoanalyzing his emotional responses to things and how it was going and what i've seen

[02:11:08] From the tv character. I think that's what was going on

[02:11:15] It's so

[02:11:18] When was the last time when was the last time you've had someone at tribal council say i'm quitting everyone vote for me

[02:11:24] And it's not happening. Oh and not happen. No, it did not happen

[02:11:29] Yeah, like it it it does usually happen

[02:11:32] It usually is a point in the game where people are you know what?

[02:11:34] Yeah, and then another race situations happen now. No one will ever do that ever again. Yeah, but

[02:11:40] Like there just shows an understanding of like where the the rest of the casts know where q's heads at

[02:11:46] Where they're like, you know what? I think charlotte even says it he goes, you know what? No

[02:11:50] No, yeah, he can come back to camp and deal with that. Yeah for the briefest moment

[02:11:55] I felt like credit to q that he

[02:11:57] He even says it he's like, I guess I failed at getting voted out

[02:12:00] But now I do like then it really was like an fu to q it was the fu

[02:12:05] That's all like that's how you spell that. Um

[02:12:07] To like they would it was no like it's not on your terms

[02:12:11] You like you don't get to control the vote

[02:12:13] He was like i'm gonna control the vote of his last thing I do even if it's for me

[02:12:16] Rather than let this fall and I really do think that that's what it was. It was a crazy tv moment

[02:12:22] um watching it live at the la party when um

[02:12:26] Oh when tiffany's told about the idol and then tells kenzie

[02:12:30] It was like a gasp went out in the whole room. It was a really fun one to watch with everyone

[02:12:35] I yeah, I really loved that episode

[02:12:37] and um, it's been a really fun month in general, but

[02:12:41] Yeah, I mean that's why it's so interesting because cues have a play who not only like will emotionally

[02:12:46] Quit in that way, but you could also analyze is it was it a move and then you can like

[02:12:50] justify it to himself and this like it's just

[02:12:54] It's great television

[02:12:57] I don't know. I don't think this is a q is an incredible television. Like i'm sad my birthday is 10 months away

[02:13:03] I want the q cameo. I want the cumeo

[02:13:05] like I

[02:13:07] I'm jealous that rob got it even though I don't know if you heard did you see the yeah?

[02:13:12] Yeah, I feel like that would destroy me

[02:13:14] It was good mate. If q comes at you he comes at you full force

[02:13:18] Yeah, and you know, i'm really good at handling that kind of stuff, but I um

[02:13:22] But I want it like I still I still really want to stop wishing your birthday closer. I already know

[02:13:28] Middle age is coming up fast. Yeah

[02:13:31] It's like the thing where you know like your twitter got hacked

[02:13:32] It's like i'm saying that I want my birthday to be closer so I can get a message from a player

[02:13:38] Yelling at me. I love all of those things like

[02:13:42] Uh q we are blessed to have q I really think

[02:13:46] And it's different because I I compare them to like a carolyn and a maryam, but it's heavier

[02:13:50] But it's also lighter and it and it works within and it builds the intensity of the season. It does like

[02:13:57] But I would love

[02:13:58] Like if it elevates the whole season for me it does and we said that a couple of times it

[02:14:03] It elevates everyone around him to have to play that game as well

[02:14:06] But how crazy would be if he just does go? Okay. I'm gonna start winning all the challenges now when he starts winning

[02:14:13] Yeah, I'd love it because he was my my last draft

[02:14:17] Um q pull it out like come on make it work do it please but work with the q

[02:14:23] You know, I um, yeah, he's great. I'm

[02:14:26] I'm

[02:14:27] Obsessed with with all of it. It's so good the alphabet game and but the thing is as well

[02:14:33] It's because I like relate him like obviously I would be the same way

[02:14:36] Yeah, like am I not the q of the draft being like what are the rules?

[02:14:42] Let's really nail it down

[02:14:43] I think I just see a lot of myself in here. I want to quit things all the time

[02:14:46] I'm also the kind of person who just want to quit randomly q we're the same

[02:14:51] Kindred spirits this is this is great

[02:14:54] I'm on hinge

[02:14:55] Yeah

[02:14:56] I think that might be it

[02:14:58] So many good things like when he said that um

[02:15:01] Like hunter being the best challenge competitor was debatable

[02:15:05] Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, debatable. Yeah, there's so much gold there. It's just there's so much. Let's see where so he's 29

[02:15:12] He's only 29. Wow

[02:15:15] The best thing about q as well is that it snuck up on you

[02:15:18] Like at the beginning you didn't realize he was this person but there were signs

[02:15:23] I think he would be fascinating on a rewatch because you'd be like, hmm

[02:15:26] I see that now in a way that didn't jump out to me as much before

[02:15:30] But now would be clear and then it builds and now we're here and it's iconic

[02:15:34] Look at the uni tribe though at the start like yeah the the characters that are on that

[02:15:40] Like there's no wonder that he was in the background initially because of everything everyone else

[02:15:45] You've got julie ski you've got every menu as well like these these are wild characters that are taking up a lot of screen time

[02:15:51] And you've got q in the background of those characters surely that's they've done that on purpose that tribe breakdown

[02:15:57] In hindsight like lulu level when you look at yeah. Yeah, exactly

[02:16:01] Yeah, exactly. They they put this tribe together to implode and be like, okay, who's who's gonna be left?

[02:16:06] It's cute at the end of the day. I love it

[02:16:09] They like they probably they like put everyone on a scale of like one to 18 from like most

[02:16:15] Like emotionally regulated to lease

[02:16:18] And then they put the bottom six all in one tribe instead of like spreading it evenly. Yeah

[02:16:24] Oh, that's 100 right? Yeah, exactly

[02:16:26] And they're like this will be excellent television and for a while it really wasn't but really it has come around

[02:16:30] Um, do we have more before we get to a long cheesy segment?

[02:16:34] Oh

[02:16:35] Is there anything else there? Let's have a look

[02:16:38] No

[02:16:41] No

[02:16:42] I think we've

[02:16:43] That's pretty good

[02:16:45] Okay. Well, we'll talk about it in our very long cheesy segment. Yeah, that's pretty good actually

[02:16:50] All right, take it away jacob seger winestien and mc color one two three

[02:17:03] Okay, so this is what happened with the chizzy

[02:17:05] Yeah, you know obviously for the integrity of the chizzy we needed points every week

[02:17:09] So omer and I did the purgatory week when we were in I just found any survivor player could get my hands

[02:17:14] Just grabbed them and said who do you want to get points?

[02:17:16] Yeah, yeah

[02:17:16] Yeah, we were at the top of casaloba in toronto and we did a video that was that's still on my twitter

[02:17:21] You can go watch it and on instagram. Well, it's gone now from instagram that last one day, but

[02:17:26] Um, we did the purgatory week and then the second week for the split tribal. Yeah, I did it with zach

[02:17:32] Yeah, so I saw the exact what I didn't see the omar one though

[02:17:34] Okay, good because i'm gonna go through all the points for anyone who wasn't just like attached to my social media and how dare you

[02:17:40] And then we're gonna do the last two weeks

[02:17:43] and

[02:17:44] We're gonna have some charts that i've every time like I because i'm not again

[02:17:49] I wasn't like consuming it watching it like randy would send me the charts

[02:17:53] Rob's fact check would do the charts and be like wow, that's interesting like my own chart. Yeah

[02:17:59] I don't remember voting that yeah exactly. Yeah, and I had to go back and watch the videos to be like where were we?

[02:18:03] I hope this podcast has been okay for people we've gone through a lot but it I think we but now we're caught up

[02:18:08] You know now we're caught up on this season. It is it is what it is

[02:18:12] There's there's a lot of information. There's a lot of stuff there

[02:18:14] But I think the people listening to it are gonna still enjoy it like there's a lot going on

[02:18:20] I think people enjoy we've covered we've covered so much. Yeah, we I mean we have it's been we have covered a lot

[02:18:26] Yeah, exactly. It's been really good. Okay, let's do so much chili

[02:18:30] So omer and I because when like seagulls mariah, that's the week

[02:18:34] So omer gave three and also a lot of these are really bad in hindsight

[02:18:37] I actually have written here like eek and oof many times in points

[02:18:42] Now that we're gonna read retroactively you're like no, that's not how it yeah, okay

[02:18:45] You're about to see so, okay

[02:18:47] So like the thesis for that week with seagulls mariah was that seagull had done really badly and yanu

[02:18:53] And the six and nami had done really well now you see how this is going

[02:18:57] So omer gave three to q for getting what he wanted and he really pushed mariah

[02:19:01] We get two to tiffany for switching it to seagr and he gave one to hunter for his part in the power group and the

[02:19:07] idol find

[02:19:09] I also was crediting like those main power groups that all went so well after that and I gave three to q

[02:19:15] targeting mo

[02:19:17] Tevin um for being like the king of nami and I felt like nami was doing so well so well

[02:19:22] oh wow

[02:19:23] Yeah, i'm really glad I didn't podcast this week. Um, and um

[02:19:27] And then I gave one to hunter for the idol and his part in the group and I gave an honorable mention to charlie for the throne vote

[02:19:34] Yeah, yeah. Yeah

[02:19:36] Okay, zach and I when we were at um

[02:19:39] downtown disney that gave three to charlie

[02:19:43] For this is this age is a little better gave three to charlie for surviving the split tribal

[02:19:48] Then he gave two to hunter for surviving the split tribal with his idol, which actually didn't

[02:19:54] Actually age as well as it shouldn't and then one to venus for

[02:19:58] surviving and taking the credit which he liked

[02:20:01] Um, and I gave three to charlie for his social game because it wasn't just that like nami split a lot of people were

[02:20:07] Also, like I love charlie, you know, like there was a social game there

[02:20:10] um for his survival

[02:20:12] As well and for getting out a good target. I gave two to kenzie

[02:20:15] Um for the ben connection in that episode for the way people were perceiving her like q like gives this whole like

[02:20:20] Kind of standing ovation to kenzie at that tribal council. Yeah, yeah

[02:20:23] um, and then I felt like it was better for her getting out tim when again, I thought it was kind of unfortunate for like

[02:20:28] the tiffanys and the

[02:20:30] Q's who again maybe was on tim but still not great to have to cut into the six surely

[02:20:35] Um, although tiffany loves cutting into the six. It's like her number one thing. So

[02:20:40] um, and then I gave an honorable mention to ben just for on pure social game as we've said that like defensive social game

[02:20:46] And then

[02:20:48] Then and that's it. And now we're caught up. So, okay, so we're gonna do the week separately

[02:20:52] So this so the week the tevin went

[02:20:54] last week when q almost quit

[02:20:57] Who are you giving your points to?

[02:20:59] Okay, so i've got um, i've got three points to liz for making the tevin vote happen. Um, I think

[02:21:08] That she said she's got a really good understanding of her

[02:21:13] Resume at the moment and what does she need to do? She knew her standing

[02:21:17] She knew she wanted to make a move

[02:21:19] I actually think in a crazy way it lowers her threat level to not be part of that sort of her and tevin as two

[02:21:25] Um, and it sort of opens her game up to get further

[02:21:29] Uh and offering to sit out on the on the rice

[02:21:32] I think she knew that she wasn't going to win it and again shows a good level of self-awareness

[02:21:36] I thought that was really good. Her cue self-aware queens

[02:21:39] Yes, very good. Um, uh maria. I gave two points to

[02:21:43] Um, because I think she got the idol information from q which is random that q felt connected enough to tell her that stuff

[02:21:50] um, I think she told she told charlie she got she

[02:21:54] Reinforced that alliance. Um, she shattered the trust between the um, the yanu tribe by then leaking that information

[02:22:02] And when hearing tiff said her name

[02:22:05] And that it was out there. I think she handled it very well and she remained cool calm and collective and um stuck to the plan

[02:22:11] Against heaven like she could have very easily been thrown for a loop and yeah, it would have been not great

[02:22:18] And then one point. Yeah, I don't know one point was hard. I wanted to give like i was thinking charlie for his

[02:22:25] Being part of the the majority. I also

[02:22:27] Thing is I liked I did like hunter

[02:22:30] winning immunity and um winning hide and seek as well

[02:22:33] But ultimately he just played the rest of the game that that rest of the episode really badly. Yeah

[02:22:38] No, he's like left out completely it's so i'd left out completely so I was like you would think after that one would play the

[02:22:42] Idol as well. But yeah

[02:22:45] So i'm going one with um with charlie because again, I think

[02:22:49] I think he's in every single conversation that happens. He knows exactly what's going on and he's playing his role

[02:22:55] He's playing his role pretty perfectly when again they had those conversations where everyone said like I like charlie

[02:23:00] I'm i'm I think he's a great guy. I just want to be like I want him to be involved

[02:23:06] One point for charlie that's where i'm at. Yeah

[02:23:08] I'm either same names. I gave three to liz. Um, it was her plan and intention and an execution this time

[02:23:15] And I think as well what's important is like they want to bring her into that six when they need her because they keep cutting

[02:23:19] Out their own numbers. So

[02:23:20] Yeah, she's actually the swing vote like without her and she's so strong that she's like i'm voting tevin. So she's actually like

[02:23:28] Without her throwing the line in the sand. Yeah, she does she draws a line in the sand and they need her

[02:23:32] And she's like the proper swing vote

[02:23:33] So it's very much her move and she has like a plurality on that that people have to fall to

[02:23:40] Um, even though I did feel like it was like kind of all over the place in the way that everyone knew

[02:23:45] Um, she really got it done. So I gave her three points

[02:23:48] And then charlie and maria i'm giving them as well. I gave two to charlie and one to maria

[02:23:51] I think that they again

[02:23:53] It's almost criminal how much in the middle they can be this whole merge like it's amazing perennial swing votes

[02:24:00] Incredible, um the way that they've wielded that into power

[02:24:03] I just I gave one to maria because I liked it left for her on losing the tevin connection

[02:24:07] Yeah

[02:24:08] But I still think they chose the group that worked for them and offended the journey

[02:24:12] Six slash plus one alliance power players who and it put them into a clearly a good position after that because as we'll see

[02:24:19] They're really I think leading it now and you know and and so much credit for never

[02:24:22] They didn't turn on each other and I think that at this point has to be stated

[02:24:25] So that's them and we're very much aligned on that and then this week

[02:24:29] Do I need to recap what happened this week? We don't want to win or um, who who are you giving the points to so three points

[02:24:35] I'm giving i'm giving I I know we had a good conversation about whether or how much uh,

[02:24:41] She meant to do this, but i'm giving three points to tiff. I think

[02:24:44] Yes, not playing her idol

[02:24:47] When she knew she realized she was safe is a huge part of that, but it's just it's it's just a really interesting

[02:24:53] Understanding of

[02:24:54] The abilities of an idol and how you can use it

[02:24:56] And I know she was being honest when she was telling about people burning her idol

[02:25:00] But then the back end of that of realizing that she didn't need to play it anymore

[02:25:03] I think that just worked perfectly. I think everything worked out perfectly for her at the end of the day

[02:25:08] Um, I think she's in she's kept her idol

[02:25:10] She still knows what's going on and she's still in all the conversation. The only thing there is where me um kenzie is her relationship

[02:25:17] Yeah, that might be on kenzie. Like yeah, I can't really blame Tiffany for that. It's not even like it's not even like

[02:25:23] The lift heaven thing where like tiffany really put her off

[02:25:26] Like it's not like kenzie's like I love givinny, but like we're competitive like that's not enough. That's not enough

[02:25:34] And then I had two points, uh charlie two points, I think he's playing the middle so well again

[02:25:39] I I really liked it that he didn't throw the challenge to to get rid of hunter as well

[02:25:44] You know q was saying that yeah, like we could do this

[02:25:47] Um, and they were talking about throwing the challenge backed himself. He wanted to win. He did win

[02:25:53] And also he got hunter out at the end of the day as well

[02:25:55] Which I think for him getting rid of hunter and how well he's done in a lot of challenges

[02:26:00] I think it could open the door for charlie to win a few more

[02:26:04] Individual immunity. So I think this is this played out really well for him and then one point i'm giving to kenzie

[02:26:10] I think she got I think she was the person that got hunter to not play his idol

[02:26:14] and that was the

[02:26:16] and like

[02:26:17] Whether or not that's going to to play into her

[02:26:20] Game later on like she probably could have used hunter in the game

[02:26:23] I think for the the group that she was working with that's what needed to happen and she made it happen

[02:26:27] I think she also wants to target tiff, but she backed off

[02:26:31] And at this point it hasn't really cost her anything. So i'm giving one point to kenzie

[02:26:34] I think she's got some upside moving forward in the game

[02:26:37] I actually feel like it's stupid for me to read the chart because i've written things down

[02:26:40] But they just could definitely be wrong

[02:26:42] um

[02:26:44] I will but like I would take it with a huge grain of salt. Um, yeah with kenzie

[02:26:48] I just I the tiffany thing I didn't like I think moving hunter was bad

[02:26:52] I feel like kenzie should be getting more credit in the points for like

[02:26:56] You know her social games. Yeah, and she and she did a couple of weeks ago

[02:27:01] Which is also this week because all the weeks are the same. I don't know what's going on

[02:27:04] But um, she just connects with people she connects. Yeah, it's impressive and they and they like it

[02:27:09] Yeah, yeah, she's a hairdresser always said oh it's the salon owner. Yeah, except for frankie first

[02:27:15] Yeah, frankie frankie really like i'm actually kind of annoyed at how well frankie

[02:27:19] How badly frankie ruined my hairdresser is a great survivor because their job is connecting with people

[02:27:24] And like jam jam did so well with that and then frankie immediately but now kent is bringing it back. So

[02:27:29] On the law of averages. Um, I really feel like kency but yeah, I couldn't give it this week

[02:27:33] But okay, so i've got charlie maria at the top again

[02:27:36] I really am very impressed with how they played this post merge. I'm giving maria three

[02:27:41] It's marginal

[02:27:43] But on tiffany losing power when that had been

[02:27:46] The issue for me and like not going for tiffany now. I feel like she's like, you know

[02:27:50] Kind of paced away a little bit from tiffany who was at some point at least vaguely throwing her name out

[02:27:55] So I wanted to give it to her

[02:27:56] This isn't this is something my brother would yell at me for in the integrity of the chippy

[02:27:59] But I do feel bad that in working together so well

[02:28:02] charlie and maria

[02:28:04] Like often it marginally or sometimes very fairly goes to charlie

[02:28:08] But like that's manifested in a big point disparity that should probably be a little bit closer

[02:28:13] This happened with like the tika three as an example

[02:28:15] Like you would work up like, you know that many threes over twos will add up

[02:28:19] And it doesn't really seem fair when they've both been so great now

[02:28:21] That's not a reason to game it

[02:28:22] But like also this chizzy the integrity of this chizzy

[02:28:25] I really am trying but some of these we gave randomly at the top of casaloma. Like it's been tough. Okay

[02:28:31] Let's try we can be doing double weeks. Like i'm doing my very best jason, please

[02:28:36] Just don't text me about it. Um

[02:28:38] Yeah, so i'm giving her three and i'm giving charlie too. I really feel like that's the pair and they're completely in control

[02:28:45] And then I gave one to tiffany for the implicit immunity

[02:28:47] If I felt it was super intentional, it would have been three, but I just had to take away from the fact that

[02:28:52] She wasn't trying to do what she did

[02:28:54] But there's still big parts of that that are good

[02:28:56] There's still there's still parts of the read of that that are good and it just worked out so well

[02:28:59] But that's just what yeah. Yeah

[02:29:02] Who knows what the charts are? But I think the charts might be

[02:29:06] Do we give charlie eight points today, maybe okay then charlie's on 25

[02:29:16] Tiffany's on 17

[02:29:19] and maria's on

[02:29:21] 15

[02:29:22] And q's on 15

[02:29:24] And ben's on nine and hunter left on nine and kenzie's on seven

[02:29:30] Okay, and then tevin left on three and randon left on three and liz is on seven. This is also on seven

[02:29:35] That's their due now. What's what's q on 15? He didn't he got a lot from here and then early

[02:29:41] Yeah, okay. Yeah earlier on. Yeah, because I mean look yanu did and then he and tiffany did and um,

[02:29:46] Venus is on one and mariah left on one and honestly do not quote me on that

[02:29:51] I don't know

[02:29:52] Um, it's a lot of numbers. It's been four weeks

[02:29:56] Five tribal councils. Yeah

[02:30:00] Um me

[02:30:02] You are the survivor shed I feel like we did really well with this was it I don't know

[02:30:05] It was kind of like the season was intense. It was chaotic

[02:30:08] It felt like it felt like a legitimate deep dive like it felt like we broke down a lot of this

[02:30:13] This is so good for my ocd. I like I like the only episode of survivor

[02:30:17] I've miscovering

[02:30:19] In years was like I did a double with jaque when I went to america last time and I missed like one week

[02:30:24] And missing the four I was like and like it was actually really hard because I feel like you know

[02:30:29] When I like stay on top of it and I do my notes and I watch multiple times

[02:30:32] I feel like really connected to the season we were at these viewing parties and I was like

[02:30:36] Can you tell me who's aligned with who like what?

[02:30:39] Even it's so chaotic that it was like

[02:30:41] It was hard to follow

[02:30:43] Because when i'm like kind of disconnected

[02:30:46] And I also

[02:30:47] I'm confused about why are they doing that and you know what the answer was now that I've deep dived for three days

[02:30:52] On it

[02:30:54] Why I still actually still have so many questions for so

[02:30:56] Yeah

[02:30:58] Yeah

[02:31:01] Oh shit, what a what a fun ride though, mate

[02:31:04] Yeah, we got like I have to ask the questions

[02:31:06] We got a lot the collins show asked concakes asked for a movie slash movie title for the season

[02:31:12] Oh, okay. So

[02:31:14] No, no, no. So

[02:31:16] I think if we if there is a movie title that uh personifies this season

[02:31:22] I think it would be

[02:31:24] crazy stupid love

[02:31:26] Because I think some of these moves exactly exactly. I think there's some crazy moves people are doing things that are against the best interest

[02:31:34] But I freaking love I love it. So crazy stupid love is my movie title for the season so far

[02:31:39] It's great

[02:31:40] I um, i'm looking through my notes. I think that I I think we did it

[02:31:43] I think you know

[02:31:44] I have this one random thing and it's even further behind the last four weeks

[02:31:47] But I want to say I want to give credit to maria on it because it was something that stood out to me

[02:31:51] You know how like weeks ago the last time I podcasted maria burned her extra vote before she went into the merch

[02:31:56] And everyone was like why and then when tevin went tiffany was like we got to burn that extra vote and I was like, ah

[02:32:02] Look, that's why indicated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you get it off your back get them like you

[02:32:06] Like I think that that there was a lot of merit to that. Okay, I actually think I am done now

[02:32:10] I don't think I have more even what do you have?

[02:32:12] What where can the people find you?

[02:32:14] Oh, they can follow me at edan porter on insta or at in portal one on instagram and edan porter on twitter

[02:32:21] Uh, we just finished our run of game boys comedy

[02:32:24] Um, so you can't see that anymore that's uh in the archives now and uh, yeah just uh, just having a chat

[02:32:30] I need to do

[02:32:32] some final um

[02:32:34] Chats about my season. I think uh, there's still some questions floating around that we're answering stuff like that. So

[02:32:40] And no, am I doing a reddit? Um ama or something like that, which would be really fun

[02:32:45] Uh, but yeah, it's just been great. I just love talking about survivor shan

[02:32:49] So yeah, you're the queen to talk to it about so i'm very uh blessed that you chose to bring me in on this

[02:32:56] Uh this big boy

[02:32:57] No, I I this was i'm like I really need someone who a is going to just like entertain my insane

[02:33:04] month long

[02:33:06] Bid you know, it would have been nice if it had been a chill month

[02:33:09] Yeah, but it's fine because it was great. Um

[02:33:12] Loving the season i'll be covering it now

[02:33:14] To the end no more trips no more australian survivor no more weddings no more survivor weddings. Yeah, no more weddings

[02:33:22] um

[02:33:23] That was it no more

[02:33:25] disney land

[02:33:27] Just survivor now. Yeah

[02:33:29] I do I tell you what else i'm doing. We're going um for my 40th. We're going over to bali

[02:33:36] For a week at the end of uh may

[02:33:38] Uh, and we're gonna go and garrick's opened up like a spa retreat there

[02:33:42] What

[02:33:47] Wait did garrick do that because he had to quit his job as an undercover police agent because he went on tv and called

[02:33:53] Himself an undercover police agent thus blowing that cover everyone could see him a mile away now

[02:33:57] Yeah, they'd be like aren't you garrick from survivor? Who's an undercover he'd be like shh

[02:34:01] undercover

[02:34:02] Um, that's amazing and the most random assortment of words in a sentence garrick opened a spa retreat in bali

[02:34:11] Can I get in on that like I want to do it? Let's do it. Let's do it. That'd be great

[02:34:19] Yeah, exactly I never got to play with garrick I never played with him but uh

[02:34:23] Ray definitely talks him up. So i'm gonna go check him out

[02:34:27] Well

[02:34:28] I would I would go to a spa retreat of like it's really not about garrick for me the other part

[02:34:32] Like I love garrick, but the spa retreat in bali part was actually what really sold me

[02:34:36] I was hoping it was called like the dirty dog

[02:34:39] What's it called that's I don't know I don't know i'll find out garrick spa retreat

[02:34:46] It was you know, it should be called I smell a rat. You know what?

[02:34:48] You know what that spa retreat will have no rat problem. No, no way

[02:34:53] Yeah, no dirty dog. It'll be filled with dirty dogs, but have no rats so that you know

[02:34:57] Well, probably yeah. Um, okay. Well what's going on with me now? Nothing except survivor

[02:35:03] Yeah, you just get survivor all the time. I used to have a life

[02:35:07] No, that was boring though shannon

[02:35:09] I really had a good time. I loved my trip

[02:35:12] Um, it's not that I loved the break but I kind of did and I loved being on vacation seeing my husband

[02:35:18] It's novel but um, that would be amazing wouldn't it?

[02:35:22] Yeah, it was fun. Now we won't see each other, but it's fine. Um, I have a great guest next week your

[02:35:29] What do I say cast mate? Yeah, that's the terminal saris

[02:35:35] Oh

[02:35:36] Yeah, good. Yeah ferris is off making alliances with everyone. He's he's spotted with nick the other day

[02:35:41] He's yeah, he's a man of that town. I was also with nick am I in this alliance?

[02:35:46] Where were you? Where how where no not that day. I saw nick the night before

[02:35:50] Nick's the one making the alliance. No, i think up in sydney. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, he had a wedding so

[02:35:56] Good good. Oh, well, that's fun. Oh, that'll be great. You know mine. Uh mine ferris is uh

[02:36:03] Mine grapes see what he's thinking about the season. I know he's been I um

[02:36:08] He's been pretty active on twitter

[02:36:09] I was gonna say i've really been committed to seeing like all my friends this month

[02:36:12] But the one miss was your show. You know, i'm really regretting. I hate missing out on things

[02:36:17] You've got mad foe mine

[02:36:18] Yeah

[02:36:19] He was asleep. He could not and I was like i'm also really tired

[02:36:22] But I think if he had been pumping me up, I think I could have been okay

[02:36:24] But anyway, whatever it's his fault. Um, also, you know what we're gonna be doing a draft check-in which is great

[02:36:31] You know, I organized a draft check-in before hunter left and now I might pull out so yeah because that was you

[02:36:38] Yeah, well you had to you were team hunter and q didn't you? Yeah

[02:36:42] um q

[02:36:44] So there's a there's a way i'm delusional about q. I'm decusional

[02:36:48] Um, I think he could win. I'm gonna put that on a t-shirt but it's not just that

[02:36:53] It's not we'll talk about it on the draft check-in

[02:36:55] But if kenzie who taren had the grenade if carat if kenzie wins

[02:36:59] And q comes second and venus safe venus third and q gets one vote from someone like hunter my other draft pick

[02:37:05] I would win the draft. So i'm completely

[02:37:08] about it

[02:37:09] Oh

[02:37:10] That would be bad, right? Well, actually

[02:37:13] Kenzie by the way in the month we were gone

[02:37:16] insane winner at it

[02:37:18] Yeah, like

[02:37:19] I'm really think kenzie's gonna win. Yeah

[02:37:22] So i'm right i'm right there kenzie, I don't think ben's got if you look if you start we start going at full edge you can

[02:37:28] Looking at everything charlie charlie is too obvious charlie is like the last like

[02:37:34] He's the fallen angel the strategic oma. It's the final boss. Yeah

[02:37:39] Exactly

[02:37:40] And maria maria should have more of an edit than she does like charlie gets so much of it

[02:37:45] It would be a very strange and incredibly insulting edit for maria if she's the winner and probably is regardless. Yeah

[02:37:51] Yes. Yeah, that's true. Well, we've had erica we've had uh, erica. Yeah, I mean they could be insulting but tiffany

[02:37:58] Is in kind of hot water

[02:38:01] um

[02:38:02] Well, i think kenzie i think kenzie too i see i think kenzie's in a really good position

[02:38:06] I think tiff is seen as too big a target and if kenzie's already going for it

[02:38:10] I think I think her days are numbered. Um charlie

[02:38:13] Like we said, I think he's going to be like the last person he's going to be the fallen angel the final boss

[02:38:17] Yeah, q is

[02:38:19] Probably seen as too much of a goat now, but it depends on all the people who could take to the end

[02:38:23] Liz you come on

[02:38:25] Liz is getting upside

[02:38:28] But I just don't think I think

[02:38:31] I think she's still caught up in her own self-awareness. I think it's yeah

[02:38:35] I'm not sure whether she's no edit for liz and also not there

[02:38:39] Why has liz only got like 17 confessionals all season like she doesn't see

[02:38:44] Oh

[02:38:46] I'm not gonna put that on anyone this work this work for q. Let's see how it goes

[02:38:51] Maybe she successfully quit everyone fights around she goes

[02:38:56] Is a successful quit quitting or is a successful quit what happened to q

[02:39:01] Like well, it's a successful quit is you achieve what you set out to do you achieve to quit? Okay

[02:39:05] Yeah, achieve to quit. Yeah, we failed in quick. Yeah venus is uh,

[02:39:10] No, venus is no is if venus gets one vote that in itself would really

[02:39:17] Ben has just got no she's just been under edited and but he's a really nice guy, but he's just going to be taken out

[02:39:23] And then uh who's who's left? It's just uh, maria

[02:39:27] Yeah

[02:39:28] Yep. And again, she's been seen as like doing a lot of moves with charlie as opposed to her own moves. So

[02:39:36] Yeah, I mean if charlie can push

[02:39:39] past

[02:39:41] What I think is like a clear role

[02:39:42] I mean look there isn't always like the very strategic player who like gets out right at the end

[02:39:47] Like maybe sometimes that player might win

[02:39:49] So charlie might like charlie might be my second after kenzie, but I really think and it was that it was that

[02:39:55] Tribal I didn't ask you the the q liz venus final three. Who do you think wins that you think you?

[02:40:02] Like I don't think it's close

[02:40:04] You don't think it's close. No, I don't I don't think venus can beat anyone

[02:40:08] And I think liz like the perception is really clear. I think the q

[02:40:11] Also, because he's only been out for a little bit like what would have to happen for him to get to the end

[02:40:16] Like yes, he might be carried a bit as a goat

[02:40:18] But he's in a position where maybe he wins fire. He's like that kind of alpha type who might

[02:40:22] You know, he's more kind of big bombastic kind of player that juries tend to gravitate to

[02:40:28] And does make people laugh and I think they'll just be a little bit more there

[02:40:33] Uh, and a lot of and a lot of bad stuff there

[02:40:36] But also in jet but just more stuff there and imagine this imagine the questions being asked though. Oh, oh

[02:40:43] Be so good. Yeah, I think you you has that um, but i'm also decusion also who knows

[02:40:48] I'm like hunter with the idol. I'm like what's gonna happen? Like I just wanted to happen so badly

[02:40:52] So you can't trust me. I'm like the most biased source you can go to on this. I just want it

[02:40:56] How many q skirts have you bought shannon? Oh, I'd have I mean I want it with my cumio

[02:41:00] Yeah, I um

[02:41:02] I'll take all the q merch like this this year

[02:41:05] My birthday was very much themed in like all cat stuff with pictures of my cat next year

[02:41:09] If it's still relevant in february of 2025

[02:41:12] All q all the time now you all know send me presents

[02:41:17] Um, yeah, no, this has been fun ferris draft

[02:41:21] Yeah, yeah great follow me at shannon gait subscribe to the international cyber happens feed where there are podcasts now

[02:41:27] Coming back to your feed. So thank you so much. Eden. This has been a great time

[02:41:31] What a great way to bookend the vacation. I know it's just big

[02:41:35] I've just been sitting here quietly waiting for you to get back

[02:41:39] Yeah, and like a few state turned you off now and they'll power up and they'll power down again

[02:41:45] Let's wait, but then i'll see you with the next podcast. Yeah, exactly

[02:41:48] I look forward to it jennifer. Thank you so much for having me on it really really appreciate it

[02:41:52] I love being part of um this community and being an ambassador for this game that I love so much

[02:41:56] So thank you for allowing me to share that with everyone

[02:42:00] community

[02:42:02] Community, I don't know. It's like a fire everything

[02:42:06] He doesn't need a win

[02:42:08] He just needs to come second to kenzie with just one voice q

[02:42:13] Believe in you it would be the best draft whenever unbiased as well

[02:42:16] But talk about it on the check-in with the drafters, but thank you all so much

[02:42:21] Thank you eden. It's good to be back. Thank you to our team behind the scenes

[02:42:25] And I will see you guys next time

[02:42:28] Australian

[02:42:37] Ordinary australians