Survivor 46 | Survivor Global Week 10 | Feras Basal

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[00:02:44] Hello everyone, Shannon Gass here getting you ready for our week 10 recap of Survivor 46 with Ferris.

[00:02:49] Such a fun time with Ferris. I hope you guys enjoy that even a little bit as much as I enjoyed doing it.

[00:02:54] Always love talking to Ferris but before we get there I did miss a plug at the end of the show that I wanted to plug

[00:02:59] for a comedy show that is on for the Sidney Ciders.

[00:03:02] Sidney Comedy Festival this weekend. I'll be going to the show this weekend and it's something called The Saboteur

[00:03:08] which is like an improv show but one person is the mafia, traitor, werewolf style saboteur like Kelly was once meant to be.

[00:03:17] And that's at the Factory Theatre in Marrickville this coming weekend so I thought I would plug that because it feels like a very good

[00:03:24] interest for our audience who love these games of strategy with some comedy as well.

[00:03:30] So you can find that at SidneyComedyFest.com.au

[00:03:33] That's on May 9th, 11th and 12th from this coming Thursday.

[00:03:39] Hope you guys are interested in that. Thank you so much again for listening to this. The draft check-in is out as well.

[00:03:45] And then we also have I'll be with Kelly Wentworth on the Nordals this coming week.

[00:03:49] So a lot of Survivor content happening for US Survivor. Hope you guys are enjoying.

[00:03:53] Enjoy this recap with Ferris and I will see you now. Bye!

[00:03:58] Hello everyone and welcome to RHAP's coverage of Survivor 46 for Survivor Global.

[00:04:02] I'm your host Shannon Guss. Here to talk about an episode that I loved so much.

[00:04:07] Like truly I feel instantly iconic, a big move, implicit immunity, sailing which is rude considering our current guest

[00:04:15] who is someone I'm so excited to be recapping Survivor with.

[00:04:18] He is your reigning global Survivor champion at this point. Reigning Australian Survivor champion.

[00:04:23] He is your reigning Chizzy winner at this point. He's a great Ferris Baccell. Ferris thank you for being here.

[00:04:28] Thank you so much for having me Shannon. I'm so excited that I'm on this for this specific episode because I absolutely loved it.

[00:04:37] I'm all over it. I'm loving it. So yeah, so excited to be talking to you about this.

[00:04:42] What part was it? Was it someone getting voted out with an idol which really I think makes you look even better the way that you look at your idol?

[00:04:49] Or was it 40 minutes of Applebee's? Which is Australian's it shouldn't really hit but it was hitting for me.

[00:04:55] It was Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz like all about Liz and I adored Liz and I loved every moment of it.

[00:05:04] And he made me wish I was on Survivor 46 just to experience that in person because that was just gold.

[00:05:11] I loved every moment of it. I'm sure Liz didn't but I did.

[00:05:16] Yeah, Jeff Probst once said that like some moments take, I'm really paraphrasing but like take a long time to become iconic but some are like iconic in the moment.

[00:05:24] This was that. Like as I was watching him like this blow up it had everything you wanted.

[00:05:28] It was based around two great characters and Liz and Q. It was the intensity of the season that he like wouldn't let her have this reward.

[00:05:35] It was so cute. It was the blow up which was like historic and then it was the fact that it was all over Applebee's.

[00:05:41] Like that's the comedic note that the end good read required.

[00:05:45] And there were some people like oh this 40 minute Applebee commercial.

[00:05:48] I'm like if you don't like that I don't understand you. This is such for television.

[00:05:53] It should win an award and I don't know if you know this Ferris but I have a thing with the sponsors.

[00:05:57] I love all Survivor sponsors. I used to actually have a segment on my Survivor South Africa podcast that I called the Bioscrap variety hour because there were so many sponsors

[00:06:05] and they'd all tweet about the show and this one sponsor Bioscrap my favorite of the sponsors no offense Applebee's but they would like tweet really shady stuff about the contestants.

[00:06:13] Like I don't know who they were. They were like a stan but worse like they were shady and we would talk about it every week on the podcast.

[00:06:19] So I love the sponsors so 40 minutes of Applebee's.

[00:06:24] That's like the best commercial ever for Applebee's like they're they're honestly their customers should have gone through the roof after that episode because

[00:06:34] I didn't even realize how much I want the Applebee's after watching that episode and I don't even know what the hell Applebee's was before watching that episode.

[00:06:42] So yeah I've never had Applebee's but I will say that in like I was like rewatching the episode the next day during like dinner time for this podcast and I did get a burger for dinner

[00:06:52] and I don't think those two things are unrelated. Like it made me just want burgers. I'm like well I've got a burger and it was great.

[00:06:59] Yeah every single brand should want every food brand should want to sponsor Survivor.

[00:07:04] It's such good advertising. It's just really the best.

[00:07:08] We feel so like seamless as well and effortless. Like I love this. Hopefully Liz gets sponsored by Applebee's.

[00:07:15] I really hope we get something out of this for Liz.

[00:07:18] Yeah I mean I feel like Survivor as a show should be sending this episode to every fast food chain in America.

[00:07:24] And obviously like Australian Survivor has done that so well with KFC.

[00:07:28] Like I know every time the KFC...

[00:07:30] We didn't get that.

[00:07:32] Yeah because who did you have? You just had the car sponsor?

[00:07:35] Yeah we had the car sponsor. We didn't have any KFC. I wanted KFC.

[00:07:39] But every time they do KFC, I don't know why KFC didn't sponsor this season?

[00:07:44] No no they were not involved in the season at all which I was really upset about.

[00:07:50] That's upsetting and wrong from them because truly every time it happens Peter's like I need to get KFC.

[00:07:54] I know that is a big thing so it works.

[00:07:58] Yeah definitely works because I want Applebee's now.

[00:08:02] Yeah so anyway incredible episode.

[00:08:05] Seris last we spoke to you, we did the deep dive five hours and you had just won Survivor.

[00:08:10] How's life? I saw you with JLP hobnobbing with the glitterati and fancy cars.

[00:08:15] Yes yes it brought back a lot of trauma seeing his face again.

[00:08:20] Really?

[00:08:21] Yeah it really did like hearing his voice and seeing his face.

[00:08:25] It's like okay this doesn't sit right with me as much as I love JLP.

[00:08:29] I never want to hear his voice again. I never want to see him again.

[00:08:32] But yeah I know it is awful but trust me like it brings back a lot of trauma.

[00:08:38] But it was awesome. I loved it.

[00:08:41] It was such a good event. It was for the Top Gear launch so I was like I need to see JLP and have a bit of a convo with him.

[00:08:50] So we talked a few things Survivor and what's next in the future.

[00:08:56] So very very interesting and good night. Love the night.

[00:08:59] So it was awesome seeing JLP again.

[00:09:01] Yeah but just in general you've been a winner now for I don't know how long since the end of the season.

[00:09:05] It feels like it's been a year.

[00:09:06] But what's the difference in going from being not a Survivor winner into being a Survivor winner?

[00:09:11] Except the money.

[00:09:13] Oh yeah except the money exactly.

[00:09:16] Definitely got recognized a lot more than I ever would in my entire life.

[00:09:21] I thought people would have been like over it by now but still I'll be walking in Western Sydney and like some random person would come up to me and just tell me how much they love the season which is amazing.

[00:09:32] I love that people aren't over it yet so I love that the hype train is still happening.

[00:09:37] It's slowly slowly slowing down but it feels like after that roller coaster ride I feel like I'm slowly getting my life back in order with my daily routine.

[00:09:50] So no it feels good. It feels awesome. I love it.

[00:09:53] Well we love that you are now playing and come to recap the show with us.

[00:09:57] But this is your first US Survivor season.

[00:10:01] Yes it is.

[00:10:02] Yeah and that's so different. It's really just such a different show at this point to us.

[00:10:07] What are your big macro takes on New Era US compared to your experience of the show?

[00:10:14] Okay.

[00:10:16] Look the if we're talking about like right from the beginning of this season the three teams thing the three tribes sorry just I don't know that doesn't sit right with me only because like I don't think I would do very well with US Survivor only because when you're in three tribes and there's less people there's less chess pieces to move around.

[00:10:40] Like it's either you're on the right side or the wrong side simple as that if you're on the wrong side then yeah good luck.

[00:10:46] So I I don't like the fact that there are three tribes of six people maybe if they increase the amount of people in each tribe that be a bit better.

[00:10:57] So there's a lot more gameplay to work around but if you're just if you're in an alliance or outside of an alliance then you just pretty much have no hope unless you're just like the social master.

[00:11:09] So I don't know I feel I felt like that it's a lot harder for players to really shine pre merge with the whole three tribes and the advantages honestly I'm still trying to get my head around it.

[00:11:22] Me too.

[00:11:24] I really am I literally googled it last time I'm like what the hell is a beware advantage what the hell is a shot no a shot in the dark that's what he wants and honestly I'm not gonna lie I'm still trying to have my head around.

[00:11:38] Okay they didn't explain it okay good you're right they because now they there's like an assumed knowledge shot in the dark so every one of them gets like a die so they don't roll.

[00:11:46] Okay but it's still a die and then if they we've seen like Mariah use it so then instead of voting she can use her shot in the dark.

[00:11:54] Okay and then she doesn't get to vote and then it's a one in six chance even though she does not roll it again but if he picks it then he picks out a scroll one of six scrolls and if it's the one scroll is safe then she's safe.

[00:12:06] So it's hit one time in the new era ever.

[00:12:08] Okay all right wow holy crap yeah I feel like there's just a lot of yeah advantages and different types of you know plays that that really take a bit of power out of the players hands on top of the fact that there are six people in the tribe so I don't know I feel like they just need to go back to the old setup if they want to put advantages that's fine as well but like for a first time watcher like me.

[00:12:38] I was so confused for like the first five episodes of like what the hell is going on but I am slowly getting into it now love the cast.

[00:12:48] I actually actually really do like the cast of this season.

[00:12:52] I think that the women are absolutely amazing of this season and I think they are the ones dominating the season and I love that.

[00:13:00] But yeah I just feel like they comparing it to Australian Survivor they just need to have less advantages more people less teams.

[00:13:11] Yeah I mean it's very interesting to hear you come in on season 46 because they do have all this assumed knowledge for all of these like little knickknacks at this point.

[00:13:20] And we've learned along the way but you're right that is pretty confusing and probably is a bit of a barrier for entry for new viewers which is something they should probably think about.

[00:13:28] I mean we had the opposite of that on Survivor UK bar season which was the first of the franchise assume people knew nothing about Survivor which was largely true because it hasn't been in the UK and we're like this is what an idol is so we probably are on either side of the spectrum there.

[00:13:41] But yeah that is really really interesting and it's interesting that you say as well there's some difficulties in it for the player because I think a lot of it you want a 47 day game and there is a lot like it's day 13.

[00:13:52] Oh yeah.

[00:13:53] Yeah.

[00:13:54] Yeah.

[00:13:55] I mean that's a big part of it but as you say like in many ways it's more constricted a player like you who thrives on options and like creative gameplay might be more restricted in ways that might be more difficult.

[00:14:05] Of course. Yeah definitely like I think the reason why I went as far as I did in this season was because number one it was so bloody fluid and number two you just needed options at all times and the more options that you are limited to the sort of less you get to shine and the less we get to see players actually play.

[00:14:29] Like I want to see people go from the bottom to the top every single episode and it's sort of hard to see that when you're so constricted with numbers and teams and all of that.

[00:14:41] I just want to see players do their own thing and play and if they're at the bottom I want to see them go to the top.

[00:14:47] I want to see them manipulate and it's so much harder with less people.

[00:14:51] That's that's my take. That's my biggest take on on this season.

[00:14:54] They can have three tribes they can have whatever advantages they want. They can have whatever days they want. I just want to see more players play with more players if that makes sense.

[00:15:02] Yeah and we talk about like social capital. I feel like I've been coming back to it a lot this year but like social capital being how you spend like strategic money it just feels like it's like a cat market.

[00:15:11] Like there's not going to be as much money to make in this in this economy in this new era economy.

[00:15:19] But the main reason I got you on this podcast was to bully you about what other US seasons you should watch.

[00:15:26] I really want to be your US guide. It's a very important role and I don't want to miss that opportunity.

[00:15:32] I want to be like there's a chart and I want to be the one to like to guide you through what you're like.

[00:15:38] I feel like you're the best person for it. I've had so many people suggest so many different things.

[00:15:43] I've had you in villains get thrown at me.

[00:15:46] No don't do that.

[00:15:47] Oh really?

[00:15:48] No it's I mean it's the best season but it's a returning season. Like you need to build your way up Ferris. We'll start from we'll start from early on.

[00:15:55] We'll go back. I have a system and this is my audition to be that person for you and I really think if you consider me for that role I won't let you.

[00:16:04] Alright you need to tell me a proper order to watch things in. I'm happy to skip certain seasons but I want a proper order that's going to really build me up to an amazing season to watch.

[00:16:15] Yeah I do have a color coded chart.

[00:16:18] Of course you do.

[00:16:20] I think it's a Google Shannon Gus chart but I think that I have, I think I have a, this isn't good podcasting. Is it a folder somewhere?

[00:16:30] I'm gonna anyway I'll send it to you after but there's a color coded chart and okay here it is. This is the video podcast no one else can see it but as you can see it's color coded.

[00:16:39] So these are the green ones and you're what yeah so we're gonna.

[00:16:44] Yeah we'll have a chat about that.

[00:16:47] Dedicate your life to this and to me as your like survivor sensei that's all I'm asking.

[00:16:52] I need to put you on a payroll.

[00:16:54] I need 100% of your time, I need full commitment.

[00:16:57] I believe there's 100% of my money I was like wait no no.

[00:17:01] There will be a pretty steep price because I know that you can give it like you just want $500,000 so I think that I should get some percentage of that.

[00:17:11] Of course we'll definitely discuss that outside of the podcast.

[00:17:14] Yeah no more social capital I want actual capital but anyway let's discuss this because we're getting to the end game about the final seven I want to talk through this episode for everyone and also where they stand going into an endgame situation and I really want to start with, I want to start with Maria because I really feel like this was her episode and I thought she was so fire but I feel like it's been debated because especially in the culture of the season and often in any survivor probably it's like you make the move and then you're the head of the

[00:17:44] snake and then your head's going to get chopped off so I know there's been debate around the move being executed in a big threat like Tiffany being taken out with an idol in her pocket which is baller but also was it too early some people think she's getting sniped next how do you kind of see the strategy of this move for Maria?

[00:17:59] I love Maria I think Maria is incredible I think she's playing a fantastic game and I am all for all the moves that she has done especially in this episode honestly.

[00:18:09] I think she is taking advantage in the right way of Q and the threat of Q and the fact that everybody wants Q out and sort of putting him to the side for another tribal and taking advantage of taking someone out like Tiff.

[00:18:26] I think it's an amazing move I'm completely on board with Maria and honestly she's like my number one watching it the entire season I thought Maria she's not playing too loud I don't think she's playing too loud either as loud as people might think.

[00:18:43] She's doing all the work back at camp doing the whispers in people's ears and not really being seen as someone that's completely the head of the snake and I think that's the best position to be in.

[00:18:58] I think she's the whisperer and I think she's getting the moves done and I think she's making all the right moves so far so I'm all for Maria I love her.

[00:19:09] Yeah there's so much of what she did in this episode I mean I completely agree and I do think this was the right time for her it comes with risk as she's saying it's a big move she's aware of that but I think it was a risk worth taking which we can kind of talk through like the outs that she has and kind of why it was worth it.

[00:19:24] But I mean there's a lot of like the social work she was putting in that I just like want to pay some attention to.

[00:19:30] The way that she approached Liz I loved a lot of the wording like firstly to be like we still hate Q like specific stuff around like Ben really hates Q apparently they have like a really bad relationship Ben and Q so you don't have to worry like we're not like sneaking Q in which is kind of a lie like I think Maria is trying to like really cultivate something with Q but still being like he's still on the outs he's just a means to an end which is actually really very much what Liz is in this situation.

[00:19:53] I thought kind of like putting that putting her at ease in that way essential Ben is like this is our only chance so makes it seem like urgent we got to do it and then the best one she's like you're the key holder even though Liz will later say like this is a move for Maria's resume I think giving her that agency I really loved and also her approach with Q.

[00:20:13] The only person to come and talk to Q after to see him as an opportunity and not just a liability or something to just get rid of I think was incredible and then she like checks that he's okay she's like do you want to be alone or do you want to talk again really great approach and then even later when she comes to him with the Tiffany move we hear him say Tiffany first if that's how it happened she really leads him there she doesn't give him too much information she gives him quite a bit of power and agency and like if you want to like take out Tiffany that's fine.

[00:20:41] I think she gives him that agency and also just look how much you've mattered to him as we see in the reward picks to have someone come to him and treat him like he was still worthwhile and that that's a social capital that we talk about and you know what and she's hearing both sides of it as well so when she was on that reward not only was me you know in you know in it with Q.

[00:21:06] She was also hearing the other side of the whole Kenzie Tiff wanting to get Q out so her E is to the ground and she's and I think you know what communication matters in a game of survival and the way she's communicating is absolutely flawless.

[00:21:22] She's not making it seem like these are her moves. She's giving people their own you know saying what they want to do and wording it the right way she's almost playing like a Kirby game in terms of giving people their own options and being quite subtle about it but also being a very dominant player.

[00:21:42] The fact that she was the only one to check up on Q is like that's that's the first thing you're doing in survival. If someone is on the outside and he's clearly on the outside you check up on them. You have a conversation with them because you never know when you might need them and in that case she needed Q to pretty much have control right now.

[00:22:04] Now the only person that Q is looking at as a possible ally is Maria because she's the only one that went up to him and spoke to him and we saw how much that meant to him by him inviting her to the reward.

[00:22:17] So I think she's in such a great position at the moment having Charlie as well on the side you know discussing with Charlie having almost like a ride or die and that exactly like you said speaking to Lisa giving her the option making her seem like she's the key holder in other

[00:22:33] words she's the one that's going to have this on her resume and also her calm demeanor. She really knows how to communicate and that is so huge in survival like there is a very big difference in communication with for example Maria compared to you know Q or Venus.

[00:22:42] She really knows how to extinguish a fire which is huge in survival and I just think you know she is the key holder in terms of communication.

[00:22:51] Yeah communication is such an essential one it's one of my favorite things to do in kind of like analyzing the game because it can be really subtle but as someone who works in communication like I just love to do it and we do it in both directions.

[00:23:03] I know in your season there was a lot of here's how you don't communicate with your team.

[00:23:07] We put so much of the onus on the other person and it's so considered and it's not an accident and if it were an accident she'd be a great innate communicator but I think that she's very considered in the way that she's approaching people.

[00:23:13] The fact that she's, you know she's very invested in the way that she's approaching people.

[00:23:18] So I think she's very much a really important player and she's really a person that is very much like every other person that she's ever met in life.

[00:23:26] So I think that's what she's been trying to do.

[00:23:29] an accident. And if it were an accident, she'd be a great innate communicator. But I think

[00:23:33] that she's very considered in the way that she's approaching people. The fact that she

[00:23:37] takes the initiative to do that, or even the fact that she's chosen to speak to lids

[00:23:41] might speak to part of that social connection anyway. So you know, as you said, she

[00:23:45] has her ear on the ground. She and Charlie have been on in on every plan we've seen

[00:23:49] that continues to be true and gives them options with which they make good decisions.

[00:23:53] It's very, very hard to criticize anything any decision really that they've made throughout

[00:23:57] even with that immense amount of power. And I think for Maria as well, why this move is

[00:24:02] so essential. And one of the reasons I think the risk is worth taking is does she have

[00:24:08] Q now? Because that is massive. He writes Yanu no more on the voting parchment. He

[00:24:12] doesn't have anyone else. He's super divided clearly from Liz, everyone else, Ben.

[00:24:17] But if she alone has him, that is crucial or should I say crucial because I'm making

[00:24:25] every Q by now. He could be the number like if she can get through seven, if we talk about

[00:24:33] Charlie but with like Ben and Charlie in Q and even get through to six with Q.

[00:24:38] That is such essential power to have basically an extra vote. So losing him here, compared

[00:24:44] to using him to take out a threat would be very unfortunate for her because like she earned

[00:24:48] that. It's kind of how I felt about Kenzie last week who lost Hunter who she picked up

[00:24:52] and used her social game. And now even at the beginning of the episode, she's like,

[00:24:55] well, now I don't know that we have the numbers because I've lost a really important

[00:24:58] number to me. And I didn't like that for Kenzie. Whereas for Maria, I feel like she fights

[00:25:02] for the capital, the cheese, a crude or should I say a Qed. Please stop me.

[00:25:06] I'm talking a different language. It's Q language and it's just coupons.

[00:25:15] But yeah, so she fights for that. I think that was great. And I'm so sorry.

[00:25:18] Yeah, I love it. I'm loving these little coupons.

[00:25:23] I can't, I can't.

[00:25:25] So good. It's so good. But yeah, I'm fully on board with Maria. I'm obsessed with Maria

[00:25:33] in her gameplay. Look, I think the biggest thing is her subtlety. Her ability to make

[00:25:40] big moves while being subtle is such an important characteristic to have in the

[00:25:46] game of survival, not being loud in front of all these loud people.

[00:25:51] Keep in mind like her number two, Charlie is slowly starting to be seen as a

[00:25:56] challenge beast as well. So she's hiding behind that as well. She's hiding behind,

[00:26:01] you know, Venus being very outspoken compared to herself where she's not seen

[00:26:07] as someone that's outspoken or Kenzie who has also seen as someone that's very bubbly.

[00:26:13] That is, look, there's a difference between seen as a big social player and being a big

[00:26:17] social player. And I think Kenzie is seen as a big social player. I think Ben could also possibly

[00:26:27] be seen as a big social player. But there's a difference in terms of being a big, being seen

[00:26:32] as a big social player and actually playing a proper social game. And I think that's what

[00:26:37] distinguishes Maria compared to the rest of the tribe. There's Q, which obviously isn't in

[00:26:44] the best position. There's Liz who just had a big blowout and is possibly rubbing some people

[00:26:49] the wrong way. I genuinely think Maria is in the best spot at the moment and could possibly

[00:26:56] still be in the best spot in the upcoming weeks. Step into the world of power, loyalty

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[00:28:34] VTW. Voidware prohibited by law. C terms and conditions. 18 plus. Yeah is that how you look

[00:28:39] at next week because again like obviously people are talking about now she's made herself a

[00:28:44] target, like it was clearly her move, people will talk about it, someone like Liz could even

[00:28:47] lead some sort of charge against her so that subtlety may kind of meet its end because this

[00:28:54] move has been very visible. Even last week she was like okay well Kenzie will get that credit

[00:28:58] but then we'll be popping her head out. Now she's the one who's popped her head out

[00:29:02] so do you think it's that subtlety that will protect her or how do you kind of see

[00:29:06] her navigating that possible threat? I think it's about how she manages post-tribals

[00:29:15] that same night. Dropping comments to Liz making sure that she knows maybe that was her move or

[00:29:23] she was the key and it's because of her you know maybe Tiff got out. To drop these subtle

[00:29:29] comments right after tribal I think is super super super important. Going out to you know

[00:29:35] a couple of people and having conversations as to why you know they helped in that situation

[00:29:41] I would have went straight to Liz and been like look we did this because of you if it wasn't for

[00:29:45] you we could not have got this time. I would have went straight to Q, it would have been like Q,

[00:29:50] you made the right choice working with us for getting Tiff out you know if it wasn't for you

[00:29:54] we couldn't get this time. I would have reinforced the fact that this was all you and

[00:29:59] was nothing got to do with me remember the conversation we had on the beach it was because

[00:30:03] of you this this happened. I would have definitely reinforced that and if she does do that maybe

[00:30:07] she can continue this subtlety that can work in her favour. Yeah I mean I think Q that's

[00:30:13] her best chance of doing that. Q-ing that? No because I'm genuinely I'm talking in a different

[00:30:21] language. Please keep them coming. I'm talking the Q language it's just it's language but

[00:30:26] spelled with a Q instead of all the A's for some reason. So yeah I mean I think Q like

[00:30:36] I don't know how real he was being at tribal council. I thought he actually did he blindsided

[00:30:40] Tiffany really well like the facade was good but he was saying I need people to jump on my

[00:30:43] plan that's not necessarily how he feels but I definitely feel like he's the type of personality

[00:30:47] and the way she approached him where he could believe that the most so I kind of feel like

[00:30:51] she really does have Q from a social standpoint and then like Ben for me is the big one

[00:30:57] because if they have just slowed up a majority if Ben is Seeger strong and Charlie

[00:31:01] especially as we've seen through the season can retain Ben are they four of seven because then

[00:31:06] even in this like kind of not as much alliance game they could have a four of seven that can

[00:31:11] see them through that I think would be incredible. So you know I think her and Charlie doing it

[00:31:17] together for me compared to like Kenzie I mean it was her number one ally completely different

[00:31:20] social standing but even in terms of like just popping your head out as a concept

[00:31:25] at least they're doing it together she is hiding behind Charlie to a large degree I do

[00:31:28] agree with that I think that they protect each other in different ways they're around later

[00:31:32] obviously they have three rounds now to fire two of them to wear it Q has kept in hopefully as

[00:31:38] a number and if not if it looks like they're really you know on the bottom and someone like

[00:31:42] Ben has flipped maybe Q again is like just you know just a red flag to a bull as a last

[00:31:49] resort kind of target is there as well so I do think that they have important outs that

[00:31:55] did allow them to make a big move get the resume point improve their I think structural standing

[00:32:03] and keep Q around which I just think was so important for her so you know you wouldn't

[00:32:07] necessarily look at a big move this early in the new era maybe but I think that you know

[00:32:15] I often say early rather than late and I think that there's probably some you know context

[00:32:22] around that as well for you know if you miss the opportunity what does it look like

[00:32:27] but for them considering that he had an idol you want to go a little early

[00:32:30] losing Q especially is so bad like I see it and it's a two-part move for me because it

[00:32:35] necessitates consolidating with Ben and Q later and like following through to next week but I

[00:32:41] think that it was worth it to me and now they need to execute on like the next part of that

[00:32:45] if that makes sense exactly right yeah now I think I think the the TIF move was perfect timing

[00:32:50] definitely also you know with Kenzie also tossing up whether or not she wanted to to gun for TIF

[00:32:57] I think he he would be the least backlash possible at that perfect time so I think

[00:33:04] getting TIF out at that time with your idol is just spot on yeah and Tiffany said in

[00:33:09] ex interviews she was coming for them um she was actually working she said that actually

[00:33:14] Charlie had said to her that oh next time we can use the idol against Maria which I

[00:33:18] assume was a ruse because um I'm not even gonna do it I'm not I know that it's got a use sound

[00:33:22] but I'm not gonna do it but then you know where I'll start annoying people and I think that point

[00:33:27] was like way back there um no but I feel like so Charlie was a big part of this because

[00:33:32] apparently it feels like a lot of the blinds I was on Charlie Tiffany seemed to have a

[00:33:35] closer relationship by what she said with Charlie he was talking to her about using the

[00:33:40] idol Maria next time which again sure it was a gambit because uh falsehood because she um

[00:33:48] you know she was going home but she was coming for them she even said she sees them as the

[00:33:52] biggest jury threats which in itself is interesting she said especially Charlie so that shows

[00:33:56] maybe how they're being perceived from someone who is now on the jury and yeah she was coming

[00:34:02] for especially Maria they've had this weird divide Tiffany said her name way back when

[00:34:06] that's what started all of the issues Maria has been kind of looking at it in response

[00:34:10] since so I think especially for Maria and for both of them Tiffany who was a power player

[00:34:15] with an idol with connections was looking at them soon and yeah when you have an idol I think it does

[00:34:20] push you to need to go possibly a little bit early especially when there's so much to gain

[00:34:24] here so I can't I can't really um complain about the timing but I just need them to

[00:34:29] kind of follow it through into how they you know protect against that next week

[00:34:34] yeah definitely definitely it makes you think how exactly you know the next few episodes is

[00:34:40] going to play out like there's so many different factors that could happen like you

[00:34:43] know is Ken to get to be really pissed off that you know he may be awesome her move or

[00:34:48] she wasn't really as involved or how is Q is Q and Kenzie gonna you know get back together

[00:34:53] is you know Charlie gonna turn against Maria like there's so many different possibilities

[00:34:58] and um I think you know some players are in better positions than others I think you know

[00:35:03] for example Venus she um isn't as big of a threat as she was you know a couple of episodes

[00:35:10] ago um so she's really playing low which is possibly a great thing you know Ben as well isn't

[00:35:16] really being considered um in a lot of the conversations in terms of like voting him out

[00:35:22] so it's going to be really interesting to see how these next few episodes play out

[00:35:26] yeah I thought it was kind of upsetting for Venus a couple of things that she

[00:35:30] I mean she didn't get any confessions in this episode they didn't think that they

[00:35:34] wanted to use her as a swing vote which speaks again a big lack of social capital

[00:35:39] which I think was correct because I do think Venus is a more aggressive player than Liz and I

[00:35:44] do think she would have more of a chance of blowing it up which Liz will talk about I think

[00:35:48] should have done and doesn't do so I think Charlie specifically really picks the right

[00:35:51] target there also upsetting for Venus there was a secret scene where she lights herself on fire

[00:35:55] and it didn't even make the edit so that yeah she lit herself on fire um which the

[00:36:01] vibe of winners have done in the past but uh herself on fire she was sleeping near the

[00:36:07] fire and seems to have like rolled into it and then she was on fire which is it's sad in itself

[00:36:13] but if you light yourself on fire I think you were like this should be on television like I

[00:36:18] I'd be so pissed off I'd be like where the hell's my editor on the fire what the hell oh

[00:36:23] my god that's awesome also very tragic at the same time she's okay she burnt Mariah's jacket

[00:36:28] if anyone wants to watch that secret scene on CBS YouTube with a VPN um that's how I

[00:36:33] watch it but um Charlie I want to talk about Charlie because we talk about how he

[00:36:38] did choose Liz as a swing which worked you know they could have gone in 4-4 like you guys did

[00:36:43] every week you with your plurality even splits every week no but I like getting a fifth I like

[00:36:49] having a majority and not having a go to a possible stalemate call me old fashion

[00:36:53] and he chooses Liz I think that's quite crucial um he protects for the second week in a row

[00:37:00] with the immunity win where the target's going to come second so he's been quick where do you see

[00:37:05] Charlie in this I think Charlie is in a really good position as well socially um I think he's

[00:37:13] in a good position the only problem is people are going to start seeing him as a physical

[00:37:19] threat when whenever you see anyone win two immunity challenges in a row immediately all eyes

[00:37:26] are on you um and also less on Q like it's so easy to assume someone like Q is just going

[00:37:32] to be a challenge piece because of obviously how he looks but you know once people start to

[00:37:37] realize okay these challenges are going to be less about how amazingly physical you are

[00:37:42] and just how strong-minded you are at the end of the day and people are going to start

[00:37:46] seeing Charlie as a threat in challenges so I think Charlie really needs to um try and focus

[00:37:55] more on his social game and minimizing his threat I think that's his only issue at the moment

[00:38:00] trying to minimize his threat as a physical threat um but I think he's in a good position

[00:38:07] I think he's a he's a very strategic um player which is great uh but yeah no it's I think his

[00:38:13] only issue is the whole physical side of things people are going to start seeing him

[00:38:16] as a physical threat and that is he needs to figure out a way to sort of minimize that

[00:38:21] and get people distracted onto other things that aren't physical um so focus more on you know uh

[00:38:28] possibly you know Kenzie's social game he needs to pretty much deflect and distract people that

[00:38:35] he him being a physical threat is the least of people's worries which is going to be hard

[00:38:41] so he really needs to there's a lot of threat management he needs to work on

[00:38:46] yeah I do so you see him as like properly a shield for Maria even with her

[00:38:50] making this move like he would still be that main target of the pair I really do I really do

[00:38:56] when you're I feel like when you're on the island in the second you see someone start to

[00:39:00] win a few challenges you seriously start to consider them as a threat over you know maybe

[00:39:08] a strategic threat because for example um if they're going to if they're looking at Maria

[00:39:16] and Charlie for example the first pick for me would always be Charlie because he's going to

[00:39:23] keep winning immunities whereas in Maria I'll be like oh no she's not going to win next

[00:39:27] immunity so we'll just vote her out next time but Charlie we've got no idea how many

[00:39:31] times he's going to win so whenever he doesn't win we need to strike as soon as possible so

[00:39:36] that's why I see maybe the physical threats um as the first pick compared to a strategic

[00:39:42] threat or a social threat so that's why I think maybe Maria is hiding behind Charlie and Charlie

[00:39:48] will be more of a shield in the short term yeah Maria won at the split tribal um over the whole

[00:39:55] group yes and she won that reward as well but we even see like with Q well I know that you

[00:39:59] know it fed into what they wanted to do anyway but they were like oh he's won one reward

[00:40:03] that's even more of a reason to get rid of him and it's hard for Charlie because he

[00:40:06] couldn't afford to lose those challenges because even if he was like okay let the target drop

[00:40:10] out and then I can go next that means he'd have to win like they were second so he really had to

[00:40:14] protect those immunities and now he has put himself out in front but I do think for Charlie

[00:40:18] Ben is so essential and Ben he's a benchel now I'm just I can't my brain is broken

[00:40:27] but he he's like I love that you're humoring me as if this is good it's not

[00:40:34] um but Ben to me is actually the key to everything and if Charlie can retain Ben again

[00:40:38] they're that four of seven and I think that's it let's have an alliance on survivor um let's

[00:40:43] not target our friends but our number one um and I do think Ben is key to that I mean and

[00:40:49] I think Ben actually should flip on them but for Maria and Charlie if they have Q and Ben

[00:40:55] they're good to go and then for them perfect world dream scenario this is it I don't know

[00:40:59] if they can do it but if you can take our Kenzie at seven maintain that majority through

[00:41:04] get to a point where they're now they're at six they have the agency to maybe turn on each other

[00:41:08] have the agency to maybe turn on someone like Ben who might be more of a threat than like a Venus

[00:41:12] Liz or a Q and take it down the two of them or just keep it rolling take out you know like

[00:41:17] a Liz and turn on each other later go to the end together it puts them in such a power

[00:41:21] position because Kenzie has that connection to Ben which is why this is hard but also essential

[00:41:26] she is you know a social threat I think she's more of a jury threat than the others

[00:41:31] like I would be taking out Kenzie if I can if they couldn't if they can't take out Kenzie

[00:41:35] because Ben won't do it I think you appeal to Ben take out someone like a Liz which isn't

[00:41:40] you know I think as big a win but just maintaining that majority for them I think

[00:41:44] is really really key I just don't think Ben should do that but if they can really rely on

[00:41:48] like Ben's loyalty especially Charlie like retaining Ben as he's had that relationship with

[00:41:53] Ben that we've seen all season that to me is like the game for Charlie Maria so I think

[00:41:57] next week is really really important because are they going to win out against someone like Kenzie

[00:42:02] are they going to have to make like a half move that still maintains their power on someone like

[00:42:06] Liz or does Kenzie win out and that could be I think the difference between who wins the game

[00:42:10] between those kind of two power factions I think if Kenzie makes it any further she

[00:42:16] she is going to be a huge huge threat for like as a jury threat especially I think yeah

[00:42:23] everyone everyone loves Kenzie and if she doesn't get out in the next in the next

[00:42:28] episode or two then I think she's got a very clear path to to the end she's a very

[00:42:35] and like people underestimate how much likeability is is like how important it is in the game

[00:42:42] which is why like for example when we see Liz Liz's little scene like that's that's that's

[00:42:52] such a hard thing to to do so if you if you end up you know going off your chops like that

[00:42:58] you're it's going to be so easy for people to just start throwing your name out

[00:43:03] so to have the ability for everyone to just like you or at least not have any hate or

[00:43:10] animosity towards you is a big thing as well so I think if Kenzie does make it through the

[00:43:15] next you know episode or two she also has a very very clear path to the end so she's

[00:43:21] a massive threat but yeah I think it all does depends on Ben's loyalty and I think Ben yeah

[00:43:27] and I think um Ben is a loyal player I think he does seem like someone that would be more

[00:43:34] compared to compared to the rest so I don't know we're just gonna have to see

[00:43:38] yeah but loyal to who because he has had that like really important connection with

[00:43:42] Kenzie when he had the panic attack and we've seen their social game he chooses

[00:43:45] Seega here he obviously doesn't inform Kenzie of the plan but he really seemed to like want

[00:43:50] to get the idol out he probably could make himself feel a little better about the fact

[00:43:53] that Kenzie had just suggested it last time so I don't know if he was fully not choosing

[00:43:57] Kenzie but it was definitely a win for Seega to push the threat of that idol and to have him

[00:44:03] be with them and to kind of you know enact this move so I don't necessarily know which

[00:44:09] way he will go I think he should be turning next week like I think this is so important

[00:44:15] because he he where Ben kind of stands or where I see him stand from a jury perspective

[00:44:19] is I don't think he beats Kenzie or Charlie and Maria and Tiffany also saw Charlie Maria like out

[00:44:25] in front Charlie maybe first from a jury perspective okay so then you need them gone before fire

[00:44:30] because you know at Final Four like they're automaking fire right like that's part of the

[00:44:34] new era um so yeah and you can that's hard to control so that's the three he needs out

[00:44:39] and I don't think he can let Maria and Charlie get to a six with Q so Maria or Charlie

[00:44:45] need to go next for him so he needs to come back make Kenzie feel better she doesn't have

[00:44:48] a lot of options she's really relying on him and lead a coup against Charlie or Maria I think

[00:44:54] and then take out the other one and then take out Kenzie yes and then and this is all quite

[00:45:01] delicate and it relies on people not winning immunity who have all technically won immunities

[00:45:06] in the past and Charlie Maria and Kenzie so it is quite delicate but I think he has power

[00:45:11] to do it next week and I think he needs to start doing it I wouldn't have blown the plan

[00:45:15] up here and we'll talk about other people who maybe should have blown it up because everyone

[00:45:19] obviously had power to do that but I think going with it here is okay and blowing it up would have

[00:45:23] been a lot but it's okay because he has then the agency to be truly like what should be a

[00:45:29] swing vote in seven next week and he should have the connection with Kenzie and the power

[00:45:33] to take out these big threats in the other Seegas and I think that he should do it so

[00:45:37] I'm higher on his move this week if he follows through with then turning on it next week

[00:45:42] because I think that that's again kind of kind of I see kind of delicate in terms of the numbers

[00:45:46] and you really need to like take the shot every single time until four for him to win

[00:45:50] but he I think also would be in a position where that would make sense we often do see

[00:45:55] the big threats all start to fall one by one by one at the stage of the game so

[00:45:59] I think he can do it I think he needs to know that he should do it I hope he knows that

[00:46:04] and then I think he needs to start it now but yeah getting through this now getting out

[00:46:07] Tiffany who he also needed to get out before the final four I think works and then you

[00:46:13] move forward with a four that you can work with through the game and the takeout so let me ask

[00:46:19] you this who do you think is Ben's best option to take out next I think Charlie if he can from

[00:46:28] as you said from a physical standpoint yeah yeah wow okay or Maria because then it breaks

[00:46:35] up Maria and Q yeah I think either way honestly they're both so threatening that like it would

[00:46:41] be a big win either way definitely no but no one else can go home for him like it has to be one

[00:46:46] of those two yeah 100% I think for him it'll be better to possibly take out Maria and again

[00:46:55] because he okay so he needs to understand what sort of player he is compared to for example

[00:47:02] Charlie and Maria who he's most similar to if he's more similar to Maria he needs to take out

[00:47:08] Maria if he is more similar to to Charlie he needs to take out Charlie the only reason why

[00:47:13] is because he can take their place so if he takes out Maria because he is just as social

[00:47:19] and he's just as subtle and he can do that and he can replace Maria's whispers that Maria's

[00:47:25] currently dominating in he needs to take out Maria if he's just as the same play if he

[00:47:30] could be just as physical as Charlie and he can take his place in terms of winning immunities

[00:47:35] he needs to take out Charlie so I think it comes down to who he's more similar to and who he

[00:47:40] can actually replace him again that's what it comes down to from me at least yeah I think

[00:47:44] that as we talk about it I actually think Maria would be a good option because of the Q

[00:47:48] connection because I do think that it's more like a social thing for him and also because

[00:47:52] he is closer to Charlie I mean we had that secret scene a couple of weeks ago where he

[00:47:56] and Maria had like a pretty bad interaction and Charlie came and you know comforted him

[00:48:01] and we've seen that music connection from the beginning so Charlie would be very upset I think

[00:48:05] if he was blindsided Maria was taken out but it still might give Ben some other option even

[00:48:09] if he wants Charlie gone next you know in case Charlie wins immunity like better to have

[00:48:13] the closer connection in the game so you know and then you just have to cover physically so

[00:48:17] the Charlie is now not the challenge piece that wins every immunity which I think I probably

[00:48:21] rely on a little more so I actually do think for him as much as I'm saying Maria made such

[00:48:25] a good move and you know she's gonna like hopefully get through it I do think it behooves

[00:48:31] a majority of people next week to take out Maria specifically for a bunch of different reasons

[00:48:36] but it's about how well is she playing to know that to protect that to use Q and for

[00:48:39] Charlie especially to use Ben so that they make someone like Ben makes a move out of his best

[00:48:43] interest to stay with them when I don't think that he should so how optimal will people be

[00:48:50] because often in Survivor they are not that's going to come down to that it also comes down

[00:48:54] to how well can Ben deflate a situation if he does choose you know Charlie or or Maria

[00:49:01] like that again plays a huge part in in Survivor if he's going to make a big move like that he

[00:49:07] has to be prepared to be able to explain himself to be able to manage his threat levels

[00:49:11] to be able to make sure not to piss anyone off that could be his ticket to the end

[00:49:17] so yeah it comes down to so many different factors which is why I love this game so much

[00:49:22] yeah a couple of things I want to talk about so in terms of blowing up the game

[00:49:27] let's talk about this for Liv because a couple of things have been shared around and I want

[00:49:30] your take on two kind of plans that I've seen I know Rob was talking about this I think on the

[00:49:34] podcast I saw Oma tweet the first one being should Livs who's been given the key she's

[00:49:39] supposedly the key holder should she stand up after the votes are read and be like not read

[00:49:44] sorry that would be stupid Tiffany would be walking out the door a little bit earlier Liv

[00:49:47] um after the votes are cast and it's time to play your idol should she stand up and say

[00:49:51] Tiffany play the idol she flushes the idol Q goes out of the game she takes this gets

[00:49:55] this big move on her resume and it's all her and it's not Maria's move what do you think

[00:49:59] of that as a concept I think it's it's it's good on paper but I think it's fun

[00:50:08] it's so fun it's amazing I love you like that but I think she needs to

[00:50:15] lay a bit lower I really do after after everything that has happened if she does that everyone is

[00:50:22] going to be like okay Liz is officially the most explosive player and the most destructive player

[00:50:29] and who knows what's going to happen next if we do want to work with Liz and it's going

[00:50:33] to cut all ties to all potential allies fully so I don't think um that it would have been

[00:50:39] the moment but I think for after in terms of gaining trust gaining allies I don't think

[00:50:46] I don't think it's the best move no and I think she's sure of it I think for me the big sticking

[00:50:52] point on that is that I think even with a move like that Liz is still she said this like she's

[00:50:57] running up here on the way that she's perceived like as we saw like someone like Raymond he made

[00:51:00] that one big move and he got ownership over it but it was like one big move and he was still

[00:51:04] fighting the perception that I think might have made a final tribal council difficult

[00:51:07] in some iterations for him regardless so you can't just make the one move and have it necessarily

[00:51:13] change your whole perception I mean we have seen winners like Mary Ann made a great move um but

[00:51:18] I think was building kind of on a perception and got herself through to a favorable final

[00:51:23] tribal council where like Mike didn't do as well and then she you know really pulled it

[00:51:27] out as well so it's how you kind of build on something for me it's not just like doing

[00:51:31] one thing um and so it would but it would it would put her out there it might isolate

[00:51:35] her and definitely might make that that road to the end harder but I still think she wants to sit

[00:51:40] next to Q and Venus at the end to me that's the three that all three of them should be looking

[00:51:44] at um in you know giving any of them the best chance of winning Q, Liz and Venus so

[00:51:51] I think that voting out someone like Q even with a big move like this could be a game

[00:51:55] losing move for Liz because I don't know that there are two other people she can beat in a

[00:51:59] final three can she beat Ben maybe with the big maybe relying on that can she beat Kenzie who

[00:52:04] so liked or Charlene Maria like I don't think so and I actually think this makes last week when

[00:52:09] she was attempting to vote out Q look even worse in retrospect like you actually really need that

[00:52:13] guy and you can't just be emotionally against him like that's one of you have to be able to beat

[00:52:18] two people at the final tribal council at every time and she at any time and she seems very

[00:52:22] aware of the perception of her that that's difficult that's why she made the Tevin move

[00:52:26] so that she could start getting credit and have people want to vote for at the end she

[00:52:29] seems to know that she's running uphill with that so I wouldn't take out Q um especially because

[00:52:35] like you but then you're taking out as well someone who could be like a shield the target

[00:52:38] an instigator you've like you've kept all three of the seagulls together who are really powerful

[00:52:42] and you've kept Tiffany and Kenzie together she doesn't even know Kenzie was turning on

[00:52:45] Tiffany you've empowered a bunch of groups and taken out someone who is like possibly

[00:52:49] a goat for you hopefully best case scenario and also like a shield and an instigator that

[00:52:54] feels like a loss for me yeah 100 couldn't agree more I think um yeah when it when it comes to Q

[00:53:01] Q it Q has a very hard path I think going down I I really do I think Q probably maybe has one of

[00:53:11] the hardest parts out of all of them but I think yeah no if if she got Q out that's just

[00:53:17] one less person to hide behind and in a game that's gone so far at that point you

[00:53:23] just can't have something like that so yeah I think she made the right decision or more

[00:53:29] I think she made the right decision voting for um voting the way she did definitely I don't know

[00:53:35] that this was a decision like is she thinking of these moves especially in her like hunger

[00:53:39] adult state I don't know but I do think had she thought of if she's going through all

[00:53:43] these permutations like good on her if she's just not thinking it through that I'm you

[00:53:48] know less high on because I feel like you want to be able to think about what you're

[00:53:52] doing and how you're not splitting the majority on their terms if there's a better option and I do

[00:53:55] think there was a better option and Nick I dancer tweeted this and I love it and I think it's a

[00:53:59] game-winning move like I don't I don't think that Liz needs to be needs to kind of hide in

[00:54:04] the shadows I feel like her issue is that she doesn't have respect so you do want to get

[00:54:08] respect but in a way that makes sense at all you don't just turn on people to turn on them

[00:54:12] this season feels like it's not understanding that like you want to turn where it makes

[00:54:15] sense and Nick tweeted this could you have turned it around on Maria this is how it would

[00:54:20] work and this is what it would do you go to Tiffany and Kenzie you're like this is what's

[00:54:24] happening play the idol and the three of us are going to win on what would be then like a three

[00:54:28] one vote leave Venus out of it because you don't need her and that seems to be the MO of the

[00:54:32] season sometimes um and then what you've done is you've isolated Charlie you've isolated Q you've

[00:54:41] kept the chaos and division of Q you like so now things are chaotic um you still have

[00:54:46] big threats in front of you Charlie Tiffany and Kenzie and it's very much your move like

[00:54:51] you're not empowering big whole groups together Seeger have been cracked

[00:54:55] I mean she again she doesn't know that there's been this division in Tiffany and Kenzie so you

[00:54:59] aren't powering that group but in cracking the Seegers and also just how fun it is and

[00:55:03] then owning it but still having some runway like I think this is a game-winning move

[00:55:07] possibly yeah it really really I think that's the perfect move I think that's the perfect

[00:55:13] move because he does break them up like you said I think um he he builds a lot more trust with um

[00:55:20] you know Tiffany and Kenzie as well should you do that because look at the end of the day she

[00:55:25] needs she's not I think she's been seen as such a reckless player that she really needs to start

[00:55:32] gaining a lot more trust than what she currently has um so I think that move would

[00:55:38] have been chef's kiss and that would have really raised her up in the ranks but at the

[00:55:42] same time not being seen as much of a threat you know the current the current players it

[00:55:49] it depends how she would have communicated that it's as simple as that if she would have went to

[00:55:53] Kenzie and and and Tiff and Q for example um and said okay here where the votes are going I really

[00:56:01] like work with you guys moving forward um I think we could be a strong four xyz if she

[00:56:05] worded it the proper way as well I think it could have been seen as you know not as big

[00:56:11] of a move in front of everybody else and she still could have hidden the shadows it all comes down

[00:56:16] to communication at the end of the day you can make a big move look like the smallest move

[00:56:20] and I think she could have done that and I reckon that would be such a good play but

[00:56:25] yeah what it's always the ones I think I would rely on just the three because she doesn't

[00:56:30] actually need a majority it does mean you're coming back with a minority into seven but

[00:56:34] you've also just gotten so much chaos like I don't think that the other four are against

[00:56:38] you because other four are like Charlie Ben without any connection to Q with Maria gone

[00:56:43] Q and Venus like I feel like you can kind of rely on that being just like

[00:56:47] an absolute cluster that you can move forward with it and just have at that point other

[00:56:52] threats be really really vulnerable but if she wanted to consolidate I'd probably go to

[00:56:55] like a Venus um the issue is going to like these chaotic players as we saw with them coming

[00:57:00] to Liz like always has the risk of them blowing it up so you kind of want to keep it

[00:57:05] tight um but yeah the fact that she could have done this and then she didn't like I think they

[00:57:11] obviously chose the right target who wasn't going to think to do that or who's not the type of

[00:57:14] player to do that but she really could have and she could have done it in a it would just

[00:57:18] have been a really good time as well like that would have been truly one of the better

[00:57:21] moves I've ever seen it would have been perfect timing yeah damn it so is the what ifs

[00:57:27] what if what if curvy and ferris made it to final two what if we'll never and this

[00:57:33] this is a really fun part of podcasting as well because I feel like this all like

[00:57:36] Maria's move was so great in and of itself but then you look at like the numbers Maria has to

[00:57:40] use me like what if they turn it back on them like this was a big thing like Jesse's Cody

[00:57:44] movie but then what if they do the blind side on the blind side on the blind side

[00:57:47] and that does take to be fair us all having eaten the burgers that the show influenced us

[00:57:52] to get and having I would say sleep my cat has been keeping me up a lot but then you

[00:57:57] know you think it through but for Liz she did not have necessarily the resources to be able

[00:58:03] to think it through because let's let's get to the the drama of the episode because you did not

[00:58:08] take her to Applebee's um what are your thoughts on this because this has been a highly debated

[00:58:14] topic it's kind of like there's been topics of like accessibility Liz playing how much should

[00:58:19] she be kind of like taken care of by the show how much is this on cue was she being

[00:58:23] entitled give me the take on Applebee's Gate I guess is the the name of the drama

[00:58:30] yeah this was really interesting for me for me to watch because if I didn't go on Survivor

[00:58:37] I would have probably laughed my head off watching this thing and being like this is

[00:58:41] incredible but you still did a little bit yeah I did I do oh trust me if I was there

[00:58:47] I could just imagine the zoom in on my reaction when she grows up I can imagine too yeah um but

[00:58:55] honestly watching it I really really felt for her I really did like I felt so bad for her and

[00:59:01] I was almost like I don't know I was almost looking down on cube in a way being like just

[00:59:08] take just take her just take the it felt like and and he he took Tiff and Kenzie it's

[00:59:15] like Tiff he took Tiff after what happened like we've all seen what happens when you try to take

[00:59:22] your enemies to lunch and try to like resolve things especially like when when that blowup

[00:59:29] happened that at tribal it was just like come on like number one if you take Liz she will be

[00:59:36] forever grateful number one easily number two just like just take the bloody girl just take

[00:59:43] like Eden like I think he would have given him a lot more power in the game especially in a time

[00:59:49] where he needed numbers I think if you took Liz she would have done anything he would have said

[00:59:54] um so yeah no I think I I kind of disagree with um his choice uh because we've all seen

[01:00:02] what happens when you know you take your enemies some most of the times it doesn't

[01:00:07] work sometimes he does but most of the time I feel like it really doesn't um and I think

[01:00:14] Liz's reaction was completely justified I felt for her really yeah I do honestly because I

[01:00:21] wanted to do the exact same thing when I won the toothbrush at the office yeah I would

[01:00:27] definitely do the exact same thing yeah it was really really hard um but look it's it's

[01:00:36] emotional and I don't think a lot of people realize it is such a hard game especially when

[01:00:40] you're starving like that you can't even have coconuts like what is she actually eating

[01:00:45] can nothing I understand that she has she had the sandwiches at the split tribal which was

[01:00:50] I'm trying to work out how many days ago there was that was what three episodes ago

[01:00:53] like I'm not meaning to be dismissive but it probably was like like four days ago

[01:00:57] four or five days so she legitimately hasn't eaten anything in four days is that like am I

[01:01:02] understanding that correctly seems as such because they haven't they haven't had rice they

[01:01:05] didn't step out for the rice she did cue did actually ironically um and so it seems like

[01:01:10] they're probably out of rice and I mean I can look up what day that was yeah but yeah

[01:01:16] I can't think of anything she would have eaten since that day like ask yourself like if you

[01:01:21] haven't eaten a meal in a couple of hours we're already hangry so I think like look she

[01:01:27] she could have like just tried to ease back on on it but like I think everyone watching

[01:01:33] her like um on the tribe there would have been like okay like we get it the poor girl hasn't

[01:01:37] eaten a couple of days if you want to scream for the next 30 seconds by all means it's justified

[01:01:42] I get it whatever um so maybe she shouldn't have went as hard as she did on cue but I

[01:01:48] think her emotions are justified I really do I I really really felt for watching watching it

[01:01:53] also giggled here and there but all in all and also Venus stepping back from that that was

[01:02:01] incredible I loved that so much and the immediate mood change of okay sorry back to your usual

[01:02:07] usual program of like oh that was just amazing so um yeah I felt for her it really I could

[01:02:15] definitely relate to something like that um obviously not to her level of not eating

[01:02:19] for that long but I think you know the game's emotional you haven't had food in what four

[01:02:23] days um yeah like you also have like an emotional connection to Applebee's I guess

[01:02:30] um so yeah I think I think it's justified I think people need to go be easy on her

[01:02:36] well okay so the soda vote where she ate the sandwiches was day 14 this is day 18 um I mean I

[01:02:42] feel like the emotional connection to Applebee's that's not anything listen to the sentence

[01:02:49] like that's not I I this is my take and I do I think I disagree on large parts because

[01:02:55] I feel like I I think that she can be I think she's entitled to be upset that's a hard situation

[01:03:01] and I do think that the game should be operating with more accessibility in this way like they

[01:03:07] allow people to have you know kind of basic medication there was some reward she couldn't

[01:03:12] eat like the fish reward because of her allergies that to me is crazy like she and her tribe have

[01:03:16] won this reward you will always accommodate her surely in a reward I think that goes without

[01:03:20] saying and I honestly think this might be a little bit uh like survivors gone so soft

[01:03:24] I think they could accommodate accommodate her at camp with like a small amount of something she

[01:03:29] could eat that's like commensurate with the coconuts like I think that that's pretty minor

[01:03:33] accessibility with someone who has like medical food intolerances I say this as someone who

[01:03:37] was married to someone with pretty large food intolerances one of the major reasons he won't

[01:03:43] go on survivor the other one being that I'm like you can't go on survivor then I can't

[01:03:46] cover it that's so unfair um so um so I do think that she can be upset I just I I think

[01:03:52] that she shouldn't it was unfair to put it on cue so much was put on cue her not being in the

[01:03:57] split vote was put on cue yeah still don't understand why I feel like maybe that was

[01:04:01] just they thought she was too close to hunter um I don't think that's a cute thing I think that

[01:04:06] the how much she was putting on cue to me was a little entitled I don't think that he

[01:04:11] owes her anything she had just voted for him the only person who actually thought he was

[01:04:15] going home everyone else was in the split vote um the hunter but hunters gone um and

[01:04:21] she as he as he said like Maria came to him she didn't even come after something so sorry um

[01:04:26] you know and that would have been a good social play as we've said for Maria and even if she had

[01:04:31] he doesn't know anyone anything in this game it is his game like like it's going to happen

[01:04:37] coming up that none of them step out for ice except Kenzie none of them stepped out for ice

[01:04:41] a couple of episodes ago for their game they want to play and win immunity for their game

[01:04:45] this is Q's game who he takes on reward can be very very important you know game winning

[01:04:49] alliances have been formed at especially overnight rewards we've spoken about that

[01:04:53] with like the spa reward how important it can be to have that time away especially when time is

[01:04:58] so precious in a shorter game I think that it's Q's prerogative to choose who he wants

[01:05:03] and yeah do you think do you think that him choosing Tiff over Liz was a better move

[01:05:09] for his game then I do and we look at Q there was not a lot of social headway to be

[01:05:16] made for Q you know like he's he's well in depth socially as we've spoken about

[01:05:21] but for a couple of reasons firstly I do think it looks kind of bad and there's a secret scene

[01:05:25] before the challenge where Liz is like begging people it seems like almost everyone else maybe

[01:05:29] not Tiffany but I don't know almost everyone else would have given Liz the reward um so

[01:05:36] it might look bad socially but I also feel like the Q drop in the ocean at the moment

[01:05:40] secondly I think trying to make up with Tiffany and Kenzie could be useful and Tiffany even said

[01:05:48] in her ex-interview like they probably weren't going to work together again it was too far

[01:05:51] gone from that but he did apologize they did have a really good conversation and they did

[01:05:55] make headway that could be a jury vote one day I think there was more to gain there I

[01:05:59] think Tiffany and Kenzie are even though Tiffany's about to go but due to the threat

[01:06:02] level I think they're more powerful players Liz doesn't have a lot to bring other than her

[01:06:06] own vote can be important as Maria like scoops up Q but I really feel like she's not bringing

[01:06:12] a lot we see this on awards all the time I'm reminded of like season 42 it's like I'm going

[01:06:17] to take all the people that haven't eaten not you Romeo like people just care less about

[01:06:22] the people that bring less capital and bring less power he he I think made pretty good

[01:06:28] choices for the bad position he was in we saw Mark do something similar using food and

[01:06:33] opportunity and time to try and you know broker something and I think taking Maria was essential

[01:06:38] like the only other thing that I would have done if I was hit is possibly take like the three

[01:06:42] Seagulls but I think that's less dynamic um and very transparent and you're kind of putting

[01:06:48] all your eggs in that basket I thought that you know he brings Maria he like rewards that

[01:06:52] relationship in that way she's powerful doesn't necessarily need someone like Charlie once he

[01:06:57] already has Maria who's like in that pair and then tries to make up with Yanu I thought

[01:07:02] I thought it was fine from a relationship standpoint from a structural standpoint it

[01:07:06] kind of sucked that the plan was then like Yanu and Seagull are going to go against these two

[01:07:12] kind of minor players and live in Venus which they're not going to do the fact that they

[01:07:16] weren't going to do that was what caused the whole divide to begin with people didn't want

[01:07:20] to just waste the vote on someone like Venus so that structurally didn't work for me

[01:07:23] but from a relationship standpoint in a bad situation I think it was fine and I think that

[01:07:28] he's like entitled to use the reward that he won that he earned to make some strategic

[01:07:33] headway and make his own decisions at that point definitely I just think look I'm not I don't

[01:07:39] think it was a bad decision I just think that if he swapped out Tiff for Liz maybe all he

[01:07:48] needs is to just get in with Kenzie to be able to get in with Tiff like I don't I

[01:07:52] don't know yeah but it's so personally divided it's not like oh Maria and Charlie

[01:07:56] you'll kind of do the same thing like they're so individually broken that he kind of like he

[01:08:01] kind of he really owed them both an apology which he delivered in the form of Applebee's

[01:08:05] yeah yeah I don't know that's a good campaign for Applebee's say you're sorry with Applebee's

[01:08:11] like that you know look at us we're still we're still promoting Applebee's to this day

[01:08:16] and we've never neither one of us have ever eaten it right we've never so no oh

[01:08:20] no definitely not what is it is it just like burgers but it looks like a restaurant

[01:08:24] that's not like fast food like you know what I find about America is they have much more general

[01:08:31] food eateries like the Cheesecake Factory like the menu the Cheesecake Factory I was like oh

[01:08:35] this has everything I feel like we in Australia are more specific to cuisine like I want to go

[01:08:39] have Japanese food I want to go well not like yeah you know I don't think that that

[01:08:42] Applebee I'm gonna go to a Mexican restaurant I think they have everything and so it's just

[01:08:47] like general like kind of fast-ish food maybe not fast but like medium middle of the road um yeah

[01:08:55] we're getting distracted by Applebee's now as the show did the 40 minutes which I love

[01:09:01] um but yeah because I don't know if you saw yeah yeah so on cue yeah right oh there you go

[01:09:08] see I've been sceptic and infected you it took me even a second because Q is the word

[01:09:13] there um and I was like yeah right on love it obsessed with it um did you see in the

[01:09:19] ex interviews that the exit into queues that um so because they asked they were like they were

[01:09:27] like did um they wasn't making Ferris laugh is the only goal even when he shouldn't be laughing

[01:09:35] it's not good don't encourage me um so yeah so they asked they're like oh did you guys

[01:09:39] want like give up your reward to live and then Tiffany was like no um Kenzie and Maria tried to

[01:09:45] and Q said no which is so funny like how was that left out of the edit that's the funniest

[01:09:50] thing I would pay money like release the cue cut I want to see I need 24 seven footage of

[01:09:57] Q if you're gonna leave something like that out of the edit then I don't trust you editors

[01:10:01] I want to see everything what else have you left on the cutting room floor

[01:10:04] you're making me obsessed with Q now I love you

[01:10:11] yeah so look if like this blob seemed to happen after he'd not only not chosen her for the

[01:10:16] reward but then also deny two people trying to give up their reward for her which is so intense

[01:10:23] and so brutal it speaks so much to who Q is as a character and the the way that that has

[01:10:26] like really directed the culture of the season that I'm really enjoying it it's so funny it's

[01:10:33] so mean but I also kind of feel like it's his right I like I because I've looked back at examples

[01:10:38] before of people who have like given up their reward and I could only find examples where

[01:10:43] like they're split into teams of five or whatever and the teams like you've won it you've

[01:10:46] earned it and you can give it up um like in 29 that happened all the time in um like Sarah

[01:10:50] did it and winners at war for Nick but um I kind of feel like you know again choosing

[01:10:56] who you want to go on reward with he's won that opportunity he's won that time it should

[01:11:00] be his choice I think like and the thing is would most people step in to do something that harsh

[01:11:06] they would not but he was not most people and I do think if he's willing to you know

[01:11:10] really like push that from a social perspective that people may judge if he's willing to do

[01:11:14] that I do think it's his right of who goes on his reward that he's earned so I'm defending

[01:11:19] it yeah no I think anything that you do in the game is your right because it's your game

[01:11:24] and it's how you want to play and that's completely fair enough it's just a matter of

[01:11:28] could he have taken more advantage of the fact that Liz was hungry and and you know yeah

[01:11:34] it's just from a game aspect yeah being indebted to him um would she have been she hates that guy

[01:11:41] like would that have brought her back because the way she was asking everyone for it I do

[01:11:45] feel like I do really think she felt a little entitled to it and I don't know if she would

[01:11:49] have been grateful as much as she would have been like yes this is just what should have

[01:11:53] happened yeah that's I think again if he maybe if he brought her on and did she did she actively

[01:12:02] oh yeah she did she mentioned that in front of everyone that is she she had this emotional

[01:12:06] connection with like yeah oh she went on yeah now she talks about the Applebee's connection

[01:12:11] I would have taken her like if she really didn't like you I would have taken her number

[01:12:16] one I would be like okay tell me about this emotional connection with your daughter

[01:12:19] about Applebee's for the next half an hour yeah that sounds insane let's talk about it

[01:12:23] yeah yeah let's let's talk about this and I would have connected with her on that level

[01:12:27] and overturned this whole dislike for for for Q I reckon he could have been done in a very

[01:12:32] very specific way as a right person communicating that but um yeah no I don't look I'm not

[01:12:38] holding anything against Q that's his right he tried to to mend a broken relationship didn't

[01:12:45] really work yeah and also you never leave leave people back at the reward and just walk off

[01:12:52] like you just don't know I wonder if that was a confessional possibly yeah that's also true as

[01:12:59] well because that would be the only excuse yeah exactly it reminded me a lot about Alex taking

[01:13:06] Kirby yeah and was it Caroline to the reward he gave me those yeah definitely but um yeah

[01:13:16] brought back those sort of memories of like okay yeah this isn't happening sorry thanks for the

[01:13:21] lunch though but um yeah he's right it's his right to make even bad decisions but I don't think it

[01:13:28] was that bad um but I do think I feel I feel bad for Liz I said before the season I was

[01:13:34] like this is gonna be really tough for her like not eating I hear is difficult

[01:13:39] you know what what exactly she's allergic to because it seems like she was allergic

[01:13:43] to a lot of things a lot of fruit um Peter he can't eat coconut he Peter has like a

[01:13:48] sorbitol thing let me just give my husband's whole medical records um that's appropriate

[01:13:52] to do on this podcast but the fruit she might be she might be sorbitol um and then she I think

[01:14:00] them she can eat burgers so from a gluten perspective she might be okay did you know

[01:14:06] actually they said to her that she needed gluten free sandwiches so gluten might be an

[01:14:09] issue actually I only just figured out that these players don't get rice yeah I was confused

[01:14:17] in the I think in episode nine when he was talking about the whole stepping out for rice

[01:14:21] and I'm like don't they already have rice and I literally just discovered that no they

[01:14:26] don't get rice yeah like holy crap this is okay this is hard I get it now I get why well

[01:14:32] I was saying it could be hard um so yeah I feel police even more because of that

[01:14:37] even I forget that they don't have rice in my mind it's like they have rice and they run out

[01:14:40] and that's why they do the rice negotiation because that that's what used to happen where um

[01:14:45] like Angelina negotiated for rice because and they'd happened like in 20 29 as well

[01:14:49] um where they were like we don't have enough or was that the something else machete that

[01:14:55] they lost anyway there's been negotiations for things they've had and either lost or run out

[01:14:59] of so in my mind that's why it's happening but yeah the lack of rice I have my brother

[01:15:02] and I were laughing about this last night because we've often said like the starvation culture that

[01:15:08] they've done in the new era to make the 26 days it's like it's harder it's fine it's still really

[01:15:13] difficult we've always said like that doesn't translate to the point where again I'm like oh

[01:15:17] I don't even know if they do or don't have rice like it's not something that is front of

[01:15:20] mind for me but then it really translated in this episode when Liz had one of the most

[01:15:24] iconic rooms all time because she blew up because she couldn't eat so it kind of

[01:15:28] felt like when the shot in the dark hit for the first time you're like ah a shot in the

[01:15:31] dark been worth it this whole time for this one moment has starvation culture been worth

[01:15:36] it this whole time for Liz to just completely erupt maybe like it's the best it's the best

[01:15:41] argument that they could possibly have to this being like a twist that is entertaining

[01:15:45] because it's the first time that it's really been entertaining I think I would have like

[01:15:49] honestly when I watch scenes like this and like for example scenes of like

[01:15:54] Bhanu begging like it makes me just wish that I was on this season just to experience

[01:16:01] like if I got like a touch of Kelly's you know birthday ritual for her son with the flowers

[01:16:09] imagine seeing Bhanu begging all this completely losing her shit I would oh my god I'd give

[01:16:15] anything to be a part of that I would have loved that yeah people have been asking um

[01:16:20] Kelly versus Bhanu season right like that's the

[01:16:25] Kelly or Kelly and Bhanu on Amazing Race

[01:16:31] Kelly and Bhanu playing every season of every global survivor and whoever wins first wins that

[01:16:38] challenge we'll be here for 100 years it'd be great incredible I would love to see something

[01:16:44] like that I'd love to meet Bhanu I'm obsessed with Bhanu by the way like I don't know if

[01:16:48] I made that clear but I'm absolutely obsessed with him and I'm so upset I didn't get to

[01:16:53] see more yeah I also really loved Bhanu this has been a fun cast and we lost we lost a good

[01:16:58] one this week I was a big Tiffany fan I feel like she was endlessly entertaining and we and it's such

[01:17:04] a good week to have you on because implicit immunity was such a big part of our discussions

[01:17:08] last week with Hunter I felt like he should have wielded it more he didn't threaten anyone

[01:17:11] with his idol Tiffany I was concerned because I'm like look she used implicit immunity

[01:17:16] perfectly last week where it pushed everyone off voting for her but I was like but she didn't

[01:17:20] do it intentionally she didn't think she was pushing votes away she didn't even know that

[01:17:23] she was in trouble I was concerned about a misread because she wasn't threatening it had

[01:17:28] she been threatening it with that intentionality she could have wielded it the same way this week

[01:17:33] where she says you know oh well I didn't play it last time but this time really I'm

[01:17:38] really just trying to you know get the heat off me I'm not quite sure but has anyone seen her idol?

[01:17:47] Kenzie probably has yeah I think Kenzie was a big part of her actually finding I think Kenzie

[01:17:50] came up when she was finding it okay interesting yeah no I think it's so hard to have that sort

[01:17:59] of implicit immunity and it's such a risk to take and I completely understand why she

[01:18:06] sort of didn't play it as well because it's so tempting but yeah she's unfortunate that she

[01:18:12] that like this is the season of voting people out with idols in their pockets how many how

[01:18:16] many people has this been so far three the first three drafts in the RHAP draft Hunter Tiffany and

[01:18:22] then Jem all went out with an idol in their pocket every idol there's been four idols found

[01:18:27] this season randon left with one and the other three were all voted out in pockets this

[01:18:31] season that's very very much the the vibe at the moment holy crap that's insane yeah now I

[01:18:38] love I love Tiffany Tiffany I love watching Tiffany I think she she could have made it

[01:18:43] quite far if she sort of did use her social capital a bit more but you know she was such an

[01:18:50] entertaining player to watch I loved her I love watching every moment of her so I was quite

[01:18:54] you know taken back when when she got sort of blindsided with my own pocket very unfortunate

[01:18:58] for her I would be burning sorry yeah I mean as someone who wielded implicit immunity I think

[01:19:03] pretty actively through so much of your season what did you think about the way that she went

[01:19:09] home with it here because like Venus says it worked this is what's been Venus says word for

[01:19:14] word at the beginning of this episode she says about Hunter he overplayed his hand and thought

[01:19:18] I can save this for next time because everyone hates Q and then that literally happens to Tiffany

[01:19:24] 55 minutes later so it's it was so painful because in tribal council everyone's like

[01:19:30] but tonight's different it's different tonight and then like narrator it was not different

[01:19:35] so how did you kind of look at how she lets that happen do you think that she knew that the

[01:19:40] that the idol was we could make her a target like how much you put on her here for not playing it

[01:19:44] or for not at least wielding it a little bit more just because they I mean she doesn't know

[01:19:48] this but they couldn't split if she does the same thing again then they have to again

[01:19:51] bet on the fact is she going to play it and if she does I guess only Q leaves so maybe

[01:19:57] they're still willing to take the risk but if he takes matters into her own hands it

[01:20:01] becomes very risky if they feel like she's really gonna use it tonight yeah I don't blame

[01:20:07] them for not playing it because look it is tempting once you get away with with threatening

[01:20:11] an idol and it working once you can't it kind of becomes a big deal like like you kind of

[01:20:18] just want to keep trying your luck with how well you can get away with it and I think at

[01:20:24] the end of day it comes down to how you wield it and how she wielded it I think it

[01:20:29] worked so well with me because I had such a jokingly like personality where I wasn't like

[01:20:38] serious a lot of the times and that sort of suited my game in terms of whether or not

[01:20:45] I have an idol whereas in tiff I'm not sure how she's seen by the tribe so it all comes down

[01:20:50] to how you're seen by the tribe and what sort of character you are if you're a serious

[01:20:54] player it's probably a lot harder to sort of wield implicit immunity if you're seen as someone

[01:21:00] that you know has their moments of playing it up here and there of like questioning people

[01:21:06] or joking around then you're that type of character that can wield like an

[01:21:11] immunity idol for for something that long so I think it comes down to the type of person

[01:21:15] the character and player you are so I don't blame her for not playing it because like

[01:21:20] it worked once so she's like you know what let me try again but I think if I was in her position

[01:21:27] and I was her type of player and her type of character I reckon I would have been like okay

[01:21:31] it worked once I'm not going to try my luck again I'm going to play it the second time

[01:21:35] and we'll just see if I can find another idol I think it comes down to the character of

[01:21:39] the person and how they're perceived by the rest of the tribe and you need to be very very

[01:21:46] socially aware and self-aware of what type of person and player you are to be able to have

[01:21:52] this sort of implicit immunity and that's a huge factor in holding an idol and sort of bluffing

[01:21:57] idols so yeah that's my take on the whole thing yeah I mean Eden had a good point last week

[01:22:03] about how if someone is telling you not to play your idol you probably play it like why

[01:22:07] would that person want you to have an idol and I think Charlie seems to have done some good

[01:22:10] work here of like oh don't play it because next week we're going to play it like oh there's

[01:22:13] actual utility to me for me to get you to hold this but actually I'm just leaving you open which

[01:22:18] is possibly something that she could have clocked especially given that Q has been very much the

[01:22:24] smokescreen for a couple of tribal councils and it was continuously pointed out and good on all

[01:22:29] the blindsiders for selling that as well as they did as easy a sell as it might have been

[01:22:33] I mean Tiffany was the one fighting with Q last week as somewhat of a smokescreen as

[01:22:37] genuine as it might have been and then it was done against her this week so I think we see

[01:22:44] because you're someone who played an idol that you didn't technically need but I was high on

[01:22:48] that move because I felt like there was enough for you to doubt that it's scary enough and

[01:22:54] so like even if you don't necessarily need it but are cautious around genuine fear it's

[01:23:02] like with you at the time it was Rihanna had lied to you it's like you should be reading

[01:23:05] fear into that that's scary so even like we see with Hunter last week I mean they really

[01:23:10] really roasted Hunter coming back from tribal council they're like what happened what did he

[01:23:15] really have an eye how did he not play it and it was good to get some clarification on the

[01:23:19] fact that they like fully were piling onto Liz's part of the split and that knowing

[01:23:24] that she was going for Q and I think it shows for someone like Hunter who was really

[01:23:27] like relying on like small numbers like he had the fear again that you had even if it

[01:23:32] wasn't going to you know have you going home but he read into fears of like oh there's going

[01:23:36] to be a split I'm one of those targets but I can kind of like pinpoint these numbers and then

[01:23:42] the fact that he was communicating through Charlie to Liz about voting for Q so the fact

[01:23:46] that he didn't think that split could be blown out to use some of those other Q numbers

[01:23:50] is you know probably a mistake on his part but I think it shows how it's really hard

[01:23:54] to trust and read specific numbers you know we talked about like a 3-3 split of the six

[01:24:00] last week you know that would have not worked due to the pile on factor would have like said it

[01:24:04] would have given them the opportunity to send Q home with Liz and Hunter's vote so they had

[01:24:08] to blow it out it makes a lot of sense like the split worked really well on what they were

[01:24:11] trying to do so I think it's you know in just reading the fear like you did it caused

[01:24:16] you to technically waste an idol but it was a correct reading of fear so I don't think

[01:24:20] necessarily it's always on like the results it has to be on the read and definitely that

[01:24:25] read was not had here all last week even on trying to like pinpoint when it should be on more

[01:24:31] base concerns I think it's um like obviously read is the majority part of playing the right

[01:24:39] eye um the idol correctly but also cross-checking conversations have more conversations not just

[01:24:47] with your alliances like have have conversations with everyone and if you if you suck at

[01:24:52] reading people that doesn't necessarily mean you're never going to play an idol correctly

[01:24:56] you can catch someone out in a life you have enough conversations um if you see enough

[01:25:01] conversations happening and cross-checking what they spoke about with what the other person spoke

[01:25:06] about like have these conversations if you are paranoid if you are scared if you are curious

[01:25:11] about playing an idol or not and if you suck at reading people have enough conversations for

[01:25:17] you to have all the information you need to play an idol now I'm not saying if you have

[01:25:21] enough conversations all the time then you will always play it correctly but at least have that

[01:25:25] in your belt to be able to have enough ammo to decide whether or not to play an idol and I think

[01:25:31] I think that's what Tiffany did like she didn't have enough conversations with all of the people

[01:25:36] and cross-checking conversations for her to be able to assist her in playing the idol

[01:25:42] correctly so but again I can't I can't blame her like it worked once I blame her a little

[01:25:49] bit I don't know it's so I'm telling you Shannon it's such an addictive thing to get away with

[01:25:56] if you get away perfectly everyone do exactly like yeah yeah no um yeah I don't know like I

[01:26:05] I completely get it I get it like for her she she would have been like oh it worked this time

[01:26:10] let's try again let's try it again so um you kind of put some onus on her but I completely

[01:26:16] understand why she wanted to try it again so yeah I think that this I think actually my

[01:26:24] co-podcaster next week Kelly Wentworth I think she was one that did this in Edge of Extinction

[01:26:28] where she kept not playing the idol but I was criticizing it like sometimes like I think

[01:26:32] she was she was blindsided but she wasn't the target so she didn't play the idol but I wasn't

[01:26:36] like oh you read that correctly I was like you got really lucky you're on the wrong side

[01:26:39] of the vote and you weren't the target and then eventually she goes home with the idol so

[01:26:44] I like it's a that's why it's about the read for me how much is it about like the result that you

[01:26:48] get versus what you're intentionally trying to do and with the implicit immunity last week I was

[01:26:52] like I would give her three cheesy points if I felt like she was doing this on purpose but

[01:26:56] because she wasn't I gave her one cheesy point because I thought that it wasn't acted

[01:27:00] really really well but she was not doing it as attached to what it should have been which

[01:27:05] is like oh I'm gonna be a target because of my idol so I'm gonna push that out and

[01:27:08] I'm not gonna play it like got you guys and then she can continue that onto this week to

[01:27:13] either do it again or at this point play it but there is a complacency that you're talking

[01:27:17] about around you even see us oh now you're in the final six that's what Kenzie says like

[01:27:20] oh keeping it now I'm like just like just stretching it one more that's what Hunter

[01:27:24] was trying to do as well and I can see how that's so tempting but it gets people so often

[01:27:29] so I just wish like the read like if she knew last week that her name had been out there

[01:27:34] then this week doesn't go the way and then she plays the idol but it that was such a big

[01:27:37] thing to miss last week once those conversations were already happening she was so outside of the

[01:27:42] conversation that it was you know prime time to blindside for her so that was last week

[01:27:50] there's also that there's a there's huge psychology behind it so for example if you

[01:27:55] if if you're thinking of not playing your idol and you can get away with it and you're

[01:27:59] in top six for example you're saying to yourself okay if I can bluff it just this one

[01:28:04] tribal council and I play it in the top five that's a ticket to the top four so that's

[01:28:09] also something that you are confident yeah the last round when I was in the game and I made it

[01:28:15] through an extra tribal council I'm like oh okay I still have an eye on my pocket and I'm making

[01:28:20] it through another tribal council after that so that is constantly playing in your mind as

[01:28:24] well so again that's why I don't try to blame her as much as as you do Shannon you're very

[01:28:30] harsh I'm very mean I'm a mean person um no I mean look it was painful to lose her I just

[01:28:39] think yeah that's a myth like she does she doesn't know that that Kenzie um was coming for

[01:28:44] her life you know there's there's scary big misses but you know what this is the thing

[01:28:48] that she I thought at the time and she said in her ex interviews um that Maria talking to

[01:28:55] Q so openly in front of everyone Maria's down at the beach with Q Maria she's probably and she

[01:28:59] said she's probably just like hyping him up like be a little concerned about that yes yeah yes or

[01:29:04] even at least plant seeds who cares even if you're you're not as concerned plant seeds in other

[01:29:10] people's minds get targets off your back do whatever you can whenever you see a conversation

[01:29:15] that's happening that you don't think should happen start speaking to other people and make

[01:29:18] sure they all realize the same thing let them freaking be more cautious like there's so many

[01:29:23] reasons to it and the fact that they are almost defending it speaks so much to Maria's game and

[01:29:31] her social game and her subtlety like the fact that they weren't cautious of it or they didn't

[01:29:36] think maybe something's going on again it speaks to how well Maria is playing this game in terms

[01:29:42] of like her social style which again I'll sing her praises over and over again because I'm

[01:29:47] obsessed with Maria yeah they underestimated her yes yeah let's talk about Kenzie if we can because

[01:29:56] I feel like this was this was interesting like I did not like her toting on Tiffany

[01:30:01] but then reneging on it I feel like was somehow worse yes um and I think she was blindsided

[01:30:08] here which is a little crazy to me because Maria went to her multiple times even saying we

[01:30:13] should bring in Cuba she gave her the plan and Kenzie was like no and I guess really thought

[01:30:17] it wasn't going to happen and yeah to turn on your number one we can talk you know through

[01:30:23] kind of we can say it again like the meta around number ones and she you know vocalizes

[01:30:27] that a little bit more even in this episode um but yeah where do you think she kind of

[01:30:32] stands now and the way she's played the last couple of episodes like you know trying

[01:30:36] to take the shot pulling back and then like really pulling back did not doing it at all

[01:30:40] yeah uh look I I love Kenzie I thought she was in a great position um probably up until this week

[01:30:49] I think she she might be in a very very sticky situation at the moment she

[01:30:54] lost her number one even though she wanted to turn on her number one but now she's

[01:30:58] completely stuck and maybe Q is probably her best chance in terms of building a proper

[01:31:06] solid alliance um yeah now I think Kenzie might be in trouble in the next one or two

[01:31:13] episodes just like I said I think if she can get through the next two episodes then

[01:31:17] she's got a really good path to the end but I think she would be one of the bigger targets

[01:31:22] um and people are starting to be aware of it and she's also on the outside like you've got

[01:31:27] Maria, Charlie and Ben all as a three and what does what who does that leave that leaves

[01:31:34] Venus, Kenzie, Liz, Kenzie and Q and Liz doesn't really want to work with Q where does where

[01:31:41] does Venus sit in this sense and where does Kenzie sit in this sense like they could be

[01:31:46] swing votes and somehow some way but I don't think they have enough social capital to have

[01:31:52] a proper boat line so I think Kenzie really needs to up her game in terms of her social

[01:31:57] work which she's amazing at and I think she can do it it's just a matter of how she's

[01:32:02] going to do it I don't know what her path is I think Q is probably her best shot but even then

[01:32:08] like who's going to come with you on Q who's going to join your alliance Venus no like

[01:32:15] like it's going to be hard her best shot is probably working with Maria Ben and Charlie

[01:32:19] if they do stay together in the next episode so even then that's not a guarantee so

[01:32:26] it's going to be a hard one for Kenzie I reckon the next two episodes yeah losing Hunter

[01:32:30] I think was bad now she's lost Tiffany she he's relying to me solely on Ben we've seen that

[01:32:36] connection and that's a credit to her social game that she's you know built that connection

[01:32:40] with Ben and now it's about pulling Ben over to take a shot at the Seagulls for me that's her

[01:32:45] pathway and then having threats you know in the two Seagulls and then you're down to five

[01:32:49] and then maintaining it with Ben you know you also have Q hopefully as an out at some point

[01:32:54] maybe Ben could be painted as something of a threat that or like winning one immunity towards

[01:32:58] the end game there's space there to get through to a final four that's the winning part for me I

[01:33:02] still think that she has the edit I think she's in a bad spot though um I do think she should be

[01:33:06] their target I think yeah so much is on that one Ben connection and this was so interesting

[01:33:12] with Tiffany it's like had she known about it had she had a sense due to the fact that they

[01:33:15] kept telling her now that you've brought it up we do think we should try and get rid of

[01:33:19] Tiffany based on that you know little clue um yeah yeah I was kind of wondering like

[01:33:24] should she have told Tiffany like I've been hearing your name from me leave that part out

[01:33:30] I've been hearing your name maybe we were cautious with the idol but she can't do that

[01:33:34] like worst case scenario for her is Tiffany stays because of the idol on a failed coup or Q

[01:33:42] that um that because now there's so much information out there like if she stays and

[01:33:48] Kenzie has either blown it up and they know about it or even if they don't know about it

[01:33:52] at the point where that's all been blown up now when she said she said he whatever with three

[01:33:59] people who were like you know Kenzie was coming for you like at the point where Tiffany's been

[01:34:02] the target now is on the back foot played her idol and the Seegas are in a little bit of

[01:34:09] hot water they could easily blow up what's happened with Kenzie she put herself in such

[01:34:12] a precarious spot there's so much information out there about what she was trying to do

[01:34:16] that she then doesn't go with and I feel like some of that was strategic around like

[01:34:21] oh you know maybe she doesn't want to do without Hunter but then again losing Hunter was so bad

[01:34:25] maybe doesn't want to do it with Q but then so painful that Hunter went over Q last time for

[01:34:30] her and I said that at the time but I also feel like so much of it was emotional it's like

[01:34:33] I'm not really feeling it anymore like Q doesn't deserve to be here it's such it's like an

[01:34:38] affront to the jury to keep him around if somebody wants to be here like you're not

[01:34:41] going to wear that in front of the jury individually like she just did not want to

[01:34:45] bear it was emotional and it and it put her I think in a really precarious spot where that

[01:34:50] information is out there like at the point where she's put forward the big move of Tiffany which

[01:34:54] again I didn't agree with but at the point that it's been done like you best commit and if Tiffany

[01:34:58] is not playing her idol tonight you actually can do it so she had to she had to commit now

[01:35:02] she's been left out and at least Tiffany's gone to tie up some of those loose ends but

[01:35:07] like losing your number one ally and it being some benefit to you and you're left out

[01:35:11] of the vote because that's how many loose ends you have like doesn't speak to the

[01:35:14] you know point that her game is at in the highest of favors right now

[01:35:18] if she if she does end up getting closer with Ben which in turn brings Charlie and Maria and

[01:35:26] they all stick together I think that's a really good position though do you want to be with

[01:35:31] Charlie and Maria like then I feel like she's at the bottom of that and their biggest yeah I

[01:35:36] know but but then what other alliance is she bringing together her and Ben need to pick up

[01:35:41] game players like Venus and Liz who just said saw Maria make this move and say Maria's and

[01:35:47] just made the move but to me those are all different type of players that are very

[01:35:53] desperate it's hard yeah like I think that is a much harder move to sort of pull up and to

[01:36:00] just get in with Ben Charlie and Maria or you know a tribal or two and then use whoever's

[01:36:06] left to turn on not a lot left not a lot left I don't think you have the time at the

[01:36:10] point that you could try take out Q because that at least depowers Maria if you're leaving Q

[01:36:15] Maria and Charlie in the game to six like she's been blocked out of I think any agency

[01:36:20] and even so like they're just the big physical threats the big jury threats we're getting

[01:36:24] pretty close to the end not a lot of rounds you'd need to get rid of them at six and five

[01:36:28] at that point it would be you know you'd have to take the straight shots kind of allow

[01:36:32] like the last person to win an immunity and then get to four have the chance to make fire

[01:36:36] which I kind of feel like Maria and Charlie would both be good at I think like next it's

[01:36:39] essential to take out if not Q which is like a half fine move then definitely like definitely

[01:36:46] Charlie and Maria and that's why I credit Charlie and Maria with the position they put

[01:36:50] themselves in because they should be targets and they should be numbers against them but

[01:36:53] those numbers are so disconnected that while it makes sense on the chessboard it might be

[01:36:57] really really difficult to put into practice and that is a credit to the position they put

[01:37:01] themselves in exactly I reckon those I reckon yeah Ben Charlie Maria are probably in the best

[01:37:08] position and and I think you're right I think that's that's Kenzie's best shot to get in

[01:37:12] with Ben and to take out Charlie Maria it's just a matter of how deep is she with Ben

[01:37:17] compared to high goals yeah yeah yeah yeah compared to Seager and Ben you mean exactly

[01:37:24] yeah yeah that's the tug of war yeah that's I think that's yeah probably her best shot

[01:37:31] yeah so I mean I wanted to get your thought on the meta of gotta check out my number one

[01:37:37] she says it this time taking out your number one that's a big resume point and you're

[01:37:40] incredibly fluid seeds and that was like the one kind of sacred thing we talked about this

[01:37:44] with Eden last week where you might have not voted together but there was something sacred

[01:37:48] around like you didn't vote out Eileen um you know the middle-aged mafias didn't vote out

[01:37:52] each other like the people voted differently but they didn't come for their number one so how do

[01:37:57] you kind of see the matter of this you know it's such a big part of the season um I don't know

[01:38:03] I don't know how I feel about taking I don't know how I feel about taking out your number

[01:38:07] one I really don't uh again I think it's all about timing it's all about time I think it's

[01:38:13] okay for the right time and I just don't think I don't think that would have been the right

[01:38:20] time in Kenzie's eyes to want to take out Tiffany I reckon that was slightly too early

[01:38:25] um I think it's a great option for Charlie to take out Maria um at a certain point and again

[01:38:36] it's it all comes down to timing I think it's okay I think it's great I think it's a big move

[01:38:42] so long as you have the right time to take out your number one because they're your number

[01:38:46] one they're the ones that are going to help you get through to you know to a certain extent

[01:38:51] you just need to be able to perfectly time it that's the only thing and even if they were

[01:38:57] taking out like if you can beat them obviously not taking them out they're your number one but

[01:39:01] again that comes down to how they're going to turn on you that comes down to loyalty as

[01:39:05] well how low do you think they are to you so there's so many factors involved in it

[01:39:10] personally um it all comes down to who your number one is for example with Ray I would have

[01:39:16] never ever ever ever ever considered taking Ray out and Ray never considered taking me out it

[01:39:22] comes down to the person that you're dealing with and the relationships that you've made I

[01:39:27] don't think anyone I think any one of these people can turn on each other and I think any

[01:39:33] one of these people will turn on their number ones um so I don't think anyone is 100% loyal

[01:39:39] in this cast of what we've got left so I reckon strike first before they strike you it just has

[01:39:45] to be the right timing that's all well you wouldn't have taken out taking out Ray but you

[01:39:49] would have beaten him at the end so that's a good move he wasn't going to take out you but

[01:39:52] he would have lost you so it's a bad move so I do think like you know Kenzie can look at

[01:39:56] that with Tiffany because Tiffany is a big jury threat although I do think you know Kenzie

[01:40:00] would have her own stuff to speak to but I do think that you don't you don't want to sit

[01:40:04] Tiffany if you don't have to but I think you'd rather take that risk to do it later um because

[01:40:10] like you think I think Tiffany I would put my money on Tiffany but I don't think she's like

[01:40:16] 100% has it okay I would have gone in betting on Tiffany she has the idol at that point she

[01:40:22] hasn't gone home with it in her pocket so that's like I think she's maybe a bit of like

[01:40:26] she seems like the alpha personality um so I think that she could maybe get credited a bit

[01:40:32] more there but I do think that Kenzie has some great relationships that could have been

[01:40:37] a lot more likable in that sense but yeah you're right in terms of moves who knows like that

[01:40:42] that to me is probably a 50-50 I think I'd be leaning more towards Kenzie but it all depends

[01:40:46] what would have happened I guess yeah but because it's so close I would wait you know

[01:40:52] that's why it was like okay worst case scenario we end up there together because

[01:40:55] Tiffany wasn't coming to Kenzie she felt comfortable sitting at the end for Kenzie

[01:40:57] that's what she said in exit so worse comes to worst we sit there and I plead my case this

[01:41:01] is what Tika did and they just saw that that's why it's kind of strange for me it's because

[01:41:05] how is the meta kind of created where you have to take out your number one even with again

[01:41:09] concepts that make sense about differentiating your game but how is it it's a resume move to

[01:41:13] take out your number one how is it it has to be done now this isn't like a pressing problem

[01:41:17] to manage at a point it's like I gotta I gotta do the thing and that's been the biggest

[01:41:21] thing for Kenzie it's been a big thing we've talked about for like Liz um you know it's been

[01:41:26] hugely the culture of this even there have been in the new era some of the best moves

[01:41:31] made of the new era which were taking out your number one um Marianne does it to Oma she wins

[01:41:35] the game sorry for the spoiler Jessie um Jessie does it to Cody and he I still back that move

[01:41:41] like gets himself through to fire in a way that he would have won at the end um and he just

[01:41:46] needs to win you know the challenge or fire at that point and pull it out which he doesn't

[01:41:49] do but those are the main moves that make sense they don't see the D did not take out

[01:41:53] her number one and it went really well for her they just see Tika like this was an alliance

[01:41:58] that were all each other's probably most threatening final tribal council

[01:42:02] competitors but they maintain control the whole time by staying very very loyal and they thought

[01:42:06] okay I'm gonna you know have something to speak to at the end and take the shot

[01:42:10] um it doesn't obviously work for for Carolyn she doesn't but like it works so well for

[01:42:16] Jam Jam so I guess it does speak to how much you think you can win in that pair and how

[01:42:20] much you're going to put on your final tribal council performance in your relationship

[01:42:23] with the jury but I like Marianne and and Jessie did it at six like her talking about it at nine

[01:42:29] is so early let alone the fact that this culture has been created even earlier in the game I

[01:42:34] think it's so much about timing it's so much about where you sit and I don't I don't agree

[01:42:39] with just you know take out your number one to do it I don't agree with it being like

[01:42:42] something to tick off the checklist I think it makes sense in the moment you do it but

[01:42:47] often a lot later or you leave yourself quite vulnerable and definitely within the context of

[01:42:51] what makes sense is it seen as a big resume move to take out your number one for not the

[01:42:57] sole purpose of not being able to beat them like for example if if okay I understand of taking

[01:43:03] out your number one if you can't beat them at the end I can see that as a resume move

[01:43:06] but is it seen as a general resume move of taking out your number ones like is that seen

[01:43:11] as like a big resume move not considering that I think so yeah because because ownership has

[01:43:18] been such a big part of the season so it's something you can own because that's your number

[01:43:22] one so but I think also just like pure ownership also feels less I don't know less important

[01:43:33] like this all feels like you do it to do it you know like you take out you know that's

[01:43:36] what you do they get you know you can own it who has the resume move it's all a little

[01:43:41] shallow thing maybe it's seen as a as a resume move because you can sort of set feelings

[01:43:47] aside from the actual game and you're able to sort of focus more on the game rather than

[01:43:52] emotions but other than that I don't know I don't I don't think it's a it's a massive

[01:43:58] thing unless they're actually a threat um yeah no I'm not sure about that sometimes you're

[01:44:03] so unemotional that it becomes emotional it's like I'm just that strategic I don't even care

[01:44:07] about my number one it's like but yeah but you're pushing yourself to make this like big

[01:44:11] thing to show you're not emotional and that almost seems illogical in and of itself

[01:44:14] yeah I didn't I didn't back it last week but I back it less this week I think Kenzie's in

[01:44:20] a tough spot but as we talk about I've got so much to talk to you about Ferris I love where

[01:44:24] the season's at right now there's so much complexity which is awesome as we talk about

[01:44:28] turning on your number one I just want to touch on again Charlie and Maria where they sit

[01:44:35] when and if they should turn on each other who we think would win that war who we think

[01:44:39] wins at the end between them this this duo is fascinating to me because they haven't turned

[01:44:43] on each other which is again as we said unique so how do you kind of see when should they turn

[01:44:49] on each other or should they turn on each other how do you see that I I think Maria

[01:44:58] should turn on Charlie I think she should turn on him I don't think she should be sitting next

[01:45:07] to him at the end I don't know to me that's too risky there's no there's no need I

[01:45:12] reckon she can I reckon Maria do I reckon Charlie is probably one of the only ones that might give

[01:45:21] Maria a run for her money at the moment in terms of winning do you see anyone else beating

[01:45:25] Maria not the way Tiffany painted it she painted them two out in front and then Charlie

[01:45:31] the most so she's a juror I'm taking her word for it it's how I see it but it's

[01:45:35] sometimes harder to read it you know on the screen that is how I see it you said at four

[01:45:40] there's there's a fire challenge yeah so at four they um it's weird I'm sorry it's awful

[01:45:46] so at four they like someone wins the chatlet immunity challenge takes one person through and

[01:45:51] the other two make fire and the winner of auto fire gets through and then it's a like final three

[01:45:57] not a final two tribal council wow it's a fun okay wow so final five is the last round

[01:46:02] of voting and there's no pure round of voting without idols or anything like that

[01:46:06] I think five where you can play your idol into that final four um yeah I think Maria should take

[01:46:12] out Charlie at five at five yeah leaving it a little late but I think I agree with you I think

[01:46:21] yeah what's left is there's what are we at seven now we're at seven yeah yeah okay yeah

[01:46:29] no I think five I think five's a good spot it's interesting because if it's six then

[01:46:34] someone should maybe do it next week like if this you should do it at six yeah like there's

[01:46:39] not much left so yeah yeah now I reckon just like last minute for me yeah what do you know

[01:46:47] this was a big thing we're taking out like viola was like they should do it next so

[01:46:51] we should do it now so if it's at six and next week actually becomes interesting for them

[01:46:54] but I think I leave it later I think even like a five as you say because of the kind

[01:46:58] of tika thing where it's like okay worse comes to worse as fails and then I do sit at

[01:47:02] the end with them and I still have something to give like I still hopefully have a shot and I

[01:47:08] think I'd rather do that than leave myself so vulnerable to people who like if they take

[01:47:13] each other out next maybe even at six then they become such like a singular threat for me

[01:47:17] that it would just make so much sense for everyone else to just gang up on them and

[01:47:20] I think that they leave themselves very vulnerable where they're still be out about

[01:47:23] arguing the other person to find a tribal council they both have something to speak to I

[01:47:26] mean Charlie young strategic guy against the mom I've seen that film before it looks pretty

[01:47:32] good for Charlie and then Maria can can talk about this move she seems to have a really

[01:47:36] great social game they both won immunity so they both have something to speak to um I'd rather

[01:47:41] just you know rely on my game at that point then go too early and leave myself that open

[01:47:46] so I think yeah I think later for me than earlier do you think they should take each

[01:47:49] other out if they can but not soon yeah yeah I think the only person I might give Maria

[01:47:56] money at the end would be Charlie and yeah it needs to be done just last minute yeah if they do

[01:48:03] turn on each other do you have a sense of who you feel like would win that from a like

[01:48:08] relationship standpoint I mean they've obviously both won immunity so they might be a little bit

[01:48:12] protected there um you mean Maria's had Q if she can maintain that Ben has been with

[01:48:18] Charlie you think Maria yeah because she goes to Liz so I want like Charlie's one who says go

[01:48:22] to Liz but she's one who does it does she have that connection more yeah I think again I think

[01:48:28] Maria is that type of player that doesn't need to put much effort into connections to be able

[01:48:33] to get what she wants with the way she communicates with people and the way she is

[01:48:38] as a person and a character compared to Charlie like for example um how you are perceived

[01:48:44] is so bloody important in the game and again um not to keep going back to Australian

[01:48:49] Survivor but I was seen as one of the most untrustworthy people for god knows what reason

[01:48:56] how you are perceived is so important and Kirby has was seen as like this completely

[01:49:02] trustworthy amazing person because she could draw people in with how she is and I think

[01:49:06] that's quite similar to what's happening with Maria at the moment Maria doesn't need to do

[01:49:11] much in terms of connections but just how she is perceived I think is more than enough and

[01:49:16] I think Maria wins that battle against Charlie interesting well then yeah she should wait a

[01:49:21] little bit and then probably do it because even like at a point but again it's all about timing

[01:49:28] so interesting to see where that will go um just the last question before we get to the

[01:49:31] chizzy because I again have so much to ask you we spoke a little bit about Venus not a

[01:49:35] big episode for Venus but I know you've been such a huge fan give us your Venus take

[01:49:39] I love Venus I think Venus is number one incredible TV I think Venus is one of the only

[01:49:45] ones that actually do want to make moves I know we're slowly starting to see moves happening

[01:49:51] but I think um yeah she's one of the only ones that that was ballsy enough from the beginning

[01:49:57] to want to make moves and want to make things happen and just sick of seeing people just sit

[01:50:02] around and do nothing um so I'm a huge Venus fan I love the representation I just think

[01:50:08] Venus needs to tone it down slightly in terms of her relationships I think she should

[01:50:14] really just lay low and I think she she has been doing that lately um but I would say two or three

[01:50:20] episodes ago it was like she was digging herself a grave she doesn't need to be um

[01:50:27] she's really really outspoken which again I love watching but I don't think is good for a

[01:50:33] game if you don't have anything good to say or like if you don't have anything to say that

[01:50:38] could be perceived in a positive light do not say it's as simple as that so I think um

[01:50:44] she's doing a lot better than than what she was a couple of episodes ago in terms of her threat and

[01:50:50] in terms of um pissing people off and I don't think she's doing a lot to piss people off I

[01:50:56] just think people are just pissed off with her just the same thing how people just didn't trust

[01:51:01] me um but I think she's doing a better job at it now laying a bit low um she needs to again

[01:51:08] bring that Venus out of her that she had a couple of episodes ago in terms of making moves

[01:51:14] but the problem with Venus is it's either she wants to make big moves but also is very loud

[01:51:19] about it or she's just quiet and we don't hear anything about Venus it's one or the other we

[01:51:24] need to see her make moves but we also need her to sort of turn it down a bit and be a bit

[01:51:29] more subtle than what she usually is um if she does that I reckon she could do really well

[01:51:34] and I think she can turn it up very very quickly in a very short amount of time and a

[01:51:39] lot of people might say oh it's too late to make a move I think it might be you know uh

[01:51:45] too late for some people not for Venus I reckon she can turn it up in the next episode or two

[01:51:50] um it's just a matter of how she handles it socially um but yeah I'm huge on Venus I want

[01:51:56] to see more of Venus and I hope she does make it to the end next to Maria I want to

[01:52:00] see Maria Venus and a Kenzie final three that'll be awesome I'd love that yeah well

[01:52:07] she did bring up saying she's like we could really make a move here but like everyone hates

[01:52:10] Q so much like as you said like she's always willing to make the move and they still didn't

[01:52:13] go to her which is so rude because she wants to make moves but probably because Venus would be

[01:52:16] thinking like that how do I turn it or and Liz didn't we think she should have so that

[01:52:21] you know that that kind of like aggressive gameplay makes her I think a little bit chaotic

[01:52:24] for the other players especially with no trust but I hope that she and Q and Liz know

[01:52:30] they have to sit next to each other those three need each other so badly and yet have

[01:52:35] been coming for each other in different ways like you coming to Venus even still I mean he

[01:52:40] look he has to do what he can to try and maintain relationships but like he really

[01:52:42] needs Venus and Liz those are the two people he technically targeted at this reward um again

[01:52:47] I think it's fine for him to rely on the relationships he needs because he's lucky to

[01:52:50] even still be in the game but the best case scenario for everyone and like Liz voting

[01:52:56] against Q, who Q has been targeting in that way I mean I say that like I don't think he

[01:53:02] needs to take Liz because I don't think to be fair Liz wants to work with him I don't but if he if

[01:53:06] if she could that's like to me the biggest reason that you take Liz on a wall because

[01:53:09] she's my husband you need to work with she and Venus and it's so socially separate and it's

[01:53:13] divorced from any reality but like they're not going to do it but they should all do it

[01:53:18] like that's the biggest you know and they're all just I think like fighting for their lives

[01:53:21] and like hating each other as well but like those three really need to know at a point

[01:53:24] when you're like taking out big threats if someone like Maria or Charlie goes next week

[01:53:28] start looking and then Ben, Kenzie all of them go to the final three together that's what you need

[01:53:32] to do so they could start working on that that would be great. It makes me wonder how obvious

[01:53:37] the whole Charlie-Beth-Maria alliance is because if it is obvious then that's the obvious play

[01:53:46] that's the obvious move for Liz, Venus and Q to get together um and Kenzie on either side

[01:53:52] but I'm just it makes me wonder how obvious that is um because a lot of the times we might think

[01:53:59] it's super super obvious but on Ken who knows Venus probably thinks she's Maria's number one

[01:54:03] for all we know or she's whoever's number one like it really does make me wonder how obvious

[01:54:09] it is because if it is very obvious in Ken then that's the obvious move for Liz, Q and

[01:54:14] Venus to all be aware okay although we might not like each other we need each other um so

[01:54:21] that sort of tells me maybe it's not as obvious as we think it is that this strong alliance is

[01:54:26] happening so maybe it's not the transparency though maybe it's that it just like what we're

[01:54:32] talking about just doesn't exist like that emotionality of them not going to work together

[01:54:36] you know it's not like Liz and Venus are the ones who come to Q after the tribal council or

[01:54:41] vice versa where he's like okay enough of this we need this like we need each other Maria's

[01:54:44] the one to do it that's the person he needs to rely on to even get through this vote and it

[01:54:47] works for him but had he continued with his kind of structural once and he's never going to get

[01:54:52] anything he like maybe specifically once um because he has no power but like he you know

[01:54:57] he's throwing out he's taking the people in the ward and then throwing out Venus and Liz

[01:55:02] again to survive through this because it's socially available to him but it cuts down

[01:55:06] his chances at the end because they're so important to each other and it's just not there

[01:55:09] so maybe it's not about what they can't see maybe it's about just what they don't have the

[01:55:12] capacity to do that's what makes survivors so interesting it's like you three you're the only

[01:55:16] three that can have a chance against each other you three go together and most of the time that

[01:55:20] doesn't happen because they're human beings who like you know Liz just screamed at you for like

[01:55:25] five four minutes so it's not there yeah this season i realize is a very emotional gameplay

[01:55:31] season like i'm obviously i'm not comparing it to any other u.s seasons i haven't seen it but

[01:55:36] like just from an outsider's perspective and me playing one of the most least emotional

[01:55:42] seasons where everyone was just working with everyone and they would come back together so well

[01:55:48] that was yeah it makes no sense where this season is just like okay i just don't like you

[01:55:53] i'm not working with you regardless if it suits my game or not i don't like yeah it just feels

[01:55:58] like a very very emotional system which i love watching by the way i think it's fun to watch

[01:56:02] but yeah very interesting yeah it's it's it's hard because the three of them have no power

[01:56:09] which is what makes them like good kind of ghosts to sit next to each other but because they have

[01:56:13] no power they have to appeal to the power players thus emboldening the power players who

[01:56:18] will make it further and then beat them in the end so the best case scenario would be to

[01:56:22] kind of have it on the back burner hope the power players take each other out which is

[01:56:25] what's happening be like oh now we're in some sort of control and then push it through

[01:56:31] to a final three and like and have the awareness that that's your best bet but it

[01:56:34] is very tricky at this time to be like the three of us that's the way when like

[01:56:39] just to get through you have to appeal to like for q this episode you have to like

[01:56:42] have some sort of stake in someone who has a lot more control than someone like venus does

[01:56:47] so tough tough spot great game complex game survivor this is the best

[01:56:54] i i'm excited to see it well let's let's do let's get to the chizzy and then i have

[01:56:58] uh the cumio that i want to show but we'll set that up take it i'm i'm excited we i

[01:57:03] it's been played on a podcast already this week but i still think they're space proof but

[01:57:07] chilly first take away jacob seger wine scene and mc color one two three

[01:57:21] fun fact for everyone i actually met jacob seger wine scene in la and i was like hey it's jacob

[01:57:25] jacob seger wine scene and mc color like i couldn't i couldn't do one name without the

[01:57:30] other he mc color that was like a mix like that's not he wasn't there um or she mc color

[01:57:36] could be a woman never really thought about it that way and that's probably on me but

[01:57:41] ferris do you want to go first with your chizzy points or should i go first

[01:57:44] uh you can go first all right i'm giving i think it's been pretty clear through this

[01:57:48] week i thought it was quite simple three to maria it's been said it's her move she executed

[01:57:52] it the communication style i think it was best for her specifically with the war that's been

[01:57:56] had with kind of tiffany they've been saying each other's name it gets done and

[01:57:59] she wins that battle in decisive fashion two points to charlie as well protected the immunity

[01:58:05] pushes the swing choice of liz which was the right choice um he also like they're very much

[01:58:09] in lockstep strategically like they've separated for a night and even come back and are very

[01:58:14] much on the same page around we're still going for tiffany um i think seemed to be really key

[01:58:18] in the blind side of tiffany and her not playing the idol and what she was kind of

[01:58:21] trying to cook up with him for the future and i'll give one point to ben as well who i feel

[01:58:26] like you know he's part of it with sega he's really essential next week he's got some room to move

[01:58:30] um so yeah if you think it makes sense for him now hoping that he builds on it to turn

[01:58:36] next week um and then i think that that structure again it's delicate but makes sense

[01:58:40] for him so i mean those were three of the five in the vote and the other two in the vote

[01:58:44] did have one of the biggest blowups in survivor history so it was hard for me to give them

[01:58:48] points so those were my chizzy points ferris who are you going with oh like i think you made

[01:58:54] it very obvious as well i i really do want to do a different route but it's i'm trying to

[01:59:00] identify it i'm trying to justify i'm giving three to maria a thousand percent i think

[01:59:07] is playing impeccably um i think she's in a great spot with her alliance i think she's

[01:59:13] well respected and people do listen to maria there's something about maria that people love

[01:59:18] and listen to so three to maria um i have to give two to charlie as well

[01:59:25] i think charlie is in a really really good spot he's you know one the last

[01:59:30] two immunities so that's amazing to be in um he's in a very very good alliance

[01:59:36] um it's just a matter of where he he moves from here one i kind of want to go a different

[01:59:44] route but i'm trying to justify it and i'll try my best i want to give i want to give one

[01:59:51] to venus okay i thought you would based on twitter no no i want to give one to venus

[01:59:57] because i think she's doing better than what she what she was before like a couple of

[02:00:03] episodes ago everybody was talking about venus and wanting to get venus out we need to give

[02:00:08] her some sort of credit in sort of managing that threat whether or not it was her intention

[02:00:13] or not and also sort of not being on the right side of the vote but as well as again the fact

[02:00:21] that she's got her name out of it and the whole spotlight is now on q or possibly liz and it was

[02:00:28] on tiff before the fact that she got out of that is huge for me and i think that deserves

[02:00:33] at least one point yeah i was actually thinking like there's not as much heat on venus right

[02:00:37] now because q just took it all so surely she's done something right to be able to to do that

[02:00:43] whether or not it was her intention or not is a different story but hey she's in a better

[02:00:47] position than she was you know a couple weeks ago i also just realized i said there's not as

[02:00:51] much heat on venus she literally did light herself on fire so there was there was heat

[02:00:56] but a different kind of heat the physical kind you have to i'm gonna find the secret scene for

[02:01:01] you non-geoblock because it's it was just funny because like everyone's asleep and she's

[02:01:06] just on fire no one really woke up that might speak to some social where are you seeing these

[02:01:12] secret scenes so there's usually one it used to be two but it's been one lately on the cbs

[02:01:17] youtube page which you need a vpn for and then delton ross puts out one every week um there's

[02:01:22] actually been some really important ones this season like often it's like them reading tree

[02:01:25] mail like something not as important um especially with 90 minutes we do get a lot of the

[02:01:30] content but like the most important like venus lighting herself on fire seemed relevant this

[02:01:34] week there was also liz begging for the reward before they even went to the challenge and

[02:01:39] everyone was like oh this is yours liz which was would have been funny had they actually had time

[02:01:43] for it and then um they've had in the past like they had this like kind of fight between

[02:01:48] maria and ben which was really interesting i feel like that's been maria's biggest misstep

[02:01:52] on the show and it wasn't even on the show she kind of came at ben really hard and he

[02:01:56] seemed really vulnerable and it was really actually a really great ben scene and then

[02:02:01] there was like a big venus tevin thing which has been referenced in so many x interviews where

[02:02:05] they like had a discussion and tried to clear the air but it went really poorly

[02:02:09] so those have been like do we see venus being lit on fire or do we see her talking about

[02:02:15] no we see her on fire we see her jacket on fire and then like her jumper is burnt

[02:02:20] and then she's like like i was on fire i'll find it for you please do um that sounds so

[02:02:27] realistic as well and so cruel of me saying i need to see

[02:02:34] yeah so i mean i don't know that she's fine kind of feels like she's been going through it

[02:02:39] but um she's not she's fine physically yeah so okay this was played on the draft check-in if

[02:02:47] you didn't watch it the draft check-in you should because it was fun but i think i'm still

[02:02:52] gonna play the cumio here by the way so what happened was matt benjamin great listener of

[02:02:56] the podcast after last week where i begged for a cumio he bought me the cumio which was not my

[02:03:00] intention but i'm glad that it happened um cumio was taken off q is using it i'm like you haven't

[02:03:06] you know like trademark but also it's fine um and matt got a lot of context in so let's

[02:03:12] play this from q because it's just that good and if you've heard it multiple times on social

[02:03:16] media and the draft you're lucky and you're welcome because i watch it like 10 times and

[02:03:20] i laugh every single time so let's play let's move on hey shannon what's up i hear that you

[02:03:28] have a birthday that just passed so this is of course is a late birthday gift sort of to your

[02:03:35] picking of me on your team right you didn't pick me first round you picked me whenever

[02:03:42] after the first round that sucks but i just want to come on and say happy birthday to you

[02:03:49] or should i say happy late birthday to you because you drafted me late so there's only

[02:03:54] right that i come on here late and wish you happy birthday i would sing to you i really would

[02:04:01] but it's no longer your birthday so guess what i'm not going to sing to you i'm just going

[02:04:05] to tell you happy late birthday late drafter that's you shannon but oh i need a sound

[02:04:13] like just put just i said this on the drop my birthday was in february i don't know like you

[02:04:20] see which is great it's closer to the next birthday to get another cumul which is all

[02:04:24] i want in the world i drafted q in the third round of the draft i did draft him though i'm

[02:04:28] not getting a lot of credit for the fact that i drafted him he's the only player that

[02:04:31] i have left in my team um anyway let's get skin but that's just the context currently

[02:04:36] anyway we'll keep going also also there's no thing about being delusional and you put the

[02:04:43] little cute cue in the middle of the q general yeah you better believe in me shannon did you

[02:04:50] believe in sari your favorite player of all time because if you didn't why did you draft her and

[02:04:58] why is she your favorite player of all time you have to start believing in the people that

[02:05:02] you pick i don't okay this is the point where i've lost completely the thread of the two months two

[02:05:08] and a half months late birthday cumio from q and anyway i was still with it but i don't know

[02:05:13] what's going on sari she is my favorite survivor player i don't know what i don't

[02:05:16] know why she's part of this i don't know why she's involved she's not on the season

[02:05:20] i've never drafted her i've never done a draft of a season she's been in

[02:05:23] i'm now i'm losing the thread but i'm but i'm excited so let's let's keep going don't get

[02:05:28] nervous get excited you're down to the last one on your team rally behind me and let's get this

[02:05:36] thing done or else you're gonna have to cancel your birthday next year and it'll be a big mistake

[02:05:46] to deny me entry to that party because you don't choose me first

[02:05:52] okay so now now i'm having a birthday party for my canceled birthday and i'm denying q and which i

[02:05:57] never do i doubt he'd be coming to australia for and at my 32nd birthday i probably won't have a

[02:06:01] party it's always during australian survivor my birthday passes like it's so because i'm so

[02:06:06] busy so i probably will i pretty much do cancel my birthday most years because of australia

[02:06:11] so he actually is right about that but seriously happy birthday to you i hope you're having a

[02:06:16] great time your friend matt got you a cameo thanks matt and i make sure that i pour my heart

[02:06:23] into each and every cameo but you took my heart when you drafted me not first so please never

[02:06:30] do that again okay can we agree on that yeah happy birthday enjoy your time love you peace

[02:06:36] enjoy your time love you peace love you too q like i what do you think that's incredible

[02:06:46] this isn't video recorded isn't it is no oh my god my facial expressions to all of that that's

[02:06:55] i love that i love how petty he was in that video

[02:06:59] that's i don't know what to buy q i want to do me yes he and he's using humo he's not really

[02:07:05] loving decusional which is my favorite word that i've come up with and also i do believe

[02:07:09] in q like i fully am so so much that he's going to win now like i was because i got that like

[02:07:15] the day before the episode i was like i'm gonna be pretty pissed off if he leaves this week

[02:07:18] now because he really put me up it would be really quite a blind side of me to do that

[02:07:23] and they get voted out i have obviously mother's day coming up i have um my my dad's birthday

[02:07:30] coming up should i get them a q meo they're not watching the season currently but i kind of feel

[02:07:35] like it'll speak for itself i reckon if you do get him a q meo uh your parents or your mom

[02:07:43] or your dad i reckon they'll start watching the season because of q because that's it'll be

[02:07:46] very confused yeah they're really

[02:07:52] yeah why is why is he screaming at me i'm like but i don't even know

[02:07:55] they probably would prefer a cameo from you ferris and that they as we've spoken they

[02:08:00] love you and they watched your season so yeah well that was thank you matt thank you q

[02:08:10] i'm glad we've been played on two podcasts this week because it's been worth it

[02:08:13] and like i like the funny thing is like this episode obviously secretly an applebee's

[02:08:18] commercial all my content secret q meo commercials yeah yeah that's the product placement thank you

[02:08:25] so ferris this has been so fun i've loved getting to chat to you about everything we spoke

[02:08:31] for two hours about one episode of survive but that's it's good there's so much it's

[02:08:36] an exciting time in the season because it's like end game and it's a great episode this

[02:08:40] was this was a great episode to speak to you with so good i wish number one i wish we had a q

[02:08:44] counter for the amount of times you made a q joke i think someone will do that now probably like

[02:08:49] 12 or something like that but don't don't next time we'll have one but thank you so much

[02:08:55] for having me this was so much fun we could like i could honestly speak to you all day

[02:08:58] which is like ridiculous we did we did one i love it yeah this was awesome and i'm so glad

[02:09:05] about the speak of this specific episode so i really really hope the next few episodes are

[02:09:10] crap because i'll be jealous if i'm not on the next podcast and it's a great episode but thank

[02:09:15] you so much for having me i love this yeah honestly if it's better than this in the

[02:09:19] season is really as on fire as venus was because this was a great episode and the whole

[02:09:24] merch has been so fun like the season has turned it around but there are still other great

[02:09:29] because i was feeling bad for you because obviously it was your first season i was like

[02:09:31] this is not good but now you're seeing some good u.s survivor which is great there's other great

[02:09:36] seasons i will be your guide you will pay me money and then and then i'm gonna make make

[02:09:41] you one and then we'll do survive south africa we're gonna do the whole i'm excited about yes

[02:09:46] please send me that that that little chart that color-coded chart and i'll start watching

[02:09:51] immediately okay i'm gonna tell i'm gonna we'll talk offline but i'm excited to

[02:09:56] i'm excited that i seem to have gotten the role of yes your your highland

[02:10:03] i'll pay you in like a cameo for your parents or something we'll work something out

[02:10:07] that actually would be amazing i don't have a gift for them currently and

[02:10:12] i should pay you for your for your cameos i this is me just wanting free stuff i got that

[02:10:17] cameo so someone buy me a ferris cameo for my parents no no don't when i ask for things

[02:10:23] i don't actually want to please i'm sending me i do want to but don't um i needed to ask you

[02:10:29] yeah just very very quickly did you end up getting your rebel kill match no because george is still

[02:10:37] in america since the last time that we spoke but you need to get your cheesy mug i'm gonna

[02:10:41] do it i'm gonna say yes please yeah i'd love one that'd be amazing every time the season ends

[02:10:48] and the cheesy winner doesn't get their mug because i forget to do it and also i'm like the

[02:10:52] season's done and i'm like weeks later i'll be like oh my god the mug um fairs waiting people

[02:10:58] find you your cameos everything that you're doing i mean mother's day is coming up and

[02:11:02] ferris actually are there any moms that don't love ferris like you're very like the mom

[02:11:06] demographic love you that's a very good mother's day gift it's so it is so like not weird but

[02:11:12] surprising it's literally my whole fan base it's all mums anyone that ever comes up to me in

[02:11:19] person is is like a mom it's always a mom i don't know what it is but i think i've won the

[02:11:23] hearts of all mothers around australia and the world and i love that so you can definitely find

[02:11:28] me on cameo on instagram um all my links are there uh ferris basale 95 on instagram and

[02:11:35] you'll be able to have access to my cameo my twitter my tiktok whatever it is i'm always

[02:11:39] posting and i'm very active on twitter and very vocal on twitter at the moment watching

[02:11:44] survivor us so yeah that's where you can find me mainly on my instagram ferris basale 95

[02:11:49] well everyone do that mother's day coming up perfect time product placement for ferris

[02:11:53] for the cameos all the mums out there amazing genuinely a really good gift idea um for me

[02:12:01] the draft check-in as i've mentioned that is out so that was really fun where we looked

[02:12:05] back on our picks and no it all this week with kelly wentworth because rob will be in

[02:12:12] chicago and i'll be live after the episode with her talking about the next episode which is

[02:12:17] hopefully half as good as the season has been so far in the last few weeks because it's been

[02:12:21] great follow me at shannon gate subscribe to the international cyber half-up speed which that

[02:12:24] actually won't be on that feed because that's rob has a podcast but maybe she should be on

[02:12:29] that feed anyway for for not for this conversation that's one with the team but thank you all

[02:12:34] so much ferris thank you again i have loved chatting us vibe with you or as always thank

[02:12:39] you so much and i've always loved speaking to you about this hopefully we can do this again soon

[02:12:44] thank you so much shannon yeah i'm i'm very lucky the drafters were very chapelle we are all

[02:12:49] very very jealous that i got to talk to you about this episode so i was like take that

[02:12:54] that's the first win i've gotten against them ever i love that but thank you so much for

[02:13:00] having me chan love this thank you for coming on thank you to our listeners thank you to

[02:13:04] the team behind the scenes and i will see you next time

[02:13:08] australian

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