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[01:01.000 --> 01:09.000] Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob's this real back here, day 4 of our Survivor 46 preview series.
[01:09.000 --> 01:16.000] Two of days here with the man who went to Fiji just to meet these Survivor contestants.
[01:16.000 --> 01:20.000] Give it up for Mike Loom!
[01:20.000 --> 01:25.000] Yes, and all I got was these not so lousy interviews with all 18 Castellays.
[01:25.000 --> 01:31.000] Here we are, Rob. Tribe 2. Dega Misiga. We're going to be saying a lot about the Sega Tribe over the next three podcasts.
[01:31.000 --> 01:34.000] Okay, see it's a Sega Tribe?
[01:34.000 --> 01:35.000] S-I-G-A.
[01:35.000 --> 01:41.000] Sega Tribe. Okay, and so we're going to talk about two guys today.
[01:41.000 --> 01:48.000] We've got Ben and we've got Charlie. Okay, Mike, what should we expect to learn today?
[01:48.000 --> 01:54.000] Well, we are going to, as was mentioned, experience the first two members of a brand new groups of, of course, the past three podcasts.
[01:54.000 --> 01:59.000] We've done a lot of couching around. Okay, those six specific people in the Yau Nui Tribe.
[01:59.000 --> 02:02.000] What are they going to be like? Now we start anew.
[02:02.000 --> 02:08.000] Of course, if you are new to this process, these are interviews that I did out on the island.
[02:08.000 --> 02:13.000] Face to face in Fiji. We've taken that video and audio from that interview.
[02:13.000 --> 02:17.000] We're going to play it uncut, undisturbed for you all.
[02:17.000 --> 02:22.000] And then Rob and I will get together after each interview to do a little bit of a wrap-up and give our thoughts on each individual person.
[02:22.000 --> 02:28.000] And of course, you could watch these amazing interviews that Mike got in Fiji on our YouTube channel at RobisWebster.com.
[02:28.000 --> 02:35.000] Alright, Mike, so let's start with Ben. Okay, Ben is a big character.
[02:35.000 --> 02:38.000] Yes, we are starting with some might consider.
[02:38.000 --> 02:44.000] You don't go on Survivor named Ben without a unforgettable personality.
[02:44.000 --> 02:51.000] That's absolutely true. For some reason, I don't know if it just is in the water that's been drinking with all the, maybe it's just the idea of big Ben.
[02:51.000 --> 02:54.000] You know, maybe it was started back with the Brits, but...
[02:54.000 --> 02:56.000] All the bends give us a lot to talk about.
[02:56.000 --> 03:04.000] Another Ben, another personality, though. This guy has switched out a cowboy hat for a bucket hat and a pair of overalls.
[03:04.000 --> 03:10.000] This is Ben Katsman. He's from Miami, Florida. He's 31 years old.
[03:10.000 --> 03:17.000] And I don't know if Rob if we're going to be talking about the head of the Siga Tribe or perhaps the shred of the Tiga Tribe.
[03:17.000 --> 03:25.000] As this guy is a guitar player, a musician, he fronts his own band, but he also teaches the kids music.
[03:25.000 --> 03:34.000] Okay, so he's ready to rock. He's a big personality, very interested to hear what Mike thinks about all this.
[03:34.000 --> 03:38.000] Let's throw it to Mike's interview with Ben.
[03:38.000 --> 03:44.000] Ben Katsman, 31, musician, teacher. What do you teach mainly?
[03:44.000 --> 03:48.000] I'm kind of like the real-life Jack Black.
[03:48.000 --> 03:56.000] Do we play guitar? I teach student rock bands.
[03:56.000 --> 03:58.000] All right, well, shout out to Mike White if he's listening.
[03:58.000 --> 04:02.000] I know. It's like the thought that he might is intense.
[04:02.000 --> 04:08.000] So I was reading about this in your bio. So you started as like a producer and then you pivoted to becoming a teacher?
[04:08.000 --> 04:17.000] No, I had a moment in time where I ran a label out of my dorm room and I helped start a few of my friends' careers.
[04:17.000 --> 04:20.000] And I went further than I expected.
[04:20.000 --> 04:23.000] Interesting. Is music something you've always wanted to work in?
[04:23.000 --> 04:28.000] I think so. I mean, I know music's always been a big part of my life.
[04:28.000 --> 04:35.000] I was asked this a few weeks ago, but once the first time you knew music hit, it was like the Power Rangers theme.
[04:35.000 --> 04:37.000] I mean, that's some slamming guitar, you know?
[04:37.000 --> 04:41.000] But being like three years old is being like, yes!
[04:41.000 --> 04:45.000] Interesting. So was there a particular moment that made you say like,
[04:45.000 --> 04:50.000] all right, I'm ready to like move on to teach, you know, to impart my skills onto others?
[04:50.000 --> 04:53.000] Definitely not. I never wanted to be a teacher.
[04:53.000 --> 05:00.000] I had a bunch of teachers who were not positive role models, I would say. No disrespect.
[05:00.000 --> 05:04.000] But I think, you know, we live in this time where like spirituality is more common.
[05:04.000 --> 05:08.000] And I think my approach to teaching is more emotional than it is technical.
[05:08.000 --> 05:09.000] Interesting.
[05:10.000 --> 05:13.000] And so I just became the teacher I never had.
[05:13.000 --> 05:18.000] And not saying I didn't have good teachers, but I fell into teaching.
[05:18.000 --> 05:21.000] I kind of had like a quarter life crisis, if you will.
[05:21.000 --> 05:24.000] And I was like, I don't know if I want to do this grind anymore.
[05:24.000 --> 05:27.000] And so I like quit everything and worked at Whole Foods.
[05:27.000 --> 05:33.000] And like just was like graveyard shift, no connect to the outside.
[05:33.000 --> 05:37.000] And then my friend opened a music school and was like, would you like to teach?
[05:37.000 --> 05:39.000] I had so much hesitancy.
[05:39.000 --> 05:45.000] And then, you know, my first student that I had, I still have now a few years later.
[05:45.000 --> 05:48.000] And, you know, it rips.
[05:48.000 --> 05:49.000] I love it.
[05:49.000 --> 05:53.000] Are you excited for your students to eventually watch you become the survivor player?
[05:53.000 --> 05:58.000] To be honest, I was probably one of the main things that was like, all right, you got to do this.
[05:58.000 --> 05:59.000] Interesting.
[05:59.000 --> 06:03.000] You know, I definitely had some hesitancy.
[06:03.000 --> 06:05.000] Because, you know, it's like life could change.
[06:05.000 --> 06:06.000] Do I really want to starve?
[06:06.000 --> 06:10.000] Do I really want to like be deceived, you know?
[06:10.000 --> 06:15.000] And then it was like I had my student recitals last week.
[06:15.000 --> 06:21.000] And, you know, I was, I always think about, like, if I could get anything across in my teaching,
[06:21.000 --> 06:27.000] it's just like, approach your music or whatever you do as yourself.
[06:27.000 --> 06:32.000] Like there's a million Metallica's and Beatles and whatever, you know,
[06:32.000 --> 06:33.000] be you.
[06:33.000 --> 06:39.000] And in the recitals, there was a moment where that really came across and I was like, okay,
[06:39.000 --> 06:45.000] you know, like, I got it, like, I'm going to do it for myself for sure.
[06:45.000 --> 06:47.000] But I want to do it for the students too, you know?
[06:47.000 --> 06:49.000] Well, what got you on that path to begin with?
[06:49.000 --> 06:56.000] What made you believe that like your next song to play was one of survivor by I of the Tiger?
[06:56.000 --> 07:01.000] Funnily enough, one of my first musical obsessions was the Rocky soundtrack.
[07:01.000 --> 07:03.000] Rocky III specifically.
[07:03.000 --> 07:11.000] And, yeah, that, even now on the island, I have like a bunch of like mixed tapes with like movie quotes
[07:11.000 --> 07:12.000] interspersed in it.
[07:12.000 --> 07:15.000] And like, I got like, I had the Tiger.
[07:15.000 --> 07:18.000] I got Sam's speech from the two towers.
[07:18.000 --> 07:23.000] I got the ecstasy of gold from the good, the bad and the ugly.
[07:23.000 --> 07:28.000] But I don't know what was like, the long story short as I've been getting hit up to do some
[07:28.000 --> 07:29.000] reality TV stuff.
[07:29.000 --> 07:30.000] Okay.
[07:30.000 --> 07:32.000] And I was just like, because I know I'm a character.
[07:32.000 --> 07:33.000] You know what I'm saying?
[07:33.000 --> 07:37.000] And I'm like, I always avoided those things because they're always scripted and they're always
[07:37.000 --> 07:40.000] like, feel like you're selling yourself if you're doing like a music one or something.
[07:40.000 --> 07:41.000] Right.
[07:41.000 --> 07:45.000] And, but I was every time I got offered one and be like, I would do survivor though.
[07:45.000 --> 07:47.000] You know the script out here, man.
[07:47.000 --> 07:48.000] I'll tell you that.
[07:48.000 --> 07:49.000] I'm sure.
[07:49.000 --> 07:51.000] And I was like, I'll do, I would do survivor.
[07:51.000 --> 07:58.000] And then as I said, no to one contract, the season 43 finale aired and then there's a video
[07:58.000 --> 08:03.000] of Jeff was like, if you think you got what it takes and I was just like, I'm in this phase
[08:03.000 --> 08:08.000] of my life where I'm trying not to like, write the goals out and live some narrative that's
[08:08.000 --> 08:09.000] beyond me.
[08:09.000 --> 08:11.000] I'm trying to like, let life write itself.
[08:11.000 --> 08:13.000] And so it's like, screw it.
[08:13.000 --> 08:15.000] I'll apply worst case.
[08:15.000 --> 08:16.000] I don't do it.
[08:16.000 --> 08:17.000] Right.
[08:17.000 --> 08:18.000] And then yeah.
[08:18.000 --> 08:19.000] Best case.
[08:19.000 --> 08:20.000] And best case.
[08:20.000 --> 08:21.000] Hey, what's up, we're here.
[08:21.000 --> 08:22.000] Yeah.
[08:22.000 --> 08:23.000] Well, you talk about watching the survivor 43 finale.
[08:23.000 --> 08:24.000] What's your history with the show?
[08:24.000 --> 08:25.000] Are you a recent convert?
[08:25.000 --> 08:27.000] Were you watching since back in the day?
[08:28.000 --> 08:33.000] You know, I'm a more recent convert, like five, six years or something like that.
[08:33.000 --> 08:37.000] But I've been a good chunk of the show, you know.
[08:37.000 --> 08:43.000] But I do remember when I was really young, flipping on the channel and there was an earlier season
[08:43.000 --> 08:47.000] and there was like two players and they're standing on these sticks in the ocean and Jeff comes
[08:47.000 --> 08:50.000] out and tempts them with like peanut butter and Oreos or whatever.
[08:50.000 --> 08:52.000] And that only stuck in my mind for some reason.
[08:52.000 --> 08:54.000] I hope I do not cave to that.
[08:55.000 --> 08:58.000] Well, the some reason might have been that they took off their clothes for said chocolate
[08:58.000 --> 08:59.000] and peanut butter.
[08:59.000 --> 09:00.000] True.
[09:00.000 --> 09:02.000] I think I saw it live before it was like a controversy.
[09:02.000 --> 09:03.000] Yeah.
[09:03.000 --> 09:08.000] I remember it being on like VH1 100 most insane reality TV moments for sure.
[09:08.000 --> 09:13.000] But yeah, I saw, I saw, I came on board around the time of David versus Goliath.
[09:13.000 --> 09:14.000] Okay.
[09:14.000 --> 09:16.000] Which ironically enough is the Mike White season.
[09:16.000 --> 09:17.000] Yeah.
[09:17.000 --> 09:21.000] It was like, I feel like is, I'm like maybe the reality of what school of rock will do
[09:21.000 --> 09:23.000] to like eight year old or something.
[09:23.000 --> 09:24.000] Yeah.
[09:24.000 --> 09:25.000] And there was the rock stars alliance.
[09:25.000 --> 09:27.000] So you just were truly inspired to be like the rock star.
[09:27.000 --> 09:32.000] You know, you know, and yeah, that's still my favorite season.
[09:32.000 --> 09:33.000] Yeah.
[09:33.000 --> 09:37.000] Well, then give me, you know, from the seasons you've seen a winner and a non winner that
[09:37.000 --> 09:40.000] you associate yourself with the most.
[09:40.000 --> 09:41.000] Wow.
[09:41.000 --> 09:44.000] That's hard because if I could give a long story.
[09:44.000 --> 09:45.000] Please.
[09:45.000 --> 09:47.000] There's like the characters that speak to me.
[09:47.000 --> 09:51.000] I wouldn't say I associate or something, but like I've been like, I'm sure you're going
[09:51.000 --> 09:53.000] to get Carolyn a million times today.
[09:53.000 --> 09:57.000] But like, you know, I was interviewing around the time that was airing.
[09:57.000 --> 10:02.000] And I remember seeing her and how she felt that first couple episodes where nobody's
[10:02.000 --> 10:03.000] listening to her or whatever.
[10:03.000 --> 10:05.000] But she was like still going for it.
[10:05.000 --> 10:10.000] And like, that's how I felt my whole life, you know, from being a kid and everybody telling
[10:10.000 --> 10:11.000] you who you are.
[10:11.000 --> 10:12.000] And you'll be like, I'm not that, you know.
[10:12.000 --> 10:13.000] Yeah.
[10:13.000 --> 10:15.000] And then some non winners.
[10:16.000 --> 10:19.000] But I really like like Christian hubike.
[10:19.000 --> 10:20.000] Yeah.
[10:20.000 --> 10:25.000] I really like, you know, I like Cody from 43.
[10:25.000 --> 10:29.000] You do give me a lot of like that Cody vibes, even though you're obviously from like the
[10:29.000 --> 10:32.000] opposite coast quite literally is him like that easygoing nature.
[10:32.000 --> 10:37.000] I very much totally and it's not like, I don't know if the easygoing comes from feeling like
[10:37.000 --> 10:42.000] life is easygoing, but I just work on what I call transcendental shreddation.
[10:43.000 --> 10:48.000] And it's just like embrace it all and find the time to breathe and be in the here and
[10:48.000 --> 10:49.000] the now, you know.
[10:49.000 --> 10:51.000] Fransenedetal shreddation.
[10:51.000 --> 10:52.000] Yeah.
[10:52.000 --> 10:54.000] David Thoreau is like in his grave right now.
[10:54.000 --> 10:57.000] David Thoreau is like damn David Lee Roth out did me.
[10:57.000 --> 10:58.000] Yeah.
[10:58.000 --> 10:59.000] Exactly.
[10:59.000 --> 11:00.000] That's amazing.
[11:00.000 --> 11:01.000] So what does that involve?
[11:01.000 --> 11:03.000] Does that involve like your own finding your center even outside of a musical perspective?
[11:03.000 --> 11:04.000] Totally.
[11:04.000 --> 11:06.000] I mean, obviously shred is a musical term, right?
[11:06.000 --> 11:08.000] You'll probably hear on the season.
[11:08.000 --> 11:09.000] It's like my verb for everything.
[11:10.000 --> 11:12.000] Like, yo, let's go shred a fire or whatever.
[11:12.000 --> 11:14.000] So it's your smurf essentially.
[11:14.000 --> 11:15.000] Ten thousand percent.
[11:15.000 --> 11:17.000] You couldn't have said it better.
[11:17.000 --> 11:18.000] Yeah.
[11:18.000 --> 11:22.000] So it's pretty much just finding your center.
[11:22.000 --> 11:28.000] You know, I've been thinking like, you know, my day to day, a big part of my routine is,
[11:28.000 --> 11:33.000] you know, listening to my favorite music or walking my dog or working out and definitely being
[11:33.000 --> 11:34.000] in my comfort zone.
[11:34.000 --> 11:38.000] You know, at 31, I moved back in with my parents right at the beginning of the pandemic.
[11:39.000 --> 11:45.000] So, you know, constantly thinking about how crazy my life has been and then to still be
[11:45.000 --> 11:47.000] in the confines of my parents home.
[11:47.000 --> 11:53.000] But it's a bit of just like that, finding your center, finding yourself who you are.
[11:53.000 --> 12:00.000] And I wonder how that's going to play out when I don't have, you know, my Metallica songs or,
[12:00.000 --> 12:04.000] you know, my Oasis songs or any of those little.
[12:04.000 --> 12:07.000] You could pull a gabler and hopefully find someone out here who at least pretends to listen
[12:07.000 --> 12:08.000] to Metallica.
[12:08.000 --> 12:09.000] Oh, my God.
[12:09.000 --> 12:13.000] When I saw that scene and like, I have this motto, I tell my students and it's like a
[12:13.000 --> 12:16.000] creed, the older version of me lives by.
[12:16.000 --> 12:20.000] I wish the younger version of me did, which don't be a poser to yourself.
[12:20.000 --> 12:22.000] You know, I saw that.
[12:22.000 --> 12:26.000] I was like, ooh, somebody who's pretending to be a metalhead is going to get caught real
[12:26.000 --> 12:27.000] quick.
[12:27.000 --> 12:28.000] Yeah.
[12:28.000 --> 12:31.000] You know, what do you think is one life experience that has prepared you most specifically for
[12:31.000 --> 12:33.000] this game?
[12:33.000 --> 12:38.000] I mean, if it isn't dealing with children in a rock band setting, then definitely being
[12:38.000 --> 12:44.000] a starving artist on, even now I just came back from playing a few shows in Europe.
[12:44.000 --> 12:46.000] And I feel so grateful for it.
[12:46.000 --> 12:48.000] But you never know what it's going to be like.
[12:48.000 --> 12:53.000] You know, you spend eight hours in a car, not talking, show up at a venue, hope that it's
[12:53.000 --> 12:54.000] going to be packed.
[12:54.000 --> 12:58.000] Sometimes it's packed, sometimes it's like 20 people, but you still have to give it your
[12:58.000 --> 12:59.000] all.
[12:59.000 --> 13:01.000] And you never know if the promoter is going to stiff you.
[13:01.000 --> 13:04.000] You never know if nobody's going to care.
[13:04.000 --> 13:11.720] So it's really just a matter of just like sitting back and being like, okay, not going to attach
[13:11.720 --> 13:13.360] myself to the outcome.
[13:13.360 --> 13:15.600] That's the downfall of life.
[13:15.600 --> 13:19.320] You know, trust that who I am in this moment is going to open the door.
[13:19.320 --> 13:20.480] It needs to open.
[13:20.480 --> 13:24.200] Is that your biggest superpower you would say in your life is like your authenticity and
[13:24.200 --> 13:26.120] trust in the process?
[13:26.120 --> 13:30.840] Maybe in my most recent years, I feel so because I feel like who I am now as a result of
[13:30.840 --> 13:33.640] being somebody I wasn't happy with, you know what I'm saying?
[13:33.640 --> 13:38.840] Being a poser, maybe, you know, where it's like, I think when you're young and you're
[13:38.840 --> 13:43.040] trying to make it in any business, that's maybe in the public eye or something, you tend
[13:43.040 --> 13:44.560] to play a character sometimes.
[13:44.560 --> 13:46.120] Not everybody, but I definitely did.
[13:46.120 --> 13:50.760] And like, I am who I am, but I would definitely take this up a notch sometimes.
[13:50.760 --> 13:53.640] And I've learned to just kind of let go of that.
[13:53.640 --> 13:56.600] And now I feel like that's a thing.
[13:56.600 --> 13:59.040] So hopefully when I'm starving, I won't get hangry.
[13:59.040 --> 14:01.000] I'll be like, it's okay.
[14:01.000 --> 14:03.680] Your hunger will lead you to food in the next challenge.
[14:03.680 --> 14:04.680] Right.
[14:04.680 --> 14:07.200] Going from starving arts to just starving over the course of 26 days.
[14:07.200 --> 14:08.200] Let's go.
[14:08.200 --> 14:11.480] Now on the other side of that, what would you say is your biggest kryptonite?
[14:11.480 --> 14:12.480] My biggest kryptonite.
[14:12.480 --> 14:15.480] I mean, I'm very sensitive and vulnerable, you know?
[14:15.480 --> 14:21.440] I think maybe some people wouldn't say so because of how I carry myself.
[14:21.520 --> 14:28.640] And I'm very like stoked on life and I try to be happy all the time, but life isn't full
[14:28.640 --> 14:32.120] of sunshine and stuff like that.
[14:32.120 --> 14:38.080] And you know, for the longest time, I was just had this fear of just rejection for being
[14:38.080 --> 14:39.080] myself.
[14:39.080 --> 14:42.560] So I hid behind my sunglasses and whatever persona.
[14:42.560 --> 14:48.240] And maybe that's my kryptonite is my vulnerability, but you got to make your kryptonite your superpower,
[14:48.240 --> 14:49.240] right?
[14:49.240 --> 14:50.240] Yeah.
[14:50.320 --> 14:55.680] With a lot of people in season 44, that ability to like use what might be perceived as a weakness
[14:55.680 --> 14:56.680] to their strengths.
[14:56.680 --> 15:00.080] So like, there's certainly opportunities there, but it's got to be tough in this game
[15:00.080 --> 15:03.360] when you have to make the tough decisions and there's that emotional element associated
[15:03.360 --> 15:04.360] with it.
[15:04.360 --> 15:05.360] Yeah.
[15:05.360 --> 15:08.800] And I think the thing is, is I think you have to play obviously we all want the money.
[15:08.800 --> 15:11.920] It could change our lives, you know, starving for sure.
[15:11.920 --> 15:16.000] And but you kind of got to play like the money is the afterthought, like the games of the
[15:16.000 --> 15:17.720] personal journey.
[15:17.720 --> 15:20.840] And like I said, trust in who you are.
[15:20.840 --> 15:22.960] Hopefully it works out, you know, yeah.
[15:22.960 --> 15:24.680] What do you think people are going to perceive you as?
[15:24.680 --> 15:28.480] Because you have a lot of experience right from like coming from the business, knowing
[15:28.480 --> 15:32.200] that people will look at you as a brand, as a tone, as an artist.
[15:32.200 --> 15:33.200] Yeah.
[15:33.200 --> 15:35.160] How does that carry over to the beach for you?
[15:35.160 --> 15:36.160] Cartoon character.
[15:36.160 --> 15:41.200] This is like the unmade poly shore movie, you know, like the bio dome sequel that was never
[15:41.200 --> 15:42.200] made.
[15:42.200 --> 15:43.200] Yeah, exactly.
[15:43.200 --> 15:48.200] So out with outlast, out shred, a large, a very large bio dome, but you're essentially
[15:48.200 --> 15:49.520] under one right now.
[15:49.520 --> 15:50.520] But happy will perceive you.
[15:50.520 --> 15:57.360] I think, you know, hopefully, hopefully I try, you know, to not be so judgmental these
[15:57.360 --> 16:03.280] days and hopefully people just, they enjoy the entertainment.
[16:03.280 --> 16:06.960] And I hope, I hope, you know, if there's some kid out there who's insecure about picking
[16:06.960 --> 16:11.840] up the guitar or is attached to the outcomes of life to just remember everything's a
[16:11.840 --> 16:12.840] journey.
[16:12.840 --> 16:14.760] And I think the journey is more important than the outcome.
[16:14.760 --> 16:16.680] How are you going to use that perception on the island?
[16:16.680 --> 16:18.960] Are you going to be like, I'm the easy going rocker guy.
[16:18.960 --> 16:20.300] No one's going to see me coming.
[16:20.300 --> 16:21.800] Yeah, definitely.
[16:21.800 --> 16:26.480] That's how I've lived my life is kind of like that tarot card, the fool, you know, like
[16:26.480 --> 16:28.880] you're unabashedly yourself.
[16:28.880 --> 16:29.880] You're super stoked.
[16:29.880 --> 16:34.400] And you know, I'm not going to hide behind my catchphrases or every or anything, but it
[16:34.400 --> 16:35.400] is who I am.
[16:35.400 --> 16:40.080] Like I'm not putting on a front, but I feel like there's a chance people are going to see
[16:40.080 --> 16:43.880] me as this one dimensional cartoon character and forget that like there's a self aware and
[16:43.880 --> 16:49.280] self conscious human being under and maybe the time to reveal that won't be when I'm in
[16:49.280 --> 16:51.400] the middle of judgment, you know, so.
[16:51.400 --> 16:53.800] Well, let's talk about some of your competition out here.
[16:53.800 --> 16:57.880] When it comes to qualities that you're looking for in an alliance, do you have any?
[16:57.880 --> 17:01.600] Are you specifically looking for like a ride or die, a number one person?
[17:01.600 --> 17:04.560] It's hard because obviously that would be great, right?
[17:04.560 --> 17:08.880] But also those, it's like, I call it surviving, right?
[17:09.880 --> 17:12.480] You were not good with those catchphrases, man.
[17:12.480 --> 17:13.480] Yeah.
[17:13.480 --> 17:20.080] It's like, it's like, I worry that if you find somebody you survive super hard with, that
[17:20.080 --> 17:21.480] there's a target.
[17:21.480 --> 17:27.320] But in an ideal situation, it would be like, you know, it'd be cool to meet somebody who's
[17:27.320 --> 17:31.080] just like, you know, you click with, maybe it's your background.
[17:31.080 --> 17:32.680] Maybe it's your personal story.
[17:32.680 --> 17:35.240] Maybe it's something you can't explain.
[17:35.240 --> 17:37.000] And maybe it's like this greater good.
[17:37.000 --> 17:42.600] It's like, you know, the three stooges alliance or whatever that was like, they were obviously
[17:42.600 --> 17:46.960] on a try, but they also were able to look around and be like, we are not these quote unquote
[17:46.960 --> 17:51.400] goliaths on the outside, but like they came into themselves.
[17:51.400 --> 17:54.600] And I wish I could give you an answer on what I'm looking for.
[17:54.600 --> 18:00.520] But I think my feelings for lack of a better term, I know I said maybe a little bit like
[18:00.520 --> 18:07.600] Samwise or something, but I hope my feelings will attract the right vibe.
[18:07.600 --> 18:09.400] But a rider die would be sick.
[18:09.400 --> 18:15.440] I have this like crazy idea of what I call like, I would love to do a triple to cage blindside
[18:15.440 --> 18:22.200] like a face off where it's like, you have an alliance, like a rider die, and I'd like,
[18:22.200 --> 18:26.880] you pretend there's like this huge fight right before tribal, you know.
[18:26.880 --> 18:32.200] So everybody's focused on the drama between the two people, you know, and then that gives
[18:32.200 --> 18:34.840] you the power and the vote because everybody's distracted.
[18:34.840 --> 18:41.040] That is the honest comparison to my life, I was like, this is getting gruesome.
[18:41.040 --> 18:42.600] What are you doing with the machete?
[18:42.600 --> 18:45.560] It's like looking in a mirror, only not.
[18:45.560 --> 18:46.560] Exactly.
[18:46.560 --> 18:49.360] So let's talk about maybe some of those other people that you're looking in your for your
[18:49.360 --> 18:50.360] castor Troy too.
[18:50.360 --> 18:52.360] I mean, it's been a few days, right?
[18:52.360 --> 18:55.720] You're probably making assumptions and perceptions of the people around you.
[18:55.720 --> 18:59.120] Is there anybody in particular that you're looking at and you're like, I could vibe with
[18:59.120 --> 19:00.120] you.
[19:00.120 --> 19:02.640] You know, everybody's been asking me what's my thought on the competition.
[19:02.640 --> 19:08.040] And I think like a 25 or a 20 year old me would have all these judgments and assumptions
[19:08.040 --> 19:09.040] made.
[19:09.040 --> 19:10.040] Yeah.
[19:10.040 --> 19:14.200] But it's like, you know, some bird, I saw some person reading a book on astrophysics
[19:14.200 --> 19:15.200] or whatever.
[19:15.200 --> 19:19.840] And I'm like, they don't look like a physicist and then somebody else is playing a gameboy,
[19:19.840 --> 19:20.840] myself included.
[19:20.920 --> 19:27.160] And it's like, I don't, it's like I can't, I can't read the surface level vibe.
[19:27.160 --> 19:33.160] And I know there's part of me that wants to, but I'm also like reminding myself that like,
[19:33.160 --> 19:36.000] you can't judge a book by its cover.
[19:36.000 --> 19:37.000] Right.
[19:37.000 --> 19:41.000] And like, I don't want to go into this game with any assumptions or expectations, because
[19:41.000 --> 19:45.600] I feel like when you set up those kinds of things in life, you know, you get knocked down and
[19:45.600 --> 19:48.040] hopefully you get up again and never get knocked out again.
[19:48.040 --> 19:49.040] Exactly.
[19:49.040 --> 19:52.360] Well, when it comes to people, maybe you don't want to work with, are there any qualities
[19:52.360 --> 19:57.640] you might see in like someone that you are saying, this is why I want to vote you off?
[19:57.640 --> 20:05.680] I think, you know, in the last couple of seasons, there's the people who are, there's like, it's
[20:05.680 --> 20:07.600] weird because confidence is a great thing.
[20:07.600 --> 20:08.600] Yeah.
[20:08.600 --> 20:12.360] But there's this thing that I always look out for with anybody who's like too sure of
[20:12.360 --> 20:17.520] themselves, where it's like, are you so sure yourself, you're not open to another perspective
[20:17.520 --> 20:26.120] or another variable and it's like, I'm definitely drawn to people who, you know, are thinkers
[20:26.120 --> 20:30.360] and, you know, feel and have emotions.
[20:30.360 --> 20:31.360] Everybody does.
[20:31.360 --> 20:37.240] I know, I know where I'm trying to go with this, but I think I'm, I'm drawn to like the
[20:37.240 --> 20:41.360] here and the now, because let's say you are sure of yourself, but then some advantage
[20:41.360 --> 20:45.840] pops out and then it's like, you know, you didn't weigh out every option because you
[20:45.840 --> 20:50.560] went in blind and it's like, in life, you kind of can never have your feet too grounded.
[20:50.560 --> 20:51.560] Yeah.
[20:51.560 --> 20:52.560] Let's talk about those advantages.
[20:52.560 --> 20:55.960] Is that something you are like hungry to find, do you feel like it's more of a curse than a
[20:55.960 --> 20:56.960] blessing?
[20:56.960 --> 21:00.800] Ah, in the more recent seasons, it definitely feels like it's more of a curse than a blessing.
[21:00.800 --> 21:01.800] Mm hmm.
[21:01.800 --> 21:04.840] You know, it's like, what was it, Matt and the last season lost a couple of votes.
[21:04.840 --> 21:05.840] Yeah.
[21:05.840 --> 21:06.840] And it's like, and found a fake idol.
[21:06.840 --> 21:11.600] And found a fake idol, you know, but then there's that bird cage one that's super dope.
[21:11.600 --> 21:15.600] I mean, definitely if I'm presented with the opportunity, I think I'm going to take it
[21:15.600 --> 21:17.400] because no risk, no reward.
[21:17.400 --> 21:18.400] Yeah.
[21:18.400 --> 21:21.800] But like, you know, a risk can bring you to your end too.
[21:21.800 --> 21:29.520] And but I think you don't come here to play a safe game, maybe a safer game in some options.
[21:29.520 --> 21:34.600] But yeah, I definitely feel like if present, I definitely want to have like one.
[21:34.600 --> 21:35.600] Yeah.
[21:35.600 --> 21:38.920] Well, I was about to ask, I give you a scenario where like first couple days on the beach,
[21:38.920 --> 21:39.920] boat pulls up, right?
[21:39.920 --> 21:40.920] Yeah.
[21:40.920 --> 21:41.920] Somebody's going on a journey.
[21:41.920 --> 21:42.920] Are you trying to volunteer?
[21:42.920 --> 21:43.920] Are you trying to get like someone else?
[21:43.920 --> 21:47.800] I've already thought like, what's my alibi going to be if it's me, you know what I'm saying?
[21:47.800 --> 21:48.800] Well, what is it?
[21:48.800 --> 21:49.800] What's the alibi?
[21:49.800 --> 21:50.800] I haven't come to it yet.
[21:50.800 --> 21:51.800] Right.
[21:51.800 --> 21:53.960] Because I think it, again, it depends on who you're with.
[21:53.960 --> 22:00.600] But like, if it is one of those, like, you know, everybody views me as a fool, and I'm
[22:00.600 --> 22:03.400] going to say I didn't take a risk, you know what I'm saying?
[22:03.400 --> 22:07.200] Because it depends on who the other players are in that situation.
[22:07.200 --> 22:08.200] Yeah.
[22:08.200 --> 22:12.680] Sometimes those alliances you make on those like when the boat comes and then you go to
[22:12.680 --> 22:16.200] that island and it's the risk of your vote, those people end up chilling hard after the
[22:16.200 --> 22:17.840] merch, you know what I'm saying?
[22:17.840 --> 22:21.720] So I know, I feel like you want maybe some more solid answers.
[22:21.720 --> 22:22.720] No, no, please.
[22:22.720 --> 22:23.720] I feel like, yeah.
[22:23.720 --> 22:24.720] It's up in the new era, right?
[22:24.720 --> 22:29.080] Like everything is so up for grabs, as Jeff would say, that it's tough to like settle into
[22:29.080 --> 22:32.160] a hard and fast strategy because the second that you do, it gets thrown out the window.
[22:32.160 --> 22:33.160] 100%.
[22:33.160 --> 22:37.520] And that's like, that's the thing I keep coming to everybody's like, what's your strategy
[22:37.520 --> 22:38.520] going to be?
[22:39.520 --> 22:46.040] I'm like, I feel like I've been trained enough through my life experiences to have no expectations
[22:46.040 --> 22:52.480] for any situation, to be thrown into a variety that I'll understand the body language or the
[22:52.480 --> 22:58.120] mannerisms or the expressions around me enough to make some sort of calculated decision in
[22:58.120 --> 22:59.120] the heat of the moment.
[22:59.120 --> 23:00.120] Interesting.
[23:00.120 --> 23:04.160] I mean, have you been doing any preparation or has it been really just like, to your point,
[23:04.160 --> 23:06.120] I've been prepared for this?
[23:06.120 --> 23:07.120] I've been working out.
[23:07.520 --> 23:08.920] I've been spending, I'm from Miami Beach.
[23:08.920 --> 23:09.920] Okay.
[23:09.920 --> 23:12.720] So I swam like two miles, I did all the South Beach the other day.
[23:12.720 --> 23:13.720] Wow.
[23:13.720 --> 23:19.440] It was, not all of it, but like ocean drive to the pier and just been working out and in
[23:19.440 --> 23:24.840] my workouts, I'll be like, you know, shreditating on some simple mantras, just being like, you
[23:24.840 --> 23:26.360] are who you are.
[23:26.360 --> 23:32.960] You won't know until you're there because I think I guess a bit of my life stories have
[23:32.960 --> 23:35.080] always been so gold driven.
[23:35.080 --> 23:39.320] And I've accomplished a lot of those goals and felt empty after because you get to the
[23:39.320 --> 23:42.280] goal and then you're not celebrating in the moment.
[23:42.280 --> 23:44.880] It's like your ego kind of benefits from it.
[23:44.880 --> 23:50.320] And then your emotions and your soul were like already on a high before it happened.
[23:50.320 --> 23:54.360] And it's like, I very much focus on literally the present.
[23:54.360 --> 23:55.360] So yeah.
[23:55.360 --> 23:59.320] When it comes to making those decisions, do you oftentimes have a process?
[23:59.320 --> 24:02.760] Because I mean, you have made a number of market decisions as you talked about with me.
[24:02.760 --> 24:06.960] Do you have a typical routine you go through or is it almost always whatever my gut says
[24:06.960 --> 24:07.960] I'm going to do?
[24:07.960 --> 24:12.920] I mean, I think about it hard, you know, it's like what's the queen's gambit, you know,
[24:12.920 --> 24:16.600] she's like playing chess like in the ceiling and weighing out every option.
[24:16.600 --> 24:23.080] I kind of do it like that, you know, like, just like sit there, see what comes up and
[24:23.080 --> 24:26.120] then be like, which one feels the most chill?
[24:26.120 --> 24:27.880] Which one feels the most dangerous?
[24:27.880 --> 24:28.880] Yeah.
[24:28.880 --> 24:30.840] Which one is it, you know?
[24:30.840 --> 24:36.440] If you could bring one celebrity or a fictional character out to the island as a loved one,
[24:36.440 --> 24:37.440] who would it be?
[24:37.440 --> 24:38.440] A loved one.
[24:38.440 --> 24:39.440] Yeah.
[24:39.440 --> 24:41.920] I mean, listen, I know you've invoked a certain hobbits name many a time and want to jump
[24:41.920 --> 24:42.920] to that conclusion.
[24:42.920 --> 24:47.080] But here's the thing, imagine Frodo and Sam were on the island.
[24:47.080 --> 24:49.520] Don't you think everybody would be like, yo, we got to break that up?
[24:49.520 --> 24:50.520] Yeah.
[24:50.520 --> 24:51.680] First off, Sam can't swim.
[24:51.680 --> 24:53.720] So I think that's he's going to be a liability in the challenges.
[24:53.720 --> 24:56.920] I can see him holding on for dear life.
[24:56.920 --> 24:59.080] That is one challenge I really want to do.
[24:59.080 --> 25:00.080] Which one?
[25:00.160 --> 25:03.160] The whole, no, the one where you're like, it's the great in the water.
[25:03.160 --> 25:04.160] Oh, last gasp.
[25:04.160 --> 25:05.160] Yeah.
[25:05.160 --> 25:09.400] I think, I don't know why, but it's just something I really want to go for the gold.
[25:09.400 --> 25:11.200] Well, that's like ultimate meditation, right?
[25:11.200 --> 25:13.200] That's like the ultimate form of mind over matter.
[25:13.200 --> 25:14.200] Yeah.
[25:14.200 --> 25:19.840] But back to the, yeah, because if I bring David Lee Roth, that's like a terrible idea.
[25:19.840 --> 25:21.840] He'd be like, all right, guys, let's party.
[25:21.840 --> 25:24.640] And everybody's be like, dude, we're trying to just chill that, you know?
[25:24.640 --> 25:26.280] They might need that in that moment though, you know?
[25:26.280 --> 25:28.240] I know, but I think that would be me, right?
[25:28.720 --> 25:33.840] And then if I get like 10 seconds on this, please take as much time as you need.
[25:33.840 --> 25:34.840] Yeah.
[25:42.160 --> 25:43.840] Why, who would you bring?
[25:43.840 --> 25:45.480] Oh, I've never had the question flip back on me.
[25:45.480 --> 25:49.880] I mean, the lake ray, why Robin Williams is always I'm always about like about, you
[25:49.880 --> 25:53.680] know, lifting up prospects, especially because emotions are probably at such an all time
[25:53.680 --> 25:54.680] level.
[25:54.680 --> 25:57.720] Like, I always go for the answers of like, who's going to make me feel the best?
[25:57.720 --> 26:00.760] Is this for like to have in the game or is this a loved one's visit?
[26:00.760 --> 26:01.760] This is a loved one's visit.
[26:01.760 --> 26:03.840] This is like, hey, who's, who's checking in on you?
[26:03.840 --> 26:04.840] No, that's all right.
[26:04.840 --> 26:06.840] This is not David Lee Roth becomes a contestant.
[26:06.840 --> 26:12.400] Yeah, I was about to say, man, wouldn't that be a great cartoon though?
[26:12.400 --> 26:13.920] I have like five in my mind.
[26:13.920 --> 26:15.080] No, go through the list, man.
[26:15.080 --> 26:16.080] You'd be get greedy here.
[26:16.080 --> 26:17.080] Okay.
[26:17.080 --> 26:18.080] Bring a little green here.
[26:18.080 --> 26:19.080] Winter's a war style.
[26:19.080 --> 26:20.080] Get greedy here.
[26:20.080 --> 26:21.080] Okay.
[26:21.080 --> 26:23.920] I'm down with winners at war style.
[26:23.920 --> 26:26.840] Fictional character.
[26:26.840 --> 26:28.360] I'm going to go with real life character.
[26:28.360 --> 26:30.840] Obviously, Nicholas Cage would be insane.
[26:30.840 --> 26:35.200] That would be so sick.
[26:35.200 --> 26:41.400] Then I would like to have Conan the Barbarian, like Arnold 82, like when he's up against
[26:41.400 --> 26:47.320] the wall and he's like praying to crumb and he's like two men stood against many, you
[26:47.320 --> 26:48.320] know?
[26:48.320 --> 26:52.320] Because in my mixtape, it's nothing but like epic movie quotes.
[26:52.320 --> 26:58.120] Then I would probably have junior from cool runnings so he could tell me to look in the
[26:58.120 --> 27:03.600] mirror and be like look in the mirror and tell me what you see and remind me who I am.
[27:03.600 --> 27:09.480] And then if I had to go with two more, I'm going to throw Mike White a bone and go with
[27:09.480 --> 27:10.480] Nacho Libre.
[27:10.480 --> 27:12.640] Is that a black character?
[27:12.640 --> 27:20.280] 100% because it's like, yeah, in that movie, it seems like he's motivated by greed and fame.
[27:20.280 --> 27:22.560] It sounds like me in my early 20s.
[27:22.560 --> 27:28.520] And then later in the movie, it's like he finds a higher power, a higher purpose, you know?
[27:28.520 --> 27:30.120] And to be reminded of who you are.
[27:30.120 --> 27:33.560] And I feel like that movie is kind of a north star for me.
[27:33.560 --> 27:43.640] And number five, this wouldn't be like so much like an emotional one, but like a marker
[27:43.640 --> 27:49.640] of insanity, like aliens, Ellen Ripley, you know?
[27:49.640 --> 27:53.120] She showed up with the giant gun, it was like a bat we're about to slay the queen.
[27:53.120 --> 27:54.600] Yeah, get the hell away from my alliance, mate.
[27:54.600 --> 27:56.240] That's what I'm saying.
[27:56.240 --> 28:00.880] That would be like, man, that movie is the ultimate thrill and adrenaline.
[28:00.880 --> 28:01.880] So nice meeting you.
[28:01.880 --> 28:04.120] All right, my great work there with Ben.
[28:04.120 --> 28:05.120] Okay.
[28:05.120 --> 28:06.120] Boy.
[28:06.120 --> 28:08.120] Yeah, you know, I didn't realize it in the moment.
[28:08.120 --> 28:11.760] But I do think about all these months later that it totally makes sense that Ben is such
[28:11.760 --> 28:15.280] a Ninja Turtles fan, considering that the main nemesis is called Shredder.
[28:15.280 --> 28:16.280] Shredder.
[28:16.280 --> 28:17.280] Shredder.
[28:17.280 --> 28:18.280] He's ready to shred.
[28:18.280 --> 28:24.320] Probably one of the wilder answers overall about just like totally off the board answers
[28:24.320 --> 28:26.520] for like chat GPT.
[28:26.520 --> 28:31.880] Who would be great fictional characters to come out for a loved one's visit?
[28:31.880 --> 28:38.400] Nick Cage, Arnold, 82 and Shredder from the Ninja Turtles, and the splinter splinter splinter.
[28:38.400 --> 28:41.800] Nacho Libre as well, Ripley from Aliens.
[28:41.800 --> 28:46.320] I mean, that also helps that I ask like, give me, give me one and he's like, I'll do you
[28:46.320 --> 28:47.320] one better.
[28:47.320 --> 28:48.320] I'll give you a five.
[28:48.320 --> 28:52.400] It's all about the circle of fits and music and we provided one here's the paramount mountain
[28:52.400 --> 28:55.040] of family visits that I would like to have.
[28:55.040 --> 29:01.240] I mean, I also love the PG description of what a face off dynamic is like in the way
[29:01.240 --> 29:03.240] that he wants to work with somebody.
[29:03.240 --> 29:04.240] Maybe he works with kids.
[29:04.240 --> 29:08.160] So he's learned to like sanitize the way he describes the process of surgically exchanging
[29:08.160 --> 29:09.520] faces with someone else.
[29:09.520 --> 29:10.520] Yeah.
[29:10.520 --> 29:11.520] Okay.
[29:11.520 --> 29:14.520] Like, I feel like that Ben, there's a lot of variants here.
[29:14.520 --> 29:17.520] You're not kidding.
[29:17.520 --> 29:18.520] Here's the thing.
[29:18.520 --> 29:23.960] I feel like on each one of these tribes, there is an enigma.
[29:23.960 --> 29:28.040] There is like one particular person on each one of these three groups that I feel like
[29:28.040 --> 29:32.920] I have no earthly idea of how you are going to do on the show.
[29:32.920 --> 29:37.360] We already talked about the Yannu version in my opinion in Jess.
[29:37.440 --> 29:40.520] We're starting off with Seagas in my opinion.
[29:40.520 --> 29:43.600] I loved getting the chat with Ben.
[29:43.600 --> 29:53.360] Again, he is in such a unique headspace as a player and as a person, but I have no idea
[29:53.360 --> 29:59.080] how he is going to appear on this show, on this tribe, and maybe we'll come to some sort
[29:59.080 --> 30:00.440] of conclusion by the end of this.
[30:00.440 --> 30:04.480] But I'm also happy to leave it open like the the frets that he does in his guitar playing.
[30:04.480 --> 30:10.640] And both you and he referenced Cody from Survivor 43, and I think that's a really good
[30:10.640 --> 30:15.080] jumping off point because I think that Cody was probably the most colorful carrot.
[30:15.080 --> 30:22.040] Well, Mariah was probably the most colorful carrot, but the like probably the wildest personality
[30:22.040 --> 30:28.560] that we got to meet in the Survivor 43 preseason and we're like, okay, this guy's off the wall,
[30:28.560 --> 30:35.480] but it worked for Cody in Survivor 43 and maybe like if not for Jesse, potentially Cody
[30:35.480 --> 30:41.960] could have won Survivor 43 and he was playing like a really good game.
[30:41.960 --> 30:47.920] People didn't know how much of a factor Jesse was, had good relationships and you know, if
[30:47.920 --> 30:51.960] Cody is sitting there at the end of the game, then maybe he's the winner and that's one of
[30:51.960 --> 30:55.360] the reasons why Jesse felt like this is the move I need to make because I don't know if
[30:55.360 --> 30:57.800] I'm going to be Cody at the end of the game.
[30:57.800 --> 31:02.600] So I think that the real question is, you know, we know that Ben is going to be like a
[31:02.600 --> 31:11.040] wild character, but is he crazy like a fox that could like could he be another Cody type?
[31:11.040 --> 31:17.600] Well, I think if ever there was an era to be crazy like a fox, not an Eddie Fox, this would
[31:17.600 --> 31:23.400] be the one because I think on paper you go in and you say this guy describes himself as
[31:23.400 --> 31:25.520] a literal cartoon character.
[31:25.520 --> 31:30.280] He is going to be first voted off dead in the water, but let's look at the people who have
[31:30.280 --> 31:36.080] not only done well, but in some circumstances, one survivor in the past five seasons.
[31:36.080 --> 31:40.120] They have been these big, larger than life personalities.
[31:40.120 --> 31:45.240] So I feel like this is the time in the show that is the most welcome to those people that
[31:45.240 --> 31:47.320] are usually out there.
[31:47.320 --> 31:53.160] And I mean, to bring it back to Cody, he talks about this perception of yes, the cartoony
[31:53.160 --> 31:58.000] aspects, but of being very laid back, very calm.
[31:58.000 --> 32:04.120] He mentions transcendental shreddation as he coins it, which I guess put that on a t-shirt.
[32:04.120 --> 32:05.720] I suppose that'll be his merch.
[32:05.720 --> 32:08.040] He's going to have a lot of merch, I think.
[32:08.040 --> 32:09.040] Oh, yeah.
[32:09.040 --> 32:10.360] I absolutely think so.
[32:10.360 --> 32:14.160] I think we need Ben castman guitar picks like yesterday.
[32:14.160 --> 32:18.400] It's right there for the taking or for the picking as it were.
[32:18.400 --> 32:23.200] And so I do think early on, you know, I don't think he necessarily has a personality that
[32:23.200 --> 32:26.360] would like necessarily deter people.
[32:26.360 --> 32:28.480] I don't really see much like with Cody.
[32:28.480 --> 32:30.600] Okay, you're a little wacky.
[32:30.600 --> 32:36.480] You're out there, but like you have such a calm way of looking at things that it's not
[32:36.480 --> 32:38.880] like, Oh my God, you're driving me crazy.
[32:38.880 --> 32:40.280] We have to get rid of you.
[32:40.280 --> 32:42.400] It's not like an aggressive type of weird.
[32:42.400 --> 32:44.440] It's more of a passive type of weird.
[32:44.440 --> 32:49.400] I think it's such a great camouflage, especially in the new era because once upon a time, you
[32:49.400 --> 32:52.720] know, I watched this video, I would have read this bio.
[32:52.720 --> 32:57.160] I said, okay, feel like this is like a first or second boot here on this season.
[32:57.160 --> 33:03.560] But now in this new era where everybody is like looking for, okay, who's the biggest threat?
[33:03.560 --> 33:08.160] Who's the biggest threat that being this quirky character and I think that we saw this help
[33:08.160 --> 33:17.480] Carolyn in survivor 44 that it's I think just a great way to manage your threat level
[33:17.480 --> 33:23.200] of like, okay, we're not worried about Ben because he's this kooky character.
[33:23.200 --> 33:25.520] He's not putting it all together in the end.
[33:25.520 --> 33:31.240] So that he we can worry about him later and then all of a sudden it's later and they get
[33:31.240 --> 33:35.080] to the end and then Allah like a gay blur.
[33:35.080 --> 33:38.960] They sit there at the end, final three and the jury's like, we love this guy.
[33:38.960 --> 33:44.800] Yeah, I guess instead of I mean, we know that Gabler had an obsession with metal and that
[33:44.800 --> 33:51.880] seems to be like Ben's music of choice is really this hard rock style of music to the point
[33:51.880 --> 33:56.560] that he even brought up that scene and how much he talks about not being a poser trying
[33:56.560 --> 34:02.120] to take that word back, I think from a certain solid survivor alumni, I think I'm seeing your
[34:02.120 --> 34:04.880] observation to a certain extent.
[34:04.880 --> 34:08.240] What is lacking for me is that bite.
[34:08.240 --> 34:12.600] I think you look back to Cody and I think what's so interesting about Cody as a survivor player
[34:12.600 --> 34:17.680] is again, he had that Aloha personality to him.
[34:17.680 --> 34:22.400] Like you said, but Aloha also means goodbye and I think Cody, you see with Justine from
[34:22.400 --> 34:25.160] the get go is able to be like, she's a sales person.
[34:25.160 --> 34:26.160] We got to get rid of him.
[34:26.160 --> 34:29.480] He was able to scheme a lot behind the scenes using that sort of mask.
[34:29.480 --> 34:32.360] I don't know if I got a sense from my interview with Ben that he'd be able to do that.
[34:32.360 --> 34:36.360] But also Mike that the thing with Cody was he was kind of like to use the music terms
[34:36.360 --> 34:42.960] like the frontman and then Jesse was the guy writing the music behind the scenes and so that
[34:42.960 --> 34:48.160] I think that that dynamic duo really allowed and people saw Cody as sort of like the visible
[34:48.160 --> 34:55.400] person who was like having more of the social relationships while Jesse is more quieter and
[34:55.400 --> 34:59.480] can be a little more shy and less outgoing.
[34:59.480 --> 35:06.600] So I think that people like put a lot of the like power of the couple onto Cody.
[35:06.600 --> 35:12.400] But I feel like that unless Ben pairs up with the right person, like I don't think that this
[35:12.400 --> 35:16.880] is going to be a wildly successful run for Ben either.
[35:16.880 --> 35:18.480] Maybe a one hit one there.
[35:18.480 --> 35:19.480] Yeah.
[35:19.480 --> 35:22.880] Listen, as long as you're on the charts, that's really all that matters.
[35:22.880 --> 35:23.880] Yeah.
[35:23.880 --> 35:27.040] I think that when it came to like his actual strategy, I mean he talked again about this
[35:27.040 --> 35:31.840] sort of like face-off mentality, again, how he wants to work with somebody and like stage
[35:31.840 --> 35:33.400] a fight at tribal council.
[35:33.400 --> 35:36.600] We saw that to a certain extent with like Carolyn and Jam Jam, though I think it's kind
[35:36.600 --> 35:40.680] of come out after the fact that like that wasn't really a staged fight.
[35:40.680 --> 35:41.680] There's not a lot.
[35:41.680 --> 35:43.040] I don't think it was fake for Carolyn.
[35:43.040 --> 35:44.040] Yeah, exactly.
[35:44.040 --> 35:49.920] Like I think you can only fake so much authenticity out there on the island.
[35:49.920 --> 35:50.920] But who knows?
[35:50.920 --> 35:55.000] This might be a guy who like really locks into something when he's out there.
[35:55.000 --> 35:58.360] I think what's also made really interesting about his personality amongst many things
[35:58.360 --> 36:05.760] is that, you know, he might again come across as this hardcore rocker guy, but he clearly
[36:05.760 --> 36:07.680] has a lot of sensitivity.
[36:07.680 --> 36:09.080] He has a lot of vulnerabilities too.
[36:09.080 --> 36:11.440] I mean, he expresses that as his piece of Kryptonite.
[36:11.440 --> 36:12.840] He also works with kids.
[36:12.840 --> 36:17.560] So I think he has certainly a soft spot in his heart and he's also like a bit of a nerd
[36:17.560 --> 36:18.560] as well.
[36:18.560 --> 36:21.120] Like he quotes the Lord of the Rings multiple times.
[36:21.120 --> 36:22.120] I'm surprised.
[36:22.120 --> 36:26.080] He actually did mention Samwise, I think before his top five as someone he wanted to bring
[36:26.080 --> 36:27.760] out to the island.
[36:27.760 --> 36:32.240] And so as long as he gets those potatoes boiling and people sort of see him as someone who's
[36:32.240 --> 36:37.320] easily accessible to talk with, that's going to help him a lot early on.
[36:37.320 --> 36:41.520] Maybe then it gets to a point where to your point they say, yeah, I don't know if Ben
[36:41.520 --> 36:46.480] is necessarily a big person or headhunting in the early merge.
[36:46.480 --> 36:51.440] But again, I could also see it a point in the late merge either he gets taken along
[36:51.440 --> 36:56.120] as a goat or people say Ben's way too likable.
[36:56.120 --> 36:59.800] He's someone who has maybe been in on a couple of moves, maybe not at the head of them, but
[36:59.800 --> 37:05.840] he's slowly but surely building up a set list of music to sing at that final tribal council
[37:05.840 --> 37:08.280] and we're going to cut him off before he hits that stage.
[37:08.280 --> 37:13.080] I think some of the big factors for him and really this is hard to do this because this
[37:13.080 --> 37:16.480] is the first person of this tribe that we're looking at.
[37:16.480 --> 37:20.680] So we don't really get a sense of like what the vibe of the tribe is going to be.
[37:20.680 --> 37:26.080] And so if he's kind of like an unpredictable, unstable element within the tribe, say he's
[37:26.080 --> 37:30.760] off looking for idols all the time, like I could see a scenario where the tribe just does
[37:30.760 --> 37:36.560] not like that type of unpredictability from Ben and I could see him being a pre merge
[37:36.560 --> 37:37.560] boot in that scenario.
[37:37.560 --> 37:44.600] Yeah, if it turns out that Siga is a bit more of like a copacetic tribe, I will say overall
[37:44.600 --> 37:49.000] as we'll get into the other five like there are some, some personalities that definitely
[37:49.000 --> 37:50.000] stick out.
[37:50.000 --> 37:51.000] Ben being one of them.
[37:51.000 --> 37:54.880] But I do think compared to Yannu and especially compared to the third tribe, we're going to
[37:54.880 --> 37:56.120] talk about Nami.
[37:56.120 --> 38:00.040] I would say this is definitely the most mellow tribe out of the three.
[38:00.040 --> 38:05.920] And so I do agree if Ben does kind of hit the ground shredding and decides to like really
[38:05.920 --> 38:11.000] go all out much like his fellow guitar player seafood that we saw last season, we saw that
[38:11.000 --> 38:16.840] seafood nearly got himself voted out even over, you know, someone who got swap screwed
[38:16.840 --> 38:19.920] because he was making such a negative impression early on again.
[38:19.920 --> 38:25.360] I think the way that Ben at least comes across to me that does seem a bit out of character,
[38:25.360 --> 38:30.640] but if he does indeed decide to like be imbued with the energy of a mosh pit and just start
[38:30.640 --> 38:35.200] mad cat dashing around the island, that could put him in hot water early on.
[38:35.200 --> 38:37.720] Okay, Mike, anything else you want to say about Ben?
[38:37.720 --> 38:45.840] I took the deepest of dives Miami style into Ben Katzmann's library and it is glorious,
[38:45.840 --> 38:46.840] my friend.
[38:46.840 --> 38:47.840] Yes.
[38:47.840 --> 38:55.520] I mean, you all need to check out the music video for it's the most recent one on his channel
[38:55.520 --> 39:02.880] on YouTube for ego driver, Ben's outfit of choice, I think for his band is like Viking
[39:02.880 --> 39:08.500] horns and some sort of medieval like garb to him.
[39:08.500 --> 39:15.160] This video contains some VFX that like make even the worst of Marvel look like the Lord
[39:15.160 --> 39:19.960] of the Rings, the beloved series that Ben adores so much.
[39:19.960 --> 39:26.760] I mean, he is putting in the work right now, but it is truly indescribable.
[39:26.760 --> 39:32.520] Some of his other work, some of his other songs in his catalog, don't be a poser parentheses
[39:32.520 --> 39:33.520] to yourself.
[39:33.520 --> 39:36.440] Yeah, don't be a poser to yourself.
[39:36.440 --> 39:37.440] Yeah.
[39:37.440 --> 39:38.440] Yeah.
[39:38.440 --> 39:39.440] Mom's a Capricorn.
[39:39.440 --> 39:42.360] Ben does a lot of content with his mom as well, him and his mom did a couple of videos because
[39:42.360 --> 39:46.000] he talked about, right, that he tried to be a touring musician, didn't necessarily want
[39:46.000 --> 39:49.680] to go with that path living with his parents, him and his mom do a couple of videos called
[39:49.680 --> 39:50.680] shred kitchen.
[39:50.680 --> 39:51.680] Yeah.
[39:51.680 --> 39:54.680] Where they do like hardcore metal recipes.
[39:54.680 --> 39:58.920] Oh, see, I thought this was going to be about like how to like prepare mozzarella.
[39:58.920 --> 40:02.680] Well, they do make a salad where they use a shredder primarily.
[40:02.680 --> 40:04.320] So yes, they are all in.
[40:04.320 --> 40:09.560] And that's the other thing as well is that I very much got the sense from Ben that like not
[40:09.560 --> 40:13.760] to use this phrase too lightly because the man's making a career this, but like, I feel
[40:13.760 --> 40:18.080] like he's kind of in on the joke, you know, this isn't really like a coach situation.
[40:18.080 --> 40:24.560] Like this guy does feel very fun, loving and a little out there, but I think he understands
[40:24.560 --> 40:25.560] that.
[40:25.560 --> 40:27.280] And I do think that's going to help him connect to people too.
[40:27.280 --> 40:28.280] Yeah.
[40:28.280 --> 40:33.480] And then no matter what happens, certainly one of the breakout stars of the evolution strategy
[40:33.480 --> 40:34.480] volume five.
[40:34.480 --> 40:38.360] Oh, you are, don't throw that out there, Rob.
[40:39.360 --> 40:40.360] All right.
[40:40.360 --> 40:42.840] No promise something that your ass can't catch.
[40:42.840 --> 40:44.600] All right.
[40:44.600 --> 40:48.040] So let's leave it there with Ben.
[40:48.040 --> 40:50.560] We've got one more person to preview here today.
[40:50.560 --> 40:56.280] We're going to talk about Charlie and he is a law student and a distance runner.
[40:56.280 --> 41:03.400] And we're going to listen in to Mike's interview with Charlie when we come back right after this.
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[41:32.960 --> 41:35.560] Okay, Mike.
[41:35.560 --> 41:39.440] Let's talk about our second member of the Sega tribe.
[41:39.440 --> 41:41.080] Let's talk about Charlie.
[41:41.080 --> 41:43.280] Yes, Charlie Davis.
[41:43.280 --> 41:45.480] Charlie is 25 years old.
[41:45.480 --> 41:49.600] We're the younger members of the cast from Boston, Massachusetts.
[41:49.600 --> 41:52.560] And he is currently in law school.
[41:52.560 --> 41:53.560] Okay.
[41:53.560 --> 41:54.560] All right.
[41:54.560 --> 41:58.440] Mike, what else can you set up for us about Charlie Davis?
[41:58.440 --> 42:03.520] So the CBS social media has done a very fun job here in the preseason posting snippets
[42:03.520 --> 42:09.360] of audition videos from these castaways in anticipation for the premiere coming on February
[42:09.360 --> 42:11.000] 28th.
[42:11.000 --> 42:16.560] It's really, you know, uh, damning with faint praise for all the other applicants.
[42:16.560 --> 42:19.200] I do think Charlie's is one of my favorites.
[42:19.200 --> 42:24.480] It is certainly the most like actively energetically all over the place.
[42:24.480 --> 42:28.080] We see Charlie slam down a book and say objection.
[42:28.080 --> 42:29.280] It takes him on a boat.
[42:29.280 --> 42:33.480] It takes him while he's running talking about how good he'll be at the game.
[42:33.480 --> 42:37.160] He does say if you looked up the definition of privilege, you're getting something pretty
[42:37.160 --> 42:38.160] close to me.
[42:38.160 --> 42:42.680] And again, that's another thing about Charlie is I think you look on the surface and you probably
[42:42.680 --> 42:47.800] preconceived a lot about him and granted his background would suggest those preconceptions.
[42:47.800 --> 42:52.160] But again, I do think he has a certain sense of humor about him that I do hope translates
[42:52.160 --> 42:53.440] to the game as well.
[42:53.440 --> 42:54.440] Mm hmm.
[42:54.440 --> 42:55.440] Yeah.
[42:55.440 --> 43:00.280] So I think he was understanding the assignment of how to get noticed by survivor casting.
[43:00.280 --> 43:01.280] Yes.
[43:01.280 --> 43:02.280] Exactly.
[43:02.280 --> 43:06.160] The exercise of this entire conceit is to basically teach people like, here's what you
[43:06.160 --> 43:07.520] need to do.
[43:07.520 --> 43:11.760] You're not all going to be the Mike Turner standing on a roof talking for 30 seconds uninterrupted
[43:11.760 --> 43:12.760] into an iPhone.
[43:12.760 --> 43:13.760] Do this.
[43:13.760 --> 43:16.360] Then I think Charlie is a very good blueprint for him.
[43:16.360 --> 43:17.360] Yeah.
[43:17.360 --> 43:23.760] I don't think he's going to get to the island and then be somebody who has like, um, just
[43:23.760 --> 43:26.240] is a monster to the other people.
[43:26.240 --> 43:27.240] Yeah.
[43:27.240 --> 43:29.480] I mean, listen, we could be surprised.
[43:29.480 --> 43:30.480] Who knows?
[43:30.480 --> 43:33.720] He's pretty good and expectations get defied in many ways.
[43:33.720 --> 43:36.200] But no, Charlie only wants to be a monster in the courtroom.
[43:36.200 --> 43:37.200] Okay.
[43:37.200 --> 43:38.840] And in the distance running.
[43:38.840 --> 43:39.840] Okay.
[43:39.840 --> 43:40.840] So let's go ahead.
[43:40.840 --> 43:45.040] Let's listen to Mike's interview with Charlie and then we'll come back and talk about your
[43:45.040 --> 43:47.040] thoughts on Charlie.
[43:47.040 --> 43:48.120] My name is Charlie.
[43:48.120 --> 43:51.040] I'm 25 and I'm a law student.
[43:51.040 --> 43:52.960] So did you recently enter law school?
[43:52.960 --> 43:54.040] What year are you in?
[43:54.040 --> 43:55.040] My second.
[43:55.040 --> 43:56.040] Well, just finished up my second year.
[43:56.040 --> 43:57.880] So I've got one year left.
[43:57.880 --> 43:59.680] So two years down, one year to go.
[43:59.680 --> 44:01.960] How are you feeling right now?
[44:01.960 --> 44:03.280] I'm feeling pretty good.
[44:03.280 --> 44:08.320] I mean, this is one way to spend your two L summer coming out to Fiji, play and survivor.
[44:08.320 --> 44:09.960] I actually was very lucky.
[44:09.960 --> 44:15.560] The, uh, the firm that I'm basically interning at this summer, uh, was very good about letting
[44:15.560 --> 44:20.160] me have this long sort of vague leave of absence.
[44:20.160 --> 44:26.120] So, uh, I'm excited, you know, and however long from now I can finally be like, well, this
[44:26.120 --> 44:27.120] is what I was doing.
[44:27.120 --> 44:28.120] Yeah.
[44:28.120 --> 44:29.880] And I'm like, I'm like, what are the out of offices?
[44:29.880 --> 44:31.400] Like, what are the excuses that you give?
[44:31.400 --> 44:32.680] What was yours?
[44:32.680 --> 44:39.080] So I said that I was on a leadership, uh, retreat, I mean, and I pretty much just left
[44:39.080 --> 44:40.080] it there.
[44:40.080 --> 44:42.000] Technically, it's like too far off.
[44:42.000 --> 44:45.960] You know, hypothetically, I mean, I don't know if I want to be like, you know, leader
[44:45.960 --> 44:49.320] in all caps, but you know, leadership qualities.
[44:49.320 --> 44:53.720] Do you have a goal right now for when you graduate, like what you want to study, what you want
[44:53.720 --> 44:54.880] to go into?
[44:54.880 --> 44:57.320] So I don't know for sure.
[44:57.320 --> 44:59.760] So I'm still figuring it out this summer.
[44:59.760 --> 45:03.620] When I get back to work, I'll get to try a lot of different things.
[45:03.620 --> 45:08.160] So I worked in immigration law before I went to law school.
[45:08.160 --> 45:12.040] And then this past semester I did my law school's immigration clinic.
[45:12.040 --> 45:15.680] So I do care a lot about that area, that area of law.
[45:15.680 --> 45:21.000] I don't know if necessarily it'll be like the sole focus of my career, but it's something
[45:21.000 --> 45:24.720] that I've definitely worked on a lot enough that that's pretty much going to be my cover
[45:24.720 --> 45:30.800] or that's going to be my in-game occupation is going to be an immigration paralegal.
[45:30.800 --> 45:31.800] Wow.
[45:31.800 --> 45:35.720] So what brings you out to this leadership conference quote unquote?
[45:35.720 --> 45:37.360] What brought you out into survivor?
[45:37.360 --> 45:41.440] Man, so I found survivor, should I be looking at you, by the way?
[45:41.440 --> 45:43.280] You can look at whatever's comfortable.
[45:43.280 --> 45:46.040] So I found survivor in the pandemic.
[45:46.040 --> 45:52.400] So my first season that I ever watched was Winners at War, which was a spoiler alert.
[45:52.480 --> 45:56.880] It was a terrible idea for someone who ended up absolutely loving survivor and mowing through
[45:56.880 --> 45:57.880] the rest of the season.
[45:57.880 --> 46:01.480] So I was like, oh, that's, you know, Sandra's first win, that's Sandra's second win.
[46:01.480 --> 46:05.160] That was one of the better ones because, you know, at least there's a 50-50.
[46:05.160 --> 46:08.520] Yeah, but what's interesting, I would imagine that you unintentionally did for your future
[46:08.520 --> 46:13.080] survivor career is like, you knew people were winning ahead of time and you got to sort of
[46:13.080 --> 46:15.280] map through the process as to how they got there.
[46:15.280 --> 46:16.280] Right.
[46:16.280 --> 46:19.840] Yeah, you can sort of dissect things a little bit more, be a little bit more analytical because
[46:19.840 --> 46:22.120] from day one, it's like a huge fan of the show.
[46:22.120 --> 46:24.800] I loved watching, but I was like, I want to play this thing.
[46:24.800 --> 46:30.040] I remember a couple of episodes in the Winners at War, I filmed some absolutely abysmal audition
[46:30.040 --> 46:36.080] video in my basement like at like 3 a.m. with my cat and I was, you know, sent it off.
[46:36.080 --> 46:40.120] And then like, you know, years later, I was like, wow, that was really, really bad.
[46:40.120 --> 46:43.480] But ended up here, kept auditioning and here I am.
[46:43.480 --> 46:49.400] So I'm just so excited, loved the show, loved the community, like, started going to watch
[46:49.480 --> 46:51.600] parties like when Survivor came back.
[46:51.600 --> 46:52.600] Yeah.
[46:52.600 --> 46:57.080] So I went to the first one during 43, Bryson won event and then another one in 44 and just
[46:57.080 --> 47:00.400] like, that like took my love of the show to a new level, right?
[47:00.400 --> 47:01.400] Yeah.
[47:01.400 --> 47:03.160] It's like, just the fans are amazing.
[47:03.160 --> 47:07.320] It's like, it's just such good energy and, you know, just people love and survivor.
[47:07.320 --> 47:08.320] And now you're a part of it.
[47:08.320 --> 47:10.800] Now there's going to be a Bryson won event and it's going to be people looking up at you
[47:10.800 --> 47:11.800] on the screen.
[47:11.800 --> 47:12.800] I know, I know.
[47:12.800 --> 47:16.640] Which is like literally what I've been doing like the past, you know, two seasons.
[47:16.640 --> 47:18.280] So it's like, it's so cool.
[47:18.280 --> 47:19.880] I feel like it's almost like giving back.
[47:19.880 --> 47:24.680] It's like, I've been, I've been absorbing all this entertainment over the years.
[47:24.680 --> 47:28.880] And then hopefully it's like, I, I give a little back to, to the people, you know, give
[47:28.880 --> 47:31.320] them something to cheer for, or against, whatever.
[47:31.320 --> 47:32.320] Now let's see.
[47:32.320 --> 47:33.320] It's not completely altruistic though.
[47:33.320 --> 47:34.800] You are here for the million at the end of the day too.
[47:34.800 --> 47:38.560] Oh, at the end of the day, it's like, people, people ask you, it's like, would you rather
[47:38.560 --> 47:42.460] the title of soul survivor or the million dollars and it's like, well, luckily you get
[47:42.460 --> 47:43.460] both of them.
[47:43.460 --> 47:47.840] So it's like, and then it's like, even if I was to say, you know, the title, it's like,
[47:47.840 --> 47:50.520] I have a lot of student loans that are really excited about the million.
[47:50.520 --> 47:51.520] So, yeah.
[47:51.520 --> 47:52.520] Yeah.
[47:52.520 --> 47:56.040] So given your history with survivor, give me one winner, one non winner, you identify
[47:56.040 --> 47:57.040] with the most.
[47:57.040 --> 47:58.040] Okay.
[47:58.040 --> 47:59.040] Okay.
[47:59.040 --> 48:00.040] Okay.
[48:00.040 --> 48:08.320] Winner that I identify with the most, I would say, Natalie Anderson, winner identified with
[48:08.320 --> 48:14.840] the most, just at least identify with, I'm also like, look up to, I feel like it's flattering
[48:14.880 --> 48:19.560] myself a little too much to say identify with her, but just her drive, great mind for the
[48:19.560 --> 48:26.400] game, competitive, like loyal to her allies, like I love season 29, that sort of her revenge
[48:26.400 --> 48:27.400] arc.
[48:27.400 --> 48:28.400] Yeah.
[48:28.400 --> 48:29.400] I really love that.
[48:29.400 --> 48:31.080] So that's, that's one winner.
[48:31.080 --> 48:37.480] And then non winner, I'm going to say Christian, Hibiki, just so likable, like if I can muster
[48:37.480 --> 48:41.240] an ounce of that likability, like I feel like I'll be okay.
[48:41.240 --> 48:45.040] And just fun to watch, great at sort of distilling the game.
[48:45.040 --> 48:46.760] I think that's a really underrated skill.
[48:46.760 --> 48:47.760] Yeah.
[48:47.760 --> 48:49.600] If I could do that, like that would be great too.
[48:49.600 --> 48:51.800] Again, these are like huge shoes to fill.
[48:51.800 --> 48:57.120] So, but, or potentially fill, but yeah, those are, those are my favorites.
[48:57.120 --> 49:00.800] What's one life experience you feel has most prepared you for whatever you're about to
[49:00.800 --> 49:01.960] get into?
[49:01.960 --> 49:06.360] So I think being a distance runner, so I've been a lifelong distance runner and I've thought
[49:06.360 --> 49:07.360] about this.
[49:07.360 --> 49:08.360] And here's why.
[49:09.360 --> 49:12.480] Runners are all a little weird, a little crazy.
[49:12.480 --> 49:14.600] It's like, what do you like to do for fun?
[49:14.600 --> 49:18.600] I go on runs like, and it's kind of the same as survivor.
[49:18.600 --> 49:19.600] It's like, I love survivor.
[49:19.600 --> 49:21.080] I'm going to come play survivor.
[49:21.080 --> 49:22.080] Oh, what does that mean?
[49:22.080 --> 49:25.280] Oh, I'm going to starve on an island and you know, it doesn't work well on paper.
[49:25.280 --> 49:26.280] Yeah.
[49:26.280 --> 49:29.600] The, you know, laid bare and you got to be a little, a little kooky, a little crazy to
[49:29.600 --> 49:31.000] want to try something like that.
[49:31.000 --> 49:37.360] So, and then just sort of being comfortable with the, with discomfort, like that's really what
[49:37.360 --> 49:41.480] running is is to succeed in running, you have to, you know, get in the zone where you're
[49:41.480 --> 49:44.240] just in so much pain and then just keep going.
[49:44.240 --> 49:46.760] So, yeah, that's what I think.
[49:46.760 --> 49:50.640] Now, obviously like the direct comparison and the reason why you're kind of obfuscating
[49:50.640 --> 49:59.160] your job is like the idea of pitching or being able to sell yourself or a client to a jury.
[49:59.160 --> 50:02.480] Do you feel like though, as someone who's within the field of law, like, is that applicable
[50:02.480 --> 50:03.920] to something like survivor?
[50:03.920 --> 50:10.880] So it's a good question and, and I agree with you, but ultimately the reason, the main
[50:10.880 --> 50:14.920] reason why I'm going to not really mention that I'm a law student is I just don't think
[50:14.920 --> 50:15.920] it can help me.
[50:15.920 --> 50:16.920] Yeah.
[50:16.920 --> 50:21.040] I don't see is anything helping me and going just the small step down to paralegal, you
[50:21.040 --> 50:24.840] know, it's, it's not like I'm stretching my world so far.
[50:24.840 --> 50:29.640] It's not, you know, I'm a, I'm not a personal trainer or something like that.
[50:29.640 --> 50:35.880] But definitely see what you're saying too, where I do think that, you know, sort of having
[50:35.880 --> 50:41.400] that type of mind where you're thinking about almost building a story is really what I think
[50:41.400 --> 50:45.840] about like, well, that's what a good lawyer does is, is tell a story.
[50:45.840 --> 50:51.040] And I think we've seen in the past couple of seasons, the winners tell really good stories.
[50:51.040 --> 50:52.040] Absolutely.
[50:52.040 --> 50:53.640] And final tribals, it's like that's how they win the game.
[50:53.640 --> 50:58.880] It's like, even if you're looking in their game from, I hate to use the word objective because
[50:58.880 --> 50:59.880] what is objective?
[50:59.880 --> 51:00.880] It's an edited show.
[51:00.880 --> 51:05.880] Yeah, you know, but, but it's even just like, there's no set criteria that you can check
[51:05.880 --> 51:06.880] off to win.
[51:06.880 --> 51:07.880] Yeah.
[51:07.880 --> 51:11.800] There's no objective way to win survivors, but it's like, they can get to the end and
[51:11.800 --> 51:18.240] come up with something to, to explain and have it make sense why they should win.
[51:18.240 --> 51:21.600] And I think that's a really underrated skill because if you can just get to the end and
[51:21.600 --> 51:26.880] then sit there on the last day before final tribals and be like, here's a story I can craft.
[51:26.880 --> 51:27.880] Yeah.
[51:27.880 --> 51:31.080] Thinking about it before, as I was playing the game, it doesn't really matter.
[51:31.080 --> 51:32.720] The jury buys it.
[51:32.720 --> 51:37.280] Do you have a strategy for tribal council in particular because, you know, as of late,
[51:37.280 --> 51:41.360] people have been very good about like trying to obscure things and you come from a background
[51:41.360 --> 51:44.880] where it is all about like, anything you can't say, and we'll say we'll use against you
[51:44.880 --> 51:45.880] in a court of law.
[51:45.880 --> 51:46.880] Yeah.
[51:46.880 --> 51:50.880] So do you have any tactics for like, to that point, surviving the, the burning, the grilling
[51:50.880 --> 51:51.880] of Jeff Probst?
[51:51.880 --> 51:53.760] I mean, it's going to be tough, right?
[51:53.760 --> 51:56.480] I mean, and part of it is I have no idea what to expect.
[51:56.480 --> 52:04.480] So I definitely want to get my feel for tribal and A, make sure it doesn't bring about the
[52:04.480 --> 52:05.680] end of my game.
[52:05.680 --> 52:11.600] But I think, and I hope, I have no idea, but I hope I can use tribal as sort of a weapon
[52:11.600 --> 52:12.600] as well.
[52:12.600 --> 52:18.640] I think, I think in the right moments, at the right times, you can sort of get people
[52:18.640 --> 52:23.760] a little flustered and, you know, maybe in a way that they wouldn't have expected, you
[52:23.760 --> 52:27.760] know, turn something around, you know, question Jeff asks you, you know, pin it on someone
[52:27.760 --> 52:35.280] else, you know, take someone's random analogy or, you know, you know, you know, obfuscating
[52:35.280 --> 52:39.040] answer and, you know, say, oh, who are you talking about right now?
[52:39.040 --> 52:40.040] Yeah.
[52:40.040 --> 52:44.800] Like when you said someone's driving the bus, it's like, name them, name who you think
[52:44.800 --> 52:49.720] in charge, you know, just finding moments where if, if you're back against the wall, trying
[52:49.720 --> 52:51.880] to turn up the heat a little bit.
[52:51.880 --> 52:55.120] What do you think is your biggest superpower?
[52:55.120 --> 52:57.720] Biggest superpower?
[52:57.720 --> 53:03.160] Probably my ability to name Taylor Swift songs within the first few seconds of them playing.
[53:03.160 --> 53:04.160] Wow.
[53:04.160 --> 53:05.160] Yeah.
[53:05.160 --> 53:06.160] Yeah.
[53:06.160 --> 53:08.160] I mean, I don't know if you were going for something in-game, but it could be either or.
[53:08.160 --> 53:09.160] That's probably just overall.
[53:09.160 --> 53:11.800] A challenge could be named that too, and it could be a crossover with Fox, and you'd just
[53:11.800 --> 53:12.800] be...
[53:12.800 --> 53:13.800] That would be incredible.
[53:13.800 --> 53:17.160] I mean, as long as it's Taylor Swift, I mean, I've used up a lot of memory space
[53:17.160 --> 53:18.160] on her song.
[53:18.160 --> 53:19.160] So anything else?
[53:19.160 --> 53:20.160] I don't know.
[53:20.160 --> 53:24.000] And I may not remember the names of your kids, but if you hum three notes, I can tell you
[53:24.000 --> 53:25.000] if it's shaken off.
[53:25.000 --> 53:26.000] Yeah, exactly.
[53:26.000 --> 53:27.000] Exactly.
[53:27.000 --> 53:29.680] Well, on the other hand, what's your, what's your kryptonite, other musically-based or
[53:29.680 --> 53:30.680] otherwise?
[53:30.680 --> 53:31.680] Oh, man.
[53:31.680 --> 53:32.680] My kryptonite.
[53:32.680 --> 53:42.080] I think I'm thinking musically, gosh, I don't know, probably like, I don't know, anything old.
[53:42.080 --> 53:48.840] But then in-game, I feel like my kryptonite will be...
[53:48.840 --> 53:53.320] If I get too enchanted by, you know, one alliance partner.
[53:53.320 --> 53:54.320] Huh.
[53:54.320 --> 53:59.640] So, I think what I want to do is, you know, find someone I can really trust, but there's
[53:59.640 --> 54:04.440] a lot of savvy people out there, and I might trust them wholeheartedly and be telling them
[54:04.440 --> 54:05.880] all sorts of things.
[54:05.880 --> 54:09.520] I like to think that I would know that they trust me and tell me all sorts of things in
[54:09.520 --> 54:12.080] return, but I could get fooled.
[54:12.080 --> 54:15.960] I think that's the thing people don't realize is like, there's going to be a fooler and
[54:15.960 --> 54:17.200] a foolie every time.
[54:17.200 --> 54:18.200] And it could be me.
[54:18.200 --> 54:19.200] It absolutely could be me.
[54:19.200 --> 54:21.040] So that's what I'm worried about.
[54:21.040 --> 54:24.040] Are you looking for any specific qualities in a number one?
[54:24.040 --> 54:29.960] So yeah, I think I want someone who's, you know, I consider like a good social strategic
[54:29.960 --> 54:30.960] player.
[54:30.960 --> 54:34.200] You know, someone who I can bounce ideas off of, ideally I have, you know, a really solid
[54:34.200 --> 54:38.920] alliance that I take and go with far into the game.
[54:38.920 --> 54:44.760] But the flip side is, all those players are going to be big threats at the same time.
[54:44.760 --> 54:48.120] And so I'm sort of thinking about it in that way.
[54:48.120 --> 54:51.720] But definitely early in the game, you know, I want someone who's going to be who I can
[54:51.720 --> 54:58.080] trust to, you know, handle all the craziness of the game and work with me and sort of help
[54:58.080 --> 55:02.560] spitball ideas and, you know, just have fun with it as well.
[55:02.560 --> 55:03.560] Yeah.
[55:03.560 --> 55:06.560] I mean, we've seen that in the case of Cody and Jesse, most recently a bit with like Carolyn
[55:06.560 --> 55:07.560] and Jam Jam.
[55:07.560 --> 55:10.920] Are you, are you not afraid to try to make that move at the end of the game?
[55:10.920 --> 55:13.080] How emotionally difficult do you think it's going to be?
[55:14.080 --> 55:15.080] Yeah.
[55:15.080 --> 55:20.320] I think it's so hard to say because I feel like as fans, you know, we're watching at
[55:20.320 --> 55:25.840] home, it's so clear, vote them out then or do, you know, do this at that moment.
[55:25.840 --> 55:29.800] And that doesn't take into account like this crazy bond you build in such a short amount
[55:29.800 --> 55:30.800] of time.
[55:30.800 --> 55:37.880] So I'm trying not to tell myself that I would easily cut the person that I had been working
[55:37.880 --> 55:38.840] with the whole game.
[55:38.840 --> 55:42.720] I think I could do it, but I think it would be really hard.
[55:42.720 --> 55:44.720] I really think it's going to be hard.
[55:44.720 --> 55:49.520] So what do you think people are going to perceive you as, you know, faulty occupation or otherwise?
[55:49.520 --> 55:52.820] Oh, man.
[55:52.820 --> 55:59.800] I think people will probably get a read on me that I'm like, at least like somewhat like
[55:59.800 --> 56:03.040] book smart sounding at least.
[56:03.040 --> 56:07.000] I mean, I'm not, I don't like totally try to be, you know, that way.
[56:07.000 --> 56:09.680] I don't think I usually sound that way.
[56:09.680 --> 56:11.920] But also I'm usually around like a lot of law students.
[56:11.920 --> 56:15.080] So it's tough to say what people are going to think of me.
[56:15.080 --> 56:18.320] They might hear me talking to me like, wow, this kid's a law student, you know.
[56:18.320 --> 56:21.080] It's like, okay, there goes my lie.
[56:21.080 --> 56:27.200] So I'm just cognizant of people, you know, being, because I don't think like necessarily
[56:27.200 --> 56:32.560] being book smart is like the exact type of survivor smart that is the most threatening,
[56:32.560 --> 56:34.680] but people will use it no matter what.
[56:34.680 --> 56:39.060] So I think that, yeah, that's a big one for sure.
[56:39.060 --> 56:43.860] It's maybe also just like kind of like the young hot shot, like, you know, people, I
[56:43.860 --> 56:46.820] hope not, but people might think I'm like arrogant or cocky.
[56:46.820 --> 56:47.980] I am competitive.
[56:47.980 --> 56:53.940] So I hope like it doesn't come off in a, in a sort of cocky way.
[56:53.940 --> 56:57.980] But yeah, those are, those are probably the, the couple of things that I would think people
[56:57.980 --> 56:58.980] would say.
[56:58.980 --> 57:00.380] Now let's switch some perceptions here.
[57:00.380 --> 57:03.700] Obviously you've been around for a few days, you're making eyes at people.
[57:03.700 --> 57:07.680] Is there anyone you're picking up like particularly good vibes from even in these early days
[57:07.680 --> 57:08.680] where you can't talk?
[57:08.680 --> 57:09.680] Yeah.
[57:09.680 --> 57:15.380] I mean, so many, I mean, it's, it's so many people are just giving off really fun and
[57:15.380 --> 57:22.680] magnetic energy is what I would say is like even though people can't talk, it's like,
[57:22.680 --> 57:26.200] you can feel the charisma, especially, you know, from certain people, it's like, they
[57:26.200 --> 57:27.360] just ooze it.
[57:27.360 --> 57:29.840] It's like, give me some examples who, who's, who's sticking out here.
[57:29.840 --> 57:30.840] It's hard.
[57:30.840 --> 57:33.280] You know, obviously I don't, I don't know names.
[57:33.280 --> 57:39.720] So there's this one kind of taller, he looks almost Norwegian to me is like Scandinavian,
[57:39.720 --> 57:44.880] like a, kind of like a Viking and he's just got like a, a big presence like when he walks
[57:44.880 --> 57:45.880] in the room.
[57:45.880 --> 57:46.880] Big smile.
[57:46.880 --> 57:52.960] Pretty like athletic and posing guy like arms twice the size of mine.
[57:52.960 --> 58:00.280] So he's one, there's this one woman, she's like, she's a black woman with, with braids
[58:00.280 --> 58:09.160] and she has some tattoos on her legs and she's just so, so such good energy and good
[58:09.160 --> 58:11.680] vibes.
[58:11.680 --> 58:14.720] And just, I don't know, just like a beautiful soul.
[58:14.720 --> 58:18.200] But then it's like the same time as like, I can see, you know, I see her doing like little
[58:18.200 --> 58:19.200] puzzle books.
[58:19.200 --> 58:24.240] Like I know she's very smart and she's probably gotten incredible mine for the game.
[58:24.240 --> 58:26.400] It's like a lot of dangerous players out here.
[58:26.400 --> 58:30.800] So then on the other hand, is there anyone you're picking up not so good vibes from either
[58:30.800 --> 58:34.480] from a danger perspective already like, I don't know if we'd see eye on the beach type
[58:34.480 --> 58:35.480] of thing.
[58:35.480 --> 58:36.480] Gosh, I don't know.
[58:36.480 --> 58:37.480] It's hard to say.
[58:37.480 --> 58:43.760] I'm really trying to tell myself, don't, don't let one of your impressions early on get in
[58:43.760 --> 58:45.400] the way of you making an alliance.
[58:45.400 --> 58:46.400] Makes sense.
[58:46.400 --> 58:51.320] I'm trying not to let those run too far because it's like, oh, you know, someone didn't pass
[58:51.320 --> 58:52.640] me a fork.
[58:52.640 --> 58:56.320] You know, when we were in the dinner line, it's like, I'm not going to like, you're first
[58:56.320 --> 58:58.240] out, you know.
[58:58.240 --> 59:01.200] So but you know, you know, you know, we'll see.
[59:01.200 --> 59:04.680] We'll see when the game starts more when who I click with and who I don't.
[59:04.680 --> 59:06.680] What's been your level of preparation for this?
[59:06.680 --> 59:08.000] What exactly has been the process for you?
[59:08.000 --> 59:12.080] Because you've also been pursuing an education on top of a professional survivor.
[59:12.080 --> 59:13.080] Yeah.
[59:13.080 --> 59:14.080] Yeah.
[59:14.080 --> 59:16.640] I mean, this past year has been quite the roller coaster.
[59:16.640 --> 59:23.560] So I think I started the casting process in October was like my first, first contact if
[59:23.560 --> 59:24.760] you're a Star Trek fan.
[59:24.920 --> 59:25.760] Oh, yeah.
[59:25.760 --> 59:27.400] I was like, I have a habit of Star Trek.
[59:27.400 --> 59:28.400] Oh, amazing.
[59:28.400 --> 59:29.400] Yeah.
[59:29.400 --> 59:30.400] Yeah.
[59:30.400 --> 59:31.400] Yeah.
[59:31.400 --> 59:33.400] That was your when you met Zephyrm Cochran and you live long and prosper.
[59:33.400 --> 59:34.400] Yeah.
[59:34.400 --> 59:35.400] Exactly.
[59:35.400 --> 59:39.280] So that was, that was when it all started and, you know, then it's just sort of been trying
[59:39.280 --> 59:40.760] to get through that, get through that.
[59:40.760 --> 59:42.680] And then you finally get the call that you're on.
[59:42.680 --> 59:44.840] It's like, wow, like this is very real.
[59:44.840 --> 59:45.840] Yeah.
[59:45.840 --> 59:48.400] It's not just this sort of weird fantasy I've had.
[59:48.400 --> 59:54.360] I'm going to actually be on Fiji surviving in a jungle playing this insane game.
[59:54.360 --> 59:59.320] And so yeah, I mean, I, a lot of survivor podcasts, I think I was probably on like 10
[59:59.320 --> 01:00:03.760] hours a week, which as you point out was quite a bit in addition to school work.
[01:00:03] Yeah.
[01:00:04] So yeah, a lot of podcasts are taking notes on things, like little strategy ideas that
[01:00:09] sort of come into my brain.
[01:00:10] I have a little notes app in my phone.
[01:00:14] After watching Carson, I ordered a bunch of puzzles off Etsy.
[01:00:17] I don't have any brains to do like 3D printing.
[01:00:20] I don't even know where to start.
[01:00:22] But I was like, okay, I'll get like, I don't know, maybe like 6 or 8 puzzles that, okay,
[01:00:26] if one of those comes up, I can do it.
[01:00:29] That's about my max there.
[01:00:31] And then just like staying fit, I run a lot.
[01:00:34] Right.
[01:00:35] But I didn't want to do anything too drastic because I didn't want my body to have crazy
[01:00:39] whiplash, you know, I didn't want to, you know, put on, again, not like, I don't want to put
[01:00:44] on like 30 pounds like Carson, you know, I put on a couple, a little bit of weight that
[01:00:48] will get burned off in a second.
[01:00:50] But just other than that, just sleeping, trying to take it all in, get my zen on, I did get
[01:00:57] a little, a little balance block to work on my balance.
[01:01:01] Yeah.
[01:01:02] Yeah.
[01:01:03] So a little bit of that.
[01:01:04] We'll see if it pays off.
[01:01:05] Well, let's test this balance for a second.
[01:01:06] Let's say for a few days, you're on the beach, boat pulls up, you know what's happening,
[01:01:11] guy steps off says, what have you much going to journey?
[01:01:14] Are you stepping up?
[01:01:15] Are you trying to get someone else to go?
[01:01:17] That's your tactic here.
[01:01:18] Oh, man.
[01:01:19] That's really hard.
[01:01:20] Honestly, part of me is like the cop out.
[01:01:21] It's like, oh, we'll just do random.
[01:01:22] And if I go, I go and I'm going to make the most of it.
[01:01:25] I do think you have to do one of either two things in the new era.
[01:01:29] You either have to have an advantage or know exactly where the advantage is and be close
[01:01:34] to the person who has it.
[01:01:36] Yeah.
[01:01:37] So I want to be in one of those positions.
[01:01:39] So it's either me going on the journey or an ally.
[01:01:42] But then the other thing is, 44 kind of opened the door where it's like, they did a journey
[01:01:46] where it was just food.
[01:01:47] And I was like, thank God, because now hopefully I can come back and be like, oh, yeah, we just
[01:01:52] had, you know, some BLT wraps and chatted for a bit.
[01:01:56] And then hopefully there's no Carolyn that wants to smell my breath and hopefully I'd
[01:02:00] be okay.
[01:02:01] But yeah, so I mean, we'll see.
[01:02:05] I would go on a journey.
[01:02:06] I don't know if I'm going to do a Lauren and rig the rock draw.
[01:02:10] But you know, I'd go for it.
[01:02:13] I wouldn't be, you know, upset having an advantage in my pocket.
[01:02:16] I mean, to your credit, how hungry are you going to be for hunting for these?
[01:02:21] Is this something you're going to actively be searching for?
[01:02:23] Are you going to more so be in that second camp of like, I want to know more about people
[01:02:27] who have them and actually have them myself?
[01:02:30] I feel like I've got one foot in both camps and then you got to kind of see what the tenor
[01:02:36] on the beach is.
[01:02:37] Right.
[01:02:38] I don't think I'm going to be someone who's day one looking for an idol.
[01:02:40] I think still even even now that is a pretty bad idea.
[01:02:47] But I think as long as you are in one of those positions, either you have something and you
[01:02:52] keep your freaking mouth shut about it or you have an ally who's told you about what
[01:02:56] they have either one, like I'm envisioning if I like was walking through the jungle and
[01:03:01] I see a beware advantage, right?
[01:03:02] I'd be weighing two options.
[01:03:03] I'm either going to take it myself and figure out how the hell to get it without losing
[01:03:08] my vote or I'm going to take someone, ally or not and I'm going to try to get them to
[01:03:13] find it and then who knows, maybe I want them to not have a vote, maybe I won't give them
[01:03:18] a bead or tell someone else not to give them a bead, something like that.
[01:03:24] So that's sort of my thoughts when I find an advantage.
[01:03:28] What is one decision in survivor history that had you standing up saying, how could you
[01:03:35] do this?
[01:03:36] Why did you not see this other option?
[01:03:38] Okay, this is tough.
[01:03:40] This is tough.
[01:03:43] I mean, sorry to Eric Reichenbach.
[01:03:45] It's like, that's of course that's probably where everyone's mind goes, it's like giving
[01:03:49] up immunity.
[01:03:50] But actually, I love Eric.
[01:03:51] Eric was a cross-country runner himself, he has a special place in...
[01:03:55] You wore those shorts on the island?
[01:03:56] I know, you wore the freaking split shorts.
[01:03:58] I loved it.
[01:03:59] So I actually really like Eric.
[01:04:00] I actually, I think he has a great social game.
[01:04:02] I think he's just...
[01:04:04] I actually put that, I think I wrote that somewhere in some of my materials.
[01:04:07] But another one though, let's see.
[01:04:14] I'll try to think of one from the new era.
[01:04:16] Oh, I know.
[01:04:17] I think, I don't know if this is so much of a jumped out of my seat, but sort of compiled
[01:04:25] together of the course of the season.
[01:04:26] I wish Xander did something with his idol, and I'm sure Xander probably thinks that
[01:04:30] too.
[01:04:32] So you know, way into him.
[01:04:33] Also a cross-country runner.
[01:04:34] I didn't mean to pick all across...
[01:04:35] You're saying yourself in a lot of people.
[01:04:38] Yeah.
[01:04:39] But yeah, I mean, I think probably Xander thinks that in hindsight too, is like he, if he could
[01:04:45] play it again, he would get something going with that idol or otherwise.
[01:04:51] So yeah, that's something that comes to mind.
[01:04:53] What is your hottest survivor take, in your opinion?
[01:04:56] My hottest survivor take.
[01:04:57] And maybe I'm jaded because I sort of became a fan.
[01:05:02] My first couple live seasons were basically the new era, but I really have no qualms
[01:05:09] with the advantages or twists, like throw in my way.
[01:05:14] I'll see what I can do with them.
[01:05:15] I just love thinking about like, oh, what would I have done in that situation?
[01:05:18] And you know, now people will be telling me that I'm an idiot with my idol or my
[01:05:22] immediate interest.
[01:05:23] Exactly.
[01:05:24] Yeah.
[01:05:25] And you know what, Xander and Eric, both of you, I feel like both of you pile it on,
[01:05:29] please.
[01:05:30] I mean, I deserve it at this point.
[01:05:33] So that's probably my hottest survivor take.
[01:05:35] I feel like that's of the moment as well.
[01:05:38] That's in the discourse.
[01:05:39] All right.
[01:05:40] To finish things off, give me a celebrity or a fictional character that you would want
[01:05:44] to bring out for a loved one's visit.
[01:05:45] This is the easiest question I'll ever be asked.
[01:05:47] It's Taylor Swift.
[01:05:49] It's Taylor Swift.
[01:05:50] One out of 10, 100 out of 100 times, 13 out of 13 times, maybe more apt.
[01:05:57] My gosh, I would die.
[01:05:59] I would simply die.
[01:06:00] I mean, that would be the downside is like, that would happen and I would have to exit
[01:06:03] the game.
[01:06:04] I'd probably have a heart attack.
[01:06:05] Yeah.
[01:06:06] Yeah.
[01:06:07] I mean, what an episode.
[01:06:08] Right.
[01:06:09] Taylor Swift shows up to survivor.
[01:06:10] Yeah.
[01:06:11] I have a heart attack on the spot.
[01:06:12] Dr. Will is explaining, you know, well, what happened here is Charlie's seen this celebrity
[01:06:18] that he's very obsessed with and he's died on the spot.
[01:06:21] And so that's where we are now.
[01:06:23] Yeah.
[01:06:24] I mean, the good news is a million dollars can buy a lot of Aries tickets.
[01:06:25] So.
[01:06:26] Yeah.
[01:06:27] I mean, maybe like two or three.
[01:06:28] Yeah.
[01:06:29] Seriously.
[01:06:30] Yeah.
[01:06:31] How are you feeling right now?
[01:06:32] You know, we're still in the mixing phase before things actually get poured out, but like
[01:06:37] what's the cocktail of emotions at the moment?
[01:06:39] Oh, man.
[01:06:40] It's probably like the grossest college jungle juice that's ever existed.
[01:06:44] It's like somebody poured in vodka, tequila, you know, Red Bull, Jaegermeister, every single
[01:06:51] liquor they could find.
[01:06:52] It's like, it's all swirling in my stomach and either I'm going to, you know, make it
[01:06:57] through the night or I'm just going to vomit and who knows which one people want to see.
[01:07:01] But everything excited, scared, you know, just so grateful, just so, so amazing.
[01:07:11] Just really, really happy to be here.
[01:07:13] Yeah.
[01:07:14] I'm excited to be here as well.
[01:07:15] This wasn't, this was a light.
[01:07:16] This was an absolute delight.
[01:07:17] And I'm so.
[01:07:18] I'm glad.
[01:07:19] So nice to meet you.
[01:07:20] So just to meet you, I'm so excited to see, you know, what's to come.
[01:07:21] I know you still have some time left in the hopper, but like once it actually happens,
[01:07:25] I'm excited for you to, for the race to start in a manner of speaking.
[01:07:28] Exactly.
[01:07:29] Off to the races.
[01:07:30] All right, everybody.
[01:07:31] There you have it.
[01:07:32] Charlie.
[01:07:33] Nice job, Mike.
[01:07:34] Thank you.
[01:07:35] Yeah.
[01:07:36] So here's the thing.
[01:07:37] Charlie was talking about, well, the thing that would prepare me for this is that runners
[01:07:41] are a little weird, right?
[01:07:42] We're runners.
[01:07:43] We like to put our bodies on the line for no good reason at all.
[01:07:47] And so do survivor players.
[01:07:49] Here's the thing, though.
[01:07:50] I really do feel like after talking to all 18 of these people, this wonderfully eclectic
[01:07:55] group, I think Charlie far and away is the most normal out of all of them.
[01:08:00] You know, it's interesting that we have this with, with Ben and Charlie because I feel
[01:08:05] like that this is like the no normies allowed era of survivor.
[01:08:09] Like I feel like that, you know, from survivor one.
[01:08:13] To survivor 46 and not to say they were not colorful personalities in survivor one.
[01:08:19] But I think the idea was these are 16 every day, normal Americans and I almost feel like
[01:08:27] now that no, these are either, you know, very fascinating people or in a lot of ways I feel
[01:08:35] like truly like exceptional people of the people who like really exemplify exceptionalism
[01:08:44] that they are sort of like really great at what they do and people that are really like
[01:08:50] the standouts of the applicants.
[01:08:52] And it's almost like we very get, we get very few like, you know, normal down to earth
[01:08:57] people.
[01:08:58] Yeah.
[01:08:59] I mean, Charlie is definitely like the Sarah weight of this group, right, where it's like
[01:09:02] they don't do well in the new era.
[01:09:04] Like like Sarah and Helen and like the people who just seem like, okay, these are like
[01:09:09] the normal people.
[01:09:12] But again, you look at his video and that made me kind of change my tunabic because I'm like,
[01:09:16] okay, you have this performance aspect to you a bit and maybe that'll happen sort of
[01:09:22] like in a tribal council setting or look, I think he's very like Spencer coded in the
[01:09:26] way that he looks maybe he'll sort of have that fun, exasperated style to him if Siga
[01:09:31] does end up going south.
[01:09:34] But I think that is going to help him here because of the dynamics and the demographic
[01:09:38] that he provides as this like young athletic smart guy, I would imagine that's going to
[01:09:44] make him a good asset to Siga early on.
[01:09:47] So maybe when you look at again, the more normally types like your Helen's, like your Sarah's
[01:09:52] who maybe fell by the wayside a bit more due to extenuating circumstances, Charlie might be
[01:09:57] seen as a bit more invaluable to Siga.
[01:09:59] And so they're like, oh yeah, his personality is unassuming and he can do all this stuff.
[01:10:03] Great.
[01:10:04] We're going to keep him around.
[01:10:05] Yeah, he seems like somebody who is going to be like a reliable ally, kind of like the
[01:10:11] real life Mike Ross that went to Harvard actually was a lawyer.
[01:10:16] There you go.
[01:10:17] He did what Mike Ross couldn't do.
[01:10:18] Yeah.
[01:10:19] I think if there are any Swifties out there that very going to be excited to see Charlie.
[01:10:26] Do you think every like 20 seconds they're going to cut to Taylor Swift reacting to Charlie
[01:10:30] watching Survivor?
[01:10:31] Mm hmm.
[01:10:32] Yeah, that would be great.
[01:10:33] I unfortunately, it came at a time where it was pretty Travis and Taylor otherwise would
[01:10:37] have asked all his thoughts about it.
[01:10:38] Yeah.
[01:10:39] Okay.
[01:10:40] Well, I'm sure that, you know, God willing that, you know, that he, when he's allowed
[01:10:43] to talk about it, they'll still be together and we can get all of his thoughts.
[01:10:47] I do love that Charlie, I don't know if this is purposely or not, like couched a lot of his
[01:10:52] previous thoughts on survivor decisions through previous runners where he's like, yeah, you
[01:10:57] know, Eric Reichenbach's kind of underrated with his social play.
[01:11:00] Yeah.
[01:11:01] You know, Zander probably should have done something with the idol.
[01:11:04] I'm not sure if it's just, we talked about association and representation.
[01:11:07] I wonder if this guy just due to his background waits for like the skinny runner types to
[01:11:12] appear on the show.
[01:11:13] And he's like, that's my guy.
[01:11:14] That's who I'm passing the baton off to.
[01:11:16] Yeah.
[01:11:17] Is distance running good practice for survivor?
[01:11:21] I would imagine from like a cardio and caloric perspective, maybe, though, I don't know if
[01:11:26] you have to like put more calories into your body if you're a distance runner, right?
[01:11:31] Cause like you have to metabolize it and burn it off slower, though.
[01:11:34] Maybe I'm talking myself to thinking that like that's more appropriate.
[01:11:37] I mean, obviously like Charlie is not the bulkiest guy.
[01:11:40] He taught me about this.
[01:11:41] Like he didn't go full carcin.
[01:11:43] He didn't put on like 25 to 30 pounds, but I would imagine from just the perspective of
[01:11:48] your body's running on a fumes, but you have to keep going, which is something that Jeff
[01:11:52] Probs loves to dig into every time we get into those moments on survivor.
[01:11:57] Charlie has a fair amount of experience in that.
[01:12:00] Like, yes, he's in his second year of law school.
[01:12:02] He's a few years removed from the collegiate level, but like he has run track for a long,
[01:12:07] long time.
[01:12:08] Yeah.
[01:12:09] I feel like it's probably better mental preparation than it is actual physical preparation because
[01:12:13] on survivor, you will never run a distance of more than like, you know, 30 yards.
[01:12:18] I don't know if he gets to the final five and they do the same word like mental challenge
[01:12:23] they did back in 45 of like run back and forth and count all the things.
[01:12:27] He's got it unlocked to unlock the lock.
[01:12:29] All right.
[01:12:30] Mike, what else about Charlie?
[01:12:32] I mean, I think that Charlie, his perception is going to be something we should keep note
[01:12:38] on as well, right?
[01:12:40] That he knows he can come across as bookish and that he can come across as a bit cocky.
[01:12:46] I don't know if like him being able to clock that early on helps because he's able to curb
[01:12:52] that behavior or if it's just a matter of like, yeah, I know that's how I behave.
[01:12:56] I can't really stop it at that point.
[01:12:58] And from that perspective, who knows?
[01:13:00] Maybe if he ends up taking too much of a leadership position on this tribe, he could be somebody
[01:13:05] where people are saying like, I don't know if we want this kid telling us what to do.
[01:13:10] Yeah.
[01:13:11] I just don't know the makeup of the rest of the tribe, Mike, to be able to tell like, can
[01:13:14] you tell me just real quick some of the other people that are there in terms of their ages?
[01:13:18] Yeah.
[01:13:19] So we have a gem who is 31.
[01:13:23] We have Maria, who is one of our older or oldest person of the season at 47.
[01:13:29] We have Mariah, who is 28.
[01:13:31] And we have Tim, who is 30.
[01:13:34] And so I believe that Charlie is the fourth youngest person, but he's also still in school.
[01:13:39] And we talk about this all the time that like people who don't have a lot of experience
[01:13:43] outside of the educational, but he's like 25, right?
[01:13:46] 25.
[01:13:47] Yeah.
[01:13:48] Yeah.
[01:13:49] So I think he'll be okay.
[01:13:50] I don't think he's going to like overstep his boundaries too much.
[01:13:55] I mean, maybe from a mental perspective, I could say from a leadership perspective.
[01:13:59] Yeah.
[01:14:00] I don't think he's going to be like, Oh, we should definitely build the shelter over there.
[01:14:02] I don't think he either has the experience to do that, nor does he necessarily have the
[01:14:06] wherewithal to say, Oh, I don't want to stick my neck out and do that initially.
[01:14:10] But I do think this might be like a go-to puzzle person for a seagull because I think
[01:14:15] even if they don't know about his background, he still says I come across as very book smart.
[01:14:21] And so I imagine there's like a sweat versus savvy puzzle.
[01:14:25] They're putting him on it early on.
[01:14:26] And that could help his tribe, or it can hurt again.
[01:14:29] We saw it happen to Helen where she aces that savvy puzzle, but that's something where
[01:14:33] when Tika has their first vote, it makes people threatened by them.
[01:14:36] Another thing from your interview with him, Mike, that he talked about that he was scared
[01:14:41] of getting enchanted by an ally.
[01:14:45] That was a little concerning to me because I kind of feel like that if you are like deathly
[01:14:51] afraid of having your heart broken, you're never going to fall in love.
[01:14:56] Exactly.
[01:14:57] You got to open yourself up to failure to have loved and lost than to have never loved
[01:15:02] at all.
[01:15:03] I understand his perspective, though, of like going to all in on one person only to get
[01:15:08] your heart broken.
[01:15:09] Again, they just saw this happen to Jesse and Cody.
[01:15:12] You know, that is clean in their minds, this idea of you can't fully trust someone 100%
[01:15:20] because they, A, might be playing with other people, or B, might not have you in mind for
[01:15:25] that end game.
[01:15:26] So again, I like the idea that Charlie is couching this, that he is already premeditating these
[01:15:30] thoughts.
[01:15:31] I don't know if it will call to action to your point the fact that he's bringing up
[01:15:35] this this up as a vulnerability at all does worry me that he feels like one of his weaknesses
[01:15:41] could be, yeah, as much as I'm going to try to not fall in love immediately, I might just
[01:15:46] have to.
[01:15:47] And maybe that's also a byproduct of too much Taylor Swift.
[01:15:49] But if he only knew what was coming in Taylor's future, that she was able to get enchanted herself.
[01:15:55] So I do think it comes from a place of like, hey, well, I don't want to get enchanted by
[01:16:00] somebody and then get played because then people will say that I was dumb for that.
[01:16:08] And I'm wondering, like he's a super smart guy, I think that maybe he might be a little
[01:16:11] in his head of like, what will people say if I get duped?
[01:16:15] I could definitely see him of the cast members we talked about.
[01:16:19] There are few that I think would be most likely to get big move by this.
[01:16:22] I could see Charlie in that category, a smidge where maybe he's the one who bails on the relationship
[01:16:27] early.
[01:16:28] He gets in good with somebody and is like, but wait a minute, do I really want to take
[01:16:31] him to the end?
[01:16:32] What if they're seeing other people?
[01:16:34] I need to break this off before my heart gets broken.
[01:16:36] Okay.
[01:16:37] Mike, any final thoughts on Charlie?
[01:16:39] No, Charlie, I was enchanted to meet you.
[01:16:42] And I'm hoping that you're going to cement a new era for survivor right now.
[01:16:47] But yeah, I think Charlie overall has a lot of skills to set him up good within Siga.
[01:16:54] I think he also has a lot of like strong skills independently.
[01:16:57] But if you make it to the post-merge portion of the game, doesn't seem incredibly threatening,
[01:17:01] though again, if he is affiliated with the law, we know that could be something to serve
[01:17:06] as a reason to vote him out later on.
[01:17:09] But I'm excited to see what he's going to bring to tribal councils.
[01:17:12] It's going to be a tough act to follow, considering what Jake did with it, what he promised in
[01:17:17] the preseason, but should be fun regardless.
[01:17:19] Okay.
[01:17:20] Mike, what's coming up?
[01:17:21] We're going to take a break for the weekend when we come back on Monday.
[01:17:27] Who are we going to be talking about?
[01:17:28] Yeah.
[01:17:29] We're going to take a few days to kick back, do some transcendental shreddation, get ourselves
[01:17:34] in a good place because we are coming back.
[01:17:36] We talked about two of the men on Siga.
[01:17:38] Let's get into the ladies.
[01:17:39] I just mentioned them.
[01:17:40] We're going to talk about Jim and Maria, the next two members of the Siga tribe.
[01:17:45] Okay.
[01:17:46] All right.
[01:17:47] Looking forward to that.
[01:17:48] And of course, you can watch all these videos up at robswebside.com slash YouTube, Mike.
[01:17:51] What's he up going on over at parade.com?
[01:17:53] Well, even though my voice may be resting, my fingers will not over the weekend.
[01:17:58] I will still be putting out my written interviews with these castaways to at a time.
[01:18:03] Actually, at the time this is being released, I believe my written versions of my interviews
[01:18:07] with Ben and Charlie should be up.
[01:18:09] So be sure to check that out if you want a different medium.
[01:18:12] And of course, clicks are always greatly appreciated.
[01:18:14] We'll also put up some other miscellaneous stuff in the preseason as well.
[01:18:19] More so compilations as to everyone's answers to the questions that I asked from, you know,
[01:18:25] the sort of pre-generated list that I came up with in addition to the ones that I came
[01:18:28] up with in the moments, you can check all that out at parade.com as well as all the other
[01:18:33] stuff I'm doing on social media and on cameo at a Mike Bloom type.
[01:18:37] All right.
[01:18:38] So make sure you subscribe to the podcast for everything that we're doing, robswebside.com
[01:18:41] slash subscribe to almost any of our interviews.
[01:18:43] And if you happen to miss any from earlier this week, they're all up at robswebside.com.
[01:18:47] Thank you so much for joining us.
[01:18:49] Take care, everybody.
[01:18:50] Have a good one.
[01:18:51] Bye.
Transcription results written to '/home/forge/transcribe2.sonicengage.com/releases/20240210005726' directory
Rob Cesternino and Mike Bloom meet the seventh and eigth castaways from Survivor 46: Ben Katzman and Charlie Davis.