Survivor 46 | Finale Exit Interviews with the Final Five

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, what's going on Rob Cesternino back here for some final five exit interviews where we're going to talk to everybody from the finale, including our brand new survivor winner, Kenzie Petty, who will be here with us in just a moment. So, five interviews here

[00:00:21] today, we get roughly about 15 minutes with them each here in this exit interview special. I'm hoping that we will be able to do longer interviews with so many people from this cast

[00:00:34] later on in the next couple of weeks, so stay tuned for that. You can also watch the video of all of these interviews on our YouTube channel at robhasowebsite.com slash YouTube. Last night stayed up late, recapped the finale with Jesse Lopez who came by here in the

[00:00:51] studio. We had a lot of fun talking everything through from this finale and then on Thursday afternoon, I'm going to have Omer's here with me to talk in the regular Stephen Fishback spot. Stephen Fishback is traveling. I saw some people maybe raising their eyebrows

[00:01:07] as Stephen on a show. I guess we'll find out soon. But today, Omer is going to join us to talk about everything from the Survivor Finale that's going to be live at 3 p.m.

[00:01:19] Eastern. And so check that out and if you missed it, of course, you know where to find it. Then on Friday, I'll have our patron feedback show at 3 p.m. Eastern on Friday. But without further ado, let's welcome in the winner of Survivor 46, Kenzie Petty.

[00:01:36] All right, here we are with the woman who is our newest survivor winner. Congratulations, Kenzie. Thank you, Rob. It's so good to be here. How are you? I am so excited to get the chance to talk to you. Congratulations on your game and your win.

[00:01:57] It was super fun to watch and just I'm thrilled for you. Thank you so much. Yeah. And congratulations on your big announcement as well. Congratulations for your baby that's coming. Yes, yeah, baby boy in September.

[00:02:14] So it's all coming full circle. What a year. What a year it's going to be. Anyway, so, Kenzie, so much to get to. And we only have a little bit of time today, but I would just love to know from you

[00:02:25] how different was the game that you ended up playing different than the game you expected to come into survivor and play? You know, I don't think it was that much different. I knew I was going to come in and be positive and make a bunch of friends

[00:02:42] and make a bunch of connections. And I'm just glad that that's what got me through the end and ultimately brought home the W. Yeah. Were you surprised at the outcome? Did you feel like going into final drop of counsel that you had it?

[00:02:56] I felt like going into it, I had it. And then there was a point in the middle where Ben and Charlie both were just giving such good answers and the jury was responding really positively that I was like, oh, like I've got to step it up.

[00:03:11] And then Ben would answer one. It was like a perfect answer. And I was like, and then Charlie answered one. And it was another perfect answer. And I was like, I have got to get it. I have got to fight right now. Like this is the final step.

[00:03:23] So in the middle there, I was a little like, Kenzie, I've been thinking all morning about your win and your road to the end. And I think it's so interesting because I think that a bunch of the things

[00:03:36] that were probably really frustrating to you over the course of your game were things that I think ultimately helped you get the win. Oh, I agree 100 percent. I think the Yanu really was such a battle for me that I

[00:03:53] and there were so many like contentious relationships between like Q and I and Q and everyone and I had been with them since the beginning. It was just very complicated. But I feel like I got like the crash course in Survivor.

[00:04:06] It was like everybody's going for everyone immediately from day one, like buckle up and play. Do you feel like that being with Q for so much of the game kind of stifled what you were able to do in the game? I don't think it stifled it at all.

[00:04:21] I think it showed me where I could fit in. I was like, OK, that's not working. I'm not included in this. Where else can I go? I think saying you're stifled in Survivor is just not adapting.

[00:04:33] And I think that was a lot of my game was just adapting to who was willing to work with me and who I was getting along with and who else was getting left out of stuff. And that's ultimately like how the gathering of the goats

[00:04:46] as Ben coined it came together. Yeah, I don't mean stifling in a negative way because that from my perspective and tell me if I'm if I'm misreading this that I kind of feel like that in a in a different universe

[00:04:58] where Q is in there being such a distraction. I feel like that more people are waking up to the fact. Oh, my God, Kenzie is a big threat and we're letting her get very far in this game. Oh, Q was a perfect shield. Are you kidding me?

[00:05:13] He was perfect. I came into the merge. Everyone thinking I was the mermaid dragon and the mastermind. The mastermind getting away with murder, you know, I think Ben said. And I was able to like hide my threat level partially a from like my social game, but partially B

[00:05:32] because Q was like such a big distraction for multiple things, blindsides and what a big threat I was at the final nine. This came up at the final Trial of the Council. You had wanted to blindside Tiffany.

[00:05:44] You felt like that that was going to be a big move for your resume. Ultimately, that did not come together. And she gets blindside on the next vote without you. Do you feel like that had you at the final nine

[00:05:55] gone and blindsided Tiffany, would you have ended up in the end and ultimately the winner? I think the target would have been on me for that blindside. And I think regardless if I floated Tiff's name, she was going.

[00:06:10] Like I was blindsided by it, but watching it back and like seeing it. I'm like, there were people that wanted Tiff gone and I kind of like hopped on board more so than like we should get Tiff out. And then I was like, wait, this is stupid.

[00:06:22] Tiff is working with me. She has the idol. We know where it is. Like this is dumb. And all that did was make me look dumb for floating my number one's name when I think the re even if I wouldn't have said her name,

[00:06:34] the same results would have happened. Does that make sense? Yes. Like she still would have gone home. I still would have been left out of it. Like the same thing would have happened. I just looked down for floating her name.

[00:06:44] Can see something that lives rent free in my head is that your story of getting involved with survivor was during the pandemic, you went to go to your psychic to go get toilet paper who happened to have it all stored and hoarded.

[00:07:00] OK, and then she was watching Survivor on television and you said, what is it? What is this show looks interesting? What is this? And now here you are at the end of this journey. And this completely changes the way I look at the universe. This entire story.

[00:07:20] I'm so happy that I could enlighten you to some. She knew she knew. I know she was with me last night. She's like, I knew it. Wow, this is amazing. They like you did it all.

[00:07:34] She was like, because I was like, I wouldn't I wouldn't have done this without you. You know, thank you. And she was like spirit was looking out for you. You did. Wow. OK. Yeah. I hope you know, I'm sure your business is booming,

[00:07:46] but make sure you get some recommendations for her. Oh, definitely, definitely. Yeah, she's OK. One of the things that came up during the season was that when Randon got medically evacuated, that certainly from Q's perspective, he implied it was going to be you that went home.

[00:08:06] Another the again, the the universe, the spirits are looking out for you. Is that true? Do you think you would have gone home if Yanu had gone to tribal council that night? You know, it's hard to say, especially with Bonnu not having a vote. It's hard to say.

[00:08:22] I really don't think Tiff was voting for me. And it's hard to say a year later like what would have happened, but I don't I don't think it would have been me. Yeah. OK. Yeah. So they said last night that the votes changed hands.

[00:08:38] People, a bunch of people changed their votes at the final tribal council. Ultimately, you ended up getting Maria's vote. How surprised were you that you got Maria's vote? Oh, I was very surprised. I mean, everyone was, you know, people are still surprised.

[00:08:54] I think it just speaks to you never know who on the jury is going to decide what for what reason. You know, you just have to speak true on your game, honest from the heart. That's what I did.

[00:09:05] Something in what I said resonated with everyone who voted for me. And I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful for it. You know? Yeah, I'm just shout out, Maria, for that vote. Shout out everybody. But yeah. So after Tiffany ended up going home and you were blindsided by that,

[00:09:26] that's really an inflection point in your game, because that's when you end up working with Ben and Charlie and Liz and then the rest of the way, the you four just run the table to ultimately become the final four in the game.

[00:09:43] Did you know as soon as that vote was happening against Venus that this is the group? Yeah, definitely. It was the group for me. I knew that what were my other options? Q and Maria, I would have lost against both of them.

[00:09:58] But the only way I saw forward at that time was with my friends, with Charlie, Liz and Ben, and we were all just getting along really well. I think that goes a long way too. Like we really came together and made it happen.

[00:10:14] And we were such an unassuming group because none of us were really like the loud ones. We had been left out of so much. And really, those are the people you have to look out for because we came together and we ran it.

[00:10:28] At the final Tropic Council, it came up that Hunter said that you were the one that convinced him to not play the idol. And that was such a confusing vote for us at home in trying to process everything that was going on.

[00:10:41] Did any part of you want Hunter to stay at that point that he talked about that you and he actually had built a close relationship? Yeah, I mean, that's what's hard about survivor is I had actually told Hunter to play his idol at camp.

[00:10:55] And then when we got tribal that I couldn't attach my train to Hunter when everyone wanted him gone. You know, does that make sense? So I was like, I've got to play both sides. If Hunter plays it, I'm still good with Hunter.

[00:11:08] But if he doesn't, I'm good with everybody else. I'm playing both the middle here. And I did want him to stay because I loved Hunter, but he was such a big threat that if I would have attached myself to Hunter, he couldn't carry us both through the game.

[00:11:23] And it would have been him and I against everybody who wanted him gone. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what it's been like for you at work? Having all of this survivor success? It's been interesting. My clients are fun.

[00:11:42] I work in a very public place, so there have just been like people coming in this salon, which it's a place of business. It's I just I just want everyone to remember that people on your TV are not just like constantly accessible to you.

[00:11:55] We're working, we have lives, we have jobs. So please just be respectful of your reality TV stars. It's been weird. Were there any parts of your game that we didn't get to see this season that you feel like would be helpful to help us know about?

[00:12:15] I think it's so much of my game wasn't flashy. So much of my game was literally just sitting at camp and talking. And there's so much of that that's not shown because it's boring to show an hour long conversation about Harry Potter.

[00:12:29] But that's not going to make the cut or an hour long conversation about dogs, you know, it and that really was so much of my game. I really got to know every a little bit about everyone and a lot of a lot of people

[00:12:43] know like that really is I think how I made it to the end. Were there any moments in the final trial of counsel that somebody came in particularly hot? I think everybody was hot.

[00:12:59] I don't know if it was the pressure or what, but everybody was coming in hot and it was when Q was trying to gas like me about the Tim thing. Yeah. You know, but you got his vote.

[00:13:09] Were you surprised that ultimately you went back and forth with Q at final trial of counsel, but he voted for you? Yeah, I was surprised. But at the same time, like I know Q very well. And I was like, Q is going to respect

[00:13:22] honesty and respect a hustle. And I was like, look, I'm not going to bullshit you about the money. I'm spending it on myself and Q was like, it's like, OK, he said that was the reason why he voted for you.

[00:13:36] He said that was the only reason for his vote. The answer to his question and he didn't care about what anybody else said. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't say that. That is what I'm doing with the money.

[00:13:45] I didn't say that to get Q's vote, but I also know how to communicate with Q. So I was like, all right. Yeah, he's not going to respect me if I like back down to him barking at me. Like, I have to bark back.

[00:13:58] Like, he's going to respect that whether he believes me or not. You know what I mean? Yeah, you had been with him for so long, you knew how he ticked. Yeah, I mean, kind of. Drive. Yeah. OK. Now, Kenzie, this spot in life is, you know,

[00:14:15] you have all these blessings coming your way. But then on the other hand that people are talking about going back for anniversary seasons of Survivor, do you feel like are you retired? Are you retired for now for Survivor? Are you a wait and see?

[00:14:33] I'm like, I'm pretty retired. Like I had a good run. I still don't know how Twitter works. So I did that. It was fun while it lasted. I got everything I wanted out of the island. I got the letter. I got the sanctuary.

[00:14:47] I got the friends. I got the million. Like I had such a full and wonderful and beautiful experience. I don't I don't know what else. That's such a beautiful attitude. It's like when you're up at the casino, just leave.

[00:15:01] Yeah, you know, I would love to see my friends win it, you know? Yeah, I don't want to take it from him again. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. All right. Well, I know you have a super busy day here today,

[00:15:11] but I appreciate you making some time for us again. We're so happy over here for your win. My wife asked me to say to that she wanted to tell you that she loves you and she hates everybody, not your cast.

[00:15:24] Just in general, she hates most people, but she loves you. That is really special. I wish I could hear something like that. Yeah, sorry, Rob. My husband did not say that. But yeah, so I would I would love to chat with your lovely wife. OK, all right.

[00:15:46] Yeah, Kenzie, congratulations again, all the best to you and your family and great job all season. Thank you so much, Rob. All right, everybody, there you have it. Kenzie, your new survivor winner. And it's I think not a mystery to anybody of how Kenzie won the season.

[00:16:04] Kenzie is just an absolute delight to talk to. I think we got that all season long. I think she had such an interesting journey to the win. And she had a lot of things that didn't go her way and things that in the short term look bad.

[00:16:20] And ultimately, I think ended up going in her favor. I think it's going to be a season and a win that we talk about for a long time. I think it says a lot about the state of, you know, how to play survivor in the new era.

[00:16:36] I'm looking forward, certainly, to talking a little bit more about her win later on today, certainly with Olmer, because I think that this charismatic figure is just so dangerous, especially the charismatic figure that you don't see coming.

[00:16:55] You know, Caleb is the charismatic figure that you see coming a mile away. He had no chance in Survivor 45. Kenzie is just super dangerous as a player and as a threat. And so I wonder if we see the game adapting at some point to

[00:17:14] the Kenzies of the world where the people from her season saw just saw Jam Jam win again. A very social, charming player who ends up winning the season. The last one that they just saw before this, and they still couldn't stop Kenzie from getting the win anyway.

[00:17:33] So congratulations again to Kenzie. We've still got four more exit interviews to go. Let's take a quick break, break for 60 seconds, and then let's come right back with our runner up, Charlie. Wustest du das Zehntausende Deutsche Unternehmen bereits Shopify nutzen?

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[00:18:50] I'm a little I'm a little tired, but I've got enough caffeine in my veins. I'm ready to roll. Yeah, let's go. Let's rock. OK, Charlie, what a wild season and night this was for you. Could you just talk about how you're feeling and seeing the reaction now

[00:19:09] that everybody has seen all this? Man, I mean, it's tough to put into one one feeling, one emotion. It's it's a lot at once, you know, just like it was out on the island. I mean, what a roller coaster, what a wild ride this season was.

[00:19:25] And it was so fun to watch it back in it. I felt like it was a great finale and a great end of the season. So it was awesome to watch back. It's also watching back some pretty pretty painful, pretty, you know,

[00:19:38] moments, you know, looking at myself be a sad, dejected puppy again. You know, I can Charlie was the dog. I was, you know, the dependable dog that ended up being very sad. Yeah. Well, I want to give you your flowers

[00:19:54] in terms of the game that you played because I thought it was very, very impressive. You really demonstrated a knack for the strategic. You had good social relationships. You won challenges. You beat challenge beasts at times.

[00:20:09] And so I thought it was just a very, very well rounded game. Do you feel like that a game like yours might be better suited for the longer 39 day game versus the 20. You're a marathoner. Yeah. 26 days is a sprint. That's true. That's true.

[00:20:28] That's what I always tell people. If you look at the marathon world record holders, they're not they're not jogging. You know, it's fast and steady wins the race. But it's a good question. I do think so.

[00:20:39] Honestly, I think that's more just like my personality and like my strengths to like is sort of being able to focus. And I mean, you saw in the aftershare, like I lost the most weight out there

[00:20:49] out of anyone. But I mean, I think, you know, I'm not going to name names, but I think there were some people that maybe had a little bit less composure than me, even within those conditions. So I was able to really keep my cool.

[00:21:01] I think that was one of my huge strengths. So I think that I think I mean, I don't know, but would have definitely carried a lot stronger over 39 days. You know, I think I would be definitely advantaged by, you know,

[00:21:15] having people crumble a little bit more around me. But yeah, I don't know. I maybe maybe it would have. I think I played a very I would guess it may be say like a clinical game. Like I was, you know, kept my threat level very low.

[00:21:28] I do think I had a lot of control over who was going home at the same time. So I do think that would lend itself to a longer game as well. I mean, I think it worked decently over 26 days to not not quite good enough.

[00:21:42] But no, that's an interesting question. I hadn't really thought about that. How do you come to grips? And I know you've got an amazing grip strength with, you know, OK, well, the problem with Charlie was just not enough flash there.

[00:21:57] Really would have liked to have seen maybe like a flashier move on the resume. Versus Kenzie who, wow, what a great social game. Amazing relationships. How do you come to grips with with OK? Well, what else did I have to do? Honestly, it's tough.

[00:22:18] It's tough. And part of me is wondering, you know, like if I made a flashier move, would it really have mattered? You know, just for example, one of the easiest example would probably be, you know, if I sent myself into fire, because apparently that is a very flashy

[00:22:34] move these days. Clearly on the show, you saw it as someone of a different way of thinking about it. But it's so hard to know because, you know, juries are very, very hard to predict. So that's honestly just take away from it all.

[00:22:52] And I actually think at Final Tribal there were more gameplay moments that I brought up. I do think, you know, in most people's minds and talking to jurors after the game, I sort of won the strategic game battle with Kenzie.

[00:23:09] So I don't know maybe obviously you can always add more in that category. But, you know, I don't know if that's even the same lane that I lost in, you know, you know, so if I had, you know, more resume moves,

[00:23:24] I don't know if it would have even changed it. I don't know maybe. Yeah. Can you talk about with the fire making, you know, I normally would not advocate for somebody to go into the Final Four firemaking.

[00:23:35] But it did seem like that Liz was going to have some problems. And I know you with your grip strength, it seemed like that the fire was still going to be something that might have come easy for you.

[00:23:45] I know you didn't want to gamble, but in this one instance of going up against Liz, was it tempting? It's an interest. I'll tell you a story. So I obviously in hindsight, I think I would have wiped the floor with both of them in fire.

[00:24:00] I don't know if they said how long that challenge went on for, but part of the reason I started giving advice is that it was like painfully long to the point where I was like, he's going to break out matches.

[00:24:09] It took so long, which also I was like, the jury was like, it seemed like upset with them that they couldn't make fire. So that's why I was so shocked at Maria's answer that she was like, oh, it's the fire and horizon.

[00:24:21] The challenge I was like, OK, right. It wasn't glinting, you know, the fire because it wasn't being made. But, you know, sorry, I don't mean to throw shade. But. So I did think I was like, why gamble? You know, fire can be so unpredictable.

[00:24:41] And then there was actually a moment I was like bouncing back and forth between Kenzie and Liz and I actually went to go see Liz. And for the first like it was the first time I went inside and she had like a roaring fire going.

[00:24:53] So I was like, oh, this is this is cruising. And I don't think it spooked me necessarily, but I didn't have the same perception that maybe Liz had of herself that she was terrible at fire, but also another component of my strategy,

[00:25:06] which, you know, the last thing I watched was, you know, Jam Jam win and how he helped Carson in the fire making challenge. And that was like seemed like a huge reason he got Carson's vote. So I was doing that with both Kenzie and Liz,

[00:25:19] and that was sort of how I was thinking about it. I was like, I'm maybe getting myself a chance at a direct jury vote. And I think it really honestly helped me get Liz's vote in the end because I helped her learn how to build like a teepee

[00:25:35] and actually build the fire up. And she was saying, like, you know, like, you were my miracle. Like, thank you so much. So I viewed it as, you know, I was playing it as successfully as I could.

[00:25:45] Yeah. So I want to go back to that final tribal council. Could you tell at all during final tribal council that the vibes were off with Maria? It was hard to tell. And honestly, I can't tell if, you know, survivor production

[00:26:02] like tells the jury to kind of like give people a little bit of like a stone face because it felt like that throughout the whole game. I don't know if they were just upset, which is the other alternative explanation.

[00:26:13] You know, maybe it wasn't as warm as I was expecting, but I, you know, I wasn't putting like a crazy amount of stock into her exact facial expressions. But, you know, especially watching it back to, no, it definitely maybe I should have picked up on more.

[00:26:28] But honestly, I, I, you know, I didn't expect her to hand me a vote for free. But I did really think I had her vote locked down. And, you know, I thought, you know, she just wants me to, you know, earn it or whatever.

[00:26:41] You know, I even think back to Malcolm and Denise, like Malcolm pushed Denise hard in his question, you know, at final tribal council. So, you know, I wasn't expecting her to be like, Charlie, I'm voting for you, you know, publicly at Final Tribal or anything like that.

[00:26:55] But, you know, maybe there were some some signs I should have seen. Yeah. Because the thing I think that has been confusing for people is that a lot of the precedent is either, OK, I'm going to give you a vote.

[00:27:07] Is either, OK, I'm going to give my ally a hard time at the final tribal council, like Malcolm with Denise, like Trish with Tony. But in the end, I'm going to vote for them or like a Sioux Hawk sort of

[00:27:20] like come in, scorched earth, you know, right away, you've lost my vote. I'm going to dress you down. It seems like that this was a surprise and then that she didn't tip you off. And then in the voting booth, ultimately that's where the surprise came.

[00:27:35] Yes. Yeah, that is that is really how I felt. I did. I didn't. And, you know, I gave a very long emotional answer about I don't think they showed it about Maria and really giving her her flowers

[00:27:48] in her game and saying why I had to felt I had to take her out. How I how I moved those pieces against her and really just, you know, singing her praises at the same time, you know, explaining my game. And I thought that landed very well.

[00:28:06] So, yeah, it was it was a big, a big surprise. Yeah, looking back at this long relationship over 24 days in the game, is there something that you feel like that you could have handled differently? Man, it's tough. Maybe maybe.

[00:28:30] One moment, which maybe stands out because the the very almost the very first thing Maria asked me after the game was when did you start gunning for me? And then I learned that it's actually an interesting moment. Back at the Tiffany vote, a major piece of my strategy

[00:28:50] that wasn't shown was in order to get Tiffany not to play her idol, I basically say to Tiffany, let's use this to get Maria out later. I had told Tiffany that Maria wanted her out. You know, we were strategizing very closely.

[00:29:02] I was very much nurturing that relationship with Tiffany. So that's a big reason why. And I think Tiff talked about it or ex-opressed why she didn't play her idol at Pondie. Tiff was very pro. Kenzie, very pro Kenzie, understandably. Heck, I wish my number one did that.

[00:29:20] And I think and I've heard that, you know, Tiffany basically said, you know, he was coming for you for a while and that like blindsided Maria. And, you know, I, of course, explained to her right away, you know, Maria, I said that so Tiff wouldn't play her idol.

[00:29:32] So that move could go off without a hitch. But I don't know if that, you know, did something in her brain, but I couldn't have predicted that because she came independently after me. So I didn't think that any sort of information about, you know,

[00:29:46] me also playing the game hard should have swayed her vote. But I have been told at Pondie that, you know, that apparently did have an impact. But I don't think I ever. Interesting.

[00:29:57] So, Charlie, now you do have this story of that you went so deep into the game. It was just one vote away from you ultimately winning. I'm wondering like, is there a possibility for redemption?

[00:30:13] Are you open to returning for more survivor potentially in the next couple of years? Oh, man. Are they doing a returning season? I haven't heard anything about that. So, no, I listen, survivors like it's like torture, but it's also, you know, torture in a good way.

[00:30:32] I'd play the game again 100 percent. Some of the highest highs out there. Oh my gosh, so much fun, like putting together blindsides and oh my gosh, I had a good, good time, even though it was really, really freaking painful

[00:30:47] in the end, but yeah, definitely hungry, hungry for more. Absolutely. All right. Well, Charlie, I'm dying to have a longer conversation about all of this at some point in the future. So I hope that we can work that out. But again, congratulations.

[00:30:59] I just really thought you had a stellar game this season and wish you nothing but the best outside the game. And feel free anytime you want in our conversations to use as many Taylor Swift references as you want. Oh, maybe, maybe.

[00:31:15] We'll see. We'll see. I'll have to think of some, but I appreciate the free license there. Go for it. OK, Charlie, all the best to you. Take care. OK? Yeah, thanks, Rob. All right, everybody, there you have it, Charlie Davis. And I stand by what I said.

[00:31:30] I thought that Charlie Davis was the most well-rounded player certainly from this season. I just thought that he to me was such a classic survivor player in terms of like an old school game of being this manipulator behind the scenes.

[00:31:49] But I do think that there are some questions about whether or not that translates as well to the shorter game. Like it's great for us at home where, OK, we are seeing and hearing from Charlie exactly like, OK, here are the little moves I'm making

[00:32:07] that is influencing the bigger strategic picture. But the problem with little moves is that I think that maybe to the people on the jury, it's like, well, I didn't really see it that way. And, you know, they don't have all of the same information.

[00:32:21] So I think it's hard for a player like I think of Charlie a little bit like Todd who could win challenges. And ultimately, I think that's on paper. That sounds great. But ultimately, I just think that it didn't play as well.

[00:32:39] And maybe Charlie in a different season with a different jury ends up being a winner, but still an incredible job by Charlie. And I think that there are certainly some prospects of Charlie now with this story of being potentially a robbed player to put that in air quotes.

[00:33:00] Maybe Charlie is somebody that we could see back on our screens in the next couple of years. So very interesting stuff. Great interview with Charlie also in the final three. Ben Katzman is coming up and let's check out my interview with Ben.

[00:33:18] Hey, Ben, what's going on? Rob, Cisternino, Ben, how are you? Chilling mad hard. Chilling mad hard. A little bit. Yes. OK. Well, very excited to finally get the chance to talk a little bit about your game. And first off on the one hand,

[00:33:37] congrats on the final four immunity challenge win. Thanks, dude. I'm I am glad they shared that of everything. But that was, you know, you want to pinball wizard. You wasted it a week early. So I you know, dude, when I saw that, I was like,

[00:33:58] they knew what they were doing. And I did. Yeah, I don't know that moment for me was was a lot. It was like I didn't know I was like so dazed, but something just like clicked and rocked, you know.

[00:34:11] Yeah. All right. Well, I would love to hear a little bit more about your journey over the course of this season. You know, a big part of your story on the show was all of the you know, nighttime terrors. Is that the right?

[00:34:27] Would that be the right? Yeah. To talk about. Can you just talk a little bit about what you were experiencing and help people understand a little bit about what that was? It's crazy because it's like it really wasn't mental as far as I felt out there.

[00:34:43] Like I felt like my body had a life of its own. And it just kind of started. It kind of started after Mo went home. I remember I didn't know it was winter in Fiji. I went to sleep wearing my shorts.

[00:34:57] And I just remember waking up, I shot up and like my arm. I fell asleep on my arm. So I thought I like pinched a nerve. That's what happened to Randan. Exactly. And that's like I was like, oh, I'm never going to play guitar again.

[00:35:10] I was freaking out, you know. And then obviously. I chilled hard with Tim and Kenzie by the fire that night. I'll ever forget I popped up and held Kenzie's hand and Tim goes, that's benevolence. And as it progressed, I just had no control.

[00:35:27] It was like I didn't eat from the merge feast to the pizza reward. I had like a scoop of rice that morning because Liz had just gotten rice. There was no fruit. I couldn't stand another coconut. I was trying to gobble them down,

[00:35:41] but it was like my body would throw it up and it was crazy because, you know, like I knew what was happening. I would wake up screaming and then be like, oh, my God, I know I'm okay, but like I can't.

[00:35:53] Like my body had this shaking feeling the whole time and it was cold the whole time. That's why you eventually see me only wearing long sleeve stuff except at the challenges, even when it was blazing hot out. And it was a lot because you're in this game.

[00:36:08] You want to play. You know, you're not at the top. You know, you're somewhere in the bottom, but you know, you have this perception of you and you know, like you can't even put on a front because you're rubbed so raw.

[00:36:21] So I had no choice but to be myself and I'm glad that I wasn't like a hangry, you know, a hangry bitch. I could have gotten to that. I'm glad it was like I'm still smiling and stoked to be there. But it wasn't just the night terrors.

[00:36:34] It was like, when you're in the game, it's all you can think about. And my relief was the people who took care of me. Charlie, Kenzie, Liz, Venus and it was those human moments and that's I think what was able to form that friendship

[00:36:52] that made it so far for all of us. Yeah, you know, that friendship really wasn't highlighted. It doesn't even look like Liz and I interact out of the journey. But like she would heat up a rock for me when I was cold.

[00:37:03] She put like a rock on the next to the fire and then she'd be like, put this in your shirt and would help me go to sleep because I had some insulation, you know? And Liz did a lot of very Mima stuff.

[00:37:16] When she got rice, she didn't feed us. When we were in the challenges, she was like the grandma. Yeah, but she would sing songs in the challenge, too. Obviously for her daughters, all that in that in that one with the snake and like the ball on the stick.

[00:37:31] She's saying this like lullaby style song I had never heard before. And Liz was such a calming energy and presence, even though she would say insanely funny, absurd stuff. Yeah. And yeah. So when I think about the night terrors,

[00:37:46] I think about the people that helped me get through them. And I wish it was shown because I feel like it would have also explained what I thought made the final four get to the final four was that we work close together and everybody who was playing hard

[00:38:01] was so concerned about taking out their number ones and making these resume moves that they didn't realize they were just taking themselves out. And me and Charlie could rely on being swing votes at the right time. And I think it's like at the hunter vote,

[00:38:14] it makes the most sense. Yeah. It was like, he's got to go. He should have gone instead of Tim, obviously. I love Hunter. But it's like, if he gets through this tribal, who knows how many more challenges he's going to win?

[00:38:25] I really believed he could have crushed all of them. And he was such a sweetheart. And he was so good at talking about strategy with people that was like, he's the perfect package. This is it. And so like when we found out

[00:38:37] Kenzie was willing to turn on Tiff, it was the perfect opportunity to use Maria's rage against Tiff as a move for ourselves to get one more target out because at that point, I really was rocking with Tiff as well.

[00:38:50] And I think I talked about it in entertainment weekly, but I was like, it was kind of Tiff season to win in my eyes at that point in the game. So yeah, it was it was that's what I think about all the jocks,

[00:39:04] not paying attention to all the weirdos who band together Lord of the fly style, you know? Yeah. So all right, you mentioned some of these swing votes. I know you've talked about it today, but just for for us. OK, if you had to break the tie for four,

[00:39:24] what are you doing? Listen, no disrespect to Kenzie. Her win rips. I think she was great at final tribal. She was. She did really control her threat level. You know, that day she won immunity and Tim went home.

[00:39:38] I think she would have potentially been on the chopping block. And that's what me and her clicked. And she saved me in the game. Like it would have been me or Tim. And I think Kenzie is the big reason it wasn't me, you know?

[00:39:50] But Charlie was my day one. People on camera said Charlie's not smart enough to break through in the secret six. There's that scene with Hunter and Tevin and Q on the boat. And they're like, oh, like, right, kind of like a three stewages energy.

[00:40:07] And Charlie found his way right into that power dynamic, knew when to say the right things, knew how to use the bottom four and the top four at the same time. I mean, like any one those challenges with Grace

[00:40:18] and he had a smile on the whole time and like, I didn't sleep. He also didn't sleep because he was there for me, you know? And like our bromance is subtly hinted at up until the merge and then disappears, but it really was there the whole time.

[00:40:35] One of the reasons he didn't pick me for that family reward or the electric from home is because I was like, dog, I just got pizza. I love you. Kenzie's got to get a letter from her fiancee. Liz has a kid.

[00:40:47] Like, what am I going to get a letter from my dog? You know, like it was like this understanding that like it's all good no matter which way you go. And it's the reason I didn't put him at fires

[00:40:57] because I really thought he had it in the bag, you know? It was like you're watching the show day after day. It's like the dude was like a master class in survivor composure. Yeah. So, you know,

[00:41:10] now, so dazed and like there's a chance I would have voted for Kenzie to like those were my people, you know? And I knew I wasn't going to win before I went into tribal. I just wanted to get there and tell my game. So yeah.

[00:41:25] So let me ask you just with that with OK, so you took Charlie with you and then Kenzie ultimately came with you. Yeah. Was that more that those were your two buds? Or was it really that OK, oh, Liz will win if she gets to the end?

[00:41:42] Well, Liz had the numbers and Liz didn't get a chance to tell her strategy the whole game and Liz was very low key. And I would have loved Liz at the end too, even if people are saying we could have beat Liz. It's not the point.

[00:41:55] It's like you make it far. You deserve a chance to say your game play, which is something I didn't get to do. And I don't need to be an advocate of that. But it's like, yeah, it was hard to pick between all three of them.

[00:42:08] You know, like and that's why I'm I'm bummed when I watch it back and it doesn't show all those wonderful dynamics because at home, you know, I've been to Applebee's in Disney with Liz. You know, like, uh, Kenzie and I were obviously very close on the island.

[00:42:23] Charlie and I have hung out so many times. It really was like I knew I wouldn't win. But I just wanted my homies to have a shot. And there was a conversation with Kenzie that day and part of it is in the show where it's like she's like,

[00:42:39] we all thought Charlie had it in the bag. Kenzie was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. She's like, I wouldn't be mad if you put me at fire because I just want one more thing on the resume.

[00:42:49] And I was like, I was rocking so hard with Kenzie. I'm like, you know, if anybody wants to say they saw a fire in her eyes, I think it should be me, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's what it what it came down to.

[00:43:02] It wasn't people say, oh, it's dumb strategy on my part. Like, you know, I'm not an idiot, dude. Those people never asked me how I was doing with my night terrors. They only told me what moves they wanted to make. They didn't ask my opinion on anything.

[00:43:17] So I was just like, I'll be happy if I get to tell my story. And the fact that I have only slept, like a couple hours here and there for 14 days and I'm standing here is enough for me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. OK, so yes.

[00:43:31] So throughout a lot of the post merge, I think that there was a thought of that the Sega three was working together. Well, what was there a Sega three post merge? No, Maria, there's a secret scene where she's like

[00:43:49] doling me out, calling me a liar based on something Q told her, which was about the gem advantage or whatever. And she had been kind of saying not night. She didn't even talk to me most of the time.

[00:44:00] It was like, again, that's that masterclass of Charlie being like Maria and Ben should probably talk. But again, it was like Maria trying to tell me what she thought every move was not realizing that in order for those moves to work,

[00:44:13] it's got to be the final what became the bottom four. And we did work together in a capacity, but it wasn't like the vibe tribe. You know, like it's not even, you know, it's like when she's calling me a liar in the last episode,

[00:44:28] that wasn't because of the Kenzie vote. That was going on the entire time. And it was hard for me because I liked Maria. We were tight before the merge. I don't know why she chose to flip on me. And even that pizza reward, no conversation was shown.

[00:44:44] But it was her and Q being like, we want you to sit at final three. If you've got to take somebody out, is it going to be Charlie or Kenzie? And Q was supposed to write Kenzie's name. But I hadn't eaten for nine days.

[00:44:56] You know, I talked about it earlier, but I wish they would release the footage of me writing Kenzie's name down because I was talking about Venus as I held the vote up. It was like, you snapped on me. You've been annoyed the hell out of me today.

[00:45:10] I'm sorry, dog. You got to go. Kenzie never snapped on your annoyed. So you kind of absorb that Q was supposed to write down Kenzie's name at that tribal council and some of the wires got crossed. Yes. Even started on Twitter.

[00:45:24] So it's corroborated, you know, and we've talked about it since. But like to me, I was like, when I made that mistake after I put the vote and I said, I was like, this might be a big mistake, but it's the best mistake

[00:45:35] because now they can go and say all the stuff about me. But all the people that are ready, don't mess with them that are my besties. We'll probably be like, they really try to get Ben out with us. Like that's our guy. We've been hanging out every day.

[00:45:48] You know, OK, Ben, I know you got to run. You're on tight schedule. I'd love to talk more in the future. I would love to. Real quick, tell me. I know you're touring. Where could people find out about what you're doing?

[00:45:59] OK, so right now I got my own dates with my own band. I got a new single out tonight called Fires, right? About about making some fire. I've got a show in Fort Lauderdale on June 1st. There might be a guest trumpet appearance from coach.

[00:46:12] Well, yeah, we've been jamming. But my other band, Gorilla Toss, is touring with Primus in July. We will be playing across the Midwest and the West Coast. And then in August, I will have a bunch of dates of my own. I'll be playing like the Hopscotch Festival

[00:46:27] and the Three Points Festival. So there will be a lot of opportunities to find me. If you find me on social media, I'm always posting where I'm going to be with my guitar. OK, all right. Thank you for allowing me to talk rock.

[00:46:38] You got you got it, Ben. Keep rocking. OK. And we'll talk to you soon. OK, buddy. Later, my dude. Have a good one. Take care. Bye. All right, everybody, there you have it. There's my interview with Ben, who seems just like a really genuine guy.

[00:46:54] And, you know, he had a hard time out there with dealing with everything at night, but ultimately happy that he came out of this experience on the other side feeling pretty good about it. He was a guy he wanted to play with who he wanted to play with

[00:47:10] that he was probably very atypical for players in this era that it's like, OK, any name, any vote, like he is somebody he never would have turned on his number one that he didn't care necessarily too much about voting blocks.

[00:47:27] You know, he wanted to work with the people that he vibed with. And that was how we played the game. So Ben, I think was a very refreshing player in the new era to have here.

[00:47:38] So all the best to Ben looking forward to talking with him more in the future. We still have an interview with Liz and an interview with Maria. They're coming up after we come back right after this. Hey, Liz, what's going on? Rob, sister and Liz, how are you?

[00:47:56] Oh, my gosh, I'm so good. I made it on the call. Look at you, Liz, ready to go. Best microphone set up by far out of any of the interviews. So well done by you. Thank you. Yes. OK, Liz, let me start off with something

[00:48:12] that I read on social media this morning that have to get your take about. We saw all season about how you are a very wealthy person playing the game of survivor. Was that. Inaccurate. Yeah, I would say that I am very rich in time.

[00:48:36] I don't know anyone who has more time than I do. I work about four hours a day. Yes, but I'm not actually a millionaire. I went out on the island and I knew like, oh, if I say I own a company.

[00:48:49] Oh, my gosh, you know, it's like the season 45 lawyer curse, right? You know, oh, don't tell anybody you're a lawyer. Don't tell anybody you're successful. But I thought, well, I can't hide that. It's a huge part of my identity coming out of poverty.

[00:49:02] So what if I just exaggerated it? What if I said, hey, I'm large, I'm in charge, I'm worth millions. I'm just here on a dare for my daughter. You know, I just watch Survivor because of the hot guys like whoa.

[00:49:15] You know, I don't even I used to say that a lot. I mean, like, I'd be like, Hunter, what's up? And what if what if I just leaned into the most ridiculous parts about myself that most people just like Rob just looked at me, you know,

[00:49:29] go back 10 seconds. He's like, what? Right. That's the reaction that I purposely very intentionally wanted so that people would say like, oh, yeah, let's leave. Let's leave Liz alone. Like let's use her for a vote. She's obviously smart, but she's never going to win.

[00:49:44] She's never going to make it because this, that and the other. And it was my intention at Final Tribal and be like, actually, this, that and the other mostly exaggerated, not true. Actually, a single mom, I support three households very similar to Kenzie's story.

[00:49:59] Give me the money. OK. And so this maybe is like a little bit of a disconnect where I think a lot of people watch the episode and felt like, OK, well, why is Liz so confident that she's got this in the bag?

[00:50:11] Was that the reason why you had so much confidence going into the finale that if you could have just gotten in front of that jury and then had that sort of biggest reveal at Final Tribal Council in the history of the show, you feel like that that's

[00:50:27] ultimately what would have been the missing piece. Exactly. Yes, of course. And even during my casting process, Jeff propes himself, looked at me and said, Liz, you're the most confident weirdo I've ever met. And I was like, have you ever met Coach?

[00:50:44] Like, you know, you know, Tyson, like, wow, that's a really big compliment. So I knew that my confidence going in, number one, would you know, help people see the truth of it. And I had, you know, a couple other moves, a couple other things.

[00:50:59] Remember when, remember when, remember when that I was pretty confident that I could sway people, especially the people that were on my tribe that were like, wait, yeah, she did say that. Oh, shit, she did say that. Oh snap, I glossed over that.

[00:51:13] And so I really was very confident on top of that's what Jeff's opening speech was. You know, a lot of you have this blind optimism. Right? I think we've all got it. Liz, so did production know that you were going to come into the game with this lie?

[00:51:31] They did not know I was going to come in with it, but they didn't know about it. I talked about it all the time. Yeah, that was the most surprising thing for me watching the show back. I was like, oh snap, where was that?

[00:51:44] Oh, that was highly edited. Yeah, because it seems odd that, you know, you had this strategy and then ultimately it never came up on the show and it was presented as OK, this is something I'm projecting on to to the other players.

[00:52:02] But usually when somebody has something like this, they tell they share it with the audience. Yeah, I shared it all the time. I would exaggerate. Oh, I have 10,000 members in my $9 membership. And you can see right here, this is a chart. I can't point for my 10,000 members.

[00:52:20] I only have about 4,000. So I mean, I do all right for myself. But when you think about all the households and mouths I feed, you know, there's not really much left over. And so I talked about that all the time, like, oh, I'm exaggerating it. I'm exaggerating it.

[00:52:34] Yeah, I sold companies, but, you know, it's for like $15,000. So like it's not, but, you know, entrepreneurs don't know that. And so I don't know why they didn't show it. But I will say I had a feeling in the after show.

[00:52:47] And that's why I kind of look for Lorne. I know I played a really risky game that would be very easily edited out. I played a game of attract, not chase. You know, I wanted people to feel attracted to me for certain reasons.

[00:53:01] And so it's not the most riveting television unless I win, right? Unless, like Rob just said, I get to the end and I drop the biggest bomb in survivor history, which I didn't get to do. So it was very easily edited out.

[00:53:15] Also that it seemed like that you were noticeably quiet at the final tribal council, based on what we saw on television. Did you have to give this reveal at the final tribal council? Yeah, this is so embarrassing. So when I lost fire, I was very upset.

[00:53:33] I was fully convinced. Day 25, I'm making it to the end. I have this, that and the other bomb to drop. This is going to be great. And I even went into tribal. I had made fire over five times that day. And Kenzie said she was choking all day.

[00:53:47] So I was fully convinced I was going to win fire. And so I was, I was in shock. And if you haven't noticed by what, by the Applebee's thing, I'm someone who when I'm feeling something, I just feel it.

[00:53:58] And then I'm able to get over it quickly, right? And so I was just letting myself feel so sad. And I choked out and it's, it's funny and it's kind of cringy, to be honest. I choked out, I'm not a millionaire.

[00:54:12] But I couldn't get the part out about I actually have a lot of people that rely on me and I really need this effing money. Um, but you know, I was, I was so choked up. You said this from the jury at the final.

[00:54:27] No, I said this, I said this before my torch was snuffed. OK. And to the jury and to the people sitting next to me. And I think it fell flat simply because I was such an emotional wreck.

[00:54:39] And because I had played a game to make myself look so ridiculous. It was just one of those other things that people were like, this bitch is out of control. OK, her off the screen.

[00:54:51] Yeah. I mean, Liz, you're a popularity, I think really as the season went on that I felt like that towards the end of the season, so many people were saying that Liz is comedy gold. Liz is such a great character.

[00:55:05] I mean, how does it feel to have this recognition? I think it feels good to be honest. I've really been ignoring the Internet for the last few weeks as I feel like and we knew this out there.

[00:55:23] Kenzie and I talk about it so much about Liz, you're going to be so polarizing. There will not be anyone that says, eh, she's all right. You will either really, really love me or you will think I am bio and a waste of space.

[00:55:39] And so it feels really good when people say, oh my gosh, comedy gold. She's so funny. If you watch closely, she's doing this at the other. But it feels just as bad when, you know, dot, dot, dot. Yeah. OK.

[00:55:53] It's kind of lost in that Maria voted for Kenzie. But I think it was also probably the second most surprising vote was that you voted for Charlie. I think a lot of people thought that you were going to be a Kenzie vote.

[00:56:05] Could you just talk us through why Charlie? Yeah, shout out to Kenzie, but I never really was going to vote for her. And not a bad way. I love Kenzie. I just I really am. I know that didn't show it, but I have a very like strategic mind.

[00:56:24] And I felt like, you know, the masterminding of Charlie trumped the social ability of Kenzie, which honestly, you know, who has the last laugh, right? But I really very specifically voted for Charlie because at final seven, he convinced me to not vote for Q

[00:56:45] and he did that to shield himself. Right. And that to me like blew my mind. I was like, oh, yeah, you did convince me, even though I had a final three with Kenzie and Venus, you got me to go against my plan. Yeah. And that's wicked smart.

[00:57:02] And I got played. So I voted for him. How about your relationship with Q went through? A lot of back and forth. We know with Applebee's, but then I saw that you two had a secret scene where it seemed like you came to an understanding.

[00:57:17] What is the status of your relationship with Q? I would say that it's fine. I don't know if we have like a big relationship, but I think personally, I have a lot of respect for Q. I actually think Q and I are very similar.

[00:57:32] And he's the first person I went up to at the merge when they arrived on Nami Beach. I shook his hand. I said, I've been dying to meet you because I could just tell, you know, he said, oh, it was a business decision. Why we didn't do sweat.

[00:57:45] I was like, oh, this is a businessman. And I could just tell by his demeanor, he was this large and in charge person. And I considered myself the same, but I thought, oh, I can I'm five feet tall and everybody thinks I'm a doofus.

[00:57:57] I can so easily hide behind him. And so for me, it just went back and forth. And after the Applebee's thing, I feel like I was so loud about disliking him that I could not back down. I already knew people didn't have much respect for me.

[00:58:16] And I really knew if I made it to FTC, that if I had worked with Q ever, then people would say, oh, you're a flip flopper. You just did whatever you said you hated Q. And now here you are sitting next to him or whatever.

[00:58:27] And so that was something that I would tell people like I literally can't work with Q. It doesn't matter how I feel about him. I can't work with him because I will get no respect because I've been so vocal.

[00:58:39] Liz, I'm really looking forward to chatting more in the future. If you're up for that, I think it would be very interesting to hear more about your game and everything that you have going on. I have some bad news, Liz. My local Applebee's just closed.

[00:58:54] Gone. I mean, if only they would do what the heck you hold. We could what the heck? Homebags. That makes me so sad. I'm so sorry for your loss. Yes, OK. Well, anyway, Liz, congratulations on the great run this season

[00:59:08] and best of luck with everything else you're doing. OK? Thank you so much. Take care, Liz. Bye. All right, everybody. There you have it. Once again, rumored billionaire, but you can't believe the rumors all the time. Liz Wilcox and what an interesting creative choice

[00:59:28] from survivor to have Liz go out there and have this story she was telling people. You don't think it's a story she's telling us now after the fact. But I think it seems like this kind of makes sense

[00:59:45] that she would have this story that she was telling out there on the island. But survivor hit that from us. It would almost be like if one of these people that was lying and saying that they had a different job that wasn't a lawyer.

[01:00:01] And then just all season long, we never knew that they were actually a lawyer that we find out after the season. Yeah, well, actually, like I'm not I'm not the gym teacher that I said I was. I'm actually a lawyer. We'd be like, what?

[01:00:14] So I don't know why they decided to tell the story this way. I think it makes Liz much more interesting. Did they think that maybe Liz would be less sympathetic if I don't know, but she would be more sympathetic.

[01:00:27] It doesn't make any sense. Make it make sense, survivor. What the heck, you whole bags? Anyway, looking forward to talking more with Liz in the future. And then we've got one more big interview. Let's bring in my conversation with Maria. Hey, Maria, how are you?

[01:00:47] Rob Cesternino and really looking forward to chatting today because I feel like that you're at the center of just about everything from the finale. First off, congratulations on a really stellar game, especially three immunity wins in a 26 day game. Very impressive feet. How are you feeling overall?

[01:01:09] I'm feeling really good. I'm feeling super proud of myself. It's been a really awesome journey to watch with my family, my boys. And yeah, I'm feeling really good. OK, I want to start off with something from the final five challenge.

[01:01:24] And I would love to just get your take here. And as somebody who has studied the show, that was very unusual what happened in that final five challenge where ultimately they got you out of the game

[01:01:36] where Kenzie and Liz work together to beat you in the puzzle challenge. And I know from social media there was a lot of discussion about this. I would love to just get your take about that. And because I feel like it's maybe a slippery slope now

[01:01:51] if people can work together to beat somebody who's a big threat in the challenges. Yeah, I've lost many nights sleep thinking about this. And obviously it felt incredibly unfair in the moment. But just like people say, it's a badge of honor to be blindsided taken out that way.

[01:02:12] It hurt. It hurt. It hurt really, really badly. But what an honor to feel like it takes two of them to take me down at 47. Now 48, but at 47 years old, I had them shaking in their boots.

[01:02:26] You know, like they had to team up on me to take me out. So yeah, I mean, it's like I said, I've woken up many nights thinking what could happen? Because should this have happened? Like, you know, what could I've done differently?

[01:02:37] Yeah. OK, I want to go back to OK. So obviously we have a lot of discussion today about your decision at the final Tribal Council. Can you talk a little bit about so you went out of the game not knowing that Charlie was plotting against you, correct?

[01:02:56] But then by the final Tribal Council, you did know about this. Can you talk a little bit about how you came to know and what you learned about Charlie? Yeah, I actually at that tribal, I didn't realize Charlie was coming for me.

[01:03:11] I think, you know, he told me after the game, which he should have been like that's what true competitors do. You write together if you can and you come for each other at the end. My vote at that final Tribal, it started at fire making.

[01:03:26] So I left at the final five and I told Charlie, I was like, you got my vote, right? Like I respected his game. His game was my game. Like we played this game together and we played it really well. But when I saw Kenzie make fire,

[01:03:40] Kenzie had a look in her eyes that I have felt and I have had in my eyes many times in my life. And it triggered something in me like she's a badass, you know, she just did this and then we come to the final Tribal Council

[01:03:55] and it came down to Q's question to me of what are you going to do with that money? And I as a mother, many times have given up so much of myself for other people, for my children, for my family

[01:04:09] and coming on the show, this was for me. I took this leap for me with my family's love, with my family support. But this was the one time in my life I said, I'm going to be selfish.

[01:04:19] And when those words came out of her mouth, I'm like, crap, here we go. Like I am going to vote with my heart. This woman is about to get married. She wants to start a family and I'm going to give her this money.

[01:04:32] And I walked up those steps and I said, Charlie, Kenzie, Charlie, Kenzie, Charlie, Kenzie, what am I going to do? And my heart won. My heart won. Yeah. And you talked about that in the reunion show last night.

[01:04:46] And Kenzie is a great winner of the show for sure. Was there anything that Charlie could have done to have won your vote? I don't know. You know, the thing is, is that I don't ever want to go back

[01:04:59] and say I should have done this. I should have done that. I think it was evident in the pizza reward that my mind won over. And I chose Q because my mind said choose Q when my heart said choose Liz. Yeah. Right.

[01:05:14] And you can see how horrible that situation was when I went in there fully expecting to choose Liz because I wanted from my heart to choose Liz. And I went with my mind, you know, it is really hard to separate your head from your heart.

[01:05:31] I don't know if there's anything Charlie could have done differently. It's not about why Charlie lost for me. It's why why Kenzie won. It's what Kenzie did to push me over the edge. Can you talk a little bit about your relationship with Q?

[01:05:43] Because I thought it was so interesting that you two ended up coming together. You seem to be the only person in the game that really understood Q and was able to have like a functioning, working relationship with him. Why do you think that was?

[01:06:00] I think it started at the Tim vote. When Tim got voted out, I came back from our tribal fully expecting it to be Ben because we had a six. We were embarking on this. Right. And we never saw your reaction to that really.

[01:06:15] I know there's so much to talk about. I don't know how much time we have, but not a lot today. The when I came back and I looked at him, I heard Ben's voice. I looked at him and he said it had to be Tim.

[01:06:28] I was like, OK. And we can get into if there's time, the secret scene. Ben and I in why there was that distrust there. But once Q looked at me and said that, I'm like, there's something here. And it was just a look.

[01:06:42] It was a look that he gave me. Then comes Tiffany gunning for me after I won the pyramid in the water. And he tells me my number one, the one I feel most responsible for is coming for you.

[01:06:54] And so the fact that he was willing to do that, I was like, this guy is super loyal. Like I I want to play the game with loyal people. We'll go loyal to each other as long as we can. And I saw that part of him.

[01:07:06] He has a huge heart and people have an incredible amount of narrow minded hate for him that I'm like, this guy is actually a really loyal guy. So the Sega Idol, ultimately, I think was a huge part of this season

[01:07:23] and Gem created chaos and ultimately that the chaos was felt throughout the season. Could you just talk about sort of like the long term ramifications of the missing Sega Idol? Yes, so I adore Gem and she made us dig and looking back on it.

[01:07:42] And once she told us that it was her that had it, it was really hilarious. But what I want to bring up about that day is that day everything was chaotic. Gem's whole personality changed that day and we were like, what's going on with Gem?

[01:07:57] But that day, Charlie and I found an envelope stuffed in a tree. It was a journey envelope. The only other person that claimed to have a journey envelope was Ben. I had one and it was still in my bag.

[01:08:08] And so suddenly there was this, I know this is Ben or Tim's if Tim got an envelope because he went on a journey too. Why is that there? And then there was a constant back of forth of Tim and Ben

[01:08:19] putting things in their pockets, putting them in their bags. And so there was this, this just distrust that had started to we could see it with our eyes. We were like, something's happening. But right now, Gem feels like we've got to take care of this.

[01:08:35] Ben and Tim can be shields for us a little bit more as we get into the merge. And so, you know, that scene with Ben of when he comes to me and talks to me and why, you know, can we work together?

[01:08:47] I'm like, number one, you haven't wanted to talk strategy for the first two weeks of this game with me. You want to brotherly love and hang out and rock and shred and whatever. I want to talk strategy. I want to play this game, you know?

[01:08:58] Then excuse me, then you do the shady thing with the envelope. And now you want to come to me when Tim is gone. And so it just felt like so much of the game had passed. The game had been going before he was ready to start playing it.

[01:09:13] And so it was just hard for me to go back. When I was that a mistake, probably you should never close a door on anything. But, you know, without giving context to everything that happened before that scene. Yeah, it looks super crappy. Yeah, but that's OK.

[01:09:31] After the challenge was over at the final five, you go back and we see a little bit of you hunting for an idol. I was really thinking, OK, this is Maria's way out. She's going to find the idol here. How long did you search for the idol?

[01:09:45] All all after. Yeah, all after. And excuse me. And, you know, obviously nobody knew that you had one. I knew he had one and I thought maybe they'll put it back. Yeah. And honestly, like it would have been epic. I would have kept going as if I'm out.

[01:10:02] I'm out. I'm out. Sorry. You guys got me. And then, you know, with that idol out. Do you think there was one out there? Because I feel like the precedent is that they would rehide the idol.

[01:10:11] But you must not have even been close because they didn't even show us like you missing it. I honestly was hoping there was going to be a moment on TV where they showed me right next to the idol because then I would have been like,

[01:10:23] yeah, but I don't know. I don't know. That's what happened to Lauren last year. But no, we didn't even get that. Yeah. Yeah. OK. And Maria, you talked so much about what it was going to mean for your family to get to see you play this game,

[01:10:35] especially in your exit from the game, what it was going to mean for your boys to watch their mom on TV. Could you tell us a little bit about their reaction to all of this? Yeah, it's been so much fun to watch with them and with my husband.

[01:10:49] They didn't know anything about how the game went for me. And so getting to see their excitement, getting to see their shock, you know, holding them when they cry, you know, like, it's been such an awesome experience. And like I said, when I left,

[01:11:01] to me, it was the most important of how you lose. It's how you lose the game that I wanted to convey to them. Yeah. How were the letters when you finally got them? Amazing. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. OK. Well, Maria, thank you for being so gracious

[01:11:16] and answering all these questions. I'm sure that some of the stuff is not super fun to talk about. So I really appreciate you making some time to talk about. We'd love to talk more about your game at some point in the future. Yes. Thank you so much.

[01:11:29] I appreciate it. OK. All the best to you, Maria, outside the show. OK? Yeah. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye. All right, everybody, there you have it. There is Maria. And of course, Maria had a lot of questions today about the vote for Kenzie over Charlie.

[01:11:48] A little bit of a different answer between what Charlie said and what Maria said. Charlie said back in his exit interview that he said that. And again, he wasn't there, but he seemed to imply that Tiffany was really trying to explain to Maria

[01:12:07] that Charlie had been talking about voting on Maria. Maria says here that she did not know that Charlie was gunning for her until the final tribal council. So definitely some wires crossed between the two exit interviews here today. I really do mean that.

[01:12:21] I appreciate Maria coming on and talking about this stuff because, I mean, it's not contractual. If somebody said like, hey, I don't feel like doing any exit press. I don't want to talk about this. Like, I really don't think the survivor has much leverage to say, like,

[01:12:36] oh, well, you have to. I really feel like that it's an optional thing that's up to the players. So I'm always appreciative when players make the time to talk to me and especially, you know, spend all this time the day after a long night

[01:12:52] like the finale. So I appreciate again, Maria coming on to talk with us. We are not done here today on Thursday. We have my interview with Omersahir. We'll be talking about it live 3 p.m. Eastern, so we'll be answering a ton of your questions about the finale.

[01:13:07] Survivor 40 several and much more. So make sure you're subscribed to Robb is a podcast, both on YouTube and on our podcast feed at Robb is a website.com slash subscribe. It's been such a fun season that I have had the privilege to get to cover

[01:13:22] and talk about here with you. Thank you all so much for coming back year after year to listen to me talk about this crazy little show called Survivor. I really appreciate you and thanks so much. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye.