Shauhin Davari Post-Season Interview | Survivor 48

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[00:00:30] Hi everybody and welcome to Rob has a Podcast as we are kicking off our Survivor 48 post-season interviews. My name is Mike Bloom. I am stepping in, of course, for the one, the only Rob Cesternino.

[00:00:53] If you are somehow living between a rock and a hard stone, you may not know it, but Rob is actually away for the next little while. He is making his grand return to reality TV as our beloved podcaster in chief. The R in R H A P is in Scotland filming the Traitors season four. But the Survivor wheel is still turning.

[00:01:20] And so I am filling in for Rob to talk with some of the players from Survivor 48 about their respective experiences in Fiji. Now, of course, we also have the element of the fact that three players from Survivor 48 are also off on their own adventure right now. Filming Survivor 50 in the form of our season winner, Kyle, our third place finisher, Joe, and our fourth place finisher, Camilla.

[00:01:45] But suffice it to say, given the cast of Survivor 48, there are still plenty of people to talk with. And I started off with a big one. Shaheen Daivari is who you're going to be hearing from today. Our sixth place finisher. He of the in-house soundtrack. He of the pooping in pancakes. Icarus has flown into the studio himself to talk with me all about his time on Survivor 48. Really happy with that conversation with Shaheen.

[00:02:14] Of course, he and I have had a conversation almost two years in the making, considering that we chatted out when he was the alternate for Survivor 46. Talk with him during the preseason for Survivor 48. Shortly after, he was voted out in Survivor 48. And now we get a little bit more of a wide scope as to all the time Shaheen spent in the game. And knowing his background, you're in for a truly academic podcast in so many great ways.

[00:02:42] And we even have a special guest who shows up towards the end. But before we get into all of that, just as a bit of a precursor, because we might have people coming into this entire postseason interview process for the first time. We are able to work with the powers that be at CBS on these exclusive interviews. But as such, we are only able to talk to the contestants for one hour.

[00:03:09] It is, of course, quite the happy hour when I get the chance to talk with Shaheen. But if you're wondering why there might be certain parts of, you know, the season that we don't get into in huge detail or, you know, if we are trying to work around things in a specific time frame. That is why, of course, Shaheen has done plenty of exit press to help supplement some of this stuff as well. So be sure to check all that out if you did not in the moment. And of course, we are just getting started with the entire postseason process.

[00:03:37] As I have at least a couple more of these postseason interviews up my sleeves when it comes to Survivor 48. So make sure you don't miss out on a second of it. We've got plenty of stuff happening in terms of Survivor every Wednesday. I'm counting down the top 25 moments in Survivor history as voted on by you, the fans with an alumni panel. We have Brandon Donlan doing the Survivor 50 files, which is a daily podcast series where he talks with someone who played with one of the players on Survivor 50.

[00:04:07] And plenty of stuff in between. So we know Survivor dot com is where you need to go to make sure you're subscribed to not miss out on any of the podcast or videos that we have going on right now. Yes, Survivor might technically be in its offseason, but look, it's heating up outside and certainly heating up as well here on the mic. So I've laid out everything that you need to know. I've talked for long enough without further ado.

[00:04:35] Here's my postseason interview with Shaheen. Give out a nice shaka haka who for Shaheen Daivari. Yes. Hello. Hello, my friends. Just for the fans at home. I want to make sure that you're watching on video and you see that I have put the things that belong in a museum front and center at the very top of the show. My leg show has started. There we go. I mean, Shaheen, we're going to talk about the top half and the bottom half of your game. But, you know, at the time we're talking, it's been a few weeks since the season wrap.

[00:05:03] Have you proceeded further with your leg career since we last spoke? You know what? I've written a song or two about my legs and we'll see. We'll see when I want to put that out. Timing is everything. OK, there we go. Listen, you've got some musically inclined people on the cast. I can see some collabs in the future. Yeah, no kidding. A little texty text to Thomas Crodinger and Sony Music. There we go.

[00:05:26] Well, speaking of Thomas, I mean, it only makes sense that we get into your eventful game from the beginning of said events. And look, Loggie 1.0 doesn't go to tribal council at all. And so I'm. We never would have. We never would have gone to tribal council. We were a perfectly balanced tribe. We had puzzle people. We had people that were very, very strong. Eva and Joe just incredibly strong. We had people that couldn't make a basket to save their life. They did figure it out.

[00:05:54] But we definitely were a tribe that I don't think sees tribal council for a really long time. I would say we are the best tribe of the new era as far as team tribe, like competition style stuff. I don't think there's a tribe. I certainly don't think there's two tribes that are going to beat us. But yeah, I think I think that we're a tough tribe to be. And I think Siva is, too. I think Siva is a really tough tribe to be, too. I think that you put those six people against any six in the new era and they have a really tough time beating us.

[00:06:24] Well, let's talk about that camaraderie, perhaps, and whether that translated to the beach, because we'll get something that obviously translates to new Vula, which is the entire, you know, California girls dynamic. And we saw at different points how close you were to Joe, but also how close you were to Thomas. So just give us a little bit of a slice of your first week in the game in terms of did you have a true number one of your number ones? I didn't really care about a number one.

[00:06:51] I cared about putting myself in a good position overall. I didn't go out there for like, oh, let me find a number one and make it a ride or die and whatever. I was presented with two great options in Thomas and Joe. And in that, I also knew that they had very close allies, right? That Thomas had Eva and, or excuse me, Joe had Eva and Thomas had Bianca. And it was, you know, I thought that Thomas and I were number ones.

[00:07:21] But when Eva gives Joe the bracelet during the bonfire scene, I made this for you. And I'm sitting there like, oh, what the, the trick, if you, if you're going to go play survivor, the trick for who your number one is, the trick to find out is your number one, your number one. Who do they look at when they laugh? Who do they look at? Who's the first person they look at when they throw their head back to laugh?

[00:07:50] And they look at somebody. If you're at a party, next time you're at a party, pay attention. When someone says something funny and the heads go back and the first person they look at and they lock eyes, that's their number one. That's their internals telling you who their number one is. And so Eva gives the bracelet to Joe. I made it for you. And Joe's heart, I made this for your daughter. Oh gosh. Okay, great. So Joe is now gone, right? That's exactly the way to get to Joe's heart.

[00:08:19] And then I see the dirty look. Dirty looks are also a clue as to who the number one is, right? Because my, you can go back and look at the clip. My dirty look is just like, we need to get her gone right now. But when I gave that look, Bianca and Thomas were already looking at each other. So to me, I go, okay, cool. Clock. Bianca and Thomas are number ones, which wasn't a complete surprise. Joe and Eva are number ones.

[00:08:44] I'm sitting in the middle of that because I'm very close with Joe and very close with Thomas. I like Eva. I'm working with Eva, kinda. I like Bianca a lot. I'm working with Bianca. And so I thought I was in a pretty good position in Loggie 1.0. Well, it was no laughing matter, no matter which way you look at it when we get to Nuvula and you face your first tribal council here.

[00:09:08] So let's set the scene a little bit because Kyle and Camilla will obviously in many ways play a very vital role in your game. Shaheen. Talk to me about the role you played with the two of them because something that you certainly expressed in your exit press with both myself and Rob is the fact that you were working alongside them in the post-merge as well. Yeah. I mean, I don't think this should be that much of a surprise when you see me come back from tribal council where I got blindsided by Kyle playing an idol.

[00:09:37] And the first thing I say is I smack him on the chest and I say, good game. I'm open. Like, let's work together. You two are clearly good at the game. Let's work together. I think I'm going to be good at the game. Like, this is going to be a great thing going forward. You have to move on in Survivor and you have to be resilient. You have to adapt. Is it ideal that one of my close allies, my number one in the game, the person that I wanted to work with the most, goes home? No, it's not ideal. But whatever. Okay, cool.

[00:10:04] I have a new ally, a new opportunity here and I'm going to take it. Not only do I say that, but then we follow up later with me, Camilla and Kyle on the beach on Vula going, this could run, this foursome could run the game. You see me say, we are the four. And in my mind, we were the four. We were the four that were going to be working together.

[00:10:31] And so the idea and the narrative that Kyle and Camilla were this secret duo wasn't a secret for me because I didn't care if they were working together. Right? Or working with me. Or at least I think they're working with me. Right? I know that obviously they had plans to get me out throughout the game. I had plans to get them out throughout the game too. But the proof is in the pudding. They had a clear shot at me with Cedric.

[00:10:59] David's relationship with me in one day was huge. Like that certainly was a huge part of my gameplay. But Joe actually doesn't get a lot of credit and Eva doesn't get a lot of credit for making David and Mary want to work with me in that moment. Right? That, you know, Kyle and Camilla, to refresh, Kyle and Camilla go to David and Mary and say, hey, we think he might have an idol. And David's kind of like, who cares?

[00:11:28] I'm not voting him out because of Joe and Eva. I don't think that was a full sell. I think that if Kyle and Camilla really pushed to get me out right then, they could have. Okay. David and Mary, like, nah, whatever. Fine. Go for it. What doesn't make sense to me, to be honest, is I have a bunch of relationships back on that beach. Right? And I know we're skipping forward a little bit, but whatever. This is the split tribal. I have a bunch of relationships back on the other side.

[00:11:56] I'm basically on an island by myself. And there's four Siva that are going to make the decision, Cedric and I. Cedric's a free vote. He has no relationships back on the other beach. He has no, like, nothing to offer. He's not a huge challenge threat, obviously. And so why keep me over someone like Cedric? And it's also not like the thought of Cedric was that he was, like, a chaos agent or anything like that.

[00:12:25] I mean, he certainly was with his voting record. He was. But it's the thought about him wasn't that he was chaotic. That wasn't the narrative surrounding him, even though he might have actually been chaos. So what do I do in that moment? Number one, I rely on my relationships that I formed.

[00:12:44] And I think the Survivor fans at home can't know what it feels like to have 36 hours that feels like a year of development of friendship.

[00:12:59] And they can't know what it feels like to talk about things with these people that when you remove this thing, this phone, when you remove the Internet, when you remove all of the noise and you just sit on a log and your butt is uncomfortable and everything sucks because it's windy at night and you don't get to sleep. And the shelter falls on you and you're telling stories and you're making each other laugh and you create this bond. And it's hard to just be like, oh, yeah, but Shaheen's a bigger threat than Cedric.

[00:13:28] So we're going to vote out Shaheen in this vote. I created a real bond with Camilla and Kyle and even with David very, very quickly on day one when we finally met on the Merge Beach, day one, two, three-ish. And that saved my gameplay in addition to not running around like Caleb. I had Caleb in my mind a lot out there because I think that we have similar-ish vibes.

[00:13:57] We're not the same by any stretch of the imagination, right? But like I do come across as like the super friendly guy, the super smiley guy. You see all of 46 being like, I'm skeptical of that dude. I was going to say you were both stars of your respective Ponderosas. Right. And so knowing that, going in there, I had that in my mind, especially at this strip split tribal council time because that's where he went home. And so I decided I'm not going to do anything.

[00:14:27] I'm just going to sit here and paint this tree. And so Kyle, Camilla, David, Mary, and Cedric can't point at me and say, look at all, he's doing all this stuff. We got to get rid of him. He's a threat. We got to get rid of him. He's trying to make this. He's panicked. Nope. I'm going to paint a tree. And if you know me, you know how hard that is. I always want to do more. Like Icarus was a big thing for me.

[00:14:56] Icarus time is the episode that I went home. And Icarus is a big thing for me, flying too close to the sun, doing a little too much, being a little too much, having too much, having been too much. That's such a huge thing for me in losing that it's because I want it so bad that it ends up getting taken away from me. And in that moment, I was, I mean, I was super proud of myself for surviving that tribal council because I didn't do too much. I did exactly the thing that I was supposed to do in order to survive a vote against Cedric.

[00:15:24] But briefly blipping back to new Vula, because you talk about it again, really locking in with Camilla and Kyle and Joe. This was your four. I am curious if new Vula continues to go the way of old Vula and you went to tribal council again in the pre-merge. Do you have a sense you would just tie it up, deadlock it all? Yeah. Lock it up. We're going to rocks. I'm not, I'm not flipping on Joe. It's not happening. By that point, Joe and I felt like brothers.

[00:15:50] It's actually one of the things that like, you know, I don't have complaints about the edit, but I do think that it would have been cool. Like if we had more time, you know, they only have so much time would have been cool to see my and Joe's relationship a lot more because we were really tight. And in a lot of ways, respect be to the, to the Joe and Eva connection. Joe and I were much closer than Eva and Joe because number one, we spent every day together out there except for the five hour split tribal council. Eva and Joe had four days, five days away from each other when we were on new Vula. Right.

[00:16:21] And on top of that, Joe and I are closer in age. We have a lot of common interests where we were going through a lot of the same things in our interpersonal relationships, in our home lives, in our relationships like that we have with our friends and our family about this whole thing. And in the way that we lead our community, Joe's obviously a fire captain and leader. And I coach a speech and debate team and run like, you know, a very, very vibrant team. And both of us are, both of us have a lot in common in that way.

[00:16:48] Both of us were high level athletes, him much, much, much, much higher than me. But at the same time, like that created a really deep bond. We talked about things that I haven't talked to my best friends, my brother, my, my, my family members about and him the same with me. Um, and so, yeah, I don't think that I am flipping on Joe to go vote with Kyle and Camilla to then just go to the merge and basically get rocked by them saying I did that.

[00:17:16] And that's, that is one of the things that, you know, the bag search. Why did I search the bag in front of Camilla? And I see this a lot online. And actually, if you want to be a better survivor watcher, there is one trick that I learned while I was watching in preparation. Okay. Stop asking, why do we, why did they do that? And assuming stupidity, start giving reasons, smart reasons, intelligent reasons for why the person would do something that looks so stupid.

[00:17:46] It looks stupid for me to search the bag in front of Camilla. I get that. But it is a risk. I know that Camilla and Kyle might be working together, right? I understand. But if I know that we're going to vote Kyle and I want Camilla to work with us in the future, I want her to see I'm willing to do anything for my alliance and look at how much I trust you. I'm willing to search the bag in front of you. Does that make sense?

[00:18:15] Like, yeah, it makes a little bit more sense. You can still think that's a dumb idea, but at least when you start answering the question, you're going to come up with better strategy in the future as someone who wants to play the game in the future. No, I mean, it's interesting to sort of put yourself in the shoes of these players asking, you know, what would I do in this situation? But more so like the the face kind of determined and you're like, OK, why would I do this type of thing if I was the player? Exactly. I think that's that was the shift that happened for me when I was put as the alternate. Right.

[00:18:44] I started watching the show in like even a slightly more analytical way about there's a lot. There's a lot of wise around season 46 is gameplay for many reasons. Totally. And when you start answering it instead of asking it, you become a better viewer, a more analytical mind when it comes to the game. And you become a better player, too, when you get out.

[00:19:08] So from that note of the bag surge, I'm curious because you had talked in your exit press about the fact that you and Kyle were really close. You know, you had bonded over your various relationships with your brothers. We're certainly talking about how that may be factors into your jury vote. Were you aware, though, how much Kyle seemingly in confessionals seemed to be holding over your head? Like, no, he's a liar. I never forgave him for the bag surge. Didn't know. Did not realize any of that. I did not think Kyle was coming for me for that long. I did not.

[00:19:37] That is absolutely a blind side from the edit, for sure, for me. Like, I didn't know until I saw it in the edit, if that makes sense. Not like it didn't happen. It was just edited together. So you talked about this a little bit in, you know, the various TikToks that you've come out with since the show about how you and Eva and Joe had sort of done this like divide and conquer strategy with the amassing of this majority alliance. Right. We're like they were taking care of the David and Mary side of things. You were talking about the Camilla and Kyle side of things.

[00:20:03] Was that purposeful on your part or was it just due to relationships? The cards felt what they did. Yeah. Relationships, really. Like, you know, they had the relationship with Eva, had the relationship with David. Right. That she went and found Joe, you know, 1.5 or whatever you want to call it with giant muscles, just like another guy who drinks a gallon of milk a day. And and then Mary came along with with David. And I think Eva and Mary's relationship also got kind of torched by the edit.

[00:20:32] You don't really see why it is that. But what's it called? Like, why is it that Eva has a sit down with Mary and tells her, like, I'm not going to give you my idol? Like, why? Right. You wouldn't have to do that unless there was a relationship there that kind of went by the wayside because you only have so much time. And so, yeah, they managed that. I was, you know, closer to Kyle and Camilla. But Camilla and my relationship was also like kind of another secret alliance. Yeah.

[00:20:58] It was another one of those like in passing, quick conversations were the two, you know, brown people out there. And so, like, you don't want to be seen together too much. There's like a definitely like a, you know, David sees it for five seconds and is like, they're working together. And the reason I picked Camilla in the 10 person, like when you have to pick a partner or whatever, I picked Camilla because A, no one was picking anybody. And it was starting to get annoying. It's like, let's just do this.

[00:21:26] B, I knew that no one was going to be like, no feathers were going to be ruffled by me picking Camilla. It's not like people are going to be like, oh, you pick Joe, like you're a dickhead. We're not going to do that. And then you don't know what the puzzle is going to be. Like, you don't know what's coming. It's going to be something that's crawl based, which is what we had. Camilla's tiny. She's itty bitty human compared to everybody else. And I kind of picked the right person. I just sucked at the challenge. I was the one that was bad at it.

[00:21:55] And it would have been a genius decision because that puzzle would have been Camilla's bitch. Camilla would have crushed that puzzle. Like, it would have been super easy to get up those stairs. And then to get Camilla across the ropes, like we win. And then, yeah, I don't know. I mean, those legs come in handy with get a grip. I had a strategy for get a grip. I think I would have done okay. I don't know if I would have beat Eva. She has like a different level of strength. But who knows? Who knows? So I want to talk a bit more about the Split Tribal Council.

[00:22:23] You got into a lot of, you know, what happened within your configuration. But before that, we get this series of scenes where you have seemingly the three biggest outsiders of this new tribe. In Say and Mitch and Cedric all approach you. And you have this conversation about like, yeah, listen, everything that has to get done has to go through me. How did that develop? Was that something organic? Did you purposely seek out these people that were on the OUTS to try to cultivate something? Yeah, a huge part of my game was Socratic consensus building.

[00:22:53] So that was like my idea going out there, which was I want to make sure as many of the people that can be in the know about the vote are in the know about the vote. And it needs to be something where I continue to just ask them questions, the Socratic style, right? And they come to the conclusion using the questions that I ask.

[00:23:18] And that was obviously only possible if you first build a relationship with someone. If you just run up to someone and start telling them what to do, they're going to give you soft agreement. They're going to, yeah, sure. Bye. And then they're going to go talk to somebody else. So you can't have soft agreement out there. And I know that I am guilty of getting soft agreement in my regular life. So I don't want that.

[00:23:43] And so instead, build the relationship, ask them questions, get them to come to the same conclusion that you kind of already wanted, and then kind of stop the conversation there. A lot of my game had to do with bringing up every option possible, including myself, bringing up myself as a possible option for them to vote out, and then kind of explaining why that would be a bad idea. I don't think this is like a unique thing in Survivor. I think this is probably pretty common. Like, let's just run through everybody. There's only so many options, right? It's not chess.

[00:24:12] It's like you're running through six options or eight options or nine options. So just run through them all. So for me, when it comes to something like say, somebody like say, someone who I know is on the outs, someone who I know is on the bottom, okay, I'm going to go talk to them and see if I can broker at least a line of communication so that if they want to save me, they know that they can come to me without me blowing up their game or they know that they can try and trust me or whatever. Does that make sense? Yeah.

[00:24:41] I'm curious. Let's say we did not do this split tribal council. Do you get a feeling that the die had kind of already been cast in the favor of a person like a say or a Cedric? Or, you know, as we get into sort of the consensus building of the post merge, would you have tried to steer things in a different direction? I wanted to work with say, I absolutely wanted to route that confessional where I say like, I want to work with her is dead on because I think that my game and her game complement each other pretty well.

[00:25:11] In that, you know, you see say, you see say out loud during the split tribal that if they're smart, they'd go for Shaheen. Right. Right? She's not wrong in that statement in a way. And she is pointing at the biggest threat that was that that was in her mind. She just didn't have the social chops out there to make everything that she wanted to happen happen.

[00:25:40] And so with her strategic mind of like, no, this is the person that we should be getting rid of right now. My social game, I think we would have been a really good pair. And then if if her and I are sitting next to each other at the end, like I think that'd be fireworks and fun. And and I think I would mop the floor with her. Well, so as as we move forward here, I want to ask a couple of general questions before we get into specifics.

[00:26:03] We talked obviously about your, you know, day one to I suppose day, you know, 23 or 24 relationship with Joe. Where does Eva come into the picture? Did it change from giving that side eye from those early days towards the end? Kyle Kyle's best move in the game wasn't just getting me out. It was getting in with Eva. That was the thing that and you see it, you see it in the game when Kyle, when when, you know, Joe says, do we trust Kyle more or Shaheen?

[00:26:33] And Eva instinct was Kyle. OK, well, that's that's kind of all she wrote for my game in that moment is Kyle got in better with Eva. Kyle and Eva had a better bond. And that's kind of that. We don't really see that bond develop, but it certainly was pretty strong out there. I thought that I was good.

[00:26:57] I thought that, like, you know, I don't know if we want to skip ahead that far, but I thought that I had done enough to kind of repair the problems that Joe and I had had that day. And so going into tribal, I felt moderately confident, but never fully confident. I knew that I was I knew that, like, I was in danger at some point soon. And so I thought that I had kind of skated by one more time and just didn't because Kyle had a better relationship with Eva than I did. And and a number of other factors.

[00:27:27] Right. A number of other factors. So this post merge is really going to be defined kind of by this core group with yourself included in it, building consensus. Oftentimes that it's not necessarily about, oh, is someone going to flip? It's more so, OK, which of the outsiders are we going to take care of? And I would imagine, despite how much this might be perceived as a steamroll, there is some finesse to that. Talk to me a bit about some of those tactics you used. Yeah, sure. So let's back up real quick.

[00:27:55] Like from my perspective, when you're in the majority alliance, it is the responsibility of the minority alliance to come to you with a plan that makes sense for you to flip. It doesn't make sense for you in a majority position, especially if you're in a majority position where you think you can beat the people that are with you. It doesn't make sense for you to make a move to take out someone that's in your alliance, weaken your position and strengthen other people's position against you because you've made the big move.

[00:28:25] And now you're the easiest target. Doesn't make sense. So there's two parts of this. The minority alliance couldn't really get together to come with a plan and say the only vote we need is yours. Right. We've organized it. We just need you to flip. That never happened in the game to me. Right. OK, so that should start the conversation just from an understanding of like when you're in the game, that's what's going on in your brain.

[00:28:54] Now let's back up and we can run through the votes and I'll try and run through them quickly. The Cedric vote, I just got to survive. Right. And so my game made. Yeah. Yeah. The Chrissy vote, I actually helped flip that vote. I came back from a walk and everyone's sitting there and I find out we've changed the vote from Chrissy to Camilla. Well, that doesn't work for me. I've talked to Chrissy like for five minutes and it wasn't the best conversation that I'd ever had. I know that she's trying to come for Joe.

[00:29:22] I know that my name's in her mouth as well because Eva told me that she had talked about me during the split tribal council. And now we want to keep her over someone that I think will be willing to work with me. And so I run around and start switching the vote. And the order by which you do things out there really does matter. So I went to Joe and Eva first because those are my alliance members. Kyle and I were in agreement on this. We knew that we wanted to go this way.

[00:29:47] And so I left David for last and then I stalled him out until they called on ice. I just had a conversation. You filibustered David basically. Exactly right. I knew that he was an arguer. Like he likes to go back and forth and jab. And so I pulled him over to the log and he and I just argued about why it should be Camilla or why it should be Chrissy. With the knowledge that we had changed it back to Chrissy before the conversation started. Hmm.

[00:30:14] And so filibustering him until they call it okay it's over. Now the next time you get to talk is at tribal. And then the trap is set for Chrissy to step in. And Chrissy steps in the trap of going after the big guys alliance and that's it. That's all she wrote. Had Chrissy gone in and like tried to blow it up and be like no no no I don't I'm not I love the big guys. I want to go for that guy. Maybe maybe things would have been different. Who knows. Okay. So we organize the Chrissy vote. Yeah.

[00:30:42] Then we get to David which is a blindside. Right. And the reason that blindside happens is because he tried to get me to fake vote for Camilla in that tribal. The one that he went home in or the Chrissy one? He goes home. Okay. They pitched the idea to me and Eva let it Eva told me hey they want you to vote for Camilla but Camilla is not going to go home. We're going to vote for somebody else instead. But we just want you to prove your loyalty.

[00:31:11] And that was what set me off on a rampage against David three days. That's when I learned that. Does that make sense? Gotcha. Gotcha. That's the whole Boston Rob bus throwing happens. Right. It's and it's true. That's exactly the type of game that he was playing. He was playing an intimidation game that was very paranoid and didn't want people to have conversations. Kyle and I and him are in an alliance together and you see him freaking out that we're gone at the water well instead of stalling for us and letting our alliance members talk.

[00:31:40] That's not for me gameplay that has the freedom that allows me to want to play. Hmm. We set up David over a couple days. David goes home. Then we get to the consensus votes which is star and Mary. Right. Navigating those two votes you'll see me doing my Socratic consensus building with Joe when the votes about to be Mary.

[00:32:02] And then I start asking Joe a bunch of questions and leading him through why it should be star without giving him all of the reasons. Hmm. And I did that a couple times with a couple different people like look we really should have it be doesn't work. We really should have it be this person. That's not good gameplay because that elevates your threat level and makes people think you're in charge instead of now. Why should we do so and so? Why shouldn't we do so and so?

[00:32:32] Leading them through it so that they can kind of come to the real reasons themselves and maybe interjecting every once in a while with a sprinkle of why we should and why we shouldn't for both people. Hmm. I mean from that perspective I mean I guess let me throw a question your way then. Why did you want star out over Mary? Because star you know seemed like a former loggy from what she expressed to some of us in exit press. She had my name in her mouth. Simple as that. Okay. Yeah. She you know she bounds up to David and Mary while they're having a private conversation and is like Shaheen.

[00:33:02] It's got to be Shaheen. And it's like all right. Well that gets back to me eventually. I know that she has my name in her mouth. It's not a surprise to me. And and at the same time star and I had a conversation on the beach where she basically told me what she said which was I'm the brains of the operation. Well to me if you tell me that that means you're going to vote for me when you're on the jury and you're going to tell the jury that when you're on the jury.

[00:33:26] So I want star on the jury as early as possible if she thinks if her perception is I'm the brains and you also want to vote me out. Okay perfect. You're perfect for the jury over Mary. I'd rather have star there first. And then on top of that the little accoutrement if you will on top of that all is Mary didn't have her shot in the dark star did let's get rid of Mary.

[00:33:51] Let's get rid of star now and then the next vote we can get rid of Mary because she doesn't have her shot in the dark and that's the last day shot in the dark can even be played. Hmm yeah that all that all makes sense. Yeah. Okay so star goes home and then we have the Mary vote building consensus is a really important part of the game. I have an opportunity here to reverse the consensus and go for Joe. Mary wants to go for Joe. I absolutely think that I could have convinced Camilla and Mitch to vote for Joe.

[00:34:20] I think Kyle is unnecessary at that point. Right. It's unnecessary to have Kyle at that point. Because of it in four to three. Joe goes home. But then I do the calculus. Number one my relationship with Joe is very very strong. I really do love this man. I really do view him as a brother. If I'm going to betray that trust there better be a very good reason to do it. Okay. So what's the good reason? The good reason is it's going to be a million dollar move. Is it a million dollar move? No it's not.

[00:34:50] Because if you look at the people on the jury not the people at home that are watching that fall in love with Joe's pecs and his winning smile and his personality. But the people that are on the jury who are they voting for? Who is Cedric voting for? He saw what Mary went through on Vula. He saw her playing shot in the dark. He absolutely might not have had the best relationship with Mary but he certainly has a ton of respect for Mary. Right. So Cedric is probably leaning at least in my mind towards Mary versus Joe.

[00:35:17] David stood up at attention for Mary. Okay. So I don't need any more proof that David would have been voting for Mary if Mary makes it to the end. Right. With Joe and I. He's voting for Mary. Star and Mary's relationship was also kind of removed but Star and Mary were number ones out there. Oh. And you see that. They're talking to each other in the shelter and they're like, girl, you're my number one but I got to write your name down. And they were thick as thieves out there.

[00:35:45] So Star is another vote that I think is going to go for Mary. And then you have Chrissy. I think Chrissy is just going to go with what the group is going to say. And I'm not saying that she would have. That's just what my thought was when I was out there. Yeah. Her and David were close. I know that they got in an argument. But now they're at Ponderosa. They're going to be thick as thieves and they're going to kind of do what each other wants. Right. None of those people, Cedric, David, Mary, Chrissy, or Cedric, Mary, Cedric, Star, David, Chrissy.

[00:36:13] None of those people do I think are they going to vote for Joe over me? But I do think they might vote for Mary over me. I think that the perception is I'm the brains and you vote for the brains over the brawn in New Era Survivor. The like if Fishback and JT go out and play again, I think Fishback gets a lot more votes because that is more respected now than just the lovable guy with a big smile.

[00:36:40] Especially when you consider that lovable guy with the big smile, Joe, wasn't beloved by the jury members. They did not like him. They felt intimidated, shamed by him in some ways because he's an intimidating presence. He's brooding and big and he's emotional. And so that rubs people the wrong way, especially when he was saying integrity and honesty. And I never said that.

[00:37:10] Those words never came out of my mouth. You do not have roll the lack of clip about me not saying that. And so I think that sitting next to him, I can say, hey, I came here to play the game. I had no problem playing the game and I wanted to backstab you. And I don't apologize for any of it because that was my game. That's what I came here to do. And that that makes the Mary vote make more sense. Yeah. And as far as consensus building, look at Mitch. I tell Mitch, hey, let's vote Mary. Hey, let's vote star.

[00:37:39] And he does that stuff because he thinks we're going to make a move together later. I have the relationship with Mitch and you see star versus me for Mitch and Camilla. That's what our episode is, right? It's star trying to make the relationship with Mitch. But in the beginning of the episode, you see me recognize I got to go get to Mitch. I have to make sure he is with me.

[00:38:05] And so I go and get closer and closer and closer to Mitch laughing at his jokes. It helps that he's very funny. I'm making sure that he feels loved and heard and special and that his ideas are valid and that. OK, cool. At the end of the day, though, star is the right play for us. It was not the right play for anybody like except for me. I'm really curious because you're doing a lot of really great like jury calculus, assumingly in the moment as well.

[00:38:31] Was there a point in the game where you started to kind of look at those numbers on the bench and how tough was it for you to sort of balance that reality against sort of living in the moment and being like, oh, I'm also playing a whole ass game to hopefully get to day 26 as well. Yeah. Yeah, you touched on a little bit of a nerve because I do think that is what was really strong about my game in the early merge was I didn't think too much about the future.

[00:39:00] I got to start thinking about the future at the star vote. And then I played too many steps ahead. And I knew that was going to be a problem because really my focus once the star vote happens should have just been survival. Right. Not organizing more votes, not doing more. Just make sure I make it to the end. Right. Because you at that point felt that you pretty much had things locked up against anybody.

[00:39:28] By the star vote, I felt like it would have been very hard. They would have something massive would have had to happen. And then it did. And it was me going home. Right. And yeah, not seeing that clearly is because I was thinking about my final tribal council speech instead of thinking about how to survive this tribal. About how much of a threat I already was to other people and how I really should have treated Joe with a lot more care when he came back from talking to his sister.

[00:39:57] And then I really should have gone aggressively after Kyle in that vote if I was going to go after anybody and not Mitch in that moment. I just didn't see it accurately. And you're going to have bad reads out there. It's just the way that it goes. Yeah, I mean, it's just again, you're only seeing a certain perspective even if it's from 24 hours a day.

[00:40:18] Thank you.

[00:40:49] Thank you. Thank you. I'm curious because around the Mary vote is when we kind of get this first instance from our perspective of like Joe's paranoia, right? Where Mary just throws out this, this, this, this bomb of like, Joe, I think you're going to win the game. So I'm going to vote for you. And at least in this moment where like he even floats out to you. He's like, listen, I might vote for it. I could vote for you. And something that leads to quite, you know, the incredulous response from you in congressional. Talk to me about your reaction to that. Was this something that kind of came out of nowhere as it did to us?

[00:41:19] Yeah, it really does come out of nowhere for me in that moment because I've gone through it. I've been the other name already. And I just painted a tree as my gameplay, even though I wanted to go do all this. But Joe was telling me he was going to go tell Mitch he was going to vote for Mitch. And I was like, bro, if you do that, that makes two votes against you instead of one. He's like, you're so sure she doesn't have an idol. Yes, I'm sure she doesn't have an idol. And she didn't.

[00:41:50] And that pissed me off because it's one of those moments where you're not trusting your alliance member. And now you're creating a lot of chaos for you to go home and you don't even see it. And now I have to try and protect you. Why should I protect you versus just voting with Mary? Because Mitch is down to vote for you. Like he doesn't give a shit about Joe. He's down to vote for Joe right now, 100%. And that makes Joe and Mitch.

[00:42:18] And all it takes is me to go talk to Camilla. Camilla's down to vote Joe. She doesn't care. She would be ready. And so I saw the dominoes created there. The problem for me in that moment was it didn't piss me off enough to go vote against Joe. And Mary didn't go do the work to come to me to just have me be the last person to write the name. So if that's the case, that means I have to go do the legwork. If I go do the legwork. You're good at legwork, we hear.

[00:42:49] Yeah. Very good. Wow. Thanks, Mike. Thanks, buddy. Yeah. And so if I go do the legwork, now it's my move. If I make the big move at seven, I'm gone at six anyway. Right? If I'm the one who organized that, that's the big move against the big guy, Joe Hunter or whatever. And so I go home because I just go sit next to Joe.

[00:43:13] So that doesn't make sense for my gameplay to go organize it against Joe, even though I was a little mad at him. And yeah, I mean, that's why that vote kind of went the way that it is. Mary was a bigger threat to me, to my game than I thought Joe was. And yeah, it makes more sense to go for Mary there than to go organize the vote against Joe.

[00:43:36] If Mary had come to me instead of, you know, chopping coconuts, respect, Mary love you, but baby, you just chopped coconuts for the rest of the day. If she had gone to Camilla and gone to Mitch and been like, guys, Shaheen is down. All we need to do is corner him together and be like, dude, just fucking do this with us and sign your name and let it be done. Ooh, that would have been, that would have been spicy. That might have, that might have, that's possible. If the three of them come to me and they're like, do this with us, that would have been a move.

[00:44:07] Before we get into, you know, the demise of your game. I'm curious because you mentioned before the Kyle and Camilla seed that gets planted during the Cedric vote of like, oh, Shaheen has an idol. I know you said in your exit press that, you know, you knew perhaps because of a bit of a sus reputation, you have perhaps stayed in painted trees and didn't look for idols. Were you aware that you were being accused of having an idol and was that something you played up or against if you found that out on the island? Uh, I, was I aware?

[00:44:37] There are things that you're aware of that you don't care about out there, right? That, that this is what can get turned up by an edit or turned down by an edit in a way. Did, was I aware that people were going to be saying that I have an idol? Yeah, but they say that about everybody, right? That everybody, someone said Mary might have an idol. Like Joe was concerned Mary had an idol. There was no chance Mary had an idol, right? And, and so, but me, was I concerned about it?

[00:45:07] I just wasn't that concerned about it because I really depended on my relationships. I depended on Joe knowing that if I found an idol, I would have told him and I would have told him. I would have told Joe immediately if I found an idol. And, uh, I think that I avoided the journeys like the plague. I avoided looking and I thought that that also really helped me. It's not like there was three hours where I wasn't at camp. I was at camp all the time from jump. I was never, ever, ever willing to be alone.

[00:45:37] Much of my gameplay was making sure that I was around. The only time I really looked for idols was on Vula beach was when I was going and looking for tree mail and on Vula beach. Hmm. All right. On Vula beach was Kyle and I looking together because I didn't want him to find another idol. Well, let's get into this boot episode. And look, Shaheen, we have talked through many of the details through your various exit press. So I just want to hit a quick couple of things. Watching back the episode, what surprised you the most?

[00:46:07] Um, watching back the episode. I mean, the, first of all, the edit is crazy on this episode because they, they have, you know, Joe saying goodbye to his sister and not having that final conversation before she's gone. And then they edit it to show his final conversation with me and we don't get a follow up before I'm gone. Um, that's, that's a pretty wild edit.

[00:46:36] That is, that I haven't really seen talked about in that way. Like that's a pretty crazy, like bit of editing. So pretty amazing thing there. Um, what surprised me the most was probably how close I was to, to surviving. Hmm. But I think I, I probably could have, if I knew everything that was going on, I might've been able to navigate out of it.

[00:47:01] I think that in the heart of hearts, I probably go home there no matter what. I think that I'm probably going home there because I think Eva would have been willing to flip without Joe or maybe, maybe she would have, maybe she wouldn't have. I don't know. But I think it'd be tough for me to survive that vote in, in any event. Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what surprised me the most, Mike.

[00:47:27] I mean, we talked about this a little bit in our, in our interview and obviously we won't get into too much stuff that happened in Ponderosa, but like, give me your headspace in those last few days of the game before we get to final tribal council. Cause again, it's pretty discerating, you know, blind side on your behalf. And you obviously, again, didn't necessarily have the full picture as to what Kyle and Camilla were doing. Headspace as you were watching the final five and final four play out in front of my, my thing. When I got to Ponderosa was I had a rubric for what I wanted.

[00:47:57] My winner, like a college professor, man, go with what, you know, right? Yeah. Well, I want to talk about that rubric because you recently revealed it on Tik TOK. And of course, in true Shaheen fashion, it is comprehensive. So you go by five pieces of criteria, which is a gameplay, social play, self-awareness, final tribal council, in terms of persuasive versus defensive, but I want to focus temporarily here on a really interesting final facet, which is darkness, which is a mastering the dark arts. Talk to me more about this.

[00:48:27] Is this a facet that you, you went into the game with knowledge about? Of course. Yeah. The dark arts is one of my favorite parts of survivor. The use of intimidation, shame, and guilt is almost never talked about. And yet it plays such a vital role in our relationships. It's such a huge part of our relationships. And yet out there, it's like, it's like, it doesn't exist, but of course it does. There was guilt and intimidation associated with coming for Joe and Eva.

[00:48:53] There was intimidation coming from Joe towards a lot of players in the game. And that was really effective gameplay because there's no actual threat. There's no threat. He can't do anything to you. He can't even get mad at you. Who cares? This is some random guy. You don't even know. Who cares if he gets mad at you? Who cares if he gets upset? But that is useful in the game of survivor.

[00:49:17] The feeling that it's real is what Jeff talks about, I think, at the beginning of season 47, right? Like, yeah, you're not going to actually die, but that doesn't matter in your brain. You're going to think you are. And I wanted to know, was that intentional? And that was my jury question, right? Like, what did, what did you do? What, like, what kind of intimidation, guilt, shame? How did you leverage that? I did it in the game. I made people feel guilty about my level of eating because I wasn't eating coconuts.

[00:49:47] Oh, interesting. Okay. So you purposely were not necessarily scaling back, but you're sort of like, I haven't eaten a lot. Can you take me on something? Totally. And I also made people feel wonderful. I tried to make people feel awesome all the time. Part of that is gameplay. Part of that is my natural state, right? But because of that, they felt shame for not taking me on a reward. This guy's making, this guy's cracking me up all day at camp.

[00:50:14] I both want him on the reward with me and I feel bad if I don't take him. But this stuff exists in the game, but it also exists in the vote. And that is what I wanted to know. I wanted to know, how did you use that stuff? How did you use intimidation? How did guilt play a factor in your game? And it just wasn't really accurately talked about at Final Tribal Council. And so it didn't show it. Yeah. I'm curious about what your perspective was going into Final Tribal Council.

[00:50:41] I think a lot of us would have expected, despite, again, how raw that wound might have been. We would have thought, okay, Shaquem might be locked in for Joe, considering how close they were. Did you have your mind pseudo made up at Tribal? Or were you really going in as this open book? No, there was a win path for everybody. I think Eva would have had a really hard time winning my vote because I worked with her. And I didn't feel like she was exercising a lot of agency throughout our votes. I personally didn't feel like she was exercising more agency than Joe.

[00:51:11] So when given the choice between Joe or Eva, I'm picking Joe almost every time. So the win path for Eva for my vote was pretty difficult. But the win path for Joe and for Kyle absolutely existed. Kyle's argument was, hey, man, the biggest move I made was to take out you. I love flattery. Flattery is always going to work on me. You were playing an excellent game. And I had to do a lot to do that. And the way that I did that was lying to Joe.

[00:51:39] Joe's win path would have been, hey, man, I rode you. I knew that you were going to be seen as a strategic threat. And you were our strategist. And I had to push you in front of the bus at some point. Otherwise, you would have beat me. Kyle cracked this plan. And I let the bus hit you. Because if I'm driving the bus, I get taken out next when I lose the immunity challenge at five. But by letting Kyle hit you with the bus or Camilla hit you with the bus, it's somebody else that gets hit at five.

[00:52:08] And I survived to four. And at four, I'm guaranteed final tribal council because I'm a fire maker. He made the best fire, fastest fires out there. I would have loved to have seen final four fire between him and I because it would have been fun to watch. Because I'm pretty quick. But Joe is a magician with a fire. He's a fireman. Right? And so Joe had, you know, maybe a better shot at winning if he really articulated the game that he really played.

[00:52:37] I think that at times he kind of got away. Dude, you're out there for 26 days. You're tired. You're hungry. Like, you're super uncomfortable. He already got blindsided twice earlier that day hearing that, you know, Kyle's a lawyer and Eva's a PhD student. And I think that he probably must have felt some type of weird about the fact that Eva is talking about, you know, needing this from Joe.

[00:53:01] And then also, yeah, but I'm also a PhD student and I'm incredibly smart and I'm incredibly capable and blah, blah, blah, blah. And so that is a really confusing emotional space to be in when you go into final tribal council. This other guy that I trusted over my number one, the guy that I spent every day on the beach with, I trusted Kyle over him. And he's been lying to me about being a lawyer this entire time.

[00:53:29] What was your perspective when, from our point of view, the bomb gets dropped? You know, the final slam dunk alley-oop from Camilla and Kyle of, oh, no, no, we were the ones to make the Shaheen boot happen and we're secretly working together. Again, from your perspective, maybe not that much of a secret, but was this a lot of revelatory information for you that moved the needle one way or the other? Yes and no. I had my suspicions that it was Kyle and Camilla that kind of organized it.

[00:53:58] I thought that it was Joe that was just down to get rid of it. Like, I didn't know that it was this big concocted plan and all of that stuff. Camilla kept that under wraps at Ponderosa. I didn't realize the lengths to which that they went and the gameplay that was required in order to get rid of me. In some ways, that's the coolest thing ever, right? Like, they had to do a lot in order to get Joe.

[00:54:23] And they also had to approach him while he was in the middle of the most emotional moment of his entire life. True. And, you know, this guy is he is a hero. Joe Hunter is no doubt a hero. And he's having his biggest moment that he's been probably waiting for for the better part of a decade. And he finally gets to have it. And he gets to have it in peace because he's wearing an immunity necklace.

[00:54:48] And then he comes back to his number one, his brother out there, the guy who is the closest person to him. And the first thing that comes out of my mouth is, OK, but what are we doing with the vote? And how are we going to do this? And he's like, dude, it's Mitch. Leave me alone. Leave me alone. And I'm like, what do you mean leave me alone? Like, I'm trying to play Survivor. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that just is not going to work. And then Kyle pulls him aside and is like, you know how he's super mad and he's being super all this weird shit?

[00:55:17] It's because he has an idol that he didn't tell you about. Oh, that's why he's doing. That's why he's mad at me. That's why he's being a dick to me. Well, there you go. Perfect move. Perfect timing. See you later, Shaheen Daivari. Well, as we're starting to wrap things up, Shaheen, one thing that I know you really wanted to talk about was representation. You know, I was there on day one when you when Jeff asked, what was the reason why you answered the call? And you talked about wanting to be the first Persian man to play Survivor.

[00:55:47] And look, I'm going to reveal my own Kyle and Eva as secret here. I am very white. And so I would not necessarily be in the position to talk about this. So let me bring in somebody who I know. Yes. You lied with so, so much. He was so distraught not to draft you in the draft. We're bringing him back to make up for lost time here. Who is Zanfakili is here. What's up, Pouya? Hey. Oh, my God. The amount of beard power on this screen right now is just unbelievable. Unbelievable.

[00:56:17] Yeah. Love it. Three equally bearded men. I mean, Pouya, listen, as we're wrapping up here, you know, anything you want to ask, particularly when it comes to that area of representation? I mean, you saw it like the thing is, as corny as it may be to some people who watch it, but it's not that deep, but it's just a draft. I, Shaheen is the first Persian man to be on the show. Like y'all saw the way I lost it when I got to pick Venus for 46. Like to me, it's like, like, here's the thing, right?

[00:56:45] Being Persian and like being born in the Middle East, like I'm rooting for all the brown people when I get them because we were very far and few in between. So I claim everybody. I claim everybody. So then it's like when you're Persian, you're Iranian. I'm like, oh, but you're like an extra level higher. Like we're like close. And I was like, okay, yeah, I need him. So I didn't get Shaheen. I got big mad. But then listen, I, I told everybody, I was like, you got me rooting for Terran's team, which if you know, I'm not usually trying to root for the man's team is very cocky.

[00:57:13] Well, I was, I was thrilled by the reaction for sure. And, and, and I, you know, I said it on day one. I did not plan on saying that on day one, the Jeff Probst magic took over, you know, those dimples came out and I just was like, sure. And being that type of representation and I'm sure you've dealt with this, man. It's like the perception of Persian men is aggressive. It's super jealous.

[00:57:40] It's, you know, it's not particularly friendly and fun loving and vibrant. That is not the perception, even though that's the reality that growing up in my house, that was the reality. I had a vibrant and amazing storytelling, like such a fun loving dad. And that was the example that I had. My brother is the coolest dude on planet earth. Okay. He is responsible for raising me.

[00:58:08] And so I'm 10 years older than me and was like the coolest brother ever, you know? And I was, I didn't make my varsity soccer team. And my brother was in the middle of a date when he found out in a, in a movie theater in the middle of a date. And, you know, Davis is an hour and 15 minutes away and he was home in an hour and five. And didn't matter. Like that's the type of support that I had from Persian men growing up and the type of role models that I had. And so certainly had a little bit of weight to carry while I was out there.

[00:58:36] And I feel like, I feel like I carried it pretty well. I feel like I came across not as an angry, you know, brown dude, but as a thoughtful, thoughtful dude. So yeah, I was, I was bummed you didn't get to root for me, but you were rooting for me anyway. I was rooting for you anyway. You know this, you already know this. Um, yeah, no, man, you, you knocked it off the park. You really did. Like, I feel like again, man, I can count it on my hands, how many Persians we've had on, on these shows. And like, I feel like more recently, thankfully there's more of us.

[00:59:05] Um, like even in the last like two years, I can count off the top. No, I'm not going to do that. I made the mistake of doing this. And then someone was like, you forgot, you forgot her. And I'm like, well, yeah, listen, I love them all. Anyway. Um, yeah, the Sam Asghari came for my ass on the traders exit interviews because I was a little bit shady to him. So it is what it is, man. But no, the thing is you absolutely did. And I echo everything you said, like really do. I feel like the, the, the aggressive thing. Like I, when I meet people for the first time, I try and be very cautious that like, I know who I am.

[00:59:33] I just know you need to get to know me first because that's the way you're going to see me. And it is what it is, but I'm aware of it. I'm aware of it. And like, I literally put a mustache on top of my beard because I thought like it softens the blow a little bit. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Like it's, it's one of those things that like, okay, cool. Like I get it. People have a, a perception that is not their fault. Their perception comes from the media that they consume.

[01:00:00] And you don't really get to choose that much. What movies you watch is like the studios put them out. And when they see that type of representation all the time, they, they are going to come to their conclusions that implicit bias, whether it's intentional or not is going to be there. So how do I combat that in a game like survivor, especially given the knowledge that I got from 46, which is I'm out there in pregame in 46 and I'm just smiling at people. I'm literally just smiling. That's all I was doing in 46 smiling.

[01:00:30] And every once in a while, like, you know, trying to make some, some kind of like jokey, like pointing something. Yeah. Mr. Suave. Yes. Uh, with my hair all curled up and clothily, I'm a snake charmer. Uh, now. Okay. Knowing that all I have to do is smile at people and Tiff, Tevin, Soda were all just mad skeptical of me. How do I tone that down and still manage the threatening vibe and the, this and the, that,

[01:01:00] and, uh, did everything I could to try and kind of play within that tight rope that everybody has to walk on survivor. Everybody's got their tight rope to walk on survivor. Right. And I knew mine very, very well. And, you know, also having to play in a way that represented a community is, is, is a weird thing, but for sure it's in the back of your mind all the time out there. I don't want to come across as the angry Persian dude.

[01:01:26] I don't want to come across as the aggressive guy, even though being aggressive is, is an important part of the game. You have to use that emotion throughout the game to get things done sometimes. And, uh, and yeah, walking that tight rope was, was also like, you know, a challenge. It's fun. It's cool. Well, listen, this was an absolute day at the circus getting the chance to talk with you. Shaheen speaking of high, high wire act last thing quickly, uh, in terms of plugs, you listen,

[01:01:54] you've enlisted your services out there. You will, you know, help coach people through the various speeches that they have to make. I know you just did that with your pal, Mitch, you know, all, all the great stuff that he's been doing. So if people want to check out all the great services you're offering, how can they do so? Yeah. You can go to my website, ShaheenDavari.com. I do classes, uh, like once a month. And so you can kind of drop in for a three hour class and learn everything there is to know about public speaking, about finding your voice, how to heal your voice and how to use your voice.

[01:02:26] It's much easier, uh, to do public speaking when you know who you are. And I do private coaching as well. One-on-one coaching. I'm also a keynote speaker myself. So if you want to fly me out and have me do a training for your company or whatever, I do all that stuff through my website. You can book a call with me and, uh, and we'll get to it. I love that stuff. I've been doing it for a decade. I love the moment where people realize, Oh wow. When I find my voice and I use it, it feels incredible.

[01:02:54] Nothing is cooler than finding your voice and then using it and seeing it have an impact. I, I, I gave up a career, a very lucrative career as a lawyer so that I could go do this instead. Because, you know, I, I talk to people about their foot to floor time all the time, which is the time from when you wake up to the time that you put your foot on the floor to go to work. How long is that time? And for me, that time is one second.

[01:03:24] I'm ready to go to work as soon as I wake up because I love this stuff. I love helping people get past their fear of public speaking, their fear of interpersonal connection, giving them strategies that are repeatable every single time. So if you want to work with me and you do trust me, you, uh, you can visit my website, uh, Shaheen Davari.com and you can use the code. You can, you know what? I'll make a coupon code. RHAP. You can use the code RHAP, R-H-A-P. Uh, and you can get 20% off anything.

[01:03:54] Hell yeah, baby. There we go. Hell of a closing argument for you, Shaheen. And listen, never feels like we're getting the chance to talk with you, man. We've talked about this, getting the opportunity to follow you from the, the days of the mythical beer guy through getting to participate on 48 through now, through the future. I'm sure we'll have more opportunities to talk. I mean, I gotta, I gotta say like, I, I finished and we can end here if we need to, but I finished my survivor alternate game. And the next person that I spoke to was Mike Bloom that up into that moment, I was playing

[01:04:24] my ass off out there, having fun, smiling at people, whatever. And then the whole entire cast goes to take the all cast photo. So now they realize who the alternates are. They come back. I get to see the reaction to me getting voted out of the game, which no one gets to see, which is kind of cool because they were devastated. And then of course I'm devastated because now my game is over. And then they're like, all right, go talk to Mike Bloom. And for the next like 15, 20 minutes, I literally am just like crying most of the time as Mike is like walking me through, like it could still happen.

[01:04:53] And also next year and is like being very sweet. And so thank you so much, man, for being awesome for all of us out there. It's such a joy to get the monotony of those first five days broken up by someone who loves Survivor so much. And getting the chance as someone who loves Survivor to talk to someone who loves Survivor is awesome. We're very, very lucky to have you as part of the Survivor community, man. Like very, very, very lucky that you do all the work that you do. So thank you for all the recaps that I send out week after week to my ProPsy group.

[01:05:22] Thank you for all the pregame interviews, for getting us all stoked to play the game. And the smile that you wear every single time on the other side of that cameraman is, it's infectious. So thank you, bro. Appreciate it. Dude, the pleasure is all mine. You got me crying in this club. Hell of a note to start these postings and interviews with. But we got more coming. Yeah, who's next? Do we know who's next? Can I plug who's next? You'll find out in due time. Deep Dive. Thank you for choosing me to lead off.

[01:05:50] I know that you never would have chosen anybody else. It's not like they're on an island doing something more important or anything. Good luck to the 48ers. I hope you all win 50. Fingers crossed. And we'll certainly talk about that in the future. So Shaheen, as for always, incredible chat. All the best to you and yours, your mom. Please give the best to your mother, especially. Have a good one, man. Thanks so much again. And there you have it, folks. My talk with Shaheen Daivari and the Survivor 48 postseason interviews have just gotten started.

[01:06:19] We've got a couple more, at least in the hopper, with some more contestants from the season proper. So make sure you don't miss out on a second of it, nor any of the other stuff we have going on Survivor wise here on Rob has a podcast. Of course, Brandon Donlan doing the week daily Survivor 50 files interview series every Wednesday. I'm counting down the 25 greatest moments in Survivor history. And there's sure to be plenty of other random podcasts popping up between now and when Survivor

[01:06:46] 49 premieres just a few months away. So go to we know survivor dot com to make sure you subscribe to all of our podcasts and videos throughout the summer. And I just want to come in here at the end as well, because I know we were a little rushed for time towards the end of our chat. Again, one hour time frame. But we want to cram in as much stuff as we possibly could into those 60 minutes. But I just want to give a massive thank you to Shaheen for everything he brought to this

[01:07:15] conversation, as he always does, and his incredibly kind words at the end in particular. And to Puyazam Bikili as well. It was an incredibly important moment in conversation that I know both of them were incredibly eager to have. And so I was just grateful to be in the room to have these two guys talk about the importance of representation. So I hope you all enjoyed it as well.

[01:07:39] I'll be back in your eyes and ears in just a smidge of time with the next Survivor 48 contestant that I'll be speaking to in this postseason series. Until then, everybody, thanks so much for listening. Take care. Bye bye.