Road to Reality | Reflecting with Gabby Pascuzzi

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[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Road To Reality, a limited series where I, Helen Bechdel, go on a conversational journey

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_02]: with fellow survivor contestants about their real lives.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: In this 10-part series we invite you to listen in on unscripted conversations

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_02]: that, crazy enough, aren't really about playing survivor, but about being a person who was on survivor.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: These are deep dive conversations not into post-game strategy,

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: but into the lives of contestants before and after survivor

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and the experiences that shaped them into who they are today.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So sit back, relax and join me as we take a ride down the road to reality.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to Road To Reality.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Here we are already over the hill into episode 6 as we go towards a season of 10 episodes.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Excited to have you here today because we will be speaking with Gabby Pascuzzi from David vs Goliath.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Gabby is currently getting her PhD in social psychology.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: A life experience that has given her the expertise to reflect upon the survivor experience

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: through a lens that the rest of us don't have since we aren't all relationship researchers.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Our paths crossed in Denver as we both live there at the same time

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_02]: during pivotal points in both of our survivor journeys.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: We talked together about being quote-unquote emotional women on survivor,

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: being mentors to survivors who play after us and becoming what Gabby has coined,

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: survivor elders.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Gabby is open and reflective and tells us a lot about where she has been

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: since she played survivor and what she's up to today.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I present to you the excitable, funny, empathetic

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and just along for the ride, Gabby Pascuzzi.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I just would like to welcome the lovely Gabby Pascuzzi.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for being with me here today.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yay! Hi, Kellen.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: How have you been?

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you sitting in the world right now just finishing up your first or second year?

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Second year.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I am in Buffalo, New York, good old Western New York.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I am here like you alluded to for my PhD and I just finished my second year of that,

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_03]: like literally a week or two ago.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So now I'm in summer basking mode in Buffalo, hanging out.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Nice. I just saw on Instagram this morning you posted lovely pictures of just like being with people.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: What is that?

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Like when you're in a PhD program, do you feel like you don't get to just be with people and now you're free?

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so bad at Instagram.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I post like once every couple months and then I do like a dump of just like here are all the things that I've done over the past few months.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm really lucky to have like a really, really good group of friends here, which I'm sure we'll get into because it's been such a journey.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, like grad school takes up so much of my time, although I still make a lot of time for socializing.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I think that's probably part of being older in grad school.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I started when I was 28 and I'm 30 now.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And I since I've experienced work life balance before now I'm just like, I'm not like in college.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not an undergrad anymore.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Like this is my job. It's a very hard job.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm going to spend time with my friends and my people that I love because that's like the joy of life.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So now I get to spend even more time with them that I'm quote unquote on summer break, which is a thing that I haven't had in like a million years.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, are you taking summer? Do you have to take classes and stuff this summer? Are you taking an actual rest?

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm taking a fair amount of rest. I thankfully don't have to take classes, but there's still some like I still have to work on research projects that are ongoing.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So there's still a little bit of like checking my computer, but pretty much people are understanding if you're not like answering nine to five,

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_03]: which is like very much in line with my vision of what I want my summer to be.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. So tell me I'm sure many people know, but for those of us who don't, what is the specific program you're studying?

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. So I am in a social psychology PhD program at University at Buffalo, which is big. It's a SUNY school.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: It's very big. There's a lot of research that goes on there.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And social psych is broadly the study of people and social situations and groups and relationships and how we interact with and perceive a social world.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And then within that, I am interested in close relationships, which is often understood.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And I do have an interest in romantic relationships, but can also mean close others like family members or friends or anyone that you would consider a close other as well as non-traditional forms of quote unquote close others.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So we also talk about parasocial relationships, which is really interesting having been on survivor.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And what define what a parasocial relationship is?

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it is a one-sided relationship that you have with your favorite celebrity or even fictional character.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So like if I love Ariana Grande, I don't know why I chose... I always choose her as an example, even though I'm not the biggest Ariana Grande fan.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not against her, by the way. But I always use her as an example.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's like so if I love Ariana Grande and I feel like she's my friend and I feel like I know a lot about her, and I would have a parasocial relationship with her.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: But she doesn't know who I am. And it's a really cool kind of relationship too because it's a relatively psychologically safe form of relationship because Ariana Grande can't reject me if she doesn't know who I am.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So I get to enjoy like my awesome one-on-one in my head relationship with her, but she probably won't harm me because she won't reject me. She won't like turn me down for a hangout.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, won't say no to you for a date.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Like is there like parasocial romantic relationships as well?

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I think some people definitely attraction and things like that play a role, but it can also be with your favorite fictional character, like maybe a favorite television show character who you feel like you really identify with.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And you have a parasocial relationship with them or like a group of people. It's really cool. Like when I watch Gilmore Girls, I'm like, oh yeah, like I'm like, I'm like roaring and Lorelai.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like hanging out in Star's Hollow.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like that, doesn't it? When you binge or like read for when I read some books, series books, like back to back to back. Like when it's over, you're like, I miss these people.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm interested in your take. I've been going through what just dive right in here. Is this what happens when you're a social psychology research people start telling you about their troubles?

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I know that it's a trouble, but I'm excited to talk to you about it. I wasn't planning on it, but last night I just found my brother had recorded me the entire car ride home when they picked me up from Survivor for like nine hours.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Nine hours of me just like talking about everything.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just like so in love with everyone, well almost everyone from my season and just like talking about like, oh, and this is about Sebastian and he likes this and did it.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And Janice, he did it. And like, I'm just like so caught up and I keep pausing in my thoughts to answer their questions because I'm like texting with the people from my season and like going in and out of this being with my family, my real human family, but like being with my survivor.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Group. And when you say like this one way relationship in the middle of being on Survivor it feels very two way like it was like you're in it you're out there on the island.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And then here we are years later and I talk with some people but not everybody. And it so when you say this parasocial relationship and dynamic, at least me, my experience with my cast feels like wait, was that me like liking Ariana Grande as in my relationship with people or was that actually a two way thing.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. Have you thought about this in the situation of survivor to survivor or just more like fans with survivor?

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that is so interesting. So funnily enough, we actually did a study that looked at kind of the fan to survivor relationship. And so when more comes out about that, I would love to share more about that.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think what you brought up between like people who maybe were close at one point and now maybe you've drifted apart a little bit is such an interesting way of thinking about parasocial relationships.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that right away I would classify it as that because I'd be like, okay, they know who you are and you did have a relationship. It's more like it's a relationship that's maybe grown apart.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_03]: But there was a part something you said made me think of this thing that I've been trying to work on in my research with others is how nowadays with social media, it feels like we are all kind of these like targets of parasocial relationships where I'm like you said, we haven't even caught up yet on the podcast or just chit chatting.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And you said, oh, I saw your pictures of you and your friends. That looked fun. So you learned something about my life from social media that I hadn't even shared with you yet. And so we're really thinking about how social media is this way that like parasocial relationships get developed in terms of maybe you haven't spoken to Sebastian in a few months, but you're seeing his posts and seeing the latest fishing expedition that he's been on and you feel like you know him.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But in the same vein, like maybe he sees your updates too and feels like he knows you. And that's something we haven't really talked about in terms of parasocial relationship that feels like I don't know this new thing that maybe we don't have a term for but it's basically this like loose ties of staying in connection with people, which has been talked about in terms of like casual acquaintances or your work

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I think they actually do call it loose ties where it's like you know you say hi to your bus driver in the morning you chit chat at the water cooler. It almost feels like it's like a digital version of that. Yeah, which is really cool.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And I bought side note I think it's so sweet that your family has that recording of you that would be so cool it's like a snapshot of a moment in time. Oh my God it's so, it's so lovely like it's so I cried during it I laughed listening to it cringe listening to it like it's so many feelings I made it through like three hours of the nine hours and I was like okay that's enough like I can't do this.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I say that the nine hours when I came back to my family was like so overwhelming to listen to can you relate to that like if you had a recording of your few hours after you got home.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel like it would be weird to go back and listen to it were you in a different headspace at that time or not so much.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it would definitely be weird funnily enough because of my sort of what I have become known for on my season. One of the very very very first things I said to my family is I was like oh my God guys I cried so much.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So I kind of immediately had this like meta awareness of like this is what happened. And I actually think I found it hard to talk to my family about all the nitty gritty of what happened of like I wasn't word vomiting everything to them I think I was very in my head and I remember that night.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_03]: First night I came back to the US I stayed up until like 4am I mean partially jet lag but I remember the feeling of like laying there I think I was even on the couch I didn't even go to the bed and like stared at the ceiling and was just like thinking.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Thinking.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you remember.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't particularly remember I it might have been just it felt like adrenaline as I remember what it felt like it was like I couldn't go to sleep because it felt like I just like wrote a crazy roller coaster.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I and there were other nights maybe not the first night that I did lay awake and think of numbers and like voting and strategy like very game focused. But of course I was also very very obsessed with my castmates like you were I was always texting and then we were always on the phone.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And one thing that what you said about your family to that made me think of is like things that are so intense like that we don't know what kind of an impact that has on our real relationships.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Where I don't know did you talk to your family at all after that like I do.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have a significant other or anything at the time like I didn't have somebody who might have felt I've always wondered do those people feel kind of like excluded or just like they can't understand this big part of you.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I so one thing that one of the psychologists who was with us thankfully said to tell our families they were like this won't make sense to you but just tell your families this.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it was Dr. Liza or what but she was like tell your family like I'm going to be acting like these new people are my family but you're my real family and I love you and I'll come back to land I'll land back in reality soon enough but it's going to feel like I care more about these new people than I care about you

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: but I do love you very much like Dr. Liza told us to tell our families that and I think that helps so much I mean I didn't understand why she was saying that and even though she was saying that clearly it didn't sink in but looking back it's like yeah I think

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I think our real family relationships and I do know a lot of people who have gotten back from survivor have struggled immensely with their personal relationship if they weren't or were in a one on one romantic relationship.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Like a lot of people like ended up breaking up I mean maybe eventually got to back together but it certainly had a strong impact.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I can think of a significant other one of the people from our cast got to be around a lot because we went to their house and like we were all like you know still getting ready in our underwear like in front of the guy is like putting

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_02]: our makeup on we all shared we rented a house in San Diego and even though it was three story house with multiple bedrooms we drug all of the mattresses in so we could all sleep in the same room like these are like 30 and 40 20 30 and 40 year old adults, all of us pulling

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the mattresses in and like the significant others being like what is wrong with you guys like and I've seen person and jam jam and Carolyn posting a lot of pictures were like all in the same bed together and all that stuff.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you have that experience with your postcast postseason castmates not did you get into bed with them but did you get into bed with them you know like yeah walls are just broken down can you describe for people listening what that was like for you.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so true what you said it's like we become this freaky codependent family that is so comfortable with each other because we really endured horrible conditions out there together like going through rain and things like that we were huddled up together.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_03]: We've all smelled each other's bio and things like that.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember my cast got together only a few months after we finished filming in New Orleans and same thing we all had a big Airbnb and I have a memory of the girls.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Same thing though people walking around sort of in towels like maybe not thinking about Oh does everyone want to be seeing me in this state.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But I took a shower in the same bathroom as all the girls were getting ready and I just was, I was like this is going to be easier to save time.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And that those kinds of things were not strange because it's like we'd already seen each other all at our lowest it doesn't really matter to me.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But looking back it was probably very jarring for the people around us and I think also yeah the physics the physicality of it like being in the same beds being close together.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I know a big part of it for me is then eventually I didn't live near any of my castmates so besides those big reunions I wasn't like hanging out with them a lot.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a lot of phone time and I would take now I'm not at that job anymore so it's fine for me to say but I would take like hours long lunch breaks and walk around and talk on the phone with whoever Christian or Allison or whoever that we and we would just talk about it.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's more than I talked to my family or my friends from college or other people that I missed on the phone at that time.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's definitely lopsided at first.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's such great advice that the psychologist gave you to because it is all encompassing for a long time like for a very long time.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I know I tried to because some newer school like post season 40 people have reached out about my podcast which I would love to talk with them.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope to in coming years but like what I described it is like I thought I was out of survivor for example maybe when you when I met you we can get to that in a little bit but like when then once my season aired and then I'm like OK now I'm out of like I've moved out of whatever the bubble.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Is and now I mean it was six years ago this week that I went out to play so about five years ago that I was on TV and it's like man I don't think first of all I'm still in it here we are talking about it you and I are in in what this bubble creates in some ways but I don't think I was completely like had both of my feet on the ground for like probably two years after I think what's your ballpark on.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I think two years is when I was like oh whoa I was in it and then like you said there's still stages where even now same for me five years since my.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_03]: About five years and even now I have moments where I'm like oh I'm out of it and then and I think now I can look back on it and think oh I am mostly out of it because I think what you were kind of getting to is like the contrast when I meet my new.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Era friends then I have several either from like before and they happen to get cast or we've just crossed paths and and I see them and I go oh you're in it.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Am I kind of out of it and I'm a little bit proud of myself not that it's a bad thing to be in it but like exactly what you're saying telling like it takes so much longer than you think I remember.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I heard like Cass on a podcast saying that it took her about two years and for some reason I had that benchmark in my head and I remember at about two or two and a half I was like oh I feel it.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not thinking about it all the time everything that I'm doing isn't centered back on that and then don't you feel like it takes on a new shape when you've moved through it.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Then now here I am at five years and it's like I can engage again because I feel so much more fine.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, more fine.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love that you said it feels like it took on a different shape. Can you put more words to that like now that you're looking back what's different.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think for the first few years it is very me centric and that's not a bad thing because it's a very impactful huge life event that most people in the world don't go through so for two years you're like it's a little bit of me me me I mean like you said us us us with the cast but really that is sort of a me me me thing of like I went through this huge life changing thing.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And then it does start to take on another shape as like this meta awareness of what role that period played in your life, which I feel like I know you know all about but it's like it can be this launchpad for stuff afterwards.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's not an uncommon thing that I've heard other past survivor alumni say you can remember your life in terms of before survivor and after survivor.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And of course you can say that about any big event I would imagine you know before so and so's death or after their death or before marriage and after marriage or whatever large event in your life.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_03]: But for me that was one of my singularly most impactful life events and it happened to me when I was 25 which is already a extremely pivotal age.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I feel like just the shape that it's taken on is like, I appreciate the, I appreciate having distance with it because I can really reflect on what it allowed me to do afterwards.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And so one thing I want to say is I think when I was in it and I think a common thing and I don't blame people at all for this but you hear it on the show as well as when people say like it changed me.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_03]: It made me who I am.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I think there was a big moment in this most recent season where Jeff is so excited to hear somebody say that I think.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's like you it didn't it's not that it is like it actually changed who you were it made you who you are.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I bought into that for a long time I was like oh well I'm so self assured and confident and did it all these things now because I did survivor.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think with a few years distance I was like, I'm not going to give survivor all that credit because I've done a lot of work afterwards and also we were the type of people that went on survivor which already said something about our personalities and the type of person we were in the risks that we wanted to take.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Like yes can survivors show you that oh I can do so much more than I thought I could do every yes but like I think with distance I've been like well I'm not going to give survivor all that credit.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Whoa I'm still growing. I didn't become actualized after playing a 40 day game at the age of 25 like holy crap I'm 30 now and I'm still growing and learning all the time like it didn't make me who I am it was a huge huge event but I am who I am and I'm still changing and growing.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that. I love also what it's helped me looking back is like people say like going on survivor like it's this one thing like somebody at the finale and I'm sure Lauren felt exactly what she was telling the truth in that moment.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But the narrative around it is that like this one thing being on survivor changed your life and I'm like it's actually three years of a series of things that each of us navigated that yes did have an impact on our life.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And that has helped my perspective as in like oh going on survivor changed your life. Yes but going through casting going to be in Fiji the seven month wait period after being on television having an entire new group of friends dating someone new from the show like.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Social media afterwards.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God social media afterwards being here getting to have this conversation with you like that is all of those things and I think that helps me.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a little bit more perspective of.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I am growing I am changing being a survivor instead of being on survivor has changed a lot in my life but yes I love that you're taking credit for it yourself of like that was part of where my journey went but that's not what like arrived my personality into my life.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Like yeah.

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think like it's so hard for us fans to because then it's like survivor becomes a part of your personality but it was a part of my personality before.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It was like a fan it was a show I was a fan of.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_03]: So I was like I was always a survivor fan and I think I went through this phase after the show where of course then I was like super duper mega fan going to all of the things being on the podcast like loving it that was during that two year period right where you're in it.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And then afterwards I think I went through a bit of a like oh God I don't want to be perceived as survivor being my whole life because probably some like judgmental part of me sees other people who everyone goes through things at their own pace but the judgmental

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_03]: part of me sometimes sees people and goes oh they're clinging too much to it.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And so then that makes me judge myself and there was a period I think where it was like well I don't want to seem like I don't want to.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want this to become my identity.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And then that's that also takes time and then that allows me now to let go of that part and go you know what I am a fan and I've always been a fan so I'm going to be back.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean I never really left but now I'm just going to like go all in and I don't care if I'm the like old head tweeting on Twitter and like posting old pictures or whatever.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like whatever it's like it's it is a part of me it's not the only part of me but I also want to acknowledge and honor it as a part of me.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I love that.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And about I about who you're meeting now and what you think about the season like I love to see my fellow survivors talk about survivor and be and hear them on podcasts and all that so the people who are out there being like oh they just don't ever get off the bus.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like that's cool like you don't have to be on the bus like I like to I like to be on this bus.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I'm on other buses too.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the fun part I think it's like an absolutely no shame to anybody who does have that be their primary you know source of social connections or anything like that that's so valid.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think it's also like well of course I'm posting about the fun survivor things that I go to because it's like that you know I'm sharing with all the online people that I'm connected with that also love survivor but it's like yeah I also have my own social life that's not related to survivor and you know sometimes I keep that a bit more private or sometimes I share about that too.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And I really enjoy having a balance obviously everybody's sort of ratio of how involved and not involved or how is up to them.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But I am really happy with like the place that my alumni status has it has is taking right now like I'm really happy with where I've landed right now.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And does that what does that so just so everyone knows I guess they should catch up about when Gabby and I met. Yes.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So do you want to tell it from your perspective.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure I'll start and you fill in.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Your parts.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah immediately after well OK when I knew that I was going to be on survivor.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Kellen your season was on it was airing so by the time you know I got the yes you're you're going you're flying your season was being shown on television and I saw that you were from Denver and I was like oh my God this is so crazy because or that you lived in Denver you weren't from there

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's where I was living at the time and I didn't say anything because I wanted to be a goody two shoes and follow all the rules.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_03]: So I just went on survivor I didn't talk to a single survivor alumni I didn't know you know now either.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah nowadays you I mean I've been on the other side and nowadays you hear people being like oh I talked to so and so and I was like oh my God such a goody two shoes I like didn't speak to anybody.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But what happened was after I came back I messaged you I guess and I said hey I live in Denver I just finished filming my season.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_03]: You were awesome and also I see so much of myself in you and I would love to meet up and hear any advice that you have and it must have been such a chaotic time for you because it was literally at the finale ish of your season because we came back in May and that's when the season

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_03]: wraps up airing.

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah yeah it was so I remember you messaging me and I was so thankful that you message me and so excited there wasn't really anyone else in Denver at the time can lives outside of Denver but there were any other Denver people at the time.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think and so it was so exciting to have you reach out and then I think you came to my part invited you to my apartment and Bradley was there.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And like looking back now I was still so in it.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean like my season has was just finished airing or was still airing but I remember feeling like oh here I've got you like I'm going to help you through this which is like now I'm like I'm so sorry.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I was not I was ill prepared to be helping anyone through this situation at the time.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: What was it like.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_03]: No you were great I mean it was just so cathartic I think to have somebody to talk to and then it's funny that you say that you're so empathetic on in the on the other hand.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I look back on it and I think oh my gosh I must have been such a burden on poor Kellen who was like going through her own thing and then here's this like new blood coming in and being like.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Meanwhile you were like.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You know finishing like the airing which is like this other phase so we were at different phases and so you probably felt like you and you did have good advice on just like the aftermath of the of the filming.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_03]: But you were going through the aftermath of the airing which I think you don't know till you go through it is a totally different ballgame and I didn't know until I went through it so I'm like oh well she's done with that like she can like mentor me now.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god you were going through your whole own thing.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I was in some ways though it probably helped right because I do remember feeling like okay this is how it's going to go like it's okay to be feeling this way it's okay to be spending three and a half hours in the morning and then another two hours in the evening on the phone like.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: This is just all what so many people go through.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there are some people and I'm trying to figure out somebody who I can talk to who didn't get on the ride really with like talking with people from their cast and get super involved because I'm not sure of that experience.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But for me meeting you and having you come in that time and having you be like the freshman and I was the sophomore even though I thought I was like the graduate you know.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It was so lovely to meet with someone and we were just in the joy of it too the joy of the whole thing.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Both of us now neither of us live in Denver how long were you in Denver then after you got back from the show because I had moved out of Chicago I got back from Chicago when I left survivor I lived in Chicago when I got back I was like.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know where I want to live but I can't live here and so I traveled around I thought maybe I'd moved to LA because that's what you do like Sebastian and Jenna had moved to LA I think and well Jenna had and Sebastian was visiting her.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Went to San Francisco for a while ended up landing in Denver long story short so you come back you are in Denver for a super long time after that correct.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, not quite I was there before you I guess based on that story.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So I I didn't live in Denver to line up there maybe three or three and a half years so I live there for work and then I had already kind of decided that I wanted to move back to the East Coast just because I loved Denver obviously it's a beautiful place.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't making the same friendships that I felt like I had out East before and that may not have been the place's fault but as a 24 25 year old I assumed it was once because I'm in Denver.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Really now I look back and I think well no it's because you were 23 24 25 years old living in a brand new state far away from everybody that you know after college which is a transition time.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_03]: But to be fair to myself as well there is a cultural difference and I had mostly lived on the East Coast and they're sort of just like a more fast pay sort of sarcastic dry type of brash personality that was just the thing that I vibe more with.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And I loved Colorado's scenery but I was like dating out there and I didn't really like the people I was meeting out there and it felt a bit like bro we and obviously that's not everybody in Colorado that was probably a lot of transplants that were moving there and are like like me but you that are like oh bro I love the mountains and I just like I wanted to go to the mountains but I didn't want to like it was just so annoying.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_03]: But I met one of my best friends who you also know Kelsey or who you met through love Kelsey shout out.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_03]: She was from my undergrad which was in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania at Carnegie Mellon and she moved out to Denver and so when I had her and then I eventually met.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_03]: My friend Rachel who was from Denver and that was when I finally had friends there I was like this is nice but I had kind of already thought I'm going to move to the East Coast and I got a remote job that was on the East Coast and they were kind of like well you really should be on the East Coast.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So after survivor only stayed in Denver about six more months and then I moved to the East Coast and my plan had been to move to DC. I don't know why I just wanted to live in DC. I thought it seemed fun. I have family in Virginia and Maryland and like that area and I was really used to Maryland and I just I just thought it was cool.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_03]: But before doing that right after survivor or when I had left Denver I lived with my mom at home in Florida for like three months just because I think I just needed to not be moving.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I needed to just be still and save my money. I mean I was still working remotely but probably decompress like looking back on it now. I think that's what it was without me even having realized it like for me I think I put all these reasons of convenience on it like I was like oh well you know it's like free to stay here and I work from home anyway so it's fine like the weather is good.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I like enough time to look for a place in DC but of course now I'm like oh or maybe you went through this incredibly huge traumatic life experience and like it was about to air on television and you wanted to be near people that were close to you. Maybe it was that.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe all of those things from.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah yeah but I moved to DC like in the middle of survivor airing and I finished out the rest of my survivor season in DC which was very fun because I had friends in the area and I hosted watch parties and things like that so it was very fun.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But then I only stayed in DC for a year.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So I've been all over the place. I'm here in Buffalo.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah it's a it's a winding journey. I kind of I feel you on that stuff of just like in transition because I was in Denver.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Well I got back from I paid for my Chicago apartment. I had this inkling before I left for survivor where I was like I should just move my stuff to my parents house but I was like no I'm not going to do that I'll come back as soon as I got back I like traveled.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to go hang out with Bradley for a long time we went down to Florida to visit Morgan and Sebastian like I was just like because I quit my job.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah before I went out all together and I was just on the road for so long in such transition but even the next few years after that even though I was in Denver I was traveling like every week or every month at least once I flew out of Denver airport just like going to be with people from the cast and

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_02]: like going to Hearts of Reality doing all these things which were so fun but it took until I don't know I settled probably two years after that and then I blew up my whole life again and decided to go to Spain in 2020 and yeah

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: That whole thing so now we are still transitioning still in a whole thing maybe that's just who we are as people and maybe that wasn't really survivor at all because we were transitioning before you already East Coast and moved to Denver and all that stuff.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah we're definitely a certain type of person but I agree with you and I actually remember talking to you after I came back from the game and knowing that you did like career coaching and things like that and being like gala and it feels like I want to change everything and I don't even think

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I like my job I mean I kind of knew I didn't like my job but I was like should I not just take this momentum and like change everything and I didn't end up changing my job at that time but definitely the seed was planted because a few years later I changed my career I left my job as a technical writer and applied for the program I'm in now and my Ph.D.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to say that I'm not going to change my career but I think yeah it's definitely both it's like the type of people that we are and also it is kind of this I think I actually remember you using a phrase like it's this like launch pad or rocket ship or something it's like why not just like go on it

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: like ride it now and that just didn't even have to mean like go ride your 15 minutes of fame and go like become an actor in LA it was more just like use the momentum of this novelty and like renewed energy and excitement about who you are and all the things you can do and use that to see what you really want to do.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And this closeness to who you are at your core like that is one thing I'm curious about your perspective because there was this whole thing and we talk about this ride as disruptive or whatever but I do believe those 35 30 plus days or whatever that we were out there when you don't have food when you're in the middle of it you don't have a bed and all that stuff that I do feel like I was more in touch with my core self.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Like in the actual quietness of being out there on the island than any other time in my life.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I found that not everyone experienced that what was your experience as far as were you moving closer to yourself or more in the game what was it like out there.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I think there were in some ways I was moving closer to myself where I was or I was being myself and in some ways the chaos of it all prevented me from being myself and I think there were a lot of ways in which I was not myself, but that was not necessarily because of survivor that was because I was 25 years old and not as self aware as I thought I was I think I thought I was a very very self aware 25 year old

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I probably was but like I've said even within the past five years I've learned so much but yeah it's like I found myself gravitating towards people that were kind of my people which I feel like are a reflection of my core self and my values, but in some ways there were a lot of things that I hadn't

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_03]: learned yet about myself and a big one of those is like emotional regulation emotion regulation and as much as I am like proud of and like to talk about yes like showing your emotions is good, etc.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I have a lot more emotion regulation skills now and that doesn't mean bottling it up it literally just means like coping skills right like how to deal with your emotions.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not mad at all at 25 year old me for being emotional or crying or anything like that I think she was awesome, but in some ways I don't think it was my core self because now I feel a lot more centered and at ease with myself and a lot more love from myself.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Which allows me to have kind of calm and safety within myself that I didn't always have before.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And some of that came from just growing up some of that came from after survivor being in a serious relationship and then going through a breakup of that relationship.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And I would say like earlier how I said oh there's a before and after survivor that breakup even though it was just a breakup.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Quote unquote just a breakup.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm glad you caught that I'm like wait why are you that's a lot because exactly I do think a lot in terms of before my breakup and after my breakup because it catalyzed so many changes for me where I was like oh my gosh I need to get some of this stuff under control where this is kind of going away from survivor but yeah basically I feel like it's like we're always still discovering our true or core

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_03]: or self I mean like after that I always knew that I was queer but I started coming out more in public like I knew I was queer when I was on survivor but I just never said it because it was weird it wasn't a part of my casting and so then I felt like I shouldn't talk about it or that it wasn't like what they had cast me for

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: or I just felt like I didn't want it to be on TV in front of people that I hadn't told yet so it was a very like flow roll after that and just as I got older I was like I don't care anymore but it was it was just a weird disconnect because it was like I was always pretty much out among my friends

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_03]: and then I just started making it more and more public in terms of like social media or like that parasocial relationship side of it right so I wonder you know there's probably people out there who are like oh she came out you know she was older she was 29 or whatever

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's like well no it's been happening since I've been like 24 ish so before survivor but like really close to like when you were pretty close which is also why I think I couldn't sit with that myself on survivor so in some ways I didn't feel like I was being true to myself out there because

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_03]: otherwise I could have talked to you know Learisa or the other queer people on my cast about about that and I didn't so it has been a journey I think always always trying to get to that quote core sense of who you are but also realizing that that core self can change

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah yeah certainly certainly it's interesting because you have this I had my long term relationship mine happened to be a marriage but we were together for seven years and we were only married for six months but then we broke up right before I went out on the show

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_02]: so your perspective was you did the show and then you were in a long term relationship but it was someone who you knew from prior so it was a long term relationship whom you lived with right during this pandemic yeah not having a party with

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_02]: like we were in very similar situation like you had a huge life change going through that separation yeah it's interesting ours was just kind of flipped in a way not that we have to be in the same bucket all the time but

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_02]: to say that not going through to going through my marriage and getting divorced wasn't life changing a before and after and so ever was is not true both of those things were very before and after I just happened to be in the relationship after part when I went on the show

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and so I think I was just so like I had I'd really been like okay it's just me here in this world like this is what I've gotten I'm starting fresh and so I think maybe that's why my experience felt so close to being to finally listening when I say my core I mean like

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_02]: finally listening and trusting myself.

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it was this huge big thing to like get divorced leave my whole life behind go on reality TV and be like see I quit my job I this is what I want to do.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And to actually go and do that in that moment I'm so thankful that survivor like landed at my life in that time, and then also sometimes like a mind of you see K because I'm like wait was that real.

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It sure felt real.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm being close to my core, but I do know at night when I was looking at the moon and thinking about what do I want to do with my life and why am I here.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: That felt really true and I feel lucky to have had that kind of experience happening at the same time as being out there.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably kept me from being able to win the show.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You're too busy like self actualizing you know.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_03]: That is really cool though no I can definitely see that like came at such a pivotal time for you when maybe you needed that alone time I say well we're like on an island competing with these crazy people, but like right you by yourself without your former partner.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's so cool I and I have thought actually I think I would be I would be better at the game now I would benefit more from it now, but at the same time I couldn't trade that for anything because I think also doing that at 25.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Also, it's like it's so cool because it can really impact you whether it's in sort of the after of some big life changes and maybe help resolve some things while also of course opening new avenues and then for me it was like I was a baby so it most of

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously opened avenues and for me that that I think has been my biggest realization over the again past five years especially when I turned 30 I had this realization of like, oh haha, I thought survivor

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_03]: self actualized me like I was who I was and I was like oh at 25 I've got it all figured out.

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And really that was the beginning and it was after I was alone after a break a significant breakup and I went through a different transition period of starting grad school and ironically studying relationships that was very interesting.

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That I was like, oh, I'm going through probably what you felt I'm going through that now and my version of being alone is like going through this difficult period alone I'm not alone I have wonderful friends but without that partner and being like, oh I'm doing this I chose to go get my PhD and now I'm just doing that.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah.

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, now I'm just doing that. Are you living by yourself?

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I am.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Is this your first time living without roommates in or a partner?

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I have before but this feels different.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I think because it was like I moved to a brand new city and I started a brand new program.

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And I got my first pets, I got my two cats.

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So it feels different.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I have lived alone before but yeah either it was like during COVID when essentially so actually we had our own separate places but we basically live together during quarantine.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So this is the first time that I felt really autonomous.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I also live like walking distance.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like in the middle of things of all my bars and restaurants and things like that.

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel very fortunate to be where I'm at and in my small little apartment that is always a mess but that I am trying to make a place that I love.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And I actually think like it being a mess is probably because I have moved so much and I feel like I've always, I wonder if you can relate.

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm always like, well, why would I decorate and blah, blah, blah because like I'm probably going to leave.

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, a thousand percent can relate.

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm like, oh, I'm going to be here for five years at least for the length of the PhD.

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_03]: So I've been here two years.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I still don't, I'm not done decorating.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I still don't have art up.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of it's a mess and I actually have like the sweetest and best friends in the world because here's the thing, a lot of that was for those reasons that I stated,

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_03]: but a lot of it was because oh, I moved here and immediately went through a breakup.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So I was like a mess for same like survivor.

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, did I think I was over it after like six months or a year?

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been like a year and a half now and there's still things that come in waves and there's still things where I'm like,

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_03]: the aftermath of this like messy apartment is in part because of my messy qualities and in no small part because I went through an extremely difficult time

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and was like just trying to stay afloat and grad school and like didn't have time to put up art or even water my plants.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I used to be very good with plants and they have taken a hit because like it's been really hard to keep up.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And so now I'm trying to like really honor myself and the space that I live in by being like,

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I deserve to have this look nice and be nice and be a place that I want to live and feel settled.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's also new to me.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's so hard and I will tell you one of the things is you said when you got on along with many people do that my room is like a dark jade green.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_02]: My office is and it's because I've lived in rentals my whole life like no art plain white walls.

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Like so I finally bought a place and it's every room has its own color like my living room has a dark navy wall and gray.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_02]: My bedroom is like a rosy I don't know burgundy pink kind of this office is dark green because it's just like,

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: oh my gosh, I can actually put things into a space that feel like my personality and I think letting yourself do that because you do know

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_02]: you have three more years.

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Like even if it's just like sticky tack on the wall but stuff you like to see little steps like that make a huge difference in walking in home at the end of the day,

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_02]: especially since you're in school and home a lot and studying a lot.

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Then again I'm air being me air being being my house part of the time so it's still a mess.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I have everything just thrown in boxes downstairs like so I don't know.

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't I wish I had tips for you about not to live in a mess but I'm not the one to talk to if you get it figured out.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Please let me know.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, one thing I noticed I was because I go back for a rapid round questions and look at CBS bios and I noticed that you thought you would win survivor because of your balance between your brain and your heart will when you allies which is just too funny to me because that was the whole thing.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that was your only guess.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Your gut and your brain in my heart in my gut of the whole thing so you were out there which Gabby would have filled that out well before my season of survivor had aired.

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the only last question before we do the rapid questions is kind of your take on like I saw Christian posted.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, can we get a early rebrand on the emotional one like for my girl Gabby now that maybe Carolyn is being more celebrated as far as being an emotional person.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I don't know the whole thing is kind of crazy to me that it's this narrative like we are people with emotions and that's like a trope on survivor because like hello world we are people with them but we are all people on this world as emotions.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_02]: How has that been to like navigate being an archetype on survivor and watching other people come in and out of it.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Like what is that experience I think for us many people would say we are in the same bucket.

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Definitely. Yeah, it is weird right because we and definitely when I reached out to you as like hello I am the next you I'm your junior and

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I think everyone who has played survivor says you know it's like it's weird to be flattened and things like that.

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess maybe I expected it to some extent I was like I know they're gonna they have to show the interesting parts I think me that's why I told my family like oh I cried so much.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I knew they were gonna show that and the only thing I think that's really changed is like they're so meta on survivor now.

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like yeah I was emotional you were emotional whoever maybe I don't know.

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's weird that I was out there but for some reason it just wasn't my edit I cried a lot.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I cried as much they definitely had as much footage of me crying as they did you for sure.

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_02]: It just shows how to show it.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I always say it's because I cried during like really pivotal things that they couldn't because when things get stressful I cry and now it's so meta so now you have Jeff being like so what's going on here and I don't know.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so glad that it's been more fluffed out I don't know what the phrase is you know like made more three dimensional.

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I really first started to see it with Mary Ann who when I saw her I was like oh we are so alike like you know we all have similarities but just like her hyperactivity and things like that I was like oh my gosh if I had played when I was I forget how old she was when she played like 22.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Early 20s yeah.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like that would have definitely been me even though it's just a few years later but.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Carolyn on the most recent season I think has been like the most wonderful example and I think partially her and Mary Ann maybe got a better more well rounded thing because they went further yeah so they had to be like these women sure emotional and wacky but look they're also good at the game and it's just a matter of

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of people are like if you don't win the game they're not going to really show you being like that good at the game there's also very few ways in which you can show that people are good at survivor like through the show because it's all focused around the votes and it doesn't show the kind of.

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Maneuvering and things that has to happen for most of the days so I think most of the good players out there are unbeknownst to a lot of fans just in terms of like how they were socially and things like that so I'm really.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Glad that at least for somebody like Carolyn or Mary Ann we saw that balance of strategy and emotion and Carolyn really had the topic of.

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you can be both and I think like I was one of the first people trying to say that where I was like don't let it negate the strategy that's going on so really long way to answer that like I think it's really cool to see the evolution of the archetype Franny is also a good friend of mine and she's like.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_03]: We're so similar it was unbelievable the first time that I.

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Met her and we were like we should talk on the phone I think we talked for like five hours straight and our mannerisms it was like we were talking to a mirror.

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And then when I happened to meet her once the first time we met we were wearing essentially the exact same outfit in different colors.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And then my friends from grad school were there and my like best friend that's in my cohort in my year was like you have you are twins you have the exact same mannerisms so it's very surreal right because you're watching somebody and you're like I'm rooting for you.

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is so weird.

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It is really I will say with Franny a few times I was like wait double take because yeah I think we physically look.

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_02]: The same hair color and stuff so I messaged with her a little bit I haven't had a chance to talk with her I feel like I'm like the old proud and.

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You're.

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like the I'm just older and played earlier and like the game has changed and stuff but I'm just like so proud of just women on survivor.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Being more than just a supermodel.

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I can remember our casting director which was the same one telling me like to get you on survivor I am having to fight tooth and nail because you are more than one thing.

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And like that the producers just don't like it they don't like it they don't like that you are you have a career and you've been divorced and you don't have double D's and like you're like all these things and so I.

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Love that there are so many more women on survivor now that are not not just.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh they're fun to look at from a 45 year old male from middle America like and no I don't want to say that in the I don't know how to say that with a way that doesn't sound like I'm shaming anyone like please everyone who everyone looks great.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_02]: On survivor but it just feels like they didn't used to let women have a lot of a voice and it seems like more so now and I'm thankful for that change and props to casting for pushing women through that are multifaceted.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I totally agree and I think it's so cool and I think also just the climate of social media has changed a bit and a climate of the rest of the cast because even though say I was one of the more outspoken women.

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: You know either sort of when I was on the jury or after the show and that kind of thing and while there were a few people that.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Understood what I was saying.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I was also on a cast where like that view point still wasn't really well regarded so even when I said things about it after the fact people were like okay yeah whatever you're probably just justifying why you came across this way on the show.

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But nowadays I feel like it's like here you have someone like Franny on the jury being this outspoken voice for like let's take a step back and think about the ways in which like how you got here with your emotions and things like that like.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_03]: That was just not afforded to players back then because there was maybe only one or two of us.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And now it's like because holistically people I feel like are more open minded even the men even the people that you maybe wouldn't think their archetype would like.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_03]: They agree with that kind of thing it's like everyone.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Mostly everyone more people are becoming more open minded is online I feel like people are more standing up for those types of people.

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like the like cultural zeitgeist is shifting as well which is making it more exciting for people in our archetype.

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_03]: In our archetype.

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Being a woman who speaks.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's cool right and I mean I'm so grateful that like you were my like survivor big sister my mentor and now it's so cool I think.

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I love also being able to be that person for somebody that's in the new era as they call it and like we said full circle at the beginning having some distance from it like I feel like I am a much better.

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Quote unquote mentor or whatever now.

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Being five years out of it being sort of out of the craziness of it and I always I tell the people that I talk to from that have just played survivor I'm like I love you I don't care about gossip from your season I don't I don't know who is who I don't want to know who's fighting or anything.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to make sure you're okay.

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I just care about the people and I just want like did you are you good and of course you can talk to me about survivor but like I'm not going to remember anything you said about well this person voted for them this person did this.

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like I am now just happy being survivor elder and hoping to get more elder survivor elder that is like it's okay angels we all go through this and like you will come out on the other side and I feel so happy that you and I are like going towards that direction.

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously like we said it comes in waves but it feels good to be on the other side so to speak.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It does the elders of survivor I love that we have arrived at we think maybe we'll do this we will do this 10 years from now and be like oh my God remember when we talked that whole time that we were out of it and we were still right in it.

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Restore it in it.

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I know exactly I'm like what 25 I wasn't self actualized but now at 30 I am but no that's my big realization is I'm like oh I'm just never going to say that I'm self actualized because it just does it's always a process.

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I don't think I would claim to be self actualized.

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: No I think I just took the first step to like believing my own voice which I don't think that's the definition right but.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_03]: No but that is so great.

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway well Gabby are you ready to go through the rapid round questions.

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_02]: All right how many you can you can go into as much detail as you want or give one word answers however you prefer how many times did you apply for survivor.

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_02]: To.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: To me too.

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: How far in casting did you get the first time.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I got contacted and my casting person was like helping me make a new video so they were definitely you know trying to shape me and then I didn't make it for that round and then the next round it was like make the video how we talked about it.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Do that and then you just went straight through.

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah yeah.

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Three OK the three words that you self gave to yourself for your CBS bio were excitable intelligent and empathetic.

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: What are the three words that describe you now these three still fit. You want to change them up.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I actually love these three. I'm like cringing a bit that I said intelligent. I was probably definitely in that casting mindset of like I need to sell myself as a nerd.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I wear glasses.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I do.

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: By the way that was the difference between my first two times applying for survivor second one I put on my glasses and I was like I'm a nerd.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah I mean listen I still do think I'm intelligent but I would say empathetic.

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd maybe throw in like a funny but not not negative but I'm an over thinker or an over analyzer.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But those is one word and I am I still like excitable like I still think or I'm just.

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not one word but I'm just like a long for the ride and I think like I.

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I wish if I have one regret from survivor is I had so much fun and I wish that the TV show part of it showed how much fun I had because people after the show when they met me they would be like oh you're so much more fun and funny in real life and I was like I know.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I imagine that so that's the only part that I would be like you know I don't want to call myself funny but I would I'm like I like being you know exuberant in that kind of thing so I think that's probably what I meant by excitable.

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I like exuberant well to me excitable and I think this brings true for you is like easily moved.

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah that too exactly.

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: In a beautiful way like I'm very easily moved and like also I see you as a person that.

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if someone's going through a rocky time and they're in their rocky boat you're like I will get in this boat with you and we're going to go through these waves and like I've got this I've got this for you and I think that's a beautiful thing about you so easily moved in in this way of like easily excitable but also.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Like easy to move through things for other people.

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_02]: That is so that is so sweet thank you.

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah you're welcome.

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_02]: What was the hardest part of the survivor experience and the best part like everything from like the first day you sent into your video to today the hardest and the best.

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah two answers for the hardest part the hardest part was during actual survivor being in the rain and cold.

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Hands down like the hardest thing I've done in my life 12 days straight of wet and cold no breaks no clothes no jackets.

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And second answer is the social media afterwards and I think I was really really tough and maybe a little bit too sassy and too much of a did clap backs and things like that on social media is fun to lean at that's actually an piece of advice I've given to.

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_03]: The new people that I've talked to I've said social media is going to piss you off don't even lower yourself to respond you're going to want to be like well actually don't do that and somebody from a recent season was like thank you that was a great piece of advice because.

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I it would take too much energy so it was more that.

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And the best part probably cliche I don't know what all the other people have answered but it's like it is the people that I've met and it is the weird bubble that we're in it is it is being able to be a guest on a podcast that I listened to and was a fan of it is getting to go to a live event in

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Toronto and meet people from this season of survivor and talk to them and laugh with them and go on stage and say whatever silly thought comes to my mind about their fun episode like it is that I'm living my survivor fan dream.

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And then of course, like I say the people like, like literal best friends Christian who Bickey and others that are just like hugely important people in my life that I would not have met.

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's lovely.

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_02]: If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice on day one of the game what would it be.

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it would be to.

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Trust myself so and and.

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey one piece of advice would be like I would have myself learn all of my emotion regulation skills that I have now.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And do that be older and go through more life before you play but actually yeah but to not underestimate myself I think is the biggest thing because I think like in my game.

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's because of my unraveling of the game. People might think it's because I was emotional. I, I think it's because I got to a point of insecurity that I began to overplay because I was so meta about how I was being perceived.

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, I'm going to be perceived as the emotional young girl.

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And so now I'm going to overcompensate and I'm going to try to do all these big swings and those are going to fail and those are going to get you out of the game.

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And Mary Ann perfected the game that I wanted to and had intended to play and then got out there and was just too crazy where she was underestimated and that was the good thing where at the only at the end just defend yourself.

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously sometimes it doesn't work like we've seen like with Carolyn in the most recent season it doesn't always work.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But like that would be my number one piece of advice is like trust in yourself and don't underestimate yourself. Get yourself to the end of the game because like you can.

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then like do it.

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, do it. I know. Don't get in your own way.

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: The question for me that I've asked everybody is did you believe that you could win?

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I did when I was at home by myself.

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I got out there and then immediately was like, I don't think I don't know if I'm meant to win this game.

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I felt like unworthy. Like I was like, I don't think I'm a main character here. It was so weird.

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: What about you?

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, I don't. I mean, before I got cast, I thought I could win the show.

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Like as a fan, I was like, I can do that. I know I can do this.

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And so when I went through casting, when they would ask me, yes, I definitely did.

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And then once I got cast and then any time being out there, no, I was so afraid that I would just get voted out first.

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And like physically just like being so scared of every challenge and like I'm just going to get found out.

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm too like just like two week is what I thought.

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought I was going to be like an early first weirdo, bad at challenges boot.

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Me too.

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And so no, I didn't. I didn't think I could win.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_02]: That's my advice to myself gone in our own ways.

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: We did. We did.

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Other than Survivor, can you pick a favorite reality TV show?

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I see you. I know you keep up with some of them.

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I haven't even seen all the seasons.

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel a bit not real fans saying this, but Love Island UK.

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. I have not seen Love Island UK.

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It's very good. Yeah. Do you know the concept of Love Island?

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I know the concept. Is it the same in the UK version?

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. In the US and UK. Yeah. I would say season three and season five are really good seasons to start on for UK.

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So I've seen most of them, but I haven't seen the very first couple or I haven't seen seasons like one and then like a random one like four.

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I haven't seen you are getting a PhD.

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you can be a fan of something and not have swallowed every Scott.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, when I watch Love Island, I feel like I'm getting a PhD in Love Island and I feel all my like relationship researcher mind going off where I'm like, oh, well, she's pulling away because of.

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like watching it and whoever I watch it with gets so annoyed because they're like, can't we just enjoy this like trashy TV and not overanalyze that?

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, no, that's the fun of it. You get 50 episodes. It's so long.

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You have 50 episodes like watching people's relationships develop unravel, re get back together.

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's a social media after it, which I'm not so good at keeping up with.

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But for a couple of weeks, I'll go and see like who's still dating.

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I forget about them forever.

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But I love that about Love is Blind and there's Love is Blind Japan.

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Two of the couples spoiler alert just had babies.

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's been a few years and like the then two of the women on the show had babies like within weeks of each other.

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's my favorite.

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_03]: So cute. Yeah. One of my favorite Love Island couples has children now as well.

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, back to the parasocial relationships.

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh, I've been following you.

[01:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I've been watching you fall in love and now get married and now have babies.

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_02]: They're our friends.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: They're our friends.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a favorite place in the world that you've been to that you'd like to share with the listeners?

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: It is really the Philippines and I'm biased because I had an amazing dream about the Philippines last night.

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So I lived there in high school.

[01:15:26] [SPEAKER_03]: My mom is from there and I haven't been back in a long time actually looking at about probably 10 years.

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[01:15:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And everything about it is wonderful from, you know, Manila the city is hectic and a crazy city, but like the beaches and the nature there is absolutely amazing.

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So obviously that's such a far trip for our listeners.

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you are ever in Asia or Southeast Asia or have a way to have an easy trip to the Philippines, I definitely recommend it.

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think some people have a tendency to like go to Bali or Indonesia, which I have done or to Thailand, but I didn't go to Philippines.

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: One of my friends did and if I had had that advice, I would have hopped over there because heard lovely things.

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's wonderful.

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a book that you've read that you'd like to share with the listeners that changed your life?

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I had to think hard about it, but probably one of the first books that changed my life was all about love by Bell Hooks.

[01:16:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And I literally had to dig it out of my closet for the on the video, which is not going to be on the podcast, but I was like, I had to find it to like reconfirm.

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But Bell Hooks is a wonderful author and all about love is about the different ways in which we love each other as like a verb, love as a verb and an act that we do an act of care.

[01:16:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And that love is not only romantic love.

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Love is also for yourself and for your community and is just such a wonderful way of thinking about love and how it can be an active practice and an active verb and action in our life.

[01:17:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And definitely I've always been interested in love, which is why I'm now studying relationships.

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think this was probably the first book on love that I read that told me something new.

[01:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, cool. That's good. I love that.

[01:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that idea. Plus, I've heard Bell Hooks the name so many times and memes and all these things and podcasts I've listened to and I haven't read any of their books.

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a great one to get into. Yeah. If you want to read more for work, it will be linked in the show note.

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful. Do you have a favorite podcast or a podcast episode that you couldn't stop thinking about?

[01:17:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Funnily enough, I'm really not a big podcast person outside of like R.J.P.

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So but I've recently found a podcast that I love which is called You Talkin' Heads to My Talkin' Head and it's by Scott Akerman and Adam Scott.

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Scott Akerman's a comedian who just like comedy bang bang and Adam Scott is a lot of people know him as like Ben Wyatt from Parks and Rec or he's on Severance.

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And they go through Talking Heads which is a band, Talking Heads albums and talk about it and review it.

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like just a podcast that I've put on that has made me laugh so hard and Talking Heads is my favorite band.

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been a long time honestly since R.J.P.

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Like R.J.P. is that vibe, parasocial relationships where I listen and I'm like these are my friends.

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And I try to listen to like educational podcasts but they never really stick with me.

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But this one, if you are a fan of Talking Heads or you like that vibe of like it's just two buddies, they crack me up.

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I've literally laughed out loud while listening to them so very niche but if anybody listening is a fan of Talking Heads then I highly recommend it.

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good one. I like the niche suggestion.

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I guarantee you there's at least one person who's going to at least one whose life is going to be filled with joy because of that.

[01:19:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you listen to music? Do you have any songs that you listen to on repeat?

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a song on repeat right now.

[01:19:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I do have one. Let me tell you a funny anecdote. I'm making these fast rounds too long.

[01:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: No, sometimes they lasted like 30 minutes for everybody so you know us survivors we're a bit wordy.

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So me and my friends do this game. It's like a phone app that you can download.

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It's called Music League and you submit songs according to the rounds theme.

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And then it's all anonymized and put into an anonymous Spotify playlist and you listen to it and you vote through the app on your favorite songs.

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like a week's long league where you're voting on the best submissions.

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It is so fun.

[01:20:12] [SPEAKER_03]: So right now I've been listening to songs on repeat because we have our pride week coming up as we film this as we're record this as we're entering into June.

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_03]: We are submitting like LGBTQ songs and so I've been listening to Wiz.

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It's called Wiz, W-I-Z-Z by Cuckoo.

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how many songs could there be called by Cuckoo Chloe and Cobra.

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Cuckoo Chloe and Cobra it's like all tongue twister on repeat because I'm pretty sure that's what I'm going to submit.

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's explicit so if you listen to it, don't listen to it in front of anybody who has sensitive ears for explicit but it's very fun.

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a banger but I mostly just listening to it because I want to confirm that it's definitely going to win Music League this week.

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It's your submission. Have you won any weeks so far?

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I've won a few weeks.

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So last season when we did it, I came in second place overall which I was very proud of.

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_03]: This season I was at first for a while now I'm sitting at third because I had a couple rough weeks but a couple weeks I have gotten first place for my song.

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So pretty happy with it.

[01:21:25] [SPEAKER_03]: What a fun concept.

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll send it to you as well.

[01:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, although I know every like Harry Styles.

[01:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Anybody ever heard of him?

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_02]: That's about all.

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: That's like Street Dive and Harry Styles.

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty much all I listen to ever.

[01:21:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and last but certainly not least if anyone who is here who isn't already following you which seems crazy that they wouldn't be.

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_02]: What's your handles for people to find you?

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, on Twitter it is at Gabby Pascuzzi and on Instagram it is at Gabsguzzi which is written how it sounds.

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I know I don't have it consistent because I lost the Gabby Pascuzzi on Instagram because I forgot my login or something.

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh no.

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but happy to connect with anyone on there.

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and anything else you want to share people to know about who to vote for?

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Anything like that?

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, love your neighbors.

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Organize your communities.

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Love your communities and look out for each other out there in this world that is trying to turn us against each other.

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Just be good.

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, be kind and be good.

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I think that's actually one of the things that if you Google your name Gabby Pascuzzi the first thing that comes up is Twitter not survivor.

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So congratulations.

[01:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And the second one was and I wonder if it's the same like for you if you type it in for me the first one said Gabby Pascuzzi Twitter and Gabby Pascuzzi PhD.

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like damn girl you're out there like getting auto fills.

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, that's awesome. No I get Gabby Pascuzzi Instagram survivor amazing race husband Twitter LinkedIn PhD boyfriend age.

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: That's okay.

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Mine is Kellan Bechtel survivor annoying.

[01:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Stop.

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: No, maybe I bet it's not that on mine.

[01:23:30] [SPEAKER_03]: No, mine is mine for you says Instagram husband Twitter coaching.

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey coaching is up in there.

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_02]: That's exciting.

[01:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, your husband's up in there.

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody cares about my second husband.

[01:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: He's lovely.

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: He seems amazing from what I've seen online.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So cute and so fun and also annoying but I love him so much.

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He probably said the same thing about me.

[01:23:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Husbands are annoying.

[01:23:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well thank you for joining me today.

[01:24:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I loved catching up and talking about the survivor ride with you.

[01:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate you taking time to be with me today.

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, thank you, Kellan.

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_03]: This was so much fun.

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Wasn't that just so lovely?

[01:24:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Gabby really is a bright light.

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's so fun to reminisce with her about our experience together when we met and how both of us were in the middle of the tornado of survivor when we met the first time.

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But that both of us had an impact on each other.

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just so fun to reflect upon.

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_02]: If you like this podcast, please rate review, download, share, do the thing.

[01:24:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so thankful for all of you who are listening.

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_02]: This ride has been more than I ever expected and it is all because you all came here to listen.

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you.

[01:24:53] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next time.

[01:24:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to thank Rob Cisternino, Scott St. Pierre and the entire RJP crew for helping make this dream come true.

[01:25:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Jillian Goodheart is the editor.

[01:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Tricky Rice, thank you for the artwork.

[01:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: To all my guests, thank you for your time, honesty, bravery and vulnerability.

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thankful from the bottom of my heart.

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you to my dear friend from Survivor Ghost Island, Jacob Derwin, for allowing us to use his songs, Mira from Manhattan.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: One of my favorite songs of all time and one I played on repeat for an entire year while I recovered from my own survivor journey.

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_02]: To you, the listeners who have made it this far, thank you for giving me and these multifaceted guests time in your ears as our whole selves.

[01:25:36] [SPEAKER_02]: May each of your realities lead you down a road of peace, joy, community and a whole lot of adventure.

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And now here's Jacob Derwin with Mira from Manhattan.

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Mira from Manhattan.

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Chelsea from Chelsea.

[01:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Krista from Columbus.

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter much to me.

[01:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Now she's staring out the window.

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_01]: She's turning on the night.

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: She takes a pen to her new novel.

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And the airplane takes flight.

[01:26:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew you.

[01:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We're flying out to Dublin just to stop along the trail.

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Mira hops from there to Paris.

[01:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I ride to Belfast on the rail.

[01:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Now she's cheering in the winery.

[01:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm staring at the sea.

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Mira from Manhattan.

[01:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter much to me.

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You.

[01:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You.

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm making a podcast.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you even believe it?

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't.