Road to Reality | Cutting Your Losses with J’Tia Hart

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Hey everybody welcome back to Road To Reality. Today is episode four season two and features

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_04]: none other than the JTia Hart from Survivor Coguyon.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Before this podcast was even a twinkle in my eye, I dreamed of getting to sit down and talk to JTia

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_04]: about who she was behind

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_04]: the person that we saw on Survivor and

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow, is it an incredible life story?

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_04]: We start the conversation by getting into the incredible

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_04]: unforgettable rice moment on Coguyon.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_04]: How her amazing race application quickly turned into a spot on Survivor. Her experience becoming a nuclear engineer

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_04]: starting at an incredibly young age. She talks about women in STEM, surviving breast cancer and

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_04]: so much more. This conversation of course does not disappoint. I

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_04]: introduce to you the intelligent,

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_04]: adaptable and competitive JTia Hart.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_04]: JTia, I got to meet you in person for the first time at Bryson Wynn event

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_04]: just a few weeks ago.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I felt like we had met before

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: because we've talked, you know, I don't know. I guess we've only talked in games, huh?

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, we had, yeah, no, definitely was the first time we got to meet in person, but we had talked on social, on sequester.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. So yeah, that was so interesting.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's always interesting to me when I meet people from Survivor because I feel like I've known them.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So I always think that's an interesting thing.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you're like, oh, I'm meeting a stranger, but you're like, no, I actually know.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I feel like I know this person and that's very interesting because I know some of, you know, sometimes you feel like that when you're watching other shows.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But no, because we were both on Survivor, we have like this weird summer camp trauma bond or like sorority bond.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I was very happy to meet you.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You're super cool.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Not gonna lie, I didn't watch your season.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I think at that time I was very busy with small children or, I don't know, some other thing.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, look, that's even better.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It's probably better.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_04]: You probably like me better from my sequester run than my survivor run.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'll take it.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, right? You made the jewelry, right?

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I did. I did.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_04]: All right. Yeah, I got seventh place.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So I was lucky to have a really good experience.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I think I was not as well on my way to winning as I thought I did at the time, but I really, I was running with Dom and Wendell, you know, Wendell while I was out there.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I was I was a pawn in their winning scheme, which worked just fine.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a question for you.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you feel like a pawn in their scheme or is that the way it did?

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Did the way it came across on TV, was that the way you felt on the island?

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Or did you feel like, no, I had my own thing going?

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I definitely felt like I had my own thing going.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I definitely thought.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Everyone knew that they were the two biggest targets.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And once I got like the other biggest threats out of the way, which I was going along with them because we agreed on that.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_04]: There were eight of us left.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And I thought for sure I had enough numbers, six of us to go against the two monsters, the two top dogs to have six people.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And the six, the group of six was just not as strong as I thought it was.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't believe it.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I just got backed in.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_04]: So I didn't feel like a pawn.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I was voting with them on purpose because I was in agreement with them.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I thought these are the two top dogs.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Everyone's going to turn against them, of course.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And they didn't.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I was shocked.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was I was shocked.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that the way they played it on on TV too?

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Or did they play it like?

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I got a lot of like, oh, she was in Naviti Strong.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_04]: She was the name of my original tribe.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_04]: She was Naviti Strong.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_04]: She was blinded by that.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_04]: She which I was preaching Naviti Strong a lot because it was serving me to get to the point that I wanted to get.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't really believe it.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You you you say whatever narrative you need to say to get the vote you need to get at the time you need to get.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's what that is truly what I thought.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like playing like the mother bear of Naviti Strong, which didn't make me a threat.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought to Dom and Wendell, but Dom and Wendell knew all along.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_04]: They were using me.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_04]: They were using my sweetness to keep the my portion of the votes together.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And they went home with the money.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, look, everybody can't win.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I won in the experience, though.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I definitely feel like that.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So when I asked you if you wanted to come to a podcast, it's about being a human

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_04]: being who happened to be on Survivor and you said yes.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_04]: In what were their parts of your journey and of your life that you were like, yes,

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_04]: if I have the Survivor audience captive, this is what I want to talk about about Jatia.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so I you know what, Kellen?

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say I had a perfect plan about like, yeah, this is what I was going to do.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is really I was surprised flying by to see them a pan.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't originally apply for Survivor.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I applied for Amazing Race.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And so this was back in 2013.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: 2013, I think, is when I applied and I was an avid big

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: not big brother, amazing race fan.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I have a sister and I like have been telling her we need to apply for a long time

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and we finally at Thanksgiving shot a video.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: This was back when like you couldn't really edit a video on your phone very easily.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So I use my little production skills from middle school that I learned

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and when in Windows editor and we put together this really cute video

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and we used the the Osmond songs like I'm a little bit country

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: got a little bit rock and roll and she lived on the farm at the time.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So she was the country and I was the rock and roll

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: because I lived in the big city of Chicago and we sent it in

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and they called me back and asked me if I wanted to be on Survivor.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, sure, what the heck?

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, I was looking to change up my life.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So I applied once for Amazing Race.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: They said, would you like to do Survivor?

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Interested. I said, yes.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: They said, OK, we'll make a video of Survivor.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I'm not doing all that editing again.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So I had a friend who worked in that kind of thing.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: He gave me a kid of his who I paid like $50 to and he put together the video

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: of me in my apartment in Chicago and out at a couple sites

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: like the Bean and stuff like that.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And he said it's on YouTube. Did you put it on YouTube?

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you know that was on YouTube?

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I knew it was on YouTube.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I did not put it on YouTube.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I wonder that's something that's come up in these is like some people's

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_04]: audition videos are showing up online and they they put it there.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And other people didn't know that the audition tape was out there.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I did know it doesn't bother me.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have I still have my original one from the Amazing Race.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I put it out there one day, but I just wanted to do something new.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I had a job.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I was out of school, not too far out of school, but I had a job.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_02]: The job was kind of boring.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I was, you know, at the lowest rung of the ladder and I wanted to mix it up.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's why I went on.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I had watched Survivor.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I ain't no lie.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I had only a iota of what I was getting into.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And like I didn't know when the merge happened, you know, all this kind of stuff.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I did take survival classes.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I could swim.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a super song somewhere.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, they ain't going to let me die.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But I knew I wasn't a super strong swimmer and I will tell you, I thought I would do OK.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I was like, I might win probably not.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I know how to figure out odds.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, but you know what?

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to give it my best try and I'm going to do something.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Something's going to happen.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That's all that's going to happen.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to happen.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I went out there and I was like, you know, if I get in the right

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_02]: situation, I can take it.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I never thought I was going to get out there and win all the

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_02]: challenges and do all these people.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew I was in trouble.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: When they put the tribes together, I was like, oh, yes.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, this is not going to go well.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was the youngest woman on my tribe.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Whenever you are the youngest one on your tribe, that spells trouble.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. How old were you at the time?

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Younger. No, I was.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I was 32, 31, 32.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: OK. Yeah.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was getting really physically fit.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I wasn't like running marathons, but you know, I could run a mile in.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And you were training for the amazing race.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_04]: You're you're in pretty good shape.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. So I was healthy.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I was fit, all of those things.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I knew I was in trouble when I saw my tribe.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was basically all downhill from there.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how you felt when you saw your tribe.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But mine, I was like, bro, bro.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It was so lucky.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_04]: We were two tribes of 10, so I just had so much more space to hide.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I always feel like that the three tribes start is so much scarier,

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_04]: because we went in that we did eventually go into three tribes.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_04]: But we did a tribe of eight and then I was or 10.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I was on a tribe of eight and then I was on a tribe of five, I think.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: So those small try, I cannot imagine starting the game with that few

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_04]: that few people to use as shields and to the clicks can't be that fluid.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like either you're in or you're out.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't have any envy for those folks starting on small tribes.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. So I basically hit the ground and I knew it wasn't going to be good.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And also, like my tribe, our tribe was so conniving, like from the jump,

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: nobody was like trying to be helpful.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody like was out immediately to backstab.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: There was no kumbaya and I tried to do some fake kumbaya.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So some of my like ridiculous optimism that they show on the show

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: was me trying to be like, hey, guys.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, let's let's do this.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's do this together.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's pretend for a little bit.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody come on. Right.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: There was none of that in my tribe.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody wanted to be friendly.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And so some of the stuff that they show me being like Dulu Lou about is like,

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, because nobody's like nobody wanted it was not fun.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I tried to get the girls to do our hair like

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, do I care if I have the same hair style with everybody else?

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_02]: No, you know, but I need something to try to make these people

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_02]: make it seem like I'm friendly, especially after, you know,

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, hey, nobody said anything about building a shelter.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, well, somebody got to say it.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Here go me volunteering, put my hand up

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_02]: come to find out, pass me how to do a whole, you know, she was a rancher.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_02]: She said.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Me in my big mouth.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That would be helpful.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, so unlike the natural leader part where you start to step up,

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_04]: is that something that like since you were young, have you been the

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_04]: you said you have a sister?

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Have you been the the leader who's putting the groups together?

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_04]: School projects, all that stuff kind of all through grad school.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_04]: This is your whole your whole life has been being the leader.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Yes.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So, um, yes, my whole life has been being the leader.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, and so I wanted to come.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew I had to do something.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew I was going to have a target on my back.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And like there was this thing where in our somebody had to volunteer

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_02]: to go to the island first and Garrett did it.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And that did not work out well for him.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And so like I felt like I tried to tamp down being a leader thing

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: by not volunteering for that.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But then I immediately got to camp and started talking about

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02]: building a shelter, even though we knew had somebody who knew how

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: to do that stuff who said nothing.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and that like went to shit.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I felt like I had to step it up at the challenge

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: for the puzzles and had a panic attack, a full on panic attack.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, after that, I was like, whatever, it's not going

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: well for me.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't really turn this around.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so let's just make it fun.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_04]: So where in your life, like up to that point has the, like

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_04]: the leadership take initiative?

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you saw in your video, you left your childhood home at 15

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_04]: where so obviously this flip side of the whatever we can say

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_04]: how it didn't go great for like, yeah, you didn't win survivor

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_04]: and whatever, but in life, obviously taking initiative

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_04]: and being a leader has gotten you so far in so many amazing ways.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_04]: So can you talk about some of the stuff before you went on

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_04]: survive survivor where having this initiative, being the

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_04]: leader, speaking up for yourself served you really well?

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess before survivor, what really drove my life is

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to live a big life and do things differently from

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_02]: the people that I knew.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So I grew up in Florida, a really big family.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I have nine brothers and sisters and I was the youngest.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So and I grew up with one brother and one sister in a household

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: with my parents.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I always wanted to differentiate myself.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And also, you know, we grew up in a working class

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: neighborhood, which, you know, I'm very grateful because

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: it taught me a lot of things, but I was ready to go.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I was ready to move on, do bigger things.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I really like to read when I was younger.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I read about all these interesting places you could go

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and things you could do.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wanted to go and do those things.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: That wasn't what people was doing in my neighborhood.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was ready to go.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I always did really well in school.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I put together a ploy basically to graduate from high

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: school early.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I was already one year ahead.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I had already started school early and skipped a grade.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I was going to graduate when I was 16.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I just doubled up on my classes and went to night

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: school and summer school.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's how, you know, you're doing summer school for algebra.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, I want to learn this.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think like somebody else was going to night school.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, I might as well too.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have anything else going on.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And ended up graduating and going to college, starting college

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: when I was 15.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was very independent, very, you know, take initiative,

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, to get all these things going.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is basically my personality.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Anybody who knows me knows like, yeah, I'm always the person

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: who's like going to lead the group project to my detriment.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it can't be to your detriment.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Look where you are today, not always at least.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Not always.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think one of the.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it says, you asked I chose intelligent, adaptable and competitive.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Still three words to describe me to this day.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I think my survivor experience, one of the hardest parts

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: of my survivor experiences is kind of facing

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: not being as good.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't want to say not being as good as I not living up to my potential.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll say that not living up to my potential.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I really, like I said, I'm super competitive.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to do well.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Most things I really do do well.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I don't.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And this was the sometimes I don't.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And it being on such a big stage was a lot for me.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it just made me better.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It like, you know, it's like the what is that stronger?

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that the person, the angular song, like whatever?

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it just set me up for a comeback.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And also it helped me figure out when to cut your losses.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Like OK, all right.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes you have to cut your losses and like know that this ain't for you.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And slowly tiptoe out of it.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I mean, at a certain point in time, I wasn't doing well.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just like, you know what, I'm just going to cause chaos

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: because if not, you know, then I definitely don't want to be bad

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and then go quietly like, you know.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's so the the cause chaos piece of it almost worked.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I think people I think people forget that potentially is like

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_04]: it was so close.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_04]: It was it made sense, the chaos piece in and of itself.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And as you said, I learned from survivor to sometimes cut my losses.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Are there any examples in your life when you came back that

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_04]: you were like, hey, now I'm going to get out early?

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Correct. So actually my job when I got back from survivor,

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I I just met my husband right before I went on survivor.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we were getting married and I was like, you know what,

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I want more for my job.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to say I didn't like it, but I wanted more.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, why am I just staying at this job?

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, it was one of the first full time jobs that I had.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, it's a good job.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It pays well. And it did pay really well.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's hard for you to take that leap and say, you know,

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I want more and give up this nice, safe, comfy branch, you know,

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and and reach for the other branch when you know you might fall.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So that is what it gave me like, yeah, look, I committed

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: humiliated myself on TV saying that I am so great and I'm so smart,

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: but then couldn't figure out a puzzle or couldn't do this or allegedly on TV.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, you know what?

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm still picking. I'm still working it out.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what it taught me resilience, really.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I met you. You told me what you said to your husband.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you tell if you feel comfortable, tell the story of the timing

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_04]: of meeting your husband, your lovely husband and what you said to him before you left?

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I just loved that story.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So I met my husband when I was in the casting process for a survivor.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And so they have me sign an NDA.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: They said I couldn't tell anybody.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I told him that I was going on a long term work assignment to Africa.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And then just a couple of weeks, right?

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you just started dating him.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah. A couple of weeks of dating him and I was supposed to.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even think we had our date, but I would leave like within two months.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what they told me.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And so finally it was like two weeks from the time I was going to leave.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I can't. We were talking about getting married.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I can't leave and not tell him.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So I ended up telling him that he had to sign all these NDAs.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_02]: He thought it was wonderful.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, oh, I'm so excited.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember when I first met him when we met and you know,

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I am, I would say a high strung person.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I met him, he said, oh, I like women who are challenged.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, ooh, I was like, this is my man.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, he gets that I go hard.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: He appreciates it.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's all about it.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So he was on board.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: He was there. He picked me up from the airport when I came home from Survivor.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_02]: He went with me to the finale back when we have finales.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's hung out. You met him like he hangs tough.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so and he likes the, you know, zealust

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: fame that we get and now like our kids, our kids are meeting

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: like some of the survivors and I finally let my eight year old daughter

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: start watching Survivor.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: She was like, I want to watch your season.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, no, never.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's not going to have.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_04]: She's going to be old enough soon enough to find it on her own.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Jatia, you might have to walk her through it.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Like she's going to have to learn how to work at DVR or go on CBS.com or something.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but I'm not showing it to her when you.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not up for this smack talking from an eight year old.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_04]: It'd probably be the worst.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_04]: It would probably be worse than anything that was ever said on Twitter.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I think coming from an eight year old daughter.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably why didn't you just put the flag on there?

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: She was right there.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, OK, girl.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_04]: So you have a daughter, you have two kids.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You have your daughter who's eight and a son who's six years old.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And your son is six.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_04]: So that would have you would have how long in between when you got back?

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So you just met Graham.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_04]: You're like weeks to going out to Survivor.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_04]: You're like, I'm going to Africa just kidding.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going on Survivor.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think you had said you told him, you're like, this is the man

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to marry like in these few weeks.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like that's why I was like, I had to tell him about Survivor.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, because we didn't marry.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess he probably thought we were crazy, but not only did I tell him

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: we were getting married, but I told him what date we were getting married.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Like the exact date which was ended up being the date that you got married.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course. Absolutely.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So and so in my family, my grandparents, my and my parents

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_02]: have gotten married on March 19th.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So I told them I want to get married on, I think we met in 2013.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, OK, I'm going to give you a year to get the ring and get engaged.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And then a year after that, March 19th, 20, 25, 2015 is when I want to get married

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and it happened.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: He it took him till April of the next year.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_02]: He almost got done.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But it took him April of the next year to get the ring together.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was actually when Survivor was airing.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: OK. Yes.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was engaged to him when it was airing and we went to the finale.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And then a year later, we got married in

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Florida and like one of the good things

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I like about being on Survivor is that like People Magazine had covered my wedding.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, nice.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was really cool.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I mean, if I didn't do Survivor, they wouldn't put me in People Magazine,

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I think, and us weekly.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was another cool perk.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And like when my first child was born, it was on People as well.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's cool.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Like people, the general public are concerned to this day,

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_02]: people at work are always asking me about Survivor and stuff like that.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So so that works too.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, honestly, the further I get away from the experience, the more I like it.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, OK. Tell me about that.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Tell you how the further you get away, the more you like it.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Tell me more.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, because I was pissed.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like you I got a harsh edit.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I did harsh things, though.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, let's be honest.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I, you know, it was my first time being on TV

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and being in the environment and so you don't know how it's going to come off.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, I didn't know what happened in the rest of the season.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, until later.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't know how my, you know, actions played into the bigger.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I had her bits and pieces or whatever.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was a little harsh.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, that was when Twitter and was new.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And so people was wild on Twitter.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I got a lot of comments about being, you know, she's so stupid.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the thing that kind of hit was like

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_02]: questioning whether I could do my job.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I was they were like, oh, she must be stupid.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_02]: How how does her employer feel?

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, my employer feels good because I'm great at my job.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And but it took me a while to process that and to get to that point.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, you're a person on the internet.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Get out of here.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had to think about it.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like anybody who in my real job would come up to me and be like,

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you could do your job because I watched the Viper and I

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: saw you. I was like, oh, they have to be 13 or 14 or just not understand how that works.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And to have just such this because what did you say?

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I did big things or I did.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what word you use, but

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I did loud things on the show or whatever.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And then to have just that portion, of course, every single confessional

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_04]: and every single thing is going to play into that narrative, which they used.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And is obviously it happens.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Like people are like, is that did did somebody tell you to do that?

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And all this stuff like, no, you did that and you came up with it on your own.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_04]: But it is just a portion of who you were on that day.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And to have then your entire quote unquote survivor identity be around this

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_04]: piece that is more, is it fair to say, like out of control from who you are in real life?

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. Oh, I mean, so this is the thing at work, you know, I would never take.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, you're not dependent on food for work or whatever.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But do I make big moves and risky moves?

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. If you're playing a game with me and I'm not winning

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm mad, I might flip the board like, let's be honest, I might flip the board.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's not it.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not I might take my ball to go home and be mad about it.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And apologize later.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's not unheard of.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I play games with my kids and I'm still very intense, you know, but I know it's a game.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So so yeah, that is the thing.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, I like my experience.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I still, you know, I did this promotional opportunity out at Chicago State

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: University with Survivor.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So I appreciate that a big thing that I've been into for a very long time

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: is really advocating for black people and women in the sciences,

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: technologies, engineering, mathematics.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So I thought one of the things about going on Survivor is that no matter what,

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: how I did, people were going to see a black woman as an engineer on Survivor

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and good, bad or ugly.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they say there's there's no such thing as bad press.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: There's not bad exposure when you're a boss

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: ass bitch, you know, so even if I look like that on TV, you can say, well,

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: if if you don't like me, you could say, well, I could do it better than her.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Go do it. And if you do like me, then yeah, great.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So either way, you see an example of somebody in that space

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: that you don't usually see.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was also a good thing that came out.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I remember like being like, wait, what is what?

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And googling like about what?

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_04]: What does she do with the nuclear engineering?

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Like how do you become a nuclear engineer?

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_04]: What that's and since then, you know, as a fan following you,

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_04]: certainly a voice that has brought attention to women, black women in STEM.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's using that platform to spread awareness about that idea,

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_04]: even like at your finals sequester question,

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_04]: like bringing that in of like, can you name a woman scientist and all the stuff?

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: It's amazing to use the platform for good.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And there are so many ways that you've done that with your stem,

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_04]: the attention in the STEM community.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You have a nonprofit about the STEM community.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_04]: You want to talk about that?

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So I during the pandemic, the pandemic, while I met you playing sequester,

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I also did a web series about what black women in STEM called STEM Queens.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's on YouTube, so it's an eight episode series.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And I turned it into a nonprofit.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that was also something like that I got into.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I would say it was more exposed to it because of survivor,

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, how you do all the podcasts and everything else when you get off

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and the press.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that kind of increased my exposure to that realm.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Really, after survivor for the first five years,

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't do anything with survivor.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Part of it was a healing process.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Part of it was I got married and then

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_02]: it filmed in 2013.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I got engaged in 2014 and it aired in 2014.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I got married in 2015, had a baby in 2016 and had a baby in 2018.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So that brought me pretty much all the way like seven years past

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: before I could think about doing any anything else.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually did before I had my first child got pregnant with my first child.

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_02]: They asked me to come back.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Was it a second chance?

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It was the one where you voted.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, second chance.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so I was in the casting for second chance

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and there was another one that I was in the casting for.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, I'm still just as stupid and gunko, you know,

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_04]: and still open to it is something that you would like to do again.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I would not say no.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I also not promise I would be any better.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I think just as interesting, though, I'll tell you that, Kellen.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say, girl, I don't think you can be better.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Girl, like I might not be better in your terms,

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: but I'm going to be just as interesting.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And isn't that why you come to watch the show so you can see interesting things?

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that's that's always my line.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, I'm older, I'm slower.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm definitely not, you know, hell, if I couldn't,

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_02]: my swimming is not gotten better.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to go ahead and sit down and I'll be like,

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_02]: unless you want me to die, I will be on this little bitch here.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm left at it's 15.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_04]: You graduate. You've graduated high school.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to college.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you choose engineering right away?

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_04]: How did you go from 15 wanting to go to college

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and then getting into engineering and then nuclear engineering?

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So short answer is I was bribed and influenced.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And so one of the things, of course,

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_02]: being very young and going off to college,

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_02]: my mom wanted me to have some structure.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So she said, OK, if you're going to go off,

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_02]: then I want you to join ROTC.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So at least I know that somebody will be you'll have a community.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good career path, you know, you'll be up disciplined.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So that and she was the one who said,

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I was a business major and she was like,

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, you're good in math and science.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, why don't you try engineering?

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, if you get good grades, I'll give you a car.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, who say Lex?

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, all right.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That's all I needed.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So basically that was an engineering because my mom convinced me to.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I was going on through engineering and it was it was just OK.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, even though I was an engineer major,

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't really know what I wanted to do.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Like during the summers, I didn't have engineer internships.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I would just goofing off being like a camp

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_02]: counselor during the summer, hanging out.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I went for a summer experience in ROTC

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and they took me out on a submarine.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they have this four week experience

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and you go and you see different sides of and I was Navy.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So Navy ROTC and it took me out on a submarine.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, this is cool.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_02]: This was the first thing that clicked.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And the cool thing about it was that we were on a submarine

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and it was powered by nuclear and it also had nuclear missiles.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, OK, so that's the good part, the power.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the bad part, the weapons.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, well, who are the people who are making sure,

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, things aren't going wrong.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, oh, that would be a nuclear engineer.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So then that's what I went to grad school for.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So I moved from Florida to Illinois.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_04]: How old were you at that point?

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I was 19 or 20 something.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I've been in Illinois pretty much ever since

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to the University of Illinois.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So down in the cornfields.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: While I was down there in the cornfields,

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: my little part time job was modeling.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so that's interesting.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you knew this, Kela, and I'm about to drop some some knowledge.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't usually talk about this here.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm ready.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_04]: But I said, I'm ready.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You're ready.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So my mother is going to kill me.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I was in Playboy Girls of like the Big Ten.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You remember when Playboy was like a thing when I do.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So what had happened was I did this again, boredom, boredom, big splash.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, I'll do this.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody told me, you know, this was kind of like, oh, you're cute.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have a problem with nudity.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I ain't seen a big deal with it.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I'm going to get some cute pictures out of it.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And if the pictures come out good, then I can take them to the modeling

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_02]: agency and I can start modeling.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So people did find out.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Surprise that I am post for Playboy and

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: but I did start modeling.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that was good for me because I was doing like little side jobs,

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_02]: not making a lot of money like waitressing and like modeling.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I made like $1,600 a day, which was a ton of money.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, yeah.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. So so I could work a day or two.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_02]: During the month and, you know, make as much as I was waitressing

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and doing stuff like that.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of did that all the way through grad school.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, there my life is a lot of big splashes

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and maybe what people would think are not so wise choices,

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_02]: but somehow they work for me.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: That is the story of my life.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, that's interesting.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely. Thank you for sharing.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, get I mean, get the money girl.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_04]: It's yeah.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Get the money. Yeah.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's very interesting because nowadays,

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_02]: like how I post or Playboy is not even like a thing.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But tell it, I think you're around my age, girl.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, it was a shocker.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was before Twitter, Facebook was just starting to get big.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So to see a picture of somebody that you knew, it was a big deal.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_04]: So this was maybe like the first the trial run for,

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_04]: when you said boredom leads to big splash,

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_04]: leads to the world having a say and what you're doing with your life.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_04]: It was sort of like the trial run for the stint on survivor.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So but you have to gossip in the old fashioned way

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and which is to tell somebody who would tell somebody who would tell me

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_04]: instead of just like cut out the print and like send it in the mail or

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you know how we used to gossip?

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so what I was saying was asking about you because he said that it,

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, stuff like that. Yes. Yes.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the old way before it was Twitter and before it was even Twitter

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: or something like that.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was interesting.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So I've always like done risque, I would say things.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, less so now.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, the thing is less so in that way maybe.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_04]: But how has it like built, I think women, most women, many women,

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_04]: or I should just speak for myself, strive to every single day,

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_04]: get closer to giving less of a shit about what people think about us

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and letting outside opinions of what beauty is, what standards are,

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, beauty standards, how we should quote unquote behave,

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_04]: how she would show up as women in the world and be judged.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_04]: So as you went through those experiences,

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_04]: what has it done to build your foundation of how you

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_04]: respond to when people have an opinion on how you live your life?

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's funny because I do do these things that are kind of outside

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_02]: the norm and outside mainstream and shocking at the time.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And what I always realize is that people have short memories

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: like you didn't even know unless I told you wouldn't be right.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. People have short memories.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know what?

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It what ultimately matters is what you think of yourself.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_02]: The whole Playboy thing for me was like an experience.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And also I was like, you know what? I'm black.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I am an engineer. I look good.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and maybe I'm not going to say Playboy is definitely

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, has exploited women and done all that.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But for me, it was celebrating my beauty, how I am

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and how I look different from the things you usually see there.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I think when I closed, I had natural hair, you know?

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So I felt like it was very celebratory, you know?

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I was using it to get to another platform and that sort of thing.

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And I should have known like I should have I did draw a little bit

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: from those days too, because I mean, there were definitely people whispering about me.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But look, again, when you a boss ass bitch, people go and whisper always.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to whisper if you know, whatever you're doing.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So if they talk and let them talk, that's what I would say my advice.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure you have taken that before, Kellen, that, you know, let them talk.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You talk, I do my thing.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I get to where I need to go.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm getting I'm getting better. It was it was a

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I struggled a lot with a lot of the internet hate stuff.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I really had a hard time.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who didn't struggle.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, I don't care how like thick skin you think you are.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_02]: When people are like go tearing you for shreds on the internet, it hurts.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Like an only thing you can do is just distance yourself for it.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard. It's hard.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and you think like if it happened to somebody else,

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_02]: you just look, oh, just try it off.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing but it's a lie.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: What did they say about you?

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_02]: What could they possibly have to say about me?

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, girl, just Google it.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_04]: You'll see. Oh, I'm just so annoying.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I ruined this season and all that all that kind of stuff.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of surprisingly, I don't know that I hate women, which is just crazy to me.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_04]: It was I don't even know.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what about me made people so mad.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_04]: My edit was pretty.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Same right? Meaty Hooker.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think just being like a woman who had a voice.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I was pretty hard on Dom.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you met Dom, but like during Final Tribal,

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, can you let other people speak?

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I had a bit of an attitude, a quote unquote,

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_04]: what some people would think of as an attitude, I guess.

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, Middle America who watches Survivor a lot,

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_04]: like once women to sit there, be quiet and look pretty.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And so any woman who does anything other than that typically

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_02]: gets quite a bit of background to the story.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I think so.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: No main character energy for the ladies, right?

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I think so. Yeah.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's changing, you know, over time.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the new era feels a little bit different and all of that.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_04]: So and I look back at like the first 10 seasons of Survivor

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_04]: in the way that the women are portrayed and that sort of thing is

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_04]: we've come a long way.

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the peanut butter.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You remember that the Amazon peanut butter and crotch shots?

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or something like that.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember that.

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I do think I do like that the new era of Survivor

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: is is more willing to give people the benefit of it out in the edits

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and understand that when, you know, everybody can be a hero in their own way.

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And you don't have to be so harsh on people

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_02]: because people will be harsh enough on themselves.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_02]: What is this new one?

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_02]: The guy I can't remember like Jolinsky.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, Jolinsky, even though, you know,

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_02]: forty several, you know, several all that kind of stuff

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: is it was good heartache like we know like that was done.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, it's still funny.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they may get funny, you know, or I can't think of the guy's name,

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_02]: John who was crying all the time.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Who was just like.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Winning a million hearts.

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so great. I love that stuff.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't understand why people like go crazy,

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_04]: like disliking somebody for creating that amazing good TV.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Like isn't this exactly what we want?

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Watch is what I want watching Survivor.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I want moments like

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_04]: when he fell to his knees and

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_02]: why has God or said he on this island, honey?

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Like didn't everybody feel it like that?

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I feel your pain.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you don't want to say it,

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: but he said something to everybody like, how the fuck did I get here?

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, who did I piss off?

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Like so, you know, I like seeing that.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And instead of making fun of him for it, I love that they were like,

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: yes, yes, this is how people feel.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So I thought he was a great character.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, so it's very interesting to me.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been like in this new season.

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm trying to get to the question.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, no, no, no.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll take you to I'll take you.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll take you through the rapid brown question.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So you already you already worked ahead and got some of them in.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_04]: So we're we're good here.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_04]: But I just usually go through.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_04]: You can answer as rapidly as you'd like.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_04]: You said question one was how many times you applied for Survivor?

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Zero. You applied for amazing.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought we were just supposed to hit the questions and nothing else.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Girl, I'm listening to you and stop taking over.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_04]: You're fine. You're totally fine.

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, so earlier you referenced in your survivor bio, you chose

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_04]: intelligent, adaptable and competitive as the three words that describe you.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_04]: You identify with those three.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Is there any you want to take out?

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Add. No, I think they'll still really describing.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny. I did have you.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You're you're a leadership, you know, coaching person.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I did strength finders.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Are you are you familiar with string finders?

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I have heard of it.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I think I've actually done it.

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what my results are off the top of my mind.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's funny because I took it.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I think being successful in life is like knowing yourself.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is something that, you know, Survivor helped me with.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And knowing yourself and knowing, again, what's good for you and when to cut your losses.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So I still think I am intelligent, adaptable, competitive.

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Like my strength finders are like command, competitive communication.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Woo, winning over others.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And I can't remember my last one, but it has something to do with influencing too.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I try to, in my life,

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: find situations that use those strengths and avoid situations that don't.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: That is that is like my mantra in life.

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I know what I'm good at.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I know a good box that I fit in and I try to stay in that box

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and and maximize that box.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And it helps maximize, you know, my joy too.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's that's really what I've let my life.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what's led me into like leadership positions, you know,

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_02]: this command and communication and adaptable.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I if I had to sit down and program, I could.

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I would die inside.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you need me to tell somebody about somebody's programming

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and make them excited about their programming, I can do that, you know?

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And that uses the skills that I have.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so interesting with the STEM mind, the math and science

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_04]: and getting to combine that with this outward communicative style.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_04]: It's I don't know.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't met too many engineers that really lead

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_04]: with a lot of outward communication, command and leadership.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_04]: So cool. What a fun, what a fun match.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's what I said.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So when I when that clicked for me, I was like, oh, I'm about to do this.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So one of the things that I figured this out

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_02]: when I after I came back from Survivor and I left my job

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_02]: because that job really was like kind of one on one

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_02]: down in the weeds, writing papers.

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I hate writing.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So I went and I got a job that was a lot involved science tech.

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It was more fast paced.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a lot of reading, analyzing and then disseminating and summarizing.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that it was, you know, working with the team of engineers

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: where they did the deep analysis and it was my job to kind of sift through it

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and get the finer points.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, it was in national security.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So that gave me a sense of wanting to go to work

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: because if I was going to work and no offense to, you know,

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: like consumer product goods, but if I was going to work trying to sell pop

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_02]: tarts, I don't think my heart would be in it.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But when I go to work and I'm defending America

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_02]: or I'm doing something or building some technology that makes our world safer

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_02]: or our energy sources safer, that that gets me going.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Having that purpose, like the passion and purpose piece tied to it for real

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_04]: and just being self aware enough to not put yourself in a box

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_04]: where it's not meaningful to you.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_04]: So some people don't ever get that sorted in life and live

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_04]: quite miserably in.

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_04]: So I imagine this makes, hey, you just said you're getting ready to go to

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Idaho, Idaho for work.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So with this passion piece and actually caring about what you do

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_04]: does it makes getting in the car and going to Idaho for a bit?

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Not so not so bad, right?

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. So yes, I mean, I have been in situations where like

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_02]: if I worked for Google, I'd have like a shiny new office and, you know,

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_02]: a big old expense budget and stuff like that.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But I work for I'm a US government contractor.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So I fly to Idaho, you know, and I work in Idaho because that's where we can

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_02]: build reactors and that's where we can build technology at scale.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is so cool and important to me that I'm willing to do that.

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So it helps. It makes me feel good.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It makes me, you know, get up and go to work.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is always a good thing to not just struggle through that entire time.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I do think that is like a common thing with being on survivor.

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of us have come back and have just decided not to settle

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_04]: for a miserable kind of grind life.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And I haven't quite sorted exactly what that piece of it is.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_04]: If it's the island part, if it's the going on the TV, if it's just the

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_04]: grandiosity of it, do you have any idea of why that switch in you

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_04]: is like I'm not going to go back to the grind?

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_04]: We a lot of us have had that.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that you have such unique experiences

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and you can see what's possible.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they basically set up a whole little mini city, you know,

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_02]: have the smallest of details.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Like one of the details that was kind of interesting to me, you know,

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_02]: how many you know, how much paperwork you feel out to go on survivor.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Right? Right.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It is like ridiculously endlessly like I don't even remember writing

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_02]: some of these like what are your favorite treats?

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. And then when I got off the island,

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_02]: they handed me a bag dirty in the back of the production truck

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_02]: of Doritos, Oreos and Mentos.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And I went to town with dirty hands with look,

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_02]: those are the freshest Mentos, the fresh maker.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I was on it. OK.

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh my God, I can't even believe you remember that.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But like, I don't know if I realized how detailed people could be

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_02]: about little things like the psychology test and knowing

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_02]: like what pushes your buttons.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I swear the people on Survivor Red

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_02]: would push my buttons and did exactly that.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, I can't get it up as Garrett Adelstein

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_04]: and put it right next to you.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That producer knew what to say to get me mad at him

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_02]: because I remember writing down like I hate when people like insult

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_02]: my intelligence or think that I'm not smart because I look like

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_02]: what I look like or something like that.

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And she said, hmm, he's treating you like you couldn't.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You couldn't be as smart as him.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, girl, look.

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, is that to here I go?

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I'm on it.

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm on it. He ain't going to eat today.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So. But I guess the fact that they wrote that

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_02]: that I wrote that down and they noted it.

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So I learned about like being strategic and being meticulous,

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_02]: not necessarily and also from the people on the beach.

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Like when I jumped on the beach and then

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Spencer knew every single fact about survival.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, oh, no, no, we merge at this day.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, you study.

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you took notes. You did all this.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, I'm just coming out here like I know we merge at some.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_02]: No, he had a checklist note.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think you get exposed to that,

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_02]: like how much can go into these things?

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you're like, why am I not putting this in?

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, why am I not going as hard as this?

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's kind of the thing.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_02]: That was a very long explanation.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's so many pieces of it.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so interesting meeting other people

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_04]: who do look at the world differently

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_04]: and have have a different

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_04]: literal different version of how I got to where you are

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_04]: and what's happening at the same time.

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think for me, it opened up a lot of new ways to think

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_04]: to be. And also, it was just so nice to be away

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_04]: from the grind of it all, I think in a way

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_04]: that I think that's part of it too.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_04]: We just got to leave our phones behind as crazy

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_04]: as the experience may have been for us to be offline

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_04]: and to just be with ourselves.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I think is something that we all crave,

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_04]: leaving the leaving that experience as well.

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So because you were on the jury, so say after you,

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you didn't get a free jury trip.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And so after Survivor, they took us to Thailand

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and we were like off in Thailand for a good,

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say 15, like three weeks or so, almost three weeks.

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That was amazing. And it was free.

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it wasn't like super luxury,

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_02]: but I didn't have to pay for food.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I got massages every freaking day.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It was it was an amazing experience.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I haven't had honestly a vacation.

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't the people I would want to go with,

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_02]: but the experience was amazing.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I also got to meet some really good people.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And so and became really good friends,

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_02]: like with Bryce, Bryce is a really good friend of mine.

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was very interesting to see his perspective.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_02]: We have definitely rubbed off on each other.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So I like I am big into finances.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I talked to him, I be talking his ear off, what you say?

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And what your credit score looking like, we talking about that.

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, has upped my fashion game.

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And so like we talk that, you know, all these different things

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that I don't think I was necessarily, you know,

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_02]: like you do better when your friends are better.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you are exposed to experiences that are, you know,

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of higher caliber, as far as you want.

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think, Ellen?

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely the grandiosity of it.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was that I didn't get to go to Thailand

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_04]: and have a massage every day,

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_04]: but there I still was at Ponderosa for a week.

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, meeting new people who I yeah,

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's just the same of earlier.

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_04]: It's meeting new people who have experienced life

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_04]: differently than I have.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And to see all the different options of like one person was a model,

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_04]: another person was this and not just our jobs, but where we came from.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think it just opened up my mind.

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And honestly, just the experience of it coming together

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_04]: where I was like, Holy shit, thousands of people want to do this.

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And if I can get chosen to do this, which I never thought I could

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_04]: never in a million years when I made that video

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_04]: did I think I would be chosen?

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, what else can I do in life if I just try?

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's exactly.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's that it's that like you can you can do this.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You could put this together.

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I think one time we were filming a challenge

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and I was like, oh my gosh, that is a lot of cameras.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, who knew who thought that we had to have a camera here?

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like that's a lot of like meticulous and stuff like that.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think of the people every person that I have met on survivor.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I think survivor casting does an amazing job.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And everybody has a story.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Every anybody can be a compelling winner.

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't pick people who if they won, they'd like.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So that makes them pick interesting people.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Certainly. Yes. I love the.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I feel like I've been looking for that phrase

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_04]: when people ask me about this podcast.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That's it. Every person who's on survivor could

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_04]: has the life story to be a compelling winner.

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And we only get to hear one of those stories.

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_04]: This is where we hear the rest of the stories.

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you just changed all of my marketing for this.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_04]: The show. Thank you.

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll give you as many royalties as I can ever.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to be successful, honey,

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and for you to have abundance and all of that.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So whatever I could do to help, I'm always look, I can talk.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the one thing I got.

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I can talk and stuff like that.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But and also I love talking to survivor people.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I get, you know, it's like a weird crazy summer camp

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_02]: that we were all in, even if it is an instant bond.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_04]: If we choose to, I've had lots of great experience.

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And it sounds like now that you had that time of

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_04]: becoming getting married, becoming a mom and all that stuff.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And you're coming back into having these survivor community moments.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's something that is what we make it and will be here for us

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_04]: if we need it the upside of the of the survivor community.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_04]: So overall, if you can think of from, you know, the day

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_04]: you applied for the amazing race to today,

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_04]: what was the hardest part of the survivor experience

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_04]: and what was the best part?

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_02]: The hardest part of the survivor experience was,

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_02]: yes, acclimating back into the real world.

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, being announced and then being on the show

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and handling the comments and just the the scrutiny,

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say, on your life from a very small sliver.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. That is the hardest part.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And the best part being on survival.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like it's knowing that you got cast again,

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_02]: like you were saying from thousands that this whole production was put together.

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: This whole game was put together and you get to play it.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty good.

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_04]: It is. It is.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And they had your Doritos and your Mentos and your Oreos right there

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_04]: right there for when it was over.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_04]: If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice on day one

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_04]: on that on that starting day, what would it be?

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I could give myself any advice.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I wouldn't listen.

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be very clear.

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I know I wouldn't listen to me.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't listen to nobody.

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I have my own mind.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, Kelly, I'm going to tell you,

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what I could have done for it not to be as jacked up as it was.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it was, I don't know.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It was what it was, honey.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Like it was the it was the the firecracker soup

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_04]: of what it was going to be and accepting that in our lives,

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_04]: that it was what it was.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I truly believe that the winners are destined to be the winner

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_04]: and like deep down they know they're going to win.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Really? I do.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that.

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, I think that they all all of a lot of the winners I've talked to.

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_04]: First of all, they all say yes, they believe they could win.

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't I didn't deep down believe I could win.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, just don't be voted out first and then maybe possibly I could win.

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you did you think you could win?

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I believed I could win.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't think I was going to.

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I believe I could.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And so my philosophy is a little different.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like.

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_02]: You could have put all of those same people back on the beach

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and changed one little thing and it could have gone differently.

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But we don't know what it would have been or anything.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was fate.

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It was it was already in the soup.

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, yeah, yes, I yes, I think we were it's so interesting

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_04]: because it's to the same result, which is like.

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_04]: It was already in the soup.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But if you change.

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_04]: The ingredients of the soup.

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_04]: We're written by destiny and therefore that's why that person won.

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_04]: But if you go on a different day, the you know, different thing.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I think we're in the same.

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_04]: The camp, like the way it happened was how it was always going to happen.

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_04]: But on a different day with a different gust of wind,

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_04]: somebody else could have won.

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a different flap of the butterfly wings, you know, that sort of thing.

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think I don't know now that I think about maybe not volunteer for the puzzle.

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that would have may have changed something.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think it would have been just as bad.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I was already so.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, I don't know.

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_02]: The beauty tribe, I think it would have been different.

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_04]: You over there, Jeff, that would be the advice.

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you know yourself.

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I was I was like, I'm not on the beauty tribe.

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you could have been on all of them, I think after we hear about your background.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Other than survivor and I know you're not going to hide it

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_04]: that you're a big old reality TV fan.

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_04]: So other than survivor, what's your favorite reality TV show?

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So my favorite is Real Housewives Potomac is my favorite.

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I used to love Atlanta.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I watched Jersey for a while.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I watched D.C. when D.C. was on.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I watched Orange County when Orange County first came out.

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So I watched New York.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So I've had phases.

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I watched Beverly Hills, but Housewives, it's fun.

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I I actually do a podcast with Bryce.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_02]: We recap the Real Housewives of Potomac.

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I used to live in that area.

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_02]: That's where both my kids were born in the D.C. area.

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But I just think it's fun and fluffy.

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I like to see the women and see how they live in.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I like to see Miss Vanderpump at her house,

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_02]: even though she ain't on there no more.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just it's just nice.

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_04]: All in good fun.

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_02]: All good fun.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like it when they really fight, so.

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, when it's real fighting, that doesn't feel.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Or when it gets too personal.

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I like nice, gentle shade.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not when they have on, you know?

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Do that and salt their haircut because I laugh for days.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: If you don't salt somebody's haircut, you know, like,

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_02]: because especially if it's the one of the black

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and the sawmots, the haircut

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_02]: going to change in the next scene anyway.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just good fun.

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a temporary a temporary job.

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, a temporary job, a nice light, you know,

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: jab. So I really like those.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: This escapism is good to talk to my friends

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: about what they're doing.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I buy various Housewives products.

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to think, what do I have?

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I have a hat from one of the Real Housewives.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a fan.

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Capital capital FAN fan.

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You've got the gear you're all you're all in.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_04]: You're doing the podcast.

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the name of your podcast?

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know what?

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a Purple Pants podcast.

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Rock our Real Housewives of Rock.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh huh.

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. So cool.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Perfect.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll link it in the show notes

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_04]: for any Real Housewives fans out there.

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Or it would be a great listen, I would think,

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_04]: just to hear you and Bryce talk in and of itself.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, sometimes we go off the rail often.

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that's my bud.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, where is your favorite place in the world

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_04]: that listeners could visit?

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_04]: As in some people are like my bed room, reading a book.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So I have to say Thailand.

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Thailand.

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Retrip.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm like it was a great experience.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: The weather is great.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_02]: The people are super nice.

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It's beautiful.

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Is there a book or article you've read

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_04]: that's changed your life or you just love?

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go back to Strength Finders.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So Strength Finders is a book.

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would say, yeah, it changed my life

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: because it helped me name the things

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_02]: that are my strengths

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and help me understand myself a little bit better.

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, therapy has been great, right?

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But also Strength Finders is like this quiz you do

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and it basically tells you what are your greatest

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: natural strengths.

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: They give you five top categories.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And like, yeah, I've picked jobs for that.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I recently I'm in this community group

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and we had to pick committees.

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, OK, let me think of my Strength Finders.

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I picked the committee.

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I know that I cannot really.

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I don't know how to say this.

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I'm not the best at dealing with people.

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's be honest.

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And so.

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, OK, let me not get on the committee

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that actually has to plan like with other people

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and be cooperative.

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be on the bylaws committee.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So I thought I thought that was good.

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I'm going to be on the bylaws committee

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: where I just have to pick things.

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's it.

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah.

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, in the world needs that.

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the idea of the Strength Finder

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_04]: is that we all need to use our strengths in different ways.

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And somebody else could not do the bylaws section

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_04]: of being on the community event.

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's great that there are all kinds.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you have other than the podcast you're on,

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_04]: which is totally OK to call it out?

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you have other favorite podcast that you like or?

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I think this one is fantastic.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_04]: This one is this one.

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't listen to I'm going to be honest.

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't listen to a ton of podcasts.

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like NPR.

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I mean, but who don't like NPR?

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Like Morning Edition, I get my little Science Friday.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I like that there is the Nerdit podcast, I guess,

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: but I usually hear it on NPR, but Nerdit.

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I love.

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't heard about one.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's produced by WBEZ,

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: which is the local NPR station in Chicago.

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So let me name drop Nerdit.

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll say that. Cool.

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_04]: That's I'll check that out.

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Are you a music person?

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Music gal.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Is there a song you listen to on repeat right now for some?

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody told me I should make a play survivor playlist

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_04]: of everyone's favorite songs.

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So that is funny.

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I am a very cash music listener.

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I listen to what's whatever is on the radio.

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So the latest one was SZA Kill Bill.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, I'm I'm a I'm less of a music

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_04]: less than casual.

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I hardly have her so but I'm sure it's great.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I will link it and some people will be really excited about it.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure it's a really popular song.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So I heard it on the radio and then I was like,

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: what is the name of that song that I'm singing now?

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a dark content.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So I can't listen to a lot of music unless my kids, my kids.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: What do my kids have on repeat?

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It is a horrible song.

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, hold on.

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to think about it.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's welcome to the it's imagine Dragons.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: It's an imagine Dragon's Imagine Dragons.

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what's on repeat.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Not thunder.

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like welcome to the new age.

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: That one I tried to get that that one's radioactive.

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I tried to get them to like that one because it's talking about radio

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_02]: radioactivity with mom's trying to heart.

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It is I bones.

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel it in my.

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, that one's not your worm.

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_04]: That'll stick with us.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And last but not least, Jatia, where can people find you?

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_04]: What are you up to next?

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Anything you want to plug to the audience?

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_04]: What are what would you like to share?

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So I would like to share that I am very happy to be asked to be on here.

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, I love talking to survivor people

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: because they're really interesting people.

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And so are you telling?

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you.

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say that I am on Instagram and Twitter more Instagram than Twitter

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: at at JTI APHD doing nothing.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, just chilling.

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I just raising two human beings running

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_04]: nuclear nonproliferation and other than that, nothing.

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Correct.

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Trying to make sure nuclear weapons don't fall into the wrong hands

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that science and technology are used in the correct manner.

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: The huge I'm working at Idaho National Laboratory right now.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a division director for nuclear nonproliferation.

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So that keeps me busy and very interested.

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: We do a lot in cybersecurity, nuclear cybersecurity as well.

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I talk about my job.

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I talk about my life.

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm recovering breast cancer survivor.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So very happy about that.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I've been focusing on a lot this last year.

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So I want to tell all the women out there to go get your mammograms,

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: especially if you are high risk, don't delay.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Start early and often, I would say.

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. And would you I think like the recommendation

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I heard last is when you're 40 to start getting annual mammograms.

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that correct or should we start earlier?

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Because you were younger than that, right?

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I was just at the threshold

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and I actually started to get in mind earlier.

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You should get earlier if you have any kind of history of breast cancer.

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I would even say, you know, 25, 30,

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: if you have a history of breast cancer in your family, it's never too early.

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Give it to your mammogram.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: If you find a lump, because I know women who have been 25

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: in their 20s and 30s, I was diagnosed when I was 41.

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And I went for my first mammogram when I was 40.

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I went back the next year, I had stage three cancer.

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So be safe.

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Check it out.

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Younger and younger women used to be a disease for older women,

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: but now the rates are escalating for younger women.

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And also in black women, correct?

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_04]: It is a higher risk for black women.

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. And black women have a more aggressive form of the disease.

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So there is a Glennon Doyle, who's on We Can Do Hard Things podcast.

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Her sister was just diagnosed with breast cancer

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_04]: and they've had just recently on the last couple of episodes

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: experts on about breast cancer awareness and all that.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I learned so much from those two podcasts.

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'll link those in the show notes about dense breast tissue

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_04]: and how mammograms don't even show breast cancer.

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And then that's how it can show up, quote unquote, show up a year later.

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty sure that's what happened to me.

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I have dense breasts, though I didn't even have that much breast.

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I didn't have huge knockers.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So I would say, yeah, encourage you to get them checked out.

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. And I'll look up.

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I think there are a couple of organizations as well

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_04]: that help people get connected.

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you need, I think there's a nonprofit that can help with

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_04]: transportation, if there's anyone listening who has trouble with transportation

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_04]: and is still interested in getting a mammogram and a screening and all that.

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_04]: So I will link all of that in the show notes as well.

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Helen.

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, of course.

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And anything else before we sign off here?

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I would say that everybody needs to make sure that they hit the follow button

[01:09:40] [SPEAKER_02]: for Kellen's podcast so that you can subscribe and also get it delivered

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_02]: when you have new episodes because you got to hear what's going on

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: with our favorite survivors.

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, thank you for the plug, Jitzi.

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate it better than I better than I can do myself.

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So I appreciate that so much.

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for being here with me today.

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: There I've honestly, I feel like I could do an entire series just on you and your life.

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_04]: There's so many wonderful, amazing, curious things that you've done in the world.

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And as a woman who I look up to want to be more alike.

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And I am just so thankful that you took time to be here with me today.

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm sure everybody loved getting to hear more about Jitzi.

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I have totally enjoyed myself.

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you take care.

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Hope to see you in Chicago soon.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my gosh.

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that episode, that time with Jitzi was so amazing.

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_04]: This is the epitome of why road to reality exists.

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_04]: We all remember many of us remember Jitzi as the woman who dumped out the race

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and she graduated high school at 15, started college.

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Then, oh my goodness, has become a nuclear engineer.

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Was a playboy model like I.

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Was just fascinated by her story, her resilience, her the way she approaches

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_04]: being such an inspiring strong woman in this world.

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I look up to her so much and was so just enamored with her and that conversation.

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And I hope I get to see Jitzi every time I go to Chicago.

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_04]: It was so fun to see those of you who were at the event that Jitzi and I

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_04]: were talking about at the Brace and Win Live event.

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_04]: If any of you were there and you came up to me and you're still listening,

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_04]: like thank you so much for coming up to me and saying that you like the show.

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_04]: It means the world to me and keeps me, keeps us all going

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and keeps allowing us to have these conversations where we get to

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_04]: actually meet survivors as who they are.

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I am so thankful for each of you for listening.

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll see you next time.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like to thank Rob Cesternino and the entire RHAP team

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_04]: for their support in making this podcast.

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Jessica Sterling is the editor. Tricky Rice created the artwork.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_04]: To all of my fellow survivors, thank you for showing up or free

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_04]: to give me and all the listeners a look into your lives

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_04]: that we wouldn't otherwise get to see.

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm much gratitude to all of you listening.

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_04]: If you'd like to connect and only if you're kind,

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_04]: you can find me on social media at thekellenb or atkellenbeckerdoll.com

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_04]: where I as a holistic career coach tried to give away as many free resources

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_04]: as I can to help people find more happiness and success in their career journeys.

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_04]: May each of your realities lead down a road of peace,

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_04]: joy and a whole lot of adventure.

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And now here's Jacob Derwin with Mira from Manhattan.

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Mira from Manhattan.

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Chelsea from Chelsea.

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Christa from Columbus.

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter much to me.

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Now she's staring out the window.

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: She's turning on the night.

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: She takes a pen to her new novel.

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And the airplane takes flight.

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You.

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You.

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We're flying out to Dublin.

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Just a stop along the trail.

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Mira hops from there to Paris.

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I ride to Belfast on the rail.

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Now she's cheering in the winery.

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm staring at the sea.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Mira from Manhattan.

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter much to me.

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You.