Road to Reality | Back to the Beginning with Rob Cesternino

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Road to Reality, the final episode here of this season. We're driving the vehicle into the garage for our final episode of the season. And this episode's guest needs no introduction really, let's be honest. However, he is a two-time survivor, a survivor all-star, a survivor know-it-all. And the founder of this here network, Rob has a podcast.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_02]: The Rob Cesternino or, you know, Heyo Rabio has deep cut some of you all know him as through me. Anyway, I am so glad that Rob I talked him into it, some people on his staff as well. And I, he didn't really want to sit down. I think he was worried that you all hear a lot from him often. But there were so many things about Rob's actual survivor experience that I didn't know about what was going on in his life before during and after survivor.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: How he built out this network to what it is today. And this episode is incredible. Obviously, Rob is a master podcaster. So he's telling the story so beautifully and so fascinating. And so he does a masterful job as the masterful podcaster that he is.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But some of these stories, my jaw hits the floor. When you hear about how he found out that he was going to be on Survivor All-Stars, like I can't even tell you. I'm so excited for all of you to be here and to listen to this podcast. You know, Rob is just such a professional. I screw up at the beginning here. And say survivor started in 2001. It started in 2000. He didn't correct me. He just like carefully, you know, edits it back to 2000 as he's describing the beginning of his life.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm so excited to introduce to you the amazing, incredible founder of RHAP, Rob Cesternino.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I like to start off with a regular cup of coffee and then I continuously pour boiling water into it until it gets weaker and weaker and weaker.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that the key to all of your success right after that here?

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yes. It's just like milk. Take something and just stretch it out as far as possible. You got a lucky break in 2002. Can you make 30 years out of that?

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So far so good. There's still some coffee and water.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Try to make the experience last for as long as possible.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting to me. It's part of what I'm curious about throughout the whole thing is like how much of it even feels connected to that time.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But we'll get to that. I just like it seems like it's something else entirely and yet it can't be. So I'm curious as we go through that piece of it.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, Rob, thank you for doing this with me. I know for season one I asked and it was you thought nobody wants to know a darn thing about Rob Cesternino and then I just picking and begging.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's fine. I'm happy to do it. I just, you know, maybe hopefully underestimate how much interest there is to hear from me because people hear from me all the time.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But if you're interested, I'm here.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that's I think that's part of it too is like, wow, of course there are lots of RHA people who get to listen to everything and get to follow along to the whole thing.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like there are some more casual fans who maybe just listen to know-it-alls or only get to pop in here or there that don't know your story as a whole.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And certainly now we're talking, I mean, it's just blowing my mind looking back doing research, getting ready for today how quite long ago it was to for us that we remember when Survivor started and you were so close to the beginning.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I think somehow in my mind you were more like middle of the middle of the road of the and I was like, oh no, not at all. This was this was right out of the bat.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: You're seeing it for the first time on TV in 2001 and pretty quickly going into the casting process.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And then here we are all these years later, we've got a long, quick as possible road to travel here, Rob, to get all of it.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think there are a lot of people who haven't been able to see your story from beginning to end in a way that we are all interested.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what I'm going to try to do here today.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Take the legend of Rob Sestrino and bring it all together into a package so we can understand how you got here after all of this.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that sounds very fascinating to me.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you'd like to know yourself.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I would like to know how this happened.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: How did this happen?

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you can remember, I was thinking some of the people who are listening to this podcast were not even born at this point when when Survivor started.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was in I was just starting high school, so I even have trouble remembering exactly what it was like at the time.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: But from through your eyes, what is Survivor like when it comes on that first time?

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: What does that feel like?

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there was a lot of buzz about that.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_04]: There was going to be this thing that was going to be on television that people were going to live in an island and one person was going to be left and somebody was going to be get it.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Get a million dollars.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_04]: I remember like vividly like hearing about this listening to the radio and they were talking about this as I can't believe this is going to happen when this is on.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm definitely going to watch this because this sounds like really incredible.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And then when it actually did start, I was not there on night one, but then it started to be like a little bit of buzz in the media.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And then that's when I ended up.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I was the fourth episode of Survivor, which was in, I believe, June of 2000.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And I checked it out and I was like, oh my God, I can't believe this is real.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I was there every Wednesday for it was on it was on Wednesdays back then, but then it moved to Thursday.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, for the rest of the summer, I was locked in.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And how if you don't mind me asking, how old were you in 2000 when it started?

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I was I guess I was 21 and I would turn 22 in the fall of that year.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so you are just finishing college or you just.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I was I was finishing up my final would have been my final year at college.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I and I started college in the fall of 1996.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I should have graduated in May of 2000, which was when the same month that Survivor started.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_04]: But I ended up sticking around for another semester to finish up a few different things.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_04]: But most particularly, like I didn't want to graduate.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And I thought that that was a way I could get another semester out of being in college.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And then also that I needed to finish up.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I was in the honors program at SUNY Oswego or they call Oswego State University.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And I needed to write a thesis and I, you know, in very true Rob Cicernino fashion,

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I procrastinated writing this thesis paper for a very, very long time.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And it really needed to go back that last semester and finish that thesis paper.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it was also during the summer of 2000 that I thought of the idea of her.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I was a communications major and focused on broadcasting.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And I wrote a thesis paper about the impact of reality television,

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_04]: about how who wants to be a millionaire and survivor change television.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was what my big thesis paper was going to be for graduating from the honors program.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so while you're going up, I'm imagining a young Rob

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_02]: who's communications, broadcasting, consuming reality TV at the time.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're writing paper about it, is this something that's new to your personality

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: or how you're seeing the world? Or when you were younger, you were always someone who,

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: like, watched TV and wanted to be in the news.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Was this always your thing?

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Love to watch television.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And some of my very earliest memories are all from watching the television.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I love game shows.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And to me, that this was like, oh, the greatest game show.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And I watched the real world and things like that on TV.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And I enjoyed those things.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_04]: But the idea of it being like a game, a game show, that that was so exciting.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And in 1999, it was August of 1999 that who wants to be a millionaire

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_04]: ended up being such a phenomenon.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And that, you know, there was like a quote at the time

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_04]: that it was basically like the programming equivalent of crack cocaine.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_04]: It was described as is basically it was like the number one show.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It had a huge audience.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_04]: It was cheap. They could put it on every single night.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And it really caused a lot of the networks to start to think about,

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_04]: like, what's our version of this?

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And all of the other networks were trying to do other different

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_04]: shiny floor game shows at that time.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Survivor ended up being the first of a new thing,

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_04]: which was a different type of, you know, unscripted program

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_04]: that CBS was going to really start to go all in.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And CBS was really just not a,

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, great, great place at that time.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And it really helped to kickstart

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_04]: a whole like a real

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_04]: great era for CBS.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Cool. And are you thinking, wow, this is going on.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You're watching it. You're studying it.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you thinking I want to create these television shows or are you just

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: doing it because what else am I going to do in college?

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what is your what are you imagining yourself

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: being a piece of this journey?

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I am going to talk about Survivor with anybody who will listen.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we're going to have Survivor watch parties

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_04]: where people are going to come over and watch Survivor with us.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And as just like a social thing, not like your job.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You're just not a job.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: This is what Survivor was thinking.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, I guess there was not a plan.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me word the question a little bit differently.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: The what was your plan as far as being in television at the time?

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, did you when you because you were going to school

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_02]: for communications and all this stuff, did you see yourself

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_02]: behind the camera or you wanted to be a director?

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_02]: You wanted to be an entertainment in some way or not at all?

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to want any entertainment job

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_04]: that I could potentially have that.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_04]: That was like my dream to do something fun

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_04]: in some form of entertainment.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And while I did not quite have this thought yet

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_04]: while I was still in college, eventually my plan is going to be

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to get on one of these shows.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And then after I get on one of these shows,

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_04]: then I'm going to know people in the entertainment industry

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_04]: and then they will give me a job.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And your options at this point are who wants to be a millionaire survivor?

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_02]: The real world.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you what else are you applying?

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't even apply for any of these shows yet.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, it was just the idea.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Watching them and you know, and then later on in 2000,

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Big Brother is going to come on and Big Brother.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_04]: We were watching it, but we weren't really big fans

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_04]: of the first season of Big Brother.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And your.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Dream, then to bring it back to where you started of my.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Journey, my planned journey for survivors to have

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: watch parties, to talk with people and just have fun.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, there was no like well thought out, like,

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I didn't know what Survivor was going to be.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_04]: It was just something that was happening.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like just like in amazement of like,

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_04]: can you believe that there's a thing called Survivor?

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And like, are you watching this?

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was just was like watching every episode and memorizing

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_04]: everything that I could.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I did go for a job interview, I think in the fall of 2000 to go.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I knew a woman that like had like a job,

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_04]: like who was like a PA at the at the channel,

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_04]: CBS station in Syracuse.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And like I went for a job interview there and I was like, oh, this is CBS.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_04]: They they do survive.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_04]: This is this.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_04]: But I did not get hired for that.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_04]: But if I did get hired for that, I probably would have moved to Syracuse

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_04]: and my life would have gone in a very alternate trajectory.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_04]: If that had happened.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You are at the point of getting early on fan

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_02]: super fan, the early, early on super fan of watching Survivor.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And you see season one play out.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: At what point does it switch into I'm going to actually apply

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02]: to get on the show and what does that process look like at the time?

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_04]: So I was super fan of Survivor one, of course,

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_04]: and then of Survivor, the Australian outback.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that I started to think about making a video

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_04]: around the time of like Survivor Africa was on.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think I was like too scared and I made a video.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I never sent it in.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I actually sent it to my local newspaper.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was reminded of this recently because my mom had the article

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_04]: that there was an article in the New York News Day on Long Island

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_04]: about people from Long Island that are applying for Survivor.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And I sent in my tape to them, not to Survivor.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And they and they printed it in the newspaper that,

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_04]: oh, here's another person that's like Rob Cestronino is a person

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_04]: who wants to be on Survivor.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And I thought, oh, my God, look at this.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in the newspaper or something like me and the word survivor.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Look at this.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And we bought like a million copies and we were so super excited.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But it was during the summer of 2001

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_04]: that I really fell in love with Big Brother.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And Big Brother was people sitting around the house talking about things.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I said, this is what I was put on this earth to do.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_04]: This is this is my show.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And really, Dr.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Will Kirby was my all time favorite favorite.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I never stand anybody harder

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_04]: in my reality TV watching that I did, Dr.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Will. And I said, OK, well, this is what I want to do.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I need to go beyond Big Brother.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you applied to Big Brother and then I applied to be on Big Brother

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_04]: three. And I went to

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: you sent in a different tape, you recorded on a VCR.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_04]: No, yeah, I recorded it on a camcorder.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. And I sent sent it in and I had my grandfather's

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_04]: camcorder and he had passed away, but I got his camcorder and,

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, I had never really thought about that, that that was like

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_04]: part of the, you know, if it wasn't for that,

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how I would have made a tape.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And. I sent in this video

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and my sister helped me with it, and it was

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_04]: the video I made was like me being interviewed by Julie Chen

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_04]: the morning of it was after I had won Big Brother three

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_04]: and I was doing an interview and I think we had we sort of had like

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_04]: like a like a Julie Chen picture that was kind of animated

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_04]: and my sister was doing the voiceover and we were talking about how

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I was, you know, dominated the game and how like everybody in the house

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_04]: loved me and like there were, you know, there were multiple

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_04]: women in the house who were interested in me romantically.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And Julie Chen Moonves does not recall and she was a Julie Chen

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_04]: at the time. It does not recall any of that.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_04]: It was like a very like idiotic video.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was going to go even though I was graduated from college

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I had started working at a insurance agency

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_04]: that was a family, friends insurance agency.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was doing like computer work, like like tech support stuff.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I was going on spring break with my friends who were still in college.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was like a last minute thing before it was like the deadline

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_04]: was coming up.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And I just like before I left for spring, I almost like,

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_04]: should I even do it?

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I'm too busy.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And I went to the post like I still remember like the mailbox I went to.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Put it in the mailbox,

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_04]: down by the Wanto Public Library and sent it in.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And then like probably six, seven weeks later, I got a phone call from a guy

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_04]: who was a casting person who said that they saw my tape for Big Brother

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_04]: and they wanted me to come to a interview in New York City.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so somebody from a casting director got your big brother

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and then went into Survivor.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, so well, well, that I got very far into the casting process of Big Brother.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And I almost was cast on Big Brother.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I went out to Big Brother casting in the May of 2002

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and went to like I was like, you know, went through all of the

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_04]: casting process and interviews and everything

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_04]: and met with the executives and got very, very far

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_04]: in the process of being cast onto Big Brother four as a big brother three.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And they ultimately they didn't pick me.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But Lynn Spillman was in those casting sessions.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And then in the fall of 2002, they were looking for somebody

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_04]: who is like the person that they cast instead of me on Big Brother.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And they remembered me and called me for Survivor.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It's so I don't know if it's super.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I think so. I think people love to hear about it.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's so fascinating to me that you were like, first of all,

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: getting a call like on a house phone.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. I mean, there's no or maybe maybe.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I had a cell phone.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I had a cell phone at that point.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, I don't know why I'm picturing you were doing this on a typewriter.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Just kidding.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so you do have your cell phone, but it's just like.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So incredibly different because even when I applied

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: eight years ago, I had never

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_02]: other than leaving you a voicemail, I never spoken to anyone

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: who had ever done any of these shows.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It was in it felt like into the ether,

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: into a black box that I was applying you even more so massive

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: amounts of it was like a mystery.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Did it feel like, oh, my God, it's Hollywood.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It's L.A. It's so big.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: They're like on The Tonight Show and all the shit, right?

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Like all the survivor people.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it had to feel so big.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I do wonder if maybe that so little of it is like left

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_04]: to the imagination now in terms of like how much the curtain

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_04]: is pulled back on things.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, this was I had never been to Los Angeles before I went to go

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_04]: apply for Big Brother and I went to the CBS

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_04]: studios and was meeting with executives and I met Mark Burnett

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and Jeff Probst and I was just like geeking out about the whole

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_04]: experience. And even if I didn't make it on the show,

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_04]: this was still the coolest thing I ever did.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And it wasn't close.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely felt that way at the time as well.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Like when I went because I still flew out,

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_02]: it all felt very much like a mystery to me.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I hadn't I didn't know what any of it was.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_02]: The curtain hadn't been pulled back for me, even if it had been

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_02]: for some at the time in 2016.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I had no idea.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're still trying to be like figure it

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: watching the Ponderosa videos, trying to figure out like

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: when the people who go out now, what they know going into casting,

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_02]: talking to people before they have their casting videos and all that stuff

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: or before they put their video in, before they talk to casting,

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: before they go out.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I am so thankful that I got to play at the point that it was all a mystery.

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder how much even more magic there was for you at the time.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It was my dream, Kellen, that I would meet somebody

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_04]: who was on Survivor one day.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_04]: That was really that if I would have met like the,

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, the first boot of any season,

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I would have just been like, oh, my God, I can't believe it.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So to me, to do anything that had to do with Survivor was just such a

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_04]: like I was pinching myself.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_02]: What was it like to meet Jeff the first time?

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you go into a big room with a bunch of exacts like we did?

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, I met them all in the end and I worked with Lynn Spillman a lot

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_04]: and they really like prepped me from like, don't talk about Big Brother.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_04]: They do not like Big Brother.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Do not say anything about it. OK, OK, I got it.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I got it. And so they were like really like coaching me to like,

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, just be funny.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I went into the meetings and then I just remember like I

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_04]: and I told Lynn Spillman about how I wrote my college paper about

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Survivor and she was like, tell Mark that he's a hell of it.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I had it like I thought a pretty good

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_04]: again, I was talking about like how I was really playing up my character,

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_04]: which was which was a version of me, but a very heightened version of me

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_04]: of that, like I was a loser who lived in my parents' basement

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_04]: and couldn't get a date.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And that they but they they thought that was so funny.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I was really they were cracking up

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_04]: at like anything that I was talking about, about how

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I was hoping that I would get a date and how if I went on a reality show,

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember if I said this for Survivor or Big Brother,

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_04]: but I said I was going to have more privacy on the show

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_04]: than I have in living in my parents' basement.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And so they were really just yeah, they seem tickled

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_04]: and people remembered me from the Big Brother auditions in the room.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that was good.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I and I was in I was not in the full casting

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_04]: for Survivor the Amazon.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_04]: They had already done their big casting

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_04]: and they were looking for like one or two more people for the cast.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I was there with maybe like 10 to 15 guys that were there.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it was like a little bit of a smaller group.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And then they like, you know, that at the time

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_02]: that they were looking for one or two people out of the 15 guys.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think I must have known that they were like

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_04]: they had already done their big cast because I did that with Big Brother

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_04]: where there was like 50 people there.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And that this was like a smaller group of people.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And they were looking to like round out the cast.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I ended up, you know, they told me like that.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I met with the executives and then they made a decision

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_04]: and they came out and told me like, OK, you're you're going.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going when and you left in in November.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: What month was this?

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_04]: They said you're going first week of October,

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_04]: first week of October or last week of September.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_04]: So it was like it was like basically like four weeks.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And so they took me from the like the green light.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_04]: They said you're going and they brought me right to Cedars-Sinai Hospital

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and started just like inoculating me.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I got like like 12 inoculations like in one day.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And I didn't tell my parents that that they gave me the green light.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_04]: So then they I got all inoculated.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And then in the morning, I flew back home to Long Island

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_04]: and I got home like very late at night.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I came home and I was wearing like a tank top.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I just came up from like the basement

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_04]: and my parents saw like that I had like a million like band aids all over me.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're like, what happened to you?

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I'm going on.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_04]: My parents did not think this was a good idea.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_04]: They were like, are you sure this is a good idea?

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you've never camped.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_04]: You don't know anything about living outside.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I don't know what am I going to do?

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_04]: They picked me. I got to go.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And everyone in the country is watching Survivor at this point.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So your parents know what it is and they know that it's this huge stage.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think my dad was paying particularly close attention to it.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, they knew it was just like some stupid thing that I cared about.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, it was like a huge, huge show.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I just like the the weight of that.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess by the time I went out in thirty six,

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't really feel this idea of like,

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, you know, the running joke is nobody watches Survivor anymore in the 30s.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. So I didn't feel that pressure of this or the pressure

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_02]: or the excitement of like this could catapult me to a brand new

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_02]: life on The Tonight Show, on People magazine,

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: on all these things that were happening.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you feel the weight of that?

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Or were you just so excited about the game part that wasn't.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I was very excited to be on television.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I was very excited to be on Survivor.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, in my mind, it was like a survivor has sort of like it was still like

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_04]: probably Friends was like the number one show on television.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Survivor was like, you know, vying for number two

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_04]: at that particular time, maybe number three.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_04]: But it wasn't in my mind.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_04]: It was like, well, it used to be a phenomenon.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Now it's just like, you know, a hit.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's probably going to be like canceled in like a year or two.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_04]: But I got to be on it before it ended.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that was really how I was feeling.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And I just thought like, well, I'm probably not going to do well,

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_04]: but I'm going to get to go to all the survivor parties

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_04]: because that's what's that's what they're going to.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_04]: They have to let me hit.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I was on the show. You're on the list.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the matter of I got voted off first.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_04]: They have to let me go to the party now

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm going to meet all the survivors.

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[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: What was it like to you came back?

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You didn't have that much of a wait.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You come back, you know, you're going to go in October.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You're out there November, December.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You come back and then the show's on by February.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So it is just fast, fast compared to current survivors.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Pretty fast. Yeah.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_02]: What does that time like you?

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You've quit your job at the insurance company.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Kellyn, I got voted out on day 38 and I think it was on.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I think I'm trying to remember if it was a Wednesday night or

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it was a Wednesday night.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think the final travel council was a Thursday night.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was back at my job on Monday.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I flew home.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_04]: We flew home on Friday into Saturday.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_04]: My parents picked me up at the airport on like, like, you know,

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Saturday afternoon.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And I went to my parents like we went out to dinner Saturday night.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I guess there was like I must have watched football on Sunday.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I was back at back at my desk Monday morning at 830.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Answering phone calls just and people were like,

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_04]: what happened to you?

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Why are you like because I had lost 30 pounds playing survivor.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Funny. And you couldn't have told you didn't

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_04]: you weren't able to tell that I wasn't like the people were like,

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_04]: were very suspicious about the whole thing that I had said.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_04]: My cover story was that I had gone to the to Prague

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_04]: in the Czech Republic to work with the software

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_04]: developers on our company's software.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_04]: But people were seeing a lot of holes in this story about

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_04]: like what happened, like it was the conditions were very rough in Prague.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So you told your boss you were able to tell your boss and they were.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Boss knew and I also worked with my mom at the time.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_04]: My mom also worked at the same company, which was very unusual. Yes.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And so, yes.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_04]: So my mom and my mom also came and visited also.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_04]: So like also very conspicuously, your mom also disappeared for a week. Yes.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You come back 30 pounds less.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, at this point, you still have dirt under your behind your ears.

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_04]: If probably I couldn't stay awake past like six o'clock at night.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Like it was, you know, it was rough.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And then such as a few weeks though, until they announced that.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_02]: How did they announce?

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: How do people in your world find out you were a survivor?

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_04]: They must.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that what they did was that they would have people tune

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_04]: into the CBS early show and then they were going to have like

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_04]: they like, oh, and then tune in on Monday.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we'll show you the first look at the news.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Like it used to be a big deal of like the new survivor cast.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And then it would be like on the website.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And they also had like a thing where if you went to a Saturn dealership,

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_04]: and test drove a Saturn, they would give you a DVD about this.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Like this was the only season that they did this for.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I was like going to like Saturn dealerships

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and trying to get the DVD to show like the preseason interviews.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Any fan of the show could go to Saturn to get the preseason DVD interviews

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_02]: so you could get like the first look of the cast.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Once they announced it, you had to go to Saturn dealership

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and then test drive a Saturn and you could get the survivor.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was the car they gave away on Survivor the Amazon.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Saturn Ion.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, this is the Applebee's before it was the Applebee's.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So you are back.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_02]: What is it like to be on TV?

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: The February to May of 2003, it is on TV.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_02]: There's how many millions of people watching?

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_02]: What is your life like?

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, it was pretty normal.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, it was not like now, like there wasn't social media.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So I sort of was like just like in my own little bubble

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_04]: where it was like, oh, like, you know, just absorbing survive.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I loved the experience of, you know, week to week on Survivor.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_04]: The Amazon of my parents would have like a big party at the house

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_04]: and they invite.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_04]: But I didn't have any friends like I didn't have,

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, a bunch of people to come over.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I had a couple of really close friends from college,

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_04]: but they didn't live near me.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And so we just basically

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_04]: my parents had like a big party invited, like 40, 50 people over.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was a big thing every Wednesday night.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And so Thursday night at that time.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And the one big thing was that my now

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_04]: wife ended up being my sister's friend, Nicole.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And she was coming over because my sister had friends over.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And we started like after we would watch the shows.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And there was also like the younger people

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_04]: like went to the bar after the shows.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And so we really hit it off at that particular point in time.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that was, you know, a very like magical time.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_04]: But other than that, my life was...

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You did get a date from Survivor after all.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I did get a date.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I did get a date from Survivor and that was it.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I met one person that wanted to date me from Survivor.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was it.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And I ended up, you know, just having like a pretty like

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I was still working the whole time, like there wasn't like anything going on.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I wasn't on cameo.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_04]: There wasn't like I was reading everything on the Internet.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_04]: There was about Survivor and what people thought about me.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And but that's really but it was very positive.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I really had no problems with like,

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, what anybody was saying.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I just like, you know, I loved the way I was edited on the show and

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_04]: the response to me.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You lasted a long time.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So to make it 38 days, you felt at that point like I went out.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I did my thing other than the fact that you didn't win.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You felt really excited and overall great about the experience.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't even care that I didn't win.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this was beyond my like my

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and it's such an important thing in life of like,

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, it's everything is versus expectations.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_04]: My expectation was I was going to be the first person voted off the show

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_04]: and I was going to be on for one episode and that was it.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was on for 13 episodes and got, you know, so much out of the

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_04]: experience that I never thought I was going to have.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it was just, you know, 10 out of 10, no notes.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_04]: It was just absolutely, you know, an incredible period of my life.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And it gets done airing in May and you are at what point back in casting.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_04]: So I went to the finale and that was really incredible because then I did.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I got to meet all the survivors and they were all there.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, my God, they used to invite the old folks.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. And they had a huge gala, a party, and everybody was there.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And I took pictures with all the survivors and it was just like

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_04]: the whole thing was a dream come true for me.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And I went to then a couple of days later, they had like the CBS upfront

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_04]: where they promote the upcoming fall shows for CBS.

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And they had me.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_04]: That was the top six people from my cast.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And we went to a thing and Richard Hatch was there.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, oh, my God, Richard, what are you doing here?

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_04]: So you didn't hear about survivor all stars like, no, what is it?

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_04]: He's like, oh, they're doing the all stars.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_04]: They're bringing a bunch.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_04]: They're bringing people back.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I never even occurred to me really that they were

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_04]: going to do something like that.

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I was not like thinking.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And I guess that that's like you could never put that genie back in the bottle

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_04]: of like it never even occurred to me like during this whole time

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_04]: that you could play survivor again.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_04]: They're going to do a survivor when they bring the old people back.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that was just crazy

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_04]: that that it was happening.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Mark Burnett was like like had basically said that

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_04]: that night that, you know, I was going to go back.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I was like, all right, well, well, I got it.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I got to get ready.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I got to go back and play survivor again in four months.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, you're just at a casual party.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And Mark Burnett is telling you that you're going to go do this again.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. So it was the CBS upfront night.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And so all of the CBS stars of the year 2000 were we're all together.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_04]: They advertise like, OK, this show is coming on and this show is coming on.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was at a table with Phil Rosenthal,

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_04]: who is like the executive producer of Everybody's Raymond.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And he and his wife, they were survivor fans.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's a super nice guy.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I love him.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, from afar. Yeah.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_02]: He tweeted my story once or reposted my story once.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm like a huge fan.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't believe you're sitting at a table with him.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And he was asking like I was like,

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, OK, well, this is somebody who works in TV.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm like going to be like parked next to him the whole night.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And Mark and he asked Mark Burnett, he's like,

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_04]: so Mark Robb's got to come back for the All Stars.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. And what Mark Burnett said to him was,

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_04]: is the pope Polish?

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And he was at that time.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_04]: He was at that used to be an expression.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so you're sitting with somebody feeds

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Phil and Mark Burnett adding. Yes.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_02]: White tablecloth event.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And Burnett says, yes, is the pope Polish?

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And yes, is he.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: In that moment, realizing that he's like

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_02]: upsetting the apple cart to your life or do you don't even know

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_02]: if he really meant it at the time, it just didn't work.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_04]: He meant it. They really tried to like then that summer,

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_04]: like I remember getting like a call from Jeff, like being like,

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like I don't know if it's looking too good for you.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And Lin Spilman also, I feel like some people think that maybe,

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, you were a one trick pony.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So like it's not a done deal.

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I felt like that.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_04]: But I felt pretty good overall about it.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to go back through what casting was then.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you have to go? No, I said to like take like a physical

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_04]: and send back like a blood sample and stuff like that.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, it was it was not a big

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_04]: hole to do to do the casting for the All Stars.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So then you get the call saying you're going back and you're ready to go.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: What is the preparation piece for you?

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, so now that you've been on it, now you've now you've gone through

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Survivor once you're getting ready to go through it again.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Like what are you doing?

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Not like gameplay physically, but what is it like in your body

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and brain to be to be realizing you're still healing?

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It's all still a whirlwind.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And now you're going to go do it again.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you? Yeah. What was that like?

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_04]: So I was doing like a lot of, you know, I had a personal trainer at the time.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think I've learned a lot more about like exercise and work.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I had never really picked up a weight before I even played Survivor.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Like the like when they told me I was going to be on Survivor

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_04]: the first time, I don't even know what I was doing.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I never really had like an exercise regimen before that.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I remember just like running around the track and like trying to like

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_04]: gain weight of like, OK, well, I can't die if I have a lot of weight on me.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what I did the first time.

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I really it was the first time in my life

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_04]: that I started to actually try to like

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_04]: like lift weights and do

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_04]: like more of like a like a training program.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was really very focused on my balance because I felt like that.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, well, I lost the first time because I didn't have good balance.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_04]: If I would have had if I would have had great balance,

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I would have won Survivor the Amazon.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I was really working out like I was like like trying to like

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like kneeling on a Swiss ball and like trying to control

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_04]: my center of gravity and like doing some exercise.

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And I thought for me, I was in pretty good shape for Survivor All-Stars.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I felt like I had put, you know, like

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_02]: which is amazing that your body could even I mean, you were young,

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's amazing that your body could even recover from losing all that weight,

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: being malnourished, get ready to be.

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's just crazy in that sense.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Mental health wise, do you ever you haven't landed right?

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_02]: There's no way that you've landed back to Earth like,

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, I'm just an insurance guy this whole time.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You are in the.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Mental space, I imagine of like I am in TV now.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, I never like I was really just like, OK, well, this is it.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And then and now I'm going to be on TV again.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And now that my expectations, the first time where I was going to be

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_04]: the first person out and that I get to go to the parties.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Now my expectation is, OK, this I was, you know, I came so close.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Now I'm going to come back and win.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And even if I don't win, I'm going to go very far

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm going to be very famous after this.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And so really, the world is my oyster now, Callum.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm going to be a Survivor All-Star.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And then what happens?

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Disaster.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I went out and I felt like very good about my relationships

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_04]: and I really like that that summer I did, you know,

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I wouldn't say I did like pre-gaming in terms of like I had like an alliance,

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_04]: but I'm like, OK, well, I'm going to like just get in good with everybody.

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, I must have seen Boston Robb like five, six times.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And he was my other favorite of like I loved loved Boston Robb.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I hung out with Alicia.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I had hung out with Amber a bunch of times, like I hung out

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_04]: with Big Tom a bunch of times when I saw my tribe.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But this is this is a great tribe for me.

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So you were OK.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That's that helps me see the picture of you had been hanging out.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You had met up with these people.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You had seen them like these are the people you've been around in real life.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: The lines are very blurred.

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I went there was no social media.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So I went to like three or four different like charity events

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_04]: and also like went to like Boston.

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Boston Robb said he was having a Labor Day party at his house

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_04]: and a bunch of survivors were going to be there.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was me and Alicia was there and Kathy was there.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, just a bunch of people that were going to be on

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_04]: the Survivor All-Stars were like this.

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, look, I'm like, you know,

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_04]: rubbing elbows with like all the important people.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, I'm set up great here for Survivor All-Stars.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you keeping in game mode or are you like feeling?

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I know myself, I would be so confused between

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm making real friends.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And probably lose the fact that it was all a game.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I would be like 90 percent.

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm having friends 10 percent.

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm oh, I have to remember I'm in game mode.

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you on that? Yeah.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I think that I probably.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_04]: The misconception that I had and I was a younger person

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_04]: when I was doing this was I don't think I was thinking about it.

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And people had never played before in terms of,

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, like bringing people back for Survivor.

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think I just thought it it sort of like,

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, high school or like a friend group of like, OK,

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_04]: the people that get along are going to stick together

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_04]: and then the people that are annoying that we don't like

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_04]: are going to be the people that.

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's really how Survivor was most of the time in in the beginning.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Like there wasn't a lot of like, oh, this person is a huge threat.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_04]: So we're getting rid of them early.

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of Survivor was this person is annoying or doesn't fit in

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and is getting voted out.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I really still is that.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But we can say that we're a big threat.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a different point.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_04]: That's probably it can be.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But there are definitely like people that get targeted

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_04]: like at like earlier points in the game where it's like,

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_04]: that person, if we don't get them out today, they're going to win.

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And that just had never been a thought before on Survivor.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I just felt like that.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, but as long as I'm in good with everybody

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_04]: and everybody likes me and people think I'm funny,

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_04]: like I didn't think that I was going to be targeted.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought I might be targeted if I was like really

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't pull my weight in the challenges maybe.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_04]: But it also didn't occur to me that you could be in

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_04]: like a small tribe of six people.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Oops. Yeah, that's real.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_02]: That's scary.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So to put in short, in other places here on R.J.P.

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_02]: or watching back, you can go and watch Rob's journey.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It's his second time back.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. What point?

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And you went on the pre merge trip.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Correct. It was a mini trip.

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Mini trip there was I didn't know if they even did that then.

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. So we I went to Ponderosa and anyway, yada, yada, yada.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I got blindsided, was so was so upset of that to go from

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_04]: like being on the whole show to then going out in the fourth episode.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was just like completely, you know, devastated, which,

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, I don't want to like, you know.

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like in the scheme of things,

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_04]: like people have horrible things that that they're dealing with.

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But to me, this was like I was just, you know,

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_04]: this was such a blow to me at 24 years old.

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I think I was 25 at that point.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And I got to the jury and it was Tina and Rudy and Jenna.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Murasca had left. She had gone home because of her mom.

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it was just the three of us.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And then eventually Richard Hatch came in and we did not know about

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_04]: the business with Richard Hatch and Sue at that time.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Like that was like did not know about that for a long time.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And then they basically like we were waiting for everybody.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know if they if they changed the plans

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_04]: because of the rich and Sue thing, or if it was always that they were going

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_04]: that we were too famous to basically like be in a big group of people together.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I mean, everybody was sort of like, I mean,

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_04]: you had people who were like, you know, super duper famous,

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_04]: like Richard Hatch and Rudy or like unmiss Tina and Jerry Colby,

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_04]: who, you know, are, Ethan, you know, unmistakable.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_04]: If you see the spot them in public and we got spotted a few different times

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_04]: in in our trip, but they basically they sent me, Tina,

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Rudy and Richard to Patagonia.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And we went to the southern tip of Argentina to go and

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_04]: go to some cabins.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it was really I now

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_04]: not only was I out of the game, I was not.

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I would have stayed at Ponderosa gladly the whole time.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I did not want to go to a trip because I was like at least I was like going

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_04]: to get to meet the other survivor all stars.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_04]: At least I was going to see everybody.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Now they took I lost that too.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And now it's me and Tina and Rudy and Richard Hatch.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, OK.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Richard Hatch also was a little bit of a, you know,

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_04]: tricky character to deal with.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Also, he did not want to be there.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_04]: He put up a whole fuss over where we were staying.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_04]: He demanded to be put into like a hotel that was like a resort.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_04]: They they did that.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_04]: But you're still stuck at the cabin and I'm still stuck at the cabin.

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_04]: But he said, like, I'm like, you, you can't keep me here.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I want I want this. I want this.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I want this. And they said, OK.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And he went off and he actually met his husband there.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But then it was me and Tina and Rudy for the next three or so weeks together.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And what was that reflection time like over those three weeks?

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Was it just like all I mean, for all of us,

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_02]: we are all obsessed with our survivor experience.

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's on a minor scale compared to where you were at.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And you are a year for I mean, well, you're three,

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you're three in from like applying to going out to being on the show,

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_02]: to being, you know.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's really a little bit more than year one.

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I got the call that do you want to be on Survivor in October of 2002?

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is November 2000.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess that's true. Yeah.

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like 13 months after.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I'm looking at it from like the TV perspective.

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And it's so it is fast.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to just quickly take us through the timeline here.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I should have done this research before I talked to Rob,

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_02]: but I thought I had it in my mind that it was like over three years or so.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But no, from the time that he filmed

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Survivor, the sixth season, the Amazon in November of 2002,

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_02]: then the Amazon aired.

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Then he films Survivor All-Stars season eight in winter of 2003.

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And then All-Stars airs and is finished.

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_02]: The finale is in May of 2004.

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_02]: In that time, Rob plays Survivor,

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_02]: watches himself on Survivor twice in 18 months.

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_02]: 18 months.

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_02]: That timeline blows my mind out of all of the folks we've talked to.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_02]: That is the craziest roller coaster ride.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And this was back when, as he said,

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Survivor was a huge nationwide massive undertaking.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_02]: That 18 month count is just just crazy to me.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Is your identity as a person and who you are?

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Feeling shattered at the time or excited at the time because I'm still on the TV?

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Or is it so much in the game those three weeks that you're just

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_02]: replaying what went wrong in the game?

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it a mix of all of it?

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you even know what's happening in your brain and body?

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a mix of all of it.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_04]: I remember having and I almost never dream about Survivor,

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_04]: but I remember at that point having a recurring dream of like

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_04]: there was some opportunity I was going to get back into the game.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And the thing that really might have messed with my head was we were at Ponderosa

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and they were showing they showed us from Survivor Pearl Islands.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_04]: This was what was airing at the time.

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_04]: We left six episodes into Survivor Pearl Islands.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And the next episode was the outcast twist where the people that got voted out got

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and they were like we were at the same Ponderosa that they were at.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And Jeff had said like on day like, hey, just so you know, nobody's coming back

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_04]: in this game. We did it last season.

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_04]: We're never doing it again.

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_04]: So but I was like really like I just kept having the dream of like

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to have another chance.

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to get back into the game and I had another opportunity.

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was so hard for me to come to grips with that,

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_04]: that it was over.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And this was it.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think in the back of my head, I was like, well,

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm still on Survivor All-Stars.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm still going to be on the like popular show.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Like this is going to be the biggest season.

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I was also I was very homesick also that I had

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I was in the very early days of dating my future wife.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I was basically, you know, six months of, you know,

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_04]: less than six months since we started dating.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I was like I was cut off from the world.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I could not communicate with anybody.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I was very like my my mom had a 50th birthday party that my family was

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_04]: planning, that I was missing being at Ponder.

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_04]: It's one thing to miss something when you're on Survivor.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_04]: But then, you know, to miss it at Ponder,

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_04]: miss big things and you're at Ponderosa or not even at Ponderosa.

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I was just really, you know, very, very sick.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I could not wait to get out of there.

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't. I, you know, I'm lucky enough,

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess, to have not had the bad experience that quote unquote

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_02]: bad didn't go well, survivor experience.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So to have the juxtaposition of those two things in the same year, year and a half.

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_04]: But can I also add that like,

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I was very caught up in like, whoa, is me.

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I recently I did an interview with Tina recently.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_04]: She was on talking with T-Bird and we were talking about this experience

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and, you know, I remember feeling at the time like, oh, like,

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, Tina does not even being like and Tina who went out first.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, but she's at least she won the game like,

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_04]: like, you know, maybe she'll she'll try to make me feel better.

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And she wasn't super interested in like, I don't blame her for that.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But she made the best of the most out of that experience.

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And she went on all the adventures and like really,

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, Tina is somebody who's had so unspeakable setbacks in her life.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's something that I really admire about her, about like that she

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_04]: just went about like trying to make the best out of a bad experience.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And at least for me, at that particular point in my life,

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I was unable to do that.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I was I was miserable and, you know, really just like

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_04]: wallowing in that misery of that I had lost on a game show.

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, OK.

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we can compare and contrast who handled what

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and how it compares to all of those things.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But Tina's experience of making the best out of it is equally

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_02]: legitimate as your experience as a 25 year old kid

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_02]: who just got on this huge fucking television show,

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_02]: who had it go pretty well, who had big high hopes and then it did not.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like that is just as equal and legitimate of experience to have.

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So I would I would hesitate to put the pressure on yourself

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_02]: to say you should have handled it better.

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I just think that there was probably things that I could have done.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_04]: As I look back on it, I like I have like some embarrassment over

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_04]: like how I just was like drinking, smoking,

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_04]: just like like, well, effort like I'm like I'm pissed.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You know? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Shouldn't it shouldn't happen this way?

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds kind of fun to me.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. I know.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't feel like and I love Rudy.

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Rudy was absolutely like that's I treasure that time with with Rudy.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think that maybe if there was like other younger people there.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. I mean, come on.

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You were like just out of college.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_02]: You're on this huge stage at the time.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It's bigger than ever.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, those of us now,

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_02]: 40 some seasons later are not handling it any better.

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're handing handling it differently, but not handling it any better.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So to I mean, I could I have to be careful because I could ask

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_02]: about every single week of your life to get to where you are now.

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm going to try to keep us keep us moving forward,

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_02]: even though I am incessantly interested and I know a lot of people.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So when you say you're you're in this misery of it not going as well,

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you come home, then you have to wait for it to air was having it air

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_02]: as you didn't do well, painful or have you kind of worked through some of that?

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_04]: By then, it was painful because I felt like that there was a lot of like

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_04]: then the press started to come out, the media started to come out.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And then people were like really excited that I was going to be on.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think the people thought I was going to do well on the show.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Like there was like a lot of like preseason picks and stuff like that.

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that people thought that I was going to,

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, go far potentially in the game.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_04]: But then the episode started

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_04]: and I really wasn't getting a lot of screen time in the episodes.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I was somebody who I like,

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that for some time, like I had the record for like

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_04]: the most confessionals, like in a season from Survivor, the Amazon.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And to go from that to then getting almost nothing.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I knew I was my time was short.

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And also I was not getting a lot of screen

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_04]: and a little bit of screen time that I got.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I felt like that they were mischaracterizing,

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_04]: at least from my perspective, what was happening.

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought that I had been painted to be lazy around the camp.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And I would say, you know, I think anybody who, you know, knows me,

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_04]: knows that like I'm probably like, I don't think lazy is the right word

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_04]: to describe me, and especially when I felt like there were other people

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_04]: that were just sleeping in the shelter all day.

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, you know, OK, Tom, OK, Sue, what do you need?

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_04]: What do you need? What do you need?

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, and I'm working very hard in my opinion

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_04]: to have it be characterized.

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, you know, for the first time in my life,

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_04]: like that's not what happened.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I do feel like that in my current life,

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_04]: like I feel like that I'm able to because I've had these two different

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_04]: experiences, like I feel like I can relate to almost anybody

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_04]: that goes through the show because I had the time where everything went great

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_04]: and I got the good at it.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I had the time where I felt like things did not go great

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_04]: and I did not get the edit that I thought I was going to get.

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I feel like that helps in being able to understand,

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, almost everybody that comes through this experience.

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_04]: But that being said, yeah, it was it was very disappointing.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Like the four the four episodes that were on,

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I felt like that, you know, did not, you know,

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_04]: you could be on four episodes and make a real mark on the show.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, with all these big personalities,

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_04]: especially also my tribe, like they they won one one until they didn't.

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, if you don't go to travel, you don't get track out.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like the editors have to find like the easiest,

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_02]: most whatever way to like have your story be told.

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you think?

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You said it has helped you relate to everyone who comes out of the experience.

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_02]: If you had only played the first time.

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_02]: There was no all stars and your life had still gone the track

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_02]: of becoming a podcaster about Survivor.

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think R.H.P. would be set up differently and experienced differently?

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And you would talk completely differently about the show.

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Did the other side of the coin have to happen in your path

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_02]: to make R.H.P. what it is today?

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_04]: That's a really good question.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it probably did because

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_04]: it really put me on like a very different path of what what comes next.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And what that ends up being is I was as disappointed

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_04]: as I was about the game ending the way it did for me,

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, in the weeks that followed,

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I found myself in like a, you know,

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_04]: very, you know, deep state of despair after the season was over

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_04]: because I had my whole life planned out of what was going to happen

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_04]: after Survivor All Stars.

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And then it was very clear that that was not happening.

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I was not going to, you know, be this celebrated person

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_04]: that the world was my oyster and I was going to be able to pick

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_04]: from whatever opportunity was going to come up.

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I had a little bit of cash and like people at least

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_04]: like kind of knew me because I was on Survivor in the last couple of years.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And hopefully they remembered, you know, some of the things

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_04]: from the first time I played.

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_04]: But I didn't see a path of what was going to happen.

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was I mean, and, you know,

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I have to say like kudos to my wife,

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_04]: who did not just like just,

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, break up with me at this time of just being like

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_04]: in like a really like, you know, feeling bad for myself

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_04]: and not knowing what I was going to do and just being in a very like,

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, depressive state for the insurance firm.

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They kept no idea.

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I never went back.

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I never went back.

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And I remember like my friend who still worked there was like,

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_04]: hey, the boss wants to when are you coming back?

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_04]: When are you going to like give up this whole like survivor thing?

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, oh, you know, now I'm never coming back.

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_04]: How about that?

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, I got to find like it has got to be some thing,

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, some place for me.

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And I ended up getting an email from a producer

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_04]: who was working in California,

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_04]: who was working on an idea to take people that had been on reality TV

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_04]: and to work on like entertainment projects with them.

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And it really just seemed like what I had been waiting for,

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_04]: what I'd been hoping for.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And I went out to L.A.

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_04]: and it was July of 2004,

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_04]: and I ended up having like a really great meeting with them

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and they were big reality TV fans

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_04]: and they were working on this thing called the fishbowl

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_04]: to like take people who were kind of famous from reality TV

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_04]: and then work on other projects with them

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_04]: and make a website about what they were doing.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, I need to be involved with this.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I was working remotely with them.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And then in the fall of that year,

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_04]: they had asked me to come and move to California

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_04]: and work full time with them.

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was really in a very difficult position

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_04]: where there was nothing I wanted to do more.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But I just started.

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I was a year into dating my now wife

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and I had to like make a decision about what do I do?

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I chose to go to California

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_04]: and she was not happy with that decision.

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm hmm.

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And she was in nursing school and I said that she

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_04]: she should stay and finish nursing school and not

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_04]: drop out of the nursing school.

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_04]: About a year, about a year.

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I said, OK, well, we could go and be long distance

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_04]: and, you know, we'll make it will make this work.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And she's like, you're breaking up with me.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I'm not. I'm not.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And we can we can make this work.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And she said she was very angry about this.

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, we did make it work.

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, she was, you know, rightfully

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: rough year for the relationship.

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_04]: It was and it wasn't.

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that she really liked the idea of like coming to.

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it was at first.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And then and there were and there were times where it was hard

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_04]: with time difference and everything.

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, she visited probably, you know, like,

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, eight or nine times where she would come and stay.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, it was, you know, you know, very,

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, very nice.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And about a year and a half later,

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, after I went to L.A.

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_04]: initially, she ends up, you know, also coming out there with me.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you enjoy that job?

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you like being in L.A.?

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_02]: What was it?

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Was it at this point, you're like, OK, this I'm doing what I'm doing.

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you still feeling the despair of being?

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_04]: That that was like this this other opportunity

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_04]: that I had was like the like I just was like

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_04]: in despair over it.

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Like it was not that I did not care about.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I cared about losing a survivor, but yeah, it was more that what

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_04]: where is my my life going?

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I have no path.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And this opened up a world of possibilities for me of like,

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I am now, you know, working in entertainment,

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_04]: doing something that I feel like that I've been waiting my whole life

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_04]: to get the chance to do this.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And I got it was a very fun time in 2004

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_04]: in Los Angeles where like you like there were not a million reality stars.

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was like exciting to see all the people from like,

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_04]: oh, this person from Big Brother and this person from what was your job?

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Like what were you specifically doing?

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Really, what it started doing was that they had this.

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It was they called it a radio show.

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was basically like it was, you know, sort of like the prototype

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_04]: of Robert's podcast.

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And I used to do a survivor, you know, interview show like it was during

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_04]: during Survivor Vanuatu.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And I would I was cohosting with Jenna Lewis,

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_04]: who was from who is, you know, a very, very good host.

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And did interviews with

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_04]: survivor players about what was happening in Survivor Vanuatu.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_04]: So, I mean, in a way like this is like 20 years that I've been doing

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_04]: this type of thing. Yeah.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So this is in 2005, you say your 2004.

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_04]: It was yeah, I started in the fall of 2004, 2004.

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What was your first podcast that you put out on your own?

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: An episode with Steven, I don't even know.

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know the beginning.

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_04]: The first episode of Robert's podcast.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_04]: That was really in.

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So that the very short version of the company

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_04]: that was doing stuff with reality stars predictably went out of business.

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I was working with those guys on a new company and we were producing like

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_04]: we got into the YouTube,

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_04]: like very early producing like web series.

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was going well for a bit.

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And then in 2008, there was the global financial crisis.

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And we ended up losing college in December of 2008.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a great time.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. And so, as you know, it was very hard to find work at that time.

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I basically had like a year and a half of being unemployed,

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_04]: like going on like job interviews and like looking at like job postings.

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_04]: But ultimately, I was doing two things.

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I was I was working on like I wanted to be a writer for TV.

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was working on like taking classes and working on scripts

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_04]: to send out to be a writer for TV.

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And I felt like that too, you know, I needed to get my my name out there

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: for the job postings or for if I ever like anybody was ever going to look at my stuff.

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I needed to have like a blog or a place to post things.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I started Rob has a website dot com in 2009.

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And then later on in that year, I said, OK, oh, you know what?

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I like podcasts. I had been listening to podcasts.

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I said, OK, I'll just like call up my friends and talk to them.

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I started like posting Rob has a podcast,

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_04]: which was just like me talking to anybody that would let me talk to them.

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Most a lot of it was talking to my wife.

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was very bare bones, like very like

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_04]: not not well produced or anything like that.

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_04]: There was maybe like 20 people listening on my Facebook page.

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And then in 2010,

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_04]: that Survivor Heroes versus Villains was coming on.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And there was a lot of buzz around Survivor Heroes versus Villains.

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And I had gone to the Survivor 10 year anniversary party.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And it is crazy that they made such a big deal about Survivor from,

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, survivor, survivor 10 year anniversary.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_04]: But now just to like to go back from now of like like 10 years is like

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_04]: when when your survivor was on

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Survivor 10 years was when my survivor was on.

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that right? Is that?

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm sorry. That's all right.

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_04]: That's all right. That's 10 seasons ago.

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_04]: That's 10 seasons ago. Yeah.

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_04]: But 10 years ago is not that is is like 10 years ago is what?

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_04]: That's when Kageyan was on.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Halfway halfway. Yeah.

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_04]: So and the pandemic screws up the math, in fairness to me.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: On that. But it's OK. I.

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, the survivor Heroes versus Villains was coming on.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I said, OK, well, I guess this is like a chance to get some attention

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and maybe people will check out my stuff.

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I started in the first episode of Heroes versus Villains

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_04]: was the first real episode of Rob is a podcast.

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, OK. So you had been putting.

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_04]: February 12th, 2010.

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: February 12th, 2010.

[01:09:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Can people still go out and listen to it if they want to?

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Or is it? No, they cannot.

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_02]: No, they cannot.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: No, they cannot by choice.

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_04]: I that both.

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, a lot of this stuff is like the.

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: You know.

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what the hell people were saying 15 years ago on podcasts

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_04]: that it doesn't sound good.

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Listen, like we were not ready.

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_02]: No one was ready.

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And even if you were ready, it still wouldn't be OK.

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever it was that was being said.

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know. I don't know.

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Probably not.

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to tear yourself down that you weren't ready

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and it wasn't good enough and blah, blah, blah.

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It just the things don't really.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, go back and watch Survivor from 2010.

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It does not stand the test of time.

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Or 2003 or 2003.

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So you start in 2010 with your first.

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Rob has a podcast episode.

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And now here we are 15 years later

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and you've created an entire podcasting network

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: that is providing content across all sorts of television,

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: reality TV experiences like it has come a long way.

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And we could do a different episode on that.

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But what when you set out and you recorded that first podcast

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: that many years ago, did you envision this whole network piece?

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Or it was just one thing at a time?

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there was never any plan.

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I guess that, you know, I've had like a lot of different

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_04]: experiences where I've tried a lot of different things.

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And I have to say that Rob's podcast is probably a little bit more

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_04]: like the Survivor Amazon and Survivor All Stars of like, I expected nothing.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Really, I did not think that did not think that people would even listen.

[01:11:38] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I just thought that, OK, this is something.

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And then when I go for a job interview that then I remember

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_04]: that I worked with a guy who he had a web series.

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I felt like, oh, he was such a like a hot commodity

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_04]: of everybody wanted to hire this guy because he was

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_04]: he was producing something on his own.

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I felt like I needed to be producing something

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_04]: to get hired to go work for somebody else.

[01:12:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it was like, OK, well, I'll have these podcasts that are up

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_04]: and this will maybe attract attention.

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And also I had nothing else going on.

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I was not doing anything.

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And so this was like a good use of my time

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_04]: to also then learn a lot of skills.

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I learned how to do the website.

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I learned how to market. I learned how to edit.

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_04]: So I felt like that I was wearing a lot of different hats

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and it was, you know, a great time to there's a lot of excitement

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_04]: about Survivor.

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it was a great opportunity for me.

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But there was every single thing that came out of this was like

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_04]: there was no like big plan of what this could have been.

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, nobody in 2010

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_04]: could have seen what podcasting was going to be like.

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you were you?

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You can raise the white flag anytime.

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Were you just naturally it started to make money

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: as you were creating and so therefore you could follow it?

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Or were there points in time where you were like,

[01:13:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm loving what I'm doing, but it's not making money.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to turn this into revenue if I'm going to keep doing it.

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I never really thought about money for a while.

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I remember in 2011, I put like some an ad on the website,

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_04]: like a Google ad on the website.

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, oh, people are going to think I'm a sellout now

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_04]: because now I'm putting a Google ad on the website.

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_04]: But at the time I was like, OK, well, let me see what we did.

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And nobody nobody complained about anything there.

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And then it was really in.

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I needed to get more serious about this.

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's not like a direct correlation, but in 2011,

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_04]: at the end of 2011, my dad died and it was a very it was very sudden.

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was a real big,

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, I don't say turning point, but it was a real like to me.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_04]: This was like a point of a little bit of a wake up call.

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, I need to be like serious about this.

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I need to like provide for my family.

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_04]: My dad was a police officer in New York City and he worked for 27 years

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_04]: and worked very hard to provide for his family.

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And Nicole was working at the hospital and was as a nurse.

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But I really felt like I need to bring home, like,

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, if I'm going to do this, like I need to be serious about it.

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And like I can't just like this can't just be like a hobby.

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I ended up really like dedicating myself in 2012 to building this thing up.

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And there were some other ways that we

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_04]: had like affiliate ads for like shopping on Amazon and little things like that.

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_04]: We didn't have any podcast sponsors still for a while.

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_04]: But that was something where I really started to say, like, we have to.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I also I think I had almost no money coming in.

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Also, at this point, I had gone back to work.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that then by the summer of 2012,

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I think I would have been out of work again.

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So you had gone back to working outside of yourself.

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I worked for someone else.

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I was yes, I was working like part time,

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, doing like social media work for some companies.

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think that like by the summer

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_04]: of 2012, I think I was kind of just out of work.

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, I think people forget who are wanting to build their own business or have a dream

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: about creating their podcast or I assume people who are listening are interested in.

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: They have a dream and an idea and a hobby,

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and whether it's in TV or something else, the time between when you're

[01:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: working really hard on something and when it becomes what our HAP is today,

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: a successful business, forget that there were years

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_02]: between where you were doing this without making money,

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: that you were having to get other jobs.

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: What kept you going?

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And did you have you just always loved this piece of it?

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it kept you going even though you were not.

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I love to do it.

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_04]: This has been the great joy of my professional life to get to do this.

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, that making this podcast, I really feel like that in a lot of ways,

[01:16:29] [SPEAKER_04]: this is what I was put here to do.

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I'm very creatively fulfilled by doing the podcast.

[01:16:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But I just also and this is a reason why I struggled so much with writing.

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_04]: When you're a writer that unless you have like some kind of like a blog,

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm very motivated by, oh, well, everybody's going to be mad if I don't

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_04]: do this. And so that if Survivor came on and then I'm doing this every single week,

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like if I don't make a podcast episode, people will be very disappointed.

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't want to let anybody down.

[01:17:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't want to feel that embarrassment, guilt.

[01:17:12] [SPEAKER_04]: They're right. Where's the podcast?

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that was very motivating for me, especially early on.

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I never skipped a week,

[01:17:22] [SPEAKER_04]: never said like unless there was like some like extenuating circumstances.

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we still figured out a time to make it up.

[01:17:29] [SPEAKER_04]: But it was people could rely on it.

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like that's something that we've been pretty good about over the

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: years. Yeah, I would say I don't remember.

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, from the time that I started

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: listening in 2015, I guess there wasn't ever a question as a listener

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: like whether or not there was an episode coming out.

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So reliability,

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: you attribute it to reliability.

[01:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You attribute it to some guilt.

[01:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to let anyone down.

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not wanting to let anyone down.

[01:17:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want losing your dad and wanting to be able to bring money

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_02]: home to raise your family. When was your first son born?

[01:18:08] [SPEAKER_04]: So my so yeah, my son Dominic was born in September of 2013.

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So we found out that my wife was pregnant in

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_04]: the January of 2013.

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was also a big thing where it's like, OK, well, I really need to

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_04]: and I had gone back to like work at a different job in 2013.

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And I got fired right after Dominic was born.

[01:18:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I got a little bit laid off.

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_04]: The people that were working in the video department in the like the first

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_04]: week of December, I just felt like such a loser.

[01:18:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, oh, like I'm a dad and I have no job and I got fired right before

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Christmas and I just was like very, you know, and and I didn't I was like

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_04]: caught between like, do I go find another job or do I go all in on making

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_04]: the podcast? And my wife, who is like very supportive on the big things

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_04]: like never batted and very small, insignificant things.

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_04]: She she might she might not take that well.

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_04]: The big things she takes very, very well.

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And she was like she supported me fully.

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And I said I was going to really go all in on making the podcast.

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And that basically like a month later was when we started the Patreon.

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's all these things that are 10 years that actually are 10 years ago

[01:19:37] [SPEAKER_04]: that we started doing the Patreon.

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was very scared and nervous to ask people to support the podcast.

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_04]: People were so happy to be able to like they that they love this thing and they

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_04]: didn't want it to go away and you know, we really have never turned back.

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So you went you were if I just calculated right, there's been 20 years of Rob has a website

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_04]: and 20 years of me talking about Survivor.

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 20 years of you talking about Survivor.

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And it took through year 10 halfway for you to theoretically you could have turned

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: on the faucet earlier, maybe gone all in a little earlier, whatever.

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's a very squiggly line between 2004 and 2014.

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I feel that between 2010 and 2014 is really when I worked on building

[01:20:29] [SPEAKER_04]: this thing, you know, really, and was not

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_04]: being a lot of fruit that came out of it.

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And in 2015, how many hours of podcasts were coming out per week on our HP?

[01:20:44] [SPEAKER_04]: That's a hard question because I think

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_04]: because we had started the network in 2014 that we started.

[01:20:52] [SPEAKER_04]: We made reality TV for half ups and we had The Bachelor to half up and we

[01:20:56] [SPEAKER_04]: had the challenge to half up, and that was really the first time

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_04]: that there were podcasts that were coming out that were not from me.

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And we also started post show recaps in that year also.

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_04]: So 2014 is the first year that podcasts are coming out,

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_04]: but they're not all hosted by me. And so I go back a little further.

[01:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Like in 2010, how many hours of podcasts are coming out?

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, basically maybe two, two hours a week during the season.

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, and then by 2015, you have all of these other podcasts going.

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you ballpark 1520?

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And then now, where are you?

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Ballpark? No idea.

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. A week?

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. I feel like I'm probably putting out like,

[01:21:41] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, maybe like eight, ten hours a day.

[01:21:43] [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know, maybe like 70, 80 hours a week.

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if you include push a recap

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_04]: also like the script and stuff, I don't know, maybe 100 hours a week.

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: What what is that like to think?

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you didn't have the number off the top of your head,

[01:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: so it doesn't seem like you're sitting around thinking all the time.

[01:22:01] [SPEAKER_02]: How many hours per week are coming out?

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So what does it feel like to have the spotlight put on over the last 15 years?

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You've gone from two hours to 15 to 50 now up to 100 hours a week of content

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: coming out on your network.

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Does that feel like to pause and think on?

[01:22:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it is wild to think about the exponential growth of it

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_04]: in some ways, like I think I feel like that there was more pressure

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_04]: on the two hours because I feel like that in a world where we're putting out two

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_04]: hours of podcasting, the rest of the world is only putting out

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_04]: so many hours of podcasting and chances are people might remember things

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_04]: from those two hours of podcasting like more viscerally than they might

[01:22:47] [SPEAKER_04]: from anything from the 100 hours of podcasting that we're doing this week.

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that everything felt more important than now.

[01:22:58] [SPEAKER_04]: If we have a bad podcast, OK, we have a bad podcast.

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_04]: People understand and we move on to the next one.

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So it is remarkable to think about the growth and all the people that are

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_04]: involved with just getting out one podcast as opposed to when I used

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_04]: to be the only person who was there to try to get this thing out.

[01:23:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I felt like it was all on my back.

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_04]: But now it's really shared across

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_04]: the eight to ten people required to get these podcasts from what's

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_04]: happening in this room to when you're hearing it on your device.

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it is eight to ten people that are putting it out from

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_02]: people recording to the final product to listening in people's ears.

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So I understand that it's a team effort, but it is the Rob has a podcast

[01:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: experience from Rob Sestor Nino, who wanted to be on Big Brother.

[01:23:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you got to meet the people at

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: the Survivor Party and then you got to go and start talking about it.

[01:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And people started listening.

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_02]: People like me started listening.

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: We started to turn into it makes me emotional, which is maybe not your jam.

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But to think about you were suffering in Patagonia.

[01:24:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But then one day in the mid 2010s,

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm listening to the podcast and calling in.

[01:24:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And my most exciting moment was to leave the voicemail on your show.

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And then now here I am every week

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: getting to talk to survivors and do what I'm doing.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And the mountain in which you have helped my survivor dreams come true is

[01:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: a massive impact on my life.

[01:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder if I don't know that you'll ever be able to see all of that.

[01:24:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But I at least wanted to say that to you,

[01:24:48] [SPEAKER_02]: how meaningful it is to me.

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And I know so many other people, even if we're just guests after being

[01:24:56] [SPEAKER_02]: on the show, to like be a part of what you've created.

[01:24:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's life changing.

[01:25:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Really, I really appreciate that.

[01:25:02] [SPEAKER_04]: That's so amazing for you to frame it that way.

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think what you do is really

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_04]: amazing because I don't think anybody else has really like chronicled a lot

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_04]: of what the survivor experience is like for the people who go through it.

[01:25:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And like the not just a window that you

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: provide into that, but also I think that it is helpful for people

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_04]: to get the space to be able to talk about that experience is really amazing.

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I just think that what we have here is really cool.

[01:25:35] [SPEAKER_04]: If you think about it,

[01:25:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think that necessarily like all other industries have this space where

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Rob is a podcast is not owned by a network or like some hedge fund or a company

[01:25:49] [SPEAKER_04]: where that we have a space that's really

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_04]: for people who love this thing.

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And a lot of it is by people that love this thing and the people that are

[01:26:00] [SPEAKER_04]: like actually from this thing.

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And we have a space where we can talk about whatever we want as it pertains

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_04]: to this world of reality TV and not every sort of space or not every kind of like

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_04]: fandom has that type of space.

[01:26:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And I just think it's really unique like that.

[01:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Unique and like how much R.H.A.P.

[01:26:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and Rob has a podcast is a piece of that.

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Like

[01:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: it is the island in which this experience

[01:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: happens for us is because you set out one day to talk about Survivor because you

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_02]: loved it. Like and I imagine that you've had

[01:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm sure you cannot say, but I imagine that there are business

[01:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: decisions that you have had to make to keep this space as safe and open and.

[01:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Free as it is for me to be able to go

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: email and podcast with people who are telling their experience for me to be able

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: to ask you genuinely these questions.

[01:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I imagine there have been business decisions you've had to make to uphold

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: the wall for us to maintain this space.

[01:27:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if I would necessarily

[01:27:18] [SPEAKER_04]: frame it that way in terms of like a business decision.

[01:27:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I think we make content decisions that may or may not like

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_04]: affect who who this is for and who it's not for.

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't think I ever like thought about it like as like a purely like

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_04]: business decision, you know, we have to make a lot of like

[01:27:38] [SPEAKER_04]: editorial decisions about what do we want to talk about?

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, who do we want to talk to?

[01:27:46] [SPEAKER_04]: But I really I just I look to the audience to make those decisions.

[01:27:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's most specifically like I really look to the patrons of the podcast,

[01:27:56] [SPEAKER_04]: the people who are sort of like our biggest supporters and advocates of like,

[01:28:01] [SPEAKER_04]: what is the type of show that they want us to do?

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you can keep.

[01:28:09] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, yes, I hear you.

[01:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I won't step down off of the idea that I won't back off the idea that this

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: is your creation and what you have decided to do with your life and your

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_02]: business that has allowed us all this island of fandom and platform and

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: experiences and these parties, not to say that other people wouldn't have had

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: them, but like the live event, I mean, going to a have con in 2015,

[01:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: going to these live events and being together and seeing other survivor fans

[01:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and having this platform to be able to be ourselves and connect,

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: especially given the world out there is such a shit place to be as a survivor.

[01:28:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes it's so exciting to be able to be a survivor and be a fan of

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Survivor in this safe space that is your creation like that is amazing to me.

[01:29:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the community is really important to me.

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's really, you know,

[01:29:07] [SPEAKER_04]: a lot of the secret sauce about what I want this to be the interactivity

[01:29:12] [SPEAKER_04]: and the community like when we started in 2014, where, you know,

[01:29:16] [SPEAKER_04]: we put the Patreon together for the first time.

[01:29:19] [SPEAKER_04]: We had this Facebook group where people for the first time were able to connect

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and talk to each other about the thing that they were so passionate about.

[01:29:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And while like there are like the Internet gives like the average fan

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_04]: like a bad rap because there is such horrible behavior of people that are

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, cloaked in anonymity that I feel like that in the people that I've gotten

[01:29:48] [SPEAKER_04]: to encounter, you know, for the most part have been far and away just like,

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, incredibly appreciative of what we do and is very excited just to play

[01:30:00] [SPEAKER_04]: in this space with us. And so that's who it's for.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, not for necessarily like

[01:30:06] [SPEAKER_04]: the, you know, the haters.

[01:30:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't think that there's a business catering to the haters.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_04]: The business is catering to the people that love this content.

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And you, you, the face of it being the super fan who went through it,

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: got to live out the dream and then gave us all the platform to talk about it.

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just it's a really beautiful.

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Story, that doesn't even seem real like the boy who wanted to be on

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: TV and then here you are, who is then it's like meta in the sense of like

[01:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: then I was a girl who saw you do it and wanted to be on a podcast.

[01:30:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And then here we all are.

[01:30:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a miracle to me.

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder and a bunch of hard work.

[01:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe you do feel it every day,

[01:30:56] [SPEAKER_02]: but I'm not sure that you let yourself take in all that you've done for all

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_04]: of us. So I don't know if I necessarily take it in as much.

[01:31:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I do try to be very appreciative of what I get to do and how blessed I have been

[01:31:14] [SPEAKER_04]: to be able to spend this time.

[01:31:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I get to collaborate with so many fun people and that this really is just

[01:31:24] [SPEAKER_04]: more than I ever could have dreamt that I've gotten out of this survivor

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_04]: experience.

[01:31:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just so like it just blows my mind,

[01:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: thinking and getting prepared for it.

[01:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Just maybe I'm seeing it too much through my lens of like.

[01:31:41] [SPEAKER_02]: God, Rob, I was an R.H.A.P.

[01:31:44] [SPEAKER_02]: fangirl, you know, and it's like I'm one person who is just willing

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: or you gave me the time to get to like fangirl on all over you and to

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: take the time to say it, but.

[01:31:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't tell you how many people who

[01:32:00] [SPEAKER_02]: played survivor since I played that are like at some point in the process,

[01:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: whether they just got back or they're getting ready to go play that.

[01:32:08] [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, oh my God, I just realized I get to be on R.H.A.P.

[01:32:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it is.

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: An official checkbox of being a survivor now to get to be on R.H.A.P.

[01:32:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, that's incredible.

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: No more just about getting to go

[01:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: to the parties and getting to you get to be on the

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_04]: immunity with all the podcasters.

[01:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: You get to be on a podcast with all the podcasters.

[01:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, so I'm thankful and

[01:32:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of people listening are as well.

[01:32:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So thanks for being the creator and like

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_02]: upholder of this community that gives us all this space and

[01:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: being willing to fight for it and have those shitty times in the cabin

[01:32:58] [SPEAKER_02]: in Patagonia and getting fired and doing all of it, but continuing to work

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and put your heart and soul and blood and tears, maybe, maybe tears.

[01:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know into this year.

[01:33:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:33:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think the times that I was

[01:33:11] [SPEAKER_04]: the most down were the times that I just I didn't know where I was going next.

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And I felt like that I had sort of like lost my way.

[01:33:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that that's been

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm not going to say that it doesn't happen with this, too, of like I'm always

[01:33:27] [SPEAKER_04]: trying to think about like, oh, what do we do next?

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And how do we keep this going?

[01:33:32] [SPEAKER_04]: How do we make this better?

[01:33:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, how do we know where where is what's the next move and how do we

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_04]: improve on this?

[01:33:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And there are times I feel like that I don't know the way.

[01:33:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's probably also the time when I don't know what to do first.

[01:33:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's when I probably have my lowest moments with this.

[01:33:54] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, just I feel like that whenever I can connect with the audience

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and it's one of the reasons why I love to do like call in shows and connect

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_04]: with the people and we do live shows and I meet the people because it's often

[01:34:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to say it's lonely, but sometimes it's just me.

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Like it's me and you talking.

[01:34:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And it doesn't feel like I don't always feel like the people

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_04]: that are out there are there.

[01:34:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:34:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why I'm always asking for comments and interactivity.

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's kind of stuff that like, oh, yeah, like there's this whole world

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_04]: of people that are listening and they're part of this too.

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what really drives me because just like where I put out a

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_04]: podcast every single week, I don't want to let anybody down.

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to keep making this the best it can be and make people

[01:34:47] [SPEAKER_04]: proud that they are listeners to R.H.P.

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting to think about all the places you've been in

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_02]: all the places you've been while in listeners ears like I mean with me,

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: like in the Bahamas, you've been with me in Thailand.

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You've been with me in my car driving back and forth to work in Denver and in

[01:35:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Chicago, I've been all over the place.

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You've been all over the world, literally.

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we are all with you in your in your recording room.

[01:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's hard to remember sometimes.

[01:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It is hard to remember.

[01:35:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:35:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And I appreciate it so much that I think that like the best moment I get

[01:35:33] [SPEAKER_04]: to have is when I go to like the events and then people will like,

[01:35:38] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, tell me, you know, in, you know, it's just me and a person.

[01:35:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And this happens

[01:35:45] [SPEAKER_04]: like, you know, a lot when I when I travel,

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_04]: the people tell me how much the podcast means.

[01:35:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's just like a really beautiful moment that I get

[01:35:55] [SPEAKER_04]: to hear from people just, you know, how this this because I always will

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_04]: describe this as nonsense what we get to do because there's like really like,

[01:36:05] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, and not to trivialize anything that we that we that we do.

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, we're also, you know,

[01:36:13] [SPEAKER_04]: that it's not life and death what we talk about on the podcast.

[01:36:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, and I'll often describe it as nonsense.

[01:36:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But to hear from people that, you know, this was like something that

[01:36:27] [SPEAKER_04]: was meaningful to them at certain at different points in their life,

[01:36:32] [SPEAKER_04]: like it's just very special.

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I can remember when I fucking hated my job.

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God. And in Chicago and I had started listening to R.J.P.

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_02]: My brother told me to listen and I can

[01:36:46] [SPEAKER_02]: remember feeling like on because it was Wednesday night then by then.

[01:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But getting up on Thursday morning,

[01:36:52] [SPEAKER_02]: like the only day work week day that I was excited to get out of bed

[01:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: because no one else was going to be there to listen to.

[01:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Like there were definite times where it was like, oh, my God,

[01:37:02] [SPEAKER_02]: it's Wednesday night. I get to watch the show.

[01:37:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Thursday morning, I can't wait

[01:37:06] [SPEAKER_02]: to wake up and get on the train and slug through the fucking Chicago snow

[01:37:10] [SPEAKER_02]: because I was going to listen to the to the show.

[01:37:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm sure that there are countless.

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Thousands of stories that you have helped people through,

[01:37:20] [SPEAKER_02]: even if you don't always get to hear them.

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for all that you've done and thank you for being with me here

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_02]: today, letting me poke in to your life and what you were thinking

[01:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: at certain points of the survivor process.

[01:37:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so thrilled.

[01:37:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I learned so much that I didn't know.

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's really interesting and helpful for me to understand where you're

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_02]: coming from, it makes it all the more exciting to be able to be doing this.

[01:37:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate that.

[01:37:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And I really just I can't speak highly enough about the series

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_04]: that you've done because I just think it's such a fresh

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_04]: take on just the idea of like the survivor interview where you really

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_04]: spend this time talking about like

[01:38:00] [SPEAKER_04]: what the impact of the show is more so than what happened on the actual show.

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And in a lot of ways, you know, that's that's so interesting to hear

[01:38:12] [SPEAKER_04]: where this because everybody comes on the show.

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Some people have a good experience, some people have bad experience.

[01:38:18] [SPEAKER_04]: But to find out like the ways that the show is like changing people's lives

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and the impact that the show has on people's lives, I think is just

[01:38:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I never get tired of hearing those types of stories.

[01:38:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. Well, we'll see.

[01:38:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I have some great stuff in this season already.

[01:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's really exciting with

[01:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I just interviewed Jatia,

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_02]: amazing human being and talk about somebody whose survivor experience was

[01:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: such a thing, like such a just a moment, I guess.

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Literally, her survivor experience is such a moment.

[01:38:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And then she has an entire incredible life experience and life story.

[01:39:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So survivors out there doing all the hard work,

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: doing all of this casting and all these things, pulling together people who are

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: going to do who have already done and who are going to do great things like

[01:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you, and I'm just lucky to get to hear it and to be a part of it with my

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_02]: endless curiosity as a forever survivor fan.

[01:39:20] So.

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, can't wait.

[01:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you, Rob.

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Is there anything else that you were

[01:39:28] [SPEAKER_02]: really hoping to get out today that you didn't get to touch on?

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. I feel like, you know, in one way or another,

[01:39:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like, you know, it's it's I can't see the forest for the trees

[01:39:41] [SPEAKER_04]: of like what is interesting in my journey.

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know,

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_04]: it's very interesting to look back at it with more context about the whole

[01:39:55] [SPEAKER_04]: thing and the thing that like really took me back was that, you know,

[01:40:00] [SPEAKER_04]: my grandfather, when he passed away and I got his car and his video camera.

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that without those two things,

[01:40:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I think this story would have been turned out much different.

[01:40:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[01:40:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, sweet.

[01:40:17] [SPEAKER_02]: What's your grandfather's name?

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_04]: It was Grandpa Fred.

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Grandpa Fred.

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I feel like I've heard you maybe talk about Grandpa Fred here and there

[01:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: throughout the years. So thank goodness he passed on that camera.

[01:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, Big Brother Rob

[01:40:32] [SPEAKER_04]: would always wanted a video camera because that was the closest that you

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_04]: could get to like being making TV was and, you know, I never, you know,

[01:40:43] [SPEAKER_04]: could have you didn't have a phone that you could just shoot video on.

[01:40:46] [SPEAKER_04]: So that was like as close as you could get was to get on like the

[01:40:50] [SPEAKER_04]: cassette tape ones or cassette tape like VHS tapes.

[01:40:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It was on the VHS tape.

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: That's funny.

[01:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, thank you so much.

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm letting off the hook on all on the 10 questions.

[01:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I got everything I needed for more answers for the 10 questions.

[01:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, y'all Saturn dealerships to get the DVD.

[01:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: What getting the invite to return for

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Survivor All-Stars at a Survivor Gala by Mark Burnett while sitting next to

[01:41:27] [SPEAKER_02]: somebody feeds Phil Phil.

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So many things in that sentence,

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_02]: it just blew up my mind.

[01:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: What an incredible story with an absolutely kind and generous person.

[01:41:41] [SPEAKER_02]: In my past career life, I've had the

[01:41:43] [SPEAKER_02]: opportunity to work with over 100, at least C-suite executive CEOs and chief

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: marketing officers and such, and I can tell you Rob is the kindest,

[01:41:53] [SPEAKER_02]: most careful and thoughtful leader I've worked with.

[01:41:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He trusted me with this project even when I didn't have podcast experience.

[01:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: He listened to my pitch.

[01:42:05] [SPEAKER_02]: When out of the blue, I emailed him and said, hey,

[01:42:08] [SPEAKER_02]: how about we have a podcast with survivors that isn't about Survivor at

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: all on your podcast network that was built on the show Survivor?

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: He deflected quite a bit while I was

[01:42:20] [SPEAKER_02]: talking about the impact that this network has had on me, other survivors and fans.

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But we've all listened to him as we've waited in line at the grocery store

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: on our commutes, on the train or in the car while working out.

[01:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, well, not me, but some of y'all, I'm sure.

[01:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: While doing chores, folding laundry,

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: doing dishes on airplanes as we've traveled all around the world.

[01:42:47] [SPEAKER_02]: At some point, completing the be a survivor checklist expanded to being on R.H.A.P.

[01:42:55] [SPEAKER_02]: For those of you that maybe missed season one of this pod, go back and

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: listen, there's not a survivor not worth listening to.

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_02]: If you ask me, you may have missed that I thought I had made it when I got

[01:43:06] [SPEAKER_02]: my voicemail played on the feedback show on R.H.A.P.

[01:43:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So deflected or not, Rob, if you're listening,

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_02]: just know that my survivor journey is grander, more fun,

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: more enjoyable and more rewarding because of you.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And this network has in this otherwise

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes lonely world filled my life with more friendship, comradery and community.

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And it has made me and thousands of others feel like we are part of something bigger.

[01:43:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you.

[01:43:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And while Rob is the leader of this whole thing,

[01:43:49] [SPEAKER_02]: none of this is possible without the other people, other survivor

[01:43:53] [SPEAKER_02]: contestants who are willing to put their stories and lives all out in public

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_02]: for our enjoyment and critique again after going through this rollercoaster

[01:44:01] [SPEAKER_02]: that they've all talked about, they're willing to jump on here with me so we

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_02]: can learn more about them. But it takes vulnerability and it is nerve racking.

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so thankful for each of the

[01:44:10] [SPEAKER_02]: survivors that have talked to me over the last two seasons.

[01:44:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And, of course,

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_02]: thanks to you all, the fans, the roadies, roadsters,

[01:44:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what should we should we make a name for us for being here

[01:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: for an entire new summer season in the Survivor offseason,

[01:44:27] [SPEAKER_02]: listening, rating, reviewing and reaching out.

[01:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: If you weren't here, I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't be able to do

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_02]: this project, which has been so near and dear to my heart and beyond my wildest

[01:44:39] [SPEAKER_02]: dreams. Thank you for listening.

[01:44:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So here we are at the end of August,

[01:44:45] [SPEAKER_02]: another season behind us, and it is time for Survivor 47.

[01:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Woo, everybody get ready.

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Season Survivor is back this fall for another season.

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a very good friend who's playing this fall.

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I will be cheering them on.

[01:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It's beyond my wildest imagination to get

[01:45:06] [SPEAKER_02]: to cheer on someone who I knew outside of the Survivor world to get to go and live

[01:45:11] [SPEAKER_02]: out this dream, and I can't wait for you to meet them either.

[01:45:15] [SPEAKER_02]: As far as me, you can find me on Instagram at TheKellenBee.

[01:45:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Also big news in my life, dropping it here.

[01:45:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It is happening between now and when

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_02]: this episode comes out, the official launch of my new business.

[01:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It is called the Career Coven.

[01:45:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It is a two on one coaching program between me and my new business partner, Alex.

[01:45:39] [SPEAKER_02]: We are focusing on people who want to live out sole aligned careers.

[01:45:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So whether you're looking for a new job

[01:45:46] [SPEAKER_02]: or you're building your solo entrepreneurial business, we are here to help you

[01:45:52] [SPEAKER_02]: get more in alignment and build more joy in your life and make money while

[01:45:57] [SPEAKER_02]: doing it. It is such a pleasure to those of you who listen to this podcast,

[01:46:02] [SPEAKER_02]: who are now my clients already, I appreciate y'all.

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And there are many of you who have

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_02]: messaged me and talked about how listening to some of the stuff about jobs

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_02]: have helped you reflect on your career, that you want more career content from me.

[01:46:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Check us out at thecareercoven.com or on Instagram and TikTok

[01:46:21] [SPEAKER_02]: at The Career Coven.

[01:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait to meet some of you through all of that.

[01:46:25] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll get free resources out as soon as humanly possible.

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, check out how you can work with me and Alex to build a sole aligned

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_02]: life through a new career path. OK, y'all.

[01:46:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much for being here.

[01:46:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate each and every one of you.

[01:46:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Here we go off to another Survivor season.

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Soak it up. Take care. Bye bye.

[01:46:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to thank Rob Sestrino

[01:46:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and the entire RHAP team for their support in making this podcast.

[01:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Jessica Sterling is the editor.

[01:46:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Turkey Rice created the artwork.

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_02]: To all of my fellow survivors, thank you for showing up for free to give me

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and all the listeners a look into your lives that we wouldn't otherwise get to see.

[01:47:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm much gratitude to all of you listening.

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to connect and only if you're kind,

[01:47:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you can find me on social media at TheKellenBee or at KellenBeckdahl.com

[01:47:18] [SPEAKER_02]: where I as a holistic career coach tried to give away as many free

[01:47:22] [SPEAKER_02]: resources as I can to help people find more happiness and success in their career

[01:47:27] [SPEAKER_02]: journeys. May each of your realities lead down a road of peace, joy and a whole lot

[01:47:33] [SPEAKER_02]: of adventure. And now here's Jacob Derwin with Mira from Manhattan.

[01:47:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Mira from Manhattan.

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Chelsea from Chelsea.

[01:47:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Krista from Columbus.

[01:47:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter much to me.

[01:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Now she's staring out the window.

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_01]: She's turning on the night.

[01:48:12] [SPEAKER_01]: She takes a pen to her new novel

[01:48:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and the airplane takes flight.

[01:48:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, I never knew.

[01:48:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, I never knew.

[01:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, I never knew.

[01:48:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, I never knew.

[01:48:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You.

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're flying out to Dublin

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_01]: just to stop along the trail.

[01:49:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Mira hops from there to Paris.

[01:49:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I ride to Belfast on the rail.

[01:49:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Now she's cheering in the winery.

[01:49:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm staring at the sea.

[01:49:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Mira from Manhattan.

[01:49:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter much to me.

[01:49:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, I never knew.

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, I never knew.

[01:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, I never knew.

[01:49:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I never knew.

[01:50:01] [SPEAKER_01]: You.

[01:50:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You.