Road to Reality | A Whole New Perspective with Dino Paulo

[00:00:00] Welcome to Road To Reality, the limited series where I, Helen Bechtel, go on a conversational journey with fellow survivor contestants about their real lives. In this 10-part series, we invite you to listen in on unscripted conversations that, crazy enough, aren't really about playing

[00:00:23] survivor but about being a person who was on survivor. These are deep dive conversations not into post-game strategy but into the lives of contestants before and after survivor and the experiences that shaped them into who they are today. So sit back, relax, and join me as we

[00:00:41] take a ride down the road to reality. Hey everybody, welcome back to episode 9 out of 10 for this limited series Road To Reality on Rob has a podcast. I am very excited today. I'm thrilled for us to be

[00:00:57] going down a new road completely, an international survivor road trip. I learned a ton about survivor today, how it's done the same, how it's different. Dino Paulo, the sole survivor of survivor South

[00:01:16] Africa Return Of The Outcasts is here with me today. That was season 9 of Survivor South Africa. He also previously competed on South Africa Immunity Island season 8. So he was on back-to-back seasons. We jump right into the conversation. We got on the call and immediately we are

[00:01:36] into the psychology of being on survivor. So you don't have to wait long to get into really meaty topics. We talk about how Dino sees himself still as a survivor fan only,

[00:01:47] about how a winning survivor made him question whether or not you have to be a sociopath to do what it takes to win a game of survivor. We talk about the psychological effects of the loved

[00:01:57] ones visit, compare and contrast how people used to get time to process between casting the votes and then reading the votes and having the finale months later. We talked to Dino about

[00:02:11] his personal life, what it's like to be a serial skydiver and his unique experience of going through South African casting a few different times including when a casting director came to his house.

[00:02:24] We go into quite a bit of casting advice for people who don't feel like they are natural at casting and also in general just digging into the experience of being a survivor. Dino talks

[00:02:35] a lot about the differences between survivor US and survivor SA but we find out through the discussion how incredibly similar of a human experience it truly was. I present to you the empathetic, playful, vulnerable and extremely thoughtful Dino Paolo. Oh my gosh I'm so excited!

[00:02:58] I'm a little nervous about this one. I feel like everyone else I know it all and so I feel more like I can curate the journey and now I feel like I'm just not quite as prepared to

[00:03:12] know everything. I don't know everything now! It's wild because I mean obviously from my side I've been like super super stoked and really excited but also feel this pressure it's like first international guest I'm like you there's so many so many great international guests that

[00:03:25] you could possibly pull on here. I'm like this weight is like on me and especially like in the lineup that you've had and that you've you know what I understand you've still got to come.

[00:03:35] I'm like dude to even be like in a lineup of those names blows my freaking mind so yeah this has been I've been excited but a hell of a lot nervous to have this chance as well.

[00:03:46] Well we'll just shake it out together any nerves that come up or if we say something silly we'll just cut it out so no pressure there. I guess we'll just get started with that then.

[00:04:01] When it's funny to me that you that you come here and saying like oh I'm looking at this list of guests and all the stuff and like who am I to be here and you're a winner of Survivor. You are

[00:04:15] a Survivor winner so what is the first instinct as to why one of these is not like the other in your mind but in my mind you're more deserved of being here than me. I you won the game so

[00:04:33] let's not throw the deserving word around. I've learned to the survivor circles we don't throw the deserving word around in survivor circles anymore I've learned but it's quite interesting. I would say that oh you know because that because Survivor is a much smaller franchise

[00:04:50] because it is on or was on a network that was pay TV but on a premium network so only affordable to a very limited group of people that had a smart or has or had a far smaller

[00:05:05] viewership so you know that in combination with our smaller population Survivor is not as big as what it is in the US right and the US Survivors the Holy Grail Australia Survivors got like a mass mass appeal and international appeal and we're like the you know the geeky

[00:05:23] younger cousin or younger brother that's kind of finding their own that's somewhat related and you know it just isn't quite as cool yet you know so I would say it's about that but in actual fact

[00:05:34] even just amongst you know the fellow survivor Lumna I still don't feel like the real cost away right. I just feel like this fan who got to play you know so I was even after season

[00:05:45] eight or during season eight and season nine with a couple of RHA patrons from around the world mostly Europe doing like online viewings of our episodes and I was inviting like some of our fellow

[00:05:57] castaways it was all underground you know Mnet didn't know about it to come on watch the episodes and then they could ask questions and stuff again. I just felt like this facilitator this person

[00:06:07] that was incidental to it I'd never felt like a cost away I'm like I'll get you all the real castaway story and I thought maybe that was because I was a pre-medged boot and then

[00:06:14] even as a winner we'd go out and I'll hang out with some of the fellow cast and people go like oh you're a survivor oh cool so nice to meet you and I'll be like oh cool yeah but Marien's here

[00:06:24] Phil's here Felix is here do you want to meet them the real castaways you know so I think it's I think it's got a lot to do with who I am maybe that's imposter syndrome or whatnot so yeah it's

[00:06:35] probably more down to that than than the former. Yeah and let's so let's dig into this a little this is not the first time that Dino's imposter syndrome has actually come up on Road to Reality

[00:06:45] those of you who listened to PG's episode when we talked about your escape room thing she was like yeah and we talked about imposter syndrome so here it is it's coming up already on Road to

[00:06:55] Reality it is throughout your final speech throughout the season comparing season A to season B so I was curious to see if any of this self-confidence stuff has transformed it doesn't sound like it's gone away you already said now that I'm a winner I'm still feeling a little

[00:07:17] bit of that but surely in some areas you at the end of the show you talked that it has started to lift the veil on some of this confidence stuff so has there been areas of improvements have

[00:07:29] you noticed it in places going the other direction that is a tough one to answer purely because it's not all areas of my life right and Kirsten my wife will even tell you that there are certain areas

[00:07:44] that I back myself I back myself fully to step up to the plate and perform you know in particular areas but there's there's other circles that I just feel under qualified you know or

[00:07:54] I wouldn't feel like an authority on and and survivor although I have strong opinions and you know I've experienced the game twice and I've studied the game and listened to all the podcasts I still don't feel like an authority I know there's so many people out there who

[00:08:10] have far more knowledge so I think that's maybe where the imposter syndrome comes from and as a player also know that you know while maybe I played a winning game I'm not one of the

[00:08:19] bigger characters you know I'm not like I'm not like a chap use or sent me from a South African standpoint that's not why they cast me to be a showman I think they cast me because I'm vulnerable so

[00:08:30] I know there's like greater characters out there and I think that's where that imposter syndrome comes from I had a good listen to I've had listened to a few of your podcast so if I

[00:08:39] haven't gone to all of them just yet really enjoyed them by the way so so thank you and you know PG referring to you know the imposter syndrome from the escape room side of things

[00:08:54] it was you know here I am speaking to PG and David Spira who are leading minds when it comes to this industry and I'm just the small business owner and again in South Africa where there's a

[00:09:06] very very small escape room culture yes we are the biggest and first escape room business in Africa but that bar is very very low you know so when you start being put on a stage with to do a

[00:09:22] talk and you're sharing a metaphorical or digital stage with you know some of the leading minds from around the world it's like it's highly intimidating my business partner has an MBA I don't you know

[00:09:33] I don't feel like I'm the qualified one so I think that's where the imposter syndrome kind of comes comes from in those areas so to take it back to Sibarva and you know do I back

[00:09:42] myself in other areas I think what I learned from from Sibarva was that you know come crunch time I can make the hard decisions I need to make I think the big one was you know I'd been on a journey

[00:09:54] even before Sibarva to become more self-assertive right and this was because of a number of reasons you know personal relationships also business relationships that went went south I was on a pretty long journey of asserting myself and as an empath it was really really hard

[00:10:13] as an empath who had like you know low self-esteem in many areas it was really really hard but it kind of culminated in Sibarva where you know I was like I am competitive I do want to win

[00:10:23] not at the expense of anybody else but in order to win somebody else has to lose and not just somebody else everybody else and I'm gonna have to put myself ahead of them and

[00:10:31] I managed to do it in that you know in that framework so I think yeah I think that was like the absolute test of like if it comes down to it do I have what it takes to make that hard decision

[00:10:47] and you know back myself or put myself first you know so yeah and do you think that it serves you to have this hesitance oh surely it won't be me at the top approach I mean I think you talked about it in

[00:11:11] your final jury speech a bit where you're like I'm trying to embrace this side you called it a darker side but yet do you believe that it worked for you and against you all at the same time

[00:11:25] so in the context of the game I think being an actual like empath I feel I feel for people I really feel right that allowed me to genuinely connect with people right and anything I did in the game

[00:11:40] was without mellis I'm like you can play hard you can make the hard decisions and you can do it without any malicious intent you know you're not doing it to humiliate someone you're doing

[00:11:48] it because that's a game move and that's where at you can still do it in a dignified respectable manner right I have that belief doesn't mean it's easy to accept on the other side but

[00:11:57] I think that you don't have to be malicious in this game to play a good game right so I think I built up really genuine relationships in that regard and that works because

[00:12:10] that genuine connection with people builds that trust and that trust is what gets you through vote to vote to vote you know but then you come to the end of it and I had it's an I knew I'd lost

[00:12:19] Kalani's vote for example at the end because you know we had built up this massive trust and she was a close book throughout the game in the day she finally opened up about her personal laugh

[00:12:28] and poured her heart out to me on the beach I knew that night I'd be putting her name down and that's when you know she learned about you know how I'd used her name as a dummy

[00:12:38] name in the past and you know I'd broken her trust in many other ways so although I knew in my mind the relationship was genuine all she could all she could feel was this like

[00:12:46] absolute betrayal you know so that's hard to sit with at the end because it's like you've built up this genuine relationship then people go like is everything fake you know so it's a double-edged

[00:12:57] sword right in the context of the game and in terms of like real life I don't think I don't believe that there has to be like one winner or for me to do well people other people have to

[00:13:09] do bad as a consequence you know so like that's the big difference between survivor and laugh for me it's like I believe in a collective right I think that if more people do well then as a

[00:13:19] collective everybody's doing well and by association like I don't have to be a head of the pack if if the entire pack is kind of like moving up together everybody's winning you don't have to

[00:13:26] be like ahead or like you know you know if you get from saying you don't have to create that this yes not having a scarcity mindset is thinking that you know there can be many successful

[00:13:37] escape rooms there can be many great poker players I mean I guess in a tournament you want to be the top one but there can be in the world many many people who have a lot of things and

[00:13:49] and stepping forward doesn't necessarily have to mean stepping on other people and you're however in survivor you have to like there's no way no matter what you can't just accidentally roll to

[00:14:01] the end and then still win I don't think I mean some people would argue that so how how kind of reconcile that is that you know at the end of the day we've all signed up for

[00:14:10] the exact same game we understand that if you're going for the win everybody else has to lose I know people take things personally and they will and I try my best to not in the game

[00:14:21] and I think I showed them the first season as well but that's kind of how I reconciled it is that due to the nature of the game the framework of the game the rules of the game the object of

[00:14:30] the actual objective of the game this is actually okay I'll spare and love them more sort of things so I go through this experience I've lost before and I come out this winner like my big

[00:14:43] thing at the end of that was like well what baggage does a winner carry like my big thing was going am I sociopath and that's what I worked with our psychologist on after the game I was just like

[00:14:52] I had to do these things and I chatted to Kirsten about it I was like it's great there was these highlights these great moments he's like cool things as a fan to have gone to experience

[00:15:00] and be a part of like these epic moves and blindsides that I was a part of I'm like that's so amazing but at the same time the pure depth of like that deception and like

[00:15:10] elements of you know like being a sociopath right so that was that was the hard thing so are there things that you wish you would have done differently or you're great with

[00:15:23] what you did because you won but now you're working through the reflection of am I a sociopath with the therapist so you change one thing you change everything and I wouldn't change a thing

[00:15:37] about my experience right I can't to be honest I've got my my survivor cup is so full right yeah and it was more a question and I worked through it fortunately pretty quickly and

[00:15:50] the you know it was the psychologist that they provide you you know through the show you know post post season counseling um it was only a couple of sessions and and she had said to me

[00:16:01] she's like you know the very fact that you even acknowledge that and that comes up as a question from you is the answer in itself you know like the fact that you're worried about

[00:16:09] that particular circumstance is your answer so it took me a little bit of time to kind of accept that but and when did that come up for you was it in between was it right away was

[00:16:20] it after seeing it on the show and then when when did those hesitations start to come up during the game and during the game as as those relationships got deeper and the the

[00:16:34] the line got deeper like Phil Felix and I you know we worked hard at the relationships in the game and we'd call it finessing you know like you'd spend time with people and you knew the intention

[00:16:49] at that point was to build further further trust um so that they'll go along with a particular move and we kind of discussed amongst ourselves how we would who we would target and how we'd build that

[00:16:59] trust um so it was it was very intentional and and already in that that stage I mean it felt pretty sick but at the same time you know gameplay was on and it was like I need to do this for

[00:17:11] the game it's eat or be eaten um and that was the reconciliation and you can say maybe it's an excuse to help me sleep better than that but I didn't sleep either um so it yeah I mean it really

[00:17:23] came up for me in the game where I was just like man that is deep like you're are you crossing moral boundaries whose moral boundary is right yet who's to say that this is the moral line I mean

[00:17:31] everybody's moral line is different who's is the right moral line yeah because yeah yeah I can keep just you can keep just tumbling down through were there real life repercussions with anyone from either season who came to you afterwards saying you hurt me so immediately after

[00:17:53] our um the reading of the votes the day after that they had flown the the pre-merge is back to to location so for those who haven't watched survival essay

[00:18:07] so the in season eight and season nine season eight was filmed still in the midst of covid so it had been postponed postponed postponed and then we filmed locally uh season nine because of the money

[00:18:20] that was sunk into season eight that was meant to be filmed in the philippines that then was filmed locally they decided to make the call to film locally again so both our seasons were

[00:18:28] filmed locally and season nine um because we're still on the back end of covid and there was a risk that we couldn't have a live studio audience they filmed the finale on on location so the reading

[00:18:42] of the votes happened on location as it happens now in us and has it as it has happened uh in australian survival and then the day after the difference being they what would have been day 40

[00:18:53] after everyone got cleaned up we did a full reunion and uh and the reunion shoots the day after we finished filming so after that we had a bit of like a um cast after party but i'm still like

[00:19:05] trying to come down from the game stuck in this world and tevin who was a pre-merger had had you know a month to process or just short of a month to process the game go out to the real

[00:19:15] world recollect yourself come back and then offload on me and go like dude you hurt me like you really really hurt me um so there was that immediate thing but we're quite fortunate that

[00:19:26] being a returning cast i think more players showed maturity and although these things were hard to accept it was also an understanding of gameplay and a realistic expectation of gameplay having

[00:19:35] been there once before um and yeah i mean i've got really good relationships with a lot of the cast from season eight and season nine like for me the people element is so important i really

[00:19:46] love the people it was such a cool opportunity to meet such interesting humans that you might not have crossed paths with otherwise um so i've really really worked at and kept those you know

[00:19:58] relationships that um that want to like reciprocate as well you know so i'm very lucky in that regard and that is so the process of going through am i a sociopath i've done these things i'm doing

[00:20:11] these things i did these things was internal dialogue for the most part except this one situation when did tevin say that like in the midst of your like was it in the moment it's

[00:20:22] like in the midst of the after party basically yeah so i was still like very much in the game i was feral as fuck yes yes like i've done this winning thing and it's like still chaotic and

[00:20:35] i haven't had a moment to myself to come down you know since the night before um not not a second moment to myself like thrust back into uh recording the reunion and then into this

[00:20:46] little mini-cost after party very small thing but um and just chatting and my safe space was still kind of felix and phil and following them around and you know um because they were like my safe

[00:20:56] space in the game as well following them around wanting to kind of retract and just process and you know still having conversations with people that you played the game with people that

[00:21:06] you voted out and and people who would be friends anyway um and it was just the the tevin one in particular that was quite hard and i get why it was hard from his his his perspective

[00:21:16] you know he he's a doctor and when i burnt my hands and i was like near being pulled from the game for a secondary degree burns he was in the background you know helping me clean my wounds

[00:21:25] and ensuring that like you know even when the medics weren't around that i was okay you know um so i get why he felt the way he felt and anyway he still had hard feelings for a little

[00:21:36] bit of time after that but you know i made a point of going having a beer having good chats you know letting him express himself and get it all off his chest once we'd like kind of come out

[00:21:45] of that you know i go like dude no holds barred like tell me what do you think that's okay like fair game like get it all get it all out and yeah and and just through like honest

[00:21:55] transparent conversation not taking it to personally because you know i didn't want him to take anything personally i'm like go say what you need to say you know yeah um we were

[00:22:02] able to like repair that move past that um he's he's a great guy he's a super funny smart guy and like somebody i wanted to be friends with and i was just like dude let's put it behind us and

[00:22:11] he's also mature enough to let the game be the game most things hurt they come up you have regrets but for the most part our relationships not cool so yeah it was it was it was tough in that moment

[00:22:23] yeah let's talk about i love that you said and i quote i was f***ing feral like let's i don't think we've gone in on this series into the detail of what it feels like

[00:22:40] let's say the first 24 to 48 hours even the first time you played a completely different experience the second time you played but what that feeling feral is like how does that feel

[00:22:53] how did it feel like to you so to set the scene um the season was very much like um what australian seasons tradition like so at final three that's when we got our loved ones visit so our loved ones

[00:23:08] watched the final three immunity challenge so kirsten my now wife was in fiancé she was out there to watch that there was like a dream come true i know what it was like to have my brother

[00:23:19] show up on day 32 um still eight people in the game and it's it feels like a like you're in a snow globe maybe and not only is the snow globe shaken up because that's not even it it's like the snow

[00:23:42] globe is smashed over the head and the water is let out and instead of in the snow you're on a beach it's it's not because of the weather but you're you're just all of a sudden like immediately in a

[00:23:53] different world when you see those loved people loved ones come out um i don't even maybe you have a better analogy but it is it rips you out of like inception or something uh and that's at day 32

[00:24:09] with eight people left like now here you are there's three people left you're on day 37 or something at this point that was day 38 oh day 38 okay day 38 only three people left and your fiancé at the

[00:24:27] time right she was your friend at the time of this one shows up what is your body and brain feeling like in that moment oh dude total mouth down it didn't look like it really couldn't

[00:24:42] couldn't speak couldn't like just balled my eyes out i'm a crier proudly so i'm an absolute crier rides a craft everything um i'm super sensitive like that but yeah seeing her come out was like

[00:24:53] unreal um i think like i said like brain kind of like went very confusing at the same time because this world that's um been so very different and so detached and your home life has become like

[00:25:07] almost a distant memory and i think that's that's a bit of a self-preservation possibly a bit of a self-preservation technique that you do subconsciously i don't know i don't know the psychology behind it but i assume something again um and also because we were expecting a family

[00:25:21] visit for so long that never happened and we'd kind of given up on that idea you know seeing her was like kind of ripping i don't even want to say band aid or ripping off like

[00:25:33] cheese i'm just thinking of like i'm imagining this massive massive fish tank almost like an aquarium that's got this one cork in it that's holding back thousands and thousands of litres

[00:25:46] of water and you pull that cork out and everything just shatters and comes out at once you know that's what it kind of feels like right um but i think there's you know just chatting to you now

[00:25:55] i was just thinking about something i'm like it's almost probably harder on day 32 to have that family visit than day 38 because for me my decisions were clear and already made you

[00:26:05] know like if i'd won this this is what i'm going to do you know like there's not that much game left to play there's a lot of fat that that gives you and there's an extra adrenaline rush

[00:26:14] to go and perform at that last individual immunity it gives you that little extra boost it gives me a bit more reason to make the hard decisions i need to make

[00:26:22] um and definitely boost all of that but like if i had to do that on day 32 see my loved one go still have to play a week of game knowing that i'm going to see my love like you take my loved

[00:26:35] one away from me for a long time i think you guys might have had it a lot harder than what we did this was like more humane thanks for more humane because it does it does take you back to

[00:26:48] home and it's your first bit of safe space for the longest time i'm sure you felt that as well like no matter how long it is whether you get that visit or not just just being connected with that

[00:26:57] loved one for those like few minutes even if that's all you've got. Yeah, two minutes or something because i didn't get to go on the reward so it was literally just like

[00:27:04] confessional on the mat and gone that was the you know he was there to watch the challenge and then we or he came in we talked to Jeff that's it he and i didn't get to talk one on one at all

[00:27:16] the people who were doing better in the game than me and went on the reward they got to spend time and so that is i can see what you're saying as far as it being harder possibly

[00:27:29] because of having to play so much game i mean eight people left there's still a lot going on so it's like the water goes out and then it comes back and i do remember the moment where

[00:27:45] they say okay loved ones you can go back oh i feel like a little emotional talking about it but i do remember that moment we didn't get picked on reward which of course is telling you a lot

[00:27:55] about your standing in the game and it was sebastian who i thought i was working with so that's not great the four guys go off the four girls are getting left back at camp we find that out we

[00:28:05] figure that out um well window gives it up for an advantage yeah then window gives it up for an advantage which i totally get now but at the time i did not um and then there goes my brother

[00:28:19] like bye you know and then you're then you're back into it then jeff is asking you okay kellen you're back in the game what are you gonna do it can't how do you feel about all this stuff and

[00:28:28] to like have to turn back on into survivor camera mode after just being all that water that's all the water has come out suck it up with the straw drop it back in with the cork yes the water

[00:28:43] is gone and you have to get it back in and you have to get ready to play again so i i guess the i see what you're saying as it's harder but i would i would i think in compare contrast

[00:28:55] the level of emotion of having your loved one there for that final time to end and you won and all of that stuff i mean that's just the stuff of a movie i was like winning the super bowl

[00:29:08] of survivor so that's what was different about our season as well right which was like i say very much australian style and different to how south africa had done a tradition year as well where you do that final individual community

[00:29:24] challenge you've got your loved one there and then at the after the final tribal council the reading of the votes loved ones came out so what was epic as well was the two people i

[00:29:34] really wanted to share my survivors experience with was kirsten and my brother so putting a loved one down sucked you know it was hard i wanted them both there you know i wanted

[00:29:43] i wanted my cake any you know like and um for for the reading of the votes kirsten comes out and my little brother yes i get like emotional thinking about that now and i got to share that

[00:29:52] moment on set with them they're now part of this journey and we'll get into why that's so important because of like how difficult it is for loved ones you know those survivor journeys

[00:30:01] for loved ones as well never mind us um and why it's so important for them to share in like the joy of survivor um and then you know we do the reading the votes and you know

[00:30:13] our wins i get to share that with them you know like it was just surreal it's like a super super privileged experience that still baffles me that i got to have right because

[00:30:26] the cost as a whole was super bleak that we didn't get to have this live finale you know they really knew about this now going into final tribal council that we weren't gonna have a

[00:30:34] live finale and a reading of the votes at a finale which is like a bit of closure that the the cost would get a bit of a party in a celebration of the cost which i'm very much for

[00:30:47] um but in turn i'm the one person that benefited from because i've got this very special unique moment you know that i'm so grateful for and then i cannot tell you how grateful i am for it so

[00:30:58] um that's that's kind of hard worked and yeah like i say i was just super super super fortunate to be in that position that i still gotta pinch myself i guess kirsten and my brother will tell you that

[00:31:09] i still had this like crazy look in my eye even after winning even like you know people are saying hi and congratulating me and kirsten steven told me later on steven being my brother yeah they'll

[00:31:20] tell you that even watching me from a distance like saying like you know getting the congratulations from the other cost members and stuff like that like they were just saying like very feral demented

[00:31:31] weird strange look in my eyes um and i remember still being stuck in the game even the nights after the day after at the at the reunion show still very much feeling like even i've won this game

[00:31:45] i've now had my shower i've had my food everybody's back in there but we're sitting in this reunion show at tribal council and this is like my war zone this is where you got a fucking war

[00:31:54] and still very much being in the game and reunion still felt like a tribal council to me you know and again this is the first time south africa had done it that style so when i think of that right

[00:32:07] and i consider the devastating effect it had on shane who was in a who was the runner up and how raw that was for him to put him up there the next day and have to rehash this and

[00:32:17] you know it's like all he wants is his safe space or what he knows or to be able to like reconcile what's just gone on you know in a more negative way you know i feel so much for the new

[00:32:30] era survivor cost ways that like you go into this thing you're announced as a winner or a loser it's chaos you haven't had time to process anything and now you're being hit with champagne pizza

[00:32:41] and questions like dude i feel for the new era cost ways so much on that particularly you're you're losing find this it must be so so tough even for the for the winners it's not easy like

[00:32:53] nobody feels sorry for them and i'm not expecting to feel sorry for them but no time to process it is so hardcore with your body you've lost almost 37 pounds 17 kilos which is a huge portion of

[00:33:12] your body weight yeah huge and so a lot i mean a lot of people have lost a lot of weight at this point so your body is completely different this is all happening outside of you watching especially going

[00:33:27] into the set and now everyone's cleaned up and it looks like a survivor finale is happening to your eyes but in your body like you say you are reacting to being in it to being

[00:33:39] in tribal council it's amazing that anyone can kind of go through that shock with keeping it together and like you said now the us survivors are expected to do that on a dime and just pick

[00:33:54] up the pizza boxes and first of all eat like you know people are watching you with how you're how you're eating your food and watching everybody i i cannot explain to people what

[00:34:07] it is there's nothing else like that moment of when you've been voted out or when your case won survivor in those first two three four hours where you start to return back to quote unquote real

[00:34:19] life yeah time to process so like in in the case for like a lot of the new era jury they would have had more time at ponderosa to recollect themselves right and to offload on each other

[00:34:34] the very least you know the experience and use each other's sounding board and i mean you'd speak to this better than what i'd be able to um but you've got some way to download and you've got

[00:34:45] people who can share that experience with you right and and you've had a little bit of time even though not a massive amount depending on when you got voted out at least a little bit of time

[00:34:53] to reflect and have that moment have that moment to yourself eat a meal have a shower shower thoughts you know sit in the toilet as long as you want to sit on the toilet boy if you can even

[00:35:03] go to the toilet kind of thing like um have a good sleep for the first time ever which helps clear your mind a little bit at the very least you know and just those little bits of connection with

[00:35:15] reality will give you a little bit more space to to reflect right whereas now you know for for the newer costaways that's totally stripped away and now it's like oh reflect on your game

[00:35:25] well i've just fucking lost i'm still trying to piece together the pieces yet like yeah i kind of nation i think it's in your main so many questions and want to say yes because i did i do

[00:35:35] get i can speak about this i get voted out day 35 i have four nights at ponderosa which doesn't sound like very much when we talk about the trauma a little tea trauma and uh the processing

[00:35:47] that you're going through but i did get to sit with michael and talk about every single vote what we could have done all of these things shove my face full with like literally putting

[00:35:59] pizza and chocolate cake in my mouth at the same time like just all this time to just eat like a complete heathen and do whatever you want not being on camera and i can also remember

[00:36:15] so it's interesting in our our case with ghost island because we did know who won in that moment so we knew that windel had won and dom knew he had lost and laurel had that incredibly

[00:36:27] awful heavy weight of what she had to do um and i also remember being on the jury the first like maybe the second time back and just to watch how slowly the people who are still in the game are

[00:36:39] processing their words um walking up to the vote to the voting booth moving their bodies when they bend over to pick up their bag to leave tribal like all they are in slow motion it's

[00:36:52] something that i find interesting you can't see when you're watching on television how slow people's mental and physical fact faculties are at that time um so people who are in it

[00:37:04] are that way going very slow here you are all this moment is happening and now it's all on tv for everyone to see so um inhumane is one one very good way to describe it

[00:37:20] yeah i'm sure there's other words but i just it just feels like that having again seen somebody like like shane what it did to him and he had that buffer of 24 hours if you can call it that

[00:37:31] like i really i really do feel for the the new era castaways in that regard because i know i know this podcast is bigger than survival it's about the life outside of

[00:37:40] survival but that has the impact and and this is like the trauma that you carry outside of the game right um and it's it's one more thing to have to heal from yeah and having to have done it well

[00:37:51] everyone watching and a million people online and then everybody have an opinion about it and and oh no if you had just done this i mean obviously i mean obviously she's i mean

[00:38:06] oh thank you for that i wish i would have known so i wish i would have if only i would have voted window out you know i could have won um yes so let's kind of wind it back as you said this

[00:38:19] podcast isn't just about survivor and um not maybe not everyone here on road to reality has had a chance to watch survivor south africa um so just give us a elevator pinch of who you are where

[00:38:37] you grew up where you are in the world who is who is dino outside of survivor so yeah south africa a little country at the tip of africa um born in johannesburg so i know christie spoke about living in johannesburg and visiting

[00:38:56] cape town so born and grew up in in in johannesburg well we called the province everything associated with by the city of johannesburg um and i spent my entire life then until six months ago

[00:39:12] that's where i lived and i relocated recently with with my wife down to cape town which is roughly i think about 900 miles it's like 1500 something kilometers across the country to set up lafayette beautiful beautiful city cape town it's absolutely stunning and this is where my business

[00:39:31] is based so um yeah i mean i guess 32 years old i'm not good at this elevator pitch thing yeah how old are you so 1990 born in 1990 um makes me feel old because i'm an 86 so 90 sounds

[00:39:48] like a child my sister's born in 85 i mean we were a sibling age um so yeah middle child while we're on the sibling thing but my sister so your brother is younger or older much younger so he's

[00:40:04] seven years younger than me my sister's five years older than me so smack them middle child i'm like the middle child with a big difference in ages though do you have like classic middle child's

[00:40:16] tendencies i'm the peacekeeper i'm the glue in the family i'm the only one with like a mild temperament everybody else is a bit more uh quick tempered i'm super like chilled and

[00:40:28] calm um which is like really strange but very good relationship with both my siblings love them to bits what were you like growing up were you because you're you're an adventurous person here

[00:40:42] in the in the adult world skydiving poker player survivor winner going out and getting it all so is this how you've always been um yes and no so i think when i was younger a lot of self-confidence

[00:41:00] issues um low self-esteem uh struggled with a bit of bullying classic uh i did i was very fortunate to go to an amazing school it's a private school um with lots of opportunities so i played a lot

[00:41:13] of sport loved my sport um i was it was weird i didn't fit into any groups like you know i was i was doing all the drama and the public speaking and debating and all the cultural things so like

[00:41:26] the sporty guys looked at me like a bit of a nerd and then you know the classic more academic strong guys um or people who did do like the more cultural aspects because of my sporting

[00:41:39] background looked at me as more of a jock you know so i didn't really fit in in a particular mold which i think was also like a bit strange but it was cool like i was just trying to make

[00:41:48] friends wherever i could um and it was nice to be involved in a lot of different things get a lot of different perspectives and experiences so i was very much from a young age all about

[00:41:56] like trying my hand at everything i just wanted to do everything you know it's impossible but i tried i tried everything and i wasn't i wasn't very good at many things i was good

[00:42:04] a couple of things but i wasn't very good at many things and that didn't actually faze me as much and put me off from trying weirdly enough so even though i had this like low self-esteem i think

[00:42:15] there was a lot of things that i just enjoyed and had fun doing and that was enough to like make me try you know and there was a stage where you know putting myself in particular

[00:42:26] situations became a conscious effort to build a bit of confidence you know so at a later stage when i did start doing like the drama and public speaking stuff that was like a bit

[00:42:35] more intentional to like try build up a bit of self-confidence you know um so yeah i guess there's a bit of a mix even even today people like i still consider myself a more sporty person you

[00:42:46] know with my my background but because of like my enjoy my like enjoyment of games and puzzles and i suppose some nerdy geeky things you know i'm still considered a bit nerdy and geeky

[00:42:58] in some ways so i still really know where i fit but it's kind of cool i'm happy go like you don't want to box myself in anyway yeah well um i don't want to let it slide so people

[00:43:11] who don't know you understand when i say oh you'd like you you skydive this isn't like oh you went skydiving for your 30th birthday um although you probably did but um what is your relationship with skydiving and how many times have you jumped out of a plane

[00:43:30] so i've been skydiving since mid-2011 actually yeah it's 12 years a week ago that i i've been skydiving uh so i've got about 650 skydives um i'm competitive so i've got a skydiving team so i compete in formation skydiving the ambition and the goal is to represent

[00:43:55] South Africa at the world meet next year in Israel that's what we're trying to work towards the spend has been thrown in the works there unfortunately but um you know one of one of

[00:44:05] the many dreams i had as a kid was to one day represent my country at something um you know survivor represent my country a couple of other crazy things like go to space i mean i would

[00:44:17] love to do that at some time in my life but still on the bucket list why not you know um oh i can give you many many reasons but that's not very interesting on this podcast

[00:44:30] what's the adrenaline rush comparison between stepping on the map for your first season of survivor versus going up in the airplane that first time for can you compare them at all

[00:44:43] that's so funny you asked that because i even had a trip with nico the one night because i was like you know skydiving like it's like oh yeah you know skydiving you know it's like a matter of

[00:44:53] life or death survivors way more serious you could get voted out and lose you know like how is the running joke come like i've got way more to do but then like i'm not gonna know about it

[00:45:01] you know but voted out i gotta live with that so it's very different adrenaline um very different fears they're still in immense adrenaline rush and there's this element of although

[00:45:15] i'm not in control i know what the outcome is going to be so father step on the mat this wall of cameras like in front of you your host so in our case nico sitting in front and going like i'm actually

[00:45:27] here and like trying to rationalize like is this real like is this reality like okay what's actually happening and then you get hit with a question and then give an answer back and then you're going

[00:45:37] oh that's fucking dumb that's the first thing i've seen on tv it's so stupid like what did i think of something better i'm like you had months to think of something quick you just

[00:45:44] saying you cocked up your name you know like and it's like am i going to survive am i going home tonight am i going to get medivac am i going to make it like there's so many unanswered questions

[00:45:54] there's so many more question marks around hitting the mat just makes it like wildy more exciting so so i can just say i've experienced enough a drill and stepping onto the mat that day that's my

[00:46:04] never never kind of thing you don't need more adventure in your life dude like you've you've hit the pinnacle yeah that was that was it that was it just chasing i'm i don't need to chase

[00:46:14] that high we're we're good it's loaded um you were talking about skydiving and other things about your inner child coming to life you would have been a let's do the math here 16 when the

[00:46:27] first survivor south africa came out but were you a us survivor fan earlier and so this is a childhood this is a childhood thing yeah so it aired a couple months after it aired in the us

[00:46:39] it aired in south africa uh season one and that's when i was like i like this thing and as a kid i was like oh all the challenges and that's kind of what like got me hooked and then as i got a bit

[00:46:50] older it was like the social strategy side i'm like i love the strategy i like strategy games you know so um yeah that's that's what kind of kept me hooked was that there was the social

[00:47:02] strategic side so as i grew up that i kind of appreciated a bit more so yeah with no chance of being able to play because at the time and still south africans can't play us survivor but no

[00:47:13] one other than us citizens can play back in the day and then what is that like when it comes on tv or you find out that there is a season coming to south africa that you are a little young

[00:47:24] for but ultimately could be on was that so exciting when that door opened up it's super it was super cool that this thing that we that i loved was like actually coming to sa and was it

[00:47:36] was great um again like i was i was too young to even apply sadly like our first two seasons in particular weren't the best quality um all the production slightly different hosts um you

[00:47:49] know much much lower budgets um so it didn't look as um as good as what's us or what i was still i was still like man i'd i'd love to do that there was also a period of time so as much as i was a

[00:48:04] fan of survivor from back then um you know i got so caught up in all the other things like what i was doing in terms of sports and culture that i didn't watch all that much tv so i didn't

[00:48:13] watch survivor for a long time um and i kind of came back to it in my early 20s so around when i was about 21 cool and then how is the casting process in south africa is it different than you

[00:48:27] at were you sitting in a video how did that go so seasons one to five of survivor's africa were produced by or produced by a company called endemol endemol shine and they now no longer exist

[00:48:43] so back then it was very different and i auditioned for season five i know this comes up in your rapid fire questions but um it's it's worth mentioning now because it was very different how it is now

[00:48:53] so in season five i actually auditioned twice in that season in person uh you can only do a person call open casting um so johannesburg so that's where i lived i was like cool go to

[00:49:07] the open casting uh the person who did my interview was lirub but i didn't know this at the time and he was just a content producer at the time nobody knew that he was eventually going to revive

[00:49:17] the whole franchise epically and become you know the executive producer and creative director um and he kind of like saw something in me and just that moment of belief was enough to for me to go

[00:49:28] like okay cool that idea you've got in your head that you can actually do this game and that you might work out for this game there's something there you're not just totally crazy going around

[00:49:36] too it was like the group or this weird group audition stage that i didn't like and i got cut straight away and i was like oh damn you know group audition i gotta know about it what is described

[00:49:47] the scene so so silly and i believe um from some people that i know that went through the current uk casting process that they're doing it a little bit this way where you go in a group they

[00:50:00] simulate almost like a survive electricity's back um you get put in this group scenario and i remember this quite well so we kind of walk in and there's about 16 people and a panel of uh casting uh casting producers whatever and they start by okay cool you've

[00:50:23] got to vote somebody out okay cool put somebody's name down like who are you wearing name tags have you talked to each other we kind of we've really chatted outside gotten to know some people

[00:50:34] oh done an introduction as well sorry done an introduction on ourselves a bit of a background and then they're like okay cool now you got to vote somebody out based on first impressions

[00:50:42] what the fuck this is dumb dude whoever got voted out that's it that's their casting done you know i was like this is so dumb yeah and then we did like you know almost like this cheesy

[00:50:51] team building then we got splits into two tribes um through schoolyard pick um and then i can't even remember how the people got nominated as whoever was picking and then you kind of did like

[00:51:05] cheesy team building kind of exercises right and they were just assessing your dynamic um and then you know that's this whole thing lasted about 20 minutes and then you went out the room and 10

[00:51:16] minutes later they came back and read the names who made it to the next round and the rest of you just went home i was like wow it was so dumb dude i didn't like it at all um

[00:51:26] and then i was like oh no okay i didn't put my best foot forward so i flew to Durban like a week later to go and audition again and then i got rejected in round one instead

[00:51:38] it's only funny now because now you've gotten back in one but um season six seven eight and nine or season six seven eight uh traditional casting actually works very similarly to to us so

[00:51:52] um first round is a video submission and questionnaire second round changed slightly one year it was just a questionnaire uh then they later changed it so you could do a questionnaire and submit a video

[00:52:03] a second video as well um then you go to telephone interview season six and seven are bombed out in round two i never got fired dude i was like i was always getting rejected early

[00:52:18] um so after that then you do a telephone interview from the telephone interview you get like a home visit so a casting producer comes to your house sits yeah comes to your house

[00:52:29] sits up like like you first you know they're coming yeah you know they schedule it okay they book a slot they schedule it uh they sit down set up a camera and do basically a one hour

[00:52:40] interview confessional style with you um and then if you make it through that you do medical psych evaluation and final uh final interview with the panel what was that like to have a casting

[00:52:53] person like come to you like what are you do are you like rearranging your i feel like i'd be like repainting the walls of my house rear furniture like do i have survivor stuff hanging do i not

[00:53:02] have something like that sounds like a biggest cluster of anxiety ever i'm getting anxiety thinking about it now so i'm going to take it back a step to give you a bit of context to

[00:53:16] how i actually got on so i suck at casting or being cast right that that became very evident right and then i get cast in season eight and i later learned it was actually because of season

[00:53:27] seven so what happened was season seven rolls around it was a hugely successful season for for the franchise again i was out in round two and i'm like in the depths of obsession

[00:53:39] you know this is like the this is when i'm super obsessed with survivor i don't know if you went through that phase where you are like obsessed it consumes a lot of your mind space every day right

[00:53:49] yes after you get your for at least for me that kicked in after i got my first answer back from my first time applying like i apply i sent in my video and i just all i got was an email to

[00:54:01] fill out a form and for about six months it was just all survivor all the time just from that so it doesn't take much it didn't take much for me to look into that at least i don't

[00:54:14] know if i said this i feel you there very much the same right and finales are generally close to public invite only um and i really wanted to go to this finale and no lo and behold i

[00:54:27] couldn't get tickets i tried all these different avenues you know contacting production contacting network contacting cars contact i was like shoot my shot i'm gonna shoot many many shots of one head's fucking ace dude none of them landed um and i remember sitting at the airport because

[00:54:45] i was traveling between capes and a joeberg the lights are sitting at the airport just you know ran me on my phone and i see a competition to win tickets to a finale

[00:54:54] on facebook i'm like ah fuck i'm gonna have a go at this and i pretty my eyes up and i try and make it all fancy with emojis and you know survivor references in my eyes and just

[00:55:04] try to make it stand out a little bit and i completely forget about this um a little closer to uh about a week before finale actually is so i've now forgotten about

[00:55:13] this process i see one of the cast members actually put out a message saying hey you know i've got a ticket my friend is in joeberg finale's in cape town um they're riddled with like illnesses like muffin syndrome and they're they're they struggle with illnesses they struggle with

[00:55:29] finances this is an opportunity that they could go down and be with their friend but financially they can't do it and i was like fuck this dude like if there's somebody that can

[00:55:37] that has tickets to go to this awesome thing there's no ways they're gonna miss out on that so i shouted to my business partner said listen can we sponsor the flights can we give

[00:55:45] them some spending money get them down there you know let's do this and it was like sweet no stress let's do it so i contacted the the cast away said look we're gonna sponsor your mates all

[00:55:54] this chat into the mate literally five minutes after that happened instant karma i get a call from steers which was one of the major sponsors who ran the competition they're like hey you know

[00:56:02] you just want tickets to go to the finale you know i was like that's fucking instant karma dude instant instant so i was like no freaking way so we got flown down by the sponsor

[00:56:14] put up in the hotel like treated like royalty we got to go to this finale and it's so cool and i'm sitting in the audience going like please announce season eight please announce season eight and they

[00:56:24] don't announce season eight and my heart like breaks um so funny enough i sit next to the guy who actually wins the car because there was a viewer viewer competition as well where viewers would

[00:56:35] vote for fan favorites and one of the viewers would win a car and i say that because the car he won i later win in my season right so i was like the lightning bolt of the car wins must

[00:56:47] have struck between those seats so now i'm like i'm like i'm like geez i want tickets to this thing i want some stairs you want a fucking car i'm like dude i'm actually not going to complain like

[00:56:57] yeah it'd be cool to win a car one day too you know like lo and behold um so then i'm like cool i'm a part of the after party the after party was even more exclusive and thanks to sponsors

[00:57:09] you know like we got in there was it this very cool hotel called radison raid here and i just like lili i'm not cool part of the furniture making friends with everyone having a really

[00:57:20] good time there's no pressure because there's no season eight right uh get chatting with everyone get introduced to the producers and i'm like oh i have like a fat chat with them like they're

[00:57:29] like old mates um and then the sponsor that flew me down introduces me to to laru again who did my season five kind of thing and i kind of recognize i was like okay cool and he's like hey laru

[00:57:41] you know dino's applying to get on the show and i'm like laru that's not what this conversation is about don't have ulterior motives i'm just chatting game he's like no no dino just know that i know

[00:57:51] you know and i have these moments and i'm like and i'm obsessed about that that line for months afterwards and i was saying to my wife or to kirsten who's my girlfriend at the time i'm like

[00:58:01] do you think that means what i think it means whatever you know do i think it means anyway through having so much fun with them you know one o'clock in the morning rolls around

[00:58:10] the after party shuts down at the venue but they're having an after party back at the production offices which was even more exclusive just for kirsten some crew i had no idea i just

[00:58:19] rocked up with the cast and to their production offices started serving myself from the bar you know like as a part of the furniture um the person who was behind the bar was a production

[00:58:28] manager linda and you know like she started giving me a bit of like a bit of banter and i gave the banter back and we got in really well um turns out she became like a big advocate of for me to get on to

[00:58:40] season through that interaction i didn't know all of this at the time you know i'm just having a really good time you know you're just like oh my god like this is my forever fan dream is coming

[00:58:47] through i'm like i'm meeting all the castaways all the people i've just watched that season all the people i watched previous seasons i'm meeting like crew i'm meeting producers i'm having drinks with them you know like dude yeah so like living the dream five o'clock in the morning

[00:59:02] like absolutely hammered roll back into my hotel room having had the best time ever thinking none of it because i'm just like that was a good time right anyway it turns out that

[00:59:15] that's that's you know really what got me on to the show and it becomes more relevant sorry it's a long-winded way of oh my gosh i love i love no don't be sorry i love to hear about

[00:59:24] it's so it's so fun because it's so i don't think i mean it's just so rare for people to get on us survivor by like actually interacting with cast and crew i just don't it doesn't happen that often

[00:59:37] in the us survivor so it's so fun to hear about it that way yeah like again it's not lost in me how many stars had to align for this to happen for me right because like i said i suck at

[00:59:47] casting and it comes up again i really don't get cast still um so yeah i've had this epic experience anyway so eventually they announce season eight and i get far enough along and one of the casting

[00:59:59] producers and he's also well he's a content producer as well um he's going to come to my house so like i said this linda lady that i'd met who is a production manager we were in contact

[01:00:09] she sent me some good news you know when i got through the rounds and she kind of like had said like in your corner yo and i had a good relationship with her and i was like sweet you

[01:00:17] know there's a bit of an in there um and i knew a couple of people from from the production team was like in what corner they wanted to see me on the show and i was like that's cool to have you

[01:00:28] know i'm gonna i'm gonna use that right yeah you think that's great you know that and then you're like but did i read into the conversations wrong well maybe they've forgotten that they

[01:00:36] met me i imagine there's like you know they're in your corner but then the other side of your shoulder is telling you is it real so just this mind game of i was there what did they say

[01:00:47] getting pulled in getting it's just it was would have been a ride i think no hell of a ride so now this was a long way to answer your question about like would you do this guy this this

[01:00:59] producer's gonna rock up to your house right so i have this thing i've got this time booked you know the only book an hour and like 20 minutes before he's set to arrive i messaged linda

[01:01:11] i'm like dude what do you do with the casting producer what do you feed them do you water them do you pet them like what the fuck you know like i'm like i was thinking of like biltong which is like

[01:01:22] our equivalent of beef jerky but way better than beef jerky biltong is a south african fucking biltong is a thing for us and i'm like i'm like biltong and like winegum so like soft

[01:01:33] sweets and candy you'd call it candy you know and i'm like what if they're vegan and that's i start having this down download like meltdown with with linda okay also what if they're being there so so linda laughs she's like okay cool no watermelon seedless grapes and coffee

[01:01:51] that's all dav needs you know my sweets are hopping to my car i send her a series of like photos of me shopping getting all the stuff like murdering home like just making a bit comical

[01:02:03] they had a laugh um dav rocks up at my door i'm like hey dav welcome can offer you in some seedless red grapes some watermelon some coffee gives me this puzzled look on his face or whatever

[01:02:16] he's like how do you know i'm like oh i know you know like ironically so at this stage i despise coffee i don't drink coffee at all i bought the wrong capsules for

[01:02:26] the coffee machine i don't even know how to work my coffee machine my wife uses it you know so i'm like sorry dav i fucked up here come off your coffee what is gonna have to do you know like classic

[01:02:36] so i couldn't even get that right anyway so i mean these are thoughts that i mean did go through my head i did freak out i'm like this is so strange but he's phenomenal he said this

[01:02:47] this this camera up he's obviously got all the notes and all the questions on you and the history and everything you've ever spurted out in any into in any questionnaire in any video interview

[01:02:57] they know everything they've looked into you right and um he just has this like casual discussion and within like five minutes like all the walls are down and then i'm like bawling my eyes out

[01:03:08] to some circumstances like live situations and again not hard to do because i'm soft and sensitive and next thing like we're having this fat laugh and he gets to see this whole range of

[01:03:18] emotions and i'm like actually not this is a good thing this hour slot that i was booked for ended up being two hours you know and i'm like that can only be a good thing you know um and and he leaves

[01:03:27] at the end of it and he says do you know if any winks at me the call comes for a final interview just be what you've been here you know it's enough you know sweet dude does it mean what

[01:03:44] i think it means i'm pretty sure and then weeks go by with no call right and you know that feeling where you're like uh am i delusional is this where the dream dies it's been too long i'm definitely

[01:03:54] out no but he said that i've got hope no i don't ever yeah but yeah and then you're calling i don't know who your call was if it was kirsten or your brother or whatever for me i would be calling

[01:04:03] my brother my parents would be like but wait they said this like they wouldn't have asked me that if whatever she wouldn't have asked me if would i cut my hair if they weren't gonna bring me oh

[01:04:12] just constant i mean absolute constant obsession you start to lose touch with reality once you're in maybe the second half of casting even 100 where you're not focusing well on work i mean

[01:04:29] if i were a business owner i don't think i would want any of my employees going through the survivor experience because i think you lose two years of productivity out of people because

[01:04:40] of the casting journey and going on the show and all that so um yeah i hear you on on the ups and downs to the business to the business owner friend at this stage this is when we've got dodgy business

[01:04:53] partner that was stealing so much from our business and put our business in jeopardy and i was busy doing this whole underground like underground like i was doing this whole private investigation into him and i was like i got an access to all the accounts historical from even

[01:05:10] before i was involved with the business and i was allocating transaction line by line to see exactly where the money had gone i spoke i spoke a bit about it on um on pg's podcast and it comes

[01:05:21] up a bit in um the talk that we're giving at their their convention but you know at this time like through this casting process at this point there's so many changes happening my business

[01:05:34] is on the brink of like closure because of this position this guy's put us in i've been selling off my assets to keep the business afloat so like i've been selling off properties that i bought

[01:05:45] that sold my car you know running staff salaries through credit cards because while he was okay with not paying people i couldn't live with that on my corner i'm like it's my business my responsibility meanwhile he's busy building this beautiful house in lasna you know pleading

[01:05:59] saying oh we're in this boat together it's a tough time it's underperforming in joeberg making me like total gas lighting um so so this is the face and at the same time i'm like while all this

[01:06:10] is happening this is how i touch with reality like i was where i was like this is such great survivor content this is what they're gonna cost me this is a great story you know like

[01:06:18] this is like the ultimate blind side what i'm setting up here you know that's like how twisted is that and like percursed and like a portion of our life is like busy falling apart and like

[01:06:29] future for her is crumbling you know and what i'm busy thinking about is like this is great i know exactly how i'm going to answer the next blind side question 100% dude that's how out of

[01:06:40] touch with reality you become right and it's not healthy is not healthy and thank god for our loved ones who are willing to put up with all of that when we're when we're going crazy

[01:06:53] so you've had your interview with dave you are now doing a private investigation into your own business into some research here and what is happened what happens next in casting so then then get the call final interview this panel interview which is set up in a board room

[01:07:15] not many as many execs as what you might have had because our networks but smaller but 12 people in a board room setting you know and i know i've got this edge i don't have to work too

[01:07:28] hard i believe they're in my corner african has really sold them the dream on me so i go in you know with with an advantage of other at the other potential castaways and i've

[01:07:40] backing bomb this interview like no tomorrow and i can feel it you just know when when you just don't click you know i had the walls up to here like i couldn't make eye contact with some of

[01:07:52] the emnets executives there was just no for me it's like it's a two-way street you know and i just thought you were giving in they just weren't taking is that what was happening

[01:08:02] yeah it was like it was look mostly my own doing because i got stuck in my own head and becomes a running theme for me but i just couldn't break that barrier down in the first

[01:08:14] 30 seconds to a minute and it was probably my own mental barrier so i suck at casting or being caused just um yeah i think you're not the only one i think some people listening would really

[01:08:26] relate to that and feel like they could go out um and be on the show and give good confessionals and play the game well um is there any advice you would give to people who

[01:08:38] think they just struggle in casting or you haven't cracked that nut so no advice no i have and it's a do as i say not as i do kind of scenario but it's it's it's the the freaking

[01:08:51] cliche that you'll hear from i mean because i'd watched all the how to get cast in reality tv i watched all the um uh uh lin spulman was it uh videos she was being interviewed and

[01:09:06] adam clans like casting tips and all that stuff and even you know local uh suave's africa contestants they're casting tips be you be yourself like like it's literally like you cannot be anything other than you they'll see right through it um and and i suppose

[01:09:23] it's like be a bit vulnerable like so don't and it's so hard to do you know if you say don't think of the pink elephant you're gonna think of the pink elephant kind of thing but

[01:09:32] don't don't let those wars build up be vulnerable um and just know that you are enough like they're gonna cast you so you need to show who you are and i don't necessarily know how to do that as much

[01:09:44] perhaps so i didn't um but yeah i don't know if you agree with that or not i'm like be yourself if you were to drink two glasses of wine and then go talk to yourself in the mirror

[01:09:59] or like if you don't drink like have a cup have a can of mountain dew a liter of mountain dew or four espressos and then go be alone and talk out in front like so get with get to the point

[01:10:12] where you are energized um and not just like with the caffeine boost but like i'm like taking a big breath and spreading my shoulders here like take up more space with your true self in a

[01:10:30] bigger way um and you just cannot be afraid look they have the rights to those inner those audition tapes that i sent in and if they ever release them i would be absolutely horrified

[01:10:45] but i don't think that anything i ever said in those casting videos or um in casting when i was in la getting interviewed has made it out to anywhere and i think you have to be willing to push yourself

[01:11:00] beyond what you'll have to do in the show and remembering that you have to be willing to be more vulnerable say the thing that you don't want to say um i was recently i don't often help

[01:11:12] people doing casting i'm trying to not get this reputation um but my my thing was like i am going to dig into you are lying to yourself you have to find where are you lying to yourself

[01:11:28] for example if jeff probes asks you well how do you think that you um how do you think that you line up with other people in this room um intelligence wise and when that voice inside

[01:11:43] of your head is like i'm fucking smarter than everyone here i already know it like that is what you have to say even though you've never said yeah i look around and i know i'm the smartest

[01:11:51] smartest person in the room um maybe you're the dumbest person in the room maybe you feel that way maybe you're the boldest maybe you're the most shy but don't let yourself be mediocre

[01:12:02] or don't let yourself be edited or wear the filter because you have to pull the filter off you have to pull the same to the truest part of your self now you don't have to be mean i was

[01:12:16] like i really truly think i might fall in love with every guy that's in this room and that's going to be my problem like i think they're all cute like like so you have to just be

[01:12:25] willing to tell the truth of what you would write in your diary so have some drinks do whatever you got to do tell the truth and be yourself but i understand that

[01:12:36] even as i put words to it i don't know if it's making sense you know i don't know maybe i feel like crazy i know i know exactly what you mean that here's one of those hard

[01:12:45] things to like translate it's almost or convey but i know exactly what you mean and it's exactly that um not not the filtered version of yourself the not the radio edit version the you know

[01:12:57] the not safe for work one that's the one they want to see you kind of thing you know and like look if you're having trouble getting on the show and part of it is because you don't know how you

[01:13:07] you don't know how to present differently like go to therapy honestly like going to therapy working with a coach not like a i mean definitely work with a casting coach if that's what you

[01:13:18] want to work with but like learn who you are the more you know who you are as a person the better you can tell other people who you are and if you're saying i i like orange and they can

[01:13:33] tell you actually don't like orange you like yellow better like they can tell that you are lying to yourself more than you can tell that you're lying to yourself so if you can't figure what that is

[01:13:43] get to therapy do work do reflection do journaling figure out who you are a little bit better and then you'll be able to tell them who you are a little bit better and i think

[01:13:53] is to that thing where you're saying like they know you don't like orange even if you like it's like don't they're not the casting is not the opposition you don't have to out game them out

[01:14:03] play them and believe me it's unlikely that you will they've been doing this for a very long time they've seen people who are probably smarter than you who are probably more charismatic chances are

[01:14:14] and those people haven't gone to right they they see right through those things so they're not the opposition just show them who you are that's it yeah yeah that's so true like you can't

[01:14:27] there's nothing to win there like in that room you can't beat them no like you can't you can't outsmart casting um there's there's no outs outsmarting involved like so

[01:14:45] so the other thing you touched on like if you you know if you're listening to this and you have been struggling to get cast and you believe that you know there's something there and and you will be

[01:14:55] a fit for a season in the future i'm like i'm very much on the keep trying you know like i'm a good example of it but somebody who I referenced in my audition video in season eight who I

[01:15:04] took inspiration from was Chrissy Huffback you know and i know she spoke about it again in the podcast auditioning for 16 years waiting 16 years for opportunities to play and i was like i said straight up in my season eight edition video like i will Chrissy Huffback this

[01:15:17] thing that you will see my name come up in every single fucking audition until i get to play the game you know that's kind of like the persistence and you don't want to obsess and hop on particular

[01:15:27] things you want them to see you for you but i just thought i'd bring that up because i know she was a guest and it's she's somebody who I drew inspiration from where i was like you

[01:15:35] know what maybe i'm not that crazy you know i haven't gone past round two ever you know people are saying like it's not going to happen you know it's not going to happen just just give up why

[01:15:43] do you even try one i try because it's a hell of a fun process it's exciting right two because what if what if i do get chosen what if what if i do make it you know like i've got a lot more to

[01:15:54] lose by not auditioning than i do you know by not auditioning so yeah you just might you know what i mean you know what i mean best that i've heard you know what i mean

[01:16:03] it's yeah it was made yeah keep trying mix it up a little bit and just keep trying it's worthwhile i promise actually i do want to mention something because you have you've

[01:16:13] spoken about you know just the differences right and one of the big differences um is that even throughout the cost the costing process we will never see another potential cost away ever until

[01:16:28] the first the first look you ever get at your filler cost is in the game moments before you do the opening shots when your blindfolds come off that is the first ever look you get and i

[01:16:39] quite like that about survival of africa right yes i know i know i wish that it was that way and in survival yeah yes for us you guys going to you know you'll see a whole lot of these other

[01:16:51] people in like la week or whatever it is that you i know you and dum spoke about it quite a bit in the week building up to to the game when you're in the game doing all your promos you guys do

[01:17:03] i think there's some talks that you do as a group they talk to you about like the safety and the game i don't know what else yeah they give us like kind of kind of the like housekeeping rules

[01:17:13] and that sort of thing yeah show us how to make fire like that it's a little late if you're learning in that class 100 percent so so we get the same kind of education in the form of a

[01:17:24] little booklet you get to read in your in your hotel room alone you know so i personally i prefer that because that first impression that first experience is authentic i know like a new survivor

[01:17:36] like i never got it until i understood the background and people are like oh i just got such a good vibe from you that's that vibe is about i've seen you in casting i've seen you appreciate

[01:17:45] i've seen you here i've made i've got preconceived ideas about you that's the vibe i'm referring to or you know i think i really do appreciate that that survivors that really tries to keep that

[01:17:56] that first impression the impression in the game where everybody's seen each other for the first time not trying to make eye contact across the canteen at lunch or trying to get worked in my

[01:18:06] favor to be honest um so i think there are people who would get who it would be a disadvantage for and other people it would be an advantage for um so i agree with you that it's would be best if

[01:18:19] you didn't you hadn't seen anyone i mean then all you have is maybe the outfit they've put you in yeah i think people thought my first impression was like everyone thought i was like a pastor's wife

[01:18:33] or a teacher or a missionary or i don't know i had this i guess like very quiet um conservative conservative aura apparently i i don't know so then when we were like laying down

[01:18:50] in the shelter the first few nights and we're all talking and then just i'm just like blowing off about what you know parties i've gone to and getting divorced and all this stuff and everyone's

[01:19:01] like what's like who are you so i think i think it was an advantage to me because people didn't had all of that time in casting and then the week before ponderosa thinking that

[01:19:14] i was like this innocent kindergarten teacher um so i think it served me really well epic epic and look i mean it is what it is right so if if that's the casting way for the us

[01:19:27] and you can make that work to your advantage if i can take any edge you can get right so like you know like whether we prefer it to be a particular way to be more authentic

[01:19:37] first impressions it's not that way so make it work for you like work it did like fuck it's become a part of the game and if you're not doing it somebody else is going to be doing

[01:19:45] it anyway so why not i think be the most like unassuming not least threatening so we're yeah the least threatening like most just wear beige everything don't uh don't stand out in any

[01:20:00] way just be so unassuming so we're telling you be yourself in casting in a free us free game be anything but yourself i hope you all are taking notes here on the complex game such a complex game i

[01:20:16] do want to mention though so it was it was so great listening to you and dom chat right um for number of reasons there's so many views i appreciate and i have huge admiration for dom and his survivor brain and how he can

[01:20:33] you know make really complex ideas he can actually bring them to a more concise bite size segment right it's something that i can't do right and listening to the two of you chat i

[01:20:44] felt like the third friend in the conversation in a way i was just like sitting agreeing you like as i was driving um but i really appreciated that you you you really spoke about how challenging

[01:20:54] the like both the pregame journey is which is costing which is a bit exciting and we've touched on it being really consuming but post game how difficult those months are and i think the point

[01:21:05] i'd like to make and i kind of touched on it at some point is that like for partners especially it's just it is such a challenging game like they go through the most they don't have anybody who

[01:21:15] they can relate to we've got other cost ways we've got like a psychologist that i pick and call these previous cost ways that you can chat and download on like um after my season eight

[01:21:27] when i felt like a failure i reached out to kill and i was like because because you know you knew that i was going um i came back and i was like i'm a pre-merge boot and i don't know what to do

[01:21:37] with that and you were a bit of a sounding board i tried not to download and you but like i would try and get it out there and make sense of it in any way shape or form and and you gave me

[01:21:46] some good advice from your experience and and randy's experience and whatnot you know so i had like people that could relate in some way or other you know our partners don't they've got

[01:21:57] they've got the shell of a human being lights on nobody's home um so it is a tough tough game not even for the game itself for for the impact it has before and especially after to i don't

[01:22:10] think there's words to mince like to lose your partner as you know them yeah for literally forever i don't because you you don't um i mean you part of you returns right it's like you do come back

[01:22:26] down to earth eventually from being on survivor planet but not fully it's it's forever changed your life and changed who you are to the core i don't think there's any any human who's played

[01:22:41] survivor that it hasn't somewhat changed and they've been alone that whole time and not connecting to other loved ones um it i wasn't in a romantic relationship so i can't imagine but everything on my season happened went from some people broke up right away they got back together

[01:23:03] some people broke up and never got back together some people got engaged right away and then the engagement fell through um because of post survivor stuff what was the if you feel comfortable

[01:23:13] talking about it what was the impact on your relationship with your wife kind of going through round one and round two so round one was incredibly tough for her because i was so far gone for so

[01:23:29] long right um that was really tough luckily she's amazing and understanding and so supportive and how long were you gone for the show because did they don't do do they do ponderosa or did they

[01:23:42] oh that's that's something very different as well so in in sub-arist africa if you are a pre-merge boot there's no pre-jury trip uh traditionally you'd go home within 48 hours after being voted out um season eight that changed that they would then let you decompress in a

[01:23:57] ponderosa environment um and depending on you know your mental state they would then send you home so anywhere between three and six days but then you go home back to reality everybody else is in game

[01:24:09] so that happened for me so i was uh 14 days in because it was the first game was quaren covid so we spent 14 days pre-game in the hotel room um with no contact to the outside world

[01:24:23] so really that 14 days was super tough um you've got no tv so you've got your phone for that and everything phone any sort of contact you've just got a tv that can receive a hard drive with whatever

[01:24:35] you've got saved on there the books that you've got um any any books that you might have or puzzles or whatever you know and and after like day three or four you get tired of that you get lonely

[01:24:48] and bored and it's it's terrible right um so you're gone for that period already then it's the game so i i lasted 16 days and then they contacted kirsten you know uh after about 19 days of gameplay to say

[01:25:03] he'll be at the airport you can pick him up tomorrow you know and then my concern was like oh she's notified i don't have my phone she's going to be devastated for me i just want to

[01:25:11] let her know that i'm actually okay even though it really kind of wasn't and you know that kind of comes up um that was really tough for so the post game of there the kudas should have would have

[01:25:19] you know doesn't matter where you finish in the game those happen i learned that eventually you know i had this opinion of like oh but at least you made merge or you got so close doesn't

[01:25:28] matter how far you go in the game if you didn't want you've got those kudas should have orders and they were hard that is so true um you know so um and that was months and then it

[01:25:39] airs and then it's like the online comments you know i was particularly paranoid in the game which i was there were a couple of things decisions i made in game that had a reason i made those

[01:25:52] decisions but they looked like completely boneheaded moves and in isolation there were there was this element of like trying to control that narrative and reply like no you don't understand fortunately shan and gas um you know i chatted to her about it she's like you

[01:26:03] know just understand i've seen players go down the spot you will not change the narrative you will burn out it's just gonna make the worst you just got a little b and i actually let go and

[01:26:12] there was some of the best advice i ever got you know and i'm so grateful to her for it um so while going through these experiences for months and months you know just survive an occupation

[01:26:21] mind space that's it um like i say lights on nobody's home it was incredibly tough for kirsten so so fast forward to like almost a year exactly after i get voted out you know get a call and

[01:26:34] go and like hey do you want to play again like yeah i want to play again but they're still they're still healing i mean the healing process only started like you know the show stopped airing

[01:26:43] like two months prior not even you know the healing process is like still in its infancy you know um and you know i'm here i'm going like hey listen can we play again like how's this

[01:26:55] you know also a business partner like hey dude can i just like off for another indeterminate period of time like um so it's really tough and you know i'd made a commitment to kirsten

[01:27:05] to say like look this time you know i know a bit more what i'm in for this is a freebie i had my run any day from here on out is a free day for me in the survival dream i never expected to play again

[01:27:14] you know um so she was again incredibly supportive and one of the other players who was called back who was also voted out at a similar time to me just just before me in season eight carla

[01:27:27] who i became good friends with because we were kind of each other's support system she actually turned down returning because she didn't feel like she feels like she just put the pieces of her life together again and although that she really wanted to play again this wasn't

[01:27:44] the right time for her and i really admired that decision because they always sitting like you know a month and a half later from the call sitting in a hotel room um

[01:27:53] um bawling my eyes out going like how could i have left kirsten again like this is just so not fair on her you know and like missing her completely and going like have i done the right thing you

[01:28:01] know um and that weighed heavy and it weighed heavy on me even the first three days of the game where i was like you know why am i atch i'm you know shouldn't be here i'm not good enough

[01:28:11] to be here that's been proven once before i've left her again like what an asshole you know and then eventually i just like pulled it all together and said like well you're fucking here don't waste opportunity like the only thing worse than being an asshole being

[01:28:25] here is being an asshole being here and not making it work and not doing anything with opportunity and wasting it um so yeah i mean that that that trauma and again even though she

[01:28:34] had experienced this once before and we were a bit more prepared it was incredibly tough while i was gone um very very tough for her um so and it is tough for partners so yeah it's it's it's

[01:28:46] that's why that's why i say it was so special for me to have that moment with with kirsten and steven as a part and to be able to share in some of the upside and the excitement of the survivor

[01:28:56] because all they really got was the downside before you know so this moment it doesn't even begin to make up for all of the hurt and not the the toughness but at least it's some

[01:29:05] some joy they get to share it's not only for the the loved ones and or the people in the game who no longer get to have the experience of going to finale week which is such a part of closure

[01:29:18] of now the season has aired it's months later um to be able to do that and then for the loved ones for my family i think that really helped it come together was at finale week they got to see this

[01:29:32] set like even though it's the fake set but they got to see this set they got to see jeff not that jeff introduced himself but they got to see jeff in person they got to meet the other

[01:29:40] parents the other loved ones and siblings and i think it gave the loved ones an experience of feeling a part of it and then this new school era there's not that at all so it is a hundred percent

[01:29:54] your person goes away does this thing and comes back and and was never apart so it's it's great that kirsten and steve got to be there with you 100 percent and to that whole finale element

[01:30:09] you know there is a closure that that experience brings right it's a celebration of everybody right and it's you know shedding attention on the entire cast as a as a unit and each individual rather than

[01:30:20] like because it can feel a bit exclusionary if you go a little bit earlier then later and you know it brings back and validates the experience and celebrates the the players and

[01:30:31] they should be celebrated you know uh for what they've given up i know it's it is an opportunity we choose and it's a phenomenal opportunity but but there's a price to pay you know so it's worth

[01:30:41] celebrating and um we survive a culture in this a is is is tiny so we don't have the viewing parties you know like the dom and win at the brison when presents you know i wish you know

[01:30:53] i'm not list by the way so we don't have that kind of a culture and season eight um we found out days before shooting we pre-shutter finale because of covid so um no no studio audience uh prerecorded

[01:31:09] no after party nothing i was like stuff this uh the network is quite sticky but our production company um they're amazing they love the people and the cast and they care so much right so

[01:31:23] they're they're amazing so don't don't mix the two but our network was like no party no the snow viewing party nothing i was like oh you know um now i collect survivor buffs i've got

[01:31:33] like ozzy buffs s a buffs a whole lot of us buffs i've actually got um naviti list i don't have a naviti buff but i've got the rest of the ghost island that's your naviti list i know right there's

[01:31:44] somebody who has an extra one who can fill that out for you just saying but i've got an amazing buff collection and i got into like the the um collecting uh community and you know

[01:32:01] production was like geez you know we're so sorry you're not getting this this this finale you know you can have some of our props to sell and raffle often i was like fuck that don't raffle leave it

[01:32:10] to me i know the collectors uh pre-sold a whole lot of these items to some collectors and within like three and a half four days with the help of santa nia and a few other people

[01:32:19] we put together our own finale viewing party at a you know which was a way to celebrate the cost you know and invites like alumni and their friends and family it was still under

[01:32:29] covid regulations and you know you'd be a certain size but just that little bit you know helped so when it actually went to air we had a little bit of a party and brought their closure season nine

[01:32:38] rolls around we come off the show and i said to production straight away i was like listen guys if there's no if there's no finale party um that the network's going to do let me know now

[01:32:47] i'll start organizing you know give me time i'll put something together and the network kept saying no we're gonna do something do something they let us down so many times right and four days

[01:32:56] before uh the airing they're like oh sorry we're not doing anything i'm like fuck you told me this months ago so i ended up fronting a whole lot of the money again the production

[01:33:04] company super cool giving us all sorts of amazing props to go and sell to fund our party can't get all that money in so i kind of pre-sold to guys that i don't know

[01:33:13] um we'll fund this i front the money to fly in the cost ways from the different parts of the country to put them up in hotels to book the venue all the stuff knowing i will recover it right

[01:33:23] but it's not like four times the cost that could have been if it was like months prior yes so pissed with them and something oh you're not made so you know so so that kind of stuff

[01:33:33] like really pissed the cost ways off from a network standpoint um but anyway the point is that that closure that little celebration is so so important for you know closing the chapter that

[01:33:46] was a great season and and just yeah like celebrating the cost and the people that are involved in it and yeah so i know i know we such you wanted to know some of the differences as well so yes

[01:33:57] here's some interesting things i want to throw down uh that i just lost it for a second the difference is you really you were gonna bring out because we were talking about similarities and differences and you had some more differences in an essay so from a budget standpoint

[01:34:10] there was i know season seven which was 2019 so 2019 would have been 38 39 or 37 38 or was that sorry i can i can figure this out 2017 was 35 36 so yeah 30 39 and 40 yeah 39 40 so around around that time um season seven was was filmed survive south cc seven that was the largest

[01:34:36] production budget the shows ever had and basically our entire budget for the season was the equivalent of the budget allocated towards if you if you took the entire us budget for a season and divided

[01:34:47] it equally amongst episodes um one survivor episode from the us would fund the entire season of uh saliva south africa you know so there's a huge budget difference right um which is quite insane

[01:35:00] that's a huge difference between one the budget for the whole season has to come from one episode of survivor where so does that bring up differences that you notice we've got one eighth of the

[01:35:13] the budget that australian survivor has right all four comparisons right um but that means like our crew is substantially smaller i believe that your cruise around 450 strong um ours is 150

[01:35:26] right so a third of the crew um so our downtime so when you're in holding when you're under gag order when you're blindfolded all that between challenges or being commuted that takes a little

[01:35:37] bit longer because you're using the same equipment at multiple locations that you don't have the same number of cameramen you've got to move more people there's more logistics around so that takes a bit more time that suited me because that's the only time i rested was because nobody

[01:35:50] could play and i could actually sleep peacefully for like 30 40 50 minutes at a time there was my like rest period like stress free rest period um so yeah the crew is is a big thing so and a lot of

[01:36:02] our crew works on a lot of the saffron crew or even non-safricans who work on the saffron crew work on the us uh show as well in australia and even expedition robinson and stuff again so

[01:36:14] there is that crossover there but i know it's substantially smaller okay it is time for the rapid round questions some of which we've been through but um we can get it all all in

[01:36:26] together here in case somebody skipped to the end to get these questions so how many times did you apply for survivor uh i applied five times across four different seasons um have you had time to

[01:36:40] think about what three words you describe yourself today so i can't remember what the regional ones were but i'd probably say like um empathetic definitely highly empathetic um playful and wow they're changing from earlier because i was in the mood earlier but probably

[01:37:02] probably vulnerable as well you know mm-hmm those those themes have come up throughout the conversation for sure that's probably what i'm feeling now i i think also just so so thoughtful you're a thoughtful person um what was the hardest part of the survivor experience and

[01:37:20] what was the best part for you post game um especially seeing you know like i say the effects on on loved ones so cursed in particular um leaving her behind and it not being easy for

[01:37:34] her when i when i uh got back even both times um that's that's definitely the toughest part um oh man i am so privileged to have so many highlights i really do i got more than my fair share

[01:37:48] um i think from a survivor fan point breaking the car curse was like yeah because it's like it's like it it's it's an individual immunity it's a car and it's a win and it's

[01:38:05] everything in between so i think that's such a like a deep survivor kind of thing it's so epic it's a really epic one it's it's something that that still feels like beyond me

[01:38:18] that this little dude got to do that's like pretty unique within the the context of survivor you know like although i don't feel like the real cost way or the you know like when uh you know

[01:38:30] i don't feel like i could be held in the same esteem like you know it's one of those things that kind of validates that hey you know like you know you did this thing so that and then the other

[01:38:38] one is definitely being able to share the moment with kirsten and steven um at the finale where the votes are read um that for me will be an absolute highlight of my life

[01:38:51] it's wonderful and and you can watch it which is lovely you can see it back um yeah okay if you could go and go back and give yourself one piece of advice on day one of the game what

[01:39:03] would it be chill chill if anybody watched season 8 watch season 8 i was so paranoid so skittish again i have so many reasons for that and there's some valid reasons but i did myself no

[01:39:16] f**king favors you're not the only threat there you know a million reasons why you should be voted out but there's a million other reasons everybody else could be voted out to you're

[01:39:24] not the only person on the island with the target like just f**king chill out relax yeah just just relax it's hard those first few days man it is uh

[01:39:38] you have to learn how to detach pretty early i think i think that's how i got through it um when you i'd like to know both times when you started the game did you believe you could win

[01:39:54] i believed i had the necessary skill sets and combination of skill sets that would stand me in good stead to win a season of survivor and that's one of the reasons why i applied landing on the beach

[01:40:09] both times i'm like no i'm in way over my head um season eight i just didn't ever get a grip on the game or footing in the game so that belief didn't actually ever culminate um in season nine

[01:40:22] although again in the back of my mind i'm like you've got all these things you've got what you need to be able to to win this game and to be fair anybody can win the game um but i think i only

[01:40:31] really started to re-believe that um after the steffi vote so going from final nine to final eight that's when i was really like okay now i've got this path to the end that's it feels it

[01:40:43] feels a bit more tangible now you know um but at the beginning of season nine i was like i said i was an emotional mess questioning why i was there again have i made the right decision all

[01:40:52] the insecurities came up like pre-merge boots like there's a reason you went home early so um it varied depending on where i was in the season but deep and not but and deep down though had you ever

[01:41:09] imagined yourself winning i'd imagined it yeah yeah definitely imagined it maybe that's like a manifestation i don't know i've always thought like so so the the mindset for many things is like

[01:41:26] why not me you know like yeah there's this there's like this this talk that happens where it's like oh that's never gonna happen or like you've auditioned so many times or like and this can

[01:41:34] happen in many areas of life and it's like oh that but it happens to people and people go out and chase these things and people go and achieve and live these dreams and i think the

[01:41:43] question was all like why not me why why shouldn't i why couldn't it be me it's gotta happen to someone so why can't this someone be me like why couldn't it be me that's why i buy lottery tickets

[01:41:52] you know somebody's gotta win 100 i remember thinking that about um first certainly about survivor like well if if people can get on why couldn't i get on and also with um switching

[01:42:08] from being in like a full-time corporate job and i would see people who traveled and worked for themselves and were individual entrepreneurs and i would just be like that at first i didn't

[01:42:21] understand even what that you're like locked in that how can you get out of those handcuffs and then you start to think well why if that person can do it like why can't it be me so

[01:42:35] i love that thought of whatever you're thinking about wanting getting on survivor changing your job or moving somewhere new or taking a vacation or going skydiving if that's what you want to do like why not you um usually the only people holding us back from it is ourselves

[01:42:52] to that point i have huge admiration for you moving from corporates and making that that change right because i've always been entrepreneurial right and i've had like success and failures in that space but i've always i've never been employed by anybody i've never

[01:43:08] had that corporate experience which i sometimes feel like i've missed out on some learnings and stuff again changing by your face i haven't but um so i've never had to make an alternative

[01:43:17] decision to make this huge life changing change and seeing my wife who isn't a corporate job and a number of friends who um who are corporate who have this entrepreneurial spirit who are just

[01:43:26] too scared to make that move like it is it is massive like it is a huge undertake because i have huge admiration for the fact that you you saw that thing you were like i want that

[01:43:36] i'm going to give up this risk this and go for that like it's it's massive so like that's yeah the huge admiration for that thank you yeah this has been way harder than being on survivor for sure

[01:43:48] this is a bigger challenge like definitely a lot of different things i would rather go start for 35 days every every summer than what a pleasure kind of these things you know um but

[01:44:01] we can do we can do what we want to if we you know if if we set our minds to it um absolutely often um are you a big reality tv show fan outside of survivor do you have another favorite

[01:44:15] so my wife and i do watch lots of reality tv um and we've just come off what is currently our favorite which is lego masters australia so we like australian reality v in particular

[01:44:28] um and lego masters is just like this really wholesome show right like a lot of reality tv has a bit of a nasty side to it whereas like lego masters is like so wholesome right the the host haymish

[01:44:43] is phenomenally funny the judge brick man is just so sweet he's just like this level of lego who when he judges and has to you know make a decision on which team's leaving

[01:44:56] the game he wells up and cries because it hurts him so much to see him happen to have to like tell a team that they're leaving there's no animosity between teams it's like it's all just about like

[01:45:06] they build these awesome lego sculptures it is competitive but there's no there's none of like the the negativity that comes with that you know it's just it's just wholesome reality tv

[01:45:15] and it's fun to watch so yeah so where is your favorite place in the world that listeners can visit i'll always advocate come visit s a come enjoy a safari come enjoy cape town for what it is

[01:45:30] um i will always play a little country uh that is a cool trip but outside of that um chris and i've been privileged to have traveled a bit um a number of places for a number of

[01:45:42] reasons but i think one of our most memorable and enjoyable ones was uh paquette's thailand um probably a combination of the you know we were 25 at the time around that age it was a nice age to

[01:45:54] travel together um so i think that's why it's got a special place in the heart it was also affordable our currency just so you know is it's currently like 20 20 rand to one dollar so currency's big

[01:46:06] thing was affordable for us but um it was a really special trip for us and i've got great associations with it so that's why i would probably suggest a paquette thailand but i mean i love it you

[01:46:17] can go anywhere like for me it's like you can go anywhere it's who you're with and what you make of it right you can go the most epic place on the earth and be like it's like an epiphany uh pg hat

[01:46:25] right that she talks about you know it's it's really more yeah you can go down that rabbit hole but you know what i'm saying yes i do and thailand is definitely my top three of places but we

[01:46:36] i didn't make it to put that so um i cannot wait to go back my my trip to thailand got cut short from covid so it's definitely at the top of my list of places to go back to um what is a book that you've

[01:46:49] read that's changed your life i've been waiting for this one to come up i'm not much of a reader sad i feel like everyone gets nervous about this one maybe i should take it out i maybe i should

[01:46:59] say if you've ever read a book one is the one that you've loved it's great because i mean pg it gave you know pg spoke about surmising the the five what is called them five rules or five um

[01:47:13] yeah i mean that can that can't have things to do every day for being happy yes and that came from a book as well so i mean if you didn't have that question i wouldn't have

[01:47:20] taken those pointers right so yes keep it in but um not a not a huge huge reader but something that um i had read in preparation for for subarba that actually made me think differently about

[01:47:33] a lot of things is uh never split the difference um which is a yeah negotiating book by chris fos former fb r hostage negotiator whatever whatever um really interesting not just from a negotiating

[01:47:47] standpoint but i think um yeah it's it's it's interesting in many many ways so in the very few books that i've read that one is currently a standout for me and would suggest it to somebody

[01:47:59] who is going to be on survivor as well exactly uh do you have a favorite podcast or a singular podcast episode that you couldn't stop thinking about no i listened to a wide range of things um so

[01:48:18] and i haven't been listening to podcasts as much lately because i used to do it when i'd travel between captown and joeberg or i'd be driving i now no longer drive long distances or travel by

[01:48:27] flights so i don't listen to as many podcasts um but obviously i mean i've survived the global the shenan i follow that uh your podcast of now begins to follow course course for reality

[01:48:38] it's your favorite i mean i'm busy plugging it to people are already listening i mean um so so i mean i've you know like sam and synec there's there's been some interesting interesting chats there that i've really enjoyed as well so yeah i've got like a

[01:48:54] a kind of like take bits and pieces from everywhere so i can't pin down to a particular thing sorry that's okay don't apologize um are you uh do you listen to me i'm an old lady i've

[01:49:05] add this one so to get some hints from other people do you have song that you're listening to on repeat or a band that you recommend only okay song this has been throughout my life for

[01:49:16] some reason zombie the cranberries that's like been an all-time favorite of mine that always comes up for me and i will always listen to you and will always be in my top

[01:49:26] like three favorites don't know why just awesome and other side red hot chili peppers um those are like two of my go-to's any situation i'm happy i can listen to those i'm sad i want to listen to

[01:49:39] those you know not that i'm like a big muso or whatever but um yeah that's that's those my go-to's hey i know both of those so that's good that's exciting um so where where can people find

[01:49:52] you what handles on social media do you have projects you're working on you want people to check out right now where if people have loved love these two hours of dina where should they

[01:50:02] spend more time with you so social media i mean i'm not great at social media but um twitter i'm at also dino dino has taken um instagram i'm that guy dino super responsive in dms as well

[01:50:19] so if you ever curious or want to chat like pop your message happy to to chat game or whatever um that's those the two places you can find me um something that's coming up is like pg said

[01:50:34] they've got the reality escape convention being an escape room business owner i'll be attending the convention as a guest but also as a speaker with my business partner which is quite cool that's coming up 19 20 august which is quite a privilege to to be a part of that

[01:50:49] that's actually the other podcast that i listen to religiously sorry i associated with a bit of work but their their reality escape pod is phenomenal and it's done so much for for my thinking and

[01:51:00] approaching my business as well um so yeah uh project through a camera we're busy building our latest escape room um and what's very cool is i hit up the art guys and set design guys from survivor

[01:51:15] and they are now involved in building our next next escape room and they busy taking it next level which is super cool so survivors the gift that just keeps on freaking giving so awesome and

[01:51:25] where is that escape room going to be so that's at our business location which is one of the most beautiful places in Cape Town and great destination so we're based at the vna waterfront uh in Cape

[01:51:39] Town so we were so privileged to be where we're at and yeah we're just adding it to our our current space there so very very excited about that that's amazing if you want to experience a survivor production level escape room from a winner of survivor so to

[01:51:57] Cape Town put it on your list of things to do it sounds awesome oh well dino i was fascinated hearing about a different perspective a different experience so much the same and so much different

[01:52:15] thank you for taking time with me this afternoon to go through your survivor experiences and sharing with our group so we can see the survivor world in an even bigger lens i really appreciate you

[01:52:27] being here with me today was so fun no thank you for including me in this and making me a part of it like i could say i feel super super privileged um and it was fun hanging out

[01:52:38] thank you for putting up with me for however long i hope i didn't lose any of your listeners along the way but yeah it's super fun to chat and yeah i mean we're gonna obviously carry on chatting

[01:52:48] and i will definitely see you on the felt at some point that's right we'll we'll see you soon thank you all for going on that journey with us i think i could talk to dino all day every day about

[01:53:00] survivor he's somebody who i would love to talk about survivor with after every episode he's just such a fan to his core and while we didn't get to spend a ton of time talking about

[01:53:12] strategy i just loved his perspective and insights on the game of survivor and being a human who goes through the experience so huge thanks to dino for joining me and huge thanks to all of you

[01:53:26] for listening i'm so thankful for each of you who are listening to this podcast and have allowed this series to continue we've got one episode left stay tuned next week for an incredible

[01:53:39] finale episode have a good week everybody i'd like to thank rob cester nino scott st pierre and the entire rjp crew for helping make this dream come true jillian goodheart is the editor

[01:53:55] tricky rice thank you for the artwork to all my guests thank you for your time honesty bravery and vulnerability i'm thankful from the bottom of my heart thank you to my dear friend from survivor ghost island jacob durwin for allowing us to use his songs mirror from

[01:54:10] manhattan one of my favorite songs of all time and one i played on repeat for an entire year while i recovered from my own survivor journey to you the listeners who have made it this far

[01:54:21] thank you for giving me and these multifaceted guests time in your ears as our whole selves may each of your realities lead you down a road of peace joy community and a whole lot of adventure

[01:54:33] and now here's jacob durwin with mira from manhattan her name is mira from manhattan her name is jelsie from jelsie her name is christa from columbus it doesn't matter much to me now she's staring out the window she's turning on the night

[01:55:11] she takes a pen to her new novel and the airplane takes flight mmm i never knew mmm i never knew mmm i never knew i never knew you mmm now we're flying out to dublin just to stop along the trail mira hops from there to paris

[01:56:20] i ride to belfast on the rail now she's cheering in the winery i'm staring at the sea her name is mira from manhattan it doesn't matter much to me mmm i never knew mmm i never knew mmm i never knew i never knew you you

[01:57:14] me i'm making a podcast can you even believe it i can't me and start. Made for Germany, powered by Shopify.