Rachel LaMont Post-Season Interview | Survivor 47

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, Rob Cesternino here and we are thrilled to be here with the winner of Survivor 47, the great Rachel LaMont. Rachel, how are you? I'm good. How are you, Rob? Look, I'm fine. I'm blessed to be here with you today because we have so much to get to in our power hour today, Rachel.

[00:00:24] Okay, real quick, since we talked to you, it's been, what, three-ish weeks with you being a millionaire. How has the holidays been the last couple of weeks? It's been wonderful. It's been crazy. I really thought that it would like sink in more once it was on TV and everyone knew, and it still feels very crazy and surreal. I've listened to so many hours of post-game deep dives,

[00:00:48] and it's a little mind-boggling that I'm here for my own, and so it's like a dream come true. Everything, I mean, it's like, you know, the super fan to Survivor winner, like, it's a trajectory not many people get to experience, and it's truly... Must be nice. A dream come true is like, it feels like an understatement. Like, it's just very, the whole experience has been very surreal, and it's just, it's awesome.

[00:01:13] Well, I've been thrilled for you this whole way, and so I'm really glad to be able to get into your experience today. And so I guess let's go back to the early days of Survivor 47, and here you are as part of this Gata tribe, and the first thing that we really get to see you talk about in the show is when we meet Andy,

[00:01:40] and Andy sizes you up as a good person to work with and wants to have this morning meeting with you, and you think that's a bad idea, and yet, nevertheless... Yeah. You're meeting with Andy. Yeah. So I think that like, I feel like what my mentality into this, and some of this is like truly colored by the fact that I was an alternate, right?

[00:02:04] And so like, I had put my feet in this Vegean sand before and like had to go home, and this was finally my shot. And so like, having someone who felt very sloppy, and like a little bit like, just too overt, like I mean, part of the reason that John and Andy were like, on the bottom, which is not the whole reason, but like was 20 minutes into getting to camp for the first time, like they went off by themselves.

[00:02:30] And it was just like, you know, the four of us looked at each other and we're like, well, here it is, like, here's the four, you know? And so I think that like, it already had tendencies, both John and Andy, of like a little bit of like, just mess, right? A little too like casual about not being careful. And then him saying like, oh, I just want to wake up. I don't want to talk strategy. I want to like, just get to know you. And I was like, we have all day to do that.

[00:02:55] Like we can sit across camp together away from everybody and chat for like an hour and no one's going to think anything of it. But like we can't get up in the middle of the night and go hang out. And so like him waking me up, it was so loud. It was like, we're all right next to each other. I'm like, I am not the only person that just woke up. And I go down to the beach again. He says the same thing he said during the day, which was like, I don't want to talk strategy. I just want to talk. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, I have spent years trying to get here.

[00:03:24] It is night two. We don't even know if we're going to tribal. Like I am not, I'm not doing this. Like I just was not willing to like my perception of him in that moment was like, you are just like a messy social player. And I don't want to be taken down and like isolated by everyone else because they think that I'm like trying to work with you. And so it just, I did like Andy and I was like open to working with him, but he, it was just, I had no idea he was on the brink of a breakdown. Like I, you know, I just didn't, I didn't have that context.

[00:03:54] And so I'm just like, we do not need to be doing this right now. And this is very suspicious. And, um, it, I was just so paranoid about how it would be perceived by the other people that I knew had woken up as well, that I just wanted to get back to camp and like, be able to kind of write that off as like a, that wasn't my idea guys. And that's the big story that we're following in the show. But from your perspective, what do you remember most about those early days at Ghana?

[00:04:20] I really feel like I came into the game worrying that I was going to overthink worrying that I was going to be paranoid. And I just like wanted to be in an alliance with people, trust them, let them trust, give them all the reasons to trust me. And so Anika and I were felt like we were in the middle of these two groups. And then by the time Andy wakes me up, there were things John was doing that were just kind of like cagey, I think is the best word to describe John in those early days where like, he would be like, I feel good about you.

[00:04:50] But like, wouldn't put any kind of like actual commitment or like, you know, this like alliance of four of like Anika, me, John. And like that never, we never like did that. Like we never came together and said, this is a four, you know? And so like, I just, Anika and I both leaned towards Sam and Sierra because they just felt more steady and more like predict, not predictable, but you know, not like, I don't know. Like Andy and John both had things that made them feel like a little bit messy.

[00:05:19] And so it just felt more reliable to go with this like solid four. Every time we talked to Sam and Sierra, they're like, we're together. We're the four. So it's just, you have to go with the people that make you feel the best that early when you don't really have any other information. And so like, that's what I remember the most is being like, we're in the middle. We're in a good spot just in case something crazy happened. The journey happened. Someone loses something. But like, we were definitely leaning Sam and Sierra even like by the morning of the immunity challenge.

[00:05:44] Like, I don't think Andy's blow up like had much impact on that part of it outside of just being able to be like, well, he's the one that like put him and John in the spotlight. So like, we should be deciding between those two people and nobody else. You know, that was kind of like the only thing for me that like Andy really like his thing at the immunity challenge really like mattered to me. So we know John ultimately is going to go home. Andy is going to stay.

[00:06:12] What were those next seven or eight days like for you between when John went home and when Annika gets blindsided? Well, certainly a mismanagement of Andy because again, I think there were so many things that my attempt to like not become too paranoid and not overplay and be seen as too like sneaky made me too complacent.

[00:06:38] I think like I went too far on the scale to like show that I was loyal and show that I was trusting and I just feel like I didn't. I didn't try to like keep Andy as like a side option, which you should do. But at the same time, my biggest fear was like I do this. It gets back to people and now I'm at the bottom just because I was trying to keep Andy like as an option. Like when I have a majority four in a group of five, like it just seemed so not like it just didn't seem like a good idea.

[00:07:04] And so I just wasn't like I would talk to Andy, but like I wasn't really like willing to talk game because I didn't I was not willing to put any of the four's name out there to Andy in case that that somehow backfired on me. So like that was that was probably like the thing I was doing wrong during that time.

[00:07:21] But I in a way, like I don't regret doing I just feel like with what I know about about especially about Andy now, knowing that he probably would have fed that to Sam and would have, you know, like that could have I could have been the boot instead of Annika when that ultimately comes. So like it's just I feel like I made the decision with the information I had. And like the thing that I underestimated about Andy was that and Sam, I guess, was that they were like doing shit in the background that I didn't I wasn't aware of.

[00:07:48] And I felt like there was just no to me. I was aware of the fact that Sam might want to go with Andy. It was absurd that Sierra would ever flip on Annika and I for Andy. And like, yeah, you did a really good job of just complaining about him and and talking about how much she did not like him. And like just and, you know, after Annika goes home, I spill all of this to Andy. I'm like, they have done nothing for the past week except talk crap about you. I talk about how much they don't trust you, how much they don't like you, how sloppy you are, all this stuff.

[00:08:16] And he was just like, oh, like, you know, and I think that it was kind of planted that seed of like going into the merge where he was willing to flip because I was like, you know, how the hell did this happen? Like, it was just very crazy. So, yeah. Do you feel like was there something that you missed on the Annika vote when you look back and think that like, OK, I should have maybe seen that coming? I think there were signs with Sierra.

[00:08:42] I can't think of a specific moment now, which is a bummer because I do wish I had like picked those little. But I remember when it happened, me reflecting on the conversations I had that day and being like that thing Sierra said, that was a slip. Like, I thought that it was just kind of like a like a moment where she just misspoke and I like turned a red flag into like a yellow flag in my attempt to just like believe in my alliance and like not become too paranoid.

[00:09:08] And I think that like those were the things that in the beginning of the game, I was not allowing myself to see objectively. I was just like believing the better the thing I wanted to believe versus like the evidence that was like being thrown at me. But I yeah, it was like, again, that like idea of trying to not become too paranoid. Just I like turn the gauge like too far in the opposite direction.

[00:09:32] So there's so much of your story that I feel like from the television show takes place once we get to the tribes coming together. But is there anything that happened that you feel like was important to your story that we really didn't get to see before the merge? Yeah, I think the biggest thing was that. OK, well, actually, this really quick anecdote about Rice Gate, because it's like not that important, but it's just interesting. So like is it officially a gate? Well, I don't know. That's what we called it in the game.

[00:10:02] Yeah, it's just like, yeah, I guess it's not a gate. It's just rice. What do we call it? Rice time? I don't know. Yeah, it just sounds it's rolls off the tongue. I see. But we had drawn shells as a four. The God of four had drawn shells for the first journey because none of us wanted to go, but we didn't want Andy to go. And I drew the odd shell. I drew the black shell. And like I was petrified. I did not want to go on a pre-merged journey any kind. I did not want to risk my vote. I did not want to like be seen as suspicious.

[00:10:31] So I was like very stressed about this. And then after rice gate happened, everyone had been looking at me like Jeff had like called me out in front of everybody. And we go back to camp and I was like, guys, like I don't think it's a good idea if I go on the first journey, because I think anything I might say, people may not believe me because they now think that I'm sneaky or like conniving. And Sam and Sierra were like pretty much like, no, I don't want to go. And Anika was like, I'll go instead.

[00:10:58] And so like there's a world where that doesn't happen. I don't speak up. Like I didn't want to go. And so like I was happy to like try and push it on someone else. But if I had gone and lost my vote, like I don't know if that would have changed anything. But it is just like an interesting like parallel universe that, you know, that's that's like the true impact of of rice gate. I think it was me not going on the journey like I should have. OK. All right. So we end up getting with the tribes back together.

[00:11:24] And this is when you have come out of that blindsided, which I think that you really reacted well to that. I think there's a world where somebody gets blindsided and does not want to try to work with the people from their original tribe. You said you were especially blindsided by Sierra, but it seemed like that you and she were able to patch things up. Yeah. So Sierra also did a really good job post that. So we know now that she had been plotting with Sam since like day two to vote Annika out. I did not know that.

[00:11:53] And when we came back to camp after the vote, she was like, I'll be the first to say I'm so sorry, Rachel. I found out about this just a couple hours ago that Annika on the journey, like told everybody that Sam and I were running GATA. Andy found out when he went on his journey and like they just told me. And that is why I had to vote her out. Like, I'm so sorry.

[00:12:14] And so there is, you know, and because Sam and Andy are sitting there and they're not refuting, like they're they're giving her this past to like continue, you know, lie to me and like keep bonds with me. Like I had no reason to suspect that was a lie. And so I went into the merge being like she still betrayed me. But like Sierra is my closest person. Sam has obviously been plotting this for a lot longer. So like arm's length of like, I'm not going to burn everybody I'm coming in the merge with. We've been together for, you know, almost two weeks.

[00:12:43] Like I can't just write them off. And then Andy was very much. I didn't really want to work with Andy, but also I just written his name down. So I just figured that he would never trust me again either. And so that's kind of like how I went into the merge. What I was telling people, I was like, I feel OK. Like I was just blindsided. I was very Mariah was very much on my brain. And I was like, I'm not pretending like Mariah, right? Yeah. For 46. Where she went in acting like she was a part of the group that had just blindsided her. And I was very not doing that.

[00:13:11] I was like, I was just blindsided, you know, and like this is how I feel about my tribe. But like I am open to like other opportunities. And another thing pre-merge that was really important, I think, is like meeting Caroline and Sue. And I literally on the boat ride back from the hot dog social was like, I could see my like me, Sue, Annika and myself being the final four. Like that's how much I really like felt good about Caroline and Sue and Tiana and Kyle as well.

[00:13:39] But like it was very those two were very focused on them in particular coming out of the social. So that was kind of like my mentality coming to merge is like heavy going into Caroline again and being like, hey, like I want to work with you. Like, I don't know if I can trust anybody on GATA. And so also the first person I like talked to on the beach at merge was Saul. We hugged. I was like, so excited to meet you. He said, like, I cannot wait to work with you.

[00:14:08] And so we were like, we're going to talk later. We go off later and we basically make an alliance. And we were like, OK, we are probably kind of on opposite sides here. And like, let's just work, recon, keep each other safe. Like we will like meet up and exchange information. And like, that's how our relationship will go. And so, you know, that's a lot of the reason why he sent me that advantage. Like it wasn't just to break up Tuku. It was very much because he also wanted to work with me. So, yeah.

[00:14:37] So Rome is going to be sort of the consensus merge vote that ends up being vulnerable here. Was there any part of your story that overlaps with Rome going home? No. I mean, I probably connected with him the least at the merge. Like I wasn't he wasn't a person of mine and he wasn't someone that I was really gunning to work with. So I just wasn't going to stick my neck out for him as far as like the Andy Hinky boat stuff goes.

[00:15:04] Again, I've been telling everybody Andy can't like I can't work with Andy because Andy's never going to trust me. And so at the merge feast, we're going through every single person that's not there to like bring up who should be the Hinky. And like everyone's defending Sue's defending Gabe, like Teenie's defending Saul. And then like Andy is the last person brought up. And I'm not going to say anything because that doesn't align with the story I've been telling everybody. I look at Sam and Sierra and they just kind of shrug. And so like that's how that happened.

[00:15:33] It was not like no one was like, yes, do Andy. It was just kind of like everyone had a strong stance for everybody else except Andy. So it just and I was not the person to be. Yeah. So and I thought it was good luck for you that you end up being on the team that wins that goes there that potentially that could have been your name that got thrown out. It could have been. Yeah. I mean, I do. Yeah. That's true. I would have to like think harder. I haven't actually thought about that.

[00:16:03] Well, we don't have that kind of time. So let's talk about the big vote, which really sends your game into high gear because after that, OK, we have great. We're merged. Hold that thought. We're split up and you get a very unlucky draw where you're with the entire Tuku tribe. Shades of Amber Berkich then. Yeah. And I did not have a Rob. Yeah. Unfortunately.

[00:16:33] Well, I guess my Rob was Saul, but not in the same way. And yeah, I think that like the biggest thing about this that was so like tragic for my game at the time was like Tuku were the people I wanted to work with.

[00:16:48] And so being put in this situation was not only unfortunate because of the draw itself, but it was like now these people that are clearly at least some of them are lying to me, like are the people that I want to try and work with. And so it's just this very complex thing where there's so much about like. I think looking back, I'm like, oh, yeah, of course, I would have played my shot in the dark if I didn't have the advantage.

[00:17:16] But I went back to my notes that I took when I got home and like I said, I was not sure. I said like I have a quote here. In hindsight, I should have played my shot in the dark 100 percent if I was staying. But in the moment, it felt so much more complicated than that. I was aware they didn't need my vote, but this was also the most crucial time in the game for making relationships and showing trust. And this was the group I was interested in working with long term. So it felt like even if they weren't targeting me and I didn't vote with them, what did I just like ruin trust wise?

[00:17:45] Would it have basically been a burnt bridge anyway? And so like, yeah, so much more complexity to whether or not I should try and vote with them. Like I knew that they didn't need my vote, but it just didn't like their stories. Tuku's dysfunction that day was like outrageous. Like it was because it was also Tiana was being truthful. Kyle was also being truthful. But they Tiana wanted Gabe and Kyle wanted Caroline.

[00:18:10] And then like Sue and Caroline like were pretending to want Gabe, but they had said no. And then they changed their mind. And like it was just I felt like completely spun around that entire like that was probably the worst day of the entire game for me, because I just was like, I feel hopeless and I feel like I'm going to look really freaking stupid when I go home. Like that's how it felt. Rachel, what name were you planning to write down that night?

[00:18:37] If I did not play my shot in the dark, I believe I would have written Gabe's name down. Okay. Because I had more faith in Tiana than I did in Kyle. And I wanted to work with Sue and Caroline more than I did Kyle. But a miracle happens. A miracle. You open your bag and you get a little note. Yeah. A parachute. So my instincts were Sam or Saul.

[00:19:07] And once I played it, I was like, it has to be Saul because Sam's face was so outrageous that I was like, if he's acting, it's like the worst acting job of all time. So I remember being like, I think it has to be Saul, which is why I was so surprised when he immediately was like, it was not me. And I was like, what? And so, yeah, I laid the advantage. I was very paranoid about drawing attention to myself again. I'm like, this is not a move. And yet it will be perceived as one. And literally like when they came back into camp, Gabe hugs me and he's like, nice move. And I was like, it wasn't a move. I didn't do anything.

[00:19:36] I was so annoyed. Was this like your first like dress rehearsal for a Rachel's funeral? Yeah. I mean, I think that there was like weird parallels for a lot of things in our season, like the final six. Yeah. Well, the final like so me like tricking Andy when Andy's trying to jury manage me goes back to like, you know, me, me and Annika trying to trick Andy when Andy's tricking us. Like it's it's like this weird there's these weird parallels like the this safety without power thing.

[00:20:05] Also, the Kyle though, which like was a eulogy for Kyle, which was not shown, but like that was where I got the idea for the final six. So like it's there was just like a lot of these like kind of motifs in our season. Really interesting. Okay. So you come back, you're saved. And is this the point where you started to realize that? Okay, wait, I have kind of like a big target on my back. Yes and no. I mean, like I was very worried. I did like Saul was so mad that I was like whoever sent it to me. But that was so intentional.

[00:20:34] I was so much trying to like take the attention off of myself and be like, I didn't do anything except find this. Like, you know, and and so I did feel like there was some heat on me. But then like so immediately with the Sierra vote happening, like I think that that put me in the like position of like a nothing, you know, in the Rob Cessarino term. And I was so much of a free agent that I I knew that I was like in people's minds.

[00:21:01] Like also Saul had basically told me from the start that he didn't trust Genevieve long term. He was like Lava was okay right now. But like, I don't trust Genevieve long term. I'm very good with me. And I was also immediately like every conversation I had at the merge with Genevieve. I was like, this chick gives me nothing, like absolutely nothing. And so that was like and then I would go to Saul and be like, she just like never speaks. She just listens to everybody talking. And he's like, yeah, you should watch out for her. And then after the Sierra vote, he was like she was trying to get you out.

[00:21:31] And I was the person that like defended you. And so that was like I knew that I was in like Genevieve's eyesight from very early in the merge. I just didn't know like exactly who else was looking at me. Like I was shocked to see even in the replay that like Gabe and Caroline were both saying that stuff at the Tuku tribal. Like I had no idea that they felt that way about me. Okay. So you come back and this is the day that there's the auction.

[00:21:55] And you are, you know, have a lot to do here this day because you end up with your money. You bid on one of the covered items. And Jeff asks you, okay, Rachel, what do you think is under here? And you guessed correctly. It's crazy. I some people are like, do you think you could have you smelled it? And I was like, maybe. But it just like I thought it was going to be a bad item.

[00:22:24] I was like when he went back, I was like, this is my item. I don't care. I don't want to lose my vote. But like I think it's going to be a bad one. And then the way he walked out with it, that is when I was like, it's a burger. So there's no way I smelled it because he wasn't even near me yet. But like I just I don't know. Something in my body said burger. And so I was just like, well, it's a burger. And I couldn't couldn't believe it. Yeah. And so then more importantly than the burger, you get the scroll, which has the clue to the hidden immunity idol.

[00:22:54] In the fries. Yes. Wild. And what's so interesting is I actually had this like very paranoid thought that I wasn't the only person that got the clue. So I had a lot of urgency for getting the idol as soon as possible. I actually tried that night in the dark after everyone was sleeping. But the problem is, is that like the tarp is like Genevieve slept. Her head was like two feet below where the idol was in the tarp.

[00:23:20] And so like the second I started like trying to like use the machete to like it was so like I popped one seam and it was like definitely loud. And I was like, oh, I cannot do this right now. It's so quiet out there. And so I just like put it back. And that's why I had to do it the next day. But I did like I had a lot of people are like it looks so easy. And I was like, OK, these are like the things that are cut out that I feel like add some context. So when we were on lava with Tuku that day, they have a swing.

[00:23:49] We got home back home back to Becca Beach. And I was like, guys, you guys had a swing. That's so cool. Can we make one? And everyone's like, oh, yeah, like I don't think we have enough rope. And so when I was like scoping out the tarp for the idol, the bottom eyelets had like long strings of rope that weren't attached to anything. And I was like, I hadn't said anything about it. But then the next morning when I realized I couldn't get it at night, I was like, I realized we have rope. Like we have extra rope on the tarp. Like I think we can make the swing.

[00:24:18] And everyone's like, oh, you know, and then a couple hours later, I like bring it up again, just like casually. And then that gave me license when it did clear out a little bit to have an excuse to be near the tarp with the machete. And so like I was able to do it so naturally in broad daylight because like I think that it's not just no one suspected me. No one came up to me. No one asked me. But like I think the internal confidence you get when you have a story is like part of like why I was able to do it in the way that I did.

[00:24:45] Where it's like I wasn't worried about someone being like, what are you up to? And I would have like I was also cutting the underside of the tarp, not the top, so that I could flip it back down and no one could see that it was ripped. So like there were just things that I had put into place to make sure that like I would not get caught. And so, yeah, not important, but just like fun little stuff. No, but it was daring because somebody's like, hey, why are you cutting our tarp? Like that is we need that. I know.

[00:25:13] And I would have and then cut the rope and been like, I'm getting that rope for the swing. And when I was done getting the idol, I cut the rope off of both sides and wound it up and went back into camp being like, I got the rope for the swing, guys. And I like put it in the toolbox. Like I just felt like having the backstory is part of like what allowed me to not look or act suspicious in the moment. Yeah.

[00:25:33] OK, so then, of course, this is the tribal council where, OK, you're feeling like, OK, we're going to work with Lavo and we're going to take out somebody from Tuku at this tribal council. But meanwhile, Tuku is actually the ones working with Lavo. They're going to work on taking out somebody from your tribe. And there are people who are saying vote out Rachel. Some people say they vote out Sam, vote out Sierra. They ultimately decide on Sierra.

[00:26:01] But you, Rachel, change the game of Survivor that night. Yeah. I mean, I knew it was clever. I didn't think about its impact. It was such a reactive move. Like people are like, why didn't you bring up final tribal? It was like such a defensive, reactive move in the moment. It was not something I did it so intentionally. So I did not and I did not want to call attention to the fact that I was left out of the boat again. You know, that wasn't something I wanted to like talk about and bring up on purpose at final tribal anyway.

[00:26:30] But yeah, I was sitting there right before we left for tribal. I mean, the whole day you saw like Sierra and I being like, something's going on. But Gabe thought it was Caroline. Caroline thought it was Gabe. That was a story I believe to be true. Ten minutes before we leave for tribal, they are sitting around the campfire and Gabe's like, he's like throwing his head back in his Gabe way, laughing hysterically with Caroline. And I was like, what the fuck? Like this is not, something's wrong. You know, like this is not right.

[00:26:56] Like even if he thought she's going home, he's not acting this way around her if he's targeting her tonight. And like I remember like Saul was sitting next to me and I was like, I'm so paranoid right now. And he said, trust me, it's not you. And I was like, what? And then we go to tribal. And I am like spinning being like Saul is supposed to be my brand new ally that he's feeding me all this information. He did not say anything to me until I said something to him.

[00:27:23] And now I'm like, if I'm the target, that would be what you would say to me because you don't want me playing my shot in the dark. You don't want me being defensive in any way. You want me to be comfortable. And so I'm spinning this whole time. Gabe is talking about like like he said, Jeff's like, what's this vote about, Gabe? And he was like this. I think we're going to look back and this is going to be the most consequential vote of Survivor 47. And I was like, he is not voting out Caroline right now. Like what is going on?

[00:27:52] And so I was just so it was so like powerful in the game. It was clear that he was like a power player that I was not willing to write his name down and go back to camp with him. And so I didn't know what to do. Like I was like, I can't just randomly pick somebody else to vote for. And that is when I was like, oh, my God, I can play my shot in the dark and not vote for anybody. And you see me like rummaging. I had no idea where it was. I was rummaging in my bag at that moment trying to find it.

[00:28:15] And while I'm doing that, I'm like, oh, and then if people freak out when I say I played it, then I'll know I should play my idol, you know? And so like that is how that happened. And that's why I never thought about it as a move because it wasn't something that I like plotted. It was just something that I was like in the moment. Like, how do I get out of this situation that I'm in? And like that was what I thought of. Was there any specific reaction you were looking for? Were you looking at any specific person to gauge for a reaction? Well, the first thing when I stood up to play it, Sue said something.

[00:28:45] You hear it. I forgot. I always think it's like you go, girl, but it was it was a good for you or something. And I was like, OK, that's that's not what she would say if she was like scared. And then I think I was looking. My thing was a couple of people can bluff, but like seven, eight people can't bluff. And so I was really just trying to like look around, look to see if anybody makes eye contact in a significant way. Like, are they like, you know, like so it wasn't any person in particular. It was truly me scanning the room. I was in one whispering.

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[00:31:12] You get back to camp then. Okay. Sierra has been blindsided. You said in the Final Travel Council, this was your worst moment. It was because it was just this idea that Sam and Andy or Sam had burned me in the pre-merge with Annika. Tuku was going to vote me out two days earlier and now Lavo also turned. And it was just like every single person here has already lied and burned me. And it is like we're halfway through the game.

[00:31:40] I was just completely alone. Sam and I came back. He was pissed at me because he thought I was in on the vote. That's why I was like, no, I blame my shot in the dark because I was worried it was me. And so we were both like, okay, like screw everybody. Good luck. We can't work together. Like that's why we were targeted in the first place because they think we're strong. And I like laid in the dark that night being like, oh my God. Like I, but I think that the mentality that came in where I was like, I want to be in an alliance. I want to like work with people.

[00:32:10] It just like, that was the moment where it was like, that's not your game. And you need to figure out a different way to play. And like, that is kind of what gave, like, I felt like they did the right thing by voting Sierra out because if they voted Sam out, Sierra and I would have stuck together. If they voted Sam out or me out, Sierra and Sam would have stuck together. And like, she was the glue between us. And so they really just kind of decimated us. And, um, it had the intended effect, but it also gave me what I felt like was like licensed to play.

[00:32:38] However I wanted the rest of the game. Cause I had nothing to lose at that point. Like I felt like I was going to go out in the next vote or two if I didn't do something different. And so I just immediately, I like cried to Sue cause she's like, you know, she's like more heart, like, oh, I love an underdog. And so I was like, Sue, I'm all alone. And then like Caroline came to me the next morning and was like, well, I went to her, but we talked and she was like, look, I love Sue. She's my number one, obviously, but I want strategic partner. I want it to be you.

[00:33:06] And so like, we had already had trickles of that. And it was like, I was so against Tuku after that Tuku tribal. But then at that point, I wanted to go back to the people that I wanted to work with. If everyone burned me and that I might as well go back to the people that I felt the best about. And that's when I really solidified with Caroline and Sue and even Gabe and Kyle at that point, like I was like in on Tuku. And that's really why Sam and I went completely opposite directions because he was so in on Genevieve and like, like Lavo.

[00:33:32] And so it was really kind of like at that point, we never even really like tried to work together again. Okay. So the next vote is the Saul vote. And I think this is something that really in the new era, I feel like it doesn't really come through where that this is like one day later. This is one of the, the Saul vote all happens in one day. And I think that for the people at home, I think you still feel like, oh, it's three days in between tribal councils. But this is, you know, 24 hours later after Sierra has gone home.

[00:34:01] Now, uh, this is the Saul vote and you have to, uh, go and play the reverse Jenga to not lose your vote. Very fun game, honestly. But yeah, maybe not for TV, but it was really fun for us. Yeah. Uh, and, but then the big thing in terms of the game that happens is that, okay. Genevieve is looking for votes and is it, is it Genevieve that tells you or Andy tells you? Uh, they're together when they tell me. So I come back.

[00:34:28] The problem with that day in particular was that because we were on the journey, I got back to camp like maybe an hour before we left for tribal. It was so late in the day. And so, um, and then I immediately like went for a walk. So it was like, I came back with so little time to spare to actually strategize. And so, um, uh, I get back to camp. Caroline immediately is like, Hey, uh, Andy and Genevieve are going to take you aside and tell you the plan. And that's what we're doing tonight. Okay. And I was like, okay. And I was just so fricking grateful to be in on a boat.

[00:34:57] That's all I wanted for like three votes. And so we go off with them and they're both like, Hey, the votes all Genevieve's like the votes all everybody knows except teeny and Sam. And, uh, she's like, if you guys like me and Andy, if you guys want to include Sam, you can, we don't need him. And I, we don't care, but like, uh, he's like, you're more your person than anybody else's. So like, you know, do whatever you want.

[00:35:25] And so Genevieve walks away, Andy and I are like, let's leave Sam on the bottom. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay. Walk back into camp. And, um, again, Sue, I think Sue and Caroline also reiterated that like we could bring Sam in. And so I was not going to, but then Sam and I are sitting in the shelter and we had agreed when we were like, okay, good luck. We had agreed like to try and help each other if we could, but we're just not going to work together. And so, um, we're sitting there, he's like moping.

[00:35:53] He's like, nobody's talking to me all day. And he's just like, really like just guilting me. And that's why when he starts to like, like guess, I'm like, okay, yes. You know, and I'm like, I don't want them to know, like, I'm just trying to preserve this relationship with him. So that hopefully like I can like use him at some point if I need to, you know, like, and, um, and I didn't want him, you know, like people knowing that he knew, but I just wanted to reassure him. It was not him.

[00:36:22] And then he goes and immediately freaking blows it up. I was so glad I told Derek, like this story. And he, I was like, he immediately went. And then like, you see the camera guy get up and walk. And Derek was like, I can't believe it was that immediate. I was like, I wasn't kidding. Like he just went and blew it up. And so what are you thinking during that? Well, I'm like, what, you know, I don't know at first he's bloated up, but then the second that they stopped talking, Saul comes to get me and he's like, what the fuck, man?

[00:36:49] Like I saved you and like, you didn't even tell, like he, and like part of his reaction to that is why it was like never going, I was never going to save him because I felt like that bridge was burned. Also. Okay. So save him with your idol or save him with your vote. Try and flip the, like, so Andy and I had voted with Sam, Teenie and Saul, we would have saved Saul, right? We had the numbers to do it. If we all voted together, I forgot when like Genevieve walked away and Andy and I were there, we had just talked to Saul the night before about working together.

[00:37:17] And like, uh, I was like, Andy, are we really doing this? Did we just say we were going to work together and like help each other? And he was like, I know, but like everybody knows, like everybody's in on it. Like, and I was like, okay. Okay. And so like, I knew that if Andy was not down, me flipping had no impact. So like, if he was, we had to vote together if we were going to like change it. And so Saul comes to me, he's pissed. Um, I'm like, it's everybody, Saul, like it's everybody. And he thinks he still has Genevieve. He doesn't know that she's the one orchestrating it.

[00:37:47] And so, um, he's like, vote Kyle, vote Kyle. And so like, I go into tribal being like, what the heck? And I was sitting in front of Andy. Cause this happened so last minute that like, we didn't get to actually talk about it with everybody. I talked to Andy like five times during that tribal. And I was like, we're sure about this. Right. But here's my situation. I like, if I were to convince Andy to save Saul, my new alliance is now Saul, Andy, Sam,

[00:38:16] teeny and me. And I didn't have a game relationship with teeny. I barely trusted Sam. I didn't trust Andy. Like, and the soul just blew up at me. I was like, this is not a good idea. You know, like as much as I wanted to keep Saul around because he was a shield, because I felt like I could trust him a little bit. He had just voted out. He was like, let me save you and let's work together. And then he votes out my only ally left. Like, it was just like, not, it was just not the situation that I felt I should stick my

[00:38:44] neck out for him to flip for a group that I didn't feel good about. And so it just like, that was why it happened that way. And I mean, yeah, Andy blew it up to teeny. And by the end of it, it was just a unanimous vote. So, okay. All right. So Saul goes home. And if memory serves me, I feel like that this is where we see you and Andy start to have like a rekindling in your relationship. Is this, is this the right point when you and Andy are starting to, you know, talk again and we're seeing it on the show?

[00:39:13] We're starting to talk again, you know, like having that moment of being like, we're the swing boats in the middle of this. Like it did help a little bit, like us kind of like talk about working together again. Um, but I still just like, I was always just like, so I wanted my eggs in the tuku basket. I wanted Andy like as a potential option. And then at some point he comes to me with teeny as this like final three thing.

[00:39:40] And that's when I start to be like, okay, like, I think that like, this is an avenue for me. It's not my, it's my backup Avenue because Sue Caroline me is my preferred one, but like, this is a good thing to have these options. Yeah. Okay. So you end up on a reward, uh, with Kyle and Sam to, uh, and, and this is a, you know, you have some chances to, you know, talk some strategy with Sam as you're watching as Sam

[00:40:07] and Kyle are talking about what, uh, they want to do. And you have a, and you have an opportunity to talk, talk to Sam. Sam, this was one of my like most disappointed things that didn't happen. Okay. Or didn't show. We didn't see. And it is so that like same situation with Carolyn and Brandon and Danny, where like Sam is his back is facing me at this point. He's in the middle and him and Kyle have been talking for like 10 minutes, not including me.

[00:40:33] And at one point Kyle goes, my Shania says I shouldn't trust the women out here. And I literally popped out from behind Sam's back and I just like waved at him and I could not believe that it wasn't shown. And I was just like, it was like, this is like the fruit dropping out of Carolyn's mouth. I just like, it was like, so I said it inconfessional that day. I was like, it felt very similar to like what I just watched at 44. And, um, and so as much as like Kyle was like, I want to go to the end together, Michiganders, blah, blah, blah.

[00:41:03] I was like, you literally just said you can't trust the women. And like, I don't trust Sam. So like, I don't know what to tell you. Like Sam had just blown up the salt thing. I was like, he, the Annika thing. And then blowing up the salt thing. And like, I have no interest in working with Sam ever again, you know? And another thing was because I had that permission, even though that was a slip the next morning, um, after Sam blew up the salt thing, I immediately went to sue Caroline Genevieve. And I was like, this is what happened. Cause everyone's like, how did that happen? And I was like, this is what happened.

[00:41:32] Uh, you guys told me I could tell Sam at the last second, I decided to see if I could trust him. And I told him the plan and he literally blew it up five minutes before tribal and we cannot, and they were like, screw Sam, you know? And so like, it was, I very much threw him under the bus, um, as a result of that to like clear my own name. Um, and yeah, so there was like another, just another thing where I was like, Sam and I are not working together at this point. Okay. Okay. So, uh, this vote really is going to come down to, it seems like from our perspective,

[00:42:00] uh, Gabe or Genevieve, but we see a lot of you talking about how you'd really like to get Genevieve out, not Gabe. Yeah. I mean, I was open for either truly like Genevieve felt like a more direct threat to me, but I understood why Gabe was a direct threat to everybody. Like he, he just, the way that he would turn on at tribal was, it was like a completely different person than the person we saw at camp. And it was very scary and he could make fire in a literal instant.

[00:42:28] There were moments where we came back from tribal and the fire just poofed. Like, I swear to God, he can make it in under five seconds. Like it was unbelievable. And so it was just like, we cannot let this guy who's already won an immunity. He's like, you know, we can't let him get anywhere near the end because he will be anyone in fire. He's incredibly eloquent. Like I just, you know, he was extremely intimidating and I was more scared of Gabe at that point than I was of Genevieve. It was just that like, I knew Genevieve didn't trust me and I didn't trust her.

[00:42:55] And so like, I was always just pushing the Genevieve narrative all like I, I was anti Genevieve propaganda. The entire post merge was like, do you ever notice when you talk to her, she talks like, 10% of the time, it doesn't give you anything. Like, you know, I just, I would constantly kind of just like, like say things to other people about how Genevieve was playing very like covertly when we're, you know, most of us just never shut up. Like we just can't stop talking and she just never spoke. We didn't know anything about her.

[00:43:23] Like we had this whole conspiracy theory that someone in her life close to her was like dying because she never talked about her family. Like it was like to the point where it was genuinely like a thing where I was like, this girl will not open up and not tell us about herself. Like there is like, you know, so anyway. Yeah. See, look, she's too emotionally scarred from Kishon. Yeah. I, it's so, it's so interesting to see it all and to know her now, you know, like I absolutely adore her, but it's just like, okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:43:50] So Gabe ends up going home and then, uh, oops, uh, Genevieve and Sam and Kyle are really like, uh, firmly ensconced on the bottom. Uh, so much so that you are willing to go and now risk your vote to go on a journey to the person that like helped that happen. Right. So like me having these two final three alliances, like in my mind with this idol in my pocket

[00:44:17] specifically, like, you know, there's just like, I talked about a little bit in exit press, but it's like, I played a certain way because I knew I had the idol. And so like one of those ways was being like pretty overt about like, Hey, this is the five like, we don't amount to anything. They don't respect us. They don't care about us. We haven't done anything. And then like, look at these people. And specifically I was like, Kyle with the immunities Genevieve with the Saul thing and just being Genevieve and then like Sam having Sierra and having Sierra on the mayor of Pranda

[00:44:45] Rosa and then being the only person that tried to save Saul. Like that was like, I was just like, let's like other the hell out of all of them and like make them the enemy. And if I can get to five with this group, like I am, I will do something flashy with my idol and then I will win, you know, like that was just like my best bet. Cause even anything shenanigans happened, it was like, we're going to get almost all the way there just if we can just keep this group together. So, um, yeah.

[00:45:11] Well, you did something very flashy when you went and won the advantage on the barge, which was just, uh, one of the most epic things ever on survivor. Yeah. Yeah. I, it was very crazy. Like I was fun to watch back cause I was like, it just, it's the most absurd story. It doesn't even sound believable, you know? And so, yeah, it was very fun. Like I was so happy I completed it. And, um, I was like, I remember being like, you can't screw this up cause they can't like edit around this Rachel. You just have to, you have to pull it out.

[00:45:40] And so, um, yeah, it was fun. Yeah. And I believe this is when you go on a run and where, um, instead of Gabe, uh, they probably should have voted you out because you're going to be immune from the rest of the game on. Yeah. I mean, yeah, yes. Um, that's true. I didn't expect that, but, um, but yeah, I, uh, and I, I came back again, the block of vote thing was so intentional.

[00:46:09] I came back, I told the five immediately because the, my biggest fear was like, if I don't tell them or if I lie, like they're going to believe I have something as powerful as an idol. And I do not want that. And so like, I want to distract them with this pretty useless advantage while I keep my idol like safely behind me, you know? And so, and it worked. I mean, it worked exactly, you know, like between playing my shot in the dark and then having this public advantage, like nobody thought I had an idol.

[00:46:34] And so, um, and that was also kind of what seeded the things for the Andy blind side in the sense that like, when I told Andy about the block of vote, he just came out and was like, you're my number one. And I remember being like, no, I'm not, but like, okay. And, um, and so like, I was able to use that like to guilt him later. I know I have said that in other things, so we don't have to dive too far. But, um, so Andy, uh, famously 6.25% chance that Kyle was going to win.

[00:47:02] Uh, like what were the chances Rachel was going to win the immunities the rest of the life? Um, yeah. But so did, did you push hard here for Genevieve to be the person to go home instead of Kyle? Uh, or did you get on board with Kyle? No, I got on board with Kyle because, um, Caroline was hell bent on getting out Kyle. So was Sue. And so my two closest allies were like extremely passionate. Like Caroline was like threatening jury votes, like was very passionate about getting Kyle out.

[00:47:31] And then, um, teeny also was like, I just think that we will, if, if we don't get him out now and he gets to the end, like we will look so stupid. And so like basically everyone I wanted to work with, except maybe Andy was like, we have to get Kyle now. And I was like, okay. And I was like, I kind of want to win an immunity. So like, I'm also fine with getting Kyle out. So as much as I wanted to, again, it was just kind of like, she was a shield and I was scared of her. Um, but I felt like I had the power. I had the numbers in that time. So like, I didn't need to get her out at that moment.

[00:48:00] Um, and as I did not ever want to push hard too hard and like lose grip of that five, you know? Okay. So I would love to get your perspective on the events of operation Italy from where, where you were and you know, how, how everything's unfolding from your perspective. Yeah. I mean, to me, I think one of the lapses I had as like going in is just like, I think

[00:48:26] I'm, you always want to like predict what other people's motivations will be. And I think that like, what I didn't predict was that, um, to me, Andy flipping on the only group of people, I believe he had a chance of beating at the end didn't make any sense. And I did not calculate that. Like in his mind, he didn't just want to get to the end. He wanted to make a move big enough that might get him voted out immediately. But if he got to the end, at least would give him something to talk about.

[00:48:55] And like, I just didn't calculate that. And so, um, Sue was the one that was like, Andy's going to flip. And we were teeny. How did she know? She, when they were on reward, she was just like, Andy's Andy's not reliable. Like we can't trust him and Sue or Caroline teeny. And I were like, he's fine. Like, we just like dismissed it. Like it truly. And, um, and yeah. And so, I mean, I did offer to like play the block for like, you know, for Caroline, because

[00:49:25] we knew she was going to be the target. Um, once I want immunity and, um, she was like, no, I think we're good. And like, she really wanted to like appease him. And I was on board with that in the sense that like, again, I'm, my goal is to keep this five together. I don't really care what else happens. I just want the five to stay together. And so it's like, if anyone's pushing particularly hard for anything, like I'm just going to like be fine with it because ultimately I just need this group to proceed, like get further. And, um, plus I was like, if I can idle out Genevieve at five, like that's perfect.

[00:49:54] You know, like that's my beautiful end game likes and air. Um, and I knew I could beat her at fire. So even if I couldn't get her then that I could get it. So it was just like, I didn't care. Like, and so, um, it just, yeah, that was kind of my mentality. And I think in the very deep pits of my mind, I really didn't think Andy was slipping, but I think in the deep pits of my mind, I was like, I'm safe no matter what. And who cares? You know?

[00:50:15] So we see after operation Italy, uh, we see where, okay, Caroline has gone home and that there are, they, they pull teeny aside and they're trying to explain everything. Oh, this was just an accident. This was like, Oh, because what tipped me off. I believe that when Andy blindsides us, he is blindsiding me and teeny equally because we are a three and we both were out of that boat.

[00:50:43] We get back to camp and Andy goes, teeny. Can I talk to you? And I was like, can I come? And he said, no, I just want to talk to teeny. And I was like, what does he have to say to teeny that he doesn't have to say to me? And that is what made me, I actually followed them behind the shelter, squatted there in the dark, listening to them for a couple of minutes. And then was like, actually, I think the important conversation is going to be when this group gets together later. And I went back to camp because I didn't want to get caught. And I waited for them to go down to the beach. And that's when I followed them.

[00:51:13] So like, yeah, it was Andy's like that moment with Andy that made me say like, something's going on that I don't know about because he should have the same story for both of us. You know? I had wondered, Rachel, had you ever done something like that at any other point in the game? Spied? Yes. Um, no, but I think it had occurred to me. I think it had occurred to me before. And that's why in that moment I was like, I have nothing to lose at this point.

[00:51:38] You know, like, um, I believed that it was like teeny Sue and I at the bottom or like, it's now three, three. And I have to like, kind of understand what they want to do. And so, um, yeah, that was just, I was just desperate enough at that point that I was willing to take the risk, I guess. How did you decide to tell Sue about your idol? Um, I was not going to tell her until I was going to play it. I knew that they had the votes to like, um, with four, they had the votes to split two, two. And I couldn't have that.

[00:52:08] And so like, I needed, I mean, I was blocking Sam's vote, so they didn't. But my fear was like, okay, yeah, yeah. If they do two one and then, um, I don't include Sue, then like now they get to choose who goes home if there's a tie. Right. And so I just was like, I need two votes. And so, um, I was always going to tell her cause I knew I could trust her, but like, I was going to tell her further. It was her, the Navy, the day before like Operation Italy, we spent that whole afternoon trying to find an idol.

[00:52:35] And so when, and Sue was like, that's when she, that stuff of her under the rock face and shit. And she was like, I put my hand in every single hole in there. I was like, oh my gosh, she's going to kill me when she finds out I have this freaking idol. And then like, I get back and she, so like that morning I get up and she is like, you saw like frantically. And I was just like, I cannot, she's going to kill me if I let her do this. You know, like she will not trust me if I continue to let this go on. And that is why I told her at that moment. So Rachel, in the episode, we see where, okay, you talk to Andy, say, Hey, vote with me.

[00:53:05] Let's, let's take out Sam. He thinks about, he says, you know what, actually, no, I don't think I'm going to do that. I think that it's going to be you tonight. And we see that where Andy tells you about his game. And ultimately we see Andy get voted out that night. In my interview with Sue, Sue said that she played a very big role in this vote because she could not forgive Andy for voting out sweet Caroline.

[00:53:32] And she really was the person who said, no, Rachel, we have to vote out Andy tonight. How big of a factor was Sue in Andy going home? Sue was the tipping point. Okay. This is what happened. Sue and I, the night before and the morning of are like, Sam's going home. Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam. Sue goes on reward, which I'd have even teeny. And that's when all this stuff happens at camp where Andy's like, you know, like, and overplaying his hand and jury managing me.

[00:53:59] And I'm like, you know, it had never occurred to me that you blindsided me. Like you lied to me three times. Cause I'm giving Sam credit for Annika. I'm giving the seven other people that voted out Sierra's credit for Sierra. And yes, he was the swing and operationally. I was giving him credit for that. But even in that, I'm still like, how the hell did Genevieve convince you to flip and not vote her out? Like, I am not giving Andy the credit that, you know, he believes he deserves for these things in that moment.

[00:54:28] And so like, all of a sudden I'm like, I wonder how that would go at final tribal. And I'm like, my calculus was Sam predictable. I know what he's going to say at final tribal Andy unpredictable. I have no idea what he's going to say at final tribal. I'm like genuinely believed I could be both of them did not have the strongest. I felt like I needed to get Sam because I had been like, like as he was to me saying he was a threat for a long time.

[00:54:57] And at some point I felt like I had eclipsed him and I was not worried about him beating me, but like, I was worried about the narrative of me, like saying Sam's a threat, Sam's a threat. And then like sitting with him at the end. And that was why I was gunning for Sam at that moment when I couldn't get Genevieve. But once I couldn't get Genevieve, that was why I played the idol so ridiculously because I was just like, I can't get the person I actually need out anyway. And so I'm like, Andy, this conversation, Andy, really weird. Very interesting. Huh? Sue comes back from the reward and is like, I told them I'm voting for Andy.

[00:55:26] I was like, why did you do that? We talked about Sam like the last like 24 hours. And so, but I was like, okay, actually like, let's just vote out Andy. Cause it'll make you happy. And I am worried about him because he is a wild card. And so like, she was definitely the person that like solidified the direction we were going. It worked for both of you. It worked for both of us. Yeah. Okay. So Rachel, so much of the very late stages of the game, we got to talk about when you did your exit interview and I'm trying to be mindful of the time.

[00:55:55] So I really would just love to use the rest of our time together to find out from you. What, what else about your game do you want people to know? You know, I think like as a big fan listening to hundreds, thousands of hours of podcasts, like, it's just not like everything goes out the window. Like in my notebook in pregame, it said in a split, don't like, like if Sue Caroline

[00:56:23] and I had been on the majority of split at operation Italy, this would have never happened. And it's like, you know, to not put people you don't fully trust on the majority split. But, and yet situations like you just can't, you have to play the thing that's in front of you. And like those rules and those like things that you believe to be like biblical are just thrown out the window when you actually go out to play survivor. And I think that's like hard to understand until you do it, but it just, it really like,

[00:56:49] there's just so many things that I'm like, that was not in the rule book, but I had all the reasons to like, to believe that that was the case. And sometimes that does work, right? Like you, you shouldn't follow the like set things you think are like the things you should do. But like, yeah, I think that that's a big thing. I think the other thing is just like, I never thought I would play this game. I could have written 20 ways that I thought my game would go. And this would have not been anywhere near the list.

[00:57:17] And so it's just like, you know, the whole Ben Mike thing that wasn't about disrespect. It was about intention. It was about like the fact that like, I didn't come into the game being like, I'm going to play this way. I'm going to be immune from final eight. I'm going to, you know, like that was not like, they were asking me to reconcile my intentions with like what I actually did. And so like, I think that the game that at some point I was like, this is my only path.

[00:57:43] Like, I don't have another option and I shouldn't be penalized for taking the path that I had left, you know? And I think that that's, you know, like rankings are arbitrary and reductive, but like, it just like, it's not. Yeah. Well, especially when the path you had to go was harder than the path you probably intended to go. I feel like less respected in this super fan world that we live in. Like, I get it. Like, I get it. But it's just sometimes you don't have a choice.

[00:58:10] Sam and Andy were talking about how I would be a long-term threat in the pre-merge. There is nothing I could have done about that. Like there is just, you can't control everything. You think you like say the right thing and you act the right way and you control everything. It's just not true. Everybody is there to play. Everybody is there. Sam was doing the same thing to me. I was just more successful at it. You know, like we were both just trying to use each other as shields. And like, at the end of the day, I won out. But like, his strategy is not a bad one, you know? So it's just like, you can't, it's not as black and white as we like to think when we

[00:58:39] like, you know, digest all of this, you know, my Survivor Academy history and everything else. Like it's, I have like notes and notes, pages and pages, pages of notes I've taken over the years over like what I should and shouldn't do on Survivor. And it's just like, when you start and you hit the beach, like it just goes out the window. Like you just can't. And so you have to just look at the situation and you can't get blinded by like what you think, you know, you just have to like do. Yeah. Such a great observation. All your knowledge just goes out the window. And is it just gut?

[00:59:09] Is that, is it just like innate? It's like terrible at just like figuring out when people were lying to me, you know? But like, I think it's more like, it's like a murder mystery. Like you're like, what stories add up? What makes sense? What doesn't? Did someone slip because they like are tired and exhausted or do they slip because that's actually the truth? And like, I think that like doing your due diligence and like cross-checking everything is like truly the best way because it's just, um, like I had no, like people don't act rationally,

[00:59:36] like teeny flipping after operation Italy should have never happened. Like Genevieve burned them like three fricking times. Like you would never think teeny said after the second time, shame, burn me one, shame on you, burn me twice or whatever. Like was like, I will never go back. Like screw Genevieve. And then like, like goes back to vote with Genevieve. Like, it's just, you can't, and I would have never known that if I didn't spy, which was like, you know, like, so it's just, it's just so hard. It's ever so hard. That's the takeaway. It's so hard.

[01:00:04] It is, but you made it look so easy, Rachel. And, uh, what a great job you did. You adapted. I loved the description, uh, uh, that was, did you say this in the final travel council about, uh, you had a stealthiness to your game? Yeah, I think that like, and I like, I think what I felt like I did the best was like maximize every opportunity I got, you know, like it's, I'm like a deals, deals, deals kind of girl. And so like, I'm always looking for like the, the biggest like squeeze.

[01:00:33] And like, I felt like that's what I did. Any, any opportunity I saw in the game, I just tried to like squeeze every potential out of it that I could and think about it in every way I could. I have like a spreadsheet of like advantages in the game and like ways they can be used, not the way that they're intended to be. And I think that those are the things like, that's why I played my shot in the dark the way I did. That's why, you know, like I, I just was trying to leverage whatever I had, the tools that I had to like play the best I could. Okay. Anything else you want people to know? Yeah. One really dumb, quick thing.

[01:01:03] Okay. When I first became a patron in 2019, you had a special that you got a pop socket and a signed headshot of you. And you were allowed to like fill out what you wanted you to say. And I said, like, my name is Rachel and I can't wait to meet you someday when I win Survivor. And you had, you signed Rachel. Can't wait to interview you on the red carpet after you get the check at the finale or something. We were so close to that.

[01:01:32] We were so close to that being the case. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Look, look at you. Look at me. You manifested it. I'm a patron super fan too. Although I will say the club condo, I will never win Twitch. So I appreciate, I appreciate this. All right. We'll see. We'll see. Maybe I'm just getting slow played here. But anyway, Rachel, congratulations again to you.

[01:01:59] Can't wait to talk much more with you about Survivor in the future. I can't wait. Where can people keep up with you? I'm on Instagram, Rachel A. Lamont. I'm also on other things, but like, I don't know. I don't, I didn't do social media for like two years before I went on Survivor. So I'm just, I'm just trying to manage technically on Twitter and Blue Sky, but really only active on Instagram. All right. And then of course, we love to hear your comments. Make sure you're subscribed. Thank you for listening, everybody. Take care of a good one. Bye.