Maryanne Oketch on Survivor 50’s Winning Game

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob's the video. I'm back home after a busy week and stretch of travel, but there was one podcast that I really wanted to do after the Survivor 50 finale, and I saw this person in California. I said, hey, will you, when you get back home after going to Disneyland, will you talk to me about this Survivor finale and season? And she said, yes, yes, of course I will.

[00:00:26] And here she is, the great winner of Survivor 42. It's Maryanne Oketch. Maryanne, how are you? Oh my goodness. I'm doing so great. Actually, no, that's a lie. I'm doing miserable. LA was beautiful. The weather was amazing. Then I come back to like weather, which is 12 degrees when it was 23, I think in freedom units, that's like, it was like 76. And now it's like, I don't know,

[00:00:51] probably like 61 degrees. And it's, it's, and I just want to go back to the warmth, but everything else going fine. Great finale. They should do them more often. It was wonderful, at least in my perspective. Good. I want to get your accounts of everything. You know, my, my trip to LA, it was a lot of people coming up to me like, Hey Rob, do you know that, that one of your former podcast co-hosts is running for mayor here? I said, yeah, I did know that. I did know that,

[00:01:18] but we're not here to talk about that right now. Anyway. So Maryanne, it was so nice to see you in LA and I thought that you were such a perfect person to talk about. I've been talking about how I really felt like that Aubrey was on a Maryanne-esque trajectory that I felt like that you really defined the new era win in your season. You were also the person who really came up with the

[00:01:44] theory of you want to be around sixth going into the final eight, which really, I think once again, became a truism as Aubrey ends up going from around there to the win. Also you played with Jonathan and I feel like who better to talk to about how this final tribal council played out than you. I know Jonathan finally went, he found, it feels like he went and he beat his demons in fire.

[00:02:14] And then unfortunately he found some new ones. It was the monkey's paw. Yeah. Monkeys. But what really was so many monkeys paw where I've been saying that it was almost like that Aubrey had wished, I want to be Michelle. And then she ends up having a win where people are like, but did she do anything? Um, and then ultimately like ends up having like a Michelle-esque win here, but I think that she

[00:02:39] will gladly take it and the $2 million. But, uh, before we get into all of the business, uh, you're doing good. Everything's good. Oh yeah. I'm doing great. You know, like I'm now back to reality having actually to wrap up med school. I finished next week. So just a couple, a hundred percent exams to do. And then now I'm actually free for the summer. What do you mean? A hundred percent exam. I mean like nothing that I have done from, so the course started in February and nothing that I have

[00:03:07] done actually matters for my grade, except for this one exam where I must get 70%. And if I do not, I fail the whole course. Wow. Okay. All right. No pressure. None at all. None. All right. Cool. Cool. Collected. Yeah. So Marianne, I would love to just start off with my thesis that the, the Aubrey win was very reminiscent of your win in survivor 42. Is that how you saw it also?

[00:03:35] I saw that a little bit. I was like, Oh, are my nachos being reheated? And then I was like, wait, can I even say that? Is that allowed? Because I really saw it in the way where Aubrey, she was someone where people didn't see, she had her plan and her win equity of like, Oh, this is what I need to do to go to the end. This is the moves that I need to do. But she wasn't domineering those moves, but what she wanted, she got. And I think we really clearly

[00:04:01] saw that, especially in that Aussie vote out where a lot of people were thinking, let's get Aussie out. And she was a piece in that Aussie plan. And even some would say a vital piece and going and changing Joe, like Joe's opinion, but like, she wasn't the one where she can be definitive. She's definitively the person where it's like, this is the person who we need to get out. This is the person making the moves, which I think is a beautiful place to be in, especially in survivor.

[00:04:28] And then it's been, and then she keeps on moving. She goes, wins the final four. She knows exactly who she wants to get out to go and have the best story in final tribal. Cause she understands if I have the best story at final tribal, that is how I win, which is true. Goes, takes out Rizzo by proxy of Jonathan. And then after is able to go to final tribal with a very unique story, with a very unique like way of like, this is how I was moving. This is where I was. These are the struggles that I went

[00:04:56] to. These are the things that I did is able to go and, and stand up. Like, especially when Jonathan was like, this Aussie vote out was mine. I flashback to when it was Jonathan being like, you know, this Omar vote out was mine able to go and have her reasoning, had Joe go and defend to the reasoning and then go and take the win in the end. Yeah. I think that it was, uh, really so similar to

[00:05:20] what you had in survivor 42. And I feel like that that was really, you know, as we look back, cause maybe the new era is over, uh, I'm starting to feel like that, like that, this is like the, the path of the new era winner. I know. I feel like it's now come to the point where it's interesting. Cause you have this meta of what, how to win. And then you have people where

[00:05:46] it'll still not sometimes happen, but then it's like, like, for example, D dog walked her way to the end or another one, Rachel underdog challenged beast her way to the end. And then, and then, especially in that moment where they killed Caroline, who I feel in 47 was kind of along that same trajectory of my win. And now it's like, are people going to be aware of the people who are in that sixth spot in the final eight being like, Oh, you see where threat? There's this big

[00:06:12] threat. But if we don't snipe these hyenas at this moment, they're now going to go and just kill us all in the end. It's a really interesting concept to think about. And it's really interesting, especially in a newbie season when people aren't super aware of who's the hyena and who's the lion. Cause you're just seeing the people for the first time and only seeing what people are telling you. Can I have you rehash your theory of wanting to be sixth at the final eighth?

[00:06:39] Yes, of course. Yeah. So basically what I realized when I was doing my research on how to win survivor, when I was getting ready is that in my mind, nothing mattered until the final eight you, because the game is so open, you can still manage to squeak out a win most of the time by that final eight. And then I also realized, so that's checkpoint number one,

[00:07:03] checkpoint number two is okay. And final six is also very important because that's the last time where you can really set up your best win conditions. You have the most wiggle room to do. So you have these points, final eight and final six, and you really want to go and get yourself to the checkpoint of six. So in six, the dream goal of, of where my dream makeup was, was that you want to have two people who you feel are threats because then it's like, okay,

[00:07:32] at least I have two people that people are trying to get, and they have three vote outs to get them. You want to have one person who's your ally, because then if they're able, sorry, three people who can beat you. Cause then it's the six, five, four, it's three, two, one, two people who you think you can beat because then it's like, okay, I have a possible final three. And then one person who is your ally, cause then you then have wiggle room thing, people to make your move. That was kind of my setup, which means that at final eight, you want to make sure that you are

[00:08:00] going and eliminating anyone that does not work with that three to one ratio of three threats, two people you think you can be, and one ally who's going to help you make those moves. So then the final eight in that position, if you're already too high in the chopping block, then if you're not, if you're at, if you're at like that three or four, then that means that when you're voting these people out, you will just be next at six. You'll be the one to go when rather, if you're in that six position and you just keep on chopping the heads off of every single threat,

[00:08:27] by the time you get to six, you probably still have that layout where there's people who's have eyes on other people. So you can still have that maneuvering, but you still have that amount of people where you can really still do and make like a move, do like some sort of four, two move with me, my extra vote. It was a three, two, two move, but you can make something work out. So not three. Yeah. I'm from our first year. Yeah. It was three, two, two. Yeah. So the part that is really surprising to me is that I kind of thought that this was something that you

[00:08:56] had really started to see after a couple of seasons into the new era. But it's surprising to me that you came up with this prior to even playing in the new era and you had not seen Survivor 41. No, I hadn't seen 41. I really, I really came from this. I had to use my big brain when I was under quarantine because in my season, they quarantined us. And I remember really just writing down every,

[00:09:24] the boot order of, I think every season that was 30, no, 30, 37 onwards. I wrote the boot order and I was trying to see, okay, what went wrong for this person? What went right for this person? What's the characteristics of this person's game that's here? And that was really the pattern that I saw where it's like, okay, you know, final eight, you still have a lot of wiggle room. Final six is really when you're locking in what you have to do. And so my mindset was really, I'm just going to go, tell me who to write for. I'm going to write for who's there.

[00:09:52] And then until final eight where I'm like, okay, the people who I need to go really need to go. And it just so worked out for me that the people who I was aligned with were the people like who I, I was aligned in getting out were also the people that everyone else wanted to get out. So it worked very well for me. And that's similar to Audrey where it's like, she's like, I want Aussie. Everyone's like, I want Aussie too. It's like, oh, Christian needs to go. Okay, great. Christian's going off in this moment. Devins needs to go. Well, bye-bye Devins. Yeah. It really, in the way that the season

[00:10:21] ended up unfolding, it seemed like that there was like a real calling of the threats at a certain point where, you know, after, you know, you had where, you know, Christian was talked about and then, then, you know, people were looking at Rick Devins, but they ultimately, they got Stephanie. But then after that, you had the double tribal council where you had both,

[00:10:46] you know, Emily went, but also Aussie and then Rick Devins and Sari all back to back to back. So there really was a point where it's like, okay, well, we can't let these people get any further. It seemed like that there was like a consensus of like, okay, these are the threats. And then, and then Tiffany really was then the next biggest threat. Exactly. It really felt as if people were aware, especially like Joe, Aubrey, Rizzo, were, um, Jonathan were very aware of who they needed to get out. And even in the final four,

[00:11:16] they were aware that they need to get Aubrey out. They just couldn't because Aubrey bought some motion, practice the motion. And that was so good. I was like five, five balls, you know, as someone who historically only managed to make it to two, I'm looking, I'm like, she did literally 2.5 times more than me. I'm really curious to know. And I had started to ask Aubrey about this in my conversation with her about the some motion that she had. And then I asked her, what other prep did you do? But I'm

[00:11:45] really curious to know, like, was it a full size motion that she bought? Or is it like a, like a mini motion that you can buy on Etsy? I think it must've been a mini motion. Like I'm looking, like, I'm just thinking about the people who go and create puzzles on Etsy. And I don't, and I only think that the large full size ones are either like exorbitantly expensive where we're talking at least like, I know the big size puzzles can be like hundreds of dollars. And so motion is very mechanical. So I think it must've been like a

[00:12:14] small size one. And then she's like, and then she just practiced with like what I had, which I actually feel might be harder. Cause you're, you're going smaller margins, you're moving back and forth and it clearly worked though. Yeah. I mean, it was wild. Uh, I mean, I can't believe she didn't post any sort of videos of like, here's me practicing, uh, some motion in my backyard. And ultimately, cause Jonathan did post some videos about here's all the, the, the prep that I did, but apparently not a some motion game.

[00:12:44] Yes. No, but Jonathan, he must've prepped cause he won a puzzle. Yeah. Like he, like he won the final five puzzle and mind you, like some people might be like, Oh, but you know, he had a big lead and he almost blew the lead to Tiffany. He could not do a puzzle. And for like in 42, Jonathan could not do a puzzle whatsoever. And like for him to go from like, not being a, being puzzle illiterate to winning a puzzle with also the thing of his strength people were building. I want to see the picture of Jonathan

[00:13:13] doing a puzzle. I want to see him building that puzzle. I want to see Aubrey doing some motion. I did see a video of Jonathan, like doing like walking across balance beams and putting puzzles together. He did make like a super cut of all the prep that he did, but I'd love to get your take on, you know, Jonathan in the aftermath of survivor 50. I think he really seems to be at,

[00:13:37] at a loss and trying to like put it together of, I don't understand what, but why did I lose? I went back. I improved on my game. I played even more strategically than I did, but he just seems to not be able to process of, but I did everything that I could do to prep for this. Why didn't I win?

[00:14:01] And I'd love to get your thoughts on, you know, Jonathan's growth and where Jonathan might go from here. Yeah, I really do agree with Jonathan that he has improved in every single aspect of his game. I feel as if he was able to go and make those strategic moves. He was able to go finish that puzzle. Like I remember there was even a scene in the, in the season where he goes and he says, I think we should do this. Then he thinks you can see him thinking, but, but, but what do you think?

[00:14:31] Like, I do think that he has improved in every single facet of the game, but I also think that this game that he played, especially as someone who, yeah, he was strategic, but he was left out of a couple of votes or like, yes, he was there. But like a lot of times he, it was like in the merge, we were seen as these two sides of the, like the honor and integrity alliance. And then like, after like the, the middle alliance, which was not in the line, it was a side. And then you have

[00:14:56] like the Syrian Aussie of it all. I really feel as if he was very good at creating those bonds with his people, as we could see with the votes. But then after going and having that all the tree branch to the people who he wasn't working with, maybe that was a piece of the puzzle that still needed work. And that's why he wasn't able to go and see those votes converted, like see those moves that he made converted into votes. I also think as well too, where it's like, yes, I would say that

[00:15:23] the, the game that he played was worth and garnered of votes, but then also Aubrey's like the, the game that Aubrey played also was worth of votes. I was always, you know, I was always the alternative vote, but I'm the one who managed to go and flip it around and make things work. Yes. Jonathan, you said you did the Aussie vote. I'm not saying that you didn't have a plan of this, but look at how I moved the pieces. And then also getting your close ally to admit to everyone

[00:15:49] on the jury that yes, I was a like integral part of having this move. And so also Aubrey having also another winning story, another way to go and having that immunity when, when she needed to have that was just like another path where it's like, that is also very clearly and evidently a winning game. And that is the game there. Aubrey pitched better and people resonated and felt more with Aubrey's game. And then instead gave her the votes, which is completely fair because you know,

[00:16:16] the person who's supposed to win is the person who's supposed to win. And that doesn't mitigate that Jonathan's game was better because like some people might think, Oh, because Aubrey won, Jonathan's game was not improved and was not better. It's like, no, it was, it was a very improved game. And I saw the difference, especially since I played with him with 25 days, I saw the differences and I know that it's hard, but I think he should really be proud of himself, really be proud about how he's moved and like really take that time to be like, you know what?

[00:16:41] Sometimes you do everything and it's not able to work and that sucks, but life moves on and it's okay. It's really hard to quantify because I think that Jonathan, I think that he does seem to have like a, like a very like logical brain in that, you know, I think that he went back and looked at his game from survivor 42 and he said, okay, every single tangible part of the game, I am going to

[00:17:09] improve on and I'm going to dedicate myself to improving in every single quantifiable way that there is to improve on survivor. But I think that ultimately he loses the game to Aubrey on the intangible things. And I think that that's the, that's what I think is the thing that is like the

[00:17:32] thing about survivor that's hard to quantify about, you can't really explain it, but you sort of like, no, it's like, wait, how did, how did Gabler win? It's like the, the, the, like the intangibles of like the, the way that like a person makes you feel, I think can be the biggest factor for some

[00:17:57] of these jury votes. Yep. And Jonathan is someone where he has a personality that some people might rub against with, you know, where for me, especially like the way that some people might feel like he, like he treats them or some people might feel like the way that he goes and navigates as well too. And it's, but for me, like I was finding Jonathan, clearly I worked with him. I did moves with him, but other people in my season were not. And that's also completely fair and valid and their

[00:18:22] experiences are fair. So maybe the way that that intangible was where the people, how they felt in 50, maybe they didn't feel the same way that they felt with Aubrey, especially because Aubrey said that she was very intentional in trying to make those bonds with every single person because she knew that was something that was lacking. And I think it also goes where it's like, yes, Jonathan's game improved, but clearly Aubrey's game improved as well too. And that social part, because some people would say

[00:18:48] that that social aspect, that intangible reason is why she didn't win 32. And clearly some people were now turning around at 50. That's now one of the reasons why she won 50. Yeah. I think that Aubrey, like in her younger days, when we go back to Aubrey losing in Survivor Co. Wrong, I wonder if maybe that, and I don't want to put any words in anybody's mouth, but the comparison

[00:19:14] between Aubrey and Michelle was that, wow, Michelle is really authentic and Aubrey is strategic and maybe the relationships that people had, and that's a weird jury also with Kyle and Scott. And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's a little bit of a weird season. Debbie is on that jury. Um, did people feel like that?

[00:19:36] Okay. Well, Michelle is authentically Michelle versus Aubrey, who is, you know, kind of strategic. I'm not sure if I really know if this is real. I think that over the evolution of Aubrey over 10 years that I think that she has had like a, like a bit of a Sandra ification of that, you know, Aubrey is not going to pretend to like you. We saw this with Genevieve, right? That there was,

[00:20:06] this relationship where Aubrey's like, Hey, if I'm not feeling it with you, I'm not going to fake it. And I do feel like that by the end of the season, the people that were around her the most really came to value that authenticity of Aubrey. Yeah. I would agree with that. I really, especially when looking at the scene of Sari and Aubrey going and talking to each other in the final six and they're like,

[00:20:33] yeah. And I'll be like, yeah, girl, you know, I love you, but sorry. And then in the other way, Sari was like, oh, going and, and, you know, I'm going to try to get you. And then of course it was Sari who went home and Sari historically does not vote for people who voted for, for who voted her out. But look, when we see who Sari voted for, like she was one of biggest, Aubrey's biggest pro for Aubrey's. And, you know, while she actually didn't kind of have a choice with that final three of voting for someone who didn't vote her out, but it still is good to

[00:21:02] say that the person who had said when in that 11th hour, when you really feel this person is the one who got me out, I'm willing to vote for them. Or that you had Tiffany who was rallying for Aubrey and to go to be the one to win. And then, and even Tiffany, like that you see, they had a relationship in the beginning and then it kind of disappeared, but then it came back. And then, and then in the end, it still left a good taste in Tiffany's mouth that she'd want to keep Aubrey.

[00:21:26] I was thinking about this after the season is over now of that. I think that the thing that if we look back and these are sort of like, as Aubrey quoted war dog, like the theme's not on trial, you three are, and the power broker twist at the time that it was, I really do think that that changes everything. If that ultimately does not happen at that particular moment in time,

[00:21:55] more so, I don't think that Ozzy gets voted out in that particular spot. Have you thought about this at all of what if, what if they didn't do that twist at that particular point in time? Cause I'll tell you my, my thinking on it. I think that Emily still goes home. So that, that this is the first vote would be the final nine. I think Emily still goes home.

[00:22:20] Rick still plays his, still plays his idol. And does, does Ozzy, does Ozzy play his idol there? Or do they, or do they wait then? Then the next vote, I think they get Rick Devens, but Ozzy is now without an idol. So you get, you get through nine and eight. And instead of Ozzy going home, Rick Devens goes home one, one round earlier. So now Ozzy is in the game at the final seven. And

[00:22:47] please pray to God that I'm getting my math right on all of this. But so at the final seven, instead of Ozzy being gone and Rick Devens getting voted out now, you still have Sari, Rick, I'm sorry, uh, Sari, Ozzy, Tiffany, uh, that, that three and, uh, Rizzo is still there unless Rizzo, Jonathan, Joe and Aubrey, ultimately the real final four band together to go against.

[00:23:14] I don't think that they're, that they're those four are joining together to vote against Sari and Ozzy and Tiffany in that spot. I could, I could be wrong, but I feel like that it's a much different end game. And I think Aubrey ends up going out at the final seven. Yeah, I agree with you, especially because I, from what I've understood, and I wasn't able to talk to Rizzo, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But one of the big reasons that Rizzo was like, oh, I'm ready to flip on Ozzy was because Ozzy was just airing out all the dirty laundry

[00:23:43] in that, in that power broker advantage split vote. So it's like in this world, we have Ozzy not giving his whole game to Aubrey. We don't have this split tribal. And then we also have Sari who people told Sari were going for Ozzy. So that actually the only thing which I think might be different is Ozzy might not play his idol if Sari is not telling him to play his idol. So he might

[00:24:09] still have that idol unless there's trying to get them because that was what final seven, final eight. If he doesn't feel the need to play the idol on final eight, if Sari doesn't feel like the votes are on him, he would still have his idol, which gives them a little bit more power. Yeah. I think that, I don't think the idol is going to make it all the way to four, like with Rizzo. I think that for sure by six, it's going to be out, but I really do think that without the power broker advantage or even, or even with the power broker advantage, but you swap the people a little bit.

[00:24:37] So Ozzy is with Sari and Ozzy does play that idol. It's a whole different game because it's now, then you have Sari, you have Ozzy, you have Tiffany, and then maybe Sari's like, you know, and maybe if Rick does play the idol, he's like, you know what, Rick, we'll work with you one more vote just to go and cut down the numbers on the other side to go cut the Arbery to go, you know, Joe and Jonathan are winning so many challenges and Tiffany's on our side. So I don't care about her. So let's just like, in the, in the sense where it's like, she's not a threat to me because she's

[00:25:05] my ally. And then it's like, let's go for one of the people who don't have a M&D. Let's open up this game. So I really do think that was like a pivotal moment in the game. And I do think that it looks better for that other side. Yeah. And at that Ozzy vote, then I really do think a lot of things came together where Jonathan and Joe and Rizzo and ultimately Aubrey, like they, they really kind of bonded over that one day where they voted out Ozzy and made that big move together. And I

[00:25:33] think that that really carries them much more towards the end game of the season. Now, Marianne, we got a little bit of a sneak peek into survivor 51 and the open era. What does the open era mean to

[00:25:53] you? I think that the open era for me means exactly what the new era means where it's just another season of survivor with advantages that might be new, that might be old. And then players who go and want to play the game. Like, I just think it's just branding. Like, I don't like it's because it's like, we can't

[00:26:18] do 20 seasons of new era, especially. It's not new anymore. I guess it's not new anymore. It's now a gently used era. So now it's like, we have to go in, I guess, because they called it the new era. They're like, I guess we have to call it something else. And they went with the open era. And I don't think it's going to be like, just like how, I think we learned with the hourglass twist. We're not going to see something crazy, like an hourglass twist. So I think that we're just going to see more seasons of

[00:26:45] survivor the way that we've seen it. And I think that especially because they were emphasizing all twists are coming back. I think we'll see a twist that we haven't seen since like the early first 20 seasons come back early in the beginning. And then by season 55 will be business as usual. It's so weird that we're like wrapping all of these like twists up and repackaging them. And I don't

[00:27:12] really understand why, you know, I guess we had voted on like what, what some percentage of the fans seem to vote for dynamic twist was what they wanted. And I don't know if that's the focus group, but I feel like that there's really like two categories of survivor fans. And I really feel like that I have talked to so many people, obviously in the podcast, I talked to so many of the real

[00:27:37] super fans who are, are so, so much invested in, you know, going back, watching the old seasons and, and, and all of the content. But I also talked to, you know, a lot of people who are out there. And I guess they're, they're not so casual in that they are, you know, not engaging with me. Somehow they found some way to be involved in, but I've, you know, gone and spoken to so many people

[00:28:02] or even in like, I tell people what I do and they sort of know about survivor. And, and those people also seem to say, I don't like what they're doing. You know, that there's like the people that are sort of like the throwback to make it more about the, the fishing, like those people don't really like the twists and, and the people who are sort of the super fans don't really like the twist. So I just don't really understand like what's driving all of the, like the twistification

[00:28:32] of survivor. Like it seems like that people on both sides of the spectrum don't seem to want this. Yeah. Who's this for? That's a really good, go ahead. I don't know. I can't figure it out. It's, it's so interesting to me, especially because I am someone where my first season was David versus Goliath. My second season was Edge of Extinction and I also watched Big Brother.

[00:29:03] So for me, and I'll, I'll give the story, then I'll give my answer. So for me, when Edge of Extinction came retroactively, I found out that people were very upset about the twist of Edge, but for me with Big Brother, with Battle Backs being something I'm like, okay, whatever, this is normal. This is a regular Tuesday. Someone gets to come back, whatever. And oh, good job to Chris Underwood. I guess he won. I really wanted Rick Devins to win. Right. So that like, that's like,

[00:29:28] at least what my mind was thinking during me watching that season. So I think that especially for these twists, it's like you, I think it's really coming where players are savvy and people, and they're trying to cater to a new audience, but then also they're trying to make sure that players can't come with a game plan that has worked for 15, 20 seasons and then just go ahead

[00:29:57] with it. Like look at Big Brother, look at what happened when Derek played season 16 and just played such a wonderful game that inherently broke the game of Big Brother because people noticed, wait, I just need to find eight people and then I need to find five people and then I need to find three people and then we just make it to the end. And then that's all we have to do versus where it's like in Survivor, if you go and look at, look at when you played Rob, no idols, no whatever you,

[00:30:26] like some people would say you went flip with it with the flip flop strategy. And, but before that, people were just like, here's my four. Yeah. One of the best challenges call it a day. Well, Marianne that if I may Emily Flippen style, push back on what you're like, I think you're, you're doing the Jeff thing you're doing, you're like, you're, you're making a straw man argument that nobody is making because that Jeff will say, you know, some people would say we should go back

[00:30:52] and not have any idols. Like, no, we didn't say that. I didn't say that. But why are we going so far down the rabbit? Like, uh, what, what if we just had like, sort of like, I think a normal established sort of the game where there's idols, there could be a, there could be a swap, you know, maybe somebody gets an extra vote at some point in the, in the game. Uh, I think that that's fine. Like, but why are we sort of like going to like, uh, like add twist on twist on twist

[00:31:18] to get to this point? I just, I don't know. Like the, the man I sat next to on the plane the other day was talking to me and he happened to be a survivor fan. He's watching from the beginning and he's like, they ruined the show. Uh, that, that there's two, there's too much. And he was like, just like, like, I'm like, yeah, if they don't even have this guy, like, what are they doing this stuff for? Like, uh, cause I know the people that are like this, like the super fans

[00:31:42] are not necessarily happy with what they're doing. And then also the people who are sort of just like, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm a very casual person and I don't like what they're doing. Yeah. And I want you to know, this isn't me saying pro this is me explaining the reason what's in the mind. But then I asked the question. Yeah. And here's, and here's, I got another thing. I'm going to go bring it back to med school. Okay. And this is going to make, I promise, stay with me here. Stay with me here. Cause we were talking in our germ block. So when we were

[00:32:11] learning about dermatology, we were talking about aesthetic dermatology and that we were talking about something called frame shift drift. So what happens is you have someone who's like, oh, I want to get work done. I want fillers. They go and they get the fillers done, whatever they're doing great. They love what they look like, but now their face that they have is now their new original baseline face. So they go back to the dermatologist or whoever. And they're like, you know what? I like my face now, but I want to, I want this done. So they get some more work done.

[00:32:41] And now that face is now their original face. That's now their main face, not the, not the one, two, three versions. So then you go and you look at someone and especially you see people who are like, I've never done work in my life. And we're like, I don't think we can believe what you're saying, but that's because they're looking at the previous face. They're not looking at the original face. And I think that's might not might be what's happening with these twists where you're looking and the people going and making the twist are like, well, look, we like, we just went

[00:33:08] from, we had idols, but we're not just changing that. We're just changing the idols a little bit, or we're just adding this one new twist. We're not looking at the original, you know, take it back, like, take it back. Just a couple of idols, maybe a tribe swap, maybe no tribe swap. They're now looking at it being like, Hey, 42, we had an hourglass and we had a do or die. And we had, and we had this, and then we, we had the journeys. Look at what we're doing now. Not so different because that's now the new baseline. That's what we're looking at and looking back.

[00:33:36] And when you look at 42 and you look at 47 and the twists that are there, not so different. When you go and you look at 47 and you're looking at maybe let's say season 33, whoa, two separate faces. And I think that's what's happening. That, that, um, frame shift drift is what's happening in Survivor today. Yeah. We have a, like a twist dysmorphia that's happening where it's like, this isn't even that twisty. It's like, wait, what are you talking about? This is like real,

[00:34:02] so, so twisty. I really liked the, the frame shift drift of Survivor. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what it's called. My friends will let me know if I got it wrong. Okay. Let me share with you my thought on the open era and where I think that they're, where they're trying to go, what they're trying to do. Um, I think that, you know, we saw Rick

[00:34:27] Devins so celebrated during season 50 and Rick Devins that he plays the game much like yourself. There's so much joy with Rick Devins and Rick Devins says, YOLO. I'm going to flip the coin. I'm going to, I'm going to do all sorts of chaotic things that are just fun for me, but they're also fun for you at home. And I think that the idea of the open era is that, Hey,

[00:34:53] you can't even try to make a plan. That's going to be like, you're going to play it safe. Like, it's sort of like that we had like, Oh, it's dangerous fun. There's nowhere to hide in the old, in the, in the, in the old new era. But, but now I think that the idea is like, Hey, this is such a, like a fun house that there's no way that you're ever going to be able to predict

[00:35:14] anything. And the only way to play this game is for more players to adopt a Rick Devins-esque mindset of just, just take the big swing because you're not, you have no idea what we're going to do. Yeah. I feel that's going to be at least the goal, but what we've known, but a lot of times when we see big twists happen like this or big changes play, it makes players play more conservatively.

[00:35:44] And so my concern and my fear is that with making these big things and making the flip where we're going to go and we're going to see, instead of going and seeing these big moves and all these people on all these things happening, we're instead going to see, okay, let's just do a big block. And I'm not going to flip just yet because I don't know what's going to happen next round. And maybe the people who I flipped on are now going to get some super duper big secret advantage, which is going to get me out because I don't know. So, but it really just

[00:36:14] depends on the people and the person, because maybe that's going to be what happens. Most people are going to be conservative or maybe they're just going to all go and cast people who are, they just went and did a Rick Devins personality test. And now you've cast a, how many more, is it 20 or 21? I keep on doing different things. I think there's 21. Okay. 21 Rick Devins in the season. 20. And there's only one Rick Devins, but I just, I really felt like,

[00:36:38] I heard Jeff talk, I made a video talking about that, that my, my thesis on this, that Jeff did this, there was this, uh, for your consideration event that they did on Tuesday. And Jeff talked about the game as like, the game is impossible that you can't even win. There's no way to actually win the game. It's impossible. And he said, it's an impossible game by design. And he said, and we make it that way on purpose, which, um, is almost like saying like that it's going to

[00:37:06] end up being much more luck based by the end of it. And so you might as well be doing things to sort of try to like maximize your luck. Hmm. Yeah. Like it just takes me back to that, like mid shift drift where it's, it's a change. If you're going luck based instead of surviving, instead of like more strategic, but then it's like,

[00:37:36] I always believe that when people change things, the savvy players will rise to the top and be able to play around it. This isn't me saying I'm for or against what's happening, but I am curious to see how the players navigate this. And I'm also curious to see if we continue to do these luck based seasons. And then if we went back to like, I don't know, two or three generations before how the

[00:38:02] players would handle it. Cause I think that would also be interesting as well too. Like, uh, not a back to the basics, but a back to the, I don't know, I guess we're back to 36 and that's now super old and super boring according to Jeff. Yeah. Uh, but I think that they also are trying to like have their cake and eat it too. Like they want sort of like these seasons that are very twist based, but I feel like that they are not necessarily like, um, holding up the people who are sort of

[00:38:30] like the winners who are sort of like representative of sort of like being under the radar and then capitalizing on luck at the last minute. I feel like that they don't necessarily like that outcome, but I also feel like that they are like making a world and maybe this, this idea of the open era shift. They're really trying to push people into playing bigger in the open era. But I think that

[00:38:56] the game that they're creating ends up giving them output that they don't necessarily want to celebrate. Oh, so you're saying the open era is trying to get the wolves, but the hyenas are going to win. Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree. I don't think that they necessarily love the hyena outcome. I think they would love, they would love the lions, uh, being the winners. Yeah. I think it's, you know what

[00:39:23] it is? It's a, there's a balance where I think that in their perfect world, their lions are always going to be like the, like, like I think Savannah is a perfect chaotic lion in productions world. Cause you know, started the merge immediately had a blind side managed all this chaos and people and made it to the final four with her big core three Alliance. And then was able to go to the end was able to have

[00:39:49] a dominant win, you know, was someone who played to the twin one and one of that got to do the twist. Remember when they were split in two tribes managed to go and make the twists work with her. And then still have this like lion like game that made it to the end. Right. So I think that seeing Savannah play and being like, wow, we can do all these twists. Our players can have a twist and still be dominant. It's like, we can have more of these. And I think it comes to survivor eugenics

[00:40:15] where you're trying to push that perfect. You're trying to evolve into that perfect player. You're trying to go and force and put pressure on that evolution because they're like, we want to have more players that are like this. But I think that if you, genetics is weird, you know, you might be like, I want this, I want to select for this trait. I'm going to put pressure to select for this trait. And there's this now one random trait that exists in life that actually, congratulations,

[00:40:41] this is actually great for us. Like, like, like, this is great. Like for example, you know, malaria, you know, you have malaria, people die from malaria. There was a rat, there's a mutation in your hemoglobin, the thing that makes your blood where it's like, great. You actually, if you have malaria, you're going to have it less, but you get two of these copies. Congratulations. We've made sickle cell disease, you know? So it's like, if you're going and you're applying pressure, you might go and you might get what you want where you're like, oh yeah, we now have this player, but now you might go

[00:41:09] and get something completely random, different than what you've expected. Mm-hmm. I think that what we might see in the open era is like the idea of like the 50, 50 coin, the Mr. Beast coin. And not necessarily that Mr. Beast is going to come back. And I think we're certainly not going to double the prize money again, but, but the idea of like, hey, here's a thing. And then you could take this chance and you can take this chance and you can really get this

[00:41:36] very powerful advantage where all the hyenas are going to be cowering in the corner. They're never going to take a chance like this, but maybe there's a lion. One of the lions will do it and they'll go big or they'll go home. And I think that that's sort of, I think the type of gameplay they want to try to foster going into the open era. Yes. I see that. I see. And apologies if this comes and gets

[00:42:01] manifested into truth, but like I'm thinking about what type of advantages, if I am production, would I want to place in the game that I think is going to apply pressure onto other people that are lions. And I'm like, I see people being able, I see people, a minority of voters being able to go and vote at tribal ice in the open era. I see what's another thing that might happen. I see like people

[00:42:26] being able to go and like select teams for something or like, or like a house or you, or you go and like you pick, you power, pick your tribes like that. Like I see things where it's like, you have so much power in this game. And if you're not the person with power, you are just sitting and crossing your fingers, hoping that it works well for you, which is going to incentivize you to then try to get the more power. Yeah. Maybe the power broker is something that you're going to know you're,

[00:42:53] you're fighting to be the power broker. And then only people who are playing a big game are going to want to be put in that position. There's too many eyes on you for the hyena to ever want that position. So we'll see ultimately where this goes when we get to the fall. I want to get your take on it. So you were part of the group of winners that were invited to be

[00:43:18] at the survivor 50 finale. I saw some photos of the winners section that was going on. Can you give us a little bit of a sense of what it was like to watch the survivor 50 finale with the group of winners from survivor history that were brought together? Oh my goodness. You see, I feel as if I'm not the person to speak about because it was also my

[00:43:42] first finale ever. And it was, it was so spectacular. Okay. Cause to my left, I have Boston Rob and Andy Cochran, you know, cause you can't have a finale without Cochran in attendance. They didn't talk to him. They didn't talk to anyone. They barely talked to the people on the show. No, the shot that you're talking about, Rob, we were all sitting there at plus ones. Then they're like, we're going to get a shot of all the winners. This is going to be amazing. So they moved us all

[00:44:11] to this one section. So all the winners could be there, you know, and of course Boston Rob's kids, cause no one is going to tell them to move at all. So it was us winners and Boston Rob's kids. And then we're here ready for this shot. We're sitting pretty. They kicked out people, like people being like, we need to get this shot. They go, they cut. Sorry, Connor. Actually, I know. Sorry, Connor. They actually, they cut to Tina to get that car curse shot, which I have feelings about. I don't think that results the car curse boo boring. And then they say, Oh,

[00:44:39] actually just wanted Tina. So bye guys. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. That's a wrap. And so they didn't even use the shot of the winners, which for me is so baffling because when are you ever going to get 21 winners in the same room together? Like it could have been such a big celebration. And this isn't, this isn't even me being like egotistical being like, I want to be on TV more. Just like you had, you had all the way from Tina to Savannah who was on stage, but you had from Tina

[00:45:05] to, to Rachel here that like in this area, 25 years, the season was a season of celebration. And it's like, people only knew because social media exists that we were there. If social media didn't exist, no one would know that you managed to convince all these people to come back for this celebration. Yeah. I hear you. I, it is wild to think that they, they brought these people back and other than like have them, them on the red carpet, you know, they didn't really use them

[00:45:34] in any sort of a way. Uh, it is very confusing why they did it that way. I do wonder if that they had invited the winners to come before they landed on what the format of the live finale was going to be. Maybe that's always a possibility. Like there was, because a lot changed where the finale, as Jeff said, it was very, it wasn't like a 30 minute reunion show. It was very interspersed with

[00:46:00] moments that were there that we saw. And then also we didn't get our random kid voting for who they thought there was when I was very excited to see that, but there was no random child, but you know, the finales were new. Jeff was spoiling things left, right and center. That was, that was, I know you were all, I remember when I was in the room when it happened. So I think there were a lot of different things that were happening. Yeah. Can you give your reaction to what was going on at the

[00:46:27] point where the, you're sitting with all the winners and Jeff ends up talking about the, you know, the fire making is about to happen. And then we bring out Rizzo and then he tells Rizzo that he is, now the next member of the jury. Yeah. So we go, cause you know, they've set the people up during ad breaks and like, so the jury members were already on stage even before fire came in. I remember

[00:46:54] thinking that's weird that they're right here. Like what's happening. Then go, they're about to go to fire. Jeff comes out and we're like, this is really weird. Like why is there an MTC and why is Jeff here? And then he calls out Rizzo and we're like, he's calling up Jonathan too. And they're going to talk about, they're going to talk about, oh, fire, not fire. Cause like, this is so weird. And then Jeff was talking, everyone is like looking back and forth being like, is someone going to say

[00:47:20] something? Like, this is like, what is it? The rehearsal with the air, with the airline pilots where no one is saying anything. Is it the rehearsal? Yeah. Uh, yeah. Uh, Nathan Fielder, right? That he is. Yeah. Because that what he's saying is that because that, yeah, that there's the, the, the co-pilot knows there's a problem, but there's too much respect for the actual pilot. So the co-pilot sees something, but they don't say anything because

[00:47:45] that they, they, they don't want to be disrespectful to the pilot. Yes. And we were all co-pilots here. Every single person in this room was a co-pilot. Rizzo was a co-pilot. Like the jury was a co-pilot. We know Jeff's about to crash. Yes. We see that. We see, we see the crash. We see the blinking lights. And then Jeff says the final, okay, Rizzo, take a seat. And you see Rizzo was like, cause I was like, Rizzo does not look well. And then like, cause he was worried too. And he's

[00:48:12] like now slowly walking to the jury. And you can actually hear the whole audience go, oh, like we all as a collective did the, well, and then Jeff was like, what's, what's wrong? What's going on? And everyone is like, this is so bad. And then immediately the first thing goes, we go and we whip our heads to Cochran, you know, cause he's the archivist. We're like, Cochran, what is the delay? What is the delay on this? Like, tell us. And then he's like,

[00:48:38] it's six seconds. And we're like, oh, so this is, this is, everyone is annoying. Right. And then apparently people got service on their phone. My phone does not like service in these studios. Chat PCC is like, what's Jeff doing? I'm like, so this aired, this, this is on air. This is happening. And like, Jeff is like, and they pan off and whatever. And Jeff was like, oh, what did something, did something go on? Why are you guys doing this? Like what, what's going on? Cause we just all saw

[00:49:05] this plane crash. And then everyone's like telling him, Jeff, like you spoiled. He's like, what do you mean? He's like, did I do something wrong? He's like, did I F up? And he's like, oh crap. So we're all like, oh, they're going to obviously this is, they're going to cut it for the West coast. No problem. But, and then we're like, it's so funny how they're going to cut it from the West coast. But I'm like in a digital age, this is going to be on forever. Like everyone is going to know this. It does not matter if you cut it on the West coast because blink sneeze suddenly. It's

[00:49:32] like, you will find it. It will be on the archives. So he, we go back to the ad is done. Everyone is talking about this. And then Jeff does what no one thinks Jeff is going to do. And he's like, yeah. So I messed up. Let's watch the fire. And then everyone is like, oh, so he owns up to it. And he even did a call back to it when he's like, well, do you guys want to just tell me who wins? Do you want me to see the votes? And everyone's like, tell us who wins. Like, so it really made it to like one of those things where it's like, it's live TV. It's been a while, you know, Jeff,

[00:49:59] like Jeff is like just the only human and he managed to mess up in the biggest messy up ways. And then I think by owning up to it. And also because that fire making challenge was Jonathan freaking curb stomped Rizzo. Rizzo like, so it was even like we knew within the first three seconds of watching the fire making, even if we didn't know the spoiler, Jonathan was going to win because that fire was a big fire. Right. It was overall just turned. Yeah, go ahead.

[00:50:25] Jeff's worst moment of the finale, but also his best moment of the finale, you know, where he made it, he made a mistake, but then he also came back and in his own way, like this was Sari walking across the balance beam of, you know, like, oh, he blew it so bad, but then he, he, he walked it back and he showed a little bit of like, that was the spirit of survivor. And I think that is when Jeff is at

[00:50:51] his best when he's able to like be off script and be able to, Hey, this is what we're supposed to be doing, but actually I'm going to like on a dime switch to what's happening over here. So I thought that that was a great moment for, for Jeff. I do wonder if ultimately though, like, I think that they should cut it from the, like, cause people are going to be streaming this for years and years

[00:51:17] and years. Like, I was like, yeah, it was a moment and you had to be there. But like, if I'm streaming survivor, if I'm a new survivor fan in a year from now, I'm streaming survivor 50, like what's, what's more important? Like, should I, should I get it spoiled for me as a survivor fan, like a year from now? Uh, because I know we were live then. What do you think? Should they, should they cut it out

[00:51:42] of the, like the recording that people are going to be watching for years and years on Paramount? This is what you do. Okay. I think that on streaming, you should go and you should cut it. Cause I think it's one of those things where it's like, Oh, live TV, it's a flood. This happened, whatever. But for me, if I'm watching and I'm binging the show, like when I binged it and then I see this flood happen, it like, it doesn't matter to me. I'm not watching with anyone. I'm watching

[00:52:10] with myself. Why does it matter that Jeff spoiled the ending? I think what you want to do is that you want to go and you want to have a DVD. When you release the survivor DVD, you go and you release two episodes, like two versions of that episode. You release like the cut version and the uncut version. And the reason why you, and then you recommend people, Oh, if it's your first time watching, we recommend the cut version. Then we recommend the uncut, like make it some sort of thing where it's

[00:52:34] like, you still have this media moment on in person, but then for the experience of the binge, you still are able to go and watch that season and be like, I don't know. I'm seeing Rizzo make fire. Like Joe said, if it's a knife fight, make sure both people have knives. It just turned out Jonathan's knife was a machete because he just has big hands. Yeah. So I think he could just cut it out. And I know that Jeff mentioned it a couple of times, but I think that, that why spoil that for people

[00:53:02] who are watching the season for the very first time. And then you can watch it on YouTube. You'll hear about it. Just like, you know, in survivor of the Amazon, when I voted out Roger, I sang na, na, na, na, na. Hey, hey, hey, goodbye. Cause they cut that out. They cut that out. They weren't like, Oh, we have to preserve it. Like we have to pay the rights for the song. We need to preserve that moment. Cause that's what was in the real episode. They just come out and nobody's people that watch it now, they don't even know what you're talking about. But if you were there live,

[00:53:30] you had a different experience. Yes. Or if you bootleg it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's in the bootleg version, Rob. Yeah. Did you have any interactions with any survivors that you had never met before when you were with all the winners? Yes, I did. I finally got to meet the queen, the sepia. Oh yeah. They gave her her flowers and she was in the room and she knew who I was. And I was like, girl, I know who you are. She was beaming the sepia. She was, uh, she found the

[00:53:59] fountain of youth is what she did. She looks amazing. She was there with her husband who was also spectacular. We got to just sit down and talk about survivor, talk about life as well too. And she is so wonderful. So amazing. Like that for me was the big guy I got to meet. Are you talking about players or winners? What's the way you want to talk about? I mean, either, whatever, anybody that was interesting for you.

[00:54:24] Yeah. Who else? Cochran. That was so exciting because you know, as a fan, I watched every finale. Oh, there he is. There he is. Oh, there he's actually on the show. So that was so fun going and sitting beside Cochran, chatting with him, chatting about life, what he's been doing. Sophie was in the audience too. Sophie from 23. So fun chatting with her. She's so cool. Amazing. Like I'm kind of thinking there's so many people who I got to talk to. I got to see Boston,

[00:54:50] Rob and Tyson again. I annoyed them because after every ad break, I would leave my aisle to talk to people. And every single time he had to just move to get, to let me out. They were, and then there were the non-survivor players who were there. Like there was like Nikki Glaser, Nikki Glaser. I always pronounce the last name wrong. Nikki Glaser was in the audience as well too. Adam Scott was there too. No Tyler Perry today. I guess he's busy filming in Atlanta, but there were so many cool people that

[00:55:19] were there that I got to talk to be like, it's so nice to meet you. JLP from Australian Survivor was there. So everyone, it was, and I think the energy was just so fun because it's like, we have not had these. The last time we had, this was 2019. And the last time it was live was 2019 for season for Edge of Extinction. Cause yeah. Cause 39 was pre-taped. And so it was so fun. The energy was amazing.

[00:55:46] It was so cool to just see everyone in the room, to be, to see players there. Aris was there. Like, like Aris, it was like, it was just like to see all these people. And I keep on like, my names just keep on popping up and I can do this for days and days. And if you're watching this and you weren't mentioned, let me tell you, I was still back to see you. I promise. Yes. And what, what about, I know you had a run-in with Adam Scott. Yes. I've met Adam before. Oh, you have. When?

[00:56:13] Yes, I have. Wait, Adam Scott. Oh, I'm mixing up with Adam Klein. Not Adam Scott Klein. Right. Yes. Adam Scott Klein, our good friend Adam Scott Klein. Yeah, that was great. So I, uh, I cannot, I can only find idols. I can never find people. So it was actually Connor, my husband, who was like, Hey, Adam Scott is sitting here. And I flashback cause I was at Ron Clark's party and Tyler Perry was there. And I really wanted to talk to him cause love his stuff. But then I was

[00:56:40] too shy and then he left. So coming into this finale, I was like, I'm going to be a menace. If I see someone who I want to speak to, I am going to speak to that person. And so I saw him and then the ad break was ending. So I go look to Adam Klein. And then I'm like, at the ad break, we are going to accost this man. We are going to run to talk to him because I know I wanted to, I'm like, Parks and Rec, Severance. I'm like the good place. I'm like, I need to go and talk to this man. And so immediately

[00:57:06] the ad break goes, we rush off. And then of course I'm like, Adam, my name's Marianne. I won season 42. This is also Adam. He won season 43. Cause you got to show. I'm like, I'm not just a fan. I'm like, you're a fan of me too. Like we have some, like I'm here, you're like here, but like, don't worry about it. And then we, and then we go and we chat and he's like, Oh my gosh. Like he's like, he's so funny. Cause he's like, I've watched your seasons. I don't remember who either of you are,

[00:57:31] but I promise you I've watched your seasons. Yeah. I know. I'm like, are you sure you watched my season? Was that your any? I didn't say that though. Cause I'm like, haha. I never heard that one before, but like, he was so kind, got to chat with him. We obviously got our obligatory photo. And then we just like cussled off and like, we were giggling. We're like, we did it. We did it. And we saw, I'm Scott. This is so fun. Yeah. Marianne, what a delight it's been to catch up

[00:57:59] about all this. Any other finale stories that you want to share? Oh my gosh. What finale stories do I want? It was, the finale was fun. LA has the best porta potties ever. Those things were the bougiest porta potties that I've ever seen. Yes. At the finale. Yes. And then they finally, they, they, some other things as well too. They brought the winners, the winner wall. So I got to sign my

[00:58:25] winner, finally sign my winner wall thing. And where are they keeping the winner wall? It was like in like the, like in general, in general, like where does it go from here? Is that the same one that's in the survivor pop-up cafes? Yeah. They move it around. Like, so someone keeps it and they either ship it or something, but it was the same winner wall that they always have. Cause that's how the signatures are there. So I finally got to sign that, which was so fun. And you know,

[00:58:53] other than the lack of food, who, Oh my gosh, I just was not fed at all, but you know, TV, whatever. It was so fun. And I really hope that this finale did not turn Jeff off from finales. Yeah. And I hope that the next returning season will also have a live finale. I don't think the format, I would have liked to hear the jury met the pre-jury member speak more in the finale, but yeah, it wasn't the worst.

[00:59:19] I think that they were trying to control the chaos. I think that they didn't want it to be like, there's how are we going to do this? We're going to have 24 people on the stage. All these people want to like, Oh, I want to talk about this. I want to talk about this. I'm going to talk about this. Like, it really would have been like hurting cats. So I do understand why they did it the way that they did it, but I feel like that they could have had like things like not as structured where maybe we could have had like, all right, well, let's, let's check in with like, uh, you know, here's

[00:59:48] Jenna Lewis, Savannah, like, like the first, like, uh, and Q let's, let's talk to them like that. Like, you know, maybe done, done like a segment where it's a little bit more like talking with everybody, but I digress. Uh, like, you know, like, go ahead. Yeah, I agree. I'm like, I think it was fun. Like, I think it's fun to go give Rick Devens the coin. I think it's fun. What did they even give Stephanie or did they just give Ozzy the shirt? And they gave Ozzy a t-shirt. It was like, you know,

[01:00:16] it was like a retirement party of like, okay, here's a gift for you. That's what it really felt like. Yeah. But that was so funny. Ozzy, you get this t-shirt. Seri, you get a lifetime award with your name inscribed on it. And apparently I heard a typo. So it really felt it was, yes, someone will, have the details, but it really felt as if it's like, we got to see the, we got to see a lot of the people we wanted to see, but we got to see very little of the people that we wanted to see.

[01:00:44] If that makes sense. Cause I'm like, what do you mean you have Q on stage? And I did not hear a single word come out of Q's mouth. Yeah. I just feel like, especially in the age of streaming or it's like, okay. And then, Hey, for you people on Paramount plus stick around, we're going to do like some sort of like, they were all there. It didn't even have to be on the stage. Like, Oh, why didn't we, why didn't we record? Like I'll volunteer as tribute. Like, let me go backstage and let's, let's like, you had the, that, like that, that big green room where we shot,

[01:01:13] like, it just seemed like a missed opportunity of like, well, why didn't we do something more with everybody? I know. I know. That's the one thing where I'm like, I wish I heard more, but like, you know, I think it's, but I think it's one of those things where you're like, Oh, I wish I heard more. But if you're thinking about the, like the streamers, the bingers who are then going to watch the finale afterwards, it's one of those things that would be nice in the moment, but I can see why they cut it because when you're looking at the product five, 10 years from now, you're going to be like, Oh, this makes sense.

[01:01:42] Okay. Marianne. I'm sad about it. We're sad, but we'll, we'll be okay. Life will move on. Life will move on. Okay. What's next for you? Besides you have your tests. Yes. So I had my test and then, you know, 50 was very special because I finally came out of hiding from med school. Yes. And after this, you know, I'm going to, going to do some travel this

[01:02:07] summer, but then I am in, I'm going to Korea. Oh, I'm going to Seattle. I'm going to wait. Why Korea? My friends and I wanted to go to Korea. So we're going to Korea. Is there anything in particular, is there like an attraction that you're going to go see? This, that's the funny story. So at first we were just going to Korea just for Korea's sake. And then when we were booking things, we're like, why is everything in Busan booked? And then we found out that BTS is going

[01:02:35] to be in Busan the same time we're there. And I'm like, Oh, should we change our schedule? But then we found out the tickets were not, had not been sold yet. So we're like, I guess we're going to try to see BTS in Busan. So I guess now I am an army member because I'm seeing them in there. You're a K-pop fan now? I guess so. I guess so. You know, that's, that's, I know them all. I know them. I know Big Bang, G-Dragon, Twice, XG, even though they're technically Japanese, but like, so

[01:03:03] I'm very excited for that. It's going to be very fun. I do like music. A lot of concerts, Ariana Grande. But then when September comes after the weddings, I'm going to my other people's, I will be back in hiding in clerkship where it's the most difficult year. So I'm very happy 50 happened when it happened. Okay. All right. Well, Marianne, I'm so happy. What about you? What's going on in your life? I mean, I'm just going to be podcasting

[01:03:31] and talking about Survivor. I'm going to take my family to Orlando in a couple of weeks. Ooh. Is it an apology for being an absentee father? Cause I'm 50. Yes, that is. That's actually, that was my thinking of like, as I went into this stretch where I was doing all this stuff for the book and for the, uh, the podcast, basically like I was on like, uh, like just like, I was like, okay,

[01:03:59] daddy's gonna, daddy's gonna do something nice for everybody when, after I, after this is all over. And so that's like, uh, my, uh, apology tour to my family coming up. Okay. And I hear you're doing Hollywood and Epcot and universal. Am I making that correct? No, no. I think that you're, you're a good memory. Uh, I think that I said, I wanted to do, uh, what my kids are very into star Wars. They want to go back to Hollywood studios. And I think we're going to do, uh, maybe one more theme

[01:04:24] park day somewhere, somewhere at universal. Oh, universal. And then Hollywood event hotel. And then say, hang out at the hotel. Yeah. Yeah. Just so like a little bit of a little bit of, a little bit of, uh, hopefully relaxing time, but we'll see. We'll see. All right. Well, I hope you're not lying. Why would I lie? Where were like, I'm going to Paris. I lied. I'm going to Scotland. I really did go to Paris. What's it now? Where are you going? What's a new show?

[01:04:53] There was no lie. There was no lie with Paris and Scotland. I kid. I kid. Yeah. Okay. I mean, listen, I wish I was lying. No, you don't. You have a very fulfilled life of, uh, fulfilled life surrounded by people who love and care for you. Listen, we all do respect my family. Who's not listening. Uh, you think it's more fun to go on the traders or go on vacation with my family? What do you think? Well, how old is your youngest?

[01:05:21] 10. 10. Yeah. No, I think that's old enough, but we digress. I'll say that the, uh, much like survivor vacation, like I'm a tribal council, um, survivor is like vacationing with your family. There are the highest of highs only to be followed by the lowest of lows. And you just have to endure.

[01:05:48] And if you can get through the really down times, hopefully there's triumph right around the corner. And fireworks. Mm-hmm. Yes. And, and my family does not pass up a $9 bottle of water anytime they see it. They're like, Oh, we need dad. We are so thirsty. We need this $9 bottle of water. Try bringing water bottles next time. Just, just bring the backpack. Can I tell you what my wife says? I don't like, I don't like how it comes out from the,

[01:06:18] from the, from the thing. Oh, interesting. Okay. Okay. You just have to, and that's when my head explodes. You know, you just, you just have to gas that yourself. Cause she's so right. The water in Disney does not taste good, but you just have to drink it because you don't want you. I want to spend my money on churros and pretzels. Yeah. Not water. I get that. Okay. All right, Miriam, this was so fun. Thank you for making time today. I appreciate it.

[01:06:44] Of course. Okay. And of course, uh, for everybody else, we're going to do a lot more fun stuff this week. We're going to do a wand off. We're going to do a post season mailbag. We're going to try to catch up with Steven Fishback. So plenty of survivor stuff still coming your way this week here on RHAP. Thank you so much for joining us. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye.