Know-It-Alls: Survivor 50 Ep 12

[00:00:00] We all love Survivor and in my first ever book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken, I'll tell you how this little show evolved from that juggernaut first season on the beaches of Borneo all the way into its landmark 50th season. I'm like a storyteller, that's what I do. What role did the greatest players, the unforgettable moments, and Jeff Probst himself have in shaping what Survivor has become today? And what contribution did we play in building this worldwide tribe of Survivor fans? Love you, bae!

[00:00:28] For you future players, I've also included my Ultimate Survivor Playbook to help you win the million dollars, unlike me. It's fun, you know what, dude? It's fun. This hardcover edition is filled with beautiful Survivor illustrations in every chapter and is an amazing addition for every Survivor collector. I'm a meat collector. Pre-orders are everything for a book launch, so to say thank you to everyone who pre-orders, you'll receive an exclusive digital bonus chapter

[00:00:56] called The Ultimate Rites of Passage. My personal tribute to all the players who have ever competed on the show, all 751. This is huge. I needed this. Ooh. Pre-order wherever books are sold, in hardcover and as an audiobook at robhasabook.com. That's robhasabook.com. Nicely done, Rob.

[00:01:21] The smartest guys around are about to break it down like they've won the game a million times. Do you win the game at all? Survivor Know-It-Alls

[00:02:11] That's right. Take the card off. That's it. Steven. It's over. Survivor 50 is officially over. It was inconceivable. How is that the puzzle? Inconceivable. How is that the puzzle that they had for this? It's not even a Survivor word. Yeah, that's a Princess Bride word. Like, that's a very strange choice to just go like the fun movie reference. Yeah. Yeah. Forget about it. Forget about it. That's the next one.

[00:02:39] Backstay is like, hey, like, boy, I think that this could be it for Sari. Kyle, let's get the, like, we need the 13-letter word. Like, let's roll with inconceivable here. Yeah. What are some other big movie words they could have done? Has happened. Yeah. And it was also, in other news, Rick Devins also tonight. So two huge fan favorites go out here at the final 6-7 here. And we're not happy. We're not happy about this.

[00:03:07] What a bleak day for Survivor. Sari, I mean, what can you say? Rob, what could you say? I guess what I could say is that Sari, truly the knowing is know-it-all, who now has in five times, four out of the five times, was right there, like, in the final days of Survivor. And ultimately, this could have been, and I think that this might be more of an interesting

[00:03:36] off-season podcast of maybe playing her best game. Yes. I think we say that every single time. No, but this was so masterful. And I guess it's a very tough field. Yeah. She dominated this game most of the way through. True. And then these last couple of votes didn't go her way. I really, I can't wait to talk about this with you because I think that more things went wrong for Sari at the final 7 than the final 6. And I'd love to break that down here with you.

[00:04:06] But we're in mourning tonight, and it's such a sad night for Survivor. And I hope that really this only cements Sari's legacy. And I think that that's just part of her story as she's the greatest to never win and that she's so celebrated. And I do feel like that her goodbye from the show seemed like that it was, the show did

[00:04:34] not present it nearly as sad and tragic as even Ozzy's boot from last week. I know. I was really surprised by that. I felt like that was a real miss from the show because I have seen since even before this season that she has been the number one rooting interest for every fan I've spoken to. Yeah. And everybody has been so excited for her. And then across this season, she has been so effortlessly dominant in this way. You know, Joe called it, you know, Joe said something about how like gracefully, you

[00:05:03] know, you know, she's kind of like manipulated the whole season. And I think that's been there so much. In every vote, it seemed to come down to what Sari wanted. She would spin people in circles when they weren't going her way. And, you know, in some ways was screwed over by this twist at the final nine where she like, you know, even like couldn't mind meld or mind control Ozzy on a different beach, but did her best through, through the, you know, through the tool of Jonathan.

[00:05:29] But played such a dominant, masterful game was in every conversation, always knew what was happening. And even today knew exactly what was happening, but, you know, with her ouster, truly one of the best games we've seen from anybody ever in the history of Survivor, but obviously not a winning game here. And I agree. How could you not give her the swelling music and the orchestrations and maybe the music swell? They invented new music for her at her final six ouster in Game Changers.

[00:05:57] And I think that that was almost presented as more of an epic sendoff in Survivor Game Changers than it was here in Survivor 50 under very similar circumstances at the final six. And also Aubrey is there. And I love the poetry of Sari with Aubrey, like we got to stop meeting like this. Once again, Sari's game comes to an end here at the final six. In Game Changers, she was working with Aubrey.

[00:06:25] Here, it's Aubrey who undermines Sari and is set up, and I'm sure you'll want to talk about this, a queen slayer here as we see Aubrey get a lot of the credit for what goes on with Sari. But I think this is going to be a hard pill for people to swallow because I really feel like that so much of Survivor 50 was presented as, okay, this one is Sari's game. Yeah, I think that's exactly right.

[00:06:53] And I mean, I'd love to talk about, you know, does Aubrey deserve credit for this? Whatever deserve means. We'll get there. Let's just stick with us talking about Sari and her. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do think that like this is, yes, like so much has been about Sari and I do feel like the fan, I mean, I've often said that like nobody, I'm sure other people have often said this too. No Survivor contestant has the universal love that Sari does, like across all, you know, fandoms of the show.

[00:07:20] You know, there's people who love Joe, people who love Rick, they hate the other one. The people like me, people like Savage, you know, hate the other one. And everybody loves Sari for the most part. And I think that, yeah, it's been, and seeing her play this epic game in this epic season has been so gratifying and one of the real joys of this iconic season. So, and yes, I think for her to go out kind of in this sort of, yeah, like, okay, like see you later way, we kind of felt like not up to the momentousness of it, but still like such an incredible game.

[00:07:50] And like being voted out here doesn't take away from like what an amazing game she played. Yeah. Jeff, again, has Sari say, Hey, do you want to say it? I believe that this was the same thing that happened in Survivor Game Changers also. I think that they really just ran it back where that Sari, and that was so unprecedented that it was an advantage get and they didn't know what to do and they didn't know what to say. And Sari in that moment also talks about how grateful she is, how much Survivor has given to her.

[00:08:18] We saw a flashback to that moment at the beginning of this season. And then once again, Jeff here does the same thing of allows Sari, I guess this is the ultimate compliment that you give to a Survivor player is that you let them say the tribe has spoken. The ultimate compliment is getting to sit in Jeff's chair. Sure. Sure. And Sari, you know, totally graceful in terms of how she receives this. Steven, do you think she knew? Oh yeah.

[00:08:47] She, I mean, she said she knew, right? When, when she was sitting with Tiffany, she says, you know, Tiffany's like, you know, what's what, you know, she says to Tiffany, like, it's me, like it was going to be you. Now it's me. Yeah. And I need to like come up with this plan to get Aubrey out. I'm sure she knew she was going. Yeah. You don't think that she had thought that she had flipped it and that she thought that again, it's too late to play the shot in the dark. I believe Rick plays the shot in the dark at the final seven, which is the final night to play the shot in the dark. Um, did, did Rizzo play his idol by the way?

[00:09:17] I was so distracted with Sari. No, Rizzo didn't. Rizzo held it. Really? Yeah. Two seasons, two seasons in a row holding onto it all the way. Enough is enough. Enough is enough, Rizzo. Just play the idol. Come on. This was great. I feel like this, you know, yeah, it's very funny that Tiffany of all people was the one after, you know, Tiffany coming from season 46 where they're like their whole thing is we got to blindside the person with the idol. Um, she, she's, she's like, no, we have to blindside the person with the idol.

[00:09:44] Um, and, and so, yeah, but nobody else really seemed to care. Yeah. Steven, is this it for Sari? Do you think? No. She said coming back this season, this was going to be the final time she played survivor. You can, it's so easy to say that going into the season when you still have it all ahead of you. Yeah. I think that Sari, in thinking about this before we came on, she really missed the opportunity

[00:10:10] to play with like a bunch of nobodies. And I think that maybe the closest she comes to that is in Micronesia in her second time that she plays in fans versus favorites. You know, Rob gets his win in Redemption Island to take nothing away from what Rob did there, but that, that she just ends up playing, especially in these last couple of times out against really top tier competition and nobody's going to go to the end with her.

[00:10:39] And so that just becomes such a problem. And she's so good at the middle of the game, but like her fatal flaw tends to be that the skills that are required to sort of like bludgeon your way to the end of the game, i.e. making the fire at final four. That's just like the one fatal flaw in her game. I've been saying that consistently that I didn't think Sari was going to make it to the end. And we talked about this at your book event last week, you know, you, someone asked a question

[00:11:08] about Sari's end game. And I said, there's, I, you, you asked like, do you think it's possible, you know, that she gets to the end? And I said, I don't, I don't think so. Like, I mean, honestly, I was surprised that Ozzy was willing to take her to the end. And then I do think, I really think losing Ozzy is the game losing thing that happens for her. She puts so many eggs in that basket. He truly did seem to be committed to taking her to the end. And I don't think with Tiff and Ozzy here at the final seven slash six, I don't think she's going home in this, in this spot.

[00:11:37] But losing Ozzy was a big blow to her game. I don't think that that was necessarily the fatal flaw. And I'd love to talk a little bit more about what I think ultimately went wrong for her. We will have exit interviews, double exit interviews this week. We'll talk with Rick Devins and Sari on the podcast. I will also talk with Drew Basile coming up on Thursday. So a really big week as we Kareem into the finale in just seven days where we will find

[00:12:06] out the winner of Survivor 50. Stephen, I... Kareem, she was on, she was on, Kareem was on season 26, I think. Yeah. Not this season. Yes. Stephen, I want to go back to the final seven. I made a video this week where I talked about here's the final path. Wait, Rob, can I cut you off here? I'm so sorry. We haven't, we've been talking for like 10 minutes here. I haven't even congratulated you. The big news coming out of today is that Rob Sestranino is a bestselling author.

[00:12:36] Holy cow. Today... Game recognized game that just two bestselling authors here as the Tribe and I have spoken available in hardcover and the audiobook and Kindle has now become a national bestselling book. An instant national bestseller, USA Today, national bestselling author, Rob Sestranino. Here's to us, Rob. Us and Taryn. Here's to the three of us. Who's the three of us? Who's the third?

[00:13:06] And Taryn? Taryn. Yes. Okay. The big three. Yes. So thank you so much, everybody. And I've had such a nice week meeting everybody in terms of the book, but enough about me. Let's get back to what I think went wrong for Sari. And I made a video this week and I talked about here's the path to the end of the game for all of the players that are left. And I started with Sari, who I felt like had the best chance to win the game.

[00:13:34] And what I thought was one of the keys for Sari to win this game was no matter what, at the final seven, Rick Devins can't go home. And really- That's really, you said that previously? You said that previously? I made a video yesterday talking about this. Okay. Okay. And the way I looked at it was this, was that if Rick Devins stays in the game, Ozzy's

[00:13:58] gone, but the big shield in front of Sari can still be Rick Devins. And in Rick Devins, as long as Rick Devins is in the game, Joe is still going to be like, we got to get out Rick Devins. We need to get, like everybody's focused about on Rick Devins and what he's going to do. And people are talking about, and we see Sari talking about in the episode, hey, Rick Devins, he could get to the end. He could win the game. And that's a problem for everybody else on this island except for Sari.

[00:14:27] Because Sari, Rick Devins could win every immunity from here to the end of the game and play seven idols the rest of the way. Sari's still going to beat Rick Devins in the final three in the jury vote. So I felt like that a really important thing for Sari was that, hey, Jonathan can't lead the charge of get out Rick Devins here because then it makes it very easy for the other people to gang up on the most obvious pair that's left in the game, Sari and Tiffany.

[00:14:56] I was very worried about that for Sari. And the episode comes on and now we're talking about, hey, let's, Rick Devins is the obvious target. But Tiffany's like, hey, I got it. Let's blindside Rizzo. And Tiffany is talking to Jonathan like, hey, he's going to play his idol. Now he's going to be, we're going to let him just move on and get through the final seven. And now he's automatically in the final six.

[00:15:24] We're giving him a free ticket and Tiffany gets Jonathan on board and they bring this plan to Sari. And she's like, no, we can't lose Rizzo. We got to get rid of Rick Devins. And I was like, I don't like this. Sari, you of all people needed to keep Rick Devins. And she was the one pushing to send him out.

[00:15:51] So that read to me, excuse me, that read to me though so much like classic decoy boot. Everyone's voting Rick. Nobody's not voting Rick. You know, yeah, like we're talking about Rizzo here, but like we're all voting Rick. You know, that train to me seemed like it was so, it was, you know, you got the Joe, Joe was driving that train. There was no way Joe was getting off the Rick Devins path. I just never for a second thought that this vote was going any other way.

[00:16:19] I just, to me that it seemed like that Sari wanted Rick Devins to go out and, and we have, it's a six zero vote for Rick Devins at the final seven. And when you're this far into the game and you have a unanimous vote, you know that it's a six zero vote for Rick Devins and forget Rick Devins. Now three people out of the six have made the wrong decision. There's three people here. Yeah. At least two people here who've made the wrong decision.

[00:16:48] And I, and I fear that that was ultimately Sari and Tiffany who should have voted with Rick Devins. I kind of think you're right here. I wonder if Sari thinks she's got this solid thing with Rizzo. She's got the solid thing with Tiffany. If she can get to six with them, she's got three people here and then she can like, maybe like push it over the edge. You know, maybe she thinks Rizzo is more loyalty, loyal to her than, than he is. Like maybe that's her thought going into the tribal council.

[00:17:17] She doesn't know his backstory fully. He's been totally loyal. I mean, from her perspective, totally loyal. He's been her informant. She covers for him when she gets information, you know, about the plan to blindside Tiffany. She claims it was Aubrey who told her that as a way to pay a target on Aubrey. I wonder if she, you know, Rizzo like reads as this like goofy kid. I wonder if Sari thinks like, I've got this kid wrapped around my finger. Like he's going to like roll with me to the end. I've, and I've got Tiffany here too. At the worst, I'm getting a tie situation. Yeah.

[00:17:46] I think just going back to, and maybe I'm biased because of my experience in the last year, Sari has never won Survivor. She has won the traitors. And I think that Sari was playing this season like it was the traitors. And I think that Sari was looking to, she looked at these people and I think she was looking at who are the people that I can easily manipulate.

[00:18:15] These are the people that I'm, that I need to keep closest with me. The people that I can do my mind trick on and I need to keep them around as long as possible. And I need that. And that's, and that's Joe. And that turns out to be Jonathan that we see at the final six. Unfortunately, Aubrey is not one of these people. She may think Rizzo is one of these people, but he's ultimately not. And I think she knows Rick Devins is not one of these people.

[00:18:43] I feel like that Rick is going to do whatever he wants to do. And Rick wrote down Sari's name at the last tribal council. And I think that that ticked off Sari and she comes back and Rick is like, oh my God, I'm sorry about everything. And what did she say? Like that and $2 will get you a bag of chips or something like that.

[00:19:08] She was, I think at that point, Rick Devins, I think was dead to Sari and she's like, okay, Rick, you wrote my name down. You gotta go. But I think that she still needed him because that, that would have been, that would have been another car for Joe to chase and that they would not have all been able to get back on the same page. And I think that like the traders, Aubrey was the person who I think is like laying in

[00:19:33] the weeds, who had sussed out the person here who is running everything is Sari. And I don't think that any of the other, she's able to then convince enough other people to get on that train. And I just don't think that that happens if Rick is still around. I don't necessarily, I mean, I think you're probably right. I just think like the, the amount of, um, capital that Sari would have had to expend in

[00:20:00] order to save Rick might have been disproportionate where Tiffany wants to do it. Tiffany wants to vote out Rizzo. Jonathan seems like he's up for it. And now, yeah, but is Jonathan up for it? Like Joe obviously was going to be like very against it. Um, Rizzo is going to be against it. I mean, I guess like, you know, um, Aubrey's probably against it here. I think that like, you know, the next week, like Joe's going to be pissed at her. Like, why did you, you know, why did you play? I mean, maybe you're right.

[00:20:27] Maybe, maybe, maybe it's, it's more like that to me, like Sari's game here relies on like, like kind of like leading the sheep to the slaughter, right? You don't want the sheep to wake up when you're leading them to the slaughter. And I kind of thought that, you know, going against the tide of this like effort to like oust Rick. I mean, I hear you that like Rick was a huge distraction for her. This is why Tony kept Spencer till, now Ryman till the very end of Kagayan was like, he's

[00:20:53] like, as long as Spence, you know, Spencer is in this game, everyone's focused on him and they're not thinking about me as much. Um, and you know, it's, it's like a classic meat chill strategy. I think you're right. I mean, to me, she's still recovering from losing Ozzy where she puts so many eggs in the Ozzy basket. She like, you know, she sacrificed a lot of alliances to keep Ozzy. You know, she, she burned Steph because Steph wanted Ozzy out.

[00:21:20] She burned Christian who thought he was her ally because, you know, Christian wanted Ozzy out. And so like, she took all of these like sort of like second tier alliances and ended them because she was trying to preserve Ozzy. And then for Ozzy to kind of like get waylaid in this like really unfortunate twist, um, is just like, I think kind of was like killed her game. I think so much of it was based on having Ozzy right there next to, next to her.

[00:21:46] She seemed upset at the start of the episode where, uh, she was, uh, calling Ozzy some names and talking about how upset she was with Ozzy when she found out what Ozzy was doing. And so she really seemed to be very upset. I wonder if she wasn't thinking 100% clearly about what comes next. And I think that this move to take out Rizzo, I think that they could have pulled it off.

[00:22:12] If she has Tiffany and Jonathan on board, it seems like that, like you could have gotten Joe to write down a name that he doesn't want to write down if Tiffany and... But Rizzo's her ally. Like Rizzo's her number one ally. But Rizzo was not a good ally. I mean, Rizzo was... But she doesn't know that yet. He's been a good ally. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, we know that Rizzo's not a good ally, but like Rizzo's been a good ally and Rick is a bad ally. Rick is against her. Like, you know, I think like, you know, you're, I agree with you. Like I see this like game state that you're creating where like Rick is a huge distraction

[00:22:41] and Joe is focused on Rick. But like, and I think you're right. That said, if Tiffany doesn't win immunity here, um, so he doesn't go home here either. Right. Like they were all going to get Tiffany out. He goes home next. Oh, I agree with that. But I don't think there's any world here where Rick is, is like somehow like, is Rick going to make it all the way to four? Like, and like, you know, I think that this is... There's not enough numbers for them. Like eventually her and Tiffany, her two become like a, like a big enough, uh, group where

[00:23:11] they can just bring on one other person and have more control in the vote. I think that ultimately here, uh, to have just her and Tiffany at the final six, it was a very bad spot for them to be in where the other four people could be working together. But if she thinks, I just don't see, I don't think there is a path for her. Like if you assume that Rizzo is not loyal because you know, you're saying like, oh, Aubrey turned everybody around. I think everybody realizes Ceri's the biggest threat in this game. You know, I think you see Tiffany is unusually loyal.

[00:23:37] I think Tiffany, like the fact that Tiffany votes with Ceri, like that shows surprising loyalty. I don't think this was like Aubrey masterfully convincing everyone that Ceri was the hugest threat to win. Everybody knew, like Rizzo knew, you know, you, you, you know, you see Rizzo going to like every, like Rizzo's the one who's having these conversations, right? He's the one who we see talking to Jonathan saying, we got to get Ceri out now. Now's the time. Um, you know, Joe says like, obviously Ceri's the mastermind of this game. I don't think this was like some like unique like situation where like one like brilliant strategist somehow wakes up and sees that Ceri is running things.

[00:24:07] I think they all know Ceri is running things. And it's just a question of when, um, they, they take her out. I don't think there was a world where she's making it. I really, I never thought there was a world where Ceri was making it all the way to the end. It was a, there was a path. Uh, it was in more narrow path with Ozzy. No, I think even without Ozzy, I think that there was a, there was a path because I feel like that, that, that as long as the other four people after the finals, once you get down to six, as long as the other four people weren't going to necessarily get together,

[00:24:35] then as long as Joe and Rick were still in the game together, there was no group of four that could come together against Tiffany and Ceri. Well, what's it like, play this out for me. Like, let's say they get out Rizzo. Cause I don't agree with you. Let's say they take out Rizzo at the final seven. Then who's, what's, what's happening at the final six? I think that, I think that we have, um, maybe Rick is still with Tiffany and Ceri.

[00:25:03] And then that, uh, I mean, are Aubrey and Joe and Jonathan gonna vote and go for a three, three tie here? Or does Aubrey end up? So you're saying Joe, Aubrey's not, I don't think Aubrey's going into a tie vote. You think Aubrey, you think they would vote out Joe over Rick here? Like, there's no way that Tiffany is going to, Tiffany's going to vote out Rick. Right? Like, I don't think Ceri. Why is Tiffany so dead set on voting out Rick? Cause Rick is like, I think they're scared that Rick gets to the end and he's got, he's got this huge resume.

[00:25:31] Like if Rick can get to, but if Rick can get to four, then he's a, he's going to beat anybody but Ceri. Right. Cause he's good at fire too. Listen, I can't worry about this for Tiffany. You know, this was Tiffany's, I'm following Tiffany's idea. Okay. So what happens? You're saying it's six. At six, you're saying that Rick, Ceri and Tiffany and Aubrey get together and vote out Joe. Here's what I don't see that happening. Okay. You get rid of Rizzo.

[00:25:58] I get, I'm telling you at the final four, Joe and Rick are not getting on the same page to vote out either Tiffany or Ceri. I don't know what happens, but I think that Tiffany and Ceri are safe. But I don't think, I don't think they can get to the final four. Like, I don't think they can get past six. Like I certainly can't get past five. We're getting past six here. How? No, no. How? I mean, this is in six. Your version of six is Ceri, Rick, Tiffany and Aubrey are getting together to vote out Joe. I just don't think they would do that. Joe's not a threat to win. Okay. Fine.

[00:26:27] But I don't know exactly how it's happening at six. I'm telling you that Rick, Devins and Joe aren't voting together at the final six to take out Ceri or Tiffany, which they would need to. I, I, I agree with you. I think that everyone's voting together at the final six to vote out Rick. Maybe they vote out Aubrey. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, um, listen, um, I, I think that for, for Ceri, I think she needed to think a little bit more about, you know, keep it, trying to keep the big targets in the game.

[00:26:52] Cause eventually this, there were just ran out of big targets to go after and she became the, in, in true new era fashion, she became the biggest target left on the board and ultimately ends up being the person who gets voted out. Let's talk about Rick and Rick. I do feel like, and there, there's more to talk about, uh, with, with Ceri for sure. Um, but in terms of Rick, who we haven't talked about at all here, who also goes out in

[00:27:22] this episode, you know, it, it ends up being, um, kind of just a ho-hum exit for Rick. He has a great moment at tribal council, but I think that his exit, I think ends up being a, in true Rick Devins fashion, a more joyful celebration of what Rick Devins meant to this season. Yeah. I was so great. I mean, it really was, there was a very funny moment though, where he's like having a, I mean, not funny, a sad moment where he's having a breakdown in the hammock and it's like Joe who's right there. And he's like, Hmm. Rick's like, I don't know if I can do this, man.

[00:27:52] And Joe's like, okay, good to know. Like Joe of all people to be like, uh, you know, it's probably like, yeah, high five. Great. Thrilled to hear it. Um, yes, but very, very moving, you know, beautiful. I, I liked the whole thing about like stars. It just felt like very novelistic, you know, like, uh, I felt like a character in a novel who was about to die, you know, just like looking up at the stars and feeling like the souls of his, you know, lost friends and family working down on him. Yeah. Um, it was really beautiful, like beautiful Testament. You know, we certainly saw him working his butt off to like make it, you know, we saw him

[00:28:21] like getting up at the crack of dawn, um, to go look for idols. Um, very funny scene with Jonathan where he's looking for idols, but he can't see them because Jonathan's so big that he blocks out all the light. Um, and then like, yeah, he just like, he hustled and he didn't stop. And he, you know, I felt like he handled it perfectly. He wasn't like throwing out names willy nilly, but when, when, um, uh, Tiffany came to him with Rizzo's name, he happily jumped on board. Um, and then just generally I thought like it was a great sendoff for him. Yeah. This game for Rick Devins here.

[00:28:51] And I'm not sure we don't know if the players were not good at finding idols or the idols were not hidden on the beach. Uh, but this did not play to Rick Devins hands. Rick Devins ends up coming across the fake idol at tribal council. And then he ends up also of getting the idol from Mr. Beast, but in the post merge game, there have been, and correct me if I'm wrong, zero idols hidden on the beach back at camp, which is a major disadvantage to Rick Devins.

[00:29:22] Yeah. And Christian also sort of like painted him with the idol finder brush, which I actually think really hurt him. Right. Like the fact that Christian kind of like put the target on him saying that he was the one who found the idol that made its way to Aubrey. Sure. But I think that comes baked in with Rick Devins that he's an idol finder. I know, but like, he's not like, but like truly the only idol he found was the one that was like presented in a suitcase at tribal council, you know, like Rick didn't find any idols. Yeah, but he found three or four in his previous season. I think that he's sort of listed on it. But I just think like, yeah, no, I agree with you, but I just think that really hurt him.

[00:29:50] Like this like idea that Rick had mythical idol finding powers was this sort of nebulous threat that hung over everybody, I think really contributed to his ouster. He was strategically isolated and there was nothing to really fear of. He wasn't like killing it in the immunity challenges, although he did win for his first season, but like he wasn't this season. And like, it was only this fear that like, he's going to find something, but he truly, he didn't find anything all season long. Yeah, he found a fake idol. I think, yeah. So I think that, you know, that reputation ended up really hurting him because that's

[00:30:20] the danger of Rick here. Yeah. I, you know, again, I don't think that his reputation like really in this season was that much different than his reputation coming into the season. But I think that he just, the type of game that is, let's not in this Rick Devins game. And Rick articulated this so well when he talked about how, you know, I came into this game and I wanted to play this like different game and alliances. And now here I am back being the old Rick Devins, but that's who he meant to be, is meant to be.

[00:30:49] And I love the line he said with Mr. Beast when he said, I was born to flip this coin. And you really got to see, I think it was a really beautiful thing for Rick that he got to be the truest form of Rick Devins here in this season. Yeah, that really was such a perfect, iconic, I mean, he was ready to jump out of his seat as soon as this coin flip thing was announced.

[00:31:14] And to have this moment, to flip the coin for it to hit, obviously, you know, if it hadn't hit, it would have been a less exciting moment. It would have been very sad. But, you know, for it to hit was just such a pure encapsulation of the fun and the risk taking and the big swings that I think kind of have really... The swashbuckler. Swashbuckler. I love that. Yeah. Do you think that we will see Rick Devins return to Fiji and see the shooting stars once again? I imagine so.

[00:31:42] I mean, this has been a great, you know, certainly if nothing else, this has been a great advertisement for... I hope I see him in Scotland, you know, looking at the cloudy nights in Scotland. Yeah. Rick Devins would be a great faithful, that he would come into the round table and he would come in with theories and that he has the opportunity to also fall very flat on his face where he's going to come in and play hard and throw out names and could potentially be wrong. Could go either way for Rick Devins, but Rick Devins doesn't care about that.

[00:32:12] Yeah. He's going to play hard. He's going to have fun. Like, he just brings joy to the whole proceedings. He doesn't mind being against everybody because I think that's actually like a very underrated skill as a human and TV character is that when everyone's against you, it's like very demoralizing. It's depressing just as a human. And you see people kind of like wither in that. You know, how many like weepy confessionals have we had? Have I had? Just because, you know, everybody's been against me or like, you know, been against them. And like, everyone's like, I can't do anything. My game is absolutely hamstrung. Like nobody's working with me.

[00:32:43] For Rick, he finds the fun in it. He finds the humor. He's quick witted. He's got singers. And so I think that's what, you know, that's a, that's like a very rare, wonderful quality as a human. Yeah. I'm really going to co-sign that Rick Devins for the traders. And I think he's going to do really well because I think that he's going to come out and he's going to throw names out. And I think it's kind of important for him to be wrong on the traders because I think that he has an opportunity to be a great candidate for something that I've been talking about for some time of the intentional rap report of that.

[00:33:09] If he comes into the round table and is like throwing out names and then get somebody banished and then the traders are not going to murder him, they'll keep him around. You can't be too right and be a faithful. You got to be kind of wrong if you want to succeed as a faithful. And I think that Rick could come out there and really play hard and have fun and be really great at that. So really fun thing for Rick. Yeah. Great. Great for Rick. All right. Let's talk about Aubrey here.

[00:33:36] And Aubrey has a very interesting night once again. And Aubrey's been telling us in the shows for the last couple of weeks about, hey, something's coming. I'm getting all my ducks in a row. Nobody sees what I'm doing, but it's coming. You'll see. And I'm sort of laying in the weeds. And we get this first tonight at the Rick Devens vote where it's Aubrey is the one who is hearing about this plan to vote out Rizzo.

[00:34:05] And it's like, boy, Rizzo is really getting on everybody's nerves. Last time I didn't sit with the right people in the final three. But what if I did sit with Rizzo at the final three? Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, that's a great call. You know, one of the most important things is not whether people love how you played the game. It's just that they dislike the people next to you more. Whether they personally dislike them, whether they don't respect their games as much, whether they just like see them as this sort of goofy kid who held an idol all season. So I think that's like it's a good strategy for Aubrey. Yeah.

[00:34:34] And Aubrey seems to have a little bit of a finger on the pulse of what's going on. Stephen, I know you have been a astute edit reader for many years. Is it that Aubrey is seeing the board better than anybody else? Or are we seeing the board from Aubrey's POV? And that's why it seems especially that Aubrey is seeing what's happening better than anybody else.

[00:35:04] Can I read you something I tweeted last week? No? Yeah, I think I know what it is and I don't know if everybody wants to go there with you. I just, I thought, well, are we talking about edit here or not? Well, I think that... I think being... Aubrey is getting editorial credit for Ceres Ouster and I think that's because we're seeing Aubrey being built up as a really big character and a big player, right?

[00:35:34] Like, so like, to me, that's like less about like, you know, that's always the case going into the finals where like the people who are being built into big characters and their stories really being emphasized, they will get the credit, the editorial credit for like the big moves of the season. I, watching the episode, we saw Aubrey, the first person we saw say Ceres name was Aubrey. The... But then, and it's to Rizzo. But then it's Rizzo we see actually doing the legwork, right?

[00:36:02] Rizzo who then goes to Jonathan. And Rizzo's the one who kind of like actually marshals the vote. And I just do not believe that Aubrey's the only person on this tribe of six people who had the thought, oh, let's get Ceres out. You know, like we're at six. One person is far and away the favorite to win. Everyone knows she's the favorite to win. She's been running strategic circles around us. There's literally six people. One of them is immune. One of them is me. You know, like, so there's only four people you can talk about.

[00:36:31] So, like, I don't think there's only one person who's thinking of Shrefield's name. And we're just seeing one. Rizzo did do a lot. Can I give like one? I am getting like sort of a vibe. And I don't want, I'm hesitant to say this because it's so damning. But a little bit throughout this season, I felt like things happen. And then we have Aubrey taking credit for them. You know, like where we, even after the Mr. Beast Tribal Council, you had Aubrey saying, Rick did exactly what I needed him to do. I'm like, what? Like, that was Rick's move.

[00:36:58] Like, that wasn't the, it's a little bit giving like Christy from Australian Survivor season one, where like no matter what happened, she was like, these things happened. And that's why I'm a mastermind. Yeah. Well, I mean, Aubrey is saying these things in the real time. Whereas to go back to Australian Survivor, you know, it's one thing for somebody to just claim all these things at the final tribal council. But at least like we have. No, but Christy did it along the way. We have the record in the real time of, you know, what's happening.

[00:37:25] So I think that Aubrey also in this episode, I think that Rizzo did a lot, but I think that Aubrey also was, you know, doing just as much as Rizzo was with that. But I believe that she was the one who was going to Jonathan to start to say about how Rizzo was right.

[00:37:50] That she's the one telling that then they break the news to Rizzo about how it was Tiffany who was saying all these things about Rizzo. So she seems like she's working on Joe really hard. I'm sorry. I'm a little lost. Aubrey, and let me just look at my notes. So I want to make sure that I am not giving any misinformation.

[00:38:11] So at the start of the second tribal council, day 23, Tiffany's with Jonathan and Aubrey. And Tiffany is pissed off about Rizzo. Aubrey tells us that Tiffany wants Rizzo out. Aubrey is concerned about Tiffany in the end. She gets the ball rolling to really get Tiffany out at the final six. She says that Tiffany's Michelle part two.

[00:38:39] And so she's really working on Tiffany. And then it's Rizzo who tells Sari about the plan, which then ultimately is going to turn into a Sari plan. Yeah. It's Tiffany who tells Sari about it. Right, right, right. It turns into a Sari plan. Yeah. And then similarly, I mean, I guess, you know, we see Aubrey be the first person to mention Sari. And then it is Rizzo who kind of like is the one who then marshals. And I think Aubrey does a great job of fending off.

[00:39:06] And Rizzo's the one person who knows all of the information where then Tiffany and Sari start to deduce. Oh, okay. Well, it was going to be you. I know it's going to be me now. But I can't tell anybody that Rizzo told me it was you. I'm going to – I know I can manipulate Jonathan. And this is the Sari traders coming out. Like, okay, I'm going to go put poison in Jonathan's ear about Aubrey and say that I know about the plan because of Aubrey.

[00:39:35] And then Jonathan's like, oh, that Aubrey. We got to get rid of her. But Aubrey does a good job of fending that off with Joe where she's like, Joe, come on. I didn't do that. I swear to God. Like, don't you see what Sari's doing here? And Rizzo doesn't do anything. He just keeps his mouth shut. Right. That's interesting. Yeah, I know. Look, I mean, it very much seemed like it was sort of a, you know, group. I mean, again, like, I just can't believe that there was – this is not like one person somehow like getting this vote over the finish line.

[00:40:04] You know, this was like – I think this was like pretty clearly a group consensus. But obviously there's always stuff that, you know, that complicates it. Let me go back to Aubrey for a second because – I just don't like when I feel like someone's getting, you know, someone's getting a lot of credit for things that like – I don't like being force fed a narrative. I get that. But I was thinking about Aubrey and I thought about Marianne. You know, I think that Marianne is the new era winner that really was the proof of concept of the new era.

[00:40:34] I think that Marianne came in and was this big character who came along and had this very interesting ride. Tell me if this reminds you of anybody in this season. Marianne is sort of depicted as somebody who maybe isn't in the best footing with her starting tribe. And she gets an idol early on and then she's in a little bit of trouble at the merge where maybe it looks like that she's at the bottom. She's really in hot water.

[00:41:02] She ends up at a certain moment flushing her idol in front of everybody. And Marianne is somebody who popularized the theory of you really want to be – at the final eight, you kind of want to be sixth in the pecking order. And that's really right where you want to be. And then at the final six, you take out the biggest threat in the game, the strategic mastermind that everybody is looking at. And then you get to the end and you give one hell of a final tribal council speech.

[00:41:31] And that is the Marianne path to victory. And if anybody is really playing that Marianne game of sort of like, hey, lay in the weeds, stay close to the bottom, knock out the big target right at the end, stand there at the end and give a moving, really emotional speech about personal triumph at the end. Like, could that not be Aubrey? No, I've made the comparison too between Marianne's edit and Aubrey's edit.

[00:41:59] You know, and people have said Aubrey seemed so mopey at the start and she got so much negativity at the start. So did Marianne. Marianne had a whole episode about how annoying she was. She had like confessionals from every single other tribe member about how she was annoying them. Not mopey, but it was like negative, but negatively, negatively coded, right? Not mopey, but like, you know, she was being shown in a negative light. And then she has this like big, big, you know, sort of like, yeah, this sort of big explosive kind of end game.

[00:42:26] We certainly had a lot of confessionals from Aubrey explaining how she needs an explosive end game, how, you know, heard a lot about Michelle. A lot about Michelle. Michelle, by the way, has had like a bigger edit than, you know, Jenna Lewis has. Like we've seen more of Michelle. And just to really flesh this out, the Survivor 42 of it all. I mean, could Joe not be the Mike Turner sitting there with Marianne? And is Riz God the new Romeo? Yeah, no, I mean, I think, I mean, a Joe, Rizzo, Aubrey, you know, final tribal, I think is a very like,

[00:42:55] because we've certainly seen adequate reason why people are not going to vote for Joe. So, um, I honestly didn't like, Rizzo feels like, he's played a good game. Yeah, Rizzo's played a really good game. Like, I think that like Rizzo's game like is hurt because I think Aubrey correctly identifies the child, like Rizzo's flaws, which is that people are going to see him as this sort of like kid and not want to give this like somewhat cocky kid like a million bucks. I think that's exactly right, you know?

[00:43:25] Um, and her going in as a mom, four-time player, like now she's got like a big, you know, one big head that she's kind of, uh, you know, and maybe she tries to take credit for Ozzy too. Um, that's probably, that's going to be enough sitting next to Rizzo. Yeah. To speak on Rizzo a little bit, I don't know if it's necessarily that people look at him as cocky. We see that in the edit, but I don't think that necessarily is how he comes up. Except when he like dangles the idol in front of people and then doesn't play it. They don't, people tend to not like that.

[00:43:53] It did, it was a thing in Survivor 49 and it seems to be a thing here in Survivor 50. But the thing that he doesn't do well, and he's so astute and, and, uh, adept at playing the game and like knowing how the pieces work and he sees the board so well, but he doesn't do, and this came back to in the beginning of the, when he's like lecturing Colby on like, yeah, we don't really, you know, do work. We just sleep on the ground.

[00:44:20] We don't do anything like the, the survivors, especially like the people who like are from like the, the old era. But I think the new era players too, they just, they don't respect that a lot. And I think that this, there, there's like these little like fundamentals of like being a team player around the camp that it really does mean a lot to people. And he's just looked at as somebody who is a little, I don't want to say spoiled, but

[00:44:49] just that he's sort of just like on scholarship at, to some degree of he's just here and he's just doing the game stuff, but he's not really participating in the, the day to day, just, uh, sustaining of the camp. I don't agree with, I think that's right. That the non-doing camp stuff is definitely hurting him. I do think they probably perceive him as cocky. I mean, we saw a whole scene where he was talking about how great his game was in 4049, right? Like he's definitely like a little bit, got some of the braggadocio.

[00:45:18] Um, and I, I think that's kind of, has been borne out by some of the exits we've seen. There's just this sort of like, you know, and, and also, you know, I think that maybe being so tightly aligned with Ciri is going to hurt him where some of his best work has been through the lens of this, you know, Ciri's wizard of Oz. And I think like, because it's with Ciri and Ozzy, nobody's thinking of this kid who they never saw play before. So they have no kind of outside conception of him. They're not thinking of him as like this like big player in the game.

[00:45:47] They're thinking of him as like this like random kid who showed up on the beach that they never, they didn't know who's like playing with these two legends and tagging along with the, with the big dogs. But like, they don't, I don't think they see him yet as a big dog himself. And so they'll probably inherently give him less credit for what he did. I mean, we've seen him in every, so many alliances. We've seen him like building votes, um, you know, holding onto his idol. There's obviously like some question of like, if nobody's voting for you, does it matter? You know, the Xander of it all, if nobody's voting for you, does it matter if you're holding onto your idol?

[00:46:16] But here we certainly saw Tiffany coming for him. Uh, you know, we saw a lot of people pushing him to play his idol. So I feel like that kind of, kind of increased a notch in my book where now there is pressure on him to play his idol and he's still holding onto it, guaranteeing himself a place in the final four. Um, I think, I think like, I think he's playing a good game and like, you know, that's something he said a couple of weeks ago at travel council. If you want to, at the Stephanie travel council, you know, if you want to make a vote to happen,

[00:46:45] a vote happen, you make it happen. And I feel like we have seen that from him. You know, we've seen him managing Joe. We've seen him like working beautifully, like across all of the different alliances. And, um, I feel like his game gets a little bit of short shrift simply because it's just like under the shadow of how great game Sari is playing. But he has played a very good under the radar social game. He's played a really good game for sure. Uh, but he said it himself, but like, it doesn't matter if you're sixth or it doesn't matter if you're fourth.

[00:47:10] It feels like that this is a game that as impressive as it's been, it feels like at no point that this could have been a winning game for him. Yeah. But I think that's all about perception. Like, I think like, you know, Jeff had this line, right? Like a couple of seasons ago, like there's someone who showed up on this beach and there was no, nothing that person could do to win. And I think that might be Rizzo here. Like they're like, he's always going to be, you know, I, I, I was, um, in a podcast, uh, early a couple of days ago and I was like, you know, he and Sam Phelan are the same age,

[00:47:37] but like Sam reads 10 years older, like as like a 35 year old and Rizzo reads 10 years younger as like a 15 year old. I just think like with this older group of contestants, I think he's almost drawing dead. This was a tough road for him no matter what. And maybe he's playing for the third time where we come back and we have the ultimate Riz God redemption when he plays for the third time. And Jeff said, it won't be too long before you see returning players again. Yeah. Well, I, I mean, that's, I definitely think where they're going to bring Rizzo back again.

[00:48:06] And maybe this time he'll play as idol. Yeah. The third, yeah. Three times Tres Leches. Yeah. Nine Leches. Nine Leches. Steven, let's talk about Tiffany who we saw in a little bit of sharper focus of that. Aubrey called her that she could be like the Michelle, that she's beloved. Everybody really enjoys her company. We see her winning immunity at the final six, which really could have been like four in a row

[00:48:35] for her had it not been for, you know, her picking up her foot too late in the challenge last week. I mean, that like, think about like a millisecond away from we would have gone just like all time Tiffany immunity run. Instead, she wins immunity here at the final six. I love this for Tiffany personally. You know, it's so fun to have the returning players be back because there's so much legacy and lore around all of everything that happens.

[00:49:03] And so it just in the, in the challenges tonight. So you had Joe doing the challenge at the final seven. He wins immunity, the same challenge he wins in survivor 40. Remember the fly lands on his head in slow motion. So this is Joe's challenge. And then here in survivor 40, uh, we have in, at the final six, the arch puzzle. And, and now we, and we know Joe had this also in survivor 40.

[00:49:28] This was the got fun, but trale, uh, that this was when Joe, so we know Joe is going to struggle with this challenge. And here's Tiffany also, who this is part of her legacy also, because if you remember back in survivor 46, that there was a two hour second episode and they just voted out Jelinski and they had to do the big arch puzzle. And this was the one that her tribe was just a disaster and, and they couldn't get it going.

[00:49:57] And they did the arch puzzle forever. It looked like the, maybe they would never finish. Um, and so for Tiffany to, to win the arch puzzle as an individual immunity after it was such a struggle for her in survivor 46, uh, that was kind of cool to see. Ultimately we know this was a slow motion car wreck tonight where you knew that, Hey, the one thing that's really bad for Sari is if Tiffany ends up winning immunity.

[00:50:19] You had all the players conspiring sort of like it, like in survivor 46 against Maria, where you had multiple people ganging up to try to make sure that Tiffany wasn't going to be the one who won immunity. And I thought that that was also pretty interesting. Did you have any thoughts on that in terms of people trying to help each other with the word scramble? This didn't, excuse me, this didn't bother me to the same degree that the Maria did one because in that one, I think like, didn't like Liz actually go and get puzzle pieces.

[00:50:49] Yeah, that, that was, that really bothered me. Who, uh, did, uh, became a mom two times over, uh, and on mother's day this past weekend, baby number two for Kenzie. Yeah. Um, but I thought this was fine. And, and also particularly fun cause it didn't work out because it blew up in their faces, you know, probably if any of them had just kind of focused on their own thing instead of, you know, trying to help out Joe and Jonathan with this, uh, with this spelling puzzle. Um, it would have worked out a lot better for them. Yeah.

[00:51:16] It was kind of unlucky for Sari and Tiffany that they seem to be on the ends and then all the people who were working together were in the middle, but ultimately it does work out for Tiffany where she ends up winning immunity. And then ultimately she comes through this. She has lost Sari now in the game that do you think is there, it does, is there a path here for Tiffany or is she out at five?

[00:51:40] I, I mean, I, again, like I think, first of all, I think Tiffany's played like what a, what a game, like what a comeback for Tiffany, you know, who literally there was like a social media uprising because she was so under edited in the beginning has like kind of like arisen to become. She had less confessionals than Zac Brown. Yeah. Um, has arisen to become like one of the big characters of the season in some ways seems to actually be playing the game that like the, the story is telling us and Aubrey's playing where she kind of like became this like big power player.

[00:52:06] But I do think she might be being under the radar mobbed by Aubrey where she just was a little bit, sorry, I was really, I was really excited about that. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, the, the, you know, where she managed, she was like the under the radar player, but then she, her star rose a little too soon. Right. Like, and so much of these games, as Cochran famously said, is timing. Um, and like, yeah, yeah.

[00:52:32] Um, and like just be, you don't want to be the threat at the final six. You want to be the threat at the final four. And I think that she, she's just like a little bit too much, too hot, like, you know, but, but very fun. And, and, and I think, you know, absolutely speaking of returnees, I think merits another, another run from her as well. Yeah, absolutely. Tiffany was my winner pick. I feel like a little vindicated that, uh, I don't know if she's going to go the distance, but I feel like that she's right there and super close.

[00:53:00] And I just feel like that Aubrey has her too much in her sights. Like, I just don't see, uh, how she, unless she wins immunity. I'm not sure, like, I think that she could have to comp out to get to the end where if she wins immunity at five and then gets to four and then at four, we'll have to see if it's going to be a fire making challenge or not.

[00:53:18] It does feel though, that she has like inherited the Sari aura where if she gets to the end, I do think that Tiffany beats anybody out of anybody who's left in the game. Yeah. And she could, right? Like she could win out with her. I would say, I think it'll be close between her and Jonathan. I think that Jonathan is the other person who has a lot of, uh, win equity still left. And I think that that would be a real, uh, dividing line of that.

[00:53:47] You'd really have like coming back to like the mayor of Ponderosa angle with D really stopping for, uh, Tiffany and trying to really whip up the votes for Tiffany. Whereas you'd have like the, the coach and Chrissy and Stephanie's of the world really trying to whip up the votes for Jonathan. So that really would be a pretty interesting showdown in the final tribal council.

[00:54:11] Yeah. I was curious. I mean like from my, you know, watching the season, I've said consistently that I think Jonathan's playing a really strong game. It was interesting to hear Sari say, Oh, he's like super, I get, you know, he's someone I can just like manipulate really easily. Um, I mean, in some ways to me, that's always seemed like a strength of Jonathan's is like, he's doing the legwork, right? Like almost more than anyone this season. Yeah, exactly. Like we see him like building consensus, going to these people, you know, even this week when, when, um, uh, someone proposes,

[00:54:42] when Tiffany proposes Rizzo to Jonathan, Jonathan's like, we got to run this by Sari. You know, he wants to make sure all the key stakeholders have signed the documents and given the thumbs up and then like send the vote through. And I do feel like that's a very classic old school type of game. The person who is like bringing all the allies together to build a consensus vote. Yeah. I've really liked the way he's played throughout, but it was interesting to me to hear kind of Sari neg him.

[00:55:05] Um, yeah, I think that, you know, the edit has certainly favored Aubrey in terms of what we've seen. But I think that as I, in this video, I mean, I thought that Jonathan had the second best chance to win the game. And I think that if we're just looking at the players and pieces that are on the board, I do think that Jonathan has the best chance to get to the final three, unless that there is this uprising where, uh, people can turn, like you need at some point to turn Joe against Jonathan.

[00:55:35] I feel like, I feel like that Tiffany is the likely person to go out at five. And then when you get down to four, I don't really see the scenario where they get Jonathan out, where even if it's a, if it's a vote, I can't imagine that Rizzo and Joe are both going to be against Jonathan. So Aubrey seems to have had a pretty good relationship with Jonathan. So it's, it's hard for me to see the path to take Jonathan out of the game.

[00:56:03] But at four, I think you just vote for the person who you think is the biggest threat to win. Right. Or, um, you know, you just, you don't vote. You're right. You don't take them to, to, to the end. Do you think Joe would vote against Jonathan? I feel like every, is Joe really going to throw his game away? If he, well, so five, we agree that Tiffany, so there's no vote at four, right? Or there might be a vote at four. There might be a vote at four. I don't think there's gonna be a vote at four. Yeah. Maybe there's a vote at four. What do you think? Is there going to be a vote at four? That's apparently, it's one of the three things left for the fans to.

[00:56:31] Based on how the fans have voted, I think that there will be fire at final four. I really, I think that like in our world, people do not like fire at the final four. I do think that it, it plays to like, oh, they should, you can't make fire. You don't deserve to win the game. I think that there are a lot of people who watch the show and have that point of view. I wonder, could there be, what if potentially, and I've talked about Survivor 42 a lot earlier in this podcast, could Jonathan lose in fire again? Could we see potentially?

[00:57:01] Well, that's what I was just going to say. Like Jonathan lost fire. Like maybe Joe beats, Joe beats Jonathan. Yeah. I mean, like that's totally, Mike Turner beat him. That wouldn't that be a, you know. A firefighter again? Yeah. There's really the history, you know, come in full circle. So I. We might be Survivor 42 rewatched this summer. Yeah. It's really very thematically appropriate. Yeah. So I think that that's, you know, an interesting scenario for Jonathan where I said he was the player that had the second best chance to win.

[00:57:31] And I think that like this was, I think if you were looking for a Jonathan win, I think that this was a really good night for Jonathan just looking at the pieces that are left in the game. Yeah. But if you look at the jury, I mean, I don't know, like it's, it's hard to say. It depends on who's up against Jonathan. In that Sari said, Hey, I'm, I can manipulate Jonathan. And then you saw Jonathan really hook, line and sinker. Take the bait. Now we go for it.

[00:57:56] Maybe if you're Jonathan and you're sitting there, uh, Mr. Rob, Mr. Steven, I was just telling Miss Sari that I believed her, but I really didn't. I really knew we were really always voting out Sari. And, and, and, you know, to that we say, perhaps I, we don't, we don't know. Uh, we can only, that's my feeling. Like, would it be insane to see a conversation with any two players or where Mullen's like, no, it's not Aubrey's fault. You're responsible. You know, we're voting you out. Like that would be crazy.

[00:58:23] I think that Jonathan, um, and, uh, Jonathan is talking to Joe about Aubrey. And if he really, it's one thing, if he was telling Sari, okay, you're right. Aubrey's got to go. But then it seemed like that he was trying to talk to Joe about that. They, that Aubrey is, is the rat and is trying to, and that they should get rid of Aubrey. It did seem like he really did believe that. I, yeah, I don't know. I don't think there's any world where they're voting on Aubrey over Sari here.

[00:58:50] I think that's just like, I mean, like, I feel like that's, that's a story that's being told to us. I think that that was too late at the final six. I think that the, I think that the, the, the move needed to be at the final seven. I thought that Sari had a valiant effort at the final six. And I thought that that was brilliant to try to turn things back around on Aubrey, some real survivor jujitsu that was happening. Ultimately it just, she's going to come up short. She doesn't have the numbers anymore. Yeah.

[00:59:20] Should we talk about Joe? Yeah. Let's talk about Joe. Yeah. Love Joe. Joe. Joe. Joe's so interesting. Steven, I made a video, uh, talking about this also this week where that Joe is such an interesting figure in survivor history where that Joe is the prototypical survivor hero. He's a firefighter. He's a family man. He works hard. He's a provider. He does all the things that you would expect from a hero on survivor.

[00:59:49] But in this season, in this clash of styles versus Rick Devins, he's really been painted and put into this corner where that Rick Devins is the person who epitomized. Now that's how you do it on survivor. And Joe is kind of, uh, being a hero mogged by Rick Devins, who's getting this wonderful edit and this story about how Rick Devins is laying it all on the line and is going for it and is having fun.

[01:00:15] And Joe's been kind of a sourpuss in this season where he's not having fun coming back and playing survivor again. Yeah. It's so over the top. What's so funny is that, I mean, so much of survivor 48 was all about how amazing Joe was and what a great guy. I mean, it was truly like survivor Joe. Right. And that's what we all objected to at the time was it just felt like this one character and his amazing virtues was just being relentlessly beat over our heads.

[01:00:40] And, you know, then I do think, I have not rewatched the season, but I do wonder if it will benefit from rewatch. But anyway, it's so interesting to see him just like have such a much more negative, like, like almost uniformly negative edit this season where we've seen so many people complaining about Joe and how he plays the game. Like Sariq, you know, complaining about how she's sick and tired of having to babysit Joe. So, you know, she, among, among many others. So I feel bad for him. Like how, like how, what a bummer to constantly be like, you know, have that ride with this

[01:01:09] season, but it's so funny, Steven, because a year ago we would sit here on this podcast and I don't know if we were in agreement or not, but I know how I felt. I was like, Hey, if Joe gets to the end, he's winning. Joe cannot get to the, they're like, listen, that Kyle, if Kyle wants to win, he's got to vote out Joe. That Joe is 100% winning this game. If he gets to the end and then he didn't. Yeah. And now I kind of feel the exact opposite. I feel like Joe is 100% losing this game. If he gets to the end. Is Joe going to win?

[01:01:38] Is Joe going to win? It's going to reverse it. That would be something. Yeah. But yeah. Honestly, a Joe win would be sort of like bleakly satisfying. Yeah. It would be interesting, but Joe has a chance to do that. Not since, you know, Amanda Kimmel and Russell Hance has a chance to be a two-time losing finalist. Yeah. Yeah. I got to say though, I mean, Rizzo back-to-back season. I mean, so Russell did back-to-back season runs. This was obviously not back-to-back for Joe. Amanda too, but it did back-to-back season runs.

[01:02:09] Rizzo getting to four back-to-back or five, you know, I mean, he's getting to four. He's getting to four back-to-back, right? So that's pretty freaking impressive. He's nine days off in between. Yeah. That's, that's something. That like, you know, three cheers for Rizzo. Yeah. Hip, hip, hooray. Hip, hip, hooray for the Riz God. Okay. Yeah. Steven, are you ready to hand out any awards here tonight? I've got this Emmy here for astounding. All right. Let's do it. Let's do it. Here we go.

[01:02:38] Let me give you, give you your intro. Okay. Here we go. All right. Steven presented by national bestselling author, Steven Fishback. To national bestselling author, Rob Sestranino. Or with national bestselling author, Rob Sestradino. Yeah. So let's talk about it, Rob. I got two choices for you. You wrote the forward for my book.

[01:03:06] So you were a two-time national bestselling author. I said two times. I've got two X. That's amazing. Multi bestselling author, Steven Fishback. So I have two options for you. I think I know which way you're going to go. And I really am wringing my hands about it. On the one hand, on the one hand that I'm wringing, we have Aubrey. I feel like this episode really supported an Aubrey Fishy.

[01:03:33] We certainly have Aubrey being the person to throw out Ceri's name here. We have a little bit of her kind of like bringing that home. She's the decoy target. She ultimately wins in this little battle with Ceri. And so Ceri's the biggest player of the season. So like you can certainly see. And you're honestly, you kind of like went a little bit ways further to convincing me that it should be Aubrey in terms of like her, the other stuff with Tiffany that you mentioned previously. Yeah, whatever it was.

[01:04:03] It sounded good. So I do feel like we've got, yeah. This is going viral on Instagram. I do think Aubrey has a lot, you know, Aubrey is presented to us here as the person who initiated this Ceri vote. And I think that would, you know, justify getting a Fishy. I want to go with a potential Dark Horse. I'm going to present to you a potential Dark Horse candidate and get your perspective. I'm a little, I'm still a little like, I kind of gave last week's Fishy to Aubrey,

[01:04:31] partially because she hadn't had one, where I did think it was really between her and Jonathan. And I kind of regretted that because I felt like Jonathan was the one who really kind of whipped the votes to get Ozzy out. Aubrey at the start of this episode says like, hey, I was the one who got Ozzy out. This was my information. This is my move. Jonathan also like, you know, taking credit for that move. Here, I'm wondering if it's really Rizzo's move, you know, to get Ceri out. He's the one who ultimately betrays Ceri. He's the one we see, you know, talking to Jonathan and potentially like building the social

[01:05:00] forces that ultimately lead to Ceri's ouster. I don't really believe that any one person would be like the one to be like, oh, Ceri. Like this is a lightning bolt moment of like, yes, we can vote for Ceri. Like I truly think that they probably all are having this thought. Rizzo doesn't play his idol again in spite of like actually getting a lot of social pressure to play it, which I think is becoming more and more impressive. Like he's guaranteed himself a spot in the final four. I don't know if I've given Rizzo a fishie at the season, maybe earlier. I'm not sure.

[01:05:30] But he's played a really good social game and, you know, he's managed to outlast both of his allies in Ceri's Wizard of Oz and somehow is right there at the end. I feel like maybe the Charlie episode, he might've gotten the fishy earlier in the season. Oh, probably did. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. So if the choice is between Aubrey and Rizzo that I think that it's fair what you're saying that the Ceri move to take out Ceri at the final six could have co-ownership.

[01:05:58] But I think in this night of Survivor, in these 90 minutes, I think that you saw in the first hour that Aubrey seems to have identified that if I keep Rizzo around, that is maybe a winning combination for me when I get to the final three. And the fishy is really about two things. It's about, sure, who made the move of the night, but also who best improved their position overall towards winning the game.

[01:06:27] So if you're saying, hey, it's a tie between Aubrey and Rizzo for this move to take out Ceri, the person who I think really improved their chances to win the game the most tonight, I think is Aubrey. And that's why I think Aubrey deserves a fishy. All right. You heard it here. I co-signed that. I think that's persuasively argued. Fishy for Aubrey, her second fishy. I just have a little bit of resistance to what I feel like is a story that I'm being kind of, you know, force fed.

[01:06:55] But I, yeah, exactly. Which has nothing to do with Aubrey, by the way. Like, I think Aubrey's like playing a really good game and she's playing the only game she could. You know, she started off on a really rocky footing. She has kind of like picked up allies where she could. She's like integrated herself into this group when out of the gate, she was like initially the, you know, universal target, right? Genevieve had managed to marshal everybody against her.

[01:07:22] She got a few lucky breaks with like the blood moon that ousted Genevieve when she flipped to the group with Rick and Christian. But she's really like managed to integrate herself, like pick up allies along the way and be a part of these key decisive moves. And now I think to your point is thinking about her final three. She's not what's the only move I can make right now. She's thinking like, how do I set up an actual win? Because that's where I fell short before. So I think you're right that Aubrey deserves the fishy.

[01:07:48] And I think in a 24 person season where the, these votes are happening kind of haphazardly where I think that the top line thought is like, wait, hold on. Who's the biggest threat here? I think that she's really positioned herself. And I can't say if it was completely by design that this was the game she was trying to play. But I think that she is set up exceptionally well where she's just not at the top of the mind for anybody in terms of like, who do we need to get out next?

[01:08:18] And eventually there's just going to run out of people. And the person who can then make a compelling pitch for why they should win is going to be the person who wins a 24 person season. Yeah. Rob, do you think there's anything to starting tribes here? We have two people left from original Kahlo, which is Tiffany and Jonathan. We have two people left from original Vatu, which are Rizzo and Aubrey. And then we have Joe, the only person left from Sela. Does that make Joe the swing vote between these two? That's so funny.

[01:08:45] Go back to like the episode two when everybody there is like, oh my God, Joe. He's like getting in our way. He's being so annoying. He's not playing the game we wanted to play. Well, guess what? Everybody at Sela, you're all gone. Joe is the only person left. How about that? It's truly, it was like this like stacked strategic tribe. Yeah. Christian, Emily, Ozzy, Sari, Rick Devins, only Joe is left. How about that? Good for Joe. Crazy.

[01:09:15] Good for Joe. Trust me. Don't tell me what I'm doing. Okay. I'll teach you all how to play Survivor. Sari and Christian and Ozzy and Rick Devins and Emily and Savannah. And okay, listen, I know what's going on. All right. Steven, the world of Survivor is sad at this hour. Rick Devins is gone. Sari is gone.

[01:09:41] We need to heal the Survivor world. We need something to bring people together in this dark time. And I think that there's only one thing that can heal the pain of Survivor Nation. Do you have a guess? Is it your book? Is it your book? It's not my book. It's not my book. You thought it was going to be my book. Well, I don't know. I don't think you would ever like pitch yourself that hard. But I was like, where's he going with this? I don't know.

[01:10:10] I would not. But I did want a book signing in Raleigh here with my great friend, Jesse Lopez. And there was a question from the audience. He said, Rob, can you please bring back the wand off? And so for season 15, after the season is over, not this week, okay, the last week of May, it's official. Get your wand offs ready.

[01:10:36] Josh Wigler is standing by, and we will, to celebrate season 50, the last week of May, I am greenlighting a season 50 wand off. Wow. That's big. Big. That's big. Okay? Wow. All right. So that is coming up the week after the Survivor finale. Also, we are going to be having a little bit of a different schedule.

[01:11:03] I'm going out to be with the Glitterati and Hobnob on the red carpet at the Survivor 50 finale coming up next week. Steven is also traveling, and so we will have a special Survivor know-it-alls for you after the episode with some fill-in hosts. I don't know. Is this all locked in, Sam? Can I announce where, what we're doing yet? Okay. Okay. Sam says, don't say yet. Okay.

[01:11:31] So stay tuned for our coverage of the Survivor 50 finale, and you can send in your wand off to robhaswebsite.com slash wand off. And Steven, you've been so kind to mention it, but the book is, the tribe and I have spoken. It is available at robhasabook.com. There is a pre-order bonus chapter. People have been like, hey, hold on. The book is out. Where's my pre-order bonus chapter? Well, we are waiting until after Survivor 50 is over.

[01:11:57] And on June 1st, if you have ordered or pre-ordered the tribe and I have spoken, you will receive the digital chapter of the Ultimate Rites of Passage, my tribute to 751 Survivor players. And that will be sent to you digitally. Just register at robhaswebsite.com slash pre-order perks. Got a lot of questions about how do I get my pre-order perks? Robhaswebsite.com slash pre-order perks.

[01:12:25] And also in the audio book, check out Steven Fishback is reading the preface. How about that? Not just me, though. You also read the rest of it. I read the rest of it, but Steven will get you started, get you warmed up. So a really nice treat over on Audible. This week, we got a great lineup coming up to talk about all this. Drew Basile is joining me on Thursday, plus our double exit interview.

[01:12:49] And then Lisa Welchel is going to be my guest to catch up on all things. And we'll talk to Lisa Welchel. One of my favorite interviews was with Lisa Welchel, where she just hung up on me, basically. Where I was like, you were at the finale for Philippines. And I was like, Skyping in through you. And she was like, do I have to talk to him? And then just like disconnected her headset. Dan Lembo'd you? Yeah, she Lembo'd me.

[01:13:15] And then Brennan Lee Mulligan is going to join me on Tuesday. That's crazy. Does he listen to the podcast? We'll find out. But a big Survivor fan, Brennan Lee Mulligan. And so we'll talk to him on Tuesday. I'm a big Brennan Lee Mulligan fan. That's crazy. Well, you'll have to tune in. Check out then everything else that's in our Survivor podcast feed over at weknowsurvivor.com. For all that, I will be live with the patrons on Friday later time.

[01:13:44] I've been bouncing around the times to accommodate more patrons this season. So I will be back at 6 p.m. Eastern on Friday for the patron Q&A. Join me at 6 as we talk about the final six. And then on Monday, Club Kondo. I'm sure Chappelle is not okay after Sari got voted out. Find out what else is going on in Club Kondo coming up on Monday night.

[01:14:10] And then speaking of 6-7, on June 6 and 7 at the American Writers Festival. Steve, what's going on? Yeah, I'm going to be appearing at the American Writers Festival in Chicago. So if you are in Chicago, you can come stop by on June 7. I'll be in a panel discussion about suspense and humor, which are two themes that I'm very passionate about. So it's a phenomenal lineup. Daniel Krauss, who just won the Pulitzer, is going to be there. Lauren Groff is going to be there.

[01:14:39] And many other amazing writers. So if you live in Chicago and are interested in literary things, especially June 7, I would strongly recommend you come by because I will be there only on June 7. Okay, good. Because I don't want to counter-program you because on June 6, I am going to be at an event. And I don't know if you can see me if I'm off on the side. But I'm going to be with my great friend Jonathan Penner. And we are going to be at the Tribeca Film Festival.

[01:15:07] They are having a Survivor panel with a ton of great Survivor guests. And so you can join me and Penner and a panel of both former Survivor players and celebrity Survivor superfans. Maybe, I can't look. I don't want to say anything from Survivor 50. You can go to RobIsTheWebster.com slash Tribeca if you're in the New York City area for that one. That's going to be on June 6th. Okay.

[01:15:36] And then over on ChatBCC, ChatBCC has really blown up this season. Wow, holy cow. Seriously, he's got critical mass over there. Critical mass and has joined us there. That's where all the Survivors are gossiping. They're spilling the tea everywhere, Stephen. And sometimes people screenshot it and we're like, hey, that was only for ChatBCC. That's right. You can't be posting that out on the rest of social media.

[01:16:04] That's only for the glitterati at the ChatBCC. Yeah, totally agree. Check out RobIsWebster.com slash VIPChat if you want to be there for that, talking with all the Survivors about what's going on. Anything else on your mind, Stephen? No, just what a pleasure it is. How happy I am for you that your book hit bestseller status. Yes, you sent a nice message today. Yeah, just a lot of, it was all caps. It was all, I don't even know if it was grammatical, but it was all caps and enthusiasm. That's good.

[01:16:31] We will forgive a non-grammatical text today, Stephen. Yeah. But most of all, it was a sad day for Survivor. Really bummed about Rick, who is one of my dear friends and who played an amazing, yeah, I know. And also, and like, you know, just like played a great game, had a great time out there. You know, I warned all my friends, like, oh, going back is going to be miserable. You know, like, it's so tough.

[01:16:58] Like, you know, and he came back, he didn't tell me how he did, but he's like, I had an amazing time. And I was like, that's amazing. It makes me so happy that you had a great time. Like, that was such a relief and so wonderful. And you can see why. He just like played with all of his heart and all of his joy. And I'm very sad to see Ciri go, who it's been just so much fun watching. I mean, as a Survivor fan, I don't know if it gets better than watching Ciri work her magic. Read the micro expressions on Stephanie LaGrosa's face and use them to formulate an entire strategy.

[01:17:25] It's just like such, it's like Survivor at its highest level. This game, as it was like meant to be played, we never get to see this level of gameplay with new players. You know, because you just don't have the experience to like be that good. And it was like, I'm so sad that this is ending, you know? And this has been like, it's been so, so great to watch. And like Ciri, like the best, the best to never win for sure.

[01:17:52] But like among, you know, in terms of like a single episode of strategy, possibly the best ever. What's next for Ciri? What'd she do after this? Yeah, I guess she's done Traders already. Yeah, Traders All-Stars for sure. Traders All-Stars, yeah. I know there was some talk about her on The Amazing Race. I don't know if that's the right venue for Ciri. I feel like that's not like the Ciri, like, is there a strategy? I mean, I guess I don't watch. She's done Big Brother. The challenge?

[01:18:21] Yeah, I don't think so. Maybe, you know, Jared could do the challenges. What about Ciri as the next host of Survivor? What do you think of that? I think that would be, she would really, but her like genius is extracting information, which would be great. But like it would really, the players would really struggle with Ciri as a host. You'd be like, oh, I saw you. I saw that eyebrow raise. We know what all, we all know what that means from Rob. Yeah, I think she'd be really good at Tribal Council. I'm not sure. She'd be a good host.

[01:18:51] She would be a really, really good host. I think that I'm struggling to imagine her like going from the person of like getting the person to walk across the balance beam, like being the, like dig. But like, I'm sure she could do it. That's why she'd be a good host. A different take. You know, we don't want the same, you know, the new. It would be a different take on it. So I like that. But we can't wait to see what comes next. Looking forward to talking with Ciri and Rick on Thursday. Steven, great job by you.

[01:19:20] I had such a fun time podcasting with you on the Know-It-All. This is our last time that we're going to be together in the regular season. And we'll get together after the winner is crowned. But Steven, this was a delight. It was a delight for me, too. This was so fun. I mean, this season has been great. Talking about it with you has been great. Such a bummer that it's over. I was anticipating this for so long. Now it's like in the, you know. And certainly, honestly, I feel like with the ouster of Rick and Ciri, it's already over for me. Like, I don't really care what happens next.

[01:19:50] All right. Well, whatever happens next, we will be there for you. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye. Bye. Bye.