This week, Rob and Stephen discuss the Survivor 48 premiere![00:00:00] Du liegst in der Badewanne und hörst Deinen Podcast. Doch hui, das Plätschern des Wassers wird zum Meeresrauschen und plötzlich fliegst Du in den Süden. Ägypten, Kanaren, Griechenland, Türkei, Karibik. Der warme Sand zwischen den Zehen, ein kühles Getränk in der Hand und die Sonne auf der Haut. Nicht träumen, Alturs buchen. Alles drin, alles gut, alles für Dich. Alturs, alles aber günstig. Jetzt im Reisebüro oder auf alturs.de.
[00:00:30] Survivor 48 is here and alongside it, we're bringing you a brand new season of On Fire, the only official Survivor podcast. If you're a Survivor superfan, you won't want to miss this deep dive into every episode where we break down how we designed the game, the biggest moves, your burning questions. It's the only podcast that gives you inside access to Survivor that nobody else can. Listen to On Fire, the official Survivor podcast with me, Jeff Probst, coming soon wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:00:58] The smartest guys in town are switching their plans around to go back to streaming Wednesday night. Well, actually, Rob never stopped doing Wednesdays at all. Survivor know it all.
[00:01:33] Steven and Rob will come in hot. They're returning to their old time slot. They know it all. Yes, that's right, Steven. We're back. We're home. Oh my gosh. Wednesday nights. What on earth? I can't believe. And Josh's voice to serenade us in like that?
[00:02:00] Yes, thank you, Wanda, for that beautiful serenade of our announcement this week that we are returning. The Survivor know-it-alls is back on wed. Whoa, whoa. Do you remember that in Survivor Nicaragua that they had a whole campaign of the Survivors like hold up a card like now on back on wed or now on wed? Of course I remember that. I was so honored to be a part of that. Yes, yes, yes. In your real heyday of only being like a year off the show. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
[00:02:28] Right. That was an exciting alumni. You were already. I was old news for way longer than that. Speaking of old news, Rob, 15 years. Congratulations. That's extraordinary. Thank you so much. And Survivor know-it-alls has been a huge part of that. I think that this is going to be in the fall 13 years of Survivor know-it-alls. So our know-it-alls bar mitzvah coming up this fall. So be on the lookout for that. Finally a man. Finally. Do you ever feel, you know, I've said all I have to say. I'm done. 15 years.
[00:02:58] That's the great thing about Survivor. There's always new stuff to say. And we're so excited to have everybody back here for a new season. Stephen and I are back here live after the episode to talk with you. And we are very excited to get into everything. Stephen, do you mind, before we get to jump into things, if I could just tell people what's ahead for the week in store? Oh, no, please. Okay, because the good thing I'm not running out of things to say, because we have a lot that is coming up this week here on RHAP.
[00:03:28] This is what I've got lined up. Of course, you are here on Survivor know-it-alls in the morning. I'm going to be doing the Survivor exit interview. I will talk with Stephanie. And then, because I'm back with Stephen on Wednesday night, that we're also going back to me doing a longer form interview on Thursday. And so that's what's going to be coming up on Thursday. I'll do a patron Q&A on Friday. We've added in an old-school interview every single week. And then on Mondays, I'll talk to Chappelle on Club Condo and to kick things off this week.
[00:03:58] Tomorrow, I will get into everything with our great friend Zach Wordenberger. And an old-school interview coming up on Monday night with T-Bird. Well, I was hoping Zach wasn't the old-school interview, because, you know, that was not so old school. Yeah, not that old school. And also, of course, Stephen and I have been chatting all night long, talking about the episode,
[00:04:21] as we got involved with putting together a Survivor VIP group chat, which everyone is welcome to join us. And talking Survivor with us all week long for free and a bunch of our Survivor friends. If you want to jump in on this, crash the group chat.
[00:04:41] Go to robinswebsite.com slash VIPchat to skip the waiting list and jump right in and chat alongside all the Survivor glitterati, Stephen. I'm finally hobnobbing! Yes, you'll be hobnobbing and rubbing elbows and hearing what all our Survivor friends have to say. Myself and Stephen, Kelly Wentworth and Tyson and Marianne and Omer and Davey and scores of other Survivors are there. Yucking it up.
[00:05:09] I really like the platform because it kind of has like the looseness and casualness of like the text message group chat, but kind of like the scale and the reach of social. One of my many problems with sort of like traditional social, everyone's like sounding off on social media. Like, here's my pronouncement, you know, but this is like, you know, we're like chatting. It's like a little bit of like, it's more like bantery and I love bantery. Very bantery. It's like you are, you know, you are reading the what the Survivors are saying in the group chat. And so check that out. Go to robinswebsite.com slash VIPchat.
[00:05:38] All right, Stephen, I get to have chat with the ultimate Survivor VIP here today as we get to break down the two hour episode of Survivor. And I would love to know what your thoughts were on the premiere. I mean, it's so great. It's just so exciting, you know, to be back. I feel like it's a very fun cast. It's, you know, can I just say out of the gate, I feel like this is one of the hotter casts we've had, you know, and you know, that's something very important to me.
[00:06:05] And I think maybe what happened is they saw all the anti-hot person bias last season. And we're like, we can't take this anymore. We've got to bring in some real hotties and there's some real hotties out there. First off, I love that this is your platform that you have owned of that. Okay, bring the hot people back to Survivor. And, you know, with all due respect to our friends from Survivor 41 through 47. And so you're, and you've taken this on. Each of them is beautiful on the inside, but the outside is what we care about. Yes. Okay.
[00:06:33] So, and do you feel like that now this is what the people want? Or this is like going to make for more exciting Survivor? Well, you know, I think it's both. I mean, look at the- And will we get to vote on that for Survivor 50? How hot do the returnees get to be? I do think, well, I truly believe, I truly believe, Rob, that like hotter people, not like the whole cast needs to be breathtakingly beautiful, but hot people lead to better Survivor. Like a nice, like a big contingent of hotties, you know, because like hot people are typically,
[00:07:03] you know, they're, they're a little bit more confident. You know, they're, and as a result, which is like both good and bad, they're going to play more aggressively. They're going to like take bigger risks, you know, both for good and for ill. And so, so, you know, I, I think like we need a real, like a good, like third of the cast needs to be like absolutely, you know, breathtaking. Yeah. Steven, I don't disagree with you. I think that really the best Survivor casting are probably the breathtakingly attractive and then also the conventionally unattractive also.
[00:07:32] And maybe that's a season I know that they've sort of done away with the themes, but maybe with Survivor 50 in the hands of the fans, maybe, you know, 51 and beyond, we could get some sort of like hot versus not season of Survivor. Can you imagine? Wow. I mean, they did have a beauty tribe. Of course, that was more about beauty on the inside. Yeah. We're just talking like, can you imagine like walking out there and like you are cast on the ugly tribe? Yeah. Could you imagine the zoom call at the start of the season? Like, Hey, Steven, great news.
[00:08:00] You're a part of Survivor 51 hot or not. You're on the not tribe. Yeah. But like, okay. I, you know what? I'm thank you. I'm leaving. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. That's what the viewers are saying too. All right. But let's get into this in all seriousness. So this was a very fun two hour episode. Steven, speaking of rubbing elbows with the glitterati, I had the opportunity this past
[00:08:27] weekend that it was part of a very nice thing that Survivor put on where I actually got to see the episode early. I got to watch it on Saturday night with a room full of people. And Jeff had a panel after the show and I got to even meet a bunch of the Survivor 48 contestants. Oh, wow. Who'd you meet? There was almost all of them were there. They, that it was, uh, you know, they don't get to have a finale finale together, but they do have a first episode of the season. And probably that's for the best because there's a lot of hard feelings that surface by the end of the season.
[00:08:58] Yeah. Right. I mean, of course, well, that's so fun. Was, um, was Stephanie there? Stephanie was there. And I will say that she got a nice ovation from the room and it's a very hard thing to be the first person voted out of Survivor. Let's start there and talk about Stephanie. Now I would love to know from you when you watch the episode, did you feel like that Stephanie was going to go home? This is funny because I actually want to talk with like, I had a moment where I was like, it could be either of them.
[00:09:24] But then like this, this binary narrative they were setting up of Stephanie decided to not play hard and say, went out there and played hard. I was like, there's no way in, you know, Survivor 48 that they are going to let the person who like did not play hard, be the one who came out on top. And they so hit this point of like, this one's playing hard and going for it. And this one's not going for it. And that's her strategy. And my mind, like, you know, my heart is, I guess, of course you like take a backseat.
[00:09:53] I guess, of course you go slowly out of in the early days. But I know, I mean, like literally in Jeff's opening speech, he said, you have to go for it. Like you have to go all. So I was like, there's no way that if this is the storyline that Stephanie is like somehow are like seeing the triumph of not playing hard in the first episode of this new season. So in that way, like I kind of figured Stephanie. Yeah. So in the real time, when I watched it on Saturday, I really thought say was going to go home.
[00:10:19] And I thought that it was going to be a case of that Justin and Kevin were going to flip and that say wasn't going to play her idol and that she was going to be the first person voted. And I was thinking like, wow, this is like what a, you know, crazy first boot of the show ultimately. And I felt like they're really making a meal out of Stephanie playing the shot in the dark. That was the first time that I said, okay, maybe it is going to be Stephanie, but you're right. I think that that moment that Jeff had on the mat, I feel like that that really was thematically
[00:10:48] at the center of this episode. The one thing that gave me pause was that Jeff talks if players are going to attack the game and says, you know, basically if it's fear of failure, that's causing you to play slow. Why even answer the call? Why even get up off the couch for that? And I think that that does ultimately become the theme of this episode, but he does say, but just because you play aggressively doesn't mean you're ensured success in that.
[00:11:17] So that's the one thing that gave me pause. Yeah. Yeah. But they were just, I mean, Stephanie made this really conscious choice and you kind of feel bad for her because like, you know, according to this, the episode, like her, like real, like effort to not give in to her, like more, more, you know, aggressive playing instincts was what, what led to her downfall. But yeah, I mean, like, so let's, let's talk about, was this the right choice for, and let's, you know, just, I mean, maybe for Justin and Kevin. These two seem to be in the swing.
[00:11:45] It seemed like that Cedric from what we heard from Justin seemed like he really wanted to stay close to where the idol was. Because it's, you know, an interesting decision. And I think that there are some parallels between this and the Lavo tribe, the tribe that Rome was on in Survivor 47. And I do wonder where this was sort of like, I thought that this was a similar situation
[00:12:08] where you have somebody who is like coming in hot and is going to be very much like the person who is looking for the idol. And then ultimately might in a different scenario, be the first person voted out. But having the advantage, having the idol, I think does end up giving them a more secure place in the tribe. Yeah. And I will say for, you know, to Say's credit, she did such a good job of sharing it with their group.
[00:12:37] You know, I mean, where, you know, maybe Stephanie and Mary felt that Say was running off and not telling them, but, you know, from the group that Say really went out and formed, you know, she went out to those guys and like, this is my group, you know, like, and, you know, and you are now part of my alliance. And just like through force of will. And I fully expected that to blow up, you know, because it seems so kind of like top down, like this is it. And I am playing hard. And like, this is my group.
[00:13:04] So she cemented that, you know, with bringing them into the, to the, to the advantage hunt and solving the problem. And everyone kind of had part of that, you know, I mean, Sam did that very methodically last season, right? Where he went like, I'm bringing in this person for this part of it. And I'm bringing in this person for this part of it. And I bring it. I mean, it's very similar to what Say did here, you know, like everyone kind of had a little piece of that. And as a result, that probably did help cement their, their sort of group identity. And so just to answer your question from before, I do think that this probably was the right
[00:13:33] decision for Justin and for Kevin, because that based off of what we saw, it probably would have also entailed blindsiding Cedric also. And so now you're going to turn off Cedric to ultimately take out Say. And, you know, it seemed like that they had like a decent relationship with Mary and Stephanie, but it seemed like that the better relationship was with Cedric, the three guys, and then also with Say who has an idol. And maybe she might be a little bit of a loose cannon, but I think you probably feel better
[00:14:02] about no matter what happens, it's either probably going to be Mary or maybe a blind side of Say if that's going to be, you go to tribal council again. Yeah. I mean, let's talk about, I mean, to separate out Justin and Kevin, I do think it's slightly better for Justin than Kevin simply because it did look from what we saw, I mean, Mary voted for Say. So this was not something where she was in on it. And I think maybe that was a misstep to like not bring her in when the whole group was.
[00:14:29] And obviously part of that is the very fact of the shot in the dark and is the fact that you kind of want to get the other person to trick the other person. But I think that this was a little bit of a misstep for Kevin because he, you know, created this bond with Mary and he's immediately kind of pissing off this person who is supposedly his other big alliance in the group. And based off of what we saw, I think it's also reasonable to believe that it was Kevin
[00:14:57] who tipped off Stephanie, that it was going to be her when she asked him, okay, how's the vote going to go tonight? And he said, no, very straightforward. Yeah. Not a good answer. Yeah. You know, that's. Well, and then he was like, oh, when we didn't talk about any names. Oh, yeah. When they went back to say it when they asked what names. That's, um, uh, oh, that was Justin who did that. Right. Who said, oh, yeah. Those first days that you're not the best liar. You got to give some people grace for like those early boots. Yeah. You're just like, not so good at lying to other people.
[00:15:27] I think it bears repeating for people like, well, why is that a bad answer? Because I think that when you are trying to just get rid of somebody, you tell them everything is going to be fine. Don't worry about it. It's good. It's going to be a very straightforward where I think that the survivor instinct of somebody who you are actually working up, like, let's go over this one more time. Okay. Let's make sure we're all on the right page about this. Yeah. And, and I mean, just in general, nobody, it's not, it doesn't pass the sniff test to say, oh, like, well, they didn't throw out a name. It's like, just not credible. It's very straightforward.
[00:15:54] We're just blindsiding the person with the idol that don't worry about it. Yeah, exactly. We got this. Yeah. Yeah. But I would love to talk a little bit about, uh, Stephanie versus say, in terms of their approaches, because the, the clash of styles was a big part of the episode in terms of how say wanted to handle things and how Stephanie wanted to handle things. And we saw it in the beginning of the episode that before we see say talking to the men, we see say, talk to Stephanie and Mary. And it's actually where we get the title of the episode, which I think is the get to know
[00:16:23] you game where Stephanie is trying to like, oh, wait, where are you from? And she's like trying to make a bond socially first before she makes one that's about an alliance. And say is like, ah, I'm not here for that. And basically says, I'm not here to play the get to know you game. And she goes instantly from what we see to go start talking to the guys. And I think that in a lot of circumstances, the Stephanie approach is the right approach in some of these other tribes. We've seen many survivor players.
[00:16:53] If we were going to tell people how to play survivor the right way, I think we would tell them, Hey, I think you want to start with a social bond that ultimately becomes a strategic bond and not just be, you know, out there in the dating world of like going up to somebody like, Hey, you want to go home with me? Yeah. There, there is something to be said for, well, there's two, there's two like sort of like, you know, responses to that. And one is just, if someone, you kind of have to be receptive to how other people are playing the game. So if someone's coming up to you with that, like, Hey, but this is it, this is the group, right?
[00:17:24] Um, you don't say no, you know, like you don't say, well, let's, let's, let's hold. I mean, it's like, that's the whole thing with, with Penner in Philippines. It's like, someone's coming to you with, with the, the, the, the offer. Like, you're not like, well, let me think about it and see how things plan out. And the second thing, which is really just the first thing restated, um, is that I do think there is in those early days like this, like, I mean, I think you see it across everybody, like any, any group, this is the three, right? This is the four. I mean, you know, like, uh, with the California girls, which is like one of my all-time favorite
[00:17:51] alliances, I think now out of, after one episode, um, you know, they're like, okay, the guys, we, we like each other, you know, and then up to people. And then, you know, or, or even with like, um, you know, Mary and Kevin, oh, we, we vibe. Oh, great. We're, we're in, you know, I, I do think there's a lot of that. And I think say is not wrong if she's like, okay, we, this, this group, you know, and, and then she gets like some pushback from that. Like, not only is that wrong, like probably a misstep for, for Stephanie and Mary in that situation, but like say is correctly reading that situation that like, if they were in,
[00:18:21] they would say something to that effect. Yeah. And say is moving on very quickly and goes and starts the Alliance and she gets the answers that she's looking for, uh, when she ends up talking to Justin and Cedric. And then ultimately Kevin, I wanted to try this on and tell me what you think about this in terms of like, well, how do I know the right approach to be taking in terms of like being out there and, and playing, starting very fast or ultimately taking a little bit more of an
[00:18:47] approach to try to like, okay, I'm going to see how things develop a little bit, not, not to a fault, but just like a little bit slower in terms of tribe strength. I wonder that, do you think in a tribe that is a powerhouse where we saw some of these other two tribes that the green tribe, the Vula tribe, they're outgunned by a lot. Even, you know, Kevin in the preseason talks about how like, well, there's three strong guys out here. I know one of them is going to be on my tribe.
[00:19:15] None of those three guys that he mentioned end up being on his tribe. And obviously it's Joe and Davis. He said, Kyle, he thought was the third, was the other, uh, like, uh, Hey, Kevin, look in the mirror. You're the, you're the other strong guy. That's you're the powerhouse for this team. But wait, we go, sorry. I'll let you finish. Yeah. So I wonder that if you're some, if you're say, and you're on a tribe that is maybe physically outgunned, is it better to be, Hey, I got to start playing fast. Cause there's a chance we're going to travel council.
[00:19:45] Soon and often, as opposed to somebody who is maybe on a tribe, like maybe the tribe that has a lot of powerhouses. Maybe we're not going to go to tribal council. And maybe I'm going to be a little bit more laying back because maybe we're not going to go to tribal council for a while. Maybe I'll have some more time to work at this. That's really interesting. I think that's a great observation and it probably like powers those dynamics. You know, I mean, so much of it is just like, you've got to see what other people are doing and, you know, and, and mirror that.
[00:20:15] And like, I thought, you know, Thomas expressed that beautifully when he said, you know, I'm listening to what other people are saying and kind of trying to figure out how I present, you know, present my personality in such way that it fits in best, best with that. I mean, that's basically it, right? You're like, if you're coming and saying, here's how I'm going to play the game and like other people better figure out around me how to do that. Like, that's probably not a long-term successful strategy. And that of course was what I didn't love about, say, his game plan. I think, you know, say ended up triumphing today, but I think probably does not have, you know, too much longevity.
[00:20:44] I could be wrong, but, but, you know, I think like you kind of just always want to be, be sort of receptive to the vibe, but you might be right that that does determine the vibe. I always bring this back, of course, to my experience, my, my trauma in, in Cambodia, you know, where Bayon was the, like, totally the chill vibe tribe. And I'm like running up and down the beach and like, yeah, as the outlier. And then you see over there in Takeo and they're all, they're all going crazy. They're all over, all over the place. And I felt so much empathy for that, but I think you're right.
[00:21:12] Like we had Joe, you know, like we, we had, we were strong, we were winning. Like, I think you're probably right that like they, although I don't know, in that situation, they had just won a challenge. So whatever, it's not a perfect parallel, but it is. I do think you may be right that that's about like a general principle. Yeah. Can we just briefly talk about who, who split up these? Like, if you look at Vulu and you look at Loggi, like, or Vula, Vula, like who made these divisions? Like, this is not a fair, this is not fair. Like very superficially. Yeah.
[00:21:39] At some point, even like when they were like about to release them, you know, let's just switch these two people around. Like right before Jeff says go, you know, maybe like switch out, I don't know, like Mary and star or something. You know what I mean? It seems like the, the disparity really, I think comes in the form of the women, especially when you've talked about the Loggi tribe, uh, who has, uh, Bianca, but also star and Eva, in addition to, uh, you know, Joe and Shaheen, uh, and Thomas, you know, uh, the,
[00:22:09] you know, with all due respect to, you know, uh, Mary and Stephanie and say, it seems like that typically you should probably try to balance out. Okay. Like, let's give them the weaker men, but also we'll balance it out with the stronger women. Yeah. But I mean, Loggi is like all strong fit athletic guys, you know, like Shaheen is like the weak. I mean, I don't know. I mean, Thomas and Shaheen are both like really fit guys. Like, you know, they could stack up against any of the guys on Vula and like, that's not even counting Joe.
[00:22:39] Yeah. And they have even star too, you know, so it's a real powerhouse team. But again, you know, we sometimes look at these different teams in, uh, survivor 46. I think the, the Hunter tribe, I think we thought, okay, well, how are they going to win any challenges, uh, that they don't really like have the, uh, greatest powerhouses and they ended up winning all of the challenges. So right. Hard to say on paper, but so far as expected Vula is the team that's in the most trouble in the challenges.
[00:23:05] I want to ask you about the beware advantage, uh, that we saw. It really does seem like the survivor producers team Flint and everybody that works on putting these things together. This really did seem like a challenge that when say found the beware advantage, almost impossible for one person to try to accomplish all this. Yeah. I mean, which is so great. I mean, I thought that was so fun and inventive and just enjoyable. So it really like, it was sort of like a long dungeons and dragons challenge.
[00:23:34] And like, you know, even their tribal council said it's kind of like dungeons and dragons either. They're like, we invented a fantasy civilization. Like, then we went back to first principles and figured out what kind of domes they would use. You know, it's really, um, I feel like they're really getting into the sort of like RPG vibe, which like I am obviously very here for. Um, but yeah, I loved it. First of all, like, like it was just such a, all the different parts of it and how like they had, you know, put them all over the landscape. So in order to like figure out the colors, you had to, you know, go to all the different parts of the, of the Island and the camp.
[00:24:03] Um, impossible, like probably unlikely for someone to get every single part of it by themselves. Yeah. And you would need to go and be like, just running all over the place. We saw a little bit in survivor 46 where people like, uh, you know, Jim and Tiffany needed to like run around. Even Hunter had to like do a couple of tasks, but this does seem like a task to me in terms of you had to go and uncover all of the clues. You had to go and like, uh, figure out everything. And if you did not have people covering for you, it seemed like the kind of thing that
[00:24:32] you would have most definitely have been. Everybody's like, okay, where is say, right? Yes. Not just Stephanie and Mary saying it. So they, they last time had, um, you know, last season they had those idols that sort of like grew in power, the more effort you put into them. Um, which I really loved. Uh, and I, I really love this too. Like what, where do you have a preference between those two strategies? Do you think this is like a replacement for that? Or do you think that it's going to be different every single season?
[00:24:58] That the idols are having a different tribal council time limits. Yeah. Or just different mechanics kind of governing how they work. Well, it's interesting because, uh, last season we had the idols, you know, coming off of survivor 46 where, and now these players finished watching survivor 46 and then they went to go play that there were a lot of people that they had, you know, one tribal council, three tribal councils or full blown idol that this appears to be what say has a full blown idol.
[00:25:25] I remember on the on fire podcast, Charlie was saying to Jeff about, Hey, like having a idol that only is good for one tribal council. Like that's, that's good. Like you can't, you can't screw that up. And Jeff's like, okay, well, uh, we'll make a note of that because then, you know, I, I like the idea of the players being able to blow it, but that happened after that, that conversation had to happen after they filmed this season. So I do wonder if that was something that was, uh, maybe that they thought about of,
[00:25:53] okay, well, it's no fun. If a player gets an idol for the next tribal council, because they have no way of screwing it up. That's interesting. And, and probably, I mean, like last season, like people did stop pretty early, right? There was one, um, that was just, it was Gabe's for the, for just one. No, I think Gabe was for, yeah, either three or for the whole thing. And he used it at the first one. Yeah. And then somebody else had the one. Right. Right. Um, so like people were stopping. And then of course, like to your point, like people, if, if you're a producer and you
[00:26:23] want this like idol in the game, both as like this looming threat and as this like potential to totally blow it, um, you know, people playing tactically and intelligently is not necessarily what you have with your ideal outcome. Yeah. Steven for say long-term, where do you feel like this is going? Do you feel like that say is able to, you know, with an idol, with an alliance now with
[00:26:48] the number one person and really say, and Stephanie were not vibing from the preseason. I know that you did not make a meal out of the preseason coverage, but Mike Bloom did incredible interviews with all these people and that I believe say, and Stephanie both had, uh, some comments about each other. That's and say was especially vocal. She was not feeling Stephanie from the preseason. Wow. That's so interesting. What was it about, uh, Stephanie?
[00:27:14] I think that Stephanie was painting at Ponderosa and yes, uh, that I too am an air sign and also, you know, uh, notably indecisive, but say just was not vibing with Stephanie from the preseason. Yeah. I'm an air sign too, Rob. I'm an, I'm an Aquarius, which everyone thinks is a water sign because that's the word aqua in it, but you know, we're indecisive even about what type of sign we are. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah. Uh, what are you? Are you, are you a Libra? Libra. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:40] Weigh things out back and forth, you know, uh, but you know, say as an air sign, she doesn't like people who are indecisive. Yeah. Which is sort of, uh, uh, yeah, interesting. But to know that about yourself is great. You know, self-knowledge. So yeah. I mean, I do think that, you know, say clearly triumphed here. I think she played it decently well, but I think that her overall strategy is a little too like pedal to the metal here.
[00:28:07] And as much as Jeff might like that, like, I don't think that's going to have longevity. I mean, you saw that even, you know, people were already kind of debating whether or not to move against her. Yeah. And of course, like she would have time now, right. To like deepen those alliances, but that's, and so like so much depends upon what she does next episode. Right. If she kind of like, well, I've got my like solid four, I'm going to like take a step back. I'm going to take a breath, like let these relationships marinate.
[00:28:33] Um, then I think that she could, you know, maybe build something deeper, but that does not seem to be the type of personality she is. She seems to be like, go fast, go hard. And I think that that might kind of wear out. It's welcome a little bit. Here's my bold prediction on this, that if say does end up getting voted out in the pre merge, I think that Mary is going to be the driving force. I feel like that Cedric, he is just calm collected. I feel like that Justin and Kevin. Yeah.
[00:29:03] They're kind of happy guys. I don't feel like that they are ready to really like do a big blind side of say without some prodding from Mary who might be very scorned with how this all went down. Right. That's interesting. And then they're all kind of seem to be somewhat like moral in their framework, you know, certainly. Um, so yeah, I mean, that's, that's, that's interesting. I buy, I buy that. Yeah.
[00:29:26] Mary had, you know, some real glares for, uh, the, the group as she cursed that the blur, blur her mouth. Yeah. Wow. She's not happy. Okay. Steven, let's talk about a couple of these other tribes. Uh, let's talk about the Siva tribe. That's the sun tribe. Yes. The orange tribe. Yeah. And they, uh, we got to see Mitch really is, uh, it feels like the glue guy also on this tribe.
[00:29:55] Chrissy's a big personality. Seems like a positive person to be around. You have David here on this tribe. What's your reaction to David? I like David. I mean, it seems very affable. Uh, you know, um, I can say though, like they're like, I'm like a big strong guy, but I love this rom-com. It feels a little bit like too, like, here's my crazy quirk, you know, like a little bit too, too much of that. But, um, you know, I, I seem like nice and friendly and, um, you know, very willing to obviously share. It didn't seem like some sort of like, you know, it wasn't like that sort of like bossy alpha type that you sometimes see.
[00:30:25] I mean, like, you know, at 39 years old, I feel like is very like prime to be the bossy alpha, you know, you're like still, you're like, you're like a little mature, but you're still like, you haven't like, you know, hit the decrepitude of your forties yet. Uh, so I feel like that's, that's a, you know, a good, a good age. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, uh, probably judge David, uh, the book by its cover. A little bit, but I think that there's more depth there that I think people can expect. And I think he's very funny in the confessionals also, which you don't always get from somebody
[00:30:54] who's here to be like a big athlete on the team. Yeah. I really enjoyed him. I thought he had a great presence, like very like dynamic. I mean, this is what I'm talking about with hot people. You know, he's got like, he's dynamic. He's got a big presence. Like, is it too big? Like, could it get too big? Let's see. But for now it's like super fun. And he's going to do like somewhat risky things like, you know, like leading the tribe off in search of all these like symbols instead of, you know, being calculating, like everybody else in the game is constantly, you know, he's going to like do something a little bit
[00:31:24] impulsive and that is going to be interesting to watch. So Kevin is also, sorry, Kyle, Kyle and Kevin, I was transposing them the whole time in my notes, but Kyle ends up coming back from the challenge after Kevin and he comes back the loser. Let's talk a little bit about the challenge that we see Kyle and Kevin participate in. And I thought this was a really interesting one. I thought that from a TV standpoint, I thought that what they did with Asia and TK last season was good, but I thought this was better. I really liked this.
[00:31:53] This seemed like because it was a little bit more like literally on a track, you know, I mean, they were running into the jungle, but they were literally on a track. So there was this like thing, you know, whereas with Asian TK and this, like, it seems like this is just kind of like, they took that to the next level. They're like running all over. It was hard to get a sense of like really where they were going or what was happening. Like we had their confessionals, but it was a little bit kind of like hard to follow almost. But this was like, you know, you see them and they're like, there's different like tasks along the way, which was really fun too.
[00:32:20] And that kind of like, you know, survivor Robinson Crusoe, you know, way of it. And they get different strategies to, you know, where you saw, you know, Kevin being really methodical and Kyle being sort of a little more chaotic and aggressive. And it starts to work for Kyle. And then, you know, he, oops, he shatters his bowl and I give the really lovely moment where like, you know, Kyle kind of helps him finish. I thought that was really nice. Yeah. Do you feel like that that moment between Kyle and Kevin, was that sportsmanship or do you feel like was there strategy or maybe both?
[00:32:50] I mean, I think, you know, always anything on Survivor want to attribute to strategy, like probably too much. I honestly just thought it was like more sportsmanship. And of course you're like, well, who knows down the line, like maybe this will pay dividends, but it just seemed like the nice, decent thing to do. Yeah. I really did like this challenge because I feel like that there was like an objective, but there wasn't necessarily set rules in terms of like what you had to do. And, you know, for the whole new era, we've had sweat versus savvy.
[00:33:18] But this, in this challenge, we actually had a challenge that actually, you know, had the players have to decide, am I using my sweat or am I using my savvy in terms of like the two approaches that we had where Kyle was just trying to power through this obstacle course and then just go as fast as he can. He's going to break the bamboo. He ultimately is just pouring the water in as hard as he can and ultimately breaks it where Kevin ends up taking like a much more like methodical savvy approach to it and ends
[00:33:48] up being the winner. So I really did like it that they approached it from these two different things. And there was a lot that we learned about these two. Yeah. I thought, I think you're exactly right. Like having these tasks that you could do anyway is like, I, I, I, I didn't, I couldn't articulate it, but like, you're right. I felt like very free and exciting. Like, Ooh, like they can solve this problem however they want. And like, maybe there's multiple different ways to solve this problem. It doesn't have to be just done in this one way. It kind of, I mean, like it actually, like I was thinking while watching the episode of
[00:34:15] that, of that challenge in Samoa, which was very silly at the time where like, they just show up to the challenge and Jeff isn't even there. And like, they have to like, kind of like devise their own challenge for themselves, which was like, again, like it was a little bit like too goofy, but like there was something there about, you know, letting the players kind of figure out how to solve a problem, which is really enjoyable to watch. We are Teresa and Nemo. And that's why we switched to Shopify.
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[00:35:09] Let's talk about Kyle who comes home and is the person who he loses in the first challenge. Then he ends up losing for the team challenge. David says, well, look, I could have won that. But you know, Kyle's not me. So, but Kyle, I thought it was able to rebound pretty well. It was nice to see the two people that went to go do this. It seemed like that they did not really get ostracized while they were away. Yeah.
[00:35:36] I mean, there was a little bit of like, could Kevin have something, you know, in his pocket from that? You know, you always, of course, suspect that. And I'm sure that was percolating in the back of people's minds. But for Kyle, it didn't seem to really affect him. And, you know, he seemed to immediately, although it was interesting that charity targeted Kyle. I thought that was such a weird choice. Like, was it just because he hadn't been there? I mean, what was that about, do you think? I think that there's a concern when these people that, and this has never happened in
[00:36:05] the new era. So I'm not sure necessarily where this comes from, but I know that there was some concern that maybe, oh, does Asia have something when she comes back from going on sweat versus savvy in season 47. And so the players are thinking like, okay, they left the tribe. They went on a journey. Maybe they have an advantage. And so charity seems to be the one person who's thinking about that. And then because she mentions that to Camilla, then we see that we're getting a four person
[00:36:33] alliance that comes together of people who have some sus on charity. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and it's beautifully executed by Camilla, right? Who we have to give credit to that for that too, since she took credit. But also it really did seem like she was the one who kept on kind of bringing it up. And then, you know, I really loved this foursome. It's such a fun foursome with David, Chrissy, Camilla and Kyle. And, you know, and she makes the point, you know, or maybe it was, I think it was Camilla
[00:37:01] who made the point, like, we're so unlike each other, which is such a great line. And I never really thought about that until, you know, I did my podcast with James Jones a couple of years ago, a couple of seasons ago, where he was saying, you know, having an alliance of people who are unlike each other is great because it's like stealthier and like it's less threatening in a way to people. And I thought that was such a great observation. And so this foursome really encapsulates that. Steven, I have three questions for you. What kind of car do you drive? What's your favorite movie? Yeah. And how do you like your steak?
[00:37:31] Wow. I mean, I would also be nervous about someone who'd like their steak medium well. And I have a friend who likes his steak well done. And like, I don't know about that. Is it a sociopath? I mean, he, you know, he's, I don't want to like out who that person is, but y'all know are they a survivor alumni? Yeah. Survivor alumni. Okay. Who likes his steak well done. Very scary. Yeah. I'm a medium rare guy. Who isn't? Like, that's just like, I'm a normal person in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Favorite movie?
[00:38:01] I mean, you know, rate, ranking. You know how I feel about ranking. Okay. Yeah. It's, it's no good. Arbitrary and reductive. Yeah. What about Nodding Hill? Great movie. I mean, you know, that has to be. I've actually never seen it. Really? Yeah. I know. Oh, you should. It's so charming. It truly is so charming. It's just like delightful. Okay. You know. What should I watch? Nodding Hill or Holes, Steven? Oh, I mean, I've obviously Nodding Hill. I mean, it's just like, it's like peak Hugh Grant. Like, like the, the, the apogee of his charm.
[00:38:29] I really think that you need to, uh, you know, you should see that. You, I think you really, you know, date night, Nicole. Date night? Yeah. Sit down. Popcorn. Raw steak. Let's do that. And then where's Mitch in all this? He doesn't get part of the Alliance. It seemed like that he was fitting in so well. I thought so too. I was, I was curious about, I mean, again, like so much of it is just like, these are the four people having this conversation right now. Let's call this our Alliance. And then he kind of sticks.
[00:38:59] Um, but, but, um, you know, the core four, but, but, you know, I did still feel bad for Mitch. You know, he didn't do anything wrong. It was charity who ruined it for everybody. Steven, did you notice a survivor? The Amazon reference on survivor tonight? No. What was it about? Mitch talked about how Chrissy. Oh yes. Yes. Of course. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Did you feel excited? I'll tell you what, when I was watching the episode on Saturday and first of all, I was
[00:39:27] seated very close to Mitch. Uh, no, I did not. Um, but there's, there's, he's talking about my hero is Christie Smith from the Amazon. I was worried they were going to show, okay, here's how it started. And then like, I was worried they were going to show her getting voted out. And I was like, Oh Mitch, I'm so sorry. Uh, so sorry about that. So sorry. But you know, that's, that's as Jeff said, survivor of the Amazon, that's forever ago. Yeah. Nobody cares about that.
[00:39:56] Come on. Really true. Yeah. All right. Then the Loggie tribe, which is our overachieving tribe. They're doing great. This is my, one of my favorite tribes. I really enjoy everybody on this tribe. I think this might be my favorite tribe in a while. Yeah. Well, they have some big personalities and we get to meet them. And that's, uh, with starting with the California girls of Thomas, Shaheen and Joe. Yeah. Great. Like really fun.
[00:40:25] I just like love each of them. They just say they have so much like personality. I mean, Thomas's confessionals are just sublime. You know, I love, um, I don't know, like his sort of like disbelief at being part of, of an all male alliance. Uh, and, and Joe, like, you know, even at the very beginning, that first moment with Joe, where they have him, you know, breaking down upon learning that he's going to be cast and then saying, you know, my kids are going to be so proud of me. Like what a beautiful moment that was.
[00:40:53] And then the way it pays off in this relationship with Eva, like I literally was getting tears. Like I, I, I was like, like becoming overwhelmed with emotion from like, just like how powerful that was where she is revealing the things that she struggles with and, you know, her challenges in life. And then like giving him like really concrete ways to like help her. Like, if you see me like holding myself, like, here's what you can do.
[00:41:21] And then he's like, I will be, you know, sacrifice my own game. I will be there for her. She picked the right guy. Like that was a, that was a gorgeous human, intense personal moment. Yeah. And you wonder maybe if the producers might have seen this pairing coming, because it's hard to imagine even another person on the season that would be a better person to pair up Eva with in the preseason. You know, she said that she was looking for athletic types to try to work with. And Joe is somebody who has such a big heart. He's a dad.
[00:41:50] He talks a lot about how he lost his sister to domestic violence. And so he's like, you know, you know, very sensitive and was just the perfect person for her to open up and share her secret about how she cannot really read other people particularly well. So she needs somebody to help her with that part of the game. And it is amazing that this is like three days into this adventure. And Joe's like, I'll lose for her. Yeah. I just met this person.
[00:42:20] And it might've been day two also. I'll lose the game for her. I just met this person and I'll, I've wanted this thing for so long and I'll give it up for her. Yeah. I mean, it's just cordial because like, you know, to have someone approach you with that amount of vulnerability to say, here are the struggles I face. And here I am turning to you to like help me because I see something in you. Like I see some like innate human decency in you. Like what are like a beautiful, like soul to soul human moment. And like, this is what's amazing about Survivor.
[00:42:47] I think it's like, you know, if you scripted something like that, it would probably come off as a little cheesy or corny. I mean, like the moment I always think about is like, yeah, Adam and Jay in millennials versus Gen X, like talking about how they both lost their moms, you know, or yeah, that's right. Right. Like, yeah. And then they just, yeah. Having that like deep connection out of the gate, you know, it was like, it would be too much if it was scripted, but it's like so real and so human. Yeah.
[00:43:16] And they really did a great job of setting it all up and the payoff. And so I'm sure many, many people were, you know, uh, you know, starting to get a little, a little, uh, misty eyed, uh, watching that segment on the Loggie tribe. So, all right. So you have Joe and Eva that they are not going to be broken up. You would think. Okay. You also have Thomas who's really going to bat for Bianca. They really hit it off and they have a really great relationship out of the gate. Yeah.
[00:43:46] Uh, which was really interesting because that was just sort of like comes out of nowhere, but they're also big, very fun. I mean, like this is a great Alliance. I think a great duo. And I think they're kindred spirits that Thomas works in the music industry. Bianca is a PR person. So they have like a, you know, very like a, you know, uh, fast talking, you know, entertainment vibe. And so they're, they're together like pretty much right off the bat. And it really seems a little bleak for star who.
[00:44:13] But like, like hopefully Loggie never loses, but yeah. And stars just outcast almost by virtue of not being having this immediate crazy bond with someone. I think that maybe the best case scenario for star is that they don't go to a tribal council, which is entirely possible for Loggie, whether they get to a swap or they get to the merge, you could totally see the circumstances where this tribe ends up not being the coming in last place in five immunity challenges.
[00:44:41] Um, I, um, yeah, I really liked like what, tell me about star. We didn't get a lot of star in this episode. I really liked star from the little I saw of her. Well, give me what she liked. Star is a former, uh, women's basketball player. She has a baby at home. She is a sales expert is, uh, what her, uh, chyron is on the screen. She says she can sell anything. She is a big talker.
[00:45:08] She's a relatively new to the show, but she's a really big, fun personality. Yeah. Crazy again, to put Eva and star on the same tribe as Joe and then Shaheen and Thomas. It just, just absolutely broken. It's a real powerhouse tribe. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe I will say, oh, go ahead. And maybe they weren't expecting as much from, you know, uh, a couple of the guys.
[00:45:32] Maybe they underestimated Thomas or Shaheen, but yeah, to put the women's athletes on this tribe also with Joe, like it's, I mean, I guess like a 30 year, eight year old debate professor. You're not thinking like this guy's going to really bring it necessarily, but he seemed like obviously fit just from looking at him. Yeah. Um, and he's got a great beard and like, that's like powerful. Yeah. Uh, do you know Steven also that, uh, Shaheen was an alternate for survivor 46? No. Oh, great.
[00:46:00] It's so nice to see those people get, get on just like knowing how, you know, emotionally devastating that has to be. Well, that the other alternate for survivor 46 was Rachel who came back 47 and won. And he actually made like a big kerfuffle in the survivor 46 preseason where a bunch of different players were talking about how they were getting really, uh, uh, bad vibes from beard guy. And we said, oh my God, who is this beard guy? And then ultimately then he pops up here on survivor 48.
[00:46:29] Now he said that he, that was due to the fact that he wasn't all, he knew he was an alternate. He was trying to, well, I think that he was, oh, he was really quiet. Yes. You, cause you really don't want to screw it up. Well, he was, I think hoping that maybe I'll sort of like, uh, create a little drama. Maybe the producer is like, oh, we need this guy. Get him in there. But then his comeback and then the survivor 48 players, he made a big impression on a lot of people, but not necessarily a negative variety. A lot of people had positive things to say about Shaheen. Yeah.
[00:46:58] He seems like he's got a great vibe and a great beard. He's very engaging that I feel like that in some ways I called him new era, Max Dawson in the preseason that he just because of the beard, but also that he is, he is a physical, very loquacious. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. Steven, we've met the three tribes.
[00:47:21] We've talked about it all, but Steven, the week of survivor cannot be complete until you award one player, your coveted fishy award. Hmm. Okay. Well, let's talk this through. Okay. Cause there's a few people who I'm thinking about. Um, so let's, I want your perspective as we, as we just, as we discuss this. Okay. So on the Siva tribe, I think if it had to give it to anybody, it would probably be Camilla, right?
[00:47:51] I mean, you see Camilla is kind of the person who most puts together this alliance of four. Um, you know, we kind of see her create this target in charity. I mean, basically all charity did was sort of throw out Kyle's name and then Camilla kind of gets the group against her. So it seems like, and also does not seem to like make herself a big target in the, in so doing. Um, so I think like on this, if it was going to be someone on the Siva tribe, which I don't think it should be necessarily, but I, you know, I'd love your perspective. Uh, I think it would be Camilla. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:48:19] I 100% agree with that, that Camilla ends up being the person who, from what we see in the episode, you know, she really, Hey, I feel really good about Kyle. And then ends up hearing charity saying Kyle's name and runs with it and ends up sort of like almost by accident with a four person alliance of people that are sort of like, Hey, what's wrong with charity? Yeah. And it's funny that she says, like, I came out here to create chaos or to like, so chaos or whatever she says, but, um, it's an interesting strategy, you know, to sort of like throw out.
[00:48:48] I mean, and that can often like bite you, but I feel like because she doesn't have a chaotic demeanor, you know, I think the person running, sometimes you see people who are like running all over the place, creating chaos. And you're like, Ooh, that person is bad for the tribe. But there is something about someone who's just like throwing out names and, you know, almost like seems positive as she's, she's undermining others. Yeah. It's very, it's very, very subtle game to play. But I think if you look at it from like a real macro view, if you're a Camilla type in
[00:49:15] the game, I think the scenario where Camilla wins the season is like a very chaotic fluid game where big targets are going, going, going, going. And all of a sudden nobody's worrying so much about Camilla and she's able to sort of like from the background kind of little finger this thing. Yeah. And which, you know, there's, there's upside. I do think there's like a little finger upside for, for Camilla. Um, from the Vula tribe, I think like, you know, maybe you could talk about say for sure, right?
[00:49:44] Like SIG drives the strategy on the Vula tribe. She creates this alliance. The alliance sticks. She says, I'm going to go find an idol. She does. She finds the idol. She does, is not, as she struggles to crack at herself, brings in her alliance in a way that really does cement that group and then manages to figure it out herself anyway. You know, I think using a few, like, um, I thought, you know, Cedric had some, some key information, the idea of like, you know, using the number of letters and the color. And then that brings her to the animals on the, on the beach.
[00:50:13] Um, and then of course is ultimately gets her way in getting rid of Stephanie. So, I mean, I think say I would have a good claim to, to, uh, getting the fishy on, on that tribe. What do you think? So, I would love to know from you, cause I was thinking about this in terms of the fishy award and it's your award. So I really have to get inside your head. Is the fishy award more about who won the night or is the fishy award about who has advanced
[00:50:42] their position to win the game? Because I think it's different. Yeah. I mean, it was all sort of like been on the sort of like knife's edge of those two questions. And I've never really wanted to have to clarify one way or the other. Cause I feel like that would be maybe difficult down the line. And sometimes it's like one of those things where like, you know, I gave Kelly now bandy and if she, the episode before she got voted off and it's like, well, she, she seemed to do something really good there. And then it blew up in her face the next episode, you know, because suddenly she was a big target. So it's one of those things where like, I don't want to be held too accountable for my choices.
[00:51:10] You know, I don't want, and I, but, but I, I think vis-a-vis this specific instance, I'm going to side on the idea of like who is making more inroads for their game. Because I think in this case, we can see that as much as say one, the night, she didn't necessarily lay the groundwork to win the game. You know, she has created maybe this like short term, you know, moment of power and control in a way that almost sows its own seeds of destruction in a way that I don't think Kelly now bandy and necessarily did. Although you could argue the contract. Yeah.
[00:51:40] So I think that the other players maybe recognize how good of a position Kelly now bandy and was as opposed to, um, that is something specific that she really, uh, didn't, wasn't, didn't see coming. But Steven, I would actually advocate that. I think the fishy should go to say, I think that part of it is due to a lack of like one specific person that I think did the most to really set themselves up as a, like a law in the longterm game.
[00:52:06] I think we'd really just, uh, be grasping at a sort of like, okay, this person made an alliance, give them the fishy award, as opposed to say. Who did so much, perhaps too much ultimately. But when I watched the episode on Saturday, I really thought that say was playing the game, uh, very hard, very fast. And, and probably I thought it was going to be the person who got voted out.
[00:52:30] But upon my second viewing today, I really feel like that say did a lot of things, right? I think that say came in, started playing fast, built a group, brought people into the group, especially in a, in a group that's a little tight. It's not necessarily that there's anybody else on this group. And this is a little bit of like Nash equilibrium here for say, in being that the one person
[00:52:56] in this group who's willing to play fast and play hard and dictate the action. She ends up finding the idol. There was some conversation about maybe we should blindside say, but ultimately nothing really concrete. I don't think that say is going to be the winner of the season, but I think that say did the most to advance herself for the next couple of weeks. And I feel like that in lieu of any other better options, I would advocate give it to say. Okay. So I have a, I have a response to that and I have another option.
[00:53:26] So first the response, which is that I think say came in so hot that I think she might have blown her game up, you know, in the short term, like not just like, so in terms of like setting up her own game and I haven't seen the episode twice and, and, you know, I probably never will. But you'll read more on Twitter. Yeah, that's true. I will. Yeah. I will read more on Twitter. I gotta say PS, like first night here. So nice. Like it's all like, it's like virgin snow, you know, we're coming in, we're skiing through the powder, you know, like maybe Mike Bloom has a track ahead of us somewhere
[00:53:55] up there, but like, um, you know, it's I'm, I'm, I'm making my own tracks. Um, very, very, very nice. Uh, so, so I think that it was, she came in so hot that I, I, you know, you don't leave this episode thinking, wow, like say is really. Built up a position for herself in her group. You can look at so many other people who have laid better groundwork than, than she has. Um, and, and here is, I just want to like give you, okay. So here is my, my dark horse pitch for Eva. Okay.
[00:54:22] So Eva comes in knowing that, you know, I have these challenges in a big group strategy game. Um, and I am going to work against those challenges. So I just like, like, I have trouble reading people. I have trouble, you know, I, I need a project and need a task. So I am going to like create my own regulation by being the bamboo person. She does it. She's got a smile on her face all the time. You know, getting, having a smile on your face is not like, uh, the, the move of the
[00:54:49] episode, but then she goes to, um, um, uh, the big lug, uh, Joe. And, um, you know, she says she's like correctly identifies this person who she thinks is going to be like an amazing ally and, um, also potentially like help her emotionally and like, you know, help her, you know, so she, she shares the fact that she's autistic with him. She says like, this is outside the game. This is beyond the game. Like, I want you to be my person. I'm not sharing this with other people.
[00:55:19] Um, she tells him physically, you know, the, the signs to look for, for in herself as a way of like keeping herself regulated and like says, like, here's what you can do. And, and they share this like beautiful, beautiful moment to the point that Joe says, I'm willing to sacrifice my own game for her. Now, this is a really, really human moment. And like, I do think that it would minimize it a little bit to like reduce it to strategy. But if you can get in one episode to say someone, I'm willing to take a dive in my game for your game. Like that is good strategy.
[00:55:48] So I think there's a case that this like gorgeous human moment is also probably the person setting herself up as in the best possible way, um, for longevity, um, that, that she can. Well, what, what do you think, Rob? I think you made a compelling case for Eva in terms of that she was not playing, uh, for strategy, but also I think that in terms of she had a plan of, Hey, I need to divulge this information to one person I can trust.
[00:56:17] And that is going to be my path to victory. And she executed on that and found the perfect person to help her the perfect ally for her in Joe. So I could see it. Yeah. I'm going to say, because that this, this human moment was so beautiful and that, you know, I do think it transcended the game, but it was also a part of the game. And therefore I'm giving the fishy to Eva, you know, she created this incredible alliance
[00:56:45] with Joe where Joe was even saying, I'm going to sacrifice my game for you. But even more than that, it was this gorgeous human moment that she, or she acknowledged her own challenges. She, you know, confessed that her difficulties with autism and she, you know, gave him the tools to help her through this game and really seal this really emotional bond. Um, so for, for all those reasons, I think that, uh, that Eva deserves the fishy. Okay. Well done.
[00:57:14] Anything else on your mind for the two hour premiere? Yeah. Let's talk about mud, Rob. And we've talked about mud in the past, but like, especially for the first challenge on a new season of survivor, please no mud, no more mud. I have no idea what's happening. Yeah. I get it. I'm with you. You're trying to like figure out who these people are. And I'm like, what did that? Who said what? Like, I have no idea. And Jeff has talked about it and all the reasons why he likes it. You're being birthed into the game and they work so hard and they do so much to get the
[00:57:44] mud just perfect. So nobody gets hurt. There's not a pebble in there. They make it, they may, it's the perfect mud. They bring it in and they import it and they do everything to make it perfect. But I will say that I, we're just trying to meet these people and it is very hard to tell who they are when they are covered in mud on the first day. Yes. I mean like, and this is the kill your darling, you know, like the kill your darlings thing. Jeff, kill your darlings. You know, they think you tell writers. Could we baptize them with water? Could we have a, like you go into mud and then they, and then you have to swim through
[00:58:14] water. So then you go into the mud, but then the mud comes off and then we go back to knowing who they are. Can we compromise? A viscous goo, like a viscous goo would be great. You know, like, yeah, like a gelatin or something, you know, that could be a slime. And then, okay. And then it's sort of like a wash off. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, you've got to like, I get it when you're making something, I get it too. I understand with all the craft that goes into it, but just from the viewer's perspective, it's not a pleasant experience. It's a little hard to figure out who they are. We'll get there eventually, but you know, it's a little bit like, who is that?
[00:58:44] Yeah. I don't know how Jeff knows who they are. The first challenge of the first episode, you know, it's like. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, Steven, this was a great conversation about Survivor 48. Do we still got it? I think, I think we do. I think we still got it. 15 years later, you know? Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, let me tell you a little bit about what else we have going on.
[00:59:07] And of course, with Rob as a podcast, it is the great joy of my professional life to get to bring all this stuff to you. And we'd love to have you here. Part of this conversation. Steven, Survivor is better when you have a tribe. That's what I always say. We'd love to have you here. Part of this community. Head on over to Rob's website.com slash patron to see about all the different ways that you
[00:59:34] can be involved with what we have going on from all of the stuff, all of the bonus content that we do. I have the patron Q&A that I do on Friday. You can call in and ask your Survivor strategic questions. Plus, also, it's the 15-year anniversary of Survivor Heroes vs. Villains. Josh Wiggler and I have been rewatching Survivor Heroes vs. Villains. We just talked about Heroes vs. Villains episode three, which first aired this past Tuesday.
[01:00:02] And you can see all that and more in our patron feed at robinswebsite.com slash patron. Then, we know Survivor. You better believe it. Go to weknowsurvivor.com to subscribe for our Survivor podcast feed, where you'll get all of our Survivor podcasts, not just the stuff that I am putting out here on the RHAP main feed, but also shows like The B&B, Why Blank Loss, Survivor Global, Survivor News with Bryson Wendt, anything else that we have Survivor-related.
[01:00:30] It's all at weknowsurvivor.com. Steven, the live show is back. We are back on the road, Steven. Wow. Back in Boston. And you can be there. And, of course, you can get a ticket to that event. Now, I have to be frank, okay? The patrons of Robins Podcast were savages. They bought up all the good tickets. Jerks. And that's their privilege. That's their right.
[01:00:59] As a patron of Robins Podcast, they get the early access. But we still have tickets. If you want to be there with us in Boston, robinswebsite.com slash Boston to be there with us on April 9th. Then, the traders. Steven, have you kept up with the season of the traders? No spoilers? Okay. No. It's been a great season. That's what everybody says. Lots of twists and turns. Tomorrow night, I'll be back with Puyasam Akili after the episode to talk about everything that's going on.
[01:01:26] If you want our traders coverage, you know where to find it at weknowtraders.com. And then, Steven, I've been talking about, of course, Mike White's The White Lotus, where Godfather Carl and Natalie Cole pop up in the premiere. And if you want to catch Josh Wiggler and I talking about The White Lotus, you can hear that and much, much more over at weknowscriptedtv.com. Hmm. So great to have Wiggler. I know Wiggler has been doing scripted forever. Forever.
[01:01:55] But, you know, great to have him. It's so fun to have Wiggler back into Survivor. You know, he brings such joy and energy and high-pitched warbling. It just really adds so much to the whole thing. Yeah. Tons of great coverage over there. He's talking about Severance, which is going on as well. And I'm also recapping Paradise, which is... People love Paradise. I love Paradise so much. You love Paradise. Yeah, it's mostly you who love Paradise. I love it so much that episode several this week of Paradise was a banger and a half. I'm not going to say anything else about that. All right.
[01:02:25] Steven, what else... Wait, oh, two things. Two things. Two things. First of all, how... Let's talk about one last thing about Stephanie. How did she get a sun hat? My God. What an advantage to have in this game. I mean, it turned out to not be such an advantage, but like a sun hat. Mm-hmm. That's unbelievable. Yeah. Future players take note. You know, try to find a way to work a sun hat into your wardrobe. Okay. But just because... For the sun or is there another purpose? Yeah, for the sun. Okay. You can hide an idol up there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, it's bright. You know, keep your... I guess, you know, anyway. Yeah.
[01:02:54] Secondly, I have a novel coming out in a year, like about a year from now, which sounds like a long time, but it's actually quite short, according to my editor. What can people do to get ready? Thanks. I'm glad you asked. I have really done a very cursory job of preparing for this. Um, so at stephenfishback.com, I have done a very rudimentary email signup form. If you would like to sign up for my newsletter, I don't have a newsletter, but like, I'll email you when the book comes out. Be like, hey, by the way, please buy this book.
[01:03:24] So sign up, you know, I'm not going to bother you with newsletters. I'm, you know, I'm not going to be harassing you. But you've got one that's full of substance and like interesting things that I enjoy reading. But we'll tell people when your book comes out. Yeah. I'll tell people when a book comes out, you know, I'm not going to spam you. You know, it's not going to be like, you know, some, some annoying newsletter. It'll be a great newsletter. All right. Stephenfishback.com. Once a year, you'll be getting an email from me. Yeah. Okay. And then if you want to chat all week long, Stephen and I and all the survivor glitterati
[01:03:53] are rubbing elbows and you can be there to go to robhiswebsite.com slash VIP chat to hang out. I think I'm too active on chat. I think I need to like tone it down. I think I'm like too active on chat BCC. Yeah. Well, look, it just got started. Everybody's excited. So come on and hang out with us there. Robhiswebsite.com slash VIP chat. Thank you so much for joining us. We love to read. I read all the comments on YouTube. So I love to hear what you have to say, whether you like the show or not. I read it all. Love to hear what you have to say on our YouTube channel. Thank you so much.
[01:04:22] Make sure you hit subscribe and make sure you subscribe to the podcast for another fun season of RHAP. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye. Bye.