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[00:01:21] The smartest guys around are about to break it down like they've won the game a million times. At all? Survivor, no way to...
[00:02:11] Podcast chads are back tonight to talk about what a wild episode of Survivor. Wow. And sometimes you get pizza takeout and sometimes the pizza man gets taken out in a very unprecedented fashion. Steven Fishback, how are you? Yeah, what an intense like 10 minutes of television. I did not see that coming. I was like, okay, what? I did not see that coming.
[00:02:38] I was like, oh, maybe there'll be like, you know, one vote for Justin there. You know, wouldn't that be kooky? And then it's like a vote and a re-vote and a new re-vote and the whole thing. Like the mechanics of Survivor are being like, this is a never before happened situation where, Cedric, you have to have a conversation with yourself. It's intense, right? Where it's like, I mean, we have been doing this podcast for what? This is year 13 of doing this podcast. And I'm like, wait, what's happening now?
[00:03:08] Can you break it down, Rob? Like what just happened? Let's do that. Okay. All right, that's coming up. We will do that. It's very fun to talk about. It was a slow motion car crash, which ultimately results in Justin, my winner pick, being out of the game. Let's talk about did he just get totally hosed? Was there anything he could have done? I'm really excited. He self-hosed a bit. Yeah, well, I'm looking forward to breaking it all down. Let me tell you about what's coming up.
[00:03:35] Of course, an exit interview with Justin coming up on Thursday. Be on the lookout for that. Then, big week on the podcast. I get to talk to my great friend, Asia Welch, this week. And my great friend, Abby Maria. Yes, yes. Okay. So Asia is coming tomorrow. I'm going to talk to Abby Maria on Tuesday.
[00:03:56] So in the meantime, plenty more for you over at WeKnowSurvivor.com, where you can hear tons of coverage about this very exciting night. All right, Steven. What do you talk to Abby about when you have her on the podcast? Oh, I love talking to an Abby Maria. And Abby Maria. But what about the Abby Maria? The Abby Maria? I feel like that she's a dream podcast guest. I believe that.
[00:04:25] But just, I feel like I have to ask just a couple of questions and she's going to do the rest. She goes. Yeah. She goes. Some of these people, I really got to like, you know, pry it out of them. She's incredible. Are you talking about me? No, not talking about you. Okay. Okay, Steven, let's talk about this tribal council, which really I felt like was headed into the direction of, I thought we might see a 1-1-1 vote. I thought that Cedric was going to vote for Mary.
[00:04:54] I thought Mary was going to put her vote on Justin and that Mary was going to vote for Say. Like, I thought that we had this weird sort of like, okay, all these people vote. And I thought we were maybe going to have a tie vote there. But everything changes once Justin loses his vote and then Mary hits the shot in the dark. The second time ever, right, that it saved someone in danger. Yes. Third time ever that it's come in. Third time come up, but second time ever that it's actually mattered.
[00:05:21] The first one being Caleb when he had what it was like 13-0 at the merge, right, for that tribal council. Yes. So, yeah, we don't need to get the exact numbers, right, but whatever. Yeah, 12-12. Sorry to a lot of people who are shouting about what the number was. I apologize. Yeah. It was a lot. Anyway. 13 was more of like a metonymy. So Mary ends up, and I'd love to talk more about Mary, but the story right now is Justin and ultimately how this plays out.
[00:05:49] And so then there ends up being only two people voting. And this was shades of that tribal council, another green tribe, I believe, back in Survivor 42, when it was Daniel Strunk and High in that other big standoff where only two people had voted. Where Mike Turner. Daniel Strunk, also a Yale alum, you know, Yale law alum. Mm-hmm. You know, now he didn't go home, but he did like ends up destroying his game. Yeah. They say history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. It rhymes. And I kind of felt that a little bit here.
[00:06:18] You think there's some sort of Yale curse? Well, I don't think there's a curse. It's just, you know, sometimes these overly cerebral players, they play themselves out of the game a little bit. Yeah. All right. So we end up with Jess Cedric and Say. They ultimately vote for Mary. And then Mary's- Which that itself was a surprise. Because Say the whole time is like, I know that either Mary has something or she's going to play her shot in the dark. I don't want to go home because of that. That's basically, that's exactly what happens. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She was right. Well, can I just say one thing?
[00:06:49] And Say did incredible things at this tribal council, but I feel like that Say had a little bit of stolen valor at the tribal council. In that she really claimed to take a lot of ownership of like, see, I knew. I knew it. I knew. Like Say, your thing was that she actually had an idol. Like that- But she knew something was going to go wrong. She was like, and it was her on the line. I knew something was going to go wrong. That's the thing that like, she wasn't like, I've got a bad feeling about it. I was saying, hey, like, she was like, we got to split the votes.
[00:07:18] It's me, my name coming up. If something happens, like, I don't want it to be me. You know, I thought that was legit. Like, give her some leeway here. You know, if she had put her vote- I'm going to give her credit later, but no, not for this. Because she thought that Mary actually had the idol. Yeah. That was what she was telling Cedric. And Cedric's like, ah, I don't think she has anything. She's done shot in the dark. Yeah. Well, she didn't say, I know she's going to hit the shot in the dark. Yeah. But she knew. She knew the vibes were off. Yeah. All right.
[00:07:47] Anyway, so- A little air sign. Okay. She didn't air sign. Air sign move. Okay. He is just an innocent bystander at this tribal council. And now there are no votes. And now Cedric and Say have to go re-vote. And I'm like, oh, sad story for Justin. Right. That Cedric and Say are going to go vote for Justin.
[00:08:15] But it seemed like here they didn't even know yet that Justin was not the one who voted. Like here, so the votes were for Say and for Justin. So, but like at this point, it seems like Say is still not sure who voted for her, whether it was Cedric or Justin, right? Yeah. It seems like that that becomes clear after we have that tie break. Now, I thought this was wild that Cedric went in there and voted for Justin.
[00:08:44] And then I guess- Per Say. I'm sorry. Voted for Say in that spot. And then ultimately flipped his vote. I don't know. And I really was thinking like, oh, hey, like Cedric, you're going to be drawing rocks in a second here, my guy. But it seems like that part of like, okay, these people are safe because of the tiebreaker didn't end up happening really at all. Only if Cedric couldn't make a decision. Right. Well, he had to like draw rocks with himself.
[00:09:10] Because in this scenario with Daniel Strunk and High, that there was a tie between, was it what, Chanel and Jenny? And then ultimately that they needed to- Lydia. Lydia, right? Or was Lydia on the block here? Okay. Yeah. That's- Yeah. Lydia, because Chanel didn't have a vote. Mike didn't have a vote. And I think it was like Lydia and Jenny. You're right. Yeah. Lydia and Jenny. And then one of them had to flip their vote or they were going to have to go to
[00:09:37] rocks and High was saying, I'll go to rocks for my person. Daniel was like, I'm not going to rocks. He was like, I'm not going to go to rocks. And then ultimately ends up having to flip his vote. This is that Yale style of negotiation. Dan Strunk says, I'm not going to rocks. Justin's like, whatever. Do it. Do what you want. I'm not going to argue. I'm not going to argue on behalf of myself. It's this, you know, noblesse oblige. But, you know. Is that Latin? I don't know. Yeah. I don't even really know. I don't think that's relevant here. Okay. All right.
[00:10:04] I think that's actually totally, you know, just came to mind and it was the wrong, wrong phrase. So I, my mind was blown that we had Cedric and Say voting differently. And then I thought that Say does a really masterful job of where it seems like that Cedric is pretty locked in of, hey, I gave Justin my word. And she brings up the fact, did you know that Justin did not have his vote? Yeah. Which he didn't.
[00:10:33] And she, she was like, I mean, because Cedric was going to send her home, like unquestionably. He voted for her both times on the revotes. He was saying like, I'm sorry. Sorry about this. You know, Justin was my number one first ally on the beach. First conversation. Surely you as a gamer understand that. And she like does not back down. She's like, how could you? I'm so hurt by this. Like he, this guy is lying to you. You didn't know about this. How could you be with someone who has been lying to you?
[00:11:02] I've been totally honest with you. And then he turns to Justin. It's like, well, Justin, what's your case? And he's like, you do what you have to do. Like he made it easy for Cedric to vote him out. Like he like off ramp. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, in that like emotionally volatile situation, you know, even if Cedric prefers Justin and I think Justin must've thought like, he's going to stick with me. I don't want to like put the screws in him. Like he's already voted for me, you know, voted against say twice. I don't need to like twist the knife here. And he's going to stick with me.
[00:11:31] So I don't need to, you know, like, let's just like, let it happen and not do any kind of emotional manipulation. Yeah. The wrong mode, the wrong choice, like unequivocally. And he could have at least like argued, no, like, this is why I lied to you. I believe it. Like I, I got you, you know, like there was the situation I couldn't, you know, it was last minute. I didn't want to like throw things into, you know, into a mess. And I was going to tell you about this. And I'm so sorry to let it happen again, at least like argue your, argue back. I'm thinking the same thing. I'll only give Justin a grain of salt here.
[00:12:00] Oh, that when we hear from him tomorrow, like how maybe was this like an hour of debate that went back and forth? And then he said this at one point, did he have, did he have other arguments that got cut out of the episode? Perhaps that's the only thing I could think of because otherwise it seems like this was a total just lay down and die for say. I mean, that's definitely like an interview. That's not canonical for the show. Whatever, you know, whatever they say, like, I don't know. It doesn't matter to me. Like whatever actually happened, who knows?
[00:12:30] But like, no, but that's a very good question. Like, what did you say? I mean, I'm sure that's what you'll be asking him. Yeah. Because it seems like that this was total surrender move from Justin. But also you have to give Chris A credit. It wasn't Justin not doing anything. It was say really like it was both things. Yeah. But say does an incredible job and get Cedric. And you have this moment. This was such a great survivor story. And I'm almost disappointed that we're going to get the swap next week because I need to see Mary and say on the same drive.
[00:12:58] Hopefully they get swapped together where Cedric's like, okay, if I keep you this, we got to fix this. Yeah. We got to fix this. Is this like a Jay Adam thing? You know, their rivals are working against each other, but they also sort of respect each other and bro down. Yeah. This is great. I'm ready for put say and Mary on the amazing race. You cowards. I would watch that. Who cares about Big Brother? I'd probably not resist the amazing race, but I would like, you know, support that. You'd watch it. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:13:28] What a great, what a fun, what a truly like though, what a such a fun dynamic and like so great that they both like are like, you know, giving respect to each other because these kind of relationships can turn acrimonious very fast. I mean, what a great moment too, when Mary, the first time Mary was off swimming and say his initial instinct before she even goes, you know, second tier and thinks, oh my gosh, what does this mean? Does she have the idol? She says, it looks like she needs some space. And like, you know, compared to, I've seen some say Rome comparisons online and that was what Rome did not do. Right?
[00:13:55] Like Rome did not give Saul the space he needed when Saul was on the outs, when Saul was on the bottom. And here is say like giving that grace to Mary before then she sort of like kicks it into overdrive. It's like, what does this mean? But it was just like so fun. This was so fun where that Mary, I think liked being chased by say and say like chasing her. It was like, I kind of like this. This is fun. It's like a game of tag. Yeah. Yeah. Let these toxic people be friends. Come on.
[00:14:25] They weren't even being toxic. They were just being like fun and supportive. Toxic is probably the wrong word. Yeah. But that these fiery personalities, they're attracted to each other. Yeah. It was great. Air signs. Probably. I don't know what Mary is. We don't know. We don't know. But Steven, do you think could this duo come together ultimately? Wouldn't that be great? Wouldn't that be a story? I mean, Jeff said the theme of the season is duos. Partnerships. Yeah. Partnerships.
[00:14:51] I mean, this is, you know, we've got the Camilla and Kyle and, you know, there's a bunch, but. Well, I know. But like, you know, the top one, I feel like the top duo we said was the Camilla and Kyle duo. But this is up there as a top duo. Yeah. So Mary, I thought. And Thomas and Bianca too. Had such an interesting trajectory throughout this episode where it seemed like that she was, I really thought the episode was going to end up going in the direction where that
[00:15:19] her bluffing that she had the idol was going to be what saved her. Yeah. Me too. I thought like Justin was going to get a vote and then something was going to happen. And that was going to like Mary, Mary was going to vote for Justin and say he was going to vote for Justin and Justin was going to go out because of that. Yeah. Ultimately. So tell me, let's talk about Justin a little bit. So he makes this choice not. Well, first of all, let's talk about Yahtzee a little bit. How did you feel about the Yahtzee of it all?
[00:15:45] I have to say when it started, I was like, eh, I don't know about this, but I thought it moved pretty quick. And I thought that there was no agency. Like there was no, nothing the players could do. There were no choices they were making. This was a tough spot for Justin because when I said that what I liked about the journey in the last game is I could opt in if I want to play on the journey by putting out five fingers. I don't have to necessarily go. But here this is, all right, where, and we've seen this plenty of times in the new era where,
[00:16:12] okay, pick a person who's going to get to go. And they lost the challenge. The decision is out of his hands. It's completely determined by fate and luck. And really, Justin, other than roll the dice better, there's nothing he could have done to prevent losing his vote. Yeah. That's why I don't love the dice game specifically because it's, there's no choice it's not, you'd say you screwed up, you know, like maybe he made himself a viable pick somehow,
[00:16:42] you know, to the loggy. But yeah. Yeah. So I would say that the one thing that he could have done, and I don't even think that this ultimately saves him. I think this might've just been, you know, his destiny to go out in this spot. Yeah. And we could talk about, should he have kept Kevin in the game from last week? That's potentially something. But when we saw this with Thomas and Bianca, and I want to float a new survivor theory at you. Oh, okay. You know, I love a good survivor theory.
[00:17:11] When you have good news, like Thomas did last week, keep it a secret. If you have bad news, share it with your ally. But nobody believes, oh, I guess like people do believe, yeah, share with your ally. Yes. They'll believe the bad news. That's interesting. I like that. Which is like what Thomas and Bianca are the two examples here of Thomas had good news. Didn't even share it with his closest ally. Bianca had bad news, shared it with Thomas.
[00:17:40] Like, hey, I need help. I lost my vote. Justin and Cedric seemed like that they really did have a bond, but Justin kept it a secret from Cedric. Now, I don't know what happens in that scenario where Justin has shared with Cedric that he doesn't have his vote. Everything plays out in the same scenario. Does Cedric still flip his vote there to take out Justin?
[00:18:08] That's where I think that's what gave, say, Purchase, right? Like she was obviously going for the emotional appeal here. But what gave her appeal bite was the fact that there was something mechanical that Justin had done, right? Like if it was just like, oh, like we're friends. Like what about me? You know, there's no real there there. But she can say he lied to you. He did this thing. It's like in Clock Tower. It's like, you know, in Clock Tower, it's all social reads. But if there's something mechanical there, you know, someone like, oh, but you said the Sheffield intro was one and here it's a two.
[00:18:36] You know, then you're like, now I'm really suspicious of you. So I think the fact that he did have this mechanical. There was this like thing that he did. I think that is what ultimately doomed him because otherwise it's just like, you know, it's just words. Yeah. And Justin has no way of knowing that ultimately it's going to come down to this. You know, Mary is going to hit the shot in the dark. But I think that telling Cedric, I think that the night had more possibilities to go his
[00:19:03] way when he tells his if him and Cedric were as close as he has presented or as it seemed in the episode. I think he needs to tell Cedric he lost his vote. And it's like, Cedric, help me figure this out. What do we do? So not to like, you know, jump the gun here, but would you say that Camilla and Mitch, you know, based on your new theory of you keep good news to yourself, you share bad news. You know, what is the are you saying that for the Siva tribe, you know, them all sharing their advantages?
[00:19:31] Is that is that going to hurt Camilla and Mitch? I think that's a fair question. And I was thinking about this earlier when I first had this shower thought, but I would say it's the I'm trying to think of the every tribe has its own sort of like rules in like its own sort of, you know, trajectory. And when Mitch came back and shared in that group of like, hey, I got the advantage. Here's what I did.
[00:20:00] I think that Camilla has to follow suit because that's what's already been established as the norm in that tribe. But I think that probably just as a general rule, I kind of like what Thomas said where hey, if I can keep this good news, this advantage to myself, I should do it. If I can like share my bad news with my trusted allies, I think that that is how you should do it because they can they can help you navigate that bad situation. And maybe you could build trust with somebody who's trying to protect you.
[00:20:30] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That makes sense. So, yeah, I mean, I definitely think it was I mean, well, it was certainly we know now that it was a huge mistake for Justin, you know, but his thinking was I don't want to frazzle Cedric, Cedric, you know, and there's so little time you get back and there's he probably had like 20 minutes, you know, to you know, you don't want to come in, throw everything into disarray and then everyone goes to tribal council. No clue what's going on. Yeah. Look, that was the risk. But, you know, Cedric didn't seem frazzled when he said, hey, Justin, the next time I see you, it will be at Luigi's.
[00:21:01] You're fired. Yeah. He's a surgeon. I mean, you know, this guy, this guy is like used to being in pressure cooker situations. Well, I thought that that was such an interesting spot for Cedric to be in where it's like, OK, you know, one of these patients, you save one. You're you're you're you're in this spot, Cedric. So Sophie's choice. It was. And it was a really great moment at this tribal council where, you know, I like that Cedric just had to, like, make the call right there. He didn't go. I'll go get the vote.
[00:21:26] Like, I thought this was really an amazing tribal council. Do you think that Justin, like, why when he's like Cedric say, I'll make my choice on one condition. You two figure it out. Like, shouldn't Justin at this point be like, wait, hold up. I got more to say. I got more to say. Cedric, they're never going to get along. Yeah. They can't get along. Yeah. You know, he's just sitting there like this is his opportunity, his moment to like plead his case. There must have been more that Justin just does not seem like somebody that he's just
[00:21:56] gave up. And that's kind of how it got presented at the tribal council. But I didn't think he sort of get I think he thought it was going to go his way. Initially thought it was going to go his way. He didn't want to, like, you know, emotionally manipulate Cedric. And then when it was not going his way, he was like, you know, maybe had some dignity about him. Like, I was like, I'm no, well, this is how it is. You know, you know, that's kind of a. Yeah, maybe he's too proud. Yeah. Well, not proud. I don't know. Just. Yeah. Let's go. Just go back to Justin's earlier decisions in the game because he really was in like a
[00:22:25] bad spot here. There wasn't a ton that he could have controlled other than tell Cedric that he lost his vote. Go back to the Kevin vote from last week. Which Justin really led. I mean, he was the one who once they came to him. Justin was the one who flipped the fastest. Right. Instead of saying, yeah, like, oh, yeah, Kevin. Kevin's devious. He said, OK, let's get Kevin. Let's get him now. Yeah. So is there enough there to say that, OK, in hindsight, that was the wrong decision? I mean, that's such a tricky one. Right.
[00:22:54] Because, of course, if he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have gone home. But I mean, it was such an like this was an insanely unusual tribal council. Like you're making a bet that someone shot. You're going to lose your vote. And there's going to be a shot in the dark that hits, you know, and like the new era, baby. Yeah, exactly. I don't think, you know, given that that was the exact series of circumstances that led to Justin's out of store and basically almost no other situation would he have gone home. You know, I feel like you can't say you shouldn't have voted out Kevin last week.
[00:23:21] Yeah, it's really tough to, like, go back and think it through that just Justin could have seen that they would go to tribal council again. And but he knew that Mary and say or below him in the pecking order. He had two people below him in the pecking order. Yeah. Which we like have verifiable proof of because Mary was the target. And then say was going to be the one who Cedric voted for say twice over Justin. Yeah. And he cannot see foresee that he's going to go on the challenge and lose his vote.
[00:23:50] He said, I don't even want to risk my vote that I'm in a small tribe. I need my vote. And it's probably unlikely that you would think that you go on a journey back to back episode cycles where there was just a journey in episode two. So it is almost unforeseeable that, OK, Mary hits the shot in the dark. You figure, OK, then Mary's one or then. Well, I guess maybe could he have thought that if Mary plays a shot in the dark and hits it there, I guess he thought him and Cedric will vote out say in that spot. Right.
[00:24:20] Exactly. Even if that happened, like they would have the votes to be where he would be safe. Yeah. So, yeah, this was a series of unfortunate events for Justin, for sure. You know, like I blame him. And only the thing you can blame is kind of not speaking up and making more of an appeal to Cedric. And, you know, your argument is that so that's on the cutting room floor somewhere. I'm saying that that's the only thing that I could possibly see. Yeah. But we'll find out tomorrow.
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[00:25:47] Visit BetterHelp.com slash RHAP today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash RHAP. Steven, so let's talk about where these people end up going from here. That Cedric, Mary, Say end up now going to swap tribes next week. First off, do you think- What's kind of fun is that they all actually have sort of good blood between them. You know?
[00:26:13] Like, a lot of the times you think, well, Mary is going to be against Say now for sure. But they actually seem to kind of have a good relationship. Like, you can absolutely see them working together. Well, we have some precedent in Survivor 45 where then it was Sean, Caleb, and Emily that survived the Lulu disaster, which is the last time we had a pre-merged tribe swap in the new era. And so those three were probably on, like, pretty decent enough terms coming out of that situation.
[00:26:42] And they end up, I think, each of them is on a different tribe. Right. But we have 15, so presumably we'll go to three tribes of five here for the next couple of episodes. And it's really going to be interesting to see who is in the best position to rebound. Yeah. I feel like, I don't know. I mean, they're all lovely in their own ways. I think Mary seems like the person who, okay, she got off on the wrong foot.
[00:27:11] She's going to be the person who's, like, so excited to be out of her tribe. Like, oh, you're not going to believe me how bad it was. And she's got the story, right? She's got her shot in the dark story. Like, that's the verifiable story of I was eliminated except for my shot in the dark. Whereas the other two, you know, she's going to seem like the outcast. They tried to vote me out. I'm ready to jump ship. I had to play my shot in the dark. You know, I think she's the person where you're, like, looking at her, like, oh, please, like, join our numbers. Yeah, totally.
[00:27:41] So Mary is actually set up, I think, pretty well for a tribe swap. Yeah, I'm excited. I think Mary's got longevity. I mean, I think they all could. I mean, you know, I think they all have longevity in the game. Yeah. Say I'm a little worried about coming into a new group if she doesn't have the numbers. Like, I feel like that that might not be, like, a great spot for her coming into a group that might have a majority where I'm not sure necessarily if she has to go on a charm offensive.
[00:28:06] Like, we've seen her, like, be able to play fast and establish a great position. But if she has to play from the bottom and sort of, like, be the person who's going to win over a group, I think that she could be a likely candidate to be of the swap-screwed persuasion. The only counter-argument I'll make to that is that I think, like, Say episode one, like, came in very hot. You know, there's a lot going on with Say. I think she's chilled out a lot. And that happens. Like, I did that in Cambodia.
[00:28:36] I came in hot. Like, you're like, I don't get all these moves I'm going to do. And then, like, the game kind of takes its toll. It wears you down. And then you sort of, and, like, all three of these people have been to Tribal Council three times. And, you know, we talk all the time about how, you know, there's no experience for Tribal Council like going to Tribal Council. That this kind of, you know, they're battle-tested. They're fire-hardened. You know, so I can see Say being a very, you know, savvy operator moving forward. What do you think about Cedric post-swap? Yeah. I mean, you know, he's a great guy. Seems like he's, you know, trusted.
[00:29:05] I feel like he'll get along. He seems to be able to get along with basically everybody. You know, he seems, like, very empathetic. He seems trustworthy. I don't think people are going to be, like, hugely threatened by him. You know, so I actually, you know, truly, I think they all could do decently. You know, we just don't have a ton of precedent for how these Tribe swaps can go in the new era. In Survivor 45, I think we had the Tribe swap. And it was that we had, I'm trying to remember what Tribal Council. So Sean quit.
[00:29:34] Sifu was going to get voted out. Right. And Sean ended up quitting to sort of, like, hijack that Tribal Council. And then Brando got voted out. And Brando was sort of, he was down in the numbers. I'm trying to think of, it was, he was just with one person from his original tribe. And then Emily ended up wanting to go with Austin and Drew. Yeah, Emily went with, like, Drew and Austin. Yeah, exactly. He was with Kendra in that group. Yeah. And then Kendra kind of got blindsided on that vote.
[00:29:59] So there's not a lot to go off of in how the Tribes are looking at the Tribe swap before we get to potentially mergatory. Yeah. I mean, the only thing is that we know that Siva and Loggi see each other as rivals. So we've certainly seen that dynamic before where the two undefeated tribes or the two dominant tribes are worried about each other. And they're not worried about, you know, little Vula here. That's not going to, you know, bother anybody. So let's forget about them. And, like, you know, let's bring the Vula numbers onto our side. That's interesting.
[00:30:27] So you feel like that the Vula is set up a little bit to be kingmakers here where it might be where Siva and Loggi are trying to get the jump on the other's numbers? I mean, we've seen that over and over again, that exact thing. I mean, you know, certainly in Survivor 44 with the Three Stooges, you know, we, we, we, uh, I mean, and we probably would have seen that a little bit more in Survivor 45 because Caleb was like such a, you know, such a, like a dynamo. He just, like, stood out, you know, he was just, like, tall and handsome and charming. It was, like, too much.
[00:30:54] If Caleb had been, like, you know, like a little bit less, you know, that they probably would have done better. Yeah. Okay. Steven, I really want to talk about the situation that we have on Loggi where, okay, episode starts and everybody's sort of down and Joe's going to make a big bonfire for everybody. And at this bonfire, we have a moment where Eva ends up giving a bracelet to Joe for his daughter in front of the tribe. Hmm.
[00:31:24] I mean, very sweet moment. Not the best strategic move. Yeah, but that's, that's what we, right? Like, you're not going to, like, she's not, like, thinking about that. Yeah. I thought this was a rough episode for Eva. And, of course, we all know the adversity that Eva has in the game. But she has two pretty bad moments in this episode. Right. The giving the gift to Joe in front of the tribe, this is Survivor 101 bad.
[00:31:55] Right. Don't give gifts to Joe. Don't give gifts in front of everybody. Yeah. Because people are always like, oh, she didn't give me a thing. Right. But the thing is, I mean, it's such nonsense. Like, you know, Thomas and Bianca know that they're their number ones. You know, they're probably, you know, they're giving the gift of information to each other. Yeah. No greater gift on Survivor. No greater gift than information. Knowledge is power for sure. But, of course, like, you know, it's so public and it becomes a thing. And then you also have to think because of its innocence almost, because of its sweetness,
[00:32:24] they're not going to betray each other. Like, even Thomas and Bianca have to think, well, at some point, you know, there's that their relationship feels a little more maybe transactional, maybe not fully. I mean, we know that Thomas is withholding information from Bianca. Yeah. Whereas with this Joe Eva thing, it's like so innocent and genuine and kind that like, oh, got to give her that. Well, I think you have that compounded with, okay, so then you could sort of write it off
[00:32:51] of like Eva is just so pure that she is giving Joe a gift in front of everybody. She just, she loves Joe. What a big heart Eva has. But then we see that, okay, but then now Eva is playing the game and Eva goes to Star and tells Star like, hey, do we need two brainiacs on the tribe? And Eva does not foresee that Star is going to go immediately and run this back to Bianca
[00:33:18] and Thomas and Star gets the opening that she's been waiting for where Thomas, who wanted to throw away the cipher to the figure out the idol is like, no, now we have to help Star. Star won the two brainiacs. She's like, I start. It's like, yeah, I do need two brainiacs to help me get my vote back. And now here's my, oh, go ahead. Yeah. Okay. I think I know where you're going to go, but yes, Star ends up winning them over. They're like, yeah, we need to get out Eva. Is this actually going to play out?
[00:33:47] Is this just like tribe? Here's the interesting things that are happening on Loggi or are these kind of hostilities going to end up really playing out? Okay. Well, we're going to get the tribe swap. So I think we're going to get maybe them play out with a couple of these participants on a different. I thought you were going to ask like, okay, if Star gets swapped to another tribe, what's going to happen to her? Here's my prediction, Steven. My, here's my, I'm going to look at my crystal ball.
[00:34:16] Episode four is going to open with Thomas and Bianca figuring out how to solve the beware advantage. Star is going to get her vote back and then we're going to tribe swap. Makes sense. I think that's a good prediction. I think so. Because we'll see. Well, I mean, we'll see how it goes. It would be hilarious to see somebody get the beware advantage. It's like, I lost my vote and the idol is on a different beach. Is there something mechanical there?
[00:34:44] Like where they're not, like they can't tribe swap if they're like, or you only lose your vote while you're on this beach. Is there anything like that? I don't think so. Not that I know of. Oh, wow. So it would be quite a predicament for Star. Yeah. They should add like a little, you know, like a little proviso. Yeah. And now it may work out where I think you lose your vote until the merge. And so Star may not even go to tribal council for the next two votes. And so maybe it's like a much ado about nothing. Yeah.
[00:35:10] I mean, could Star keep the cipher and then, I hope I'm using the right cryptics. If she keeps the thing and then ends up like talking with like a Camilla and or say, and it's like, oh, my word was enlist. My word was silent. Or my word. You think she'll get listened from that? Could she piece it together? Like, does she have to be on her beach? No, right? That would be cool. That would be a very fun way for it to happen. Yeah. So, all right.
[00:35:39] We'll see what happens with Star. But big night, I thought, for Star to bounce back. Oh, yeah. Great night for Star. Slow start. And now she seems to, you know, I feel like everybody's, it's an interesting tribe. It's a really fun tribe. What did you think of the bonfire? Was that fun? I just kind of felt like that, boy, this is, we're using up a lot of firewood on the bonfire, Joe. They got an axe. They can have as much fire. They're in a jungle. Yeah. But still, you got to use. They get as much firewood as they want. You got to burn calories to do that. Yeah, that's true. There's a lot of, but you know, he's got the energy.
[00:36:09] My gosh. Yeah. And my, what a performance in the challenge. That was uncanny where he's just like, whoosh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right? So what do you think that is? Is that he memorized where the things are? Yeah. I kind of feel like in the blindfold challenge, I feel like they spin you around. Did he just like memorize the layout? Yeah. He just memorized the layout. There was one more like maze where like, that we had in Token Chains, where JT, like, as that's not how my brain works, but apparently there are people whose brain works out like that.
[00:36:35] Like, as we walked in, he saw the maze and then like, it was like our final five or whatever, right? He clocked it. It was him versus coach and then JT won and took me to the feast. Yeah. Um, and yeah, he like, just like immediately had it, like, just like walking in. I'll bet there was something like that with Joe where he just kind of like, that's how his brain worked. It's like, you know, so he just like had it in his head. Yeah. All right. Let's, uh, talk over on the Siva tribe. Uh, not too much going on over there. Big night for Mitch. Big night for Mitch.
[00:37:04] I mean, you know, I mean, is it a Wednesday? Yeah. Every, every week, a big night for Mitch. It was, um, yeah. I mean, you know, Mitch, who we thought was a little bit outcast with this charity alliance makes inroads. He goes out on a boat with Kyle and, you know, pitches their alliance. And now Kyle suddenly is all in on that. And Kyle's thinking now I'm in the center of these two groups. We've got Kyle, Mitch, charity, and David. And then there's the Siva four. What if Mitch called them the Siva four?
[00:37:33] You know, can you, does, does, does, does Kyle at that point have to object? It's like, no, no, let's call ourselves something. There's an exist. There's already a. No, I think that's perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's calling themselves the Siva four. It's not, you can't just call yourself like the tribe name number because there's got a, there's going to, it's very confusing. There can be a lot of overlap. Sure. It's confusing, but I think that you could use that confusion to your advantage. But I feel like that's something that we say after the fact, you know, when we're watching it, like you guys are the Siva four, we dub you, you don't dub yourself the Siva four. Yeah. We're like the warrior alliance. We're the, the, the three stooges.
[00:38:02] So like they didn't call it like world war one while it was going on. Exactly. It needs to be written by the history books that that was the Siva four. Yeah. You've got to come up with some like evocative name and then we will dub you if you are, you know, the Siva four or not. Yeah. Because there might be a better four. I feel like the row two four was the row two four while it was happening. They call themselves the row two four? I believe so. But the row two four was the two. It wasn't like there was another row two four that could have happened out there. I mean, it was Pascal and Nalia. Yeah. And Kathy. Oh, you know what?
[00:38:31] I was thinking of the I two four. Yeah. That was only four. That was only four. But in this group, you know, and we're never going to see how it goes because we're going to end up having the tribe swap. This is again, one of you, one of these questions in like a post-season interview where like, all right, Kyle, but what, how were you really going to vote? You went to tribal council. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to. I'm curious. Okay.
[00:38:55] Out of these people from the Siva tribe, who do you think is in danger if in a tribe swap? Do you think any of them are in particular trouble? No. I mean, honestly, they all seem to be like, you know, they all seem like nice people. I mean, we haven't like seen, you know, the other than like some like initial kind of putting stuff on charity. Nobody's really seemed like an outcast. There hasn't been a lot of drama with this group.
[00:39:21] I feel like they're going to be what was the green tribe in in Survivor 46? The Charlie Charlie Charlie tribe. Yeah. Like they're that that they kind of had that vibe for me. Yeah. So we'll see ultimately how they end up coming together. Like so much of it is going to depend on what the tribe makeup is of these swap tribes. Yeah, exactly. But we've seen like more drama from the other tribes than this. This is like this is very much like a love tribe. It seems so far. It seems like a love tribe.
[00:39:51] It seems like that they were kind of down on charity, but charity seems lovely. And she seems and she's back. You know, nobody, nobody. You know what? Kyle didn't say, oh, I don't want to align with charity. She's on the bottom. B.S. Speaking of on the bottom, how was that scene where you had star? Thomas and Bianca talking. And they said, those three are on the top, but we three are on the bottom. I don't understand that that that mathematical breakdown. If you have two groups of three, I've got the strange finger here. Two groups of three.
[00:40:20] I'm going to have to do like a club. Two groups of three. One is not on the top and one is not on the bottom. That's not how numerical parity works. Wait, these group with star and Thomas and Bianca felt like they were on the bottom. Yeah. There was a conversation where star, Thomas and Bianca were talking and they said, we're on the bottom. But those three, Joe, Eva and Cheyenne are on the top. But like, that's not possible. That's two groups of three. Yeah.
[00:40:45] Maybe they feel like that those three are not going to break if they go to rocks and Thomas and Bianca are like, okay, we would definitely break from star if we had to. But nobody like the only two targets are star and Eva. Like each group of three had a target. Like, where does this idea that we're on the bottom? You can't be like, how many people are you going to be in your group? It was like when last season, when you had that alliance of four who were the legend underdogs on like a tribe of seven. Yeah. But maybe that, and who said that was a Thomas or Bianca?
[00:41:16] It was either Thomas. But like Thomas may also know like, Hey, I'm also in this other three, which is actually the top. He's just like creating. I think that he might just be trying to, you know, create a compelling argument. Did you see Thomas's eye after he got hit with the pole from last week? That was wild. Yeah. Kind of a cool look though for survivor. It's almost like that, you know, he's going to have that for the entire game. It's like something iconic. You should get a patch. Yeah. It's kind of a cool, like a, yeah. It's like a battle scar.
[00:41:46] Yeah. I like it. Did you weigh in on how you felt about the game that they played on the journey? Yeah. I said it. I didn't like it. I said, I didn't like that. It was random. I think I said, I like it when there's more, like they have to do some kind of make some kind of choice. I thought it was going to be something where they could like select certain dice, you know, they rolled and then they got to keep one. I mean, I don't know. I mean, that would given that game, that would have been a very stupid choice, but like some kind of choice. Yeah. If there was a little bit of like of a more strategic element to it of like, oh, do I stop here? Do I keep going?
[00:42:16] Yeah. I mean, it was just when it's completely random. It feels sort of like, okay, like, why did I just want you? They could have just, they could have gone in, flipped a coin and then either they lost their board or they didn't. Hey, look, if it works for Mr. Beast, Steven. Yeah. Okay. But for this actual, these three, Camilla ends up coming away with the victory. Bianca ends up losing her vote and Justin loses his vote and the game because of the journey.
[00:42:46] And it was, you know, I really was surprised we did a journey in this second, a second episode in a row. Yeah. I actually didn't mind it. You know, 90 minutes fills the time. There are speed. There they are speeding off into the wild blue yonder. Okay. Steven, let's then talk a little bit about what is coming up with your coveted award. But let me also tell people where we were hanging out tonight. Yeah.
[00:43:16] Chatting away. Chat BCC. We've got- It's a very fun interaction. I really, really like this app. We've got a whole, like, forget a tribe. We've got like a season of Survivor players at this point chatting away during the episode and all week long. You can go ahead and jump in for free chatting along with a ton of your Survivor faves when you go to robinswebsite.com slash VIP chat.
[00:43:42] We try to keep the conversation going every day, have new stuff for people to be weighing in on and talking about. That's a chat. It was very funny in the chat. Brando is very funny. Oh, second Brando mention of the night. Yeah. Yeah. He's a very funny, very funny guy. Yeah. Okay. And yeah, also Drew Basile is there too. Yeah, Drew Basile. We could ask them about what happened when Brando got voted out. Yeah. That's right. We could- Help us break down that tribal council. Yeah. Okay. All right, Steven.
[00:44:11] So tonight, I think you've got a tough decision to make in terms of- Well, I thought I did too. Until going into tribal council, I was really not sure. And I'm going to be honest, and this person is not going to like to- I was thinking I was going to give it to Mitch. Because here's why. Okay. So Mitch, I thought had a very good night. You know, leaving last week, we were- Mitch looked like he was a little bit isolated with charity. This week, we see him making strategic inroads. We see him building out his alliance. You know, that boat trip with Kyle ended up really dramatically changing his position in the tribe.
[00:44:41] And going into that tribal council, I thought, well, nobody really has done anything that strategic. You know, Mary maybe has with her like idol bluff. I thought that was very clever and it worked. And she clearly got into Say's head. But so much of that was going to be dependent on if it actually played out at tribal council. And I really liked the way Mitch played it this week. The other thing that Mitch did was he complained a lot on social media about not having gotten the fishy for last week. And, you know, Say complained after week one. Works every time. Yeah.
[00:45:11] So Say complained week one that we gave it to Eva. And I felt like just keep paying it forward to the person who complains the most the previous week. Give it to them. And Mitch had an amazing episode last week. You know, it wasn't like a strategic episode. But here I felt like he had the strategy that, you know, he didn't have in last week, which was basically an equal trajectory for Say. So I thought this is going to be a Mitch fishy. However, Rob, I have changed my mind.
[00:45:36] I think, you know, it's I think that if somebody didn't even go to tribal council, they better have had the greatest episode ever. And maybe you could argue, OK, Mitch did get a lot done last week.
[00:45:48] But yeah, I think the fishy goes to say this week again, because Say had the biggest impact on who went home out of anybody. Say was going home. Say was done. Cedric voted for her twice. Cedric verbally said, you know, I'm about to send you home.
[00:46:18] And she made such a powerful case. She she used her emotions. She used the logistical mechanical fact that Justin had lied to Cedric. And she put so much pressure on Cedric in that moment that he ended up keeping her. And suddenly there's a tribe swap and Say's position in the game is wide open now. I mean, that was intense, strategic pressure, intense gameplay. And it 100 percent was determined her place in the game.
[00:46:48] She was gone. And now she's there. And I think you've got to award that. Yeah, sometimes the award goes to somebody who did a bunch of stuff and you're awarding it because of just a resume in the episode of things they accomplished. But in the case of Say, that with just one move, she avoids getting voted out and stays in the game and gets a potential rival voted out.
[00:47:13] So I think that that is the right call after Say completely upends the tribal council with, you know, an emotional plea to Cedric. I mean, how often do we see that happen? Emotional and mechanical. Like she had the social reads and she had like the mechanical, you know, the mechanical, you know, details to back it up. And I thought that's what really, I mean, that's what sold it, right? She said he, she figured out, I mean, at that point, Jeff had said, Justin lied to you and I have never lied to you. You know, and how do you go forward with someone who has lied to you?
[00:47:42] And she took this little thing, which, you know, for Justin was purely innocent and turned it into a big deal that kept her in the game. Yeah. So I agree. Say consecutive fishy award winner. Who'd have thought? Well deserved. Yeah. You could really, you could argue she could have had all three. Yeah. But like, I do feel like some of last week was like the pressure of having missed, you know, like the first week. You're letting these survivors have too much effect on you, Steven. No, I like when they're jockeying for it. You know, that makes me feel good. Yeah.
[00:48:11] So I want to encourage that. Okay. So you like the jockeying of that. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, no, please. No, no, no, no. Peer pressure. I did think that, you know, Mitch had some very, Mitch was very funny about it on social media. He was making a lot of jokes about it. I don't know. I mean, it's like a joke that you heard from somebody else. You're like, I'm going to repeat it to you. It's not going to be funny. It wasn't like, you know, it's very contextual. Yeah. Okay.
[00:48:33] Steven, anything else that you caught tonight on this episode, which, you know, was a weird episode in that like we got to tribal council very early with so much fireworks at tribal council. So what did you think of say being annoyed that the guys did not give her the heads up that they were voting? Yeah. I thought that that was an astute read also by her where they're like, hey, say like, just so you know, like, you know, we're all on your side. Like, yeah.
[00:49:00] But like right up until tribal council, were you all going to vote me out? Like that was a good point. I thought a good pickup by her. Were they going to vote her out or were they just keeping on trying to flush her idol? You know, I mean, well, Justin was seemingly was going along for the plan to vote out say until Cedric said, actually, hold on a second. I can't let say go say play your idol tonight. We're all still going to vote for you. And so it's like, but actually, we're not going to do that.
[00:49:29] She was also annoyed that like they all voted for Kevin and didn't give her the heads up so that she didn't have to play her idol. Like, I think she correctly assessed that they flushed her idol. Take that part into account. Yeah. Like if they had just given her the heads up, she would have still had the idol. You know, she wouldn't be like off racing in the woods against Mary, which, you know, was a lot of fun. So maybe they, you know, ultimately they gave her a lot of fun. Yeah. This green tribe was a true disaster.
[00:49:57] Steven, we are have to say goodbye to it this week, but. But no Lulu, right? No Lulu. Still not Lulu. I don't know. How were they? How was Lulu that much better than these, this crew? But nobody quit from this tribe. A quit is worse. Oh yeah. Hmm. Hmm. I kind of feel like, uh, I'm trying to think like, uh, they, they did lose three challenges. Lulu tried.
[00:50:22] And so, yeah, I guess if they had a challenge, Lulu versus, uh, Vula, who would win? Heads up. Oh gosh. Like six on six. Lulu versus Vula. I mean, the thing about Lulu is they had Caleb and that was, you know, there's no Caleb on Vula. Yeah. But Kevin, you know, Kevin, I mean, you know. Here, I'll text Brandon. Also, they had Brandon.
[00:50:50] So that kind of like balances the Caleb. Um, no offense, Brandon. I love you. And look, I'm, I'm texting him. I'm asking him who would win a challenge. Lulu or Vula? Wow. I kind of think Vula. Hmm. I don't know. But Caleb, I mean, I mean, they also had Sabaya. Lulu also had Sabaya. Yeah. I think that Lulu ultimately is more top heavy that you have Sabaya, you have Caleb.
[00:51:18] Um, Emily, I think is no slouch in the challenges. And then you have on, on this tribe. I mean, uh, like who's your real standouts in the challenges, but they had a lot of, you know, Kevin did well. Kevin got injured also on day one. He might've done well. I don't know. Yep. Stephanie, uh, might've been okay in the challenges, but I think that the top of the tribe is probably stronger on Lulu. And you want an unbalanced tribe, like for a lot of survivor challenges.
[00:51:47] You want like someone strong and fast and you want someone who's really good at puzzles. And that's sort of where Loggi is so good. You've got, I mean, Loggi is like a brokenly strong tribe, but you've got like super strong people with Joe and Eva. And then you have these like puzzle masters with Thomas and Bianca. I mean, and Shaheen is like your, you know, and star are these like all around players as well. So, I mean, yeah. Yeah. I don't even know who our puzzle people are on Vula. I don't know if they ever even got to the puzzle on some of these challenges. Exactly. So, okay. Um, all right.
[00:52:17] Steven, anything else on your mind? I never do this, but I want to give a shout out to this woman, Kathleen Holland, who is a big part of my daughter's school community. Um, I know she's really special to a lot of people there and she's also a huge R-Hap fan and a big listener of all your podcasts. And, you know, um, so I just want, I, I, I think, I think she's probably still listening right now. So I wanted to mention her. Um, and, and also something else on my, I've been directing people to my website to sign up for my newsletter.
[00:52:46] I was informed that there's like a problem with the signup form. So please don't sign up for my newsletter quite yet. Not yet. Hold that thought. I'm going to fix this. I will fix this problem as soon as I have time. Okay. All right. Let me tell you about, uh, what else is coming up? Uh, shout out Kathleen. Okay. All right. We've got over on Patreon. Come on over. Survivor is better when you have a tribe and we never do a tribe swap over on Patreon. So head on over. I'll be doing the Survivor Q and A with the patrons.
[00:53:15] Shout out to Owen Knight who filled in for me last week on the Patreon. He did great. I will be back on Friday afternoon at 3 PM Eastern to take all of your questions about episode three of Survivor. Survivor. Then also on the Patreon feed, uh, Josh Wigler and I are still talking about heroes versus villains 15 years later this week.
[00:53:39] We talked about when JT and the heroes decided let's keep James over Tom Westman. That was a crazy choice. Bold choice. The running competition is one of like the great, like my great, the great moments in Survivor. Yeah. Where like, no, that didn't have, that's the next episode. That's the next episode. But, uh, Jeff claimed his niece could be James in a race and James said, uh, no, she can't. She cannot. All right. Check that out over on Patreon. Also deal or no deal Island.
[00:54:08] I got the chance to talk about episode 10 as, uh, we got down to just four people left on Dondi, Steven. Do you think, what, how, how, what position did Boston Rob go out on his season of Dondi? He came in fourth. Wow. So you think there's like some competition between him and Parvati? Like there has to be a little bit of competition. I'm not sure. I don't know how they competitive they are, uh, with it, but find out. These guys like, these like, these like long time, all they are is competitions. Are you kidding? They're competitive. Yeah. I don't have to read on. I'm sure they're supportive too.
[00:54:37] It's like, it's like, you know, you want, you want your friends to do well, but not as well. Not as well as you. Let's like you with people from Yale. Well, mission accomplished. Okay. Check it out over on, we know Dondi.com. Of course, the white Lotus is something that we're covering over on. We know scripted TV where you can see the white Lotus severance recaps and so much more. Or on our scripted TV. You guys have scripted TV podcasts? Yes. We know scripted tv.com. All right.
[00:55:04] Um, and we've got a new episode of clock tower, hopefully debuting next week of survivors play blood on the clock tower. It is an extremely fun episode. So I hope, uh, every, you know, I don't know exactly when it'll drop, but probably sometime in the next week or so. So start to anticipate that. Okay. Be on the lookout for that. We'll let you know, uh, when it's coming. And then I have an answer from Brandon Donlan on the Lulu versus Vula matchup. He says, I think it's close.
[00:55:30] They have more height and also more will to win, but he adds, I can take Cedric. Okay. And he says, if this is being read out loud on the pod, Cedric, I would like to challenge you in the next celebrity net fights boxing match. Wow. Okay. Wow. That's something to see. Okay. So Donlan versus Cedric celebrity net fights. Okay. Make it happen. BB can alumni.
[00:55:59] All right, Steven. Great job on, uh, just a frenetic night of survivor. Truly. I, I, it was a good episode. I thought, Hey, this is a really good episode, but I'm curious. I don't know what's going to happen. And then I, I mean, I could never have predicted that. Yeah. All right. So looking forward to reading what you all have to say in the comments. Thank you so much for watching. And of course, busy Thursday coming up on RHAP. Take care of everybody. Have a good one. Bye.