Today, Rob and special guest, Omar Zaheer discuss Survivor 48 episode 5.[00:00:00] Hey, Rob Cesternino here, and in addition to tracking everything that's going on on these reality TV shows, I love tracking things about my personal fitness. That's why I love the newest smartwatch from Amazfit. It's got all the features I need to keep my day on track, but without the sky-high price tag you usually see with other smartwatches. Let me tell you about the Amazfit Active 2 smartwatch. The display is gorgeous. It's a 1.32-inch ammo LED, and I don't really know what it's going to be.
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[00:01:39] Homer. Homer. Homer. Yeah, we know it all. That's right. Rob Sestrino back here with a scab know-it-all. We're so happy to have here with us our great friend, Homer Zahir. Homer, how are you?
[00:02:03] I am doing fantastic. Thank you for having me here and thank you for replacing Stephen Fishback with me. Yes, okay. Well, look, Stephen is vacationing with the Glitterati this week on spring break while the rest of us are just schlepping away, doing the podcast, working our tails off to talk about a very interesting night of Survivor.
[00:02:29] Do we conclude the pre-merge tonight or is Mergatory the end of the pre-merge? Well, firstly, Stephen's not coming back from a ski trip, by the way. Yeah, okay. All right. It's just me. But you, I think this is the end of the pre-merge. This is this bullshit of Mergatory. It's a merge. Yeah, yeah. It's like, this is the end of the pre-merge and then we have one week that's like nothing. They have no buffs. There's no word for it. It's just Mergatory. And then we have the post-merge coming up after that.
[00:02:55] Who invented Mergatory again? Was that Xander? I recall. I've heard it both ways. Anyway, so yeah, interesting night. And I was prepared for just but a couple of minutes ago. I'm like, okay, well, I got to give out the fishy here. Stephen's not here, but this is an easy one. Fishy for Bianca. She played this beautifully. Well done, Bianca. Ready to go. And then I was as surprised as she was when she got voted out.
[00:03:24] Firstly, you have the audacity to tell me that you were going to give out the fishy. This is my week. Oh, you get to give out the fishy? You never give it out. I'm giving it out. It's the Zahiro. Okay. Or Zahiro. Either or. Don't give it out yet. Don't give it out yet. I'm not giving it out, but I have a lot to say about the fishy and how it's throughout the last few years.
[00:03:43] So wait for later on. Okay. So stay tuned for who Omer is going to get. As an animal doctor, I think that you are qualified to give out a fishy. Yeah. And honestly, this was one of the, as a veterinarian as well, this was like one of the most brutal euthanasias I have ever seen for Bianca. This was tough. This was like a vicious blindside. And it was a true blindside for the audience as well. They didn't show us the conversation. No.
[00:04:13] And I thought they were going to do the flashback. I thought maybe we start the episode with the flashback, but you and I will piece it together in just a moment. Let me tell you about what else is coming up here on a very busy week. Once again, here on RHAP, because I've got coming up on the podcast. In addition to a conversation with Bianca tomorrow, I will be having a recap with two people from Survivor 47. We're going to have Caroline Vidmar and Gabe Ortiz joining me.
[00:04:41] We did this last season with Tiffany and Hunter, and it was very fun. So we get two people from the same tribe who can tell us a whole bunch of stories of what was going on over at Tuku. And we'll talk about all this with Caroline and Gabe. And then on our old school interview, Ron Clark, who, okay, maybe not that old school, but it's going to be a great interview with Ron Clark. Always. Check that out. I always want to know what Ron Clark has to say. Yeah. He's so interesting to talk to. Really looking forward to that.
[00:05:10] I've had so much fun doing the old school interviews this season. And so that's going to be on Tuesday. And then, of course, Club Condo in between of all that, plus everything else in our We Know Survivor podcast feed. And then on Friday, I will be once again taking questions from the patrons of RHAP. Survivor is better when you have a tribe.
[00:05:31] So join us on Fridays for our patron Q&A when I will be taking questions live 3 p.m. Eastern about this week's episode of Survivor. You can see that and more at robiswebsite.com slash patron. All right. Omer, this was a really big blindside for me because Bianca had this seemingly really interesting setup where it seemed like that she had it all figured out.
[00:06:00] Where, okay, two-two tie. If it's two votes on one side, two votes on the other side, that then they have a re-vote. They can't vote for Bianca on the re-vote. This is perfect. And then it seems like, wait, hold on. Is Cedric actually going to go with Mitch and Chrissy to vote out Say? Sounds good, too. Either one was all good for Bianca. It seemed like that she had two great scenarios.
[00:06:30] Yet, she decided to bring in Cedric. Now, at first, I'm like, oh, this is actually great for Bianca because that, if anything, that Cedric understands. Yes. He puts a lot of importance on when somebody loses your vote, you got to tell Cedric. You got to. Apparently not, Cedric. You know what? Give the fishy to Justin tonight. Yes.
[00:06:56] Because Justin, for two weeks, they were like, hey, Justin, you idiot. Why don't you tell Cedric that you lost your vote, moron? Stupid idiot. And Justin is like, probably, he's throwing all the dough up in the air at Luigi's tonight. Yeah. Cedric better not show up at Luigi's tonight. He's throwing the mozzarella like confetti. Yeah. And isn't Cedric, oh, no, he's a vegan. How do you like me now? Yeah.
[00:07:25] I think this was crazy. And we need to break this down from Bianca's perspective, Cedric's perspective, the rest of the tribe, and then also the edit. Because I want to start with that. Mama, look at me now, Justin said. POP. Yeah. I think that the edit is kind of crazy because I think this is actually an inflection point in survivor editing and actually a defining moment. And how can you define a moment in the moment? Some moments, they take years to build up to be very memorable.
[00:07:55] Others, you know it as soon as they happen. Yes. This is iconic. Iconic. Because we have always followed a pathway of editing where we knew something about what was going on. If the suspense was there, it was like A or B. Here we were led to believe either Cedric is going to go along with the plan to vote out say, or he's going to blow it up at tribal. And they inserted shots of Cedric and tribal council time after time where you think he's about to be like, by the way, everybody. And it never came. So then you assume he's going with the original plan.
[00:08:24] And it's a blindside, complete blindside to the audience in a way that was not telegraphed. I think that this is important for the future of the show because there is some inbuilt suspense now of like, is there something that we missed? And but they can't do this too many times because otherwise the storyline is too messed up. And they tried it kind of in 45 when they did the flash forward. But then when they did the flash forward with Jake and Keturah, you knew they were probably not going to flip because we saw votes for Julie.
[00:08:53] But I like this a lot better. OK. Yeah, I don't know if it's necessarily a big inflection. I didn't react to it the same way that I think that there is a piece of crucial missing information. But I'm sure that as a player, there must have been times when you have a conversation with people where maybe we don't see every single conversation. Certainly we don't. But maybe there's a conversation that you have that you feel like really ices it.
[00:09:22] There must have been times when you talk to somebody and you had a final conversation of like, OK, this is what we're doing tonight. It's golden. We're good. And maybe that conversation doesn't always make it to the episode because then the suspense would be gone for the viewer. And maybe it's like that the suspense is, is this person lying to me? But there must have been times when you had like a final conversation with people that sort of iced what the vote was going to be that didn't ultimately make the final edit. Right. Yeah.
[00:09:52] Yeah. I mean, for sure. Like if you look at, you know, the thing that jumps out in my mind was when High voted out Lydia, like they did not show High being like, I'm really going to consider this option. But he knew that was on the table. You know what they presented on the show? Like what actually happened was like it was very locked in and it was going to happen. There was no suspense. He didn't try to save her. It wasn't like a thing. But in what they presented on the show was High has a choice between going with the plan to vote out Lydia or voting out Jonathan or Marianne. And that was the binary choice.
[00:10:20] Here, we were not presented with Chrissy's binary choice. We did not know that in her mind she was considering Bianca. Yeah. And so I think that that leaving out that step is something new for the show. Right. So do you think, because this is what I'm left with, that did Cedric sometime before tribal council have the conversation with Chrissy and or Mitch to say, hey, guess what? Bianca has no vote tonight. Yeah, I really think so.
[00:10:46] Because Chrissy knew exactly what she was doing, what she was saying, and then was very clear afterwards, like she didn't have a vote. And if you had just learned that in passing from whispers behind the scenes, I don't think you would have enough confidence to know exactly what was going on. What I think probably happened is, and I obviously don't know, but I think that Bianca had that conversation with Cedric. She said, if you go to say, I will know something is up and I will not trust you.
[00:11:13] So he probably said, okay, let's vote out, you know, say I need to confirm that with Chrissy or whatever. And then that's probably, in my opinion, when it happened, because he gave her enough information for her to feel solid about switching her vote. The interesting thing is now Chrissy is in a situation where she knows that say is not in on the plan. She knows say is probably going to vote for her. Mitch is still voting for say. Yeah. Cedric is voting for Bianca.
[00:11:41] Chrissy now actually has the power to vote for any of them. Like if she wants to vote out say, she can still do that. So I guess the question is, did Chrissy make the right move? Yeah. Super interesting. And it's also, let's talk that through. It's also a 2-1-1 vote where I'm, at first I'm saying, hold on, did Mitch get left out of the vote? Did he, did Cedric maybe just tell Chrissy? But I wonder if that the thinking was, hey, what if Bianca plays an idol at this tribal council?
[00:12:10] Or if Safe plays an idol at this tribal council? If Bianca played the idol and we put two votes on her, then we need to put one vote on say to force a 1-1 between say and Chrissy also. So I think that Mitch knew about what was going on. And I think this was some kind of protection of just in case Bianca plays an idol. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. To me, he seemed, it would be interesting to find that out. He seemed a little bit surprised to me.
[00:12:36] And also, again, if it was so last minute, I wonder if there was like the inability to know what was going on. And I think if in their position, I don't think they had any reason to believe that even if Bianca had an idol, that she would play it in that moment. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know. But I think it would be interesting either way. All right. Chrissy could do whatever she wanted. Let's talk through all of these different folks. And let's start with Chrissy that you brought up. Okay. Did Chrissy make the right decision here? I know Chrissy really wanted to keep Bianca. Yeah. We love Chrissy. We love a good mother.
[00:13:06] And Say is voting for Chrissy. And Say didn't really, she didn't love, Say didn't love Chrissy and Chrissy didn't love Say. I really thought Say was going home in this episode. There was a lot of people talking poorly about Say in this episode. She's got nine lives. But I think for Chrissy, we love a good mommy. She's Sandy K. Burgeon coded, except a little bit less crazy. She is our Hagris of the season. That's a term of endearment.
[00:13:34] She, I think, made the wrong. Well, actually, it depends. Because I think what she probably prioritized was Cedric. Oh, like her trust with Cedric, perhaps. And then because if she's prioritizing that relationship and making sure it carries through and probably knows Mitch will understand, then she made the decision that she made to kind of go with this plan. And even though she's keeping someone like Say in the game who is more adversarial towards her.
[00:13:55] I thought maybe she should just use this information to vote out Say if Cedric's putting his vote on Bianca because that gives her the opportunity to remove somebody that's very adversarial towards her. But then that does burn trust with Cedric. But then she could go back to Bianca and say, look, I saved you. But I think Bianca lying to her but revealing the information to Cedric is probably what allowed Chrissy to feel okay letting her go. How much do you think that this was that Bianca is part of old Loggie?
[00:14:21] Yes, they lost Thomas, but they still have like a pretty formidable group of numbers. Siva has a fully comprised six people, but maybe they're going to think about maybe throwing away charity. So is it better to get another number out from Loggie? I don't think so. I think they were pretty transparent in their thought of we need to vote out Bianca because it's Loggie strong. But once Thomas went, I really think that they just wanted to vote how they wanted to vote. I think it really came down to her.
[00:14:51] They were in a deadlock and it didn't benefit anybody. It's the classic Robert Sesternino vote out Chrissy Smith. To avoid the tie? Yeah, to avoid the tie because Chrissy is in the middle and she's not making a decision. Here you have Bianca in the middle without a vote, so she can't give either one of the days. And Chrissy was Mitch's hero. Yes. It's all been a conspiracy this whole time. I'm going to do better than Chrissy. Well, Mitch is looking more like Butch right now.
[00:15:21] All right. Let's go back to Cedric because I really want to know if Cedric made the right decision. Because Cedric really has all the power once again. And it's always Cedric in the middle deciding how everything's going to go. And Bianca comes to him and says, hey, Cedric, I don't have a vote. Save me. Save me, Cedric. Okay. And I did not think he was going to turn around on Bianca. I really didn't.
[00:15:51] And here is Cedric who now saves Cedric again. And Cedric does not have love for Cedric. You know who else probably doesn't have love for Cedric? Bianca? Because of the whole loser lodge. Those people have been fucked by Cedric. Persona non grata at Ponderosa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that in general.
[00:16:19] In fairness, Thomas probably has like no ill will towards Cedric. Until he watches this episode. He's like, hey, that's my friend, Cedric. Yeah, exactly. And Thomas is a ride or die, as we know. So he's probably pissed anyways. But I think Cedric made the right decision in some ways. But I wonder if the thing is, say clearly still doesn't trust Cedric. But with this action of him going out of his way to save her, does that pull her back onto his side? A, because he didn't have to do that.
[00:16:49] B, she's a lightning rod of attention. No. She's still going to be mad. He didn't tell her. He told Mitch and Chrissy. She just said, wait a second. Cedric, you found out. I had to. Bianca had no vote. And you didn't tell me? You told them? Yeah, but she had to. You could just say, I learned it last. I think Cedric's going to be thankful for that. But what I wonder is if Bianca should have told, and maybe she did, but she should have told Cedric,
[00:17:18] hey, I think the way that Bianca gets out of this, which is tied into Cedric's decision, is Bianca had it exactly right. If they tie up, she's good. And then if they find out she has no vote, she's bad. The best case scenario, which is the least flashy, is actually that Cedric just decides to vote for Say. So the way that she could have, I feel like, done that was go to him and be like, hey, just so you know, when we first got to this beach, I went to Say and said, I want to work with you and Cedric. And Say is the one that told me not to work with you.
[00:17:46] She's still mad about what happened. She doesn't trust you. So what should we do? And then he would come to his own conclusion about voting her out. Yeah, I think that, and I want to have just, you know, some grace for Bianca, who is at a tough spot. And I think she really believed in Cedric, but I think she told the wrong person about this, that I think that she was really scrambling in a tight spot.
[00:18:12] And so I do want to just like, I have so much empathy for Bianca because she was so gutted when she got voted out. But to go to Cedric with this, I think that that was the wrong person to go to. Now, I think she probably should have said nothing to anybody. I think that that was ultimately the right spot to go to and that to, you know, have it end up being a tie.
[00:18:41] Now, maybe, you know, could she have gone to Say and told, I feel like Say is going to be, she's such a scrappy player that she's going to do everything that she can to survive. I just think that Bianca, she had the plan. Yeah, she had the plan. She had it. And I get where she's probably coming from as tribal approaches. She's going to deal with the aftermath of everybody coming back to be like, you lied to us. So I can see her trying to maybe make one friend.
[00:19:07] And Cedric comes across as a very, people are trusting Cedric with their colons. So you would think that he can trust him with everything. The colon is the gateway of the body. So, I mean, the exit, whatever. But it is something very important. So maybe she trusted in the wrong person. You know, she ended up inadvertently, and she couldn't have known this, but she ended up giving Cedric an off-ramp where Cedric is like, oh, do I have to either vote out Say tonight?
[00:19:35] Or that's not going to be good. And then he's like, oh, wait, I don't have to. If I do this, I don't have to vote out Say tonight. Yeah, and he seemed like he had a good relationship with Chrissy. So this really is the best of every world. And so for Cedric, it ends up being an easier vote for him to blindside Bianca. But I do think it was the wrong decision for Cedric. For Cedric, okay.
[00:19:59] I think it's the wrong decision for Cedric because as I'm saying, I think that Say is going to, and listen, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong about this. And I'll own it, and Say can drag me to hell, but I'm pretty sure that if we get any fallout from this, that Say looked very confused. I'm like, oh, is Say acting at this tribal council? Because, you know, it was unclear the 2-1-1 who voted for whom, and Say got left out of this vote. They didn't vote out Say, but they didn't loop her in.
[00:20:29] And once again, Cedric has not given her all of the complete information. We saw with the Justin tribal council that, yes, Cedric saved her, but then she was still a little miffed about the fact that the guys were going to vote her out, and then they changed her mind. You have to tell Say everything if you're her ally, and she doesn't like it if you hold information from her. And that's what Cedric did again.
[00:20:53] And I do feel like that Cedric has an okay shot to be the mergatory boot, ultimately, if nobody's going to really stick their neck out for him. And Say would be happy to write down Cedric's name again. That is fair. I don't think she's done it yet, but she would love to. You know what? Say, from what we've seen, she will drag you to hell, Rob. So, for the record, I think that Say will forgive Cedric.
[00:21:23] So, on Twitter, you know, just remember that. She may drag you to hell if she doesn't. What do you think? I'm a fool, Omer? I'm going to forgive this man? Yeah, I mean, I just think that in Cedric's spot, if you're Say, like, Say is a logical player in many ways. She understands the logic of, you know, when to withhold or when to give information. When to rest.
[00:21:47] For the most part, she did say to Cedric at the Justin Tribal Council that she's given him everything that she has. You don't tell me what's going on? Yeah, so that is an issue. But also with the way Bianca told Cedric, if he went to Say to tell her, it would have blown off the whole plan and she could have gone home from that. So, I think if he can explain it that way. Yeah, but you don't know that that's the case. That's a little bit of fan fiction on your part that Bianca said, if you talk to Say, I will know that you have betrayed me.
[00:22:17] It was on the show. She said that? She said that. She said, if I see you go back to Say. What leverage does she have? Well, she doesn't have much, but other than blowing up Cedric's spot at Tribal Council. What's she going to blow up? Cedric doesn't have a spot to blow up. It's like, hey, everybody, I told Cedric I had no vote. And I told him if he talks to Say, I was going to tell everybody about this. I guess. But then you could have, I don't know. I can see why he didn't do it. And I think that she probably would.
[00:22:45] But here's why I think that for Cedric, I think making a clean break from Say would have been the better move. Because he has some really solid allies in Mitch and Chrissy who seemingly want to work with him. Plus, he would have an ally in Bianca who wants to work with him. That Cedric does not have great numbers coming from Vula in Say and Mary. Cedric needs to find a new home in the post-merge game. And so he has options there.
[00:23:15] He could end up going with Siva. That there could be a bridge to what Bianca is doing if she ends up going back to her tribe in the post-merge game. But there's just, I don't think that the Vula three are going to be a force here at the merge. And Cedric really needs to pick a side. And I think that having, being attached to Say, who is ruffling feathers that we saw not only in her own tribe,
[00:23:39] but also that we saw that, I forget which new tribe it is of new Loggi winning reward. They were also talking about how Say rubbed them the wrong way also. So I think that Say also is a person who could be the mergatory boot. And now Cedric has, you know, further attached himself to what could be a sinking ship. But do you think that he, I actually, I think I do agree with you.
[00:24:07] My only counterpoint is, is Say not the big lightning rod that will take attention away from him. That's his shield that he's, I mean, sure. Like maybe like that's what Genevieve was thinking initially with Rome. But, you know, it's like, okay, then when Rome goes home at mergatory, like, okay, where's the shield now? Yeah, but it was also an easy consensus vote to survive. Whereas Bianca, I feel like if, if he didn't fully trust Bianca,
[00:24:34] which I think he probably could have given the fact that she gave him everything, but if he didn't feel it, like maybe that's the first time they had a really in-depth conversation, then he, then she has a lot more room to just integrate back in with her old people. Yeah. I just thought after everything with Justin, that the, that when Bianca reveals to him the thing about, hey, Cedric, I, I know how, I know how important this is to you. Or she didn't even know that, uh, that, but do you know, sometimes like I've heard that,
[00:25:02] like you reveal that you don't have a vote to somebody and it makes them really, that's, that's the most trust that you could have with a person. And Cedric is like, okay, look, I got to stick my neck out for her. Yeah. I mean, I, I agree. But I, and I'll say now also kudos to Say who has done a good enough job that telling us in confessional, I'm stuck with Cedric telling Bianca, Hey, you go talk to Cedric, see for yourself.
[00:25:28] She has done a good enough job in the social game with making Cedric feel like, okay, Say is still my person. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think Say is, is, I really think that the player most similar, not exactly in some ways, but like is somebody like Russell, you know, somebody who's going to bulldoze their way through the game and you either, you really have to work with them or against them. And there's no, and if they're pushing so hard, then loyal to my people.
[00:25:57] Sometimes people just get pushed to the wayside if they're not ready for the Mack truck, you know, and, and she seems to have survived, caught some lucky breaks, but also has done a lot on her own to like really push that through. But I just don't know how sustainable it's going to be. Omer, I'd love to shift to this huge moment that got talked about and promoted all week long. Was there anything else about this tribal council that you want to highlight in terms of what's
[00:26:23] going on here on the new, which tribe is this new Siva? New Siva. Yeah. I just don't know if I think the big questions for everybody in general is, so you think that Cedric made the wrong decision. What do you think about the decision Chrissy made right or wrong? Cause she could have done either one. Yeah. Uh, I think that Chrissy and, and Mitch, I think that they should have done a one, two on,
[00:26:50] and like, I think for Chrissy and Mitch, this is really what I think they should have betrayed Cedric and they, they should have been Cedric is like, Hey, Hey, everybody, Bianca doesn't have a vote. Okay. Uh, 9-1-1, Bianca doesn't have a vote. Okay. Uh, and they should have said, okay, Cedric, great. Hey Mitch, you, you and me, we vote for say tonight and we take out say, save Bianca. Where's Cedric going? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:18] Who's Cedric going? Like, Hey Cedric, sorry, sorry. Say, uh, you know, it was, she wrote my name down. What am I going to do? She was coming for me. And I think that for Mitch and Chrissy, I think that they should have still taken out say. I agree. Especially cause say in Chrissy's relationship was so adversarial and it seems like Bianca and Chrissy's relationship was fairly positive other than leaving out the vote that I think that, you know, Chrissy literally could have just put her vote and change it and say, they would have gone home and that would have been great.
[00:27:47] That's why the only thing I could think of is that I think that for Mitch and for Chrissy, I think part of their calculus was that, Hey, we're going to let there be five people from old Loggie get back together. And I think that they were looking at it as that's another number for purple and that at the merge that Siva is going to be targeted. And so let's take out one of their numbers at the same time. Agreed. And do we think this was the best episode of the season?
[00:28:14] I, I think that last week's might have been better. I think it just depends on your mileage on what we're going to talk about next with Joe and Eva. Yes. Yes. Love Joe and Eva. Okay. Do you think this was the best episode of the season? I think this was the best episode of the season. And the reason I feel that way is that I felt it broke formula a bit. Like it wasn't, you know, segment here, immunity challenge here, segment here, tribal council journey thrown in there. You know, it was,
[00:28:41] we saw a reward segment later than we thought it would be. And it had an impactful moment that may shape the rest of the game. We had an emotional moment with Joe and Eva and the whole tribe. And then we saw a shift in a relationship with star and Eva, which I thought was very interesting after the immunity challenge when they're the winning tribe. And then this last second vote on Bianca that we never saw how it came together. I think it made it a very non-formulaic and very surprising episode. And I really enjoyed that because I thought it was a bit refreshing.
[00:29:10] Okay. Well, let's talk about this predicament that Eva finds herself in. And first off, I love when the producers have like a table maze is that everybody has to get one or everybody has to sink a shot because I think you end up with, it always ends up with a great moment where there's one person that just can't end up doing it, even though Eva ultimately does overcome and do it. And, you know, it had been promoted all week long that we were going to have some kind of emotional
[00:29:40] moment. Jeff was going to cry in this episode. And I really had thought that Eva was not going to be able to complete the table maze. Yeah, I, I, I agree. I thought it was like very powerful and I am not like a very emotional person. I don't really cry a lot, but I've cried for the biggest loser once. And also, um, during the wild robot a little bit and this, I actually shed a tear. Wow. I felt
[00:30:10] something and that is powerful because when Adam shared his story too, that was the other time. All right. Talk me through it. You know, what, which part of this specifically was the part that made you emotional? I think it was the more the aftermath. And then with the moment that Joe gets to go over, cause you're so like, is he going to go, is he going to go, is it going to be allowed? And you know, the fact that Jeff broke the wall and allowed it, I thought, Hey, that's an interesting thing. Cause that never happens. And the way that he talked it through and explained it, like, yes,
[00:30:38] I'm kind of breaking the game barrier here. I thought at least it was good that he acknowledged that. But as soon as, cause you're like, before that happened though, you're like, she clearly needs him to be comforted, but he, she's not going to get that. Or like, how can she do it remotely in that way? Yeah. And then when it was kind of allowed to break through and you realize that she would get that relief and that, and then seeing her come down so quickly, I thought that was a very beautiful moment. And, um, and then sharing the story with the whole group and how everybody was very supportive. And like she said, they weren't pitying her. They were appreciating
[00:31:07] her for her differences and also sharing. And I think that that is what we need more of in society today is acceptance of everybody. Yeah. I'm so interested to see what the larger response is to all this. Cause I really feel like that this is going to be a little bit of like a survivor Rorschach test of, I think that there are going to be some people that are going to, you know, talk about this as one of their favorite moments on survivor ever. I think that there are going to be some people that this is super powerful for. And I think that there's probably also going
[00:31:37] to be some maybe fewer, but loud people about this is not survivor. This is not the game. This is not why we're here. Why is, why is this part of this is new era? Woo woo. This is, uh, not the show I grew up on. And I think it's, well, I'm not saying that that's, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm telling you, I believe that this is what the, what the reactions will be. I think it will be a very varied reaction,
[00:32:06] but I think that what survivor is, and especially now that I think that it's really the intersection of those two things of that. There is this game that so many of the purists really have grown up with and think about and really at its core, that's what survivor is. But then you have this emotional layer that's mapped onto that where now, okay. In, in the midst of this game, also there's these human
[00:32:36] connections that are happening. And it really is, I think, uh, interesting to watch everybody navigate that as a parent, you know, I could only imagine what it would be like to see, you know, uh, my children are not beyond having episodes where they really need a lot of attention and you should be comforted in very specific ways. And so, you know, uh, I could only imagine what that's like
[00:33:04] for either Eva's parents watching at home, uh, for Joe watching from the sidelines to be watching her go through this and to be inconsolable. I mean, uh, that was a really emotional moment in the show. Yeah, I totally agree. And I, what I would say to the losers out there who are shitting on the moment is, and saying, this is not the survivor I knew. This is not what was, it was always about. I would
[00:33:31] argue that this is exactly what it's always been about. You know, if you go back to season one, I mean, the thing is right now we have a time where, um, you know, historically, you know, mental health or spectrum disorder, not even disorders, just being on the spectrum or having a difference in ability was not really talked about, you know, in my household, a lot of, um, brown culture households, you know, you don't really talk about your feelings. People hide their mental illness.
[00:33:58] They see it as a bad thing and people weren't comfortable, you know, speaking on it, but people now are more in tune with that and more willing to have those conversations. If you look at 25 years ago, you know, what were they talking about? They weren't talking about that then because that wasn't the cultural movement at the time, but they were talking about how Richard was gay. They were talking about MTV. They were talking about having children out of wedlock. All of these things were things that were, you know, hot button issues or new things in the
[00:34:27] evolution of humanity that were happening at that time that they were talking about then as well. And, you know, Sean and the Sepia's moment in season four where they're talking about representation, like that is something that has always been on the show and it's always affected how people interact with one another. It's just that maybe people, you know, people at that time as well, people were, many people were not ready to hear Sean and the Sepia's conversation. Many people were not there to hear Richard's story. Many people were not there to root on our
[00:34:54] Hagris Sue, but now people are like, that's the survivor we knew and loved, but people didn't feel that way at the time either. Yeah. So I am wondering, and this is the survivor know-it-alls, how is, does this affect the game? Okay. We, we watched the humanity of it and I don't think that there was anything strategic about what was happening. I think it was everybody's just
[00:35:19] reacting in the moment, but the players, you know, this are extremely smart and everything that happens, everybody is so meta. So thinking about all the different levels of different things. How does, if, if you are one of the other players in the game, how is this changing how you're looking at this duo? Well, I think it is a very good question and it's very hard because you, on one hand, it's a very beautiful moment. On the other hand, this is an incredibly threatening relationship
[00:35:48] in the game for a million dollars, but you also may not want to be the one that's like, we have to split up Joe and Eva. Like that's, you know, we saw Thomas and Bianca like share a moment about this when, well, before this moment, yeah, before, yeah, Eva, well, Eva gave Joe, uh, Joe the necklace and for the bracelet for his daughter in front of everybody. And they were like, really? Like, really? Yeah. Which now they may have more context as to why that occurred. And also now I feel like people will forget about it for a few rounds, but towards the end of the game,
[00:36:18] like people are going to know that if these two are in the game, they're always going to be voting together. Um, who's going to take the shot? I don't know. And how are they going to take the shot? I don't know. It's also interesting because this moment also had further game ramifications in terms of how star and, um, Eva have come together. Yeah. Let's talk about that. Yeah. Yes. So it's, I think that people are going to be looking at Joe and Eva, but any plans, like even the four Vula people that are now creating an alliance of four, they have to know that Joe has something
[00:36:46] outside of that too. And will that be brought in or will it be something that breaks them apart? Could this moment be something that helps both of their games where that I think that if I don't really know Joe and Eva, I haven't spent any time with them. I do think that in the new era, especially, and maybe all throughout survivor history, but especially now everybody is so
[00:37:09] deceptive. Everybody is so, uh, you know, two-faced and is playing so hard that when you, when you see a glimmer of authenticity, and I think this was like Carolyn's superpower where, okay, this is real. This is a real thing that's going on. I know this isn't fake. These two aren't putting it on for the cameras. And in some way, am I less threatened by two people who are stepping
[00:37:37] outside of the game to have an authentic moment in front of everybody where maybe I'm not looking at them as being these Uber calculating people because there are so many of those folks. And I kind of think back to maybe where people were sleeping on Andy last season, when he had that moment where he stepped out of the game and at the first try at the first, um, challenge and people's okay. All right,
[00:38:02] well, maybe I'm not as threatened by this person because of what, you know, I'm seeing this emotional side of him that do you feel like that for Joe and for Eva, could this change the way that people are perceiving them and maybe are not thinking of them as these, uh, super strategic players? Well, I think that definitely it has potential benefits. I think the danger more comes in the fact that they're a pair as opposed to their individual games. I think it can only help
[00:38:29] on an individual level, how people feel about them. And clearly we saw the ramifications of Eva, um, you know, people opened up to her even more and even gave her an immunity idol. But, um, with, with Joe and Eva as a pair, it's obviously threatening, but in some ways, like you said, especially in the new era, there's been a lot of fluid gameplay where, you know, you'll have best friends turning on each other and, you know, anybody could work with anybody at any time. And that means there's so many variables on an exponential level with every
[00:38:57] new relationship you have. So if you can have two people that are a known quantity, they're known to be voting together, they're known to be loyal together, and they, um, have this human moment. I do think that in some ways, at least in the short to medium term, it's beneficial to know where they're at. And so I think that removes a variable for all the players as well. And that does make it less threatening. You were referencing when Jeff said in the edge of extinction about sometimes a
[00:39:23] moment is instantly iconic, but Jeff did say tonight that this is a sign of where survivor is, that things like this happen outside of the game. What did you think about Jedda, uh, Jeff's meta thoughts about, uh, that this type of moment happening on the show? Yeah. I mean, I think that this was much more impactful moment than like the game changers balance beam, but like, um, but I do think that- You know what? In hindsight, I disagree. I, I, that we could, we could, uh,
[00:39:53] bring that back into it. But I, I think that really what I've talked about with that is that I feel like that, that soft launched the new era of like Sari overcoming the balance beam and really was, uh, really changed the way that the show changed, that it was all about people, 18, 20 people all vying to win the prize of a million dollars. And I feel like that, that was the B that was the moment where the show started to shift from, okay, maybe one person is going to win the million dollars, but many other
[00:40:22] people are going to have a victory in a personal journey. And that's really, I think what's something that really shaped the new era. So I do think that as a moment, as a turning point for the show, I do think that Sari walking across the balance beam was a big deal, even though I poo-pooed it at the time. Yeah. You know what? That is a fair point because it is, it's almost like a Pokemon evolution. Like this is probably the Charizard, but you don't get Charizard without Charmander. And that was probably Charizard. So true. So true. Yeah. But I do think that, you know, again,
[00:40:51] I, I do actually think that Survivor has always been about social growth and, um, you know, exploring humanity and different peoples from different walks of life coming together. And that's more amplified now because those are easier conversations to have. It's more amplified now because there's more diversity in casting that didn't exist 25 years ago. But I do think there's always been some of that present throughout the show's history because at the core of this game is a social,
[00:41:15] it's a social game. And the point was to bring people like you and, um, you know, Roger, not the most diverse season, Survivor of the Amazon. Okay. But we'll put a pin in that. We'll talk about that when we talk about what's going on over at the new Vula tribe. But yeah, I did think it was interesting that, uh, that Jeff is almost explaining to here, Hey, here's why I thought it was okay for
[00:41:39] for this moment to happen and for, and for me to invite Joe to go and have a moment with Eva. Yeah. I mean, I agree. I think he read the situation very well. And I think that he did break the, the third wall or fourth wall of the game a little bit, but I thought it was an appropriate thing to do in that moment. I feel like it's also something that, um, you know, Joe could have probably just done on his own as well. However, um, there is as a player, when you're there,
[00:42:06] you don't really know what you can or can't do, especially your first time. So I get why there was that apprehension. So I think that Jeff giving that permission was a very human thing to do and a very appropriate thing to do. And I think that is a reflection of how Jeff has evolved in the last 25 years. Like his intuition and instincts are very, very good. And I think in this moment, that was something very subtle, but it was something important to consider because in the moment of doing that, you are breaking down this general rule where you can't interact with the other tribes.
[00:42:32] You're outing a potential relationship or alliance and showing that you have knowledge of an Eva and Joe relationship beyond what everybody else would just know. So I think it is, um, something that is important that he addressed, but I thought he did it perfectly. Yeah. I wonder how much maybe Joe might have already been shouting to her because I'm not sure necessarily like how much Jeff would even have knowledge of that, you know, the specific relationship that Joe and Eva had. They haven't been to tribal council together. And so I don't know if
[00:43:01] it's come up in any other way, but I think that he must've been probably pretty vocal to her. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And also, I don't know if you caught it, but in the reward, this is very off topic, but in the reward challenge, um, charity was yelling like, yes, Mitch, get it, Mitch. It's like, you're not even, he's not on your team. Yeah. Um, I did, that was just something that I caught and I was like, what is going on? Why aren't people more? Maybe that's why people were sour with her. Yeah. It's like, you know, there's something about it.
[00:43:31] I don't trust her. Okay. All right. So let's go now after the challenge, we got the, you know, discussion about that, which is, as you mentioned, like a break from format. And I thought that we were just following up with Eva after the challenge, but after Eva reveals to everybody, okay, that she has autism. And then we come back and follow her back to the camp. And they're
[00:43:55] says that she's very proud of Eva and that this is going to be a very teachable moment. And then she ends up revealing, Hey, this is, I want to be honest with everybody. I have the beware advantage. Yeah. I mean, I think this was the right move for star, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Cause I don't think that star realized that they all knew already. Um, so in that sense, you know,
[00:44:22] getting it out there in this moment of, you know, the thing is out there, you can have very emotional moments with people that are outside of the game to some extent, but it does bleed into the game a little bit. And then you can bond on things that you wouldn't have otherwise. Yeah. For instance, like our tribe, you know, at one point we were all talking about, you know, the deepest reasons of why we were there. And that really bonded the Taku people together. And we were more loyal to each other than we probably would have been otherwise. And in this situation, um, I think that star sharing game
[00:44:52] information in the context of an emotional moment, especially when people weren't really trusting her was something that could maybe break her in the thing that I'm not sure of though, is if she's aware of her position and if she is not aware of her position, I don't know if she can capitalize on it because the worst thing that could happen. She's just strung along further until she gets voted out by her own. Yeah. Okay. So star says, Hey, I have the cryptics. I'm not sure what they call it. And then
[00:45:20] it really turns out that Eva ends up being the MVP here and she ends up getting it open. Silent is the answer. She opens it and star says, Hey, Eva, you keep the idol. It's a wild choice. What? Wild choice. Okay. But now let's, Hey, let me go galaxy brain here for you. Okay. If I'm star, okay. I'm heading
[00:45:44] into mergatory next week. Potentially I'm at the bottom of my old tribe. Okay. I might be at the bottom of this tribe. Do I want to go into mergatory with a known idol also? Well, I think, I think that again, I don't think she's fully aware of her position. Um, I don't think that she thinks she's at the bottom. Um, in which case a public idol is not that useful anyway. So getting
[00:46:13] rid of it is not that bad of an idea. I don't hate this idea for her because clearly her and Eva have been very adversarial. And this is a moment where she can, you know, star can tell Eva all she wants. I'm so inspired by your story. What you did is so great. And, um, I'm really on your side because of it, but that's just words. And in survivor, you need actions too. So I think that her action of giving the idol over in that moment to somebody that opened it for her is an actionable thing where I
[00:46:40] could look at star and be like, I trust you more. And I think you're more on the level if they had been having feelings of suspicion towards her. So I think that the answer is yes, this was not a bad move for her. Um, but I just wish she knew where she was at in the game. Yeah. I don't think that star is going to be the mergatory boot. I mean, I do think that, you know, knowing that stars on the ropes, sure. Having an idol would be good, but having the known idol is ultimately not that great of a
[00:47:07] position, even if she plays it like at the first vote after the merge and look, she may well be regretting giving it to Eva if that she's in the six people that are vulnerable next week. And then, you know, that could, that could be where, okay, ultimately it just ends up falling on her. Hopefully Eva will play it on her. I'm really in a pickle. Um, please play the other one on me, but ultimately like what you're going to do, like, uh, go on an immunity run from 13.
[00:47:36] So star needs allies more than she needs an idol. Agreed. Agreed. And also this is a big night for star updates on Twitter. Shout out big night, big night. Okay. And so, uh, very, lots of actually bring in star updates on here to give their opinion on was this the right move? Cause I think, yes, you think yes, but I'd like to know what star updates. I thought that's a little bit more of a club condo segment, but I think it's a definitely on the table. All right. Okay.
[00:48:03] You heard it here first. Let's go back to the Vula tribe. Cause this was such an interesting turn of events here because last week we had that really exciting move where Kyle and Camilla got one over on the California girls before we talk about what happened tonight. Do you have any thoughts on what Kyle and Camilla did last week? I thought it was fantastic. I think that they played it exactly the right way and they used the extra vote. And I don't think it was a waste. Like Kyle said,
[00:48:32] because if they had voted for Camilla, they needed that extra vote. And I think that the way they did it was so great to prevent Thomas from playing anything that he had had, um, if he had received something. So I think that their execution of that was perfect. I think that it was weird to me that they were kind of like mad at Kyle. I was like, but you guys all voted for him. Yeah. And he's like, Hey, Oh, I heard you all went through my bag. So I had to play the idol. Um, so Kyle,
[00:48:58] like, Hey, we're still trying to play that Kyle and I are not on the same page. Like what? You can't do that anymore. We all know. Is anybody buying that? Like, I would have liked to hear like, uh, Shaheen and Joe, like confirming that, but you know, Kyle and Camilla are going to keep selling it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that was wild. Yeah. But I think that they're not in a bad position. They're in a position of two, two votes. So go look for the idol if you're worried. And there was a Vula idol that we saw from last week's episode, but it doesn't seem like that
[00:49:28] after last week's vote, I'm like, wow, this is maybe, you know, sort of like the first shot fired between the Siva and Loggi war where, okay, we're going to go into the merge and it's going to be orange versus purple. And who's going to pick up Cedric and Mary and say, let's go. That's going to be the story of the season. But basically we have like this big rift between Kyle and Camilla on one side
[00:49:52] and Joe and Shaheen on the other side. But these rewards do amazing things, Omar. Yeah. A little croissant, you know, a little croissant and these four broke bread and we got to hear all the different stories, like some, uh, uh, four like pretty diverse stories of what each
[00:50:18] person's like loved ones and family members had gone through, which were all harder than survivor and sharing those stories was the setup for like, Hey, like look at us. Well, why not us? What if we do to everybody what Kyle and Camilla did to us last week? We'll pretend like, Oh, we don't get along. Uh, it's, this is not a unit. This is not a group. Yeah. I mean, this is where, again, like there are
[00:50:47] emotional things that can happen that really can tie people together. Like the, you know, Eva's autism experience. And then this is also something that's very powerful and also something, this is, I think more what people are going to be like, this is not our show or whatever they're going to say. But I think that it is a very powerful moment when you have shared stories that have not been shared before. I don't know. Uh, and we'll see what the reaction is to this because I feel like that everybody was
[00:51:12] sharing their own story and every story was, was different. It wasn't necessarily like a, you know, one person's story of now, okay, well, this is like survivor is too woke. This was, I feel like people sharing the, the lived history of different relatives from all different, all different parts of the world of like all of our relatives have been through something. Yeah. I mean, I think that as a person,
[00:51:42] as a Brown person of color, I mean, I do think that a lot of times, you know, Brown people and Black people are put into like a monolith, but there is quite a bit of diversity and experience. And I think it's an experience that is not shared by many other people. Like it's hard for people outside of those, you know, how we are to, to know and understand what those experiences are. And that doesn't mean that, you know, we're better than anybody. Cause obviously there's been some trauma, but it is a
[00:52:08] experience that we should all share together just to understand. And so the fact that they could do that, share their own experiences, which were all very varied, but bond over it and share it on a platform like survivor where people can maybe hopefully empathize and grow from it. I think it's fantastic. And I think that why I think, and again, maybe I might have to eat my words. I think that why people are not going, well, I don't think that there will be a lot of backlash, uh, with this is that I feel like that we got to know all four of these people separately as players in
[00:52:38] the game. And then, then this, this new information came out after where it wasn't like, okay, we first learned, we met these people by learning about their, their struggles, you know, the things that, that, you know, the, the way that they, you know, uh, where they come from, we, we got to meet them first and then we learn this. And I think that that's probably the right way to do it, to tell these types of stories.
[00:53:04] A thousand percent. And I think it's very interesting of like, how will this carry forward? Because, you know, again, it's a situation where they all have something to bond over. They're all on one tribe now, but they also have preexisting relationships, you know, Joe and Eva, um, the Siva people with, um, Mitch and, um, uh, Chrissy. And so like, are they going to, and David, like, are they going to want to go back to those relationships at some point? All of their interests will not align
[00:53:31] together. So it'll be interesting to see how long they stick together towards. I think the most useful thing that could come out of this for them is say, Hey, like be even more radically honest than there being like when you went to Mr. Machete and said, I've been lying to you forever now, but I'm going to tell you the truth now. And you're going to listen to me. But I think for these four, they can say, look, we may not have interests that all align, but as long as we protect each other, that should be our priority. Like if we have other alliances, like they will not come for you.
[00:53:58] And if you have other alliances, don't let them come for us and we'll protect each other, even if we can't always vote together. And I think that this type of, you know, conversation has been around in survivor for a very long time. You know, you mentioned Sean and V earlier, but Sean and John Carroll had conversations where they connected over Sean being black and John being gay. And that was like a really, it didn't, it wasn't a game relationship, but it was a personal relationship
[00:54:26] that was very strong. Yep, exactly. And so, you know, people are always going to be, you know, either happy or sad to see things in it or like upset to see things in the moment. But, you know, over time, this is a moment that in 20 years, people will look at and say, that was really great. And I hope that people recognize that now, much like the edge of extinction, you know, right. What an iconic moment, but to me, this is the power for in the game right now. Yeah. But do you think that there's
[00:54:53] still enough trust? Cause like if they, I mean, I guess they're merging now, but they, the last time they all went to tribal council together, they all lied to each other. They all lied to each other, but I kind of feel like, okay, well now the power for is here. Okay. Eva is going to come back in. Hey, great. Eva's friends with David. Great. He's in. So, so now we have a six. Who else is joining them? Chrissy? Chrissy. Chrissy. I think we'll join them. Chrissy joins them in seven. Is
[00:55:19] Mitch come along? Well, maybe not Mitch because of charity. I feel like that charity is a very likely person to get the mergatory. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. And I think that even if it also really depends on how they do it, right? Because if they do it like they did before 47, where half the group is immune, if charity becomes immune, you could have somebody that's sacrificed like Mary or star
[00:55:43] that maybe wouldn't have gone otherwise. So I think star is also another person who potentially gets thrown overboard is not part of that power core in the middle. I think say is in trouble or, and I guess, I think Cedric is going to be saved by his relationship with Chrissy and Mitch at this point. Yeah. Uh, Mary, you think Mary is, uh, I think Mary is in trouble. I do think that she, I don't think so because what's her connection into that group. I don't think there is one.
[00:56:13] And say, I feel like that there's nobody that's really in that power core that's really going to bat for say. So I think that she's another person. It was kind of, I feel like that maybe, is this a little bit like heading into the merge in your season where we kind of have like all of the power players together in the, in the middle. And then we're picking on the Romeos and the Tories and, uh, the people, the Lydia's people that are on the bottom. Yeah. I really do think that that's
[00:56:37] how the power, cause the thing is if everybody in this group, that's a power player, quote unquote, feels like they have the upper hand within that group, which they all probably do. Cause Joe's like, I got my side thing with Eva and, um, I guess Bianca's gone now. So that's not really a thing, but, um, and then if the Siva people feel like, Oh, we have six people, you know, maybe we'll be fine. Then I think that, um, they all will be incentivized to stick together through a couple
[00:57:02] of votes, which will put people on the outs like star, like Mary, um, that people that don't have a home, like charity, they're going to be on the outs. However, the people that make it out of that situation will be set up very well for the longterm. Um, like, like Romeo and Marianne ended up being fine because then they all turned on each other. I think the, the, the other thing that's missing here though, is that Siva still has six people. So if the core of Siva, the four that wanted to
[00:57:29] work together were smart, I feel like this is the time much like when Reba threw J Maya and, um, Sifu under the bus, they should ax charity as a sacrifice so that people aren't threatened by the six. Yeah, I think so. I think that Mitch could be one of these people who, if he's able to survive this sort of like early culling of the people that are at the bottom, I think that he's somebody who could sneak into when the, when the core in the middle is going to snap in half, that maybe he could be somebody who, uh, the people back on old Siva could pick up.
[00:57:58] And so I feel like that one of the Vula people, like what one of like Cedric or Mary, or even say who ends up surviving that, I think that they end up, I think it's most likely Mary who ends up being the person. Pray for Mary. Pray for Mary. And I think that, you know, uh, she's, you know, fostered some good relationships on her tribe. And we love a good, uh, May and, um, May, May is their, their couple's name. Yeah. Yeah. May is just still delivering. They're not
[00:58:25] even on the same tribe. Yeah. You know, like that's, that's what an iconic do. I can't wait for their reunion. Omer, let's talk a little bit about who should get the coveted fishy award. Uh, but first let me just shout out over on the patron feed 15 years ago, Josh Wigler and I talked about yesterday. This actually happened. Uh, but we talked about 15 years ago, banana etiquette,
[00:58:54] a double boot episode we talked about, and, uh, we really broke the format. We had a very deep conversation. I thought about survivor and so much more, uh, against the backdrop of Tyson getting voted out, James getting voted out, spoiler alert, and a really fun podcast, having a great time going back and revisiting the season that launched Rob as a podcast from 15 years ago on the patron feed,
[00:59:21] robiswebsite.com slash patron. This one was so good. I'm going to make this free for every, if you could go watch it for free at robiswebsite.com slash patron, just to get a little flavor of what we've got going on. And the best episodes aren't even yet to come. Um, the best episodes of that season are episode eight. Yes. And the one where Amanda goes. Okay. Yeah. The double, uh, that's the one after that's the one after with each treasure Island.
[00:59:46] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Treasure Island. So funny. Can, can I just say the one thing about treasure Island? I thought it was insane. You know, Danielle DiLorenzo is one of the most unintentionally funny people that's ever been on the show. She comes back from treasure Island being like, I wrestled Amanda to the ground and ripped the clue right out of her hand. I'm such a bad ass. And then it was her handing it over. So funny. So funny. Okay. All right. We'll check
[01:00:15] that out in a couple of weeks over on Patreon. All right. So Omer, you know, I don't necessarily relish the position you're in of having to give out a fishy tonight because it's a night where you could go in a lot of different directions. I would like to say about the fishy that Stephen
[01:00:37] fishback, you have been giving it out to multiple people in the same week and it's disrespectful. It's disrespectful to the award that is yours. He's been giving out last week. He gave a fishy to Kyle and Camilla. You don't like that. I agree. I agree with you completely. You haven't even given one to Mitch. What the fuck is that? You could giving you a two at once. You're giving it to Rome and whomever last time. We don't even remember the other person who got it besides Rome.
[01:01:05] Yeah. Who was it? Was it Genevieve? I'm trying to think. So he liked the way that Rome was, was playing his advantages. So I don't remember who got the other fishy. I think it was Genevieve. It was probably the Keyshawn boot, but insane behavior, Stephen fishback and Rob is right. He is the knowing is know it all. And you're on his show. You should listen to him. Even if it's your award, one award per week, unless it's a double tribal council,
[01:01:33] then I accept your offer to give to. Yeah. And the fact that you've been giving it out to like the weather. That's for a minute. Yeah. Yeah. And that's insane as well. And you know what? This season, the weather is not getting the fishy because the weather is riding coattails and going too easy on these people. Where's the rain? That's what I have to say. That's true. Can I bring up something? Okay. So every week we post who received the fishy award and we'd like to tag the player who
[01:01:58] won it. But there has been one player who's been a little vocal about a lack of fishy representation and that's been Mitch. And so here over on Instagram, RHAP grams, uh, we see Mitch posted. I haven't cared about this award all season. It's a broken system rewarding losers for losing. But this week, Stephen fishback actually got it right. Huge joint effort. And my Siva friends
[01:02:25] crushed it. What do you think about the fishy award as being broken and rewarding losers for losing? I'd like to know what Mitch has to say about the chizzies. I'd like to say about that. Well, I mean, is that an interesting point there of that? It tends to, especially in the pre-merge, go to the tribe who went to tribal council, who are in fact, as Jeff says, also known as
[01:02:52] the losers. Sorry for you. You'll get a fishy award. Exactly. No, I mean, it is a system that awards that, but also if you're just coasting by cause you want an immunity challenge, I don't think you need a fishy either. So I think that Mitch is right. The fishy is broken, but it's because of how Stephen has handled it. Not because it's inherently rewarding losers. Um, I think that Stephen needs to go back to his
[01:03:17] roots and figure out why he's been doing this, um, nonsense of weather producers, multiple fishy winners. He needs to reevaluate how to cut an avocado. He needs to do all of that. And then he can talk to us again in my opinion. Okay. All right. But now you have all the power. Yeah. Um, so I would you give the fishy to this week? I'm actually going to give it to Chrissy and Cedric. Double fishy award.
[01:03:44] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. I agree with you though. It was so set on giving it to Bianca and then it was so easy. It was so easy to give it to Bianca. Um, but that's not the case anymore. So now we have to look at the rest of these people, the rest of the losers, as they say, Cedric, we think, you know, did he do the right thing? Did he not do the right thing? Chrissy, I think objectively probably did the wrong thing. I think that, um, uh, Mitch was possibly left out or on the split, but it wasn't his.
[01:04:14] I don't think he was left out. I think that that would be wild if Cedric went and only told Chrissy when we've only seen Cedric be much tighter with Mitch. So I think that would be, that would be a wild decision if he only told Chrissy and Chrissy didn't tell Mitch. Yes. Now, okay. If we look to the other tribes, like David drank a lot of, actually, can we talk about the milk thing? Oh, sure. Yeah. Um, the milk thing, like, I think is David, um, like, okay. So I, are you a milk drinker? Uh, I don't drink a lot of milk.
[01:04:43] Okay. I'm very cyclical milk drinker, milk drinker. Like some, I'll go through phases where I'll have like so much and then I won't drink it for months and months or even a year, but I think he's psychopathic for drinking whole milk. That's insane. That's like a step away from, um, you know, drinking like cream. Yeah. I think that he said none of this 2% crap. No, 2% is the way to go. It's insane. And, um, I think it was so funny that he tried to milk his own milk. And if he actually wanted to do that, you know, aren't there t-shirts that you
[01:05:13] can wear that induce lactation? Hmm. I, this, I don't know about. You should ask your wife. Okay. Um, but I'm pretty sure. So maybe you should get one of those R-Hap t-shirts for David. That'd be great. Um, but he doesn't deserve it for drinking a lot of milk. I don't think, uh, Eva could, I think that you can make a case for Eva who, you know, that is, it has this huge moment
[01:05:37] in the show, but then on top of that ends up then having this, uh, moment where that she ends up solving the beware advantage and then also gets an idol out of it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. So I think that, but that it is a public idol though. So I think that Eva is an option. I think that star is an option because star in her position, giving the idol away and building trust and burn or remending
[01:06:02] a bridge that was burned is extraordinarily powerful. And then on the green tribe, they all did a really good job coming together. However, I can't give four fishies away because that's, I'm not Steven. So I'm really torn on what to do at the moment, but I think I'm actually going to give it to Cedric much to your chagrin. Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. Because Cedric ultimately he used the information he had and he got exactly what he wanted. I don't think that his choice
[01:06:29] is necessarily a binary of definite bad or definite good. I think it's a subjective choice based on a lot of information that we don't have, but he got what he wanted and he executed it exactly as he intended to. So I think that Cedric gets the fishy, but the honorarium goes to star and Eva, but actually star. So you, you take note of that star updates. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. So I don't hate it. I mean, I think that Cedric,
[01:06:55] if we're going to be like a little bit more, I think that Cedric made the right move, but maybe for the wrong reasons, because I don't know if Cedric necessarily suspects that say might be as unpopular with the other tribes where that say, I think has a probably, I'd guess around, uh, you know, 30, 40% chance to be the mergatory boot next week. And so Cedric may be okay. Not have to pay the
[01:07:21] price where say doesn't have the chance to ultimately vote him out. The reason why I don't like that move that Cedric made so much was because that we know say doesn't feel great about Cedric and he ends up now going out on a limb, taking out Bianca to ultimately save say who say, I don't think would have done the same for him. Yeah. I think that's a fair point. I think that, you know, I did give it to him, but actually the correct choice was actually probably to give it to,
[01:07:50] um, the lost votes. Um, I think that I think we have to consider. Yeah. Yeah. Team Flint, because you know what, you know, I'm going to say my hot take. I don't hate lost votes. Okay. Hey, I have given you a lot of credit over the years as that I have said that you have been one of the people who made a lost vote work to your advantage in an incredible way. And I think
[01:08:16] that Bianca had an opportunity tonight to make a lost vote really work to her advantage. A thousand percent. And I think that, I think that lost votes are actually necessary in a six tribe format to make it more interesting because otherwise, you know, we're dealing with a three, two vote on both tribes, the last two episodes, super boring. And that is, I think that having lost votes in such a small tribe is impactful. I think the bigger question is, should you be doing these small tribes all the time?
[01:08:45] Probably not. But in that situation, I do think it makes it kind of interesting. The thing I, what I think matters is how you lose your vote. Like, I don't really love the, like, you know, you went on the journey and you must lose your vote. I think there should always be a question or a debate or a challenge or something. I think everybody's in agreement that like, let's not just do just random lock for the journey. So like, you know, let's have it be some kind of skill. I don't even mind if you don't have an option to opt out, but I think that everybody was pretty much in agreement. Dice game, not the best one they came up with. Yeah.
[01:09:15] I want to see three people come together. There is an extra vote, um, a lost vote and then something else, like maybe an idol that lasts one tribal council or something like that or two. And they have to unanimously decide how those are going to be distributed or like one is no advantage or whatever. And if they can't decide, they all lose their vote. Yeah. I think we had that a little bit, uh, last season. Yeah. Caroline and yeah, I feel like, um, I want to see more of a
[01:09:41] negotiation. Okay. All right. Well, very exciting stuff. Uh, congratulations to Cedric winner of the Fishy award. Anything else from your notes about this episode tonight? No, I really liked it. I thought it was great. Um, I think the season, this cast is full of like big personalities and I'm not really sure who's going to win. Um, I feel like a lot of different people have paths to win
[01:10:06] right now. And I think it's been very, even, even though we've had a disaster tribe, it's still been interesting to me. And I feel like we still know all of the groups, whereas other times, like I think on survivor 46, I feel like we really did not know two of the tribes as well as Yannou. And I think that this has been more balanced. It's been a wild pre-merge all the way around and you know, they have done, I think a good job of creating exciting television, you know, as far as like
[01:10:32] these, uh, lost votes. And I think that people have argued of like, Hey, was it not fair? And I think that that's certainly a debate you could have, but it was exciting. And I agree with Shannon and Gus's analysis of the deadlock versus the tie vote and why what they did was actually the right thing. Okay. Do you want to talk that through or? Well, so I agree like on paper that if you lose your vote, it makes sense kind of what they were doing. I think it's more interesting if people
[01:11:01] involved in a tie don't just don't vote at all because then you can game the lost votes in a more interesting way. However, if they're going to stick and to be fair, the president has already been set with their three-way tie votes where they don't let those people vote. So allowing the Sierras to vote now, allowing the Says to vote now actually is inconsistent with the, the lost votes they've done in the past because in a three-way tie, they should all vote them, but they don't. However, in this situation, the rules for the deadlock tie were always anybody not involved in the deadlock,
[01:11:31] um, has to agree unanimously. Whereas on a tie re-vote, it's the majority rules. And so I agree with Shannon Gus that when it gets down to the deadlock situation with Say and Cedric, allowing Say to participate in that conversation is too OP. She already had a bit of an advantage, um, over the lost vote by getting to vote in the tiebreaker, but it's too much power if you then carry over to the
[01:11:53] deadlock. Yeah. And I had said that I felt like that Cedric had already voted that it, that Say should go home, uh, on the first vote. And so say that Cedric, uh, should only be able to, uh, like had Cedric voted for Justin and then he could switch his vote to say, but I don't think that, uh, that Cedric should have had any other choice other than to vote for Justin or go home.
[01:12:19] Like, I don't think that he could have said, I've decided again, Say is still the person I want to go home. Yeah. That's where Shannon Gus and I disagree with you, Rob, but that's okay. It's all subjective. It's an interesting debate. Okay. And, uh, survivor decided that it's, that it's one way. And so, you know, that's, that's how it is. But I do, uh, I guess I don't, what is the role on the three-way tie now? That's what we need to know. I'm sure somebody needs to just do that so we can find out. We'll find out one of these days. Okay. Let me tell you about some other,
[01:12:46] uh, fun stuff we have going on. And so I don't know if you know this, Omer, uh, I think you do cause you've written for it, uh, that we have a reality TV newsletter. It's a weekly info blast called the confessional. And this week, teeny from survivor 47 wrote an amazing piece about what it's like to be a survivor contestant and have your season be airing and had that experience of having
[01:13:13] people on the internet comment on watching you. Omer, how did you deal with that? You know, this is a great article. And if I read more, I would have read it. I'm just not a, I haven't read a book voluntarily since the grade eight, but I think that, um, this is a very interesting, I just read the opening to this and it is fascinating. You go from the most, like, literally you have nothing out there and then you're always online. And I think for me, I, knowing the survivor, like I was such a fan the whole time and I was part of the online community
[01:13:41] for a very long time as well. Um, so I kind of knew what to expect to some degree. And then also to be fair, the internet was very nice to me. Yeah. I think if they had not been nice to me, it would have been a harder experience. And in that case, I probably would have, um, deferred away from reading stuff and having just my family send me the good stuff. So I think it is, I did fine with that part of it, but I also was very lucky and that's not the experience for most people.
[01:14:06] It's a great piece. Everybody should check it out. RealityTVnewsletters.com to read it for free and check out what Teenie had to say about that. And then check out the Blood on the Clock Tower crew. Now, Omer, uh, is normally with us on this one. We missed you. We missed you on this one, but all hell broke loose over on Survivors playing Blood on the Clock Tower. Check that out on our
[01:14:33] YouTube channel. If you're listening to the podcast, go to WatchRHAP.com to watch Survivors play a very fun game of Blood on the Clock Tower. I'm there. If you need your Steven Fishback fix for the week, he's there as well with a bunch of Survivor greats, including Omer's great friend, Marianne. And so check that out. Uh, very, very fun episode called Dwight Meyer, the Dark Knight. Yes. Then
[01:14:59] Omer, have you checked out any of my old school interviews this season? I have. I'm in the middle of Abby Maria. So once I'm done that, I'll move on to Todd. Yeah. Abby Maria was incredible. And then I had a really great interview with Todd Herzog the other night. A very fun to hear about what he's up to and some thoughts on Survivor 48. And then, uh, some thoughts about all things Survivor. You could check that out. I've really enjoyed getting to do these old school interviews,
[01:15:24] catching up with people. And you should check that out in the podcast feed or at WatchRHAP.com. Then you don't, you don't Dondi, do you? Love Dondi. Oh, love Dondi. Yes. Super, don't know spoilers. Super exciting finale of Deal or No Deal Island. Check out myself, Jenny and Chappelle recapping the finale. And we have our interview up with the
[01:15:47] winner of Deal or No Deal Island. You can catch that in our podcast feed and go to weknowdondi.com. Then the white, now you watch the White Lotus? This is the first season I've watched. Okay. All right. And, and without spoilers, uh, you, you into it? You like it? Yeah, yeah. I'm just, I, I, yeah, I'm, I'm into it. I'm, I'm, I think it's a bit slow for me, so I'm waiting for it to like really get going, you know?
[01:16:13] Okay. All right. Check out Josh Wiggler and I have recaps through episode six. We actually talked to Christian Hubicki, uh, last week about his appearance on the White Lotus. We talked to Godfather Carl earlier in the season. That's it. We know, we know scripted tv.com. And then brand new show just dropped. It's called Million Dollar Secret. Chappelle and Scali are recapping it in the Nothing But Netflix feed. You can hear all of their coverage when you go to
[01:16:44] nothingbutpod.com. Have you heard about the Million Dollar Secret? No, what is this show about? I have no idea. There's a lot of briefcases full of money. It's Netflix reality show. It's not Deal or No Deal, but somebody has, somebody has all the money. That's what I know. So it's a reality show? Chappelle said it's a really good format, so you could check it out. And if you want to know more information that they did a podcast, why you should watch Million Dollar Secret. And then earlier
[01:17:06] tonight, Omer and I were chatting it up with all of the Survivor Glitterati, where we are every single week over on ChatBCC. Go to robinswebsite.com slash VIP chat to join for free and hear all the things that Omer is saying during Omer's so funny during the episode, always has so many keen observations. If you say so.
[01:17:31] Yeah. He's doing great. Check out us. And what, over 20 Survivors there just chatting during the episode, talking about all the Survivor News of the Week. That's over at ChatBCC at robinswebsite.com slash VIP chat. All right. What's coming up for you, Omer? Not much. Just heading into summer. It's finally here after the very long, cold, gross winter. So very excited for that.
[01:17:57] Okay. Yeah. I didn't know that you were so affected by the seasons. It's because I hate driving in the snow, Rob. And I don't have the luxury of living in the South where you don't get any snow. I live in like the top of the South. All right. Well, how much snow do you get? I actually snowed a few times this year. Oh, okay. Well, that's global warming for you. Yeah. Yeah. But it was the first time in a couple of years we had some snow. We had a couple dustings. I guess. Maybe I should move down there.
[01:18:26] Hey, I wouldn't complain. Actually, I think now's not the right time. No. Maybe not. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Hey, I went to that Condor facility in Charlotte. Oh. You'll have to tell me more about that. I kind of want to go do a placement there. Okay. Yeah. That's why I'm telling you. All right. Yeah. I mean, it was like two years ago when I went. Oh, okay. Yeah. But I texted you the day I went there. You did. I didn't remember that. Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, thank you all so much for watching us. I love to read what you have
[01:18:56] to say in the comments all Thursday morning. I'm reading what everybody had to say about the episode. So please don't be shy. Of course, you can give us some likes on the videos. If you liked having Omer here, let us know over on YouTube. Okay. I go to watchrhap.com if you're listening to the podcast and you want to check out the video versions of this. And I'll be back on a busy Thursday with Gabe and Caroline and my exit interview with Bianca. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye.
[01:19:26] Bye.