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[00:02:24] I was texting you during the episode. I can't believe it. I can't believe Vula's going back to tribal. These are my favorites. To see the California girls and Kyle and Camilla, I couldn't believe that I had to lose one of them. It took me a long time to come to terms with. And then when Thomas goes out, and Thomas is like, I'm okay with this. I've gotten so much from this nine days. Maybe you are, Thomas.
[00:02:46] Right. I didn't get anything from the nine days. I just lose you on my screen. Honestly, this is one of the hardest exits for me of, I think, any survivor ever. I just like, I love this alliance. I love this trio. I love this tribe. I love like, Thomas was amazing. He was such a fun character. You know, smart in every way, like a great, like a fun player. Great soundbites. I mean, what? No, no, I just can't accept it. Is it, do you think, is there a chance we see Thomas on Survivor 50?
[00:03:15] I guess there's always a chance. Maybe like a second chance season though, like Thomas. Yeah. I thought, I mean. Yeah, maybe, you know, at some point, like look, Survivor 50 is happening and maybe at some point though, it doesn't mean that there can't be like some kind of like new era second chances that they do also. That's not Survivor 50. I just think they should bring him back now, you know, like send him back from the jury house, switch him out for one of the others, you know, someone we don't like as much. Send him to the edge of extinction? I don't want to name a name because I'll get in trouble, but. Okay.
[00:03:45] But no, you're right. This group was five characters that we've really gotten to know very well. And, you know, it speaks to like the good job that they've done so far of making us care about all these people. Like, well, I don't know which one of these people we're actually going to lose. Yeah. I couldn't stand it. I couldn't stand the thought of it. And they're all big characters. And then like, it truly, it felt like a kind of death. It's like, no, I know this is going to happen. I want to change it. And yet, you know, I can't. I don't have the power to change it because it's inevitable. They are going to tribal council. Yeah. Okay.
[00:04:15] Well, can't wait to break it all down here with you as we kick off another exciting week of Survivor here on RHAP. Tomorrow, I will get the chance to speak with Thomas and find out a bunch of questions from him about everything that went down at this tribal council and how he got into this predicament and so much more. So be there for that. And then on Thursday afternoon, I am going to be talking with Kelly Nalbandian.
[00:04:43] And I'll get a chance to talk with her and take your questions. And then, of course, we have an old school interview as well. Todd Herzog is going to be back on the podcast. Legend. Plus, somebody who had a rough vote out last season, Annika from Survivor 47, is going to join Chappelle and I on Club Condo this week. So a jam-packed week of RHAP coming your way.
[00:05:08] If you're watching us here on YouTube, get the podcast when you go to getrhap.com. If you're listening to the podcast and you want to watch us, go to watchrhap.com. That makes sense. Did you, when you saw Todd, did you feel like an innate kind of kinship with him? He was a Sesterninovian player. Yeah, that's a very good question. So that happened to be Todd's season in China happened to be during my one time in my life when I wasn't watching Survivor.
[00:05:38] But I heard about Todd and people had said to me, hey, there's somebody who's kind of like you. And I met Todd for the very first time at the Survivor 10-year anniversary party as we were celebrating 25 years of Survivor. And Todd was incredible to meet and, you know, looking forward to catching up with him on Monday. And you both have great hair. He has better hair. He had cooler hair. You both have great hair. He had cooler hair. But Steve and I also caught up with another one of your friends. Abby Maria was my guest.
[00:06:05] We caught up about the season of Survivor and so much more as well. You can check out that interview with Abby Maria in the podcast. Abby was wonderful. And I think it's evergreen. We talked about episode three, but she had so many stories about her life and everything. I thought that was such a good interview. Well, I look forward to listening to it. Yes. Okay. All right. Of course, plenty more in the We Know Survivor podcast feed.
[00:06:31] Let's get into this tribal council because this was such an interesting dilemma for all of the different players involved. After this tribe swap. And I thought it was such an interesting, we manufacture so many prisoners dilemmas on Survivor.
[00:06:48] But for Kyle and Camilla, they legitimately had a real life prisoners dilemma of the two of them who were in this situation where if they work together, if they cooperate, there was a way that they could have gotten out of it. But either one of them could have sold the other one out and gone with the guys, presumably. Well, I guess maybe Kyle couldn't have because I think that's what he was trying to sell and they ultimately decided to vote him out.
[00:07:13] But that they stuck together and they solved this masterful lie and ultimately pulled it off. Yeah. It was really, really impressive. And I have to say the quality of the lying was like S-tier quality lying. Right. I mean, because first, you know, Camilla sort of starts it with, oh, I was on the bottom. And, you know, as Shain noted, Kyle didn't say, yes, she was on the bottom.
[00:07:40] You know, she was like, oh, you know, he played it off so perfectly in that way as though he were trying to. The fact that like in order to portray their rivalry, their alleged rivalry, they pretended to be acting as decent friends, you know, like, oh, we've got this connection. We're both Guyanese, like Guyanese. I think Guyanese. Guyanese. Yeah. You know, and but like so they. They really sold it.
[00:08:07] You know, they didn't like if they didn't most people in that situation go over the top. Oh, we hate each other. Like, oh, she's on the bottom. I hate her. She's you know, and what made it so it sold it so well was that they didn't oversell it. They undersold it. And that gave just enough of a hook. And it's like that, you know, that like when when, you know, Amanda Kimmel like tries to pitch, you know, use your idol, you know, use your idol poverty. You know, she like oversells it. And as a result, poverty is clued in. You got to be really subtle.
[00:08:36] Just give like enough of a taste that the person that kind of goes crazy with it. Yeah. And for this tribe to come together, when we saw on the mat that, OK, the three California girls are all still together. Plus now add Kyle and then Camilla. We thought there was no way. I was like, wow, this is a tribe that has a lot of. First off, they have a lot of advantages in this tribe. Too bad. This tribe is never going to tribal council.
[00:09:03] And they were on the screen and they were like, oh, Kyle and Camilla are lying to them. OK, great. OK, get back to me if this tribe ever goes to tribal council because they are so overpowered. And lo and behold, we get them going to the very first tribal council that they're eligible for. Sure. Now, do you think that being on Vula Beach and I'm totally sincere in this, like not that it was jinxed, like contributed it to it? Because like you don't get a good night's sleep. You know, you're sleeping on that terrible shelter.
[00:09:32] You don't have any, you know, no food, no fire. You get a horrible night's sleep. Maybe your brain isn't functioning as well for the puzzle. I mean, I really think that could be a part of it. Do you think there's anything to that? So I personally don't. I think that it was what didn't have anything to do with it. But I mean, do you have some survivor life experience that, you know, just knowing that when you have a terrible night's sleep, you're not as sharp, you know, for the parts of survivor that need mental acuity. I mean, certainly for the strategic parts, but I, you know, also for the challenges.
[00:10:02] It's just like it becomes harder. You become worse. I don't think it's like I don't think it had zero effect on them. Yeah. I don't know necessarily like how many days had they been in. Like, I think it was this day nine. I'm not sure exactly. I have to go back and look and see if is this the very next day after the tribe. So because I kind of feel like that they they they built a good camp once. I feel like they could do it again. Yeah, but you don't come out. I mean, nine days in, you know, with with, you know, and a new survivor and any other. Sorry, you just don't have the energy. You don't have like the will.
[00:10:30] And you also know that you're not going to be there that long, presumably. That's fair. So like, what's the point of building up this whole camp? Rob, I got a bad night's sleep last night on my bed and I'm like a zombie today. You know, can you imagine like a sleep on like a shelter in the damp and then, you know, you're like this terrible bamboo. Like I would not be able to do that puzzle now, given my, you know, six and a half hours. Yeah, I get that. Sometimes my wife just like takes all of the covers and then I'm like freezing and it's like the whole day is shot.
[00:11:00] So I guess I have to give some grace to them. I'll ask Thomas to find out whether or not the poor conditions led to ultimately them not being able to win at this puzzle. Do you feel like in terms of how the California girls played this, you know, knowing everything that, you know, in hindsight is 2020. Do you feel like what should they have done in terms of playing this differently? Well, with hindsight, right. I'm sure Thomas has thought to himself many, many, many, many, many times.
[00:11:29] Why did I not use my steal a vote? Then we could split the votes on the two of them. And if one of them magically did have an idol, we would have still been fine. So right. Like looking at the lay of the land now that we know exactly what played out, that was the correct move. He does a steal a vote on either one, probably Kyle, because Kyle was the target. Um, and that way Kyle can't play his shot in the dark. Um, does a steal a vote on Kyle. Then they've got four votes for the two of, for the three, for the three California girls.
[00:11:56] And they split the votes on Kyle and Camilla between the two of them. They only have one vote. So like, no matter what, one of them is going home. Between the two of them, they still would have had two votes. Would have had two votes. Right. But on a re-vote. Yeah. I wonder if they had, they knew Camilla had gone on a journey. Do you think that they thought that she had any advantage of her own? Or do you think that maybe she was telling them that she lost her vote? Right. I mean, that's a good question. Like I, that's a really good question. And then, you know, do you want to put the question?
[00:12:23] The other question is like, do you want to put the votes on the person who went on the journey or not? Right. Cause you're always worried that like, is the superpower. And I guess they have a sense that the superpowers are probably vote related. Um, hard to say like who had a sense of what Kyle, I'm sorry. Thomas certainly knew that. Um, but, but yeah. And I'm sure Thomas has relived that moment many, many times. Listen, I have been there. I know how terrible it is to play a steal a vote badly. The steal a vote's cursed too. Yeah. Reverse the curse, Thomas. Yeah.
[00:12:53] But, um, I do want to tie this back to Justin last week and Justin went on the journey and he lost his vote. And then he didn't tell Cedric about it. And then that got brought up as, you know, a reason to penalize Justin. Cedric, how could you keep Justin? He didn't even tell you about his advantage or, or, or his loss of a vote.
[00:13:12] I do wonder if, you know, we're seeing that, you know, Thomas had, he told Sha'een and Joe that he had this extra and it kind of came up. He had the opportunity to like, Hey, Hey, she got me. Uh, yeah, I do have a thing, but we can use it now against them.
[00:13:34] Uh, in, you know, in case one of them has something, do you feel like that, that the mistake was not sharing that information with his allies to kind of strategize with it in the same way that we saw the Davids come together in David versus Goliath? Oh, I have this advantage. I have this advantage. And the way that, that Kyle and Camilla did it, right? Like we've got this idol. It looks like the votes are going on you. You play the idol. We'll play the extra vote too. Um, so we have, Oh, did they play the extra vote though? It looked like there was, I think they did. I believe they did.
[00:14:04] Cause he had it out. We saw it out, but I don't know. I don't think they read the extra vote because the only two votes were read. Um, and I, I actually think, and again, not to bring it back to me, but I'm trying to use like my own experience to like empathize and add, you know, context of what I think I would imagine happened for Thomas. And I'm curious if this did happen. Like what's interesting about the steal vote is that it's so powerful that you kind of like get lost thinking ahead too much. You know, it's like a two vote swing on like an extra vote is a one vote swing.
[00:14:29] Um, which is like, actually can be decisive in, in more tribal councils than that one vote swing can. So you start to like play out the perfect time. Like, when am I going to use this? Like, Oh, it's going to be at the merge and I'm going to like, so totally flip everything upside down. And so, you know, he probably didn't want to risk, you know, this seemed like a relatively straightforward, you know, three to two. Um, you know, you don't know.
[00:14:54] I mean, yeah, obviously, obviously that's what he should have done, you know, but I'm sure he got lost in the fantasy of, wow, like this, I've got to play this at the perfect time. And clearly what he should have done was take that moment to fess up. He wasn't wrong. Right. In his read where we have a shine saying like, Oh my gosh, you know, if Thomas has lied to us, that's a huge violation of trust. Like, I don't know how I'll reckon with that. So obviously, you know, it would have caused issues within his alliance. So he would, that was a correct read.
[00:15:21] I mean, yeah, he, we know that he did the wrong thing, but if Kyle hadn't had an idol, you know, what would have happened? So, so sure. So I think that, and I'm always trying to look at like, Hey, well, what's the rule in this situation? What's the thing that people should take away from how this all played out tonight? I think that, you know, Kyle, he got up, he played his idol. He said, Hey, I have to play my idol. I remember survivor 46. We saw like from last week's tribal council, it was a great example. Anything can happen at these tribal councils.
[00:15:52] Thomas's advantage had already been compromised. He had it set up that it was the perfect secret. Nobody knew about it. And Camilla kind of spilled the beans. As you've talked about many times in second chances that you think that the right move is to, if you have this known advantage, burn it as soon as you can. So for Thomas, I'm sure that he had all these grand ideas of that. He was going to play it at the final five and have an all time move.
[00:16:19] But I think that it's all the more reason, especially in this new era. It's a three to two vote. And it's so easy for me to sound smart after the fact. But I think that when we look at all of the facts that Camilla had been on a journey, anything could happen. Either of them could have had an idol from their previous camp that you don't know about. So I do think that probably he should have played that steal a vote at that tribal council. Yeah. Or even the shot in the dark.
[00:16:48] I mean, the existence of the shot in the dark, right? Not that Thomas should have played it, but just knowing that it's out there. I mean, they presumably have heard. Maybe they haven't heard, actually, because no one from Old Vula is there. But I mean, you know, just the very fact of the shot in the dark. Like, yeah, play it safe. You know, if you're on the line, potentially. The steal vote would prevent the shot in the dark, I believe. So that's what I was saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be a way of stopping the shot in the dark from ricocheting back on you. I mean, you said it exactly right.
[00:17:17] I think once the information is out in the public, you might as well use that thing. Play it defensively. Get it out of your pocket so there's less suspicion on you. And of course, you are going to have to do some damage control with your alliance. But I think people mostly get it. You know, I think people are like, okay, yeah, he had a secret thing and he used it for our sake. And I understand, especially like, you know, I feel like Shain especially is such like an emotionally astute guy. You know, I feel like he'll be like, oh, yeah, that hurts me.
[00:17:46] But I but I, you know, I understand. You know, he feels like very like a sensitive. Where's he going to go? He's not going to vote out Thomas for, you know, wanting to have done that. And so I don't want to make this as like a hey, Thomas, you idiot type of thing. I just try to be forward looking with this in terms of like, like, what are the lessons that we take away from this tribal council for people to think about moving forward in the future? And I do think more and more it's that lesson from Survivor 46. Like nothing is guaranteed.
[00:18:13] If you have advantages, if you have idols, play them. You can always find more. But once, you know, things go sideways and you end up out of the game, like that's it. Yeah. And I mean, it really is two contrasting strategies because it wasn't like, you know, Camilla and Kyle were saying, let's just use the idol. You know, that should do it. You know, they're like, let's here's what we got. Let's pour it all on. And of course, it makes more sense for them because they're in the position of, you know, being the ostensible target.
[00:18:42] So they obviously need to save themselves. So they need to go harder. And, you know, I'm sure that also and ironically ends up hurting Thomas. Right. That he's in the majority position. What do you think of all of the different advantages in the way they played out? Like, is this fun Survivor? Like, is this like a fun use of the different advantages or is I mean, or not so fun? I mean, I thought this was a super fun Tribal Council today.
[00:19:04] Now, I don't know from the opinion of somebody who's not paying as much attention to what as we are in terms of like who had what? Were they able to follow everything that was going on? I mean, I think that if you were just not paying that close of attention, is the extra vote even part of your thought process? Is it just like, oh, he played the idol and they should have put the votes on the other person? Yeah. I mean, I agree that like I thought it was really.
[00:19:28] Because Camilla and Kyle, they really they played it so smart of that with with the extra vote that it would have been a 3-3 tie even if, you know, they put the votes on Camilla. Yeah. So, I mean, I mean, then like it's all it would be. I mean, honestly, then I mean, and the extra vote carries through. I know the steel vote does, right? Does the extra vote carry through to the re-vote? I think the extra vote does carry through on the re-vote. Do you want to just talk that out on the fly, which is always a little dangerous? Well, yeah, because then I mean, assuming the extra vote does carry through on the re-vote, which I'm sure has been tested. I'm sure.
[00:19:58] So three votes on Kyle and then there are three votes on on Thomas. And then they've got like when it comes to a rock draw, you know, they have all the leverage because there's only, you know, there's two of the California girls on the line and only Camilla on the line. So, I mean, it's a you know, it's a it's only it's a you think they would go to rocks Camilla and in that spot? Well, I'm saying the pressure would be on the California girls because like they've got a much higher chance of drawing the purple rock.
[00:20:25] Would Shaheen or Joe be more likely to flip? I think probably Shaheen, right? Like Joe is feels like I'm going all the way, you know, he could be the Vetus here on flip on the rock. Like, hey, like I'm not here to go to rocks at the fourth tribal council. Yeah. Although he's such like a I don't know. He seems like such I don't know. He seems like such a kind, empathetic human. Like I can't I can't betray my friend. I can see it going either way.
[00:20:50] And then we'd see Camilla be like, hey, Shaheen, did Thomas tell you about the advantage that he got? But yeah, exactly. It could be a replay of last week. Exactly. Yeah. Now, that would be a very exciting way for it to have unfolded. But ultimately, it's sorry. A loss for Thomas, who I thought in a lot of worlds could have been the winner of the season. I was sure that that group was going deep together. And I know such a fun alliance.
[00:21:19] I think they did too. Steven, do you think that there was any complacency when the three guys ended up being swapped together? Do you believe this? Right. I mean, I do think that probably like inhibited, you know, Thomas being flexible or more. You know, it's like, yeah, I mean, we've got this all. You know, obviously, the three of us together are going to be great. We're going to be fine. You know, it's just like a question of like picking off which of the two of them are in trouble. Yeah. And it does kind of, you know, you're not thinking like, oh, shoot.
[00:21:48] Like, what if some magical thing happens? And then I'm on the line. Well, not only that, they had the scenario where our whole alliance gets swapped together. So the three of us are together. And also these two don't get along and are trying to throw each other under the bus. I do wonder if this is the scenario where you're saying to yourself, this is too good to be true, this whole scenario. Yeah. I mean, I guess, but like they really sold it so well.
[00:22:12] And I think that is what differentiates, you know, Kyle and Camilla here is that they really sold it well where you have these very thoughtful guys. You have Shaheen like really kind of reading the situation and assessing it. Like, are they really fighting, you know, and then kind of deciding yes, like based on how they're acting. I think I think it all adds up. So, you know, I think you have to give them.
[00:22:35] I think the credit goes to Kyle and Camilla for the deception rather than the blame falling on the California girls for, you know, falling prey to it. I want to talk about when they first came to the new tribe where Kyle and Camilla got to first start to talk to Thomas and Shaheen and Joe. And we had the scene where Camilla was talking about how the guys or that she doesn't really get along with Kyle.
[00:23:04] And it was going so great. But then she brought up about Thomas's steal a vote advantage. And she brought up that she had been talking with star when they were both on the sit out bench, which we didn't get to see their conversation. But we had like a couple of shots of them talking. Yeah. And Camilla was running some of those details back and forth. And this is like some emergent gameplay from the new era of like people checking what's going on at the journey.
[00:23:34] So good job by Camilla and star trading notes. But we had Mitch's account of that, which did not line up with what Thomas had told star. And Camilla brings up this information. And I will say on a night that Camilla did a ton of great things. I thought that she did not play this correctly. You thought it was too chaotic, like too much drama? How did it go?
[00:23:58] I think that she brings it up in a way to sort of like drive a wedge in between the guys. And that Cheyenne instantly goes to Thomas and says, hey, Camilla is saying you got something at the thing. Thomas is like, she's lying. She's got to go. She's a problem. And ultimately, like she overcame that. The rest of what she did was so good. But just because and I think that there's a temptation that you find out somebody is lying about something.
[00:24:27] And it's like, oh, I got to expose the lie. I got to call it out. Sometimes it's fine. You could just sit on that. And there's other ways that she could bring up that information that, you know, in a way that she just went on a journey. And she could like, you know, bring up to one of the guys like, hey, it's so messed up this season that you don't get a chance to decide if you want to opt in or opt out of losing your vote. That's not right that they make you do that.
[00:24:55] And one of them says, oh, well, Thomas says that he like, oh, well, that's not that's not what I heard. Like, you can get that information out there without her coming out and accusing Thomas of lying. Right. To strangers. Right. Well, I mean, you know, there's an easier defense, though, to that accusation. Right. Which is, well, that journey was different. Yours happened this way. Mine happened this way. I mean, I think even just bringing it up in camp like that makes it sort of like part of the public record, you know, something that is like fact checkable.
[00:25:23] Whereas if she kind of just took one of the guys aside, you know, that might have been a little bit more a subtler way to do it. And of course, it would still probably make its way back to Thomas. But it wouldn't feel like as much like she's, you know, creating all this chaos that then sort of refracts or reflects onto her. Although to your point, ultimately, she wasn't their target anyway. I mean, she was Thomas's target and it did create some animosity between the two of them. But I do. I didn't hate it as much because they're in this position of needing to scramble, you know, because they know they're the targets.
[00:25:51] I don't think it's crazy to kind of push a little bit and see if anyone cracks. She doesn't know that the three guys are, you know, thick as thieves and they've got this really cute name for their alliance. Right. You know, from Camilla's perspective, this might be a way of exacerbating existing tensions between these three bros. It just that what she was doing with the guys exposing Thomas's life is a different strategy than the one that was going to be the effective strategy of her and Kyle are at odds where I'm at the bottom.
[00:26:21] I need help. Help me out. You guys are my, you know, then but then don't also be throwing Thomas under the bus when you are trying to get recruited by these guys. Yeah, I mean, that's fair. I just also think like she doesn't know. Right. Like, yeah, she like why not try everything? Yeah. Like maybe maybe they like the fact that I'm on the that I'm saying on the ads. Maybe they already don't like Thomas and they think there's this is just going to create more tension between two people who don't like each other and give like an opening.
[00:26:48] But the other way that in a roundabout way does benefit her is that I feel like that at that point, I think that Shaheen and Joe become tighter and that Thomas is a little bit more on the outs. And we had heard him feeling like a little bit that way that Shaheen and Joe had already had a closer relationship. But the fact that now that they're starting to talk about like, hey, is Thomas on the level with us on this? And then when they decide who are we going to vote for that Thomas says, hey, let's vote out Camilla.
[00:27:14] The other two guys are saying, no, let's keep Camilla. Let's vote out Kyle. And he gets outvoted. And I think he lost some stature in the group. And it also might have put some pressure on him not to tell them, really not to tell them about the extra vote or the steal a vote. Whereas, you know, if he had just been thinking through it abstractly and this Camilla thing hadn't happened, he might have been able to go and say, hey, by the way, there's this thing I haven't told you about. It's this. And like, I'm so excited.
[00:27:39] But the way it played out where Camilla outs him and then suddenly Shaheen is saying to him, hey, do you have this? And then, you know, immediately his defensive response is no, she's lying. Absolutely not. That's a lie. It's much harder than, you know, a little bit later to be like, actually, you know, actually, she was not lying. And I was lying to you. And I lied again when you confronted me about it. Like that that puts a lot more pressure on him. Whereas I can see the world where he just like later says, like, hey, this has been a secret.
[00:28:07] You know, if Camilla didn't kind of create that situation where he had to defend it. I want to talk about going through Kyle's bag. We see Thomas and Shaheen. They start looking through Kyle's bag, looking for to see if he has the idol. But they do it with Camilla right there. Very fun scene. Very fun. Very fun for us to watch. The misery on Camilla's face as she's trying not to look miserable. Yeah. Now, Shaheen is going through the bag, doesn't ultimately find it.
[00:28:36] We find out later that Kyle does have it and it's in the shoe. Was the shoe in the bag? Because Kyle seemed surprised they didn't find it. So Kyle was surprised they didn't find it going through his bag. I think the shoe was in the bag. And then he's like, it's in my shoe. Yeah. Why would you put your shoe in your bag? I mean, I don't know. Now, hold on. Let's go back to in Token Sheens. We have some idol searching in the bag. What was going on there? Oh, no shoes in our bags. No shoes. Yeah. No shoes in the bag. You'd look through the bags, you know, but like you would never, you'd never look through. I mean, you never put the shoe in the bag.
[00:29:05] Who went through whose bag? I don't remember. I think maybe, I don't remember. Taj was involved. Taj was involved. Yeah. And maybe there was something with Joe, but Joe didn't have anything. I'd like Taj. Oh no. I think maybe Taj planted something. I don't remember. I don't remember. Yeah. We convinced Joe that, you know, there was an idol and the Joe had a fake idol. Oh, this didn't make air, did it? That's why you're asking. Um, yeah, like I don't remember.
[00:29:35] Anyway, Joe had a fake idol that Taj made. Okay. Yeah. So the thing is the idol is so tiny. Like, uh, it's just, it's like a B on a screen. You're not going to feel it from just doing like a pat down. Yeah. You really got to get in there. I know he didn't do, I'm sure he felt a little bit like it was a violation. So it's still like, you're uncomfortable to watch a little bit. Yeah. Why is that in, you know, the new era, everybody's gaming so hard. Why is this like the one thing that people kind of feel icky about? It's your only possession out there.
[00:30:05] It's all you've got is your little bag with your dirty clothes and apparently your shoes. If you're a weirdo. So, you know, going through like, like someone's one thing. Yeah. Yeah. Would you ever do this? Oh yeah. I mean, you've got to now. You've got to. It's just like, it's so hard to find. Yeah. There's also, I think like the pressure, the time pressure, right? You don't know when the person's going to come back. You don't want to be like, you know, have all their stuff out, you know, their shoes willy nilly. Mm hmm. Yeah.
[00:30:32] So I really want to come to the bottom of this shoe thing because like, do people put their shoes in their bags? I just don't get it. I don't know. Maybe. I mean, I don't think you leave your shoe out with an idol in it. Under the shelter. I guess their shelter didn't have like an under, just like leave them out. Come on. Yeah. Why don't these people wear their shoes? I mean, everyone knows that foot health in the jungle is like one of the best. Well, listen, take it from me. Foot health in the jungle is one of the most important, you know, things to stay on top of. Yeah. It's very important. Idols have never been easier to hide on your person.
[00:31:02] Yeah. Really? Because they're so small. Yeah. They're so small. You know, put them in your hat. Well, yeah. You know, like the Cody hat. You can weave them into a hat. You can weave them into a hat. So there's all sorts of places to hide the hidden immunity idol. Okay. Okay. Steven, anything else on this group? Because I think it's an interesting setup for this group if they go to another tribal council now that they have a clear 2-2. I don't think we've really seen this. Yeah.
[00:31:28] That would be really interesting and fun, especially because nobody's got any firepower anymore. Yeah. There is a Vula idol. We did see it before the tribe swap that there was the camera ended up lingering on the Vula idol, which is on that beach. But nobody seemed to be hunting for it based off of what we saw. Yeah. I mean, you've got to assume everyone's poking around a little bit. Like, that's just like the baseline. You know, it doesn't even need to be shown anymore. That's just what's happening. Everyone's kind of poking around. Okay.
[00:32:24] Yeah. It doesn't even need to be seen as a reveal of the actual information being exchanged right when it's narratively relevant. I thought that was really beautiful. Let's talk about some of the other tribes that we saw in this episode. We have the new Siva tribe, which is Chrissy and Mitch. They stayed where Cedric and Say joins them. And Bianca is a person who's there on her own. What do you make about this new orange tribe? Yeah.
[00:32:52] I mean, I was interesting that, you know, more like more animosity than we. I mean, obviously the interesting relationship to talk about here is like the most interesting. I mean, there were so many like the Cedric Mitch thing was really beautiful. And again, I found myself getting teary eyed again. Like I didn't sleep well last night. Um, so, so, um, but, but like the Cedric Say thing is so interesting.
[00:33:12] And I think that is really kind of at the heart of what we should talk about vis-a-vis the Siva tribe because Say's mad at Cedric because he voted twice against her. He's like, yes, he saved me, but he also like repeatedly tried unsuccessfully to betray me. And, you know, that's why, that's why Cedric screwed up by saving Say instead of Justin last week because he had already, you know, crossed his Rubicon. You know, it's not like when Cedric was crossing the Rubicon, he's like, yeah, let's go back. Let's go, I've changed my mind.
[00:33:42] No, let's go back across the Rubicon. You know, you go across the Rubicon once. That's why Cedric says the Rubicon is crossed. The die is cast. You do the thing and then you commit to the course of action. The die was cast for Justin. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that you make a great point. And last week we, you know, came on right after the episode to talk about all that. But just in the days following, there was so much discourse about all of it that it really does feel like that Cedric did make the wrong decision. I mean, maybe at the time, I don't know if I ever thought Cedric made a good choice.
[00:34:11] I mean, Say I thought played it perfectly. Like, you know, again, all credit to Say. And all credit to Say for recognizing that Cedric is not a loyal ally to her. He's twice tried to vote her out in one tribal council. And, you know, that's her rate is correct. You know, he did ultimately save her. But, you know, it's reasonable for her. And that is, again, like why Cedric really messed up. Like, you make the choice and then you stick with what you did. Because otherwise that other person is always going to resent you for the clear evidence they have of your disloyalty.
[00:34:42] Yeah. I think that we've seen this a lot in reality TV in the recent weeks of that when you were in a forced tie. Like, if you started in a tie, just keep going. Don't flip your vote, you know, mid tie break. You got to play it out. Yeah. Otherwise, everyone's going to be mad at you and you're going to lose it anyway. Yes, that's correct. Yeah. So, yeah. And so that is interesting.
[00:35:07] There was obviously a very funny contrast where Say is fully, you know, telling Bianca, don't trust Cedric. You know, do your own reads. But Cedric has betrayed me. And then Cedric is like, what Say and I really have is trust and loyalty. Yeah. Like, poor Cedric. Poor benighted Cedric. Yeah. Well, the episode starts and you hear Say mention that she feels stuck with Cedric. And then, of course, the survivor gods are going to put them together after the tribe swap.
[00:35:35] And this is really presented as two, two and one. And that's how Bianca is reading this of like, okay. And she ends up going to the two that she feels like, okay, I'm going to go with Say and Cedric. And Say is like, maybe talk to Cedric. And Bianca is like, okay, got it. Now I found the crack. The problem for Bianca is she found the crack on the side that she was going to go work with. Meanwhile, Cedric has already started talking with Mitch and Chrissy.
[00:36:05] And so I feel like that Bianca is on the wrong side of this already. Plus, she doesn't have a vote. Yeah. But it's interesting that Mitch and Chrissy don't have any, you know, the fact that they were together for seven days and never got to talk strategically together. But I don't think there's any ill will. I don't think there's any animosity there. But there's no like built up loyalty. No loyalty. So it almost feels like that Cedric and Mitch are sort of like the base of power in this tribe. Yeah.
[00:36:31] And if, you know, Mitch brings Chrissy and Cedric, you know, out of his misplaced sense of loyalty brings Say, then Bianca is out on the outs again. Yeah. And now Bianca has such an interesting scenario here where she doesn't have a vote. And she really needs this to be a three versus one. She can't be looking at this. And obviously, she's not because she knows.
[00:36:58] But for the other pairs that are out there, you know, she can't really present herself to say in Cedric as, hey, I'm the piece you need to vote out Mitch or Chrissy here because that's not going to work. Yeah. I mean, on the other hand, if it's a 2-2 tie and she's, you know, not a part of it, like, hey, that's all right. Not my problem. Well, just play that out for a second because I think it's interesting to think about. Okay. So, like, she sort of, like, has – maybe she presents to both sides, hey, I'm going to be voting with you.
[00:37:24] So there's Say and Cedric, and then there's Chrissy and Mitch, although it seems like that Mitch and Cedric are going to be on the same side of whoever. But let's just say for Devil's Advocate, it's 2-2, and then she didn't have a vote. So I feel like on the tie break, okay, is it only – and again, this is – I hate to bring up the tie break rules again. So let's say it's three votes for Say and three votes for Chrissy. Okay? Now – all right. Now it's a tie. We can't vote for Bianca. Wait, three votes. I'm sorry. Two votes.
[00:37:55] Two votes for Say. Two votes for Chrissy. Now – okay. Now it's a tie, and we can – you can only vote for – so Cedric – Well, who knows? The rules for the tie seem to change every episode. So it would then be at that scenario, Cedric and Mitch could only vote for Chrissy or Say. Bianca is ineligible. Yeah. Yeah. Now, that being said, then we would –
[00:38:21] If there was discussion, if it got down to the discussion, would they be able to discuss sending Bianca out? Yeah. So then if they would have to tie break again in that scenario – okay, so Cedric and Mitch go back up again, and then they cast their votes again for Chrissy and Say. Now, okay, we are deadlocked, and now we would have to have either Cedric or – This is very funny. I mean, this is the problem with these complicated rules. Cedric or Mitch, one of them would have to flip their vote, or they would go into a three-person rock draw with Bianca.
[00:38:52] Right. Or the discussion, right, where Bianca doesn't have a voice, and it's Cedric and Mitch and Bianca choosing who goes home, except Bianca can't speak, and therefore Cedric and Mitch will – She can't speak, but she doesn't have – what she ultimately decides is not part of the equation. Well, I thought the point – well, right. Well, she can speak. Yes. We're not taping her mouth shut, but she doesn't have a voice. She doesn't have any – yeah. And one of those two guys would have to flip their vote, or we would go to a three-person rock draw with Bianca in it.
[00:39:23] Very wacky. Mm-hmm. Do you think that's what Bianca is hoping for? Is that the play for her? Well, I guess not, because you're right. Like, if it is a tie – and obviously, that's not a realistic scenario, because it does look like Cedric and Mitch are working together, so it doesn't seem like that's going to happen. Yeah, I feel like that Cedric, the way that he's, like, been making compromises might, at that point, turn to Mitch. It's like, okay, Mitch, Christy, if I flip against Say again here, if I finally vote her out, then you'll keep me. We've got something good here. And they say, yes, you have my word, and then I think that Say would go home. Yeah.
[00:39:53] Now, if it's Cedric that is part of the – that they put the votes on. Again, I don't think that would happen, because Mitch and Cedric. But more to come on that in episode five. Steven, let's then talk about what's going on over with the new Loggie tribe. Interestingly, we have Star, Eva together again, David, Charity, and Mary.
[00:40:19] Now, I had wondered last week what would happen with Star and her beware advantage. What's interesting is that Star ends up getting very lucky that she doesn't have to switch beaches, so she still has a shot to solve the beware advantage. But your prediction was that, you know, suddenly they're going to find that, you know, find it. But what would have happened if she had switched beaches? Because this was just a random draw. She would have just lost her vote until the merge, I think. Wow.
[00:40:49] That would suck. Yeah, that would have sucked. But ultimately, she still has a chance. And it looks like in the preview there's going to be some running around. Doesn't it ever say in these things, like, as long as you're on this beach, you've lost your vote or something? I think it's up until the merge. I think that that was the language from the Survivor 41 and 42. They need to change the language, like, as long as you're on this beach. Or the merge. Whichever first. They need a whole, like, you know, codicil. Okay. So, it really was all about David here. Yeah. Everyone loves David. Everybody loves David. Eva loves David. David. Yeah.
[00:41:19] Charity, like, you know, wants to bring David along. Yeah. Thinking that he is her patsy. Bringing him along. But it's interesting because that David and Charity were not really vibing at the old tribe beach. And then here, she tries to do, like, the reverse of Kyle and Camilla. Like, we are so close. Yeah. He is, like, such a great ally of mine. That we have such a bond of loyalty. And that he is just such a stand-up guy. Meanwhile, she's like, he's an idiot.
[00:41:50] Well, but it's interesting because situationally, I think she's right. Right? Like, the Kyle and Camilla thing is they are, like, unequivocally on the bottom. They're at a 3-2 disadvantage. So, for them to kind of, like, play it off against each other was obviously the strategically correct thing to do. Here, it makes sense to say we are unbreakable. You know, you're going to look for the crack in the loggies. And to say, like, us two are not going to crack. So, it's going to have to, that crack is going to have to come from the loggies. So, I actually think Charity played it right here. I mean, David obviously undermined that. David didn't.
[00:42:20] And quite the opposite. But, you know, then you have Eva throwing, you know, Star under the bus. Yeah. We don't really get to see Star's response, unfortunately. I can't imagine she was, you know, standing strong for Eva. No, I don't think so. Now, what do you think is going to happen if this tribe goes to a tribal council? I mean, I honestly think, you know, it's going to be Star Charity probably from what we've seen. Yeah. So, it seems like everybody, David is so well received here. Yeah.
[00:42:48] And, you know, David has, like, all these allies now from all these different tribes where, you know, David, I think, gained the most in this episode where that you had the people, like, he had, like, a four-person alliance on his old tribe and now comes away with allies in Eva and Mary. Who else is there? It's also, you know, hopefully Star. Yeah.
[00:43:15] Uh, and, uh, yeah. Old school Survivor, mid-30s Survivor, where David is winning. If you've got two sequences about how much you need to win this money so that you can propose to your girlfriend. He's at least getting the Sprint Fan Favorite Award so that... Exactly.
[00:43:44] Sia, come back and watch Survivor. We have a job for you. Do you believe in love, Sia? Come on. We need you right now. Yeah. But in this world, it's hard to say. It's really hard to say who it's going to be. And Mary, you know, totally in the clear here. Wonderful. Yeah. Mary is really gone from being on the way out to now very secure in the game. So I think Eva made a mistake here by saying... And I thought
[00:44:13] this might have blown up in her face, but it didn't seem to. She said Star is on the bottom. We all hate her. We all are targeting her. For most people, they're going to think, great, we saved Star! She's on the outs. We bring her in. And I think, like, just like, tactically, I don't know. I think that might have... That seemed like it could have been a misstep. It didn't end up... Nobody kind of jumped on that. It didn't end up having an effect, it seemed. But when she said that, I was worried for her. So can I ask you about your own tribe swap experience? And let me
[00:44:42] ask you from Second Chances. Where... Okay, so you are with Jeremy and with Kimmy and Monica, right? And those are all people from your original tribe. And then here comes Spencer and Kelly Wigglesworth. And ultimately, first, maybe throw the challenge to get rid of Monica? Or is it... We don't care if we win the challenge. Yeah. I mean, why did Jeremy... How sick was Jeremy
[00:45:12] feeling that he set out that challenge? You won wonders. You don't know. You don't know. Okay. Must have been really sick. Yeah. Okay. So then a similar decision to this of, you know, potentially of Kelly and Spencer fighting with each other, right? Right. Yes. Both, like, making their... Both making their cases of why they should be the one to stay if it does come down to it. And how do you make that decision? How do you, like, believe it? Well, apparently we did, you know, a dark horse candidate and asked Monica. Mm-hmm.
[00:45:42] Yeah. But, um... Was that because both of them made compelling cases? I think it was a terrible choice on our part. Mm-hmm. I think some people... I mean, it was... Some people felt that Monica was going to be disloyal. Whatever. This is getting too into the weeds of Cambodia. I think it's informative. I mean... How does, like, a group of people... And, you know, you... I would say that you and Jeremy and Kimmy are, like, the California girls in terms of, like... That's nice. Thank you. Wow. How do you make the decision of who to keep when, you know, two people are sort of, like, trying to sing for their supper? Am I Joe in that equation?
[00:46:11] Do you want to be Joe? I'd like to. I mean, really... I feel like Jeremy is a little bit more the Joe. I know. Jeremy's probably Joe, and I'm probably Shaheen, you know, with the beard. Mm-hmm. You know, and Kimmy is Thomas. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you're right. Like, it does come down to, like, vibes. I mean, obviously, with a returning player season, there's a lot more. Like, I knew Spencer. I mean, can I call him Spencer? Just for convenience? I mean, he was Spencer then. He was Spencer then. Right. But, you know, Ryman. I knew him.
[00:46:40] And, you know, so... And Jeremy knew him. And so I felt a lot of loyalty and closeness to him. And I kind of said to him, you know, I'll keep you. Obviously, there was something fun about playing Survivor with Kelly Wigglesworth, you know, who I had watched play Survivor many, many years before. So, yeah. I mean, I think you're kind of like... And then, you know, you get into this position of dominance where you're like, hmm, who's working hardest around camp while he lays around? You know, who's really hustling to, like, please me? You know, you do get into this sort of, like... It's so crazy just how these kind of, like,
[00:47:10] primal dynamics end up playing out so quickly. You know, whereas, like, a day before, I was, like, this little weasel, like, scuttling around to save myself. And now I was, like, walking around camp like a king watching these two, you know, desperate to please me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. Like, it comes down to vibes. It comes down to who you think you can work with. Again, like, with the returning player season, it's a little more tricky. I mean, do you guys have a tribe swap? Didn't you? We did have a tribe swap in Survivor, the Amazon.
[00:47:39] And I was much more of, like, I felt like I was at the bottom. I felt like that I was looking ahead and I thought that Matthew might be voted out before me. But I was worried, like, if we go to two more tribal councils before the merge and there's no tribe swap, I was really feeling like I could be in trouble. I felt like that I was, you know, at least at that point, there were six of us and I felt like that I was fifth in the pecking order. Right. And so, and I thought there was a possibility because Matthew had just, like, caught a fish
[00:48:08] and I thought that there was a chance that I could be the person who goes out if we went to another tribal council. And so we won the tribal, we won immunity in the fourth episode and I was safe and then we had the tribe swap in episode five, which was what I was hoping for. And then everything changed when I got to be around some new people who appreciated me a little bit more. Dina. Yeah. Dina, Jenna, Shauna. Yeah. So that was the tribe swap. The Na Na Nas. Yeah. Did you ever do Na Na Nas?
[00:48:38] I did do some Na Na Nas in Survivor famously. And so they, you know, brought me in and the rest was history. So the tribe swap can really change your fortunes. Yeah. It truly can. And it's wild how, you know, it does up and everything. Not only scenarios like the tribe swap in real life where it's like, okay, well, you know, you have a nice comfortable life and now you're trading places with this person who's really like just scraping by
[00:49:07] and now switch lives. Yeah. The prince and the pauper though, Rob. Yeah. Yeah. It worked that well for both of them. But they wanted it. They wanted it. Like, oh, I'm so tired of all the trappings of running the tribe. I wish I was on the bottom. I could be the scrappy underdog and then people would root for me. Right, right. The grass is always greener. Yeah. Yeah. I did think that Say so immediately throwing, you know, Cedric under the bus was kind of a mistake because it, you know, that's not how you might sing, right?
[00:49:36] Like even Say says, right? Like when, when, when Say says like, you know, now we're going to swap and we're going to watch you guys pick each other apart and we're going to be the swing votes. But like, not if you're throwing each other under the bus. Like the whole point of the Mott Singh strategy is that at the end of it, you're all like a tight little trio, you know, and then, and then you kind of work together to pick the other teams apart. You don't still keep picking yourselves apart. Right. But I just think that the wound is so fresh between Say and Cedric that I feel like that I'm worried for Cedric
[00:50:06] because Say does not forget. Yeah. All right. Wait, one other thing I wanted to say was, do you think that Jeff was kind of like feeding now that it's kind of become a thing that, you know, the person Jeff asks to summarize their journey might be the person going home. Do you think Jeff's kind of playing into that or he really gave Camilla, he was kind of like, Camilla, how would you summarize this journey for you, for yourself? I was a little bit worried. I think that maybe he was like maybe playing that up for them,
[00:50:36] but then he did go to Thomas and that was where I was. I didn't know if it was going to be Shaheen or Thomas. And then when he asked Thomas about his journey, I was like, oh, Thomas offered it. Thomas was like, you know, what do you think Thomas? And you know, then he kind of like he ran with it. Yeah. Yeah. I think he kind of like, you know, now that it's become, I wonder if like Jeff is kind of like, you know, not letting the players metagame him, kind of mixing up the metagame. Yeah. I do wonder, it's also selection bias of like what we ultimately see in the episode. Like who knows? But the editors then are metagaming, right? Because they're then
[00:51:05] like faking us out. Someone is metagaming someone. That's all I care about. Yeah. Okay. Steven, let me talk about a couple things and then we'll get into our fishy award. Big news this weekend. Blood on the Clock Tower, of course, a passion project of Steven Fishback, of Christian Hubicki. The fans love it. We are back with a big episode coming up on Saturday. And that,
[00:51:34] Sam, what time is that going to drop at? On the RHAP YouTube channel, you can, at two o'clock, you can check it out. Go to watch. 2 p.m. Eastern. rhap.com to get everything you need to know and subscribe on the YouTube channel to see Survivors Play, Blood on the Clock Tower, episode three. Super fun game. You know, as you can gauge a little bit about it from the giant image we have of Owen with red eyes
[00:52:04] and horns coming out of his head. But it was a really chaotic and extremely fun game. It's really fun to interact with these people who I've watched on my television, you know, and play, see them in like a different strategic environment. And then like, we've got like some like just great confessionals. I mean, some of these people, you know, they're good. They know what they're doing. They know what they're doing with the camera. If you're a newcomer to Blood on the Clock Tower, I'm going to try to hold your hands as much as I can through it and keep everybody, whether you are
[00:52:33] a novice to the game or somebody who's an expert, should be a lot of fun coming up on Saturday. Then, we've also got everything that's going on over on Patreon where I will be taking questions from our listeners. If you've got questions about the Survivor episode, I would love to hear them. I'll be taking them live coming up on Friday afternoon. I do that at 3 p.m. Eastern. Go to robhazaw website.com slash patron for that. Okay? And then also,
[00:53:02] you can join us over every week when we chat during the episode over on ChatBCC in the Survivor group chat. Go to robhazaw website.com slash VIP chat. Had a lot of fun there talking about the episode with everybody. All right, Steven, Fishy Award time. Oh, yeah. Great. I was going to say about the ChatBCC, like, it was very fun because Mike Bloom, you know, who's active over there, you know, brought out who the, what the three tribes were and I, as well as many others, very confidently predicted that Vula was going to be fine. That there was a question of,
[00:53:32] you know, you know, was it going to be Siva or Loggi and, um, nope, we were wrong. Yep. Blew it. Okay. But Steven, tonight, a big night, who gets the Fishy Award? I feel like this is a layup and you're not going to like it, but I do think it needs to go to two people. Are you okay with that, Rob? I don't love it. I don't love it. Well, let's let, then we can talk it through. All right. I'm going to, I mean, obviously it should be Kyle and Camilla getting the Fishy Award. They took this 3-2 deficit. They perfectly played up
[00:54:01] their rivalry by underselling it such that the California girls completely believed it. Then they deployed their advantages correctly. They correctly read that Kyle was going to be the target and so they gave Kyle the idol and especially when Shain was going through his bag, that kind of confirmed it for them. So they took the evidence of the game and then they also played their extra vote so that even if the idol, it had not been Kyle, there still would have been a re-vote where I think they would have been strategically advantaged. So they used their, the advantages they had,
[00:54:30] they played it beautifully. I think they played it so beautifully together. I would like to give it to both of them. Tell me why I shouldn't. First off, is that a fishy for Kyle and a fishy for Camilla because people keep stats on this. Rob's fact checker is going to be. But I feel like they're better than me. I say it's a fishy for both and they figure it out. Okay. All right. But a fishy for both or is it a half fishy for each? A fishy for each. Of one fishy. It's like the Oscar or like, you know, when everyone, it's like any of those awards. Like when the producing team gets a statuette, every single one of them gets a statuette.
[00:55:01] So with all due respect to Kyle, I feel like Camilla did more to make this. And I think that, you know, you know, failure is a bastard, but success has a million parents. But in this case, if I was going to break up like the, dole out the credit, I think this was like 70% Camilla, 30% Kyle. And maybe there was more that we didn't see in the episode, but we saw that Camilla is just a gifted, creative storyteller, AKA a liar.
[00:55:30] And I love watching her so much. She's so much fun. She's so chaotic. But I think that we saw her really selling this to more people. The fact that she was able to really convincingly sell the idea that she was at the bottom, she was willing to jump ship. She did not waver. Like there was a world where she could have really, you know, well, I guess she knew Kyle had the idol, but I think she could have like potentially tried to like, hey, Kyle has the idol. Like, let's make him feel
[00:56:00] like a false sense of security and then we'll blindside him with the idol. Like she could have gone a different way with it. She ultimately really stuck to this plan and then ultimately, you know, gets out a really big player out of the game. I didn't love the way that she blew up Thomas' spot. I would give it to just Camilla, but it's your award. Well, let me make the case why I think Kyle actually, because I think Camilla, like she started that lie, right? She said, you know, I'm at the bottom and that kind of opened the door to this lie,
[00:56:30] but it was Kyle who really sold it, right? It was him saying, oh no, I wouldn't say that. That's not the case at all. Like it was that type of underselling it that I think that's what really sold it. I think if Kyle had gone in there and said, yeah, you're at the bottom and we hate you, you know, then suddenly their, you know, their spidey senses are going to be tingling and everything goes a different way. I think the way that Kyle sold it, you know, and again, like even the way he sold it at tribal council where he plays up, oh, you know, we've got this bond and I really like her and I'm so sad to see her go. You know,
[00:56:59] that's how you would play it. It was subtle. If you really like cared about some, I mean, I'm sorry, if you really weren't getting someone. So I think that he did it beautifully. You know, part of me just wants to give it to only Camilla so that you, you know, so that the Kyle stands can rise up against you. But I think I really, I really feel like they both deserve it. So I am going to give it to both Kyle and Camilla. Double fishy award. Now, Stephen, now we were talking schedule earlier. It sounds like next week you're not going to be able
[00:57:29] to join us for the know-it-alls. And so coming back from spring break. Woo! Okay. All right. We're going to have a scab know-it-all here to take your place next week. But Stephen, do I have your consent to give out the official fishy award next week? Oh my gosh. Well, with this, you know, kind of dissension, no, I feel like we're usually pretty in sync about this other than, you know, this week. I like to give out one award. That's it. No bonus fishy.
[00:57:59] I like the cut of Rome's jib. I'll give you, you know, power of a fishy. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. So episode five, I will give out the soul fishy next week. Now, Stephen, we haven't done any sort of edit check-in. Are you up? Are you prepared for that tonight of like, I can't, I'm out. I mean, I can't try. I, the new era has broken me on it. I know there are people out there who claim to be able to I don't care about like their official thing. I mean, what I like about it is that it's, you don't have like the
[00:58:29] scientific data of, okay, this is like exactly what's going to happen. But they're really good at giving everybody a story. And it's so hard when two tribes haven't been to tribal council, so many players, we haven't seen them at all, you know, barely, barely. I mean, you know, I feel there's people we could rule out who I think I can reliably say are not going to win. You know, I would not, I would be shocked if Chrissy won or star one, you know, even honestly, even Mitch, as much as, as much content as Mitch has gotten for some reason, I think that like he's gotten less of the strategic content
[00:58:57] than some of the others. And, you know, who's on your short list though to win? I mean, I really, you know, I, there's so many though, you know, it's so hard. I really, what do you, you tell me, you started off. I think Camilla, I feel like is the person that I really have an eye on. I think that Camilla has just been very much in the spotlight. I think that she would be a very fun person to go on and win the season if she goes on to win. She said in the preseason, I'm going to play a very fluid, messy game.
[00:59:27] That's going to be very fun for people to watch. And so far, she has lived up to that. So I think that her as a winner, I think would be very interesting. I think Kyle is- Canadian. Can we handle another Canadian winner? Well, are you trying to provoke a fight between our country and Canada, Stephen? No. I'm trying to heal a fight. Stoke the tension? I think we can handle it. Kyle, I think, is certainly in contention. Shaheen- After everything Marianne has brought on this country, you don't think
[00:59:56] that's enough? Kyle is in the conversation. I think Shaheen, I feel like Shaheen, maybe I'm a little bit lower on after this episode, going through the rest of the tribes. Yeah, they really showed him getting snowed. They really leaned into him as the one who got snowed. Yeah. What about Joe? Joe is kind of a non-factor. People love Joe. Yeah. People say Joe is a big contender. Joe is a non-factor, but also a non-factor in an episode where his side, things did not go well. Yeah,
[01:00:26] and that's right. Well, that's right. Often people who are edit readers will say they're protecting him from being part of that. We've certainly seen a lot of Joe's sort of moral center and his person. I mean, we saw him at the very start with talking about how proud his kids would be of him. I think Joe is very viable. I don't think Cedric is viable. No, I don't think so either. I honestly don't think Say is viable. I think we've got, I mean, she's been a huge character, but a huge character when she was really at the center of the action and what you look for with edit manipulation, and I hate even talking about this because I'm always wrong,
[01:00:56] is you look for, That's what's fun about it. Yeah, it is what's fun about it. You look for when people are inserted in ways that is not necessarily central to the narrative. So David would be someone you'd have to consider, again, hearing so much about. Yeah. I think Mary is also somebody that we should keep an eye on also. Yeah, Mary too. I mean, she was kind of like, we didn't get a lot of her in like the first episode, so there you're like, why did we not see so much Mary when, you know, she ends up being, you know, having a huge role in the next two episodes. So, I mean,
[01:01:26] we saw a little bit of her, you know, enough, but I wouldn't say she was one of the biggest characters that popped in that episode. And just for, you know, the record, like if we did this after episode four of Survivor 47, I do not think we would have said that we thought Rachel was a contender to win. Yeah, absolutely not. So, yeah. Something to keep an eye on. Yeah. Okay. All right, Steven, let's then talk about a couple other things going on here on RHAP. Dondi is really heating up.
[01:01:56] We're down to the finale of Deal or No Deal Island will be next week on Tuesday. I talked about episode 11, the ultimate episode of Deal or No Deal Island. We had two exit interviews this week. You can catch that all we know Dondi.com and over on our scripted TV podcast, I'm talking about The White Lotus with Josh Wiggler and did you happen to see our friend Christian Hubicki was on The White Lotus? I saw it. That's so fun with Emily.
[01:02:26] Yeah. So, check that out. Emily Hubicki, not Emily Flippen. Yes. Okay. You can check out my coverage with Josh Wiggler over at We Know Scripted TV also where they're going to be doing a bang-up job talking about the Severance season finale tomorrow. So, that's all on WeKnowScriptedTV.com. All right. Steven, anything else on your mind? No. You know, just, you know, please sign up. So, apparently, my newsletter form is now working again. We'll see. You know,
[01:02:55] StevenFishback.com. There's a newsletter. Sign up. Be the first in your friend community to hear about all the fun events. Let's be, yeah, a fish influencer to learn all about the events. I will be doing events like in cities across the country and, yeah, you know, sign up. I'll, you know, coming to a town near you. All right. So, looking forward to all of that next year. And then, also, we'd love to read your comments over here
[01:03:24] on the YouTube video. I read them every week. I love to wake up on Thursday morning and read what everybody had to say. So, please, there's one person I didn't like to read who's like, why do I have to listen to a podcast with Steven Fishback about Survivor? Like, really? Like, there's no other podcasts for you to listen to about Survivor, even just if you want to listen to Rob Sesternito and any other people about it. There's only one podcast about Survivor, Steven. I apologize. That was my burner. Okay? I'm sorry. I apologize. Yeah. Yeah, no, but I do listen.
[01:03:53] I do go through all the comments as you can see and judge them. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love the back and forth with the community. I love to read what everybody has to say. So, thank you so much for participating in this conversation with us. And as long as you're respectful, I don't mind if you say we got it wrong. Yeah. I mean, but try to be extra respectful. Okay. Yeah. And say Rob got it wrong. That's fine. Listen, they say Rob got it wrong all the time, but I love to read it anyway. So, thank you so much, everybody.
[01:04:23] Take care. And we've got a busy Thursday coming up here on RHAP. Have a good one. Bye. Bye.