Today, Rob Cesternino and Stephen Fishbach discuss Survivor 48 episode 11.[00:00:00] Hey Sandra, wir haben uns ja lange nicht mehr gesehen. Grüß dich, Nadine! Mensch, du siehst ja toll aus! Ja danke, ich habe mein Plus fürs gesündere Ich entdeckt. Was? Komm, ich zeig's dir! Die Bewegungskurse der AOK Plus. Kostenfrei für AOK Plus Versicherte. Entdecke dein Plus fürs gesündere Ich und starte mit unserem Selfcheck. Ganz einfach online auf aok.de. Aus Liebe zur Gesundheit. AOK Plus.
[00:00:32] Die Barsche ist ein bisschen mehr als ein. Wir sind jetzt schon mal. Wir sind jetzt schon mal. Die Barsche ist ein bisschen mehr als ein.
[00:00:50] Sieben, jetzt sechs hier in Survivor 48.
[00:01:23] Und, of course, we are back here to talk about it all with the great Steven Fishback. Steven, how are you? Wow! What an episode, Rob. Big moves, crazy things happening here on Survivor 48. Now, how do you take that tone when right before we came on, we said about this season, you said, you know what, I actually, I really like this season. I'm like, okay, great. Can't wait to talk about it. We turned on the podcast. That's most exposed. I thought all the stuff that happened before the podcast.
[00:01:52] Pick a lane. What is it? I thought that happened before the podcast was all secret. I thought that was just, you know, shop talk. And then here we present our official, official. Yeah, but I feel like why are you being like negative before the podcast starts? And then we turn on the switch and now you're like, or I'm sorry, you were like so positive before the podcast. No, I'm happy to, I will stand up for season 48. I am. I'm thrilled that we can talk about it. Not this episode.
[00:02:19] I will not stand up for this episode of season 48, which was a real will they or won't they? And they didn't. I thought this was better than last week for the record, but we'll talk about it all as we all sit and wait. It's like the great Gatsby, Steven, as we sit, not the great Gatsby, waiting for Godot. Yes. So we wait and we wait and we wait for a big move that may or may not ever come. We wait for Joe Go. Joe Go. Yes. Yes. Yes.
[00:02:48] What was the word that Joe spelt in the puzzle? It was like go, go, go fun, betray or something. Yeah. I mean, look, I know your adrenaline is up during these challenges, but yeah, Joe spelled something that was not even, not even words. Go fun, betray or something to that effect. Yeah. Yeah. Got fun betrayal. Got fun betrayal. We're looking for a fun betrayal, but no, none to be had here in Survivor 48, but we'll
[00:03:18] talk about it all and talk about where I think I have a pretty good sense of where this goes from here. And I'd love to talk about it because I don't know if we are on the same page about that. So stay tuned, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you joining us here week after week as we break down the final couple episodes. I believe two weeks from tonight, we will be at the finale of Survivor 48, but plenty to do between now and then tomorrow morning. I will get the chance to speak with Mary and you can catch my exit interview, of course,
[00:03:47] in our We Know Survivor feed. Go to weknowsurvivor.com for all things Survivor. And so as far as Thursday goes, we just had a late scratch in terms of our great guest, a late scratch. We're working on rescheduling. So TBD for Thursday's podcast. I'll definitely bring you something. But then we'll also have the great guest fee. Party Shallow is going to join us on Monday.
[00:04:16] So be on the lookout for that one coming up. Plus everything else I do with this patron Q&A club condo as well. So join us for all that here on RHAP. All right, Stephen, Mary, after all the hair, it looked like they dangle the like, OK, it's happening. This is it. OK, this is not a drill. Let's go. And then ultimately we get a six to one vote for Mary.
[00:04:46] I thought it was really going to be a pile on Joe here. I mean, they really set it up. They had a whole arc for Kyle, right? They had like Kyle starts the episode. I don't know. I'm in a great spot. I don't want to turn on Joe. We've shared such deep things. They shared. They shared things. And you turn on to vote against Joe would undermine those. And then you have right before the end, a confessional from Kyle. I've made up my mind. I am with Camilla.
[00:05:16] And you're like, wow, that's a story arc. You know, he goes from indecisive to being decisive. And he's going to make a move. You know what? I knew things were not going to go that way. And was when we got Cheyenne's confessional, which was like, I'm mad at Joe. And Joe is this hinky vote thing. Maybe I'll switch to Joe. I thought to myself, that is a confessional that sounds like someone who's trying to create ambiguity, not someone who actually is going to vote out Joe. Joe.
[00:05:45] And so I thought, I don't think Cheyenne is on this Joe plan. And then I thought, maybe there's still a world. But no, no world. Hey, can we talk about the move of the episode before we get into the actual episode? Sure. David standing on the jury. Never been done before in the history of Survivor. At least not. Yeah. And like, I thought, I mean, actually, like, I'll be honest when it happened first, I was like, is he going to fight? Like, is he, is he ready to throw down?
[00:06:13] But then I actually got a little moved. And I think, again, it's because I'm very tired today. But I got a little like moved at this, like, you know, unusual display, you know, using the limited kind of tools he has as a silent juror and respecting that, but also showing, you know, a little tribute to someone he was close to. To honor Mary. Yes. My favorite part of that was Star is like cracking up laughing as he's doing that. Like Star is like hiding her face during that moment.
[00:06:43] Like Star cannot believe what she is witnessing. Yeah. It was a very, I mean, it's never been done or certainly it's never been seen before. I'm sure like stuff has been done that just never made the edit. As I've mentioned zillion times before in token chains, everyone applauded at the final three when, you know, that didn't make the edit. But like someone just like standing in tribute. Very, you know, it's a game changing move. That would, that would legitimately qualify someone for game changers. Do you think that we are on the heels of potentially having a wave from the jury box?
[00:07:13] This, I mean, once you stand and everything, it's like the first time JT, stood and crossed the room. Yes. Standing on game changers. Suddenly after that, it was like every tribal was like. Yeah. And fortunately we've come back. We wish. We wish every tribal was like this. Not a live tribal council to be had in Survivor 48. No, I'm happy though that we're not in the like everyone running off of the corner. Very dead tribal councils happening in Survivor 48. Yeah.
[00:07:41] The antithesis of a live tribal council. So yeah. So they really, really, really teased it. The whole episode was like this building up of like, this is our shot. But even the whole post merge has been a tease of a big move that's coming where I, listen, I had a lot of colorful analogies about this. And I could go in a number of different directions in terms of colorful analogy.
[00:08:10] But I just feel like it's almost like with, as a dad, it's almost like you like tell the kids, hey, you want to go for ice cream? You want to go for ice cream? Okay. We're going to go for ice cream. We're going to go for ice cream. And then the kids, the kids are like, yes, we want to go for the ice cream. And it's like, not today. Yeah. How did you feel? Listen. I definitely love that. I wouldn't come on this podcast and complain if they didn't like tease us with the big move and hold it.
[00:08:40] Everybody like Mitch, Kyle, Camilla, Shaheen, Mary, we're all, we're going to make the big move. We got to do it. We got to make the move. And then Joe narrowly avoids winning immunity and it's Camilla's night to win immunity. It's like, all right, baby, it's now or never. Okay. Last week. Club condo. Let's go. Yeah. Last week. Look, I was disappointed last week, but I said, Hey, they don't have to do it at eight.
[00:09:10] They still have a chance at seven to do it. And then here we go at seven. Everything falls into place. Joe doesn't win immunity. Eva says, Hey, I'm not going to play my idol tonight. I'll play it. I'm going to play it at five. And so it's all working out. Everything is aligned. And then ultimately Mary goes home and which I was really also thinking there was so much Mary content in this episode. It really did feel like it was Mary's boot episode.
[00:09:36] So let me start and ask you, did Mary potentially screw things up by announcing that she was going to vote for Joe? Did that potentially unsettle the delicate plan to backstab Joe? No, if anything, I think it like makes it easier because you don't have to include Mary in the plan anymore. Like I think people were a little tentative or trepidatious about telling Mary like, you know, that they wanted to vote for Joe.
[00:10:05] I mean, Kyle says that, right? You know, I want, I'm considering blindsiding Joe. I don't necessarily want Mary to know that because who knows how she'll use that information, which is a good point. Like she could go to Joe and be like, Hey, Kyle's fun. But for Mary to say, I'm voting for Joe. Suddenly, you know, there are, there's at least one vote going on Joe. So you can add your votes without even including Mary in the plan. I mean, you know, are they mad at Mary because of the coconut situation? Coconut etiquette.
[00:10:35] But, and that is a very, I have to say that will wear, and especially a season that's so focused on honor and integrity. You know, lacking food honor is very shameful. Sure. But it's also day 21 and we're trying to win. You could win playing for a lot of coconuts here that I feel like that if Mary is not a perfect citizen when it comes to her coconut consumption, I feel like we can look past that to work with her in order to get closer to the win. Yeah.
[00:11:05] I am with you about that. I think, and also like to her point, nobody is taking her on reward. It's, I mean, for Mary does not eat. So I felt that, although she was on that one reward, but I mean, that was on Twitter. Oh. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, the, the, um, were you sad? Were you sad for Joe that it looked like he was going to get booted? No, not at all. I mean, I've been waiting for somebody to at least make the attempt on Joe.
[00:11:35] And, you know, if Joe can sniff it out. Yeah. I mean that we saw Mary just say she was going to write down Joe's name and there was a whole unraveling from Joe. Yeah. Um, I mean, you know, so I go back to what I mentioned last week on the podcast, um, Heather Cannon's tweet about like seasons where this dominant figure just sort of like marches to the end of victory.
[00:11:58] They always show how everybody else should have and had the opportunity to take that person out and then didn't do it. And that's what I think this episode was. And that's what I think last week was like, you guys had the shot, you talk to yourselves in circles around it, and then you blew it. And this is sort of like, you know, they were like, this is the like, why so-and-so won season. This is why, you know, Russell lost season. This is why the everybody else lost season. Yep.
[00:12:24] And if Joe goes on to win the season, I think we will go back to this night and say, this was the night that they had the chance to take the shot at them. Now we did have some encouraging signs from Kyle where last week I really felt like that. Kyle felt like more that he was locked in with the four. And this week we saw a thawing where Kyle is now considering a move against the four.
[00:12:50] However, Kyle even told his number one, Camilla, that he is in fact a lawyer and not a teacher. And in Survivor 48, in the post-merge, I think that's the biggest move of the post-merge so far. He missed the opportunity for the big reveal. David got voted out. But other than that, yeah, it's been, you know, very quiet. But this was maybe the most game-changing move of the night. Yeah. He missed a chance to like drop the bomb at final tribal. That might have just squandered his final tribal.
[00:13:19] Maybe for everybody else, he would go on to do that. So, all right. So there's been a little bit of, okay, Kyle and Camilla are coming back together. But ultimately, the big move does not happen tonight. And we can talk through what might have gone wrong. But Steven, this is where I think this is going. I think I see the path of what's happening.
[00:13:41] So while it would have made a lot of sense for the big move to come tonight, I think that Kyle and Camilla's big move ends up being that they never go for Joe or Eva. They end up taking the shot at Shaheen. And then go to the final four. Kyle and Camilla with Joe and Eva. Mitch ends up being fifth.
[00:14:09] I think that next week, and this is also informed from, we see some talk in the preview. I think that Kyle ends up, that Kyle and Camilla, the plan they originally tried to use against Shaheen with David, they end up using on Joe and Eva and convince them that Shaheen is the snake. And they vote out Shaheen next week, leaving a final five of Kyle, Camilla, Joe and Eva.
[00:14:37] And then Mitch feels like, hey, I'm in pole position. I did it. Like, hey, let's make the big move. And then Mitch gets treated like star last week. We're like, I don't think so, Mitch. We're happy to go to the final four with just us. And then I think that Kyle and Camilla are doomed to a date in the final four fire making. Interesting. That actually makes a lot of sense for this relationship between the two of them of, like, we're, like, the best allies.
[00:15:06] Like, Tony and Sarah, that they end up, these partners in crime or law enforcement end up together in the final four fire making. And Kyle being a finalist, I think, over Camilla, just, like, in terms of how much care and attention his edit has received, I think, like, that is very viable, right? Like, seems, like, extremely likely. Although I'm also, like, I'm, like, you know, Kyle's, like, Kyle is, like, very Jesse coded, right?
[00:15:33] Like, he seems very much the Jesse, like, this is all these tough moral decisions and I'm doing this for my family. And, like, you know, I don't know if he said that, but, like, you know, he could have. He very well could have. Yes. You know. So, that is very much Survivor in the new era of that, you know, you can do something that is dastardly to one of your other people in your alliance if it is for the betterment of your family.
[00:16:08] Yeah. I think that is a very good read. I think that is a very good read. Yeah.
[00:16:34] You know, last week we heard all the promos were about, like, the Piranhas and this week it was all, like, oh, are they going to finally, you know, turn up? This is the moment. We got, like, the Mitch clip. Oh, I got to make my move. And it never happens. Yeah. So, I certainly, we certainly saw a teaser about, and they have really been playing out this, like, oh, they're showing you never an idol. But I am not totally sold on that. I think that's a very viable narrative.
[00:16:58] It seems like such malpractice, and I'm not sure why we saw so much of Kyle and Camilla over the course of the season for them to just vote out Mitch at six and then basically take it to five and then either, you know, sucks for you. Sorry for you, Camilla. Or Kyle and Camilla reveal themselves then, and it's like, well, we have three and you have two. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It wouldn't be the first time we saw some, like, big duo that ended up, like, kind of going nowhere.
[00:17:28] Yeah. Yeah, I guess. But to me, I just feel like there has to be some payoff to all of the Kyle and Camilla that we've seen other than, you know, we had the Thomas vote early on. But I just think that they have one move up their sleeve, and that might be what we're building to, where they never, and I think for Kyle, I think he sees this as, I'm going to be able to have my cake and eat it too. I'm not going to betray Joe. We have shared things, okay?
[00:17:56] And that I will take the shot at Shaheen and do so in a way to make it look like Shaheen shot first, Han Solo, Greedo style. And if Eva is not, let's say Eva's, you know, safety without power next week, let's say Joe wins immunity, then they might be like, this is the only shot we have, so let's do it. You know, it's essentially a five-person tribal council. So that's viable. That's totally viable. I think that's a pretty good read, Rob. I like that.
[00:18:23] But I have been wondering, you know, so much of any Survivor season, like they kind of set it up in terms of the antagonists, you know, who is the last kind of boss for Joe to face? And I do think Kyle is probably that boss or Joe is Kyle's boss. But I kind of think there's also a world where Joe is his own final boss, and I kind of see where we're seeing like his paranoia get into him. It's getting the best of him. And I think that there's a world where like that is Joe's struggle.
[00:18:52] Everyone else is just like spinning in circles, but Joe's struggle is like, can I control my own paranoia? Yeah. Joe is the only person who is a good enough antagonist for Joe. Joe really had such a struggle in this episode with that Mary said she was going to write his name down. We never have seen Joe really come under attack in any serious way at any other point during the season. I think he's had the immunity necklace three times. He had a chance to win it for the fourth time.
[00:19:21] And Joe was going to really try to get some support from the rest of the team of like, all right, Mary says she's writing my name down. What are we doing? Mitch, whose name should I write down? Like, listen, Joe, the answer is right. Just write down Mitch's name. You don't have to get the consensus from Mitch or Kyle or Shaheen or Camilla's name. But, you know, that look, Mitch is the answer. Like, stop asking other people what to do.
[00:19:50] Yeah. Yeah. Or, I mean, I guess that's what I would do. Right. Like, you just don't know if you know your name is getting written down. You know, I think you like take that risk. I mean, on the other hand, like if it's going to piss off your whole alliance that you've basically articulated the person who's next to go. Who cares if he pisses off Mitch? Yeah. Where is Mitch going at the final six? Yeah. Well, no. I mean, especially if Mitch is the next on the list, it's like, OK, you know, so you're mad. Yeah. I mean, this seemed like so obvious of that was the next move to make.
[00:20:20] I mean, Mitch is clearly next, if not Camilla. And if Mitch ends up getting mad at you at the final six, where is he going? What is he doing? You have a four-person alliance. Who cares if Mitch gets mad at you, Joe? Yeah. Is there a world where Kyle is right not to take the shot yet? Because if Kyle takes the shot here, then his alliance is himself, Camilla, Mary, and Mitch. Eva and Shaheen are super pissed at him. Yeah. And they want him gone next.
[00:20:50] And Mitch and Mary are like, I don't have any thoughts for you. Are you worried that Mitch is going to go to rocks against the three of Kyle, Camilla, and Mary? No, I just think that there's a world where it just gets flipped right back on them. Like, I don't think Mitch has to go to rocks. Mitch and Mary could both be like, let's get out Kyle next. I mean, there's a world where, like, this is not a bad choice for Kyle here. Because, again, like, let's say he makes this move without Shaheen. Then he's got Eva and Shaheen super pissed at him. They're like, let's get out Kyle next.
[00:21:20] But who's going with Mitch and Mary? Who are what? Mitch and Mary? Mitch and Mary. Why not? Because when it becomes, I mean, when it becomes big target whack-a-mole, Kyle is the second biggest target. So, like, if I'm Kyle, you want to wait until the last possible moment to vote out Joe here. Because if you, you know, from my perception as a viewer, and maybe he has a self-perception as a player, like, he's number two, right? It's not Shaheen who's number two. It's not Eva who's number two.
[00:21:44] And so if Joe goes, he becomes, suddenly, like, this whole power structure that has actually, like, protected him is destabilized. And he's the next obvious boot. So that's certainly a concern. I think you can still frame it as, you know, who's a big target? Eva, who's still here. You know, we still have to worry about Shaheen. And so I don't know if necessarily, you know, Mitch and Mary are going to be, you know, ready to, like, pendulum this swing.
[00:22:12] And I think that Camilla is, like, a stabilizing force. I think that if I'm Mitch or I'm Mary, I think I want to try to get to the end with Camilla. And so there is a concern for Kyle. But I do feel like that I think I would rather attempt to go up against that field in immunities, take Joe out of the picture, potentially have a really good shot to win immunity at five and four.
[00:22:40] So I still like that path better for Kyle. And I think that Kyle still has to untangle the Joe of it all because I don't think he can beat Joe in final travel council. Yeah. And I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Yes. Because, but, like, I do think, like, how many times over the years have we said, you know, that person took their shot too soon? They were number two. Either side is without risk. Yeah. And you take your shot. And then next week you're voted out. And you're like, oops, like, I should have waited two weeks. And so much is about timing.
[00:23:09] You know, so much is about getting the person out right at six or five. And then you go into the finale with this, like, big, you know, with this big, you know, kill on your hands and get, like, this huge resume point. And nobody has enough time to get you out after that. So in some ways, like, it's not horrible. Like, I do think there's a world where Joe just wins out from here. And we're like, they never had another chance to take him out. But I don't think, like, it's such a hard balance. And Kyle says it.
[00:23:37] It's like so many people are like, I took my shot too soon. And then they're screwed because of it. And so many people say, I never took the shot. And they live with that forever. Yeah. And, like, so much of the rest of their lives, Kyle said. Yeah. I mean, so much of that, I mean, that is luck. It's like you, you know, like, you have to just do the right move at the right time and hope that it works out. And if you didn't, you know, like, maybe he made a tactical choice. I'm going to wait on Joe.
[00:24:07] And then he screwed up because Joe won all the subsequent immunities. But there's also a world where he takes the shot here. He's voted out next. And we're like, gosh, that was so dumb of Kyle. You know, and we would be seeing a totally different story, too. We'd be seeing, like, reckless Kyle, like, going too fast. I don't know. I mean, is that how we talk about Jesse? Do we talk about reckless Jesse? Yes, a lot of people say that about Jesse. That is a very common talking point. Also, people say Jesse's a legend. Bring him, many people say, bring him back. But is he going back?
[00:24:36] I don't know if he's going back. He said no on Twitter. He said no. So it's like it didn't even work out for him in that capacity. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, but, listen, you become a legend or, you know, I think that what we're headed towards is a half measure where it's like, okay, I'm not going to make the big move. I'm going to, you know, try to play the game at the margins.
[00:24:58] And ultimately, I don't know if the jury awards that game to the winner as opposed to the person who played the game that is a little bit more understandable for the jury. So let me talk about Tony Blachos. Potentially one of the greats, one of the survivor greats, you know, is very in competition for one of the greatest ever, right? Yep. Good time winner. I'm familiar with his work. Okay. You know him. Okay.
[00:25:26] So he said to me, I've talked about Spencer and, you know, or Ryman, who was Spencer when Tony played with him. Yes. And he said, like, the reason he had kept Ryman around so late is because Ryman was always the target. And if he had voted Ryman out, then Tony is the next target. So he kept Ryman, like, right up until the final four. Yeah, four, right? Right. I was out fourth.
[00:25:51] And then he voted him out because that was when suddenly, like, then he could, like, then he was in the final three. And of course, it was the final two this season. Yeah. But in this sense, I feel like that Joe is the Tony here and Kyle is the Spencer Ryman. Well, but only because we think Joe might win. Unless you think Kyle wins. I don't think Kyle wins. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:18] I think, though, that, like, if you are Kyle, there's a reason to keep the big. I mean, again, like, I think, like, the story was very clear. This was the wrong move. I think this was the wrong move. That's that I do think there's an argument to be made that, like, if you're Kyle getting rid of Joe in this situation, gets rid of your biggest meat shield. And suddenly you're very exposed. And let me take this opportunity to give some credit to Joe, because I feel like that. And I don't know if this is calculated.
[00:26:43] I will never know if this is just who Joe is or does Joe use emotional relationships as a strategy in Survivor. And I don't know that I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that this is just who Joe is.
[00:27:04] But that, for whatever reason, the way that Joe is playing the game has made Kyle feel like that he cannot betray Joe without being a bad person. A person that he is proud of. That he cannot make that move against Joe and then still hold his head up high. It's very like Tom Westman. I mean, Ian, like, quitting the challenge to, like, win back his approval.
[00:27:31] Yeah. And I just, I do feel like that Kyle needs to separate himself from that. This is still, at the end of the day, it is a game. It is a game with human relationships. But I feel like that those two things can be separate. Like, Kyle can be a good person. He can respect Joe and then ultimately make the move that's best for him. Right? Yeah. So here's what I like about this season.
[00:27:58] I know that everybody's so down on this season and you started the show by outing my enjoyment of this season, which is really not socially acceptable. Only because you started the show by mocking how nothing happens. Yeah. No, I was going to come around to explaining why I like this season. I think it's interesting and I do think it's something that we've missed. And it has made a somewhat boring post-merge.
[00:28:19] But I have missed this tension between the players of, like, I have a good human connection to these people. My decisions have moral weight and it's a game. I feel like the show has been so much the other way. And again, like, Jesse actually was kind of an outlier in that capacity where you really saw him wrestle with the human elements and then, like, make that decision to actually still betray Cody.
[00:28:42] But, you know, I think that it's something that is missing from a lot of seasons recently where it's like we are all game bots doing the optimized move. And, like, whatever algorithm is, like, the best is the one that, like, triumphs. And I think there's something very nice about the real human component of it of, like, these are real deep relationships I have. These are real. And I feel like a moral compulsion to care for these people because I have bonded with them so quickly.
[00:29:06] I mean, even Shaheen's thing when he, like, goes out for that fishing expedition and is like, I never could have imagined how deep these bombs would get over 20 days. Again, that's only half what we used to have to play. Just FYI. But no, but, like, truly, like, you know, I miss that aspect. I think we were merging on day 20. I digress. Yeah. And Gabon, I don't think they had even, like, had a swap yet.
[00:29:32] But they, and I imagine that it's more there for the contestants than we even see. But I do think that, you know, to see that again at the forefront of the show, to me, is really interesting in a way that a lot of the other seasons, like, they're exciting. Right. Like, that's what I kind of tune in for. And that's why I really like it. I still like the season in spite of the somewhat slow post-merge. Yeah. I do hear what you're saying. I see your point.
[00:29:56] I feel like it's just such an overcorrection of where things had been, where, okay, I am just, you know, making moves for the sake of making moves to the point where it seems to us at home there are obvious moves that are to be made. And people are not taking those opportunities because of the social relationships that are there.
[00:30:21] I mean, the Joe and Eva relationship, which is really at the center of the show and has shaped so much. To me, it just feels like that, you know, are we even playing Survivor, the Joe and Eva relationship? Where, you know, I just feel like that, does anybody in the world think that Eva has a chance to beat Joe in this game?
[00:30:47] Is there one person in the comments who thinks Eva would win in the final three with Joe? Like, what is Eva even doing? But I mean, like, this is what Coach was preaching in season 18 token schemes was like the strongest go to the end and then make their case and the jury chooses. I mean, Eva does have a case and I'm sure she tells herself she has a case. You know, she has got all these advantages. You know, she, um, there's probably relationships she has that, that Joe doesn't have that we haven't seen to the same degree.
[00:31:16] Um, let's talk about Eva because Eva had an interesting day. Yeah. Okay. Or a day. Yes. So Eva gets to go to on the, like, I mean, just like, uh, compared to last season, not to like, uh, put, you know, put Survivor 47 at the top of the Pantheon. But you know what happened at the final seven in Survivor 47? Oh, I know. Operation Italy. Mm-hmm. One of the great episodes of the new era. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:43] You know what happened on like the, like, uh, late merge journey? Like, Rachel did the thing where she was like moving the balls around and then the, like, it was like Indiana Jones. The thing goes sliding off. And, you know. It was like the saw, the saw puzzle. Super exciting, like pivotal part of the season where Eva goes on this journey and it ends up being like such a nothing of that Eva. Anyone but Eva gets that, though.
[00:32:10] Anyone but Eva or Joe gets that and, like, it's a big moment for the season. I'm sure, like, when the producers saw who drew that purple rock, they were like, this is the worst possible scenario for this. Like, Eva has all the advantages. Knowledge is power is useless for her. And so she just, like, takes it. First off, I was disheartened to see Knowledge is power back. We had not seen Knowledge is power in the game since Survivor 43. I thought it was over. I was happy to see it not come back into the game.
[00:32:38] Uh, I am not a huge Knowledge is power fan. I think they have to put it in every so often just to keep it alive as a possibility for the players. Like, one of the things that Knowledge is power does is it forces the players to be secretive about their advantages, which I think serves the show. It's like in Clock Tower, you know, every so often you put a butler, you know, because we usually don't play with the butler. Yes, but every so often the storyteller puts a butler in the bag just to remind the players there could be a butler out there.
[00:33:08] It could be, yeah. Yeah. I wonder if getting this stack of eight was unattainable. Like, I wonder if it was, like, nearly impossible to get it. And so that the Knowledge is power was the incentive, the carrot to try to get somebody to go for eight, whereas it would have been nearly impossible to do it. I was excited that Eva was going for it because I kind of felt like that Eva losing her vote really opened up some interesting things strategically.
[00:33:37] That being said, uh, alas, it was all for naught. Eva just, uh, walks away and we're just for nothing. Yeah. Can you combine the Knowledge is power and safety without power advantages? Like, the without power and the power cancel each other out, you know, like, Knowledge is safety. Hmm. Knowledge is safety. I think in a lot of ways it is. Yeah, or safety is a type of knowledge. Yep. Safety knowledge. That's also very important. Yeah.
[00:34:06] But, so, Eva goes and then, I, I, also, can somebody check the hourglass that, uh, I feel like that the hourglass still had sand in it. She kicked her thing over. Uh, didn't she have to have the four towers, the four layers still there when the sand ran out? I think, she just said, I think she tapped out. We all know some producer was there. It's like, you're good. You're good. I don't know. I'm a stickler. I feel like Eva should lose her vote.
[00:34:35] You should sue as a viewer. You might have standing. Yeah. So, we saw Joe say in episode one, I would lose the game for Eva, but I feel like what has actually happened is that Eva has, uh, really, you know, I don't know if she feels this way. I feel like that Eva is going to lose the game for Joe. Yeah. Have we seen a duo that is this exposed? I mean, truly, like, like, just like, like, JT and I weren't, I mean, we were pretty flagrant, but, like, we weren't this flagrant.
[00:35:05] I'm like, oh yeah, Joe will never vote me out. We're together till the end. He was, we would never turn on each other. In the new era. I, in the new era. Yeah. You know, it's hard for me to, like, I think that we've had seen some pairs like D and Julie. Um, but I mean, not like this. Yeah. You're really inviting. I mean, the fact that that's one of the big miracles of the season that they can say things like that and not be voted out. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, look at what happened on the reward.
[00:35:35] Eva is like, well, you know, uh, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna play my idol tonight. Uh, and then if I win immunity at five, I'm gonna play my idol on Joe. Cause you know how we, you know how we are. It's interesting to me that they don't even, I'm sure they talk about Eva, but we don't see it. Like, why does Kyle not say I can't turn on Joe? Like he and I have had these deep conversations, but Eva. Yeah. Do you think that Kyle feels like that there is like an opportunity to maybe like take Joe into fire making?
[00:36:03] Is that what he is like? Is that his plan to really get around Joe? I don't know. I mean, like he, I, he seems to think, I mean, Kyle and Camilla both said, if one of us is in the finale, it's a million dollars. I believe that they see a jury that is going to be, I, it's not a crazy thought there. They might believe there's an anti Joe jury out there and the jury often roots for the underdogs. So they might feel like I have enough jury connections so that the people will prefer me to Joe.
[00:36:33] They might feel like, you know, like you see David glowering over there. I mean, Christie was no Joe fan. Like, um, I just don't think it's crazy for any of them. Like Mary, you know, probably has a, uh, you know, could have a better relationship with Kyle than with, with Joe. Like, it's not crazy for Kyle to think like I have the votes. It's possible. He says, uh, that, uh, he doesn't know if he can beat Joe. It's, I think definitely a fair question to ask, but I do think that even the people who are sort of like spicy on the jury,
[00:37:02] I think that like when it's like the finished product and they look at what happened and how they got there, I do feel like that people come around. Like, I think that Joe is an admirable guy where that they might be salty, but are they bitter towards Joe? I bet David is David. Maybe David, maybe because David feels like that. His word was broken. Maybe David has Mary on the jury. And so I think if Camilla's on the jury, I mean like how, you know, you don't need, it doesn't,
[00:37:32] you don't need to like exude like winning this. You just need to get the votes. Yeah. Um, let's talk about Shaheen. Speaking of exuding winning. I think Shaheen had a very interesting episode. Yeah, I agree. Do you want me to elaborate? Yeah. Yeah. I'd love that. Yeah. So I feel like that first of all, Shaheen was not even in the first half of the episode. Uh, or no, he's in like, uh, we didn't see much of Shaheen in the first, like 15 minutes. Uh, and then he was, uh, he talks about how 20 days ago,
[00:38:01] he thought that, uh, he was going to be in this thing. He was overconfident. He had no idea what survivor was, uh, 20 days ago. After the challenge is over, we see Shaheen, uh, singing his song, uh, just win a challenge. Yeah. He can't win a challenge and, uh, is like really down on himself.
[00:38:25] And I think that Shaheen has been as a character so much on the sidelines here in, uh, the back half of the merge. And it does feel like that we've seen Shaheen talking to Mary. We've seen him talking to Mitch at different points. And he says that he thinks he's playing a better game than Joe, but we just don't ever see what he's working on. Yeah.
[00:38:52] I kind of think, and that Shaheen is getting that classic third place at it where, you know, someone who's a really big character in the pre-merge, you know, you look at Ben in survivor, um, 46. You think Shaheen finishes third? I don't, that's one of my theories. I liked your idea that he's out next week. I think that's very possible. Yeah. Because who do you think he would be finishing? Who would be finishing in second place?
[00:39:20] Um, well maybe Shaheen second, but like, you know, in a way that like, I can't see Eva getting more votes than Shaheen. No, but there's a world where like even gets a voter, Shaheen gets a vote, you know, in a way like Heidi was that character too. It's like this character who is like a big character in the pre-merge and then kind of like fades into the background is something that it's like, it's like a now an established edit. You know, you've got Ben in survivor 46. You had Sue for sure in survivor 47. Heidi's, Heidi's another one. Um, you know, who is this character? Like the, the kind of like the third finalist. Right.
[00:39:49] And again, like Heidi got more votes than, than Carolyn did, but, um, Carolyn was obviously like that other big character. I agree with you. I see a world where that is, we've been talking about that. But could Kyle lose to Joe at the final travel council? There certainly is a world where Shaheen is that person who loses to Joe at the final travel council. Yeah. Right. Or, or I'm saying, I'm just saying Shaheen is the third seat. Like Kyle is the person who loses and Shaheen is also there. I would really struggle to see Joe, Shaheen and Kyle all at the final travel council. Yeah. It's just a world. It's just a world.
[00:40:18] I'm, I'm, I think that Eva is, I think Joe and Eva, Eva make a lot of sense as that, as that, as that third seat. And then it being like Joe versus Kyle, um, or, or even Shaheen there. Um, yeah. Um, but we'll, let's, let's stay with Shaheen. I know I want to talk about, uh, Joe and Eva with the final four. Um, so that it just feels like that Joe, uh, I'm sorry, that Kyle and Shaheen are both in this same predicament of that.
[00:40:46] They both feel like, uh, so is this bond towards Joe that Joe is beyond reproach. They cannot go after him. I think that Shaheen described a little bit more as they have all the stuff. It's a lot. Like he didn't describe it as much as like for Kyle, he was like emotionally handcuffed. Shaheen expressed a little bit more about how that, that it was the hardware that on
[00:41:11] the Joe and Eva tandem that was preventing him from touching Joe and Eva. I do think that as we're talking about, like, could Kyle and Camilla make that move at Shaheen? Uh, I think that Shaheen maybe, uh, should be looking in Kyle's direction as Kyle is the person blocking him from getting to that final travel council. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I, I, I mean, there's a world where Kyle's out next. I don't think that's a crazy possibility.
[00:41:39] Um, what would that end up being? Uh, well, so we've seen that the, the drama of next episode is they target Shaheen and maybe it just backfires. You know, maybe they're like, Kyle's the one who's spreading. I probably not. Unless Shaheen gets an advantage or a real idol where that he ends up playing it and then ends up taking Kyle out. I don't know if at six Shaheen will be able to pull together the numbers to be able to, I can't imagine Joe and Eva flipping on Kyle. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I agree.
[00:42:09] It's, it's a long shot. It seems pretty unlikely. Um, yeah. So, but what does Shaheen say? So Shaheen says, I think I'm playing a better game. He had some like cryptic remark at tribal council of like, you know, we are all trying to play our best game as we perceive it. Um, what do you think, what is Shaheen's game in his mind? I think that Shaheen feels like that while Joe and Eva have sort of like frozen people out and have just been like very much focused on their, the four or the strong five.
[00:42:37] I think that Shaheen feels like that. He has been working all of the relationships. We've seen him in the post merge, try to talk to say, and Mitch, uh, that star early on in the game, uh, Mary, like, uh, he tried to cultivate these relationships, but ultimately he didn't end up doing anything with these pieces at the time that he had them. I think he thinks that Camilla is a piece for him.
[00:43:02] And what he doesn't know is that, uh, Camilla is actually a not, not to, uh, you know, I don't mean any shade towards Camilla, but that Camilla rides for Kyle, not for Shaheen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that there's no shade there. I think that's pretty straightforward. Yeah. But I think that because that, that Kyle and Camilla, I think that the best thing that they've done is that they've been able to hide this relationship from Shaheen. Where Shaheen might be looking at this as like, okay, here we go going into the final six or going into the final seven.
[00:43:32] And maybe he thought that I have Mary. Uh, and, and if he did think this, I don't know why he didn't pursue it further. Maybe he thought that if he wins the challenge that, that maybe he was going to try to make a move, but if he thought he had Camilla and Mary and Mitch, uh, maybe this would have been the opportunity to try to take out Kyle. Yeah. Um, yeah. I mean, that's, that, that's a really good point. I mean, um, yeah. But he seems, you know, I think, I think all of them at the top are very content to just kind of like go down the line.
[00:43:59] I mean, if you can have the numbers, it is the right choice. It's what we did in token chains. It's what people have been doing in a lot. Like it's just an old school survivor season in that way. Like there's no reason if you can ride for strong to mix it up. Yeah. And if Shaheen does feel like, Hey, that Kyle is the person, the odd man out here, I'm with Joe and Eva. Those are my original tribe mates. We have the California girls from old loggy. That's our final three. And when we go to the final three, I'm a debate coach. Okay.
[00:44:28] Uh, Joe's not going to out debate me. And I've got relationships with, on the jury, with, with Mary, with, uh, with Mitch, uh, you know, all, all these, uh, people that I'm Camilla is going to be a vote for me. So when push comes to shove, I'm just going to beat Joe when it counts in the final travel council. I think that that might be what Shaheen's plan is. But why do, why do you not attribute that same plan to Kyle? Cause I feel like that's like, that's what I was describing to Kyle. And you're like, no.
[00:44:55] Well, I, I, I, that's not that I don't think that that's what Kyle's plan is. I think that, I think that for both of them, I think it's not going to work. I think that there is a path for Kyle to get Joe and to, uh, to, uh, outmaneuver Joe and Eva and ultimately win the game. I think Shaheen doesn't have that because he doesn't have the relationship. I think Shaheen doesn't have that same path, but I think that that is when, when Shaheen says he's playing a better game than Joe.
[00:45:21] Joe, I think that he thinks that I can see Joe is making mistakes and I'm going to be able to capitalize on them. And, and Kyle is like on the outside looking at Joe is more, Joe and Eva are more loyal to me than they are to Kyle. Yeah. I think that may well be true. Yeah. Um, I think that's a, yeah, that's, that's a good read. That's a very good read. I want to talk about Joe and Eva going into the final four fire making.
[00:45:47] So if Joe or Eva, I would think probably two of the odds on favorites to win immunity at the final four. Do you think that both would just take each other to the final tribal council or do you think that they would get cute with somebody making five? That's a very honorable thing to do to make the fire potentially. Do you know? I think that these guys aren't getting cute. This is like meat and potato survivor. There's no like, how do we game this? It's like, okay, I got you. You got me. We're going. Mm-hmm. Okay. Eva wins final four that she's going to, she's going to take Joe to the final trial council.
[00:46:17] And that Joe is not going to. 100%. 100%. I, I, I would be willing to think that that is the case. Well, even in a scenario where it's like, okay, let's say Eva wins final four fire making. She's like, Joe, I have to take you. You're my person. And it's like, okay, well, uh, then, then who's going to beat Kyle? Uh, like, uh, we got to get, they're not, that's not their attitude. Like that's just not your, you see, you're thinking of like schemer mind, not honor and
[00:46:46] integrity mind, you know, honor and integrity mind. It's like we take each other. Whoever gets there, we'll face them in, you know, a duel or true. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I like honor integrity survivor. Hmm. Well, maybe you need to like look inside yourself to see what that's about. Yeah. Look, I mean, is that more fun for anybody? No, I mean, no, no, of course not. Of course it's not as worse TV. Yeah. Um, but I, I just think it's going to be very straightforward and I think that that's like,
[00:47:15] it's a bummer, but it's like, it's like a season, you know, it's not like this is the only one we get. It's like, it's nice for there to be some variety highs and lows differences. That's what makes life beautiful differences. Okay. All right, Steven, this challenge, uh, congratulations to Camilla who ends up winning a really fun ending to the immunity challenge. I thought this was a really good one this week. Oh yeah. Also, how do you feel? Question for you. How do you feel about Jeff saying shout the word out?
[00:47:44] Because then it's like, I'm sure that's like a rubber banding mechanism where like for the people who have no idea when someone is shouting a word out, suddenly everyone knows what the word is that they're looking for. Do you like that or do you not like that? I, I, I didn't mind it. Uh, Kyle had a funny moment, uh, you know, evocative of like, uh, where, uh, you know, Wendell had the moment in ghost Island where he thought he won the challenge. He stepped back. He didn't say anything. Uh, Kyle thought he won the challenge starts like, what?
[00:48:10] Like sauntering off, uh, feeling like that he won. And then Jeff's like, no, no, that's not, that's not right. Uh, we mentioned the Joe moment where he's spelling. I don't know if he just thought like make any word, uh, make like a, just put the, just assemble the arch. I don't even know if he had thought he had to make words. Um, but then so many different, uh, misspellings of unforgettable. Yeah. Um, really quite, quite very, very, very, very unforgettable.
[00:48:38] Unforgettable is not a survivor word. Um, I think that they probably ended up having like, it needed to be like a, like a 12 letter word or however many words that there are. And I think that they probably there, there was not a variety of like 12 or 13 letter words that were available. Yeah. Let's yeah. All right. This is one for chat GPT. Like what's a better word for this number of letters than unforgettable. Hmm. Yeah.
[00:49:08] That's what you are, Steven. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I feel the same way. It was an unforgettable finish also to this challenge where it's back and forth with Joe and Camilla. And you really, there's a great moment where Jeff's like, oh, is, is Camilla going to do it? She's like, yes. And then her and Joe are neck and neck and Joe puts his last block in and Jeff awards. Joe wins immunity. He's got it. Yeah. Yeah. And then we get, and I look at the word is spelled right.
[00:49:38] But Jeff notices that up the eye is facing the wrong direct, not the letter I, the eye is facing the wrong way. And that Camilla wins immunity. Incredible. Incredible. Yeah. It was a very, it was very, very fun. I did think that, and like, this is his David moment, like a narrow challenge loss. Everyone sees the opportunity. And actually that is why this episode I felt was a little exciting because it seemed like it was going to happen. I felt that there was more like last week was just like no change.
[00:50:08] Like nobody was even entertaining. Like at least we went to tribal council thinking that there could have, that Joe could like up until the points they read the votes that there was a chance of like, oh, okay. I mean, there was three votes for Mary and one vote for Joe. I still, there was in Schrodinger's voting urn. There was still a possibility. The next three votes that came out, we're going to be Joe, Joe, Joe. That was at least a possibility. So that's why I'm not as down about this episode as last week's episode, which was like,
[00:50:38] okay, well, uh, who's it going to be? Is it going to be a Mary or star at tribal council? Well, right. And that's why I thought like, I thought there was a really good chance Joe was going home. Um, and like that's a tense thing. Like, can they get it together? And like, obviously there would have been like a, whoa, they did it if they did it. But there's also like an interesting, whoa, they didn't do it. You know, that's kind of exciting in its own way in terms of how badly they effed up. All right. Okay. Here's what Chad GPT has for us. 13 letter words, theme to survivor.
[00:51:07] Out maneuvering, but with a British spelling. Um, the American. The American. Unforgettable 13 letter word. Did we get from letters? Unforgettable is 13 letters. What else? Um, disappearance. Okay. Backstabbing Lee. Backstabbing Lee is very good. Not this season though. They were like, ah, we're not backstabbing Lee. Like, no, it's survivor 48. We're not doing that. Integrity. Yeah. Immunization. I mean, hey look, that's, I mean, they don't ever really call winning immunity immunization,
[00:51:37] but you know, it's at least akin, but maybe. Underestimate? Too controversial. Yeah. Underestimate. Controversial is very funny. Underestimate, um, is, I think underestimate is good. Yeah. Better than untrustworthy. What is it? Untrustworthy. Untrustworthy. Not this season. Not so much. Owen Knight is really going to hate this segment. Owen Knight really does not like, uh, silly uses of chat CPT for good reasons. Cause it's like, you know, it's got such like an high energy cost.
[00:52:06] So some dumb thing that I just did, like figuring out other fun 13 letter words, you know, it's like, what, what, what costs enjoyment to tens of thousands of people though. Okay. Okay. If tens of thousands of people really didn't enjoy that, then it was, then it was worth it. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That for Camilla to win this challenge, I thought this was a real bounce back episode of Camilla who had also been sort of like in on the sidelines these last couple of weeks on the show. First off, I would have never have picked Camilla to be the winner of this challenge because
[00:52:35] where we last saw this in survivor 46 wingspan, right? And so that, that is like, you feel like, okay, maybe this is not Camilla's challenge, but yeah, that she was able to, I, we saw her figure out the word puzzle first when Kyle needed the hidden immunity idol. And so she's so good at this. I was so happy when she ends up winning, she ends up having to throw it together for the, I believe first ever sushi reward on survivor.
[00:53:03] I want to take on sushi in a tropical environment. Not like, uh, I mean so many things it's like, like not for anything. And listen, I love, uh, you know, a good sushi. Okay. But you know, when that we're at the, I remember when the final seven reward used to mean something instead you're on survivor. Here's your reward. Rice and fish. Yeah. Yeah. We have that at home.
[00:53:29] I need to take back the no sushi on a raw and in a tropical environment statement, but sushi without refrigeration is another story. Cause who knows how long this sushi has been sitting around in like the heat. Yeah. It's not like the fish just like flops up and they give you the piece. It's like, this is hours later. They got production. They got the cameras. Yeah. I'm sure they do. Like they do a decent job of refrigerating everything. I'm sure they figured it out. It's millions and millions of dollars spent on this show.
[00:53:55] I'm sure they figured out sushi, but I'm just saying like, uh, listen, chicken and waffles was novel, but I feel like that we're just trying to come up with new stuff that we haven't done before. And sushi is probably not a top 100 survivor reward. Yeah. I don't know. In your time, I guess people like, uh, clamored for like going out for sushi maybe. Oh yeah. And like, just like the, I think the flavors, you know, it's like, it's not like just like
[00:54:22] another clam or whatever, you know, it's like the, the, the, the, the richness of the soy sauce, you know, you're making the case for it or against it. Oh yeah. I think I would have liked sushi to be honest with you. Um, cause like, it's like, it's, you know, delicious and it's like filling, but it's also got protein. And I don't know. I mean, like I'm also, I do think that they, um, try to base the food rewards based around what the contestants are talking about. Like we definitely found that to be the case in Cambodia.
[00:54:49] Like when we were talking about things, you know, cause like the, the, the camp chatter will kind of like fixate on a few things that people are like really excited about. And then like magically those things will be the rewards in a way that I think is like both fun for the contestants and also just like motivating with the contestants. Um, so my guess is they were talking about sushi a lot. What'd you think about Camilla's picks here? Uh, she goes with number one pick Mitch, Mitch, who never gets to eat, you know, but, but so you have to take Mitch on every single reward. Yeah.
[00:55:19] Mitch never eats. Therefore we always pick Mitch. What about Mary? Yeah. Uh, no, well, Mary's going home and she's eating all the coconuts. So that would be for, you know, bad moves to take Mary. Uh, and then Eva gets to go on the reward, which I kind of liked that. It's sort of like, okay, we're going to lull her into false sense of security. I thought that was a great call, you know, keep her just feeling like, Oh, you're part of the power group and I'm trying to curry favor with you and everything's going fine. And it sure seemed like she had a false sense of security based on, you know, to your point, the fact that she mentioned that she was not going to play her idol. Yeah.
[00:55:48] I just, and I don't mean to keep harping on this, but I just feel like that there seems like that there are that Joe and Eva. Yes. They, they are really, they're doing some things well, but it seems like that they are, there, there are so many holes in their game that seem like that they are open to being vulnerable. There are giant gaping exhaust ports on the Death Star that it feels like that the players like could hit and are just choosing not to.
[00:56:18] Let me say what Joe is doing well though. Cause it's not just like passive Joe. I mean, we see him this episode. He goes up to Kyle, you know, how you feeling? How you feeling about the four? Everything good. Good. My guess is Joe checks in a lot with his Alliance. You know, I think he is constantly being like, Hey, how are you? Everything good. And he's an intimidating presence. Yeah. Yeah. Those eyes. My gosh, he's so intense when he stares at you. Yeah. So look that we've, so we've, but we, I feel like we've talked about the things that
[00:56:44] they are doing well and that they really like, this is like an, this is not a game relationship. This is an emotional relationship. Joe like makes this like very clear with his allies, but that's good old school strategy. You know, that is what survivor used to be. You know, that's what Kim was so great at. You know, like those were the skills that you needed to make a, like to build a strong alliance. And we haven't seen a lot of strong alliances that have stuck together till the end. I don't feel like that that's quite the Kim Spradlin game.
[00:57:13] I think that, that Kim was beloved. And I think that, but I don't know if it was necessarily like that. It was, uh, that you were emotionally handcuffed to Kim. Like, I think that Kim was that people that she was like the queen that the, that her subjects just love so much. They all wanted to stay in her good graces. Well, people weren't aware as much back then of that sense of like, I should make a move. I have to make a move, you know? And that's where I think the handcuffs more.
[00:57:42] It's like, I feel like Joe's game is similar to Kim's in that way where like people like want to stay in his good graces. People really respect him. People really like him. People trust him. People feel bonded to him. And then I think this new era game is where you get that sense of like, of handcuffs where I'm supposed to be doing something else, but I don't want to. And now I'm like talking myself into reasons why I shouldn't do that thing. Yeah.
[00:58:07] All right, Steven, are you ready to give out your accolades for this episode? No, this is going to be what I'm punting on and asking you about. I've got some thoughts, I guess. I'll give you 10 seconds to think about it. I'm ready. Not a broken award that rewards losers for losing. It's the coveted fishy award.
[00:58:36] Okay, Steven, I do think this is a tough week for the fishy. Yeah. I mean, the obvious answer would just be to give it to Joe because again, everybody talks about Joe and because of these emotional relationships he's built and fostered and this kind of just like honor and integrity talk that has sort of dominated this season. Yeah. I think that, you know, you could be like, well, they should have voted for him and they didn't. So kudos to them. Yeah. Or kudos to him.
[00:59:05] I think there's a world where you give it to, oh, this is tricky. I think this might be the toughest one of the season. I mean, Joe is really the only person. Can I make a case for somebody? I got one other. Let me get, let me get this other. David is my other because a, the standing up is a real game changer. I bet there's going to be a lot more action, a lot more standing and sitting on tribal.
[00:59:30] And I do think David's talk of honor and integrity is still has a lasting effect. I think that is like affecting the tenor of the season still, even like past his being booted and in a way that is like really constraining a lot of these players. Now you tell me what yours is. I would make a case for Camilla who goes on and wins immunity in this episode, which is great, but that's not the real reason why I think that she deserves the fishy award.
[01:00:00] Is that I think that she is the player who most improved her position in this episode, where I feel like that she was very close towards the bottom, maybe not on the Mary level, but I feel like that she played her way back into being Kyle's number one. I think that she's playing a lot of the camp life really perfectly where even though she's trying to work with Mary on the side, she's throwing Mary under the bus in terms of how she's eating the coconuts.
[01:00:29] She's taking Eva with her onto the reward. So I think that Camilla could potentially have set herself up to maybe if where I think this is going, where they squeeze Shaheen out, where now I think that Camilla might be squeezing her way into the final four. I don't know. I mean, Camilla had a plan and it failed. That's not fishy worthy. It was trying to do something and didn't succeed. It's not. Ultimately, it is your fault. It's ultimately always your fault.
[01:00:57] If you can't get it together, then in some capacity, it's your fault. Like if you fail to do the thing you're trying to do, then it is your fault, right? Like obviously, like maybe it's bad luck that she was on this season with these people who have different, you know, blah, blah, blah. But like if we're ascribing any kind of agency to a survivor player beyond luck, then like being unable to execute your plan is your fault. And we don't know why the plan didn't happen. Uh, I mean, and we, and we can ultimately, uh, you know, close with that in terms of like why it didn't happen.
[01:01:27] But I feel like that, you know, Camilla like brings all this stuff to Kyle. Like she needs Kyle to turn his key and he won't do it. And maybe he's like, uh, okay, I'll tell you about my secret job. I'll tell you. Okay. Maybe tomorrow we'll do it. But you know, I can only ascribe so much fault to her for she's bringing the move to the person who needs to make the move and he won't do it. But then she's not convincing him, you know, like if she can't convince him, that's partially
[01:01:56] on her, right? Like if you are the strategic mover of the episode, which is what the fish is supposed to, you know, reward, then like you should be the person who makes it happen. It was a week that there was no strategic movement. Maybe she should take it. I mean, she should, you know, at some point does she have to say, all right, Kyle, uh, you know, enough of you, I'm dumping you. I'm going, Hey, Shaheen, me, you, Mary, Mitch, let's vote out Kyle. That would be a fishy worthy move.
[01:02:24] But like saying you have a plan and not doing the plan is not strategic. It's not that she like procrastinated doing the plan. Kyle won't do it. But she also could not convince Kyle. Like if you are the whole point of being like a super strategist is like you get people to do your plans even in spite of the fact that they are being recalcitrant. But the problem is that she is the strategy person and Kyle is supposed to be the person
[01:02:53] who works on the social relationships. The problem is that she doesn't have a Kyle to go work on Kyle. Anybody can come up with an idea. I watching them can come up with an idea, but I can't make it happen. Like I see a lot of things that I would think could happen on this season of survivor, but if you can't pull it off, what use are you? Okay. That's the situation. So I don't know. So rather than Camilla, you're giving the fishy to the guy who got voted out of the game three weeks ago.
[01:03:23] Well, he did something. He meant to stand up and he stood up. All right. I'm here for the meme. Let's go. Fishy for David. Fishy for David or fishy for Joe. That's the real question. Although I feel like, uh, I mean, I just like, I hear you about Camilla. I do. And I want my heart wants to give it to Camilla, but like she didn't actually do her move. And David did complete the stand.
[01:03:54] He set a lead at a low bar and he surmounted it. She came up short. Yeah. Okay. All right. David for David for standing up. Can't wait to see the fan cam. It'll be iconic. All right. Okay. Steven, anything else that you have for survivor 48? No. Um, I know. No, that's it. That's it. All right. Well, let me tell you about what else is coming up.
[01:04:23] Of course, I will be live on Friday. Thank you to Marianne for filling in for me on the survivor Q and a last week. I was in New York city. I got to see Steven fish back. We had a wonderful dinner. It was wonderful. That first, last weekend. First time I saw Steven fish back in person since, uh, 2022. Since the, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Since your life. Yeah. I saw Steven in, uh, his stomping grounds of Washington DC.
[01:04:53] Yeah. We had a lovely, uh, lunch. Dinner. Oh, what are you talking about? In DC? In DC. Yeah. I think we had just coffee. Coffee. All right. Maybe a pastry. I don't think I ate anything. I think it was just coffee. Uh, but we had a wonderful dinner, uh, this past weekend. Uh, and, uh, great to see you in person. Yeah. It really, it really, um, uh, I'm really torn about this fishy thing, Rob. Also, cause I know I'm going to get flamed for it. You know? Like part of me thinks like. The people will look.
[01:05:23] It'll, it'll like, uh, it'll be fine. I don't know. I mean, I do think like, I mean, Camilla's trying, you know, she is trying. She is trying, but we can't go back and undo like. Why? Why not? It's a, it's a silly thing. It's a silly thing. I think you're right though. Also just for like. Uh. Okay. I'm going to give it to Camilla. I think you're right. Walk it back. Yeah. Okay. Is it two fishies? Is it two fishies?
[01:05:52] So many fishies this week. Yes. It was such a strategic episode. But I do think, I mean, probably Camilla played the most strategic episode. David's funnier. David is funnier. It's funnier. But Camilla did probably have the most strategic episode. You know, the, the reward choices were, were good and made sense. The Eva thing made sense. Um, you know, she knows she's doing the right thing. You know, she got, you're right that she like cemented Kyle. She kind of pulled Kyle over to her side and that might actually be decisive. Right?
[01:06:22] Like, even though it didn't pay off this week, we do have this confession. I was emotional from Kyle of, you know, I was torn between Camilla and Joe. Now I'm team Camilla. And that really did seem to be because of Camilla. She kind of rolled it back in this week. Last week, he was really considering more going with the four. And this week, he kind of like woke up. And she really established herself on the right side of food etiquette, of coconut etiquette, you know, and that's probably, but I do think there's probably something to that, you know, where it's like, if you can, um, you know, show how great you're being around camp,
[01:06:50] that sort of like increases your status among, among the group. So even though she wasn't able to pull off this big blind side, she did have a lot of like small moves that I guess were better than standing up. Okay. Yeah. All right. Everybody, please stand for Camilla now, winner of the Fishery Award. Yeah. She is doing like the teacher's pet game of like, uh, like, oh, do you see Mary is eating another coconut? She doesn't care about Mary eating coconuts. Yeah. And I do think this is the right choice, Rob.
[01:07:18] I, it took me a minute because I thought it was so funny with the David thing, but I do think this is the right choice. And you know, it's a, it's a week episode and it honestly, like she did some things. She did some little things. Okay. All right. So I will be back on Friday for the Q and a, uh, patrons can call in 3 PM Eastern robinswebsite.com slash patron. Of course, survivor is better when you have a tribe and we've got the best one around
[01:07:45] over robinswebsite.com slash patron. Of course, you can also see things like a collection of all of my post-season interviews. And I also Josh Wiggler and I starved the wand off, uh, that we have gone through and are watching survivor heroes versus villains. A double episode aired, uh, 15 years ago this week as spoiler alert, Candace and Danielle went home in one episode. Wow. Big episode.
[01:08:13] You could watch our reaction to the wand off for season 48. Lots of fun. I don't know if you, uh, caught any of the wand off this week, Stephen, but great creative entries from our listeners, including, uh, from the creator of the fishy theme song, Eric James Barger. Wow. Um, excited to listen to that. Okay. Rob, I still remember your exit interview with Danielle, um, in heroes versus villains.
[01:08:41] It was like a real, oh, it was very memorable. First of all, I was at the equinox on, um, on union square. So I was, you know, getting swole. So that was memorable for me, but also, you know, I remember Danielle, she was like explaining how she was the mastermind of that season. She was like, and then I controlled Russell and here's what I was doing with poverty. And this is my plan with the heroes. And it just was really like, everyone really is. And now I feel like that was really where it was like so clear to me. Like everyone really is the hero of their own story.
[01:09:10] I feel like that was kind of like where that was the most clearly articulated for me. Like, you know, from Danielle's point of view, she was running the game until it got upended for her. Um, and it was not a story we were seeing on television, but like from everyone's perspective out there, they really are. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. It's probably how we all go through life. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And then occasionally you see your own tiny insignificance in the vast churn of the universe. And, um, you take some kind of pill for that.
[01:09:38] Do you think that there's, that is an issue with reality TV where I think that many of us may have like main character syndrome, where we all feel like in the movie of our lives, we are all the main character, but sometimes people go on one of these, these TV shows, but then it's presented like they're a side character. That must be something that is very difficult to cope with. Yeah.
[01:10:04] Well, I do think that is, I mean, that was sort of my, um, you know, my last blog about Cerebro Cambodia was like getting voted out is like you getting shunted immediately from like recognizing that you are the main character or think, believing you are the main character to recognizing, oh, wow, I'm just like a side character. Like I was a complication for these other characters, you know? And you really see that very austere, uh, very starkly in that, in that, um, yeah. Yeah. In that moment. It is a very tough thing. Yeah. Yeah. Really. Um, yeah.
[01:10:33] Then also we had this week, the genius game. UK is a rolling along as the Wurtenberger bros are here to talk about every single episode. Our friend Dwight Moore joined Zach and Corey to talk about episode three of the genius game over in the, we know the genius podcast feed.
[01:10:55] And then all night long, we've been chatting it up with the glitterati over on chat BCC. Join us for free. Skip the wait list. Go to robinswebs.com slash VIP chat for that on chat BCC. Steven, anything fun coming up for you? No. I mean, get, stay in touch with all the cool Steven Fishback related things on. Where can we go for that?
[01:11:23] Stevenfishback.com, uh, S T P H E N F I S H B A C H.com. Um, Rob, I feel bad that I mentioned, I said like you take a pill for that when you're, you know, you see your own cosmic insignificance. I was referring to, you know, I didn't want, well, there's kids who listen to this podcast. I didn't want them to think that it was some sort of endorsement of, you know, a crazy lifestyle. You know, I was just talking about getting the, the, you know, some, the, the, the, the useful psychiatric drugs that can help modulate. Thank you for cleaning that up.
[01:11:51] I don't think that anybody took your, uh, words the wrong way. Well, I'm really spiraling now after the whole, like David, uh, you know, David Camilla. It's like everything I say, I'm like, is that okay? Everything is, everything you say is wonderful. The listeners, I mean, how long have we been doing this? Is what year 13 of the survivor? Know it all. Wow. And this is 13. It's an unlucky number. It's where it all goes wrong.
[01:12:16] Have I ever like truly like taken you to task for something that you've said in 13 years? Probably. I don't ever remember you being dragged through the Twitter streets. That happens all the time. I assume. Um, I just don't check Twitter now. I think it happens more for things you tweet than things you say on this podcast. Yeah. Maybe so. Yeah. Um, I can't believe here. Yeah. Right. The context. Right. Yeah. Context. Um, I can't believe we've got over an hour on this.
[01:12:45] I think this might be the longest, uh, know-it-alls of the season. And it's like, I thought we were going to be lucky to get 30 minutes on that. No, we did a great job. So thank you all so much for listening. I love to read your comments after the episode on Thursday morning. So thank you so much for joining us. Of course, if you haven't done so yet, what are you waiting for to hit the subscribe button? If you're watching us here on video and if you're not go to watch RHAP.com. I've got a busy Thursday coming up to talk about all this and everything else going on
[01:13:14] over on RHAP. Thank you for joining us. Take care of a good one. Bye. Bye.