This week, Rob and Stephen discuss Survivor 47 episode 7.[00:00:00] Wusstest du, dass zehntausende deutsche Unternehmen bereits Shopify nutzen? Von innovativen Start-ups bis hin zu Familienunternehmen mit langer Tradition? Die Commerce-Plattform Shopify revolutioniert Millionen von Unternehmen weltweit. Mit Shopify kannst du Produkte über beliebige Kanäle verkaufen – ob persönliches POS-System oder umfassende E-Commerce-Plattform. Auch Social Media und Marktplätze wie Facebook, Instagram und Ebay werden unterstützt.
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[00:01:03] The smartest guys around Are about to break it down Like they've won The game a million times
[00:01:15] Well, actually, they didn't really win the game At all
[00:01:21] Survive the know-it-all
[00:01:23] I've been Steven here After Episode 7
[00:01:50] Steven, how are you?
[00:01:51] Rob, this is the craziest thing I just got this like 20 minutes ago in my office
[00:01:57] Someone came and handed me this paper
[00:01:59] And it's safety without podcasting
[00:02:03] So I'm gonna be leaving
[00:02:04] No! You can leave now!
[00:02:05] I'm out! Sorry Rob! Sorry!
[00:02:06] Come back! Come back!
[00:02:08] You're on your own
[00:02:10] Uh, okay
[00:02:11] Um, this is uh
[00:02:15] No, I was just kidding Rob! I'm here! I'm here! I'm here! I'm here!
[00:02:21] Shoot! I meant today to do a stay in costume I forgot
[00:02:23] Yes! Okay, alright
[00:02:25] What's your costume for Halloween?
[00:02:26] How are we?
[00:02:27] I put a little, there's something a little orange in it and I didn't do a costume
[00:02:31] No, but I mean like tonight, are you going to trick or treating with the family?
[00:02:33] Yeah, we're gonna go trick or treating
[00:02:34] Yeah, trick or treating here
[00:02:35] And this is like a regional thing
[00:02:37] Like when I was a kid in New York
[00:02:38] Uh, used to go trick or treating after school
[00:02:40] Different parts of the country? No
[00:02:42] You go trick or treating on a different day, different time
[00:02:45] Yeah, so no trick or treating here until after 6 o'clock
[00:02:50] Huh! Okay
[00:02:50] Yeah, we're going about that time, 530
[00:02:53] Yeah, so nice day here
[00:02:54] What's the family door has? Do you guys have a
[00:02:56] Uh, we've got a Iron Man
[00:02:57] Uh, we've got a Wolverine
[00:03:00] My son wanted to be Deadpool
[00:03:01] We said that's a little, you can't be Deadpool
[00:03:04] Why?
[00:03:05] Why?
[00:03:05] Deadpool is a little R-rated
[00:03:07] Oh, okay
[00:03:08] But he wouldn't be R-rated playing Deadpool
[00:03:10] Yeah, but I think that's not inappropriate
[00:03:12] Okay
[00:03:12] You know, uh, and then, uh, Nicole and I are gonna be some Price is Right contestants
[00:03:17] Oh, that's funny
[00:03:18] Yeah, I'm not like you, I don't want face paint
[00:03:21] I don't want like a wig or anything like that
[00:03:24] So, uh, I said, okay, keep it simple
[00:03:26] You know me
[00:03:26] Keep it simple
[00:03:27] I love to go
[00:03:29] I actually used to go, but he's in there
[00:03:31] Yeah
[00:03:31] We're going as the Paw Patrol
[00:03:33] Oh, which, who are you?
[00:03:35] Yeah, well, so I'm gonna be Chase
[00:03:36] Oh, you're on the case
[00:03:37] Yeah, I'm on the case
[00:03:38] Uh, Margo, my older daughter is Skye
[00:03:40] Yeah
[00:03:40] And, um, my younger daughter Prue will be, uh, Marshall
[00:03:44] Oh, Marshall
[00:03:45] No, Marshall
[00:03:45] No, Avalanche, it's like extended
[00:03:47] Extended
[00:03:47] Well, you know, the Paw Patrol
[00:03:49] They don't do a great job with, uh, very, very inclusive of a lot of the, uh, the female dogs
[00:03:54] And I'm not gonna say that
[00:03:55] Yeah, very few
[00:03:55] It's a two o'clock podcast
[00:03:57] I'm not gonna call them, uh, what, you know, I've, I've heard them described as
[00:04:01] It's true
[00:04:02] It's true that they, they, the two, like, add-ons are Liberty and Avalanche
[00:04:05] But, um,
[00:04:06] Oh, I didn't know about Liberty
[00:04:07] Liberty is another add-on since my kids were, uh, young
[00:04:09] Yeah, yeah, no, she's, she's like a big city dog
[00:04:12] Mm-hmm
[00:04:12] Um, and then, uh, and, uh, my, my wife will be Ryder, the leader of the team
[00:04:19] Ryder, okay
[00:04:20] Oh, so we're really, like
[00:04:21] Very gender-bending, uh, all over the place
[00:04:24] Mm-hmm
[00:04:24] Well, we hadn't really, it was hard to find adult costumes for the Paw Patrol
[00:04:28] Yeah
[00:04:28] There's only, like, two
[00:04:29] There's, like, Chase, and there's, like, Skye, but my daughter was already Skye
[00:04:31] Mm-hmm
[00:04:32] So, challenging
[00:04:32] No rubble
[00:04:34] They don't have an adult rubble
[00:04:35] We would've done the adult rubble
[00:04:36] Yeah
[00:04:37] All right
[00:04:38] I think my wife was happy that she just has to wear a vest
[00:04:40] She wears a vest and she's like, I'm Ryder
[00:04:41] Mm-hmm
[00:04:42] Okay, all right
[00:04:43] So, we, uh, talked about the, uh, civic servant dogs
[00:04:49] So, cross that off the list
[00:04:51] Yep
[00:04:51] And then, a lot more, uh, shout-out to my dogs at the crib
[00:04:54] Yeah, and we got a lot more to break down here today
[00:04:56] Hard-hitting analysis coming to you from, uh, the survivor know-it-alls
[00:05:01] Where, last night, Steven, we saw the tribes divided once again
[00:05:05] I, I think this is so interesting
[00:05:07] This is three episodes in a row that we get everybody together in a, in a group
[00:05:12] And then we say, okay, now, split up
[00:05:14] Yeah
[00:05:15] It's like a Scooby-Doo episode every week
[00:05:16] All right, hey, I got an idea, let's split up again
[00:05:20] Yeah, it was pretty annoying, I have to say
[00:05:22] And we'll, we'll talk more about the whole, like, twists versus twists
[00:05:24] Yeah
[00:05:24] As the show goes on
[00:05:26] But, I will say, like, the start of the episode made it so compelling
[00:05:29] To see people kind of, like, assembling their groups
[00:05:31] Like, Andy approaches Saul, and he brings in Genevieve
[00:05:35] And then you also have, like, the women talking about, like, their, the possibility of women's alliance
[00:05:39] At this point, it feels a little bit like a tease
[00:05:41] It's the delicate dance
[00:05:44] They're like
[00:05:44] It's weird that we're flirting with the merge
[00:05:47] Yeah
[00:05:48] It's like, we're gonna tease you with it
[00:05:50] But not yet
[00:05:52] Not yet
[00:05:52] Not yet
[00:05:52] And like, and then, and then you're like, okay
[00:05:54] I can't wait to see these tribal dynamics play out
[00:05:57] Like, everyone's kind of, like, getting their, like, which, which, like, network of, of connections is gonna, you know, win the day
[00:06:04] And then it turns out to just be this sort of, like, randomness upon randomness
[00:06:07] Yeah
[00:06:07] Yeah
[00:06:09] Teeny referred to eating the men as part of her strategy
[00:06:14] And I wanted to know, are they learning their strategy from Marianne O'Ketch?
[00:06:47] Oh, okay
[00:06:48] And then, I'll give you some good insight about that
[00:06:50] But, Stephen, I guess, let me start with, you had a semi-viral tweet
[00:06:55] Oh, which one?
[00:06:57] Yes, okay
[00:06:57] Wow, what a humble brag
[00:06:58] Okay
[00:07:00] So, this tweet you posted, and I was interested to see, because I looked at it
[00:07:05] I don't follow the metrics, Rob
[00:07:06] I'm just putting the pure stuff up
[00:07:08] Well, you had over a hundred comments on a tweet
[00:07:09] Yeah
[00:07:10] Whereas, like, I thought, I had a great tweet last night
[00:07:13] And there's like
[00:07:14] Oh, no, you're looking great
[00:07:15] You're always getting, like, lots of retweets
[00:07:16] You know, by the big brother
[00:07:17] Not a lot of comments, like I like
[00:07:19] Yeah
[00:07:19] But I guess you opened up a discussion
[00:07:20] Yeah
[00:07:21] And so, this was the tweet, the question you asked
[00:07:24] Was last night's Survivor a thrilling example of how the game's twists can have heartbreaking payoff
[00:07:30] Or, yet more proof, that modern Survivor's advantage-heavy randomness saps the strategic essence of the series
[00:07:38] Please sound off so I can steal your ideas for the know-it-alls
[00:07:42] Now, you did not do a good job stealing the ideas
[00:07:44] Not yet, I haven't had a chance
[00:07:46] You're calling me out before I can steal people's ideas
[00:07:49] Yeah, okay
[00:07:50] So, I think this is a good place to start our discussion about the twists and how they affected things
[00:07:59] Because, I guess, I'll open the discussion of that
[00:08:04] I thought that it was so poetic and kind of beautiful
[00:08:08] Like, yes, you could say that Tiana got split-screwed
[00:08:12] But, I mean, it would have been a travesty if Rachel went home in this episode
[00:08:17] With all due respect to Tiana, who seems like a wonderful person
[00:08:21] But this was a little bit...
[00:08:23] Akiva, I watched a movie, a spooky movie called Final Destination
[00:08:27] And this was a little bit like Tiana was on the ill-fated plane
[00:08:31] And then she got to the merge and got off the plane
[00:08:34] Yeah
[00:08:35] And it was like, you can't cheat death
[00:08:37] And Destiny caught up with Tiana
[00:08:40] She was probably going to be the next person voted out of Tuku
[00:08:44] And somehow, the survivor gods conspired to give us this tribal council
[00:08:49] Where the entire Tuku tribe has a pre-merged tribal...
[00:08:53] All these other tribes went to two tribal councils before the merge
[00:08:56] Tuku ends up going to their second tribal council
[00:08:59] That's a really good point
[00:09:01] But it comes after the merge
[00:09:02] Isn't that interesting?
[00:09:02] Everything needs to be in balance
[00:09:03] Yeah, that is really good
[00:09:04] And Final Destination is a great parallel to it
[00:09:07] You know, like, that was really well said, Rob
[00:09:09] That is interesting
[00:09:10] Yeah
[00:09:11] Yeah
[00:09:12] I did...
[00:09:13] And it's true, you know
[00:09:16] Rachel would have been horrifically swap-screwed by that twist
[00:09:19] It would have been very frustrating
[00:09:20] I don't like this at all
[00:09:21] I mean, you know, I was mad when Matt Blankenship got voted out in season 43?
[00:09:25] Mm-hmm
[00:09:26] Four
[00:09:28] 44
[00:09:28] 44, thank you
[00:09:29] Yeah
[00:09:29] I can't put the numbers, I still can't
[00:09:31] Jam Jam season
[00:09:32] When season of Matt Blankenship
[00:09:33] It was Jam Jam that survived
[00:09:35] That's right
[00:09:36] But it was still a frustrating thing
[00:09:38] Where he was in this like
[00:09:38] Both of those guys were in these great positions in the game
[00:09:42] You know, they had their sort of like networks of alliances
[00:09:44] Nobody was targeting them
[00:09:45] Then they just get this extremely unfortunate like roll of the dice
[00:09:48] And like all of the stuff they had been working towards for the past, you know, three days
[00:09:52] Or however many days it's been
[00:09:53] A new era survivor
[00:09:55] Is out the window
[00:09:57] And they're just like screwed by the swap
[00:09:58] Yeah
[00:09:59] So it was nice to see Rachel escape
[00:10:02] And it is true that in this situation Tiana was probably the one going home
[00:10:06] I guess I didn't like the sense that like she couldn't do anything about it
[00:10:09] You know, like she didn't have time to like work
[00:10:12] And maybe that work would have gone led to nothing, right?
[00:10:14] But the fact that she had, you know, five minutes at tribal games
[00:10:18] Instead of a day of actually knowing the stakes of the situation she was in
[00:10:21] It just kind of felt like, eh, like random and haphazard
[00:10:23] Like why do this when all we as the fandom want to see are those 12 players
[00:10:28] Like working against each other and together with each other to assemble their alliances
[00:10:31] Like why do this?
[00:10:33] And we can have
[00:10:34] On the other hand
[00:10:34] Yes, okay, go ahead
[00:10:35] It was very compelling
[00:10:36] Like it was like really tense, compelling television
[00:10:38] I didn't really have so much of an issue with this
[00:10:41] I mean, I do feel like that we could get into a philosophical discussion
[00:10:44] Is this what survivor should be?
[00:10:47] But you know, Jeff talked about on the on fire podcast
[00:10:49] About how they really do love this idea of the random draw
[00:10:54] And how, you know, you could be feeling like you've got everything set up
[00:10:58] And circumstances could break away where you ultimately get into put into a bad position
[00:11:04] Now for Tiana, I feel like that
[00:11:07] Why is that good?
[00:11:07] Is that the positive for Jeff?
[00:11:09] Like to me that seems like exactly the things you should be avoiding against
[00:11:12] That there were there were like a lot of it wasn't like
[00:11:15] Okay, everybody stick your hand in a bag
[00:11:16] Tiana pulled out a rock and then she went home
[00:11:19] I think that you know, there had been what?
[00:11:21] 14 15 days of gameplay leading up to this point
[00:11:24] And Tiana made mistakes along the way
[00:11:26] And I'm sure David Bloomberg will chronicle them all this weekend with Jessica Lewis
[00:11:30] But leading up to this point, I think that there were a lot of outs for Tiana
[00:11:34] In terms of like things that could have had could have happened
[00:11:38] Before that time and even including like winning the immunity challenge
[00:11:43] Or you know having more allies in her
[00:11:46] This was like had Rachel been in this spot
[00:11:49] Like what is Rachel supposed to do?
[00:11:50] She doesn't even know these people
[00:11:51] But Tiana had been in the in the game for two weeks with these people
[00:11:55] And you know there was nothing that she could do potentially to crack this alliance
[00:12:01] But it wasn't like that these were strangers
[00:12:03] But she did the thing she needed to do which was survive to the merge
[00:12:06] Right like in classically survivor like hey I made it to the merge
[00:12:09] Now I like whatever damage I've done on my original tribe
[00:12:12] Now I can make new like new groups and new alliances
[00:12:14] And like the fact that you're just like shunted back
[00:12:17] Didn't make enough of an impression on Saul
[00:12:20] That there was this deus ex machina element
[00:12:22] Where that you know had she been able to impress upon Saul
[00:12:26] That I was going to be the person that like really help help me out
[00:12:30] Send me out send me home
[00:12:32] I'm interested if she had accurately read her
[00:12:34] Her position correctly at Tuku
[00:12:38] Then I think she could have like like you know let's all know
[00:12:42] Hey, I'm at the bottom here and Saul would have seen
[00:12:44] You know if I send out Rachel my friend Tiana is going to go home
[00:12:47] Cause Tiana should have known that you know her fate in the game
[00:12:50] Would be determined by this like random twist
[00:12:52] And then this disadvantage is going to be in the game
[00:12:53] That nobody's ever seen before
[00:12:54] Like why did Tiana not play it but like plan for that
[00:12:57] Like so stupid
[00:12:58] Steven somebody has to go home
[00:13:00] That you know like it was it wasn't a great you know thing for Tiana
[00:13:06] But it wasn't like a travesty of justice
[00:13:09] The only thing I the thing I don't like the most
[00:13:11] I mean first of all like I just generally I don't like the split
[00:13:14] The split tribes you know
[00:13:15] We all want only one person went out
[00:13:19] True but you know we want to see the dynamics play out
[00:13:22] And like the dynamics are really interesting and they're showing us
[00:13:25] They're interesting I want to see that play out
[00:13:26] I did enjoy the episode so like I can't
[00:13:29] Like I wasn't like bored you know I was like
[00:13:30] And I was like moved by what happened to Tiana
[00:13:32] Like I had an emotional reaction so in that respect like I felt like
[00:13:35] It enriched my life in the sense that like intense emotional reactions
[00:13:38] You know are a great enriching part of our human experience
[00:13:41] But I there was like it wasn't like Rachel got the advantage
[00:13:47] It was like this thing that like fell out of the sky
[00:13:49] It's exactly what you said you know it was this thing that nobody had seen before
[00:13:54] That's like literally like Saul picks up because it's an earn right next to him on reward
[00:13:58] He gives it to like the one person he reasonably going to give it to
[00:14:01] I mean he's not come on he's not going to give this like of course he's going to give it to the one
[00:14:05] There wasn't that much decision making it's not like he had some like
[00:14:08] Yeah
[00:14:08] It's just going to be good or bad for Saul we have no idea Saul has no idea
[00:14:12] He was like ah this will be fun
[00:14:13] Yeah I mean and it makes sense you want them to turn on each other in this like heightened moment
[00:14:18] Like that's a good move generally so he made the right choice
[00:14:21] But it wasn't like a tricky choice you know I feel like Heidi had more like you know
[00:14:25] When she kind of was in the
[00:14:27] And the fact that Saul got to do it secretly which was obviously very fun television
[00:14:31] But it was like this like superpower that like Rachel got out of nowhere
[00:14:35] If Rachel had played an idol like you know which is something that the players know about
[00:14:39] Or even the shot in the dark that they know about
[00:14:41] And then suddenly they have to scramble
[00:14:43] It's like okay like I came into this situation with information that I could prepare for to make an informed decision
[00:14:49] Like some like magic arrow being shot from out of the sky and like piercing Tiana in the heart like that's not something you can prepare for
[00:14:56] But I don't think that's what happened you know she sort of like she dodged a bullet
[00:15:00] That she thought she got to the merge
[00:15:02] It's like okay good and honestly I don't think she ever was accurately aware of what her position was at Tuku
[00:15:10] You know she sort of dodged a bullet in the fact that they you know have this merge earlier in the game in the you know in the new era
[00:15:17] So she sort of like she got lucky there and she got unlucky here
[00:15:21] I mean I believe it was Jerry Manthe who said whoever said survivor is fair
[00:15:26] And it's not and people get bad breaks and I think you have to just be able to you know, okay
[00:15:31] These are I've got delta a very bad hand here and I do not you know have the positioning to recover from this
[00:15:39] Yeah, I mean I actually think I was more annoyed when matt blank and chip went out because
[00:15:43] It seemed like he was in a really better spot and like it was it just felt like there's like random unfair thing happened to him and like he didn't I mean
[00:15:51] With him there was always the whole thing where he didn't even have his bag and so he couldn't like play his he didn't have his bag
[00:15:56] And he had a very public relationship with franny that people want to break up well that but that you can blame him for but
[00:16:03] Like some of the other stuff felt like a little more random was was um not his fault, but like it that's just in general, you know
[00:16:10] And we're still like arguing the same central argument, right?
[00:16:13] Which is that like survivor as it at its inception was this game where you kind of could make
[00:16:18] Plans and you could try to play what kim spradlin called like a beautiful strategic game, you know
[00:16:23] I don't know if she said that in like in the in the show or like in an exit, but like or
[00:16:27] That's something that really a letter to you. Yeah
[00:16:30] No, she was talking about how she wanted to play like a beautiful strategic game and that's just not what it is anymore
[00:16:35] Right. There's a lot more randomness and like it's just like obviously there's a balance the randomness does add drama
[00:16:40] um, but it would have been nice to have like the drama of these
[00:16:44] Actual strategic relationships pay off just once. Yeah
[00:16:48] I mean what what relationship did you want to see pay off?
[00:16:52] Just what was all these things that were happening, you know, like
[00:16:55] Well, could the women's alliance like pull it out after you know many seasons of talk of it still may
[00:17:02] Right, but like they're down one woman, you know, it's a little bit harder. Um, and you know, they are and and obviously like
[00:17:09] You know, they've just saw caroline and and sue, you know side with gabe over tiana
[00:17:14] Um, so I don't know like or like what happens what's gonna happen with with and and and and so on and again
[00:17:20] I'm sure that will go with that
[00:17:22] No, I know but like that's that was these were the dynamics that were like being assembled and you know, you kind of want to see them play out
[00:17:28] Yeah, with all due respect to tiana. She did not seem as though and again, we're watching an edited show
[00:17:34] She did not seem like that. She was like a major player in what was going on
[00:17:38] She seemed like that she was sort of like, uh, the fifth wheel of tuku who was sort of at the bottom of that alliance
[00:17:44] Didn't really realize that could have been a factor, you know had the women's alliance, uh, taken root
[00:17:49] I just don't know if caroline and sue are ever going to be on board for this women's alliance as long as they still have gabe as an ally and why they would
[00:17:57] Necessarily like give up that position we saw in survivor 45 that they oh there was talk of women's alliance
[00:18:03] But it was like for d and for julie
[00:18:05] They were never so high on doing the women's alliance because uh, they had a good thing going with austin and drew
[00:18:10] Yeah, I mean to play devil's advocate about tiana's position in the game
[00:18:13] Like yes, we didn't see her having a great position in the game
[00:18:15] But also she was the last pre juror, you know
[00:18:18] She went out in this sort of like random thing
[00:18:19] Like we were never gonna see all like her whole strategic web because of this random way she went out
[00:18:24] So there's sort of like an ex post facto element to it where if tiana made it far we'd know more about her like
[00:18:29] You know, did we did did we not see tiana strategic game because it wasn't there or did we not?
[00:18:34] See she on a strategic game because she went out in a sort of random haphazard thing
[00:18:38] Yeah, and the part that we did see was a lot of her trying to throw gabe under the bus in like uh, very like, uh public
[00:18:46] uh demonstrative ways, uh, which all like got back to gabe
[00:18:51] So it wasn't it doesn't I don't feel like that she was on the right path to begin with
[00:18:56] Yeah, look, I mean I agree with you and I like your you know
[00:18:59] The fact that it was the tuku group altogether kind of makes it feel less bad
[00:19:03] You know if there was another random person who had gotten swap screwed like
[00:19:06] The thing that bothered me the most was the fact that they couldn't really play out the strategy of it
[00:19:13] You know with full information, you know, they couldn't have this five person, you know, tete-a-tete
[00:19:17] But the fact was that had been played out like yeah, and that's what gabe said like
[00:19:22] Think about this is basically we're in a pre-merged travel council
[00:19:25] Like think about our relationships and our plans then and that's probably about how it played out
[00:19:30] So it was like to your point like these
[00:19:32] It did matter like what had happened and it wasn't just a kind of like random thing in the way that we're
[00:19:37] We're jam jam and and matt felt like oh these two guys are just screwed randomly like
[00:19:42] Tiana's game up to that point did end up being decisive in her ouster
[00:19:45] so like i'm arguing aggressively against it, but
[00:19:49] Partially because you're arguing for it and I mean
[00:19:51] No, but I mean like I think it's interesting to like hear both sides like express
[00:19:54] Yeah, I did not have as big like in the moment. I was like wow
[00:19:57] This is like crazy and i'm so engaged and oh no this like heartbreaking moment for tiana
[00:20:01] And then after the fact when I saw some of the fan like the really negative fan reaction to it
[00:20:05] I was like yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point
[00:20:06] Yeah, it was heartbreaking for tiana, uh, you know, she really was uh, you know
[00:20:11] Very emotional about it. I can totally understand why and it was such a betrayal
[00:20:15] Uh for her because and we saw
[00:20:18] That she did not see where you know that she was kind of being strung along from the tk vote
[00:20:23] Uh that there was this women's alliance and that she was part of it and the women were working together and gabe was at the bottom
[00:20:28] And then so to have that whole rug pulled out from under her this wasn't just a one-day thing
[00:20:32] This is a you know, she was being you know fed a lot of misinformation for probably 10 or 11 days in the game
[00:20:38] Yeah, yeah
[00:20:39] No, that's a that's a very good point and it was interesting that she was ready to turn on gabe
[00:20:44] You know, she was not immediately going to sacrifice rachel. Um, and carolyn made some carolyn or caroline caroline
[00:20:49] caroline made some great points, you know to her about you know, we we you know, it's now's now's et cetera
[00:20:55] Yes, okay
[00:20:56] Let me okay. How about this? I'll flip it around. Okay, i'll give you my biggest complaint about the episode last night
[00:21:02] Yeah, okay
[00:21:03] I thought that the entire
[00:21:05] First, uh, like there were like two acts in the or in the tribal council
[00:21:11] There was the pre-rachel leaving and then post rachel leaving
[00:21:15] The pre-rachel tribal council was just like one big whole song and dance for nothing
[00:21:22] Yeah, like we didn't we didn't need any of that. Um, and I do wonder okay for and there's two reasons one
[00:21:29] We the audience we know that okay, probably something is gonna happen
[00:21:33] The advantage is gonna come I like that. They didn't show us where the advantage, uh, was going to go
[00:21:38] I thought that that was a very fun way to to do it, but
[00:21:42] I'm
[00:21:42] I'm it got me thinking about pre-merged tribal councils versus tribal councils with a jury
[00:21:48] And you and I have been very positive on the tribal councils this season is a are we more likely to get some juice?
[00:21:55] Uh in a tribal council that doesn't have people watching it than opposed to a tribal council that has an audience where it's like very performative now
[00:22:03] Yeah, that's a really good point. That's a very good point
[00:22:05] Everyone is now sort of like jockeying to like show their position to the jury, but they don't want to be too abrasive
[00:22:11] And they don't want to say like hey, we got to stay keep our numbers. We got to say sorry, rachel
[00:22:15] We gotta be too coup strong. It's like they've got it like they're spinning for an audience of the whole rest of the tribe of what they're planning on doing tonight
[00:22:22] Of like well, you know, we want to keep our numbers, but we don't really want to keep our numbers
[00:22:26] So, you know, rachel's really got a shot here tonight because we don't want but they don't want to say like we don't want to be seen as five
[00:22:32] So it was like a lot of like double speak
[00:22:35] Uh, and I just got me thinking like our pre-merge tribal councils better than post-merge tribal councils
[00:22:41] That's interesting. I mean, I think I mean you mean in terms of like the banter in terms of the
[00:22:45] Yeah, like are we more likely to get honest answers from players in the pre-merge than post-merge tribal councils?
[00:22:52] That's very interesting
[00:22:53] And in post-merge to your point like with more with a bigger tribe like there's a lot more, you know
[00:22:56] There's obviously the audience of the jury
[00:22:58] But then there's also the audience of like the rest of the tribe who like you can't really out your alliance to
[00:23:02] And I don't have any evidence to support uh this theory either way
[00:23:06] But I just think that we're more likely to like hear honesty at a pre-merge tribal council
[00:23:11] Yeah, um that that's that's a good point. We'll we'll find out let's let's keep up let's keep a sharp eye on keep tabs on that
[00:23:17] Okay, all right. Let's talk a little bit about caroline because I think that caroline had a very good night
[00:23:24] Yeah, she I thought she played really exceptionally, you know fishy for caroline. Let's lead with that
[00:23:29] um
[00:23:30] She you know, first of all she went when um
[00:23:33] When tiana initially came to her about about voting out gabe, you know, she was man
[00:23:37] She managed to convince tiana that it was the wrong choice, right?
[00:23:40] Yeah
[00:23:40] Using you know using tiana's logic of hey if there's five of us going into the merge together
[00:23:45] Like we are going to be a big target, but if we turn on each other, you know that will be
[00:23:49] Um, you know seen as like a weak or two cool alliance, you know caroline made the argument that yes
[00:23:54] But they're not going to be coming after us like we are not going to be the top of that pecking order and we have some
[00:23:58] Some insulation with with gabe and kyle. Um, and then you know
[00:24:03] So I think she was able to kind of like keep everybody happy
[00:24:06] Um, and then when it was time to make a choice, you know, I think she made the tough but obviously correct decision
[00:24:12] And seemed to be the one unless I mean, obviously it's hard to know exactly what convinced kyle
[00:24:16] But I got the sense that she was the one who convinced kyle, right? Like kyle was one came to her
[00:24:20] It's like we you know said
[00:24:22] You know tiana's been totally up front with us and and leaving that conversation which we never saw the result of like then kyle ends up voting for tiana as well
[00:24:30] I thought kyle was uh did a good job of not be he was definitely closer with tiana and he did a good job of not writing
[00:24:40] uh, gabe's down name down just to uh, uh, like loyalty to the person who was going out of the game
[00:24:46] So I thought he did a good job with that
[00:24:48] I had wondered this steven and this is where I do tend to get myself into
[00:24:53] uh trouble in my analysis that do you think any of caroline's decision at tribal council?
[00:25:01] Was theater?
[00:25:03] Uh for the people who were uh sitting there watching this tribal council
[00:25:07] Right. She wanted to show to I don't know. That's a that's a good question. I mean she seemed to be
[00:25:13] based on my you know, totally
[00:25:16] Amateur and you know, I'll read of 30 seconds of footage right less than 30 seconds of footage
[00:25:21] Uh, I I seem like legitimately upset. I mean, I think that had to be really hard
[00:25:24] I mean you get tiana weeping there, you know saying over and over again like please
[00:25:28] But strategically isn't this an easy decision like she was never voting out gabe in that spot, right?
[00:25:33] Yeah, I don't know though because again
[00:25:34] It's like this ex post facto element where like we see we have been told this story of sue caroline and gabe as a trio
[00:25:40] Because like maybe because they're the trio that emerges from this, you know, I mean and and we haven't seen
[00:25:45] What you know caroline's heart is i'm sure she also feels some connection to tiana
[00:25:49] I mean she was the person that tiana went to right with this plan, you know
[00:25:54] And it's like every alliance on survivor is sort of like a network of like vibes and valences, you know
[00:26:00] Where it's not like so concrete and i'm sure for caroline like tiana was one of her options and one of her you know
[00:26:05] Paths forward and then to like sever that is obviously difficult especially when you know the person behind it
[00:26:09] I loved what she said about big smart moves. Uh, it was very like sophie-esque
[00:26:14] If caroline goes on to win this season put that in her winner montage
[00:26:17] Not that we do that anymore, but the idea of big smart moves, uh, is, you know, uh, you know
[00:26:24] Something that you know, we talk about a lot
[00:26:26] Steven
[00:26:27] Is there a strategy in uh getting other folks to make big dumb moves?
[00:26:34] Yeah, maybe so but you know
[00:26:36] I don't know as a player who likes control like I would not want people making big anything moves, you know
[00:26:41] You want people making like very rational very like straightforward moves according to their obvious self-interest not being like not wanting to blow up the game
[00:26:48] To for their resume not voting out their best friend, you know
[00:26:51] Just just play smart so that I can like play slightly smarter. Yeah, um the the uh, this is interesting in the in the chat
[00:26:58] Um, kendall says should kyle have still voted gabe because then there's like suggest some dissension in the group
[00:27:05] Hmm
[00:27:06] That's interesting. I just don't think that kyle is like
[00:27:10] I think that's one level beyond like where kyle is playing the game of like unless like somebody says with all due respect to kyle
[00:27:17] Like I think that he's sort of like, uh, he's playing like a loyal game
[00:27:21] Uh, I don't think that he's necessarily gonna like play the i'm going to i'm in your head of like you think that i'm now
[00:27:29] Turning on gabe, but i'm really still with gabe, but i'm gonna like throw the vote out there to make you think that i'm not actually doing what i'm doing
[00:27:36] Yeah, um, yeah, I mean, but you know, caroline could have said like, but I like the the thought
[00:27:42] Yeah, you know if he if he's like like let's let's vote let's vote out, you know gabe
[00:27:46] She she could have been like yeah, okay, okay
[00:27:49] Yeah, that would have been a little bit
[00:27:51] That's that's tricky even for her because then like he feels like he's been, you know, strung out
[00:27:55] So, yeah, left out to dry left out to dry
[00:27:58] What do you think about kyle uh having won two individual immunities but against that?
[00:28:04] The first one was only against a small field of only uh, what seven people
[00:28:08] Uh in the first immunity that he won and then this one
[00:28:11] He came in third in this challenge and wins immunity
[00:28:14] Yeah, yeah, and is he getting a raw deal in that?
[00:28:18] Yeah, he is like being seen as like this big uh comp beast, but he's only beating out a couple people
[00:28:23] Yeah, I saw dalton asking, you know, what's the do do um, what is it genevieve and um
[00:28:29] Teeny are they did they do they get credit for that?
[00:28:33] No, I don't think they do and I and I responded to dalton's tweet that I actually thought that for genevieve and teeny
[00:28:38] This is like a steal for them of yeah, they get the safety
[00:28:41] They get the barbecue and they don't have to wear the necklace of saying like oh comp beast
[00:28:45] Yeah
[00:28:47] Do people are people I mean, I guess you're right
[00:28:49] I guess like that's sort of like their subtextually for the for the contestants
[00:28:52] I yeah, I feel like I would as an observer someone with eyes
[00:28:55] I would be able to say like okay those two people did better than that one
[00:28:58] Yeah, but I don't know they have a short memory
[00:29:00] I it's the kind of thing we'd have to ask the player in terms of like these like narratives take hold and then there's nothing you can do to shake them
[00:29:07] Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, especially with two in a row. You're right
[00:29:10] And genevieve had just found the advantage where she was sort of like standing out and different than the group on the last one
[00:29:16] And so to have that and then you know for her to then be the person who wins this challenge
[00:29:21] Like I definitely think it could be a problem for genevieve
[00:29:23] Yeah, that's very interesting. Okay. Um, yeah
[00:29:26] Let me let's talk about where the episode started and the thing that got you very excited about andy
[00:29:31] He uh, he has that conversation with saw now. I saw you taking a victory lap, uh, when you saw the sleep preview of
[00:29:38] Uh, that saw coming to andy to explain that can you can you explain uh that?
[00:29:44] Yeah, so last week I said, you know that it was really bad strategy for sam to be so vocal with
[00:29:50] Saul about targeting, you know
[00:29:52] Casting another vote on andy a lot of people took umbrage with my perspective there
[00:29:56] I think a lot of people were confusing the the conversation in the shelter between sam and saul with the conversation at the
[00:30:04] Mergatory feast where sue throws out throws out andy's name and sam kind of like co-signs it and they're like
[00:30:09] What could have sam have said in that moment? And I was like, no, but I wasn't talking about that moment
[00:30:13] There's multiple moments on the show. It's an hour and a half long show. There's not just one moment
[00:30:16] Um, but but um, so what I was what I the moment that I had said was a mistake for for sam was in the shelter
[00:30:23] When saw was like, well, you know, I get looks like it, you know, they're coming like it looks like Rome wants me
[00:30:27] And then sam is the one who's like you've got to put another vote on andy, you know
[00:30:31] And I thought that was a mistake to be so vocal about it there for sam and especially when he could have
[00:30:35] Yeah, maybe then like either said someone else's name or just just not said anything just not said anything because to him
[00:30:41] If saw goes home, that's better than if andy goes home
[00:30:44] At least from what we've seen because andy is an ally of his and a very loyal ally of his
[00:30:47] So so that okay, i'll i'll do devil's advocate on this guys. I did go I did watch that uh line back and I thought it was interesting
[00:30:55] I paid extra attention to it
[00:30:56] So I think that sam says basically like hey, like I think you should write down andy's name because he said to saul
[00:31:02] You know, I i'm more comfortable keeping you in the game
[00:31:05] Uh, than him which I felt like that. Okay, sure if that is face value
[00:31:09] That's probably that's probably bad. Um, but
[00:31:13] Is sam just blowing smoke that they're gonna tell saul anyway to write down andy's name?
[00:31:20] Like the die is already cast on that is sam trying to
[00:31:23] You know puff up his relationship with saul to some degree to make saul feeling really good about sam
[00:31:30] Moving forward out of this now what sam did not foresee was that andy was going to feel some type of way about this and start asking saul
[00:31:39] What the hell guys uh about saul?
[00:31:41] Why did you write my name down and then saul would instantly give up sam but from sam's perspective is he trying to?
[00:31:48] uh, is does he maybe just trying to uh, uh, you know foster this relationship with saul?
[00:31:54] Listen, if you're the devil's advocate the devil needs new representation. Oh, like daddy
[00:31:58] Hey, um, the no because like if your point is that sam like
[00:32:04] didn't think you know
[00:32:05] First if sam didn't know it was a bad idea to put out his close allies name as the decoy boot or the you know
[00:32:11] the the second target like
[00:32:12] And therefore he should be excused. No, that's exactly what sam did wrong
[00:32:16] The thing you're saying that sam didn't know like that's what he did wrong
[00:32:19] Like you should not put out your allies name as the not even the decoy target
[00:32:24] But like the the second target like and and that's that's my whole objection to to what to what he was
[00:32:30] What he did which is that he
[00:32:33] Like if andy is there which they have every reason to think is going to be the case
[00:32:37] You know now saul has receipts and he has like hey, these are the people
[00:32:41] And of course andy's gonna want to know why was it my name who told you my name?
[00:32:45] Uh, this you know, and then of course like saul is gonna be able to say it was sam who told me your name
[00:32:49] Like sam doesn't need to put himself in that position
[00:32:52] He doesn't need to have that conversation with saul, you know, like he doesn't need to say andy's name
[00:32:57] He can say nothing. He can be like oh ask sue. She was she had some interesting ideas
[00:33:00] You know, like he doesn't need to be the guy putting andy's name forward so definitively
[00:33:05] um, and and you know, because the decoy boot or the or the the second target is always going to be like why me and and and and and and
[00:33:12] Phrased it perfectly, you know, he said
[00:33:15] You know, okay. I get like you didn't want to be the one sent home
[00:33:17] But like why my name of any other name and that was exactly my point last week, which is like
[00:33:21] Why put andy's name out there like just because sue said it just because he was sort of like the
[00:33:25] The known target but like you don't need to say anything sam like you don't you don't need to enter into that
[00:33:30] You know relationship like just just be like, you know, I don't know. So what are you thinking?
[00:33:34] You know, um, and so anyway, like this week don't write my name down. Yeah, yeah
[00:33:39] Um, when andy says like hey, why did you put my name down?
[00:33:43] Saul does have that receipt where he uh goes, you know says like hey, it was it was sam and you know it that resonates for andy
[00:33:50] Because I do think you know, even if we've seen sam repeatedly sort of like semi pull the wool over andy's eyes
[00:33:55] People know people have the vibe and andy's got the vibe that you know
[00:33:59] Something's not quite right with that relationship and and so when saul says that like that feels true for andy and and then andy
[00:34:06] You know, you're more mad when your allies betray you than when your enemies target you
[00:34:11] And so now andy's got a reason to target the rest of the line. That's a good good good, uh
[00:34:15] Scribble that down
[00:34:18] Okay, um, all right
[00:34:19] So then andy is now okay. Well now I gotta got to go after
[00:34:24] My old tribe mates and uh, we see him writing in the sand. I don't know what he was necessarily counting
[00:34:30] He's just like writing like an enemies list, uh in the same he's not he doesn't have a to-do list
[00:34:35] He has an enemies list. Okay on day one of the merge and he's writing down, uh sam's name and we see genevieve come into the picture
[00:34:44] And this, uh is so fun and this is like, uh, you know
[00:34:49] Wish casting genevieve and the alliance and this is very exciting and we know that genevieve is
[00:34:57] She likes working with some of these wild cards
[00:34:59] Yeah, that's true. That's true. She was she went in her rome was her previous number one
[00:35:04] Yeah, and so okay, so genevieve and andy end up having uh, this interesting pairing
[00:35:11] But steven, I I think that's what's so interesting about this is that there's also the conversation that comes up later
[00:35:17] Uh at the reward feast of the baby back ribs
[00:35:21] That there's this idea of okay yellow and red lava and gata
[00:35:27] Could we work together against tuku now?
[00:35:32] That it just so happens that andy and genevieve would would be part of this
[00:35:37] So is there like this other like a sleeper cell inside of the yellow and red alliance?
[00:35:44] That's going to be working to take out sam
[00:35:48] My guess is they do end up more aggressively targeting sam
[00:35:51] I mean what was interesting to me about that conversation was that they said
[00:35:54] If tuku doesn't vote
[00:35:56] It's each other out like then this group can work together
[00:35:59] Why why not just say that this group should vote and work together? You know, it's like that that that penner thing
[00:36:03] You know, like why not just be like this is the group?
[00:36:06] We're working together. They're like, okay
[00:36:07] If they don't target each other like you don't you don't need that other than that conditional statement just say we're we're together
[00:36:11] Yeah, and so in some way did saul sort of like upset that in by taking rachel out because now rachel comes back and all of a sudden
[00:36:21] Now that the you know, the the gata like oh, we can't forget about you know, sam and sierra now
[00:36:27] They have rachel back now
[00:36:29] Yeah, yeah, I think that's right
[00:36:31] I mean that that was that was what I thought the rationale for saul for not giving it to rachel was going to be if he didn't give it to rachel
[00:36:36] Um, it's probably more useful to him to have like a secret ally
[00:36:41] What's what's the move for saw here? Does he go to rachel and say I saved you or does he keep this in his pocket?
[00:36:48] Or you know the band the elastic band of his underpants and say it pull it out at final tribal council and say hey
[00:36:54] I had I did it, you know, the marianne approach not telling anyone anything
[00:36:57] I think don't tell anybody is the point even rachel
[00:37:00] Like I I think that the time to tell people would have been like hey
[00:37:05] What should we do to affect this tribal council?
[00:37:08] But I think that the fact that now if people are mad about what happened
[00:37:12] Then if you go and tell rachel that hey, I saved you it's like oh, so what do I owe you one now?
[00:37:19] It's almost like that to tell a person you did a thing for them
[00:37:23] It doesn't really buy you anything
[00:37:25] I feel like that it's just one of these like messed up things about human beings where if you tell them like hey
[00:37:31] You didn't know this. I actually did something good for you
[00:37:34] It's like I feel like that they're they end up more annoyed with you than if you were able to dangle it to rachel
[00:37:40] And say like hey if I like, uh, I can I have this thing I can help you. Oh my god, so I love you
[00:37:46] But if you tell them I already did the thing for you, they just end up annoyed with you
[00:37:50] It's like the french after world war ii
[00:37:52] Mm-hmm. It's just like that. It's just like no, but no, um
[00:37:55] That was like always the cliche right and obviously that's not 100% true that like the french were resentful of americans partially because of the american role in world war
[00:38:01] Anyway, um, I don't believe that but that was that was the cliche
[00:38:06] Yeah, we're all resentful of each other for all kinds of reasons
[00:38:08] So I mean that's interesting too because like then rachel can't go to the end with saw right like you can't go to the end with the person who saved you
[00:38:14] No, she can't and there's all sorts of reasons. So I think that you just have to like assault let the mystery be
[00:38:20] Yeah, yeah, and maybe like I think that so for saw I think it's almost like a hinky vote of like now
[00:38:27] I think he has to like use this as ammo to throw sam and sierra under the bus. It must have been them who else would save rachel?
[00:38:36] Um
[00:38:37] Right, yeah, that's a very good point
[00:38:39] But you don't think there's anything to be gained by him saying to rachel like hey like I want to you know
[00:38:44] I want to
[00:38:46] Have a secret alliance with you possible
[00:38:48] But she could also use that as ammo to throw him under the bus of like hey everybody just so, you know song not the thing
[00:38:53] He told me he saved me like what he lied to all of us
[00:38:56] And so I think that was a very funny scene too, which we have to acknowledge was saw like saw is great
[00:39:01] Saul is wonderful television and so I just think for saw like that
[00:39:06] Um, he missed the moment in which he could have used it to build trust with people and now he has to take it with him to the final travel council
[00:39:14] Yeah, yeah, that's interesting
[00:39:15] But I mean a great thing to mention
[00:39:17] I don't know though. I feel like if he had said it publicly then it wasn't like heidi's thing where I think he had to have you know
[00:39:23] To declare it she had to announce whose vote she was taking right?
[00:39:26] So with in this case
[00:39:27] She found it like in a public way. It was like all right everybody go look for keys and she had to like okay
[00:39:32] I'm the person that got the
[00:39:33] Right, right
[00:39:34] He'd unlock the thing
[00:39:35] And in this case I mean like I think if saw had said that like they could all come up with a decision together
[00:39:40] But saw would still have this kind of like asterisk by his name where oh saw saw did that big thing
[00:39:45] You know, he's got this resume point that none of the rest of us have, you know because he happened to be lying next to the urn
[00:39:52] Um, I mean so I I think it was right of him to play secretly
[00:39:56] I think so too. I I think that you know had he found it out in the open
[00:40:00] I I think that it could have been a group decision
[00:40:01] But he also then was like secretive of like that he went off into the woods and then oh genevieve's like you didn't share it with me
[00:40:08] Uh teenie's like you didn't share it with me like saw I thought we were friends
[00:40:11] And so I think that for him that he's gone too far down the road. He's got to keep it a secret
[00:40:17] Yeah, and it's interesting that the perception of rachel is as the god of glue right with not that like nobody knows that sam is the real glue guy
[00:40:24] Well according to sam, uh, it turns out that maybe is not as much of a glue guy
[00:40:29] Right, but my guess is rachel is also not the god of glue given that her best out, you know, the the
[00:40:34] You know her best ally was voted out. Yeah, I maybe there was no glue person
[00:40:38] Hmm no glue
[00:40:41] Maybe they had no glue. That was the ultimate the biggest secret. Yeah, no glue. Yeah
[00:40:46] Yeah, there was never any glue at all
[00:40:50] Let's start to work in some questions from the audience. I also just want to highlight of course, uh, steven fishback stole the show on the I stand
[00:40:59] Kagi on brand new documentary that aired
[00:41:03] Uh, we premiered it on tuesday night on youtube, but steven we had a premiere on monday night in philadelphia
[00:41:10] Uh, we had a screening at the ritz theater and oh the ritz hobnobbing with the glitterati
[00:41:17] Yeah, but steven I just want to tell you the biggest, uh
[00:41:21] Reaction from the crowd the biggest laugh line was what you talking about
[00:41:26] Tony coming at you for
[00:41:29] Uh having your feces stained glasses
[00:41:33] Yeah, one of my favorite moments in my uh survivor podcasting career
[00:41:36] Yeah, um, and and then there was a great clip that got shared by the all winners survivor instagram account
[00:41:42] They always find like such like deep cut things and they have found the clip of parvati
[00:41:47] Interviewing tony about his rivalry with you
[00:41:49] How are they finding the part like like does cbs still that have that online?
[00:41:53] I don't know how they find they find stuff that's like all the time they have like stuff of like uh survivor amazon like uh, like dvd extras
[00:42:00] It's like incredible. I don't know how they find at least like a dvd extra is on a digital record
[00:42:04] I understand like the after show that parvati hosted for two seasons or whatever like that seems very strange
[00:42:09] I don't understand how they do it, but they do uh amazing things over there
[00:42:13] They find all these like uh very deep cut uh videos. So, uh, it was a very very funny
[00:42:18] It was a very like I loved watching it. It was so fun. I mean, it was such a fun retrospective
[00:42:22] It was great to see all these different people's perspectives
[00:42:24] I love that you had like david samson, you know there with great commentary throughout, you know, you know trish obviously tasha
[00:42:30] It was you know, so many like of the players and then also really fun commentary from from the podcasters and other contestants
[00:42:36] Uh, it was great. It was like a very enjoyable thing
[00:42:38] The only thing I I was frustrated with was that truly 80 percent of my commentary that I delivered was about lj
[00:42:46] And only a very small portion of that made it into the like there was one tiny lj segment
[00:42:51] I had like one line about lj, but like 80 percent of the things I said were about lj
[00:42:55] Not enough cutting room floor. Let's see the lj cut
[00:42:58] Yeah, okay. All right. Well, we'll see. We'll see if we could have some dvd extras. Okay. All right
[00:43:03] Uh, let's start to bring in uh some questions from the listeners. Okay, um
[00:43:10] How about the question from nb703? Do you think that rachel made the right move?
[00:43:14] Uh not to get gabe out with block a vote tiana was offering her a branch and now uh, she went home, uh, because of rachel's decision
[00:43:22] First off. Okay. Let me start off with which so how do you think rachel was going to vote prior to receiving the advantage?
[00:43:30] That's a really good question
[00:43:31] I got the sense that she did not believe what gabe was was telling her
[00:43:34] So I had the sense that she probably would vote for gabe
[00:43:36] You know, she said she had a long confessional where she said, you know, these things gabe is saying sounds so good
[00:43:41] And I want to believe them but like I don't really know
[00:43:43] Whereas vis-a-vis tiana it seemed like she's really more and
[00:43:47] You know tiana was more sincere gabe was like like literally winking at the camera
[00:43:52] Like during during that interchange. Yeah, so you know, she correctly read tiana as more honest than that
[00:43:57] So it is interesting that she could have gotten like if the if she felt like that the tiana and kyle plan was sincere
[00:44:05] Um, and and maybe caroline did a good enough job of like talking tiana off of it
[00:44:11] I don't remember that did did tiana go to rachel with the plan or did she just go to caroline with the with the the
[00:44:18] Pitch of a plan to bring to rachel? Oh, that's a really good question. Um the chat will know yeah
[00:44:25] I was that offer on the table for rachel
[00:44:29] Rachel but that could be a false memory
[00:44:31] Yeah, yeah, I don't remember if she actually laid out the plan uh with her because you've run the risk of rachel going back to
[00:44:38] Gabe and then saying what the plan uh was going to be gabe went to uh,
[00:44:43] You went to rachel with a plan which I think was uh, certainly a fake plan to vote out caroline in that spot and is saying she went to rachel first
[00:44:52] Yeah, yeah
[00:44:52] So I I do think that that is interesting riskier for rate for rachel
[00:44:58] Right for rachel. Yes for
[00:45:02] Yeah, to use the the block of vote and then ultimately count on uh tiana and kyle there
[00:45:09] Yeah, that would be a bad call
[00:45:10] That would be a very bad choice because if she leaves they have to vote out one of their own like there's no real gain for her
[00:45:16] In staying around to cast that vote, right?
[00:45:19] And there's a tremendous I mean, maybe there's like
[00:45:20] Well, I see I disagree. I I feel like that she went with the safe move, but like the you know, um
[00:45:25] The bigger move would be certainly to get gabe out in that spot, right, right, right. Yeah, that's true
[00:45:30] And to like do the block of it. It would be a bigger game do enough to win over rachel like uh
[00:45:34] Did gabe make rachel feel like hey i'm we're working together? Yeah, um,
[00:45:39] I don't know if you don't want the big move in this spot, right?
[00:45:41] Like that's what got emily flipping out, right? She took too much credit, um, you know for bruce's boot, right?
[00:45:46] And everyone's like, oh, she's playing hard, you know
[00:45:49] Just famous like stick around you want to have your big move on day 24 or 25
[00:45:53] You know, you don't need to have the big move on day
[00:45:56] Oh, yeah, rachel's a big threat now at the final 12. Yeah, that's fair
[00:46:00] Yeah, that's fair. Just take leave be safe
[00:46:02] I don't think there's anything that anybody could say to me that would have caused me to stick around in that tribal council being rachel like
[00:46:08] Regardless of how certain you feel you just never know. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Um
[00:46:14] How about um
[00:46:17] A question from uh
[00:46:19] Ellis wants to know uh with only one person going home last night
[00:46:22] Do you think that they will do the inevitable double boot?
[00:46:25] Hmm
[00:46:25] I don't think it's an inevitable double boot
[00:46:27] I I think that steven that based off of when people are saying the finale are bryce and wendell have already announced a finale party on december 18th
[00:46:35] That gives us 14 weeks of this survivor season. I think we're getting an extra episode
[00:46:40] Yeah, wow, that's fun
[00:46:42] Mm-hmm
[00:46:43] Didn't it used to be 14 episodes? You know, one of them was the uh, the clip show
[00:46:47] Yes, I think that that, uh
[00:46:50] Certainly was the case, uh way back when but I think yeah, I think we're squeezing another episode out
[00:46:55] The clip show by the way always a very painful watch do you ever like when you went and re-watch seasons would you re-watch the clip show?
[00:47:01] No, I think a couple of times I did I think actually uh your season I think token chains
[00:47:06] I actually watched the uh clip show. I think that's actually one of the better ones
[00:47:09] Yeah, there's a lot of like unseen footage in uh, the token chains one
[00:47:13] Yeah, like joe and spencer playing jato bob baseball
[00:47:18] I think that they really used to half-ass it on them like way back when and then I think that like as they were getting like
[00:47:24] Uh, there was less hype for the clip show. I think they really did try to put a lot more of like never before seen stuff into the clip show
[00:47:31] Yeah, yeah
[00:47:31] Otherwise, it was just like basically summary
[00:47:33] Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, but I do think token chains uh, maybe the best clip show
[00:47:38] Yes, you can uh, you can have that the best season
[00:47:41] Yeah, okay
[00:47:43] Next week steven. Oh my gosh, I tell you like yeah, I was at the dinner with some friends and like i've gotten them into survivor
[00:47:48] And of course the first season they watched was token jeans and now they're watching, you know
[00:47:50] Now they're watching like 44 or 45 and they're like, oh my gosh, it was so much harder in your day
[00:47:55] You guys had it so suffered so much more
[00:47:57] Wow this modern survivor so I was I like honestly like
[00:48:00] Was about to ascend to heaven I was like I can't say that, you know, because people get mad, but
[00:48:04] I don't know if it
[00:48:05] The like we don't have anything to eat necessarily comes through uh, it comes through the screen
[00:48:11] Yeah, yeah, what are you gonna do? Okay, steven uh next week uh speaking of food the auction is gonna be back, uh next week
[00:48:18] I hope it's just like pure joyful all I I just want the pure goofy fun auction
[00:48:22] No, I think I think we're keeping the survivor 45 rules for the auction
[00:48:27] Okay, okay. Well, whatever it's fun. I love the auction. Did you have an auction in token jeans?
[00:48:31] Oh, yeah, we had a great auction. We wanted like the best
[00:48:33] Oh, yeah, we did with Taj
[00:48:34] Yeah, yeah
[00:48:35] Yes, yes, what did you get for the auction?
[00:48:38] I won the auction. I didn't get to see eddie george, but I didn't even know who he was at that. So it didn't really matter
[00:48:43] um, I got um, first of all I got peanut butter and chocolate
[00:48:48] Um, just for myself. I was allowed to get naked
[00:48:52] No, well, yes, but uh, no, no, didn't have to get naked
[00:48:55] um, then I also got the chicken hearts which made air and then I also got this giant plate of like I got a beer and like a chicken
[00:49:05] Like I like got more food sustenance than anybody else in that auction. Yeah, so you did win the auction. Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah, okay
[00:49:13] um
[00:49:13] Um, steven
[00:49:16] Where do we go from here with uh, this uh group? Well, like what do you think is the
[00:49:20] Group that comes together next week? Yeah, I mean we do seem to be seeing right okay
[00:49:25] So the groupings that we kind of see now are there's this we know about this gabe sue caroline grouping
[00:49:31] Kyle seems to be somewhat outside of that but yet a part of it, you know, we've got this maybe andy saw
[00:49:37] Uh genevieve situation that like probably teenies a part of to some in some capacity
[00:49:42] Um, we know that sam and sierra are tight and rachel could be
[00:49:46] But you can also see now you can kind of be like well
[00:49:48] Is is rachel going to be pulled over into this?
[00:49:51] Saul andy teeny genevieve group because she's got bad blood with sam and sierra
[00:49:55] Um, I don't know. It's like I hope she has the real vote sims here
[00:49:59] I I think that sam and sarah
[00:50:00] I think that at this point they might be more aligned with uh, sam and sierra than andy is
[00:50:06] Um, rachel might be maybe but like, you know, she also after the blind side
[00:50:10] She she I mean she went to andy. I was like, I don't really have a place now
[00:50:13] And she's like I got to find some new people
[00:50:14] So I think she might be more of a free agent than you know, than uh, got a strong
[00:50:18] so if we're leaning towards, you know, okay, some sort of like uh ultimate
[00:50:23] uh, sam and sierra are targets
[00:50:26] Do we think that next week ends up being like uh, a
[00:50:31] What a nine how many people are left? Uh, that 11 people are left
[00:50:35] Like are we looking at like maybe like an eight to three vote next week?
[00:50:39] It could be it really could be it does feel like that sam and sierra story has like
[00:50:42] Been building there's been a lot of like a few episodes of this narrative of andy and it does feel like now is like
[00:50:48] I can't imagine it lasting all season long, right? Like I mean this it feels like it's kind of reaching ahead
[00:50:53] So I some yeah at some point someone's getting voted out. Yes. No doubt about that
[00:50:58] Uh, somebody is definitely gonna get voted out, but I all in here first that does the andy and genevieve
[00:51:04] Like I guess that maybe if they want their like pound of flesh, uh for putting andy's name out there
[00:51:10] Is that what comes on and then tuku just piles on like like
[00:51:14] Don't forget about tuku everybody. Yeah, they voted out tiana, but don't there's still four people over there
[00:51:19] I mean, there's also a world where kyle is the target because you know for for reasons you suggested
[00:51:24] I don't think so throwing his name out very aggressively too. So maybe there's some legacy of that are you even yeah
[00:51:29] I don't know you never know. Okay. All right, steven
[00:51:32] So next week, uh, you and I are going to be together, uh on friday next week
[00:51:38] So be on the lookout for that and uh,
[00:51:42] Hopefully they don't call the election in the middle of our survivor. No dolls on friday. Whoa
[00:51:48] Everybody will just like turn this off instantly
[00:51:50] What no keep on this is much more uplifting. This is fun politics is very stressful very stressful
[00:51:55] Yeah, okay, so uh, we'll be together on friday, uh next week
[00:52:01] Also, I have a very fun thing going on i'm gonna be uh, i'll be actually screening the episode early
[00:52:07] Well, yeah unc chapel hill saturday night for a big night on the campus of unc
[00:52:13] More hobnob you I feel like you're doing even more hobnobbing than you
[00:52:17] More can't stop won't stop right yeah yeah once you've hobnobbed you know, you just got to keep hobnobbing
[00:52:22] Yep, so that's gonna be a very fun event coming up a b.h. Saturday night
[00:52:26] Always be hobnobbing is it a b h k
[00:52:31] Yes, okay
[00:52:31] I don't have the k in hobnob. I always thought of it as I didn't know those h-o-b-n-o
[00:52:35] B-b-i. I don't think it's like a like a doorknob
[00:52:38] Oh, it's uh, a that I assume that it would be a k in there
[00:52:42] Because you're like opening the door to upper crust society. Yeah, yeah, no, I don't think there's a k in the hobnob
[00:52:48] Interesting. Okay. I learned something new today. All right. Yeah, and then also, uh, we have tickets on sale for our
[00:52:54] Live event coming up in houston just over a month away december 4th. I will be a hob
[00:53:01] Always be hobnobbing. I'll be hobnobbing in uh, houston texas on uh,
[00:53:06] December 3rd and 4th our uh, the patron meetup coming up on the third and then our live show, uh, a
[00:53:14] Big turnout is expected in houston texas
[00:53:17] Tickets are on sale to the public at robinswebs.com slash houston. All right
[00:53:21] Houston is a great there's a lot of funds for like like texas survivors
[00:53:25] I feel like who might come out for a houston uh, no, the houston hobnob
[00:53:28] That's a promo code for the patron tickets houston hobnob. Okay. Yeah. All right, uh chase
[00:53:34] We will let you get back on the case here tonight. Steven, what's your favorite, uh, halloween treat?
[00:53:40] Halloween treat. Well, obviously the reese's peanut butter cup is the best halloween treat
[00:53:43] That seems like kind of a no-brainer. I mean, maybe people don't consider it
[00:53:46] You're a guy who will pay big money for chocolate and peanut butter
[00:53:50] $20 I got that for um
[00:53:53] That was a bargain $20 for a little bowl of chocolate people
[00:53:55] I mean, that's kind of what it costs now
[00:53:57] I know
[00:53:58] Like that's a reasonable price for that
[00:54:01] You go to the airport, you know, like a couple of peanut butter cups, $20
[00:54:06] Yeah, exactly exactly wait. I need to address something people in the chat are mad that i'm not giving salt fishy
[00:54:12] First of all, I do think salt play great and I came into this thinking I was gonna go salt fishy
[00:54:15] But then like caroline really was you know, I felt like the strategic mover of the episode
[00:54:19] Saul had a lot of great moments, you know
[00:54:21] Finding the clue deploying it to rachel was the correct moment. I thought like not
[00:54:25] I thought he did everything correctly
[00:54:26] Saul's gotten a fishy
[00:54:28] That's the other thing
[00:54:28] Yes, caroline deserves the fishy this is a no-brainer
[00:54:31] I would I would push back
[00:54:33] When there's question yeah, no, I know you what I appreciate
[00:54:35] Caroline this is a no-brainer fishy for caroline. There's no debate. Okay. Okay.
[00:54:40] With all due respect to salt
[00:54:41] Okay, okay. All right. Yeah, uh, he saw got the potato salad that that's he got his reward
[00:54:48] And he got it a great gift that will live forever. Okay, not since aubrey have we had uh, so much excitement around potato salad
[00:54:56] Okay, all right. Thank you so much for joining us. Take care ready. Have a good one. Bye
[00:56:03] Big thanks to eric barger who composed the beautiful ballad you just heard hear more of his music at it electric over on instagram