Know-It-Alls: Survivor 47 Ep 13

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[00:00:30] Die Akkulaufzeit.

[00:00:31] Die Akkulaufzeit.

[00:00:53] Die Akkulaufzeit.

[00:00:58] In Part 1 of the Survivor 47 Finale.

[00:01:01] Survivor know-it-all, Steven, how are you?

[00:01:04] Very confused to be talking to you today, Rob.

[00:01:06] Normally we podcast after the episode, but the episode is only half over.

[00:01:09] What are we doing?

[00:01:10] What are we doing? It's halftime.

[00:01:11] Steven, now will you give out one or two fishies for the Part 1 2-Boot episode?

[00:01:18] Wow, there's a pick one.

[00:01:19] I think one, I think it'll probably be one and it'll probably be Rachel, right?

[00:01:24] It's like, yeah.

[00:01:25] Okay.

[00:01:26] I haven't actually thought about it at all, but we'll talk.

[00:01:28] We'll get into it.

[00:01:29] We will get into it here.

[00:01:31] I think this should be a pretty good one here today.

[00:01:33] A lot to unpack from the two boots, two big players went home.

[00:01:38] Andy and Genevieve exit interviews are up with both of them.

[00:01:41] They both were great on the exit interview earlier today, and we will take your questions as well

[00:01:48] on this show live.

[00:01:50] And then I got another podcast in addition to our patron Q&A coming up on Friday.

[00:01:55] I'm going to check in with Drew Basile this weekend.

[00:01:57] So another very smart, bespectacled survivor to talk about.

[00:02:02] I think he was a sixth placer, right?

[00:02:04] So, yeah, perfect time to talk to him, I guess, or fifth placer I could talk to also.

[00:02:09] But we're going to talk to Drew Basile.

[00:02:11] Yeah, he's great.

[00:02:13] I love him.

[00:02:14] I love his takes.

[00:02:14] He's really insightful about the whole thing.

[00:02:17] He has hot takes.

[00:02:18] Yeah, he does have hot takes.

[00:02:20] Yeah, so we'll talk to him.

[00:02:22] But Steven, all right, let's get into everything after we had our two boots last night.

[00:02:31] How are you feeling going into part two of the finale?

[00:02:34] I'm a little, you know, here's the thing.

[00:02:37] You go into the finale, you're like, I got my ideas about who's going to win.

[00:02:39] I don't know what's going to happen, but I got my ideas.

[00:02:42] And the challenging thing was, I felt like this is really like leaving, you know, finale

[00:02:47] part one.

[00:02:48] It really felt like a Rachel coronation, right?

[00:02:50] Like we are coming out of this episode thinking, wow, Rachel is going to win this thing.

[00:02:55] So she just wins this thing next week.

[00:02:56] It's like, OK, great.

[00:02:57] She won this.

[00:02:57] It's a little bit of like, you know, you know, but other people have said, have we ever

[00:03:03] gone into the finale and, you know, not known, you know, as like a general fandom, not individuals

[00:03:09] because we're all flawed as people, but as a fandom, we're infallible.

[00:03:12] Other than the season 43, you know, typically we, the fandom has a good sense of who's going

[00:03:17] to win by the finale.

[00:03:18] So maybe this is normal.

[00:03:19] Just it's going to be Rachel and let's enjoy it.

[00:03:20] It does feel like that we are headed cruising even towards a Rachel win next week.

[00:03:25] I do think that the one dark horse possibility, which you have kept alive all through the

[00:03:31] season is that I think that the possibility of Sam winning the season and we can talk about

[00:03:39] some of the like how that could happen, but also like from in terms of like his visibility

[00:03:46] throughout the season that I do think that there's also a non-zero chance.

[00:03:50] I think you had said last night on social media that you felt like 80% Rachel, but there's

[00:03:54] still, you know, that 20% and then some like fractions in the couch for Sue and Tini left

[00:04:01] over.

[00:04:01] It's so sad.

[00:04:02] I was so bullish on Tini for so long.

[00:04:04] I feel like I was really, you know, driving the Tini train for so long and now right off

[00:04:08] the cliff.

[00:04:09] Off the cliff.

[00:04:10] Yeah.

[00:04:10] Yeah.

[00:04:10] Now I'm just like looking for a new train.

[00:04:12] Okay.

[00:04:12] Well, let's talk about what did happen last night and let's talk about these two different

[00:04:18] votes and for Andy, um, I saw a lot of like, um, or a few people like questioning about

[00:04:25] project Italy, like, Oh, was like what it turns out project Italy wasn't such a great

[00:04:31] move because Andy, I think that's a poppycock to look back at.

[00:04:37] I mean, what would you call that?

[00:04:39] If you look at the results of something that happened and then judge the move

[00:04:42] results oriented.

[00:04:44] Oh yeah.

[00:04:45] Yeah.

[00:04:45] Results oriented thinking.

[00:04:46] But I think that Andy, like, I think it was clear as day what happened to Andy, uh,

[00:04:52] and had nothing to do with project Italy.

[00:04:55] Yeah.

[00:04:56] I mean, it was like tangentially related, but coming into the episode operation Italy.

[00:05:00] I'm sorry.

[00:05:00] I keep saying, I don't know why I keep saying project Italy.

[00:05:02] Even Andy had to correct me today.

[00:05:03] Yeah.

[00:05:04] Sorry, everybody.

[00:05:06] Listen, if they just called it.

[00:05:07] It's less syllables.

[00:05:09] Yeah.

[00:05:09] Um, PS, I spoke to Dr. Christian Hubicki about a big question that we all had, uh,

[00:05:14] about operation Italy, which was, was there a rights issue?

[00:05:18] And he said that on his season they were told not to call themselves the Avengers.

[00:05:22] So there you go.

[00:05:23] Yeah.

[00:05:23] But people have pointed to that.

[00:05:25] Um, I guess that the Italian job is on Paramount plus, but sometimes these movies like shift

[00:05:32] the rights from one thing.

[00:05:33] It's like, it's like, yeah, it's good now, but two years from now is the Italian job going

[00:05:38] to be on Paramount plus.

[00:05:40] Right.

[00:05:40] And like, what kind of rights do they have?

[00:05:42] Maybe it's not international rights.

[00:05:43] You know, do they have the rights in Canada or survivor areas?

[00:05:45] So we have the rights to the original Italian job, but not the remake.

[00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:50] All right.

[00:05:50] So getting into the question of like, so Andy comes into this episode with like a very

[00:05:53] good strategy for deflecting the, um, you know, the, the question of like, did he,

[00:05:59] you know, who was responsible?

[00:06:00] And he says like, oh yeah, I just was like a last minute thing.

[00:06:02] And you know, we all kind of were on different pages and he sells to his former allies that

[00:06:08] this was a sort of haphazard thing that came together.

[00:06:11] He decided at the last minute to flip, you know, Sam decided at the last minute to do

[00:06:14] something else.

[00:06:15] And oh my gosh, look at this by this like crazy series of circumstances.

[00:06:19] Um, but it's like, it's like the mastermind, you know, who, who like goes mad that nobody

[00:06:23] is giving him the credit he deserves.

[00:06:25] And so like over the course of this episode, that the pressure to finally reveal himself,

[00:06:29] I feel like that happened in talented Mr. Ripley, maybe not, maybe Tom Ripley gets,

[00:06:34] you know, he gets away with it.

[00:06:35] Okay.

[00:06:36] Well, we'll have to do a rewatch of that and don't call your alliance, uh, the talented

[00:06:40] Mr. Ripley's either, because you won't be able to get away with it.

[00:06:43] Yeah.

[00:06:43] And so, uh, I had the chance to talk to Andy this morning and he talked a little bit about

[00:06:47] that and this idea of, you know, he was battling this perception of, you know, is,

[00:06:52] is he getting the credit?

[00:06:53] And he talked about it with Rachel and, uh, Rachel said, you know, really people are not

[00:06:58] really, it's not bad, but it's sort of like a, you know, a nothing burger in terms of

[00:07:02] how people are looking at you.

[00:07:04] And he talked about how that he felt like that Rachel was going to be a very influential

[00:07:08] juror.

[00:07:09] And he thought that he had the chance to sort of like incept her with his game and send

[00:07:14] her to the jury.

[00:07:15] Have you seen or can recall like a history of survivor players ever doing that before

[00:07:21] of sort of like sending somebody to the jury, not necessarily like their friend, but okay,

[00:07:27] I'm taking somebody out and I want to send them like a, give them my game plan to relate

[00:07:32] to the jury.

[00:07:33] Now, first of all, I want to say, this is what's annoying about doing this podcast on

[00:07:36] Thursdays is that I on blue sky was blue sky being this, you know, that I think Andy

[00:07:42] was doing this.

[00:07:43] And it's a really smart idea to like get someone because when you show up at the jury and

[00:07:47] you say, Hey, I did all these great things.

[00:07:49] No one is going to believe you, but sending someone there who can make your case for you

[00:07:52] or who at least believes in your case, all the difference.

[00:07:55] Anyway, had I said it yesterday, you know, then I would get credit for like, you know,

[00:07:59] getting, but now I'm just like repeating what Andy said.

[00:08:01] Anyway, I think it's a really, really smart idea, which is this idea.

[00:08:05] Cause like we've seen it time and time again, someone shows up to the jury on day 26 or day

[00:08:10] 39 says, here is how I'm responsible for all these great moves.

[00:08:14] We saw it with Cassidy.

[00:08:15] We certainly saw with Charlie last season, right?

[00:08:17] Nobody thought of Charlie as a mastermind.

[00:08:20] And then you're in this jury moment.

[00:08:22] The jurors are not going to like fundamentally change their perceptions of you over the course

[00:08:26] of this two hours, because especially because obviously when you're there in front of the

[00:08:31] jury, you're going to be making up all these grandiose tales.

[00:08:33] So you kind of have to work with the, you know, the jurors as they perceive you.

[00:08:38] And we've seen it, um, in the past where someone said, Oh, I did this.

[00:08:41] And then a juror will like, yes, like I can confirm he did this.

[00:08:43] You know, I give, I give you like credit for, for that move.

[00:08:46] Yeah.

[00:08:46] Um, but, um, so I think this is a really good move for Andy.

[00:08:51] Now has anybody done this in the past?

[00:08:53] I mean, I don't know if we've ever seen it.

[00:08:55] Like I, I'm of course, like I, that's why I think it's kind of smart.

[00:08:59] I don't think, I mean, can you think of someone?

[00:09:01] No, I can't think of somebody that did this like this.

[00:09:03] Uh, Ryan, uh, brings this up.

[00:09:06] I, I've mentioned this last night also, uh, that it's very big brother coded to be doing

[00:09:10] a jury management by telling someone as, as they go home.

[00:09:13] A lot of times I know you're not a big brother person, but on big brother, it's sort of like

[00:09:16] a foregone conclusion.

[00:09:17] I like, ah, Steven, it's not going to work out, but let me, I, I, let me tell you about

[00:09:21] my game a little bit.

[00:09:23] Some of the things that you don't know, there's nothing you can do.

[00:09:25] You're going home.

[00:09:26] It's going to be an eight to two vote.

[00:09:27] You can't like the big brother vote doesn't flip at the last second.

[00:09:30] And people have done that before on big brother.

[00:09:33] And Andy, I think did a lot of things that were, uh, from, you know, taken from big brother.

[00:09:38] And he talked about a couple of them in the exit press.

[00:09:41] And so it's interesting, but I, uh, when I spoke with, um, Tiffany and Hunter a couple

[00:09:46] of weeks ago on one of the post game shows, uh, they were talking about how they did not

[00:09:51] really know some of the things that Charlie had done and really, uh, they were learning

[00:09:55] things at the final tribal council.

[00:09:56] And that maybe had Charlie planted those seeds at earlier tribal councils.

[00:10:01] Is that the place where you could do this?

[00:10:04] Where sort of like, uh, saying things out in the open.

[00:10:07] I think you're right.

[00:10:08] That that's an interesting idea where you see it at, at the, at the, at the tribal council

[00:10:13] where the jurors certainly are paying attention and listening to the things that the players

[00:10:16] say.

[00:10:17] And it would be a really interesting place to do that, but you're still like operating

[00:10:21] against their fundamental perceptions of you.

[00:10:23] And that's why I think the idea of kind of trying to get someone who you have had this

[00:10:29] good relationship with, you're not really totally responsible for voting out.

[00:10:33] And you think it's pretty reliable that they are going to get voted out.

[00:10:36] That obviously is the fundamental problem with Andy's plan here is that Rachel is not

[00:10:41] voted out.

[00:10:41] And in fact, uses this information to blindside him.

[00:10:44] Um, but I, a lot of people I saw were like, well, you have to imagine that everyone has

[00:10:49] an idol and you have to suspect that, you know, how, how could he be so dumb as to not

[00:10:52] think that to at least consider the possibility that you would have an idol.

[00:10:55] I think in survivor.

[00:10:57] You often have to make plays where you are weighing the risk of someone having some idol

[00:11:03] that they have had, you know, made no suggestion that they have against the risk or reward

[00:11:08] of voting for them or doing something else.

[00:11:10] And in my mind, obviously it didn't work out, but this was not a terrible risk.

[00:11:13] Like they had no suggestion that Rachel had an idol.

[00:11:16] She, she dealt it for a really long time.

[00:11:18] They didn't have any kind of idea of where she might've got it.

[00:11:21] And so for Andy to like potentially position himself as, you know, for a win at the, at

[00:11:27] the risk of, you know, this magical scenario where Rachel has an idol, which happened to

[00:11:31] be true.

[00:11:32] You know, I still think is, is good.

[00:11:34] You know, something else that Andy got unlucky about is that Genevieve's fake idol ends up

[00:11:40] you know, and Genevieve ends up, you know, having immunity here, but the, you know, the

[00:11:45] threat of Genevieve's fake idol, I think also like brings teeny on board and they're trying

[00:11:52] to, you know, they're snowing teeny.

[00:11:53] Rachel goes over and this came up on the on fire podcast.

[00:11:57] Charlie had a good point about this, that, you know, Rachel is hearing teeny being snowed

[00:12:03] as a, and so Rachel assumes this to be true information because, uh, that Rachel's really

[00:12:09] trusting this information she's overhearing, even though it's lies that is being told to

[00:12:14] teeny.

[00:12:15] And do you feel like that, uh, Genevieve having the fake idol, uh, ends up burning Andy in

[00:12:21] this scenario?

[00:12:22] Well, I mean, in this case, Genevieve had immunity, but do you mean that there, there was some

[00:12:25] suggestion that she would have played it for Sam?

[00:12:27] Well, I think that that's sort of like what forces, uh, teenies, uh, to, to, to join up

[00:12:33] with, right.

[00:12:34] With, uh, with that group.

[00:12:36] Right.

[00:12:37] Yeah.

[00:12:37] Um, it's, it's interesting.

[00:12:39] I mean, it's.

[00:12:40] Or is it just because that, that Rachel has the vote block?

[00:12:44] Yeah.

[00:12:44] Um, I, I think ultimately it makes the most sense for teeny to vote.

[00:12:52] Well, I'm, I'm confused with the question.

[00:12:54] What's the question?

[00:12:54] I'm just wondering in terms of, uh, was there any sort of like, uh, you know, could, could,

[00:12:59] uh, Andy exposing, uh, Genevieve's fake idol, uh, have changed anything here in terms

[00:13:05] of, you know, teeny is the mystery vote that just like flip sides, uh, automatically and

[00:13:11] goes away from, uh, Rachel and Sue, uh, which then causes them to, uh, you know, that Rachel

[00:13:19] is, uh, you know, in this bad spot where she goes to Andy and then Andy ends up telling

[00:13:23] her, uh, you know, about his whole game.

[00:13:26] And then that flips everything around for Rachel.

[00:13:28] Yeah.

[00:13:28] I mean, I think at the final six, it makes sense for teeny to vote for Rachel, right?

[00:13:31] The, the, the two people who are already high-fiving each other over the, one of them

[00:13:35] deserving the win are Rachel and Genevieve.

[00:13:37] Genevieve is immune.

[00:13:38] Like, of course you're going to vote for Rachel in this spot.

[00:13:40] Um, and you know, I think if you sort of hope that even if she has an idol, that you're

[00:13:44] not the one that that's, that's voted for, I think it's reasonable from teeny's perspective.

[00:13:48] Um, I mean, let's talk about the thing with, with Andy though, in terms of, you know,

[00:13:51] deputizing a juror to be, you know, your voice on the jury.

[00:13:54] So the only thing we didn't talk about was, is this annoying, you know, to Rachel,

[00:13:58] is this kind of condescending, you know, because like there was a moment,

[00:14:02] when Andy said, you're going to be on the jury, um, in this really definitive way.

[00:14:07] And it brought me back to being in token genes when, you know, I was going along with a plan

[00:14:11] and Debbie BB said to me, you know, you're going to be on the jury.

[00:14:14] And I was like, F that you're going to be on the ebbing jury, you know?

[00:14:16] And it really like radicalized me, you know, to like do more.

[00:14:20] And of course that was at the final, whatever, nine.

[00:14:22] And this is at the final six.

[00:14:22] Um, do you think that there's a way to approach this conversation where it works or is this

[00:14:31] always going to kind of backfire to some extent because the person is going to be annoyed at

[00:14:35] your, you know, at, at the audacity.

[00:14:37] It's a great question.

[00:14:38] I mean, they're going to be on the jury.

[00:14:39] I think we sort of have to get, you know, Rachel's take on whether or not like, uh, how

[00:14:44] that changed her opinion.

[00:14:45] Like, uh, was any part of this that she's like, Oh, you, you think I'm going to the

[00:14:49] jury?

[00:14:50] Like, uh, okay.

[00:14:50] Well, jokes on you, but, uh, that she, that this caused her to ultimately do what she did.

[00:14:56] Also, she has the idol.

[00:14:58] Um, so if she didn't have the idol, I wonder how this conversation would have been received.

[00:15:03] Right.

[00:15:04] Because then if she did know she was going and then she's being like, you know, Andy's

[00:15:07] like selling his story.

[00:15:08] That might be kind of annoying.

[00:15:10] Like her game is ending.

[00:15:13] She, there's nothing she can do about it.

[00:15:14] And he's like jockeying for position.

[00:15:16] Like that might be, if anything, this should have been a tell for Andy that like, Oh, Rachel's

[00:15:20] not going home.

[00:15:21] Cause she said it like, Oh, go on.

[00:15:22] Tell me more about this.

[00:15:23] Whereas I think any normal person would have been like, get out.

[00:15:27] Listen, I don't want to hear this right now.

[00:15:29] Yeah.

[00:15:29] Yeah.

[00:15:29] Yeah.

[00:15:30] Yeah.

[00:15:30] I got to save my game.

[00:15:31] Yeah.

[00:15:32] I'm in the final six.

[00:15:33] Let me consider who to vote for.

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:34] Here.

[00:15:34] Um, but I mean, honestly, I think that's what makes Rachel, you know, sort of unique.

[00:15:38] And, and Andy's in a position where, you know, he has worked with Rachel.

[00:15:41] He's been really sincere about his desire to work with her from the very beginning of

[00:15:45] the game.

[00:15:46] And so I think it's not like an adversary kind of saying, I'm about to screw you over,

[00:15:51] but like, here's why I'm so great.

[00:15:53] You know, it's someone who has been an ally at times, you know, who, who probably was the

[00:15:57] more desirous of being an ally, right?

[00:15:58] Who was the kind of beta in the relationship who wanted more from her than she wanted from

[00:16:02] him.

[00:16:02] And so in that way, it's like, maybe she would be more generous to that because it's from

[00:16:09] someone she has a real relationship with and who's not the one who's necessarily like

[00:16:12] masterminding her rouser.

[00:16:13] But I just think that somebody who's been such a fighter, like Rachel, like, I think it's

[00:16:17] not going to just like sit there, like a bump on a log, like waiting for tribal council

[00:16:22] and going to hear like their story and not be fighting like hell to figure something out.

[00:16:28] Right.

[00:16:29] Yeah.

[00:16:29] Yeah.

[00:16:30] Well, it certainly was, um, it was really interesting.

[00:16:32] I mean, I think it's worth, it's worth trying.

[00:16:34] Right.

[00:16:34] Because what Andy knows is that the jury didn't expect his game.

[00:16:39] And do you feel like that you could, you like, do you wish that there might've been

[00:16:43] somebody like, okay, like, let me like sit Taj down, uh, before we go to tribal council

[00:16:49] and then I'm going to explain like what I did and that, you know, somebody could be

[00:16:53] my advocate.

[00:16:54] Yeah.

[00:16:54] I mean, not her specifically, cause I think she was pretty pissed, but like Aaron Lobdell

[00:16:57] or something, you know?

[00:16:58] Yeah.

[00:16:59] I mean, you know, Hey, I'm so sorry to you.

[00:17:00] I mean, I see that as a world that's, that's good.

[00:17:05] I mean, Andy was in such an interesting position in this game because it seemed like no matter

[00:17:09] what he did, he could not get the jury to change his perception of him.

[00:17:13] They had, they had locked in this idea.

[00:17:15] He's a flipper.

[00:17:16] You know, maybe it was based, it was probably largely like, you know, initiated at that

[00:17:19] first challenge.

[00:17:20] And it was probably reinforced by some of his erratic behavior.

[00:17:25] And he leaned into it also.

[00:17:26] Yeah.

[00:17:26] Yeah.

[00:17:27] I mean, he talked about that, how he played up that perception of him, but that, and as

[00:17:31] you said in your, in your exit with him, like that gave him a lot of room to maneuver,

[00:17:33] but by the end, when you're nothing you're doing is changing your perception.

[00:17:37] Like it's interesting because it kind of does incentivize him to go like bigger and crazier

[00:17:42] and bigger and crazier.

[00:17:43] And yet nothing was working.

[00:17:44] I mean, that's so frustrating.

[00:17:46] You know, we talked a lot about, I think it was last season, right?

[00:17:48] Where Jeff at the very start said, one of you cannot win this game no matter what you

[00:17:52] do.

[00:17:52] And I felt like Andy was in that spot, this game where it's like nothing he's doing is, is

[00:17:57] allowing him to win.

[00:17:58] And so he gets to try it.

[00:17:59] He's like zanier and zanier tactics.

[00:18:01] And like, honestly, I think this is not a bad one for someone who's in that spot of like

[00:18:05] knowing that the jury does not perceive them.

[00:18:07] Well, like why not try?

[00:18:09] Was this, uh, the best case scenario for Andy to go from where he was that we talked about

[00:18:15] him all season of like, okay, he's going to the end and the jury is not going to ultimately

[00:18:19] see his game.

[00:18:21] And he's going to be maybe zero vote finalist or one vote finalist.

[00:18:25] And people are going to say, well, why didn't he would, didn't win?

[00:18:27] Why didn't he win?

[00:18:28] But the jury is not going to see it that way.

[00:18:30] And then he was sort of like, has like this Icarus like, uh, ascent.

[00:18:34] And did he fly too close to the sun in that he got Rachel to recognize that he was a threat?

[00:18:41] Yeah, that's fun.

[00:18:42] I mean, you're right.

[00:18:42] Like he was never going to win at the end.

[00:18:44] So at least getting voted out as a threat, like, cause wouldn't that, that is sort of

[00:18:48] what we all predicted for Andy, right?

[00:18:49] Like getting dragged to the finals and this position and like getting no votes and everyone's

[00:18:55] like show tells him why, how much he sucks at the end.

[00:18:57] And that would be kind of a really disappointing end, right?

[00:19:00] Because he's done so much.

[00:19:01] He's tried so hard.

[00:19:03] There's finally like earn being a threat.

[00:19:05] You're right.

[00:19:05] Like this is the ideal scenario.

[00:19:06] And then, you know, perfectly positioned to be on survivor 50.

[00:19:09] Like couldn't, couldn't be better.

[00:19:10] Yeah.

[00:19:11] Um, no doubter for, uh, a returning season you feel.

[00:19:15] Oh, I mean, you've got to, I mean, he's really exactly who you want.

[00:19:19] I know you said it perfectly in your interview with him, that he's someone who was both thought

[00:19:23] about the game strategically.

[00:19:24] He, he also showed a lot of emotion.

[00:19:27] Well, one thing that I don't think any, you know, a lot of people have talked about is

[00:19:29] he always, and maybe I've talked about this endlessly, um, you know, seem to have a really

[00:19:33] good attitude, you know, around camp in his dealings with other people.

[00:19:37] He seemed to always be positive and smiling and people would be like, Andy, everyone hates

[00:19:41] you.

[00:19:41] You suck.

[00:19:41] And he's like, oh yeah, thanks for letting me know that, you know, appreciate, appreciate

[00:19:44] the perspective.

[00:19:45] You know, he's like really maintained, um, a pretty upbeat perspective.

[00:19:48] And, you know, he had great like head gestures and weird looks at tribal council and just the

[00:19:54] whole thing was great.

[00:19:55] Yeah.

[00:19:55] He never got too down.

[00:19:56] Like he sort of like, uh, had, uh, moments where that things were, were not going his way,

[00:20:01] but you know, he was like, uh, you know, overjoyed to be there.

[00:20:05] And I think that that, uh, really came through and, you know, uh, had this very fun ride, uh,

[00:20:11] throughout the show.

[00:20:11] So I think we will certainly see more of Andy.

[00:20:15] Uh, that's what Genevieve though.

[00:20:17] Okay.

[00:20:17] Yeah.

[00:20:17] And Genevieve ends up, uh, going out here.

[00:20:20] Did you think it was going to be Genevieve at the final five?

[00:20:23] Or do you think it was going to be Sam?

[00:20:24] Oh, I mean, I assumed it was going to be Genevieve.

[00:20:26] Like all like the will they or won't they pile votes on Genevieve was just absolutely

[00:20:30] insane.

[00:20:31] Um, and that had to be kind of a misdirect from production, right?

[00:20:33] I mean, I assume that they had decided, Hey, either way, idle or no, we're going to pile

[00:20:38] votes on her, you know?

[00:20:39] And if it's not her, like, who's it going to be like, you know, and there was like some

[00:20:44] big question of who Teenie was voting for.

[00:20:46] I assume that Teenie was trying to protect against the possibility of the idle was real and that

[00:20:50] they were the other vote, right?

[00:20:52] Which seemed likely that it was going to be Teenie who would be voted out.

[00:20:55] If not, I mean, if Genevieve chose to not vote Sam.

[00:20:57] So I guess it was sort of a defensive vote and they were trying to figure out like, does

[00:21:00] this make the most sense?

[00:21:01] Like, you know, you're always counting numbers.

[00:21:03] And from our perspective, of course, we see obviously Rachel and Sue are voting for Genevieve,

[00:21:07] but like maybe from Teenie's perspective, that wasn't so obvious.

[00:21:10] Yeah.

[00:21:10] You know, Teenie, we know that Teenie thinks that they are a potential endgame threat.

[00:21:14] Like, we've seen that.

[00:21:15] So maybe you think that, hey, like, Rachel and Sue are going to just mess me up this time.

[00:21:21] There's been so many, you know.

[00:21:23] Yeah.

[00:21:24] The Teenie story, though, for me is so confusing because I feel like even last night we had a

[00:21:28] whole reset of like, oh, here we go.

[00:21:31] Teenie has had it with Genevieve's crap.

[00:21:34] And this is it.

[00:21:35] This is finally going to be Teenie's revenge on Genevieve.

[00:21:40] And then Teenie voted for Sam.

[00:21:43] Yeah.

[00:21:45] Very.

[00:21:47] I mean, ultimately, Teenie was voting against Genevieve, right?

[00:21:50] That was just a protective vote.

[00:21:51] And I'm sure we don't know that.

[00:21:53] I think so.

[00:21:54] Why did Teenie take so long in the voting booth?

[00:21:56] That's a mystery.

[00:21:57] I don't think Teenie was really.

[00:21:58] Jeff said, okay, Teenie, you ready to vote?

[00:22:00] Like, I am so ready.

[00:22:01] And then proceeded to take forever in the voting booth.

[00:22:05] Can I just say one thing?

[00:22:06] So remember the confessional that really, you know, Teenie's bag burnt in the fire.

[00:22:13] And Teenie holds up the bag and says, yeah, this is it.

[00:22:16] This is the moment that this bag represents the fire that has been lit under me since that

[00:22:26] point.

[00:22:27] Teenie has only voted correctly for Kyle.

[00:22:31] Teenie is one for four.

[00:22:33] He got one.

[00:22:34] Good.

[00:22:34] You know, good for Teenie.

[00:22:35] One vote.

[00:22:36] Since that moment.

[00:22:37] Yeah.

[00:22:37] And were there any correct votes prior to that?

[00:22:39] There were.

[00:22:40] There were.

[00:22:41] I mean, Teenie was like, I did look at this.

[00:22:44] I mean, in the beginning of the merge, Teenie, you know, but Teenie got, got told, like, Teenie

[00:22:50] was in on the Rome vote, got told late in the game on the Sam and Sierra split, got

[00:22:54] told late in the game on the Saul vote.

[00:22:57] So I got told, you know, was it got told about the Gabe vote?

[00:23:01] But I don't think it was great.

[00:23:02] Like, I'm sure that Teenie's plan was to vote.

[00:23:06] I really believe that it was whether, like, that they were calculating, okay, assuming

[00:23:10] Genevieve plays an idol, if these two votes are going there, you know, is Genevieve going

[00:23:14] to vote for Sam?

[00:23:15] Are Sam and Genevieve going to vote together?

[00:23:16] If Genevieve votes for Sam and Sam votes for me, you know, like, it's just like, or

[00:23:20] Genevieve votes for me and Sam votes for me.

[00:23:22] There's all these scenarios running.

[00:23:23] And it seems like very straightforward from our perspective, because we know where people's

[00:23:27] votes are going.

[00:23:27] We know that Genevieve and Sam are voting for each other.

[00:23:29] We know that, you know, that Genevieve's idol is not real.

[00:23:31] But, you know, when you're out there and there's four other people and each one of

[00:23:37] them could vote a multitude of different ways.

[00:23:41] And you don't know if there's an idol that's going to change everything.

[00:23:43] Like, there's a lot of scenarios to run through.

[00:23:45] So I give Teenie a lot of grace here.

[00:23:46] Okay.

[00:23:47] It's a good question for Teenie for next week.

[00:23:49] Can we just talk about Genevieve's return?

[00:23:52] Like, a lot has been talked about Andy's returnee prospects.

[00:23:55] What do you think about Genevieve, the returnee?

[00:23:57] I think Genevieve is competitive.

[00:23:58] You know, people love Genevieve.

[00:24:00] She was a very strategic player.

[00:24:02] Also, a lot of goofy looks.

[00:24:04] Yeah.

[00:24:04] You know, very fun, you know.

[00:24:06] Fun presence on camera.

[00:24:08] Fun presence on camera.

[00:24:09] I definitely think Genevieve is viable.

[00:24:10] I don't think she's a lock.

[00:24:11] But I would have said, I did say Carolyn was a lock.

[00:24:14] And apparently that's not the case.

[00:24:15] Yeah.

[00:24:15] I think that, you know, that's a complicated situation there.

[00:24:19] Who do you think might be in the same sort of category as Genevieve?

[00:24:24] Is there anybody else from the new era that's sort of like in her archetype?

[00:24:29] Yeah.

[00:24:30] That's a really interesting question.

[00:24:32] I think she's kind of a unique player.

[00:24:33] I don't think there's like a Genevieve on every season.

[00:24:36] Right.

[00:24:37] Well, characterize what is her archetype?

[00:24:39] So she is a charismatic professional woman who kind of has like this like sharky game player in her that's willing to, you know, make big moves.

[00:24:54] And also like has this, you know, social game that she sort of feels weird about using.

[00:25:01] That's probably more, you know, unique to her personal story.

[00:25:04] But I don't I'm trying to think of maybe the chat might have it like, oh, like who else in the new era might you consider?

[00:25:13] Like, I think she might be kind of an inspired pick to come back.

[00:25:16] Yeah.

[00:25:17] I'm looking at I'm looking at, you know, I'm kind of going through the different casts and sort of looking for my who might be an interesting parallel and not really coming up with someone obvious.

[00:25:28] I mean, is that like is that Franny at all?

[00:25:31] I mean, not really like is there a Franny Genevieve?

[00:25:34] I think that I could see it a little bit, but I think that I don't know.

[00:25:42] Franny to me feels like that she was a little bit more, you know, fun and goofy.

[00:25:49] And I feel like that, you know, here we have Genevieve who's just like a little bit more like has like a little bit more of like a killer instinct.

[00:25:57] Ellie?

[00:25:59] Well, I think I think I think that Ellie is probably not deep into consideration.

[00:26:04] Ellie would be a great returning, though.

[00:26:05] I think that's if that's true, that's a mistake.

[00:26:07] I think there was some kind of like second chances season.

[00:26:10] If they end up doing that at some point down the road, I think that Ellie would be a really good pick to come back.

[00:26:13] That was my winner pick for that season.

[00:26:15] Yeah, I mean, it was a great rival.

[00:26:17] Her and Gabler come back.

[00:26:18] Oh, my gosh, I would love to see that.

[00:26:21] Yeah, I guess Hannah in the chest.

[00:26:23] Emily is another person who and I think.

[00:26:26] Yeah, Emily and Genevieve, I think, are a little bit different.

[00:26:31] Like Emily, I think, had a little bit more of like the Andy journey for the season.

[00:26:35] I don't think that people necessarily were intimidated so much by Emily until she kind of and similar to Andy.

[00:26:42] She kind of like, you know, ends up like talking up one of her moves and then ends up putting herself really on people's radar.

[00:26:49] So, yeah, I think that those are probably good picks.

[00:26:54] Yeah.

[00:26:54] And Emily was someone who also struggled with like how much emotion to show or not show.

[00:26:59] I mean, it's hard because every person is a unique snowflake.

[00:27:02] Yes, Stephen.

[00:27:03] So for Genevieve and Sam, I was very sympathetic to them.

[00:27:08] I feel like is there anything that they could have done in this scenario where it's really like a worst case scenario for them where Rachel ends up winning the immunity.

[00:27:17] Sue has an idol.

[00:27:18] Like, what can they do?

[00:27:20] Yeah.

[00:27:20] And what a crazy immunity, which it was so close so many times.

[00:27:23] It's wild that truly like all of, you know, we're not we're talking people are talking is Rachel one of the best winners, you know, of all time or of the new era.

[00:27:31] And like truly she was five seconds away from losing.

[00:27:35] You know, it's just wild how much how much chance and plays into this and randomness.

[00:27:42] What was the question?

[00:27:43] So for Genevieve and Sam that this was really kind of like a no win scenario.

[00:27:48] Like there was no like there was no play other other than I don't even know.

[00:27:55] Like other than getting Rachel or Sue to somehow vote out teeny in this spot.

[00:28:00] There's no way.

[00:28:01] I like your I like your like question to Genevieve because I had the same thought.

[00:28:05] Like when she told teeny that she had like she didn't have an idol if she was trying to like get teeny like doubled out that, you know, oh, Genevieve would never tell me the truth.

[00:28:16] It's, you know, so she must have to great effect.

[00:28:20] It was just nobody believes the frustrating thing as a viewer.

[00:28:23] It's like, wait, there's still no way this could work.

[00:28:25] Yeah.

[00:28:25] Yeah.

[00:28:26] I mean, it did seem like it might have paid off a little bit.

[00:28:31] But in that case, Sam is going home, right?

[00:28:33] They're not both advanced.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:35] Do you think if they both made it to four that they would turn on each other there?

[00:28:40] Or do you think they're kind of like, you know, is this a real alliance in the old school sense of the word?

[00:28:45] You know, I don't know if we really saw, you know, Sam or Genevieve ever talk about the other as like a potential threat to their game.

[00:28:53] I think that they would have been sort of content to duke it out based off of like where they both had been.

[00:29:00] So, you know, probably, you know, a good question that we can ask Sam about next week of like, like, did you ever have a thought about getting out Genevieve?

[00:29:08] But I think he was just trying to advance, advance, advance.

[00:29:11] And maybe it would have been a decision to make, you know, if he has the opportunity to potentially decide who goes into the fire.

[00:29:17] But that's a great segue to talk about Sam and where he's at, Stephen, because I really I thought that this going into that two hour episode, I thought, OK, Sam and Genevieve go home.

[00:29:28] And Andy's in the final four with Rachel and Sue and Tini was not expecting Sam to still be here at the end of these two hours.

[00:29:35] But now, yeah, here he is.

[00:29:37] And he has a shot.

[00:29:40] Yeah, well, it's so interesting because Sam in the pre-merge was one of the most dominant players.

[00:29:46] Right.

[00:29:47] We were certainly talking about him a lot.

[00:29:48] You know, he he was the glue guy on Gata.

[00:29:51] He was you know, there was a great scene when he finds the idol and he gets like everybody involved.

[00:29:55] We saw so much of Sam's strategic gameplay there.

[00:29:59] So much of his thinking.

[00:30:00] And in the merge, he's really kind of hit this sort of Owen, Jake O'Kane story of like the guy who just can't pull it out.

[00:30:11] You know, the guy who just can't get that.

[00:30:13] I mean, I see a world where Sam is sitting there at the end and, you know, it maybe is the runner up.

[00:30:18] You know, maybe he gets a zero.

[00:30:20] I mean, I don't think he gets zero votes.

[00:30:21] Right.

[00:30:21] Sierra's got to vote for Sam.

[00:30:22] Right.

[00:30:22] In this spot.

[00:30:23] But yeah, I don't know.

[00:30:24] I think we will lose to Rachel, but it's also hard to imagine the scenario where he gets to the end with Rachel.

[00:30:30] I don't I don't think that's that crazy.

[00:30:31] Like, I think there's a world where Sam gets to the end.

[00:30:34] I mean, there's any number of scenarios.

[00:30:35] You know, he wins the final immunity and puts Rachel and Teenie in fire, hoping that Rachel somehow messes up, but not wanting to jeopardize his own spot.

[00:30:41] I mean, that's a that's a I think that he is the guy who I think is going to like risk it for the biscuit.

[00:30:46] I think that he is going to put Rachel and he's going to take Rachel on into the fire.

[00:30:52] By the way, just going back to Sam and Genevieve in a deleted scene, he told Genevieve he was planning on beating her in fire.

[00:30:58] So if he's thinking about doing that with Genevieve, I think he would certainly think about doing that with Rachel.

[00:31:02] I think the interesting scenario is what if Sam wins the final four scenario of challenge takes on Rachel in fire and loses?

[00:31:10] We've never seen that before.

[00:31:12] Yeah, that'd be so sad.

[00:31:13] I mean, but it sounds like it's like a very big possibility.

[00:31:15] But I'm not totally out on the idea that that he sends Teenie in thinking to himself like I am guaranteed a spot in the final three.

[00:31:24] And this way, like I at least complete my case.

[00:31:27] You know, he's counting votes.

[00:31:28] I think I've got a good relationship with, you know, everyone.

[00:31:32] I'm not totally you think it's an onstarter, but I think it's viable.

[00:31:35] I would love to make a know-it-alls bet on that if Sam wins the final four immunity challenge that he would not.

[00:31:44] I think he would definitely send himself into it and would never send Teenie of all people up against Rachel to go to the slaughter and then be made a fool.

[00:31:53] Like prop up Rachel and then also be made a fool out of.

[00:31:56] Like that's what happened with Xander going back into Survivor 41 where it's like, OK, I'm going to send, you know, Erica and, you know, got to prop up Erica.

[00:32:06] And people were, Ricard was like, why wouldn't you, if you thought she was the biggest threat, why wouldn't you go up against her?

[00:32:11] Yeah, I mean, it does seem like.

[00:32:13] I'm sorry, he took Erica and brought Deshawn and put Deshawn and Heather into the fire.

[00:32:20] Yeah, it does seem like there's a lot of parallels between Xander and Sam, honestly.

[00:32:25] Like you can see a lot of, you know, they're similar archetypes.

[00:32:28] I don't think they're the same.

[00:32:29] I think, you know, I mean, I think Xander is probably younger, right?

[00:32:32] Sam seems a lot more strategic.

[00:32:33] You know, he has probably a much bigger influence on the game overall, certainly with his pre-merge drive.

[00:32:38] But, you know, you can see a world where they're in that same spot of having all the right credentials, getting there to the end, and then, you know, being over, you know, not being chosen.

[00:32:47] And because they're just against a dominant force.

[00:32:50] I'm not out on them being there together.

[00:32:51] You know, I think, you know, obviously whoever wins is taking Sue.

[00:32:55] You know, that's a no-brainer.

[00:32:56] But maybe.

[00:32:57] You don't think that, yeah, Sue is the good fire person.

[00:33:01] If anything, if you were going to do that, if you were Sam and you won the challenge and you were worried about.

[00:33:06] Oh, let's do it.

[00:33:06] Yeah.

[00:33:07] Put Sue up against Rachel.

[00:33:08] That's not a crazy idea.

[00:33:10] Actually, that's a viable world, right?

[00:33:12] Where Sam chooses Sue, who's the fire tender.

[00:33:14] Fire bug, yeah, covered in soot.

[00:33:15] Go against Rachel.

[00:33:17] That's a world.

[00:33:17] That would be the move if you were going to do that, but not to say.

[00:33:21] And there's a world where Sue wins that.

[00:33:23] Yeah.

[00:33:24] So, I mean.

[00:33:25] I have a feeling Rachel is just a sharpshooter when it comes to the fire also.

[00:33:29] That would probably be a pretty good matchup, Rachel versus Sue.

[00:33:32] Those are probably the two best people.

[00:33:34] Although Sam seems to think he's pretty good.

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:37] I don't think it's crazy.

[00:33:38] I can see Sam losing.

[00:33:39] I mean, Sam's going to be an Austin kind of character.

[00:33:41] Yeah.

[00:33:41] And I do think that there is a very plausible scenario where Sam wins the final four challenge,

[00:33:48] beats Rachel in fire, and goes on to win the season.

[00:33:50] I think that that is the most likely scenario is Rachel is the winner of the season.

[00:33:55] Right.

[00:33:56] But yeah.

[00:33:57] The other possible scenario is that Sam is the winner.

[00:33:59] There is a multiverse where that happens.

[00:34:02] And if we could talk a little bit about the edit.

[00:34:05] You know, you were talking about this quite a bit last night where, you know, the show

[00:34:10] really, you know, especially in the new era, likes to build somebody up big right before

[00:34:16] their fall.

[00:34:17] And thinking back to just over the overall arc of the season, you know, Rachel has been

[00:34:22] really, you know, has emerged as one of like maybe behind Andy, like the main character

[00:34:28] of the show over these last couple of weeks, but was very under edited in the pre-merge

[00:34:35] where Sam has been, you know, especially in the start of the season, we get like a real

[00:34:40] formal introduction to Sam as a character.

[00:34:43] Yeah.

[00:34:44] I mean, Rachel was there in episode one, right?

[00:34:46] We got some of that tension between like Andy and Rachel.

[00:34:48] We got a lot of Rachel's perspective actually in the first episode, much more so than we

[00:34:52] did in the later part of Gata.

[00:34:55] You know, but it's interesting.

[00:34:57] We've heard a lot about Rachel as a threat, you know, in a way that more than we've seen,

[00:35:02] you know, right at the merge.

[00:35:03] Oh, Rachel's a threat.

[00:35:04] We got to get out Rachel.

[00:35:05] She's the ringleader.

[00:35:06] And like at the time it was kind of like, is she like she is like, I didn't know that,

[00:35:10] you know, we're being told she's a threat.

[00:35:12] And apparently that's a common way that Survivor edits these under the radar winners is that

[00:35:17] they are repeatedly told they're a threat.

[00:35:20] I do think we've seen a lot more of that recently.

[00:35:22] The thing that is, you know, we often see the winner kind of emerges the point of view

[00:35:27] character in the finale.

[00:35:29] Like we get many more confessionals from their perspective.

[00:35:31] I really felt that with Rachel last night.

[00:35:34] That said, like, is that the real?

[00:35:35] Is that the real finale?

[00:35:36] The thing that like the thing that flummoxes me is that like going as I was just saying

[00:35:40] at the start, like going into next week, there's like no ambivalence or no question.

[00:35:43] Like if Rachel gets there, she's winning.

[00:35:44] She's the best at fire.

[00:35:45] She's going to hands down win in a final three.

[00:35:47] Like, doesn't that like remove all the drama from like watching?

[00:35:50] And maybe they'll build up some other person as like, oh, here comes Sam.

[00:35:53] But but Rachel slays him at the last minute, which is a very viable possibility.

[00:35:58] But yeah, it's hard.

[00:35:59] But if it's a runaway, like that's what you do.

[00:36:01] Right.

[00:36:01] If Rachel wins in a in a, you know, shut out, then then you would you would have to build

[00:36:05] her up as I would say the only other like nagging thought for me is I feel like that just

[00:36:10] Rachel, like as a character, like do did we learn anything about her as a person over the

[00:36:15] course of the season? It's like Rachel is a badass.

[00:36:17] Rachel's good at the game.

[00:36:18] Rachel is a sharky player.

[00:36:20] She is like a great strategist and, you know, don't sleep on Rachel.

[00:36:25] But like has there been anything about her, you know, personal other than, you know, she

[00:36:30] really wanted rice.

[00:36:32] But other than that, like I feel like it's been just only only like Rachel, the gamer.

[00:36:38] I don't think that really there's been any sort of like talk about her like outside

[00:36:42] of the game.

[00:36:43] Yeah, no, I think that's right.

[00:36:44] And that's I mean, that's how it used to be.

[00:36:46] That's how I used to do it.

[00:36:47] Survivor.

[00:36:50] This episode of Rob is a podcast is sponsored by Amazfit, makers of the T-Rex 3 smartwatch.

[00:36:57] Now, any survivor player worth their salt is looking to up their game.

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[00:37:22] not hour.

[00:37:23] I'm not supposed to say this, but some of these other watches, you're lucky if you get 27

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[00:37:28] 27 days, that's longer than a season of Survivor.

[00:37:33] And it tracks all these different activities, whether I'm walking, it picks it up automatically.

[00:37:38] There are things that it can track that I would never do like skydiving or snorkeling.

[00:37:44] It's amazing all the things that it can track.

[00:37:47] Plus, it has an AI assistant that also you wear right on your wrist.

[00:37:52] And what I also love is that it looks great too.

[00:37:55] It looks like a real watch and not like I've got this black square that I'm just wearing

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[00:38:28] Okay, let's talk about Ram's shirt.

[00:38:32] Oh, sorry.

[00:38:33] Yes, Sam's shirt.

[00:38:34] In the challenge, why are you wearing a shirt in a swimming challenge?

[00:38:37] Oh, okay.

[00:38:38] These are the observations that only you pick up.

[00:38:41] Well, I tweeted about it, but like it varies.

[00:38:44] So apparently Sam was sick is the rationale I was told.

[00:38:47] That's why he would wear it.

[00:38:48] I don't know why being sick would make you want to wear a shirt.

[00:38:51] You'd want to keep your clothes dry if you were sick.

[00:38:53] See, I wasn't sure if he actually was sick or he was saying like, hey, don't pick me for

[00:38:57] the challenge.

[00:38:58] He tweeted that he had a huge, a crazy fever.

[00:39:00] Yeah.

[00:39:00] But like, even though like in that scenario, like you keep your shirt dry, you take your

[00:39:04] shirt off.

[00:39:04] I jump in the water, like I have less drag, you know, every, every, I just don't know.

[00:39:08] Maybe because he was feverish, he wasn't thinking clearly.

[00:39:10] Like that's the only thing I can, I can, um, you know, because those challenges, they come

[00:39:13] down to a second.

[00:39:14] So we're going to shirt while you're swimming.

[00:39:15] You know, that's, that's hard.

[00:39:16] Okay.

[00:39:17] Yeah.

[00:39:18] You, uh, you know, had wanted to talk about, uh, Rachel's potential legacy.

[00:39:23] Uh, I had said on last week's survivor know-it-alls that I felt like, uh, coming out of that episode,

[00:39:29] uh, even though it was not Rachel's episode, I had felt that if I had said that if Rachel

[00:39:35] wins the game, that there's a case to be made that Rachel is the best player in the new

[00:39:41] era, um, there were the, some pushback in the, I love to read the comments, read all

[00:39:47] the comments.

[00:39:48] Okay.

[00:39:49] Uh, there was some pushback on that.

[00:39:50] And then I kind of felt like that after this episode, these, this two hour episode, I kind

[00:39:57] of, I felt, I felt, you know, like, Hey, like that take is, is aging, like fine wine.

[00:40:03] And I felt like she's the best player permanently.

[00:40:07] I don't agree with that.

[00:40:09] I don't, I don't agree that even if after a win, I don't know.

[00:40:11] I don't think that Rachel is the greatest survivor player of all time, but I think that there

[00:40:15] is a very strong case to be made, but I've been seeing a lot of pushback about Rachel

[00:40:19] as a player.

[00:40:20] And I think that that has been based around a couple of things.

[00:40:23] Uh, if I, if I could bring up the arguments against Rachel and then we can sort of talk

[00:40:28] them through, um, she's been blindsided three times.

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:34] Um, so I don't know.

[00:40:37] I feel like that in terms of the new era and what, and what like matters in terms of the

[00:40:43] new era, I think the people have, uh, she's been blindsided.

[00:40:46] She has, she directed a vote.

[00:40:48] Has she has, is she the leader of an Alliance?

[00:40:52] But I feel like that in the new era, if you are playing optimally being the head of an alliance

[00:40:58] and directing votes tends to get you voted out of the game almost instantly.

[00:41:05] And so I think that Rachel is really the perfect player to play in this particular era of survivor.

[00:41:12] She has not dominated, uh, the votes, but she's had the, you know, this amazing, uh, survival

[00:41:19] instinct and this, uh, you know, superpower to be able to, you know, feel the, the pressure

[00:41:26] and to be able to have the resources to be able to move out of the way from any sort

[00:41:31] of trouble.

[00:41:32] And she's been able to pull together alliances, uh, when she's needed to.

[00:41:36] And, um, there's been a lot to be made about her luck.

[00:41:40] I think that she has been both lucky and unlucky in the new era.

[00:41:44] But as, as far as like a skillset, I think that Rachel is just, uh, like she's dealt with

[00:41:49] a lot of adversity that some of the other people she's being compared to may not have had

[00:41:53] to deal with at all.

[00:41:54] Right.

[00:41:55] I mean, the obvious comparison is someone like D right.

[00:41:58] Who played a much more dominant game.

[00:41:59] And I would say, okay, you go.

[00:42:02] I was going to say like, but then did D did not have to deal with that type of adversity

[00:42:06] because her tribe was dominant.

[00:42:07] She was on an alliance that, that, that stuck together really beautifully.

[00:42:10] I mean, of course she was a part of that, um, you know, to your point about having bad

[00:42:14] luck and then having good luck, you know, even that episode where she was saved by Saul's

[00:42:19] advantage, she had gotten extremely unlucky with that tribe swap or not the tribe.

[00:42:24] The split, I guess the merge split, you know, where she was the one person on the outs of

[00:42:28] a whole group of, of two coos.

[00:42:31] So like she got super unlucky and then, and then she got lucky.

[00:42:33] And, and, and in fact, her luck was more based on her personality, right?

[00:42:37] Because Saul perceived her as someone he wanted to work with.

[00:42:39] So that's like based on who she is as a player, as opposed to the bad luck that put her in that

[00:42:43] situation, which was completely out of her control and was just random.

[00:42:46] So that, that one, I actually kind of give like the check to Rachel instead of luck.

[00:42:49] Um, Shannon Gus had a great point, which I really liked was, which was that she's one

[00:42:54] of the best like underdog players.

[00:42:56] And I think that kind of helped me see, you know, cause like the best of the new era, I

[00:43:00] find like, that's a challenging one for me.

[00:43:02] Like, you know, you look at someone like Charlie last season, who I thought was so subtle, so

[00:43:06] great at shifting the votes exactly where he wanted them.

[00:43:08] And in my mind, you know, being able to get the votes to go where you want them is the

[00:43:12] distinctive survivor skill.

[00:43:13] But to your point, like that's a, that's not that helpful in the new era.

[00:43:17] I was talking about it with Sophie Clark and she was like, you know, like different players

[00:43:20] have different skill sets.

[00:43:21] You know, I, I, you know, from my perspective, like that is the survivor skill, but other players

[00:43:26] have different skills and she maximizes hers.

[00:43:28] So I thought Shannon's point of like, she's like one of the best or the best.

[00:43:32] Underdog players, like of this particular archetype with this particular skill set.

[00:43:36] I like that.

[00:43:36] I can co-sign that.

[00:43:38] So one of the things that's so impressive to me about Rachel is that a lot of these other

[00:43:42] people that we're talking about, like nobody was ever trying to get them out.

[00:43:46] Um, and that Rachel has been able to evade the people, like people have been gunning for

[00:43:52] Rachel for quite some time.

[00:43:54] And whether it's in, in the way of, you know, uh, you know, working with a different group,

[00:44:01] she's won three individual immunity challenges.

[00:44:03] You know, Kyle was sort of like blocking the individual immunities and now that Kyle's

[00:44:07] been gone, she's won three out of four individual immunity challenges.

[00:44:11] Uh, she played the idol.

[00:44:12] She went on the journey.

[00:44:14] She got the advantage.

[00:44:15] So, uh, she's really been having to play a game where it's very, it's much easier to

[00:44:21] play the game where nobody is coming for you.

[00:44:24] And yet I could sort of sit back and I don't have a lot of heat on me and I can sort of

[00:44:27] like direct things.

[00:44:28] Sure.

[00:44:29] That that's a skillset also, but I think what Rachel is doing is so impressive because that

[00:44:33] she's had to just be like tap dancing through, uh, this whole post merge and she's done

[00:44:39] it masterfully.

[00:44:41] And even pre-merge.

[00:44:42] I mean, you know, to see when, when Anika was blindsided, you know, her whole alliance

[00:44:46] structure immediately crumbled and she's now, she's like going into this merge with

[00:44:49] people who she doesn't trust anymore and is still able to, you know, work through those

[00:44:53] relationships.

[00:44:54] Yeah.

[00:44:54] I know she has played a fantastic game and I don't, I, you know, the, the best of the

[00:44:58] new era.

[00:44:58] Suddenly I'm like, well, you know, it's hard.

[00:45:01] It's different circumstances.

[00:45:02] Charlie didn't win.

[00:45:03] Like does winning, like make you better than, than the loser?

[00:45:06] If, if, if Charlie only lost because this is, this is assuming that Rachel goes on to

[00:45:11] win the game.

[00:45:13] You've, you also have to like play it out forward where Rachel probably either wins another

[00:45:18] immunity challenge and, or makes the fire also.

[00:45:22] Right.

[00:45:22] I think that there's a chance that, you know, if she's sitting there with teeny and Sue,

[00:45:26] she could win eight zero.

[00:45:28] Well, that's what I was saying.

[00:45:28] Yeah.

[00:45:29] I think there is a possibility that it's a shutout.

[00:45:30] Like, because yeah, I mean, you know, who's, especially if she wins, you know, either she

[00:45:35] wins fire or she wins an immunity challenge in that scenario.

[00:45:38] And then she's tied for the most female immunity challenges ever.

[00:45:41] Right.

[00:45:41] Which I always want people to at least tie the record.

[00:45:43] It's so exciting to like see that someone gets like co-holder record.

[00:45:45] And she's, uh, you know, it's, it's interesting that like for, for the women, it's just four,

[00:45:50] you know, it's, it's just like going back to the very first season of the show.

[00:45:53] That's the ceiling.

[00:45:54] Yeah.

[00:45:54] For whatever reason.

[00:45:56] And guys, it's been five, right?

[00:45:57] No, no guy has passed five.

[00:45:58] And that's been, that's held for, for really long time.

[00:46:01] Yeah.

[00:46:02] I hope they never break it.

[00:46:03] I hope that's always the record.

[00:46:04] I always want someone to, you know, you just want someone to like crash.

[00:46:06] You want to see history.

[00:46:08] Yeah.

[00:46:08] Um, but for Rachel, like it's been interesting because the, you know, people have had like, there's

[00:46:12] been a target on her back, but you know, I feel like, uh, that there's been like, for whatever

[00:46:18] reason, like Genevieve seems scarier to people.

[00:46:21] Like she was able to like, also like, uh, be recognized as a big threat, but also be able to

[00:46:28] hide in certain ways too.

[00:46:29] Right.

[00:46:30] Well, I mean, though, like, and to your point, like she won when she really needed to, right?

[00:46:35] Like with, you know, she was immune right before operation slash project Italy happened.

[00:46:41] And if she had not been, she would have gone home.

[00:46:42] So like that doesn't, that's not luck.

[00:46:44] Like she won, like she played, she was playing survivor there.

[00:46:46] You know, she, she did something that she needed to on survivor.

[00:46:49] Um, so like that, that, um, you know, it's to get those wins at key moments, certainly

[00:46:54] again, last night, um, to play, to have the, the perfect idol, you know, that she, that

[00:46:58] she found, you know, but playing it at the perfect moment again, like, yeah, it's,

[00:47:03] it's a really great game.

[00:47:04] I mean, she definitely has a really great game.

[00:47:05] Yeah.

[00:47:06] I've just been, uh, super impressed.

[00:47:07] I guess, you know, she has to finish the job.

[00:47:10] It's a different argument if, you know, uh, she ends up coming short.

[00:47:13] Like, I do think that getting the win, uh, you know, does, does mean something.

[00:47:18] Yeah.

[00:47:18] I don't know, but you don't need to tell me.

[00:47:20] Look at Charlie, you know, like, is Charlie a worse player because Maria didn't vote for

[00:47:24] him?

[00:47:25] Like, I think that if you were going to, you know, make, make this comparison and, you know,

[00:47:31] uh, Charlie got to the final three and ultimately, you know, didn't have the, the, the jury management

[00:47:37] or that the jury went sideways on Charlie.

[00:47:40] But I think that, and I think that we talked about it last season, that Charlie was playing

[00:47:44] one of the, one of the best games of the new era, but ultimately, you know, uh, we have

[00:47:49] to look at the results and you know, there, there, there was a, an issue there that ultimately

[00:47:53] it, it didn't work out for, for Charlie.

[00:47:56] So I think that sometimes there are things that, I mean, again, like you can argue that

[00:48:00] like, he didn't have a, you know, certainly with Charlie, you can say like, he didn't play

[00:48:03] up his, he didn't telegraph to the jury enough, you know, what, that, that he, he was making

[00:48:07] what he did, like you just said earlier in this podcast.

[00:48:09] But like, I do think there are things that work out against a player where it's like really

[00:48:13] outside their control.

[00:48:14] They could be playing a spectacular game and like, you know.

[00:48:17] Yeah.

[00:48:18] He also got unlucky with, um, that, you know, he needed to like Maria to not win a immunity

[00:48:23] when she happened to win, I think that she won like two in a row when he was planning

[00:48:27] to take her out.

[00:48:28] And then the time when, uh, it was the time to, uh, vote out Maria, like it was a little

[00:48:35] like muddied in terms of like, it wasn't like a clean shot that like, okay, Charlie got out

[00:48:41] Maria at this vote.

[00:48:42] It was sort of like a team group.

[00:48:44] Uh, we all got out, uh, we all got out Maria and then he had to sort of like pretend to

[00:48:49] like Maria was like, wanted to work with him on that vote.

[00:48:53] So, you know, no, I, yeah.

[00:48:54] And for sure.

[00:48:55] And like, but like, and it's true that, you know, it wasn't just Maria who didn't vote for

[00:48:59] Charlie, right?

[00:49:00] There were five people who didn't vote for Charlie and a lot, you have to put the onus

[00:49:03] of that on Charlie for not better telegraphing his game for not, you know, taking someone

[00:49:06] aside like Andy did and explaining what he, what he, what he, how he had played.

[00:49:11] He could have told Q the whole story.

[00:49:13] Yeah.

[00:49:14] He could have told Venus.

[00:49:15] I feel like Venus would have been, you know, I mean, not someone who they would have necessarily

[00:49:19] like put a lot of faith in it.

[00:49:20] Yes.

[00:49:21] Somebody who would have been quite persuasive with the jury.

[00:49:24] I'm sure.

[00:49:25] Yeah.

[00:49:26] Okay.

[00:49:26] Let me see.

[00:49:26] Anything else that you, uh, said that you tweeted out, uh, me and, uh, me and you, uh,

[00:49:32] Rob and me discussing our thoughts tomorrow about who is going to win this virus season.

[00:49:35] Uh, why are we tweetle D and tweetle dumb?

[00:49:37] Have we been way off on things?

[00:49:39] Well, we were off on Caroline and, and teeny being the potential winners here.

[00:49:42] I just wanted to like bring the tweetle D and tweetle dumb into it, you know, show that

[00:49:45] we could joke about that tweetle D and tweetle dumb.

[00:49:47] Yes.

[00:49:48] Okay.

[00:49:48] Um, the one thing we can talk about was it a mistake for Rachel to tell Sue about her

[00:49:54] idol at the start of the episode.

[00:49:56] Yeah.

[00:49:57] It's interesting.

[00:49:58] Um, that I think Rachel could not have imagined that Sue had her own idol, but I think that,

[00:50:06] um, for Rachel, and I don't know if this was sort of implied and, uh, Andy gave a threat

[00:50:11] that Rachel had made to him of like, Hey, if you lied to me one more time, me and Sue are

[00:50:15] not voting for you on the jury.

[00:50:17] And it's sort of like forced him into being truthful.

[00:50:19] I think with Sue for Rachel to tell Sue about her idol, it's like, by the way, Sue, if you

[00:50:24] tell anybody that I have my idol, I'm playing it and that I'm going to write your name

[00:50:30] down.

[00:50:30] Yeah.

[00:50:31] Yeah.

[00:50:32] Or they're going to split the vote and put the votes on you.

[00:50:36] Yeah.

[00:50:36] And I liked what Caroline said last, you know, I thought your interview with Caroline was,

[00:50:40] was really great.

[00:50:40] And I thought she had a lot of really astute insight.

[00:50:42] Did you think I was hung over when you talked to me on Thursday last week?

[00:50:46] I mean, your voice sounded scratchy.

[00:50:47] I don't know where you're, you know, I don't know if you had a headache or not.

[00:50:49] I don't know if you were like, you know, it sounded like you had been talking to people

[00:50:52] for multiple hours the previous night and maybe your voice was a little tired.

[00:50:55] It seems like a pretty good theory.

[00:50:58] Yeah.

[00:50:59] Um, and that you would probably add seven or eight, you know, shots of Patron.

[00:51:04] Pretty much.

[00:51:04] Yeah.

[00:51:05] I hadn't gone to bed yet.

[00:51:06] Yeah.

[00:51:06] Yeah.

[00:51:07] Um, sorry.

[00:51:07] I digress.

[00:51:08] Yeah.

[00:51:09] Um, but I thought she, she did a great interview with her.

[00:51:11] One of the things she said was, you know, you really, she really focused on speaking

[00:51:15] to people in their language.

[00:51:16] Right.

[00:51:16] You know, um, so she, you know, with, with Andy or someone like Sue, she really like spoke

[00:51:21] to them emotionally, you know, you know, connected with them on, on emotional levels in a way

[00:51:25] that, you know, where, and I think, you know, Rachel's obviously doing the same thing

[00:51:29] here with, with Sue, you know, she's connecting with her showing vulnerability, you know,

[00:51:34] airing.

[00:51:34] Um, something else Caroline said that I thought was really smart that I don't think I've ever

[00:51:37] heard articulated before was the idea of keeping threats around who are like you, you know,

[00:51:44] that like at a certain point in the game, people are looking to target certain types of players.

[00:51:49] So like, that's why she kept, um, she voted out Kyle over Genevieve was because Kyle was

[00:51:54] someone who was not like her, but Genevieve was kind of like a more intimidating version

[00:51:58] of her.

[00:51:59] So she kept like, if they were looking to vote out, you know, a strategic woman, you know,

[00:52:04] who was tall, you know, Genevieve would be the one they'd focus on and, and not, and

[00:52:07] not her.

[00:52:08] I thought that was very, it was clever.

[00:52:09] Okay.

[00:52:10] Yeah.

[00:52:10] Caroline, I think would be a very fun to talk to you on a longer podcast, uh, too.

[00:52:14] All right.

[00:52:14] Let's take some questions.

[00:52:16] Okay.

[00:52:17] How about from Phil Magoo, uh, would Sue beat teeny in a hypothetical final two?

[00:52:25] I think, I think Sue has votes.

[00:52:27] You know, I think there's a world where Caroline, you know, you could even like Caroline

[00:52:31] gave Kyle, I've, I've argued that Kyle could be a super.

[00:52:35] Kyle was no teeny fan.

[00:52:36] Yeah.

[00:52:37] He voted for teeny on the way out.

[00:52:38] That's right.

[00:52:38] Cause Kyle, Kyle really came out against.

[00:52:40] I think Rachel would vote for Sue.

[00:52:42] Yeah.

[00:52:42] And I think a lot of people feel like teeny has played the game very emotionally and also

[00:52:47] that they have, you know, like, like, um, who is it?

[00:52:50] Sam who said, if you want to get information out, you tell teeny and then it gets out to

[00:52:53] everybody.

[00:52:53] You know, I think that is their perception right now.

[00:52:57] And, and, um, not a beloved one.

[00:52:59] Yeah.

[00:52:59] Okay.

[00:53:00] Um, something else that came up last night and that I would love to get your take on

[00:53:04] that Sam got to go to vote and, uh, on the parchment, it said, uh, your vote has been

[00:53:09] blocked.

[00:53:09] So unless you have an extra vote, go back to your seat.

[00:53:12] Right.

[00:53:13] So what did you think about that mechanic of that?

[00:53:16] If Sam has an extra vote, his vote is blocked, but he can play the extra vote.

[00:53:21] I think that's fair.

[00:53:22] You think it's one block.

[00:53:23] You're not, it's not like a total block.

[00:53:25] I wasn't even thinking of that one vote.

[00:53:26] Yeah.

[00:53:27] Okay.

[00:53:28] All right.

[00:53:29] Yeah.

[00:53:29] It doesn't prevent you from voting.

[00:53:31] You just prevents you from, uh, having the one vote.

[00:53:34] Okay.

[00:53:35] All right.

[00:53:36] Um, let's see what, look at these, the questions we've got.

[00:53:40] I'm trying to see what we haven't talked about.

[00:53:42] Okay.

[00:53:43] Um, hmm.

[00:53:45] How much of the absence of the shot in the dark led to the honesty of Sam and Andy towards

[00:53:50] Rachel?

[00:53:50] Well, I will say that the shot in the dark would have been expired by this point.

[00:53:54] Oh, but do you feel like that?

[00:53:55] It changed, uh, the, they could have had the shot in the dark last week.

[00:53:59] The last time you can play it.

[00:54:00] I thought it was seven.

[00:54:01] The last time I thought it was seven.

[00:54:02] Oh, maybe you're right.

[00:54:03] Maybe you're right.

[00:54:03] Cause the odds are, are, are one in six.

[00:54:05] So maybe it's like always, I don't know.

[00:54:09] Um, question for the, for the chat, if it's a seven or six.

[00:54:12] Yeah.

[00:54:12] I mean, definitely like, you know, you're not telling anybody.

[00:54:15] I mean, that's what was good about the shot in the dark, right?

[00:54:17] Is it stops these kind of forthright, honest conversations from happening and leads to more

[00:54:22] duplicity.

[00:54:23] Okay.

[00:54:23] Uh, prayers and ponytails.

[00:54:25] Would Rachel put herself in fire?

[00:54:27] Do you see a scenario where Rachel puts herself into the fire?

[00:54:31] Like is she, but I don't think it's like, I mean, if you're Rachel and you think that

[00:54:35] you have it in the bag, why, why do that?

[00:54:37] Well, I'll, you know, Rachel, just to give some backstory, you mentioned Dom Abate, uh,

[00:54:43] and Dom Abate, uh, you know, uh, he is friendly with Rachel.

[00:54:48] I think that they were in like, uh, that they're both in like some like online poker playing

[00:54:53] group.

[00:54:53] Oh, interesting.

[00:54:54] I didn't know she was about that.

[00:54:55] They got started up around COVID.

[00:54:57] And so if Rachel is friends with Dom and the one thing that Dom was like raked over the

[00:55:05] Coles for was that, Oh, why didn't he put himself into fire?

[00:55:10] You know, you have like a Natalie Anderson, uh, not to say that, you know, uh, where people

[00:55:15] don't vote for Natalie, Natalie, why didn't you put yourself into the bar?

[00:55:18] Why didn't you take out Tony?

[00:55:19] That was different.

[00:55:20] Could the jury sit?

[00:55:21] Could Rachel be worried about like, Oh, there's no, there's no Tony, but it could Rachel be

[00:55:27] concerned that, Oh, if I don't take out Sam myself, now Sam makes the fire in front

[00:55:34] of the jury, it will Sam be propped up enough where that he's potentially going to steal

[00:55:40] the win.

[00:55:41] Can Sam, what if that happens?

[00:55:44] Can Sam win this jury?

[00:55:46] How about that question?

[00:55:47] Okay.

[00:55:49] Let's play this out.

[00:55:50] Okay.

[00:55:50] This is a world.

[00:55:52] Okay.

[00:55:52] So, so that Rachel says, you know what, Sue, you beat, go beat Sam in the fire and somehow

[00:55:59] Sam beats Sue in the fire.

[00:56:03] Okay.

[00:56:03] So the final three is Sam, Rachel and teeny.

[00:56:07] Yes.

[00:56:08] Okay.

[00:56:09] All right.

[00:56:09] And the jury is, okay.

[00:56:11] I've got it.

[00:56:12] Uh, the jury is, uh, Sierra.

[00:56:14] Um, Sierra is a vote for, uh, Sam.

[00:56:18] Okay.

[00:56:18] Yeah.

[00:56:19] Then after Sierra, it was Saul.

[00:56:23] Rachel or Sam.

[00:56:26] I think he's so happy.

[00:56:28] He looks so happy when, uh, Rachel did, did something and, and, and yes, Rachel turned

[00:56:33] on him, but I think he feels like that.

[00:56:35] That's like his, his co-win.

[00:56:38] Uh, or like Sam was the one who told him, Hey, it's going to be you tried to save him.

[00:56:44] But also teeny was the one remember when way back, you know, that when Saga voted out,

[00:56:49] it was teeny.

[00:56:49] That was like the emotional out there.

[00:56:52] Yeah.

[00:56:52] Now I still don't think Saul's voting for teeny.

[00:56:54] Maybe that's, you know, me feeling sour grapes.

[00:56:57] Um, what's your sour grapes?

[00:56:59] Well, just like I went.

[00:57:00] So, you know, I really put so much of my, you know, I put so much, you know, you love

[00:57:03] Saul so much that teeny couldn't save him.

[00:57:05] I don't want anybody to have Saul's vote, but me.

[00:57:08] Um, I, by the way, I listened to the, to the song on the wand off about, it was very

[00:57:13] humorous.

[00:57:13] Yes.

[00:57:14] Yes.

[00:57:14] Uh, a couple of great Saul songs on the wand off.

[00:57:17] Um, so I think, I think Saul could go either way.

[00:57:19] I kind of think I see him.

[00:57:21] Okay.

[00:57:21] So let's, let's revisit Saul if it's close enough.

[00:57:25] Okay.

[00:57:26] Gabe is a vote for who?

[00:57:28] Gabe is I, maybe Sam.

[00:57:32] Uh, that's another tough one.

[00:57:34] Yeah.

[00:57:35] Um, okay.

[00:57:36] Kyle is a vote for Sam.

[00:57:38] Yeah, for sure.

[00:57:39] Okay.

[00:57:40] Uh, then, uh, we have Caroline.

[00:57:43] Caroline is a vote for Rachel.

[00:57:44] Okay.

[00:57:46] Then, uh, Andy.

[00:57:48] Andy could go either way too, but probably Rachel.

[00:57:50] I think probably Rachel.

[00:57:51] Um, and then now Genevieve is a vote for Sam.

[00:57:55] Sam.

[00:57:55] I mean, this is, this could be a nail biter.

[00:57:57] It was a nail biter.

[00:57:59] Sam win over Rachel.

[00:58:01] No.

[00:58:02] Yeah.

[00:58:03] And then Sue, I think it's a vote for Rachel.

[00:58:05] So it really comes down to those two Saul and Gabe votes that we can't figure out.

[00:58:09] So that, that would actually be our, our probably tightest version of this.

[00:58:15] Yeah.

[00:58:16] Um, so with that, now that you know that should Rachel go into the make fire against Sam?

[00:58:22] Maybe so.

[00:58:23] Maybe so.

[00:58:25] Um, so, so a lot of people are saying in the chat that, um, and you know, forgive me for

[00:58:28] looking at the chat, uh, but that, that, uh, Genevieve might vote for, for Rachel, you

[00:58:33] know, they're, they were the two sort of like, they had this sort of like right head

[00:58:36] to head rivalry.

[00:58:37] They respected each other.

[00:58:38] I can see that happening too.

[00:58:39] I can see it.

[00:58:39] Yeah.

[00:58:40] Yeah.

[00:58:40] But it's close either, either way.

[00:58:42] It's close.

[00:58:42] Uh, so, you know, if Rachel feels that good about her fire making, maybe, uh, she should

[00:58:46] do it.

[00:58:47] Yeah.

[00:58:48] Interesting.

[00:58:48] Well, we'll see.

[00:58:49] We'll find out.

[00:58:49] Okay.

[00:58:50] Um, a lot of questions about, uh, if, uh, Sam and Rachel are with each other.

[00:58:57] So we're, uh, we've already cracked that one.

[00:59:01] Okay.

[00:59:02] Let's, uh, see some other questions.

[00:59:05] Um, have you noticed that star 47 is the first new era season?

[00:59:09] Without dramatic, uh, backstory segments.

[00:59:11] I think we've gotten like minimal.

[00:59:13] There've been a few.

[00:59:13] Who do we get?

[00:59:14] We got, we got Kyle's.

[00:59:16] I mean, I don't, we kind of talked about it.

[00:59:17] I don't know if we got like a, uh, yeah.

[00:59:19] I think that the show is better at figuring it.

[00:59:21] Like, I think they, they overdid it.

[00:59:23] And I think that like, uh, the last couple of seasons, like, uh, the new, they came out

[00:59:27] with the new era.

[00:59:27] It was a little clunky, some of the stuff they're doing, but I think that they've, uh,

[00:59:30] like done a really good job, like in 45, 46, 47, sort of figuring out like what they

[00:59:35] want the show to be in the new era.

[00:59:37] A lot of dramatic Keyshawn segments, however.

[00:59:39] A lot of flashbacks about, uh, Keyshawn.

[00:59:41] A lot of flashbacks.

[00:59:42] Do you think he's going to come out in the, maybe that's the surprise that we're not expecting.

[00:59:45] You know, there's been so much leading up to what happened to Keyshawn and Keyshawn

[00:59:48] affected everything.

[00:59:49] Do you think he comes out in the end?

[00:59:50] That could be a surprise.

[00:59:51] I had a thought that we didn't really see Genevieve much in the game until the Keyshawn

[00:59:55] boot.

[00:59:56] Like, uh, isn't it fitting that Genevieve's game really begins on the Keyshawn boot episode?

[01:00:01] Yeah.

[01:00:02] Oh, that's a very good point.

[01:00:03] It's like, she like, it's like, like turned into a new person.

[01:00:06] Yeah.

[01:00:07] Okay.

[01:00:08] Um, let's see.

[01:00:10] Anything else that's on your mind?

[01:00:14] No.

[01:00:14] Hmm.

[01:00:15] Okay.

[01:00:16] What about your mind?

[01:00:18] No, I, I'm, you know, I'm very excited to see how this plays out.

[01:00:21] It's been a very fun season.

[01:00:23] And, you know, I think we have a couple of, uh, interesting possibilities for next, uh,

[01:00:29] Wednesday's, uh, two hour finale.

[01:00:31] Yeah.

[01:00:32] Oh, the one other thing I wanted to say was, you know, Caroline being her incredible self,

[01:00:36] um, you know, she was like, yes, she was cheering when, when, you know, Rachel played

[01:00:40] her idol and got out, um, got out Andy.

[01:00:42] But then I, then, you know, I, and I thought it was thinking to myself, gosh, Andy's going

[01:00:45] to get a very frosty reception in that jury house.

[01:00:47] But then, you know, at the next tribal council, like Caroline's like looking at Andy and kind

[01:00:50] of like, you know, making reactions with him and smiling.

[01:00:52] I just felt, you know, she, she's so lovely.

[01:00:54] She's so lovely.

[01:00:55] Yeah.

[01:00:55] I feel like that the jury for the most part, like, I guess we've seen like some bitter

[01:00:59] Ponderosa videos, but I kind of feel like that, uh, a lot of times, uh, all sins are

[01:01:03] forgiven by the time everybody gets to the jury.

[01:01:05] That's nice.

[01:01:06] Um, like I remember in Survivor of the Amazon, I was like, oh, I'm going to get to the jury

[01:01:10] and Alex is going to be mad at me.

[01:01:12] And everybody's like, you get there and everyone's like, Hey, you idiot.

[01:01:15] Like, uh, I know.

[01:01:17] Yeah.

[01:01:18] Yeah.

[01:01:19] Um, who fishy for Rachel, obviously.

[01:01:22] Yes.

[01:01:22] Yeah.

[01:01:23] Okay.

[01:01:24] Yeah.

[01:01:25] And I'm just trying to see if there's any other, um, questions that, uh, we didn't explore,

[01:01:32] but yeah, I think we, uh, ended up, uh, covering everything.

[01:01:35] Good job by us.

[01:01:38] Good job by us.

[01:01:39] Oh, this is interesting.

[01:01:40] Um, Darth Tony says, did you notice when Rachel said, oh gosh, the chat just scrolled.

[01:01:45] Oh no.

[01:01:46] Okay.

[01:01:46] Um, that she found her idol.

[01:01:47] She said after the Sierra vote, which is not true.

[01:01:49] It was before that could be lead to a big reveal at the final tribal council in the name

[01:01:53] of her shot in the dark move.

[01:01:54] That's a cool idea.

[01:01:55] Did you notice when Rachel, uh, said she found her idol.

[01:01:58] She said after the Sierra vote, which is not true.

[01:02:00] It was before.

[01:02:02] Um, um, yeah, that's interesting.

[01:02:06] I do wonder if that might've been just like, uh, a slip up.

[01:02:09] Cause she did say she got it in the auction.

[01:02:12] Like she was, she was saying that, oh, it took her a while to find it.

[01:02:17] So, um, did you think of anything about, uh, Genevieve having to reveal, uh, where she

[01:02:23] found the, she was like, oh yeah, I was under speed.

[01:02:26] I mean, she didn't even, didn't even blink.

[01:02:27] She was, she was ready.

[01:02:29] Yeah.

[01:02:30] Um, then, uh, TQTW, uh, who do you think holds the most sway in Ponderos right now?

[01:02:36] Uh, and who are they rooting for?

[01:02:37] Who do you think is the most influential juror?

[01:02:40] I wonder if it is Saul or, you know, often the last jurors are the ones.

[01:02:45] I mean, probably Genevieve has a lot of sway here.

[01:02:47] I think so.

[01:02:48] I don't think that Saul is like a particularly like, I think Saul just seems like so like

[01:02:54] low key.

[01:02:54] Like I can't imagine Saul is really like politicking at Ponderosa.

[01:02:59] Yeah.

[01:02:59] I mean, Genevieve probably has a lot of, you know, Caroline probably has a lot of influence.

[01:03:03] Um, yeah.

[01:03:04] Gabe, I think is the.

[01:03:05] Yeah, Gabe's a good bet as, as like the kind of, yeah, that's a good, that's a good bet.

[01:03:09] And then we don't even know who he's voting for.

[01:03:10] Yeah.

[01:03:11] Okay.

[01:03:12] All right.

[01:03:13] So Steven Fishback will be back one week from today.

[01:03:16] We'll know the winner.

[01:03:17] We'll know everything.

[01:03:18] We'll know everything.

[01:03:19] Yeah.

[01:03:20] Uh, what else is exciting in your world right now?

[01:03:23] Hey, you know, it's cold.

[01:03:26] It's cold.

[01:03:27] Is it cold there?

[01:03:28] Cold and rainy.

[01:03:29] Um, it had been cold and rainy.

[01:03:31] Today's like the first sunny day in a while.

[01:03:32] Yeah.

[01:03:33] Yeah.

[01:03:33] Um, yeah, nothing.

[01:03:36] Okay.

[01:03:37] We're taping another episode of blood on the clock tower on Sunday.

[01:03:41] Um, that's going to be really fun.

[01:03:43] We've got a really fun group.

[01:03:43] It's a very, um, we haven't released our second episode, but we are editing it.

[01:03:47] Uh, it looks very, very, it's very good.

[01:03:49] I think even maybe even better than the first one.

[01:03:51] So hopefully the third one will be even better than the second one.

[01:03:53] Yeah.

[01:03:53] Uh, so it'll be, it'll be, uh, we got survivors from survivor 47.

[01:03:57] This isn't a returning player season.

[01:04:00] Like who would you think would from survivor 47, would you like to see play blood on the

[01:04:03] clock tower?

[01:04:04] Well, I'm actually like, you know, Christian and I were really committed to this, this,

[01:04:08] this, you know, our, our hot blood on the clock tower survivors play.

[01:04:10] So we've been, you know, bringing in some of the survivors to, to, to join us.

[01:04:14] And there's been some, some great 47ers.

[01:04:17] I don't want to give away any names lest they don't want to, you know, they don't want to

[01:04:20] be their names to be out or, or if they perform disastrously, we might not actually want them

[01:04:24] to come into the main game, but we've got some, um, some good ones.

[01:04:28] And, um, you know, the most exciting thing is, is we're taping on, um, Sunday with perhaps

[01:04:34] the most famous new era survivor Kane.

[01:04:38] Yes.

[01:04:38] Yeah.

[01:04:38] Very popular.

[01:04:39] Yeah.

[01:04:40] Name drop, name drop that he's going to be there.

[01:04:42] Um, uh, I think we need Sue to play blood on the clock tower.

[01:04:46] Okay.

[01:04:47] Well, you will be the one to, to, to contact her.

[01:04:50] Teach her the game and, um, you know, run, run them with her.

[01:04:53] Cause, uh, mine is full.

[01:04:55] Yeah.

[01:04:55] Because I think that she's probably going to be the person who takes being betrayed in

[01:04:59] blood on the clock tower, like in the most interesting and entertaining way.

[01:05:04] Yeah.

[01:05:05] Um, that would be very funny.

[01:05:06] That would, listen, that would be great.

[01:05:08] Yes.

[01:05:09] Okay.

[01:05:09] I'm going to say, you gotta give it to Sue.

[01:05:11] Sue is, Sue is like there.

[01:05:12] She's like, I mean, Sue's there.

[01:05:15] We haven't talked about Sue.

[01:05:16] I feel like Sue needs some flat.

[01:05:17] We didn't even talk about Sue's idol.

[01:05:18] That's so sad.

[01:05:19] Like this big secret.

[01:05:21] She's been holding the whole game, like, you know, waiting for her moment and she plays

[01:05:25] it and it's kind of like, yay, Sue.

[01:05:27] Good for you.

[01:05:28] I mean, I'm kind of like, Sue seems like, uh, is a great story that has persevered, but

[01:05:33] you know, in the new era, we have these players who it's like, okay, nobody takes them seriously

[01:05:38] in terms of like, nobody's ever voting for them.

[01:05:41] Nobody's not wanting, like we heard Sam one time mentioned Sue's name and that's it.

[01:05:46] And Genevieve was pushing Sue.

[01:05:47] It was a good plan because like getting rid of Sue opens up spots in the final travel council.

[01:05:51] Yeah.

[01:05:51] But nobody was really, nobody was really by, and, and Genevieve was like, uh, like arguing

[01:05:55] for what I'm saying right now.

[01:05:57] I just feel like that there's some people who played this game and they're playing on like

[01:06:00] a completely different skill level of like that.

[01:06:03] Nobody is ever trying to vote them out.

[01:06:06] So it's basically like, uh, they could do literally anything and not lose until they get to the

[01:06:12] final three or lose fire making.

[01:06:14] Like she's controlled her threat level.

[01:06:15] Think of how perfectly she's managed her threat level.

[01:06:17] Nobody's coming for her.

[01:06:18] She's 59.

[01:06:19] That's amazing.

[01:06:20] Like truly that's fantastic.

[01:06:21] I mean, she's in it.

[01:06:22] She's like, you know, in all these challenges.

[01:06:24] I mean, you know, sure.

[01:06:25] And yeah, she looked for the idols.

[01:06:27] She worked, she worked hard around the camp, but it's just like, if, if you are like never,

[01:06:32] if nobody's ever coming for you, if nobody's, and I guess, and Kyle did write her name down

[01:06:37] once upon a time.

[01:06:38] Um, but like, uh, since not since TK was in the game, has there been like a serious attempt

[01:06:44] to try to knock her out of the game?

[01:06:46] You know, uh, she's just vibing.

[01:06:49] Yeah.

[01:06:50] Who, but is she the old, like who are the old, who was even older than her and the new

[01:06:54] era?

[01:06:54] I mean, who did she, has anybody been, uh, played in the new era?

[01:06:58] Uh, like, yeah.

[01:07:00] Mike Turner.

[01:07:01] She's older than, um, than, um, Gabler by like five, six years.

[01:07:05] Um, Mike Turner.

[01:07:07] Let's see.

[01:07:08] So I think she's, she's gotta be.

[01:07:09] Yeah.

[01:07:10] Mike.

[01:07:10] Yeah.

[01:07:11] No, give her her flowers.

[01:07:12] Yeah.

[01:07:12] I mean, Mike was up.

[01:07:13] Mike was, was right.

[01:07:15] Was close to that when he played.

[01:07:16] So a little bit younger, but you know, he, he certainly played a better game at that age.

[01:07:20] Okay.

[01:07:21] All right.

[01:07:22] Uh, so, uh, we've got still a lot coming up, including on Friday, we'll have the patron

[01:07:28] Q and a, and then on Saturday, I will be dropping, uh, when I will talk with Drew Basile and he

[01:07:35] weigh in on, uh, where we are at heading into the final four.

[01:07:40] So be sure to check that out, uh, over on our, the confessional, our, our own RHAP newsletter,

[01:07:48] where smart reality stars write about the shows, uh, that they were, uh, on and that they know about.

[01:07:53] Kevin Jacobs got mentioned, got name checked by baby Andy today.

[01:07:58] Okay.

[01:07:58] And it just so happens.

[01:08:00] Kevin Jacobs wrote about baby Andy in the latest edition of the confessional.

[01:08:04] You could read that at reality TV newsletters.com.

[01:08:07] Wow.

[01:08:08] Okay.

[01:08:08] All right.

[01:08:10] Steven, thank you so much.

[01:08:12] Uh, another season of killing it on the know-it-alls.

[01:08:15] We'll wrap it all up next Thursday and love to read your comments as well.

[01:08:20] Take care of everybody.

[01:08:20] Have a good one.

[01:08:21] Bye.

[01:08:22] Bye.

[01:09:21] Bye.

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