Kaôh F***ing Rong Rewatch Ep 9

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[00:02:33] Hey, everybody. What's going on? Rob Cesternino. We're back to talk about Survivor co-effing wrong. And we got another good one here today to talk about for episode number nine. A man who would never do psychological warfare. It's Chappelle. Chappelle, how are you? I don't know. Now that you mention it, Rob, I probably could do a little psychological warfare. Nothing crazy, though. A little. I'm far too lazy. Far too lazy to do anything too wild.

[00:03:02] There's a lot going on here in Debbie's boot episode. What a run for Debbie here in Survivor co-wrong as Scott and Jason are sabotaging the camp and even tie. And we'll talk about it all as a big total blindside for Debbie in this episode. After that was one of the things that she said she was going to do what to Liz. And let me see if I play the Debbie total blindside.

[00:03:32] Oh, hold on. Debbie total blindside. Here we go. Blindside. Yes. With the who wants to be a millionaire music afterwards. Yes. She could have used the lifeline in this episode. Should have called Joe. I mean, well, that's my first question. Was this a blindside? Because why didn't Joe just tell Debbie they were going to vote for her? I mean, he doesn't plan on voting for her, but he knows everybody else does. I think his worldview is like, that's preposterous. Stop it. We're not doing that. Like, okay.

[00:04:01] So he just like doesn't perceive it at all. Sounds like a bunch of malarkey to me. Yeah. He's not gossip. Well, I mean, is it gossip? I mean, people are coming to you and saying, hey, Joe, we want to vote out your number one ally. You say, I don't want to do that. And they say, okay, well, we're probably still going to do it. You say, all right, well, good luck. Godspeed. And you never go and tell Debbie, like, hey, just so you know, just so you know, they're going to vote for you. He knew they were serious, but he didn't think they were literal, you know? No.

[00:04:31] Like, Joe, what are you doing? I need to know if he, Debbie could not have been blindsided here. There's just no reason why Joe shouldn't tell her. At the very least, let her know, hey, I'm not voting for you, but these other people are. Yeah. Hopefully you can go find an idol. You know, they thought Aubrey had one. Neil got voted out with one. Maybe it's back in the game. You know, I just really think that for Debbie to get blindsided here with her number one ally being in on the plan, and he doesn't even, like, he doesn't vote with them to vote her out.

[00:05:00] So, like, he's not in on, like, he's not buying the plan. So why doesn't he just tell her? Debbie and Joe stick to the plan. They are voting out Scott here in this episode. And we get, it's 4-3-2 here. 4 for Debbie, 3 for Sydney, and then 2 for Scott. There's a lot of stuff going on with the idol. So I'm really looking forward to talking this through here with you. I've reviewed not just the episode.

[00:05:23] I also watched the entire live know-it-alls from Caroline's on Broadway, RIP to Caroline's on Broadway, back from April 13th, 2016. Lots of fun stories from that podcast that I watched. I also listened to Debbie's exit interview today. In her exit interview, did she tell you if Joe, like, told her what was going on? No, that did not come up. I also listened to This Week in Survivor History for the first time in this exercise. I was in the car.

[00:05:53] I was done talking to Debbie, and then I listened to my entire conversation with Jordan Kalish from April 13th, 2016. I was going to ask you if you were being held hostage when you said that. Like, what, so you did this on purpose. Are you okay? Blink twice if something's wrong. I mean, it was just on. I was like, okay, let me see where this goes. Yeah, that's pretty much how most people discover Twitch. I'm joking. I really do enjoy Twitch and Jordan and his commentary. But yeah, the Debbie thing is very interesting to me.

[00:06:22] Also, interesting to me, Rob, I was a very big fan of the podcast at this time, and I just had fantasies of going to Caroline's on Broadway and going to one of these live shows. Been to plenty of live shows. Never got to experience this. It feels like a missed opportunity for me. It was intimate. It was about 300 people, and you were really, like, on top of each other. I think the max seating was, like, 320, and we really filled up the thing. It was, like, you'd go down the basement, and it was, like, a really, like, everybody.

[00:06:50] You were on top of other people. Like, there were, like, you were sitting at tables, and it was really a cramped room. I mean, it was exciting. We hadn't done a lot of live shows, but it was, you certainly got to know people. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I, in a weird way, I'm relieved that I never got to go on stage for something like that. 300 people seems a little too close. You know, like, when it's, when you have your, you know, stadium field like you do now, Rob,

[00:07:19] it's like I'm talking to faceless people. You know, they're in the crowd. I don't have to worry about it during the commercial breaks. But Caroline, it feels like people can reach up and touch you. Yeah, you have to, like, really, like, walk, like, through the mob of people to get there. As some things don't change, you know, Eliza is heckling us all throughout the show, just yelling things from the audience. But she's close enough that you could kind of make out what she's saying. Yeah, see, this would give me stage fright.

[00:07:46] You know, you're very good at what you do, because I would be so nervous being up there in front of 300 people. It just feels like it's too, too personal. You know, back up. Back up off me. All right, well, we can talk more about that. But let's talk about the actual episode itself, which really takes a lot of twists and turns. It's a really, really well-done episode. A lot of it hinges on Julia and Julia being the hinge between the women and then ultimately the guys.

[00:08:12] We can, I guess, start off by talking it through with the sabotage. The guys are mad about what happened with Nick. And so that's it. We're going to do psychological warfare. Kyle Jason says he knows about psychological warfare. He did psychological warfare in the army. I'd like to hear more about that. Of what he, what was he doing? He is sabotaging everybody.

[00:08:41] They're going to, they start, they take the machete. And I want to say the saw, but they have to, they have to use the saw to cut the coconuts. Yeah. I don't know. I don't like, I don't, well, obviously it's not fun to watch something like this, right? Because they're basically saying like, we're men, we're providers. And we're, so we're going to stop providing. So you all can just suffer. But I get the pettiness, right? I like when reality TV people get mad and start doing ridiculous stuff, right?

[00:09:10] Jatia throwing the rice in the fire, inject that into my veins. That's the kind of stuff that I like to see. I'm not really that mad about this. Am I annoyed that they're kind of bullying everybody? Sure. Whatever. But at the same time, it's good TV. My issue here, Rob, is, is this good strategy? How, like, what is the upside to doing something like this? So I think that the initial upside is that they're sort of like playing from the Russell Hance playbook. Okay. If we hide the machete, if we hide the ax, there'll be chaos.

[00:09:38] They'll realize how much they need us because we are the providers and they're going to look to us. If they think that they can just tell us what to do, well, get, they're not going to be able to. And then I think then when Sydney is able to put the coconuts in the fire, she gets out the saw, they open the coconuts. That's where you see Scott go and pour the water on the fire. It's like, all right, well, then now I'm pouring the water on the fire. Yeah. But there's no strategy to that, right? That's just pettiness, right?

[00:10:07] That's just like, you thought you had a thing. You thought you were, you were so big and bad. You were able to get these coconuts open. Well, I'm going to show you now what are you going to do without a fire? And guess what, Scott? Imagine that. They can start a fire too. This is so silly. Yep. It's not the best survivor play. And it's really, you don't see anything like this on Survivor anymore. No, not really. It's a big gun era. Even with Jatia throwing out the fire, it wasn't strategy.

[00:10:37] She was just throwing a fit. She was just kind of like, you know what? Yeah, y'all are icing me out. Y'all are going to vote me out. I'm mad. Let me throw the rice away. It makes total sense. But to kind of look at this and be like, all right, this is something they're doing and they hope to further their game and then sit in the jury and win. I just don't get it. Even if there is this perceived alliance of all girls versus these three guys or two guys in time, depending on however you spend it or what moment you're looking at the screen.

[00:11:04] If they get to the final two or three or whatever, if there's a third option, they're not going to get the votes. Nobody is going to sit here and be bullied for three weeks and then just be like, all right, are you good? I think at this point, maybe they feel like the game has already gotten away from them. And I think that maybe they felt like that Sydney turning on them was the death blow. They are outnumbered at this point. What is there? Nine people in the game.

[00:11:33] So they're outnumbered. The three of them, six to three. Kind of insurmountable odds for the three of them to ultimately get to the end. They feel like that they can make some noise. They do have the super idol. It's not going to be that easy to get rid of them. But as far as them getting to the end as a group, I think that that ship has sailed. I think this is bad gameplay again. You know, like I'm enjoying the characters of Koran, but the closer I look at this season, I just think there are some bad players because I think that you could still be an asset to Sydney.

[00:12:03] Yeah, she blindsided you. But if you pretend to be nice and say, all right, Sydney, yeah, you voted out Nick. Y'all barely knew Nick. You've been emerged for two votes. It's not like Nick is y'all's best friend. I'm sure Sydney could use the numbers, right? Like you could be, hey, Sydney, we understand you had to get rid of Nick. We're totally good. What do you want to do next? And then Sydney goes, okay, maybe I'm not feeling Julia right now. Maybe Ty is the person that she wants out to weaken them further. That's fine. What happened to anybody but me?

[00:12:32] Well, I think the thing that you're describing is really, Sari talked about this in Survivor 50. And she said that's the difference between new school and the new era and old era players. The old era players are sort of locked in. They have their alliances, whether they started before the game or not. And these are the people I'm working with. And that's that. Where the new era people, it's like, okay, you didn't work with me on this vote. What can we do today? Yeah.

[00:12:59] Again, it's not like Sydney blindsided them and took out Jason from Scott or Scott from Jason. She took out Nick. Respect to the mail jar, but he wasn't really in your life. You just met this dude. You know what I'm saying? So I think the moment Sydney flips, it really draws this line in the middle of the camp and says like, okay, girls on this side, guys on this side. But then there's Joe still there working with the brains.

[00:13:27] You know, so it's not there's not a clear division of gender here. They're making it one, but it doesn't have to be. Yeah, that the women just for the most part, they're sick of these guys. But Joe is very much with the women that are there. And that's the great setup for a very interesting reward challenge. And Jeff is doing some stuff here that is different than he's done in the past. I think it's very fun. I think it's interesting.

[00:13:56] We talked about in the last episode, instead of, okay, I'm going to come out with all these things to tempt you. Here's all the food. You want out of the challenge? Go eat it. And we kind of get a version of that here today with we get to our reward challenge. And Jeff's like, just make teams. Whoever you want to be with, that's the team. I mean, two teams of four and one person has to sit out. We're not going to do a pick them. We're not going to do a draft. Just make the teams.

[00:14:24] And it's a perfect time to do this, too, because, again, the lines are very clearly defined. Ty has thrown his lot in with these two guys, right? And kudos to Ty being able to escape the fact that he voted Jason last round. He's like, no, I voted for Debbie. I'm pretty sure Nick, the same Nick that you're riding or dying for, voted for you, Jason. The same one that got you poured out the— Rob, do you see what I'm talking about? This is the same Nick that they're like, well, now I can't work with Sydney.

[00:14:53] He voted for you, allegedly. You know what I'm saying? But Ty's like, yeah, I voted for Debbie. I don't know what to tell you. And so now it's the three of them. And I think when Jeff looks over there, he can tell there's not a lot of mingling going on. You know, they talk about it at the challenge where they're saying there is sabotage going on. They're putting out the fire. You know, Scott's like, well, you know, I go fetch the water and I push Ty up the tree. It's like, I could climb a damn tree. You know, so I think at that point, it's very clear.

[00:15:22] Nobody really wants to work with them. So there's no point in doing like a schoolyard pick because it's probably going to land just like this, right? It's going to be those two and then Ty and then a fourth person, whoever that is. Yeah. So we give them this opportunity. The three guys are going to stick together. The problem is that Joe sits out immediately. But there are still five women. One of the women has to go join Jason and Scott and Ty to be on their team. And so it's ultimately going to be Julia who ends up flipping over.

[00:15:51] And I have now, I feel like I've heard this both ways in terms of this is a little bit of like a two versions of the Julia story where there's the version that's kind of presented in the episode. And then there's the version that Debbie is really sticking to. And the version that Debbie is going to tell me about in the exit interview where Debbie said that Julia goes to go and work with the guys.

[00:16:20] She was going to sabotage them. And she said it took 10 minutes. They deliberated forever. Somebody had to go over there. Debbie says in the episode, it was brave that Julia went over and did that. Nobody else wanted to do it. She jumped on the grenade and she was going to sabotage them. And that's why she went there. There's so much contradictory evidence, though, about this Julia read from Debbie. Right. Because Debbie saying that makes total sense. Right. Like if you're Debbie, you trust Julia and Julia is going over there. She should be sabotaging them. Right.

[00:16:49] What is the worst that can happen for Julia? Sure, they're mad at her. But they were putting out the fire. We can't, you know, like they can't get madder at Julia than for what they've been doing to her. Right. So she could go over there, just sit down on the ground, you know, or something like that. What are they going to do? I mean, they could just pick her up, I guess. Her tribe mate. Why not? It's right there. You're like, come on, y'all. We got to review the tape. But yeah, sit down on the ground. Let these girls win. Joe gets to go on the thing. Julia misses out on Chinese takeout.

[00:17:15] But that, I think, ingratiates herself even more with Sydney, with Aubrey. You know, honestly, with Debbie, you know, like those people are going to be like, yeah, Julia is a team player. What ends up happening here is that Julia goes with the guys and they end up winning. And it looks like Julia hopped over to find, you know, greener pastures with some people that she can beat. The problem with Debbie's story is that Julia is telling us, I hopped over to find greener pastures with people I can beat. Debbie is telling us that Julia is lying about the thing that we saw Julia do.

[00:17:46] It's so wild because you're right. All of the evidence that we see in the episode, including Julia's confessionals and everything we see Julia do. And this was days after the episode that I talked to Debbie because I did the live show and then I flew home. I feel like it was like a Monday or a Tuesday where I finally got to talk to Debbie after the episode. So it's like that stuff is out there. But she sticks to this story that Julia was working with the women. It was a mistake to get rid of Julia.

[00:18:13] She wasn't actually working with the guys. It's wild, this relationship that Debbie, this affinity that Debbie has for Julia. They were not on the same starting tribe. They did not play together at the swap. And somewhere along the way, Debbie just falls like madly in love with Julia as a person. We've heard Debbie talk about her daughter and what her daughter thinks.

[00:18:41] And I just have to wonder if Debbie is just sort of looking at Julia and seeing her kid. Oh, Rob, yeah. I read this completely different. I think Debbie is really infatuated with being correct. And I think that Julia being anything but what Debbie perceived her as makes Debbie wrong in this moment. Debbie goes out here and she wants to be like, but I was right. She was with us. This was the right move. She don't care about Julia at all.

[00:19:10] It's so crazy for her to do this because, like you said, they don't have that much of a relationship. And then everything we see on TV is contradictory to what she's saying. I have no reason to believe Julia is going to flip. Cut to Julia walking over and being like, OK, so here's where they're going to vote. They're voting three for you and three for you. Why, if Julia is working with you so closely, why would she go and tell the guys who potentially have an idol? Ty's been talking about a super idol. They think that Aubrey might have one.

[00:19:38] So if Ty knows about this, then somebody else has one. Why would Julia then go and relay that information to the side with the idol if she is this trustworthy, Debbie? So to me, this is just Debbie trying to like, you know, squint and make it all make sense because it really doesn't. It makes no sense for her to believe these things, especially when everybody else is telling her like, hey, Debbie, we can't trust this woman. And even with that, Debbie's so hellbent on voting out Scott and Jason.

[00:20:07] I really think that's probably where all of this is coming from. Right. Like, yeah, I don't care what Julia is doing. Y'all been throwing the fire, you know, putting out the fire and, you know, hiding the tools and all that kind of stuff. She will do whatever it takes to believe that Julia is right so that she can blame this on Scott and Jason. You ever feel like you're stuck with the same pair of glasses and want to shake it up? You could get new ones, but replacing them always felt like more effort than it was worth.

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[00:24:23] Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm.com. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. So Aubrey and Debbie are going to just be at loggerheads in this episode over the Julia of it all. Where Debbie is really offended about what Scott and Jason did. Debbie has been very much for the girls throughout the whole season. She's talked about that. We've seen her with Sydney and talking about with Michelle. She really wants a woman to win. She doesn't like some of these guys who are arrogant.

[00:24:52] Whether it's Nick, whether it's Jason, whether it's Scott or Peter. She hasn't really liked that from the guys this season. But Aubrey is seeing this pretty clearly of like, hey, the guys have idols. They have a super idol potentially. And that maybe we can't hit them, but we could hit Julia. And we could take out Julia and that could be the move. Yeah. And then maybe the guys will be nervous and they'll flush the idols. You know, like this sounds like a good plan.

[00:25:23] She's getting buy-in from Sydney and other people. But Debbie is just putting her foot down. She's like, nope, not doing it. Sorry, I'm correct. You're wrong. And you know, I want to be, get it right. It's actually, I think we see Sydney say it first in the episode. I think that Sydney says that when Julia comes back from eating the Chinese food reward, that she's instantly like, so guys, what's the plan?

[00:25:48] And Sydney is again, just like when she saw Nick walk up to Julia in the last episode. She says, that's BS. And she wants Julia out. And she goes to Aubrey and Aubrey very much likes that plan. Yeah, Aubrey's good with this. Now, Aubrey has multiple reasons to want Julia out. Obviously, if she believes what Sydney is saying, that Julia is playing both sides and is flipping over and potentially giving away the plan here, that's not great. So she should be agreeing with Sydney here. But also, Aubrey did write Julia's name down.

[00:26:16] And so if you like someone's like, you can lose them inconsequentially like, well, I guess it just has to be Julia. Then that's better for Aubrey because Julia could be still having an axe to grind for that cross out vote that Aubrey did very publicly a couple of rounds ago. So the episode sets this up so beautifully of, okay, Julia's in trouble. She's going to get voted out. That's the plan Aubrey and Sydney came up with. And that's that. You play the middle.

[00:26:44] And Aubrey says she hopes that she's the one that gets run over by the car. And here we go. And we have this challenge. We really don't do this challenge anymore. I feel like that we first did it maybe back in Gabon. I remember Kenny ends up winning this challenge. Oh, wow. This was really one of my favorite challenge. Like it's the person who we are told is in trouble. And then it's really dramatically done the way that you,

[00:27:14] and if you didn't watch the episode, you have to stack your dominoes all in a line. And then also get through the minefield, like a Jake O'Kane type situation where you have to step through the maze. Like tripwires, yeah. Tripwire to not knock over your thing that is carrying all of your giant dominoes. Yeah, it's a fun challenge to watch, especially with the gravity of the situation. We know that if Julia loses this,

[00:27:43] she's probably going home, which brings me to question, Julia, why are you flipping to the bottom of a four-person alliance in a tribe of nine people? Like she has to win here based on her actions because she did this, right? Like because of the way she's acting where she's playing both sides, she chose to do this when she was, to me, she's the most vulnerable that she's been. Why would it, I don't know. I'm just very curious about why would she do this? Because had she not won this challenge, she goes home. But she would have been fine otherwise.

[00:28:12] So I think that they're probably telling her about the idol. And although in the last episode, she makes a big face that she doesn't know about the idol, but maybe they told it to her over Chinese food where they go in the reward with her and they tell her like, hey, here's what we're going to do. And maybe they're even like coaching her up. Like, hey, go find out what the plan is. Find out what they're doing. Then tell us we're going to use the idol. And she's like, I'll beat these guys in the end. I'm probably not going to beat Aubrey and Sydney

[00:28:38] and Debbie and the people that are on the other side. But I think she feels like, if I go to the end with Scott and Jason, I feel pretty good. I could be like the Natalie White here. So does she think that maybe they were going to play the idol on her? Because if not, she's going home in this episode if she doesn't want immunity. I don't think she's thought that she is her, that she's on their radar. Like, I don't think that she's thinking about it that way. Yeah. To me, it just looks like she's putting herself on people's radar

[00:29:08] and then like in a vulnerable position where she doesn't even have the numbers, right? Like if it was the other way around and she was flipping to the five, I'd be like, oh, okay, cool, whatever. You know, she got the numbers back in her. Yeah. But she's flipping to these three guys. Like, they don't have any loyalty to you. I think if they go to Jason and Scott and say, you want to vote out Julia? I think they might even do it. Maybe. You know, I was going to say that she's like Will Wall. Will Wall hasn't played yet. She's the proto-Will Wall. And they're both 12 years old. Yeah. And I think that's really probably what this is coming from, right? It's just a little bit more like, I won't say game body,

[00:29:38] but you can tell they're fans of the show. They like the strategy and they like to make moves. They like to move around a little bit. She got a little squirrely, I think. I think you probably could have waited a little bit longer to flip to try to get numbers on your hands. Because there's, I mean, what, these other six people, it's Debbie, Joe, and Aubrey on one side. And then Sydney, Michelle, and Julia are the other three. Like, it's not like you're down in the numbers by any means. Debbie, Joe, and Aubrey aren't going to go work with Scott and Jason. Just bring in Scott and Jason if you just feel that uncomfortable with where you, you know,

[00:30:07] where you are in the pecking order. I don't know. It just felt like a weird time to be making some, like making these moves happen. Yeah, well, she ends up very dramatically winning this challenge. There's a couple of really great moments in the challenge where Michelle knocks her dominoes over and then you're just sort of like watching, following it along. It doesn't go all the way through. Debbie, she tries hers. It doesn't go through. Kyle Jason, he tries his. It doesn't work out.

[00:30:34] And then they freaking nail the shot so good on Julia that they have, I'm trying to remember which piece of equipment this is, the dolly. Not dolly neely. That they have the dolly shot of when Julia hits her domino, the camera tracks across the screen so good and they just freaking nail it. It was perfect. It is like,

[00:31:04] you watch every single domino fall because you're kind of watching Julie. She is in front at this point. The closest person to her at this point is Michelle trying to catch up with her but they know all eyes are on her. If she gets this, game over. And so yeah, they just happen to be right there when it happened and it was perfect. Like this is probably the high point of her entire, you know, survivor career, right? It's this moment. Despite her putting herself in a very precarious position that I would call it, this moment kind of makes it all worthwhile.

[00:31:34] And it's the best done survivor. The person that you know is in trouble, wins immunity as long as it's not somebody you hate. Yeah. I mean, we saw that in your season like six times with Jenna Maraska. We're going to see that with Michelle. She's going to reheat those nachos this season as well. Not that we hate her. Yeah, not that we hate her but you know, these people who are like dead to rights if they don't win immunity. It's fun to watch until it's not. You know, there are definitely some times where you're like, okay, once, cool. Twice, maybe. But then when you start thinking, all right,

[00:32:03] the whole game is going to be this person just winning immunity. You know, we're not too far removed from Mike Holloway at this point. It kind of loses its luster after a while. So, Julia ends up coming back with immunity and she's feeling really good. Actually, before we got to the immunity challenge, there was some other things that we didn't talk about. You've been talking about this was coming for a while of, okay,

[00:32:33] Scott and Jason put out the fire. We see a shot of Ty all alone on night 23 and he realizes the guys are sleeping. It's up to me. I got to do it. I have to be the bad guy. Yeah, but he does it in a covert way. So, Ty's the bad guy but he also, he doesn't do it publicly the way that Scott does. When Scott pours out the fire, he does it while they're sitting there. They're close enough to touch the water that he's pouring on the fire. Ty waits into the middle of the night,

[00:33:03] kind of creeps out of bed with his robe on, think, surveys the, okay, I guess I have to be the one. Pours it out. Then the next morning he wakes up, wipes the crust out of his eyes. Are there no more embers left? Like, Ty, you bastard. Yeah. Well, it's the water pouring out on the fire. Like, Scott did it because he was mad. Ty did it because I guess that's what we do now. I guess that's my initiation. I have to pour water on the fire when nobody's around.

[00:33:33] So, it's this idea that this grown-ass man has fallen in with the wrong crowd. You know, like, that's the narrative that's kind of being spun is that, like, you know, like, Ty's a good guy, but the people he surrounds himself are. Really, he's going to be bad influences on him. He went to the dark side. He did. But he's not enjoying it. You know, like, you want the people to go to the dark side to really just, like, revel in that moment, to bathe in the blood. But this is Ty being like, hey, guys, do we have to hide the machete?

[00:34:03] And they're like, yes. And he's like, okay, but like, what if we just, like, try to talk it out? No, no, we're not doing that. He's like, all right, well, what if we don't pour the fire out? No, we're going to do it. He's like, damn. All right, cool. Then at night, he's thinking, well, these are my new friends and they pour out fire. I got to pour out fire. He's like, Ty, if your friends jumped off a cliff, would you jump off the cliff? He's like, if it was fun, if it was fun, I'd do it. And so he did it. He did it. So, we're talking about that

[00:34:32] Aubrey is thinking that she wanted to take out Julia. Debbie's like, no, no, no, no, it has to be the guys. Well, now Julia has won immunity. And so, what are they going to do? Debbie tells Julia the plan right away. Debbie, Deborah, ma'am, I just feel like if everyone is telling you we don't trust this person, regardless of how much you trust that person,

[00:35:02] maybe don't tell them stuff in front of everybody else. If you wanted to tell Julia the plan, but right before a tribal council while people are gathering their things, hey, Julia, just so you know, because I love you, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. This is what we're doing. No, Debbie doesn't care about what everybody else wants in this moment. So, although they have expressed their concerns, Debbie's like, and? I'm still going to tell her because I want to. And so, she does. She's like, Julia, here's where the votes are going. We're going to split it on Todd. We're going to split it on Scott

[00:35:32] because there is no way that all three of them have an idol. Jason's going to think it's him. We'll flush it. They'll go home. We have the votes. Easy peasy. Julia says, okay. And she walks right over to Scott like, okay, so you want to know who they're voting for? I was like, Debbie, come on, man. Come on. Meanwhile, Debbie's in the exit press like, I don't know. I just feel like the evidence supports that she was working with us. Yeah. So, I guess that's part of the thing where they're going to do the three-three vote split that they think

[00:36:02] they want to split the votes because they have the idols. And so, maybe that's where Julia is feeling like, okay, well, if they try to split three-three, if I flip and I go over to Jason and Scott and Ty, then we'll have four. We'll have four and they're going to vote out Sydney here. But then at that point, what is it? A 4-4 tie at that point? Like, you know, we're going to eight at that point, right? She's not really setting herself up in a better position as far as I'm concerned.

[00:36:31] This flip takes out Sydney but it still leaves you at the bottom of this boys' alliance. You know, like, none of them are, you think they're sitting there thinking like, okay, and now we'll sit next to Julia at the end. Probably not. Probably not. So, I don't know. It just felt like a weird spot to be making a move like this. Yeah, to me. So, I just want to talk through the 3-3-3 because Debbie was still trying to sell me on the 3-3-3 when we were doing the exit interview. So, three votes on, what was it? Scott, three votes on Ty or was it three votes on Jason?

[00:37:01] Three votes on Scott, three votes on Ty, then no votes on Jason and then whoever the three guys vote for would vote, they were going to vote for Sydney. And so, then what happens if ultimately then the super idol ultimately ends up getting used? So, I'm trying to just think of how that would play out. So, do you have to play the super idol after? It's almost like if the super idol gets played, do you kind of want people to flip to the other person and then you play the idol after the revote?

[00:37:31] I thought, can you play it after a revote though? Like, I think at the revote, I don't know if you can still play an idol. I think, well, that's why it's a super idol. Oh my god, I've never actually thought about that. Have we, we've never seen it actually played. So, I'm just trying to talk this through. So, alright, it's three votes, three votes Scott, three votes Ty, three votes for Sydney. Okay, now we have a revote and then on the revote we vote out. No, now we play the idol. See, I think that,

[00:38:01] so one of them plays the idol beforehand. So, no, I thought when the votes, right, when, after the votes are read you can play the idol, right? So, I think after they read those votes, I think Jeff's like, play the idol. They play the idol at that point. It nullifies one of those, you know, people from the contention. That's how I thought it would go. So, I think that, I don't think that you can play the super idol after, like, you play the super idol after somebody gets voted out. So, so, I think it would, it would end up going like, so,

[00:38:32] alright, so we, Scott, nobody plays any idols before the vote. And then, okay, three votes, Scott, three votes, Ty. Now, okay, everybody flips their vote. Okay, Scott, the tribe has spoken and he's like, aha, but I have the super idol. Ding! And then we play two idols in that spot and now Scott's not voted out and then what happens? Do we go back to who had the second most votes? I think so. And the second most votes at that point would be Sidney, right? Because everybody,

[00:39:01] you're assuming everybody just piled on Scott. I guess. I really, we really, this thing has been in four different seasons and we really don't know how it works. They should stop doing it. I think they did. I don't, I don't, I don't mind the, like we talked about this a couple episodes ago, but I don't mind the idea that the more you have, the more powerful your idol is, right? So if it becomes a super idol because you have two of them, fine. But, now I'm like, kind of conflicted because I didn't, I never thought about,

[00:39:31] like in a tie situation that you would, not a tie vote situation, I didn't think that you could play the super idol after the tie vote situation was over, right? I always looked at it as like that first group of votes is where you play it. Yeah. Like you said, there's no precedent for this. So who knows what they were thinking. And the other thing that's confusing, and we see this in the episode where that they, Jason passes his half of the idol to tie and then tie has both of them. If you get voted out and they say, okay, Chappelle,

[00:40:02] that's enough, the tribe spoke in. Can I play my, like, I've got the two idols, save Chappelle. Like, can I do that? Do you have to have half of the idol in your hand or you have to have your idol and say, no, no, here, take my half. And now it's like, now I have the super idol and now I'm safe. I don't think so. I think they, I think they have to be in the same spot because there has to be a reason why Scott and Jason do this whole rigmarole at tribal council. It's like, all right, Jeff,

[00:40:30] I'm taking my idol. I'm handing it to Ty. Ty's like, and I am reaching over and accepting said idol and placing that idol in my possession. And then everybody's like, crickets, crickets. And then he just, and now I'm going to sit down and he sits down. So at that point, if Ty, if Scott or Jason gets voted out, I think Scott, uh, Ty can still be like, all right, I want them to be safe. But I don't know if, like you said, if it's in two parts, right,

[00:41:00] if Scott has his and, you know, Ty has his, is, can they just be like, no, save Jason? I don't really know if that's the thing. Was there play that they thought that maybe the votes were for Ty? That's actually crazy. Um, like, I just, what? That's wild. I don't know why they would think that. Again, Julia has told them what the split was. Yeah. Um, Julia does vote for Debbie though. Yeah. Julia has no issue with Debbie going home. Yeah.

[00:41:29] She doesn't vote with the guys. She doesn't vote for Sydney. She, you know, she does, at the end of the day, she does go with the women. Not, not the way Debbie wants them to. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, Debbie was right on some counts. She was not part of Scott and Jason and Ty. She did not vote for Scott, Jason and Ty though. And that is what Debbie was saying. Debbie was saying, Julia is going to vote for those two men. I am going to vote

[00:41:59] for those two men. Joe and I are going to vote. It's going to be me, Julia and Joe at the very least. She was counting on Julia. Julia betrayed this woman as she spent the entire episode caping for her. Super saver Julia. Yeah. Introducing Taco Bell's new jalapeno citrus salsa with bright citrus, real red jalapenos, guajilo chiles. Usually, you add sauce to the food, but when the sauce is this good, the food is just there to get the sauce to your mouth. That rolled quesadilla,

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[00:44:28] all the good stuff. That means no surprises. No, this looked better online. What you see is what you get. Look for the Loved by Guests badge and book today on the Vrbo app. If you know, you Vrbo. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners. Sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula

[00:44:56] removes up to 99.9% of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier. So you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. Aubrey and Sydney start to come together here. They find common ground in Debbie is too much. We need to move on from Debbie. I really like the way they talk to each other.

[00:45:24] I think that's the part of Aubrey that you don't really see in the first episode. She's like neurotic and having her panic attack and all that stuff. She wants to quit. She's sad, blah, blah, blah. But once Aubrey kind of gets momentum, she's like, Sydney, we got to get Debbie the F out of here. And Sydney's like, yeah, I'm not effing with the way this is. They talk so like two cops. But the way it's handled to me is like Sydney and Michelle are a thing now. Aubrey and Joe are still a thing. And so they're like the heads

[00:45:53] of their two factions. They come over. All right. Look, we had a plan. Man, what's good for you? Okay, that's good for you. This is good for me. This is good for you. This is good for me. Bet. All right. Bet. Ready, break. I'll go tell them. They go tell me. You will come back together. And I love this alliance. It's going to go all the way to the end. But it's very clear that again, Sydney, it feels like her allegiance is to Michelle at this very point. And Aubrey still has Joe. And that's why she doesn't have a real issue getting rid of Debbie is because it's not like she's getting rid of all her numbers. She's getting rid of somebody

[00:46:23] who is immovable and not willing to play the game that she wants to play. But she's keeping around Joe who despite being left out of this vote will come back to Aubrey. Where else is he going? He literally can't go with those guys. He literally can't go and that's why he has to leave the game also. You know, that is Joe's downside. Downfall, you know. That's it. He literally can't go. He can't go. He can't go. He cannot. He literally cannot. He cannot go. I can't. Yeah.

[00:46:53] So this is fun. They bring in Michelle. Michelle can't believe it that it's come to this. They're going to turn on Debbie. Which is good too because, you know, would Michelle be in on voting out Julia? We don't really know. But Michelle definitely like whatever. Debbie can go. I don't care. You know, it's fine. Yeah. And so they asked Julia, like, are you with us for real? Be for real. And she's like, yeah. Duh. Come on. Stupid.

[00:47:23] Yeah. What are you talking? I'm not going to work with those guys. I just had Chinese food and told the plan to. What would I look like? Mm hmm. Yeah. So Julia's doing a pretty good job. Michelle is like, hey, Julia's good. Michelle vouches for Julia. This is just so it's just a weird thing, right? Like her and Julia have been together from the very beginning. So of course, Michelle would believe it. But it's the Debbie, you know, just just inability to see anybody else's point of view that's really going to get Debbie voted out right here. Mm hmm.

[00:47:52] And then we talked about this tribal council. It's a good one. We got kind of like a borderline live tribal council going on where we've got everything going on with the idols and the guys are talking about what they're going to do with the idols. They're standing up. They're going to play rock, paper, scissors. We're just going to roll Shambo. And, you know, I was like, don't leave Shambo out of this. Shambo. She didn't ask for this. Yeah. Now, I don't know about how I feel about this tribal council because, yes, it is entertaining.

[00:48:22] We know there's some stuff going on. But also, these guys are just really like sucking the oxygen out of the room. Yeah. It's like, if you were rooting for them, you might actually enjoy this. Right? But because they are very much the villains, it's just like the longest eye roll in the world. Right? For one, Jeff calls out Ty about the super idol thing. Like, hey, Ty, are idols a thing? And Ty's like, if they exist. And Scott's like, well, Ty, I guess I'll tell you a secret right now.

[00:48:52] Ty has an idol. It's like, Scott, it ain't even your idol to talk about. And then he's like, Jason stands up with the, but wait, there's more. You know, the idol's got a brother. I was like, oh, God. I probably would have walked out. I probably don't into the fire. Walked out in safety without power. Just leave. Bro, just vote me. Hey, pick me. Vote me out. And they did the thing where, you know, the more sort of like pomp and circumstance that's happening at a tribal council around the idol, the less likely the idol is going to get played.

[00:49:22] Uh-huh. Especially with Ty's whole, like, I'm taking the idol and I'm going to sit down now and I'm not playing it. It's like, I don't know what the rules were, what production did, but this wasn't smooth at all. I think they kind of figured this out later on with some of the more ridiculous advantages that we get after this season where it didn't feel like, it was so choppy. This really felt like the rules said, like, you must state that you're handing this off to someone else for their possession. You know, I think there's even a moment when Ty takes out his idol where Aubrey's like, can I see it?

[00:49:52] And he gives it to her. But that's not the same as Ty being like, and now this is yours to keep and you can keep it in your pocket and hold it if you don't want to play it. You know, so, I don't know. It just didn't have any finesse. Yeah. Yeah, it's a messy vote here with the four votes for Debbie, three votes for Sydney, and then the two votes for Scott. Yeah, but Debbie goes here and like I said, I think this is definitely the correct plan for Julia at this point. Like,

[00:50:22] I've been critical of her flipping to this other side. But yeah, going and voting out Debbie is like, whatever. They now know where the idol is. They won't, nobody's going to be mad at her for this happening. Like, what is Scott and Jason going to say? Like, hey, you voted out the wrong girl. She's like, okay, but she's a girl and she's gone. So, what do you, what do you care? And then the women, she voted with them. So, they're still like, all right, you know, she has kind of like plausible deniability. Like, what are you talking about? I got, what are you, I wasn't going to flip. I don't know what you're talking about. Debbie, Debbie's crazy.

[00:50:51] Y'all are all crazy. So, yeah, it works out. Interesting vote. And another one in Korong. Ooh, Rob, did you notice the Neil with the Dirty Harry ice cream shirt on? Yes, Australian Survivor. Is it the same shirt that Dirty Harry wears? I don't think it's identical because I think Neil's was black and white, but Dirty Harry, I don't know if you know this about me, I'm a big Dirty Harry guy. Yeah. I'm not a big Neil guy. So, I was really hoping that Dirty Harry hit it first.

[00:51:21] He did not. No, because I think that Australian Survivor, I think that 2016 was the first year of Australian Survivor. Was he paying homage to Neil when he wore the ice cream shirt? yeah. Is he a twin? My Survivor fame. Yeah. Huh? Is Harry a twin? Oh, no. I hope not. Maybe, I think Harry works in ice cream as well. Yes, yes, he definitely does. Yeah, popular occupation for Survivor players. For sure. Yeah, Eric Reichenbach

[00:51:50] had the ice cream with Ice Cream Scooper, so that's at least three. At least three. That's enough. It's a pattern. Yeah, that's enough. Okay, so, I listened to the exit interview with Debbie and Debbie, you know, of course, talking about how she was not firing on all cylinders, she didn't have glucose in her brain. Maybe the most interesting thing was that I asked Debbie, will you play Survivor again? She said, no, no, I will not. She said

[00:52:20] that she did not swear, but she, for all intents and purposes, said she is retired from Survivor. Debbie lied? She lied. I don't know if she, if at that point, she must have known. Yeah, it's April, she is gonna go, I feel like they start filming game changers in two months. She definitely knows. Wait, so while this was filming, they already knew they were going on game changers? I never thought. Because I think they go and they film it

[00:52:49] right after this ends. So, like, for, you brought up like that run it up Reno. They leave to go to, I feel like Anna Kate was telling me about how like Ty and Caleb were going on Survivor game changers. Oh my God. It never even occurred to me that they knew at this point. Because, if I'm Aubrey, you know, the Aubrey and Michelle kind of battle that's happening amongst the fans, like, I don't really care.

[00:53:19] I'm about to go play Survivor again. You know what I'm saying? Like, I got round two of this thing happening. But yeah, it never even occurred to me that it happened so close in succession. Yeah, I think they probably are filming Co-Rong by, or Game Changers by June of 2016. And Co-Rong is air, this is April, so it'll be over in May. So yeah, they leave right after the finale, basically. Yeah. I mean, that's typically how they end up doing the even-numbered season is that they leave right after the,

[00:53:48] you know, spring finale. Oh, look at Debbie. Just a liar. But again, not shocked. Not shocked by that. I tell everyone, this is the coach archetype. Whatever she says, believe the opposite. Believe the opposite. So, it was a fun night at the Survivor Know-It-All's, and it was the first live show back for Steven after he was away during Survivor Second Chance. And we were back at Caroline's on Broadway. And so, lots of fun stuff

[00:54:18] to go over. But a fun panel. Lots of survivors in the audience that you had. Jeremy was there, and he was there along with Natalie. And there was so much, there was interesting things. Like, we're talking about Tony, and they're both gonna go have interesting experiences with Tony. Both of them very high on Kyle Jason also. But I totally could see Natalie Anderson hanging out with Kyle Jason. Like,

[00:54:47] that's her kind of guy. Right, right. No, that makes sense for her. All the people you just named, though, go off to go play the Traders at some point. You know, so it's funny that you had, you basically had the live show as like the casting pool for the Traders in the future. Nobody knew. Was Steven still high on Molly and Percocet? No, he was not high. He's had his crutch, but he was not high on Percocet. Ethan Zahn was there also. He was high. Never mind. Yep. And then also, we had,

[00:55:16] Josh Canfield was there. Okay. Okay. Yeah. That was okay. Nice little group at Caroline's. Eliza was not high on Kyle Jason. She was really, she was really down on Kyle Jason. Sometimes Eliza gets it right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sometimes. Billy Garcia was even on the stage. Hey, BG. Uh, that's pretty cool. I wonder what he had to say about this episode. My favorite part of the whole thing was that Billy Garcia,

[00:55:46] because I, I noticed that, like, Billy Garcia, like, made a real face about the super idol. Um, and apparently he didn't, he did not like the super idol. Uh, and I had said to him, like, oh, is that, was that a big issue for you? That was the one thing that stopped you in Cook Islands was that you will have the super idol. That was a big, a big problem for you, Billy. I'm surprised he didn't powerbomb you off the stage. He's, listen, he has a good sense of humor. That is a,

[00:56:16] that is a cruel joke. It's like, he would have had it too if it wasn't for that. If it wasn't for you having the super idol, he would have had it. He would have had it. He would have had it. He would have had it. So, yeah. Yeah, fun stuff. And the crowd was really excited. I remember when they had the immunity challenge. It was a good one to watch in front of the live audience. I remember this day that I did this, Chappelle. It's something that is, something that haunts me to this day.

[00:56:45] I cracked my thumbnail that day, the day of, of this live show. It is still, it is, I keep waiting for it to grow back normally. And it just, there's like a, like I have a, like a little, like tiny split in my thumbnail. Like an indention? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what a dention is, but basically it's just like, it's just like a little like crack in the top of my thumbnail and it happened this day and I just like, eventually it'll grow and it'll fix,

[00:57:15] but it always, before it grows and heals, it, you know, it cracks in some other way. I've seen people whose like nails fall off, you know, they like slam it in a door, door or something like that and then it turns all black and purple or whatever and it just falls off. It doesn't look anything. It's just like, it's a little bit, there's just like a little tiny crack in my thumbnail. That happened on this day, April 13th, 2016. Well, at least it's tied to a good memory. Yeah.

[00:57:44] It haunts me. This might be the first downside of Survivor Co. Wrong, you know, I mean, another medical emergency. it's appropriate that I suffered, I too suffered an injury during this. I needed Dr. Peter to come look at it. You were harmed. Where's Dr. Peter? I have harm. Where's Dr. Rupert? Yeah, where's Dr. Rupert? Yeah, I'm sure somebody could fix your nail but it's probably not bothering you. It's a character builder now, right? Like, that's what it is. Steven was really

[00:58:14] down on this move also. He was like, this was a horrible move! What were they thinking? A horrible move for who though? For Aubrey and Sidney and he really, he was very down. I think we begrudgingly got him to give the fishy to Aubrey in this episode. I just don't, I can't see a world where this is horrible for Sidney considering the guys were about to vote for her. She's essentially about to get three votes. I wouldn't leave it up to a chance that I would get a fourth one or, you know, a fifth one for that matter.

[00:58:44] So, you know, it couldn't be me but what do I know? I didn't play Survivor. He was very fickle. Last week, he said that Sidney made a great move flipping on the guys and I'm like, I feel like she was in a good spot and then he was very much like this is a horrible position now. I think people are actually looking at this as a girls versus guys alliance type structure because otherwise I don't understand why anybody couldn't understand what happened last week as far as like with Sidney. I think that's definitely

[00:59:14] too early but because this, it's not guys versus girls. You still have Joe. The numbers are not split evenly. You know what I'm saying? Like there's not like, yeah, exactly. So yeah, if you're looking at it like this is guys versus girls and you're not counting that Joe is all, is never going to vote with those guys then yeah, I think you could like quibble with some of the stuff but I just, I don't know. I think this was fine. I think that they did what they needed to do to survive this vote. I don't think they should have been in this position and they wouldn't have been had they waited

[00:59:43] just one more week. They could have voted out Joe last week and then voted out Nick here and they'd be fine. Listen to this. A secret scene from this episode is called Kill the Chicken. This secret scene takes place immediately after they return from the reward challenge. The losers and Julia contemplate killing and eating Mark the Chicken to spite the men especially Ty. Debbie describes in the confessional the graphic details of how she would like

[01:00:12] to devour Mark. Meanwhile, Ty overhears the tribe talking about eating Mark and worriedly calls out for it. They were going to murder Mark the Chicken over this. Is Oh, let me just be let me shut my ass up. Were you going to ask is eating a chicken murder? Is that I was not going to ask that question but I was going to ask is this fair play

[01:00:40] in the sense that they been pouring out the fire blah blah blah like if we're doing psychological warfare is eating the chicken a bridge too far? Tit for tat. I mean, yeah, that they would like many people would just eat the chicken. It happens to be Ty's pet. Would that be going too far? Yeah, that's the question. I think so. I think so. They had Mark the Chicken at the Chinese takeout reward

[01:01:10] and I was like you can't have him that close to orange chicken and not like this is that's actually disrespectful. I think that's more disrespectful. Just if I'm Mark just eat me instead. You know, like why like why you got me watching my brethren get ate up like this? I don't know. I think it's too far because the intention behind it is bad, right? Like if we're starving hey Ty it is what it is the chicken was put here for this purpose. But if we're not starving and we're just doing this to spite Ty to harm him for something that he's connected to like this

[01:01:39] then I think that that's a little that's a bridge too far. Yep. This is the 450th episode of Survivor. Okay. You were the 100th person voted out. Yes. Right? Last week's episode In all stars. Yeah, yes. Last week's episode was the 100th know-it-alls? Yes. I believe you had hit the 100th Seinfeld episode with Akiva? Yes, that was coming up.

[01:02:11] And 450 episodes of Survivor. Okay, I'll take it. Okay, all right. So, yeah, the 100th episode of the Seinfeld podcast I got into a big fight with Akiva because I called him a nerd and he got very offended about that. Because Akiva is not a nerd. He's not a nerd and he He's not a nerd. Yeah, he was really he got really upset about that branding. He's not a nerd. He is a jock. He likes sports. He's not a nerd.

[01:02:41] He likes sports. He's not a nerd. You can't be a nerd if you like sports. That was You can't be a nerd if you like sports. It's just true. It's just I mean, Rob, why were you being so disrespectful to my friend and yours? He's the winningest basketball fan in all of human history. Right. Which means he is not a nerd. Yeah. Okay? Don't get a twist. Okay. Don't put him in the locker, Kyle Jason. He's not a nerd.

[01:03:11] Do you remember the show Stump the Schwab? Yes. That guy knew everything about sports. Yeah. And he was definitely not a nerd. Not a nerd. If you know everything about sports, you're not a nerd. Yeah. The Schwab, not a nerd. Yep. All right. Chappelle, what's coming up for you? Nerdy shit. Yeah. On Recap Kickback, we're now talking about House of the Dragon, which is pretty nerdy. Yeah.

[01:03:41] Not my normal cup of tea, but the people wanted coverage of it. And so that's what we're talking about. Me and Mari over there discussing this most recent season of House of the Dragon and also the most recent season of Interview with the Vampire. Chantel and I are knee deep in our flavor of love cinematic universe. Watch, and we are starting this week Rock of Love. And so that's going to be a good old nerdy time, I'm assuming. And then, you know, just other shenanigans

[01:04:10] on RecapKickback.com, YouTube.com slash at Recap Kickback to keep up with the podcast. Make sure you subscribe and show me some love over there. All right. We got episode 10 coming up for Survivor Call Wrong. I believe coming up on Monday. So get ready for that. We've got Ty coming back to the light side after his dabble with Scott and Jason. Super Idol shenanigans are coming up on the way. Hope you join us for that one. Looking forward to seeing what you have to say in the comments.

[01:04:39] Take care of a good one. Bye. Yay to Bruce, the streaming king. With quantum fiber in the net, he's gonna binge. He wants more. He's got to have more. More bedtime to ride. More podcasts in the shower. Quantum fiber, Wi-Fi has the power. More, more, more.

[01:05:08] Fast internet speed. He's got the geeks to go big. Bring him the games. Right now. And his royal wig. More sports, non-stop. His quantum fiber's on top. Hey, we go. Switch today at quantumfiber.com. Limited availability, service and speed in select locations only.