Kaôh F***ing Rong Rewatch Ep 1

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[00:00:51] Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cesternino and we are back here and we are kicking off something big here this month. I wanted to watch an old season of Survivor. It was in the hands of the fans. They voted and they said it was in the hands of the fans. They said, go back to Survivor. Co-wrong. Here we are. It's 10 years later. I'm so excited to welcome you to a brand new series that we are calling Co-Fing Wrong.

[00:01:19] And I am back here with the guy. This is wrong. I don't want to be right. We're here with Chappelle. Chappelle, how are you? I'm good. I'm great. This is going to be so F-ing wrong. So F-ing wrong? Not Co-F-ing hard. Co-F-ing wrong. And Chappelle? We're in the middle of Co-wrong. Listen, we don't need no more heat, baby. We need some heat. We need some heat. We're going to bring some heat to this season rewatch.

[00:01:46] You know, this is 10 years since Co-wrong and also, you know, right on the heels of an iconic Survivor 50 win for one of the main characters here. Spoiler alert! Yeah. Yeah, let's get into it. We gotta go back. We're just jumping in from Co-wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Okay, we will be... This is full spoilers. We are going to talk about the outcome of Survivor Co-wrong. We're going to talk about the outcome of Survivor 50. We're here in the present and we're asking you to come along with us.

[00:02:13] You don't have to rewatch. It would be nice. It would be nice if you rewatched. So, we are going to be bringing you a recap every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here as we go through the month of June and talk about some Survivor here. And this is fun. You know, I've never... We've never done a rewatch. We've watched whole seasons in a week, but we've never watched one episode at a time except in the real time. Yeah, and this felt really good.

[00:02:42] I was watching this and the whole... I don't know. I mean, I have some theories. But yeah, it felt really good to go back and watch one of these seasons from 10 years ago. Yeah, I have some theories too. Yeah. Yeah, I think we kind of got similar theories. But yeah, I'm imagining that people might really enjoy this because so far, one episode in, I'm having a good time. Yeah, and I don't think we've ever talked about this season, right? This was not one of the seasons you watched with us on the Top 40 Countdown, one of the few that you didn't watch.

[00:03:10] First of all, I did not watch the majority of them. Thank you. But yeah, this is not one of the ones that I got to watch. But I remember... I think I remember vividly Jenny Autumn talking about this. And so, yeah, not to reheat her nachos, but I'll be seeing if I could take a stab at it. Listen, that I'm sure at some point in this series, I will be having thoughts that I think are original thoughts that I've said before somewhere along the way. But this is an interesting season to rewatch.

[00:03:38] We let people have a vote of which Aubrey season should we rewatch. This was the overwhelming favorite. And people most wanted to see us talk about this. It makes some sense. Aubrey just won. It bookends Aubrey's Survivor career. It's also 10 years since Survivor co-wrong has just ended. It was about 10 years ago that in these very Survivor streets, we were debating Aubrey versus Michelle. And so, so much time has passed.

[00:04:08] And both of them have gone on to have such interesting reality television careers. So we certainly can look back upon all of that. But it is also, I think, fun to take a look at where Survivor was 10 years ago and to see where we are at now. A little bit of just like that. Mary Ann talked about this in the podcast that we did a couple of weeks ago.

[00:04:29] And I think that she called it a phase shift drift of just like when people are having numerous cosmetic procedures. My family just saw the Michael Jackson movie. My kids were asking about this. But dad, why is, why did, but they saw Michael Jackson when he was young. And they said, but dad, why did he do this?

[00:04:52] You know, people, they just, they lose, they lose the North Star of where they, and they keep doing, they keep making changes to things. And it's a good check-in to see exactly where we were 10 years ago. Yes. And it is a little jarring to jump back into co-wrong after watching so many seasons of the new era of Survivor because this feels very different. You know, I don't think I've ever been one of the people who's been like, bring back the new era.

[00:05:20] But there were definitely moments where I was watching this where I was thinking, well, this is kind of nice. I kind of, I kind of like this. I was looking around like, why don't we do more of this? What happened? What happened? I don't know, Rob. Did we lose the North Star? Maybe. We'll talk about that. That'll be a big plot point that we discussed. But I would just love to hear just overall going into this. Do you have any thoughts about co-wrong this season, Chappelle? Hmm. Okay. Stand out to me.

[00:05:50] It's like one of the, like you have to see Survivor co-wrong. Comma, but there's also a lot of interesting characters. You know, in the first episode, I don't know if it's just, again, the formatting of the old era of Survivor or if it's just the people we got. There are some big, big personalities on this season. We know there's going to be some dynamic gameplay. There's going to be some controversy at the end with the winner. I think there's a lot to talk about in co-wrong. And so that's my favorite thing about this is that I'm going back to revisit this.

[00:06:19] I think I've probably seen it a couple times. But I'm going back to revisit this and far removed from it. So I'm excited to kind of relive those moments. Yeah, this is the third time through for me. I watched it in the real time and then I did it in the top 40 countdown. But I think that this was probably closer to the top half. And I think I might have been just a little bit in a fugue state at that point. And I don't have a lot of memories from my rewatch from the top 40 countdown.

[00:06:45] So I am looking forward to watching it and enjoying it a little bit more piecemeal as Mother Nature intended it. In terms of that co-wrong and its production, it is so interesting because it's the one season that was filmed out of order in Survivor history. Where after Survivor 30, they film Survivor co-wrong. It's originally season 31. And then they decide to do the second chance vote. And then they switch the seasons out of order.

[00:07:12] And so it's actually quite some time from when they film Survivor co-wrong till when Survivor co-wrong ends up airing. And then after that, we get what? Millennials versus Gen X is next up filming-wise. And so, yeah, there's a little gap between those two seasons because of Cambodia. But I really think that this kind of feels right. It feels right for if we're going to be following up Cambodia, we need a season with big personalities,

[00:07:42] a season with people who aren't afraid to play. Because I think Cambodia has a lot of high highs. And you can't just follow that up with just anything. And so I think co-wrong is a perfect season for that. Well, it might be the season that is the most successful season that ends up reversing the curse, as was the name of the Survivor 50 finale, where Survivor, I feel like, has really struggled historically following up one of its big all-star seasons. And I think that when you take a look back at the season that follows up,

[00:08:08] I know Vanuatu has found an audience and an appeal. But in the real time, it was not received particularly well. Survivor Nicaragua was not a beloved season. Survivor 41 certainly had its struggles. And so that there is always a... It's hard to follow up. But I think that with co-wrong, by filming it before the other thing, they didn't have to worry about trying to live up to the expectations

[00:08:37] of a big season that just came before it. That's a really good point because co-wrong, with it being filmed first, you're not like, how do I top it? How do I top 31? How do I top Cambodia? We get Millennials versus Gen X, which is fine. It's good. I'm in the same vein of co-wrong. Big characters, big moments. But then after that, something goes completely off the rails with Survivor. I mean, no disrespect to the cast of Survivor Game Changers,

[00:09:07] Heroes, Healers, and Hustlers, Ghost Island. But that's a hell of a run right there. And it's not great. It's like since co-wrong missed the curse, after Millennials versus Gen X, we went back and got all the kind of rough seasons out of the way before we found David versus Goliath. Well, this is the last run of seasons that is Survivor moving around the world. And I really feel like, you know, after season 20 in Heroes versus Villains, they film those back-to-back in Samoa. Then they sort of just start going like,

[00:09:36] Samoa, Philippines, Nicaragua, Samoa, Philippines, Nicaragua. And they keep bouncing around between the other ones. They land here in Cambodia. It's the last time Survivor is going to film anywhere besides Fiji. You know, to speak to what you bring up in terms of, okay, you have Millennials versus Gen X, and then we really start to go off the rails. You know, one of the things that we do talk about in The Tribe and I Have Spoken is that the forever Fiji kind of is, I don't want to say breaks Survivor, but it sort of like really forces them into a box

[00:10:06] where that they're like, okay, well now we have to come up with a gimmick for every single season. And so eventually in the new era, they just throw out all the gimmicks. And then it's just, okay, now it's just numbered seasons after that. So we don't have to like box ourselves in to the gimmicks. Yeah, but there's got to be like a happy medium somewhere. And I think Koran probably lands on that, right? Because it's a place, but then it's also a gimmick. You know, we get Brains, Beauty, and Bronze, but we also get the place. But you're right.

[00:10:36] And I think we get lucky, honestly, with Davids versus Goliath. I think that could go very wrong. You know, the Davids end up doing what Davids do. They get these trinkets and, you know, these little things that help shift their opportunities in the game, help them last a lot longer. But had the Goliaths came in and just like demolished them all across the season, it would suck just like Edge of Extinction and Ghost Island before it, you know? So I'm just saying, maybe there's something to pick a destination,

[00:11:06] make that the extra cast member or the theme or whatever. And then just pick a good cast and let them cook, you know, because everything after Millennium versus Gen X is kind of rough. Okay, so this is Survivor co-wrong. We lead with the location, but it's also, we go back to the well of Brains versus Beauty versus Brawn. It's only been three seasons since they did that, but this is the follow-up season to,

[00:11:35] of course, in Survivor Kageyan. This was really celebrated where Philippines had a two, but Survivor Kageyan really was very much like, okay, well, this is great that we have these three teams and they're divided by something. Mm-hmm. And they lean into it. You know, I remember the jokes that people made back in the day. You know, like, as a blank, I have to do this. You know, as a this, I have to do this. I'm a beauty, so I'm only allowed to use my beauty when it comes to Survivor, and I'm going to have everybody falling in love with me.

[00:12:04] I'm a brawn, so I got to be strong. You know, like, we got that. And it happens in Koran. They really like it. But I do think it gives a lot of the characters moments where they can talk about themselves. I feel like in the new era, not to just keep going back to comparing it to the new era, but in the new era, I feel like within 10 minutes of the episode, we're already doing what? We're probably in our second challenge, probably, of the premiere. Well, let's talk about it, because you brought it up, and I'm thinking it too, but we have a marooning at the start of this episode,

[00:12:35] and we have everybody on the boat, but basically, they're off the boat very quickly. Basically, we just get right into it. Jeff says, okay, these are the people, brains versus beauty versus brawn, and basically go. And this was a 90-minute episode, and it was really great. And really, if this was, you know, and normally, we have in the new era, a lot of times it's a two-hour episode, but it's a lot of, okay, we hear from everybody, and then Jeff gives a speech,

[00:13:04] and then there's a lot of, all right, you in the hat over there. Okay, you in the blue shirt. Tell me about yourself. And it's like, okay, whatever. Who cares? And then we do a challenge with everybody, and it's a challenge, like, for what? Of like, okay, great. We did a whole big challenge, and now you got a pot. Great. And then it's like, now the people that didn't win a challenge, now you're going to go off and now have more challenges. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, because you can get a pot.

[00:13:35] Yeah. Or not. Or you could lose your vote. And then, in which case, now you better hope you don't go to lose the next challenge, because we're going to have three in the premiere. Yeah. You know? What are we doing? What are we doing? Like, all of this, like, survivor foreplay. Let's just go. It felt so refreshing to just watch these people talk to each other and just, you know, even just comment on each other, just whether it was, you know, Caleb being like, why is Ty here? He's an old man,

[00:14:05] and I thought this was the beauty tribe, or even Michelle being like, look at Dick, you know, he looks hot, you know? Like, just giving them moments. But where's his body hair? Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. But giving them moments to just talk and to strategize, but also get to know each other, you know, again, never been one of those shelter people, but watching them make the shelter was kind of fun. I was watching them, and I was like, huh, look at them. You kind of see Debbie stepping up and being like, I'm a shelter person, and here's why I'm good at everything. And then watching her be bad at stuff. It was funny,

[00:14:32] and it wasn't just convoluted by, all right, now you got to go paint yourself in fake blood, and we're going to take away your, you know, your challenge, your whatever. We're going to give you an amulet. And then the three of y'all from different tribes who don't even know each other, everybody's supposed to care about this moment between y'all all sharing this secret. It's just like, it's so much that I feel like Korong is almost like the perfect balance for a premiere of just character moments with strategy. Yeah, it was a lot of camp life, and it was good. And we didn't need,

[00:15:02] we weren't missing any of this other stuff that we get. And I was just like, oh, this is really hitting. I really feel good about this. And so that was, I was very pleasantly surprised. I kind of forgot. You could kind of just start. It's like, we get it. It's Survivor 32. Yeah. I really, I really enjoyed this. I felt bad too, because like three, maybe like five minutes in, I go, am I too low on Korong? It's Korong one of my favorite seasons. And I think,

[00:15:31] no, it's not that. It's just that this felt like the Survivor that, you know, we kind of grew to love. And so now that we have an abbreviated version of this, they don't have time. There's only so many days. They got to get these people moving. And they can't, we can't focus on building a shelter because somebody has to go find a beware advantage. And they have to go and dismantle a puzzle just to get, you know, we're doing so much in the little time we have. And I'm like, man, I really wish you could just stop down and just kind of smell

[00:16:00] the coconuts here on the island. Yeah. And I feel like we got to know everybody. I really think that there wasn't really anybody that was super purple in the premiere. And I watched the know-it-alls that we did that night. And I was saying to Stephen, like, wow, three tribes, 90 minutes? Like, this is perfect. It's like, that's like, boy, Rob, if you could hear yourself 10 years later, maybe you don't think that. Oh, yeah, we don't. But, you know, the Survivor fandom, we are an ungrateful bunch.

[00:16:30] I remember these days. These were the days of like, why do we have to keep giving everybody a theme? We would be fine with red tribe versus blue tribe and then just let them play. And then the new era, it became red tribe versus blue tribe versus yellow tribe. And now we're like, wait a minute, hold on, do something else. I don't think we were sour about the themes yet. I think that Worlds Apart was wacky. I think we were sort of like, okay, but we just had Cambodia, which didn't have a theme. So... I think Heroes, Hillers, and Hustlers is the one that broke us. that's the one that broke us on the themes. I think it's like, wait,

[00:17:00] what are we doing here? That was a bridge too far. But I think that this was sort of like, it had only been now the third season since going back to All-Stars that had three tribes. So it was sort of like, we were, sometimes it was three, sometimes it was two. And it wasn't necessarily like it was predictable. You sort of had some novelty in there being three tribes. So I think that this was fine. I do think that this was the season though that where the original Brains versus Beauty versus Brawn,

[00:17:29] everybody kind of fits. And then this is the season where they start like, okay, well, we're just going to sort of just like explain it away. Some of the people that are in these different categories where it comes up in the episode. Well, Ty, he's beautiful on the inside in the beautiful, on the Beauty Tribe. And then Alicia, we don't even explain why she's on the Brawn Tribe. She tells us that she was in a cage with three tigers once. Mm-hmm. She likes the bungee jump. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:59] She's adventurous. Yeah. That's the thing, right? I mean, eventually we will have actuaries being heroes, you know? Sure. So I think this is where, you're right though, this is where Survivor starts to be like, okay, we got to make something happen. We got to make something fit. We got to figure out a way to organize these people. I think the casting is good regardless, but I think that when they go and shoehorn these people, maybe that's why the tribes are a little wonky as well. You know, like you said, they're putting people kind of fitting these square pegs into these round holes

[00:18:28] in a lot of these space cases, but it still turned out very interesting with this first group. Yeah, they say, I feel like that Jeff talked about this where they had the cast and then after they have the cast, like, well, what box should we put these people in? And it doesn't all end up working out. I do wonder though if there was ever a thought of that Alicia, who's such a big part of these first couple episodes, if they would have put her on the Beauty Tribe, I wonder if Michelle fits better on the Braun Tribe.

[00:18:57] I know that's a whole sliding doors situation. Ultimately, Michelle ends up fitting in really good with Kyle and Scott who end up being people that are voting for her in the finals, but I think even though Michelle is not necessarily, you know, brawny in terms of what she is, she goes on to, like, have a real career on the challenge and you think of her as somebody who's more, like, up for anything in terms of

[00:19:27] physical activity, she wins challenges along the way in her survivor career, I think that she would have been a more natural fit for the Braun Tribe, but I do think that they say, like, okay, well, will we be able to tell the difference between Alicia and Julia Sokolowski? And they would be like, no. But, you know, Julia Sokolowski was a college student at the time. I'm sure you could have just been like, put her on the brains. I think they really didn't really know what to do. They had these, a lot of people who could fit

[00:19:56] on most tribes, right? I think the Braun Tribe is the only one walking around being like, we're dumb. But everybody else, it's like, they could fit both sides. I think, I didn't say it, they said it, you know? But I do think that you could switch Michelle, but you could probably switch Julia too. Put her on Braun. What, what, I mean, what does, what does Alicia bring into the table that Julia cannot, Braun-wise? Yeah, that's fair. So, Julia Sokolowski was at the Survivor 50 finale. She's probably the most purple person in this episode. I think she's the purple person of the season.

[00:20:26] She might be. She, you know, has a moment or two where at, like, around the time she goes out, I think they start to talk about her, but she has the thing where, yeah, they don't talk about her until ultimately it's time for her to go. I have a very vivid memory of, I think the episode, they're about to vote her out. She wins immunity or something like that, so they can't. And, and then I think she's like, kind of like moving over with the bronze, you know, she works with Scott Pollard or whatever. But I remember you did,

[00:20:56] I think, Twish with Jordan Kalish or something. Of course. He's like, yeah, Julia Sokolowski has a stellar social game and stuff like that. I was like, Jordan, get off of her. Oh my God. She just met this lady. She been on TV all season. She ain't did nothing. Now she got one featured episode and you in love. Stand up. You think he has a crush on her? Oh, it happened. Rob, we need to go back and find the clip because I remember this and this is way before I was a podcaster. This is me. This is Chappelle driving down the street like, what is Jordan? Stand up.

[00:21:25] Oh my God. So I'm going to get a spray bottle for this man. Yeah. All right. We'll have to go back and see Caught in 4K, Kalish crushing on Julia Sokolowski. That man was aroused by a survivor social game and I was very, I thought that was very funny. I'm so sorry, Jordan. He's not listening. He's not listening. Somebody will tell him. Somebody's texting him but he's not listening. There's a 0% chance

[00:21:55] Jordan is missing any survivor content, Rob. Yes, especially if we're talking about Julia Sokolowski. I mean, what do you mean? He's going to learn a few more things to talk about in Twitch this time around, you know? This is girl. This would have been such a natural conversation icebreaker when I saw her a couple weeks ago. I know a guy who thought you had a crazy social game. I mean, we only saw you on screen three times but he really keyed into what you got, you had going on. Yeah. Should we talk about

[00:22:24] the three tribes that we meet in this episode? Yes, I forgot some of these characters are iconic, Rob. I'm sorry. This episode is brought to you by Prime. What if you had one more chance with the one that got away? Damn. You came home. Based on the best-selling novel from Carly Fortune. Every year after follows childhood friends Sam and Percy as they reunite in the dreamy, nostalgic lakeside town of Ferry's Bay. Love can be hard to find.

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[00:24:23] Upfront payment of $45 for a three-month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at MintMobile.com. Well, let's start with the brains because, you know, that's where we're going to find the star of this rewatch. I mean, we're talking about Aubrey here. Yeah, so baby Aubrey is here, and this is, you know, what a wild ride. It's not a great start for Aubrey,

[00:24:51] who we don't really meet until later on in the episode. It's like 25 minutes in, I don't think she has a confessional, until ultimately we see everybody working, and as Sydney told you that Korong, it's hot. That's sort of the season that has, it's one of the hottest seasons they ever did, and a lot of people are dealing with the exhaustion from the heat, and we see Aubrey fading. Yeah, she was faded.

[00:25:21] She's faded. Yeah, exactly. She starts off like, man, it's hot, and then very quickly she's like, it's hot, and all these people are new, and I don't know how I feel about being trapped on the island with all these new people, and it's so hot, and it's so hot that I think I'm giving myself an anxiety attack, and these people are new, and I don't know if I'm ready for this, and then it just starts to spiral, and we watch, you know, obviously a Survivor legend, but in her infancy, you know, she's like, if you saw, show somebody one episode of this, you would not say, hey, this person will go on

[00:25:51] to win a, you know, landmark season of Survivor. A five-time legend of the game who will go on to win. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. But she has a rough start, and I think that that's something that was a common denominator in all of her Survivor appearances, but I think that what's interesting about Aubrey 1.0 versus Aubrey 4.0 is she talks about being very much in her own head, and so she is not feeling well, and she also was not feeling well at the start

[00:26:21] of Survivor 50, different circumstances where she had some sort of, like, head cold situation in Survivor 50, whereas this is, like, some heat exhaustion, but the heat exhaustion turns into a bit of an anxiety attack where she's really sort of, like, in her head spiraling, okay, oh, now I am not feeling well, and now I'm gonna be the person seen as the weak person, and now I'm gonna go home, and it's not working, but I will say that I do feel like that where

[00:26:51] Aubrey certainly had some, I don't wanna say difficult moments, because she did not, she did not have any sort, I do not feel like that she had any sort of, like, anxiety issues in Survivor 50. I feel like that she had some difficulties fitting in, but she did not, she did not have the same type of issue, it seemed like that she, whatever she was dealing with in Survivor Co. wrong, it seems like that she beat this, she grew out of this.

[00:27:21] Yeah. She got off the couch. Yeah. And I think it's crazy to say that, but you know, she did, she's talking about how she's a social media marketer, and she's like, I've never done anything like this, so she gets off the couch, and she's like, damn, it's hot, you know, and immediately she's trying to, okay, I gotta figure this out, you know, we have clips of people kind of tending to her, but also talking about her as a weak link, and so that is something that is never really talked about with Aubrey ever again, you know, like after Co. wrong,

[00:27:50] that's not really her identifier, yeah, she's a little neurotic, and you know, she might overplay a little bit if that's the edge of the extinction story, sure, but then for Survivor 50, it was never that, it was, Aubrey's not fitting in on the tribe, she's on the bottom, let's see what she's gonna do about it, and she managed to fight herself out of that hole. Yeah, I just thought that it was really cool to see the growth from where she really was dealing with, okay, I'm overthinking this, and I'm in my head, and the fact that I just,

[00:28:20] I don't think of her at all in Survivor 50 as overthinking and being in her head, and I just, I love that for her, because I, as a, somebody who is self-admitted, you know, can be prone to overthinking, like, whatever she did over the course of this, whether it was Survivor or otherwise, she comes back to Survivor in season 50 and does not seem to be having that at all. Yeah, and she's battle-tested,

[00:28:49] you know, she's, like, Aubrey comes in, like, that was her fourth time playing, so there are some people who, this is their second time playing, they've played one time, they've never even watched themselves play, but Aubrey has not only watched herself play, but she's watched herself lose a couple times, you know, like, and I'm talking about from different areas, you know, losing in final tribal council, getting voted out pre-merged, she's, you know, made it to the finale, and like, you know, like, Aubrey's seen it all, so she's got her hours in, you know, you put that much work into playing Survivor,

[00:29:19] you would think you stop making some of those same mistakes, you know, not everybody is able to reverse the curse, we saw what happened with Ozzy and his 18th time playing, but, you know, with Aubrey, look at her, she was able to kind of learn and grow and I'd be terrified of Aubrey if she played again. Yeah, and reverse the curse, that was the name of the finale episode where she goes on to win in Survivor 50 and I thought that she had a really interesting quote recently and I saw it got clipped from Drop Your Buffs where they had a clip of Aubrey talking

[00:29:48] about Jonathan and Jonathan's reaction to Aubrey winning and she, I'm paraphrasing here, but she said that basically, you know, what Jonathan thinks about me is none of my business and that is not the way that this Aubrey 1.0 would be looking at that situation. Exactly, exactly, but she learned the hardest way possible, right? She goes out here, plays hard as hell, thinks she deserves to win, watches a season

[00:30:18] that pretty much depicts her as deserving to win as well, she has legions of fans arguing online, fighting about how she deserves to win and she has to sit with the idea that she did not win and that none of those people's opinions matter. The only people whose opinions matter were the people who are on the jury and they did not pick her and so because of that, she's the most equipped person in the world to talk to Jonathan about how he's feeling and she needs a Jonathan because Aubrey had that narrative around her and Michelle for so long that she needs somebody

[00:30:48] like Jonathan being like, it should have been me because now she can stand up as the person who did come out triumphant and be like, no, but keep your head up because your day could come one day. Yeah. So that's the extent of what Aubrey is dealing with that there's actually a lot going on in that brains tribe that we have people where it's going to ultimately end up being pairs where we have the pair that I felt like was really or the people that were really in the middle that we have, obviously, we have to talk

[00:31:17] about Debbie. Got to talk about Debbie. You know, what a character. Coming in hot. I remember when Debbie, when Debbie hit the scene, people were like, oh, it's just coach. It's coach. And like, we said it was just coach, but we didn't know it was literally just coach. You know, she will go on to prove herself to be a coach archetype for so long she will play multiple times and she will never stop being ridiculous starting in episode one. Yeah. It's really a fun ride

[00:31:47] here with Debbie all through Korong. I mean, you know, you have so many people with Game Changers where they come back so quick and Debbie is one of those four people that they bring back just like, you know, right after Game Changers, right after Korong ends and then the second go around with Debbie not nearly as fun as the first one but she arrives here really fully formed. Ridiculous. A ridiculous human and she's fun. hilarious television. You know, she talks about

[00:32:17] all her jobs. I think I remember the podcast debating whether or not she said caretaker to none or caretaker to none. Caretaker to none. In the Paramount Plus closed captioning it clearly says caretakers to nuns. To nuns, right, because, you know, I don't know why anybody would brag about not being a caretaker for anybody. I don't take care of anybody. I'm my own person. I have all these jobs and I just focus on me, baby. But yeah, I still haven't quite figured out how she takes care of nuns. Like, what do they need? Like, is there like a house mom

[00:32:46] at the monastery? I mean, maybe she brings them food or something. Maybe after she gets off of her shift at Red Lobster, maybe she's like, hey, would you like some endless shrimp? I know Chappelle doesn't. Would you like some Cheddar Bay biscuits? You know, Chappelle does, you know. Barry on the Debbie experiment. But, you know, Debbie comes in and she's at the bottom of this Brains tribe.

[00:33:16] And so I really, Rob, I really want to point out that the people at the top of this tribe lose the game. Like, they actively go out and lose. And I was listening to each tribe kind of explaining the dynamics. I'm like, how did y'all all fumble this? Why is Michelle and Aubrey sitting at the end with, like, how did this Final Three happen, you know? Yeah, it's a wacky season that they're going to really implode the Brains tribe that we have Liz Markham who really has a lot of control here early on. And I went back

[00:33:46] and I was listening to the Survivor Know-It-Alls because Steven did play a big part in her casting. And so the story is, for anybody who's a new listener to the podcast, maybe wasn't there through Survivor Co. Wrong, Steven met Liz Markham on OKCupid. And they had a couple of dates and yada, yada, yada. Steven put her in touch with casting for Survivor. They know each other, biblically. Well, he didn't talk about that. Potentially. Potentially. Potentially.

[00:34:16] It's on the table. But yeah. Look, you get me on Survivor, you know, maybe I'll bet her off. Yeah, I think at that point you got to break me off some. You know, I thought this was so funny seeing Liz Markham here because every time I see her, I think, hey, that's Steven's girlfriend. You know, former, you know, love interest, whatever the case may be. I don't know if it was... I don't know if we solidified it. We consummate anything. I don't know. But it is very fun to think about the world where Steven Fishback is out here like, hey girl, I can get you on Survivor

[00:34:46] and then he does. I don't think it was like that. You don't know that? I don't know that, but I think it was more like, hey, you know, you should like, you seem like you would be good at these types of things. What a pickup line. You see, you found Nicole very quickly after going on Survivor. You didn't even get to use your clock. Wow. I know. Yeah. I know. Steven's out here just wheeling and dealing. What's wild though, he also talked about how that then she had gone to Cambodia first and then he was,

[00:35:14] he too was going to Cambodia and so he got to ask her questions about what kind of footwear to bring to Cambodia and he said it was a horrible recommendation and she had bad advice. Well, I mean, it doesn't go great here for her either, but I will say this, a standout character in the first episode. Liz Markham is like dominating the screen time. She's great in confessional. She's funny. She's smart. I mean, she's a pre-merger, but bring her back. Yeah. And she's also there in this brainstribe

[00:35:43] with Dr. Peter Bagenstos and it's very much on the page where he is clocked immediately as being a doppelganger for then-president Barack Obama. In the moment, like when the cast previews dropped, is that what people were saying or was Debbie the first one to kind of point this? I think people were saying it prior to that. Although, he looks more like Obama now than he did

[00:36:13] because now that Obama, I feel like, I'm trying to remember at that point in time, but he is like way more gray now and so maybe he looks more like current Barack Obama. Yeah, and him and Liz, they have such a great idea. They say, look, we're young. Let's take out these olds and just run this thing to the end. And I'm sitting here watching episode one thinking, okay, Debbie should be very easy to vote out. Who's really going to cape for Joe that much except for Debbie?

[00:36:43] This should be a breeze. And I know that these two people are the first ones voted out of this tribe. How did this happen? Yeah, well, there's going to be a flip that we're going to talk about in a couple episodes, so be on the lookout for that. Then there's also, we mentioned Aubrey. Neil is the other person who is very much... Boo! Oh, you're booing Neil. Why? Boo this man! Because of his speech to Michelle at the end of the season? It's the worst moment in Survivor Series.

[00:37:14] It's so bad. I think in the moment, I think I was like doing a Survivor draft or something back then and I drafted Neil and I was like, this is fine. You know, this is fine. It could be worse. You know, things are good. He gets to that finale, well, not the finale, but right there before the finale and completely embarrasses me. Don't ever say some shit like that again. You think you're a bad bitch, Michelle? You're just a baby sucking on the teat. I was like, what is he talking about? What is this man talking? Get him out of here!

[00:37:45] In San Juan del Sur, Reed, he does do a read of Missy at the final Tribal Council and it aged well. People liked it. They didn't like it when it happened, but they've never come around on Neil. They didn't like it then. It's so bad, it's good. It's so bad, it's good. Like sometimes I just want to like text Jenny and Pooja like, you think you're a bad bitch.

[00:38:18] You're just a baby sucking on a teat. On the teat? This is an ice cream scooper. Sir, have some decorum. Yeah. Milk product, you know? Sucking on the teat. Sir, I'm not coming, I'm not buying ice cream from you, sir. Did he sell the ice cream company? Yeah, so I thought, yeah, I thought that was his thing, right? Three scoops, wasn't it called? Let's see, Neil Gottlieb ice cream. Three spoons? Yeah, it was three something. Three something?

[00:38:48] Yeah. Three twins. Three twins. Three brothers. Yeah, something like that. Three twins, yeah, I think that was his whole thing and I don't think it's a thing anymore. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, I need the ice cream pants. Oh, it's, ooh, we lost it during COVID. We lost so much. Oh, okay. Yeah, closure as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. Yes. Yikes. Okay. Fun fact, the name Three Twins was a nod to its creator, his twin brother and his brother's wife who's also a twin

[00:39:17] and the brand is known for publicity stunts like creating a $3,300 world's most expensive sundae. $3,300? Did anybody purchase this? All you need is one. All you need is one. Listen, why make, you know, $2 ice cream when you make one $3,300 ice cream and all you need is one person to buy it? Maybe COVID is not the reason why we didn't make it. Maybe. Maybe.

[00:39:48] Do you think that Neil Gottlieb sent Aubrey a congratulatory text for her win in Survivor 50? Dear Aubrey, you think you're a bad bitch. Is this, is this in poor taste? You want to go through the cast list real quick and see, did this person from Survivor Call Wrong congratulate Aubrey? Yes. Okay, so number one, Neil did not. You don't think so? Because he was Aubrey's friend. Yeah, he was Aubrey's friend until he got medevaced and Aubrey's sitting there like,

[00:40:18] please, Neil, give me your idol and he's like, no. Everything happens for a reason. Everything happens for a reason. I'm sorry, baby, I can't help you. You're going to, listen, in 2026, you're going to thank me for this. Yeah, one day, you'll see. You'll see, you have to earn it, you have to go on your own path. So, okay, Debbie, probably not, right? No? No, no, no. Joe? Joe Del Campo? Absolutely, absolutely. Aubrey loves a Joe. If Aubrey ain't going to do nothing else, she's going to make sure she's sitting next to a Joe at the end, okay?

[00:40:47] She's going to die trying. And so, Joe Del Campo? Definitely. Liz Markham? No. Probably not. She's probably not watching. She's done. She's done. She's blocked Steven and moved on. Dr. Peter? Nah, maybe? Mm-hmm. I don't know. Is he still on these streets? Have you ever met Peter Baggestops? I never. I did an exit interview, never met him. Okay, how about this? Okay, I'm going to give you the entire Braun tribe. Did anybody from the entire

[00:41:17] Braun tribe text Aubrey? Sydney. Sydney hooked her up. Yes. Because Sydney owed Aubrey at least a text because the fact that Sydney did not vote for Aubrey in this season is actually insane. Yeah. I remember you interviewing her and being like, Sydney, why didn't you vote for Aubrey? And she was like, because she voted for me. And you were like, but you voted for her too at the same time? Y'all went to fire. And she said, yeah, but I told her if she voted for me, then I wasn't going to vote for her. I wasn't going to vote for her to win. She's like, but you voted for her. She's like, yeah, I know. I don't care.

[00:41:47] I didn't say it was logical. And since that day, I've loved that woman, but she definitely owes Aubrey a text. Ty Trang, I saw a picture Aubrey posted that he visited her in person. I thought she went to his house. Oh, I think they've, I think they've been going back and forth. I think that's, that's, that's a tale is, you know, one of those like, like quantum entanglements. They're, they're, they're good together. Michelle was at the finale. So was Julia. What an anecdote. An anecdote. Kate send Aubrey a text. I don't know about that. I don't know. She, maybe she sent it,

[00:42:16] but I'm hoping Aubrey blocked her. Um, I don't know. I don't know, man. They, they probably, speaking of tap, they probably watching that lady's phones. No, they probably give her a new phone. Um, and then also, uh, Nick Meyer out of the Mayo jar. That might be interesting one. Yeah, he had to do it. He had to do it. Cause Nick's like, how do I make this about me? I appreciate that for him. Yeah. Can we get Nick on the podcast? I remember when you used the podcast with Nick. Yeah. I'm sure he has opinions. Yeah.

[00:42:46] We'll see if he wants to come on and talk about, uh, survivor co wrong. And can he get us Peter bagging stocks? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe we'll, but maybe we'll see if we get, uh, Nick somewhere along the way. All right. Uh, so. We did. We cover everybody in the, in the brains tribe. I mean, you, yeah, the brains tribe is pretty much, uh, covered. I mean, you know, like you, like you said, we kind of paired up here. Um, Neil and Aubrey at the bottom, Joe and Debbie are at the, at the other bottom. And then in the middle, supposedly running the game. Uh,

[00:43:16] the first two boots from this tribe are, Obama and Liz Markham. Expedia and visit Scotland, invite you to come step into centuries of history that await in Scotland. Castle steeped in legend, walk along cobblestone streets, come share the warmth of stories passed down through generations.

[00:43:40] This is a place with a past that is fully present today and all yours to explore. Plan your Scottish escape today at expedia.com slash visit Scotland. Let's talk about the beauty tribe because I know we'll end with the Braun tribe because they have the most to do when they go to the tribal council. So for the beauty tribe, uh, we really see a lot about Ty. Ty is so great here in this premiere. And I feel like that he's another person. He comes back on game changers, just doesn't hit the same,

[00:44:09] but he's so good here in this season. He's so good. He's so good. Like it's no, there's no question in my mind why they brought him back in even episode one, you know, with Caleb saying, like, I don't understand why he's here. And then Ty going on to show you why he's here. Right. We see him doing, he's got so many layers, right? Like not only is he just like super like a kind person, everybody's talking so highly of him, but he's also, you know, caring and for like the environment. And he's talking about how he cares about the trees and the plants that people,

[00:44:39] and he's talking about being a gardener. He's talking about how he loves his boyfriend. Like you get so many layers from Ty. And then he's also kind of outdoorsy, you know, he's climbing the trees, like the things that you like from Ozzy or for some of the more, uh, you know, like the standard survivalist. You're getting that from Ty too. Uh, the one thing you really don't get from Ty is just like this cutthroat gameplay. But I don't think you want that from a character from Ty, like Ty anyway. Uh, uh, and so this works perfectly for this. But he is going to be, it's going to work because he's on such an interesting journey where that he

[00:45:06] does make maybe the most cutthroat move of the season when that he's holding the half idol. And you know, Scott Pollard is like, Hey, all right, give me the idol. And he's like, no, I'm not going to do that. Yeah. So he, nothing. So it, it really works for Ty. It does. It does. But then that's like his heel. Remember he has a heel turn too. In the season, there's a moment where I think they go to, they pour out the, pour the water on the fire or something like that. And Ty's like, yeah, that's what we do it. And then the next episode, he's like,

[00:45:36] what am I doing? So it's, it's so much. There's so many layers. It's like a rollercoaster ride for Ty. It's good. It's a rollercoaster ride. And then he ends up ultimately befriending Caleb Reynolds, beast mode cowboy. What was your reaction in the real time when they put beast mode cowboy on survivor? I think I just wanted to know why, like of all the people to make the cross, the jump from big brother over to, uh, to survivor. You had Hayden Moss, winner of a big brother,

[00:46:06] iconic winner. Uh, you know, and then you have Caleb who, you know, had an interesting time on big brother. Um, most notably stalking a woman, you know, uh, just, they were like, yeah, that's beautiful. Bring him on. And then on top of that, they said, let them play again. And I just don't understand what survivor was doing. Yeah. It really was a vibe at one point in time where I don't know if, uh, who, whether it was Lynn Spillman or if there was somebody,

[00:46:37] some CBS executive of like, Hey, we need to cross the streams. Okay. Uh, we need to get people from, uh, amazing race and big brother onto survivor because you have Hayden plays in season 27. And he does really well. Then in Natalie and Nadia end up coming in and playing in season 29. And then right after that ends up, uh, then they film season 30 and then it's like, okay,

[00:47:02] and now let's bring in another big brother person here for the next season that we're going to shoot. And then I think then there's nobody else, right? Then they, uh, go away from it. Yeah. I mean, they send Sari over to be the ambassador the other way. And then she comes back. But aside from that, no, that was it. And you know, who was probably the most upset about Caleb being cast on this season? Frankie J Grande. I bet he was pissed.

[00:47:29] Frankie has been openly applying for a survivor for decades only to get cast on big brother. And then watch somebody who's strategic inferior. And, and I, and I saw like television inferior, get cast on big brother. I mean, on survivor on his show twice. They did it to stick it to Frankie. And nobody can change my mind. All right. I know. Yeah. No, that's the only reason. Why else would you pick Caleb twice? You had to,

[00:47:58] this was, this was CBS being like, Frankie. They love, they love him so much. Why? Why? Why? Why? That's a good question. But yeah, no, no, no, no. I will say this. I don't understand the jump from survivor to big brother, but I mean, big brother survivor, but I will say this once he got on survivor, the friendship between him and Ty is one of those survivor stories. It's, it's just a story that survivor will lean into time and time again. We got this person and this person. They're so different, but look at them working together. You can talk about Steven and JT,

[00:48:28] but you can take this all the way back to Richard and Rudy. It does seem at this particular moment in survivor history, it feels like that survivor is really starving for that. We need a blue collar hero. That's really what we need on this show. And they get Mike Holloway and Jeff is so over the moon about Mike Holloway. He calls the world to part. It's going to be the best season of all time. And then here comes Caleb and he comes in and he's, he's a cowboy. It's like, Oh my God, we found him. Oh my God, this is incredible.

[00:48:57] And he's great. And we love him so much. And then he ultimately gets medevaced. It's like, we got to bring him back like as soon as possible. It's bring, bring him back at the first opportunity we have, even there's like a car that goes on the screen. That's like, don't worry. Caleb will be back soon. Caleb coming back. And they bring him back right away. And then they, they fall over themselves for, Oh my God, we found Ben Trebergen. And so it just really feels like, I don't know if it was Jeff or they had some sort of a focus group of like, Hey,

[00:49:23] that survivor needs to be about these blue collar guys coming in and just dominating everybody. That's what people want to see. It's probably an underrepresented, uh, you know, winner, like archetype. I don't think there's a lot of those. I mean, the, the ones that do are the ones that you're talking about. They come in and dominate, right? They're the ones who like, they win because they lead with an iron fist and everybody's so loyal to them. And they just kind of go and lose at the end to them. But, uh, yeah, I think, uh, since Boston Rob,

[00:49:52] they probably just been trying to kind of fit that, fill, fill that, that void. And they haven't been able to do it. Like you said, Mike Holloway wins, but I mean, I don't know if anybody was like, that's our guy, Mike Holloway. It was just kind of like the alternative was all these evil people that he's playing with. But specifically like a cowboy type, like they really, like they love this so much at this particular point in time. They even brought back JT right after this, right? They bring him back for game, game changers. And that went great. It doesn't go great.

[00:50:22] Yeah. I mean that there's like a evolution of like, you know, Rob and Russell and Tony. um, that that's, I feel like that, that there's more like similar, like DNA there, even though Tony is a Southern guy. Uh, but it's a little bit more of like the, I'm going to play the game and be sort of like the, like evil, uh, evil adjacent type player. Whereas the, like, uh, these, uh,

[00:50:52] country guys, they really just, they love it. Well, big brother does a really good job of finding country icons. You know, they're like, they're going to find somebody with a cowboy hat because they have to, every season is contractually obligated to find somebody with a Southern draw and put them on multiple times. Right. You know, that's probably how he ends up there where I think that, you know, you have Mike Holloway who wins in season 30. They're casting this right after Jeff's like, Hey, we need our, we need our, you know,

[00:51:21] Southern cowboy type. Where is he? We need this guy. And then Lynn Spillman is probably like, you know what? I got somebody. I got a guy. I got a guy. Right. I got a guy. I just saw him. Uh, let's get, let's get him in there. And, and that's probably how he ends up on the show. It makes sense. I mean, what are they going to do? Bring in Donnie Thompson, you know, like, uh, the, the, like I love Donnie, but I don't think this is his game. I want to see Donnie play big brother again. Uh, but you see Caleb come was interesting. I will say that. Okay.

[00:51:51] All right. Um, let's talk about the, the three women who are on the beauty tribe. And let's start with our winner, Michelle, who, uh, doesn't have a big storyline in the episode, but she does clock some things in terms of, uh, noticing about the guys and who's doing what Nick, he has no body hair. Yeah. She comes in and is like, Hey, I'm attractive and I'm looking for attractive people,

[00:52:20] but we do get, you know, sprinkled in like her, just her reads. I think she has a lot of commentary and very early on when I was watching Koran, I saw the online discourse where people were like episode two, like Michelle's got it. And I was like, how are y'all, what are y'all talking about? This lady has done nothing yet. What are you talking about? But that's when I found out that this season was heavily spoiled. And then the edge people were, yeah, the people, the edge people had already, like, I don't know if they pieced it together or if somebody leaked it,

[00:52:48] but at that point they started like really pushing the, like, no, you guys don't see what Michelle is doing. Y'all aren't seeing. I'm like, okay, but why are we, why do y'all keep saying that? And then I, I think some of the people were pointing out, like after certain challenges, they cut to Michelle's opinion, even if she doesn't, even if she wasn't even in the challenge or like, she doesn't win the challenge, but they cut to Michelle. Like, let's see what Michelle has to say about this. So I'm really excited to track kind of like the Michelle of it all, because she is the winner here. And I think it was a deserved win.

[00:53:17] So I didn't know about the spoiler part of it. Uh, I knew heavily about the edgic people and, and I found the edgic people to be very annoying during this. They were the worst. The worst. Where, uh, and the fact that you're saying that some of them were spoiled also is super, and they're like, that was like the first season of Australian survivor where that people were like, like, Hey, wait, wait till you see what Christie is going to do. She's going to, you're, you're a horrible at, at, at commentating on, and maybe perhaps that's the case, but like,

[00:53:47] don't tell me like, like, Oh, she was making all these great moves. And just because she's the winner, that's ultimately what happened. But the people, this was the first season that I really started to sort of like get what they're, they're going, they're saying in the edgic of, in terms of giving things to Michelle that, that like, and this isn't a knock on Michelle in any way,

[00:54:10] but just in the way that they could pick anybody to give these certain moments in the season too. And they often give them to Michelle talking about like, what's coming up next. The craziest one that I can think of off the top of my head is when, when she gets the advantage to, to expel Neil, Neil Gottlieb from the game. And he does his bad bitch speech. She gets the hashtag. Mish has spoken. Michelle has spoken. And I was like, what,

[00:54:39] what are you talking about? What does that even mean? I hope there's still any episodes. Oh my God. I hope they didn't take those hashtags out, but yeah, it, it like pops up at the bottom of the screen. I thought, I mean, yeah, she voted him out of the jury, but she didn't kill him. You know, like I think it's fine. But the Michelle has spoken was supposed to be the moment. And I thought, I just remember thinking it fell so flat, but they were doing it for a reason. And it was hard to see, you know, hard to ignore all the edgy people saying like, it's because she's the winner. And so she goes on to win.

[00:55:08] Michelle is one of my favorite survivor players, especially after the second time she plays the winners at war. I really like get a real, like a affinity for Michelle, but also watching her play the challenge. I think she's just a big character. She's not afraid of conflict. She's, you know, going to play hard and she's a fun, she's a good time. I think Michelle is probably one of the most fun people that's probably played survivor. So it's good to watch her play this first time too. She's a fun hang. Easy to get along with good vibes from Michelle. Good people. You can tell. Yeah.

[00:55:37] So speaking of good people, Anna Kate is also here. My favorite part in this episode with Anna Kate is she talks about that. She's like tie. She's like, you know, I really, I really feel like I could relate to him. He, he really just, he loves all living things. I, I really, I, I can very much relate to that. It just seems like, uh, such a, such a kind spirit. I really could see myself getting along with tie. Yeah.

[00:56:09] She, she does some, a shift, I would say in her personality after this season. Yeah. I think while she was on the season, then she was very much one way, but then, um, think things change for Anna Kate drastically. And I, I, I, I don't really know what her current status is, but last time I checked, I think she's like a conservative, uh, influencer right now. I don't know if her entire triangle and, and, uh, connection at this point, but I would,

[00:56:38] I highly doubt it. I have not heard much about her. Uh, that I feel like that she was really at the peak of her influencing powers a couple of years ago. I think that she has been relatively quiet in the 2020s. got off to a big start and then very quiet in the 2020s. I think. Can I, I just looked her IMDB up. Would you like to hear, uh, an excerpt from it? Sure. Anna Kate is a Christian, a Christian conservative who was not programmed, categorized, or easily referenced.

[00:57:07] Born in the Soviet union during the cold war. She immigrated to the United States with her family at four years old, poker survivor. She becomes a Christian, uh, conservative with a passionate love for this country and began working as an undercover journalist for Project Veritas and other similar organizations. Through her investigations, multiple communists were exposed and fired from the Department of State. She is an active patriot speaker, writer, and voice for truth and freedom in this generation.

[00:57:35] IMDB mini biography by Anna Kate Hurstow. Wow. Is that recent? Is that updated? Uh, I don't know when the last time she, she touched this, but yeah, she, she did her own bio for IMDB. I guess that's one way of making sure they got right. She was a firebrand at one point. I'm not sure. I do, I do think that she has, that the trail's gone cold, I think on Anna Kate and what she's been up to. I've not seen many recent, uh, news items about her. It sounds like it might've been government mandated, the trail going cold.

[00:58:06] So we're just going to let it, let it be. We're just going to let it be. I hear she might be entitled to some compensation. Maybe she, maybe she is. Uh, again, I'm not going to speak on it because it's up in the air. Right. Please don't sue me, Anna Kate. Yeah. All right. Anyway, so, uh, she's here. And then also the Mayo jar, Nick Marano, who, uh, ends up being that a fun, a fun person to have on this season, um,

[00:58:33] doesn't have a huge story in the season. He's a really good narrator though. You know, cause, cause Nick is giving the producers exactly what they wanted. When they cast the beauty tribe this time around, like the first time they did it, they, they didn't cast too many beauties that were just like full of themselves. Right. We get, um, we get not Jeffra. What's the other woman's name? Um, Morgan. We get Morgan. Who's kind of like, I'm hot. The rest are on high. You know, that's it. Jeremiah is kind of cool. You know, like the LJ, they, they just, they chilling.

[00:59:03] Yeah. But then it Bryce is chilling. You know, like nobody is really full of themselves. Nick Marano, Marano comes. It's like, no, we named this season brains, beauty and bronze because I was here and I am the beauty. And I get to tell you why I'm beautiful and why it's so great that I'm here. And he really leans into that character. So we get a lot of, please will somebody just lean into the theme, please. And he's got it. He's got it. Let me go. Yeah. Let me cook. Let me cook. He said, this is what I was born to do. I'm beautiful. Yeah. What do you mean?

[00:59:32] So they're all getting along pretty well. And then Ty goes and looks for the idol. And then they're upset with Ty. He's gone out and looked for the idol. And he knows he screwed up. He's like, I was gone for 30 minutes. It always, it's always questionable to me when survivor players put like a timeline on things that they do, Rob. There was like, you know, travel council lasted for four hours. Like, how do you know? Do people just know? You don't know. You're guessing. 30 minutes. Like Ty, you could have been gone for two days. You don't know. Four hours. Yeah. I'm just saying, whenever they say that, I'm always like,

[01:00:01] is somebody clocking this stuff? Does anybody watch? Time flies when you're having fun. Right. Ty was probably out there looking for days. And then they were like, you know, this is kind of weird. So he's at the bottom two now. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's talk about the brawn tribe and what's going on here. Cause there's a lot of drama here. This tribe is a hot mess. I forgot that we got the bug attack in the first episode. I know it was the second episode. Cause Jennifer's going to go home in the next episode. Uh, I was surprised we got into this. And you know what?

[01:00:30] And I forgot also that we actually saw the bug. Yeah. Yeah. They got a good, they got a good clip of it coming out of her ear and it, this is some good editing because it's hard to watch. It was hard to watch the first time. It was hard to watch this time. Like they keep cutting to her going like, ah, Oh my God. Yeah. She's like falling on the ground. I was like, I don't know why. I don't know my instinct would have just been like dive into the ocean and hope that it rinsed out. I don't know. I might go deeper in is like,

[01:01:00] I got it. I don't want to drown. It's in your brain. Yeah. Um, how did they get it to come out? It looked like she just laid there until it got tired of digging into her ear. Yeah. Maybe gravity. Maybe it was like, uh, you sort of just, but, but her ear was like pointed up when it happened. Yeah. I thought no way they got the actual shot of the worm coming out of her ear, but it looks like they did. And also the cameraman who was filming the worm, like coming out of the ear and nobody was doing anything. Right. He probably filmed it going in her ear too. Probably.

[01:01:30] Like, Hey, you see that? This is going to be crazy when she wakes up. Yeah. This sucked. Yeah. No, I feel so bad for her. It was really horrible. I'm glad they got it all out of the way in the, like by day two. Universally, this is one of the hardest things to watch on Survivor. Like I think everybody watched this scene and was like, Oh my God, like just, just kill me. Yeah. This was really gross. I don't think we've ever had anything close to this again. Right? No, no, that's it. That's it. And you would think it happened more often, honestly, considering the type of game. All right. Let me ask you,

[01:02:00] what is the hardest thing? let's, let's, let's go to physical trauma only. Let's not get into any like emotional trauma that ever happens on the show. Is this the most disturbing physical thing to watch happen to a person? It depends on your mileage of watching Mike scoop and fall into fire. No, people like that now. Yeah. It's come back around. Yeah. It's like a kink now. Yeah. Yeah. Burn me.

[01:02:30] Burn it. Yeah. Watch it in a loop on Tik TOK. Yeah. Smoking a cigarette. Mike scoop and pack. Yeah. No, this is, this is pretty bad. This is, I can't think of another one. Cause most of the medevacs are, you know, like, you know, exhaustion or something like that. We don't ever see anybody like break anything. You know, I think we, we watched that one man fall off that rock, Matthew, the new era, but I don't know, man. I don't, I think this was, this is pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah. This is like,

[01:03:00] you gotta, you can't look at it. Yeah. I'll take the secret. Yeah. No, the secret was like, I guess if you have like a snake fear, but that wasn't like super gross. And we, I don't even think we got to see the actual shot of the snake biting him. Right. We just got a shot of a snake. I don't even know if that was the secret. That was just a secret. The snake. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Uh, we've Scott and Jason and you know, Scott and Jason, obviously not the warm and fuzzy type. Jeff has talked about this, uh,

[01:03:29] quite a bit recently of look, we don't cast villains. We don't want villains. We don't want bad guys on the show, but I think this was the last time that you really had people who, and maybe you could say maybe like a Joe Mena was like, uh, trying to give you this. He was trying to, he was trying to, but these guys, like they really fed off of each other and they really did give you sort of like mean bullying behavior.

[01:03:58] Are these the last survivor, like villains? Yeah. I, in the book, that's real. I give them the credit of it. They're like, they're, they're really the last ones, you know? Yeah. Cause even Joe Mena was, you know, he was loyal to his allies. Yeah. And like, you know, he like tried to get the votes on them so Desi could survive and all this other stuff. Like he wasn't really a villain. None of the Tony clones really end up being like having, uh, that bad of an attitude. Uh, it's really these guys and they feed off each other.

[01:04:28] Yeah. And it's bad from jump, like immediately because, um, Kyle Jason says, uh, yeah, this, uh, blonde chick. I don't like her. I'm not even gonna learn. I'm not even gonna learn her name. I'm just going to call her Blondie. And I mean, I remember the internet, you know, we were, we were still young in our survivor internet, like, uh, social media days. It wasn't, we weren't that, that far into it, but people were like, Hey, I don't like this. Yeah. We started to push back.

[01:04:58] There were like the, the think pieces. I think, I think y'all did a round table here on RJP potentially. I don't think so. I think that if anything, I, I remember I got like a little bit of heat for not being more pro Alicia, not coming more to her defense. Oh, see, I thought this was when I thought there was, no, that wasn't in worlds apart when, uh, when it was to sure. Oh yeah. Uh, there was, there was a panel about Dan Foley and Will Sims, but, uh, there was,

[01:05:28] we didn't do any, uh, special podcasts about Alicia. We really could though. We really could because yeah, looking at this Scott, Scott, he's just kind of being a jerk. Right. But he's being a jerk to a, a woman who is smaller than him, much smaller. And, and, and him being a jerk to her because she is also small. Right. And she seemingly is just doing nothing but existing. And so between him and Scott Pollard, just kind of like teaming up and being like, okay, who are our first victims? Let's,

[01:05:58] let's point it at Blondie. I was really surprised that she makes it out of this episode alive. Yeah. The show also though, dunks on Alicia also. Absolutely. So the show doesn't really do her a lot of favors. I don't feel like where the show, I think does not, and maybe she doesn't give them that. I feel like that part of the issue is that the show doesn't really play her as, um, at least not here. And maybe it does in later episodes as a sympathetic character, character, that, you know, she sort of like, uh,

[01:06:26] is of like the Kat Ederson mold where I think that the show is sort of like, uh, laughing at her at certain points where the name of the episode is I'm a mental giant. And so I think that they are not necessarily pro Scott and Jason, but they don't really play her plight to, uh, the degrees that maybe they could have. Yeah. The show was leaving her out there to get dunked on. And Scott and Jason are, I mean,

[01:06:55] Scott specifically is probably catching this alley-oop and taking it, you know, all the way. Um, so yeah, this is, uh, this is bad though. It's not great. I watching it back. I was like, damn, they, they kind of suck. Yeah. I think that the, the show and maybe this is me putting something on them that they're not really saying, but like, I think the show is a little bit kind of on Scott and Jason's side. I think, right, right. Yeah. No, I agree. I think I, cause it's like she,

[01:07:23] her mindset is so opposite of everybody on her tribe that she doesn't even have any defenders. You know, like, uh, like even if you look at the people who are not bullying her, they're also not coming to her. Hey, there's a moment where she's talking about how she can do the challenge. She's like, I'm not good at puzzles. And they're like, we're all not good at puzzles, but you got to believe in yourself. She's like, but I'm not good at puzzles. She ends up swapping out of the puzzle at some point. And they're like, Oh, why would this girl who's not good at puzzles? Not at least try to do the puzzles. She's like, I'm not good at puzzles, but this is not the team for that.

[01:07:53] This team is like, no, you were brawn. We just like smash it over and over again until we figure it out. They got mad at her for saying she couldn't do puzzles. Like, don't say you can't do it. I'm like, but wouldn't you be happier that she did admit to this being something that she's not good at before? Is she like, like, I mean, look at how they do Darnell. He's like, I can swim. I'm a great swimmer. I used to be a lifeguard. And then he loses the mask. And I'm like, Hey, you said you were good at a thing that you're not good at. Meanwhile, she's like, I'm not good at stuff. And I'm like, stupid ass Alicia. They,

[01:08:22] they hate her. They hate her yet. She stays. Uh, which is, yes. Uh, but so I guess let's, let's start to bring, you know, Darnell and Sydney into this as, uh, we talk about that because this was like really one of the more hosed, uh, first boots in survivor history where you have a big, strong guy in Darnell and he would go on to become an even bigger and more stronger. Uh, I do wonder maybe if there was like, so like I'll teach the brawn tribe.

[01:08:52] I'm going to be, I'm going to be the brawniest of the, of the brawn tribe. Yes. It is wild. I interviewed Sydney, like earlier, uh, I think in the fall I did interview with Sydney. And then I asked Sydney, like, who's a professional, uh, you know, bodybuilder. I said, Hey, Hey, what do you think of Darnell? He got really jacked after the season. And she's like, I didn't know that. Yeah. She's like, she's not tapped in. What? She has no clue. Meanwhile, we think that's the headline here. yeah. Cause I think Darnell, he's a tall guy,

[01:09:21] but he looks very thin. Right. kind of like in the Jalinsky mold where he's, he's mostly height, but after the season, Oh no, this man is huge. I am terrified of Darnell. Uh, would never, you would never catch me messing with. I mean, like I think him and Scott Pollard about the same height and Scott Pollard played in the NBA for 13 years. Yeah. So yeah, Darnell, he's doing great, but although he gets done dirty here. Right. And I, that's what I said, the gameplay in this episode is very odd to me because, um, him and Sidney,

[01:09:50] Sidney votes with him to vote out Alicia, but she's not blindsided. She's trying to actively change people's opinion at tribal council to get them to flip to Alicia. But she was in the majority. She's been working. She's working all sides. She's working with Scott and Jason, uh, but she's not able to save Darnell in this moment, but Darnell, like, I just feel like even with Scott and Jason, why would y'all vote him? I mean, yeah, he was a, he was, bad in this challenge, but you don't even like Alicia.

[01:10:18] And you have to imagine that if I had to put them in multiple scenarios that Darnell just off the strength of being like tall would be very beneficial. It seemed like that. And it's, it's a little bit in the episode, but I also, like, I looked at, I was really trying to get to the bottom of this. Like, do these guys ever talk about like why they're making the decisions that they make? And so Kyle Jason allegedly was, he really, Sidney,

[01:10:44] he was very close with Sidney and he wanted to break up Sidney and Darnell and wanted Sidney to not have any other options except for him. So he really wanted to work with Sidney. So he really wanted to work with Sidney. And so he didn't want Sidney to have a person that she was closer to than Darnell. And it, but it's a weird vote to where he, that, that Kyle Jason does vote with Sidney and Darnell against Alicia. Uh, but then on the revote, they all vote for Darnell.

[01:11:15] Right. It's so weird. Why is this happening in the first vote? Like, what are we doing with a tie? All of a sudden, it's, it's a unanimous flip. Like everybody knows, okay, well, if it ties up, I don't know if they're just waiting to see if like maybe Scott will go with them. Are you trying to flip Jennifer Lanzetti? I don't know. We don't really get to see too much of Jennifer Lanzetti's perspective on the vote. Other than she's just so happy that the bug's not in her ear. And then she's where you're like, just tell me what we're doing at this point. That there's a moment where there, there's a question of does Darnell have an idol?

[01:11:45] And then that they ask Alicia, do you have an idol? And she's like, maybe I do. Maybe I don't. Oh, so that, so this was them slitting the vote in case she had an idol. But, but I think at tribal council, so I think that Kyle Jason says he's, he's flipping his vote. Yeah. I think Jennifer Lanzetti even said at one point, like, I don't want to vote out Darnell because Darnell gives a really impassioned, you know, plea, not the most impassioned plea we will see from this tribe.

[01:12:11] Jennifer Lanzetti will stand up later on and I will have a good laugh at that. Yeah. But yeah, Darnell is like teary eyed and people are patting on the back. I'm thinking, okay, maybe we got some momentum here. Nope. They just vote them out. Yeah. They even go to a commercial break. I'm like, Oh, three, yeah, nothing. They just vote out Darnell and it's such a weird vote. It's a, to me, it's just like strategically. It's kind of weird. If you thought you were going to keep the tribe strong to win challenges, I don't think this is the optimal choice. And we will find out that it is, it's definitely not,

[01:12:40] but to Alicia's credit, she was on and survive the next vote too. So good on her. Good on her. And it's unclear what the guys are doing with Alicia because they don't like her. And I think that they feel like that maybe they can control her. And it's unclear if it's sort of like, Hey, we're going to do like a Russell thing where we'll just keep her around and tell her what to do. I didn't remember this offhand, but on the know-it-alls,

[01:13:08] I had mentioned that Kyle Jason said the only person who ever played this game correctly was Russell Hance, where he was like a very fond, he was very fond of Russell. He was a real Russell disciple. Did they know each other? No, I don't think so. Oh, okay. I thought he was one of Russell's recruits. He seems like he could have known Russell, but I think he was just a fan of his work. He was a copycat. Yeah. And it doesn't quite hit the same because I think Survivor was all in on Russell.

[01:13:38] I don't think Survivor was all in on Scott and Kyle Jason here, especially because there are so many other rootable people in this season that they're really going to latch on to. I mean, these guys are not going to make it to the end. And the tie story is very compelling. The Aubrey story is compelling. Michelle is the ultimate winner here. So yeah, they're just going to fall to the wayside. It's almost, almost forgotten villains in Survivor history. Not quite, but they're teetering on the outskirts. They're very much here to be the heels in this season.

[01:14:07] Absolutely. Absolutely. And they know it. And they know it. They're not even trying to pretend that they're not. Yeah. They're reveling in it. So the fact that we're talking about them 10 years later, this was, this was by design. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Anything else from the Braun tribe? No. For, for me, the Braun tribe is just, just, it's so funny that they just fall apart so quickly. You know, I think the Braun tribe and, uh, and the first time we did this, Kageyan, they were fine. You know,

[01:14:36] the Braun tribe was a disaster tribe. They tried to throw a challenge. Yeah, exactly. But this, this is, this is pretty bad from the Braun tribe, especially considering they haven't been asked to do a lot of heavy lifting. I mean, no pun intended. I mean, they should be fine right now. And they're just going to make a lot of interesting decisions. Yeah. There was an interesting thing in the challenge, in this opening challenge, where that we had this a little bit in the late twenties, where that there was like an option that you could do, that they had this in worlds apart,

[01:15:04] where at the, the final stage, and this is what's wild, is that the Braun tribe was losing. And then there was a puzzle, but instead of the puzzle, they had a thing called the dexterity challenge. And it's a thing that they do a lot in that, like where that you have to basically, I think Kim Spradlin does this in when survivor one world, where there's like a stick and you're like putting things on the, like the, the bowls and a disc.

[01:15:34] And you could have done that instead of doing the puzzle. And the Braun tribe does not decide to do that after all the debate over the puzzle. It's not even a debate. They didn't try it. Alicia literally says, I am bad at puzzles. Yeah. And they don't care. They do not care. They just decide to do this ridiculous puzzle. And then they lose. And I'm like, damn, Alicia, you're dead weight. It's like, or, or you could have made a better decision. I'm questioning a lot of things about this tribe.

[01:16:05] And then also you had, there was talk about the strategy of who's going to do what in the challenge. And you know, somebody is going to have a really disaster challenge. When you see them talking about who's going to do what. Because we really pay attention to the person who's like, either I really want to do this part, or I don't want to do this part at all. And for this time it was Alicia. And so our eyes were on her as she, she fumbles, but you also have Darnell on the flip side being like, nah,

[01:16:35] put me in the game coach. And then he loses the mask. It was just like a slow moving car wreck for both of them. Yep. The mask, they were really down on that. They were down on Darnell with his aqua dump. Also. If you have to be known for something, I guess, because that's kind of Darnell's identifiers. He's the guy who got voted out the first episode after he did the aqua dump. I'd much rather have that than, you know, what we saw from the great Christian Hubiki as not making it to the water.

[01:17:05] But, you know, I don't know. There was a, it was a weird choice. He was very close to the shore. He was very close. And they were really all just like talking to him. And he's like, Hey, I need some reading material. Well, he was talking about going with his gut. And then very quickly he's like, and my gut says I got to use the restroom. And he goes out there and ends up in the water. Yeah. I thought that he, maybe that could have been a Franken bite, but it seems like he did say that. I mean, he, he had his own segue lined up. Now, I just don't know why he didn't go into the, into the, into the forest. You know,

[01:17:34] like if everybody is standing on the beach, I'm going to go in the opposite direction of where they are. He kind of goes into their eye line. I think he was further out than it looks. It's a power move. It's a power move. You, if you go, you know, number two in front of like a group of people, it's like, all right. All right. He's making eye contact with us. This is, we have to respect this now. And then you can't accuse him of looking for an idol. It might actually be a really good move. You know, it's like, you know where I was. I was right there. It didn't work out for Darnell, but somebody else should try it. Yeah. We got a,

[01:18:04] we got a lot of blur, a lot of blur. We almost saw his whole ass. He showed his whole ass in this episode. Shows his whole ass. And we also saw Alicia, when she goes to vote, she tried to vote with the cap on the marker. Again, survivor just kind of like, they didn't have to show us that, but they wanted to show us that. They wanted to show us that. They needed to show us like, listen, I know you feel bad for Alicia, but isn't she kind of wacky, right? Don't you kind of get it? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was like, no cap, no cap, no cap. No, no,

[01:18:34] no, no, no, no, none of that. None of that. What was that guy's name on Million Dollar Secret? Not Artie. He had an interesting name. I get what it was. Yeah, no cap, no cap. No cap, no cap. That's what he did every time he said it. Anything else from the premiere of Survivor Co. Wrong? I really just cannot get over how good this premiere was. It was so good. I don't know, again,

[01:19:04] if it's just refreshing because we haven't had a premiere like this in so long, or if it was just, you know, maybe we look back on this season, season with some type of nostalgia to where like, okay, you know, the, the, the nostalgia does really give you a little bit more of a fondness. We do get to see the baby versions of some of these, um, survivor all-stars, you know, the Debbie, Caleb, a lot of returning players from the season, a lot of returning players from Corona. So there's a lot to kind of watch there and track. If you're going to be doing like a full survivor rewatch,

[01:19:33] you can kind of get the seeds of a lot of different things that'll come later on. And ultimately ending in an Aubrey win. Okay. Let's go back to the time machine. It was 10 years ago. And this was the premiere of survivor. Go wrong. I believe the premiere date was February 17th, 2016. Um, do you, uh, are you interested in knowing what was the top movie at the box office, uh,

[01:19:59] during the time of the premiere of survivor. Go wrong. I would say it is definitely a movie that you've heard of. It's a movie I've heard of, but it was the top movie of, of, of the, of 2016 or just of February. I don't think it was the top movie of 2016. Oh, of 2016. Oh, I have no clue. What is this? What are you talking about? Deadpool was released on February 12th, 2016.

[01:20:27] You could have gave me a million guesses and I would have never landed on Deadpool. Deadpool. No, not at all. Uh, what a different time. Yes. Okay. All right. Um, and then I, I was trying to give you the song also. Okay. Uh, the, the top songs of February, 2016, when you were watching survivor, co wrong, you could have also been listening to Justin Bieber's love yourself. I don't remember that one.

[01:20:57] Uh, Zane's pillow talk. Hmm. Not for me. And Rihanna's work featuring Drake. Hey, that's one of the ones. That's one of the ones. Oh, 2016 was a good year. That was a good year for music. I think you get work. You get Drake. Uh, one dance I think is around that time. Uh, the, I think, yeah, that's a good time. Good time for good time for songs. Coran was, uh, full of bops. Yep. Okay. There you go.

[01:21:23] anything else you want to talk about before we come back on Wednesday for episode two? I want to track stuff from this season. I want to, I want to find the goofiest things from this season. So I really hope the listeners are like, you know, kind of commenting and letting us know of like, okay, we're watching Coran. What should we be looking for here? And, um, you know, and also who can we get to guest? I want to, I don't want just anybody, Rob. I want people that were on survivor. Coran. Can we get the Coran's? People that get from survivor. Coran.

[01:21:53] Okay. Well, we can get the mail jar. I know we can. I think we could. I think we could. Could we get Aubrey? Is she still riding high? What's the rule with CBS? If it's like, Hey, uh, we're going to do a four hour. We never got to do our deep dive with Aubrey after survivor Coran. Cause she went to survivor game changers. Uh, could we do a four hour interview with Aubrey on Coran? And we only need one episode. So it's four hours on the episode when Neil did not give her that. That's the one I want to talk about. Yeah.

[01:22:22] Take me through what you were going through in that moment. I think you can get Aubrey. I think you could get much. You could probably get Michelle. You could probably get Michelle, right? I get the sense Michelle's kind of done talking about Coran, but she likes you. She would talk to you. Yeah, I think so. I don't think that she would do a recap, but I think, I think we could get Michelle to talk to us. I don't know if we can get her to talk to us about this. Yeah. Like we could just get her to talk to us and then just slip in a lot of Coran questions. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. So it's like,

[01:22:49] so when's the last time you talked to Peter Baggenstocks just randomly, you know, when's the last time, you and Joe Del Capo, you're all good. Okay. All right. Chappelle, what else is going on for you? What else are you? Nothing. Well, honestly a lot, but I'm mostly, you know, kicking it with you talking about Survivor and then on recap, kickback, talking about everything else. Interview with the vampire is out at this point. I think house of the dragon is starting around this time as well. And so we'll be covering both those shows and then just various other things.

[01:23:19] We're also talking about flavor of love and charm school and all that good stuff. So a good time over on recap, kickback.com. Yep. Well, I had so much fun tonight. I can't wait to do this. Uh, 12 more times. Yeah. In a row. We're doing this every day or every other day. Yeah. Uh, we, we're recording a little. And so we're, we are not able to respond to real time comments. We're recording this out a little bit out in front. So we will catch up to your comments. I promise. And we will be following them all on the way. So let us know what you think.

[01:23:49] And we'll be back on Wednesday to talk about episode two of Survivor. Come wrong. Take care of a good one. Bye. Bye. I sold my car in Carvana last night. Well, that's cool. No, you don't understand. It went perfectly real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong. So what's the problem? That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothie.

[01:24:18] I'm waiting for the catch. Maybe there's no catch. That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow. You need to relax. I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood? I think it's laminate. Okay. Yeah, that's good. That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.