Genevieve Mushaluk Post-Season Interview | Survivor 47

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[00:00:30] Hey, everybody. Rob Cesternino here and I'm so excited for another one of our post-season interviews because I am here with somebody who made such a big impression on the Survivor fans this season. It is my great honor to talk to Genevieve. Genevieve, how are you? Hi, Rob. I am doing well. Excited to be here. Yes. Life is good. Life is good. I have really enjoyed not having the anxiety spiral every Monday, Tuesday leading up to Wednesday.

[00:00:59] And now I just... Why anxiety spiral? What's that from? Well, I did this thing called Survivor and it aired on CBS on Wednesday nights and they don't show you what they're going to show of you in advance. So it's like the feeling of someone's going to read a page from your diary and you don't know which one or how many sentences they'll read or what context they'll give. So that was mainly the struggle. And now it's January and life is good, you know? 2025, baby.

[00:01:25] But you came off so well on the show. Every week it was more anxiety? Every week it was the same anxiety. Like people have asked me, what was it like? Was I so heartbroken the first few episodes to not be shown? And I really thrived as the purple princess. That is where I feel most... You like that the best. Yeah.

[00:01:45] Yes. Yeah. Because I know what I did. But I can intellectually understand that there is the experience of Survivor, which was for me. And there is the show Survivor, which is for all of us. And I don't get to control that. Yeah. All right. I'd love to jump into the time when you were the purple princess, when we really did not get to know you well at all in the very early days and kind of thought like, okay, well, this is just going to be this purple person.

[00:02:11] And we had no idea you'd be such a big fixture on the season. So I guess I'd love to know about the beginning of your journey on Survivor. All right. Let's walk through it. So I think the big thing that was a bummer to start off my Survivor journey with was I got really sick the first few days. And so the first day is when Asia goes on her journey. And maybe we'll start before that. And I'll go a little nonlinear here with you, Rob.

[00:02:42] As we lose the supplies, we're all looking around and Tuku does rock, paper, scissors or whatever to figure out who's going to go. And Lavo is just looking around and no one wants to volunteer. And I think most people didn't want to go. But Asia and I both wanted to be voluntold that we should go. I think we were the two who were really interested in going. And at one point in the awkward silence, Rome whispers like, well, I would trust you gesturing to me. And in the same moment, Asia's like, okay, if no one else wants to go, I'll go.

[00:03:11] And so I was so jealous Asia got to go because I'm thinking like she's going to have an opportunity at least to bond with whoever goes from Tuku and maybe to get an advantage in addition to supplies. And so while Asia's off, the rest of us go back to Lavo Beach and start like trying to figure out like, how do you live in the jungle? And I had not practiced fire making. I'd also not looked up how to like make a bamboo shelter.

[00:03:38] What can you eat in Fiji? All these things that would have been super helpful to know. But we get there and immediately people start looking for supplies, but also discreetly doing the survivor dance of it all and like winking and like, hi, I'm Genevieve. And you see, who do you have natural chemistry with right away? And for me, Rome saying, well, I would trust you to go was a great start for me in Rome.

[00:04:04] And then as you see in the show, Teenie and I are doing some kind of busy work and we connect really quickly. Keyshawn and I connect quickly. Sol and I don't have that instant chemistry, but no big deal. Life is still good. And as the day goes on, Asia's gone longer and longer. And so these bonds start forming and I start going, well, what do you think she's doing on her journey? Do you think there's a chance she's getting an advantage? Not to throw Asia under the bus, but just like worrying and wondering out loud.

[00:04:35] And everyone else is like, no, probably not. I'll write about it. And I think this is where I started to rub Sol the wrong way because I was very vocal immediately. And then Asia came back and she gave us a story about what the journey was. And I remained suspicious. The sole like lava holdout I was.

[00:04:59] And Asia had come back and said, the journey is I get a map. I find the first key before TK. And then we're both in the water for the last key. And he like slowly edges me out. But I gave it the old college try and it was great. Some really short version. And I just remember thinking like, this is not as detailed as I would tell a story if I had gone on a journey. I would have walked everyone through. I'm a talker to you, as you can tell. This is like the world's longest answer.

[00:05:28] But I just remember being so sketched out by it. And that was like day one on Lavo. So that's how things started. And all the relationships went in different directions from there. Okay, so ultimately, and tell me if I'm missing anything in between that point and the point where Asia goes home. In this show, it's really presented as, okay, should it be Asia or should it be Saul?

[00:05:53] Rome has the advantage and there's some talk about maybe, okay, maybe we should put the votes on Genevieve from their perspective. And the show really presents it as Kishon and Tini are kind of in the middle between you and Rome are on one side. Saul and Asia are on the other side. From your perspective, is that how things actually were? Yes-ish. Yes-ish.

[00:06:18] So I would say it was pretty clear that it was a 2-2-2 dynamic on Lavo from my perspective. Because what also happened that wasn't shown is a sort of day two, the 2-2-2s form. And you can tell Asia and Saul have incredible chemistry. They get along so well. Tini and Kishon and I had good chemistry. I also had good chemistry with Rome.

[00:06:46] But Tini and Kishon were closer with each other. I feared. I didn't know that, but I feared it. And so one of the things that confirmed this for me and sort of put me or made me realize I was on the back foot was Rome had found his idol. And I wake up to Tini telling me, hey, wake up. Rome's going to come and tell you he found an idol. He busted me showing it to Kishon. I'm not supposed to tell you yet because he wants to tell you. So act surprised and all this has happened while I'm sleeping.

[00:07:16] And all I can think is, shoot, Rome had an idol and he showed it to Tini, not me. Tini had a chance to show it to someone and they showed it to Kishon. And now I am the fourth person finding out, which means I wasn't Rome's number one and I'm not Tini's number one. And that is a very scary feeling, especially when I'm not having these magical cliques with Asia and Saul the same way Tini and Kishon are. So that is all happening to make me feel insecure.

[00:07:45] And one of the things Tini had said to me, because I was also saying to Tini, you know, I'm having a hard time clicking with Saul in Asia. And Tini had said, well, why don't you try and get to know Saul better? That was Tini's specific advice. And so one night when I couldn't sleep, I think it was night two, as Saul also was up, I said, hey, you know, do you think there's any chance we can work together? They're recognizing by now, like Rome and Saul have had multiple fights, even though we're like 48 hours into this game.

[00:08:13] And everyone knows I get along well with Rome, maybe the only one. So I'm kind of guilty by association. And I say to Saul, like, notwithstanding we're on opposite sides. Do you think we could do something reminiscent of Australian Survivor where, like, we feed each other information, low key, keep each other safe? People won't be suspicious of that because we don't have this natural chemistry, but we can solve a really great professional working relationship.

[00:08:38] And I was hopeful that that might be a thing because he was really receptive to it in the moment. And we waddle back up, you know, to the shelter and I'm laying there and it's probably not even been 10 minutes. And I hear Saul go, Kishon, Kishon. And I just like listen as he outs this plan. And then I wake up the next morning and Kishon also tells me he's out of this plan. So to Kishon's credit, Kishon was really great at relaying information and always made me feel like I was still in with him.

[00:09:08] But it was a mess. Lava was a huge mess. And Rome thought he was solid with Tini, Kishon and myself. I think Asia and Saul felt like they were solid with Tini and Kishon. And I felt like I was solid with no one. So going into that first boat, Kishon was telling me everything. Tini was being really cagey with what information Saul and Asia were giving to Tini. And I was so nervous that I like brought my shot in the dark in my bra in the voting booth.

[00:09:37] And I almost played it that night because everyone was making me so nervous. And I'm just like a nervous person in general. Well, so that's where we really did not see what you were up to for those first seven days of the game. But then that next day, because I think it's one day in between when Asia gets voted out and then when Kishon gets voted out. That's really when and I don't know if the editors tried to do this of because it becomes such a big moment for you. Really, your game begins when Kishon goes home.

[00:10:06] And you had to make this decision where, you know, there's, you know, this this plan that they're talking about of potentially blindsiding Rome. And but your name came up in the fake plan. And that was not something that you wanted to hear about Kishon. Yeah, I think I was less motivated.

[00:10:29] By my name coming up as I was by the fact that this vote was going to weaken my position, like Kishon says it and you hear it in the episode that getting rid of Rome will leave me more vulnerable. And my concern was Rome at this point has less of a connection with Tini because Tini burned that bridge by showing Kishon the idol. So now I am Rome's number one and he has this wonderful ability to find things.

[00:10:57] I think, yeah, at this point, he's got the steal of vote. He doesn't have his idol, but no one else really wants to work with him. And as long as he's around, he's going to give me information and be sort of this constant distraction to everyone else. And I think, well, everyone else on Lava were really bright players. No one really saw that value in Rome. And I saw a lot of value in Rome.

[00:11:22] And I wanted so badly an equal alliance or partnership to play this game with. And when Kishon was telling me this plan, it was so blatantly obvious that this was going to be bad for my game. And that made me nervous. Like he obviously didn't really want to work with me. And we weren't having a collaborative discussion of what's good for both of us. It was designed to make me beholden to him.

[00:11:47] And then at the next vote, him and Tini could choose between Saul or myself and who they really wanted to stick with. And so it made me very nervous. So it was less about, oh, my name's out there and more about what's going to happen when my name's out there tomorrow. And I don't have Rome here. Yeah. And Kishon, in his parting words, said to you famously, Genevieve, I trusted you. Well, actually, Genevieve, I trusted the three. So I was quoting it wrong the whole time.

[00:12:16] God, I almost got the wrong tattoo on my body. That misquote. So for Kishon, that he was gone. But really, like so much of his impact of the game happens with him not being there. I know. Gone but not forgotten. Because of the impact it had on you. Could you just talk a little bit more about that, of just how that changed you? Yeah. I mean, I'm so sorry. I feel like people are so sick of hearing about Genevieve the person or Genevieve the player. I get it. No, we're not.

[00:12:47] You're not? Okay, well, then let me talk some more. It was never lost on me that like there is so much damage you do to someone when you vote them out of the game of Survivor. And I can compartmentalize that. It is just a game. And I never was going to take anything personally that people did against me. But that said, I applied for six years. And my family is at home nervous about what's going to happen. And they send you home if you don't make the merge.

[00:13:15] And everyone's holding their breath to see that. And so when you vote someone out, even though Asia and I were on opposite sides, you feel guilt knowing like Asia's got friends and family who don't want to see her come home early. Keyshawn has friends and family who don't want to see him come home early. And it's just this horrible weight that I really didn't want to have to think about in the moment that I was writing someone's name down. And the only way I could survive was to push it out of my mind. But I mean, how do you do that?

[00:13:45] People don't talk about that enough. It's so easy to go like, oh, I'm going to be a cutthroat player and I'm not here to make friends. And there's only one million dollar check. All those things I agree with. But also, are you human? Because then that makes it hard. It's going to make it a little harder for you. Yeah, Genevieve, it's such a good point. And you've articulated it so well in your experience.

[00:14:04] But I think that for everybody who's listening who dreams of one day playing Survivor, when you're dreaming of one day playing Survivor, you are backstabbing, you know, faceless, imaginary people. Now, like, get to know somebody and learn their hopes and dreams and then see if you can stab them in the back just as with the same ease that you think you'll be able to do it. It's a challenge. Oh, absolutely.

[00:14:28] And I think it's really interesting if you compare my game versus Teenie's game because Teenie went the opposite way with that. Teenie immediately emotionally connected with everyone on Lavo, for the most part, and then didn't want to write down anyone's name. Like, day five, Teenie already felt like such a connection with Asia. They didn't want to write down Asia's name. But then Teenie also wants Saul as their number one and Keyshawn as their number one and Genevieve as their number one. And so they wanted to be friends with everyone and not vote anyone out.

[00:14:57] And I wanted to be able to vote people out so I couldn't be friends with anybody. And it's like the two extreme ends of that same problem. And I think really good Survivor players are able to handle the weight of that decision and still clearly think about way out, balance, and execute those decisions. And I've really struggled with it. Okay. Well, look, the bright news is you're not a sociopath. So that's the victory. In that particular way.

[00:15:26] I mean, there's so many other categories. Okay. But it seems as though at this point where, okay, you're going to move on without Keyshawn. And it seems like that there's like a time when you're trying to reconcile with Teenie and get back in Teenie's good graces. And then also still like trying to give it another go with Saul. So, okay. I never gave Saul a fair chance. And this is another piece of advice.

[00:15:52] If you're listening and you want to go and play Survivor, know what kind of people you naturally connect with and know what baggage you're bringing into the game and what's going to get a reaction from you that's disproportionate to what the person has done. So a little bit of insight into my life. Like I have had to shift and make different career decisions because I felt like in certain circumstances, because I was a young woman, I wasn't being taken seriously by some of the men in authority roles that I was working in.

[00:16:21] So one of the conversations I had with Saul was him telling me, hey, here's all the ways you rub me wrong and why I don't like your game. And here's what you should do. That happened on day two, day one or two. And I felt like it was so condescending when he didn't mean to be. He was trying to clear the air. And actually after the game, Saul sent me like a Kellen episode with Dom, Road to Reality. And he was like, this reminds me of us. I've listened to that one. Yeah.

[00:16:49] Yeah. And it really was like, and now let me, let me be very clear. Saul is an amazing person. He's coming to visit me in Winnipeg when I'm in Norwalk for work. I go and see him. He's amazing. But out there, we just, we, I will take a lot of the blame because I misinterpreted so much of how he was trying to communicate with me. And part of the problem was he didn't know that Keyshawn had told me that Saul had ratted me out.

[00:17:15] So then Saul and I continued to have multiple discussions where Saul would say, yeah, I really am so into your plan of playing from opposite sides. This will be great. And every time he did that, I would go, it works as long as no one knows about it. And in like a sort of like cheeky way of like, I already know you ruined this. But every time he did it, it felt like he was twisting the knife and talking to me like I was stupid and I didn't know.

[00:17:36] And so I brought in all that baggage and it prevented me from ever being able to like accept his apology or go like, yeah, he lied to me, but it's survivor. So like, get over it, Genevieve. A little bit of like the Sue in me, you know, where it's like Kyle wrote down my name and I can't work with him again. It's like, well, Saul betrayed me, so I can't work with him again. So I was never really that confident in working with Saul. I never felt good about it.

[00:18:02] So he wasn't, it never, he felt like, never felt like a number for me, if that makes sense. But I did try to repair my relationship with Tini and we had a really open discussion after Keyshawn went home and Tini's like, why didn't you tell me? And I said, well, it's hard because you were so gen, like so genuinely conflicted with the Asia vote, whether it was going to be Asia or Saul. But because you were conflicted, I could see that I could feel it.

[00:18:30] And it made me feel insecure in my position. And, hey, I know Saul told you some of this information that you didn't come back and tell me, which also when Keyshawn's telling it to me, it's great for me, but you're withholding it. And so now I question, who are you really with? And I think I said to him, we had, again, a great open dialogue throughout the whole game. They showed Tini and I having a lot of explosive moments. We had a lot of like really honest, great sort of relationship building moments as well.

[00:18:55] But I said to Tini, it feels like you want me to be in a committed relationship with you, but you want to be able to play the field. And that's not going to work for me. That's not an equal partnership. Again, like Keyshawn didn't really want to have an equal partnership with me. Tini didn't really, Rome didn't. So I scored and I eventually find Sam, but it's just like heartbreak along the way as no one wants to be an equal marriage. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Is there anything else from your time at Lavo before we get into the merge? I don't think so.

[00:19:25] I mean, no, it was messy and dynamic. There was a lot of late night chats. So here's the other thing. Like we see on GADA, Andy wakes up Rachel. On Lavo, that was happening a lot. There were a lot of late night chats. Rome didn't sleep that well. So he would come to the shelter and like pull different people for late night chats. And it became the norm at Lavo. So if you're going to go out and play, there is no like one rule for should you stay up all night and be a part of all those chats?

[00:19:54] Should you not leave the shelter to have chat? Like you have to sort of feel out what is the norm for your tribe and what's going to upset people or make people nervous? Because it got to the point that you could go for like six nighttime chats and no one really bad at a night. So it's a new year. You know what that means, setting big goals. Maybe you promised yourself you're going to hit the gym every day. Or maybe you said you're going to learn to make fire with a flint for once. Or the classic save more money. But let's be honest.

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[00:21:46] Acorns Advisors, LLC, and SEC, Registered Investment Advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash robpod. At the merge, Rome's name is coming up. Were you compelled at all to really go to bat for Rome to try to reverse course for him? No. Honestly, I wasn't.

[00:22:11] At this point, it had taken a lot of maintenance to juggle that relationship. Amongst the other relationships I was trying to manage. And when I was at the merge feast, a couple important things happened. So the group of us who was there were talking about, well, who's the vote going to be? And Rome has already rubbed some people the wrong way at this point. So his name gets thrown out.

[00:22:40] And I did not want to draw any attention to myself. I had just not competed in the challenge and had the bonding mud moments with everyone. So I just sort of sat there and took it all in. A few other interesting things that happened, or the one big thing that stuck with me that becomes relevant later is when people were tossing names out, everyone already assumed Caroline and Sue were a duo. But someone had tossed out Gabe, and Sue had a really quick, big reaction to it. And I remember thinking, OK, she's closer to Gabe than she shows.

[00:23:10] And I didn't want to do that with Rome, because we were already assumed to be a duo. And I think if I would have tried to save him then, and he's asked me since, you know, why didn't you give me a heads up? I could play my shot in the dark. We were working together. You know I was with you. But if I would have given him a heads up and he played his shot in the dark, everyone would have known it was me. And then I'm not. I've burned all these other relationships for one relationship. And in a game when you need the majority number of votes, that's not a smart thing to do. So I couldn't do it.

[00:23:39] I was so nervous leaving that merge feast of like, what am I going to say to Rome? Like my game was not built on like active big lies. It was built on withholding information. Like the Keyshawn vote was good because I could share information, just withhold information. So I didn't have to actively lie too much there. With Rome, I was so worried. And I was like the stars aligned when he walked up to me and was like, the plan is solved. I don't even have to give him an alternate plan. Like he just had his own thing. So that was great. But I was really nervous about it.

[00:24:09] Genevieve, you found the advantage during the big scramble. Did that change the way that people perceived you? I remember at the time that remembering that there was that iconic scene. Everybody is in the mud and you're the one person in your clean clothes sitting there. And I really felt like that people are going to look at you as other of that.

[00:24:33] Like, oh, she's this person who is like her threat level is going to be a lot higher that she's different than the rest of us. I don't think so. Nobody ever really was looking at me that way at that time. I think so when when we got this, hey, there's an advantage out there. Everyone scrambled for a bit.

[00:24:57] And then we went back to the shelter and it was like so it was like such a nothing burger, as the kids will say. And then it like eventually leads to something. But I think all the frenzy had died down and I hadn't found it in a way that made anyone feel like I had beaten them to the punch or was so quick or so clever. It just everyone's like, I guess, like happy accident. Good job, Genevieve. So, no, I don't think anyone was thinking of me that way at that time.

[00:25:23] So I believe the next day is we see you wake up and you end up going to Andy and feeling like, OK, I need a new ally. What was it about Andy that stood out to you? So I was really struck by the first challenge and Andy's moment. Emotional moment. Emotional moment. Not in a bad way. In fact, the opposite effect of me, because I'm like that that could be me. That is something I would do.

[00:25:52] And so that is someone I instantly feel like this compassion for. And what I will say in that moment, I don't think Andy was like in his own head when he's saying, you know, they they don't cheer for me with the coconut. Like that moment was longer than you see on TV. And it took his I remember thinking, why is no one in his tribe like comforting him? Like he's been going on for a minute and no one has like turned to help him. I wanted to like walk off my mat and go and hug him and be like, dude, take a breath. It's OK.

[00:26:21] Like so I don't think he was totally in his head about that. I think some of that dynamic was real and he was feeling it. And so when we got to merge one, I already felt like this bond with him that I like couldn't explain and then was like, hopefully it's still real, that dynamic. And he is on the outs because that's how I felt at Lavo. And if we can link up, we'll be a really capable force, I think.

[00:26:46] But it only took about a day for me to then give a confessional saying, I don't think I can work with Andy. So I had all these eye hopes on what that relationship could be. And then what was it about Andy that you felt like that the style was not a match? Well, he had told me that I could be his number one.

[00:27:10] And then I heard he said that to so many other people, which if you go and play Survivor, you can have multiple number ones, just like use slightly different language with all of them so they can't match it up. And he just you kind of see it at the rib reward when Sierra calls him out. Like he just moved in a way that brought a lot of attention to himself in a way that wasn't going to be as helpful as Rome did.

[00:27:34] And if I like I find them to be honestly kind of similar players, Rome's Rome was very predictable and consistent in his chaos. Like what you don't see at the Keyshawn tribe is Rome gets up and whispers in Keyshawn's ear. And I'm just like, oh, no, something is going wrong. And then he comes up to me and whispers in my ear and goes, don't worry, the plan is still the plan. I'm just, you know, I'm just messing with him. Like, OK, that's definitely not something I would do, but appreciate the check in. Go sit down later. And I'm jumping out of order here.

[00:28:04] But at the Salvo, there's all this frenzy and Andy's in the mix of it. And instead of Andy coming up and telling me we're so good, Gabe comes up to me and says, we can't work with Andy again. And so like there are different breeds of chaos and chaos itself is not a bad thing, but certain brands of chaos are easier to work with than others. And Andy was a brand that made me really, really nervous.

[00:28:24] OK, so this is when we get where Rachel goes off with all of Tuku and you get to go on the reward with Andy and Sam, Sierra, Saul and Tini. And when Saul is going to find the reward. But the idea that's being talked about and thrown about is, OK, yellow and red are going to be the alliance, that it's going to be Lavo and Gata and we're going to team up against Tuku. But you didn't love this idea.

[00:28:53] I didn't love this idea, I guess. Why not? Because I. Everyone emerged felt like open for business, but I had history and I had been sort of rejected for business by Saul. And so for me, I'd rather play with question marks who I think I can sway than someone who I have a track record with that hasn't worked. And yes, you might be thinking, oh, but didn't Saul work for you on the Keyshawn vote? He worked with us.

[00:29:23] But what really was his alternative? What was he going to do? Rome had to steal a vote. And so I didn't have. I was always more worried about sort of the Saul of it all. And I wanted to deal with that as soon as I could. I knew it wasn't in that moment, but there was no like red. There was no Lavo. The Lavo 3 was not a thing to me. I never felt like it was. So, yeah, red and yellow wasn't going to be a beautiful combo.

[00:29:51] OK, so Saul gets the advantage to save Rachel. Did you suss out that it was Saul who made that move as you were sitting on the jury bench? I was not 100 percent confident it was Saul. I wouldn't go so far as to like accuse him. But you thought it was Gata. Pardon me? You thought it was Sam or Sierra. The people I thought it was most likely to be were Andy or Saul. Got it. Which I guess is indicative of those of the people I trusted the least.

[00:30:21] Mm hmm. OK, so when everybody comes back, you all have the auction and there is some discussion. OK, that from the Gata perspective, they think, OK, we're going to take out one of the numbers from Tuku. They're looking at people like Gabe. But you end up talking with the Carolines and Suze. And these are the people that you're gravitating towards a little bit more. What was it about them?

[00:30:50] Oh, I love Caroline. Caroline is exactly the type of person that I enjoy collaborating with in life and in Survivor. And she was really open to hear different perspectives. And I think one thing that made Caroline an incredible Survivor player, and it comes across in her exit interviews, I think, is she's able to be analytical in a way that most of us can't be because ego gets involved. If you listen to Caroline's exit press, she's the first one to say, yeah, I did this wrong or I didn't see this.

[00:31:20] And so she's also got a clearer picture because she's able to be much more objective than other people. And as someone who tends to be, I'm putting it myself now for people who aren't watching this, I tend to be too direct and I get overly focused on objective and forget that people are people and you can't just say your plan in a certain way. Caroline never really was put off by any of that. So it was easy to talk to her. That's why I was drawn to her.

[00:31:46] And as we're chatting in the water, you see me say, I prefer Rachel or maybe you don't see it. But there was a conversation between Caroline and I about the God of Three. And no one is including Andy in the God of Three at this point because it's like pretty obvious he's out, which is what they wanted us to think. And out of the God of Three, there's this duo of Sam and Sierra and then there's Rachel.

[00:32:07] And my philosophy, not intentionally at the time, but looking back, was always keep the people who aren't on everyone's radar. The duo will be here tomorrow and still be scary. If Rachel's here... Spooky scary. Yes. Well, Rachel is way more spooky scary to me because no one else is afraid of Rachel, which means how do I rally votes to get out Rachel? And so if this is an opportunity to do it, let's try. And Caroline was open to it.

[00:32:35] And she said, yeah, but the boys are going to want the credit for it. And we were both on the same page of like, let them. Who cares about the credit? If we get the ultimate outcome we want, I don't care. And at this point, early merge, as long as it's not me, that's fine. And so... I think that that was such an interesting way that you approached the game of that I'm not looking to take out the big threats. I want to take out the medium threats, the people that are going to be forgotten about.

[00:33:03] And you did kind of call the shot on Rachel. I tried. I tried. You knew. But I never had numbers. I never had numbers. This is... And one thing I think I did well, which like, ugh, cringe to like compliment yourself. But one thing I think I did well in the game was playing and having influence without authority. Because I never had an alliance or like people who really backed me. But I was able to maneuver and sort of get the ear of people who did have those things.

[00:33:32] People like Gabe, who led an army of Tuku. And if you could have seen the chokehold Gabe had on Tuku, it was so impressive. He is such an influential person. And so when we're unable to get traction for Rachel, then it becomes between Sierra and Sam. And Tini was pretty pissed at me at this point because Tini had a great connection with Sierra, not a great connection with Sam, wanted Sam out. But Sam is, again, a way more visible target. If we take out Sam, who's to say people are going to be still worried about Sierra tomorrow?

[00:34:01] Whereas I can promise you they're going to be worried about Sam tomorrow. So, yeah, I like to keep the threats around. Yeah. Okay. So Sierra ends up going home. And then we get to our day where everybody is going to be partnered up. Sue is your partner, right? In this challenge. How did that come to be? Well, we were both the first pick. Everybody wanted to be with both of us. And so we thought we would be with each other.

[00:34:30] Yeah. We were both the last pick. Yeah. Interesting. But anyway, so. One of the most sarcastic, dry. This is, you know, a big turning point in your game because this is when you say, but what about Saul? Well, this ended up being a perfect opportunity. So you see Saul, Tini and myself have a conversation with Sam in the morning where it's like, well, what about Gabe?

[00:34:57] But that was put on for Sam because as far as everyone else was thinking, like Saul had a great connection with Gabe. He wasn't actually wanting to get Gabe out at this point. But I had planted that mental flag of Sue's reaction at the merge feast. And so when we're sitting there alone, I thought this was a great opportunity. I can talk to Sue. If I just go up to Gabe and say this out of nowhere, I don't really have that good relationship with him. And he's developed a great relationship with Saul.

[00:35:27] It's not going to seem authentic because it's not. And he's going to pick up on that. And I don't have the goodwill to carry this live forward with Gabe. But Sue does. And Sue obviously has some kind of deeper relationship with Gabe than I can see. So what if I do it under the guise of, hey, Sue, I feel close with you. I just want to give you a heads up. Like, we don't have to do this, but maybe. And, you know, I like Gabe and this and that, what you see in the episode.

[00:35:53] And then when I approach Gabe, I do it of like, listen, I'm not trying to cause a problem. But Sue told me that I should give you this heads up. And then you see the conversation, I think, at the well or whatever. And I thought it was going to be so cut and dry. And that stupid journey really screwed me over because Caroline was the number we needed. So had Caroline not lost her vote, Andy and Rachel would not have been brought in on that.

[00:36:20] And it would have gone off smoothly because she is not a chaotic player. She is very tactical and that would have been great. But she's the one who topples the Tower of Cards or Jenga game, whatever. And then we had to tell Andy. Yeah. And then Caroline or someone had suggested, let's make Andy feel like he's got some agency. Let him decide if he wants to bring in Rachel. Sure, sure. What about Sam? I don't know if Sam's close with Lavo.

[00:36:49] So that's the mess. That's the mess. Yeah. It was almost like you were building this perfect Jenga tower. And Andy just pulled out the piece that I needed. Yeah. Yeah. Looking back at it, though, based on how everything went down, how do you think you would have done anything different if you could have? Hmm. Hmm. And there may be no right answer. All those specifically or the whole game? No, on this vote.

[00:37:16] Because it ends up really then you have such a big target on your back after this all goes sideways. Yeah. I wasn't really worried about the big target, honestly, because I was still a party of one. And people aren't that worried about parties of one, no matter how big your target was. It's the same reason we didn't go for Sam immediately after Sierra was gone. Because what's one person going to do? But you get so much credit for the Salvo. That was Genevieve did that. Genevieve did the Salvo.

[00:37:46] She's responsible for the Salvo. And the next vote is really like you are feeling the heat, at least from us watching the TV show, when it seems like that you're thinking, especially when your shot in the dark is gone, that you might be the one to go home. Is that maybe played up a little bit more for the show? So I knew where the majority, I've been told where the majority of votes were going at the Gabe Tribal.

[00:38:13] A big part of the fight that Tini and I had after the Salvo was Tini being upset that they'd gone around at Tribal Council and Gabe was still lying to them. And when Tini came and sat by me, you don't see this, but I basically say like, yes, sorry, I'll explain it all later, but this is what's happening. And as Tini and I are arguing loudly behind the shelter, thinking no one can hear us. One of the things Tini says is like, look at Gabe over there holding court in the hammock. I swear he's got to go tomorrow. And I was just like, yeah, absolutely.

[00:38:43] And just hoping that the rage was a bit bigger for Gabe than me because Tini was in that sort of swing position. Same, same as Caroline, who was open to make a move. There were a few people who could have tipped it either way. And Tini saved me multiple times. So that was great. But I knew where the majority of votes were going, but I had given, so sorry, Rob, this is rambly. But I had given a confessional at some point in the game.

[00:39:12] And it's exactly how I feel. It's like I'm slightly narcissistic, obviously, because I applied to be on reality TV. And I'm like deeply insecure. So at every Tribal Council, all I can think is it's all about me and everyone hates me and no one wants me here. So I'm going home. Even at the Sam and Sierra one, like there is a part of my mind that just thinks that way. And I can't help it. Because that was the Tribal Council you gave so many facial expressions of like, and it was raining and your glasses on. And it's like, oh, it's me. It's not me. Well, I'm safe. Okay, I made it. I made it.

[00:39:42] Can you believe it? You should always think it could be you. Like, I, at least from my perspective, you should always think it could be you. That doesn't mean you need to act like it's going to be you. That doesn't mean you need to do anything crazy. But if you are at Tribal Council and you're not wearing a necklace, you should always be prepared. A little part of you that is you that day. Okay. All right. So now Gabe is gone. And now, okay, a big threat in the game is gone from the two coups.

[00:40:09] But unfortunately, you're left out of like this new group of five that comes together. The underdogs? The majority. The underdogs. Yeah. The underdog majority. Yep. And they leave you out of it. Yes. I was also left out of the women's alliance, too. Oh, my God. Maybe everybody does hate me. Yeah. What's up with that?

[00:40:34] Listen, being a threat party of one is not a bad spot to be if you can survive. So are you worried yet? Are you feeling like that? You said that, okay, being the threat doesn't bother me. But now you're not in the underdog majority. Oh, I was worried. You know that scene where Jeff's giving everybody their tribe names? Yes. I was worried then, and I never stopped being worried. So, but you just have to, you have to be prepared to be worried all the time, I think.

[00:41:03] But it does shape how you play, for sure. Because you, there's times where you are a driver. Sometimes you're just trying to survive. Sometimes you're just lucky to be passenger and get a view. Yeah. And I was only driver or in drive mode when my back was against the wall. I never really figured out how to play with power. I only figured out how to get my back off the wall. Okay.

[00:41:32] Never to go forward. So did you feel like your back was against the wall when Kyle went home? Not really. Because Kyle was going home. Kyle was going home. The only thing that made me nervous about Gabe and Kyle were, like, if they were going to have an idol or someone was going to play an idol or something was going to happen. Because we had not figured out the red paint idol. Yeah. And where, if there was a merge idol.

[00:41:59] So I had this constant state of worry, which I just carry generally in life. But for those votes, I was less worried probably than I should have been. I should have been more worried. All right. Well, now, it's a big turning point in the game now that Kyle goes home. And Andy wrote your name down at the Kyle Tribal Council. And you and Andy, from at the point where you're going to work together, it seemed like that there had been some friction. And it seems like that you reach out to Andy and mend some fences with Andrew. Oh, yeah.

[00:42:28] So here's another little piece of advice, everybody. Don't do what I do. So, Rob, I listened to the podcast with the losers, nothings and threats theory, which I love. And I knew Rachel was a Rob as a podcast fan. And so you see me talk to her about, like, let's band together as the threats. What I had actually said in the longer version of that conversation is, here's who I think the losers, the nothings, the threats are.

[00:42:58] And so she runs back and tells them. Did I ruin your game, Genevieve? No. Because I feel bad now. It's never good when you give someone the ammunition to go, hey, Andy, Genevieve called you a loser. So, yeah, don't be as direct as I am. The problem is, like, I wear my thoughts on my face and then sometimes- What about the theory? Do you feel like the theory of the losers, the nothings and the threats is valid, though?

[00:43:29] 100%. Okay. All right. Well. 100%. Oh, dang. The silver lining. There's a silver lining. Okay. Wait, you just gave a ding to yourself, though. No, it was for you. No, it was for me. It was for you. Okay, fine. Fine. I high-five myself. Okay. But back to you, Genevieve. Okay. But no one, don't say that. If you are in the game of survival. Yeah, don't say, hey, I think you're the losers. Don't say it. Don't say it. Yeah. Okay.

[00:43:56] So, I mean, it kind of backfires on Andy when he's like, okay, Rachel, you're one of the threats. You have to go home. Well, so here's the thing. Like, guys, did I make Andy? I know he says it's laughable. Genevieve calling me, like, saying I don't have a chance to laughable or whatever. But did I kind of make him insecure and thus a little more froggy and thus Operation Italy happened? No, probably not. Probably not at all, actually.

[00:44:22] The thing that made me nervous about playing with Andy is he's such a fan of the game. And Teenie is a bit of this, too. But it was never as overt as it is with Andy. We'd be out there and Andy would say, oh, we're on episode nine. Or, oh, this is going to be a straightforward vote. It's going to be a boring episode. And I found that so jarring when we were out there. And it always made me question, like, are you here or do you have one foot on the couch of what people are going to see?

[00:44:51] And is that going to change your motivations? Because one of the things, the piece of advice that survivor players have heard time and time again is, well, people are always going to do what's in their best interest. But what's their motivation? What is in their best interest? Is it to get to final tribal? Is it to win final tribal? Is it to, like, I don't know what it is to do. And so the people who I couldn't figure out that for were the people that I was most nervous about working with.

[00:45:17] And Andy, you can tell when you speak to him, he's extremely brilliant. But he's just not predictable. And I like consistent, predictable, methodical. We're going to go with the plan. And we're all trying to do the same thing. So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, you're going to spend time with Andy and with Sam on Operation Italy.

[00:45:41] And, you know, in talking with Sam, he talked a little bit about, you know, some of the work that went into the pre-production of Operation Italy, of talking it through before that he even wins the reward challenge. From your perspective, how locked and loaded did you feel like you were for what's going to come to pass on Operation Italy heading into the reward challenge?

[00:46:08] I really wanted it to be teeny for all the reasons I just said. I was so nervous about Andy. But I had so much goodwill built up with Sam. Sam was, is, will always be, like, the most incredible person I worked with in the game. And we had so much fun. And he had built up so much goodwill with me that I was willing to work with Andy.

[00:46:29] But you will see a little bit in the episode when Andy's talking, I am, like, silent and almost expressionless because I just don't feel it. And so I do warm up to Andy throughout the evening. But when I'm nervous or I don't trust someone, like, I keep my cards really, you know, close, hidden. And it took a while for me to open up. The planning ultimately got to the phase where it was really, really fun, really detailed.

[00:46:55] But I was always saying in my confessionals, like, I just don't know if this is going to work. Like, I just don't trust Andy. And I think he's the type of player who, like, you know when you're putting your dog down and you want to give them one last good day? I think that might be what Andy's doing to me and Sam. And this is all just, like, super fun but not going to work out. So I was relieved when Caroline's name was read. But until it was, I was like, this could be a total bust.

[00:47:20] Well, you had a lot to do after you got back to camp from Operation Italy because Sam gives you an idol. What did you do to Sam's idol to make it be a different idol? So Sam had given me all these ingredients to go do some crafts, which I love. I'm a crafty girl. And so he had his original idol. He had also some tree mail string.

[00:47:48] And we get beads on our tree mail string that wraps up the note. So he had collected a bunch of this stuff and given it to me. But the problem was the idols had different colored string. And the tree mail string was a brown color. But we had paint from the flag. And so part of the very detailed Operation Italy plan was you guys stand at the far edge of camp and tell people about the reward. They will all be looking at you.

[00:48:16] The paint is under the base of this tree. I will put my bag there, quickly grab the purple paint, put it in my bag. And then I will scoop the paint out, put it in the pocket of my cargo shorts with the string and kind of swoosh it around. Thus, I will have a purple string. And it will become a very believable idol because there's no purple string on this beach. And we had done all of that. The guys did a great job, lured everyone's eyes over there.

[00:48:45] I grabbed the paint, try and open it so I can scoop some in my pocket, spill it all over the inside of my bag. Yes. You have a Sue situation. So yikes. Yeah, I bit my tongue so hard in my bag. And then whatever, the bag's purple, my socks are purple. I still scoop some, put it in my pocket. And then I have to wait a bit as they're telling the story so I can organically wait for a time that seems normal, go down to the water. And I'm like swooshing the string in my pocket.

[00:49:13] But it's so hot, the paint has immediately dried. So I've only coated my pocket in paint. The string is still like as brown as it was when Sam gave it to me. Um, so it was, it was a horrible mess. But that's why I was down at the water for so long, which ultimately you see Teeny come down. We have this awkward conversation where I like quote unquote threatened Teeny because I won't guarantee that my boat. And then Teeny leaves and I still stay by the water, which looks suspicious. And ultimately when you see Teeny ask like, well, where's the note? How do you know it's real?

[00:49:43] And that kind of says a lot by the water. But Operation Italy was a very intricate plan. The short answer, which I could have just given you instead of telling you all the things I did wrong was, um, as part of this kit, I ultimately realized there was a black string and I use it with a bunch of the leftover beads and craft the idol. So yeah, you get a very close call and Teeny wants to see the idol. You like take it out. And then Sam is like, oh, he's coming. He's coming. He's coming. And you put it back into, uh, the pocket.

[00:50:12] So you had to also do a good job of convincing Teeny that this was a, you know, a real idol, uh, because, uh, you are kind of getting called out about, you know, whether or not you're going to play the idol tonight. And Teeny wants Sam to go home. So Teeny wants you to burn your idol. So there's a lot of moving parts here for you. There were, there were.

[00:50:34] And one of the things you also don't see, and I was so annoyed at the guys for doing this is we had said like, um, as Sam and I are on the path, we can see Teeny's coming up and Andy's coming up. And I said, okay, guys, just don't leave me alone with Teeny because Teeny won't like pry on this fake idol thing in front of Andy too much. So just don't leave me alone. And we won't have to have a big conversation with it. Teeny walks up. We do this, what you see on TV, Sam, and we start shuffling.

[00:51:01] And we, but we do move down to a different spot on the path and then Andy re-enters and the guys go, okay, we'll meet you guys back at camp. You guys go that way. We'll go this way and do specifically what I had asked them not to do. And I'm left with Teeny and Teeny is pressing me more on this fake idol. And I feel so awful about this because it was like really manipulative in the moment, but Teeny and I had had that, like, are you threatening me fight? And so when Teeny's asking me more questions about the idol, I was like, yeah, we can talk about this more.

[00:51:30] But what I really want to talk about is our fight from earlier because I'm really upset about it. And then we pivot to talking about that. And it was like so, you know, I accused Teeny of using their weapons as an emotion. But, like, I definitely did that at that moment. So I'm sorry, Teeny, if you're listening to this, which I know they will because they're a huge fan. So I'm so sorry, Teeny. Okay. All right. So Operation Italy is a big success.

[00:51:53] Do you feel like that if Rachel would have gotten out at that, had Rachel not won immunity there, do you feel like that that could have opened the door for you to win? Instead of Caroline going home? You never really, like, wait, win the challenge or win the game? On Operation Italy, because I think that the big thing is that the plan is originally to get out Rachel. But Rachel wins immunity.

[00:52:21] But if you could have somehow gotten out Rachel at that spot, do you think that the door is open for a Genevieve win? Of the entire game? Yes. I never really saw a Genevieve win, if I'm being totally honest. Like, I think probably the way I played it was the path that would have given me the highest likelihood of getting there. I mean, if Rachel goes home there, even if she doesn't, if Rachel doesn't have the auction idol, then she goes home at six.

[00:52:50] When you win immunity. Right. Yeah. Instead of, instead of Andy, then I think I've got a good shot at winning the next challenge just based on the nature of it. And because it was Rachel and I really close. And then I'm at least making fire, which probably would have lost in quite honestly. But, but I never really thought there was going to be a Genevieve win. And there is, there is a psychologist that comes with this experience and the advice before the show.

[00:53:17] She's a lovely lady advice before the show started and you're in Fiji is, you know, picture yourself at the end. Try and imagine what it's going to be like sitting in final tribal. And I had this whole debate with her because I was like, I absolutely refuse to do that. I will not do that. I will not tempt myself with that thought. All I can think about is I'm going to be the first one out and anything beyond that is gravy. I mean, I really mean it. And I had written myself a letter to read on night three when I got back to Ponderosa.

[00:53:44] I still have it because I like was prepared to lose. And I think if you're going to go out and play survivor, if you're not prepared to lose, you're not prepared to play. And if you can't picture what's going to happen when you don't win, you're going to end up like hurting yourself or hurting other people. You're going to be pissed off at people in the cast. You're going to not be in a good headspace. So you'll be pissed off around the people you love or you'll take it out on yourself and sort of implode like silently when you come home.

[00:54:12] So have your obviously picture your win if you want to. That's fun. I've done that. You know, I've done a fun, a few fake final tribal speeches in my car. Never once I actually got cast. I wouldn't tempt myself with that. But I've done it. You know, in the shower, you're washing your hair and you're like, yeah, look it. I have six idols. But but also prepare yourself for what if you go home first? What are you going to do? How are you going to manage that? And be prepared for that whole spectrum of experience, I think would be helpful. So I don't know. What do you think, Rob? I don't know.

[00:54:40] I would love to tell you, but I'm so mindful of the time. But I love every I'm ringing the bell for, you know, echo everything you just said. So you and Rachel, you talked about how this is like, you know, Harry Potter and Voldemort. I'm not sure if you said it or if she said it. That that I would not call myself Voldemort. I don't think she said who was who. Yeah. OK.

[00:55:05] But in terms of I saw the Slytherin pictures of, you know, at Universal. But and I will. So sorry to interrupt. I will let you finish this question in one second. But I actually have it here, not not on intentionally, but it sits in my office. One of the first things Rachel spent her millions on was a Professor Snape one for me at Universal. So thank you, Mama Rachel. Yeah. Thank you, Rachel.

[00:55:27] But but the the rivalry between the two of you, I think that so many of us saw that that was like a really cool part of the season. What did it mean for you to go toe to toe with Rachel? It was really fun. Like it. I don't know.

[00:55:46] From my personal experience of growing up, my parents were really supportive, but the general messaging from the world, I think, can sometimes be like women should not be that competitive. And it's really fun to be competitive in a healthy way. And I love it. It's something that like makes me feel super alive.

[00:56:08] Even if I fail at something, I get like addicted to just like the opportunity to be successful, like opportunity to compete, you know, and it was fun. And it always felt respectful, but still intense, still very, very genuine rivalry. But yeah, it was fun. It was fun.

[00:56:26] So when you come out of the game and you are sitting at the final tribal council, is there any pause for you about potentially now Sam is the person that you worked closer with, but Rachel is your number one rival. Was it an easy decision for you to vote for Rachel? Um, honestly, it was cut and dry for me because of what I valued as a juror. And so based on my personality type, I love and value control.

[00:56:56] And I was going to vote for the person who I felt held the paintbrush the most and dictated the picture of season 47 the most. And that was Rachel. I think there's something to be said for whether or not you feel headwinds or tailwinds more acutely and more forcefully, you know, like Sam working with me, maybe if he was working against me, I would have felt like a bigger force from that. But I will say, I've said it to both of their faces.

[00:57:24] Sam had a better final tribal than Rachel. He is an incredible speaker. Um, that's why I was afraid of him and didn't think that I, it was a cut and dry win if I sat there with Sam because he is so compelling. It's incredible. I forget that he's not like a 40 year old, like guru when I'm like, how are you 24? You have the mental and emotional wherewithal of like someone so much more mature than me, but incredible. He is incredible. He is incredible.

[00:57:50] Um, but, but Rachel's game was like undeniable from a control perspective and that's what I valued, but that's what, that's what playing survivor is about. And I think that's why it's so difficult to know what the jury is going to do because everyone has their own like hidden rubric. And you think you can guess what Genevieve the juror is going to value, but so much of what you saw of me, if you're out there on Becca beach at the merge is not who Genevieve is.

[00:58:20] So how do you really know what's, what's going to hit home for me and, you know, vice versa with all the other jurors. So it's a, it's a bit of an art and not a science. And I much prefer science. If you and Sam could have somehow made it through the final five and gotten to the final four, there's a secret scene where Sam says that he wants to take you out in fire making. Who do you think would win fire making between you and Sam?

[00:58:46] The two people who forgot to practice making the fire. Oh my gosh. Uh, whoever they gave the lighter to first. Um, no, but Sam ultimately won his, so he, he probably would have won. If I had been there, one of the things I've spoken about with Rachel is I would have been in that situation. And let's say it's me, Rachel, Sam and teeny. And I win, I would have taken Rachel to try and undermine her one because she's amazing at fire. So why give her that?

[00:59:16] But also I thought that was my best shot at winning is carrying Rachel and being able to like undermine her game in that way. But no, I don't, I don't think I would have done well at any of that. Yeah. Genevieve, uh, we have just a couple of minutes left, uh, in our time. One, uh, could you show the people your, uh, survivor 47 manicure in case they missed it during the, uh, or at least hold your hands up while you tell us anything else you want people to know about your game? Does this work?

[00:59:45] So there's one hand that's Lavo and there's one hand that's Becca and I'm right-handed. So the Becca hand is very detailed. The Lavo hand is more of a mess, which- Oh, you did it yourself. Which perfectly is kind of on brand for the Lavo tribe. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Well, what else don't we know about Genevieve's game? Okay. Nothing. Nothing.

[01:00:15] You know it all now. You know it all. And I feel like these times when I get to just speak and no one's really stopping me or I'm not stopping myself, the like mystique of Genevieve the player, which people think is like so capable, um, sort of wears off. And you're like, Oh, that's Genevieve. And it's all a bit of a blur.

[01:00:40] And when I watch it on TV, like if it wasn't on TV and I didn't have video proof, I wouldn't have believed that I did any of these things. This was my personality. And even if it's on TV, I still get imposter syndrome about it. So I think it's been a fun experience and hearing from the people I played with what they think about me has been so, so nice. It's not how I see myself.

[01:01:02] Um, the imposter syndrome prevails, but I appreciate all the nice things you guys have said, all the nice things people say online. Um, I do see some of it. I try not to see any of it because, um, I'm just generally afraid of the internet and all the things people say on it, but I see some of them. Um, and it's, it's awesome, but survivor is tough.

[01:01:24] And another thing, if you're going to go out and play, I think it's important to understand that your experience as a viewer is as a viewer. And when you go and you're out there as a player, it is such a different thing. And the game is so different than the product that's on TV. Um, the editors do an amazing job of distilling it to the relevant facts that you need in order to understand the outcome. But there is so much out there.

[01:01:51] And when you're playing that experience is for you and go all out and love it. And the TV experience, like let people have their opinions and they might hate you, like you, whatever, but this is, this phase is for them. So let them enjoy it. Yeah. Well, Genevieve. I'm going to judge everyone on 48. No, just kidding. Just kidding. All right. Genevieve, uh, you have such a great attitude about the whole experience. Uh, this was, uh, such a fun chat to go over this all with you. Thank you for, uh, taking the time to do this.

[01:02:21] Uh, anything else, uh, you want people to know or check out? Oh my gosh. Check out everyone who is on my season because they are online and they do amazing things, post amazing photos. They're amazing people. The closest I ever came to wanting to get a Twitter account was when like some of the people I love deeply on, on my cast, we're getting crap online. And I just wanted to like make an account, go all scorched earth because these people are amazing. So like, don't, don't diss my cast. Okay. You heard it here. Don't diss my cast. All right.

[01:02:51] Genevieve, thank you so much. Thank you all so much for listening. We love to read what you have to. Genevieve won't read the comments. I will. So go ahead and leave them on robertswebsite.com slash YouTube. Take care.