Frannie Marin Talks Survivor 50 Ep 11

[00:00:00] We all love Survivor, and in my first ever book, The Tribe and I have spoken, I'll tell you how this little show evolved from that juggernaut first season on the beaches of Borneo all the way into its landmark 50th season. I'm like a storyteller, that's what I do. What role did the greatest players, the unforgettable moments, and Jeff Probst himself have in shaping what Survivor has become today? And what contribution did we play in building this worldwide tribe of Survivor fans? Love you, bae!

[00:00:28] For you future players, I've also included my Ultimate Survivor playbook to help you win the million dollars, unlike me. It's fun, you know what dude, it's fun. This hardcover edition is filled with beautiful Survivor illustrations in every chapter and is an amazing edition for every Survivor collector. I'm a meat collector.

[00:00:47] Pre-orders are everything for a book launch, so to say thank you to everyone who pre-orders, you'll receive an exclusive digital bonus chapter called The Ultimate Rites of Passage. My personal tribute to all the players who have ever competed on the show. All 751. This is huge. I needed this. Pre-order wherever books are sold, in hardcover and as an audiobook at robhasabook.com.

[00:01:17] That's robhasabook.com. Nicely done, Rob. Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cisternino and I'm back home after a wild week of travel. Almost a whole new era season on the road. And I'm so excited to get back to podcasting here in the studio. We've got such a fun one here today because we have somebody who's just one of the best podcast guests that you could hope for. She comes in with insights and energy.

[00:01:46] No pressure today for the great Frannie Marin. Frannie, how are you? Oh, fantastic. Yeah, Rob, I'm here to bring the energy. If you are any bit depleted from your entire new era season of travel, I'll bring you back up. Like I will be your hype man on the jury of the final three travel. Well, I'm so excited to get into everything as we had a lot to discuss from this episode. And I really haven't gotten to talk as much about it as I would like to.

[00:02:14] So I'm excited to do that here today with you. But sort of like the light is at the end of the tunnel. We're only about two weeks away from the finale of Survivor 50. We're about to crown a winner. And I'm sure we'll have a lot to say about that. But Frannie, how are you? Oh, I'm fantastic. I've been having the best spring. I've done a lot of travel. I was in Toronto with you, Rob. That was so much fun. Maybe we'll find out today who dented the car that Omer was parked next to. Was it Frannie or was it Gabby?

[00:02:44] We'll see. This is like, and we set up sort of like a rivalry week. We'll let people vote at the end of the week. Did you like Steven with Gabby on Wednesday or Rob with Frannie? And Omer will be the deciding swing vote. He's going to, Omer is going to be the power broker. He's going to go back and forth and watch both of the podcasts. And then he's going to vote who had the better podcast this week. Omer, Omer, I got the dent out of the car. You owe me for that, please. Oh, yeah. That wasn't my proudest moment, Rob.

[00:03:14] But yeah, we can outshine Gabby and Steven. Come on. That was a blind item that he gave on a podcast recently over who dented the car. Was it Frannie or was it Gabby? Well, the best part about this, and maybe he said, is this is like in his parking garage for his apartment. So everybody has assigned slots. You know whose car it is. And his car is blue. And the dent on this white car was clearly bright blue. Like it could not have been from any car other than Omer's.

[00:03:45] But I got the dent out. I had an alcohol wipe in my bag. I'm always prepared for moments like this. We pulled it out. We did a little and then everything was fine. Yes. Okay. The alcohol wipe is so handy. I stabbed myself with a sharpie at Steven's book signing back in March. And that was the antidote of like that. I had sharpied myself on my shirt. And then alcohol wipe got it out of your shirt? Yes, it was a big help. It was a big help.

[00:04:12] That and I think you could do a dry erase marker and then try to try to get that out. But anyway, so Frannie, excited to dig into everything. This is an ad for alcohol wipe. For alcohol wipe. This episode is sponsored by alcohol wipes. You know, alcohol they say is bad for you, but alcohol wipes. There's so much good that comes out of that. So stock your liquor cabinet with alcohol wipes. Solves every problem. Yes. Now that that's out of the way. The solvent that solves all their problems.

[00:04:41] So Frannie, how do you solve a problem like the power broker twist if you're Emily Flippin'? Am I right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If only she had one of those wipes, Rob. She might have been able to get something out of it. Yeah, that could be sort of the next celebrity advantage. The Mr. Clean of super wipe. People wipe out all the advantages that are going to be used against you. Yes. Yeah. Magic eraser. The magic eraser. People's idols away.

[00:05:10] Well, I think we're one step away from that. You know, people have been really down on all of the celebrity twists, but I think it could be worse. Because if this was Big Brother, these would be product placement twists. Like, these would be, like, products. So what's worse? Like, is Zach Brown coming in? Or is it going to be, like, hey, it's the nationwide twist.

[00:05:39] Nationwide is on your side. And your side will get an extra advantage. You need insurance tonight. Yes. That's a vote. Yes. Yeah. I'll be honest, Rob, though. The Billie Eilish boomerang idol starting to feel like product placement with the timing of Billie Eilish finally speaking out now that her Hit Me Martensoft tour is out there. Is it a movie or is it a tour? What is she promoting?

[00:06:07] So I'm a victim to the Billie Eilish live in 3D tour because it's a movie. It's a movie. It's like it is a videoed recap of her tour. It's the concert. And then they, like, they go back in time to, like, hours before the concert. You see her getting ready and, like, talking about her process. I, as you may have seen, along with 50 other New Era Survivor players, was invited to go to a pre-screening of this. No, I didn't know this.

[00:06:36] And, oh, yes. Okay. So I, you haven't been on my social media. I've been busy. I got, you know. You've been, you've been busy, you've been busy. Well, I got an email from Paramount Plus and they said they wanted to invite me to this screening, pre-screening of Billie Eilish's thing. And I never get invited to these things. I never do these things. I thought this was going to be, like, a red carpet event. I'm wearing my Sunday best. I'm, like, I've got my girl. I got Annika. I got Matt.

[00:07:05] We're ready to go. And we show up. It's just an AMC theater. It's not a movie theater. We didn't even. Yeah. It's a movie. There was, like, there was a guy at a folding table who checked us in who, like, didn't even know who we were. This was, it was a movie and I got swindled into going. And then you post content about it. Yeah. And then I saw that, you know, 50 other people did the same thing. So, were the other survivors all invited to their local AMC to go to? Yes. Or did you all go to one?

[00:07:34] No, it was all your local AMC. Your local. There was no one else there. And it was fascinating because this was a pre-screening and the theater had other people in it. But I have no clue who these other people were. They weren't. I didn't recognize them from anything. It was a very strange experience. But, yeah. So, if anybody saw me really promoting the Billie Eilish live, you know, the tour movie, it was good. But I sort of feel like I got got by the whole thing of it.

[00:08:02] You talking about her movie is sort of like Billie Eilish talking about Survivor. Yeah. I clearly watched it. Like, now the boomerang has come back to you, Billie Eilish. How about that? How about that? You just got boomeranged. Yeah. Billie Eilish has never seen Survivor. Yeah. And that much is so clear. That's what people are saying. Yeah. Trust me, Rob. I can tell from the way she... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:08:27] She, in her song about Survivor, she was like, what show could I say in this lyric where people suffer? Did it rhyme with another word? Was it like, did she just use Survivor because it was rhyming with something? I think it was the right number of syllables. It was like, I put on Survivor just to watch somebody suffer. Sort of a slant rhyme. Yeah. But it's like, you don't want to say I put on Big Brother just to watch somebody suffer. It actually rhymes better, to be honest. It's also three syllables. True. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:58] We could have been seeing the twist this summer. Billie Eilish boomerang, boomerang head of household. Yeah. As you take away the head of household from somebody. It would have been great. But anyway, so you went to the movie and now you're part of it. And now you're a part of Billie Eilish Nation. I'm probably not going to see it. I might wait till streaming to see it. Yeah. I'm probably not going to go in 3D. The 3D was the best part of it, I'll be honest. It was directed by-

[00:09:28] James Cameron. James Cameron, who, by the way, when I read the movie poster, I thought it was James Corden. And so I was pretty confused by the whole thing. It was like a carpool karaoke type thing. Yeah. I was like, this is a pretty low budget movie. But no, James Cameron was there and the 3D was excellent. And James Cameron was in it interviewing Billie. It was fascinating.

[00:09:56] When you say that James Cameron was there, he was at your screening? No. No. Okay. He was on screen in the movie. Yes. He was not at my local AMC screening. I mean, he might really love it. It's okay. But what a collaboration. Talk about a duo's twist. James Cameron and Billie Eilish. But this was an interesting twist. And I'm sort of like, I'm really like on the fence about this.

[00:10:25] I know that the purist in me has issues with this. And I feel like that this is, in a perfect world, we would have this season of Survivor with 24 people in season 50. And it would be by the book. Not this book. No. Maybe by that book. By what book? Which book?

[00:10:49] But in this season, though, where we're really just throwing the kitchen sink at these players, it was, I do think, an interesting wrinkle. Especially the part about one person having to go back and forth between the two groups. How did you feel about all this? Yeah. I think that splitting them into essentially groups of five, because Jonathan is voting in both, is really hard.

[00:11:19] It's just, it's so exposed. And I understand why Survivor does it. Because it can create an opportunity to get a player that is otherwise really well insulated. So if somebody is so protected by an alliance or by advantages the whole of a season, if you split them up and you put them in such a small group, suddenly they're exposed. Suddenly there's an opportunity to change the game.

[00:11:44] But more often than not, it results in everybody getting anxious because they feel so exposed. And then just voting out an easy vote. Not really what happened this week, actually. Well, I think it was one and one. I think it was a big swing about Ozzy. You know, I think you had Emily, who was the more of the traditional easy vote, and then Ozzy, who was the big game hunting. Yes, certainly. So it's nice that we got, you know, to be results-oriented,

[00:12:13] it's nice that we got both sides of that story. I do actually really like Jonathan's advantage being that he gets to go back and forth. I think he gets to exert a lot of influence. I think that that's super fun. Yeah. But I wish that it had been two larger groups. I wish they had done this earlier. Yes. Just that it's not so unforgiving. And, yeah, I very much agree with what you're saying. I sort of, I like the idea of this.

[00:12:39] I do think at the final nine, for Jonathan to be safe for two tribal councils. Yes. To me, I feel that that did seem overpowered. Where that, and the challenge he won was not like, but this is the granddaddy of all immunity challenges. It was just like a regular challenge that kind of got won on like fluky circumstances where, I don't know why, it's like, hey, we got a lot to do today.

[00:13:07] So after 10 minutes, everybody just stands on one foot. We're just, we got to move today. And then everybody just fell in the water. Jonathan outlasted, you know, somebody by a split second. Tiffany was disqualified. And he's like, and Jonathan, for that, you're safe for two tribal councils, two huge tribal councils, the final nine and the final eight. You get like the, you know, the, the fast pass to the final seven, which is really huge. And you're also going to be the most powerful player.

[00:13:34] And it was just that the, the reward I felt like was not necessarily worth what, what Jonathan had to do to get the reward. It was just like, sort of like, you just won the Powerball today. Yes. Would you have felt better if it was a more epic immunity challenge? I think it was like, this is like the biggest immunity challenge of the season. And there, and there was like, there was like, okay, well, that, and everybody knows I'm really going for it.

[00:14:03] And this was just sort of like, just like, like a free for all at the end where, again, it doesn't bother me too much, but I just thought that was too much. How about this? Okay. Should Jonathan have been immune for one of the two tribal councils? Okay. Jonathan gets to pick. Oh, yes. Yes. Which tribal council that he's going to be immune for. And maybe he doesn't necessarily get to tell the group.

[00:14:31] Maybe that at the end, like he gets to like, Jonathan, you will get to wear the immunity necklace at one of the two tribal councils. Maybe we won't tell the group that you are immune for which, for which one, but you only get immunity at one or maybe, maybe they'd have to tell, uh, and he, but he only gets to wear the necklace at one tribal council. Um, what do you think of that? I think that's fantastic. I like that because it gives the players a choice.

[00:14:58] I think it's interesting when somebody has to make a hard choice and him deciding which group he feels safer with is really interesting. And then in that case, probably they would put whatever group that he is immune in is the first tribal council. So that at the second, because, because if he's not immune for whichever tribal council happens first, he gets voted out. Now suddenly it's a four person vote. Yeah. I think he would have picked the second one. He would have picked the one with, with Joe and, and Ozzie.

[00:15:26] I think he would have, uh, felt, uh, safer to be exposed that. Yeah. So I think he would have worn the immunity necklace at the first tribal council where Emily went home. And then I think he would have been, uh, you know, had to open himself up to the vote on at the second tribal council. I still think Ozzie goes home. Oh yeah. I think that if he's not wearing the immunity at that second tribal council, he's not actually in any danger. Um, but I like that. I think it adds a little uncertainty.

[00:15:53] It gives the players a little more room to maneuver if they are trying to at least, at least discuss a plan where Jonathan goes home. Um, that's good. That's a good note. The theme is not on trial, but I do think that a lot of these twists are huge and I understand the desire to make a, make a big splash with season 50. But I think that a lot of them would have benefited from like a mini version or just some, some

[00:16:19] alternative version in, in an earlier season, just to like see how it's going to play out a little bit. Yeah. Survivor in season 50, I feel like is a poker game at somebody's house that the game is changing with every new hand of poker. And it's like, we invited the greatest poker players in the world that they felt like, Hey, I'm here to play in the world series of poker.

[00:16:47] And it's like, actually, no, uh, we're going to have really crazy house rules. And in this hand, twos are wild. And in this hand, we're putting a joker in the deck. And in this hand, if you have three clubs, you can do a certain thing. And it's like, well, you're all great poker players. You'll be able to adapt to what this is, but it's also a little bit like, wow, there is just like a lot of different ways that this could go. And it's not necessarily the game of poker that you would expect, but it's exciting. It's exciting.

[00:17:17] That's a great metaphor, Rob. This, I feel like, I feel like Jeff at Tribal Council when somebody has a lot of variance. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's a great, that's a great way to put it because it's what we love to watch these players do. The game that we love to watch them navigate is not exactly the game that they're playing right now. And, and honestly, I'm still loving this season. Let it be said. I'm having so much fun. I think that these characters are fantastic.

[00:17:42] I love watching people like think that they have changed, changed or act like they have changed and then come to realize that they are much the same. I think that that's like really, really interesting. Yeah. But yeah, the, the way we're getting there is very, it's kind of haphazard or chaotic. If you went to this poker game, you would still probably have a fun night at the, this poker night. But you know, if you lost your life savings at this night, you'd feel a little bit like,

[00:18:09] Hey, that was a lot of money to this poker game. It was kind of weird with how they like just kept changing what the rules were every five seconds. But you know, what, what an exciting night. Let's then just start to talk about where Ozzy ends up going out. And I'd love to get your, now that we're able to look as a whole at the body of work, the career of Ozzy.

[00:18:37] How are you feeling about this journey for Ozzy in season 50? Um, I think for him, of course it must be horrible. I mean, just watching him go out, watching how sad he was hearing in his exit press that he stood there staring at his torch for much longer than we even realized. Um, it's devastating, but as a viewer, I thought it was fantastic.

[00:19:01] Um, like I said, I think it's so fun to see these characters. Cause it's like, you know, we are all, we've, we've been cast on Survivor. We're normal people, but there's something about going on the show. Yeah. Normal asterisk. Ish. But there's something about going on the show. The experience that you have, you, you become a character. You become something that's like a little bit larger than yourself.

[00:19:27] And it's so interesting to watch people try to break out of that and try to be something different. And sometimes they can do it, but much, much more often they can't. I mean, we saw that with coach. We certainly saw that with Ozzy in this episode. I think that Ozzy was somebody that I'm gonna be honest. I was not so excited for coming into 50. I was like, ah, I've seen so much of Ozzy. Do we really need him again? And over the course of the season, I was so charmed by him.

[00:19:55] I liked him more on season 50 than I have ever liked him before. And this is honestly the like perfect storybook ending for him in a sense, because Ozzy, like it's Ozzy's just never going to win and that's okay. That's not who he, who he is. He's the guy who goes out with an idol, I guess. Yeah. He's come so close. It does not seem like it is his destiny to win. He probably came the closest to winning in his very first time ever on Survivor, where

[00:20:25] he ends up losing by one vote to Yule back in Survivor Cook Islands. And he's right there in South Pacific, where if he gets to the end, he also probably wins in that game and then ultimately has this face. But I do wonder if, not to say that there's a moral victory here, but this was the most celebrated, I think Ozzy has been as a player. And I feel like that there's some sort of legacy there. Oh, certainly. Yeah.

[00:20:54] And he, I mean, we saw it this episode when I felt worried for Ozzy when they started pulling out the family letters. I'll be really honest. That was a bit of a red flag. But, you know, you see this like emotional growth from him. He's talking about his dad. He's really trying to be Oscar. And he, you could feel that he played the game really differently this time. He really was much more social. He was much more subtle. He knew when to like, I mean, he had a couple of emotional outbursts, but he knew when to

[00:21:23] like hold himself back and play the game. And I think that he should be really proud of that. I feel like the audience has celebrated him and I loved watching it. I do love that basically every time he was separated from Sari, he fell apart very quickly. It really seems like Sari was his grounding force. So that's a narrative that really tickled me as well. Good grounding force. Watching him spiral. Now, Franny, I want to go back to something that you said about how, you know, when you

[00:21:50] play the game of Survivor, that maybe you're sort of like a, you know, inflated version of yourself. How is the Franny that we saw on Survivor different from the Franny that people meet in real life? Oh, oh, wow. What a strange question. Um, I think the Franny on Survivor, uh, well, it's interesting because the Franny on Survivor, uh, was very different from the Franny before Survivor.

[00:22:17] Uh, I think on the show, I was, uh, much more confident. I was, I was putting myself out there and getting together with Matt, winning challenges, just being like outspoken. Um, I never felt that way before going on the show, but then after being on the show and putting myself in that position, now that feels much truer to my personality and I'm, I'm willing to be out there and take swings for things. I mean. So it's, it's good sometimes, you know?

[00:22:43] Jeff, you dropped the ball on not having Franny on season 50 because it's just like we always say that the game is the lore, but the prize is the experience. Look how Franny's changed. Yes. And I would have been on there, Jeff saying everything you want me to say about the experience. Yes. But, but Franny that when you do go back to Survivor, do you think that maybe that it should be the way that you approach the game to let's, let's leave Franny behind and then

[00:23:12] what, what, what's your full government name? Oh, Francis. Francis. Is that maybe what it's going to take for you to win that? Hey, this isn't Franny that's coming back. This is Francis. Yeah. I think this has to be the like, you know, Christian said narrative warfare. That has to be the narrative for anybody who uses a nickname. You say, I'm dropping Franny. I'm going to Francis.

[00:23:39] I don't know what you do if you don't, if you use your government name. Can I share with you? So I in, in the traders and you know, my lot in life is that there's always another Rob. So there's another Rob that's like, Hey, I'm going to end you. And so that we were like, what are you going to call everybody? And I'm like, uh, even though like, I've sort of like gone back to Rob C I'm somehow like if somebody, if somebody comes up to me and says, Oh, are you Rob C?

[00:24:05] This is somebody that does not know what Survivor is, but, but knows me from the traders. And when I was in Scotland, I did like, well, what are we going to call you? What are we going to call? And I did try to say to people like, Hey, you know what? My wife, my, my, my mom, my brother and sister, they call me Robbie. That maybe that I should be, I should, maybe I should be Robbie here.

[00:24:30] It didn't stick, but I did feel like that, uh, I did not want necessarily to incite any Rob on Rob violence, uh, which ultimately, uh, did not do a good enough job. But I did think that the idea of Robbie was maybe more endearing and maybe that people would have warmer feelings to a Robbie than they might to Rob C. Who's afraid of Robbie?

[00:25:00] Who's afraid that Robbie is going to be a strategic mastermind and pull one over? Nobody, nobody. When, when you say it didn't stick, was that production told you? No, no. I was like, I was like trying to say to Candace and to, you know, Monet, like a couple of different people, but they're like, Oh, Robbie. I like it, but, but nobody actually called me that. That's a shame. Maybe that was the key to success. So you're the next show you go on, you have to advocate for Robbie.

[00:25:28] But I've done all this like work on SEO of Rob as a podcast. I can't just like rebrand now. Yeah. Robbie has a podcast. It's not that hard. It's still R-H-A-P. So wait, uh, so you're Robbie? Like, like, like, so like, like, like is your last name Balerdi? Yeah. Yeah. Little known uncle of Sophie Balerdi. Yeah. Uncle Rob. We can start it now. Yeah. I'll call you Robbie. You can, you know, that is what my family calls me, but nobody, nobody calls me that,

[00:25:58] uh, like outside of that. That's so interesting. That's an interesting fact. Cause my, my family, or I mean, not so much my mom, but Matt really calls me Fran and people that are really, uh, that I'm like quite good friends with tend to call me Fran. It's always interesting to me to learn that about somebody, the name that is like the more, the more intimate name. Yes. Okay. Well, that would be, you know, I hope to one day get to that level of that knowing you well enough to get to. We're not, we're not there yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:27] I used to call Malcolm. If you ever want to go for it. I used to call Malcolm Malk. Malk. I felt like that that was a thing that was just for, for me and him. Um, Oh, okay. I don't know if anybody else called him Malk. Nobody else called him Malk. Yeah. Well, with a nickname like Malk, that doesn't proliferate. Got Malk? That's what they say. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:52] I want to know from you now, uh, as I'm watching this game happen in season 50, and I think that this is sort of like, uh, been the case with a lot of new era survivor. I'm reminded of back in survivor 40 where Tony Vlachos popularized the idea of, Hey, it's the lions versus the hyenas. And I'm wondering over these last couple of weeks, do you feel like that it has in some

[00:27:18] ways season 50 has started to turn into the hyenas taking out the lions? Oh, that's an interesting idea. Well, it's, it's fascinating to me that we have not seen that kind of rhetoric much at all so far on season 50. Um, we really have not seen like big threats versus little threats, which is surprising because

[00:27:42] I feel like that, um, you know, it is impossible to go into a returnee season and not have that in the back of your mind. Like who has made a bigger splash and who hasn't. Um, I mean, Aussie going home, Aussie is a big threat. I don't know that Emily was considered a lion. I don't know that Stephanie was considered a lion Christian perhaps.

[00:28:08] Um, what's, what's interesting about this group of people that maybe makes that, um, dichotomy difficult is that I think there are big threats strategically. And in terms of how well they've done in the game, but then there are also big, like narrative threats or character threats.

[00:28:29] Somebody like a Rick who, uh, like, I'm not sure how threatened people are by Rick strategically. Um, I don't know that they think he's going to like pull together a group against them, but he is going to do something chaotic, going to do something crazy. He's going to be dancing around camp, you know, at four in the morning. Um, and I think that people are attuned to that as well.

[00:28:56] Like who's taking up a lot of the narrative and the, the story. Um, and that's a slightly different kind of threat. Yeah. It's interesting of our people going after big names or are they going after who are the threats to win? It was also talked about when after Mr. Beast came and we had the doubling of the prize pot, something I've talked about for some time is that survivor is really not focused on the

[00:29:24] prize money, uh, very much at all. It really doesn't come up in the show. I'm sure the players are motivated by the prize money, but you know, Jeff will often, as he said in this episode, you know, the, that the, the real prize is the experience, but now we've also doubled the prize money. Do you think that the $2 million prize has changed the way that players are approaching the game following the Mr. Beast, super beast beware advantage?

[00:29:53] Super extra mega beast. Um, so this is, there's been lots of discussion about this. I feel like I saw this on chat BCC people discussing if they would play differently or not. Um, this is so fascinating to me because I, I am in the, I guess I'm in the Russell Hance camp. I wish I hadn't said that or thought that, but like, I only care about the title. I can't wait for what comes next. Yeah. Yeah. How is training in the Russell Hance camp? I wear a little fedora all the time.

[00:30:21] No, I, um, I, I really, to me, what's important is the title and the game and winning and the prize money is like so ancillary to that. And trust me, not cause I'm rich. It's just like, it's, it's so much money that it's like a little incomprehensible. And to me, doubling it does not make it any more comprehensible. I'm like, okay, it's a ton of money. You still are playing to win.

[00:30:49] Like to me, it, to me, it wouldn't change anything, but it seems like it has activated the players on 50. Yeah. For sure. I had heard anecdotally. Okay. And take this with a grain of salt that, oh, you know, they did double the prize money for winners at war. And there was a thought that, you know, the players didn't really play much differently. Like it sounded cool to say, oh, this is for $2 million. But ultimately the show was exact. The game played out exactly the same way.

[00:31:18] It would have had the prize been $1 million, but these people had already won $1 million. So we need to like up the price for $2 million. But it wasn't something that the show was really thinking about doing ever again until Mr. Beast comes along. And if it's okay, if it's Mr. Beast's money, okay, sure. Like why not for season 50? Let him do it. We'll go ahead and do it. But I think that that's hard to see, like imagine like, you know, on paper, it's like, sure, now people are really going to play hard.

[00:31:47] But I don't know if the prize pot is still $1 million. I still think Ozzy gets voted out this week. Yes. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I don't think that any of the strategy changes because all of them still want to win. And I don't, there's nobody on that island who is saying, ah, do I want to win? Do I not? Like, I could throw in the towel on this one. But then the coin flips and they're like, okay, now I need to kick it into high gear. Like they all want to win. They've all wanted to win this whole time.

[00:32:14] I mean, the fun thing about the $2 million for Mr. Beast and for CBS is now any big move that happens after that point, they can say, look, they were playing for $2 million. We'll never know if that actually changed anything. I will say, I was glad that they upped the prize money because it did feel a little like wah-wah to me that 40, season 40 had $2 million. And then season 50, it's like, now we're sticking with $1 million.

[00:32:44] And not to mention, you know, we've talked about so much of like the anniversary of the show and that the prize money is the same in season 50 as it was in season one. And let me just say like adjusted for inflation. It's not such a favorable comparison. But you have to make sure you pay the taxes. That's the thing. Yes. That's the big thing. Yeah. Jeff, awfully quiet about the I word. Not really saying inflation much around there. What a big day.

[00:33:11] But you can't, the prize can't be like $1.57 million. That's ridiculous. Yes. Yes. Inflation may have shrunk the prize money, what you get, but it's less days. So if you look at it that way, like amateurized, you know, it's pretty similar if you go by day. What a big year though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hourly rate. For the Survivor winners to be talking about the taxes, that it's really become a thing where both Kyle and Savannah,

[00:33:40] I have seen this tax season, a lot of posting about, hey, look how much taxes I've paid. Yeah. Hey, it's a big cut. And I think that there are, I mean, both Savannah and Kyle, I think were pragmatic about it, knew it was coming. But I have heard of people and people who didn't win, who didn't really realize how much tax money was going to be taken out. They go, they spend a ton of the money, and then now they've got a problem. So, yeah, get it out there for future Survivor players.

[00:34:09] You've got to start financially planning now as if you will win. Yeah. The game isn't the monster. The IRS is, okay? Remember that, everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very important, okay? As some Survivor winners could tell you. Franny, so much of these last couple of weeks, we've talked about the rivalry between Joe and Rick. A very heated rivalry between these two. Not like that.

[00:34:37] But you are in Northern California. And I wonder that, do you have a perspective on Joe? Oh, as somebody who lives in Northern California. Yeah, I'm not sure. Like, listen, geographically, I'm not sure if you run into Joe or if you see him at watch parties. Yeah. So, I have met Joe once at one watch party, and I met him for about 20 seconds. So, I do not have any special insight into Joe.

[00:35:05] But what I can say about him is he really does seem like such a fantastic person. Yes. To spend time with in the real world. Infuriating to play Survivor with. Completely infuriating, like, not somebody that I would want to have to work around. But I also think it's hilarious to watch him be so, like, grumpy and so pouty about everything that Rick Devens does. I think it's so fun.

[00:35:32] And it's just, like, you know, on a season where there are a lot of people playing really hard, you know, doing interesting things strategically, you gotta have somebody who's just not playing that well. Yeah. It, like, offers a foil, you know? So, I'm glad he's there. Yeah, I'm glad he's there, too. I met him a couple times. He seems just, like, the nicest guy ever.

[00:35:55] And I love the obstacle that he has presented at almost every single vote in terms of how do we navigate around Joe in this? This is, I wish I could give credit to where I read this. But I've been on, going through the infinite scroll of social media a lot in my travels.

[00:36:16] And do you think that Joe's issue with Rick Devens is less about Rick personally and more about how Joe looks at Rick as a Kyle or maybe more so Camilla type? Where that Joe just, he's coming off of where he has, you know, not like Rizzo, but he has recently played Survivor. He has recently watched himself lose Survivor.

[00:36:45] And he's coming off a season where he's very wounded from people that did not really give their word in the same way that he looks at the game. And in Rick, I feel like that Joe can't help but be reminded of the types of things that undid him in season 48. And I feel like he looks at Rick as a real reminder of what happened to him in that season.

[00:37:14] And when he talks about, you know, Rick is inappropriate and it's just like, and she's like, what are you even talking about? This is like, how, you know, how much hypocrisy could you have on 500 Hypocrisy Hill? I wonder if it's more about that, that he just looks at Rick as an avatar, James Cameron for Kyle and Camilla in season 48. Yeah, yeah. That's a really interesting idea.

[00:37:44] And what's interesting about it to me is that, I mean, Rick is so different from Kyle and Camilla. I mean, Kyle and Camilla's whole thing was their subtlety. And Rick Devens is not subtle. I think you would agree on that. But for Joe, it's fascinating because some people, when they lose Survivor and then they come back to play again, I think they have this mentality of, I cannot make the same mistake as last time.

[00:38:11] And often that prompts people to change the way that they play and try something different, dig into like a part of their strategy that they didn't before. But for Joe, what it seems to have done is just solidified his like slightly misguided values and prompted him to just generalize that to anybody who lies ever is a problem.

[00:38:36] And then Rick is, of course, the ultimate liar, trickster throwing chaos around. Yeah, it's really hard. That's the thing that when I say that Joe would be insufferable to play with. Like when somebody throws around the idea that something is inappropriate in a game, it's like, come on, man. Like we are all playing a game. Inappropriate. Like we're lying.

[00:39:03] And that's always been a huge thing for me. It's like, if you try to suggest that anything we're doing is out of bounds, then you don't understand the game we're playing. And that's on you. That's really how I feel about Joe. Again, lovely person. But he is letting his wounds from the past really like destroy him and destroy his ability to move through the game. And he's frustrating his enemies. He's frustrating his allies.

[00:39:32] I think there's no world where he can win at this point. But also who's going to vote him out at this point? Yeah. So he's in a very interesting position. Joe is just so out of his element in – and I don't mean this – this isn't a shot at Joe in his survivor playing ability. But I think that when Joe was at his best in Survivor 48, when Joe was at his most comfortable, he's a caretaker. You know, he's – and he's a dad and he's a provider.

[00:39:59] And so in a group of people where it's like, hey, I'm going to – like I'm going to get the fire started for the group. I'm going to take care of Eva when she's down and out. Like people that are there, they don't really need Joe in that way. And I think that – Jonathan doesn't need to be babied by Joe. Yes. And I think that Joe might be feeling as, you know, the great Billie Eilish once said, like, what was I made for? You know?

[00:40:29] He's like – he's without a purpose, I think, in Survivor 50. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Well, and what's interesting about that is I think that's really astute. Like he is the provider. He's the father figure. And there's nobody here who needs him to be in that position for them. But one thing that surprised me this episode is how close Joe seems to feel to Rizzo.

[00:40:52] And I wonder if that relationship is related to this thing where Rizzo is the only person who is like a young buck who like needs a mentor. And so Joe looks at him and potentially sees that opportunity to be a father figure and be like, I have to tell – you know, we have to pull Rizzo into the plan. And Joe kind of sits Rizzo down and tells him what's what. I feel like Rizzo is maybe Joe's outlet for that desire to be a father figure. And that could explain their weirdly close bond.

[00:41:20] Yeah, but there's like a push-pull there where we saw that Rizzo had that with Colby. And Rizzo gets emotional when he talks about like people that are like a dad. He had that with Nate in season 48. And then he had it with Colby here. And we haven't seen that with him, with Joe. And maybe it could be coming down the – like Rizzo does seem to like be looking for sort of like these father figure types to play with.

[00:41:45] And we know that's what Joe wants, but I just feel like that Joe also can tell just like by the cut of his jib, which is really, really cutting these days, that Rizzo is a little bit – he's like not my kind of guy though. You know, he's just a little too slippery. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The jib's not cutting the way it needs to cut with Rizzo. So, I mean, Rizzo, we haven't really talked about yet. Would love to.

[00:42:14] Yes, fantastic week for him, I think. I think that this is a great move on his part. What's so interesting to me is how like agency is being applied in some of these votes. Because Rizzo is shown as having the opportunity to tell Ozzy to play his idol. He doesn't do it.

[00:42:40] But also it really felt like this was Aubrey's move on Ozzy, Jonathan's move on Ozzy. And I'm so curious to see how this will play out for Rizzo. I think from his perspective, he could see this as his move. He had the choice to save Ozzy or not. But I don't know that any other players would see it that way.

[00:43:02] And the only way they would is if Rizzo or Sari exposed how close the three of them were over the course of the whole game. And I don't know what benefit either of them gets from exposing that right now. It's a weird spot. I have had the opposite take on this for Rizzo and Ozzy.

[00:43:24] Because I felt like that coming out of this, I just don't know where the next move is for Rizzo. I understand why this made sense. Hey, Ozzy, you're talking too much. You're blowing up our spot. This needs to be a secret. And you're going to sink us all with talking too much to Aubrey. So I get why he ultimately did this. It sounds good.

[00:43:52] That's like the godfather move to make. But where is Rizzo going next? We have not really seen him with another close strategic ally that he's going to jump ship to. And again, we don't see everything. I'm sure that he probably has many relationships that we don't know about. But I feel like Sari is going to be bummed out about this. And so she may not feel as close.

[00:44:20] I think that she seems to be getting closer to Tiffany over these last couple of weeks. And so could Sari be disappointed with Rizzo? Maybe. But I don't think it's necessarily going to be just like a one for one where Tiffany and Sari will be then working with Rizzo. It seems like that he had something going on with the three of them. And they were moving together through the game. And it was going to be the final seven. Now I just don't know where he stands.

[00:44:47] And maybe this gets him closer to Aubrey now after this. And there's a possibility that he is going to be maybe, as we talked about with Joe. But it seemed like he lost a close ally who wasn't gunning for him. Because out of principle, he didn't keep our secret. So I have to take him out. But I just don't know necessarily. Maybe he goes to the end. And maybe he didn't have a great shot to go to the end and win anyway.

[00:45:16] But I just don't know what the next move is after this. That's so interesting. Because I hear everything you're saying. But I actually feel like he has a lot of places he could go. Because he has demonstrated trust with Jonathan and Aubrey and Joe right here by not tipping Ozzy off to play the idol. Certainly Sari will be incredibly disappointed with him.

[00:45:43] But is Sari going to try to take Rizzo out? I don't know. And even if she does, will she be able to gather enough momentum with the rest of the group? I mean, if there's one thing Sari can do, it's convince people to vote somebody out. So I shouldn't doubt her. But will the rest of the group see Ozzy, I'm sorry, see Rizzo as enough of a threat after this to actually vote him out? I don't think so.

[00:46:06] So I think that Rizzo gets to know this big decision that he made last vote. He knows that he was instrumental in that. But I don't think it will come back to bite him because it's not obvious how big of a role he has. And who's going to target him right now? Who thinks that he's the biggest threat? So if he can stay a little bit longer and make it to the end, and then at that point expose,

[00:46:34] I had this tight relationship with Sari and Ozzy. I had all the pieces to save Ozzy. I chose to get him out for this reason, this reason. I think that that could be really powerful if he does make it to the end. Yeah, I think it's going to be fun to watch how this all develops. This is a tweet I saw that I want to share with you because it's a very interesting one. And this one comes down on the side of it being not the right move for Rizzo.

[00:47:04] So this is from somebody who says, it's not clocking on X.com. Rizzo had a Natalie Anderson moment and fumbled it, warning Ozzy to play his idol, would have kept his ally, sent Aubrey home, and given him a resume move. Instead, he jumped on someone else's move and now his only ally is Sari, the biggest target in the game right now.

[00:47:29] And imagine that where we could have had a moment where Rizzo says to Ozzy, Ozzy, did you vote for who I told you to vote for? And then he's like, yeah, bro, what are you talking about? He's like, well, play your idol tonight, Ozzy, because it's going down. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and I'll give you that. That would have been a fantastic moment. Really, what I'm so curious about is these code words that Sari has mentioned.

[00:47:58] They had code words for playing the idol. I want to know what the code words were. Yeah, I want to know what it was. Yeah. Yes, I want to know, like, does Rizzo have to turn to Ozzy and say, like, you know, you gotta turn on your lawnmower, man. Like, what is the word? Did Rizzo know the code word? Oh, that's a good question. Did Rizzo have his own code word from Sari? I have that impression that they both had separate code words.

[00:48:26] But given how tight the three of them were, I have to imagine that they had them. Really, what I wanted to happen so badly, and I thought we were going to get, I thought that Sari was going to say to Jonathan, who's going back and forth, Jonathan, will you just tell Ozzy from me, say a statement with the code word, and launder the code word through Jonathan to Ozzy? That's what I really wanted to happen. Yeah, and Stephen and Gabby were talking about that on the know-it-alls also,

[00:48:55] that it was, it would have been so great of like, yeah, and I think the challenge was going to be, well, how do you give it to him? But if you say it's like a goodbye message of, hey, just let him know, like, we're going to get flapjacks at the airport. Tell him, just tell him that, you know. Yeah. But I guess it was a blindside also. Don't forget your flapjacks. So it would have been very hard. Right, so that would have made sense. To, like, you know, to be able to do that, but that really would have been so incredible to have like this, like,

[00:49:24] Manchurian candidate, like, type, like, pass along this secret code word that activates Ozzy to play the idol. It would have been like, you know, Sari's greatest move ever. Yes. Oh, yeah. It would have been incredible. Going back to Rizzo, here's the question that I have for you is if Rizzo had saved Ozzy here and had this big, yeah, Natalie Anderson moment, which would have been so fun. Does Rizzo have a chance to win against Ozzy and Sari if he is at the end?

[00:49:53] Well, I think this is a big move on his resume where then he ultimately does save Ozzy, but I think he also needs to dismantle it. So I think that really that there may be no good option for Riz God here, where if he keeps it together, he probably is going to lose to Ozzy or Sari going forward. And then if he gets rid of them, it's also going to be hard for him to potentially go to the end. Maybe he has some other people that are jury goats lined up where he's like,

[00:50:22] okay, well, I don't think Joe is popular with this jury. Let me try to get to the end with him. And boy, Joe's not going to take that while to be losing the final three again. And that's going to be that's going to be tough for Joe just to get ahead of that one. And I'm not sure who else he might see as the person who can't, you know, like there might not be another. Tiffany's rising. Tiffany and Tiffany is, I think, really well liked by the group.

[00:50:51] They didn't even want to write her name down on the vote split. So I think that Tiffany could very well win in the final three. So I'm not necessarily and Jonathan has a lot of friends. So it's going to be tough for, you know, for Ray, like he kind of maybe Emily could have been somebody that he might have been able to. Yeah. Even though Emily has, you know, friends and Rick and Christian, but maybe not too many others. So I think he's in a tough spot no matter what. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that.

[00:51:21] He's I will say, I mean, I think he has had a great run on 50. I have really enjoyed watching Rizzo play. And I think that he has excellent reads. He is really good at making people feel like he's with them. I mean, even like going all the way back to the episode where Coach is freaking out about the vote split and who knows about it and who doesn't. Like the fact that Rizzo was able to take Coach aside and instruct him on how to play Survivor is like so fun and points to how well liked Rizzo is.

[00:51:51] But I think you're right that he like if he was going to dismantle that alliance with with Ozzy and Seri, maybe he had to have done it sooner. Yeah. Like earlier and then forge a path without them for a little longer. And you know what? This is exactly the kind of stuff that Charlie was talking about. How do you take out your number one? Where's the loyalty Riz God? Come on. Where is it? Yes. Charlie knew. Charlie's going to be so pissed when he watched this. He's going to be very upset.

[00:52:18] But, you know, not to compare Seri's Wizard of Oz to the, you know, the vaunted Tika 3. But is there a point where, I mean, we're going into the final seven. Like for that group, like is there a point where it's like, hey, we were sort of like keeping this thing under the radar. Now we're just going to kind of just come out with it, you know. Now what are you going to do about it?

[00:52:46] Like Joe and Rick Devins aren't working together to take out Seri's Wizard of Oz at the next vote. Right, right, right, right. Well, it's interesting to think about if this had been like a normal vote rather than the split. Like is that what would have happened this week? You know, the three of them kind of coming into their own and really taking control. I could see it. I could see them doing that to take out Emily or take out Rick or someone else.

[00:53:15] We'll never know. Yeah, it seemed like that the original plan coming into this final nine was that, hey, we're going to do a vote split for Emily and Rick maybe. And Emily, I think, was probably going to go home. But it also seemed like that Tiffany really seemed to want Ozzy to at least lose his idol. And Seri seemed concerned with the advantage getting of it all. So it was almost like I think what would have happened is that there would have been a vote split on Rick and Emily.

[00:53:44] Rick would have flushed his idol. But Seri would have like given Ozzy the code word to also flush Ozzy's idol, which would have left Ozzy vulnerable. And that maybe that, you know, maybe Ozzy does go out next anyway. Yeah, it's interesting because I think Ozzy, I mean, Ozzy feels betrayal so viscerally. She just seems like a person who struggles to get past that. Like he does eventually after, you know, Christian betrays him and others.

[00:54:13] But I think if Ozzy felt that Seri had deliberately forced him to play his idol when she knew he didn't need to, I think that Ozzy feels incredibly betrayed and then tries to go off on his own, spirals, maybe makes it one more week. Yeah, yeah. Ozzy cycle. So I think that, yeah, it just happens, the Ozzy cycle. Man, and crazy that he had the dream about going home with the idol in his pocket. We haven't talked about that.

[00:54:42] Did you have any dreams that were about the game while you were in the game? I don't think so. I think it was like a dreamless sleep. But I think if you are, if you're a person who has a dream, you have to listen to it. You have to listen to it. The dream about the game. Yeah. There have been some big dreams in the history of Survivor. Sure. Steven brought this up that Ozzy had dreamt, gave him the idea to go to Redemption Island back in Survivor South Pacific, which I had forgotten about.

[00:55:06] But yeah, there had been very notable dreams on Survivor where Cowboy invented planned voodoo from a dream. I believe that Shambo saw Dave Ball killing the chickens in her dream. And that was one of the reasons why Dave Ball had to go home. And of course, dreams took the car from Yao Man. Yeah. Very pathetic dream. The most impactful dream of all. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Dreams are dangerous on Survivor.

[00:55:37] You got to pay attention to dreams. You got to listen to dreams. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I've learned from this. Yeah. Big takeaway. Let's talk about Aubrey, who has been in a very interesting spot where that she has been kind of at points in this game been disregarded. Also, that we hear a lot from her that she's coming. She's getting ready.

[00:56:06] Last week, we heard a lot about that. I love the moment where she ate the bug in the auction. I feel like that that was a real Aubrey-esque moment that really captured who she is. I could see you eating the bug like that, Franny. Oh, okay. I feel like Aubrey's – I feel like you're alluding to the fact that Aubrey's kind of crazy. Do you think I'm kind of crazy like that? No.

[00:56:31] Well, Aubrey was a self-professed psycho, she said, during one of the challenges. I would never describe you as psycho, but I would say that I would describe you as exuberant. And that's the – that Aubrey said, you know what? I'm going to relish this opportunity to find – as Colby once said, find the joy, Aubrey, in eating the grub. She was loving it. Yeah. Yes. And I think I would do that as well.

[00:57:01] She was truly alive, unlike the grub in that moment. Yeah. Unlike the grub two seconds into being in her mouth. Yeah, she was dancing around. I mean, I feel like that's – it's fun to watch people have fun on Survivor. It was like Rick dancing around camp in this episode. That's certainly how I would approach the game. It's fun to have fun. It's not fun to be a bit of a grumpy puss like Joe. But, yeah, sorry. I feel like I sound like I'm so anti-Joe.

[00:57:31] I really – you're fine. You're fine. Yeah. But, yeah, Aubrey's really in an interesting position because, yeah, like you said, she's been – she's been, like, building up to something for a while. We see a lot of her talking about her ramping up her game and her taking control. And, like, I guess maybe getting out Ozzy was that.

[00:57:56] But it's interesting because I think from her perspective, she probably feels like she really orchestrated that Ozzy vote. Ozzy comes up to her, jury manages her, and she's like, F this. I'm going to take control and get him out. But I think if Aubrey had said nothing, Ozzy still would have gone out because of Jonathan and his desire. Oh, let's talk that through because I do feel like that maybe it was not the biggest deciding factor.

[00:58:24] But I think that certainly that to me was sort of the thing that unlocked it because it seemed like basically in the episode that Rizzo's decision to turn on Ozzy came out of Aubrey spilling the beans to Rizzo and ultimately Joe about what Ozzy was saying.

[00:58:46] And so had that not happened, I do feel like that Joe and Rizzo would have been, you know, stuck to the plan and voted out Aubrey. That's a very good point. But then, yeah, true. And they still would have told Rizzo because Joe would have been digging his heels in about it. Okay.

[00:59:06] And not that Aubrey, you know, reinvented the wheel with, hey, Ozzy very foolishly told me the whole plan, like evil supervillain before I'm like I'm tied up and about to meet my demise. He revealed his whole plan to me and I'm just going to go spill the beans to other people. Like that was like, you know, any astute survivor player would do the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But she did do it and they felt good enough about working with her that they weren't like, no, no, no, but Aubrey, we got to get rid of Aubrey.

[00:59:35] You know, it's her time. They wanted to keep her around enough and they also wanted to, Rizzo wanted to punish Ozzy for what he did. Yes. Well, the other thing I'm realizing that that did for Aubrey is people really don't trust her. I mean, you hear Joe say it, you say Jonathan say it. They don't think that they can trust her to work with her on this vote.

[00:59:57] But I do think the fact that Aubrey was going around telling everyone about what Ozzy had said and I really noticed these two moments. Yes, that was the other thing I was going to say is like is Jonathan, I think wisely says to her, you have more to lose. You tell me who you want gone. I like that line from him. And she is. Yes, it was. It was fantastic. And he did the exact same thing with Tiffany.

[01:00:21] He didn't say the same words, but he was like, are you thinking what I'm thinking prompts her to say Ozzy, which I think is so good. Because then if in that moment for Jonathan, if Tiffany had said somebody else's name, if Aubrey had said somebody else's name, he has the split second decision where he could just go along with their plan. Or he could push back and say, I'm really thinking Ozzy. I think that was good gameplay from him. But the fact that Aubrey came forward with this plan rather than just having it be told to her, I think does make it more believable.

[01:00:51] Probably makes Jonathan and Joe more comfortable working with her than they would have been. And I do think going into the end of this game, like I think that it has like sort of turned in Aubrey's favor where I do think that she's been largely disregarded by the bigger group. She's never really been in a position of power in the game. And I think that maybe some people might be looking at her as, okay, well, when I'm trying to go to the end, who are the people I want to sit with?

[01:01:21] Who doesn't have a resume? And I think that they might be sleeping on Aubrey and thinking like, okay, well, she wasn't really ever in power in this game. She doesn't really have any big blind sides. She hasn't really won challenges. So I wish I'd sit next to Aubrey in the final three. And that Franny, if I may just plug one more time.

[01:01:47] Chapter seven of the tribe and I've spoken says shred your survivor resume. Okay. Because the jury is going to vote for the person they like. Not necessarily what you say is your like, well, I won three challenges. And then I also like I had this big move on day 10. And then I also like I played the idol on this day. Doesn't if they don't if they don't like you, they're not going to vote for you.

[01:02:16] And Aubrey does have we know that she has it's a essential part of her story of her history is that she went to a final tribal council and lost to Michelle. And she does have this great story that she could tell to the jury that I think would be something that again, especially against people who are not overwhelmingly beloved. Like I think Aubrey knows how to tell her story.

[01:02:45] Yes, I think that that's true. Who really likes Aubrey on the jury, though? Like who who really is sitting there right now who loves Aubrey and is love for her? Who loves Aubrey? Yeah. Well, I guess you have a better sense of like how these juries go in terms of like that what the deliberation is amongst the jury.

[01:03:09] And so I think that's a key part of like I don't think that she could sit with Sari. And I do. I do wonder. Obviously not. Sari wins against anybody. That sort of like goes without saying. And then of the rest of the field, I do wonder if Rick is you might might be the person that like then if you're going to rank the jury threats. I wonder if Rick might be number two.

[01:03:37] Oh, that's fascinating. Who do you think is the second biggest jury threat left? After after Sari. I think Jonathan. Yeah, he has some friends on the jury in coach and Chrissy. Yes. And Stephanie now. Yes. If Joe's there. Yes. He would be a solid Jonathan vote. Ozzy.

[01:04:00] I think Jonathan did some good jury management, I thought, with Ozzy on the way out also. Certainly. Yeah. I think that Jonathan has done a very interesting combination of gameplay where he is really he is leaning into the loyalty thing with the people who value loyalty. Yeah.

[01:04:22] And he is working with them and gassing them up and, you know, being being a guy with friends with coach and friends with all these people. But I think that he is also there is an element of his game that is subtle and is him actually making moves and pushing things behind the scenes. And I do think that he could articulate that well in a way at final tribal that would get both his kind of like, you know, what was it? What was it that coach said? We're like we're like his knights or is like the brothers.

[01:04:52] I think that he could have those people on his side. The Four Horsemen. Thank you. Yes. How could I forget? That's iconic. Yes. Four Horsemen 2.0. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think that he could easily sway those folks. But I think if he could articulate some of the more subtle work that he's done, he could also sway somebody who's more strategic like a Christian or an Emily.

[01:05:15] I think with Rick, what is difficult is that as we've seen, Joe doesn't necessarily respect the flashy way that Rick has gone about his game. And I think that there are other people on the jury who might also feel kind of turned off by that, like a Stephanie. Certainly. I don't know how well coach would respond to that.

[01:05:40] So it's kind of it's actually interesting to think if Rick and Aubrey were there together at the final three, it's like they've played kind of similar games where they've not really had a position of power. But Aubrey has done it the much more subtle way and Rick has done it the flashier way. Like, I don't know which which comes out on top in that scenario. And then can I give you another person that I think has a maybe better shot than you might expect is Tiffany. Yes, you said that before.

[01:06:07] Yeah, I think that Tiffany is somebody and that was my winner pick. So that would be such a coup if I could get the winner pick. Mine too. And she's somebody who is not just beloved, but also she is starting to have this challenge beast reputation where she's won immunity twice. She was like, really? Like, she's going to be like, technically, I kind of won three in a row.

[01:06:29] So and I would argue perhaps she comes away from this episode, maybe gaining more than Jonathan, because I think that the two people who went out were two people that Tiffany wanted to get out of the game. In she wanted Emily out. She she also was pushing for Ozzy to get out and she doesn't get any blood on her hands. In fact, also that series number one ally in Ozzy is gone.

[01:06:59] And guess who's series new number one ally? It's Tiffany. And also, I wonder if Jonathan's profile from being the quote unquote power broker might be a little bit like as you said, hey, Jonathan's got a lot of friends on the jury. Jonathan's in a really good position. Does Jonathan start to become like a big target of, hey, Jonathan could win immunities. He's got friends on the jury. He could win this thing.

[01:07:26] And coming out of where everybody looked at Jonathan as the person with all the power, could he potentially come away with a giant target on his back? Because otherwise, how would you see it if it's not even a giant target on his back? And Tiffany and Tiffany was much more of like the little finger here where she does. She's like, oh, she got screwed. She should like she was close, but no cigar in the challenge. And then also got what she wanted and doesn't have anybody blaming her.

[01:07:57] Yes. Well, first of all, I have to say, Rob, that I only started watching Game of Thrones for the first time this year. So thank goodness. Now I know what you mean by that. But yes, she does. Jonathan, they call him big finger. Girth finger. Yeah. Girth. Oh, that's girth finger. Hey, he said he said in the challenge, he's like, like, uh, like, uh, curse my fat feet. And Emily said, no, they're not fat. They're girthy. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see if girth finger sticks. We'll try to make that happen. Hashtag girth finger.

[01:08:26] If you're maybe made into this part. Yeah. No, I think that Tiffany is in an excellent position because, as you said, the last two people that she was pushing on very emphatically were Emily and Ozzy. And now they're gone. She had enough of a role in it that she could talk about it.

[01:09:15] And now I'm the one who's sitting here. Um, I think that's fascinating. I don't know how big of an impact the, as somebody who won immunities, I don't know how big of an impact that makes to be totally honest with you. So I feel like it's kind of like, bah, okay, you're athletic. Um, but she does have a good, I think she's, she's, she, it's, I don't think that anybody else in the game is quite at the point of seeing her as a big threat.

[01:09:39] But if she makes it another week, especially if she gets what she wants next week, whoever she wants to go home, then I think she is in a really wonderful position. So I love all this for Tiffany and I'd be so excited with Tiffany for a variety of reasons, uh, to see Tiffany win the game.

[01:09:56] So I was at, uh, on my, uh, tour this week and I, I was up in, uh, Plainville, Massachusetts and I was at a bookstore called an unlikely story. And I was talking with, uh, the proprietor of the bookstore and that I would say that, you know, that, that their family loves survivor.

[01:10:22] Uh, their, their son is like a super duper fan. Uh, uh, you know, uh, really nice guy. He's, he's, he's way into it. But the, um, you know, the, the dad of the family, uh, who has not really like been living and dying with every single season, but is like watching along. And somebody with, with, uh, this perspective on the show was talking to me about, I had mom like,

[01:10:52] Hey, how about Tiffany's like, yeah, but you know what? Her edit, uh, in the beginning of the season, uh, she didn't have a lot of confessionals. So I don't think that she can win. And I just like, wow, every people are so smart. People are even like, you think about like that. It's like really like the soup, the fans are so smart that it almost feels like that because Tiffany and we're, we're not at the point where we're saying like Zach Brown had more confessionals than Tiffany.

[01:11:21] She's really had such a big second half, but that it's almost like that, uh, Tiffany is almost like, uh, disqualified of like, well, she can't win because we didn't see enough of, and this is, again, this is somebody who's a, you know, a great literary mind is looking at it this way. Plainville dad was talking about the edit on. Yes. Yes. Um, what do you think about all that?

[01:11:52] Um, what do you think about all that?

[01:12:16] Um, what I come back to a lot is, and this person did not win, but Genevieve had nothing at the start of her season. Absolutely nothing. And then becomes a huge character on that season, huge enough that she comes back for 50 and is beloved by everyone. And so, you know, I don't know. I'm kind of, I'm feeding right into this argument because Genevieve didn't win.

[01:12:40] And if Genevieve had one season 47, maybe we would have seen more from her at the beginning, but I don't think that anybody can be fully disqualified. Yeah. Based on edit, especially at the beginning of the game with, with that many people. It's hard also. And, and so much of the talk in season 50 has been, uh, the, you know, about the edit and certainly the disparity between the male survivor players getting more confessionals than the women getting the confessionals.

[01:13:08] Uh, so, you know, you have all, all of that. And on top of it, I think that the editors were pretty good. Not perfect. Uh, with 18 players. Okay. It's like 18 players, 26 days. Okay. We, we, we, we're going to give everybody something and you that I really feel like they, they tried. I think that in 24 players, especially when it was like one group that was consistently going to tribal council.

[01:13:36] I think it was very hard for them early on to be able to tell all of these stories. And it's very unfortunate that the people who kind of got lost in the shuffle were, uh, you know, uh, Tiffany and Camilla and Chrissy. And it was like, uh, you know, uh, it was, uh, the three women that were from that original starting tribe. Also that wasn't going to tribal council, obviously Angelina as well.

[01:14:03] And, uh, I think that they, they sort of like, just like bit off more than they could chew with 24 people. Yeah, I think that's real. And, and again, they were on a starting tribe with coach. Right. And so it's like anything that the, the editors are, they, they, they're going to give some little fun camp scene from that, from that tribe, even if they're not going to tribal. It's, I understand for them, they have somebody as wacky as coach.

[01:14:31] They want to put some of that content out there. And so I think that, yeah, they, they got overshadowed and it's a shame because my, my perception is that there was a lot of. There was conversation happening on those tribes. I think that they were all setting foundations for what would have been really interesting strategy if they had gone to tribal and it, but also you, you can't ignore the results of the season.

[01:14:56] If they never go to tribal, it's not, you, you know, the viewer can only see so much. And it's, it's a shame that you can't show every conversation that happens. Obviously we would have a much better understanding of the players. And, but yeah, it really hurt them in a sense that they did not go to tribal early for this reason. And I think in the case of Tiffany, I think that to put myself in the editor's position, I think that they probably were like, okay, well, no, but Tiffany, her stuff is coming.

[01:15:25] Like her story, her story doesn't really start until the merge, but I can't help, but feel like that. But maybe is this, are we not, since we didn't see her story from the start, is it, is it a little damning in terms of her overall chances to win? And just to argue with myself, you know, certainly we have had where Erica has won. We have had where Gabler has, has won.

[01:15:49] And these were unconventional winner edits, but it, I guess anything is possible. They could, they could throw anything at us, but it doesn't feel as likely as some of the other outcomes. Yeah. I think that Jeff says all the time, right. There's no such thing as a winner's edit. I think he genuinely believes that and he doesn't understand that the audience doesn't believe that.

[01:16:16] They forget that, that everyone watching the show, you know, we're trying to follow the narrative threads of what everyone's doing, what the arc of their game is. And when it feels like somebody's narrative thread is broken or disjointed, it's very hard to imagine them winning. And I think that, yeah, for, for the producers and for Jeff, when they know the whole story, it's easy for them to say, oh, it's coming. Or like, well, it makes sense that their big climax would be at this point, but that, you know, we don't have the benefit of having the whole story.

[01:16:43] We're seeing it one bit at a time and it's confusing and it makes you start to make assumptions about the rest of the game for sure. And yeah, that's, that's where my worry is for Tiffany, to be honest. I do think that she's been shown a lot more. She, the actions that we've seen and like the, the results and what she wants all seems to put her in a really good position. But has she been shown as the leader in these conversations? Not really.

[01:17:13] And that, that worries me too. But I feel like if we were there in the real time, if we were sitting there on the beach in day 22, I think I'd be like, wow. Wow. You know what? I really feel like, you know, Tiffany is, is getting hot at the right time and a lot of things are going her way. 100%.

[01:17:31] Well, and the reason that, and I'm curious to hear your rationale, the reason that Tiffany was my winner pick at the very beginning, besides the fact that I just love her and think she's fantastic, is I think that a like under the radar or like slightly lower profile, lower threat woman tends to do well on returning player seasons. I mean, Tony is the exception to that. There are a lot of examples where that's the case.

[01:17:56] And Tiffany did very easily get through the whole first part of this game because nobody's going to be pointing at her immediately and saying she's the hugest threat. So I think she's an excellent winner pick for that reason. And hopefully she's still got. Those are all of the reasons that I was thinking also where she was somebody. And I had her in the draft in season 46, and I felt really good about her chances all the way through. She found idols in season 46.

[01:18:25] She also was somebody who was great at the challenges. She has a great social game. People really love her and they want to be around her. And so I thought that she just had so much going for her. And again, she did not have that profile of in terms of and with all fairness to Tiffany in terms of like if you were going to rank the people, which is very arbitrary and reductive in terms of like who are the biggest profile people that are coming back for this season.

[01:18:55] And she would probably not be at the top of that list. And I think that those are the people that historically, as you alluded to, have done very, very well. I was there when and I spent time with one Rob Mariano the other day and he was recounting about how he felt like that one of the things that really got him and Amber that, you know, in the early days that bonded them were like, hey, we're the two people that nobody thinks should be here. So and that was something that really, you know, bonded them together.

[01:19:26] And it was like people were not necessarily gunning for like, oh, we got to get rid of Amber. We got to get her to Rob. And so it has historically helped them. And it has been the case in many of these all star seasons where it's somebody who you're not really thinking about who ends up doing particularly well. So I'm thrilled for her that it's gone so well because I felt like that there was a point earlier in the season where it did not look like it was going to be a good run for Tiffany. And I think that she's one of the few people in this season that could be pointing to season 50 and say that this was my best season.

[01:19:56] Like this is my Kelly Wentworth, you know, coming back in second chances where that I'm doing even better than I did originally. Yeah, well, it's interesting because this is I mean, I'm sure the moment for Tiffany where D goes home is like horrifying. You feel like your game is over. But, you know, should Tiffany make it to the end? This is a much more interesting story for her that she can tell to the jury than if she had just skated by the whole way through. Nobody's voting for her because they don't think she's a threat. And not for nothing.

[01:20:24] It is huge to have D as the first member of the jury. If you're Tiffany and you two are working so closely together. D has got to be rooting for Tiffany here. And I think that the early jury members, especially if there's somebody vocal like D, can make a big impact on how the rest of the jury views the folks in the final three. And I could certainly see D as something for Tiffany there.

[01:20:50] The other the the relationship that I'm really curious about that has not been discussed in a long time. Are Tiffany and Aubrey still close? Do you think? I'm so confused by this. Myself. And you guys and you got to it. So, yeah, they had that moment where they were on the swap tribe together and Genevieve was talking about Aubrey. And Tiffany is like, like, oh, hell no, we're not doing that. We're not going against Aubrey. That's my girl. I love Aubrey.

[01:21:17] And they, too, have had very similar trajectories and stories in the end. And that would actually be a very interesting matchup if they both got to the final three of like how they're both sort of arguing the same story of like I was on the bottom. I was discounted and nobody wanted to work with me. But I clawed my way back. And they both kind of have that.

[01:21:40] But I do feel like that, you know, if it's Aubrey who's there and Tiffany on the jury, when you go back and look at Survivor 46, I think that a part of Kenzie, a part of Kenzie's win was that Tiffany, I think, is one of the best jury stump people. I'm not sure what the like, but one of the best jury hype people that you could have.

[01:22:06] So Tiffany, if you are a friend of Tiffany, having Tiffany on that jury, I think is something that I think that Tiffany is so persuasive and well-liked that I think that her opinion carries a lot of weight. Yeah. So really, if you're a friend of Tiffany, you should be voting Tiffany out right now. That's what Kenzie was thinking and then decided not to do it. Yes. Yeah. But it worked out for her. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because I agree that Tiffany would be doing that for Aubrey.

[01:22:36] I don't know if Aubrey on the jury would be stumping as hard for Tiffany. I don't know if that goes both ways. But it's so curious because they're both still here. That was really the first big moment that we saw from Tiffany of the whole season. And really, one of the first positive moments we saw from Aubrey the whole season that wasn't this rivalry with Genevieve was those two connecting. And it's fascinating that we have not seen them talk in weeks.

[01:23:05] Maybe that'll come back around this week. Now that we're in a much smaller group, they could reconnect. But there was a thread for that relationship that has been dropped, and I sort of don't understand why. Yeah. I haven't seen them talk in a while. It's just that really we've seen Tiffany with Sari so much. And I think that it's like we have just been so focused on that. And it's so fun that Tiffany and Sari, like they could be like a podcast where it's sort of like, you know, Sari is right there.

[01:23:33] And Tiffany is like, oh, that's not right. That's, you know, like, are you kidding me? What the hell? Yeah. Like, I know. Yeah. I know. It's just like a very fun back and forth. Yeah. Sitting in the hammock. I love it. So, okay. Sari and Tiffany, please don't end me. I've worked so hard to get here. Please don't start a podcast and take everything from me. C&T. Have a pee. Yes. C-T-A-P.

[01:24:02] Franny, I have some questions for you from the listeners. And let's see. There's so many questions here for you. Oh, fantastic. That's fabulous. Okay. Let's see. True thoughts on Billie Eilish's concert movie. We already covered that. Slonky beans. Okay. Yeah. We talked about it. We've given Billie enough time on this podcast. Yes. Yeah.

[01:24:32] I mean, what I'll say to that is it is fun. If you really like Billie Eilish, you're going to love it. If you don't know Billie Eilish that well, it's a concert movie. It's cool. Okay. All right. Here's a question from Cupcakes. Sarah Cupcakes wants to know, what do you think would be most helpful for Emily to implement if she were to play again? Ooh, fascinating. Well, yeah. And we haven't talked much at all about Emily's big move here, which I have to say I loved. I loved it so much.

[01:25:00] I think that, you know, if in a world where Sari doesn't have the extra vote, this move works and we are regarding it as one of like the greatest moves of all time. So just want to give Emily her flowers for that. I think if she goes back, what she really needs to implement is discretion. She really needs to work on secret keeping, I would say. Okay. I've been saying this to people when they ask me what it's like to watch Emily play.

[01:25:30] Because, you know, I'm friends with her. We play Clock Tower together fairly often. And my experience has been incredibly validating. Because whenever I play Clock Tower with Emily Flippen, she tells everyone all of my secrets immediately. So on 50, I was glad like, oh, okay. It's not a me issue. She maybe does this with a lot of people. But the thing about Emily is, and this is true when I play Blood on the Clock Tower with her,

[01:25:58] when she is, when she's good, when she's trying to tell the truth, she tells everybody secrets and it feels kind of chaotic. When she is evil in Blood on the Clock Tower and she is lying to your face and she has some master plan, then she's locked in. She's very controlled and she can execute very well. And I feel like that's what we saw from her this week with this move. She flipped to the evil side and she knew she had to lock in.

[01:26:26] So I think for Emily on her next run, she needs to tap in to that evil Emily, controlled, strategic, and, you know, not go blabbing everybody's information. Okay. And on that note, our friend Owen asked, can you give us a clock tower analogy as we go into the end game? Oh, as we go into the end game. Let's see. Let's see.

[01:26:56] I think that right now, this is a deep cut clock tower analogy, but for those of you who are deep into it, there is a role in Blood on the Clock Tower called the atheist. Oh. And the atheist role means that in that game of Clock Tower, there's actually no evil team and the storyteller is the enemy. And in order to win an atheist game, you have to vote out the storyteller.

[01:27:25] I feel like that situation is akin to where Sari is at in this game. How do you vote out the storyteller? You nominate them. And you, you can, that's something you can do. And what happens if they can't? Isn't that crazy? I'm like, okay, I am dead now. The game goes on. So, so if it, so if there is no atheist role in play and you vote out the storyteller, you lose. The good team loses. Wow.

[01:27:53] So it's, it's this dance of like, do you believe that there is an atheist in play? If you do, you have to vote out the storyteller. I feel like Sari is kind of in this position where she's pulling so many strings. She is really setting the narrative. She's the storyteller of this season so far. And up until this point, there've been different groups firing at each other. There's like the honor and integrity group.

[01:28:21] There's the, the Emily Devins Christian group. They're, they're going against each other. They're seeing each other as enemies. But I think that people are going to get wise to the fact that the true enemy is Sari, who is controlling everything. And they need to turn around and vote her out to win the game. Yep. And just like in the atheist game, if they vote her out, we all lose. We all lose the game. We all, yes.

[01:28:45] But I really do think that, and I've talked to so many people this week of like, I've been, you know, around so many Survivor fans. I've like heard so many opinions and like universally people are so invested in Sari winning this season. And people like Emily Flippin and people are Emily Flippin fans. When she got voted out, people screwed. They were so elated that it wasn't Sari. They were just so happy.

[01:29:14] It was nothing against Emily. It was just like, it's not Sari. We can live with this. Any other outcome besides Sari, anybody but Sari. And I just am, I feel like that Sari has really lost a very, like if, like whatever, like sci-fi you want to use. Like that Sari has lost her shields. The shields are down and she's vulnerable now.

[01:29:39] And I wonder if she can survive this. And if she can, that we know she wins if she gets to the final three. She has to get through seven, six, five, and four. Four more rounds of the game to get to this win. And I just don't know how, what the reaction will be if we've gone through all of this season 50, which at times I think has felt like it could be a coronation for Sari. That she's the greatest to have never won.

[01:30:09] And this time she's gonna do it. And if it doesn't work out, I just, I don't know if people will be able to, I don't want to say live. But I don't know if people can have any other satisfactory outcome to all of this. Because it's been dangled. And it's been dangled before.

[01:30:34] But this really, like I just think that the crash out could be like nothing we've ever seen before. Yes. It has, it has been dangled like we've never seen before. I mean, I have, this is the, like I was saying earlier about Ozzy. This is the season that I've best liked Ozzy. This is the season I've best liked Sari. And I've always loved Sari. It's like she is so good.

[01:30:59] She always surprises me with how impeccable she is at playing people, knowing where everyone stands in the game. What I'll say is, I feel like she could continue to surprise me. It seems impossible that she could get through the next, what did you say, like three or four votes. But she always finds a way, or at least on this season, she has always found a way to like make it through a difficult situation.

[01:31:27] I do think that if she goes home, the crash out will be absolutely legendary, in fact, legendary derogatory. Especially if it comes by way of some like, hey, okay, well, we're going to have, we need to boot out two people in this episode. And so in this episode, you know, the person who wins the reward challenge is going to have three votes and vote out two people.

[01:31:50] And if it's, if it's something wacky and Sari goes out on like sort of like a, a wacky twist here, that's not just straight survivor. It will, it will not be received well. Yeah. Well, really what I think we're, I think we're building to one of two things with the narrative of season 50. Either, like you said, this is a true coronation.

[01:32:15] Sari is, is, is brought to this point where she finally actually wins and it's everything we've always hoped for. Or Sari goes home at the hands of somebody who goes on to win is kind of what I'm feeling. It's like she, we are, we have so much momentum behind her. Everyone loves her so much. I think if somebody else on that beach is going to turn around and blindside her, vote her out.

[01:32:42] Then that person, like they become the dragon slayer. You know what I mean? Like they have to go on to win. Otherwise it's like, what was the point of that? And so, like you said, I think it's worst case scenario. If she goes in some wacky thing, the fact that the, the, the, there are idols out of the game. Now there's only the one remaining idol with Rizzo makes me less worried about like an advantage get in situation. Cause it was getting dicey.

[01:33:11] But it was so dicey. And even this week, I saw some people saying this on Twitter, like the, there was immense risk in dividing them randomly into two groups of four. Because they could have had on one tribe, Ozzy with an idol, Rizzo with an idol, Rick with an idol. Jonathan with immunity. Jonathan who's protected. Yes. That could have been horrendous.

[01:33:36] But I think that at this point, hopefully Sari will, if she goes, have the, have the honor of going in a way that is. Yeah. Classic survivor. Normal survivor. Okay. Keep our fingers crossed. This is from Sean pretends to be an athlete asks, do you have any more Jimmy Fallon jokes? Now, did you have any Jimmy Fallon jokes? I've never had a Jimmy Fallon joke.

[01:34:02] Or, or, or is our, is this a person confusing you with Gabby? Well, understandably, we're both on RJP this week, easily confused. Gabby and I have a lot in common. Um, no, Gabby really had the, the Jimmy Fallon themed standup routine, uh, at the RJP Toronto. Um, you know, I have no special love or hate for Jimmy Fallon. Um, and I'll leave that, uh, roasting to Gabby Pascusi. She's better at it. Okay. All right.

[01:34:32] Uh, ready, set, greed, Joe says that you think, I may, it is all one word. I may be reading that wrong. Do you think. Oh, this, this is my friend, Adam. I know. Adam wants to know, do you think this new final nine twist is guaranteed to return in the next few seasons? Oh, fascinating. Yeah. Um, that's a great question, Adam. Um, I don't, I don't know.

[01:35:00] I mean, I, I actually think that some form of it will return because I think that Survivor is probably really happy with how this played out. I think results oriented, it was a very interesting episode. Um, and I do actually, I, we kind of said this, I do like the twist. I think it would be, um, better if there were more people. Yeah. Like if this happened at final, what would that be? 11. And it's do it at 11. Um, I think that, um, could be interesting at 13 instead, uh, like to do it there instead

[01:35:29] of like a mergatory because there's there. I don't think that we really get too many interesting things happening like at 13, it's too big of a number, um, to have that many people. Like even look at the one big vote we had this season with D at 14, where, uh, there's just too many people. It ended up being just like a lopsided vote. If you were going to do two tribes and then if you, if you want to do this again, I just think it was too much power at this late in the game. Um, totally.

[01:35:57] I actually love this as a, as a proxy for mergatory because you can have people, um, you can, I mean, there are a couple of ways you could do it, right? You could have one person sit out and then the two groups. So that, that's a big advantage if it's a, if it's a rock draw to then be immune for two votes. But, um, I like that. I like that because there's enough people in the game still that there's a lot of room to maneuver. But I think the, the back and forth is super interesting because the, to the, and this

[01:36:26] is speaking from my personal experience in a twist similar to this on 44, the worst part about splitting into two groups, not the worst part, but one of the worst parts is that there is no conversation between these two groups. Um, on my season, I will maintain to this day that if, uh, if when Matt was split away from me, my lover was, was ripped from my, my arms.

[01:36:54] Um, if, if my group had been. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. My, my, what did she say in her poly relationship? My lover. Um, uh, if, if, if we had been able to talk to the other group, I really think that something different would have happened. I don't think that would have gone home. So I think it's just so unforgiving, um, to be ripped from your allies with no cross

[01:37:22] communication, but even having one person as the power broker going back and forth, there's an opportunity to relay information. And that, that like fixes it a little bit to me. And I think you nailed it with having it at the mergatory, because I think that what you could do is you could have like the big challenge where you have like the split into two groups, but then the winning group, okay, you won the first heat. Now you're going to do individual immunity and the person like, cause you've won two challenges.

[01:37:50] And so I think that's like, if you were going to make one person immune for two votes. Okay. And it's the final 13 and the final 12. I think that that's fine as opposed to now you were safe through two of the biggest votes historically than, you know, nine and eight where the game can really, you know, turn on a dime at that point. I like that more, uh, just to, uh, to yes. And the power broker twist. To yes. And, and I will yes.

[01:38:18] And even further Robin call back to the suggestion that you had earlier, which was in that setup when this is a mergatory, the, the winning group, um, gets to be at the second tribal council. And I think the winningest person, the power broker should be immune at the first tribal and not immune at the second. Interesting. Like you said. Yeah. So they, they have, they get through one vote and they have some power.

[01:38:44] And then at the second one, they, nobody has immunity at the second tribal council. I think nobody has immunity. If Christian could vote for himself, we could have no immunity at the, and we've already, we've actually had that in survivor, in survivor, uh, Pearl islands that the, the final five, I think, uh, that they, they did a quiz against the jury. And if the jury won, like they all had to hold things up. I don't remember this at all.

[01:39:14] Uh, yeah, they had a quiz and they had to answer questions. And if the jury won, the jury would be immune and that nobody in the group had the immunity. I think that the jury did win. And I think that nobody was immune. Um, I know I will get so much crap if I got that wrong. But I do, I do believe that there is, there is historical precedent. Uh, and I'm not going to look it up right now. Cause that's, that's bad for the podcast. I'm here for the listeners. I'm here for the, I'd rather be, I'd rather be wrong and entertain you. Then be right.

[01:39:43] And then you have to watch me type for a minute. Yeah. That's the greatest punishment of all. Yeah. So I don't want people to be bored while I'm typing. Okay. Um, of course, of course. So this is from Andy Huber who says, as an expert in joy, how proud is, uh, how proud is, uh, no, I, I, but I first heard this. I thought they were going to ask how proud is Franny? Uh, as an expert in joy, how proud is Colby of Rick's dancing sequence? Oh, but you're an expert in joy.

[01:40:12] I thought it would be you, but this person wants to know about from Colby. Hey, Rick. Yeah. I just want to say, so great. You found the joy and you did a dance, a happy dance. I'm so proud of you, my guy. That's a verbatim. I heard what Colby said when he watched this episode. Um, yeah, I think Colby and I are joint ambassadors on joy. Um, I love that scene. I thought it was so fun. I mean, it's really like, it's fun to watch people you like have fun.

[01:40:37] Um, and it's, it's also sometimes fun to watch people that you're rooting against not have fun. And so this, this was a great episode for me. I love Rick Devins. Um, and that's, that truly is my mentality too. It's a game, have fun. And sometimes you play best when you allow yourself to have experienced the joy, loosen up a little bit. And that is just like, there, there's this fear that I think a lot of players go into the game with, especially new players.

[01:41:05] You just don't want to make a mistake and go home early. But I think that fear can really tighten you up in a way that hurts your game. Um, can't be fair. You gotta be loose. You gotta be loose. You gotta have fun. Uh, I really do think that that's so important, uh, in, in everything. And, you know, I, I have, you know, I was actually inspired a little bit by, um, going back to Riz, just to tie this back to, uh, the Riz God.

[01:41:32] Um, I love to read, uh, books on self-development and I know that people will make fun of, uh, that type of thing. Um, but Rizzo in his season 49 press talked about that. He read a book called, uh, how champions think. And, uh, I read that book and it was talking about how, um, you know, and I think it's an

[01:41:55] older book about how people who, and it's written from the perspective of a golf pro of talking about how that he worked with all of the greatest golf pros of all time. And the people who are the, the best at golf, you know, are having fun when they're doing it. You can't be great at what you do unless you're having fun. And I also, then I ended up reading another book, which is, uh, similar. It's called the inner game of tennis.

[01:42:25] And it's also similar of that, uh, you know, if you want to become one of the best in the world of tennis, you're having fun when, and in that book, they talk about. That you have two selves, you have self one and self two. And self one is the self that's thinking about, okay, I'm going to take the ball. I'm going to throw it up in the air. And then when it comes down, I'm going to hit it as hard as I can. And then I'm going to move to my left. And then I'm going to, and that's like your thinking brain.

[01:42:51] But when you are really at your best, it's self two that takes over. And self two is the version of you that is the playful, fun version of you. That's just doing and not thinking because you can't be a master at a thing. If you're thinking when you're, when you're mastering a thing, you're just doing, you know what to do and you're having fun doing it.

[01:43:21] And I think that Rick has really gotten into that place. And I think that we've seen so many people, especially in the new era, struggling with the self one of, I am like, okay, I'm overthinking every single thing and I'm sort of getting tied up. And I know myself, I am often in that place. And it's something that I do consistently try to work on. How do I get to being self two?

[01:43:47] And, um, you know, it's a, uh, a really fun thing to think about in terms of how people play on these shows. And I think that the greats just do. When I think about how Boston Rob plays, you know, how, how Parvati plays, uh, you know, series, not like getting too twisted up with what am I going to do next? Uh, that, that these, the greats are just, that they're just there and they're, and they're being, and they're doing, and they're not thinking.

[01:44:18] Yeah. A hundred percent. And you can feel that you can feel with somebody when somebody is in their self to yourself, like you can feel when they are just enjoying and doing, and I'll, I'll tell you, Rob, you know, how champions think this is my MCAT secret that I always tell people is that on the morning that I took the MCAT, that I got a perfect score instead of last minute studying, panicking, stressed out.

[01:44:46] I put on a song. I danced around. I sang in my car and I skipped into the testing center and then, and then I got a perfect score. So this is really like, there, there is something to this release of tension. And this is something that I have learned, um, you know, about more in the last couple of months. And this is about a year ago.

[01:45:11] I had a, uh, a big argument with my wife about a year ago where I was cramming for a big, a big test that I was going to go take in Scotland. And I was headed to Scotland and I said, boy, I am going to really just, I'm going to be so prepared for this thing I'm going to go do in Scotland. And I'm going to learn every single thing I can about every single tell every single,

[01:45:41] uh, piece of information that I could absorb. I'm going to learn everything about every single real housewife that ever existed. And I'm going to do everything because I'm going to just have all of the information, all of the knowledge, uh, in my head before I go. And, and, uh, at the expense of my wife is asking me to do things. I'm like, babe, uh, do you realize I got, uh, like I have to, I'm preparing for like this,

[01:46:09] for this hugely important opportunity. Like, uh, I can't prepare enough. And she said to me, you know what? You're, you're preparing too much. And I was like, I laughed in her face. I said, prepare too much. Do you hear yourself? Are you like, do you, that is absurd. Do you? Yeah.

[01:46:34] She's like that you just like, uh, you, you know it and you just go do it. And my wife is very wise and she is much more, you know, uh, she, she's not necessarily going to be a studier, but she, but there's a lot of wisdom in, in what she says. And she can, I think, tap into herself too, in a variety of different ways. And I laughed and I laughed and I laughed and I got there. I'm like, I have no idea what's going on.

[01:47:02] And ultimately, uh, like it, it didn't go great. I wasn't necessarily, uh, feeling like I, I am, uh, you know, I, I, I did have a lot of fun on the traders, but, but I do feel like I wish I would have, uh, known what I know now about the difference between being sort of like an overthinker versus somebody who's just doing, and, and my wife was absolutely right about that. Yes.

[01:47:30] Well, and here's the, here is the like ultimate secret of all this, in my opinion is I think it is in general true. When you tap into self too, and you're having fun and you're just doing, you will in many cases be more successful. Um, we've seen it time and time again, but if you in present, but if you do that and you

[01:47:53] still fail, you will still have had a better time than if you, you're going to feel so much better failing as self too, than as self one. Because when you fail as self one, you're overthinking. I should have done this. I should have done that. When you fail and you had a wonderful time and had so much fun, then you're resilient to that failure because you, you still had a great time and nobody can take that away from you. That's how I feel about my experience on survivor.

[01:48:20] I got voted out and I was like, I could not have had more fun and therefore I'm the winner. You know what I mean? And so it's like, there's no downside to tapping into self too, because you will probably do better. And even if you don't, you will feel better afterwards. That's really what I believe about all things. To bring it all back around, Ozzy certainly was dealing with issues of self one and self two this week and self two knew.

[01:48:46] Self two, that the version of him that knows what to do, that isn't thinking about it, that just innately knows like how to move and where to go is like, we play the idol tonight. This is it. This is the move. And Ozzy's like, I don't know. I got to think it through. I'm going to save it and have it for something. And the Ozzy inside of him knew what the right decision was.

[01:49:12] And he ignored it and listened to the, you know, the thinking part of the brain instead of the doing part of the brain. And ultimately that's, that's his downfall. And it's hard to say like what, what an interesting ironic turn of fate that Ozzy is done in by overthinking as opposed to just feeling and going with what comes naturally. Isn't that, isn't that interesting? Yeah. That is an interesting twist of fate. I know. I never thought we'd see the day. Yeah. Um, yeah.

[01:49:41] Ozzy self two is like screaming at him from REM sleep saying like, you're going to go home not playing the idol. You just got to do it. Yeah. Well, everybody tap into self two. Tap into self two. I don't know if they're, we're going to find a better place to end on. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. We've, we've taken the listeners on a journey and we've given them nuggets of good journey and nobody lost their vote. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, nothing random. No draws from a bag.

[01:50:11] You have fun on this journey. A lot of things random, I would say, but nothing from the draws from a bag. Yeah. I feel like this is, I feel like we had a lot of promos. We're probably Billy Eilish, Mr. Clean, whatever the self two book is. Forget about that. Forget about the inner game of tennis. Let's talk about the inner game of survivor and you'll learn all about it. There is a strategy guide in here, but just like read it and, and have it at the back of your head.

[01:50:37] But ultimately you want to be feeling, uh, and, and, and, and just moving as you, you, you know, internally you should. Okay. All right. Franny, anything else on your mind that you want to just make sure we get to? Oh, um, I've said this already, but I really am having so much fun this season. I feel like, um, we've had, as we said, with the editing, there are certainly people who were on season 50 who I wish we had seen more of.

[01:51:06] Hopefully we'll get opportunities to see them again, but there are so many characters who I feel like we've really gotten to revisit or dig back into in ways that are like so satisfying or so interesting. Um, and I can't wait for the rest of the season. I feel like we're set up for a really exciting run and yeah, glad to be here with you, Rob and talk about it. And no matter what happens, we got to remember to try to be more raped Evans and, and a little less Joe in terms of like, if the outcome, we're not getting the outcomes we want, uh,

[01:51:35] you know, let's not call the show inappropriate and, uh, you know, be really, you know, uh, down unless we get exactly what we want. We got to make sure of like, listen, this, this was, has been special survivor 50. Uh, and it's been, it's been haywire at times, but compared to, you know, like in the fall, there really was not a lot of enthusiasm around survivor 49, nothing against the people who played in survivor 49, but it was just very low energy.

[01:52:04] I felt overall across, uh, the survivor community. And in season 50, uh, it's been, it's been really night and day. And I do hope that, uh, this enthusiasm continues to carry through the end of the season and, uh, beyond because it's been a really fun couple of months. Yeah, totally. And all, and, and, and to the people who have a hard time with twists, have a hard time with, you know, the structure of the game. It's like, this is your favorite show.

[01:52:30] You are watching your favorite show on season 50, do a little dance like Rick Devins, click your heels, because this is awesome. It's so cool. And nobody can take that away from you. Yeah. Okay. Uh, so go on out, join Franny and check out, uh, hit me hard and soft. Is that what it's called? The tour, the tour live in 3d. The tour live. Directed by James Cameron. Directed by James Cameron. And James Corden also. Yeah.

[01:53:00] Yeah. And then Franny, where can people keep up with you? Well, people can keep up with me on all platforms. I'm at hail the veil. Hail the veil. Um, and at hail the veil, you can keep up with me playing clock tower. Yes. Um, I play on Dwight Moore's streams on Saturdays often. Hopefully there's more, uh, R.H.A.P. clock tower coming down the pike. Would love that. I would love to play more. I really would.

[01:53:27] It's just, it's been, you know, and maybe as we get into the summer where it's a little bit more of, you know, where, where Taryn carries a lot of the load on big brother, where I have like a little bit more, uh, time to be able to, uh, do different things. Maybe, uh, maybe I'll get the chance, but the problem is you all are so good that it's, uh, like it'd be very hard for me to come in. Yeah. I, yeah, that you, you are all in yourself too bag in blood on the clock tower. Or, and I am very much in myself one.

[01:53:57] I don't, I don't know what this, you asked me a question. I'm not going to answer it cause I don't want to give anything away. Uh, I don't know what I'm doing. Yes. And then we're like, Rob sauce. We got to vote. Take advantage of him. Yeah. But I see how many people are so excited. People, people really love it. And so, um, you know, I, I, and people ask me about it all the time. Like when, when's there going to be more, uh, blood on the clock tower? I'm like, yeah, talk to Steven. This is, this is the number one question. I got it at the Toronto event.

[01:54:26] These people were like, wait, when's it, where can I watch more clock tower? I was like, Hey, we're working on it. Um, so we'll get you in there, Rob. And we'll let's make an alliance right now. I will not vote to execute you on. I really feel like that. And again, this is like, we're sort of like just to bring this to like the plight of survivor has. So in the blood on the clock tower, super fan community, like we need to, we need this twist. We need this, uh, have this, make it more complicated and make it different, different, different.

[01:54:55] And it's for, you're really playing to like the back of the room where here I am. I'm like one of the casuals of saying like with survivor, but like, but when are we going to see them go fishing? Uh, like, uh, what's it like, where are they sleeping? Let's play trouble. Right. Like, why don't we do, why don't we do more to bring in the casual fans of blood on the clock tower? And so I, it's, it's a real push pull of the people who really love it, want it to be even crazier and more complicated.

[01:55:25] That's not how survivor fans feel. Uh, but I think that's a little bit of how we've gotten into this place. And then, uh, I'm a little bit more like, but how do we keep it like a little more, more basic and, uh, approachable for people? Yeah. And you know what? I didn't do that with my, um, atheist comparison earlier. I was not catering to the, yeah. Trouble brewing. That's what we like. That's what the people want to see. Yeah. Keep it simple. Don't vote out your storyteller people. Don't vote out the storyteller. You need them. Okay.

[01:55:53] Um, of course, uh, I mentioned it a couple of times, uh, that the, the book is out. I've gotten so much positive feedback from people. Uh, just to mention a quick mention of the audio book is available as well. Uh, and a very affordably priced. I might add, uh, for people who, uh, the hardcover version of the book, uh, it's going to run you about $30, but for a measly $15, you can check out the audio book on audible of the tribe.

[01:56:20] And I have spoken read by me forward by Steven Fishback read by Steven Fishback. And one of the nice things about the audio book is I get to do as many impressions as I possibly could whenever I am quoting people that I do impressions of. You could hear that in the audio book and also our pre-order bonus. A lot of people have asked, but hold on. The book is out. Where's my pre-order bonus? We are going to hold off until June 1st to send out the digital bonus chapter, the

[01:56:49] ultimate rites of passage, all 751 survivor players. You can, uh, make sure that you are getting it when you go to robin's website.com slash pre-order perks. We want to, uh, include everything from the outcome of survivor 50 in the ultimate rites of passage. Uh, and you can still, uh, put in your request to receive it when you have ordered. Even the tribe and I have spoken. All right. Uh, Franny, uh, I think that people are going to like this podcast.

[01:57:18] This was a fun ride. Oh, fabulous. Fabulous, Rob. Thank you for having me. We went so many places. I feel like we had a bit of self-discovery conversation. That was great. These are the best kind. Yeah. I feel like we do this actually every time I'm on here. I feel like we have some sort of like personal realization. So I really appreciate that. Listen. And huge, huge congratulations on your book. Thank you. Thank you so much. I didn't know you read the audio book. Yes. That's so cool. Yes.

[01:57:46] Uh, imagine somebody else was trying to read the audio book and some person who was like a, a professional, like narrator was attempting to talk about the, uh, like, um, the, the new era and, you know, Rick Devins working in the fire token booth. They'd be like, what, what the hell is this? Yeah, it doesn't hit the same way. It doesn't hit the same way. Yeah. Uh, but I, I love these podcast conversations that certainly, uh, you know, weave in and

[01:58:13] out of like the nerdiness of survivor and, uh, things that people can hopefully take beyond the world of survivor. Uh, it's, you know, one of the most fun things about doing this for me. So thank you once again for being such a great scene partner, getting to do this for Annie. Oh, of course, Rob, anytime. Truly. All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Take care of it. Have a good one. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.