Rob Cesternino welcomes Survivor 44 alum Frannie Marin to discuss the Survivor 48 finale.[00:00:00] Hey Sandra, wir haben uns ja lange nicht mehr gesehen. Grüß dich Nadine! Mensch, du siehst ja toll aus. Ja danke, ich habe mein Plus fürs gesündere Ich entdeckt. Was? Komm, ich zeig's dir. Die Bewegungskurse der AOK Plus. Kostenfrei für AOK Plus Versicherte. Entdecke dein Plus fürs gesündere Ich und starte mit unserem Selfcheck. Ganz einfach online auf aok.de. Aus Liebe zur Gesundheit. AOK Plus.
[00:00:37] Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cesternino back with you for some post finale recap of Survivor 48 as we look back at the season that was with a great guest just two years ago. We saw her have a remarkable run in Survivor 44. Here she is, part of a not so secret duo. It's Frannie Marin. Frannie, how are you? Oh, I'm fabulous.
[00:01:06] It's a remarkable run. Wow, I've been living for that moment for you to say that. Remarkable. A remarkable run. Thank you. And Frannie, how are you? I'm doing incredibly well. Another great season of Survivor in the books. Excited to talk about it. And I'm excited to have a very hyped summer building up for 49 and then eventually 50. So I'm, you know, the heart is pounding. I'm very excited. Okay. So you have like a lot of Survivor excitement for what's to come here in these next few months.
[00:01:37] Yes. It's a hype girl summer. It's no hot girl summer. I'm just going to be, I'm speculating all summer. I'm, this is what I live for the anticipation of the next season. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about what's to come as we get into everything from Wednesday night. And I just had an email across my desk of big news. Survivor finale is CBS most watched Wednesday in a year.
[00:02:04] Oh, 24% week to week. Most watched Wednesday since May 22nd, 2024. Uh, the survivor 46 finale. Okay. Why did you get an email about that? I'm on the press list. Oh, okay. It's like, it's like, why are you telling me? Like I'm telling everybody. They're like, Rob, you got to get this out there. Nobody knows. Um, that's big.
[00:02:33] I mean, they were doing a lot of promotion. I feel for this season. Jeff really hyped it up. I saw that they had Joe and Eva on like some CBS morning show talking about their experience. So CBS morning show is a huge part of survivor right now, Franny. Oh yeah. I mean, I know I have to set my alarm like five hours earlier than I want to next week for the 50 cast reveal on the Nate Burleson and Gail King are big figures in the survivor world right now. Put them on the Mount Rushmore.
[00:03:03] So a big night for CBS and survivor as, uh, we crowned a new winner, Kyle, but Franny, what's new with you? Oh gosh. What is new with me? Um, I, uh, well, I've learned how to knit. Yes. Uh, very excited. I'm working, you know, cooking on something right now. What are you making? Um, I'm making a scarf for my best friend for his birthday. Um, I'm only at the scarf level.
[00:03:31] We haven't quite progressed to more advanced forms of clothing, but we'll get there eventually. Um, yeah, that's about all that's going on with me. I feel like I'm, I'm just, uh, trying to get, get hyped for the next eras of survivor, trying to figure out what's coming next in my life. Wow. And, uh, we're in a transition era. We're in a transition era. Of survivor. Because yeah, I guess I hadn't been thinking about this, but is it still going to be the new era after 50? I feel like it's going to, it's like, what is it? The newer era? The next era?
[00:04:01] The final era? Mm-hmm. The final era? I wonder if it could be the final era. I don't know. Endgame? I mean, the, the, the, oh, the endgame. I feel like the final era could last, you know, 20 seasons, but I, I, I feel like 50 is so momentous. Mm-hmm. Um, and they've made such a big deal about kind of earmarking this, uh, new era as its own unit, uh, that I feel like this, you know, this coming together of, it seems like from what I've seen online, a lot of different players from different parts of survivor.
[00:04:30] Um, I feel like it, it can't just be more of the same after 50. I feel like it's, it's going to be different. It's going to shake up a little bit and I'm excited to see what it looks like. Okay. Well, this season that we just had survivor 48 looking back at it, I feel like that it is a little bit of a standalone in the new era. And I think that we're, if anything, if you were going to complain about, uh, if you had to complain about one thing in the new era, if you had to, okay. Gun to your head. I think you might say.
[00:05:00] Please do it. Just complain. I'm begging you. I've, I've heard it might be a little samey same, uh, season in of like, we have a format and we're going to run it back over and over and over again. And this was maybe the season, even though the format generally was, you know, we ran it back. The outcome felt a little different. Yes. To me, this felt like the most old era style new era season.
[00:05:29] Um, and it's funny because I, I feel like I've seen a lot of, uh, feedback about this season online. Um, especially the last couple of episodes, I think there were slow moments or things kind of went as we expected them to go for the large part towards the end of the game. Um, but for years I've seen people saying, bring back old survivor, you know, what's this new era bananas. And then this is a very older, a season in my opinion. And then now people are like snooze button, you know? So I think that it's, it's different, but, um, I like that it brought a different energy
[00:05:58] to the table because it has felt a lot of those new era seasons have felt really similar in retrospect. Yeah. I have really been trying to, I don't ever want to come across as a hypocrite because I think that, you know, I do at, there was a big reaction from you, uh, when I said I might be a hypocrite. Yeah. Curious to hear the rest of the sentence. I, you know. Well, look, I am, uh, an advocate for, I like to see the big moves, but I do feel like that,
[00:06:28] uh, I have also, uh, at different times said like, Hey, maybe we can get some people in there. Maybe you don't need everybody to be a super, uh, strategy focused person. You could mix it up. And then in this season, we really kind of had a dominant alliance, which was really, uh, a group that was a little bit more challenge first than say strategy focused.
[00:06:55] And it was a season about relationships. And I feel like that, like all on paper, that doesn't sound so bad, but I feel like in practice in the real time, I did feel like, especially after a very chaotic pre-merge, I did feel like that it was a little sleepy in the post-merge. And I guess that is, is this a matter of, do we need to manage our expectations or do you
[00:07:22] feel like that maybe that the, cause Jeff said this was a magnificent season that he loved, he loved this season. If, but was it, did you have to be there? Was, was that it? Yeah. So here's my, uh, this is the, the real, uh, thesis statement is Jeff should just shut his mouth, let people form their own opinions. Cause I think, um, he kind of did this. I remember with 44, he really hyped up our season. And then I think 44 was a good season.
[00:07:51] I think a lot of folks liked it, but there were choices made in the editing that I think gave the fans sort of a similar reaction. We know exactly what's going to happen. This is inevitable. Um, I think that's sort of what happened here to a degree. So, um, I think that Jeff needs to do a slightly better job in terms of expectation setting. But one thing that was really interesting about this season, and I really noticed this last night, uh, during the reunion, when they played a clip of Mary's shot in the dark hitting, it reminded me of the pre-merge phase.
[00:08:21] And that felt like a completely different season than what we saw in the post-merge to me. And that is not the fault of Jeff or editing or production. It's, it's the fault of circumstance that none of those people that were such big characters at the beginning quite made it to the end. Like it was kind of only Mary and even she didn't get like that, that far. Um, so I think that the show did a good job, um, telling the interesting story that was there at the beginning.
[00:08:49] I think they could have leaned away from those really interesting dynamics on the original Vula tribe, knowing that none of them were going to be in the end, but I'm glad they gave that to us. And the result is that the season feels a little fragmented, but I don't think that that should discount how fabulous the beginning of the season was. And there are really a lot of really wonderful moments after the merge as well.
[00:09:14] Do you think that the issue is that we kind of get teased with the idea that a move is going to happen and maybe that survivor could potentially like try to tell some different stories other than like, if the big move is not happening, why get our expectations up? Like I'm going to tell my kids we're going to the arcade, but then turns out blindside that we don't, we're not going and everybody's disappointed where I wonder if there's like,
[00:09:43] if they could sort of like explore a little bit more where not every single vote needs to necessarily be a surprise to the audience is, I mean, and I, again, at the risk of being a hypocrite, uh, I certainly didn't, I was not compelled when we knew that who meant Mitch was going to go home at the final five. But if it was like more about like, okay, here's what we're doing to throw star off the scent. And it was a little bit more of like, from the perspective of the players who are managing
[00:10:13] this thing, here's what they're doing to keep the people that are on the bottom off the scent. And we're seeing that a little bit more. Yeah. I think that would be really interesting. This also ties into something I want to talk about, which is like Joe's final tribal performance and maybe why he lost. I think something really compelling about this season was the tone of loyalty, trust, and strength that I think Joe had a huge part in setting.
[00:10:43] And it really felt like he was able to cast this like mesmerizing spell over everyone else on the season to kind of like dampen the strategic energy that I think a lot of them came in wanting to bring. Like, I think about somebody like Shaheen, who, um, I expected to be a really wily player and to make a lot of big moves. He didn't end up doing that because he was working with Joe the whole time. And so, like you said, you know, they're, they're teasing all of these potential flips that they know aren't going to happen.
[00:11:11] I think it would have been really interesting to lean into the story of how is Joe able to keep this spell over everyone because he really does. Like they are all obsessed with him. They, um, they don't want to go against him. And this, this, you know, precedent that has been said of like telling the truth and honor and stuff, that's maybe a more interesting story that doesn't feel as disappointing. And I think the challenge there though, is I think that Joe has to be like giving them that story.
[00:11:38] Whereas I, I don't think that he is necessarily like a Boston Rob. Like I just, I get the sense that Joe is not a manipulative guy. Uh, I think that he is like, just like he is just a, you know, strong silent type, uh, somebody who is like really a genuine person. Whereas, you know, Boston Rob was sort of like feeding people misinformation, making them feel like that they were safe. I don't think that that's what Joe was doing.
[00:12:05] And so I think that, yeah, that's an interesting story, but I don't think that that's a story that Joe was giving. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and again, like I don't think he re yeah. I don't think he realizes that that's what's happening, but I feel like it was like they were all, um, uh, really swept up in his like charisma. But, um, I, I was hoping that he would tell a story like that at final tribal council and he just like really didn't. I think if he had, it would have been more compelling. Um, but yeah, maybe they just, yeah, they did not have somebody telling that story. So they can't tell it.
[00:12:33] So the other thing that I got, and I spoke with all five of the people from the finale is that it really does feel like that. Uh, I think I talked about this with Camilla of that. Did a lot of people just want to go to the end with Joe and Eva that the jury was really like signaling. We are not crazy about what Joe and Eve are doing. And maybe that was sort of like led by, you know, Chrissy goes to the jury pretty early.
[00:13:02] And so the jury was kind of not necessarily bitter jury, but, uh, sort of like the Joe or Eva would say something in the jury would respond negatively. And there were a bunch of people picking up on that. And so there was kind of like a race between David and Kyle and Shaheen, like, and Camilla and all these people wanted me. I think that might've been stars plan at one point. Everybody wanted to go to sit in the final three with Joe and Eva.
[00:13:32] Yeah, that's crazy. It's so interesting. And, and I think that, um, it's a really good jury read from the people who are out there. And given that that's the state of the game, that you can kind of tell that the jury is upset with Joe and Eva. They don't like what's happening. It's it's, uh, you don't need to take them out. It's almost more impressive to say, I read the room. I understood that they weren't going to win. And I'm going to, you know, hold their hand to the end and then still beat them. Um, and so I, I really actually liked that Kyle did that.
[00:14:02] I think it was a big shock. His, his choice for who to send to fire. Um, but it's for what this season is. I think it was very impressive. Um, and I think it earned him a lot of, a lot of points with the jury. Did Joe remind you of Danny from your season in any way? Oh, are they similar? Um, yeah, I think that, I think that Joe is, um, a little more interpersonal than Danny.
[00:14:32] Danny's, Danny's kind of like, uh, I'm going to do what I want. Like, I'm going to go off and do my own thing kind of guy. Um, both, you know, great firefighters, very charismatic, but I think Joe's a little bit more of a people person. Um, but you know, they, uh, they both had perceptions of themselves in the game that maybe like, weren't quite aligned with what everyone else thought similarity. These firefighters, they do really well. I was thinking of, I feel like Joe actually really reminds me of Mike Turner, um, who,
[00:15:00] you know, has this perception of the game that he is playing. The jury does not quite have that same perception. And then he, uh, you know, I was actually really afraid that Joe was going to fall into like the Mike Turner trap at final tribal council and say like, I played this honorable game. I didn't lie. And they were all going to point at him and say, yes, you did. Um, he didn't quite fall into that trap. And I feel like those two are quite similar in my eyes. Yeah. Okay.
[00:15:24] I know you watch this with a group of survivors and reality TV alums. Um, what was the reaction in the room from this finale? Any, any big moments that really stood out? Yeah. Um, yeah. It's a really fun group to watch with. Uh, a group that listeners of the podcast might have an opportunity to watch with at some point. Maybe we'll talk about that at some point in this episode. Um, yeah, we had a couple of big reactions.
[00:15:53] Um, I would say the two biggest were when Kyle was positing that he might go into fire. Like we all stood up and started screaming at the television saying like, you don't need to do that. My guy, like just, you know, just sit there and be happy with what you've done. Um, so yeah, I was very glad that he did not make that decision. I think he did not need to. And, um, I, I think he, he read, uh, his game and his strengths very well. I thought toward the end.
[00:16:20] Um, the other thing was the moment where it seemed like Eva's fire was going to die out without hitting the, the string. And then Camilla was going to have a comeback. Um, that got a big reaction to it then didn't really happen. Okay. Both of these moments were sort of blue balls. Like we got very excited and then the thing didn't actually end up happening. So, all right. Well, let me go back to, uh, the Kyle fire thing. I asked him about that in my exit interview with him this morning. And I said like, how close were you to putting yourself into the fire?
[00:16:50] He said 90%. Oh, that's way higher than I would have thought. Yeah. That's crazy. He was ready to do it. Interesting. Now against, and he would have gone against Camilla, I suppose. Yes. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that would, I just feel like it wasn't necessary. Heidi Ligaris Greenblatt. HLG. Yeah. Nobody, they have, they didn't certainly didn't beat her record.
[00:17:19] He wouldn't quite hold an HLG. I don't know what her, I don't know what his, uh, his fire making skills are like. Yeah. But, um, you know, can I ask a question? So let me just, uh, circle back to that. And I'm trying to think if we've seen it in the last couple of years, but you know, it was such a big deal of Chris Underwood put himself into the fire. And then there was all these other people of like Xander. How could you not have put yourself into the fire? And all these, it used to be like, you would like wag your finger at people. Like how could you not put yourself into the fire? And here comes Heidi.
[00:17:48] And then she wins the final four immunity. She puts herself in the fire and ends up getting one vote. Did that kill that? I'm trying to think if, if nobody else is going to do that ever again, just get rid of the final four fire making. Nobody's doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Underwood really broke that open and, and Heidi put it right back together. Yeah. Uh, cause what D I think D won the final four D didn't do it. Uh, that I think that, uh, Ben won. He didn't, he didn't do it in 47.
[00:18:17] And then in 47, Rachel won and she didn't do the fire. Uh, and now here's Kyle. So I just feel like the people are like, like, Hey, you didn't vote for Heidi. Why am I going to put myself in the fire? Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, it is like such a big risk. I think we have seen some people go into fire pretty confident and lose. So it's very, very scary. And it's an opportunity to get in your own head. But I think that a lot of these people, I mean, I don't know, maybe Ben is somebody who should have like gone into fire if he felt confident about it.
[00:18:45] But some of these people who have won, like they feel pretty solid about their games and they feel like really ready to make some reveal at final tribal council. It's going to sway the jury. Like, I think that's how Kyle felt with his, you know, secrets that he was ready to unveil. And, uh, you don't want to take that risk at that point. You want to get the opportunity to unveil your secret. I think it's really interesting to think about how final tribal would have gone if Camilla had won that fire making challenge, because we see the entire jury during the reunion say, Oh, you know, I led by star.
[00:19:15] Star was like, Camilla would have gotten every vote. She would have been the winner of this season. Um, I don't know if star speaks for everyone there. Um, but I'd be really curious to see how that shakes out. The survivor cast, I feel like, and you know, especially here in the new era, everybody is like pretty generous with the praise and the accolades for the other players. Yeah. Everybody's a threat. Everybody would win if they got to the end. Everybody had a great shot.
[00:19:43] They would have got all the votes, but only in reality, like there's a pecking order of like, you know, one person would do the best versus everybody else. So, okay. Let's just, I guess let's talk that through. Okay. This scenario that you outline where Camilla ends up beating Eva, right? Not Kyle. Yeah. Okay. And now it's Joe, Kyle and Camilla at the final tribal council. And I think it's a real dogfight for, uh, these votes.
[00:20:10] I mean, you have Chrissy who vote, who did vote for Kyle. Yep. She voted for Kyle. I think she certainly would have been a Camilla vote. I mean, I think she felt a big like kinship with Camilla that they were both on the bottom and weren't winning things. Okay. And then Cedric voted for Joe. I would assume that he votes for Joe again. Old men, dads. Yeah. Did it for the dads. Did it for the dads. Yeah. That's big. That's huge. Yeah. Okay.
[00:20:37] Then after Cedric, was it, was it David next? Yeah. David next. Okay. And then David voted for Kyle. Let's assume David votes for Kyle again. I think that's a safe. Okay. I think so. Okay. Uh, then after, uh, David. Okay. Star. Okay. Star. I think it's Camilla. Yeah. I think she'd go for Camilla. Okay. And then we had Mary. Mary.
[00:21:06] I feel Mary's got to go Camilla too. Okay. Yeah. They were. Those were the two Eva votes. Okay. Uh, then after Mary was Shaheen. Shaheen. I think Shaheen is a big toss up for me. I think Shaheen is going to be really, it's going to be dependent on who vocalizes their situation better at final travel. And honestly, I think Camilla would maybe be able to do that better. Cause I think she's a little more, she's willing to be pointed and she's willing to get in there in the final travel.
[00:21:35] She's the one who, you know, really served up Kyle's opportunity. Let's leave that as a toss up for now. And let's just see if we need it. Okay. Uh, then after Shaheen, then it would be Mitch. Yeah. Mitch might, might've been Camilla too. I feel like. I don't know. Maybe. Yes. He was close with, with Camilla, but he's also close with Kyle. I think that, you know, Mitch, a little bit of a guy's guy, Mitch. Yeah.
[00:22:02] He wanted an all men final, final three. So that's a toss up. And then I guess then the final jury is Eva who would vote for Joe. So yeah, we have two votes. That's for Kyle. Um, I'm sorry. We have, right now we have one solid vote for Kyle, which is David. We have three votes, solid votes for Camilla and two toss ups. So I think even if we split the toss ups, then I think that's four Camilla votes. Yeah. Which is wild. It's very interesting.
[00:22:30] I think that, um, yeah. Yeah. And also you have to think to also where not only has she won the final five immunity challenge, now she's just made fire in front of the jury. And, and, and so she does have that kind of Gabler heat. Yeah. Yeah. She's got the Gabler momentum. Yeah. I think that that might put her over the edge because like she said, her whole game is really tied with Kyle. That's the one thing that she like really does on her own.
[00:22:58] And then also like winning the final five, final five immunity. Um, that was huge too. So I don't know. Yeah. We could have been this close to a Camilla win. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. So, um, do you feel like that she made a mistake by saying to Kyle of, you know, don't, uh, or put me in the fire if you win immunity or vice versa? Yeah. I think she was trying to be respectful. I think maybe we hold that thought for another three to four hours until after the challenge.
[00:23:26] Like maybe Camilla just wait and see if you win it and then you can sort of tell him that afterwards. I, I don't know that it would have swayed anything. Cause I actually, I do buy her logic, which is that Kyle also can read the room also knows that we might be splitting votes and would put Camilla into fire. But like, I don't know, she could have really like appealed to their relationship. Um, but then, but then if, if, you know, if she doesn't say that to Kyle, Kyle decides he wants to bring Camilla.
[00:23:55] Now she doesn't have that fire win. Now the perception really is like they worked together and then Kyle brought her to the end. So maybe she, she doesn't have that like extra oomph to win. It's been, it's like really thin margins. I think. As someone who's attended a new era, final tribal council that what's the, the whole scene like, because, uh, I haven't really had no idea from what they edit down on television.
[00:24:22] It's like 10, 15 minutes, but you know, yeah, I feel like I hear different things. Yeah. Well, there's so many more knock, knock jokes than you usually see. We tell those all the time. I don't know why they never get shown. Um, yeah. Final tribal council is a slog, honestly, for everyone involved. Cause the final three is exhausted. Um, the jury really just wants to go back to Ponderosa and party. I think usually. Yeah. And, um, I don't know the question format.
[00:24:50] Like I like, um, the, the newer format of final tribal council where the jury can ask multiple questions as opposed to just one person. Yeah. Because I think it, it does allow people to like dig in on things as they come up, but a lot of the answers like sort of start to feel the same, um, over the course of the like two hour final tribal. So it's edited down to 10 minutes for a reason. Like a lot of it is not, not super useful, but if there's anything I learned from season
[00:25:19] 44, it's that the, uh, story of final tribal is really, really shaped by the editors. Like, I think that a lot of the discussions that happened at the 44 final tribal were not shown in what was on TV. And so it gives the audience like sort of a different perception of who the front runner is, who has a chance and who doesn't. So I feel like if anything, I'm guessing that Kyle spoke even more to his relationship with Camilla than we saw. We only get a slice of it because they want it to appear closer.
[00:25:48] Um, but it sort of seems like a shoe in for him at that point. Speaking of getting a slice of it. I'd love to then hear about the transition to the survivor after show where we go right from, and we have this live transition. It's been that way all through the new era. Can you talk about what that's like to be a participant there and like, uh, how they shift things over? Like how much of a turnaround is there from they count the votes to you're in the survivor after show?
[00:26:18] Oh yeah. It's like three minutes. I mean, it really is a live transition. It's very exciting. Um, it's funny because when you're a juror at that point, especially if you got voted out a little ways ago, you like, don't remember how to do tribal council. So Jeff sort of starts asking you questions and you're like, Oh God, I'm back on TV. I have to be entertaining again. Um, yeah, I don't know. The, the, the reunion show is always interesting because the formatting of the questions and like Jeff has these beats.
[00:26:44] It just feels so much more manufactured than like a typical tribal council. Um, I really, uh, it killed me during this reunion when they went to the like senior superlatives. Jeff was like, okay, who's most likely to, you know, be president? Like he's like, I feel like he was sort of scraping for questions a little bit toward the end there. Um, but yeah, it's fun. I feel really bad for the final three. I mean, we saw it with Kyle. He just won. He should be so excited and he can barely answer Jeff's question because he's tired and overwhelmed.
[00:27:15] Can you come back to me? Yeah. He's like, no, I swear I'm excited. Kyle, this is it. This is the show. Yeah. You got like one more second, dude. Um, yeah, I mean, it's fun. The thing that I like about the after show, this is big in 44, but, um, it's sort of fun when Jeff is able to do little reveals about earlier in the season. Like when he says that Thomas got voted out with a extra vote or a steal a vote or something.
[00:27:43] And, you know, Kyle Camilla were like, that's crazy. I didn't know that he did that. Um, that's a little bit fun, but I, I don't know. I wish that everybody was there. I feel like it'd be more fun if the pre-jury got to be there too, especially on a season like this where they were so engaging and like made up so much of the fun moments on the season. Yeah. Did you vote for the live reunion to come back for Survivor 50? Oh, certainly. Yeah. Oh, who voted no for that? Well, okay. Did you vote for no idols?
[00:28:14] I did not vote for no idols. I did not. Yeah. I voted for idols. I don't think anybody voted for no idols either. Maybe one person. I think there are some annoying Twitter fans that did vote for no idols. Idols ruin the game. But, but really, truly, if you watched a game with no idols, I think it would be a little, it'd stink. Um, do you think? I don't know. Some of the votes were interesting. In Survivor 50, there's going to be like a very pregnant pause where Jeff, like the final three gets to the end. Okay.
[00:28:43] And the people are sitting there. Jeff goes to get the urn and like either did it, does he come back and say, all right, because they don't know. They don't know what the fans voted. He's like, maybe I'm going to like, just get it. He's going to pick it up. He's going to go. Oh, should I, oh, should I take it? No, no, no. Open the lid. Like, ah, ah, should we do it now? Or should we do it like a year from now? What do you think? Yeah. He's going to make a meal out of that for sure. Yeah.
[00:29:12] He's going to have popcorn. He's going to have everything. I'm, I'm actually really curious to see how they roll out some of this stuff for season 50. Like, um, if I was on season 50 and, and again, I, nobody voted for no idols or a few people. But if I found out after the fact that there were no idols, the whole fork in time. And I looked for like hours and hours. I'd be pissed. I think that people are going to know pretty soon that there are idols. Like, I think that you find one person's going to find like a clue on day two. It's like, okay, I guess there's idols. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:41] I'm trying to think about what some of the other ones were. They had final four fire making as a question. I really think that the final four fire making did, uh, loom large over survivor 48, because I do feel like that it allowed the four person Alliance to really not have to let anybody question where they stood in the four person Alliance. Yeah. Well, that's honestly, um, that lead up to building the final four is the part of Kyle's game
[00:30:11] that I feel like is the most sketchy. Like overall, I actually think he was a very strong winner. I thought he did super, super well, but, um, it really felt like he was, uh, relying on winning that final four challenge because if Camilla wins, he's going to fire. If Joe wins, he's going to fire. If Eva wins, he's going to fire. So, um, I think it just feels a little tenuous to stake that last opportunity on yourself winning the challenge. Obviously it worked out for him, but, um, yeah, I don't know.
[00:30:39] I was, I was shocked by how like almost unprepared he was for that moment. Yeah. I mean, how do you think it plays out if they don't vote out Shaheen at the, uh, vote last time? Let's say that. Okay. Let's just talk this through. Okay. Final six. They don't vote out Shaheen and Mitch goes home at six. Then Camilla, uh, Camilla wins immunity. Now, uh, who does Kyle go home at five?
[00:31:04] I don't think that Kyle is like perceived as enough of a threat yet because, because one thing that we know for sure is, I mean, Joe and Eva seemed shocked by the relationship reveal between Kyle and Camilla, uh, at final travel council. And so I think if, if you are Joe and Eva and you're looking around at the final five, you're like, why do I get out Kyle? What has he done that I haven't done? But somebody has to go. Do they vote out Shaheen at five? Yeah.
[00:31:33] Maybe Kyle Camilla do the exact same shenanigans at five or, I mean, well, I don't know if it would have happened, but if Shaheen is there, I think there's a bigger chance that at five Joe and Eva are fed a story that one of them is in trouble to guide where the idol is played. And then the other one maybe is voted out. I think that like, uh, yeah, that's the biggest opportunity for either Joe or Eva getting voted out. I think was keeping Shaheen.
[00:32:01] Maybe the most interesting thing that came out of my interviews today, Franny was that in talking with Eva, Eva was, uh, explaining a lot about her game. According to Eva, Eva was the brains of the operation with her and Joe that she wanted people to think Joe was calling the shots. Eva was the one who was, uh, the strategic partner in that duo.
[00:32:26] And Eva wanted, did not want to sit with Shaheen at the end of the game. Eva did not want Shaheen in the final three. And that they, what Eva said was that they did not let her finish her point at the final tribal council when Camilla jumped into it. Hey, I'd like to get Kyle's opinion on this. And what Eva was saying was that it did not matter to her that what, uh, Shaheen, if Shaheen
[00:32:54] had the idol or was targeting her, it was going to be her move. She was going to manipulate Joe to vote out his other number one to take out Shaheen because she did not want to sit with him. So I, I buy that from Eva's perspective, like that's the logic, but the, the big, you know, neon lights question is would Eva have done that manipulative act if Kyle and Camilla
[00:33:21] had not come up with their whole charade and then went to them with this like fake idol thing? Like, I don't know if Eva is going to craft from nothing enough of a lie about Shaheen to manipulate Joe and voting him out. And so I think that like, uh, I think it was smart of her to, when she hears this information, think to herself, okay, I can use this to my advantage. And she probably did sway, uh, Joe to some extent, but I think it's like, it's tough for Eva because the origin of that whole thing is Kyle and Camilla.
[00:33:49] Like they really planted the seed. Um, yeah, I thought, I, I, I wish that we had heard some more of what made Eva think that she was the brains of the operation. I, I believe her that she thought that, but it was kind of funny. Like she, she gives her like big reveal that she was a, she's a PhD student, uh, which is very cool. But then like, I hear she didn't really have evidence of like, so I did this really smart thing. You know, she's like, I wanted you all to think I was a dumb jock, but I'm actually a PhD student.
[00:34:19] But then everything she did aligned with her being a dumb jock. I feel, um, so I wanted to, you know, for her sake and for our sake, I wanted to hear a little bit more about how she thought she was the brains of the operation. Isn't it too early for these people to be revealing these things? Like, why are they keeping it a secret? And then like, isn't the idea to like, tell them after the final trial. I know you want to have reveals like on the, at the final trial of council, but I think that isn't part of the idea of like, if you are like a successful professional, you reveal
[00:34:46] it after the vote so that they don't say, Oh, this person doesn't need the money. Yeah. Kyle's like, I'm not an underpaid teacher. I'm actually a well-paid lawyer. They're like, Oh, I don't know if I should vote for you. Um, yeah, I, I love the moment where, uh, I mean, they really jumped the gun with the reveal by telling Joe at camp about their jobs. And in that moment, I really wanted Joe to be like, I'm not actually a fire chief.
[00:35:13] Like I'm a, you know, I'm a line dancer on the side. Like I just wanted to come up with something. Wow. That's the first thing that came to mind. You know, I just, I wanted him to come up with something crazy, but he, he just stuck with fire. Franny, did you have any secrets that you hid from the other cast members? Yeah. And they seem so stupid in retrospect. Everyone lies about their job in some capacity. I remember Matt, like to you, they feel like big lies, but to everyone else, it's like, who gives a shit?
[00:35:42] Um, Matt lied and told everyone that he was a software engineer at a small company. And then like a couple of days into the show, he was like, I feel so connected with you. I'm going to tell you, I work at Google. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. And so my lie that I told was, I was like, I work at a mindfulness center, which is true. And I implied that I like taught mindfulness, but I actually do research on mindfulness.
[00:36:12] But I was like, people will think I'm smart if I say I do research. And then I revealed everyone. I actually do research at the mindfulness center. It's like not a reveal at all. Nobody came with crap. Um, yeah, it's, it's all dumb. You just feel like you'll want to have something to reveal. So you're good. You're scrabbling for things that are like worth hiding. And none of these things are actually, what about like next level? Okay. What if people like come in with like a fake reveal?
[00:36:38] Like they come in with the first, first level of like, okay, they're, they're, they're actually a lawyer, but then they come in and tell people they're a teacher and then they reveal actually like, uh, I'm not a teacher. Uh, I am. A line dancer. A line dancer. And they're like, Oh, okay. Like, okay. Thank you for coming clean to us. And you feel good that they've like shared a secret with you.
[00:37:08] Yeah. Final travel. I danced through all the competition. Um, yeah, I feel like that was sort of what Liz Wilcox was shaping up to do. You know, she comes in and then she's like, reveal I'm a millionaire. And she was setting herself up for the reveal that she wasn't a millionaire. Uh, it's a little, I feel like at that point, maybe we focus on the game. We just try to try to vote people out and not worry about all this other stuff. Yeah. But okay.
[00:37:33] Now survivor 48, I know you're higher than most on the season. Yeah. You've, you've enjoyed it. Uh, do you want to, uh, uh, stop down and talk a little bit more about your love of survivor 48? Yeah. Yeah. Rob, you're like, make it make sense. Why do you love this season? Yeah. Well, I think that the season to me, I think this season is a Rorschach test of what do you love about survivor?
[00:38:01] And I think that for people who are a little bit more, okay, that survivor is this really cool game that people go and play. I think that the season was disappointing. If that's the reason that you watch the show, if you are there to sort of like, okay, go on this journey and like explore the human condition that I think that this season and, and really like, uh, let yourself like come to know these characters, which sounds like
[00:38:31] on paper, like a very rich experience, then this is a great season for you. Yeah. Yeah. So this is interesting. I think I have gone through a, uh, bit of a, you know, change in this, in my life. I used to be very much, I'm here for the strategy. That's what excites me about survivor. That was my focus. Um, and so, you know, a season like 47 would have really appealed to me tons of like moving parts and really good strategy.
[00:38:57] And I still like that to be, to be very, very clear, but I feel like after I played, I had this, uh, you know, wash of understanding that there's so much more happening than what we see on screen. Um, a lot of the strategy that feels so special is really a like accumulation of circumstances and like random opportunities that people just capitalize on. Well, um, you're not actually a genius. Like you just use the opportunities that were handed to you.
[00:39:24] Um, and so in my like post playing survivor era, I like the funny stuff. That's what I find fun about survivor. Like I filled out the, uh, you know, 25 best moments of survivor, uh, survey for RHAP, go fill it out. And, uh, all of the moments that I thought of were like, you know, when Debbie gets really mad at Brad Culpepper and she does pushups like that was so good. And, uh, I feel like that's just what appeals to me now is like, this is a silly goofy show.
[00:39:54] And, um, I love the moments that can be really strategic, but I also love when the players are having fun and we, as the audience can have fun watching them be weird. Uh, and this season had a lot of that. I feel like, uh, the, the pre-merge, which was much more strategically heavy, also had these wacky moments with say, and Mary so funny and so weird. And then like post merge Shaheen with all the music and star is rapping and fried chicken and waffles.
[00:40:23] Like it, it was, um, a lot of it felt like lighthearted in that way. And it appealed to me. I thought it was very fun. Yeah. I think there's a balance between everything. And I think that, you know, I think we'd like to see those relationships. And I don't think that there are times where, uh, you know, we have a season that is, uh, a more strategy focused season that does not have, you know, an exploration of some of these deep relationships. So I think that you can have both.
[00:40:50] And I think you can also have seasons that are, you know, get to strategy heavy also where we're very much advantage focus and it's not even about the relationships. But I think that like really where survivor it's at its best is when you have this like push pull between managing these relationships and then also everybody's strategic best interests. Whereas I feel like that the strategic best interests of the players, I felt like was
[00:41:16] not always, uh, super well explained, even in a 90 minute episode where it was just like one group. And we always, I think, uh, saw what Kyle was thinking. I think that he might be the one character where we really got a good sense of like what Kyle was trying to do and managing between Camilla and managing the other side. But as far as like, you know, the Joe and Eva side, it was just a lot of like, Hey, well we got our group, this is it.
[00:41:43] And then, uh, the people on the bottom were just sort of just scrambling wildly in all different directions without any sense of like a cohesive plan coming together for how they were going to attack the group that had frozen them out. Yeah. Well, I mean, we, we, they can't show us the strategic best interests of the people on the bottom because those people were not acting in their strategic best interests. Like there's nothing, there's nothing to show.
[00:42:11] I do think that there were like editing choices that made this season hard, especially the past like string of maybe four episodes. Um, what really, uh, shocked me was maybe one or two episodes ago. Um, we saw almost nothing from Mitch. Like I think the period between the immunity challenge and tribal council, I think this is when Shaheen went home. We see absolutely nothing about Mitch's opinion, but in that 90 minute episode, we got like a fishing montage. We got a really long reward.
[00:42:41] And so it's like, there is space. Um, but it was just like not given to anybody except for the dominant alliance. And I think that's where, that's where you lose people. Cause you always want to like have hope that, that an underdog will come forward. But if you don't show that underdog, then the audience, we're not dumb. We know that it's not actually going to happen. Like they're not actually going to prevail. Um, yeah, it was an interesting one. There were, I think that, um, Jeff is here for the relationships.
[00:43:10] I think that's, that's what really enamors him about survivor. He says it a lot during tribal council. He loves the psychology of it, like how people work together and how they bond. And, um, this season had that more than a lot of others, like these hyper intense connections that happened so quickly. And so I see why Jeff was really taken with the season. Um, but I, I can understand why other folks weren't as taken with that.
[00:43:38] The one thing that I think is interesting about, um, Kyle and Camilla and their relationship, I think like, you know, their relationship is one of the best parts of the season. It's like a really exciting through line. What's cool about it is I feel like we got to see actually their entire, the entire scope of their relationship because they only talk in these three, four minute chunks of time. Like we saw all those chunks. We saw everything from start to finish. And I think it's like really satisfying to have explored that whole relationship.
[00:44:06] Whereas like, you know, even Joe, we see a million conversations of them checking in, saying the same thing we're on top, whatever. But each individual moment where Kyle and Camilla come together is so potent because they're so small and there's so much information exchange, uh, that I thought that that was really fun to explore. I'm glad we got so much of them on the season. One of the things that was mentioned quite a bit with Kyle and Camilla was just the sheer
[00:44:34] lack of time they spent talking to each other. They had such a shorthand that they would go, Kyle would run off, find Camilla in the jungle. They would talk for 10 seconds and then they would go back to what they were doing. Okay. Do you think that that might be hyperbole? Are you buying that? I mean, it's certainly not 10 seconds, but I think they're being pretty honest because I can't imagine that they talked any more than that.
[00:45:02] Uh, because Joe and Eva seemed to not know about their secret relationship. It is hard to get to the final four of Survivor and have two people not know that the other two people have a secret relationship. Uh, like that really flabbergasted me. So I think we're kind of like coming and going really quickly, uh, which is very impressive. It's very good. Yeah. Do you think that we will see more of that on Survivor? Will there be a, cause you have these two duos and I'm interested to hear how you think
[00:45:31] that they might shape the future of the game. Do you think that the, uh, there, will there be more Kyle and Camilla's or Joe and Eva's moving forward? Yeah. I think that there will be many more Kyle and Camilla's obviously it was, it was, uh, shown to be a success. So people want to give that a try. Okay. But, um, I think that in Survivor, like you meet somebody you connect with, you want to spend a lot of time with them because they make you feel secure. You want to strategize a lot with them.
[00:45:57] And it feels like you can't have that trust or have that bond without the time spent together. And I think Kyle and Camilla really proved that you can, you can just make it happen, um, based on very little information to, to great success. So, um, I'm hopeful that people will do more Kyle and Camilla relationships. I think it's really fun. I think that Joe and Eva, um, were the exception that proves the rule about having a really obvious duo.
[00:46:26] Um, almost any other obvious duo is broken up every time this happened with Matt and I, you know, it's, it's, um, it is, again, I said this at the beginning of the episode, it's, it's a testament to Joe and Eva's like tone setting and their power over the social, uh, contract of the entire season that they were not targeted the entire time. But I don't think that that works on like any other season.
[00:46:54] It was the perfect combination of these people that allowed that to work. Do you think that the Kyle and Camilla relationship could be weaponized by other players of if I'm, uh, if I'm out there and I go, I tell somebody, Hey, guess what? Uh, uh, Franny and jam jam secret relationship. There's secret duo. We got to take one out.
[00:47:21] And what are jam, Jim and I going to say, we only talked for 10 seconds and they'll say that's more than enough. Um, I think so. I mean, I think it'll, it'll prompt people to like, look a little more closely, be a little more discerning, especially like, you know, when something like the, the boat where, where Thomas goes out, you know, I'm, I'm surprised that Joe and Shaheen came away from that. Not understanding that Kyle and Camilla were working together.
[00:47:46] It's like, Hmm, maybe if two people work together to share advantages and, uh, you know, get out of a tough spot, perhaps their communication is better than I thought. Like maybe they are working together. Um, yeah, I'm really curious to see how that shakes out in 49 overall. Very curious to see what the tone of season 49 is, because I think that the specter of season 50 will loom very large over that.
[00:48:11] So that we got the survivor 49 promo on the episode last night and 49 coming this fall. I have like a, we have in our kitchen. Okay. We have like a, like a family calendar. Okay. On, and so it's on a, and we have like a fire stick, like on a TV and it's just basically our family calendar and we get the headlines from like EW.
[00:48:38] So we get a lot of like Dalton Ross's survivor headlines. All this to say, I, there was a headline this morning of Jeff Probst describes season 49 as quirky and sweltering. Oh, Oh, I don't know if I like those adjectives. What do you think? Survivor 49 weird and sweaty is what Jeff said. Yeah. That's odd. That's odd. I mean, sweltering.
[00:49:08] Did you read the art? Is he sweltering literally? Was it very hot or sweltering in terms of like, there's fire building. Yeah. I mean, we watched the promo. I don't know. I mean that with the utmost respect, but I was, I wasn't blown away. I would say. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. There's an ad over the headline.
[00:49:31] Uh, so unfortunately that, uh, that Jeff Probst, uh, calls it, uh, quirky and sweltering. Okay. Interesting. I mean, Jeff has maybe learned from what happened with 48. He's not going to go out there and say 49 is the best season. Yes. He's got to, he's got to undercut it. He says, uh, to Dalton Ross, every season of survivor is unique. That's definitely the case for survivor 49.
[00:49:57] This is a very likable and quirky group of players that are going to encounter a Fijian summer. So sweltering, it feels like the jungle is breathing on you. Oh, um, okay. Did you ever feel like the jungle was breathing on you? Yeah. I didn't get that. Um, thankfully I don't know if I want the jungle to breathe on me per se. Okay. Um, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I'm excited.
[00:50:27] I like a quirky group of people. That's a good. I like that. It sounds fine. Yeah. Yeah. Quirky sounds fun. I don't know about sweltering. Um, seems like it's a literal heat issue. Maybe we'll have a, uh, you know, what is a beast mode cowboy style heat stroke exit? I hope not. Yeah. Yeah. But we had enough of those for a lifetime. Yeah. So that's what's, uh, happening in survivor 49. Now, Franny also this week that we got some news earlier in the week. Okay. Yeah.
[00:50:56] That, and this was a little like a cloak and dagger of that. There was some secret messages that survivor was trying to send to the fans. People said that maybe this is like a Taylor Swift type strategy to release secret clues. And we got a bunch of clues on Monday night and people pieced it together that it said survivor 50 cast Wednesday.
[00:51:24] And everybody lost their mind. What, what do you mean? They're going to find out Wednesday. Wednesday is when everybody's going to find out who's on. Oh, and then there was one more slide, which did change everything, which said may 28th. The rise and fall of that. I was so proud to be a part of that experience.
[00:51:48] Um, the, the funniest thing to me about that whole situation was I can't fathom that the survivor media team foresaw the fans, like putting everything together, thinking it was going to be this Wednesday. And then they have this review. It's actually next Wednesday. I think that the survivor team actually thought like, nobody's going to put these clues together until like, I think that they didn't realize we were going to get it.
[00:52:17] Um, and so it just makes it all the funnier that they were like, no, no, there's one more piece of the puzzle. It's wrong. And the difference between, I wouldn't call myself a Swifty. I'm like not a big Taylor Swift person, but I do really, really like Easter eggs. Big on Easter eggs. And so I get some Swifty content because I like the, I like the analysis of, of all that stuff.
[00:52:40] And Taylor Swift knows her fans and she knows that they're freaks and that she can put the smallest little clue and they will find it. I feel like survivor needed to recognize that we're freaks. Like they could have been a little more subtle with the clues. Like it was Wednesday, like all caps. Um, and I wish it was like a, like a more secret, I wish it was a, a game within a game that we had to, you know, work for a little bit harder. Yeah. Okay.
[00:53:08] So we ultimately are going to have to wait until Wednesday morning when it's going to be revealed. We find out, I think last night that it is going to be part of the CPS early show, which is going to be on, uh, that according to, uh, Sam Moore, he's saying 7am is when they're going to do that. Yeah. 7am Eastern. 7am Eastern time, which does seem like, you know, as I used to watch a lot, I used to watch a lot more
[00:53:34] news for any, uh, I used to be a big today show guy and that back in my era of watching the today show, you'd watch it. And that was like a good time to tune in 7am because, you know, it was Ann Curry was the news person, uh, or, or actually no, or that the baby says she would come on later, but like they'd basically like, you could get caught up on like the, like the first couple stories of the day
[00:53:59] that they're going to bump whatever, like national world news is happening to like, uh, Hey audience that's here day in and day out. We're going to tell you about survivor 50. Yeah. Um, I feel like they should maybe wait and see what the world news is before they slot this in. Uh, you never know something big could happen. Um, yeah, I, uh, I will be tuning in. I mean, it'll be like 4am my time, but you're going to wake up and we set an alarm. No. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to do it.
[00:54:29] I, uh, when WandaVision was coming out, I talked to you about this. I really love Marvel stuff. Uh, when WandaVision was first coming out during COVID, I would wake up at, at 5am to watch it. So I'm very, very committed to the early rising for things I want to watch. Okay. Um, yeah, I'll be there with everyone else. So we'll see. I'd be surprised if they do it right at seven. I think they're going to say like, Hey, stay tuned in our third hour. We are going to bring you the survivor cast. Yeah. I'm going to be up at 4am.
[00:54:59] Damn it. I could have slept in. Um, yeah, I was really excited. I thought we were going to get to talk about the season 50 cast today. So I was devastated by the reveal that it's in a week, but, um, I'm, I'm very excited to see who's going to be there. I, um, I feel for season 49, I think it's going to be hard for us not to be thinking about and excited about 50 all throughout their season. But, um, yeah, I want it. I want, I want to know now. It's going to be okay.
[00:55:26] And for the 49ers, I think that it's going to be fine. If anybody from Survivor 49 is listening, like, sure. It seems like, Oh, that the, uh, like nobody's thinking about us and Hey, we matter to once we get to the fall and it comes on and it's Wednesday, like people aren't going to be like thinking about like people cared about survivor Samoa when it was on and not, and didn't only
[00:55:55] think about heroes versus villains. Uh, you know, and, and people watch survivor 39, even though like they knew winners, like, uh, they, they, they, they, as long as 49 doesn't do that, then, then they'll be great. Um, yeah. And there's some great, uh, some great watch parties on the books, perhaps for season 49. There's a lot to be excited about. Yeah. Well, Franny, we broke the news last night that, uh, this November, we're going to be coming
[00:56:23] out to see you and the San Francisco crew, the San Francisco 49ers. Yeah, no 49ers is perfect. Um, I've been, I mean, Rob, you know, I've been asking for this for a long time waiting until you can make the 49ers pun is, is worth the wait. It was worth the wait. People have said, like, please come to San Francisco. I said, hold on, let us cook. Give us five more years. We've got the perfect time to come. Yeah.
[00:56:51] Five years of waiting for one good pun. Yes. You will be so pleased. Yes. Uh, yeah, no, I think it's going to be an absolute blast. We're going to show you a very good time. And just wait and see what we have planned for Survivor 69. Okay. Oh, 10 more years. Franny. Yeah. Please. Somebody retire before that. I don't want to see what's planned. Big swing for the final year. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:57:21] That's going to be very exciting. Okay. Oh gosh. Franny. If we look back at Survivor 48, do you want to give out any superlatives? Do you have an MVP of Survivor 48? Oh, um, I have got, well, oh gosh, I'm going to give two MVPs. I'm going to give a pre-merge MVP and a post-merge MVP. Pre-merge MVP has to go to say, I had so much fun watching her. I would hate to play with her, but she was such fabulous television.
[00:57:50] And I like could not tear my eyes away from the screen whenever she would do anything. What was it about say that was made her such good television? She's just so, um, like flagrant and everything she does. I feel like she, um, the way that she acts shows that she kind of doesn't give a crap what people think about her. And, um, yeah, I feel like she's willing to think outside the box and be very funny.
[00:58:16] Like when she spelled out the message with sticks to Mary that she was like looking for an idol. We've never seen that before in, in, you know, 48 seasons of Survivor. Yeah. Um, yeah. I'd like to, uh, you know, speak to that. Yeah. I think that say was just so interesting because I think that she was such a departure from the rest of the cast where we talk so much about everybody on the cast
[00:58:40] buying in and embracing the experience and, and really like, uh, seeking like these deep relationships and say, I think was the one person who was the most self-interested person on the Island. And I think that it made her such an interesting character in this world where players may be self-interested, but they are all pretending that they are not super self-interested. Yeah. She was a breath of fresh air.
[00:59:10] And I also think the other thing that was unique about her is, um, I think a lot of players, especially those who are really big fans of the game go into Survivor with like a lot of tension. Like you don't want to do the wrong thing. You don't want to be too pushy about an Alliance or be, you know, too forward about telling people that they're on the bottom and say, was willing to be too much in every direction. And it was so fun. It was, it was great. She, um, I hope that other people are more willing to play like her.
[00:59:38] Clearly it's maybe not a great strategy, but it's so fun to watch. But for any other season, I think that she could have been somebody that they really wanted to take to the end. You think? I do think so because I think that the people are like, oh, I'd love to sit next to say at the end. I think it's, I mean, I think it depends. She, she is, you know, interpersonally, I can see that maybe people didn't love her,
[01:00:04] but she powered through the entire pre-merge and what she wanted to happen happened essentially. And so who's to say that she wouldn't power through the post-merge in the same way. I think that with, you know, with this group of people, like you said, she's so misaligned with everyone else that, um, it, it just was never going to quite work for her. But, uh, I don't know. I could see a world where people are like, wow, she's not very likable, but man, she did play a good game. Like we got to give it to her. Okay.
[01:00:31] So say is what your co-MVP, who's the other MVP for you? I, you have to give it to Camilla. I mean, she, she, in my opinion, she surprised herself. She came in with so many, uh, you know, barriers in her mind about how she was going to do poorly, how she was not going to win anything. And she was so compelling the entire time. Again, she felt like a breath of fresh air in this season where everyone is honorable,
[01:00:59] you know, telling the truth, even though Kyle was, was part of this, like he was, um, you know, setting up scaffolding for these, these plans. Camilla was the executor. Like she's the one who went and told the lies and that was much needed in this season. I felt like she really like carried that burden on her back of being the one to be the strategic, you know, mastermind and weasel a little bit. So I was, I was really glad to have her at the end.
[01:01:24] Now Camilla talked a lot about what her family's expectations were for her to come out and play. Yeah. How did your family react to you going on survivor? Um, yeah, well, I, I had a pretty different experience from her. I think everyone in my life was like, you're going to win. And then it was kind of awkward to come back and be like, no, no, I, I didn't win. Um, so I think it's maybe better in some cases to have them think, oh, you're going to do really bad. And then you get to surprise them when you do really well.
[01:01:54] Um, yeah, my family was very excited. Um, I, I, yeah, I feel for Camilla. I feel like that's, um, a lot to come into the game already with something to prove to like the people back home. Um, it's a, it's a burden to bear. So yeah, I didn't have that problem. Yeah. My family's like, yeah, you're going to do great. Do you think that they negged her into doing so well though?
[01:02:22] Um, oh, cause she's like trying to prove them wrong. Yeah. Is that possible? Yeah. Maybe, maybe they had like a family meeting without her and they were like, we gotta like, we gotta really get in her head. We gotta take her down so that she overperforms. Maybe. Yeah. I want to know what that conversation was like when she came back home and they were like, okay, so what? So you, you did really bad. And she had to say, no, I, you know, I actually did pretty well. It's good. It's fun. It's a good family moment.
[01:02:52] Yeah. Like, well, you didn't tell everybody that we, you, we said you were going to do bad, right? Yeah. She's like, well, it might've come up. Yeah. It could have come up a couple of times. Jeff really leaned into that. He was, he had a lot to say to, to mom and dad back home. Yeah. Uh, he was so happy that that was part of it where Camilla had self doubt that she was overcoming. And he talked about it. I listened to the on fire podcast.
[01:03:19] I listened to it every week, but he talked about how he really feels like, uh, I think I'm trying to remember the, his quote that he says, but he says the, the game is the lore, but the experience is the prize. I think that that's, uh, how he, uh, uses that, uh, that phrase where basically like we, uh, basically entice you to like, Hey, you don't want to come play this game, but actually like what you're coming to do is get this experience out of the show. I see. I see.
[01:03:49] Okay. Yeah. When you first said that, it felt like a Mad Libs or something. The game is the, uh, lore. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I see that. That, I mean, that was very much my, uh, experience as well. Like I came in thinking I really wanted to play the game and what was so meaningful for me was the like personal, uh, discoveries that were made along the way. Um, yeah, I think that's, it's a good way to see survivor. And, and the other thing that I like about that, and I think why Jeff really leans into
[01:04:17] that assessment is because in that framework, everyone wins. Everyone gets a prize because even if you're voted out first, you have the opportunity to learn something about yourself and grow as a person. And so it's kind of like, uh, you get a prize and you get a prize attitude. I've really, you know, talked about this, uh, for a while that really, that, that is survivor in the new era where it's really not necessarily that, uh, like, did it come up once? Like what's Kyle going to do with the money? What's, what was anybody going to do with the money?
[01:04:44] The most you ever hear is like, okay, family, uh, I'm getting married. That that's really it. Everything else, you know, is like, we really try to like, freight, like frame things as like, what did I get out of this experience? Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I prefer that because I, I never really liked when people would get to the end and then make a decision just based on who felt deserving of the money rather than who was, you know, deserving based on the game they played.
[01:05:14] Like in my opinion, it's all as like self-contained bubble and you have to consider what is within the bubble, which is the game. All that other stuff that's outside the bubble. Like that's for later. Um, so yeah, I, I, I, I like this format. It feels a little participation trophy, but the, you know, the things that people learn about themselves and the personal developments they made are all real and they are compelling to watch. Okay. Let me bring in some questions from the listeners. Trevor Chong says, if this season was in the hands of the fans and the fire making was
[01:05:43] voted off, does that change the end game at all? Or is it the same result? Okay. Now all of a sudden no final four fire making. And I guess, do they know it or it's like a, well, there might be final four fire making. I feel like you have to give them the might be. Cause that's, you know, um, so that would, okay. So that would give us a final four vote where they could not use idols. Right. And Kyle ends up being immune at the vote. Ooh. Well, I feel like the result is the same.
[01:06:13] So do you think they vote out Camilla? I think they vote out Camilla. Um, or does Kyle and Camilla? Well, if Kyle and Camilla feel like, Hey, one of us, you know, needs to be there. And it's like, Kyle's like, well, I got the necklace. So sorry. We said. Yeah. Or maybe they, maybe they're willing to go to rocks because fire. Fire making. So that's why I think it's not ideal to have it.
[01:06:43] Cause I feel like half the time it's going to be a two, two tie. That's going to go to fire. Yeah. Yeah. And it's more, it's a little more interesting. It'd be more exciting if it wasn't mandatory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't force them into it. Um, yeah. I think it's a treat. A treat. Very exciting. I, I, uh, I do wonder if it would have changed the lead up to final four though. Like if they, if they weren't sure that there was a fire making, like maybe then you are more comfortable like leaving Mitch and I don't know.
[01:07:11] I'm curious what you think about all the like Mitch rhetoric. Like, did they actually believe that Mitch was going to get votes? Is that real? Or is that just like what they're telling him? A hard thing to parse because they say that about everybody, Camilla, Mitch, Eva, Joe, like every, Mary, any single person, they, Shaheen, they, if they got to the end, they were going to win. And I don't think that Mitch had a winning coalition on the jury. Yeah, I agree with that.
[01:07:37] I think, uh, Mitch's only win condition perhaps is if he is there with Joe and Eva and the jury is so pissed at them. Like that's maybe his only option. And they think to themselves, Hey, we're going to vote for this guy who's scrappy. He survived all the way through. Um, you know, and he's the better option than this majority that we're frustrated with. Especially if it comes, uh, by him going on like a comp run, like he wins final five. He makes the fire.
[01:08:07] Like he sort of like ends up sneaking in there because of like his, uh, challenge ability. Yeah. I really thought that based on the, some of the, uh, group challenges, I thought that Mitch would be a bigger contender for individual immunity. He's so good at throwing things. Yeah. Anything that's like, and then we came up last night underhand throwing the ball that Mitch is, uh, He's got it. Yeah. Yeah. In the pre-marge is like, okay, Mitch don't miss. People would say it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. He was really good.
[01:08:37] I will say this season, the individual challenges felt very physical to me. There's really only that one puzzle that Camilla wins. Um, and all of the other challenges, a lot of them were like literally testing arm strength specifically. Uh, and I, I, you know, it makes you wonder like to what degree does the cast, you know, like does the survivor team look at this cast and say, Oh, there's some strong cookies out there. Like, let's give them more physical challenges.
[01:09:06] I really can't imagine that they, uh, like plan out like the specific challenges they have based off of like the strengths of the cast. I can't imagine. I just feel like that they were planning these two seasons, like back to back the cast changes. I just don't think that they would have enough time to be able to set it up that way. I think it's more luck of the draw. Yeah. Well, it worked out really well for the strong people, a narrative and group to have all these. Were you more of an arms challenge person or a legs challenge person?
[01:09:36] Um, I, the challenges that I won were arms, like it was holding up like this, but I feel like I don't have much arm strength. It's like, I just, I have pretty good pain tolerance. That's what, that's my, I like a pain tolerance. Challenge. Okay. It's true. Yeah. Um, have you tested your pain tolerance in any other ways? Oh, um, yeah. So the, the, the study that I work on, um, one of the things that the study participants
[01:10:03] do is a cold water test where they have to dip their arm into icy cold water and see how long they can hold it. And I did break the record at my lab for holding it in the water the longest. What's the temperature of the water? I don't know. Pretty cold. Negative. Well, it's not frozen. So I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's probably like 32, 33. It's like right above freezing. Wow. Okay.
[01:10:31] I mean, this is like, uh, that movie Nova cane, right? Where the guy can't feel pain. Oh, he doesn't feel any pain. Yeah. Yeah. It's huge. Maybe that's me. Yeah. Um, yeah. I think that's, I think it's a big thing in survivor challenges. Cause so much of it is just like you physically can do this. It just sucks really bad and you have to deal with it. And maybe it's a blessing and a curse that you don't feel the physical pain, but I feel like you're very tapped into emotions and you can feel emotional pain. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:11:02] The emotional pain. Very big. Maybe that's like one of those things where it's like, you know, you have one sense that's not as good, but then your other sense is even sharper. Yeah. They compensate. Yeah. I can't hear for shit, but great emotional know-how. Um, yeah, it could be, uh, not, not, not a ton of, uh, big criers on this season. I think we didn't get a lot of like really teary confessionals that we've had in previous seasons. Did you miss them? It's interesting. Um, yeah, I miss them. Yeah.
[01:11:31] I feel like I, I like the breakdown every once in a while. You gotta have it. I guess we had some of that from Eva, but we have a lot of stoic people like Kyle, very stoic. Joe's very stoic. Let me ask you about David, who was one of the most interesting jurors we've ever had in the history of the show where David ultimately that he did the bit where he stood up for Mary.
[01:11:56] He had this scowl on his face and then he finally speaks at the final travel council last night and says, knock, knock. Yeah. And there's a pregnant pause. People don't know how to, and they finally say, who's there? And he said, not me. Good job, you guys. And it turns out that it was a bit, the whole thing. This was like Willy Wonka, like walking out with like a cane, like all decrepit. Yeah. That was ridiculous.
[01:12:24] Um, well, what's interesting is it was a bit the whole time, but I feel like it did influence the decisions of the people in the game. Because the jury looked so pissed, like they made decisions or assumptions based on that. Um, yeah, it was, it was odd. Uh, I wonder why he waited to do the bit until the middle of final travel council, kind of a big moment for the final three. Uh, he, he wanted to bring it back, uh, to the knock, knock joke. Um, yeah. David's an, uh, very odd guy.
[01:12:54] He, and he continues to surprise me. Okay. Now what did you think about the moment last night where then they brought out for David? Okay. They have a guy named Steven. Oh yeah. Who is there to bring it. Did you meet Steven when you were there? The milk man. Uh, no, I don't know Steven personally. We, we didn't, we didn't do a milk bit so they didn't have to bring him in. He's a very specialized. So Steven comes in and he brings out, he brings in milk. And we learned this about David, that he has a very specific way of drinking, that there
[01:13:23] is a specific angle that correlates to masculine energy and feminine energy. Yeah. Um, I don't know how I felt about that. It's a little, uh, surprised they had it in the show. Yeah. I, I, you'd think that that would get cut. Um, I, it was, it felt a little like Buzzfeed quiz. Like what is your milk drinking style say about you? Yeah. Um, yeah, I didn't think that needed to be kept in.
[01:13:53] Um, it felt like a funny bit that was overlaid over some, some real, uh, Jeff had a good line at the end. So I don't know if they, maybe they were like on the fence, but like, uh, Jeff has a pretty quick line at the end. So keep it. Yeah. Well, they were like, we can't have Steven bring in the milk and then like not show the bed. Like, you know, we had to, they had to like close the loop on it. But, um, yeah, that was a, I don't know that that was critical. How do you drink milk?
[01:14:21] I never thought, well, first of all, I don't really drink a lot of milk. Uh, so that's, that's part of my problem. That's your first problem. I never had like the, like, I feel like, uh, the, the angle of, of drinking, it seems very mechanical. Yeah. It was really, you know, it's like, you got a protractor out. It was like 45 degrees, 90 degrees. I feel like I'm a, I feel like I'm a solid 45 degree or, you know what I mean? Good. Somewhere in the middle.
[01:14:51] Split the difference. Yeah. I'm not going to ask David what that says about me. I'm probably not going to like get my head too much about it. Yeah. Well now, now you can't drink milk at all. You're not going to be able to drink milk normally for the rest of your life. I feel, um, yeah, David really, he, I, what are the chances that David gets a got milk? Uh, I think almost zero. I don't think that they even do that kind of stuff anymore.
[01:15:16] This has got to be the biggest milk moment though in years. Maybe a big milk will decide it's time to like bring back got milk for the occasion. Milk. When is milk going to have a bigger moment than this? Yeah. Do you think that maybe they could really run with that of like, Hey, drink milk like a man, 90 degrees or get out of here. Yeah. Yeah. How do you drink your milk? Yeah.
[01:15:46] Are you masculine or feminine? Um, yeah, actually maybe David tanked his chances with that, uh, that explanation there, but I don't know. I can see it. I can see him with the, you know, the mustache doing the whole thing. All right. Uh, another question for you, Franny from John says, what does Franny think of two straight seasons where players made big moves late strictly to play to the jury? Did you ever consider or witness something similar? Okay.
[01:16:11] Uh, I guess that John is referring to Rachel's funeral where she played the idol at the final six. Um, I don't know necessarily if there was like a, uh, late move here to play to the jury. I think that the, that the jury's reactions was part, was the reason maybe why they felt good about going with Joe and Eva, but I wouldn't say that there were moves made for the jury. Yeah. Um, maybe, maybe we're thinking about Eva's idol play, which was certainly like performative
[01:16:41] and not necessary. But that's happened before we like, well, it's the last night I can use this. So I guess I'll just play it. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like, yeah, I don't necessarily know that we got that. I was interested in, um, Eva, her final tribal council performance. I thought was really fabulous. Like she blew me out of the water. I thought she did a really good job. I feel like she really took the, uh, she, she did the Marian Okach playbook. She like revealed her thing that she had. She said, you've been underestimating me this whole time, but I've done this, this, and this.
[01:17:10] Um, and yeah, I was very, I was very impressed with her. I thought it was very snazzy that she got those votes. It was a big surprise. Cause I think we thought it was like a Joe versus Kyle race. And then after the final tribal council, I'm like, I don't think that I guess it's Kyle versus Eva. Yeah. Yeah. I was shopping. And I, I, and I think that, I think that, I think that, they were all shocked when Joe got the one vote. I'm glad that he got a vote. Cause I think it is fun to, uh, no longer have the zero vote finalists.
[01:17:37] Like that's a really tough place for people, but, um, yeah, they just, the jury was not having it with Joe. And again, Kyle read it, right. Do you think the jury might ever get together and say like, Hey, like, uh, let's not, let's not let anybody have a zero vote. So, okay. Who's going to be the one person to cast a vote for the zero vote person? See, I feel like that. I mean, maybe, but I feel like that's crazy because, you know, I felt that it, it says
[01:18:05] so much about me the way that where I put my vote. Like I experienced a lot of final travel voting anxiety because I was like, people are gonna, you know, psychoanalyze me based on how I do my vote here. And so, uh, I feel like nobody would be willing to give up their voting autonomy just for the sake of not having a zero vote finalist. Um, I mean, Cedric, you know, Cedric is willing to do it, but I think if anybody felt coerced into doing it, it'd be like, well, I'm not going to do that just for Joe.
[01:18:34] And Kyle said that he felt like that Cedric was burned by Kyle when that they were at that split tribal council and they ultimately didn't vote for, uh, that he did not save Cedric at that vote. Yeah. Um, I liked the enduring narrative that Cedric, uh, Cedric just votes for whoever. Yeah. He just doesn't, he doesn't really come in with a plan and he, he, you know, does not go along with expectations. So he, he stuck with that right to the very end. Okay.
[01:19:03] Franny, anything else on your mind about survivor 48, 49, 50 beyond? Yeah. Um, I think that, uh, I think that season 48, it had its highs that had its lows. I think this is a season that will get better with age. I think, you know, five years from now, when we, we rewatch this on a binge, we're gonna, we're gonna like it more because it's, you know, it's fun to see the through lines that
[01:19:32] go through the entire season. And if you can kind of speed through some of the slower moments, it is really fun. Um, but yeah, I'm excited for something fresh, something new. 49 is going to have sweaty energy, I guess. Um, and yeah, I'm so hyped for season 50. Like I am going to feel like a kid again and I, it cannot come soon enough for me. What is it about survivor 50 that has you the most excited?
[01:19:57] Um, well, I, I love the kind of like crossover event phenomenon. Like, you know, the Avengers and game infinity war, where people are coming together from all these different movies. That's what I feel like returning player seasons are, you know, you have these, uh, characters built up in their mind, in your mind, and it's mind blowing to see them interact. So that's what I'm really excited about. Like, I want to see somebody from, you know, 15 years ago playing with somebody who's in the new era.
[01:20:26] What does that even look like? Um, yeah, I'm, I'm really ecstatic for it. Yeah. Do you think that the players from the old era will be able to handle the new era pace? I think they're going to get a little, I think it depends, um, depends on how, how old era they are. You know what I mean? I think that, uh, there are some people who have been rumored who might be a little, uh,
[01:20:54] caught up in the tornado as it were of advantages and speed. Um, I shouldn't name any names and I won't, but, um, yeah, I think that some people will struggle to adjust, but a lot of, uh, old era players who I think would be in contention are very astute and I think they will know how to adapt very well. Yeah. It'll be, uh, fascinating to talk about all summer long. So, uh, looking forward to that. All right. Franny, anything else, uh, outside survivor you want to talk about?
[01:21:25] Oh, outside survivor. Um, loving, loving in San Francisco. Oh, we're wrapping up the, uh, dungeons and dragons podcast. Yes. We have, is it coming to like a, you, you make it sound like it's coming to a big finale. It is coming to a big finale. It's, it's, uh, it is not, it was never meant to be like an infinite thing. And, you know, it's like a narrative arc and we recorded our final episode. So the, the arc is coming to a close. The episodes are still coming out.
[01:21:51] Um, but we will be wrapping that up in terms of releasing probably this summer. And, uh, yeah, I just have to say it's the, it is like the thing I have created that I am the most proud of in my life. I think it's so cool. I, I got so much like value out of being a part of it. Um, and I had a lot of fun that I did. Yes. We had so much fun with you and like getting to bring people in and see how they interact in that space. Um, was so fun.
[01:22:20] And I, I just love being a part of it. So big plug for anybody to go listen to it. The cool thing about it is it's not linked to time in any way. It's a, it's a story that is not related to what's happening in the real world. So you can listen to it anytime. There's no rush and thank God for that. Yes. Okay. Surviving the dice. Go check it out. All right. Now, I don't know if Debbie doing pushups is going to crack the list, but you too can vote
[01:22:46] for the 25 greatest moments in survivor history. It is time to vote. You can cast your votes. We have selected 100 moments across 48 seasons. Uh, you can write in moments. If you think that David drinking the milk should be in consideration, you can do write in votes as well. Rob has a website.com slash top 25 voting is open through Tuesday when we will close the polls and we will bring
[01:23:15] you a weekly installment, uh, coming up starting every Wednesday in the month of June, uh, top 25 greatest moments in survivor history for the 25 years of survivor. Of course, when survivor news breaks, go to our H a P. We know survivor.com where you can get all of the information. Make sure you subscribe because we will have reactions to all the big survivor news coming this summer.
[01:23:42] And then of course, uh, we mentioned it earlier. We've got two big live shows coming this fall. Patrons will have first access. Sometimes these tickets end up selling out. Rob is a website.com slash patron. If you want to make sure you get the first word on ticket availability for New York city and San Francisco in survivor 49. This Friday, I'll be taking questions from the patrons. Franny.
[01:24:09] I take, uh, live calls from people 3 PM Eastern on Friday. We'll close out survivor 49 and that will be the, uh, 48, 48. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. He's getting old. I skipped the whole season. Yeah. So, uh, maybe they'll, uh, we'll do club condo next week. So not the last word on survivor 48. Uh, if there's any social media shenanigans that come up. Shenanigans.
[01:24:36] Um, one more plug for the San Francisco, uh, live know-it-alls event. I don't know if we'll be able to get her involved, but Camilla famously lives in the Bay area. Oh, so we want to get her. She's not busy. Tell her to save the date. I'll tell her to save the date. Yeah. We'll get her. We'll get her in there. Yeah. It's a fun group of people. I'm very, very excited. So hope to see people there. Yeah. All right. Brandy, anything else coming up for you?
[01:25:04] Um, no, just, uh, just having a, you know, like I said, hype girl, summer, hot girl, summer, uh, and yeah, trying to figure out what's coming next. That's where we're at. All right. Well, thank you all so much for joining us here for one last look back on the survivor 48 finale. I love to read your comments always on the episode. So let us know how you think we did. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye.