Christian Hubicki Recaps Survivor 47 Ep 8

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[00:01:03] Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cesternino back with you after episode 8 of Survivor 47, getting the chance to talk about something a little different tonight. We're talking about an auction episode of Survivor and I'm so thrilled to have my great friend, Dr. Christian Hubicki here with us live for the postgame. Christian, how are you?

[00:01:32] Doing just fine, Rob. I'm ready to have some fun. I will say that. And it was a fun episode and a lot of fun things to dig into. So I really honestly can't wait. This is going to be such a joy.

[00:01:43] Yeah, I think this is going to be a good one here tonight. Look, I know everybody has been through a lot over these last few months. Whether you're happy today, maybe not as happy today.

[00:01:58] I do relish the chance to talk about something that brings us all together and that is this game of Survivor. And here, the red and the blue, they work together to vote out Sierra.

[00:02:15] Indeed, they did. Indeed, they did. I felt, Rob, and I know we'll dig right into this, but this was a vote that very clearly was the result of the politics that were boiling over from previous votes. It was starting to get some payoffs and setups to the rest of the season. There's so much to dig into.

[00:02:33] So much to get into. Let me, I have some explaining to do. People might be like, if you're watching the video, where's Rob? Why is he not in the studio? It's been a weird day. Okay. Said everybody. But for me, especially, Christian, are you familiar with in your science, the science of aerating a lawn?

[00:02:59] I'm assuming what that is. You take little holes, you drill into the lawn.

[00:03:04] Drill, baby, drill. Drill holes.

[00:03:06] I can see how this could have gone awry, but you can either confirm or refute my theory here.

[00:03:11] And the young man who did this, I don't know if this was his first day on the job, managed to sever my fiber optic cable that is the lifeline going to my house.

[00:03:25] And so on a Survivor Wednesday, no less, I scrambled and have booked a stay at a local hotel to podcast with you here tonight.

[00:03:42] Come nor rain, nor sleep, nor snow.

[00:03:46] What is the podcasting motto?

[00:03:47] I forget exactly.

[00:03:49] No, look.

[00:03:51] Look, it's Wednesday night and we got to go live, whether I have an internet connection or not.

[00:03:57] So hopefully everything works out well here tonight and we're able to talk about this episode.

[00:04:05] And later on, maybe I'll also share some details.

[00:04:09] I got a chance to actually see this episode on Saturday.

[00:04:12] I was part of a crew that was at UNC.

[00:04:15] They had a special college screening where I was with some Survivor legends like Sandra Diaz-Twine, Crystal Cox, Johnny Fairplay, Sabrina Thompson and Jane Bright were all part of a crew that watched this together on the campus of UNC Chapel Hill.

[00:04:39] Well, this is really cool.

[00:04:40] Was this arranged by Survivor itself?

[00:04:42] Yeah, CBS.

[00:04:42] They do the college tours and they've been going all over the country and they did one in UNC and I had a chance to be a part of that.

[00:04:50] So some stories later on from that.

[00:04:54] Plus, on Thursday, I will speak with Sierra, who was my last pick on my draft team.

[00:04:59] Not a banner year for me in the draft.

[00:05:02] And I will speak with my third and final draft pick, Sierra, coming up on our exit interview on Thursday.

[00:05:11] And then Stephen Fishback for the Survivor Know-It-Alls will actually join me on Friday this week.

[00:05:15] Stephen has a little bit of a schedule issue.

[00:05:19] So I'll talk to Stephen on Friday and on Thursday instead, we'll do our patron Survivor Q&A.

[00:05:26] So join us at that.

[00:05:27] That's going to be at 3 p.m. Eastern for our patrons.

[00:05:30] Rob is website.com slash patron for the link for that.

[00:05:33] But Christian, you and I haven't gotten the chance to talk during Survivor 47.

[00:05:38] How are you feeling?

[00:05:39] I mean, I'm feeling great.

[00:05:41] You know, again, I feel like every time I talk to you, Rob, and you're like, Christian, how are you doing?

[00:05:45] It's like, well, it's the semester and I'm a teacher.

[00:05:48] So, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:05:50] So I'll spare you all that.

[00:05:51] And we'll talk about this season, which I think is getting to a nice crescendo.

[00:05:55] So it's been a lot of fun.

[00:05:56] And so I'm excited to see the payoff of tonight.

[00:06:02] But, yeah, I'm doing OK.

[00:06:03] OK.

[00:06:03] OK.

[00:06:04] Well, a lot to break down from this episode.

[00:06:06] The auction was back, and I'm sure we'll talk a lot about that.

[00:06:10] But I'd love to start with this tribal council and a few interesting things here revolving around.

[00:06:17] First, the vote target.

[00:06:20] How about Sierra being the target?

[00:06:23] It was very interesting.

[00:06:24] We had this eight-person alliance that we saw come together tonight.

[00:06:28] And there were people who were in favor of getting rid of Sam.

[00:06:32] There were people in favor of getting rid of Sierra.

[00:06:34] And people in favor of getting rid of Rachel.

[00:06:36] What did you think about the decision to have Sierra be the person to go home?

[00:06:42] Well, that's a – I think that for the people who made that decision, I think it's honestly a smart one.

[00:06:46] Of those three targets, and I'll tell you why from our perspective.

[00:06:50] And it all comes down to who is left behind and how threatening do they seem to be.

[00:06:57] So clearly people have talked about this power couple of Sierra and Sam running things.

[00:07:02] So they were a target.

[00:07:03] And there was, of course, also the tertiary target and Rachel, which that – her being deflected from is a whole payoff to another storyline with Saul and Saul's secret agents.

[00:07:15] That's that.

[00:07:15] The Social Security Administration wants its name back.

[00:07:18] But the – it makes sense because if you get rid of – if you get rid of Sierra, who is left of the three people who are left out of that vote?

[00:07:27] Sam and Rachel, both of whom I think stand out as potential targets and people who are – people are concerned about making a deep run in the game.

[00:07:37] They've said this multiple times about Rachel even before she exited the tribal council last episode.

[00:07:44] And Sam just has this way of every – you see it in all the conversations that pop up on the show.

[00:07:49] Oh, a thing happens and Sam's like – he has a strategic opinion about it.

[00:07:53] So I feel like he's a person that's always going to stand out as a potential threat and a target.

[00:07:59] So you get rid of Ulapov Sierra, who I think was quite competent, but I think that doesn't have that same bubbles up to the surface as this person has to go as the other two.

[00:08:11] So leaving this other two behind gives everyone else a little bit more wiggle room to play.

[00:08:16] And yeah, there's – so – and the way the tribal council played out also crazy.

[00:08:21] But please continue.

[00:08:22] So I thought it was pretty savvy.

[00:08:25] I think it was Genevieve who first says, you know, I want to leave some of the not-so-obvious targets in the game.

[00:08:32] And that's why I don't necessarily want to go after Sam at this vote.

[00:08:36] I thought that was interesting.

[00:08:37] But Rachel, do you think that that would have been a juicier target?

[00:08:43] Again, and this is that they do not know she has an idol and probably have no way of knowing or suspecting that she has an idol.

[00:08:52] Well, doesn't she seem like the more enticing target for eight people to come together on?

[00:08:59] It certainly would seem that way.

[00:09:01] And I think that based on what they know, that might have been the right call.

[00:09:05] Now, based upon the things that we saw, one – Rachel, I think, is such an interesting position right now for a number of reasons.

[00:09:13] But what we saw happen, her playing that shot in the dark, I think makes her look even more threatening.

[00:09:20] And another target – I mean, because – what a read.

[00:09:23] What a read.

[00:09:24] And we haven't seen the shot in the dark played like that before as far as I can tell.

[00:09:30] Yeah.

[00:09:31] Let's talk about it.

[00:09:32] Okay.

[00:09:32] So Rachel – and I watched this with a big crowd of people.

[00:09:36] Everyone is very excited.

[00:09:37] The music was intense.

[00:09:40] Boom, boom, boom.

[00:09:41] Yes.

[00:09:42] This was like so well done, this whole sequence.

[00:09:46] And then you're wondering because I wasn't even thinking that Rachel would play the shot in the dark.

[00:09:51] I thought – you see her reaching for her pocket of, okay, she's going to play the idol.

[00:09:56] But then she takes out the scroll and then here's the shot in the dark.

[00:10:00] So for Rachel to do the shot in the dark first, did you think that the idol was coming out second?

[00:10:10] If it didn't work?

[00:10:11] That's interesting.

[00:10:12] I didn't think that – like I was kind of surprised the shot in the dark came out at all.

[00:10:16] But I didn't think about the one-two punch of it.

[00:10:18] Where basically she's thinking that she doesn't value the shot in the dark that heavily.

[00:10:24] And I think which – yeah, it makes sense that she marginally reduces her chances of going home and then plays the idol second.

[00:10:33] What that – if I were getting into Rachel's brain there, I would assume she's making an assessment as to how likely is it that I am actually being targeted here.

[00:10:40] And clearly it was not existential.

[00:10:43] Otherwise, she would have played her dang idol, I would say.

[00:10:45] Yeah, so this is something that – I do the patron Q&A and this is something that I – Josh Kettles, a patron, a very active Survivor Twitter account, has talked about.

[00:11:01] And I believe he calls it a shot and a chaser of I'm going to play the shot in the dark.

[00:11:07] If I have an idol, play the shot in the dark first because then if that hits, I don't have to play my idol first off.

[00:11:15] So it's – I'm sort of like being like economical with my idol where potentially I could get through two tribal councils.

[00:11:21] But this was so interesting what Rachel did where she appeared to read the room.

[00:11:27] I know she's a poker player.

[00:11:28] I know that she is somebody who has been a, you know, online poker player.

[00:11:34] And this was almost like that she made a bet and was sort of like, OK, I'm not going to – you know, I'm going to fold.

[00:11:44] I'm not going to, you know, go all in after I'm sort of like reading the reaction of the table.

[00:11:50] That's really interesting.

[00:11:51] I love this take from you, Rob.

[00:11:54] This is – I didn't pick up this as like, you know, trying to raise and see if you bluff people out.

[00:12:01] You know, I'm not a poker guy.

[00:12:02] She was afraid to do if it makes sense.

[00:12:04] It's not that she was trying to bluff them, but she was sort of like – like I think that – and I'd have to go back and like watch like the Caleb shot in the dark of like the reaction of, you know, everybody like when he's safe, everybody goes nuts.

[00:12:17] But prior to that, like what's the reaction of the players who know that they've written down the person's name and I'm going to play the shot in the dark?

[00:12:26] Is it like, oh.

[00:12:28] Yes.

[00:12:28] You know, there's – and nobody was like, huh.

[00:12:32] Yeah, I mean I think that that's totally a thing that can happen.

[00:12:36] Now, I'm normally fairly skeptical of a player's claims that they read the physical reactions of people in the room in a moment because most people kind of understand that this is a tense moment.

[00:12:47] That advantages might be played.

[00:12:49] So they try to keep it together.

[00:12:51] But that – but it very well could have been the case in this case.

[00:12:55] I think to me what I was impressed of out the gate was how she read tribal councils begin with as being a dangerous one for her.

[00:13:04] And this is something that's come up.

[00:13:06] I think a few times we've talked, Rob, is that tribal council has all these metaphors and analogies floating around.

[00:13:13] And normally it's not really meaningful on the surface.

[00:13:16] But if they don't make sense to you, then clearly you're not in a whatever plotting is going on.

[00:13:24] If the themes of what the voter are about, the Jeff's asking, you're like, this makes no sense.

[00:13:29] I remember I talked with Gabby about this a long time ago.

[00:13:31] And she had like – the votes that she knew was going on versus the ones where she didn't.

[00:13:34] She was like, what the hell is Jeff talking – what is everyone talking about?

[00:13:37] And those are the ones she didn't know was going on.

[00:13:39] And I think that that's really –

[00:13:40] What can you do?

[00:13:41] Like I don't – I got to be honest.

[00:13:43] I'm not following the line of questioning here.

[00:13:46] Is it just too late?

[00:13:48] Are you just sort of like enjoying the ride at that point?

[00:13:52] Well, I mean in this new era, which by the way, at some point, Jeff, it won't be new anymore.

[00:13:57] So we're going to have to – we're going to have to call it something else.

[00:14:01] But the – you play The Shine in the Dark if you really feel that that's the case, which is what she did.

[00:14:07] Or that's your cue to play in Idol, which is a cue that I think people in season 46 would have loved to have a number of times.

[00:14:16] But I mean that's what you do.

[00:14:17] I mean you could also audible live tribal something, you know, something Rick Devins would do.

[00:14:23] I mean there's a bag of tricks that you could bring into play.

[00:14:26] But it's certainly not a good position.

[00:14:28] Yeah.

[00:14:29] So I think that that's such an interesting spot for her.

[00:14:33] And we could talk about where she goes after this.

[00:14:38] Now, we had an interesting wrinkle of this tie vote, which ends up coming out of that.

[00:14:45] We have four votes for Sam.

[00:14:48] Was it – or was it five-five?

[00:14:51] Five votes Sam, five votes Sierra, and one vote Gabe.

[00:14:55] There was two – there were two votes missing, so it couldn't have been.

[00:14:58] So it must have been four-four-one.

[00:14:59] Four-four-one.

[00:15:00] Four-four-one.

[00:15:00] Yeah.

[00:15:00] Okay.

[00:15:03] So Jeff gives us this interesting part of the tiebreak rule.

[00:15:09] And Jeff says that, all right, normally the two people that it's tied against, they have to vote for each other so they don't get to vote.

[00:15:16] But because Sam didn't vote, and I'm not sure if it's also because that Sierra voted for Gabe, Sierra got to go and cast a vote.

[00:15:30] This blew my mind, Rob.

[00:15:32] This blew my mind.

[00:15:33] This changes – I say this without irony.

[00:15:37] This changes my entire conception as to how tiebreakers worked in the context of the rules of Survivor.

[00:15:43] And the implications couldn't be more medium.

[00:15:47] And the – so basically – so as my understanding of the tie vote and the way it's been said is that when there is a tie, okay, that the people for whom the tie votes are on, they do not vote on the revote.

[00:16:03] Right?

[00:16:03] That that is an explicit rule.

[00:16:05] Okay.

[00:16:06] And what Jeff clarified tonight is that – no, no, no.

[00:16:09] It's not an explicit rule.

[00:16:11] The fact that they don't vote is implied by the fact that their votes cannot possibly matter because they can only vote for each other.

[00:16:19] And because they can't vote for each other, that's why they don't vote.

[00:16:23] I mean that makes sense for the explicit rule.

[00:16:25] But Jeff said, no, no.

[00:16:27] If the underlying circumstances change, then they can vote.

[00:16:30] So I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:16:32] Is this an explicit rule or an implicit rule?

[00:16:35] Is it implied that they don't vote?

[00:16:36] And here it's very clear that, oh, it's implied.

[00:16:38] And so we're like, all right.

[00:16:40] So if you're trying to build the rules of Survivor, which by the way, nobody actually knows.

[00:16:45] Nobody knows what they are.

[00:16:47] They're not written down anywhere we can see.

[00:16:49] I played the game.

[00:16:50] I never saw said rule book.

[00:16:51] I wish I could have.

[00:16:53] So we have to infer what the rules are.

[00:16:55] What is the rule that might make sense that – for tie votes?

[00:16:58] And it could be like if your vote could not possibly change the outcome or a set of votes

[00:17:05] could not possibly change the outcome, they don't vote.

[00:17:08] And that would be – explain what we have.

[00:17:10] But there's a problem with this is that what other kinds of tie votes have happened?

[00:17:15] What happens if there's a tie vote of three people?

[00:17:18] OK?

[00:17:18] Which has happened.

[00:17:19] It's – which has happened.

[00:17:21] I didn't get a chance to look up how many times it's happened.

[00:17:23] That's a lie.

[00:17:24] I absolutely did.

[00:17:24] It was seven times in the history of the show, OK, that three people – that they're three-way ties.

[00:17:31] OK?

[00:17:31] So theoretically in that scenario, what should happen per Jeff's clarification of the rules?

[00:17:36] Well, it actually matters who these three people vote for because they could vote for any one of these – of the other two.

[00:17:42] In fact, they could gang up on – the two could gang up on the one, right?

[00:17:45] So it should matter.

[00:17:47] Therefore, they should vote.

[00:17:48] Guess what they do?

[00:17:48] They don't vote.

[00:17:50] So what is it?

[00:17:51] What are the rules of a tie?

[00:17:53] And now we're in this sort of rule limbo as to what the tie votes are.

[00:17:58] Do you think that part of it is that Sam didn't have a vote, that one of the people that it was tied against did not have a vote?

[00:18:05] Yeah, that's literally –

[00:18:05] What was the bigger factor?

[00:18:06] Was it that Sam didn't have a vote or that Sierra voted for a person who wasn't part of the tie?

[00:18:10] It doesn't matter who they voted – who the person voted for because the whole idea of having the re-vote is that there was a hinky vote going off somewhere else.

[00:18:18] It's like, OK, fine.

[00:18:19] Hey, how's your hinky vote?

[00:18:20] Your time is – now your time to vote for one of the targets, right?

[00:18:23] It's definitely that Sam didn't have a vote, and therefore their votes would not cancel off of each other.

[00:18:28] So that's – and they're like, oh, therefore the underlying reason why they wouldn't vote is now gone, and therefore they must now vote, which is in direct contradiction with what happens at a three-way tie, which has happened seven times in the history of the show.

[00:18:41] So like I said, when will this matter?

[00:18:44] Never, because it means one extra vote on – anyway, it doesn't make any – it will never matter.

[00:18:51] But the rule guy in me wonders what it is.

[00:18:56] Please tell me.

[00:18:58] You're asking the wrong person.

[00:19:01] That sends Christian a message on Twitter at Chubicki.

[00:19:07] OK?

[00:19:08] All right.

[00:19:08] Yeah, I was thinking about that because like – because that would be the implication, right?

[00:19:13] Because the goal – like if you're trying to write, I don't know, an algorithm whose job it was to interpret the rules of survivor, right?

[00:19:20] What would you write?

[00:19:21] What would be the rules you would follow?

[00:19:23] And this complete – and before made sense.

[00:19:27] You're it.

[00:19:27] If you're a target of a tie vote, you don't vote.

[00:19:30] That's the way it would happen when it's a two-person tie or a three-person tie.

[00:19:33] That's how it works.

[00:19:35] I'll leave it there so we get on to other topics.

[00:19:37] But I wanted to put that out there for those of you who actually do care about the rules.

[00:19:40] So let me know.

[00:19:41] All right.

[00:19:42] Well, let's talk about Sierra.

[00:19:43] And she ultimately has this surprising vote out here.

[00:19:49] Another emotional exit.

[00:19:50] She got to have it spread out a little bit over the course of getting this tiebreaker.

[00:19:58] And so it wasn't like this instant blindside like we've seen with Tiana and Annika and Asia and some of these other people earlier in the season.

[00:20:07] But another real gut punch for a player to go out, not expecting it in this spot.

[00:20:14] But Christian, in your mind, where did Sierra go wrong?

[00:20:18] Well, I mean just let's start with the TV version of this, which is the show got gold this episode of setups and payoffs.

[00:20:28] Like not only did they have the confessionals of people saying, man, that Andy, we only keep him around.

[00:20:33] Basically, it's almost like the producer said, hey, could you say something that discounts the importance of Andy in this upcoming vote, please?

[00:20:39] Thank you, please.

[00:20:40] They had those.

[00:20:41] But then you had these extemporaneous moments where you just had Sam talking with Rachel and they were like, oh, I forgot about Andy.

[00:20:47] You're like, yeah, I do that too.

[00:20:49] Like they had these extemporaneous – so much material to go off of.

[00:20:52] And so part of that was us seeing Sierra discount Andy.

[00:20:58] And we saw that throughout the episode and even in things that weren't even highlighted, like Sierra got a chance to give chocolate and peanut butter.

[00:21:05] We'll get to the auction soon.

[00:21:09] But I'm thinking like, do you give it to Andy?

[00:21:12] No, no.

[00:21:12] She gave it to other people for reasons that probably made sense at the time.

[00:21:16] But I mean it's very – it's almost a classic – it's almost a classic thing that happens to a survivor player.

[00:21:24] You have an ally that you think is lock solid.

[00:21:26] You think that they're with you, but they don't feel like they're appreciated, so they leave.

[00:21:31] I was actually trying to think of a parallel for like Sierra and Andy.

[00:21:35] It's not perfect, but I think it hits some of the right emotional notes.

[00:21:39] It's actually like Cochran and Whitney, Whitney Duncan.

[00:21:46] Like in the sort of like – you know, like Cochran felt disrespected by his alliance.

[00:21:50] Same thing here with Andy.

[00:21:52] And I have a feeling that Sierra is going to be some shade of Whitney Duncan type mad.

[00:21:58] Yes, I agree with that, by the way.

[00:22:00] And I also wonder if Andy's winning prospects might be really diminished after tonight because that – you know, I try to pay attention to who's the mayor of Ponderosa.

[00:22:14] And Sierra even said in her parting words tonight that she's looking forward to her duties on the jury and she's going to take her job very seriously.

[00:22:24] And she – her, I think, and Sam are probably big mad with Andy.

[00:22:30] I do wonder, especially after, you know, shameless plug for I Stand Cagayan, where Chaos Cass, you know, talks about like the power of the mayor of Ponderosa in terms of –

[00:22:44] and certainly a job that she ends up having in Survivor Second Chance, you really do have the ability to shape the narrative on the jury.

[00:22:55] I am very worried about Andy's winning prospects.

[00:22:59] I don't know if this is something that you could really think about like in the game as like, okay, well, I don't want to like blindside Sierra this hard in this spot.

[00:23:09] It gives her too much power over the control of the jury.

[00:23:11] But I do think for Andy, I think he's going to have a real uphill battle in the final three winning over this jury.

[00:23:19] Yeah, I would tend to agree.

[00:23:21] And you actually took the words right out of my mouth, Rob.

[00:23:22] I thought I was going to have a clever plug for I Stand Cagayan for that exact thing that Cass talked about.

[00:23:27] Which you were wonderful in.

[00:23:28] Oh, thank you.

[00:23:29] Thank you very much.

[00:23:30] I enjoyed aping off of some of your insights from Involition of Strategy for that.

[00:23:35] But when it comes to Andy, I mean, in a way, I was kind of glad to see Andy get something he wanted because, I mean, I know we're supposed to laugh at all the things that go wrong for him hilariously over and over again.

[00:23:49] The camera people have to be like, how much material do we have?

[00:23:52] What's left on the cutting room floor of Andy?

[00:23:54] I want to know of all these things.

[00:23:57] Release the Andy cut.

[00:23:59] There's got to be a lot there.

[00:24:01] And Andy, though, he very clearly wants to take public credit for all of these blindsides.

[00:24:09] I actually haven't seen someone more overtly say, oh, yeah, that blindside that I did was sure was great.

[00:24:17] And we in the edit.

[00:24:19] See if he gets a fishy tomorrow.

[00:24:21] Yeah.

[00:24:21] Or Friday.

[00:24:22] Friday.

[00:24:23] We'll find out.

[00:24:24] We'll place your bets, folks.

[00:24:25] Place your bets.

[00:24:26] And when it comes to what we see, we see who gets the ball rolling on this move.

[00:24:33] It seems to be Genevieve gets the ball rolling on this.

[00:24:36] And so I can only imagine the other players are thinking based on what we know if they're like, yeah, let Andy claim publicly responsibility for this move.

[00:24:47] But the people that we know around us that matter for our votes know what's going on.

[00:24:52] And that's not necessarily good for him.

[00:24:54] Yeah, I do think that he could be like a cat's paw to some degree of like being the person who is like taking some of the flack from the Sierra types about this move.

[00:25:07] And I think that's not going to be the real benefits.

[00:25:13] But I do want to go back to Sierra and Sam.

[00:25:16] And I think that they made a couple of missteps along the way.

[00:25:22] And tell me what you think about.

[00:25:24] I want to go back to the Annika vote.

[00:25:27] And Sam and Annika seem to be butting heads.

[00:25:31] Sierra was in the real like as Penner would say, the was it the was either the pivot vote?

[00:25:44] The fulcrum vote.

[00:25:45] Fulcrum vote.

[00:25:45] Fulcrum vote.

[00:25:46] Thank you.

[00:25:46] I drew a blank.

[00:25:48] It's OK.

[00:25:48] It was like 10 plus years ago, Rob.

[00:25:50] It's all right.

[00:25:51] Yeah.

[00:25:51] And so she was in a spot where she could really could have decided what happened.

[00:25:55] And they decided to keep Andy and then get rid of Annika.

[00:26:00] I really think that, you know, look, I know Sam was going to be a threatening target coming into the merge no matter what.

[00:26:10] But I think they really made the wrong decision going back from that vote to vote out Annika instead of Andy.

[00:26:17] It is the classic conundrum of trying to read how reliable is this ally.

[00:26:25] Right. And which is the evidence that we saw?

[00:26:28] There are lots of things to be like, well, Andy did have that episode one explosion at the tribal council.

[00:26:38] Yeah.

[00:26:38] That would normally be a pretty emotional moment, emotional moment.

[00:26:41] Right.

[00:26:41] And which would ordinarily forebode like, can we rely upon this vote?

[00:26:47] But it seems like I guess maybe to Andy's credit, he came across he stabilized himself enough in front of this audience to make himself look useful to them.

[00:26:58] And I honestly I mean, there are two sides of these coins.

[00:27:01] A lot of times we will say, hey, this person saved this person by not voting them out.

[00:27:07] But it's easy to not look at like the other side of the coin.

[00:27:11] What did Andy or people who got saved do to put themselves in that position?

[00:27:17] And and so I do I feel like on some level I have to give some kind of credit to Andy there.

[00:27:23] But I would agree with you.

[00:27:25] Certainly, I think it bit them in the behind in a way that I feel like the Annika giving Annika in would be less likely to do, especially given how how surprised she was that she would have been taken out by these people.

[00:27:37] It seemed like she would have been maybe a tighter vote with them.

[00:27:40] Yeah, especially also because Sam and Sierra, it seems like that they really wanted to work with Rachel.

[00:27:46] It seemed like that they prefer having Rachel as like the third person with them over Andy.

[00:27:52] And it doesn't really seem that close.

[00:27:54] Maybe for Sam, he was feeling like, OK, well, I'm kind of I'm I'm in the fourth spot with Annika and Rachel and Sierra going into the merge.

[00:28:04] And I don't really like that positioning.

[00:28:07] But in some ways, I think it makes Sam less threatening in terms of like, oh, the three women of Gata.

[00:28:14] That's something that we have to worry about a little bit.

[00:28:16] Oh, we need to break up the Gata women.

[00:28:19] And I think in a little bit of a way, it could have been like a meat shield for Sam coming into the merge.

[00:28:24] Yeah, I think that that's Sam's theory of the case.

[00:28:28] I think for him playing the game is not one where he gives up power to not appear to be a threat.

[00:28:36] It does not seem to have that.

[00:28:37] That does not seem to be how he operates.

[00:28:40] It seems like he wants to have a direct say in what happens and having more people who are might be more loyal to each other than him is a threat that he would rather stomp out early, even if that means he's poking his head up higher.

[00:28:54] That that might just be how he operates.

[00:28:57] There are people who want direct control over an alliance.

[00:29:01] And I that would be my guess.

[00:29:02] Yeah.

[00:29:05] So can we talk through winners and losers of this vote tonight?

[00:29:11] OK, and non Gata.

[00:29:13] I want to talk through some of the winners and losers from the alliance of eight.

[00:29:19] I feel like that one of the big winners tonight was Saul.

[00:29:22] Oh, yeah.

[00:29:23] This is a great episode for Saul.

[00:29:25] Yeah.

[00:29:25] I mean, I mean, the Social Security Administration, I think, is like Chekhov's gun for this for this season right now.

[00:29:32] I mean, it was kind of just floated in and out and it could have just been a witty line that they included.

[00:29:36] There are two Chekhov's guns.

[00:29:38] I got these seemingly less important things that could show up later.

[00:29:41] And that's a big one.

[00:29:44] In fact, I mean, the the idea that he could have a secret alliance with Rachel and whoever his others what secret agents are.

[00:29:54] Yeah.

[00:29:54] I'm guessing Kyle's on that list.

[00:29:56] I just get a feeling Kyle's one of them.

[00:29:58] And anybody that's seen the Karate Kid, I think.

[00:30:00] I guess that the Karate Kid alliance.

[00:30:02] OK, I won't do the K alliance.

[00:30:04] All right.

[00:30:04] So but the but when it comes.

[00:30:07] But what a fun alliance that would be.

[00:30:09] Number one, those three.

[00:30:11] I think that it would be hard.

[00:30:13] I'd be hard pressed to think of an alliance.

[00:30:14] I'd be more excited to see in the last several years of the show than those three working together across tribal lines, by the way, coming in.

[00:30:23] So he's I think he can plausibly go back to Rachel and say, look, I couldn't include you in that vote.

[00:30:29] But I made sure that whenever your name came up, it got shifted away, which is true.

[00:30:34] It's true.

[00:30:35] And so he got to keep the person he wanted with him.

[00:30:39] He got the target out that he wanted.

[00:30:41] He's starting to build credibility on the DL with some folks that if for whatever reason they get pitched to the jury, they can go on to the jury.

[00:30:50] It's like, no, you didn't see the things that Saul was doing out there.

[00:30:53] He was actually more active than you ever saw.

[00:30:55] Did you know he did this?

[00:30:56] Did you know he did that?

[00:30:57] And he's a likable guy.

[00:30:58] People might want to believe that he was a power player.

[00:31:02] Yeah. So Saul sends the advantage to Rachel and then he tells her about it in this episode.

[00:31:09] And I was debating on the podcast last week whether or not Saul should say anything.

[00:31:13] Did you like Saul telling Rachel that he saves her?

[00:31:16] I think in this spot it made sense.

[00:31:18] I mean, it's it would only be a problem if Saul suspected that Rachel was going to throw him under the bus.

[00:31:26] But that didn't make a lot of sense, I think, from his from the positioning there.

[00:31:30] I think I mean, the idea I would long to see a true like stealth cross tribal alliance emerging.

[00:31:38] We've like on one of these seasons that that that just like from characters that would you would not expect to be like ringleaders of an alliance like that.

[00:31:47] I'm sorry. I know I'm talking about how much how exciting that would be.

[00:31:51] But I think it sets him up well because I don't think anyone's coming for Saul like what a power player because of this.

[00:31:57] But he but if he if he manages that trajectory correctly based upon what we see, I mean, is it crazy to think that he could come out as a winner from this?

[00:32:05] I don't think that's crazy. I don't think that's crazy at all.

[00:32:07] I need to see more. But I think that he's definitely improved his position.

[00:32:11] Yeah. Yeah. At this current state. Yeah. But like I think how many seasons of the show have we seen where like going into the last couple of episodes?

[00:32:18] You're like, oh, this person doesn't really have a case.

[00:32:20] Then all of a sudden the show decides to show us exactly what we need to see. Right.

[00:32:23] And it really takes off. He's definitely within that reachability condition that we could see.

[00:32:28] So anyway, to me, that's not crazy at all.

[00:32:29] Yeah. And then Saul is able to keep Rachel safe again tonight where Rachel's name is coming up.

[00:32:37] And so I was like, no, no, no, no. I work too hard to save Rachel last week.

[00:32:42] I can't let her go. And, you know, I don't know if these things are like scientifically proven or if they're sort of like old wives tales.

[00:32:51] But I think there's like a story where it's like a Ben Franklin, like like ask somebody to borrow a dollar.

[00:33:00] And if they give it to you, they they like you more because now they are invested.

[00:33:05] They have to like justify in their brain. Well, they they did already did some.

[00:33:10] They did something nice for you and they have to justify why they do this nice thing for you.

[00:33:15] So now in their mind that you're instantly more likable to them because they have done you a favor.

[00:33:21] And now Saul is just like he saved her last week.

[00:33:24] And now he's just like, oh, I got to keep sticking my neck out for Rachel.

[00:33:28] I'm pot committed. There's actually studies on this, Rob.

[00:33:31] I actually know a little I'm not an expert in this subject, but I know a little bit about it from reading a book called 59 Seconds.

[00:33:37] It's about it's about quick psychological tricks to do stuff in your life.

[00:33:41] And so the studies, what that they would do to validate this is like you would go to like a museum.

[00:33:46] They would have people sign up for a study and they was like, oh, go meet this person at a museum.

[00:33:51] And you go around a museum together. And it's all a set up because the person you're going to meet is, of course, a confederate of the experimenters.

[00:33:58] And they would do a thing where where the person who's a plant for the experimenters would occasionally would sometimes ask a person for a favor.

[00:34:07] Oh, can you lend me a dollar in order to pay for like a drink at the museum or something?

[00:34:12] And then they were more likely to give other favors in the future because you had to because and it's my understanding of the literature, which is very shallow, that the cognitive dissonance of saying I did this one nice thing for a person.

[00:34:27] But I actually don't like them and wouldn't do it again prevents people from from not to giving them another favor.

[00:34:33] That's my understanding of the phenomenon that you're talking about.

[00:34:36] So I think there is something there to that.

[00:34:38] And so and they're just really they just seem to also have a natural chemistry.

[00:34:44] Yes, that's on top of all that.

[00:34:46] So I mean, great.

[00:34:46] A good bond, a loser of this vote out of Sierra, I think is teeny.

[00:34:54] I think that teeny does not have a lot of like I think that people like teeny, but I don't think that teeny really commands a lot of the agency of this group.

[00:35:08] Like, I think that teeny said, hey, I like Sierra the best.

[00:35:13] I want to keep Sierra.

[00:35:15] I would do Sam.

[00:35:16] Sam is the person I would do.

[00:35:18] And it seemed that teeny's opinions were not really factored into the final discussion.

[00:35:25] I mean, I didn't pick up on teeny's change in position as a result of that, but I definitely noted what you talked about.

[00:35:31] Because he wanted to teeny.

[00:35:32] It was like, hey, great news.

[00:35:34] Like, let's let's work with with Gata.

[00:35:38] That's right.

[00:35:38] And and Genevieve is like, I'd rather work with Tuku.

[00:35:44] There I mean, if we're looking at people who are seemingly getting their way in the in the negotiations, that's actually a pretty good proxy for who has the power.

[00:35:55] Yeah.

[00:35:55] Now that, of course, then can can wrap back around on you if people notice that.

[00:35:59] Right.

[00:35:59] But Genevieve certainly seems to be the instigator of a lot of a lot of these cross tribal things.

[00:36:05] Teeny's lucky that they got looped into the vote like teeny could have been blindsided with the Gatas here.

[00:36:12] No, I mean, I mean, we're looking at the numbers.

[00:36:14] I mean, especially given once Sam didn't have a vote.

[00:36:19] Right.

[00:36:20] Then you didn't need as many.

[00:36:21] They didn't expect Rachel to play their player shot in the dark necessarily.

[00:36:25] But there was enough of a wiggle room that, yeah, she could have been.

[00:36:30] I think that.

[00:36:31] Yeah.

[00:36:32] I mean, basically, I think the thing about Genevieve, I imagine she doesn't want to give the impression to Saul and Teeny that that that Genevieve is looking to start cannibalizing the Lavos post getting rid of Rome.

[00:36:45] That would be my guess.

[00:36:46] So, like, why why ruffle more feathers on this vote?

[00:36:49] But I definitely see.

[00:36:50] I mean, additionally, another point on Teeny.

[00:36:52] And again, it's hard for me.

[00:36:54] It's hard to read the politics exactly.

[00:36:56] But I'll note a general.

[00:36:57] For a lot of people.

[00:37:00] Indeed, Rob.

[00:37:01] Indeed.

[00:37:03] And when when it comes to Teeny or like when you or anyone.

[00:37:09] Actually, today it's pretty easy.

[00:37:12] But when it comes to when it comes to anybody pushing a vote that doesn't go through, there can be there can be blowback from that.

[00:37:23] Who was pushing for who?

[00:37:25] Because Sam is going to be on the warpath trying to figure out what happened.

[00:37:28] We've got a little bit of that at the end.

[00:37:30] And so if he finds out that who was pushing for him, that's not going to bode well, potentially for Teeny.

[00:37:35] And if there's ever a counter move of who, oh, who do we throw under the bus?

[00:37:38] Well, Sam's going to want to, if not Andy, try to throw, try to vote out Teeny.

[00:37:43] That's a possibility.

[00:37:44] Yeah.

[00:37:44] One other quick winner, I think, from this vote.

[00:37:47] Gabe was really pushing.

[00:37:50] Sierra is the head of the snake, he tells us.

[00:37:53] Yeah.

[00:37:54] So, I mean, really.

[00:37:55] I mean, but I will say that, you know, if you could argue that Genevieve and other people and Genevieve and Caroline were both trying to push for.

[00:38:04] For Rachel in that vote and didn't get it.

[00:38:07] But I think that how, what they got instead was maybe more in line with their aims.

[00:38:12] Maybe that's what you're implying.

[00:38:14] And so, but yeah, Gabe definitely got who he was pushing for.

[00:38:18] Well, but honestly, but, you know, in the previous vote, Gabe also wanted to get rid of Rachel.

[00:38:23] Obviously, that was the available target.

[00:38:25] So, I don't know.

[00:38:27] I think it's the people who are really trying to push for Sam.

[00:38:31] That's going to probably cause more trouble.

[00:38:34] Will be my guest.

[00:38:35] Okay.

[00:38:35] Let's talk about the auction.

[00:38:37] The auction is back.

[00:38:39] And this is a wild auction.

[00:38:41] Christian, you know, the auction was gone for so long.

[00:38:44] We brought it back in Survivor 45.

[00:38:46] Did a lot of things to try to, like, fix the auction.

[00:38:52] And we put a lot more stuff into the auction tonight.

[00:38:56] Yeah, we did.

[00:38:57] We did.

[00:38:58] I mostly love this auction.

[00:39:01] I want to say that up front because I don't want to be a nitpicker, but I will nitpick.

[00:39:05] But like, so, I mean, a lot of things, again, they're getting right.

[00:39:09] One, that there is an auction.

[00:39:11] It's fun.

[00:39:12] It's fun.

[00:39:13] Fun.

[00:39:14] One, also, no explicit advantages will be given as a thing that you are bidding on explicitly.

[00:39:22] Great.

[00:39:22] I will point out, though, that I think last time in 45, Jeff explicitly said there will be no advantage.

[00:39:30] Right?

[00:39:31] And this time he did not say that because there was.

[00:39:34] Or if he didn't say it.

[00:39:35] If it was, maybe it could have also got cut out.

[00:39:36] Well, but either way, it was hidden in one.

[00:39:38] In a way, that would be a Jeff lie.

[00:39:40] And then Danny McRae would just explode with his head if he was lying again.

[00:39:44] So, but the, and I think that, so there's that.

[00:39:50] And I think that that's a good choice because then people don't hoard their money.

[00:39:54] And overall, it's fun.

[00:39:55] I also like how it's a little bit more transparent in terms of how many items are going to be.

[00:40:00] As this used to be kind of arbitrary, which I think from a gameplay standpoint, the players have an idea.

[00:40:04] They could do some math in their head as to how long they should do, how long they should hold on for their money.

[00:40:09] Yeah.

[00:40:10] We don't need them to lose their votes, in my opinion, because they're just, we see what the consequence of it is.

[00:40:16] They just spend all their money.

[00:40:18] There's no bidding war.

[00:40:19] It's literally like, I'll spend this.

[00:40:21] I'll, I'll spend more.

[00:40:22] Oh, you got it.

[00:40:25] That's it.

[00:40:26] So get rid of that.

[00:40:27] It's already, I think you've improved it significantly more.

[00:40:31] I think that the other challenge is there's so much stuff.

[00:40:34] Like how many gimmicks were in this?

[00:40:36] There was so much stuff going on in there.

[00:40:37] And again, like I don't want to complain about the auction either.

[00:40:40] The auction was, was very fun.

[00:40:42] Yes.

[00:40:43] That if I, if I had any complaints, it would be like, yeah, I don't know if you need to lose your vote.

[00:40:48] It doesn't really bother me.

[00:40:49] I'm not like up in arms about it, but in addition to, okay.

[00:40:53] So we had the auction, we brought it back.

[00:40:55] Okay.

[00:40:55] First you got to find your money.

[00:40:56] And then of course the person who has the most money left at the end of the auction, that person's going to lose their vote.

[00:41:03] Now you're going to have covered items sometimes in the auction and in the covered items.

[00:41:08] Sometimes you're going to bid on something and then you're going to get money back.

[00:41:12] We got a new, they call it a survivor cash back program where you're going to get money back at different points during the auction.

[00:41:21] This is like on press your luck when they get like a, Oh, $2,000 and a spin.

[00:41:27] Like, Oh no, I got another spin.

[00:41:29] I have to use.

[00:41:30] Yeah.

[00:41:30] And I, and I, the reason why, look, I, I also don't want to nitpick as I, as I said, but the reason why I, I, one of the reasons that it's, it's problematic for an auction to have this incentive to spend all your money.

[00:41:42] It's part of the fun of the auction is the bidding, the bidding war, right?

[00:41:46] There, there's a, there, there is a pressure to bid enough to win the auction, but not so much.

[00:41:50] You don't have any money left.

[00:41:51] Now you want to get rid of your money.

[00:41:53] I bet you could plot what, how many bids are made per purchase at this auction compared to 45 compared to all the previous ones is way less.

[00:42:01] It's not even an auction because I feel like that in that.

[00:42:05] Okay.

[00:42:05] The auction is everybody in the old auction, everybody has $500.

[00:42:10] I was like, okay.

[00:42:11] So Jeff brings out like, okay, it's a, we've got a sandwich.

[00:42:15] It's like, all right, I'll do a hundred for the sandwich.

[00:42:17] Like 120, 140.

[00:42:18] So here, 160.

[00:42:20] Okay.

[00:42:20] 180.

[00:42:21] Okay.

[00:42:22] Like we're going to see how much are people willing to put in for the sandwich that really people only bid against each other on the first five items.

[00:42:31] Because then once we get to the, then it's like, all right, now the auction could end at any point.

[00:42:35] And whoever has the most money loses their vote.

[00:42:37] So the person, it's just like, you just take turns.

[00:42:39] Whoever has the most money just goes all in.

[00:42:42] Like there's no, I don't think that there was one point after item five where there was a multiple bid on something where Jeff, Jeff brought something out.

[00:42:51] Uh, like maybe that they could do like sort of like, like borderline gross stuff that people like, I'd do $20 for that.

[00:43:00] That's the other thing.

[00:43:01] If it's not, a lot of them were, were, were covered and some covered is great.

[00:43:05] That, that adds, that's some variance to it.

[00:43:06] And he does the sort of the little switcheroo thing that he got to do with Gabe.

[00:43:09] There, a lot of the stuff was good.

[00:43:11] Again, great.

[00:43:12] I, so, but I think that we want the bidding and I think there's just minor tweaks.

[00:43:17] We'll get us fun bidding like that.

[00:43:18] And, and I think that, I mean, how many gimmicks did they have this time?

[00:43:21] I mean, the gross food challenge broke out.

[00:43:24] It happened in the middle of it.

[00:43:26] And look, I think any one of those things is great.

[00:43:29] Classic auction.

[00:43:30] And they're like, let's do all the things.

[00:43:32] And I think they wanted to kind of fill up like what could it be up to 15 of these, of these things.

[00:43:38] So that's, that's a lot.

[00:43:40] That's a lot.

[00:43:41] Okay.

[00:43:43] And we had Rachel also get the fries that had the hidden clue in it also.

[00:43:47] So, so there was a lot going on in the auction.

[00:43:50] Yeah.

[00:43:50] All right.

[00:43:51] What was most enticing to you, Christian?

[00:43:55] Oh, to eat?

[00:43:56] Yes.

[00:43:56] Well, I mean, well, to eat, I mean, a hamburger is great.

[00:44:02] The burger looked good.

[00:44:03] Yeah.

[00:44:03] I was fine.

[00:44:04] I was good with the burger.

[00:44:05] Jeff said that's a Survivor burger.

[00:44:07] Yeah.

[00:44:07] I'm not sure that that's the compliment he thinks it is to a lot of the Survivor players, but I'm not, I'm not, that is not my opinion.

[00:44:13] But that is the opinion of several people on the Twitters.

[00:44:19] But I think that when it comes to, well, funny thing about in Fiji is you order, so tip for if you go to Fiji, if you order a hamburger, they will bring you a slab of ham on a bun.

[00:44:30] That's what they will give you.

[00:44:31] So make sure you order a beef burger.

[00:44:33] Beef burger.

[00:44:33] I mean, so that would be the one thing I'd like probably want to enjoy to eat because also, also the fries, good calories.

[00:44:38] I will say, though, from how I would handle the food, just the calories part.

[00:44:44] I mean, peanut butter, if you can just like snarf down – like back in season 40 when Tyson got that jar of peanut butter, like I tried to compute the number of calories.

[00:44:54] That thing, like the dude could survive for days on that jar of peanut butter.

[00:44:58] There's just so many calories in that thing.

[00:45:00] So that's how I handled food when I would eat.

[00:45:03] Like I got to go over to Pizza Reward and there were so many damn breadsticks, so many.

[00:45:08] And I just – it was a challenge to make sure I just – I got as many calories as I could.

[00:45:13] We had a situation with Kyle and the chicken wings.

[00:45:17] Kyle, that he was vegan and then he became a vegetarian so that he could eat more things on Survivor.

[00:45:28] But he kind of got boxed in.

[00:45:30] If you're Kyle, what are you doing bidding on the covered item?

[00:45:37] I feel like, hey, oh, I have a dietary restriction.

[00:45:41] And we've seen this with Ethan back in Survivor Africa at the auction.

[00:45:44] But if you have a certain dietary restriction, I would avoid – there's lots of items.

[00:45:50] I would avoid the covered item.

[00:45:53] I mean, ideally, yes.

[00:45:54] But the limited stock of these things and the high pressure to spend all your money, it's not even just a missed opportunity of not eating.

[00:46:01] They take away your vote, right?

[00:46:02] But this was item four.

[00:46:04] Yeah, it was item four.

[00:46:06] But keep in mind, in these people's mind, at item six, there could be nothing more.

[00:46:11] Like five was the last one, right?

[00:46:12] So there's only one more after that.

[00:46:15] And so if you really value your vote, I mean there's a one in ten chance that you have the most money and you're out.

[00:46:25] I forget what a money total is.

[00:46:27] But I think, again, another one of the reasons that people are less picky.

[00:46:30] They just throw down their money.

[00:46:31] Yes, I'll take anything.

[00:46:32] I would.

[00:46:32] I would be like, OK, item number one.

[00:46:35] Yes, done.

[00:46:36] OK, I got my food.

[00:46:37] I'm out.

[00:46:37] That's what I would do.

[00:46:38] So Jeff is bringing the trays in and out.

[00:46:42] And Jeff was on one.

[00:46:44] He was having a lot of fun.

[00:46:47] He's like walking in and like carrying the tray.

[00:46:50] I think that Emily, it was Emily Flippen, I think, got in his head in Survivor 45.

[00:46:56] She called out.

[00:46:57] She's like, that's the margarita.

[00:46:59] Look how he's holding the tray.

[00:47:00] And so now Jeff is like really like playing up when he has the tray of like, oh, do I have?

[00:47:06] Is there something that could spill here?

[00:47:08] I don't know.

[00:47:10] Yeah, that's definitely a reaction to Emily Flippen calling about it.

[00:47:14] He he very clearly overreacts or say or I say reacts strongly to a recent thing that's happened to make sure he is not criticized for the same thing again.

[00:47:23] I get it.

[00:47:24] It's a common human phenomenon.

[00:47:25] Yeah.

[00:47:25] I think the thing, though, that was really I was I was watching and I turned my head for like a little bit.

[00:47:31] I regret it because I didn't realize like Alan Cumming came on to the show.

[00:47:37] Yeah.

[00:47:37] So like I heard Alan Cumming and it was Alan Cumming doing an impression of Jeff Probst doing an impression of Mr. Belvedere.

[00:47:46] What did he say?

[00:47:48] He was like, if I was doing Shakespeare in the park, maybe I would talk like this.

[00:47:55] Jeff is a creative man.

[00:47:57] It actually sounds a little bit like when if you ever listen on the on fire podcast, when Jeff does an impression of Mark Burnett.

[00:48:08] That's funny.

[00:48:09] I didn't put that together.

[00:48:10] But it was funny how like he didn't couldn't even quite commit to the bit.

[00:48:16] At some point, just started dropping out of the accent entirely like mid sentence.

[00:48:19] I'm like, I think I get it.

[00:48:21] You're you're performing on the fly.

[00:48:22] It's live improv on camera.

[00:48:24] But, you know, it's it was fun.

[00:48:28] It was fun.

[00:48:29] I mean, there was a good there's a good time.

[00:48:31] The salt apple pie looked delicious.

[00:48:35] If I went to a Thanksgiving dinner and somebody had the salt apple pie with the Survivor 47 whipped cream on it.

[00:48:43] Well, I was surprised how solid it was.

[00:48:46] See, my fear with any pie.

[00:48:47] Yeah.

[00:48:48] Yeah.

[00:48:48] So to speak, it's that any pie is, you know, is going to have some degree of moisture and it's not going to be it's not that it's not like a dry pie.

[00:48:58] Yeah, I would imagine.

[00:48:59] So I think that there's there there is an element that, you know, I don't believe that the the kitchen is just off camera cooking these things up.

[00:49:05] They must get transported somehow from location.

[00:49:08] I mean, I'm sure that that that some some some enterprising journalists could, you know, I bet Dalton Ross would would write an oral history of the pie, like how it got from, you know.

[00:49:20] I think that Jeff in 45 on the on fire podcast talked about how, like, they have all the food prepped and they have it like they want it like like the stuff that's supposed to be hot.

[00:49:31] That needs to be hot.

[00:49:32] The stuff that's supposed to be cold.

[00:49:33] They keep it cold.

[00:49:34] So that he made it like it's quite a production to keep the food appetizing for the auction.

[00:49:40] I'm sure it is.

[00:49:42] And I think that those are the and I think it's one of the great values of the of things like the on fire podcast and all of the little details that will go going into like a quality show that wants to make everything look right.

[00:49:53] I mean, like like I mean, there was there was I know this is different, but like the mud in the challenges, which yes, again, the nitpick.

[00:50:01] I'm with you.

[00:50:02] I don't want mud challenges.

[00:50:04] I don't know who these people are when they're slithered than mud.

[00:50:07] But if you're going to do mud like mud's a tricky, a tricky substrate.

[00:50:12] I mean, mud is a colloidal is a colloid and it like dries out and like and they get that all right.

[00:50:18] I mean, that's impressive.

[00:50:20] You know, other reality shows are just saying, just mud.

[00:50:22] Just go, go, go jump in the mud.

[00:50:25] That's it here.

[00:50:26] They, you know, they engineer that mud.

[00:50:27] I imagine like vetting the mud.

[00:50:30] It's like it's like, oh, I'm imagining Jeff with like the viscosity here.

[00:50:34] You know, it's it's it's it's it's 0.7 probes when it needs to be about 0.8 to 0.9 scale to be fair.

[00:50:40] Like, all right, Jeff, here's we have seven different flights of mud for you to review before they're like, oh, yeah, this is it.

[00:50:47] Three.

[00:50:48] Three is it.

[00:50:49] That's the mud.

[00:50:50] It has notes of Rome in this one.

[00:50:51] Yes.

[00:50:52] Yeah.

[00:50:53] Yeah.

[00:50:55] Let's talk about the gross food challenge.

[00:50:57] We have not seen the gross food.

[00:51:00] I want to say not since Ghost Island.

[00:51:06] Yeah, I think I think I'm trying to remember, but that's definitely I remember this vividly.

[00:51:10] The slug slugger.

[00:51:12] Well, this that episode was airing while we were filming on location and the production was always very careful to never let us know what was happening on the season that was currently airing.

[00:51:23] Probably because they were worried it was going to like spoil, like give a hint as to what challenges we could see.

[00:51:28] And like literally like that's one of the things that Jeff said to us during like our big, long six hour challenge was I can confirm to you the gross food challenge is back on season 30, 36.

[00:51:38] We're like, well, yeah, it's back.

[00:51:40] So at least I remember it was back on that season for sure.

[00:51:43] Yeah.

[00:51:43] So this was fun that they did.

[00:51:45] I was so gross when Sue was spitting the the is it boot talk?

[00:51:50] You know, I didn't look up the species before I got on here, but but but I what the thing I noticed mostly is when they revealed the the the grub and next to it were very conspicuously placed little lumps of black, you know, little black lumps, which I assume were its feces.

[00:52:09] And so that's why I assumed it was.

[00:52:11] I'm like, that's the thing I was like, that is that is excrement.

[00:52:15] I have to go back and look at that.

[00:52:19] But yeah, that was that was pretty incredible.

[00:52:23] Is there a strategy to the boot talk?

[00:52:27] I'm sure there is.

[00:52:28] I mean, I mean, well, you were present for there wasn't the was something like the boot talk when Matt out.

[00:52:33] So I don't know if it was exactly the same thing or what species it was.

[00:52:38] But in Survivor, the Amazon, we did have a gross a post merge gross, which I guess was like what they did in Ghost Island.

[00:52:45] And that the final task was Matthew and Dina were the two people left.

[00:52:53] And Jeff like took the thing off.

[00:52:55] Dina was not feeling vulnerable at all.

[00:52:59] And just like said to Matthew and he swallowed it whole and then was like pantomiming the thing crawling down his stomach.

[00:53:10] He said, I hope my digestive juices can handle this.

[00:53:14] I didn't know if that was in the show or not.

[00:53:17] I remember you were talking about that story.

[00:53:19] It's like so I'm curious how he reported that strategy as being effective.

[00:53:24] He certainly won.

[00:53:26] I remember even Dina was kind of like, yeah, yeah, it was fast, which is all that matters.

[00:53:31] And, you know, just to get into rules again, Jeff did, in fact, say to Sue, Sue, you have to get most of it down.

[00:53:39] It's like, oh, Jeff, really?

[00:53:40] So did you weigh these things beforehand?

[00:53:42] If I just eat 51 percent of this thing by weight, am I good?

[00:53:45] You know, so, you know, if you want to, you know, there's there's a challenge hack that they would never allow you to do.

[00:53:52] Yeah.

[00:53:52] OK, so how about Caroline?

[00:53:54] She gets to first she gets to eat the gross beetle and then she gets the fish eye.

[00:54:01] She's like racking up the calories on the gross food.

[00:54:06] She's going for the Jeremy Collins special on this where you just grab a little bit of the balloon, you know, just for fun.

[00:54:11] You know, it's you could do this right.

[00:54:16] Me personally?

[00:54:17] Yeah, I do.

[00:54:18] Look, look, as I got added by one Davey Rickenbacker this evening on watching this, he was like, it's like Christian and I did this for free.

[00:54:28] And it's true.

[00:54:29] He gives me more credit, though, like like we didn't eat the we ate all kinds of random things.

[00:54:34] My strategy was very simple.

[00:54:36] Davey would hand me a thing and I would eat the thing, you know.

[00:54:39] And so where did you do this?

[00:54:41] This was just on the beach.

[00:54:42] Davey is a well-known traveler, adventurer of the beach.

[00:54:46] And he would just find us critters to to just to cook and hand off to me to eat.

[00:54:53] He thought I think he thought it was funny or just or an experience.

[00:54:57] And I always said yes, I think.

[00:54:59] I think Davey ought to correct me if I ever said no.

[00:55:01] So but, you know, no, I remember there are all kinds of things that I mean, hermit crabs with the shell on.

[00:55:09] And it's just like I I remember biting into those things and the camera guy like visibly winced at the sound that it was making.

[00:55:18] And it was.

[00:55:19] Yeah, I don't know what happened to my digestive tract after that, but I'll I'll leave that story there and save it to, you know, for the patrons.

[00:55:27] Yeah.

[00:55:28] OK, the survivor breakfast and the pastry all looked very good.

[00:55:33] They do good stuff.

[00:55:34] I mean, look, look, I understand people are picky about things like pizza and stuff like on survive.

[00:55:38] I mean, I look, it's just calories.

[00:55:41] It's just calories out there.

[00:55:43] Everything looks at least.

[00:55:44] OK, to me, everything looks amazing.

[00:55:46] Some stuff was was I think ages better on Fiji than others.

[00:55:51] Like, oh, a pancake.

[00:55:52] Right.

[00:55:52] Grab a pancake.

[00:55:53] Look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, thick pancake.

[00:55:55] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:57] Now, I Jeff taking a bite of the peanut butter after, you know, everyone else has already dug into that peanut.

[00:56:04] But I hope that was swapped out.

[00:56:06] He just like did like a pinky.

[00:56:10] OK, fair enough.

[00:56:11] Fair enough.

[00:56:11] That was he was a little bit like he's like a guy in the evidence room.

[00:56:17] Like, oh, is this is this cocaine?

[00:56:19] Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:56:22] Yeah, I mean, sure.

[00:56:24] Sure. Sure.

[00:56:24] Look, not a lot of things gross me out.

[00:56:26] That's one of those things that kind of like it just hit me on that.

[00:56:29] On that note, we've talked about this before.

[00:56:30] I want to say I was at Survivor 45, which had that like kind of gross turkey chicken like reward or something like that.

[00:56:37] Bruce, Kendra and I think Mama J.

[00:56:41] They got they got a chicken with no utensils.

[00:56:46] In the art of filmmaking, there's something called Foley, as you know, Rob, where people make sounds off camera like in the studio.

[00:56:55] Not Dan Foley.

[00:56:55] Yeah.

[00:56:56] They totally add this stuff in.

[00:56:59] And I'm like, please don't.

[00:57:01] Like Rachel is biting a burger.

[00:57:04] You do not hear the burger being bit into that.

[00:57:07] And just they purposely pick this squishy sounding thing.

[00:57:10] I'm like, look, I get it.

[00:57:12] I get it.

[00:57:12] Your job is to enhance the experience for the audience.

[00:57:14] I think Sierra did comment on Saul's chips being crunchy.

[00:57:18] That tracks.

[00:57:19] I mean, chips are notoriously loud.

[00:57:21] Burgers are not known for their volume, Rob.

[00:57:23] Everyone knows this.

[00:57:24] Yeah.

[00:57:24] OK, let me take this question from Chaz.

[00:57:30] Did Sierra not picking Andy for chocolate and peanut butter seal her fate?

[00:57:34] You know, I was watching and I wondered that.

[00:57:37] But you got to think that they would have cut to a reaction shot of Andy.

[00:57:41] But they kind of yada yada straight through her choice.

[00:57:44] All right.

[00:57:45] So let me ask you something next level.

[00:57:47] All right.

[00:57:47] I want to talk about Andy.

[00:57:48] And we saw in the opening of the episode, Andy was depicted as, oh, hapless Andy can't even find any money for the auction.

[00:58:00] He's walking right past it.

[00:58:03] That was Andy potentially not looking for any auction money.

[00:58:11] I wouldn't put it.

[00:58:13] Was this an intentional Bruce?

[00:58:15] I wouldn't.

[00:58:18] I don't think that Andy did that.

[00:58:22] Not that he couldn't think of that strategy.

[00:58:23] I really think that he just when he panics, he doesn't step back and think.

[00:58:30] That's the way he described it.

[00:58:31] And I'll tell you, I as a man around the house who will lose things constantly and in a panic, in a rush, I'll be like, oh, my God, where's my keys?

[00:58:42] And Emily will be like, they're in your office, on your desk.

[00:58:46] She somehow has a GPS on them.

[00:58:50] But I'm happy to entertain the potential for it and what that means.

[00:58:54] And here is why I would say that.

[00:58:56] Because maybe Andy goes out there.

[00:58:59] He starts looking for money for the auction.

[00:59:01] Doesn't instantly find any.

[00:59:04] Sees other people are doing well.

[00:59:07] And sort of realizes, hey, I'm better off to have zero dollars at the auction than to have $120 at the auction.

[00:59:17] So, OK, I want to dig in with this, Rob.

[00:59:20] Now, we now have seen the episode and Jeff now calls it a new era survivor auction, which in the history of the show, we now know the rules of the new era auction are always the same.

[00:59:31] The one time they did it, that that is that if you are left with the most money, you lose your vote.

[00:59:37] But are we supposed to assume?

[00:59:41] I mean, Andy, I would bet would know this fact and might assume that fact.

[00:59:46] It does.

[00:59:47] I do wonder if we are supposed to assume that fact.

[00:59:51] Imagine if we're players out there, Rob, right?

[00:59:53] Like, are we supposed to assume that because Jeff did it once, it is therefore tradition and will be done again?

[01:00:00] Yeah, I think so.

[01:00:01] I think that everybody is a super fan.

[01:00:03] It's a similar setup of go out and find the money for the auction.

[01:00:08] So I think they're all operating under the same idea that it's going to be the same rules as the Survivor 45 auction.

[01:00:13] So I could I could see it entering into his mind.

[01:00:16] It's definitely if you get to a point where like, oh, like I bet legitimately for a while he was trying.

[01:00:22] And I think all the way through, I mean, do you need me?

[01:00:27] People want to eat, you know.

[01:00:29] And they know there's uneven quantities of money.

[01:00:32] And I mean, Andy also, I just look at it like his personality traits when he's playing these challenges.

[01:00:37] It's not like he's throw.

[01:00:39] I don't see evidence of him throwing a challenge strategically.

[01:00:43] I think he wants the validation of showing how well he can do.

[01:00:46] It's probably frustrating for him that he can't.

[01:00:48] In that moment, he didn't, at least.

[01:00:49] So this weekend, I went to UNC and we had a really nice event that CBS put on.

[01:00:57] And so I was moderating or hosting the panel.

[01:01:04] And Christian, the thing that we got to do when we screened this episode was that the people who set up the event for CBS,

[01:01:15] they hid some, they hid advantages around the room under people's chairs.

[01:01:25] And then eight students found the advantages and got to come up and participate in our own survivor auction.

[01:01:37] Well, that's fun.

[01:01:39] How did that?

[01:01:39] So what were the items?

[01:01:41] What happened?

[01:01:41] What went down?

[01:01:43] They came up.

[01:01:43] This was the rules of the auction that I participated in at UNC.

[01:01:47] And I think that they'll probably share some of these clips on the Survivor Instagram account.

[01:01:52] I felt a little bad.

[01:01:54] I got the students up there.

[01:01:57] And so they all had their advantage.

[01:01:59] And then there were envelopes.

[01:02:00] And inside the envelopes was the play money that they were going to bid on for the auction.

[01:02:05] So we started handing out the envelopes.

[01:02:08] And I had said that, all right, students,

[01:02:13] in one of these envelopes is going to be your entire tuition to UNC paid for.

[01:02:22] The room blew up.

[01:02:23] I'm joking.

[01:02:24] I'm joking.

[01:02:25] Is this Scott's tots in real life that we saw?

[01:02:28] Is that the reference?

[01:02:32] I don't.

[01:02:33] What is Scott's tots?

[01:02:34] Oh, it's an infamous episode of The Office where he went to a room full of school,

[01:02:42] children decades ago saying, I'm paying for all.

[01:02:45] If you graduate from high school, I will pay for all your tuition.

[01:02:49] And years later, they had started up a foundation called Scott's tots that apparently he was

[01:02:53] supposed to fund and he forgot all about it.

[01:02:55] So, yeah, it's a but loud groans for that.

[01:03:02] So they bid on the other survivors came in and brought that brought in like an item.

[01:03:09] And sometimes it was a covered item.

[01:03:11] And there were some buffs and there were like a couple of food items.

[01:03:17] But the coup de grace, Christian, was that we had the actual gavel and block from the auction.

[01:03:28] Again, Jeff's gavel and block from Fiji came to UNC and I used it.

[01:03:36] I hosted the auction with Jeff's gavel.

[01:03:41] That's crazy.

[01:03:42] I mean, that's honestly, that's really cool.

[01:03:45] I mean, more.

[01:03:46] I mean, think about the logistics of that.

[01:03:48] I mean, how much stuff comes back and forth to Fiji and then gets all the way out from wherever

[01:03:54] is stored in L.A.?

[01:03:55] And that was the final item at the auction was that we auctioned off the actual gavel and

[01:04:05] auction block.

[01:04:06] Someone got to take that home like that's theirs?

[01:04:08] Yeah, we gave it away on Saturday.

[01:04:10] That's really cool.

[01:04:11] Like, that's genuinely cool.

[01:04:12] I thought you'd be like, you know, it's a survivor sticker, you know, like that.

[01:04:15] Like, I don't know.

[01:04:15] Not that that's my standard for just free giveaways.

[01:04:18] It's just a random thing.

[01:04:19] But that's great.

[01:04:20] That's really cool.

[01:04:20] Yeah.

[01:04:21] So, yeah, I don't know if you could see, you know, here's my son, Anthony, with the actual

[01:04:30] gavel.

[01:04:32] Yeah, we weren't supposed to share any pictures before tonight, but it was a really cool part

[01:04:39] of the event.

[01:04:39] It probably just has small microbes of that grub feces on it, Rob.

[01:04:43] So like you just it's a yeah.

[01:04:45] So there it's a it's a it's it's a relic.

[01:04:48] And what was impressive was like, I don't know if Jeff does it or in like production,

[01:04:55] but somebody like really banged the hell out of it.

[01:04:58] Like there was like, you know, like big like you could marks in the thing where it just has

[01:05:03] just been hammered the hell out of it.

[01:05:06] I just assume that's just that hard in the episode.

[01:05:10] So I don't know if they're just like testing it or what.

[01:05:12] But that's just John Kierhofer taking blown off some steam in between.

[01:05:15] Take some.

[01:05:16] Maybe.

[01:05:16] Yeah, maybe.

[01:05:18] So.

[01:05:19] A couple of other things from the episode, we got our double immunity challenge of for

[01:05:28] hold on.

[01:05:29] We did this challenge back to back.

[01:05:31] We did this in season 46.

[01:05:32] Also, this was, you know, Charlie talking about the grip strength.

[01:05:36] Sue and Kyle win individual immunity.

[01:05:41] Yeah, I mean, and I like the way that Kyle put his position.

[01:05:45] This is great.

[01:05:46] This is great.

[01:05:47] But I hate it.

[01:05:48] It's like, you know, it's a you know, it would be the death of me tomorrow.

[01:05:52] I mean, it's it's very we've said in many ways how, you know, doing well can make you

[01:05:57] a threat and therefore you'd be knocked out.

[01:05:58] And it was a very cute and endearing way that he said it.

[01:06:01] And Sue, you know, got her inspirational story about doing it for her generation, for the

[01:06:06] entire generation.

[01:06:07] That's not not since Banu did it for the billions in India that I feel like there's one one person

[01:06:14] has represented so many on Survivor, but though great for Sue.

[01:06:16] Great for Sue.

[01:06:17] Yeah, it was a nice moment for Sue, for sure.

[01:06:22] We haven't talked about Rachel's idol clue and Rachel's idol clue.

[01:06:26] This was a tricky one.

[01:06:28] The idol is hidden inside the tarp.

[01:06:32] Christian, what is your best guess of how does production pull this off?

[01:06:37] Do they did production give the Survivor contestants a tarp that has an idol in it to

[01:06:44] start?

[01:06:45] I, I think no would be my guess.

[01:06:51] Definitely we can just from watching the show know that the production is up to all kinds

[01:06:56] of shenanigans when the survivors are off the beach.

[01:06:59] I mean, think about all the money that they had to hide, which, you know, for the auction

[01:07:04] and Caroline had to come back and, and very naturally say, Hey, everybody, why don't we

[01:07:11] go over here?

[01:07:12] And, and, and, and introduce everyone to go find the money.

[01:07:15] So I think that these, and also specifically, I think in terms of timing, they, this is part

[01:07:22] of the hide and re-hide, an advantage sort of thing.

[01:07:28] This was the re-hide presumably of, of when the, I forget what was played last, the safety

[01:07:35] without power was played at the previous tribal would be my guess.

[01:07:37] Mm-hmm.

[01:07:38] Okay.

[01:07:39] So do they sew an idol into the, um, tarp while everybody's at the auction?

[01:07:48] Um, I guess, yeah, it would have to be, I think the timing would have to be the auction.

[01:07:52] I was wondering if it was also going to be tribal, but no, I think, I think it was at

[01:07:55] the auction.

[01:07:55] I mean, how long does that take?

[01:07:57] I mean, you and I said, if we have the right tools, we go out and we sort of like, you

[01:08:02] know, we, we, we snip some of the thread out of the thing, take it out, shove it in there.

[01:08:06] And then what person does loop after loop?

[01:08:08] I mean, I, I mean, 10 minutes, I imagine it would be enough time.

[01:08:11] A surgeon.

[01:08:13] Yeah.

[01:08:13] I mean, I mean, I, I, I'm sure someday there'll be a wonderful backstory of all of, of, of,

[01:08:19] of the shenanigans that producers go through to hide things that are on the beach.

[01:08:23] Yeah.

[01:08:23] That'll be a good episode of on fire.

[01:08:25] Um, for Rachel, I thought that this was a very gutsy and daring of like, Oh, I'm just

[01:08:30] going to get the machete and slice open the tarp.

[01:08:33] Uh, that, I mean, you ruin the tarp.

[01:08:36] Like this could be a lot of questions.

[01:08:39] Yeah.

[01:08:39] I mean, it's one of those things.

[01:08:41] What the hell, Rachel?

[01:08:41] Why did you do that?

[01:08:43] It's one of those things.

[01:08:43] You just hope people never think to ask you what you're doing.

[01:08:45] And then by the time you're, by the time you've found it, you're in the wind and no

[01:08:49] one really remembers what it was.

[01:08:51] Uh, I mean, people do all kinds of weird things all the time around the beach.

[01:08:57] And, uh, it's easy to not pay attention to any particular thing.

[01:09:00] Uh, but it does take guts to do that.

[01:09:03] I mean, I will point out that, you know, in the history, yeah, so to speak.

[01:09:08] And so in the history of this show, I mean, there have been many stunts for what people

[01:09:13] had to do to find idols and advantages.

[01:09:17] And every time people have found it, and I think only, and only, uh, to my knowledge

[01:09:23] on us survivor.

[01:09:25] And additionally, it's very rare for them to even get caught secondarily.

[01:09:29] I mean, this season, Sue getting caught red handed was one of the rare times to kind

[01:09:33] of, kind of beeline back to her.

[01:09:36] Uh, eventually people generally are creative enough to find a way to make it work.

[01:09:41] Okay.

[01:09:43] Andy also has the moment, the she's all that Christian.

[01:09:48] Have you ever, he's all that it?

[01:09:52] I wouldn't dare.

[01:09:54] I would, would not dare.

[01:09:55] You will not take off your glasses.

[01:09:57] I mean, I, I would, but, um, I, I don't know.

[01:10:01] I just, I will not let your hair down.

[01:10:03] No, no.

[01:10:03] The, the, the, the Christian version of this is, is the, um, he's professor.

[01:10:08] And if a student is looking at me and I want to, uh, subtly intimidate them, I'll just look

[01:10:13] down over my glasses and know that I mean serious business.

[01:10:16] That's the most, but that's not a, that's not the same effect that they're going for.

[01:10:20] No, I mean, even on survivor, um, I remember I got a note from production about halfway through

[01:10:25] it's like, yeah, Christian, you know, your, your hair has gone from, you know, kind of like

[01:10:29] Island, you know, Island slick to Island rat's nest.

[01:10:33] If you could do something about that, that would be great for television.

[01:10:37] Oh, like, okay.

[01:10:38] Thank you.

[01:10:38] Thank you.

[01:10:39] So I, I don't think I had the same.

[01:10:41] I didn't think they cared like that.

[01:10:43] Uh, you know, I, I had at least one producer looking out for me.

[01:10:47] Cause like, at some point I was just like, I had no idea what I looked at.

[01:10:50] Like you don't know what you look like out there as, as you know, to the point where

[01:10:53] like they scuff up the, like the machete.

[01:10:55] So you can't like see in your reflection, you know, they scuff or the nut or the, or the,

[01:11:00] if you get a, like a reward with knives in it, I remember Davey was trying to like use

[01:11:04] the knife handle to like get some kind of reflection.

[01:11:06] The only time I ever saw my reflection clearly was I was lying on the beach and a camera guy

[01:11:12] came up right in my face to get a shot of God knows what.

[01:11:15] I saw myself clear as day in the reflection of the lens.

[01:11:18] And I was like, Oh my God, like I had never seen myself with a beard before.

[01:11:22] It was crazy.

[01:11:22] So anyway, my Andy, the reason I should be talking about, I, I, a couple of things to

[01:11:29] note about the, she's all that moment.

[01:11:30] One it's a, it's a bold analogy.

[01:11:33] Good for him.

[01:11:34] He is a man of confidence, Andy.

[01:11:36] And how they cut to Sierra as if she was fawning over Andy post transformation.

[01:11:44] I'm not sure if Sierra was properly represented by that cutaway.

[01:11:48] You want to ask her tomorrow, Rob, if she actually saw the moment and, and reacted like that.

[01:11:55] Yeah.

[01:11:56] Just a very fun moment.

[01:11:57] And really kudos to the editors for putting that together.

[01:12:01] Cause that was a real, like, that was a huge pop at UNC when that moment happened.

[01:12:07] Everybody went nuts.

[01:12:08] They're doing more of that.

[01:12:09] I mean, like there was a scant two seasons ago when they were playing, when, when, when

[01:12:13] they, when they played the playing with the boys by Kenny Loggins, you know, to the film

[01:12:17] references, they enjoy their film references very clearly.

[01:12:20] Very meta.

[01:12:22] Christian, let me just tell you about a couple of weeks away from now, less than one month

[01:12:29] away.

[01:12:29] I will be together with our Rob is a podcast, a community when I'm going to be in Houston,

[01:12:39] Texas for RHAP live.

[01:12:43] Sounds great.

[01:12:44] Sounds great.

[01:12:45] Yeah.

[01:12:45] There's still tickets available or you're all sold out now.

[01:12:48] No, take a, tickets are still available right now.

[01:12:52] If you want to be there with us, uh, you can go to drop as a website.com slash Houston.

[01:12:57] We'll have a patron only meetup on the Tuesday night before, and then a patron only after party

[01:13:05] following our live panel in Houston, Texas, uh, December 4th.

[01:13:11] So looking forward to that.

[01:13:13] We got a lot of questions from our listeners.

[01:13:16] Okay.

[01:13:18] All right.

[01:13:18] Let's go.

[01:13:20] All right.

[01:13:20] Um, uh, Kevin wants to know, all right.

[01:13:25] What do we think of Caroline attacking the fish eyes head on?

[01:13:30] Uh, she, she, she, she, she's a woman of confidence.

[01:13:33] I got to say that, that like, that I don't have, like I can eat some gross foods.

[01:13:38] I would have to steal myself to bite the fish eye.

[01:13:41] So, I mean, so bold and also reflective about how she's playing the game too.

[01:13:47] I feel like I haven't given a lot of these players enough flowers.

[01:13:51] I gotta say, there's a lot of interesting players who I could see on some kind of ascendancy

[01:13:57] to become a winner.

[01:13:57] A lot of them.

[01:13:59] Um, I feel like even the starting tribes have like, like, like, like have like a real,

[01:14:04] have a cerebral strategic woman who has a very, who I, who I think has a very clear view

[01:14:09] of how they want to play the game between, you know, Caroline and, uh, Genevieve and, and

[01:14:15] Rachel.

[01:14:15] I think that the, like a lot of times, sometimes seasons you see, uh, patterns across the three

[01:14:21] tribes.

[01:14:22] Sometimes it's like, Oh, here, here's the nerd fan of the game guy, like, like guy with

[01:14:27] glasses, right?

[01:14:28] That they'll, sometimes that'll be paired across the different tribes.

[01:14:30] I think that that's one of the patterns here.

[01:14:32] And I think all three actually could, I could see them on a trajectory where they take control

[01:14:37] of the game at a critical moment and win.

[01:14:39] Yeah.

[01:14:40] Uh, Caroline has really impressed me over these last couple episodes and I felt like that she

[01:14:45] really had the right attitude in terms of like biting into the fisheye, biting into like,

[01:14:50] that's sort of like a winning attitude, uh, to me of just sort of like, okay, I'm going

[01:14:56] to try, I'm here, I'm in Fiji.

[01:14:57] I'm going to try it.

[01:14:58] I wouldn't want to do it.

[01:15:01] Well, I think that there are two, the show has two ethoses.

[01:15:07] I don't want to ask Steve what the plural of that is, but like, uh, that I think have

[01:15:11] been consistent across all of these seasons.

[01:15:14] I mean, I think some things have shifted.

[01:15:16] One, one of which is exactly what we're talking about, which is go outside your comfort zone.

[01:15:21] That survivor is about getting outside your comfort zone and trying new things.

[01:15:25] And the other is never give up.

[01:15:27] Never give up.

[01:15:28] Yes.

[01:15:28] I was going to say work hard, uh, but never, never give up.

[01:15:32] Try new things.

[01:15:33] Yes.

[01:15:34] The third, a third ethai or ethos would be what I think would be what you're talking about.

[01:15:38] The work hard.

[01:15:39] It's something that there's shades of the same thing.

[01:15:41] Like things, other things have changed over the years.

[01:15:43] There was a time where I, where I, I am still upset on your behalf, Rob, that Jeff yelled

[01:15:49] at you for, uh, for making a reference to the show on the show or like, uh, or different

[01:15:56] time though.

[01:15:56] Different time.

[01:15:57] Exactly.

[01:15:58] But now things are different, right?

[01:15:59] Things have changed.

[01:16:00] Like there's a lot of things about the show that change over the years and that's fine.

[01:16:03] That's totally cool.

[01:16:04] Uh, I, but like, uh, uh, but these things have always been the same.

[01:16:09] What from Austin quitting and survivor seven, you know, that was like that, that was treated

[01:16:16] as the worst thing that one could possibly do perhaps an unfairness to Austin at the time,

[01:16:21] but that's always been the ethos.

[01:16:23] Yeah.

[01:16:23] Okay.

[01:16:25] Paolo asks, Rob, you always say that the tightest group always makes it farthest in the new

[01:16:30] era.

[01:16:31] I think I've said actually across the history of the show.

[01:16:33] Um, what group do you think that is this season?

[01:16:36] Uh, I, I have said Christian that the largest tightest group, uh, will prevail.

[01:16:45] On survivor.

[01:16:47] Okay.

[01:16:48] So I mean, it'd be two people.

[01:16:50] That could be three people.

[01:16:51] Yeah.

[01:16:52] So, I mean, if I'm looking forward to who the question, if question one would be, who

[01:16:55] is the tightest significant group on that?

[01:16:59] We have seen so far, not just the hints of what could be, what has existed.

[01:17:03] I would say that I think we have, I think right now I would say, I feel comfortable saying

[01:17:08] a couple of pairs of Sam and Sierra and Caroline and Sue.

[01:17:13] Would you say that Caroline, Sue and Gabe are a trio though?

[01:17:18] That's trickier.

[01:17:19] I definitely, Caroline, Sue would, I would say as a pair.

[01:17:23] Um, yeah, you know what?

[01:17:24] They did set up the trio very early.

[01:17:27] The only thing with Gabe is he feel as I feel like he would be a one to break that alliance

[01:17:34] at a strategic time.

[01:17:35] Potentially.

[01:17:36] No, no, that's not true.

[01:17:37] No, that's not true.

[01:17:37] Right.

[01:17:38] Then Gabe was the guy talking about how he's going to avenge Russell Hans's game.

[01:17:41] Uh, and does Russell Hans actually was really about Kylo Ren of Russell Hans.

[01:17:47] That's that he imagined like the, like warped fedora that he took out of the fire.

[01:17:51] He's like, I will avenge you.

[01:17:53] I will finish what you started.

[01:17:54] I will finish what you started.

[01:17:56] That's it.

[01:17:57] Yeah.

[01:17:57] I, you know, so I, so I think, so honestly, yeah, I would clue in all three.

[01:18:02] And I think that, and that by my reasoning in his mind, that's his final three.

[01:18:09] I mean, I mean, is that a smart final three?

[01:18:12] It's hard to tell from our position.

[01:18:14] It's, but, but, uh, I mean, Caroline, from what we see has a lot of agency in these decisions

[01:18:19] as a lot of, and people who talk with her, uh, I think see that like, like you're telling

[01:18:26] me that if Genevieve ends on the jury, ends up on the jury and Caroline's in the finale.

[01:18:32] Um, I, I think that Genevieve understands what Caroline was up to.

[01:18:37] Mm.

[01:18:37] Okay.

[01:18:39] Let's take a question about, um, how about, uh, this question about Andy, uh, while everybody

[01:18:47] is playing Andy going for Gata, isn't that just making it easier for Sue, Gabe, and Caroline

[01:18:53] to Tika three their way to the end?

[01:18:56] This seems like short-term thinking that's from LL cool dubs that do you think that Andy

[01:19:02] is laying the groundwork for Sue, Gabe, and Caroline to get to the end?

[01:19:06] Well, that's a great question.

[01:19:08] LL cool dubs.

[01:19:09] Um, and I think that when it comes to, I think that Andy flipping was such a gift to the, to,

[01:19:15] to the Tukus.

[01:19:16] I mean, the Tukus could have very well been in the firing line.

[01:19:19] Yes.

[01:19:20] I mean, granted it wasn't Andy who necessarily made get the ball rolling on this from what

[01:19:24] we could tell, temporally speaking.

[01:19:26] Uh, but I mean, it is such a focus and distraction from what actually went down at that, at that

[01:19:34] tribal council that you're going to have Andy coming back.

[01:19:36] And we see Sam apparently trying to like bore a hole through Andy's like eyes with, with,

[01:19:42] with his stare, but confronting him next episode.

[01:19:45] Like that's going to be such a focus on Andy, Andy, Andy.

[01:19:48] And anything that's a distraction from your core group, potentially running the game is

[01:19:53] great.

[01:19:53] You know, the other thing that the Tuku three has going on is that they also have Kyle.

[01:20:00] They also have a four.

[01:20:01] Yes.

[01:20:02] Until, until the social security administration takes over and takes in Kyle.

[01:20:07] But for the moment, I agree.

[01:20:08] I agree.

[01:20:09] But do you see Kyle flipping against Tuku?

[01:20:12] Well, I mean, here's the thing.

[01:20:13] There was that whole blood feud early on between Sue and Kyle way back pre-merged.

[01:20:19] I don't know if it had patched over.

[01:20:20] I think that was like episode three.

[01:20:22] It was, it was, it was episode three because it was right after TK went home.

[01:20:26] I totally agree.

[01:20:26] I, I, I'm mostly just looking at this now from sort of a filmmaking standpoint that there

[01:20:31] are, again, two markers.

[01:20:32] There are two markers I've noticed.

[01:20:34] One is the Saul secret agents.

[01:20:37] I think that there's, it makes me feel like there's a story there that it was mentioned

[01:20:42] with a name and it wasn't just this funny line from Saul.

[01:20:45] And we immediately are treated to Saul having a nice moment with Kyle right after.

[01:20:50] I feel like that Kyle, that, that alliance, that little dream alliance might, there might

[01:20:55] be some story there, whether it works out or not.

[01:20:57] Some story.

[01:20:57] Was there some symbolism that upon forging this relationship with Kyle, then that Saul then

[01:21:07] cements the relationship by drinking a coconut, which is rancid.

[01:21:12] And that's very well could be foreshadowing very well could be foreshadowing how it goes.

[01:21:18] But the question of, it was like a Indiana Jones and the last crusade.

[01:21:23] He drank, he chose poorly, chose poorly.

[01:21:25] Yeah.

[01:21:26] Yeah.

[01:21:26] And I think that so, so, but what it portends at a minimum is that they're going to try

[01:21:31] to pursue this something between the two of them.

[01:21:34] I mean, or it could just be saying as, as, as, as convenient way to be saying from a filmmaking

[01:21:39] perspective that always install what a good guy, because you have good seemingly good guy,

[01:21:43] Kyle saying nice thing about Saul.

[01:21:45] The other thing that I wonder has not paid off enough yet is, um, and of Eve, the Andy

[01:21:52] and Genevieve and the V.

[01:21:54] Yeah.

[01:21:54] From, from, from, from last episode that could have just been expressing Andy's willingness

[01:21:59] to flip.

[01:22:00] But the way Genevieve talked about it, she, she saw it as some kind of back pocket alliance

[01:22:03] for the future.

[01:22:05] Um, so when I'm looking at alliances that could be to come ones that have stories to pay attention

[01:22:09] to, those are the two.

[01:22:10] Yeah.

[01:22:11] I think it's going to be interesting.

[01:22:13] And I think that we still have to deal with Sam.

[01:22:16] Um, and so he seems like the most likely person to go soon.

[01:22:21] Uh, Rachel asked what Sam's path forward.

[01:22:23] Does he have one?

[01:22:24] Can he and Rachel find numbers somewhere on the next vote?

[01:22:27] Now, is this potentially a misfire where does Sam find a home with Tuku?

[01:22:35] Is it Sam and Tuku versus the Andy, Andy and what's left of Luvu?

[01:22:43] It is again, hard to say.

[01:22:46] I mean, right now, uh, after that vote, it makes sense.

[01:22:50] You have targets out of Sam and Rachel, but I think that there's enough people with

[01:22:55] other plans that people could use the obvious target as a distraction for some kind of move.

[01:23:00] There's at least enough factions going on in sub factions.

[01:23:04] I think that could totally happen.

[01:23:05] I wouldn't make a strong prediction as to whether he survives or not.

[01:23:08] Yeah.

[01:23:08] As a consequence of it.

[01:23:09] Yeah.

[01:23:10] Go on.

[01:23:10] I'm sorry.

[01:23:11] All right.

[01:23:11] Well, let's bring, uh, Rachel back into this.

[01:23:13] I want to talk more about Rachel.

[01:23:14] It's perfect.

[01:23:15] Uh, Paolo wants to know where does Rachel go from here?

[01:23:17] Every episode, she's constantly having to fight for her life.

[01:23:20] That's that is, I, I loved a lot of what Rachel has done over these last several episodes,

[01:23:26] including this one.

[01:23:27] Um, uh, I worry that she's closing in on that threat spiral.

[01:23:32] Uh, I mean, like when, I mean, and, and, and some of it's completely unfair.

[01:23:35] Yeah.

[01:23:36] What do you mean a threat spiral where she's everybody's just, uh, completely focused on

[01:23:40] her as a threat?

[01:23:41] Yeah.

[01:23:42] And so, so, you know, I'm sure we remember every second of every conversation we've had,

[01:23:45] but when we talked the last in early 20, we talked in early 2019 about Rick Devins,

[01:23:50] uh, you know, the idea is that once you start surviving near, near death experiences, people

[01:23:56] look at you like, wow, what a threat you have survived this thing.

[01:23:59] And it only increased your threat.

[01:24:01] It's like a death spiral of an airplane that as you try to pull out of it, you actually

[01:24:05] make it worse.

[01:24:06] And so, and until eventually you crash.

[01:24:09] And, um, so it's very hard to pull out of.

[01:24:11] And so, because to no damn fault of her own, uh, the last episode, she was trapped onto a

[01:24:17] tribe where she had to be saved via a, uh, via this twist, which none of that was her doing.

[01:24:23] Um, now people view her like, oh, wow, she survived that thing, even though it's not

[01:24:28] really her doing.

[01:24:28] And now it happened again.

[01:24:30] And she, she showed how perceptive she is by sniffing out that she would, that her side

[01:24:39] was losing on that boat at tribal council.

[01:24:41] That was impressive.

[01:24:42] That was impressive.

[01:24:44] And, and, um, and she has a marker.

[01:24:45] She played it the shot in the dark at tribal.

[01:24:48] I'm sure people noticed that fact.

[01:24:50] So that's only going to increase to a lot of people like, wow, no, she is savvy.

[01:24:55] So if she keeps getting targeted, the best hope for someone like Rachel is that other people

[01:25:01] give me can become targets too.

[01:25:04] Yeah.

[01:25:04] So, and that, that's a challenge.

[01:25:05] That's a challenge.

[01:25:06] So here's the issue for Rachel in my mind is that we think that the best thing she has going is the SSA, where she's potentially going to be working with Saul.

[01:25:17] The problem is that Andy has flipped away from Gata to potentially work with Lavo.

[01:25:27] And so Andy and Rachel, not on the same page have sort of like inadvertently flipped to the same new alliance.

[01:25:36] Like, is that going to be workable?

[01:25:38] Yeah, there's, uh, the same alliance might be tricky, but if the head of the SSA is of course, Saul, then if he brokers it, I think there's a chance there.

[01:25:50] Now, of course there was,

[01:25:51] I didn't know he's going to be here.

[01:25:54] I didn't know she's going to be here.

[01:25:57] And I mean, and, and there was, um, um, at last episode, there was that opening conversation between Saul and Andy, where Andy was, where, where, where, where, where Andy said to Saul,

[01:26:07] you better vote and do exactly what I expect you to do the next several votes.

[01:26:13] It's sort of like a, sort of a, uh, like, like a threat because Saul voted for Andy after that, that, at the, at the, at the Rome tribal council.

[01:26:20] Um, but whatever that happened, I think that that hatchet got buried because Andy had other move, had other ambitions.

[01:26:27] I think that there, one thing that, uh, if I were working with Andy or on the beach with him at this point, I think it made it clear.

[01:26:35] He wants to be seen as a mover and shaker.

[01:26:38] We've seen him say, I am a strategist.

[01:26:40] Um, and like, and, and I think that in this, like in, uh, his conception of how the game is played, that means him making Tony esque flips at the right time.

[01:26:51] And so if, if, if, if presented with those opportunities, he might go for it.

[01:26:56] Is Andy in danger from Sam's vendetta next week?

[01:27:01] I, I would be shocked if somehow Sam managed to marshal the votes on Andy.

[01:27:06] What, what, what it's hard for me to see the case from what we see of people saying, yes, Sam, it's time to work with you to exact your vengeance on Andy.

[01:27:18] When there's gotta be some people, gotta be some people, uh, who, who are looking at Andy as a person to take really deep.

[01:27:27] And that could be a, maybe not a good idea.

[01:27:30] Just ask Sierra how that went.

[01:27:31] Um, but I think that it's someone, um, in Andy's current position, people, enough people might see that, um, him as an opportunity.

[01:27:42] Uh, but I think that there's, there's a secondary opportunity that if everyone is seeing Andy, someone that they feel that they can beat, what is, what would Sari do in this place?

[01:27:52] What WWCD?

[01:27:54] Mm-hmm.

[01:27:54] Yeah.

[01:27:55] Take out Andy.

[01:27:56] Take out Andy.

[01:27:56] Sorry.

[01:27:56] Yeah.

[01:27:57] You, sorry.

[01:27:57] You, you, you, sorry.

[01:27:58] We have an astute audience who I would assume knows what it means, but thank you for punctuating that for me.

[01:28:03] You got it.

[01:28:04] Okay.

[01:28:04] Christian, anything else from tonight's survivor 47?

[01:28:08] I mean, nothing, nothing specifically really jumps out.

[01:28:11] I, I, but I will say like, again, I think that this is setting up hopefully some interesting story.

[01:28:18] Like this was a good payoff to all the stuff that had happened to Andy in the first like half of the season.

[01:28:23] And, um, and, and it sets him off on a new trajectory moving forward.

[01:28:28] And we also planted the seeds of all these other alliances that could come to fruition.

[01:28:33] That just, I, I, I think this, this could be a lot of fun where we don't really know how everything's gonna, gonna, gonna shake out in the next few weeks.

[01:28:42] Like in a good way that I don't, I don't think we're going to read before the situation anytime soon.

[01:28:46] Yeah.

[01:28:47] Okay.

[01:28:48] Yeah.

[01:28:48] We'll see if, uh, Tuku is going to crack or, uh, if they are potentially, uh, going to be able to, uh, like this, uh, you know, season 47, I do think has some season 45 vibes, especially with the audience being back.

[01:29:02] So we'll see if, uh, they end up, if there ends up being a dominant alliance, uh, to discuss at the end of this thing.

[01:29:08] All right, Christian, we're going to have a ton of coverage coming up for this episode of Survivor.

[01:29:14] You can catch it all in our, we know Survivor feed.

[01:29:18] That's all at we know Survivor.com, including my exit interview with Sierra, the Survivor know-it-alls, uh, Survivor Global, Wide Blank Lost, Purple Pants Podcast, B&B.

[01:29:31] You name it.

[01:29:33] It's all there.

[01:29:34] And my Survivor San Juan del Sur rewatch with Josh Wiggler, where each week we go exactly 10 years into the past to talk about that week's episode of San Juan del Sur.

[01:29:46] So we've lost Julie McGee.

[01:29:48] We have lost Jeremy at this point.

[01:29:50] Where are we now?

[01:29:51] No, not yet.

[01:29:52] No.

[01:29:52] So, uh, that, that this, uh, 10 years ago, Tuesday, Julie McGee quit the game.

[01:29:58] And then this upcoming week, 10 years ago, uh, this Tuesday, uh, Josh will get voted out.

[01:30:05] Ooh, Josh, Josh.

[01:30:06] Oh, yeah.

[01:30:07] Sorry.

[01:30:07] Spoiler alert.

[01:30:07] Oh, man.

[01:30:08] I'll never forget, uh, uh, San Juan del Sur.

[01:30:11] I was living by myself in a Motel 6 in, in central Texas, uh, for a research visit.

[01:30:17] Yes.

[01:30:17] As we all do.

[01:30:18] And I think Survivor was by one tether to my fit, to my extended family to talk about the episode thereafter.

[01:30:24] All right.

[01:30:26] Then we've got, talked about this, uh, Christian, and you and I have talked about some time travel movies over the years.

[01:30:33] And, uh, Chappelle and I talked about a movie called Time Cut about a woman who goes back in time to 2003.

[01:30:43] I have seen promos from this.

[01:30:46] And, uh, I think I, where, where a woman suddenly sees things that are relics and says, whoa, what is this strange universe that I'm in?

[01:30:56] Yes.

[01:30:56] Where my phone doesn't have a screen.

[01:30:58] This phone is a flip phone.

[01:31:00] Yes.

[01:31:00] Uh, fun movie on, it was the number one movie on Netflix.

[01:31:03] Uh, in, I said, Time Cut is, uh, Back to the Future meets Scream.

[01:31:07] Time Cut.

[01:31:08] Oh, oh, oh, I see.

[01:31:10] I see the, the cut.

[01:31:11] I now see the knife.

[01:31:12] Okay.

[01:31:12] That bad name.

[01:31:13] It has a bad name.

[01:31:14] Time Cut is not a good name.

[01:31:15] Okay.

[01:31:16] Okay.

[01:31:16] All right.

[01:31:17] Um, I stand Kageon starring, uh, Dr. Christian Yubiki and, uh, a, a score of others talking about the, uh, season of Survivor that changed the franchise and its online fan base.

[01:31:34] Check that out.

[01:31:34] You could watch that in its entirety for free at I stand Kageon dot com.

[01:31:40] Okay.

[01:31:41] Uh, checked in with Angela.

[01:31:43] Do you know who this person is?

[01:31:44] Oh, yes, I do.

[01:31:45] Absolutely.

[01:31:45] Even, even, even as a non-Big Brother watcher, it was impossible for me to miss the beginning

[01:31:50] of this past part.

[01:31:51] From Big Freaking Brother.

[01:31:53] Angela Murray.

[01:31:54] Check her out.

[01:31:56] Uh, also talk to America's favorite player, Tucker, as well.

[01:32:00] I'll have our Survivor Q&A coming up on Thursday at 3 p.m.

[01:32:04] Eastern with our patrons and we will be taking their calls before the Survivor know-it-alls coming up on Friday.

[01:32:12] Okay.

[01:32:13] Uh, Christian, what else is coming up for you?

[01:32:15] Well, first I have a question.

[01:32:16] I, I have seen enough of this, this Tucker person.

[01:32:19] Does he have something to do with puzzles?

[01:32:20] Is that a thing or am I confusing this with something else?

[01:32:23] He does.

[01:32:23] He competed in the AI arena.

[01:32:25] Um, that, are you familiar with the game mechanics of Big Brother?

[01:32:29] In general, but the AI arena sounds a little bit too close to work for me, but, uh, but go on.

[01:32:34] Yeah.

[01:32:35] So that on Big Brother, the HOH picks two people to sit on the block on Thursday.

[01:32:40] This season, uh, the HOH would pick three nominees and they would compete in something called the AI arena.

[01:32:47] And one of them would earn safety on Thursday night and it ended up, uh, wreaking a lot of havoc.

[01:32:53] Oh, okay.

[01:32:54] Got it.

[01:32:54] Got it.

[01:32:54] Okay, cool.

[01:32:55] Thank you for clarifying it.

[01:32:56] And no, and it starts me things that are going on.

[01:32:59] Um, look, you can, uh, you can, you, you can find me on, on, uh, on a website called, uh, Twitter.

[01:33:05] Uh, I'm, uh, you know, I'm teaching, uh, this semester.

[01:33:08] Uh, also if for some reason you, you want, you know, a professor to come to your school to talk about robotics and or survivor, you can find me on Christianhubicchi.com.

[01:33:19] If you're, if you're interested in that sort of thing, uh, I give talks.

[01:33:21] Uh, but other than that, you know, just, just enjoying such a relaxing November.

[01:33:26] Yes.

[01:33:27] Like the rest of us.

[01:33:28] Okay.

[01:33:28] All right.

[01:33:29] Well, Christian, what a delight this was.

[01:33:31] Uh, this was, uh, a great time for me to go through all of this from this episode with you.

[01:33:36] Uh, I hope the listeners enjoyed it too.

[01:33:38] And then we have a very busy Thursday coming up.

[01:33:41] Hope everybody had a nice time going through this episode of Survivor.

[01:33:46] Uh, hope everybody is doing okay out there wherever you are and looking forward to more fun together coming up starting tomorrow on Thursday.

[01:33:58] Take care.

[01:33:59] Have a good one.

[01:34:00] Bye.

[01:34:58] Big thanks to Eric Barger who composed the beautiful ballad you just heard.

[01:35:01] Hear more of his music at It Electric over on Instagram.

[01:35:05] Bye.