Christian Hubicki Postseason Interview

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[00:02:19] We're so excited here because we're catching up with our great friend who is so hot coming off of season 50 of Survivor, Dr. Christian Hubicki. Christian, how are you? Thrilled to be here, Rob. It is, oh gosh, it's good to chat with you now that the season is over and now there are no more secrets to be kept and now everyone knows what happened and it's great to just dive in with you, you know?

[00:02:44] Yeah, okay. Well, we got a lot of stuff to cover here today, but everything is going well after the season? Oh, fantastically. I'm thrilled. One, the semester is also over in addition to Survivor 50. The finale was a blast. It was great seeing everyone. It went off without a hitch, of course. No problem. Famously. But it was great seeing everyone and I feel it's a great opportunity to move on to the next thing.

[00:03:12] Now it's summer. I'm doing a lot more public science communication work and so it's kind of a thrilling opportunity and sort of freeing, you know? Well, I'd love to have you come back and do a whole podcast about what else is coming on after Survivor. I think we have unlimited time to do that in the future, but let's get into talking about the Survivor 50 of it all.

[00:03:35] And we came off of the finale last month and it was a jury vote that has been talked about to some degree. You were one of the people that was on the jury. I've looked at the block of you and Rick and Emily as the swing voters who kind of were going to decide this.

[00:03:58] I think it was also going to be the same case in terms of Jonathan versus Rizzo versus Joe if that ended up being the final three, if Aubrey wasn't there. Can you give us some of your insight? You did such a great job of talking through famously your vote for Mike White over Nick back in David versus Goliath. So I have to imagine you put a lot of thought into Aubrey versus Jonathan. I did put a lot of thought in. I mean, I think to be fair, I think so much of the rest of the jury did too.

[00:04:28] But yeah, I really, I mean, I'm very confident in my vote and I did it and I was at the time. And in fact, one thing I was kind of accidentally smart in doing is I brought with me to Ponderosa an MP3 player, which I forgot to load any music on. Because, you know, but I did realize that afterwards it was a voice recorder. Like I realized it's like, oh my goodness, this is also a voice recorder.

[00:04:53] So in the pregame and postgame at Ponderosa, I was just dictating hours and hours of thoughts. And this was really useful because I got like my contemporaneous thoughts right after the final tribal council vote as to why I voted for Aubrey. So in terms of logistics, what you're talking about, Rob, in terms of like me, Rick and Emily being the swing votes. I mean, we viewed it kind of that way too at the time to the point where we're looking at the people that were probably going to vote for Aubrey. The people were probably going to vote for Jonathan. We weren't sure, sure. Some of them we were very sure.

[00:05:23] But like we looked at the breakdown there and we said, hey, if the three of us keep our votes a secret and from each other as well, tell nobody, then no one will know who won the season. And so we swore each other the secrecy going into the tribal council. We're not going to tell anyone who we voted for, not each other. So I didn't know who they voted for until Jeff read the votes of tribal council.

[00:05:47] And it kind of was validating and that we all independently came to the same conclusion to vote for the same person. And in this case, in the form of Aubrey, I remember I was talking with Emily before the vote. And I was like, oh, how do you feel about the vote? She's like, oh, I I'm not, you know, fully sure about how I voted and how I feel about it. Because she she was worried that she might be like the swing vote that would literally tip in one direction.

[00:06:12] But I think at the end, when we all kind of came to the same conclusion to vote for Aubrey in a way, it was validating. And yeah, we get into why I imagine. Yeah, please. Yeah. So so like it's a little bit different than my first season where Mike White, I was like I walked away just sort of blown away. I like what Mike White did. And at the time, it really felt that way. And I maintain so much of what I said with Aubrey. It was a it was a much sort of like it was a much kind of a messier sort of decision of a vote.

[00:06:39] But the reason that I recorded at the time is I really appreciated her zigging and zagging style of game. Like it was very clear to me, mostly because maybe I recognize it in myself or what I'm trying to do in a game of Survivor, where I'm kind of trying to jump around from vine to vine when I need to, if I need to. And she successfully pulled that off. And in a way that when and it wasn't like she was just floating by, she was targeted. She was targeted multiple times throughout the throughout the vote.

[00:07:06] And so the reasoning I'm going through as I'm listening back to my reasoning for the first time in a year, by the way, in preparation for the podcast, like, yeah, it all kind of tracked with what I remembered, which was that, yes, she was targeted. But she found a way to say, OK, you know what? Separating from Christian is probably the smart thing to do right now. I'll jump from there to there. That was good. I thought she did a really smart job with it. And it was intentional.

[00:07:36] But like a couple of things was what once she was said she lied to me by why she didn't play her idol. I talked about that in the episode. Like, Aubrey, do you think I'm stupid? And this came up at Final Tribal Council. And it's like she was like, I tried to play it off like I forgot. I was like, I said, Aubrey, it really came across like you thought we were stupid. And she was like, and she owned it. But in addition to that, a big one of the bigger things was the listening back was the Aussie vote.

[00:08:03] And this is what the information we had going into the vote was like, that was a question. Who is responsible for the Aussie vote? Who do we give credit for the Aussie vote? And the tenor of the discussion is that it ended up being like, oh, this was Aubrey's move. That was something that was sort of the conclusion of what we talked about at Tribal Council. I think that it's a little bit hazy, I think, still as to what happened. But I remember that something I thought, it's like, I feel I had to give more credit to Aubrey than to Jonathan. Because that really was a domino that sort of caused the rest of the game to fall down.

[00:08:33] So there was this role in this pivotal vote. And I was going back and I was listening to, yeah. And I remember that Jonathan played a very good game. And I was like, I thought, specifically at Final Tribal Council, when he talked about how he made up the D fight, kind of staged that whole thing. Like, that's good. There's some intention there. And I think that with Jonathan also, there's a little bit of Boston Robby-ness to him. And before, without talking about him being coached under the tutelage of Boston Robb,

[00:09:02] he does have a similar style where he leverages his power when he has it. Like, if he feels like he has you over a barrel, he will kind of use that leverage. Like, okay, you've got to tell me this. Or you've got to do this for me, right? That's sort of a Boston Robb running the game kind of move. He had that sort of intention. So he was very much a viable candidate. But I think in the end, the fact that Aubrey was able to jump from vine to vine in a way that she was always on the right side of the votes

[00:09:32] really stood out to me as a reason to vote for her. Okay. Thank you for getting into that. Let's get back to you and talk about you coming into Survivor 50. And you gave a great interview with Mike Bloom, about 35 minutes or so to kick off the preseason. And it was such a delight to hear you back talking about Survivor again, and all the things that you had been cooking up. We had no idea of what we would actually see in the season. But we knew you had been thinking a lot about season 50.

[00:10:02] Yeah. I mean, it was a very different experience than my first season. My first season, I had no idea how I would even be received on the island. And I talked about this to you before. We can rehash that at a later date. But I just didn't know. So I didn't have a very strong game plan going into Survivor David versus Goliath. I was like, well, I'll adapt and figure it out, you know, what the game is like. But this time, you knew who was going to be out there. The cast leaked like four days before we left. And I remember I was up late at night.

[00:10:29] My son, Michael, was like, I had to like rock him back to sleep. I put him down. I pulled out my iPad. I had the list of all the alleged cast. And I started like categorizing people. Like, how do I, I was trying to figure out who was on what tribe. And I came up with this sort of elaborate, this sort of hypothesis of trios. Now, I don't think literally Survivor cast in that exact way. But it's sort of a model for which I start thinking about how Survivor views us and why we are cast on the show the way that they are. What are we there to do?

[00:10:58] Like, because we're here to produce a TV out television show. And you're like, well, Jonathan, while he has a lot of talents, if he was not excellent in challenges, he would not be on the show. You know, he's there because that's why he's a Survivor player. But he's also got other talents, right? Similarly, you know, someone like Mike White. I think he's very talented at the game. He's very good. But also, he's an excellent storyteller. He's great in the confessional.

[00:11:23] And once you start realizing that these are their superpowers that get them on the show, you start to realize, I started to kind of put together patterns of behavior as how they behave in the game. And which of these folks would be compatible with me moving into a returning player season? Which, by the way, I was terrified I would go home early. Terrified. I had no idea what's going to happen this season. So how do I maximize my way of getting as far as possible to specifically get to the end? And if I don't have a path to the end, why am I here?

[00:11:51] Why am I leaving my son if I don't have a path to the end and win? And what this ended up being is I ended up saying this was really important in the pre-merge because in the pre-merge, often, yes, you want to just get rid of people that are just not you and maybe don't want to work with you. So that way you can get to the merge. This season, I was like, getting to the merge is not enough because I've experienced getting to the merge and being a giant target and being targeted over and over and over again.

[00:12:20] And eventually it just gets you, right? So I was looking at these people on the beach and I'm like, okay, there are some people I don't want to make the merge if I have anything to do about that. And even if I like them a lot, a great example is Q. Like Q is, I actually, I had two days with Q. It's a beautiful two days with Q. I love being with Q. But I also saw how Q plays and especially at the merge, he kind of emits this distortion field. I kind of categorized him as a character.

[00:12:50] He's there for the drama. He's also a smart guy. But no strategy can happen around him that isn't somehow distorted by Q to do something else, right? And that was not going to be helpful for me at the merge. And in fact, everyone seems to want to take Q deeper. And so people like Q who are being kept around, people want to keep them deeper. They are, as much as I love them, like strategically my enemy on a returning player season of Survivor because they're taking them to a spot that is not me. I'm very likely to be targeted.

[00:13:20] And so I was trying to eliminate people who near the, once the merge hit, one, if they didn't want to work with me, I want to get rid of them. But also, if it's taking up a spot for me, then I should find a way to get them out if it's reasonable. Yeah. Besides Q, who else fit in that category? A big one was Angelina. And as much as I, you know, Angelina and I had a good relationship since David versus Goliath.

[00:13:46] We didn't talk very much, but it was, but like I remember looking back on the season. She's one of the people that, she did a good job of David versus Goliath, always keeping the door open to one of working with me. And so I saw no reason to target her after a certain point in David versus Goliath. Like, oh, she wants a person that might want to work with me. Why would I target her? And that's good on her. In hindsight, I was like, I should have targeted her because everyone else wanted her around once you got a certain depth in the game.

[00:14:10] So I was like, if there was an opportunity came up where Angelina might be a target to go pre-merge, she should go pre-merge for a number of reasons. That was one of them. Okay. So one of the things you talked about in the preseason was that you really wanted to work with Sari. You wanted to go to the end with Sari because you felt like that you could offer something to Sari that she's never had. She never gets to the end.

[00:14:36] And you thought that your unique selling proposition was, I'm not afraid to go to the end with you. Yes. And I was thrilled when I showed up on the beach, on my starting beach. And I not only had Rick, who I was excited to work with, Emily, who I knew from Blood on the Clock, Tower Games that we play on, you know, available on, Rob has a podcast, YouTube channel. You can watch. And for the record, you did not, put your hand on the tribe that I have spoken. Yes.

[00:15:03] You did not have a pre-game relationship with Rick Devins? Not at, well, I met Rick Devins, but we didn't strategize pre-game. Like we, like, so we would, it's not like we never texted, we absolutely texted. But there was no, like, Rick, when you and I get together, we're going to do X, Y, and Z. Like we actually, he was trying to get me to do a talk at his university. He was at Middle State Georgia University. So it's not like we didn't talk, to be clear. I just want to make that clear. But I do want to disambiguate.

[00:15:31] Rick was kind of removed from a lot of the pre-gaming. I think if you talked with him, he would tell you that. But I would say I talked more with Emily Flippin. And we didn't talk strategy either, but it was mostly that we would touch base. And I think in part because she wanted me to make sure we were on a good page, even though she told me she would absolutely never go back on Survivor. And then she was going back on Survivor. I think she was worried that I wouldn't, that I'd see her as a liar or something for that. So she was very friendly. It's not a lie if you change your mind. There you go. Exactly.

[00:16:00] Exactly, Rob. So when it comes to Sari, though, I was on a beach with her. I'm like, oh, my God. And I'm thinking, because my big puzzle that I had in David versus Goliath, it may or may not have been true this season, was how the hell do I get to the end of this game? It's just like if I'm ever in a position to win, I'm very likely to be targeted. If I get deep in the game and I'm likely to be targeted, they will target me. It'll be very hard to get to the end. I need to find more people like that. One of them was Rick Devins.

[00:16:29] Rick Devins, and I thought he was perfectly compatible. If I ended up on a beach with him, it's an easy sell. And I wanted to give the same pitch to Sari, which was that both of us are targeted constantly. And I did. I found her on day one, and I said, Sari, I really want to talk to you. I've been wanting to talk to you this whole time. And I basically told her, you and I have the same problem to vastly different degrees. Both of us have never been able to penetrate the end of the game.

[00:16:57] And there will be times, and you might not believe me, but I'm crazy enough, I would go to the end with you. I would want to go to the end. And there will be times where you'll need my help to not be targeted. And there will be times I need your help to not be targeted. But then at some point, we will need each other. And so there was this back and forth of, I pitched this back and forth. And of course, Sari says yes, because of course she's going to say yes, knowing that she might go back to the confessional and laugh at me.

[00:17:27] But I knew I had to make kind of a big play like that. One thing, and as much as Sari, I do credit with a lot of my downfall later in the game, one thing she did say, I feel like in my boot episode, what she was like, there were times where Christian protected me, and there were times where I protected Christian. And I was like, huh. I feel like what I said did sit in her mind a bit. And there were certainly times where I went to bat to protect her, certainly in the early, the first vote of the season when Jenna was targeting her.

[00:17:57] And so I did make that pitch. That was something that I did as a big swing. But I should have cut bait on her earlier, kind of mid-merge, knowing how close, now realizing how close she was to Oz. Was there a specific point that you look back at that you think that this was the move where we should have gotten rid of Sari? Sari? So really, I regret almost nothing about this season up until my final day in the game, day 18.

[00:18:26] And that's both me going on the Jimmy Fallon advantage journey and telling Sari about wanting to get rid of Ozzy. I mean, those are the two things I just like, and it's on like the last day. Those are the things I really regret. And so, and Sari might have been a good target at that vote because there was appetite for Sari from some quarters, but I would have had to know where to go for that. So I wouldn't have gone for her earlier. I don't regret not taking her out first, to be honest.

[00:18:54] That's, I think that it made all the sense in the world because she was in fact, I mean, in a world where Sari is at, let's say the merge and we weren't close, I could have been someone she threw under the bus at the merge instead of the, I could have easily been that person. So I think that she wasn't trying to target me at least for that, that period. So I, but I, but maybe on day 18, if I let other people build the vote, I could have bandwagoned on. It would have been tricky at that point. You know, you're coming off of the Coach and Chrissy Tribal Council where you've spent

[00:19:23] a lot of social capital with lying to Jonathan and Joe is upset with Rick Devin. So you kind of need a lot of the people that you're most at odds with. Maybe that could be the olive branch that gets the two sides back together going after the actual middle, which is Sari and Ozzy and Rizzo. A lot of, you know, I lost my dad a while back and every now and then talking to my mom,

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[00:23:41] I got your back, chosen one. Disney's Moana. Boat's neck. His name is Heihei. His name is Yum Yum. When he goes in my tum-tum. In theaters July 10th. Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested. I do want to go back to the beginning of the game. And something that I think is really notable is when you end up finding the hidden immunity idol. You find the Billie Eilish boomerang idol. And you have to come up with a decision of what to do with it.

[00:24:10] And the Billie Eilish boomerang idol that you find is actually going to play a very big part in your story. But also the season. First, it is going to be something that with you and Rick. And you're going to hide the fake idol. It's also going to be the thing that you need to tell Emily about at the last minute before the tribe swap. But you also need to make a decision. Who am I going to send the Billie Eilish boomerang idol to? And you chose Aubrey. Aubrey Bracco.

[00:24:40] And you said in confessional, Godspeed, Aubrey Bracco. And you probably couldn't have even known that it was really one of the first big turning points in the game. Well, I mean, certainly I did not know the details of what was going on with Aubrey. But the thinking behind that, I got to get a little backstory. For one, it was edited a little bit out of sequence. I actually found that idol shortly before Tribal Council on episode two.

[00:25:10] So it was right before Tribal Council I found this thing. While Joe and Rick had just had their little spat. And it was so awkward. And because there's an odd number of people, I had no one else to go off and talk to. So I said, I'm just going to go off and look for an idol. And I found it. And I was talking to camera about it. And I'm even reacting. I'm even talking about Joe and Rick in the moment when I find it. Because I literally was just exiting from this fight on day six right before Tribal Council. So I just found it. I'm pulled aside. I'm asked, you know, who do I give it to? And what a crazy decision I had to kind of go through.

[00:25:39] And what was sticking out in my head is I had just seen the episode two immunity challenge. And we're all running, kind of dragging this snake around. And I remember a lot of us were talking about like, Aubrey looked like she wanted to cry. Like she looked like she was really upset. I think she was like, and also knowing she was there with Q. And this person who had famously on his season said he should be really worried about people with Aubrey.

[00:26:05] It made all the sense to give the idol to someone who was in trouble for two reasons. One is it could protect them if they need it. Two, if they're targeted and they're not protected, you get the idol. It's like, and so it's the natural place where you send it. And Aubrey is a person, we didn't communicate really over the course of like the years in between our seasons or anything. But I just had a vibe that, you know, we're both kind of nerdy folk. We'd get along so I could build a relationship with that. So that was a slam dunk there.

[00:26:31] And so I was hoping that this would build a relationship. But if it didn't, I'd get an idol. That was the thing. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, tell me about this plan that gets concocted of, because you said that, you find this fake idol shortly before the tribal council that ultimately, I believe it's the same tribal council, the Savannah vote, where the fake idol is planted. How did that come together so quickly?

[00:26:59] Well, I mean, first thing is I had to report to Rick, in my opinion, that I had the idol because there was concern that Savannah had an idol. And now we finally knew something about this idol. So I was like, I'm going to go tell Rick because I don't want to have people try to do a crazy split vote situation because she didn't find anything. Now, but I did say if she could have been gifted something. So I wanted to report to Rick real quick, like, this is what's going on. So let's put the kibosh in any kind of split vote plans that are happening. There was a very complicated plan.

[00:27:29] Serene wanted a very complicated plan. And it was in a good way to try to get rid of Savannah and like trying to really pitch us. I'm like, I'm fine with it. I'm fine with doing Savannah. It's okay. But I talked to Rick and he immediately has this idea of like, clearly he'd been cooking this up for a long time. He's wanted to do this. It's like, do you have the wrapping? I'm like, yes, of course. And so he pitched the idea of hiding it at tribal council. You see my reaction. It's one like, oh my God, that's brilliant. But oh my God, that's amazing. We should absolutely do that.

[00:27:57] And so I gave him the wrapping and I think I told the story. I had lost the twine. Rick Devins is an idol artist. He wanted the twine and we had to go find it. And I lost it again. It was a whole rigmarole. And we, in fact, were working out the logistics of like, if he's seated here and I'm seated here, where should I do the fall? And where's he going to plant the idol? Because on the first tribal council, he was mostly scanning around, finding places where he could plant it.

[00:28:23] And so we worked out the logistics of where I'd fall when they sat us at tribal council. And then like, oh my God, like, am I going to do this? And sure enough, like you just kind of just embrace the craziness. Like, sure, I'll just do a pratfall. Why not? And it worked shockingly better than I expected in part because tribal council is quiet. Like we get all the music when we're watching the show, but it's dead silent otherwise.

[00:28:50] So to hear a, you know, happening, that's going to startle everyone. I even, I asked one of the editors that I got to meet at the final tribal, after final tribal council, I'm sorry, at the finale. They said, I do the Foley work, the Dan Foley work, the audio work, you know, like, and I said, did you make fake noises for me falling? And they said, no, we use your sound from your mic. I think is what he implied for the sound of me falling. That is the actual sound. So it startled people and it worked shockingly well.

[00:29:19] The only challenge is that Rick didn't tell me where he hid the idol and I forgot to ask. Did you get hurt? No, not really. I mean, like, it just, it's kind of like, I just kind of just let myself go kaput. I kind of knee down, arm down. People were really concerned. And like, I felt bad about it because I don't want to fake a medical condition. Because I feel like kind of crosses a bridge too far for like a game move. So I got back, like, it definitely, I kind of acted like I got my bell rung and then Sari had to redirect me away. I literally was walking in the wrong direction.

[00:29:49] It's like, it kind of worked. It kind of just built, you know, and then I got back to camp. I wanted people to, one, not think I was about to die. And so I was like, look, I'm fine. Look, I'm dancing around. I'm good. Don't worry, folks. And Joe had some very elaborate medical hypotheses as to what happened to me. And I felt bad. It was like the season. No, I was just faking. Yeah. You're set up incredibly well. You're doing so great to start off the game.

[00:30:12] I think you probably couldn't have thought to yourself, well, I could not be getting off to a better start in this game with this initial starting tribe and how things are playing out. And then ultimately you get to the swap. And so it's such a unique swap where you get swapped to a tribe with Mike and Angelina. Yes. And my first interaction was like, oh my God, this is amazing.

[00:30:37] We actually gave each other a glance when we're being walked out of like off of the swap. Like the three of us happened to be in line behind each other. And we're not supposed to talk at that point because we're about to go off camera. And we look at each other like, oh my God, is this happening? This is amazing. And so at first it was exciting. And then I'm looking at it. I also have Ozzy and Emily there from our starting tribe. And I have a good relationship with both of these people at this point. So I'm like, this is good options.

[00:31:04] And we got Q and Stephanie on the outs. This looks good. It's only once I kind of get to camp and I realize the optics of this. I even kind of said it at the time. I was like, look, these people tried to vote me off four times each, which is something I think I told each of them that I would say if I would ever asked about our relationship. I was like, well, you know, I like them, but they tried to vote me off four times each. And so the, and, but I was aware of the, the optics. I was like, this, the optics are bad.

[00:31:34] Let's see if there's a way to manage it. Um, and I was particularly worried about Emily Flippen because I wanted that relationship with Emily Flippen, but I could easily see her getting spooked by the DVG three getting back together. So I was, I was, I was a little nervous, but I want to see if there was a way to handle it. That was my first instinct. Yeah. And this is when, of course, Emily is, uh, has gotten a little spooked about the idol that you were trying to tell her about.

[00:32:01] And then she goes to Q and Ozzy to tell them about, uh, what you told her. Yeah. So that surprised me. Like I, I think I expected her. So first you get to the beach, like, like, uh, I, the reason I wanted to tell her is I wanted to have that information that is that someone, if she got swapped to another tribe, that would somehow help her. She could use it to blindside Aubrey or she could use it to help Aubrey. I wanted to maximize the chances of her getting to, uh, to a swap, to the merge and we're together.

[00:32:31] Um, and literally like one thing to emphasize how little time there is. Like, like, like, I wish I had been able to tell her before was we were literally trying to pull people aside. We managed to catch Sari, uh, that we want to tell them about the idol. But like, literally she's like talking to Joe, Emily's talking to Joe. And I'm like, I know, I'm like, Emily, I can't just pull her away from Joe. It's a highly suspicious. And so I was like, Oh God. And then sure enough, it's a swap. So I was like, I told her that I figured it's okay. We'll get to the beach. Um, we'll fan out. We'll talk to people. Then we'll reconnoiter. I'll tell her what happened.

[00:33:01] I didn't expect within 20 minutes she would tell people and or whatever time it was. And that, that, that, that, that she would panic like that. I was like, I did not expect that. I feel like that was outside the bounds of what I would have, it was a reasonable expectation of what an ally would do. In the end, I was okay with it. I was fine with it. At first I was, I was like, okay. Especially when she came to the conclusion that she can't trust these other people. And she was happy to work with the DVG three. I was like, this is an excellent outcome.

[00:33:29] My bigger fear than the idol being found out was Emily Flippen wanting to align with, to try to get rid of people from the David versus Goliath three. And she seemed to be off of that train. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I'm all right with the outcome of this. As much as the front, I was so, I don't think I've ever been more mad in my life that in the moment that I, I found that, that she did. And like, like my reaction is one, I've never been that angry. I can't even remember when. Yeah. All right.

[00:33:56] Well, you talked about Q and what ultimately went wrong for Q. Can we talk about the big vote, the three, two, one, which, uh, it was technically, uh, something to behold, uh, a three, two, one, of course. Uh, but it must've been a big decision for you to ultimately turn on Mike. Oh yes. It was a huge decision.

[00:34:20] Like, like it was a lot went into that and it was an, especially in the lead up to the, all these votes. I was trying to come with as least dramatic votes as possible. Boring votes. Clean votes. You said. Clean votes, clean votes. Emily Flippen almost got Ozzy out in the first vote, which would have been hilarious. She was trying to pull out like a three way vote that would have left out Sari and Jenna to get rid of Ozzy. And I was, and I was like, I admired it, but I was like, I, I, what are we doing? No, no, no. Clean vote.

[00:34:48] And so I, I ultimately, she respected the fact that I didn't want to do it and do it. So anyway, clean votes. This was, but like what, but like I, I, the only reason I would do not a clean vote, especially in the pre-merge, was if I felt it was like catastrophic if I didn't. And I think that that vote, that real, when the lead up to that vote, I started to realize what a bind I was in.

[00:35:09] Because I, like, I, like I was realized, oh my God, this, if, if we, number one, if we, the Dave versus Glyph three, go through multiple votes and we emerge from a tribe swap together and we go into the merge, the three of us are our target. Absolute target, absolute target, easy target to paint, especially when I'm back in my first starting tribe and I'm like, look, I, I like Angelina, but I'm not going to work with Angelina, is what I told people. And then all of a sudden I'm protecting her at all these votes. That's bad for me, especially at the merge.

[00:35:38] If the three of us are there, I'm the one taking the bullet. Angelina, I think once she gets to the merge, she becomes much less of a target. But people start to see her as a person that they can take deep into the game. And Mike White, you know, celebrity aside, is actually incredibly personable and people like working with him. And sure, there's a little bit of the white lotus effect, but they're not targeting Mike. No one believes when people meet Mike, they don't know how good he is. And I have to, like, remind people that he is that good. So I'm the one taking the bullet.

[00:36:08] I'm the obvious target. So I'm like, basically, one of these three have to go. And my first thought is Angelina. And it's like, well, and already Ozzy wants to get rid of Angelina. This makes sense. And I kind of want, like, and Mike is aware of the situation. In fact, spills the beans to Angelina that she's the target and tries to save her. And I'm talking to Mike. And I pull him aside. Like, Mike, you realize this three, this is bad for us. And that's when he starts pitching me on getting rid of Emily.

[00:36:36] This is a Gabby situation. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, it actually did hit me. I was saying you did anything out of bounds. You didn't do anything out of bounds. But, like, it really did emotionally kind of hit me. And I remember I come away from that conversation. And I go and talk to Stephanie. Mike had went to go and work on Stephanie to get rid of Emily Flippen as well. And Stephanie was like, Mike is so convincing. I think we should get rid of Emily. What do you think? And I was like, yeah, let's do Emily.

[00:37:06] Let's do Emily. Because even though, like, in part, I was like, Mike, I think he's trying to do me a solid. Trying to pretend. Like, it didn't fully make sense to me. It's like, yeah, Emily might turn on me eventually. But, like, in the pre-merge? Why are we doing it now? It didn't make fully sense. But I kind of trusted it. So I said, let's do Emily to Stephanie. I went to Mike. And I was like, okay, let's do Emily. We'll do it. But I got to know, what are we doing when we hit merge? This is going to be a problem.

[00:37:34] Like, for all the reasons I said, I'm going to get targeted. We're going to get targeted. What are we going to do? And he's like, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Maybe we'll get rid of Angelina next. And I was like, that's when the switch flipped for me. I was like, one, that's not a plan. And two, this is not sincere. If he's trying to pull out the sort of emotional stakes of Gabby to try to get me to save Angelina, he's not just going to pitch her overboard next vote. So it's like, okay.

[00:38:02] At that point, I'm like, I really wanted to work with Mike. He was great on the Q vote, by the way. And I admit, I actually loved, we got to sleep by like the, near the canoe together at night. It really reminded me of old times. But at that point, I was like, this guy is not in my corner. He's in Angelina's corner. And what does that mean? Okay, what are my options here? Because if I go over, I can get rid of Angelina. I could get Emily Flippin' on board and get rid of Angelina. At that point, I've gone over Mike's head.

[00:38:30] And also, he's very close with Ozzy. One thing that Ozzy was trying to hide, that he was close to Mike. But Mike told us he was close with Ozzy. He'd said this publicly back on David vs. Goliath. He's like, oh, I'm good friends with Ozzy. He comes to my restaurant all the time. And Ozzy was like trying to hide that fact. And I remember I told Ozzy, I was like, Ozzy, I know you're close with Mike. And he kept downplaying it. We even floated the idea of Mike to Ozzy at one point, just sort of half jokingly. And the way he shut that down so quickly, I was like, okay, he's got something deep going on with Ozzy.

[00:39:00] So Ozzy's got something deep going on with Mike. So what are my options? So I was like, I'll go to Angelina. That's going to piss off Mike. And Mike is close with Ozzy. He'd bring Ozzy on board. And he's really influential with Stephanie. He'd probably get three. So maybe I make it to the merge, but I pissed off Mike. But then, what if I get rid of Mike? How could I do that? Obviously, I can't tell Ozzy for the reasons I said. I think that was borne out on the show. He said he would absolutely have blown up my spot.

[00:39:27] And he told me afterwards that he absolutely was trying to go deep to the end with Mike. So at that point, it has to be a 3-2-1. And my thinking was, is that if I split up, Ozzy would be mad. So the good side is, is it diffuses the David versus Goliath three. No one sees things that David versus Goliath three is working together. It's split. It leaves Ozzy and Angelina back in the game, both of whom had just lied to each other going into that vote. Ozzy, in fact, voted for Angelina. They're unlikely to work together in the next vote.

[00:39:56] Downside is that Ozzy's mad. But I remember in South Pacific, when he was left out of votes in the pre-merge, he got really mad. But then he got over it and then volunteered to send himself to Redemption Island and give Cochran his idol. So I was like, I just need time. And it's certainly preferable than being a dead man at the merge. And the benefit, the real benefit, is that if I got through this vote and proved to Emily Flippen that I was willing to take out Mike White over her, I would have her loyalty.

[00:40:25] That was my reasoning. And I think that that was borne out in the end, the fact that she went to bat for me and almost went home trying to get out Ozzy over me on day 18. So that was the thinking of that vote. It was just a matter of pulling it off. And that was scary. That was scary as hell. But looking back on it now, I wouldn't change a thing. I was, I really, when I think about it, I am proud of it on many levels. The only thing I don't like about it to this day is the fact that it hurt Mike. That's the one thing I don't like about it.

[00:40:55] Yeah. And I understand that there are hurt feelings there. Do you feel like that there is hope that there will be reconciliation at some point? I mean, that's up to Mike. I mean, Mike's got a lot going on in his life. And certainly, my phone's open to him. If you ever want to reach out and talk about it, I reached out to him as soon as I got back, sent him a message. Because one thing I didn't want him thinking is that I always planned to do this.

[00:41:21] And as much as I was wary of whether or not Mike was truly in my corner, I like him. And I wanted that kind of talent on my side. But he was basically, just to re-litigate just a little bit more, if I wrote down with Mike going into the merge, I'd be playing Mike's game. I'd be reliant upon Mike saving me in the future. And as much as I think he's skilled, I don't think he was that skilled.

[00:41:47] I don't think he would stave off me voting off one of Ceri's allies in Emily at the merge. I'm not sure he could stave that off. So it's purely a strategic move. And I hope that he would see it that way. I think that he sees the game differently, though. And that's okay. I mean, people have different views of it. But it's up to him if he wants to reach out. My phone's open. I would say give it time. I found Mike to be a very forgiving person.

[00:42:17] And I think that, you know, with time, I think maybe he'll come around. Yeah, we'll see. I mean, the good thing is we both have good things going on in our lives. I mean, he obviously won wonderfully so. And so I've always wished him well and still do. Yeah. After this vote, though, we're going to see a lot of fallout between you and Ozzy. And you talked about how that this was anticipated.

[00:42:45] And you felt like that with Ozzy from South Pacific. He was going to come around. Yeah. Yeah. And I maintained that. And I think that was ultimately true. Like, I think that our ultimate falling out later in the game, I'm sure, was not helped by the fact that he left out of the Mike White vote. But I don't think it was a difference maker. I think once I'm coming for Ozzy, I don't think he's forgiving me. But, like, basically, I went on a 40-hour apology tour after that vote.

[00:43:14] Granted, knowing when he reacted the way he did, it wasn't just him being left out of a vote. I caught him. Like, in my opinion, I'm thinking jackpot. Jackpot. He's this mad because I took away an endgame option for him that he was hoping to keep tight and he didn't see it coming. And so he's trying to, in my opinion, punish me for taking that option away from him. Really, like, a lot of these other moves I could have made at that stage left me sort of at the mercy of, like, Ozzy and Mike and some other folks.

[00:43:43] And that took away that option from him. But I really went to a place where I really tried to bond with Ozzy over the course of the next, like, day and a half before the next tribal council. And really just tried to be in a patient place. Because the fight that happened after tribal council was, it was longer than was shown, is what I'll say. It was longer. I don't remember all the details of it. But it was intense. It was really intense.

[00:44:12] And I remember really trying to be patient and just listen to him. Tried to take him aside and not talk to him in front of camp, but know he wanted to have it out in front of camp, in front of everyone. And so I remember, like, I really had to go into a patient mode. But I was actually hitting my limits, though. Like, because by the time, like, 30-some-odd hours later, I feel like we're making progress. Emily Flippen, thank God, is reporting into me secretly what Ozzy is saying behind the scenes.

[00:44:39] So I'm getting his temperature, you know, after each of these conversations, which is helpful. So I'm trying to work on that. And I feel like we're in a better place. Then when he asked me for my shot in the dark, I'm like, I was like, I can't believe it. He wants my shot in the dark, too. The answer should have just been, yes, here it is. And, of course, I did give it to him eventually. But I was stunned. And I realized that this is what needs to happen for him to know that he's back in a position of power. That was my interpretation of what he needed.

[00:45:07] And I was happy to give him that if it got us through. Because, one, I wasn't really scared of going home at this vote, really. I mean, I'm always a little scared. But, like, what I knew that a merge was coming, I wanted to get our relationship in the best possible place before that merge. And sure enough, I mean, I caught no votes at the tribal council. I don't think I was in any actual danger. And from talking to people after the fact, people have told me that as well. But at the same time, I didn't want him pissed off going to the merge.

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[00:47:06] Because from opposite sides of where the game was, that it sort of like was mutually assured safety for you to be partnered with Jonathan. Yes, immediately. And I think that like, and that was my immediate reaction. And like, this is good for me. But one thing that like, but it was bad from a, like the fact that we had Emily and Rick spread out amongst pairs and obvious targets.

[00:47:34] And if I had a couple of like, and this is a continuation of a couple of doctrines that I had this season. One of which is I was being a lot more intentional of the people that I'm targeting at votes. Like, you know, like I can be flexible, of course. I was extremely flexible in my first game. But I want to be more intentional. Like, if it's between two people, there's a person who has these qualities, is less likely to work with me and blah, blah, blah, and she'd go home. But another one is that I will go to bat for you if you're my ally.

[00:48:04] If you're like, like my deep allies, I'll go to bat for. In my mind early on, that was Sari. I, you know, was, you know, certainly was looking out for her at the first vote when she was being targeted and make sure that was not going to happen. Not that it was the only one, to be clear. A lot of people were involved. I hope it's super clear. This is very collaborative. But also for Emily Flippen. Like, Emily, I want to bat for you. Like, I took, like, the Mike White vote was a real show of loyalty to her.

[00:48:30] And this was my opportunity to go to bat for Rick and Aubrey and to bring an Aubrey into the fold of people that I was, that they say, look, I mean it when I say that I'm your ally. Look what I did. And the reason I felt, and as much as I wanted to stay under the radar for the merge, the fact that I was safe, quote unquote, by being with Jonathan meant I had to do a lot of work. It was not stuff that was shown on television.

[00:48:57] But with Seri gone, she was off on some exile island. I didn't have her to help move the vote off of Aubrey and Rick. We didn't know she was coming back. We had no clue. We thought she was going to go on the whole night. If I knew she was coming back, I would have laid luck. Instead, I really went to work trying to move the vote. I'm not saying I did move the vote. Seri was certainly critical in that. You called her the cavalry. She was the cavalry. It's like, okay, this is going to happen now. It was getting a little dicey.

[00:49:26] I think that Ozzy and these people, they're thinking like Rick and Aubrey. And I was like, we got to work. And I think that we're making pitches. But at this point, Jonathan was looping me in on the vote. He was saying, oh, here are the people that I can see targeting. And he listed everyone except Coach and Chrissy. And I'm like, oh, okay. So clearly, I can't include him on any Coach and Chrissy targeting because he will absolutely blow up that spot. That's obvious. Meanwhile, the first names, I told Jonathan this afterwards.

[00:49:56] I was like that. The first names I throw out, it's actually kind of a tell. They're probably my allies. I threw out like, oh, I'm going to be okay with Rick and Aubrey. I'd be okay with getting rid of Emily and Rizzo. Because if they hear I say that, they know it's a lie. You know, and so it was clear to me that Jonathan needs to be left out of this vote. And he cannot know because he will tip them off. And also, I need to have some leverage to help slip the vote. And I'm not saying this, to be clear, I'm not saying this is what flipped the vote. This is just my perspective.

[00:50:24] Like Chrissy was telling me all the plans, which was great for me in the sense that, in theory, I wanted to work with Chrissy. But now she's a target. Like almost by process of elimination, her coach had to be a target here for me. And so she was telling me about potentially voting out, about voting out Rizzo and Emily, but leaving Ozzy out of the vote. And I remember thinking, you know what? Ozzy loves being left out of the vote. I'm sure he would love to hear this information. So I went up to Ozzy. I said, Ozzy, I just want to let you know. I know you're still deciding here.

[00:50:54] Chrissy wants to leave you out of this vote. So I'm just like, and like, I think at that point, Sri was already back. So I'm not saying that this was any kind of difference maker. But like, that's the kind of stuff I was doing. I was burning some bridges to get rid of Coach and Chrissy, but it also burned bridges with Jonathan. And I felt I needed to do this because there weren't enough people pushing to save Aubrey and Rick. And so I really put myself out there. And then, yeah.

[00:51:20] And shortly before Tribal, right as I come back from a confessional, I'm like, okay, we'll see how this goes. We'll see if anyone leaks. Someone's going to leak. Certainly, like, then Jonathan comes up to me and says, Christian, I heard that the vote is now coaching Chrissy. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about, Jonathan. I don't know. Like swearing up now. I don't know. And I was like, who's leaking? Who's leaking? Turns out it was, I believe, Ozzy and Sari leaked. Yeah. And I only knew about the time of Ozzy. And so I'm like, dang it. Dang it. This place, like, you're trying to, what's the deal here?

[00:51:50] Are you trying to blow up the plan? Are you trying to get rid of Rick and Aubrey? What's the plan here? And at tribal council, this, like, Jonathan starts doing a live tribal really early in the tribal council because he wants to know what's going on. It's already on Haywire. Yeah. Okay. And that precipitates Rick going to take out the fake idol. It seems like coming out of this vote, though, a lot of people are frustrated with you and Rick in particular. Well, I mean, Jonathan was frustrated with me. I mean, it's just remind me of the edit.

[00:52:20] I haven't rewatched my boot episode. I only watched it the one time. I only take so much. But Jonathan, I understood. But at the same time, I'm like, I didn't know. I mean, certainly, and Joe was frustrated with Rick. But, like, I didn't say at that point, like, I mean, the people who would have been most frustrated are the people who were part of Jonathan's sort of mega alliance. That was one of the big concerns. Mega alliance. It's like this. I mean, like, like people call it the Zoom alliance.

[00:52:47] I think even in the real time, we're talking people calling it the Zoom alliance on the island. And it appeared to be, like, a lot of old school thinkers. Kind of like, I don't know. I don't have a strong opinion on how pregame this was. I don't really care. But, like, it's people like Jonathan, Stephanie, Joe, Chrissy and Sari. Like, that's a strong five, right? Sorry, sorry, Chrissy. Sorry, Chrissy. Chrissy and Coach. I apologize. Not Sari. Chrissy and Coach.

[00:53:15] Although we didn't know how much Ozzy and Sari would side with them if necessary. We didn't know. There were some ties there. So, it was really, it was the people left over from that who would have the most caused to be mad. Really, you're talking Jonathan, Joe, and Steph. I didn't like that collateral damage. But I felt it was necessary to not lose two people. And, frankly, not give this big alliance, you know, five, maybe six people with only 11 people left in the game.

[00:53:46] And that was dangerous. And that's something that Emily Flippen pointed out was super dangerous. So, yes, there was collateral damage. So, tell me about what was going on in what ultimately ends up being this final round of the game for you. Yeah. So, it was a rare two-day cycle, which I appreciated. I love it that when there's a two-day cycle after I've had to burn a couple bridges, I didn't expect that Jonathan would be back on my side.

[00:54:12] But I did best effort to make him believe that I believed he'd be back on my side, that we'd be back together. You know, in case that works out. It was very clear Stephanie and Joe were in a weird place. We kind of patched it up a little bit. But I think where I had all my worst ideas was like when I woke up on day 18. Like, I remember I woke up by the fire.

[00:54:41] I tended to sleep face down in the dirt by the fire. And I woke up and I was thinking, and I really stuck in my craw. I was like, Ozzy is clearly doing some kind of middle gameplay here. So, there's something going on in the middle. The way that that last vote was handled, there's something happening here. And Ozzy is somewhere in this group. And playing the middle is a bad thing. I don't want other people to play the middle. I want them out. And it was like, maybe Ozzy should be the target.

[00:55:09] And that's why I started pitching the idea of Ozzy. And that was just a bad idea for a number of reasons. I mean, Ozzy was not... Yes, he was in the middle. But he's not the type of player that made sense for me to eliminate at that stage. The people, my sort of doctrine were people that, one, had a lot of sway. And a lot of people that will move with them when they move in a direction. And I had a list of those folks. The last of whom was Serene.

[00:55:39] And she was the last one in the game. The other were people that could be taken... That were being maybe taken deep into the game. Because people perceived they weren't doing very much. Or perceived not to be threats. And I have emphasis on the perceived because one of those people was Rizzo. He was just perceived to be that way. He was doing a lot in watching the show. But one of the reasons he was being taken deep is because he was lying in the shelter. He was sick. He wasn't eating. And so it's like, okay. And coincidentally, those are two of the other people. I didn't know this.

[00:56:09] They were part of this actual middle. So if I had gone by my original doctrine, it would have pointed me in one of those two directions. Now, getting them out how that would work would have been challenging. I shouldn't have been the one. I definitely shouldn't be the one pitching it. Right? I needed other people to pitch. I mean, I don't think that Serene was pitching my name. I don't think that Ozzy was pitching my name at this point until I threw out their name. And that really... That's when things started boomerang on me as opposed to being just some vote that wasn't. Mm-hmm.

[00:56:39] Okay. You are feeling that maybe things are going in a negative direction. You come out of the challenge where Jeff has participated and you are vulnerable for the vote. And they're looking for somebody to go on a journey. Yes. So my thinking was I wanted... And I'm still fixated on Ozzy being this middle person.

[00:57:05] And then if he's playing the middle, he's an enemy to multiple sides and we can mobilize votes on it. It was all misguided based upon the fact that I already told Serene. But my thinking is in which place I don't want him having the advantage. Like even if I went and didn't get the advantage, that's fine. He doesn't get it. And even if I got it, if it's something I didn't want, I could throw it into the fire. Like if I was like, look, I got the advantage. Dr. Mike. You know, throw it in the fire or something. I didn't know if I would do that. But that was on the table. The point was to keep it away from Ozzy.

[00:57:34] But I think that my principal mistake this round is I did not need to be the person doing these things. Like I think I was coming off of this last vote where I felt like, yes, I have to be the person doing this. I'm the one that's safe from the Jonathan vote. I have to protect my allies. I have to go to bat for them to show that they, to make, to show that they, I'm loyal to them. And I will keep looking out for them. I didn't have to be the one who did. So really that's like day 18 is like where all like my bad ideas, like really sort of kind of consolidate, you know. All right.

[00:58:01] You go to the floating barge and you are going to be doing this puzzle. I have to think you're you. You have done, you know, some famously done some puzzles great in the past on Survivor. Were you confident when you approached this puzzle? Well, I mean, I wasn't. And mostly because it's a type of puzzle, right?

[00:58:30] I mean, like puzzles that I'm really good at are ones where there are sequences of moves that you need to do. Like slide puzzles, a classic example of that. Like, like that's sort of, it's very amenable to optimization techniques and really sequences and patterns. Also, like even an opening challenge, the opening reward challenge, there was like a puzzle where you had to move these oars back and forth to maneuver the things. Exactly. It's like that, that, that, I get that. Like, oh yeah, I can come up with some kind of backward strategy that's counterintuitively kind of good. Right. Underrated.

[00:59:00] Great moment. I mean, you just like put all the things to the left and then, and then went through it. Yeah. That was, I was proud of it. Yeah. I was like, I'm loving it. But, but, but, but, but jigsaw puzzles, I are, I, I don't love because really just got to kind of grind them out to find the pattern. Okay. Does that fit? Does that fit? That's very different skills that I'm not particularly great at those. I'm not even very good at them. But I went thinking it wouldn't be one of those because they've done so many on the season. I was like, they've had so many of these jigsaw puzzles of the survivor logo. They've got to do something different.

[00:59:29] So I was thinking, it might be a puzzle a la what Rachel, what Rachel did on season 47. That's a secret puzzle. Oh yeah. That's, that's right. My alley. Or I thought this is season 50, Rob. Where's the survivor trivia? Where's the hunter survivor trivia channel? I'm like this. I'm thinking like, that's what it's going to do. Then I pull up and I could see enough of the things like, oh, it's a jigsaw puzzle. Like, okay, don't panic, but try to work through it. So, but no, I was not confident.

[00:59:54] And when I read the note and I saw what it was for, I was like, there's not a great advantage. I'm not sure exactly what I can do with this. This is kind of a cross, this is kind of a somewhere between an extra vote and a bank of vote kind of. I'm not sure what I can use this for. And if I win it, I have to throw it a vote in the urn, which I'm guessing would have been for Ozzy just because I wouldn't have known who the target was. I was like, so anyway, so I do the, so I'm not confident going into the puzzle.

[01:00:22] I think in the end, actually watching it back, I was, I was more closer than I remembered being. It felt like it was so far away, but there's only a handful, like four pieces left. And that point, you know, those puzzles become easier at the end. So if I hadn't gotten stuck in the middle of the puzzle, I feel like that I actually could have done that. And this is kind of frustrating. Yeah. Is the issue that, because the words are on both sides, is that, is that what the real challenge is? It's like there's two ways that each piece could go. That, that's, that's true. Yes.

[01:00:51] And that is true of all survivor puzzle challenges. I mean, I never went and bought survivor puzzles to practice. I, I, I, call that, call that arrogance, call that, you know, I just like, I felt like that's not what survivor is about. It's over preparing for a particular puzzle, but really. We're not buying some motion on Etsy. Apparently it is. Apparently it is. And this is maybe something that like, I, I, I would really just like, if I could redo anything in my pregame challenge, just buy this, buy this stuff on Etsy. Just buy it on Etsy.

[01:01:21] You know, junk up your house or whatever you have in it. You have in your house. I mean, so I'm sorry, your sellers, sellers out there, you know, I hope you make a lot of money. Everyone go out and buy these things. I mean, that's what I mean to say. But the, the, but the double-sided puzzle jigsaw, that's different than the kind of jigsaw puzzle you do at home. Yeah. So you really specifically try and try to do those. All right. And so you get this letter from Jimmy Fallon and you don't even know what it's going to be in your wildest dreams. Could you have imagined what it was going to say? Absolutely not.

[01:01:50] Like, I mean, I, I, I, it was foreboding and it's like, it's like, it's not going to be good for you. But in my head, I'm still thinking like, you'll lose your vote. Right. Um, like, cause that's what typically happens on a journey. What could be worse? Like, like, what would they do that was worse than that as a result of like not doing a journey correctly? It was really bad. It's just like, and like, um, and I, I, so I had no idea it was going to be that bad. I think that I was, I was still kind of just on the way at home.

[01:02:19] I was just processing, oh man, it sucks. I had to lose that puzzle. It sucks. Um, on the way home from the puzzle, the way home from Fiji, the way from puzzle. I apologize. Yes. On the way back to my, you know, the, my home, the tribal home. Um, yeah. So I really should have been thinking, what could this thing be? And, but I don't think I've ever thought that. Have you ever given a thought about, is there any way that you could have played this differently knowing what it was when you have one in the urn? Is there a way that you could have made this work for you?

[01:02:49] Yes. Um, the, I mean, it would be to bluff about what the actual advantage was. Cause a lot of people wouldn't already believe that I, uh, have to actually vote for myself. Like there are some people who are skeptical of whether this is actually a thing. And I could, and I could also play it off as like, this is a double-edged sword kind of, this is a double-edged sword advantage. I come with an idol as well. Right. I can tell the wrong person about the fact that I have an idol. Right. And so, and, and, and so I think if I knew, if I, and the piece, and again, the, the,

[01:03:19] the clues were there that I was going to be blindsided post community challenge. Um, I think I talked about them in our exit interview, so I won't rehash them here, but like the, so it was possible to know at that point that Sari had flipped. So I could have said Sari is like, Sari, I, I, you know, I, I also have an idol and now they probably would have split the votes, but if they, we know they're splitting the votes, we could pull an operation Italy type situation where you exploit the split vote to get a majority.

[01:03:46] Uh, I mean, I haven't thought about all the details of that cause I hadn't, it's a little painful to relive that, that, that end of that experience, but that's what comes to mind. So let me ask you about, you went to go to, you talked to Jimmy Fallon about this. Did you feel like that was, did Jimmy Fallon really feel bad about what he did? I think that Jimmy Fallon doesn't get much thought to it. He's got, it's like a year ago that this happened.

[01:04:13] I mean, I mean, my, we were, he was super friendly. I mean, I think that, uh, you know, I think that a lot of these celebrities, they were approached like, Hey, you want to do a thing? And they're like, Oh yeah, let's do this thing. They might even pitch on what these things are. Right. Um, and like, I don't, I don't even like blame the guy. Cause like, I mean, he's not a game designer, like by, he's not like a professional, he's not like making blood on the clock tower in his free time. Maybe he is not the, not the stereotype of Jimmy. So I don't like that. He's a great inventor. Is that a thing? Yeah.

[01:04:39] I think that from what I hear, I hear he likes to, he likes to come up with ideas and inventions. Oh, that's cool. I mean, like he's a creative guy, but like the impact of a, of a, of a new twist on a game is very hard to predict. I mean, this was a particularly bad one. Uh, but like, uh, effect on the game, but like, I mean, I don't, I mean, he's living his life. He's, he's, he's talking to three celebrities a night. And so like, I was just really just tickled to be there. I mean, like I, I, I got voted on a survivor, something that is overwhelmingly likely to

[01:05:08] happen when you play a season of survivor. But by the end of it, I'm jumping on Jimmy Fallon to talk about it. And I even get to talk about the fact that I'm a robotics professor on Jimmy Fallon. And like, this is insane. This is, I, I, Rob, this wasn't even supposed to happen. This wasn't, I was not even supposed to be on Jimmy Fallon. I'm not sure if this is publicly known, but like, like, um, they were going to have, like, I was, I went to New York for the, for the exit press. I was there for CBS mornings, which was fun. I got to meet Gail King. Sure.

[01:05:37] She's, she's, she's, she's a formidable interviewer. Um, and, um, as you know, you, as you matter. And, um, and see, and, uh, and I, I was told that, yeah, Jimmy Fallon, you know, he's, unfortunately he's all booked for guests. You know, we explored the idea. It's not going to work, you know, but he will, he'll do a TikTok with you. He'll do something like, you know, pop back backstage or something that will do a TikTok. That's great. Look, I, I'm not, you know, I'm not entitled to any of this. Like I'm just a guy on a, on, on, on a reality show and I'm doing my exit press with like

[01:06:06] you and others like on that day, like in around noon. And then like CBS person pops in my ear during my interviews, like Christian, you're going to be on Fallon. I'm like, Oh my God. Like it's like this, it just happened. And it was more or less told to me from the producers when we were doing our pre-interviews that it was in the hands of the fans. The fans went on Jimmy Fallon's socials to such a degree to let their displeasure with the twist be known that they felt obligated to put me on the show.

[01:06:36] I, they didn't say those exact words, but that's me retweeting between the lines. So, so thank you fans. Thank you fans for making that happen. They, they, they, they, they, they bumped Joel Egerton, Taron Egerton, Taron Egerton, the, of the Kingsman movies. It seems like my wife was texting me to, he's good. Maybe I have another celebrity enemy in him now. Cause I, cause they, they bumped him for Christian Ubicki. Apparently. I mean, like, like according, he was on the website.

[01:07:02] If you can forgive Jimmy Fallon, then I think that Taron Egerton can forgive you. Okay. Well, good. I'm glad. I hope that that, that that's the case. So it was bananas. And then no sooner than that, I hear like, Hey, Rizzo's in town. Can he come? I'm like, sure. Rizzo can come. Rizzo was backstage with me at the Jimmy Fallon. Oh, nice. So it was wild. Oh yeah. He, so, so he, and he was like, and he was so appreciative of like, oh, thanks for letting me come. It's like, of course, what am I gonna do? Not let you come to Jimmy Fallon. And it's like, what can I do?

[01:07:28] I was like, Rizzo document this, document everything. So he's got his phone. He's taking photos and Jimmy, he's good at that. It's like, so he's really helpful. And in fact, when Jimmy Fallon was, was crossed in the green room to go to do his monologue, I'm on the phone with my wife, Emily, and she was a big fan of Jimmy Fallon for many years. And, um, and, um, and, and I said, Hey, Jimmy, can you talk to, talk to my wife? And he, and he gets on the phone with my wife and he's like, I am so sorry.

[01:07:56] And he kind of goes off with this very long apology. And I have it all on film. Thanks to Rizzo. Nice job, Riz God. Okay. Christian, um, this was such a delight and I know you have a lot of cool stuff that you are working on. Can you tease at all any other things that you have coming up? Well, well, well, first off, just, I would say keep an eye on me on, on Instagram, especially at Hubicki, C-H-U-B-I-C-K-I. I'm doing a lot of science related content.

[01:08:23] Uh, it's, it's, it's, I've always wanted to get involved in this space and the reaction so far, what I've been putting out there has been really positive. So, so keep an eye on there and you can find more about what I'm doing at ChristianUbicki.com or on my links on my socials. All right, Christian, what a delight it was, of course, today to watch you in season 50. Congratulations on all the success and looking forward to the many, many future conversations as well, where I'm sure we've only scratched the surface of your Survivor 50 anecdotes.

[01:08:53] Well, thank you very much for having me. It was a delight. Uh, regardless, we'll, hopefully we'll, you still want me around. So I'm glad to hear it. Yes, always. Thank you so much. Take care everybody. Have a good one. Bye. Have no fear. Chosen Foods is here to defend your favorite foods from the forces of seedy oils and sketchy

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